I would like to remind all you sympathicos that India is the home of Mother Theresa and especially Mahatma Ghandi, the epitome of the non-violent, peaceful coexistance, passive resistance groupies.

However it might be good for gold.

sure looks a lot like the formation of a similar

pattern in '86 & '87. I like what followed.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU&d=mym

( max time )

Donald - 11928983

Eldorado - 12063388

G-NuTs - 2493116

Hedgehog - 12163846

Hipshot - 9114582

Kitco Bar & Grill - 11998901

Paul - 6118980

Polarbear - 1296586

Prometheus - 11961385

Ravenfire - 12101460

Sam - 11922834

Sharefin - 11918936

Squirrel - 11954224

Steve Blizard - 11925719

Studio.r - 11949731

Tyler Rose - 11940452

Tyro - 12179114

Wombat - 11918911

India is acting in accord with its own self interest

Mozel -

Your latest posts are increasingly apocalyptic

I began to mentally insert a Yea Verily before each

This seems to help

Oh yes

DEJ @ 21:03 -

This will not happen

Huh uh

The problems of the currency conundrum are complicated enough without deliberately twisting it. I am exploring the problems in my recent reading, and will return to it.

While the Japanese were perfecting martial arts, the people of India were perfecting meditation and seeking inner peace. Again, yes, I know, not everyone, but we are talking about a pattern here. Nor do I praise the direction India has taken in the last 2000 years, resulting as it has in widespread poverty and oppression. And I am no proponent of their brand of meditation.

In general, the glorification of the wise one, not the warrior, is what we see coming out of India.

Major humbling caveat: I ain't ever been to India, I just seen it on TV and stuff.

It is certainly wrong at some level to generalize about any class or race.

Be good and hope for a better life in your next incarnation is not the kind of cultural ethos that inspires imperialist aggression, generally speaking.

Kindly pardon the rash arrogance of my thoughts, sahib.

Anyone giving a full and honest picture will have to admit that the link between the price of gold shares and the overall market is not absolutely fixed one way or the other.

Of course, sooner or later gold shares will respond to the price of gold, which marches to the beat of a different drummer, and acts in ways almost unrelated to the market. There are potentialities which would tumble the market and also raise the price of gold, as there are scenarios which cause both to fall or rise together.

I think we can agree that in general, gold funds are contrarian.

The twitchy trigger fingers in Pakistan and India.... A source of international tension that has now become a miniature, localized version of the Cold War.

China arming Pakistan, Russian arming Iran, Saddam not giving up: it ain't over yet, folks.

I am a software engineer. There are only a few places in the world that are rated at the very top in terms of the quality of their process for developing software. One is in India. That country is a force to be reckoned with in terms of its technical skills.

I am surprised the stock market in India didn't go down farther than the 4-5% it seems to have dropped.

Yes John, and I’m still thinking on the subject {which I do best FWIW in the wee hours}.

I know the idea needs fleshed out. Here are some clarifications for now. I’ll be back much later with more as I integrate the group’s feedback.

GOLD as with other physical commodities embodies the effort put into creating them and/or transporting them to where they are more useful. The latter is best exemplified by a bottle of oxygen on Mt. Everest {or the Moon} versus at sea level. Same goes for information recorded on paper, in books, on computer disk, on photographic film or other media. We have all experienced having many hours of intellectual effort wasted with a file save error! All this we have created is the sum total of our intellectual and physical capital - individually, as a community, as a nation and as a species. This accumulated capital which we can pass on to others contrasts with consumption - mindless entertainment, disposable anything and other means of pissing our effort away with nothing left to show for it.

John, You are correct that GOLD bullion, coins, etc. do not generate income - no commodities do unless they are USED to create more wealth. GOLD laying in a vault does not do this; neither do cans of tuna stored in a closet or rifle cartridges stored in an attic. Many commodities LOSE VALUE in storage such as foodstuffs, gasoline, lumber, depreciating assets {computers, etc.} and perishable information but not GOLD, coal, or bottled oxygen {if sealed well enough}.

You are correct that PAPER, UNLIKE COMMODITIES, IS WORTHLESS! Am I correct that by backing paper debt instruments you mean that in case the paper’s maker defaults that GOLD will cover the debt? Come to think of it, Mozel’s checks could act as money - passing from hand to hand {given we didn’t have to endorse them} - always with the faith that they are 1} authentic and 2} we could collect his GOLD if they bounced. The BANK OF MOZEL - his checks could have “In Mozel We Trust” and his picture on them!

Mozel, the post-it example wasn’t good - but t’was my best at the time. Hmmmm. I’ll try not to step into socialist quicksand - please bear with my humble examples. One point I’m trying to make is some people further up the “food” chain may reap more benefits from goods or services they receive than sum of what they paid for them in cash plus value added by themselves including adequate entrepreneurial profit {hang on before you crucify me as a socialist}. Example: you invent an idea for which you are paid $50,000 by a little software company. They in turn add $200,000 of intellectual and physical value and entrepreneurial profit and sell it to Bill Gates for $250,000. He then adds more value and profit and sells it to the masses for $1million. I {and 9,999 others} buy said software {which started with your idea} for $100. I may honestly derive $1,000 in value from your idea FOR WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID MORE!

What do I do with the extra $900 {that hopefully I receive in cash}? I can spend it on wine, women & song; more computer toys; a payment on a mountain hideout, stocks or GOLD. Now you, as the inventor, wish you had been paid more from the extra value created from your idea. YOU COULD SPEND IT on wine, women & song, or ON GOLD or stocks. Regardless of who gets paid for the full value of your invention, you or Bill Gates, your idea created more wealth than any of the intermediaries could conspicuously consume so they poured it into, among other places, the stock market {and maybe mining more GOLD}.

Why is the stock market overvalued? IMVHO because, among other causes, there is too much money {capital} chasing too few entrepreneurial ideas. No IPOs have been done on commercial space transportation companies, lunar or asteroid mining ventures {where PM ore is higher grade} or other NEW FRONTIER ventures - YET! Not enough {or any} IPOs have been done for Gebernax’s ghost city cleaning, dump site recycling, etc. Why? Likely because more people value wine, women & song more than such worthy ventures. Why that - because sheople may be too lazy or stupid or both to do it or it is not worth doing. Maybe it is time to throw out the drunks so the rest of us can get some work done

Gebernax, I agree that wars are not started intentionally to destroy value - though terrorists and barbarians do so - like animals that spoil what they can’t eat or carry off to store. But wars are also started, especially recently, by those who have too much time and capital on their hands and no better idea of what to do with it but to meddle in others’ affairs. This happens between neighbors as well as between countries. However they start, they are very effective in diverting production from useful enterprises to blowing each other up and destroying each others hard won capital assets. Wars waged by tyrants on their own people also destroy intellectual capital - be it executing the best and brightest or burning their books, etc. War does stimulate research but whether it is a net gain or loss - IMHO it is a loss.

Why am I pursuing this line of thought? To come up with better ideas for using and re-investing the capital created by our intellectual and physical efforts other than pissing it away or stockpiling commodities we will never use and which earn no return. THIS APPLIES TO EACH OF US PERSONALLY when we produce a good or service through our intellectual or physical effort and permit ourselves to be underpaid for it compared to the value reaped from it from someone else further up the food chain.

Fummer, your Sun May 10 1998 19:27 quote of Francisco from ATLAS SHRUGGED was apropos. The above thoughts are obviously influenced by Francisco’s and John Galt’s arguments made to those they were recruiting for the STRIKE.

Your was meant to discribe anyone's or a person's .The choice

of the word hammered was a reflection of your description of the GOLD

market as it was down less than a buck one day.I assume you used the word

for effect.Yes?Your humour escapes me ( and others ) all too often I guess.

I had a much different post in mind and written,but have realized little

will help to enlighten you on the way things are percieved outside your

( THE US ) sphere of influence.I also realize any/many posts regarding US

foreign policy regarding monitary matters are percieved as an attack on

the US and its citizens as a whole.This is unfortunate,both here in Kitco

Land and the REAL world.Those who criticize should be prepared for any

reciprocity and learn from that dialogue.We ( Canada/USA ) may not always

agree on issues of common concerns,but our open boarders,love and respect

for life and freedom and the ( North ) American way,should empower the

individual citizens of each country to voice their opinions freely here,

or anywhere else for that matter.Remember---GOLD is priced in USD and the

relative strength of the USD has an inverse affect on its price.Thus,any

information relative to the strength or weakness of said buckaroo should

be considered on topic and open to discussion without the flag waving and

chest thumping from a patriotic perspective.In fact,it appears that if

citizens invest in gold,by your stance,it is consider unpatriotic.Do I

have this right LBG?

PS:I am a patriotic Canadian and would fight for my country when and if

called upon,but I have yet to consider an investment in Gold as any less

an investment than a tech stock,an insurance policy,real estate,or what

have you.They all serve their own purpose.

Have a day.:|

E- MAIL list and price to isure@aol.com

Oooops.

I see now that you were quoting AragornIII ( where are the other two Aragorns I ask? )

So we still speak different languages

Oh well.....

But Aragorn and I understand Aragornian

Yes

Mozel, you wrote :

……intelligent application of leverage.

Now you're talking my language

Indeedy

Let's consider for starters the War between the States, USA. In 1862, to finance the war with greenbacks, the US went off the gold standard. The greenbacks fluctuated in value to as low as 33 cents, in terms of gold. But by 1872, it was back up to parity - Dec. 17, 1878, two weeks before returning to the gold standard.

What's interesting here is that a huge run on gold was expected, as people rushed to the banks, January 2, 1879, demanding gold for their bills. On the contrary, according to the New York Tribune, 1/3/79

Resumption of specie payments was formally accomplished yesterday. The United States Sub-Treasury could not get rid of gold, and its receipts exceeded payments by $268,000 . . . . The event was celebrated by a National salute and the display of flags from Government and financial buildings. source: The Art of Contrary Thinking by Humphrey B. Neill, roughly paraphrased.

Now, what we need to do is focus on the real issue of paper money: How is it backed? Let's let the banks hold the gold in their vaults, just give us paper as good as gold. Otherwise, we are at the mercy of the markets, spending enormous resources to protect ourselves and corporations from the vaguaries of the currency market.

I boxed with your brother Russell once

I think he knew Aikido instead

It was like he wasn't there

Away………..tosuckupthemace

REPORT: TRANSFER OF TECH TO CHINA WITHOUT PRESIDENTIAL WAIVER

**Newspaper Developing Blockbuster**

The DRUDGE REPORT has been briefed on a new shock story coming from Jeff Gerth of the NEW YORK TIMES. The report, expected to drop in the next week, will present evidence of what is said to be illegal sales and a transfer of technology to China 'without' presidential waiver.

Being described as a 'high impact' story, Gerth's report has become the talk of official Washington.

Gerth has collected more information and has more material on the situation than even the FBI, according to intelligence.

It's going to be one hell of a report, with deep implications, a well-placed Washington source with specific knowledge tells the DRUDGE REPORT.

Just when the story will break has become top intrigue in the capital city.

Gerth's first alarm on U.S./China tech ran Page One on a Saturday -- the day of lowest circulation for the NEW YORK TIMES.

There is something other than news going on in the newsroom if that happens this time, notes one story watcher.

The story is said to revolve around the illegal sale of classified missile guidance technology to Communist China -- as well as the satellite launching technology known as MIRVING: MULTIPLE INDEPENDENTLY TARGETED RE-ENTRY VEHICLE.

On May 2, the Chinese launched a missile that carried two satellites that will help create a global cell-phone network for MOTOROLA, super reporter Bill Gertz will reveal in an upcoming NATIONAL REVIEW.

When there are two satellites on one -- MIRVING is present.

The Administration's spin will be that this specific technology is tightly guarded, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

But clearly China has got it, they're getting it, says an insider. They are building the missiles .. they've got it somehow.

Space launch technology is identical to that used by strategic missiles.

Regarding buying platinum or any other metal:

When I take an order, it is for the ask price at that precise moment ( or bid if it is a short ) . The price is locked in. When a client has money in house we will ship immediately. If it is a new client, we will let them place the trade before money is in house, but we must receive wire or check within 24 hours. Wire transferred funds are considered immediate good funds and shipment will occur within 48 hours. Personal checks are on a ten day hold.

Regarding buy back: For 30 years my company has bought back what we sell, at the fairest bid prices I know of. This is why people come to us, for nobody else can make that claim. I just bought back some silver rounds we manufactured in the eighties, We don't even sell those anymore, but I gave her spot price. Current bid on gold Leafs and VPs: about $2 OVER spot. PE bid is about .80 over spot. Any other dealer I know off would pay spot or below.

This is not a solicitation but a response to questions asked.

Yes

Skip -

This was short covering today. Platinum and Palladium are trading on the June contract. First delivery notice is May 29. This is where you find a short squeeze happening. The price is bid ever higher in a desperate attempt to get the metal the holders of the sell side of the contract are required to deliver. The recent drops in platinum have been surrogate trades for palladium. As palladium goes through the roof, and the metal is nowhere to be had, the only protection against the palladium losses is a hedge in long platinum. This means new buying and the price will rise. This is how the PGM market is acting today.

Indeedy

http://www.glenngould.com/gg/bio1.html

That is it and thanks Ann

http://www.gould.nlc-bnc.ca/egould.htm

See ya in the wash.

PS:Leaky---you're getting a sense of humour!I like it.You need that

when your investment is getting HAMMERED into the ground,eh?: )

GOLD Forcast--AB---NC---Tick Tock........Clearer Still....Yawn.....

SUPPLY & DEMAND.

now, how does your buddy sell the coins back to Monex?

away...to watch and learn

Éß

Brother Oris....have a pickle....you'll feel fine.

away...perhaps

Éß

away...to enjoy a day off in rare partial cloudy day......golf course is too wet.....the yard is too wet to work ( wink ) .......these ( US ) markets will close soon.......oh dear...what to do......a movie looks good.

Éßߣ

http://washingtonpost.com:80/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-05/13/010l-051398-idx.html

Now, Blast AWAY oh great LGBster......for I know you must have a response....uh huh.

away.......to put on kevlar

Éß

http:///platinum.graph.html

I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that spike, Yes indeedy. Let us have some follow through during this next month..... ( before PLN8 option expiry ) ......... ;- )

My 'nipple-deep' platinum calls ( leveraged BIG TIME ) may pay off for me after all.......tick-tock, tick-tock.....the plat-rat ran up the clock......the clock struck......... ( hmmmmm )

away....to enjoy this meteoric rise.....uh huh.

ÉßOK...¡ohmy!

now wasn't that rather subdued coming from a doooood like EB ( ? )

and who is this Golden Prophet dooooood whining cause he MISSED the move in Platinum.........don't you read GP or is the gold-head stuck in the gold-sand ( ? ) ........too bad......uh huh. Pack your stuff.....or pay attention.... ( DUH )

as I wrote this Plat spot started it's rise again ( is it new buying? ) .....I LIKE IT! ( smiles )

Do people understand the role platinum is playing?

Long platinum it the only protection the palladium shorts have.

All by June, my friends

All by June

Yes

Every bone in me body is a spar, and when I spits, I spits tar!

To borrow from Eldo: HAR!

Heeee Heeee

Away……tobegiddywiththeriseofPGMs

Yes

Rob -

I like it!

I will sing this tune all day

And drive my colleagues nuts

Yes

This is the sort of thing you like.

How long have you been sailing, young man?

All me bloomin’ life, Sir!

Me mother was a mermaid, me father was King Neptune.

I was born on the crest of a wave, and rocked in the cradle of the deep.

Seaweed and barnacles are my clothes.

Every tooth in me head is a marline spike; the hair on me head is hemp.

Every bone in me body is a spar, and when I spits, I spits tar!

I’se hard, I is, I am, I are.

THE GOLDEN PROPHET - INDEEDY

You can bite me pal.

Ask yourself if you want this fight. Think of yourself as the CEO of Nike, and Mike Wallace is outside your door with a 60 minutes camera crew. Do you invite him in?

Spoiling for a fight with me has the same wisdom.

I notice none of merit coming from you on these pages

If you have naught else to offer

Take your own crap elsewhere

For I am of Kitco blood, I.

PS

Don't fight this, let it go………

Yes

Spot palladium up 44

Spot platinum up 19

Good day

Uh Huh

Looks like I'm s-s-s-stuttering

Y-Y-Yes.

Surrogate brother oris -

I agree palladium will fall like a rock, but not before the June squeeze.

Platinum will go up and stay up

It will be so

Uh Huh

WWith all this talk of gold and property rights

Did anybody buy any platinum?

I have been preaching its merits

And it is now up $18

Today it will recover the losses of the last two weeks

While gold will lie there like a wet carpet

People are making $ in platinum

Yes

Indeedy

Regarding the ANOTHER poll

He will not return

It was a HOAX people

He was also wrong

Wake up

Aztec -

Ask not I about futures, no. I trade in the physical metal, others here can give you better insight.

Yes

Once again palladium is within $20 of platinum

It will rise above

Indeedy

Fiat or digital money, as a store of value, reflects {in some proportion} the labour and intellectual effort that went into its acquisition. As such it represents a future draft on labour or intellectual effort. It is not, in and of itself, an embodiment of the human effort {physical and mental} that went into its production since it doesn't take much effort to print money or creat digital numbers.

GOLD or any commodity, unlike the above money embodies the mental and physical labour that produced it. The best store of such labour is one that cannot easily be destroyed.

GOLD can be hammered, melted, and pulverized but still stores the labour that made it. If it is vaporized or turned it to dust and spread thinly over the land then the effort that went into finding, mining and refining it is effectively undone or wasted.

SILVER which is consumed performs the service of transfering labour invested in one place and time {mining & refining} to another place in time {photography}. What business is the silver miner in? In actuality the answer is photography {or even further down the line - communication of ideas}.

OTHER commodities, such as fine wooden furniture, also embody the mental and physical skill and effort that produced it. Using that furniture takes advantage of the labour embodied therein. Burning of that furniture for heat wastes most of that labour except that which raised the tree, cut the wood and transported it to the fireplace - in which case it is “worth” only 5 cents per pound. Breaking the furniture and thowing it in the landfill effectively wastes all the effort that went into making it {and then some because of the additional effort of breaking and hauling it}.

WHAT DOES THIS ALL HAVE TO DO WITH STOCKS? Essentially this - we are producing more intellectual and physical fruits than we are consuming. We are consuming a lot but what we are paying, in market prices, does not reflect the value we get from it. A Post-it note may cost one penny but we may get a nickel worth of value from it. Someone down the line benefits from that extra 4 cents of value. They may spend some of it but they pass most of it along the line. Eventually someone along the line accumulates so much value they can not conspicuously consume it all. Much of it ends up in the stock market - for lack of anywhere else to put it!

WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO ABOUT OR WITH OUR EXCESS INTELLECTUAL AND PHYSICAL PRODUCTION? Historically wars dealt with the excess production by 1 ) cutting production and 2 ) wasting or destroying it. Using drugs or alcohol, watching TV or sports, playing mindless games, entertainment in general, bureacratic regulations and paper chases, and politics among others effectively inhibit or waste valuable effort.

WE COULD DEVELOP MORE TECHNOLOGY AND ACQUIRE MORE KNOWLEDGE. But this unfortunately only exacerbates the problem. We develop even more intellectual capital and save more physical labour which we must then burn off somehow because we can’t use it all.

GOLD can not absorb it - there simply is not enough of it. Its price would skyrocket - making all goldbugs ecstatic. But what can we do with it anyway? Dig it up and bury it again?

The STOCK MARKET can not ( we don’t think ) continue to absorb it without blowing a cork.

Like a hyperactive,intellectually gifted child - we have to find something for him or her to DO {given we don’t wish to inhibit them with narcotics - TV, etc.}

Of course there is always WAR. But can’t we find a better relief valve?

WE NEED ANOTHER FRONTIER such as space, the planets and the stars. We must direct our exess energies outward towards a frontier or inward toward better understanding ourselves. Again - with both endeavors, barring wars or excessive narcotic use - we will still find ourselves with excess human energy to burn.