Good night you all - need to get some sleep.

Earl -

The shaman has left

A large smear of green paste on my forehead

I must go out in the moonlight

And stub my toe

On a dead chicken

This the shaman said

To hell with the shaman

Yes

RS-

Actually I stole that from a helicopter scene in, Platoon.

I made no claim to this

Nor do I tell jokes

I prefer humor to be spontaneous

And my soldiers to not be humorless

Get of your high horse

You are not the only one who has served

There are others

If we are agreed on that basis, then we agree.

But many hereabouts speak of the unholy paper

And then rush out to get more

Is a spade still a spade?

And what is that Pope doing in the woods?

Shouldn't the Pope just take the damn spade out to the woods with him and bury it? ( Not the spade )

These are important questions

They are

As far as your comment on Are the boys prioritizing 'Nuclear' ?

Yes, at least that was the case the last time I talked to people in the biggest office building in the Washington. Again, I am not so sure what the rest of nuclear powers do about this issue.

Crazytimes -

I am sorry if I offended.

It is the TOOTH!!!!

It is

Earl -

THE TOOTH, MAN! THE TOOTH!

It was the tooth talking

Really

The rich always get more

That is the definition of being rich

I am trying to stay away from tactical market opinions posted here; causes too much bleating.

I will say I am planning to cover all my shorts soon

Yes

I must admit I always chuckle at the sheer ludicrousness ( apologies aurator ) of that old song, 'Duck and Cover' -- just in case of nuclear attack during the cold war.

Don't lay into me now.....

I just got my tooth drilled to a nub

Is that not worth mercy

Yes?

Crazytimes wrote:

Oh…. never mind. His handle speaks first

Uh Huh

Got the ammo loaded in the Hummer and the laser sights zeroed.

Few guns, LOTS of ammo.

Will do word search for crisis.

Will no one save me?

Then save yourselves

Ping?

Shwang!

Shwing! ( oops, got that from Waynes World )

Better duck and cover

Yes

However, in defense of our medical system, we are moving into an era of bioengineered medicines that will revolutionize the 'weed killer' approach of chemotherapy, for example. Recently there have been dramatic cancer remissions in terminal patients using immunotherapy. Also, one can taylor drugs with a toxin such as ricin on one end of a molecule, and a homing protein on the other end. If you design wisely, you can kill on only the cancer cells, instead of all the cells ( with a little less killing of the noncancer cells ) . Minimally invasive surgery or 'bloodless' surgery is becoming more popular as well.

Lastly, here is the killer. Just how much of this medical care can you afford? What if I told you that the average Taiwanese has access to better medical care than you do, because they can afford it, and we can't? Of course the very wealthy can always get medical care -- I am talking about our vanishing middle class. The Taiwanese are much more careful not to inflate their currency than we are.

Here is the gold question: Gold and gold stocks are going to bottom in a week or two. Despite the fact that it is a political metal, gold can have excellent rallies, like the one the Oldman benefited from over the last few months until now. What do your floor traders say? Has the selling or potential selling from SEAsia or Europe already been discounted? How much more might we expect if China devalues? Comments?

Miro -

I agree entirely. The most important thing western medicine seems to leave out, is the psychology of medicine. When people feel better emotionally, people get better physically.

Guess I'm grumpy, had a molar prepped for a crown today and the jaw is griping.

I was however, very pleased with the high speed drills and the excellent local anesthetic, for I did not feel a thing.

Without these advances, dentistry would be more like, The Marathon Man

Oil of Cloves

Yes

That was the best response you ever gave me.

Thanks

Sorry to poke another hole in the logic maestros, but:

Lets see…….. The dollar used to be backed by gold, yes?

And who held the gold backing this dollar?

It was the Government?

What makes anyone think that the government, which they so distrust, would cough up that gold for that paper? Fine, let 'em back the bills, but they still got the gold. They also got the guns. Waive your gold backed paper all you want, it will not get you any gold, nor will it stop lead.

The inherent flaws and contradictions in the Holly Goldbug mentality seems not to bother them one bit. Paper is worthless!, they say, and go off to buy puts or calls or pray for a gold backed Euro, which ( get this ) will be the strongest paper of all! God indeedy be praised and pass the Euro.

Gold in the hand is gold.

All else

Is not

Clone -

Its easy…….

God spoke from the Mount to these fellows

Or perhaps it was the peyote

And God ordained GOLD sacrosanct among all metal thingies.

Forget about the whole render unto Caesar what is Caesar's thing, and that Golden Calf Moses smote after a very prolonged squawk…….

Uh Huh

And if I read CRISIS one more GODDAMN time here, thats it, I'm pulling out the automatic weapons and finding a bell tower somewhere.

Question: How can you shoot inocent women and children?

Answer: Easy, you don't lead 'em off by so much.

YES

Am flabbergasted that LGB even needed to put his argument forth regarding superior western medical care.

For every schmoe that has his tale of woe about how the system let him/her down, count in the thousands the lives improved and suffering avoided.

Seems the anarchists hereabouts would gladly do without this tainted technology. Perhaps they should throw their computer out the window also. Their arguments are strait from the Ted Kazinski manifesto.

When we wake up tomorrow - those of us who are basically happy and let not fear be the driving passion - the world will be much the same as today.

So many choose to live their lives in fear filled warrens, scratching the dirt back to cover the opening to keep the world outside.

Some pretty smart folks here seem to ignore that this earth has never seen more prosperous times. The entire world is getting better every day.

Those that want to hide from this think themselves good and right and imagine that only they have eyes so keen as to ferret out the peril that is waiting to pounce.

I say, increase the meds, go to five point restraints if needed, and don't spare the cattle prod when they get out of line; for it is these very same folks who think us all so stupid and blind. They think markets go one direction; they think they are actually saying something wise, and showing us something we can't see.

They show us arrogance with this posture, and grave disrespect. We have eyes too. We have minds of our own to think. We don't need their whimpering. We can take care of ourselves.

Most importantly, they are proven wrong again, and again, and again, and again…..

But they will continue.

Yes

They will

Large susidies,high taxes and idiotic regulations are not a good mix for succesfull economies.The only way Italy could qualify for the G7 financialy was to count 20% for there underground economy, which in all probability was much larger. For anyone that reads much history they know that the French are really not the sharpest knives in the drawer.Spain does make some good leather goods and cheap Red Eye, but they sleep all afternoon, they could not hold Germanys underwear.

Keep a sharp eye.. The Germans are smart, very aggressive .

And will rule Europe.

In deference to our sponsor I must point out that gold salts, injected into the muscle, are used as a modern medical treatment for arthritis. Ouch!

On the other side, you should know ( being on the edge of medical knowledge ) that many alternative medicine treatments, which used to be laughed at by scientific community, are lately generally accepted, and paid for by the insurance companies. Many drugs were not discovered in medical research labs but modeled after primitive medicine practiced by tribes from the middle of nowhere.

There are many ways how to advance the science, and IT IS TRUE that some of the advancement is slowed down by competing experts who need to prove that their theory is the only one valid. Yes, there are many charlatans out there in alternative treatment, but there are some real pearls too. Sometimes it takes forever for the US medical community and FDA to agree on some approaches or drugs. E.g., my wife was using some drugs back in Europe in 1977 which were approved by FDA only a couple of years ago. Not everything is black and white, however, that does not fit into your binary logic of thinking.

Wilhelm Reich was a former student of Sigmund Freud who somehow was too much for that german guru of psychiatry, and moved to the US to enlarge on his 'Orgone' theory. He reminds me of Tesla. While I have not been able to decipher Reich's works into terminology I can understand, or analyse his experiments, what the FDA did to him was appalling. Whatever you think about the truth or falsehood of his experiments, he was a brilliant person, and as far as I can tell, never defrauded anyone. But -- the medical/political establishment proceeded to destroy him anyway.

By the way, what I think Wilhelm Reich was on to is that he was probably looking at the 'Aether' or zero point energy. I am not saying that all of his claims were correct, as he never spoke in terms a modern physical scientist would understand, but you have to realize that he was trained as a psychiatrist. He could have discovered something, but just used the wrong terminology to describe it, and got attacked by the establishment. Pons and Fleischmann made a similar mistake. His 'orgone energy' boxes look just like electrostatic shields to me -- what one would need to assay the electrostatic potential of the atmosphere. This electrostatic potential is variable, and affected by solar activity, as well as being linked to our weather. However, I see no way Wilhelm Reiches atmospheric modification guns could work ( but I am willing to be convinced ) . Another point -- we now know from studies of electrons captured in laser beams that the apparent mass of an electron is dependent on the intensity of that beam, and that spontaneous nuclear decay is not that spontaneous after all, and somehow driven by the virtual photons of the ZPE. Perhaps the electrostatic potential of the earth's atmosphere, too.

So -- my point is that the suppression of Wilhelm Reich's work may very well have set back the study of ZPE well over 50 years. Wilhelm Reich need not have been correct with his interpretation of his work -- but he did not need to be -- all that was needed was that others would try to understand and reinterpret his findings. I suspect that the Frenchman discussed today is much the same.

I guess this also demonstrates another aspect of human behavior: Ideas that appear to be in direct violation of accepted standards of practice are ridiculed and suppressed, especially if these ideas are not easily understood. Those who suppress individuals like Wilhelm Reich will not be stopped simply because he has harmed or defrauded noone.

Hope you enjoyed this.

Of interest? From the Wierd News section of my local newspaper, Maybe most already know this,

According to a march report in The New Republic, some Wall Street investment houses celebrate the incredible bull market by engaging in ritual worship of Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan.

One firm holds a cake party and songfest on Greenspan's March 6 birthday, and another has outfitted a special office with Greenspan memorabilia and a red leather chair in which bond traders can sit and meditate on the great man.

Takes all kinds.

Maybe old news also to most but there is a push to issue an indictment on Microsoft before the launch of Windows98 which would no doubt hold up the release which would no doubt hurt the market.

Similar news is out on Intel as well.

Aurator - 11944264

Donald - 11928983

Eldorado - 12063388

G-NuTs - 2493116

Hedgehog - 12163846

Hipshot - 9114582

Kitco Bar & Grill - 11998901

Paul - 6118980

Polarbear - 1296586

Prometheus - 11961385

Sam - 11922834

Sharefin - 11918936

Squirrel - 11954224

Steve Blizard - 11925719

Studio.r - 11949731

Tyler Rose - 11940452

Tyro - 12179114

Wombat - 11918911

( millions of dollars )

Item: 1996

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Current income………………………………………………25,164

Current expenses………………………………………………1,948

Operating expenses……………………………………1,639

Earnings credit granted…………………………………309

Current net income……………………………………………23,216

Net additions to ( deductions from, - ) current net income………-1,639

Cost of reimbursed services to Treasury……………………………38

Assessments by the Board of Governors…………………………565

For expenditures of Board………………………………163

For cost of currency………………………………………403

Net income before payments to Treasury………………………20,975

Dividends paid……………………………………………………265

TRANSFERRED TO SURPLUS ( note2 ) [see below]………………635

PAYMENTS TO TREASURY ( note2 ) …………………………20,083

------------------------------------------------------------------

note2. In addition to the amounts shown, $106 million in Federal Reserve Bank surplus was transferred to the Treasury as statutorily required.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[authors note: I believe ( note2 ) refers to the statues I posted on the forum concerning transfers in 1997:1998. Why does it show up in 1996? I believe that the requirement is October 1 1996-1998. This might possibly mean that four times as much will be transferred in 1997: 400milions, and 300millions in 1998? And all to buy gold or pay down the debt? We can dream I guess.]

Date: Sat May 02 1998 01:10

Bart Kitner ( Kitco ) ( I Seek You ) ID#261187:

Copyright © 1998 Bart Kitner ( Kitco ) /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

One of the biggest problems in trying to make this site a useful and informative discussion group is keeping it from turning into a chat line. Someone

recently posted a response to a request to have us set up an IRC server which basically made the distinction between a chat line and a discussion

group.

In an effort to eliminate the barroom banter but without losing the regulars, I have a strong suggestion that I'd like to put forward. It'll require a

collective effort to make it work but will allow full freedom to chat without the restriction of netiquette rules , while at the same time improving the

overall quality of this site.

For those of you unfamiliar with ICQ,it's fun, often addictive and was even the subject of a letter of concern from a local high school to the parents of

kids who found it far more stimulating than hanging out in the park until midnight. ICQ is not a video game but rather an internet communication tool

that is way far ahead of any kind of chat room in terms of features, ease of use, and functionality.

Once installed on your computer ICQ will allow you to chat ( by keyboard ) privately with any single or group of Kitco participants while connected

here or anywhere else. When you connect to the internet all others who have also installed ICQ will know that you've just arrived online ( can be

disabled ) and you'll be able to check the list of all the other Kitco participants who are also concurrently connected. Then you can initiate private

chats, group chats, send messages, mail, pictures whatever while still maintaining the same level of anonymity that you desire.

When you set up ICQ it asks for an email address and nickname ( handle ) as well as a bunch of other optional personal information. But at the very

least you need to register these two items. For our purposes I suggest that everyone use their Kitco handle as their nickname, and if you want, use

nickname@icqkitco.com as your email address. It won't function for email but will identify you as a participant or lurker of our group.

To support this effort I'm willing to allow as much bandwidth as needed to discuss ICQ on our GOLD discussion group. Feel free to post all the

questions and answers necessary about setting it up and using it. . ( But you probably won't need much help, since it installs flawlessly and is really

simple to use )

The ICQ homepage is at http://www.icq.com/, but if you want to go direct to the download page you want http://38.180.207.24/download/. At only

1.6 megs it's a quick download and installation is a breeze.

Please try it. By adding a new dimension of interaction it will improve both the quality and enjoyment of this site for lurkers and contributors alike. I

guarantee that you'll wonder how you ever managed without it, or we'll refund your purchase price on or before Jan 1, 2000. Oh yeah, it's also free.

On my chart, a trendline drawn through the Jan. and March. Gold lows is also still intact. Right now, it's about $1 below the 20-week MA.

On both measures, Gold has not broken down yet.

Back at the end of September last year, when Gold briefly spiked to $338, all the technical parameters were in place for a Gold bull market except one. the 20 week MA was still pointing down, although the price had risen above it.

This time, the 20 week MA has been trending up for well over a month. Gold has remained above it throughout that period. It is still above the MA, albeit only just.

Technically, there is no resumption of the bear market yet on the chart. Gold is neutral. In fact, the Dow is far more ominous, having traded back below the 9000 level today.

This is a real boon. We've been clarifying some of the news details, researching more Y2K, and discussing investment strategies at a level that would be impossible here at the discussion site.

Polarbear, it is impossible to find you. Too many of that name on ICQ. Somehow I missed getting you on my list. Studio.R, you can't be found by nickname. Don't know your number.

Look forward to hearing from you. Promey

So - we learn about our future from him -- and I hope we are helping him, too.

When there is rioting in the streets, I doubt that there will be much difference between numismatic and bullion price of coins. After a semblance of wealth returns, then the price differential will return.

He preferred platinum if it came down to 390. Felt it was headed for a good rally. FWIW.

What worries me more than a little bit is the mainland China has little to lose from a significant devaluation. Japan and the Western world have alot to lose from a Chinese devaluation, because it is their money that will be gone. China is so big that investors will still flock over there to invest a year or two from now, even if there are massive loan defaults now.

I think the events unfolding during the last several days shows the value of linking fundamental and technical data in investing. Technical trading clearly has the upper hand most of the time -- but news of an imminent ( ? ) devaluation in a major country such as China can have a devastating effect on the equities and gold markets. Events in Japan are probably linked to this as well, given how much money the have invested in China and other SEAsian countries. Fortunately other precious metals markets are less affected by such things.

Anyone know the black market price of the Yuan? Still 7% differential, or is it more now?

Are the Indonesian riots spreading to mainland China?

My intuitive guess about this is that this gold deflationary episode is more likely to be of similar duration as the Oct 97 situation. But -- drops below 280/oz will be very short-lived, if at all.

I maintain my bearish market and gold equities market stance until we get an 'all clear' message of some kind regarding the devaluation of the Chinese Yaun.

Anyone have more information?

So far, I have found nothing to indicate that China has devalued. Anyone know black market exchange rates for the Chinese Yuan? Vronsky, I agree with you that the staying power of the Japanese markets is phenomenal. But I think they had some help from the AG and RR PPT.

Heard about the new BOJ suicide -- that makes me think that problems normally hidden are coming out into the open -- that may be good news or bad news for Japan. Hard to tell. Good news if this is a new sign of openness. Bad news if it just the tip of the iceberg. Either way, Japan is still at risk if China devalues.

I am no match for Oldman when it comes to experience. Mixing technical with fundamental, I would guess that China will do their best not to devalue until the Indonesian or Japanese situation and the tremors in the US/World markets diminish. If so, Oldman may be right that the US markets will recover soon. Interesting this time that the markets are slowly dropping, with no 'twitches' down, as we had in the past. Bullish? On the other hand, I have noticed index volume increasing with dropping price, a bearish sign. I think it all hinges on SEAsia.

From the beginning. Recently a Kitcoite was posting portions of the Fed. Res. Act, covering such things as ownership of stock, payment of yearly 6 percent dividend, and payment of surplus each year to the Treasury. I was just reviewing one of my most favorite books titled Out of Debt, Out of Danger, by the late Congressman from California, Jerry Voorhis, published in 1943.

Chapter 10 is titled The Federal Reserve Banks and The Credit of The United States. In this chapter Mr. Voorhis sets forth 10 reasons why the American people should hold every dollar of 'proprietary interest' in, and complete ownership of, the Twelve Central Federal Reserve banks.

Jumping to REASON VI, first paragraph, he states The original Federal Reserve Act, section 16, paragraph 4, provided that the Federal Reserve Banks should pay a small rate o

Gold is sorta tanking, howz'bout some the more sedate

instruments out there, I'm talking CATs, LIONs, TIGRs,

LEAPs, LEPRDs and the like, a rather serene arena where

the only sinking of teeth to be done is in Polident.

The holding period of return can be increased though,

through leverage, and getting the better vertical

spreads obtained through member firms.

Next, perpetual consols.

CAU closes most of hedge position and

reduces debt by 9 millon.

Chapter 10 is titled The Federal Reserve Banks and The Credit of The United States. In this chapter Mr. Voorhis sets forth 10 reasons why the American people should hold every dollar of 'proprietary interest' in, and complete ownership of, the Twelve Central Federal Reserve banks.

Jumping to REASON VI, first paragraph, he states The original Federal Reserve Act, section 16, paragraph 4, provided that the Federal Reserve Banks should pay a small rate of interest to the Government on all Federal Reserve notes issued. This was, no doubt, done because it was so plain that the money-creating power was being g

YES....OK.....

away...to the great western forum for game three.....and a thorough thrashing of sonics................. ( is Ted finished with his Mansion yet ) ? go lakers ( ! )

Éßmissesthat'ole'coot

astigmatic-thong-tester-boy......seen any OD's lately ( ? )

GC500+in98 -

There is more than one voice on this forum. You chose to listen to the louder voices. Others here are making profits on these moves. These markets move two directions. Playing one side of the coin means you will never see it come up Heads and will more than likely take it in the tail.

OK

Platinum say's, in is deceptively small and weakened voice, Buy me here, I am soooooooooooo cheap. I will go up. I promise.

Should we believe our little white lass?

I think so

Yes

The Play is in the Platinum

Yes

It is the LGB indicator of the state of the gold market. I think he has taken to heart the idea that this forum needs a dependable gold REPORT. Borrowing from the book of ANOTHER, the As Before ( ASB ) or Not As Before ( NAB ) indicators were created by LGB to give us the most succinct gold report possible.

I believe the ASB/NAB indicator is one of the most useful tools to come out of this forum. Some on this forum think a NAB indicator is EXTREMELY BULLISH for gold. Others Think an ASB indicator is EXTREMELY BULLISH for gold. Still others believe that a mixed picture of ASB/NAB is EXTREMELY BULLISH for gold.

Since LGB seems to be sleeping in this morning, I took the Liberty to make this morning's gold report.

It is NAB

Yes

The Irish finally got it RIGHT.

The gold market is NAB

Gold: 293-295

Silver: 5.30-5.50 ( But APH know more than I, so this is probably wrong )

Platinum: 375-380

Palladium: 270-280