Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:48
John Disney (unstable Platinum supplies from RSA..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For Brother Oris ..
Sorry not to answer sooner .. to my knowledge there
are no quota arrangements formal or informal on PGMs
in RSA. The two big RSA producers Amplat and Implat
have been making record profits for the last year or
so because of the cheap Rand. Implats have capacity
shut in at one mine they own ( Barplat ) .. so in a
way ( even without quotas ) they are not trying to take
customers that traditionally belong to Russia ..
since it would obviously lead to lower prices all
Marginal producers like Northam have higher cost
resources of 100 million oz or so .. at a capitilzation
cost under 2 dollars per oz. Implats and Amplat
resources are massive.
All the above applies for Platinum only .. As you
know RSA is a minor player compared to Russia in
palladium supply .. RSA simply sells whatever they
produce as a by-product ..
I find it amusing that some posters go back to the
old conventional wisdom that RSA will see vast
upheaval when Mandela passes away.. If the world
really believes that .. why dont we see platinum
stockpiling and a surge in the price ..
after all .. RSA produces 75 % of the world supply..
perhaps someone could explain..

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:46
Nick@C (Auracious) ID#386245:


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:39
tolerant1 (huh!?!) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:32
TheMissingLink (M3) ID#371380:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1996.01 4626.90
1996.02 4658.77
1996.03 4692.26
1996.04 4710.24
1996.05 4739.27
1996.06 4764.33
1996.07 4781.23
1996.08 4797.74
1996.09 4828.04
1996.10 4862.71
1996.11 4889.69
1996.12 4931.08
1997.01 4956.82
1997.02 4993.69
1997.03 5028.06
1997.04 5071.61
1997.05 5088.21
1997.06 5111.71
1997.07 5152.32
1997.08 5198.67
1997.09 5237.78
1997.10 5274.79
1997.11 5326.26
1997.12 5376.79
1998.01 5423.18
1998.02 5463.67
1998.03 5529.35
1998.04 5578.90
1998.05 5612.75
1998.06 5643.82
1998.07 5650.87
1998.08 5707.19
1998.09 5776.28
1998.10 5838.32
1998.11 5909.59

Up $71 billion in November!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:32
aurator () ID#255284:
Mo in To

Mo' details please

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:30
mole (BGR) ID#350145:
I was just guessing. I knew nothing of BGR's makeup until now. Thanks. I thought it had been established here. I know some investors prefer more stable countries.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:28
Today was wonderful day...thanks for your wonderful work in putting the gang together in TO. I'll treasure it.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:20
aurator () ID#255284:
Dat broad ain't got no rowlocks, {it rhymes with bollocks} let alone oars.

What rhymes with oars?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:10
Auric (Linda Newkook ) ID#257312:

That broad don't have both oars in the water.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:05
MoReGoLd (@BGR profile, 36% USA, 25% Africa --- As of last January ) ID#347264:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 23:00
SWP1 (@Earl) ID#233199:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:59
Pete (Oooooooops, ANOTHER gremlin) ID#222231:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:57
Pete (Tolerant1, namaste and a huff and a puff 2u, gulp, gulp, slop, slop, gimme a towel. ) ID#222231:
Here tis, repent and confess you sinner before it is too late.

hasta la vista,

Pedro {[;- ) ) ) )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:40
MoReGoLd (@G-spot) ID#348129:
Thats cool...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:37
MoReGoLd (@More BGR, Check the NAVPS compared to the share price (C$9.10)) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BGR Precious Metals announcement/results

( Full text of press release from Canadian Corporate News )

DECEMBER 10, 1998
BGR Precious Metals Inc. Announces Third Quarter 1998
TORONTO, ONTARIO--BGR Precious Metals Inc. announced today

its results for the third quarter ended October 31, 1998. The net asset value per share at October 31, 1998 was $14.29 compared to $13.66 at July 31, 1998. This represents a 4.6 percent increase in the net asset value for the three months.

Net loss for the nine months ended October 31 was $11.3 million or $1.53 per share compared to $2.0 million net income or $0.27 per share for the previous year. Net realized losses on the sale of investments were $7.9 million versus net realized gains of $4.1 million for the same period of the prior year.

The net assets of the Company were $106.1 million at October 31, 1998, up from $101.4 million at July 31, 1998. The net increase of $4.7 million was the result of unrealized market appreciation ( net of deferred taxes ) of $4.9 million and a net loss of $0.2 million during the quarter.

BGR Precious Metals Inc. is a closed-end investment company, managed by Dundee Investment Management & Research Ltd., which provides investors with an opportunity to invest in a managed portfolio of primarily precious metals-related investments with the principal objectives of capital appreciation and the provision of a hedge against inflation, while providing a portfolio diversified among issuers and among the countries in which the issuers operate.


BGR Precious Metals Inc.
Rosanna Gatti
( 416 ) 365-5129

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:33
G-spot (MoReGoLd... Sorry about the format. It was set up as 3 columns but) ID#434226:
the format got scrambled considerably.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:31
MoReGoLd (@mole, Goldteck RE: BGR closed end fund (BPT.A)) ID#348129:
If anyone has an uptodate list on holdings please post here. Last I saw they had a lot of SA shares. Better if they don't. I didn't see them holding
Barrick or Placer. This fund is on SALE.....

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:26
ssc-nut (carmack(stock pick)) ID#288286:
Try Iam going to try it myself if it does gap up to much. I have been watching it for a while and it works. This Mondays pick is USXP.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:23
MoReGoLd (@g-spot) ID#348129:
Thanks for that list.... i

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 22:05
Old Soldier (Sharefin 21:41) ID#238299:
Great weapons article. I have killed many enemy soldiers in combat and had my choice of weapons. I now choose the M1 in .30-06 and the .45 ACP. According to GEN George Patton the M1 is, The finest infantry weapon ever devised by the hand of man. Or words to that effect. I can find no more modern weapon to cause me to revise that opinion.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:59
sharefin (Just a test site so far - much more to do.....but the info is there..^o-o^) ID#284255:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:41
sharefin (an invasion of vertically-challenged persons-of-green-color from Mars) ID#284255:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:35
POLARBEAR (When a facade is all there is to save) ID#183109:

The Clinton saga, which began so innocently so long ago in the casino culture of Hot Springs, grows nuttier by the hour as the president's men, desperate to preserve the facade of a presidency disintegrating in the fetid juices of its own squalor, throw up ever more of the nonsense that would get a sophomore law student laughed out of the Ark-La-Tex Institute of Law, Cosmetology and Mortuary Science.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:34
G-spot (Here is the list of 1998 posters) ID#434226:
Copyright © 1998 G-spot/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
24K 6Pak 2BR02B?
4bear a.j. Allen ( USA )
A.Goose Adrian Auric
APH APH_b Arden
ALBERICH Aldebaran AU*stralian
Agman Aragorn III aurator
Aussidave Aussie alrea
A AE_Calgary arkbuilder
Auwolf arby AUH20
AZAU ABM aurophile
ArmGold Argent ANOTHER
Bill El Zebub Bradfrog BillD
Bart BUGal BigFisherman
Bottom$ bondsman Bernie
bmacd Boardreader Bully Beef
BillinOregon Beamer blooper
buff Barney badger
Bingo Chas ChasAbar
Charles Keeling Carpe Aurem crazytimes
Carl Caper cherokee
Cueball Crmblr Cage Rattler
Cyclist Crystal Ball Cobra
Charleston Gold Bug CompGeek CoolJing
cool lurk crossbow colleen
Cowgirl CC clone
Carmack Chicken man contrarian
CEAUX-DUTHEIL.Stephane Chrisophilos CPO@AU
Donald D.A. Delphi
Digger Da Kine doormat
ddb3 Dutchman Dabchick
Denton,Tx Dave Duke
Digdeep dirt dungbeetle
Doctor Gold DEJ
glenn Gagnrad General
G-Nutz G-spot Geo Geoff
Greenstone Gold GIBBOUS Gene
gwyz Gollum Gusto Oro
Gold Dancer GOLDY LOTS Goldteck
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD gogold Goldbug23
Gold Silver & Platinium Bug Good ol' boy Gravel
gunrunner goldfevr George
geoffs Gianni Dioro Grizz
goldnbones GW GFD
GingaDin Gazebo Gambler
Earl EB esotericist
EZ Believer Elderado Ersel
Farfel Fred Fergie
Forklift_A Fred ( @Vienna ) FOX-MAN
Freasyberry Frustrated Flash
farmer Frail
Isure Imrahil IDT
Highhopes hugo Hedgehog
HOOSIER Highrise Hut
HepMeMoney_Hmm Hopefull haulpak
jonesy John Disney Jin
Jack James Jeil
JTF jims Jinx44
Jpb JEW jcw
jefsilver Johan jman
JimX67 John B Junior
JP J Jim Bob
kapex kiwi kolorado
kitkat kuston Khamba
Leland LGB longj
Loose Lips lefty kiwi lady_bug
Lsteve Lazlo T lakshmi
Liberty Lou Paquette Lurker 777
MoReGoLd Midaswell Mo in To
Max Moseley Mooney* Myrmidon
Mike Stewart Mike Sheller Midas
Milo Milo Frdr Miro
mole Mole Mountain Goat
MM mozel mapleman
messy79 Marshall muse
moa Mtn Bear ( SE ) Mr.Mick
nuggets NTEOWAWKI Nick@C
Neophyte Novice neer-do-well
NightWriter Nocte Volens NJ
Old Soldier OLD GOLD oris
Obsidian observer ORCA
Oro Oldman Oliver
Prometheus Pete Polarbear
PH in LA PJL Petronius
panda powmain plaintalker
Pu'ukani PMF ptwoskool
pdeep Pack Rat Puetz
Paul Poorboys Preacher
Psilver Psyched PLAYr ProVeritas
quion97 Questor@Observations
rube Recify Ray
ray robnoel_A Rob
Retearivs rhody ravenfire
RETIRED SOLDIER Realistic Rumpled
RB Richard Burke RLM
Roebear ROR Regulus
ria Rising Sun Raconteur
Ridgerunner Redapple
snowbird Steve in TO SWP1
Steve-Perth sharefin Strad Master
Silverbaron Squirrel Speed
Savage Skylark Selby
Skeptic Shadowfax STUDIO.R
Spud Master silver plate SteveIS
skinny Shek strat
Spock Supernaut SandGropher
sorex summicron Snowball
Straddler shlomo StrongMan
Servhard Sweat Suspicious
Schippi Schultz Skip
Silas Marner ssc-nut sam
tolerant1 Tamerlane TheMissingLink
Tyoung Ted THC
THE Priest Test Tyro
trader_vic Tantalus Tantalus Rex
Tortfeasor Tpher Trinovant
tricky Theme Investor The Hatt
truenorth TechTrader
Thin Long and Hard On This ( was Think Long and Hard On This )
Voyeur Professor
vhale vronsky
wombat Who Cares? Walt
Winston Will wondering
windy lake Wizened WDL
weiser Wet Gold
yellowcab Year2000
xanadu xau5

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:32
glenn (gold) ID#376309:
We should know soon enough if it is true but from what I can tell on a quote machine I have Gold went up $0.80 in trading during the saturday morning session in Hong Kong.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:30
A (Linda's Message) ID#254172:
A while ago I put Linda Newkirks false message on disk. Unfortunately HTML files are not postable otherwise I would post it so that every one could get a chance to pick it apart.

King Steven

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:29
Greenstone Gold (OOOOPPPSSSSS....sliped on THAT banana.....) ID#428232:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:28
Greenstone Gold (Don't slip on THAT banana.......) ID#428232:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:26
Greenstone Gold (What's a banana or two between friends.......) ID#428232:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:22
aurator () ID#255284:
Only a knadian kan knoodle in a knoe.

I deny all the charges, and will buy the video from you for a couple of ballerinas.

Old Soldier.
Probably the best place for a palladium balerina; in the imagination of a little girl. Your treasures are truly treasures.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:17
aurator () ID#255284:
Here's ANOTHER Knadian Kwiz
Only a knadian kan knoode in a knoe?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:17
ArmGold (aurator.. come on you very well know who Linda is!) ID#247428:

Linda is the one who gave you that mapleleaf in the oval office! ( grin ) come now Mr Aurator tell the truth to the kitco people. They deserve the entire truth. It would be very wise for you to tell all before we bring out the heavy guns.

( minutes later Linda shows up holding something behind her back )

Ok now tell all before...

( and Linda shows the crowd gathered at Kitco an unwashed maple ) ( LOL )

Kind Regards

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:14
tolerant1 (aurator, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:
I was just going to ask the same question...even searched for it for a while and could find nothing about a Linda Newkirk...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:14
Old Soldier (aurator, scanning is not possible.) ID#238299:
Alas, the ballerina has been wrapped by my even lovelier youngest daughter and is now under the tree.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 21:08
aurator () ID#255284:
Huh? I said nothing of this linda or that linda. Who the feck is Linda? What are you implying?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:56
A (Linda's screw up) ID#254172:
Copyright © 1998 A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well it looks like Linda Newkirk got it all wrong since we are all here inspite of ourselves. Next time Linda if your going to predict that North America and Isreal are going to be turned in to glass parking lots then at least have the decency to make sure it happens on schedule. Otherwise you lose credibility. Well Aurator I enjoyed your statement concerning Linda's prediction. 2000 years ago she would have been stoned to death for telling lies in the name of god. She is fortunate that we live in more foregiviing times. On the other hand it is quite possible that some parts of North America and Isreal could use a severe chasetisement from God at the hands of enemy nations because of morally incorrect activities. As far as the year 2000 problem is concerned I believe this will test the moral character of humanity as well as our intellectual and technical abilities. In the name of God and all things civilized we must rise to the challenge and preserve all that we have achieved in order to make sure that we do not slip in to a new dark age where life and property is not safe. There is too much at stake here to let things go to Hell because of a computer problem.

Best regards King Steven

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:50
mole (Goldteck re BGR and SA gold stocks ) ID#350145:
I think BGR is worried about SA long term stability. Especially after Mandela passes away. Many are worried about stability in much of the third world and so prefer gold mines in more stable countries where you can better depend on both the countries stability and laws e.g. russia, indonesia, much of Africa, etc.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:29
aurator () ID#255284:
Let's spare a thought for a gathering of Kitco goldbugs taking place, as we speak, in Toronto. Have one on me fellas!

Old Soldier
can you scan your treasure?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:24
Carmack (SSC-Nut ,Stock Picks) ID#277224:
Am not familiar with this particular stock recommendation.
Is this a site that is available on the Net?
I am a sucker for 50%.This is goooooood no.What to do?
You know, get in and get the hell out.Happy hunting!!!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:17
Old Soldier (She isn't a proof. Only one of 27,000. Wow!! Low mintage eh!) ID#238299:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:12
Old Soldier (aurator) ID#238299:
I presume it is only a bullion coin. Can it get any better?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:07
aurator () ID#257148:
Old Soldier
The WGC says there were only 3,000 Proof Pd 1 oz minted in 1989, and another 27,000 circulated. She is hugging herself, no?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:07
Gollum (The London Silver Vaults) ID#43352:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:03
skinny (G Spot) ID#287114:
Yes.. Bring back old memories.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:02
aurator () ID#257148:
Old Soldier
Time to hand this one over to the coin experts. You've just got yourself one heck of a bargain, according to The World Gold Coin Catalogue, indeedy!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 20:01
Old Soldier (aurator ) ID#238299:
Oh yes!!! She is a big, beautiful, gorgeous, brilliant uncirculated 31.1 gram gal!!! She is lovely to hold and look at. I frequently get super precious deals at gun shows and super gun deals at antique shows.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:54
aurator () ID#257148:
Old Soldier
Is it really 31.1g? That's one ounce. You just bought yourself a Russian Palladium Ballerina for US$75.00!

Ohh la la!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:53
ssc-nut (MONDAY STOCK PICK) ID#288286:
Anyone familiar with a stcok advisery called Monday Stock Pick. I have been watching their pick for about five weeks now and their pick actually moves up 50% or more every Monday. I am sure it comes back down soon ( well I know it does ) but it usually moves up all week. Anyone else follow this or any suggestions. THANKS!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:51
G-spot (To all...I have compiled a list of all posters (handles) for) ID#434226:
the past year. I will post if anyone is interested.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:50
The Hatt (The Fed and its activities.....) ID#294232:
Not only is the Federal Reserve Board cutting interest rates but it is also adding exponentially to the money supply. Earlier this month it announced that the money supply is currently growing at an incredible annualized rate of 25%. In normal cicumstances, this extravagant growth in the money supply would translate into inflation, but these are not normal times. Instead this money has fueled price inflation in the financial markets, which is a typical result just prior to a collapse. This is text book case of a massive credit and asset bubble that will end in disaster.
Encouraged by the Fed, U.S. Banks are on a lending spree. In the four weeks ending Oct26/98 consumer credit rose 28.3% on an annualized basis and commercial and industrial credit increased 43.4%. I would argue these figures indicate not a credit crunch, but a credit craze.
Share price gains have given American consumers the confidence to spend. Not only are they spending, but they are also saving less and borrowing more.In Sept, total household savings turned negative for the first time in sixty years. U.S. debt is now in excess of 260% of GDP which is a record even exceeding the debt levels of 1929. Invariably, this expansion of credit reaches a critical mass and becomes very unstable due to the excessive speculation it finances. The credit bubble bursts and it is too late to avoid the catastrophe of markets and currency.
The writing is on the wall for all to see and as I forcasted some time ago I fully expect to see the Dow crash before Christmas. just one mans opinion.....

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:49
Speed (Erle) ID#29048:
Netscape fonts can be changed by selecting from the topmost menu bar:
1. Edit
2. Preferences
3. Appearance
4. Fonts

You can change your variable width and fixed width fonts among other things.

From the View Menu, you can increase and decrease the screen font with a couple of clicks of the mouse. This helps tremendously with small text on some web pages.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:46
Old Soldier (Pd report) ID#238299:
I went to a gun show today in Atlanta Georgia, USA. Chance favors the prepared mind. A fellow had a lovely coin with a ballerina in a gold pendant mount. Inspection with my loup revealed that it was marked Pd 999 31.1g. I asked his best cash price and the fellow said $75. It is a lovely addition to my precious collection. It is dated 1989.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:45
Tantalus Rex (EU Financing Meeting) ID#295111:
Anybody heard any news on todays EU meeting. I heard there was a 2 day meeting to discuss financing issues re: EURO/EU.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:40
ERLE (Newsies are giving a lot of speculation chat) ID#190411:
about what willie blythe is going to say about his sorry mess.
If I was wagering, I'd say that, rather than all of the staph written emanations, he will go on MTV and counsel the youngsters on the merits of self-abuse.
I upgraded to Netscape 4. from 3., and it is the pits. The font choice is especially bad. The text that one could read for hours, now looks as if it was years ago.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:39
Tantalus Rex (BULLISH news for Gold) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Last time I remeber Peter Ward of Lehman brothers opening his big mouth, I think he said the POG was going down to $250-$260 /oz this year. Well, that forecast was way off!!!! Since he is now forecasting $290 for next year, we can assume he'll be way off again for 1999! So if you use Peter Ward as a bench mark, then when he says $290, then gold has a very good chance of going to $350 in 1999.

``We believe 1999 will be another year of significant underperformance for the gold group,'' he said. ``In our opinion, gold equities
continue to discount a significant and sustainable rise in gold prices as if it were inevitable. It isn't.''

Peter Ward concluded, ``We are maintaining our long-term average gold price forecast of $290/ounce, the lowest on the street.''

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:33
Earl (SWP1:) ID#227238:
Perhaps not. Yes?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:31
Earl (G-Nutz:) ID#227238:
Wonder how long we must wait before reading about the lawsuit between the two law firms regarding an equitable division of the spoils? LOL.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:30
SWP1 (@LeftyKiwi) ID#233199:
re: your 15:03

I have never had any conversations with God.....

Perhaps your every breath is a converstion with God?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:25
G-Nutz (Texas Lawyers Fees - Tabbaco/Umphrey Law Firm.) ID#433143:
Mr. Umphrey's firm and another are sharing 3.3 billion in fees. In an interview yesterday, Mr Umphrey stated that the 25 year payout was what nobody understood. He said you may see all these big numbers right now, what you have to understand is that if you give me a dollar today, what will it be worth 25 years down the road? I bet he has a little gold stashed somewhere... : )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:24
ERLE (Apologies are in order) ID#190411:
to the forum that is so generously provided by Mr. Kitner.
I was carried away by emotion when I attacked ROR the stalinist. I will leave that sort of behavior to the proper venue.
gogold, 'cause I think that it as cheap as you will see ( within 5% ) .

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:24
Donald (Saudi Arabia calls for patience on oil production cuts) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:24
tolerant1 (ROR, Namaste' gulp and a ID#20359:
The LEFT is DEAD...shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:21
The reason is that most people really feel this isnt a democracy ie their voice doesnt count. This is encouraged by the riight as if we had turnout the Republican conservatives would be truly an oppressed minority. The left is and always will be the friend of the people. There are times in history ( short lived ) where circumstances allow the right to ;ook this way..THEY ARE FAST ENDIN'

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:18
ArmGold (lefty kiwi ) ID#247428:
Hmmm that is great! the only thing is with me they would not need any Viagra ( LOL ) some guys I guess have all the luck.

Kind Regards


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:16
Earl (Erle:) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree with your assessment. This AM's edition had an article outlining the distribution of spoils in the tobacco matter. Unbelievable!

Just as in the arena of moral hazard, it raises the bar for the next great crusade. ...... The question is; who or what will be the next great devil to be pursued by plaintiff counsel.

I don't think the several states attorney's general realize the dimension of the whirlwind their collective greed has unleashed. Greed is on the prowl and the end will amaze us all. ...... At least those of us who will venture nothing lest we invite the interest of this monster.

A long time ago, someone made the comment that we would survive as a people by suing each other. ...... That time has arrived.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:13
tolerant1 (Elephants in the living room...psst...psst...psst...ROR, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:12
Donald (Desperate oil producers warn of social unrest and economic warfare from low prices) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:09
Goldteck (Moregold) ID#431200:
I wonder why BGR Management does not like S.A gold stocks.I noticed that some months ago.I agree they have a very good expertise in gold shares.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:08
tolerant1 (as I said...LOW voter turnout FACTS...) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:05
Delphi (EB, 15:52) ID#258142:
Thanks. So far I have posted this signal recently, I shall make follow-up. In general, this chart does not generate signals too often, so I do not think it is wise to post it say weekly, in case when it shows nothing. But I can come back with it when the time will be right.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:04
ERLE (ROR, are you out slummin' tonite?) ID#190411:
If you were my neighbor, I'd tell all of your downtrodden friends to party in your house, while you were on vacation to pick up your portion of the billions of paper dollars that you extorted from we smokers. I'd also ask them to drive your car off a cliff as is so common in NZ.
I keep asking you, but, you keep your cards so close to your chest, ( and up your sleeve ) , What about all of the positions that you have taken in Canadian juniors? Or, are you here as your chaming provacateur persona.
pissonya pal.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 19:00
Earl (ROR:) ID#227238:
It's amazing that the little folks have not discovered that Mr. Clinton has sold them out completely to the interests of the moneyed elite you detest so much. ....... In the end, BS is so much more effective than reason. Don't you agree?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:58
EJ (Y2K mania picking up steam) ID#45173:
Just did a search on Lycos for Y2K and Survival and got:

1,364,457 total results

Did the same six months ago, got:

223,586 total results


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:56
tolerant1 (ROR, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...oh no...let us not start creating facts here...o'tay...) ID#20359:
the recent election was one of the lowest turn-outs...the other being when Clintler was re-elected...that is not resonance...what it means is the self serving bastards that live off everyone else voted while the vast majority who are fat and happy did not because they were completely happy and therefore totally apathetic...

In addition I think that the entire worldwide welfare state and statists ( leeches ) are both dead meat...

Long live the RESPONSIBLE individual...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:43
ROR (tolerant) ID#35770:
The Republicans have never been able to hold on as they have the interest of big business and not the people at heart ie they are consistently anti-consumer. The next depression will sweep Wall St Lawrence Kudlow Capitalism into the dust bin of history. The last election demonstrated that even under the worst of circumstances ie Clinton, the progressive message resonates. The elitist republican conservative message can only dominate under unique circumstances and only for a very short period of time. PREDICTION..Dems take both houses back in 2000 though maybe a BusH Presidency.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:35
aurator (Ben Johnson is referring to a touchstone in the poem below) ID#255285:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

It's pretty rich calling someone a liar, old bean. Why don't you come out of the shadows and fess up to doing that which you accuse others of? Call yourself a christian? I thought that meant telling the truth? You speak half truth and half lies and, now, read your own words........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 14:36


{Let us now cast our minds back to....}

Date: Fri Oct 09 1998 05:20 BARUCH HA SHEM ( LOOKING TO G-D ) ID#258302:

{to which I enquired....}

Date: Fri Oct 09 1998 05:32 aurator ( ) ID#25490:
there's really no need to shout. There are many here who can ignore you just as easily if you use ordinary case typing.

{and Eddie chipped in....}

Date: Fri Oct 09 1998 05:45 Ersel ( SHOUTING..... ) ID#230376:
auracious is hurts the eyedrums and the earballs......gottago bbml after a glorious golden sunrise........ eddie@fingers_in-ears_gone

{Whereupon you excused yourself on the grounds.....}

Date: Fri Oct 09 1998 06:08

{then, by the grace of aurator....}

Date: Fri Oct 09 1998 06:20
aurator ( ) ID#25490: Baruch If your puter is messed up, why apologies are always accepted in these parts.
You might like to ponder on this:
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom and getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. proverbs ( 3:13-14 )

{But, wait, what’s this.....? It’s a miracle!!!! You can unlock your caps...Alley oo la la!!!....}

Date: Tue Oct 27 1998 07:35
BARUCH HA SHEM ( nov-25 ) ID#258302:
nov-25 is when last year gold went under 300 for the first time in a long time. i predicted it 6 monthes earlier on that day. maybe i got lucky -but i think we will see a big change nov 25 this year. all i know is it does not matter when it goes up - because it will . sooner or later because judging from the bible we are heading 4 a finacial disaster. ......


I think you should take your “truth” to another site where it may be better appreciated...


Truth is the trial of itself
And needs no other touch,
And purer than the purest gold,
Refine it ne'er so much.
Ben Jonson.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:18
tolerant1 (I think the American people want the loser out of the White House...only the most) ID#20359:
liberal of Dems and certain portions of the media want to keep the white trash in the office of President...the retribution will be the complete opposite of what the Dems and White House mouth pieces are saying...

Chaulk another prediction as...almost has happened... as when in The Great Reckoning it was stated that in 2000 the Repubs would take the White House and it would be 25 years before the Dems have another chance at it...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:12
EJ (Spud Master) ID#45173:
I agree that all that hoarded cash may show up as inflation at some point, but I put the date after the case for hoarding has been disproven, in early 2000 when all appears to be ok. Unless, of course, all is not ok. In that case, we'll all become very Japanese, hanging onto our cash for dear life.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:12
MoReGoLd (@Clittons Oats are Toasted) ID#348286:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Newspapers say Clinton apology too little too late

( Updates with vote on 4th article of impeachment in 5th para )

By Eddie Evans

WASHINGTON, Dec 12 ( Reuters ) - President Bill Clinton's latest apology was too little, too late, and he should admit to lying under oath as his only hope to fend off impeachment, leading U.S. newspapers said on Saturday.

While saying Clinton did not deserve to be removed from office, editorials said contrition counted for little unless Clinton set the record straight by confessing to perjury.

``There is something objectionable about yet another example of verbally excessive breast-beating combined with the appearance -- devoid of the reality -- of candor,'' an editorial in The Washington Post said.

Moments before the first vote against him on Friday, Clinton hastily assembled reporters at the White House to express deep remorse and say that he was ``profoundly sorry'' for his words and deeds in the sex and lies scandal.

The House Judiciary Committee then went on to pass three articles of impeachment against him and a fourth on Saturday. If the full House of Representatives approves the impeachment charges next week, the Senate would hold a trial early next year on whether to remove him from office.

Although Clinton said for the first time publicly that he was willing to accept congressional censure instead of impeachment, newspapers said his contrition was little different from what he has already said.

``It is hard to fathom what gain Bill Clinton thought he could achieve yesterday in restating his remorse over the Monica Lewinsky case while still dodging the core issue of his deceitful testimony under oath,'' The New York Times said.

``He declared his readiness to accept Congressional censure, but could not bring himself to say the words that could produce that outcome,'' the Times said.

The Washington Post agreed. ``There is little in this type of ritual apology that ought to help Mr. Clinton's case.''

``What would be right is for him to admit finally the obvious facts that he lied under oath,'' the Post said. ``Then he could make the case, a case we grudgingly support, that his offenses, while grave, should not cause his impeachment.''

The Boston Globe chided Clinton for his timing, saying Friday's tone and degree of self-condemnation fit his offenses better than his first acknowledgment in August of an ``inappropriate'' relationship with former White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

``If President Clinton had said on Aug. 17 what he said yesterday afternoon, the momentum for impeachment might be far different from what it is now,'' the Boston Globe said.

The Los Angeles Times said most Americans favored censure of Clinton by the House and Senate for dishonoring the office of President, along the lines already drawn up by Clinton's Democratic supporters.

``We think a joint resolution along these lines, signed by Clinton in acknowledgment of his reprehensible misconduct, would provide a responsible alternative to impeachment,'' the Los Angeles Times said. ``That is what most Americans continue to favor, not least because they wisely want to bring this dirty business to a rapid end.''

The San Francisco Examiner said, ``Unless Americans send Congress a clear message of their discontent, they will wake up one day late next week to learn that the president they elected has been impeached in this runaway process.''

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:09
EJ (tolerant1) ID#45173:
Y2K will bring out the best and worst in humans, to be sure.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:05
Spud Master (@EJ and inevitable Y2K inflation in 1999....) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since we have heard that the Federal Reserve will be printing $50 billion extra dollars to have on hand for covering demand for paper cash ala Y2K ... ( actually, I'm sure the Fed is printing something more like $500 billion - you know us poor, stupid cattle-electorate - can't be trusted with the facts - we'd stampede-panic )

This statement from the Fed legitimizes the fact that people already are sucking out paper cash money ( I love this machine - and it only takes three days to fix it ) from bank accounts, stocks, mutal funds...

... I have also bserved that when people get their hands on paper cash ( not checks ) , they tend to SPEND the cash, not take it to the bank.

So I posit: no matter what really happens due to Y2K, people should start chasing physical stuff with all that physical paper cash in 1999, causing pure price inflation.

Spud: Impeach, Try, Convict ... and kick his white-trash *ss of the Whore House, along with the rest of his camp followers.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 18:03
tolerant1 (EJ, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...since I did not get out of the 11th grade and I think) ID#20359:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
there is far too much highbrow being applied to what is happening I offer the following lowbrow...knuckle dragging simianhumantequilagulpus loput...

The combination of differing age groups and cultures having access to information and wealth ( and at such a high rate of speed ) as at no time in history before will result in the year 2000 on Januray 1 in what shall and can only be aptly described as the single greatest cluster f_ck the world has ever seen...I believe this is called a convergence by some...I prefer CF...

When technology...ideologies....class/age/sex-groups...religions and philosophies collide...

Got tickets?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 17:41
EJ (Reflation versus Y2K cash crunch) ID#45173:
From Sharefin's post earlier today, one thing I don't get. If the Fed is to continue to drop rates to soften the impact of a slowdown and to ward off runaway deflation, how can this be squared with, People are realising that money at the end of 1999 might be pretty expensive as is evidenced by the futures markets?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 17:30
Donald (@Earl) ID#26793:
No, I don't follow the Barron's Gold Stock Index, just the XAU. I have all the XAU/Spot Ratio calculated and charted from its inception on 12/19/83 through Friday. I can e.mail you a colorful .BMP chart for it all or any range of dates.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 17:11
Earl (Donald:) ID#227238:
Perchance, have you been keeping the ratio of Barron's gold stock index to bullion? If so, would 'ppreciate an update. TIA.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 17:08
neer-do-well (The answer) ID#391172:
Copyright © 1998 neer-do-well/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just about everybody here has described the propblem of deflation and reduced liquidity. The answer is simple.

Give people money

Not inflationary! Only taking advantage of the technilogical slack as production costs become less. We are locked into a medieval concept of economics--sibbling rivalry-status bullcrap!

Our surrvial depends on taking anpother look...ever been there? Change your mind and everything else changes.

To hell with left and right. there are enough demons in both camps to torpedo anything that can work, but people NEED and dersere a chance since it is there collective ass from which our technology has been hammered.

What is INTEREST but free to the rich. And inflationary. But free money to the poor would be spent on stuff and the economy would perk.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:47
Donald (The Great Depression: Its causes and cures) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:45
aurator () ID#255284:
Cos it wuz me what salted his pan.


Axually, thanks for letting me know, Donald. I'd never heard of the competition before. What bout you lefty? You're a Mainlander, perhaps we should target to get there next year? To be followed by a spot of salmon fishing? A kiwi kitco event?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:39
Donald (@Aurator: why is your name missing from this contest?) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:35
OLD GOLD (ROR) ID#242325:
Nothing better illustrates the total bankruptcy of what passes for a left in the US today than their single minded focus on defending Billy Clinton -- probably the best friend Wall Street ever had in the White House -- from impeachment. Never have I seen a more avid death wish among a major political grouping.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:32
CC (Moregold) ID#334219:
BGR Precious Metals NAV discount to market value always increase in bear markets. The closer it gets to 40%, the best buy is the stock. In bull markets, the stock will trade at par or at a small premium. BTW, their investments are diversified but they still concentrate on North American juniors and mid-tiers. Only some SA least that is last time I checked their portfolio.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:30
aurator () ID#255284:
I think there's more mileage in the running-board roasters yet.

All the hedgehogs in NZ are progeny of 6 that escaped from a garden in Christchurch over 100 years ago. In the last Depression, hedgehogs were eaten, baked in mud, I believe. Hedgehogs are a high percentage of all road kill, along with the stralian possum. Hmmm. I can see some fellas driving EQ Holdens purposely running down....{censored by the poor taste police}.......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:19
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmm...a translation page...a must for Kitco...ESPECIALLY EB...loser of the WINK...oh my...) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:15
Earl (Lefty Kiwi:) ID#227238:
LOL. Some guys have all the luck?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:14
Earl (Salty:) ID#227238:
That was an interesting piece on the SA running board roaster. Sort of like .... road kill cookery on the go. Yes? .... LOL, be interesting to hear JD's take on it.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:14
lefty kiwi (Tolerant ! ) ID#32176:
Thanks for the colliodal silver links

All from todays Sunday paper
Viagra Rape
A man was bound and gagged in a hotel room, force fed Viagra and made to have sex with two women calling themselves the Viagra Rape Squad

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:10
Earl (ROR:) ID#227238:
You're correct on every point. In addition, the 30's found NA ( Canada as well ) in the enviable position of having every conceivable commodity and resource in abundance, within our borders and available for exploitation at subsidized values. ..... My how the times have changed.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:05
cool lurk (@studio.aren't..........) ID#173226:
eebee. what is left of studio.r was spotted yesterday wandering aimlessly 'round da back of the Holy Jesus House and Mission on Reno street, way.downtown OKC. Madly muttering incessant spam'o'oil and pigs and see the only gold he has left is his cherished, half-empty can'o'krylon gold paint...sniffO.

yup, he was a pretty good ol' oilboy...but nevermore, ohmy...and 'round christmastime, you may find him huddled on your goldnosed bumdeer..........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:03
tolerant1 (lefty kiwi, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...let this link will take about 30 sec.) ID#20359:
then when you have the page loaded scroll down and you will find a section on the right with some more information you seek...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 16:02
ROR (Envy) ID#35770:
Copyright © 1998 ROR/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
good points/ this is why alot of asia/Russia and third world are suffering. Nevertheless the service economies have made huge loans to these economies and the US Govt has backed the debt of these countries.Further, the US has been effected as job growth has been in the low pay sector. The layoffs tell you that the deflation is affecting everything as cost reduction appears to be the only way to increase earnings. The US has kept going on credit and the stock market. When these bubbles burst it will be like as oil falling as to Venzuela ie the credit burst and stock market will kill the service economy. The deflationary cancer will effect all regions the same but manifest itself in different ways. In many ways the US was healthier in 1929 ie little deficits and while dependent on manufacturing it is now even MORE dependent today on finance and financial services which will be decimated in the economic depression. Its starting..

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:52
EB (.........Delphi.........) ID#187109:
Thanks buddy. Could you post that chart every week or so for us? I have printed it and have it hanging on the wall in the office. Good stuff that.

I am a chart freakusaurus. Can't get enough of 'em. BRING IT ON! ( grin ) .

thanks again. the charts


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:47
tolerant1 (lefty kiwi, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...some mo silver stuff) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:47
aurator () ID#255284:
You don't have to watch what you say. I've been speaking my {tiny} mind hereabouts for ages. Sometimes it goes down like cold vomit. I think I know why the merkans appear to be so much politer than we {appear}. If you insult a merkan, he can draw a gun on you. If you insult a kiwi you'll probably end up getting pissed together.
Your Dad was in the battle of Cuba St? Overpaid, over-sexed and over here?

I think you're right with the Coates quote.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:43
tolerant1 (lefty kiwi, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:40
aurator () ID#255284:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It is precisely that more people are employed in the service industry that this next depression, when it bites, will make the 1930's look like a cakewalk. Do you really need to employ someone to walk your dog? Dispose of your diapers? Give you advice on your 401k? Employ a colour consultant?

Last depression, Do It Yourself, was all the rage. I wish I was better with my hands for what I see coming. Ever read Guirjeff? ( sp ) If you are able to fix anything from a toaster to an hydraulic jack, you'll never starve.

I am afraid that aurators, being storytellers, are not held in too high regard.

I'm going to dig out a couple of verses of Woody Guthrie's This Land Is My Land that were supressed in almost all recordings of it...

At one stage there was talk of it becoming the Merkan Anthem, instead you got the Star Spangled Banner. Is an anthem written by a lesbian, a lesbian anthem?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:38
Envy (@Aurator, Tol1) ID#219363:
T1 and Aurator: Thank you for my prize brother Tolerant1 and brother Aurator, I look forward to it! *big smile*. Aurator: Yes indeed, definitely one of the greatest contributions by any country to world culture, and the Aussie's can take all the credit. Where else on the planet could this have been born:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:29
lefty kiwi (Aurator) ID#32176:
Copyright © 1998 lefty kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
According to my father ( now deceased ) he lived in Wellington at the time the correct quote was go to the Basin Reserve and eat the grass
or so he told me .
Dad drove a cab in Wellington for many years , married my mother sporting a broken nose recieved in the Cuba Street war when the NZ returning Soldiers fought the Merkans to reclaim the Kiwi Wahines from the flashy Americans having R&R in godzone whilst Kiwis away fighting Adolf .

I will need to watch myself on this site everyone will think I hate the good ol USA . ( not while they are getting there Ass kicked at golf )

Yeah our politicians always lie to us ....but the recovery is coming .
Sell your house ( if you can ) and buy gold .

Do you know anything about the colloidal silver making machines you can buy for about $90 .... are they any good
We may need antibiotics if Saddam starts throwing anthrax around .

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:26
AUH20 (Bearx = Dogx) ID#253260:
Just read David Tice's Bear Market commentary for 12/12/98.

He brags that his fund BEARx only lost 2 pennies last week. Well as la te ( fricking ) da. He loses money in up markets . He loses money in down markets. He loses money in sideways markets.

Oh well, that is why I pay him his 3% MANAGEMENT fee. Until monday that is.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:21
Envy (Technology/Commodities) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've seen a number of parallels drawn between today and the 20's when commodity prices dropped and large numbers of people became unemployed, and have paid attention to the different sides of the discussion. I tend to agree that prices falling too fast is very bad for the US worker, but I wonder, do the service economy folks have a good point ? It takes less human effort to create food these days because of technology, same for mining, drilling, making steel, etc, it's much more automated and if the prices drop a lot, not nearly as many people are affected these days as were back in the 20's. In the 20's, lots of people were farmers, and if commodity prices dropped, people had a serious problem, a large number of people. Today, I mean, I hate to come across mean spirited, but, who cares ? Is it really that bad if steel drops off a cliff ? How much of the economy now depends on steel production ? It just seems to be simple math that a small percentage of the US economy depends on the production of basic commodities needed for life, that the system really can support a large number of people doing service jobs ( business, computers, art, science, etc ) because we don't all have to be out in the fields growing food for a small base of service oriented folks. I think these service economy folks might have a good point, maybe a fall in commodity prices really isn't that bad for the economy. Obviously, it's horrible for commodities producers and I don't want to imply that their pain isn't great, or that it's justified. The service economy folks might just have a good point, that point being that the last great deflation destroyed the economy because a large percentage of people depended on commodity prices, but that today that percentage is very small.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:12
aurator () ID#255284:
That's why we all should have one of those Mad Max machines they're selling in S Africa. You know, the Running-board roasters. Give the phrase eating on the run a whole new meaning.

Gidday mate. What about Treasury now 'fessing up to deficits where 3 months ago they could see only growth and minimal effects of Asian contagion. Have you been watching the price of cars plumett, dropping faster than whore's drawers. House prices seem to be ready to fall, but petrol {see how little the merkans pay for gas?} refuses to budge.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:03
lefty kiwi (Baruch Ha Shem) ID#32176:
Copyright © 1998 lefty kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Re Mountain top prophecy

I am a goldbug and perhaps you have to be a liitle bit loopy
to be a goldbug .
Accordingly I am interested in the wayout sites mentioned from time to time on Kitco .
The Mountain Phrophecy site was one of these as was Kairos .
Also the Rockefeller V Rothschild bit in the Times article posted earlier today ties in .
I have never had any conversations with God and think this lady is probably imagining this , However America is not averse to War when the economy is bad and the USA has many enemies so war is not unimaginable.

If all countries disbanded their Armed forces and stopped making weapons
war would not be possible .....but unfortunately that will never happen.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 15:02
Envy (@Nuggets) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If Ft. Knox is empty with not a bar or coin of gold to be found, I wouldn't worry, as long as you've got gold in your own little treasure chest somewhere. Go Gold.


Two people yesterday asked me about y2k. Is it going to be as bad as I've read ? one of them asked. The other asked by email, are these things on the net for real ? All I could really say was that it could be a bad day for playing trivial pursuit on-line, or it could end civilization as we knew it, but that I thought it would be somewhere in between. I like a good train wreck as much as the next guy, but I thought about that today as I tried to cook this turkey and hoped that I wasn't going to give myself food poisoning. If y2k were bad and we had to eat whatever we can find out in the woods, I'm sure to be one of the first to die.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 14:58
Hey Barry

Has your keyboard always been stuck on caps lock? Perhaps you should take it to a Doctor?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 14:55
aurator (Those who can't learn from history....ummm, what comes next?) ID#255284:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes, I am now studying the NZ Slump/Depression for the first time.

One further point, the unemployment rate in NZ got as high as 40% of all men. Women were not included in the statistics then, but as always, were strong in the unemployment rights movement. The comparative statistic in Merka seems to be 25% unemployed, is that right?

The NZ Labour Party had its roots in the 15 years of slump/depression. There were hunger riots, labour camps, forced relocation, especially of single men into camps. Crops were left to spoil in the fields, an inept Conservative Gobmint were blinded into inaction by the forces of the depression. Before the 1929 Crash NZ was already in a slump for about 5 years. This was as a result of plumetting primary produce commodity prices that the NZ economy depeded upon: wool, beef, butter and lamb. NZ scientists developed cool storage techniques to ensure our produce could sail clear around the world and arrive in London or Liverpool in good condition.

The immediate boon following the end of The Great War of 1914-18 was short-lived. The unemployed came from all walks of life. The labourer, the businessman, lawyers and teachers, manufacturers and landlords all found themselves on the bones of their arses.

Being unemployed became not a social stigma, but a disgrace on government. One PM, Gordon Coates, was reputed to have said to a hunger march arriving in Wellington Let them eat grass. It is doubtful whether Coates every said this, but the sentiment became a rallying call against insensitive politicians and the incumbent conservative political parties that had grown fat and lazy, and, as would be shown, had lost touch with the ordinary bloke.

The unemployed organised foodbanks, boot-repair shops, planted seeds and formed their own welfare organisations. This was the groundswell of public opinion in which the NZ Labour Party was born. Socialism, New Zealand style.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 14:39
nuggets (there is no gold left) ID#386129:
in FT.KNOX...think about it..everything that is near & dear to the american psyche, all that made the country that it is..has been enshrined in various historic national monuments & glitzy icons...from disneyland to to the space the museums...mericans are proud to spend $5

to que up & see their national treasures.The Brits have their crown jewels ..I find it totally out of character with the american 'got to be a buck in it' mentality, that the gov hasn't set up a pay-to-view-our national-wealth tourist spot at Fort Knox...maybe theres no gold to view

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 14:36

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 14:16
JP (How about the market now ?) ID#249232:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My appraisal of the stock market at the present time is as follows: Near term: Tax loss selling to continue until year end. In January 99, we could get a feeble rally but I don't expect it to last very long. Why ? The bear will get his way in the market place. By early 1999, the hoped for profits for the year 1998 just won't show up anywhere, and instead investors will read about losses in the companies they hold. The federal budget deficit will become known, ( which will not be bullish at all ) and a depression in Europe will mount. Right now, one is beginning. A trade war will be on by early 1999, and that will be bearish. No one profits from a foreign trade war. Cut throat prices should prevail , and unemployment should reach a higher level than at any time in 1998. I will not be surprise to see heavy European selling of securities on US markets. The US dollar received will be converted into gold backed currency such as the Swiss Franc. Long term: WE are in a primary bear market which is NOT worked off by any means. The primary trend downward with bear market rallies could last well into 2001-2002. How far down ? Of course, I don't know , but it should be a big decline. When will the price of gold start rising ? At some point in the future when the public reads that US officials want to relate our currency to gold and silver again, both gold and silver should enjoy a long, healthy demand at higher prices. I feel that this will come during a major depression. BY Q1-2 of 1999, you will begin to see what I meant by the beginning of a depression. Since the gold and silver problem must be the first one to be resolved ( to create stable US currency ) ,and because the gold market has a way of discounting events ahead of time, the gold move should start early in 1999 and should continue over the next few years. I feel that gold wil lead the way on the upside and silver will follow. The reason why silver should do it is because it has been sold down from $50 in 1980 to $4.80 today and we are in an area where any further drop will find buyers. In summary, in 1999, gold and silver shares will gain the full respect on investors ( I'm expecting good appreciation ) and will skyrocket in the years 2000-2002 as the depression hits all around in all business and in almost all kinds of stocks.. With deflation intensifying and political chaos rising, investors will begin to seek value and safety.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:48
Delphi (EB) ID#258142:
Copyright © 1998 Delphi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just found your yesterday’s message where you ask me to update Bollinger bands chart for POG, I have posted on Thursday. Actually, not much has changed but you can find new version of it below. As known, when Bollinger bands are getting close to each other, it indicate that significant change in price is on it’s way. IMHO, we had such a signal recently and I suggested that it’s a good time to buy a straddle. From my observations ( not only for POG ) this indicator can miss a price move, but when it is signaling, it is in most cases correct.

I also placed a zoom-in for last couple of days in right top part of the image. I think, that last Thursday signal is clear visible there. Minimum distance between bands was in Thursday. Circles and arrows for previous signals on chart I draw manually, so they may look a bit different.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:35
tolerant1 (The Priest, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...impeachment eh...good grief I hope they) ID#20359:
get rid of Clintler...and I totally disagree with the media propaganda that removing this white trash ( and a traitor in my opinion ) will cause the country to crash...when you throw out the garbage your house does not fall down but the air sure smells cleaner...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:31
Donald (Average Daily Gold Price) ID#26793:
There have been 6048 trading days for gold since it became legal for U.S. citizens to own it on January 1, 1975. The average daily closing price since then was $348.06 through yesterday.

Imrahil: tell me more about the chart you are looking for, I might be able to e.mail a .BMP to you. Kitco does not have .BMP on the list of formats handled.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:25
THE Priest (Comments on the Impeachment) ID#369333:
I don't see any comment son the impeachment process and the effective of Clinton has to leave his office

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:11
tolerant1 (I think it prudent to point out that Y2K starts in 1999...there are many items that will be) ID#20359:
showing up starting Jan 1, 1999...yup...uh huh...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:07
SDRer (Notice anything? {:-)) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BIS Survey Results-The brief results of the survey in April 1998 are as follows.

Foreign Exchange Activities: Total of Spot, Outright forwards and Foreign exchange swaps-average daily turnover in Foreign Exchange Market in Japan during April 1998 was $148.7 billion, 7.9% lower than in April 1995.

Foreign banks increased their share ( 48.6% to 56.9%. )

Derivatives Activities-Turnover of interest rate-related transactions by Japanese financial institutions has decreased by 17.8% since 1995, while that of foreign exchange-related contracts has grown by 26.5%. Foreign financial institutions operating in Japan have expanded their contracts by 70.1% for interest rate-related derivatives and 2.18-fold for foreign exchange-related derivatives.

Inter-dealer trades amounted to $23.8 billion, a decrease by 7.1% compared to 1995, while transactions with other counterparties increased to $18.3 billion, which translat4s to a 2.55-fold increase.

Domestic transactions were $11.5 billion, 11.7% higher than the previous survey, while cross-border transactions were $30.5 billion ( 36.1% increase ) .

JTF: re: Euro 'stronger' than dollar? Well, it certainly has more advantageous crosses, buys more gold per unit, etc. As to the Euro's 'replacement' currency? One strongly suspects that it would be gold. Or salt. Or barter. For the western world at any rate. One suspects the East will be on a gold standard. We wait and watch, yes? {:- )

Re: post about gold prices--my read, FWIW, is Y2K test failure or finsys this instance the y2K test failure would be
the lessor of two evils...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:06
MoReGoLd (@BGR PM - Closed-end Fund - Last traded C$9.10 !!!!! ) ID#348129:
This fund hold mainly SA Gold stocks I believe. GET THIS.....
As of Thursdays close the NAVPS was $13.79 and share price was $9.45, A 31.47% DISCOUNT!
This is insane, they should liquidate the fund, pay a special dividend of $4.79, and keep $9.00 for new PM investments. It makes no sense to continue such a fund if the market doesn't value it properly....
Any other ideas?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 13:05
EB (Nicko@CryininMYbeero) ID#187109:
OUCH!!!!!!! Those internationals are getting some fine breaks.........damn hard to beat this year. Let me know where to ship the wink. You best be completing that down under museum. Let's get together for a meeting of the minds. My museum is a beautiful one but I am just not getting the traffic I had hoped for. I guess gold is dead......nobody wants to see the barbarous relic.......... ( boring ) ...........the board of directors is getting antsy. We may have to close a couple of wings down. I told them they could as long as it wasn't the Cinema Wing and the cocktail lounge......these are essential to a good museum. Ya gotta have a good buzz before'n you look at gold these days ;- ) .......¡ohmy! kick those yankee golfers in the collective tails............ ( damn ) ............... ( pout ) ............. ( sniffle ) ..................... ( somnagun ) ........................... ( ohwell ) ...........


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:57
EB (where is StudioR?) ID#187109:
huh? Calling all Studios............... ( ! ) . I hope he isn't thrown outta the house on the curb with oil the way it is. Hey Studio! You can stay at my house for as long as you want! C'mon back dude! lick more Prez Cup wounds...... ( ouch )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:52
tolerant1 (Envy, Namaste' gulp and a puff to me so you can get your Captain Haddock prize...) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:51
tolerant1 (BillInOregon, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...glad to see you and yours are back safe and sound...) ID#20359:
as to the post...that's when I am in a good mood...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:49
Envy (Classic) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
money creation scheme ( strategy ? ) happens around this time of year. All over the United States store owners are printing money left and right, people will of course trade their dollars for this new money. The new money tends to be quite attractive, portable, can be traded, and has real value. It's usually denominated in dollars as well. Once the new money is accepted by the customer or potential customer in some cases, the money that was traded for it goes away, gone. This new money tends to have a time limit, and once that time limit is reached, the value of the new money drops to nothing. What is this new money ? If you haven't guessed already, they're called gift certificates, and they're quite popular around the holidays.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:40
BillinOregon (Tolerant1) ID#262242:
Re your 11:49 post. Why don't you give us your real feelings on fiat currancys? ( smile )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:37
Theme Investor ( creation) ID#372400:
After the Christmas spending is over, it appears that there could be a lot less 'money creation' ( spending ) going on here in the States. Y2K spending will help and offset some, but with the contraction going on in commodities and the recent rash of layoffs in many other industries, it's looking weaker here, as well as worldwide. Hope the stock markets don't fall !

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:28
Envy (Everyone) ID#219363:
creates money. You've done it if you have ever written a check. As soon as you put your name on the dotted line and hand it to the cashier, that's new money for a few days. There is money in the bank, and there is your check for a certain amount of money, but it's not the money. If you need proof, write a check when you have zero funds one time, they'll take it just the same ( I suggest you deposit funds quickly however since this is short term money creation ) . People also create money in other ways, just about any commitment you make on paper is money, because it can be traded.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:28
TYoung (PCM...CEF) ID#317193:
Central Fund Canada will never hedge the existing bullion. What I'm referencing is whether they lock in today's gold and silver prices for May and December. If they do not and prices rise they dilute existing shares; lower prices do the opposite. Place your bets.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:21
Envy (@Imrahil) ID#219363:
Credit card debt ends up as an asset-backed bond backed by receivables. That means that after it goes to servicing, someone securitizes a pool of the things and send them out to the pit, where you and I buy them. Since they aren't backed by much, we get paid a pretty good rate. So yes, if you're holding that scrap of paper and you think you've actually got money, then they've created money. If you think you're just holding a piece of paper backed by nothing, then no, they've failed to create money.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:18
tolerant1 (JTF, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...I say there is no gold in Fort ID#20359: was robbed...FDR what a guy...hidden...and then spirited away...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:15
JTF (Just a thought -- signing off for chores) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: What if the FED was so paranoid about inflation and keeping a lid on the US dollar that they pushed gold down too far, let the US dollar rise too much, triggering the world-wide deflationary process we see now? Now, probably too late, the FED is expanding the money supply. Certainly too late for many oil producers, including it seems Saudi Arabia.

I think we should not necessarily blame anyone for triggering the big deflationary event we are seeing, because our irrational wordwide emphasis on fiat currency and debt would lead to a financial collapse eventually anyway. And -- I haven't even mentioned the mess with derivatives.

I think the recent events just show how fragile our worldwide economic system really is. Just a little breath of air is needed to bring down a house of cards. And -- they are still falling -- in slow motion.

I was impressed by Aurator's comments about New Zealand being in a depression in 1925, years before the US debacle. Did Europe fall after SEAsia then too? Europe certainly did fall before the US.

History seems to be repeating itself. Perhaps the modern US equivalent of the 'Roaring Twenties' will be followed by the US equivalent of the 'Depressing 30's'. The US collapse could still happen in the next 12 months, or years from now. Regardless it is nearly certain to be happen before 2010-2015.

Any of you Americans figure how who much cash you will need to retire if your employer does not cover medical care when you leave your job? It is a sobering discovery.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:08
PCM (TYoung: reply re Central Fund Canada) ID#169332:
Copyright © 1998 PCM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree the value of the warrants for Central Fund Canada is difficult to estimate. I understand now how you included both warrants in your estimate.

You say it should be known next month whether they will hedge and lock in the price of gold and silver. I hadn't thought of that. As I understand it, the Fund must maintain 90% of net assets in gold and silver bullion of which 85% must be in physical form; and it's gold and silver holdings can't be loaned, subjected to options or otherwise encumbered. If learn they are getting into much hedging, I'll probably sell all my shares because they have no track record in hedging.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:07
Petronius (GOOOD NEWS!) ID#225236:
Copyright © 1998 Petronius/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1. IRS bought itself a new computer - the delivery will take only 10 to 15 years and it will cost only $35 billion.

The company that won the contract is Kitco's favorite: the CSC ( Computer Sciences Corp. ) , the industry's leader in using pregnant teenage welfare mothers on drugs to fix Y2K.

Government at its finest. They draw up a plan for a computer that they will have 15 years from now. Excellent.

2. UN is taking charge of the Y2K problem

It was a good enough problem on its own. With UN's help, probably the hand-held calculators will fail. Enjoy!

3. The computer business is running out of Prozac and Jolt isn't anywhere to be found either. One year old Intel motherboard already had over 10 BIOS updrades ( That is almost one upgrade a month ) .

Some of them included such oldies but goodies like support for the second IDE controller. No mentioning of Y2K. Standard industry practice - just do something in a hurry and ship it before the competitors do. Does not matter that it never worked. Y2K what is that?

GO Y2K!!!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:06
TYoung (Credit spreads on corporate bonds.....) ID#317193:
Anyone have a URL where I can find out if the credit spreads are, in fact, widening...again.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 12:00
Imrahil (A question and a favor) ID#423313:
A Favor: Would someone post a bitmap of the inverted gold curve to the Dow since 1991? My computer doesn't have the graphics power do that.

A Question: When a credit card company finances a consumer's purchase, what funds does it draw on to pay the merchant? What I want to know, does credit card purchasing increase the money supply?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:56
JTF (Vault gold tours) ID#254321:
tolerant1: Isn't it interesting that visitors can see the gold that the Bank of England holds for other countries, but visitors cannot see the gold at Fort Knox?

If there was no gold at Fort Knox, both Democratic and Republican leaders would want to keep this secret. Perhaps even they don't know.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:49
tolerant1 (I hope everyone pushing fiat currency anywhere on the globe dies...humanity would) ID#20359:
be far better off without them...a common currency exists as it has throughout history...its is called less...anything else is a lie and the death of freedom...the world over...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:49
JTF (Concession) ID#254321:
SDRer: There is one item that could make a big difference between the Europeans and the Americans in terms of their economic strength. And that is-- gold. Perhaps we have nothing ( or virtually nothing ) in Fort Knox, and the BIS knows. They would then grudgingly offer tentative support to the EURO, with the understanding that the European debt problems were being resolved in a rational fashion. Perhaps the discrpancies you note are due to the influence of the BIS.

I still suspect that there is another gold-backed currency in the wings.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:39
JTF (Who in Europe would profit if the EURO falters?) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer: Perhaps we need to think like an entreprenuer. If there is a backup to the EURO, who would sponsor it, and how would it be implemented? If the group working on this plays their cards, they might gain control over the entire European financial system. Just step in when the European leaders realize they are nearly bankrupt, and offer to bail them out -- for a price.

I'm being a little cynical this AM -- but I would guess that the EURO backup currency will only surface after big time losses are evident. I wonder how the Rothschilds would do it. The group that is working on the 'backup' to the EURO could argue that they were being ignored anyway, so they were justified in waiting until the politicians behind the EURO realize the EURO is a failure.

The first attempt at a single European currency was nearly 500 years ago -- and it was a complete failure. As I recall, there was a second attempt ( failed ) , and then this one. So -- there must be a backup in the wings.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:34
TYoung (SDRer...strange things....) ID#317193:
Sir, that is what you are looking for in your efforts. All should be equal if the US$ IS the world reserve currency. The further the deviation, the more the confirmation.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:34
Dabchick (Carmack.......Your 10:30 today) ID#258195:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I started the Dabchick Gold Index in 1982 because that year the POG settled down a bit after the excesses of 79-81.
The several current Buy signals have nearby time - frames basis March and August this year which generated Buy signals showing the Gold Index at a higher level than now up to the end of 1999.
Longer-term Buy signals have been generated in recent years which show Dabchick Gold Index higher in the year 2003 than it is now. The Index doesn't say what will happen to the POG in fiat US Dollars. But if those who believe the US$ will fall soon are correct, then the POG in US Dollars would of course go up more than my Index percentage-wise.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:30
JTF (US/IMF vs BIS/EURO alignment?) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer: Do you have anything to substantiate that? As far as I can tell -- with the EURO reducing rates, the roll over of the European portion of the 1.5 trillion of SEAsian debt into EURO bonds, Germany showing willingness to let the IMF sell their gold -- the BIS and the European ECU members would not see eye-to-eye.

I think the sudden surge in the Swiss Franc is due in part to WJC's problems, but also due to the anxiety of the Germans who are afraid that their currency will be weakened by the weaker EURO members.

I find it had to believe that the EURO is any stronger than the US dollar. I think a more likely scenario is that the BIS is working behind the scenes with a second european gold-based currency -- a backup of some kind to the EURO -- to be unveiled if the 'official' EURO falters. I strongly suspect that the Bank of England is involved in this 'backup' currency, although the recessionary problems in England may throw a big wrench in this.

Interesting times -- puzzles within puzzles.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:28
Imrahil (My piddling 2 cents to justify my Kitco existence...) ID#423313:
Copyright © 1998 Imrahil/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Does anyone see a disconnect between the first two articles and the last?
Or am I imagining things?

Coke Says Profit Will Nose-Dive
Overseas Economic Problems Blamed
By Martha M. Hamilton
Coca-Cola Co. sent a shudder through Wall Street yesterday when it
unexpectedly warned that economic turmoil overseas would send its
fourth-quarter earnings tumbling about 30 percent.

Japan May Take Over Major Bank
By Sandra Sugawara
TOKYO, Dec. 11—The Japanese news media reported today that
authorities are preparing to nationalize the financially ailing Nippon Credit Bank, a major bank here.

The American Stock Exchange reported that a regular membership sold
for a record $550,000, up from the previous high of $500,000 set Nov. 4.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 11:01
tolerant1 (Donald, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...pawn shops eh...when the time is right invest here...yup...) ID#20359:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:50
Donald (15 million Americans will borrow from pawnshops this year.) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:42
Donald (Farm income expected to drop 13% this year) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:30
Carmack (Dabchick---Au index) ID#277224:
Good information.Thanks.Several questions 1 ) Is there any
particular significance to using Jan 1982 as the basis year?
2 ) Time frame for the several buy signals that have already
been generated in the 66-70 range?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:27
Aldebaran (all dec99 calls) ID#256365:
fell on dec 11 from their dec 10 settelments. Except the 390 call
comex options settelments at nymex website

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:23
Theme Investor ( yrend gold stocks....) ID#372400:
How about ALTA.....18 straight quarters of profit, and production beginning to increase. Price at 1 1/ at 1 3/8.
Course, eventually we need the POG to go up. ha....

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:19
Aldebaran (rhody an idea for you!! please all read) ID#256365:
for months now, I have been planning to do an experiment the next time I ate at a resturant. But my wife are in squirell mode storeing our nuts for winter and we havn't eaten out in a while.

I wanted to offer the waitress a tip of either $5 or 1oz silver round.

She could have either, and I would verify what the shiny thing was but not its value. I would tell her after her choice the value, but the game would be for keeps. alas I have not had the chance to do this.

Has anyone else tried anything like this or rhody's experiment.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:14
SDRer (Some rather strange things happening…) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Conversion Table: XAU to XEU ( Interbank rate ) Time period: 12/11/98 to 12/12/98. Daily averages: 12/11/1998 249.490 12/12/1998 249.490 Average ( 2 days ) : 249.49000 High: 249.49000 Low: 249.49000

Conversion Table: XAU to USD ( Interbank rate ) Time period: 12/11/98 to 12/12/98. Daily averages: 12/11/1998 293.70 12/12/1998 293.70 Average ( 2 days ) : 293.70000 High: 293.80000 Low: 293.55000

And, as for the London fix---no PM fix on Friday [not rec'd at this site at any rate]
Latest London Bullion Fixings
Gold AM Fixing ( 11 Dec 1998 ) : 176.418 Pounds Sterling
Gold AM Fixing ( 11 Dec 1998 ) : 294.300 US Dollars
Gold PM Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 176.653 Pounds Sterling
Gold PM Fixing ( 10 Dec 1998 ) : 293.950 US Dollars
Silver Fixing ( 11 Dec 1998 ) : 2.8935 Pounds Sterling
Silver Fixing ( 11 Dec 1998 ) : 4.8350 US Dollars

Yet, the IMF offered a Friday list very promptly-which is unusual…
XAU Gold Ounces | 206.939| 0.00483234
XPT Platinum Ounces| 247.797| 0.00403556
XAG Silver Ounces| 3.37628|0.296184

( 3 ) 1.00 XAU Gold Ounces = 243.997 XEU EMCF European Currency Units
Currency Converter™ Results
Now featuring global rates updated continuously.
Rates as of 1998.12.12 05:09:54 GMT.
1.00 XAU Gold Ounces = 290.600 USD United States Dollars

The USF/IMF v BIS/Europe battle fully joined? Or what? A European gold price in XEU & USD and a USG gold price in XEU and USD

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:13
Aldebaran (dec99 call 390 ) ID#256365:
dec99c390 expdate settle vol high low

fri thur

OG1299C390 11/12/1999 .70 .70 595 .80 .70

Gold crashs hard and the call option for way out their in not possible land dosn't change in price! And volume is up a bit over past week.

This option has been droping by a dime whenever gold closes down much at all, and it goes up a dime if gold closes up much at all over the previous day.

This mean anything? People trying to bail out made the volume high?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:08
Dabchick (Valuing Gold independent of fiat currencies) ID#258195:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here are the Dabchick Gold Index figures ( calculated from the London Bullion Market figures as supplied to the F.T. by N.M.Rothschild ) for the past week. All figures refer to the London close.
These figures are intended to show changes in the True Value of Gold relative to its value in January 1982. Because these values are independent of debased fiat paper currencies, they are also independent of the inflation caused to all other prices by governments that indulge in currency debasement.
Date--- | Close | High | Low |
07 Dec | 69.29 | 69.81 | 69.29 |
08 Dec | 69.10 | 69.23 | 68.97 |
09 Dec | 68.59 | 68.79 | 68.42 |
10 Dec | 68.44 | 68.67 | 68.30 |
11 Dec | 67.36 | 68.42 | 67.31 |
( Basis : Jan 1982 = 100 )

NB The Index dropped back below the 68 - 70 trading range on Friday. This is bearish for gold and trying to see the similarity of the previous few weeks' bottoming action with the base of Aug-Sep 1992 now requires a lot of imagination.
However, on the plus side, if this Index could fall quickly to near the 66.00 level and then turn back up above 66.60, it would generate a further Buy signal. This would re-inforce the several Buys that have already been generated in the 66 - 70 range.We live in hope.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:07
Dabchick (Friday's Gold & Silver Lease Rates and Weekly Summary) ID#258195:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For Friday 11th Dec calculated from data published in Today's FT.
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month

Mean GoldLR------4.25---------------4.12-------------3.79-----------------3.55
Gold Lease Rate---1.34---------------1.13-------------1.30-----------------1.45
( Change ) ----- ( - 0.09 ) ------- ( - 0.08 ) ------ ( - 0.06 ) ----------- ( - 0.06 )

Silver Lend Rate----4.00--------------3.20-------------2.35-----------------2.00
Silver Lease Rate---1.59--------------2.05--------------2.74-----------------3.00
( Change ) -------- ( - 0.10 ) -------- ( - 0.10 ) ------- ( - 0.05 ) ---------- ( 0.00 )
$LIBOR = BBA London rate fixed at 11am
Mean Gold Lending Rates and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild.
Lease Rate equals $LIBOR minus Lending Rate
( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day.

For comparison with $LIBOR, the FT rates for US Dollar CD's ( mid rates ) are as follows:
Period------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
US$ CD's-----------4.82-------------4.74---------------4.72---------------4.68

Weekly Summary of Gold and Silver Lease Rates
Monday 7th to Friday 11th Dec
Period ---- | Mon,,,,,,,Tues,,,,,,,Weds,,,,,,,Thurs,,,,,,,Fri
12-Month-| 1.59,,,,,,,1.52,,,,,,,,1.52,,,,,,,,,,1.51,,,,,,,,1.45
6-Month - | 1.41,,,,,,,1.39,,,,,,,,1.37,,,,,,,,,,1.36,,,,,,,,1.30
3-Month - | 1.21,,,,,,,1.22,,,,,,,,1.22,,,,,,,,,,1.21,,,,,,,,1.13
1-Month-- | 1.46,,,,,,,1.44,,,,,,,,1.46,,,,,,,,,,1.43,,,,,,,,1.34
Period --- | Mon,,,,,,,Tues,,,,,,,Weds,,,,,,,Thurs,,,,,,,Fri
12-Month| 2.80,,,,,,,2.90,,,,,,,,3.10,,,,,,,,,,3.00,,,,,,,,3.00
6-Month- | 2.59,,,,,,,2.64,,,,,,,,2.74,,,,,,,,,,2.79,,,,,,,,2.74
3-Month- | 1.85,,,,,,,1.95,,,,,,,,2.15,,,,,,,,,,2.15,,,,,,,,2.05
1-Month- | 1.49,,,,,,,1.54,,,,,,,,1.74,,,,,,,,,,1.69,,,,,,,,1.59

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:01
Aldebaran (sharefin (gcz8 /gcz9)) ID#256365:
Copyright © 1998 Aldebaran/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I don't know what I am supposed to see. What timeframe are you looking at? I see that the value of gcz8/gcz9 began to approach 1 at 14:00 on Dec 11 98 but what does that mean? That the value of gcz9 is decreasing faster than it should?

But I also did gcg9 /gcz9 and it shows the opposite, that gcz9 is increasing in value faster than gcg9. But if I zoom in to 10 min it shows the same, that gcz9 is decreasing relative to gcg9.

I'm too dense to understand, I can handle the math, but the conclusions escape me. Why should the farther contract be becoming cheaper unless the distant price was more predictable than the near price? uh oh...

Maybe I better wait to hear your point before I go chaseing after this on my own.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 10:00
alrea (year end steals) ID#200274:
Would anyone be willing to post their favorite year end picks of the sold off gold miners? I think Battle Mountain and Newmont are the obvious ones, especially with BMG maybe not hedging like some. While ECO is hedging too much, they are a favorite of the masses, when panics occur. They are cheap and liquid. They move when gold does. Others that look like good buys are juniors Dayton ( .25 ) , Caledonia ( .06 ) , United Keno Hill, and even Vista. After years of watching, NOW seems to be the best buying opportunity recently, maybe ever.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 09:45
Crystal Ball (She kinda took it like GOLD) ID#340392:
Copyright © 1998 Crystal Ball/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is a beauty. This story occurred on Melbourne radio last week.......

One of the FM stations has a competition where they ring someone up, ask them three personal questions, ring their spouse or partner, ask them the same three questions, if the answers are the same, the couple win a holiday to Bali.

Last week the competition went like this:

Presenter: Gidday its XXX-FM, do you want to play the game ?
Brian: Yeah, sure.
Presenter: O.K., Question 1 - When was the last time you had sex ?
Brian: Ohhh, maaaate. Ha Ha, well, about 8 o'clock this morning.
Presenter: And how long did it go for Brian ?
Brian: Orrrrr .... about 10 minutes.
Presenter: 10 minutes ? Good one. And where did you do it mate ?
Brian: Ohhhh maaaaate, I can't say that.
Presenter: There's a holiday to Bali at stake here Brian !
Brian: O.K. ... O.K. ... On the kitchen table.
Presenter: ( and others in the room - much laughter ) . Good one
Brian, now is it O.K. for us to call your wife ?
Brian: Yeah, alright.
Presenter: Hi Sharelle, how are you ?
Sharelle: Hi. Good thanks.
Presenter: ( Explains competition again ) We've got Brian on the other line, say hello.
Sharelle: Hi Brian.
Brian: Hi Sharelle.
Presenter: Now Sharelle, we're going to ask you the same three questions we asked Brian and if you give the same answers, you win a trip for two to Bali.
Brian: Just tell the truth Honey.
Sharelle: O.K.
Presenter: Sharelle, when was the last time you had sex ?
Sharelle: Oohhhh, noooooo. I can't say that on radio.
Brian: Sharelle, it doesn't matter. I've already told them.
Sharelle: O.K. ... About 8:00 this morning before Brian went to work.
Presenter: Good, nice start ! Next question.
How long did it go for Sharelle ?
Sharelle: ( giggling ) About 12, maybe 15 minutes.
Co-Presenter: That's close enough ... Brian was just being a gentleman.
Presenter: O.K. Sharelle, final question. Where did you do it ?
Sharelle: Oh no I can't say that. My mum could be listening. No way, no.
Presenter: There's a trip to Bali on the line here.
Brian: Sharelle, I've already told them so it doesn't matter anyway .... just tell em.
Sharelle: Ohhhh .... alright .... Up the ass!

Radio Silence


Presenter: Sorry if anyone was offended before, we're going live here, and sometimes these things happen. We've given Brian and Sharelle the holiday. Now we'll take a music break.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 09:36
rhody (@ all: I went to lunch with staff on Friday, and had) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
nothing but a five dollar bill and large bills to pay a 10 dollar
tab. So I threw in the five, and a Canadian silver dollar and
sat back to observe the reaction. One chap saw the coin and
leaning forward to retrieve it says, What the heck is this?
I answer as he looks at it, That it is a 1964 silver dollar.
Another chap pipes in with, You shouldn't be spending those
for things like this. This guy proceeds to lend me the needed
five, and I salvage my coin.

I have heard many complaints on this Forum that the general public
no longer considers gold and silver to be money, or that silver
is not worth very much. I hope you found my experience
interesting. I did.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 09:31
Aldebaran (tomo (turkeys?)) ID#256365:
Copyright © 1998 Aldebaran/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I didn't understand, do they raise turkeys there? If so, then yes turkeys do excite me. My familly eats a lot of turkey. We try to eat one a month. There are 4 of us, so when we roast a turkey, it's dinner for two nights and lunch for 3 or 4 days. We try to pay no more than $.50 a pound and we can only get them that cheap this time of year. We have a large freezer, and we try to get a years worth ( about 12-14 turkeys ) during the sales before Thanksgiving and Christmas. In fact, this afternoon both my wife and I will go to the store. They have turkeys on sale but the limit is one. So each of us will buy one. Turkey is our favorite meat. We get the very biggest we can, as the bones only seem to get so big, and the differnce between a 20 lb turky and a 22 lb turkey is 2lbs of meat.

I hope you ment that you raise turkeys for food in that area and not pets or something.

Oh, and when we roast them we like them to turn the color of gold.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 09:14
Gollum (Forward sales) ID#43349:
Be it gold or be it hogs, when big producers engage in forward sales it means that production contiues even when prices drop.

This crashes the prices, and kills the little unhedged producers.

But it means the big producers survive.

To play their games another day.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 09:09
Gollum (@panda) ID#43349:
Maybe here?

Or here?

A crash is a crash is a crash, and by any other name is just as ugly.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 09:02
Donald (Global bankers have loaned $104 billion to a smoke and mirrors mainland Chinese economy) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:59
panda (Daily CRB index...) ID#50149:
It's often been said that nothing goes down or up in a straight line. I beg to differ... Did the person who coined that phrase ever trade the metals? Something ugly this way comes........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:54
panda (Monthly CRB index...) ID#50149:
Geez, where have we seen this before..........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:53
Donald (Credit rules need to be loosened to save farmers caught in deflation crisis) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:33
Donald (@Carl, Rhody, Sharefin) ID#26793:
Copyright © 1998 Donald/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There is an even greater message hidden in that story about hog prices at 9 cents a pound. The situation is much worse.

Suppose you sold hogs at 9c in 1941 and decided to buy an ounce of gold. You needed 389 lbs of hog to do the deal at $35 per ounce. Today if you want to buy an ounce of gold you need 3222 lbs. of hogs to buy an ounce at $290!

Inflation has masked reality to such an extent that no one can trust any calculation or price unless it is converted to ounces of gold. Does anyone know the price of hogs in January 1980? Gold works in both deflations and inflations.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:32
lefty kiwi (from Mountain Top Prophecy site) ID#32176:
Copyright © 1998 lefty kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
These are the people who were predicting war on 12th Dec to start at 1.30pm . But have changed that date now .

A Message For You
Emergency update

Dec 09,1998


From both abroad and here in the USA, Our Lord’s vigilant ones have been watching, reading, and copying and sending mail this way. Most disturbing of late is NORTH KOREA’S THREAT TO BLOW UP THE USA if we proceed in the inspection of their weapon’s facilities. Clinton is working to get support from Japan and South Korea, but they want no part of a war with North Korea. After all, they are also on the hit list. Today, a Dear Brother sent an article explaining that Korea wants to extort 300 million from the USA for this inspection. Why should Clinton mind? He and his secret government have been providing them missile money for years.


Child, do not think that North Korea is threatening to blow up your country unaided. It has the backing of China, Russia and other countries; and they have been planning this trap for a long time. Step into this trap and it is curtains for the USA.

My Lord, will we step into this trap?

My Child, Clinton stands with his foot in the trap. See?

Yes, My Lord, but it has not clamped down as he does not have his full weight on it. This is a large bear trap, and on the trap are the words, Russian Bear.

If Clinton attacks North Korea militarily now, you can expect war in the USA before years end.

Before year’s end?

Yes, My Child.

But, did we not get a reprieve from this war?

Yes, Child, from the one, which would have come about through Iraq, and others; but do you see how they hop from hither to yon, using first this one and then that one as pawns to start a war with you? If you have your troops scattered all over the world, you cannot defend yourselves if attacked. Do you see the strategy?

Yes, My Lord, it is like someone crying wolf. A naïve one hears the cry and goes to check, but does not see the band of thieves lurking in the bushes. As this one rushes in without thinking, the thieves pounce and devour. We are naïve to think we can win in this and the thieves are ready to pounce, taking us unawares.

My Child, it is not a time to be naïve or to rush headlong into anything. You will all be sorry.

So, My Lord, I need to warn others to fast and pray mightily.

Yes, My Little One, for times are very perilous.

My Lord, please help us. Please Beloved Father Jehovah, have mercy on us. My Father, we as a nation go as a ship without a rudder as we have been overtaken by pirates, who are pushing us to destruction upon the rocks of worldwide communism. My Father in Heaven, raise up mighty men and women of God, who are will take a stand against this evil and will be as lightening rods for your power and truth. Precious Father, I am begging you for this here in the USA and around the world; that we find one another, so that our voices can be as one in mighty service and worship of You, Our Father, Our God! Have mercy, mercy, mercy upon us, as we are powerless without You.

Child, your prayers are heard. Now, let us resume with their plans. As you know, Little One, their plans have been for some time to hit you during your Christmas season; and their plans have not changed. They have only changed their plan of attack.

My Lord, I thought surely we would have a Christmas without threat of war.

Child, remember that every day of peace is a gift from Your Father. The Book of Life of the Gentiles, as seen by Dumutri Duduman is full. This is one reason he came to you. He knows it is full. Many believe what he was shown, Child, but few believe what you have been shown. Many pick apart these prophecies and take what suits them, throwing away the rest. Most disregard these prophecies because of the idea of reincarnation, but the very idea was brought to your mind by Me, Child, that you might seek understanding through Me. Remember that your Father is pouring out a rain of His Spirit, which will bring great truths for those, who seek. But, most are comfortable and will not change until they are faced with great adversity.

My Lord, I can hear some of the people complaining right now, ’first, you see war, then no war, then war, then no war. What is the deal?’

Child, the deal is that you are on borrowed time. Every day of peace is a gift from your Father. Some have continued to fast and pray, but most have seen that the threat of war has diminished and they have gone back to sleep.

My Lord, I see this.

Understand Child, that each day of peace is a gift from your Father and just because you are given one does not mean that you are guaranteed another. Don’t take things for granted. This war situation will not go away. It will keep coming up, and you will be invaded. It is only a matter of time. How long? Once again, this depends on your Father’s mercy; but, I can tell you, Child, that he is very angry with the fence sitters. He is angry with the passive, the pornographers, the atheists, the pushy homosexuals and other sexual deviants, and all, who love darkness. You, as a nation, are asleep and 99.9% in the USA do not know about North Korea’s threat to blow up the USA. Your foreign-owned and Jewish press will not let you know the truth.

You said, ‘Jewish.’

Oh, I said it, Child. Within certain segments of the Jewish community, there is a strong hate for all Christians. They would like to see all of you fall of the face of the Earth.

Some will say that this message is anti-Semitic.

They will say as they will, Child; but in your press there is a great move to stifle all truth, to cause any and all to see black as white and white as black. Many Jews with great wealth, and driven by intense greed to own an control all of you, have worked over time in your press to paint themselves in a good light, and to hide their control of you. My Children, it is time to wake up to the fact that certain Jews wish to control the world; as they control a lot of its wealth. This is a secret only to those of you, who are asleep. Many of them want to control the USA and many do, while the people sleep.

Child, do you see the sadness of what has happened to you as a nation? You were created as a nation under God, with a government by and for the people, but it has become a government to oppress and control the people and to run out God. To this end, more and more powerful money mongers vie for their agenda in controlling you.

You must not forget about this rogue Jewish population, which is Luciferian to the core. The same kind hung me from the cross. Why? To suppress the truth, and to control the masses through religiosity, which was and is big business. These rogue Jews have worked very hard to garner the support of the American people for their causes. Mind My word, Child, I am not referring to the masses of the Jewish people; they are caught up in religiosity and do not know anything more. But, these same factions, who control you, want to make it a crime for Christians to try to convert Jews. Why? Because they hate you. Hear me, Child, the power-hungry, greedy Jews hate those, who love Me.

My Lord, what a mess!

Yes, My Child, and you are becoming prisoners more and more every day. But, listen to Me, Child, if you step into this bear trap in North Korea, you will have war in the USA before year’s end. Stay out of this trap! Know it is a trap and stay out!

I am Jesus. Yea, Jehovah Most High God of Earth.

As dictated and recorded this 9th day of December 1998.
Linda Newkirk

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:20
Speed (Mexican Banking following Japan's lead) ID#29048:

Mexican parties reach breakthrough on bank bailout plan

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:08
Carl (@Sharefin) ID#341189:
You are blessed to have your father's presence and wisdom. My father would be 104 if he were still with us, but I am blessed with what he taught me and often feel his presence and reactions to the events of our time.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 08:08
TYoung (PCM...Central Fund Canada...) ID#317193:
Copyright © 1998 TYoung/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have not included any value for the warrant one obtains in May if the first warrant is exercised because I see that as part of the value of the first warrant. I don't think you missed anything. It is attemping to price the market value of the warrant that is the interesting and difficult part. If one really thinks gold and silver will rise in the first five months of '99 then it is not a difficult decision.

Another interesting question is whether CEF will hedge and lock in the price of gold and silver for May and December. This should be known this month.

Being able to buy shares at $3.50 is like buying gold and silver at around 10% under market with no premium or storage costs....what's wrong with this picture? If gold and silver ever rise one will not get rich but at least one will preserve capital and gain some more.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:58
tomo (aldebaran) ID#372214:
remember what you wish for..........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:55
tomo (aldebaran) ID#372214:
so turkeys do not exite you .................

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:52
sharefin (Carl) ID#284255:
My dad watches this forum over my shoulder,
And he's over 85.
His thoughts on what's reported here,
Remind him of the 30's
The sugar-bag years....
$35 for a pig & $25 for a pizza.
$1 a calf... 20 at a time...
Where's the sense...

gcz8 /gcz9
Or rejoin the urls.
Something happened then....

Pulsations within the markets

Peaked out and about faced?
Just like BC
So went Rome....

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:50
TYoung (WSJ....Japan...the FUN is just begining....) ID#317193:
Copyright © 1998 TYoung/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Japan Prepares to Nationalize
Ailing Nippon Credit Bank
Dow Jones Newswires

TOKYO -- The Japanese government prepared Saturday to nationalize debt-ridden Nippon Credit Bank in order to prevent a collapse that could shake the banking system.

The government formally advised Nippon Credit of its intention to begin nationalization procedures, and the bank will respond to the government by midday Sunday, Nippon Credit said in a statement. Prime Minister Keizo Obuchi has the power to order the bank nationalized if it doesn't accept the plan voluntarily.

Executives of Nippon Credit met to discuss the plan. According to sources in the bank, the meeting focused on ways to prevent the nationalization from damaging corporate and individual customers when business resumed on Monday. A Nippon Credit spokesman declined to say whether the bank would voluntarily accept nationalization.

Nippon Credit would be the second big Japanese bank to be nationalized in three months as Japan's financial crisis rips through corporate balance sheets. In October the government took over ailing Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan, the first nationalization of a Japanese bank since World War II.

The government plans to use public money to keep the nationalized banks operating and write off their bad debt while it seeks private sector buyers for the institutions' viable operations.

According to local media reports, a government inspection of the bank's books earlier this year found Nippon Credit was effectively insolvent and that it would be unable to regain financial health on its own.

Nippon Credit, established in 1957 to funnel funds to Japanese industry, had assets of more than 12 trillion yen ( $102 billion ) and more than 2,000 employees at the end of September. It forecast a parent pretax loss of 620 billion yen for the fiscal year through next March because of bad loan write-offs. Last month it disclosed about 3.2 trillion yen in bad or doubtful loans.

Over the past two years the bank has struggled through a string of attempts to restructure that have included its complete withdrawal from overseas operations, cuts in staff and salaries, and aid from the Bank of Japan and other commercial banks. It announced a broad alliance with Bankers Trust of the U.S. last year.

The final blow may have come on Wednesday when Chuo Trust & Banking Co. said it had decided against merging with Nippon Credit in its present form.

On Friday, Finance Minister Kiichi Miyazawa denied any knowledge of the plan to nationalize Nippon Credit, but said a framework under which the government may use up to 60 trillion yen to handle troubled banks, passed by parliament in October, would protect the financial system.

Nevertheless, analysts believe Nippon Credit is unlikely to be the last of Japan's big banks to fail to survive in its present form. At least one more major bank may have to be nationalized, while others may have to seek rescue mergers, said one securities company analyst.

Meanwhile, Nihon Keizai Shimbun Inc. said that Koa Fire & Marine Insurance Co. would replace Nippon Credit Bank in the Nikkei 500 stock index, effective Monday.


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:39
PCM (Lehman Brothers gold forecast and evaluation of Battle Mountain Gold (BMG)) ID#169332:
Copyright © 1998 PCM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

NEW YORK, Dec 11 ( Reuters ) - Lehman Brothers is initiating coverage of Battle Mountain
Gold Co. with a 3-Neutral rating, analyst Peter Ward said Friday.

The analyst said he estimates the company will have per-share losses of $0.16 in 1998 and
1999 and $0.21 in 2000, after losing $0.07 in 1997.

He said analysts' consensus estimates are for smaller losses -- $0.12 a share in 1998 and $0.06
in 1999.

Ward set a 12-month price target of $5 on Battle Mountainshares, noting their 52-week trading
range is $7.50 to $3.06.

The shares were down $0.25 to $4.375 in morning trade.

Ward said Battle Mountain is a low-cost producer of nearly one million ounces of gold per year.
At the present time, its production is concentrated at two key mines, in Canada and Bolivia.

He said Battle Mountain's earnings and cash flow are unprotected by a meaningful hedge
program and likely will remain so.

Similar to other North American gold majors, he continued, Battle Mountain's valuation seems
to have fully discounted a significant and sustainable rise in gold prices.

Therefore, we believe the risk/return ratio for this equity is unfavorable, he said.

Year-to-date, Ward said, gold stocks as a group have underperformed the S&P 500 by 31
percent following a 67 percent underperformance in 1997.

We believe 1999 will be another year of significant underperformance for the gold group, he
said. In our opinion, gold equities continue to discount a significant and sustainable rise in gold
prices as if it were inevitable. It isn't.

He concluded, We are maintaining our long-term average gold price forecast of $290/ounce,
the lowest on the street.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:32
tomo (aldebaran) ID#372214:
iam from TURKEY land in WATERFORD ont. not interested in gold per say i have tried everything in life so far the BEST was trainging thourobreds.........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:30
rhody (@ Donald: your 7:14, don't worry about deflation, it's) ID#411440:
different now than in '29. Consumers can rejoice, as
companies are laying off employees and thereby produceing more
goods cheaper with fewer employees leading to lower consumer
prices. This clown just described a classic 1930 style
deflationary spiral.

If layoffs continue, How many consumers are going to have a paycheck to buy anything?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:25
sharefin (Carl) ID#284255:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:24
Aldebaran (So tomo where ya from?) ID#256365:
Copyright © 1998 Aldebaran/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I take it you do the mining stocks? I'm not into that, don't know much about it. I got interested in gold because I thought the US economy would be trashed sometime soon. So I purchased some call options. And I began to collect a few coins, kreugerrands and genaric silver rounds. I recently ordered some Silver Eagles, and I think I might be hooked on the coin thing now. Next purchase will be 20 and 50 peso gold coins and maybe some more silver eagles if there are any left. A couple of months after that I think I want a golden eagle. ( that may read golden eagle ) the American gold bullion coin. I'm not really a coin collector yet, but I might be drifting that way.

so what part of the world are you from and how did you get interested in Gold?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:18
tomo (look you guys.) ID#372214:
eagle is hard to short there is no bid or ask.......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:16
Carl (Donald's 6:57- low hog prices) ID#341189:
Wow! Having been born on a farm during the depression, these farm prices sent chills down my spine. Cash is about to become a treasured commodity.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:14
Donald (Wholesale prices fell in 16 of the past 23 months; but don't worry about it.) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:13
tomo (eagle) ID#372214:
65% of my money is in eagle........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:07
Aldebaran (Sharefin thanks but it didn't work) ID#256365:
I will chart it myself tomorrow.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:07
tomo (eagle) ID#372214:
i am fully invested in agnico eagle and barrick...........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 07:02
PCM (T.Young re Central Fund Canada query. Millennium song anyone?) ID#169332:
Copyright © 1998 PCM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

As I understand the Central Fund Canada ( CEF ) offering, exercising the Dec. 15th ‘98 right gets a share and one May ‘99 warrant. The exercise of the May ‘99 warrant ( Series 1 ) gets a share plus a November ‘99 warrant ( Series 2 ) to purchase a share. As the fund holds straight gold/silver bullion, the warrants approximate gold/silver calls for May and November ‘99. Your valuation of the May ‘99 warrant @.16 -- .20 ( based on NAV of CEF @ 3.84? ) seems to me a little low, because, as I read it, the exercise of the right, by December 15th ‘98, gets an option to buy, essentially, May ‘99 gold/silver bullion plus a November ‘99 call. How to figure a value on the right? One rough approach, which I haven't worked on, is to first project what the various prices of the gold and silver the fund holds may be worth in May and November ‘99, i.e. there are two calls ( piggyback warrants ) involved, As there is no obligation to purchase in May ‘99, and one can sell the Series 1 warrant, it becomes a new decision process after December 15th, if one exercises the right.. . Maybe I missed something in reading the prospectus?

Personally, I think it's a fair deal. I think Central Fund may have cooked up this rights offer, in part, to get publicity for precious metal investment and their fund. . They are also sponsoring a big Millennium song contest in Canada! Maybe precious metal dealers here in the States could take a lesson in creative advertising from the North.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 06:57
Donald (Cash hog prices at 57 year low, 9 cents a pound, not seen since 1941) ID#26793:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 06:52
sharefin (Questions in the galley?) ID#284255:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 06:32
sharefin ( poignant) ID#284255:
Denial is rife....and coffee danish is great fun..especially with young enquiring minds.
I to, have spoken to the COC with strange replies.
Funny, how if you know to much, you become a quack?

The fear some hope to profit from, well looks like a prophecy.
'Tis a funny world.

Now surely the US,,,, couldn't claim 750 billion
That's like admitiing to the fact...

Hasn't BC's nose grown redderrr.^o-o^

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 06:11
sharefin (Aldebaran) ID#284255:
Here it is and you'll heve to rejoin/resplice the url.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 05:36
tomo (warned) ID#372214:
you were warnd........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 05:35
tomo (ok) ID#372214:
i know you will never remember it is called GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 05:17
tomo (remember) ID#372214:
they are hooked for large...the only ones they can unload to is you JOE SIX PACK!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 05:12
tomo (remember) ID#372214:
they will try and fool you.... do not let that happen................

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 05:03
tomo (HEY YOU GUYS!!!!!!) ID#372214:
buy gold stocks when the funds are buying...seems they are loading now then sell before they do...... seems like a plan.......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:58
Copyright © 1998 BARUCH HA SHEM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:51
CPO@AU (sharefin @in the know ID#284255) ID#329186:
Copyright © 1998 CPO@AU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for replies.
Like you many times each week I get strange looks when brining up Y2K. I had hoped to raise the issue at the local Chamber of commerce.........wishfull thinking the response wow I feel much better having spoken to you

A glimmer of hope h..having coffe dannish overheard ( evesdropped ) a 10 or 11 year old talking to an Aunt/Uncle about various aspects of computers the conversation slipped to Y2K the young lad do you take it seriously? you bet I replied we was pleased at that.

The Aunt went on we are supposed to take our money out of the bank ?! but where do you put itI held uo a Maple leaf. and went on about sale prices etc.
She then remembered a relative who in 1987 was called back from retirement ( Barclays bank ) to help sort out OCT 87 he later confided that Gold had not behaved as it should and he could not think why..
I gave a brief explanation...and she said thank you that was usefull.

It would seem that Most are waiting for someone else to start the stampede like with food ..not before the prices rise..

good luck

off ou for my danish

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:27
tomo (gold eqity) ID#372214:
there seem to be a willingness to buy at this price..............

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:22
tomo (equity) ID#372214:
these things should of tanked a lot more than they did today............

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:15
tomo (maby i am wrong) ID#372214:
but some one is buying GOLD equities....

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:06
tomo (KITCOS) ID#372214:
DO NOT weaken now.......REALITY is about to strike........

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 04:01
tomo (HEY!!!!) ID#372214:
press the flesh...its here.......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:59
Aldebaran (Sharefin I can't see the url) ID#256365:
I often can't see the urls people post as IE5 for some reason cuts part off. All I got on your gcz8/gcz9 post for the url was
I went to your site, I go there often, but I don't know where to find this. Can you try to post the url again please?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:59
sharefin (CPO) ID#284255:
Even Those In The Know Fear Compliance Is Lacking

You know - I know - and many others here know...

But when the public wake up..........go gold...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:57
tomo (world) ID#372214:
what will the world think of the $us currency now......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:56
sharefin (Aurator - close to home...^o-o^) ID#284255:
NZ Public Sector Compliancy Worries

Who ya gonna call

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:54
sharefin (What happened here?) ID#284255:
Dec98 gold divided by Dec99 gold

Perhaps a perception change before the real thing?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:52
sharefin (CPO) ID#284255:
I guess they are a bit smarter. ( :- ) ) )

The US citizens only get $200 apiece.

But using your figures the UK citizens get $3000 apiece.

If the US was to print out $3000 apiece then they'd have to print $7,500 billion

Now that would be an admission that something was wrong....^o-o^

Houston come in - over and out?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:47
THC (To APH re KISS) ID#367411:
Copyright © 1998 THC/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Thank you for your response regarding the KISS account.

Looks like we are in setback mode again....perhaps you will get your entry of $4.40.....perhaps not? In either case, even if KISS is not activated I look forward to hearing your views on the price action......

I see what you mean about options.....the attraction for most is the perceived risk/reward ratio.....but that is with the way OTM options, where the odds of finishing in the money are extremely low.....even so, I may buy some OTM options Dec 99 as a Y2K hedge.....,

Thanks again,


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:46
tomo (and. ) ID#372214:
could be better next week......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:44
tomo (BOY!!!!) ID#372214:
not a bad day for gold stocks.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:40
aurator () ID#251181:
Printing cash for India? Now, there's an image to ponder.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:35
CPO@AU (aurator ( the money mix) ID#251181) ID#329186:
Copyright © 1998 CPO@AU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Electrons, yes that crosssed my mind but my perception has always been that the US is far and away the largest user of fact I thought cash in the us was only used as movy props ,a few bills on the restaurant table or drug deals, an exageration perhaps.
A couple of years ago I was most suprised at the cash to plastic ratio being higher,
supermarket tills full of cash ( folks over here get CASHBACK from supermarkets no charge as this reduces the cash on premisses and gets the cash into the supermarkets account quicker ) .
Even an attack on the £ v Euro would not be in cash ( some months back the BOE was the 1st CB to announce that there could be Problems with Y2k and runs on the Bank! )
Guess will have to thin on its very puzzling. ( also don't know when they will print it all up we are last rumoured to be printing up cash for india! )

take care
go gold & silver while the sale is still on


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:10
aurator (iconoclasts-R-US) ID#251181:

Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants,
today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
-Dave Barry

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 03:06
aurator (The money mix) ID#251181:
A good question. I wonder if the answer has anything to do with the comparative frequency of use of plastic, electrons and paper?
Is there a lot of cash £s used in daily commerce in Blighty? NZ is reckoned to have the highest number of ATM and Eftpos per capita in this sweet gold world. What about the US? How much trade is done in paper cf plastic debt cf electrons - direct transfer via phone or computer?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:55
CPO@AU (sharefin 12 dec 00:48 ID#284255) ID#329186:
your Global cash crisis waiting in the wings !
Usa ( already known ) to print US$ 50 billion
yet BOE to print £54.45 Billion ( we like odd nos ) ( US$146.billion )
With the UK is approx 20% of the US population. 3x for 80% less
any idea's as to why ?



Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:54
aurator (Are they going to turn the President into a peach?) ID#251181:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

As I understand it, the President is accused of not being able to
control his banana, and of trying to berry the truth, so they're gonna
peach his arse out of office. The Congress is trying to do so during
the currant session, but they're being slowed down by lawyers, who
keep raisin more questions. Did huckleberry Clinton touch Miss
Lewinsky's melons, or didn't he? Is Ken Starr a crusader, or just a
medlar? Was Monica a manipulative hag ( berry ) , or was she just a
sweetsop? The only thing everyone is sure about is that the whole
world is just plum tired of the whole damned thing. I personally
don't give a fig and quince now whenever I hear anything about it on
the news.

According to the Starr report, Monica at one time thought that the
President would leave his wife to be with her. But until he divorces
Mrs Clinton, the pear cantaloupe.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:35
Auric (crazytimes--Thanks For Posting Article) ID#257312:

Heh heh! People may start thinking Vronsky's site is too tame after reading the latest Time and Newsweek.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:34
Nick@C (@hijack roasters) ID#386245:
I'm gonna get me one of them!!! Next time I'm boxed in by two big trucks--BLAMMO!!!!

Respect is all I want!!

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:29
Jack (About time........Gunowners threaten counter-attack over lawsuits) ID#254288:

Can you imagine these damn city governments suing the gun manufacturers for being a central cause for the costs of urban violence. What next?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:22
crazytimes (aurator...) ID#344326:
Except that it would be well done on one side and rare on the other. Ok, that's enough offending posts from me. Sorry fellow Kitcoites, only trying to see a little humour in these crazytimes......

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:17
aurator (The Y2K Gourmet) ID#251181:
I'd've thought that these running-board roasters would be the ideal Y2K insurance. If you got no food and no electricity, just drive up alongside some 'food' and cook it, on the hoof, as it were.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:15
crazytimes (Article...) ID#344326:
Copyright © 1998 crazytimes/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Newsweek Magazine
December 14, 1998
By Michael Hirsch


( CNNA,12-10 ) --We are in a global financial crisis, suddenly announced the mainstream media outlets, in September of 1998.
That stunning announcement has since been given short shrift by major news outlets, considering what a huge impact such a crisis is bound to have.
And here at home, during this crucial season for retailers, we are lullabied by repeated mantra: The economy is good.

With 1998 having seen the most massive corporate layoffs of employees since 1993, now surpassing the 500,000 mark and sure to grow during the Holiday season, what kind of good economy is that?
With 1998 having seen 7 of the top 8 corporate mergers of all time, with a consequent accumulation of Capital into fewer hands, just who is the economy good for?
Beneath the surface, there are serious economic rumblings.
Financial titans are in a desperate end-game race: who will win, and exclusively control the wealth of the world?
The two most obvious financial titans are the House of Rockefeller and the House of Rothschild.
In a previous press release by the news service, we speculated that we are now witnessing an eruption in the ongoing Rockefeller vs. Rothschild war.
THE EUREKA DOCUMENT which thrust this awareness into many minds was an article in the current Newsweek magazine: The War Hits Home by Michael Hirsch; December 14, 1998.
That article leaked to a relatively limited audience, the name of ROCKEFELLER as having been a World War II collaborator with the Nazis.
The name of Rockefeller, besides being explicitly mention in Mr. Hirsh's story is also interwoven throuth the piece.
It lurks beneath the surface in several paragraphs.
For example: Mr Hirsh concludes his article by mentioning a connection between John Foster Dulles, the Sullivan & Cromwell law firm, and the Nazis.
Not explicitly stated, but readable between the lines, is the connection between Dulles, Sullivan & Cromwell, and the Rockefeller Foundation.
In his book, David: Report on a Rockefeller ( New York: Lyle Stuart, Inc., 1971 ) author William Hoffman spells it out: John Foster Dulles was a former head of the Rockefeller Foundation, and was associated with the law firm of Sullivan & Cromwell, a leading legal agent for all of the Rockefellers.
The newsweek article, by Mr. Hirsh, is a not-so-subtle blast against the name of Rockefeller. Get Rockefeller is written all over it.
And who exactly would want to get Rockefeller?
Does the name ROCHSCHILD ring a bell?
An article in the current TIME magazine ( Decembeer 14, 1998 ) gives its own slant on the unfolding story of corporate connections with Nazi Germany.
That article takes the position that lawsuits seeking reparations for Jewish survivors of the Holocaust somehow demean the sufferings of World War II-era victims, by tainting that memory with lucre.
A counter-blast by the Rockefellers? In the memory of millions of State-murdered Jews, let's forget about it?
This is a developing story.

PUZZLE PIECE #1: oN jULY 8, 1996, Amschel Rothschild, heir to the Rothschild banking fortune was found dead, in Paris. His death was officially called a suicide, but it is apparent that he was in fact murdered.
Amschel Rothschild was found to have been strangled with the cord of his bathrobe, with the other end attached to a towel rack.
But one of the French detectives at the scene gave a pull on the towel rack, and the towel rack came right off the wall.
In an article Aug. 5, 1996, which states definitely that Amschel Rothschild was murdered, according to well-placed European sources.

PUZZLE PIECE #2: Shortly after the murder of Amschel Rothschild, on July 17, 1996, TWA Flight 800 was shot down near Long Island Owning a controlling interest in TWA Airlines has been Chase Manhattan Bank, the Rockefeller Bank.
Did the Rockefellers still control TWA in 1996, when Flight 800 may have been, according to several reports, carrying billions of dollars of phony bearer bonds?
Reportedly, there were no duplicates for these bonds about to come due. Banks basing their lending practices on fractional reserve guidelines, 10% assets per 90% loans, and having these counterfeit bearer bonds as their supposed Capital base,would have been in big trouble when the bonds matured.
Whose banks were saved by the crash of TWA 800? Some Rothschild banks, perhaps?

PUZZLE PIECE #3: Collapsing Oil Prices. Kofi Annan, Secretary General of the United Nations, has several times intervened to help avert imminent military attacks on Iraq.
Primary banker to the U.N. has been the Chase Manhattan Bank, a Rockefeller bastion according to the Hirsch Newsweek article.
In his book William Hoffman states that Chase Manhattan employs a full-time envoy to the United Nations, for whom the Chase serves as banker . .

And the very land, in New York on which sits the U.N. building, was donated by the Rockefellers.
Recently, a huge mega-merger, has occurred between Exxon and Mobil, both of themRockefeller entities.
There is a glut of oil on the world market, and part of that glut is coming from Iraq.
Bombing Iraq would decrease the amount of oil available on the world market, and send oil prices higher.
But Rockefeller interests, for now, do not seem to mind the low oil prices, since their agent, Kofi Annan, has been acting to prevent a military attack on Iraq.
However, some major oil corporations, such as British Petroleum ( BP ) , might very much want oil prices to rise.
Not known at this point is what major oil corporations, if any, are controlled by Rothschild banking interests.
Known, however, is that Bill Clinton has defied the special relationship between Britain and the U.S., for example by inviting Gerry Adams, linked to the Irish Republican Army, to the White House.
Historically intertwined with Great Britain has been the House of Rothschild -- for example, the Rothschilds facilitated the acquisition of the Suez Canal, a vital British interest, by loaning the Crown 4 million pounds sterling in 1875.

PUZZLE PIECE #4: U.S. President Bill Clinton is currently in hot water, facing impeachment.
But who controls Clinton, Rothschilds or Rockefellers?
A good guess is that Bill Clinton is a Rockefeller stooge.
In his book, Clinton Confidential, George Carpozi, Jr. writes that the ultra-secret Bilderberg Group, whose membership prominently includes the name of David Rockefeller, annointed -- and programmed -- William Jefereson Blythe Clinton IV to be 42nd president of the United States.
Many have torn their hair, over the years, wondering how it is that Bill Clinton can have escaped srious scrutiny by the corporate news outlets.
Rockefeller protection may be the answer.
But the now-erupting Rockefeller/Rothschild feud, sparked by the acknowledged global financial crisis, seems to have helped fan the flames under William Jefferson Clinton.

Newsweek and TIME picked an opportune time to delve into the Rothschild/Rockefeller feud that goes back many, many years. But what does this all mean for the United States of America?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:11
John Disney (Its all true .. hijacker roasters) ID#24135:
for Steve in To ..
Yes .. they are also useful at picnics for toasting
marshmallos and weenies ..

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:06
tolerant1 (YO!...ENVY, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...send me your email address so you) ID#20359:
can recieve your Captain Haddock prize...

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:06
Auric (LOOK AT THIS!) ID#257312:

It's Rothschild vs Rockefeller in the Dec. 14 issues of Time and Newsweek! Maybe someone could post the article here.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:05
crazytimes (Savage.....) ID#344326:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:02
Savage (........SA car blasters........) ID#290202:
What about the kids standing alongside when Mommy inadvertently
steps on the wrong pedal while getting in or out? ( or chatting on the car phone... )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 02:01
Envy (Away ...) ID#219363:
To my warm and comfy bed to enjoy some reading. Hopefully sometime we can have a conversation about the Sovereign Individual, off-shore investing, Rand, and all sorts of other nifty things. I'd love to participate, but my eyes are heavy and my book awaits.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:59
Savage (LSteve:) ID#290202:

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:58
crazytimes (Atlas Shrugged...) ID#344326:
If I'm going to read that much, I'd rather take up with Marcel Proust's Remembrance of Things Past. My sense is that has even more to say about the motivations of people in society.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:55
Envy (@Aldebaran) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I'm very interested in the sciences as well. It's unfortunate that too much of the material I've been exposed to is mixed with so much speculation, held up as proof of the paranormal, etc, but that's what you get when you're a layman and you're getting it all second hand. I should have paid more attention in calculus and physics myself, but I was too busy writing code and trying to make project deadlines ( oh yeah, and goofing off at parties *grin* ) . I agree with you, it's really weird stuff, at least from what I've read. It sounds like spooky action at a distance is the rule and not the exception, that everything is linked fundamentally to everything else, and there are no seperate parts. I try to read as much as I can to keep up, but the pace of the world can make one dizzy, especially on the frontiers of science and technology. The Universe is indeed mysterious, and beautiful, I'm so glad it's more complex that we'll ever know.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:52
crazytimes (What if the powers that be....) ID#344326:
really do know that the launch of the EURO could sink the dollar and the US Equity Market? There is so little talk by the Talking Heads on TV about it. As we get closer to January, I am wondering more and more about the implications of the EURO launch. I'm surprised it's not being talked about here more also. Ok, so I do read ANOTHER ( he or she doesn't get talked about either, a shame in my opinion )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:51
Nick@C (Ahoy Mateys!!) ID#386245:
The invasion fleet has landed on the California coast. The National Wink Museum is now under siege!! Glass grinders have been seen on the ramparts, mixing glass with boiling oil. Arrrggghh, mateys. All to no avail. Tomorrow morning the battering rams shall be in place. The Wink Museum shall fall. Har Harr.

Èß to walk the plank!!! Yo ho ho and a bottle of beer..errr...rum!!

Amerikan golfers to be sent home by third class stowage.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:42
Aldebaran (I am concerned for Clintons safety) ID#256365:
Copyright © 1998 Aldebaran/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It seems apparent that the power brokers who made clinton what he is today have abandoned him. I wonder why? Could be that they know an economic collapse is unavoidable, and are happy to let him take the blame. But there was a report a while back of some young girl after jogging with him was filmed going with him into that little room? She was later identified as the daughter of some big wheel demoncrat? I wonder how important her daddy is and what he thought of all of that. And now we have bubba due to arrive in a war zone where neither the Isralies nor the Palistinians are all that happy with him. I was kinda looking forward to watching Clinton roast in the Senate, hopeing that some of the more important allegations might be examined. I hope the trip gets cancelled. I wanted to see which tie he wore to the trial.

Oh and on the offhand chance this is read by some secret service type, Tell me you didn't want to see which tie he wore to the Senate.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:41
crazytimes (Steve in TO....) ID#344326:
I like this part of your post....

Now, with the help of liquid petroleum gas, the chances of
a car-jacker making off with a vehicle have been
considerably reduced, supporters of the invention said.

Does anyone wonder how I choose my moniker?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:40
Nick@C (I have been blowing those ol' Deflation Blues...) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...for some time now. For those of you waiting for the coming deflation, you are too late. It is already here!! We are knee deep in deflation of 'stuff'. That includes gold, silver and other precious. It is hitting now at the petrol pump. Most oil producing countries ( Russia, Saudi Arabia etc. ) are in deep doo doo. When 195 cracked on the CRB I said 'Look out belooooow!!!'Nothing brilliant. The drover's dog could have told you that. Where it stops, nobody knows. Gold has held up amazingly well recently compared to other 'stuff'. If 280 doesn't hold, the coming crash may be of proportions the most pessimistic among us could not have imagined. The PTB ( Powers That Be ) have overplayed their hand, almost guaranteeing a greater conflagration.

Get out of debt.
Make defensive investments.
Prepare for 'any' eventuality.

Your loved ones depend on it.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:38
crazytimes (L Steve...) ID#344326:
I guess Bill Gates read Atlas Shrugged when he was younger. I never did finish Atlas Shrugged. I got the message fairly soon when I began to read it. I didn't feel like going through the last 1000 pages ( in very small print no less )

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:29
morbius (@Bill Buckler ) ID#35757:
Thanks for the link.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:17
LSteve (Savage....Atlas Shrugged in less 100 words) ID#263244:
Gee this is a tough one.

Women runs railroad. She buys new kind of steel that is stronger and cheaper than anything else. Everyone else thinks this will ruin the economy and is not fair. They pass laws to ruin their profitability. Then they develop new efficient motor and well I don't want to ruin the story.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:16
Steve in TO (John Disney- is this true?) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This gizmo sounds like it's a riot, truly a must-have:

South Africans are snapping up flame-throwers to stop car attacks,
Thieves get fiery hijack deterrent
by Sam Kiley in Johannesburg
Times of London

A JOHANNESBURG inventor is set to make millions from
frightened motorists with a flame-thrower that turns car
thieves and assailants to toast at the press of a hidden

Charles Fourie, a former lawyer, put the Blaster on the
market two weeks ago. Impressed by the device's ability to
send a jet of flame 10ft either side of the front doors of a
vehicle, people have been signing up in droves for a £360

By the end of February next year we will have fitted
hundreds, said Mr Fourie. We are getting orders from all
over the country, Cape Town, Durban, rural areas,
everywhere. So far, 25 have been fitted and hundreds
have been ordered.

In the first six months of this year more than 4,000 people
lost their cars to armed car-jackers in the Johannesburg
region. Many of them also lost their lives to robbers who
shoot the driver rather than drag him or her out of the
vehicle because so many South Africans cradle a pistol on
their knees to fight off criminals.

Now, with the help of liquid petroleum gas, the chances of
a car-jacker making off with a vehicle have been
considerably reduced, supporters of the invention said.

The system allows the car driver to fire dozens of blasts,
depending on the size of the gas bottle stored in the boot.
Two small pipes deliver the gas to a nozzle underneath the
car which sends a flame by using a hidden pedal on the
floor of the car.

The driver should raise his hands when he is confronted,
and then step on the gas, explained Mr Fourie. He said he
saw no necessity for a front nozzle for the system because
you can get a shot in, or run the car-jacker over, if he
approaches from the front.

The point is that they [robbers] like to be able to see what
you are doing with your hands. They can only do this when
they get close to the driver's window. That's when you get
him. He will be badly burnt, and probably permanently
blinded, added Mr Fourie.

The Blaster is legal in South Africa, according to the police.

Where a person's life is threatened or where property
would have been stolen even though life was not
threatened, obviously these actions would be justified, said
Superintendent David Walkley of the Johannesburg police.

Mr Fourie was stumped when asked how a car thief who
simply stole an unattended vehicle armed with a Blaster
could be arrested.

That's obviously a bit of a problem. But like a gun, you
cannot be held responsible for its use by irresponsible
people, he said.

The Blaster is certain to be a favourite Batman-type device
for the rich and famous, and gangsters who fear attack by
rivals or, indeed, who fear arrest. Asked if there was a
possibility that the Blaster could add a dangerous element
of fun for teenage joyriders, Mr Fourie was circumspect.

The jet only goes 2.5 yards out. They would not be able to
do much damage with that, he said.

In South Africa one citizen in 40 will die a violent death as
a result of car crashes or crime. Such statistics have
caused a huge growth in the security industry where
consultants such as Mr Fourie come up with increasingly
bizarre methods of deterrent. One favourite trick to protect
cars in Johannesburg is to leave a box on the back seat
marked live snakes in transit.

Home owners, already caged behind metal bars and linked
to armed response teams by panic buttons, are now advised
to adopt a bantam cock, which is a source of great muti
( magical power ) , and buy a bull terrier as they have a
reputation for latching on to a robber's crotch and never
letting go.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:10
Aldebaran (Envy (Universe) life?) ID#256365:
Copyright © 1998 Aldebaran/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You should read about some of the stuff being thought about in quantum physics. I read some of the books and articles that are published in lay terms. I understand some calc, but the physics people use math more advanced than that, often something called tensor equations. I have wanted to know more about that field of mathmatics, but I am 30 and even my knowledge of calculus has begun to fade. Still when they can explain stuff in lay terms there is tremendous exciting potential in what they talk about.

Theoretical physics is on the verge of no longer being a science. In the past they built particle accelerators to verify or discard their theories. But they can only build atom smashers so big, and after the next size up from the current, it is unlikely they will be able to advance subatomic physics based on the experimental method. These accelorators are not the only tools physicists have, but they are apparently the big hammers of the trade.

This is a shame really as quantum physics has uncovered some things that are really really interesting. Weirder than anything you might read from the alternative science people or the paranormal people.

There are bits of stuff that are attracted to each other slightly, but when they are drawn away from each other the force increases. Then there is the question of the nature of what stuff really is. And there are particles that apparently are in more than one place at the same time. And there is something once called spooky action at a distance which by the older rules of physics just couldn't possibly be, and yet...

It all gets very philosophical and well it's fun to speculate.

The universe is not at all what it seems to be, or at least it seems that way.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:05
Mole (re:economics in one lesson) ID#34883:
The Broken Window is a 'zero sum game'. The Baker's new suit would of been a 'positive sum game', and of course, purchased with 1 ounce of gold.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 01:03
Selby (Bill Buckler (Economics In One Lesson) ) ID#286230:
What we need to know is how does a broken window differ in its effects from a MacBurger. Off to bed I have a big brunch tomorrow.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:58
sharefin (Email chatter) ID#284255:
 On today's Chuck Harter radio show, Terry Reed, former CIA employee and author, was the guest. He had a couple of interesting observations.

First, he said he had dropped by his bank Monday and found his banker poring over a new directive from the FDIC mandating the bank to install a generator to insure ATM operation in the event of a power failure.  Usual threat of losing their 'insurance' if they don't comply. This will apparently be in the next 'Banking Package' to be delivered to the public to facilitate confidence in banks.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:55
Bill Buckler (Economics In One Lesson) ID#256381:
This is Henry Hazlitt's most famous book, and one of the clearest, most concise introductions to rational economics ( note: NOT economic rationalism ) ever written.

Here's a link to a reprint of the Broken Window chapter from Laissez Faire books

The whole book is WELL worth reading.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:48
Savage (LSteve:.....) ID#290202:
Can you sum up Atlas Shrugged in 100 words or less?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:48
sharefin (Microsoft - not so compliant after all ) ID#284255:

By January 1st 2000, Microsoft will disclose additional areas of non compliance in all of its current operating systems. Enterprises mandated to maximise compliance should hold off applying any patches until at least 2Q99.

The bug spawns butterfly of the futures

Global cash crisis waiting in the wings

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:47
Savage (LSteve:.....) ID#290202:
Can you sum up Atlas Shrugged in 100 words or less?

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:40
CompGeek (FWIW countdown to Y2k stands at 554,400 minutes) ID#343259:
tick, tock, tick, tock,,,

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:37
Envy (Universe) ID#219363:
Maybe there is life out there somewhere. If there is, I hope we find out about it during my lifetime, even if it is just some bug floating around under the ice on Europa, or some microbe buried in the rocks of Mars. I'd like to believe that there was life all over the place, created whenever the conditions were right. If there are any smart folks out there, I hope too that they've figured out how to turn their plants into alchohol. Also, if they're using a four digit date, I hope they don't make the mistake of having their computers use only the last two digits.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:23
Mole () ID#34883:
In my previous post I think I just called into question the Austrian Business cycle... shucks, another words, for the cycle to come full circle is not absolute, ( innovation & discovery could plausibly delay the cycle indefinitely ) although... with deflation indicators and a failed attempt to roll over the debt and inflate out of the falling prices, indicates the cycle culminating, caused by government banking and consequent malinvestment/misdirection of capital maxing out the productive resources of the market, which in turn demand a new price catallaxy.

Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:23
LSteve (Erle......Rand) ID#263244:
Erle; i don't know about Rand as a cultist, never delved into her personal life. Wasn't my business. But her book, Altas Shrugged changed my entire perspective on how I think of things. That book opened my eyes. Everybody, if you haven't read Atlas Shrugged go out and buy it tommorrow and read it. Just do it!! : )


Date: Sat Dec 12 1998 00:03
Envy (@Silas_Marner) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well that's pretty nifty, I like. So are you saying that planets are out there forming in the middle of stardust, just sucking up stuff around them even if they aren't near an active sun ? Kinda makes planets no different than anything else, just big lumps of stuff floating around out there sucking up stuff that happens to get close, wandering around the blackness until they happen on a friendly star to circle ( or crash into ) . If that's what you're saying, I like it. We could be riding a rock that came from very far away, cruising around in a circle with a bunch of other rocks that came from vastly different places in space, rocks that didn't even form with the sun, but formed out in the darkness all by themselves uncountable years in the past. I'm attracted to the drama and mystery of that. Btw, I think it's entirely appropriate to be off topic at mid-night ( my time ) on a Friday night, in fact, to be on topic seems like a sin.

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