With regard to the conspiracy bit, I remember going off the 'deep end' with revelations about gold and the LBMA, months ago. It took me a while to realize that there probably was no organized conspiracy, and that it really did not matter anyway. It is hard to explain that -- but perhaps the best way is to say that is that world-wide conspiracies have a tendency of not surviving very long, due to basic characteristics of human nature. It is hard to make diverse groups of individuals to work closely together for any length of time -- look at the United Nations!

Another question however, is how the ice got there in the first place -- certainly not by comet collisions with the moon. And, why do we find about this now, after so many years? I suspect that NASA knows far more about the moon than we are being told. How about mars?

Regardless, I do not think we have heard the last of this. There may very well come a day when all of those low-cost factories start up again - later when the money starts flowing. That day will not be pleasant for us, I think.

Where is your desire for the elimination of debt, and control of the money supply?

What I was getting at with BC is the power of the special prosecutor versus other prosecutors. I gather what you are saying is that there are no well-defined rules, and all that matters is who has the deepest pockets, special prosecutor or no. That is a pretty damning assessment of our system of justice, though you might be right. I would guess that that statment of yours would be more damning than anything I said today. But -- I do remember the Inslaw fiasco -- I think that was Justice and Treasury.

By the way, if you are right that the deepest pocket wins, I would guess that the president would win. I think K Starr is outclassed when it comes to lawyerly intrigue and sublety by his numerous and apparently well-paid antagonists. Some are even movie producers, with fictional scripts at their fingertips. BC still has not lost control of the press, even though the tide has shifted significantly.

Looks like Meltdown 2 is picking up where she left off last night--RED, RED, and MORE RED! God help us if the wage component of the jobs report tomorrow is .6% or higher and new jobs over 300,000. The Bond market is getting real nervous now that 6% has been surpassed and successfully tested, and will quickly take out 6.25% if the jobs numbers are anywhere near what I think they will be! Joe Battipaglia still looking for 5% long bond and 9,600 Dow in 98! Michael Metz thinks the Dow is already reflecting a 5 1/2% long bond and will tank big time once it becomes clear that we're on our way to 6 1/2%+ instead! I agree! Quite frankly I'll be even more worried if Battipaglia is right and we head down to 5% on the long bond as this will definitely signal to me that DEFLATION, DEPRESSION, DEFAULT headed our way! Methinks China protests too much that it will not devalue the Yuan! From what I saw on ABC News tonight, it's only a matter of time which is FAST RUNNING OUT! I am now 90% in cash, gold and cheese! 5% in gold stocks, and 5% in gold calls, OEX puts, and T-BOND puts! LET HER RIP!

While I have your attention, can you tell me if Kenneth Starr as special prosecutor has the right to subpoena Monic Lewinsky's former lawyers notes? Is that protected by lawyer-client priveledge, regardless of the source of the subpoena?

I have another question. The leak of Clinton's sworn testimony regarding Monica Lewinsky seems to be timed to benefit Clinton the most, not K. Starr. Is it possible that Clinton's army of lawyers -- in particular that Bennett individual -- is smart enough to leak the sworn testimony, and make it look like Kenneth Starr's people leaked it? I think so!

Lastly, I have a comment. BC testified that he talked to Vernon Jordan about Monica needing a job, but it was his secretary who actually carried the deed out. If I did that with my secretary, and I gave the excuse that my secretary carried out my request -- so that I was not responsible -- I would guess that the Judge would consider my claim ridiculous. I guess BC is again above the law. What do you think will happen -- is BC going to weasel out of this one too?

WetGold,Mooney, all: I think WetGold's post today regarding the Dinar is by far is the most significant Kitco post for the month.

The Moslem nations/people represent 1 billion individuals or so, and they could very well bail out Indonesia -- the world's 4th most populous nation. If that deposed Moslem prime minister of Turkey is able to launch the Dinar, that could also be the foundation of a new gold-based Moslem currency.

I think we owe our Moslem/Arab friends more respect that we give them for several reasons:

First, they are very values/family oriented, in ways that many Westerners have lost.

Secondly, despite the press, most are not terrorists and warlike, as we have been taught -- implicitly. Just think of all the wars where the Moslem peoples are victims, not the aggressors.

Thirdly, they have strict laws against debt and usury. We Kitcoites all know where our credit/debt - oriented culture is leading us, but not most of the rest of the Western peoples. I suspect that most of the Moslem world sees what we are doing to ourselves with our debt, far better than we see ourselves.

The human civilization is slowly moving toward a new acceptance of much of what the Moslem world holds in high value -- a need for rebirth in family values, a need to reduce excessive use of debt, etc. I do not agree with the treatment of women in the fundamentalist Moslem religious groups, and probably would not support other Moslem practices if I knew about them. However, if we -- the Western world -- do not voluntarily adapt some of the most desireable of the Moslem practices -- we may be forced to adopt more stringent Moslem practices many years from now.

It is our free will to choose the right path, and it is much more than the Dinar we are talking about. We are talking about a cycle of human civilization that is probably more than several hundreds years in length.

For anyone who likes to ramble inanely at length, the new headers should at least be helpful in making them feel important.

If anyone has any concerns or questions about this new policy, please let me know at bkitner@kitco.com.

To Midas: Once again I ask you to refrain from posting messages that contravene this guideline. I'll re-iterate what JTF has said that our discussion group is international in scope and attracting knowledgeable contributors from other countries is absolutely encouraged. Remarks like the one you made this morning serve no purpose other than to dissuade newcomers from stepping in.

To OLD GOLD: On Sat Feb 28 1998 20:38 You said: ..BTW, being Jewish myself, I feel free to tell it like it is. ..

It doesn't work like that Mr. GOLD. The rule applies to everybody regardless of race, religion or ethnic background.

The Gold/silver ratio stands then at 46.94:1 compared to 47.02:1 yesterday, but still apparently tracing out a large interim top once again below the 50-51:1 level of two months ago. Platinum's premium over gold is quietly expanding at the same time, from yesterday's $86.80 to today's $88.20.

Given the comments made by the head of the Portuguese central bank noted here yesterday, we shall continue to recommend sales of gold vs. purchases of silver as the central banks continue to offer gold on any and all rallies creating enormous supplies, while silver production falls as mines producing silver remain unprofitable. As an aside, we note that the bullish consensus figures for crude oil have fallen to single digits; that is, less than 10% of those analysts covering the crude oil market are bullish at this time; 90% or more are bearish. Extremes such as this are rare, and very often mark important lows. Those of our clients who are bearish of crude should take very serious note of this circumstance and at the very least reduce their exposure... perhaps materially.

Source: The Gartman Letter March 5 1998

'Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.'

---- George Washington

Why do we no longer deserve leaders like him? Only in times of crisis? Why not before the crisis for a change?

Donald -- any ideas?

I suspect that Intel's problems are minor relative to what may be happening behind the scenes. We should be careful not to take our own 'gloom and doom' stuff too seriously about the US markets and miss bigger problems elsewhere.

I don't have a clue what is happening.

Seriously, I don't think there is any organized conspiracy manipulating our 'fiat' currencies -- or the price of gold. I think it is a number of events that just happened to come together -- where a number of powerful interest groups all want gold to go in the same direction.

1 ) The Europeans want the dollar strong ( cheap gold ) for the pre-euro launch.

2 ) European cb's -- other than France and Germany -- want to sell gold because they will have no control over gold sales for the EURO when it comes on line -- only France and Germany

2' ) Other CB's have sold gold, because it has 'no investment value', or have loaned it to make money in dollars.

3 ) SEAsian countries are selling gold due to their financial crises.

4 ) Gold bear speculators have piled in to take advantage of the CB gold sales/gold loans.

Then there are the actions of the gold producers -- which I don't profess to understand.

And -- after all of that, the gold bear does seem to be unraveling, and bottoming.

If this is a conservative approach, I can only point out that it works. Those who trade the derivatives Gold markets ( notably futures ) will no doubt have their own methods, and if they have been doing it for a while, they will also have expunged emotion from their trading and be very disciplined.

If they aren't, they will fit the description of the futures trader who had a million in the market. Only problem is he started with 2 million.

The $US Gold P&F chart ( $1x3 ) is worth watching too. Any upturn this side of $290 will be interesting but, on any measure, One cannot be comfortable on the long side until Gold breaks above $300 and STAYS there.

Could someone enlighten us please?

But -- as we all know -- no one can hold back natural market forces forever. And as Gary North ( I think ) once said, some the best investment decisions one can make are made based on the economic distortions generated by public figures ( powers that be ) . George Soros also said the same thing in one of his books. The trick is to decipher the mystery, and wait.

You are a more short term person than I. What makes you think that Silver is about ready to take off again?

away...to prepare the rocket ship for take-off.....for I must fly alone, alas, never having been invited to ride the smokemobile..... ( sad ) ...and the smoke-maker is *shoooshing* outside LA ( 2hours ) in about 8-15ft of packed, well-groomed, lightly dinged from LA proper ( smog ) , powder ....ohmy ( ! ) ..............................go copper. ( ! ) ( ! ) ( ! ) [{:-§} )

Éß99‰only25‰ofthetime... ( huh? ) ©

What we sorely need right now is more Japanese posters -- we have not had one for months. It is our loss if we discourage international dialogue.

Fortunately, we have Jin to give us insight, but he is unable to penetrate the mysterious internal actions of Japan. I for one have not been able to reconcile the thriftness of the Japanese I have known with what I am reading about their government. I have a friend who just went to Japan -- I hope to talk to him in a few weeks when he returns.

My intuitive guess is that we underestimate the Japanese. One reason is that they only go after criminals when they have overwhelming evidence -- sort of like having the trial before the arrest. Hence, what we may be seeing in the news is after the fact, and that much more has been done behind the scenes than meets the eye. I have known Orientals for over thirty five years -- and we have much to learn from them.

Do you think a US president would be any more successful at controlling government bureaucracy than president Hashimoto of Japan? My hat is off to him for attacking the bureacratic medusa. Perhaps we will find out he is winning! And, perhaps we will learn how to do the same, and prevent a similar fate.

I have one last point to make. Do you think that the American people could pull together enough to keep a financial collapse from occuring for nearly 10 years? I find the Japaness economic system astounding, even if I would not wish to emulate it. There is alot to be said about the diversity and stregnth of the American economic system -- and I hope our complex governmental rules and regulations do not eventually destroy it.

away...to read more of oldgolds same-ole-same-ole-blah-blah-blah... ( zzzzzz ) ... ( skip ) .... ( skip ) .... ( broken ) .............. ( ugh ) ...

Éß©

Perhaps someone here can enlighten us on the craziness of other market bulls before the bubble finally bursts.

There will be two problems for the gold bug Tsunami surfer -- one will be when to jump out to avoid the equity market crash, and the other will be when it is safe to jump back in -- after the crash. My guess is that the latter will be easier -- simply because we have been in a gold bear for so long.

I would also try to save cash on the side, and buy gold bullion on the way down, if we did have a full-blown gold bear during a market crash. Would be a real bargain at a market implosion-induced bottom -- even more that now.

In my opinion, IMHO, the gold market is at risk -- equities and bullion -- until the 'powers that be' have nothing to gain by trying to prop the equity markets up. As I recall in 1929, the best time to buy gold and gold stocks was after the crash, not before. There may be analogues to this in SEAsia right now -- but I don't really know.

Gold bullion is a different matter. That might survive a dollar and market crash -- but AG is a pro at keeping markets afloat, and now has a powerful tool to push gold down ( for a time ) by using derivatives. I can give you no solid proof ( like QED mathwise ) that this will happen, just a hunch based on the performance of gold bullion over the last two years.

If you are willing to take a wild ride -- gold bug surfers only -- you might be able to ride the gold stocks up during the uncertainty before an equity market crash, and make a fortune. However, you need to jump off before the 300 foot equity market Tsunami crashes!

Long - term, gold will go up -- and returns on gold stock investment will be even better after a market equity crash -- for those who saved their cash.

I am going to hang on my gold investments for now, but I will not buy more until I see evidence for a rally, or gold revisits $280/oz.

The ony behavior that will cause me to sell my current gold investments will be a full-blown US dollar currency crisis.

Hope your family is safe! It will be our turn eventually ( years? ) -- the crime rise of 25x worries me -- would happen here too. Too many people here who consider support from the government a right, and not a priveledge. Also in the 20's and 30's many people here lived off the land. Not any more. Just wait till the US government has no money!

The CB's have apparently loaned out 8,000 tonnes, according to Frank Veneroso, and could theoretically loan out 8,000 tonnes more if necessary if we had a real financial conflagration. If something like this happens, I think we will have some warning in the behavior of the US dollar.

Personally I doubt a full-blown financial crisis, and expect the only bearish forces to be coming from SEAsia, as you say. I would guess then that we will not go below around $280/oz. Agreed?

Rule #2 - It's all small stuff.

Very glad to have you back.

Elizabeth Hill Silver Deposit: Munni Munni Leases

PART: A

DATE: 1998/3/5

EAST COAST MINERALS NL 1998-03-05 ASX-SIGNAL-G

HOMEX - Sydney

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

ELIZABETH HILL SILVER DEPOSIT: MUNNI MUNNI LEASES ( VIA KARRATHA W.A )

East Coast Minerals N.L. ( ECM ) 70%

Legend Mining NL ( LEG ) 30%

The following announcement has been prepared to inform the ASX and

shareholders about the Joint Venture activity in respect to the

Elizabeth Hill silver deposit at Munni Munni.

DRILL RESULTS

After examination of all drilling results ( announced to the Australian

Stock Exchange on 11/02/1998 ) the consulting geologist noted that some

results did not conform to his drill log noted, together with visible

silver sighted in the core ( the re-assayed results were determined by

Fire Assay Method F660 ) .

The re-assays of these sections produced some changes in the

previously announced drill results ( see table ) .

An example of the coarse grained or nugget effect can be seen in Hole

1, sample 1.5m - 2.25m, which previously assayed at 504 g/t but the

most recent assay of 57,150 g/t is in keeping with the consulting

geologists notes in the core log book.

Hole No. Section ( m ) Previous New Ag Ag average Ag high

reported average ( g/t ) intersection

average

1 0-3.75 0.9% 2.03% 20,300 g/t 57,150 g/t

4.5-6.0 0.16% 0.16% 1,600 g/t 1,700 g/t

Alternatively

0-6.0 0.61% 1.31% 13,100 g/t 57,150 g/t

2 0-3.0 0.19% 0.31% 3,100 g/t 9,270 g/t

15.9-22.6 0.35% 0.36% 3,600 g/t 15,700 g/t

3* 0-3.9 0.83% 1.54% 15,400 g/t 28,055 g/t

9.6-12.2 0.81% 0.81% 8,100 g/t 9,080 g/t

4* 0-4.8 0.77% 0.86% 8,600 g/t 15,465 g/t

4.8-8.2 0.35% 0.35% 3,500 g/t 3,584 g/t

5 0-4.4 0.09% 0.43% 4,300 g/t 6,360 g/t

6 0-6.6 0.03% 0.75% 7,500 g/t 19,190 g/t

7* 0-11.1 0.42% 0.60% 6,000 g/t 12,950 g/t

8 8.1-11.0 1.23% 1.23% 12,300 g/t 36,430 g/t

9 13.5-17.0 Grossly

anomalous

10 4.5-5.2 2.49% 2.49% 24,900 g/t 24,915 g/t

11 4.4-5.1 0.36% 4.27% 42,700 g/t 42,730 g/t

12* 2.9-3.7 0.24% 0.24% 2,400 g/t 2,369 g/t

Hole 9 has been especially affected by poor core recovery. Therefore

an accurate representative assay of this silver section is not

possible.

*Holes 3,4,7 and 12 ended in mineralisation when the holes were

abandoned due to the excessive core loss.

BULK TESTING

The Joint Venture partners reviewed progress of the significant

metallurgical work being undertaken on the the bulk sample. This work

is being undertaken to determine the best way to process the ore and

to provide a higher confidence level in relation to the silver

content given the difficulties in drilling due to poor recovery of

core.

The considerable time taken on sample testing and recovery procedures

on the bulk sample has been a learning curve; however the information

gained through the process will be invaluable.

The Elizabeth Hill ore is complex and unique with the presence of

native silver in lump and wire form adding complexity to the problems

of crushing and processing. The work has been slow to progress;

however is nearing completion.

Independent Metallurgical Consultants have been working on the

bulk sampling in order to determine which of the gravity/float

methods is best suited to optimise silver recovery.

Two independent laboratories will report their final findings.

Options include:

( a ) Treatment on site by purchasing or hiring equipment.

( b ) Selling concentrate locally or off-shore.

( c ) Treatment in other plants.

CONTINUING EXPLORATION PROGRAM

The new program to further explore the silver deposit will consist of:

1. Lowering the de-watering level from 90m to 110m.

2. Replace old head frame with new 11m head frame, winder, skip

and install railway lines to use 1 tonne trucks, enabling significant

hoisting and bulk handling capacity to be conducted which will

facilitate ore handling.

3. Extend the shaft from current 85m level to 105m level.

4. Development of a new 20m crosscut from the 102 meter level to the

west. Once the orebody is intercepted a sill drive will delineate the

strike extent of the orebody. A rise in ore commencing adjacent to the

crosscut will link the 102m level to the existing crosscut on the 82m

level. It will be developed at an angle of about 70 degrees to the

horizontal.

The work will be conducted in accordance with the Department of

Minerals and Energy regulations.

L White

CHAIRMAN

Information in this report which relates to geology and mineralisation

has been based on data compiled by G.B. Barnes, B. Sc. Dip.Ed. AusIMM,

who is a Corporate member of the Australasian Institute of Mining and

Metallurgy and who has the relevant experience as a Competent Person

as defined in the Australasian Code for Reporting of Identified

Minerals Resources and Ore Reserves in relation to the mineralisation

being reported on. This report accurately reflects the information

compiled by the person.

====================================

...In other news, Deutsche Bank AG managing director for

commodities, Charles von Arentschildt, told the Australian Gold

Conference in Kalgoorlie the incentive for the planned European

Central Bank ( ECB ) to hold a relatively large proportion of

reserves in gold had been grossly underestimated by the

market.

We believe that the ECB will be biased toward holding a

relatively large accessible amount of reserves as they build

confidence in the Euro, he said.

The chairman of South Africa's Anglogold Ltd, the world's

largest gold producer, also told the conference that European

central banks have indicated they plan no more gold sales.

Anglogold's Bobby Godsell said South African gold producers

and European central bankers met at the World Economic Forum in

Davos, Switzerland last month.

Godsell said he believed the new ECB would hold between 10

and 30 pct of its reserves in gold.

=======================================

conjecture, smonjecture........it will all be told.....eventually.

away...to buy intel after the smoke clears

Éß³©