KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 23:42
Envy (Soros Urges IMF Transformation) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
LONDON ( AP ) -- The International Monetary Fund should be transformed into a global central bank to help prevent new financial crises from wrecking economies around the world, American financier George Soros said Monday in the London-based Financial Times. Markets can move like a wrecking ball, knocking over one economy after another, Soros said in an op-ed article. The swings cannot be avoided altogether, but they need to be brought under control. Changes to the IMF were necessary because it had become part of the problem rather than the solution. But he strongly disagreed with those calling for the IMF's abolition. If global financial markets are inherently unstable we need a stronger regulatory framework rather than the dismantling of existing institutions, Soros wrote. To be specific, we need to convert the IMF into something resembling an international central bank. Soros said the IMF should act as lender of last resort, and only for a select group of countries that are eager to obtain such protection. In return, the countries would have to maintain sound economic and banking policies. Countries which failed to meet those conditions would continue to have access to the IMF on terms similar to those which currently are available. But in a crisis, the IMF would be allowed to impose conditions not only on the country involved but also on the creditors.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0t.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 23:34
Mooney* (Closing Price!) ID#350194:
I guess that what BOTH Reify and Highrise are trying to tell us to check-out is the fact that the Jap market closing at the exact low of the day is NOT a good sign!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 23:18
AUwolf (Will euro create new world order?) ID#26498:
Copyright © 1998 AUwolf/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
MONDAY, JANUARY 4, 1999

New currency will mean more mergers and trade within Europe,
resulting in greater global competition for the US.

David Francis, ( francisd@csps.com )
Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

For the first time since the Roman Empire nearly two millenniums
ago, much of Europe has a single currency.

While euro coins and bills won't rattle around in pockets for
another three years, the advent of a common currency - at least on
paper - carries important symbolic and practical implications for
the world.

http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/1999/01/04/p1s1.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 23:15
Mo in To (Is there gold in them thar hills) ID#347205:
Copyright © 1998 Mo in To/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Jack,
Thanks again for the info. I have been doing some checking around to see who is actively drilling in NFLD and came up with a list of the usual suspects: NED ( got from you and another source ) ; NDE;CSE; FLI; MGJ; NOW; FNX. I will be checking them all again in the morning but my computer is acting funny/weird ( I hope there's no truth to the 99 bug ) and I can't get on websites very easily. If anyone has any info, please post, it would be nice to pick up a penny stock ( and most of these are ) with some gold in hand or the bush as it were. Or maybe it was some reporter's fantasy...
MofromTo

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 23:11
tolerant1 (gagnrad, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I look forward to this dialog at another) ID#20359:
time it is taking far too long to get in and out of Kitco...bbml

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 23:01
dirt (I agree, Envy, you sound like a young dirt.) ID#268404:


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:54
gagnrad (Envy, you are a man of deep thought!) ID#43460:
I wasn't going to address that issue, feeling my case was unique. As my father died before the magic payoff age, I could alone pay for my mother, my parents in law and one childless aunt!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:52
Jack (Of the major silver prospects) ID#253302:
Companies like Apex, Pan American Silver, Silver Standard and so on will probably require large sums of money to place their projects on line.
It seems that the few large producers existing have been absorbed by the gold miners or are part of the huge base metal conglomerates. It seems that many cannot really to be considered as silver investments.
Are their any silver miners that can go into production with less than 30 million shares, produce 6-10 million ounces and not owe their soul's to the company store? Ten+ dollar silver ain't with us yet.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:49
gagnrad (tolerant1, hello, sorry to have gotten off subject again.) ID#43460:
Copyright © 1998 gagnrad/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I guess you could say that sociological study is deep background for the future POG? Sorry also I couldn't get you any English language online statistics on Mexico. ( You might ponder the fact that even as we speak, Mexico is enmeshed in a serious civil war against the Zapista faction. ) Will try another time. Here is some background for US and Canada.

Source page for 1997 US poverty stats. Download the PDF file from this page:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/povty97.html

source page for US poverty. There are downloadable .pdf files listing trends.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty.html

Source page re poverty in Canada, look to section 5. Luckily the Canadians' governement hasn't learned about .pdf!
http://www.cfc-efc.ca/docs/00000328.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:48
tolerant1 (kapex, Namaste' gulp and a puff...the word must have gotten out...Ford is on the move...) ID#20359:
The new concept car is an indication of where we're headed with the Thunderbird when it goes back into production for the new millennium, said Ford Chief Executive Officer Jac Nasser.

http://www.nando.net/business/story/0,1032,3232-5491-40202-0,00.html

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:48
Goldteck (BBC New sex scandal for Clinton ) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Monday, January 4, 1999 Published at 01:53 GMT New sex scandal for Clinton
Mr Clinton's reputation has already been badly tarnished The White House is bracing itself for another potentially damaging story about President Clinton's private life, just as he faces an impeachment trial in the Senate. BBC Correspondent Malcolm Brabbant: The story has been an urban myth for many years ... now there's a way to prove itAn American magazine, Star, says it is trying to establish whether the President is the father of a 13-year-old boy of mixed race from Little Rock, Arkansas. The boy's mother is a black prostitute, Bobbie Anne Williams, who has alleged for some time that the President is the boy's father. She used to work the streets near the Governor's mansion in Little Rock at the time Mr Clinton was state governor. She says her son boy is the product of a $300 sex session with him. Presidential resemblance He denies ever meeting the woman, although her son, called Danny Williams, is said to resemble Bill Clinton as a boy. The White House says it doesn't comment on tabloid storiesThe story was investigated by right-wing investigators in 1992, when Mr Clinton was running for the presidency. They say they believed the stories but were not able to substantiate them. Now though DNA testing - which has already caused so much trouble for Mr Clinton with Monica Lewinsky's infamous semen stained dress - could finally prove whether or not he is the boy's father. Star Magazine says it now trying to see whether Danny William's DNA has any link with the DNA polymarkers from Mr Clinton that were published in the Starr report. No conclusive proof Even so, DNA experts say that if there is a match, it would only be sufficient to say that there was an 85-95% certainty that Mr Clinton was the father. That is insufficient in American courts to conclusively prove paternity.
The White House is refusing to comment on the magazine story and says it does not do so on stories in the tabloids. There is no indication when the results will be published but the story is another potential time-bomb for the Clinton presidency. Some analysts believe the President could not survive being labeled what Americans call a dead-beat Dad, a father who abandons his child, especially after recent initiatives aimed at clamping down on parents who avoid child support. The president already faces trial in the Senate and possible removal from office after he was impeached for his conduct in the Monica Lewinsky affair. The latest allegations could further sully a reputation that is already less than glittering. http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/clinton_under_fire/latest_news/newsid_247000/247728.stm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:47
Envy (@Dirt, Gagnrad, etc: Taxes) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is no doubt going to come across like a single guy complaining about paying taxes, but I honestly hope I believe the same thing when I get to be an older gentleman, I suspect that I will. I've got no, zero, problem with taking care of the elderly, heck, I do it now. I've got a grandmother and a mother who need my help as both are widowed, and of course I help them directly. BUT, I checked the amount of money they get from social security, Medicare, and all that jazz against the money that I and my sister PAY for those programs, and it just doesn't add up, we pay much more than they get. I don't like the programs because it disturbs the natural order of things too much. What I'm getting ready to type is going to come across really bad, I can feel it *grin*. My grandmother and my mother should not get money from me through the government, they should get it from me. It is my money they receive, and though I love them and would do anything for them, there is a matter of respect, that is, I should at least get a warm fuzzy feeling from giving it to them. That's the way it works in the natural world, I know it's blasphemy in the US for anyone to have to ask for help from someone else, for people to be dependent on one another. That's how I feel about it though. I'd much rather give resources to people who need them directly instead of giving it to the federal government and having them distribute the money for me, the government doesn't know my wishes, and their overhead is too high, I doubt 1 dollar in 10 gets to the people who need it. Social programs disturb the natural way humans interact with one another. I don't have hard facts, but I suspect there was much more cooperation between families, more charitable giving, etc, before social programs were put into place by the government. If someone wants my money, they can come and ask me for it, I'm very generous. I live in a small town and I know who needs help, the federal government doesn't have a clue, they don't live here. I'm sure this post isn't going to go over really well, so let the beatings begin *smile*.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:45
dirt (Implosion, isn't that how the atomic bomb was denotated) ID#268404:
Does a debt implosion equal depression ?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:44
dirt (Implosion, isn't that how the atomic bomb was denotated) ID#268404:
Does a debt implosion equal depression ?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:42
dirt (Implosion, isn't that how the atomic bomb was denotated) ID#268404:
Does a debt implosion equal depression ?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:27
crazytimes (Here we are folks..) ID#344326:
The suspense is killing me. Gold needs to move starting now, IMHO or gold is really in trouble ( or being manipulated ) My hope is that the big boys that want gold to soar will start to pull the triggers. The equation is different now with the launch of the EURO. I'm no fan of SOROS, but I hope he does want to eat his young ( gold shorts ) Anyone notice South Korea is soaring faster than Japan is dropping?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:17
aussidave (value of all the gold mined) ID#251175:
I calculate that the value of all the gold ever mined is around US$1.5trillion, that assumes 150,000t of gold. could anyone verify these figures?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:15
fiveliter (Banzai! Or is it Climb Mount Niitaka?) ID#341312:
Nikkei 225 -426 on Yahoo. And our dollar is actually FALLING against a currency from a country undergoing a financial implosion. I bet Easy Al and da boyz are going to have more on their plate than they can handle this year in the FOREX markets and won't have the time and resources to be worrying about little old gold. Or silver, for that matter. I think I hear Gollum's big old 4-8-4 Northern firing up her boilers and beginning to hiss. I guess I'd better buy my last 1 oz. tickets for this ride.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:07
Jack (@skinny - It's tough to make a decision with commodiites as they are) ID#253302:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Can't say that I disagree with you about commodities being in the dumpster; they surely have every one concerned about deflation, some even predicting depression.
All around us, we hear of the coming economic slowdown and gold turns slowly on such news.
The market is in an inflation, when it dumps it probably has further to fall than gold and commodities, but there is no assurance. Best to play it safe.
Of the companies that I mentioned to Mo in TO as companies actively seeking gold in Newfoundland, I like Richmont best, this based on its past operational success and good management, but she is not a major.
McWatter's possibilities are based on its fairly high production profile. It will increase in 1999; they also picked up Can $5.5 million on the Minorca merger and another 0.5 million on a latter sale. I think the Dayton Mining holding, which came via the merger helped push McWatters down a bit more than the gold price.
Best of luck to you in 1999 and beyond.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:05
tolerant1 (gagnrad, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I would first off like to see proof of your) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
statement...But the truth remains North American seniors are the wealthiest class and children teens the poorest.

I am completely lost as to any form of reasoning or experienced thinking relating to the elderly and the young as you have so stated them. I would imagine that especially today the elderly who do have savings worked hard for them. And I would go so far as to say they tried their best to provide for their offspring while teaching them a sense of values.

Those that have too many children or any children for that matter should be able to afford those children and not expect them to be someone else’s liability.


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:04
HighRise (Check this out.) ID#401460:

http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/je3tbc/html/sthome.html

HighRise

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 22:01
kapex (And now an AOL poll. Who says they don't ring the bell at the top!) ID#237261:
Copyright © 1998 kapex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


In 1999, will you be investing your money in:
Checking/Savings 302
1.7%
Money Market/CDs 868
4.8%
Bonds 479
2.7%
Mutual funds
25.5%
Stocks 11341
63.3%
None of the above 354
2.0%
Total votes: 17910

Which sector do you think will be the HOTTEST in 1999?
Technology 13173
73.7%
Financials 1308
7.3%
Utilities 609
3.4%
Health Care 1916
10.7%
Other 869
4.9%
Total votes: 17875


Where do you think the Dow will go in 1999?
Much higher ( +10% ) 6431
35.8%
Higher ( +5% - 10% ) 7766
43.2%
About the same ( +/- 5% ) 2270
12.6%
Lower ( -5% -10% ) 763
4.2%
Much lower ( -10% ) 735
4.1%
Total votes: 17,230

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:55
dirt (My apologies, Gagnrad, don't agree with this excuse for a President, for SURE) ID#268404:



Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:49
dirt (I will take that as a comlement, for I'm sure you were brought up, as I was, to respect ) ID#268404:
and take care of your elderly. How is that pronouced, Gag'nrad ?
dirt= its down to earth....

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:47
Reify (Check this out) ID#413109:
http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/je3tbc/html/sthome.html

first session of this year
A Happy New Year

Isn't near, I fear!!

I'm no poet, and I know it!







1

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:47
Gandalf the White (rhody) ID#433301:
Rhody --- if you click on the gold of Bloomberg you will see that it is the Feb Gold futures contract and not SPOT gold.
gandalf

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:44
gagnrad (Dirt, that was rude of me) ID#43460:
I am sure that you are no George Soros or Ted Turner, grabbing all that they can while others starve. But the truth remains North American seniors are the wealthiest class and children teens the poorest. And unless the young are given education, oppportunity and purpose there will be blood in the streets over this issue. Spoken as an historical observer, not a participant.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:38
Reify (PRIEST & OTHERS) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Instead of checking one, like the guy with the false Bloomberg
prices, I check out several-
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/dbcfiles/curcommt.htx?SOURCE=htx/http2_mw
http://www.quoteline.com/astmete.asp
http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm
http://www.quote.com/cgi-bin/jchart-form?genApplet=yes

This way yu can cross check, to verify,
YES?
---------
If gold is bold, and isn't sold
It's up we'll go, or so I'm told
A day in May, will be the play
That's what they say, and I shall stay.
Hurray, Hurray! Away, away!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:36
tolerant1 (kapex, Namaste' gulp and a puff...it is an advertisement...if you look closely you can clearly) ID#20359:
make it out...it is a Thunderbird logo...Ford spent 10s of millions to implant this image in the minds of the general populace...to increase sales of its Anniversary model due out in the Fall of 99...

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:35
DBog (Bloomberg's Homepage) ID#267298:
shows spot @ $289.20


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:34
rhody (@ all: I just checked Bloombergs Online. They say) ID#413307:
spot gold is up $1.10 to 289.20

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:31
gagnrad (Dirt, not such a good idea...) ID#43460:
It sounds too much like Marie Antoinette's line Then let them eat cake. Such words coupled with ostentatious senior wealth, AARP discounts and the like make the less fortunate taxpayers think of Kevorkian in a fond light. Remember dirt is the next thing to compost.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:31
Envy (@Dirt) ID#219363:
Quick dirt, pass me your baton *grin*, I'll run with it for a while.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:29
kapex (So after all the discussion what is, IYHO up with all that stuff about ) ID#237261:
the sun? Is it just an abberation or something of substance? Anyone?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:22
tolerant1 (Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...WJC is a dirtbag political whore who has in the) ID#20359:
last few weeks done everything to suck up to the American people..their wallets have been a prime target...the elderly...children...etc...etc...

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:19
dirt (Envy, I had to do it for 40 years, your turn.......) ID#268404:

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:11
Donald (Dollar vs; yen) ID#26793:
Dollar now trading at 112.75 yen, a three month low.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:08
Envy (Clinton Eyes Long-Term Care Credit) ID#219363:
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- President Clinton is proposing an unprecedented $1,000 tax credit, at a cost of billions, to compensate 2 million American families struggling to provide long-term care for elderly or disabled relatives.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne05.htm
--
I vote we have a tax credit for successful single people ages 20-30, sort of compensation for having to fund all this bullsh*t. But I'm not bitter about it, no.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:06
Doctor Gold (Bloomberg reports the spot rate as rising $6.20 to 293.20.) ID#272136:
This is not the Feb. Comex quote...the spot quote.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:05
ChasAbar (Mike Sheller, skinny, others) ID#340344:
Copyright © 1998 ChasAbar/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here is my vote about the juniors. In the past year I have sold several mining/precious metals stocks, most notably a ten-year position in MNRCY ( Minorco ) . For my *first purchases* of 1998, last Tuesday, I bought VENGF, CAU, CRRS, GRERF, TVX, NTH, PDL ( which is North American Palladium, not Placer Dome, ) and EGIT. Approximately equal $US in each, except smaller in EGIT and larger in TVX. Overall, my purchased stocks, dollar-weighted, were down 88%, and if you don't include CRRS, the average decline was 94%. While I realize that some of these companies may go bankrupt, I expect that others will be taken over by majors, and one way or another, some will be ten-baggers. I realize that I am trying to catch the bottom, and some of the above could lose a significant percentage in the next few weeks or months, but man-o-man, when they move up, they move fast. A great current example of this is HLM, which went from .09 to .25, I believe, in just a few days, and on almost no volume. I wanted to buy it at a maximum of .10, and I did not have a chance. As Steve Kaplan says, If you are going to buy low and sell high, first you have to buy low. Now, I am looking for a different broker, who is both knowledgable about stocks like these, and more competitively-priced than $60.00 per transaction. Any advice?

Happy, Prosperous New Year to everyone!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 21:03
Doctor Gold (Gold quote $293.20 is the spot not the Feb. Comex quote.) ID#272136:
Check it out at Bloomberg.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:56
FOX-MAN (Sorry to burst your bubble, but Feb Comex Gold is currently at 289.70, up .50) ID#330280:
It's high is currently 290.00. This is from Lind-Waldock quotes....

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:52
HighRise (JP) ID#401460:

What will happen to the price of the US Bonds/Treasuries, and inversely their interest rates now that the US Treasuries have competition?

I would think the price of the US Bonds are going to deflate as they are being dumped and the interest rate paid has to go up if the US is going to continue to finance it's debt.

HighRise

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:49
summicron (Which currencies) ID#280246:

are gold backed? What precisedly does that mean?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:47
Envy (Euro Trading Begins in Australia) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TOKYO ( AP ) -- International trading began at the crack of dawn Monday for the euro, the new common currency expected to increase Europe's power in the global economy and eventually rival the U.S. dollar as the money of choice for traders and reserves. Several hours after trading began in Sydney, the euro was selling between $1.1735 and $1.1750. When markets opened later in Tokyo, the new currency was trading from $1.1700 to $1.1748. The day's first dealings in the euro were cautious and subdued. It was still dark in Sydney, Australia's financial district when trading began at 5 a.m. ( 1 p.m. EST Sunday ) , but lights could be seen from some of their offices in skyscrapers.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0m.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:45
Doctor Gold (ALERT! Spot Gold....UP $6.20 at 293.20. Reported from the 680 Bloomberg) ID#272181:
business desk just minutes ago. GOGOLD

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:39
THE Priest (JP) ID#371242:
i agree with your post that gold could benefit here in a deinflational period very interesting post

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:38
Envy (Tokyo Stocks Plunge) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TOKYO ( AP ) -- The dollar traded sharply lower against the Japanese yen as the euro made its debut with little fanfare. Tokyo stocks plunged at the open of the year's first trading session. The dollar bought 112.78 yen in early trading, down 2.42 yen from late Wednesday in Tokyo and also below its New York level of 113.57 yen late Thursday. The benchmark 225-issue Nikkei Stock Average shed 281.34 points, or 2.03 percent, to 13,560.83 points in the first 30 minutes of trading. On Wednesday, the average closed down 1.84 points, or 0.17 percent.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0q.htm
--
New lows less than 1000 points away, 2500 to Envy's projected 11000.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:35
Donald (Billions missing from Russian C.B.; officials are suspects.) ID#26793:
http://www.smh.com.au:80/news/9812/31/text/world11.html

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:31
Roebear ($290 POG) ID#412172:
That's what it is on MRCI, usually reliable...

http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:27
Envy (Net-Mania Reigns on Wall Street) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
NEW YORK ( AP ) -- As a new year dawns on Wall Street, many investors are faced with a thorny problem: What to do, or what not to do, about the mania for Internet stocks. Any prudent adviser will tell you how dangerous it is to try to ride this wave, which has lately broadened from technology companies to merchandisers engaged in Internet commerce, commonly known as E-tailing. By any traditional measure, these stocks typically sell at outlandish prices. One of the biggest names in the field, the book and music dealer Amazon.com, has seen its shares skyrocket more than 1,300 percent in the past 12 months. Though the company has not yet reported its first dollar of profit, investors have assigned it a market value greater than many of the biggest, long-established names in the retailing business.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn0b.htm
--
This too shall pass.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:26
Donald (test) ID#26793:
.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:25
JP (US federal reserve holds $596B in treasury bonds for foreign central banks ) ID#249232:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A runaway deflationary cycle started in Feb 1998. Before that,during the 70's and 80's we were in inflation-there was a dollar surplus. The surplus was the result of the dramatic expansion of bank credit. These surplus dollars flowed out of the US and found their way into the reserves of foreign central banks. The banks then used the dollars to buy US treasury bills. This was funding our deficit. As the dollar got stronger in the early 90's, many countries and companies who borrowed dollars for projects,such as oil or investments in plant and equipment got hurt. Mexico, Brazil,etc all were hurt. Now, all commodities are weak and the commodities their dollar investments are producing are worth less,and at the same time the dollars they owe are worth more. They are having a dollar shortage and the IMF has been trying to bail them at US tax payers expense. With the Euro a reality and as an alternative to the US dollar as a reserve currency,many countries will begin to cash in some of their US traesury bills and replace it with the Euro. What does it mean ? It means that deflation will now accelerate. Why? The US fed for 50 years has been inflating by buying treasury bills and bonds on the open market injecting money into bank reserves which was loaned out by banks to their customers. Now the reverse is true. In deflation the public requirements for currency declines because as business slows there is no need to borrow money. The fed will now begin to deflate the economy by accomodating massive sales of foreign central banks bonds as well as selling some of its own US bills and bonds. What am I saying ? The liquidity crisis is about to worsen and the dollar shortage will become even more pronounced. As the cycle progresses, people are going to need a vehicle to protect themself against this deflation. As credit is destroyed and the dollar shortages worsens, gold will be the savior. Gold mining will become the only truly profitable industry in the world. When the crisis comes to a head, there will be a tremendous run into gold.I expect the US dollar to weaken against gold backed currencies, but in the US it's purchasing power will increase.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:21
THE Priest (Reify ) ID#371242:
290 where did you get this price quote

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:13
skinny (Mike Sheller) ID#287114:
Copyright © 1998 skinny/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mike,
I do hope you are right on the movement of gold. I have seen many times when the economic forcast have not turned out to their predictions. Its like playing the stock market - who knows? However, in my posting to Jack, I stated that I will not consider a play in the juniors until I see a rise in commodities in general. As I stated in my post to Jack, I think there will be a major shake-out in junior mines until the price of gold shows a substantial profit over the cost of production. Simply put, I am not going to put any money on a junior that has considerable potential to go the way of the dodo bird. Betting on juniors, is a considerable risk at best but there is the potential to make considerable sums of fiat currency. This can be done by narrowing the odds. Patience , in my opinion, at this time is a virtue. There is the proper time to get on the wagon, but at the present, things seem to be in limbo. Many on Kitco are saying the stock market is overvalued - I agree. But, we have been saying overvalued since the Dow was at 8000. All comodities are now depressed in value. When I see a movement in upward evaluation, I'm going to jump on the junior bandwagon - whats left of them.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:13
Reify (ARE you GUYS Watching or SLEEPING) ID#413109:
the last gold price, unless it was a mistake $290.00!!!
For Feb future, of course!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 20:13
Envy (In Finance, We Push the Limits) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
NEW YORK ( AP ) -- We did it last year and most likely we'll set out to do it again: Push the limits. Push the economy to new records, or at least begin the year trying to do so. Push for more spending, toys, debt, stocks. Buy cars, houses and computers at near-record levels. Take cruises, visit theme parks. In the corporate world, we'll seek new ways to squeeze out more profits, even selling the company if we have to. We'll make antiques of 2-year-old electronic gadgetry and follow technology wherever it leads. In such ways will we express our consumer and business confidence, defying all the economic demons that lie a few hours from our borders, creating financial collapses, recessions, poverty and social chaos. Only in looking back over the past year -- make that the past decade -- can Americans understand how intensively they've been living as they push the economic boundaries. The 1970s are already a bygone era. If you don't think so, just consider one of the things Americans like to do most, such as borrowing money. In 1970 you applied for credit, explained your purpose, waited a week and were granted half the amount. Today, you open a letter in your home to find a bank solicitation, one of about 3 billion mailed each year. In effect, it is a plea from the bank to please take our money -- about 3 billion of these pleas are mailed in a year -- and it offers various inducements to get you to do so.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn05.htm
--
Kindred spirit, and on the AP wire no less.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:48
plaintalker (PL:) ID#217338:
John Disney; Have not been able to obtain any news about the PL miners strike, an update please.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:38
Donald (Nikkei down 2% on the open) ID#26793:
Nikkei down 282 points, Globex down 3.50. Love these 1999 markets so far!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:34
Auric (Happy New Euro, All!) ID#257312:

The Euro is here. The markets speak... http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:21
tolerant1 (Mike Sheller, Gulp and a puff to ya...The JUNIORS...) ID#20359:
yEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEhAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:17
skinny (Mike Sheller) ID#287114:
So,,, spell it out... whats your point.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:14
Mike Sheller (skinny) ID#348257:
Buy the emaciated juniors like there's no tommorow. Gold at 370ish by May will doubtless be a tonic to them all.

200% gains anyone?

Believe the major brokerage houses at your peril.

Happy New Year.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 19:10
Mike Sheller (skinny) ID#348257:
Barnum said every minute. Even better than you thought my emaciated friend.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 18:37
skinny (The Hatt) ID#287114:
Things in life are basically so simple.
If somone is trying to tell you how to get rich ,Why Is He Telling You.
If someone from a brokorage is telling you how to get rich ,
why is he working at a brokerage.
Barnum said it right,,, sucker born every day.
Try again.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 18:26
The Hatt (Skinny/Trusting Banks and Governments...) ID#294232:
Is almost as bad as trusting the Brokerage Houses that recommend the purchase of individual equities. Does it ever occurr to the average investor that these houses make recommendations based on them holding a long position that they want to distribute!!!!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 18:26
jims (To Skinny and the Hatt) ID#252391:
You both echo my feelings and sentiments exactly.

Happy New Year

Keep the powder dry in the juniors and let Soros sink.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 18:20
The Hatt (Soros beating the drum about Brazil!) ID#294232:
It only means this money hungry misery causing blood sucker is once again looking for more bailout money from the U.S. to get his own ass out of the water. Rarely do I wish poverty on anyone but this is one money hungry bas$$$$ who deserves it! Let him sink!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 18:07
skinny (jack) ID#287114:
Copyright © 1998 skinny/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Have been reading economic reports of the major banks and they are all predicting a lackluster year for commodities. With the precious metals included in their forcast, it looks as if there will be no major movement in the price of gold until the year 2000.
I have been eyeballing many of the junior resource mines and have concluded that without a shift in the price of gold, there will have to be a major shake-out in the mines. I was at one time tempted to throw a few thousand dollars at several juniors, hoping for a rebound in the price of gold. Since studying many of these reports, I have concluded that it is best that I go with the predictions of the major banks and their commodity reports. This year they are predicting a downturn in the stockmarket, although not a major one. They are also predicting a reduction in industrial production. As you recall, at one time, we had a major recession, and Japan did not. This appears to be a reverse situation. I have been able to find a few economic reports of the far east and have concluded that they are in a rebound situation. Greenspan ( to the dismay of many Kitco artists ) in my opinion has done a marvelous job of manipulating the western economies out of severe recession. Temporarily, I am going to hold tight on investing in the juniors until I see a major movement in all commodities such as copper, nickle, soy beans, and pork bellies.
You being my Mine Guru --- what say you?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 18:02
Winston () ID#244446:
The day that oil is denominated in Euros, that will be the day the world changes.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 17:54
Bill El Zebub (Attention all STAR GAZERS...Two Blue Moons in one year Jan 31st and ) ID#261352:
March 31st. Any stock or gold ramifications? PS Mike whats your GUT tell-
ing you too.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 17:23
Aragorn III (Who Cares? and aurator...) ID#212323:
Who Cares?--your 2:49 post was a notable piece of work. Aurator's follow-up was excellent for balance. Well done to both, and my recommended reading for others here.

got archives?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 17:23
SDRer (Cage Rattler-My thanks!) ID#290172:

For awhile there, I thought I was still on the downhill
slalom course! And now that you mention it, one does note that Oanda has the prices tagged to 12/31/98. Thanks again! {:- ) )

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 17:18
Mo in To (Jack's Three) ID#347205:
Jack,
I checked all three and no new information. Ahh well, back to the drawing board and I am keeping my ear to the ground. Can't seem to get on stockwatch canada though.
MofromTo

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 17:02
Auric (The Dollar's Day of Reckoning) ID#257312:

Decent article by Lester Thurow on the euro/dollar thingy. Most points already covered at Kitco, of course. The gist is that Greenspan will have much less freedom to use interest rates and monetary policy to deal with economic crises. http://www.thenation.com/issue/990111/0111THUR.HTM

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 17:01
Mo in To (Gold Down East) ID#347205:
Jack,
thanks for the names. The information went by on Channel 24 so fast that I barely had time to jump out of my seat but no names were mentioned. I will check out these 3 companies ( Richmond, McWatters and Novider ) on Stockhouse and see what comes up. Thanks again.
Mofrom To

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:50
Cage Rattler (SDRer - more euro info) ID#33182:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The euro effectively started life on Thursday at 1.1685/90 U.S. dollars, the level where its precursor, the European Currency Unit or Ecu, ended its life. National Australia Bank, the country's biggest bank measured by market capitalisation, said it made the first official trades at US$1.1747, 1.6110 Swiss francs, 0.7080 sterling and A$1.9190.

I have also noticed that many tickers/sites on the net stilled seem to quote the ECU, for example OANDA, Infotec, etc. Even right now, certain tickers are quoting ECU values ( as of 31/12/98 actually ) . In reality, the ECU was not quoted in the interbank market after the euro came into being.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:48
BigFisherman (bastardgate) ID#258273:
http://nypostonline.com/

A little lite reading for a pleasant Sunday afternoon.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:41
James (How bald headed Al saved the mkts & Clinton, & screwed a bunch of) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
us naive investors who were so gauche as to believe in free enterprise/mkts. From AA in Barron's:

But cooler heads -- and one rather bald one, belonging to Alan Greenspan --
prevailed. Alarmed at the way the bubble was losing air and aware that the
fate of the economy and of the Chief Executive depended on its rapid
reflation, Mr. Greenspan made an interest rate cut in time and then, for good
measure, another. The first revived the market; the second ignited it. And with
nostrils flaring and hoofs flashing, the bull roared back. By November 23, it
had made up all the ground lost and surged further to a new all-time high.
After the obligatory pause to allow profit-takers to take their profits, it went
back on the offensive in December, winding up in perfect position for another
record-breaking run.




Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:38
snowbird (Elliot Wave Commodity forecasts courtesy John Disney) ID#285392:
http://www.ausinvest.net/community/Chris/291298.htm Thanks John for your excellent posts.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:24
SDRer (Cage Rattler --Quotes) ID#290172:
My confusion ( chronic, I admit ) is that THERE IS an ecu quote, believing that they would merge into one entity, 1 xeu = 1 euro...
Too simple huh? {:- ) )

9. A Council Regulation entering into force on 1 January 1999 will provide the legal framework for the use of the euro. From that date, the euro will be 'a currency in its own right' and the official ecu basket will cease to exist.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:22
SDRer (Cage Rattler --Quotes) ID#290172:
My confusion ( chronic, I admit ) is that THERE IS an ecu quote, believing that they would merge into one entity, 1 xeu = 1 euro...
Too simple huh? {:- ) )

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:14
Who Cares? (Clinton - Unconfirmed rumor - FBI Wiretapped Witnesses) ID#189232:
Copyright © 1998 Who Cares?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Rumor from http://www.freerepublic.com. Pretty big news if true.

Remember, my theory is that the battle between Clinton and the
Right-wing is a manifestation of the national gestalt between
borrowers and savers. When one side finally wins, the crash
will begin.
------------------
FBI Agent Admits to Wiretapping
========= In a story that is swirling around Washington DC this very minute, an FBI agent has secretly admitted to Congressional investigators that he was ordered to wiretap key witnesses and political adversaries in the Monica Lewinsky investigation.

This revelation has shades of Watergate according to a high level Congressional investigator. Not only were witnesses wiretapped, but general surveillance was ordered to determine who they were speaking to and what they were saying. According to sources, FBI and private investigators were used to maintain surveillance on phones, cell-phones, and in some case the homes of Congressional Republican leaders.

Deep inside Washington DC, people are worried that this may be the kind of evidence that seals Bill Clinton's fate. White House insiders were shocked and concerned that this new blockbuster is just one more in the ongoing series of revelations about just how far Bill Clinton has gone to hold onto his office. Key Senate Democrats are now reviewing the testimony of this investigator and determining whether they can maintain support for Bill Clinton in an everchanging landscape of revelations and turmoil.

More as it comes..


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 16:14
Cage Rattler (SDRer - waltzing with wolves? or sheep?) ID#33182:
ECU or Euro quotes vs dollar on 1 Jan varied according to the interbank player quoting to you. Remember that there is not an 'official' rate for a currency, merely a range of quotations offered. Also spreads widened considerably at the time. I know of quotes for ECU and Euro vs the dollar that were the same. At one stage ECU was 1.1685 vs dollar. EUR opened in Sydney at around 1.1733/44 which would put it on par with your ECU quote.

There was some aritrage immediately after the locking of rates due to the components of the ECU vs EUR - most notably cable ( sterling ) .

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:59
Selby (fiveliter) ID#286230:
Copyright © 1998 Selby/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As I understand the situation there are now very few Kerosene heater dealers in eastern Canada. Apparently there was land rush for them about 15 years ago and everybody who wanted one bought one. Just a few people without natural gas furnaces are buying them plus a lot of people with year long memories in Quebec. As far as I know there is only 1 dealer in Toronto a city of about 4 million and now sitting under about 15-20 inches of snow. The model changes are the result of some people dying last year during the Ice Storm. Last I heard lots of peanut butter available around here. Since I'm allergic to it I don't keep up to date.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:56
SDRer (Waltzing with wolves...watch your wallet...) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Friday, January 1, 1999
1 Gold ( oz. ) = 246.804 Euro
1 Gold ( oz. ) = 245.734 ECU

1 ECU = 1.1725 US Dollar
1 Euro = 1.1674 US Dollar

1 Euro = 1.9558 German Mark
1 ECU = 1.9594 German Mark

1 Euro = 132.624 Japanese Yen
1 ECU = 132.844 Japanese Yen

1 Euro = 9.6648 Chinese Yuan Renminbi
1 ECU = 9.7070 Chinese Yuan Renminbi

One can not but wonder, What happened to 1 XEU = 1 Euro?
Or was another layer of obfuscation just too tempting to resist?
Or is there a BIG problem in the system and this is a feeble effort to 'cut some slack'? mmmmm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:47
fiveliter (Selby) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You mean there's actually a black market in kerosene heaters? What's next, black markets in Dixie cups and Jiffy peanut butter? Oh wait, I forgot, many US schools HAVE banned peanut butter and other peanut products from school grounds because a few kids are allergic to them and well, it just wouldn't be fair to let the other kids enjoy their PBJ's. Eventually, there will probably be guys in raincoats lurking outside playgrounds going: Psst. Kid. Over here. I got some pre-ban Peter Pan. Both Crunchy AND Smooth. Tell your friends. The Nanny State is getting a little ridiculous, isn't it? Also kinda scary, if you think about it.
Update: A toasty 76 deg F at the 4 hour mark. Time for shutdown. The Kero-Sun RC-41 has proven itself under realistic conditions. A few more of these babies might not be a bad idea. You never know.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:44
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Mr. Poole, she began,) ID#20359:
in a very businesslike voice, Ive been appointed your official guide and -let's say-mentor. My qualifications-I've specialized in your period-my thesis was'The Collapase of the Nation-State, 2000-50.' I believe we can help each other in many ways.

Dr. Indra Wallace from 3001, Arthur C. Clarke-The Final Odyssey

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:44
Cage Rattler (Y2K: The Suburban Survivalists (Sunday Times of London)) ID#33182:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If the world is going to end on January 1, 2000, reason some residents of leafy London, they had better get their shopping done early. When the microchips are down and civilisation collapses under the millennium bug, nobody wants to be short of pasta and sun-dried tomatoes.

So last month, 10 neighbours in St John's Wood in north London gathered in the living room of a local priest's home to plan their survival strategy. Various guests from further afield were invited, including Nicholas Halbury of the Institute for Social Inventions, a green think tank, Erica Lauber, author of a book on organic gardening, a couple of bug activists from Manchester and Brian Blake, the emergency planning officer of Westminster city council.

As life in the metropolis bustled on around them, they envisaged how it all might soon descend into chaos. In a year's time, predict the doomsayers, planes will fall from the sky, cash machines will stop dispensing, supermarkets will shut and Coronation Street will come to an end - all because computer software cannot cope with the change of century.

Others say fears about the bug - also called the Y2K problem - are millennial fever gone mad; there may be glitches, but plants will still grow, birds will still sing and Tesco will still stock ready meals for two. Teotwawki - The End Of The World As We Know It - will not happen.

We've got a problem but we don't know what the effects will be, Blake told the meeting. Having considered the evidence, the neighbours in the group drew a simple conclusion: they would rather be safe than sorry. They are going to stockpile food.

The St John's Wood Millennium Community Council, as the group now calls itself, will make its first visit to a north London wholesaler this month; the Rev John Papworth, one of the group's members, already has reserves of wood, candles, torches and dried fruit stored away at his home.

Two days after the St John's Wood meeting, Paul Swann called on his neighbours in Islington, north London, and also established a community preparedness group. It decided to produce a newsletter about the millennium bug. Word was spreading fast.

In Terrington, a village in North Yorkshire, Mike Stampfer was ahead of the game. As the owner of a graphic design company, he had made it his business to find out about the impact of the bug. Research over nine months had convinced him that companies were inadequately prepared and, unimpressed by official reassurances, he recently gathered locals together in the village hall.

People thought I was mad or trying to use this as a way to make money, he said. But not any more. With a fuller understanding of the threat, the locals have formed a committee to stockpile food. Stampfer already has some 25-litre cans to store water. I've been increasing my food reserves and I'm thinking about getting a generator, he added.

Over the past 30 years computers have become the nervous system of modern prosperity. Everything from the lottery to pensions relies on millions of tiny chips.

Years ago it was decided - to save time, space and money - that software running those silicon brains would record just the last two digits of each year. So in the year 2000, computers will think it is 00: year zero.

Suddenly ordinary people are beginning to remember, as one commentator put it, that the last time the West put this much faith in its own technology, it hit an iceberg and sank.

NATURALLY it is out in the wild west of the World Wide Web that the prophets of computer doom are most at home. Be prepared for economic and social collapse, say various web sites, buy your food stocks now. Click here to order.

The Christian Preparedness group offers to supply enough staples to feed a family of five for a year for about £1,000. An organisation called Y2K Retreats offers New! Organic Emergency Food Kits. And the Y2K Grub Company offers truckload quantities of grain and beans.

Who needs a truckload of beans? Jan B, a 25-year-old housewife from Texas, for one. Jan, who did not wish her full name to be used, is the organiser for 50 suburban middle-class families around Dallas who recently bought 80,000lb of wheat, soya beans and rice. They are splitting up the bulk purchase for storage through the uncertain days ahead.

I'm not saying this is the end of the world, said Jan, but we will begin to trickle into an era of disruption.

Against the derision of sceptics, the American survivalists have also stocked their bunkers with an arsenal of uncomfortable answers: the Federal Reserve is planning to order an extra $50 billion, fearing a run on banks at the millennium; the US Strategic Command is unsure whether computers controlling nuclear weapons will be affected or not; Alliant Energy, a utility in Wisconsin, is advising its customers to buy generators; and on Wall Street, Ed Yardeni, chief economist of Deutsche Bank Securities, has publicly said there is a 70% likelihood that the millennium bug will cause a global recession.

Yardeni believes that the authorities have failed to give priority to the most urgent problems. If the lights go out, he said last week, we won't even know if we have a Year 2000 problem in other systems.

Such apocalyptic pronouncements tend to overshadow official, less dramatic pleas for calm. We are doing everything we can to ensure essential services are not threatened, said a spokesman for Downing Street last month. The utilities regard the risk of disruption as minor.

However, cracks in the official facade are beginning to show. Gwynneth Flower, director of Action 2000, a government agency set up to tackle the bug, was reported to be advising people to buy two weeks' emergency supply of tinned food, biscuits and long-life milk in case there are shortages at the start of the new millennium. The government hastily clarified Flower's advice as merely a sensible precaution during the lengthy public holiday to mark the year 2000.

Whatever the truth, Action 2000 has admitted that about a third of Britain's larger companies have already suffered disruption because of the bug. While Don Cruickshank, chairman of Action 2000, declared that nine out of 10 larger companies were on course to fix their computer systems in time, he also conceded that there would still be sand in the machine of the economy.

Sand or boulders? Even large organisations still do not know exactly what is going to happen. In the next week or two Sainsbury, the supermarket chain which has expended much effort on the bug, will reopen a branch in Exebridge, near Exeter, that has been superseded by a larger store nearby.

The lights will go on, the freezers will be set to chill, the bread ovens will be switched on and the burglar alarm set. There will be no customers. Instead, Sainsbury technicians will use gadgets called Delta T probes to locate embedded chips in all the systems and advance the internal clocks to near midnight on 31.12.99. Then they will wait to see what happens.

THE suburbs of Durham are not known as badlands of desolation. Shops, roads, telecommunications are all at hand; it is hard to envisage the locals scavenging for food like extras out of Terminator or some other apocalyptic film of the future.

However, that has not stopped David Walton from buying a wood-burning stove and a second-hand generator to cope with the fallout from the bug; he also intends to buy enough food to last his family a month. Walton is no crank: he is an adviser to Taskforce 2000, the predecessor to Action 2000 set up by the previous government.

Like many others, he does not wish to be alarmist. But he takes the pragmatic view that if there is a problem, taking precautions is only sensible. There might very well be some sort of disruption to the food supply and energy distribution, he said. It makes sense to make provision.

The logic is hard to fault, agrees Briony Williams, a scientist at at Edinburgh University. Already her home in West Lothian is filled with enough tinned victuals to keep her and her husband, a civil engineer, going for up to a month.

Aren't they a bit early to stockpile? No, argue some observers, because if the effects of the bug are already being felt, they could multiply rapidly when the financial year changes in April, let alone in 2000.

Williams is having a small cylinder-fired gas heater installed for use if main electricity and gas supplies fail. She does not see her precautions as panicky or foolish. I'm buying in lots of my favourite foods so if I'm wrong, I'll just eat it anyway, she said.

Embedded deep in this psychology is a timebomb all of its own. If stockpiling and the building of survivalist retreats move beyond the concerns of a few and into the mainstream, the effects could be devastating, bug or no bug. Sainsbury is planning to distribute a leaflet to its customers reassuring them about the bug. It is also intended to discourage panic buying, said a spokeswoman. We are aware that this might be a temptation that could lead to problems.

Either way, behind the scenes the authorities are worried. At the Emergency Planning College, an agency of the Home Office, courses on millennium management are given the highest priority. Most local authorities and many owners of stadiums and public forums have sent representatives to learn how to control crowds if the bug does cause chaos.

One MP who has helped to shape the government's millennium bug strategy admitted that he would be taking precautions.

I wouldn't travel by air in the days around the millennium, he said. Too many parts of an aeroplane are controlled by time-sensitive devices. There are also serious worries about the emergency services - even if their generators and water and gas supplies work, they could find their staff are unable to get into work if the transport network fails.

Some companies, according to one local authority's emergency planning officer, are preparing to have engineers available on bicycles in case other transport fails.

Publicly, the Cabinet Office says a 10-day new millennium holiday will give most organisations time to discover and solve problems if they have not done so already. These people who are stocking up on food are jumping the gun, said a spokesman.

Such words, however, may not be enough. According to the managing director of a company that researches trends in the computer industry, the authorities have done too little too late. And just in case Teotwawki is only a year away, the executive, who asked not to be named, has bought a house in a remote part of Devon.

I've got a storage area that will hold enough for about a year, he said last week. There is a garden to grow our own food in and the area has its own supply of fresh water. If cash proves useless, he plans to barter. I must sound like a nutcase.

He hopes to move in during the next few weeks. By then there may be fewer than 350 days left to what will be either a computer crash of cataclysmic proportions or a whimper that leaves some people wondering what on earth they are going to do with that truckload of beans.



Bug bites

The millennium bug has already had some effect on numerous organisations, according to Action 2000

Halifax building society sent out letters to customers informing them of new policies that were valid from 1999 to 1900

An oil company found a dockside crane would not operate because an embedded chip thought it was overdue a technical inspection

Canterbury Cathedral has encountered problems with booking tourist visits because its computer system could not cope with dates in 2000

An NHS trust discovered its computers would not process appointments after December 1999

Source: Sunday Times of London

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:38
Cage Rattler (Euro raises spectre of war and ruin - article follows (bad link before)) ID#33182:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Helmut Kohl, the former German chancellor who forced through the European monetary union ( Emu ) , once said it was a question of peace or war. He was right: the euro undermines the three pillars that have brought an unprecedented era of peace and stability to western Europe.
Those pillars - guaranteed by the Atlantic alliance, itself intended to be torn apart by the Europhiles - have been economic prosperity, democratic legitimacy and the principle of non-interference by one country in the affairs of another. All are targeted for destruction by the euro.

The drive to create monetary union has already done great economic damage. Countries adopting the euro have an average unemployment rate twice as high as Britain's. The three biggest euroland countries have substantial budget deficits, despite crippling tax burdens. Britain has a budget surplus and much lower taxes.

Euroland's public debt ratio is almost double Britain's. Euroland's public sector pensions systems are bankrupt, despite enormously high social security contributions. Euroland and Japan are the sick men of the developed world.

Britain, despite the slowdown in growth it faces over the next year or two, is in a much stronger economic position. For that, as Tony Blair has acknowledged, we have to be thankful to Lady Thatcher - and to the foreign exchange speculators who forced us out of the exchange-rate mechanism ( ERM ) that preceded the introduction of the euro. Leaving the ERM made possible, via a British-oriented monetary policy, a return to financial strength and economic progress. Why has our example not been followed?

Befuddled by the propaganda of monetary union, the people of euroland have allowed themselves to be led like lambs to the slaughter. They have not learnt the lesson of the ERM collapse that only independent, nationally oriented monetary policies can preserve growth and employment and avoid a public finance disaster. Instead they have ensured that the next time a one-size-fits-all monetary policy creates economic havoc, there will be no way out.

Will it not be possible for countries in difficulty to leave euroland, just as Britain left the ERM? No. If the single, Franco-German oriented monetary policy sooner or later causes recession, unemployment and swollen government deficits, firms and ordinary people in the afflicted countries will face bankruptcy if they leave.

Why? Because everybody's debts will be in euros. For the unfortunate family in Spain, Ireland or Finland, for example, recreating their own currencies to get out of euroland would force their burden of debt to shoot up if the currency fell against the euro.

By contrast, leaving the ERM was a great relief to homeowners in Britain because it allowed British interest rates to fall. It did not matter that sterling initially went down against the German mark because the British debts were in sterling.

Thus the euro puts the peoples of the economic colonies entirely at the mercy of the Franco-German political and bureaucratic elites who really run Europe. Once in euroland, financial collapse looms for the so-called peripheral countries - everybody except the components of the original empire of Charlemagne - unless the elites agree to force the European central bank to bail them out.

That is what they will do - but only if the colonies sign on the dotted line of a new treaty giving the elites direct political and legal authority, as well as economic dominion, over them. In short, the euro spells danger for the economic prosperity of its peripheral members - and the end also of national independence.

EMU is intended to destroy the nation and to create an empire. This is a double disaster. The empire will not be based on freely given assent and allegiance to a set of democratic, national political institutions. It will destroy those institutions.

In their place, its anti-democratic dynamic will foster a set of ugly nationalisms feeding on race, language and religion. Externally as well as internally, the European empire will be a dangerously negative force.

------
Bernard Connolly was head of the ERM and Monetary Policy Division of the European commission in Brussels for eight years and is the author of The Rotten Heart of Europe

Source: Times of London

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:34
Cage Rattler (Euro raises spectre of war and ruin) ID#33182:
Sunday Times of Londo: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/01/03/stifocnws01003.html?1079231

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:34
Jack (@Mo in TO and New Foundland) ID#253298:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

For info only: Richmont Mines has been producing gold at their Nugget Pond Mine for over 2 years now. Richmont is a Quebec gold miner has been profitable for six years and looks to be going on its seventh straight year of profitability. See their web site http://www.richmont-mines.com
Also McWatters Mining is in the process of taking on a 50% interest on the Hammerdown Gold Property owned by Major General Resources who is primarily an exploration company. Cost are reported to be low. Additionally Novider is very active on exploration projects in New Foundland. If you get some more info on New Foundland please post.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:30
Selby (Mooney the Master of the 3rd Way) ID#286230:
Not up- not down-just the same-- and so they were. Things are to be different next year. Lets hope so.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:30
2BR02B? (Mooney) ID#266105:

The germane song is Visions of Johanna By B. Dylan
from his '66 Blonde on Blonde album.

'The ghost of electricity howls in the bones of her face...'

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:26
Selby (fiveliter ) ID#286230:
Sounds like the same heaters . The 1998 Kero-World version has been modified to shut off with a slight nudge and don't actually have to come close to tipping. Also the units now produce their rated BTU's and shut off if the wick is retracted to lower their out put. Older reconditioned models are still available and I have read that US models are entering the Montreal market via the black market.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:26
Mooney* (1998 Prognostications - Prizes Anyone?) ID#350194:
Copyright © 1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BTW - Before we are too far into '99 to care anymore, are there any Kitco 'virtual reality' prizes to be handed out for best 1998 predictions? And do I get a booby prise for this near miss from Nov. 21? Huh? Do I, Do I, Huh?
( Didn't get enough Christmas presents I guess, and that old North American greed factor must be acting as a monkee on my back ;- ) ) And the crowd says, Close but no Clinton cigar for you - Mooney.
Here it Is:
Date: Sat Nov 21 1998 12:47
Mooney* ( Gold's 1998 Closing Price ) ID#350194:
Copyright © 1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Early this morning Selby and Auric and perhaps others ( aurator? ) were discussing
price predictions of Gold. Conclusion: - One guess is as good as another. Most of
the time this is a fact. Even a reasoned estimate is still a guess due to the fact that
NO ONE is privy to ALL the necessary inputs to the equation of a future price
whether it be two days from now or two months from now. Beyond two months, is,
let's face it, just an out and out quess. There is at the present moment, however, one
impressive and obvious trend in price. Whether this is out and out manipulation or
just the counterbalancing of the many positives and negatives daily affecting the price
I will not speculate in this post. The obvious trend that I refer to at present is a stable
price. Look at the weekly closing prices, ( quoted from Captain Bill's Privateer Gold
Commentary of Nov. 13,1998 found at http://www.the-privateer.com/gold6.html ) ,
since Sept. 11 1998.
Sept. 11 - $US 294.40
Sept. 18 - $US 291.40
Sept. 25 - $US 293.70
Oct. 02 - $US 300.50
Oct. 09 - $US 296.30
Oct. 16 - $US 300.00
Oct. 23 - $US 292.70
Oct. 30 - $US 293.70
Nov. 06 - $US 294.00
Nov. 13 - $US 296.50
Nov. 20 - $US 295.60 ( from Kitco )
The final close of 1997: $US 289.90

Based on the above it would seem a fairly safe bet that, unless something
catastrophic happens, Gold will close 1998 safely in its box somewhere between
$US 290 - $US 300.

OK. So It closed 1998 at $288. No cigar - but D__N Close!
Next Prediction - Since 1997 cloed at $289.90 and 1998 closed at $288.00 1999 should close very close to $290. also, Right? Wrong! I predict here and now, Jan. 3 1999, that Gold will close 1999 well above $350.US, ( Trying to be conservative in my thinking these days folks ) , but as we know any prediction beyond two months is an out and out guess, so step right up!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:19
SDRer (Trader's Treasure? (Or how to 'repair' European banks?)) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

BUY xpt in ECU---

Saturday, January 2, 1999
1 Platinum ( oz. ) = 309.727 ECU
1 ECU ( XEU ) = 0.003229 Platinum ( oz. ) ( XPT )
Median price was 307.889 / 309.727 ( bid/ask ) .
Estimated price based on daily US dollar rates.
Classic 164 Currency Converter © 1997-1998 by OANDA, Inc.

SELL xpt in EUR--
Saturday, January 2, 1999
1 Platinum ( oz. ) = 311.076 Euro
1 Euro ( EUR ) = 0.003215 Platinum ( oz. ) ( XPT )
Median price was 309.233 / 311.076 ( bid/ask ) .
Estimated price based on daily US dollar rates.
Classic 164 Currency Converter © 1997-1998 by OANDA, Inc.

SOMEBODY is going to enjoy a very profitable exchange!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:11
fiveliter (Selby, plus fiveliter's weekly Y2K rant) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The company that makes them is called Toyotomi and they're available from www.msiwix.com in the US. They're UL approved and appear to be high quality units. My RC-41's were shipped promptly but who knows when the shortages will appear. My remaining Aladdin lamps have been on backorder since mid November and the distributer now expects them mid January. He said he'd talked to Aladdin about increasing production but apparently they didn't listen. I think there will be a whole lot of surprised and then angry people in Sept/Oct when they realize that there are no more units to be had *anywhere* in time. Today's local paper had a typical Y2K
piece complete with a half page photo of a Vietnam vet in full camo standing in front of the storage unit he had to rent to store all of his survival gear. The rest of the story was OK but not too in depth and most people will just see the photo and headline and think crazy end of the world militia nutcase and not even bother to read about the upscale businessman who's going to treat his swimming pool water for drinking to provide for his family's needs. Or the RN who's buying gas masks in case of widespread fires. Etc. Sad, really, since almost anyone can prepare enough to see them through all but the worst cases but they won't listen ( I know, I've tried ) to even low key presentations backed up by Senate testimony and GAO reports. They smirk and say yeah, sure or at most I'll worry about that in December and then go back to talking about football or Bill and Monica or how the Dow Jones bull market will last forever. Whatever. Darwinian selection in action, I suppose.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:03
Cage Rattler (Financier Soros says Brazil a big worry at moment) ID#33182:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
RIO DE JANEIRO, Jan 3 ( Reuters ) - Billionaire financier George Soros said in an interview published Sunday that Brazil was the big headache for the financial community at the moment, but that Russia and Indonesia were worse off overall.

``Brazil is in the eye of the storm. It is the most problematic situation in the world in the short term,'' Soros told Brazilian weekly news magazine Veja.

Soros, who runs some of the most profitable investment funds in the world, said the Brazilian government was trying to manage the crisis, but it might not have enough Congressional support to push its austerity plan through.

``This is today a major worry in the international financial community, although in a broader sense, I would have to say that Russia and Indonesia are certainly in a worse situation.''

Brazil, in its most dire economic position in years, was brought to the brink of a currency devaluation after billions of dollars in foreign capital fled the country on widespread panic about emerging markets triggered by Russia's financial crisis in August.

The International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) has stepped in with an emergency $41 billion credit line to stem the dollar outflow. But to rebuild investor confidence and meet targets agreed with the IMF, Brazil has get a tough fiscal reform package through its notoriously cranky Congress.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 15:01
Mooney* (Joanna Affect or Effect (Slowly Shaking Off The Effects of '98)) ID#350194:
First of all we have to determine if she Affects or rather she has an Effect. To begin I feel it is pretty safe to assume that Joanna is a female. My only other input is to question whether or not this has something to do with why Sting wrote that song along the lines of ... Don't stand so close to me...? Mooney - standing by, eagerly awaiting more details on the answer to this interesting query.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:51
Cage Rattler (Euro trading begins at the crack of dawn Down Under ) ID#33182:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
TOKYO ( AP ) - International trading began at the crack of dawn Monday for the euro, the new common currency that is expected to increase Europe's power in the global economy and eventually rival the U.S. dollar as the type of money chosen by traders and reserves.
The day's first dealings in the euro were expected to be cautious and subdued, and that was clear in Sydney, Australia, where trading began at 5 a.m. ( 1 p.m. EST Sunday ) .

It was still dark in the financial district of downtown Sydney when trading began between banks conducted by brokers, but lights could be seen from some of their offices in skyscrapers.

Taxi drivers who generally are idle between the closing of Sydney's pubs and the morning rush hour enjoyed a booming business, thanks to the early rising executives and traders.

``They're all going in early,'' said cab driver Max Theeboom, who had already brought two bankers to their downtown offices from the suburbs between 3:30 a.m. and 4:30 a.m.

Trading in the euro also was to take place in other markets around Asia on Monday morning, including some at banks that planned to open as early in the day as those in Sydney.

Many banks had spent the New Year's holiday weekend preparing to launch the world's euro trading, and speculation ran high in Asian newspapers on Sunday about just what the new currency would do to this region's troubled economies.

``With the financial crisis in Asia and Russia causing anxieties about the dollar-dominated currency system, the eyes of the world are on the euro, which has a chance of rivaling the U.S. dollar,'' Japan's Mainichi newspaper said in a front-page story.

For those who might have missed the point, the article's headline read: ``Topple the Dollar's Dominance!''

The 11 European nations that launched the euro Friday represent 20 percent of world economic output and 18 percent of world trade, and they will be a powerful player in the world economy.

In fact, one goal of the euro is for it to help the European Union forge a common market that is able to stand its ground against the United States and Asia.

For the first time in decades, the U.S. dollar will have a rival as the currency of choice for world trade and government reserves, a real change in Asia, where it has long been dominant.

In Beijing, Sunday's official China Daily newspaper said that Chinese companies should find it easier to raise money and sell goods in Europe with its new currency.

That could be a real asset in Asia, where many countries are fighting brutal economic crises that began in July 1997, with huge devaluations in their currency and stock markets and a massive exodus of foreign investment.

But the China Daily also said the euro is creating new headaches, including the fact that exchange rate risks have increased as international markets adjust to the euro.

While electronic trading in the euro began Monday, the first business day since New Year's, euro bills and coins will not be introduced until January 2002.


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:39
Selby (fiveliter) ID#286230:
I think there is still the possibility of accounting software to fail. All went well when the computer knew it was 1996 but what happens if the computer gets confused on Jan 1 2000?

I believe that Kero-Sun heaters are now called Kero-World heaters in Canada and have a few new safety features that were required as a result of the Montreal Ice storm last year. Should work about the same I guess.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:23
fiveliter (TJE plus some kerosene heater info) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You're welcome, doormat. That's one of the things I like about Kitco, also. Lots of posters with info on different topics. Of course, there are those posters I'll never understand like SDR with his currency computations ( my eyes just glaze over every time I try to think it through, it gives me a headache ) or Cherokee with all the cryptic abbreviations but I still enjoy reading them.

Selby, glad to hear it. No doubt lots of accounting and budget software has been fixed or was good to go by design. Also, budget forecasting difficulties won't by themselves bring companies down but they might soak up much needed manpower that would be better spent fixing even more serious problems. Should be an interesting year.

Kerosene heater and Aladdin lamp heat output info:
Test #1: Suburban bedroom with heat shut off and window open 2.
49 deg F to 60 deg F in about 7 hours. Not as good as I'd hoped but two lamps should easily maintain an already warm room. Rate: About 1.5 deg/hr but unable to go past 60 deg.

Test #2: Suburban bedroom with heat shut off and window open 2.
46 deg F to 70 deg F in 2.5 hours. Heater: Kero-Sun RC-41.
Rate: About 10 deg/hr with max temperature not determined yet.

Conclusion: Aladdin lamps provide a nice soft white light and can maintain and somewhat heat an average bedroom but should not be considered adequate as a sole source of heat in a winter emergency. Kero-sun heaters, on the other hand, real1y crank out the heat. The DC-41 is rated at 10,000 btu and was in a approx 140 sq. ft bedroom with two large windows and about 20 deg F outside temperature and easily handled the job.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:19
Mo in To (How is the weather in Michigan?) ID#347205:
Earle,
Are you still digging out around Lake Michigan. Lake Ontario ( Toronto ) I think got off relatively easy, I see on the TV that you folks had it worse than us.
MofromTo

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:16
Mo in To (Re: The Spear) ID#347205:
Dbog,
Re: your post last night re: selling 1/2 your WSP shares...I don't like to tell people what to do, in case I am wrong. On one hand, that would be the prudent course ( take some profit off the table ) on the other hand, the old maxim is buy on rumor ( and there are plenty of those about ) and sell on news. Sorry I couldn't be more specific. As for me, I am holding.
MofromTo

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:12
Mo in To (New Gold Discovery) ID#347205:
Hey All,
Just saw this on a biz channel here in Toronto. Gold has been discovered in Newfoundland..does anyone know the name of the company that found it?
Please reply if you know, I would be most interested!
MofromTo

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 14:02
24K (Protect your gold) ID#81124:
I'm surprised that I didn't see this in a James Bond movie before it appeared in real life.

Anti-carjacking device from Johannesburg.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_232000/232777.stm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 13:43
Old Soldier (Help identifying gold medallion) ID#185274:
I recently was offered a gold medallion same on both faces. About 1 3/8 inches in diameter. Masonic symbol in upper right field, three male faces in triangular formation in left central field. Surfaces appear to be cast. Edge appears to have been filed. Thick and heavy with small loop for chain soldered at top. Appears to be about 18K. Any ideas on source, identity, or value?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 13:32
doormat (@fiveliter) ID#271182:
Thanks for the info I just didnt know !! thats why i love this site ,you can find the answer to any question !!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 13:29
Selby (fiveliter ) ID#286230:
Should be no 00 effect in April 1999 in Ontario at least. I was making budget projections into 2001 with no problems back in 1996.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 13:26
fiveliter (The JoAnne Effect) ID#341312:
The JoAnne effect, named after Jo Anne Slaven, a comp.software.year-2000 poster, refers to the inability of accounting software to handle fiscal years ending in 00. This means that this software must be remediated and tested prior to the end of fiscal, not calendar '99, or the programs may produce garbage or simply shut down. FY '99 ends this month for quite a few large US corps. It ends March 31st for Japan, Canada, and the State of New York. Most US states follow on June 30th and the federal government's FY '99 ends Sept. 30th. Tick, tock, tick, tock...

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 13:25
doormat (Joanna Effect) ID#271182:
First we must find who the hell Joanna is !and btw what is the meaning of is.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 13:09
Ridgerunner (Joanna Affect) ID#409404:
Guess I have to show my ignorance again...

I've seen several passing references to the Joanna Affect on KITCO in the past couple of months, but have not seen an actual explanation of what it is. Could someone please explain it so this poor hillbilly can understand it?

Oh, by the way: GO VOLS!

Back to the still.

RidgeRunner

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 12:43
Rumpled (Clinton dates Newt's lesbian sister.) ID#411251:
http://www.zupkus.com/jim/clintonnewt.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 12:37
Rumpled (Looks like dem alien fellers already landed!) ID#411251:
http://www.zupkus.com/jim/space_aliens.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 12:26
cherokee (@...heard.it.in.a.dream........made.my.eyes.scream.........) ID#343449:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

realistic......

had a bad colonic pain and thought of you.....

for the record......

the stock market will under-go a crushing loss of at
least 50% with-in the next 12 months....

50% or better.....stocks going DOWN......please feel
free to re-post anytime.

gold to the moon soon due to choas...
grains break historic highs due to chaos......
paper used to wipe @ss instead of money due to chaos...........
i jack-slap you just for the fun of it..no chaos involved..........
lgbito realizes loral did sell high-tech to china but swallows his tongue
trying to admnit it.......
mozel is promoted to front row on the ssm................
war in your face.......................
more war in you your face..................
the peopleo are force to 'see' for the first time...........

cherokee!;..ridin.the.limb......alone.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 12:12
cherokee (@.....ANOTHER!) ID#343449:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

where oh where, is ANOTHER?

the ssm detected his presence here......

http://www.wolflodge.org/1/sc10.htm

at the helm of the sun-cruiser......he's come for his gold.

earl......

you have acheived gold-elite status on the ssm many moons ago...
you have the run of the ship.......btw...you and ted come to
the viewing area with the hubbly-bubbly, and make sure ted has
the lighter!

.searching.for.a.rainbow..marshall tucker...

cherokee!;...dotssm....icdtsctb!........yar, i can.....energize..

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:51
Delphi (Cage Rattler, 10:34 - Euro vs Dollar) ID#258142:
Copyright © 1998 Delphi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sure Euro is a good short-term buy, but may be not right after open - can be too speculative demand. In general, some European bourses like high Dollar and go down together with it. Two major reasons:
1. Higher dollar is good for export
2. Many companies, especially European multinationals ( form our Dutch basket - Shell, Philips, Unilever, Ahold, etc. ) have acquired businesses in USA and have significant share of their revenues in US$ while annual reports and dividend payments are in local currency and now will be in Euro. Lower dollar - lower dividend.
IMHO after successful Euro introduction ECB will not be interested in high Euro/$ volatility

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:48
chas (Silverbaron re shekels) ID#147201:
Thanx for bringing this up- interesting. Would like to know results objectively, Charlie

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:33
Cyclist (Hyperinflation) ID#339274:
is the possibility with supply bottlenecks prior to the year 2000.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:29
Cyclist (reality check) ID#339274:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/bs/story.html?s=v/nm/19990102/bs/millennium_4.html

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:19
gagnrad (Retearivs re golden chariots) ID#43460:
Copyright © 1998 gagnrad/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If the Romans had no chariots, what did Apollo drive across the sky each day? A gold plated BMW, perhaps? ( 8-^] ) Actually the chariot is well established in history from the dawn of Mesopotamian civilization. Chariots came in both 2 and 4 wheel versions ( sometimes confusing for those who have never seen a horse ) and even today, by a stretch of imagination, exist in ceremonial form. Recall the horse drawn ammuniton cart that from time to time carries the coffins of dignitaries to be buried in Arlington Cemetary. http://www.gothicworld.com/statuary/5370.htm



BTW, some of the finest examples of silverwork through all of history have been the fittings for horses and chariots. But I will not bore you with a lot more URLs.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:14
tolerant1 (mozel, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...you prove my point...) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
“Yes, after the initiation ceremony, belief is settled and decisions are easier and simpler. I don't know if that makes life simpler or not.”

Obfuscation, semantics investiture, and usage of self ordained or thrust upon appellations and nomenclature notwithstanding…those of us that witness any and all ceremonies look upon the self-proclaimed deities and their followers with the same contempt for their lack of understanding. For it is not ignorance but pre-cognitive self-inflicted falsehoods which allow the moment to pass less painfully but does nothing to address the crux of which the ceremony revolves.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 11:02
John Disney (tell me Im wrong .. please .) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
rhody ..
I have no agenda .. but facts are facts .. At current
exchange rates the dollar seems undervalued based
on PPP ( macdonalds index ) and also on relative unit
labour cost .. the last is a big item and it is WAY
OUT .. about 50 % .. a dmark at 2.2 or a euro at
1.5 would bring things to convergence nicely ..
As I said .. depressions in the US may come BUT the
numbers show no sign of it .. Industrial production
for November is 1.5 % with the last 3 months annualized
at 2.4%. This says PICKING UP .. PLUS unemployment is
ONLY 4.6 % .. IF you hate depressions then fine .. you
dont have one .. ppi and cpi are not falling in N.
America either ..
.. the Euros have an unemployment rate of 10.8% ..
and their IP is turning DOWN .. 3 % year on year and
the last 3 months at 2.4 %.. also the major political
figures are pushing for interest rate cuts ..
.. Id love a weak dollar .. easy for gold to perform..
I just have trouble seeing how we're going to get
there..

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 10:50
mozel (@T1) ID#153110:
Yes, after the initiation ceremony, belief is settled and decisions are easier and simpler. I don't know if that makes life simpler or not.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 10:34
Cage Rattler (Euro strength vs Dollar strength) ID#33182:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It looks that many analysts sharing the opinion that new currency is supposed to concur with the dollar from the day it was born. According on this theory we should expect it to get stronger while some countries and commercial financial organizations are starting to divercify their portfolios and reserves selling some dollars in favour of euro. However, I think that this process should be short lived, because the market in general has to try another approach to this matter. It has to check how ECB is dedicated to the strong euro policy and what level would be tolerable in case it goes against everyone's optimistic expectation. I can't see other scenario, than a very sharp weakness of the euro against the dollar in the near to medium term, when the market pushes it to the lower limit just to find the level it meets the resistance of ECB to establish a trading range for this new currency. So, on my opinion, it is a very good buy for euro tomorow at the opening price as well as it would be a great sell within a couple of weeks or so.

Source: LA_Igro FX trading

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 10:15
tolerant1 (mozel, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...What a perplexity is the human condition.) ID#20359:
To the uninitiated for sure. Life is simple, people complicate it.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 09:52
mozel (@BillD @crazytimes @JohnD) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@BillD Oviously, Herod believed the Magi. How they knew to come to Bethlehem, I don't know. But, the report says they were guided.

@crazytimes Same to ya'.

@JohnD There is more to be gleaned about the life of a Ponzi from watching bonds and banks than government reports. I wonder why is such a great part of bank profits from derivatives trading ? Why could South Korea get no better terms than 13 percent ? Why was Congress reluctant to refund the IMF ? Why are there reports of credit contraction in the US based on administrative restriction rather than higher market rates ? I sense new stressors.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:49
Silverbaron (Y2K Survival gold) ID#290456:
Didn't this idea come from some Kitco posters?

Y2K Survival Money - Designed and minted to enable you to thrive during times of social and economic upheaval

http://www.pcisys.net/~y2kgold/

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:38
BillD (@M O Z E L....) ID#263456:

I would have to look it up...but you know the details...but it had to do with signs that the King of the Jews had been born...Some planet in some house that indicated this... what are the details .. ( so I do not have to look it up... ) got my curiosity cooking now.

go gold..


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:30
Selby (1998 in summary) ID#286230:
Copyright © 1998 Selby/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1998's heroes and villains

By ERIC MARGOLIS
Contributing Foreign Editor
It was an excellent year for French wines, but a terrible one for international
heroes. As the end of the millennium approaches, men and women of good will
fell silent while malefactors, both great and small, had pretty much their way in
1998.
As a result, there are no 1998 awards for heroes, but censure aplenty for those
who vexed and troubled the world in this year of living badly.

CLASS A VILLAINS
Pol Pot - 1998 marked the end of the Monster of Cambodia, whose demented Marxist
theories eliminated one million people. Like so many other major Communist criminals, Pol Pot
died in obscurity, unpunished and unlamented. His death should remind us Communist regimes
killed more people this tragic century than all wars combined.
Gen. Sani Abacha - Nigeria's strongman blissfully expired after an overly energetic orgy.
Abacha, with his trademark one-way, silver sunglasses and permanent scowl, was a dictator's
dictator, who looted, executed, and continued Nigeria's tradition as the world's most corrupt
nation.
India's Bharatiya Janata Party leadership - These reckless, foolish Hindu fundamentalist
politicians overdosed India on nuclear Viagra to demonstrate national virility. They are racing to
develop a hugely expensive strategic nuclear arsenal when 40% of their people go hungry and
have no toilets. This folly brought world condemnation on India, and ignited a nuclear arms race
with Pakistan and China.
Kim Jong-Il - North Korea's Beloved Leader threatens to unleash his 1.2-million-man army
against South Korea like a hungry tiger, and to burn Seoul with fire. Recently he lobbed a
missile over Japan, and plans a second shot. He continues building nuclear, chemical and
biological weapons while his people starve. No one dares confront this international menace
and world-class blackmailer. It's easier and safer to blast defenceless Iraq.
Islamic terrorists -- Maybe the shadowy Osama bin Ladeen bombed U.S. embassies in East
Africa, or maybe it was some other unknown group. Whatever, criminals who bomb civilians in
the name of Islam deserve to be shot down like mad dogs. So, too, governments like Algeria's
military junta that slaughters its own people in the name of fighting Islamic resistance.
Slobodan Milosevic -- Not content to commit genocide in Bosnia, this later-day Balkan nazi
unleashed his killers against the persecuted Albanians of Kosovo. While the U.S. fulminates
against Saddam, it continues to play footsie with this wily tyrant, who drowned former
Yugoslavia in blood and befouled the name of the Serbian people.
Russia's democratic politicians and their mafia accomplices - They have inflicted vast misery
on Russians, looted untold billions, and turned Russia into a modern version of 1930s' Chicago,
writ large. Their outrageous crimes have ignited a wave of anti-Semitism, and threaten to return
long-suffering Russia to political tyranny.

CLASS B VILLAINS
Benjamin Netanyahu - His tireless efforts to sabotage the Oslo peace accords between Israel
and the Palestinians threatened to wreck the best chance for co-existence these two tormented
peoples have ever had. Israel's far right is as much a threat as Hamas extremists and their
human bombs. Let's hope the 75% of Israelis who want peace will elect this spring either a
Labour government, or wiser, more mature Likud leaders who understand Israel's security
depends on a fair deal with its Arab neighbours. God is not in the real estate business.
Saddam Hussein - Where would Bill Clinton be without dear, horrid Saddam to bomb and
blast? What reason would the U.S. have for stationing troops in the Mideast? What would the
U.S. military do? Pulverizing Iraq is a lot more fun than polishing belt buckles and boots. Iraq
threatens no one save its own tormented people. Everyone rightly hates Saddam, but recent
reports say his opponents within Iraq's military are accusing him of being too liberal. The
general who follows Saddam could be smarter - and far more dangerous.
Benazir Bhutto and Imelda Marcos - Born to shop till their nations drop, these two corrupt,
arrogant princesses still believe it's fine for their people to wear rags while they spend millions of
stolen money in Europe's finest boutiques.
Turkey's generals - These military dinosaurs kicked out a democratically elected government
last year, banned the nation's largest, most popular party, threatened war with Syria and have
teamed up with gangsters to murder irksome journalists and Kurdish separatists. And they
wonder why Europe does not want Turkey as a member. The generals' Kurdish enemy, the
Marxist PKK, is even worse.
The Chinese Communist party - Rising prosperity does not compensate for denial of basic
human rights. The great Chinese people deserve better than the dictatorship of cranky, old men.

George Soros - I'm tired of listening to this international billionaire speculator whine all the way
to the bank about the evils of capitalism while busily undermining the currencies of troubled
nations. Spare us guilt-ridden, left-wing capitalists. If your conscience bothers you so much,
George, go get an honest job.
Bill Clinton - Not because of Monica Lewinsky's liposuction, or surrounding himself with
sleazy cronies, but for humiliating the United States before the entire world and besmirching the
presidency. For shamelessly launching war against Iraq three times to divert attention from his
own domestic scandals.
But Americans still love Clinton: he has become a totem for the bull stock market.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:23
rhody (@ John Disney: A rising U.S. dollar guarantees a deflation.) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
does it not? After all, this 'flight to quality' nonsense is
what deflated Asia, and landed us on the brink of the abyss.
A rising dollar further worsens the US trade imbalance, leading
to further plant shut downs in the 'States. Surely the Fed would
be more interested in a slow decline of the dollar, rather than
its appreciation.

There is every indication of expanded demand for the EURO
in international trade, and as a reserve currency. Every unit
of wealth turned into a EURO, instead of a dollar, weakens the
dollar. So every report I have read suggests that the dollar
will sell off during 1999. Even a weak EURO weakens the dollar, as it represents competition as a storehouse of wealth.
Even CNBC thinks the dollar will decline It better.
I hate depressions.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:19
Greenstone Gold (I will let you all into a little Scottish secret................) ID#428218:

http://www.laphroaig.com/lpintro.htm

Aye,

Haggis

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:17
Greenstone Gold (I will let you all into a little Scottish secret................) ID#428218:

http://www.laphroaig.com/lpintro.htm

Aye,

Haggis

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 08:02
Marian (Again...) ID#348293:
Trader goes missing after massive loss

Now it's estimated his losses run into millions

By John Waples and Dominic Rushe

Special to The Star

LONDON - The curtains were drawn and the lights off at three…



http://www.thestar.com/thestar/editorial/money/990103BUS02_FI-SHOCK3.html


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 07:57
Greenstone Gold (This really does scrape the bottom of the barrel......) ID#428218:

http://www.nypostonline.com/news/9004.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 07:44
Greenstone Gold (Auric (Chilling Read on a Chilly Morning) ) ID#428218:

G'Day,

It's +41 deg C today.........Kalgoorlie, Western Australia

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 07:11
sharefin (MILLENNIUM BUG LURKS WITH TIME RUNNING OUT) ID#284255:
http://chicagotribune.com/version1/article/0,1575,SAV-9901010066,00.html

Long article but revealing...

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 06:14
John Disney (e-waves) ID#24135:
to all ..

Commodity forecasts based e-waves ( and with genetic
connection ) can be found at following URL..
http://www.ausinvest.net/community/Chris/invcorner_chris.htm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 06:12
John Disney (us dollar ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
to all ..
I dont want to upset the deflationary apple cart ..
or to annoy anyone who assumes that the us $ ( paper
though it is ) will weaken against other worthless
paper currencies ..
However .. re deflation ..ppi for the US canada
and australia are HIGHER for the last 3 months annualized
than for the year on year .. the heart of euroland ie
germany france netherlands are LOWER .. Japan is lower
at ppi level BUT RISING at CPI level.. some of the
deflation in Europe is maybe due to convergence
in the lead up to the Euro .. that should be past now.
re the dollar ..
this week's economist contains a chart showing unit
labour costs by country .. unit costs in germany
japan france and the UK are all about 40/60 per cent
HIGHER than in the US .. in 1985 the US costs were
HIGHER than European and Japanese costs .. Barring
strange and unforeseen events . This should keep
UPWARD pressure on the US dollar.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 05:28
crazytimes (@ Mozel) ID#344326:
One of the minds I have had the pleasure of meeting here on Kitco. What a priveledge to have you visit here!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 05:25
crazytimes (Go Mozel!!!) ID#344326:
I love ya!!!!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 05:11
mozel (@Envy) ID#153110:
The money system we have is a fact. What is in dispute is its permanency. It is only between about seventy to thirty years old. Quite simply, money to pay does not compound, but the money to be paid due to usury does. Money to pay is uncertain and variable. Pigs die; veins of gold pay out; prices decline unexpectedly. But the money to be paid is inexorably calculated. Bankruptcy, being the borrower's Jubilee, delays the great day of general reckoning. But, there is no Jubilee day for the system as a whole. Ponzi pure and simple.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 04:55
mozel (@The Road Not Taken @Aliens) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@The Road Not Taken The persuasive proof of it not at hand, nothwithstanding, it has recently penetrated my awareness that the credit system of money has been responsible for the diversion of science and technology from a virtuous path of applying for our welfare knwledge gleaned from learning from nature and proved by application to a wicked path of conquering nature with knowledge from experiment. The road not taken was not taken primarily because it did not offer the returns on investment required by the usury system. So, it was not funded. The road not taken was not taken because it led to simplification and low or no maintenace cost. The road taken tied people to metered usage, complicated, patentable mechanisms for monopoly, and needing expensive upkeep; features that better secured loans at greater interest.

@Aliens For 1500 years no one could read the hieroglyphs and might never have if not for the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. And the hieroglyphs were a language written by humans.

In the absence of belief there is no action. In the presence of belief there is some inevitable error. What a perplexity is the human condition.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 04:42
Envy (@Mozel) ID#219363:
Of course we can have a money system based on borrowing money into circulation, as proof I give you the one we have. It does create more liabilities than assets and may very well be 11 to 10, but that doesn't make it fail. It would fail if assets were a static commodity, but they aren't, we create wealth all the time: trees grow, hogs have babies, cows give milk, people labor, gold gets mined, etc.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 04:26
mozel (@BillD @No Permanent Money System @Usury @Psychology of Credit) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@BillD How did the Magi know to go to Bethlehem ? What else in the sky besides the star pointed them there ? All those males born in Judea on August 22, 7 BC were slaughtered by Herod's soldiers. Except one.

@We have no permanent money system since all money must be borrowed into circulation. By definition this system based on usury creates more liabilities than assets. Read War Cycles Peace Cycles by Hoskins for the details. The mathematics of 11 for 10 are inexorable.

The early history of America shows that credit is no more necessary for an economy than fever is for life. But, if you examine your own conduct and thinking, I believe you will agree that we are mentally conditioned to want credit, to esteem credit, and to esteem people who are creditworthy. Creditworthy is respectable. Creditworthy is full of potential. Creditworthy is a leading indicator. A primary funding source for promotion of the views and values relative to credit which are inculcated by school, media, and other institutions is the Rockefeller Foundation. A few billions spent over decades sponsoring textbooks and chairs in Universities and seminars and the like has its effect.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 04:14
Envy (@Ersel) ID#219363:
Raining here. I wish it were only raining outside. Ceiling just fell in on my living room floor because of all the slushy ice stuff that was up there on the roof, 4:30 in the AM here, been playing with plastic covering up the television and the rest of the stuff most of the morning. Landlord has an unlisted number but I feel sure that no matter where he is or what he's doing, he has to know I'm saying his name over and over under my breath.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 04:07
aurator (The Jacquerie) ID#251181:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Who Cares?
Brother, if you're already bothered by your perception of growing irrationality; cognitive dissonance with reality you're gonna be hiding under tables by 9/9/99.

We ain't seen irrationality yet. Have you heard about the flagellants? When they appear, as surely they will, at this little fin de siécle apocalypso party, they'll not look so much like medieval peasants as ¿I dunno? Pregnant Immigrant Welfare Lesbian Mothers on Drugs. Point is, Jacques, there's a whole bunch of wierdos waiting in the wings, and they'll likely make this site unpalettable if we all don't make sure it don't happen. So this is no time to despair. Chin up.
Jacquaurator

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 03:44
Ersel (sounds of silence.......) ID#230376:

Gooday from the chilly Midwest.......woke up a little while ago to that no sound sound. For 2 days the wind has been ablowin' and the snow asnowin'......it finally stopped.It's almost 3 a.m. but I'm gonna go out, plug in the tractor, and dig my way out of the driveway.Should be finished by the time the GOLDen sun comes a peekin' .........bbml

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 03:37
THC (MAD DREAMS OF MAKING A SILVER MILLION) ID#367411:
Copyright © 1998 THC/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Happy New Year to All!

Looking forward to a sparkling end to the millenium!

Now, just for fun, I would like to consider what would happen were we to get a multi-year, millionaire making bull run in silver & the other PMs. I know that it's 99.9% fantasy, but allow me to indulge.....it's that last 0.1% that makes things fun....

Silver options appear to offer by far the most leverage, so I used them for the following calculations of madness ( 5,000 ounces per contract ) :

Level 1: Jan. 1999
*POS= $5
*Buy 1 Dec 99 $6.25 call for $850 ( 17c )
*Cost of 1yr $1.25 OTM call is 17c/oz

Level 2: Sometime before Nov 99, POS rockets
*POS = $8.25
*Sell call for $2 x 5000 = $10,000
*Will assume due to volatility that cost of 1yr $1.25 OTM call has doubled to 34c ( this is an idiot guess, pls provide more realistic estimate! )
*Buy 5 $9.50 Dec 00 calls @34c, .34 x 5000 x 5 = $8,500

Level 3: Sometime before Nov 00, POS rockets again
*POS = $11.50
*Sell call for $2 x 5000 x 5 = $50,000
*Buy 25 $11.75 Dec 01 calls @34c, .34 x 5000 x 25 = $42,500

Level 4: Sometime before Nov 01, POS rockets again
*POS = $11.50
*Sell call for $2 x 5000 x 5 = $50,000
*Buy 25 $11.75 Dec 01 calls @34c, .34 x 5000 x 25 = $42,500

Level 5: Sometime before Nov 02, POS rockets again
*POS = $13.75
*Sell call for $2 x 5000 x 25 = $250,000
*Buy 100 $15.00 Dec 03 calls @34c, .34 x 5000 x 25 = $170,000

Level 6: Sometime before Nov 03, POS rockets again
*POS = $17.00
*Sell 100 calls for $2 x 5000 x 100 = $1,000,000

Once again, I am new to options and there may be many problems ( besides the risk, which should be obvious to all ) in the above options gambling/pyramiding strategy. I am hoping that others with more experience could point out how the actual prices of silver options would change should the POS move significantly.

Looking forward to comments.....

Good luck to all,

THC

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 02:56
Auric (Chilling Read on a Chilly Morning) ID#257312:

Hamasaki's latest y2k newsletter-- http://www.kiyoinc.com/WRP106.HTM --from the ICY midwest!

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 02:49
Who Cares? (Interesting Phenomon) ID#189232:
Copyright © 1998 Who Cares?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Why is it that on a website besieged with gold banking cabals,
imminent economic crashes and Y2K AUpocolypses, that
the idea of aliens is so frightening?

True, it's not on topic. But I truly surprised at the hostile
reactions. Perhaps it's part of the environment now.

I used to think I understood the world, too, up until June
of 1994, when I tracked down the full, unedited source FLIR
video from Waco. Since then, I've peeked behind the curtain
several times now; the latest example being Hillary's cattle
trading scam. I used to wonder why, since the daily trading
records are still on file at the CME, why nobody had stepped
forward and PROVEN that the cattle trades were a poorly
disguised payoff to governor Clinton from Tyson chicken.

I found out yesterday. Smalt, the independent prosecutor,
was intimidated into dropping the investigation. Most of the
country doesn't know it, will never know it.

But. It wasn't *right*. It didn't make *sense*.

The facts didn't add up.

I'm tempted to lump this reaction in with the rabidness of
Clinton's supporters. I mean, think about it. Reading the
ferocity with which Clinton is defended is... unexpected.

Why?

I think it goes back to the idea I posted about a dynamic
balance between borrowers and savers. The majority of the
posters here have been touting an economic collapse for over
a year now. Now, even though I might wonder about the existence
of aliens, I ain't been whining about how Greenspan screwed me,
since I already expected him to prop the system.

I expected him to prop up the system because I re-evaluated my
belief system after the '93 containment of the US banking
collapse.

And I now expect that sometime within the next twelve months,
one side or the other will emerge as a clear winner. Either
borrowers. Or savers. And that will finally signal the end
of the game.

I pretty happy with the synchronization of my belief system with
current events these days. I am bothered by what I perceive to
be growing irrationality; cognitive dissonance with reality.

I guess I'm kind of sad to see it here, too, since I like the
general mood of this website. I used to think it was funny,
that this website was kind of a little island unto itself,
unaffected and unknowing of the raging flame wars throughout
the net newsgroups.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 02:21
Greenstone Gold (One to keep an eye on............) ID#428218:

SILVER STANDARD RESOURCES......

http://www.silver-standard.com/

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 02:15
Fred (To: Envy) ID#341234:
-
Even though I will never listen to you for investment advise, you have some good points. I guess any monetary system that is based on debt is guaranteed to eventually fail unless it is controlled extremely well. Paper money issued by a government is equal to debt by definition if it is not backed with something. When Greenspan recently increased liquidity, he was really just creating more debt. If it is true that the gold market is burdened by huge loans, even it is vulnerable to collapse, at least for those who loaned it. Maybe the only truly stable financial system would be a gold backed money with no debt allowed. That might be too restrictive to support an economy.

As you point out, catastrophes as well as bubbles can destroy a financial system. We might have both with the global recession, Y2K, and our credit and stock market bubbles.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 01:49
Jack (Malaysia says ready to use euro in trade) ID#253298:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990102/bd.html
Presently 70% of all Malaysian trade is conducted in dollars, while trade with US is at 18%.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 01:36
sharefin (Aurator) ID#284255:
I noticed that myself after I had posted it.
I can't confirm its validity but there it is sitting in cyberspace.

Perhaps a dummy run or a new years hoax?
I don't know.


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 01:28
Jack (Mining Uglies) ID#253298:

From the Northern Miner http://www.northernminer.com/free/2.html
As if underfunded miners aren't enough. Bet that Northgate ends up as operator at Kemess. Wonder why the YEN's been strong lately?

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 01:25
CompGeek (Marion County Oregon) ID#343259:
Was curious, so contacted Sharefin via email.

He said he just found the article on the website an hour ago or so.

I called the dispatch operator ( non-emergency ) for the county, and believe that there is no emergency currently, and that the press release was probably just lying around for some drill.

I'd say at this time, False Alarm.


Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 01:11
Greenstone Gold (Mo in To.......a ray of sunshine...........) ID#428218:

http://www.kalbldtc.com.au/home.html

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 01:08
Envy (@Fred) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Your message about fiat money and debt bubbles got me thinking for a few minutes because you had a convincing case against dollars and all the other fiat currencies. True, you couldn't have invested 1 dollar when Christ was born and ended up with 155 thousand trillion dollars in 1999. There aren't that many dollars, and you said that points to a flaw in the debt money system, that the world should use gold. But then I thought about it for a minute, the problem I think isn't that fiat money is bad and causes debt problems, the problem with the whole deal is in the debt itself. That is to say, if you had put one ounce of GOLD in the bank at the birth of Christ and instructed the bank to do the very same thing at 2 percent interest, you couldn't end up with 155 thousand trillion ounces of gold in 1999 either. I think there is a lot more to it than the multiplication of wealth through the magic of compound interest. There are floods, wars, plagues, dark ages, conquests, and who knows, maybe even y2k type deals. Large concentrations of wealth always seem to slip through weak hands into strong, I guess the world just works like that. I guess that's why God made debt default and bankruptcy. Russian bankers might be God's chosen people.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:55
Retearivs (Agmen et impedimenta) ID#413175:
Copyright © 1998 Retearivs/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


Ave, amici!

The board is pretty quiet, except for the u.f.o. traffic, perhaps Bart will permit of an exception for an observation about a society that believed in the precious metals and did not debase its currency, at least for quite a while.


...the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot.

Damme, here we go again! This hoary old monster arises from time to time. Its origin is mysterious but it must be slain anew each time it appears. There must be some obscure text book somewhere that contains this misinformation.

Here is golden information. The Roman army excelled at infantry tactics in the open field. Infantry was supported by cavalry, archers, javelin throwers and sometimes by slingmen. They used cavalry the same way it had always been used and would be used into the 20th century. Cavalrymen sat astride their horses. The ancient Romans did not use war chariots; they were infantrymen, the finest in the world, perhaps the finest infantry that there ever will be.

Now an army on the march ( agmen ) had following along behind it a baggage train ( impedimenta ) that consisted of wagons of materiel, artillery ( ballista ) and various hangers on of the army. In Roman cities there was a standard gauge for wagon wheels. The reason was stepping stones. The streets of old cities were filthy and wet. Sidewalks elevated above the street allowed walking along without getting into horse droppings and whatever else had been deposited in the street. Now if you want to keep your sandals and the bare feet in them clean, how do you get across the street? To avoid wading through the muck in the street, stepping stones were set into the road pavement to allow crossing the street. Gaps were left between the stones at a standard interval to allow the passage of wagon wheels. There would be no
point in making a wagon with a non standard gauge, it could not be used in a city. It would just be common sense to make all vehicles to a standard gauge. ( Next time you see a street scene of the down town of one of the actual, excavated ancient Roman city, look for this stepping stone feature. )

Another problem solved by a standard gauge is damage from ruts on unpaved roads. The reason will not be dealt with here but ruts were a feature of those European roads not paved by the Romans or others for the next 2,000 years and so a standard gauge made perfect sense for those next two millennia.

Noble, knowledgeable Kitcoites, please kill off mentions of Roman war chariots whenever you encounter them!

Vale, cosnoscenti!



Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:49
NTEOTWAWKI (@that awful smell of bad science reeks here again!) ID#390337:
Copyright © 1998 NTEOTWAWKI/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Three new entities in orbit around Sol? Happens all the time.
Sole source of information? A CCD camera with tons of software processing behind it. Controlled by a government agency.
Independent confirmation by author? None.
Orbital ephemeris given by author? None.
Plausible rational explanantion presented? None.
Irrational and always conspiratorial explanantion eluded to? Always.
----------------------------------------
Strange images captured by Nexrad radar? Happens all the time.
Sole source of information? A network of independent radar imagery hardware with tons of software processing behind it. Controlled by a government agency.
Independent confirmation by author? None.
Other corroborating radar images given by author? None.
Plausible rational explanantion presented? None.
Irrational and always conspiratorial explanantion eluded to? Always.
----------------------------------------
Solar Cruisers images captured by satellites? Happens all the time.
Sole source of information? More CCD camera with tons of software processing behind it. Controlled by a government agency.
Independent confirmation by author? None.
Other corroborating images given by author? None.
Plausible rational explanantion presented? None.
Irrational and always conspiratorial explanantion eluded to? Always.
Besides every one knows that the port shielding on those Klingon warbirds were built for crap. The x-ray flux density from just one solar flare would cause a core breach in a Vulcan second.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:46
aurator (cave canem) ID#251181:
Retearivs
Wonderful post! Let us always attempt to correct each other's misapprehensions about this sweet gold world.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:41
aurator (Mad Hussites, Mad Millerites and Mad Hatters...........) ID#251181:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
sharefin
That URL & post on the Joanna effect, are you using Remote Viewing? Couldn't help noticing the date 1/1/00. Is someone pulling my leg here?

Alberich
I have decided that, in order to abide by Rudi's exhortation to keep my head while all about are losing their's… in the forthcoming milliewhatsit one needs to be very well informed about:
• the eschatological underpinnings of Christianity
• The essential features of Cargo Cults
• Pseudo-scientific post facto argument
• Mass Pyschology
• Fad Marketing
• The history of millenarianism
• The history of millinery
while continuing to develop a broad sense of humour.
I have noticed that human beans are at their most ridiculous attempting to defend the indefensible.

I can see many belly-laughs in my future, this year.

aurator_laughing@pomposity__HO__HO__HO__

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:30
Dutchman (SPEED) ID#215235:
Thanks for the website address.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:19
Retearivs (Agmen et impedimenta) ID#413175:
Copyright © 1998 Retearivs/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Ave, amici!

...the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot.

Damme, here we go again! This hoary old monster arises from time to time. Its origin is mysterious but it must be slain anew each time it appears. There must be some obscure text book somewhere that contains this misinformation.

Here is golden information. The Roman army excelled at infantry tactics in the open field. Infantry was supported by cavalry, archers, javelin throwers and sometimes by slingmen. They used cavalry the same way it had always been used and would be used into the 20th century. Cavalrymen sat astride their horses. The ancient Romans did not use war chariots; they were infantrymen, the finest in the world, perhaps the finest infantry that there ever will be.

Now an army on the march ( agmen ) had following along behind it a baggage train ( impedimenta ) that consisted of wagons of materiel, artillery ( ballista etc. ) and various hangers on of the army. In Roman cities there was a standard gauge for wagon wheels. The reason was stepping stones. The streets of old cities were filthy and wet. Sidewalks elevated above the street allowed walking along without getting into horse droppings and whatever else had been deposited in the street. Now if you want to keep your sandals and the bare feet in them clean, how do you get across the street? To avoid wading through the muck in the street, stepping stones were set into the road pavement to allow crossing the street. Gaps were left between the stones at a standard interval to allow the passage of wagon wheels. There would be no point in making a wagon with a non standard gauge, it could not be used in a city. It would just be common sense to make all vehicles to a standard gauge. ( Next time you see a street scene of the down town of an actual, excavated ancient Roman city, look for this stepping stone feature. )

Another problem solved by a standard gauge is vehicle damage from ruts on unpaved roads. Ruts were a feature of those European roads not paved by the Romans or others for the next 2,000 years and so a standard gauge made perfect sense for those next two millennia.

Noble, knowledgeable Kitcoites, please kill off mentions of Roman war chariots whenever you encounter them!

Vale, cognoscenti!



Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:11
LSteve (Little tell tale signs) ID#263244:
Copyright © 1998 LSteve/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Funny how over the holiday you get to talk to people about things that usually never get brought up. Talked with my wife's cousin over Christmas. He is a contractor who lives in Milwaukee. He said that a few weeks ago all the banks in Milwaukee stopped loaning money for spec houses. He said this has a lot of contractors getting nervous, they are wondering whats up. Then we had the neighbors over for new years and he told me that he had a home equity loan set up and was ready to sign the papers when the bank pulled out of the deal. They said they had gotten word from on high to stop accepting and processing home equity loans. So now I'm wondering if the banks are getting a little ancy ( sp? ) about all this debt and are pulling their horns in a little bit.

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:07
Speed (Bill Murphy's site) ID#29048:
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/Scripts/registration.cfm

Date: Sun Jan 03 1999 00:06
Selby (MoinTo) ID#286230:
I got my provisions in this am and it looks like I did something right. I doubt if I'll get out of the driveway until Sunday afternoon or evening.

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