Clinton continues to babble about the environment, yet China is about to dam one of the natural wonders of the world and displace 1million people in the process.

The dam, according to the murdering weasel who rang the NYSE bell attributes the dam, it's completion and such on the Socialistic model that China provides to the world.

Meanwhile back at murder central, the weasel has a 120million standing army. Why? To sweep up the bones and ashes of students that want the ability to speak openly, and create a China the people actually have some input in.

My general feeling from an eclectic group of reading materials is that the Asian markets are in a disasterous position, which will get even worse. The markets here I feel will erode seriously. Picking a day is near impossible. In general terms I for one feel that the US market is ripe for a serious downturn, a very serious downturn. The term crash will fit. The extent of such is beyond my capacities.

You seem to have a rational and balanced mixture. I for one would increase physical holdings of gold and silver, platinum as well, or be ready to do so if you see things that deeply bother your sensibilities.

Some good sites to visit:

http://www.gold-eagle.com

http://www.usagold.com

http://www.strategicinvestment.com

http://www.the-privateer.com

http://www.e-gold.com

Hope you find them helpful.

Regarding an issue you raised in your 3rd point, and I quote,

And if they try to collect ( get repaid ) on the money they lent us, what do you think will happen?

I hope the answer you have is not the same as the last part of George Washington's vision at Valley Forge. If so, paper assets will become so much tinder.

By the way, for those of you not familiar with Washington's vision, try the following.

http://www.amfam.org/resch/washvis.html

http://www.goldfever.com/goldfever/gwv.htm

The sheer stupidity of your comment makes you a fatuous idiot.. You have never read a book or are incapable of digesting facts. WHY did we have the depression. Read a book.

You trust humanities promise to each other. Go ask Pres Clinton if you can use that government debt charge card. Trust China, trust the Middle East, trust North Korea. Horsepucky.

The break throughs we have today are due to fiat money. You are nuts and have bought the whole enchalada hook, line and sinker, in fact you swallowed the pole and the fisherman.

I have a heart, and I am an American and I do not share your view one bit, nada, bubkiss, zero, zilch. Don't go lumping Americans for America against Mr. Puetz or what he stated.

America is a concept pal. You, your fiat paper and your phantom wealth were seen by the founding Fathers for what it is. The death of America. Read the Consitution pal. Read their writings.

Trust me, America is polarized and you are clearly part of the problem. It's the America you want. Keep it. I'll send you a file for the chains, you might make it to the ocean, maybe you and Yossarian can row to freedom. Oh, I'll throw in a silver dollar so you don't get to a free land and start out in debt.

I am an American, but you and I certainly do not agree. But, pretty soon, you and your America will want to rewrite history, We the people, think like us or else. And give us your real assets and we will provide you with our debt paper.

Phooey.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:43
Puetz @bpuetz.holli.com>(@bpuetz.holli.com) ID#222167:

TED: What a difference a new coach makes! The Boilermakers new football coach ( Joe Tiller, formerly head coach at Wyoming ) has turned the program around and made Boilermaker football exciting again. Purdue is now 7-2. They still have to play Penn State, though.

Ted, good luck in your investments.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:39
bob2 @north>(@north) ID#258277:

Donald
yes the Y. Auger chart.. i mentioned it early summer
last year and have been playing with it.
i read of your interest. nice to have xau, ratio and
then can use some of the gold funds bpt/a etc.. or
pdg etc.. all on same chart. very interesting.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:37
Puetz @bpuetz.holli.com>(@bpuetz.holli.com) ID#222167:

Shek: You're right. Governments do drastic things in drastic drastic times. Unfortunately, these drastic measures are normally short-term fixes that make the long-term survival of the government even less likely.

Presently, too many governments around the world have made too many short-term fixes in the past. The long-term is finally arriving. Those governments -- including the US -- will collapse because of their short-sighted solutions from the past.

As individuals, we can only do the best we can to protect our own lives and property. Converting all assets into gold and silver coins is one of those steps that can be taken. We must fend for ourselves.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:34
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Syndicates and India mystify the market
Silver is in play. Trading volumes have soared and until last week, so had the price.
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971110/invest/ivcommod.html

It's a dangerous time in the commodities bearpit
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971110/market/markets9.html
But finally, commodities have already been hurt.
They have already discounted a lot of this bad news. They may be ripe for a rally.
The rally, however, is a sell, according to most analysts -- especially the rally in gold, copper and nickel.
Of course, if Barton Biggs is right, few of us will care about falling commodity prices. With the world ending, we'll be more concerned with our vegie patches in the back garden.

Korea faces further loss in won battle
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971110/world/world2.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:33
TPher jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#37295:

Glad I don't have Intel Inside. ( I have an AMD in my computer. )

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,16173,00.html?feed.ms.start

Pentium bug surfaces

By Brooke Crothers

November 7, 1997, 2:20 p.m. PT

A new bug that crashes Intel ( INTC ) Pentium processors has been found

and is now being discussed openly on the Internet.

The bug has the potential to crash Pentium computers and could be used

as a weapon for sabotage, according to Robert Collins, whose Intel

Secrets Web site tracks inside information on Intel, the world's leading

chipmaker.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:32
SDRer @Reality.Check>(@Reality.Check) ID#288157:

To: Colleen

Good morning again. The reference to FT site was just to say I hope you enjoy it. The postal service manages to turn my hard copy FT into a historical tract, so I find the on-line edition very helpful.
The mention of Paul in the ‘leader’ was confusing for you because my typing leaves something to be desired ( like accuracy ) . There was supposed to be some punctuation between the FT and Paul’s name.
Regards.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:28
NJ Reversal?>(Reversal?) ID#352177:

the url, again http://www.mgl.ca/~yauger/wrapup.html#wrapup

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:28
Puetz @bpuetz.holli.com>(@bpuetz.holli.com) ID#222167:

SDRer: The has been little Consumer Price Inflation ( CPI ) because most new borrowing has been in the financial sector. Donald alluded to this in his 8:42 posting this morning. He talked about Asset Price Inflation ( API ) in stocks and bonds.

When credit expands, inflation occurs. It so happens, that during the 1980s and 1990s, we have had more API than CPI. But both are inflations.

Federal Reserve statistics confirm these inflations. Domestic sector debt has increased by only 33% since 1990 -- by about 4% per year. Over the same time, financial sector debt grew by 100% -- by about 12% per year. That's why CPI inflation has been in the 4% area since 1990, and why mutual fund holders are getting double-digit returns in the 1990s.

But make no mistake about it. Both are inflations and speculations. Collectively, consumers are living beyond their means by 4% per year, and financial market players are speculating to the tume of 12% more borrowed funds each year.

In the United States, financial sector debt has exploded to over $5 trillion in 1997 -- up from $2.5 trillion in 1990. Much of this debt is off-balance-sheet transactions in the form of financial derivatives. Globally, the financial derivative market exceeds $60 trillion. Inflation has been alive and well in the US. It's just that it has reared its ugly head in the form of API.

But, remember: All inflations eventually end with deflation. To me, it looks like the deflation has started. Watch our below. A stock and bond market crash is rapidly approaching. If we're going to have one final rally before the crash, I'll let others enjoy the rally. I'll pass. I'm too terrified of our financial future to comfortable enjoy even 1 day on the long-side of the stock market.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:26
NJ Reversal?>(Reversal?) ID#352177:

Yvan Auger expects a reversal in both metals and XAU this week. http://www.mgl.ca/~yauger/wrapup.html#wrapup

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:19
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Asia turmoil may cost Australia 60,000 jobs
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971106/news/news4.html

TWO SOLAR STORMS HEADED TOWARD EARTH-November 7, 1997 In the next few days scientists expect the effects of two solar storms to be felt on earth. Huge solar flares sent off a clouds of magnetically charged particles that are headed towards earth. Such electrical storms may disrupt satellite and radio communications. Experts say that in rare instances such distrubances can knock out power grids on earth.

IRAQI OPPOSITION SAYS PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY HOUSES SADDAM'S ARMS SECRETS-November, 6, 1997 The Jerusalem Post today reports that an Iraqi opposition spokesmans says the Palestinian Authoriy's embassy in Baghdad, Iraq is being used as a secret repository for documents that relate to Iraq's build up of non-convential weapons such as chemical weapons, VX nerve gas, and perhaps even nuclear weapons. They said that the location keeps the documents from UN inspectors due to the site's diplomatic immunity.
Palestinian Authority spokesman Nabil Amr in response to the charges said, I have no idea about this information.

U.S. BUYING UP EASTERN EUROPEAN WEAPONS TO STOP THEM FROM GOING TO IRAN-November 6, 1997 Although the cost of the deals are kept secret, the U.S. is buying sophisticated weapons like aircraft in bulk quantity from former Soviet-bloc nations to keep them from falling into the hands of rogue nations like Iran, Iraq, and Libya. The first transaction involved the purchase of 21 MiG-29 fighter jets from Moldova. The going price of such weapons are estimated to be about $30 million.

VOLCANO ON MONTSERRAT READY TO EXPLODE-November 4, 1997 British scientists say that the Soufrier Hills volcano on Montserrat may explode again at any time. Two-thirds of the island's population has previously been evacutated. The government will issue a televised warning today to island residents.

EARTHQUAKES REPORTED IN VARIOUS PLACES-November 6, 1997 Yesterday four earthquakes were reported in Greece. The last one registered 5.2 although no injuries were reported.
Iran, with a history of devastating earthquakes, recorded a 4.4 tremor early today which sent terrified Iranians to the streets. The epicenter was in Varamin, 20 miles southeast of Tehran.
A 5.2 magnituted earthquake struck 9 miles south of Quebec City last night and was felt throughout New England. Play at the International Hockey League game in the Colisee du Quebec was temporarily halted.
Two strong earthquakes were felt in Japan early this morning in Kushiro and Chichijima. The earthquakes registered 5.2 and 5.3, respectively, in magnitude.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:16
Shek a>(a) ID#287279:

Puetz,
In desperate times, desperate govs do desperate things.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 12:11
Silver @home>(@home) ID#289349:

It's a warm night outside the stadium. Inside 80,000 fans cheer the game. Outside in the parking lot a propane tank on one of the 1000's of tailgaters grills begins to spew forth an odorless colorless vapor. Those nearby fall to the ground never to move again. Slowly the invisble cloud
drifts toward the stadium, those near the stadium exits are next but all are doomed. This is just one of the many futures Sadam has in store for us and his VX nerve gas. It's just a matter of time.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:53
Steve - Perth steve@compsb.eepo.com.au>(steve@compsb.eepo.com.au) ID#284177:

Australian markets will feel the heat.
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971110/market/markets1.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:50
Scott intel@ais.net>(intel@ais.net) ID#287360:

This is my first post to this discussion group. Has the legendary lost city of El Dorado just been discovered? How much gold is buried in this lost Inca City?

November 8, 1997

Web posted at: 9:16 p.m. EST ( 0216 GMT )

LIMA, Peru ( AP ) -- Three members of a documentary film team trapped for a month in an unexplored part of Peru's Amazon rain forest say they found a pre-Incan stone city and chunks of gold ore hidden for centuries under the dense jungle.

Rescued Belgian ornithologist Jean de Coninck said the stone city was larger and more imposing than the largely unexplored pre-Incan ruins of Gran Pajaten located in the area, which is dominated by jungle-shrouded mountains.

The citadel of Gran Pajaten dates back to 2000 B.C. and was occupied until it was conquered by the Incas in the early 16th century, said archaeologist Adrian Mendoza, director of the National Institute of Culture in the department of San Martin.

Mendoza said in a telephone interview that the expedition could have found such a lost city since there are indications of undiscovered ruins in the area. Some 26 expeditions have gone to Pajaten but only five were authorized. The others went to loot, Mendoza said.

Gran Pajaten was discovered in 1965 by American explorer Gene Savoy. It is regarded as one of the most important pre-Columbian ruins discovered since the American explorer Hiram Bingham found Machu Picchu in 1911.

Many expeditions have gone to the Gran Pajaten area in search of the lost city of El Dorado, which legend has it is filled with gold, Mendoza said. Coninck said the expedition found large quantities of gold ore near the ruins. It's a city built on slabs of stone. We are not archaeologists, but we have kept a record of what we found and we know the exact location of the mounds, said Coninck, who lives in Peru.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9711/08/peru.jungle.ruins.ap/index.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:46
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Capital Growth Topics #198: Chaos
http://www.tfc.com/syndication/current.cgi?tfc+bollinger

Opportunities in Options Hotline Update
http://www.tfc.com/syndication/current.cgi?tfc+caplan

ONLINE BROKERS PROMISE: WE WON'T GET SWAMPED AGAIN
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov1997/nf71106a.htm

Sanyo bankruptcy shakes industry
Asahi Shimbun

Sanyo Securities Co.'s bankruptcy illustrates that times have changed and now only the fittest of Japanese financial institutions will survive, analysts said.
The once-powerful Finance Ministry can no longer maintain its vaunted convoy system under which it kept all financial institutions afloat, regardless of their competitiveness.
Japanese financial institutions, now groaning under the weight of massive nonperforming loans, can no longer rescue weaklings even if administrative pressure is applied, they said.
Sanyo Securities, a second-tier brokerage saddled with 373.6 billion yen in debts, filed for protection from its creditors under the Corporate Rehabilitation Law at the Tokyo District Court on Monday. It was the first securities company to do so.
The move came as a surprise even to industry officials, who are usually well-informed of what could happen in the industry. They had expected the Finance Ministry would bail out Sanyo Securities, one way or the other.
Such expectations were not groundless because the Finance Ministry had supported Sanyo Securities by forcing life insurance companies to extend subordinated loans to the brokerage four times since 1995.
The ministry had also maneuvered to merge Sanyo Securities with Kokusai Securities, a financially healthy second-tier brokerage, and then later obtain support from Sanwa Bank.
Typically, the Finance Ministry has called on large financial institutions, or those with close ties, to help bail out troubled companies or simply absorb the ones that go belly up.
But financial institutions cannot blindly follow ministry guidance anymore, industry executives said.
Every financial institution has to write off its nonperforming loans and improve its financial standing in order to survive intensifying domestic and international competition.
In addition, company managers can no longer authorize bailout contributions out of fear they may be sued by the company's own shareholders.
The subordinated loans life insurance companies extended to Sanyo Securities have already become irrecoverable.
Such precedents may also affect ongoing rehabilitation efforts of the Hokkaido Takushoku Bank.
Hokkaido Takushoku, which planned to restructure by merging with Hokkaido Bank, has been forced to postpone merger plans because the two were at odds over the actual amount of Hokkaido Takushoku's nonperforming loans.
Hokkaido Takushoku Bank has been asking life insurance companies to securitize their outstanding subordinated loans but will probably face difficulties, industry analysts said.
Now that Sanyo Securities has defaulted on its debts, some financial institutions are expected to turn down other requests for financial aid, the analysts said.
Sanyo Securities' bankruptcy has triggered share sell-offs in other second-tier brokerages. That is why prices of Yamatane, Kankaku, Cosmo, Dai-Ichi and Taiheiyo shares are now hovering around the 100-yen level.
Shares of troubled banks--Hokkaido Takushoku, Hokkaido and the Nippon Credit Bank--have also stood at extremely low levels, reflecting the loss of investor confidence.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:44
Voyeur Professor @Home>(@Home) ID#231101:

Donald: A sincere mea culpa for not responding to your inquiry last night. Stephen Leeb, the editor of Personal Finance, has been recommending both stocks and mutual funds for the past three months. Specifically, he likes Newmont Mining because they don't hedge their gold production: if gold goes up, investors get the full benefit of higher prices. He goes on to argue that Newmont's capitalization amounts to around $114 per ounce of gold in reserve, which is the lowest of the major producers and 25% lower than the average of them. For mutual funds he has been recommending The Midas Fund. You might also look at a book he wrote last year entitled, The Agile Investor, where a la many of our Kitco participants ( Puetz, Cole, etc. ) , he is predicting a massive collapse of equity markets and a corresponding increase in global instability. He also likes oil, oil rigging companies, and energy stocks like Apache, Chevron, ENSCO, Texaco and others.
For those who argue that the investing public will continue to ignore gold, they have to recognize, at least, some emerging interest among financial advisors who continue to recommend the stuff.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:32
Carl @home>(@home) ID#333131:

Donald, As usual, you cut to the heart of the problem. But, how can the dollar remain trustworthy as a final exchange refuge if dollars can be created and destroyed by debt creation denominated in dollars anywhere in the world? Look, for example, at the crisis happening now in Korea. The banks tried to shore up their capital positions with big leveraged positions in South American Brady bonds. Now they are getting margin calls with those dollar denominated bonds sinking. The international system is likely to be pressured into creating more paper to bail them and it's going to be dollars that do it. How can the Federal Reserve keep control of the currency, if it's treated as a world currency? Your post implies that there are choices left. What are they? Yes, I know you will perhaps suggest the gold standard. I don't see how that could ever happen until all the damage is done. And then, who would trust it not to be undone at the first whim of political pandering?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:27
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:

Nice post SDRer. I too hope that we can get some cycles on this topic. If we can get a glimpse of their plan then we can better prepare. The SDR definitely is a important tool in their toolkit and it has of yet been unleased with their full PR abilities on the general public of the world. I suspect that the number of people aware of the SDR outside of the ruling circle is infinitestimal.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:23
6pak SDRer @ 11:10>(SDRer @ 11:10) ID#335190:

Well Stated: They ( Bankrupt governments ) can't afford not to join the party. It will be a real last supper
Good Work, Take Care.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:17
RLM Well, That Covers It All>(Well, That Covers It All) ID#403335:

Puetz thinks down soon.
Oldman thinks up then down.
APH thinks trading range.
I respect the thoughts of all three traders, but with such diverse opinions on the future of the Dow, I'm left with two conclusions.
First, each one of us should learn to trade from his/her OWN indicators/systems.
Second, diverse opinions make markets!

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:10
SDRer @Reality.check>(@Reality.check) ID#287277:

To: The Puetz Cadre@Kitco,with admiration ( I tried for under 30 lines, but I didn’t make it! Sorry )

I respectfully ask that the Cadre turn the force of their considerable collective brain power, and their individual mental acuity, to the ‘ways’ the oligarchy will attempt to deal with the global implosion. May I take the liberty of putting my concerns before you?

For some time I have been perplexed by the explanations as to why there was ‘no’ inflation; if ‘productivity’ was the answer, why did the trade deficit grow? Why did it feel like my dollar was worth less?

The answer I have come to is that the dollar has quietly been devalued, against what I believe WB/IMFand the CBs hope to establish as the new key currency., the Special Drawing Right or SDR. The Canadian government, in a briefing paper prepared for Halifax, had a throw away sentence that caught my attention: the SDR was created ...”to replace the less than reliable dollar.”

The new key currency will differ from its predecessors in several compelling ways: it is the child of the bankers, and will never leave home; it belongs to no country, is treasured by no populace. It will be the ‘Accounting Tool’ for the highest echelons of global government, multinational commerce and global political forces ( e.g., the Greens ) . This key currency will be the Yahweh of all currencies ever issued; its name, like Yahweh, to sacred to be spoken aloud.

I believe this is their response. I do not think it was seriously ‘worked on’ before 1993-1994; but reading through stacks of very boring stuff, it seems apparent that Something happened around that time that energized everyone. Why does it matter? And can they carry it off?

At the outset, SDR1=USD1. As of 7/16/97 the exchange is SDR1=USD 1.381.

That sure holds inflation down.

And now we are supposed to fear deflation. Cash will be king and gold will be dead. Oh yes? What cash? In what country?

I would feel less angst were I more confident that the citizenry were less credulous. The last two US presidential elections proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, that character doesn’t matter, feel good matters, and it is possible to fool enough of the people enough of the time to do just about anything. The oligarchy has lead us were they willed: from Somalia to Bosnia we have absorbed their carefully crafted plays, bleated and wept, and not thought at all. We have become a people incapable, apparently, of reasoned discrimination and judgment.

I look around and I see a marshaling of political forces. The most powerful, global political force is the Greens; they will be offered the Tobin Tax. Multinationals will sit down at the table because the ‘hidden currency’ dessert is too tempting to resist. Bankrupt governments, and they are legion, will join the party because they can’t afford not to join the party. It will be a real last supper.

Like you, and Isaac Newton, I believe gold is honest money, and the appropriate currency for an honest populace. While I would not be so rash as to see some of my fellow citizens as charlatans, I must admit to serious reservations about their moral sensibilities. Do we deserve gold?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:03
vronsky JAPAN BETWEEN A ROCK & HARDSPOT - Nekkei DOWN 4.2% to 15836>(JAPAN BETWEEN A ROCK & HARDSPOT - Nekkei DOWN 4.2% to 15836) ID#426220:

Massive currencies devaluations and stock market crashes! Absolute financial chaos reigns in South East Asia - This is spilling over into Japan, Australia, Europe and the US of A. A Financial Tsunami is Looming in Land of SETTING Sun. What inevitably follows will be the total collapse of their banking system. Japan will indeed be forced to dump US T-Bonds in order to defend the home economy. Subsequently, they will buy gold as they fight for economic and financial survival- SEE:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle1106.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:01
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Iraq has stockpiled VX nerve gas agent - report
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/11/02/z0009_5.html

Henry Weingarten
Once again our trading plan is to play extremes and we began buying gold Wednesday and will do so through Tuesday. Then we hope to take profits over the next 3-6 weeks.
http://www.tfc.com/syndication/current.cgi?tfc+weingarten

Weekly charts
Dax
http://www.cam.org/~jacad/charts/daxweek.gif
Nikkei
http://www.cam.org/~jacad/charts/nekeweek.gif
Ftse100
http://www.cam.org/~jacad/charts/ftseweek.gif
Dow
http://www.cam.org/~jacad/charts/dowweek.gif

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:00
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:

Hi Carl: It is a rainy day here but that is better than a rainy day in Roumania! I am not at all a gloomy person in real life. Kitcoland is not real life but it may be future real life.

I get the feeling that no one understands that the Division of Labor, all occupations, require the presence of a medium of exchange. All the things you see and use today would not be here if it were not for the Division of Labor. It is very basic and very simple. As whatever we have selected as our medium of exchange diminishes so does our standard of living. It can go to zero in short order. The official world has selected the dollar as its medium of exchange but it will be the unofficial world that makes the final decision. Events in Asia are a clear warning to the official world that paper is suspect. It is not too late for the official world to correct the error that led to the selection of paper. If that correction is not made before the dollar is under attack, it will be too late. The unofficial world will make the choice.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 11:00
Cmax @Speed>(@Speed) ID#339320:

Speed:
If currencies bomb and equities and derivatives burn, gold
WILL go through the roof, making it THE defacto world
currency. THAT is why they will confiscate it....to control
it. By the creation of gold derivatives, it appears that they
have done a formidable job at controlling gold without
confiscating it.......for the moment. Buy just wait until they
lose control...............
Indivdualism triumphing over collectivism will have nothing to do with it, this will be a
simple question of force.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:47
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Ted: Where do you think all that welfare and UIC comes from? Off to the game.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:47
Speed @confiscation why?>(@confiscation why?) ID#286199:

FDR confiscated gold because it was in circulation and was considered to be money. The entire U.S. money supply was tied firmly to gold. Today, gold is irrelevant. Why would the government want the stuff? What would they do with it? The world economies have moved from gold to paper and are now moving from paper to electronic accounts. In 10 years, we will all be using debit or credit cards to go to museums and see the quaint old fashioned stuff we used to circulate as money. Our grandkids will have the same opinion of us using gold or even paper, that the Europeans had of Indians selling Manhattan for beads. It is far more likely that we will have individual account numbers on chips planted subcutaneously in our wrists used to track our every transaction. Gold will not make a return as money unless individualism triumphs over collectivism. As Selby and others have pointed out today, the score has been heavily run up against us. There will be ebbs and flows as we move forward. Possibly we will see a nice rally in gold next year. Longer term, I am pessimistic. Away...

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:42
6pak Asia & Federal Reserve Rates @ Comfortable U.S. Price Front>(Asia & Federal Reserve Rates @ Comfortable U.S. Price Front) ID#335190:

November 9, 1997
FOCUS-Asia woes seen keeping U.S. Fed rates down

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Shaky global financial markets are set to keep the U.S. Federal Reserve from pushing interest rates up this week, despite hard-to-ignore warning signs of overheating in the booming economy. Not even Friday's surprisingly strong jobs figures -- U.S. unemployment is at its lowest level in 24 years, raising fears that growing wage pressures might rekindle inflation -- could sway analyst forecasts of steady rates when Fed policymakers meet Wednesday to chart the path of borrowing costs.

Asia will be saving us this week, said Joel Naroff, Philadelphia-based economist of First Union Corp. They did have enough in hand to make the move next week. Barring Asia, there would have been a possibility.

The turmoil that has swept Southeast Asia triggered wild gyrations on world stock markets and contributed on Oct. 27 to the largest single-day point drop in the Dow Jones index of key U.S. stocks -- which was quickly welcomed by Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan as all-but-overdue.

The odds of a Fed tightening in the absence of the financial market strains would not be 100 percent but would still be a pretty good bet, said Lou Crandall, economist at Wrightson & Associates in New York.

This is an economy running at very high speed with very tight labor markets, she said. The danger seems to be on the inflationary side, and not on the deflationary side.

Greenspan last week forecast that the impact of the Asian crisis on U.S. growth rates was likely to be moderate. Yet his musings Friday on the failure of the Consumer Price Index to measure inflation properly were seen by many as anindication that he is, at least for now, comfortable with what is happening on the U.S. price front.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/ECONOMY-FED.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:36
Ted @ Novice>(@ Novice) ID#364147:

Will begin workin on a masterpiece ta ya.....

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:34
Ted @ Selby>(@ Selby) ID#364147:

'You guys' always beat us---what's wrong with US ( grin thing ) ? Have fun at the game!!! Oh yeah,all the shop keepers in our area ( Sydney area ) are gettin paranoid as it looks like we're going to have a police strike this week and then the vandalism and general destruction ( already bad ) will get out of control----permissive attitude towards 'young offenders' is extreme to the point of being RIDICULOUS....

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:34
APH =========>(=========) ID#25588:

Oldman & Puetz - According to Jim Flanagan of Pasr Present Futures, In the 210 year history of the N.Y. Stock Exchange, there has never been a bull market top between Oct. of the 7th year and Oct. of the 8th in any decade. Time is running out for a crash, positive seasonals kick in soon. A more likely outcome is a lazy test of the 10/28 lows maybe a couple hundred points lower. Then a large trading range of a 1,000 points lasting into the 4th quarter of 1998 before another leg up to new highs begins. Closed out my short S&P Fri. will try and reshort Mon. above 940.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:33
6pak Fast Track=MAI=SDR @ I'm not sure yet, It's close>(Fast Track=MAI=SDR @ I'm not sure yet, It's close) ID#335190:

Clinton says unsure if fast track bill will pass

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - President Clinton said he was not sure if Congress would pass legislation on fast track trade authority but said he would not give in on the key Democratic issue of abortion to secure it.

In an interview on NBC's Meet the Press that was taped Saturday and aired Sunday, Clinton was asked what he thought the outcome of Sunday's critical vote would be. I'm not sure yet, he said. It's close and we're working very hard on it.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:28
gold market explosion>(explosion) ID#431114:

I recall my thinking, that when news of the first bombs dropping in Iraq,, oil would skyrocket. What happened? Oil plunged. The Gold market will probably have some type on contrary reaction also; that is, a news event that is very bearish for gold causes an explosion in tbe gold price. Maybe a Greenspan comment that deflation has arrived in the US?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:24
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Vronsky: Your .1% supports my long held view that one of the reasons for gold's decline is that currently nobody wants the stuff. Whether this is a good decision or not may soon be revealled. I wonder if there are any figures that would suggest that there is enough gold coin or bullion in private hands to warrant confiscation in the US?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:20
San Francisco Gold Show>(Gold Show) ID#287129:

How many Kitcoites are going to the SF gold show at the end of November.

A few beers might be fun

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:20
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Ted: This isn't good but beats Breton: http://www.theweathernetwork.com/city/can/data/toronto.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:18
kiwi Rome must burn first>(Rome must burn first) ID#194311:

and then the phoenix will rise from the ashes.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:16
fjklaj;f fjdkla>(fjdkla) ID#338126:

Bob M..

The gold seizure was NOT voluntary. Failure turn in your gold was a felony with a 10 yr sentence attached.

However, the price you received I think was $35/oz not $16/oz. Which in hind site, if true, would have been a great deal.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:16
fjklaj;f fjdkla>(fjdkla) ID#338126:

Bob M..

The gold seizure was NOT voluntary. Failure turn in your gold was a felony with a 10 yr sentence attached.

However, the price you received I think was $35/oz not $16/oz. Which in hind site, if true, would have been a great deal.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:14
JTF @Home>(@Home) ID#57232:

Colleen: I 've got to run!! Family duties! My server became overloaded and failed to receive the last three days of posts. I purged everything. Could you repost? Thanks.
Incidentally -- I think Crook is right about the El Nino/market connection. Can't figure out 1929 market and the dustbowl connection yet - not clear to my how this can be ElNino related -- yet. But adverse weather will clearly affect the economy.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:14
Ted @ Mike Sheller>(@ Mike Sheller) ID#364147:

Funny even to a vegetarian.......

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:12
vronsky GENE INGER MARKET FORECAST (November 7, 1997)>(GENE INGER MARKET FORECAST (November 7, 1997)) ID#426220:

They Can't Take 'em Up !

It's always hard to take 'em down, but this week they either can't
take 'em up, or certainly can't keep 'em up. And that's not good.
Supply easily exceeds demand in this market, which is more
important than probably hits most investors at first blush. Gene Inger shares his stock market wisdom with us:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger1107.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:10
Ted @ Selby + our Weather>(@ Selby + our Weather) ID#364147:

Yeah,that's the only reason I wanted Montreal to win too! Can you or anyone out there beat this weather forcast http://www.theweathernetwork.com/city/can/data/sydney.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:09
Carl @home>(@home) ID#333131:

Donald, Good Morning, Your posts this morning seem even more dark than usual concerning the horizon for America. This situation reminds me of the first time I read Atlas Shrugged. I had picked it up as airplane reading on my way to Romania in the late 70's. It was a depressing two weeks, what with experiencing the effects of an imploded socialist state, with a series of whispered, desperate messages imploring me to help arrange visits outside the country on various ruses so that they could defect. ( With water running in the bath room of course. ) All the while I was wading through Atlas Shrugged, feeling that I was experiencing what was happening in the book. It was awful. I fervently hope that we aren't in for that kind of experience. You seem to be expecting something like it.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:06
JTF @Home re: ANOTHER. Off for chores - check in later>(@Home re: ANOTHER. Off for chores - check in later) ID#57232:

Cmax: I have read your responses to ANOTHER -- yesterdays and todays posts from both of you are very informative. I think what makes ANOTHER so mysterious to us - and intriguing -- is that he offers a unique non-Western, probably Middle Eastern perspective. He/she is learning from us, and we are learning from him. If we continue this dialogue, we all benefit.
I will post later after family chores, but I think we must separately analyze the following:
1 ) A commodity-like sudden shortage of gold bullion -- so bullion prices will soon skyrocket, until other sources of supply come in to play. Our gold gurus should be able to tell us how high.
2 ) A rise in oil prices - I think - despite the dramatic downturn of at least one third of the world's economy -- an oil price shock in SE Asia. Oil prices will not be controlled by the OPEC group as it was in 1973 or so, because oil produceers are now very diverse. We may still have an oil price shock in US dollars. Do we have some oil guru's at our site to give the Western perspective?
3 ) A currency/derivatives crisis -- this is what ANOTHER is talking about when he/she talks about all trading stopping. We need to analyze this as a separate topic, because this may not be synchronous with the other two above phenomena.
4 ) A market crash or bear market -- worldwide. This may be linked to item 3 ) .

I always enjoy reading ANOTHER's posts, and now inderstand the mystery -- he/she has a different way of thinking -- knows things we don't know, and doesn't know things we know -- this is why we all benefit, and it is best for the dialogue to continue.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:05
Cmax @Donald>(@Donald) ID#339320:

Donald:
No optimist....I think we are just talking about two different
time frames, with my scenario occuring first, to be later
displaced by your scenario. The cart ahead of the horse.
I hope the world does not arrive at your scenario, but I tend
to agree with you as it will be the outcome and the WILL of
human natue....and the nature of goverment mentality.
The ONLY way I see the avoidance of a total D-day
meltdown, is the goverments relinquishing ALL monetary
controls, and allowing water to seek it’s own level as gold
become the defacto world currency from the ashes of the
fiat paper. True global economy. But as always, the
goverments will try to control the uncontrolable, which will
only exasperate the problem.

Imagine, a true free market with a gold standard, alone,
will remove all long term problems. No more defecit
( deceit ) spending, no more anauthorized debt.

But, Rome must burn first.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:03
vronsky US PER CAPITA GOLD POSSESSION >(US PER CAPITA GOLD POSSESSION ) ID#426220:

Selby ( Toronto ) REF: Your Question Anyone have any idea what percentage of US citizens have a noticable quantity of gold--say 10 or more ozs in coins or bullion? I do not have copies of the studies, nor do I recall the names of the analysts, HOWEVER, it remains clearly in my mind that the sources were reputable - motivating me to remember the important data.

In the early 1970s one US investor in 1,000 possessed some form of gold investment, i.e. bullion, futures and/or gold mining shares. That's obviously 0.1% of the US investor universe. In Janauary 1980 - just before gold's all-time peak of $850 - US gold investors had risen to 50 in every 1,000 market investors. That's 5%. During the Gold Bull Market noble mental investment per head count increased 50 times.

Three years ago at a Gold Conference a paper was presented showing that US gold investor interest was AGAIN at a historical low of ONE per 1,000 market investors ( 0.1% ) -- a cyclic low in my opinion.

None of the above takes into account gold jewelry possession.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:02
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Ted: I would like to see Montreal win because it would be good for the league. But they won't.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 10:00
6pak Lest We Forget @ November 11 1918 Canada at War>(Lest We Forget @ November 11 1918 Canada at War) ID#335190:

FIRST WORLD WAR
Canada's fighting men-and women-participated in war theatres usually not associated with this country, such as the partisan fighting in Yugoslavia, the Pacific battles of the Second World War and the Mesopotamian campaign of the First World War.

Canadians also proudly took part in the mostly forgotten post-Bolshevik Allied invasion of Siberia in 1919. Throughout, they fought bravely on land, sea and in the air. While warfare has undergone revolutionary change from the trenches of the First World War to the high-tech wizardy of the Gulf War, the articles show that the experiences of the ordinary fighting man and woman remain surprisingly constant.
http://www.macleans.ca/caw/caw.html

An Underground Tank ................October 1918
By Lieut. C.W. Tillbrook

Here was an old, crumped dugout with its buried inmates-how long would it be before they would be churned up by a shell? To my right were innumerable sand bags-our spoil dump, under which were buried hundreds, friend and foe alike. I watched a rat come out from underneath a tin can, so diseased that it could hardly walk. It crept to a brownish, green heap that stuck out between some sandbags and began to nibble. Was it a human thigh? I turned away in disgust only to be faced by many such sights.
http://www.macleans.ca/caw/ww1.html

SECOND WORLD WAR
Escape from Hong Kong .................. June 15, 1942
By C.E. Ross

The bullets were once again tearing through the boat and believe me, I stripped in nothing flat. The pockets of my jacket were bulging with last minute things I had tried to save, including two thousand Hong Kong dollars I was carrying to see us through if we ever made the guerilla country. Threw my pistol off--a dandy little 32 Colt automatic given to me by the Assistant Police Chief just at the start of the war. Gosh, it was hard to lose absolutely everything.

As I hit the water I can remember feeling my wrist watch, and thinking, That's the last thing I possess, now it's ruined.
http://www.macleans.ca/caw/ww2.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:59
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Cmax: I doubt that other countries will confiscate their citizens gold.
The Swiss have had gold as a major feature of their history for 100's of years and they haven't confiscated it. Certainly following the US lead on the mater is a non starter. France for one might start giving the stuff away if the US started to confiscate.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:54
George Cole final rally?>(final rally?) ID#42953:

According to Alan Abelson's column in the latest BARRON'S, most on Wall Street subscribe to OLDMAN'S argument that the markets will experience a final big runnup before the bear hits with a vengeance. Could happen, but with so many expecting such an outcome the odds seem slim to me.

Isn't this how many sensible investors who know a big drop is coming, get bagged nonetheless? They know a grizzly is near, but they have to play that final rally. Many of those who confidently expect to ride the bull to the final top and get out just before everything falls apart will end up outsmarting themselves.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:52
Ted @ Selby>(@ Selby) ID#364147:

Mornin Selby!...I'm for Montreal and the Eskimos.....Guess yer not for Montreal...Ya really think it'll be better than the Stuporbowl---that's a tall order ta fill ( grin thing ) ....

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:50
Silver @home>(@home) ID#289349:

I always find it interesting to listen to those who say the people of the US would go to war before allowing the government to take this or that right from them.

All the politicans have to do is confiscate your incomes slowly and its been proven you will do nothing. Fact is, the average working man is not going to go down to the court house and wage war on the government for 1% of his income. It's dosen't matter if the 1% increase
results in a 31% tax rate or an 81% tax rate.

Sorry everyone, but the battle for your freedom was lost back in
( was it 1915 ) when the constitution was changed to allow the government to confiscate your income via the income tax. If you want to blame someone, blame your grand parents, they are the ones who sold you out.

Now you are slaves to your government. Indentured servants.
This will not change. This government will slowly confiscate more and more of your income until you are left with just enough to survive. This along with a new gun law here, and a new gun law there, combined with
newer high tech weapons of the government, will eventually make the government immune to any attempts of the people to change the system.

Eventually elections will only give you choices between parties who advocate maintaining the current system. All other candidates will unable to compete without the funds to buy the media. Several close calls where radical extremists come close to winning elections will result in government approval requirements for new political parties.

I could go on, but you get my drift. When you think of the US, think of what it could have been and hope that one day, perhaps a 1000 years from now, after some natural calamity finally wipes out the world government and throws humanity back into the dark ages, that new leaders like our founding fathers will emerge and will learn from our mistakes.

That is our only hope.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:49
Cmax @the coming gold confiscation>(@the coming gold confiscation) ID#339320:

Stalder:
Ah yes....it is these same mega-bank owners ( read gov power ) who
are planning how to confiscate the gold. What better way is there
to increase your own gold wealth, than control everone elses

Selby:
This is not a question of “defiant” countries to U.S. policies to not confiscate gold just in
the name of being defiant for political reasons.....no....if gold becomes the defacto world
currency, it will annhililate ALL OTHER fiat currencies, and all other countries would
follow the U.S. lead on gold confiscation, else lose their single most powerful
tool......aquisition of the people’s wealth thru the printing of more fiat currency. They
will follow suit.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:44
Donald @AFutureViewOfAmerica?>(@AFutureViewOfAmerica?) ID#26793:

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971106/international/stories/russia_1.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:40
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Morning Ted: It is blue skys and sun here and heading toward the mid 50's. Getting ready to go to the Skydome to watch the Toronto-Montreal Eastern final. Should beat anything that the Blue jays managed and of course far surpass the SuperBore.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:39
cherokee @the-here-and-NOW>(@the-here-and-NOW) ID#344308:

the recent tightening of the trading range in
the dow as compared to the last 2 months indicates----to me---
another big hit is imminent. the chart formation
is quite bearish; history ( looking back-ward again )
is cyclic, as are the forces driving it. ( nature )

we've just completed a 7 year run of historical proportions,
the run in the other direction will be just as historic in its'
proportions. the only difference.....we're prepared......right

hey ted------went by 'little darlins' for you: ) ) ) ) ) )


cherokee!; ) driver-of-the-smoke-signal-mobile-for-all-time-----imm------

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:36
vronsky INTERNATIONAL MONETARY SYSTEM BEYOND 2003 - Orpailleur>(INTERNATIONAL MONETARY SYSTEM BEYOND 2003 - Orpailleur) ID#427357:

The flight to quality into the U.S. induced such a tremendous
rise in the US$ that those currencies pegged to the greenback
came under pressure. The underlying assets in Asia and South
America became overvalued. They are not worth as much as
implied by the present value of the US$. It is important to
understand that the flight from the Euro into the US$ is the first
and main reason for the present currency crisis in Asia:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/orpailleur1103.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:36
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:

Good mornin all....weather: 52 degrees and dense fog....

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:32
Cmax @tolerant1>(@tolerant1) ID#339320:

Tolerant 1:
Thanks for the reply.
But I do not see the average Joe six-pack in the way you describe.....Americans are far too complacent to be mounting another revolution. Mass media has done it’s job only far too well, and the population is brainwashed into lethargy and sensitizes to
violence......as long as you don’t cut of entitlements, welfare, social security, Medicare etc. As long as people have enough food in their belly, the will tolerate TOTAL serfdom, just as the proverbial frog has unknowingly been been boiled in the pot by a slowly rising water temperature. The American of today is not of the mettle of a
Thomas Jefferson. ONLY hunger will push modern people into revolt, and the “greedy” gold hoarders will be but a microscopic minority when the gov pushes public opine against them to confiscate their gold. “You citizens are hungry, because of a certain group of greedy people who pulled out of your stck market, only to hoard the evil gold”....they will just say it more eloquently. But unfortunately, the people will not
stand up to protect YOUR gold from confiscation, when THEY ( ex mutual fund holders ) are broke. Only AFTER gold in confiscated, and people are REAL hungry, will the American public take to arms..

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:31
George Cole XAU >(XAU ) ID#42953:

Shortbull: You may well be right about the XAU going down to 70, but I think it will happen much faster than you suppose. We are now in the final capitulation stage of the gold bear. During such periods downward momentum accelerates exponentially until the final bottom is reached.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:29
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

For a gripping -if fast- view of the Crash go here:

http://www.pei-intl.com/CRASH972.HTM

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:26
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Anyone have any idea what percentage of US citizens have a noticable quantity of gold--say 10 or more ozs in coins or bullion?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:25
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Click on the charts
http://satellite.nikkei.co.jp/enews/SPECIAL/market/index.html
Stocks: Nikkei Drops Below 16,000

BY KAZUNARI YOKOTA

TOKYO ( Nikkei ) -Stock prices fell sharply Friday, led by plunging bank and securities issues, sending the Nikkei Stock Average to close below 16,000 for the first time since July 6, 1995. Foreign investors sold bank stocks heavily, prompting domestic investors to follow suit. Downside pressure is likely to continue until the government takes some positive steps to shore up the economy, said traders.

The Nikkei index ended the day at 15,836.36, down 697.51 points from Thursday.

Trading opened on a weak tone due to a news report that Bank of Yokohama plans to sell off most of its stock portfolio over the next few years. Further selling was sparked by a comment from Koji Omi, Economic Planning Agency director general, that the announcement of an economic stimulus package might not come until the week after next.

The index held above 16,000 in the morning, but sank below that key level in the afternoon, following a decline in Hong Kong stocks and unwinding of arbitrage positions. All major sectors saw losses, including international blue chips. Thirty-nine issues touched record lows, including Yamaichi Securities and nine smaller brokerage stocks.

TOPIX, the index of all issues on the first section of the Tokyo Stock Exchange, ended at a 1997 low of 1,230.07, down 42.17 points. On the Osaka Securities Exchange, December Nikkei futures closed at 15,810, down 620.

The market is very weak due to pessimistic forecasts about Japan's economy, and investors are eager to see some sign of an effective government economic stimulus program, said Yasuo Ueki, general manager at Nikko Securities Co.

An estimated 508 million shares changed hands Friday on the TSE's first section, compared with 503 million shares Thursday.

Decliners overwhelmed gainers 1,102 to 101, with 72 issues unchanged.


MRCI's End of Day Quotes
http://www.mrci.com/ohlc/index.htm
Options and Futures -
247 financial products available in our Financial Mall:
http://www.site-by-site.com/usa/optfut.htm

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:17
Bob M gold@bitterroot.net>(gold@bitterroot.net) ID#26059:

Selby- it is my understanding that the gold confiscation in the 30s was voluntary as most Americans turned it in at the banks..of course that generation was a lot less skeptical of government then this one today

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:12
Selby Toronto>(Toronto) ID#287207:

Cmax: I'm not sure the rest of the world would follow the US lead to confiscate gold. They didn't follow the US lead in the '30s and don't follow it now--Cuba and Iraqu sanctions being current examples. France may be the most obvious resister to US pressure but most of Europe is not going to try to confiscate citizens gold either.

Is there any evidence that the US actually confiscated gold during the '30s--guns drawn at the citizens door.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:10
Stalder @Cmax>(@Cmax) ID#286410:

It seems to me it would be very unlikely that the Rothchilds and other big traders and holders of gold, would give up their control of gold.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:08
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:

Cmax: You said: ( so easily controlled when the gov has
all your income/expenses as electronic bytes on THEIR computers )

You are indeed an optimist. You have assumed that there will be electricity to run these damn things after the currency meltdown. How do you pay the power company workers so they don't have to go out to hunt, fish and farm? Have you seen my recent posts about Vladivostock? Unpaid coal miners are refusing to work without having been paid in months. No coal to run the power plants. Thus they are drawing down the winter stockpile and running the power only a few hours a day. Why would it be any different here?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:03
jfklaj jkfa;ja>(jkfa;ja) ID#251213:

I really don't know what people find odd about Another's not to trade comment. I see that every day in the very small stocks that trade in Canada. If you want to demonstrate this, place an order to buy $10,000 worth of Huldra silver and see what happens.

Even on the NY exchange, the specialists do not allow stocks to trade until they are good and ready.

Anyone here try to sell otc stocks during the 1987 crash?

Anyone trying to trade Dell options?

If a lot of money relative to previous levels trys to move into or out of any market there is a lot of confusion and people stop trading to see what is going to happen.

How about the 550 pt drop in the dow?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 09:02
tolerant1 @Tequilaville>(@Tequilaville) ID#31868:

CMAX: Do not mistake the media views of the United States for those of the people of the United States. There are a great many more independents than they or the government would have you believe. Politically correct thinking lives in the media alone. I find disgust in hatred, those that feed the fires of bigotry should be shunned for the cancer to humanity that they represent, but I do clearly see the seething public at large. It is not pretty to hear the comments muttered in private gatherings. Political double speak is not the language of the masses in the United States.

As to taking gold, the United States will have a revolution on their hands this time around, and it will get ugly. The bureaucrat and grade 12 clerks at best, should beware. The wrath of the American people is not to be trifled with.

Not killing Mr. Iraq has been on the minds of the American people for along time now. Imagine a world where Generals Pat and Mac could have finished the job properly. Taking Russia and China would have put this planet on a much better path then the one of the last 57 years. The human suffering from the stupidity in Washington is not that which can be measured. The tens of millions that have been murdered, suffered and continue to suffer is unforgivable.

The murdering weasel from China that recently visited the United States. The media masked the true measure of America's disgust. Propaganda machines were careful though. This man is the murderer of the students in the square. Americans may be many things, but they appreciate a fair fight, the government has made a tremendous error in this regard by sucking up to this murderer in full view of the American people.

To have that slime, a maggot in the dying after birth of Communism ring the bell at the New York Stock Exchange was a huge mistake. The Governor and Mayor of New York refused to meet with the weasel. Believe me, people across the country noticed that.

The United States is far more polarized today than ever before in my opinion.

I merely make my observations as I see them. My wish is that the United States comes through the obvious hard times ahead in a peaceful manner, where cooler heads prevail but remain firm.

America is a lovely country, the people are a mix from all over the planet and I enjoy the variety of all. Color, religion, culture, diversity, these are the banquet of America and I love to sit at that table where everyone is invited to participate. Good eats for the belly, wide ranging thoughts for the mind, and EVERYONE helps clean up the table, washes and dries the plates and puts them up before they retire to the privacy and freedom created by the walls of their homes.

I hope America does not forget that, as they will be pressed full court in the future.

The saying goes something like, the only way evil can succeed is if good people do NOTHING.

Peace to you, your family and friends.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:58
Cmax @Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid:>(@Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid:) ID#339320:

Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid:
Thank you for the kind reply.....I was afeared that Assalamu
Alaikum was a derrogatory Arab expression, in light of my post being
mis-understood by a Saudi national. I have always had great respect
for the timeless Arab wisdom, and have read most of the classic
works.
Cmax

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:58
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:

Nick@Aussie: It is more than beneficial, it is essential. How can you have the glory of a Renaissance without the benefit of the Dark Ages? I would quarrel with your 16% growth rate. Over the centuries it would seem more like 1 or 2% on average.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:54
Bob M gold@bitterroot.net>(gold@bitterroot.net) ID#26059:

It is still my humble opinion to stay away from bullion and buy old US circulated gold coins if one is after bullion...cost a little more..but then again during the last gold drop..these did not decline as much as bullion...and in the the next up move they probably will go up faster..witness how touigh it is right now to buy US circulated gold coins..hard to find..no one is selling at this level

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:51
Cmax The future of wealth, and it's control>(The future of wealth, and it's control) ID#339320:

tolerant1 said: “Electric metal for me is an excellent way to protect
assets and in the event of chaos a keystroke versus a heft of metal is
my preferred method. I consider e-gold.com to be a lighthouse in the
paper hurricane that has become our financial system.”

Under civilized conditions and a law biding goverment, I would agree
with you......but the goverment is the principal economic criminal of
the U.S., and their laws are meant to keep YOU in line, not THEM.
So the house already has dealt a loaded hand against you. When gold
does take off, it will become the world’s defacto currency, and in the
name of “National Security”, all of the “greedy” gold hoarders will be
ordered by Executive decision and public opinion to turn over their
gold savings. As much as I like the E-gold in spirit, I am afraid that
the FIRST place the gov will look for gold is in the E-gold handlers,
and bank safe deposit boxes.

It seems to me the future “legal” world currency MUST be E-gold, but
only AFTER all the goverments of the world have confiscated the
majority of gold in private hands first.....else risk losing control over
the taxation of your population ( so easily controlled when the gov has
all your income/expenses as electronic bytes on THEIR computers ) if
there is enough gold on the black market to be used as a currency. In
all black markets, the item being controlled ALWAYS increases
heavily in price, and as was said in Jurrasic Park: “Life always finds a
way”. ALL free or semi-free markets are essentially living beings.

No, I think that AT THIS MOMENT, the gov’s and their repective
CB’s are planning HOW to control YOUR present and future gold
wealth when gold DOES become the defacto world currency, as it will be the key to the future power structure. Their main fear is that there is too much ( for their comfort ) gold in private hands that will give it a critical mass so that it may be used as currency.

Whether or not the gov’s are able to confiscate this gold from private
hands, will be they key to tomorrows goverments. When markets
implode this time, there WILL be a paradigm shift, and it WILL
revolve around the control of gold.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:48
Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid LONDON>(LONDON) ID#289348:

Cmax: Assalamu Alaikum = Peace be with you

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:42
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:

An excellent observation from the site posted by Bob2 a while ago. Written on August 12, 1997. ( API = Asset Price Inflation = Stocks )

The problems with speculation appear when it creates holding gains or
losses for the asset mass as a whole. API Inflation will bias speculation
towards a win-only game, and API deflation will do the opposite. Neither
is just, neither will promote economic efficiency, and -- what is most
important -- it simply doesn't work symmetrically:
Whenever API rises violently, like in the late 1980's, the great
majority the speculators ( who always present themselves as investors for
some odd reason ) gain tremendously. API inflations create the Donald Trumps
and all those kids starting out with two empty millions and end up with
twenty by doing absolutely nothing productively. All the working people who
are endowed with little more than two empty hands do not fare well by
watching these buildups of fortune and the excesses in lifestyles coming
with it. The kids get the message: honest work doesn't pay, coupon-clipping
does. Victorian and Protestant values of work and thrift are wrecked; in
short the whole moral foundation of our society is undermined.
Now, when the crash eventually comes, and the API plunges, you will not
see the Donald Trumps crawling in the gutter asking for quarters and dimes.
It is not the two-empty-million youngsters who have sleepness nights because
they are afraid of loosing, or have lost their job, and can't cash up the
next mortgage coming on. No, all that is for other people to do. The Trumps
and the others will be safely bailed out by our dear lender of last
resort, forwarding the bill for financial reconstruction to the
taxpayers, more and more of which are approaching the gutter stage.
As if this weren't enough, another financial boom sets on immediately
after the swift financial reconstruction. Taxpayers have bailed them out,
and that apparently means Jacuzzi time again! The speculators, taken as a
whole, have a win-only game, because when they really loose, the State has
to bail them out to prevent complete disaster.
I guess I don't have to say much more than this in order to provide a
fairly good picture of what is so damaging about speculation and why asset
prices need stabilisation.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:24
Cmax @ANOTHER>(@ANOTHER) ID#339320:

ANOTHER: As you mentioned, gold paper is soon to become extinct as the oil prices go ballistic, I was wondering about your thoughts about holding OIL FUTURES/OPTIONS.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:21
Cmax Date: Sat Nov 08 1997 23:54.......Puetz... ID#222167:>(Date: Sat Nov 08 1997 23:54.......Puetz... ID#222167:) ID#339320:

Puetz said:
“The US may try to confiscate gold from its citizens, but if
they do, I'll be the first to try and escape this country with
my gold. I've have no loyalty the the US. Especially to the
form it has degenerated to in the last 40 years. With that
said, I doubt the US will try to confiscate gold this time
around. The reason Uncle Sam confiscated gold in 1933-34
was to maintain the gold standard. Citizens were
converting their Dollars for gold. The US Treasury was
losing its gold. Uncle Sam confiscated gold to replenish its
gold stock -- so that it could maintain the gold standard
among central banks throughout the world -- even though it
reneged on its promise to US citizens.

This time, our monetary system has no ties to gold. Thus,
there is no reason to confiscate gold.”

Mr Puetz: If gold was to rocket, it would become the
defacto world currency, the arch enemy of ALL modern
goverments fiat paper taxation, and THEY WILL attempt
confiscate gold again, in order to control it. It will become
a contraband ( like drugs ) with very harsh prison sentences
for it’s posession. If the U.S. outlaws ( again ) gold
ownership, you can bet that at that time most other
countries will follow suit. Where would you go with your
gold? The U.S. has degenerated, and the magic of it’s
conception IS lost, but it would still be easier to keep your
gold in the U.S. than in some corrupt third world hole. The
only thing between gold becoming a “controlled subtance”
and money is the physical will ( read militia ) of the people.
Your founding forefathers would weep to see the
complacency of their decendants.....and THEY would
immediatley scream those immortal words........
”Lock and load!”

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:08
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Colleen
The humble nautilus shell has the same pattern.
If one was to radiate fibo numbers out,
You would come up with a pattern like thus.

I have watched the world,
Hang with bated breath,
For where the mighty Dow moved.

Now I see this focus, extending outwards,
Encompassing the Globe.
The Dow, no longer the focus,
Will join with all the other markets,
In a downward spiral.
I feel the East will precipitate, the next rash of fear,
With Europe falling in line,
And the US following - instead of leading.
I doubt that this tide can be turned back.

Sometimes I think that I chat too much.
I spook myself, with what I foresee,
But such is the disease of all who try to prophesize

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 08:06
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Donald
I see the markets correcting as beneficial
The long term trend lines of markets,
Points to an annual 16% growth over time.
We have gone to the excess of over-brought.
We need to correct so that we may go on from here.
This is healthy function over a long period of time.
Unfortunately it is painful in the short term.



M Sun
Smart move - Take out insurance on the current insurance.
There must be a huge ammount of volatility,
Bunched up for that to happen,
Or market manipulation.
I have been watching other option/future traders do just that, last week.
You would need a quick broker with gauranteed access though.
S&P500 option prices
http://www.cme.com/market/prices/r_os.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 07:45
Donald @CongressmenObjectToIndonesianBailout>(@CongressmenObjectToIndonesianBailout) ID#26793:

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971107/politics/stories/indonesia_1.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 07:19
M. Sun @Why not just buy cover>(@Why not just buy cover) ID#334194:

To the Nicks

If you are worried about possible short term recovery of the markets why not just buy a protective covering call on the next big dip ( for some insurance ) . Say SPX500 at 900 or 875. Then sell when and if the big boys ramp it all back up. Any thoughts on this one ?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:53
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:

Bob2: That is a nice site for reference. I bookmarked it. Thanks. Are you talking about the red and blue lines on the Y. Auger chart?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:42
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:

Israeli stocks are open today. Down 6.41 ( 2.23% )

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:37
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

See Economy/Finance
Shaky stocks erode latent profits at Japanese banks

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/TNKS/page/asiaset.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:37
bob2 @north>(@north) ID#258277:

Keynesian Economics

index page
http://csf.Colorado.EDU/mail/pkt/
search page
http://csf.Colorado.EDU/mail/pkt/glimpse.html
search for gold

if banks needed extra reserves perhaps revaluing gold upwards
would be a idea. untill then i sure have nice paper weights.


donald
in watching the xau ratio chart for the last year and half
i put a number of numbers into a spreadsheet.
for one chart i have it generate a ( example ) gold 310
divide by xau 81= 3.82, -2 =1.82, divide by 4 =.455
times 100 =45.5, minus 160= 114.5 now 114.5 with xau 81
makes the chart with the red and blue line so watched.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:36
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Animated El Nino Sea water temperature
http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/~map/maproom/text/climate_pages/sst_olr/sst_anim.shtml

Plus another cyclone forming off East US

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:28
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

Japanese dealers hesitant to open new platinum positions.

http://cnnfn.com/markets/bridge/2200.1.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:28
colleen Nick@Aussie>(Nick@Aussie) ID#33164:

Nick, that's terrific data you're giving us! Thank you. Now I have new Folders opening as well as the numerous bookmarks from the last month.

I went into Cyclone/Typhoon Keith. Of course, I have no idea of how to 'read' it...all those embroidery lessons!!

But it looks to me like a .618 signature? And the small one- a .382?
Could you or JTF be able to check to see if any correlation

You're not a doom & gloomer at all. Your posts are reasoned and balanced as anyone can see. Glad you're pulling it all together for us. Thanks.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:22
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

Gizmo -- It is 10:23 pm here on the east coast of Oz and either 12:23am or 1:23am in N.Z. Don't know if they're on daylight savings time or not. Don't want to wake the sheep up too early, do they. Kiwi sheep are frightened enough as it is!!

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:12
Gizmo Whatisitthetime>(Whatisitthetime) ID#357441:

Just out of curosity, what time is it in NZ right now?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 06:10
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

A worldly view. Try panning and zooming on your part of the earth.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 05:44
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Not trying to be a doom and gloomer,
Just tring to put the events together.

Here is the next cyclone forming off Mexico.
Spawned from the heart of the El Nino.
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-time/eastpac/images/xxirg9.GIF

Plus there is another small one forming in the Western Pacific.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 05:34
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

South-east Asia weather
http://www.ece.jcu.edu.au/JCUMetSat/globellast.gif

USA weather
http://www.earthwatch.com/SKYWATCH/images/IRUS3D.jpg

Super cyclone Keith 1/11/97
El Nino baby number ?
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/COOL4.GIF
From:
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/tropic.html

Jin
The article you last posted,
Points to very tight lock-step formation coming this week.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 05:30
colleen Nick@A-WOW>(Nick@A-WOW) ID#33164:

Nick-

That's quite a scenario to contemplate!

Crooks does not have any knowledge of astrology, I believe. His work is based on past and current scientific data.

Did you see that 'serendipitously, the breakhthrough came whilst investigating the workings of the most sensitive biodynamic transponder ever evolved: the HUMAN BRAIN'?! -P2/5 The QT introduced.

Makes one think.

Apparently Crooks has a chart approx 4 1/2 metres long! Would that we had access to that in it's totality...

Have you been able to find Cosmic Wave Flux's -'interstellar plasma waves/ quantized destabilising pulses'?-

'clear signature , the 0.618 quantum rhthym' in your own charts yet?

A good Sunday sleep so I can assimilate all this new knowledge!

See you tomorrow. Good luck to ALL.

Special to JIN- Good to hear you..we are in the middle of a heat wave here- a sign of things to come, no doubt. Hope your monsoon rains don't do too much damage. Jin, Why should gold shops be closed down Out of business, or closed for the week-end? Take care.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 05:25
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

Nick@Oz -- I always follow a simple rule. Say you've got a bigtime profit on a position. Sell half -- you've paid for your position and then some , AND you're still in the game. If what you expected actually happens then the 1/2 you have left will make you heaps. If it goes against you, you break even. You are still in the game. Nick-- never forget-- it is all a big game. We have already got too much of everything!! Westerners are dying from too much of everything-- food, drink, stress, possessions-- you name it !!! Sometimes wish I could be left on an isolated beach with a pocket knife and a good ( tough ) woman!! I treat the markets with a big grain of salt, mate. If I win I'm gonna have more of what I've already got too much of. If I lose-- where's that beach?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 05:06
JIN FORECAST...>(FORECAST...) ID#206358:

WEEK AHEAD: http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971108/markets_asia_outlook_2.html
H.TRADING

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 05:03
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Nick@C
Yes I agree, I will be taking profits myself this time.
Still holding my positions, bought Aug thu Sept.
I just have a feeling, that you might be taking you profits, close to the bottom come Tuesday.

Just a feeling.

Colleen
Yes, I do.
It really surprises me how events just seem to fall into place.

The week before Popocatepetl blew up last time.
I was watching the earthquakes move down the West Coast.
They started at the Aleutians, then moved in concert, down the coast, till they hit Mexico.
Then Popocatepetl exploded.
Looks similar this time, but I haven't been watching this series up to date.

The three hurricanes seen last week, - more to come?
The incoming rain Jin talks about, - how much this time?
The earthquake activity, - soon potentially volcanic?
The solar flare flux, - effects on the masses?
The El Nino activity, - graphed, it is already larger than ever before and still rising?
Hussein getting stroppy with USA, - potential war?
The falling apart of the financial systems, - how much worse will they get?
The falling apart of the financial markets, - how much further to fall?
The falling apart of global economic growth, - depression?
The pivotal positioning that is occurring in the soft and hard commodities, - inflation?
The changing of the heavens, - astrological influences, I'll leave Mike S. to explain what is happening there.

With all this flux and chaos walking in lock-step together,
I see great reason to suspect big changes very soon - imminently.

The flux and chaos of the masses will soon mirror
The flux and chaos of this fair planet Earth.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 04:44
Roebear @OUCH!>(@OUCH!) ID#403267:

No matter how fine the beverage, tis black coffee that wins in the end. Off to Sunday slavery.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 04:37
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

Dang it Nick@Oz. Tsunamis, solar flares, volcanos, market meltdown, global depreciation. Big crisis 'round here is that my 13 y.o. daughter didn't hand in her English assignment and we got a letter from the school. Sort of puts things in perspective, doesn't it

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 04:20
colleen AND a wave of earthquakes>(AND a wave of earthquakes) ID#33164:

Nick@A: Hello!!
If Crooks is right about a ubiquitous cosmic force, and quantized pulses in economic trading and economic activities' , what would these earthquakes and this Space Weather data mean in the scheme of things?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 04:17
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

Nick ( @Aussie ) -- I know this is heresy, mate, but I am seriously thinking of reselling the puts I rebought last week. I made muchos dineros on the first lot as ( no brag--just fact ) I have a very good sense of timing on MOST occasions. Got the absolute top price on the two major bank puts after mini-crash day. I have been burned by puts in the past. It HURTS when they expire worthless. I have therefore become a little wiser and a LOT less greedy!! I do NOT like holding Dec. puts right now. They scare the shorts out of me as a 6-week Xmas induced euphoria could see them expire doughnada!! You know the market is going down. I know the market is going down. Have you seen all the movies where the evil monster is killed deader than a doornail only to have it rise ONE MORE TIME to confront the hero. I don't wanna be a dead ( poor ) hero, mate. This markets gotta be buried 60 feet under, mate 'cause 6 ain't enough. It keeps rising from the dead!! In the meantime I'll probably take a nice little one week profit and hope to buy my Xmas presents nice and cheap while everyone is celebrating the reprise of the markets over the holiday season. If I'm wrong, I'll miss an opportunity. There will be plenty more. I'm gonna ride this sucker down ( and up ) for all it's worth. I'm gonna see a move from 8 to 5 and I'm gonna make 10. That's the kind of 'rithmetic I like!!!

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 04:04
colleen Sorry, confused and tired..>(Sorry, confused and tired..) ID#33164:

Nick@C- Sorry, sorry! {:-]] Thanks for insight on currency value at time of buying, if I read it right? I have only been looking at relative spot-price, and the current value. Could one take an analogy to a good residental ppty bought x years ago, where business rights can now be obtained, and is therefore saleable for a large amount, even in the current depressed property market?

Nick, it's good to hear you're lining your hull! I'm a gardener....

Nick@ Aussie: Thanks for Solar post....would this fit into Crooks's theory, do you think?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:51
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

It might be worth watching, Popocatepetl Volcano, Central Mexico
Last time those earthquakes went down the West Coast, Popocatepetl blew up.

Global Volcanism Program: Preliminary Notices of Volcanic Activity:

http://www.nmnh.si.edu/gvp/gvn/activity/index.htm>http://www.nmnh.si.edu/gvp/gvn/activity/index.htm
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/gvp/

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:44
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

colleen--wrong Nick--not to worry--too damned many Nicks 'round here anyway!! Would I hand over my gold What gold Don't know what yer talking about. Here I've been sweatin' away all day layin' the new keel on my sailboat and all you guys can do is pull out a fancy piece of paper 'bout confiscatin' gold. c. -- I buy from places that do not know me. I do not exist. There is no paper trail. There is however a cybertrail right here. Will cross that bridge when I come to it. Other Nick's post about THEM listening in to US. They ain't that smart. Nor are they concerned about the lunatic fringe gold bugs of the world. They've got bigger concerns-- like explaining to middle class retirees why their pension funds, superannuation accounts and 401k's? have NO money in them after tshtf!!! Now maam, get up against that wall while we search your house!! Maam, put that gun down, maam,MAAM...

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:44
colleen SDRer-Thanks!>(SDRer-Thanks!) ID#33164:

Hello SDRer,
Thanks for that idea! -yes, it will make for lively discussion here! I see I will have to have 'do' to get them ALL together, so that the other 3 can benefit from the good advice.

Can't quite make out your ref. to FT/Paul ? Did you make a post that I lost? Sorry if that's the case....I've been very busy [without malice]jamming up pop-servers! Please could you re-post? Thanks on advance.

Best Regards- It's good to have you here.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:37
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Rash of earthquakes running along the west coast:
http://pubweb.parc.xerox.com/map/lat=14.48/lon=153.08/ht=107.10/wd=392.77/grid/color/mark=28.21,142.63,6,8;46.53,-119.70,6,4;41.95,12.80,6,0;46.79,-7

Or http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/gldfs.cr.usgs.gov

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:31
SDRer @Rest>(@Rest) ID#280245:

To: Colleen

My apologies for misspelling your name.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:31
JIN MONSOON START...BEEN RAINNING NONSTOP SINCE LAST 18 HOURS.......the asia financial look follow the weather too........?!>(MONSOON START...BEEN RAINNING NONSTOP SINCE LAST 18 HOURS.......the asia financial look follow the weather too........?!) ID#206358:

JTF,NICK,STEVE,COLLEEN,TED....OLDMAN,....RJ....DONALD..,
Looked liked next week should be the big day from japan,korea nad hongkong,...many negative news around the local and mandarin medias news.not to missed the blackhorse too,TAIWAN...the currencies and stock were hitted hard due to inner political misleading.
Still,the GOLD is the best around here....30 /35 % profit after the devalueation of the $ !
.....the retail/wholesale,both terrible.....
.....many goldshops been shut down in bangkok,thailand and heard few around malaysia.......3 more months will be the more obvious to the markets,both the politic policy and the economy......
here one JAPAN STOCK MARKET PAGE: http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/
..
..TIME TO OFFFFF....

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:28
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Space Weather Outlook


SOLAR ACTIVITY IS EXPECTED TO BE LOW.
C-CLASS FLARES ARE POSSIBLE. THERE IS A SMALL CHANCE OF AN M-CLASS
FLARE FROM REGION 8100 AS IT DEPARTS THE VISIBLE DISK.

THE GEOMAGNETIC FIELD IS
EXPECTED TO BE PREDOMINATELY QUIET TO UNSETTLED. IF AN
INTERPLANETARY SHOCK ARRIVES AT THE EARTH FROM THE 6 NOV X9/2B FLARE
AND ASSOCIATED CME, THEN GEOMAGNETIC ACTIVITY LEVELS MAY INTENSIFY
BRIEFLY. THE GREATER THAN 10 MEV PROTON EVENT SHOULD END TOMORROW.
http://www.sel.noaa.gov/today.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:26
colleen Nick@Aussie>(Nick@Aussie) ID#33164:

Thanks for that, Nick. Yes I did- another 1/4!

Scary thought- the confiscation of gold by government-and if ever a country were likely to do it 'when Mandela goes', this is it!

Would you hand over what you had, Nick? Or lie, and hide it?
There were stories in the 70's & 80's of yachts sailing out of Table Bay with their hulls lined with gold. Those who feared for SA's future.

Thanks also for the Elliot Wave site-one can at least learn from that one as it gives the rules! Remember, I'm starting from scratch!!

Have this feeling that I'm learning at too late a stage to be effective in the markets. Need all the help I can get! I'm sure there must be a few lurkers here like me. who may be shy to come forward and ask questions & make possibly naive comments. Thank you ALL for bearing with us.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:23
SDRer @Rest.>(@Rest.) ID#280245:

To: Coleen

Re: Hello. Hope you enjoy FT site; Paul’s stocks

Lost my connection Friday, so I had no opportunity to respond to ref.: items!
For Paul’s stock, why not provide a “Decision Window” into which you
‘plug’ various viable options ( dependent upon Paul’s age ) .

Should make for an interesting and spirited family confab!
Regards.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:23
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Nick@C>Nick@C
Like I said prior to last weeks debacle,

Nick@C holding your shorts I hope, they were cheap on friday.
It's almost like our market thinks we're down enough - HA HA HA

It looks like down from here.
http://www.concentric.net/~sellnow/spxfridy.gif

Another big down on monday, then a tecnical rebound for the suckers, and then comes the big drop as the real selling begins.

I see this market rolling over on itself like when a tidal wave hits the shore.
Out at sea when the wave is coming it is 6 inchs high but travelling at 500 kph.
When it hits the continental shelf it builds up it's momentum.
But the true power lies when it strikes the shores,
100ft of pure power, massive, omnipotent, smashing all with'in it's reach.
The intensity of the selling to come will exceed all expectations.

To be a master fisherman one must learn to read the sign.
So be it to for the chart readers, one must learn to read the sign
The sign is there, for all to see.
It is there now, today and before.
The denial will be intense.
But the wave has started.
It formed at sea weeks ago and has now just started rearing up the continental shelf.
The people who have foresight are out.
And the people on the shore can just make out the top of the wave.
The tall viewers can see what is coming and are moving.
The small viewers can only see a small wave as yet.
And don't understand what the fuss is about.
They will soon. All will soon.

Sniff the air, feel the feelings, and obey the gut.
To rationalise while looking down the beach is folly.

I used to smell prawns when I was a master fisherman.
The senses had to be sharp to win.

And I smell this to be coming.
I read so much sign now, that I know this is to be.
The distance from the shore, that this behemoth is, is beyond me.
Is of no consequence, as I reside far from the beach.
Where many are joining me.
To look back in amazement.
Awe.

IMHO

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 03:06
Thor Nick: 02:11>(Nick: 02:11) ID#307360:

Well said.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:47
Nick @C>(@C) ID#386245:

G'day colleen. Hope you've bought that 2nd 1/4. I've read most of ANOTHER'S posts. I find it rather difficult to believe when people on this site talk $1000-$2000+ gold. My heart says great but my trader's head says what a load of bs. Can you imagine what would happen if gold went to say $350 in the next 6 months Aussie miners for one would be selling forward everything they hadn't yet mined for the next ten years. OK -- let's say the oil/gold thing is true. Oil zooms -- consumption will then fall off a cliff, marginal wells will be put back into action and before you know it oil will be in a glut situation. I personally can't see such a radical move UP in the price of gold. Indians, Chinese and Arabs would massively increase their wealth, non-gold holding westerners would be poorer as their paper assets devalue and they have no fall-back position. If the price of gold stays in the $300-$400 range, colleen, and the rand, S.A. shares etc. devalue by 25%-- then you are way ahead with your stash. When you buy gold you are buying an investment in the US$$ and a store of value in emergencies. My gold bought in the $318-$325 range is way ahead in Aussie dollars even with the price of gold at $310. Consider your gold a hedge against your own currency and against bad times. If the gold zoomers are right then you will make back a little of what you lose on everthing else. ANOTHER'S NOT TO TRADE comment may have something to do with the legal gold market being shut down in his scenario. In that case you may be asked to hand in your Krands at the government's request. Would appreciate some other comments on that one. Knock, knock, knock. Excuse me maam, I'm from the Government Gold Confiscation Committee. This letter says I am allowed to collect ALL of your gold bullion, coins, etc. You shall, of course, be compensated in 'new rands' to their full value at the gov't price of $35/oz.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:22
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Sorry about the double posts.

LGB
At this important point in time, there should be more serious reflection,
On what is happening within these markets.
It is well worth reading and digesting comments from both sides of the fence.

It is a bit premature to be patting oneself on the back,
Before the event has even taken place.

Besides that, you said you would refrain, from these bad habits of yours.

Intelligent discussion is what we all come here for.

There was a popinjay in this chat room before.
Who said he knew all.
He gained no respect from me at all.

Communication not dissention is required.

Sometimes I just have to reason that you are just a smart plant.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:16
LGB @ Nick at Nite>(@ Nick at Nite) ID#310407:

Based on your parameters Nick ( Brilliant analysis on best sites etc. ) those Govt. site spies sure won't be lurking THIS site mate! Night all.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:15
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:13
LGB @ Miro>(@ Miro) ID#310407:

Miro you asked a question re Asian market moves, and indeed, I did move 5% of my MMF into FOSFX this week and right back out again Friday when it became apparent that the crises there will not be resolved by the Indonesian bank bailout and other efforts of IMF & others to stem the tide of capital movement. I now remian on teh sidelines in cash for the indefinite future until the Domino effect dissipates. I a little in teh Asian move but made a much larger gain than the loss in Fidelity Magellan this week during the crash UP 2%

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:11
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

MARKET MANIPULATION

I believe that it would be in the Fed's best interest to:
Have a room full of computers, and a room full of computer lurkers ( 100x100 ) .
To track and monitor all the major investment chat rooms.

Some of the minds, that inhabit these rooms, are attached to some of the best traders, who have the best insight, into what is really happening.

To be able, to gain the knowledge, of some of the best traders,
To help them control, and manipulate the markets.
Would be invaluable, to the 'Powers who be.

The way they are playing, these markets, at the moment,
And the timing of their concerted moves.
Leads me to believe, that they are currently monitoring these sites.

The way that I've seen this occurring is:
When we had taken a big fall, that is then bought back up,
Buy pushing the PREM, and buying the largest markets caps.
Gaining the most leverage, within the major indices.
This was done, 8 minutes before the President,
Gave his speech to the nation.

Also, when the indices go into a narrowing swing pattern,
That we commonly call a wedge.
Breakout of a wedge is critical,
And I've seen the periods, when they push the indices up, at these critical moments.

The timing of these manipulations, has been exquisite,
From a technical/analysis point of view.

If one was lurking at a chat site,
Where they monitor the smart traders,
One would hear these positions, and calls being made,

It's like being at the racecourse,
And having 100 of the best commentators,
Calling the race.
All of them shouting loudly, when a critical junction point, is being reached,
But the sentiment has been gleaned from 100 of the best trading analysts.

To have 100 computer spies, lurking, reading and analyzing,
500 brilliant trading analysts, calling each move,
Then reporting back, to a panel of 100 economic analysts,
Who report to 50 economic advisors,
Who advise the top three decision makers.
These decision makers, then analyze and confer,
After which, the one top decision maker,
Makes the decision, as to whether or not to act.
The YES or NO comes from his lips only.

The - Good Food Pyramid for MARKET MANIPULATORS

//-----------------------------------\\
// the chairman \\
//--------------------------------------------\\
// 3 executives \\
//----------------------------------------------------\\
// 50 economic advisors \\
//------------------------------------------------------------\\
// 100 economic analysts \\
//--------------------------------------------------------------------\\
// 100 spies lurking on chat sites \\
//----------------------------------------------------------------------------\\
//--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\\
// 500 brilliant traders & their running commentary \\
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\\
// unknowingly part of the food chain \\
//----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\\



Now we all have a fair idea of the manipulations taking place within the US Markets.
Well I believe that the same is happening within the Gold markets.

There has been an interesting saga, close to home on this subject.
Australia sold 167 tons of gold ( date )
The announcement was made at 0100hrs, Australian Eastern Standard Time,
By the Australian government, when normally all employees have gone home.
The announcement coincided with the closing of the English markets.
The Australian Prime Minister was in USA, for the week prior to the announcement.
Widely rumored that the Reserve bank of Australia, had asked G. Soros to come to Australia
To help support the Australian dollar, for when the public became aware.

Similar events have been happening regards Switzerland's intention to sell their gold.

Most of the recent drops, have been occurring on Fridays.
This is the period, when there is the most fear, within the markets,
As people don't want to go long, over the weekend.

They therefore, push gold down on Fridays, so that come Monday,
When most of the selling in equities is being done,
There is no interest in switching to gold or gold stocks.

In this period of financial volatility.
The last bastion of hope for the US is their bond markets.

A.G. & co. do not want a rush from paper to gold.
They need their money markets to keep their well oiled machines running.
With overseas holders of US paper debt likely to recall their capital, to help their own ailing economies.
The US will need massive amounts of money, to go into bonds to cover this shortfall.
All the money that is being removed from the equities markets, will need to find a new home.
Bonds are a traditional play in a bear market, and this is where they want the money.
With all the global property markets at near highs, with a looming depression.
They will not be an attractive choice of investment.
Gold is at the bottom of its price range and is one of the few under value real assets.
Governments of the world, do not wish for a 'flight to safety' rush, having its effect on gold.
The Governments must at all costs stop, this flight to gold from occurring.


The problem with this sort of MARKET MANIPULATION,

As much as they try, to drive down the sentiment for gold, the cheaper it becomes,
Therefore, creating demand for gold, which is precisely what,
The POWERS WHO BE are trying to avoid.

This contrary approach, is also failing, within the equities markets.
The more they try, the POWERS WHO BE,
To contain the markets, to stop them from crashing,
The more the volatility is contained.
This volatility, is what is spooking shareholders,
Forcing them to become sellers, out of fear,
For what is about to happen.

These above assertations,
Are why, what is coming, will come.

The more the POWERS WHO BE,
Try to control these markets,
The more they are creating,
That which they don't want to happen.
IMHO

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:10
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

MARKET MANIPULATION

I believe that it would be in the Fed's best interest to:
Have a room full of computers, and a room full of computer lurkers ( 100x100 ) .
To track and monitor all the major investment chat rooms.

Some of the minds, that inhabit these rooms, are attached to some of the best traders, who have the best insight, into what is really happening.

To be able, to gain the knowledge, of some of the best traders,
To help them control, and manipulate the markets.
Would be invaluable, to the 'Powers who be.

The way they are playing, these markets, at the moment,
And the timing of their concerted moves.
Leads me to believe, that they are currently monitoring these sites.

The way that I've seen this occurring is:
When we had taken a big fall, that is then bought back up,
Buy pushing the PREM, and buying the largest markets caps.
Gaining the most leverage, within the major indices.
This was done, 8 minutes before the President,
Gave his speech to the nation.

Also, when the indices go into a narrowing swing pattern,
That we commonly call a wedge.
Breakout of a wedge is critical,
And I've seen the periods, when they push the indices up, at these critical moments.

The timing of these manipulations, has been exquisite,
From a technical/analysis point of view.

If one was lurking at a chat site,
Where they monitor the smart traders,
One would hear these positions, and calls being made,

It's like being at the racecourse,
And having 100 of the best commentators,
Calling the race.
All of them shouting loudly, when a critical junction point, is being reached,
But the sentiment has been gleaned from 100 of the best trading analysts.

To have 100 computer spies, lurking, reading and analyzing,
500 brilliant trading analysts, calling each move,
Then reporting back, to a panel of 100 economic analysts,
Who report to 50 economic advisors,
Who advise the top three decision makers.
These decision makers, then analyze and confer,
After which, the one top decision maker,
Makes the decision, as to whether or not to act.
The YES or NO comes from his lips only.

The - Good Food Pyramid for MARKET MANIPULATORS

//---------------------------\\
// the chairman \\
//---------------------------------\\
// 3 executives \\
//---------------------------------------\\
// 50 economic advisors \\
//---------------------------------------------\\
// 100 economic analysts \\
//---------------------------------------------------\\
// 100 spies lurking on chat sites \\
//---------------------------------------------------------\\
//------------------------------------------------------------\\
// 500 brilliant traders & their running commentary \\
//------------------------------------------------------------------\\
// unknowingly part of the food chain \\
//------------------------------------------------------------------------\\



Now we all have a fair idea of the manipulations taking place within the US Markets.
Well I believe that the same is happening within the Gold markets.

There has been an interesting saga, close to home on this subject.
Australia sold 167 tons of gold ( date )
The announcement was made at 0100hrs, Australian Eastern Standard Time,
By the Australian government, when normally all employees have gone home.
The announcement coincided with the closing of the English markets.
The Australian Prime Minister was in USA, for the week prior to the announcement.
Widely rumored that the Reserve bank of Australia, had asked G. Soros to come to Australia
To help support the Australian dollar, for when the public became aware.

Similar events have been happening regards Switzerland's intention to sell their gold.

Most of the recent drops, have been occurring on Fridays.
This is the period, when there is the most fear, within the markets,
As people don't want to go long, over the weekend.

They therefore, push gold down on Fridays, so that come Monday,
When most of the selling in equities is being done,
There is no interest in switching to gold or gold stocks.

In this period of financial volatility.
The last bastion of hope for the US is their bond markets.

A.G. & co. do not want a rush from paper to gold.
They need their money markets to keep their well oiled machines running.
With overseas holders of US paper debt likely to recall their capital, to help their own ailing economies.
The US will need massive amounts of money, to go into bonds to cover this shortfall.
All the money that is being removed from the equities markets, will need to find a new home.
Bonds are a traditional play in a bear market, and this is where they want the money.
With all the global property markets at near highs, with a looming depression.
They will not be an attractive choice of investment.
Gold is at the bottom of its price range and is one of the few under value real assets.
Governments of the world, do not wish for a 'flight to safety' rush, having its effect on gold.
The Governments must at all costs stop, this flight to gold from occurring.


The problem with this sort of MARKET MANIPULATION,

As much as they try, to drive down the sentiment for gold, the cheaper it becomes,
Therefore, creating demand for gold, which is precisely what,
The POWERS WHO BE are trying to avoid.

This contrary approach, is also failing, within the equities markets.
The more they try, the POWERS WHO BE,
To contain the markets, to stop them from crashing,
The more the volatility is contained.
This volatility, is what is spooking shareholders,
Forcing them to become sellers, out of fear,
For what is about to happen.

These above assertations,
Are why, what is coming, will come.

The more the POWERS WHO BE,
Try to control these markets,
The more they are creating,
That which they don't want to happen.
IMHO

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 02:10
LGB @ Puetz>(@ Puetz) ID#310407:

Allright you Stutz, I been nice to you and now you slander the great LGB by saying I don't understand the monetary system! hey pal, I understand it better than a guy who has made no less than FIVE totally wrong prediction sin just the past 2 months!!

Which reminds my Mon Puetzke, I'd love to read some of your archives sometime. Any newsletters from say January of 1995? 94? 93 92 just LOVE to see what you were saying then my friend.

Now as to your prediction question for coming week, please see my earlier post of 01:32 on 11/8 which was made before your predictions for coming week and in which we ALOMST agree on something!! ( DOW to be lower on the week, though I'm not certain of my call this time and not making any trades around it, just LEANING that way based on Asian activity ) .

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 01:53
colleen back to see>(back to see) ID#33164:

Morning ALL {:-}}
A quick scroll says you're [still?] up and about! Have just printed out 21:-23:59 to read and try to catch up, and see A GOOSE@23:52 - posts never seen from ANOTHER & JOHNK . JOHN K looks jolly good, but will have to sit and try to understand.

JTF, NICK, ALL: What do you think ANOTHER means when he says a soon NOT TO TRADE rising gold market' ?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 01:34
themissinglink New world order>(New world order) ID#373403:

The devaluation of the worlds monies and the subsequent liquidity crunch forces everyone to redeem U.S. Treasuries for dollars. The Fed prints up the money for the buyback figuring the money will stay out there in the other countries to be used as the new world currency.

This after the collusion between Australian CB, Swiss CB, and the fed to kill off gold. With gold out of the way, Greenspan works hard to bring down the equities markets to help in the buyback of U.S. Treasuries from disenchanted and hard hit foreign investors.

Clinton bungles along making bad trade deals with or without fast track so that more goods enter the country than leave in order to prop up our trading partners.

Steadily, the dollar supplants all other currencies and Americans keep on consuming cheap foreign goods and losing jobs.

You think Rockefeller might benefit from this?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 01:21
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:

FOCUS-Seoul stocks plunge on financial crisis
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971108/korea_markets_4.html

Elliot wave theory
http://kyyppari.hkkk.fi/~k20261/ewt.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 01:13
themissinglink goodnight>(goodnight) ID#373403:

If all you goldbugs want to see how I sell gold for $1,000/oz TODAY, go to http://www.familyjeweler.com

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 01:05
aurator playing the hunches>(playing the hunches) ID#257148:

Missinglink OK, to answer the easy one first, Roy Jastram in his book the Golden Constant produced a table showing gold increased in ( purchasing ) value during commodity price deflation. ( vice versa in inflation. ) Some months ago April 30 23:34 I reproduced it here, and I'm not sure exactly how to get it to you. ALL Perhaps someone else could help?

As to deflation, being the outcome, I am not certain, and could not argue with an economics major, it is just a hunch. overproduction of manufactured good, commodity price volatility, higher stock inventories, bankruptcies increasing, liquidity ratios deteriorating...., banks looking over their shoulders...

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:58
Ted @ Monday>(@ Monday) ID#364147:

This could shake things up on Monday:BAGHDAD, Iraq ( CNN ) -- A
top Iraqi official says his country
will not hesitate to shoot down
American U-2 reconnaissance
planes if they fly over Iraqi
airspace.

Flights of those U.S.-piloted
planes, conducting surveillance
missions for the United Nations, are expected to resume Monday. Good night Aurator and all kitcoites~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:49
themissinglink Ow, my head hurts and I was an economics major!>(Ow, my head hurts and I was an economics major!) ID#373403:

Aurator, you said one would expect a general comodity price deflation. Why? If the Fed monetizes the debt by printing money to buy back Treasuries then the dollar price of everything will go up, right? This is inflation.

Besides, if there is price deflation for whatever reason, won't gold prices decrease in correlation? How is this a hedge?

Steve

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:49
Chippie @ DAK>(@ DAK) ID#334321:

Yer damn right they can be yawn---speakin of which----what the hell am I still doing up Nite Bro...

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:42
aurator Piltdown Man>(Piltdown Man) ID#257148:

themmissinglink: almost, except, in the scenario you describe, one would expect a general comodity price deflation. The best hedge against deflation is gold, my precious, other asset classes will fall in relation to gold, and there will be optimum times to exchange, well, you know the rest...to everything change, change, change, there is a season...

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:38
Ted @ Puetz>(@ Puetz) ID#364147:

Puetz: My comment is how bout dem Boilermakers...

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:36
themissinglink I am selling gold for $1000/oz! Any takers?>(I am selling gold for $1000/oz! Any takers?) ID#373403:

So Asia melts down and takes the United States with it. DJIA down 50%. Fed monetizes the debt in concert with other Central Banks after they close all the exits ( gold ) . Massive shift in wealth from the rich to the poor ( savers vs borrowers ) . Inflation runs at 30%, everyone runs to put money in hard assets. No gold above ground available for sale as CB tricked us all out of it ( bad modern investment ) EXCEPT FOR A SMALL ENCLAVE OF FORWARD THINKING GOLDBUGS ( Kitcoites ) . Gold rises to $1,500/oz for a sustained period.

Now, would you sell your gold for currency in this situation? What do you do with it? I suppose having made 500% on your investment would allow you to risk some inflation ( deflation of held money ) . I bet you would not feel like buying any government obligations at this point. You could buy other hard assets like real estate but they should have risen with gold.

Example: If everyone is given $1,000 then there is no net increase in wealth, just inflation. If you are given $1,000 alone then you are now better off. If everyone but you loses $1,000 then you are also better off.


Is being a goldbug like the above analogy where everyone else loses but you, yet you do not gain except by their misery?

Steve

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:32
Puetz @bpuetz.holli.com>(@bpuetz.holli.com) ID#222167:

I'm burned out for the night. I didn't get 1/2 of the things said I had hoped for. I'll try to finish sometime tomorrow. In any case, I'll read all comments and questions between now and then, and try to answer. If I've overlooked a question, repeat it, and I'll try to answer tomorrow.

I apologize for not answering all questions. I simply don't have time to. In any event, I agree with Nick -- the stock market will trend lower this week. When the DJIA breaks below the 6900-7100 support area, Katie bar the door. The greatest financial crash of all-time will have arrived!!!

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:28
JT8D-9A @35,000'>(@35,000') ID#197328:

Listening to Bob Brinker, delayed several hours because of football game.
He's still fairly bullish on equities. Bob, if you're listening, I parted company with you several weeks ago. Just can't remain bullish in the current environment....

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:27
Roebear @Mooney*>(@Mooney*) ID#403267:

HAHA I turned the midnight hour, a first after many months. The previous is in reference to my beloved BCMD, of course. I don't know if you noticed, but my reply, Consider it done ,was in reference to my posting it on the stock channel the ( day before ) ! Ohyes! SHoot, gold stocks are dead!!! There ain't nobody there on the stock channel but coin buyers and sellers. Good luck tryin'to get anybody on line there, they are all dead or gone. Market sucked 'em up like a good shop vac! I'm sorry, but the charts and TA ( and not just my humbled talents, either ) say this stock can hit 9+ which equals a ten bagger. It held and went up THIS WEEK, when even the best blue chip gold stocks took a hit. Sometimes simple is smart if you read the flow. Somebody with bucks is in the know. Appropriate disclaimers apply, esp. as concerns those who value an occasional single malt beverage. BTW, THIS is the last time ( 'last' time forgot to put Second in ) , I mention BCMD, until we hit two anyway, which with a two bagger, gives me your buddy Hepcats rights [2-2-2-2-2-] in this market!
( Grin thingy )

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:26
Ted @ Roebear>(@ Roebear) ID#364147:

No drinkin on kitco....Go bears and gold!

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:24
6pak Hanging at the Bridge @ God's Banker suicide or murder? ($1.3 Billion US)>(Hanging at the Bridge @ God's Banker suicide or murder? ($1.3 Billion US)) ID#335190:

November 8, 1997
Businessman surrenders in God's banker case
ROME ( AP ) - A Roman businessman turned himself in Saturday after being charged in connection with the death of a financier known as God's banker.

In a case that drew worldwide attention, Roberto Calvi's body was found
hanging under a London bridge in 1982, after a major banking scandal. A
London coroner's jury could not decide if it was suicide or murder.

Flavio Carboni surrendered to police even though we are convinced that
Calvi committed suicide, said Renato Borzone, Carboni's lawyer.We will try to demonstrate this with more details in the near future, he said, adding he intended to file a motion for Carboni's release.

Carboni was arrested on a charge of conspiracy to commit homicide.
Authorities have not disclosed details of the allegation.
Banco Ambrosiano, in which the Vatican bank held a significant stake,
collapsed in 1982 when it could not collect $1.3 billion US in loans made
to shell companies in Latin America.

Bank chairman Calvi, known as God's Banker for his close ties to the
Vatican, was found dead days later.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:22
JT8D-9A @35,000'>(@35,000') ID#197328:

Panda:Your Saturday 10:08 reference Democracy vs. Constitutional Republic: Right on!

Dittos MPC and your 10:48 on the same subject. Thought I was the only one that had noticed.

Interesting to note that our boy Bill was out courting the perverts again on Saturday. There is nothing gay about it.....

Mr. Puetz: Always interesting to read your comments.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:22
Puetz @bpuetz.holli.com>(@bpuetz.holli.com) ID#222167:

A.Goose: You're right. You did over-load me. I have a short attention span. I usually don't read postings over 20 or 30 lines. That's why I try to brief and to the point myself.

One point where I do agree with LGB is on the idea of market manipulation and conspiracy theories. Most individuals and institutions act in this own self interest. If it's in the interest of a government ( for the sake of its survival ) to keep the gold price down and to keep stocks up -- they will do so.

I recognize the reasons why governments around the world want stocks and bonds to stay high, and why they want the gold price to stay low. But wanting and being able to produce are 2 different things. All governments presently operate on a dis-honest fiat-credit monetary system. If too many people lose confidence in this system, the system and the governments will collapse. The governments will do everything possible to maintain confidence and keep investors away from gold.

But the basic truth is these governments run a dis-honest monetary system. They provide credit at below-market interest rates. They cheat savers. It's no mystery why people have stopped saving in the US, and why we must borrow from overseas to maintain our standard-of-living.

There are enough smart and thinking investors in the world to take advantage of this situation. Even though they are few, as a group, they slowly convert the worthless paper in gold and silver. At some point, the supply ( and credit-worthiness ) of the paper becomes too great for the dwindling supply of gold and silver.

The focus of the study should not be on conspiracy theories, but on when government attempts to hold the gold-price down have failed. I believe we have reached that point. My key arguement is the alarming rate at which financial paper is failing. Bankruptcies, defaults, and delinquencies have been rising at an alarming rate. And now, stock markets and currencies are collapsing around the world. What further evidence do we need?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:10
Midas @home>(@home) ID#340459:

This consistent Devaluing Yen will only make Jap Holdings abroad bigger in Yen terms

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:07
6pak Japan @ 14,000 low>(Japan @ 14,000 low) ID#335190:

November 8, 1997
WEEKAHEAD-Japan stocks likely to droop, recovery
TOKYO, Nov 9 ( Reuters ) - Japan stocks are likely to slip further this week, with few factors on the horizon likely to help the key benchmark rise from its lowest levels in more than two years, brokers said.

The next support level is seen at 15,500, but the Nikkei average is basically on its way to revisiting the post-bubble economy low in the vicinity of 14,000, one broker said. On Friday, the 225-share Nikkei average plunged 4.22 percent or 697.51 points to 15,836.36, its fourth-largest point loss this year and the lowest close since July 6, 1995. On October 31, it ended at 16,458.94.

The downdraft was led by relentless selling of banking-sector issues.

The package will be based on the ruling Liberal Democratic Party's second batch of proposals due out around November 14.

If the stock market keeps falling, fears of a meltdown in the financial system will increase, Nikko's Takada said. If the fears increase, the government may feel compelled to do something to jump-start the economy.
But even if the Nikkei average were to manage a bounce, brokers said it could be short-lived due to seasonal factors.

Foreign investors close their books for the year-end in December and they will definitely move to cash in on some of their yen-based assets, said a trader at a second-tier brokerage. Brokers said, due to intermittent buying by government-steered public funds seeking to cushion the fall in share prices, potential buyers were sticking to the sidelines in anticipation of more declines once that source of support dries up.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/JAPAN-STOCKS-OUTLOOK.html

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:05
Midas @Wondering>(@Wondering) ID#340459:

European citizens are allowing their CB's before EMU finalization or EU Standard setting to sell gold suddenly, No Noise there, what gives ?

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:04
oldman tedot@ibm.net>(tedot@ibm.net) ID#162148:

Puetz: I dont want a confrontation. I agree with just about everything you say, except for your timing. You're gonna be right---but not in time to save the December puts, IMO.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:03
tolerant1 @Tequilaville>(@Tequilaville) ID#31868:

Puetz: I understand your thinking. The forty years you refer to, sad to say, yet I agree with you. Two seperate lives, life experiences and we have arrived at the same conclusion.

Electric metal for me is an excellent way to protect assets and in the event of chaos a keystroke versus a heft of metal is my preferred method. I consider e-gold.com to be a lighthouse in the paper hurricane that has become our financial system.

Thank you for your direct and quick response.

Date: Sun Nov 09 1997 00:03
Roebear @Mooney*Louis 16th>(@Mooney*Louis 16th) ID#403267:

Mooney* ( What IS that little bugger for ( * ) ) I suspect that your Louis the 16th analogy, tidbit, whatever, will prove to be a turning point, a reflexive moment in time for gold and silver. As charts can be thrown off by manipulation ( credit to Earl again ) so can the exact timing of your well said story. Ben Franklin was harldy wrong ever ( except for that Turkey for US national bird ) and the manipulators may postpone the truth, but they cannot circumvent it. All you Zombies, eh!? Now back to some very nice single malt. BBAHAW ( Be Back After Hangover and Work, ( UGH! ) ) BTW, What the H**l do you mean real Gold Mine!@$#$ ( ) ( ) !