To you all: that would be Marry Christmas and all the best in the New Year.

Hey, lets take it easy on each other on this site ( at least for a while ;- )

Anyway, accomplishments is always relative to your current level of knowledge and skills. Using that criterion, brain surgery ( or other medical procedures ) performed 3000 years ago in Egypt ( with patient surviving for many years after the surgery ) , astrological knowledge in Mayan and Incas societies, reality and colors of prehistoric paintings found in caves, etc., were much bigger accomplishments than us putting man on the moon. Yet, despite these accomplishments, their societies came and were gone the long time ago just as everything else in life.

Could you repost your Shakespearean web site? I think the net may have garbled part of your post.

Haven't heard from you in some time -- you haven't been occupied by that Jupiter -- Europa flyby/orbit ( ? ) have you? It was Galileo wasn't it? 200 miles from Europa at closest approach?

Interesting that NASA is now investigating what was mentioned in 2010 isn't it? Liquid water on Europa? Perhaps life on Europa too! Interesting times, aren't they! I think a few people in NASA know far more about extraterrestrial life than they think the average American should know -- but of course there is no proof of this. Not just NASA, either, I think, but a small number of people know all over the world.

Opinions? As I recall you were programmed to tell the truth -- how about a hint?

There is no country in the world without major problems of somekind -- even Switzerland -- highest suicide rate in the world, last I checked, but the highest standard of living in the world too.

One good thing is the computer revolution -- homegrown in the US, and massproduced/marketed even better outside the US.

One bad thing is what the HMO's are doing to US Medical care -- the average middle class American is now being taken for a ride -- all in the name of a good old American profit. It will take many lawsuits before we return to where the patient ( generally ) came first. Forty years of free medicine underwritten by the Government finally caught up with us, didn't it?

I believe in America, just as you. But my belief in America is my belief in the average well-educated Human -- wherever he/she lives in this world. The world will be an excellent place to live in if all of the worlds governments and peoples abide by the US Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and all of the Amendments. The US is drifting away from those ideals, and with this so is our support drifting in the rest of the world, who wonder what we are doing to ourselves.

You see, others outside the US see our problems far better than you or I. The Kitco world is not an audience of your American peers.

Books on Political Science treat at length of the machinery of government. But there has been little or nothing done in the formulation and arrangement of the practical truths of honorable “practical politics” of how, through the voice of citizenship, to help run this machinery of government of which publicists have written.

Immoral Programme:

There is a world of jangling over questions, as if the difficult thing in politics was to induce men to be at heart in favor of the wise and honest; whereas, in all times, the common citizen has been anxious for that very thing; but little in regard to the real difficulty securing the triumph of this common sense and common honesty in the face of the determined opposition, of secret alliance, a vicious minority, and the self-seeking.

There is much about the follies of politics and the vices of society; but little as to how a sober, honest citizen may help to thwart the shrewd and cruel tactics by which the vicious intrigues of the few are made the masters of the many; and that little, more frequently than otherwise, sagely advises a political immorality.

For to do as the vicious minority does involves an abandonment of open and honorable methods, as if one could secure the honor of his country by abandoning his own.

Much has been written about intelligence as the safeguard of our country; little to make one intelligent in an honest effort to be one of the guards.

I don't think we can say we have a solid gold rally ( pardon the pun ) but I think we can comfortably say that we have a gold bottom. Our silver rally may be just the thing to get gold going too! People will notice! And we don't even have a whiff of inflation in our official US indicators!

Aurator where are you? Just how many phrases in the English Language use gold and silver to mean something precious -- or the best? I would guess hundreds! I would guess that this tradition is ingrained in most languages of the world. Those who disagree will have to ignore thousands of years of history -- of currency debasements -- and inflation.

LGB, regarding your theme the US is the best, here is my view based on the history of all powerful nations. I know that I will get a lot of heat from many of my countrymen for this view, but that does not prevent me from expressing my opinion. Mind you all that I have selected the US as the homeland for me and my children some eighteen years ago, so don’t accuse me to have any interest to see the USA demise.

You can identify just about three phases in the history of all powerful nations: 1 ) creation ( mostly based on new ideas, freedom from old imposing power, and mostly associated with conquer and bloody history to impose your culture on less worthy, e.g., Indian nations in the American continent. 2 ) prosper ( mostly based on economic advances - nations which grew only on military superiority, and do not achieve the equal economic superiority, fade away much faster ) . This prosperity attracts most of the brain power from the other nations and foster the cultural, scientific, and artistic advancement. 3 ) decline ( mostly associated with arrogance, waste, moral decline, etc. ) To cut this post short, lets just focus on the decline when the most powerful concede their leading position to some other country ( and sometimes fade away ) .

In most cases, you can find typical signs of decline:

- concentration of power and money lead to a significant level of wasteful spending by government ( whatever form it takes ) , as well as individuals

- there is a decline of morals where everything goes

- to maintain its economic growth the nation has to expand its trade way beyond its borders

- this expansion is less and less manageable and the nation is loosing its capability to manage all crises ( be it military, trade, religious, ect. ) with more and more trouble spots showing up

- nations is becoming more and more money center but uses the other nations to provide cheap labor to produce. It becomes much more like a parasite feeding on others but feeling fully justified to do that not realizing that it will eventually lead to its decline

- at this stage the nation is usually at its peak in technological, scientific, and artistic advances, it attracts foreigners to learn but many of them take away this knowledge to their own homeland

- in most societies there is one trait which becomes predominant in judging success ( e.g., religion beliefs, monetary success, military skills ) and chasing this fetish suppresses any other values ( in the US it is, without any doubt, the monetary success )

- nation looses open mind, and understanding of others, judge everybody by its own standards tries to impose its model on all other countries because without considering the cultural and other differences, claiming ours is the best

The list is longer than that. Show me one culture, nation, society from the past which did not display these characteristics just before its fall. As far as I can judge, the US ostensibly displays all these traits and I believe it has reached its peak and began its decline. I don’t know how long it’ll take before we are dethroned, however, take a note that the creation-prosper-decline cycle is shorter for every new power, mostly due to technological advances which rushes the nation from the prosper to the waste and decline phase.

Please, don’t play the democracy as distinguishing factor. Democracy is a very relative concept and it gives in ( without a doubt ) to a predominant trait ( which would be money in the good ol’ USofA )

As much as I don’t like the future ( it’s my kids who will be living it ) I can’t cover my eyes and say this is business as usual.

JMHO - Miro

I would suggest the following investment approach:

For the most conservative -- gold or gold coins.

For the risk takers -- gold and silver stocks -- which will do well unless the US stock market crashes. If we take history as our educator -- turmoil in the US dollar may give us a warning so that we don't get wiped out riding the gold bug Tsunami.

Investing in real estate may ( underline may ) be successful in some countries for the time where inflation is likely to take hold. Given the illiquidity of real estate, and the risk of deflation, REITs would be much safer as they are liquid.

Investing in China -- very long term. I cannot argue with Donald and others that China will not be adversely affected economically -- if the US and Europe go under. If not, China will have a trading partner, and it will be other countries with higer costs of labor that will have a prolonged weak phase ( more than one year ) -- eg SKorea and Japan. One could argue that much of the SEAsia crisis was triggered by the emergence of cheap goods from China. Anyone notice how many of our goods now come from China?

Eventually all countries who do not come to terms with their debt and problems of excessive use of credit without proper respect for hard assets instead of paper' assets will have their ( Kondratiev wave ) crisis, no matter what the economists say. However, it does not have to occur in all countries at the same time. Look how long it took Japan to finally confront their deflationary crisis. That began in 1990, and seems to be ending now.

The bottom line is that the 'game masters' WILL change the rules if the worst happens.

Donald -- Another omen? The spread between ninety day money and the thirty year bond is only 55 basis points. Therefore, there will be no inflation.... :- ) )

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.

A lady found her second grader was making D's in all his schoolwork, except for arithmetic, which was an F. So she pulled him out of public school and enrolled him in parochial school. For his first report card she was quite proud to see that he'd pulled up all his subjects to B-'s except for arithmatic which was an A+. So she asked him, Johnny, how is it you did so well in everything except math, but you did wonderfully in math?

Johnny replied,Mommy, these people are REALLY serious about arithmatic. Right in front of the class they have a little statue of a man they nailed to a plus sign.

Which reminds me about the purpose of this site. My SWC is +1/8 since I bought it yesterday. Go PGM's! http://www.stockmaster.com/sm/g/S/SWC.html

The smart money will be bottom fishing after the devaluation, provided that the SE Asia situation is easing, and Japan and S Korea have stabilized. I think you will have plenty of time to invest later, if you bail out now and reinvest later. If you can handle the losses, just slowly put more money in. If you do the latter, it still would make sense to wait for the devaluation first. You may be in for a surprise or two before it goes your way.

Eventually I think China will emerge much stronger than it is now. I'm not so sure about S Korea and Japan. Hope this helps -- my advice is worth just what you paid for it!

memory this is the first year in a long time that the markets

haven't had one. Might be an indicator of things to come.

All the best everybody .

Truhome authorities, who are conducting business in the Far East say NOW is the time to be investing in the Asian markets, that in the aftermath the Asians have learned their lesson and in time will once again rise to being a dominant economic force. Does anyone here have any thoughts on the subject and give evidence that I should reevaluate my investment direction? Of course, still taking possession of the physical metals ( gold, silver, platinum ) . I will continue to until my Jewish friends tell me to discontinue. Help, Intolerant 1, Donald, Puetz, Cherokee, Vronsky, etc!!!!!!!

LGB, you are neglecting to look at the price of gold in terms of local currency. Nice try buddy! The fact of the matter is that gold has skyrocketed in terms of local Asian currencies. It has fallen in dollar terms due to the relative demand, or strength of the U.S. dollar. How you see this market depends on where you sit. Beware of the holidays folks. We all know what happened last time. Who knows what might happen this time?

We were supposed to get a little dusting of snow today in the Northeast… Ten to twenty inches later...... Hmmmm, so gold is dead huh? I think I'll check that gold forecast again.......

BBL

Your ole' pal, CB {;- ) )

If a worldwide economic crisis develops, most of us will have a little insurance with our gold investments. If no crisis develops, our investments in our homes and careers will continue to support our families. Either way, we are all on this earth for only a few short years, so try to get your priorities straight.

You never hear of a dying person saying anything like:

“I wish that I had just spent a little more time managing my portfolio” -OR-

“I wish that I had just spent a little more time at work”

I suppose that if any of us were a real genius, we wouldn’t be here reading and posting to Kitco. We would be retired... lounging under a palm tree somewhere on a tropical island.... paying someone to manage our investments for us...

1. It would be easier to find people if sorted by name.

2. Linked graphics, like charts, don't work. I don't know if it would be possible or practical for you to archive these.

3. If you want to get really exotic, you could put a user i/f level in front of the archive, with a drop down list to select a name, and a provisions to enter a range of dates. This way a person could, for example, ask for all the posts for DJ for the month of December, and they would be returned with a single query. For really prodigious posters, it is a little cumbersome and time consuming to click on each post individually, searching for the one you want.

However, if you leave it as it is, it still a great resource, and thank you very much for doing it.

She's right - its Larraine Day - OK she

was in the Hitchcock film Foreign Correspondent

- Who was the male lead

And since it is Christmas Eve ( morning ) already here, HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

The only thing “new” is the history we don’t already know. The last “death of a currency” ( for a major economy ) was Germany around 1930, when people were pushing wheelbarrows full of cash to the grocery store.

Didn’t this inflation and economic crisis result in the emergence of Hitler and the Nazi’s? Didn’t these evil people rise to power by promising to solve all of Germany’s economic woes? Anyone know comparisons of the 1920’s Germany to any nations today?

Im gonna check than larraine spelling

to all

Ag/au ratio has fallen back to its low of 47.1.

Now just suppose that I might possibly be right on the

fibo point, and we get a 50 % retracement on the

ratio. That would put the ratio at about 61. With

silver at 6.22, that would put gold at 379$.

Gee, the run up could be fueled by short covering

plus unwinding long plat/short gold position plus

long silver/short gold positions.

As long as I dreaming .........

Your wife wins my everlasting respect for that answer

For all

Stocks I hold - current price versus lows hit early Dec.

Wes Areas Plus 27%

avgold plus 95%

e-dagga plus 38%

beatrix plus 29%

Rangold plus 95%

Evander plus 20%

Randfontein plus 20%

Northm Plat + 0 ( yuk )

Harmony plus 6% ( yuk )

Amalia Plus 10% ( yuk )

In Australia havent looked for a while- dont know

prices- will check later. I hold

Ramsgate

Carpenter

Delta

Took profits january s&p puts for about 50% profit

Merry christmas haggis and skylark - Im sure you have

done much better than this - Ill just have to cope.

For comparison Barrick up to 18.125 from 15.5 for

surprising 17 % profit. Maybe effect of munk shareholders

buying stock back. Who knows -

Should some guy ( lgb or equivalent ) say yes but how much

were you down on these stock before they turned - answer is

not much - if you read my posts I was out of RSA stocks

long ago with the exception of a big stack of e-dagga - the paper

loss on which was softened by its 30% dividend yield.

Can anyone tell me anything about the stock UPT ( where it's traded, etc? ) Its price is listed on PointCast, but I havn't been able to locate any company information.

-TIA

http://www.nba.com/games9798/971222/lalhou/recap.html

away...to root for the champs-to-be

Éßßallfan

go gold.....er.....uh.......hmmmmm....

....oh and....Mr. Sultan Sir. eblm@utech.net You can reach me here in case you want to spread around any X-mas cheer....if you know what I mean $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!ohmy...

Avalon ( @ vronsky re The Sultan of Brunei ) : I ASSURE YOU GOLD-EAGLE receives WEEKLY visits from BRUNEI DARUSSALAM... and the weekly access rate is increasing. BTW, testament to the growing global interest in precious metals is the fact GOLD-EAGLE is frequented by 103 countries, cuurently at about 300,000 accesses PER MONTH... and increasing by 27% COMPOUNDED MONTHLY -- See for yourself:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/FLAGS.html

PRESIDENT Suharto has fired four directors of the central

bank and replaced them with two outsiders and two people

from within the bank, said a presidential decree.

President Suharto also appointed a

three-member private sector task force

yesterday to consult with the government

on ways to pull the country out of a

deepening economic crisis.

http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/2/nseas01.html

policymaker of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party admitted

the danger of systemic problems erupting among financial

institutions and as the Nikkei-225 stock average plunged to its lowest

level in two years.

At the same time, the Ministry of Finance revealed that the declining

trend in non-performing loans at Japanese financial institutions had

been reversed and that the toll is now rising again.

Both LDP and Finance Ministry officials admitted last night that the

official policy of forcing Japanese banks to clean up their balance

sheets may have to be softened in order to ward off what is

developing into a vicious credit crunch. This is bringing an avalanche

of domestic bankruptcies in Japan and also causing banks to cut off

credit lines to Asian borrowers desperate for foreign exchange.

http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/2/nfrnt02.html

that threatens to bring on a collapse on the scale of the

South Korean meltdown but with far greater political

consequences, many experts believe.

Some worry that plans for next week's partial float of the

ruble, Russia's currency, could bring that about.

There could well be a crisis by January 1, said Keith

Bush, director of Eurasian studies at the Center for Strategic

and International Studies.

Analysts said Russia's notoriously poor tax collections have

been barely half what was expected this year, forcing the

government to rely on short-term bonds, or GKOs, for

financing. These are being offered at interest rates around 45

percent -- down from a high of 60 percent two years ago --

compared with about 6 percent for U.S. Treasury bonds.

http://www.washtimes.com/internatl/internatl1.html

Puetz- Options are tough: You must get the timing right as well as the direction. You've definitely got the direction right on $DJIA, $SPX, and $OEX. Timing? VERY SOON !

I doubt that the S.Korean president would say that. It probably was taken out of context.

However, the Asian crisis and corresponding world financial effect is very severe, that is why we will continue on seeing gold being massacred and discredited in the next little while.

The gold trend is still down I'm afraid, regardless of the buying as the 'paper gold' supply overwhems the market. The stakes are high and gold WILL not be allowed to explode upward any time soon.

The only defence goldbugs have left, is to be RADICAL. That is continue on buying the PHYSICAL ( no certificates, etc ) and avoid debt.

Happy holidays.

G'Day,

WOW, not good........All eyes on Japan tomorrow. Focus on 14000 point level for the Nikkei, very painful. IF that is hit, ALOT of US Bonds may be offloaded on Christmas Day, and hopefully ALOT of gold purchased. To reiterate, BOJ holdings of gold were 0.4% of its equity portfolio, July 1997.

On Monday the Nikkei closed at 14 799.40. The action can be followed on http//satellite.nikkei.co.ip

Enjoy the SUN set up until the point you realise the colours are caused by airborne pollutants - floating greenbacks.

Aye, Haggis

Thank you skylark

for Haggis

Thank you Haggis

Kim Dae-jung, the president-elect of South-Korea, was reported by a local

newspaper as saying he was flabbergasted by the seriousness of the

country's financial crisis. He said he did not know whether South Korea

would go bankrupt tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. The South Korean

won dropped 15 per cent against the dollar, while local stocks shed a record

7.5 per cent.

From Financial Times ( London )

getting even worse in Asia, the Bundesbank announcement about gold's future role in

Europe and hectic buying in India for the wedding season. Gold was lifted overnight in

Hong Kong on Japanese buying on the growing fear of Japanese bank failures in the

near future. The fact that Japan cannot seem to shake its deflaionary lethargy points to

the probability that most of its balance of payments earnings are going to pay off bad

debts, instead of fueling economic growth -- an Asian Black Hole which could very

well suck a good chunk of the world's liquidity if things don't change soon. Along

thesre lines, the fear of Japanese bond selling persists, but the bond market continues

up as some investors still view U.S. Treasuries a safe haven. Japanese stocks were

down another 3.5% overnight and the Hong Kong Hang Seng was down 2.25%. This

morning Moody's, in a related matter, downgraded South Korean, Malaysian,

Indonesian and Thai bonds to junk. Bundesbank president Tietmeyer's comments

about Germany not selling any of its 3700 ton gold reserve -- the world's second largest

after the United States -- also gave gold some impetus this morning. Some of the shorts

are covering as they are beginnng to see this as a recovery with $282 as the low for the

time being. We need a real breakout though to call this the beginning of bull market.

Right now I would have to label the recent up move a bear market correction. A couple

strong up ticks though and bears might have to throw in the towel. It hardly matters

though to asset preservation gold buyers. This is a buyers opportunity which captures

the essence of Christmas -- a gift wrapped opportunity for both the gold bugs and

those simply looking to garner some potential profits in the New Year. More later if

warranted but we expect this to be a quiet time leading up to Christmas. Hope you have

your shopping done. I don't and greatly fear what I face at the mall today. Take care

fellow goldmeisters.

http://www.usagold.com/Daily%20Quotes

The following is an interesting article on gold by Ted Slanker on Info-Mine.Predicting

the gold price in dollars is tough. That in

itself is a two-part question. In our modern world, there

are two solar systems. One consists of commodities, man's

labor, and finished goods all of which orbit around

real money. ( Real money is gold. ) Their valuation

relationships are actually constants. But there are

minor variations that occur, but they are cyclical.

The variations between tangible things aways passes through

normal on its way to too much or too little in terms of

relative values. Even gold, the center of the system,

will occilate a little.

The other solar system consists of irredeemable currencies.

They they orbit around nothing except themselves. Over time

they all lose purchasing power. That means that over time

they lose relative value to the solar system of tangible

things and they never fully rebound. For instance, the

U.S. dollar, considered to be one of the world's hard

currencies that is now called a safe haven, has lost 95%

of its purchasing power this century and it will never

regain that lost purchasing power.

In terms of relative values, in the first solar system

there are always some distortions. That is why there

is relative movement. If I use the dollar as a temporary

measure ( remember it is always shrinking ) I can tell you

what certain things are worth.

For instance, relative to finished goods, commodity

prices are about half of their long-term normal relationship.

In other words, the CRB index should be about 500. Gold

should be about $400. Silver should be about $10. Etc.,

etc.

If I make valuation comparisons in terms of real money

I will say that one ounce of gold will buy a good man's

suit or 300 loaves of bread or 40 ounces of silver. In

1900 one ounce of gold bought 300 loaves of bread. It

only buys 220 loaves today. But in time it will buy

300 loaves again.

The dollar, on the other hand, bought 14.5 loaves of bread

in 1900 and it only buys 3/4 of a loaf today.

The dollar's value is based on confidence, and confidence

alone. Currently, the masses are very confident about

some irredeemable currencies ( especially the dollar ) ,

but very suspicious about others. That will change. When

it does, it may involve both a relative increase in gold's

relative value versus all tangible things and a loss of

confidence in the dollar.

Ultimately, the dollar will be worthless. When it is one

ounce of gold will still buy 300 loaves of bread and all of

the other valuation relationships between tangible goods

will be the same as they have been for the past few

thousand years.

So, with this explantion maybe you can tell us what the

gold/dollar exchange rate will be in 1998.

The Asian crisis is a credit implosion. Credit implosions

in credit systems based on irredeemable currencies results

in the currency losing purchasing power. That is why the

gold price in South Koran won has soared way above its 1987

highs. Will people continue to flee from the frying pan

into the fire. Or at some point in time will they opt to

hold tangibles?

Predicting 1998's gold/dollar ratio is like calling the

stock market peak. Maybe it is like calling the tangible

peak in 1980 or the tulip bulb mania peak in the 1600s

or whenever it was. Man's current affinity for stocks,

bonds, and paper currencies is just another one of his

passing fads. Therefore it an emotional explosion that

will result in a emotional implosion. The timing is tough

to call, but the ultimate consequences of man's folly is

very easy to predict.

The following is something I wrote recently that may

be helpful here.

Joe Granville has a particular line regarding investments

that I really like. It is, What everyone knows is

worthless.

Today, can you think of anyone who does not know that

some central banks have sold or are selling their gold?

If I've heard it once, I've been told about central

bank sales more than I have heard that inflation is

under control, and I've heard that line a trillion

times. When it comes to investing in gold stocks,

there are no two more worthless bits of knowledge than

that the central banks are selling their gold and that

price inflation is under control.

On the flip side of what everyone knows is what they

do not know. And in terms of money and credit, what

the public ( including politicians, educators, economists,

businessmen, bankers, and investment advisors ) doesn't

know would fill volumes. Yes, what they do not know is

that gold is money and currencies are IOUs redeemable

for nothing. More important, they believe unequivocally

that the dollar is different from all of the currencies

that have ever failed, which includes the Russian ruble,

Mexican peso, and currencies of the Southeast Asian

countries. They also believe unequivocally that price

inflation is under control.

Surprisingly, even though the dollar has lost 95% of its

purchasing power this century, no one seems to be worried

about the dollar losing that last 5%. What is so sacred

about that last 5%?

Gold is money, not a commodity.

For commodities to have value they must be used and

consumed. Consequently, the value of a commodity responds

to a delicate balance between its supply and demand. If

any commodity were to have an available inventory that

even approached 100 years of annualized production, that

commodity would be worthless. Because gold is highly

valued and it has an inventory base equal to 100 years

of annualized production, it is money.

I know that many people have trouble swallowing this

concept. But if the supply of money was too small, its

value would be far more erratic than gold's value. So,

because of its supply ( which requires great human effort

to increase ) and its great value ( even when depressed

its worth about $300 for a tiny ounce ) , gold is money.

Additionally, gold has many other attributes that proves

it is money. It has a history of being a store of value,

a measure of value, and a medium of exchange. It is

acceptable, homogeneous, divisible, incapable of being

counterfeited, durable, stable in value ( over time, over

time ) , and portable. All these qualities are behind the

definition of money, and nothing but gold has met the

definition of money.

So, if gold is money, then its supply is a positive, not

a negative. With four billion ounces in its float,

gold is probably man's most abundant single tangible

product. And, since it is money, everyone has an

interest in having gold, if not to spend, then to save.

When a holder of gold decides to use his gold ( money )

to purchase something else, that does not increase gold's

supply. The same is true when someone decides to sell

something for gold ( money ) , that does not reduce gold's

supply.

There are hundreds of reports out today that are trying

to predict gold's value based on analyzing supply and

demand in the gold market. They are all useless. It

is impossible to determine the value of money by trying

to measure its ebb and flow as if that movement was supply

and demand. Gold has an ocean of supply and infinite

demand. At any given moment, gold can come gushing onto

the market from millions of different sources. On the

other hand, demand for gold can rush the market from

millions of different sources at any given time.

But gold's supply is still rather small. The number of

things held by people who may want to swap their things

for gold ( money ) at any given moment are in much, much

greater supply than gold. And, one of the most abundant

things people hold, that they may want to swap for money,

is irredeemable currency. The supply of paper money is

exceeded by nothing else that mankind has produced, and

its supply continues to grow nonstop.

Therefore, don't worry about gold, worry about irredeemable

currencies.

on all the South Korean industrial and utility companies that it rates to single-'B'-plus. The short- term ratings on the corporate

entities also were lowered to 'C'. ( see list of rating below for individual rating changes ) . All ratings remain on CreditWatch with

negative implications. The downgrades follow the downgrade of the Republic of Korea's long-term foreign currency ratings

today to single-'B'- plus, and of the Republic's short-term foreign currency rating to 'C'.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/971223/s_p_korea_corps_1.html

debt and counterparty ratings on eight Korean banks ( see list below ) . The banks affected by this rating action include: Hanil

Bank, Kookmin Bank, Korea Exchange Bank, Korea Long Term Credit Bank, Korea First Bank, Korea French Merchant

Bank, Pusan Bank, and Shinhan Bank. These ratings remain on CreditWatch-Negative.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/971223/s_p_lowers_ratings_1.html

G'Day from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

Plutonic.....

Annual exploration to Dec 96 AU$32 574 000

Market capitalisation as at 13/06/97, AU$894 600 000

GOLD operations in WA include the Plutonic, Darlot, Lawlers, Bellevue, Peak Hill and Mt Morgans gold mines. Gold production for 1996 totalled 449 811 ounces. Gold resources totalled 10.6 Moz. Gold reserves totalled 1.86Moz. Exploration manages more than 1200 tenements, comprising 160 separate projects throughout Australia.

Near Kalgoorlie, Plutonic have the Nimbus SILVER project, with oxide and transition zones resources of 929 000 tonnes at 270 g/t silver and 0.3 g/t gold. This also has massive sulphide ( zinc, copper ) zones, a volcanogenic massive sulphide VMS system. Exploration continues on this project as a Joint venture with Nimbus Resources.

At Bellvue, it is rumoured that PLutonic have a strike extension of a komatiite massive sulphide nickel deposit, t

For Haggis - you seemed interested in categorizing me _ let me help.

I fall in the anti shrashnich category - sometimes called the No

More Bulls*it group. ( im going outside soon to watch the bloody

revolution )

To all those that said durocher - you win my everlasting respect.

Whatever happened to his gorgeous wife ?

The cottage is actually my wife Kim's preserve and she

hasnt even started it yet - I am only involved in broad

policy matters -

Are you coming alone or with wife ?

If you alone you can stay in main house in guest room

for nothing - but you run risk of 3 large dogs ( one

blind ) stepping on you with muddy feet, trying to steal

your food, or gracing you with a room full of doggie fart

( one of their favorite tricks ) .

If you want cottage, rates are 120 Rands per person

with a minimum of 200 Rand for a single person - 2

double bedrooms kitchen - living room shower pool.

satellite and subscription tv - lots of classical

music etc - access to my fax - email etc. not set up to bill

for phone calls so we'll have to negotiate that one.

200 year old House is on 2 acres of well established

garden with oaks, avo trees, jackaranda, camelia.

200 rand is a bit more than 40$/US and you have the

special benefit of receiving lots of misinformation

on RSA from me - Sinbad can straighten you out later.

Speaking of sheep, time to go count some. Hold the fort, mates.

RSA relations with China are old news - They have been reducing ties

with Taiwan ever since the ANC took over. Recently they provided China

with a worn out nuclear processing plant.

China can always get gold from them or anything else. RSA weapons

know how is of more interest. Particularly in fields of artillery

( the G-6 long range field piece still world's best developed by

a Canadian cast off working with denel here ) - and attack helicopter system know how -

Many uninformed people are unaware of the RSA arms industry - a

side benefit of the sanctions period ( along with relative freedom

from connections with foreign banks in event of major internantional bankng failure ) .

G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

The GOLDEN AGE we'll then revive:

Each man will be a brother;

In harmony we all shall live,

And share the earth together;

In Virtue train'd, enlighten'd Youth

Will love each fellow creature;

And future years shall prove the truth

That Man is good by nature:

Then let us toast with three times three

The reign of Peace and Libertie.

Verse 3, Why should we idly waste our prime.

by Robert Burns, 1759 to 1796, Scotland.

With respect to current activity on the markets, perhaps the above IS a reflection of a future GOLD STANDARD.

Aye, Haggis

I liked your posting on RSA forests a lot - However I

respectfully suggest you ease off on merits of South Africa. I know

Im going to.

My reasoning is that we now know who most of the nice guys on this

site are . Sadly, there are also a few know-alls, cheap shot artists,

ignoramuses with big mouths, and general all round nasty jerks here

too.

I would really hate to see any of these dorks make any money as a

result of a recomendation of MINE. Even worse, some of these

rats might even MOVE here. You know more about me than most here.

I get nothing out of my activities other than satisfaction.

So I suggest we cool it.

Ill continue to report quarterly results if I have time and respond

to serious questions.

Suggest you do the same.

I have some info on something here but I think it might be

premature to mention it to you yet - I want to know more and timing is not right - the Vaal group of mines are running up just fine as is

east - dagga . If you or any other reasonable person is interested let

me know by email. My only restriction is DONT TELL ANYBODY. Ill respond by email - and keep the second guessing subterrainneans off my case.

You admonish Dave for being rude And you ignore

ME for being much WORSE. How bloody well DARE you.

The human spirit SOARS and man performs BEST in

periods of WARTIME. Motivation through aggravation.

If you want to sit around going ahem and rubard rubard

and hear hear - get your own site, buddy.

How would you suggest responding to bitchy little

karlita69_M, other than like Tolerant's musing over

the potential appeal of some of his/her tastier body

parts.

To paraphrase the great Orson Welles ( the third man )

- in 500 years of peace and brotherly, what has

Switzerland given us - the cuckoo clock.

To tolerant

Best of the Season to you - What exactly are you

planning for Christmas Dinner? - See Hannibal Lechter's

book of tasty dishes.

To werner

Toujour la betise.

to Haggis

Same to you old buddy

to EB ( and nick )

Never really looked at fibos applied to ratios before.

But the possibilities looked compelling. A 50 %

retracement in the ratio would really confound

everyone. Also gold seems to have drifted out of its

too steep very narrow downtrend channel in dmark and

stirling that I mentioned in prior posts - I figured

a break at around 511/513 dm and we are out to about

516/518.

JD - now that's a good drink over ice....mmmm......bourbon...whew!

JTF - My software only counts trading days also and from 10/1 to this last Friday 12/19 was 55 days...no? And I will sell this rally...yes.

Mikey - Thanks for the cool 'splainin on Fibo. The charts never lie...eventually...

Mr. Ted - the lakers will be the team~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!!~~~~~~go gold~~~~~...

away, for it is bath night...once a week ;-^ )

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