- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:53
quion97 (Corrections add and lived,mountains) ID#23398: - sorry about that.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:53
HighRise (Myridom) ID#401237:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
The XAU has climbed 25 points in 3 months, and Gold has gone from 280 to 310.
I don’t know about anyone else; but, I will be cashing in some of my chips when Gold hits 400; that is another 90 bucks, and at this pace, that would take place in 9 months - I think.
My math may be wrong but it doesn’t really matter - you get the idea. How do you come to the 3+ years conclusion?
If you are talking about retirement age - I am ready for the beach now - bring on the 400 Gold any time and I am out of here. And I will still have a bunch still riding the Gold elevator up.
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU&d=1y
HighRise
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:49
quion97 (@Y2KBUG) ID#23398: - I also wanted to ad, you have to some faith, do you sincerely think that all senior executive lie. Maybe in the White House they do. I have more trust in Corporate North America. I am well aware of all the games and the politics. I leaved with that garbage for years and certainly do not miss it. All in all at the of the year the results where there. Most humans are honest.Good night dream of mountain of gold.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:47
cherokee__A () ID#344308: -
and gold........mmmmmm
http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/fstwin21.gif
damned close....she's fixin to fly...kwimjd? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:46
jims (Help) ID#252391: - In all the flurry last night, fighting lack of quotes on this good board I over stressed my computer and lost my bookmarks. Can any body refresh my menory: Where was I finding COMEX Silver stocks and gold stocks pile information,
and second what is the URL for the Kitco page that diplays the thlast three day's charts, thanks
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:46
Jack (Veneroso) ID#252127: -
The transcript of the conference call with F. Venerso has been held back another week ( from 4/8 to 4/15 ) .
Why can Canarc Resources get this info out as initially promised?
I'm still going to check daily after considering Canarc's reliability. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:45
Myrmidon (Correction on my previous post) ID#339212: -
Read Yuppie instead of Yappie, sorry - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:42
Myrmidon (@ HighRise) ID#339212: -
In contemplating the subject and defining us as boomers
YOU ARE RIGHT, that is what we most are.
I tend to relate boomers with Yappies and this is my mistake.
If we rephrase: Yappies are not buying but boomers do
then this will be a correct statement.
Unfair to relate every boomer to a Yappie, I shouldn't. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:40
cherokee__A () ID#344308: -
my june bond puts await.....oh yes....
http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/fstwin52.gif - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:38
cherokee__A () ID#344308: -
the us$----
looking like today was the day....bonds next..
http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/fstwin15.gif - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:37
Auric (EB) ID#255151: -
Your choice on the date, mate. I am content to use the price as quoted on Kitco at the close on April 10, but am OK with Monday too. My only concern is that the short sellers are now aware of this wager and are going to pull another weekend surprise in order to drive Gold below $310. ( Remember that Aussie Gold sale announcement on July 4th weekend? ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:36
HighRise (Myrmidon) ID#401237:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
How many of the Gold Bugs are Boomers?
You have just answered your own question and argument.
I am on the leading edge of the Boomers, and I am never counted as a Boomer. Those born in 1942, worldwide, are the first of the increase in population wave.
Through ever age level, they have never been ready for us.
When we started school they ran out of text books.
When we hit middle school they ran out of classrooms.
When we needed housing they ran out of apartments and homes.
When we hit 30, time to start our business, they ran out of money.
I again say that if one wants to make money in this world follow the Boomers.
The Boomers may ride this market all of the way. They may have enough money, and rotate enough, to enable the Dow/S&P/ etc. to survive - and as a result come out a winner when they cash in their chips for retirement. However I still maintain that for this to happen Gold and Gold Mining Shares will be a part of this action sooner or later. And when they do look out.
Remember, the leading edge of the boomers retirement age is at hand NOW! And just as they are selling their homes and moving to the Beach; They will move as fast as they can, to financial security, when they see the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming freight train.
I ask you, didn’t I and others here and around the world already make this move?
HighRise
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:31
STUDIO.R (@God of Fire.............(friend of the Sword).........) ID#288369: - I really kinda' like that nickname...farfelonius....could stick?
Btw, I'm hittin' le sacque early....that sword stuff last night wore me out.....and I'm quite sure it wore everyone else out too. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:22
quion97 (@Y2KBUG) ID#23398:
Copyright © 1998 quion97/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I appreciate your post, all the annual reports I was refering to have been past on to a friend, at this time I do not have them to verify in details. The last I read was the Noranda report, the CEO
was very clear they will be compliant. I sense your involvement and the fact that you are concerned, I am a Canadian and the info I have seen puts us close to the U.S. Once again I am certain that serious companies will do what as to be done.
I also worked for one of the largest Corporation in the world.I can guarantee without naming them they will be compliant.We always had top I.S. services with up to date systems.When a member of senior management met it was not an issue because of the high investment to keep these systems up to date.Some of the suppliers readyness was an issue.
As mentioned earlier will pay very close attention to this matter in in comming annual reports. Still expect half a dozen to come in . Including some of the largest corporations in Canada. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:22
Myrmidon (@ all on Boomers and XAU) ID#339212: -
if the XAU performs as the DOW did from 1,000 to 9,000
we expect XAU at 550. If it happens over
the same time period will not be of much use
unless you are below 50 now.
A reasonable time frame will be for XAU to 550
in not more than 3 years. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:18
eck333 (Y2K) ID#150172:
Copyright © 1998 eck333/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I also work in the computer field in a large US company. Computer programming is difficult to quantify. You rarely get it right the first time. Often inadequate testing is done. I have never seen a moderately complex programming task accomplished on time. I'm certain that there will be problems.
I believe liquidity will be the main issue/problem. Manual systems will be instituted, but will take forever. Only the most important/connected clients will get service. How about lines at banks? Sound good?
An insightfull comment was made by a co-worker. He said that there could be problems in 1999. Reason being, is that we programmers have used '99' as the largest possible number when doing comparisions. This is TRUE, even I have done that in my programs.
I have also noticed that managers almost never tell the truth when something is going wrong. I don't believe people when they say don't worry, be happy. Of course we have to be happy, but not ignorant.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:18
STUDIO.R (@Isure..... of what?) ID#288369: - Was that 20:12 you or your alias? isure2?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:14
sharefin (It's all relative, it's all perception.) ID#284255:
- - Highrise
In a bear market I would agree that we will have rotation.
And that boomer's will move to gold stocks and cyclicals as opposed to chasing banks and high techs.
As you say,
This may be happening now.
But I was referring to a market crash.
Over the last ten years
The relative ratios have changed.
People like banks, and don't like gold.
This will change again over many years.
As many point out here
We are at the beginnings of a new gold bull
But in a market crash.
The relative ratios,
Won't change in a week.
( The time needed for a crash )
The relative ratios for all assets.
Will be re-adjusted for all paper.
Instantly across the board.
As per previous crashes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1st Dec Lihir was @ $1.39
Dow @ 7800
Two days ago Lihir @ $2.32
Dow @ 9160
They both have room to fall.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:12
HighRise (Myrmiden) ID#401237: -
Remember it does not take a very large percentage of Boomers to move markets. If just 1 or 2% of them move, the available supply of shares and ounces will be sucked up.
This is why the Dow has rocketed up, there are not enough shares available for all of the buyers.
SUPPLY and DEMAND
Look what they have done to the DOW.
I suggest that they are now rotating to the XAU.
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU&d=1y
HighRise
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:10
STUDIO.R (@Myrmidon.....80/20 .....20/80.....I'm just a....) ID#288369: - GOLDBOOMER....yea.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:08
EJ (@quion97: Y2KBug has a point) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - While no one can say for certain the extent of the problems any one company will experience from the Y2K problem, I cannot recommend looking to a company's annual report for the straight scoop. An annual report is simply not the place to put bad news. If you own stock in an American company, the safe ( read: ass-covering in the event of shareholder law suits ) way for the company to disclose a problem that may potentially impact stockholders, but without drawing a lot of attention to it, is to bury the possible negative impact on revenue and earnings in their quarterly 10Q filing with the SEC. I'll be keeping an eye on lots of 10Q reports in the quarters leading up to Y2000 to guage potential impact.
I agree with your feelings about the importance of investment balance. It makes the difference between investing and gambling. You can win or lose bigger with the latter, while you have a better chance of making money with less risk with the former.
Regards,
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:07
STUDIO.R (@HighRise.......) ID#288369: - Perfect sense. Gracias...I'm glad you reposted!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:07
Myrmidon (@ HighRise) ID#339212: -
Maybe goldbugs are primarily propelling the XAU,
say 80% of its move, the rest 20% attributed to boomers. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 23:03
HighRise () ID#401237:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I posted this on 03/01/98, and I believe that what I said then is beginning to happen.
_____________________________________
Remember The Numbers Volume
Some things we all should remember:
The % of the population between the ages of 46 and 56 is massive.
These same people have driven all markets for the last 50+ years.
They had a lot to do with Golds last big surge - they still have the rings, coins, and chains in their lock boxes.
They new the value of Gold then and will be quick to recognize the value in the future.
Just as the Dow has been driven to new heights by these people, Gold and Gold mining shares will be driven upward as they rotate out of the Dow.
The laws of supply and demand will rule as never before. There is a finite amount of Gold and Gold mining shares.
If just a small % of this Age group try to buy Gold the markets will be overwhelmed by the demand.
Even the cheap ECO, RYO, TVX, stocks will be in high demand. They will appreciate at multiples that boggle the imagination.
The past few months have shown that the markets are churning and investors are rotating from one type of stock to another.
It won’t matter if only a small percentage are able to rotate into Gold and Gold mining shares, we are talking about millions trying to buy millions of shares and ounces that don’t exist.
The Gold market is already depressed, therefore I am not sure it will collapse when the Dow retreats again. Investment dollars have always eventually sought out the best value and this time will be no different.
There are many clouds on the horizon, it is just a matter of time now.
_____________________________________
The average Boomer on the street, be they Dr. or carpenter, will eventually see the light - granted some will be wiped out; however, I would guess the Boomers on Wall Street are already moving into Mining Shares - just look at the XAU chart.
HighRise
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:58
STUDIO.R (@the players of the Great Equities Bull Market of the Nineties.....) ID#288369: - Dad always said that a fool was born every minute.....I guess now you need one born every second. Huh? Keep your fingers crossed.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:55
Myrmidon (HighRise,) ID#339212: -
Every boomer I talk to is negative about gold,
and these are lawyers, doctors, engineers, all kinds.
How can they turn into gold stocks?
Even if the world's gold mining stocks double
their capitalization will be half the $114 billion
of Intel.
I tell you for sure, Boomers are not buying now. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:54
Allen(USA) (Y2K (twice hourly per my contract until '00)) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I have compiled 200+ pages of testimony before Congress, statements and press releases mostly by people like Yardeni, Yourdon, Greenspan, Kelley, etc which in clear language present the problem we are facing as a global disaster. Not recession. Not depression. We are talking lights out.
I have tried to weed out the second hand testimony and press hash from the top level authorities and reports. 200+ pages. 25+ pages per week being added to this pile. Everyone will reach their own conclusion.
There are a number of issues which make it hard for us to grasp this thing. 1 ) many of us have little general knowledge of what is not our specific speciality line of work. Its hard to visualize just what other people are talking about if they are wringing their hands over things which we do not understand. 2 ) We hardly recognize the extent of interdependencies in our world. As long as we have known it things have been stable. The systems and their interdependencies are invisible to us. We do not understand what we have not experienced. 3 ) The problem is so fundamentally unsettling that we shut off emotionally when we see the first glipses of its monsterous size. It is very difficult to believe there will be a problem like this when all around the world continues to spin in its carefree fashion. People shop. Jobs are there. Media blathers. This creates a feeling of discontinuity from reality..it couldn't possibly be real, could it?
I have over two hundred pages of information from very reputable people who are not joe average worry wart. These people are at the pinacle of society and they ARE taking it seriously.
Yardeni's recent ( April 7th ) speech before the BIS is an eye popper. Read it. When was the last time you or I were asked to address the BIS. They asked him and he gave them both barrels. The end of society as we know it. I'd say that's pretty straight forward. There is no ambiguity. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:47
Ted (Caper...Weagle is a joke,eh(good contrary indicator!)) ID#330175: - won't miss Jessom either~~~~~~~~
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:45
HighRise (sharefin ) ID#401237: -
That was true in 87 crash when Gold mining stocks were high also.
87 @ 5000?.....I don't have the exact numbers.
ECO 12-13 ?
98 DOW @ 9000?
ECO 2 - 3 ?
It is not the same situation today....IMHO
If the DOW is going down now and Gold Mining Equities are going up. This is a rotational market, the boomers will move into Gold next.
This may be happening now.
HighRise
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:43
chas (Studio.R re your 21:51) ID#342282: - If they ( the Treasury ) have the option to buy the currencies and trade for gold, they would be the Greater Fool not to do so.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:37
Isure (@EB) ID#368244: -
If you could just hold this 1795 silver dollar in you hand, you would be hooked forever.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:37
EJ (Friends: any advice on BGR Precious Metals) ID#45173: - Recommended to me by an equities market investment consultant over all the other precious metal mutual funds, while holding his nose. Thx.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:36
Y2KBug__A (quion97, re: 2000 Problem) ID#237250:
Copyright © 1998 Y2KBug__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - You wrote The 2000 problem will also be solve by most good organization. I receive many annual reports of blue chip companies, all mention without exception that they will be year 2000 compliant. The ones that are not who cares.
My dear quion, I must take exception to this statement in the strongest terms. I am a programmer in the deep dark trenches of a large US utility company, and have contacts in many and various industries, all of us working feverishly on the 2000 problem. Annual reports will say nothing specific about the 2000 problem, or 'Y2K' as we in the industry refer to it, because to admit serious problems would burst the equity bubble for the company giving such admission. Be sure that if such an admission is forthcoming, the big boys will be out of that particular stock in advance.
If Y2K is not going to be a catastrophe, why is Lloyd's of London, experts at determining risk factors, estimating a Trillion ( with a T ) dollars worth of lawsuits? Why has GM budgeted US$500,000,000 to attack the problem this year alone? Why are witnesses before the U.S. Congress now calling for triage of our national infrastructure, on an emergency basis? Please preview www.euy2k.com, www.year2000.com press clippings page, and www.yourdon.com for serious information on the problem.
If I may take the liberty of noting, no offense intended, your post appears to originate from outside the US. As of now, the US and the UK are more-or-less tied for best-prepared ( or better, least-unprepared ) for Y2K. Other countries, from all that I can gather, are in far worse shape, although to varying degrees. Preparedness is key -- forewarned is forearmed. Examine the situation for yourself, and take whatever steps you feel necessary, but rest assured, Y2K is serious, and potentially catastrophic, on a worldwide basis. Do not treat it lightly.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:32
Caper (Quion @ One More Point) ID#300202: - My brother in law whom I am very close with is with CIBC a la Toronto-
Bay St-his reply also-not a problem-we are dealing with it in our quarterly report. Would like to srewtinize this quarterly report. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:30
STUDIO.R (@EBcurator........I'm not sure...but....do I sense.......) ID#288369: - A SEA CHANGE in your desire to own gold ( a down-deep yearning, craving, burning lust for gold ) ...You know reformed paperists can become very vocal bug-advocates.....AA and such.....
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:28
Rob (platinum) ID#410114:
Copyright © 1998 Rob/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Kaplan had this about Platexco ( PGMI ) a SA platinum co.
Two offshore platinum companies, Australia's Aquarius and Canada's Platexco, are
pushing ahead with plans to start new platinum mines in South Africa, according to a report
in the South African Financial Mail. The Kroondal project near Rustenburg is furthest
advanced and is scheduled to start production in mid-1998. At full rate, it is expected to
produce 100,000 ounces of platinum annually. Kroondal will also produce 50,000 ounces of
palladium and 15,000 ounces of rhodium a year. Production at Platexco's Winnaarshoek
was forecast at 150,000 ounces of platinum and 90,000 ounces of palladium. Platexco owns
an option to buy mineral rights to the Winnaarshoek and Buffelshoek farms north of the
town of Lydenburg at a cost of 24 million rand. The option has to be exercised by
November 1998. Kroondal Platinum Mines is scheduled for listing on the Johannesburg
Stock Exchange in June 1998, pending approval.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:27
Caper (@quion) ID#300202: - I was one of them. Lived in Windsor & Whitby. Tired of two hour drives
into work. Go Bus to Go Train to Subway to Street Car & then still had
15 min walk to work. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:26
Isure (@Myrmidon) ID#368244: - But.... if someone does't buy the real stuff, the mines aren't of much
value. Forgive me! I received my mounties and am dumbstruck by their
beauty.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:25
sharefin (It's all relative, it's all perception.) ID#284255:
- - Why gold shares don't necessarily need to fare better in a market crash.
In the last few months the sum of the value of the markets have gone up more than one trillion.
Has there been that much of an increase in the values of the companies?
Especially since the profits from Asia have started to evaporate.
And now they have to spend oodles on Y2K fixes.
It's all relative, it's all perception.
When the market crashes, paper profits evaporate.
If bank X is valued @ $100 billion
And gold mining company Y is valued @ $100 million
They have a relative value of 1000:1
Now bank X gets revalued back to $50 billion,
Due to a correction which revalues the sharemarket.
This revaluation probably brings the banks value,
Back to a more realistic valuation.
So the investor has to set his sights on a more realistic valuation.
He has had to pull his over-optimistic valuations,
Back to a more realistic stance.
Excessive paper profits have disappeared.
All things being relative.
So if the companies which he once thought were worth,
Squillions, are now worth billions.
Then he will take the same stance with all his assets.
He will become more realistic.
( Which he certainly isn't now )
So if bank X drops it's value by half,
Then theoretically gold mining company Y,
Should now be revalued by the same amount.
To keep the relative values the same.
When paper is revalued
All paper should become revalued.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bank X which was valued @ $100 billion
And gold mining company Y which was valued @ $100 million
Having a relative value of 1000:1
After a 50% correction,
Should return to bank X re-valued @ $50 billion
And gold mining company Y re-valued @ $50 million
So that they now have a re-adjusted relative value of 1000:1
This is not to so that their relative value ratio,
Will not change over time.
Which is what we are seeing the beginning of now.
Just trying to point out that a savage correction,
Will have as great an effect on all companies.
It is not the individual companies who will get slammed.
It will be the perception of the investor,
And the re-valuation of all his paper assets.
That gets redefined.
A bear market is another matter entirely.
As a bear market re-adjusted the relative values,
In a gentler manner.
It's all relative, it's all perception.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:21
Caper (Thanks quion) ID#300202: - I am concerned. As I say-it's not what they say-it's what they do not say.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:21
quion97 (TED laid back) ID#23398: - The majority of laid back Canadians are down your way.the ones who wanted to get up and go. are in Ontario ( TORONTO ) . Now paying for their Maritimes brothers.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:19
Caper (@Capers) ID#300202: - Yeah , right Ted. Go Bruno Marcoachio. Guess within a month Ted-I will
have to supply Caper Weather reports. You'll have to sanction it first tho. I must say tho-you're more more accurate than Steve Weagle.
R u goona miss Bill Jessome's Ghost Stories? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:18
Myrmidon (Correction on my 22:12) ID#339212: -
Stocks have done 4X better than gold
Sorry for typo - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:16
EB (Ted) ID#22956: - Don't you have ANOTHER phone line?.....GET OFF THE DAMN PHONE!!!! Or put out some cash for two lines.......cheap Cape Bretoner. That's OK, when you come out to CA you can get two lines. Expense it out. EB's museum fund ( made from gold shorts ) can handle it. Kitco cannot be AWAY from your sagacious gold comments......for a moment!
away...for a clear line
Éßizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:15
quion97 (CAPER) ID#23398: - The last two annual reports which mentioned a definite solution to the year 2000 problem are Noranda and Pan Canadian Petroleum. At the moment cannot re call the others but one was the T.D. bank, I also own shares of CIBC when I receive the annual report will report back to this site.. As a matter of fact I will make it a point to report on all reports concerning the Year 2000 issue.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:13
Caper (@Food For Thought) ID#300202: - Mountie posted in Burnaby, British Columbia who wears a turban. Perhaps
this cud set the tone for the next limited edition. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:12
Myrmidon (LOOK AT THE NUMBERS - THE FACTS SPEAK) ID#339212:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
Item......52wkLow... ..Today...... %UP
Gold........279.........309.......10.6
XAU..........61.2........88.6.....44.7
JGAI........668.3.......952.5.....42.5
Comments:
If you ignore today's advance of the XAU, the SA gold index is the same in percent gains as the NA gold index.
Many have wondered what to own, gold or stocks. Stocks have done 4X better than stocks.
If one takes into account the 5% min. commissions when buying coins and includes it in coin purchases the gains of gold coins are a mere 5.8%
( commissions in stocks are less than 0.5% even through Schwab ) .
NA or SA or Aussie, WHO CARES, WE ALL ARE GETTING RICH.
GO STOCKS !!!!....
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:10
Myrmidon (LOOK AT THE NUMBERS - THE FACTS SPEAK) ID#339212:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
Item......52wkLow... ..Today...... %UP
Gold........279.........309.......10.6
XAU..........61.2........88.6.....44.7
JGAI........668.3.......952.5.....42.5
Comments:
If you ignore today's advance of the XAU, the SA gold index is the same in percent gains as the NA gold index.
Many have wondered what to own, gold or stocks. Stocks have done 4X better than stocks.
If one takes into account the 5% min. commissions when buying coins and includes it in coin purchases the gains of gold coins are a mere 5.8%
( commissions in stocks are less than 0.5% even through Schwab ) .
NA or SA or Aussie, WHO CARES, WE ALL ARE GETTING RICH.
GO STOCKS !!!!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:09
Ted (Caper(22:03)) ID#330175: - laid back is an understatement,eh~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:09
STUDIO.R (@So M. Kosares and I had a lengthy telecon......) ID#288369: - exploring the possibility that the U.S. is contemplating, or currently planning, the partial backing of the dollar with gold and silver. The bonus concept being the silver surety component.
And that Buffett knows this. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:09
robnoel__A (Had a few posts today,the headline in the London Telegraph to-nite says,Socialists in France voted ) ID#411112: - in favour of a bill to transfer sovereignty of Franch over the monetary policy from the French CB to the European Central Bank.........how long will the dollar remain the reserve currency....months max...buy gold and lots of it
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:06
Ted (Panda...thankx for Zulu time) ID#330175: - ummmmmmmmmmmm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:04
EB (Mounties are good food.....Eh?) ID#22956:
- - StudioRubio - I neglected to mention today that I will be building a wing for my Mountie also. It is not much, I know, but it is the principle of owning a coin purchased to keep such a great site open and 'free'. Perhaps if I fall in love I will have to have more. As is usually the case.
BillD - when did you order the coins? How quick was it? Many customers of the museum have been asking how long it will be before they can view the magnificent and 'rare' coin.
Auric - I neglected to notice that Friday was closed for many markets. Would you like a continuation?.......ya' know......till Monday or something ;-^ ) ....... ( doh! ) .
Bart - did ya send it yet? I know......patience........go plat.
away
Éß©
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:03
Caper (@quion) ID#300202: - Branch managers in Nova Scotia are not familiar with the term-Y2K.
Called local media-newpapers/radio in an effort to supply layman's terms
& they are currently researching for potential stories. Damn Yanks are
teaching me to be pro-active. Frightening. I'm sure that Y2K has been
carried in our national newspapers-Globe & Mail-but to the average person
it means beans. Canadians are simply laid back. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:01
panda (TED) ID#30116: - 0400 hours Zulu is Midnight Eastern Day Light Savings time...
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 22:01
Isure (Comex Gold ) ID#368244: -
What happened to all that Comex Gold ? Someone must have bought it!
Wonder if they can get more? GEE--- I hope so !!!! I don't have mine yet.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:57
panda (@) ID#30116: - Looking good... Doesn't mean that a pull back won't happen, but, the tides are changing.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:56
chas (Farfel the fearless) ID#342282: - Thanx for your post. I think you've got it. Anything of this magnitude should have been resolved well before now, whether announced or not. It appears to me that the jockeying for position indicates a much weaker situation than is generally acknowledged. Cheers
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:55
Ted (Time ?................................................................................Hi Caper) ID#330175: - What time ( EST ) time is 0400 GMT?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:51
Caper (@quion) ID#300202:
Copyright © 1998 Caper/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - re: y2k-I was only made aware of potentialities regards to captionally noted due to extensive reading whilst on this forum. Only recently
I made contact with national banks where I have investments locked in
until-2000. Verbally at my local branches i.e. CIBC-advise givenNot a problem From Royal Bank, I rec'd a carefully crafted brochure that
on most pages-it simply advised what the y2k problem is. After sifting
thru the b.s.-bottom line-we have been working on this problem since
1996 with our objective to be y2k compliant. Do I need to say more?
It is now my intention to get f'ing guantees. To date these have been late in arriving. I shall persist!!!!!! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:51
STUDIO.R (@Some point, the others will lay siege to the dollar....) ID#288369: - Could the U.S. Treasury compromise its fall by purchasing vast quantities of the yen, franc ( s ) , pound, mark, yuan, etc. now while the dollar translates nicely into those currencies? Take possession of their paper...and of course, buy gold and the new gold-backed euro. Yesno?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:50
Prometheus (@Farfel) ID#210235: - My brother Farfelonious, Just tuned into your last post a moi. Thanks for the chuckle. Abby Joseph Cohen groupie, yep.
On the serious side, there must be dozens of folks I know ( and you, too ) who would be happy to set some of their stock winnings aside in metals, with the right rationale for doing so. I have referred a couple of friends to this site just on time for Ziva to announce herself the Queen of Kitco and gobble up the bandwidth! Such luck.
Got to go. BBML
YT. Promey - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:45
Silverbaron (JTF) ID#288295: -
One more thing to consider about the gold owed to the BIS....some of the CB's owning shares must have dumped their gold in the latest frenzy - they sure can't come up with 9.1 million ounces at COMEX - A.Goose says they are about 8.95 million short there.
G'nite all. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:31
tolerant1 (SilverBaron - so far a whole lot of hoopla) ID#31868: - but the deal is not done yet. Time will tell. It could take a year a more to sort out all the details and such. I am sure AG had to know so there is one obstacle which is maybe out of the way. I think there is going to be a bunch of political mumbo jumbo.
Like I said, time will tell. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:30
Suspicious (Dear Gold shorts, ) ID#285121: - Gold and Gold shares are gaining attention. Does this make you nervous?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:27
Silverbaron (JTF) ID#288295: -
I think the difference is one of perception. If the BIS is owed the gold for shares, it seems to me this is a more passive act than going to the market and loaning out gold which they already have.....Perhaps this is just another distinction without a difference.... - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:27
farfel (@EJ...thanks for COMP USA info...) ID#340302: - ...my impresssion is that COMP USA is a leading indicator of future weakness amongst the various computer manufacturers. Their dismal results ( and projections of more of the same ) seem ominous.
However, I am not professing to be a computer wizard either.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:23
sharefin (Lirih bug of the year) ID#284255: - Golden Cheesehead
I have in my posession one mint copy of Lihir's prospectus.
It is a large booklet about 2cm's thick full of interesting information.
If you would like the book
Please send an email to sharefin@cairns.net.au
And I will post it on to you.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:22
farfel (@SILVERBARON...I have heard nothing...) ID#340302: - ...and I consider that good news. Usually with this particular fellow, if I have erred in my judgement, then I am quickly re-educated. So far...no word.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:19
JTF (Owed gold vs loaned gold -- ) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - SilverBaron: I think I understand your point -- that somehow getting shares in the BIS means that you owe ( underline owe ) gold to the BIS. My point is still valid, as I thought any owed gold, as represented by shares in the BIS, would be something held over the member CB's from day one -- day one being the day they first got shares in the BIS, but did'nt send the gold. If I understand you correctly, the BIS has the member CB's coming and going.
When you think about it, what is the difference between owing gold for twenty years or so -- as long as you have had shares in the BIS, or having it loaned to you? As long as the gold is not yours, but someone elses, the consequence is the same.
I think the 8000 tonnes of gold loaned by the CB's is a separate matter, unless it prevents certain CB's from sending gold to the BIS when their chips are called.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:18
ForkLift__A (stagflation) ID#331205: - Remember the WIN ( whip inflation now ) buttons during the Ford administration? Just after that period the term stagflation came around and that was a great time to buy gold.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:17
quion97 (Balance, a sober approach to investing) ID#23398:
Copyright © 1998 quion97/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I am ready to move back to the cold Canadian weather. After spending the winter in Florida.
The discovery of the Kitco site was marvelous. I have learned more about gold from various knowledgeable posters. I will not mention names do not want to offend anyone.
I retired 14 months ago at age 56. Due mostly to good investments and a great Toronto real estate market in the late *80 *s. My investments in general are long term. Bonds mostly within a 4 year maturity. Stocks amix of blue chips paying dividends.I choose a mix in the following segments, Utility sector Telephone companies, Pipeline operators, electric companies, consumer goods & services manufacturing & industry and finaly resources and commodities..
Year over year return 18%, with a stop loss on all to protect again the big drop.
Finaly I have a sizeable portfolio of gold convertibles, big drop in 1997 25%. The upside is that even the dogs pay dividends. I will as the market goes up shed some of the canines.
My point is that thanks to a balance portfolio, I am not getting hurt even if a segment of the portfolio, take a beating.As in life we need balance. I refuse to put all my eggs in one basket. Extreme always cost, although many of the thesis exposed by many of you could occur. The world does not change that rapidly. Humans by nature hate changes.The currency issue needs to be addressed, I beleive it will the first to make the change will be the Europeans, they are very conservatives and do not in general rock the boat.
The Asians and Arabs are different do we really understand them and their way of thinking, I do not think so.I doubt if either will succeed in implementing a new currency.Their hate for each other will always be in the way.
The 2000 problem will also be solve by most good organization. I receive many annual reports of blue chip companies, all mention without exception that they will be year 2000 compliant. The ones that are not who cares.
Many thanks to all for the excellent post. Remember balance balance.
Go gold. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:15
EJ (@F*: COMP USA) ID#45173: - I'm no expert on COMP USA, but it's my impression that you're seeing a company paying for the sins of mismanagement: over expanded retail network, excess inventories, poor cash management, stuff like that.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:13
Silverbaron (farfel) ID#288295: -
Are your pals moving on the COMEX gold elligible stocks? ( see Cressy 19:23 ) Hope so - we need some fireworks ( ;^ ) ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:13
Auric (crazytimes) ID#255151: -
Thanks. In addition to being educational, Kitco is often just rousing good fun! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:13
farfel (@JTF...how much baby boomer mania is left in the markets?) ID#340302: - Probably a fair amount...however, manias are ultimately limited by aggregate personal resources plus the amount of aggregate credit supplied by financial entities. Credit supply is ultimately diminished via interest rate hikes.
The next interest rate hike could just do the trick...since it has been a relative eternity since we have seen one.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:08
farfel (@EJ...you should read up on STAGFLATION...) ID#340302: - ...diminishing growth with rising interest rates along with sectoral inflations.
Most likely, that is the economic condition America is about to face.
Our last significant stagflation occurred in the Early Eighties...a time in which GOLD soared toward the heavens.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:02
EJ (@Donald re Wed Apr 08 1998 12:38 note to me) ID#45173: - I'm not sure I understand how you can have deflation in some areas, such as cars that are bought with debt, but not in food, a necessity. Perhaps one deflates more than the other in relative terms? Deflation happens when no one has any money to buy anything. We will continue to buy what we need, thus holding up the price of necessities. Is that it? Thx.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:02
JTF (The Baby Boomers and the US markets) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Voyeur Professor, Farfel, LGB: Voyeur professor has put his finger on the reason for the current market mania -- loss of perspective by the baby boomer investor. What I find hard to analyze is just how much mania there is left in the US markets. There may be alot more left than we realize. The Oldman has said this too, and he is much more knowledgable than I.
I think part of the problem is that a gold bug, almost by definition, sees even the smallest amount of market irrational/unrealistic, etc. behavior, when in reality the matrix/paradigm ( or similar term ) can handle alot more mania before it collapses. But if the destabilizing process progresses, the ultimate outcome is obvious. We can draw one analogy from chaos theory ( attractors ) . And that is:
Market stability comes from:
1 ) -- stock equity values comparable to true business value ( ie, P/E ratio, or book value )
2 ) -- low equity margin levels to protect the investor.
3 ) -- low investor/business debt levels ( loans, etc ) .
4 ) -- Rising or at least strong corporate earnings.
5 ) -- Falling private/corporate Taxation and regulation
Our equity markets are stable right now, but that little dynamical gravity well ( margin of safety ) is very narrow and getting narrower. We may not have our market correction this year, but I do not see anything on the horizon that will prevent the steady erosion of the island of market stability.
Either way, we are now no longer the only investor types that are getting nervous, as others are quietly heading for the exits, and buying precious metals. We will do very well in precious metals if the equity bull market turns into a grinding bear, but every day that the market mania continues increases the probability of a catastrophic collapse, when the correction finally comes.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:00
2BR02B? (@VoyeurProfessor) ID#266105: -
Ain't too bad yous'elf. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 21:00
BillD (Mounties ... Mounties ... Mounties... Get your Mounties here ...) ID#261269: - Mine arrived today...nice coin...thanks Kitco ...only 30,000 minted ... guaranteed $US310 ... how can you lose? Keep Kitco alive ... get your Mounties here...~~~~go Gold and Drooy...
bd - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:59
Silverbaron (tolerant1) ID#288295: - I never bothered to search out the terms of the deal - where was Travelers gonna get THAT much money At least if the had bought all the gold mines, I could be sure of having my insurance claims paid... ( ;^ ) ) ...and furthermore, WHO in their right mind would buy Citicorp, anyway? Those guys have more debt exposure to Asia than any other US bank, I think...
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:51
farfel (@CHAS...the GREAT news about the EURO...) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - ...under the NEW GOLD PARADIGM...
...if the EURO fails, then this is GREAT news for gold as it means that the many disparate European nations will continue to require solid national gold reserves in order to validate their respective currencies. Moreover, the failure of the EURO would probably provoke pandemic indigenous financial market crises throughout Europe since the respective national markets have already discounted the benefits of the EURO. In such financial turmoil, gold is certain to benefit in tradition-bound Europe. The most inviolable tradition: flight to gold during economic uncertainty.
...if the EURO succeeds, then this is EVEN GREATER NEWS for gold since it will augur the first stage of a global currency war whose net effect will be the sale of a huge slice of European U.S. dollar reserves. The diminution of value in the U.S. dollar and the domestic crisis this will provoke in U.S. financial markets augurs well for many double digit increases in the price of gold.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:51
crazytimes (@ Auric) ID#342376: - Very funny, your last post. The posts the last few days have shined as much as our new gold with its tarnish being polished away. Thanks everyone.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:49
Voyeur Professor (farfel & LGB) ID#231101: -
farfel,
Thanks for your comment. Still, I really am often in over my head when I consider the perceptive technical wisdom of many Kitco posters. Your rebuttal to LGB reminds me of the format of Medieval scholastic rhetoric like that of Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica.
LGB,
You have a feisty and persistant analytic mind that reminds me of some of my best students. Keep faith with your dialectic. Once you abandoned your blitzkrieg assaults, you gained the cunning of a guerrilla sniper. Thanks. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:48
tolerant1 (SilverBaron - A. Goose - this helps put things in perspective from Kaplan's site-) ID#31868: - PUTTING IT IN PERSPECTIVE, OR, HOW STOCKS ARE ENORMOUSLY OVERVALUED AND PRECIOUS METALS EQUALLY UNDERVALUED-For half the price that they paid for Citicorp, Travelers Group could have purchased all of the world's precious metals mines. All of them at half the price! ( In practice, of course, any such massive takeover would require a significant premium, but it would still have cost considerably less than Citicorp. ) Naturally, analysts almost universally praised the Citicorp acquisition as a tremendous bargain. Go figure.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:47
EJ (ALBERICH__A: re Wed Apr 08 1998 11:49, US$ - Gold - Inflation - Deflation) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Thanks for your note. The past does repeat itself, sort of. But never quite the same way. It's not 1928. It would take a week to just list the differences between now and then that bear on the possible scenarios for this debt-cycle peak/equity market inflation correction, never mind explain each of them and their interaction with each other. Predicting a mess is fair. I'll go along with that. Predicting gold as a safe place to hold value while the mess sorts itself out is fair, too.
When you and your wife get to Toscana, I hope your wife gets along with your new girlfriend Rosalina and that she's as pretty as her name.
Regards,
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:41
chas (A.Goose) ID#342282: - I finally got to email, thanx. if you will email me your phone, I'll call you. My outgoing email is still out. Hope Salt Standard is going ok.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:41
Silverbaron (JTF) ID#288295:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I don't have a clue if the BIS has loaned THEIR gold....but someone ( BIS, CB's, etc. ) certainly has, and according to Veneroso, in a very big way. This gold cannot ( apparently ) be repaid by the borrowers- it is too much and it is gone.....The BIS matter I mentioned is not LOANED gold.... It is OWED gold from the shareholders of the BIS, to the BIS, in payment for their shares. Only 25% of the payment ( in gold ) for the BIS shares has to date been paid in, and the rest is callable on 3 months notice. If I cooked the numbers correctly, the amount owed is about 970 million gold francs, or about 9.1 million ounces of gold still due.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:36
zeke (@The Preacher) ID#307271: - Thanks for the synopses. We needed that. Of course, I own large portions of the hopefuls you mentioned, including BMG and ECO. Anything about Hecla?
I sure do miss the most sane man on CNBC...you know the little irish technical analyst who, I guess, just knew too much. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:33
chas (Lock & Load) ID#342282: - Ready on the right, ready on the left--fire at will. One hell of a post. I wouldn't be a damn bit surprised if negotiations are underway to subvert the Euro deal. One more step on top of the IMF. Keep your eues open
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:32
Voyeur Professor (LGB and my potential non sequiturs) ID#231101:
Copyright © 1998 Voyeur Professor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
LGB,
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think I may have underestimated a sizable and growing pool of informed investors who have helped this market. But my view of the novice investor assumes that any continuation of the raging bull requires a reckless investor who believes de facto that this market is unshakable, thus the propitiation to the gods of buy and hold. But Warren Buffet and hundreds of portfolio manages have already learned that this market requires enormous amounts of new cash to feed the parabolic rise, and that cash is being thrown at galloping PE ratios and declining profits. They will be the ones who finally make the decision to stop chasing diminishing returns. When that happens, fund yields will either collapse OR OTHER INVESTMENTS LIKE GOLD AND CYCLICALS will take on a greater role in fund portfolios. Your second point should caution any excessive optimism—I don’t believe gold is going to $30,000 an ounce, only that it will soon be restored to its legitimate market price and that price will necessitate a formidable bull in gold. Also, I believe you are overlooking the considerable role of foreign investment that has underwritten U.S. debt and masked the real inflation within our economy. Let the 65% foreign holdings of U.S. treasuries fall even by 15% and we will soon experience dramatic inflationary pressures in the form of higher bond yields and taxation. Even a moderate equity market, the very market you say many sober investors expect will eventually return, will threaten a balanced budget, social security reform and tax revenues.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:31
farfel (@LGB, oh, my opportunistic friend...it's time to throw in the towel) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:58
LGB ( @ Voyeur Prof. ) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good points, well laid out thesis. Have you considered however, some of the fundamental changes in the nature of stock market investing psychology this past few years?
F*: Yes, the market investing psychology has turned to a vertical mania.
Most investors don't expect to make 20% every year conservatively and reture in 2 years. There are millions of little guys who pump a percentage of their salary into 401 K plans every week, in a buy and hold strategy, which they intend to continue to age 65.
F*: According to a recent ABC news opinion poll, over half Americans polled expect to make at least 25% return a year on their stocks.
With an increasing number of well employed boomers doing this, we have quite a ppol of billions flowing one way. These investors are quite unlikely to bail in a downturn, as they have been trained to consider this simply a good opportunity to accumalte more long term shares for the money.
F*: With the average cash margin at most major mutual funds hovering around 2-3%, then one can extrapolate that the average cash margin of most American small investors is around 2-3%...that does not represent much potential stock purchasing power, does it?
Anecdotally, most of the salaried career professionals I talk to, do not expect a continuation of the Equity profits they've seen in the last 4 years, and in fact many expect a large correction. However, virtually none of them have considered trying to time the market. ( With the excpetion of moi...and it may yet to prove stupidity in comparison to their simple strategy ) .
F*: repeat, an ABC opinion poll recently showed that well over 50% of American equities investors expect 25% returns per year.
Remember that there is a lot of push on Capitol hill, to allow Social Security contributors to make a partial break from the program and establsh their own Equity investment funds. If this occurs, it'll add a lot of fuel to the 401K Boomer fire we already see.
F*: social security is one area in which there is a definitive bi-partisan split. The chances that social security will be invested in the bull market is slightly less than zero. In a de facto sense, retirees and their powerful D.C. lobbies control the most significant decisions pertaining to social security. They are ultra-conservative and will never allow it.
Also, I can't fully buy into your foreign flight points. Like you, I expect some Asian recovery, renewed strength in the EU, falling corporate profits domestically, etc....to take some of the shine off US Equities.
F*: with the impending currency wars, there will be a broad and large sell-off of global American dollar reserves.
However, this doesn't change the basic fundamentals of our current economic conditions. Relatively low inflation, economic stability, dollar strength, highest worker productivity in the world, most diversified
economy in the world, strongest hightech. advances in the world, etc etc.
Of course as Asia firms, and their currencies get stronger, our balance of trade will improve.
F*: when the stock market is functioning properly, it acts as a FUTURE indicator only. The fundamentals today are completely irrelevant to what is looming around the corner. Just as the stock market in the early Nineties accurately forecast a recovery that was nowhere in evidence, so today's stock market is about to forecast ( via a stock market debacle ) the imminent termination of American financial hegemony in the world.
Also, don't underestimate today's investor when it comes to knowledge access. The internet, and home/work PC's have changed everything on that score.
F*: Access to mainstream media info does not a wise investor make. Actually, the scariest thing about the internet pertaining to today's investor is the amazing increase in at home investors who have left their jobs to play the great Wall Street video game. Hundreds of thousands of such investors leveraged to the hilt who have never seen a bear market...utilizing an imperfect technology to conduct their trades. What mass panic will come into play if ( and when ) internet lines go down during a severe stock market debacle? They best maintain phone line brokers in such an eventuality.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:31
A.Goose () ID#256250: - Thanks silverbaron. It is about time. It is a slamdunk for anyone or any group with the money to dare to go for it. It will such delicious fun to watch it happen. If it starts tomorrow GREAT, but it is just a matter of time before we see it occur.
Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:23
Cressy ( tomorrow ) ID#344206:
Can you give us any details? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:28
Auric (Good Friday) ID#255151: -
Will Gold trade this Friday? On the off chance that Gold doesn't close above $310, I have prepared the following statement for release to the public on Friday afternoon-- Now I want you to listen to me. I'll say this again. I did not have betting relations with that poster, EB. Not once. Never. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:26
JTF (BIS gold -- where is it? Is this the 'gold game') ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Silverbaron, SDRer: Here is an interesting question for you both, relating to SilverBaron's post about ( I think ) much of the BIS gold being on 'loan' to CB's.
My question relates to something ANOTHER said once about the BIS ( and the Rothschilds ) . He said that the 'name of the game' was to play your cards on the international scene until you own all the gold. Then the ( gold ) game is over. The new game is to loan out the gold to indebted central banks of the world -- I guess -- to enhance world business. Now however, since you can call the gold back at any time, you have control over the world's purse strings. Imagine the power of the group that can do this! This rings true to me -- it makes alot of sense. Fortunately, it looks on the surface at least, that the BIS owns/controls only some of the world's gold. Also, as numerous Kitcoites as posted, the SEAsia, India, Arab situations prevent any one group from owning all the gold in the near future. That must be a real thorn in the side of that European ( ? ) group that wishes to control the world's gold reserves. Recent news makes you think that this group ( whatever it is ) has alot to say in the launching of the EURO. However, it remains to be seen if this group really has enough power to fully resurrect a BIS-like Gold Frank equivalent in the EURO. I doubt it.
Now, here is the corollary to the 'gold game'. If most of the BIS gold is on loan -- which CB's actually owe their gold to the BIS -- and which don't? I think it would be worth our while to know which countries are up to their eyeballs in committments to the BIS. I would guess Argentina, Brazil, South Korea would be on the top of the list. Mexico
I doubt Germany or France are indebted to the BIS.
Comments?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:16
Silverbaron (A.Goose) ID#288295: -
Don't miss Cressy's post at 19:23. This may be what you've been awaiting. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:13
A.Goose () ID#256250: - Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Apr 08, 1998 @ 8:07 pm ET
Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.
GC M8 June Gold 3112 +1 +0.0 3120 3111 33.6K
SI K8 May Silver 6400 +7 +0.1 6420 6390 10.5K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 7800 -25 -0.3 7820 7800 5.56K
PL N8 July Platinum 4153 +28 +0.7 4160 4120 876
PA M8 June Palladium 26705 +785 +3.0 26725 26210 437 - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:12
isure2__A (common sense) ID#368244: -
Common sense, is most uncommon. WE think to learn, but most never learn to think. GO GOLD!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:10
LGB (SHEEP and MANIAS.... today's psychology) ID#269409: - On the OTHER hand..... Moron's have flocked to California Lotto machines in record droves today, driving the jackpot from 40 million to over 100 million in mere days, in fact 5 million an hour currently!!! We've had bigger jackpots here, but never this kind of exponentially rising increase in last day sales.
Well after all, the odds are ONLY 18 million to one..... so you folks with lot's of dough..buy all 18 million number combinations and make yer 100 million fortune! ( Oops, you mean we ended up with 20 different winners? Uh oh! )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:09
farfel (@VOYEUR PROF...you continue to be one of my favorite posters...) ID#340302: - ...such great insight!
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:08
SDRer__A (US Supreme Court--Justice Stevens...on gold...) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - 255 TRANS WORLD AIRLINES, INC. v. FRANKLIN MINT CORP., 466 U.S. 243 ( 1984 ) 466 U.S. 243 TRANS WORLD AIRLINES, INC. v. FRANKLIN MINT CORP. ET AL
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT
No. 82-1186. Argued November 30,
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=466&invol=243>http://caselaw.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=466&invol=243
[Footnote 2] These units, it so happened, corresponded to the French franc as defined by a 1928 French statute. It was thus convenient to call them francs, and the Convention did so. That French statute, however, could have been repealed the day after the delegates adjourned their meeting, and it would not have affected the liability limitation. For the delegates had selected as the standard of value a commodity with a value independent of any one nation's control;
indeed, a commodity perceived to have intrinsic value - a commodity individuals had valued before there were nations, and would value whether or not national governments made it an official medium of exchange.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=466&invol=243
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:03
JTF (Technical Analysis) ID#57232: - Preacher: I enjoy your technical comments -- which appear to show considerable insight -- please keep them coming. I too sense a change in the winds, as the gold stocks weakened yesterday and this morning, and we had a nice recovery today. This behavior is more like a bull market, not the bear market we are so used to. It will be interesting to so how high our fledgling bull market can go before the shorts pile in and push it higher. I know we will have a ( minor ) correction in gold fairly soon, and I thought it was beginning yesterday. Not so --yet.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 20:01
Preacher (Gold Stock Comments) ID#225273:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - To all:
Let's look at the action in some specific gold stocks:
ASA formed an outside day on its daily chart with today's low lower than yesterday's and today's high higher than yesterday's with a very positive close. This is usually a turnaround day and coming in the middle of the week as it did, the signal is even stronger. ASA is going higher.
Bema Gold: for the fouth time this year BGO hit a high of $.2.75. For the third time this year it closed at $2.69. The door is now open for a run to $3.44. Watch it run.
Battle Mountain ( BMG ) filled a downside gap from last autumn late last week and early this week. The gap ran from $7.00 down to $6.81. Although filled, the gap proved to be some resistance and the price of BMG fell back. It looks ready to made another try at going over it and onto new highs for the year.
Canyon Resources ( CAU ) has basically doubled in price since March 18, not bad. It hit a new high for the year on Monday. It's weakness is to be expected here. But it's not finished yet. It may not move exactly with the XAU stocks, but it should make a run to new highs soon.
CDE filled a downside gap from last autmn on Friday. The resistance has pushed its price down but the pullback has been mild. I look for CDE to move higher and challenge the Oct '97 high of $16.44 soon.
The Central Fund of Canada ( CEF ) I must admit the daily chart is troubling. It left a downside gap on its chart yesterday and fell even further today. I don't know how good of an indicator it is for the rest of the market, but I'll be interested in seeing how this is resolved.
ECO looks ready to go. It closed on its high for the year today and has a clean shot to its next resistance level around $3.25.
HM formed an outside day on daily chart with a close at $12.00. It has clear sailing to $12.75, although I doubt it will get there in a straight line.
PDG formed a key reversal today with a close at $14.31. It's next resistance level is $16.63. All inteference has been cleared.
There are some good looking charts in goldland tonight. Hopefully tomorrow will bring glad tidings of great joy.
The Preacher - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:58
LGB (@ Voyeur Prof.) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Good points, well laid out thesis. Have you considered however, some of the fundamental changes in the nature of stock market investing psychology this past few years?
Most investors don't expect to make 20% every year conservatively and reture in 2 years. There are millions of little guys who pump a percentage of their salary into 401 K plans every week, in a buy and hold strategy, which they intend to continue to age 65.
With an increasing number of well employed boomers doing this, we have quite a ppol of billions flowing one way. These investors are quite unlikely to bail in a downturn, as they have been trained to consider this simply a good opportunity to accumalte more long term shares for the money.
Anecdotally, most of the salaried career professionals I talk to, do not expect a continuation of the Equity profits they've seen in the last 4 years, and in fact many expect a large correction. However, virtually none of them have considered trying to time the market. ( With the excpetion of moi...and it may yet to prove stupidity in comparison to their simple strategy ) .
Remember that there is a lot of push on Capitol hill, to allow Social Security contributors to make a partial break from the program and establsh their own Equity investment funds. If this occurs, it'll add a lot of fuel to the 401K Boomer fire we already see.
Also, I can't fully buy into your foreign flight points. Like you, I expect some Asian recovery, renewed strength in the EU, falling corporate profits domestically, etc....to take some of the shine off US Equities.
However, this doesn't change the basic fundamentals of our current economic conditions. Relatively low inflation, economic stability, dollar strength, highest worker productivity in the world, most diversified economy in the world, strongest hightech. advances in the world, etc etc.
Of course as Asia firms, and their currencies get stronger, our balance of trade will improve.
Also, don't underestimate today's investor when it comes to knowledge access. The internet, and home/work PC's have changed everything on that score. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:50
Ted (KMTMAN.......and 'Good Friday') ID#330175: - good point
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:43
Silverbaron (SDRer) ID#288295: - Nope - The new Islamic Mint gold Dinar is a lightweight in comparison; 4.25 grams ( gross ) at 22 kt, which is about 3.9 grams of fine gold....as compared to the 20 Franc coins at 5.8 grams.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:33
Preacher (Market Comments) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - To all:
The upward bounce by the XAU away from its unfilled gap today was a thing of beauty. The gap from last Friday began at 84.76. The XAU could only make it as low as 84.79 before rebounding 3.81 points and finishing on the high of the day at 88.60.
This big bounce was also a move off a retest of the 200-day MA, which shows the MA is now serving as support where for two years it has served as resistance. It stands at 85.22. The stochastics on the weekly chart are getting overbought, but it looks to me like the XAU is moving higher for the rest of the week.
The next unfilled downside gap on the XAU daily chart begins at 102.42 and runs to 105.38. The major downtrend line from June '96 stands now at 96.08. So to fill this next gap, the XAU needs some big power behind it. Are we to see an explosion? We'll see.
Gold was not strong like the XAU, but it did come well off its lows. As I said yesterday, when gold and the XAU diverge, gold is usually lying and the XAU is telling the truth. We got the downside action in both this morning as the XAU told us yesterday we would. But this afternoon's close says that both are moving higher.
Gold has now closed above its 200-day MA for three days in a row. Unprecedented the past two years. I'm still looking for a move to $320 or above on this move, at which point the 200-day MA will become support for gold as it now appears for the XAU. These are important moves that we've been seeing the past few weeks.
The downtrend line from the Nov '96 crumble intersects the chart at $313.00. Gold should now make a run at that line. The stochastics on the weekly chart are getting toppy, but they are not critical and could still allow a move higher.
Silver refuses to buckle beneath its 100-day MA at $6.20. I see two possibilities for silver. It could work its way higher and fail at or below the Feb high, or it could explode upward and take out that high. I'm leaning toward the first of these right now. But either way, the short term looks pretty positive.
More later. Happy trading.
The Preacher - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:31
Silverbaron (Cressy) ID#288295: - Has someone acted on the thesis of A.Goose, arden, and others that the COMEX gold emperor is sans toga? ... Give us some specifics on the large purchases if you can...Thanks
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:31
SDRer__A (Global Business, Gold, and how they keep score...) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - FCC
FEDERAL COMMUINICATIONS COMMISSION
Last updated September 24, 1997 aky
INTERNATIONAL BUREAU
TELECOMMUNICATIONS DIVISION, POLICY & FACILITIES BRANCH
ACCOUNTING RATES OF THE UNITED STATES, THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND NEW ZEALAND
“The accounting rates are presented in the monetary units negotiated by the carriers. Most rates are denominated in either the U.S. dollar or the Special Drawing Right ( SDR ) , which is a market basket of five currencies ( the dollar, the pound, the mark,the yen, and the French franc ) . The gold franc is used in a very few cases.”
“... are based on the SDR value of accounting rates, using an exchange rate of 1SDR=$1.4588 where conversions are necessary. A gold franc has a fixed factor for converting it to SDR ( 1SDR=3.061 GF ) .”
http://www.fcc.gov/ib/td/pf/ukrates.html
Gold is a STANDARD OF MEASUREMENT....
SilverBaron@French.Belgian.gold.coins You know your coins! Doesn't the
dinar weigh-in around there too? Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It is appreciated. {:- ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:30
KMTMAN@VANCOUVER (STRENGTH IN GOLD PRICES) ID#270315: - Cressy; I agree with most of what you write. However I did not think the Gold or any other markets were opened on Good Friday, are they?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:23
Cressy (tomorrow) ID#344206:
Copyright © 1998 Cressy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Look for a strong day on gold, stronger yet on Friday. The street has smelled out a precariously dangerous position and will take advantage of the situation. Will hope to cause fear over the weekend and maybe run with it the rest of the week. Will be a fine time to gauge the strength of the powers that have caused and maintained these low price levels, seeming to believe they can control an illusion inside a reality. Not as much physical metal as one would guess. Beginning to cause a problem that cannot be so easily concealed. Larger volume purchases being made. Some astonishingly large. Jackals do not always stay in packs. And if they begin to starve, and become somewhat ravenous, they will even eat their Mother.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:23
LGB (@ Charles Keeling...) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Is your real name Steve Puetz? Hmmmm, no.... your Bearish predictions are too tame. However, at least you have made a clear and comprehensible call, with numbers and a timetable, ( and some rationale ) ..For this you are to be commended.
I dearly do love oposts that don't consist of ethereal gobbledegook nonsense that us small minded small brained creautures are just too unsophisticated to decipher. We'll see what happens re your call. If we see mid to low 7000's in the DOW, I'll be cautiously averaging back in to Equities, all assuming that no major new economic events occur to change the fundamentals. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:15
Voyeur Professor (My finantial credo) ID#231101:
Copyright © 1998 Voyeur Professor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
I am probably out of my depth with regard to the dynamics of the gold market Still, as an academic, I am trained to undertake research and make reasonably analytic observation, so, although I have been content to play observer for the most part, I would like to risk a few, hopefully, verifiable observations.
First, I would venture to say that not only has gold bottomed, it has begun to get the attention of even those who have mocked it as an investment. Two years ago, a friend and member of the New York Stock Exchange, was shepherding my wife and I around the member’s chambers. The Dow, of course, was making its fabled move from about 5600, and I suggested to my guide that the 16 year bear market in gold seemed to be ending because gold at that time was headed for $415, the top for the last gold bull. Unimpressed, my friend dismissed the run-up, saying that too many other investments promised greater returns than gold. He added a further repudiation of my interest in gold, arguing that hedging with gold was being replaced with paper derivatives. He was also convinced that a rising bull would eventually kill an extended gold run. Time has proved him to be right, at least up to about January of this year. Why, I ask myself, will things be different for gold now. Let me count the ways:
1. Gold has already reached a most extraordinary bottom..
2. The many forces that were depressing gold—the surging Dow, a rising dollar, alternative hedging strategies, Central Bank selling—helped create one of the most propitious climates ever for short sellers who could rely on the sustained paper frenzy and monetary support for lower gold.
3. The entrance into the investing marketplace of essentially novice buyers. Traditional investors had a more knowledgeable and sophisticated awareness of gold hedging. The new investor came into the markets as a mutual fund or 401K investor. Regardless of the populist view that celebrates the savvy of the new investor, the fact remains that they remain ignorant of the significance of short selling, currency and option trading, or gold investing. The parabolic rise in the Dow has been fed by new investors, seeking the simplicity of mutual fund investing, the lure of 25% annual yields which would hasten the day of retirement arithmetically. The enormous liquidity that enabled the stock market to explode has been driven by momentum and liquidity, NOT FUNDAMENTALS! One of the more obvious idiosyncrasies of this market resides in the degree to which momentum and liquidity have increased in the face of diminishing equity dividends, PE ratios, traditional investing prudence, and the like.
4. The emergence and acceleration of global investing has proved a most fortuitous event for the U.S. stock market. In fact, a number of events in the global markets—the rise in unemployment in European countries, the Japanese recession, the Asian currency crisis and bank debt—have served as a catalyst for a surging U.S. market.
5. Finally, a manifest boom psychology has convinced millions the U.S. market ( contrary to the obvious paralysis of markets everywhere else ) represents a New Jerusalem of finance, a vehicle that will insure double-digit yields into eternity ( witness the Wall Street Journal account recently of a couple, aged 30, who plan to retire once their investments reach $300,000, and who estimate they will achieve their goal in two more years. The $300,000 will insure them a minimum retirement of $60,000 per year, based on their conservative expectation of at least 20% yields! ) .
So what has all this to do with my belief that gold has entered the beginning stages of a dramatic turn?
Recent months have shown us something of a reversal of the 5 trends I have cited.
1. At $414, the top for the last gold bull, many analysts had pegged gold as undervalued by about $75, based on the inflation since 1982 Today’s $309 spot gold price is beginning to be recognized as one of the rare bargains in a universe of hyperbolic prices.
2. The many forces depressing gold have moderated or vanished. All one has to do is look at rising open interest and lease rates. Professional investors looking to capitalize on any cyclical run in gold have begun to materialize.
3. The new investor, hypnotized by the stratospheric rise in equities will prove a significant catalyst for gold’s rise. When the bull is exhausted or merely tracking sideways, portfolio manages of over eight thousand mutual funds will be prompted to add gold simply to boost sagging yields. The novice investor will demand high yields no matter what the investment
When undervalued gold is discovered again, the mass market will embrace it.
4. The global market will soon prove a mixed blessing for U. S. financial hegemony. While the U.S. will remain a major player, other challengers—the Euro particularly will end the dollar’s invincibility, along with a strong economic challenge from a recovered Asia. And the ECU’s recognition of gold’s unique place in monetary stability will deal a death blow to the new paradigm mythos that gold is irrelevant
5. Finally, the herd psychology that propelled the equity boom will soon serve gold. The new investor will not leave the market in a prolonged market slowdown. Instead, they will transfer their idolatry to gold, international investing, commodities, and sector investing.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:14
Charles Keeling (@ ALL RE: THE COMING BEAR MARKET IN EQUITIES) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
The SOX Index is down. Earnings reports continue
to come in low.
As things settle down in S E Asia, the flight money
that poured into US equities will go home.
I don't think that we will see a 9000 DOW again for a very
long time. My call is that we are just now seeing the
start of a bear market for equities. IMHO the DOW will
be at or below 6800 by June 15, 1998.
Standard & Poors Outlook
The price/earnings ratio of the Standard & Poor's 500
stock index is at a 20-year high, suggesting to some
analysts that the market is overvalued. The ratio
measures the combined share prices of the 500
companies against their combined earnings per
share..
.
1979 7.49 . COUNTING DOWN TO........
1980 9.48 .
1981 8.99 .
1982 11.31 .
1983 12.31 .
1984 10.24 .
1985 14.51 .
1986 17.54 .
1987 19.24 .
1988 11.94 .
1989 15.73 .
1990 16.98 .
1991 25.60 .
1992 23.40 .
1993 21.55 .
1994 16.11 . 5
1995 18.63 . 4
1996 19.55 . 3
1997 24.73 . 2
1998* 27.80 . 1
BLAST OFF~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
* 1998 figure is based on 12 months ending March 31;
all other figures based on calendar year..
.
SOURCE: Standard & Poor's Outlook. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:13
OLD GOLD () ID#238295: - Gold continues to essentially ignore any bad news and easily beats back the shorts. Classic recipe for a roaring bull market.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:09
tolerant1 (sorry, missed a t !) ID#31868: - http://pw2.netcom.com/~helliott/00.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 19:05
tolerant1 (in case you missed this link, if it is about Y2K - you will find it here.) ID#31868: - http://pw2.netcom.com/~helliot/00.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:43
Lock&Lode (@LGB your 18:16 --- Preach it brother, Preach it !!!) ID#266110:
Copyright © 1998 Lock&Lode/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - The more people find out the truth about the way in which markets are manipulated, the better we all will be. The main reasons why these scoundrels get away with it is because the masses want to believe in their furhers. But more importantly, these same scoundrels are able to use funny money instead of the real stuff. Just think of the differences if they really had to come up with tangible Au. They couldn't have pulled it off.
Right now the markets are moving to ever higher diving boards and there's no water in the pool. Wait until they have to dive, there won't be any gold ( water in the pool ) to save them from smacking the bottom face first.
I can hear those CH-50Es. They're coming in low, out of the rising sun. It's spectacular!! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:42
robnoel__A (LGB,are you referring to secretive societys....let me help...front page Financial Times 4/7/98 ) ID#410198:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Columnist Philip Stephens.. ( not a known wacko ) Central Bankers: money masters.
The secretive society of central bankers has accumulated great power without accountability.Citizens will demand redress.
Central bankers are the masters now.Presidents and prime ministers may play war and peace.they can prance abroad and posture at home.But money is different.Leave the politicians in charge of our money and they will debauch it.They freely admit as much.We are to put our trust instead in greyer men in darker suits
These guardians of price stability have been tip-toeing from the shadows for some time.We know that the masterly economic management of Alan Greenspan,chairman of the FED,who assured BC of a second term.And the German people will surrender the D-Mark to Europes single currency only after Hans Tietmeyer,the Bundesbank pres.gives assent.But by and large,CB remains a socciety as secretive as it is powerfull,a profession that has always prized discretion over it's public profile.THE RELENTLESS ACCRETION OF POWER HAS GONE LARGELY UNNOTICED IN THE WIDER WORLD
LGB call it what you like I rest my case
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:35
Lock&Lode (@Donald --- Thanks for your daily Reuters posts) ID#266110: - You help keep me informed and up to date - such as the Y10 trillion bath that the Japanese banks took last year. Keep up the good work! I wanted you to know firsthands how important these posts are to the entire group. INFORMATION IS THE KEY !!! .... and you help to keep us all informed.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:26
Donald__A (Michael Metz says bear market in gold is over. Likes Newmont Mining.) ID#26793: - http://www.newsday.com:80/nd1/moneycov.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:20
Donald__A (Hashimoto says Asian economies are fundamentally sound. Troubles are over! Whew!) ID#26793: - http://www.rferl.org:80/nca/features/1998/04/F.RU.980406134557.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:16
LGB (@ Farfel, Robnoel.....Black choppers on the radar horizon...) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - The 1997 October buyback? It was open liquidity pumping by FED, which is an open policy in the event of precipitous declines. Nothing secretly nefarious about it, other than the fact we can all argue about the merits of propping up a free market.......
The lies and machinations of Lying bags o' Sh** politicians, have to be questioned, as does the runaway authority of pinheaded beaurocrats who would regulate our every waking thought....however, it's a stretch to get from this understanding, all the way to Illuminati, 5th Column, ANOTHER Oil magnate LBMA connected manipulating, Jewish banker conspirators running the world economy, yes? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:14
robnoel__A (lock&load......no maar goot.....) ID#410198: - .
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:12
Donald__A (Gold market described as overheated. (The Dow is described as cool?) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/markets_pr_2.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:09
LGB (@ Closing News....EU CB's, ML Buffet story..all old... BFD) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Wednesday April 8, 4:15 pm Eastern Time
NY precious metals end mostly up, gold weaker
NEW YORK, April 8 ( Reuters ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures
ended mostly higher Wednesday, except for gold, which fell prey to fund selling
throughout the session, traders said.
Prices remained confined within Tuesday's range, with Australian producers and
funds dampening prices, with the market divided over the next move.
COMEX June gold ended at $311.10 an ounce, down $0.90 from Tuesday's
close, trading from $309.40 to $312.50 an ounce.
In the bullion market, spot gold was $308.70/9.20 an ounce, compared with the
late London fix, which was $308.80 an ounce, and the Wednesday's New York
close at $309.25/75 an ounce.
``I don't think the market knows which direction it wants to go,'' one bank dealer
said. ``We're not seeing many buy stops until the market breaks through $315 an
ounce. The funds probably did all of the buying they want for the time being.''
On the downside, the market needs to break through technical support at the gap
between $301.90 and $304.60 an ounce, traders said.
Speculation over the role of gold in the European Central Bank reserves has
provided the backdrop for the market most of this week, that impact is expected
to fade.
``I don't know that anyone's really concerned about the threat of central bank
sales at this point,'' one trader said. ``The banks have sold everything they want
to sel at this point.''
COMEX May silver settled at $6.393 an ounce, up 1.6 cents from Tuesday's
close, trading between $6.330 and $6.440 an ounce.
In the bullion market, spot silver was quoted $6.45/48 an ounce, compared to the
late London fix at $6.460 an ounce, and Tuesday's New York close at $6.41/44
an ounce.
Silver has been trading in a subdued range following the Financial Times
publications of a two-week-old Merrill Lynch report that speculated that Warren
Buffett sold one-third of his widely publicized long position, which was 129.7
million ounces in February.
NYMEX July platinum was up $2.80 to $415.30 an ounce, while NYMEX June
palladium was up $7.85 to $267.05 an ounce.
Palladium gapped higher on the opening on commercial short-covering
overnight that carried over from Japan. Palladium lease rates blew out overnight
to 50 percent from 35 cent, lending support to an already tight physical market.
The move comes amid delays in the approval of annual Russian export
agreements with Japan. The delays have supported - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:07
Donald__A (Indonesia debt problems worse than South Korea) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/indonesia__20.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:05
Lock&Lode (robnoel -- just bookmarked your 18:00 and will use it as a source) ID#266110: - Danke !!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:02
Donald__A (OECD says Japanese problems are world problems) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/oecd_2.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 18:00
robnoel__A (Lock&load..nice handel...to all my favorite web page visit it a lot its big really big ) ID#410198: - http://www.bigeye.com/bigeye1.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:58
Silverbaron (WhisperingLow) ID#288295: - I'm not sure when they update the forecast - I took a one-day seminar on this system, back around Christmas time - I think I was told the updates probably come around 6:00 pm or so. It's free, so watch it for a while to see if you have confidence in the system. I refuse to buy the US market at these prices, but plan to use this as a trading tool to go long in non-PM funds when things get a little less pricey. I'm told that if you have a Fidelity brokerage account ( not just a fund account ) you can short the Fidelity Funds, as well as going long.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:57
Donald__A (Solution to Japanese financial problems? NWA-non-stop Tokyo to Las Vegas) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980408/nv_mccarre_1.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:53
Lock&Lode (Here's a passing thought on Lawyers.) ID#266110:
Copyright © 1998 Lock&Lode/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - They are the 20th Century version of the Gladiator / Warrior King, but in a more sophisticated and culturally acceptable way. If there is any doubt, then look at how they dominate our culture, our legislative system, our business, and now OUR TVs !! Every night they're on every talking head show and every morning we get a dose on the Good Morn- Americrap shows. There is nowhere to turn without them in your face and making the biggest bucks for it.
How about this: The Proud, the Few, the LAWYERS ...
or
All we need are a few good LAWYERS - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:49
Silverbaron (WhisperingLow) ID#288295: - It worked just now for me - try it again: http://www.duke.edu/~dhp/
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:44
WhisperingLow (Silverbaron~REFERENCED SITE MOVED) ID#235378: - REFERENCE:Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:51
Silverbaron ( Artificial Intelligence Trading Tool for FSAGX, FDPMX )
I tried to check out the site you referred to at 5:40 PM. It apparently has been removed. They reference a move of the site, but the new location contains nothing about metals trading. DAN POLLARD email: dlp@acpub.duke.edu might gain info as to new access source. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:44
Bully Beef (The north is thawed.) ID#259282: - Time to leave the igloo and make money the old fashioned way.Go gold ...Puuuleaasse!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:43
robnoel__A (LGB,some may call it conspiracy,I prefer questioning authorityas soon as they stop lying I will) ID#410198: - stop questioning
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:42
Lock&Lode (@robnoel your 16:55 --- TO ALL: This is great reading if...) ID#266110: - you print out all 11 chapters ( ie rape 1 thru 11 ) THANKS ROBNOEL !!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:36
farfel (@LGB..sometimes a conspiracy really is a conspiracy...) ID#340302: - ...did the great October '97 stock buyback occur as a spontaneous event...or was it orchestrated?
I know that you are fundamentally an intelligent man...do not disappoint me by answering the question in the negative.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:32
LGB (@ RObnoel....Conspiracy's) ID#269409: - Just watched Conspiracy Theory last night for the first time, and couldn't help but be reminded of certain fellow Kitcoites in the earlier scenes!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:30
LGB (@ Y2K Freaks) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Since we still see this topic on a bi hourly basis, and I've refrained from comment for weeks, just wanted to add one more counterpoint tidbit of skepticism to the mix. ( In the context of fully realizing that it will be a big, expensive, difficult, etc. problem to fix, of COURSE! )
Wall Street Journal last week, had an article on large insurance carriers now offering Y2K policies to business, FULLY covering them for lost profits, lost business, excess costs, etc. etc. that would be caused by unforseen Y2K problems ocurring on or after 1/1/00.
Price of coverage? 2% to 5% premium of the underwritten amount! Pretty small potatoes considering how hard the Actuaries looked at risk factors before initiating this coverage.
What does all this indicate/ A big expensive problem, but not one which will presage the end of our economy/financial system as we know it. A blip in the long term sceme of all things economic. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:29
robnoel__A (LGB.....the folks you are looking for are at work it's just us conspiracy buffs here) ID#410198: - .
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:23
farfel (F*'s Evaluation of the GOLD market...) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - ...the most encouraging news today in the gold market concerned volume.
Gold stocks rose today on extremely low volume...despite a drop in the price of gold. Bellwhether BMG managed a 5% gain on a mere 400,000 shares traded ( to put that in perspective, such low volume used to be an average single block trade for BMG back in 1993 during the last gold bull ) . Moreover, increased propagandization about future CB gold sales seems only to whet the appetite for gold by investors now inured to such gold short agit-prop. The realization that virtually all gold CB sales are being picked up by stronger CB's has eliminated the fear factor of newly enlightened gold longs. The Munk cartel's bold announcements concerning the termination of any future significant gold producer forward sales...plus their continued announcements of mine shutdowns...has erased another source of fear in the minds of gold longs. Finally, and most auspiciously, the wave of gold mining company annual meetings is about to begin. It is a virtual certainty that a spate of new consolidation announcements will precede these meetings. In the past, when gold mining companies have been unable to show good profits to their shareholders, they have opted to please them via mergers and takeover announcements. Such mergers and purchases become more imperative and urgent as gold approaches the 350 level, which might prove sooner than later, in order for the acquiring gold companies to find bargain targets.
In the face of improved gold XAU strength, the stock market itself tumbled.
From these paradoxical events, it is evident that professionals are beginning to find gold investment more enticing. At the same time, there is virtually little if any populist interest in gold investment. Again, this is good, auguring huge potential re-directions of asset flows into the gold market when the public finally gets it. Some of gold's greatest advances should occur in advance of the imminent stock market debacle which more and more analysts expect will be a Spring ( early or mid- May ) occurence rather than a Fall event. With increasing professional interest, then gold should eventually mirror Palladium's recent double digit daily advances and we might witness the first tangible evidence of this phenomenon as early as next week.
Most DOW investors continue the practice of buying on the DOW dips...an increasingly dangerous form of obsessive-compulsive behavior on the part of DOW longs...which will give rise to much internal dissonance when a huge DOW drop occurs ( of at least 500 points ) and there is a mere trickle of dip-buying. This imminent event will confirm the DOW bear. Given that major DOW corporations are spending unusually great amounts of available corporate cash for corporate buybacks ( while at the same time forecasting greatly diminished earnings ) ...given that the American government has allotted huge amounts of domestic funds for global economic stabilization...given that foreign investors seem to have maxed out their participation in U.S.A. markets...and given that overleveraged small investors can hardly be expected to rush back into the market with the same powerful effect seen during the Oct. '97 mania...then it will be highly unlikely to expect an IBM or other DOW heavyweight or the government or foreign big money interests or a domestic populist buyback wave to create an analogously powerful buyback this time around.. ALthough the government or IBM or whomever may announce such a buyback, unfortunately, this next time, perception will not suffice. WIth the bubble now so much more enormous, then they must actually go into the market and really buy real stock.
Where is the liquidity in this increasingly illiquid world?
As European CB's hasten the process of dollar reserve sales to replace them with the new EURO's, the dollar can be expected to weaken greatly.
It is the sustained weakness in the dollar that will confirm the end of the DOW/Nasdaq/bonds bull as foreign investors will drop U.S. investments like white goo falling from a flock of birds. Add the enormous psychological negative of the imminent announcements of a new Asian currency standard and the great equities/bonds bear will kick into full gear, thereby providing the ultimate confirmation of the new gold/silver bull.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:20
LGB (@ DA, Realistic, RJ, long lost Karlito ) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Where are you guy's? Kitco's degrading to ad hominum attacks by the PHinLA's of the world, toward any and all persons who would be critical of the irrational deification of Hoaxters and conspiracy theorists.
We need some successful achievers ( as opposed to failed theorists ) . We need some Real world traders and experts. We need some sane, deductive reason based thought processes to counterbalance the Emotion driven cultists. We need some BALANCE on this board!!!
Meanwhile, how bout that end of session activity in silver each day and continued drawdown in COMEX inv. eh? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:20
arden (Comex warehouse stocks) ID#201238: - Comex warehouse gold stocks unchanged today.
Comex warehouse silver stocks fell by 126,008 oz to 86,877,822 oz. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:06
Spud Master (@Trinovant) ID#273112: - YEE HA!
many thanks; your creation will live on thumb-tacked to numerous vault cork boards. You really aught to post it to a Usenet news group - one of those Year2000 types. Gawd ... imagine the consternation as it is miss-read!
Herr Spud - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 17:03
robnoel__A (themissinglink.....just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not watching you) ID#410198: - .
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:55
robnoel__A (Dug up a little history for you guys,read it and weap) ID#410198: - http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/rape2.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:48
themissinglink (Government spies) ID#373403: - Can you just imagine what a government official reading this stuff would think? If gold prices give the truth about inflation then goldbug attitudes and behavior should be studied for a general reading on the economy and the future of democracy.
So much truth in one place on the government sponsored internet. How ironic for them to provide the forum for us to expose their misdeeds! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:48
Pedro (Question?) ID#224151: - Why am I always reminded of the Dow when I watch that CNBC Toyota commercial of
the man on the raft drifting toward the Falls...Tooooooo Faaaaaar! Like very much
today’s action on Gold and the XAU. Muchas Gracias in order for many stimulating
posts of late...particularly Farfel & Cheesenoggin to name just 2. Hey! RJ.....Stay &
Play!. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:41
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Herr Jack-) ID#431263: - Ich verstehe mein Herr! Ich verstehe! Du verstehst! Aber Herr Dizzy versteht NICHT! Macht nichts! Diz ain't the only gold mining investor in die Welt! Wiedersehen, mein Herr! Immer auf zwei Beinen to you and yours!
And keep on postin' till alle verstehen! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:40
tricky (The second day in a row the XAU) ID#304282: - has opened weak and strenghthen throughout the day. Last week in its up move, it opened strong and continued to strenghthen throughout the day. Very bullish technically.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:36
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793: - Gold/Silver Ratio = 48.04
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:35
themissinglink (30% gold backed currency's) ID#373403: - To back our current U.S. money supply ( M3 ) we would have to revalue gold to:
$6,300/oz X 262,000,000oz = $1.65 trillion = 1/3 of $5.5 trillion ( M3 )
Otherwise we would have to come up with 4 billion ounces at $400/oz or:
1.65 billion ounces at $1,000/oz or:
825 million ounces at $2,000/oz or:
412 million ounces at $4,000/oz
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:33
223 (Repost of Classic Kitco 1998 at its best. My nomination for the Kitco Oscar award:) ID#26669: - http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_02/980221.091524.mr._micke.htm
http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_02/980221.092059.mr._micke.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:33
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793: - XAU/Spot Ratio = .287
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:31
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793: - Dow/Gold Ratio = 28.78
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:28
Jack (Herr Goldener KaeseKopf) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
Kann nichts furstain ( sp ) why Harmony with so many ounces of gold, would buy a property of a bankarutto Canadian company.
Better that they used that money to buy VENGF, then they would have had some interest in something real. L-I-H-I-R
About the low volumn of LIHRY, When I liked TVX and it was listed on the NASDAQ, I bought a bundle at less than $2 and did very well.
In those days TVX traded about 3000 share a day.
NOW ITS A BUMMER and trades in the millions
About LIHIR it machts nix -as we say in AMI.
IMHO, THE Lihir ADR'S which earned at the rate of $0.26 per ADR in their very first quarter out of the chute may very well end up on the X-A-U.
When one considers some of the bummers the XAU has Lihir would definately add some class. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:23
Preacher (Frustrated & PCR) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Here's a copy of the meat of the press release
- Joint Venture Agreement
Pacific Amber Resource Ltd. ( Pacific Amber ) and Pandora Industries Inc. ( Pandora ) have jointly announce that Pacific Amber has entered a joint venture agreement ( the Agreement ) with Pandora to further explore and develop Pandora's Paquime property located in north-central Chihuahua, Mexico. The Agreement is subject to regulatory authority.
According to the Agreement, Pacific Amber will earn a 50% interest in the property by the cash payment of US$145,000 and the work expenditures of US$600,000 over the next four years.
The initial program will consist of I.P. and magnetometer surveys, geological mapping and soil and rock geochemical sampling at an estimated cost of US$150,000. This work will further explore a gold, mercury, arsenic and antimony geochemical anomaly approximately 5 kilometres long by 2 kilometres wide ( 3 x 1.25 miles ) . Significantly, immediately north of and trending into the anomalous area, is a large mineralized structure. A trench in this structure, sampled by Pandora, averaged 3.45 gpt Au ( 0.11 oz/t Au ) over 37 metres ( 121 feet ) , with high values cut to 5 gpt Au ( 0.16 oz/t Au ) The presence of very high mercury indicates that gold occurs in the upper part of a gold epithermal system.
TEL: ( 604 ) 688-6681 Hiro Ogata, President
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:21
Lock&Lode (@ Suspicious your 14:53 --- Market Manipulation --- I concur BUT...) ID#266110:
Copyright © 1998 Lock&Lode/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I want to add something more. The limited manipulation that can be brought to bear on a market for supposed good. But that good is in the eye of the beholder. As you correctly stated, interference in the Japanese market in 93-94 shaved off a potentially deeper impact. But if the full impact had been felt at the time, they very likely would have come out by now in better shape.
Now, they are going through another retracement with additional losses such as over Y 10 trillion in losses from banks.
MANIPULATION BY THE IMF -- As I said earlier, the good of manipulation is in the eye of the beholder. Can anyone who really knows what's currently happening in Asia say that it is a good thing to reward destructive behavior on the part of CGs who inflated currency and burnt everyone. IMVHO --- NO! Why do I say this?
In an attempt to protect the poor little investor who got burnt by the slight-of-hand game created by CGs, we are exposing the same little guy to future similar abuses by CGs.
What I am about to say will challenge many and I ask that you bear with me until I lay everything out. -- THE TRUE VILLIANS ARE THE CGs, because they are the ones who INFLATED THE MONEY to begin with. They were the ones who created the original SIN and sucked unsuspecting investors into a trap. Then the trap was sprung on the investors by speculators in currency trading who skunked the whole mess out. ( Keep in mind that the currency traders did us all a service by short-circuiting the SINS OF THE CGs. If the GGs had been allowed to run things even further, then more $ would have been vaporized and the businesmen of Asia would be even deeper in debt. )
Rather than prop up these bankrupt CG fiat currencies, the IMF should have let the CGs suffer their own consequences. Of course, the ripple effect would be significant loss the little investors who are the ones to experience the loss directly. On the surface, they are the only losers and the CGs get away scott-free. And while it is true in one sense, in another sense it's not.
Bear this mind. --- CGs would not escape scott-free. Why? Because when investors were burnt, they wouldn't venture back into the markets that were fragged by the CGs unless there was a commensurate risk/reward ratio OR if the CGs truly paid for their sins and had a direct gold backed currency. In this way, the CGs would be held fully accountable. But with the scenario of the IMF intervention, we are seeing the same exact situation being set up again for a repeat performance. And don't it can't or won't happen again. Because it ultimately will with a vengence.
SO -- With the IMF intervention now, money is being burnt up in the vortex of totally destructive operations of the past. All of the wrong signals were sent forward into the market and the market responded with it's own form of sickness. The question is how much muney will it take to paper over these sins? From the beginning estimates of IMF $Billions, we've seen this amount expand and it's not over yet. Cyber-fiat currency is being created to solve the problem. It is inflationary - pure and simple. we - you and me - are beginning to pay the price for money that is being dumped in to shore up a destructive situation. And the perpetrators are getting away scott-free while WE pay for their sins.
Let's say that the CGs commit a similar sin in the next 5 years. If the IMF dumps a bunch more money to paper over the losses, then we pay the price by through more inflation. Then in the next round, it happens again. What if WE get sick of this and demand for it to stop, then we get the same scenario as would have ocurred if we had demanded that the piper has been paid ( as it should ) in the very beginning. The only difference is that $Billions have been burned up along the way.
As long as we have CGs that create fiat currency that they inflate at the drop of a hat, then we continue to pay the price. Your labor is discounted in the marketplace of the funny-money-drome.
THE ANSWER --
1. Own tangible gold.
2. Wait for a currency that is directly gold backed.
3. Place your investments in that currency.
NOTE: In the 1987 crash, we had retracement of the Stock Market. But the bigger story was the FED intervention the following day. If they hadn't intervened with credit extension and gotten companies to buy their own stock, we would have seen a meltdown of the entire system then. REMEMBER -- The FED can only pull on a string with hopes of a desired outcome - they can't push on it. In that way, they can't completely manipulate the market. Only true market forces can rule supreme. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:19
Myrmidon (@ orator) ID#345176: -
gold will buy more house after a year. No need to be contrarian while real estate is sinking. If the price of sheep falls then we are going to really have a feast in the US ( we import a lot of NZ lamb ) . - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:19
tolerant1 (some interesting reading on Y2K) ID#31868: - http://www.zdnet.com/zdprograms/y2k
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:18
Trinovant (Spud Master - repost Clinton Y2K order request Apr 08 1998 15:57) ID#359316: - Repost of Date: Fri Jan 09 1998 18:11
fundaMETAList ( All: Future Programmer Confiscation ) ID#341214:
Clinton's Executive Order, April 15th 1999
http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980109.181125.fundameta.htm
At your service...
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:13
Open-Loop (Lock&Load@ Your Post...) ID#176200: - BRAVO!!! More people should read the Constitution! Like the current
Administration. If More people read it maybe they would wake up and
get angry! Our fore fathers were not stupid...
Not speaking for my employer... - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:10
aurator (Any forestry analysts out there?) ID#257148: - Rented radio chatter an autumn antipodean ante meridian
More lay-offs in the logging industry. Fletcher Forests report log exports to Korea and Japan have all but ceased. 30% of local work force to go.
Median house prices in auckland fell 6% from December to February. Ivory Tower academic advises no-one should buy a house for a year. Ho boy...
Oh, I do like to be a contrarian
Gold is good, but goodness is better.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 16:07
chas (John Disney) ID#342282: - That bunch at Harmony must have a heel of a team of good geologist and mineralogist. They don't say much, but if you have a contact, I would like to talk to them. Thanx
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:57
Spud Master (repost of fake Clinton Year2000 Executive Order requested....) ID#273112: - my fellow travelers here at MakeMyDay Inc. are demanding a copy of the
fake Clinton Year2000 Executive Order drafting all able bodied [sic] software engineers into registering with the FedGov.
Would the author of this delightful creation please repost it or point me to its location?
thanks,
Spud - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:52
Gaston2 (10 o'clock, US esteran time... POG drop) ID#377211: - For three days in a row, POG has dropped at exactly 10 AM US Eastern Time ( Oohlala! -- I suppose a statisticaly completely random event ( yeah! right! ) ) ... The subsequent effect of each drop has been less and less effective.... mmmmh!.... Time for shorts to cover because tomorrow we might have a rise at 10 AM US Eastern time... for a change...
ANOTHER whispered that to me in mon oreille... ( eheheh! )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:46
Silverbaron (SDRer @ gold franc) ID#289357: -
It is interesting to note ( and I'm sure NO coincidence ) that the modern International Gold Franc of 0.29XXX grams of fine gold is EXACTLY the same measure as the Franc ( and Lira ) in pre-WWI gold coins....
Belgium, Swiss, French 20 Franc and Italian 20 Lira gold coins ALL contain 5.8064 grams of fine gold.
It almost as if some parts of the world never new the US$ existed, eh?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:43
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR MYR-) ID#431263: - In a word? D-I-V-E-R-S-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N! Vengold also has other exploration plays IN ADDITION TO THE LIHIR MINE!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:38
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR DIZ-) ID#431263: - Or maybe they knows something you don't about ANC Mandela and those who will follow him after he dies! By the way Diz 1/20 oz. of gold per share is hardly gold dust even if the potential resource at Lihir is as understated as you infer. Fact is there is probably more gold at Lihir than at Harmony and more readily accesible! Will have to wait 10-15 years before we'll know for sure and by that time we'll either be dead or loungin' on the green dreamin' at the stars!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:35
Myrmidon (LORD DISNEY and CHEESEHEAD) ID#345176: -
John:You were right about HARMONY, up $1/4 at $4 3/4 ( +5.35% ) .
We may have a second chance to repurchase? Who knows...
@ CHEESEHEAD: Since you own VENGF why do you own LIHIR? I checked VENGF and it is significantly more active than LIHIR.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:29
kitkat (RPP:TSE) ID#208393: - Over 13 million shares traded today. Can someone please explain the action on this company. I know it's paper but I'm desperately trying to understand how this crazy financial system works. I've been watching this small company since mid December and it has gone from .19 to .35 cents. What puzzles me the most is the huge number of shares traded each day. In contrast pls explain how a sale of 200 shares in CTR:TSE can create a .50 cent movement?
All help AND flames appreciated. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:25
tolerant1 (fell right out of the chair, still recovering...John Disney) ID#31868: - training mine priceless, simply priceless.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:23
Frustrated (@Preacher) ID#298259: - Thanks...you're right something is better than nothing.
Could I also trouble you as to where you found the article about Pacific Amber Resources which you wrote about a few days ago. Nothing has shown up on their Web site as yet. Silverbaron was the other person I know who also owns some of this stock. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:22
Spud Master (last message from PPT @ Wolf 379...) ID#273112: - we have encountered the GoldBorg
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:20
Spud Master (all right! who just sold 100 shares of silvw?) ID#273112: - fess up. don't you know them warrants
are gonna be worth a bleed'n fortune
some day? Jes imagine, all the Norwegian
Blues you could every want, an purty girls
too to listen to the melodius sounds of so
many popinjays. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:20
SDRer__A (SilverBaron--Just a quick note ) ID#286250:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
We must view the GF as a
STANDARD OF MEASUREMENT = 0.29XXXXXX
that defines, in term the SDR or, depending on the contract/agreement,
in other currencies, the terms of payment. It provides the standard of
measurement...it's relationship to the others is a definable ratio!
One must BE a central bank to actually “trade” in GF but MANY have the
opportunity to have their accounts DEFINED by GF [see BIS’s rules for currencies and how they are translated for BIS purposes.
The FACT is: business has available a standard of measurement which makes it possible to PREDICT important business considerations [like liabilities, payments, e.g.] The FACT is: it is NOT the dollar!
Will post the data and sources when I return....much happening!
BBML
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:20
John Disney__A (Lihir Paper is like US money supply) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - For Cheezeheed
I dont recall any truce talk. I notice YOU dont like
to talk about the 900 milliom pieces of paper .. The
project is colorfull.. Ill believe the economics when
I see more operation ... so far I see 250 $/oz total
cost PLUS 50$/0z up front to do the project.... not
that impressive but ok... problem is ONE share only
buys you about a molecule of gold dust..
On RSA costs ...The total cost on harmony will be down
to about 280 $/oz in the 2nd quarter. Durban deeps wont be too
far off that but I dont buy DDeeps yet. Western
deeps is mining one shaft now at less than 180$/oz.
The RSA costs are dropping so fast I cant keep up with
them ... Deeper is Cheeper. Buy RSA if you like gold..
buy Lihir if you like PAPER.. you'll get lots of it.
Im starting to get enthusiastic about RSA mines ..
They bought the Canadian mine for 13 MILLION canadian
That seems pretty cheap.. maybe they're gonna use it as a
training mine.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:19
Preacher (Market Update) ID#227290: - To all:
It looks to me like the XAU could not close its gap on the daily chart from last Friday and now its heading up again toward new highs.
I think 110 is a reasonable target. Let's see how close it gets.
I'll have more later.
The Preacher - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:17
Preacher (Frustrated & REO) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - It's true the mine in Uruguay is still operating. The receivers padlocked the doors at REO's office. Somehow, only the subsidiary that operates the Bisset Mine declared bankruptcy. I have never fully understood it.
Hopefully, Harmony's money will enable REO to pay off much of the loan it owes Rothchild's, and go back into business ( trading ) with one operating mine, one formerly producing, shut-down mine, and a bunch of debt. That may not sound too good. But it's a heck of a lot better than where REO is right now.
CEO Ian Smith merged his company American Resource Corp with REO and became CEO over consolidated company. To his surprise, both of REO
s major assets, Mt. Hamilton and Bisset, bombed out and failed, while only Smith' San Gregorio mine in Uruguay has been successful.
From Smith's point of view, and that of his ARC shareholders, he would have been much, much better off by not merging. I think he was hoodwinked by REO management.
A hard lesson learned.
Hopefully, this is the first step back to something better.
The Preacher - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:16
Spud Master (@2BR02BR) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - from TLSOJAP, by T.S. Eliot, well-known closet goldbug:
And indeed there will be time
To wonder, ‘Do I dare?’ and, ‘Do I dare?’
Time to turn back and descend the stair,
With a bald spot in the middle of my hair—
[They will say: ‘How his hair is growing thin!’]
My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin—
[They will say: ‘But how his arms and legs are thin!’]
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
re. Oppy & snooty New England int-te-lect-uals spout'n off
with yer damn Eastern mythos: Ve vill this var! Und de next too! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:09
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (VIEL DANK CARPE AUREM!) ID#431263:
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Let's get rich together, eh? Thanks for the recent news item! Hadn't seen that one yet, but I DO know that it is management's intention to eventually take a majority stake in LIHIR and CONTROL! As Ian Telfer the CEO once quipped, We're involved in the slowest take-over in the history of mining! Best of luck to you mein Herr and keep us posted if you hear any more news on Vengold or Lihir!
HERR ALLEN--Where's the new moniker? Come on, Junge! GET ON THE SHTICK! Provide us with some color! And wipe that grin off your chin! Somebody might actually mistake you for a living breathing human being with feelings and EMMMMMMMMOTTTTTIIIIIAAAANNNNNN! Yes? : ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:03
OLD GOLD () ID#238295: - Shorts again tied to slam gold this morning, but got crushed in a powerful counterattack. Easy to see which way the wind is blowin. Shorts who don't cover soon will be giving back the huge profits they made in the 1996-97 gold bear.
Still don't think the overall market is in danger of a REALLY BIG DECLINE ( OVER 10% ) until POG hits $350 area. Probably several months away. But after that the dipsters will be paying their dues in spades. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 15:02
Frustrated (Thanks Jack...Anyone got any info on what happened to Rea Gold?) ID#298259: - Thanks, worked second time. Looking for information on REO actually. Wanted to know what happened to them since their bankruptcy filing. Rumor has it they were still operating a mine after filing bankruptcy.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:57
Charles Keeling (@ LOCK&LODE RE: YOUR POST AT 13:05) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Gosh, that's what I have been saying all
along! Do you think cash will be king again
like after the crash of 29?
I hope for a slow bear market lasting 3-5
years. A sudden all the way crash where ALL
paper assets now in the market are gone in a
few weeks would be detrimental to most
everyone. In this instance, I think that
cash, including silver/gold, would certainly
be king.
My outstanding debt is .00
I am waiting to buy land and real estate at
10 cents on the dollar using silver/gold/cash.
Of course, hoping that the scenario you have
painted so clearly does NOT become reality.
JUST A SLOW BEAR.....WITH GOLD SILVER RISING!!
AND...I think we have seen the top for this
market when 9000 was reached.
THE BEAR MAY BE HERE ALREADY!!!!!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:57
Jack (Frustrated; see post at 14:46 whiuch ought to get you there.) ID#252127: -
Also in Yahoo International there is another article about Harmony but covers both their SA and Canada plans.
USA Gold is talking about a world central bank today issue, probably just scuttle butt, but if such came into being; it may be The Bank of International Settlements. Anyone? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:56
farfel (Just one question about something not related to GOLD...) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - ...and yet, it is related to gold.
Many of you discuss your computer systems at great length on this forum.
To those computerbugs, I have one singular question regarding computers:
COMP USA stock ( the huge, computer retailer ) trashed recently when it revealed dismal computer retail sales and expectations of even more dismal results around the corner.
Yet, computer manufacturers like COMPAQ, IBM, etc. are holding up their stock values and, in some cases, increasing in value.
Does that make one iota of sense? Are the values of these stocks sustained completely by corporate share buybacks? Hmmmmmm?
Look out below. IMHO.
Thanks.
F*
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:56
2BR02B? (@SpudMaster/the art of arrogance) ID#266105: -
For long after dinner hours a guest monopolizes the
conversation, a long winded dissertation on the meaning
of the Bhagavahd Gita, Oppy silent the whole time. When
apparently wrapped up, dinner party over, Oppenhiemer:
'You obviously haven't read it in the orginal Sanskrit.' - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:55
Allen(USA) (Golden cheese colored chihuahuas biting my ankles!) ID#246224: - Ouch! You little bugger. No more Tequilla for you. I must say that your post last night was the funniest thing you've written. LOL and weeping while laughing ( LOLWWL ) . You are right. I have no right to posture or criticize your style. But its back into the cage for you until you can mind!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:53
Suspicious (Lock&Load / Market manupilation !) ID#285121: - I agree that long term speaking the market can not be manulilated. However I think except for manipulation Japan would have hit bottom in about 1993-94 and would now be in a state of recovery. Also it is excepted by most that the PPT turned the market up on Oct. 28th. Since then the equities market has sucked up another 1.3 trillion. Long term the PPT caused a much more desasterous crash ahead. My point is short term the market can be manupilated and always produces bad results. Someday there may be a linch mob witch hunt for the PPT and it's leader.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:52
ForkLift__A (Message to Fleet Admiral Greenspan) ID#324266: - Incoming Gold!! Activate the spud shields!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:51
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HARMONY BYIN' BANKRUPT REA MINE!) ID#431263: - CHEEEZE DIZZY--even SA DEEEEEPS recognize value of owning and mining a NA mine--even if it has a multi-million dollar lien attached! : )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:50
Carpe Aurem (@Cheesehead) ID#339292: - Dear Herr Cheesehead,
Thank you for your comments on Vengold. My numbers show that it is currently trading at a 43% discount to undiscounted NAV, although I would also point out that the main reason why one would get the exploration assets for free would be because they're not worth anything, but Lihir still does have enormous blue-sky potential. Not to mention the fact that VEN is in the process of raising $65 Million in equity financing, which will be used to buy more Lihir paper.
Looks okay to me. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:49
Ted (SAM----California..................or Swans Island Maine...(one and the same,eh)) ID#330175: - later....for reason,huh...How bout them Yankees last night ( kicked some Mariner-butt ( finally!! )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:47
Frustrated (Jack) ID#298259: - Harmony article...URL says document expired can you give me a key word or something to get me there. Harmony symbol didn't get me the article either.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:46
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (WHAT'S THIS?) ID#431263: - ASIA UP! DOW DOWN! ABX now HIGHER on the day after morning sell-off! Can the XAU be far behind? OOOOPS! Just saw it FLASHING HIGHER 1.50 + pts.! Almost to 88! BONDS are now in BIG TROUBLE! TOO much competition from Korea, and JAPAN sellin' US treasuries! ( CNBC ) Ugly close for stocks and bonds developin'! BUY GOLD AND HOLD!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:46
Jack (HARMONY buys Canadian Mine from Reo Gold......How about that) ID#252127: -
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/harmony_go_1.html - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:43
Ted (Poorboys.......and pork bellies(ugh)------------------) ID#330175: - good call!!!----STUDio.R---always prefer the $$$ up front ( not that I'm paranoid,EH ) ....Weather bleak---fire burnin in fireplace---grooooovy...back to somethin ( ? ) ....
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:43
2BR02B? (@the real point) ID#266105:
Copyright © 1998 2BR02B?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
The gold coin system has this little-realized advantage: once the coins are circulating widely, it is difficult, embarrassingly and costly to call them back. This obliges the government in office to reflect carefully before letting itself get into a situation where
a planned devaluation would necessitate recalling gold coins.
- monetary economist Donald Kemmerer
The excellence of the gold standard is to seen in the fact that it renders the determination
of the monetary unit's pruchasing power independent of the policies of governments and
political parties. Furthermore, it prevents rulers from eluding the financial and budgetary
prerogatives of the representive assemblies. Parliamentary control of finances works
only if the goverment is not in position to provide for unauthorized expenditures by
increasing the circulation of fiat money. Viewed in this light, the gold standard appears
as an indispensable implement of the body of constitutional guarantees that make the
system of representative goverrnment function.
- Ludwig von Mises
We've seen how the deficits under the fixed-rate, key-currency systm gave first push to
inflation, and how the system evolved into the floating world of paper money. My
suspicion is that this era of infinitely inflatable currencies will not go on forever, and
in fact, that it is rather late in the era. My other suspicion is that this floating world,
this looseness, reflects the society around it. Its virtues are flexibility and mobility.
But we are told that people now are used to instant gratification; capitalism by its
very definition is based on some postponed gratification, whether by goverments
or people, so that capital can be originated, invested, and compounded. We are
told that our respect for institutions is declining, and that those institutions--
marriage, schools, courts-- are not what they used to be. Yet the smooth
functioning of capitalism needs permanent insitutions, so that the time can
be granted for seeds to be planted, to sprout, and to grow up, for investments
to mature.
We shape our houses, and then they shape us.
- Paper Money; George Goodman alias 'Adam Smith'
The trouble with paper money is that it rewards the minority that can manipulate money
and make fools of the generation that has worked and saved.
- ibid.
If under the the gold standard, a government is asked to spend money for something
new, the minister of finance can say: And where do I get the money? Tell me, first,
how I will find the money for this additional expenditure.
Under and inflationary system, nothing is simpler for the politician to do than
to order the government printing office to provide as much money as they need
for their projects. Under a gold standard, sound government has a much better
chance; its leaders say to the people and to the politicians: We can't do it unless
we raise taxes.
But under inflationary conditions, people acquire the habit of looking upon the
government as an institution with limitless means at its disposal: the state, the
government, can do anything. If, for instance, the nation wants a new highway
system, the government is expected to build it. But where will the government
get the money?
- von Mises
It is no accident that inflationary policies are generally advocated by those who
want more government control-- though, unfortunately, not by them alone. The
increased dependence of the individual upon government which inflation produces
and the demand for more government action to which this leads may for the socialist
be an argument in its favor. Those who wish to preserve freedom should recognize,
however, that inflation is probably the most important single factor in that vicious
circle wherein one kind of government action makes more and more government
control necessary. For this reason, all those who wish to stop the drift toward
increasing government control should concentrate their efforts on monetary
policy. There is perhaps nothing more disheartening than the fact that there
are still so many intelligent and informed people who in most other respects
will defend freedom and yet are induced by the immediate benefits of an
expansionist policy to support what, in the long run, must destroy the
foundations of a free society.
- F. A. Hayek
A contemporary political philosopher of sorts, William Greider, also noticed the
connection between the government's control of money and its control over the
destiny of private citizens. In his 1987 book, Secrets of the Temple: How the
Federal Reserve Runs the Country, Greider refers admiringly to an earlier era
when people dared to question the political implications of determining the
value of money: what he finds singularly odd is the extent to which modern
American culture has repressed the knowledge of money. He cites a
collective blocking out of rational opinion on the subject, as if people
would prefer to accept monetary manipulation as an arcane managerial
function of government. When the money question was alive in American
politics, Greider notes, before its meaning was repressed, before there
was a temple called the Federal Reserve, people knew that money was
politics and that democracy depended on it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Manifestly nothing is more vital to our supremacy as a nation...than a sound
and stable currency. Its exposure to degradation should at once arouse to
activity the most enlightened statesmanship, and the danger of depreciation
in the purchasing power of the wages paid to toil should furnish the strongest
incentive to prompt and conservative caution.
- President Grover Cleveland
We have talked at this conference about the importance of monetary reform
for trade among nations. We have talked about its importance for debtor
nations and creditor nations. Lets not forget that what is true of nations
is also true of individual workers, savers, investors, businesses and families.
People are creditors when they save for their children's college education
or for retirement. They are debtors when they borrow to buy a house or start
a business. They deal with exchange rates when they travel or shop for an
automobile-- or when the local steel plant lays off workers because of imports.
They experience the high cost of capital why they take out a car loan. They
experience the depreciation of money when they buy food at the supermarket.
The monetary issue is anything but remote from people's experience. In my
experience, honest, sound, stable money is a popular, blue-collar, bread-and-
butter, winning political issue.
Jack Kemp; 1985
To these people one should answer first of all: One of the privileges of a rich
man is that he can afford to be foolish much longer than a poor man. And
this is the situation of the United States. The financial policy of the United
States is very bad and is getting worse. Perhaps the United States can
afford to be foolish a bit longer than some other countries.
- Ludwig von Mises, Economic Policy: Thoughts for Today and Tomorrow
pg. 72; 1979
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:41
Spud Master (Message from Fleet Admiral Greenspan) ID#273112: - We are massing Plunge Fleet forces at Wolf 379 to meet the GoldBorg
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:41
Jack (HARMONY buys Canadian Mine from Reo Gold......How about that) ID#252127: -
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/harmony_g_1.html - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:39
farfel (@LOCK&LODE...You 13:05 is incisive intellectual analysis...) ID#340302: - ...and from the time you first posted here, I knew you possessed a particularly keen perception about history, markets, and mass psychology.
Once again, you confirmed it.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:36
STUDIO.R (@EB......and, er....Teddo) ID#288369: - EB, I shall return.
Teddo....just between me and you.... ( get yer money up front on that California construction job ) ....no gold in that damn hill. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:34
Silverbaron (Lock&Lode) ID#289357: - Here's a little piece of work on American Gold ownership:
http://www9.pair.com/xpoez/money/gold
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:34
Spud Master (Yellow Alert ... Plunge Protection Team man your stations....) ID#273112: - At the Wall Street Trinity Test Site, Auric Goldfinger looked out and said:
Behold, I am become wild-assed panic, destroyer of paper - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:30
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR DIZZY) ID#431263:
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Ain't no hotter at Lihir than it is DEEEEEEEEP within the catacombs of DROOY et al. As I recall seeing on the Learning Channel one lazy Sunday afternoon, many SA miners have to wear air-conditioned suits to mine down there deeeeeep within the bowels of the earth. Whatever! The engineering challenges you point to are nothing that haven't already been solved at other mines of similar geologic structure and also at LIHIR! The mine is brand new, operating at higher efficiences than planned and production schedules have been ratcheted higher to increase production earlier than had been hoped! LIHIR is a winner any way you slice it!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:29
chas (Silverbaron re your 13:23) ID#342282: - I forgot your contribution to my last post. If you're willing to take the flack, I'll stand by. The details that yiou turned up are important because they determine decisions that will be made by the $ volume effecting the markets. I'm still gestating. My main concern is to separate brokers and agents from dealers and holders of substantial quantities of gold. The dealers should be able to make the market +/-. Thanx
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:28
Lock&Lode (farfel your 13:57 -- US Securities transferred into Euro$) ID#266110: - I concur and invite you to read my 13:05.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:26
EB (I told you Studio...) ID#22956: - It is also a wax museum, a night club/bar, a movie house, a tanning salon ( we do live in CA ) , restaurant, hotel and casino. The wink is just a bonus. Next time you are out this way I welcome you to stop by.
away
Éß
go plat. ( $ ) go abx. ( doh! ) . - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:24
HenryD (XAU is in positive territory!!!) ID#36156: - .
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:23
farfel (@EB re: gold bull market manipulators...) ID#340302: - ...yes, you figured that one out, my old crotchety gold shorter friend....
...and isn't it great!!! BRAVE NEW GOLD BULLS...THEY'RE HERE AT LAST...THEY DON'T CARE...THEY'RE BUYING MORE...AND THEY'RE TAKING DELIVERY!!!
The fear is mounting in the gold short camp because remember the cardinal new rule of the NEW GOLD PARADIGM...
...CB gold purchases are bullish for the price of gold
...but CB gold sales are even more bullish for the price of gold
Thanks.
F*
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:22
ForkLift__A (Lock&Lode 13:05) ID#324266: - Bravo! Most entertaining scenario, well thought out. The alternative to it would be some sort of complete global oppression but, as you point out, it's too late, those who would control the world have lost control; due mainly to their vanity.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:16
STUDIO.R (@All.....) ID#288369: - Sorry...I guess Bart thought eb needed to be reminded three times.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:14
STUDIO.R (@EB......) ID#288369: - Exactly what kind of roaches do you have scattered 'round the mausoleum? Huh? I remind you...one itty-bitty winkie ain't goin' cut it in the New World Disorder. your pal, studio.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:14
tolerant1 (sam) ID#31868: - I am unable to explain further, I am chastised by chains of emotional bondage from years of modeling at the Mr. Potato factory. The strain would be far too much for me.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:13
STUDIO.R (@EB......) ID#288369: - Exactly what kind of roaches do you have scattered 'round the mausoleum? Huh? I remind you...one itty-bitty winkie ain't goin' cut in the New World Disorder. your pal, studio.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:13
STUDIO.R (@EB......) ID#288369: - Exactly what kind of roaches do you have scattered 'round the mausoleum? Huh? I remind you...one itty-bitty winkie ain't goin' cut in the New World Disorder. your pal, studio.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:12
Lock&Lode (@ PHinLA, your 13:33 --- Those who hold US Treasuries) ID#266110:
Copyright © 1998 Lock&Lode/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - You're correct in your assertion up to a point. The assumption is that as long as the US Govt is willing to honor it's agreement, then you will get paid for your Treasuries.
But what happens if the USGvot defalts or pays back with inflated dollars? In the latter, you get your cash. But maybe its worth the same amount as Confederate currency is today.
Admittedly, the Treasuries hold a gun to the head of the US Govt. But that's assuming you have a round in the chamber. The Govt can take that round out either through payment of inflated $ or refuse to pay. Then what do you have? NADA !!!!
The only true leverage that you have is tangible gold ( backed up by your 2nd Amendment BILL OF RIGHTS ) . With these two components, you can keep an otherwise unbridled government that tramples over the unalienable rights of the people. Did I hear Thomas Jefferson just say something about an obligation by the people to take back the government when it ran rampant?
If anyone doubts the veracity of some of my potentially outlandish statements, then check your Constitution.
1. Section 8 states: The Congress sall have Power... to coin Money.. [and]... to provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting...the current Coin of the United States. This infers gold and silver coin. Not fiat currency ( that is not directly 100% backed by gold and silver that is immediately available upon demand ) .
2. Section 10 states: No State shall... coin Money; EMIT BILLS OF CREDIT; MAKE ANY THING BUT GOLD AND SILVER COIN... There can be no question of what the founding fathers meant about Money and Coin when they wrote this, because they defined it.
The point being: US Treasuries are only funny money. It is incumbent upon those who are wise to obtain true money - Gold and Silver COIN. You can take it all the way to the Supreme Court. My guess is that in 1932, those who knew the truth about Gold and Silver COIN were in the backpocket of FDR and did not contest the truth, because they were benefitting and would continue to benefit from a currency that was taken off gold.
My assertion is that contrary to common belief, we went off the gold standard in 1932. Why? Because it was illegal for the public to own it. Then we went off the silver standard with LBJ. Since then, we've been on the funny money standard with lots of BLUE SKIES.
MY WARNING: Don't view US Treasuries as being the ultimate end. Only GOLD can fulfill that role !!!!! Both the Constitution and History bear witness.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:11
Silverbaron (Mike Sheller @ 13:33 (another authority)) ID#289357: - Mike - you stated: I set my sights with another authority.
Can we get in on this, and how much for a time travel ticket - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:11
Trinovant (for ANOTHER conspiracy theorists...) ID#358318:
- - There is a teacher, whose words have interesting resonances with ANOTHER's writing... this teacher has a non-western sounding name, is based in the USA, is a prolific computer/internet user, has worked as a systems analyst, claims to have had 5 careers, makes extensive use of discussion lists, has been published in the New York Times and other places including .gov websites, and is director of a non-profit institute. This institute is modelled after a Caravanserai model, named after the oasis points on Middle Eastern trade routes where camel caravans stopped to exchange goods and prepare for the next journey.
Here are some interesting phrases that he uses, that made me think of ANOTHER:
more and more high end uses of the internet take up more and more of our consciousness ( as measured by lines of discussion ) . We didn't seem to be a friendly space. We need to think long and hard on this one.
Pay the dues to deal with the masters ( the giants upon whose shoulders *they* have stood ) ...
we can learn from one another as never before in history.
To reach the stars, aim at the Sun!
The heaviest talents you see on the net are ( usually ) approachable, and as people get to know one another, by their thoughts and works, evermore stars come into view.
Interesting, yes?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:10
EB (Calling on Mike Sheller) ID#22956: - Mike - I need to ask a favor of you. I have the birthday of the opening of the museum. Would you care to give me a reading? The coin arrived on 2/6/98. We opened the museum with a cocktail party starting at 6.00 pm. Attendance WAS low. It was just two of us. My girlfriend and I.....we had delicious wine though. So it was not a total loss.
Thanks for the help...
away...really
Éß© - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:10
sam (Ted) ID#286234: - Dont woory I know what you mean, I tink. Understand you may be arriving in ***California*** soon. Whether is here, wish you were bootiful ;- )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:09
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR MYR-) ID#431263:
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Forgot to mention that an alternative way for NA investors to play LIHIR
is to buy VENGOLD ( VEN.T in Canada and VENGF in US ) . Vengold owns 10.3% of Lihir and currently trades at a discount to the Lihir shares. 1 3/16 last time I looked. What is more you get all their exploration plays for practically nothing! They now have a long term cash flow from Lihir which just reported profits in the 4th Q of '97 of $11.7 million dollars! Since there are 99 million shares outstanding and since they own 10.3% of Lihir's 900 million shares, each VENGOLD share is roughly the equivalent of ONE SHARE OF LIHIR. At 1 3/16 Vengold currently trades at healthy 40 cent DISCOUNT to LIHIR a situation which simply cannot continue for very much longer! I own 25,000 shares of Vengold so I'm puttin' my own hard geld where mein MUND is! You will have to make up your own mind! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:08
jimsy (XAU & gold futures) ID#254377: - http://webhome.idirect.com/~ervenj/qp2.jpg, OK who said what to get futures going?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:08
farfel (@OLD GOLD...Re: your 07:51...you notice that Japan...) ID#340302: - ...is starting to ignore a tidal wave of bad news.
Ask yourself what is the corollary to this statement...
U.S.A. markets will start to pay attention to the bad news.
Thanks
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:06
Robert FRANKLIN__A (Only a humble grandfather of Horse Lake B.C.-like reading your site) ID#41385:
Copyright © 1998 Robert FRANKLIN__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - You fellows seem to have a grasp of things. Since OD passed away & I have been idle....upside has been your revelations. Tell me...in responce to Central Bank's comments that gold is to play a smaller part in the new currency ( & I am not certain I believe them ) ....the Central Bank still seems to be adamantly squirreling it away. The last big sale was to no less... itself to create some illussion was it not? Does not the Central Bank, ( excluding their friends & family ) still own 68% of all the world's gold?
http://100milehouse.net/RealEstate/BeaconHill/Default.htm - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:05
STUDIO.R (@JTF....) ID#288369: - I'm sorry I don't want to think about oil production costs or the O-Peckers....it all makes me sick to my stomach....every barrel we pump...we lose $2...I'd shut 'em all in but several good men would be without work. Oil sucks right now.
Let's talk GOLD!!! GOLDBUGS RULE! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:01
Ted (SAM....my spell checker don't work or I' m too stoopid ta use ir right) ID#330175: - don't know which---XAU now only down .17
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 14:01
farfel (@EJ...RE: YOUR 09:20...U.S. DOLLAR SALES IN ADVANCE OF THE EURO...) ID#340302: - ...you are a sharp cookie, Mr. EJ...
...the theory of efficient markets suggests huge dollar sales IN ADVANCE of the EURO's creation....
...so you ask me when would I expect such sales to begin?
This is the best question asked on this forum today...and within the preceding sentence is a word which answers your question and...
...provides the major reason why I am, in the short term, extremely bearish on U.S. equities/bonds markets and bullish on gold & silver.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:57
Ted (EB....@ Wink Museum......................................* Go pink granite*) ID#330175: - I'm ready---when does the 'job' start?---thankx in advance~~~~
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:54
EB (*Wink Museum*) ID#22956:
- - CB - attendance at the wink museum has been down since opening. Experts blame El niño. Analysts blame the lack of interest in gold. Curator/Owner/CEO/Builder, EB, blames goldbugs. They just don't want to come out of the woodwork, he was quoted as saying. Once all the roaches come out then we will see some increase in attendance. It does have a little to do with those damnable storms though, [things got rough when the west wing started floating down the street]. Maybe we will have a good 'Indian summer' creating a frollicked-frenzy for the yellow. Time will tell. Plans for extra wings for the museum have been put on indefinite hold. Fundraisers and organizers are positive about the future though. They see new 'donations' coming in by week end. Say......50 bucks ( ? ) . With the new funds they hope to get back to construction. Ted of Cape Breton has been rumored moving to California to finish the job. His knowledge of the gold market and keen insight to hookah construction make him the ideal candidate for the job. EB was overheard saying, Yeah, I'm glad we picked up that Ted dude, he sure is an ASSet. I had my eye on him for a few years now, back when he was bought ABX ( doh! ) . With Ted's help we will soon rival the new Getty Museum in Bel Air....er Santa Monica....uh.....up on the hill. Attendance will skyrocket. On other news........
away...to work
Éßߣ©
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:53
sam (Ted/tolerant1) ID#286279: -
I am the one who is slow. I use spell checker most of the time.
Sincerely, tol1 “...the first in your family to walk upright...” is still something of a puzzle for me, would you mind spelling out what it means?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:51
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR MYR-) ID#431263:
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - LIHRY currently 1,000 BID at 29 1/14; 500 ASK @ 29 7/8. Take 500 at the ask for 29 7/8 and you own 10,000 Aussie shares of Lihir at roughly $15,000. Simple as that!
HERR SHELLER--Agree with you--BUY AND HOLD!
HERR DIZZY--Thought we had a kind of truce going bordering on the civil?
Guess not! Whatever! The big questions for SA gold stocks in general is HOW MUCH IS IT GONNA' COST TO GET IT OUT? AND WHO'S WILL IT BE ONCE YOU DO? I notice you are more than somewaht reluctant to come clean with the actual mining costs of your SA deeeeeeps! I suppose I could return to G-E to find out but I'm too busy fending off your little disciple MYR! : ) Don't be mad with me, mein Freund, it's only a question about who's gonna' get richer faster and with more certainty! Notice I said nothing about SA politics, currency or labor strife. Just tryin' to be fair! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:51
Leland (PH in La) ID#31876: - Thanks for reminding, Dennis Burch's The Sting, posted by
Sharefin. Traditional media leaves a lot to be desired when
reporting the true world financial condition. Kitco posters,
like Sharefin, deserve kudos for filling some of the gaps.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:46
Spud Master (Yellow Alert ... Plunge Protection Team man your stations....) ID#273112: - At the Wall Street Trinity Test Site, Auric Goldfinger looked out and said:
Behold, I am become wild-assed panic, destroyer of paper - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:46
Preacher (Market Update) ID#225273:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - To all:
We've gotten the expected slide in the XAU this morning. It certainly has decelerated at this point with some of the stocks well off their morning lows. The gap from Friday morning did not get filled. But I'm not of the opinion we're totally out of the woods yet.
Maybe by today's close the picture will be clearer. A positive close in the XAU would be very bullish. Stranger things have happened.
Gold is also now $1.10 off its bottom of $309.40. We'll see how it closes too.
The problem I have with another slide on Thursday and Friday is that if gold closes below last Friday's close, then the weekly chart would look pretty sad. So at this point, I'm leaning toward a stop in the decline and a resumption of the rally on to or above the $320 level.
Happy trading,
The Preacher
PS -- One more thing: before the last runup in gold, Bema Gold turned up two days ahead of time. Bema has turned up today. Is this in anticipation of another move up by gold? I would think so.
The press release earlier this week outlining an additional 5.3 million ounces of gold was unimpressive to me as it was quite low in grade and will require $400 gold before it's economic.
OTOH, maybe that's why folks are buying Bema today, they think gold is going above $400 and want something that will appreciate by leaps and bounds once it does so. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:40
tolerant1 (John Disney) ID#31868: - In your neck of the woods I wonder if you have any news on Tan Range, TNX in Canada. I have oodles of shares in this stock and have been accumulating on weakness for about a year. I am still high on the stock but cautious as always.
Just curious if you have news that may not reach my sources. Thanks. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:40
HenryD (Lock&Lode, All - Hundreds of Millions) ID#36156: - I thank you very much ... and HenryD's education marches on...
HenryD - GG? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:37
Ted (Mike Sheller) ID#330175: - Agree shares might not soar with bullion---certainly not early in the game,huh---still 'paper'
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:36
Myrmidon (CHEESEHARDHEAD) ID#345176:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
First,
any stock below $30 I buy in 1,000 share min.
Second,
you stated that Most of the shares are now in the hands
of pension funds and institutions
American institutions trade the ADRs, why the inactivity?
Third,
When I place orders I use the Scwabb web site. Don't screw
around with brokers.
Fourth,
Take a better look at HARMONY and dig the percentage gains.
Fifth,
If I was in Aussie, I would buy the stock. The low volume
puts me ( and maybe many others ) off.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:33
PH in LA (The more things change, the more they stay the same) ID#225408: - Leland: re. your 10:30
Amazing how the same themes keep surfacing. By calling our attention to Erdman's story you made me remember a post by Sharefin ( Feb 25, 1998 01:54 ) that got a lot of attention back then entitled The Sting. Seems like anyone with enough US treasuries has leverage against the US government when they need it.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:33
Mike Sheller (VRONSKY, EJ) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - My dear friend Vronsky, I did NOT say gold stocks would go down in the next general bear market. ( your quote ) . I DID say If a severe stock market crash came within the next few weeks, gold stocks would
go down too. And that is because the gold bull is a mere just borning calf all covered with mucous ( are you listening Mary? ) and wobbly. The gold shares would not collapse, of course. They have ALREADY done so. They would, however, suffer another bout of weakness most likely. Sure, there is a chance they would soar along with gold. But that is not my take given the time it takes for mob psychology to re-educate and re align itself. Sorry, EJ, but I dont think Warren Buffet moved the market much, nor would anyone else, save, perhaps, Alan Greenspan rushing down the capitol steps shouting GET REAL, GET GOLD! I am one of the biggest gold bulls around Kitco. I unashamedly stand by my predictions of gold in the THOUSANDS of US dollars in the next decade. I was one of the first here to make such a proclamation.
The move coming in silver ( a few years down the road around 2003-2005 ) will stun the world and amaze investors looking back at today. But this new bull is going to be a long term play and only for the patient. Buy em' and forget about em' Kitcoites. Might as well go fishing as to go over the same arguments, news releases, and speculations. I know them ALL. I set my sights with another authority. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:31
John Disney__A (When you're HOT you're HOT) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - For Cheesehead ..
I had not realized that the Lihir price was in
Aussie $ . That means I went a little overboard and
Harmony will only rise 20 time as fast as Lihir ..
I can live with that.
You think that the whole Lihir island is made of gold
.. But then old boy you think your head is made of
cheese. I tend to agree with you on the latter point.
The MJ says that Lihir is located within the luise
volcanic Collapse caldera... now partly inundated by
the Pacific Ocean. Geothermal control has presented
engineering challanges... Maybe the song goes like
this ... Deep is Cheap ... HOT is NOT.
For those interested in Harmony .. They just announced
that they had bought a another shaft from Fregold AND a
small Underground mine in CANADA !!!!! Can you believe it.
Last Point ... IF we did not have a suddenly weak
dollar, we'd have a really crummy POG. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:30
jimsy (XAU, gold futures and other things) ID#254377: - http://webhome.idirect.com/~ervenj/qp2.jpg, ups and downs since the German fellow got quoted yesterday, almost looks like his statement is largely being ignored.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:30
Lock&Lode (@ HENRY D 12:45-----POG above ground when 100 million below) ID#266110:
Copyright © 1998 Lock&Lode/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - If we have a melting of fiat currency and there is a rush to gold. The short term POG goes stratospheric due to a panic - supply and demand. It will then create a major stimulus to get the stuff in the ground into the market. But this takes time - a lot more time than it takes the FED to generate $Billions of electronic fiat currency.
Your question is somewhat academic.
1. The market will respond.
2. POG goes up dramatically.
3. Wealth is transferred from the paper wealthly to the gold wealthy.
4. Gold is mined.
5. As gold comes into the market the POG drops.
6. Those who had gold see a drop in the price of gold, but so what. They're wealthy now.
7. POG ultimately finds a balance in price and supply. Production drops to a reasonable level of about 3-4% per year.
8. GOLD serves as true money as it should.
9. Governments cannot inflate.
10. Everyone is subjected to the inalienable laws of GOLD !!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:29
tolerant1 (Thought you folks might want to tune in if you are able.) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - From The Desk Of Peter Grandich April 8, 1998 Just some
tidbits of information I thought some would be interested in
hearing.
1 - One of the smartest most successful advisors I have ever
had the honor of becoming a close personal friend to, Mr.
Andy Addison, will be the guest Analyst on CNBC's
Squawk Box show, tomorrow,from 8:00AM to 10:00AM
EST. Andy has been ranked among the best stock, bond and
gold timers for many, many years.
Andy has graciously been a keynote speaker at the many
charity conferences I have held at the New Jersey shore. His
honesty and integrity to his work is only matched by his
devotion and love for his family.
I urge everyone to listen to Andy as he has been dead-on
regarding the stock market for over a decade ( unlike me ) and
has been on the long and short side of gold bullion at the right
times. He's not a Wall Street salesman so don't let his mild
manner fool you. He's one of the handful of people I look up
to in the business.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:27
Ted (June Gold) ID#330175: - Down 1.80 @ 310.20
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:24
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR MYR-) ID#431263: - CALL UP YOUR BROKER AND MAKE A BID! Who knows you might get some stupid fund manager to sell you a 100 shares. At $30/share that's $3,000. Doubt whether you've got the resources to buy more than that, but if you do place a bid for a 1,000 shares. Let's see now that'd be $30,000 wouldn't it! Last time I looked they was still makin' a market in the stock both bid and ask! So bid! DUH!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:23
Silverbaron (SDRer @ gold franc/ BIS) ID#289357:
- - It's funny how these searches lead you down dark alleys.....75% of the Gold owned by the BIS from its shareholders is UNPAID, and CALLABLE ON A 3 MONTH NOTICE......Central Bankers, you may be in deep doo doo... ( ;^ ) )
From the BIS website:
The authorised share capital of the Bank is 1,500 million gold francs, divided into 600,000 shares of equal nominal value ( 2,500 gold francs per share ) . At the close of the financial year 517,125 shares were in issue and, in accordance with Article 7 of the Statutes of the BIS, they are paid up to the extent of 25% of their nominal value ( 625 gold francs per share ) . The amount of the paid-up capital appearing in the Balance Sheet of the BIS at 31st March 1997 thus stands at 323.2 million gold francs.
The gold franc of the BIS has a gold weight of just over 0.29 of a gramme of fine gold, which is identical with the gold parity of the Swiss franc from the foundation of the BIS in 1930 until September 1936 when, after a number of leading countries had left the gold standard, the gold parity of the Swiss franc was suspended. The BIS employs the gold franc solely as a unit of account for balance-sheet purposes, assets and liabilities in US dollars being converted into gold francs at the fixed rate of US$ 208 per ounce of fine gold ( equivalent to 1 gold franc = US$ 1.94 ) and all other items in currencies being converted into gold francs on the basis of market rates against the US dollar.
:
Art. 7. ( 1 ) Twenty-five per cent. only of the value of each share shall be paid up at the time of subscription. The balance may be called up at a later date or dates at the discretion of the Board. Three month's notice shall be given of any such calls. [...]
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:21
Ted (SAM.......I can't spell cause I'm stoopid) ID#330175: - huh
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:21
tolerant1 (sam, sam, sam...I have told everyone on this forum on many an occasion, I) ID#31868: - am the first person in my family to walk upright.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:19
tolerant1 (Lock&Lode - Brabo!) ID#31868: - An excellent piece, open to discussion, and covering a great of territory. I will have to go over it a few times but I essentially agree with most of your commentary. cooling souffle great analogy.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:19
sam (tolerant1) ID#286279: - I don't know why rediculous stands out among the plethora of misspelled words here. It should be ridiculous.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:15
Myrmidon (HEADCHEESE or CHEESEHEAD - doesn't make any difference,) ID#345176: -
I am not a pension fund and if I buy LIHIR I will buy the ADR as I do of any foreign stock.
So, how do I trade a stock ( ADR in this case ) with 4 hour volume of
only 1,000 shares?
Look at some other ADRs and compare numbers.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:09
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR MYR--) ID#431263:
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Perhaps you didn't read the whole post, or perhaps you is blind as a bat, but LIHIR is an AUSSIE LISTING that trades ACTIVELY ON AN AUSSIE EXCHANGE! THE AUSSIE MARKET IS NOW CLOSED FOR THE DAY! What you are seein on your quotes screen is the US ADR. THE US ADR IS THE EQUIVALENT OF 20 AUSSIE SHARES. So 1,000 ADR's traded is the equivalent of 20,000 Aussie shares. Those who buy LIHIR ( institutions and pension funds ) usually buy LIHIR on the Aussie exchange where the major trading activity takes place
Most of the shares are now permanently in the hands of pension funds and institutions with a LONG TERM VIEW and will never see the light of day! Kinda' like your brain! : ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:08
Ted (EB) ID#330175: - mornin
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:08
chas (SDRer, Goose, JTF et al) ID#342282:
Copyright © 1998 chas/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Y'alls posts have accumulated an overload on me. After a few brandys, I feel I may add something. Let's put it this way- if I were a ME oil producer ( and whoever ) I would be as tight on gold as possible. Now without a directly convertible currency, request for payment for London Good Delivery gold could disrupt the market for gold and dollars. I don't know how many Swiss gold francs are available, but I would grab as many as possible. How do you take any portion of payment in US$ and buy gold w/o a self defeating problem? The shear volume of money here is the initial problem. SDR's may be an answer, but here again they are not directly convertible to gold. All of this on top of the jockeying for position of the Euro situation makes it like running across a bed of hot coals. I'm sure I don't have an Answer, but I believe the crowd here could pose some suggestions. Thanx for your ears.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:08
jman (Henery D, I suspect) ID#251268: - 1/3 to go to INDIA 1/3 to Asia and lets fight for the rest,
I think the population increase in Gold consuming countries is growing
faster than gold can come out of the ground,especialy if China ever
grabs a hold of capitapism and flourishes ,imagine what a market,
a while back someone posted about gold smugglers going in already!!!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:06
EB (morning call) ID#22956:
- - PRECIOUS METALS: COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures were
mostly higher early, with palladium rallying on shortcovering amid
increasing tightness in the cash market. In early trade, NYMEX
June palladium was up $5.80 at $265.00 an ounce. June gold fell
$0.70 to $311.30 an ounce, traded $311 to $312.50. There's a
$1.50 range, said one trader. There's nothing much going on.
The market is searching for a direction, as the speculation
continues over the role gold will have in the forthcoming European
Central Bank. Meanwhile, May silver was at $6.39 an ounce, up 1.3
cents. See Full Story at
http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=6943860-877
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...let's go people. Add no news to gold right now and you have sinking numbers.......that's the funnyMental side, no. This Euro % story thingy is obviously bring 'spread' by ( bull market ) manipulators. They spring it on whenever they need a boost. Much like the boy crying wolf.......after time you know what happened to that little boy....... ( ugh ) .
Lunchmeat... ( uh huh ) .
away
Éß ( $ )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:06
NJ (EB:Beware) ID#20748: - : )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:05
Lock&Lode (To ALL --- RE: Discussion of Markets and the current situation) ID#266110:
Copyright © 1998 Lock&Lode/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Some food for thought --- As I have been reading many of the posts over the last few days, most people believe that the conditions of the here and now will basically continue with a series of adjustments.
I would like to propose a differing perspective ( mainly to stimulate thought and discussion ) . The assumption that people make is that the FED and AG can control things in the US. This also assumes that other countries can do the same. If this is the case, then why did we have the burning of the Asian economy this past summer. If one were to have looked at conditions in the Spring of ‘97, Asia was the Cinderella kid. It was the only place to be invested and there was no downside. For anyone to think that there were fundamental problems that might bring the scenario down to its knees - would have been hereasy. You would have been laughed out of any discussion.
The point is to say - there is a lesson here. GOVERNMENTS CANNOT CONTROL MARKETS. While they can pull a fast one - as was done by subterfuge when currency inflation was occuring when currencies were ostensibly tied to the US$. The market sniffed this one out and fragged it badly.
Keep in mind the conditions. It came as a surprise and now we all look back at it as a normal event because we have factored it into our lives. But more importantly, our lives haven't changed. No, only those in the Far East who went deep into debt and now have to pay back an even greater amount of money. Why, because CGs sacrificed business for their own selfish ends.
We are witnessing a continued creation of capital out of thin air. Paper is flying everywhere with a vengence. CGs love it because it stimulates economies and brings in more tax revenue. Consumers love it because more money is out there flowing around and they can spend more for more goods. It produces the appearance of wealth. But it is a false wealth that can burn up in a moment when the paper value is eliminated by a downturn, whether it be a stock market drop or a deflation of asset value. ( Such a deflation of asset value is often used by CGs to prove that inflation is dead and deflation is right around the corner ) .
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LINEAR TREND --- THAT GOES ON THE SAME WAY INDEFINITELY. As is proven by Sarefin's last chart posted 4-7-98 @11.19, we are seeing some wild gyrations between gold and the DOW over the past 15 years. But very importantly, we are seeing a major divergence between the two right now. If one project both into the future at the same current rate, Gold will be worth $0 and the DOW will be worth $20,000. This just simple defies logic.
IMHO-there is a greater likelihood for the current divergence to do a direct reversal of the both current trends and in doing so, paper assets will burn and gold will take a rocket climb to the stratosphere.
KEEP SOME THINGS IN MIND:
1. We have had no gold or silver standards for the past 30 years. This has created unbridled inflation by CGs.
2. Massive debt - greater than ever seen before and fueled by the creation of even more funny money.
3. Paper Trading- everyone trades in paper from the FED to the COMEX and derivatives are the glue that binds it all together ( NOT! But it does in the minds of the economic elite of the day ) . The system will collapse.
4. You can't fool Mother Nature - Markets can be manipulated to a degree. But as proven by Asia, they can't be totally manipulated. Because it defies logic that we can have endless prosperity when people can get mortgages at 125% of their house's value - if 125% is good, then lets have more prosperity and raise it to 150%, then 200% and 500% and on and on. We'll all be prosperous forever.
5. Refection of Wealth by Paper - It is easy to inflate ( both by CGs and stock markets ) as paper bids the paper price higher and higher. But when it is so easy to produce more paper, then there will also be a time when the paper burns up and the paper value plummets. As this occurs, the only place that will not burn up is tangible Pms.
CORRELATION WITH HISTORY --- We all know that there have been mega-events in history:
1. Roman Empire - laissez-faire approach to control of conquered people ( law and military dominated )
2. Middle Ages - a time of great turmoil and oppressive control by the Church.
3. Renaissance - a major awakening and time of discovery.
4. Industrial Age - unleashing of industry and the formulation of Central Governments to control people's lives.
5. Micro-Technolgy Age - the emergence of the individual and entreprenurial spirit.
We are entering the 4th stage right now. The industrial age is dying and so are CGs -witness the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fracturing of the Soviet Union. The same forces that created this are acting upon Canada - Quebec wanting its own soverignty and the rest of Canada wanting to cut Labrador off into the Atlantic because it is such a load on the rest of the natin.
Similarly in the US, there are pressures and signs of mega-changes underway. But keep in mind, they don't occur overnight. Rome didn't fall in one day, it took numerous decades for the total collapse to occur. Changes are also occuring in the US over a longer term. IMHO-we are seeing the end of the Central Government era where the FedGov ruled supreme. They are runnning out of money while debt continues to rise at over $450 Billion per year. Does that say - endless prosperity? I think not.
EMU - GOLD BACKED CURRENCY.
If the EMU establishes a proportionally gold backed currency OR if any other government creates a true gold backed currency, I see a major shift and an immediate injury to other fiat currencies ( that could even be lethal ) . Upon thinking about this situation, I see the potential for EMU to create a KO for the US. There are several reasons. A gold backed currency will:
1. Attract Investment and Money. This will put the EMU into better competition with the US. Potentially, money - worldwide - will come flocking to the EMU. They will become the dominant economic engine.
2. Currency of Reseerve - The US$ is the current currency of reserve. The only other two currencies to offer any competition are the Yen and DMark. But the establishment of a EURO-DOLLAR takes the strength of the DMark farther when backed by gold and bringing the rest of Europe into the same gold backed system. ( Remember the standard Roman Faces - a bundle of rods and an axe, bound by a leather strap - denoting the strength created as individual rods are brought together in an unbreakable composite ) . The EMU can create the same strength: especially when the union is bound together by GOLD. Think of the impact.
3. Provide a Knock-Out ( KO ) punch for the US - At the same time that the EMU is attracting money and becoming the currency of reserve, it will have a by-product benefit. It will take the US back a few notches - and maybe irrrepairably. If the EMU becomes the currency of reserve, then US$ will be repatriated to the US from around the world. This will be inflationary. This could lead to an aversion to buy US Govt debt: T-bonds and bills. If this happens, then the cost of money - interest rates will rise dramatically as the USG tries to encourage buyers of their debt back into the market. This could easily start a downward spiral that feeds on itself as paper assets burn up - asset deflation.
4. Formally Usher-in the Micro-Techno Age - The above arguement opens up a whole new way to look at finance, the economy and fiscal policy. It will bring entry to a whole new way of looking at life and the world. Such a change would inevitably drive a stake through the heart of the dominance of the last 65 years of CG inflation.
BOTTOM LINE --- I think that we are in for some major fundamental change. Paper assets and fiat currency burn up in smoke. Gold and PMs become true money as they have always been - because they can't be inflated and the market refuses to be fleeced as they were over the past 65 years.
----- DEBT HAS TO BE EXTINGUISED!! When such the destruction of massive debt takes place, there has to be a similar massive impact to the economy. This is simple physics. When the debt is extinguished, it defies logic that we will simply have a couple of years of a downturn in the DOW and it comes back as it has over the past 7 years.
If the DOW averages a 10% gain/year, we have to experience a downturn of sizable magnitude in order to bring us back into balance. I agree with ROR in his 4-7-98 @ 07:09 - It will be at least 30 years before we see these levels again, just ask the Japanese. Then ROR makes another point in his 07:43. All of the manias retreated by a range of 89-90%. THAT'S 89-90% !!!! If you correlate that to the DOW now, then we see a drop to 1000. Think about it! Even if there isn't an event that takes the system down, there is the probability that the mania bubble of the stock / mutual fund markets just plain runs out of gas and then starts to implode like a cooling soufflee. Like the souflee that needs heat to keep it inflated, the market needs more fiat currency to maintain a pace that outstrips its true value based on P/E ratios and other rationale indicators.
This is not a NEW ERA. As Solomon said, there is nothing new under the sun - ALL IS VANITY. And the current market is VANITY when it is based upon inflated fiat currency. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:04
Ted (Argent....................from Sargent---------------------*go cedar & spruce*) ID#330175: - will do!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:03
A.Goose () ID#20135: -
Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Apr 08, 1998 @ 12:57 pm ET
Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.
GC M8 June Gold 3106 -14 -0.4 3125 3094 33.6K
SI K8 May Silver 6405 +28 +0.4 6485 6330 10.5K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 7840 +70 +0.9 7940 7750 5.56K
PL N8 July Platinum 4140 +15 +0.4 4160 4120 876
PA M8 June Palladium 26400 +480 +1.9 26600 26210 437 - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:03
NJ (EB:Beware) ID#20748: - Honi soit qui mal y pense.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:03
Ted (Why my e-mail service is down for a change(?)....how surprising,huh) ID#330175: - XAU down .57~~~~~~~~~~~
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:02
2BR02B? (@HenryD) ID#266105: -
In the case of Bre-X, the appearance then disappearance
of a bazillion ounces had just the opposite effect that one
would expect. Oh, the paradox of markets. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:01
tolerant1 (Go here and read todays Quotes link - interesting reading) ID#31868: - http://www.usagold.com
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 13:00
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR NOT TO BE--) ID#431263: - WOW! LIHIR down a whole 2 1/2 cents after several days of 15% moves higher! GOTT IM HIMMEL! BETTER SELL! Duh!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:58
RETIRED SOLDIER (Sorry again) ID#347235: - OTD stricks again Kirkpatrick not KerkpatricK
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:57
Myrmidon (Tete du Fromage - does price go down $3 when you sell 1,000 shrs?) ID#345176: -
LIHIR? ( LIHRY ) gentlemen take a look at this UNACTIVELY TRADED STOCK.
What volume to trade a stock! The market is open for 3 1/2 hrs. and only 1,000 shrs traded!
Good for widows and orphans I guess, ... and CHEESEHEADS! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:56
RETIRED SOLDIER (Swiss) ID#347235: - Sorry hit wrong button on previous, fat fingers and old timers disease conspire against me again. As long as we have idiots like MS ( ? ) Alldyke in the State Dept. the Swiss and every other Government will consider us a JOKE. If they wanted a woman as SecState why not one with brains like Jeanne KerkpatricK?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:54
HenryD (Hundreds of Millions of Ounces of Gold) ID#36156: - Please excuse a stupid question: What impact will the addition of 100's of millions of ounces of buried reserves have on POG above ground?
Just curious;
HenryD - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:53
tolerant1 (meanwhile in TN, USA, I would be taking a long hard look) ID#31868: - at ALTIF on NASDAQ folks, it is my Cuervo Central contention they will be moving much higher over the next 90 days. Much higher.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:53
RETIRED SOLDIER (Swiss) ID#347235: -
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:51
2BR02B? () ID#266105: -
Drooy, Harmony, Rangy unch or up. Lihir down. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:50
ForkLift__A () ID#324266: - JSE All Gold Index down 1.1% to 952.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:49
jman (I wouldn't worry about the Swiss,) ID#251268: - with the abilty to stay out of ww1 and 2,they obviously know how
to look after their own interest,maybe to a fault,as for gold I'm optomistic higher highs and higher lows even if marginal are encouraging especialy with many upcoming factors coming into play soon - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:49
Ted (XAU) ID#330175: - down .63~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:46
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR MYR) ID#431263:
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - What Herr Disney ( I hesitate to call him LORD, since he puts on his undies one leg at a time as we all do ) fails to mention is that the WHOLE ISLAND OF LIHIR HAS EXCELLENT GOLD MINERALIZATION! NO ONE YET KNOWS JUST HOW MANY OUNCES OF GOLD WILL BE PROVEN OR PROBABLE ON THIS PACIFIC GEM! There could literally be HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF OUNCES OF GOLD on this island and RTZ the engineer of this project holds mining rights to the WHOLE ISLAND not just Louise caldera where they are currently mining!Who really need more than 42 million ounces of gold to start profitable mining operations anyhow? And even if you have more resource, deeeeeeeeep or otherwise, HOW MUCH IS IT GONNA' COST YOU TO GET IT OUT AND TO MARKET? At FULL CAPACITY LIHIR will be mining 1.2 million ounces of gold a year at a cash cost of $225 ounce. AT that rate they can mine LIHIR for the next 35 years! Long before then, as they plan on spending over a million dollars a year exploring the island, they may prove up over 100 million ounces more! Who knows? And who really cares? The mine is operating AHEAD OF SCHEDULE NOW! AND PROFITS ARE NOW POURING DOWN TO THE BOTTOM LINE! LIHIR IS HERE! AND NOW! AND ANYBODY WHO LIKES ASSURED LOW COST AND ABUNDANT SUPPLIES OF GOLD WILL LOVE LIHIR! It trades in Australia in Aussie dollars and in the US as an ADR in US dollars ( US ADR =20 Aussie shares ) .
One last point. It appears to me that Herr Disney is comparing apples and oranges when he fails to distinguish the price of Lihir is denominated in Aussie dollars while the price of HGCMY is denominated in US dollars ( if he's talkin' about the ADR ) or in SA RANDS if he's talkin' local listing.
I'm merely statin' the case for LIHIR as Disney has done for Harmony! There are other considerations in the area of politics, labor and currency. But I'll leave those for another post!
Finally, I'd like to thank Herr Disney for at least looking into LIHIR even if he'd personally never buy a share. And yes, it is a beautiful island! For some, A GOLDEN ONE!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:46
Donald__A (@EB and other XAU trashers) ID#26793: - You folks are to early to be shorting or selling the XAU. I spent the weekend going over all the numbers for the past 15 years. Posted something Saturday you may have missed. I would start to get a little jumpy with the XAU/Spot Ratio at .300, very jumpy at .307 and I absolutely would be out ( or short ) at .320.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:41
Delphi (JTF, 11:51) ID#258129: - 1. To my knowledge, French, Dutch and Belgian central banks provide united monetary policy. Some time ago I saw a interview of Alfons Verplaetse, confirming this fact.
2. Probably, something is wrong with my English again. At present time the head of BIS is Belgian. Before him the head of BIS was Dutch - Duisenberg.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:38
Donald__A (@EJ) ID#26793: - We are indeed at the peak of the debt cycle in much of the world. Certainly in Asia that is the case. I expect it to resolve in deflation for several years followed by inflation.
I mean deflation in prices of those things usually purchased with credit.; cars, homes, businesses etc. Necessities could well inflate or at least take a greater percentage of reduced income. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:37
tolerant1 (part of the rub with the US government everywhere on the globe) ID#31868: - is their insisting that US law rules. Obviously the Swiss and others feel this is rediculous and they are spanking the little boys and girls in the White House, State Department, etc.
Fu_k Me, oh no, Fu_k you!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:31
robnoel__A (US..don't mess with the Swiss.....trial attorneys are once again to blame attempting) ID#410198: - to vilify,the Swiss,did the same to tobacco co.soon to gun manufactures,its the same pattern some in government used to justify attacking Waco,conservatives,folks of faith,South Africa,the list goes on the differance with the Swiss,unlike the above, they own the gold they make the rules they care less about this silly game politicians,and trial attorneys use in the US, any bets the bluff has been called.....these spinless wimps will back down....the Swiss can and will destroy the US Dollar if this mindless game of vilifacation and PC continues
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:27
JTF (Humor point made!) ID#57232: - SDRer: My only thought is that those international lawyers will probably be the most cautious about getting their money's worth for themselves or their clients, given the diversity of currencies -- some stable, some unstable -- in Europe. Probably true even if we don't have any hard evidence to back it up.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:22
chas (Midwesterner re Fontaine) ID#342282: - I'm back. Call any time. Thanx
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:21
A.Goose (just to get the juices flowing - others please fill in where I err) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:53
Spud Master ( @A.Goose ) ID#273112:
Good point Spud Master. I have wonder ( obviously ) a lot about that. Why? Why? Why?
Of course, I can't say for sure, but here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
1. Spin is everything and until recently NO one realized that eligible stocks had fallen so low. Gold has been a lost child for quite a long time and those working in the gold area ( as pointed out by SDRer ) have been keeping all their movements undercover.
2. Spin is everything and the USG and its cronies have been selling the tale that paper assets are the only way to fly. Hard assets have been driven down hard. Part and parcel to that effort has been the declining supply levels. Silver is probably the best example of massive supplies dropping over years of neglect.
3. Currency problems have been evolving over many years and apparently are finally coming to critical mass. Asia's recent problems and Japan's continuing difficulties. Not only does these problems shake people's confidence in fiat currency but also the governments that have been negatively impacted by the usdollar and its manipulation.
4. Currency problems and concerns have driven past enemies together in pursuit of a solution - the Euro with apparently 25% or more gold backing.
5. Islam ( maybe because of complaints about the oil payment problems - currency issues ) have embarked on issuing a gold backed currency.
It seems to me that many powers of the world have been working this currency issue for longer than most of us realize. They needed to position themselves in silence. They also realize JUST how critical it is to the world to have a smooth transition. When the usdollar is declared dead on arrival, they want business to continue on with as little disruption as possible.
I believe we are extremely close to that time ( the usdollar is sick beyond our widest fears ) . And as such the behavior of pm's ( and gold bullion in particular ) have not been normal.
If indeed, we are at the final scene of the final act on the final day, the show window stocks of bullion on view to the public at comex and lbme will soon be removed from view.
IMHO
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:17
Crystal Ball (@ Éß$©) ID#287367: - I'd have bought ABX puts if we had seen opening strength in gold this morning. Alas, gold and the XAU have been puny so far today. ABX looks good for a short term bounce from 22 to per'aps 22 5/8. Don't want to buy my train ticket prematurely. Wink ;- )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:13
Myrmidon (Tete du Fromage - take a good look at your LIHIR) ID#345176: -
LORD DISNEY posted at 03:33 some good info on LIHIR.
Take a good look and reconsider about SA golds.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:07
JTF (COMEX Shell game -- CB's use 'paper gold' certificates, why not COMEX?) ID#57232: - A question to COMEX gurus. What if actual gold/silver trades were all done with paper gold and silver certificates, and the physical gold/silver were just for show? You would not need very much physical if you did not use it.
How long could a game like this be perpetuated, and who checks up on these guys to make sure that the rules are followed?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:05
SDRer__A (JTF--My pathetic attempt at humor!--I've no idea what currency the lawyers) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - accept [only that they expect A LOT of IT {:- ) ]--my reference
rather to the fact that GF is used as the STANDARD of
payment measurement...
AND THE GOLD FRANC IS A SPECIFIC AMOUNT/WEIGHT OF GOLD OF
A SPECIFIC FINENESS...i.e. a standard of measurement...
and, as mentioned to Silverbaron, differing amounts of GF are to
be ascribed to the SDR in the conversion process...thus far
it has ranged between three GF= 1SDR to Silverbaron's figure.
My point is THAT IT EXISTS...THAT IT IS ROUTINELY UTILIZED...that it
is NOT the dollar...
THAT IT IS ********G O L D!********* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:03
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (HERR SUSPICIOUS) ID#431263: - If we truly are entering a major bear phase in the equity arena ( and I believe we are ) you will NOT want to sell BEARX! BEARX will IMHO bring you as good as, if not BETTER return than gold mining stocks over the long 5 wave decline I expect to see before it's all over! It will also serve as a hedge against any panic sell-off in an equity-associated gold stock decline! Once again the time to be LONG GOLD AND GOLD MINING STOCKS and SHORT US EQUITIES IS NOW! BUY AND HOLD GOLD! SELL AND SAY GOOD-BYE TO EQUITIES! If'n you want to be on board the NEXT MAJOR TRENDS!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 12:01
EB (btw) ID#22956: - Yo Spuds! Good on ya mate. Funny potato ( e ) you are. uh huh.
away...to enjoy this....this Kitco
Éß
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:57
SDRer__A (Silverbaron--sorry about the url--will repost this afternoon when I get back...) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Until then, take a look at this. The point is, these agreements use
the GF as a STANDARD OF MEASUREMENT; in one instance, the conversion
to SDR was at the rate of 3.XX GF.
This says to moi, that GOLD is being USED as a MONETARY STANDARD
where it COUNTS! I will get my notes cleaned up and repost it
all in a neater, tighter more compelling form. {:- ) )
http://ra.irv.uit.no/trade_law/doc/IMO.Civil.Liability.Oil.Pollution.Damage.Protocol.1992.html - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:57
EB (what's the big deal?) ID#22956: - The charts were SCREAMING attack. It's ALL in the charts.....all of it. ....eventually ;- ) ( $ ) . The shorts are NOT finished with POG yet either.......this week will end with a good buy opp for those so inclined to pick up gold for less duckies...uh huh.
Hey Crystall Ball ( s ) .....you have B@ll ( s ) of gold dude......make it so. Sell that XAU......go man go!! you have wood in the pile.... ( ding-ding ) .
away...to work..... ( oh cheer ) .
Éß$©
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:55
Myrmidon (@ all on Y2K - article from Silicon Investor) ID#345176:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
LONDON: The millennium time bomb feared by scientists to
wreck havoc as the world switches over to the year 2000 may
have already detonated, with a rash of cases being reported
daily in the United Kingdom.
Some of Britain's major companies including Shell,
supermarket chain Tesco, TSB Bank and Rover Motor Car Company
have reportedly been hit by the bug that stops computers
recognising the year 2000.
Experts are warning that hundreds of companies worldwide may
be facing similar crises, but may be keeping a lid on them.
The first warnings of what a millennium time bomb may have in
store have come out with the Rover car factory refusing to
issue warranties for vehicles beyond the millennium as the
company's main computer refused to acknowledge the
switchover.
Similarly, Tesco refused to accept goods from a supplier
because the computer thought the 2000 expiry date meant it
was old stock.
''Hundreds of companies are discovering that their software
is unable to cope with orders in the next century,'' media
reports said, adding that even senior executives of major
British banks were saying that they would withdraw all their
savings before the switchover as banks and other financial
institutions would be the worst-hit.
Times quoted a prominent computer consultant as saying that a
lot of companies were now updating their systems because
things were going wrong. ''Everyone thinks this will be just
a problem to strike at the midnight of December 31, 1999, but
it is already here,'' he said.
Computer experts had started warning about the millennium bug
in 1990, but it is only in recent months that the world
appears to be waking up to the danger the time bomb may
wreck.
Political and business leaders have only now started to admit
the scale of the problem which, experts say, should cost
anything upto $ 500 billion for rectification.
The problems are arising as most of the computers are
treating the year 2000 as 1900, or shutting down the system
completely when a switchover is referred.
Experts say a 2000 shutdown could cause a worldwide disaster,
with patients dying in hospitals as equipment fails, power
cuts leading to a stock market collapse and
telecommunications chaos.
British prime minister Tony Blair last week chaired a
high-level meeting of over 2,000 experts and business leaders
to bring them alive to the mayhem that may strike.
Tesco spokeswomen Karen Marshall said, ''We only realised we
had a problem, when we had some canned food delivered with an
expiry date for 2000. The computer wanted to send it back to
the supplier because it thought it had been packed at the end
of the last century and so well may have been out of date. We
now have a major problem to make sure all our systems cope
with the changeover.''
TSB Bank officials were hit when they tried to work out five-
year forecasts. ''The computer thought it was looking at a
95-year plan, from 1900 to 1995, rather than a five-year plan
to 2000,'' a top TSB executive was quoted as saying.
At Shell, media reports said exploration and production
computers that kept servicing records of onshore and offshore
rigs would not accept the year 2000, when it was input as
future servicing date.
Four major British banks--Barclays, Midland, Natwest and
Lloyds, and TSB have earmarked over a billion pounds for
finding a solution, while the government plans to spend 97
million pounds to help fight it.
Meanwhile, consumers are also suffering rejection of some
credit cards with expiry dates after 2000, from cashpoints,
petrol stations and shops.
Leading credit card companies, including American Express,
have delayed issuing cards for the new millennium, while they
eliminate the bug. ( PTI )
End of article.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:53
Spud Master (@A.Goose) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Goose,
What troubles me here re. the COMEX vulnerability is the OBVIOUSNESS of it.
As you point out, someone with chicken-feed ( $45 million US ) could cause pure, holy-hell chaos on the COMEX by purchasing and taking delivery. The shorts would be fried alive.
But it hasn't happened. Why?
When very obvious things don't happen, then there is usually a very good, hidden reason.
Can anyone here speculate?
I might offer that the COMEX/NYMEX boyz would just change the exchange rules as they saw fit ala the burn perpetuated against the Hunts during their attempt to corner silver ( isn't it funny, if you attempt to positively control something ( buying up all the silver ) it's derogratively called cornering the market. But if you do the opposite, negatively cornering the market ala the shorts, no one says a word ) .
I would appreciate some comments, otherwise I'm taking my mailbox full of credit card offers, hitting the ATM machine for $45 million and buying the COMEX.
Sprudring - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:52
ForkLift__A (Carl 10:38) ID#324266: - If the euro were to be realistically backed by gold it would be a brilliant move that would crush the dollar and replace it as the premier currency, but I don't think that the eurocrats are daring enough to do it.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:51
JTF (I stand corrected!, International lawyers paid in Gold Franks? How about BC's lawyers?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Delphi: Thanks for the correction. What do you think about the Belgian connection between BIS and the new EURO central bank, even if the Belgian candidate for the EURO CB is not the current Chairman of the BIS?
SDRer: If I understant correctly, those international lawyers are very smart to get paid in an incorruptible currency. Fiat currencies inflate too much -- so why not write every agreement in reference to being paid in gold? Then you do not need to rewrite international agreements every few years.
I wonder -- what would happen if a the average US citizen demanded payment in kind? Just what currency does BC use to pay his army of lawyers? Last I heard the American taxpayer was paying for about 1/2 of them. I would guess that Robert Bennett will stick around only as long as he is getting appropriate weekly or monthly payments from BC -- at $500/hour or so. Just who is spending more money on lawayers? BC of Kenneth Starr?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:50
rhody (@Aragorn III I also noticed the pattern of a short attack hitting both gold and silver on the COMEX) ID#408236:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - We could use this information to determine the identity of the shorts, but the question is, would that information do us any good? I think these people are perpetrating a misinformation campaign against pm's
and it might be valuable to know who they are in order to sort out the
real news breaks from blatant lies issued by these people. Recall the latest stories about Buffett silver sales, and the nonesense about the
ECB holding just 5% of its reserves in the form of gold. I would think a EURO backed by 25% gold would terrify the US Treasury and horrify the boys on Wall Street. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:49
ALBERICH__A (@EJ (10:34) US$ - Gold - Inflation - Deflation) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - EJ:
Your thought about how the gold-US dollar price relation will work under certain conditions are very interesting and complicated.
I found it helpful to take apart the CPI ( consumer price index ) measured inflation and the investment market inflation. The investment market inflation, lead by the stock market, is the inflation leader right now.
The CPI inflation is hard to estimate because defacto it is kept low by artificially low imports from Asia, by artificially low oil prices and in general, by an artificially high US$ currency value, relative to all European and Asian currencies. Partially, this high US$ value was caused by European money scared by the EURO insecurity last year. This European money influenced directly the financial markets in US and contributed to high stock prices and, over the detour of a higher US$ value, to low import prices for the consumer markets ( i.e., a high dollar buys cheap imports! ) . This is probably the major reason why higher wages remain right now price neutral within USA.
None of these reasons influences the gold price yet, IMHO. I think the present gold price strength is only due to the fact that the CB activities to deliberately depress the gold price have stopped.
On the global financial markets also contributes to a high dollar the fact that Japan holds $293 billion T-bills/Notes and U.K. holds $300 billion, probably followed by China with $150 billion and others, like Germany with $90 billion.
When one of the above preconditions changes, everything can change. It is an extremely fragile situation.
By the way, I forgot to mention the M3 expansion worldwide, including in USA. It is not predictable, that a burst of the stock bubble would necessarily set off a phase of deflation on the CPI measured consumer markets. The opposite could happen as well. I see both markets acting extremely differently in their own dynamics. Of course they influence each other, but do they necessarily go parallell when the stock bubble bursts? It can be that this causes a run to get as much as possible for your dollars left, which means inflation, loss of confidence, in other markets.
I don't count on a pure period of inflation and not on a pure period of deflation in the future. I count on a complete mess ( i.e, that's what I'm afraid of ) . I'm afraid that this mess might become so terrible that the certainly raising gold prices will not comfort us adequately.
What I'm now waiting for, as an additional possible damage control strategy, is the EURO stability which in my simplistic world view means: how high will it be backed by gold and will this percentage be convincing, i.e., confidence inspiring. This could give the financial markets worldwide more stability.
In my own opinion, all these unpredictable parameter changes offer only one common denominator for relative safety: physical gold. I'm sure we all agree on this one. But there is more to it!
I ordered my first RCM Mountie at Kitco and guess what: one day later I received an e-mail from Rosalina di Gregario. What a beautiful Italian name! What a melodie! To learn about this name alone was worth the purchase! I told my wife about it and we both started dreaming about the wonderful times we spent in the Toscana, in Venecia.....
Alberich the Dwarf - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:47
HopeFull (Gold In A S&P Bear Market) ID#404189: - Stock market bears are slowww and stealthy, not fast and sharp. In a classic S&P bear market, slow erosion in stocks in general will perhaps be accompanied by a slow acretion of gold and gold stock values.
Bear markets are an erosion of paper assets, generally caused by too good of a world economic environment. As it appears Japan, China, India, Europe and the U.S. will start hitting on all 8 cylinders at once in coming months economically, this is a very real scenario.
HB - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:46
A.Goose (Just look how eligible stocks have changed since early march.) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Remember that early march is when pressure was placed on the comex stocks. A jump occured in eligible gold on March 7. We are now below that level and heading back to the march 6th levels. A similiar situation occured in the silver stocks, and again we have moved below those levels ( but even more poitive ) .
Looking at the eligible stock levels, it seems that comex is closer to running out of eligible stocks than they were one month ago. In a paper gold/silver market that might not matter much, BUT in a real hold it in your hands bullion market IT IS CRITICAL.
IMHO
March 6-FWN--THE FOLLOWING ARE THE COMEX GOLD
warehouse stocks:
GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
TOTAL REGISTERED
345,828 0 0 0 100 345,928
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
134,986 0 0 0 -100 134,886
COMBINED TOTAL
480,814 0 0 0 0 480,814
Silver
TOTAL REGISTERED
0 0 36,312,991
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
-682,060 0 52,706,304
COMBINED TOTAL
-682,060 0 89,019,295
Date: Mon Mar 09 1998
Gold
TOTAL REGISTERED
345,928 0 1,382 -1,382 -21,830 322,716
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
134,886 0 426 -426 21,830 156,290
COMBINED TOTAL
480,814 0 1,808 -1,808 0 479,006
Silver
TOTAL REGISTERED
0 -153 36,312,838
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
1,778,012 153 54,484,469
COMBINED TOTAL
1,778,012 0 90,797,307
April 7, 1998
Silver
TOTAL REGISTERED
172,041 0 33,820,925
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
-574,181 0 53,182,905
COMBINED TOTAL
-402,140 0 87,003,830
Gold
TOTAL REGISTERED
475,361 0 203 -203 0 475,158
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
148,278 0 5,207 -5,207 0 143,071
COMBINED TOTAL
623,639 0 5,410 -5,410 0 618,229
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:37
Delphi (@JTF, 10:17 - about post of the president of ECB) ID#258129: - JTF, You understood me wrongly. What I posted before is that Wim Duisenberg, former President of Dutch CB, also used to work as a President and Chairman of the Board of Directors of BIS. Alfons Verplaetse succeeded Duisenberg at this post [in BIS] from July 1, 1997. Now candidate #1 for the chair in ECB is Duisenberg, and if he will be appointed, it will really be very bullish for Gold - IMHO
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:33
chas (Donald re Big MAG wave) ID#342282: - Could be Solar effect or big slippage on fault line. If it was a fault slip, there could be a MAJOR quake. I've done a lot of work on faults but not enough equipment to verify. Slippages cause emission of emf's which are easily detectable with the right equipment, both ground based and airborne ( hanging above ground-not aircraft borne ) . If you catch any more on this Chinese phenomena, please let me know, thanx
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:32
EB (currencies(foreign)...(non-US$).) ID#22956: - AWAY!!!
Éßdigginit!
go plat. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:31
Silverbaron (SDRer @ gold franc/ BIS) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
The authorized share capital of the BIS amounts, at present, to 1,500 million gold francs, equivalent to 435,483,870.96 grams of fine gold. This capital is divided into 600,000 shares of equal nominal gold value, of which 517,125 shares, paid up to the extent of one quarter, have been issued. About 86 percent of these shares are owned by central banks and the remaining 14 percent by private individuals. Voting rights are completely independent of the ownership of shares and may only be exercised by the central bank of each country or its nominee in proportion to the number of shares issued in that country.
As of March 31, 1997, the balance-sheet total, with gold valued at 0.29 grams fine gold = US$l.94 and all currencies converted into dollars at market rates, stood at US$135.6 billion. Applying the same valuation methods, the BIS' own funds amounted to US$5.5 billion.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:27
Leland (USAgold Daily Comments) ID#316193: -
http://www.usagold.com/Daily%20Quotes - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:21
Silverbaron (SDRer) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
Is this the same content as your previous post? ( I could not make your link work )
P.C. 1983-19 13 January, 1983
His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Finance, pursuant to section 13.1 of the Currency and Exchange Act, is pleased hereby to make the annexed Regulations respecting conversion of values expressed in gold francs into Canadian dollar equivalents for purposes of subsection 2 ( 6 ) of the Carriage by Air Act.
REGULATIONS RESPECTING CONVERSION OF VALUES EXPRESSED IN GOLD FRANCS INTO CANADIAN DOLLAR EQUIVALENTS FOR PURPOSES OF SUBSECTION 2 ( 6 ) OF THE CARRIAGE BY AIR ACT
INTERPRETATION
2
2. In these Regulations,
gold francs means the francs referred to in subsection 2 ( 6 ) of the Carriage by Air Act;
S.D.R. means the special drawing rights issued by the International Monetary Fund.
GENERAL
3
3. For the purposes of subsection 2 ( 6 ) of the Carriage by Air Act, the equivalent dollar value of gold francs shall be determined as follows:
( a ) gold francs shall be converted into S.D.R.'s at the exchange rate of 15.075 gold francs per S.D.R.; and
( b ) S.D.R.'s shall be converted into Canadian dollars at the exchange rate established by the International Monetary Fund for S.D.R.'s and Canadian dollars. SOR/86-647, s. 1 ( F ) .
Redemption of Subsidiary Coin Regulations
C.R.C., c. 450 No amendments since the Consolidation of 1978
CURRENCY ACT
Redemption of Subsidiary Coin Regulations
( C.R.C., c. 450 )
REGULATIONS RESPECTING THE REDEMPTION OF SUBSIDIARY COIN
SHORT TITLE - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:20
Skylark (The Danger is Being Out) ID#93130:
Copyright © 1998 Skylark/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - MIKE STEWART, CC: Agree completly with your opinions. Leading gold stocks have broken above significant resistance and many Juniors have sprung to life. And upward moves have been on significant volume. Everything I see IMO speaks of higher prices in the weeks and months ahead. But I agree, like a beginning countermove in most bear markets, there is expected to be high volitility at the bottoms as investors are bullish one day and bearish the next with uncertainty. Amusingly, I find this investor psychology in the Kitco posts. Not too long ago, most were bullish on any move upward in the gold price and discounted any correction as being insignificant. Now most appear ready to sell any rally. And some are selling stocks that are the strongest such as Harmony and the like, rather than the weakest which they should be selling. The stocks that will make the largest moves are typically leaders at the beginning of the move. I agree, the danger is being out of the market as strong upward moves may come unexpected and the movement may already be in the market when it opens the next day. Thus, there is a great danger of missing big moves and suffering losses by being whip-sawed. It seems easy to consider buying on the sell-off and selling the rallies. But of course, how does one know if in selling the rallies, one is missing out on a continued higher move. There are times to take positions in gold stocks, and IMO this is the time. The market has changed tone, there are present compelling conditions which favor a reversal, and the stocks are acting as if they are predicting higher prices. And, for safety purposes, there is a clear base pattern established in many of the contenders which provides a technical stop point. The risk v reward is excellent and IMO there is greater risk of being out of the market than in.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:17
SDRer__A (A. Goose--re: Swiss and Erdman) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Erdman has good reason to dislike, distrust, dishonor
the Swiss. The caveat is to consider news dispatches with
this in mind.
This is--to my mind--part of the distraction process, harking back to the Safehaven and Twister programs about which we spoke.
The round-eyed magician is working VERY hard to ( 1 ) direct our
attention away from the center of real action and
( 2 ) provide possible scapegoats if it all falls apart. One gathers
that their first choice was Japan, followed closely by the prudent
Swiss. Walk the Circle on EVERY news story. {:- ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:14
CC (Gold up --> Stocks Up) ID#334219: - You can bet that if gold goes up, gold stocks will do same, crash or no crash. They are so much undervalued now that there is no way they can get more if the precious metals move against the trend of global equities. SOme are worries about margin calls forcing the sell of gold stocks. Well It seems to me that very few of those long and on margin in US Equities are bullish on golg, therefore very few own gold equities. Gold stocks are in hands of gold funds and goldbugs...IOW, participants that are waiting for a crash and gold to rise... They won't sell.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:14
Aragorn III (10:00 punishment in New York daily) ID#212323: - All--Look at the 3-day 24 hour spot POG chart on Kitco. What factor is responsible for the DAILY price drop at 10:00 in NY?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:08
SDRer__A (JTF--Good morning! re:ECB Chief....) ID#288157: -
One suspects that Tietmeyer will have a decisive say! Re: Gold Franc--one is frankly surprised to see how ubiquitous it is.
All--You will note how often, in these dry legal tracts, the EXACT amount and degree of fineness of GOLD is carefully set down.
One gains the impression that the MONETARY USE of GOLD has INCREASED !!!!
{:- ) ) ) )
BBL
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 11:05
A.Goose (General reminer ...) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - eligibile gold and silver comex stocks were down again yesterday AND:
there are enough contracts schedule for delivery in April to wipe out comex's eligible gold stocks - TWICE OVER!!!
( if those folks decide to take delivery there will be fireworks )
-- -- -- -- TOTAL DELIVERY NOTICES -- -- --
-- -- -- -- HI-GRADE SILVER GOLD
ISSUED TODAY 225 1 198
SO FAR FOR April 3,858 43 3,943
New York-April 7-FWN--COMEX ESTIMATED VOLUMES
TOTAL ESTIMATED VOLUMES
Gold 26,000
Silver 13,000
H.G. Copper 10,000
Silver
TOTAL REGISTERED
172,041 0 33,820,925
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
-574,181 0 53,182,905
COMBINED TOTAL
-402,140 0 87,003,830
Gold
TOTAL REGISTERED
475,361 0 203 -203 0 475,158
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
148,278 0 5,207 -5,207 0 143,071
COMBINED TOTAL
623,639 0 5,410 -5,410 0 618,229
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:59
A.Goose () ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:30
Leland ( Paul Erdman Warns of Swiss Plot Against US Dollar and Treasuries ) ID#316193:
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/erdman.htx?source=htx/http2_mw
Quite a post Leland. Forgive me for posting excerpts,but it looks important to me.
Seemingly unclear is last sentence in the Swiss National Bank's statement. But there can be no doubt that what was meant is that ( unless a political settlement of this matter is reached ) Switzerland will change its current policy of maintaining its foreign exchange reserves in U.S. dollars.
At the end of 1997, 79 percent of Switzerland's currency reserves equalling 53.3 billion Swiss francs were in U.S. dollars, and over half of this was invested in U.S. Treasurys.
In other words, the Swiss government would dump its dollars and its U.S. Treasurys and transfer the proceeds into DM and German Treasurys, hoping that the rest of Europe will follow suit. This would cause chaos in currency markets, precipitate a plunge in bond prices, leading to sharp increases in our interest rates. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:53
SDRer__A (W H A T is a RESERVE CURRENCY? One that is used internationally? Well then....) ID#288157: - Carriage by Air Act Gold Franc Conversion Regulations SOR/83-79 No amendments since 1986/06/25
Registration 14 January, 1983 CURRENCY ACT Carriage by Air Act Gold Franc Conversion Regulations ( SOR/83-79 ) P.C. 1983-19 13 January, 1983 His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of.
http://founder.library.ualbert...P/EN/Regs/Chap/C/C-52/SOR83-79 ( Excite ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:52
MoReGoLd (@AU) ID#348129: - Gold under attack again by the Comex shorts, same as yesterday morning.
They surely will not give up without a fight..... - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:46
SDRer__A (Carl--Take a look at some of these international agreements, conventions, etc.) ID#288157: - The Gold Franc looks like the OIL CURRENCY--
Things I have not yet posted--
e.g. JAL [Japan Air Lines] Postal Gold Franc unhappily these is the only bit in English, so I have some work to do here...
Lists of companies using SDR/Gold Franc when speaking of
international settlements...one can argue with conviction, that is a DEFACTO RESERVE CURRENCY!
Don't be away too long! {:- ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:44
EJ (@missinglink, Donald, EB, Gaston2) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - missinglink, no insult intended on the gold builds nothing comment; it does not preclude the fact that beautiful things are made from gold. I like your gold/jewelry/sex connection. Taken to it's logical conclution, sex drives the price of gold and, tautologically, gold the price of sex. I'll try dropping a couple of Eagles down my wife's shorts this evening and see if you're right. Don't sorry. I'll warm them up first.
Donald, so the question is, what will happen to the dollar value of gold during deflation, which I too expect, and then the inflation that will follow? The issue is complicated by other factors, because around the same time that this deflation is taking place, the dollar will be under assault by the Euro as a reserve currency. Gold value in dollar terms is likely to increase for that reason, while deflation pushes the price down.
EB, no thanks on the lottery. I never play, figure I have about the same chance of winning whether I play or not. I forget who said it, but I agree that the lottery was invented by the government as a tax on people who are bad at math.
Gaston2, you make the #1 case for buying gold: low downside. Getting into the stock market today may be still be lucrative if it goes to 10,000, but it's risk--high downside. Getting out of the stock market and into gold is a safe gamble in my book.
Thx.
-EJ
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:41
SDRer__A (9 out of 10 International Lawyers Chose the SDR or Gold Franc-- DOLLAR? what dollar?) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
Protocol Of 1992 To Amend The International Convention On Civil Liability For Oil Pollution Damage 1969
http://ra.irv.uit.no/trade_law/doc/IMO.Civil.Liability.Oil.Pollution.Damage.Protocol.1992.html
9 ( b ) . Nevertheless, a Contracting State which is not a member of the International Monetary Fund and whose law does not permit the application of the provisions of paragraph 9 ( a ) may, at the time of ratification, acceptance, approval of or accession to this Convention or at any time thereafter, declare that the unit of account referred to in paragraph 9 ( a ) shall be equal to 15 gold francs.
The gold franc referred to in this paragraph corresponds to sixty-five and a half milligrammes of gold of millesimal fineness nine hundred. The conversion of the gold franc into the national currency shall be made according to the law of the State concerned.
THEY CERTAINLY USE THE barbaric relic IN INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS {:- ) ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:38
Carl (Just in case it should happen?) ID#341189: - I have to leave for a while, but I must throw out a question: What if the euro does in fact make a serious bid to become the oil currency by actually backing with gold ( as opposed to just holding gold as part of their reserves ) . Wild? Well anyway, what would be the fallout for US stocks and bonds, China, Japan, world trade? bbl
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:38
John Disney__A (running out of momentum....) ID#24135: - for Rob
You got that right. I think they
are gonna try to knock it down. if
they knock silver too we could see
some nasty action .. like 6 and 285.
I would hate that. Fortunate $
is tending weak .. A stong $ now
and its a mess. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:37
A.Goose () ID#256250: -
Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Apr 08, 1998 @ 10:27 am ET
GC M8 June Gold 3113 -7 -0.2 3125 3110 33.6K
SI K8 May Silver 6400 +23 +0.4 6485 6365 10.5K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 7875 +105 +1.4 7890 7750 5.56K
PL N8 July Platinum 4140 +15 +0.4 4160 4140 876
PA M8 June Palladium 26500 +580 +2.2 26600 26300 437 - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:35
JTF (Comments about the safety of Gold equities during a market crash) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I differ from fellow August Kitcoites that believe that gold stocks would survive untarnished from a catastrophic meltdown of the equity markets.
While I agree that the drop in undervalued gold equities will be less than the drop in overvalued conventional equities if we have a market meltdown, I doubt that any of you will want to get caught in the margin call suction.
In fact, as we have seen in SEAsia, even gold bullion may go down in price during a market crash -- unless you happen to be in the country where the crash occurred.
The US markets are still the strongest in the world, and still have room to go up, IMHO.
Just as in 1929, I think the US markets will be last to collapse, after they have been propped up by assets fleeing other markets. Just what do you think will happen if the Japanese Yen offers 0% interest?
I don't have a clue when the US markets will melt down, but probably not this year. By the way -- I just got an add from a loan firm that wants to give me a 50% loan on my house, since the first loan is about 50% paid up. That would put total loan equity at 100%. Just wait till those 125% California equity loans become common practice, and there will be no equity cushion left! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:34
Suspicious (Gaston2 / Market situation and Gold !) ID#285121: - With many of the world's equities markets at unreasonable heights any of several countries have the potential for a crash. Our market could easily crash under it's own weight but only needs one significant piece of bad news to start the tumble. With Slick's problems, Asian deflation,
the euro dollar, trouble in the mid-east, and Y2K, Dec. 99 index puts are the surest leveraged bet I've ever seen. I doubt seriously our market will survive second quarter profit announcements much less the third quarter.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:30
Leland (Paul Erdman Warns of Swiss Plot Against US Dollar and Treasuries) ID#316193: -
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/current/erdman.htx?source=htx/http2_mw - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:17
Rob (gold & the shorts) ID#410114: - It seems that the shorts sell heavy at resistance levels. $317 was such a level. There is another at $333. If $317 gets taken out there will be a short squeeze up to $333 where the shorts will reenter their short postions.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:17
JTF (Addendum to my post about the BIS/Gold franks) ID#57232: - SDRer, All: According to Winston's post at 03:04 4/8/98, the Chaiman if the BIS is Alfons Verplatse. I believe that is the same individual that Delphi thinks will be nominated as the Chairman of the new EURO central bank.
If the above is correct, what could be more bullish for gold than that news?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:16
Gaston2 ((Suspicious (Vronsky / Gold stocks and the Crash !)) ID#371237:
Copyright © 1998 Gaston2/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Vronsky: I fully agree with you... We are living in a different time. Gold stocks have very little downside risk at this point. History has less value these days... we are in uncharted territory regarding this bull market. I agree with Suspicious, though, that a real panic sell will make gold stocks drop some ( but not much ) because mutual Index funds are so huge these days and therefore will HAVE to sell some of each of their holdings, including gold stocks ( seniors ) ... and these funds hold some gold mines big time.
Regarding market crash: we are not here yet. For the following reasons: in the US market, there is not enough exuberance, Gold stocks have not climbed enough, not enough fear in the market, no bank failures in the US ( on the contrary ) , no deflation and no inflation, unemployement still very low.... and foreign money coming in the US market... Market correction is coming, yes..... but not that close, IMHO.
Volatility is starting big time this week... NOT a market crash... ( just IMHO )
Good luck to all - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:15
Mike Stewart (Technical Update) ID#270253:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Stewart/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I have been out of the loop for a couple of days migrating my box to Win95 from os/2. Added new hardware too. Nothing to it as Win95 is simple relative to os/2.
The Toronto Mining Index Summation index is rising with conviction. A peak over +2000 is what we are after in the Late May timeframe. This will confirm a new bull phase that will last.
Toronto mining new lows are at very low levels. Good.
We are early in a strong gold market. Some of you may not have experienced the volatility that comes with this. One minute you want to sell, and the next minute you want to buy it back. My experience has been that it better to hold during periods like this. Ignore the daily moves. I like to use weekly or monthly charts to determine price targets or stop loss levels.
General market: McClellan Summation Index is headed south. We should see 8 weeks down, some fear at the bottom amd then a final rebound back to 9000. This should be a failing rally into a bear. We must wait and see before passing final judgement. The market will tell us, not the other way around. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:12
Fred(@Vienna)__A (You dont have to go miles for a conspiracy - ask your local paranoic!) ID#185448: - JTF:
As far as I remember, Verplaetse is head of the Belgian CB - if reported correctly, he is also head of BIS. ( !! )
I rather bet my a++ that head of ECB will be french or maybe from luxembourg ( in case of a german veto ) . - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:11
EB (¿Tickets anyone?) ID#22956:
- - The way I figure it....I have just as much chance at winning this thing as gold has of getting to $30,000oz. Perhaps better.
http://www.calottery.com/announce_frame.html
Anyone care for a ticket Email the money ;- ) and I will buy you one.
I don't usually play until we get some HUGE numbers going. I figure I'll throw five bucks into this Giant. It's good for the schools, right? Anyone have any lucky numbers for me thx in advance.
away...to figure out how to spend my winnings
Éßluckytoday ( ? ) ...yeahright.
go plat.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:11
themissinglink (EJ) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 themissinglink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Gold builds nothing? As a goldsmith I snicker at that. There may be some speculators here but jewelry demand is the engine for the gold train. Far from a hoarding game, jewelry is the engine which drives all other markets. You think people naturally want to work? No, as Freud would say, sex drives all. Jewelry is a good way to get sex. Working is a good way to get jewelry. Corporate profits come from alot of people working to buy jewelry to get sex.
btw, I bought in to gold as it breached $300 as an investment. I am not waiting for a depression to profit from my investment. I do see a depression in our future though. I will not take responsibility for it because of buying gold either.
Steve
http://www.familyjeweler.com - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:10
Donald__A (@EJ) ID#26793: - We are indeed at the peak of the debt cycle in much of the world. Certainly in Asia that is the case. I expect it to resolve in deflation for several years followed by inflation.
I mean deflation in prices of those things usually purchased with credit.; cars, homes, businesses etc. Necessities could well inflate or at least take a greater percentage of reduced income. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:08
vronsky (MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE) ID#427357:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
REf: Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:55
Donald__A ( @Vronsky )
The first and last sentences of your comment are mutually exclusive. In any case I totally agree with the last. It will be a orderly decline
orchestrated by the Fed and ol' Greenie. It's my considered opinion
we will suffer a 1973-1974 type grinding and relentless decline in the general markets, while gold shares out-perform in a stellar fashion as they did in the early 70s.
We must appreciate precious metals stocks as measured by the XAU are down about 50% from their all-time high - to boot gold is still near a 18-year low. And despite Wall Street's carping and ranting to the contrary, CYCLES WILL ALWAYS EXIST... and eventually will reassert their
historic patterns. ERGO, stocks will fall and gold will rise. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:06
John Disney__A (Market here weaker at the close.) ID#24135: - To All
Gold market softer here on the close. For example, Sold half
remaining randfontein in the morning at 12.90 and at the close
the best I could have gotten was 12.40 so I backed off on the
rest. Harmony was still a solid 23.20 bid at the close. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:05
JTF (Gold Franks) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - SDRer: Just a few thoughts about the BIS.
1 ) The BIS is rumored to have bought the Belgian gold, near the time gold bottomed at about $280/oz.
2 ) Gold Franks -- as you noted -- are referenced in shipment transactions -- the BIS currency. So we may be looking at another example of the BIS currency as the currency of last resort. Re: Gold/gold frank shipments if the gold/fiat currency paper system folds.
3 ) The BIS chief ( director ) is a Belgian -- the one that is most likely to be Chairman of the new EURO central bank?
All I can say is that something is up -- and the BIS is right in the middle of it. Discussion of gold as the currency of last resort is not limited to SEAsia, or to the Moslem/Middle East nations. Making the BIS director/chairman the Chairman of the new EURO central bank would go a long way to legitimize the EURO -- at least on day one.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:02
Donald__A (@EJ) ID#26793: - We are indeed at the peak of the debt cycle in much of the world. Certainly in Asia that is the case. I expect it to resolve in deflation for several years followed by inflation.
I mean deflation in prices of those things usually purchased with credit.; cars, homes, businesses etc. Necessities could well inflate or at least take a greater percentage of reduced income. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 10:02
Suspicious (Donald_A / Orderly correction ?) ID#285121: - An orderly correction from such market heights as we have today would defy history.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:55
Donald__A (@Vronsky) ID#26793: - I don't agree that the Fed will not allow a 1987 style meltdown to occur. I think we will have the stocks falling along with bonds and the most important job for the Fed will be bond market protection. They can't handle both and will be forced to ignore stocks. They already think it is too high anyway and would secretly welcome an orderly market correction right now.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:52
Suspicious (Vronsky / Gold stocks and the Crash !) ID#285121: - It is my belief that a panic will not differenciate, ( see XAU chart for 1987 ) . The selling of paper will hit all sectors. For a short period of time, probably a few days, Gold shares will fall with the market even as gold goes up. I'm planning on the sale of BEARX and some put options and moving into more gold shares a few days ( to be determined at the time ) after the first major decline. Comments welcome and wanted.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:46
EJ (Donald: thx for your comments. Do you believe we are at the) ID#45173: - peak of a debt cycle worldwide? If so, how do you think it will be resolved: deflation/default, inflation, or by some other means. Thx.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:41
APH (S&P) ID#254201: - Snowbird - The Snp should have some big swings over the next few weeks before moving up to the 9500 area on the Dow. Today I'd buy the SPM at 1105 area and look for a rally back near the highs before a deeper correction.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:39
JTF (Kaplan's Bullish comments, Kenneth Starr.) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Nick@C, All: I am having a hard time merging Kaplan's strongly bullish comments about gold with bearish comments from Kitcoites who understand gold. Who is right?
Just how long term are the commercial gold longs anyway? Does anyone know?
My intuitive feeling is that gold will continue to rally for some time, but I am a gold bug, so why should I trust my biased judgement? Just to play it safe, I am keeping most of my liquid assets ( 2/3 ) in cash.
By the way, I think we can expect a major announcement from Kenneth Starr fairly soon. He looks like the Chesire Cat. I could be wrong, but there are many xxxgate irons in the fire -- only one needs to be hot.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:39
Donald__A (@EJ) ID#26793: - Back in the early 30's in the U.S. the T-Bill rate got down to .25% ( 1/4 ) Everyone was terrified of banks and kept cash at home. Money flooded into T-Bills at that low rate for safety. Much the same in Switzerland in the late 70's and early 80's when there was a negative interest rate. You had to pay a fee to park your money in a safe Swiss bank.
In each of those two examples the curriencies were percieved to be the safest in the world. If the same were to happen in Japan it would be for the same reason. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:31
APH (Silver Trade) ID#254201: - If you took the short may silver trade ( 4/7 23:59 ) this morning you're short off the opening at 6.43-6.44. If you want to limit risk move the stop down to 6.45. This will give you a risk of $50-$100 per contract with a potential profit of $1,000-$4,000.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:29
Donald__A (Big banks of the world starting to worry about Y2K. Yes, I said starting.) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/banking_gi_1.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:28
BillD (Normally ... if you are nice and ask BART to please) ID#258427: - get the frames to update correctly....HE WILL DO IT, oH..bart...ER
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:23
chas (Midwesterner, Goose and SDRer) ID#342282: - Ken, sorry, thought I had posted to you. Fontaine called, have to go to town be back afternoon.
Goose, thanx I'll be watching. SDRer, you're loading me up, but it's powerful info. Thanx to all Ought to be back by 2pm - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:20
EJ (@Winston, F*, Donald, & Mike Sheller) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Windon, I agree that gold is best viewed as a hedge, not an investment. Hedges cover your ass when things get dicey. A hedge is not an investment. Investments are placed in things that grow over time, either via increase profits in the case of a stock, or accumulated interest in the cased of bonds. Sometimes gold is an investment, as when you expect it to rise in value more than other other potential investments of equivalent risk over the same period.
F*, re your comments about currencies, a question: the theory of efficient markets suggests that dollar selling will happen before the Euro comes on line as currencies are bought that are likely to be converted to Euros at a better rate than dollars. When do you think this will happen? Has it started already?
Donald, one view of the great macro picture of capitalism is that the purpose of periods of high inflation and deflation are to get the debt out of the system that has accumulated over a long period, usually a generation. At the peak of a debt cycle economies begin to slow, and accelerating growth is the only thing that keeps capitalist economies moving; you have to keep growing to cover your past debts, otherwise the debt accumulates and you wind up spending all your capital on interest. The standard move to spur a slowing economy is to drop interest rates to encourage more borrowing to fuel growth. But at the peak of a debt cycle, governments and lenders can't give debt away. Everyone simply has too much debt already. Now the Japanese may drop the discount rate to zero. I wonder if it'll make any difference in a system that already has so much debt. What do you think of this idea?
Mike Sheller, gold is in the market's subconscious. It has been politically incorrect to talk about gold for 10 years while equity markets have appeared to be unstoppable engines of growth. Mutual Fund managers in the US, most of whom who keep less than 5% in cash, were watching Sesame Street the last time gold saw any action. However, they have eyes and can see that the macro indexes for the US economy are the DOW, NASDAQ, S&P 500, Oil, Treasuries, and Gold. For their counterparts in HK, it's the HK$, the Hang Seng Index, and Gold. Etc. They are sheep. They will move when anyone with authority in the market does or says anything even vaguely in support of the notion that the price of gold is measured for a reason, that gold is an entity. Think about this: what if Warren Buffet suddenly announced that he was buying a bunch of gold? I think he'd precipitate a major sell-off in stocks.
Thx.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:19
vronsky (SORRY GUYS) ID#427357: -
Double post unintentional. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:17
Argent (Ted) ID#255217: - Don't tell her Ted; that would ruin everything. Tell her he's from N.Z.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:17
vronsky (I'M NOT SO SURE…) ID#427357:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
REF: Mike Sheller ( Rumplestilskin )
I 'm not so sure that gold stocks will go down during the next general bear market for stocks. I am referring to your statements today that gold stocks will follow the general market down the drain. On the contrary, I believe that gold stocks will INDEED provide one of the only safe harbors for all the money abandoning general stocks, once the bear market reasserts itself. I feel this way because HISTORY tells me this… especially in light of current market conditions related to gold stocks vis-a-vis the general market.
You asserted:
In my opinion, the budding gold bull is too embryonic to withstand a general severe
market crash. The theory that investors would flock to the safety and traditional
security of gold in such an event does not hold water.
If a severe stock market crash came within the next few weeks, gold stocks would
go down too. Even if bullion were higher than it is today. In 1987, a peak in bullion
prices did not prevent gold shares from giving back in a week most of their bull
advance over the past year and a half. In 1929, when stocks tanked,
EVERYTHING went down for 3 years. Gold and silver miners did not respond
with huge gains until four years after the crash when government devaluation of
paper money, and confiscation and revaluation of gold occurred. THEN the gold
stock bull appeared.
Now let's look at the record together. Let's examine what occurred during 1929 ( and aftermath ) , 1987 and the 1973-74 general market debacles. Let's examine the facts and numbers.
1929 AND AFTERMATH -
What Happened to Gold Stocks in the Great Crash Era ( 1929 - 1935 ) ?
Financial assets as reflected by the Dow Jones Industrial Average ( DJIA )
reached its peak value of 385 in October 1929, marking the beginning of
our country's worst bear market. And although the DJIA finally bottomed
at 41 in June 1932, the vast majority of stock investors continued to suffer
the effects of the languishing bear market during the next three years. By
December 1935 the stock market ( DJIA ) had only recovered to 140 from
its 1932 bottom -- still down a whopping 64% from its October 1929 peak.
What Did Smart Money Do In the 1929 Crash and Aftermath?
During the same bear market period smart-money moved from the plunging
equity markets ( i.e. financial assets ) to hard asset investments, like
Homestake Mining - which is used heretofore as a surrogate for all gold
stocks.
The stock price of this gold mining company soared relentlessly upward
during the entire bear market. Homestake Mining stock rose continuously
from $80 in October 1929 to $495 per share in December 1935 - which
represents a total return of 519% ( excluding cash dividends ) during the
devastating bear market period.
A much more detailed account of gold mining shares stellar performance in comparison to the devastating general bear market may be seen in the study: GOLD STOCKS AND THE GREAT CRASH OF 1929 - REVISITED at website:
http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials/great_crash.html
It will be necessary to delete the en in the word golden before pasting to your web locator.
That which has been is that which will be,
………….And that which has been done is that which will be done.
……………………………………………………………Solomon
1973-1974 BEAR MARKET DEBACLE -
What Happened During the Next Great Market Crash ( 1973/1974 ) ?
From the market high in 1973 to its low in 1974 the DJIA and the S&P 500
lost almost half their value - while the previously high-flying technology
stocks plummeted more than 60%. Enough to cause heart-failure to the
credulous believers of THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT. Even the relatively
safe utilities were decimated - as they dropped more than 50% from their
1973 high to their nadir in 1974. H-O-W-E-V-E-R, students of financial
history took profitable refuge in gold metal stocks. The Gold Mining Index,
composed of ASA, Campbell Red Lake and Dome Mining, appreciated
more than 260% from its 1973 low ( 40 ) to its 1974 high ( 147 ) . This merits
being redundant. During the severe 1973/74 bear market, stocks lost half
their value - while gold mining companies almost quadrupled.
The over-riding guideline of my precious metals' research was aptly
described by one of Wall Street's legendary wizards, Bernard Baruch -
unfortunately, unknown to most of today's investment Pollyannas. His
observation still rings with logic and clarity:
…………….. Gold has worked down from Alexander's time.....
……………….When something holds good for two thousand years,
……………….I do not believe it can be so because of
……………….prejudice or mistaken theory.
1987 MARKET CRASH
Here we have a horse of a slightly different color. The following is a post I made to Kitco about two years ago --- verbatim.
THE XAU PRICE ACTION DURING THE 1987 CRASH WILL NOT BE REPEATED
For a number of weeks I have seen several postings alluding to the possibility that in the next stock market decline ( or even crash ) , the XAU may possibly fall in sympathy with the overall market. I am strongly in disagreement with this view for the following reasons.
When the general stock market started to come apart at the seams in October 1987, the XAU HAD ALREADY COMPLETED AN INCREDIBLE LONG BULL MARKET. From its trough of 58.72 in July 1986 to its high of 157 in mid-September 1987, the XAU had appreciated over 167% - IN A LITTLE OVER 15 MONTHS. That's way overbought in anybody's book! So despite the stock market debacle, the XAU was long overdue for its own correction. I cannot think of any historical occurrence where an index rose on average 11% per month for 15 months WITHOUT A CORRECTION. Furthermore, when the silver and gold index is up more than 100%, you may rest assured the gold secondaries were up in the stratosphere of 300-500% appreciation. And as a wise old pundit once warned: To refuse to cash in on securities that have doubled or tripled, is to reject the inescapable lessons of history.
All the above begs the question: What about today? Is the XAU and secondary gold shares at high risk in the event the general stock market starts to decline in earnest ( read beginning the bear market ) ?
Using the 15 month time period of the 1987 example, we are not too amazed to discover that today's XAU has been totally FLAT!. There has been no price appreciation - albeit interim high price volatility.
But let's be even more objective and go back 19 months from today. On this basis we see the XAU up a rather modest 24% from its March 1995 low. It is rather obvious the XAU situation today is no where close to the excessively overbought period of late 1987. Besides, the Fed will not allow a 1987-type meltdown to occur. The Fed was caught unawares in that October - although it recuperated rapidly. You can bet your bottom dollar that there are Fed members who watch like hawks the daily Wall Street operations.
In summation, the recent past and current XAU situation is the flip-side of that overbought condition in late 1987. Additionally, the gold market sentiment readings are conducive to a strong bull market in all gold shares - á la early 1993! Moreover, there are many technical and intermarket factors which forecast much higher gold share prices for the next six months. …The cards are all falling into place for gold investments to surge.
To wait for gold shares to react - before initiating or increasing your position - will prove to be very foolhardy.
Today's bullion and gold share markets remind me of the first 3-4 minutes of Rossini's William Tell Overture - the few moments of calm, before the tumultuous storm. Play it again, Sam!
I don't think they ever played Rossini at Rick's Place, but you older guys get the idea. ( 44 )
………We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
…………………………- Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel laureate in Economics
Precious metals stocks WILL INDEED PROVIDE A SAFE HARBOR for monies fleeeing the next general bear market. And human nature dictates that although some may have enough gold investments today, they will INDEED increase their holdings as all paper around them is recognized as just
P-A-P-E-R. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:17
vronsky (I'M NOT SO SURE…) ID#427357:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
REF: Mike Sheller ( Rumplestilskin )
I 'm not so sure that gold stocks will go down during the next general bear market for stocks. I am referring to your statements today that gold stocks will follow the general market down the drain. On the contrary, I believe that gold stocks will INDEED provide one of the only safe harbors for all the money abandoning general stocks, once the bear market reasserts itself. I feel this way because HISTORY tells me this… especially in light of current market conditions related to gold stocks vis-a-vis the general market.
You asserted:
In my opinion, the budding gold bull is too embryonic to withstand a general severe
market crash. The theory that investors would flock to the safety and traditional
security of gold in such an event does not hold water.
If a severe stock market crash came within the next few weeks, gold stocks would
go down too. Even if bullion were higher than it is today. In 1987, a peak in bullion
prices did not prevent gold shares from giving back in a week most of their bull
advance over the past year and a half. In 1929, when stocks tanked,
EVERYTHING went down for 3 years. Gold and silver miners did not respond
with huge gains until four years after the crash when government devaluation of
paper money, and confiscation and revaluation of gold occurred. THEN the gold
stock bull appeared.
Now let's look at the record together. Let's examine what occurred during 1929 ( and aftermath ) , 1987 and the 1973-74 general market debacles. Let's examine the facts and numbers.
1929 AND AFTERMATH -
What Happened to Gold Stocks in the Great Crash Era ( 1929 - 1935 ) ?
Financial assets as reflected by the Dow Jones Industrial Average ( DJIA )
reached its peak value of 385 in October 1929, marking the beginning of
our country's worst bear market. And although the DJIA finally bottomed
at 41 in June 1932, the vast majority of stock investors continued to suffer
the effects of the languishing bear market during the next three years. By
December 1935 the stock market ( DJIA ) had only recovered to 140 from
its 1932 bottom -- still down a whopping 64% from its October 1929 peak.
What Did Smart Money Do In the 1929 Crash and Aftermath?
During the same bear market period smart-money moved from the plunging
equity markets ( i.e. financial assets ) to hard asset investments, like
Homestake Mining - which is used heretofore as a surrogate for all gold
stocks.
The stock price of this gold mining company soared relentlessly upward
during the entire bear market. Homestake Mining stock rose continuously
from $80 in October 1929 to $495 per share in December 1935 - which
represents a total return of 519% ( excluding cash dividends ) during the
devastating bear market period.
A much more detailed account of gold mining shares stellar performance in comparison to the devastating general bear market may be seen in the study: GOLD STOCKS AND THE GREAT CRASH OF 1929 - REVISITED at website:
http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials/great_crash.html
It will be necessary to delete the en in the word golden before pasting to your web locator.
That which has been is that which will be,
………….And that which has been done is that which will be done.
……………………………………………………………Solomon
1973-1974 BEAR MARKET DEBACLE -
What Happened During the Next Great Market Crash ( 1973/1974 ) ?
From the market high in 1973 to its low in 1974 the DJIA and the S&P 500
lost almost half their value - while the previously high-flying technology
stocks plummeted more than 60%. Enough to cause heart-failure to the
credulous believers of THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT. Even the relatively
safe utilities were decimated - as they dropped more than 50% from their
1973 high to their nadir in 1974. H-O-W-E-V-E-R, students of financial
history took profitable refuge in gold metal stocks. The Gold Mining Index,
composed of ASA, Campbell Red Lake and Dome Mining, appreciated
more than 260% from its 1973 low ( 40 ) to its 1974 high ( 147 ) . This merits
being redundant. During the severe 1973/74 bear market, stocks lost half
their value - while gold mining companies almost quadrupled.
The over-riding guideline of my precious metals' research was aptly
described by one of Wall Street's legendary wizards, Bernard Baruch -
unfortunately, unknown to most of today's investment Pollyannas. His
observation still rings with logic and clarity:
…………….. Gold has worked down from Alexander's time.....
……………….When something holds good for two thousand years,
……………….I do not believe it can be so because of
……………….prejudice or mistaken theory.
1987 MARKET CRASH
Here we have a horse of a slightly different color. The following is a post I made to Kitco about two years ago --- verbatim.
THE XAU PRICE ACTION DURING THE 1987 CRASH WILL NOT BE REPEATED
For a number of weeks I have seen several postings alluding to the possibility that in the next stock market decline ( or even crash ) , the XAU may possibly fall in sympathy with the overall market. I am strongly in disagreement with this view for the following reasons.
When the general stock market started to come apart at the seams in October 1987, the XAU HAD ALREADY COMPLETED AN INCREDIBLE LONG BULL MARKET. From its trough of 58.72 in July 1986 to its high of 157 in mid-September 1987, the XAU had appreciated over 167% - IN A LITTLE OVER 15 MONTHS. That's way overbought in anybody's book! So despite the stock market debacle, the XAU was long overdue for its own correction. I cannot think of any historical occurrence where an index rose on average 11% per month for 15 months WITHOUT A CORRECTION. Furthermore, when the silver and gold index is up more than 100%, you may rest assured the gold secondaries were up in the stratosphere of 300-500% appreciation. And as a wise old pundit once warned: To refuse to cash in on securities that have doubled or tripled, is to reject the inescapable lessons of history.
All the above begs the question: What about today? Is the XAU and secondary gold shares at high risk in the event the general stock market starts to decline in earnest ( read beginning the bear market ) ?
Using the 15 month time period of the 1987 example, we are not too amazed to discover that today's XAU has been totally FLAT!. There has been no price appreciation - albeit interim high price volatility.
But let's be even more objective and go back 19 months from today. On this basis we see the XAU up a rather modest 24% from its March 1995 low. It is rather obvious the XAU situation today is no where close to the excessively overbought period of late 1987. Besides, the Fed will not allow a 1987-type meltdown to occur. The Fed was caught unawares in that October - although it recuperated rapidly. You can bet your bottom dollar that there are Fed members who watch like hawks the daily Wall Street operations.
In summation, the recent past and current XAU situation is the flip-side of that overbought condition in late 1987. Additionally, the gold market sentiment readings are conducive to a strong bull market in all gold shares - á la early 1993! Moreover, there are many technical and intermarket factors which forecast much higher gold share prices for the next six months. …The cards are all falling into place for gold investments to surge.
To wait for gold shares to react - before initiating or increasing your position - will prove to be very foolhardy.
Today's bullion and gold share markets remind me of the first 3-4 minutes of Rossini's William Tell Overture - the few moments of calm, before the tumultuous storm. Play it again, Sam!
I don't think they ever played Rossini at Rick's Place, but you older guys get the idea. ( 44 )
………We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
…………………………- Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel laureate in Economics
Precious metals stocks WILL INDEED PROVIDE A SAFE HARBOR for monies fleeeing the next general bear market. And human nature dictates that although some may have enough gold investments today, they will INDEED increase their holdings as all paper around them is recognized as just
P-A-P-E-R. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 09:16
Mike Sheller (OLD GOLD, REIFY, SWP1, TOLERANT1) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - OLD GOLD: The 1973-75 bear market environment had been primed by YEARS of accelerating inflation, rising rates, and politcal catastrophe. There is nothing of that around now. The realization that there is a fundamental imbalance in the economy and a society takes a great deal of time, in most cases, to exteriorize as an asset inversion. Barring a crash, this will likely be the case for stocks and gold over the next few years. But first interest rates must start to rise. Otherwise a Puetz Style deflationary collapse will take everything with it as far as shares are concerned.
REIFY: Today's investment community is standing in King Kong's footprint, and nobody sees any signs of any giant ape.
SWP1: You are asking for lightning to strike twice. I was working off a VERY specific, powerful, and rare aspect in DROOY's horoscope. DROOY might respond favorably to a Jupiter conjunction with its Venus next week, and this may bode well for golds as a group as well. But this doesn't excite me as much as SSC or GSTD. My main target now is SSC with a Jupiter conjunction to its Sun at 22 Pisces in Mid May. That looks promising.
TOLERANT1: Got it. Have replied. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:51
Silverbaron (Artificial Intelligence Trading Tool for FSAGX, FDPMX) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Anyone trading Fidelity Sector Funds ( and notably precious metals funds FSAGX & FDPMX ) might want to take a daily look at the forecasts on this site:
The system has an enviable record of forecasting of short-term trends - recommending short or long positions, and prediction of percent gain from last change in recommendation. The CURRENT forecasting percentage of wins ( profitable calls ) is 97%.
The developer of the site is a University Prof. and also manager of a small hedge fund, in which he uses the predictions to manage his client's accounts.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:50
Straddler (Bill Buckler, Anyone? -- RE: Open Interest) ID#280215:
Copyright © 1998 Straddler All rights reserved - I noticed that yesterday's Gold open interest rose a hefty 15,000+ contracts. For anyone that has that has the ability to follow this, do you know if most of this occurred during the early part of the day when prices were falling, or if it occurred during the comback in the afternoon. If it occurred in the morning, it means a decent amount of new sell contracts came in. If it occurred at the end during the price rise, it means new buyers were coming in to thwart the shorts. Any info would be appreciated.
By the way the last few days showed Open interest rising with the price rising, ON HIGH volume. First time in a long time!
FWIW and IMHO: Had yesterday ended where it started ( down ) , it would only have been a blip on the weekly and monthly charts/indicators. Daily indicators are topping, but the Weekly and Monthly are still showing strength. I think that on a daily basis, we will correct soon ( maybe to the low 300's, but the Monthly and Weekly are showing enough strength that even a steeper correction would not affect them in the short term ( ie.. next few weeks or so ) .
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:47
HenryD (Preacher - Market Comments) ID#36156: - Just wanted to personally thank you for your evening comments on the day's action. I do appreciate them and I'm getting somewhat addicted to 'em. Thanks for your consistent efforts to bring balance to this otherwise pendulous gathering.
HenryD - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:43
Poorboys (Twinkle Head) ID#224149: - Pete –Before you call someone a bigot ---Please learn the English Language and maybe some Rap ----Niggas ---Nigtitate –Reference Another = Twinkle Head. ---Away to Work for a living
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:34
STUDIO.R (@JTF....I think my brain leaked out my mouth.......) ID#288369: - onto the pillow last night. And the sheets were changed early this morning. I'll compose a response re: oil production costs/opec when I have been reprogrammed. REformatting is a lonely feeling. Good Day All.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:31
tolerant1 (Mike Sheller) ID#31868: - email received?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:16
Lou_Jan (Old Gold, Mike Sheller) ID#318172: - We are at the threshhold via the Euro anticipation of a gold standard while the Dow bubble is still expanded, contrary to the time of the Dow crash in 1929 when we were off the gold standard. Difference being - that a large segment such as Europe and very likely Asia are very much alerted to the need of preempting the anticipated collapse of the U.S. markets with installing a gold standard, thereby reinforcing their currencies and the price of gold.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:07
Silverbaron (Mike Sheller & Reify) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
I appreciate your comments on gold mining stocks re: overall market decline. Here's an interesting trading/forecasting system which was posted on the forum last week ( Only Toronto Precious Metals Index shown on these charts ) which I am watching closely for a sell signal. They are forecasting a Mining stock top in the last week of July.
http://home.istar.ca/~inpath/gold.gif
http://home.istar.ca/~inpath/gold-cl.gif
Mike: Do you have any astrological forecasts around the end of July?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 08:01
sharefin (Whoose bubble) ID#284255:
- - When you look at the charts of these indices,
You realize that we are not looking at a USA bubble.
We are looking at a GLOBAL BUBBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In fact the Dow is somewhat of a lagard.
For those expecting a gentle bear market - BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IBEX-35
http://www.espin.net/graphs/1.gif
Indice General
http://www.espin.net/graphs/0.gif
CAC-40
http://www.espin.net/graphs/6.gif
Mibtel
http://www.espin.net/graphs/135.gif
Swiss Index
http://www.espin.net/graphs/132.gif
DAX
http://www.espin.net/graphs/5.gif
FTSE-100
http://www.espin.net/graphs/4.gif
Toronto-300
http://www.espin.net/graphs/131.gif
Dow
http://www.espin.net/graphs/2.gif
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:55
Ted (When the majority are grossly obese & smoke cigs---this is NOT surprising) ID#330175: - http://www.hfxnews.southam.ca/story3.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:53
Donald__A (Mysterious electromagnetic wave wipes out Chinese communications.) ID#26793: - http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/international_news/chinasate_1.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:51
OLD GOLD () ID#238295: - Reify: You may be right about the Japanese market. Starting to ignore a tidal wave of bad news. Let us remember that bear markets end when the gloom is so thick you can cut it with a knife. Just like gold a few months ago. I suspect the Nikkei will greatly outperform the Dow over the next few years.
Mike Sheller; Interesting that you did not mention the 1973-75 period when gold and gold stocks soared as the Dow got smashed. If bullion goes up sharply and gold stocks are cheap as they are today, these will soar no matter what the Dow does. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:48
Ted (This is NOT a JOKE) ID#330175:
Copyright © 1998 Ted/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I am a sailor in the New Zealand Navy. My parents live in the
suburb of Seatoun and one of my sisters, who lives in
Palmerston North, is married to an Australian. My Father and
Mother have recently been arrested for growing and selling
marijuana and are currently dependent on my two sisters, who
are prostitutes in Auckland. I have two brothers, one who is
currently serving a non-parole life sentence in Mt. Eden
Prison, Auckland, for the rape & murder of a teenage boy in
1994,the other currently being held in the Wellington remand
centre on charges of incest with his three children. I have
recently become engaged to marry a former Thai prostitute who
lives in Christchurch and indeed is still a part time working
girl in a Brothel, however, her time there is limited as she
has recently been infected with an STD. We intend to marry as
soon as possible and are currently looking into the
possibility of opening our own brothel with my fiancee
utilizing her knowledge of the industry working as the
manager. I am hoping my two sisters would be interested in
joining our team. Although I would prefer them not to
prostitute themselves at least it would get them off the
streets and hopefully the heroin. My problem is this: I love
my fiancee and look forward to bringing her into the family
and of course I want to be totally honest with her. Should I
tell her about my brother-in-law being an Australian?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:46
Donald__A (BOJ says weak economy forces them to provide monetary support) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/boj_says_c_2.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:44
Ted (Nick@C.............................I can take it) ID#330175: - Are ya tryin ta get me goat er somethin....June Gold down .20
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:37
Nick@C (World's most profitable gold company.) ID#393224: - http://www.barrick.com/quick.htm
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:26
Donald__A (Korea is a country that is still not suitable for investment) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/korea_bond_1.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:22
Donald__A (Talk of cutting Japanese bond rate to zero) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/japan_rate_1.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:19
Donald__A (U.S. dollar continues retreat) ID#26793: - http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/dlr_contin_2.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:15
Reify (Mike Sheller and ALL) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Your point about gold going down with markets IF they crash is,
a correct one, however if you think of this final leg of the long
up move in many major world markets, as a parabolic one, then the
last portion will tend to diminish in speed and go down in the same
way, at least the first part, which is a slowing up and slowing down, which is actually smart money distributing near the top and the masses
buying, as we've seen the dips. This may take awhile, and not be a
crash in a spike formation, but retesting the high and starting to make
lower lows and lower highs,all while gold and PMs and shares do the op-
posite. We've had a 2/3 retracement of the highs made in 1980, and this
looks horrible on the charts, but the gold up-trend is in tact, and has
been. The beginning of the next gold bull might compare to the previous
one only take longer as the patterns have been greatly increased in size.
Look at the 30-40 year chart of Dome, now Placer Dome, and you'll see
a repeat of it's long term pattern, or rythm, as I like to call it, and
what took 6-7 years from tops to tops, now may take 3-4 times that long.
Interesting ay what? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:11
SWP1 (@ Mike Sheller) ID#233199: -
I missed your call on Drooy. Wha't your current call on that one. I care because I own it.
Thanks - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:09
Ted (Nick@C......................& don't say that cause it usually comes true) ID#330175: - Watch the bastard ( ABX ) take off like a rocket ship now~~~~death to Pedro Munk
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:07
Ted (no JOKE) ID#330175: - An American is walking down the street in London on a windy day.
A woman is walking down the street toward him when suddenly the
wind blows her dress up. Astonishingly, she is not wearing
undies.
The American, trying to sound as English as possible, says to her,
A bit airy, isn't it?
The woman scowls and replies angrily, What did you expect,
feathers?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 07:07
Nick@C (Ted) ID#393224: - G'day mate. Where can I buy ABX The most reliable indicator on the earth ( The 'Ted sell signal' ) has just predicted that it will double in a few weeks. PS--how's the weather
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:59
Bill Buckler (Gold Resistance) ID#256381:
Copyright © 1998 Bill Buckler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Right now, at just below $310 on the spot future, Gold is sitting right at its 40 week ( 200-day ) MA and right at the top of its down channel on a weekly bar chart. It would be extraordinary if there was not some resistance at this point.
The wall of worry is very much intact. Latest example is the fact that the Aussie Gold index was off 10 points today while the broad market was up 18, mostly on the back of bank stocks, to post an all time high.
If Gold gets much above the $310 level on a spot future basis, the potential for a pretty explosive upmove increases greatly. If it corrects here, we'll see if $300 holds. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:52
Mike Sheller (Leland) ID#347447: - Drop it 2 degrees and fire for effect!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:51
Mike Sheller (Ted) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Thanks Ted - but my MOST rational posts have been the seemingly IRRATIONAL ones. Like my Jupiter/Mars call to John Disney on DROOY a month ahead of time for the DAY it would explode ( which it did for over 150% in a week or so ) or my Pluto/Sun/Neptune conjunction call for my favorite gold stock GSTD which would have doubled your money by now if anyone were irrational enough to buy it when I was stumping for it . Just take a LOOK at its chart. I can't do much better than that astrologically. ( Some Kitcoites Did buy it, and more power to 'em I say ) . If this gold rally continues, GSTD will be the gains leader, mark my words. IMVHO of course. And you all know how HUMBLE I am.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:49
Leland (Mike Sheller) ID#316193: - Your windage and elevation adjustments always a big help on
Kitco! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:40
Ted (Mike Sheller(6:16)) ID#330175: - good rational post!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:16
Mike Sheller (Rumplestilskin) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - In my opinion, the budding gold bull is too embryonic to withstand a general severe market crash. The theory that investors would flock to the safety and traditional security of gold in such an event does not hold water. Psychologically and culturally, to the current crop of investors and money managers gold has no place in their market consciousness. It is a non-entity. They will not run to it. As for the Big Boys who would surely buy gold in such an event, anyone with half a brain and enough experience can see that stocks will have to retrace some of this advance, and that this bull market has all the configurations of a classic bubble and an unsustainable angle of acceleration. It may not reverse today, or tomorrow, or even next month, but reverse it will, as surely as night follows day. The Big Boys have all the gold they need right now.
If a severe stock market crash came within the next few weeks, gold stocks would go down too. Even if bullion were higher than it is today. In 1987, a peak in bullion prices did not prevent gold shares from giving back in a week most of their bull advance over the past year and a half. In 1929, when stocks tanked, EVERYTHING went down for 3 years. Gold and silver miners did not respond with huge gains until four years after the crash when government devaluation of paper money, and confiscation and revaluation of gold occurred. THEN the gold stock bull appeared. The wonderful minds and spirits at Kitco are a minority, a miniscule fleck in the eye of society when it comes to modern market psychology. The Kitco gold camp will be proven correct early enough in the new century. But not overnite. It will take a couple of years of drama and turmoil to shake the current crop of investors loose from their delusions about investing and steer them to any kind of comprehension of gold. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 06:13
Nick@C (For JD--Harmony anyone) ID#393224: - http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=HGMCY&d=t
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 05:52
jims (Prices slightly stuck) ID#252391: - Seems Kitco is stuck tonight. News off CNBC has gold up 15 cents and silver up 8 cents. Plat's rally puts it right into resistance at 4.15 basis July. $6.50 looks like a block for silver.
My work says these rallies have to hold. Failure today would sound the death knell for the short short term ( 1 week ) . Background looks like the rallies should extend given dollar weakness, European market declines, and the Japanese going this way then that then no where, but I need to see these metals show some strenght to keep me a short term bull. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 05:50
Leland (Rumplestilskin) ID#316193: -
Suggested reading or re-reading, Gold Stocks and the Great
Crash of 1929 Revisited on the Golden-eagle site.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 05:26
Rumplestilskin (Market Meltdown.) ID#346248: - Most of the readers of Kitco seem to be expecting a major correction in the equity markets. What kind of a reaction can be expected from the pricing of the quality golds like ABX. If the price of gold is going up can it be assumed that ABX share value would maintain during a major crash? I would appreciate your input on this.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 05:07
Fred(@Vienna)__A () ID#185448: - European stock-markets get hammered today. Go bear!
Painting easter-eggs for my daughter yesterday evening, I came to the following conclusion: The baby-boomer-bubble is no bubble, but a snake´s egg. The shell, covering an unknown input still intact - but will get cracks and finally burst out of the blue, once the beast inside ( sorry to all snakes and serpentologists ) is strong enough to penetrate the surface.
Beware of the bear-snake! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 04:43
Leland (Japan's Discount Rate Dropping to 0.25% or Maybe Zero) ID#31876: -
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980408/japan_rate_1.html - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 04:25
Turtle (@oris) ID#29999:
Copyright © 1998 Turtle/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I just want to make a quick note. The A-10 was scheduled by the US Air Force to be decommissioned from active service. After the Gulf War they decided to keep the A-10. The Army indicated immediately that they would take the plane if the Air Force went through with their original plan. I was in this small FTX ( Field Training Exercise ) and I have seen with my own eyes the after affects of what this bird can do. IT IS AWESOME! Also, the Mig-29 is a solid frame aircraft, which means it is capable of performing some very heavy G's and not worrying about ripping pieces off the nose. The F-16 is an aircraft that relays heavily on state of the art technology. I personally believe if the F-16 and the Mig 29 were only using guns, the Mig-29 would dominate. More speed, more maneuverability, and dependable working parts.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 04:23
Leland (Nick Chase on Anticipating The Anticipations of Investors) ID#31876: -
http://fennel.assumption.edu/view/1998/view0398.htm - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 04:21
sharefin (Starr Report Underway) ID#284255: - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-04/08/077r-040898-idx.html
Large Portions of Document for House Said to Be Ready - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:59
John Disney__A (Connections connections ?) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - For newtron.
I have no connections to Rangold or
any other mine or company. I live outside
Capetown.
I am retired. I was born in the US but have
been converted to an Australian. I'm not
even a South African .. Only a resident.
Im connected to my wife and 3 dogs. Other
than that Im relatively unconnected to
anything much.
Im completely indifferent as to what mine
or stock anyone buys or if they are even interested
in gold. As long as I am in this group
I will contribute as I can and along the lines
where my interest lies at time. End of story.
I think Polarbear's situation is similar but
differs in the details - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:54
Nick@C (Kaplan) ID#393224:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved -
BUY GOLD-The recently accelerating commercial accumulation of gold futures in a rising market is the most
impressive feature of the past week's trading, especially since it has been given scant attention by analysts, and
indicates that the price of gold is likely to continue to rise sharply.
PUTTING IT IN PERSPECTIVE, OR, HOW STOCKS ARE ENORMOUSLY OVERVALUED AND PRECIOUS
METALS EQUALLY UNDERVALUED-For half the price that they paid for Citicorp, Travelers Group could have
purchased all of the world's precious metals mines. All of them at half the price! ( In practice, of course, any such
massive takeover would require a significant premium, but it would still have cost considerably less than Citicorp. )
Naturally, analysts almost universally praised the Citicorp acquisition as a tremendous bargain. Go figure.
STILL COMMITTED-Commercial accumulation for gold surprisingly accelerated on Thursday, Friday, and even
more strikingly on Monday, with a net increase in open interest of 15,369 contracts on Monday alone-a number
usually only seen on a day when gold drops several percent. Such consistent commercial accumulation in a rising
market is extremely bullish, indicating that commercials are willing to continue buying without waiting for a dip in
the price. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:51
Auric (Das RheinGold) ID#255151: -
Here is a picture of Basel on the Rhine-- http://www.bsweb.ch/bsweb/basel/pic/basel3.jpg - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:42
Reify (Trouble with Predicting) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - My work says the top is in. Will it be tested later, sure. Could I be
wrong sure.
Ya see the trouble with making a prediction here, is when found wrong
everyone jumps on you. That ain't nice, and it drives many away from
making priditions that could have been helpful.
Remeber some of these names- Puetz, RJ, Oldman, Hepcat, and many others
well what do think of the site without their input, has it improved
to everyone's satisfaction, or are a few contrarian ideas helpful, even
when wrong.
A day or two ago I spoke about the Nikkei having made and tested the
bottom and much bad news can be found in the media. Now wouldn't you
think it and ideal time to buy?
Now I say the averages in the US and Europe are going down, and may only
come back up to test the tops. If I'm wrong- so be it, but that's what
my long term work is showing. However some of the cats and dogs may still
jump, and some look like they've started.
Good luck to everyone, and try to accept each other, one can learn even
from those that are wrong. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:33
John Disney__A (The trouble with Lihir ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - is that there are 900 million shares !!! harmony
has 49 million shares.
Now Im NOT cr@pping on Lihir... its a big deposit.
The Island is probably beautiful. and Id love to buy
some. BUT then I make these numbers
Source Mining Journal
Lihir .. 14.6 milloz proven and probable and gold
RESOURCES including reserves of 42.6 mill oz.
Operating Costs for the first quarter are reported at
255$/oz. Project costs are estimated at 803 mill $ or
55$ per oz of proved and probable reserves.
Thus resourses per share are 42.6 /900 = 0.047 ounces
Harmony proved and probable are 13.1 mill oz with
RESOURCES of 70 mill oz. On a resource basis that's
70/49 = 1.42 OZ/share ..
So fellas maybe some numbers are wrong .. check me
out .. tell me what Im doing wrong
I estimate a share of harmony has 1.42/.047 = 30
times as much gold resource as a share of Lihir.
Gee thats a lot .. and Lihir is $2.5 so that makes
Harmony worth 2.5*30 =75 $ a share ...and it sells for
$4.5.
Now I really HOPE that Lihir goes UP and UP.
Mainly because Harmony will go up 30 times as fast.
Please dont get all huffy now and mad .. Some of
you cant BUY Harmony for one reason or another ..
These are simply the NUMBERS and the REASONING ..
BUY WHATEVER YOU LIKE . - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:25
John Disney__A (Taking bout gaps) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - for Myrmidon..
Just between us .. I would not attach that much
significance to the gaps in Harmony. You are looking
at a chart of the ADR. The stock trades during the day
in RSA then at the rsa close the ADR opens in NY.
The VOLUMN in rsa dwarfs NY trading half mill friday
a mill monday and a half mill tuesday vs about
80,000 in NY. There is a small gap on the rand chart
at 20 rand friday close here and the monday open here
at 20.5 BUT that was because of heavy NY buying friday
night which bumped up the monday open here.
Gaps would only have meaning in my view IF we had a
continuous chart for the RSA and NY trading which we
do not. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:04
Jack (For Conservative Goldbugs Only: buy into the BIS) ID#252127: -
When the site comes up, put the symbol ( biz ) or ( bib ) into the Quick Search Box. Hallelujah
http://www.swissinvest.com/ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 03:04
Winston__A (I think somebody asked for this...) ID#244360:
Copyright © 1998 Winston__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - BANK FOR INTERNATIONAL SETTLEMENTS ( BIS )
Bank für Internationalen Zahlungsausgleich ( BIZ )
Banque des Règlements Internationaux ( BRI )
Banca dei Regolamenti Internazionali ( BRI )
* * *
1. Registered office
The registered office of the BIS is situated at Centralbahnplatz 2, Basle, Switzerland.
Postal address: CH-4002 Basle
Cable address: INTERBANK
Telephone: ( 061 ) 280 80 80
Telex: 962 487 biz ch Telefax: ( 061 ) 280 91 00 and ( 061 ) 280 81 00 E-mail: EMAILMASTER@bis.org
World Wide Web site: http://www.bis.org
The international telephone and telefax code for Basle is ( 41-61 ) .
The BIS has no branch offices or subsidiaries.
2. Board of Directors
The Board is made up of representatives from eleven countries ( Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States of America ) .
Chairman of the Board of Directors, President of the Bank: Alfons Verplaetse, Brussels.
Vice-Chairman: Lord Kingsdown, London.
Members of the Board:
Urban Bäckström, Stockholm; Vincenzo Desario, Rome; Antonio Fazio, Rome; E.A.J. George, London; Alan Greenspan, Washington; Hervé Hannoun, Paris; W.J. McDonough, New York; Yasuo Matsushita, Tokyo; Hans Meyer, Zürich; Helmut Schlesinger, Frankfurt a/M; G.G. Thiessen, Ottawa; Hans Tietmeyer, Frankfurt a/M; Jean-Claude Trichet, Paris; Nout H.E.M. Wellink, Amsterdam; Philippe Wilmès, Brussels.
Alternates:
Jean-Pierre Patat or Armand Pujal, Paris; Ian Plenderleith or T.R. Smeeton, London; Jean-Jacques Rey or Marcia De Wachter, Brussels; Alice M. Rivlin ( Ms. ) or E.M. Truman, Washington; Carlo Santini or Stefano Lo Faso, Rome; Helmut Schieber or Bernd Goos, Frankfurt a.M..
3. Management
Andrew Crockett: General Manager/ André Icard,Assistant General Manager/ Gunter D. Baer: Secretary General, Head of Department/ Malcolm Gill: Head of the Banking Department/ William R. White: Economic Adviser, Head of the Monetary and Economic Department/ Marten de BoerManager: Accounting, Budgeting and ECU Clearing/ Renato Filosa: Manager, Monetary and Economic Department/ Mario Giovanoli: Legal Adviser, Manager/ Guy Noppen: Manager, General Secretariat/ Günter Pleines: Deputy Head of the Banking Department/
July 1997
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:59
sam (All) ID#286234: - I forgot-
Buy gold and don't take no wooden nickels! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:55
Myrmidon (@ Newtron) ID#339212: -
Play the technical chart and forget the fundamentals. That's how my head got screwed up with the NA golds. Throw in a couple of $100K into RANGY and forget about it.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:54
sam (oris) ID#286234: - Sounds to me like we have enough shooters around here to choose up teams for combat beer can competition. ;- )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:50
sam (Winston) ID#286234: - I can see that you were just getting' smarter wherever you were the past little while. Good night all.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:40
newtron (DISNEY & POIAR BEAR RE RSA AU STOCKS) ID#335184:
Copyright © 1998 newtron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I very much enjoyed your informative post re RSA AU stocks @ Golden Eagle. I have never owned them & wonder if you can further enlighten me :
1 ) Don't RSA AU shares historicaly move to extremes, i.e. higher highs & lower lows relative to NA Shares ?
2 ) What has Rangy specifically done to transform their mining operation from deep holes to surface operation ? What is % of their new surface to deep ?
3 ) What is their cash & debt position on the balance sheet ?
4 ) Do you or Polar bear have any connection to RANGY or each other, other than as shareholders ?
Looking gift hoarse in the mouth, I remain,
Y.O.S.
TAR BABY - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:33
Myrmidon (While most gold stocks tanked today this one didn't) ID#339212: -
http://www.stockmaster.com/wc/form/P1?template=sm/chart&Symbol=HGMCY
up $1/16. Take a good look at the gaps. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:22
A.Goose () ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - From FWN 15:46 4/7/98 report
Notice the price mentioned for spot palladium
Updating Latest Spot Metal Market Prices
-- Updating throughout --
New York-April 7-UPI--LATEST SPOT METAL MARKET PRICES.
Prices do not necessarily represent prices at which
transactions have actually incurred.
Copper, electrolytic wirebars,
87.85 cents per pound.
Scrap wire No. 2 N.Y. 66.00 cents per pound.
Lead, common, corroding 45.77 cent per pound
Nickel, briquettes delivered to customers,
$3.60-3.65 per pound.
Palladium, N.Y. dealer -
$293.00 per troy ounce.
Platinum, soft, 99.5 fine, producer
$415.00-416.00 dealer-approx.
per troy ounce.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:20
Myrmidon (LORD DISNEY, YOU AND I LOVE THE SAME....) ID#339212: -
stock, and fortunately there is enough of it to even share it!!!
I noticed the strength in HARMONY but I think the gaps will soon close.
I bought more RANGY this morning, SUSPICIOUS wants it for a buck.
...of course the people in hell want iced water too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:16
sharefin (Some people are preferably vindictive) ID#284255: - I prefer to pass through life.
Without a vindictive tongue.
Passive
MU
Not VITRIOL
gone - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:13
A.Goose (It isn't as bad as...) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Kitco shows it. Kitco is down again.
Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Apr 08, 1998 @ 2:02 am ET
Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.
GC M8 June Gold 3111 -9 -0.3 3124 3111 69.8K
SI K8 May Silver 6385 +8 +0.1 6415 6385 15.9K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 7770 0 0.0 7780 7750 3.30K
PL N8 July Platinum 4125 +15 +0.4 4130 4080 1.51K
PA M8 June Palladium 25920 +20 +0.1 25970 25450 468
Goodnight all. Spread the word comex eligible stocks are low and dropping. And the world is trading trading in SDR's and Gold Franc's instead of USdollars? Very interesting currency twist. Can't wait to see what the night shift does with SDRer's work. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:12
Pete (PH in LA, F*, the unpronouncable, poorboys) ID#222231:
Copyright © 1998 Pete/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Glad to see someone else that has the GUTS to call a spade a spade. Wish that others that felt the same way would talk up also.
Gold has acted poorly for the past 18 yrs, not because of a true free market, but because of manipulation that most have not recognized until lately. They and thier ilk believe us to be stupid. All you need for proof are thier posts. They support this mania and look upon us as fools. THERE IS AN OLD SAW, HE WHO LAUGHS FIRST DOES NOT ALWAYS LAUGH LAST.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST, KICK A GOLDBUG ( DOG ) WHEN HE IS DOWN IS THIER MOTTO.
poorboys, your post re: rap and another was in very bad taste and shows your bigotry. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:04
Crystal Ball (@ F * and all) ID#340392: - Sorry about the double-post ( unintentional ) . Gotta get some shut-eye.
F* - Nazh' darovya
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:01
Crystal Ball (@ F * the unpronounceable) ID#340392:
Copyright © 1998 Crystal Ball/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Don't worry! Although LGB will be back, he's usually quite civil for a while after each little sabbatical. It's too bad people gave RJ a hard time for his candor; we just have to accept that each of us has different horizons and perspectives. RJ is a short term trader; I think the people who have a very long term Franz Pick outlook/mentality ( gold is money and paper is Dreck ) have a hard time accepting this mercurial quality and temperament. We are friends here and should be more tolerant and accepting of diverse points of view. A little less egocentrism and a tad more open-mindedness will go a long way. You never know, you might even experience that magic moment when you understand the other fellow's point of view.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 02:00
A.Goose () ID#256250: - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:50
SDRer__A ( And the VERY RICH Gold Franc certainly sees a lot of action! ) ID#280245:
Great work!!! As per usual.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:50
SDRer__A (And the VERY RICH Gold Franc certainly sees a lot of action!) ID#280245:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - @ ITL Courtesy of UNCITRAL
Convention on the Contract for the International Carriage of Goods by Road ( CMR ) ( Geneva, 19 May 1956 )
Article 23
1. When, under the provisions of this Convention, a carrier is liable for compensation in respect of total or partial loss of goods, such compensation shall be calculated by reference to the value of the goods at the place and time at which they were accepted for carriage. ...
3. Compensation shall not, however, exceed 25 francs per kilogram of gross weight short. Franc means the gold franc weighing 10/31 of a gramme and being of millesimal fineness 900.
http://itl.irv.uit.no/trade_law/art/UN.CMR.Road.Carriage.Contract.Convention.1956/023.html
Are we absolutely SURE OIL is priced in tattered ole USD? Couldn't it, might it jusssst be, that oil is priced in those nice, chocolate-y
Gold Francs? Are we SURE when CB's are shuffling the stacks of gold
bars around they are pricing them in crumpled ole USD? Wouldn't CB's
be more inclined to utilize their OWN LOVELY, CHUBBY Gold Franc?
Folks, we've been had....
Goodnight. Try to have this mess straightened out for the morning shift, OK? {:- ) ) - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:47
farfel (@CRYSTAL BALL...believe me, I understand Mr.RJ's point of view...) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - ...I understand it better than you might think. I grew up surrounded by some of the best, intellectually agile practitioners of such mainstream opinion.
He is preaching a self-serving line...and searches about for anything that validates it. That is fine. He is entitled.
However, he must mature at some point in his life and realize that there are others that preach a radically antithetical line...and they can expound on their differing ideology in an equally ( if not more ) compelling fashion.
I am not surprised to see him vanish...he is like the kid who owns the football and is the best kicker on the block. However, when someone new appears on the block who kicks just as well ( if not better ) , he gets all upset and runs home, taking his football with him.
However, the game continues, with or without him.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:45
mozel (@223) ID#153102: - I give you nothing.
Not thinking it possible makes anything impossible.
A mighty river begins in drops of rain.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:42
snowbird (APH--Thanks for the silver information) ID#220325: - As usual you were right on your S&P call, how much further down do you think it will go. 50 Points
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:40
Winston__A (@ F*) ID#244360: - Great disassembly of misaligned argumentation!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:37
Crystal Ball (@ F * the unpronounceable) ID#340392:
Copyright © 1998 Crystal Ball/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Don't worry! Although LGB will be back, he's usually quite civil for a while after each little sabbatical. It's too bad people gave RJ a hard time for his candor; we just have to accept that each of us has different horizons and perspectives. RJ is a short term trader; I think the people who have a very long term Franz Pick outlook/mentality ( gold is money and paper is Dreck ) have a hard time accepting this mercurial quality and temperament. We are friends here and should be more tolerant and accepting of diverse points of view. A little less egocentrism and a tad more open-mindedness will go a long way. You never know, you might even experience that magic moment when you understand the other fellow's point of view.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:33
SDRer__A (Boats and telephone calls are settled in not-necessarily dollars; but gold and oil are priced in $) ID#280245:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Last updated September 24, 1997 aky
INTERNATIONAL BUREAU
TELECOMMUNICATIONS DIVISION, POLICY & FACILITIES BRANCH
ACCOUNTING RATES OF THE UNITED STATES, THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND NEW
ZEALAND
The accounting rates are presented in the monetary units negotiated by the carriers. Most rates are denominated in either the U.S. dollar or the Special Drawing Right ( SDR ) , which is a market basket of five currencies ( the dollar, the pound, the mark, the yen, and the French franc ) . The gold franc is used in a very few cases.
The availability of other countries' accounting rates enables comparisons among the rates for service provided in three widely separate geographic locations to other countries around the world for the first time. This report presents the percentage differences between U.S. rates and rates of the United Kingdom and New Zealand to each other country. A positive
percentage value means that the U.S. rate to a country is higher than the rate of the U.K. or New Zealand to the same country.
A negative percentage value means that the U.S rate to a country is lower than the rate of the U.K. or New Zealand to the same country. The percentage values measure the size of the differences between accounting rates. The percentage figures are based on the SDR value of accounting rates, using an exchange rate of 1SDR=$1.4588 where conversions are necessary. A gold franc has a fixed factor for converting it to SDR ( 1SDR=3.061 GF ) .
http://www.fcc.gov/ib/td/pf/ukrates.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:25
farfel (@ CRYSTAL BALL...Don't you know we are in a NEW GOLD PARADIGM?) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Crystal said:
Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:42
Crystal Ball ( @ APH ) ID#340392:
Good play selling silver here! Sure as sunshine silver will see $5.05 ( minimum downside target ) this summer. Don't forget, friends, gold and silver have seasonal lows in the June - August timeframe. Get hedged now or be sorry later.
F* says:
Gold and silver's traditional patterns are breaking down in the same way that the DOW's traditional pattern broke down this year. Whatever happened to the JANUARY EFFECT? The DOW was in full dive mode throughout that month...despite the normal pattern that dictates it should be soaring. So much for market technical determinism!
Analogously, gold and silver will probably NOT repeat seasonal patterns this year. There is every reason to believe that international currency wars will commence full speed ahead beginning late this month. First the EURO, then the imminent announcement of a new Asian currency standard. The net effect: loads of global dollar reserves will be dumped in substitution for both currency standards. This anomaly in global affairs should augur for tremendous strength for gold and silver through the summer. Add to this factor the increasing nervousness of dollar, stock, and bond investors...and the PM's should explode over the summer.
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:22
G-Nutz (hey ORIS.) ID#42365: - Ill trade you some gold for some Ak-47's!!! hows two ounces per sound?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:19
Winston__A (Gold: Investment?) ID#244360:
Copyright © 1998 Winston__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - If I may be so bold as to preside over the issue with an opinion, gold is an excellent store of value ( it has never, as far as I know, become worthless ) which occationally becomes an excellent investment. This it becomes only as a function of extrordinary monopolistic manipulation of, and interference with, the normal search supply and demand have for equalibrium. Extrordinary, as gold stubbornly resists diversion from its traditional valuation relative to all other goods and services.
I very much concur with EJ, packing gold away in a corner is not putting capital to work, which is what, classically, investment means. ( Now it means simply: money coming to be denominated in a numerically greater fashion. This makes its holder feel wealthier, which is the capstone of Keynesian economic expansion: consumer confidence. ) Weather this numerically greater denomination is reflective of a true increase in value is another matter entirely. ) However, I am not saying all capital should be put work. Some, say 10%, should probably be packed into an invulnerable haven. In this catagory, gold is far and beyond the best of the best.
Comments? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:19
John Disney__A (Appease the gold GOD) ID#24135: - For Myrmidon -
Sometimes burnt offerings work ...H up 1/16.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:17
Lurker 777 (oris: ) ID#320226: - What brand should I look for? How much money should I invest? I read in the paper there is a gun show in 3 weeks but I am sure everone will be there buying before I have a chance.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:15
SDRer__A (Tolerant1, Sharefin, et.al. who wants to jump in... ) ID#280245:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - What are the BIS's Gold Francs doing here? What are SDR's doing here?
Trade Law Home Page
Merchant Shipping Act 1981
An Act to replace by amounts equivalent to special drawing rights of the International Monetary Fund the amounts in gold
francs specified in certain provisions limiting the liability of shipowners and others. [15 April 1981]
1. Substitution of special drawing rights in limitation provisions of Merchant Shipping Acts.
( 1 ) Section 503 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1894, as amended by the Merchant Shipping ( Liability of Shipowners and Others ) Act 1958, shall have effect subject to the provisions of subsections ( 2 ) and ( 3 ) below, being provisions consequential on a Protocol signed on 21st December 1979 amending the International Convention of 1957 relating to the limitation of the liability of owners of sea-going ships.
( 2 ) The amounts per ton to be taken into account under subsection ( 1 ) ( i ) and ( ii ) of the said section 503 shall, instead of being amounts respectively equivalent to 3,100 and 1,000 GOLDS FRANCS be amounts respectively equivalent to 206-67 and 66-67 special drawing rights.
( 3 ) The special drawing rights referred to above are the special drawing rights as defined by the International Monetary Fund,
and their equivalent shall be determined on the basis of the value of sterling--
( a ) if a limitation action is brought, on the date on which the limitation fund is constituted; and
( b ) in any other case, on the date of the judgment in question.
( 4 ) The amount per ton to be taken into account under section 2 of the Merchant Shipping ( Liability of Shipowners and
Others ) Act 1900, as amended by the said Act of 1958, shall, instead of being an amount equivalent to 1,000 gold francs, be an amount equivalent to 66-67 special drawing rights and subsection ( 3 ) above shall apply also for the purposes of this subsection. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:15
mozel (@T1) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Mozel: just a mere candle. News about bonfire sons of liberty:
The First Freemen Trial
From: The American Resistance Movement
What would you think if you managed a baseball team and one of your players had a 089 batting average for the season? That's better than what the Federal Government really got in the first Freemen trial.
Six people were tried on 56 counts. Five were found guilty of one count
each. One was found innocent of ALL COUNTS.
INNOCENT ON ALL CHARGES: Edwin Clark who spent over 600 days in 23 hour
a day lockdown was found innocent of all charges. The turning point was
probably his taking the stand and telling how the government had conspired to take his farm and drive him into financial ruin. After nearly two years of punishment, he went home last Friday to his family. He had seen his wife on only two brief occassions during the nearly two years. Speedy trial, huh ?
OUT OF JAIL ALREADY: Elwin Ward, the only other Freemen member present
at the trial did not take the stand. He was found guilty of one count of making a false claim to the IRS. I wonder how many IRS people have been found guilty of the billions of false claims they have made against the American people.
Here, though is the catch. He has ALREADY SERVED more than the
sentencing guidelines call for. That means that when he goes for sentencing, he will probably get only time served. Speedy trial, huh ?
When Elwin was interviewed by a TV crew after his release. He was asked whether he still supported the Freemen. He stated that he did and that all the Freemen ever wanted was a return to Constitutional government.
Oh, before I forget, the government never proved the claim was false
because they never tried to negotiate the instrument submitted. The government never proved the essential element of the charge !
THE OTHER FOUR: The other four ( NONE FROM MONTANA ) were found guilty of
ONE count each of being an accessory after the fact of the robbery of the NBC crew. Nothing was mentioned about charging the NBC crew with trespass. How in the ) ( *& ) ( * did it ever become an interstate FEDERAL crime to take property from a tresspasser in a sovereign state?
Of course, these four Freemen never even went to court. They were convicted with the assistance of Public Pretenders.
So, when all is said and done, the government spent hundreds of thousands
of dollars and endangered DOZENS OF LIVES for no purpose other than suppression of the freeman and their law school.
So what, then, is the bottom line. NOT ONE of the defendants were found
guilty of any bona fide crime despite the fact that the Feds created an armed standoff which could have resulted in deaths.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:14
farfel (@PROMETHEUS...hanging yourself with your own words...AGAIN!) ID#340302:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Promey said to Pete:
you attacked LGB ( because he dissed Another, I presume. He did
say he's buying gold today ) and you just reinforced the notion goldbugs are a bunch of nuts. Add the IDCIBM chanting and groupie adoration of Another. Well, would YOU look further if you were
considering perhaps adding a percent or so of gold to your
stock-overweighted portfolio? YOU DON'T CARE, YOU'RE BUYING
MORE, right?
F* says to Promey:
you have attacked Pete because he stood up to LGB's ad nauseum recitation of the gold short line and just reinforced the notion that Wall Street Bulls are a bunch of maniacs. Add the The Trend is Your Friend chanting and the groupie adoration of Abby Joseph Cohen, Wall Street Guru and soothsayer. None of this resonates with you one bit because, as far as your concerned, The Trend is Your Friend, right?
Thanks.
F* - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:13
tolerant1 (sharefin - 1:10) ID#31868: - Priceless! And a good evening to all. Nite...
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:10
sharefin (Joke time and back to the brush) ID#284255:
- - An ambitious yuppie finally decided to take a vacation. He booked himself on a Caribbean cruise and proceeded to have the time of his life -- at least for a while. A hurricane came unexpectedly. The ship went down and was lost instantly. The man found himself swept up on the shore of an island with no other people, no supplies, nothing. Only bananas and coconuts.
Used to four-star hotels, this guy had no idea what to do. So for the next four months he ate bananas, drank coconut juice, longed for his old life, and fixed his gaze on the sea, hoping to spot a rescue ship.
One day, as he was lying on the beach, he spotted movement out of the corner of his eye. It was a rowboat, and in it was the most gorgeous woman he had ever seen. She rowed up to him.
In disbelief, he asked her: Where did you come from? How did you get here?
I rowed from the other side of the island, she said. I landed here when my cruise ship sank.
Amazing, he said, I didn't know anyone else had survived. How many of you are there? You were really lucky to have a rowboat wash up with you.
It's only me, she said, and the rowboat didn't wash up; nothing did.
He was confused, Then how did you get the rowboat?
Oh, simple, replied the woman. I made it out of raw material that I found on the island. The oars were whittled from gum-tree branches, I wove the bottom from palm branches, and the sides and stern came from a eucalyptus tree.
But, but, that's impossible, stuttered the man. You had no tools or hardware -- how did you manage?
Oh, that was no problem, the woman said. On the south side of the island, there is a very unusual strata of exposed alluvial rock. I found that if I fired it to a certain temperature in my kiln, it melted into forgeable ductile iron. I used that for tools, and used the tools to make the hardware. But enough of that. Where do you live?
Sheepishly, the man confessed that he had been sleeping on the beach the whole time.
Well, let's row over to my place, then, she said. After a few minutes of rowing, she docked the boat at a small wharf. As the man looked onto shore, he nearly fell out of the boat. Before him was a stone walk leading to an exquisite bungalow painted in blue and white.
While the woman tied up the rowboat with an expertly woven hemp rope, the man could only stare ahead, dumbstruck.
As they walked into the house, she said casually, It's not much, but I call it home. Sit down, please; would you like to have a drink?
No, no, thank you, he said, still dazed. I can't take any more coconut juice.
It's not coconut juice, the woman replied. I have a still. How about a pina colada?
Trying to hide his continued amazement, the man accepted, and they sat down on her couch to talk.
After they had exchanged their stories, the woman announced, I'm going to slip into something more comfortable. Would you like to take a shower and shave? There is a razor upstairs in the cabinet in the bathroom.
No longer questioning anything, the man went into the bathroom. There in the cabinet was a razor made from a bone handle. Two shells honed to a hollow- ground edge were fastened to its tip, inside a swivel mechanism.
This woman is amazing, he mused. What next?
When he returned, the woman greeted him wearing nothing but vines - strategically positioned -- and smelling faintly of gardenias.
She beckoned for him to sit down next to her.
Tell me, she began suggestively, slithering closer to him, We've been out here for a very long time. You've been lonely. There's something I'm sure you really feel like doing right now, something you've been longing for all these months? You know....
She stared into his eyes.
He couldn't believe what he was hearing:
You mean. . ., he replied, I can log onto KITCO from here?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:10
oris (Lurker777\Do it today, tommorow it may be illegal..) ID#238422: - You can buy, but it will cost you more money.
If you seriously want to buy, buy today.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:10
Crystal Ball (@ Sharefin) ID#340392: - Thanks for the System Trader site...interesting. Good trading!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:04
tolerant1 (EJ- Good Evening to ya. Lurker777-the response of the Coward Erect is) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - rediculous. First off auto-weapons were not used in the horrible event in Arkansas. In fact in the United States not one registered automatic machine gun has ever been used in a crime. Anyone who can find evidence of such to prove me wrong please do so.
I wish one of the esteemed journalists who are ever vigilant would ask the Coward Erect about the AK-47s entering the United States in containers controlled by the Chinese Communist Government in certain harbors, hint, hint, Alabama and California. I can provide case numbers and copies of files if you would like. I hear no mention of this in the media.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:03
oris (Fiveliter) ID#238422: - Honestly, I thought F-16 is gunless. I was wrong.
Thanks for correcting me.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:01
sharefin (Email chatter) ID#284255:
- - XAU Update.
http://www.iqc.com/chart/default.asp?symbol=$XAU.X&chart1=ma&period=120&time=30m
The XAU hit it's price target yesterday morning and now has completed wave 1 and 2 of it's correction wave. Wave 3's are the biggies, so the correction should start accelerating now.
I would expect that we would get a hard bottom in the high 70's and then go into an indecision triangular pattern.
XAU is way ahead of POG and needs to take a breather. POG also needs consolidation before the next up move.
Barry, gold forecaster updated: http://www.wavechart.com/systemtrader/gold.htm
Short term a sell, intermediate term still a buy, but deteriorating. Long term is still a buy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Armey: 'Shameless' Clinton Is Poor Role Model
02:46 p.m Apr 07, 1998 Eastern
By Jackie Frank
WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - House Majority Leader Dick Armey said Tuesday he stands by his belief that President Clinton's conduct would warrant his resignation and has made him poor role model for the nation's children.
''If it were me that had documented personal conduct along the lines of
the president's, I would be so filled with shame that I would resign,''
the Texas Republican said he told high school students outside Dallas
Monday.
''I stand by my remarks, which reinforced the importance of personal
responsibility. I could not let these children think this president is a
good role model,'' Armey said in a statement issued by his office.
Armey noted that some have interpreted his remarks to be a call for
Clinton to quit. His spokeswoman Michele Davis said he did not call for
Clinton's resignation and confirmed further remarks as reported by The
Dallas Morning News.
The newspaper reported that Armey said carried the discussion further
Monday and told the students: ''This president won't do that ( resign ) .
His basic credo in life is 'I will do whatever I can get away with.'''
He called Clinton ''a shameless person,'' and accused him of devoting
himself entirely to pursuing his own physical comforts.
''His ideology begins and ends with himself. And frankly, my own guess
is the man spends very little time and effort in his life pursuing
anything other than his own physical comforts,'' the newspaper reported
Armey said.
The White House dismissed the insulting remarks.
Barry Toiv, a White House spokesman traveling with Clinton in Kansas
City, Mo., said: ''The president is focused on doing his job ... the
president doesn't really have time to listen to what Mr. Armey has to
say.''
While shaking hands with a crowd in Kansas City the president was asked if he had a reply to Armey. When he said nothing, a reporter asked if he'd like to tell Armey to have a nice day. Clinton responded, ''Have a nice day.''
Armey has been an outspoken critic of the president but stopped short of
calling for Clinton's impeachment. He did say the president had
squandered his authority.
''I think in the end, he's going to end up a heartbroken man who left
nothing but a trail of heartbreak behind him,'' Armey said. ''So I feel
very badly for him.''
His latest comments mark the strongest Republican attack against the
president since a federal judge last week threw out Paula Jones' sexual
harassment lawsuit against Clinton.
Last month, he said he believed White House aide Kathleen Willey's
claims that the president groped her. He also said Republican leaders
approved additional funds for the House Judiciary Committee to handle
the anticipated report on the president from Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, a contradiction of other leaders who said the $1.3 billion was to strengthen oversight of the Justice Department.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The unbelievable silence was broken in Texas yesterday by Dick Armey. I heard on the radio this morning that he called for Slick to resign in a talk to an assembly of school kids.
You can take that to the bank. First, there's only 2-1/2 years left in his administration and I don't think Congress wants to spend the lion's share of that time dealing with an impeachment proceeding. Second, he likes being the President too much; who wouldn't with the free gropes and exposures as perks. Third, as I've said before, he has no moral compass so he believes in his heart, as small as it is, that he has done nothing improper.
He will find on January 20, 2001 that the White House is the greatest fortress on the earth. As soon as this term is over, his cadre of supporters will vanish faster than Rehnquist can administer the Oath of Office to President Powell.
Okay! Here's an idea! Let's make mandatory castration part of every Inauguration Day henceforth! No! Wait! All members of Congress and the Senate must accept the same, um, fate...
Sound good?
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 01:00
PH in LA (Replies...(mostly)) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Just returned from a day of sailing and after catching up on today's posts offer the following replies: ( even though it is late for many. )
ALBERICH:
While I do feel that ANOTHER has a real-world identity who is found in a University setting that does not mean that I would expect or demand that he speak and act like one while here in cyberspace at Kitco. That disconection from his own personal identity might very well be a small part of the attraction that brings him here.
When you write re. BIS and LBMA: The way he talked about these two institutions indicates true knowledge resulting from experience I say: My real-world ANOTHER serves on thinktanks, gives symposiums, testifies before congress, etc. He also has contacts and knowledge that enabled him to presage the Belgium CB sale. Very real-world experience in my book.
Anyone:
Haven't we seen a list of the board of directors at the BIS? If anyone ( SDRer perhaps? ) still has this info, would you please post it again.
LGB:
I have no intention of entering into any further debate with you on ANOTHER. Your own posts on nearly every subject ( not just ANOTHER's ) reveal that you rarely actually consider what anyone else presents before firing off your shoot-from-the-hip responses. Many of us come away with much insight after reading and thinking long and hard on ANOTHER's what-for-you are riddles If you would give the riddles a little more thought, perhaps they would cease to be so incomprehensible to you. Have you ever wondered how stupid and self-centered it seems to some of us to expect ANOTHER to detail in plain English a CB sale before it is announced just to please you? For the most part, the appearance of any other opinion other than your own is but an excuse for you to mount your soapbox and spout preconceived opinions as if they were truth incarnate ( ie. no data, no reasons; just opinion, which for you is objective reality ) . Your comments almost never have anything to do with an exchange of ideas since you give the ideas of others almost no thought; rather they are related-in-name-only monologues which you think are very clever. With such a modus operendi you may be sure that your opinions will remain encased in concrete, where in my opinion most of them belong...at the bottom of a river somewhere. In closing, please allow me to quote Allen ( USA ) : No hard feelings, just a little feedback, if it is of any interest to you.
Jonesy:
Thank you for your thoughtful reaction to my post. I am glad if it made a difference to you. Your own certainly did to me. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:58
223 (Mozel, one last, last off topic post for the night.) ID#26669:
Copyright © 1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Ah, my friend, you should change your handle to Cu' Chulainn, after the great Irish hero who never turned down a fight even though it meant killing his friend Ferdia and in the end dying for his honor. Or maybe Johnson, after the mountain man who made war on the entire Crow nation.
You don't have the money nor the power to change world events but seem destined to spit in the eye of fate, eh? Unless you're actually one of the Saudi royal family, or one of the Rockerfellers or a Rothchild in which case, maybe you will give a glorious battle and we'll read about you in the history books right next to the story of Nathan Hale? If so, could you give me biography publication rights?
As for us little people it is still our job to be somwhere else when the bombs start falling and you giants start killing one another. ; )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:56
Crystal Ball (@ Nick at night) ID#340392: - Touche' !! As Bro' Einstein used to say, it all depends on your relative point of view. I respect your opinion, mate, and wish you only success. As a goldbug, my sentiments are positive for the metals, but my poor cognitive self has seen gold and XAU fail miserably all too often after nipping at the 200 day moving average. Besides, I'm not done accumulating the precious yellow yet. Let's keep 'er down just a wee bit longer.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:55
Lurker 777 (Warning OFF subject! GUNS) ID#320226: - I saw something on the news about clinton banning AK47 rifles.
Does anyone own a AK47? How much are they? Can we still buy them? Who makes the best ones?
Silver bullets. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:54
EJ (tolerant1 & Myrmidon) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - tolerant1, point taken. I was talking dollars while you were talking gold. During the time in question, i.e., the past 20 years or so, you made more $ invested in the stock market than in gold whether you converted those dollars to gold in the end or not. Come to think of it, that's exactly what I'm doing now. Converting my $ stock profits into gold. You're right: there may be a time when dollars are worth much less than they are today, in which case keeping them in paper is a bad plan. Gold is more likely to hold value than the dollar in the next bunch of years, you'll get no argument from me there. But then we could get into this whole thing about the USA in the new world economy and how the USA is dominating again in the Info Age just as in the Industrial Age, and maybe the fun has just begun ( as a European or Asian what they think of Microsoft. To an American it's a monopoly; to anyone outside the USA, MS is an imperialist power ) . Maybe we'll get into it tomorrow. I gotta go to bed.
Myrmidon, you may have missed my earlier posts. After a little more than 10 years I'm out of the stock market as of this week for the most part, got mostly gold and cash now. Some might be able to enter the market now and ride it up to 10,000 or maybe more. But I ain't got the nerve. It's a purely speculative market, now. Of course, there are stocks out there ( low beta, high alpha ) that will do their thing based on how a corporation is performing, stock market crash or not. I still got some of those. Got no Coca Cola or Gillette. Nope.
G'Nite.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:53
tolerant1 (SDR_er) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - In addition to the world of PVC extruding, you should look at PWN. It is a stock to watch and cultivate. In the short run I believe that PWN ( on NASDAQ ) will outshine RYG. Just a thought. In addition all that glitters is not gold, PVC or found in a pawn shop, TTRIF on NASDAQ, very interesting stock.
One problem of many that I see with the Chinese moving forward is their stagnation, vacillation, which is a by-product or penchant if you will for their racial purity. Like the rest of humanity they cling to the past. Tell me if you can, in the last one hundred years, which Chinese has been recognized for his/her influence not found at the end of a rifle.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:52
oris (My brother John Disney and Larryn) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I have no idea, it's my brother John who can answer you...
Brother John, are you buying migs to deal with this
guy...oh, man, what's his handle...you know, the guy
who asks Bart to limit your posts or something like
that...or was it something about Bart using his teeth
to control you, my brother..?
I don't like this guy's attitude.
Brother, if you need any military assistance, let me
know, I'm here for you. I got 300 Kremlin guards for
sale, good boys, they are missing action...got tired
of protecting Lenin's mummy...they want some real stuff.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:52
jims (Crystal Ball) ID#253418:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I've been following silver since the EARLY 70's, I too am aware of the summer dumdrums for the metal. One other significant time period is April 15th - dead ahead. There have been some very good rallies off this date.
Besides I for the life of me can not see silver going to $5 if stocks are falling to new record lows almost by the week. See report a few miniutes ago here on KITCO. Hell I think silver stocks at comex will get to 5 before silver will see 5.
Have to disagree with you seasonal - in fact it may be right but the pullback in August this year will come from a higher level following a rally that begins in April and gather momentum through the early summer as we have weather problems with the new crops. There are almost always weather problems associated with the new corps at one point or another in the planting season. - coming soon to a continent near you. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:50
larryn__A (EJ, RJ, and LBG hang in there.) ID#316232:
Copyright © 1998 larryn__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - I admire your courage for taking on the gold-is-always-right crowd. To mention that there has been poor times to own gold is not very acceptable in this forum although history is full of such times.
For anyone who wants to check the price movement of gold over the past 13 years ( my data started in 1985 ) will find that there is an average of four cycles per year where gold moves $20-40 and then reverses. Some movements are much more. To buy and hold as it plunges $20 and funds drop perhaps 30% is not my idea of smart.
There have been many periods of recent history where gold sucked. There will always be paper money for those times. The price of gold is an inverse measurement of the value of that paper. No modern culture could exist using just gold. GET REAL. ( I'm quoting Troy Aikman for your 49er or Packer fans )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:43
tolerant1 (mozel) ID#31868: - Greetings. I hope all is well with you and yours.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:42
Crystal Ball (@ APH) ID#340392: - Good play selling silver here! Sure as sunshine silver will see $5.05 ( minimum downside target ) this summer. Don't forget, friends, gold and silver have seasonal lows in the June - August timeframe. Get hedged now or be sorry later.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:41
mozel (@223 & FDR is my nominee to the gold hater's Hall of Shame) ID#153102: -
1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
One of my disagreements with Mozel was that he believes we have some God
given onus to change things. I on the other hand, just believe that the
good guys must only strive to outlive the fools.
Hmmm. Yes, the state of being in his image imposes obligations. All that is necessary for evil men to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
To do nothing to establish justice is to be accessory to crime.
Be kind to fools. Outlive the wicked. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:40
SDRer__A (Backgrounder on the Zhu Rongji's Financial Team...) ID#280245: - Zhu's technocrats
Loyalty aside, they have strong credentials
By Tim Healy and David Hsieh / Beijing
ZHU RONGJI MAY HAVE RACKED UP an impressive record as chief helmsman of China's economy, but he has not been steering alone. Since he was summoned to Beijing seven years ago as vice-premier by Deng Xiaoping, Zhu has assembled a high-powered team of senior financial and economic managers to help him. Its most prominent members:
http://www.pathfinder.com/asiaweek/98/0313/cs5.html
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:37
fiveliter (Oris-F-16) ID#341312: - The F-16 carries the same M61A1 Vulcan cannon as the others ( wasn't sure on the type so I checked the web ) which it would need even more since its designed to be the ultimate dogfighter. It's light, small, cheap, and extremely maneouverable. That cobra thing the Mig-29 does is something else, isn't it? I don't think any other fighter can do that or even come close! Hadn't heard about the A-10's. They wouldn't be that dumb, would they? Hard to believe anything else could fulfill that role as well as the A-10. I'm sure all this is gold related somehow. ;- )
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:37
Nick@C (Difference of opinion) ID#393224: - Isn't it strange how two people can look at the same graph and come up with diametrically opposite opinions. Crystal ball posted a site for an ABX graph on Apr 07 ( 22:37 ) and commented that ABX was screaming for a short. I look at the same graph and think that ABX will consolidate just a bit downward and will then take off to the upside. Vive la difference!!
http://pages.prodigy.com/option.force/iv-fram0.htm - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:36
larryn__A (migs) ID#316232: - What in the hell would RSA need migs for? Is Zambia attacking again? Air cover against the Boors? Mandela need an airshow? No wonder the citizens are starving.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:31
A.Goose (Eligible gold and silver stocks drop again today. Only 1,440 contracts needed to ...) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - wipe out the eligible Comex Gold stocks. A measely $44,251,860.30.
New York-April 7-FWN--COMEX ESTIMATED VOLUMES
TOTAL ESTIMATED VOLUMES
Gold 26,000
Silver 13,000
H.G. Copper 10,000
Silver
TOTAL REGISTERED
172,041 0 33,820,925
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
-574,181 0 53,182,905
COMBINED TOTAL
-402,140 0 87,003,830
Gold
TOTAL REGISTERED
475,361 0 203 -203 0 475,158
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
148,278 0 5,207 -5,207 0 143,071
COMBINED TOTAL
623,639 0 5,410 -5,410 0 618,229
Date: Tue Apr 07 1998 23:11
JTF ( G'Nite All! RJ, D.A. where are you? ) ID#57232:
need to refute F. Veneroso's conclusions
Good point, I am very interested in understanding the way this ( Comex and LBME ) operation works. I will not pretend to match Veneroso expertise in understanding the complications of this hidden world. I am looking for simple, understandable explanations that make sense out of the complicated. It is good of you to mention his analysis and I need to think on his view and how it may fold in to what seems to be occuring.
I would be thrilled if someone very familiar with his work would present data showing just where I am going wrong. I am eager to learn. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:30
Poorboys (Anything better than Gold ---Oh My --Down to 301--Not 401) ID#224149: - EB---And who said –Go Piggy Go ---March The Marks ----Pull up the Pal PL ---No bad Wolves on the horizon –Away to train the Easter bunny
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:29
oris (zeke) ID#238422: - Thanks, Zeke. I'm not an expert at all, and probably
was thinking more about book value of
Mig-29 and F-16. I have an impreassion that both machines
are in competition with each other on the world weapons
market. This topic started with 22 migs presumably going
to RSA, which is interesting.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:27
Myrmidon (Well EJ, you want returns?) ID#347127: -
The DOW has been giving them plentifully. Throw a dart to any DOW stock and 2 years down the road you will be SO SORRY YOU DID.
I guess some people ( like you ) don't get it. DOW is expensive,
Gold is cheap.
On the other hand, you said that you are young, that is good,
you have so much time to learn.... - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:27
tolerant1 (EJ) ID#31868: - You have to decide which conversation you wish to engage in. Gold as a store of value, hands down you lose, or, during the time frame wherein people believe that paper which has no value other than that which is set by a bunch of lying, murdering, criminals, and provides them the false pretense of wealth which delivers their children into servitude.
You tell me. I enjoy our conversations, but let us each agree on a starting point. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:16
EJ (themissinglink: 1928? Hey, I'm not THAT old! I figure I want to see ) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - a return on my investment sooner than 70 years. So is that the Kitco gold investment strategy? Buy a bunch of gold no matter what the markets are doing and wait as long as necessary until you get another 1929 crash? I'm fairly new to this group. How long has everyone been waiting? Since gold was at $390 two years ago? That'd be too bad bacause the stock market's really CRANKED in the past two years. Now there are clear signs that the market's at a top. RJ will tell you that. Anyone will. And gold at around $300 is at a low. Potentially, money that gets burned on re-entry into a stock market on a long downcycle may run to gold, at least until it looks safe to come out. Will the stock market crash or just fizzle out? Not with a bang but a whimper? Who knows.
When it's bottomed out, do you stay in gold? Not me, brother. Capitalism is in the building business, and corporations are the workers. I'll invest in them, and I don't mean railroads--this ain't 1928. Gold is in the hording business. Builds nothing. Contributes nothing. Gold is in every way a lousy long term investment. But we may have an opportunity in the next year or so to preserve and even make a few bucks in gold. Thanks for listening.
-EJ - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:11
zeke (@Preacher--also Oris and Fiveliter) ID#307271:
Copyright © 1998 zeke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved - Thanks Preacher. I can go to bed now knowing that a late morning assessment will be necessary.
Oris and Fiveliter: You guys are comparing Oranges and Apples. Having worked in R&D aerodynamics on several fighters, including the F-15,F-16, F-111 and others, I can tell you the Mig-29 is more in a class with the Strike Eagle which is late 60's technology compared to the Mig which rolled out in '77. The Eagle is the only bird to ever shoot down both the Mig 29 and the Foxbat. The F-16 was simply developed with one instead of two Pratt & Whitney F-100 engines, making it lighter and much cheaper ( sellable to 3rd world governments ) . The only similarity between the F-16 and the Mig-29 is the fly-by-wire control systems. Also, cannons don't have to mounted in the bay like the gatlin-gun you see in the F-111's they can be externally mounted to almost any of these birds in pods. Few fighters in operation today will land after meeting
an old 60's vintage F-15 Strike Eagle ( with state-of-the-art avionics ) at Angels 60. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:09
Shek (Yardeni) ID#287279: - Yardeni's speach at Bank for International Settlements Annual Meeting on 4-7-98 in Geneva, Switzerland.
Very, very interesting!
http://www.webcom.com/~yardeni/public/y_19980407.pdf
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:06
tolerant1 (EJ) ID#31868: - O'tay, if you can pick a time, so can I, let us start in 1970, just 12 years earlier. $1,000,000.00, ready, get set, go!
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:06
Selby () ID#286230: - EJ: why not use 1996.
- Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:02
Myrmidon (strange things are happening..) ID#347127: -
Look on top of the page the price of gold and what you see? -0.00 !!
Do we have a minus zero? or it is my imagination? - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:02
tolerant1 (JTF - check out this site) ID#31868: - http://www.andover.net - you can get email every day which is very useful.
In addition, I will have to dig and remember where I saw it but there is a program that allows open command usage of DOS within WIN95 and I am sure you will find it useful, works right off the desktop like WIN95 is not even running but give you control and the freedom to do what you want.
I keep posting this stuff for ya cause I know how frustrating it is to be used to one thing and have to learn/move/understand/get comfortable with another. - Date: Wed Apr 08 1998 00:00
robnoel__A (EJ to view gold as an investment is your first problem,it's insurance,or as I like to say protection) ID#411112: -
against idiots,just because you did not have a car accident last year,does it make any sence to cancel your policy this year.....view it as insurance it will not let you down,never has never will
