KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:57
Skeptic (Greed and folly by our leaders) ID#280110:
Copyright © 1998 Skeptic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have been lurking here for about one year and am impressed with the knowledge and the general quality of the posts to this site. I am amazed at the lack of foresight of some of our government and corporate leaders. A recent example is the decision of a major airline to buy several new planes ignoring the high probability that they will not be flying due to Y2k, no insurance, fuel shortages and high fuel prices, lack of customers who can afford tickets, and a major recession or depression resulting from these problems. The major bank mergers are another example with all of the problems trying to solve the Y2k issues, the mergers will only add to the confusion. A major problem in the world is overcapacity of manufacturing which leads to price cuts and DEFLATION, and problems in repaying loans to the banks. So our illustrious leaders cut interest rates 3 times to spur additional investments and to bail out the banks and hedge funds. The public considers this a golden opportunity to invest in stocks that are grossly overvalued. Hello? Farm prices are at 20 year lows with hogs selling for 9 cents a pound so that the farmer gets a whole $22.50 for a 250 pound hog ready for market and the waiter at the fancy restaurant gets a $10 tip for taking the order and serving the meal to 4 people. This is absurd. Is the government doing anything to help the farmers avoid bankruptcy so that they can raise food for us next year? How could a major corporation be so stupid as to sell missile technology to Communist China? Why did the government approve this sale? Was authority to approve the sale transferred to the Department of Commerce? Is this related to greed or campaign contributions? Why was the deactivated Long Beach naval facility leased to Communist China? With all of these issues, why is the impeachment inquiry limited to perjury, Monica etc.? Is Congress protecting the public interest? My brain does not comprehend these decisions. Does anyone have good answers on these issues? Perhaps the people of Minnesota have the right idea to elect Jesse Ventura as governor and ignore the Republican and Democrat Party who were not representing their interests. We will see more of this in the Year 2000 elections.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:51
Carmack (Gollum you do not have to wait until the morrow) ID#277224:
to be rightttttttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:46
Gollum (Away to await the morning...Good night.) ID#43349:

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:46
tolerant1 (and so the unraveling has picked up speed...chaos and flux as Cherokee says...yup) ID#20359:
( gulp and a puff to ya Cherokee ) we are entering a sobering phase as a nation and in a global context...the illusions are fast disappearing and actual reality is taking hold and it has very sharp teeth...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:44
Gollum (@crazytimes ) ID#43349:
Looks like a Kitco spike.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:44
Carmack (POG) ID#277224:
Kitco showing gold up $2.90.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:38
ERLE (What I used for POG, What do you see?) ID#190411:
http://www.quoteline.com/astmete.asp

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:35
ERLE (Au 292.00+.25) ID#190411:
spike-o-rama

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:34
Gollum (@crazytimes ) ID#43349:
Across the western sea, tomorrow has already started.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:30
crazytimes (Gold) ID#344326:
Just spiked up ALOT. Anyone know if it's correct or what's going on?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:26
neer-do-well (Sad dam) ID#391172:
So how do we get out of this? Saddamm isn't going to say he's sorry. So we quit after a few days, what then? He loses nothing except a few buildings and we lose our reason. If we keep it up the world will eventually see us in a very negative light. It's the same old trap...something comes up you can't deal with? got a gun? let the gun do the thinking..trouble is guns always think bang bang bang. How nieve our leaders are.

More money that's the answer..more for education..police..prisons..army..navy..if I just had more money..AG has the answer..more money..I used to think that.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 23:10
JTF (Slow motion financial implosion -- AG printing money) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Donald,Kiwi: How do you know that this is due to the Hedge fund problems, and not due to the worldwide financial crisis which may be accelerating anyway?

There is another item which I need to remind everyone about. If there is a worldwide financial implosion, all equities will get hit -- including precious metals. Even if they are hit less.

If the financial collapse is slow enough, gold/gold equities may rise dramatically before things really start to fall apart, especially in the countries with the greatest external debts and weakest economies. All depends on which country you are in, doesn't it? I think all will eventually suffer a repeat of the events of the 20's and 30's -- but that happened in slow motion too -- and some countries got hit first, some later.

My guess is that the US has some distance to go -- probably it will be last to fall -- just as in the 30's. The US seems to excell in excess -- all the way to the ultimate heights of a boom -- to the lowest lows.

Does anyone doubt that the 500 FBI files ( or WJC's private investigators ) dug up the dirt on Livingston?

Gollum -- I still don't know why you think gold is going up tomorrow. I wish it does, given my investments. But I am begninning to think that deflation will rule for some time. I think we are reaching 20 years lows on the CRY0's. I too had thought it was bottoming.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:58
cherokee (@....looking.at.the.top.of.the.cloud-bank...) ID#288231:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

korea.......WAY outside of the war curve..

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/j34.html

time for their move.....they can reduce seoul to ashes
in 30 minutes with their existing artillery and rockets
currently trained on that same city....

war......who said that? read on.....look at history......
war......the war curve has been violated....chaos and flux
wear chastity belts and control the horizontal and vertical...
catching-up will be impossible when sh!t hits the fan...

!;..cdotssm....rtpuarwngriivc!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:40
cherokee (@....time.for.tough.decisions.......) ID#288231:

reads like a script........posted here again....

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/j41.html

the scenario in the middle east.......what to expect..

russia has recalled their ambassador to the united states.
vladimir zhirinovzski is raising hell in the duma...he is
the #2 man...will he follow this prediction into infamy?
read the past and see the future...

john disney...just hate it...gracias...

!;...high.above.in.the.ssm.....readying.to.take.on.crew.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:25
Goldteck (Lease rate on Gold ) ID#431200:
I would appreciate if somebody could give me an URL that shows the lease rate on Gold .Thanks

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:23
esotericist (There are some really angry bears just itching for an excuse) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Primakov's in charge, now. And he loves Arabs. Especially the uppity variety that can draw the US into a conflict of ( correct ) but ambiguous interpretation. And worse - he needs an opportunity to make his name and thus cement his grip.

Wirse....the Russian mafiocracy are broke....Like the Germans were just prior to....and their national self-respect piggy bank needs replenishing. This is going to get very tricky.


Meanwhile, the Russian General Staff ordered the navy and air force to put some of its units on a state of alert and prepare for possible missions in relation to the Iraqi crisis, the Russian news agency ITAR-TASS said.

Defence Minister Igor Sergeyev returned to Moscow on Thursday evening calling off a trip to Nato headquarters.

However, there was no sign that Russia was preparing to send any forces to the region.

Delayed start

Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov said his party and its allies - the majority of the Duma - would vote down moves to ratify the much-delayed Start II treaty, which was on the day's agenda.

Approved by the US Senate in 1996, the treaty has never reached the Duma floor for a vote despite strong pressure from Washington and the Kremlin for deputies to agree to radical nuclear arms cuts.

Communists had said they might support Start II this year in exchange for a big boost to Russian defence spending in the 1999 budget.

Mr Ivanov told the Duma, which had earlier held a minute's silence for the Iraqi dead, that Russia has become the clear leader of all sensible forces in the world which favour the rule of law.

Earlier in the day Russian television channels showed Yeltsin looking at maps of the Middle East and talking with several generals and senior aides. Aides said he spent most of Wednesday night monitoring the situation.

And CNBC are running their little gold is just a commodity for making trinkets piece there....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:22
kapex (.) ID#218249:
http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/ascani121598.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:21
longj (@EJ) ID#30345:
LOL, and nytol, for gollum's morrow. If the gold fairy should show early, so much the better. The effects will be lasting when shown.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 22:21
Winston () ID#244446:
Usually, the liitle-traded Dec 99 390 gold call has a volume of a few
hundred at most. Today's volume was 13,209
See http://www.nymex.com/futures/intnetco

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:48
James (A damning indictment of the IMF by Jimmy Rogers: You & I would be in jail if we ) ID#252150:
kept our books this way & continually took in public money.
There is no doubt about it, the IMF will destroy capitalism as we know it, its just a matter of time.
Hope this URL works.

http://www.house.gov/banking/91098rog.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:44
EJ (Been away for a few days, lessee now...) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We're bombing the hell out of Iraq and the Defense Dept. pledged a 10 year effort was necessary. Has war arrived just in time to save us from deflation? Or is WJC stalling Congress? Naw, too obvious. Republicans are close to impeaching the pres but Larry Flynt has cornered the new republican Speaker of the House into admitting that he has been playing hide the salami with women other than his wife for years. Doesn't help the Repub's case. Can the Pres be saved by a porno magnate?

It just keeps getting more peculiar. Thank God the markets have their heads on straight through all this, selling gold and bidding up the price of stocks, especially tech stocks on NASDAQ.

http:/www.itulip.com

Internet tulips. That's the ticket.

-EJ

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:39
kiwi (aurator....eating out my dates) ID#194311:
everythings barse ackwards here anyways...
time to get back to NZ and get me 'ead back on staight....
I think day month year and have to transpose it, almost...and that's a four digit year mind too.

Perhaps if US had adopted sensible standards like metric, four digit year, gold, etc. they wouldn't be so screwed up by now.....engineering here is a nightmare, slug/lbs arrrgggghhhh.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:37
Mooney* (@ Reality Check - Checking In (and) Checking Out) ID#350194:
'War' and All - Gold - Still In The Box. 'Nuff Said.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:34
oris (Russian Ambassodor is recalled just like that and ....) ID#249244:
it sends a clear message that Russians are not taking
Bill Clinton very seriously any more...in the past it would
be very difficult for me to imagine such move in such
particular circumstances..

Clinton is just about ready to start getting ignored in
some part of international arena...







Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:32
Shek (S Valley) ID#287279:
Copyright © 1998 Shek/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold Demand Trends, published by the World Gold Council, reports that the offtake in the U.S. is up by 19 percent in the third quarter of 1998 over the same period in 1997. Of Y2K interest is the fact that gold coin sales are up a massive 133%. An analyst at the Council, George Milling Stanley, gives three reasons for the increase, the third of which is: I don't know the truth of it, but Y2K problem seems to be contributing. From coin dealers in the U.S. we learn that there is a lot of imbalance in their deliveries, a lot of coins are going to Silicon Valley, the heart of the computer industry in the U.S.

http://www.economictimes.com/today/17econ42.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:29
Goldteck (Agnico-Eagle climbs on goldprospect drill results) ID#431200:

http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/dec17_agnicoeaglegold.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:20
aurator () ID#251181:
Earl
I chose those words carefully, they were supposed to sound as if they were being spoken by the Masters of this Sweet Gold World {MSGW} as the MSGW pulled the plug on the 401 fiasco somewhere about 01.01.00. ( BTW kiwi, do you think in merkan date formats or, like me, have to convert them? )

The argument is quite circular. Only those that retain their wealth will deserve to retain their wealth.

Is there no prophylaxis for this Trojan Horse?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:16
Earl ('Fess up now.) ID#227238:
Who's the rotten b*st*rd what promised Rumpled a rose garden?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:13
NTEOTWAWKI (@Gollum) ID#390337:
Couldn't decode latest transmission.
Possible ciphertext key enclosed.
Please authenticate.
O P E N I N T E R E S T P L U S T R I P L E W I T C H I N G E Q U A L S U P S I D E

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:06
Earl (Salty:) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Huh

.....redistribution of wealth from those who don’t deserve to hold on to it to those who do.

I know I have done an execerable job, foolin' around with this GD gold thing but, that's a harsh way to deal with it. ...... How 'bout if I promise to do better the next time. ...... I'll only get involved when Donald's XAU/bullion ratio is less than 0.20 AND Dabchick's lease rates are above 2.5% AND Rhody tells me the spread is down to 1.5% or less ( never to rise again ) . .....Oh! and SDRer will have to tell me, specifically, what he's finding in them CB ratholes he keeps poking around in. ..... OK?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:00
RJ (..... Vexed with Dyslexia .....) ID#411259:

Golden….. What's that about your Rumpled Arse?

KO

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 21:00
longj (@rumpled--spread your cheeks, buthead) ID#30345:
@gollum--ther is hope, thanx for the hints

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:48
Rumpled (GOLD SUCKS!!---HAS SUCKED----WILL SUCK!! Anybody who doesn't agree can....) ID#411251:
KISS MY GOLDEN ARSE!!! Oh Yea....MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:47
kiwi (aurator....AG and Y2K go way back...) ID#194311:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The December Vanity Fair magazine has a good comprehensive article on the Y2K situation. In it Alan Greenspan is quoted on numerous occaisons as saying he realised back in the 60's when he was coding banking systems in COBOL, etc., etc. ( suprised me too ) that he knew then it was a ticking time bomb but the economics of the day dictated it.

Is this just too much?, the architect of the global boom actually knows from first hand programming experience that major banking systems will lock-up on 12:31:99 and he has done little or nothing with his immeasureable powers to avert this. Just a little longer and a little longer and it will al go to hell all of a sudden with no one person to point the finger at.....it's all too scary to think about.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:45
Gollum (Methods of mass conception) ID#43349:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_236000/236089.stm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:31
Gollum (Monica hear our plea) ID#43349:
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news1020.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:30
aurator (horses for forces) ID#251181:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Donald/Kiwi
It is almost as if there is a frantic effort to appear calm as the holes appearing in the dyke are plugged up. I wonder if they are hoping to keep the floodgates closed until the deluge can be blamed on Y2K.

Is Y2K a force majeure? Would Y2K causes allow closure of certain markets and dishonouring of contracts without any individual taking responsibility?
If Y2K can be blamed for a short-term closure of markets then the fiat banking system could continue unscathed post-Y2K. The Y2K market closure would then serve some very useful purposes. In particular, the redistribution of wealth from those who don’t deserve to hold on to it to those who do.

Remember; the Hunts were screwed by Comex changing the rules. They’ve done it several times since.

This Y2K is just the ticket to do it again, a force majeure, the Trojan Horse.....



Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:22
Tantalus Rex (@Isure, @ALL) ID#295111:
VERY improbable the Swiss government will be able to sell their gold. Any such sale MUST BE APPROVED in a referrendum. Polls posted at the world gold council clearly show France, Italy, Germany do not want sales of gold from their reserves.

Another poll taken in Switzerland showed that instead of selling their gold, THE SWISS ACTUALLY WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO PURCHASE MORE RESERVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be taken in by the spin meisters....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:12
Tantalus Rex (@The Priest) ID#295111:
Ok, I'll take your cal...hope this works...
St Matthew, Patron Saint of Accountants, Pray for us.
Amen!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 20:07
Donald (@Fergie) ID#26793:
The old Dow/Gold high of 31.82 was set on July 16th. It has not yet been exceeded. We are at 30.46 tonight.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:55
fergie (S&P500/Gold ratio hit a new all-time high today) ID#284192:
All:

The S&P500/Gold ratio hit a two century high today: 4.049, topping the previous high of 4.038, reached on 7/16/98. As of today's close, the S&P/Gold ratio is 44.5% over the peak day in 1968 ( 2.802 ) and 161.8% over 1929's peak day ( 1.547. )

Donald: How far are we from the high in the Dow/Gold ratio?


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:53
Donald (@Kiwi) ID#26793:
I think that is likely. The Fed has taken the step of sending a letter of warning to member banks concerning lax lending standards to hedge funds.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:49
ravenfire (merkans linking their livelihoods to equities) ID#365190:
http://www7.mercurycenter.com:80/premium/business/docs/wealth17.htm

no kidding. but we all knew this already, yes?

recipe for disaster. indeed.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:49
Donald (Agnico-Eagle news) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981217/bdi.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:45
ravenfire (varied pieces of news) ID#365190:
Copyright © 1998 ravenfire/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_237000/237520.stm
submarine clash in Korea

http://www.bloomberg.com/news2.cgi?T=news2_ft_topww.ht&s=347115802
heck, give shares as gifts to your kids this Christmas

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/crisis_in_the_gulf/latest_news/newsid_237000/237439.stm
Russia recalls ambassador ( worth reposting I guess )


tolerant1 - that piece, supposedly by a 16 year old ... it does sound like it could be genuine. perhaps all is not lost in the next generation of merkans after all...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:43
THE Priest (THIS IS WRONG) ID#369333:
I BELIEVE THIS ISVERY WRONG WHAT IS GOING ON HERE THE MANIPULATION IS ENORMOUS LET'S ALL PRAY

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:42
Donald (Battle Mtn. news) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/981217/minera_and_1.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:42
kiwi (Boiling up rapidly now....crystal balls anyone?) ID#194311:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Russia recalls ambassador to US

http://nt.excite.com/news/r/981217/18/news-russia

S.Korea takes out another N. Korean submarine

http://nt.excite.com/news/r/981217/18/news-korea

Donald....hmmmm this is what I thought, all these bond, bills and paper things get confusing. You know what I'm beginning to suspect is that the losses in August Sept. due to Russian default actully started a slow motion meltdown. With couterparties dishonouring derivative trades and currency forward contracts the fed has had to create money like crazy just to prop up the banks who got stung. Even so they have been reporting mammoth losses ( which the stock market seems oblivious to ) , I think the dominos are falling behind the scenes....It's only a matter of time now before one their number gives in entirely, tires of holding up their share of the sagging house of cards and makes a break for gold?
Whadda ya reckon?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:41
RJ (..... US Mint Reports Sales Figures .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Total 1998 sales of 1 oz golden eagles is 1.35 million. Normal gold coin sales by the Mint average about 300K to 400K in a typical year. This seems to other than a typical year, no? Add in the sales for fractional gold coins, and the number of ozers sold approach 1.5 million. Total sales of 1 ounce coins since 1986 is 7.3 million. This means that fully 17% of ALL gold coins sales from the Mint over the last 12 years, occurred in this Year of Our Lord, Nineteen Hundred and Ninety Eight. Indeedy.

Platinum coin sales are through the roof. 23,500 sold in November alone. 152,000 total one ounce coins this year. Since I personally sold about 11,000 this year, I guess I am responsible for better than 7% of worldwide sales. Whoopee… I just wish it would move already. Total Platinum Eagles sold since the coin was introduced is about 225K - better than twice the Mint's most hopeful expectations.

Total silver coin sales have reached 73 million ounces since 1986, with about 4 million being sold this year.

These figures represent new uncirculated coins only. They do not include sales of proof coins, or any coins sold in the secondary market.

Somebody is liking this stuff

Somebody wants it

And they seem to want it NOW.

Righty O



Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:37
Gollum (Can you hear what I hear?) ID#43349:
What s difference a day will make.

http://www.crbindex.com/reviews/index.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:35
CoolJing (getting the distinct feeling this Iraq situation is going to get heated up) ID#343171:

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) -
Russia has recalled its
ambassador to the United States
in response to the U.S.-British air
strikes on Iraq, a senior American
official said Thursday.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:29
Donald (@Kiwi) ID#26793:
I have seen reserves added every business day since at least November 3rd, 19 billion into M2 last week. I presume they are attempting to re-float the system but the hedge fund losses and other international defaults must be greater than the money created as deflation is rampant worldwide. Did you see my early morning post about British manufacturing prices? Largest plunge in 40 years.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:24
Bill Buckler (Re: The Butler Report) ID#256381:
Copyright © 1998 Bill Buckler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Donald got the subscription. Kinda thought he might.

Here's the quote:

Butler's conclusions were welcome in Washington, which helped orchestrate the terms of the Australian diplomat's report. Sources in New York and Washington said Clinton administration officials played a direct role in shaping Butler's text during multiple conversations with him Monday at secure facilities in the U.S. mission to the United Nations. Spokesmen for Butler and the Clinton administration declined to comment on those conversations.

And once again, here's the URL:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-12/16/125l-121698-idx.html

Donald tells me that Mr Butler has denied this on US TV

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:23
Donald (Livingston admits to affairs (plural) will not resign. Republicans are stunned) ID#26793:
http://nt.excite.com/news/r/981217/19/news-livingston

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:22
kiwi (Donald....re:impeach greenspan.) ID#194311:
Is this money creation we witness...or just papering over the cracks?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:17
longj (kitco has liftoff.) ID#30345:
zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:16
longj (@t1) ID#30345:
Rook sacrificed for king ( well he thinks he's king ) ? This ( lewiston ) guy doesn't have the history of corruption...Has he got that many in the closet? Oh, well I'm for loading them all up into the shuttle....And if we need to give the chinese the rocket science to get enough of them out of the gravity field, so be it....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:12
ERLE (mozel 17:11, Silverbaron's Roosters) ID#190411:
I'm glad to see you back. i missed the post because of the hangup on Kitco, but it seems to be OK now.
I looked at the 4:22 post, and would like more info on a URL if you have one for this.
I want to learn what they have to say about the law.
----TIA
Silverbaron, I paid 7% over spot the last time I bought roosters.
FWIW, 20 Franc French, Swiss, Belgian, Italian 20 Lira coins are all .1867 oz.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:10
Selby (Adulterer Livingston I Presume) ID#286230:
http://www.rollcall.com/newsscoops/livingston.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:05
Donald (Impeach Greenspan ) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/n/z/z0003.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:05
Bill Buckler (The Butler Report - Oh Boy) ID#256381:
Here is an absolutely must read. It is a news story from the Washington Post published on December 16.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-12/16/125l-121698-idx.html

A free trial ( 5 issue ) subscription to The Privateer for the first email

I receive which includes the KEY paragraph in this article, in its entirety.

It's only one paragraph

email: capt@the-privateer.com

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:05
tolerant1 (longj, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:
apparently due to infidelity...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:03
HighRise (CNBC NEWS!!!!!) ID#401460:

Speaker of the House - Rep. Livingston may resign! Extra marital affair.
The FBI files are working for Clinton.

HighRise

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:03
CoolJing (Gollum: you are going to be wrong) ID#343171:
I will bet my crystal balls against yours that gold
will not have its best trading days tomorrow

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 19:00
longj (@t1) ID#30345:
Why? He isn't even there yet...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:57
tolerant1 (more news that effects gold pricing in an unstable world...Livingston is reported to) ID#20359:
be offering...right now...behind closed doors...his resignation as Speaker...ABC News...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:54
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .227. The 233 day moving average is .248

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:54
Silverbaron (longj) ID#290456:

A typical price for the Roosters these days seems to be somewhere around $68 - 70 each.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:52
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.46. The 233 day moving average is 29.32

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:51
Isure (Sheep) ID#368244:

I am having problems these days determining who the sheep are and who the wolves are.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:49
ROR (NEWS) ID#35770:
Gold was down as the CRB fell 4 pts and the dow skied. How do you spel C-O-N-F-I-D-E-N-C-E!!!!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:48
longj (had one too many) ID#30345:
Agbaron@myapologies.dork the tequila speaks louder than sense..what is a good price?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:45
Isure (Gold ) ID#368244:
Gold decline = producer selling=Why?
Swiss gold sales ?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:42
Silverbaron (longj) ID#290456:

Not advertising....I just thought it was a good buy for someone who might be interested in the Frenchies. Got mine already, thank you very much.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:38
kitkat (@Gollum - Bethlehem - The blood-dimmed tide is loosed) ID#237424:
Copyright © 1998 kitkat/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You couldn't stretch that to two good days in a row could you? Any gains made tomorrow will be quickly forgotten over the weekend as the sheep return to their euphoric Internet bleatings. BTW, JTF was most unkind to you when he accused you of being well attached to reality. On the contrary, our flights of fantasy have been supremely entertaining. Ditto for your latest prediction....Gold has sounded its death rattle and will decompose offensively as our collective future slouches towards Bethlehem.

The Second Coming

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:32
longj (@silverbaron) ID#30345:
Is this Agbaron@advertizing.dude or why don't yu buy it.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:29
Silverbaron (50 Gold (20 Franc) Rooster Lot at eBay) ID#290456:

Anyone thinking about getting a roll of the 20 Franc French Rooster coins....there is one at eBay that expires in about 4 hours ( #48521901 ) with a reserve price which is a couple dollars/coin lower than generally available. No bids on this as yet.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:17
EJ (Internet stock skeptics) ID#45173:
Check out:

http://www.itulip.com

Get yer Internet tulips!

-EJ


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:17
Highhopes (Economics 101 Supply and demand) ID#404241:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Too much gold; too little demand. Think about it. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp!
Those that make money are always aware of the supply/demand factor. They just don't sit around WISHING for good things to happen.

Highhopes

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:12
aurator (Paper trails.....ever felt like you're lost in the woods? ) ID#251181:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All
May I humbly ask that you spend some time to absorb these THOUGHTS.

From a flat earth to an heliocentric solar system, from walking on the moon to bombing Iraq, from fiat currency to a gold standard; the evolution of ideas:



The Life Cycle of an Idea by David A. Roach

( as published in Analog: Science Fiction and Fact, page 57, June 1998 )

1. The ignorant superstition of naked unwashed savages;

2. Outrageous blasphemy, and an affront to all which is right and holy;

3. Dangerously reckless speculation, but there may be a grain of fact in it somewhere;

4. Well, the obvious truth; so transparently self-evident, even a child could see it!

5. The commonly accepted explanation, true enough in most situations, but on very close inspection there are some serious loopholes;

6. Traditional and conventional lore, but to be honest about it, we just stick with it because nothing better has been formulated;

7. Obsolete thinking, pretty much discredited in enlightened circles, although a few die-hard supporters of the notion can be found;

8. Hilarious hokum, but the imbicilic delusions of by-gone days teach a broader lesson: it is unwise to accept anything, no matter how plausible, at face value;

9. The ignorant superstition of naked unwashed savages .





Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:10
longj (Rh goes digital?) ID#30345:
What happened to rhodium today. I always thought that the exotic catalysts would telegraph precious metals movements. Hum baby, is osmeone worried about solar cells, or are contact plating companies buying this stuff for christmas?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:00
longj (@gollum) ID#30345:
Having said that, and having respect for you. I must assume you have taken a position. I agree with your analysis of late. Let the cat out of the bag, if appropriate.

longj@gene.com

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 18:00
JTF (Good day for precious metals tomorrow?) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gollum: Usually you are quite well attached to reality. Are you willing to give us a reason, after someone or something so effectively trashed the gold markets today? All I can say is that there seems to be a weak upward trend forming over the last few days, despite the heavy-handed downward activity.

Long-term, WJC impeachment followed by a trial in the Senate will be bullish for gold. However, I don't think the markets realize yet that they are in trouble. Just in case, I bought some equity market calls to partially cover my long position in gold equities.

It is odd that the Congress seems to know how much trouble WJC is in -- but not the markets.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:54
TYoung (Gollum...hope that is good' shouting...) ID#317193:
Amazing how gold is held in a certain range as of late...wonder why? Everyone reads charts nowadays...perhaps time to fly a little blind.

Tom

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:50
tolerant1 (mozel, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...if people have their money in the system) ID#20359:
they are dead meat...without gold silver and tangibles as a backdrop anyone with money in the system will be at the mercy of that system and from where I sit...the system is run by liars, thieves and criminals.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:42
Gollum (@TYoung ) ID#43349:
In places, but mostly lots of shouting.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:37
TYoung (Gollum....does that include...comfort and joy?) ID#317193:
Tom

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:28
ChasAbar (This just in...) ID#340383:
Copyright © 1998 ChasAbar/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

A new plan to merge Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and Brazil with Puerto Rico, into a new U.S.A. state, called South North America. Instead of The U.S.A. or the I.M.F. doling out huge amounts that go to a bailout of international banks, the money will be spent on necessities of life, to keep the populace satisfied until the new state government can replace six to eight layers of bureaucracy times four. With the money saved, personal and business income taxes will be reduced by 97%, thus making it possible for those countries to survive on $4.00 per barrel oil and $1.00 per bushel wheat, etc. If the idea works, Peru will be in charge of converting all 51 U.S.A. states plus all the remaining countries in the hemisphere into Peruvian states. With similar cost-cutting procedures as those previously implemented, all states will do just fine, even after adding in the $145.00/ oz Gold price and $3.50/ oz Silver price. A llama head will be on the obverse of the new Gold coins, while the reverse will dislay a llama tail end. The whole thing is simple.

Everything that Kitcoites want to write concerning Gold and other precious metals is being posted. During slack times, I would rather read interesting, tangential posts, than see only several posts per hour. Free site to begin with, and the bonuses are, well, bonuses. Sometimes, something free is worth just that. Maybe even less. I'm beginning to feel quite comfortable scrolling right past the posts in which I have no interest. Just like the 50 pieces of junk mail which I dispose of, daily.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:27
Gollum (Be of good cheer for I bring great tidings) ID#43349:
Peering into my crystal ball, I see one of the best days of the year for the precious metals tomorrow.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:24
tolerant1 (This is not a mission...it is target practice...this president is way out of bounds...America) ID#20359:
has embarked under the leadership of a coward a hypocrite a politically driven psychopath, who, if he represents America, represents a country filled dullards.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:24
TYoung (PMSP....) ID#317193:
Copyright © 1998 TYoung/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold is as a spouse...as my mother would say to me in my youth...patience, my son, patience. When it is good...it is great...when it is bad...it is terrible.

Look on the bright side, we could be back to $275. Wait eight to ten weeks and if gold is still at this level or lower...pray and sell into any rally. The rest of the world is in chaos...expand your horizons...be patient.

Bart...did you get your old server back... new meaning to the word...slow. One can take a nap calling up and using this site...patience...lost.

Gollum...you might get us back to $285 just for the fun of it! We watch this old gold market together.

War...and the stock markets eruptus to the upside...tell me there is any sanity...NOT.

Smile, it could be worse...and may well...but only for a while.

Tom

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:24
James (Spent most of the day listeneng to the liars on CNBC. I can't stand to watch) ID#252150:
them, especially MA, who reminds me of a fat, ugly Hitler with a bleached mustache. She has the unmitigated gall to say that although they respect Ramadam, they may have to continue the bombing right into it.

Richard Butler is a nothing but a snivelling bureaucrat who is a disgrace to Australia & the Human Race. He would keep the inspections going forever, with children dying all around him. In some ways I find him even more despicable than Klinton.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:13
JP (A country bailed by the US or the IMF WILL not be bailed the second time around) ID#249232:
For example,look at Russia. Russia was bailed by the IMF to the tune of $21B and failed again. IMF will no longer bail Russia. They are done and on their own. Brazil is another example of a country recently bailed by the IMF. If Brazil fails again, no one will come to their rescue.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 17:11
mozel (Nothing Is As It Seems. ) ID#153110:
Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:22
mozel ( News of De Jure Government )

Read the above post at least to the part about calling in debt. The de facto government has no legs in the Constitution. The de jure government is forming among the people.

Read the posts of Silverbaron & myself regarding the 60 TRILLION hidden in CAFR.

The real news in America is unreported in the media.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 16:56
BillD (Today's new tidbit or TNT) ID#258427:
Went to the bank again today to cash a little check...and chatted with the teller...She was going through a bunch of 10's and 5's to try to find a decent one...one not all beatup ...said the Federal Reserve was sending them the crappest bills these days ... ones that would have been destroyed in the past ...hmmmmmm ... MUST BE SOME GOOD REASON for not destroying old beatup bills, eh....


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 16:31
JP (JTF: Impeachment proceedings will aggrevate the political chaos in Washington) ID#249232:
The gold sentiment indices are very negative. No one really believes that gold will rise in 1999. In the past, political chaos has always been very bullish for gold. Couple that with an ever increasing trade deficits, declining interest rates,a bear market in equities and a bottom in gold and you have an explosive completed base for a gold bull market.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 16:30
trader_vic (JP - OPEC) ID#372228:
Just think JP if you are right, that means that Mexico, Argentina, Venezaila, Brazil, et al will be in big trouble and will default on any loans they have outstanding...should be very interesting for RR and AG to float them more money...hell, we, the US citizen's, have plenty of money to give them...just add it to our bill, we'll pay for it later!!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 16:26
MoReGoLd (@Today) ID#348286:
What a Butt-Ugly day. We do much better when there is no military conflict or market turmoil. The market players ( shorters ) have this game all to themselves - up to now.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:51
JTF (Deflation) ID#254321:
JP: I think the best barometers for the US are Brazil and Mexico, given that there is so much US investment. If Oil continues to drop, Mexico will plummet.

If that happens, it is still possible that we will have another gold 'fire sale' similar to Oct 97. I hope not to fall asleep at the switch, and lose another bundle on gold equities.

Any idea how soon the impeachment proceedings will affect gold? I think a trial in the Senate might be very effective. All depends on how fast the bad news about WJC comes out.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:41
JP (OPEC is about to disintegrate) ID#249232:
Unable to cut oil production, oil prices will decline much further than anyone expect. As deflation intensifies, the oil producing countries will increase production to compensate for lower prices and reduced income levels creating a tremendous glut on the market. I suspect most of the marginal oil companies will go out of business. A rash of failures will flood the oil producing states and provinces in the US and Canada.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:39
JTF (Gold and Silver cycles) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gazebo: I can add a little bit to what will happen with gold, once the 'powers that be' let go. Given that the 'fiat' currency crowd hates gold with a passion, and will do anything to push it down, investing in precious metals can get very frustrating. The deflationary scenario we are in right now doesn't help.

There are a number of factors that will make gold go up -- long term.

1 ) The end of deflation. When this happens, the Fed will expand the money supply -- just like in 1932 or so. And gold/gold equities will shine.

2 ) Cycles -- there are 30,60,90,120 year cycles in Silver, which coalesce around 2010-2015. I am not so confident about gold, but it should be similar. The peak in precious metals will be a strong one -- probably as much as $2000/oz. US for gold.

3 ) Baby boomers -- The baby boomer cycle will peak around 2015, and the population will shift from spending to retirement. This will make a big dent in equities, and the entitlements.

5 ) National debt -- exponential growth will return. The US FED has no choice but to inflate the US dollar to get us out of the entitlement noose we have made for ourselves, to come due about the time the baby bommers retire. Currently the federal debt is about 25 trillion ( official plus entitlements ) and the private debt is about 20 trillion.

So that is the very long term trend in precious metals. Shorter term, we can expect some mice rallies fairly soon -- as the 2 year gold bear is ending. Many of the Gold producer excutives have jumped in during the last major gold bottom -- and are presumably waiting for the pending rise-- possibly delayed by deflationary events. All depends on how fast the US dollar drops during these deflationary times. If it drops fast enough, the US dollar will inflate -- even now. Could be -- because we are up to our eyeballs in debt.

As someone else who used to post here would say --

Together we wait and see -- don't we?


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:27
NTEOTWAWKI (@Gazebo) ID#389387:
I can unequivocally state that gold will rise.

Then fall.

Then rise some more.

Then ... well you get the picture.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:12
neer-do-well (Lefty Kiwi) ID#391172:
Copyright © 1998 neer-do-well/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good average dose of cephalexin is 500 mg every six hours for an adult, for a mild infection 250 mg, for a very severe or dangerous infection up to 1000 mg every six hours. Children get 250mg. It is very similar to penicillin and the same cautions apply, mainly to use a full course of the drug,ie 8- 10 days, otherwise it's possible to create a drug resistant infection for yourself.

Vets often perscribe it for hot spots on dogs, a red hot spot on a dog that grows and grows and ends in ugly death. Works like a charm. It's broad spectrum and good for internal infections ( urniary ) at 500 mg every 12 hours. Like any other medication watch for rashes, tummy aches, or any unpleasant side-effects. Not likely thjo, that's why it's good.

Watched Yabinsky on Charlie Rose last night. YES, I wish we had such politicians. Russia might we come out of the spin with a guy like that. If he is elected it will do great credit to the people, I wish we could do so well. They could be ahead of us.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:11
tolerant1 (Greenspan wannabes...) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
With a scanner and printer, father and daughter go on spending spree

Copyright © 1998 Nando Media
Copyright © 1998 The Associated Press

MIDLAND, Mich. ( December 17, 1998 2:52 p.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com ) -- An unemployed man and his teen-age daughter literally made a little extra money for Christmas, police say.

They allegedly counterfeited 20s and 50s on their home computer and went shopping for Barbie dolls, tools and food at at least three stores.

But the printing was off a hair -- just enough to catch the attention of a Sears cashier at the Midland Mall.

Donald Allan Gill, 45, and Roze I. Gill, 17, of Fairgrove were arrested last Friday. They were freed Tuesday on $50,000 bail each. Gill could get 15 years in prison if convicted, his daughter up to 12 years.

The high school senior told police that her father used a computer scanner and printer to make sheets of counterfeit bills and that she cut out the funny money. Police recovered $2,830 in bogus bills.

In the past, a counterfeiter was a master engraver who worked long hours to get his copies just right.

Now those skills aren't required anymore, with the advent of Bill Gates and Microsoft, said Secret Service agent Jack Johnson. Now anybody can be a counterfeiter.

He said he spends 30 percent to 50 percent of his time investigating counterfeit-by-computer cases. The advent of the computer age has spawned what we call the casual counterfeiter, Johnson said.

At the mall where father and daughter allegedly passed the counterfeit money, shopper Penny Conn observed, It's scary what they can do with a computer.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 15:04
JTF (At the Turning point. Clinton's Credibility: A Dried-Out Reservoir) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/121798iraq-assess.html

All -- today may not seem like very much, as the Gold manipulators are still in control as Allen ( USA ) says. But -- just think for a minute -- can you remember when the mood of the media and Congress were more pro-impeachment than today? They tire of the lies coming out of the White House.

And -- just a few days ago WJC was in Palestine, trying to cement the peace deal that he orchestrated a month or so before.

Now -- I am not pleased that the US presidency has reached a new low -- near Christmas 1998 when the time should be joyous. But -- I am pleased that Congress is once again showing the American spirit once again. Perhaps we are still a government of three strong branches -- executive, legislative, and judicial. And -- perhaps our news media are finally breaking out of their shell and reporting the news as it is, rather than through rose-colored glasses.

It seems that the US people have woken up, and have finally realized that our leader has warts. Or -- that the emporer has no clothes. Today for the first time in a long time, I would be proud to have a conversation with Abraham Lincoln -- and say: 'Today the American people have seen through the veil of lies, and they are seeking the truth'.

Yes - gold may not be going the right direction today -- the 'truth' is still not fully evident. But the glimmer is there. What we must remember is that at the peak of every cycle is the foundation for the next one. I think I'm going to like one aspect of what is happening in the last few days -- the truth matters once again. The veil has lifted. Too bad it took us nearly 7 years to realize that we have been duped by the master of lies. We may have to accept a 'hangover' of some kind as atonement for our folly.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:56
Gazebo (P.O.G. in the comeing decade........) ID#432298:
Anyone have a viewpoint on whether the price of gold in the coming decade will ever increase? It is obvious the precious metal's price is manipulated, there is every reason to date that it should be at levels much higher than it is at now. Think about it.... the conflict in Iraq and the President's impeachment proceedings, etc. What is it going to take? I have been saying all along, it will take an act of war or a full blown recession!!!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:45
truenorth (Gold News) ID#189269:
Copyright © 1998 truenorth/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I dont know if this has been posted. This news from Switzerland regarding

a vote by the Lower House of the Swiss Parliament combined with what Rhody discussed this morning about lease rates rising as gold is aquired from CB's to dump onto the market would be consistent with what we have seen in todays price action. The artcile does't explain this because the author Patrick Chalmers seeks out those bearish on Gold as a rule. However the lower house vote will be followed by a vote by the upper house in the first quarter of '99. If this vote is passed there will be a referendum sometime in early 2000 which requires a 2/3 majority to pass. The Swiss have also stated that if they achieve this mandate they will sell 500 of the 1300 tonnes of gold they consider surplus over a period of 10 years so tha tit has minimal impact on the Gold markets. This is what they said last year and I don't know if they will reiterate these viewpoints. Don't hold your breath on the mainstream media providing this info if last years coverage of this process is any guide.

Here is the link: http://www.infoseek.com/Content?arn=a2384LBY231reulb-19981217&qt=gold&sv=IS&lk=noframes&col=NX&kt=A&ak=news1486

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:38
aurator (Apthocaries-R-Us) ID#251181:
Lefty
Cephalexin is marketed in NZ by Eli Lily as Keflex. recommended dose is 250mg 6-hourly. ( From New Ethicals )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:36
Jack (Earl@14:16) ID#254288:

Excellent. Your vision cuts right through the bullcrap.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:31
Gazebo (Ridgerunner) ID#432298:
I am experiencing the same difficulty at Kitco. Extremely long time for each page at this site to load, etc.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:29
aurator (Watching Baghdad being bombed into oblivion while eating breakfast--the 20th century's almost over..) ID#251181:
Lefty
Apart from a couple of days in the Bay of Plenty, we're hanging around awkland. Beer and Barbie by the pool sounds great. Trust the rain to arrive just in time for the weekend. Gimme a call!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:22
lefty kiwi (Neer do Well) ID#32176:
Re Cephalexin thanks for the info ..
what dosage and for how long for Homo Sapien animal ?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:16
Earl (Of fools. Motley and otherwise.) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
WJC is but a malleable figure head for the moneyed interests who actually control matters in what's left of this once great republic. As the rag doll du jour, it matters little whether he remains or is ejected........ Ceremoniously or unceremoniously.

The true power to effect the course of POG lies in the hand of AG and RR. They are the true and only representatives of power in the US. All others pale by comparison.

Unrelenting commentary concerning the peregrinations of political empty suits serves only to distract. If it's important to the future of the US, there is probably a Usenet group dedicated to it. .... ( probably right next door to the group devoted to discussing the peculiar twist in the presidential crank ) . ..... But, IMO, it lends absolutely nothing to a rational appraisal of the problems confronting precious metals or stuff in general.

At the end of the day, the issue remains one of money and the exercise of absolute power. Not sexual pecadillos. Potential bankruptcy and financial chaos. Not presidential prevarication.

Continuing to fixate on the scandal is to concentrate on the fake and not the ball. ...... Then again, I believe that's what they have in mind.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:15
lefty kiwi (Aurator) ID#32176:
Good morning mate
some nice golf courses in Invercargill though
Also the cheaper the House the more gold I can buy
Dullsville ... not with Mayor Tim surely .
World War 111 Armageddon scenario ....World Government from Invercargill... Tim Shadbolt . President of the World

Are you going away over Christmas , if not I expect a visit some time ,
a few cold ones by the pool barbecue etc ....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:14
Ridgerunner (Kitco Log-on problems) ID#356379:
Is anyone other than me experiencing log-on problems in the past couple of days? It takes a long time for anything to come up, and the top and side quote frames are blank except for messages about Extend Failed.

This kind of thing always seems to happen when the PMs are active.

Back to the still,

RidgeRunner

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:14
Gollum (Anyone going down?) ID#35571:
Getting near close out time.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:07
neer-do-well (Cherokee et all) ID#391172:
Watch tetracycline if it gets old it becomes very toxic to liver. The worst antibiotic to keep. Keep Cephalexin, 500mg tabs, .30 per cap froma vet.

It's obvious, I finally figured out why the gold is priced this-a-way. The US priced gold at $35 in 1933 and would redeem dollars at that rate until an alarming amount of gold left the country. That's exactly whats happening now only the price is around $300. If enough gold leaves the vault at that rate, the rate will change, so who's doing this? Easy.

People are taking gold and grain around here, it's a comin.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 14:00
aurator (Dullsville) ID#251181:
Lefty
Invercargill may be the safest populated town on the planet, it is also the dullest. If it weren't for Bluff oysters, and an Aluminium smelter, Invercargill would have no reason to be. Mind you, houses are real cheap. If you buy one you might never be able to sell it ( experience of friends )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:55
JP (Deflation is accelerating--Commodities resuming their decline) ID#249232:
The CRB is declining again after a 2 days rally. In deflation all commodities will decline ( including interest rates ) to some very low levels except for gold. Gold is a monetary metal hoarded by central banks to back up currencies. How many central banks do you know that hoard soybeans or copper ? Gold is holding well in the 290-295 level and will begin to rise early in 1999. Right now, there is heavy tax loss selling in gold by some uninformed people but the XAU is holding in the mid sixties.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:55
lefty kiwi (Cherokee) ID#32176:
I am with you man
Got Gold grub and tetracycline ( not guns , I don't like killing
things )
If only I could sell my house and shift to Invercargill ( NZ's Southernmost City ) and IMHO the safest Populated place on the planet for the next few years .

Ladybug .....IMHO war is a gold related subject .

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:52
tolerant1 (lady_bug, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...is that not the entire matter...belief systems) ID#20359:
are oh so very fragile...I on the other hand find it easy to believe that it was penned by a 16 year old...but then again I think that not all of America's youth are a bunch of public school... false...self esteemed louts...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:45
John Disney (Cyberspace speak with forked tongue) ID#24135:
.. O cherokee my brother ..
I hate to tell you this .. but you are
looking at yesterday's prices ..

.. O cage rattler ..
I think our rugby team can beat our
police force ..

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:44
summicron (Monica to the Rescue!) ID#280246:

CNN reports that Russian legislators want to pass a motion appealing to Monica to undertake measures to restrain the emotions of Bill Clinton. The Duma has approved the motion. Even in Russian those measures are not specified.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:43
lady_bug (Tolerant1) ID#320202:
hard to believe a 16 year old american student wrote that !!
hmmmmmmmmm indeed , hard to believe !
namaste to everyone
l_b

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:38
lady_bug (LGB) ID#320202:
sh#t, meantime Gold went down over 3 bucks, darn, now what did Clinton do now

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:36
LGB (Oil / Gold / Bill CLinton) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
One of the ONLY points ANOTHER was correct on was that there has always been a link between Gold's fortunes and oil prices. Witness yesterday's run-up and today's decline...in Oil AND Gold in equal measure.

Same with oil stocks and Gold / Silver mining shares. I know...I saw SII stock rise 10% yesterday and drop 10% today. Same with SSC, and SSRIF.

To the FOOLS and sanctimonoius folks who undoubtedly voted for that shameless lying slimeball Clinton, here's a FOOLish article from Motley FOOL.


The Lunchtime News

Dec 17, 1998

FOOL PLATE SPECIAL
An Investment Opinion
by Brian Graney

Coal in the Oil Stocking

Investors in oil and gas services and contract drilling firms have been on a share price seesaw
all year long as the price of the benchmark near-month West Texas Intermediate crude oil
futures contract has fluctuated between a high closing price of $17.82 a barrel on Jan. 29 and a
low price of $10.72 a barrel on Dec. 10. This morning, the seesaw gyrated wildly like a empty
oil barrel in rough surf on news that yesterday's U.S.-led airstrikes against Iraq did no damage
to Iraq's oil production infrastructure. In response, oil prices fell, sending several oil and gas
services firms and contract drillers down as the yearlong global oil supply glut persists.

Among the firms taking it on the chin this mornings were services firms such as
Schlumberger ( NYSE:SLB - news ) , which slipped $2 3/8 to $44 5/16, BJ Services
( NYSE:BJS - news ) , which sank $1 to $15 1/16, and Smith International ( NYSE:SII - news )
, which slumped $2 3/16 to $25 1/8. Among the contract drillers, Rowan Companies
( NYSE:RDC - news ) drifted down $1 5/16 to $10 1/8, R&B Falcon ( NYSE:FLC - news ) slid
$1 1/16 to $8 13/16, and Global Marine ( NYSE:GLM - news ) fell $1 1/16 to $9 15/16.
Yesterday, those same companies had all posted gains on expectations that some of the bombs
dropped on Iraq might hinder Iraq's oil production industry, which is responsible for about 3%
of the world's supply. On that speculation, oil prices on the New York Mercantile Exchange
experienced their biggest one-day percentage jump since September, putting hopes into the
sparkling eyes of oil traders that there may be a Santa Claus after all, and he may deliver higher
oil prices along with the rest of his presents just in time for Christmas.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:35
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...read this please...thank you...) ID#20359:
http://www.tv-u.com/edit16.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:34
EZ Believer (LGB...Give it to em.....Your on a roll !!!!) ID#173262:


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:32
lady_bug (to whom it may concern) ID#320202:
Copyright © 1998 lady_bug/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
.....a senior congressional source, who asked not to be named, said ........ah , why is he hiding......so it is just hearsay, ..not good enough for me!
I believe ,Gold will rise when AG and R let's it, and when the pressure from europe get's too big, and the TA looks better and Clinton does not fart etc. etc. ooooops, excuse my language.

I am a goldbug since 3 years and since about one year almost only in Gold
I am very much interested that that bloody metal finally get's going !
I don't believe that Clinton's escapades did much to gold ! rather more to some folks blood pressure ! I do believe it is manipulated by and with some force by american interests who rule the world !
.....but you don't hear me complain, if I could not stand it, I would not be in that hot kitchen,
it is all a game , and we are playing

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:32
cherokee (@...war.room.with.the.elders.....sharpening.that.which.was.never.dull....) ID#343449:

crb lighting up like a christmas tree

http://www.bmiquotes.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/dbcfiles/curcommt.html?source=core/bmi

chaos and flux will chase it--crb--to the moon...soon the
grains will jump on board as they are massacred by the
weather...look at the crude one.....up 7%.....

who has their tetracycline?

cherokee!;..md....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:27
Cage Rattler (Only in South Africa) ID#33182:
Today robbers held up a police station, stealing guns, etc.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:21
LGB (@ Allen............re Lady Bug, Mooney, Earl, et al) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Re your 13:00..a hearty amen.

As to those complaining about the discussion of Bill C., and stating that's it's irrelevant on this forum.... ha! Bill C.'s politically motivated war decisions these past 2 days, have done more to move Gold up ( yesterday ) and DOWN ( today ) than than ANY single other factor has done in weeks.

Claiming that Bill C. is unrelated to Gold and markets is laughable.

I suspect there is some smarmy sanctimonious sentiment behind these Kitco should rise above Bill C. talk...maybe some folaks who support this dispicable creature we unfortunately have as leader of the world's only remaining superpower.

I will unrepentantly discuss Bill C. here, unless and until other factors come along which have greater influence in these markets.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:17
rube (xau) ID#333127:
I have been waiting for the xau to drop to around 60 to buy. Both ABX and NEM have been making higher lows for about 2 wks now. IMHO the next leg will be up. Still I will wait for end of tax selling unless see xau@60 ish

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:12
tolerant1 (Dr. Strangelove...yup...uh huh...) ID#20359:
http://www.worldtribune.com/index-tease-front.html

http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981217/V000314-121798-idx.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:11
Allen(USA) (Gold in control (VIX for gold)) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
$290 to 295 spot. That is the allowed range. Someone has a very strong hand and very little opposition here. When the other players digress, then we will see more conflict reflected in volatility of price. When it becomes more clear that there is no future .. then price will be out of control ( upward ) . The price and its activity is like a heart monitor on the combined geo-political contentions of the powers. Right now there is alot of willingness to let gold be contained. My gut says we will see this till January 1999, when things will diverge ( verses convergence of price and activity ) . Plot the VIX for gold. It is very LOW and has been as we have been drawing close to the Euro introduction.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:05
LGB (IRAQ...Differences between Bush and Clinton) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Someone asked me this morning what the difference is between Bush's war on Iraq, and Clinton's. Seems obvious to me.

Bush responded to Iraq's unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country.

Bush procured full congressional approval IN ADVANCE

Bush carefully built an unprecedented coalition of international support

Bush had no pilitical firtunes riding on the timing of the attack

Bush had the respect of the military as Commander in Chief

Bush already knew the sting of war. Having served in WW2, having been shot out of the sky, TWICE, having served this nation heroically in battle.....


Contrast Clinton....

Military knowledge and service? Nooo... Clinton has the respect of virtually NO ONE in the U.S. This Lying, draft dodging, draft dodge cover up fomenting, piece of excrement... has no credibility.

Saddam should have been hot 5 crises ago...not on the day of the full house Impeachment debate.

Anyone who believes that this lying cornered psychopathic rat Clinton, has anytihng but his own interest at heart in this matter, ismply has their head buried deep in Iraqui sand.

This mission is called Desert Fox? More like Desert Fu** if you ask me. Never thought I'd see the day when I could not be supportive of this nation's president attacking an out of control, WMD producing madman like Saddam. It took Bill C. to do it.

Far

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:04
snowbird (CRB Index chart indicating major breakout point on oil and gas) ID#220325:
http://www.securitytrader.com/frontpagemisccharts.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:00
Allen(USA) (Dear lady_bug,) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I appreciate the variety of discussion on this site. Everyone is here primarily because they have an interest in gold one way or another. IMHO neither gold nor those who are interested in it live in one dimensional universes. Gold and politics. Gold and economics. Gold and people's beliefs and values. Its all interrelated.

I'd like to hear more from you if you have more to share about the gold scene. Frankly, it seems to me that we have talked through quite alot of issues and strategies here. Much time recently ( past 6 to 9 months ) we have been waiting to see something other than 'gold on a leash'. And wait we must.

In the mean time there will be digressions until something sharpens our focus. Now if you have a tasty theory or piece of information to toss to these rather bored gold bugs, then by all means proceed.

IMO to call this site down because it doesn't meet your expectations is a bit overdone.

All my humble and inconsequencial opinion.

Yours,

Allen ( USA )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 13:00
Gollum (@lady_bug ) ID#35571:
A good indicator would be to plot gold related content over total content. I bet it would correlate quite nicely with volume on the trading floor.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:49
lady_bug (HELP) ID#320202:
some sex deprived jealous rednecks have taken over
sheesh

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:39
Isure (Without Warning) ID#421269:
Copyright © 1998 Isure/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The cameras of CNN and CNBC were humming, the announcers were gleefully broadcasting shots of downtown Bagdad and pronouncing that the missles would soon be there. The people of Bagdad were moving listfully around as if this were old hat, and seemed to know exactly where not to be. Sadam was nestled in his bunker with his camera crews on standby so that he could denounce the american ruler and all that he stands for. This would be great for many documentaries and would be almost comical, if not for the people that must die to sustain two madmens quest for never ending power. Yes the events of this evening had been planned with great care.

Sleep well Jack, and Aleck for yor president has once again proved that any end jusifies the means as long as the liberal socialist way of life can be maintained, and your great humanatarism is exalted in the flames.

Gold you little pig, oink, oink.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:33
lady_bug (the content in this group) ID#320202:
should be related to gold or other precious metals as a commodity or financial
instrument. .

THIS SITE BECAME PATHETIC

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:28
NTEOTWAWKI (@Khamba) ID#389387:
Free will.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:13
Year2000 (Republican Conspiracies) ID#222107:
Copyright © 1998 Year2000/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Why can’t everyone see these Republican conspiracies to discredit our president? Those nasty Republicans sent Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones and all of the other women to the White House to do all of those EVIL things to our wonderful President.

The Republicans also sent those little Chinese guys to contribute all of that money to Clinton’s campaign. ( They probably put it in the same envelopes with the contributions from Chelsea’s Sunday School class! ) Missle technology? Sure, give them all they want. It'll be cheaper for the US military to have the missles manufactured in China! ( Remember we're in a SERVICE economy. Missles are only MANUFACTURED! )

Now that I've vented my sarcasm for today, let me get serious. Clinton shouldn’t be thrown out of office for any ONE thing for which he is accused. Put them all together, and there’s enough evidence. He’s sick. What type of man exposes his penis to a woman he just met, and when he gets sued for it, continues the same behavior?

There’s a crew in the White House hatching a strategy to blame the Republicans for this whole mess. And it will probably be successful. What will happen to the markets if the impeachment process drags out for a few months?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:08
LGB (War...Bad for Gold) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Bill C.'s war, has been bad for POG. I have noticed a phenomenon over the past decade and a half. Whether it's Argentina, Panama, the Gulf war, Bosnia, Somalia, or our several other skirmishes with Iraq.

The day and hour that someone starts firing weapons Gold and the dollar both rise. Then there follows a Backlash effect as investor disappointment sets in over lack of follow through to panic buying. And Gold settles lower than where it began.

It's been a consistent pattern. I hesitate to even mention market movements related to these things...It seems unseemly...as it makes me NAUSEOUS that the serious business of violence and killing is now srictly a political tool in the hands of a dangerous, cornered, soulless rat.....

but it is a pattern nonetheless.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:07
Selby (Munk Makes Money) ID#286230:
http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/dec17_trizechahn_cp.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:05
JTF (US Markets resuming rally? Could be -- for now. ) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: I think the markets have already discounted the Iraq situation, and the impeachment situation. That is probably why gold is down today. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks. We may not see any real turmoil in the US equity markets until next year when the WJC trial begins in earnest.

Anyone have any idea just how strong the current rally in gold/gold equities is ( was ) ? I am keeping one somewhat uneasy eye on Brazil -- probably a good early warning indicator of big time deflationary trouble. As long as Brazil is relatively stable I will keep my gold equities position.

I suspect that Saddam will not do anything foolish like lobbing something into Israel, because he will try to get the maximum mileage of being the 'innocent' target of US aggression.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:04
Envy (XAU) ID#219363:
Down nearly 4 percent.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EXAU&d=t

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 12:01
Allen(USA) (JTF, indeed!) ID#246224:
Every slight movement toward the better is appreciated. Let the cleansing begin.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:58
Khamba (War) ID#269231:

WJC just had Monica unleash a mega pent up load Mr. Husseins way.
Yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. End.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:54
lefty kiwi (If Saddam is as dangerous as Clinton would have us believe) ID#32176:
Copyright © 1998 lefty kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Surely he has a trick up his sleeve
an anthrax attack maybe on some US citys water supply .

If he does this it is world war three
One billion Muslims can say ..... Mummy he hit me first
The West will say see I told you so ...we had to hit him , he always planned to harm us .

The Nation with the largest Stockpile of weapons of mass destruction ?
USA .............. the only nation ever to use Nuclear weapons

It would have been better to have killed Saddam with kindness to the Iraqi people rather than sanctions .

Drop millions of dollars worth of food and supplies on them not millions of dollars worth of missiles
Too late now .

379 days to Y2K
How many days to Nuclear Winter

Unfortunately the NZ government will involve us in war also

I despair for us all

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:50
Envy (Trade Deficit Narrows to $14.2B) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- A big jump in sales of soybeans, wheat and other American farm products helped offset a rise in U.S. purchases of foreign cars and oil, narrowing the trade deficit for a second straight month. The Commerce Department reported today that the October deficit fell 1.2 percent to $14.2 billion, the lowest level since April. Even with the improvements in September and October, the overall deficit is still running at a record annual rate of $167 billion, far above last year's gap of $110.2 billion, as the Asian financial crisis continues to batter key parts of the American economy. The politically sensitive deficit with Japan shot up to the highest level in more than 2 1/2 years while the deficit with China for the year continued to run at a record level. Since March, American manufacturers have laid off 198,000 manufacturing workers, reflecting a plunge in exports to Asia. Additionally, farmers are facing their hardest economic times in a decade because spreading recessions covering 40 percent of the global economy have depressed demand and pushed down commodity prices.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1n.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:48
Khamba (let-m-fly yanky wanker) ID#269231:

God chooses our destiny, fools, God will choose yours.
Sheep go to heaven
Goats go to hell
Capricorns.............Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:44
Cyclist (hal) ID#339274:
trading stock of choice,gave another buy signal for today .

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:36
JTF (Hillary's behaviour a good barometer of what is to come) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Have you all noticed that Hillary is no longer even publically showing affection to WJC? I think this is the most clear indication that impeachment is imminent -- he is no longer of any use to her career.

I heard Dale Bumpers talk on the radio this AM -- I have always liked listening to him -- I think he is far more honest than the average politician. To my amazement, he said without a moments's hesitation that WJC will be impeached -- and he is a Democrat. He implied that the tide is shifting in the Senate as well, though the 2/3 majority vote is not there yet.

So -- the die is cast -- and any 'Wag the Dog' shenanigans will not work. I agree with esotericist that the issue with Iraq is far more complex than 'Wag the Dog' even if it appears that WJC was the cause of this action. Historical trends are now working against WJC for some reason -- he has lost his teflon coat.

I wonder -- perhaps the reason that WJC is in so much trouble is because he listened too much to Hillary ( with the exception of his weakness with the ladies ) . Hillary is the far more dangerous one who sees ( or creates ) conspiracies under every bush. Good thing that WJC has little of Hillary's drive, or we would be under martial law already.

Sadly, I agree with Tolerant1 that terrorist attacks will be coming to US soil -- eventually. The world is getting smaller and smaller, and the US has had some success in keeping a lid on potential hotspots -- but at a price -- due in part to our own ineptitude/corruption regarding foreign policy -- and in part due to historical trends beyond our control.

I have always been intrigued by how the broad strokes of history seem to be made, irrespective of the actions of the players. Sometimes actions due to selfish motives still have a beneficial effect longterm. WJC is now caught up in what is to be, as are the rest of us. We must make the best of what is to come, and try to change things for the better when we can.

We still have a chance to regenerate our government as it was defined in our Constitution and in our Amendments. I wish I could say that I was confident that the cleansing process will be complete -- but -- any progress will be appreciated.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:30
cherokee (@......the.shard.on.the.moon.......) ID#288231:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

the war curve....we are way ouside.

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/mewar.htm

the big picture.....

http://nw3.nai.net/~virtual/sot/dow8000b.htm

the media...and their lies...

http://www.fas.org/2000/conspiracy_commerce.htm

russia........and her motives...

http://www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/russ.htm

the war curve........history tells the tale..
the future holds the truth....who is prepared
for these truths?

chaos and flux have ridden into town with their
eyes ablaze...they go their own ways...as there
is much to do...the tools of death, spread round
the world, awaiting their beck and call...nukes
and bios for lunch......carnage enough for all....

cherokee!;..riding.the.winds.of.war....tttaihfy...ianlatst!





Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:29
esotericist (Oops. I made the triple post club.) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This servers's disco-ducked. I didn't mean to. And the first time I took a look, post-post so to speak - it was only there once ? Mmmmm

Mooney...I don't know if I'm right about this wacky little theory. But the stooges on CNBC have been pushing the gold is dead routine VERY PERSISTENTLY today. A classic deception ploy. ( The oldest ) . First make a semi-plausible link between GOLD and some factor - today some notion of people's political fears ( what the hell is that supposed to mean ? )

Then destroy the validity of the link. Folks the world over don't have political fears these days. QED.

Even that fat bastard Mark Haynes had to get in his twopennyworth in about how gold is an irrelevant relic these days. Heaven forbid it were to get out of hand ....before ( according to my theory ) they've a ) placed their bets and b ) got their alibis all neatly worked out. It'll end up looking like a game of musical chairs when the music stops.

The CNBC talkinghead's approach is pure self interest. When equities tank for 5 years they won't a ) have much to talk about or b ) feel like genius souperstars or c ) get much advertising revenue to a discredited casino game or d ) be able to show their faces in their respective deli's.....

never mind - They've got Y2K to hide behind later next year. Blame the cmoputer nerds. Silicon Valley fits the script.

In this analysis, if the Clinton impeachment is directly linked to the final act - The Meltdown - the old money ( mainly Republican though this is not a party line thang ) end up looking bad. Mean spirited is one thing, but to be directly responsible for committing equity suicide is quite another. It's a very high stakes game.

I wonder if WJC or more likely his missus, have any really cute tricks up their sleeve to try and buy back their souls. Gore can only pardon them. The devil will still have bragging rights. Some final desperate mea culpa but they - naming names - made me do it - And To hell with the personal consequences somehow.

But maybe the Russians will oblige. The Chinese are too busy and indirectly manipulative to get involved. And the Japanese ( old money crowd ) are keeping their powder dry in the hope of picking up the ( gold ) pieces when somebody tips over the table.

So....in answer to your question. I don't know. My guess...Yes, equities HAVE to tank first. They all need an outside excuse ( alibi ) that will leave them smelling of roses and the new money boys politically discredited for a half generation. The Euro, similarly analysed would probably have old money new money implications.

Gosh we live in interesting times.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:19
panda (Gollum) ID#50148:
Copyright © 1998 panda/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1 ) Kitco Server is PAINFULLY S L O W...

2 ) If the tulip stocks blow-up, then this bodes ill, yeah verily ill, for the overall markets.

3 ) I was just looking over some of the writings of Scott Ritter. The actions taken in the Iraq 'thing' are late indeedy. My opinion is 'Wag the Dog'. Ritter quit over the Administration blocking the UNSCOM teams investigation. No matter what the evidence, more evidence was demanded. It is either bungling of the highest order, or political postioning for this 'event' in Washington. Funny how Berger, Albright, and Clinton supressed the evidence now cited as the reason for the current mission.

Me think Administration speaked with forked tongue..... What else in new? Impeach and remove.

Current news on the Euro pegs it as initially stronger than the dollar. Curiouser and curiouser. Perhaps the best investment in gold, is in coins

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:17
Silverbaron (Looks like these guys nailed it a month ago....) ID#288466:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3675f60409d2.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:09
ALBERICH (@esotericist (Wag the Dog is a play within a play.)) ID#212197:
Thanks for your wonderful post. ( I think from 9:08, right? )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:09
Gollum (@BillD ) ID#35571:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Perhaps. Certainly this market is range bound between 292 and 295, but volume is basically a matter of interest. If a lot of people want to buy ( or sell ) at some moment in time, the volume goes up. If you were a player on the other side wanting to keep the market range bound, you would have to meet the market with counter orders of your own. Given deep enough pockets you could hold the range or indeed, even drive the price whatever direction you wanted.

But the volume would go up.

Very light volume means very little interest.

True, given very light volume it is easy to move prices around, but still that's only because there is no flood of buyers and sellers.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 11:08
Gollum (@BillD ) ID#35571:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Perhaps. Certainly this market is range bound between 292 and 295, but volume is basically a matter of interest. If a lot of people want to buy ( or sell ) at some moment in time, the volume goes up. If you were a player on the other side wanting to keep the market range bound, you would have to meet the market with counter orders of your own. Given deep enough pockets you could hold the range or indeed, even drive the price whatever direction you wanted.

But the volume would go up.

Very light volume means very little interest.

True, give very light volume it is easy to move prices around, but still that's only because there is no flood of buyers and sellers.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:51
Gollum (@panda ) ID#35571:
Merrill must be getting worried about their Amazon short position.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:50
Cage Rattler (Financial turmoil at year end in Europe ?) ID#33184:
Several large interbank players have said they will NOT quote interbank prices in the legacy currencies ( those to be in the EURO ) during the final week of this month. They will only quote to their own customers and then at a much wider spread. The fear is that the EURO clearing system will not work and cause a major problem in the markets.

Be very careful. You may want to confirm with your counterparty before you plan to carry any positions.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:47
BillD (Hey Gollum) ID#258427:
Seems as though one could engineer light volume by range bounding a market...ie...discourage longs and shorts by makeing gold range bounded at 290-300...in effect destroying the market ... no incentive to trade in a market that is going nowhere...eh..

btw...love your posts and insights...keep up the good stuff...

cheers

bd

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:47
Gollum (@hugo) ID#35571:
Yeah, plenty of time.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:47
jinx44 (A tolerant1 diatribe) ID#57290:
Copyright © 1998 jinx44/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dude----good post. You are very cogent with your statement on Clintler amd the harm that he has set the American people up for. WJC has all but guaranteed that US citizens will die for his greater glory. The US is an outlaw nation based on its' actions against other legitimate governments. We should be getting bombed for all the crap we manufacture to support our corrupt leaders and profligate lifestyles. The only other DEMOCRACY that went through the full spectrum of government was Germany in the 1930s. We are devolving into a fascist police state as well. Our reward for stepping off the path of individual responsibility and constitutional republicanism. I wonder what the Romans thought as they watched their civil order decay into chaos? Gold Guns Guts ( to do the right thing )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:41
panda (Mooney, just to clear the air on Amazing books on the net...) ID#50148:
08:55 [AMZN] MERRILL SAYS AMAZON WAY OVERPRICED; SHARES REALLY WORTH $50: CNBC.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:28
hugo (Gollum) ID#404312:

Thanks for stopping the train...uh mind if I go back in the station for a snack? It'll only be a minute.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:22
ALBERICH (The Wording of the Speaches with which Tony Blair and Bill Clinton,) ID#212197:
informed their nations about their decision to bomb Iraq, were almost identical. The two leading apparatchkies of the western world obviously obeyed to a common government behind their backs, which dictated to them the papers which they had to read to the public. Tony Blair started reading 15 minutes before Clintler. Obviously, Clintler first wanted to make sure...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:13
TYoung (Haggis....) ID#317193:
Aye, lad. I think you've got it. Hold on to your pretty. When gold is called upon to solve the financial disaster the revaluation will be most interesting.

Mining companies who have sold forward will be in for a touch of trouble. Hope yours is safe.

We watch and wait.

Tom

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 10:04
Mooney* (Goooooooodddd Morrrrrrrnnnnnnninnnnnnnnng WORLD - (How's the War Going?)) ID#350194:
Copyright © 1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Say Tolerant1 - Don't hold back now. Tell us your REAL feelings! ;- )
esotericist - So, looking ahead, does Gold go down from here so that there is complete capitulation of any remaining bulls and so that this power group can load up some more before the ultimate rise?
This would fit in with my current belief that this stock bubble must burst before the ultimate rise in gold begins.

Check this out, ( from www.stockgroup.com ) :

AMAZON SHARES REACH OVER $300 ON ANALYSTS' TARGET
Late in trading today Amazon.com shares reached as high as $301.75 based on
CIBC Oppenheimer analyst Henry Blodget's target price of $400. The online
bookseller soared 46 points by the end of the day, closing at $289.
Blodget issued a report later stating his prediction was the target would
be reached in 12 months, not one day. Today's rise follows a 20 point
increase yesterday on reports that Amazon would be included in the Nasdaq
100 index. Blodget's report stated We continue to believe that Amazon.com
is in the early stages of building a global electronic-retailing franchise
that could generate $10 billion in revenue and earnings per share of $10
within five years.
So this turkey predicts that Amazon will ( or should ) go to $400. within the next 12 months based on the fact that they ....could generate $10 billion in revenue and earnings per share of $10 within five years. Let's see now. If I invest $400. this year I can reasonably expect to own a stock that will then have a PE of 40 sometime within the next 5 years. That alone sounds like a bargain to me! That is as long as everything goes along perfectly and the prediction of this Blodget fellow becomes 100% reality. Uh, well, ummm, Yeah! I think I did hear his name mentioned once or twice before somewhere. Mabel! Get off the phone, I've just got to phone my broker right away before that Amazonia company goes up another $20. today and I miss my chance!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:31
Cage Rattler (Air raid sirens in Bagdahd) ID#33184:


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:29
tolerant1 (The strikes against IRAQ are just the start...look for terrorist bombings or happenings ) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
that will be orchestrated by Clintler's private government...and look for them on US soil...if you feel this is an unjust statement I point to this absolutely ridiculous bombing of IRAQ and the unjustified reasoning behind it...The fact is Clintler bombed for PURELY political reasons... his dirtbag partner in this...Phony Tony Blair a gormless plonker and clearly one of the worst who ever held a seat of power in England...

Clintler is totally out of control…Cohen’s statement of putting his career on the line does not mean squat…this is the same dirtbag that has overseen the gutting of the US military worldwide… EnviroWhoreGore is nothing more than a wooden puppet and is meaningless…pull my string and hear me spout…Albright a waste of hairspray and Butler a delivery boy sent by a clerk…

America is in serious trouble here…believing the lies of a psychopath and supporting these unconscionable amoral and corrupt acts…

I can’t speak for other Americans but I can say this American wants to voice his repugnance for these people and the acts committed by them…



Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:15
Greenstone Gold (GOLD IS THEIR BUSINESS.......) ID#428218:

The CENTRAL BANK of all central banks - the Bank of International Settlements, the BIS.

GOLD is their core and only business.....

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/finart1.htm

I would further uggest that the FED is a local depository of the BIS.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:09
Gollum (@BillD ) ID#35571:
There is no such thing as a free market.

Short volume or long volume, all is volume. I can see how one might drive the price down through leasing and sales, but that would create volume in it's own right.

So how does the Fed create light volume?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:08
esotericist (Wag the Dog is a play within a play.) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've been doodling here....and I just don't buy what people think they mean by the Wag the Dog analysis. ( I chose my words with care there. )

It's too shallow, it's too convenient and far too simplistic. It must be an American product!

No, this isn't Bill's Show. Wag the Dog is an intellectual plant so to speak. The puppet-masters behind the scenes have written ( this time literally ) this believeable alternative script for all the intellectually lazy paid-by-the-column-inch copywriters and liberal-arts-degree-dropout pretty Talking Heads on TV to mouth. As if it was somehow novel, insightful or relevant. The movie was of course written by the dreamweavers of Hollywood who, ( they used to like to arrogantly believe ) , played such an important part in getting their man in the POTUS seat in the first place.

No, Clinton pulled the trigger last night because he had got to that page in his script and...it says here.....Despite what he must painfully know is the obvious connection with a rather average movie. Yes, Saddam is indeed being most accommodating in sticking so faithfully to his copy of the script and to the precise timing of this French Bedroom farce .....timing is everything after all. But Saddam is himself no free thinking rocket scientist and is happy to go with the flow. He's seen the movie of course.

No, this little bit of prestidigitation isn't actually being perpetrated by WJC. No, Bill and the media are both just reading their own scripts.

But the real play we're watching isn't actually called Wag the Dog, but rather called The Proctologists

But you're supposed to think you're watching Wag the Dog. That's the whole point.

In the dumbed-down reality that Americans like to think is an open-society, a most sophisticated game is being played out. Are these opening moves in a new scenario, or the end moves in the latest phase of play And what's is all got to do with the P.O.G. ?

If you had for generations had all the money, and were used to having your grubby little mits on many of the levers of power in the world's only remaining super-society, wouldn't you want to keep it that way in the face of changing demographics and the magical wealth creating stunts of the Silicon Valley generation ? To accomplish that little feat....

First find yourself a suitable candidate. One of the enemy. A charming telegenic sociopathic babyboomer. But a totally malleable candidate with no moral compass, a closet full of skeletons and a suitable power hungry minder of a wife to get him out of bed every morning ( Whichever bed that might have been !0. Enter Bill and Hillary. Just the ticket.

Now package him and sell him to J.Sixpack, his fat wife and their equally fat Nike wearing hat-on-backwards brats.... And apply the most sophisticated opinion forming tools at your disposal ( surely a waste on such gullible people ?! ) . Anyhow. Leave nothing to chance, because you'll be wanting the westcoast silicon valley liberal vote, and the people of colour and single-mothers-on-crack vote.

If you can't beat an inevitable swing to the left liberal democratic vote, buy their candidate and run him as your own.

Now, get a good team of opinion formers.... and hire your suits. Some sharp lawyers to run interference for him and his wife. He'll be needing them. Better still make sure your candidate and his personal minder are both trained lawyers. Streetwise, eloquent ones, at that. Finally hire the very best Hollywood talent to write his scripts.

Then, once in the White House, surround him with your old money team. To run the military-industrial branch of the business, to steer foreign policy, to hold the levers of the economy, and guard the piggybank. Bill Clinton did sell his soul. But who paid for it ?

The really amusing part ? The babyboomers believe this candidate is THEIR baby. And its their boom too. A low inflation, low unemployment nirvana that will last for a hundred years...But that 401K boom is paid for in paper. Not Gold. Oops ! ( Couldn't resist that one ! )

So as a whole demographic they'll be on the back foot when the skeletons come a tumbling out of the cupboard. Their addled pot-smoking judgement will be called into question. Their flowerpower draft dodging generation will all be to blame.

A real guilt trip to keep them out of the political picture for a while.

This is all starting to make sense. It's an East Coast old money vs. West Coast New Money thing. ( Has anybody here read Norman Mailer's Cannibals and Christians ?

In this calculus the Wag the Dog script is pitched at just about the right level of one-step removed derivative factual analysis. Just about subtle enough to make the talking heads believe they've stumbled onto something intelligent. ( For a change )

BUT THE GAME, BOYS AND GIRLS IS PLAYED SEVERAL MOVES AHEAD OF THAT.

If the East Coast old money team play their hand out right, they'll end up with all the gold.....and the gullible pot-smoking newboys will have all the paper.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:08
esotericist (Wag the Dog is a play within a play.) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've been doodling here....and I just don't buy what people think they mean by the Wag the Dog analysis. ( I chose my words with care there. )

It's too shallow, it's too convenient and far too simplistic. It must be an American product!

No, this isn't Bill's Show. Wag the Dog is an intellectual plant so to speak. The puppet-masters behind the scenes have written ( this time literally ) this believeable alternative script for all the intellectually lazy paid-by-the-column-inch copywriters and liberal-arts-degree-dropout pretty Talking Heads on TV to mouth. As if it was somehow novel, insightful or relevant. The movie was of course written by the dreamweavers of Hollywood who, ( they used to like to arrogantly believe ) , played such an important part in getting their man in the POTUS seat in the first place.

No, Clinton pulled the trigger last night because he had got to that page in his script and...it says here.....Despite what he must painfully know is the obvious connection with a rather average movie. Yes, Saddam is indeed being most accommodating in sticking so faithfully to his copy of the script and to the precise timing of this French Bedroom farce .....timing is everything after all. But Saddam is himself no free thinking rocket scientist and is happy to go with the flow. He's seen the movie of course.

No, this little bit of prestidigitation isn't actually being perpetrated by WJC. No, Bill and the media are both just reading their own scripts.

But the real play we're watching isn't actually called Wag the Dog, but rather called The Proctologists

But you're supposed to think you're watching Wag the Dog. That's the whole point.

In the dumbed-down reality that Americans like to think is an open-society, a most sophisticated game is being played out. Are these opening moves in a new scenario, or the end moves in the latest phase of play And what's is all got to do with the P.O.G. ?

If you had for generations had all the money, and were used to having your grubby little mits on many of the levers of power in the world's only remaining super-society, wouldn't you want to keep it that way in the face of changing demographics and the magical wealth creating stunts of the Silicon Valley generation ? To accomplish that little feat....

First find yourself a suitable candidate. One of the enemy. A charming telegenic sociopathic babyboomer. But a totally malleable candidate with no moral compass, a closet full of skeletons and a suitable power hungry minder of a wife to get him out of bed every morning ( Whichever bed that might have been !0. Enter Bill and Hillary. Just the ticket.

Now package him and sell him to J.Sixpack, his fat wife and their equally fat Nike wearing hat-on-backwards brats.... And apply the most sophisticated opinion forming tools at your disposal ( surely a waste on such gullible people ?! ) . Anyhow. Leave nothing to chance, because you'll be wanting the westcoast silicon valley liberal vote, and the people of colour and single-mothers-on-crack vote.

If you can't beat an inevitable swing to the left liberal democratic vote, buy their candidate and run him as your own.

Now, get a good team of opinion formers.... and hire your suits. Some sharp lawyers to run interference for him and his wife. He'll be needing them. Better still make sure your candidate and his personal minder are both trained lawyers. Streetwise, eloquent ones, at that. Finally hire the very best Hollywood talent to write his scripts.

Then, once in the White House, surround him with your old money team. To run the military-industrial branch of the business, to steer foreign policy, to hold the levers of the economy, and guard the piggybank. Bill Clinton did sell his soul. But who paid for it ?

The really amusing part ? The babyboomers believe this candidate is THEIR baby. And its their boom too. A low inflation, low unemployment nirvana that will last for a hundred years...But that 401K boom is paid for in paper. Not Gold. Oops ! ( Couldn't resist that one ! )

So as a whole demographic they'll be on the back foot when the skeletons come a tumbling out of the cupboard. Their addled pot-smoking judgement will be called into question. Their flowerpower draft dodging generation will all be to blame.

A real guilt trip to keep them out of the political picture for a while.

This is all starting to make sense. It's an East Coast old money vs. West Coast New Money thing. ( Has anybody here read Norman Mailer's Cannibals and Christians ?

In this calculus the Wag the Dog script is pitched at just about the right level of one-step removed derivative factual analysis. Just about subtle enough to make the talking heads believe they've stumbled onto something intelligent. ( For a change )

BUT THE GAME, BOYS AND GIRLS IS PLAYED SEVERAL MOVES AHEAD OF THAT.

If the East Coast old money team play their hand out right, they'll end up with all the gold.....and the gullible pot-smoking newboys will have all the paper.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 09:03
esotericist (Wag the Dog is a play within a play.) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've been doodling here....and I just don't buy what people think they mean by the Wag the Dog analysis. ( I chose my words with care there. )

It's too shallow, it's too convenient and far too simplistic. It must be an American product!

No, this isn't Bill's Show. Wag the Dog is an intellectual plant so to speak. The puppet-masters behind the scenes have written ( this time literally ) this believeable alternative script for all the intellectually lazy paid-by-the-column-inch copywriters and liberal-arts-degree-dropout pretty Talking Heads on TV to mouth. As if it was somehow novel, insightful or relevant. The movie was of course written by the dreamweavers of Hollywood who, ( they used to like to arrogantly believe ) , played such an important part in getting their man in the POTUS seat in the first place.

No, Clinton pulled the trigger last night because he had got to that page in his script and...it says here.....Despite what he must painfully know is the obvious connection with a rather average movie. Yes, Saddam is indeed being most accommodating in sticking so faithfully to his copy of the script and to the precise timing of this French Bedroom farce .....timing is everything after all. But Saddam is himself no free thinking rocket scientist and is happy to go with the flow. He's seen the movie of course.

No, this little bit of prestidigitation isn't actually being perpetrated by WJC. No, Bill and the media are both just reading their own scripts.

But the real play we're watching isn't actually called Wag the Dog, but rather called The Proctologists

But you're supposed to think you're watching Wag the Dog. That's the whole point.

In the dumbed-down reality that Americans like to think is an open-society, a most sophisticated game is being played out. Are these opening moves in a new scenario, or the end moves in the latest phase of play And what's is all got to do with the P.O.G. ?

If you had for generations had all the money, and were used to having your grubby little mits on many of the levers of power in the world's only remaining super-society, wouldn't you want to keep it that way in the face of changing demographics and the magical wealth creating stunts of the Silicon Valley generation ? To accomplish that little feat....

First find yourself a suitable candidate. One of the enemy. A charming telegenic sociopathic babyboomer. But a totally malleable candidate with no moral compass, a closet full of skeletons and a suitable power hungry minder of a wife to get him out of bed every morning ( Whichever bed that might have been !0. Enter Bill and Hillary. Just the ticket.

Now package him and sell him to J.Sixpack, his fat wife and their equally fat Nike wearing hat-on-backwards brats.... And apply the most sophisticated opinion forming tools at your disposal ( surely a waste on such gullible people ?! ) . Anyhow. Leave nothing to chance, because you'll be wanting the westcoast silicon valley liberal vote, and the people of colour and single-mothers-on-crack vote.

If you can't beat an inevitable swing to the left liberal democratic vote, buy their candidate and run him as your own.

Now, get a good team of opinion formers.... and hire your suits. Some sharp lawyers to run interference for him and his wife. He'll be needing them. Better still make sure your candidate and his personal minder are both trained lawyers. Streetwise, eloquent ones, at that. Finally hire the very best Hollywood talent to write his scripts.

Then, once in the White House, surround him with your old money team. To run the military-industrial branch of the business, to steer foreign policy, to hold the levers of the economy, and guard the piggybank. Bill Clinton did sell his soul. But who paid for it ?

The really amusing part ? The babyboomers believe this candidate is THEIR baby. And its their boom too. A low inflation, low unemployment nirvana that will last for a hundred years...But that 401K boom is paid for in paper. Not Gold. Oops ! ( Couldn't resist that one ! )

So as a whole demographic they'll be on the back foot when the skeletons come a tumbling out of the cupboard. Their addled pot-smoking judgement will be called into question. Their flowerpower draft dodging generation will all be to blame.

A real guilt trip to keep them out of the political picture for a while.

This is all starting to make sense. It's an East Coast old money vs. West Coast New Money thing. ( Has anybody here read Norman Mailer's Cannibals and Christians ?

In this calculus the Wag the Dog script is pitched at just about the right level of one-step removed derivative factual analysis. Just about subtle enough to make the talking heads believe they've stumbled onto something intelligent. ( For a change )

BUT THE GAME, BOYS AND GIRLS IS PLAYED SEVERAL MOVES AHEAD OF THAT.

If the East Coast old money team play their hand out right, they'll end up with all the gold.....and the gullible pot-smoking newboys will have all the paper.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:59
Greenstone Gold (Rhody.................) ID#428218:
Copyright © 1998 Greenstone Gold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

You have a point in outlining leasing as a form of manipulation. However, the derivatives fiasco using gold as a form of energy to stoke the financial systems fire has now gone on for at least two years, and within the last year the Asian Crisis ( I love that term, it is sooooo distant from where the real problems actually lie - the US$ and the US National Debt- accumulating at a mere US$ 450 million per day.

We have known for a year that gold was a source of finance for the derivatives trading, and we have further known that since the LTCM fiasco that gold leasing was at the core, if not epicentre, of the financial derivative system.

Derivatives are out of control, hence gold leasing is out of control. ALL stops will be pulled out to perpetuate the derivative scenario ( including the possible Swiss gold sales of 1500 tonnes ) , else it the system will fall over. Is this an attempt to plug a hole in the bucket, dear Rhody, dear Rhody ?

It will get to the stage that ONLY GOLD will be in a position to save the financial system, derivatives and hedge funds will be sacrificial goats, and at some point gold will revalue the system in the long term. In the short term, alot of pain.

Remember, the Chinese have been mining gold since some 400 years BC, and they currently produce 3 million ounces per annum. I hate to think what their unofficial gold reserves actually are ?!

We must remember the gold is somewhere between 8000 and 14000 tonnes short, and it is owed to various groups. It has to be paid at some point, who and when is the issue.

Little old gold....it's a bit like Little Red Riding Hood, everyone trying to root her, BUT at the end of the day Prince Charming has his way !!!!!!

As I said nearly a year ago, Clinton would not have a problem if he did not have a PROBLEM.........the Tax man always collects, or should I say the BIS always collects, only GOLD.

I would suggest that GOLD lease rates are a means to and end. The question is - who is pulling the strings ?!

http://www.golden-eagle.com/research/redbaronndx.html
( take out the en from golden

GOLD is a cartel, beyond the Markets !!!!!!
Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:59
Greenstone Gold (Rhody.................) ID#428218:
Copyright © 1998 Greenstone Gold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

You have a point in outlining leasing as a form of manipulation. However, the derivatives fiasco using gold as a form of energy to stoke the financial systems fire has now gone on for at least two years, and within the last year the Asian Crisis ( I love that term, it is sooooo distant from where the real problems actually lie - the US$ and the US National Debt- accumulating at a mere US$ 450 million per day.

We have known for a year that gold was a source of finance for the derivatives trading, and we have further known that since the LTCM fiasco that gold leasing was at the core, if not epicentre, of the financial derivative system.

Derivatives are out of control, hence gold leasing is out of control. ALL stops will be pulled out to perpetuate the derivative scenario ( including the possible Swiss gold sales of 1500 tonnes ) , else it the system will fall over. Is this an attempt to plug a hole in the bucket, dear Rhody, dear Rhody ?

It will get to the stage that ONLY GOLD will be in a position to save the financial system, derivatives and hedge funds will be sacrificial goats, and at some point gold will revalue the system in the long term. In the short term, alot of pain.

Remember, the Cinese have been mining gold since some 400 years BC, and they currently produce 3 million ounces per annum. I hate to think what their unofficial gold reserves actually are ?!

We must remember the gold is somewhere between 8000 and 14000 tonnes short, and it is owed to various groups. It has to be paid at some point, who and when is the issue.

Little old gold....it's a bit like Little Red Riding Hood, everyone trying to root her, BUT at the end of the day Prince Charming has his way !!!!!!

As I said nearly a year ago, Clinton would not have a problem if he did not have a PROBLEM.........the Tax man always collects, or should I say the BIS always collects, only GOLD.

I would suggest that GOLD lease rates are a means to and end. The question is - who is pulling the strings ?!

http://www.golden-eagle.com/research/redbaronndx.html
( take out the en from golden

GOLD is a cartel, beyond the Markets !!!!!!
Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:54
BillD (@Gollum...light volume) ID#258427:
Good question...best time to strike is on light volume..right...and keep the long volume low by discouragement and indicating resolve to keep the price down in any event ... by sales, leasing, jawboning, spin and striking while you are asleep...Do you believe that the gold and silver market is a free market...and the present prices reflect un-manipulated ( by gov't ) market action? Really?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:42
Gollum (@BillD) ID#35571:
How does the Fed create such light volume?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:41
Silverbaron (Order of Battle) ID#288466:
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/iraq_order.gif

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:36
Gollum (And that goal is?) ID#35571:
07:33 UK DEFENSE SECRETARY SAYS WILL BE NO LET UP ON IRAQ UNTIL GOAL ACHIEVED.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:25
Aldebaran (rhody, checking things) ID#256365:
I have a sick feeling that you could be right, and that my argument is an old one that has already been proven wrong.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:24
BillD (As much as I would like to believe) ID#258427:
that the spike down in gold last night was just shrewed traders ... but with oil up...Iraq...dollar down ...just have to conclude that manipulation by the USFed is behind the control over gold ( and silver ) .in order to keep a lid on the bond prices as the only safe-haven. Sorry, but just cannot buy market action ... gotta be a conspiracy...righto?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:21
Aldebaran (rhody, CB Physical sales) ID#256365:
Copyright © 1998 Aldebaran/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If the CB's actually do dump thier gold then that is the end of their dominance. That gold is their wealth, their power. In the whole world perhaps only they and the goldbugs know it, but it is true. LET THEM SELL GOLD!

These central banks cooperate extensivly, but under the circumstances you are describing, I think they would break ranks. Several nations central banks would soak up the gold as fast as the others could sell it. OPEC for instance absolutly needs to cut production, yet they can't because the situation is so bad that they all have to cheat or else their countries fall into rioting ruin.






Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:18
SDRer () ID#290172:
Latest London Bullion Fixings

Gold AM Fixing ( 17 Dec 1998 ) : 174.976 Pounds Sterling
Gold AM Fixing ( 17 Dec 1998 ) : 293.750 US Dollars

Gold PM Fixing ( 16 Dec 1998 ) : 175.519 Pounds Sterling
Gold PM Fixing ( 16 Dec 1998 ) : 294.100 US Dollars

Silver Fixing ( 16 Dec 1998 ) : 2.9393 Pounds Sterling
Silver Fixing ( 16 Dec 1998 ) : 4.9425 US Dollars

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:15
Gollum (For Sheller) ID#35571:
We peer dimly at charts wishing the future to see.
Numbers laid down in the past, perhaps show reason.

And so we hope to find some kind of cyclicality.
But with the passions of men of love and greed and treason,

there is a higher fabric, not of numbers, but rather destiny.
Passions not charted but loomed in the weave of season.

We make much ado about nothing, and none for finality,
hampered as we are by our mind's prison.

Perhaps we would better turn to astrology
as the art and science of decision.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 08:01
Aldebaran (BillD gold spike down, then up) ID#256365:
There was very little volume. We won't know till NY opens.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:45
Donald (Bank lobby does not want CFTC to regulate derivatives) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981216/bh4.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:43
Freasyberry (If we bomb for four days - buys BJ till Christmas - Demo's ask) ID#338418:
why the rush to vote impeachment after Christmas. Let the NEXT house take the vote. Billy likes his odds better there. This guy scares me with what he will do to stay in power.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:40
Cage Rattler (@BillD) ID#33184:
Everything spiked last night, dollar, etc. One of my posts earlier today made reference to positions being set up in the forex markets before this event in order to take advantage of it.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:34
BillD (Man-O-Man...the negative SPIN on Gold) ID#258427:
is really running wild ...didja see the big spike down last night.. and then the big spike back up....wonder who would want to spike gold down like that Yeah...gotta keep those bondos as the only safe-haven...

whatta bunch of crap...

bd

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:32
Donald (Sharpest fall in British manufacturers' prices in at least 40 years) ID#26793:
http://www.irish-times.com:80/irish-times/paper/1998/1215/fin12.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:28
Gollum (@Goldbug23) ID#35571:
Namaste - derived from the Sanskrit word, Namaskaar, meaning 'I honor the divine in you'.

I honor the place in you
in which the entire universe dwells.
I honor the place in you
which is of love, of truth,
of light, and of peace.
When you are in
that place in you,
and I am in
that place in me,
We are One.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:12
Carl (@Bufford, Lower Swiss house votes to sever franc from gold) ID#341189:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981217/hb.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:11
Monkee Person (America is adrift, has lost steerage way.) ID#350219:
Copyright © 1998 Monkee Person/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

When opportunities abound for grasping this period in world history, the United States hasn't a grip. It's leadership employs a carrot tied to a stick. The minions yip and yap after it. Their trainer is entertained.

What a shallow lot my countrymen are.

Children of the 60's, the anti-establishment American subculture, opposed to sacrifice and commitment in most any form, forever creating their convenient controversies, opposing all things dutiful, will never-the-less hurry to don the mask of duty. Plastic personas -- much as the ones in the mindless loathing of their youth -- always willing to feed at the expense others, they do so now from both sides of the political aisle. Their children, well-schooled in the same techniques, now fake their way down the path of their parentage, hoping to employ the same or similar ruse -- the one or ones that assault and destroy genuine substance of character. Blending capitalist and communist, socialists and plutocrats, all together, they practice whatever better benefits their hedonist appetites.

America, imperiled and adrift, yipping and yapping all the way down.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:07
RETIRED SOLDIER (Nick) ID#399147:
As we say in the Signal Corps, Kilo, Mike Alpha & Foxtrot Oscar Alpha Delta. Any GI can tell you what they mean.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:03
Gaston2 (gold bars Christmans gifts at UBS) ID#430236:

THURSDAY DECEMBER 17 1998 ( FINANCIAL TIMES )
Europe

UBS: Golden bonus for Swiss staff
By William Hall in Zurich

UBS, Europe's biggest bank, is giving to give each of its 30,000 domestic staff three gold bars for Christmas, proving that the gnomes of Zurich still love that which glitters, despite government plans to sever the Swiss Franc's link to gold......
Each will receive 30 gm of gold ( a bar or 20gm and 2 of 5 gm ) ....


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 07:03
BUFFORD (@anyone Swis Parliment vote on gold referendem) ID#263226:
Did anyone year results of vote in Swis Parliment vote thurs dec

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:51
rhody (@ John Disney: I believe that the lease rates (those are) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
the day to day fluctuations of the gold manipulation ) are market
driven right up to the time when the forward rates become
unprofitable for the gold carry. When forward rates drop to
2.25%, then the gold carry appears to be uneconomic for the
funds. At this point, it will be interesting to see if the
Fed will begin to manipulate the lease rate itself ( downwards )
to reestablish the profit margin on the gold carry. Since the
CBs do the leasing, why wouldn't they set the lease rates?

I think that while the POG is under control by leasing, the
CBs maintain the illusion that the lease rates are market driven.
When this no longer works, they will manipulate the lease rates
as well. When lease rates are dropped to zero, I think we will
see actual CB dumping of physical gold on the spot market.
( I don't think the CBs will lease gold at negative lease rates )
Remember that 4000 ton gold short overhang? If POG rises, then
the funds are forced to cover, and they can't. That means the
CBs must admit that they gave away gold to speculators who
couldn't cover. If the funds default, the derivative mess
unwinds, and that would collapse world stock markets, and
precipitate a world financial crisis. What a mess!!!! IMHO

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:50
General (Given yesterday's performance of WAG THE DOG II,. . .) ID#365216:
Can anyone now seriously doubt that WJC would not in an instant declare
martial law for any number of seen and unforeseen emergencies
( terrorism, Y2K, weather, drug wars, you name it ) if it meant he could
stay in power for a while longer?

Truth is stranger and weirder with Clintler, no doubt.

That is all.

Your General

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:48
esotericist (Nick@C - Nah - just kidding around) ID#224230:
I'm more of a rugby fan actually, Mr. Southern Hemisphere.... ! : )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:43
Goldbug23 (CPO@AU) ID#432148:
Thanks for the info on nastrova. I do believe Namaste means same thing. Cheers ;- )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:39
Nick@C (esotorycist) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Oooh, touched a raw nerve!! You will be pleased to know that they beat the PM's 11 today. Now Alf Garnett...er...eso...back to your research.
.....................

RLM--Rupert Murdoch owns anything that makes money. That includes trashy newspapers. This article, however, has the ring of truth to it. The attack on Iraq was orchestrated from the start. I know the US was rather disappointed when Kofi Anan stepped in and ruined their 'tour-de-force' a few weeks ago. Damned inconvenient of him to persuade Saddam to let the inspectors back in. I actually agree with pulverizing the bloody tyrant. Too bad Iraqi citizens have to suffer though. They are getting it from both ends. And we think that WE have got it tough with the POG stuck in molasses!!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:31
rhody (@ Aldebaran: I think we are all missing the point here.) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Leasing IS the manipulation, The lease
rate can be market driven on a day to day basis, but look at
the rates: 1.5%, and it has been a low as 0.36%! Borrowing
gold ( real money ) at 3% under other lending rates is the
manipulation. The Fed is saying I will lend this stuff called
gold at only 1.5% and is thus telling the world, that it is really not
worth very much; telling the world to borrow it dirt cheap,
sell it, and make a profit on the difference between normal
borrowing rates and the lease rate. By leasing gold at 1% or
so, they dump borrowed gold on a market which would normally
be in deficit supply by 500 tonnes per year. THAT is the
manipulation, not the day to day lease rate. People continue to
look at a tree, and it is blocking their view of the forest!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:27
esotericist (Nick@C- Sorry, I forgot to add this...) ID#224230:
; )

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:24
RLM (Nick@C) ID#409349:
Don't know for sure who owns it ( Ruppert Murdoch? -spelling- ) , but it's not afraid to speak out even if it expresses an opinion that no other establishment paper has published. It's a refreshing paper, and one of the few publications I bother to read anymore!


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:24
esotericist (Nick@C) ID#224230:
Bugger Off

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:23
esotericist (Yup, The BBC is commenting now. Duma Considering lifting sanctions) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The analysis is that whilst the DUMA might pass some toughly worded resolutions, the Krelin would probably ignore it....

Hold on a second, isn't The Kremlin a irrelevant drunken joke these days....wasn't yesterday's analysis that to all intents and purposes Primakov was in charge. What has the Kremlin go to do with it ?

Lebed's making political statements about how this matter will be a millstone around the USA's neck etc. This IS JUST THE TICKET to help Russian move to the next episode in their own political evolutionary debate. And it doesn't bode well. Unless of course you've already loaded up with shiny stuff : )

Hard to say what the Russians will do.....
Hard to say what will happen come Y2K actually
hard to say what will happen if the impeachment thang goes ahead
Hard to say what will happen in Brazil tonight
Hard to say what effect the Euro will have
etc.

To plagiarise poorly if I may...

Never ...in the field of financial conflict... has it been So Hard to say So Much about So Many Things.

A puff here if I may, a namaste and a gulp, too !

But the CNBC lassies still manage to drivel on anyhow.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:17
Nick@C (esotericist) ID#386245:
I am enjoying your posts. It is nice to meet a Pom sans plum in mouth. And no, I won't mention the cricket. Har, har ( oops ) .

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:15
John Disney (YES) ID#24135:
for aldebaron ..
Your comment on lease rates .. I
agree completely .. either the rates
are market driven OR central bank
driven .. cant have it both ways ..

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:12
Aldebaran (rhody the charts say you were right) ID#240155:
and I was wrong. I'll figure it out someday.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:11
jims (Soth African golds holding 2.5% gain) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^JGAI&d=5d

The South African golds playing catch up to their American counterparts due to no trading yesterday, if I'm not mistaken. ADRs were up 2-4% yesterday with Harmony the leader in NY.

PD fans take heart - PD up $5, clearing $320. Stillwater ( SWC ) was rather a poor performer yesterday, unable to overcome gap resistance at the 37 1/4 level. Volumn was three times average and there was very little movement suggesting to me that distribution is taking place. Technicals look to be pointing toward failure here and a retest of the 35-36 area. SWC has a tendancy to perform more like a high tech NASDAQ momentum stock than a precious miner. 72% of shares are held by institutions and mutual funds. Seems they were not overly aggressive in their purchases yesterday. STock currently trades at a 100PE based on trailing earnings. Expect earnings of $2+ in '99 based on $280 PD and $350 PT. First spike up in earnings to reflect marketing of PD at world prices to be evident in APril's earnings report.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:10
Nick@C (RLM and anyone else) ID#386245:
Does anyone know who controls The New York Post This is extremely interesting, but I would like to know the bias of the source.

http://nypostonline.com/news/8539.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:06
Aldebaran (rhody lease rates of gold) ID#240155:
But if the lease rates reflect market demand for gold to sell, then they are not a means of control over the price of gold. They would only be a means of control if they move independently of demand. If central banks are leasing gold to create revenue, then the rates are being determined by the market and all this is is a little tunnel that increases the supply of paper gold. If they are attempting to control the price of gold, then they would set the rates to encourage or discourage the flow thru that tunnel.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 06:03
esotericist (Those Russians) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Now who better to capitalise on Clinton's domestic political woes than the Russians. Primalov is a fluent Arab speaker, old chum of Saddam as we all know.

Anyhow, the story that stopped me in my tracks...Apparently the Russians are considerring...wait for it...to break the sanctions on Iraq unilaterally. Doesn't take too much imagination to see the consequences - both direct and indirect of this one. Primakov gets to be de facto President the Russians get to throw their weight around by proxy and all hell breaks lose. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the Russians have lots of hellacious weapons to sell. Including the mushroom cloud generator weapon.

Now things are really warming up - perhaps sufficiently to make those little girls on CNBC rue the day they did a little KILL GOLD piece.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:55
esotericist (First hit on gold...CNBC - who pays these people (DOW JONES NEWSWIRES)) ID#224230:
Copyright © 1998 esotericist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As a segue to the little gold price blip and subsequent hammering down, these brainswashed little know-nothing talking head girls have just done a little piece...on gold. Wheeling out some obscure banker who confidently linked POG increases to political fears and then cleverly went on to say that despite the Iraq spat, people the world over were generally not in any political fear. thus gold wouldn't go up. The girl then went on to confidently conclude that gold was therefore just a commodity whose price was ONLY AFFECTED by supply and demand factors such as jewellery buying by the likes of normal people like you and me - At which point they cut to some pathetic library footage of a jewellery shop and showed a few little shiny trinkets to reinforce their point.

NOTHING about the fact that people WILL MOST probably flee to the known value of gold as an alternative to the ilusion of wealth pirnted on pieces of paper that represent somebody's debt.

Now at this point I was so angry I got up to go have a puke.... Only to be stopped in my tracks by the next breaking story.....hold a second for this little beauty as out antipodean friends like to say...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:53
Gollum (I thought I heard a noise, but I guess it was nothing...) ID#43349:
http://www.marketwatch.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CnNIp0b8Ztde3mtiXmZKY&FQ=v%25reuter&Title=Headlines%20for%3A%20v%25reuter%0A

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:52
Gollum (daces? Should be faces.) ID#43349:

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:45
Gollum (ML daces the Year of Darkness) ID#43349:
Chief Economist Bruce Steinberg, asked about the greatest areas of uncertainty for the United States in the year ahead, said the stock market posed the largest threat.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981215/st.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:43
RLM (Former Weapons Inspector on Bombing) ID#409349:
Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter says U.S. officials prodded inspection teams to return to Iraq last month to provoke a crisis to justify bombing.

http://nypostonline.com/news/8539.htm


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:37
Gollum (Clickity clack, where's Iraq?) ID#43349:
The great legend has nothing to say about the conflict with Iraq. Presumeably this means it has little impact on the great scheme of things.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:36
PCM (Nick: Asia maybe..) ID#169332:
I ‘ll have to chew on that, as I go out to work now. The Middle East is still the first crisis point? I can see us ( the U S ) retreating to isolationism, to sort things out at home, especially if we get drawn into two wars ( Korea [?] and Middle East [?] ) . We would probably work better as separate regions, as it is - forget Washington.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:30
Donald (Dollars still fleeing from Brazil) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981216/35.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:19
Donald (London morning currency news) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981217/fl.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:18
rhody (@ Aldebaran: If one month lease rates rise, it means) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
demand for short-term borrowing of gold has risen. This only
happens if it is intended to be sold short. So gold goes down
today. It seems the powers that be will not tolerate gold
at even the 293 level. The gold carry is still profitable at
lease rates of 1.5% and interest rates at 4.5% as the forward
rate is still 3%. When the forward rate drops to 2.5% ( by an
increase in interest rates or an increase of lease rates or a
combination of both, then the gold carry ( shorting ) ceases.
Then the question will be, will the funds continue to operate
the gold carry at a loss or will the CBs arbitrarily drop
lease rates to zero to keep the gold carry alive. I suspect that
the Fed may be willing to lease at zero ( although it remains to
be seen if the ECB will after Jan. 1 ) and some funds may be
willing to conduct the gold carry for a short period at a loss
if they are holding a big short position in gold. We saw this
briefly back when gold touched $314 in the spring.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:17
CPO@AU (aurator(meanwhile down on the farm)ID#257148) ID#329186:
Boy its good to laugh ,we shall need lots of these next year, I laughed so much i nearly ....

I sincerely hope that the european brussels bunch don't get hold of this , translation & circulation costs ( another forrest )
go gold

cpo


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:16
Nick@C (NOW WHAT IS HAPPENING) ID#386245:
to the POFG

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:14
ravenfire (amazing.com tulipomania) ID#365190:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1060123002394000&sort=postdate

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:10
jims (Gold already hit for $2.00 loss) ID#252391:
Rhody seems to have it read correctly. Bullish signs for gold are so fleeting. Oil must be getting hit too. Good-by CRB

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:08
aurator (I don't like cricket; I love it;;;;;;;;) ID#255284:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fred
Dig a hole in the ice over the Danube. Is the fish still swimming?


When you say pass the dutchie I know there is a story. In my Antipoean Ingrish, a dutchie could almost mean A Dutch Widow or a 'pillow' to sleep with, that is placed between the thighs. {Without looking at my sources}

I think, though, that when you say~~~Pass the Dutchie~~~ you may mean something else.

You can contact Nick@C or I, via the Fin who shares magnificently....he is part kiwi and part aussie....{though I am sure sharefin is appalled at the Corruption and game fixing of the Australian Cricket Board{

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:05
Nick@C (PCM) ID#386245:
Perhaps you remember the mantra of the 40's and 50's. Whomever controls 'The Heartland' ( central Europe ) controls the world. The Heartland is shifting south. I shall restate: Whomever controls southwest Asia controls the world. It is a new pair of dimes. Geopolitical reality rules political behaviour.

The Romans never saw the grim reaper coming. Just as in Rome, the political and moral rot has truly set in in the US. The big guy with the sickle hovers overhead and can't be seen by your citizens ( assuming you are a Merkin ) .

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:04
jims (AURATOR (WOMB)) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The comparison between America's enforcement of a disamarment of IRAQ originally called for by the majority of the members of the United Nations and Sadam's construction of weapons to be unleashed when ready against civilians is quite a contrast. In my opinion America was too restrained in Desert Storm and has been too restrained since. Many people will eventually perish as a result.

Yes, destroy those weapons of others before they are turned on you. If it wasn't for America's weapons of mass destruction the history of Europe would be spelled with Nazi and you all down under would be serving the Emperor of Japan. If Sadam is allowed his way many of us will be dead before our time from chemical weapons unleashed for his selfish purposes.

I have greater confidence in AMerica's than Iraq's view of a better world order. Admittedly I have a vested interest.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 05:03
Aldebaran (rhody you say gold will be hit that mean the price will ) ID#240155:
go up or go down? My understanding may be faulty...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:59
aurator (w.p.m.) ID#255284:
mo, crabby
So... tell us of your travails....compadre.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:52
Aldebaran (the numbers that Dabchick posts) ID#240155:
These are more important to gold than anything else at the moment arn't they. They have been going up each day for several days, and each day I see gold open, gap up a dollar or so then hold steady at the new price for the remainder of the day. There is very close correlation between the rates Dabchick is posting and the price of gold right? Dabchick and SDRer nominated for most value/bandwidth award! I like the rest of you to, but these two never post unless it's to tell us REAL hard data.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:51
rhody (LEASE RATES: one month lease rates on gold jumped .14%) ID#411440:
today, indicating that the funds are loading up on shorting
ammunition. Gold is going to be hit today. Note that the
increase was significant only in the one month leases. This
always indicates that gold is about to be hit. We shall see.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:49
Fred(@Vienna) () ID#185448:
I had this feeling of speaking bullsh** when I pressed the submit-button. mail me at:
fred_vienna ( at ) yahoo.com

Replace the ( at ) with the @

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:45
Nick@C (Fred) ID#386245:
You misunderstand. I wish to speak to you. Is there someone I can pass a message through

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:43
PCM (Nick: Caspian oil) ID#169332:
Right on. The Caspian oil. Possibly more oil than the Gulf. Kissinger and Baker, former Secretaries of State are personally active there for private interests. Iran's new international trade center to the east of Caspian will be bigger than Amazon.com, is forecasted to be. Resources ( as lack of water in many Arab countries and Israel ) are important. So is foreign policy. Short term deals rarely work, without a thoughtful policy to support them.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:40
Fred(@Vienna) () ID#185448:
Only one who reads my emails is me and maybe the FBI.
Pass the dutchie, mate!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:31
Nick@C (G'day Fred) ID#386245:
Investigation now under way. If I find anything, is there a 3rd party with your email so I may pass it on Good onyer, mate and thanks.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:22
mozel (News of De Jure Government) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From: Governor E. W. Madsen trustee@teamlaw.org

There is hope my friends. I appreciate your sentiments. I also have
questioned the path we are on. When there seems to be no court that will
hear the truth and act with justice and due process of law, we must ask
ourselves what we can do. The solution was revealed to me after sitting in solitary confinement for 3 days without food or water. Considering that they were not going to feed me anyway, I decided to fast and pray. I asked our God what I should do to solve the problem we were facing. A hearing was held and the judge ordered that I be released. The overseers said, regardless of the court's orders I would rot in their cells in administrative seclusion, they would not let me go until I cooperated with them ( I could not ) . The answers to my prayers came 5 hours later. The King of Kings inspired me with the solution in a three part revelation, which follows:

First, I was filled with the light of understanding. Words were placed in my mind and heart, Start Team Law. The light filled me with the
understanding of what Team Law would be and how it would be organized. That organization was designed such that it could unite all of our efforts to win our nation back. It was designed to be perpetual. It was designed such that the people, even those without funds could, receive competent legal help and understanding of how to win our nation back and how to protect our stewardships from the system in power. The financial plan behind the Team was exquisite and perpetual. Once people became beneficiaries of the team they never had to spend cent for any of the information or assistance that would follow, according to their needs. Some of what Team Law does can be found described at www.teamlaw.org.


Second, I was comforted with a voice spoken to my soul, it said, It is OK for you to leave now. I had no idea of how that would happen, but moments later it became clear as a jailer released me without compromising my position. I did not have to cooperate with them, they instead cooperated with me.

Finally, just before the jailer released me, words were spoken out loud to me ( I heard the words out loud, I have no idea whether anyone else could have heard them or not ) The words were, You won't run for President so run for governor. The words were spoken as if one friend had said it to another. Then there was silence until the jailer opened the door and led me out of the prison.

I am a visionary man. All of what I experienced I understood, however, the third part of the revelation, I could not accept as revelation. I thought back to the sixth grade when our teacher said, look around the room anyone of you could someday become the President. It was impossible not to reflect on the possibility and then immediately to... NOT me! I had always loathed politics. Yet, there were the words I heard in the prison cell. I determined that that was somehow just my imagination triggered by the impossibility of the situation I was in. After all it seemed as you said, that there was NO lawful courts and therefore... there can be NO lawful remedies Except perhaps executive intervention. Logically in my hungered state I could imagine a solution however impossible of being governor and turning the situation around. Again, NOT.

I knew the rest of what I received was revelation, so I went about setting up Team Law. I've had such revelations of pure light and understanding before. When I implemented those revelations everything went together perfectly. However, when I set up Team Law according to the revelation, nothing worked. Nobody responded. After two weeks of failure I prayed again and asked God why it was not working. The answer was immediate words spoken to my soul, You said you would go where I want you to go and do what I want you to do. My heart was impressed with the words suggested to me in the cell, You won't run for President so run for governor. I fell down repentant and cried. I began studying what being a governor would be. I started with Colorado's Constitution. I immediately discovered that the body in power was not the government as set up in Colorado's Constitution. I discovered that it was a private corporation formed under another private corporation known as THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ( Corp. U.S. ) . I discovered that corp. was formed by the original jurisdiction national congress under The District of Columbia Organic Act ( s ) of 1871, 1874 & 1878. I discovered that Corp. U.S. was deeded to the IMF within the Bretton
Woods Agreement in July of 1944 ( codified at USC Title 22 § 286 ) . I
discovered that Governors could only be elected by Electors ( Land owners ) . I discovered that Land in this nation can only be owned by Land Patent.

As soon as I began studying what it took to be a governor, everything I had done to set up Team Law began working perfectly - Team Law worked perfectly.

I secured my own Land by Land Patent and began teaching people how to do the same. I also taught them about the true nature of sovereignty and how to re-seat the Governor in our state. One day, having just presented these things to a group of the American Agricultural Society, in Campo, Colorado, Daryl Schroder asked me ( in front of the group ) if I would run for governor if he nominated me. I said, Yes. HE nominated me and Gladys, his wife, seconded the nomination. The rest is history. I was unanimously elected, by Colorado's electors as the Governor of Colorado. I have testified many times in court under subpoena as Governor of Colorado. I have refused their subpoenas on the grounds that I am the governor of the state and not subject to subpoena power except under the condition that the cause of the action is directly related to my own actions. I called The State of Colorado's ( corp. CO. ) Senate to meet with them and they responded and heard me-they also invited me to speak on several occasions. With all of this, I have served as Governor, without contest, for these past 4 years. I have
also been recognized as the Governor of Colorado by the Corp. U.S. federal courts, Corp. U.S's Congress, and by the United States Security Council, when the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Military of The United States of America said, what Governor Madsen is doing in Colorado is legal, lawful and correct, and if they accomplish what they have set out to do we will recognize that President of The United States of America as the President of The United States of America and Commander in Chief of the Military and give him full military support.

What have we set out to do? We have set out to restore our nation in accord to the laws of our Land. Those laws show that the President is seated by the national Senate, which has not been seated since shortly after Corp. U.S. passed its 17th amendment. We have to re-seat the Senate.

How is that done? We have to re-seat the State Governors. The Constitution of The United States of America states that if a Senate seat becomes vacant in term, the Governor of the State of that Senator seats the Senator until that State Legislature reconvenes and appoints a new U. S. Senator.

Each of the States holds their own elections for Governors at a date and
time set certain in the State's Constitution. Since at least 1968, none of the individual States have held elections by the Electors for Governors. There is nothing that can compel an Elector to take part other than the Elector's own sovereign will to so elect. If the people do not elect a Governor the seat stands vacant. Last November, we caused 27 Governors to be elected in 27 States.

There are 21 more States that do not have governors elected to take office on January 12th, 1999. We need your help to get the people of those States notified that there will be a special election for Governor held in their State on January 5th, 1999. We will help them secure their Land Patents. We will help them in any way we can to secure the election of their State's Governor.

I have now been appointed as the First national Senator to be seated in the Senate of The United States of America since 1913. According to the
national Constitution that makes me the President of the Senate pro tempore. My authority to perform these acts has been well confirmed.

When the Governors of the individual original jurisdiction ( OJ ) States are seated on January 12th 1999, they will all appoint national Senators. I will give them one week to do so, then I will call the Senate into Special Session to appoint and seat a President of The United States of America. I will most likely be elected into that position at that time. I already have 54 Senatorial votes promised.

Once the President is seated, if I am him, I will seat 3 Supreme Court
Judges ( The Governors have been admonished to do the same for each of their OJ State Supreme Courts ) . Next I will call for the payment in full of all of the money owed to The United States of America by Corp. U.S. and the Federal Reserve, that debt cannot be paid ( it is larger than all of the money in the world ) . When that debt is not timely paid all of their assets and all of the assets of their owners will be seized. At that same time we will be announcing to the nation that we are going back onto the national monetary system of gold and silver coin. We will be backing the Federal Reserve Note system on a one for one basis, and we will be removing all federal personal and corporate income taxes. We have measures in place that will cause the same thing to happen at the state level and in fact almost everyone in the country will receive a check from the state for around $2,000.00. I realize that that amounts to around 500 Billion Dollars in returns. I also know how that will be performed. We can do it.

I do not have time to here to describe all that will be done to secure our nation, its economy, the economy of the several states, and the peaceful efficient and effective change back to OJ government in our nation. I can say that it is all well planned out. I can also say that we need your help. The time is now. We can do it.

Many people that have been involved in the battle for freedom today have
been callused by that battle. That is understandable. When they hear these things, if they understand them, they begin to think about my life being in danger. To that I have this to say: Stop worrying and do what ever you can to awaken our nation to what we have already done and to what we have yet to do, because my life is not in danger. The families that have been in control of the banks are currently very upset with the controls that have been placed over them by the controls of the IMF through the Bank of International Settlements. They have much to loose if they continue in that path. They have nothing to lose and much to gain by following on the path we have set in motion. And, The King of Kings has promised me that I will live and not die and see and take part in the Second coming of the King. Outside of His power there is no power on this earth that can stop that.

PS I am still looking for Supreme Court Judges for the Original
Jurisdiction national Supreme Court. We have many Governors that are still looking for Senators and Judges. We need your help awakening all of the media services to the return of the OJ government and to the awakening of the nation to the same thing.


For the purpose of resetting our nation on our Constitution,
we raise our Title of Liberty as a rally cry for freedom:
In memory of our God, our faith, and freedom,
and of our spouses, our children, and our peace.
Join with us,
Governor Madsen

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:22
Fred(@Vienna) () ID#185448:
Nick

remember Leo?
Then take this:
( ... ) Soil sampling and trenching at North Asuadai intercepted significant mineralisation along strike from the Edubia-Asuadai prospect, including 2m a 500g/t and 2m a 250g/t Au. ( ... )
( Announced 09/12/98 )
Off to buy a shovel and dig it out myself.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:14
Nick@C (Dang it Auracious!!!) ID#386245:
One of my favourite sayings:

Definition of a gold mine?
A hole in the ground surrounded by liars.

Now if good ol' Sam Clemens didn't say it, he probably thought it!!!

Now will you please stop interupting my sense of reality with facts!?!
...........................
PS -- only the big kids on the block are allowed to have the bang bang toys!! You know who made this rule The big kids on the block!!

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:06
Fred(@Vienna) () ID#185448:
Propaganda and counter-propaganda.

its a sad day

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 04:06
Dabchick (Wednesday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates) ID#258195:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For Wednesday 16th Dec calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
$LIBOR-------------5.56--------------5.22-------------5.06-----------------5.00

Mean GoldLR------3.91---------------3.92-------------3.70-----------------3.49
Gold Lease Rate---1.65---------------1.30-------------1.36-----------------1.51
( Change ) ------ ( + 0.14 ) ------- ( + 0.07 ) ------- ( + 0.06 ) ----------- ( + 0.08 )

Silver Lend Rate----4.00--------------3.35-------------2.35-----------------2.05
Silver Lease Rate---1.56--------------1.87--------------2.71-----------------2.95
( Change ) --------- ( + 0.03 ) -------- ( - 0.10 ) --------- ( + 0.05 ) ------------ ( - 0.02 )
$LIBOR = BBA London rate fixed at 11am
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild
Lease Rate = $LIBOR minus Lending Rate .
( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day

For comparison with $LIBOR, the FT rates for US Dollar CD's ( mid rates ) are as follows:
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
US$ CD's-----------4.82-------------4.74---------------4.72---------------4.68
Regards.............Dabchick

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 03:54
aurator () ID#255284:
jims
brother
have you forgotten that Amerka has weapons of mass destruction ( WOMD ) , and is now using these weapons to enforce its reality on other countries? One part of that reality is that other countries are not allowed to own WOMD. Now, which nation is the only nation to use WOMD?


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 03:47
jims (Seems to be forgotten...) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
that Sadam is building weapons of mass distruction...the press reporting the events seem to have more concern for the Iraqi diplomats than what could prospectively be millions' fate if Iraq were not stopped in her tracks toward building those terrible weapons.

While no fan of Clinton and critical that steps to eraticate him and his weapons have not been more decisive in the past I support his actions and think the House should wait til next week to take their impeachment vote which will have the effect of referring the matter to the Senate where there are not sufficent votes to remove Clinton from office and everybody knows it.

There is no crisis - gold is steady to lower - oil is in surplus and that's not likely to change...deflation will resume after this brief uptick as shorts have yet another chance to establish postions.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 03:47
Nick@C (PCM@02:39) ID#386245:
Extremely well said.
May I just add that there is considerable jockeying going on over vast oil resources. I am not talking about those in the Middle East. The southern ex-Soviet republics may have reserves that far outstrip the Arab countries. Control of this vital area will be necessary for the superpowers of the 21st century. Unfortunately wars are usually about land and/or resources. China is well aware of what it will take to be numero uno in the next century. So is the US. Status quo vs. up-and-comers. Much more to this than is seen on the surface.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 03:44
Fred(@Vienna) () ID#185448:
aurator
re-mail scheduled for today. Sorry for the delay.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 03:16
RETIRED SOLDIER (Auric) ID#399147:
10-4

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 03:09
Cage Rattler (Use it or lose it !) ID#33184:
Military contractors have been hinting , that one OTHER reason for the coordinated UNSCOM-pull-out-hit-ol'Bagdad is certain expiry dates on missiles warranties to which the Navy had alerted. Either fire them now, or lose them altogether. Just like the last 3 days in the Kuwait-War, where everything still working was triggered into no-mans-land.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:50
aurator (Liars: Truth: Stuff like that...........) ID#251181:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As I journey a track of my choosing, I have had to question all that I once knew that I knew.

When one finally knows {nose} that which one knew is no longer correct, one travelling my track must make a mark on a tree to alert those who may follow that a trap lays ahead. This is my mark:

I have known, for about 10 years that Mark Twain {Samuel Clements} said:

A gold miner is a liar standing next to a hole in the ground.

Or something similar. Well, it looks like Mark Twain said nothing of the sort:
http://marktwain.miningco.com/library/texts/bl_notmarktwain.htm

Kim A. McDonald, Many of Mark Twain's Famed Humorous Sayings Are Found to Have Been Misattributed to Him, Chronicle of Higher Education ( Sept. 4, 1991 ) , A8.

Those who have read Charles Mackay's Extraordinary Popular Delusions {goodness knows I have been responsible for several posters on this site having their own copies---Envy, yours was despatched this am} should be aware that he has got several facts wrong, through relying on secondary sources rather than originals......Caveat lector

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:46
Auric (Must Read Commentary on the Twilight of the Clinton Presidency ) ID#257312:

Here is a well written slam on the Clintons.
http://www.nypost.com/commentary/8531.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:45
Cage Rattler (Did they know in advance ...) ID#33184:
High frequency volatility mappings in forex Friday last week and Tuesday this week indicated that major players were positioning themselves for a short term play. This was pointed out *before* the start of 'Desert Fox'. True to form, dollar spikes occurred allowing for substantial profits.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:39
PCM (Nick: Yes, we don't want to get rid of Saddam.) ID#169332:
Copyright © 1998 PCM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes, we don't want to get rid of Saddam. There are strategic reasons you might have mentioned, which have little to do with elected officials, ( including Presidents ) .
Balance of power in the region would be threatened. Iraq is a limit on Iran's influence, which is perceived as more of a threat to the West's interests than Saddam. Israel shares this view. Instability in Iraq is not desirable. The US efforts to work with dissidents to get rid of Saddam in the past years were and are suspect, they may have been sabotaged ? State Department people in Iraq were forbidden to speak to dissidents even after the Gulf War, ‘tho this is not the open policy now.
An aside: rebellious Iraqi generals in the south were refused their request to use captured Iraqi arms by our armed forces all the time they were fighting Saddam.
So we have sold more arms. Now Saudi Arabia and Iran, traditional enemies, are showing signs of rapprochement. And Iraq may be pushed to join with Iran against the West. Then there are forty or so Muslim former Soviet countries to the north that are going to look for support against Russia and the West. Japan needs Middle East oil. Let's not even consider here the peace prospects for Israel and her neighbors, and the situation in Turkey.
Bombing Iraq seems counterproductive to some ( including me ) . So do sanctions against Iraq ( and Iran ) . It fits with a shortsighted policy of realpolitik . However, the stronger expression of realpolitik usually avoids military force, favors economic incentives or bribes. Of course there are no easy answers. Our foreign policy seems to avoid important questions and get boxed into limited options, again and again.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:12
aurator (Did I really write this? ) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Envy
Ok, well what about

Piracy
You have two cows. I steal them, then eat them after plundering your town. This is an idealogically correct free market.

Wiccanism
You have two cows. They are sacrificed for the sake of the coven on All Hallows Eve inside a pentangle, surrounded by candles. We drink their blood, passing the cup widdershins, and preserve the horns as sacred objects. We starve and depend upon handout from an evil government.

Genetic Engineering
You have two cows. Each cow grows three bales of wool each year. One cow gives strawberry flavoured milk, the other cheddar cheese. They cannot reproduce, except with chickens. The lab that created them gets a fat government grant.


Nanobiotechnology
You have two cows. They have GPS sensors and can be programmed to kill a target. They wander off looking for Saddam Hussein.





Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:10
RETIRED SOLDIER (Bombings) ID#399147:
Why am I NOT SURPRISED? The timing is the thing.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 02:00
Envy (@Aldebaran) ID#219363:
I guess that depends on if your countries currency gets knocked down enough to get rid of its huge trade deficit, and if it can do it in such a way so as to not crush the markets you want to export your cows to, and yet forces up the price on imported cows to a level that makes it worth your money to take them to market. Inflation happens in deflationary times, it just doesn't happen fast enough to keep up. *grin*.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:55
snowbird (CRB Index chart indicating a major breakout point on oil & gas) ID#220325:
Looks like this is what we have been waiting for, just one nudge more and we are on the way

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:51
aurator (A whirling dervish at the billabong.....) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Nick@stealthbomber
Natch, the assassination team would have to make the assassination {rhymes with THC} look like an accident; it's part of the art, to avoid the obvious apparent retribution, but, I thot that El Presidenté was a master at arranging the disappearance of his enemies.

You are right, while the 'visible' intention is to depose Saddam, the secret intention is, well, secret. It may have to do with oil. It may have to do with US bases. It may even have to do with ziva-less days. Who nose? But Saddam could be removed at any time.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:48
Envy (@Aurator) ID#219363:
And a classic ...

ZEN MYSTICISM

You have two cows. You wander off and search for a bull. You discover it's footprints. You begin to perceive it. You catch the bull. You tame it. You ride the bull. You transcend the bull. You transcend both the bull and yourself. You reach the source. And finally, you are in the world.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:47
Aldebaran (Envy but if you kill both cows) ID#240155:
won't the price of cows go up later?

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:32
Envy (Asia) ID#219363:
Mostly red.

http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:31
Envy (U.S. Stock Market Crash Index) ID#219363:
Went back up to -6 for tomorrow from -8 today.

http://www.wwfn.com/crashupdate.html

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:24
Envy (@Aurator) ID#219363:
Don't forget ...

DEFLATIONARY CAPITALISM

You have two cows. You kill both to avoid paying to feed them.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:16
BigFisherman (Down boy down) ID#258273:
come on silver, settle down, I am not done buying....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:16
Nick@C (Zivaurator and Oris) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I concur with your sentiments on getting rid of Saddam ( or Soddom--as the Yanks prefer to call him ) . You have overlooked one tiny thing. The US DOES NOT WANT TO GET RID OF SADDAM!!!! That's right. They WANT him in power in Baghdad.

The reasoning is rather circumspect. Better to have an enemy that can be called upon to:
1 ) Save political carcasses when necessary
2 ) Justify arms deployment in the Middle east
3 ) Act as general bogeyman for domestic purposes ( defense budgets etc. ) .

Nazi movies are getting a bit tiresome, after all.

There is also an unwritten rule among the world's leaders. You are not allowed to assassinate other heads of state under any circumstances. They may just come for you next. BJC certainly doesn't want Iraqi hit squads roaming the US looking for an opportunity.

Saddam would have been gone long ago if it were not for all of the above. Ghadafi and various other leaders also would have bitten the dust by now.

Saddam is good value. Enemies of his stature are hard to find!! If there were no Saddam, Hollywood and the D.O.D. would have to create one.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:14
SDRer (POG - FF Report: December 16, 1998...an expensive day) ID#93135:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

1 ) XEU:XAU= 0.00402: 248.756218191….diff = 0.0197911
Per Millions = $22,252.48

2 ) USD:XAU=0.003396: 294.464075….diff = 0.035925
Per Millions = $35,924.62

3 ) DEM:XAU=0.002043: 489.4762604…diff = ( 0.1053 )
Per Millions = ( $63,345.01 )

4 ) JPY:XAU=0.00002928: 34153.005464…diff = ( 2.8055 )
Per Millions = ( $24,194.33 )

5 ) CNY:XAU=0.0004102: 2437.83520…diff = ( 0.02520 )
Per Millions = ( $3,044.57 )

6 ) SDR:XAU= 0.004789: 208.812…diff = 0.00
Per Millions = $0.00

Goodnight all.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:08
BigFisherman (Cherokee) ID#258273:
Ah yes, the little white buffalo has come of age...

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:04
BigFisherman (all together now) ID#258273:
might as well be walking on the sun....

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 01:03
aurator (Meanwhile, down on the farm) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is an update of something I posted here a while ago, copied from the www, ain't it someping?


DIFFERENT VIEWS ON TWO COWS

FEUDALISM:
You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.

FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk.

PURE COMMUNISM:
You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

APPLIED COMMUNISM:
You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but
the government takes all the milk.

DICTATORSHIP:
You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

MILITARIANISM:
You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.

SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. The government fines you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment.

PURE DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.

AMERICAN DEMOCRACY:
The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair Cowgate.

BRITISH DEMOCRACY:
You have two cows. You feed them sheep brains and they go mad. The government doesn't do anything.

BUREAUCRACY:
You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.

CAPITALISM:
You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

HONG KONG CAPITALISM:
You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly-listed company, using letters of credit opened by yourbrother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax deduction for keeping five cows. The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Islands company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the right to all seven cows' milk back to the listed company. The annual report says that the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because of bad fung shui.

FEMINISM:
You have two cows. They get married and adopt a veal calf.

TOTALITARIANISM:
You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned.

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS:
You are associated with ( the concept of ownership is a symbol of the phallocentric, warmongering, intolerant past ) twodifferently aged ( but no less valuable to society ) bovines of nonspecified gender.

COUNTERCULTURE:
Wow, dude, there's like...these two cows, man. You have *got* to have some of this milk.

SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.


Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:56
Earl (Silas Marner: ..... What's falafel?) ID#227238:
I share your lack of enthusiasm for the grits in the big green pouch. A C ration by any other name .... is but a C ration.

By coincidence, my roomie and I made another trip to the grain store today. ..... For 50 bucks you will be lacking for quantity but there is no problem with variety. .... and enough to live on for a month at least.

A major cost is storage containers. Those 4 and 5 gallon containers add up fast.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:35
Silas_Marner (MRE's aint' for me...) ID#286461:
MRE's are way overrated. For one thing they are as expensive as
eating at a restaurant 3 times a day. Next, the government buys
them from lowest bidders, and their quality stinks.

For $50 you can get an enormous quantity of good dried food: rice,
beans, grits, corn, nuts, dried fruit, and my personal favorite
Middle Eastern staple, falafel. You might save yourself a
coronary attack in the process.

~Silas~

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:28
crazytimes (Best post tonight...) ID#344326:
zivatron, we need a zivatron

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:27
Bottom$ (Sharefin-nice to see you still aboard) ID#206196:
Sharefin- Am not sure if I've just been missing your posts the last week or so but was glad to see you posting tonite. I remember your threat to abandon our site as soon as you sell your house and head for the hills- away from all modern conveniences, computers, etc. etc. etc.

I empathize with your goals but I selfishly hope that you continue to keep us on the cutting edge of information even after you sell your house and move to the sticks. Godspeed, Sharefin.

Bottom$

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:27
Squirrel (Invest in MRE's - at least you can eat 'em!) ID#287186:
MREs are effectively GONE from the US civilian market. Has FEMA buried nearly all of North America's MRE's in Missouri. Does any distributor have a decent supply?
Above quote from http://web2.airmail.net/foodstr2/addlprds.htm
( the rumored truths to this are hauntingly close to the movie Deep Impact )

Maybe MRE's are a better investment than Gold.
They certainly seem to be rarer.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:16
Rack (Sharefin and canadian readers) ID#411163:
Sharefin-a month or so ago you posted an example of Y2k preparedness about NSP- Northern States Power-NSP stated they were Y2K ready and you had found several statements saying that they were in fact not even close. Could you re post them? I live under NSP's power system.
Another for any Canadians-As Canada ships a lot of power to us in the USA. Will Manatoba ( sp ) Hydro be Y2k ready? Someone posted long ago that they would not be.
Thanks.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:15
aurator (zivatron.......we need a zivatron.........) ID#257148:
oris
zigackly
A small assassination force to take out Saddam. How can the, ahhem, greatest nation on earth, the, ahhem, world's Policeman not have the men/materiel for such a specialised target force? Isn't the, ahhem, goal of the attack on Iraq to remove that madman, Hussein?

Hasn't anyone in the US gobmint seen a Sly Stallone movie?



Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:07
Squirrel (Lurker gridlock and even worse to come - Korea?) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When access gets tight here I move to nights. Need an evening nap anyway.
When ( not if ) impeachment moves to the Senate, where will Clinton strike to distract folks. What is bigger than even Iraq. Someplace with nukes - Korea!

Since he is the devious planner - did he purposely put off this chess move until impeachment became hotter. Yes he is going after Saddam's military capability - maybe even rightly so. He could have done it earlier but why waste such a move when he could kill two birds with the same move - put it off until it could derail impeachment too.
It may have backfired on him though. Thus he must pull an even bigger rabbit out of his hat - an ever escalating game of chicken.

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:01
oris (EJ) ID#249244:
Good shooting, brother...It really looks so. Clinton
said on TV: Saddam Hussein and Other Enemies of the
Peace... I'm curious who are those other friends...



Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:01
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold) ID#105139:
Fidelity Select Gold today has BROKEN through it's
THREE year overhead resistance level!

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/gldresit.htm

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:01
Silas_Marner (The high cost of manipulating a market...) ID#286461:
Well now the US is at war. Does this mean that it's going to get
too pricey to keep gold prices under $300? Could we be looking at
a late December gold rally?

~Silas~

Date: Thu Dec 17 1998 00:00
Envy (The Prudent Opinion) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
[...] Despite the Dow's narrow 30-point loss and the S&P500's 5-point decline so far this week, trading in many stocks has been sporadic and volatile. Stocks sensitive to a deteriorating global economy are under heavy selling pressure. So far this week, the Dow Transports and the Morgan Stanley Cyclical index have led on the downside declining 2%. The Morgan Stanley Consumer index is basically unchanged. The small cap Russell 2000 has declined almost 1.5% as the small caps are definitely underperforming again, as they have for most of 1998. Technology stocks are mixed with the NASDAQ 100 losing 1%, the Morgan Stanley Technology index unchanged, and the semiconductor stocks dropping 2%. Financial stocks, after performing poorly over the past two weeks, are outperforming somewhat with the S&P Bank index unchanged and the Bloomberg Wall Street index gaining 1%. Latin America looks to be in real trouble as Brazil has lost another 8% so far this week bringing its December loss to 23%. Mexico is weak also, declining 4% this week. [...]

http://www.prudentopinion.com/mkcomm.htm

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