Thanks. I feel better. The part about everyone looking at the same charts from their own point of view - that explains a lot. To expand the chess analogy... White's game looks different from Black's point of view. Off to a movie with the better third.

Watts Griffis McQuat released their calculation of gold resource ( equivalents ) at a 1.0 g/t cut off 4.0 mill oz gold and at a 1.5 g/t cut off 3.80 mill oz gold. This covers only about 20% of Mt. Kare possible targets. The resource calculation is from a total of 109 holes - - they have now completed 130 holes with results awaited.

Madison's announcement is at http://www.madison-enterprises.com/news/nr-981126.htm

As always.... remember, this is a junior and so they are a long way from the goal line. But very interesting never the less.

Then the contrarian view saying that gold looks like it's put in a bottom.

Then we talk about yields of 4.x percent in the same breath as Returns of 17.x percent this year, and I'm honestly confused. Mix this with the fact that we know ( don't we? ) that gold is a manipulated price, then what, pray tell does the POG tell us about anything?

I understand your explanation that Japan has not opened the kimono on the banking situation yet, AND MAY NEVER!, and that future rate cuts on the USD are imminent, for whatever reason, liquidity, bond market, etc, keeping the UDS strong relative to JPY. Lets say Japan said, OK here's the sad story we are upside down x The market factors that in, and life moves on. Do JPY start flowing back to Japan then? If USD rate is getting lower, then the yen carry trade is out of business, no? ( Borrow Yen, buy USD, use interest on USD to pay JPY interest, put rest in pocket, repeat )

It's too much really for me to try to understand in a direct causal manner, like you do x and y happens. My understanding of these issues is like playing chess. There are certain Threats, and influences apparent by a certain move, but there is another player with another mind in the game. More like driving a boat instead of a train. Anyway, I'm trying to understand the forces at play here, even in isolation, and it's a bit daunting.

On the other hand, I see little evidence of saving in the US with the exception of real estate and retirement - 403b, 401k,IRA accounts. Few people keep their money in banks these days to earn 1% interest. No tax advantage by keeping cash in the bank.

So -- perhaps the data is skewed. The measurements may not be focused on the right source of info.

I am looking forward to Harry Dent's prediction of a US spending wave, peaking around 2010. Problem is -- we have to get over the hurdle of the next two years or so without a world-wide financial collapse.

It is exciting to be in the middle of the information revolution -- something that rivals the industrial revolution. I think we will have a little winnowing out near y2k.

http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/NumRel/LIGO.html#LaserInterfere

Let's look at it from a different POV...that of gold as equalizer. Gold is gold is gold. There might be some politicialness to it when stamped or cast in a form, but when remelted and restamped, is is apolitical again. If any bloc, religious ( Muslim for example ) or national ( gee, pick your favorite gold-loving country, say Russia ) were to say, We're tired of being manipulated by people with printing presses, and we'd like to have honest money, an honest store of value, and we believe that gold, for all the reasons given throughout history will accomplish this for us, and we are going to use gold for currency only in our country ( bloc ) , then 1 ) Would it be possible? 2 ) How much gold would it use up to have Russia go 100% Gold backed. IE: Paper notes REDEEMABLE for fixed weight of gold. If there is not enough gold for the whole world to go this way, then how many countries could? I see references to All the gold mined in the history of the world would only fill a cube 66 feet on a side. You;d think, as long as I've heard that, that it would be at least 67 feet by now. :- ) The only thing I see wrong with the current gold situation, is that gold is not being allowed to be what it is...money. From your esoteric standpoint, if something is not allowed to be what it is, the pressure buildup for change is incredible.

You mention working together. I think, that people, put in a room with each other will tend to get along. I also think that national and religious division accomplish 2 opposite goals... 1 ) They *expand* the feeling of identity to something larger than a ) myself b ) my family c ) my community to d ) My country. But, at the same time, they limit the further expansion to e ) my planet, or e ) my solar system. The NWO folks would just love to use that rationale to expand their agenda. The problem with the NWO is that the question who gets to control it?' is unanswered. Up until now, nation states have been a hedge against total one-world-control, and the limits, engendering fighting, and hate are the price to pay. But, one could argue, that the powers-behind-the-nations merely manipulate one against another for their own ends. I don't know what the reality is, but I don't have any difficulty in imagining 1 ) That it ALL is controlled or that 2 ) No one could possibly control it. Put me down as undecided.

Further, you ask Do you think you could get agreement from any two Islamic banking groups any more than you can get agreement from any two or more other groups of people with their own vested interests. OPEC ! European Union, APEC etc.

No, I think you are right. However, if gold is gold is gold, do I really care if some Dubai banker decides to charge a fee instead of interest ( Interest being against the teaching of Islam as I understand it ) , the world will still turn. The question is, can I get gold?

@Nick: Kero Fridge with Fiberglass walls, man. Uncontrolled fire is just plain dangerous.

Part 3: With the same speed and in reverse the bubble will collapse in effect shrinking the ( credit ) money supply much faster than the fed can inject liquidity into the system. The amazing falling collateral values and the amazing evaporating credit hits those who have become accustomed to depend on it. The general liquidation and distress.

To what hights will they rise? The answer is: zero.

I was actually quite suprised by his remark. I suspect he really is in the gold rope, gold jewelry business, but not too much into coins, even though his sign for coins was 18 high. Either he really wasn't in the business, or got caught short. Just an isolated report, but it raises some curiosity. Think I'll stop in some other stores to check 'em out.

http://seweb2.phillips66.com/hes/msds.nsf/

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#2 fuel oil is regular diesel fuel. It may or may not contain additives for motor diesel use. Also known as heating oil. There is no difference really, except it is labelled as Heating Oil to be taxed differently ( In my understanding ) .

#1 fuel oil is used to cut #2 diesel for cold-weather use. Typical cuts are between 10% and 35%.

#1 will burn cleaner than #2.

To those heating with wood. Take the time to learn about safety. I heated with wood for years ( sole source of heat ) . Neighbors house burned to the ground. He, his wife and baby escaped the wall of fire at the front door by going through the broken bedroom window in 5 feet of snow, and -20 F weather. The fire department arrived, set up shop, and the pump broke in the extreme temperature. They stayed at our house, crying all night. He had put a paper bag full of coals that had been cold three days on a wooden porch.

Please, take the time to learn what you are doing. Stories like this are not rare around places where wood is used for heat.

Since the board is so very quiet, some golden information

Horsepower rating in vehicles is a bit like power output in home stereo equipment. As many here will understand, a close examination of a claim of 200 Watts of audio power for an amplifier turns out to actually be the sum of 100 Watts for each of two channels and even that rating turns out to be music power or some similar rubbish rating. The real, continuos duty, r.m.s. power will probably turn out to be more like 30 Watts a channel.

In the same way, a horsepower is not a horsepower. Horsepower ( kW ) marked on the plate by a mainline manufacturer on an alternator tells the truth. At the other end of the spectrum is the horsepower rating of an automobile engine. /That/ horsepower is not the truth. A 200 hp automotive engine operated at 200 hp continuous duty would die. Promptly.

( This is the same beginner's mistake that is made with marine engines, by the way. A chap looking over engines to be installed in his new pleasure boat sees that what is being sold for marine use is unbelievably big, clunky and expensive. It puts out very small horsepower, too. Because of his vast experience gained in tinkering with automotive engines when he was a youth, he realizes that all he has to do is to install an automotive engine with a marine manifold. He can have four times the horsepower and in a smaller, lighter package and, boy oh boy, will it be cheap compared to what these marine engine builders are charging. )

The truth here is that vehicle engines, with some exceptions, are not rated for continuous duty but that is what an alternator will demand at times and always, if charging a battery bank ( and what is required hour after hour in a vessel at cruising speed ) . In the marine business, a vehicle gasoline engine is routinely derated to a third of its supposed output by fellows who know the realities but even then they are not expected to last. Automotive engines used in marine applications are cheap so it doesn't matter much so long as care is taken to change them out frequently or to do rebuilds frequently.

Another factor here is the specific fuel consumption of the engine. What seems to be of interest is long term use and consideration should be given to this matter. An engine running at the upper limit of its rating might not be such a bargain in the end if fuel consumption per kW generated is considered over a long term. Hours between rebuilds might be a factor in such a long term operation, too. The saving realized by being able to run, say, twice as many hours between teardowns might pay for an engine a third larger in output and, at the same time, an engine more economical of fuel in the proposed service.

Now let's all hope for a rejigging of monetary relationships over the Christmas holidays. That would the next logical time to make a quantum change. Not only will there be holidays to distract the plebeians but the ECU is coming on line to excuse or explain whatever it is that happens.

I think of you now, and then, and hope that your treatment will cure you.