KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:46
Bingo (Auric, here are the highlights of CAFR exposure you requested...) ID#263254:
Copyright © 1998 Bingo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Federal, state, county and city governments have used a two tiered accounting structure for over 35 years. The public gets strapped for the total budget, however the profit center/revenue generation are not tied to the budget.

A nationwide media blackout is created by payoffs, the CEO's of the largest entities receive copies of the annual CAFRs.

Composite government owns approximately 65% of institutional funds with 32 Trillion dollars ownership in common stock.

Judges are receiving huge pensions after short term tenure, guaranteeing their cooperation:
NJ=$5 mil/12 mos.
AZ=$3 mil/18 mos.
Fed=$8 mil/24 mos.

Examples:
Total pre-tax dollars of every working person in U.S. = $6.5 trillion annual for 10 years would equal composite government holdings.

Walter Burien is not only coming forth with this information, he is spearheading a movement to transfer net holdings over to the public. Starting his venture with the state of Arkansas.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:46
Bingo (Auric, here are the highlights of CAFR exposure you requested...) ID#263254:
Copyright © 1998 Bingo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Federal, state, county and city governments have used a two tiered accounting structure for over 35 years. The public gets strapped for the total budget, however the profit center/revenue generation are not tied to the budget.

A nationwide media blackout is created by payoffs, the CEO's of the largest entities receive copies of the annual CAFRs.

Composite government owns approximately 65% of institutional funds with 32 Trillion dollars ownership in common stock.

Judges are receiving huge pensions after short term tenure, guaranteeing their cooperation:
NJ=$5 mil/12 mos.
AZ=$3 mil/18 mos.
Fed=$8 mil/24 mos.

Examples:
Total pre-tax dollars of every working person in U.S. = $6.5 trillion annual for 10 years would equal composite government holdings.

Walter Burien is not only coming forth with this information, he is spearheading a movement to transfer net holdings over to the public. Starting his venture with the state of Arkansas.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:45
Bingo (Auric, here are the highlights of CAFR exposure you requested...) ID#263254:
Copyright © 1998 Bingo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Federal, state, county and city governments have used a two tiered accounting structure for over 35 years. The public gets strapped for the total budget, however the profit center/revenue generation are not tied to the budget.

A nationwide media blackout is created by payoffs, the CEO's of the largest entities receive copies of the annual CAFRs.

Composite government owns approximately 65% of institutional funds with 32 Trillion dollars ownership in common stock.

Judges are receiving huge pensions after short term tenure, guaranteeing their cooperation:
NJ=$5 mil/12 mos.
AZ=$3 mil/18 mos.
Fed=$8 mil/24 mos.

Examples:
Total pre-tax dollars of every working person in U.S. = $6.5 trillion annual for 10 years would equal composite government holdings.

Walter Burien is not only coming forth with this information, he is spearheading a movement to transfer net holdings over to the public. Starting his venture with the state of Arkansas.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:31
24K (Try gold&maple&leaf in your search engine) ID#81124:
Copyright © 1998 24K/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A. This is 9-14 of '94. And this is 12:07:57.
MR. MEARNS: May I just have a moment, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.BY MR. MEARNS:
Q. And if we could just zoom in on the customer there.
These were all -- these were all photographs taken
during the same transaction with Mr. McVeigh?A. Yes.
Q. During this transaction, did you sell anything to
Mr. McVeigh or buy anything from him?A. I purchased coins from him.
Q. How many coins did you purchase from him?A. Six.
Q. And what kind of coins did you purchase?A. 1-ounce gold Maple Leafs.
Q. And how much did you pay for those coins?A. $2330.
Q. If you would look in your folder there, Mr. Dunlap, for
Government Exhibit 237 and Government Exhibit 1722.
Do you have those documents in front of you?
Robert Dunlap - DirectA. Yes, I do.
Q. Beginning first with 237, what is that?
A. This is a check drawn on my business for $2330 on September
the 14th, 1994, payable to Marife Nichols.
Q. Was that the check that you gave to Mr. McVeigh for the
coins you purchased that day?A. Yes, it was.
Q. And was that check created and maintained in the ordinary
course of your business?A. Yes, it was.
MR. MEARNS: We would offer Government Exhibit 237.
MR. WOODS: May I examine the back of it, your Honor?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. WOODS: Thank you. No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: 237 received.BY MR. MEARNS:
Q. Mr. Dunlap, is this your handwriting on the check?A. Yes, it is.
Q. And we see on the check that it's made out to the -- it's
paid to the order of Marife Nichols.A. Yes.
Q. Why did you make this check payable to Marife Nichols?
A. I was instructed to do so by Mr. McVeigh.Q. Turning to 1722. What is that?
A. This is a receipt from my business.
---end excerpt----

This is spooky. I guess I know why gold has a bad reputation.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:19
sharefin (State of Israel in near panic over computer date problems. ) ID#284255:
-
http://www.smu.edu/cgi-bin/Nova/get/gn/489.html

http://www.smu.edu/cgi-bin/Nova/get/gn/487/1.html

-----
Email whispers:
----
I have connections with people in the Intelligence Community that say we should expect to see a war break out as early as March, 1999 involving Russia and China. This comes from a very reliable source. This person I speak of has offices in over 55 countries around the world, and is one of the biggest private investigators in Canada. Yeah, the Ka Ka is beginning to hit the fan.

--------------------------
She told me about meetings that her dh has been having lately at work. He
works for the DOE. They are planning a huge test of the National Electrical
Grid on April 9th. There is supposed to be a warning given to the public
about 3 weeks prior to this date. MUCH less time than we thought we had to prepare.

Now here is what her husband told her we can expect from this ( BTW, he is a very
closed mouth person about his work, so to say anything at all is alarming to her and to me ) .

The DOE is planning for three possible scenarios.
1. little to no impact ( brownouts and blackouts for 1-4 hours, nationwide )
2. 3 days fluctuating power to no power
3. 3 weeks rolling brownouts and blackouts.

They will be testing switching capabilities if one grid were to go down and what
they will be able to do about it. She said that she certainly wasn't technical
enough to know all the information that he received, but she does know this;
he wasn't into the preps before the meeting and certainly is now. That is
all they have done this past week.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:09
ERLE (Envy,) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You are availed of far more choices than I. I am in mold manufacturing that is rather capital intensive. Our cap/employee is in excess of 300,000 , and that is a depreciated value. It's difficult to move a million pounds of iron and support to Belize.
Our professional association predicts a decine of 11.8% from last year, which was down 7% from the year previous. I am willing to compete against the other companies in our niche, provided that they are Japanese, European, or US. I don't see much good coming out of the state sponsored attack from the far east.
Clinton declared renewed warfare against the entrepreneur in the US.
I don't blame you all that much for considering offshore opportunities.
That's one of the superior features of gold, at least it's portable, and it's hard to figure how it can depreciate the way the Real did.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:08
Envy (@Earl) ID#219363:
I really appreciate the post. If you have any pointers to resources on the web for business people considering making a move, I'd love to read them, any books too. I have little doubt that it has it's own head-aches, for me one of them is simply communication, the language, not to mention cultural differences that I'm not at all familiar with. I'm still talking to people and checking it all out, I can see some real advantages, but you've definitely got a point, there are a lot of disadvantages too.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:04
MoReGoLd (@OF GOLD, Y2K, and BIASED Reporting..... (Let's all keep our money in paper and stocks)) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
 January 18, 1999

Mint cashes in on millennium

But gold coins may be bad investment

Paula Aven   Business Journal Staff Reporter

Investors scrambling to prepare for the Year 2000 are snapping up gold coins and gold bars as a hedge against the potential disaster they believe could occur on the first of the year.

That's good news for Colorado's coin dealers. But some financial planners believe that stocking up on gold and other precious metals such as silver and platinum is a bad idea.

People are buying coins because they believe the market is going to crash and they are hedging their positions in case of an emergency, said Michele Stell, executive director of the Denver Gold Group, a gold mining association.

A lot of people are preparing for the worst, she added. If the Y2K disaster occurs as some soothsayers believe it will, they want something they can spend. They don't have confidence in the dollar.

Computers across the globe are being checked to ensure they will keep working after Dec. 31, 1999. Some computers only read the last two digits of a date, so could become confused and think 2000 is actually 1900. That could cause computers to fail or spit out inaccurate information.

The Federal Reserve is increasing its printing of dollars in anticipation of people wanting cash in hand instead of in the bank where their account balances possibly could be lost.

And collectible coin brokers have noticed an increase in business during the past couple of months that they expect to continue at a more frenzied pace the closer it gets to the millennium.

People are buying a variety of gold, silver and platinum coins because of Y2K concerns, said Margaret Olsen, president of Westminster Coin & Jewelry Ltd. Because all metals prices have hit rock bottom, it's a good time to buy, she added. People want insurance, something available if banks have computer problems, Olsen said.

Also hot are silver dimes, quarters and 50-cent pieces that were minted prior to 1964.

People are buying old silver coins in quantity as a way of hedging against possible inflation down the road and hedging against a problem with paper items, Olsen said.

The Y2K phenomenon also has driven investors' interest in the U.S. Mint's American Eagle Bullion Coin programs.

These are what we call legal tender coins, meaning they have a dollar amount to them, Olsen said. That does not mean you find them in change. They are what I call noncirculating legal tender. In order to be classified as a coin, it needs to have a legal tender to it. If it didn't, it would just be metal, she said.

American Eagles are minted at West Point and are distributed to coin dealers around the country.

The millenium bug could cause a slowdown in economic growth or a recession, said Peter Tedstrom, a certified financial planner with Brown & Tedstrom, Inc. in Denver. But, he added, in that type of scenario I don't think gold is attractive to own because a recession is not an environment where gold performs. It typically loses money in a low interest rate environment.

That hasn't stopped consumer demand.

It's a frenzy, said Michael Kosares, owner of Centennial Precious Metals.

The Mint's American Eagle Gold Bullion program, which was founded in 1986, broke all-time sales records in 1998. For the first time ever, the Mint sold more than 1 million ounces of gold in less than 12 months.

According to the Mint, its gold American Eagle sales average between 300,000 to 350,000 ounces per year. But in 1998, demand for the coins began to pick up considerably when the price of gold fell below $300 an ounce.

The Mint also sold 114,250 ounces of platinum in the first nine months of 1998 and silver American Eagle Bullion Coins reached 2.86 million ounces sold in 1998.

Along with the Y2K problem, a large number of people are worried about the stock market being way over-valued. Another group is worried about the introduction of the euro and some are concerned about all three, said Kosares.

Centennial Precious Metals has a waiting list of people wanting to buy American Eagles and the Austrian and Canadian equivalents of the American Eagle.

In a worst-case scenario, a complete breakdown, people could barter these straight across for what they want to buy, Kosares said.

Tedstrom agreed that investing in gold as part of an overall investment portfolio is not a bad choice as long as someone doesn't expect it to do something different than it normally would in these economic times. It's a piece of mind investment.

But he reminded investors that gold, which soared to the $800 an ounce range in the hyperinflation of the late 1970s and which traded at $400 an ounce a few years ago, has been trading at $288 per ounce recently. Many people who dreamed of wealth from gold found instead they owned a wasting asset -- which paid no dividends and could be tough to store safely and sell.

Gold has been a terrible investment because it has lost money relative to inflation, said Tedstrom.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 23:02
TheMissingLink (Budget surplus) ID#371380:
What is a budget surplus but the government screwing up in collecting too much revenue? Fix the tax collection problem to reflect current financing needs.

Why is it assumed that if the government collects too much tax for current programs, that it is their to keep ( Democrat ) or theirs to give as a tax cut ( Republican ) . Just don't collect it!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:58
Earl (Envy:) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If you're considering the third world the sealed with a handshake business is not likely to come to pass. As well, don't ignore the cost of crossing palms.

I agree that there are many advantages but there are many disadvantages as well. One of the more formidable is the lack of a commercial code in many cases. Your legal standing in a dispute may be decided by a peoples committee. And the law will be whatever they want it to be on any given day. They are probably no more corrupt than here. It's just that the corruption 'over there' takes on a more personal form.

From what I have seen, it's almost mandatory that the foreign operation have personal oversight on a full time basis. If not, unusual things will happen to your resouces. ..... Which means living there. I never viewed that as a negative but it's not necessarily to everyone taste.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:56
TheMissingLink (Clinton Speech) ID#371380:
Great, we will save social security and medicare until 2030 when I will be 65. The hell with it then, I will have supported this bloated baby boom generation.

I think they are scared to hell that my generation X will strip them of their benefits as it becomes a great burden to us over the next 20-30 years.

Good, let them quake.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:50
HighRise (TOPEKA) ID#401460:
TOPEKA, Kan. ( AP ) - A reverend began the Kansas Senate's session Tuesday with a prayer that made reference to the impeachment scandal surrounding President Clinton, which angered some Democrats.

``Lord, we stand before you a nation in need with a president in need,'' the Rev. Gene Price said. ``I'm interceding to see the floodgates of deception, unfaithfulness, lies, broken oaths and covenants stopped; the example set by
our highest office in the land.''

HighRise

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:45
ERLE (SIOP, I heard that one too,) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I just let it go for someone else to comment on it.
Seriously, There hasn't been much comment on gold, and, a bunch of us are getting bored and financially distraught ( killed ) , by this paper wonder.
This past year has been an anamoly in the history of hard money. The fundlementals get worse, and the mania grows. I will use the teachings of the past year to guide me when the present mania collapses.
I will stick with the goldstocks that I have accumulated for a while, tempered by the advise of experienced gentlemen such as Nick@C, JD, and all of the other objective observers here. ( It's amazing how you'll listen to someone with a proven record. )
I will repeat again that DA had the most astonishingly accurate call that was dated a year ago. Pick the low within a dollar, and pick the high within two? What's this gent on?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:42
Chicken man (cherokee (Peace pipe)) ID#341225:
cherokee....peace brother..I'm sorry, but what your are saying ain't coming thru...I feel you have a great insight...but for my sake,it needs to be clearer

BTW what you smoking in that pipe...just joking

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:41
Envy (@ERLE) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've been investigating methods and strategies designed to minimize the burden placed on business people who currently have all their operations in the US. There are legal and ethical ways to get the monkey off your back. One way is to go overseas and start hiring people from other countries to work, lots of advantages to that including minimal paperwork, higher wages for the workers, lower costs and overhead, less regulation, decreased exposure to the potential liability of operating in a sue-happy society, etc. Overseas you can hire whomever you want, make a binding agreement with a handshake, and pay higher wages because you minimize the burden imposed on employers of American workers. I haven't made any decisions about the structure of my next business, but I'm considering all the options.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:39
silver plate (attention all:) ID#288433:
At 6pm est THE MESSIAH ARRIVED. Henceforth the new millenium

will be known as 1999 BC. ( before clinton ) . Let us make a new constitutional amendment giving him the right to a 3 or 4th or maybe life tenure. Everyone and everything was mentioned and will be helped except for one forgotten group the gold bugs. BOO hoo Boo hoo Boo hoo ......

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:28
Chicken man (Tantalus ( down on the farm)) ID#341225:
Down here we call that a bull sh*tter...but you are right!...a goat leading the sheepol to slaughter


From the coop..

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:27
ERLE (Harder Work, and More of it.) ID#190411:
Clinton promises for the middle class.
The Presidente also warned the rest of the world to Stop laughing at me, or I'll bomb your foreign ass.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:26
SIOP (BJ C as cogent as a syphillic crazed Hitler.Rapist,perjurer,draft dodger,traitor.) ID#286404:
He wants a new mental health program so it can cover his sexual-predator-rapist addiction.He wants to invest the budget surplus ( why not pay off the debt ) into the Social Security Trust fund-that the politicians have ROBBED!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:21
skinny (Jack) ID#290215:
E me at jimjanr@quickbyte.net

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:17
Chicken man (Jack ( lets talk Gold)) ID#341225:
Copyright © 1998 Chicken man/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Did you ever wonder how the POG would be affected by:

Imbeded chips in the controls of the elevators of the under ground mines...esp South Africa deep mines?

How would the mills perform?...can't beleive there aren't any in that mess of controls

Would the chemical plants still be delivering leaching chemicals?

Would a break down of the derivative markets end the trading of gold as we know it now?

Just about forgot another small variable...Would not having electricity cause the mines to turn out the lights?

From a chicken who wonders...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:11
ERLE (Jack) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BJ C just said we have to cum through for someone, although I lost track of who it might be.
The gold market is non-descript, what's there to say? Should we get exercised about a one tonne sale? Or was it a bookkeeping adjustment?
The guy that was on CNBC that was baffled that the talking head didn't understand his 300.00+ call before the end of the current contract seems to say it for me. The short position is chronicled on Steven Kaplan's site. He has been right on this sort of call, for the most part. I have a big problem with the CRB, but this might be a fakeout in the imminent plunge of the USD. The Brasilenos that were in gold held their value.
It's coming here, in the seat of global warming.
Also, I think that it's fine that the government disarms us. We need safety.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:10
crazytimes (Regarding Mike Sheller's comment about when the top is in......) ID#344326:
It may be now. Just listen to Slick speak. Everything is perfect....We've never had it better. As I listen to Slick, ( aside from wanting to vomit ) I can't help but see his speach as a contrarian indicator.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:04
strat (Prediction...) ID#93241:
Clinton will be offered a job by Richard Branson on the Around-the-World balloon. He will replace the burners currently used to inflate the said vehicle once they figure out how to get a McDonald's installed in such a small space. The guy can blow some hot hair...Wooooo! ( glad I ain't real close...hate too think of what it smells like ) . Would you buy a used car from this man?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:03
Tantalus (@Jack: Apologies from me.) ID#317211:
I simply cannot ignore the man. If nothing else'
he is a superb aurator.

Apologies to same name.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 22:03
Petronius (Envy, do not despair, after all you have bought all this:) ID#225125:
Copyright © 1998 Petronius/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1. An RV or a boat for every Old Fart in America ( It is their Constitutional right, you know, after all, they paid the whopping 2% of their income in taxes when and if they worked )

2. Internet stock for every Old Fart

3. Viagra for every Old Fart

4. Blow-jobs for certain high-ranking government officials and bullets
for those who talk about it

5. A fiefdom for every wanna-be-king in ex-Yugoslavia or Haiti

6. Bunkers and weapons for selected rebels/freedom-fighters/terrorists.

7. Tamahawk missiles to destroy the same bunkers and weapons built in point 6 and for other Wag-the-Dog performances

8. New weapons and secure communications for the People’s Republic of China

9. ICBM technology for People’s Republic of China

10. The government of Mexico that makes its people poor so that they travel north to provide incentives for the CNN-watching North-American imbeciles to agree to DNA coded national identity cards.

11. Secure, CIA-controlled dope routes through Latin America, Turkey, Albania, etc to satisfy those who still have a piece of a brain working after watching CNN.

and much, much more ....

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:59
James (Budget surpluses forever@Should'nt be a problem, as long as the USG) ID#69112:
can continue their financial piracy & rape of several hundred million hapless people wordwide. Just need to keep them living in abject poverty so that they will send all the products that U.S. consumers require at ridiculously low prices.

Great idea to invest social security in the stock mkt. They could just put it all in MSFT & get 35% per year.

I guess everyone can just ignore the 5 trillion debt & it will go away.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:55
ERLE (Envy,) ID#190411:
You are going to pay his tab. Being thirty years old and having popped your head above the froth, I can see why you are surprised that they are shooting at your head.
Get over it, this is the new fascism.
This is why I listen to the voice of reason as Spudmaster.
.
America to lead. BJC.
We gotta stop them savages so'in they don't bomb our Viagra plants.

1776 NOW.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:53
Chicken man (That bird didn't work ) ID#341225:
Lets try this one http://biz.yahoo.com/n/z/z0002.html

Scroll down on todays news

BTW..shall we take roll call @ Kitco now

Feathers burning....Chicken man

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:52
kiwi (Euro, just another piece of toilet paper....) ID#194311:
... destined to be inflated and debased like all paper currencies.

Expect a water torture of drip feeding sales onto the market with much hoopla to keep gold demand down as long as possible, in tandem with gold leasing into hyper-leveraged futures market gold price will drop further. ECB has demonstrated clearly it has no interest in respecting gold as money and it's toilet paper currency will go the way of all others ...... the clear message is SELL EURO .... BUY GOLD.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:51
gert frobe (Hey Mike: What's the astro analysis for gold over next 6 mos?) ID#42963:
Yo.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:47
Chicken man (T-bond traders) ID#341225:
If T-bond options are your fancy check out how the open interest is positioned
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/9m.html>http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/9m.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/9m.html

Think I screwed up ...one was suppose to be puts the other calls

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:46
Jack () ID#253298:
To keep from barfing, I don't ( never ) watch Klintnity on TV and come over to Kitco and I read all about him. Now I'm BARFing like a SOB.
Geeze, don't anyone talk about gold overhere.




Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:46
Raul Duke (Y2K) ID#22852:

Just made it into the State of the Union Address. Its official....

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:45
skinny (Kiwi 20.20) ID#290215:
Copyright © 1998 skinny/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I read your book and did enjoy it.
Very interesting of the comments of Karl Marx, perhaps he did understand a proper fiscal management in one sense. But himself being a Socialist, tends to make it interesting.'''' Marxist Russia is his legacy.
There is no sound fiscal managment with socialism, it cannot exist in that form for any length of time.
You are going back many years in time, there are many people since 1933 still waiting for the next depression, I have seen many times in my life were people were saying,,,, Yes this is it and it wasn't,,,, we are still waiting for the next depression,,,,, The question I have is will the gold standard realy stop it.
Personaly thinking from reading history,,,I would accept the Knight Templar system as being superior to any... they had the gold... operated the banking system.,,,, the Monarchs themselves had to finance thru them.
As it normally is ,,the Monarchs controlled the armys.... so much for the templars.....HHHHHHHHmmmmmm.
John Disney...... Beware the Rosey Cross


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:44
Tantalus (Is that Al Gore just behind him, or an Al Gore puppet.) ID#317211:
I think I can see the strings.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:42
Smithy (APH ) ID#288353:
Copyright © 1998 Smithy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
APH - I keep looking at this stock market and the worsening A/D chart, record bullish sentiment and toppy put/call ratios on one side, and the apparently solid long term downward trend in interest rates on the other. I was wondering
1 ) can this market fall in a big way caused by deteriorating breadth while rates are still trending lower?
2 ) the underlying premise of Elliott wave is swings of optimism and pessimism - do you give credence to this, or only interest rates?
3 ) do you think Y2K is a wall against which this market will come unstuck? If so, that would appear to make leap puts a good bet anywhere around these levels.
I would appreciate any comments you may have.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:42
lady_bug (JP good to have you back) ID#320202:
missed your posts !!

C.C ..it's in the mail !!

Fred@Vienna , where are you?

I am off to Vienna
l_b

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:40
ERLE (USelesssAvingaccounts) ID#190411:
-
Internet for all kids, so they can pose for Larry Flynt, 100000 new teachers for rubber instruction, save everything, eat me alive.
President Clinton gives his annual State of the Union address this month. He'll
reveal a new plan for cutting the cost of government. A lot of the work could be
done by interns.
.


TITANIC VIDEO: $9.99 on Internet.
CLINTON VIDEO: $9.99 on Internet.

TITANIC VIDEO: Over 3 hours long.
CLINTON VIDEO: Over 3 hours long.

TITANIC VIDEO: The story of Jack and Rose, their forbidden love, subsequent
catastrophe.
CLINTON VIDEO: The story of Bill and Monica, their forbidden love, subsequent
catastrophe.

TITANIC VIDEO: Villain: White Star Line.
CLINTON VIDEO: Villain: Ken Starr.

TITANIC VIDEO: Jack is a starving artist.
CLINTON VIDEO: Bill is a bullshit artist.

TITANIC VIDEO: In one part, Jack enjoys a good cigar.
CLINTON VIDEO: Ditto for Bill.

TITANIC VIDEO: During ordeal, Rose's dress gets ruined.
CLINTON VIDEO: Ditto for Monica.

TITANIC VIDEO: Jack teaches Rose to spit.
CLINTON VIDEO: Umm... Let's not go there.

TITANIC VIDEO: Rose gets to keep her jewelry.
CLINTON VIDEO: Monica's forced to return her gifts.

TITANIC VIDEO: Behind the scenes: Leonardo DiCaprio is wildly popular.
CLINTON VIDEO: Behind the scenes: Bill Clinton's approval rating is at 70%.

TITANIC VIDEO: Jack surrenders to an icy death.
CLINTON VIDEO: Bill goes home to Hillary.

Q: Why did Clinton go to the Middle East?

A: He thought the Gaza Strip was a topless bar.


Bill Clinton says that no matter what he'll refuse to quit.

He rather continue to stick it out in the White house.


Why did Clinton name his dog Buddy?
Because he couldn't bear saying, Come, Spot!


This guy is better than Henny Youngman!

This speech is an advertisement for gold ownership. The dopes that will have to pay for this profligacy will need something other than their wierd green paper to cover their looted property.
Gollum, take a break from the sweaty labor of pulling the handles. This guy has done it for you.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:38
Envy (Apologies) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Apologies for going on and on about it, but geezus. Before I write sign the check for my 98 taxes, can someone explain to me what I just bought with my money ? I heard something about a dollar raise in the minimum wage, some new schools, teachers, saving social security or medicare, I forget which it was, and a bunch of other stuff. I'm getting dizzy. I feel like I just went to the mall with someone and they started piling gifts up at the register, gifts for everyone in America, and then they turned around and told me I was buying. I don't want to buy. I'm tired of buying. I vote everyone in America buy for themselves. If you want health care, get a friggin health care plan. If you want money when you retire, save some damn money while you're young. If you want better schools in your town, go to city council and work it out. I've got my own town to worry about, find a way to pay for your own teachers.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:35
Chicken man (Hey Slick) ID#341225:
Billy boy mind explaining this set of # http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

Of course...New era book keeping....

127 bil deeper in the hole since last year!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:33
neer-do-well (curmudgeon) ID#391172:
your inyials A.C.?


G.M.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:33
crazytimes (An interesting thought?) ID#344326:
I read on another thread that perhaps the announcement of the sale of gold by a Central Bank might actually be another deal worked out for some hedge fund to cover their short position in Gold. Any guesses? LTCM? Goldman's Sack?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:29
Chicken man (Slick Willy and his Dog and Pony Show) ID#341225:
Started to watch slime ball on the boob tube...could not take it any more!...What a crowd...dogs stand on their hind legs ever other minute and clap,hoop and hollar while the ponies sit..reminds one of a two bit circus...now we are going to see who the clinton fans on Kitco are! ( no posts for the next hour

Going to look for some neat stuff for the option traders...be back

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:26
cherokee (@.....yar...that.be.he......) ID#343449:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

lsteve...

most excellent....thank you!


'the stars my destination'

gullye foyle...swept-up by the machine.......
and left to die in space....yet he 'saw' the
truth....and the truth set him free............

'take a war to make you spend....take a jam to make
you think...take a challenge to make you great...
i give you the stars.......' gullye foyle...

he taught me to jaunt....and to see....30 yrs ago....
lsteve wins the race...now some can
begin their journey.....

lsteve....you have earned a seat in the ssm...
join the giants of the aether at your whim...


jaunt my kitco brothers.....jaunt as gullye foyle
and take the first step......he did.....you can.

'got a heart in you and feel empties'.....gf.....

cherokee!;...he.knew...war.cometh.in.colors.....yar!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:23
Envy (Surplus) ID#219363:
I vote the government writes one big check to pay off part of the debt.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:23
tolerant1 (Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...its unspent for a very simple reason...) ID#20359:
it does not exist...the money that is...America is broke, there is no surplus and the budget being balanced is an outright lie...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:23
Tantalus (So sorry. Lead with a large lie & follow with yet larger ones.) ID#317211:
Hahahahahahaha. The WJC comedy hour.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:19
Envy (Surplus) ID#219363:
Never let a politician near a pot of unspent money.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:19
tolerant1 (The man is a social planner with an unlimited counterfeit check-book...I propose, I propose) ID#20359:
to promise you anything...to stay in office...please...pretty please...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:14
buff (Social Security - Lets buy the Internet Now) ID#66144:
Oh Hum

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:13
tolerant1 (ERLE, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...Clintler is priceless...he stands before the) ID#20359:
entire country and lies about everything and he gets applause...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:13
Tantalus (Uh-huh. Why not lead with a big lie and follow with small ones.) ID#317211:
Our country is on course for a budget surplus
for the next 25 years.

Tantalus thinks a more nearly correct figure is 50 years,
but I'd never vote for him again anyway. ( I jest, of course )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:09
Rack (Janet Reno's dress is a knockout!! Wonder how many like that) ID#411163:
she owns?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:05
Mo in To (Kitco Sloooooow) ID#347205:
Envy,
Just thought I'd drop in. All my websites are slow tonight or are just not responding, so it's not just Kitco. Actually this is the first one I was able to get into tonight. I'm gonna sign off and watch TV, but not willie winkie.
MofromTo

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 21:03
tolerant1 (Ok folks...) ID#20359:
get out yer wading boots and shovels...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:59
Tantalus (Anyone here follow URPSX - ULTRABEAR PROFUND?) ID#317211:
Closed Fri. @$6.20 Closed today @ $30.48? w/no news.
Or maybe my 'puter just PROBUURRRPD. ( 'scuz me )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:55
Envy (CRB) ID#219363:
Dropped 2 points to 189 today, another 2 or 3 points puts us into new lows. Seems logical that currency float in South America would put the CRB in the dump. Is Kitco slow or is it just me.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:55
Wizened (You Guys!!) ID#242303:
Copyright © 1998 Wizened/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am a frequent visitor, occasional poster and have gold.

We are such eternal optimists ( about gold ) pessimists about everything else.

How many gizzilion posts have I read saying that gold's shine is just around the corner in the last two years.

So here's another one.

IMVHO If gold does not start it's run up to Y2K soon.. and I mean in the next few months then I am going to get very upset, even pessimistic about the metal.

My wild guesses has led me to think that say 20 million people world wide, the anxious, the worried and the prudent wll want to buy a bit of gold just in case. at 10 oz each that should soak up some CB selling. add to that Y2K coins being produced in several countries and present giving etc, that should account for some more.

If all that does not lead to a sustained rally but just an excuse for all those that don't want/need it ie producers, CB, specs to sell more, then we are done for. What else short of a good going banking and currency collapse can pull it up!


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:53
CPO@AU (Mike Sheller ( follow up to Sunday) ID#329186:
Mike have you errected a chart for the abolotion of the gold standard ant interpreted it ? curious
Incidently never seen one for the UN or NATO ( from inception of course )

I shall post this once only

take care
cpo

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:47
Tortfeasor (State of the onion) ID#37463:
Copyright © 1998 Tortfeasor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I hate to see Clinton talking about getting back to the business of the people. There's not a lot of
difference between what Congress and the president do when they are doing busines and what
Clinton has been doing with the chubby broad. Why oh why must these gasseous emissions
monopolize all the television networks. The good news for me is that there is a UNM New Mexico
State basketball game which starts at 7PM MST which will neatly insulate me from the bovine
droppings which most surely will flow from Clintons lips like a putrescent contaminated river
working its way from a poluting mill. How much BS is one person required to endure.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:43
pdeep (Saving SS) ID#174103:
I wouldn't get too worried that the Feds will enter the stock market. Clinton's plan is to continue the equities blow-off at any cost until after the presidential elections. Politically, he knows that both left and right will agree, for different reasons, to nix the plan. But he can prolong the equities rise, and the Dems will be able to use the plan to kill any Repub influenced tax cuts. When the equities markets tank 50% later in the year, even the centrists will call 1-800-BAD-IDEA and take the advice.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:24
ERLE (My previous joke link) ID#190411:
Check 11 Jan, and 7 Jan while you are watching the interminable flatulence that is the state of the union.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:22
kiwi (Gold is money and nothing else.) ID#194311:
Mr. J.P. Morgan

http://www.fame.org/research/library/bma-001.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:17
CPO@AU (Raul Duke ( Who did it?) ID#22852 17:42) ID#329186:
Copyright © 1998 CPO@AU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The propaganda machine,

ECB probably like maaastricht variable goal posts!

I guess some kitcoites may believe the CB's stories about gold sales but I think very few do but if joe public see it they believe it. and it will have a negative effect on the general investing public that cannot think for themselves.

Now if you were to read:



Hot news the XX CB sold 200 tonnes of gold today but there was little effect on the Gold market Loco london which trades 1000 to 1250 tonnes per day with the second FIX up 10Cents a bullion dealer said just an every day transaction and even the little guy is buying coins



OIL will IMHO move up to lead gold interesting that the 300 million barrels ( or was it 600 M ) that were unaccounted for was not resolved!

Guess there will be strategic stockpiling soon,in addition a few weeks back there was a post on The Arabian gulf states Y2K status in which the poster said whilst there is an atempt to resolve this the embeded chips were not being touched.

I would add that the water supply is for the most Desalination plants ( 20,000 embedded chips I think ) it will be thirsty work..........



Anyone care to speculate when the price of oil will move UP?






















Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:15
ERLE (tolerant1, have you seen this one yet?) ID#190411:
All ready for der Fuhrer tonight?

Because nobody’s life, liberty or property is safe while Congress is in session.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/jokeoftheday.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:12
Mike Sheller (nowq why would anybody) ID#348257:
want to post that twice?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:11
kiwi (How to move to a Gold standard....) ID#194311:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa016.html

Under a 100 percent gold standard...the various
countries would have a common monetary system, just
as the various states of the United States now have
a common monetary system. There would be no more
reason to worry about disequilibrium in the balance
of payments in New York City. If each individual
( and institution ) took care to avoid persistent dis-
equilibrium in his personal balance of payments,
that would be enough....The actions of individuals
in maintaining their cash balances at appropriate
levels would automatically take care of the ade-
quacy of each country's money supply.[43]

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:11
Mike Sheller (The Mother of All tops) ID#348257:
For all those waiting to judge where the ultimate top in the stockmarket will be, the answer may have been given today. Now that President Clinton has endorsed a save social security plan ( say what you will, he saved Social Security! ) that seeks to invest about 25% of funds into the STOCK MARKET ( gaggghhh, Arrrrggghhhh ) , it is only a matter of time.

The day that the US gubmint plops its bucks into the bourse is the day the whole shootin' match tops out.

Gaaarunteeed.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:10
Mike Sheller (The Mother of All tops) ID#348257:
For all those waiting to judge where the ultimate top in the stockmarket will be, the answer may have been given today. Now that President Clinton has endorsed a save social security plan ( say what you will, he saved Social Security! ) that seeks to invest about 25% of funds into the STOCK MARKET ( gaggghhh, Arrrrggghhhh ) , it is only a matter of time.

The day that the US gubmint plops its bucks into the bourse is the day the whole shootin' match tops out.

Gaaarunteeed.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:01
ERLE (Leland's Samuelson post:) ID#190411:
This guy is a gommint lovin' type, why is he wringing his hands over the Brazilian debacle? It shows you that the parasitic governments of the world will sacrifice the well being of their country, and the World Government types will sacrifice everyone, before they put governments on a reduced blood diet.
Brazil needs moderate politicians like Spudmaster.
.
gwyz, the comments at the head of that were mine. The article was lifted from Mises.org

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 20:00
africanminer (Quote from last post: ) ID#257313:
Copyright © 1998 africanminer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
But he reminded investors that gold, which soared to the $800 an ounce range in the hyperinflation of the late 1970s and which traded at $400 an ounce a few years ago, has been trading at $288 per ounce recently. Many people who dreamed of wealth from gold found instead they owned a wasting asset -- which paid no dividends and could be tough to store safely and sell.



Gold has been a terrible investment because it has lost money relative to inflation, said Tedstrom.



until we are able to spend our gold accounts electronically ( gold visa ) ( e -gold ) etc. I believe gold will not have a future.



Have the Banks set up gold only accounts where currency can be drawn against the these accounts electronically with fractional charges ( not some 2-5% of transaction ) . Deposit gold the same way or deposit cash the same way. The banks could loan money against these assets earning interest income and paying a % to the customer. even loaning the gold to foreign CB's having the CB pay interest in local currency. I believe a great redistribution of gold among all nations and central banks needs to take place to really stabilize the currency markets. This will create a bigger market for gold ( possibly silver ) making it possible for people to invest in local currency and not have their investments eroded by inflation or devaluation.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:57
crazytimes (Sorry, one mistake in last post....) ID#344326:
Gold was even on Friday. Gold is almost always down on Fridays. It takes a long time to turn a large ship around, but it does seem to be turning.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:52
crazytimes (Important points?) ID#344326:
Gold was up on a FRIDAY, which a few on here have posted. Gold was only down a very small amount on news about Central Bank sales. The market does seem to be changing.......

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:42
Raul Duke (Who did it?) ID#22852:
Copyright © 1998 Raul Duke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So the new European Central Bank is supposed to approve all sales of gold by EMU members, huh? Why is it that one of the member nation's national banks had sold more than a ton of gold last week? This was the news floating around today. Did the sale happen last week? Or did the delivery happen, with maybe the actual sale happening before the end of the year? Who knows? I read here a couple months ago that there would be announcements of sales and leases trickling into this year but that these would be announcements of completed sales from the end of 1998. Did I get that right?

I think gold will bounce off of $280 or so and spring back in a powerful short covering rally to back above $300. The market is vary short now, and if new sales are happening, the price should be falling further. It is not. I think this means it will not - at least not significantly.

Also rumors were heard about the Russians shipping palladium. The market does not believe these rumors, as demonstrated by the $5 rise in spot today. April was up $16.50 last time I looked. More importantly, nobody has been offered any palladium, and nobody has sold any. Yelstin was supposed to have signed some export decrees, but I thought he was in the hospital again, what gives? Maybe they have him propped up on pillows, sipping high powered liquid antibiotics through one of those bendy straws, and making little Xs on important government decrees.

Since last Friday, he has ceded all of Siberia to his brother Yiorga, provided that Yiorga promises to keep it cleanly swept at all times, particularly the yellow snow; ordered the Kremlin to be painted pink ( for the watered down version of communism they are now trying to make float. ) ; ordered that the stiff and mummified body of Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov be placed in the garden to scare away the crows, and finally, he has apparently decreed that they actually have some metal to sell. All of this with a few shaky Xs scratched out with an alcohol addled hand. It's a wonder.

I have seen a lot of words on this site about the problems Russian is having with its minerals production. The wholesale collapse in the prices of all commodities, particularly oil, have also hurt them. If they had it , they would sell it, the argument usually goes. Nobody seems to know what they do have, particularly not the Russians. They are the largest and most powerful clueless nation on earth.

So more rumors of gold sales out of Europe. If A EMU member central bank sold a ton of gold into the open market last week, I want to know who to hang. String 'em up, I say. Go ahead, sell more gold, we got plenty of rope.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:35
Silverbaron (A Curmudgeon) ID#290456:

Welcome! You aren't the first curmudgeon on this forum....only the first one to own up to it. You will be right at home here. Glad to have you aboard.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:35
CPO@AU (gwyz(Y2K=Hoax ? ID#:44161 17:12) ID#329186:
gwyz

Actually I'm finding it slightly easier to put accross or maybe I have been pitching y2k at folks for some time that it comes over better.
As i put the info accross it is much easier to keep throwing in questions so they become involved and and start ( I hope ) thinking.

Whenever an electronic till throws a wobble I say don't worry none will work at the end of the yearsome laugh but older ones eg to me you don't know the halfe of it! may Son is in the Navy and its scarey! so it is filtering down.



Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:05
A Curmudgeon (Hi) ID#257183:
Good site you guys are running.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:03
Donald (Greenspan dilema: stocks or bonds up, pick only one) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/boo.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 19:01
Leland (Robert J. Samuelson -- MESSAGE FROM BRAZIL) ID#31876:
http://www.newsweek.com:80/nw-srv/printed/us/in/sa0104_1.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 18:58
Donald (Rebel Brazilian state wins injunction against federal government) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/bn7.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 18:52
Speed (Gold Softer on ECB Sales News) ID#29048:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/1t.html

``I am a bit surprised that it didn't react but it shows you how short the market really is,'' the dealer said.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 18:43
Savage (....2nd request...?..) ID#290202:
Anybody know what happened to EJ? Why doesn't he post here anymore?
Something happen in the last few weeks? ( or for that matter, why did RJ
throw in the towel? ) Just when it's about to get interestin'........................

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 18:42
Envy (Mutuals) ID#219363:
Mutual fund guy on television just now said that 1/3 of mututal funds lost money in 98.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 18:39
gwyz (@ERLE) ID#44161:
I like the Python dude!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 18:08
ERLE (From The Wall Street Journal) ID#190411:
-
The IMF is laughing at you. Citibank spits on you. Chase farts in your general direction. You stupid taxpayers:
Today's Wall Street Journal ( January 19, 1998 ) carries a solid analysis by
George Melloan of the IMF's role in fixing, actually precipitating, the
events leading Brazilian currency devaluation. He writes, in part:

Congress succumbed in October and a grateful IMF handed Brazil a $41
billion IMF package. But Brazil went the way of the Asian tigers anyhow....
Brazil still had some $45 billion in October when the IMF proffered its new
credit line and dispatched a $9 billion first tranche. This was supposed to
show the markets that Brazil could easily defend its admirable Real Plan,
which pegged the real to the U.S. dollar but allowed a very gradual
devaluation.

The markets were not impressed. What's a lousy $54 billion in a global
foreign exchange market that turns over at least $1.5 trillion every day?
The only people who were impressed were Brazilian politicians, for whom $41
billion looked like a lot of money, quite enough for them to go on merrily
spending as if there would be no tomorrow, funding welfare programs and
pork-barrel projects. The markets, instead of looking at the IMF bailout,
were looking at the behavior of the politicians, the swollen Brazilian
budget, its vast and heavily featherbedded public sector and its $300
billion in debt that was compounding rapidly because of the high interest
rates the central bank was using in a vain effort to defend the Real Plan.

The silence at the Treasury and the IMF last week was surely because those
institutions knew that they had sold Congress a bill of goods. This was not
a time to bluster, but rather a time for damage control. Francisco Lopes,
Brazil's new central banker hired to do the dirty work, had ill-advisedly
declared that the devaluation was consistent with the IMF deal last October.
That must have embarrassed Camdessus and company, who have taken a lot of
flak for promoting those disastrous devaluations in Asia. Mr. Lopes and
Brazilian Finance Minister Pedro Malan were summoned to Washington, perhaps
to try to help Mr. Camdessus, Mr. Rubin and Mr. Summers work out a
better-sounding story.

But finding a better-sounding story isn't easy. The string of disasters
midwifed by the global money managers since 1997 is reflective not only of
misjudgments but of a fatal flaw in the existing architecture. ...[A]
president who spends most of his working hours figuring out how to buy votes
with public money is not likely to be very critical of a multilateral agency
that does pretty much the same thing. It subsidizes two very influential
constituencies, international bankers and the profligate politicians who
preside over such places as Russia, Indonesia and Brazil.

These bankers and politicians got the IMF's number a long time ago. They
knew that institutions, like natural organisms, fight for self-preservation.
The IMF keeps itself in business by winkling money out of rich nations such
as the U.S. and handing it out to the poorer brethren, who usually are poor
because of gross economic mismanagement. In this age in which income
transfers are deeply imbedded in politics, the IMF doesn't lack for clients.

What is absent is any convincing evidence that this has made the world a
better place. Africa appears to be regressing, despite the billions poured
into it by the IMF, U.S. aid agencies and the World Bank. Asia, acting
partly on IMF and Treasury advice, took a big step backward, in terms of
living standards, with the 1997 devaluations, as did Mexico in 1994. The
Brazilian and Russian governments, living well beyond their means, were
shielded from reality for far too long. The people in such places now must
pay a price and their politicians will blame everyone but themselves,
including Bill Clinton and Michel Camdessus.

The IMF has proved that it is impossible to get good conduct from
politicians by subsidizing their bad conduct. President Fernando Henrique
Cardoso made himself very popular when he killed hyperinflation and gave his
country a solid currency with the Real Plan. But he didn't follow through by
reforming government itself. Had there been no international safety net
supplied by an act of Congress, he might have seen fit to work harder. There
should have been plenty of evidence around that a monetary policy alone
cannot compensate for governmental indiscipline.

So it's back to the drawing board for the U.S. Treasury and the IMF. Will
they really come up with some new architecture this time, something like
going out of the global management business? Don't count on it.

Http://interactive.wsj.com

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:58
ERLE (Microsoft/Anglogold) ID#190411:
Price 155.625/21.5
P/E.... 73.41/12.64
Price/Sales MSFT 24.95

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:37
tolerant1 (yap...yap...yap...facts are facts...Y2K...nobody knows...gold and silver...ultimate store of value) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
GOLD BUYING FRENZY PICKING UP STEAM
[commentary]
The Denver Business Journal prints a Y2K-skeptical story that nonetheless describes the gold buying frenzy now underway. First paragraph: Investors scrambling to prepare for the Year 2000 are snapping up gold coins and gold bars as a hedge against the potential disaster they believe could occur on the first of the year.

Notice how the Business Journal qualifies the Y2K problem with, they believe rather than just admitting the potential disaster could occur. The subhead of the story, too, claims, ... but gold coins may be bad investment. That's true with any investment. Any investment may be bad. So the subhead adds zero content to the story, and the story itself offers nothing to back up the idea that gold might be a bad Y2K hedge.

The story goes on to report:
People are buying a variety of gold, silver and platinum coins because of Y2K concerns, said Margaret Olsen, president of Westminster Coin & Jewelry Ltd. Because all metals prices have hit rock bottom, it's a good time to buy, she added. People want insurance, something available if banks have computer problems, Olsen said.

Story at:

http://www.amcity.com/denver/stories/1999/01/18/story4.html?h=y2k

more to be found at: http://www.y2knewswire.com/19990119.htm


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:33
Nick@C (Oh, good!! A Kitco war!! ) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A little excitement while we wait for gold to get off its derriere.
............................
............................
Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:08
aurator ( Sovereignty & Suzerainty the difference is important ) ID#255285:
snip---
It is a bit rich that Germany is attempting to dictate the tax policies of the Channel Islands. The Isle of Mann, is part of the UK, but the Channel Islands are Constitutionally Independent. The memories of the brutality of German Occupation in WWII and the current heavy handedness of German edicts are not being received well in the land of my forebears.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:20
ALBERICH ( @aurator & JTF: I liked the term Sovereignty & Suzerainty ) ID#212197:
snip---
aurator: I'm deeply aware of how tender all these allied bombs were in their effect on civilians and how gracefull and sensitive all the allied soldiers, including the red army, behaved towards German civilians.
..............................................
..............................................
Now, since my father flew 22 Lancaster bomber missions over Germany ( and was the only member of his crew to survive the war after being shot down twice ) , which side shall I take

When is Hogan's Heroes coming back on

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:28
James (Another ho-hum Q for MSFT. They beat estimates by 24%.) ID#69112:
The wonders of free enterprise & competition. I guess I did benefit by a few $ because they're such a large % of the SPDR tech fund.

I wonder what Greenspin will have to say tomorrow. Kind of doubt if he will say anthing profound, especially after his experience 4000 Dow points ago.

If everything works out the way I'm hoping, I'll stay long XLK for another 5-10% & then switch to the short side next month & be positioned for the spring tech sell-off. The best laid plans of mice & men...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:26
Raul Duke (Gwyz) ID#22852:
Copyright © 1998 Raul Duke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Even those people I speak with who think Y2K is bunk tend to think that the whole thing will be over-hyped. Just like the fall TV season; lots of commercials but no real meat. Once Y2K is on every magazine cover, and is the lead in most news broadcasts, people will be worried. They will flock to protection. They may be in time, they may not. I'm betting they won't.

I think silver in building a nice bottom here. A breakthrough of 5.40 could take us to 5.80 in two shakes IMHO. A failure again up near there and, look out, $4.80 here we come. Palladium wants to stay above $300. Who would have thought a year ago that it would ever go above $300? Platinum has pulled back about half of the last rally, but I think it may fall some more before it turns around.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:12
gwyz (Y2k = Hoax ?) ID#44161:
Copyright © 1998 gwyz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am becoming concerned with the sheer numbers of people ( sheeple ) declaring for themselves with certainty, that Y2k is a Hoax, or a Non-event.

I think the true catalyst for this delemma is Y2k Burnout. These people are hearing the word Y2k so much that they now associate it with a negative thought. That makes it very easy to delude themselves into believing in that Y2k ia a joke. The association between Y2k and Hoax has been engraved like a stone in their minds.

From here on out I am going to use terms like the year 2000 problem, etc. Anything to distance myself for being taken as a loonie before I can even make my case.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:11
BillD (Charleston....from USAGold site:) ID#258427:
USAGOLD ( 01/19/99; 12:15:07MDT - Msg ID:1931 )
Surprise gold sale....
Frankfurt, Jan 19 ( Reuters ) The European Central Bank on Tuesday said gold reserves held by the
European System of Central Banks ( ESCB ) slipped by nine million euros ( $10.44 ) in the last week
due to the sale of gold by one national central bank.

The stock of gold decreased slightly due to a samll sale by one national central bank, the ECB said
in its regular weekly consolidated financial statement.



*** End of page :- )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:10
LSteve (More Gully Foyle) ID#316256:
Copyright © 1998 LSteve/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gonna sermonize, me

The following was written by Alfred Bester in his brilliant novel, The Stars My Destination. Although intended for a 25th
century audience, Foyle's speech is equally applicable today.

Foyle shook himself and abruptly jaunted to the bronze head of
Eros, fifty feet above the counter of Picadilly Circus. He perched
precariously and bawled: Listen a me, all you! Listen, man!
Gonna sermonize, me! Dig this, you!

He was answered with a roar.

You pigs, you. You goof like pigs, is all. You got the most in you,
and you use the least. You hear me, you? Got a million in you and
spend pennies. Got a genius in you and think crazies. Got a heart
in you and feel empties. All a you. Every you...

He was jeered. He continued with the hysterical passion of the
possessed.

Take a war to make you spend. Take a jam to make you think.
Take a challenge to make you great. Rest of the time you sit around
lazy, you. Pigs, you! All right, God damn you! I challenge you, me.
Die or live and be great. Blow yourselves to Christ gone or come
and find me, Gully Foyle, and I make you men. I make you great. I
give you the stars.

He disappeared.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:09
JP (I'm back posting) ID#25198:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I just got back from Brazil. Brazil is sinking with the Real becoming
worthless. Interest rates in brazil are rising and a deep recession
is unfolding. The Real devaluation is very deflationary and will increase US trade deficit substantially with all the countries in South America. I expect to see devaluations in the rest of South America. Every devaluation or a reneg will drive people away from paper money into gold and silver. The price of gold should NOW begin a slow move which will discount a severe recession in the US by rising above $310-320. On Dec 31,99, the XAU was 61 and today it closed at 67.58. The CRB is beginning to collapse again as deflation accelerate and it should take out it's previous low's of 187. Don't lose the faith in gold and silver. Our day has arrived.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 17:00
Charleston Gold Bug (ECB Gold Sales ?) ID#344389:
Bridge/CRB is reporting ECB gold sales today. Any confirmation?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:52
Uncle Scrooge (lefty kiwi) ID#275285:
Implosions of the blood interesting
Gold is present in the food chain and sea water
Had many esoteric experiences years ago whilst drinking a cup of sea water every day for 6 months
Maybe the grand plan of our financial feudal lords is to get the POG down low enough so it can be used as fertilizer. Golden apples/tree of knowledge.
Farming sector could be heading for a boom

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:50
LSteve (Gullye Foyle) ID#316256:
How about Alferd Bester? Wasn't Gullye Foyle some sort of space fairing merchant marine?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:49
LSteve (Gullye Foyle) ID#316256:
How about Alferd Bester?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:40
cherokee (@......bwav.......loaitssm.....) ID#343449:

lsteve....

ok....good...good.....

now.....

who is gullye foyle?.....yar.....who is he?

'love is like..oxygen...you get too much..you get too high......
...not enough and your gonna die...love gets you by...'

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:35
LSteve (Cherokee) ID#316256:
a...lensman...level.3... Is that from E.E. Doc Smith

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:27
ORCA (The Suckers Bring Their Money; Wall Street Supplies the Matches ) ID#231337:
Another article on the massive scam now taken place in the US equities marketplace .... in Decembers HARPER's MAGAZINE, an article by Ted. C. Fishman, entitled The Suckers Bring Their Money; Wall Street Supplies the Matches..

A must read for all who are starting to see the manipulation. Gold is not mentioned, but the extension of the scenario leads to a discussion of what is real wealth, and how is it created and retained.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:25
cherokee (@...lensman...level.3...) ID#343449:

expect the un-expected.....
a chop-asaki from afar.........
i sees burnt offerings............
but nothing can stay the horror.

ibwamfos....yar.

!;....off.to.the.archives.....bbmlwcftg....

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:20
ALBERICH (@aurator & JTF: I liked the term Sovereignty & Suzerainty) ID#212197:
...especially Suzerainty, of which I discover new forms of it all over in the $-dominated empires.

As far as I'm informed, only two of the 20 EU commissioneers are suspects of corruption and therefore the EU parliament was hesitant to fire the entire commission. Because they cannot fire just two. Either all or none.
Unfortunately.

aurator: I'm deeply aware of how tender all these allied bombs were in their effect on civilians and how gracefull and sensitive all the allied soldiers, including the red army, behaved towards German civilians.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:18
FOX-MAN (COMEX METAL WAREHOUSE TOTALS...) ID#288186:
COMEX Metal Warehouse statistics for Jan. 19

-- TOTALS
Gold 808,401 - 809 troy ounces
Silver 75,475,382 - 17,566 troy ounces
Copper 99,752 + 330 short tons

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:03
STUDIO.R (@sir studio stupidO's state of the onion.........) ID#119358:
My fellow world orderoids, NEVER have so many sacrificed so much for the benefit of so few. studio.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 16:02
morbius (esotericist ) ID#35757:
I can't beleive you were impressed with the presentation of that slug.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:59
Explorer (Argentina Considers Using Dollar__or a step toward one world currency?) ID#230243:

Basic reasons are contained in article, mention made how Argentina planned distance itself from 1994 Mexican devaluation.
Or is it something else, like; when the worlds excess dollars start heading back toward the US, Latin America can be the overflow sump to hold potential inflation down in the US.
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/990118/argentina_1.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:59
Explorer (Argentina Considers Using Dollar__or a step toward one world currency?) ID#230243:

Basic reasons are contained in article, mention made how Argentina planned distance itself from 1994 Mexican devaluation.
Or is it something else, like; when the worlds excess dollars start heading back toward the US, Latin America can be the overflow sump to hold potential inflation down in the US.
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/990118/argentina/_1.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:56
tolerant1 (esotericist , Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I could not disagree more...) ID#20359:
Clintler won nothing today...more slick talk from another pie hole...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:53
morbius (yellowcab ) ID#35757:
Clinton will NEVER resign.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:49
esotericist (Clinton home free) ID#224230:
Barring some new skeleton or totally unexpected witness testimony Clinton is home free after Charles Ruff's outstanding presentation.

He convincingly destroyed the whole House Manager's case.

And his final My father was on Omaha beach and wasn't fighting for either side of this case, he was fighting for the constitution was brilliant.

I don't like Clinton - but this frankly the House Managers have blown it now.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:42
africanminer (Price of gold wont move up until price of oil moves up....period.) ID#257313:
.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:40
Ronald Jett (sunshine mining report) ID#413119:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990119/id_sunshin_1.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:15
Silverbaron (crazytimes @CAFR) ID#288466:
Here's the original ( I think ) link that appeared here on the subject. I believe that there was at least one followup, but I can't find it.

http://www.sightings.com/ufo2/CAFR.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 15:05
crazytimes (Worth a repeat....I believe this could be possible, but what is CAFR?) ID#344326:
Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:43
mozel ( CAFR @Clinton ) ID#153110:
Saw someone else posted the CAFR information. The uncoverer of these reports calculates 53% of the American equity market is government owned. He has also tracked down why the media is silent. Payola in the form of govermnment jobs with cushy expense accounts. Loans that never have to be paid. The scope of corruption is so vast it is beyond comprehension.

If Clinton is not impeached, it will be a Rubicon for this government.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:57
JTF (Must log off!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yellowcab: Good point. If WJC was a gentleman, or even remotely of the personal integrity of the infamous Richard Millhouse Nixon, he would resign. But -- he does not know the meaning of the word integrity.

He does not appear to know the difference between avoiding conviction in a court of law ( legal innocence ) -- and true innocence.

I see no indication that he will step down, and let Al Gore take over -- even if Al Gore would have a chance now of being elected two terms. One reason WJC will not do this is that Al Gore probably would not survive even one presidential election.

Hillary -- on the other hand -- what a frightening thought!

But then -- Kenneth Starr would probably stop any wishful thinking on her part.

Personnally I see nothing WJC will gain from staying in power to the bitter end, except a delay in prosecution on criminal charges brought forward by Kenneth Starr. If I were WJC, I would resign before Kenneth Starr has time to make more of a case. It would seem to me that delay will only make things worse for him, rather than better. It is almost as if the number of years WJC stays in office is more important than anything else -- how odd! Now -- he isn't naively hoping that he can declare martial law on Y2K, is he?

On the other hand he may be genuinely afraid that if he retires, he may become a liability to the shady group that put him in power. I wonder -- what else can he do for an oncore -- after selling so many military and commercial secrets for votes.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:55
Cyclist (NEM) ID#339274:
covered and long at 19.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:51
tolerant1 (Freedom...yes...yEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The American Conservative Union http://www.conservative.org/

We believe that the Constitution of the United States is the best political charter yet created by men for governing themselves. We reaffirm our belief in the Declaration of Independence, and in particular the belief that our inherent rights are endowed by the Creator. We believe that capitalism is the only economic system of our time that is compatible with political liberty. We believe that when government competes with capitalism, it jeopardizes the natural economic growth of our society and the well-being and freedom of the citizenry.
We believe that it is the responsibility of the individual citizen, whenever his inherent rights are threatened from within or without, to join together with other individuals to protect these rights.

The ACU is a sponsor of the Conservative Political
Action Conference, which will be held January 21-
23 in Arlington, VA.

For details, link to:

http://www.cpac.org/010399pr.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:47
crazytimes (RJ's last post....) ID#344326:
Which was two weeks ago? He said Gold would sidetrack for the first few weeks in 99 and then start its rise. I hope he's right.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:45
tolerant1 (I say we attach a group of...O...Hmmmmmmmm...100 hackers to each politician in) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
the United States to root out all the hidden bank accounts...yeah... thats it...then we put all the findings up on the Internet...I mean if L. Flynt can buy tawdry tails...on certain people...all the people have a RIGHT to know about all...and I mean each and every last one of them and ALL their deals...New and Old...

Once you grease the wheel-chair of Justice there ain't no brakes...I mean if the government wants to stick a microscope in us to get a closer image of the People's sphincter we should be able to look for and at their boxes...and bank accounts...

I love the smell of steamed politicians...yup...uh huh...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:42
Gollum (NEM starting to move a little) ID#424140:

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:41
STUDIO.R (@T#1........home on da' rage.........) ID#119358:
si', mi amigO, I have seen a man killed over a can'O'vienny sausages.......charges were ultimately dismissed out of need.....but to the contrariness, feds are always in season here in the state'O'studio.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:36
lefty kiwi (Uncle Scrooge ) ID#32176:
if you are into Sitchen suggest you study this site

http://www.danwinter.com/orion/orionheart.html

Golden mean Spirals the holy Grail and colloidal gold ( cures cancer and makes you live longer , Kundalini enhancer ) . If we can get everyone drinking this stuff gold wont be a commodity it will be a consumable .
Lefty Kiwi awaiting the arrival of aliens take me to your gold sellers

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:36
lefty kiwi (Uncle Scrooge ) ID#32176:
if you are into Sitchen suggest you study this site

http://www.danwinter.com/orion/orionheart.html

Golden mean Spirals the holy Grail and colloidal gold ( cures cancer and makes you live longer , Kundalini enhancer ) . If we can get everyone drinking this stuff gold wont be a commodity it will be a consumable .
Lefty Kiwi awaiting the arrival of aliens take me to your gold sellers

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:34
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste' gulp and a puff...ain't a man allowed to have an opinion in) ID#20359:
the Great state of STUDIO...up here on the Island that is Long people that spit on the Constitution sleep with the clams...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:34
STUDIO.R (@How do you spell flatulence? huh?) ID#119358:
natural gas @ 95 cents in june.....currently@$1.75.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:33
aurator (Oh Sarnia!) ID#255285:
JTF
Guernseymen are used to protecting their freedoms. Very few UK Parliamentarians understand the constitutional position of the Channel Islands and some of those turkeys are saying the same things about standardising taxes and doing away with Tax Havens.

Guernsey has never given up her independence, nor shall she.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:24
tolerant1 (robnoel, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...these dimwits...what do they think...they own) ID#20359:
thinking...that's a new one on me...they own opinions...NOT!...everybody link to a gold site...do it now...let's ram the Internet and the freedom highway right down their dictatorial throats...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:23
STUDIO.R (@Sippin' at Starbucks.......T#1........) ID#119358:
A maximus GulpO y PuffO to YA!!! yes, mi amigO, coffee and sugar futures are down 10% today. ohmy. what's or who's next? Juan Valdez's mule just ran off..........arribA!!!!!!!!!!! ( spew )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:20
JTF (The 'New World Order' is not taking over the world yet.) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
aurator:

Good to hear that the new European unity is not all-powerful. It is reassuring that some examples of more efficient markets cannot be suppressed.

Too bad Hong Kong is slowly becoming history.

I do not benefit by access to such markets myself, but it is important that they exist as an example to those who wish to suppress free enterprise.

I have nothing against the concept of the 'New World Order' in its ideallized sense -- no wars, more stable trade, one world currency. The only problem is that if the power if the entire world economy is focused on one small group, the potential for tyranny is much greater. Looks like those 20 EC Commissioners have already made a big head start with a corruption scandal even before the 'ink was dry'. Apparently the European parliament was unable to fire them all, due to fear that this would interrupt the EURO launch. Could be that we will have impeachment trials for Boris Yeltsin, the 20 EURO commissioners, and WJC.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:18
Uncle Scrooge (mapleman re your 21.21 post 16/1) ID#275285:
Been watching for some responses but haven't seen any
My conclusion is the zoo keepers are returning
If thats what you concluded you might need to repost some easier clues
Many thanks for the the sitchen clue, had not heard of him before and in looking him up came across some very interesting info and related links
All the best

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:16
Cyclist (NEM) ID#339274:
Short 18 7/8,try that way : )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:15
robnoel (Check this story out.....if you have a web page ....could be a E-Ticket to the big house) ID#410165:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Wired News
Jan. 14, 1999 Declan McCullagh

WASHINGTON -- Ever thought of slapping up a Web page devoted to gold prices? Got an urge to vent about those overpriced pork bellies?
Be careful. Unless a public-interest law firm wins a trial scheduled for 29 March, you could face a US$500,000 fine and five years in federal prison.
That's the penalty a little-known federal agency called the Commodity Futures Trading Commission ( CFTC ) has ordered, and the Institute for Justice is hoping to overturn the decision with a First Amendment lawsuit.
US District Judge Ricardo Urbina rejected the institute's request for summary judgment at a hearing Thursday, saying he needed more information -- and a full trial -- before ruling on the case.
CFTC's Interpretation Regarding Use of Electronic Media requires anyone who wants to publish opinions on commodity futures to ask for a license -- a tedious process that includes fingerprinting, fees, audits, and a background check. Publishing without registration is a federal felony.
They're opinions. You can't license someone who's giving their opinions, Institute for Justice staff attorney Scott Bullock said after the hearing.
This shows the federal government is actively trying to regulate the Internet outside the context of indecency, which has received most of the attention.
Bullock was referring to the well-publicized and ultimately doomed Communications Decency Act, which restricted online indecency. Its successor is the subject of a trial in a Philadelphia federal courtroom next week.
The Institute for Justice -- a nonprofit group staffed by free-market litigators -- sued the CFTC in 1997. The lawsuit claims that requiring a person to register as a commodity trading advisor -- even if the person does not manage funds or offer personal advice -- violates the First Amendment's prohibition on government licensing of the press. Plaintiffs in the suit include Internet publishers, authors, and subscribers.
CFTC in 1996 updated its regulations, which already applied to newsletters, to include the Internet and computer software. The agency defends the rules as a necessary cornerstone of the regulatory framework enacted by Congress to protect consumers.
The regulations say anyone who, for compensation or profit, engages in the business of advising others through electronic media such as the Internet must register with the government. As an example, the agency says an owner of a Web site with a list of hyperlinks recommending other Web sites must register -- or go to jail.
Giving the Institute for Justice a boost in their lawsuit is a similar 1985 Supreme Court case that said petitioners' publications fall within the statutory exclusion for bona fide publications under Securities and Exchange Commission rules, though the justices did not rule on First Amendment grounds.
Congress in 1974 created the CFTC to regulate futures contracts for commodities, including oil, natural gas, currency, electricity, and agricultural products.
Wired News, Jan. 14, 1999

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:14
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya from the Island that is Long...hearty is the) ID#20359:
music sailing over the bay...Jimi H. and it don't get no better than this...unless of course they hang Clintler in prime time for treason...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:08
aurator (Sovereignty & Suzerainty the difference is important) ID#255285:
JTF
Thing is, the off-shore tax havens of Guernsey & Jersey are not part of the United Kingdom, and are not part of the EU.
It is a bit rich that Germany is attempting to dictate the tax policies of the Channel Islands. The Isle of Mann, is part of the UK, but the Channel Islands are Constitutionally Independent. The memories of the brutality of German Occupation in WWII and the current heavy handedness of German edicts are not being received well in the land of my forebears.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 14:02
Cyclist (NEM) ID#339274:
sold 18 7/8,pretty dull action.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:58
STUDIO.R (@Two words that we shall learn to live by.............) ID#119358:
Van Camps.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:56
JTF (The Social Security Shell Game) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SpudMaster: Good point. The excess Social Security funds were being spent on reducing the annual deficit anyway, so putting some of the funds into a 401k or 403b would be an improvement from no savings - - even if the markets collapse.

I must admit that the concept of 'Social Security' is a ludicrous term given that our illustrious government has been robbing the piggie bank for as long as I can remember. As I recall, the Teamsters got in trouble for such things. Just imagine what our government would do to GM if the GM executives ran off with their employee's retirement funds.

On the other side of the Atlantic, the European Governments do the same thing with their entitlements -- as far as I can tell. The German and French tax rates are higher than the US rates, and apparently even more inefficiently spent. I find it really amusing that the main beneficiaries of the EURO launch -- Germany and France -- have decided to export their inefficient taxation/welfare system. I naively thought that the Europeans would find the EURO launch an opportunity to streamline, and improve efficiency. Nothing of the sort. It seems the EURO launch is a perfect opportunity to begin by cracking down on anyone that offers lower cost business -- such as the offshore tax havens.

If the EURO launch goes as I suspect, many efficient markets in Europe are going to bite the dust -- with a 'flight to safety' windfall for the fewer and fewer efficient markets outside the grasp of the EC.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:54
clone (Currency is a socialist concept.) ID#267344:
-c

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:38
yellowcab (whats the odds of clinton resigning tonight?) ID#18355:
he would definately go out a winner. i can hear it now, i just can't do the work of the american people, so it is in the best interest of the country that i resign.

i say the odds are 50/50.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:30
STUDIO.R (@a quick glance at the commod board.......) ID#119358:
should reveal to a market realist....that the times which lay directly in front of us now will make The Grapes of Wrath seem more like a Prince music video. you can't eat information.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:15
Cyclist (XAU) ID#339274:
firming,got back in at 18 7/8.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 13:12
QT (cyclist ~ good timing call for that quickie up, thanx) ID#232390:
POG spot jigging to trawl in uncertain sideline money right now. BUT not alot of XAU'ers biting. What now? a sea-change in afternoon strategy or will they need to throw a little long money in tomorrow in order to keep their shorts healthy. Could go either way this afternoon. Anybody care to offer a point of view...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:43
Cyclist (Nem) ID#339274:
Nem sold at 18 7/8,poor participation.On the sidelines for now

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:39
LGB (Who Sayz you can't make money on mining shares?) ID#269409:
Bought SSRIF just a few short weeks ago at 7/8...... Up over 50% since then.

Up 18% today alone due to Bonanaza drill results!

Goooo Silver.......

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990119/silver_sta_1.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:35
ptwoskool (@JTF) ID#227305:
You also could consider looking at the Isuzu trooper.It is,in spite of what some reports indicate,a very good vehicle that does not have the price twist that the Toyota and Nissan comparables have.The Toyota is, nonetheless, an excellent choice.Good luck.

Outta here to another market.Back later in the week.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:34
Spud Master (@JTF: ...the old lie: Dulce et decorum est.... pro Clintonus ...) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
you wrote:

And now WJC is proposing formally that Social Security funds go into a 401k or 403b -- and hence into the markets.

Oh really? Aren't these the same SS funds that are moved into the Federal Government's general receipts and USED UP each year? Used to
engender the scam notion that we have a budget surplus?

Oh man, the pure, unadulterated BS shooting from the mouth-orifices of Clinton, Greenspan and Rubin just keeps increasing in volume & stench.

Can we ... Are we ... stupid enough ... cow-eyed enough ... entranced enough by PROMISES of a happy new life that we will believe even this
gross, obvious LIE?

our end will not be envious.

Spud, 1776 II

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:27
esotericist (@Year2000 welcome to the neighbourhood) ID#224230:
Options prices :-

Take a look here at http://208.230.184.164

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:13
Mooney* (moonstep@idirect.com) ID#350194:
Gumperson's Law: The probability of anything happening is in inverse ratio to its desirability.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:11
QT (APH... POG 275 ~ XAU low 60's? a time frame.) ID#232390:
a time frame...~ Right now the lunch time upward POG correction fake is in effect. Don't get heartburn when it turns down again....NEM hovering around the 3/4 cyclist called in.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:09
Cyclist (xau) ID#339274:
making a run,sold my bonds

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:02
JTF (On the Sidelines --watching) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: For the moment I am mostly out of the market, trying to sense the winds -- I feel becalmed -- without a motor.

Lou_Jan: Interesting, isn't it? 75% of all 401k ( and 403b? ) funds going into equities like clockwork -- probably on autopilot until employment rolls tail off -- or a heavy duty shock of some kind. Perception of a y2k problem could do it. Given the narrowing market breadth, since approx Apr 98 or so, it is tempting to speculate that most of the funds are going into internet stocks, and some other unnnamed sectors. That does not suggest a healthy market. Without breadth to bouy the markets, only a few markets need to head south to trash the whole Nasdaq, NYSE, or SP500. Prescription for potential disaster if the general market does not wake up.

And now WJC is proposing formally that Social Security funds go into a 401k or 403b -- and hence into the markets. If the markets head south one fine day, Social Security would then be in even a more worse fix, come 2010-2015 when the baby boomers retire. WJC and the Congresss are waiting to see who blinks first. WJC wants to shoot holes in the Congressional proposal, and Congress wants to shoot holes in the WJC proposal -- so nothing will get done -- right away anyway. The impeachment proceeding will prevent a high level of cooperation between congress and the White House.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 12:01
Monkee Person (Thinking of commenting for gold prices on your WWW site? Read on...) ID#350199:
Copyright © 1998 Monkee Person All rights reserved

The CFTC Doesn't Believe in the First Amendment

by Declan McCullagh

WASHINGTON -- Ever thought of slapping up a Web page devoted to gold prices? Got an urge to vent about those overpriced pork bellies?

Be careful. Unless a public-interest law firm wins a trial scheduled for 29 March, you could face a US$500,000 fine and five years in federal prison.

That's the penalty a little-known federal agency called the Commodity Futures Trading Commission ( CFTC ) has ordered, and the Institute for Justice is hoping to overturn the decision with a First Amendment lawsuit.

US District Judge Ricardo Urbina rejected the institute's request for summary judgment at a hearing Thursday, saying he needed more information -- and a full trial -- before ruling on the case.

CFTC's Interpretation Regarding Use of Electronic Media requires anyone who wants to publish opinions on commodity futures to ask for a license -- a tedious process that includes fingerprinting, fees, audits, and a background check. Publishing without registration is a federal felony.

They're opinions. You can't license someone who's giving their opinions, Institute for Justice staff attorney Scott Bullock said after the hearing.

This shows the federal government is actively trying to regulate the Internet outside the context of indecency, which has received most of the attention.

Bullock was referring to the well-publicized and ultimately doomed Communications Decency Act, which restricted online indecency. Its successor is the subject of a trial in a Philadelphia federal courtroom next week.

The Institute for Justice -- a nonprofit group staffed by free-market litigators -- sued the CFTC in 1997. The lawsuit claims that requiring a person to register as a commodity trading advisor -- even if the person does not manage funds or offer personal advice -- violates the First Amendment's prohibition on government licensing of the press. Plaintiffs in the suit include Internet publishers, authors, and subscribers.

CFTC in 1996 updated its regulations, which already applied to newsletters, to include the Internet and computer software. The agency defends the rules as a necessary cornerstone of the regulatory framework enacted by Congress to protect consumers.

The regulations say anyone who, for compensation or profit, engages in the business of advising others through electronic media such as the Internet must register with the government. As an example, the agency says an owner of a Web site with a list of hyperlinks recommending other Web sites must register -- or go to jail.

Giving the Institute for Justice a boost in their lawsuit is a similar 1985 Supreme Court case that said petitioners' publications fall within the statutory exclusion for bona fide publications under Securities and Exchange Commission rules, though the justices did not rule on First Amendment grounds.

Congress in 1974 created the CFTC to regulate futures contracts for commodities, including oil, natural gas, currency, electricity, and agricultural products.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:59
APH (Trading - Gold) ID#255226:
I was short Feb Gold over weekend with an open stop at 288. The high today has been 287.9, it couldn't rally enough to take me out. Look for the move to the 275 area and the XAU to drop to the low 60's.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:48
Cyclist (XAU) ID#339274:
in the positive,should make a run within the half hour.
Bonds up,doing heartwarming well.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:36
Envy (Trade) ID#219363:
Picked up some April out of the money PUTs on Yahoo FWIW

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:32
Year2000 (Index Options? ) ID#228100:
Anyone have a link to the current price of Gold or Silver Index Options? I can't find these on CBS Marketwatch or the other stock sites.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:18
Cyclist (QT) ID#339274:
Stop at 18 1/2,67 break will make the XAU accelerate to 60

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:15
QT (cyclist...what if...XAU jams 67 and NEM firms at 1/2 - 3/8?) ID#232390:
Could spot could see 285 today?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:11
Cyclist (QT) ID#339274:
that was one of the many big blocks crossing the floor.
I'm long 18 3/4 now.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:08
Envy (Brazil) ID#219363:
I'm not interested in buying them, but I would be interested in seeing these high yield bonds their talking about on the news today. Does anyone know where and/or how they are traded ? The news said 41 percent. Appreciate any information.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:08
Lou_Jan (Evermore raising the ante...) ID#320136:
http://www.bloomberg.com/feature.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:07
tolerant1 (I say we bulldoze Hollywood, clean up the environment, give the 12-14 year olds something better...) ID#20359:
http://www.villagevoice.com/arts/9901/braunstein.shtml

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 11:02
QT (cyclist...who was that NEM 34,000 shares? @7/8) ID#232390:
XAU wobbling~

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:55
tolerant1 (Mooney, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better. Anonymous

I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me. John Cleese

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:49
Cyclist (QT) ID#339274:
almost got filled.: )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:46
QT (cyclist...NEM already seen bids at 3/4...XAU touched 68.01) ID#232390:
calling it close, non?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:43
Frail (@tolerant1) ID#341294:
I agree wholeheartedly, & then, try him for TREASON.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:34
tolerant1 (The bum is white trash and its time to throw out the garbage...) ID#20359:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_smith/19990119_xcsof_clintons_w.shtml

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:29
Cyclist (QT) ID#339274:
should be a positive week.Xau 68 and NEM 18 3/4 are support.
Look for 78 max on the top side,silver has greater potential.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:17
AUwolf (North America currency) ID#257282:

TORONTO ( January 18, 1999 2:31 p.m. EST ) - The
launch of a common currency in 11 European nations has
sparked debate in Canada and Mexico over whether
North America's three trading partners should adopt a
comparable monetary union. But don't expect a
NAFTA-style euro any time soon.
http://www.nando.net/noframes/business/0,2114,,00.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:14
QT (cyclist...how low today?) ID#232390:
anemic XAU...NEM 19 1/8 support moving lower...spot drifting down

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:14
Envy (Brazil) ID#219363:
Pretty impressive yield on those Brazilian bonds, 41 percent I think I heard. Inflation could eat that up I guess, but geez, if you bought a zero and held it to maturity u b doing ok. *grin*. What would a 30 year zero cost you at 41 percent ? I never was that quick on a calculator.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:10
Mike Stewart (Technical Update) ID#270253:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Stewart/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The Toronto Mining Issue McClellan Summation Index continues to rise. This is a sign of good breadth and is positive.

The New Lows on Toronto Mining Issues remain below 6 issues per day. The new lows dried up immediately after tax-loss selling season. This is good.

The 200 day MA for the Tornto Gold Index is at 6285 and dropping. I would wait for a break of this level before buying. Today this is negative.

The 220 day MA of gold is at 293.98 and falling as well. This is not good, and a price move above the 220 day MA is needed.

The trend line that rises at 2% weekly from the last major low ( Aug/Sept 98 ) held in late December at 5783 ( Toronto Gold Index ^TGL on Yahoo ) . Since that time it has moved sideways. A new upmove is required to reset the trendline. Until we get it, the trend line is technically broken, but remains above the test in December at 5783. A close below 5783 would spell trouble in my opinion. Keep this in mind.

No reason to do anything here. I would like to see the 200 Day MA broken on the Toronto Golds and would get very defensive if the 5783 can't hold.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:07
NTEOTWAWKI (@tolerant1 - Interesting dilemma) ID#389387:
The technology for the home co-generation has many limitations because it requires that the co-gen unit be hooked up to the grid. The unit incorporates the power for the grid to energize the exciter coils on the induction generator. When the grid goes down, so does your electrical generating capability.

http://www.intelligenenergy.com/intelligen.htm

What's up with Rhodium?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:07
AUwolf (launch date for euro. ) ID#257282:
Copyright © 1998 AUwolf/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
By PAUL AMES

BRUSSELS, Belgium ( January 18, 1999 2:58 p.m. EST
http://www.nandotimes.com ) - European finance ministers will consider
a Belgian proposal to move up the launch date for banknotes
and coins in Europe's new currency, the euro.

The officials ordered a study into the feasibly of a proposal
from Belgium's Jean-Jacques Viseur for introduction of
euro-cash a few months earlier than the current planned
date of Jan. 1, 2002.

An introduction from Oct. 1, 2001 shouldn't pose too many
problems, Viseur told the meeting. Belgium's Deputy Prime
Minister Elio Di Rupo last week said the launch could be
brought forward by a whole year.

http://www.nando.net/noframes/story/0,2107,8891-15304-108230-0,00.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:06
Mooney* (@Tolerant1 and History) ID#350194:
How much History can one view from a 'Box'? ;-0
The judgement of History depends on who writes it. ---Richard M. Nixon

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 10:06
Gollum (... and dives!) ID#424140:

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:52
Cage Rattler (No EU recession, no stocks bubble - Duisenberg ) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Brussels ( Reuters ) - Europe is heading for a period of slower growth because of global economic uncertainties but will steer clear of recession, the head of the European Central Bank said on Monday.

Painting a broadly optimistic picture to the European Parliament's monetary sub-committee, ECB President Wim Duisenberg also played down twin threats of deflation and a stock market bubble.

There is considerable uncertaintly about the impact of external developments on the euro area, not least because of recent events in Brazil, but the slowdown is currently expected to be temporary, he said.

The central bank chief's balanced comments on the outlook for inflation, and his repeated assertion that European interest rates were at the lowest level in decades, suggested he would not be rushed into a further cut in borrowing costs.

We have carefully analysed all available data. There is no suggestion we have entered a deflationary phase, he said. We see on balance no forces for inflation to increase, or inflation to diminish further.

For the foreseeable future we think the level of interest rates . . . is an appropriate one for the current economic situation.

Last month's concerted cut in European interest rates to three percent has reduced the tension between politicians, desperate to shorten lengthy dole queues, and the Frankfurt-based ECB, which is charged with ensuring that inflation in the 11-nation euro zone does not exceed 2%.

But some participants at Monday's regular meeting of EU economy and finance ministers said privately they would welcome another prompt cut in rates to shore up economic confidence.

One minister said growth in the euro zone this year would be closer to two percent than to last year's rate of around three percent and the Commission's 1999 forecast of 2.6 percent.

The debate is what can we do to maintain growth during the year. Monetary policy could help, he said.

The minister, who declined to be identified, noted that with inflation around one percent real interest rates were still quite high.

Duisenberg himself alluded to the pressure he was under from politicians. I have the inclination to talk more about fiscal developments than ministers do.

Ministers have the inclination to talk about monetary developments more than the president of the ECB does, he said.

Duisenberg was sure that Europe was by no means heading for recession and said the ECB had felt no need - at least yet - to revise its economic forecasts even internally.

A similarly reassuring assessment was delivered by the chairman of the EU's powerful economic and financial committee, French Treasury Director Jean Lemierre, who said growth had slowed but was still strong. It's not too alarming, not too worrying, he told the committee.

With Wall Street and European stock markets near record highs even though corporate earnings are slowing, some economists are worried about the risk of a crash in shares that could sap economic confidence and further weaken growth.

But here, too, Duisenberg took a relaxed view. We follow that ( issue ) carefully . . . and we have come to the conclusion that for the time being this is not developing into a bubble which could burst suddenly or unexpectedly, he said.

Even the fall-out of the Brazilian crisis had been limited so far, with Argentina and Mexico justified to date in judging that the impact on them would be containable, the ECB head.

It was left to a politician, French Finance Minister Dominique Strauss-Kahn, to sound the gloomy warnings that usually come from central bankers like Duisenberg.

We're all clearly worried about an economic outlook which appears less bright than we had hoped for and worried . . . about the situation in Brazil, he told reporters.

Was he waiting for the ECB to respond by trimming interest rates again? I think the ECB is following a policy that suits us, Strauss-Kahn said enigmatically.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:44
NTEOTWAWKI (@sharefin - thumper diesel) ID#389387:
Sounds interesting but I would need to place an inverter off the alternator to get single phase 120/220 VAC. Been thinking about a Cummings diesel pickup and add a PTO generator in the bed. A rolling, portable, electrical utility!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:39
esotericist (Good site to watch) ID#224230:
www.LIMresearch.com

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:36
esotericist (Gollum MUST be downstairs. This morning's pretty picture. Hi Ho !) ID#224230:
http://www.aex-optiebeurs.nl/koers/SI.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:34
Cyclist (Time ) ID#339274:
for bonds.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:31
esotericist (New Internet word for us. Disintermediation) ID#224230:
The bottom line of the internet thang is the number of companioes who will have to reinvest ther business models - finding themselves DISINTERMEDIATED as distrubution channels accomodate the new medium.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:20
Cage Rattler (Gold market in Japan) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As far as the Tokyo Metal Market is concerned, the metal prices are so strongly coupled with the USD/JPY rate that a gold investor has to watch the currency market even if no money is directly held in the currencies.

It is a little ironic, I think. I have no money in that market but it is more important than the market where my money has been invested. There is no fundamental or say industrial reason why the gold price should go up, but the gold market has become more of an investment place rather than an industrial commodity market, at leat in Tokyo. In real emergencies where gold is needed, we can always dig big holes in Kagoshima and Hokkaido etc and use the underloaded chemical industry to extract the metal. There is more supply than demand as far as gold in concerned, so I don't see how in a long run the gold should increase its value. - JAPANESE TRADER

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:19
esotericist (@Gollum - Shouldn't you be busy downstairs ?) ID#224230:

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:10
Gollum (The Falcon yawns, stretches...) ID#424140:

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 09:00
Frail (@Steve in TO) ID#341294:
Thanks for the info, but I was already aware of that.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:57
Frail (@Sovereign ) ID#341294:
Didn't get your post until this a.m. If you reaaly don't know what a sapper is, go to the site below & read
http://www3.servtech.com/americal/sixtymin.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:49
Gollum (bonds going down) ID#424140:

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:38
Mike Sheller (Tuesday morning @ the charts) ID#348257:
The immediate short term price pattern looks ominously like a quick drop is in store for Gold & Silver. Gold to 280ish, Silver to 495ish.

If I'm wrong, then I will accept the thanks for rallying these two lacklustre metals.

grate day all! er...I meen great!

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:31
Cyclist (bonds ) ID#339274:
Time to buy in today for the week,as bonds go this week so will
gold this year.I like that : )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:29
Envy (@Sierra) ID#219363:
Nah, I'm guessing they'll rally, but they aren't going to touch the old high I don't think. I'm going to wait until they rally a bit and be on the other side, PUT options in April.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:28
Rumpled (@AVID TRADER) ID#411251:
Copyright © 1998 Rumpled/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

*HEADS-UP COLUMN'S RECENT CALLS*
Last Monday's Heads-Up column ( published daily
on Avid Trader since 1995 ) looked beneath the
surface of the Internet sector's sharp gains,
and called for a significant reversal to begin
within minutes of the open. From that morning's
high to the next morning's open, the CBOE
Internet Index declined 25%! The column is
free for subscribers to our stock-picking
publication, inSight inFormation.
http://avidtrader.com/opinion
http://avidtrader.com/insight


-=-+-=-=-+-=-=-+-=-=-+-=

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:09
sierra (Envy-Internet OTM calls) ID#287280:
I agree with your play. The euphoria on these internets has not yet run out of steam. A minor profit taking correction, but ready for another run. May I ask what April positions you might recommend--affordable ones?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 08:05
Silverbaron (jims @ JSE All gold) ID#288466:
Expanding triangle or wedge?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 07:46
Envy (Trading) ID#219363:
What's the best place to trade online ? Want to open an account somewhere.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 07:36
JTF (WJC and market trends) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Have a look at Dick Morris' editorial on WJC. He's now between a rock and a hard place.

http://www.nypostonline.com/commentary/2837.htm

WJC has just decided to vigorously defend himself in the Senate -- speaking up on all matters where he things criminal charges are being brought forward. I think this is a major mistake by WJC -- his defense should not be that of a defense lawyer - but rather that of someone who has gone astray, and admits it. A legal fight by WJC will only anger the Senators as they will consider this an attack on their office -- an attempt to wrest power from the Senate. The Senate is not a court of law -- they can set their own rules. Wm Rehnquist will keep things fair, but I doubt WJC will get off on the technicality he seeks.

I am amazed the markets have not picked up on WJC's mounting problems. Public testimony -- much more likely now -- is likely to be sensational. Monica has said she would testify. It will be interesting to see what kinds of developments will trash the markets. I do agree with APH that the markets will likely go up if WJC resigns. A long bitter battle in the Senate is a different story all together.

My short-term prediction: The US markets will go up in relation to the WJC's State-of-the-Union address. DOW 10k coming up? Likely. But that's it, and a head and shoulders is forming.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 07:20
JTF (Morning Donald! A question about foreign Brazilian debt.) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just got back from the lake -- nice time -- but '81 Blazer died for the last time. Would not have gotten home last might if Blazer did not work in reverse -- tow truck would not have made back up our steep rocky drive driveway. Got ok from 'real boss' to buy new or ( nearly new ) 4WD. Probably Toyota 4- runner. Hope this one will last nearly 20 years too ( Hope I last another 20 years! ) . Toyota 4 - runner should not be maintenance nightmare of the big Blazer.

Donald, all: I share your scepticism reagarding Brazil, though the money available to throw at the problem should keep them afloat for a while. Question -- although the Real is now floating, does that mean that Brazilian foreign-owned debt has been devalued too, or is it denominated in US dollars? If this is so, this would explain why many of the Brazilian states are threatening to default on their payments, as of this morning. If the foreign owned debt is actually in US dollars, I would guess that the next step is some kind of 'roll over' -- deferred payment. Perhaps do the Mexican gambit with the Bofospoda ( sp? ) -- just take it 'off budget' and congress votes to pay the interest each year.

All: I enjoyed the discussion about whether the 'weak' US dollar has created worldwide problems. I think Mooney or Rhody said that the problem was actually that the US dollar was too strong, not too weak. I agree. It is not a problem of devaluing US reserve dollars -- it is a problem of a dollar getting steadily stronger, and currencies pegged against the dollar getting nailed to the wall. Eg, Hong Kong and Brazil, among others. Perhaps China will have the next forced devaluation. IMHO, the 'powers that be' are trying to make the US dollar weaker, not stronger ( except perhaps our trading partners, who love the current excellent balance of trade ) .

Eventually the use of US dollars as reserve currency in so many CB's will come back to haunt us -- but not until some other currency becomes a serious threat to the dollar. And -- US dollars flood the world markets. It will not be the scandal ridden EURO -- not right away, anyway.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 07:07
jims (I just love this chart) ID#252391:
Thought I'd throw it up again for those who missed the early show.

JSE ALL GOLD Index w/ 50 & 200 day moving averages.
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^JGAI&d=2ym

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 07:00
jims (Gollum: 128 //126 Range on T Bonds) ID#252391:
The departure from this range will be very important. At 126-16,now,
Below 126 and you have an extension to 122 possible.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:54
Gollum (@jims ) ID#43349:
Depends on how weak it is. Too weak and the money leaves the markets and everything else looking for a foreign home.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:47
jims (Gollum: I'm Spot On with you) ID#252391:
Weaker bonds, and its case closed. Buy
The Murphy Effect is on.
Wouldn't be surprised to see the Dow hit 10,000 on a weaker dollar

The Question remains: Dow 10,000 before Gold $315

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:41
rhody (LEASE RATES: Here are this morning's lease rates. (little change)) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

GOLD SILVER
1 MONTH .72 .97
3 MONTH .87 1.67
6 MONTH 1.17 2.62
1 YEAR 1.60 3.10

The gold and silver carry are still in place, and as profitable
as ever. Figures are from the Mutsui Web site. No Bull.
Notice that shorts now have the option of using both one month and
3 month leases to short gold. Under these conditions, gold is
so under control that one wonders if a deflationary collapse is
the only direction possible.

An opposite interpretation is that gold is sitting at its bottom, and
no one is loading up to short it as it has no where to go but up.

Take your pick. I favour option #2. Gold is at bottom and under control.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:40
Gollum (@jims ) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes, stocks down in Europe but gold holding, perhaps even increasing a bit. Dollar weakening and growing concern about trade deficit.

Things LOOK a little quiet at the moment, but it's only because Europe is waiting to see what the US reaction to Brazil is ( this will be their first look since Friday inasmuch as US markets were closed yesterday.

The key today id the bond market. With the Brazil situation and unease in the markets one would expect flight capital to be looking fo a home. If US bonds go up, it means there is no great concern about the dollar.

If bonds go DOWN, it means it is time to begin the dance.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:38
Donald (The time to think of gold as an earning asset rather than an idle investment has come) ID#26793:
http://www.webpage.com:80/hindu/daily/990118/06/06180005.htm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:33
Envy (Short) ID#219363:
I swore I wouldn't do this, but I'll be throwing some gambling money against the Internets. Loading up on cheap out of the money april contracts, way out of the money, but still more than I'd pay for these stocks. I think they'll rally back for a week or so, going for the touchdown.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:29
Donald (London morning currency news; don't miss the Brazil section) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990119/fk.html

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 06:21
jims (The Murphy Effect is ON!!!) ID#252391:
Dollar weakening, stocks down 1% in Europe, dollar weakening, gold and silver up a little. JSE ALL GOLD at 986.0 - buy signal for me on a close above 1000.0.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:49
esotericist (@Cage Rattler (love the handle !)) ID#224230:
Got it. And I get it so to speak.

In one respect, Soros owes the emerging economies and the financial world one, and to be the man who finally F%#&ed the dollar would look good on a CV !

On the subject of waking up...Silver is awake after flatlining for a day or so. Up a tad on the AEX site....

After a lull over Christmas / New Year, there's something of a 'pregnant pause' feel to the last few days. Portent of little gold ( en ) babies ?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:43
Cage Rattler (@esotericist - correct !) ID#33184:
Just relaying rumours I hear from forex traders/dealers, etc.
A rumour often involves just one side of a hedging strategy, for example, options related buying to protect a position. The other side of the transaction is often the big mover.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:34
esotericist (@Cage Rattler) ID#224230:
It was you who posted that first SOROS shorting dollar thang right - a couple days back ?

Are there any rumour sources for this stuff on the net ? Or elsewhere ?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:31
Cage Rattler (@esotericist ) ID#33184:
FWIW, also been rumours about Soros going long dollars vs yen. Often these so-called rumors are in fact the opposite of his true position.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:25
esotericist (An email from Paul Erdman author of The Setup and other financial thrillers.) ID#224230:
If Asia, Russia, Brazil, Clinton can't get gold over $300, I don't know
what will - except for a dollar crisis. Then it would take off big time.
Maybe George Soros is already working on it.

There was a post here a few days ago about a SOROS shorting the dollar rumour. Has anybody ( else ) heard this ?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:21
esotericist (Nick@C) ID#224230:
Loved your ( hopefully ) prophetic scenario of the first days the world woke up.

I exclude myself from your dig at the lurkers and bet-hedgers, being almost 100% in the stuff. With some Call options to boot.

Here's hoping !

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:18
sharefin (IDF targets 21 days the millennium bug could strike ) ID#284255:
http://www.jpost.com/com/Archive/17.Jan.1999/News/Article-9.html

So far, the IDF has spent millions of shekels and invested hundreds of years of people-hours working on the Y2K bug.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:04
Cage Rattler (Brazil) ID#33184:
Merrill Lynch warning that if rates fail to decline in Brazil quickly and sustainably, the floating portion of Brazils debt may become unmanageable.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 05:03
sharefin (Nick@C) ID#284255:
How much for a ticket.

I want to be on the ride of a lifetime.^o-o^


---
NTEOTWAWKI
What about an old chugger diesel with an alternator attached.
On the trawlers in the old days they always had an old thumper with an alternator attached.
These would drive the power requirements on these boats for many years.
I'm sure a hunt around old boat sheds would turn up one of these at a bargain price.

Who needs modern reliabilty vs something that has run for years and never missed a beat.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 04:25
aurator (a special kind of multiplier) ID#257148:
-
Of course, Ponzi lied:


Ponzi adopted from contemporaries the notion of sharing enormous
profits with investors, adding his own twist: trade in postal reply
coupons. This trick, the keystone of his swindle, was made more
plausible with tales he spun about how he received the brilliant
inspiration. On one occasion he said that in August of 1919, when he was
considering issuing an export magazine:

I wrote a man in Spain regarding the proposed magazine and
in reply received an international exchange coupon which I
was to exchange for American postage stamps with which
to send a copy of the publication. The coupon in Spain cost
the equivalent of about one cent in American money, I got
six cents in stamps for the coupon here. Then I investigated
the rates of exchange in other countries. I tried it in a small
way first. It worked. The first month $1,000 became
$15,000. I began letting in my friends. First I accepted
deposits on my note, payable in ninety days, for $150 for
each $100 received. Though promised in ninety days I have
been paying in forty-five days [N.Y. Times, Jul. 30, 1920, at
1, col. 7.].

Very interesting, that Ponzis are heading back into popular media attention. Usually only the cognoscenti know what Ponzi means.

Got International Exchange Coupons

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 04:16
THC (Jim & Envy re Internet & Silver) ID#367411:
Copyright © 1998 THC/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Internet:

Does anyone really know what will happen in this casino? James Dines, who has been right all the way up ( and me wrong ) is still pushing hard on the internet....1/2 of his annual forecast for 1999 is about how it's changing the world & how one still should be buying the smaller internet cos.....

I don't think now is the time to buy, so I won't......but I wouldn't be surprised to see Mr. Dines win again......on the other hand, I also would not be surprised for him to be dead wrong, remove the Internets from the rec list, and shift back into mining shares.......

Silver....

I guess the drop back towards $5 was to be expected....what will happen today or tomorrow I will not guess....but sooner or later perhaps it will go up again, yes?

Still in the black in my lucky call pick, Dec 99 silver $6.25....bought at 13c.....still at 19c.....I guess it's best to pay up and buy more time.....unless Mike is right and we get a big move before May.... in either case I would prefer to buy more calls and beef up the position rather than try to get out......

Good luck to all!

THC

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 04:12
Envy (History) ID#219363:
The history channel is running a show on the Ponzi scheme. They just said something about the 20's being a time when everyone was confident in the stock markets and people were speculating in anything trying to make money. Said that the rest of the world was in recession and that the dollar was very valuable. The Ponzi scheme, they said, was a legitimate scheme to take advantage of an increasingly valuable dollar overseas, currency arbitrage. Sound familiar ?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:58
Envy (@Jims) ID#219363:
Yep, all the Internet stocks are losers. I remember the last one of these, the last stock that took off because the net loved it, a little company by the name of Iomega ( IOM ) . They've got a beautiful crash chart too, though I'm sure it won't be as pretty as these end up being.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:54
Nick@C (Third class on the Titanic) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am constantly amazed when I read of long-time posters here who are 'in cash' or 'reducing my paper' or 'soon to buy precious'. I will buy precious when the time comes. Famous last words.

When the iceberg hits, it will be too late.

Imagine this scenario.

Day 1: Gold up $20.
I'm going to buy on the correction tomorrow!!!

Day 2: Gold up $35. Everything else down sharply.
Oh s***!! Definitely gonna buy on the correction tomorrow!!

Day 3: Gold up $50. World in turmoil.
$%&*!!!!! I'm a goldbug. I read Kitco every day!! I KNEW this was going to happen. Why don't I own any gold?

Day 4: Gold down $40. Paper rebounds.
Boy am I smart!!! Flash in the pan. Gold's gonna tank. Good thing I waited!!! Gonna buy MORE net shares today!!

Day 5: Gold up $75. Twenty five year old mutual fund managers trying to open windows on tall buildings. Yuppie dipsters maxing out on margin to buy shares.

And so the story unfolds. Most of the long committed goldbugs sold their gold/gold shares on the second morning. Jeeeez, I ONLY lost 20%!!! Broke even on ONE of my gold shares!!!

Things will happen so quickly that most investors, including 'goldbugs' will be frozen with indecision. Decide IN ADVANCE what you are going to do. HAVE YOUR POSITIONS IN PLACE. Decide when and under what conditions you will reduce your holdings.

Don't ride 'Third class on the Titanic.'

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:52
jims (Yahooooooo) ID#252391:
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=YHOO&d=3m

Checked out the Yahoo chart off Yahoo, itself.

Escoterocist and I are out at $368 - missed the high by 15%.

In six months we'll hear stories in the press about people that were urged to buy into the internet craze and paid way too much. Of course we are so smart ( at least I am ) I wouldn't pay 1/10 of Yahoo's current price when such was the ask.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:43
mozel (CAFR @Clinton) ID#153110:
Saw someone else posted the CAFR information. The uncoverer of these reports calculates 53% of the American equity market is government owned. He has also tracked down why the media is silent. Payola in the form of govermnment jobs with cushy expense accounts. Loans that never have to be paid. The scope of corruption is so vast it is beyond comprehension.

If Clinton is not impeached, it will be a Rubicon for this government.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:37
Envy (@THC) ID#219363:
Where ya been THC ? Haven't you heard, the Internet play is over, they're in the process of seeing a quick death. Here's a chart for Yahoo that I posted a few days ago, it's a crash chart if I've ever seen one.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:36
jims (THC) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I can see the take off of Silver being pushed out to May. Looked at a weekly continuation chart a while ago and it appears to me a basing is occurring but that another push down to $4.75 may very well be instore. That would give a three pointed bottom with slowing negative technicals - just the kind of bottom to set up a good move.

Likely we have to wait until the spring to get behind all this deflationary psychology, into the stock market correction after its shot at 10,000, and as worries of Y2K begin to be wipped up by a media finished with Clinton.

Could have made a little dough on those $4.75 May calls my friends standing advice on options led me to select as an example. They went from $2000 to $3750. Yes, but, who got in and got out.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:24
THC (Jim & Silver) ID#367411:
Hi Jim!

Bill has me fired up, but I am just sitting & waiting......I am not trying to buy & sell daily moves.....if I could do that I'd be getting rich quick on Internet plays!

Let's wait until at least May ( check Mike Sheller's posts ) .

Good luck!

THC

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:23
jims (JSE ALL GOLD - on the edge) ID#252391:
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^JGAI&d=3mm

JSE All Gold hanging right at the intersection of the 200 and 50 day moving averages. A move above 1000.0 from the current 972.0 would look pretty good for gold enthusiasts . . . stayed tuned...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:16
jims (OIl off 12 cents.. end of new year rally in the CRB) ID#252391:
Of course the rally ended more than a week ago; we have now gone beyond the point of healthy correction to that of worrisome decline.

Next New lows on the CRB?

Gold up 40 cents - silver the big UNCHed

Who said it earlier if silver goes to $4.90 its going to $4.50, if it doesn't go to $4.90 it never will....

THC - Murphy have you all reved up for a big silver move this week.? Hope he's right but I don't see it.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:10
Envy (@TheMissingLink) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tariffs could work. There'd no doubt be companies getting around it either through their structure or loop-holes in the tariff itself, but it would probably drive up the price on imports as designed. Of course, you're still running the risk that all tariffs create, risks that other countries will start putting counter-tariffs up on your stuff too, etc, that is happening around the world right now as trade barriers go back up to protect domestic economies. Who can say. Closing a market down to outsiders has it's disadvantages. If France were to suddenly put up a barrier to US made software to protect it's own software industry, it has good effects as well as bad for both the US and France. Hard to mess around with the fundamental nature of the thing and win. I think you're right, tariffs are probably the US's best bet as far as slowing multi-nationals is concerned, I can't think of anything better off the top of my head. If we had tariffs up on imports from Indonesia, that might keep multi-nationals from moving into Indonesia. Who knows though, might make them manufacture the stuff in Indonesia, send it to Australia for assembly, ship it to Brazil for packaging, and move it into the US via Mexico on tractor trailers *grin*.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 03:03
aurator (Good as Gold©) ID#257148:
Lefty
You may not have been paying attention. I have formally declared copyright in the phrase good as gold©. This phrase can only be used with my permission, it will cost you one bottle of Mac's Gold Lager.

Cold Gold.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:57
Auric (Star Wars Update) ID#257312:

US has big SDI related spy outfit in the UK, according to this BBC report from December '98 http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid%5F227000/227599.stm

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:40
esotericist (@lefty kiwi) ID#224230:
Thanks. Should I take a bow ?

: )

Seriously : I'm sincerely glad I was able to be of assistance. I must ( humbly ) observe you picked a pro for this specific line of problem solving !

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:32
Auric (Nick @ C) ID#257312:

Everything in my daily routine is working just fine. My $s are as good as Gold. There is NOTHING in my day to day real life that hints of trouble. Crazy as it seems, I believe this state of affairs is a fool's paradise. Having said that, I still have over 50% of my holdings in paper $s, LOL. Am continuing and accelerating the shift to stuff, which includes Gold.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:31
lefty kiwi (All kitcoites take a bow ............) ID#32176:
for being involved in a great site

Last night I requested some help from a fellow Kitcoite for a rather
disturbing problem .

Esotericist came up trumps with well thought out advise which helped immensely .

Kitcoites are as good as gold




Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:31
lefty kiwi (All kitcoites take a bow ............) ID#32176:
for being involved in a great site

Last night I requested some help from a fellow Kitcoite for a rather
disturbing problem .

Esotericist came up trumps with well thought out advise which helped immensely .

Kitcoites are as good as gold




Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:24
jims (PGM on Murphy) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Agree with some of your thoughts about the Cafe crowd around Murphy. His recommendation about Golden Star Resources hasn't been shinning. Now he recommends a Canadian silver stock at 29 cents.

All this noise he is planning on creating today because he got word that Goldman Sachs is turning bullish on gold and bearish on the dollar. - Probably a fake leak just to get damn fools to buy more gold right here and watch it fall. I'll bet with his 1000 press releases little attention will be given and gold will be up 20 cents in light trading.

For gold to rise bonds have to fall, the dollar has to fall, and for me to be more agressive I want to see the XAU rise when the stock market falls.

Of course gold could rise and the world's markets become considerably safer if some country with a currency problem were to buy gold with their dollars as suggested earlier by 24K and by myself concerning the Japanese when the yen was in the tank.

I expect, however, that the deflationist are still in charge in the CRB, metal, and energy arenas.

I will note that palladium is up to $319.50 again. Hey, when the supplies are really short you need a good recession to keep prices from going through the roof. Get you SWC on sale now at $27.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:11
TheMissingLink (Intellectual property) ID#371380:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The laws governing intellectual property and patents is quite a bit stronger in the U.S. than anywhere else. If Sony infringes on a Telebras invention and sells it in the U.S. market, the U.S. courts would not be available for litigation.

But if Sony infringes on a General Electric patent, you can be sure it will be litigated in U.S. federal court.

I dont see any more problem limiting a U.S. company's ability to manufacture from outside the country than the use of tariffs to protect domestic industry. Whats the difference? The law would be that goods manufactured outside the United States are subject to tariff regardless of whether it is a U.S. company doing the manufacturing.

As to your problem retaining good jobs in your area I say screw 'em. The Chicago Bears are talking about moving if the city of Chicago and state of Illinois don't pony up $275 million for a new stadium. Let them go. They underestimate the value of being in Chicago. We would get another franchise happy to be in our market. If you have a good supply of hard working people, dont sell yourself short. If you do not have these things, then you are voluntarily becoming enslaved. The hidden infrastructure costs that you will bear will bleed you dry.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:06
jims (24K - Right on the money in your thought and suggestion...) ID#252391:
that these countries trying to support their currency ought to be buying gold. They could also sell gold backed bonds perhaps getting $400 for every oz. they agree to deliver against the bond in 10 years. With that $400 they could buy more gold..... or repay dollar debt.

I don't pretend to be an international economist but at some point I think a country is going to follow the suggestion you made a few minutes ago and buy gold with their reserves, and turn the market on a dime - copperclad dime at that.....

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 02:00
Nick@C (My missus called me 'Noah' yesterday.) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I replied, How long can you tread water? It sure helps to have a supportive family when doing your 'Noah' routine. My fervent desire is that the ark will not be necessary. However, when/if it starts raining very heavily I am going to shoot up the esteem scale. Right now I am on the flaky end of the scale. What is so bad about being able to do without the rest of the world for a few weeks Well, forty days and forty nights anyway.

Am being very selective about the critters loaded into the ark. Kangaroos, kookaburras, koalas, emus, eagles and kiwis are welcome. All others only in cans.

How long can YOU tread water

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:57
Envy (@TheMissingLink) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I can understand the frustration with the football teams, btw. That is extremely similar to the situation my town deals with in trying to attract businesses to the area. If we don't, that's fewer jobs for our people. If we do, we have to be careful not to give away the farm. We offer them tax breaks, land, whatever it takes sometimes to get them to come to the area, it is amazing how powerful corporations can be, how much power they have to leverage. But will regulation help that ? I'm not so sure. Even if every town, city, and state in the United States got together and said that they weren't going to offer tax breaks to companies that wanted to locate in their tax district, there's always Panama, or Iceland, or Russia, or ... it's a difficult thing to sort out. We have a new distribution center for a big company in our area now, it's providing a lot of jobs with good pay, that's hard to stare down when you're sitting at the negotiating table, that tax revenue is a big help to our dreams of a new parking garage.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:53
kiwi (LTCM derivative addicts looking for a new high....) ID#206358:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/MON/FIN/itcm.html

Figure this one out, why is both W. Buffet ( known holder of several hundred millions of ounces of silver ) and Prince ....of Saudi Arabia ( known large gold holder ) interested in LTCM's postion's?

i ) they are looking to buyout the competition...i.e. a large shorting operation. To the victor the spoils and all that....

ii ) LTCM hold controlling interests of large PM postions....perhaps LTCM went long gold expecting a pop due to stock dive back in August....AG and RR foiled their plans ( mine too! ) and took them to the cleaners via Goldman Sachs mighty gold shorting steamroller ( US taxpayers stabilisation slush funds of course ) ....This would explain why AG,RR were so involved and got Goldman to take over knowing full well gold will rise in good time....i.e. when the maximum number of little people have been fleeced.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:50
Envy (@TheMissingLink) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I don't know how many have jumped ship, some may not have ever been on the ship in the first place. Many have just restructured themselves to make most efficient use of the world. An example would be a financial shop that exists in France that purchases a bank in South Korea. That company was never a US company, but just like any other company it can structure itself so that it can make an offering on the Nasdaq exchange. Another good example is Sony, not a US company though it has huge numbers of offices, owns property, and has customers in the United States. If Sony decides to close one of it's offices in the US and move it to Brazil, do we have the right to try to stop them ? If we don't, why do we have the right to stop Nike from moving it's manufacturing to Asia ? Is Nike any more a US company than Sony is ? Nike may have started out in the US, but it's owned by people all over the world, just as Sony is. These multi-national companies have become sovereign entities. As for how many US companies might jump ship in the future, I didn't bring this up as a topic of discussion for purely academic reasons. The more the US regulates, the more attractive the rest of the world becomes.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:49
24K (esotericist (Brazil Nuts )) ID#81124:
Copyright © 1998 24K/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From the article you quoted:
Brazil spent about $30 billion to keep the real in its trading bands since September, when Russia's devaluation spread turmoil through the world. It is believed to have about $40 billion left, including $9 billion in international loans.

If Brazil spent the $30 billion on gold then they would still have $30 billion worth of reserves, wouldn't they? Except that now the reserves would be in gold and not $US. Taking delivery of 3225 tonnes of gold would make the price of gold rise and therefore the value of their reserves would rise accordingly. Where else can you spend money to buy something; and thereby increase the value of what you bought; AND create a currency backed by gold ( which would make people less likely to sell your currency and therefore stop its devaluation ) ? How could they lose?

I suggested this scenario to Gordon Theissen ( governor of the Bank Of Canada ) last spring when we were using reserves to prop up our dollar. He didn't agree that the low value of the Canadian had any relationship to the fact that the government was selling off all of our gold. He therefore didn't agree that we should buy gold to support our currency.

The present system, I guess, was working fine. Spend a couple of billion in reserves and our dollar still slides 10 cents. We could have doubled our gold holdings for the same amount. Even if the dollar still slid, we would have the gold. Have our cake and eat it too.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:36
PCM (aurator: CORRECT) ID#169332:
LA PLUS ÇA CHANGE....

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:23
tolerant1 (Envy, TheMissingLink, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:
http://www.intellectualcapital.com/bibliotech/rev-011499.asp

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:23
TheMissingLink (Envy) ID#371380:
But how many multinational U.S. based corporations can you name that have jumped ship? The trend for pro football teams to change cities is more disturbing than the General Motors, Nike's, or Arthur Andersens that have moved to a more favorable corporate climate. Hell, these people run our country. It is often stated that these large corporations pay no taxes. And cities around the country are fighting to give them free land or power or in the case of the olympic committee, sex.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:10
aurator (Politically inçorréçÝ) ID#257148:
PÇA
Can you do dis...la plus 'ça' change?

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 01:00
Auric (aurator) ID#257312:

Will say this bubble bursting idea sounds a bit nutty to me at times. Events have a way of getting out of hand and taking on a life of their own, however. Mate, I beleve we are in a South Sea mania right now. Do we go to 10k on the Dow before it tanks? Stay tuned to this station and find out: )

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:59
tolerant1 (How does one measure the impact of this...the fragmented families..each number a life...) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Japan Suicide Rate Soars Amid Economic Gloom
10:21 a.m. ET ( 1522 GMT ) January 18, 1999

TOKYO — A rising number of Japanese are killing themselves by jumping in front of trains, alarming officials who fear it is but one grim aspect of a soaring overall suicide rate linked to economic woes.

And with company financial results out soon, things could even get worse. There are broad predictions that company books will be swathed in red when they close for the fiscal year-end in March, observers said on Monday.

We are going to see a very critical situation then, with more business failures emerging,'' said Yuichi Yamada, a professor at Tokyo's Meiji University.

In fact, this April is likely to be a real crisis.''

The number of suicides on railway lines run by East Japan Railways Company rose to 77 for the 1997 fiscal year, ended last March, but the number shot to 78 for the first nine months of fiscal 1998 alone, an official said.

Although railroad officials declined to speculate on reasons for the increase, analysts put a lot of the blame on Japan's deteriorating economic situation, which saw the country tumble into its worst recession since World War Two.

The gloom has spread. Around 22,100 Japanese killed themselves in just the first eight months of calendar 1998, compared with 23,500 for all of 1997, which was the highest rate in 10 years.

Suicide has even gone on-line. Last Christmas, police uncovered an Internet suicide service that led to at least one death when a Tokyo woman killed herself using cyanide capsules apparently ordered from a Japanese-language website.

appeared on http://www.foxnews.com under the WIRES heading at the top...

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:58
Envy (@TheMissingLink) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I see what you're saying, but I still think that view is more US-centric than the perspective of the multi-national companies. To think about it in a different way, pretend that you just met up with some amazing business people from overseas, you are the only US citizen. You meet some other folks, say maybe an investment guy from France, a great marketing person from Japan, a good international finance lady from Nepal, etc, etc, altogether there are 30 of you. You've gotten together and fleshed out plans for a product you know will sell and you all start making decisions about the board of directors, where you'll get money, this, that, and the other, all the normal things business folks do. That isn't far off from the way a multi-national company is structured, powerful people from all corners of the world. Now, when you start making decisions about where you want to incorporate your company, these people do NOT assume that the US is the best place to do it, they're going to want to incorporate in the most friendly place to incorporate, they want to be based out of a country that isn't going to charge them taxes on their income, etc. After that, it might be a good idea to incorporate additional entities in the countries you wish to do business in, but that's not an assumption you can make. Another decision, which countries laws will you use to handle disputes with other companies and individuals, that's not an assumption you can make either. Contracts have clauses in them that say specifically what countries laws will be used to settle differences. Now you're going to make a decision about how and where you're going to do research and development on your product, will it be Silicon valley, or downtown Tokyo, everyone on your board has an opinion, you can't assume it'll be the US. Where will you manufacture the product when you're finished, will it be in Detroit or will it be in Singapore ? You're CFO likes the numbers on the labor rates in Singapore, and she hates the numbers for Detroit, too much overhead. The board wants to do a bond offering to cover some cashflow issues, it'll be backed by property they own in Germany, will the bond offering be made on the German exchange in Marks ? Or will it be made on the Nikkei in Yen ? That's what I'm getting at, the US can't just lay down the law on the these companies, because these are no longer US companies, they're global. The citizens of the US might like to think they're the center of the Universe, but belief often diviates from reality. Why are US laws better for a company than, say, the laws in Belize ? If you incorporate a company in the US you're going to pay 15 percent and higher on income, if you incorporate your company in Belize you pay absolutely nothing, quite a bit of savings there. We can't assume an multi-national is going to want to bank in New York, you'd have a tough time selling that to the folks on your board when the US is talking about having bankers report suspicious transactions, Switzerland doesn't do that.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:56
PCM (Gold manipulation (Murphy)) ID#169332:
Copyright © 1998 PCM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The quotes below are from SI Gold Monitor. They relate to the Bill Murphy/Metropole stuff posted and re--posted the past two days on Kitco. I've never cared much for Metropole stuff or their share recommendations. Too precious ( artificially clever ) for me in attitude and style. Makes me feel like I'm being sold something special. The issue is serious, however. I don't see it's a conspiracy. There are interests involved, and they use their influence. This can include market manipulation. Plus ca change...same old same old.

----PCM
From: Bill Murphy

Monday, Jan 18 1999 8:52PM ET


Ron,
You are very right on. My guess is more than what you think. That is why Goldman may be changing their tune. A gradual up in gold from now on is what they should want. You can be sure Goldman has the word from Her Rubin. They are very bright people that also happen to be the casino ( easier to win that way when you are the house and make the rules ) I would prefer a gradual move too. A big move is not that good for me. Need time to build the congregation. A big move,too fast,if you will pardon the expression would be like having sex too quickly. Still, it is time NOW to move up and up with consistency. I still see gold at $405
by year end and silver at $9.78
Bill


To: Richard Harmon ( 26415 )
From: Bill Murphy

Monday, Jan 18 1999 3:44PM ET

Hello Richard,
I went through the proper netiquette on this, and am putting this up because I am going to do what I can to run for daylight for us gold and silver family people. This press release will go out to 600,000 analysts, 500 on-line services and the mainstream press at 5 AM tomorrow. If I
am given a chance, I am going to do whatever I can to raise the heat level for the gold shorts. We in the gold industry have paid the price too long to support the junkie habits of hedge funds and fears of our offialdom. It is time to point out what is going one and rage like lions about how the big boys have been playing with the gold market. The time to strike is NOW.
Today-AP- Tokyo-Miyazawa-The dollar's one-currency dominance is over. This can only be construed constructively for gold and might finally put some wind at our back. The second piece is from Le Metropole member, who is very highly regarded in the financial community. His commentary is right on.
The bugler is sounding attack,
Bill

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:53
aurator (Coining it™) ID#257148:
Calling all Kitcopreneurs

Now, if you want to make a tonne {that's metric] of dough realllllllly quickly, I suggest you prepare an IPO for a co that is selling Y2K survival stuff {or KY jelly} over the internet by multi-level marketing.

aur@tor_dispenser_of_dyspepsis_to_the_disposessed_dippie_KYJellers™

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:53
Cage Rattler () ID#33184:
Speculation circulating in Sydney that a major investment bank is due to release bearish report on Brazil. This could be bad news for commodities if true, thus bad for AUD Kiwi and the loonie.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:40
tolerant1 (ah,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha...O me, O my...on the floor laughing...) ID#20359:
http://www.foxmarketwire.com/wires/0119/f_ap_0119_2.sml

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:36
tolerant1 (ahem...this is rich...yup...uh huh...this must be for the Investment 101 National Course...) ID#20359:
http://www.foxmarketwire.com/wires/0119/f_ap_0119_4.sml

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:35
aurator (Speculating about pricks.....[on TV, you can prick your finger, but you can't finger your prick]) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Auric™
The Prick that bursts this bubble [and it •will• be a prick] may be something as innocuous as the declaration by a spotty 16 year old youth that he has developed a free operating system that will run on all computers, that will safely de-install the Dreadful Winoze O/S, that arrives complete with a scheduler, and a Wordprocessor that does everything 98.5% of humanity needs from a computer.
And all he wants is a new guitar and a record contract.

In other words, like the legendary Taxi driver who caused the Kuwaiti Stock Market Crash on August 20 1982 by demanding payment on a post-dated cheque. POP!
Many stocks lost 98% then 100% of their value.
Now, who will re-rate Amazon? If it loses 98% of its share price, it still has an infinite PE, having NEVER MADE ANY FLAMING MONEY.


Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:23
Auric (Today, The Bubble Bursts) ID#257312:
Copyright © 1998 Auric/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Well, it could. Today seems as good a day as any: ) . As best I can tell, most here at Kitco believe we are in a financial bubble, and that it is very over inflated. The only questions are-- 1. When will it pop, and 2. What will be the prick that pops it. Overvalued internet stocks, for example, could royally roger this market if they collapse. Also, it is not clear to me at all that Brazil has solved its debt and Real problems. If Japan, China, and Britain are buying Euros and selling $s, and that became common knowledge, then that would snap the invincibility of the $ in the minds of investors. Let the facts be known, and the chips fall.

Date: Tue Jan 19 1999 00:20
aurator (Been there. Done that. Bought the T-shirt. Been to the Doctor.) ID#257148:
-
gagnrad
for more on links Ponzi schemes go here
http://www.infind.com/infind/infind.exe?query=Ponzi&time=7&x=32&y=7

Clearest description:
http://www.usinternet.com/users/mcknutson/pscheme.htm


Remember, too thatChurning has nothing to do with making butter, Front-loading has nothing to do with large Bulldozers and brokers have only to think of their bonuses, not your portfolios.







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