KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:42
ERLE (Kitco is sick. It was fixed not long ago.) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TheMissingLink.
Steve,
I do trust J. Disney, as I have been going through some of the posts of a year ago.
The downward trend for this dog ( RANGY ) continues, but, ( and that's a mighty big butt that's a'fore me ) , says that this turd might turn around.
We dopes that bought into this hype on the Vronsky-channel might be made whole, if the mines come through on schedule. I haven't heard any info that says that they will not make projected grade, or costs.
I do have a problem with the opacity of the SA companies.
I got screwed on Western Deep Levels when they went into Anglogold. They are the major profit center in the area, yet, they were valued below some of the high cost producers.
Let's face it, the SA mine controllers are as insular group as you'll ever see in investing.
If their financial numbers are correct, we might do ok on this bit of investment education.
On jewelry matters, I am looking for a source of low cost, high grade oddball stones. For instance, I'd like to find a supplier of cut and clear cinnibar for a necklace. I know about the minimal hardness ( 2.0-2.5 ) , but am willing to do it if the stones are superior.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:33
STUDIO.R (@da' long lost uncivilized tribe..........) ID#119358:
the commancheros de rangitOs.......arriba! hell, if you can't sue your compadres...just who can you sue? oh lord, the trouble I've seen......... ( gulp )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:23
Hunter500 (Minas Gerais - The beat goes on....) ID#40477:
Copyright © 1998 Hunter500/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From: The Day the Bubble Burst - A social History of the Wall Street Crash
The stock market break had no effect on the $I6,500,000 bond issue the National City Company had recently launched on behalf of Minas Gerais, one of the states in the Republic of Brazil. The issue was small by Company standards, but the profit potential was enticing.
Until Mitchell moved in, Minas Gerais had been supported by French banks. They had been thankful to get out. French bond-holders had to bring a suit against Minas Gerais before obtaining payment in gold under the terms of their loans.
The National City had no illusion about the situation in Brazil. For an investor, the risks were appalling. A confidential Company report stated 'it would be hard to find anywhere a sadder confession of inefficiency and ineptitude than that displayed by the various state officials of Minas Cerais in respect of long-term borrowing'.
But, in the brochure which Mitchell authorised for the Minas Gerais bond issue, there was no mention of ineptitude or inefficiency. In the fine, flowery language he liked to see in his prospectuses, the venality of corrupt officials in a destitute South American province'took on a new meaning. The brochures contained the fine declaration: 'Prudent and careful administration of the State's finances has been axiomatic with successive administrations in Minas Gerais. Later,'axiomatic' was changed to 'characteristic'.
The bond issue was one of the big successes of the past winter. So much so that Kuhn, Loeb and Company, recognising the potential plush pickings, tried to become bankers for the Brazilian province.
They should have known better than to tangle with Charles Mitchell. In a short, sharp exchange, he saw them off with a warning not to attempt to 'chisel in'; he sounded like Al Capone driving a rival gang from his patch.
Yet, if Mitchell saw no possibility of the Minas Gerais bond issue being adversely affected by the day's market break, he could not be so optimistic of a stock in which he took a special personal interest, Anaconda Copper.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:21
STUDIO.R (@eldO@the cue...............) ID#119358:
based on your implication, er insinuation...ol'studio has popped da' cork on a slim flasque d' Santa Teresa 1796 Ron Antiguo de Solera......in your honor.. ( gulp ) .....ron ( rum ) de los Dios.....ohmy.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:16
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
Mole -- I think you would find it to be a 'telling' book!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:16
JTF (The Internet survival post y2k) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TheMissingLink: You miss the point. You are correct that I will gain nothing if I am the only one that can post on the net. Who says I'm wealthy anyway? Guess who fixes the antique Blazer that gets me to work in the ice storms?

We must all think of a solution -- each of us in our own way. I'm sure you can come up with something -- how about a trial satellite subscription beginning Nov 1999? I would guess that if we are all lucky we would need such an expensive linkup for only a few months until the dust settles. If not, it will be back to radios for all of us. I can dust off my antique Hammarlund I got for nothing 20 years ago, but I don't know morse code, and I don't have a SW transmitter!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:11
Mole () ID#34883:
Eldorado: that author is cut & pasted in my to read file. these days though Im more apt to read a Hayek text with a 12 pack ( low tech drinker ) .

Cherokee: good Orlin Grabbe post, one of his better, methinks.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:10
ERLE (JTF, I thought that you were gone for the eve) ID#190411:
I was thinking of taking the skins off of some 707's and DC8's and rolling them up with leisure suits from the thrift shops. We could soak them with a decent amount of PCB's, but I don't think that that's neccesary. After all, the typical polyester suit has the highest known di-electric properties known. As proof, just wait for some old fart to gladhand you on carpet. Nicolla Tesla didn't have this technology.
G'night Mr. Wizard.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:05
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
D.A. -- Then we shall both be better off than before we started, no? Perhaps. But I have found more and more during my years that it is extremely rare That once an opinion is formed, that it will be changed by any amount of discussion or harangue. Quite noisome, really. But let the discussion resume. Just perhaps we will all might learn something. But does it really have to be in lawyereese? ( sp ) That's what turns so many people off! That's why lawyer jokes have come to the fore. That's what you all, as lawyers, should be fixing!!! Is there a particular problem in doing so? Or should we ALL start over? Regards.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:02
STUDIO.R (@snOwball.......the eagle flies on friday..............) ID#119358:
and saturday I play........sunday I go to church...and on my knees I pray.....lord....please, let gOld go up.......yes, yes. aaawwwwwwllllllll!!! good god almighty!!!!!

bobby ain't got no use for urls no more....

salud!!! G&P....snOwball.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 23:02
TheMissingLink (JTF) ID#371380:
What is the point of you having internet access via failsafe methods if 99% of the rest of us cannot access it? Who will be updating their content? Who will you chat with on Kitco? The internet is a meeting place. If you are the only one on the internet, how good is that?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:56
Rumpled (Argentina Gold) ID#411251:
http://www.canoe.ca/FPNP/jan8_argentina.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:53
TheMissingLink (ERLE) ID#371380:
Regarding RANGY and the Kitco cheerleaders, ever heard the term pump n' dump?

Rah rah S. African juniors! Hah!

Funny how the cheerleaders know who I am talking about even though I don't use their names. Watch them respond. Jerks.

Steve

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:52
JTF (I like your approach! couldn't resist one last post!) ID#254321:
ERLE: How do you get those Squall lines to line up right where you put all those grain silos, so that they let loose in the right place? And -- what do I use for a dielectric? Or -- are you thinking we should use the grain silos as Paul Bunyan - grade ( bigger than Texas - grade ) - industrial - grade Lyden jars?

If so -- how do I dare get close enough to siphon off a few megavolts for my little long wave radio? Twenty paces?

Sounds a little rich for my taste -- even B. Franklin or N. Tesla would have been wise enough to stay away from such a contraption -- IHMO!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:51
BigFisherman (Prospector, Mooney) ID#258273:
Prospector, Thanks for the link.

Mooney, Sorry for the confusion.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:49
STUDIO.R (@ERLE.O.........re:chess bros.) ID#119358:
Copyright © 1998 STUDIO.R/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
studio7 forwards most all the record orders to my oil office....my wife, Lini, normally does all the shipping, billing, etc....she's just down the hall from me ( keepin' a real close eye on ol' studio! ) ....anyhoooo.

e.mail me your needs, I'll have lini handle it pronto...it will be my great pleasure! when the 7 forwards your original order....I'll make sure it's not redundant.

studior@ionet.net

hey! just how big on these ol' chess acts are ya? I got in a publishin' deal on most of their material with a bud down in nashville Don Goodman..let me know....I might just surprise ya' a wee bit.....

salud!!!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:49
panda (D.A.) ID#50148:
Thanks for the reply given the 'speedy' nature of this site.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:48
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mole -- Ever read a Sci-Fi book by James P. Hogan with the title 'Voyage from Yesteryear'? Quite interesting! Wouldn't mind being there myself. A very nice blend of a pseudo commune ( ? ) ( not commie really ) system and individual sovereignty but with hi-tech making a difference. ( nut-cases seem to wander off into the nether regions as they can't stand the individuality of it all. ) .
Basically, according to what was written in there, it is basically a free-for-all, western style, buckle up the shooter on your hip, and everybody learns what NOT to do, and what TO do for anybody else. ( We are also talkin' within a VERY hi-tech society of engineers and all other walks of life! ) Definitely a 'I am my brothers keeper/I can help you out with that project/it doesn't matter how long it takes but it comes out damnably fine'/etc/etc.... You'd have to read it, but there is a whole lot of real-ness in the book. That would be about the ultimate in freedom and responsibility AND so-called commune ( ? ) that I can so far see. Purty nice in my mind.
But, times here being as they are, and jack-boots running rampant ( They shoot those types ) , the more perfect type of world is not yet on the scene, nor will it be until some very major house-cleaning and general changes should ever be accomplished.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:48
Rumpled (OIL PATCH NEWS.) ID#411251:
http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/ye_oilpatch.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:39
JTF (One last thought about the 'Awakening' -- the Internet, that is!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: We are all a little piece of a new form of human, massively parallel intelligence -- the Internet itself! It is up to all of us to come up with ideas -- for each of us -- at our own homes and workplaces -- to make sure that the Internet does not wither on the vine, come y2k.

I know it is possible, as the Internet is not as fragile as it looks! Its collective IQ probably reaches into the hundreds of thousands, or perhaps into the millions!

And I thought I wanted to reach the stars! We have a newly born superintelligence right here on this earth -- right in front of each of us -- right in our PC's! The stars can wait until after y2k.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:38
ERLE (JTF, what you need for Y2K communications) ID#190411:
is a do it youself Extra Low Frequency trasceiver built from plans on cherokee's wolf website. Aside from the baseline antenna, which ideally is about twenty miles long, the power requirements could easily be met if you turned unused Harvestore grain silos into capacitor banks which can be recharged in your typical violent squall line.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:37
D.A. (naptime) ID#7568:
Tol1:

Thanks for taking the time to play the game. I am off to count great herds of woolies. I look forward to reading your stuff. Sleep well.

And to all a good night.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:34
Mooney* (@ALL and @Spock @Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:29, Big Fisherman and Gagnrad) ID#350194:
Copyright © 1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ALL - Please take note - Spock your post at: Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:29
Spock ( Bigfisherman... ) implies that I said words, that, in fact, I never did. Here is the pertinant part of your post, ...I think you may be a bit confused. I cut and paste something from Mooney which said clear the idiots out of this sight. But those were his words, not mine....
You, Spock, are the one who is confused. Those were NOT my words, but came from the viscious post of gogold ( the latest reincarnation of the infamous Hepcat ) .
Gagnrad and Big Fisherman - I read your wise words also, but SOMETIMES you just have to set the record straight. ( Of course in doing so you encourage the perpetrator ( in this case gogold ) to bring forth even more bile and lies - so is it best, then, to remain silent and let the lies become truths?. )

AAR - Goodnight All! ( and Glenn wherever you might be. )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:29
D.A. (moot.point) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Eldo:

There is no doubt that 100 senators will make the decision. There is also no doubt that players far larger than ourselves will move the gold market. Should we stop talking about gold because it is beyond our control?

P.S. I'm not very 'hyped up' about this, I'm in a rather relaxed mood. Its just that I haven't had a good running debate here at Kitco for a while so I thought I'd give it a wing. Who knows, maybe both T1 and myself will both learn something from this little tete a tete. Then we shall both be better off than before we started, no?




Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:25
Donald (Bre-X news) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990108/be2.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:23
JTF (Signing off -- a few words about y2k communications, internet access) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: A comment, then a question. I learned a few days ago that AT&T has admitted that they will not be y2k compliant. Apparently insurance companies and financial companies have been aware for some time due to regulatory compliance requirments. But -- telecommunications and energy companies had fewer rules to comply with.

Now, ATT and all the little Bells have solid state switching stations, having replaced virtually all the mechanical stepping relays. Also these companies -- especially ATT -- have been cutting staff like crazy!

So -- what happens to the phones if ATT fails to do their job by y2k? All the phone systems go down. And probably the beepers, and cellular phones.

Right now I have asked my colleagues at work -- one used to work at ATT -- to find out whether the beepers and cellular phones are so interlinked with these switching stations that they will go if ATT goes the way of the DODO on y2k. And -- of course -- there is the small matter of internet access if ATT and clones go down. Of course, if Sprint or MCI could bypass ATT, and promise y2k service, imagine how much business they would get, virtually overnight!

HERE IS MY QUESTION TO ALL:

If you knew the phone systems would go down, but wanted continuous access to information, what would you do beside order a AM/FM/SW solar radio? How about cable modems, or satellite modems? Is there anything out there that promises y2k compliance all the way from the house to some key y2k compliant T3 or Tx internet node?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:22
cherokee () ID#288231:

jorlin....

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/endofnwo.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:21
Snowball (Thanks to all for the tips.) ID#290213:
This is the only site I have a problem with posting URLs. They just won't turn blue for me. Tomorrow it's to the store for more Tidy Bowl.
Hey, Studio, wasn't that an old Bobby Blue Bland song? I got them no blue URL blues.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:21
JTF (Signing off -- a few words about y2k communications, internet access) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: A comment, then a question. I learned a few days ago that AT&T has admitted that they will not be y2k compliant. Apparently insurance companies and financial companies have been aware for some time due to regulatory compliance requirments. But -- telecommunications and energy companies had fewer rules to comply with.
Now, ATT and all the little Bells have solid state switching stations, having replaced virtually all the mechanical stepping relays. Also these companies -- especially ATT -- have been cutting staff like crazy!
So -- what happens to the phones if ATT fails to do their job by y2k? All the phone systems go down. And probably the beepers, and cellular phones.
Right now I have asked my colleagues at work -- one used to work at ATT -- to find out whether the beepers and cellular phones are so interlinked with these switching stations that they will go if ATT goes the way of the DODO on y2k. And -- of course -- there is the small matter of internet access if ATT and clones go down. Of course, if Sprint or MCI could bypass ATT, and promise y2k service, imagine how much business they would get, virtually overnight!

HERE IS MY QUESTION TO ALL:

If you knew the phone systems would go down, but wanted continuous access to information, what would you do beside order a AM/FM/SW solar radio? How about cable modems, or satellite modems? Is there anything out there that promises y2k compliance all the way from the house to some key T3 or Tx internet node?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:19
Jack (JTF @ Euro gold Holding_......) ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

When they talk of reserves at 30% gold, I believe that they mean the total percentage of the Euro Member Nation's gold as relating to foreign currency reserves, or potential backing for foreign trading.
The US has 0% gold as part of their foreign reserves, as Nixon closed the gold window in the early seventies. As too much gold was leaving Fort Knox. ( ( For all we know maybe it has all left. ) )
Assuming it did not, then the percentages of gold backing M1 currency for either the US or Europeans is minescule.
I must say that the table of the various nations gold holdings was informative though.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:19
ERLE (@STUDIO.R) ID#190411:
-
That RANGY is a trying little ( BIG ) problemo. I got annoyed about it again a couple of nights ago and posted some spleen.
John Disney told me to dry my eyes and kwitabitchin. The cheerleaders assured me the we soon will be in lunatic orbit. I see that it traded 2000 shares today.
I sent your STUDIO a query on the muzak that you peddle. I was especially interested in that 88'er from 2120 South Michigan Avenue.
One of the best things about Chuck Berry was the piano player.
I also have some Okie silver for your wink museum/South Central US.
So, tell your peoples to reply to my e-mail request to order.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:16
Mole (Some ideological reflections.) ID#34883:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/archives/guest_column/kelly/kelly01-06-99.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:11
tolerant1 (D.A. Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...and STUDIO ain't stopped recordin R...no, I am) ID#20359:
not at all mad...I shall labor over the transcripts and get back to ya...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:09
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
Studio -- No problemo at my end. Good to see you in better spirits. Speakin' of spirits, time for a brewski...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:07
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
D.A. -- It really becomes a mute point as there is NO ONE in the country outside of the Senate that will be making the decision, except for the polls of course. We really are a 'democrazy' you now; Rule by the poll/whim of the day...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:02
STUDIO.R (@EldO........all is swell.........y usted?) ID#119358:
Oil up a couple'o'buckaroooos..that sho' helps dis ol' okie.

Very good muzac projects ( IMVHO ) underway at both studios....may take us to the next level... ( fingers crossed ) .....

Got congas, bongos, cabasas, chimes, etc. for Christmas!!! babaloooooooooou!!! cooooOOOOLLLL.

still sockin' awaaaaaaaaay the shiny yellow stuff...rangitO is drivin' me nutz...but... what the hey...Babe?

hope your swell toooooooooO.......studio.rickyricardO


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 22:00
JTF (US_Debt/DOW graph from 1900 or so to present) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Bill Buckler: Kudos to you with your graph of ( official ) US debt vs DOW stock market valuations. What is especially interesting is that there are two approx thirty year periods where the DOW grew much more rapidly than the US debt -- both times having relatively little inflation.

One could argue that our current period could last 30 years as well before the DOW fizzles, and our debt explodes again. However, I doubt it. We don't have the savings reserves that we once had, and our unofficial entitlement debt and corporate debt add at least 40 trillion to the total.

We may still be doing relatively better than Germany and France, who now seem to think they can loosen their belts, and ignore their entitlement + employment problems.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:59
D.A. (genetic.disposition.to.lawyering) ID#7568:
Tol1:

If this is pissing you off let me know and I will cease. I am the offspring of a long line of lawyers, so there is much litigiousness in my genetic makeup. For this I apologize.

In the first response to my query, two of the items related to perjury in front of the grand jury. All I am asking is that you read the grand jury transcript and find the questions and answers that support the perjury charges as alleged. All the other stuff is fluff.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:59
ERLE (snowball) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have Netscape, so this is what I do:
Right button wipe the thing, so that it's all blue.
Go to edit on the top of page, and click.
Hit copy.
Go back to Kitco post page.
Do your thing with the text that you type in.
Hit the right mouse button, and click paste where you want the URL.
On kitco, click the preview button below the text window to see if the URL is highlighted. If it is, you probably have one that will work. If it is black as the regular text appears, it likely will not work. You should hit your posted URL on the preview screen to see whether it flops you into the place that you will direct us.
If all is ok, You post.
BUT, if you post from the preview screen, it will be double-spaced.
If you don't want the doublespace, hit back button on browser, and click the post comment directly to group button.
I am sorry to be so pedantic, but, it took me a while to ask the same question, and the good souls here helped me.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:57
lazarus (Echo Bay Mines) ID#263211:

Any opinions on the prospects for Echo Bay Mines?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:57
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
JTF -- inability to discern might also be read as 'care to discern', or 'more profitable to NOT discern'. HAR!!! Slaves be them all!!!!!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:56
Speed (cut & paste) ID#29048:
some days nothing works the way it's supposed to.

http://www.the-privateer.com ( typed )

http://www.the-privateer.com/gold.html ( cut & paste )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:54
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
JTF -- I think we'll find that the 'rules' will be dictated by so-called polls; the presidents ( et all ) guile, and the publics general inability to discern the difference between what is right and wrong.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:54
Mooney* (@Snowball) ID#350194:
Copyright © 1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I believe that it is as easy as merely printing the URL and then it comes up in blue ( or whatever ) automatically for anyone to click on. For instance for a period of about two tears I used to post my e-mail address for anyone to contact me. In taht way I made many friends and had many interesting conversations with fellow Kitcoites. And do you know what? The only persons afraid to e-mail someone else are the Hepcat types who would never mail myself or others and speak man to man, and yet he continually would critize and attack myself and others here, behind the security of his computer screen. I always have this picture of a grown man sitting at his keyboard, typing forth his spew, while sucking on a great big pacifier.
BTW - My e-mail is: moonstep@idirect.com

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:49
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
Snowball - either type it in or paste it in as it would need to appear to get there.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:48
Speed (Snowball ) ID#29048:
http://www.the-privateer.com/gold.html>http://www.the-privateer.com/gold.html

Include the http:// with the rest and it will be an effective link.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:47
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
Studio -- Hell, Salud to YOU, for bringing the the speech to our attention.

How have things been going with you?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:45
JTF (Clinton -- trial in the Senate) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
DA,Tolerant1, All: I think we do not need to worry about fine legal points about whether WJC lied under oath or not, for two reasons. First, the Senate can use just about any protocol they want with regard to guilt or innocence -- as I understand it, there are no rules of action on this matter. Secondly, the real issues at hand are not the impeachment charges, but matters that are much more serious that both the Senate and House do not really want to discuss. I am almost positive that they know far more than we do -- how else could the House have galvanized itself into action -- it was amazing! For example, one Senator ( to my surprise ) actually mentioned in the last few days that there was the matter of witness intimidation by WJC's secret police. That is a much more serious matter than perjury, although it is not the treasonous act of accepting campaign contributions from a foreign power, giving a top security clearance to a non-us citizen without FBI review ( John Huang ) , and assigning a CIA agent to him to release top secret communications information.

There is alot more going on within the Senate than they will openly discuss. Right now, I am proud of our House and Senate -- they are showing alot more American spirit in doing the right thing without fearing the opinion polls. That is something that WJC will never understand -- like Bob Livingston resigning for the good of the country.

A good barometer of how WJC is doing these days is to see how many bruises he has from Hillary, or whether Hillary even talks to him. Of course, those PR/makeup people are pretty good these days at covering up the negatives, even a portrait of Dorian Gray. On the other hand -- his best PR person -- Dick Morris, is now working for the opposition.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:42
Crystal Ball (@ Pu'ukani ) ID#306416:
http://www.the-privateer.com

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:38
Snowball (OK, what's the secret?) ID#290213:
How do you paste a URL so that you can just click on it and go there?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:34
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
D.A. -- Don't get so hyped over it. It is no more than a game. Only REAL fall guys and citizens get shafted. Also notice how much the markets have taken notice to date!!!. Hell, soon he'll have a 110% pupularity in someones poll!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:32
Snowball (@TechTrader re:21:06) ID#290213:
Try this back to 1833 /gold.live.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:31
ERLE (Eldorado@scene) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yessir, I just saw another reference to free public schools in our local paper.
Actually, it is not a local paper, as it is a wholely owned subsidiary of a chain that runs from Montana to Wisconsin.
Envy's run for the mayoralty of his burg in Virginia is doomed, unless the local paper is locally owned. The writer journalism school grads in the home office Florida newspaper comglomerate set the tone of any political debate for many of the small towns of the southeastern US. I know that it is the same in New Zealand, and Australia, for I have noticed that the papers in those countries are owned by a very few companies. Therefore, you get the company line, as do the people that live thousands of miles away.
We have lost a great deal of community with the rise of the information consolidations. The internet is great for kindred souls, as on Kitco, but, it surely cannot substitute for the local political give-and-take, and debate.
Do you have the slightest doubt that Envy could make an impact on the discourse in his community, if it was covered as newspapers had done in the past? Now, he'll have to answer to the controllers of the media who live hundreds of miles from the people that constitute his community.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:28
STUDIO.R (@Wisdom of a United States Senator........) ID#119358:
Copyright © 1998 STUDIO.R/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
namely, The Honorable Robert C. Byrd, democratic Senator from the Great State of West Virginia...what follows is an excerpt from his speech of September 9, 1998 as delivered on the Seanate floor.....

There is no question but that the President, himself, has sown the wind, and he is reaping the whirlwind. His televised speech of August 17 heaped hot coals upon himself, coals causing wounds which continue to inflame and burn ever more deeply. Coming, as the speech did, so soon after the President's appearance before the Grand Jury, his words were ill-timed, ill-formed, and ill-advised. Perhaps if he had only delayed his televised speech for 24 hours, he may have, upon reflection, avoided some self-inflicted wounds that have since festered and continue to fester.


The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
When the scribes and Pharisees brought before Jesus a woman taken in adultery, saying that, under Moses, the law commanded that she be stoned, they sought to tempt Jesus that they might accuse him. He said unto them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And that ancient admonition, that he who is without sin should cast the first stone, applies to every human being in this country today. Someone else has said: No man's life will bear looking into. These admonishments should give all of us pause and should encourage reflection and self-examination. In this instance, the President, himself, has, by his own actions and words, thrown the first stone at himself and thus made himself vulnerable to the stoning by others.

What a sorrowful spectacle! To maintain that Presidents have private lives is, of course, not to be denied, but the Oval Office of the White House is not a private office; it is where much of the business of the Nation is conducted daily; it is the people's office; and the only real privacy that any President can realistically claim is in the third- floor living quarters of the White House with his family. What the President had hoped to claim was nobody else's business has now become everybody else's business.

His speech was a lawyer-worded effort -- as in the reference to legally accurate testimony -- and the people have long since grown tired of having to pick and sift among artfully crafted words that have too often obscured the truth rather than revealed it.

salud! to Senator Byrd, a learned keeper of democracy.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:22
JTF (Euro gold holdings -- best post of the day!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Kudos to today's poster of that piece about Europeans having the most gold -- more than the US official holdings. That is the first time in months I could decipher internal vs internal European reserves.

The 15% of reserve gold holdings applies to the EURO itself, which is still thinly traded compared to the other European currencies. Further, total gold reserves ( internal plus external ) are 30% of total reserves.

What I don't understand is that the US is supposed to have even more than 30% reserves in gold.

I think the problem is that one should not really compare percent of total reserves that are in gold, but rather how many ounces of gold ( in the local currency units ) compared to the money supply. The old bottom line is simply whether or not the local currency can be backed 100% by gold.

When CB gold holdings are compared in this manner, I think Switzerland and one other forgotten country comes out on top ( Austria? ) . And, I think Europe comes off much better this way than the good 'ol USA.

APH: Kudos to you -- telling us where you put your retirement funds: Gold and energy mutual funds. For the last two weeks that is exactly where I had my funds: 40% in gold funds FSAGX, FDPMX, 10% in FSNGX ( since the jetstream swept down over the US, 50% cash. About 10% profit overall, and more to come! Since I remember Oct 97 vividly, I darenot put all my liquid assets in the markets, unlike you.

I think gold equities will continue to do well as long as the impeachment trial continues.

However, I have one eye looking back over my shoulder for that big delationary Tsunami that might hit us unsuspecting gold bug Tsunami surfers. Brazil is looking shakier and shakier.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:21
D.A. (its not a recall election) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Allen:

As I said from the start, the guy is probably not fit to be a used car salesman. That still does not change the idea that the Constitution lays out very specific language when dealing with removing a sitting president. It doesn't say anything about removing a president because he is a jerk. It does say something about treason, bribery, high crimes and misdemeanors. In fact, several Republicans voted against the article of impeachment which pertained to Clinton's lying in the civil deposition ,which he most certainly did, because they felt that the level of transgression did not meet the standard of high crime as described in the Constitution. Enough so, that that article did not pass, and so is no longer relavant.

I sincerely hope that no governmental entity ever targets you for prosecution. If they do, my guess is that you will wish there was an endless amount of 'legal hairsplitting' to get done, and that you would be more appreciative of system which gives the benefit of doubt to the accused.

I started this bit of non-gold discussion because I am fascinated with the views of many at this site. I am extraordinarily puzzled with what appears to be a glaring contradiction. Goldbugs and their brethren seem to be drawn towards an antigovernment, libertarian viewpoint, yet in this case they seem happily to side with the prosecutorial power. As a citizen I am far less scared of the 'damage' that Clinton might have done to Paula Jones lawsuit where only money was at stake, than the Gestapo-like tactics of Starr and his office. I have been involved in civil litigation and lost a fair amount of money because one the parties got away with lying through his teeth and the judge had difficulty with 4th grade arithmetic. I was also falsely accused and nearly jailed in NYC, because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It scared the *&* ( out of me, and has colored my thinking about police power and criminal law to this day.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:20
Pu'ukani (Privateer) ID#22584:
Bill, would you mind posting the URL for the Privateer website? I thought I had it bookmarked but it seems to have disappeared. TIA

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:16
Bill Buckler (Gold in Euros) ID#256381:
As promised at the end of 1998, The Privateer has a new Gold chart - Gold in Euros. So far, there's only a week of data on it. But it sure looks different from the rest of the charts.

Take a look. It's up at The Privateer website along with all our other regular weekly updates.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:14
yellowcab (bre-ex law suit news) ID#18355:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990108/be2.html

fyi

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:11
ERLE (Chicken man) ID#190411:
I am not sure what you referred to in your post.
http://www.gold.org/
How are your bond trades going? I learned a bit from your past posts. Try to post more often.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:11
tolerant1 (D.A., Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I would suggest that you refocus your attention) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
on my previous post. In that I quickly answered you query, I provided information as to the implied and alleged instances of perjury. In as much as the President is not on trial in a criminal court, the question is moot as I stated. It would only become meaningful if he is removed from office and pursued in a criminal court.

What you wish to engage in is a discussion as to the rules as defined by the court and the defense and prosecution teams, as to the meanings of specific words in the English language as they relate specifically to that moment in time, in the courtroom during the P. Jones case.

Then you wish to engage in conversation based on your ability to agree or disagree with my definitions as I see them, then you would proceed to determine if those definitions are arguable in our court system under the current rules, regulations and interpretations. We would then discuss the meanings of these same words and how they correlate to the responses given by the President before ( of course he was not before them as he was on tape ) the Grand Jury. ( and if he was before the Grand Jury?…why did he get there early, and how can an arrival be defined as a place. )

Find me a dictionary where the word perjure is not defined by more than ONE, count it, ONE word and ONE word ONLY. I say perjure = liar. PERIOD

Then we can dispense with the histrionics and I will represent the prosecution and you can act as defense.
_________________________________________________________________________

Federal Procedure and Problems

Six clauses in the federal Constitution embody the law:

Article I, sections 2 and 3; Article II, section 2. The House indicts, the Senate tries, and the chief justice of the United States presides over the inquiry in case of impeachment of the president.

A two-thirds vote of the senators present is required to convict. Punishment is limited to removal from office ( with the acts of the accused still subject to criminal proceedings in the courts ) .

Impeachable acts are Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

http://www.grolier.com/presidents/ea/side/impeach.html

Article I, Section 2, Clause 5

The House of Representatives...shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

Article I, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1

The President...shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Article II, Section 4, Clause 1

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Article III, Section 2, Clause 3

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury

http://www.conservativeusa.org/const-imp.htm




Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:06
TechTrader (Historical Gold Prices) ID#372180:
Anyone know of any FREE places to download gold prices back to the 1800's?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 21:06
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
ERLE -- The socialist types have actually been so successful in their agenda that they have gotten the 'normal' people to demand their own pieces of the 'free pie'. HAR!!!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:59
ERLE (US 30 yr treasuries) ID#190411:
have gone from 46.90 in October to 52.56 today, with an intraday of 52.83.
I wonder how this will play with the BS artists that tout the surplus that the gommint enjoys.
Do any of you gentlemen care to lend money to the US gommint for thirty years? Does their fiat growth of 15%+ make these paper things attractive?
Realistic might want to check up on farfel's perdickshun of a rout in 30yr values; just give it some time. I think f* was asking his acquaintences to reconsider a buy-and-hold of this paper, not the bond traders.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:58
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
D.A. -- Guess we'll all just have to see how 'alert' the counsel is to non-responsive answers and how well they might rectify the situation. Hey, with a house full of lawyers they ought to be quite alert! ( YA, RIGHT!!! )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:54
BigFisherman (Spock) ID#258273:
Sorry for misinterpreting your intent.

Live well and prosper.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:45
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
ERLE -- As a side note , socialist types have never run a business that wasn't subsidized. They only run for office where they can 'vote' someone elses funds toward a project to benefit their own ilk.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:43
Chicken man (ERLE @ May I ask a favor?) ID#341297:
Some time ago you were cleaning up your bookmarks and you posted a World Gold Council link about the EURO...I was hoping you might still have it..would you share again?

TIA....Chicken man..

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:41
D.A. (say.it.aint.so) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Panda:

According to the Supreme Court of the USA even intentional evasiveness is not perjury as long as literal truth is told. Consider the following from United States vs. Bronston decided in 1973:


In the leading case on the law of perjury, the Supreme Court addressed whether a witness may be convicted of perjury for an answer, under oath, that is literally true but not responsive to the question asked and arguably misleading by negative implication.

The Court directly answered the question no. It made absolutely clear that a literally truthful answer cannot constitute perjury, no matter how much the witness may have intended by his answer to mislead.

Bronston involved testimony taken under oath at a bankruptcy hearing. At the hearing, the sole owner of a bankrupt corporation was
asked questions about the existence and location of both his personal assets and the assets of his corporation. The owner testified as
follows:

Q: Do you have any bank accounts in Swiss banks, Mr. Bronston?

A: No, sir.

Q: Have you ever?

A: The company had an account there for about six months in Zurich.

Q: Have you any nominees who have bank accounts in Swiss banks?

A: No, sir.

Q: Have you ever?

A: No, sir.

The government later proved that Bronston did in fact have a personal Swiss bank account that was terminated prior to his
testimony. The government prosecuted Bronston on the theory that in order to mislead his questioner, [Bronston] answered the second
question with literal truthfulness but unresponsively addressed his answer to the company's assets and not to his own --thereby implying
that he had no personal Swiss bank account at the relevant time.

The Supreme Court unanimously rejected this theory of perjury. It assumed for purposes of its holding that the questions referred to
Bronston's personal bank accounts and not his company's assets. Moreover, the Court stated, Bronston's answer to the crucial question
was not responsive, and indeed an implication in the second answer to the second question [is] that there was never a personal bank
account. The Court went so far as to note that Bronston's answers were not guileless but were shrewdly calculated to
evade. However, the Court emphatically held that implications alone do not rise to the level of perjury, and that Bronston
therefore could not have committed perjury. [W]e are not dealing with casual conversation and the statute does not make it a criminal act
for a witness to willfully state any material matter that implies any material matter that he does not believe to be true. The
Court took pains to point out the irrelevance of the witness's intent: A jury should not be permitted to engage in conjecture whether an
unresponsive answer, true and complete on its face, was intended to mislead or divert the examiner.
The Supreme Court in Bronston provided several rationales for its holding that literally true, non-responsive answers are by definition
non-perjurious, regardless of their implications. First, the Court noted that the burden always rests squarely on the interrogator to ask
precise questions, and that a witness is under no obligation to assist the interrogator in that task. The Court perceive[d] no reason why
Congress would intend the drastic sanction of a perjury prosecution to cure a testimonial mishap that could readily have been reached with
a single additional question by counsel alert -- as every counsel ought to be--to the incongruity of petitioner's unresponsive answer.
Moreover, the Court noted that because of the adversarial process, perjury is an extraordinary and unusual sanction, since a
prosecution for perjury is not the sole, or even the primary safeguard against errant testimony. The perjury statute cannot be
invoked simply because a wily witness succeeds in derailing the questioner -- so long as the witness speaks the literal truth.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:39
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#226299:
ERLE -- When it gets to be too expensive for a business to create a job....

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:36
Envy (@Eldorado) ID#219363:
No way, not me. *grin*. We'd be the first ever city to secede from the union, the first city to install toll booths on Interstate to tax foreign folks passing through our territory. Seriously though, a local official should look at it that way to some extent. A good mayor should see his or her city as the center of the known Universe and negotiate with the state and the union on behalf of their electorate. Too many local officials are just administrators for the state and bow to pressure, accept edicts, etc, as if they were powerless to refuse.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:34
ERLE (Kaplan:) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
THE TRUTH ABOUT A UNITED EUROPE: When the plan for a European Central Bank was devised a few years
ago, specific strict budget deficit targets had to be achieved for any country to qualify for membership. Since
qualification was considered to be of prime political and economic importance, many nations adopted much
more responsible plans for reducing their budget deficits. Now that these countries have been accepted as
ECB members, they no longer feel the impetus to be responsible, and have reverted to the large budget
deficits that caused their economic problems in the first place. Ironically, those countries which had pressed
the hardest for tough guidelines, such as Germany and France, have regressed the most, no doubt
concluding that from a political standpoint they would rather be seen as increasing the deficit rather than
increasing unemployment or slashing social programs. Also, they have certainly concluded that they are not
about to be kicked out of the ECB no matter how irresponsibly they behave, since it would create too much
internal dissension at a time when a united front is critical for the success of the euro. The net result: with
no motivation to prevent spiraling deficits, gradually other ECB member requirements are going to be
relaxed or ignored, until cheating is rampant. Eventually, inflation is going to accelerate, other problems will
intensify, and the euro is going to collapse as a viable reserve currency. ( The euro could not survive any
extended period of time in any case, as economic union is meaningless without political union. If a deep
recession hits Portugal, for instance, and its citizens are not permitted to move to, say, Germany to take
advantage of a boom there, then Portugal may have no choice but to withdraw to prevent severe societal
unrest. )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:30
ERLE (Kaplan's first paragraph) ID#190411:
says it for the inarticulate, like me.
The structural problems of the EU; high unemployment ( especially among the younger people ) , high taxes ( as if it isn't a problem in the US ) , and new socialist gommints ( same ) , cannot be fixed with another layer of equalitarianistic bureaurocracy.
Squander gold?
http://www.goldminingoutlook.com/

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:25
Spock (Beaming Up Now......) ID#210114:
To anyone else I may have insulted; my unreserved apologies.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:21
Hedgehog (tolerant1 Siddhartha to Govinda.... Hermann Hesse) ID#39857:
There is one thought I have had, Govinda, which you will again think is a jest or a folly: that is, in every truth the opposite is equally true. For example, a truth can only be expressed and enveloped in words if it is one-sided. Everything that is athought and expressed in words is one-sided, only half the truth, it all lacks totality, completeness, unity. ............illusion and truth.
a gulp and a puff in reflection to you

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:18
D.A. (the golden impeachment) ID#7568:
Tol1:

You're slipin and slidin. Refocus.

The question was and remains, where in Clinton's grand jury testimony did he make a perjurious statement. It's not fair to say that on such and such a date he lied, or said something to someone, or anything else of that nature.

The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. The prosecutor must stand up and say that the defendant said x and that not only was x false, but it was material, and its intent was to mislead. All I ask is that you find
'x' in Clinton's grand jury testimony. No more, no less.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:16
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Envy -- Mayor! Hell, now there's a concept! Shoot. You could even find that to be 'enjoyable'!!!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:12
ERLE (With the succesful launch of a unified currency,) ID#190411:
When are the Eurocrats going to make Esperanto the continental language?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:09
Envy (@Eldorado) ID#219363:
I'm in a small town in Virginia, and all I can say about sovereign power is that the folks here had better never ask me to be mayor, because the first thing I'd do is consolidate my support and set myself against the state of Virginia. There are a lot of policies I think are completely unfair in this state, especially in regards to how much money leaves my town and ends up in the northern Virginia school system ( Nova as it's called in the District of Columbia ) and some recent deals struck between the state and the telecommunications industry. Heaven forbid I ever be elected mayor.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:04
Silverbaron (ERLE) ID#290456:

Sounds like you found a really good source - those prices are quite a bit lower than I see these days. It isn't usually as economical looking for the old stuff, but I find that it's a lot more fun for me...like the day I found a 1776 George III Guinea for 100 bucks. It could have belonged to that other George whats-his-name, the one they named the city after.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 20:01
ERLE (Pretty gold, cheap.) ID#190411:
Silverbaron,
The same dealer has Austrian 100 Corona ( .9802 oz/.900 fine ) in mint state for a veeery low premium. Along with these I got a few Hungarian 100 Korona, which is the same peso, but are gorgeous proof-like shiny things.
The quality of the strike is better than any bullion coin that I have seen, other than platinum Eagles. ( as good )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:56
gagnrad (Aurator, no gold plate is much more markup!) ID#43460:
I think that the cheap stuff you were talking about may have much higher markup, maybe 1000x spot. But the fact that it uses cyanide baths in plating process makes it really difficult to repair when it gets old so it has a limited market. IMHO

What I was talking about was good, high grade, well wearing artistic jewelry in reasonable weights. Maybe 10x was the upper limit but take your postage scale to the mall with you the next time you go and see that 5x is very common. IMHO

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:55
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Envy -- Everyone must obey, no matter the cost. That's democracy.

Har!!! I've heard it said before that 'democracy' is the basis of totalitarism. Perhaps a few more about here will begin to understand. Let us not confuse 'it' with a Republic and/or the sovereignty of souls.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:49
gagnrad (RJ if that war really you, good luck!) ID#43460:


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:48
ERLE (Siverbaron, no I didn't get e-mail.) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tom,
I wasted a bunch of time on trying to get answers from the CB of Argentina. As usual, the newsies that write the stories don't get enough facts, or, they are dead wrong.
I did try to piggyback on a big buyer type, to get some common coins, if they were to go at melt value. They never got back to me either.
I did find a source for sovereign equivalents, and sovs. I got some Colombian 5 Peso for 68.00 and sovereigns for 73.50 when Au was 286.50 spot. Gold content .2354 oz/$67.44 .
I have not found a better deal elsewhere, and, the people are great, so I guess that it worked out OK.
I am sending a Colombian 5 Peso to aurator's wink museum when I receive the stuff.
I asked the dealer to keep an eye out for comparable old stuff.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:46
gagnrad (LGB re RJ) ID#43460:
One might find it of note that the email address that RJ gave last night in the middle of the Hepcat invasion wasn't his usual one. I wouldn't be surprised to find the post to be a hoax. And even if it was real, RJ is a level headed fellow and will probably cool off. As for Hepcat he will be a pain only if the community responds to his hassles. Some people cant stand the thought of community, electronic or otherwise but they dont usually last so long if they find people dont let them under their skins. IMHO of course.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:44
Envy (Brazil Warns Rebellious Governor) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SAO PAULO, Brazil ( AP ) -- The Brazilian government on Friday warned it won't stand for a debt moratorium declared this week by a rebellious state governor. Breaking the law won't be tolerated, President Fernando Henrique Cardoso said in a speech to his cabinet. Everyone must obey, no matter the cost. That's democracy. The message was aimed at Gov. Itamar Franco of Minas Gerais, Brazil's third-wealthiest state. On Wednesday, Franco declared a 90-day moratorium on the state's debt payments to the federal government, saying his coffers were empty. The move alarmed investors, already worried about Brazil's $65 billion budget deficit and its loss of nearly $40 billion in reserves since July. Stocks, debt bonds and even the dollar plunged in markets around the world. Share prices on the Sao Paulo Stock Exchange, Latin America's largest, opened higher Friday after plunging 5.1 percent on Thursday. But they slipped slightly after Cardoso's speech -- some had expected even tougher language -- and dipped further on rumors that Finance Minister Pedro Malan could be on the way out.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne1m.htm
--
Now what an interesting turn of events this is becoming. And I quote, Everyone must obey, no matter the cost. That's democracy.. Actually I think it's kinda cool that the state governor just up and told the Brazilian government to get out of his state's business. So often local officials forget that they are charged with looking after their own people, that the state or locality is in itself a sovereign. I've rarely heard of local officials, especially cities, telling the state to go to hell, but it would be a refreshing change.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:42
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
RJ -- Given the actionable speed of this scene lately, I could about second the motion. Enjoy...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:40
aurator (Solid 9Kt Gold Plated Jewellery) ID#257148:
gagnrad
Good point. When the POG leaps skyward, some sunny day, I guess that jewellers will have to reduce their margins. Can't imagine a 10x margin will be acceptable on POG north of $1,000. [dream with me for a moment--dwmfam]

Could it be that this whole POG un-market is a subtle ploy by the manufactures of 'solid' 9 kt gold-plated chains to maintain their very profitable margins?

Should we be looking at the Italian chintzy jewellery manufacturers for clues as to how low POG can go to increase margins on junk gold jewellery?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:38
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Donald -- Read that article. Har. Just another case where 'your' money is not yours...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:35
RJ (..... Just to clarify .....) ID#22849:

Received bunches of e-mails
To which I say thank you
To all but one

My decision to not post here has nothing to do
With anything posted on this site, or anyone posting it
It is a private decision, reached after some consideration
The reasons are my own, and I prefer to keep it that way
Past writings are likely to show up on another page

At another time

OK

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:32
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
mozel -- Income taxes should easily fall within the definition of actionable fraud.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:29
Spock (Bigfisherman Jan 7 20:37) ID#210114:
Copyright © 1998 Spock/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Spock, your defamatory tone is unnecessary. We shall see if the events of the coming year
prove whether or not the facts support your superiority complex. I for one welcome all
opinions and come to this site to hear well reasoned arguments from all points of view. I
detest derogatory comment as it only serves to gratify the ego of the poster.

Bigfisherman, when was I deregetory? I make a point of trying not to insult people.

I think you may be a bit confused. I cut and paste something from Mooney which said clear the idiots out of this sight. But those were his words, not mine.

Oh yes, and I don't think I'm superior to anyone.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:23
gagnrad (Lurker777 good answer last night, for the downside at least.) ID#43460:
But what about the upside? When would you sell your gold? Is there a specific figure that would flush out a sale or is there a rate of change per rate of change per time? And when on the upside would you sell your put and buy another higher one? Questions, questions and no answers?

I think the goldsmiths among us have the right idea, to buy at market and fabricate then sell at 10x market.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:22
Envy (@Prospector) ID#219363:
Do you sell any of the raw nuggets you get from momma-nature ?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:21
Silverbaron (ERLE) ID#290456:

I seem to recall that you had an interest in the gold coins coming out of Argentina....did you get my post some time ago about the coins being in an upcoming auction by one of the big firms? ( Christys or Sothebys, I don't recall offhand )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:17
Silverbaron (El Borak) ID#290456:

Good information on Royal, thanks. BTW, brother Sheller said that since he liked the chart so much, he might be able to work up an astrological chart for us on the company. Heaven knows, they need all the help they can get.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:13
El Borak (Allen(USA) Animals) ID#230245:
Actually, It's not *exactly* true. While I was making the message, I found an animal that was already dead in my fridge. I ate it on a bun with mustard.

So it depends on what the definition of 'were killed' is.

Copyright 1999, El Borak, Inc. Makers of Burmese Solicitor Trap, the trap door for your front porch. Sharpened spikes not included.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:13
Donald (Second rogue trader and additional losses in Griffin derivative failure) ID#26793:
http://www.scotsman.com:80/business/bs09grif990108.1.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:11
ERLE (Prospector) ID#190411:
That an interesting site that you posted. -Just the thing for mining ignorant people like me. Thanks.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:09
El Borak (Silverbaron - RSMI) ID#230245:
Copyright © 1998 El Borak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Royal Silver doesn't have any producing properties ( they were Oh-so-close with a big copper deal in Chile ( Mocha District ) , but Teck dropped the option in July ) . Also in July, they signed an option to do some exploring in California, but I hadn't heard anything except that they were trying to raise $100k this summer to do it.

RSMI has properties in Idaho ( some of the best in the valley ) , Mexico, and Argentina. They own the Conjecture mine and have a 99-year lease ( paid in full ) on the Crescent. SSC's West Chance vein goes under the Crescent.

It's bizarre...they've got about 12 million shares total, 4+/- on the float, but it's a stock which trades 2 or three times a day normally. The last 3 days have had about 5 times the normal activity, almost all of it buys. The market makers don't know what's up. My broker called them and they weren't saying. Wierd.

Due to the environmental problems at Bunker, they dropped the option. I doubt they will be looking at that again. A million bucks is something they don't have right now.

They also announced that they would be merging with Centurion ( before it was Grand Central ) , and the management of RSMI is in charge there. I haven't heard anything about the merger since November '97.

Well, at least at 20 cents a share, it's back over book value.

Copyright 1999, El Borak, inc. No animals were killed or injured in the making of this message.





Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 19:08
Allen(USA) (El Borak) ID#257351:
Do you have that verified by an independant auditing firm? I mean about the animal part?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:55
El Borak (Silverbaron - RSMI) ID#230245:
Copyright © 1998 El Borak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Royal doesn't have any producing properties ( they were Oh-so-close with a big copper deal in July ( Mocha District ) , but Teck dropped the option in July ) . Also in July, they signed an option to do some exploring in California, but I hadn't heard anything except that they were trying to raise $100k in July to do it.

RSMI has properties in Idaho ( some of the best in the valley ) , Mexico, and Argentina. They own the Conjecture mine and have a 99-year lease ( paid in full ) on the Crescent. SSC's West Chance vein goes under the Crescent.

It's bizarre...they've got about 12 million shares total, 4+/- on the float, but it's a stock which trades 2 or three times a day normally. The last 3 days have had about 5 times the normal activity, almost all of it buys. The market makers don't know what's up. My broker called them and they weren't saying. Wierd.

Due to the environmental problems at Bunker, they dropped the option. I doubt they will be looking at that again. A million bucks is something they don't have right now.

Well, at least at 20 cents a share, it's back over book value.

Copyright 1999, El Borak, inc. No animals were killed or injured in the making of this message.





Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:53
Allen(USA) (D.A.) ID#257351:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I can see your point a bit on this. But really, you have 100's of lawyers in the House and Senate. You would think that they could see through this pretty easily if it were mere hair splitting.

Actually, I find weaseling to be one of the most reprehensible of the legal culture's habits.

Forget the legal hairsplitting. BC has lied to the public, to his family and staff and in court. He is a weasel of the first order. If he is willing to do this in order to hide an affair he carried on with a *employee* of the White House, then what would he NOT lie about?

The impeachment hearings of the House and the adjudication of the Senate are not trials in the sense of court trials. These processes were designed to eject president's who failed the office and the country. It really is a matter of consensus as to whether BC is fit to be or remain president of the USA.

The man is a pathological liar and manipulator. He also has ordered politically motivated armed raids on countries in order to deflect interest away from his problems. That is a DANGEROUS precident, don't you think?


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:37
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmm...) ID#20359:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_251000/251199.stm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:36
Prospector (BigFisherman) ID#221227:
My father used to say that to be a good prospector, you have to delude yourself and everyone else. So grab your pan and a pile of delusions and head for the hills to find that platinum reef!

There might be an easier way though. Check out my post Another rich gold reef on the Treasurenet Forum.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forum/prospecting/current.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:35
aurator (Lies, damned lies, and statistics) ID#257148:
Speaking of frauds, what about the FDIC?
Ft Knox's gold? In both cases, whether there is or is not fraud will only be discovered after the horse has bolted.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:25
tolerant1 (I hope they don't turn it over to Disney...) ID#20359:
http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/article/0,1051,CTT-5025116,00.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:21
mozel (Actionable Fraud) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Actionable fraud Deception practiced in order to induce another to part
with property or surrender some legal right. A false representation made
with an intention to deceive; such may be committed by stating what is
known to be false or by professing knowledge of the truth of a statement
which is false, but in either case, the essential ingredient is a
falsehood uttered with intent to deceive. To constitute actionable
fraud, it must appear that defendant made a material representation;
that it was false; that when he made it that he made it with intention
that it should be acted on by plaintiff; that plaintiff acted in
reliance on it; and that plaintiff thereby suffered injury. [case cite
omitted] Essential elements are representation, falsity, scienter,
deception, reliance and injury. See fraud. ( Emphasis added ) Black's Law
Dictionary, Sixth Edition.

President Clinton stood before the Palestinian National Council
and spoke of two profoundly emotional experiences in less than
24 hours. One of those experiences was his meeting with the
children of jailed Palestinian-Arab terrorists. The other experience
was meeting Israilis, some little children whose fathers had been
killed in conflict with Palestinians. But the minister for public
affairs at the Israeli Embassy, Avi Granot, said he could not
confirm whether any such meeting between Mr. Clinton and Israeli
children took place. Other Israeli government sources who would
speak only on condition of anonymity said Mr. Clinton never met
with the Israeli children. The White House and State Department
did not return calls about whether such a meeting took place.
There was no such event on the public schedule of the trip.

Now, in his testimony to the people and to the court, did Clinton intend to deceive about the Lewinsky matter ?

There is a reason for all this fraud in public office and a reason none of it results in the removal of the official from office. And, boys and girls, Clinton is not special. How many of them have uttered the phrase Social Security Trust Fund ?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:17
Donald (Weekend fun for California goldbugs and their kids) ID#26793:
http://www.latimes.com:80/excite/990108/t000002142.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:09
Donald (Gold and silver coin prices at noon today) ID#26793:
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19990108/V000034-010899-idx.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 18:07
tolerant1 (D.A., Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...just checked and the photo on FOXnews is) ID#20359:
not there anymore, it was a scene outside the House where in rather large letters...written in the snow it said...impeach....great security at the front door huh...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 17:55
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .250. The 233 day moving average is .247

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 17:53
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 33.08. The 233 day moving average is 29.65

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 17:39
Silverbaron (Hmmmmmmmm....for you fans of Y2K) ID#290456:
Here's an out-of-print book on Y2K published ( hold onto your hat ) in 1984 !!!

Amazon.com: A Glance: Computers in Crisis : How to Avert the Coming Worldwide Computer Systems Collapse

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0894332236/qid%3D915833509/002-9261218-1196223 l

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 17:29
panda (D.A.) ID#50149:
Under the law, one can not practice evasion to avoid telling the truth. This has already been tested in the courts and declared perjurious. The correct answer is, I do not possess any physical gold, but I do own financial assets that are involved with that precious metal.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 17:04
Year2000 (Clinton Should Not Remain as President!) ID#228100:
Copyright © 1998 Year2000/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
But he should never have testified, or answered those questions. IF HE HAD NOT, the Republicans would have a tough time impeaching him for rather technical legal issues regarding Executive Privilege, and whether a sitting president could be forced to testify in a civil trial. BUT NOW the issue is his sex life for the past thirty years.

Most of the evidence that convicts criminals is supplied by the criminals themselves. ( Ever watch NYPD Blue? ) Nixon made exactly the same mistake. If he had destroyed his tapes, there would not have been enough evidence to convict him! ( Sorry - I don’t know what this has to do with the POG. )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 17:01
Speed (RANGY website) ID#9337:
http://www.geocities.com/~polarbear47/rangy.htm

This webpage is verrrrry slow... BBML

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 16:52
MKVI (definition of sex) ID#347185:
Copyright © 1998 MKVI/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sorry to contribute to the non-PM discussion -but-

The definition of sex specified *engaging* in a number of acts/ certain forms of touching.

NOT performing certain acts, NOT touching in certain ways as Clinton chose to twist it. He most certainly was engaged in such acts while she might have been the only one to have been performing them.

I don't know where but the definition of sex in the Jones case must be out there somewhere for the curious.

I find direct quotes to have been conspicuously absent from any claims about said definition.

Going home in the snow to start the Landrover...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 16:43
Silverbaron (El Borak) ID#290456:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Nope - I haven't heard anything. My post was based on two things only - the extreme oversold condition ( which could hardly go any lower ) and the strategic position of RSMI property with reference to the big players Hecla, Coeur d'Alene, and Silver Valley Resources ( jointly run by Coeur and Asarco ) . If silver goes up big this year, the property and mining rights to it will be worth a lot of money.

Royal's development ventures haven't been very successful the last few years, so I don't know any new fundamental information except for the price movement of silver. I believe that they passed on their option to develop the big property at Bunker Hill, but I don't know if they still have the rights to do so in the future. It is my understanding that they have a producing property in Mexico, but I don't know the details.

This is strictly a speculation, but since the stock is so very thinly traded ( float is only a few million shares ) , a little interest goes a long way in price, as you saw today.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 16:31
tolerant1 (D.A., Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...this is an extremely rough draft in response to your query...) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In as much as the President and counsel have never refuted ( and in fact have gone on record as to agree with the Starr Report ) points 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, and 15 during the impeachment proceedings, it appears to be a moot point. However, it is important to predicate the previous with the facts. One, English is a horrible language that allows for several definitions for a particular word based on many different circumstances. You can prick your finger but if you finger your prick it becomes a wholly separate matter as I am sure you would agree.

The President is not now in a criminal proceeding, nor was he when he was impeached. He was and is now in a Constitutional realm, which was created to be a mix of politics, judicial and philosophical thoughts, opinions and facts.

Dereliction of Oath is at the heart of this matter. I think one would agree that receiving fellatio ( the act of stimulating the genitals with one’s mouth, defined as and being within the act of sex. ) while on the phone conducting the affairs to which he was elected is not in the realm of being faithful to the Oath he took upon being installed as President. Of course this is hearsay, but as of yet the President has NOT denied the allegation to date.

A systematic self-abuse and abuse of females covering a time span of roughly thirty years. A consistent record of it and of obstructing the civil case brought by P. Jones.

And on and on and on…the fact remains if he had told the truth regarding Lewinsky in the P. Jones case he would be out some money and not in front of the Senate. That was a civil case, he lied, he broke the law and at that point had he been treated like an average citizen he would have been fined and or sentenced or both like thousands and thousands of “average” citizens.


5. . . . testified falsely under oath in his deposition in Jones v. Clinton on Jan. 17, 1998, regarding his relationship with Lewinsky.

6. . . . given false testimony under oath before the federal grand jury on Aug. 17, 1998, concerning his relationship with Lewinsky.

7. . . . given false testimony under oath in his deposition given in Jones v. Clinton, regarding his statement that he could not recall being alone with Lewinsky and regarding his minimizing the number of gifts that they had exchanged.

8. . . . testified falsely under oath in his deposition given in Jones v. Clinton concerning conversations with Lewinsky about her involvement in the Jones case.

12. . . . testified falsely under oath in his deposition given in Jones v. Clinton concerning his conversations with Vernon Jordan about Lewinsky.

15. . . . given false testimony under oath before the federal grand jury on Aug. 17, 1998, concerning his knowledge of the contents of Lewinsky's affidavit and his knowledge of remarks made in his presence by his counsel.

These are taken directly from the 15 items in the President's impeachment.

http://www.foxnews.com/ ...pssst....psssst...look at the snow...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 16:02
D.A. (not.so) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Moregold:

If the question put to Clinton was as you described it, I would agree. However, it was not. The question was 'did you have sexual relations with ML according to the definition of sexual relations put forward by Paula Jones's lawyers'. Regardless of what you or I might think of the meaning of the term sexual relations, it is not relavent.

Consider the following analogy. Suppose someone asked you in a deposition whether you were 'long gold'. You said what does that mean. They said that for purposes of this deposition, long gold means owning physical gold. You said no. Then it turned out that you owned a zillion dollars worth of ABX but no bullion. Do you think that you should be prosecuted for perjury?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:57
Envy (New Rome) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Following is a news article posted to the AP wire. I removed the reference at the beginning saying where the release came from. Without clicking on the link, guess which country this happened in. The question is, why ? What drives this kind of stuff ? In the country where this incident took place, what has gone wrong, what can be done to fix it if anything ? It should be obvious which country this happened in.

( AP ) - A man who injected his son with the AIDS virus to avoid paying child support was sentenced Friday to life in prison.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne1h.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:49
MoReGoLd (@DA - Can I Answer ?) ID#348286:
I saw the clip on last nights news: He was asked did you have sexual relations with M.L. : He replied NO.
In most sane peoples minds a B-J is sexual relations. If its not, then there'd be a lot of married men getting it with young women in the middle of the street.......

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:47
Envy (@Tantalus) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You said: If I may ask your opinion, do bond funds ( in general ) slump as the interest rate falls? Do better as rates rise? TIA. I'm not the guy to ask, I don't have enough experience with bonds. I do know that falling rates and rising bonds go hand in hand. Here's some good information that answers your question. From reading the following text, it sounds like you do indeed get a capital gain when rates fall.

BOND MUTUAL FUND: mutual fund holding bonds. Such funds may specialize in a particular kind of bond, such as government, corporate, convertible, high-yield, mortgage-backed, municipal, foreign, or zero-coupon bonds. Other bond mutual funds will buy some or all of these kinds of bonds. Most bond mutual funds are designed to produce current income for shareholders. Bond funds also produce capital gains when interest rates fall and capital losses when interest rates rise. Unlike the bonds in these funds, the funds themselves never mature. There are two types of bond mutual funds: open- and closed-end. Open-end funds continually create new shares to accommodate new money as it flows into the funds and they always trade at NET ASSET VALUE. Closed-end funds issue a limited number of shares and trade on stock exchanges. Closed-end funds trade at either higher than their net asset value ( a premium ) or lower than their net asset value ( a discount ) , depending on investor demand for the fund.

Source: Barron's Finance & Investment Handbook Fourth Edition, ISBN 0-8120-6465-8

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:47
FOX-MAN (COMEX METAL WAREHOUSE TOTALS...) ID#330280:
COMEX Metal Warehouse statistics for Jan. 7

-- TOTALS
Gold 809,210 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 76,900,113 + 599,517 troy ounces
Copper 96,222 + 905 short tons

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:44
Caper (lock & lode) ID#300202:
I think polarbear had some rangy stuff on golden eagle forum over the past couple of days.

Tom

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:38
El Borak (Silverbaron - RSMI) ID#227363:
The RSMI chart is pretty and what we'd like to see on all of our stocks, of course, but what's up with it? It's gone from .04 to .23 in about a week and no one seems to know why. I just talked to my buddy at Pennaluna and he doesn't know, either ( the buying is coming from other brokers, not his normal silver customers ) .

If he hears anything, it will be at http://www.pennaluna.com

Have *you* heard anything?

Copyright 1999 El Borak, inc. Makers of Chicken Guillotine, the fun way to fill your freezer.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:29
Envy (Greece Inflation Rate at 26-Year Low) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ATHENS, Greece ( AP ) -- Greece's inflation rate slowed to 3.9 percent last month -- its lowest point in 26 1/2 years -- bringing the country one step closer to its dream of membership in the European single currency club. The consumer price index slowed to 3.9 percent on the year in December, compared with 4.2 percent in November, the National Statistics Service said Friday. It was the lowest year-on-year rate since July 1972, when it was running at 3.8 percent. It was also below a previous year-end estimate of 4 percent. Greece was the only country in the 15-member European Union that did not qualify for the euro-zone at the beginning of the year. Britain, Denmark and Sweden have opted out for now. Premier Costas Simitis has made joining the euro currency by 2001 the cornerstone of his Socialist government's policy. But Finance Minister Yannos Papantoniou warned there is still a long way to go before meeting a target to slash inflation to 2 percent at the end of 1999.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn11.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:27
D.A. (impeachment) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tol1:

I've asked this question of a number of people who think Clinton should be removed from office. None have produced a particularly cogent reply. Since you are a sharp fellow, perhaps you can enlighten me.

The question:

Where specifically in Clinton's grand jury testimoney do you think he committed an act of perjury? I'm sure that you are aware that perjury is a specific crime needing a specific set of facts to support it.

Please do not take this as an attack, or as a statement of support for Clinton. I never voted for him, I don't think he is fit to be a used car salesman, let alone president. That being said, I am strongly opposed to the idea that the end justifies the means. If an impeachable offense can not be proven by the same standards that you or I would expect if we were being tried in a criminal proceding, I don't think the man should be removed. It would set a horrendous precedent.

Just to make this a more gold like post, notice that the bond market is on the verge of diving through key support. Also notice that on a day when the dollar is soaring, commodity prices are not collapsing as they have done so often in the past. Could it be that 'this time is different'?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:24
Envy (German Unemployment Rises Again) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
NUREMBERG, Germany ( AP ) -- The number of unemployed Germans exceeded 4 million in December for the first time in four months, due to a cutback in government jobs and a cold snap that slowed construction, the Labor Office said Friday. The unemployment rate rose to 10.9 percent, an increase of a quarter-million people, surpassing even the 10.8 percent regional rate for the 11 countries that last week launched the new European currency, the euro. Otmar Issing, a member of the European Central Bank's executive board, on Friday called the euro bloc's rate unbearably high. German unemployment jumped last month to 4.2 million people, up 0.7 percent from November's level. Still, the figure was below that of the previous year, when the jobless rate was 11.8 percent. Noting the comparison with 1997, Ottmar Schreiner, a spokesman for the governing Social Democrats, said the December figure was gratifying. But the opposition Free Democrats called it an economic warning signal.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1n.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:21
Lock&Lode (Anyone - please provide me a RANGY update / ) ID#266110:
I've been out of circulation since the middle of November. Could someone please provide an update on the situation with RANGY? It appears to me that they consolidated shares at a 3:1 ratio and adjusted the price of the ADR to reflect it. This is my assertion given some sketchy obwervations.

I know that there are probably several Kitco-ites who know the specifics. Please provide a quick summary. Also, please cite any links on the Net where there is specific information about the recent machinations RE: RANGY --- Much obliged.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:19
Envy (@Cage Rattler, James) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Cage Rattler: Trade war already started! *grin*. Japan is stopping imports of rice, well, making it impossible to make a profit selling rice there. We just put that huge barrier up between the US and Europe, which they didn't like one bit. Even talk to cutting off the US agriculture market to the Canadians.

James: What would be even more scary than liars is if the analysts actually believe what they're saying, which I dunno, they might. I like the one guy, Joe, or whoever he is, the analyst that sits on CNBC and gives the number by number news and all that jazz. At least when he says something will probably go up and seems like a good bet he sometimes says well, assuming we continue to have high valuations like we've had for the past four years. It's difficult to watch CNBC sometimes, kind of like listening to the White House talk about how cool the President is. If you want to hear some bears, you have to walk away from the bull show.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:09
James (Amazon.com@Now worth more than Norway. Of course, what the heck does) ID#252150:
Norway have besides their fishing industry? Well, they do have a few of the world's biggest oil & gas fields, but that's just a negative because they lose money pumping it nowadays.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 15:01
TYoung (Gollum...) ID#317193:
Youse got me yesterday but didn't have any strength left today. See you on Monday...bets on again...APH is long gold...you got a fightin' chance kid. : ) : )

Tom

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:47
Uncle Scrooge (whos kidding who) ID#275285:
Copyright © 1998 Uncle Scrooge/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hope springeth eternal
As a financially committed Gold Bug my hopes are the same as yours
Yet deep down I know the score
We live in a world that is rigged , manipulated and controlled and always has been.
Many a historian as tried to enlighten us but truth is a bitter pill
The truth cries out from all directions on the Net and you can bet your last gold bar they'll shut it down if too many of us pawns cotton on to whats going down
If you can earn a comfortable living from the financial game good on you
But don't fool yourself that all the charts statistics and mumbo jumbo mean anything.
Even the laws of probability don't work if the game is rigged
Follow a trend if your quick enough to jump before the tide changes but other than that its all just luck.
Gold will one day reflect its true value but that can only happen when
1. It suits the purposes of those that now manipulare it
2. Global Disaster
The POG is determined by an imaginary game of paper shuffling so don't expect real supply or demand to have any bearing.
It is a small cog in the world of imaginary money and for those that control our imaginary money nothing more than a tool
Your US FED is a privately owned tool
If you can figure out what the owners of the tools intend and bet with them you will make a $ , but then again thats a bit like selling your soul to the devil isn't it

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:36
Jack (MM___the Yahoo report says little) ID#253298:

I think that Yahoo report on gold is misleading.

The tonnages held by the countries listed are for all practical purposes correct.

When they speak about foreign reserves and the US having 53%, no mention is made about the huge balance of payment deficit that we in the US have. Our BOP deficits for most of the past years would wipe our total gold stock out, in any one of those years. I ask, Is the WGC working for the gold industry?

While I am not sure of the BOP deficits of the Europeans, simple logic says it much less than ours

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:35
longj (@allen ) ID#30345:
Well maybe. Did you see my correction around 15:00 yesterday? Anyway that one was slightly mistaken too. I forgot the conversion factor between euros and dollars. Speed posted a good clarification piece earlier today 11:30 or so. Anyhow, thanks to gollum, speed, and you for helping me on this point.

PS: I'll miss RJ's posts around here too.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:32
Cage Rattler (All in the timing ... Clinton cancels meeting with Menem) ID#33184:
DETROIT ( AFX ) - The White House has cancelled President Bill Clinton's news conference planned for next week with Argentine President Carlos Menem, his press secretary Joe Lockhart said.

No reason was given for the cancellation of the appearance, which would have coincided with the beginning of the Senate trial on the impeachment charges voted by the House last month.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:31
James (Euephemisms@These analysts are talking nonsense & gibberish that) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
would baffle Lewis Carrol. One of them was on CNBC answering phoned in questions. One caller asked about Cisco & the analyst went on & on with a glowing reco about the internet being bigger than the industrial revolution & all that bs. He ended up by saying that he is aggresively holding the stock. What kind of doublespeak is that? Basically, he's saying that with P/Es at ridiculous nosebleed levels you need to be aggresive or crazy to hold it. But, that may not be how the caller interpreted his effusive comments. I have no doubt that most of these analysts are knowingly participating in the biggest stock mkt scam ever.
The vast majority of them are sociopathic liars, IMO.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:25
Allen(USA) (goldy88) ID#246224:
Well, I guess you've got it. I don't know where I got my numbers from ( wishful thinking, I suppose? ;- ) )

One wonders if all the gold was transfered from G/I/F then there would still be approx 4,000 tonnes to account for ( appearing ) of which it seems to me unlikely it came from the other 7 nations ( in total ) .

Any guesses where the other gold came from?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:14
MM (FYI) ID#347167:
Euroland -- The World's Largest Gold Holder
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990108/world_gold_1.html

Nice table included as well

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:07
sharefin (Pu'ukani ) ID#284255:
I've always enjoyed the Phantom...^o-o^

Here's a couple more.
http://www.berkana.org/articles/unknown.html

And this one for entertainment value
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000M5v


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:07
tolerant1 (http://www.foxnews.com) ID#20359:
-
Gore, 48 current senators voted to convict impeached judge over grand jury lies
1.55 p.m. ET ( 1856 GMT ) January 8, 1999
By Philip Brasher, Associated Press


WASHINGTON ( AP ) — Is lying to a grand jury an impeachable offense? Vice President Al Gore thought so in 1989. So did Defense Secretary William Cohen, as well as Trent Lott and Tom Daschle, now the Senate's Republican and Democratic leaders.

They were all senators when Walter Nixon, then a federal judge, was removed from the bench after being convicted and imprisoned for giving false testimony to a grand jury investigating his dealings with a business associate.

Gore, Cohen and 48 senators still in office — including Lott, R-Miss., and Daschle, D-S.D. — voted for at least one of the three impeachment articles lodged against Nixon. Two of the articles were approved, on votes of 89-8 and 78-19.

Every case is different,'' said Sen. Chris Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat who voted to convict Nixon but opposes removing President Clinton from office. You've got a different case, a different set of facts, a different standard,'' agreed Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., another of the 27 Democrats now in the Senate who voted to convict Nixon.

One of the two impeachment articles the House passed Dec. 19 alleges Clinton lied to the federal grand jury investigating his relationship with Monica Lewinsky. The second article accuses him of obstructing justice in the Paula Jones lawsuit.

The judge's case is quite analogous'' to Clinton's, said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor who is writing a law journal article on the history of the impeachment process.

Other legal experts disagree, saying presidents and judges are held to different standards under the Constitution. They cite a section of the Constitution that says federal judges, who are appointed for life, shall hold their offices during good behavior.'' There is no similar language concerning the president, elected by the whole country for a limited term.

When a judge has committed perjury ... it was absolutely untenable that he could stay on the bench in a life-tenured position,'' said Alan I. Baron, who was the House's impeachment counsel in Judge Nixon's case.

The judge, appointed by President Lyndon Johnson, was serving a five-year prison term at the time. His perjury conviction stemmed from his denial that he had talked to a prosecutor about helping his business associate's son, who had been indicted on drug charges. Nixon claimed the questions put to him before the grand jury were confusing. He was acquitted on a separate charge that he took an illegal gratuity.

When you've got a judge who's had a criminal conviction, he flunks the good behavior provision,'' said Conrad. That's an absolute no-brainer.''

Reflecting the view of many Democrats, Conrad said a president should be impeached only for offenses that threaten the functions of government. Lying about the national security would be impeachable; lying about a sexual affair is not, he said.

The Senate traditionally deliberates on impeachments in private, but remarks that senators made elsewhere could come back to haunt them. Last week, Republicans circulated comments Gore made in the 1986 impeachment case of Harry Claiborne, a judge imprisoned for tax fraud. Claiborne, like Clinton, said he was a victim of overzealous prosecutors.

Gore said that should in no way abrogate the finding that Claiborne has engaged in impeachable conduct.'' Claiborne lost his judgeship.

Another judge, Alcee Hastings, was ousted in 1989, the same year as Nixon, on charges that he conspired to obtain a bribe and lied to gain acquittal in an earlier trial. Hastings is now a Democratic House member from Florida. The Senate votes against Hastings barely reached the two-thirds majority necessary for removal.

The House has voted articles of impeachment against 15 people, 11 of them federal judges. All seven officials convicted by the Senate were judges.


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:04
Jack () ID#253298:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Eldorado Gold and M-K Gold have been demoted to OTC Bulletin Board. Dayton is lucky to be on American Exchange or they would also be BB material.
The Dayton seems to be pulling down McWatters Mining who has a 15% share interest in Dayton.
McWatters should do 220,000 or more ( Canada only ) ounces next year, their fine old Sigma Mine has been improved, milling will be up due to both increased underground and recent open pit feed. Their Kiena mine speakes for itself.
Company has a solid property position in Quebec and a probable low cost position in Newfoundland.
They are worth a close look. Check them out http://www.cdn-news.com and write in mcwatters at the search block.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 14:00
Pu'ukani (sharefin-Phantom) ID#22584:
Thanks, I already downloaded most of that material. It is excellent, I was just hoping there would be some new stuff.

BTW, Keep up the great work. Personally I value the Y2K info highly. Whether anything big happens or not in the world of computers and finance, the whole phenomenon is likely to have major effects on people's lives just because of the psychological implications.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:59
Cage Rattler (Trade wars starting ? (Yen gains immediately against dollar)) ID#33184:
DETROIT, Mich ( AFX ) - President Bill Clinton warned Japan that its steelmakers could be hit with punitive sanctions if they fail to take quick action to curb their exports to the U.S.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:51
Envy (@Contrarian) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've seen tons of good calls here. APH makes good calls for the most part, but he's been wrong before, and most of his calls are short term. Don't get me wrong, I always pay attention to what APH says, Oleman at Avid also, but that doesn't mean they're always right, just usually *grin*. Many people on this forum have been right on about a lot of stuff, some short term calls, some long term trends. I've learned a lot from all the folks here. I think there is a lot more here for investors than there is for traders, there just isn't that much information posted by traders talking about their every little move.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:50
goldy88 (Allen(USA)) ID#389171:
Sorry but I thought that Bank of France hold 2500t,germany 2900t,italy2400t.The source is le mois economique et financier 1997 official financial magazine of UBS.Let me come back to you as soon as I get the precise date of the issue.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:49
Cage Rattler (Another opinion on Euroland reserves) ID#33184:
Euroland reserves at the end of 1998 totaled $268 billion, 24% greater than Japanese reserves. Consisting largely of dollars and gold, the possibility that this seemingly excessive reserve stock might be reduced poses an additional threat ...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:41
sharefin (Pu'ukani) ID#284255:
I just had a look in it's directory and all of the files are dated April 98
So nothing new just an interesting series.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:40
Crmblr (Fed's Minehan wary of stocks-induced euphoria) ID#329313:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990108/yp.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:21
Allen(USA) (longj re: European national gold holdings) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes. I agree that the combined contributions of these nations to the ECB was 12,500 tonnes. But this is not their total national holdings. Their national holdings, I believe, were and are much more than this. My recollection is that Germany's holdings prior to transfers to the ECB were on the order of 7,000+ tonnes, Italy's on the order of 9,000 tonnes and France about 12,000+ tonnes. It seems to me the table you posted was the Euro contribution sheet, not a full tally of holdings of the respective nations.

The French had indicated that 30% would be the figure. And it is 30.4%.

Very bullish for the Euro and for gold, if I might opine here.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:18
Pu'ukani (sharefin) ID#22584:
Which part of the Phantom data is new?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:16
farmer (LGB's 12:09) ID#341231:
Is the implication here that silver's burst is temporary, and demand will fall if silver tax is increased.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:13
Allen(USA) (El Borak) ID#246224:
The Answer to your question is BCBS of Maine.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 13:03
24K (Gold-Euro-Dollar) ID#81124:
Copyright © 1998 24K/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fictitious news article:

Euro economists wrung their hands in despair this week as the value of gold in Euros dropped, while the US dollar value of gold increased by $2.60. They were quoted saying “This shows that gold has not done well as an investment. The value of our gold now is 90 billion Euros. If this trend continues to its logical conclusion, then the price of gold will be 1 Euro per ounce before we know it. This would be terrible! The value of our gold would only be 362 million Euros. Of course, we could always sell the gold and raise 105 BILLION US dollars. Hey.... wait a minute...”

At this point, they ended the interview and scurried off.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:43
Cage Rattler (@sharefin - thanks for link of Phantom of the Pits - great read) ID#33184:


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:30
Cyclist (MM) ID#339274:
XAU 68 has support,weak week coming up.Bonds to be stronger next week.
My top is 78-80 around the 22nd.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:21
Cage Rattler (We are in the early stages of something that's going to last a long, long time.) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
NEW YORK ( CNNfn ) - In dramatic juxtaposition to moves by another influential market guru, Prudential Securities' Ralph Acampora Friday advised investors to stay aggressive in stocks, saying that the market is riding a once-in-a-lifetime bull trend.

I'd be 100 percent fully invested in equities, the chief technical analyst for Prudential said in an interview on CNNfn's Business Day.

I would be buying banks today. I would be buying computer stocks. I would be buying low depressed Dow stocks like Boeing ( BA ) and Sears ( S ) , 3M ( MMM ) and DuPont ( DD ) . There are an awful lot of names.

Acampora's comments came one day after another market guru, Abby Joseph Cohen of Goldman Sachs, cut her recommended stock position.

Abby's done a great job, Acampora said. I think she's fine-tuning it a little bit.

Acampora reiterated his conviction that the Dow Jones industrials could hit 11,500 during the upcoming year before slipping back to slightly under 10,000 by the end of 1999.

Not only will 1999 be the third year of President Clinton's term in office -- historically the best year in the presidential cycle for stocks -- but Acampora said that the market has already factored in a lot of the gloom that now hovers over traders.

We had a bear market last year and that discounted a lot of the negatives people are talking about, he said. Would you be surprised if Brazil devalued? I wouldn't be surprised. Would you be surprised if there were a problem with Russia? I wouldn't be surprised.

Acampora noted that the bull market is only 3 months old. . . . We're in the early stages of something that's going to last a long, long time.

Although he anticipated some concern over the Year 2000 computer problem, Acampora also said he still stands by the technology sector -- particularly the big-cap industry leaders -- as the primary engine of the renewed bull market.

The IBMs ( IBM ) , the Microsofts ( MSFT ) , the Compaqs ( CPQ ) , the Intels ( INTC ) . Go for it, he said. This market is just bubbling up from underneath. I'm not saying sell your house…but be aggressive.

However, despite his apparently insatiable zest for buying, Acampora discounted the recent Internet sector run-up.

That's one sector in the market that I would really worry ( about ) , he said, referring to recent explosive gains in such stocks as Amazon.com ( AMZN ) and eBay ( EBAY ) . I think that's just a short-term phenomenon in that sector.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:15
Cage Rattler (BancBoston: Buy AOL and AMZN) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SAN FRANCISCO ( AFX ) - BancBoston Robertson Stephen analyst Keith Benjamin
said investors should continue to build portfolios in shares of America Online Inc and Amazon.com, on expectations that the companies will benefit from accelerated internet advertising spending this year.
At 11:58 AM, shares in Amazon.com were up 32-1/2 to 191-3/8 and AOL was 2-3/4 higher at 150, while the Nasdaq composite was trading up 28.15 points at 2,345.12.
Amazon.com shares were higher after the company said it will open a third distribution center in Nevada that will increase inventory levels but is expected to decrease delivery times to the western U.S. by a day. We believe each will benefit from accelerating advertising spending in 1999 as ads become more targeted, which we expect will emerge as a new theme, Benjamin said in his firm's Weekly Web Report.
We continue to suggest building and holding a portfolio of the biggest and best, focusing on AOL and Amazon, and a select number of emerging franchises, with a more opportunistic trading approach, Lauren Cooks-Levitan, electronic commerce analyst at BancBoston Robertson Stephen, said that Amazon.com's priority is to spend to build its brand and put infrastructure in place for higher volumes.
She added that while Amazon just started generating higher margin revenues by delivering leads to other stores, the key to growing profits for the company will be to maintain the high levels of customer service and fast order delivery.
Cooks-Levitan said investors should continue to accumulate AOL at current levels, and expects the company to report its highest online commerce levels and traffic for its second quarter ending December. We believe the 1.2 bln usd in e-tailing sales generated by AOL's 15 mln customers makes our estimated 3 bln usd in holiday season e-tailing sales seem very achievable, Cooks-Levitan said.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:15
24K (Gold-Euro-Dollar) ID#81124:
Copyright © 1998 24K/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
-
From :January 8, 1999 Euro Markets

Coming of the Euro Sparks Debate On What Banks Will Do With Gold
snip

.... And, although the dollar's slide Thursday boosted gold's price to $290.15 a troy ounce, up $2.60, in late London trading, its price in euros languished. At 248.50 euros ( $288.91 ) , the price of gold is just 6.50 euros above this week's two-year low of 242 euros and is 21% below February 1997 levels, dealers said.

snip

The strategy of euro-zone central banks, who still control about 11,827 tons of gold valued at more than 90 billion euros, will depend on price perceptions. While gold's depressed price -- when valued in euros -- deters selling by central banks, it also illustrates that the metal hasn't done well as an investment, dealers said.

Seems to me that when the price of your gold goes down because your currency ( Euro ) is driving down the value of the currency that gold is measured in ( US dollar ) that it is a *GOOD* thing. Then to say that gold is not a good *investment* is a misreading of the facts. Why do you think that your currency ( Euro ) is so good? Because of the 11,827 tons of gold you own?

Nah! Couldn't be any connection.




Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:09
LGB (Silver...India demand) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
2 day old news but I havn't seen it posted here.

Re: CNBC Comments
by: mo102
2254 of 2255
Hi_Ho_Silver_Away_99 this article appeared yesterday concerning the recent surge in silver.


Silver Rises, Indian Import Duty Concern Spurs Demand


New York, Jan. 6 ( Bloomberg ) -- Silver rose more than 2 percent to a three-month high on speculation that demand
surged from India, where jewelers and refiners anticipate higher import taxes.

India this week raised import duties on gold by 60 percent to stem the flow of currency from the country. Traders
expect a similar levy on silver. India is the world's biggest gold buyers and No. 2 in silver, after the U.S.

``There's a good possibility that the Indians are building up stockpiles out of fear of paying duties like the ones the
government imposed on gold,'' said Fredric Panizzutti, head of research of MKS Finance SA, a Geneva-based metals
refiner and trader.

Silver for March delivery rose 12.3 cents, or 2.4 percent, to $5.165 an ounce on the Comex division of the New
York Mercantile Exchange, the highest price since Oct. 2 and biggest one-day gain since Dec. 16.

In London, silver for immediate delivery on the inter-bank market rose 12 cents, or 2.4 percent, to $5.185 an
ounce.

``The government is very determined to reduce imports, so a tax on silver would make sense,'' Pannizzutti said.

During 1997, India consumed about 131 million ounces, or 4,074.1 tons, of silver, according to the
Washington-based Silver Institute.

Stockpiles of silver in warehouses monitored by the Comex, rose 9 percent through the October and November after
reaching a record low of 71.91 million ounces set on Sept. 28. Withdrawals from warehouses resumed in December
and silver stockpiles have dropped about 1 percent in the past month, exchange figures show.

``About three weeks ago we began seeing drawdowns in U.S. silver stockpiles and that silver was heading for India,''
said Vincent Lanci, president of Berard Capital Management in New York. ``I won't be surprised if we see more
metal heading out.''

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 12:01
Isure (@ LGB) ID#368244:

You are not to bad either, SII up 30+% in aweek.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:58
sharefin (Return of the Phantom) ID#284255:
http://www.futuresmag.com/library/phantom/phantom.html


APH
Sorry to have to you confused.
Too many late nights...


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:54
gunrunner (And speaking of trusting the U.S. Government) ID#354133:
Copyright © 1998 gunrunner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Did you know there's a 24-hour Government number that offers warm fuzzy assurances on Y2K? It is 1-888-USA-4-Y2K. They have information specialists who field questions from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday through Friday.

Also, try the presidential council's internet sites at http://www.y2k.gov and the FTC URL http://www.ftc.gov for more Y2K propaganda.

I would LOVE to see some of you Kitco-ites send them some of your queries and report back here!

( April platinum 361.10... Hmmm... )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:54
LGB (@ RJ...Say it isn't so......) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
RJ, please tell me your last post did not mean what I think it means. You're not really bailin out of here for good?

Amidst all this talk of accurate market calls and who's made them, on this GOLD forum only ONE person has been consistently accurate in their GOLD calls. That's you.

Add to this the enormous wealth of wit, humor, analytical expertise, and insider market player knowledge you bring...and it's a sure thing that the forum is losing it's MVP. And this at a time when you were turning freshly bullish on Gold.

All site problems may be overcome. Is it the Hepcat, Gunrunner, et al thing or what?

Please say it isn't so........

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:50
MM (Cyclist) ID#347167:
But the big question is How far & for how long? ; )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:48
Rumpled (IS THIS CORRECT? LOOK AT PLAT!!) ID#402236:
http://www.quoteline.com/astmete.asp

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:47
LGB (Oil Sector Gains... You heard it here first.....) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SII up 30% in less than a month. Isure, you still got some? ( Lor also way up .heheheh )

Been gone a couple days ( which as it turns out Kitcowise..wasn't such a bad thing! ) ...and I see that this call is being attributed to all kinds of other Kitcoites other than the one who made it....so in the interest of self aggrandizing.. ( hehehehe ) ..and after all, I make very few calls here and have NEVER made one of this sort before...

Date: Thu Dec 10 1998 13:00
LGB ( @ Cherokee.... OIL will lead GOLD higher ) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've been ignoring banshee wails re oil for months now, believing as I did that the bottom was not in. The bottom is
now here. Opec will make a move in the first quarter 99...I have it on good authority. The move in oil will signal a
bottom to CRB index deflation. It will also be the precursor for the coming move up in Gold during 99.

After the silver shares purchased yesterday and today, I finally just bought shares in Smith Intl Inc ( SII ) , a very high
value Oil services sector company. I'm in love with this co. with it's almost $2.00 earnings per share and P/E of 14 (
during what I believe is the low for oil prices no less ) , and their potential to explode in an upward move over the next
few months. The whole sector has been neaten down to obscenely low levels

Sideline positions in cash are almost gone. This was the week to make some moves...but there's still time. Once this
sector explodes in value in the months ahead, I'll see my SII and move some of the proceeds into Gold shares, where I
currently have no position.

Oil..... has seen its final days of pain and will now rise. Gold will follow.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:45
gunrunner (They'll want to send UN Monitors to North Korea now) ID#354133:
Copyright © 1998 gunrunner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Ha, ha

The spying by UNSCUM in Iraq went beyond simple eavesdropping. Any and all future UN actions that the U.S. participates in will be more difficult for all parties. Why should any other country trust the U.S.A. after these incidents? Was there ever any doubt that the U.S. was spying under the auspices of UNSCUM? Not in my mind and I stated this so months ago.

You want peace of mind, you gotta pay for it ( see article below )

From the January 8, Washington Times

North Korea Wants U.S. Compensation

TOKYO -- North Korea demanded compensation from the United States for economic losses yesterday, saying U.S. delays in implementing a key 1994 agreement have severely damaged its economy.

A statement from the Anti-nuclear Peace Committee carried by the Korean Central News Agency, monitored in Tokyo, said: U.S. moves to delay implementing the agreement have created four years of vacuum in the development of our self-supporting nuclear power industry and caused a great shortage of energy, thus having a serious effect on our socialist planned economy as a whole.

In the long run, what we have gamed in 'reward' for faithfully implementing the agreement are nothing but economic losses.

In the agreement, the secretive Stalinist nation agreed to abandon its nuclear program in return for two light-water nuclear power reactors and 500,000 tons of fuel oil annually.

But Congress, ever suspicious of North Korea, has balked at providing sufficient funds to meet the fuel needs.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:41
Cyclist (xau) ID#339274:
down we go again.: )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:41
Rumpled (I feel that APH, and RUMPLED, are the only two posters on this site that know what there talking ) ID#402236:
about. Everyone else, although well meaning, are misguided.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:34
tolerant1 (Hedgehog, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:
Shakespeare...always a class act and one nearly impossible to follow...

Down, down, down. Would the fall never come to an end?

Lewis Carrol - Alice in Wonderland

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:34
snowbird (APH If anyone has proven their worth you certainly have.) ID#220325:
Although we have many great contributors here, in my opinion no one on this site has done more or been more consistently correct. Thanks for the update.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:22
Cage Rattler (North Korea building underground missile launch sites ) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TOKYO ( AP ) - North Korea has begun construction on at least five underground ballistic missile launch sites near its borders with China and South Korea, a major Japanese newspaper reported today.
The reported work threatens to aggravate tensions between North Korea and Japan, which has expressed growing concern over North Korea's missile development program.

The suspected launch sites are deeper than 150 feet and capable of multiple firings, possibly of a long-range missile known as the Taepo Dong, said the Yomiuri newspaper, citing unnamed sources in the United States and Japan.

Tokyo was shaken by North Korea's firing of a missile last August into Japanese airspace. It was believed to have been a Taepo Dong with a range long enough to strike any part of the Japanese archipelago.

North Korea has said that the rocket launched a satellite and that another satellite will be launched soon.

Earlier this month, Japan's national broadcaster NHK reported the Defense Agency believes North Korea has deployed some of at least 30 medium-range ballistic missiles.

The Yomiuri, Japan's largest-circulation daily, criticized North Korea in an editorial today for its ``outrageous'' efforts to develop missiles despite a severe food shortage and pressure from around the world.

The North has been increasingly defiant toward such criticism.

Last month, its communist party newspaper published a poster depicting three North Korean missiles streaming toward an aircraft marked ``Washington, Seoul, Tokyo.''

The poster's caption read: ``The target is clear.''


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:16
APH (Straight Talk, My E-Mail is MisterA@interaccess.com) ID#255226:
Copyright © 1998 APH/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good Morning everyone. First of all I post only on Kitco! I do not have a web site, I am not a broker, I do not write a market or advisory letter, I have no clients, I trade for myself only. I could post more often but
I'd only be repeating myself. I try to pass on trading ideas which offer a low risk high probability of success. In most cases even if the position fails the chance of getting out at or near breakeven is there. If someone wants to follow my ideas they're going to have to keep up with the daily posts, just hit ctrl F and put APH in the box. If some one has a question I'll try to answer it in a timely manner.

I've been posting on Kitco since June 96. I've seen a lot of posters come and go, most left because their positions were losers, only a few of us remain. You have to prove your worth everytime you post and be willing to take the flack if wrong. Cobra, I'm sure you do some excellent work with long term charts. But you haven't been here long enough to prove your worth. Yes, you called the bottom at 60, but you were wildly bullish 3 or 4 other times at higher prices and you bet your reputation then too.

The markets,

As I posted a few days ago if the S&P march closed above 1265 we were likely in another leg up, objective 1340-1350. Yes, I do own puts, the market was so over bought I figured the gap would be retraced down to 1265. So far I'm wrong. If the mkt pulls back to 1265 I'm going long.

Mar Silver - long from 4.94, would add to position between 5.05 - 5.10 stop 4.98

Feb gold - long from 290 no stop right now

My pension plan as of 12/31 was split between fidelity select gold and energy services.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:14
Roebear (Underground Missle Silos in N Korea) ID#412172:
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101g.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:10
Silverbaron (A better bottom-fishing chart you will never see ) ID#288466:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Chart for Royal Silver ( Nasdaq BB:RSMI ) :

http://www.askresearch.com/cgi-bin/chart?symbol=RSMI&exchange=USA&size=640x480&months=48+months&type=Candle&color=Graph+Paper&logscale=on&moving=exponential&moving1=50+day&moving2=None&moving3=None&bollinger=20+day&sto=15-5-5&wpr=12&rsi=8&chart=macd&macd=12-25-9&roc=16-8&mfi=13

Location of silver mining properties:

http://www.pennaluna.com/maps.htm

For speculators only, but looks to be low risk, high reward.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:10
sharefin (Selby) ID#284255:
Is it this one?

PJ's Natures Time
http://www4.golden.net/laird/Comment.htm

He's got the same last name as me.


Here's Twocents
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Floor/7953/

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:08
Uncle Scrooge (Platinum) ID#275285:
Down 17% is that right?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:07
rhody (LEASE RATES: I wiykd like to draw the attention of the group to) ID#408236:
the drop in lease rates. One month and 3 month lease rates are BOTH
BELOW 1%. Six month rates are on the verge of dropping below 1% and
one year rates are now what one month rates were 3 weeks ago.

This indicates a huge drop in the practice of leasing gold. So why
would a speculator stop leasing a substance for sale that he must
return plus interest in the future? I think there is a growing
perception out there that gold prices are going up, and speculative
shorts are backing away from gold borrowing. IMHO

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 11:01
sharefin (Lou Jan) ID#284255:
-
Avid Chat is here
http://avidtrader.com/chat/

You'll have to do a free registration to enter first.
And sit and watch for a while.
It's fast and furious when trading's on.
Lots of market calls.
I've always found pre and post trading hours to be more interesting.

---
Selby
I'm not sure - you may well be right.
Will the real APH step forward?

--------
Swing charts:
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Swing.jpg

And the complete swing set
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Charts/Swing.htm

Looks like a record volume day for the Nasdaq.

Interesting that the advance-decline charts haven't shown this last rally.
The nasdaq's are abysmal considering the index has risen well over 50% in the last 3 months.
I guess it all comes back to weightings in the indexes.

Looks like a short term top is in.

---
CPO
G'day....^o-o^
A nice slow controled release of info so the masses get used to the idea and don't panic.
They're playing this game like the PPT play the markets.
You have to give them credit where credits due. ( :- ) ) )

I like the pieces where they admit they've been discussing certain subjects even though they don't mention anything more.
There must be some serious beating of drums behind closed doors.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 10:58
rube (xau) ID#333127:
Off about 2%, still looking good above70.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 10:49
FOX-MAN (Mooney*; I noticed the same thing. I figured people were) ID#288186:
still scratching their head trying to figure out this Gold market!
I know. It's the same ole thing. Whenever something positive occurs
like falling Bond prices or strong economic data, the POG goes down
instead of up! To me, it just means they are still trying to suppress
the price of gold, but it won't work too much longer....IMHO

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 10:45
Cage Rattler (@Mooney* - are we all waiting for contrarian''s favourite poster?) ID#33184:
Then con... wouldn't have to scroll to find any of his posts !

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 10:39
Mooney* (I'm sure everyone is not asleep at the keyboard, Bart must be having some problem with server.) ID#350194:
Others have said previously when this happens to not use the frames version and it might speed things up!
( Selby I was going to same the same thing when I came back on but there you were ahead of me! )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 10:03
Selby (sharefin) ID#286230:
I think you posted Aurophiles URL not APH's.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:49
STUDIO.R (@yup....I've called some bOttOms tooooooooo........) ID#119358:
@ 1 900 poontang.......

got mutual funs? ( or friends? )

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:40
6pak (USofA Corporate Welfare Bums@Citizen/Worker/Taxpayer are Mushrooms kept in the dark & feed horse **) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
THE BANKERS' REGIME
Robert B. Reich

Democracy has turned upside down, of late.

At this writing, the Asian economies continue an implosion that started more than a year ago, as money began rushing out in search of a safer haven.

Russia is teetering on the edge of financial ( and maybe political ) ruin.
What had until recently been called the big emerging markets of the world are now big submerging markets.

Such capital flight is, by its very nature, a self-fulfilling prophecy: the last ones out are left holding a near-worthless bag.

Much of the money has headed to the United States, which is one reason the value of the U.S. dollar has climbed progressively higher relative to other currencies, and why the U.S. stock market soared to astronomical heights last summer—before the high dollar clobbered exports and squeezed corporate profits, causing the bubble to burst.

Prevailing interest rates in the United States play a critical role.
Higher rates render America a relatively more attractive haven; lower rates, a less attractive one.

Thus it is not entirely coincidental that the Asian crisis commenced only months after the FOMC raised interest rates slightly in March 1997

There is, of course, another important center of American foreign policymaking, which has grown in importance as global money flows have taken center stage. It is the International Monetary Fund

A third and final power center should be included in this inventory: the U.S. Treasury Department

Thus it is that a small number of people—mostly economists and financial specialists—are exercising substantial influence over the lives of many millions.

Ultimately, the United States holds the key to all of this. The dollar is king. America is preeminent, both economically and politically.

We could invent a global form of bankruptcy reorganization for nations in trouble, which would forgive their older debts and reschedule payments on newer debt.
http://epn.org/prospect/41/41reich.html

THE CRUSADE THAT'S KILLING PROSPERITY

Lester Thurow

Put all of these factors together and it is clear that the rate of inflation in the sectors where inflation is controllable with slower growth is certainly very low and probably actually negative.

Left to their own devices, those who operate central banks are never going to declare a permanent victory over inflation.

The reasons are simple. If the battle against inflation is primary, central bankers will be described as, and actually be, the most important economic players in the game.

Without inflation, they run rather unimportant institutions.
http://www.epn.org/prospect/25/25thur.html

January 8, 1999

FOCUS-Indonesia parliament demands budget
changes

JAKARTA, Jan 8 ( Reuters ) - Indonesia's parliament, long the rubber stamp for authority

The government's budget proposals was generally seen in financial markets as fairly realistic, given the country's economic crisis, and at the same time trying to provide a reasonable safety net for the millions of Indonesians who have been pushed into a life of abject poverty

Economic growth was seen at zero in 1999/2000 versus a 12 percent contraction in 1998/99. Average inflation was expected to be 17 percent in 1999/2000 from 66 percent in 1998/99.

It looked like the proposal was hidden in one of the budget documents

The idea is tantamount to bailing out the tycoons while there are so many poor people out there in dire needs of funds, he said.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/INDONESIA-BUDGET.html

January 8, 1999

Tax plan targeting offshore losses proposed - WSJ

NEW YORK, Jan 8 ( Reuters ) - President Clinton is considering a proposal to end the questionable practice allowing firms to use offshore losses to avoid U.S. tax liability, the Wall Street Journal said Friday.

The proposal responds to the potential for abuse in transactions in which a U.S. company takes an ownership stake in a foreign firm, and then transfers the foreign firm's losses to the domestic entity to offset U.S. taxes.

The change could have wide application and potentially raise billions of dollars, the paper said.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/USA-OFFSHORE.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:31
Greenstone Gold (Cobra (Contrarian, I take exception..........) ) ID#428218:

That's the spirit.........

Try to enliven your world by telling everybody what you really think of them, and encourage them to do the same to you........

Any speculation on the price of eggs ?

Haggis

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:28
Tantalus (@Envy - read your bond post to ne'er do well with much interest.) ID#317211:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If I may ask your opinion, do bond funds ( in general ) slump as the
interest rate falls? Do better as rates rise? TIA

Ralph Acampora of Prudential just on Bloomberg. Jeez...
- Dow to 10,000 within 2-3 weeks
- Financials to go up 25-30% very quickly
- A new, very strong bull market for next 1-2 years.
- Telecoms, Oils, Manufacturing all great buys NOW!
- Fed's to cut rates again soon
- Y2K to be a minor blip only
All this while Abbey Joseph is backing off to a mere 70%.

H*ll, I hope they're right, but hope PM's go along for the ride...
...to the stratosphere.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:26
Lou_Jan (sharefin) ID#320136:
Would you be able to provide a link to the Avid Chat site?
Many thanks in advance.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:25
BUFFORD (abx shareholders anyone have news on lawsuit bre-x texas) ID#263262:
has anyone heard anything

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:23
sharefin (The Coming Year: Countdown to Y2K's Future ) ID#284255:
http://www.thestreet.com/tech/y2k/584470.html

SEC Releases - Earnings Reports - Y2K Ratings - leper lists - Report Cards - supply-chain risk - Securities tests - continuity planning - Fiscal Y2k - GPS Rollover - Wild Card Bennett

A good read.

Turns out GPS has become a crucial component in securities trading. The Nasdaq trading system, for example, relies on a master clock kept in synch by a Connecticut-based satellite dish, which allows every Nasdaq trade to receive an official time stamp.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 09:06
sharefin (contrarian ) ID#284255:
-
APH can be found here on his website
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Floor/7953/

He's an avid poster over on Avid Chat and very good at what he does.

As to your knowledge of Y2k - I wouldn't want to bet on it.
To put your life or your money down on such an uninformed opinion could/would be a foolish move.

A bit like the shoe-shiner giving Soros betting tips

No offence meant and I hope none taken - just my humble opinion.

---
What-who upset RJ's applecart?

---
JTF
I'll see if I can get the latest swing up soon.
Tech problems at the moment.

Notice the Nasdaqs volumes yesterday.
More than 1.2 billion.
Does anyone know if this is an all time record?

Namaste

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:49
Skeptic (Jack Anderson speech on Presidential Character on C Span 2 is just starting ) ID#280110:
Copyright © 1998 Skeptic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
now. ( 9:00 a.m. ) This Thursday speech to the National Press Club was excellent and should be a must hear for the Senate in the pending trial. He talks about JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis where the fiasco happened 3 months after JFK took office, McMamara said at a press conference that it was all decided before Kennedy took office, and Kennedy told McNamara to never speak for the president like that again and then said he had studied the data, made the decision and took full responsibility. Mr. Anderson also discussed the Presidents habit of always finding someone else to blame when things go wrong. He also discussed Hillary's threat to divorce the President and run for President in 1996 after another Bimbo event. Mr. Anderson had 52 years of press experience in Washington D. C. and was clearly distressed about current trends in ethics and morality in Politics. He also said that when the government lies to and cheats the people, something to the effect that this leads to the people lying to and cheating the government. Why did the press give the President a free ride on all of this during the 1992 and 1996 elections? The evidence was there.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:45
FOX-MAN (Well, the employment numbers are out....378k new jobs and the jobless) ID#288186:
rate goes down to 4.3% This sure seems like a healthy still growing
economy. Are we still concerned about deflation? Is this just an
abberation?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:41
rube (contrarian) ID#333127:
Agree on 2k pblm, I look for a rise in gold due to currency pblm's. I like what J.Dines has to say. E.Janeway long ago, back in the late 70's, taught me that gold goes the opposite of the currency in power. Gold may be going up as a result of EURO.s success. IMHO it will take a lot to dethrone the dollar. In a nut-shell that's what I watch even though I keep an open mind or try to. Hopefully all the talk about such as lease rates, mine closures,forward sales or lack of fwd. sales and limited bank selling will move gold. IMHO gold will ultimately move when the dollar is in trouble.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:30
esotericist (Re: APH postings and why I'm proud to be a (recovering) Kitcoite.) ID#224230:
All points duly noted in this conversation. My POV : it's the insight into the psychological fundamentals of the POG that's the cake.

Timely predictions of the short-term future being the icing. e.g. an excellent recent post was the explanation of the bonds-POG relationship. Even wrong price move predictions based on insightful POV/analyses are educational. I enjoy ALL POSTS - especially those involving levers and mythical birds. Even those from GOGOLD/HEPCAT are amusing!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:29
Dabchick (Thursday's Gold and Silver Lease rates) ID#258195:
For Thursday 07th Jan from data published on their website by Mitsui
Gold Lease Rate---0.60---------------0.70-------------1.00-----------------1.40 ( Offered rates )
Silver Lease Rate---1.00--------------1.75--------------2.75-----------------3.05 ( Offered rates )
Rates are unchanged since yesterday
Regards...........Dabchick

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:28
Gollum (An interesting section from The Great Legend) ID#424140:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The Second Web

In the late nineteen hundred's the communication system known as the internet began to evolve rapidly. It is a good example, almost a classical example of the cycle of developement of new technologies.

There is the glimmering phase where the technology first exists as a laboratory curiosity or backyard hobby but few realize it's eventual significance at the time. Then the initial deployment into the public domain which continues for perhaps two decades or so followed by the rapid expansion into general usage by the majority. Eventually the technology matures and expansion stops after about half a century or so.

It is remarkable that the time scales remain the same, probably because they are related to the length of the human reproductive cycle and the time it takes for a new generation to become less dependant on old fashioned ways of doing things.

Take the automobile. In the late eighteen hundreds there were some glimerings, by the twenties it was coming rapidly into the public domain, and by the fifties it was in cooomon usage everywhere. Or televison. In the late nineteen forties, the sixties, and the turning of the millenium. Or the internet in the nineteen seventies, the nineteen ninetys and the twenty twenties.

It often occurs that about halfway through the expansion phase that major changes need to be made in the infrastructure to accomodate the final process. For example the country roads and narrow city streets sufficient for horse and buggy travel had to be replaced by the superhighway systems before the expansion of automobile system could complete.

Or the internet where it's antiquated system of phone lines and slow modems had to be replaced by the high speed fiber and quantuum communication system, the so called second web, before the process could complete.

Even the quantuum communication system is an example of the technology expansion cycle. Just glimmering's at the end of the first millenium, by the late twenty twenties quantuum senders, recievers and quantuum computers were coming into general usage, and by the middle of the twenty first usage they were everywhere after the quantuum distribution system was rebuilt.

The list is endless. The telephone, the refrigerator, the extracitor, and so on.

It leads one to speculate as to what new technologies might be just glimmerings today as we near the end of the second millenium which will become common place as time marches on.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:28
Selby (Contrarian) ID#286230:
I'm afraid the problem is yours. To believe that anyone on Kitco knows which way gold is going on any given day is a leap of faith seldom supported by coincidence. A little time spent in observing the day to day record would make even the most enthusiastic pause.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:25
BUFFORD (paasf article by herb greenberg) ID#263262:
http://thestreet.com
try free trial for access

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:24
contrarian (Boy are'nt we all touchy tonight!) ID#203137:
Copyright © 1998 contrarian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
OK. You can also put the burden on me.
I say all this hype about YK2 is exactly that. HYPE. YK2 will prove to be a big sneaze and when January 2000 arrives the world will still exist
and the YK2 will have been a huge fraud. But nevertheless, many of the YK2 computer buffins will have made a Killing on the fears of the uninformed who have fallen for it. One of the best marketing tools is to generate fear, as fear and greed are our worst enemies, there will be little disruption over Yk2 but many will profit out of the
fear generated by this fraud. YK2 has no reason to be on this site
except for the fact that many will be bluffed into buying gold in the false belief that they will protect or profit from the Yk2 fraud. I would not buy gold for the so called YK2 problem. Those that do will be sadly dissapointed. What say you all now.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:18
rube (last call) ID#333127:
Only as good as last call, so where do we go from here

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:14
Cobra (Contrarian, I take exception..........) ID#34459:
Copyright © 1998 Cobra /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
to your one sided view, perhaps you don't look at Kitco everyday or go back and look at the previous evenings postings. While I don't mean to toot my own horn, as far as I know I am the only one on Kitco who called the low on the day of the low and advised I would bet my reputation on it as a market Technician or I would come back to Kitco and eat Humble PIE. APH ' while a fine gentleman has made some erroneous calls, as have we all, but you are only as good as your last call. My last major call was right here on Kitco for all to see on 12/23/98 at 20:08 hours. If that was not a definitive call I don't know what is. I don't remember hearing from APH on that day.
CoBra

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:08
MoReGoLd (@OK) ID#348286:
OK contrarian, maybe we can block out everyone ( noise ) , and let APH post by his lonesome...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:04
Tortfeasor (Sorry) ID#37463:
Hmm, sorry I stuttered. This confounded site can be frustrating.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 08:00
Tortfeasor (The future) ID#37463:
Contrarian, a lot of the puffery on this site including my own should be taken for what it is, wishful thinking and playfull predictions. You have laid a great burden on APH now. I will be watching his predictions with great interest to see if he really can make wine from water or simply walk on it. As you correctly note most can only pass it. This year promises to be a lot more interesting for us gold types than last year. I think, not predict mind you, that those who have not deserted the ship will be well rewarded before the end of the year.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 07:59
Tortfeasor (The future) ID#37463:
Contrarian, a lot of the puffery on this site including my own should be taken for what it is, wishful thinking and playfull predictions. You have laid a great burden on APH now. I will be watching his predictions with great interest to see if he really can make wine from water or simply walk on it. As you correctly note most can only pass it. This year promises to be a lot more interesting for us gold types than last year. I think, not predict mind you, that those who have not deserted the ship will be well rewarded before the end of the year.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 07:59
contrarian (TO: JIMS) ID#203137:
Copyright © 1998 contrarian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I don't mean to offend other postings on this site, there are also a lot of intelligent and informed fundamental postings.
However the succinct trading postings of APH are what I beleive the postings on this site are all about. APH has the unique ability of reading the technical picture in a way that many cannot. After all this site is about PM's and other markets which affect the PM's and is not that the reason we log on here? I accessed this site to get information to help me successfully trade Gold to protect what little wealth I have accumulated, given these highly volatile times.
On retrospect, if I followed APH I would have done very nicely indeed, it's a pity that APH does not post more frequently, perhaps he has little time to do so, but I always spend the time to search for his postings and in future will act on them. I hope my comments
do not embarrass or offend him I only state what I see as being
the most beneficial participants.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 07:44
contrarian () ID#203137:


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 07:17
Robh (contrarian) ID#407135:
You are right contrarian understanding of the direction of markets is in short supply. At Kitco as well as generally. I doubt it is malice which but rather ignorance combined with a desire to be in print so to speak which has mislead you. I will pay more attention to APH as a result of your posting

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:53
jims (To Gollum on OIL Shares) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Shares in the oil drillers have already moved. Since the very end of '98 stocks like Transocean ( RIG ) and Varco ( VRC ) have had very healthy moves. RIG is up 25% and VRC up nearly 40%. I think you are right to highlight oil - at least it is being used up and there are no central banks with tons of the stuff to hang over the market for the next century.

Regretably the Contrarian finds so little else of value here at Kitco. While we all have a high regard for APH his trading style is not one that would be easy to follow. Where has he been Last I heard he was long silver from $4.94 but must have been stopped out of a short S%P trade at 1260. He has some puts now does he.

Looks like silver and gold will start the day lower, now.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:44
contrarian (Who and What to Believe and follow!!) ID#203137:
Copyright © 1998 contrarian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have been following this site for 6 months now, and must say there is
a
lot of un-informed information which has cost dearly some of the people
who followed it including myself!. Whether the bad iformation is given
deliberately or in genuine incorrect good faith we will never know but
over time one get's to know who posts information which can be trusted
and perhaps actioned upon.
From what I have learned the only pertinent and accurate informitive and
relevant post are from APH who is uncannily accurate on all of his
postings I have seen so far.
This person is a genius on his calls in Gold and Silver and as far as i
am concerned are the only postings worth following.
If one follows APH there is a good chance of coming out in front
I would appreciate if somehow I can contact APH directly for advice
which on trading the markets and following his moves, or if it would be
possible for Kitco to relegate his postings to seperate section which
can be accessed easily without having to scroll through every posting.
Believe me APH is the only posting to follow.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:42
contrarian (Who and What to Believe and Follow!!) ID#203137:
Copyright © 1998 contrarian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have been following this site for 6 months now, and must say there is
a
lot of un-informed information which has cost dearly some of the people
who followed it including myself!. Whether the bad iformation is given
deliberately or in genuine incorrect good faith we will never know but
over time one get's to know who posts information which can be trusted
and perhaps actioned upon.
From what I have learned the only pertinent and accurate informitive and
relevant post are from APH who is uncannily accurate on all of his
postings I have seen so far.
This person is a genius on his calls in Gold and Silver and as far as i
am concerned are the only postings worth following.
If one follows APH there is a good chance of coming out in front
I would appreciate if somehow I can contact APH directly for advice
which on trading the markets and following his moves, or if it would be
possible for Kitco to relegate his postings to seperate section which
can be accessed easily without having to scroll through every posting.
Believe me APH is the only posting to follow.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:35
Donald (Capital continues to pour out of Brazil at a dizzying pace) ID#26793:
http://cbs.marketwatch.com:80/archive/19990107/news/current/beyond.htx?source=htx/http2_mw

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:34
contrarian () ID#203137:
Copyright © 1998 contrarian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have been following this site for 6 months now, and must say there is a
lot of un-informed information which has cost dearly some of the people
who followed it including myself!. Whether the bad iformation is given deliberately or in genuine incorrect good faith we will never know but over time one get's to know who posts information which can be trusted and perhaps actioned upon.
From what I have learned the only pertinent and accurate informitive and relevant post are from APH who is uncannily accurate on all of his postings I have seen so far.
This person is a genius on his calls in Gold and Silver and as far as i
am concerned are the only postings worth following.
If one follows APH there is a good chance of coming out in front
I would appreciate if somehow I can contact APH directly for advice which on trading the markets and following his moves, or if it would be possible for Kitco to relegate his postings to seperate section which can be accessed easily without having to scroll through every posting.
Believe me APH is the only posting to follow.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:33
Speed (WSJ- Euro Sparks Gold Debate) ID#9332:
-
January 8, 1999

Euro Markets

Coming of the Euro Sparks Debate On What Banks Will Do With Gold

By NEIL BEHRMANN Special to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

LONDON -- Will European central banks continue to dump gold now that the euro is up and running?

Following massive sales this decade by central banks in the Netherlands and Belgium, among others, analysts and traders are sharply divided on

the issue. And, although the dollar's slide Thursday boosted gold's price to $290.15 a troy ounce, up $2.60, in late London trading, its price in euros languished. At 248.50 euros ( $288.91 ) , the price of gold is just 6.50 euros above this week's two-year low of 242 euros and is 21% below February 1997 levels, dealers said.

The good news is that there haven't been any European central bank sales since Belgium sold in the first quarter of last year, said Andy Smith, a

London based commodity analyst for Mitsui Bussan Commodities Ltd. The bad news is that gold continues to behave poorly even though there

hasn't been any pressure from central banks.

Valuation Change

Despite the absence of sales since the first quarter of last year, the 11 European central banks comprising the euro zone could still sell in the

future, analysts said. The most significant change to official holdings of gold is that the European Central Bank is valuing the precious metal at market values, they said. This contrasts with previous conservative European central bank gold valuations in which the metal was priced at varying levels below market price, they said.

Changes to the ECB's and euro zone's gold reserves are now upfront, showing that European central banks don't believe that gold is something

special any longer, said Mr. Smith. This transparency will make central bank treasurers acutely aware of gold's performance compared with other assets and will encourage them to manage their gold reserves much more

aggressively, he said.

Despite these concerns, Rhona O'Connell, a metals analyst at T. Hoare & Co, forecast that European central banks won't sell more gold this year as the metal's price in euros is too low. Regardless of whether one believes they will or won't sell, central banks will continue to lend their gold to obtain interest income, dealers said.

Gold accounts for 14%, or 99.6 billion euros, of total foreign exchange, gold and other assets of euro-zone central banks and the European Central Bank, the ECB's consolidated accounts at Jan. 1 showed. Official gold figures from the ECB aren't yet available, but based on the price of gold and the dollar/euro exchange rate at the end of last year, gold held by euro-zone central banks and the ECB amounted to 12,574 metric tons, according to estimates from the World Gold Council. The council also estimated that the ECB's own gold and foreign-exchange reserves totaled 39.5 billion euros at Jan. 1, of which gold accounted for 15%, or 747 metric tons.

Price to Dictate Strategy

The strategy of euro-zone central banks, who still control about 11,827 tons of gold valued at more than 90 billion euros, will depend on price perceptions. While gold's depressed price -- when valued in euros -- deters selling by central banks, it also illustrates that the metal hasn't done well as an investment, dealers said.

The Maastricht treaty rules that any gold transactions above a certain [undisclosed] limit must be approved by the ECB, said Robert Pringle,

a director at the World Gold Council. The market is unsure about policies because ECB guidelines on foreign exchange and gold transactions haven't

been made public, he said.

However, Germany, France and Italy recently said they weren't looking to sell any of their gold reserves, he said.

An ECB spokesman declined to comment on its gold-trading policy.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:31
Gollum (@Aldebaran ) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Today looks kind of flat, but I have no doubt that oil will go up. The question of course is when? Various economies are still slow and slowing so it's hard to see any really strong moves for a while.

Markets, especially equity markets, however anticipate the future. Which means that when prices turn up it will happen while we are still in a glut with economies in a terrible shape.

If the anticipation is correct and economies do recover and demand does pick up then there will be follow through increases until the next down turn is anticipated.

What this all means of course, is that one can't look at current demand to understand current price. One has to anticipate.

The Asian situation, especially Korea and and the Indonesian countries, was where it all started, and as D.A. says the Korean economy has now posted four solid months of gain.

The US economy has remained fairly robust throughout. The course of steady ships does not have much influence on price trends, so I wouldn't look so much at US economic fundamentals in forcasting oil prices as I would at Asian ones.

Bottom line is I think oil prices or at least oil equity prices will begin to improve sooner than most would think. Right now the prices we see are being influenced more by the fortunes of the dollar and other events in the currency and financial markets than by fundamentals so I suspect we will see some continued volatility for a while as the hot money sloshes back and forth. No solid trends yet.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 06:00
Cage Rattler () ID#33182:
The IMM EURO futures are about double the size of the DM contract, good news for customers, transaction costs and the bid / offer spread are cheaper ... bad news for brokers and locals ... unless volume really takes off which it might ...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 05:58
Aldebaran (Oil up?) ID#240155:
Gollum, You think oil will go up? It's down a bit overnight. And there is a glut, and the producers can't seem to coordinate a production cut because they all need to sell so baddly. I think it will go down, and have been pondering all night as to maybe betting a little money that it will go down. I wish I knew. I suppose everyone wishes they knew. Did you ever find the great legend book? I read your legend posts after I get home, but before I go to sleep. Kind of a bedtime story.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 05:54
contrarian (Who and What to believe?) ID#203137:
Copyright © 1998 contrarian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have been following this site for 6 months now, and must say ther is a lot of un-informed information which has cost dearly some of the people who followed it including myself!. whether it is given deliberately or or in genuine good faith we will never know but over time one get's to know who posts information which can be
trusted and perhaps actioned upon. From what I have learned the only pertinent and accurate informitive and relevant post are from
APH who is uncannily accurate on all of his postings that I have seen. This person is a genius on his calls in Gold and Silver and as far as i am concerned is the only postings worth following. I would appreciate If somehow I can contact APH directly for advice which I believe is the most accurate I have ever seen.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 05:36
Gollum (Oil and Gold) ID#43349:
Foundations of commodity prices

http://www.securitytrader.com/precmetals.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 05:27
Envy (Today's Bargains) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've been checking around for a while trying to find something good to buy, something that's got a lot of bang for the buck. Not too many bargains out there, certainly not in the US markets, except commodities. Overseas, South African Rand are still cheap in dollars, they didn't come back with the Asian currencies. Of course, you can buy Russian Rubles all day long, and who knows, it might not be such a bad idea since it's good to buy when nobody will touch them. During the summer the Thai Baht and the Indonesian Rupiah were good deals but they've recovered a lot since then. If Asia goes down the tank once more, it might be time for a little speculating. Precious metals are still awesome bargains. That's what I think anyway.

NEVER LISTEN TO ENVY FOR INVESTMENT ADVICE

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 05:12
Envy (@jims) ID#219363:
Gold is pushing new lows in Yen. I don't know what that says exactly, but I think it's saying that at least in Japan, deflation continues to be the order of the day. I can't think of any other way to sort it out in my head. Appreciate any thoughts.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 05:01
aurator (Noone will pay attention to the wisdom of ages......Here 'tis.....) ID#257148:

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century:
• Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others;
• Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected;
• Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it;
• Refusing to set aside trivial preferences;
• Neglecting development and refinement of the mind;
• Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do.
-- Cicero ( 106-43 BCE )

Fallacious_@thoughts_R_U&Me_aur@tor

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 04:56
jims (strong rallies in Europe...) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Promting the S&P to jump up 500 points in overnight tradiing. Last I looked gold and silver were pretty much flat.
.
ENVY - hope you are wrong about the continuing deflation - but fear that you are not. The recovery in Korea seems to be for real, judging by the action of the Won and the stock market. The Korean funds have doubled since making a double bottom. Sentiment in the Philipines is much better as well. At some point, however, these stock markets have to get so over extended that they'll not be able to continue. There will be alot of money running as equities fall. Hard for me to be confinced as to what will happen. Appreciate your well written perspective....

For now - its looks like DOW 10000 before Gold 315/

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 04:43
Envy (1998) ID#219363:
My biggest regret of 98 is that I didn't buy Yen when I had the chance. Sat there and watched the graph, guessed within days of the dollar crash that it was going to happen, and still didn't buy. I remember running around saying SELL DOLLARS all over the place and didn't listen to my own intuition when it came time to pull the trigger. Live and learn I guess, doesn't matter if you're right or wrong until you burn the powder.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 04:19
BigFisherman (Envy) ID#258273:
History supports you on this. Gold shares were sucked down with the titanic in '29.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 04:07
Envy (Next Wave) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I'm starting to get the feeling it's time for the next wave. Japan is making moves for new lows, and I continue to see press releases from overseas firms that say they're cutting back production and laying folks off, unemployment is going up, consumer confidence is going down. Contrary to the forum, I'm thinking the next wave will take gold down with it, again. I don't see Asia turning around just yet, despite the news about South Korea and the contrived numbers out of China. It always gets worse before it gets better, and Japan hasn't seen bad yet, the trend is still down. That press out of Brazil concerning the moratorium on debt has tipped Brazil's hand to the rest of the world, she just can't make it with commodity prices tanking, Latin America is eating itself, her trade deficit can't be supported despite the desires of the US. So, I don't see a fixing of the world economy, I see a spreading of it's problems, the wave continues to crash into our shores. First commodities, then manufacturing, then, well, we all know how the story ends. I stick with my earlier predictions, gold hasn't seen the bottom.

NEVER LISTEN TO ENVY FOR INVESTMENT ADVICE

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 04:06
Dabchick (Thursday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates) ID#258195:
For Thursday 07th Jan calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3- month--------6- month---------12- month
Gold Lease Rate---0.74---------------0.90-------------1.17-----------------1.53
( Change ) ------ ( - 0.04 ) ------- ( - 0.02 ) ------- ( 0.00 ) ----------- ( - 0.01 )
Silver Lease Rates were not printed in today's FT

Mitsui data not yet available. Will post asap.
Regards...........Dabchick

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:46
THC (Jim & Silver) ID#367411:
Hi Jim!

Silver is still holding, although the momentum has slowed....playing around with the idea of more silver & gold calls, but the recent happiness with silver is tempered by the pain of seeing TLNOF & GKRVF go to the OTC-BB.

Still too early to have feelings of true elation.....

Good luck to all,

THC

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:38
Hedgehog (for tol1 & Hep ) ID#39857:
You spotted snakes with double tounge
Thorny hedgehogs, be not seen:
Newts and blind-worms, do no wrong,
Come not near our fairy queen.
Philomel, with melody,
Sing in your sweet lullaby,
Lulla, lulla, lullaby; lulla, lulla, lullaby:
Never harm,
Nor spell, nor charm,
Come our lovely lady nigh;
So good night with lullaby.

A Midsummer Night's Dream....Shakespeare.

Off to chow down........wooooooooooossshhhhhhhhhhhhhh *

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:30
Envy (Road to Retirement City, Chapter III) ID#219363:
I love this guy. Chapter's 1 and 2 were hysterical.

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Market/6749/

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:24
Envy (Money Funds Soar in Latest Week) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
NEW YORK ( AP ) -- Assets of the nation's money funds soared by almost $33 billion in the past week, registering the largest increase in three months, the Investment Company Institute said Thursday. Assets in the nation's retail money market mutual funds rose by $12.47 billion to $829.73 billion in the week ended Wednesday. Assets in institutional money market funds rose by $20.09 billion to $568.98 billion, the Washington-based mutual fund trade group said. The rise in overall assets for the week was the largest since Oct. 7, said Chris Wloszczyna, a spokesman for the group. The investments by individuals in retail funds may reflect money received in yearend bonuses or Christmas gifts and parked in a money fund pending another investment decision. The huge rise in institutional funds more than offset a more than $19 billion decline in that category the previous week and reflects seasonal shifts of money by investing institutions, such as pension funds, according to the trade group. Assets of taxable money market funds in the retail category rose by $7.69 billion to $681.51 billion in the latest week. Tax-exempt fund assets rose by $4.78 billion to $148.22 billion. Among institutional funds, taxable money market fund assets rose by $17.10 billion to $519.18 billion; assets of tax-exempt funds rose by $2.98 billion to $49.80 billion. Total money market assets stood at $1.399 trillion for the week.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1s.htm
--
Now that's a lot of friggin money.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:19
jims (Jink Silver) ID#252391:
I have some thoughts on junk silver - most portable and recognizable form of silver. No surprise it is rising in value faster than silver. Personnal I plan to get more - but watch for the drop post Y2k.

Walking Liberty Halfs are my favorite = there is a coin.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:18
Envy (Tokyo Share Prices Finish Lower) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TOKYO ( AP ) -- Tokyo share prices finished lower Friday on concern over earnings among Japanese exporters amid continued volatility in global foreign exchange markets. The dollar edged higher against the yen. The benchmark 225-issue Nikkei Stock Average slid 144.75 points, or 1.07 percent, closing the week at 13,391.81 points. On Thursday, the average closed up 68.10 points, or 0.51 percent. The dollar bought 111.72 yen at mid-afternoon, up 0.74 yen from late Thursday in Tokyo and also above its late New York level of 111.04 yen overnight. On the Tokyo Stock Exchange, shares moved lower on worries about a stronger yen after the dollar plunged overnight to a 27-month low against the Japanese currency of 109.88 yen, traders said. At this juncture, the strong yen is not so good for the Japanese economy because it hurts Japanese exporters, said Tsuyoshi Nomaguchi, a strategist at Daiwa Securities. A higher yen cuts into profits made overseas by Japanese exporters.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0i.htm
--
Closing in on new lows.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:14
Envy (Job Cuts May Weaken Strong Economy) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- Amid signs the American economy finished 1998 on a strong note, a jump in unemployment benefit applications and a huge increase in layoff announcements pointed to a weaker economy in the new year. The job indicators are starting to blink big warning signs, said economist Robert Brusca of Nikko Securities Co. International Inc. in New York. The number of Americans claiming unemployment checks fell by 22,000 to a seasonally adjusted 350,000 during the week ended Jan. 2, the Labor Department said Thursday. But that only partly reversed a surge of 83,000, the biggest in six years, to 372,000 the week before. Claims had fallen to an eight-month low of 289,000 during the week ended Dec. 19. Reports from states suggested weather -- including flooding in the Northwest -- contributed to the big jump during Christmas week. All 12 states registering increases of 6,000 or greater are in the Midwest, Northwest and Northeast. Many cited layoffs in construction. But some states also mentioned job losses in manufacturing, which has suffered most of the year from spillover from the world economic slump.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn17.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:10
BARUCH HA SHEM (WHY IS JUNK SILVER CLIMBING SO MUCH HIGHER THAN SILVER BULLION----- AS I NOTICED JUNK SILVER REALLY ) ID#258302:
--CLIMBED YESTERDAY. WHICH I THOUGHT WAS MUCH BETTER THAN THE CLIMB OF SILVER BULLION. CAN ANY ONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME OR GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT? THANKYOU & HAVE A NICE DAY. GLAD TO SEE SOMETHING MOVING. YOU ALL BE GOOD!

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 03:02
Envy (@neer-do-well) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
One of these days bonds will have a high interest rate again, I'll be buying them then. They look extremely impressive when the rates are good, especially the zero-coupon bonds. Zero coupon's are bonds that have a face value for redemption, say, 10K$US in 20 years. You buy them at a discount to the face value. Nothing looks more impressive on paper than something you can buy today for a thousand dollars and in 20 years it pays out ten thousand dollars. I'm nearing the point where I want to get into gold and silver, but as usual it's not speculation on my part, I just like to cover my ass. I make speculative bets, but not many, and not with real money. I like to make money the old fashioned way and use the markets to keep it, gold seems to be the only good buy out there right now, everything else looks toppy. Buy low, sell high, the game continues.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 02:39
neer-do-well (Envy) ID#391172:
Thanks for the info on bonds, it's been a mystery my live long life, for the most part one indifferent to investment and money as well. Eventally circumstance forced me to find out about money but nothing more vague.

Gold I can understand and I have loaded up. Most people who post here have too, I notice the sentiment is pretty much the same ie, even if the price goes down it doesn't hurt much, youv'e still got the gold. Stocks eh, that's another story.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 02:31
jims (To THC on silver) ID#252391:
Notice you are ramping up silver on the boards...London at $5.25, Globex a couple of cents better. Gold is down. Seems like Europe is waiting for America to pick up the ball.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 02:30
Miro (Oh My God ... Run People, Run ... HepCat Is Back!!!) ID#347457:
I can recognize that writing no matter what handle is used. Hmm. Gogold?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 02:29
Dave in CO (@tolerant1) ID#229141:
FEMA Urges Local Communities, Emergency Services Sector & Public to Get Ready Now for Y2K:

http://www.fema.gov/nwz99/99001.htm

FEMA is obviously one of those fear-mongering, money-grubbing opportunists trying to profit from the Y2K non-event.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 02:10
Envy (@neer-do-well) ID#219363:
Of course, what's bad for bonds is great for gold, especially Greenspan's printing press. Gold might be a good thing for emergencies, but it's definitely a good thing to have when inflation kicks in. It's kind of sad though, gold doesn't really gain value, it's still gold. It just goes up in dollars because dollars start losing value.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 02:01
Envy (@neer-do-well) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My understanding is that you, an investor, want to be holding a bond that has a high interest rate on it for obvious reasons. Everyone who purchases bonds wants to be holding a bond with a high interest rate, it multiplies the dollars better. The reason that the price goes up on a bond while the interest rates fall is because everyone is fighting over the bonds that have the higher interest rate. Thus, there may be plenty of bonds out there that pay 12 percent, but they'll be expensive right now, and they'll get even more expensive as rates drop because everyone wants to be making 12 percent, nobody wants to be making 4 percent. Rates continue to fall, prices continue to rise, rates continue to fall, until someday the trend reverses itself. When rates start to rise, bonds that you purchase today will be worth less tomorrow if you decide to sell because what you paid today for a bond that pays 5 percent is more than what someone else is going to pay tomorrow for the same thing. Warren Buffett isn't stupid. He had a bunch of zero-coupon bonds from a long time ago, and he has since liquidated them. Bonds are toppy. There will no doubt be a lot of folks out there wishing they had money to buy bonds at 10 percent while they sit looking at the ones they paid outrageous amounts of money for that only pay 5 percent. The time to buy bonds is when rates are high and everyone is afraid to commit money. Bonds are very sensitive to Greenspan's printing press too, because a good chuck of that juicy interest can be eaten up by devaluing the dollar. D.A. said it all when he said that bonds would see the tank when foreign countries recover and commodity prices start to rise.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:54
sharefin (Cory's Hamasaki) ID#284255:
-
http://www.kiyoinc.com/WRP107.HTM

358 Days now. The pollyannas are dropping by the side. Have you been in a post office recently? While mailing WRP106 and the 1919 Gardening book, I noticed that the USPS has a count down clock on display.

The geekvine reports that I was wrong about banks, it's worse than I thought. We're reading entrails, assembling small clues into a horrifying picture. The truth is not out there. There are a thousand reasons why companies and management is reporting half truths. Some of it is fear, some is wishful thinking. The geekvine says that a January bank interoperability test has been postponed. Done by December 31, 1998, leaving all of 1999 for testing?

Here's my guess. The backroom processing is doomed. The failures now are little surprises, lost records, missing transactions, incorrect total roll-ups. There have been about a dozen cites on c.s.y2k in December 1998 and the first week of January 1999 for problems. Some are early Jo Anne Effect and others seem to be 99=error situations. Others are difficult to categorize.

According to Jo Anne's analysis, the problems should not be visibile until February or March. We're seeing the camel's nose. It's like expiration date 2000 credit cards. The problems that shouldn't have happened are happening.

Schedules are slipping. Geeks are tired of pulling on the oars. See you around, clown.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:45
tolerant1 (Dave in CO, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...Mr. K..................................) ID#20359:
was Special Assistant to the Deputy Executive Director of the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders;

http://www.dhhs.gov/ignet/internal/pcie/koskinen.html

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:41
Dave in CO (@tolerant1) ID#229141:
Yeah, Koskinen is the name. Knew it started with a K as in Klinton. A nondescript kind of guy from what I remember. Perfect. Can hide from the torch-and-club-bearing masses without plastic surgery.

Heard a different interview, but the VCR IS one of my main worries.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:33
tolerant1 (oops!) ID#20359:
should read midge...yup...uh huh...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:32
tolerant1 (aurator, Namaste' gulp and puff to ya...) ID#20359:
Beneath the tides of day and night
With flame and darkness ridge
The void, as low as where this earth
Spins like a fretful midege.

D.G. Rosseti-The Blessed Damozel

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:27
snowbird (APH- Surprised you are holding puts?) ID#220325:
This must be a rare opportunity. Are you still holding your OEX 630's THANKS.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:26
aurator (Starlight's end) ID#257148:
Tol1
Arthur C Clarke is right, but that doesn't mean anyone's gonna listen to him, anymore than an NZer will believe that the turn of the millennium, whenever it is actually occurs in the Greenwich of GMT rather than our side of the International Date Line.

BTW
I am expecting some kiwi way to attempt to convince Japan that it should take the rising sun off the Japanese flag as we in NZ see the sun before the Land of The Rising Sun.

There is a house in New Orleans, they call the Rising Sun....


Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:19
tolerant1 (Dave in CO, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...while I caught some of the Koskinen) ID#20359:
Carnival today...when they were speaking about the 800 number for citizens to call about Y2K...one of our elite journalists asked if people who called the number could ask if their VCR will work and if they would get the correct answer...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:16
tolerant1 (details...details...details...) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Arthur C. Clarke Upset Over 2000 millennium''
9:01 a.m. ET ( 1402 GMT ) January 7, 1999

COLOMBO — Arthur C. Clarke, author of 2001: A Space Odyssey,'' feels so strongly about people calling next year a new millennium that he issued a public statement this week to correct them.

Because the Western calendar starts with Year 1, and not Year 0, the 21st Century and the Third Millennium do not begin until January 1, 2001,'' Clarke said in a statement received by Reuters Thursday.

Though some people have great difficulty in grasping this, there's a very simple analogy which should appeal to everyone. If the scale on your grocer's weighing machine began at 1 instead of 0, would you be happy when he claimed he'd sold you 10 kg of tea?'' Clarke questioned.

And it's exactly the same with time. We'll have had only 99 years of this century by January 1, 2000: we'll have to wait until December 31 for the full hundred.''

Clarke's view has long been held by people who doubt that anyone else can count.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard, for example, made the same point in 1997 — only to be called the party pooper of the century in newspapers.

Clarke said the psychological effect of the three zeros and the Y2K bug that will affect computers was much too powerful to be ignored.

So everyone will start celebrating at midnight December 31, 1999,'' Clarke said, adding that 2000 should be called the Centennial Year and 2001 the Millennial Year.

British-born Clarke, who has lived in Colombo for more than 30 years, is the author of scores of novels and science-fiction books and the creator of several documentaries.

In the last half century, many of Clarke's predictions have come true, including his then-controversial 1945 outline of a network of geo-stationary communication satellites.

http://www.foxnews.com/

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 01:12
Dave in CO (@fiveliter) ID#229141:
Never fear! I heard a radio interview with Klinton's Y2K point man today. Confidence abounds! He said, and I quote, Y2K will be no worse than a bad storm. And he repeated this sentence at least 5 times in a 5 minute interview so it must be true. Would Klinton or any of his people lie to us?

Good point about the National Guard. Their nationwide exercise of about 700,000 troops, the first such exercise since 1940, is obviously a ploy to get their piece of Klinton's proposed $100 billion increase in defense spending.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:45
neer-do-well (Question T-bonds) ID#391172:
When the price of bonds goes up..the interest rate goes down..and visa-versa..OK. When the interest rate goes down is that good for the holder since the price goes up? And if so to what degree? A friend told me people were making 18% on T-bonds, is that possible? What kind of senario?

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:35
fiveliter (More crazy Y2K fearmongering from well, uh, read it and see) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
On the serious side, some telecommunications systems may malfunction, possibly impacting emergency 911 operations. Worldwide, transportation systems -- air, land and sea travel -- may be affected. Reservations systems may malfunction, radar and other safety-related systems may be influenced and radio communications may be impacted. Traffic lights may not operate properly and toll gates may malfunction, causing massive traffic backups. Police and fire emergency response might be affected, as well as electronic life-support equipment in ambulances and hospitals.

We may find ourselves unable to access buildings equipped with electronic security systems, or stranded in high-rise buildings when electronically programmed elevators malfunction. Large segments of our nation's electric power grid could fail, causing massive blackouts. Water distribution systems could fail. Distribution of vital petroleum and natural gas could be hampered if electronically controlled pipelines malfunction. Even our financial well-being might be affected if automated payroll systems malfunction, banks close and ATM cards fail to work.

All of these possibilities, and many more, might affect our lives for
months, if not years, into the 21st century. The Millennium Bug is a
global problem of immense dimension.

http://www.ngb.dtic.mil/y2k/hottopic.htm

Yep, it's those well known apocalyptic doomsayers themselves,
THE NATIONAL GUARD. I can't count the number of times I've seen them on late night infomercials hawking their end-of-the-world...oh, wait, they don't ever do that, do they? They prepare for civil disturbances and natural disasters, and basically ( except for Kent State ) try to preserve
law and order for us ordinary folk under circumstances of extreme duress.
C'mon, guys-n-gals, you've got about 2 1/2 months of time to finish preparations before the rest of your fellow citizens wake up and trample each other in the canned tuna aisle at the local Kroger's. This is assuming that the April 1 fiscal year rollover of Japan, Canada, and New York State is a noticeable fiasco. Otherwise, you might have a couple more months. Sure glad I already got 2/3rds of my life savings in physical unleveraged gold and silver...

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:22
ChasAbar () ID#340383:
aurator... Thanks, I needed that Elvis post. That's good stuff.

OK, can someone tell me what Northam is? I have seen it written here, but I cannot find it.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:18
esotericist (@aurator. Khamm Dam) ID#224230:
Hi there - Happy New Year, or as we say round here Happy Noo Mia.

Black gold...I've not managed to chase down this story yet. But most interestingly, I am in the running ( 20% chance ) for a new job. In Laos. Running a security operation JV with the Lao Ministry of the Interior. A business that includes guarding......the gold mines! That would be a turn up for the books. Cheers.

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:05
BigFisherman (Another convert to the Euro) ID#258273:
http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/AC/TNKS/Nni19990108D07JKN15.htm

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:04
aurator (TCB) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Rejoice! Aaaah say again, REJOICE!. Today is Elvis’ birthday. born Jan 8 1935, Tupelo. Pardon if the post is a little long, but Elvis and his memory is a metaphor for these times. I hope all will find a welcome respite from the lack of humour that has been characteristic of posts recently within these URLs:


The First Church of Jesus Christ, Elvis
http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/sacred_heart_elvis.html

The First Presleyterian Church of Elvis the Divine.
http://chelsea.ios.com/~hkarlin1/welcome.html

A Shrine to Elvis
http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/41West/Elvis.html

The Anti-Elvis walks among us
http://chelsea.ios.com/~hkarlin1/antie.html

A link between Aliens, Rosswell and Elvis
http://metalab.unc.edu/elvis/alien.html

The adventures of Space Elvis
http://metalab.unc.edu/elvis/oldeps.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Elvis - Jesus Similarities:


Jesus said: Love thy neighbor. ( Matthew 22:39 )
Elvis said: Don't be cruel. ( RCA, 1956 )

Jesus is the Lord's shepherd.
Elvis dated Cybill Shepherd.

Jesus was part of the Trinity.
Elvis' first band was a trio.

Jesus walked on water. ( Matthew 14:25 )
Elvis surfed. ( Blue Hawaii, Paramount, 1965 )

Jesus' entourage, the Apostles, had 12 members.
Elvis' entourage, the Memphis Mafia, had 12 members.

Jesus was resurrected.
Elvis had the famous 1968 comeback TV special.

Jesus said, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. ( John 7:37 )
Elvis said, Drinks on me! ( Jailhouse Rock, MGM, 1957 )

Jesus fasted for 40 days and nights.
Elvis had irregular eating habits. ( e.g. 5 banana splits for breakfast )

Jesus is a Capricorn. ( December 25 )
Elvis is a Capricorn. ( January 8 )

Matthew was one of Jesus' many biographers. ( The Gospel According to Matthew )
Neil Matthews was one of Elvis' many biographers. ( Elvis: A Golden Tribute )

[Jesus] countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow. ( Matthew 28:3 )
Elvis wore snow-white jumpsuits with lightning bolts.

Jesus lived in state of grace in a Near Eastern land.
Elvis lived in Graceland in a nearly eastern state.

Mary, an important woman in Jesus' life, had an Immaculate Conception.
Priscilla, an important woman in Elvis' life, went to Immaculate Conception High School.

Jesus was first and foremost the Son of God.
Elvis first recorded with Sun Studios, which today are still considered to be his foremost recordings.

Jesus was the lamb of God.
Elvis had mutton chop sideburns.

Jesus' Father is everywhere.
Elvis' father was a drifter, and moved around quite a bit.

Jesus was a carpenter.
Elvis' favorite high school class was wood shop.

Jesus wore a crown of thorns.
Elvis wore Royal Crown hair styler.

Jesus H. Christ has 12 letters.
Elvis Presley has 12 letters.

No one knows what the H in Jesus H. Christ stood for.
No one was really sure if Elvis' middle name was Aron or Aaron.

Jesus is often depicted in pictures with a halo that looks like a gold plate.
Elvis' face is often depicted on a plate with gold trim and sold through TV.

Jesus said: Man shall not live by bread alone.
Elvis liked his sandwiches with peanut butter and bananas.

http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/41West/humour/Elvis_vs_Jesus.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------

More Interesting Elvis sites:

Elvis Screensavers, cursors etc
http://metalab.unc.edu/elvis/download.html

Who Killed Elvis? An astronomer’s view. Neptune killed Elvis, and Jupiter was an accomplice.
http://www.robyn.on.net/elvis/essay_whodunnit_.html

Tickle me Elvis
http://www.auschron.com/mrpants/tickle.wav


Some Elvis sightings
http://metalab.unc.edu/elvis/elvchat2.html
and
http://metalab.unc.edu/elvis/elvchat3.html


National Association of Amateur Elvis Impersonators [does this mean there’s a Professional Association too?]
http://members.aol.com/nudeelvis/

The Flying Elvi
http://www.flyingelvi.com/

Links to hundreds more Elvis sites
http://metalab.unc.edu/elvis/elvlinks.html

Taking Care of Business

Date: Fri Jan 08 1999 00:01
BigFisherman (tip toe thru the tulips) ID#258273:
http://wwfn.com/crashupdate.html

The bubble is still inflating. Too much liquidity. I guess the bubbble will continue for a while, unless and until the Japanese bond market tubes.


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