Gold Discussion for Investors and Market Analysts

Follow this thought:

If AG does not raise rates
Treasury rates will rise to compete anyway
He will have inflation to deal with
The price of Gold will rise as will Oil
THEY do not want this instability in price of Oil

If AG raises rates
He stops inflation
He will help US treasuries compete with higher rates abroad
He continues to control the price of Gold and Oil
He puts the Us Markets in the toilet

What do you think?

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Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:34
HighRise

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:34
Lurker Down South>(Down South) ID#320102:: Brazil DOWN 7.33%; Mexico DOWN 5.53%

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:30
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:: GSC, LGB - The intra-day charts I'm looking at show in one minute intervals and a 20 min simple moving average. Everytime the line breaches the MA it hardly does so and then falls back below if not lower that the previous low, than at least longer below the MA than above it. Very weak. I don't see much of a rally at the end. With such as run in asia, who will bet against this tide? I see 2 - 2.5% drop in our markets to match the european market skids. As a few have pointed out our sled ride will start when we lose control of mind-share re our currency. Then bye-bye birdie!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:30
Woodchucker @EB>(@EB) ID#235159:: 2-2 is right dude......Dow down 2-2-4

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:29
MoreGold @Where is he?>(@Where is he?) ID#348286:: OK, where's that cat with the DOW-8300 / GOLD-310 numbers.
Today is THE DAY. Time to produce.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:29
LGB @Allen>(@Allen) ID#269409:: Well don't go TOO far with that Averaging bashin Allen. It's made a lot of people a lot of money for a lot of years, Moi included. If I had a youngster just entering the workforce and he knew nothing about investments, I'd tell him to put as much into his 401K as possible into Mutual funds. Average in. Well, maybe not starting TODAY, but after the next BIG downturn....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:26
LGB NasDaq, Mark of the BEAST>(NasDaq, Mark of the BEAST) ID#269409:: Just checked Nasdaq and it was at 1, and 666!! VEWY scawy! Especially on the eve of Halloween week!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:25
MoreGold @Allen>(@Allen) ID#348286:: Good one Allen...... HeHeHeHe Remember what your BMW drivin, cigar chompin, Gold bashin Broker says ..... buy the Dips.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:25
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: I say this market does not rebound in the final hour. It stays very close to where it is, over 190 or better for the day.

Anybody buying into to these dips will be toast.

Even the talking heads have to worry as do brokers who say, Yeah, c'mon in, buy the dips. People don't have long memories when they make money, the obverse is true when they lose money.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:23
Cyb Jeddak CybJeddak@aol.com>(CybJeddak@aol.com) ID#287193:: Tolerant1 & LGB thanks for your remarks. At first it takes real nerve and a thick hide to withstand the ridicule of buying stocks that are unloved. Then, after awhile when the results are in as with LGB's chip equipment stock price runup, confidence builds. The nervous part of buying low to sell later to the former mockers at higher and more fashionable prices goes away. Even to a trader, I urge buying precious metals stocks now for a long term buy and hold to create capital gains. This is the main route to building wealth. Of course continue to trade with a percent of available funds.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:17
arden ardengold@msn.com>(ardengold@msn.com) ID#201238:: THANKS VRONSKY - of all the days - today my cable company decides to install fiber optics so I don't have access to CNBC today. If it wasn't for your wonderful current charts I would be blind.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:15
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:: You guys are pathetic. This is not a crash. Its a healthy adjustment. The market is correcting itself. This will be the basis for a new bull market. We are basicly sound. The economy is stable. Just dollar cost average into this and you *WILL* be healthy, wealthy and wise. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

There was a sudden jolt, but after 20 minutes everything returned to normal. TITANIC

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:10
LGB @George Cole, DOW rally final hour>(@George Cole, DOW rally final hour) ID#269409:: George I think the DOW will stage a comeback in the final hour but it will be weaker than before. Final close will be in the range of a 130 to 160 point drop for the day.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:09 �� Gunrunner?!? Where goes>(Gunrunner?!? Where goes) ID#2082:: Gun, Are you cashing in some on your ��Marks It's offsetting my �en...it will be just a ( small ) matter of time before they are both moving in the same direction. I will buy more �en if it hits .8250�...��h M�!

What a time for the seasoned currency trader!! I wish I was one...

away...to do my homework...
��$$

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:07
Varvara Aladdin@Javanet.com>(Aladdin@Javanet.com) ID#428142:: DBC News
Metz: Buy gold

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:06
Ted @ back from wood pile>(@ back from wood pile) ID#364147:: Talkin head ( Bob Cazani ( sp ) CNBC just said gold is not the safe-haven it used to be...bla bla bla...Dow down 202....where's our 3-1-0 + 8300 boy genius of kitco?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:04
LGB @CybJeddek>(@CybJeddek) ID#269409:: Cyb re your 13:06. Have to agree with you. The buy low sell high is such a basic concept, yet the investor at large never seems to follow it, One of the most profitable plays I've had in the past 2 years of this bull, was to put some of my discretionary funds into Semiconductor Manufacturing Equipment stocks when they were out of favor and languishing at a bottom, just a year and a half ago! . ( Watkins Johnson, LAM research, Applied MAterials ) . All skyrocketed in a matter of months as the Bokk to Bill ratio in the chip market rose. Applied for example rose 400% in LESS THAN A YEAR!!

The same concept can be applied to any undervalued, overdue market sector. Right now, Gold & Silver mining stocks, and the Precious metals themselves look mighty find. I've made a lot of money on the DOW for years, all the while ridiculing the hard money Doom and Gloomers who have missed this great Bull market, but now I see the tide turning, and I intend to be in the PM's and mining stocks till we have a very major correction in the Equities.

Someday the resumption of the DOW bull will begin again and when the time is right I'll be back in it, but for now it has nowhere to go but down. Silver however, has no where to go but UP!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:03
kiwi Boomer Dipsters Listen to Niel>(Boomer Dipsters Listen to Niel) ID#194311:: ...you keep me searching for a heart of Gold,
and I'm getting old

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:52
George Cole final hour rally>(final hour rally) ID#42953:: ALL: For quite awhile now big drops such as today's have been cut sharply by strong final hour rallies. Interesting to see if this pattern holds.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:45
John Disney jdisney@iafrica.com>(jdisney@iafrica.com) ID#24140:: To All

I'm curious that no one has mentioned my glorious
leader's visit to Colonel Ghadaffi. Mandela
says that US sanctions against Libya are immoral.
This man has the world's smallest brain. But the
liberals love him. Because he is so PHONEY. And you
think I worry what will happen when he GOES. It's
a question of surviving until that happens. What a
jerk.
By the way Anglos quarterlies are out tomorrow
and they apparently all made money. Gee. And I hear
Barrick despite the worlds lowest costs and the worlds
highest hedged prices LOST money. Maybe when Mandela
kisses off he can get a job with BARRICK. Two really
overrated items.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:42
HighRise We Are Going Down>(We Are Going Down) ID#401460:: Dow -225
NASDAQ -41
S&P -24

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:40
The Major @Pissed Gorillas(Bulls) In The Mist(Dark)>(@Pissed Gorillas(Bulls) In The Mist(Dark)) ID#372425:: What an interesting day.The spin-doctors are pulling out all the stops
now as the 200 DOW ( N ) mark was struck.No panic..buying opportunities....
no real affect long term...lets dig up the good news stories boys,can't
tell the folks what's really happening,wouldn't want to cause a pancake
now would we.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
George Cole the greenback>(the greenback) ID#42953:: Larryn: You are absolutely correct about the pivotal role of the dollar. This is the key variable. As long as the greenback holds up, declines in the U.S. stock market will be contained as will gold rallies. With the dollar down just a bit and bonds strong, today's action probably is not the beginning of the big bear for U.S. stocks or the big bull for gold. Rather just a continuation of the topping process for equities and the bottoming process for gold.

When U.S. stocks drop big time WITH BONDS AND THE DOLLAR FOLLOWING -- that will mark the start of the equity bear and the gold bull. I agree with D.A. that we probably will have to wait a few months for this scenario to begin. Still too soon to chase gold rallies.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
kiwi Prof. H/C>(Prof. H/C) ID#194311:: Come out of the closet and stop meowing...when do those trading stops come in on the DOW...-250 I wanna see that...32% and dropping like a turd.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
Arik down tick rule>(down tick rule) ID#255383:: Can someone confirm that the market closes for a half hour when dow declines 250 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
kiwi Prof. H/C>(Prof. H/C) ID#194311:: Come out of the closet and stop meowing...when do those trading stops come in on the DOW...-250 I wanna see that...32% and dropping like a turd.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
Arik down tick rule>(down tick rule) ID#255383:: Can someone confirm that the market closes for a holf hour when dow declines 250 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:24
John jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#252110:: Firms resist Year 2000 disclosure.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/118726.asp

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:23
LGB @CRash, metals not responding>(@CRash, metals not responding) ID#269409:: Interesting that XAU is barely up on moderate volume and Silver/Gold down as this 2% drop in our market takes place amidst the chaos overseas. Does this bode poorly for PM rally hopefulls?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:20
vronsky THE COVERT GOLD COST OF OIL by Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid>(THE COVERT GOLD COST OF OIL by Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid) ID#426220:: This study gives material support to ANOTHERs hypothesis that there is a definite relationship between stable oil prices and gold's dwindling value in past years - the LBMA mystery continues, albeit another onion-layer of subterfuge peeled back:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/gold_cost_oil.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:19
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: CYB- Your post was excellent. Well done and thought out. Thanks for posting it.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:16
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Ok -- I think what we need NOW is a very positive announcement from ANY of our junior gold companies of a very positive find. Publicity, publicity, publicity -- yes, that would get things going. So any juniors ( or majors for that matter ) monitoring this site, please feel free to get you press releases out TODAY.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:15
to kiwi are you feckless as well as flightless?>(are you feckless as well as flightless?) ID#374108:: Oh, Kiwi, where did it go so wrong?

Dow up 32% from the beginning of the year
Gold down 32% from the beginning of the year

When the Hong Kong market falls as much,
they call it a crash. What would you call it?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:12
LGB @Crash>(@Crash) ID#269409:: Glad I sold yesterday on a 2 day play, but any remaining stock bulls would buy today if they are REAL men!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:08
kiwi China shorting Hong Kong dollar?>(China shorting Hong Kong dollar?) ID#194311:: Makes sense....shake out all the western money and then swoop in and pick up the bargains...well and truly back in the fold then...Taiwan next on the block...hey maybe it's them all along...them and cowboy Soros...do the Muslims really have a death threat on his head? That would let Salmon Rush-to-die off the hook.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:08
John jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#252110:

Highrise,

Agree with you on your assessment of AG's predicament. He will have to allow some inflation to creep back in. To do anything to hold inflation in check would invite a premature market meltdown.

I caught an interview with Stephen Leeb on the Tony Brown Journal last Saturday. He was echoing your thoughts exactly. He is predicting an increase in inflation by either the end of this year or the first half of next year. He sees oil going up to as high as $50.00 a barrel. He was recommending energy sector stocks, gold stocks, small cap stocks, and zero coupon bonds or bond funds ( shades of Warren Buffet ) .

Lastly, he sees the market eventually crashing no matter what happens. All the Fed can do is postpone it, not prevent it.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:07
Elrod @my wits end>(@my wits end) ID#173274:: So who is selling silver in the midst of chaos? Can it be that some of our Asian friends are cashing in precious to buy cheao paper in the hope that the troubles are temporary?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:06
Cyb Jeddak CybJeddak@aol.com>(CybJeddak@aol.com) ID#287193:: LONG VIEW: Keynes said we would all be dead. Well, until then, the long view for the precious metals/hard assets & natural resource stocks is up & has been for quite some time now. The dynamics of the world economies & stock markets can be manipulated for a period of time, sometimes a long period of time. But man cannot negate overriding fundamental forces that long term move markets. The simple fact is that the U. S. has inflation & has had it for a long time. For example M3 is up 9% for the last 12 months. IF you watch it the next few months it is going to accelerate as interest rates are not raised & liquidity pours into the market. We are entering a period where the FED will not be proactive. The FED will only act after the fact with each new incremental increase in the inflation rate. This of course is monetary inflation that we are experiencing, true inflation. Contrary to what you hear or may think, we have been experiencing price inflation. It is the DOW Bull Market. I read recently that 1 oz. of gold would buy the DOW average in 1980. It now takes about 24 ozs. Though after today it will be somewhat less. There are only four things that can happen. 1 ) Gold price will rise to reflect real value in stocks. 2 ) DOW will plunge to equate its' value in gold. 3 ) Gold will rise & DOW will fall until an equilibrium is reached. 4 ) DOW will correct very sharply & gold will rise. Then, the DOW will begin to rise with gold rising at a faster rate. This would be rising markets attempting to stay ahead of inflation.

Gold made a low in Nov. of 1992 at $ 320. It tested again this year at $ 317. Now it seems to be testing again. My belief is that this is the bottom. There are many fundamental reasons. However, focus on one fact. At $ 320.00 many mines in production have already been closed. Fact is that South African gold production for the last quarter is off 100 tons from same quarter last year. Now if you are a Central Banker, Government Official, or anyone else with a reason to sell gold for the sake of holding the price down or making your books look good, you are willing to meet non production demand if it is 10% or about 33.3% as recently. But Are you willing to supply 50% plus of demand not met by mines that are closing? No of course not. You would be a fool. Therefore gold has a bottom & has reached it. Any significant decline say to $ 250 would be extremely bullish as it would shorten the time dramatically for a new bull market in gold to start & break out of the trading channel it has been in for so many years.

Many of the arguments in chat rooms pertaining to gold arise from a basic acknowledgement that one person is a day trader, another trades longer term, and some are buying on fundamentals to hold for long periods. Often a person does not state his investing strategy and from this disagreements arise even when sometimes all parties involved are in basic agreement.

Right now is the time to go long and hold precious metal stocks with very limited downside risk. Traders beware that we are reaching a range where gold may not break again to the downside as it has this trip down through the trading channel. No matter what your investing style, I wish the best for all.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:04
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: I wondered why Mike caller earlier than usual.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:01
JTF @the_turning_point -- $60T derivatives>(@the_turning_point -- $60T derivatives) ID#57232:: HighRise: Michael Metz doesn't seem to be speaking the party line -- how could he say that? He could spook the market! Seriously though, I think that really worries our AG. Over 1/3 - 1/2 of that $60T is unregulated OTC trading. Donald -- wait till you see what's happening -- China was the key after all!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:00
HighRise Thank you>(Thank you) ID#401237:: I stand corrected Jardine House is correct, Justine was a the name of one of my projects.
Thank You for the correction.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:00
Bird HK$ peg>(HK$ peg) ID#261444:: Tolerant1 Michael Metz just said the HK$ will float. Could be as early as tomorrow or this weekend.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:59
kiwi Now is the hour>(Now is the hour) ID#194311:: Over the top lads!...just not us chaps, cowardly Brits...we still remember gallipoli eh Nicks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:57 �� Ted and Nick(in-the-can)>(Ted and Nick(in-the-can)) ID#2082:: I bet they were leading the guerilla...er...GO-rilla charge

��

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:56
Bernatz de Ventadorm Mix_Up@Hong_Kong>(Mix_Up@Hong_Kong) ID#25028:: For Monsieur HighRise-

You make reference to zee House of Justine in
Hong Kong. I zeenk you meex everyzing. I remembair
House of JARDINE by gar.
Justine was a character in zee book by monsieur
Larry Durrell who I worked wiz in Provence on several
of hees novels.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:54 �� D.A.and.gorillas>(D.A.and.gorillas) ID#2082:: Some interesting analogies can be made at Kitco regarding that story. Strike a point for the GO-rillas...oh YES!

away...to beat the doors and windows...and shake the tree and see what falls out

��

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:53
HighRise 60 Trillion in Derivatives>(60 Trillion in Derivatives) ID#401237:: Michael Metz: The New Paradigm is over, there is 60 trillion in derivatives to unwind. Now a question of credit quality. Japan is really hurt by this

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:50
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:: HighRise: You are right about your point - re flight to quality. We do have a situation where there will be a desire ( short term, anyway ) to buy dollars ( Us treasurys ) as a place of safety. However, we have a problem when Hong Kong ( and China ) sell their reserve dollars, or ask for more dollars from the IMF or?
Which will it be -- flight to quality, or a flood of dollars? I am glad I'm not the Fed Chairman, and I am glad we've probably got the best one we've ever had -- we are going to need his guidance for what is coming.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:49
Comment nascondido>(nascondido) ID#265110:: Now kiwi, don't be so hard on the bugger ( er ) - maybe he was just trying to *polarize* the forum again...?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:48 �� Sorry Front>(Sorry Front) ID#2082:: Gold up 50.00�...er...50�...er...�buck...er...� two dollar bill...er...2 bits...er...a cup of coffee...er...not much...a small bag of M&M's...� fair on the N.Y. subway...the L.A. times...two cans of cat food ( on sale ) ...a box of cheese noodles...yes Front you are right...it is still 50�...sorry in delayed ( :- ) ) ...oh my!

away...to split hairs ;- )
��

well, now it's up 70�...hmmmmmmmm...a rally in the making?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:46
Neil Jo'Burg>(Jo'Burg) ID#38970:: Dow dropping again ( -174 ) . The only green ..... XAU up 0.9%.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:44
kiwi Hey Crapcat>(Hey Crapcat) ID#194311:: INDU 8300...Gold 310...where did it all go so wrong?
Don't upset those Swiss...they got all the Gold.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:41
D.A. a.great.story>(a.great.story) ID#7568:: http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/102297/health35_4714_noframes.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:36
Richard Burke @Sunny Gulf of Georgia>(@Sunny Gulf of Georgia) ID#411318:: A. Goose: re your 11:27. Go to www.avidtrader.com to Heads Up Page.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:35
Neil Jo'Burg>(Jo'Burg) ID#38970:: Very interesting. An hour ago the headline on cnn.com screamed about the Crash in Hong Kong saying the Hang Seng had crashed 10.41%. Supplementary articles in the financial section all referred to the crisis in Asia. The headline has now been changed to Dow in Asian Bear Hug and the Hang Seng shed 10.41%. No more supplementary articles about Asian panic! Makes you think doesn't it?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:35
HighRise Inflation or Deflation>(Inflation or Deflation) ID#401237:: A Goose: Utilities were at an all time High. That I felt may have been a warning sign. I still am not sure on this inflation/ deflation situation, there are many aspects to each direction. AG is between a rock and a hard spot - raise or not to rasie. I feel that this environment is potentually good for Gold. AG has now an 87 situation if he raises he puts the market into the toilet. And, if he doesn't we will have inflation i.e. Boeing etc.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:27
D.A. one.small.point>(one.small.point) ID#7568:: All:

Notice that the Southeast Asian currencies are strong in the face of the HongKong debacle. This tells me that the devaluation has run its course. At 20% per annum, the Rupiah still looks very good.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:17
Front EB>(EB) ID#338452:: ( :- ) )
EB:

Please stop doing what you're doing while posting the Gold prices ! You're really worrying me ! ( :- ) ) )

Gold is not up .50� .... It's up 50 cents .....

,50� is only � of a cent as in 1.50� is 1 ( point ) 50 cents then .50� is less than 1.00� ......

Not to worry, I see it in the stores all the time but ...... ( :- ) ) ) ) )

TTFN

Thanks in advance

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:13
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Minor point I am sure BUT utilities are down -2.44. As a leading indicator might not bode well for the bounds ?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:11
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: I say the HK$ is roadkill. I do not see the peg holding and it floats. Any comments

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:04
HighRise The Millennium>(The Millennium) ID#401237:: From last night

The Millennium
This item was just on the Tube - If Jesus the Christ was born in 4BC, as some have calculated, than today is the MILLENNIUM. Now that would explain everything.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:54
HighRise Where are the Brits when you need them?>(Where are the Brits when you need them?) ID#401237:: Flight to Quality the US, bonds, stocks, banks, etc. everything except commodities which is the only thing that is up - go figure? They are all trying to cover their ass.

Hong Kong bad news not over, no one knows were the bottom is, they may have to raise rates more. WE WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE TO COMPETE WITH THOSE RATES won't we?
They apparently have not used their reserves to support the currency. They have a huge reserve.
Hong Kong a different story what does that mean? Maybe they need to bring back The House of Justine. Bring back the Union Jack.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:42
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: panda :
What exactly does The TED ( Treasury-EuroDollar ) spread is around .91 mean. Sorry maybe its because I haven't got much sleep the last couple of days ( more likely I just don't understand ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:41
Skylark FWIW>(FWIW) ID#93130:: Today's behavior in gold is far from Bullish. With gold near its trend bottom and in view of incipient seasonal demand, the Asian currency crisis and fall in the DOW, gold should have jumbed a lot higher and should not have tailed off as it has. Stocks are also not doing that well, Many ie ABX substantially off from the highs of the day, and the secondaries are not moving at all. Thus, today's activity to time date, does not bode well for an imminent rally. Perhaps this is due to a reduction in physical demand from the East. As well known, it is the East, not the West, which is providing the physical demand for gold. With the fall of Asian currencies, as JIN as aptly informed us, funds available to purchase gold have been seriously reduced and it is now widely reported that the demand for gold rising from the East has been and will sharply be reduced during the second half of 97.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:36
panda @TED spread>(@TED spread) ID#30116:: The TED ( Treasury-EuroDollar ) spread is around .91. Is somebody lacking some confidence?

As EB would say... AWAY! To lunch............

Oil / Gold>(Oil / Gold) ID#401237:

I see that they are again selling more gold to keep the price of oil down. Pulling CRB down.

Buy the way interestrates were raised in asia last night.
NASDAQ not being hit particularly hard right now CNBC talking head @-30 looks like a pretty hard HIT to me.

-->

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:35
HighRise

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:33
BillD Kitco G/S prices?>(Kitco G/S prices?) ID#258427:: Has anyone ( besides me ) lost the display at the top of the screen of the Kitco Gold and Silver spot prices Whine!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:29 �� ��GOLD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>(��GOLD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ID#2082:: .50�

away...to mortgage my house
��

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:27
Larryn Bond rates>(Bond rates) ID#316232:: GARY.. Good comments on the early bond market being small enough to be manipulated. I have noticed this year that quite often as a metals rally starts to move, the next day opening bond rate is low and the rally fizzles. I have felt that these bond rallies were certainly convenient for someone who did not want gold to rally. You may have hit it on the head. Current rate at 6.33

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:27
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Would some the technical types cooment on the technical damage done to the Industrials assuming we close below or around 7900 today. I think it might be significant, but I need more experienced eyes.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:23
Bunker Hunt Senate Hearings>(Senate Hearings) ID#205268:: Senator, Me and my brother, Nelson, were only trying to by a little silver like my buddy Jerome Smith told me to do......No Senator, we were not trying to corner the market, just accumulating physical silver...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:21
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:: D.A.: Excellent 10:57 post. Appreciate your taking the time to explain to us what is happening on the other side of the world. You clearly understand the international situation. Any thoughts why gold is not going up more? My guess is that our AG is behind the scenes, trying to keep the turmoil from spreading to the shores of the western world.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:10 �� ......Thanks for the seasoned commentary.....>(......Thanks for the seasoned commentary.....) ID#2082:: D.A. - your 10:57 was a print. �GO man GO!

away
��

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:09
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: I find it most interesting that silver is posting a downward movement. Silver is not considered a money metal or a store of value. Gold is so misunderstood and silver even more so.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:05
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:: All: Who is pushing gold bullion down now? Is someone supporting the dollar? Or is is more subtle - is someone supporting the stock market?
Is this going to continue until 1998?
Interesting times we are in!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:04
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: DA - solid thinking, and I agree. I have already said I see $400 dollar gold by mid February, once she breaks $340 - $360 it's a slide into homeplate at $400 in my opinion. And that's if it takes that long.

The metals will join the exhubarence at long last and be revalued to come more in line with the rest of the universe.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:03 �� ��What's all the commotion>(��What's all the commotion) ID#2082:: I knew last night that the kitcoites would be hanging from the chandeliers this a.m. ( my a.m. ) . Now will you guys crawl down from such heights and resume your doom and gloom. When the dust settles today the only thing gained will be a headache and the uncontrollable urge to 'spew groceries'. Might I suggest you read Nick's 10:32. And let's w/w for the next few days to see what happens...good Lord...

Gold is a DOG...and if rallies...it will only be to 300-331 before it resumes it's usual course...in the elevator...to the basemant parking structures...

...how's that for hot-air mate ;- )

away...to buy the heng sang...er...hung song...er...hang seng...
��$

mornin' woodchucker...it's 2-2...and boiling...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:03
HighRise GE-Federal Reserve>(GE-Federal Reserve) ID#401237:: AL: Slimeballs is your word not mine. Who owns GE and the Federal Reserve? It is just business as usual. Read past posts on this site re this subject. A lot that is happening explains why they felt NAFTA was/is so important. Nationalism does not fit any more, it is now Continentalism.

Flight from tragedy US treasuries a safe haven Flight to quality
Excellent way to get people to buy bonds when you are about to raise interest rates.

We have no inventories, we don't make anything. China has all of the inventory - prices on goods will go even lower. How many pairs of tennis shoes do we need. Each baby boomer has 4 pair in the closet. not AP news. mine.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:57
D.A. some.thoughts>(some.thoughts) ID#7568:: All:

The most important point about today's action is the interest rate curve. As investors cash in their asset chips in Honk Kong and SE Asia, money is flowing into US debt. In addition to the direct effect of lower interest rates as a result of this capital flight, there is now an obvious impediment to the FED raising interest rates. Any rise in short rates here will only exacerbate the problem that the powers that be in Hong Kong have in trying to defend the currency peg. With Msrs. Greenspan et al accutely aware that a global market meltdown is a real possibility they will err on the side of caution. What this does is once again pour fuel on the economic fires that are burning brightly in this country. Lower rates, more liquidity, more growth = more inflation. The final act of this play does not occur until it is clear to the markets that inflation has really arrived. With the CRB and the GSCI moving strongly of late this should not be too long. The rise in metals prices which we are all looking for will be as a result of this inflation and the subsequent unwinding of our asset bubble. As has been the case with all the Southeast Asia countries, when your asset bubble deflates so does your currency. The price of your real estate and stocks goes down in world terms but the price of worldwide tradeable stuff ( commodities ) goes soaring. So too will it be here in the good ole USA.

Along these lines we have just had a rate cut in China and one in South Africa. The rate cut in China is quite significant and will likely boost GDP in that country in the coming quarters. With the Hong Kong debacle underway there may be more cuts in the offing so as to supply liquidity to that market. The model for all this activity is 1987-1989. In that period of time the central bankers supplied copious quantities of money to stave off any sort of deflationary collapse. In doing so they created extremely strong economic environments resulting in the asset bubble in Tokyo and inflationary pressures throughout the world. The same will likely occur today.

When our bubble finally does go pop and the dollar with it, we will be treated to the same problems as are now occuring in Asia. Declining local asset prices ( stocks, real-estate, etc ) and rising commodity prices due to the declining dollar. This double whammy will be the flip side of the virtuous cycle we have seen here for many years.

I don't believe the major decline in the stock market will occur until the bond market wakes up and notices the incipient inflation. The market collapses in Southeast Asia have served to postpone this day, although it is rapidly approaching. Look for the stocks to grind sideways while the bond market digests the cross currents but ultimately focuses on rising prices. The endgame should play out over the next 3-6 months. Between now and then commodities should continue to rise.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:56
jfklasjf jfdklas;>(jfdklas;) ID#251213:: Since the Canadian dollar is up; the up move in gold is real

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:55
Gary gary30@ix.netcom.com>(gary30@ix.netcom.com) ID#424231:: US Bond market is easy to manipulate! Overnight, volume is some 15,000 contracts. During US trading volume is about 500,000. Lets see if they can keep prices up. I bet they cannot ( notice the gradual decline ) !

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:54
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Talking heads of CNBC plus all those shown on CNBC saying all is well and market has bounced quite nicely. Industrials -123 at the moment low was 7858 now 7910. The day is young though - may be lower than they think.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:54
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: The world is awash with dollars, the biased entertainment paradigm machine is running full speed. Don't hold your breath until the 29th with Mr. Greenspan having already made his position clear.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:53
Larryn XAU quote>(XAU quote) ID#316232:

For those asking about the XAU quote, I use a bookmark set to :
http://www.tscn.com/wsc/timespan.html?TSym=XAU.X?106,15

It provides a graph of the last few days and an up-to-date accurate XAU value.

10:49
HighRise

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:46 Al ---->(----) ID#257114:: Good point HighRise. I'm sure there has to be some group of slimeballs at GE with that objective.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:46
Larryn ...>(...) ID#316232:: As much as I enjoy riding my gold stocks up, the Dow slide will not be a collapse unless there is a flight away from the dollar, and this morning is seeing a return TO the dollar. Long term bond is up, rate was down from 6.42 to 6.29, now rising to 6.33. I agree with George Cole that this rally is not the big one unless the Dow craters and so far I don't see that happening yet. XAU and gold stocks jumped, but Joberg gold is level and there is no international flight to the metals yet. Don't bet your a... just yet.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:46 Al ---->(----) ID#257114:: Good point HighRise. I'm sure there has to be some group of slimeballs at GE with that objective.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:45
Gary gary30@ix.netcom.com>(gary30@ix.netcom.com) ID#424231:: HighRise ( CNBC ) ID#401237 I agree with you! What is your email address?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:40
Amnesty @?>(@?) ID#251165:: URL dont work

) ID#401237:

CNBC Remember who their Boss is, GE and the boys.
This is turning into a good way to sell Bonds that are worthless. I was wondering how they were going to keep selling 50 Billion a week.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:39
George S Cole for president of the Heavily into Denial Club>(of the Heavily into Denial Club) ID#43496:: On a significant day like today, most of
the pundits' initial commentary will prove to
be incomplete or quite simply wrong.

Here is an observation, however, that will prove
to be the most remarkable shift in thinking
this century:

The flight to quality did not include gold

Face it, you lost

Oh, and one more thing:

Gold to $310 by 10/23/97
Dow to 8300 by 10/23/97

George - I could take your dismissal more
seriously if you: a ) weren't such a milquetoast
and b ) had a better track record. Your most recent
prediction ( Dow to drop by 1000 points ) was a lot
more incorrect than mine was, and you have already
conceded to Oldman that you were incorrect about
the Dow topping out for good in August.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:32
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: LATEST - WHY HK STOCKS CRASH? ( 23 OCT 97 )
http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~viclim/inv00010.htm

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:29
elf silver>(silver) ID#33180:: Look at silver drop. Ouch. Could that be Asians raising some cash by selling an asset with some value? Or PM traders raising cash to jump on the gold bandwagon? Anybody know?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:27
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:

If you were getting hammered owning paper of any kind, and you we're Asian, would you buy more paper? Or as the Asians have done for thousands of years...buy metal.

The Asians are not too happy with the US right now, makes for an interesting trip for the Chinese fellow coming to the States.

Interesting with all of the talk about supplies and all that silver is the only one of the metals moving down on the chart above your screens. It is even more interesting when you consider that the planet knows silve is the single most volitile of the metals.

This debacle has not even touched the tip of the iceberg.

CNBC and other talking heads, plus brokers across the country are telling people even if the Asian markets stay down for a year or two it's effect on the US would be minimal at best. Buy tech stocks, buy the value found in strong companies in the tech sector which have real value now that they have been traded down is the advice of the day from the experts.

I pity the people that listen to them. Does the word whipsaw mean anything?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:26
Eager Novice .>(.) ID#158273:: *jaw dropping as the spot prices begin dropping!*

Gee...maybe I dont understand as much as I thought I did! Can anyone explain this to me

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:26
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: http://avidtrader.com/opinion/heads-up.htm
Buyer's Remorse 101. Last week's trading offered several gap opens that were only met with selling, a lesson in retail promotions that are designed to mass-distribute product to the consumer. If our expectation that this bounce will lead to lower lows, then this week's lesson will be one that readers should already understand, Buyer's Remorse. The sales process has begun, and can be better understood by remembering back to one's last auto purchase. watch this hairpin turn, the salesman says, as a 180-point intra-day decline is more than halved in just hours. And check that odometer, you hear as Friday's late-afternoon 110-point rally from the lows adds 75 more points on Monday and then 140 on Tuesday. You almost wish there were no breaks so that you can enjoy this ride forever.

The bumps in the road ahead are visible to the eye, but you convince yourself that a car this luxurious will absorb any discomfort. So you make the purchase, and by the time you drive off of the lot the dark of the evening has arrived. Fumbling for the headlights ( for some reason the salesman never pointed them out ) , you find the switch and turn it. Nothing. You've entered traffic and knowing that the lights will surely respond within moments, you keep driving. But all of that fumbling is distracting, and a truck entering traffic neither notices nor is noticed. An extreme case of Buyer's Remorse is about to occur.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:25
George Cole volume>(volume) ID#42953:: Panda: High XAU volume very positive if maintained. Looks like the dips will grow shallower and shallower.

I still do not think gold will surge big time today unless the market really tanks ( Dow off 500 points or so ) . But our day isn't far off.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:19
Ted @ cordwood>(@ cordwood) ID#364147:: Time ta carry more cordwood into the basement ( it could be a looong winter ) ...BBL kiddies...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:16
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: BBL

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:14
ERNEST @ replyville>(@ replyville) ID#224228:: Just CNBC workin off a boner.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:14 Al ---->(----) ID#257114:: Does anyone here get the feeling that all this $$$ coming out of Asia may find a place over here in the US markets?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:13
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: Looks like we found some support here, $PREM is bouncing here. It will be interesting to see what the XAU/HUI do if there is a recovery of sorts here.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:13
StarShine CNBC Comments>(CNBC Comments) ID#285298:

Intstead of citing the XAU advace, CNBC chose to higlight the action of only a couple of XAU stocks. At this time, the only index positive is XAU. The bond is said to be where the flight to quality is occuring.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:12
Eager Novice *sitting in the back - watching with fascination*>(*sitting in the back - watching with fascination*) ID#158273:: *mumbling to the person next to me*

Shouldnt we be seeing Kitko's gold and silver spot prices responding to this rout by now?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:12
Norbert The Nark a grim day!>(a grim day!) ID#382159:: Things is so grim I gotta get STONED!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:10
sig sig@remington>(sig@remington) ID#287389:: Gorge Cole:

Re: your 9:47 post

Reasoned, unemotional advice!

Thanks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:10
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: Just ask yourself this question, Who is doing the selling here? Is it the Europeans and Asians? Are they exiting our markets? Who will be left holding the 'bag' if this is true? I know what I want in my 'bag'...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:09
steady voodoo-hits -the-fan>(voodoo-hits -the-fan) ID#285233:: MEN, remember the constipated CNBC anchers' famous comment this morning:
Bonds are way up:the flight to quality is under way!!!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:07
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: Volume looks good for the 'Majors' in the golds.

ABX 408K+
PDG 239K+
HM 200K+

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:06
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: CNBC grudgingly admitted that the only group up IS THE GOLD GROUP. BUT not much they said and it shows that gold isn't favored like it used to be. Boy are they working the issue.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:06
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:: Dow down 179 and Long Bond up 1 + 4/32....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:04
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: Hell of a bear candle on the 15 minute Dow chart....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:04 Al ---->(----) ID#257114:: Thanks guys. I love days like this....Hope there will be plenty more.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:02
panda @XAU>(@XAU) ID#30116:: 106.91 most gold stocks in the plus by 1/4 or more. They don't seem to be losing ground. Oil stocks not doing that well.. Tech stocks? Oh well.... my regrets to those owners.....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
elf XAU>(XAU) ID#33180:: Al: 107.05 +2.11

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Al:

xau is at 107.05 up +2.11 at this moment.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
Richard Burke @the Gulf of Georgia>(@the Gulf of Georgia) ID#411318:: To all: Careful, Dec gold at resistance after bounce up this morning. Dec silver back down to where it started after it's bounce up. This may not yet be the start.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Panda how many waves down on the dow tonight 3, 4, or 5

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:59
elf whipsaw>(whipsaw) ID#33180:: panda: The Dow, after opening down over 100, is now UP 5! The Dippers are busy today! IBM down about 2.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:59
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: $PREM just hit the skids again....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:59 Al ---->(----) ID#257114:: XAU?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:58
panda @correction>(@correction) ID#30116:: UVOL = 3.5 million
DVOL = 61.6 million

AND I DON'T believe any of these numbers now. They're moving very strangely. Must be a big backup of data and oders....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:56
PISSED AS A FART @ slaughterhouse asia (I love that name)>(@ slaughterhouse asia (I love that name)) ID#221240:: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHW@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:56
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: I'm showing down volume at 47.2 million and up volume at 2.6 million shares on the NYSE.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:55
Lurker @the_floor>(@the_floor) ID#241149:: Cherokee:
Are you ready to catch the little grey men...
BLL

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:55 Al ---->(----) ID#257114:: What is the XAU doing right now?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:54
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: elf -- I thought something like that was going on... It seemed to 'slow' at the open. The volume was there, but the prices didn't seem to make sense based the S&P futures.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:51
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: Japan is considering tax incentives for stock options! Talk about trying to support the bubble!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:50
Varvara Aladdin@Javanet.com>(Aladdin@Javanet.com) ID#428142:: 23 Oct 1997

More turmoil until
problems tackled: experts

Asian markets hit by waves
of fund redemptions

SBC Warburg forecasts
2% growth for S'pore in
'98
�

Hongkong defends US$ peg but
fears mount it will snap

Interest rates soar, Hang Seng crashes 6.17% to 11,637.77

From Loh Hui Yin in Hongkong and Larry Wee in Singapore

ONGKONG's leaders yesterday rejected an unprecedented call by the
business community to delink the Hongkong dollar's peg to the US
greenback, even as interest rates soared and stock prices crashed for the
third day, this time by 6.17 per cent to 11,637.77 points.

Financial Secretary Donald Tsang, describing the Hongkong dollar as rock solid,
said: There is absolutely no pressure for me to move the link in any way. Any
speculation that I would do so, or even considering doing so because of export
reasons, is nonsense.

As regional currencies continue to plummet, the fixed HK dollar has eroded the
relative competitiveness of Hongkong exports and its tourism industry. This
prompted a call by James Tien, chairman of the Hongkong General Chamber of
Commerce, for a re-think on the peg -- the first time the business community has
questioned the 14-year-old link to the US dollar.

Mr Tien, a member of the provisional legislative council, was quoted by The South
China Morning Post as saying: Our manufacturing orders for January, February
and March next year have been slow in coming. Customers say they have shifted
their purchases to South-east Asian currencies because they are much cheaper, a
discount of 5 to 10 per cent.

But Financial Secretary Mr Tsang dismissed this, saying: Minor fluctuations, or
fluctuations of the kind we have seen in the currency market, would not affect
Hongkong's export potential or growth potential in a very big way.

Pointing out that the peg has served Hongkong well for the past 14 years, he said
the regional currency crisis has reinforced his conviction that it must be maintained.

We have, as you know, reserves of 80 odd billion US dollars ( S$126.8 billion ) .
We have no debt, said Mr Tsang after he opened a conference on China's service
industries yesterday morning.

He added that Hongkong investors were mature and should not heed the negative
comments of second-rate analysts.

Hongkong's chief executive, Tung Chee-hwa, speaking in London, was quoted by
news agencies as saying: Interest rates may have to go up in the process of
defending the currency. There is no reason for our currency to devalue.

But analysts appear less sure now that the peg will survive, following the recent fall
of two other key North Asian currencies, the New Taiwan dollar and the South
Korean won. As the only major Asian currency left with a fixed peg to the US
dollar, speculators have been betting that the peg of HK$7.8 to the US dollar will
snap if it becomes too costly to defend. In mid-July, the Hongkong Monetary
Authority ( HKMA ) spent US$1 billion to repel a lone speculator.

Traders have reported that some hedge funds have not only sold the Hongkong
dollar but have also piled up on HK dollar liquidity in the money market.
Yesterday's Hongkong dollar's one-year forward rate, which fixes the exchange rate
a year from now, went up further to HK$8.02 to the US dollar, reflecting the
highest risk premium in a long while.

Some analysts see the Hongkong government as being in a no-win situation. If
they keep on defending the currency peg, interest rates will rise, and that will hurt
the stock market, Bloomberg News quoted fund manager Christina Cheung as
saying. If they don't defend the peg, there will be capital flight and the impact will
also be disastrous. Ms Cheung added: Why should Hongkong be immune to a
currency devaluation? The cost of defending it is very high.

David Wong, ABN-Amro's treasury head for China and Hongkong, told BT that
Hongkong dollar purchases by the HKMA to defend its US dollar peg continued to
suck liquidity out of the system, pushing interest rates up into double-digit territory.
Against a prime rate of 8.75 per cent, we now have three and six-month interest
rates at 11.5 per cent, which is the cost of defending the peg. This will have a
punishing effect on property players, and therefore the stock market. An estimated
40% of the bourse's capitalisation is property-related.

The result yesterday was that equity investors stampeded to get out of the Hongkong
stockmarket from the opening bell, sending the Hang Seng Index down a whopping
6.17 per cent or 765.33 points to close at 11,637.77 on a turnover of HK$23.5b.

Does the market exist? Not the way they were selling today. It's like there won't be
a market tomorrow, said an institutional dealer.

Interest-rate sensitive finance and property stocks bore the brunt of the selling
frenzy, with the property sub-index falling by as much as 11 per cent or a drop of
2,185 points. Also hit were red chips and H shares when a rumoured flow of funds
from China to support the stock market did not materialise.

On the implications of a break with the US dollar, Tan Tian Seng, general manager
of Tat Lee Bank's Hongkong branch, said: This is certainly not the time to talk
about a de-link of the currency from the US dollar. It would come too quickly after
the transition. We know the peg is there to ensure stability after the transfer of
sovereignty.

Barclays' head of Asian currency research, Desmond Supple, summed up the views
of many when he told BT: It's really a test of Hongkong's political will now.

� Copyright Singapore Press Holdings Ltd, 1997. All rights reserved.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:50
elf no quotes>(no quotes) ID#33180:: panda: Trading curbs are in place at the open. Most S&P 500 stocks can't open due to order imbalance. Expect a much lower opening price on IBM and its index buddy stocks when the specialist finally finds a buy price at which to absorb the sell orders.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:49
panda @XAU>(@XAU) ID#30116:: 107 taken out on the XAU....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:46
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: After El Reno goes after MSFT, it seems as though the Japanese government think it's a good idea too! So they're looking in to MSFT now....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:46
George Cole gold outlook>(gold outlook) ID#42953:: Ralph: Gold should do well today, but I doubt if a big surge is in the offing. The powers that be will be going all out to nip any rally in the bud. And it will take time to shatter investor confidence in U.S. financial assets. Many will see today's stock selloff as simply another buying opportunity. My strategy still is to buy the gold mutual funds on dips and not chase rallies.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:44
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: DBC is still not showing me a real time quote for IBM.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:44 2 @wonderin...>(@wonderin...) ID#194225:: Is this the Big One?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:44
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: GCZ7 gap up and breaking out ( :- ) ) ) ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:43
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: It's most bizare to watch this in real time! Talk about a controlled implosion............ Dow down 127.7 Nasdaq off 43+ ... It seems to be dropping in fits and starts. Looking for buyers or is it the curbs?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:42
vronsky Nikkei Breaks 17000 on GLOBEX 10-MINUTE>(Nikkei Breaks 17000 on GLOBEX 10-MINUTE) ID#426220:: Per GLOBEX at 08:01 today Nikkei Stock Average BROKE BELOW important support level... and now stands at 16980! Some Technical Analysts look to 14000 for next strong support.

Many market mavens have commented that below 17000 the Nippon Banking structure will begin to crumble, forcing banks to call in loans, forcing debtors to sell stocks and Real Estate ( loan collateral ) . This will obviously put additional pressure on the Nikkei as prices spiral down and feed on themselves. Looks like the ORACLE's observation is right on the money: Japanese Survival is indeed Between a Rock and a Hard Spot. Consequently, Japanese financial institutions led by the BOJ will be forced to dump liquidate their massive holdings of US Treasury bonds, AND MOST PROBABLY BUY GOLD PER PRIME MINISTER HASHIMOTO'S THREAT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY EARLIER THIS YEAR. ORACLE's article series may be seen at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle627.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:39
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:: What's the consensus? Gold up, dollar up, bonds up, market down?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:39 CC goldbug@ormetal.com>(goldbug@ormetal.com) ID#333303:: The stocks have always lead the metals, often by several months. This time is no different. The low was in April/July, and again the stocks are stronger and showing the way up. Silver and silver stocks are performing much better and will continue to do so. Pick up your horses..

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:37 2 @wild predictions>(@wild predictions) ID#194225:: Bullion: +4 samoleans.
XAU: +3.5

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:34
George Cole World Gold Council>(World Gold Council) ID#42953:: New from the World Gold Council:

Gold Portfolio Letter

No. 1 - September 1997

Gold and the Stock
Market:
A Negative Correlation

During this period of continual strength in the
stock market and weakness in the gold price, many
portfolio managers may question what role, if any,
gold can play in a portfolio.

�
We all witnessed the Dow's recent climb above 8,000, just
seven months after it topped 6,000. According to most
methods of stock valuation the market is at a high level. For
instance, P/E ratios are high and dividend yields are low by
historical standards. In contrast to today's high level of
equity prices, the gold price is perceived as being at a
relatively low level. Thus, the upside potential for gold
appears to be greater than the downside. These two thoughts
- high stock prices and low gold prices - are captured in the
chart below. This in turn begs the question: When will the
stock market next revert to the mean? ( that is, move
downward ) and when will gold move up?

�
Regardless of whether you are a bull or a bear, the mere
threat of a correction should alert you to the advantages of
diversifying a portfolio into alternative assets such as gold.

Why is gold such a helpful portfolio diversifier? The reason
is basic: the economic forces which determine the price of
gold are different from, and in many cases opposite to, the
forces which determine the price of financial assets. As
previously noted, when equities go up, the gold market tends
to go down-and vice-versa.

Indeed, if you are specifically concerned about a stock market
turn down, you may be aware that gold is an excellent hedge
- the most negatively-correlated asset to U.S. equities.

Furthermore, the chart below shows that gold is
negatively-correlated not only with U.S. equities but also
with most other asset classes. No other asset class can make
such a claim.

Whatever way you look at it, gold is definitely an excellent
scientific portfolio diversifier. It is superior to conventional
diversifiers such as bonds and put options. These subjects
will be covered in future editions of the Gold Portfolio
Letter.

For additional information contact:
Richard Scott-Ram, Economic Advisor
World Gold Council
900 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Tel. +212 688 0005, Fax. +212 371 5466
Or by e-mail: Daphne Bloore: DBloore@compuserve.com

�

The World Gold Council is a non-profit association of gold producers world-wide, with
headquarters in Geneva and offices in major markets around the world. The countries
monitored by the Council account for approximately 80% of global gold demand.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:34
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:: Long Bond up 1 + 18/32....Dow falling like a rock ( 17 ) with most Dow stox not opened yet....Nasdaq down 39...Dow down 25

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:31
arden ardengold@msn.com>(ardengold@msn.com) ID#201238:: Today we get to see how well the trading curbs work! My bet is they prolong they agony.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:30
Ralph nwmadras@ix.netcom.com>(nwmadras@ix.netcom.com) ID#403231:: Gold and silver price predictions...anyone want to guess today's action?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:28
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Not one mention from CNBC about gold rising in this crisi. They have only mentioned flight to treasuries. It will be hard to ignore rise in XAU once market opens -- I would imagine ( hope ) .

Marie ( CNBC ) talking now mentioning possible up stocks - not one gold stock mentioned. duPont, Viking office USAir are the stocks she mentioned as possible up stocks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:26
Ted @ Long Bond>(@ Long Bond) ID#364147:: Long Bond UP 1 + 13/32......three minutes till opening bell ( DONG )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:23
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: It's not often that you see this page all in red! http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/Stocks/

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:21
visiting (overload?)>((overload?)) ID#424452:: Folks: might I humbly suggest that posting of large news articles might clog up this site. Posting just the URL might be better. I'd like to keep watching here today!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:21
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: Talk about irony! As the sell-off continues and the Dollar gets stronger, those currencies linked to the Dollar come under more pressure to de-link from the Dollar. Yes, the currency gyrations have begun anew. And just remember, like any good liberal will tell you, Everything is relative... there are no absolutes. :- ) ) We shall see.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:19
nomercy Japan selling US bonds>(Japan selling US bonds) ID#390214:: VIEWPOINT: FOREIGN TREASURY DEMAND SLOWS
IN JULY

The U.S. Treasury has released the preliminary July data on foreign purchases and sales of
long-term Treasury securities. The data reveal a sharp decrease in the pace of net purchases in
July relative to the average for the year due, most likely, to hedge fund selling and fallout from the
SE Asian currency crisis. Net purchases for July were $5.2 billion, vs. $25.1 billion in June and a
$19.6 billion monthly average for this year.

The following outlines Treasury purchases by the top holders through July: The slowdown in net
Treasury purchases cut across both official institutions and private accounts. Private purchases
declined to $7.3 billion in July from $13.8 billion in June. Official institutions were net sellers of
$2.5 billion in July, vs. $10.1 billion net purchases in June.

The largest net buyer in July was Germany, whose holdings increased by $6.5 billion following the
$1.4 billion net purchases in May. The UK was the second largest net buyer, although its
purchases declined to $3.0 billion from $4.9 billion in June, and these figures are well below the
1997 average of $6.4 billion. Overall, Europe remained a strong net buyer of Treasuries. Net
purchases from Europe were $12.2 billion -- a solid increase over the $10.4 billion level in June
and the $10.1 billion average for the year. Other strong buyers in Europe included Spain and the
Benelux countries.

Japanese demand for Treasuries decelerated in July, with a decline in net purchases to $2.6
billion. This was well below both the $6.0 billion level reported for June and the $5.1 billion
average for 1997. Overall, Asia was a net seller of Treasuries for the first time this year. July net
sales of $3.3 billion brought average net purchases for 1997 down to $8.8 billion. Nearly all
Southeast Asian countries remained net sellers of Treasuries in July due, most likely, to ongoing
regional currency troubles, and official sales of dollar-denominated securities to free resources for
support of domestic currencies. Large Asian sellers of Treasuries included mainland China ( -$1.8
billion ) , Malaysia ( -$1.3 billion ) , Singapore ( -$0.7 billion ) , and Taiwan ( -$0.6 billion ) .

The Caribbean banking centers ( known mainly for hedge fund activity ) were net sellers of
Treasuries in July, accelerating the downtrend in purchases from June. Bermuda was the only
buyer noted in the region, pulling in $1.8 bln in July after selling $1.4 billion in June. The
Netherland Antilles and the British West Indies led the list of sellers, shedding $4.1 billion and
$1.1 billion, respectively.

MMS expects little near-term change in the composition of demand for Treasuries. Steady
growth, dollar strength, and benign inflationary pressures should help maintain a healthy global
demand for Treasuries. Despite recent European interest rate hikes, existing yield differentials
should continue to support foreign purchases of Treasuries.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:19
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Thanks Panda. Makes sense. Not enough sleep I guess.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:17
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Ok. I get volume of 4,294,967,144 for $325.2 at 614 PST from Quote.com. That seems like an unbelieveable volume ... probably a mistake Could have help on this one.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:16
panda @>(@) ID#30116:: A.Goose -- Try this URL for the futures. It's delayed about half an hour. It looks like about 19,000+ contracts so far.
http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/core/dbc/squote.htx?SOURCE=core%2Fdbc&TICKER=pa%3Dz7+pl%3Df8+gc%3Dz7+si%3Dz7+cl%3Dz7&tables=table&format=fractions

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:13
223 fireside chat>(fireside chat) ID#263259:: In today's bonfire of the vanities I'm just here to roast marshmallows.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:13
panda @!!!>(@!!!) ID#30116:: Spin control has started in the business news, The good news is that Bonds are up! Such good news. I've said for the last year plus, Wouldn't it be funny if the interest rates came down and the stock market 'corrected'. :- )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:11
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: George cole or Anyone else:
Can you give us the volume that is trading in the gold pits this morning. Volume I got does not sompute.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:08
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: They will fight gold hard today. Buy your gold while it still is at these levels. Once it starts its move up, I don't think it is going to step back for anyone to pick it up at these bargin prices. IMHO.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:05
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: MachF15:
I just got them off of CNBC as the announced them.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:02
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Ever have that feeling in your gut when you look over the edge of a.....
Nick @Cairns luv them ANZ puts CBA too plus...

....my precious

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:02
Ray raydm@iamerica.net>(raydm@iamerica.net) ID#411149:: The CNBC cast look ill today and Mark Hanes looks like he has terminal
meltdown disease!

Hey cherokee, looks like you are right on target!
Deer season starts this Saturday and then I hope to finish the book you recommended I read A Rich Man's Secret. For those that don't know what
I mean, still hunting offers a good time to catch up on my reading pile
while waiting for the big buck to show.

Tally Ho

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:57
MachF15 machf15@nicom.com>(machf15@nicom.com) ID#275253:: A.Goose,
Where do you get you S$P futures quotes from?

MachF15

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:56
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: Thursday October 23 7:05 AM EDT

U.S stocks in London fall, Dow seen hit by HK woes

LONDON, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - U.S. stocks were marked down across the board on Thursday as investors braced for a weaker opening in New York after Hong Kong's dramatic plunge continued.

``The markets are in complete turmoil,'' said one trader. ``Sentiment is changing and we expect to see selling pressure at the start taking 80-100 points off the Dow.''

European bourses suffered in the aftermath of Hong Kong's slide, following the Hang Seng's worst ever points loss. Soaring local interest rates and fears of a run on the Hong Kong dollar were blamed for the crisis.

The Hang Seng has lost about a third of its value since the beginning of the month whilst the Dow has continued to notch up record highs.

``The early indication is that the Hong Kong turmoil will hit the Dow today,'' another dealer said. ``On most occasions Wall Street leads other markets but today it will be the other way around.''

``There are some huge, huge companies in the States with Asian exposure, we have already seen some hi-techs suffer in these markets during this quarter.''

The December S&P index future was trading 14.4 points lower by 1042 GMT but in a ``flight to quality'' the December T-bond future rose more than a point.

``U.S. bonds are up heavily, we are seeing a flight to quality,'' said a dealer. ``But though there is usually a big correlation between bonds and stocks, as yet the move in bonds is not spilling over.''

``Everybody is waiting to see what the Americans make of Hong Kong,'' he added. ``Their economy is doing very well and the U.S. market is usually very blinkered...but our clients are getting nervous, wondering if this is the start of something global.''

Among individual share features in London, traders said activity remained slim.

``Corporate news has gone out of the window this morning and not surprisingly, nobody wants to put up prices, its a very nervy market.''

``But the Americans have been tuned into buying on dips recently, so let's see if they do that this afternoon.''

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:55
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: Thursday October 23 7:43 AM EDT

Hong Kong sacrifices economy to currency link

By Sarah Davison

HONG KONG, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - Hong Kong will have to raise interest rates even higher to defend the Hong Kong dollar link to the U.S. currency, sacrificing its economy in favour of long-term financial stability, economists said.

Thursday's stock market crash, the largest one-day fall in history, left confidence in tatters as regional currency jitters jacked up Hong Kong rates.

Economists are cutting economic growth forecasts and waiting for the next major development with markets buckling under the interest rate burden exacted by the Hong Kong dollar peg.

``If the negative approach to the Hong Kong market continues for a protracted period of a few weeks, we're looking for a pretty rough 1998,'' said Ian Perkin, chief economist at the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce.

The blue chip Hang Seng index ended 1,211.47 points or 10.41 percent lower at 10,426.30. The index has shed more than 23 percent in the last four trading sessions, plunging as interest rates soared. One-month interbank rates reached 47 percent while overnight money leapt to 250 percent.

But economists said rates will have to rise even higher to maintain a defence of the Hong Kong currency, which has been linked to the U.S. dollar at a rate of HK$7.80 since 1983.

``The peg to the U.S. dollar, with U.S. dollars fully funding the Hong Kong currency, will stay,'' said Jan Lee, chief economist at Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corp.

``The net result is that interest rates will go up in the immediate term by at least 0.5 percentage points, and down the road even higher,'' he said.

Higher rates will trash the stock and property markets, depressing the entire economy just months after Hong Kong returned to China after 156 years of British colonial rule.

Lee has cut his 1998 economic growth forecast to 4.75 percent from 5.5 percent, becoming one of the few Hong Kong economists brave enough to identify clear economic targets in an uncertain outlook. Some said they had a variety of forecasts depending on a number of different scenarios.

``Our assumption is the peg still holds but the degree of damage inflicted varies,'' said Michael Taylor, economist at broker W.I. Carr.

And the degree of damage depends largely on how long interest rates remain high.

``How long is a piece of string?'' asked Perkin. ``Once these things start it's very difficult to put a time on them.''

Attempts by Hong Kong banks to restrict outflow of domestic capital by refusing to redeem time deposits before maturity were criticised as the wrong route to recovery.

Although the measures could help to prevent the mass exit of domestic capital -- considered the only serious threat to the currency link -- economists said they would heighten nervousness by undermining the established market mechanism.

``The way a currency board works, if people don't want to hold your currency, you raise rates until they do,'' said Don Hanna, chief economist at Goldman Sachs.

``Ultimately you're going to have to raise rates ... If you circumvent the process it only delays ( recovery ) .''

Hanna joined other economists predicting a severe dent in Hong Kong's property market bubble -- something that could ultimately work to the territory's advantage.

``The issue of competitiveness and the cost of doing business in Hong Kong -- clearly the rise in interest rates is going to have an impact on that,'' Hanna said.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:53
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:: Thursday October 23 7:45 AM EDT

N.Y. metal futures opening forecasts

NEW YORK, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - New York metals futures were called to open as follows:

COMEX Dec gold - up $2.00 an ounce

COMEX Dec silver - up 4.0 cents

NYMEX Jan platinum - up $1.00

NYMEX Dec palladium - up $1.00

COMEX Dec copper - up 0.10 to 0.20 cent a lb

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:53
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Look at that nice kitco 24 hour gold chart as it heads into wall street.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:52
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Gold 324.25

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:41
Ted @ Dec. Gold>(@ Dec. Gold) ID#364147:: Up 1.90

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:34
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: If Yahoo is correct and up to date we've got a Kraut meltdown ( -4.66% ) and a Pommie ho-hum ( -.60% ) . I would have thought the reverse with the greater British exposure to Hong Kong. Any comment from wiser souls

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:31
vronsky THE GOLDBUG IS THINKING SILVER>(THE GOLDBUG IS THINKING SILVER) ID#426220:: Acclaimed Compuserve Gold & Silver King has returned from the North Woods to share his considerable wisdom. He's found a pure silver play worth watching:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/goldbug903.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:26
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Ted--I only get drunk on days when I make a lot of money. I'm sober as a church mouse right now!!!

DAX -4.66%
Poms have come back FT-SE -.70%
J'burg gold + .90%

That's IF you believe Yahoo!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:21
panda @Uh Oh...>(@Uh Oh...) ID#30116:: Cascade failure

BBL.........

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:19
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Nick:
Yes Woodside has been very good to me. I just have a tiny amount but I am happy with it. I also have Westgold and ofcourse, I am not quite so happy with it so far, BUT what the hey.

I am running out of steam - only got 2 hours sleep last night. Guess I will search out some coin dealers in the San Francisco area today. Maybe buy bulk silver coins.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:19
Ted @ Nick(C)>(@ Nick(C)) ID#364147:: Are YOU flippin out mate? and to include EB in the attack too ( tsk tsk tsk ) ---are ya a nasty drunk

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:15
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Sorry Ted-- that was the Victoria Bitter talkin' It's 10:15 pm here and it was a loooooooong day on the markets, mate. I've still got my ass ( ets ) intact--but only just!!! I want to THANK the feller what invented PUTS!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:09
Ted @ WSJ + Hang Seng>(@ WSJ + Hang Seng) ID#364147:: Hot off the press:
October 23, 1997

Hang Seng Index Drops 10%,
Triggered by Economic Fears

An INTERACTIVE JOURNAL News Roundup

Hong Kong stocks suffered their worst fall in a decade Thursday in a burst
of panic selling triggered by sharply higher interest rates and fears that the
vibrant Hong Kong economy may be rocked by turmoil elsewhere in Asia.

The key blue-chip index, the Hang Seng, fell as much as 14% in early
trading before recovering slightly to close off 1211.47, or 10%, to
10426.30, its lowest level in 19 months. The index has shed a total of
23% this week.

Hong Kong's tumble hammered Tokyo's Nikkei Stock Average, which
dropped 3%. Share prices also were battered in Malaysia, Singapore,
Indonesia and the Philippines.

In reaction to Hang Seng's plunge, key European markets opened sharply
lower. By midday in Europe, London's Financial Times-Stock Exchange
100-Share Index was down nearly 3%, while Frankfurt's key DAX shed
more than 4%.

Analysts said the Hang Seng's plunge raised
the question of whether Hong Kong can
continue to insulate itself from turmoil seen in
the rest of Asia.

Hong Kong investors recently have been
rattled by fresh worries about the stability of
the country's currency. The Hong Kong
market's drop Wednesday was blamed chiefly
on worries about the strength of the Hong
Kong dollar's peg to the U.S. dollar, following
comments by local business leaders about the
viability of the peg.

Market participants are considering whether
or not Hong Kong -- long thought to be a market relatively independent of
Southeast Asian woes -- should now to be lumped together with its
neighbors. Asian-Pacific currencies have suffered from selling speculation
after Thailand decided to float the baht.

Hong Kong cannot be disintegrated from Asia and should not be
considered as a safe haven in these circumstances, said Stephen Leung,
chief investment officer at Barclays Global Investors Ltd.

Hong Kong's chief executive, Tung Chee Hwa, ruled out any devaluation
of the Hong Kong dollar and said he is prepared to see interest rates rise
to defend the currency.

He reiterated that his government ''has absolutely no intention of any kind''
to change the Hong Kong dollar's link to its U.S. counterpart. Mr. Tung,
calling the currency turmoil a tremendous challenge, said Hong Kong
wouldn't try to ''become competitive through devaluation.''

In an effort to rein in soaring local interest rates, Hong Kong's three
currency-issuing banks announced identical 0.75% rises in their key
lending rates Thursday.

Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corp., Standard Chartered Bank, and
Bank of China each said they will raise their prime rates to 9.50% from
8.75%, effective Friday. Hang Seng Bank Ltd., which, like Hongkong
Bank, is part of the HSBC Holdings PLC banking group, also said it
would raise its prime lending rate.

Thursday's announcement was unusual, since it came before the banks
meet with other members of the Hong Kong Association of Banks, the
local rate-setting body. The Association also generally doesn't move to
change rates until after the U.S. Federal Reserve Board and the Hong
Kong Monetary Authority adjust their rates.

Banks' prime rates last moved on March 26, when they rose by 0.25
percentage point.

Meanwhile, the overnight Hong Kong Interbank Offered Rates rose to
270% from 5% Wednesday, the one-week HIBOR rose to 90% from
8.5%, and the three-month HIBOR rose to 35% from 10.5%.

Traders attributed the Hong Kong dollar's strength Thursday to sharply
higher interbank interest rates. In late trading in the currency markets, the
U.S. dollar was quoted at HK$7.6965, down sharply from late
Wednesday's level of HK$7.7499.

Return to top of page
Copyright � 1997 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:08
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: A.Goose--if you bought Woodside, you'd have to be smilin'. One of the best performing stocks in OZ this year!! They've got more hot gas off the NW shelf than Ted and �B put together!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:07
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:

JTF: I agree with your thoughts in this regard. There are a host of reasons, Americans by and large think the market here will continue to go up. Money will seek refuge from the east in the dollar, plenty of it will find it's way to the metals.

Large positions will be taken by certain individuals and funds in the metals who now plainly see the writing on the walls.

Many think there will be bank runs, maybe, I think the runs will be on Mutual Funds, not too many people have money in the bank, zillions are in the mutuals and stockmarket. Then we will see the bank runs.

I for one like stocks like Avino, First Silver, Silver Standard, Tan Range, Oroperu. Coins and bullion are a given. A stock not in the metals I like alot Cash America - PWN - found it in The Great Reckoning - Davidson and Lord Rees-Mogg - PWN has over 300 pawn shops in the US alone. Take a peek at their stock. It is strong as a rock and will make a killing as people sell things to make ends meet.

And last but not least - Gold and Silver Reserve http://www.e-gold.com --I have read a great deal on the subject of digital metal. Jim Blanchard, Lord Rees-Mogg, James Davison, Alan Greenspan and others have written and talked about it. Good enough company for me.

I put these here for your perusal. YOU DO WHAT EVER YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH.........BUT DON'T WAIT.....DO SOMETHING.

Good luck to you all with your choices...things are going to get worse financially before they get better.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:04
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Thanks all, but I am looking for a link that will allow me to view individual stocks. Like I said, I use to have links for London, Swiss ... and some other markets where I could key in the individual stocks and view the trading for that day. But I am unable to find them at the moment.

Thanks for the help.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:03
Ted @ Hepcat the great market predictor(?)>(@ Hepcat the great market predictor(?)) ID#364147:: Let's see....10/23= GOLD 3-1-0 and DOW 8300...Today is the 23rd BOY ( who writes so pretty but can't do anything else but be an ass-wipe ) Hey BOY,I still need a servant....you interested yetHAHAHAHA....P.S.-yer such a card ( HAHAHA )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:58
BillD Int'l markets>(Int'l markets) ID#258427:: AGoose ... try:
http://quote.yahoo.com/intlmarkets

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:58
Ted @ Dec. gold>(@ Dec. gold) ID#364147:: UP 1.70

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:58
George Cole Hepcreep>(Hepcreep) ID#42953:: Looks like Hepcreep made one of the worst forecasts ever. Dow 8300 and Gold $310 by Oct 23. Don't make me laugh.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:57
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Thanks Nick - was afraid of that. Love Australia, spent 5-6 months there 4 years ago. Road buses and walked all over the place. If things work out, I come and see your country again -- soon.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:57
News y2k and stocks>(y2k and stocks) ID#390100:: y2k already biting. http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/II/TK/tk9742.htm

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:57
Speed @waking up>(@waking up) ID#286199:: A. Goose: Try this link http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/

Crystal Ball: I am poised under the knife, ready to pick up more energy and energy services stocks! Only time will judge me as deft or daft!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:56
Ted @ LIMIT DOWN!!>(@ LIMIT DOWN!!) ID#364147:: S+P futures are LIMIT DOWN!! Nick ( C ) GO TRIBE! Was goin ta head out in the kayak but might have ta watch this equity INSANITY fer a bit...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:54
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: I use to have a link for the london marktet, no longer. Does anyone have liinks for European markets, and Asian for that matter. I check Australia market and my stocks didn't move much. Woodside held fine - if the data is really current.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:52
Ted @capebreton + flight to Quality>(@capebreton + flight to Quality) ID#364147:: G'Day Nick ( C ) and Aurator.....Yes, as you can see I am UP but what the hell else is UP Well the U.S. Long Bond is ( up 1 7/32 ) =flight to quality ( ? ) so far this morn....Aurator- how the fuk are ya me elder ( 48 beats 43++++32 beats 26!!! ) I'm lost mate....and yes,I am an AGENT....CherOkee: Yer call is lookin great and Vegas bekons...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:52
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: A.Goose--OZ dollar is already down 3% this week. May go a bit lower but will then be good buying. Your OZ shares are worth 3% less if they stayed even ( in your $, of course ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:50
Crystal Ball ()>(()) ID#287367:: I want to see the stock market dippies catch this falling knife! $360 gold and $6 + silver here we come! GO STUFF ! !

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:45
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: As has been noted on this bb, for several weeks gold and gold stocks have seemed to have a mirror image to the DOW. Well today we should get to benefit from this relationship.

I have stocks in Australia, mainly resource based. Is their any chance your currency is going to be hit?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:38
JTF @Home>(@Home) ID#57232:: Mike Sheller: Interesting convergence of cycles with inverted H&S in gold, and now crisis in China and HK. Almost as if the gold market anticipated what is happening now. One could argue that somebody knew earlier, or . I need to find a neurophysiology referece to electroencephalographic signals in the brain preceeding stimuli by a significant fraction of a second. Never figured out what the experimenter was measuring ----.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:38
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Any recommendations for puts on the s7p 500 or oex? cheap out of the money puts. I have no equities in U.S. except for pm based.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:37
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: G'day Mike Sheller. What's happened to that copper rhino, mate Tripped on a wok?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:35
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: I guessing that U.S. brokers and companies have moved their monies from equities to bonds and treasuries. They are probably looking at it as a short term trade. It is hard for me to believe that asians would buy them. Especially since they need currency to defend their markets. IMHO.

30 yr bond up in london 1 7/32.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:30
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: 'bout bloody time, Ted!! Watched the game today. On the warpath!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:30
JTF @Home>(@Home) ID#57232:: Nick ( @Aussie ) : Do you have anything special in your Dad's poetic works for Jin? He would appreciate it, I'm sure, given what is happening in that part of the world. There but for the grace of God go I Can't remember who said that - too sleepy to pull out Bartlett's -- Aurator - any words of support for Jin?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:27
Mike Sheller Ask...>(Ask...) ID#347447:: NICK ( @Aussie ) : Just read Dear God. Am touched. The fundamental things apply, as time goes by.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:25
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:: S+P futures DOWN 14.75 ( hi CherOkee )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:23
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: JTF--cancel your subscription!! American newspapers rival China's for ethnocentrism. You'll get the REAL news here on the net, mate. Ain't nobody payin' us to shut up!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:22
Mike Sheller at the charts>(at the charts) ID#347447:: The return move test of the inverse H&S bottom breakout in the XAU, and, notably our pedigreed gold stocks HM and PDG, appears to have been accomplished. Now it remains to be seen if the XAU and these stocks must make b and c wave moves before making new highs. If the previous highs on this unfolding rally are exceeded in the next few days, then the swing is underway and we go forward. The stocks appear to be leading bullion as far as gold is concerned, while silver is with the program and has just tested its breakout of 17 years of downtrend captivity. We would have preferred a larger price pattern for that test, and it may yet come in winter, but this return move to breakout will do just fine, so long as it holds.. With all these technicals in place, and the Uranus square to NYSE Venus ( gold ) in its last throes, the news is now emerging along the path of least resistance. There is panic in the air in Asia, and this bodes potentially well for gold and silver, along with dwindling silver stocks ( the bullion, that is ...the Stocks have dwindled quite enuf, thank you ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:22
JTF @Home >(@Home ) ID#57232:: Nick ( @Canberra ) : Dollar and gold up! Whenever there is a major crisis outside the US -- the US$ and gold both go up. There was a period of time in 1993 when this happened - around July I think. What disturbed the experts more at that time was how fast the dollar dropped back down when the crisis was over!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:21
Argent� G'day>(G'day) ID#255283:: Nick@Canberra--The Goldbug's Weekly Commentary at
the Gold-Eagle ( Vronsky's Website ) has info and recommendations on North American silver stocks. http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/goldbug613.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:20 WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:: JTF The reason the problems in Asia are not reported as it would not be consistent with the current economic spin and might puncture our bubble .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:20
Reify @where art thow>(@where art thow) ID#396137:: Hi Kaas -Kop, guter Freund Kaese Kopf- where are you located?
Have you ever thought of mincing words? Just kidding- All here
seem to feel strongly to various degrees about this paper gold markets
subject. Have a nice day and keep your eyes open.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:17 WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:: If there is a plan to keep gold from becoming a safe haven, today is exactly the type of day where THEY would try to suppress the PMs.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:17
JTF @Home -- flight to the Dollar?>(@Home -- flight to the Dollar?) ID#57232:: All: I think Lurker said it first -- we may have a gold rally and a flight to the dollar -- at least for the short term. Just as I suspected, my local paper does not even have one sentence about what just happened in Hong Kong and China last night! Spent over 20 minutes looking!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:14 WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:: Gold up 1.4 and silver up 3.7 per dbc. They also have the dollar down versus the mark and franc and up against the Yen. Some guy named Stenger was interviewed on CNN and he was sanguine about the situation.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:14
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Dear God

A man of integrity would I be --
And wise in Judgment
So dear God, teach me

And brave enough,
Compassionate and good
Resourceful and intuitive
And I would
A touch of humour lest I be severe.
And sound good health.
And please, a modicum of wealth.
For you have given us keen eyes
For beauty and the things we prize

The gift of loving too I need.
For you dear God made Eve a maid
And me dear God a man indeed.
And both with thoughtful care

A moderate man you see
And peaceful -- not a prude
For these few simple things I plea.
Dear God -- remember me --

Dear God

That earlier list
Dear God.
Me surely dreaming!
A moralistic theme
Composed no doubt
In a grey moment

What I'd really like
Dear God
Even now, grown old,
Is a garden
And a woman at my side
To help me tend it
Woman are wonderful friends
And often wonderful gardeners.
Such a loving empathy with life

And this life's a garden
Needing care.
So forget that list
Dear God.
Just take me as I am
And, if there's the chance
Of such a garden
And such a friend
Dear God -- Remember me

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:12
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: G'day Nick@Aussie--thought you had gone prawn fishin'. Not just NAB puts, ANZ puts saved my bacon big-time today mate!!! Up 39% in two days--makes up fer them danged MIMs. I'm very hesitant to sell my puts as they are a bloody good insurance policy if the precious doesn't take off!!! Best case, mate--Paper bonfire and stampede into precious. If only pigs could fly!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:11
A.Goose pondCentral>(pondCentral) ID#20135:: The report on CNBC from London, just noted that the U.S. dollar and U.S. treasuries are being seen as safe havens.

Maybe they are lieing about gold but that is how I saw it on Bloomnberg, I will check it again. Bloomberg shows gold at +1.00. CNBC is showing the new York price at -.20. Guess it is yesterdays close or something.

As for bonds and gold goingup at the same time, if both are seen as safe havens, they both will go up.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:05
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: A.Goose--G'day, mate. Why are the US$ and gold goin' UP at the same time?

Turkey +2.63% -- hope you've got yours in the freezer!!!
J'burg gold + 1.13%

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:03
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: CNBC shows Dec gold down 20 cents. ? They showed silver up though. Do you get U.S. news.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:03
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Nick@Canberra Don't you love those NAB put warrants, Go for it.
Watch those shorts, hold those longs.

Stolen from the web:

GOLDS GONE EAST - FOR GOOD?
Since the dawn of history, the barbarous metal has caused passion and irrationality amongst those who have been exposed to it. It is only recently, since the development of electronic world-wide markets, that some have reduced gold to the lesser status of just another commodity.
This is to ignore thousands of years of history and the powerful desire to hold gold as a tangible sign of wealth.
Gold's scarcity and universal negotiability used to more than compensate for its lack of yield. Today, with inflation back in its box, gold has reduced appeal to hard-nosed investors,
Other than lending, for a small margin, to producers selling forward to protect future earnings, there is not much the central bands could do to increase returns on their holdings. So some central banks did what any rational investor might do: they decided to divest themselves of an underperforming asset. Why not? The future seems to be all sweetness and light, and nowhere can be seen a Factor X ( the unknown trigger for some sort of financial disaster ) lurking in the shadows.
However, for much of the world, from the east of Suez to the east coast of China, and all those other areas running north-south in between, there is a distrust of governments, government paper, and governments' functionaries. Nor do those governments give much. More than two billion people in these areas want some form of negotiable insurance.
The emerging middle classes of India and China have no wish to be uninsured against a physical or financial calamity. Neither do the poor. The collapses of the Tiger currencies illustrates this well. The governments attempted to maintain their currencies within a band. It never did work and still doesn't. Gold holders in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Phillipines would be happy they still hold something very negotiable in a period of considerable panic.
What is going to happen if the EMU doesn't work? What is going to happen if a committee of Eurocrats decides that they may possibly have made a teensy mistake and the basis for their divestment of the ultimate commodity could be a bit wrong, and they might just stop selling their central banks' remaining holdings and, even worse, buy a bit back?
Consider this equation:
a ( fabrication demand ) + b ( investment demand ) + c ( hoarding demand ) + d ( Factor X )
= w ( mining supply ) + x ( forward selling ) + y ( central bank selling ) + z ( traders shorting )
ie. a + b + c + d = w + x + y + z
The equation is somewhat weighted towards the selling side at the moment.
Factor w is becoming very important. The South African mines are hurting badly, Australian mines are in trouble and , in the last few days, various Canadian and US miners have signalled closures. Confidence is the most fragile of flowers and if there is the slightest sign of any weakening in any factor on the right hand side of the equation, i.e. should factors x, y, and z, be only marginally affected, the markets will do their normal thing and overdo everything on the upside, and God help you if you're too short. Steve Eakin
THAT'S ALL RIGHT BUT�
The Chinese who escaped to Hong Kong in 1949 with gold taels sewn into their clothes had a handy start to a new life. But many who have since become hugely wealthy carried with them a far less tangible but more profitable commodity; acumen. Gold is good but brains are better.
Or ask the European Nazi victims who converted their wealth into gold in Swiss banks before 1939 how good their insurance was. You can't. Many were dead before they could make their claim. In times of turmoil, a safe hide-out is better than a hidden safe. But what is reason and history to the eastern mind? Or the frightened mind? Markets are rational - except when they're not.
The long-term trend in gold since 1980 has been steady on the downside. That is not a friendly trend except for sellers. Investing with the aim of profiting from and international banking crisis is like taking the other side to Lloyds and betting that the ship will sink. Good money if it does and nothing if it reaches port safely, as thousands do every day.
Still, there's not much wrong in investing in a company that finds a lot of gold it can dig, treat and pour for less than $US250 an ounce. Or which has sold forward three or four years' production at over $A650 an ounce - as NBH has. In the meantime, I'll leave the philosophy - and the physical - to the mystics. PDJ

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:01
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Nick:
news says money moving to the U.S. dollar and U.S. Treasuries. 30 uear long bond up over 1 point.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:59
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: G'day Argent. I would like to get into some silver ( as long as she's warm and cuddly ) . Got any recommendations?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:53
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Kitco gold 324.20 +1.90 yeeeeeeehaaaaaaa!!!
silver 5.09 +4
plat 422
Pall 203

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:51
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Just got up to look to see.

US news acting nervous about Hong Kong melt down ( bloomberg news and cnbc ) . They are saying that looks like U.S. open looks like at 100 points down. Of course they are saying it could be better by opening time. S&P futures are recovering to -12 up from -15. I am going to read what you guys have posted while I was sleeping.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:49
aurator� �assandra's Ears>(�assandra's Ears) ID#257148:: Nick, and 00:42 by ( ahhemmm,. moi? )

armagedinoutofhere

oh, silly me, i am already

take care my friends

but if you're skating on thin ice,

you might as well dance

Jesse Winchester

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:49
Auric @ Kitco>(@ Kitco) ID#255151:: I'll bet this little item has the White House
scrambling. Required reading!
http://www.drudgereport.com/1.htm

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:47
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Sauerkraut -3.84
Bangers and mash -3.39

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:42
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Can't find ANY up arrows!!!

http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/Stocks/

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:33
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Wake up TED!!! Sleepin' yer life away as the world melts around you. Good thing you sold that paper, mate. I've got a feelin' we're gonna hear from Puetz soon!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:30
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: DAX now down 3.64%
J'burg gold up .62%

Anyone seen Donald lately Send out a search Party!!

Aurator-- a poet I ain't!! You and the other Nick's father will have to carry on!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:22
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: Hong Kong Dollar Hits Record Low Against US Unit--Nikkei News.

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/TNKS/page/asiaset.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:19
aurator� I'm not the pheasant plucker, I'm the pheasant plucker's son. If you want to pluck a pheasant, wait till the pheasant plucker comes.>(I'm not the pheasant plucker, I'm the pheasant plucker's son. If you want to pluck a pheasant, wait till the pheasant plucker comes.) ID#257148:: Nick, aye... cold and hard and warm and soft, you have the heart of a poet. i look forward to hearing more of it.

I am amazed at our Westies always talking about how much plastic credit comes in the mail.. i mean , once, ten years ago,, my handle got on lists.... easy money if you thought so ... it is like the North West heavy-human-biomass has gone looney, Nick , these boys and girls have goofed out.. Yes I remember On The Beach.

remember the aurator�, as i will remember you

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:19
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE QUICKENING >(@THE QUICKENING ) ID#431263:: GOLD UP $1.50!! SILVER UP 3! ONLY THE BEGINNING MEINE FREUNDE!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:19
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE QUICKENING >(@THE QUICKENING ) ID#431263:: GOLD UP $1.50!! SILVER UP 3! ONLY THE BEGINNING MEINE FREUNDE!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:15
Reify @Complainin>(@Complainin) ID#396137:: Hey how come LGB has 3 IDs and I only have one
LGB #'s 310407,315256,316409. Could there be three of you
out there?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:13
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: DAX -3.17%
FT-SE -3.01

What's 3% of 8000?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:56
Nick @five fig plucking fiends plucked figs>(@five fig plucking fiends plucked figs) ID#386245:: Auracious--hold on to yer precious, mate--both the cold and hard and the warm and soft. They can't be replaced!! I'm waitin for the Yanks/Rebs/Canuks to figure out what's gonna happen when the Asians sell all their bonds/bills etc. Asia has been slowly melting down for weeks, now the pace has increased and the Northerners have still been out on their giant picnic stuffing themselves and getting thoroughly soused!! They're gonna hava one helluva hangover when they wake up. Not only that, but someone has stolen the picnic basket!! Asians are feeling 25-40% poorer tonight. How are our friends up North gonna feel when the mastercard bill is due and there ain't no cash in the kitty

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:56
aurator golden trumpet, or Jimson weed or cherokee ;-))>(golden trumpet, or Jimson weed or cherokee ;-))) ID#255285:: Golden &&&&head ehhh?

speak up young man

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:52
aurator� it will all make sense, if we read it in the present tense...>(it will all make sense, if we read it in the present tense...) ID#255285:: JTF. Donald, Zardoz, All thank you for your exegesis of Another's posting. Oil, LBMA, Gold, Billary, silk shorts, stars, charts, candlesticks and poetry. where else

pages@sagesdotkitco�

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:52
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE BIG ONE!>(@THE BIG ONE!) ID#431263:: LET ME GET RIGHT TO THE POINT! DEFLATION IS HERE!! NOW!! SELL ALL STOCKS!! NOW!! BUY ONLY PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER !!! NOW!! THIS IS THE BIG ONE!! ASIA IS IMPLODING AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL IMPLODE WITH HER!!
I'VE BEEN WARNING YOU FOR WEEKS NOW TO GET OUT WHILE THERE STILL IS TIME!! NOW TIME IS UP!! AG WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUT ASIA BACK TOGETHER AGAIN! NOR WILL JAPAN! THE ASIAN PLAY IS NOW OVER FOR AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS! BONDS WILL SOAR IN THE SHORT TERM! WARREN BUFFET KNEW THIS!! HE WILL MAKE A KILLING IN ZEROS! UNTIL IT BECOMES CLEAR THAT THE US DOLLAR IS GOING DOWN TOO! THEN INTEREST RATES WILL SOAR. BONDS WILL PLUMMET WITH STOCKS! AND GOLD WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES TO ALL TIME NEW HIGHS!! THIS WILL BE THE NEW PARADIGM INTO THE NEW MILLENNIUM! THERE'S NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO! THE PAPER PARTY IS COMING TO AN END! AND METALS ALONE WILL SHINE!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:51
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE BIG ONE!>(@THE BIG ONE!) ID#431263:: LET ME GET RIGHT TO THE POINT! DEFLATION IS HERE!! NOW!! SELL ALL STOCKS!! NOW!! BUY ONLY PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER !!! NOW!! THIS IS THE BIG ONE!! ASIA IS IMPLODING AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL IMPLODE WITH HER!!
I'VE BEEN WARNING YOU FOR WEEKS NOW TO GET OUT WHILE THERE STILL IS TIME!! NOW TIME IS UP!! AG WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUT ASIA BACK TOGETHER AGAIN! NOR WILL JAPAN! THE ASIAN PLAY IS NOW OVER FOR AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS! BONDS WILL SOAR IN THE SHORT TERM! WARREN BUFFET KNEW THIS!! HE WILL MAKE A KILLING IN ZEROS! UNTIL IT BECOMES CLEAR THAT THE US DOLLAR IS GOING DOWN TOO! THEN INTEREST RATES WILL SOAR. BONDS WILL PLUMMET WITH STOCKS! AND GOLD WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES TO ALL TIME NEW HIGHS!! THIS WILL BE THE NEW PARADIGM INTO THE NEW MILLENNIUM! THERE'S NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO! THE PAPER PARTY IS COMING TO AN END! AND METALS ALONE WILL SHINE!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:34
aurator the sixth sick sheikh's, sixth sheep's sick..>(the sixth sick sheikh's, sixth sheep's sick..) ID#255285:: Nick@Canberra my pleasure, are you waxing your surfboard, sun-kissed buddy? Cos, to listen to the talk here, we got tsunamis on the horizon, course that makes it safer at least as far as sharks are concerned?

BTW got concrete proof ( skientifik ) on your claim re J�s if ever ye need ammo. ( am embarassed - looking back - have called beautiful precious by mistake, but then, if you could see her...

Gold is dlog backwards.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:29
John jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#252110:: The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

I thought it appropriate to post these verses from Ecclesiates considering all the mayhem taking place in the Far East. Looks like many investors and non-investors alike have forgotten about 1929 and the resulting Great Depression. I hope we don't get to remember it all over again.

Goodnight everyone.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:21
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:: G'day Aurator. I want to thank you very much for looking up the info on those Kiwi gold shares for me. Very much appreciated. I was thinking of diversifying into our antipodean brothers. As it turns out Normandy has already done it for me with their big holding in the Martha Hill Mine ( Waihi Gold ) . I was very happy with Normandy today. In the midst of an Aussie paper bonfire the good goldies held up extremely well.

What a day eh, folks. A traders prayer answered if yer quick enough. Some of our big companies were down 5%, up 2%, down 2% etc. Dang I'm tired!!. Good thing for them put warrants and SPI puts. I broke even today!! Believe me , that is a major achievement. Our bank meltdown is makin' up for the death of a thousand cuts our goldies are undergoing. As the Chinese say, May you live in interesting times. Sure as hell was interesting out there today. How about you Northerners Are you in for an interesting day?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:18
Argent� Hi-Yo Silver--AWAY!!>(Hi-Yo Silver--AWAY!!) ID#255283:: For anyone following stocks that are silver plays, here is a near real time summary and data on asgmf, asm.v ssrif, paasf, fsr.v-- http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=asgmf+asm.v+fsr.v+paasf+ssrif&d=t ( Thanks Claude Cournier )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:09
aurator pass me the smelling salts please...>(pass me the smelling salts please...) ID#255285:: They who control the credit of a nation direct the policy of the governments and hold in the hollow of their hand the destiny of the people

Reginald Mckellor

Money plays the largest part in determining the course of history

Karl Marx ( that's for you WW, cos we all love each other on armageddon day ;- ) ) ) ) )

and

Sell T-bonds buy Gold

Hashimoto

and

dem J%ws did it

Dikter Mahitzir

we agree

the rest of asia

donald duck

nick duck

all: duck

( especially TED cos you think i got problems, look in your woodbox. )

That is All except for Gartman BUY MICROSOFT and read the complaints of your clients.

aurator

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:55
aurator cold shower...>(cold shower...) ID#255285:: aurator i shall slap myself around the face to stay awake today.. ah the tyranny of distance ( oh yes, and ahhhh,, the LIBERTY of distance )

input, please input

JIN, thank you for your courage.

go team kitco.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:41
Strad Master� Night Owl>(Night Owl) ID#250297:: ARGENT�: Yep! I'm always up late but I don't always post unless I have something to say - however unimportant it may be. It's 1:40 here in LA but this Hong Kong stuff is too intertesting to miss. ( BTW, did anyone expect the Hang Seng to keep going up once the Red Chineese took over? I'm surprised this didn't happen the week BEFORE the takeover. ) I think I'll hit the sack pretty soon.
Wonder if I'll get a new ID # for the addition of the � after my handle?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:39
Professor H/C The Pound>(The Pound) ID#221228:: 3-4-0-3-4-0-3-4-0-3-4-0-3-4-0

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:32
Argent� The Poster Formerly Known As Auric�>(The Poster Formerly Known As Auric�) ID#255283:: aurator, Nick, Strad--ssrif and paasf are actualy UP! Got ssrif at just under 5 and paasf at just under 8. Nick--The Tsunami metaphor is spot on!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:19 WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:: Gold up 1.1 and silver up 2.7.
Chinese Govt is telling landowners in HK what they can charge poorer people in rent and telling the owners they must lower rent on poorer types ( per the Van Eck newsletter ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:16
Nick @AUssie>(@AUssie) ID#386276:: Footsie down 199pt in first 16mins. Every share on the FT100 in the red. Every single one. Now bouncing on first wave -189.4 @ 8:51am

Globex -930

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:10
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Footsie down 45pts in first 3 mins
-88 points in 9 mins
-177 pts in 12 mins
183 in 15 mins.
Look out below.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:05
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Globex down 1050
Bought puts in LLC on first rally after morning fall was down 40c closed down $2.13

AVID Chatter
Hong Kong down an amazing 15% now - below 10,000 - Hong Kong Dollar Deposit opens at 50%, HK Banks limit HKD Deposit withdrawls... FTSE opens down 100, DAX down 175, SPZ7 -8.80 ( Prem -3 ) - USZ7 +20/32 on flight to quality...

lets see, 16% of dow 8000 = 1280

HBSC Hldings Ltd said it has halted ahead of their maturity, the transfer of funds out of the bank's time deposits as of 11:30 am due to market conditions

China Telecom ( recent hot IPO ) falls as much as 19% on first HK Trade... 300% oversubscibed

Strong buy recommendation on HangSeng Index at 2000 ( after a fall of 89% in a few years time ) !

Well, here is some bear critter chatter to liven things up. It has been my belief for a long time ( I had almsot forgotten this theory....I think someone wrote a book on this that I haven't read. The Great Reckoning? ) As the world's leading economy is replaced by another, the one that is about to take over as the leader goes into a stock market bear of huge proportions and a depression. Lesser bears and depressions affect the old leader and the rest of the world. This was certainly the case in 1929, as we took over world leadership from Britain. I believe that is what is happening today and Asia, of course, will emerge as the world leader while we fade as did England.

the HKMA ( Hong Kong Monetary Authority ) has informed the HK banks that the banks can no longer rely on the Liquidity Adjustment Facility for funds--sounds like every man for himself to me..

My theory this morning was that since we had a huge rush to sell T-bills this a.m., they were up 12-13 bps at 1 pm est., that some major players, banks and governments, were getting the cash ready to support the Hk market tonight. I think they will get their chance.

I don't know who but they were getting killed, the ted spread was off 13 at one time today. somebody needed cash and in a hurry.

Dow Jones says A Japanese account sold the active bond this morning

the HKMA ( Hong Kong Monetary Authority ) has informed the HK banks that the banks can no longer rely on the Liquidity Adjustment Facility for funds--sounds like every man for himself to me..

$517mil net outflow from US equity funds over friday/Monday

I would guess the HK-US$ peg would be broken after this, and I don't see any US$ selling. Just the opposite, so is no one defending the HK$?

hughes..HKMA told banks not to * depend* on HKMA facility for liquidity ( funds ) ..overnight now 120-150%..Singapore overnight rate up to 50% now..Hang is hanging everyone down 14% last i heard

lowery what choice do they have? was that the bottom just below 10,000, thats almost a 41% correction.

I kinda suspect that this latest run up was specifically crafted to get as many people as long as possible. Think about what has just occured. The most heavily publicized crash warning that I can think of was precipitated by a 2 day 356 point drop. Then, on the day of the 10th anniversary of the crash, the market rallies. Day later, it rallies bigger. The market is a screaming buy! The crash was just a scare, ibm and msft earnings were ok, why there is NO WAY the market can crash now because if it would, why it would have happened on monday!

BTW, the HK dollar is backed by US $ reserves. They will be selling US bonds by the truck load.

the HK-US$ peg. They're probably going to peg to the chinese currency very, very soon. It's more likely the chinese will bail them out than the US.

I don't know if they will sell US bonds, bills maybe but if they take away the US dollar llink why sell US bonds?

I am turning more bullish on the bonds, yesterday we were saying the spread between bills and fed funds is huge, how can the fed tighten? and now with HK, no way. if they do we are toast.

they puttin the squeeze on HK$ sellers..overnite rates up to 300%..short sellers dumping big time but high rates hurting Hang

HK to open in a few minutes. Lets rock and roll either hard up or down.
HK down 200pts in 6 min.
300pts. in 9 min.!!!!!!!!!
If this gets out of control here we are gonna pay big time!
I just think the liquidity drain will finally catch up.
HK down +1600. We need government intervention now!!!!!!!!
HK 30 from low. May God have mercy. Everyone is sleeping through a stock market crash

.this situation in those countries including japan...will HAVE TO affect U-S markets...WORLD WIDE DEPRESSION !

i can't believe all u guys are UP and ABOUT at this hour of the day...U'll be UP ALL NITE... when INDU starts a SIMILAR CRASH huh?

usz7 is up 20 ticks

FTSE 100 5100.50 -48.30 at 08:33 on 23 Oct 97 first 3 miutes of trading.

It's 8 am in the morning here in London UK... things seems to be holding steady now DAX -136, FTSE -120 - USZ7 continues to surge - now at 116-04 ( +28 )

Gold stead in Asia - around US$322 -- with the crash in HK ( supposed large buyers of gold ) one would have thought some uptick would be there - lack thereof very bearish for gold - could point to deflationary expectations

well, now it happened! USZ7 116.07 +.31. the NYSE crashes, 60% of american money will evaporate. the babyboomers are poor, have no pension fund, the govt have no revenues, the $ will crash, gold will surge. the next century belongs to asia..

you just know that clinton, rubin, and greenspan are awake right now.

I just got off the phone with fidelity and the guy said the phones are off the hook tonight busy. Everyone is asking for quotes on hong kong. He said he's taken about the same amount of sell orders for asia and hong kong funds as he did the night before. Looks like the late comers will be selling at the bottom once again.

HK 500 pts off lows in last 15 min

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:02
Amnesty @the puter>(@the puter) ID#251165:: Buying NAB puts and selling 3 hours later for 30% profit is my kinda
money. Come on gold calls its your turn next. They like it in London.
What to do tomorrow? Any suggestions Mike Sheller, moon man, space cadet,
dreamer of the future, zen monk, holder of the cards, friend of cherokee,
listener of the wind, predictor of the future, in tune with the waves,
mega pshychic?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:01
Strad Master Woooaaahhh!!>(Woooaaahhh!!) ID#250297:: AURIC�: Bloodbath is the word for it. Holy Moley!!! Hang Seng is down 13.26% and S&P is down 1180 on Globex. Wonder where all the money is going? Fascinating timing - It would seem to me that if stocks crash and much of what's salvaged goes to the metals, that silver should really take off since stockpiles for silver are gone. Am I wrong?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 03:44
aurator the poster formerly known as , but i speak to soon....>(the poster formerly known as , but i speak to soon....) ID#257148:: Argent� you got KRY chrystal balls buddy? how went Silver Standard today?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 03:25
Auric� BIG POSTER>(BIG POSTER) ID#255151:: Wow! Just got in and read about the bloodbath in Hong Kong. This is getting serious! I bet this gets some attention in Washington and Wall Street. cherokee--strapped firmly in the ssm. aurator, Nicks et al--this Silver thing is getting interesting, eh?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 03:18
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Gemany DAXI IBIS - futures down 1% soon after opening

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:53
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: A.Goose
This has the power to be so much bigger the the US. When it really starts to fall AG will be able to do little to stop it, merely provide support
and hand out the bandages. If you read his last few papers carefully, he alludes so clearly his fears. He has seen a vision of tommorow and that is why he has cautioned and cautioned.
But the mania did not listen.
The scenario unfolding so far, has been responding to perfect, almost seemless technical analysis, let alone the fundamentals coming in to play. I see a crash immenent.
This purge would of happened regardless of what or who we choose to blame.
Sort of like a massive boil that has been growing, untended and unnoticed. It must come to a head and then be purged till it is spent, then given time to heal. We have been seeing a bit of pus ozzing lately but thought nothing of it. But now the scab has popped off it, it is starting to express itself. First a gentle squeeze then a big push will expell it's poison.
AG can merely hold its hand and put on the bandages after it is done.
I sincerely hope he stands clear and lets it blow off, before he comes to help, because if he expends all his energy at the top, he will merely contain it temporarily and it will increase its pressure. Thus ensuring a worse position. AG needs to be getting the medics ready for the casualties at the bottom and supporting it in its hour of need.
For if this purge gets carried away with itself, I can see worse calamities than we can imagine in front of us.
AG must contain the excesses that could run away with itself but he must not contain the purging. IMHO.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:50
Jack Hang Seng hung low>(Hang Seng hung low) ID#252127:: Down 11.48% at 2:48am

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:30
aurator And promises of payment, are neither food nor raiment..>(And promises of payment, are neither food nor raiment..) ID#257148:: Nick, you are right bro'..there is a banging of drums and a clashing of cymbals tonight,, it may not be the end of the world, didja catch my earlier post? but there are the trailblazers... And when the birds are disturbed by the advance scout....

Gird yer loins, ( and loinettes )

Gartman.... time to buy stocks and to answer your critics.... ( I mean ex-clients )

Atonement

clink clink, i like the sound of kitco in the morning my precious...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:29
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: My thoughts:
Many of the big corporations who invest heavily in paper and its derivitives will not have progamed systemic risk into them to cover what is now unfolding. Most of us understand bollinger bands and their function. Well I believe that these big Co's use this style of thinking to work out risk/reward ratios. Being that what we are seeing and going to see, would probably be in the excess of 2 standard deviations, there will be massive losses and gains.

i.e. SPX puts : $15 contact at yesterdays price.
30% fall in SPX could lead to these being worth $2,000 to $10,000 each.
50% fall - work it out for youself - that is if they honour the paper that the trade was written on.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:21
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Nick: Do you think Big Al is asleep or sitting in his tub trying to think what to hell to do tomorrow morning. Rubin will know he hopes.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:14
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: Steve@Perth
Hope this works. Its the charts for Asia. If not go to the post section and look in the list of posted charts. The files to look for will be image30.gif through to image35.gif at the bottom of the page.

Certainly seems to be a bit of angst here at kitco today.
Lots of poeple globally, fear loosing their paper dreams - seems to be an extremely emotional experience ( :- ) ) ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:11
Jack Asia Bloody Nite>(Asia Bloody Nite) ID#252127:: http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:08
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Check this out:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/23/z0009_11.html

Hong Kong stocks crashed below the 10,000 point barrier, plummeting more than 1,600 points, which is over 14 percent, in the
biggest single intra-day collapse in the exchange's history, while the Tokyo market was closed for lunch.

Sounds like the Japanese market are out to lunch just like wall street.

This is also interesting.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/23/z0009_8.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:07
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: ASX ALL ORDINARIES INDX - 2617.60 -65.30 -2.43
HANG SENG STOCK INDEX - 10549.47 -1088.30 -9.35
HKSE ALL ORDINARIES INDX - 5270.18 -536.71 -9.24
NIKKEI 225 INDEX ----------17219.88 -467.73 -2.64
STRAITS TIMES INDU ------------ 1637.66 -94.02 -5.43
KUALA LUMPUR INDEX ---- 696.78 -34.39 -4.70
TAIWAN: WEIGHTED INDEX - 7825.01 +132.54 +1.72
PHILIPPINES COMPOSITE IX --- 1832.91 -96.06 -4.98
CHINA CLSA INDEX CHINA WRLD - 890.46 -90.32 -9.20
JAKARTA COMPOSITE INDEX -- 492.96 -12.27 -2.43

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:05
LGB @Final re Gold & Silver, wisdom>(@Final re Gold & Silver, wisdom) ID#316409:: Last proverb for tonight. Like Apples of Gold in Settings of Silver, is a word spoken in right circumstances

Has a beautiful flow to it as all the Proverbs do, yes? Hmmmm..look out Kitcoites, I may just start a renewal of spirit. Would you miss the old LGB? If the new one was a genuinely decent guy?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:02
LGB @Biblical teaching re debt>(@Biblical teaching re debt) ID#316409:: Do not be emong those who give pledges, among those who become sureities for debts ( Proverbs 22:26 )

yes I'm big on Proverbs tonight,a little more bible reading and I may turn into a nice guy....you all would miss the Old LGB if I did

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:57
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:: It has started in the west - already it is here and prevalent!!!
I've been offline out purchasing puts etc and silver calls.
My O/S futures broker's voice is turning to jelly. He can't fill my positions on Globex as the have stopped trading due to liquidity problems, I have to choose at opening if I want to place these orders.
Our market, if you read my previous call a few hours ago, was acting very strange. One hour latter it started, the shares that were racing up started to fall fast and big. Our All Industrials promptly fell 100pts - a big fear reaction thingy I guess.
Our SPI opened at 2677 rose to 2718 fell to 2615 and currently at 2661.
Massive moves showing massive fear.
I rang my wife in town to tell her the news, and she said that she could see Japanese people in the street below jabbering excitedly into their mobiles, worried expressions on their faces.
My local broker is in disbelief, hurredly looking up his clients who have excessive margin accounts. Shows you can't trust a broker's judgement. He showed disbelief when I put my put positions in. Dirt cheap way out of the money puts.
The fear now starting to enter the markets is naked, raw, unbelievable and those that stand in it's way will be blown to smithereens.
The Dow has made all the right technical failures and is now poised to go down. The failure to breach support of last week is a death knell. This happened last night ( see Panda's charts ) . With the amount of fear entering the markets today being so much more than at the end of last week, I see the dow hitting stops tonight. We will see.
This correction will take time to build up its momentum, but measured in hours not days weeks.
The big waves down followed buy up thrusts are merely the market expressing optimism/pessimism.
These short-term bases should not be bought. This beast has a lot of purging to do.
And if the concept of dow down and gold up is to come to play, watch your shorts and watch your longs cause this world will not be the same when we come out of this.

IMHO Loaded with puts and calls for this mometuos occassion.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:56
HighRise OIL UP>(OIL UP) ID#401460:: http://oilworld.com:80/1cashpet.htm
Another big day tomorrow maybe the DOW will notice that something has happened next door.
Good night all!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:55
LGB More Biblical>(More Biblical) ID#316409:: On the lips of the discrening wisdom is found, but a rod is for him who lacks understanding

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:54
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Jack: If you are worried, you should hold some of your bullion overseas. Canada Central fund of Canada ( CEF ) is basically a gold and silver play. You get the assets in ? 2002 or some such date until then you get dividends on the bullion. If you have bullion in Switzerland, well you know they don't give anything up - especially information.

Bernie:
This site gets real peculiar at midnight. I have to set the date to the 24th and set short text to obtain text for the 23rd. You might try setting the date back to 22 and then try the time. Otherwise try backing up to it. hope things work out.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:53
LGB @More Biblical Quotes, Gold & Silver bettered>(@More Biblical Quotes, Gold & Silver bettered) ID#316409:: Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding. For it's profit is better than the profit of silver, and it's gain better than fine Gold. ( Solomon, Proverbs 3:13-15 )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:53 PR !rate hike or what?>(!rate hike or what?) ID#225359:: The three-month Hong Kong interbank rate soared to 41.25 percent from 10.55 percent on Wednesday 10/22. Is that a rate hike or what? Imagine if our Fed did the same. Why didn't the HK market fall by 50%?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:50
Hem @Globex>(@Globex) ID#393102:: CME's Globex 5-minute updates are at:
http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:47
LGB @Biblical Quote>(@Biblical Quote) ID#316409:: The wise man see's the evil day coming and prepares himself, the fool goes on and is punished ( Proverbs )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:44
Bernie Site problems>(Site problems) ID#259160:: Is anyone else having trouble with this site? I can not select time.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:44
Jack Some thoughts>(Some thoughts) ID#252127:: I think that Goldfinger's concerns about confiscation leads many toward gold stocks and at the present time the stocks of irrational exuberance. Then we have the abundant paper interest created by the oversexed nypomaniac dollar its derivatives and currency moves.

Seriously, does anyone have a take on what effect the confiscation factor has on bullion sales.

Also many gold companies have difficulties, not only because it's a tough business, but many governments and their captive media are against mining, especially the gold miners.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:44
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Hem: How do you get golbex? Is there an url?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:42
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Hang Seng down nearly 25% this week along. With the rest of asia it is definitely looking ugly. Yes, it has looked bad in asia for awhile and it certainly hasn't had effect on the U.S. yet. But it did have its first mentioned impact in Europe this week. I suspect the U.S. market is going to have trouble also -- sooner than later.
The multinationals are certainly going to have a very tough time selling goods into the asian market -- thus their earnings are going to tank taking the market down ( starting next quater ) . While asian goods are going super swamp the U.S. and European markets.
Asian will have to bring money home to shore up these problems, thus they will sell treasurys and U.S. bonds - Ouch for U.S.
I think the cat is out of the bag and we either see it and prepare or sit and watch the show, or both.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:41
Hem ny@usa>(ny@usa) ID#393102:: Dec S&P now down 900 on Globex. Since Hong Kong doesn't have any
effect on US, this is obviously a reaction to LGB's sale of
yesterday.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:39
LGB @ALL just get along?, Bullion coins>(@ALL just get along?, Bullion coins) ID#316409:: Geez I just scrolled back aways ( went to a flick with my darling wife this evening ) and didn't realize so much fur had been flying. Bottom line is... personally, I think now is a GREAT time to have Silver coin, Platinum coin, and some Gold coins. I like the St. Gaudens for Gold ( as Allen mentioned ) for many reasons I've stated earlier here, and then for silver I go for small premium collector coins like Walking Liberty Halves, Mercury dimes, and Morgan silver dollars. In Platinum I have some of the new American PROOF Eagles. Sure they're all a bigger mark-up than the junk silver coins or straight bullion coins, BUT they historically provide some leverage in up markets ( they go up more proportionally than bullion ) AND a floor in falling markets ( due to Numismatic value. Just one perspective from a Numismatic type. I like the SSRIF and SSC purchasing startegies for leverage also in SIlver which I think has much more potential than Gold for big gains in near term.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:29
LGB @Asian Markets, Kuston>(@Asian Markets, Kuston) ID#316409:: Seems like every night here we see HangSung market crashing bigtime, etc. yet it never seems to have any influence on our markets following day. Are they coupled or would it take total collapse of the major Asians to pull ours down?

P.S. Psssst Kuston, yer just jerkin yer meat now boy...no one cares...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:28
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I am bullish on gold only in the forms I care to be invested in. If someone likes bullion I guess thats O.K. too, but I have a problem with it. My honest opinion is it is not a safe way to own gold. That's me and I can't change that unless old gold coins are prices out of sight. For now they are tremendous buys. In fact they are treasures soon to be cherished. See you tomarrow.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:28
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:: Holly smokes fellows it sure looks bab in asia.

Australia All Ordinaries ^AORD 1:09AM 2631.3 -51.6 -1.92%
China Shanghai Composite ^SSEC 1:10AM 1180.344 +2.824 +0.24%
Hong Kong Hang Seng ^HSI 12:30AM 10549.47 -1088.30 -9.35%
India BSE 30 ^BSESN 1:10AM 4075.95 -6.75 -0.17%
Indonesia Jakarta Composite ^JKSE 1:00AM 492.964 -12.269 -2.43%
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 1:10AM 17330.27 -357.34 -2.02%
Malaysia KLSE Composite ^KLSE 12:31AM 696.78 -34.39 -4.70%
New Zealand NZSE 40 ^NZ40C 11:02PM -26.12 -0.99%
Pakistan Karachi 100 ^KSE 1:10AM 2060.56 -7.42 -0.36%
Singapore Straits Times ^SS1 12:31AM 1637.66 -94.02 -5.43%
South Korea Seoul Composite ^KS11 1:10AM 595.25 -6.07 -1.01%
Sri Lanka All Share ^CSE 4:38AM 768.60 -1.10 -0.14%
Taiwan Taiwan Weighted ^TWII 12:03AM 7825.01 +132.54 +1.72%
Thailand SET ^SETI 6:01AM 511.56 +3.62 +0.71%

No not everything is down but by golly Hang Send is down -9.35% in one day - OUCH! Japan is down -2.43%. Oh well I am sure the Dow doesn't care much. All will be well just because. By the way, notice that China is NOT down but up slightly +0.24%, which I guess is doing really well comparitively.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:25
HIGHRISE WHAT NEXT?>(WHAT NEXT?) ID#401460:: Skeptic: Right now I have to tell you that I sure am glad I sold all of my non gold/natural resource equities monday.

What is the advice from all of you GoldBug Pros out there. What should the strategy be now. For it looks like tomorrow, unfortunately,is the day we have been expecting.

In 87 I think Gold stocks were much higher; this time Gold may react more like it did in 37. The Gold chart looks as stable as could be. It is almost scarry it is so flat and 323 day after day.
WHAT A BASE?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:20
Jack Forgot something>(Forgot something) ID#252127:: Don't forget to compact the earth backfill, place a plastic sheet between the earth and the new concrete and clean the jagged edges of the broken slab and wet them down to insure good bonding.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:19
GOLDFINGER JACK AND A GOOD NITE>(JACK AND A GOOD NITE) ID#433171:: Thanks, I am aware of digging holes and refuge in other countries, say swissie. But it's alot more confortable if you have nothing to hide. Still like old coins.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:13
Eldorado @the scene>(@the scene) ID#173274:: Goldfinger -- No problemo. Also please accept my deepest appologies! I really do hate offense, even in the name of defense. I will always 'offer' though when I deem it necessary. As it should be. In any case, perhaps you'll explain why you are so down on gold. I know of 'current' reasons, and maybe technical/chartist reasons, but.... I think you have seen at least some of the viewpoints on gold ownership. Please explain your rational. I really DO think through the viewpoints the best I can given the info. Thanks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:13
GOLDFINGER STARSHINE/ CHECKING OUT/LAST POST>(STARSHINE/ CHECKING OUT/LAST POST) ID#433171:: Thanks for your ideas. Keep it up. Always open but I like the old coins. I sleep better I guess. Just don't have to jump through any last minute hoops. The way life is things happen quick and I like preparation well in advance.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:06
Jack Bullion coins and bullion>(Bullion coins and bullion) ID#252127:: Goldfinger; any type of government action is possible. You might consider the shares of gold producers with minimal debt and a good profit track record.
Bullion can be returned from whence it came, a pick to crack a slab, a shovel to dig it deep and the simple knowledge of mixing concrete might help. Think of the pride you will have of a job well done. Storage in certain solid freedom loving countries can also also be a choice.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:04
lurker //////>(//////) ID#320102:: tommorow=tomorrow. Where are Who Cares and nomercy? Haven't seen them post lately. Hope they come back soon.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:01
HighRise Rates Up>(Rates Up) ID#401460:: JTF: The monetary authorities have raised
overnight rates sharply to defend the currency, and the Hong Kong dollar is down only a touch. All of the China markets are down, I think?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:57
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:57
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:57
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:56
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:56
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:55
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:: I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:50
Bobby @Peckter.com>(@Peckter.com) ID#223165:: Sell! Sell all your gold now! Buy stocks NOW!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:49
Schippi schippi@geocities.com>(schippi@geocities.com) ID#93199:: Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

UP, UP and Away!

) ID#401460:

This item was just on the Tube - If Jesus the Christ was born in 4BC, as some have calculated, than today is the MILLENNIUM. Now that would explain everything.

(The Millennium

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:47
HighRise The Millennium

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:42
aurator a chill wind before we laugh again....>(a chill wind before we laugh again....) ID#257148:
All G'day from the other side of the world. As you eat your cornflakes or Bagles for breakfast, think, it may just be your last.....

Nah, couldn't happen :

Here is a cheery thought.

Bishop Usher, in 1650 announced the fruit of his lifework, which was establishing the date of the creation of the world, using the Bible as history. He arrived at the date 23 October 4004 BC at 6 pm.

According to arcane readings of scriptures ( which many fundamental sects still adhere to ) the world will exist for one week. That is a *long* week, in which everyday day of the long week will last one thousand years. The last day of the week, that also lasts one thousand years will see the Kingdom of God established on the earth, that will appear after the sixth day.

Today, good kitco folk, is the last day of the world according to this reading. That is, today is the last day of the sixth millenium, ( There being no year *0* ) tomorrow........?

do enjoy yourselves.

We are going to see some really whacky things happen before the millennium, be on your guard. This is really tame compared to what we can expect.

Now what was that Jefferson Starship song again.....?

aurator

Do not panic...... women and children first....
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:41
HighRise No when to fold them>(No when to fold them) ID#401460:
Skeptical: I mentioned CQB, Chaquita Bananas, because I made a few bucks on it a while back and I noticed that the stock was up quite a bit since I last looked at it. I am just wondering if there is inflation appearing in food commodities.

Re: JTF's age, or investing for the long haul, I am totally infavor of holding stocks through the dips; EXCEPT, when the DOW is dangerously higher than it ever has been, and when half of the worlds markets are crashing - I don't care if you are 10 years old that is stupid. That is like standing in the path of a tornado knowing that the sky will be clear after it passes over you. Why take the hit?
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:39
Eldorado @the scene>(@the scene) ID#173274:
Goldfinger -- I was only trying to give good advice in my first posting to you. How did you find it particularly otherwise? I'm not here for food fights etc. I'm not here to defraud anybody. If I mock, it is only to drive a point. Nothing particularly personal. All of our postings are here for all to see, and perhaps, a few others might take heart. However, I will most certainly respond, in kind, accordingly, to BS, as it might be termed. Shall we start over on better terms? I would welcome it! Perhaps the past happened on a poor judgement of 'definition'. I'm sure you can tell us why you are so down on gold. Maybe it's a fine rational. Maybe we can poke holes in it. Maybe not. But let us discuss it regardless.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:32
$ilverbug WOW!!!!>(WOW!!!!) ID#151412:
Hong Kong went crazy this morning! It's drop would equal close to a 1000 point drop in the Dow from present levels. I've got to watch what the Chinese leadership ( read: Red Army ) does after their Red Chips lose that much in a single day.

COMEX Stocks down another 600,000 ozs today to a little under 134 million ounces left. Someone is buying up all that silver.

Anybody know about other large ( 25 Million + ) caches of silver around? I know the U.S. govt has about 45 million left that has been earmarked for coinage programs, but what other piles are there?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:30
PINNUSDICCUS @ home>(@ home) ID#227276:
TEST
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:27
Lynxpoint @ here kitty,kitty,kity>(@ here kitty,kitty,kity) ID#32090:
LGB,HEP: Why did the Chicken cross the road? To prove to the Armadillo
it could be done.The new paradigm is smoke and mirrors. Play devils
advocate,imagine the miscalculations of Greenspan,CBs,and the BOO
effect of the general international public.Why did Soros buy those
zeros.Be a contrarian with me for a while.Max@why.net.
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:27
StarShine Confiscation?>(Confiscation?) ID#285298:
Goldfinger, -- It appears that you believe that if the government passes legislation to outlaw the ownership of gold bullion then it will be so. First, a review of history will show that every time governments have recalled gold that the recall was unsuccessful and black market trading, barter, etc. flourished. If you or anyone knows of a situation where this was not the case, I ask you to share the facts. Second, and in the present, the great high tech innovations together with legislature has done nothing, and I mean NOTHING to impede drug trade, gun control, illegal gambling, tax free bartering and illegal immigration. All of which eclipse the business consequences represented by personally owner gold bullion. If the government is so ineffective in these areas, what makes you so sure they will be able be effective at recalling gold bullion?

In the worst case scenario, the owner of gold bullion only needs to melt the metal ( gold has a relatively low melting point ) into statuettes or other forms of artistic gold to circumvent the law. In fact this is exactly how many across the globe circumvented the recall attempts in the past. Jewelry and other forms of artistic gold has been and always will be in demand. What is the government going to do, outlaw the ownership of artwork and jewelry that contains gold?

IMO the overwhelming majority of personal assets are in the form of conventional investments, I would venture to say that personal gold ownership on a per capita basis is the lowest it has ever been. Confiscating gold would cost the government more in both real terms and public opinion then it is worth. Rather than confiscate gold, the investment community is discouraging the public from gold ownership and instead with tax advantages leading investors to slaughter into long term paper investments. While these investors believe they have their seat in the game of investment musical chairs, the market makers know when the music will start once more and they have their seats reserved. Once the music starts the market makers will have already taken their money out of paper and put it into hard assets. Leaving the flock dazed, confused and virtually penniless.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:26
JTF @the_turning_point - Ted, Jin>(@the_turning_point - Ted, Jin) ID#57232:
Ted: You may be right. Would you believe that only an hour ago I called my Dad and repeated my message now of nearly one month that he should get out of Guinness Flight Hong Kong and China? He is fairly well read - and his answer was that he bought more, because it was a good buy right now - that the Guinness people are pros.
Jin: So China did drop its rates -- by 1 1/2 percent today. I can't tell if that is long term or short term. That reference to massive debts in the state firms says loads. I do not know what the going interest rates in the China are -- but that looks to me to be a desperate move in the face of a possible collapse. I think you have done what Donald and the rest of Kitco failed to do -- get some hard facts. Looks like major deflation on the way in mainland China -- I'm more worried about that than even the $HK. Time for us all to hunker down, and hope most of the debris flies overhead.
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:22
lurker ////>(////) ID#320102:
There's a lot of money coming out of the Asian markets tonight. I wonder where it's going tommorow. US markets? Dow 8300? Hope not..
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:21
Ted @ back again>(@ back again) ID#364147:
S+P futures falling in a hurry ( down 7.30 ) ....nite!!
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:19
Ted @ the end>(@ the end) ID#364147:
Good night all......
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:17
Eldorado @the scene>(@the scene) ID#173274:
As I stated: 'IF' you have anything left after survival to buy up the stuff on pennies ( or less ) on the dollar! JIN, do what you must, but be sure that if you are STILL holding good physical when the time is ripe, that you MAY come into possession of 'nice fare', or in other words, great possessions, as others who were not as 'thoughtful' must sacrifice them for there own survival.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:13
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
If you could only know what you just did. I will tell you because from the sound of things you are too ignorant to know better. Anyone who has any dignity or class would just consider the source instead you stooped down and defended your sorry human being self because you are as worthless as you sound. Have you finished or do you require more embarrassment? What will it be ? If you go down any lower you know what you will be doing. I will save those two words for you.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:12
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
If you could only know what you just did. I will tell you because from the sound of things you are too ignorant to know better. Anyone who has any dignity or class would just consider the source instead you stooped down and defended your sorry human being self because you are as worthless as you sound. Have you finished or do you require more embarrassment? What will it be ? If you go down any lower you know what you will be doing. I will save those two words for you.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:10
HighRise 1937 and 1997>(1937 and 1997) ID#401460:
Does anyone remember all of the books that came out in the late 80's warning of the crash of 1990, especially Rabi Battra's book? Well many of those authors referred to the fact that the crash would occur in Japan, since Japan was the inflated economic engine this time compared to the US in 1929. If one looks at the charts, Japan did crash in 1990.

Now go back to the 1929-30's chart and you will see that an another major drop occurred 6-7 years later. I find it interesting that we are witnessing the same thing happening 7 years later after the 1990 Japanese crash. Unfortunately Hitler appeared last time and it took a war to get out of that mess.
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:08
Mephistopheles @ her kitty,kitty,kitty>(@ her kitty,kitty,kitty) ID#35081:
Hep,LGB,Boogymen et al : Please put aside all the personality conflicts
on this site,look at the posibilities of Asian errors,CB miscalculations,
AG ego. Imagine a defensive ( soon to be offensive} strategy eg metal,
industrial commodities,natural resources,etc. Come home to papa with some
ideas.You are contrarian at heart ( depending on the site ) .Boo Oct 31st-
Jan 1st. You guys can bring your alter egos to N.O.L.A. and we'll
get wasted to toast our money.I'll bring Louis Cypher and F.P. with me.
Your fiend, Meph.
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:05
Ted @ JTF + JIN>(@ JTF + JIN) ID#364147:
The average American might not be aware of the significance of the Asian equity CRASH but I think the DOW will certainly take a BIG hit tomorrow if the Hang Seng etc. etc doesn't rebound from these levels tonight...
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:04
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
Jin: If you are patient, you will be able to sell your gold again. You are very fortunate in that your trade may be just what you and your family need to survive. We are learning from you, because what is happening to you might well happen to us next. As I recall, that 1929 Kondratiev wave bit eventually enveloped the whole world, not just part of it. We are all in this together, and hopefullly with our collective knowledge there will be something left to start over -- that's what cycles are anyway. Things will get better again eventually.
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:01
JIN MORE NEWS!>(MORE NEWS!) ID#206358:
JTF,
MID DAY REPORT: http://www.abn.com.sg/headlines/index.cfm#568
TAKE CARE!

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