Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:55
Mtn Bear (SE) (Market Comment) ID#347267:: FWIW department: C Hooper of the Mutual Fund Strategist issued a sell signal for Monday August 3, 1998. This means sell Nova ( not buy Ursa yet ) . He uses Rydex Nova Fund and Rydex Ursa as his market timing vehcles. He kinda messed up on the last signal, as was short ( Rydex Ursa ) , but went long during the last rally. Nevertheless, ahead 'bout 10% for the year right now. Better'n a lot of funds at this point! ( BTW- Gold has been a sell for a while )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:43
Mole (@6pak) ID#34883:: If it wasn't for the peaceful cooperation of the division of labor and private propterty rights ( that includes your person ) you would not be alive today. You stupid half indian, when are you gonna wake up?

Foolish of me to venture any hope. Planet of the apes, Mad Max, here we go....victims, all victims...thats what we are!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:43
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (ASIA DROWNING TONIGHT IN RED INK!) ID#431263:: Led by HK, Malaysia and the Philippines all down about 4%!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:43
Squirrel (Tolerant1 - THANK YOU and Namaste') ID#280214:: I fear to contemplate what Klinton would have done by now
if it wasn't for the Internet acting as a sleuth and repository
of evidence of his traitorous activities. Once published on the Net - so many will download the evidence that it will never again be lost.
Thank God for resources such as this.
Your post of 23:00 is should not be missed thus I repost your url
http://www.ruddynews.com/index.shtml
AND the url of top of Ron Brown's head ( long time to load but worth it )
http://www.ruddynews.com/photo6.html

Skinny - of course the government would take note
if you brought in over maybe US$1000 to exchange for the new script.
They may confiscate it - by giving you a IOU {Treasury Bond} for it.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:41
sam__A (@Jetsilver re your 23:09 - Listening to Marty Armstrong?) ID#286253:: Sorry - he is calling for 3 buck silver. And he does so with scant mention to supply shortfalls. And he does so with scant mention of the silver carry trade. And when the market turns against him, he sues. I am sorry, but the guy is a fool. He and his disciples deserve everything that's coming.

sam_A.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:36
Auric (Panda) ID#255151:: Isn't it something how resilient Clinton is. Just like the DJIA. Both are accidents long overdue. This is beginning to look like a cartoon, with Clinton and the DJIA walking off a cliff. They keep walking on air because they don't yet realize they have stepped off the cliff. I am awaiting the epiphany, when they they get the look that says, Oh Shi...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:35
Mtn Bear (SE) (Washington Post (On-Line) Y2k Series) ID#347267:: W. Post has the first of 3 articles on Y2k status. Must read for any who take this problem in the least seriously, and must read for those who don't!!!
URL: http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-08/02/184l-080298-idx.html
The first rticle is specifically about Freddie Mac. Excerpt:
As of June 30, only 85 of the 500 largest publicly traded U.S. companies had heeded an SEC recommendation to disclose estimated Y2K costs. Those that did, however, said they have spent only 25 percent of the money they've budgeted for the problem.
That's scary, said Steven L. Hock, the president of Missoula, Mont.-based Triaxsys, which has analyzed the disclosures. Spending is supposed to keep pace with the repair work. That means many of these guys are still only a quarter of the way there.
The numbers are similarly sobering for the federal government: Only 40 percent of its 7,336 mission critical systems have been fully repaired; still remaining to be fixed are many that control air traffic, process income-tax returns and handle Medicare payments.
More than four in 10 U.S. companies, according to one survey, already have encountered Y2K-related system failures. Computers at Unum Life Insurance Co. of America in 1995 automatically deleted 700 records from a database that tracks the licensing status of brokers because a program interpreted some of the expiration dates as 1900. When Phillips Petroleum Co. ran a Y2K test on an oil rig in the North Sea, a safety system to detect emissions of deadly hydrogen sulfide gas shut down. And last year, when Chrysler Corp. turned clocks forward at one of its assembly plants to simulate the year 2000, the security system failed,
preventing people from leaving the building.
Among the companies already reporting to the SEC, some staggering repair bills are anticipated. For example, General Motors Corp., the nation's largest company, expects to spend $565 million. The expenses are forecast to reach $500 million at Philip Morris Cos., $600 million at Citicorp, and $400 million at MCI Communications Corp. At the same time, those firms and others say they are on track to have the problem licked before December 1999.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:33
6pak (USofA Corporate Agenda @ Joe sixpack/Citizen/Taxpayer, Must serve the Power's to be?) ID#335190:: August 2, 1998

Productivity called answer to labor-management conflict

DETROIT ( CP ) -- If resolution of the General Motors strike is to have long-term benefits for both company and union, it will require a new level of creativity and co-operation in labor relations.

GM's priority is to reduce costs, and it cannot hide the reality that cost-cutting is most directly accomplished by closing inefficient plants and moving production to lower-wage areas such as Mexico.

The assignment is a difficult one: unions seek the most for their workers; businesses seek the most for their investment dollar. And while they are not opposites, the two goals do not squarely meet.

The local savings and loan associations resisted being swamped by larger institutions. The pharmacy and grocer hold out against the chains, the department stores against the discounters, the small farmer against the corporate behemoth.

Neither will attain the ultimate; each must give a bit, recognize the realities, acknowledge their mutual obligations and accept results that are less than satisfactory.
http://www.freecartoons.com/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.GM-Labor-Relations.html

NOTE:
As the young men of World War I died many thought they were dying for a great ideal. It was only after it was all over that an increasingly large number of people came to the realization that the 10,000,000 had died for the private profit of monopoly -- as a result of the conflict between two great groups of competing imperialists. Some 20,000 new millionaires in the United States alone came into being from the 10,000,000 dead.

Before American entry into the war on April 6,1917 ( World War I declared July 28 1914 ) , President Wilson told Walter Hines Page, according to this pro-war American ambassador to Britain, that there was little to choose between the belligerents, that the cause of war was that England owned the earth and Germany wanted it

President Wilson, the conflict as a war of commercial powers over the spoils of empire.

In 1891 the Colored Farmers' National Alliance and Cooperative Union had 1,250,000 members and state organizations in twelve states.

Every state was developing dynamic leaders, many of them women. One of them was Mrs Mary Elizabeth Lease, a native of Ireland and the mother of four children, who told the insurgent Kansas farmers: Wall Street owns the country. It is no longer a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, but a government of Wall Street, by Wall Street, and for Wall Street. The great common people of the country are slaves and monopoly is the master .... Money rules ... The common people are robbed to enrich their masters ... The people are at bay. Let the bloodhounds of money who have dogged us thus far beware

1998: USofA President is being investigated. BIG DEAL. 1891 & 1917 many fought back, the power's to be exist today, as they existed before.

Mushrooms-R-Us Be quiet...Consume...And die

Take Care.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:33
skinny (Panda) ID#287114:: So one day uncle sam says were going to have different coloured money like the rest of the world.
Uncle sam says, after the year 1999 your old cash is no good, you bring in the old money and we will give you new.
Then uncle sam says were did you get this'
Buy Gold now.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:30
Mole (Step up to the Plate) ID#34883:: Read 'Ludwig von Mises' Socialism.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:28
Isure (@ George) ID#421269:: Are you invested in the Dow ,or gold stocks, or both? This is none of my business but am curious as to your views.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:28
panda (ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.) ID#30116:: Good night all. Tomorrow is another day. Globex looks ill. Globex sentiment around 8:30a ESDT should give a better clue...... :- ) )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:25
panda (Auric) ID#30116:: I've heard that to. One thing I can speak to though, is that we have non-outcome based drivers in this state. They can't drive a motor vehicle worth a damn around here. Everyone thinks that they have the right-of-way all of the time. It does make for some pretty interesting accidents though...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:24
George__A (High Rise) ID#433172:: Being manipulted by the press works both ways. I just can't dance the Goldberg-Tripp-Monica three step.

Bring on the evidence of malfisance. Omit all references to sex whether who lied or whatever, almost everybody has lied about sex I think. MOst people don't care obviously, not out of loyalty, out of our tradition of minding our own business mostly. I hope they hang him high, but only for the right reasons, and proof.

I have enjoyed your posts over the past few months, I am always surprised when intelligent people disagree with me, it has happened before.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:24
Squirrel (George - you and many others labor under a misperception) ID#280214:: Impeachment is NOT the removal of a President.
It is only the process of TRIAL.
Just as with any other judiciary proceeding, proof is not necessary to open the trial - that is what the TRIAL is intended to find.
We need only enough justification to bring the investigation onto the floor of the House of Representatives or their Judiciary Committee.
1 ) The House Judiciary Committee opens hearings and drafts Articles of Impeachment
2 ) The House of Representatives passes on those Articles of Impeachment
3 ) The Senate, presided over by the Chief Justice, commences a trial to here evidence and arguments from all parties concerned.
4 ) Conviction requires two-thirds of the Senators present.

For more info:
http://www.impeachment.org/html/about_impeach.htm

The Constitution dictates that:

The sole power of impeachment resides in the House of Representatives. That is, the House has the responsibility to bring charges, investigate them, then vote for removal from office by a simple majority vote.

The Senate is granted the sole power to try all impeachments and may remove an impeached official with the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.

When the President is tried, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court will preside.

What this means in practice is that the House Judiciary Committee or a special committee designated by the House draws up Articles of Impeachment listing the offense ( s ) for which the accused is to be impeached. If the House obtains a simple majority vote in favor of a resolution of impeachment, the President or other official in question is impeached. The impeachment must then be sent to the Senate for trial.
Selected members of the House and their counsel, acting as prosecutors, present the evidence against the impeached official. When that official is the President, the Constitution specifies that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court shall preside and that a two-thirds vote of the members present is needed for conviction and expulsion from office.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:23
sam__A (@ All - Further thoughts on AG's Let's Rig the Gold Market Speech.) ID#286253:: In response to concerns of the dangers of over-the-counter ( OTC ) derivatives market, Alan Greenspan recently addressed congress to offer the Fed's opinion as to whether or not these markets required federal oversight and control. Full speech was posted here on July 31, ~18:05.

In recent months, there has been much scare talk of the derivatives markets. Horror stories abound ( Orange county, etc. ) and people wonder if a kid in red suspenders might bring down the system. So Congress wants to know: Should we be regulating this thing? Should the Federal Gov't apply the same rules to the OTC market as they do to the already-regulated exchanges ( COMEX, CBOT, etc. ) ?

Greenspan wades in. No, he says, the OTC derivatives trade does _not_ need to be regulated. Why? Because federal law as applied to the regulated exchanges was enacted to prevent attempts at cornering agricultural derivatives. Way back when, the Ag markets suffered considerable turbulence due to repeated attempts to, say, corner the bean market. The Feds stepped in and put a stop to this.

But we don't need to do this with the OTC market, he goes on, because unlike the Ag markets, the OTC trade deals in derivatives whose underlying markets are of infinite liquidity. You can't corner the bond market, because the Treasury can just create more bonds. You can't corner a currency market, because currency can be printed. If you will, these are ephemeral markets, markets where those on the wrong side of a deteriorating position can be assured that the liquidity needed to cover will always be there. If God will deliver, why should Congress worry?

Two noted exceptions were the oil trade and the gold trade. These markets are of finite liquidity and quite distinctly so. AG first addresses the oil trade and says, essentially, that supply-to-market is near impossible to control and that this has been well evidenced by recent OPEC failures. We would tend to agree. Oil supply is highly elastic; transport and storage costs ( the carry costs ) are considerable. Not the kind of thing you'd take a run at. You can't print oil, but you can turn taps.

Which brings us to the OTC gold trade. Unlike oil, gold ( production ) supply is highly _inelastic_. Unlike oil, gold carry costs are low. But unlike oil, there is a gold inventory. And this is the hook AG uses to allay concern. To quote:

Nor can private counterparties restrict supplies of gold, another commodity whose derivatives are often traded over-the-counter, where central banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities should the price rise.

We will resist the temptation to conclude that Central Banks are rigging the gold market and concede that Greenspan _meant_ to say ... should the price rise _sharply_; ( mind you, that's not what he said. ) This aside, where there remains no ambiguity is Greenspan's use of the word lease, as in central banks stand ready to _lease_ gold ... should the price rise. i.e., Not sell gold, but lease gold. This is remarkable for two reasons.

Firstly, it appears that central banks, despite the years of bad-mouthing, like gold after all. Even in a time of crisis, the implication seems to be, central banks would not sell gold, they would not dump. They'd lease it instead. This in our minds stands as a strong affirmation of gold's role in the monetary system.

Secondly, leasing gold into a tightening market cannot defuse an impending crisis. To understand this, one must first understand the mechanics of the gold lease market: every ounce of gold leased is an ounce sold spot is an ounce added to the collective short position. So while leased gold may add some temporary liquidity to the market, it can only defer and ultimately exacerbate an impending crisis. If we were dealing in equities instead of metals, Greenspan would be proposing that the controlling stakeholder Fed-Ex its shares over to the local exchange repository so as to provide yet more ammo for the short sellers. This is obviously not a solution; indeed, it is the opposite of a solution - let's wratch it up another notch or two.

This would all be ok if central banks had an infinite amount of gold. But they don't, of course; and they may in fact have less available for leasing than one might presuppose. Of the 31,000 tons of metal central currently own, perhaps 8000 tons has already been leased out ( and it's has been a great trade so far - borrow gold at 1.5%, sell it, invest the proceeds at 6.5%. ) Is all of the remaining 23,000 tons available for lease? Will central banks empty their vaults entirely to keep a lid on the price? This is doubtful.

The one finite liquidity OTC market that Greenspan did not mention was the silver market. And probably for good reason. The silver market shares many of the same characteristics of the gold market ( inelastic, low carry costs, huge outstanding physical short position, endemic production shortfalls ) ; but unlike gold there is no central bank inventory that can be used to inject liquidity in times of crisis. All the ammo is gone. If things got tight here, a naked Mr. Greenspan would be reduced to giving Mr. Buffet a call. Perhaps to invite him out for lunch.

The July 24 speech confirms the dangers of the OTC derivatives market. Yes, Greenspan is saying, there is reason for concern here. We do see that. But don't worry. Most OTC markets are not real markets, they are not driven so much by Economics 101 issues like supply and demand but rather are driven by psychology, fashion and chartists. Indeed, underlying physical supply has no bearing for the OTC markets characterized by infinite liquidity - three keystrokes and problem solved.

The precious metals OTC markets stand in stark contrast to these virtual markets. If a real crisis strikes, they will strike here first.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:20
panda (skinny) ID#30116:: About two thirds is outside the U.S.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:19
tolerant1 (some interesting points...) ID#373284:: http://www.reagan.com/HotTopics.main/HotMike/document-10.20.1997.5.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:18
panda (Squirrel) ID#30116:: Does the phrase, ...closer to the truth than you know., ring any bells? As far the corpus delicti go, there's always Mena for a start..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:17
gagnrad (squirrel re 22:22) ID#43460:: That set of URLs was worth the price of admission. Wonder what the POG will be when they finally put the whole bunch of them in jail? Wonder also if an October crash would assure a landslide Republican victory in Congress. If so would the POG benefit? If not would it benefit?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:14
CPO@AU (ROR (erle) ID#412286 hang on a mo) ID#329186:: ROR: It is very easy to lay the blame in the wrong place The IMF camdessus and co are probably responsible for a lot of worlds misery and this has not gone unnoticed on kitco.
The world is not fair but no amount of pontification or magic wand will change that. People have been made soft by so called socialism whereby responsibility is handed over to governments who end up wasting resources on bureaucracies and bloated inefficiencies.
May I ask you to look around at the people you know in their 50's & 60's and i bet that you will find the following
A ) people that had little or no education never appeared to earn a great deal of money BUT ( & not by dishonesty ) manage to get a good home mortgage paid and are relativley comfortable.
B ) people who have a good aducation earn super salaries yet end up with nothing ( well maybe self pity )
Its wrather like management you make the most of your resources would you not agree.
The closer we get to 31 dec 1999 the problem of those relying on the state to take care of them will grow and they will have no idea how to cope how will they get their next pint of bear of packet of smokes ( loot rape etc )
IMHO the older one gets the more one realises that politicians are self centered power hungry and it becomes a matter of voting for the lesser evil according to ones perceptions.
As for lawyers are the last defence ( ambulance chasers on one side ) they thrive where ever bureacrats surface, however currupt a government is it must have a legal system.
I expect your congress much as our parliment is full of lawyers /barristers ( you don't have the latter ) and when you consider the no of lawyers as % of your US population I fail to see where their defense of the persecuted comes into it ( having made the laws )
my apologies to those lawyers who do not fit into the above catagory there are some .
The working will prevail.....the working what .......it covers a lot of people

Make the best of what you have or go become an ex patriot and see just how deprived some people really are .....go on try it

go gold

cpo-uk

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:11
Auric (Panda) ID#255151:: G'day! Do they really have non outcome based soccer games in Massachussetts, where they don't keep score? The idea being that the loser will suffer loss of self esteem. GOTT IM HIMMEL!! : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:11
skinny (Question) ID#287114:: Of all the money the U.S.A has in circulation, how much is outside the country.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:09
jefsilver7__A (Jtaher: Ref Armstrong) ID#251238:: I have been following him for the past 5 years along with a few others. While Armstrong changed his view on bonds & gold 2 years ago, he always gives the numbers where he is right and wrong. I would rather have someone change his mind every two years and catch the majority of the trend than someone like Prechter who called the 1987 high as the big wave and for the next 5 years he tried to say he was still right - it was an extension. Armstrong's long-term seems unchanged that between 2000 and 2003-2007 will be gold up and bonds down. I like his style of global correlation. Nobody else seems to get this point. What I find fascinating is how everyone on here is so convinced that a stock market crash will send gold up. Armstrong's view is that during true inflationary trends, commodities and stocks will rally together but in different percentage terms. So far, stocks are falling and gold is declining as well. This is very interesting to say the least.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:08
panda (Earl...) ID#30116:: I don't watch any TV news, listen to as little radio news as is possible, and use the net to gather the information that I want.

It seems to me that we are in the home stretch here regarding WJC & Co. Either way he is finished. Impeached or impotent president. Take your pick. The Republicans would probably desire no impeachment procedings and avoid an AlGore thing along with the financial market reaction. Then again, who knows? Stranger things have happened in politics.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:07
Squirrel (panda - IRS audits and) ID#280214:: other intimidation on behalf of Klinton are included in the url in my post of 22:22.
The list of individuals and organizations beaten, threatened and investigated - whose only crime was posing a threat to Klinton is as long or longer than those who have mysteriously died.
The Klinton administration is very much like a third-world junta.
We have yet to find the mass graves.
Or perhaps they are doing it one by one to be less noticeable.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:04
crazytimes (Sorry for the long repost, but a good read.) ID#342376:: And Now, the Financial Apocalypse
by J. Orlin Grabbe
When a prominent MIT economics professor takes leave of his senses, blathering on like the worst of the stock stuffers of Wall Street and financial entertainment television, and when leading academic scholars and market practitioners proclaim that a replay of the market correction of 1987 is highly unlikely, you know the end is here. It can't get better, or worse, than this.

This expansion will run forever, Rudi Dornbush writes in the July 30, 1998, Wall Street Journal. No, not for another year, or two years, or five. But forever. That ought to stick a hot poker up the ass of any bear within a hundred miles of Cambridge, Massachusetts, huh?

Meanwhile ex-MIT professor and IMF Deputy Managing Director Stanley Fischer is off in Moscow, doling out billion of dollars in IMF funds to the Russian mafia. Of course they don't tell it like it is, over at the IMF. They euphemistically refer to opening the money spiggot as stablilizing the financial system or buying some breathing room ( a highly technical economic term that apparently means not having to do anything as long as more money is coming in the door ) . But the IMF aid allows the Russian central bank to continue to intervene in the foreign exchange market in support of the over-valued ruble, which in turns shores up Russian banks at the expense of industry and other sectors of the economy. And a majority of these banks are owned by the Russian mafia. Billions for the mafia. But Fischer somehow can't factor that into his equations.

Another Cambridge expatriate, ex-Harvard Professor Larry Summer sits over in the Treasury department, guzzling diet coke and hoping to take over the job of the departing Robert Rubin, who has now devoted several years to making the world profitable for Goldman Sachs. Goldman may soon go public in an IPO--a method of printing money by issuing stock certificates that could turn Goldman partners into even bigger millionaires than they already are. Summers' most notable recent achievements were setting Suharto straight on how to correct Indonesia's economy, and repairing the IRS's botched computer modernization project. Now Suharto is gone, Indonesia's economy continues to disintegrate, and the IRS's botched computer project promises to become more botched as we approach the Year 2000.

Is it a special form of Cambridge madness? Something hovering in the air above the Charles River?

Back to the stock market. Ah, the stock market. There is no longer need of sweat of brow or precision of acumen. Just buy and hold, invest for the long run, and get ready to eat the rainbow stew. The stock market will fulfill your wildest dreams. There is no such thing as a stock risk premium anymore, according to some economists. Stocks are safer investments than T-bills, bonds, or commodities, and they have higher returns. What more do you want? Why even bother to eat breakfast? Sell the food and buy some stocks. For the l-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-g-g-g run. Choo choo. I hear that train a comin'.

This expansion will run forever.

It is hard to imagine any article with worse timing than, say, Asia's Bright Future, by Harvard Professors Steven Radelet & Jeffrey Sachs, writing in the September/December 1997 issue of Foreign Affairs. Their chipper assessment appeared just as financial markets were collapsing across Southeast Asia. Of course Asia probably does have a bright future, much as Europe could have been said to have had a bright future during the Black Death years of the 14th Century, for that appalling time of death and disease was eventually followed by the Renaissance. Give or take a century.

But Harvard has nothing on MIT. This expansion will run forever, Dornbusch says.

Oh, timing issues are difficult. Almost two years ago I came to the conclusion that stocks had reached valuation extremes. I formed the expectation that equilibrium forces would now begin to exert pressure in the direction of more familiar historical relationships and, consequently, lower stock prices ( Sell Stocks Now, Bye Bye, Miss American Pie ) . This was based on the private observation that stock overvaluation was comparable to that prevalent in 1929.

Silly me to have believed that 1929 relationships would provide any sort of container. And even though I suggested a tongue-in-cheek scenario where stocks ( the Dow Industrials ) might rise to 13,000, I considered it improbable that the Dow would rise above the then current level of around 6,000. But much to my surprise, the market thumbed its nose at 1929, and proceeded to cover almost half the distance to 13,000, peaking at 9338 ( on a closing basis ) on July 17, 1998.

As it was, I was a year ahead of the Asian Crisis and two years premature for Wall Street's imminent stock meltdown. Call it: Give or take a couple of years.

But this: This expansion will run forever? Give or take a couple billion years.

Why will the U.S. economy likely not see a recession for years to come? Because, Dornbush asserts--I'm not making this up: We don't want one, we don't need one, and, as we have the tools to keep the current expansion going, we won't have one.

So there you have it. We don't want it. We don't need it. We won't stand for it. And we can keep it from happening. We are in charge. The forces of nature will do our bidding. No, I don't know who we are. I guess he means Cambridge professors.

The gods don't like human hubris. They have a way of cutting down those with excessive pride. Whom they will destroy they first make mad. And Rudi Dornbusch, at least on the evidence of the Wall Street Journal article, has already become a raving lunatic. What stage is next?

There is a line of logical fallacy called post hoc ergo propter hoc: after this, therefore because of it. The fallacy that because one thing occurred after something else, the earlier event was therefore the cause of the later event. And Rudi Dornbusch seems to have fallen into it.

When Dornbusch says we, I don't think he means you and me. Certainly he doesn't speak for me. So who is he talking about? About economists, plausibly. The ones he knows from Cambridge, equally plausibly. Rudi can certainly look over at the IMF and the Treasury, and many other places, and see some of his colleagues at work.

But where is the evidence they are doing an amazing job? ( We have the tools to keep the current expansion going. ) Or even a commendable job? Or even a competent job? I can't find any.

The reasoning seems to be: We were put in charge. And then the economy expanded. And the stock market went up. Right. And Bill Clinton made the trains run on time. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

No danger the party will end, Dornbush tell us: First, there is no inflation. That's right, of course. There is a massive deflation going on in Japan and other Asian nations. I'll leave it to Dornbusch to explain why that's a positive development.

Second, the government's coffers are overflowing with budget surplus. Oh? How is that? Dornbusch must mean: in surplus as long as we falsely add in the net positive cash flow on the Social Security account, which is still scheduled to go bankrupt in 2020. The last I checked, the stock of outstanding government debt was getting larger, not smaller. You can't lie to me about a government surplus.

Finally, this gem: Thus, only natural causes, and not the Fed, can bring the economy to a standstill. Fortunately, we have the monetary and fiscal resources to keep that from happening, as well as a policy team that won't hesitate to use them for continued expansion.

By policy team I assume Dornbusch means the dickheads in the administration. Now I understand. They'll pass a law against recessions. Clinton will go on TV and feel our pain, and it will all go away. The Village will gather together so that each and everyone will have their fair share of a rapidly diminishing communal pie.

Yes, the gods are hard at work, inciting a bunch of jerk-off politicians ( and also Cambridge economists? ) to recreate the Soviet Economy here in the U.S. The oh-so- successful Soviet Economy.

Like the Black Death, the disease of hubris has spread everywhere. Robert Liton, director of economic studies at Brookings, and Anthony Santomero, director of the Financial Institutions Center at the Wharton School, convened a little conference of academic scholars and market practitioners, and now inform us: A correction may come--and may even be in process--but a repeat of the hair-raising events of 1987 is highly unlikely ( Wall Street Journal, July 28, 1998 ) .

Now this could be simply interpreted as saying that many of the attendees have lost their hair since 1987. But if so, this is an excessively subtle point. Liton and Santomero go on to give a list of innocuous, even irrelevant, reasons why 1987 supposedly won't happen again. About the only thing they don't do is promote the notion that circuit breakers, or temporary halts in trading, have an positive effect in making a market meltdown less probable.

They instead cite material from Lawrence Harris which knocks the notion that circuit breakers are useful. But they never get around to criticizing the consensus belief in the supposed high improbability of a repeat of 1987. For academicians must also have their fantasies. And one of these is: Events like 1987 will not be repeated because they have been studied.

Studied or not, the imminent market meltdown will come quickly. Probably in two waves down. A correction, a relief rally, and then the massacre. We'll see how the policy team makes it all go away.

Some would talk foolishly about the benefits of creative destruction, Rudi Dornbusch writes. Yes, like me, for example.

Sorry, Rudi. You don't have a clue. Let the ruination begin.

The bay-trees in our country are all wither'd
And meteors fright the fixed stars of heaven;
The pale-faced moon looks bloody on the earth
And lean-look'd prophets whisper fearful change.
These signs forerun the death or fall of kings.

--William Shakespeare, Richard II

August 2, 1998
Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:00
George__A (Squirril) ID#433172:: I'm for impeachment if proof of wrongdoing can be produced,but only if, he deserves the same consideratiuon as anyone else innocent till PROVEN guilty.

I checked out the urls, but they don't convince. They are the product of a biased mind.

Wheat will last longer than you if it's well sealed in 5 gallon plastic pails, and you can hide it anywhere, it's rodent proof, waterproof,etc. I stashed some a few years back on an island under a log. Damm, a guy comes along and says I was rootin around looking for some otters and I found some rice or soimething. I didn't say anything,just went out and got my wheat, it was still fine after 3 years.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 23:00
tolerant1 (Squirrel, Namaste' Ron's shots wont's get lost) ID#373284:: http://www.ruddynews.com/index.shtml

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:59
panda (Even the CBOE has taken to adding their two cents on the markets outlook..) ID#30116:: http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:58
Earl () ID#227238:: Panda: Only strong family ties could compel me to remain in a place like Mass. Daily doses of the Kennedy drivel would be enough to induce chronic nausea and vomiting.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:54
panda (As far as WJC goes....) ID#30116:: 'Denial is more than a river in Egypt.'

The media and most folks like to focus on the sexual aspect of this particular incident. So, to put it in perspective, if you've ever filled out an income tax form and SIGNED it under the pains and penalties of PERJURY...

The IRS sure doesn't take it lightly....

And as far as witness tampering goes, the courts used to take an extremely dim view of this. Perhaps WJC can change all of this? If he does, I'll take my semi-auto pistol/rifle over what passes for the rule of law.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:53
Squirrel (Tolerant1 - Namaste') ID#280214:: http://users.aol.com/beachbt/brwnbult.txt
This site includes the following by
Lt. Col. Steve Cogswell, a doctor and deputy medical examiner with
the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology regarding evidence shown by X-rays of inside the left side of Brown's head, in the area behind his eye socket,
there are multiple small fragments of white flecks, which are metallic density on X-ray. That's what we might describe as a `lead snowstorm' from a high-velocity gunshot wound.

The page also includes this item:
According to the Air Force report, within days of the crash the maintenance chief for Dubrovnik's airport, Niko Junik, was found dead by gunshot, an apparent suicide.

As to why Ron Brown was executed:
At the time of Brown's death, Independent Counsel Daniel Pearson was seeking to determine whether Brown had engaged in several sham financial transactions with longtime business partner Nolanda Hill shortly before he became secretary of commerce.
On March 19, just weeks before Brown's sudden death, Pearson obtained subpoenas that showed his probe had widened to include Brown's ties to possibly illicit fund-raising activities involving the Democratic National Committee and a DNC-affiliated group called the Asian Pacific Advisory Council. Pearson's investigation was closed soon after Brown's plane crashed.

P.S. download this page to your hard drive before it disappears
as other evidence has
Cogswell and another AFIP staff member allege that Brown's case
file no longer contains any full-head X-rays.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:47
HighRise (Internationa Markets) ID#401460:: A lot of Red!
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

HighRise

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:45
panda (Earl) ID#30116:: The state of Massachusetts passed some new comprehensive gun legislation. Basically, what you now get is a license 'class' based on your need ( if the chief of police or his designee feels that way on that particular day ) , size of the MAGAZINE ( ? ) , and date of manufacture of the magazine? Basically, the license is meaningless because they can always find some small infraction which then invalidates YOUR license to carry. So, you are now a CRIMINAL. Yup, I feel safer. About as safe as wearing a pair of antlers and a light brown coat with a white spot in back while on a hike in the woods during deer season....

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:42
HighRise (George_A) ID#401460:: You said: �Obviously many here have lived pure
lives but fancy themselves butt kickers of those who don't. Just
ain't got no class.�

No, we are not pure, I disagree; but, few here are the President of the United States of America,who has lied on the witness stand, and who has almost destroyed the office of President.

You who defend this sleaze ball are either totally manipulated by the press or are extremely loyal and blind to the truth. The facts are out there, just open your eyes and mind to the truth.

The list of Clinton�s and his cabinet�s illegal misadventures is very long. The President is a master of deceit and the lie. That is the only reason he is not behind bars now.

How you and others can continue to defend such behavior is really amazing, and a true credit to Clinton�s power over the blind public. He rubs our face in his filth and gets away with it - we like it! If any of us did what he has done we would be in jail my friend.

Yes LBJ should have been impeached for VietNam - The Tomken Bay fake attack, that precipitated the death of many.

HighRise

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:40
Goldbug23 (Envy - your 22:26) ID#432148:: Well said, but ROR and his liberal friends will not believe it, of course. Blaming others is their forte.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:36
George__A (Erle) ID#433172:: Wrong, I don't counsel any attitude at all. What C and Monica do is their affair. What Hillary does is her affair. What anybody does is their affair as long as it's legal.

I do have daughters and sons too, what they do is their business 100%,I just hope they stay safe. I sure hope they don't save dresses and stuff for sovenirs.

Black women were certainly honored thruout the south. puh

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:36
panda (Earl) ID#30116:: :- ) ) :- ) ) :- ) )

If an increase in the supply shares in gold mining companies increases their value, then by all means, PRINT MORE SHARES!!! :- ) )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:34
Auric (Try Again) ID#255151:: Shakespeare Search Engine, Act II-- http://www.nexial.nl/cgi-bin/shakespeare

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:33
Earl () ID#227238:: Panda: Don't you go shinin' no lites on them there contradictions. They are humorous just as they are.

Besides gun control being in direct contradiction to a worker's uprising, here is another: ..... legal abortion is clearly anti worker. Evidently the conditions of working men and women is enhanced ONLY if we create more workers. Huh? ..... If we have more of something, does its value increase or decrease?

Thousands more peasants available for useful work will increase their collective value? ..... Shoe factories in Asia speak clearly to validity of that assertion.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:31
Auric (STUDIO.R) ID#255151:: Hate to give away my best tricks, mate, but here's a cool Shakespeare search engine. Between Kitco, my public school education, and this search engine, I'm starting to understand Shakespeare! ( I think ) http://www.nexial.nl/cgi_bin/shakespeare

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:30
EJ (@Mike Stewart: Too much fear on the street for an August come-back) ID#45173:: The market will continue to discount for Q3 and Q4 bad news. On the other hand, Asia down this a.m. More flight capital to the US?

Hong Kong Hang Seng ^HSI 10:29PM 7627.15 - 309.05 -3.89%

-EJ

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:28
6pak (Currency traders are employees (Joe sixpack?) @ The guy's in red suspenders EH!) ID#335190:: August 2, 1998

Don't shoot 'em, they're only the currency traders

OTTAWA ( CP ) -- Those guys in red suspenders were at it again last week.

With the value of the Canadian dollar bobbing up and down, down, down like a fiddler's elbow

It's not done in a very rational way, Chretien groused. It's done with short-term money overnight by guys with red suspenders.

They're not cold-hearted, ruthless speculators trying to drive currencies to the wall for their own personal gain in a Simon LeGree fashion, said economist Peter Duncan of the University of Toronto, referring to the fictional slave-driver in Uncle Tom's Cabin.

Currency traders are employees seeking to maximize profits on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour basis by forecasting to the best of their ability a dollar's value relative to other currencies. They examine economic fundamentals, political developments, market news and rumors...and each other.

So don't waste your time trying to figure out what the guys in red suspenders are doing. They're trying to figure out the same thing.
http://www.freecartoons.com/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.Loonie-Red-Suspenders.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:26
Envy (@ROR) ID#219363:: You say that the big corporations are reducing the standard of living of John Q., the rich are destroying the world, etc, and that we the public will rise up against greed, etc, etc.

We each carry with us our own sense of destiny. Each of us is the source of all things - we have hands, and minds, and souls, and we can each be a creative force in this world. The above makes it sound as if we are at someone elses mercy. I don't know about others, but I am not. This is my life, and I can choose to dream what I want to dream, and to put forth the effort to make it real, we all have that power. To blame a single one of your problems on someone else, no matter what form that takes ( racial commentary, economic arguments, educational complaints, or any of the other many poor pitiful me discussions ) is short sighted, lazy, and weak. Each of us carries within us the spark of god and any one of us has the power to do anything that can be done. I have my own problems, but they aren't anyone elses fault, and nobody but me can fix them. I would find it hard to admit to being at the mercy of any man, much less any government. Look inward and make the magic. Dream your dreams. Have your vision. Become the source.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:26
ERLE (All of us weenies that are duped by the corporate press.) ID#190411:: ROR, your naivete is astonishing.
Why don't you check your premises?
Let me make it simple enough for a lawyer.
I don't need your help, I don't want your help, leave me to my own little misery. Push off, get lost, laisses nous faire.
Although, I might want to hire a lawyer to attend to some miniscule affair. Then I could sue the fatherless SOB into oblivion for screwing up a small transaction.
On a lighter note, do you think that your goldstocks will come back?
What's your take on TVX?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:22
CPO@AU (strat( FEAR ORG ID# 93241 wow what a site) ID#329186:: That is one very interesting/scarey site Geheimstats Polizei the more I read about the USA the happier I am to be over this side of the pond no offense to US Folks in general...........mind as a youngster i always thought the USA as a police state

Go gold ( advertise FEAR.org in tourist offices.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:22
Squirrel (George) ID#280214:: I agree. We should have impeached LBJ and Nixon over Vietnam.
Our failure to do so should not prevent us from doing it this time.
We hopefully learned a lesson from the past. Such activity by the President or permitted by the President can and has done lasting harm to this nation. For the sake of our nation we MUST impeach this traitor. We must bring to light the treasonous activities of this administration.
Please refer to the sites noted below
or run a search for impeach on Yahoo, Snap or other search engines.
Tolerant1's post about Mena is, by itself, of far more importance that all the handwringing about Monicagate.

Scroll to the bottom for a list of Deaths associated with Klinton
the list is too long to repost here
http://users.aol.com/beachbt/recitatm.txt

P.S. The url in my earlier post must be splice together to eliminate the space that split it asunder.
Also - I have found the following search engine quite useful
http://www.snap.com/
which yielded the following
http://www.nauticom.net/www/kloesch/
http://www.massgop.com/bclinton.htm
http://users.aol.com/beachbt/index.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:21
rhody (@ Sam__A re. lease rates: Gold will bottom at $275.25) ID#411440:: If we assume that lease rates are the main price control on the
POG by CBs then:

three weeks ago POG = $294 @ lease rate of 1.51%

Now POG = $284 @ lease rate of 0.70%

If we assume a direct causal link between lease rate decline
and POG decline, then POG decline = $10 for a lease rate decline
of .81%. So for each $1.00 decline in the POG required a lease
rate decline of .08%.

If the CBs are willing to drop lease rates to zero, they have
the capacity to drop the POG by 0.70 divided by .08 = $8.75.

So the POG could be dropped to $275.25 provided the CBs would be
willing to give away borrowed gold for free!

The lowest lease rate I have ever seen is about 0.65%. If we go
down to that lease rate, we drop the POG by $.63.

Which ever way one looks at it, we are quite near the bottom.
My estimates then coincide with OLD GOLD's estimate of retesting
the old lows of $275-280

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:21
Speed (ROR) ID#29048:: Poor people are a debit on the ledger of society. Low income or no income, they consume more than they produce. Our jails are full of criminals from the underclasses. The solution is simple. Poverty must be taxed and taxed heavily. Any person choosing to remain poor should be judged defective and given Liberal doses of work therapy. Progressive fines must be levied on the idle poor. FDR was right, round them all up and make them build roads across Alaska, clean up the national parks, and learn the benefits of hard work. And finally, if all else fails, round them up and send them to fight a foreign war. FDR had some good ideas.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:17
panda (WARNING -- politically inflammatory stuff..) ID#30116:: ROR -- If the workers are so oppressed, why don't they take up arms and fight the corporate demons? Is this why the left liberals support gun control/confiscation? Is the left AFRAID of an uprising?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:14
6pak () ID#335190:: August 2, 1998

Canada's sagging dollar forces changes at Old Orchard Beach

OLD ORCHARD BEACH, Maine ( AP ) -- Ou sont les Canadiens? For years, summer's arrival brought sunbathers south from Quebec City and Montreal to don skimpy swimsuits and enjoy the 11-kilometre beach, enriching owners of motels, arcades and french fry stands.

But now, with Canadian currency tumbling to an all-time low, Old Orchard Beach seems to be losing that certain je ne sais quoi. There are no Canadians because of the exchange,

In Old Orchard Beach, where Canadian flags are almost as common as the Stars and Stripes, and where many signs are written in both French and English, the trend is nothing new.

Business owners have watched for years as the percentage of Canadian tourists continued to drop from the days when they accounted for 80 per cent of visitors.

It's not that they don't like us, Hamilton said. They've said when things get better, they'll come back.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.US-Tourism-Canadians.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:11
Auric (Earl) ID#255151:: Had to chuckle at that post painting you as a lefty. That's like calling me anti-Gold.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:08
ERLE (ROR, Pardon my intemperate language.) ID#190411:: George counsels a lackadaisical attitude.
'Course George doesn't have any daughters in DC.
Mr. Lewinsky is tethered by all of the psychobabble that erupts as an undigested pizza, from the gut of DC.
He hasn't the gonads to confront the great pantsdropper that any father in any previous time would have had.
There is a great deal to be said for the old South's dedication to the honor of women.
Joe sixpack will lead the gold rally. Good for him/her.
You might ask yourselves who propelled the 1980 moonshot?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 22:04
6pak (Religious & Political Ideology @ Wonderful tools eh! (tools of destruction)) ID#335190:: August 2, 1998

Holocaust museum demands removal of crosses at Auschwitz

JERUSALEM ( AP ) -- Israel's Holocaust museum Sunday demanded that Polish authorities immediately remove dozens of wooden crosses put up by Catholics outside the former Auschwitz death camp.

A statement from the Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial called the erection of the Christian symbol a provocative act by extreme groups. Yad Vashem said the act violated an agreement reached earlier this year by the Israeli memorial, the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington and Polish government and church authorities. The agreement said no religious, ideological or political symbols would be erected on the site.

Shalev said he hoped government and church officials in Poland would act immediately to remove the crosses.

Everyone agrees and understands that Auschwitz should be kept in the authentic way that it was left, he said.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Israel-Auschwitz-Crosses.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:58
ROR (Erle) ID#412286:: Duped by the corporate press as you are you do not know who the enemy is.. It is the greedy profiteers in the big Corporations that are bringing the std of living od Joe six pack down ..He knows this but is powerless against the pro corporate media and their monetary influence on democracy. His/her discontent is growing and will come to fruition when the depression begins. It is private capital worldwide through its handmaiden the IMF which is raping the workers. Lawyers are the last defence for the persecuted. The working will prevail. Reagan-Thatcherism to the dust bin of history it so richly deserves as a philosophy to suppress freedom and opportunity. ( except I agree with Reagan and the Repiblican conservatives on abortion as legal abortion is clearly anti worker ) .

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:57
STUDIO.R (@auric.........sorry for the delay.....got sidetracked in the insanity of hamlet.........) ID#288369:: LADY MACBETH: Yet here's a spot.

DOCTOR: Hark, she speaks! I will set down what comes from her, to

satisfy my remembrance the more strongly.

LADY MACBETH: Out, damned spot! Out, I say! One- two -why then 'tis

time to do't. Hell is murky. Fie, my lord, fie! A soldier, and

afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our

power to account? Yet who would have thought the old man to have

had so much blood in him?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:57
tolerant1 (Squirrel, Namaste' It is a shame that the media in general have done nothing to) ID#373284:: discuss the real report from Starr...it is pathetic...Monica is a sideshow and nothing more than an addendum...to show continuity...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:55
Squirrel (Proposed Articles of Impeachment) ID#280214:: We the People of the United States, propose eight categories and specifications to be incorporated in the Articles of Impeachment, which the House should include in its indictment to the Senate regarding the President's impeachment for misconduct, etc. For instance,
( 1 ) His extensive actions in violation and obstruction of the law and of justice;
( 2 ) His promotion, acquiescence in corruption, and unethical administration in the Executive Branch of government;
( 3 ) His failure to exercise due diligence in supervising the heads of several principal officers of the executive departments, ambassadors, and the agency heads who report to him; ( 4 ) His subversion of the Constitution;
( 5 ) His subordination of our sovereignty to foreign powers and international bodies;
( 6 ) His violation of the public trust;
( 7 ) His acts of usurpation of power; and
( 8 ) His acts of violence.
for more see:
http://www.impeachclinton.com/proceedings/articlesclinton.htm#Proposed Articles of Impeachment

and this quote from Representative Barr
I don't put [Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky] in the same category as these other abuses that really are related to the survival of this country as we know it.
at
http://www.impeachment.org/

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:54
Earl () ID#227238:: ROR: Uh, okay. Tongue in cheek it is then. And I did defend you. Vigorously. Almost until death. Or until you were mostly wounded. I don't recall exactly right now. ..... Pull up Friday nites, unredacted ( love them lawyer words ) proceedings. ..... I was even red baited on your behalf. Yes. I know it's hard to believe that it could happen in such an august forum but it did nonetheless.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:49
Envy (Dow Sentiment) ID#219363:: Mike: My 21:10 might be TRYING to be a DOW sentiment indicator *grin*. If there are other phrases that might help anyone out, just gimme the word and I'll add them in.

Envy

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:48
George__A (yuk) ID#433172:: Some of the posts regarding Clinton are more disgusting than anything he did IMO. Obviously many here have lived pure lives but fancy themselves butt kickers of those who don't. Just ain't got no class.
I agree on the Chinese question, if it's true he should be impeached,LGB said it wasn't true. Nixon and LBJ should have both been shown the door over Viet-Nam, my God, how can anything in recent history be compared with a bloodbath so easy to avoid? Vital national interests,puh, made a lota difference when we got out eh?

The Russian threat will go on and on because it's profitable. 1 1/4 M people in prison, is that a sucessful society? They are being organized you know.

I just sent the broker more money, looks like thre last round qand things could get interesting. Am I fighting an addiction here?

I liked Ian Smith, I was going to offer to dig his grave. Most of them guys I would just leave and let the bugs work them down.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:44
Mike Stewart (Dow sentiment) ID#270253:: I have been looking around all weekend for sentiment on the general market. Everyone says that we are now in a bear. August should provide a rebound, at least. I am not bullish, but expect the coming decline to be better disguised than this.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:42
sam__A (@ jonesy re your 21:35 - trades this week) ID#286253:: I'm long silver, long gold. Will trade off base position by buying silver dips ( esp south of 5:30 ) ; will sell spikes IF fundamentals remain the same. If things begin to tighten again, will only sell extreme spikes, and then only reluctantly. This puppy's going higher, and it will be tough get back on board once train has left station.

happy trading,

sam__A.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:41
gunrunner (Speaking of which...) ID#429121:: Q: What do you call Monica when she has a runny nose?

A: Full

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:39
ERLE (ROR, now that I am convinvced that you are a provacateur.) ID#190411:: So you are saying that the fearless fuhrer of these United States cannot help from putting his leftward tilting crank into the mouths of girls?
If we shall ever meet, I will look forward to the the disemboweling of you.
Your position ( shall I use that term? ) is utterly untenable.
You look at this as a set contest between WJC and the Especiale prosecutor. That is the way it will play out.
You will be right,---- Mr. penis will be exonerated. -- In the talking head press.
But, you and the trial lawyers that fund this abomination will not find this as pretty a victory as you seem to think so now.
You will fail to capture the twenty percent that will bring your gommint to oblivion.
The twenty percent faction is here, a reality.
Your old way of thinking, ( der socialimus ) , will be brought down with the advent of your detested joe six-pack types ) .
Joe sixpack don't need no friggin' saviour with a lawyer bizcard.
Joe sixpack will redeem the old longs, While CNBC marvels at the spot POG.
Your concept of the generous government is being vetoed by those that produce the baubles that you so easily dismiss.
You sir, are an enemy of the producers.
I want hillary to cum on this forum to discuss option accounts.
Earl is sort of OK but, does he know all of the hillary technique?
Compared to hillary, all of the traders here are scrap.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:35
jonesy (@ Sam_A) ID#251166:: Long silver, short plat, afraid of gold.

Looks like it's Mr. Elliott Wave vs. Chart A. Mentals.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:34
Squirrel (Tolerant1, Thank You for your 21:07) ID#280214:: Your concerns are shrouded behind the smokescreen of this idiotic bandwidth consumption regarding the sex scandal. I occasionally tune into shows debating the President's behaviour and I hear his defenders repeatedly saying this entire witch hunt is only about sex between consenting adults. Nary a word is uttered about the national security issues you mention in your post. I hope Henry Hyde's committee nails him on treason and other high crimes and misdemeanors.
Look to Grizz's post of Tue Jul 28 1998 01:40
for several urls of Impeach Clinton sites such as
http://www.impeachment.org/

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:32
sam__A (@ Steve in TO re your 19:39 - Are gold lease supplies finite?) ID#286253:: You ask: I'd be interested to know just how far the central banks can go with leasing. Let's do some rough numbers: CBs collectively have about 31,000 tons. The US has about 8000 tons, the Europeans about 12,000 tons; the remaining 11,000 tons are spread out among everyone else. ( Somebody please correct me here if I am off. )

The Americans have not leased and may need an act of Congress to do so. Estimates of the current amount already-leased run about 8000 tons. This leaves about a 15,000 ton float. Is all of this available for lease? I doubt it very much. Say half of it is. This leaves a residual 7500 tons that are ready-to-lease, so to speak.

So to use your example of 10 million people rushing to buy $30,000 each ( about 30,000 tons ) -- no, they couldn't do it. One quarter of that amount would exhaust the available supplies as calculated above.

On this note, the last WGC weekly commentary indicates that sales of US golden eagles coins _doubled_ year over year to 1.1 million ozs. At least we are going in the right direction.

sam__A.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:32
strat (State of the Union) ID#93241:: What's wrong with America goes deeper than WJC and the sold-out politicos. Here's just a sample: http://www.fear.org/

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:31
6pak () ID#335190:: Saturday, August 1, 1998 Published at 00:15 GMT 01:15 UK

World: Europe

On the trail of the Amber Room

An exquisite room made entirelty of carved golden tree resin

The BBC Europe correspondent David Shukman reports:

The mystery of what is generally considered to be the
greatest of the missing treasures of Europe may be about to
be solved.

Two rival teams in Germany and
Lithuania believe they have located the
Russian Czar's Amber Room, which was
looted by the Nazis during World War II.

The Amber Room - often described as the Eighth Wonder of
the World - is currently valued at about $250m.

Hidden in a silver mine

For five decades the KGB, the
Stasi and many others have
failed in the search.

But now, the German
investigator Helmut Gaensel
says he has found the spot
where the treasure is hidden.
http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_143000/143364.stm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:31
tolerant1 (On August 15th, in Cold Spring Harbor on the Island that is Long some Kitcoites) ID#373284:: will be getting together around 12:30 - It will be a Saturday...anyone who is interested can email me for further details tolerant1@msn.com

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:27
tolerant1 (Aside from the fact that Orin don't speak for the American people and we do not) ID#373284:: need his opinion...If Congress forgives Clintler its time to clean House!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:25
BillinOregon (Strad Master) ID#262242:: Strad, good to see you back. I have been in the San Gorgonio Mts. and they are beautiful this time of year. Sorry to hear about your father, hope he recovers without any complications.

We had a family wedding here yesterday. Lots of good food and fantastic music at the recption. The bridgroom is from your area ( Pasadena ) , he is a welcome addition to our family. He is the young man who plays concert piano.

Will be seeing Reify, Tolerant1, Mum and others at the Kitco get-to-gether in New York the 15th of this month.

God Bless you and your family, hoping to get down your way.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:21
tolerant1 (and when in doubt...just the facts...eh...uh huh...Mena and Clintler...uh huh...) ID#373284:: http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/MENA/The_Arkansas_Committee.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:20
HighRise (Gold?) ID#401460:: ASIA/EUROPE SPOT PRICE
August 02, 1998
8:32PM New York Time
Timezone Equivalents
.
Bid
Ask
Change from New York close
GOLD
286.00
286.50
-0.40
-0.14%
http://www.kitconet.com/gold.live.html#londonfix

Gold ( CMX )
Dec
291.00
291.00
290.20
290.90
+0.40
8/2/98
17:46
290.80
290.40
http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm f

GC Q8
August Gold
2863
-26
-0.9
2894
2860
20.9K
http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/dbcfiles/curcommt.html?SOURCE=core/dbc

GOLD
31/07/1998
20:58
286.40
-3.70
-1.05
http://www.sharenet.co.za/spots.html

HighRise

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:18
tolerant1 (liar...liar...set the country on fire...) ID#373284:: http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/98/3/30/MONLET26.HTM

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:18
HighRise (They will forgive Clinton's Sexual Assalts) ID#401460:: Drudge Report
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/1998/aug/02/080200850.html

HighRise

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:17
tolerant1 (Clintler and Hitler) ID#373284:: http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/le961101.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:15
Squirrel (ERLE - ROR is baiting us again) ID#280214:: We can not hope to argue rationally on a point by point basis. He is convinced of the validity of his theories. He has the FAITH which is all the justification he feels he needs. He ignores evidence that disagrees with his faith. He does not directly answer our questions for he feels he is above such response. It is a futile battle with a spectral voice.

We get sucked into responding because we feel such theories voiced here reflect poorly upon the rest of us if we let them go unanswered. It may be adequate to just insert an occasional derisive comment regarding the poisonous governmental theories some misguided children believe in.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:13
tolerant1 (Hitler and Clintler) ID#373284:: http://www.krl.com/~peterson/Fun/clinton.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:12
gunrunner (Black dress, blue dress...) ID#429121:: ...With stains... Guess Monica couldn't take all of what Clintoris had to offer. Spooge... Cowboy cream... Jizm... Others?

Spermicidal Maniacs all...

Q:What's the last thing you hear when one of Bill's pubic hairs hit the floor?
A:Monica going phphphfffbbttt-tooie ( dry spitting sound... )

Wasn't sure how to spell that one...

Reagan: You can run but you can't hide...

Sniper: You can run, but you'll just die tired...

I'll be Bach. And you'll be Chopin!

Hiya Strad!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:11
ROR (Earl ) ID#412286:: Whence did thy defend me. Further you must understand the combining of tongue in cheek with sincerity.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:11
Auric (STUDIO.R) ID#255151:: Lady Macbeth: Out, damned spot!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:10
6pak () ID#335190:: ..INSIST DEVALUATION OUT OF THE QUESTION
Central Bank Chairman Dubinin on 30 July dismissed speculation
that the government will be forced to abandon the ruble corridor
later this year, RFE/RL's Moscow bureau and Reuters reported.
Independent economist Andrei Illarionov is among those who
believe a sharp ruble devaluation is inevitable. But during a joint
press conference with Finance Minister Zadornov, Dubinin said
Illarionov either does not understand how the market works or is
deliberately misleading people. The Central Bank head even
mentioned rumors that Illarionov is trying to drive down the ruble
in order to make money on a futures contract, although Dubinin
did not vouch for the accuracy of such allegations. During an
interview with Ekho Moskvy on 30 July, Central Bank First
Deputy Chairman Sergei Aleksashenko said rumors of the ruble's
death are premature. LB

CENTRAL BANK'S HARD-CURRENCY RESERVES
INCREASE
The Central Bank's gold and hard-currency reserves rose from
$13.6 billion to $19.2 billion from 17 to 24 July, ITAR-TASS
reported on 30 July. During that week the bank received $4.8
billion in funds from an IMF credit. Several Eurobond issues
helped bolster the Central Bank's reserves earlier this year, but
Finance Minister Zadornov announced on 30 July that Russia
plans no further sales of Eurobonds until late October, Interfax
reported. He said Russia will borrow abroad again only once
market conditions become more favorable. Turmoil on Russian
financial markets and downgrades by international credit rating
agencies have driven up the cost of foreign borrowing for the
Russian government. LB

KIRIENKO WILL NOT TOLERATE RAILROAD
BLOCKADES
Prime Minister Kirienko said at a 31 July conference at the
Railroads Ministry that the government will instill order to bring
an end to the railroad blockades, Interfax reported. Sakhalin
Oblast's botched attempt to have Interior Ministry troops disperse
miners blockading a power plant on 30 July drew strong criticism.
The chairman of the nationwide coal miners' union said it will incite
its 600,000 members to civil disobedience, including the blockade
of highways and railroads if force is used against Sakhalin
protesters. The management of a coal operation in Sakhalin
warned that such force would trigger social unrest throughout
Russia's mining regions, ITAR-TASS reported on 30 July.
Sakhalin Deputy Governor Ivan Malakhov told reporters the next
day that the regional authorities will not use force to disperse the
picketers. Meanwhile, coal shortages caused by the blockade
have led to further electricity outages in Sakhalinsk. Sakhalin's
hospitals will have electricity for only 6 hours on 31 July. BT

CHELYABINSK GOVERNOR GIVES PROTESTING
MINERS ULTIMATUM
Petr Sumin announced that a state of emergency would be
imposed in Chelyabinsk Oblast if miners did not lift their five-day
blockade of the Trans- Siberian Railroad by the night of 30 July,
Kommersant- Daily reported. Blockaders have begun to stop
passenger trains in addition to freight trains, leading to fist fights
between miners and train officials. The federal government recently
sent 9.6 million rubles ( $1.5 million ) to pay wage debts, but the
miners insist on 60 million rubles as a condition for lifting the
blockade. BT

RUSSIAN-JAPANESE NAVAL EXERCISE 'BIG
SUCCESS'
http://www.rferl.org/newsline/fulltext.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:10
Envy (Hit Count) ID#219363:: Continued my fun with search engines hit count survey/ data gathering. Resulting data can be viewed by clicking on the document below.

Basically it's just a search on the engines to see what the hit count is for various bullish and bearish phrases. Not much functional use, interesting from a trivia point of view I suppose. I believe the volume of hits decreased but I didn't do the math to see ( that is, there were fewer total hits ) , which would explain why a phrase like market rise could show up 3% less often while market fall shows up 4% less often - they both seem to be off. Anyway ...

Interesting ( large ) changes to the positive and negative were- gold bull off 17% while gold bear was off 3%. bullish on gold was off 11% while bearish on gold rose 23%. market will rise was off 18% and market will fall was up 1%. inflation is down was off 9% and inflation is up increased a big'ole 56%.

Thus ends Envy's fun with search engines post for the month.

Envy

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:10
Earl () ID#227238:: ROR: The other nite, in spite of a threat to my personal health and safety, I defended you. Went out on a flimsy limb, hanging over a pit full of 'viscous' Australian salt water crocks ....... and after all of that you have the uncommon indecency to post that bit of nonsense below.
Clinton is now to be considered a victim of a sexual addiction? Are there no practical limits to the 'spacey, new age' bull scheiss? ......
How do you react should an opposing counsel hand you a bucket of similar soft shoe and horsecrap? Believe it?

Jeeez, .... and your recovery was going so well too.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:08
STUDIO.R (@MacCLitton..........apt excerpts.) ID#288369:: LADY MACBETH: O, never

Shall sun that morrow see!

Your face, my Thane, is as a book where men

May read strange matters. To beguile the time,

Look like the time; bear welcome in your eye,

Your hand, your tongue; look like the innocent flower,

But be the serpent under it. He that's coming

Must be provided for; and you shall put

This night's great business into my dispatch,

Which shall to all our nights and days to come

Give solely sovereign sway and masterdom.

MACBETH: She should have died hereafter;

There would have been a time for such a word.

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:07
tolerant1 (ROR, Namaste' ah,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha...c'mon pal.. you must be joking or) ID#373284:: seriously in need of a duramater check...Clintler has single handedly been responsible for giving directly to the RED CHINESE MILITARY some of our top technology, a base in California, virtual control of the Panama Canal, tried to give them Taiwan, gutted our military while putting our troops at risk by spreading them around the globe and has the dubious distinction of having an abnormally high number of deaths of people around him or who served with him while being in office when the country was not at war.

In addition he has increased the control of the government over the people of the USA and has written more executive orders than any holder of the office in history.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 21:00
6pak (Stains & suspicions & secrecy @ USofA Citizen's distrust of government reports.) ID#335190:: August 2, 1998

JFK autopsy files include claims of missing notes, photos

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- Records of the 1963 autopsy performed on slain U.S. President John F. Kennedy are incomplete,

Previously, Humes, of the Bethesda Naval Centre and one of three autopsy doctors, confirmed that he tossed autopsy papers -- some stained with Kennedy's blood -- into the fireplace at his home while writing the report. But it was unclear exactly what he had burned.

the legacy of such secrecy ultimately has caused distrust and suspicion, the board said in a statement.

George Burkley, was concerned that the doctors not disclose the president's long-secret condition.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Kennedy-Autopsy.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:54
tolerant1 (Clintler and Carvetile) ID#373284:: http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/02nova.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:54
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HEARD THE MAKERS OF VIAGRA WERE SUING NIKE--) ID#431263:: for stealing their new ad campaign: I CAN! Or as I keep tellin' my wife after a few brewskis, I THINK I CAN!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:52
ROR (ERLE) ID#412286:: If Clinton is sexually addicted then he is the victim of disease that he cant control. How can we hold him responsible especially when he has done such an outstanding job with the country. He is pro social security and medicare, pro family leave, he wants HMOs to take responsibility and be subjected to the legal process like everyone else, he is for good relations with China and Viet Nam, and he has consistently vetoed legal reform legislation. He has also pledged to veto any tax cuts for the rich. WHATS NOT TO LIKE. Ok NAFTA and GATT were bad decisions.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:49
BCIWN (When Starr) ID#206298:: questions ML about the great pantsdroppers organs, she will say it was a golden rod. This will cause great shrinkage in her gold supply, thus sending the POG through the roof.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:49
AUH20 (Nick) ID#253260:: What is gold doing in your part of world? It is down .40USD in NY at 8:30 pm Sunday Nite.
Thanks in advance.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:47
BUFFORD (tolerant ******no reptile mixture please) ID#253246:: you will end up with a colone of Janet Reno

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:46
Auric (Herr CHEESEHEAD ) ID#255151:: Heard Nike was coming out, as it were, with a new line of Presidential sneakers. Their slogan-- JUST DO HER!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:46
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (BCIWN) ID#431263:: I thought that new special lubricant's trade name was PROLONG! Shows what I know about such matters! heh...heh! LOFLOL

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:44
ERLE (T1 20:36) ID#190411:: LOL and still. You be one funny dude.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:43
BCIWN (They are going) ID#206298:: to use the sperm from the dress to make a new super lubricant called SLICK WILLY. They may also use some of the sperm to clone a future president because the one we have now has been doing such a jamb up job
in intercontinental sexual relations.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:41
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (DIZ--) ID#431263:: I just want you to know I had nothing to do with 6 Pak's 20:29! No, it ain't no right-wing conspiracy! : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:41
6pak (USofA Economic policy & Grenada & Cold War & Castro @ 18 USofA citizen's killed. WHY ) ID#335190:: August 2, 1998

Castro arrives in Grenada amid cheers

ST. GEORGE'S, Grenada ( AP ) -- Hundreds cheered to welcome Fidel Castro when he arrived Sunday in Grenada, the Caribbean island that is the only place where U.S. and Cuban forces battled it out directly in a bloody Cold War confrontation.

The visit to Grenada -- a former French and British colony of three islands tucked between Trinidad and St. Vincent -- signals Castro's renewed acceptance among former foes in the Caribbean and their frustration with Washington's economic policies.

The United States invaded Grenada after hard-line Marxists executed Bishop in a coup. Former President Reagan ordered the invasion. Armed Cuban construction workers at the airport fought invading U.S. soldiers and a token force of Caribbean troops for three days in 1983.
Forty-five Grenadians, 29 Cubans and 18 Americans were killed.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Caribbean-Castro.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:40
ERLE (ROR,) ID#190411:: Am I way off base, or, are you arguing for the great pantsdropper to admit that he is the victim of some disease that can only be discussed on the Jenny Jones Show?
Earl will talk with you civilly, but I cannot.

How are your goldstocks doing? Yes, I know that it has been a trying time for you this past week, but, cheer up, it'll only get worse.
Do you advise all of your penniless clients to buy goldshares?
Watch your behind, I've got three lawyer notches on my pistol.
Go fascism, go socialism, go ROR. Are your trains running on time?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:37
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (EB---MJ's ONLY GOLF COMMENT TO ME WAS--) ID#431263:: My, what BIG BERTHA'S you have? Then I realized he wasn't talking to me but to my well-endowed caddy whose name just happens to be Monica and whose NIKE shorts just happened to be stained. Apparently, she DOES it, too! And from the looks of things, JUST DID! Heh..heh!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:36
tolerant1 (BCIWN, Namaste' ) ID#373284:: Lets inject some of the stain into a reptile egg and see what happens...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:34
BCIWN (A hugh) ID#206298:: earthquake in Japan would cause the japanese govt to sell many US bonds to rebuild. This would crush the dollar as our stock market is eroding now, and would send the price of gold way up.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:33
tolerant1 (STUDIOR_R, Namaste' ) ID#373284:: He was not born of natural methods...reptilian...egg is my bet...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:31
BCIWN (@tolerante1) ID#206298:: I don't know if Carville is scum or not.I have heard the stain on Monicas dress is though.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:29
STUDIO.R (@T#1.......Growing up down in Murray County........) ID#288369:: James Carvillian would have never seen his sixteenth B-Day....guaaaaaranteeeeeeeed. hell, his folks would've shot him.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:29
6pak (USofA Atomic Bomb & Japan 1946 @ Canadian First Nation's People & USofA Canadian Lackey's Gov.) ID#335190:: July 31, 1998

Dene Indians to commemorate Hiroshima bomb

VANCOUVER ( CP ) -- After he arrives in Hiroshima this weekend, George Blondin knows what he will say at a ceremony for the Japanese victims of the first atomic bomb.

And he'll likely say he's sorry that uranium from the mine was used in the atomic bomb that devastated the city Aug. 6, 1945.

The trip is to make amends for unwittingly being a part of the atomic effort, said Cindy Kenny-Gilday, head of the Dene of Deline First Nation Uranium Committee.

We want to express our sadness and compassion for the suffering the uranium from Great Bear Lake caused elsewhere, she said.

A 100-page report submitted to several federal ministries by the Sahtu Dene implies the federal government is responsible for an unknown number of deaths linked to the radioactive uranium, as well as 1.7 million tonnes of radioactive waste that was dumped in Great Bear Lake, Canada's fifth-largest lake.

The band has no money for its own studies or cleanup, Kenny-Gilday said. The trip to Hiroshima was funded by private donations.
http://www.freecartoons.com/NationalTicker/CANOE-wire.Dene-Uranium.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:28
JIN (nikkie down -130 ...1u.s dollars:144.75....Bad!) ID#206358:: s

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:26
ERLE (nick@canberra) ID#190411:: Have you ever looked up PENNYGOLD? I tried to post their URL, but the kitco wouldn't let me.
Try goldsheet.
The gentleman that runs the site is realistic. ---No hype there.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:26
ROR (Pretty clear now) ID#412286:: Clinton to do soulful mea culpa. Polls go through the roof and press overwhelms starr and congress re any attack on this President. He has to do a mea culpa as people think he is guilty antway.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:24
tolerant1 (Auric, Namaste' I am familiar with him...I cannot wait to see all the refuse hit the) ID#373284:: fan. James Carville is scum...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:21
EB (GOLDEN SANDBAGGER HEAD OF CHEDDER) ID#187109:: Did ya sandbagg him? MJ doesn't mind throwin' around a little cash on the ole golfiegolfoie course......or the NASDAQDOW ( newword ) either. Herr cheesehead, you must have dropped some *hints* to ole Nike-Man. I'm sure he read the tips LOUD AND CLEAR......... he just called and told me that you were pretty good out there..........but a little loud........Ya' shouldn't talk through a guys back swing ya' know. Common courtesy ;-^ ) . Did he give you any hot tips? PRAY TELL.

away......to the yard so nice in the summatime....puffing some hondurans and sailing with EL Capit�n ( ! ) ( � )
��hammockbound

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:21
ERLE (To those of you that have daughters,) ID#190411:: Would you allow your daughter to endure this?
I know that duelling has a bad reputation now, But that's my way out of date read on this filthy creep.
.44's from ten paces, lads.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:20
Auric (tolerant1) ID#255151:: Are you familiar with Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch? You MUST read some of his interrogations of the President's pals, including James Carville. That guy is a pit bull!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:18
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (C'MN NICK--) ID#431263:: Where's your compassion, Mate! Think of all the sufferin' here at Kitco!
Show a little empathy will ya'! Raise your bids a couple of notches and quit bein' so blasted greedy! Gott im Himmel, Mensch, you're worse than my son! : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:17
JIN (reminbi vs dollars....) ID#206358:: Bank Merger Likely To Spur
Realignment In S Korean Banking Sector
SEOUL ( Nikkei ) -The merger between Hanil Bank and Commercial
Bank of Korea, announced Friday, is expected to expedite the
reorganization of the South Korean financial industry. The South Korean
government perceives the overhaul of the banking sector to be crucial to
the restructuring of the financial system.

Korea Exchange Bank, the largest bank in terms of assets at the end of
1997, and second-ranked Cho Hung Bank are reported to be
negotiating a merger. The amalgamation of midsize Hana Bank and
Boram Bank is also considered a possibility.

The government intends to use the public funds to help merged banks
increase capital and dispose of bad loans.

The government notified Hanil Bank and Commercial Bank of Korea
that they would have to close down after their capital adequacy ratios
fell below the Bank for International Settlements' requirement of 8% last
year. The two leading city banks failed to attract increased foreign
capital and settled on a merger as a last resort.

The government is expected to infuse 5-6 trillion won in public funds into
the new bank. However, analysts consider about 10 trillion won to be
the minimum necessary.

( The Nihon Keizai Shimbun Saturday morning edition )

Hyundai Motor Lays Off 1,500 Workers,
Triggers Labor Dispute
SEOUL ( Nikkei ) -Hyundai Motor Co. notified 1,569 of its employees
on Friday that they would be laid off due to poor corporate
performance - its first large-scale redundancies since layoffs were
permitted in February.

Labor union members of the leading South Korean automaker
responded to the move by barricading themselves inside factories. The
chairman of the union deplored the massive layoffs, and said that
Hyundai ignored a union offer to accept pay cuts. He said the union will
fight to have the decision reversed.

High-ranking officials of South Korea's ruling National Congress for
New Politics sought to mediate in the dispute by visiting the barricaded
factories, but to no avail.

( The Nihon Keizai Shimbun Saturday morning edition )

Chinese Authorities Intervene To Support
Yuan Vs Dollar
SHANGHAI ( Nikkei ) -The People's Bank of China apparently stepped
into the local currency market on Friday to make small purchases of the
yuan against the dollar. This pushed up the Chinese unit slightly above
the previous day's level to 8.2799 yuan to the dollar at the close in
Shanghai.

Beijing has not yet authorized exchanging the yuan with foreign
currencies as capital transactions, so there has been no speculative
buying or selling on the Chinese currency market.

However, the yuan has been sold against the dollar recently on sluggish
growth of Chinese exports and foreign direct investment in the mainland.

The yuan has edged down gradually since hitting 8.2779 yuan to the
dollar in late April. On Thursday, it touched 8.2800 to the dollar - a
level many market participants believe Beijing regards as the yuan's
defensive line.

The intervention by Chinese authorities on Friday indicated
determination to stabilize the local currency market, market watchers
said.

( The Nihon Keizai Shimbun Saturday morning edition )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:14
6pak (USofA & Nazi & Democracy & Freedom & Liberty @ Cold War & Top-Secret Files & TRUTH ? ) ID#335190:: August 1, 1998

Files may reveal clandestine U.S. relations with Nazi criminals

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- Under pressure from Congress, the U.S. Justice Department and other agencies may be forced to declassify tens of thousands of top-secret documents describing the U.S. intelligence community's dealings with Nazi war criminals in the Cold War years.
Legislation to open most of those files already has passed the Senate and could come up for a vote in the House as early as this week.

Some historians suspect the opened files could cause tremendous embarrassments for the United States.

This potentially is the biggest series of revelations since the Nuremberg ( war crimes ) trials, said historian Robert Herzstein, speaking by telephone from his office at the University of South Carolina.

There will be cases that the authorities would prefer not come out, he said. This was all done in the name of anti-communism in the early Cold War.

Under the proposed legislation, the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act, tens of thousands of top-secret documents from many federal agencies would be declassified and transferred to the National Archives. Information that would endanger the nation's security would remain sealed.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.US-Nazi-Files.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:13
tolerant1 (Starr is going to disembowel the Coward Erect...the gutless politicians are all) ID#373284:: jockeying for public position and that is from both parties...Monica is merely an addendum to the 300 page report of the lies, outright criminal actions and treasonous dealings with our enemies of Heir Clintler.

Starr's document will be a consistent document wherein a pattern which started in Arkansas led right into the White House and up to the 17th of August when the Coward Erect testifies...

Wake me up, I'm dreaming..........

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:13
Nick@C (No big-deal panic...) ID#386245:: ...down under. All ords down @1% and goldies down@2%. Three of my shares are actually UP!! Dang, too many bargain hunters out there. I want a good dose of panic, so I can buy from weak hands. Goin' back to have another look.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:12
BCIWN (Along with checking for ) ID#206298:: sperm on her dress, Ken Starr wants to check ML's oral orifice for
pubic hair. That Ken Starr will stop at nothing!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:09
ERLE (Strad Master@jism spots) ID#190411:: eeeuuuw.
Disgusting stuff for a revered creature occupying the hallowed oval office.
If our legislature had any sense of the constitution they would rein in the presidency. They have no such goal, apart from the few that take the constitution seriously.
Wet Willie will walk.
Newtie is another imperialist, just like most of the other demopublicans.
The good news is, that the sheeple will recognise DC and the flukes that infest that damned place as the anti americans that they are.
US out of HAITI, JUGOSALIVA, MACEDONIA, ALBANIA, JAPAN, UK, KOREA, and at least 95 more.
Short BKX, buy gold.

BTW Strad, doesn't it make you feel dirty to read about Clinton after spending time with these child musicians?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:08
STUDIO.R (@snowball..........) ID#288369:: evidently, it was. ;^0~

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:08
Auric (Nick Of Canberra) ID#255151:: I take the greatest pleasure imagining mouthfuls of coffee and beer being sprayed on keyboards 12,000 miles away in response to a post! My thanks for the feedback, O Wizard of Oz!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:06
Snowball (Studio R Boooooo!) ID#234218:: Don't you think that was in poor taste? : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:05
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (EB--) ID#431263:: MJ sends his regards! Says you can quit shakin' like a leaf now! He's buyin' all the DOW dips and sellin' all his championship gold rings first thing Monday morning! Doesn'tknow why--JUST DOES IT! Heh..heh!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:02
Bully Beef (I think Bill Clinton fell for Monica's big toothy smile.) ID#260119:: Bill said, Monica you have the nicest teeth I ever did come across! He also said GO GOld!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:02
BCIWN (If its not) ID#206298:: BC's sperm, Ken Starr is going to have the FBI check and see if it is the attorney generals!! Pretty incredible hah!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 20:00
STUDIO.R (@monica's mess........taint no big deal........) ID#288369:: come see, come saw.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:55
Nick@C (G'morning all) ID#386245:: Market opens in a minute or so. I slept in. Didn't wanna see it. Gonna be a blood bath today. Guess what I'm probably gonna do. You know. Just can't help myself. BUY MORE GOLD SHARES.

Auric--re: your 19:37. Am sending you the bill for the coffee I spilled all over my keyboard!! Harr harr. Good postings today guys. Some seminal thoughts there!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:55
Dutchman (Earl) ID#215235:: Thanks for the information. I haven't played options since 1980. Also played futures spreads back then and made some money. I doubt that I'd buy S&P puts until the VIX drops below 20 again and the premiums decrease dramatically. I should have done so two or three weeks ago but my commodities account was in the paperwork process. The concept of low-balling a bid and waiting for it to cook is a good strategy. You either get an incredible opportunity or you lose nothing. I can dig it!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:53
BCIWN (@ Strat Master) ID#206298:: I guess there is the possibility that it wasn't BC who used the condom!!
What do you think?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:53
HighRise (MSFT) ID#401460:: Some of their recent software is not YR2K compliant, they ship anyway to meet deadline.

HighRise

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:52
Auric (Stradmaster) ID#255151:: Good to have you back where you belong. It's about time! The First Lady is felt by many to be a witch. Therefore, conception is not possible. Remember, witches' husbands have Holloweenies!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:51
BCIWN (RE stains;) ID#206298:: The other defense that Clinton may use is that he was thinking about Hillary ,naked of coarse, the whole time this sorid incident was taking place.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:46
HighRise (Regulators craft Y2K `Plan B' for banks ) ID#401460:: ``The question is whether the federal authorities have the right to essentially declare an institution insolvent on a technological failure,'' said Ted Geary, first deputy to Massachusetts' banking commissioner.

In a technological insolvency, ``the bank's systems shut down, and it's strictly chaos,'' Geary said. ``There's no way to keep track of transactions.''

Those that are lagging - no one will name them, for fear of triggering a Depression-style bank run - have responded to regulators and will likely be ready by 2000, insiders say.
http://www.businesstoday.com/techpages/banksy2k073198.htm
http://headlines.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/Tech/Year_2000_Problem/

HighRise

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:46
STUDIO.R (@StradMaster..............Music to my ears.....................) ID#288369:: Great to have you back!!! I know this had to be the greatest high... giving your gift to students!!! Wish I had been there to pop buttons off my shirt. Kudos!!! Brabo! Brabo! Love to all...M and the SuperKids...YES!!! Tell Dad Hey! too...he'll be off those crutches a wee bit early...can't keep a GOOD MAN down..eh?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:42
Strad Master (Huh?) ID#250297:: BCIWN: What exactly would BC be doing with a used condom? Hillary has already told us she wants another baby and that they were thinking of adopting. That would imply that one or the other of them can't make conception happen.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:42
EB (one more thing......but ya' know I am a k2 kinda guy now...) ID#187109:: Earl - kuston asked me if I had a volume bar chart for the weekly BP pennant formation. I am not sure why he wants it.....just ANOTHER arrow in the quiver I guess ( indicator? ) ....eh? mail me one I guess TIA
away....back to where the buffalo roam.....and the cheese is Californian...........
��

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:40
gagnrad (re stains) ID#43460:: Stains like the one allegedly occurring to ML's dress fluoresce under black light, showing up brightly. Which maybe explains why black lights went out of favor for parties about the same time The Pill hit the market in the late 60's and guys stopped depending on Trojans. IMHO

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:39
ERLE (sorry gents) ID#190411:: I'm at work and bitter.
Cheap gold is here now.
NYSE is the big pretty pumpkin that you bought for baby blooper.
It sorta' sags after the first freeze. --Cold times in August.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:39
Steve in TO__A (Glod leasing question) ID#209265:: Dear fellow Kitcoites,

Here's a question I posed to Rhody. I thought I would cc it to here to see what data we have collectively to answer it:

I'd be interested to know just how far the central banks can go
with leasing. There has to be a limit. I know they have a huge
supply, but just how much of a buying surge could they fend of
with leasings?

Suppose in a change of sentiment 10 million people rush to buy
about $30,000 worth of gold each, not an unreasonable amount.
That's a little over a 100 ounces per person- for a billion
ounces of gold. I know that together the banks have that much
on their books- but could they lease that much on short order?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:38
GungaDin (The Prez) ID#434158:: Hannady and Combs on the Fox cable network are, of course, discussing the scandal, the dress, etc... and the sponsor, believe it or not, is Instagone stain remover.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:38
Earl () ID#227238:: EB: Your emphasis on a 'volume chart' confuses me. I can certainly email or post a BP chart with volume indicated but I'm not sure that's what you have in mind. What now monsooor?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:37
Auric (Steve in TO) ID#255151:: Thought that it was a Navy dress, seeing as how it has seamen on it : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:35
BCIWN (If they find BC SPERM ON THE DRESS,The Presidents defense) ID#206298:: is going to say ML stole a used condom from the presidential suite and emptied the contents on her dress. Its going to be tough to nab SLICK WILLY!!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:34
sam__A (@ jonesy - Thanks for the Asian news) ID#286253:: What are your trades for the week? How ya feel? sam__a.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:33
kapex (Elliot Wave.......Daily vs Intrday Stock Market.) ID#218222:: Something very interesting is appearing on the charts.
The intraday wave structure looks to be completing a 5 wave decline with a new low early this week. BUT, the daily chart could be counted as a 1 and 2 with the 3rd wave to the downside just begining. At least the chart looks that way. IMHO, the market is going to complete a Wave 1 early this week, with a corrective rally to follow. It just boggles my mind how after a swift decline such as this, that the mainstream analysts are not wavering their bullish stance much at all. This is why the daily wave count of 1 down 2 up, with a 3rd, very destructive move to the downside is a strong possibility. If this is the begining of a Bear market you can take all the technical analysis and throw it out the window.
Just like a rally from a deep oversold condition, it can get overbought and STAY there for a long time, the begining of a new trend won't adhere to what the majority of most are looking at.
The reasons for this are many, but to name a few, most people are in the market. It can't rally after the dip because they did that in October of 97 ( which IMHO was the telling sign of a last gasp rally, A 5th wave of a 5th wave which is breathtaking in its relentless advance ) but feeble in that the advance narrowed so much in terms of the broader market participating.
At the end, the A-D line almost always fails, this time if you stayed long until it finally did you would have been there to the end as it confirmed the DOW until the last 5 wave advance. The Dow Transports were also going south by this time too.
Yet, we still have the mainstream analysts touting the most over-valued market of this century.
It is for these same reasons, only the reverse that I feel this is the last move to the downside for the PM's and PM stocks as a whole. I don't really care if the stock market brings the PM stocks down with them a little more, I'm going to use that as an incredible opportunity to buy more. Warren is not a commodities Trader. Think.......

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:31
ERLE (FANUC machine tool controls) ID#190411:: Here is a fat cow waiting at the slaughterhouse. Fujitsu Automatic numeric controls. They have somewhere approximating 80% of World sales. True stone age stuff. Stupid, and expensive. True scheiss. No redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Short the bums and use your profit to buy gold.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:30
Earl () ID#227238:: Dutchman: The best source of info, which will be timely, is a commodity broker. Keep in mind that they will only be sold through a commodity account.

Buyers of options are generally considered losers because the vast majority of ( all ) options expire completely worthless. In gold options that has been especially true for the past couple of years. But if you can buy them cheap ( low implied volatility ) and you think the market is going to move then perhaps it's worth the money. .... Ya pays yer money, 'n takes yer chances.

There is a common website that posts options and prices but I have misplaced the URL. Perhaps someone else will put it up.

Someone just mentioned buying SP puts a moment ago. The SP is some 70 odd points off its high, the chances of a relief rally, somewhere in this range, may make that position uncomfortable. And time really works against you on those short term options.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:29
BCIWN (@ Steve) ID#206298:: If it turns out that the stain is both sperm and ML saliva,it will be either a case of not swollowing or sloppy eating!!! Not good for the president either way we look at it!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:29
Strad Master (Is it true?) ID#250297:: STEVE IN TO: A visible stain on a BLACK dress? Does it glow in the dark? Oi Gevalt! Disgusting!!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:28
EB (Kuston...) ID#187109:: thanks for bein the ONLY respondent to my request. Thought you might like to check it out. The only Volume chart I have and know how to post is here.
http://commoditytrader.net/Trader-2.htm
It ain't that good but it might help. Perhaps my buddy Earl could post a Volume chart for WEEKLY BP......eh? He's a giver.....never a taker ;- )
btw.... Earl, the lost address is EBlm@mci2000.com
floppy it....or zip it.......uh huh.
away...to sun and fun
��

go gold.....go K2!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:28
BCIWN (@ Steve) ID#206298:: If it turns out that the stain is both sperm and ML saliva,it will be either a case of not swollowing or sloppy eating!!! Not good for the press either way we look at it!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:27
STUDIO.R (@Isure&BCIWIN&Dutchman..........) ID#288369:: Least I'll be swingin' with GOOD COMPANY!!!!! ...either way it goes, huh? G&P to YA'LL!!!! GO GOLDBUGS!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:24
Steve in TO__A (StradMaster - the dress was . . . ) ID#209265:: black, and it was bought at the Gap, according to Matt Drudge. The Wash. Post reports that there is a visible stain on it too! Yuck . . .

- Steve

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:19
Auric (R&R) ID#255151:: It's absolute HECK having to work for a living. Got a little time off now. I continue to be amazed by the staying power of the Dow and Clinton. Would have thought both would have crimped by now. I think that stocks will fall and Gold will rise to new highs, but maybe not just yet. I am not so quick to count EB out. Got a pretty good track record here. That said, I am stubbornly sticking with Gold. I refuse to become Gloomy Auric!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:18
EB (Earl..........try this one...) ID#187109:: When your options get to 500 or so ( or double ) ( plus commish ) then sell half of 'em back to turn the free trade. Then you are ready to do it again on a correction.......it's a fun way to go.......and smart.....by sometime next year you'll own twenty or so options and they will ALL be FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ( ! ) ( $ ) . Ask Nick@C he'll tell ya'. Ya never know what's gonna happen and it's good to keep yourself in the game, NO? I like to play with 'Someone Else's Money'........didn't Danny Devito play in that movie That was a good one..........�ohmy!

away...to K2 for a time...YES?
��

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:14
jonesy (@ Sam_A, Japan News) ID#251166:: http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/TNKS/page/Top_Stories.html#gen128

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:13
Strad Master (Hey! Studio) ID#250297:: Haven't communicated in a long while. Must rectify that. Give love to all.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:12
ERLE (BCIWIN) ID#190411:: Tough measures?
The Japanese are crushed already under their tax and regulation burden.
Keynsean crap hasn't worked, nor will it ever work.
That's their plan though; feed the economic parasites that have humbled them.
Public works feed the insiders only. You might as well dig trenches with spoons and fill them up with thimbles.

Earl, thanks for the response. The smartyboys say that gold is joined at the hip with the yen. I don't buy that one at all.
Japanese are a docile lot, and they don't buy gold much anyway.
Look, they've had plenty of evidence in their own backyard of the wealth preserving qualities of yellow. Yet they would rather hold paper.
What are the choices there? LDP or communist. There are no libertarians in Japan that have a voice. They're screwed.
My bumpersticker phrase If voting made a difference, they'd outlaw it, applies in spades to the oppressed Japanese.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:11
Strad Master (I'm baaaak!!!) ID#250297:: ALL: I'm back from my two weeks teaching the most beautiful chamber music to 48 talented youngsters in the gorgeous mountains of Southern California. Between them, they wound up performing music from Haydn through Prokofiev and learned a lot in the process. We gave some humdinger ( if I do say so myself ) concerts there, too. The big fly in all this ointment is that my Dad fell on a hike and broke his leg. ( It's not too bad - he does have a walking cast and hobbles around. ) Now he's home with us for the next 8 - 10 weeks. Missed out on all the gold and stock market action, but did hear about Monica doing her best to bring truth and integrity back to the White House. ( So, there WAS a blue dress after all, eh? ) Hope everyone is well. Look forward to e-mail from all my good friends. ( This is the fastest way of letting y'all know of my return. ) I'm off to do some shopping. See youse guys later.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 19:05
Dutchman (Earl) ID#215235:: Please tell me more about gold futures options contracts. Their cost, best strike months, gold price and time premiums, and potential rewards. I have some extra money I am either going to use to purchase S&P puts or more gold instruments. Thanks.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:59
sam__A (Anyone got significant news out of Asia this 'eve? ) ID#286284:

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:57
Isure (@ StudioR) ID#421269:: The answer to the first part of your question can be found in my closing statement Away to the hanging tree!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:57
Dutchman (BCIWN) ID#215235:: I, too, own a bunch of gold mining shares, though not as many as you. I, too, tend to follow the dictates of my heart and mind. Logic and the past performance of the XAU shout to me that gold will soon rise from the summer doldrums. When, why, and how high are the questions. The wallet and sweat glands can only hold on so long. But, then again, maybe we are at the bottom? When you least expect it; that's when bottoms usually appear. Bottoms up!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:55
jonesy (@ DJ, re. plat) ID#251166:: I think we're thinking the same thing. If so, I hope you win! : - )

Thanks again. -dj

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:52
jonesy ( @ RHODY -- re. manipulation) ID#251166:: Sorry couldn�t get back with you sooner. Domestic stuff, jah?

Your question ( Su. 8/2 @ 12:08 ) -- �Can you use the same buy signal for a market ( gold ) which is being manipulated in the downwards direction as you can for a market which is being manipulated in the upwards direction ( DOW ) ?�

Wow, good question. Let�s try to break it down. The underlying premise that both the Dow and the gold market are manipulated -- is this true? A lot of good people here tend to think so. And to some extent -- cf. the acts of CBs, plunge protection teams, governments, et al. -- it would seem so. But why would those with such power seek to manipulate markets? To gain wealth and power -- hence, ultimately, pure power. The monetary usage of gold constrains the power of government, imposes fiscal discipline. As you know, we live in a time of little fiscal discipline.

But isn�t everyone -- not just CBs and governments, but commercials, traders, speculators, et al. -- isn�t everyone after wealth, hence, ultimately, power? Isn�t it exactly that that�s playing out in this world market? If so, it would appear those desiring few fiscal curbs -- that is, those who position themselves in paper -- have the upper hand . . . today, and maybe tomorrow too. And if this is so, then what exactly are our allegations of manipulation? Merely sour grapes because we�re losing? If this is so, then why are we playing at all?

Therefore, re. manipulation -- true, short-term machinations by wealthy and powerful entities may at times steer a market in a general direction. But if we have any hope at all that honest money will someday prevail again, then we are not believing that the market is manipulated.

This does not take in the possibility that the market may actually be manipulated; rather, we consider only our perception of the market. If the market really is manipulated, then all that we�re about is futile and for the amusement of ourselves and others. If the market is not manipulated, then we grant the market itself to be larger than any one entity, any one agenda. And if that is so, then we ( longs, shorts, equities, commodities players, whomever ) stand as much a chance to win or lose as anyone else.

All that to preface an answer to your question: Yes. . . imho.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:39
Earl () ID#227238:: Erle: It's difficult to imagine gold related items becoming much cheaper. As I mentioned the other day, June 00 380 calls were selling last week at $200 per option. For a one time cost of $2.00/oz, one can watch the price of gold for almost 2 yrs. I haven't seen it recently but the June 00 futures contract is probably in the $310 range right now.

For those with an interest, never buy at market. Put in a bid well below present market and just let it cook awhile. If all the dire predictions are come true, there may well be some option writer willing to sell you those same calls for 150 - 160 each.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:38
BCIWN (@ Studio) ID#206298:: I am in my right mind and I own a lot of gold shares. More than 100,000. Some of us are willing to try for a big ride and sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong. And all I can do is put my money where my headand heart say to.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:37
snowbird (interesting silver chart) ID#220325:: http://commoditytrader.net/Trader-6.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:34
BCIWN (@ ERLE) ID#206298:: Ok, lets say the yen starts down today because the Japanese govt doesn't follow through with tough measures. So we hit 147 yen. And lets say Rubin won't intervene and says screw it , if Japan doesn't care why should we? The Chinese threaten to devalue, the rest of Asia follows. So Japan decides to sell US bonds and that weakens the dollar.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:32
CPO@AU (strat(Y2K) ID#93241 mixed feelings) ID#329186:: I' sorry but I don't have,.. most of the for & against arguments centre on debate the readyness of the USA. ~ Elevators, videos however compliant & tested will not operate without power....the banking system will IMHO unless there is a miracle end up by being too alarmed to deal with much of the World outside the USA ( and parts within ) .
Please visit golden-eagle editorials Russian Roulette click on the links relating to Russian nukes & power plants if these issues are left until the last minute before being addressed it will matter not one iota if the TV video,or lifts operates or on the same site vronsky's latest The first time since Noah.
( Don't be a Smuck ) not you part of the warning.
Sharefin & many others on here post lots of information and we all come up with the problem when telling friends and others the look of dissbelief and mumblings of you mean my video won't work?
The press do little ( much the same as they report on gold..for the moment )

take care Go Gold & think seriously of Y2K & ICBM's made in Russia ( and those sold black market with a sell by date 31 Dec 1999 someone may feel it would be a pity to waste them..... i hope not )

cpo-UK

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:30
crazytimes (Kitco as a contrarion indicator?) ID#342376:: Some have noticed that Kitco can be a contrarion indicator ( Old Gold and others ) If that's true, gold and the markets will rock. If Clinton makes an apology, ( which is possible since it might be the only thing to save him if he's backed into a corner ) the markets would make quite a rally. I'd be buying S&P Puts with both hands.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:27
MOREX (King Faud) ID#347172:: Where can we find more about his hospitalization?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:27
Leland (Fiend's URL Again...) ID#316193:: http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/polnation/index.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:26
Earl () ID#227238:: Will @The debt thing: There are others closer to the numbers than me but they aren't here right now.

The 5.5 trillion is close to the ( acknowledged ) total of US Federal debt. It does not include states or municipalities.

The 1.5 trillion you referred to is probably the amount of US Federal debt held by foreigners. .... Though is seems to me to be a bit on the low side.

Total US debt, public and private is estimated to be in the range of 15 -20 trillion. Not counting loan guaranties and other committments. ..... It's all so huge that I think we have stopped counting. ..... or will soon.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:25
Leland (Ten Reasons Clinton is in Deep Trouble...) ID#316193:: Thanks to Fiend Super Bear..............................

http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/polnation/index.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:23
STUDIO.R (@Isure.....of what? see ya' at the gallows...........) ID#288369:: For my edification, could you please tell me why anyone in their right mind would own 200,000 gold mining shares? Your explanation might possibly help others in dealing with similar shock and grief. You think they'll feed us before they throw the switch?! I'd like baby back ribs and onion rings and a Chesterfield. Away to squirm on death row. A G&P to YA! ( and to all my other S&M buddies )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:19
DJ (Short target) ID#215208:: jonesy - At the moment the channel bottom is around 365. Of course it rises every day. Since the chart is the London afternoon closing, I would expect the interday futures price would reach a few dollars lower than the channel bottom. However, this is a rising channel, and the exact bottom hasn't been defined yet. If it happens in the next few days, I would say that 365 would be a good place to to cover my shorts, and I will probably reverse the position and go long at that time.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:18
ERLE (jackass prognostications) ID#190411:: It appears that many here are going to buy XAU or individual stocks from wherever, when gold tanks for the last time.
My read, which is worthless sees something approaching this:
Japanese bonds downgraded....where else can they go?
Holders of downgraded paper must sell ( by their charters ) .
Gold tanks to reflect the plunging yen.
Nippon sells US paper to support their system. ( many billions )
USD crashes, noone can sop up all of that paper.
NYSE crashes faster than Gollum thinks.
Gold goes to 330.
Joe six-pack, who isn't altogether as stupid as many make him out to be, buys gold.
Then the frenzy.

Cheapo gold calls soon.
Powder dry, Gentlemen?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:15
BCIWN (Gold stocks) ID#206298:: The price of some of the good gold company stocks are at around $1 or les in some cases. RGLD, at $4, DROOY@1 15/16. They are so cheap it is insane. They can't get much cheaper. Buying now is a very low risk proposition.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:15
George__A (Last word) ID#433172:: Uo until last Nov. I used a generator to supply all our electrical needs for the previous 17 or so years. I had big 10kw, and B.S. hooked to a 20 amp automotive generator. The best one was a yamaha 850 w, they actually produce 1000w handily. Small hondas are very good, especially the em series. Its quite important to have one with an automatic oil shutdown. It definitly pays to buy quality,leave B.S. [powered stuff alone. Tri-is in the crap zone. Small deisels are good not over 6-8 hp, Yanmars are fine.
We always charged 8d batteries and used an inverter to power lights, computer,etc. when the generator was off, off 18-20 hours out of the day.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:08
TYoung (Anybody got the delivery notices for August gold?) ID#317193:: Thanks. Tom

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:02
HopeFull (King Fahd admitted to hospital......) ID#402148:: has undisclosed illness.

HB

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:01
BCIWN (@ Dutchman) ID#206298:: I played a lot of commodities in the past and what the commercials are doing vs. the speculators are doing is very important. It has been 60 + days that the gold trading commitments have been bullish The yen, t-bonds,are also very bullish. Within 30 days , there is a real good chance we will see gold break to the upside , along with interast rates rising and the yen getting stronger against the dollar. What kind of an event will trigger this, I don't know. The commitments are there to be seen.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 18:00
Envy (Buy low, sell high) ID#219363:: XAU down 35, DOW bull, DOW bear, CNBC, Analysts, Japan, Yen, Yuan, Korea, Emerging Markets, POG, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Treasuries, Bonds, Forecasts, Graphs, Stocks, Europe, Asia, Short Term, Long Term, Investments, Equities, Interest Rates, Real Estate, Insurance, Rand, Futures, FED, Currencies, IMF, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.

With so much talk, just wanted to throw in my own 0.02$US.

Equities are very expensive. SELL.

Precious metals are very cheap. BUY.

For me, it really is that simple.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:59
Cage Rattler (President Clinton said to be considering a public confession) ID#33182:: The British Electronic Telegraph reported today: President Clinton is considering an emotional television apology to the American people - possibly within days - which would include confessing to a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky. A number of senior aides are understood to be urging a presidential admission of infidelity. While the tactic is high risk, they believe that it would bring to an end the scandal that has plagued the White House for most of this year. More importantly, the White House would hope to kill Kenneth Starr's investigation into more serious and possibly criminal aspects of the affair by making it politically almost impossible for him to continue.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:53
John Disney__A (Great .. but everybody forgets the coloreds) ID#24135:: For Goldteck ..
Excellent summary .. One point you dont make is that
Mbeki is very worried about the ANC performance in
the next election .. Bantu Holomisa is doing well in
the polls .. Mbeki is also cozying up to Buthelezi's
IFP.. Mbeki himself has little charisma .. and marginal
appeal to most voters .. They have also lost the
hard guys and warlords they had in the last
election .. they became too embarrasing to them ..
many are now with Holomisa .. and these are the boys
that get out the Black vote.
One problem here is that the coloreds are ignored
in your rundown .. They are a much larger voting
block than the Afrikaaners .. and they only speak
Afrikaans .. An Afrikaaner is much more likely to be
able to speak an African language than a colored is.
They and NOT the Afrikaaners will really determine
the future of the Western Cape. They have actually
become the backbone of the National party and many of
their leaders are more willing to take on Mandela
than White leaders are ..

Poor ANC performance could lead to coalition
government then fragmentation .. with the western cape
and Natal going their own ways.. and the country being
run as a willing coalition .. I would like that .. the
ANC seems to be learning that RSA is one of the most
diverse societies in the world .. it cannot really be
run from the top.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:50
Will (US foreign debt) ID#239256:: Good morning. I know the US foreign debt is discussed often on this forum. In saving time, and money by being offline ( AUD$7/hr ) ( Thats right '7' ) ,Discussion groups are not frequented as often as I wish; therefore Apologies if I'm restomping old ground.
The media, generally, and without detail speaks of concerns with US foreign debt levels of 1-1.5T when often ( in the past ) levels of 5.5T have been quoted often here.Can someone please explain the difference? TIA

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:46
strat (Y2k) ID#93241:: Here's an interesting article...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/0802y2k.stm

I got mixed feelings on this one....

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:31
DEJ (Cheesehead and are sperm required?) ID#270236:: That's not what I heard him say. He said they do a different test
if there is no sperm and it's somewhat less accurate but he didn't say
a fluid only test was inconclusive.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:26
jonesy (@ DJ, re. plat) ID#251166:: I'm looking for a low of perhaps 360 before this guy turns around. By your blue channel, it looks like you're seeing a low of around 370. Is this right? What's your short target?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:18
Isure (@ Cheesehead) ID#421269:: I would go, but these 200,000 plus gold shares I hold , deems that I must stay. Isuretodumb tocallitquits!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 17:15
jonesy (@ DJ) ID#251166:: Been looking for you! Thank you for the Channels. Haven't looked at them yet ( they're something I've come to relish ) , but I'm sure I'll have some questions. Hope you stick around a piece.

- dj

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:58
Cage Rattler (@SWP1) ID#33182:: Post was all John Galt - I have tried to find the source but cannot find that needle in a haystack - I remember it being at an .edu domain.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:56
DJ (Channels) ID#215208:: Not a good week to be long precious metals, but the picture isn't all bleak.

Gold - Uninspiring. Had to reduce the slope of the new up channel to accomodate the price action this week. Not a good sign. But I haven't yet changed my mind that a rally is pending.

Silver - Was somewhat surprised by the depth of the pull back from the high. However, silver is still well above the bottom of the new up channel, which today is around 5.35. I really will be surprised if silver goes back down to the channel bottom, before touching the top. This week should tell the tale. ( Hope APH is off on his dire predictions! )

Platinum - Looks increasingly likely that the blue up-channel is the valid one. And that PL will touch this level before the next rally, perhaps this week. Still holding my short position.

Pallladium - Still hovering around its long-standing up-trend line. It is likely that it will be weak in the coming week, but mostly sideways. This will allow platinum to slide a little further, to touch the blue channel bottom.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:53
Winston__A (SWP1 re: tri-fuel generators) ID#244446:: Tri-Fuel generators are available from the Northern company at
1-800-533-5545.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:52
Cage Rattler (High Interest Rates and the Failure of Banking) ID#33182:: Rule 1. Money is only information.
Rule 2 The most interesting information that money conveys is that of value.
Rule 3. Humans determine the value of money.
Rule 4. Those who set the rules for the formation of money determine everything else.
Rule 5. Interest rates ultimately determine the effective supply of money.

Source and complete text at:
http://clear.lakes.com/~eltechno/ETsix.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:50
snowbird (Blooper: re free speech) ID#285392:: I reserve the right to congratulate persons on this site for their contributions without your permission. I have never critized you therefore I do not understand the unprovoked attack. If something I have said places you in a certain category please remember it was not I who put you there. Good luck with your prognostications.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:49
Winston__A () ID#244446:: There is a new book out titled
Everyone's Guide to Making a Million Dollars on the Year 2000 Crash
by David Steelsmith Elliot. ISBN # 0966407601. Available at both Barnes and Noble and Amazon.com at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966407601/002-5675888-0343830
The author makes recommendations on gold futures and options, among other
investments.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:45
SWP1 (@Mozel ) ID#233199:: MOzel- Re:
There is a tri-fuel generator Y2K believers might want to look into. Natural gas, propane, and gasoline. 9KW.

Do you have any more info on this? A URL? is it the GEET generator?

Thanks...

...SWP1

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:45
Skip (GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (GOTTA' BE TOUGH WITH KIDS THESE DAYS!)) ID#287129:: I greatly appreciated this posting! ( Also, thank you for explaining that your son sometimes uses your name to post... )

Perhaps the difference between youthful enthusiasm to prosper ( regardless of how it impacts others ) and empathy with those who have lost might best be described as the combination of wisdom and maturity.

Certainly some of us let our emotions run away with our losses; but regardless of age and wisdom, it is painfully difficult to contain the fear when losses keep compounding into worse losses. It seems that every PM rally is quickly stopped and pushed back into the pits.

It STILL is my opinion that original decisions to invest in PM's and gold stocks were made by many of us who had the wisdom and awareness to see what will happen when the Wall Street bullmania manipulation comes to an end. However, we were stung BADLY because we made those decisions prematurely. Personally, I'm unwilling to sacrifice further and risk bankruptcy just so that some of our selfish and insensitive youth can make a greater profit before this gold market finally turns back up.
Perhaps you can relate to your son that those of us in our 50's do NOT have the time to recoup our losses before retirement that your son will have to earn the difference between the profits of gold stocks turning upwards NOW versus going farther down and financially destroying many of us in the interim. It is my prayer that gold and PM stocks spike back up and rally before the end of this month -- if not NOW!!!

--Skip

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:40
TYoung (APH...I think the fear showed up Friday for those so inclined...) ID#317193:: At some point the hard core just will not exit...right or wrong.

Tom

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:34
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (WELL, OFF TO PLAY WITH MJ--) ID#431263:: Hope the course ain't too crowded with autograpoh hounds on such a fine day here in sunny Wisconsin! Who knows, maybe Michael can give me a verbal description of what it was like to stand next to the greatest BULL of them all, Herr EB! EB a wonderful putter I hear! heh...heh!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:32
ALBERICH__A (I wonder why there is no information if Monika's) ID#255283:: dream came true.
The Washington Post reported quite a while ago, if I remember correctly, that Monika wanted to have sex with BC not just in the Oval Office but on top of the desk from where the American Empire is ruled.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:25
Savage (!!!) ID#287223:: The wife and I went to see the movie Armageddon last night ( although we weren't ecstatic about the prospect, the choice of movies were 'slim to middlin' ) . The one line that stood out ( theme? ) was, ( President speaking of approaching asteroid's imminent impact ) this is what the bible calls Armageddon. BUT, for the first time in history, a species has the technology..,to prevent it's own extinction. ) ...................IMHO he was wrong on both counts. ...Just as many economists are wrong are wrong about man's abilities in other areas ( financial? ) ..in this new era.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:24
snowbird (Savage: You are right about APH) ID#285392:: For the last half year or more I have tried to draw attention to his willingness to share his timely forecasts but only a few have caught on. APH and RJ are time honoured Kitco contributors. We have others that are good but they have not all withstood the test of time as these two have. May many more excellent and knowledgeable traders join the group.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:23
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (GOTTA' BE TOUGH WITH KIDS THESE DAYS!) ID#431263:: Just don't know how to empathize with other people's misery and misfortune! Don't they realize how painful investing can be if'n you let your emotions get the better of ya' and cause ya' to compound your misfortune by sellin' out the bottom? Sure gotta' lot to learn about investing, human nature. and showing mercy to those who just can't take it any more!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:22
Grizz (Earl - my theory may be full of holes) ID#424394:: But how else does one explain the general correlation of IQ with latitude ( North or South dear Sharefin ) ? Note I said general since there are exceptions. No doubt the mountain folk of the Andes and Himalaya have had climatic selection brought to bear upon their evolution as well.

There are other stressors as well - such as ocean storms, marauding hordes, and tyrannical governments who wish to help people.

Those who must wrest survival from the teeth of adversity
either become smarter or their genes don't get passed on.

P.S. Hoards of Gold did not help the Incas.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:21
CPO@AU (Dutchman Elliot wave to 35 ) ID#329186:: I Agree with Golden Cheesehead & Old Gold and remember that yesterday was a post that BIS would buy all gold at $280 which made sense and still does. The greatest risk now is to be caught without Gold .

All Anglogold is expected to submit �500.M offer for minorco mining group ( North & South American interests reported in Sunday Business today.

cpo_uk

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:14
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR ISURE'S REAL BEAR!) ID#431263:: OK, THAT DID IT! NO MORE KITCO FOR YOU, SON! GO TO YOUR ROOM AT ONCE AND TUT BUSSE ( REPENT ) ! And don't come back out until you've regained control of your emotions!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:11
Savage (!! re: APH) ID#287223:: ALL: We really need to pay attention to this man ( APH ) ;.. although he is not infallible, he is seldom wrong by any appreciable margin.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:08
Isure (@ Auger) ID#421269:: If I am reading him right, at 35 the real bear will begin. Cheerful thought!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 16:06
Savage (!) ID#287223:: EJ: No, I'm not that Savage.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:58
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR ERLE--) ID#431263:: You bet your sweat PEE-WAUKEE I am! Ain't life grand here on the shores of the big pond?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:54
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (LET'S SEE--) ID#431263:: How did that line go? Oh yes! Effective at NOON tomorrow, I will resign the Presidency....... Who says history don't repeat?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:52
ERLE (CHEESEHEAD) ID#190411:: Your 15:29 was good.
RU a badger?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:51
CPO@AU (Pyramid Klintons birthday yramid your ID#217268) ID#329186:: It is the 19th August

cpo_uk

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:42
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (BY THE WAY--) ID#431263:: If you see any negative postings about gold and gold stocks hereabouts under my handle, IGNORE them, PLEASE! My son is desperate, and believes that the end justifies the means when it comes to scoopin' up cheap gold stocks! He should play for the RSA BOKS! Absolutely ruthless! Willin' to tear your head off for a 64/th of a point!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:41
APH (When is close?) ID#255226:: Snowball - Close will be a day when gold is down hard $5 or more, XAU is down slightly 100 pts or less and Fidelity Gold is up 50 pts or more. You will at least be near a short term bottom

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:40
Skip (Snowball (@ APH re: your 15:00)) ID#287129:: No fear? ...sometimes I literally feel my stomach aching with fear and anguish over my decimated gold stocks. How low will they go before they return to even a realistic level? ...and how many more goldmines will go bankrupt with me holding over 1000 shares of same?

To me, this extended gold bear is no laughing matter...not at all.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:35
EJ (@Grizz) ID#45173:: You make a good point about cultural differences in investment preferences. Stocks have always been viewed as a white collar investment. The exception is non-professional immigrants, especially from Asia and India, who will play the market, sometimes very effectively, as is the case with my wife's sister who has made millions.

As for me, I've been a reluctant, purely intellectual stock investor; my heart has never been in it. No doubt this is because of my background. My Dad came from a puny little Texan town and went to school up north, so he turned out as a hybrid. He partly identified with the guns and ammo ethos of his roots but also the school this hayseed went to was Harvard, so he managed to pick up a fair amount of liberal ideology in his youth as well.

I grew up in a middle-class Eastern suburb but my family didn't have much money. I went to a big state school where I paid $230 per semester in tuition, studied hard, and worked in a local restaurant to make money. What money I have now I've made working in the computer biz. I've done ok in the stock market and from two companies going public while I was there, but I ain't rich.

It's from this perspective that I find it hard to see who is going to start buying gold to make the price go up. No doubt we need new buyers before anything interesting happens to the price of gold. Will it be an increase in blue-collar buyers? White collar buyers? Wealthy buyers? All of these?

I don't know. My sense is that the average buyer of stocks must become a buyer of gold before the price goes up. And that seems hard for me to imagine right now.

-EJ

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:29
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (SNOWBALL--) ID#431263:: Quite sweatin' will ya'? My kid reads these posts almost as religiously as I do! He's startin' to salivate down my neck at the prospects of 35 on the XAU! I keep tryin' to convince him that it ain't a' gonna' happen in his lifetime, but he absolutely refuses to listen! Gott im Himmel that kid is greedy! Guess I'll have to place this site on surfwatch to save him from premature, well BC knows!: )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:23
Snowball (@ APH re: your 15:00) ID#234218:: What do you mean no fear? I'm already there. My hands are so sweaty I can't hang on to the phone. By the time I get a grip on it gold stocks drop some more. Then I pass out and drop the phone. I take something to calm me down, it makes me brave again till the medication wears off. Does that mean we're close?

Thinking you're right is sure stressful.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:23
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (PBS THINKTANK NOW BULLISH ON EGYPT!) ID#431263:: Says it's becoming more westernized and deomcratized by the day--JUST LIKE US! Ain't Egypt supposed to be more like the superior cilizations of Africa than US? By gar, somebody over there at PBS has a late night candle burnin'! Must have been deprived of a modern sophisticated multi-cultural liberal educational experience, by gar!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:15
APH (Old Gold) ID#255226:: We're not in so we're fearless. When the mood changes to despair our heads will be clear and we'll be ready pick up that phone with a steady hand.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:13
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR OLD GOLD--) ID#431263:: It's precisely because wise old gold bugs like yourself ARE scared that I
AM SO BULLISH! Keep up the FEAR postings--just what we need for a rip roarin' AU bull! My kid needs to make a huge pile of money in the next few months with which to pay for college--and he's eagerly chompin' at the bit to buy an XAU plunge to 35 should we be so fortunate as to get it!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:12
Mountain Goat (@squirrel RE: Crippled Horses) ID#349183:: In complete agreement with you... Is the media focusing on the 'sex' thing ( and ignoring the really bad stuff ) because that's what the 'Mercan people want?

Or is it something more?

I vote 'something more'... But then again I'm stocking up on ammo and food so I guess I'm just another conspiracy nut.

Regards,

MG ( Down with Clintler! )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:10
OLD GOLD (Nikkei) ID#242325:: APH: Since you have so many good calls, what do you think of the Japanese stock market at this juncture? It is holding up nicely even as the yen tales another beating.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:10
EJ (@Savage: thx) ID#45173:: Are you the Savage that I think you are? If so, I'm the EJ that you think I am ; )
-EJ

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:04
OLD GOLD (Fear) ID#242325:: APH: The reason for my lack of fear is that I only have a small position in gold funds. If I had a large position I would be scared to death.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:03
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (SQUIRREL--) ID#431263:: Ya' know--it's really miraculous that the US didn't become a communist country during the height of the GD--guess we have FDR and John Maynard Keynes to thank ( ? ) for that! I guess, in the long run, that seem to be the choice for democratic free market laisse faire economies--fascism or communism. Some choice, huh! Or fascism with a human face ( ala BC ) !

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:02
Squirrel (Flogging an crippled horse) ID#280214:: Hours and hours, paragraph after paragraph about the sex scandal.
And nary a word about treasonous, traitorous activities by Mr. Clinton
to sell this country and its people into the hands of our enemies
and the intimidation, beatings, and killings of those who threaten him.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 15:00
APH (No Fear?) ID#255226:: Reading Kitco and other sites there appears to be a lack of fear concerning the downside of Gold. Most everyone who is already aboard or thinking of it feels a little more downside is in the cards maybe 280 or to 275. Old Gold and myself agree a wash out is required. But a wash out is accompanied by fear and if there is on fear at 275-280 there will be at lower numbers. Look for a steep 1 or 2 day drop, when your hands are sweaty and have a bit of a tremor as you're reaching for the phone getting ready to give the broker the exit call....that will be the bottom.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:57
Savage (!!!) ID#287223:: EJ: Your 23:40 last night - brilliant object lesson! ( catching up on my reading )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:57
newtron (Dutch Man,) ID#388209:: Elliot waves are voodoo chicken entrails. Don't bet the Chicken Ranch without a 2nd opinion of the entrails.
This is gut chech time. Let your gumption be your guide.
Me I'm Holding rock steady on Au equities & shorting the S&P.
God Bless your choice & pass the amunition !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:56
Squirrel (Golden Cheesehead - yes, that too was the case.) ID#280214:: It always puzzled me that the growing, harvesting and distribution chain should break down. The farmers and dairymen had to make a living too. Was it not just the low prices they were offered but that such low prices could not pay their expenses - money they had to pay to bankers, equipment dealers, and others who did not lower THEIR demands adequately in response to the deflation in commodity prices.
The plight of the farmers, especially the family farms, parallels what is happening now in the American mid-west. Thus the rise of rural patriot groups.

P.S. I saw a typical bad guys/good guys hostage type movie the other night. One of the hostages noticed a tatoo on the gunman's arm. The tatoo was of the man's previous military unit. Though there had been, up to that point, NO allusions to militias or patriot groups the hostage derisively said Patriot!. Thus exemplifies Hollywood's attitude toward veterans as immediately guilty of being a Patriot - a word they utter in the same way the would spit on the ground.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:52
Mountain Goat (@'Oldcomers' RE: Welcome Back!) ID#349183:: F*, gogold ( the hep one ) , Puetz... These names live in Kitco infamy.

Yet now back.

Has Bart decided they've served out the term of their '404 sentences'?
Have they returned due to the imminent equities slide?
I dunno.

But I welcome them, because in the coming days of strange markets, any of us here may have a useful insight into the proceedings that will be of benefit to all.

I hope, as others have also stated, that we can agree to disagree on the issues without name-calling, 'dark sides', profanity, and all that ugly stuff that only serves to drive intellectual conversation away.

In these days 'irrational exuberance' my prayer is that Kitco can be an island of 'rational exuberance'.
I pray that nobody need be silenced just when we most need all Kitco inhabitants speaking to the issues that envelop us.

My 2 cents.

MG ( Go Gold! & Silver! ) ( Look out equities! )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:51
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:: Dutchman: As someone here said a while ago re: Elliot wave. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Happy trading.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:47
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR DUTCHMENSCH--) ID#431263:: What'd you have for lunch? If you gotta' choose between your brain and your gut, always choose your brain! You might have acid indigestion! Then again.......! My advice to you if you absolutely, positively, could not, under any circumstances endure a plunge in the XAU to 35 is sell half and wait till the plunge is over and buy back in on the back up! BUT DO NOT SELL IT ALL--your brain may actually be on top of the situation and your colon full of hot--well, you know!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:43
newtron (Golden Cheze) ID#388209:: You heard the one about the Bill Clinton bullit proof defense to the OJ DNA squeeze !
It turns out that all the DNA in Arkansaw is so inbred that its' all the same.
Dr. Lee say,...There something wrong here !
Marvin the Martian has buggs holessly treed on that high diving platform with his SUB-ATOMIC SPACE MODJUULAATORR & there's no way he can escape this time ! I came to see a diving act & I'm a gonna see a diving act, now dive rabbit ! Daffy Duck could extricate himself with his famous dynamite disappearring act, but it's a one trick pony . We'll see if The Boy Prez concocts a war with Saddam or an appeal to the Supremes because Starr is such a bad ole pussy cat ! Fog Horn Leg Horn, I say Fog Horn Leg Horn would say... that boy starr is so dull if it was raining silver dollars he'd tuurn his bowl upside down..., I say dimmer than a smokehouse at midnight... I say the lights are on, but nobody's home...I say giving DNA to starr is like pouring water on a duck's back he just wont make it stick
The dress is another thunder sucker punch. Much sound & fury signifying nothing, but obstruction of justice !

Y.O.S.,

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:41
Dutchman (Elliot Wave Analyst has XAU diving to 35!) ID#215235:: I have been reading Yvan Auger's Elliot Wave Principle applied to the XAU & Silver Index. For six months, this technical analyst has been quite accurate regarding the behavior of the XAU. In the latest post, Auger states that the XAU is about to nose dive to 35. Furthermore, Monday may be a blood bath in the gold market.

I am heavily invested in gold stocks. Steve Kaplan is extremely bullish. The Privateer appears bullish. Many posters at this site are bullish, or at least not too bearish. August is traditionally not a bad month for gold. Indeed, the remainder of the year is usually good for the POG. Clinton is about to topple. Lease rates are low. Commercial commitment on the long side. Trading volume is down. Y2K is on the horizon. The advent of the Euro is near. Japan may back its current with precious.

I am caught between the fundamentals and technicals in trying to safegaurd my gold investments. My brain tells me we are due for an upturn. My guts are turning down. Does anybody have insightful comments or a case of Valium to lend a confused Goldbug?

For those who don't have Auger's URL: www.mgl.ca/~yauger/wrapup.html#wrapup

Respectfully -

The Lost Dutchman

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:40
OLD GOLD (GOGOLD) ID#242325:: Will be watching for those two consecutive $2 updays. Soon I suspect.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:40
Squirrel (Out of the Great Depression) ID#280214:: arose the specter and reality of more intrusive Government.
From Russia to Europe and the United States florished
the kind of parental government ROR holds in great esteem.
God help us all if this spiral of government of aid & assistance
tightens its grip even more than its consticting coils now do.
We will truly be in 1984. The human spirit will be crushed!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:40
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Squirrel--) ID#431263:: One last point. It wasn't the lack of food that caused so much suffering during the GD, it was the terrible WASTE of food by the milkers and farmers and growers who dumped their milk, bulldozed their fruit and plowed under their crops because of LOW prices! The food problem was really the result of a lack of liquidity problem! And a lack of compassion problem by those who had it but refused to give it when needed!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:34
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Herr Squirrel--) ID#431263:: Agree 1000% But what happened to the poor Russian peasants at Stalingrad was FAR FAR WORSE than what the US went through in the GD! Eatin' hardened glue and the frozen corpse of your cat, dog or relative makes the food served up during the GD, by comparison, look like a banquet!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:33
Texasgoldpost (@ the stain on the dress....) ID#37292:: turns out to be a McDonald's milkshake she brought in along the files to share with the Boss. .....

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:30
Squirrel (Remembrances - The Great Depression) ID#280214:: �During these years people�s diets deteriorated, malnutrition became common, and the undernourished fell victim more easily to disease. Some people quietly lined up at Red Cross and Salvation Army soup kitchens or queued in breadlines. Others ate only potatoes, crackers, or dandelions, or scratched through garbage cans for bits of food. Milk consumption decreased to such an extent that Kentucky miners called it �medicine.� Pregant women went without essential foods like eggs and vegetables, and doctors reported increases in tuberculoisis, typhoid, dysentery, and heart and stomach disorders. Million of Americans were no only hungry and ill; they were cold. Unable to afford fuel, they huddled in unheated tenements and shacks. Families double up in crowded apartments, but some who were unable to pay the rent were evicted, furniture and all. Urban jungles sprouted up, constructed from packing boxes and other debris usually carted away as junk.�

I remember oldtimers telling me of collecting pieces of coal alongside railroad tracks - pieces that fell from passing coalcars. Such pieces, and scraps of wood were all that many folks had to burn for a little bit of warmth.

�Across America economic woe also burdened marriage patterns and family life. People postponed marriage, and married couple postponed having children. Divorces also declined, but desertions rose as husbands unable to provide for their families simply took off.�

Quotes are From _A People and A Nation, page 730.

P.S. the above is in partial response to EB�s post of Sat Aug 01 1998 14:21
�No offense Squirrel but are you truly serious about this storing of food for ten or more years Wow. I had better not throw anymore food......�

Yes EB, this may not be a fun time, the scraps you throw away may feed a family in 2005. I was raised by Depression-reared parents not to throw away ANY food, unless it was spoiled beyond recovery. To this day, forty years later, I still clean my plate - a lesson that may help any family I may have to survive.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:18
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR GOGOLD--) ID#431263:: Is your 3-2-5 AU call by 11/11 evidence of a true conversion to the BULL side? Or simply an attempt to restore yourself to this AUgust body's good graces as a reasonable guy who can sense a good trade when he smells one?
Whatever--I welcome you to the bull side of the AU equation if only till after 11/11! I always knew you were a reasonable sort of guy beneath all that Hepscheiss! : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:14
EB (Johnny Cochran) ID#187109:: I heard that Bill made the call..............

He will tear Starr a new one.............that is the fight-o-the-century...........�ohmy!

away...to call hollywood
��director/producer

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:11
Goldteck (Boers face the final humiliation ) ID#431200:: August 2 1998AFRICABoers face the final humiliation by R W Johnson, Johannesburg THE appointment of Willie Hofmeyr, an African National Congress MP, as an adviser to Thabo Mbeki, South Africa's deputy president, may seem hardly headline news. Mbeki, who will take over from President Nelson Mandela next year, relies on a huge staff of advisers, officials and fixers. However, until now there has not been a single white face among them. Hofmeyr, an Afrikaner, breaks that mould. The appointment heralds a recognition by Mbeki that, as one leading Afrikaner commentator has put it, the [Afrikaner] natives are getting restless. Last month Corne Mulder, a right-wing MP, sounded the alarm in a bitter speech to parliament in which he charted pressures on the Afrikaans language and schools, and looked to a future in which Afrikaners might expect to lose their universities, their churches and their culture. Faced with such a future, he warned, they would fight. Some were inclined to write this off as right-wing rhetoric, but Mbeki wisely took the speech seriously as an indication of real distress within the Afrikaans community. History has made South African politicians treat such matters with care. Afrikaners ruled at the Cape until the British annexed it in 1805. When they felt marginalised under British rule, many trekked off to found the Boer republics and rule themselves again. The republics were extinguished in the Boer war, but no sooner had it ended than the British, realising that South Africa could not be ruled against the Afrikaners, incorporated their leaders in government.The result was that even before the Afrikaner nationalists came to power in 1948, South Africa was generally ruled by Afrikaners. Not having Afrikaners in government came to seem as unthinkable as running Boston without the Irish. But since 1996, when F W de Klerk led the National party out of coalition with the ANC, Afrikaners have had to adjust to a new world in which they are just one more minority group. One reason why De Klerk got out was that Afrikaners already felt their interests were going by the board. The retreat of the Afrikaans language was a significant indicator. More South Africans of all races have Afrikaans as their mother tongue than any other language, but under ANC rule South Africa is becoming an English-speaking country at great speed. When Coca-Cola decided no longer to print the slogans on its cans in both languages, it started an avalanche among manufacturers and advertisers who were keen to avoid the expense of bilingualism and the stigma of the language of apartheid. Parliament, to the fury of Afrikaner politicians, has recently voted to print its Hansard editions only in English. Afrikaans has been sharply downgraded on television, although the majority of viewers who bother to pay their licence fees are Afrikaners. Even South African Airways has abolished the use of Afrikaans for its in-flight announcements. ( Ironically, British Airways, through its local partner, Comair, still uses Afrikaans. ) For De Klerk, a cardinal point of South Africa's constitutional negotiations was securing a guarantee that children of every language group had a right to be educated in their own tongue. To his utter dismay, however, the courts have ruled that fairness requires schools to be bilingual, for most blacks prefer English.
The result is that almost all Afrikaans schools are now bilingual and of the five Afrikaans universities, only two remain predominantly rikaans-speaking. Not surprisingly, the Afrikaner right refers bitterly to the ANC as black Englishmen. De Klerk's stock has inevitably fallen among most Afrikaners. His divorce from Marike, his wife of more than 30 years, was taken by some commentators to prove that De Klerk always lets down those closest to him, his wife and his volk [nation].
To these discontents has been added the conviction that Afrikaner men are the chief ideological targets of the government's affirmative action policy. Moreover, many Afrikaners are also bitterly convinced that the country's Truth and Reconciliation Commission is little more than an anti-Afrikaner witch-hunt: most of the policemen, soldiers and intelligence operatives testifying before the commission have Afrikaans names, and the overall effect of the hearings has been to identify the years of Afrikaner rule as one of the darker periods in human history. The fact that there are good reasons for such perceptions matters less to many Afrikaners than the feeling that they are being collectively pilloried for things that only a minority did. Similarly, the murderous attacks on their families that have cost hundreds of lives in the past three years are experienced as a form of anti-Afrikaner terrorism. Partly in response to all these pressures, Afrikaners are for the first time emigrating in considerable numbers, though this is an option only for those with money and qualifications. Those who cannot do so often semigrate instead - that is, move to the Western Cape, which has an Afrikaans-speaking majority and is still ruled by the National party. Within the northern provinces, similar though smaller population movements can be seen as Afrikaners settle in towns where they have a sufficient critical mass to guarantee the survival of their own schools and other cultural institutions.
Yet others talk of going into internal exile in the way so many English-speakers have done for years, cutting themselves off from the new South Africa as much as possible, concentrating on making money and playing a minimal role in society. The demand for a separate Afrikaner volkstaat ( homeland ) is still made by the right and has gradually gathered more support as disillusion has grown. But the government has challenged the right to hold an Afrikaner-only referendum on the subject, betting - perhaps rightly - that it cannot win a majority. Despite occasional bursts of rebellious rhetoric, the threat of militant action by Afrikaners seems small. Little is now heard of Eugene Terre Blanche's Afrikaner Resistance Movement ( AWB ) . The significance of seeing erstwhile AWB toughs begging for amnesty before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is lost on nobody. It is not just that rebellion is a dead end, but that in any case Afrikaners have no stomach for it. What this leaves is the often difficult path of adjusting to a lesser role in the new South Africa, frequently involving a deliberate effort at self-Anglicisation.
Willie Hofmeyr is hardly regarded by most Afrikaners as one of their own - anyone in the ANC is excluded almost by definition in their eyes - but he is a straw in the wind. Other Afrikaners have begun to devote time to building a multiracial forum for their culture. They emphasise that Afrikaans was originally the language of mixed-race South Africans and that the majority of Afrikaans-speakers in the country today are coloured. The problem is that with the collapse of the National party - Afrikaners are now deserting in large numbers to the liberal and mainly English-speaking Democratic party - Afrikanerdom has lost its central institution, the vehicle that for so long guaranteed its power. The bulk of Afrikaners are gradually accepting a new identity in which they are both powerless and permanently here. This is the reality, but there is no guarantee that they are ever going to like it.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:09
gogold (Thank God Poops is back) ID#353204:: I was worried about the Dow for a while, but now I'm not.

This week has been like the reunion of the Chicago Black Sox
baseball team. I want no part of the mawkish sentiment or
the pleas for forgiveness. I have nothing to apologize for
except two straight years of spot-on calls. And gold will
be at 325 on 11/11.

Further instructions as promised: Wait for two consecutive
days when gold goes up $2.00. Then, in the words of the
immortal ( well, I guess not literally ) Alan Shepherd,
Why don't you fix your little problem and light this candle.

Place your bets on who comes out of this battle unscathed once
again.

-tc, tc, tc, tc, twsmc

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:05
tolerant1 (The Hermit, Namaste' and a Sunday gulp to ya from the Island that is Long...) ID#373284:: I will say it again and again. The PRIVATEER is one heck of a newsletter.
This most recent issue is excellent as usual. And...as an American I simply could not agree more with the content...

A GIANT gulp to all the folks at the PRIVATEER...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 14:00
vronsky (Greatest Fight of the Century - Clinton vs Starr) ID#426220:: In the near corner we have Bill Clinton, President of the United States - wearing red white and blue trunks. In the far corner is Independent Counsel Ken Starr - wearing white trunks.

The match disputes the NAKED TRUTH. Winner will take all. The loser will suffer death. With Bill Clinton it would be the death of his presidency� and secondarily the demise of the long-reigning Democratic championship. With Ken Starr it will be the death of his professional career� who would henceforth hire such a monumentally losing shamus ( i.e. lawyer ) .

During recent months representatives of both opponents have been feverishly been trying to find a compromised solution to this impossible legal labyrinth - a reconciliation of each contender's goal. However, the events of this past week bring Cardinal Richelieu's infamous warning to mind:

All attempts to reconciliate � Failing that, all attempts to crush

In true Gladiator tradition Bill Clinton and Ken Starr must fight to the death - Asking no quarter and offering none. The last standing gladiator will only be given the thumbs up, if the fallen is mercilessly annihilated to the satisfaction and entertainment of the COLISEUM.

Regardless of the outcome of the Greatest Fight of the Century, predictably, the True Victor will be Monica Lewinsky. And the size of her purse will be directly proportional to amount of bloodshed of the battle. The more spilled blood, the more millions competing publishers will bid for the story.

After the 33rd printing of the book Monica Bares All into 69 languages, Steven Spielberg will direct his next Oscar-winning movie about the Oval Office Saga. Although it is still undisclosed who will play hapless fighters Bill Clinton and Ken Starr, it is an absolute certainty Monica Lewinsky will play herself.

LET'S RUMMMMMMMBBBBBBLE!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:53
EB (��HUH........(woggle-woggle)......(head going to and fro)....��) ID#187109:: who was that man

Is it?

Could it?

Would it?

Hmmmmmmmm.......

I thought the moon was looking awful funny...................

he's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

go get 'em Puetz!! Give 'em 'ell!! Things at kitco will be interesting now........or way wacky........either way it's time for a break now.

C-YA!

away.......to other things for a stretch...
��welcomingbackallwhodisappearforatime

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:48
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (BARRY SCHNECK SAYS--) ID#431263:: THE FBI NEEDS SPERM ON THE DRESS TO GET A CONCLUSIVE DNA READ! NO SPERM, NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF! Did BC have a vasectomy, or didn't he? Did he have sex with Monica, or didn't he? Is BC guilty of perjury, or isn't he? All the FBI needs now is a DNA sample from BC--a sample they could easily get from the military but probably won't. Can BC legally withhold such a sample? I doubt it! Conclusion--if there's sperm with BC's DNA on Monica's dress, BC will be confronted with it BEFORE he testifies, knowing full well that he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't--NOT good odds for those whose economic fortunes are tied to his credibility and veracity! WHAT A MESS! And then there's Janet Reno! oi veh!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:46
pyramid (Clinton to Testify Aug 17) ID#217268:: Somebody double-check me, but I recall Aug 17 is Clinton's Birthday.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:36
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR ALBERICH--) ID#431263:: Well spoken, mein Herr! Your words are most eloquent and persuasive. Almost you persuadest me. But I gotta' confess, intolerant and prejudicial and racist and politically incorrect as it may sound--I still prefer my medical doctor and modern hospital to the witch doctor, shaman, and mud hut of the dark continent discovered by the European hegemonizers! Gott im Himmel! King Leopold was a butcher on a par with Stalin and Hitler and the worst of 'em! What the Belgians did to the Congo is tantamount to to what Hitler did to the Jews, maybe worse since many of them had to live in slavery without their ears, hands,etc. Their actions are again but another shocking evidence of the propensity of man's sinful heart for acts of evil and inhumanity---yet, despite all that, Africa today, on the whole, is much better off economically and otherwise for the Colonial experience than had it never occurred. But, I confess, NOT IN EVERY CASE! This is a point that no one can ever prove and on which great minds will always disagree--tis what makes the world go round, nicht wahr? Danke for your thoughtful response!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:34
robnoel__A (Here is a neutral SA web page...Castro sees world economic collapes,Wall St.heading for 6200 ?) ID#396249:: http://www.headlines.co.za

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:31
Bingo (SEC y2k tests fail, according to Cory Hamasaki...) ID#263254:: Cory Hamasaki's DC Y2K Weather Report V2, # 31 July 30, 1998 - 529 days to go. WRP87

( c ) 1997, 1998 Cory Hamasaki - I grant permission to distribute and reproduce this newsletter as long as this entire document is reproduced in its entirety. You may optionally quote an individual article but you should include this header down to the tearline. I do not grant permission to a commercial publisher to reprint this in print media.

As seen in USENET:comp.software.year-2000 http://www.elmbronze.demon.co.uk/year2000/
http://www.kiyoinc.com/HHResCo.html Don't forget, the Y2K chat-line: http://www.ntplx.net/~rgearity any
evening, 8-10PM EST.

--------------------tearline -----------------------------
The SIA Street test was a failure: the news blackout is the first clue... the whispers from insiders in NY is the second,...check back through the old DC Y2K WRPs, the superprogrammer's grapevine hasn't missed yet. Read Dilbert, geek to geek, speak in the code of the geeks, what's really going on? The NYSE is about to take a hit in the machine check handler and HIR will be UNsuccessful. The message is, HIR FAILED, SYSTEM ENTERING WAIT STATE.

cory hamasaki 519 days now...

Also, a recent senate hearing broadcast Friday, July 31st on CSPAN, this one on the telecommunications industry, started out rosy and ended with Gary Beach, current publisher of CIO Magazine ( and former publisher of Computer World ) testifying and using the word panic more times than I can count.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:28
Selby () ID#286230:: Lets make that the C$--don't want any C4 falling nearby

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:27
Selby (Cheap meals) ID#286230:: aurophile: If the US lawyers knew the C4 was falling a year in advance I guess The Pres had better douse himself in A1 sauce.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:23
newtron (ROR) ID#388209:: Yes I think you've got it !
That dreaded vision thingy !
Holy corpuscels batman, it's Mellinium ready Algorythyum Man, making the cyber-world safe for our children. Let's see that makes, tax us to death & regulate us to death & disarm us to death & burn & gas the Waco children to death so we can save the... ...whatever !
I think I'm beginning to get a handle on your MO & on the depth of your commitment to compassionate socialistic problem solving that threatens our children.
I sure am glad we have a chap with the avuncular cadence of a Forrest Gump & a caring hip attitude of our very own Janet Reno in charge of our village children !
It's also reassuring to, know that such a moral & intellectual force is in charge of the bridge to the 20th century super hyway, Y2K bug free.
Sharefin, don't you feel silly knowing you have raised such a ruckus knowing that algor would never let anything so scarry as the Y2k bug scare our children. Perhaps you've heard the too numerous to mention sage pronouncements that ALGOR has made that will prevent our children from becoming scared by .. that .. scary old .. bug... Better call in the ATf & put some CS gas on them before they get too scared, you bet cha !
In the great WWIII Mellinium Bug Wars, Algor will be just as he was in Vietnam, missing in action, but trying to preserve his political viability while at the same time loathing the real combattants who seek to keep the internet inallienably free from censorship & government interference !
Oh Pleeeeeese !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 13:08
John Disney__A (i dont understand ..) ID#24135:: Newtron ..
Me too .. in the dark .. cannot comprehend .. we have
a CB that can create money and has lots of gold ..
why does it want to sell its gold for money if it can
create money anyway .. someone is being silly

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:57
Puetz (Stock Market Crash) ID#222167:: SilverFox: I agree. A stock market crash appears at-hand.
Based on the extreme-overvaluations -- Price-to-Earnings at
70-to-1 on OTC stocks, PE's at close to 30-to-1, Price-to-Book
ratios at better than 6-to-1, Dividend yields in the area of
1.5% -- this market is at least 2 times more over-priced than
either 1929 or 1987.

Market crashes usually take 6 weeks of topping before the
Panic Phase of a crash begins. Based on the July 20th
top, that means stocks should begin crashing during the
early days of September.

So, by late August, the Dow may decline to 7000. Then by
early September, a rally may bring it back up to 8000. That
would be the final top. A crash to Dow 3000 would bring
stocks back to more normal dividend yields, PE ratios, etc.

It's also interesting that September 6th is a Lunar Eclipse.
Most recent market crashes have begun at the time of a
Lunar Eclipse.

Anyway, a crash to below DJIA 5000, but more likely DJIA
2000 or 3000 seems likely before the end of September,
with a possibility of stretching into October.

Regards,

Steve Puetz

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:54
tsclaw (@ all) ID#327123:: Just an addition to my last post. If there were a good chance that our present Vice President was going to become President, wouldn't YOU buy gold. I sure would!!!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:51
TYoung (RJ..) ID#317193:: I do not seek to offend but rather to make you think about your approach to F*. Forgiveness is not a four letter word.

Maybe F* can not post in a reasonable fashion. Maybe he can.

I'd still like to see LGB and Poorboys back...I assume they got 404'd too. How do you do one without the others?

As Disney used to say F* was a great indicator.

So, RJ/Jujube/Let X=X perhaps your cheek could be turned.

You are correct about my posts of apology...Please reread them...note whether I was sorry for the words used or for the THOUGHTS. I still think you and F* act like little children. Maybe you guys ought to be kept in separate rooms? No, your both mature adults...I think.

Anyway, you are good on predicting gold price movement...I've learned a lot from you on that subject. On the subject of forgiveness I guess I have to learn from someone else. Yes?

Enough on this I shall cease. BTW...I really don't drink as much as you imply. However, when I do drink to much I can say some things best left unsaid...even if factual.

Tom

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:50
tsclaw (@ All) ID#327123:: The last paragraph of the WINSTON_A 12:18 post probably gives us all more true insight into the future than you would imagine. Especially as the markets relate to the future of GOLD. The senerio in that paragraph
has more probability than anything else I have seen here, or anywhere else. Now the only uncertainty is how gold will react as the senerio unfolds. My guess would be that when it is realized that the possibility of an impeachment really does exist ( which I don't believe the adverage person in the U.S. believes there is a chance of ) gold is going to make the run-up we have been expecting for a long, long time. At the same time it will probably trigger a large drop in the stock market indexes for at least a week.
The above is obviously IMHO.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:46
aurophile (Selby/Canadian environent) ID#256326:: One of the many difficulties of a weak currency is the influx of foreigners looking for cheap meals.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:30
SILVERFOX (ON THE EDGE) ID#113316:: The rout of the US financial markets is at hand. It will not wait to be another October massacre.

The decline will be led by the InterNet Stocks. These are air stocks and could lose 90% ( or more ) of their value. Otherwise a decline of 30% to 50% in the nifty-fifty stocks would not be surprising, but even that would only bring them down to historic norms for price valuation.

The decline in the US financial markets will be accompanied by ( or will help cause ) a flight of foreign capital out of the US. This will cause a sharp decline in the dollar ( it has always amazed me that people could feel such confidence in the strength of the dollar when the US is running an enormous trade deficit and is the all time champion debtor nation ) .

The decline in the dollar will set off a round of inflation. As Jimmy Rogers said last Friday, stagflation is on the horizon.

PMs expressed in dollars will surge. This will be the best of all worlds for PMs. There is little downside in POG and commercial activity is still very bullish. POS may see some more downside in the near term to alleviate some negative commercial activity, but not much.

Insofar as so much of wealth in the US is concentrated in so few hands ( the top 1% ) , it is difficult to assess how a decline in US financial markets will affect the US economy, i.e., the Wall Street vs Main Street argument. There are so many projects in the pipeline it would seem that the impact will not be felt right away. It will be a reverse situation where the rich get poorer but the poor get ... well, maybe the poor don't change much. In any event, one would expect the US Govt and the FED to prime the pump in the face of the US financial market decline ( more good news for PMs ) .

August, 1998 may be Independence Day for gold and silver bugs.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:29
newtron (Au Suite !) ID#388209:: As my oleee pal Dean used to say,
I think I gotta go to the couch !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:27
glenn (gold) ID#376309:: Well I was off short term on my warning about the metals dropping hard. We never did get through $300 since then. All the money to be made is on the short side. At some point in our lives the metals will enter a bull market but that point keeps moving back like a pond of water in the sahara desert.

http://www.mgl.ca/~yauger/wrapup.html#wrapup

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:26
RJ (..... According to Jujube .....) ID#411259:: Tom, with all due respect and by your own words, you drink when you post. I also recall you apologizing to me personally for what you wrote while under the influence. I have never written anything to you to cause offense. As a matter of fact, I recall having several very friendly conversations with you. If you feel the need to defend OJ farfel Nixon, please remember:

You are judged by the company you keep.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:18
Winston__A (How Clinton's Woes Will Rock the Market) ID#244418:: � �
HOW CLINTON'S WOES WILL ROCK THE MARKET
By JOHN CRUDELE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THINGS will get worse for Bill Clinton. And, as a consequence, things will get worse for the stock market.
Wall Street reacted with utter disbelief earlier this week when the news hit that former White House intern Monica Lewinsky was now on Kenneth Starr's side. And the stock market remained under pressure until yesterday's 111.99-point rise in the Dow. More on that in a moment.

But as bad as that news may have seemed, the situation in Washington will become even more unstable in the weeks ahead. And investors will be going over many more bumps because of the Clinton scandals.

Here's what I know.

Unless the schedule changes again ( and it could ) , sources tell me that sometime in August Independent Counsel Starr will finally deliver to the House Judiciary Committee his long-awaited impeachment report on Clinton.

Impeachment report.

Say it out loud until you understand the significance. Under Section 595c of the Independent Counsel Act, Starr would have no right to contact Congress unless he found actions that were potentially impeachable.

This is not an interim report, as some have called it, that merely gives Congress an update on what has been found. This is not a Monica Lewinsky report as others have said. This is an impeachment report.

Even before this week's deal with Lewinsky, NBC News was reporting that this document was 300 pages thick. I can't argue with that since I've been writing for months that the report will be massive.

That means, of course, that Starr believes Clinton committed 300 pages worth of offenses that can get him kicked out of office even before Lewinsky's agreement entered the picture earlier this week.

A very reliable source tells me that Starr has decided to include Lewinsky's story in the report, but not - and this is very important - wait until President Clinton's testimony can be digested before moving the document to Rep. Henry Hyde of the Judiciary Committee. So the White House won't have the opportunity to stall the situation in the courts. ( This too, is subject to change. )

The report had been scheduled to be delivered in May without Lewinsky's testimony, but Starr changed those plans. He is moving with more speed now, and agreed to previously unagreeable terms with Lewinsky probably because - as I said two weeks ago - his tired and impatient staff has become rebellious.

And despite what you've been hearing, the Judiciary Committee is anxiously waiting this report.

Rep. Hyde's outfit is champing at the bit to get moving on this matter, especially if it accuses the president of more than just sexual trangressions and fibs about them.

And the report will be more than sex. In fact, the sex part and Monica Lewinsky part will be nothing more than an addendum. Remember, 300 pages of the report were finished BEFORE Starr even knew that Lewinsky would cooperate.

As this column has been saying since I broke the news of the impending impeachment report last year, Starr will accuse Clinton of committing many crimes over his years as a public official in Arkansas and in Washington.

The bulk will be financial crimes. But Clinton will also be charged with then endeavoring to cover up his wrongdoing. ( Notice the similarity to the Lewinsky-situation method of operation, and you understand why Starr is fixated on this alleged presidential affair. It's the freshest evidence of obstruction he has. )

And while most of the crimes are older and financial in nature, things like the ransacking of Vince Foster's office after the aide committed suicide will also come up.

A pattern of corruption like this would normally be prosecuted in the criminal courts under the nation's racketeering statutes. And many of the crimes Starr will allege deal with the theft of public funds that seem to have gone into Clinton's campaigns ( Notice the similarities to the Clinton '96 campaign finance controversy. )

Under these circumstances, Hyde's committee feels that it would have a good case for starting impeachment proceedings against the president.

But it gets worse. Back in 1996, this column reported that FBI agents were asking questions about possible use of drugs by then-Governor Clinton. This line of investigation has not gone away. ( More on that when I have an hour. )

Where does that leave a horribly-bloated stock market that is already facing an economic slowdown, problems with the Asian economy, the aftermath of the GM strike and a Federal Reserve chairman who is being second guessed by his colleagues?

It leaves Wall Street with a big wall of worry - as they say - to climb. And yesterday's rally, which was engineered through some mysterious, heavy buying of stock futures contracts early Thursday morning, doesn't change anything.

Could the Clinton scandals be resolved quickly once the report is in Congress' hands? Investors shouldn't count on that. But I'll have more on that too at another time.
http://nypostonline.com/business/4485.htm

I can see the markets going down till Clinton resigns in the third week in August, and then making a very strong rally---the LAST one--when Al Gore is sworn in. Perhaps the Dow will go to new highs as nervous money seeks safety by crowding into the Dow stocks.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:14
TYoung (Puzzleing?) ID#317193:: So, the kid comes home with his ball and tells the mother that he did not like how the teams got picked for the game and he just walked off and quit.

Mom suggested that maybe someone else had ANOTHER ball...like all the rest of the kids...and maybe he was not as important as he THOUGHT.

The kid never got it because he had NO HEART.

Tom

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:11
RJ (..... K2 .....) ID#411259:: http://www.kitcomm.com/cgi-bin/comments/goldch2/display_shortch2.cgi

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:08
rhody (@ jonesy: thanks for the interesting post re. pm and Dow MAs.) ID#411440:: Can you use the same buy signal for a market ( gold ) which is being
manipulated in the downwards direction as you can for a market which
is being manipulated in the upwards direction ( DOW ) ?
Please interpret this question as a search for knowledge, rather than
as a challenge to your competence or intellect.

Rhody

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:05
MEDITATOR (Dear Mr. RJ) ID#29458:: Mr. RJ,

Could you give the address of K2, please?

Thank you for all your great postings read by this watcher over many months!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 12:01
RJ (..... All & Everybody .....) ID#411259:: I guess Bart wants to get K2 up and running. Maybe he though F spot would help, but he carries too much baggage. After seeing Jujube�s the bang up job in exposing the truth of F spot, I have decide that I would like to assist Bart in his efforts in every way. There has to be a better way than F spot to get K2 kicking.

My self imposed exile stands, No more K1

I will post exclusively on K2

As long as farfel in nowhere to be found

He ruined this place before, let�s not allow him do it again.

If he appears, I will leave

And let the minions deal with the trash

OK

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 11:58
TYoung (jonesy...I agree with you...) ID#317193:: Tom

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 11:31
newtron (Dizzy) ID#388209:: I must be the one who needs to be put to sleep because I can't see why the US would want a loan based on the worthless paper of some other sovereign when it could & does loan itself all the worthless paper it wants to out of thin air.
Now if it the USG can get the worlds' CBs to part with Gold in exchange for paper of any kind whether US Bonds Or FRNs, now there is a devil's bargain !
Still thick as a brick, I remain as ever,

Y.O. & Most Ignorant S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 11:21
ROR (Al Gore) ID#412286:: Bravo on his efforts to protect the public from Corporatist snooping. I think we all have to salute him on this. The corporatists want ti use the new technology to snoop on the public and employees and obtain private information like medical records so they can discrminate. Always remember it is the power of Big Corporatism that threatens freedom by its influence over lawmakers. Thank God for honest lawmakers and the independent judiciary.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 11:21
jonesy (re. PMs) ID#251166:: Repost from yesterday @ K2 ( doesn't seem they really want to talk about PMs over there ) --

I'm not seeing a PM selling climax such as many others have spoken of. I chart the three metals -- gold, silver, platinum ( not palladium ) -- weighted, as if they were a single metal. As of the middle of last month, right before the JY intervention, the three metals hit their lowest low in the past two years. ( Could be much longer since they've been this low; I just haven't keystroked the data going back before 1996. ) The three metals bottomed June 15 and are now rising to their 100-day moving average, which, I believe, marks resistance. That's where silver, leading the charge out of the pit, reversed July 24. Looks like we've got a dip ahead of us, but hardly the catastrophic house-sized sinkhole seen by some others. In other words, I think we've already *had* the selling climax.

Re. Gold specifically, Captain Bill @ The Privateer ( the guy's a brilliant synthesist, btw ) points out:

For the first time since June 1996, a longer-term moving average ( MA ) moved below a shorter-term one. In this case, it was the 40-Week MA moving below the 20-Week MA. To give you an idea of the significance of this, go and take a look at our long-term Dow chart. This chart also has 20 and 40 week MAs. In the Dow's case, the 40-Week MA dipped below the 20-Week MA in March 1995. It has been there ever since. This was an excellent buy signal for the Dow. Is the identical occurrence on the $US Gold chart an equivalent buy signal for Gold?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 11:17
John Disney__A (assets ) ID#24135:: newtron ..
Im not pulling your leg .. One line of CB argument
seems to be that they should sell their gold AND lend
the money to the US by buying US bonds.
But they could buy more US bonds ANYWAY without
selling their gold .. just make an equivalent loan ..
I am unable to tell the difference between buying a
bond and making a loan ..
The justification for gold sales .. whether to use
the proceeds for po folks or to replace gold with
less sterile ( ie infected ) assets seems infantile to
me .. Or is it me who is infantile .. dont answer that..
captain limberger!
Then these debts are terms reserves to support
their currency .. weeee ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:56
sharefin (Neutron - latest swing chart) ID#284255:: http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/swingdown6.jpg
And short term.
http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/swingdown7.jpg

You'd think it would bottom and rally soon?

One would expect...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:39
Ogie (Now and then) ID#249244:: The difference this year verses last year, when the market flinched 500 points, is the big boys in Washington are not blowing blue skys forever smoke up ever ones you know what.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:25
Ogie (The chickens are coming home to roost.) ID#249244:: Greg A. Smith, chief investment strategist for Prudential Securities and one of Wall Street's best market readers, told his clients to take some of their money out of stocks and put it into bonds.
Morgan Stanley Dean Witter's Chief Global Strategist, Barton Biggs, cut back the portion of his U.S. stock portfolio and said a downturn in global stocks could wipe out 20 to 30 percent off Wall Street stocks.
Stocks will reach a peak in August. The market is already showing signs of having run out of upward momentum. A week ago, the Dow posted its biggest weekly point loss ever as it tumbled 400 points and the sell-off spilled over to this past week.
The blue-chip index is down about 4 percent from its mid-July record high of 9,337. A handful of stocks have disguised the real market action since the start of the summer. The big-name stocks have been soaring while the smaller names are struggling.
The large-cap indices are going to try one last fake-out move in the next few weeks ... even making new highs in the process but Don't be fooled, it will be the last one and after this rally, the big caps will give up the ghost, and we'll be involved in a bear market that will be very evident in October, the month for crises on Wall Street.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:08
sharefin (CPO) ID#284255:: Thanks, seems to be a quiet month on Y2k info.
Last month we were swamped with info.
Now it's very hard to find some thing new.
Lots of testing happening but little in the way of comments.
And there has been a tightening of info releases.
It's like the quiet before the storm.

Same with the markets.
Seems like we've seen a few warning shots over the bows,
But so far, no action.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug. 22, 1999: GPS Rollback Problem. Dead Silence on Risk.
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2178
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Terminator technology
http://www.times.spb.ru/archive/times/378/opinion/

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:05
newtron (Dizzy, My word, by who's decree must we all be serious ?) ID#388209:: Of all things, if that don't beat all, shucks, I guess U caught me
there !
But for real, the CBs do not have any liabilities because while FRNs & their progeny are leagle tender out of the ballal of a gun, they are not even an IOU kiss my foot, pea turkey dog & don't even have the dignity of the attribute of being capable of either collection or repudiation.

You were pulling our leg with the question weren't you /

Y.O. & respectful S.,

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:02
Selby () ID#286230:: A terrible thing happened to the Canadian environment this weekend.
10 000 US lawyers in town for a convention. Ken Starr amongst them. Fortunately the winds will take this smog back across the border tonight and the city can be cleaned up on Monday.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 10:00
The Hermit (@ tolerant1 - your 01:28) ID#374232:: The Privateer is without question one of THE best newsletters I have ever seen in print. I must second and third that! Namaste' to you and to Captain Bill Buckler. Thank you for a very good product Bill Buckler!

The Hermit

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:56
ALBERICH__A (@GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Your 3:13 post @ Aurator)) ID#255283:: Lieber Freund:
In your post you compare cultures in their contribution to civilization.
It is true, these contributions are very different.
But should we really make this technological side of contributions to the measure scale of different cultures, races, peoples?

Take Africa as an example. Kongo. The part of Kongo which was conquered and suppressed by the Belgians ( not to talk even of the British suppressed peoples. )

Before WWI rubber came in demand. The belgians decimated the population of Belgish Kongo from 17 million to 9 million within several years in order to establish rubber plants. Before this, there was a socially highly organized, aristocratically ruled siciety, with inferior weapons, compared to the European weapons.
They had a sophisticated communication system, based on sound and drums. ( What if the electronically based telecommunication soon vanishes? We all would be very greatful to have this lost knowhow back! ) .

I think it is a great tragedy, that the peoples of the socalled Judeo-Christian cuture were encouraged by their religion/ideology to concquer and destroy all these other peoples and cultures.

Peoples and cultures do not need a technological justification for their right for existance. And it is not just a question of right. It is a question of fulfillment of mankind's destiny. I believe we have different qualities from the viewpoint of the creator. We, the human races and peoples represent a variety, a mosaic of devine attributes. Human cultures are like a concert of different musical instruments. And this incredible great concert is free and above of any human purpose.
It only glorifies the creator. And if our souls are free and open to hear, we can sometimes grasp the wonderful sounds of other peoples contributing to this great concert. But we cannot acchieve to imitate the original sounds of the others. We cannot. All we can do is to find our own calling, our own voice in the purest form possible. And by being ourselves, we have the chance to be heard by the others and, maybe, to fulfil the creator's longing to see his/her creation bloom.

There is no superiority of races or peoples in spite of our wonderful differences. All we can give accross the threshold of our differences is the encouragement to preserve and unfold our uniquness.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:49
rhody (@ John Disney: sorry, last post should read deposit interest, not) ID#411440:: deposit insurance.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:47
rhody (@ John Disney: I think neutron means that to a bank, a deposit) ID#411440:: is a liability, because they have to pay deposit insurance on it.
It becomes an asset when they loan it out and can charge interest
on it.

I do think CBs perceive gold as a sterile ( non performing ) but very
valuable asset. They lease it to earn an income, but would never
dream of selling it, especially at present POG. Leasing only
makes sense if they never intend to sell. They know the effects
on POG. They are accumulating gold on the open market, using leasing
to depress their buying prices. IMHO. Present lease rates indicate
that this strategy is nearing its limit.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:46
robnoel__A (John Disney...There is no questin I hope to return to Africa one day...I'am just doing at pay back ) ID#411112:: here to the NWO crowd.....by the way here is
Judge Thomas speech last Wednesday before the
Black Bar Association.....we could all learn
something from his remarks on civility when
we disagree......

http://www.washtimes.com/opinion/grenier.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:37
sharefin (For those with a few spare hours on a balmy sunday night...) ID#284255:: http://www.uhuh.com/
http://web2.airmail.net/foodstr2/links.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:29
rhody (@ neutron: my opinions re lease rates et al are guesses just) ID#411440:: like evey one elses comments on this forum. There is no such thing
as international finance 1A1 or even 4A1 at university level. We are
all searching for truth without all the info, playing poker without
all the cards. If you want my opinion ( for what its worth ) , the
artificial strength of the USD will turn off their economy as their
exports plummet, and they are buried under a mountain of emports
paid for with inflated dollars. The DOW will tank, along with
bond markets, and foreign money will flee collapsing the dollar, or
flee from a collapsing dollar. Some of this money will flee to gold.

Then POG will rise.

I turn up my nose at US imports ( too expensive now ) and have
stopped buying ADRs for SA golds partly because of exchange
considerations. Imagine a foreign investor right now who is
contemplating a flight to quality watching both the dollar rise
but the DOW tank. This situation can not last for long. IMHO.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:27
John Disney__A (Cmon Newtron get serious..) ID#24135:: ..
Thet say Gold is an asset but sterile.
They say US Bonds are assets but better
in some way than gold as they yield a
return .
Are loans really assets
Im getting very confused ..
A bond is the same as a loan .. IF
I am a bank and I loan a guy money
have I created an asset ? This
seems weird to me .. Maybe I should
take a nap.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:26
strat (John Disney) ID#93241:: Maybe you should visit Wisconsin sometime...the lake country in the north rivals the beauty of anyplace on earth. And the fishing...mmmmm.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:23
OLD GOLD (So Bad its Good) ID#242325:: Has anyone here ever seen a movie about which the critics said it's so bad it's good. That is what the gold market is like these days. The action is so bad that it actually is good. Good in the sense that this kind of terrible action ususally comes just before a final wahout and major turn.

Soon perhaps the gold market will no longer be ASB.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:21
newtron (Diz) ID#335184:: On the other side of the looking glass, loans from nothing are assets. Ergo, illogically, Gold on their books, since it has tangible worth, must be treated as a liability until it is loaned out on terms impossible to repay, don't you see !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:20
John Disney__A (Dont tell me you dont miss Africa) ID#24135:: Ok Rob .. Peace it is ..
I think we mainly hate the same guys .. Oddly one of
the many reasons I left the USA was the Carter
Administration amd the American attitude toward RSA
and Rhodesia. Reagan almost made me stay but I liked
Australia a lot anyway .. Then The Aussies voted in that
King of Jerks ..Hawke .. so I went to Andorra and lived
there but I missed English .. too hard to argue in
other languages .. so I came to RSA .. I liked Smith a
lot .. RSA lacked any kind of a leader of any quality
.. They were completly fragmented in the face of a
politically strong but militarily meaningless ANC.
They wanted to surrender and simply couldnt find
anyone to surrender to..
Once Capital punishment is back in crime will subside.
Many people leave .. BUT many people return .. my
dentist after 10 years in the UK .. as soon as a rock
spider get a little cash built up offshore .. he starts
missing the place too much.
The Government is pointless .. useless .. but so are
all Governments .. African Blacks are messy .. swiss
are neat .. switzerland is clean but the people are
bored sh!tless. I like it better here than in Europe.
I stay here because I LIKE IT.. I dont have to .. and
I would NEVER EVER live in Wisconsin ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:17
strat (Haggis_A) ID#93241:: Read your post. Forgive my naivete, but what exactly is a pommie? Sounds to me like a bunch of intellectuals who never got any dirt under their fingernails. Anything like a liberal ( as we say in America ) ?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:12
newtron (Rhody) ID#335184:: Your comments re AU lease rates are MOST illuminating. It feels giddy to a Grasshopper like me to obtain such knowledge. I too am raising cash & keeping my one eye on the AU COTs & the other for a fundamental break in the USD . The only question is the catalyst. Will it be the Chinese devaluation leading to a round of deep Tiger & Nippon devaluations, leading to a crescendo euphoric leap of the USD up & over the precipiece of sustainability, pushed out the window by Sino/Nippo Water Torture Dollar Down Averaging Sales or wholesale dumping of USD denominated debt instruments ?
Trade wars are always preceded by currency wars, then Starr Wars !
Or will it be so simple & direct as simply sinking under the staggering weight of the trade deficit & a USD that is so strong that our falling exports implode in on the economy setting off an irreversable contraction ?
Raise yoyr hand if you smell a rat in Commerce's report that GDP did not shrink in 2nd Q. Notice how the PPT revised the 1st Q down to slop the juice into the 2nd Q, so The Boy Prez could rush triumphantly into the Rose Garden flanked by the power behind the Stooge, RR, & the Vice-Stooge to recite his talismatic Pet Mantra. It's the economy stupid ! And oh, by the way, Ken Starr has me treed for the 17th.
And the Dow plunges 200 big ones before RR can get to his lap top to gun the S&P futures & buy those Orintal sales of US treasuries !
With AU they report the seller, but not the buyer. Strange, but goment to goment transactions of sovereign debt securities ar'nt discosed at all. Imagine that !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:09
Haggis__A (A Poms perspective on the New World Order.........) ID#39862:: http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/N-Q/perc/npe/

They are not shy about it......

Always remember.... you can tell a Pommie, but you can't tell him much !
They have that certain way about them....

How do you save a Pommie from drowning - shoot the bastard before he hits the water.

Och aye the nooooooooo...........

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 09:09
Haggis__A (A Poms perspective on the New World Order.........) ID#39862:: http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/N-Q/perc/npe/

They are not shy about it......

Always remember.... you can tell a Pommie, but you can't tell him much !
They have that certain way about them....

How do you save a Pommie from drowning - shoot the bastard before he hits the water.

Och aye the nooooooooo...........

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:57
John Disney__A (My family and other animals) ID#24135:: For Mozel ..
No, paternal actually ..
Name comes from Normandy where family settled after
being on the run in their long boat..
before adopting civilized foppish frenchy moniker ..
family name translated as something like bonecrusher
monsoon from the old Danish. From there they migrated
disguised as Celts to Brittany and Ireland ( but I dont
think they fooled anybody ) .

For Anyone ..
How do CB assets work For example .. Gold is often
described as a non performing asset ..
Are All CB LOANS classified as assets .. what represents
a banks liabilities .. for example
Does anyone know

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:56
robnoel__A (John disney...a fig leaf...we agree on more than we disagree..as for De Klerk you are right you ) ID#411112:: also know that many afrikaners feel the
same,in Angola it was the Cubans we were
fighting,Botswana small groups of ANC ,you
are right as far as anarmythey were small
bands we spent our time chasing them after
they attacked rural blacks..trained I might
add by Russians,Chinese in Mozembque they
were trained and supplyed by North
Korea....there sure is a lot of blame to
spread around......Ian Smith tried to and
lost trying to convince SA officials to
change thier ways ....he has a great book
called The Great Betrayal....which lays most
of the blame on Whitehall and Jimmy
Carter,Henry Kissinger,Cyrus Vance....Jimmy
at the time was pandering to the black vote
in America...Britain was pisse off because he
( Smith ) told them to shove it.......and the
UN called Rhodesia the greatest threat to
world peace.......after many years of being
called Racists South Africa tired of
sanctions and the worlds wrath just gave
up......this is also happening in the US as
we speak by the same people....lets just say
the PC crowd.....call a white guy here a
racist and he goes into a hole....thank god
for guys like Alan Keyes,Judge Thomas
etc...anyway as for you and me peace brother

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:55
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...no wonder their is a fight for the internet...) ID#373284:: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/btlines/980731.another.victory.ine.html

http://www.usajournal.com/does_clinton_care_about_national.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:48
JIN (Call for help...) ID#206358:: Riot now at 7:30 at Pecenongan
& Krekot area.

Posted by indo911 on Saturday, 1 August 1998, at 6:50 a.m.

Avoid Pecenongan and Krekot area. Now, at 7:30 there is a riot by
trishaw drivers. Tell your family & friends to avoid the area. Just for
precaution

indo911

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:39
JIN (For you...Golden Cheesehead!INDONESIA UPDATES SITE!) ID#206358:: Golden cheesehead,

This is the site quite popular around the region now!
Go to,BULLETIN BOARD....: http://www.huaren.org/
Happy trading....

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:17
CPO@AU (sharefin (Earl) I can't beleive my eyes ID # 284253 00:57) ID#329186:: I share your disbelief ( ( the Blinkered ) Professors Gordon & Loeb ) I spotted these clowns comment s in Fridays Electronic FT and was taken aback ( did post the details then )
ANYBODY Politician or otherwise claims that there is international cooperation over Y2K ( and the full utilisation of the resources ) has to be nuts ( or paid off in fiat money )
If there were international coooperation we would long ago have delayed or abandoned The Euro and released these IT skills currently wasted on the Euro convertion.

Let me see sweden ponders Nuclear shutdown lets immagine we are August 1999 just for a moment How many countries will be doing the same.The remaining fear will be Weapons systems default launches etc who will back down and disarm ICBM's ...........maybe i shall curl up with a bottle of single malt.......

I enjoy your posts take care

Go gold ( and nuke bunkers )

cpo_UK

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:15
JIN (3,2,1,0,...next-0.5,-1,-2....) ID#206358:: http://www.bloomberg.com/@@qwf8WAcAVuKL9diW/bbn/topww1.html>http://www.bloomberg.com/@@qwf8WAcAVuKL9diW/bbn/topww1.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:14
rhody (@ all: After being out of town for a day, I see the consensus in) ID#411440:: universally bearish short term for POG. Yup. The most bearish
sentiment was POG = zero, as it would be outlawed and money would
be not flat, but electronic ( e-money ) . The next most bearish post
was for POG of $US255. This emplies a further 10-11% RISE is the
US dollar. I have heard estimates that the USD is already 25-30%
overvalued now. If 30% overvaluations of the USD is shutting down
US exports, how do you think a 40% overvaluation would be received?
So I don't think we will see 255 gold. I do think we will see a
retest of the old 278 low, with lease rates at .5% and no where to
go but up. The up bounce could be sharp as the short overhang is
now the proportions of a Mtn Everest, where previously it had been
a Matterhorn. Wish I kept more powder dry, but I'm in at the old
low so its not so bad.

This puts me in the OLD GOLD prediction camp. Gold may new low
to 275 to 280 but the BIS will buy all gold below 280, so that's
the bottom ( again ) . IMHO I am tempted to sell out my equities,
except I expect the rebound from these levels could be vertical.

If gold gold does go below 275, then that verifies a crash into a
deflation, and I really can't believe the powers that be want that.
This is why I think the BIS buys all gold below 280.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:11
Mr. Mick (Privacy of Transactions........................) ID#345321:: Privacy Ground Rules Are Changing

By LAURIE ASSEO Associated Press Writer

TORONTO ( AP ) -- Watch out when you're walking or driving in public,
using your credit card or perhaps buying fast food -- a video camera,
computer or audio recorder may be keeping track of what you do.

Modern surveillance and computer technology may not be George
Orwell's all-seeing Big Brother, but they are creating conflicts between
Americans' desire for safety and for privacy, lawyers at the American
Bar Association's annual meeting say.

``We live in a world in which technology makes us safer in some ways ...
and makes us more exposed,'' George Washington University law
professor Stephen Saltzburg said Saturday. But he said the danger is that
``every single device that we create will fall into the wrong hands and be
used against us.''

Businesses have used video cameras for years to record criminals in the
act; now the cameras are being used on some city streets to catch people
who run red lights.

Some stores might use listening devices to track their employees'
performance, but they also may wind up recording customers' personal
conversations.

Camera surveillance in public places is perfectly legal, said Washington,
D.C., lawyer James Falk Sr., who chairs a Justice Department panel on
the use of technology for public safety.

``What happens in public places does not have a reasonable expectation
of privacy,'' Falk said, predicting that closed-circuit television cameras in
high-crime areas will become more common.

His son, James Falk Jr., said some employers use television cameras in
the workplace to monitor employees' work and prevent theft.

``It has value without being intrusive,'' the younger Falk said. But he
added that what is reasonable monitoring in general work areas would
not be reasonable in locker room or restrooms.

``I want to thank George Orwell for having the depth and foresight to
plan my career,'' jested Richard Chace of the Security Industry
Association, a trade group that promotes closed-circuit television security
systems.

But even though use of such cameras in public is legal, Chace cautioned
that communities should consider whether they need or want it.

``It is about understanding what is the appropriate use of technology,'' he
said.

The biggest threat to Americans' privacy is the huge computer databases
that keep track of credit card transactions, medical records and other
information about people's private lives, said George B. Trubow, a
professor at John Marshall Law School in Chicago.

``That system remembers what you're doing even when you can't even
remember it yourself,'' Trubow said. ``If Orwell could focus on the
database personal information I imagine he would be spinning in his grave
like a top.''

The White House on Friday announced a series of new steps to protect
Americans' privacy, and threatened new federal laws to cover companies
that use high-tech databases to build elaborate profiles on customers.
Vice President Al Gore warned that if those companies don't protect the
information adequately, the administration would consider ``other
means,'' such as new laws.

The Federal Trade Commission previously has urged Congress to
consider tough new laws if the database industry doesn't develop
sufficient privacy guidelines by year's end.

And the FTC's end-of-the-year deadline may even be too late. Tough
new privacy rules by the European Union governing the collection and
exchange of personal data about European citizens go into effect Oct.
25. The laws will affect American companies doing business
internationally.

At the lawyers' convention, Don Haines, until recently a privacy expert
for the American Civil Liberties Union, warned of new technologies and
those yet to come.

A new device that detects human electromagnetic radiation would allow
police to know someone was carrying a gun without frisking them. For
that matter, Haines said, it also would disclose whether someone was
wearing a medical device such as a colostomy bag.

As technology changes, Haines said might could be argued that people's
reasonable expectation of privacy will diminish.

Saltzburg cautioned, ``We should never forget that the people called
upon to handle the technologies are just like us.''

``They will err ... they will snoop,'' Saltzburg said.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:10
JIN (Asia market's review.....) ID#206358:: Friday July 31, 5:24 am Eastern Time

ASIA MARKETS-Regional currencies ease,stocks
mixed

SINGAPORE, July 31 ( Reuters ) - Asian currencies ended the month on a softer note, with
traders here still looking at dollar/yen for direction.

Stocks were mixed with the overnight rise on Wall Street boosting some while others were hit
by domestic factors and end-month profit-taking.

WEAKER YEN HITS REGIONAL CURRENCIES

And that weak yen is keeping pressure on the downside, although month-end position squaring
is providing some support.

Japan's new prime minister, Keizo Obuchi, said on Friday he had appointed former senior
financial diplomat Toyoo Gyohten as a special adviser to the cabinet to help explain the nation's
financial policies to the world.

He also said the implementation of six trillion yen in tax cuts and a 10 trillion yen extra budget,
which he had previously called for, was a promise to the Japanese people.

And he wanted to implement tax cuts as quickly as possible and reckoned the Japanese
economy would recover in one to two years, he said.

Dollar/yen firmed amid speculation that the new Japanese government was adopting a ``benign
neglect'' stance on the yen.

Japan's new finance minister, Kiichi Miyazawa, said the yen and stock prices were basically
best left to the market.

Some position adjustments did help support some of the regionals but with the exception of the
won, Asian currencies were easier.

RUPIAH WILTS DESPITE NEW AID

The rupiah sagged despite some bullish news that international donors had promised new loans
of $7.9 billion in aid by March.

Most of the bullish news had already been priced in earlier this week.

This amount comes in addition to a recent six billion dollar loan package from the IMF.

The aid is expected to support the local currency and many analysts say the official target of
10,000 per dollar looks attainable.

CHINA SUPPORTS THE YUAN

The People's Bank of China, the central bank, intervened to support the yuan.

Dealers said the central bank bought the yuan at the key 8.2800 level, helping the local unit
close at 8.2799 per dollar, little changed from Thursday's close.

``The yuan faced fresh pressure on Friday due to renewed falls in the yen,'' one dealer said.
``This triggered intervention by the central bank to support the local unit.''

Weakness in the yen has sparked fears that China may be forced to devalue the yuan, dealers
said.

RINGGIT FALLS AGAIN

In Malaysia, the ringgit is a little softer in thin trade as most commercials have covered their
month-end requirements.

Dealers said talk of possible snap elections there did nothing to stir the market.

Information Minister Mohamad Rahmat told political parties in the ruling coalition to prepare
for a snap poll to ensure their mandate in tackling the country's economic woes.

Malaysia appeared to be heading towards early polls or a cabinet reshuffle to clip the wings of
Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's deputy, Anwar Ibrahim, market analysts and politicians
said.

They said that the possibility of general elections was high, but Mahathir might opt for shuffling
Anwar out of the finance portfolio while letting him keep the deputy premiership.

Analysts said the recall of former finance minister Daim Zainuddin into the cabinet in June as
minister of special functions had undercut Anwar's position as finance minister.

SINGAPORE DOLLAR SINKS

In neighbouring Singapore, the local dollar also eased as jitters over commercial banks' huge
exposure to defaulting borrowers grew.

Some traders also expressed concern about growing tensions with Malaysia over the shifting of
railway immigration operations to a new station.

KOREAN WON BUCKS TREND AGAIN

The won firmed on month-end exporter dollar sales with the market shrugging off the yen's
renewed weakness.

Buying by overseas investors wanting to purchase the host of Korean assets that are on sale at
the moment also helped keep the won firm.

U.S. Deputy Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers said the worst was over for South Korea
although further reforms were still needed.

``The haemorrhaging has been stanched... I believe we have seen very important progress,''
Summers told reporters at an event organised by the U.S. Overseas Private Investment Corp
trade agency.

But he added: ``There is very hard work to do, particularly in the financial sector and in
carrying out structural reform.''

But further reforms are likely to stir up the existing labour problems in the country.

THAI STOCKS LOSE EARLY GAINS

Thai stocks lost early gains and the baht was lower in late trading.

The Labour Ministry said Thai unemployment has reached 2.2 million and the situation is bound
to get worse with the current economic crisis.

It said 320,000 people had lost their jobs because of collapsing businesses and layoffs,
970,000 were seasonally unemployed and 480,000 were new graduates unable to find jobs.

But the figure differs with the Thai National statistics Office, which said recently that
unemployment had hit 2.7 million in a work force of 30 million.

Asia stock markets started out broadly firmer on Wall Street's overnight bounce but concerns
on the weak yen are creeping in.

Thailand announced a June balance of payments deficit of $808 million but a May trade surplus
of $949 million.

Thai foreign reserves at July 24 totalled $27.5 billion.

Currencies.....

Change on the day... FRI 31 0921.GMT.

Currency....Latest.......Prev Close.....Pct Move

Ringgit.....4.14...........4.12...........-0.48%

Rupiah......12825.00.......12975.00........1.17%

Baht........40.85..........40.67..........-0.44%

Peso........41.98..........41.99...........0.02%

Sing Dlr....1.73...........1.71...........-0.96%

Taiwan Dlr..34.37..........34.33..........-0.11%

Korean Won..1229.00........1232.00.........0.24%

.....

.....

Change since start of Asia crisis.....

Currency....Latest.......July '97.......Pct Move

Ringgit.....4.14...........2.52.........-39.13%

Rupiah......12825.00.......2432.00......-81.04%

Baht........40.85..........25.90........-36.60%

Peso........41.98..........26.50........-36.87%

Sing Dlr....1.73...........1.43.........-17.17%

Taiwan Dlr..34.37..........27.75........-19.26%

Korean Won..1229.00........842.00.......-31.49%

*************************************************

STOCK MARKETS.....

Change on the day... FRI 31 0921.GMT.

Market......Current....Prev Close...Pct Move

Indonesia....481.72......482.69......-0.2%

Malaysia.....402.65......389.53.......3.4%

Philippines..1607.61.....1613.50.....-0.4%

Singapore....1064.20.....1059.53......0.4%

Thailand.....265.04......266.74......-0.6%

Hong Kong....7936.20.....7906.16......0.4%

Japan........16378.97....16201.60.....1.1%

Taiwan.......7653.51.....7730.43.....-1.0%

Korea........343.33......344.91......-0.5%

.....

.....

Change since start of Asia crisis.....

Market......Current....July '97.......Pct Move

Indonesia....481.72......731.00......-34.1%

Malaysia.....402.65......1230.00.....-67.3%

Philippines..1607.61.....2815.00.....-42.9%

Singapore....1064.20.....1981.00.....-46.3%

Thailand.....265.04......569.00......-53.4%

Hong Kong....7936.20....15055.00.....-47.3%

Japan........16378.97....20000.00....-18.1%

Taiwan.......7653.51.....9000.00.....-15.0%

Korea........343.33......770.00......-55.4%

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 08:07
Mr. Mick (Good news in Russia..........................) ID#345321:: IMF: Russia Making Progress

By JUDITH INGRAM Associated Press Writer

MOSCOW ( AP ) -- Russia has made progress in getting its budget in
order and must keep improving if it wants the International Monetary
Fund to release the next installment of a multibillion-dollar loan, a top
IMF official said Saturday.

Stanley Fischer, the IMF's first deputy managing director, told
reporters that the Russian government had improved its revenue
collection and controls over spending -- so far.

``Complacency must be avoided. A lot of work must be done in the
coming weeks and months,'' Fischer said after two days of meetings in
Moscow.

Fischer's visit -- less than three weeks after the IMF-led, $22.6 billion
bailout was announced -- signaled the international financial
community's determination to keep pressure on Russia's government to
streamline the economy and raise revenue.

A package of laws and decrees that went into effect Saturday,
including changes to customs rates and value-added taxes, is expected
to raise more than $17 billion next year, the ITAR-Tass news agency
reported.

``The program is so important that I thought it would be useful to
discuss what has been happening with the government,'' Fischer told
reporters.

Russia has already received $4.8 billion of the IMF portion of the
package. The fund will decide on releasing the next portion in
September.

``July testifies to good progress and if things continue to go that way. A
positive decision can be expected from the ( IMF ) council of directors
on extending Russia the second tranche,'' Fischer said.

Russian tax chief Boris Fyodorov said Friday that the government had
collected $80.6 million more in July taxes than the $1.8 billion it
collected in June. It expects to collect $1.9 billion in August, he said.

On Saturday, Fischer met with Prime Minister Sergei Kiriyenko on
Friday and with Finance Minister Mikhail Zadornov and Deputy Prime
Minister Anatoly Chubais, Russia's liaison with international lending
organizations.

Fischer and Kiriyenko agreed Friday that the austerity program should
lead to stability, the government's press service said.

Chubais also expressed confidence on Saturday, saying ``I'm calm
about Russia, even though one should never calm down.''

In addition to raising tax revenues, the economic program is intended to
persuade international lenders that Russia is serious about grappling
with the crisis.

President Boris Yeltsin was forced to introduce by decree some
reforms that the Communist-dominated parliament refused to pass.

Also Saturday, the government said the natural gas giant, Gazprom,
Russia's largest company and one of its biggest tax-dodgers, had paid
its July tax bill of $40 million.

However, the government has not yet paid $96.7 million its agencies
owe the gas monopoly for last month, Gazprom head Rem Vyakhirev
said, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 07:53
Mr. Mick (Wishful Thinking in Indonesia...................) ID#345321:: Indonesia Predicts 3-Year Recovery

JAKARTA, Indonesia ( AP ) -- New President B.J. Habibie said he
needs three years to restore the economic growth levels Indonesia had
achieved before being hit by the worst economic crisis in three
decades.

Habibie likened Indonesia's economy to an airplane that has been
flying at a low altitude. He said the plane will begin to climb by
September next year toward the height it had reached before the
currency crisis that began in July.

``In order to reach that position, I need three years until September
2002,'' Habibie was quoted as saying Sunday by the daily Kompas.

Habibie took power after his predecessor Suharto quit May 21 amid
widespread student-led protests against his 32-year authoritarian rule.

Habibie denied allegations that he was still controlled by Suharto, citing
new policies to increase transparency and help small scale industries.

``I'm not a puppet,'' he said, adding that Suharto's regime had made
security its first priority.

Critics have accused Habibie of just continuing policies set in place by
Suharto who had picked Habibie to lead the country's technology
industries in 1970.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 07:41
Carl (Lead editorial in NYTimes today on Y2K) ID#341189:: August 2, 1998

The Millennium Bug Looms

Fear of chaos in the world's computer systems in the year 2000 may
be hard for most people to take seriously. The temptation is to
assume that since technicians created the problem, technicians can solve
it. But with only 516 days until the fateful turnover, it is clear that the
United States is not moving fast enough to fix its computers or prepare for
significant disruptions. Instead of addressing a potential crisis, many
leaders in business and government are complacent, declining to act for
fear of lawsuits or engaging in political fights. Their lack of attention could
be crippling.

The so-called millennium bug arises from chips and software coded to
mark the years with only two digits. If not adjusted by Jan. 1, 2000,
myriad systems will roll over like the odometer on an old Chevy, as
Wired magazine put it, effectively thinking they had just jumped back to
the year 1900. No one is sure what will happen. The breakdowns could
be minor, or they could disable everything from air traffic control systems
to financial networks, power grids, hospitals and home appliances. Some
economists warn of a global recession.

It makes sense to prepare for the worst. The Federal Government has
made progress but is far behind in upgrading air traffic systems,
Medicare, the Pentagon and other sectors. In addition, a petty budget
dispute between the House and Senate has blocked $3 billion in
emergency funds to speed up the process. A major problem is that even if
the Federal Government is in perfect shape, its systems could become
impaired by interacting with state and local governments, where potential
problems are rampant. Similarly, big businesses could fix their own
systems only to have them break down by contact with noncompliant
customers, clients and suppliers at home and overseas. The Securities and
Exchange Commission is actively monitoring efforts to root out problems
throughout the financial industry, but much more needs to be done.

President Clinton has belatedly stepped up the Federal campaign to
increase public awareness by establishing a Council on Year 2000
Conversion, but he and Al Gore, the First Technophile, should do even
more. They and sympathetic members of Congress should win passage of
legislation to encourage companies to share information with one another,
disclose problems to the public and move more aggressively to correct
them. At present, many businesses are afraid to act out of fear that any
corrective efforts that fell short would simply invite lawsuits charging that
they knew their systems were flawed.

If the millennium bug problem were simply a matter of software, it would
be bad enough. But experts say the most dangerous aspect of the
problem is that so many systems -- from missiles to natural-gas pipelines
to hospital equipment -- rely on billions of tiny chips embedded where
they would have to be found by engineers and reprogrammed or
replaced. Congress should consider tax incentives or subsidies to
encourage businesses to identify vulnerabilities and recruit professionals,
including retired people.

It may well be that all these problems can be managed. But experts
recommend that employees ask their bosses about what is being done to
get ready. If the answer is that there is nothing to worry about, it is time to
start worrying. It will cost billions to fix potential problems. But that is
nothing compared to what it will cost if the fears of many experts prove
correct.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 06:20
aurator (Aint nothing so boring as ...) ID#255284:: the sight of an aur@tor miming on a chat line, I mean discussion group, Go Gold. Thanks Bart.

nytol�Teddo.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 06:15
aurator () ID#255284:: It has taken me a scant 2 hours to note, grok and laugh at your 04:25, mozel, things are improving chez moi, indeedy.

Bring on the next ice age. How shall we call it Freddie? What comes after G�nz?

Akshully, if that murdering sodomite Cecil Rhodes can have a country named after him, I should like very much if the next ice age was named after mois. Who do I have to pay off? D�negold-wise?

��r@t�rat�rat�ra

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 06:05
aurator (Elvis Costello) ID#255284:: indectable? indectable? I mean indetectable.

watching the detectives...

Umm, I heard that the Church of Elvis was the fastest growing church in merka....

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:58
aurator (diamonds in the rough) ID#255284:: Nicodemus
I hope your diamond was bought before fracture-filled technology. THere are millions of diamonds on the market that will explode under heat because of the fracture fill that is, I am told, for all intents and purposes, indectable without destruction.

loupe_aur@tor

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:53
newtron (Blooper @ GOLLUM @ DIZ) ID#335184:: Maybe that tradeable rally you are predicting on the DOW from 8300 to 8700 Aug 21 to 28 will be the result of The Boy Prez refusing to testiyfy & announcing his footdragging appeal up the ladder to the Supremes OR a false relief rally put out by the PPT that he passed the peril of purgery with flying colors !

KAYCERACERA !

Gollum & Bloop, we watch Sharefin's swing chart together, You bet your sweet bippy !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

PS

We're not getting that pre-crash bounce in PM stocks so this can't be 87 !

TALLY HO !

PSS
DIZ,
What in heaven's name does Mini-Mouse say re those itchey uppin wave bones ?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:38
Earl () ID#227238:: Nicodemus: That's not fair test. You didn't crush it. .... {:- )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:32
Earl () ID#227238:: Salty: Don't really set out to find them. Hell, they're unavoidable. But, mostly it's a matter of familial background. The maternal branch contains ( still ) a nest of the most loathesome kind. I can never forget the bastards. ...... Preening self rightousness and hollow sanctimony are just too tempting a target, I guess.

Mencken once said: Even a Methodist, I don't hate; after I meet his wife. He was being kind. ..... More in an email.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:16
aurator () ID#255284:: Earl
Agree, 'Tis time we knighted John Crapper, whose facilities have,perhaps, borne the greatest thoughts of our civilisation.
Why, Earl, when you bait your hook to you keep on catching christians? I hope you catch-and-release to ensure there's some left over for us sportsmen who follow you.

Grizz
Malinowski--/Levi Strauss/ Karl Marx/ Pitt Rivers. Margaret Mead, read these anthropologists, or better yet, travel outside merka yourselves
As to the geographical cultural determinism mooted here amongst us, oh, c'mon, there are 3 times more matrinilineal societies as patrilineal, any conclusions drawn are ethnocentric.

ps just saw a doco on TV about Japan's oldest twins, 106 years old today. Their names in English were translated as Silver and Gold

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:09
Nicodemus (Just took Earl's sudjestion.... Cheked the resistance of a diamond...) ID#335379:: Hello:
Just ran my wedding band diamonds through my Ohm meter.
at less than .25mm, got more than 20,000,000 Ohms. Thats as high as the meter goes. If memory serves Diamond is an excellent insulator.
Nicodemus

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:08
mozel (@Y2K) ID#153102:: There was a misinterpretation of Senator Bennet's words regarding Y2K. He was saying that Congress will prepare the government for Y2K by enacting legislation for the public safety and martial law in that context implies a suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. Since ex parte Milligan, trial by military authority has not been authorized by law so long as the civil courts are open and functioning. But, if Congress closes them, well then ... there would be a long line of petitioners at the door of the Supreme Court which would be the only court still open. ( Congress cannot shut it down because it exists by authority of the Constitution itself. )

You see, since Johnson opposed the Reconstruction Acts which imposed martial law on the southern states after organized resistance had ceased and missed impeachment by one vote for doing so, Congress has been grasping for absolute power. And Presidents who don't appear to know that have a lot of difficulty. The Special Prosecutor has Clinton cornered. Apparently, Congress does not trust Clinton to carry out as it would wish the Executive Orders which Congress authorized him to issue.

As you know, I think I ought to be headed to Costa Rica. By flesh and blood we are made hostage to fortune willy nilly.

There is a tri-fuel generator Y2K believers might want to look into. Natural gas, propane, and gasoline. 9KW.

How bad could it be ?

Think of it this way. From FDR's inauguration until after his death the 1930's equivalent of FEMA was running the country. National Recovery Act, etc. And nothing got better. Until the troops came home with all that captured gold. For the nation to spend. Hence the peak prosperity of the 50's and downhill since then. We've been operating on gold vapor and hot air since 1972.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 05:04
sharefin (Roleigh Martin & Ed Yourdon - live on real audio) ID#284255:: http://www.lauralee.com/archive/07_11_98.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:59
Nicodemus (Diamonds@SWP1) ID#335379:: Hello SWP1:
Diamond material is highly thermaly conductive and electrically insulative.
The trick is to get the diamond into a shape and form useful for production in manufacturing, say for calorimitry.
One Group I heard of put diamond dust into the addhessive of a material called Kapton tape. good for 400 dgrees C. realy neat.
Nicodemus

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:56
Earl () ID#227238:: SWP1: It's a form of carbon. It won't be an insulator. Probably a poor conductor. On the order of graphite which is often used in resistors. Especially cheap potentiometers. ..... If you have one, let's crush it and see. ...... {:- )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:47
SWP1 (RE: Diamond) ID#286224:: Anybody know if if ti highly cundutive of electricy or highly insulative?

I forgot...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:42
Earl () ID#227238:: John Disney: My former accountant was a Brit and fond of the term Danegelt as a pejorative term for taxes. The etyology is apparently derived from the tribute paid your thieving, raping, pillaging ancestors by long suffering Brits.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:34
mozel (@Disney) ID#153102:: This was on the maternal side, I presume.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:32
newtron (From Super Lurk T Baby ++++++ Goll & Bloop & Market Poop !) ID#335184:: Of course only a loony would believe that someone can pontificate the next 1000 point directional & incremental move on the major averages,
but we can all see the signs & cast our opinions.
Ralph Acampora of Prudential says 10000 by Dec 31 & Abbie Joseph Cohen says S&P 1250 !
I agree with the learned Gollum & the esteemed Blooper, we are merely haggling over the details. But, Gollum consider the distance that this market must fall to approach a semblance of equilibrium ! Most crashes begin from an average PE of 20 to 22 during historic periods of peak earnings growth, today the S&P 500 is sporting a collective PE of 30 ! The leaders are at 50. The NASDAC is in much worse tecknical shape.This is unheard of. We are talking a 60% correction at a minimum, my guess front loaded, then a 20 to 30% retracement before the real grinding bloodletting begins like 1931. It will probably be more compressed than the 29 to 32 scenario & Y2k is the killer wild card that will surly be discounted in the mix. So I agree that to think that you can simply overlay a 29 - 32 chart over 98 & actually trade off it after the first big bump, would be like crashing a replica of the titanic against a huge iceberg & expecting it to go down in the same manner. It's just not going to oblige you exactly the same way twice.
But consider the fall from thirty feet to 10 Vs the same fall from 22 to 10. In one you break your legs. In the other, you break every thing !
There has never been any broad market that has been so inflated. Gollum says too much air has already been let out to crash. A defating baloon will not pop. Horse pocky ! The S&P market is much more likly to retrace a good attempt at new highs before realizing it is already much further over extended &over the precipiece than Willy Cyote ever was !
I came to see a diving act now dive rabbit !
IMHIPO, we are in that fase when the boat has struck the immovable object & denial is the supreme condition. Only the Captain & the shipline's chief engineer have a intelligent and educated guess as to how long the ship can maintain a semblane of a horizontal attitude, but even the poor slobs in steerage are beginning to notice that there ar'nt enough life boats, even to accomodate those in first class, having been removed by management as disturbing reminders to the passengers of their vulnerbility & the fallibillity of their pilots.
The rush for the initial exits will be heart wrentching & rending like that. Your after math will be no prettier !
Bottoms Up !!!
TALLY HO !

Y.O.S.

TAR BABY

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:25
John Disney__A (Ill drink to that ..) ID#24135:: Mozel ..
My ancestors drank from skulls
and tore hell out of everybody
on the European coasts and up the
big rivers .. we invented the
protection racket and were bringing
down that civilization from the
North .. strange how little they
seemed to appreciate what we were
doing.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:25
mozel (@CheeseKopf) ID#153102:: Grizz was well on his way to deriving Disney's migration to SA from the fact of moderation of clime in the Old Dominion. Next it would explain Robnoel's defeat in Rhodesia. And so on.

I am probably on the Laplander and Eskimo Defense League and Anti-Defamation Society hot list now for sure.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:23
Earl () ID#227238:: Mozel @4:02: After 4 reads, I think I understand.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:20
John Disney__A ( Thank you) ID#24135:: Captain Amelia Limberger ..

Bless you .. ad hominem et ad nauseum
.. and happy trails ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:18
sharefin (More On Embedded Systems) ID#284255:: http://x6.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=376551871&CONTEXT=902014223.1803092009&hitnum=60
At the last Senate/House hearing I attended, they stated that on the Grid
( And that is what I was addressing - not the smaller switches in the local
plant or in the local distribution system ) the big switches are NOT manually
switched nor can they be manually switched. One utility VP testified that they
had 170,000 embedded chips in their system. Our state PUC ( Public Utilities
Commission ) stated that it takes 2 hours per chip to test since the chip does
not have an IO port for testing. I don't know how you calculate but that is
340,000 man hours to check our their system. That's 46,250 man days OR around
174 man years.
=========================

I made this same point before with the 40 billion chips out there in the
world today. You can't know which ones are bad without testing. If you test
the above mentioned chips, there is not enough time. If you opt to replace
them all, there is not enough time. Replacing 170K chips in 520 days would
mean that they have to replace 326 chips per day around the clock every day,
saturdays and sundays included.

Can't be done.
9000 utilities. Can't be done.

Sewage plants, water Utilities, Gas Lines. Ships, Oil rigs, cracking plants,
manufacturing facilities. There are not enough embedded systems people on the
planet to handle even a tiny fraction of the problem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Got gold?
Guns and grub?

Forget the paper.
You know what that's good for.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:17
Earl () ID#227238:: mozel ( @Grizz ) : Take care with what you so flippantly disregard, Amigo. My forebears were Finns. It could have happened that way.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:15
John Disney__A (Shifty Guys .. Boers ) ID#24135:: For Robbie..
Like I said .. the ANC never really had a army ..
much as they INSIST they did .. their effectuve
terrorists were mainly Whites Moslems and one colored
I can think of .. The Africans frequently blew
themselves up with their own granades .. The action
you refer to was a cross border raid into Botwana ..
against terrorist hideout..

.. Getting back to Afrikaaners .. after Angola
they sold out Savimbi .. then 101 battalion .. then
the crowbar Bushman unit .. and now they seek jobs
as mercenaries fighting against Savimbi... Then
de klerk sold out South Africa .. and finally he
sold out his wife

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:13
Earl () ID#227238:: Grizz: Your original assertion has holes in it. The crap is leaking out.

What has been the death rate from hypothermia in Greece and Italy over the past 3000 years? Slightly higher than Bora Bora perhaps .... You seem to be defining intelligence in terms of a civilized refinement acceptable to your eyes.

Nothing wrong with tribal pride but it shouldn't be passed off as good science. Bad science is what keeps the EPA in business. You're joining them.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:11
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (BE CAREFUL HERR MOZEL--) ID#431263:: You wouldn't want some Laplander or Eskimo to accuse you of racism now would you? : )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:11
G-Nutz (Grizz:) ID#433143:: Yes, I am G-Six Pack, i dont make 100k a year, but have learned about true value and the preservation of wealth in real things. However I am not at the bottom of the food chain. I'm only 22, but feel so fortunate to have been steered in the right direction by my father and soon to be father in law. There are a number of ppl listening out there, and they know about the pm's. There numbers are growing. I feel you are right in stating that most of them are living paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford to make any move into metals. To bad.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:09
mozel (@Grizz) ID#153102:: So according to the weather theory of culture, this adversity of the clime is the reason all the great intellectual achievements have come to us from the Laplanders and the Eskimos ?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:05
Nicodemus (Hello Blooper:) ID#335379:: I have, and find it to be a book about all the time between comings, showing the cycles of rise and fall of many evils becoming more and more fierce each cycle.
The churches throughout the ages have thought that the end was in there generation. Not to say that this is not the time. But that the most relevant message is the message to the seven churches. Turn that I may heal you, return to the first love of God. It is far more difficult to be ready whenever than to speculate on the when.
And as Earl pointed out, many that believe will be killed, Heaven forbid that it be those that claim belief do the killing. As unfortunately they have in the past.
Talk about taking God's name in vain......
With no intention of causing offense, which is so easy to do in this blind-face medium...
Nicodemus

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:03
Earl (Reprobates R Us?) ID#227238:: John Disney: Some clearly see beauty where none exists. ..... Others hear words not meant for us. All too often they also have the ear of the King. ...... then the trouble starts.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:02
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:: Let us suppose that you and I got on a railway car in which our compartments were divided. Now suppose that you have the porter pass me a message saying I am in the adjoing compartment. If I do not speak to you, you have no reason to speak to me. The message of your existence has already been passed to me. At the end of the journey, I can truly say that you never spoke to me, but, nevertheless, you were there all the time.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 04:01
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (There yiou go again Diz--) ID#431263:: Trying to push my buttons and make me amuse you with some new invective or ad hominum attack--sorry to disappoint you Diz, but I'll pass, and leave the ad hominum attacks to Hep and Bloop!

It's been fun though to see you busily defending your great country and its great future under the great leadership of Nelson Mandelastein and the ANC. You can take great pride in what the RSA has become under their fair and foresighted leadership! I am sure that history will record one day what a great civilization the RSA was under such intelligent and brilliant leadership! And to think that you were privileged to have lived in such a prosperous and enlightened place at such an important moment in history! What a blessing!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:50
sharefin (Telecoms Deeply Enscrewed ,And That's The Good News) ID#284255:: http://x6.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=376883427&CONTEXT=902014223.1803092009&hitnum=54
If country A's ground network is year 2000 compliant, and Intelsat,
being the supply chain in the middle is also complaint, and country B's ground
network is not year 2000 compliant, then you will have a failure of the
complete chain.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get Gold.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:50
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:: The head of 1000 families was called eolderman, later shortened to earl.

The common law of England in its purest form was Germanic and Celtic in origin. Beyond that its roots go back into the mists of history. In the ancient records it is always described and couched in the context of a fundamental law of divine origin associated with the governance of all nature. The founding fathers of the American Republic referred to it as the law of nature and of nature's God. This phrase is lifted directly from the Lex Salica, the common law of the German tribes.

The administrative assistant to the earl was called the shire reef, now called the sheriff.

Are we not better for what we have hitherto abolished of the fuedal system ? Has not every restitution of the ancient Saxon laws had happy effects ? Is it not better now that we return at once into that happy system of our ancestors, the wisest and most perfect ever yet devised by the wit of man, as it stood before the eighth century ? Thomas Jefferson to Edmund Pendleton August 13, 1776

Franklin and Jefferson proposed a national seal having the children of Israel in the wilderness led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night and on the other side the Saxon chiefs Hengst and Horsa from who we claim the honor of being descended and whose political principles and form of government we have assumed. The motto they proposed for the seal was Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:48
sharefin (Tax Shaft ) ID#284255:: http://www.motherjones.com/news_wire/irs.html

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:47
Nicodemus (Silver conductivity) ID#335379:: Hello G-nutz and Squirrell:
Silver is I recall the most conductive ellement in it's natural state. But it oxidizes easily making it a poor switch contact material. That is why gold or nickel plate is used in repetative connector or switch contacts.
I cannot seem to recall which element is most thermally conductive, Copper and Alum. are popular choices because of cost.
Nicodemus, just adding my 2 cents

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:45
sharefin (Grizz) ID#284255:: It's fun in the tropics.
Good looking girls, great drinks/drinkers.
Lots of coconut trees to sit under.
Lots of spare time for not to have to think about anything.
Good fun not having to think as one slips into inebriation.

I love the tropics.
Pass another glass please
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The End of the Line
http://web2.airmail.net/foodstr2/chinese.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:44
John Disney__A (Now that you mention it ..) ID#24135:: Earl ..
I havent heard much from the
BIG GUY lately myself ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:43
Earl () ID#227238:: Must have missed something along the way. That is, the intrinsic merit of phylo-typing the civilizations of antiquity. With no sound assertions, I can only assume that it's principle attraction is but a continuation of the process of cultural plumping. We seem to like that a lot. ....... It's more asinine form finds solace in theological superiority as well.

T'was a Brit who invented the flush toilet. Seems to me that we owe that man - John Crapper? - a debt of gratitude easily equal to the Greek mathematicians. After all, it was he that made it possible to ponder the imponderable in comfort and convenience. He made civilized living worth killing for.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:40
John Disney__A ( I agree ..) ID#24135:: Captain Limberger ..
That there was a fantastic developement
of civilization and culture in the northern
hemisphere ..
.. that is ..
except in your case .

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:39
Nicodemus (Hello Earl, I have absolutly no plan of my own to carry out sanctamonious judgements on anyone.) ID#335379:: If God is who he says he is and does what he says he does, it all must come from Him. I am not God' s police. A french philosipher wrote that If one is speaking of the judgement of God, I will wait resolutely for that judgement, for I have known something worse, the judgemnet of men, where there are no extenuating circumstances. I agree, The last thing any of us want from God is judgement, even though we bray about it from time to time, we don't have a clue.
Sincerely,
Nicodemus

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:37
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (JIN--) ID#431263:: Any new news to report about the political and social situation in Indonesia now that the head of our military has left? Are American citizens now returning for happy Days? Is life getting back to normal for the Chinese business people there yet, or is the next shoe about to drop? Please!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:34
Grizz (sorry for the double post - I double clicked by mistake) ID#424394:: My earlier premise boils down to this...

An easy life does not demand development of much intellect.

And an easy life ( such as receiving gov't handouts )
may lead to ever decreasing intelligence levels ( devolution ) .

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:26
Grizz (Challenging Climates = Greater Intelligence & Higher Cultures) ID#424394:: Premise:
Those cultures or societies who evolved in subtropical or tropical climates where foraging for food and other survival concerns occupies a minor part of one's day rarely were challenged enough to have evolutionary pressures select for ever greater intelligence.
Those cultures or societies who evolved in harsh climates that demand planning for winter and where mistakes in such planning are deadly, evolved greater intelligence to deal with these environmental challenges.

Thus: Tropical cultures do not generally have the adversity-spawned intellect to democratically govern themselves, nor to have much of an advanced civilization.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:26
Grizz (Challenging Climates = Greater Intelligence & Higher Cultures) ID#424394:: Premise:
Those cultures or societies who evolved in subtropical or tropical climates where foraging for food and other survival concerns occupies a minor part of one's day rarely were challenged enough to have evolutionary pressures select for ever greater intelligence.
Those cultures or societies who evolved in harsh climates that demand planning for winter and where mistakes in such planning are deadly, evolved greater intelligence to deal with these environmental challenges.

Thus: Tropical cultures do not generally have the adversity-spawned intellect to democratically govern themselves, nor to have much of an advanced civilization.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:25
G-Nutz (squirrel, ) ID#433143:: actually i think silver has the least resistance of the elements.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:22
Earl () ID#227238:: Nicodemus: Your words bear a note of sincerity. I do not dispute them.
At the same time, if your final paragraph be true, the ranks of professed believers on the word will likely be thinned some. Though I shall find their sanctimony poor comfort; I fear I may have to travel with them, in the next life. ...... Perhaps that's a definition of hell, sound enough to consider....... {:- )

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:20
blooper (And Nicodemus,) ID#207145:: It will not be pretty.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:20
aurator () ID#257148:: Cheesehead
No, I make no statement as to equivalences of civilisations. I say there is equivalence over time of human folly, vanity and intelligence. I Dan Daresay ( Pu'ukanui, you about? ) that each civilisation regards itself as superior to its predecessors. We forget, perhaps, as far as longevity is concerned, the invention of water reticulation and waste disposal are the single contributors, and that these simple principles ( separate good from foul ) have been learned several times, to be forgotten again.

Humanity R Us

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:18
blooper (Nicodemus) ID#207145:: If you are truly religious, go study Revelations. It is beginning to unfold.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:13
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Aurator--) ID#431263:: Are you suggesting to me that the Kingdoms of Benin, Axum, Mali, Kush and Great Zimbabwe are to be equated with the great European and Middle Eastern civilizations of Greece, Rome, Persia, Baghdad, Byzantium, England, France, Portugal, Spain, Germany or even Russia and China? Gott im Himmel! The liberal multicultural contagion really has infected our collective consciousness and made cowards of us all! The only African civilization that really amounted to anything close to the great European civilzations was ancient Egypt which is really more Middle Eastern than African!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:11
Nicodemus (Earl, Same frustration, different angle....) ID#335379:: Hello Earl:
I too am frustrated by those that use God and His Word to gain authority for earthly atrocities, in claiming specialness Only the Almighty is sovereign enough for that.
Suffice it to say that all of us are called to love in such a way, that even the disciples did not know who was to betray Jesus, in that He treated and loved them all the same and they could not tell who it was that Jesus spoke of when He said one of you will betray Me. That is love.
Also to consider the understanding that He scourages all whom he receives so that the believer does not think he is better or more worthy of anything than any other. I beleive and know I am not worthy. No greater love hath a man than that he lay down his life for his friends. That is the standard, I confess I am not there yet,
May I one day be. Until then let it not be said by me that I have any god-given right over any man.
With all due respect to you and yours,

Nicodemus,

If it is any encouragement, God has stated very plainly that he will not allow humans to use His name for there own petty purposes forevever. thou shalt not take the name of the Lord God in vain means not to apply His name to any false or evil purpose.
Please forgive me Bart.
Go Gold.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:08
Earl () ID#227238:: Salty: Psycho/ethnic auto flagellation is not unique to the sons of the southern cross. The idea of the white man's burden, in these northern latitudes, has undergone a remarkable expansion of conscienceness in recent decades as well. ...... I think there is a movement afoot in Canada to provide a piece of sovereign ground for First Canadian Peoples. Somewhere in the NW territories. ....... Probably subject to change if found to bear something more useful than moose turds.

Same, same, here in 'Merica. Not even necessary to be 1/16 of The Blood. It's really enough to have known someone who is 1/16 of The Blood.

If you have a drug or alchohol problem, Social Security will spot you USD 600/month to alleviate the embarrassment of coming up short, should you find a monkey on yer back and need a fix. Proven to be a great subsidy for the distillers and, of course, the drug trade. Not to mention another $1500 added to fight the war on drugs. ....... Ya honestly cannot write crap this amusing. Or tragic.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:06
JIN (bridge news comments on metal..31/07) ID#206358:: METALS: COMEX gold futures ended the week on a bearish note, continuing to
fall as the dollar climbed even higher against the yen. Gold will see
further losses unless the dollar shows some significant weakening, but with
uncertainty surrounding Japan's economic fate, that doesn't appear likely
in the short-term. End

rgds,JIN

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 03:02
aurator (cum grano salis) ID#257148:: Cheesehead
Thanks for sparking memories of Ghandi. This really is one sh!t-kicking corner of cyberspace, yes?

salty

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:56
robnoel__A (John disney...OK last try here is my web page go to links page scroll to the bottom Military ) ID#396249:: History click on go down to SA Military
History...you will see ANC hide out
destroyed.....

http://www.patriottrading.com

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:55
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (I'm not a big Ghandi fan, BUT--) ID#431263:: as I understand it, Ghandi was trained as a lawyer in England and came back to SA to practice law until one day he was refused passage on the train because of his color even though he had a first class ticket. It was at this point that he tried to reconcile amd synthesize his political views of Hindu nationalism with his Hindu and Christian spiritual and moral views and came up with his famous 'satyagraha' or 'truth force'--the idea that non-violence ( both a Hindu and Christian concept ) can overcome evil ( British hegemony over India ) through the consistent and determined practice of non-violent passive resistence to British rule. I assume you all know about his famous salt march to the sea and what followed.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:55
John Disney__A (The Real Problem with Brown People..) ID#24135:: is that they are becomming more like us ..
We have reason to complain ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:53
John Disney__A (Cheesehead's Burden ) ID#24135:: To all ..
I have located a WHITE MANS BURDEN anglophile
who is also a GREEN Bay Packer Fan ..
I had always assumed this was genetically impossible
.. How wrong can a man be ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:51
aurator () ID#257148:: Earl
Agree. It is we who have allowed this state of affairs, and it is we who must fight to reinstate our liberty.

I am reminded, not for the first time:

Like liberty, gold never stays where it is undervalued. -

JS Morril Speech to US Senate 25 Jan 1878

bb dinner time

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:48
aurator (Pax vobiscum...........NMRK..............) ID#257148:: Earl
One day when I lack all rancour, when I have achieved that nirvana that gollum seems to strive for ( oxymorons-R-Us ) I shall tell you of the Waitangi Tribunal. A whip for our backs. Created over a decade ago to right the wrongs of the past. To give to Maori their compensation for being conquered by guile and stealth 150 odd years ago. To give anyone who could show 1/16 Maori blood, in some cases, a share of the Waitangi spoils ( read past, present and future taxes ) .

As more grievances are settled with money and land, more grievances surface. We see our tax stolen dollars frittered away on grand mercedes-benz and huge houses.

No. I need the tranquility. ANOTHER time....

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:45
John Disney__A ( Thanks a lot ..) ID#24135:: Robbie ..
Now I get

Page Not Found
The Server [ourworld.compuserve.com] was unable to find
the following page:
Page [Default]
User [RAll]
Category [homepages].

Obviously history has been rewritten
and you have been stricken .. bad luck
old chum

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:42
mozel (@ERLE) ID#153102:: I don't know strat.
You suppose he posted a cliche without meaning what it said.
For all I know, you are correct.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:40
Earl () ID#227238:: Aurator: They really didn't do it to us. In net effect, we asked them to please do it to us. We, societely speaking, wanted something for nothing. In the process, so arranged our political affairs as to create the opportunity to reach deeply into our neighbors pocket and extract all that we could.

Timid at first, we took only a little. But as the game has been refined, those with a defective sense of fair play found that with a bit of legal coersion, reach and grasp need no longer be unequal. Roosevelt II showed us the way. Now we are in possession of the truth and the light as well. Yet the latter does not seem to illuminate the former.

The mills of the master move ponderously slow, and grind exceedingly fine. ....... Ya have yer wheat 'n ya have yer chaff. Siftin' 'n winnowin' ...... Look up the food chain. There's the wheat. ..... If you can see yer peers. Yer chaff.

This will of course be more highly refined ( disguised ) under Democratic Socialism, I believe.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:39
John Disney__A (Did Ghandi Plagerize ) ID#24135:: Erle ..
Donno .. maybe

Saw the Movie .. never understood
why anyone liked it .. That little
attenborough dork made it .. dont
like him either .. He rewrites
history too .. like the Captain ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:38
Grizz (EJ - your 23:55 post about Joe Sixpack ) ID#424394:: The Joe & Jane Sixpacks I know don't own stocks unless their company includes them in a benefits package - and most folks hereabouts don't have much of a benefits package. These folks squeak by paycheck by paycheck. You must be talking about a middle-class of folks that seem pretty well off compared to me and my friends. They are more the wine and cheese rather than six-packs of Bud.
Oddly enough - if we can afford to invest we are more likely to buy Gold and Silver than the next economic class above us. We are more conservative because we have been beat down enough times that we do not want to risk money we don't have gambling in a stock market. At least with Gold and Silver we have something tangible. It may drop in value but it can't evaporate into thin air like stocks can ( and have ) .

P.S. Maybe Kitcoites who have significant Gold holdings have higher disposable incomes than even the two classes alluded to above ( mine and the next above me and my peers ) . Or maybe they just have different priorities than the wine and cheese set. Or maybe some are part of the sixpack crowd who have managed to save up enough to buy some Gold ( in addition to guns & ammo & a pickup truck ) .

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:35
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Aurator--) ID#431263:: Forgive me for asking, but would you really trade places with Ghandi's India? Again, were it not for the Brits and the Portugese,India would still be divided into tribes and languishing in the throes of debilitating poverty and disease! The surveying of India by the Brits for the railroad that is still the lifeblood of the country and its single largest employer put India on the map and improved India's ability to govern itself and unite its diverse population.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:35
robnoel__A (John Disney...maybe you guys have internet censorship over there I'll try again) ID#396249:: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RAll
port/gaberone.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:32
ERLE (@mozel) ID#190411:: strat might have just tossed out a cliche.
He's one of us, for freedom.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:31
mozel (@Golden Jewelry) ID#153102:: The notion is afoot that gold in jewelry is non-monetary.

But, consider the following. At common law the property of the woman became the property of the man at marriage ( if he preceded her in death, she had rights of dower ) , but that property which came to the woman after marriage was hers absolutely. Personal property belonging to the woman at marriage was excepted from the marital ownership rule.

Now most of the world still lives with the natural and religious order of gender. So, the law of property of women worldwide is very much like the common law rule, which was likewise based on the natural and religious order of gender.

Gold jewelry then is the vehicle by which a woman has wealth of her own in most of the world. Is jewelry then truly a non-monetary use of gold ? A gold bracelet is admittedly not an official monetary unit. But it can always readily be converted by a gold trader to gold coin or other currency if the woman who owned it so desired. Is that not merely a currency exchange ? One money unit for another ?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:30
blooper (Goodnight and good riddance) ID#207145:: Aren't we morose tonight. Off to cheer myself up.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:28
John Disney__A (Went to your site ..) ID#24135:: Robbie ..
I got this
HTTP/1.0 403 Access
Forbidden ( Read Access
Denied - This Virtual
Directory does not allow
objects to be read. )

thanks a lot ..

My point is that the ANC didnt
really HAVE an army .. how did you
manage to fight it

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:25
blooper (CHILL OUT) ID#207145:: Somebody screwed it all up despite you guys.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:24
ERLE (aurator,) ID#190411:: Ghandhi took savage pride in serving with british forces in South Africa.
I can get the quotes if you would like.
A colonial all the way, until it didn't suit his purpose.
Ghandi is the world, Martin Luther King is the US.
King plaigerized everything that he is noted for. Did Ghandi?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:20
John Disney__A (You Know Africa ..) ID#24135:: like I know Brain Surgery ..
Captain Limberger ..
Your cheesy analysis of history is just that..
Southern Africa could have survived nicely without
Rhodes.. South Africa had existed for a long time
without many spears and arrows before Rhodes came
along ..
Thats kind of like saying without Henry Ford ..
Cowboys would still be fighting indians ..
Please Captain .. read a book .. Does
sly stallone play Cecil in that movie ?
was it filmed in Mandelastein-land

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:19
blooper (Maybe a DODO bird) ID#207145:: Or an Ostrich. But not an Owl like Gollum.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:18
Earl () ID#227238:: John Disney: It never changes. Oppression must always receive sanctification from some quarter. Who is handier than God and His word?

That God has chosen favorites among his anointed critters is beyond belief or comprehension. Yet, it seems to be so. Otherwise, why would they say these things?

My ears may not be what they once were but in 60 years, I have yet to hear one syllable from On High. None. Nada. Zip. And yet those juggheads of the wild eye, fevered brow and spittle running down their chins, would have us believe that they are involved in daily chit chats with their Creator.

And in the course of said conversation, have concluded, on good authority, that He wants the temporal world so arranged as to provide natural advantage to those of His favorites. Namely themselves.

It's also assumed that those of us forced to watch this comedy, will be proscribed from any form of protest. Should we do so, it's perceived as contumacy of the highest order.

We should be thankful for the enlightenment though; at least it's no longer considered good form to burn heretics at the stake. Progress of a sort. I suppose. ..... But a long way from the ideal.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:17
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (PACKERS WON AGAIN--) ID#431263:: And I'm outa' here to watch that new Cecil Rhodes movie. Anybody else out there in Kitcoland seen it or heard of it?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:16
robnoel__A (John Disney....rather than tout my military info on the net I will give you some stuff) ID#396249:: I suggest you copy it and read it when you
are in a better frame of mind....

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RAll>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RAll
port/moss1.htm

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RAll
port/gaberone.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:16
blooper (snowbird) ID#207145:: This aint an ego thing, this is a money thing. My charts, against your mouth. You may speak for yourself. Gollum has proven himself. What have you done lately?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:15
aurator (Ethnocentrics-R-US) ID#257148:: Herr Cheesehead
I now understand the etymology of your handle. It was nothing like I imagined. My imagination is so fickle.

No, I'd not waste time in the empty speculation what if there was no Cecil Rhodes. I just think that perspective can be added by different points of view. As for civilisation vs barbarism. You forget the ancient civilisations of Africa? Africa, according to contemporary archaeological explanations, Africa was the cradle of our humanity, the Great Rift Valley. I like to remember Ghandi. He was asked by an eager journalist:
What do you think of Western Civilisation?
Ghandi replied: I think it would be a good idea.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:13
blooper (Gollum is wise) ID#207145:: But the charts don't lie. No one looks at em. I look at em. I want to make money. Youse guys are charmed with the sound of your own voices. Ignorance of the past dooms you guys to make no money. That is good also.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:09
snowbird (Gollum--you present information well) ID#220325:: Great common sense dispensed with a calm delivery. Your approach to the current market shows a great depth of understanding. You not swayed by the repetition of the crash scenario in every second comment made by some. Yours are enlightened contributions, thank you for them.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:07
blooper (Baaaaaaaaaad) ID#207145:: He said, sheepishly, they can hear zippers a mile away, thats why we wear kilts.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:05
blooper (Are you speaking) ID#207145:: From experience John.?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:03
John Disney__A (The Tendency towards Sodomiticity) ID#24135:: Salty ..
in certain parts of the Southern African
region was inversly proportional to the
sheep shortage ..
I could never understand that ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:01
Squirrel (Water, for some regions, even Gold can not buy enough) ID#280214:: But Silver may be able to...
The silver iodide provides additional condensation nuclei, which can allow more cloud moisture to be converted to large raindrops, he said.
http://amarillonet.com/stories/032897/water.html

Tamerlane,
You are quite correct - a disruption of water supplies would decimate agriculture. Lands whose fertile soil is blown away would take decades to recover - and if oil is not available for fertilizer and water is not available for irrigation, then a desert would come into being that would last forever ( as far as human generations are concerned ) .

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:01
themissinglink (George__A) ID#373403:: Don't know a John Pollack but mathmeticians say that all Brittish people are related. The Pollack heredity algorythms are not yet complete.

Any of you Green Bay people recognize the name Pieschek?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 02:00
aurator () ID#257148:: Earl/mozel
I remember one of my paternal grandfathers talking about the days before income tax and passports, when paper was convertible to gold. It has taken scarcely one generation to wrap ourselves in paper-chain handcuffs ( doff of the cap to deSade ) spun by beaurocrats to deprive us of our rights as sovereign individuals

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:57
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Herr Aurator--) ID#431263:: Whatever Cecil Rhodes was as a person, without his vision and determination to bring SA into the 20th century economically, there would be no gold and diamond mines today, no jobs, no infrastructure and the ANC blacks and coloureds would still be living in mud huts and fighting each other with spears. Does anybody really think the SA blacks and coloureds would be better off today had Cecil Rhodes never set foot in Africa? Get real!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:57
robnoel__A (aurator..unlike Disney who I might add I agree with on a lot of stuff including the Nats but anyway) ID#396249:: Rhodes was without question a SOB,he at one
time was torn between going to Africa or
coming to America he was pissed off with the
former Ex-Brits anyway here is some good info
on him

http://www.empireone.com/~monitor/rhodes.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:56
John Disney__A (Last word) ID#24135:: for Robbie Rhodesian ..
I dont go the the Cape flats much
.. How ofter do you go to South
Central LA .. Thats one stupid
question answered by another ..

And for Captain Limberger the
A-bomb droppper wannabee who
is armed with a velveeta semi-
automatic..
How come you live in Wisconsin
and know so much about South Africa
The REAL motive behind your mouth
attack is that you fear the low cost
rsa gold mines will sink your Lihir
investment .. and you have reason to
worry.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:51
Earl (Oooops.) ID#227238:: Strat: Liberty is not a function of property. ........ Since nature, or nature's God if it pleases, inadvertantly ( or purposely ) failed to provide each of us with the 'physical' accoutrements to insure survival; I would take the position that liberty is, absolutely, not possible without the complete, unwavering, right to personal property. Consider your position if so deprived of warm clothes ( property ) in the dead of winter. Trivial example but it expresses the view.

The right to property is not one of degree. Either it exists or it doesn't. Today, it doesn't exist. Tribute is exacted at all levels in order to maintain the illusion of possession. ..... Fail to pay your property taxes and a close friend of the county assessor will be occupying your bedroom in a fortnight. A misunderstanding with the gestapo will result in an immediate jeopardy assessment. Bingo, all accounts and property are under the management of the IRS and their close associates.

If you have no concern for temporal matters ..... why this site? Why now? ..... Not trying to be a smartass. Just wondering.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:49
John Disney__A (Im unimpressed ..) ID#24135:: Im curious .. Robbie Rhodesian .. where actually
DID you kick the ANC's butt .. where did you engage
the ANC .. lets get specific .. what unit were you
with when you fought the ANC .. Im not talking about
fighting Mugabe and Shona and Matabele .. Im talking
about Imkanto we Sizwe guys .. You call that a serious
army ? Did you fight the girl scouts too ...
and what are these SOURCES..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:47
aurator () ID#257148:: robnoel
I dont know much about history, dunno much geography
Don't much of the maths I took
He what is this a science book?

but i do know in the only book I read about Cecil Rhodes, he was described as a murdering sodomite. Rich, but a murdering sodomite nevertheless.

I don't want to get in a fight with you, just that name Rhodes gives me the creeps.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:44
strat (Good night...) ID#93241:: I have, no doubt, said enough. I am grateful for the company of those who share the value of tangible assets.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:41
mozel (@Mr Render Unto Caesar) ID#153102:: You don't gotta live here. In fact, you live here now only in some existential sense of the word. You're just consuming and rendering yourself to Caesar in America with your body while your mind and heart are in the Old Country kissing the Kaiser's butt and the Pope's foot.

Since the traditions, customs, and fine words of the friends of liberty which is the heritage which your immigrant forebears were admitted to by being allowed to join this nation have so little value to you, what natural right have you to continue here as an inhabitant ?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:41
aurator () ID#257148:: sharefin/Earle

Those professors, looking through their rose-coloured prisms, gotta be a great comedy act to book for The Americas Cup to be held in this loverly burg in Feb 2000.

Anyone got ANOTHER international Sporting Event between 01/01/00 and then?

Hmmm. America's Cup. Y2K. Titanic. Gotta get me the movie rights to that idea�aur@tor~~sue~~me

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:36
John Disney__A ( Go Boks ..) ID#24135:: To Earl ..
South Africa was of course never EVIL. The Boer
led super religious and socialist Nat Government was
the REAL problem .. They were shortsighted and
without imagination .. they justified their self
interested objectives with the Bible.. Their goal
was to exclude Blacks from having ANY power in the
country .. BUT they still wanted their labour and
as cheaply as posible. They also aliented the local
Colored population .. who were NON AFRICAN BUT dark
skinned ....by trying to exclude them too ( Few non south
africans will ever understand coloureds but it
is KEY to the RSA problem ) ..
Coloureds are very likeable .. Easy to assimilate ..
The Nats goofed badly by trying to exclude them ..
One ( Chester Williams ) actually is a Bok .. When he scores
a try .. they let it count.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:36
Schippi (UGLY Gold Charts) ID#93199:: Fidelity Select Gold & Precious metals Charts
5 Years, 120 day, 30 day and hourly charts at:
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969
Click on Gold Sectors

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:34
blooper (It is GOOD) ID#207145:: That our future is cloudy. Dont think we wanna know. Good night all. Our immediate future is BRIGHT.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:33
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (GOOD POINT HERR STRAT ABOUT THE PACKERS--) ID#431263:: They are owned lock, stock and barrel by the city of Green Bay and its fans--the way its supposed to be! When the Packers need something they take their needs directly to the fans--witness their most recent stock offering! And the fans always respond! If only all of pro sports operated like the Packers do! The Packers are proof you can succeed in a small city without a lot of government handouts!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:31
robnoel__A (John Disney....I have on many occasions here spoken about Cecil Rhodes the founder of my country is ) ID#396249:: the father of theNew World Order aka
Rockafeller,JP Morgan etc.....an expansion of
the Crown if you will was his goal....his
vision has been past on ever since by Oxford
University in the form of Rhodes
Schorlarships....yes my friend I know now who
the players are....I did not lose Rhodesia i
was to young,and I am proud of my service in
the SADF FYI we never lost on the battle
field...we kicked the ANC's butt every
time...we lost out as you stated to pressure
from the US and Europe never in battle....as
for the US the good people of America were
never told the truth and a lot had to do with
not wanting to deal with there own
past,because of some guilt trip that the
likes of Jesse Jackson,Randel Robinson spew
on a regular basis.........and although I
could do nothing to save Rhodesia...Iam doing
my best to wake up America everyday......and
expose those who sold us out......I deal in
facts not fiction....so when was the last time you spent time in the Cape Flats or don't you go there just in case you don't come out

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:28
tolerant1 (Namaste' and a gulp to all except Camdesuss, Clintler and, well you folks know) ID#373284:: who my favorites are. The Privateer just arrived and I must read this issue now with a mug of tequila...it is without question one of THE best newsletters I have ever seen in print...and it is consistently so...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:26
blooper (Chineese invasion of Middle East) ID#207145:: Got to have oil, and Israel. Clinton's buddies too. Blood will be up to the bridles of their horses. They really do need oil. Leave Israel alone. Time then for a second visitation.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:22
strat (Liberty) ID#93241:: Earl, your masters may only respond to temporal law, but not my master. Wouldn't it also be a much more pleasant country if governance were decided by those who have a stake in the preservation of liberty. ie, property owners? The alternate is to have outcomes determined by a political pandering to those whose only interest is how much they can steal from us. We've subsidized Wall Street with tax-mandated 401k's. We subsidized the largest corporations with an overly strong dollar. ( Ask any American farmer. ) We subsidize sports teams with billions for publically funded stadiums, except the Packers ( Amen ) . Liberty is not a function of property. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. In America, it's socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us. I am content to be a capitalist. Thank you.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:17
Earl () ID#227238:: Sharefin: Great stuff. I wish Herr Professor's like those two received a wider reading. Mellifluous. Honey sweet and soothing. ...... Then you had to go and break the spell with all that Titanic crap.

All that maritime stuff reminded me that they are landing albacore on the Oregon coast. Time to crank up the pressure cooker and lay in a supply. Monday fer sher.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:17
blooper (Dust bowl) ID#207145:: It's all falling into place. We get swarms of locusts too. Mabe it will take a real war, Armaggedon, to get us out of this one.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:15
Tamerlane__A (what I meant to suggest was that it might be a long time before things are back to normal after Y2K,) ID#372276:: .

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:15
blooper (Golden Cheesehead) ID#207145:: Most liberals are so busy kissing their butts, they don't realize blacks a real big bigots too.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:11
Tamerlane__A (Agriculture: worst case?) ID#372276:: Squirrel,

Just dropped by for a quick thought, then I�m gone.

The South West/California water woks is a massive and complicated computerized system that distributes water to California growers�the most prodigious in the nation. If by chance their computer system is not Y2K compliant ( it is almost certainly date sensitive ) or if Hoover Dam is date sensitive and not compliant then the agriculture-business in the United States could be devastated. Consider for example that it takes a few months to get that system up and running after Jan. 1, 2000�all thing else being equal i.e.� it is distinctly possible that California could dry out and all the top soil blow away. Big ifs of course... Just some happy thoughts...

Tamerlane

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:11
blooper (Earl) ID#207145:: You may be al--right after all. Let us have a word of prayer.. Hep dis tock maket. Seriously, help this country. We are in for deep trouble.
I got a boss too. And de BIG man stays upset with be just like you do. But he knows where my heart is. No jokes.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:09
Squirrel (Informative Timeline of the Great Depression) ID#280214:: http://www.scruz.net/~kangaroo/Timeline.htm

More understanding about the 20's & 30's may soon be useful.

I had not known the twenties were not roaring for many people.
An average of 600 banks fail each year. Agricultural, energy and coal mining sectors are continually depressed. Textiles, shoes, shipbuilding and railroads continually decline.
The account at this site agrees better with my mother's experience in the '20s. Life on a farm was very difficult for her family throughout the decade. The Great Depression only made it worse. Unemployment stay very high. In 1937 a cutback in gov't spending caused a further recession within the Depression. Even by 1939 it still did not look good: unemployment falls to 17.2 percent.
Deficit spending by governments for WWII brought Germany, Britain & U.S. out of the Depression. Was a major world war inevitable, a typical human response to hard times at home - wage war on one's neighbors. If it had not been for such spending & WWII how long would the Depression have lasted? Decades?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:07
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (DIZ--) ID#431263:: Tyranny knows no color and justice knows no race! Endless years of apartheid does not justify what the ANC is doin' to whites in SA today!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:07
ERLE (see ya') ID#190411:: Harmony and love.
XXXXX

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:06
blooper (I'm Scccccared to tttttalk) ID#207145:: Somebody hep me.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:02
John Disney__A (Come in .. Come in ..) ID#24135:: Bloops ..
Kitco kitco and kitco ..
but other than that man Im losing you

Strat ..
Im having trouble getting on your wavelength
too..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:02
Let X=X__A (nd it is just like old times) ID#318235:: if bart wanted more trafic at k2, he has it now

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 01:02
blooper (I myself am a ) ID#207145:: Ragan Commie.Disarmingly handsome. The lies are from the Commie part of the Id. The Ego is overblown, but the super ego is Hollywood. Go gold, Go Ragan.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:58
ERLE (Disney) ID#190411:: Several years ago the Springboks were here in Racine, Wisconsin USA.
The local media refused to publish any info on their appearance.
I only found out about it from the hubbub of the professional protesters.
By the time I got to the field that they were playing at, the game was about finished. I lived less than two city blocks from the field.
I thought that it was shabby treatment of the team and country, when they were on a goodwill trip. RSA wasn't an evil country.
Maybe someone ought to remind ROR that it was the socialists that set up apartheid...... must keep the blacks from taking the jobs of the white miners.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:57
sharefin (Earl) ID#284255:: The FDIC have probably got the dough in stocks for safekeeping.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Note re-splice the url together.
http://x6.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=376666842&search
=thread&threaded=1&CONTEXT=902030612.55902218&hitnum=3
Once you recognize the gravity of the situation, accept that there will
be horrific consequences, then it doesn't seem odd that this guy is
yelling... yelling and cursing at you.

Sure he seems a little nutz but try these thoughts on for size:

the Dow is at an all time high... or nearly so. PE's are running 25-35
while the historic good numbers are 10-15. Past performance is no
guarentee of future results. ...and almost everyone I talk to says,
wow, it sure is high but I made a lot of money over the last few years
and I can't afford to bail out now... I'm afraid but I can't get out of
the market... it's scary but I need to get my 30% per year return... my
plans are based on my investments doubling ever 2-3 years...

OK, who's nutz now....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I Can't believe My Own Eyes
http://x6.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=376883291&CONTEXT=902014223.1803092009&hitnum=53

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:57
John Disney__A (Trying to be one of the Gang ..) ID#24135:: ( And convinced by the LF that Racism
is the ONLY way to go )

Ah don know ..
Capn Limberger ..
Too Many Africans on that Packer Team
for this Ole Boy .. You all supporting
Black folks ?
Now my Boks .. dowen heah in Mandelastein
land .. are SNOW WHITE ..
Figure that one out while you all are
building your alls' next Cheesebomb..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:56
blooper (John Disney) ID#207145:: I guess you and me is bof Commies. I must apologize to my sef. Dour, sour Kraut. Call me Ray or call me Jay buy you doesn't has to call me Mr. Johnson.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:56
Earl () ID#227238:: Strat: I belong to my maker...I am His servant. ....... Be that as it may but, our masters respond only to temporal law and we are, in effect, nothing but indentured servants. At this time and place. ...... ( Mozel, please don't go reading anything Freudian into my words. )

Wouldn't it also be a much more pleasant country if governance were decided by those who have a stake in the preservation of liberty. ie, property owners? The alternate is to have outcomes determined by a political pandering to those whose only interest is how much they can steal from us. Much like it is presently. Yes?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:53
blooper (John Disney) ID#207145:: What are your top three Internet picks?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:49
George__A (missing link) ID#433172:: Any relation to John Pollack,died about 1955 of Hodgkins, old submariner.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:48
John Disney__A (Self Examination ..) ID#24135:: To all
I always considered myself a racist .. Until I read
the writings of Captain Limberber and robbie Rhodesian ..
.. Have I turned into a LIBERAL .. Can this be
happening .. Am I becoming a better person
This is awful.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:45
strat (All, Namaste) ID#93241:: I ain't much of a cook ( although I can fry fish...and make toast ) , but I do like stirring the pot.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:43
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Earl--) ID#431263:: Priest's name was Father Groppi. Too liberal for most Catholics I know!
DIZ--LOFLMAO--Would love to see 'em try to tear off Gilbert Brown's head or Reggie White---har..har...har!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:41
ERLE (strat,) ID#190411:: mozel picked up on that Caesar nonsense that annoyed me too.
That's a foul thought, and I was at a loss for words to express it. It's unAmerican.
Thanks to mozel, again.

I live on the east side of St. Lukes hospital. I will salute the place where your mother gave birth to you on my way home. St. Mary's is now offices for S.C. Johnson Co. Johnson Wax.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:40
mozel (@Radio Ads) ID#153102:: Heard yet another one. Could have been composed on Kitco. Gold does not depend on a computer for its value. Other strings played: market crash coming. Recession coming. Just another drop in the daily media deluge, but if we keep hearing them, we will know people are responding to them.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:40
tolerant1 (mozel, Namaste' and a gulp to ya from the Island that is Long...glad to see you) ID#373284:: posting...strat...before it is said...slaves were not citizens at that time...I do not care for such a distasteful manner in which a man and woman were treated then...but I believe that is what mozel was saying...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:39
themissinglink (Cheese(and good football)) ID#373403:: Got me. Visited Kenosha plenty to take advantage of the drinking age differential. Oops! Oh well, the statute of limitations must be up after 15 years.

Check this out, I won against the Army. The EPA is conducting a Preliminary Assessment at my request. http://www.familyjeweler.com/rdx.htm

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:39
John Disney__A (The Springboks ..) ID#24135:: Captain Limberger ..
.. would tear the packers heads off..
.. Im talking about MEAN..
.. you'll never know ..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:39
Earl () ID#227238:: Erle: I spent most of the '60s in Milwaukee. Left in 1970. Back then the daily source of amusement was a socially radical Catholic priest. Don't remember his name anymore but he took great personal pride in vigorously stirring the pot, at least once each day. .... Long since defrocked, I suspect. .... The NFL championship game of 1968. Damn it was cold that day. ...... By 1970, I had enough money for a tank of gas and left. ...... just kidding. I always enjoyed Milwaukee. A great library downtown.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:37
strat (p.s.) ID#93241:: I belong to my maker...I am His servant.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:36
Let X=X__A (nd the truth can be told from farfel) ID#318235:: i am rj and jujube

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:36
strat (mozel) ID#93241:: Don't get me started. Each citizen was a sovereign, a king, without subjects. No citizen was subject to another citizen. What was slavery? What was indentured servitude? A man had no say in our government unless he owned property. Freedom's always been the ideal in America...the reality has ALWAYS been something else. ( See Shay' Rebellion, 1792 ) A wise man once said civilization is made up of three things...violence, slavery, and fine words. Fine words, Mozel, fine words, but I gotta live here.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:35
John Disney__A (This site is infested..) ID#24135:: .. with REDS..
I for one ..read Marx every day ..
I like Chico best..

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:33
tolerant1 (strat, uh huh...of course a bottle of whatever is going to look great to someone) ID#373284:: who has metal and no bottle of whatever...and I got rid of the kidneys and had an extra set of lungs put in...no time wasting the space since I don't have a liver...gulp to ya...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:32
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (SPEAKING OF CHEESEHEADS!) ID#431263:: Turn on ESPN and marvel at the sight of our Japanese Freunden sportin' cheeseheads by the thousands! THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE NOT ONLY AMERICA'S TEAM--THEY'RE THE WORLD'S TEAM! At least two of those cheesehead are Wisconsinites who have yet to miss a Packer game, preseason or otherwise, even if it means spendin' $5,000.00 to fly to Japan! PACKERS 21 Kansas City 17! GO PACK!

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:32
John Disney__A ( Tell me all about it ..) ID#24135:: . Robbie boy .. Did your SOURCES tell you that
AMY BIEHL was murdered in 1993 .. that was 5 years
ago .. Amy was the product of American left wing
liberal thought .. an anti apartheit activist .. she
was driving some friend home in her car to CROSSROADS..
of all places .. SAD CASE but she was asking for
trouble
And by the way Robbie .. Im an Aussie not a Yank..
and you're not a South African and shouldnt pretend
to be .. You are a Rhodesian .. You screwed up your
ex country up as badly as possible and let Robert
Mugabe .. the ugliest rat ever born.. take it over ..
The REDS didnt sell you out .. The Rockefellers did
.. but you were too dumb to know that .. and still are..
.. you now live in the place that sold your country
down the river .. and you pretend to be an expert ..
I dont think so and In fed up with your crap.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:29
kuston (EB - nice chart) ID#195260:: EB, nice chart. Can you add some volume bars to it for me?

You really shared a putting green with MJ? I hear he's usually up for a skins game?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:29
ERLE (missinglink, FIB) ID#190411:: Typical of flatlanders to misspell cheasehead. ( CHEESEHEAD )
Just kidding, I'll visit your store sometime.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:28
strat (Erle) ID#93241:: Yeah, I too am a Badger by birth. St. Mary's Hospital. My blood runs thick up there. You might know a few of 'em. Haven't been there since '96 when we buried my Aunt Kate. Wonderful woman. German through and through. Southsiders...Catholic you know...now, God only knows.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:27
mozel (@What Our Words Reveal ) ID#153102:: As far as the government goes, render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

Who is the Caesar and by what right is he Caesar ? Caesar - Kaiser - King. Who is King and by what right ? By divine right ?

Now at America's Independence both the people and the government were sub Deo sub Lege, that is to say under God and under the Law. Each citizen was a sovereign, a king, without subjects. No citizen was subject to another citizen.

But, now we are to render to a Caesar ? We are to assent to the proposition that this Caesar has a vested right in money that we have earned by our own labor ?

A man who is a subject in his own mind can never be a freeman. He volunteers away his freedom. He has enslaved himself prospectively and will accept the first master that commands him.

And, truly, chas, this is how rights are waived under American law today by individuals for whom liberty is not even a preference much less a conviction.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:27
Earl () ID#227238:: Gollum: All of that may true enough but there are more rational ways to accomplish the same thing. Some are even productive, as well as non-redundant.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:25
ERLE (foreign friends) ID#190411:: ...Sort of makes me look stupid. I meant to say, non US friends.
I'd better watch my step.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:23
themissinglink (Wisconsin) ID#373403:: Also know as the Cheasehead state by those of us around Chicago.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:21
Gollum (Another night.) ID#43349:: Time to get my beauty rest.

Actually, I think blooper is smarter than he might appear to some. He tosses out off the cuff remarks to bounce his viewpoint off the wall and get some feedback. Then he tugs like a dog with an old sock to see if anyone with a dissenting view really believes in it or not. Sometimes he actually listens.

There have been some who don't.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:20
ERLE (strat) ID#190411:: ..Funny reply.
You know that I am a badger, RU? I think that Gazebo is, as well as Ersel.
Perhaps we could get together some time for a golden sometime.
Herr cheesehead might be a badger also.

for my foreign friends:
Wisconsin is the Badger State, named for the predominately Cornish lead miners that dug ore ( galena ) in the southwestern part of the state, ca. 1840.
Now very unfriendly to mining.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:15
Jack () ID#252127:: Carefull what we wish for, we know not of the many dead ends and road blocks along the way.

Being well fortified while occupying the high ground is no guarantee for success and maybe taken as anti-social.

Best we wish for a slow orderly decline in the markets giving its participants the chance to withdraw funds and see the value of gold and gold stocks.

That they partition for a convertible currency ( dominated mostly in gold and silver certificates issued by the US Treasury under the order of Statesmen ) and that they see the folly of the FRS and the fractional reserve system.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:15
strat (tolerant1) ID#93241:: Huh? You mean I can't drain it through my kidneys first?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:10
tolerant1 (strat, Namaste') ID#373284:: uh huh, yeah, sorta like all that gold that never made it to Fort Knox...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:10
Let X=X__A (nd i think that settles that) ID#318235:: this is on k2

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:03
farfel ( Blooper's got a first rate mind.... ) ID#341227

he is actually serious. maybe he learned about short squeezes from blooper. someone also posted all farfels swearing and freaking out last month.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:10
strat (tolerant1) ID#93241:: The thought just occurred to me that their might be a better y2k investment than precious metals...precious liquids! Please advise.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:08
strat (tolerant1) ID#93241:: You mean that stuff that never made it to the oak barrels?

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:07
tolerant1 (fin that shares, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...so if I understand your theory...we can) ID#373284:: pre-empt a major portion of the Y2K problem if we level all the 7-11s...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:05
Earl () ID#227238:: Bloop: blooper ( You use Luck Gollum ) ID#207145:
I'll use the charts. Goodnight.

It becomes more and more apparent that the only place you will use charts is in the outhouse.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:05
tolerant1 (strat, hey podge...lived in the GREAT state of Kentucky fer a while...have lots of) ID#373284:: FRIENDS there and yes...consumption of other brands occurred but tequila remained the first and foremost...nowin ifin some of dat thar priiivate label with no label could be found I would not turn it down...in fact I took quite a shine to it...uh huh...

A fine gulp o the moon to ya...

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:05
strat (Erle) ID#93241:: A thousand pardons...I didn't realize you were upstream.

Date: Sun Aug 02 1998 00:02
GoldnBoy (EJ - Gold is still used as a reserve currency. Stock are being sold to generate dollars. the Other ) ID#432112:: Reserve Currency. As the reserve currency positions shift to allow the Euro, Gold will rise

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