Date: Wed Dec 03 1997 16:21

HepMeMoney_Hmm ( Tales From The Criptic ) ID#402251:

As ANOTHER has said here,not so long ago,

The market is cornered,but by who we don't know.

It's now pretty obvious,for those who doth follow,

For the smoke screen was up,and many did swallow.

In who's currency is GOLD now so cheap?

And from what country have we not heard a peep?

All countries are selling,but noone are buying?

How can this be,unless some they are lying?

So here lies the answer,and a tale to be told,

Of the exchange of paper,for old yeller GOLD,

Never again this mystery in the history of man,

Will so few own so much,thanks to Uncle Sam.

Short lived will it be,so the scriptures they say,

In the timeline of man,a year is a day.

The rich shall be poor,and the poor shall be rich,

Isreal's Streets Of Gold in time is a stitch.

http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/stories/UFOssaidtoinvadeHolyLand.html

CopyWrite@HepMeMoney_Hmm

THIS post seems quite significant..........JTF, anyone?! I, for one will take heed and decipher FULLY what the Hep has to say. I intend to benefit from it as I have benefited from HepRatCat before.

such a poet...The HepMeMoney_Hmmm Thanks.

away...to ponder this in great detail

Éßintrigued

Who is going to explain to the masses diminishing value, timing, in the money, out of the money, etc?

I can't wait till brokers offer portfolio insurance for the masses. I wonder how much it will cost, and if any insurance companies will underwrite this! If I knew that a major insurance company was doing this, I think the best money maker would be puts on the insurance company!

Just wait till the banks get into this business too! By that time, I think I will be looking for my mountain retreat!

With that said, ....................Good night all.....

I find it very hard to scroll back through the days posts, given the current slowness of the server - at least for me -- , and the full from fragmented into 6 sections. If you didn't see my posts, I am convinced Russia is next. The SE Asian countries had booming economies, but all Russia had was a booming stock market.

All: The markets are relatively stable, and gold is very weak or dropping. This cannot be due to the action of the plunge protection team. Why? Trouble with the dollar? Other currencies? More Central banks in trouble?

There is one interesting section in a chapter addressing speculative attacks on a country without gold reserves:

1 ) the use of bond arbitrage, using interest-bearing bonds in a variety of currencies. Another comment,

2 ) relates to a period between 1893 and 1896 in the US when there was a widespread fear that the US Treasury would run out of gold reserves, and that the US would have to abandon the gold standard. The financial markets were very unstable, and peaked in the panic of 1893. During this period the US government made a swap of gold for domestic bonds several times, and subsidized speculators ( the Belmont-Morgan syndicate ) to stabilize the currency. This last part predates the plunge protection team by over 100 years!

SDRer- Do you understand this? -- does this help your research about the future of the US dollar or the SDR? I will be glad to look more stuff up in this symposium book if you tell me what to look for.

There is an advantage of a totalitarian system -- and that is long term plans can be made -- if the leaders know what they are doing.

However, I still believe in what Churchill said about democracies:

Democracy is a terrible form of government, but the alternatives are worse This is a close facsimile, if not an exact quote.

Donald: Any more news about Russia? That I think is where the next major collapse will be. Here's another Churchillian quote ( exact ) about Russia, uttered on Oct 1, 1939:

I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

John, I think I know where you're going with this question. The answer is; History will repeat and it can happen here. Isn't it fascinating how gold is a commodity, but the governments of the world watch it carefully ( like it was money ) ? Do they watch Nat Gas as carefully?

Germany went through a hyper-inflation during the twenties. Anyone who was fortunate enough to 'hedge' against that calamity was probably perceived as being in some kind of cabal, or worse, being the creators of the calamity so they could profit from it. Remember rule one of the War handbook! Dehumanize the enemy and then demonize him! It's worked for over five thousand years. Why mess with such a successful formula? BTW, do you know how many people died as a result of WWII? Best estimates are around 100 million. Most of those killed were non-combatants.

Please expand that list - I dont seem to be on it anywhere. At least

not yet -

Symbol is ANGLY and you can follow ADR price at - http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/dbcfiles/soafrat.html?SOURCE=/blq/usawww

Strength - huge diversified resource company with massive gold plat

diamond coal involvement.

Weakness - see above

For BERNIE - Gee bernie you found me out - IM ADOLPH HITLER -

but PuLeze dont tell my wife, mishugannah - She's Jewish.

Found something interesting - seems like Gypsies who say they had

4 million killed in Ovens during the holocaust have a claim on the gold

too. They say Jewish groups appear not to recognize Nazi massacre of Gypsies.

Found a strange little magazine called scallywag ----- http://www.scallywag.org/

I quote

But the gypsy question is one the Jews simply never consider.

The Holocaust for Romanies just didn’t happen and, of course,

few gypsies rarely had any real possessions to speak of. Except

gold. Money was gold to any gypsy community, and

consequently they kept their gold reserves in their mouths. This is

not a Jewish habit. Yet it is a well known fact that the Nazis

wrenched the gold teeth out of the bodies they had so cruelly

incinerated.

Who did the teeth belong to?

I think this is very interesting.

You assume that Germany had confiscation laws in place. Is that correct?

From that assumption, you then presume that Jews were in non-compliance.

I really do not know. The question is not intentionally biased in any

way but I really want to know.

Were all Germans compelled to turn in their gold Did non-Jews

comply and Jews not comply Is this the case

Is this question so emotionally loaded that I cant ask it

Sorry about that -

1 ) The Russian financial system seems to be coming apart. Reason - The Russians kicked out some respectable Western investment/banking firms for suspicious banking/investing practices - there were 6 or so in a prior Kitco post. Remember the bonds that became mysteriously missing? Also, the IMF has apparently withdrawn support ( Donald post several days ago ) . The Russian stock market is dropping.

2 ) Many non-gangster Russians have not been paid for months, despite Yeltsin's promises to the contrary.

3 ) The Russian Ruble, thought to be stable, was recently dropping again.

4 ) Yeltsin has suddenly switched from being pro-American, or at least neutral, to anti-American posture. Very unusual, unless severe internal trouble. Remember the American just accused for spying?

5 ) Yelstin has been negotiating heavily with ( former ) communist party members -- indicating political weakness.

My impression from all of this is that official Russia is probably broke, and we cannot believe the gold reserve numbers reported. What if the Russian central bank has been infiltrated by gangsters -- like virtually everything else in Russia - and the gold had been stolen?

If Russia had gold reserves, he probably would have spent them already to stabilize the Ruble, or pay all those unpaid Russians anyway. Either way you look at it, Russia is in deep trouble.

I somehow get the feeling that you dont like my question - if not

why not - Obviously - sending people to gas ovens is dreadful and

jews suffered horribly prior to 1945 in Germany. However, Bernie -

freedom of speech cuts in all directions - just because Jews were

victims of one of the worst atrocities in this century does not give

them the right to stop me asking questions about it 50 years later.

Sorry if you are offended - but IF you are offended please tell me

why Otherwise , please can it.

Do you know the answer?. Was gold confiscated by the German government

as it was by the US government during that period Do you know the

answer ?

I tried the Nazi gold site - mainly things about how bad the Swiss

are - Not much use..

The market is cornered,but by who we don't know.

It's now pretty obvious,for those who doth follow,

For the smoke screen was up,and many did swallow.

In who's currency is GOLD now so cheap?

And from what country have we not heard a peep?

All countries are selling,but noone are buying?

How can this be,unless some they are lying?

So here lies the answer,and a tale to be told,

Of the exchange of paper,for old yeller GOLD,

Never again this mystery in the history of man,

Will so few own so much,thanks to Uncle Sam.

Short lived will it be,so the scriptures they say,

In the timeline of man,a year is a day.

The rich shall be poor,and the poor shall be rich,

Isreal's Streets Of Gold in time is a stitch.

http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/stories/UFOssaidtoinvadeHolyLand.html

CopyWrite@HepMeMoney_Hmm

I agree - everybody robbed everybody.

What the Nazis did to the Jews was awful - horrible.

However, I still want an answer. The Americans called

in ALL GOLD from everybody. What was the date - 1932

anyone know

What about Europe - did they follow that example or

PERMIT individual gold holding Anybody know

Did Nazi Germany permit non-Jews to hold gold The

more I think of this, the more I doubt it, but I dont

know and I want to.

Is anyone else interested

I'm strictly a technical trader and my own worst enemy is my own opinion of where commodities and stocks might go. I love gold, the look, feel, warmth I get from holding it and I own alot of physical quantities, but when it comes to trading, my indicators say sell short and run with the pack and until stopped out by a reversal my position remains the same. I fight hard to keep my emotions out of my trading ( It's taken years for me to learn to keep it in check ) . Gold is just a commodity...a vehicle for gaining wealth and must be thought of that way at all times when trading. However, if you love to hold it in your hand, definitely do it now....you might feel a little burned if it goes to $250US, but the gold you hold in your hand is generally not for trading so no great loss.

I have had only one response to my question on Nazi Gold seized from

German Jews. The response seemed to assume that my question arose from

an anti Jewish bias. Not so -

But my question still stands - did the Germans NOT confiscate ALL

gold ( as the Americans did ) or only loot Jewish gold .

Perhaps the answer is simple. Maybe they did NOT follow the US

example and call in everybody's gold in return for fiat money. I dont

know.

Does anyone know the answer.Its a question I imagine some Swiss

bankers may be asking.

thanks

I remember also that one of the posts said that Russia was buying gold. Looks like that was a smoke screen.

I think Russia will be the next domino to fall -- China is in much better shape, despite the $300 billion plus uncollectible debt in SOE's.

away

ÉßßL

My guess is that the UK, by staying out of the EMU/ECU bandwagon, will be one of the least affected. Of course Switzerland will be relatively unscathed, although they will be nervous about having a Swiss Frank that is too strong.

Since what once was Russia is technically part of Europe, my vote is that Russia will be first this winter, with a market crash and winter famines. Looks like the market crash has already begun. This would also explain Boris Y's abrupt shift toward being unfriendly to the Americans.

My guess is that the pending gold rally will be more free-market like than the current bear - obviously manipulated. However, this will only be after gold regains its respectability as a flight to safety. We see this already in the premiums of non-bullion gold coins, but the paper specialists still have a stranglehold and won't let loose.

I wonder, would it make sense to plot the non-bullion gold coin premium to bullion ratio? When that skyrockets, we may have a good leading indicator.

We could also plot the weighted price of gold in currencies not pegged to the dollar. I wonder, what percentage of the world's currencies now have rising gold prices rather than falling ones? I know the tide is turning, and it won't be long before the US dollar is the last man out.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/hein120297.html

Readers might be interested in another of Hein's currency articles here:

http://www.fame.org/research/library/pah-001.frame.htm

All Work and No Pay

Fascinating stuff, since my web pages contain references to both

Leks and the global financial situation! The coins were called

Quindarkes, and were made of aluminium ( their weight being suggestive

of their value! The complete opposite experience of holding

a satisfyingly heavy QEII Sovereign or a Maple Leaf... )

Here is an extract from my comments on my own visit to Albania ( bear in mind this was written 10 years ago ) :

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/albania.htm

In the morning we changed GBP 10 each, as advised, to Lek. This 112 Lek

( or so ) was sufficient for all additional wine, beer and spirits throughout the four full days in Albania, plus souvenirs bought in local shops ( sweets, biscuits, Turkish delight ) ...

The range of goods is extremely limited in the town shops, for example there were only about half a dozen types of confectionery [note: typical

confectionery was very crude, like a round ball of sugar]

I failed to spot any butcher's shops....

It was easy to get the impression going past in the

coach that the shops are virtually empty of goods [note: that's because

they were!]

...We looked in at a watch repairers shop,

where behind the screen an old man was working on clocks and watches that

would rarely be seen in junk shops in Britain. Perhaps one of the few digital clocks in the country is the big one over the State Bank of Albania in Tirana....

'Make do and mend' is common; one of our group related the tale of a shop

where holes in plastic buckets are repaired by a man with a hot iron, melting and joining the plastic....

...all kinds of goods are kept

functioning as long as possible, if at all repairable. Another example was a motorbike windshield which was apparently broken at some time and had all the pieces glued back together like crazy paving.

For a frightening, paranoid view of the future, substitute Dollars for

Lek and America for Albania...

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/finan.htm - financial page

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/crash.htm - meltdown page

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/blizard.htm - Steve Blizard's edited news via Oz

Dow over 8,000;

........................new highs no doubt for S&P coming;

................................................while facts haven't changed.

“What about a drop into mid-December? Well, my opinion is that's still coming, but as it will be a bullish pause for the moment, barring news of shock capability.” Complete Market Forecast at:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger120297.html

Some questions on gold confiscation during the depression

and prior to the second world war.

1. What are parallels to US confiscation of gold

and Nazi Germany confiscation of Gold

2. How come German Jews HAD so much gold if indeed

they did ? Didnt Germany confiscate gold in the same

manner as the US in the early 1930

3. If German jews HAD so much physical gold and

had REFUSED to turn it in for fiat money as

Americans had done - then might that not have been

a contributing factor in their persecution by the

Nazi establishment?

JUST ONE OF THOSE DAYS

Joe was moderately successful in his career of choice, but as he got

older he was increasingly hampered by remarkably painful headaches. When

his personal hygiene and love life began to suffer, he sought medical

help. After being referred from one specialist to another, he finally

came across a doctor who solved the problem.

The doctor said, I have good news, and I have bad news. The good news

is that I can cure your headaches, the bad news is that it will require

castration. You have a very rare condition which causes your testicles

to press up against the base of your spine. The pressure creates one

hell of a headache. The only way to relieve the pressure is to remove

the testicles.

Joe was, of course, both shocked and depressed. He indeed wondered if

he even had anything to live for at this point. Yet, he immediately

decided he had no choice but to go under the knife.

When he left the hospital his mind was at long last clear, but naturally

he felt like he was missing an important part of himself. As he walked

down the street, he felt like an entirely different person.

He walked past a men's clothing store and thought, I'll buy a new suit.

Maybe that will cheer me up.

He entered the shop and told the salesman, I'd like a new suit.

The salesman eyed him briefly and said, Let's see...size 44 long.

Joe laughed, That's right, how did you know?

It's my job, said the salesman.

Joe tried on the suit. It fit perfectly.

As Joe admired himself in the mirror, the salesman asked, How about a

new shirt? Joe thought for a moment and then said, Sure ....

The salesman eyed Joe and said, Let's see, 34 sleeve & 16-and-a-half

neck.

Joe was once again surprised, That's exactly right! How did you

know?

It's my job, said the salesman, very matter of factly.

Joe tried on the shirt, and it fit perfectly. As Joe adjusted the

collar in the mirror, the salesman asked, How about new shoes?

Joe was on a roll by this point and said, Well, Sure... The salesman

eyed Joe's feet and said, Let's see...nine-and-a-half...wide.

Joe was astonished, That's right ... How did you know?

It's my job, said the salesman.

Joe tried on the shoes and they fit perfectly. Joe walked comfortably

around the shop and the salesman asked, So, how about a new hat?

Without hesitation, Joe said, Sure... The salesman eyed Joe's head and

said, Let's see...7 5/8. Joe was astounded. That's right! Man, how

can you tell all of this?

It's my job, reiterated the salesman.

The hat fit perfectly. Joe was feeling great, when the salesman asked,

How about some new underwear?

Joe hesitated for a second and said, Sure...

The salesman stepped back, eyed Joe's waist and said, Let's see.. size

36.

Joe laughed, No, I've worn size 34 since I was 18 years old. The

salesman shook his head, No, you can't wear a size 34. It would press

your testicles up against the base of your spine and give you one hell

of a headache.

As frustrating as chasing bottoms and tops, EH?

away...to grimace :-O!

Éßcommandostyle

i know, you did not need to know that.......

away...to w/w

Éßpatient

``When the appropriate time comes, we may intervene again,'' said Japanese Vice Finance Minister

for International Affairs Eisuke Sakakibara, known as ``Mr Yen'' for his ability to move exchange

rates.

Finance Minister Hiroshi Mitsuzuka said movements in the forex market, especially in the yen

against the dollar, were not favourable, and that Japan stood ready to act appropriately to ensure

currency market stability.

The dollar was also threatened by a warning from an international monetary official, who spoke on

condition of anonymity, that a further dollar gain against Asian currencies would rebound on the

United States.

``The U.S. dollar's rise not only against the yen but also other Asian currencies such as the rupiah

would have a big impact on the United States because that would cause competitive devaluations,''

the official said outside meetings of Asian finance ministers in Kuala Lumpur.

``Ignoring such comments is a dangerous game to play,'' said Nick Probert, head of spot trading at

Bank of America. ``The market is still fairly sanguine about it but it would be foolish to shrug off the

threat of intervention.''

imo....when talk gets like this and the ¥en gets this low......well, you know the drill.....do your homework... ( remember ) ignoring suc comments is a dangerous game to play.

away

Éß

D.A. - haven't heard from you...not a good time, I understand ;- )

Ted - some toilet reading for you......yuk, yuk...ugh...

http://www.nba.com/games9798/971202/nyksas/recap.html

to add...these boys ( and girls ) in London really seem to be trashing the metal when it becomes their turn ( US evenings ) ......hmmmm...do they know something we don't...or is there clock broken too....I think I know...

away...to jump on the good ship ss britian

Éßsailing

purchased call options at $US380 an ounce, with the belief gold prices will rise.

http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971204/business/business3.html

Bank, one of the seven banks permitted to sell gold, plans to

increase the volume in this segment by concentrating on retail

sales. From January 1998, select branches of the bank will start

selling gold to the public in retail quantities. The bank will also

offer gold accumulation schemes to its people.

http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19971203/33755513.html

Bad bank loans in ASEAN countries and Korea have

been estimated by Jardine Fleming at about $159 billion

-- twice the total shareholders' equity.

A survey by the finance house assumes that 70 per cent

of nonperforming loans are lost forever.

If the banks write off the rest, this means that in Korea

banks are short of capital by $54 billion, in Thailand $27

billion, Malaysia $5.5 billion and Indonesia $1.6 billion.

http://www.afr.com.au/content/971204/world/world4.html

key Asian currencies overshadowed better-than-expected growth figures for the local economy.

http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971204/business/business10.html

been used to prop up the rupiah would be suspended. The turmoil surrounding South Korea's economic woes

meant intervention was no longer effective, he said.

http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971204/world/world5.html

http://www.gold-eagle.com/awards/spotlight.html

Goodbye Zaddeek - I've enjoyed as much of this as I can stand

Goodbye Zaddeek - I've enjoyed as much of this as I can stand

Please check the following URL

http://www.bullion.org.za/statistics/fact.htm#95AUSUP

You will find that the US is NOT the world's largest

gold supplier as you originally stated. In 1995, South

Africa produced 522 tons versus 468 tons for North

America ( ie US and Canada ) - You said that the US

produced 320 tons plus in 1995 - I question that number

-- please give me your source for the the 320 tons in

1995 which you spoke of.

You seem to confuse things that are matters of opinion

with facts - you dont seem to want to be bothered with

facts - yes troublesome little things arent they.

I admire your energy. You should devote your time

to a better cause than distorting information.

Gold annual outputs through August 1997 follow for

the AngloAmerican group of companies. Source Mining

Journal - units 000 oz.

Estvaal 60

ERGO 415

Elands 525

Fregold 2500

Southvaal 1215

Vaal Reef 2115

West Deep 1080

Total 7910

In addition, we must now add in joel and Wes areas

which Anglos bought from JCI.

Joel 240

Wes Areas 570

For a grand total of 8720 , or 8.7 million oz, or

271 tons. The best number that I have for US production

about the same level.. I can calculate the US production for the

corresponding period but it is a lot of trouble as

there are many small mines. I dont think its worth

it. My point is that One RSA company produces gold

at the US OR Canadian national order of magnitude - It's subsidiary Amplat also produces about as much or more platinum than Russia.

When Godsell says a lower number - that means

what they WILL cut back to if the price stays

below 300$. The US, Australia, Canada will also

cut back similarly.

Now lets look at US production same basis

Amax 440

Battle Mt 860

Coeur d' 235

Getchell 180

Homestake 1810

Newmont 2930

Total 6455

Barrick is registered in Canada and produces 3

million ounces. If you count canadian registered Barrick as US

production as US production then The US can be seen

as 9455 oz versus 8700 for anglos. If you dont, then as

I said , anglos outproduces the US.

I hope you are right about a bottom for gold at

280 or better. Although, I worry about how you arrive

at the number.

One thing you should try to understand is that

the decline in gold production in RSA was really

because of slack exploration and commitment by Mining

houses during the uncertain political transition

period. The western areas deposit is vast. There are

others. Ill tell you about them later - you're not

ready for it yet.

If you have a problem with these numbers, then contact

Mining Journal Ltd, 60 Worship street,London EC2A 2HD,

phone 44 171 216 6050

Now please give me references and sources for your

data and information - like the 320 plus tons produced

by the US in 1995. I'd like to check that number.

now........where did I leave my spaceship...I think I locked the keys in the trunk.....

away...to call AAA Earthside assistance

Éß&ET

I dont think it matters much on this one as the

market came to equilibrilium very quickly. The

conversions for west deeps and fregold are

0.4735 and 0.1159 respectively. That means take the

price of Vaal Reefs ADR ( multiply by 10 as the ADR

trades at 1/10 of the joberg value ) - then use those

conversions and you should get the ADR trade in

value. Example vaal adr is $3.5- then joberg =$35.

35 * .4735 = $16.55 for Deeps and 35*.1159 = $4.05

for fregold.

For info, the conversion is 0.1425 for wes areas-

or 35*.1425 = $4.84

Im starting a rumour that shareholders should get

an extra 5% for tribal warfare insurance premium but

I dont think it will go down. ( Only kidding Zaddeek ) .