KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:58
fiveliter (Sharefin-light and heat for home usage) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for all the Y2K info. While I'm not going to move to a rural area and prepare for the total breakdown of society I certainly am going to be reasonably prepared for a 3 month interruption of utilities, groceries, etc. I'm thinking that the primary effects of Y2K will be economic and will amplify the upcoming worldwide recession/depression. It also may be the final nail in the coffin for fiat currencies and the welfare state mentality. Or, maybe not. Who knows? Lately I've been thinking about how to provide light and heat in a residence without utilities and have dismissed generators and solar panels as way too expensive. Overkill, basically. I've been reading about Aladdin kerosene lamps and have heard nothing but good things about them in terms of providing both light and heat for indoor use. Apparently they emit little or no smoke or odors, approximate a 60 watt bulb in candlepower, and can easily heat a bedroom. They cost from about $40 to $200 with the brass no-frills types listing for about $60-$100. They burn about a quart of kerosene every two days so about a dozen gallons would last 3 months or so. Have you ( or any other Kitcoites, for that matter ) had any experience with them? They would appear to be an ideal solution for emergency residential light and heat.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:54
Gollum (Up up and away...) ID#43349:
to come again some other day. Good night.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:51
EJ (Upcoming elections are delaying consensus on reforms in Brazil to qualify for IMF funds) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
while the $90B debt clock is ticking.

A spokesman for the IMF, talking with reporters outside while Fischer met here Saturday with Pedro Malan, the Brazilian finance minister, said an IMF mission would have to examine conditions in Brazil, perhaps for as long as three weeks, before any agreement would be made final.

( snip )

Cardoso has already been warned by Maluf, a populist who is considered a sure contender for the presidency in four years, that his party will vote against reforms.

Brazil Picking Governors in Votes Vital to Economy
New York Times on the Web
October 25, 1998

By DIANA JEAN SCHEMO

IO DE JANEIRO, Brazil -- Closing out elections that have held up action to
rescue the country's faltering economy, Brazilian voters will elect governors in
key states on Sunday.

Allies of President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, who was elected to a second term
three weeks ago, are lagging in the states of Minas Gerais, Rio de Janeiro and Rio
Grande do Sul. The most important race, for the governorship of Sao Paulo, is also the
closest and most bitter, pitting Mario Covas, who is running for re-election, against
Paulo Maluf, a former mayor of the city of Sao Paulo.

Though Covas took the lead in recent opinion polls, with the support of 45 percent of
those polled against 41 percent for Maluf, the margin of error was large enough to
suggest that either could win. Politically and economically, Sao Paulo's cooperation in
adhering to spending limits and supporting reforms is essential to their success.

The elections Sunday are very crucial, said Carlos Geraldo Langoni, director of the
world economic center at the Getulio Vargas Foundation here and a former president of
the Central Bank. This is a country that's still in political, not just economic,
transition.

With credit shrinking for emerging markets, Brazil has been struggling to regain
investor confidence, pulling together a $23 billion package of budget reductions and
tax increases to convince investors that it is serious about fiscal responsibility.

But the race is so important that despite the daily loss of hundreds of millions of dollars
in foreign reserves, the government has delayed announcing the details of a fiscal
adjustment package promised for Oct. 20. And it is taking its time reaching a final
agreement with the International Monetary Fund.

On Friday, Stanley Fischer, the deputy managing director of the IMF, ended a two-day
visit to Argentina and Brazil. He said that the IMF would contribute $15 billion toward
shoring up Brazil and that the combined aid could be double that amount.

A spokesman for the IMF, talking with reporters outside while Fischer met here
Saturday with Pedro Malan, the Brazilian finance minister, said an IMF mission would
have to examine conditions in Brazil, perhaps for as long as three weeks, before any
agreement would be made final. There is no other way to obtain a financing
agreement, the spokesman said.

Joseph Harmon, president of the Eximbank, also visited Brazil as the election neared,
and left Saturday saying the bank might increase its lending to Brazilian companies,
which currently receive some $3.8 billion in financing, by $2 billion or more.

He also said he would propose the Eximbank resume lending to the Brazilian
government after a 10-year hiatus, though the government is behind on some $240
million in payments since the early 1990s.

Though Cardoso has used crises to galvanize support in the past, getting the reforms
through Congress will probably be a far more demanding task in the coming term.

Cardoso has already been warned by Maluf, a populist who is considered a sure
contender for the presidency in four years, that his party will vote against reforms.
Though Maluf's party belongs to Cardoso's governing coalition, Cardoso had
endorsed Maluf's opponent, breaking a pledge to abstain from backing any candidate
in the race.

Maluf's already put the president on notice that they're waiting for him around the
corner in the Congress, said David Fleischer, a political science professor at the
Federal University of Brasilia. Winning or losing, he's very upset that the president
broke his word on neutrality.

As governor, Covas has been known largely for balancing the state's books, while
Maluf's administration had been repeatedly accused of corruption in delivering
government services. In Sao Paulo last week, the Covas campaign parked a giant
papier-mache chicken in a downtown square, reminding voters of a scandal during
Maluf's administration involving markups in the price of chicken bought for school
meals. His opponent called Maluf a fascist, a rat and a crook.

Maluf threw back curses. So revolting was his rival, he said, that our Lady of
Osasco struck down the platform on which Covas was speaking, when it collapsed in
the town of Osasco last week.

Church officials were quick to point out, however, that there is no such saint.
Fernando Altemeyer Junior, a spokesman for the Sao Paulo archdiocese, suggested
that creating the saint was something else the candidate could take credit for. Reciting
the candidate's slogan, he said, It was Maluf who did it.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:50
NTEOTWAWKI (@Tantulus Rex - Don't worry, we know who you are...) ID#390337:
Copyright © 1998 NTEOTWAWKI/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In a small black unmarked helicopter, on the race track ESM circuit over Mr. Johnston's estate, FLASH traffic coming in over the STU...

Colonel, there was only one correlation from Ft. Meade on Mr. Johnstons' intercept. I don't understand this sir.

# ... snip
# The Japanese Prime Minister, Ryutaro Hashimoto,
# told a luncheon meeting at Columbia University,
# I hope the U.S. will engage in efforts and in
# cooperation maintain exchange stability so we
# will not succumb to the temptation to sell off
# Treasury bills and switch our funds to gold
# snip ...

A reference to some intel gathered over 50 years ago. Do you know what this means? The grim look on his face barely visible under the dim glow of the red LEDs on the console caused the seargent's heart racing. Yes gunny, I know what this means, it means WAR! The paper transcription of the only hit to Mr. Johnstons' intercept, now crumpled and twisted in the Colonels' fist reads...

:From: Tokyo
:To: Washington
:December 7, 1941
:Purple ( Urgent - Very Important )
:
:#907, To be handled in government code.
: Re my #902a.
: Will the ambassador please submit to the
: United States Government ( if possible to the
: Secretary of State ) our reply to the United States
: at 1:00 p.m. on the 7th, your time.
:
:a - JD-1:7143 - text of Japanese reply.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:39
Gollum (@EJ ) ID#43349:
There is also percieved greed.

In a way, the lowering of rates HAS generated a heightened percieved risk on the part of foreign holders/buyers who have to also factor in the result of a weakening dollar.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:38
RAN (What are the implications of $200 Billion in new dollars being printed?) ID#411271:
-
The following is an attempt to post information from y2kwatch site, sent to me as an e-mail:

The availability of currency is something every American takes for

granted. Currency is the medium of exchange which facilitates

virtually 100% of all buying and selling activities. A functioning

currency system enables our high standard of living. Without a

functioning currency system, we must increasingly depend on barter,

which detracts from our ability to maintain a high standard of living.

Since the 1930s, the U.S. Dollar has performed the role of the world's

reserve currency. People, companies, and governments across the globe

trade in U.S. Dollars due to their high degree of collective

confidence in the ongoing stability of U.S. Government. This global

U.S. Dollar-based trading activity fuels a huge demand for U.S.

currency outside of our national borders. As a result, the Federal

Reserve estimates that 60-70% of $450 billion of U.S. banknotes

presently in circulation is held offshore.

The Federal Reserve recently proclaimed that it is furiously

increasing the pace of U.S. banknote production in anticipation of

Y2k-related demand. The official proclamation by the Federal Reserve

is that $200 billion in U.S. banknotes will be on standby alert, ready

to swing into action if our checking and credit card accounts falter

due to Y2k-related problems. This is significant news in and of

itself, but it is important to note that this $200 billion in currency

reserves cannot be increased due to production limitations. There are

only so many printing presses in existence and only so many hours in

the day to operate them.

This brings us to the Final Jeopardy question: What will prevent a

significant portion of this $200 billion in additional U.S. banknote

supplies from migrating to the various corners of the world?

The only serious competition to the U.S. Dollar as the world's reserve

currency is the new Euro, and it will not even begin to pose a serious

threat for at least several years. As long as the U.S. Dollar retains

its role as the world's reserve currency, we would logically expect

this U.S. Dollar migration to occur just as quickly as the new U.S.

banknotes are placed into circulation. This overlooked phenomenon

will shoot a big hole in the Federal Reserve's plan to shore up the

currency defenses domestically and leave us Americans quite vulnerable

to a shortage of U.S. banknotes in the wake of Y2k-related

withdrawals. Once the commanding officers at the Federal Reserve

realize what is happening, they will have no choice but to impose

rationing on U.S. banknote withdrawals which could heighten the sense

of Y2k panic and increase the severity of a recession.

Did I say recession? Yes, there now appears to be one on the horizon,

completely unrelated to Y2k. Combined with the anticipated Y2k

slowdown this will invariably result in cautious business and consumer

behavior and a decline in the velocity of money.

Simply put, velocity of money is the rate at which money circulates.

In times of caution, there will be fewer buying and selling

activities as a whole. Money will not change hands as rapidly. As a

result, there will appear to be less money in circulation. Think of

velocity of money as a monetary wind-chill factor. Just like a

strong January wind can make the effective temperature much colder

than what the thermometer shows, a slowdown in the velocity of money

can make the real economy much colder than what the typical economic

barometers may otherwise indicate.

Since money is a rather broadly defined concept encompassing

currency, checking account balances, credit card balances, marketable

securities, and precious metals, withdrawals of U.S. banknotes from

the banking system in anticipation of major Y2k-related problems could

contribute to the slowdown in the velocity of money and possibly

heighten the economic contractions already in place.

Now is the time to start adding U.S. banknotes to your arsenal. Your

mission should be to gradually build a U.S. banknote reserve equal to

3 months of net income. Take withdrawals in $10.00, $20.00, $50.00

and $100.00 denominations, unless you have a lot of room to store

$1.00 and $5.00 bills. Most importantly, understand the reporting

rules on currency withdrawals. A $10,000 withdrawal will get you on

the IRS watch list, as will two or more closely-bunched withdrawals

totaling $10,000. Plan to have your U.S. banknote reserves in place by

3-31-99, because the lines at the teller windows and ATM machines

aren't likely to be getting any shorter.

---

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:37
G-Nutz (Hrmm dunno if someone posted this already, but heard it on shortwave a few days ago..) ID#433143:
First successful TELEPORTATION

http://www.msnbc.com/news/207969.asp

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:36
jinx44 (Propane heaters in unventilated spaces) ID#57290:
Don't believe anyone that says you can use a combustion based heater in an enclosed space. Combustion needs O2, we need O2, guess who wins? It's a physical fact.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:36
Earl (Salty:) ID#227238:
The little bitty ones with a heavy patina? .... :- ) )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:35
Snowball (Messy 79 re: propane heaters) ID#290213:
You can also purchase ventless propane heaters for your home. They run anywhere from $150 on up. They very efficient. I just had two installed in my home and am planning on adding a line for an optional third one. You can buy them and most home improvement centers, or hvac distributors. You can also contact propane suppliers and they will generally carry them and install them for you. ( for a price )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:34
EJ (Gollum) ID#45173:
Lowering rates increases the return on risk but not the risk. What if the act of lowering rates increases the preceived risk more than the perceived value of the incremental return on risk?
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:31
EJ (That Market Bottom Might Be a Trap Door) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The New York Times on the Web
By KENNETH N. GILPIN
October 25, 1998

As almost anyone with a market memory can attest, the month of October is not
usually friendly for stocks. Since 1915, the Dow Jones industrial average has
fallen an average 0.17 percent in the 10th month of the year, according to
Birinyi & Associates. Only Septembers have been worse.

This year, September was a washout. But with one week to go, October has proved to
be the best month since January 1987. The performance has been enough to induce
hibernation in many bears.

Then there is James Grant, editor of Grant's Interest Rate Observer.

Q. Many people seem to think the stock market has seen its lows. You don't agree?

A. If this were the bottom, it would be the most remarkable one in history, one where
the Standard & Poor's 500 index is trading at 25 times earnings. That is a valuation
rarely achieved at the top of a market.

I think that this is a bear market rally. I would suppose that if the market gods were
designing a bear market rally, they would make it look as irresistible as possible and
would want as many participants as possible before opening the trap door.

Q. But there are hundreds of stocks, especially small caps, that are down 25 percent or
more this year. Are they overpriced?

A. Really cheap stocks are beginning to appear. The great, overarching question is
whether you are well advised to seize values in the secondary and tertiary parts of the
market when the primary market is selling at these multiples.

In my view, the answer is no, because when the GEs, the Charles Schwabs and the
other chosen fall, they will crush the smaller ones beneath them.

Q. Do you see value anywhere?

A. I have two favorite things: small-cap Japanese stocks and gold. There are
opportunities in Japan to buy profitable companies at little more than the net cash on
their balance sheets. You get the business for free. Gold, now at an 18-year low, has
disappointed more people than the old Brooklyn Dodgers. But I think it will be the
beneficiary of continued chaos in the credit markets and a worldwide economic
slowdown.

Q. Do you see anything of value closer to home? Or a company that is a massive,
screaming short?

A. I see both, actually.

In Canada, there is an outfit called Legacy Hotels, which is a real estate investment
trust with a bunch of lovely properties spun out by the real estate division of Canadian
Pacific. You can buy this stock for about half of book value, with a yield in the low
teens, an outfit with good management that is priced in Canadian dollars, which are
very cheap relative to the U.S. dollar. The risk is that there is a severe recession and
the business travelers stay home.

Q. What about the screaming short?

A. The short sale is Charles Schwab, a stock that is trading at 38 to 40 times earnings,
10 times book value. Schwab is priced as if there were no doubt about the continued
health and prosperity of the bull market.

Q. Now that the Fed has cut interest rates twice in a matter of weeks, fears of a credit
crunch and recession have diminished. Is that an appropriate reaction?

A. The credit crisis may sound melodramatic, but over the last several months there has
been a very severe bear market in credit of all kinds. And it should be seen in the
context of the preceding bull market in credit, where it was freely, if not almost
promiscuously, available.

There is no recession we know of right now, and yet we have had a credit crisis in this
country, which in the postwar period is a rare if not unique occurrence. It makes you
wonder what will happen to this institution of borrowing and lending if there is an
actual deflation, or an actual recession.

Q. But isn't it the Fed's job to take steps to prevent a credit crunch?

A. It has been the suppression of cycles that paradoxically has created a lot of the
volatility we have seen in the credit markets. By succeeding in perpetuating the
expansion, the Fed has failed in the sense that it has changed the behavior of people
with money.

By saving Mexico a couple of years ago, the authorities changed the way people view
sovereign credit risk. Hence the surprise when the Russian government defaulted. A
visitor from Mars would not have been surprised that a country without money could
not pay its bills. But many were surprised, because they had come to expect that the
integrity of the system will be defended.

By suppressing the volatility of the credit and business cycle, by trying to head off
price inflations and deflations, the Fed has thrown a boomerang in the air, which is the
risk tolerance of people who invest money.

The Fed ought to be in the business of central banking, not central planning. Alan
Greenspan ought to say that people who risk money stand to lose a lot of it. That is in
the nature of cycles and markets.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:30
Gollum (@Bully Beef ) ID#43349:
Mozel says it's hot and unihabitable. Does anyone make space coolers?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:26
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43349:
Lowering rates makes it cheaper to borrow. To the extent that companies and individuals do then proceed to borrow and spend liquidity is increased---eventualy.

Knowing that the Fed will be increasing rates however akes for a rush to acquire bonds and treasuries NOW in order to profit from the coming cut. This causes liquidity to diminish in the short term.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:26
EJ (Oh, Those Yawning Spreads) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
New York Times on the Web
October 25, 1998

By GRETCHEN MORGENSON

EW YORK -- True or false: The Federal Reserve's recent interest-rate cuts,
and those expected forthwith, will forestall an economic recession in the
United States and lower the risk that credit will dry up across the economy.

True, said the stock market as it meandered upward last week. In one of the calmest
five-day trading stretches in months, the Dow Jones industrial average closed at
8,452.29, up 0.4 percent.

The bond market, however, isn't sure that all is well yet. Smoke signals from much of
the non-Treasury bond markets say a recession remains a possibility. Moreover, while
it is unclear whether banks have stopped lending to good customers, the bond markets
are still gripped by catalepsy. And so a credit crisis might start there.

Because movements of various fixed-income instruments, like mortgage-backed
securities and high-yield bonds, aren't as easily tracked as stocks, what the bond
market is saying isn't immediately evident. But one sign of continued fear among these
investors is the difference between the yields they demand on junk bonds and those
paid by Treasury securities with like maturities. This difference is known as the
spread.

When investors embrace risk, as they did last spring, spreads between Treasury issues
and more speculative debt are narrow. As investors rush into riskier bonds, their prices
rise and yields decline. When investors shun risk, as they are now, spreads widen.

Despite the Fed's latest reduction in interest rates, on Oct. 15, spreads remain wide by
historical standards. The estimated yield on Salomon Smith Barney's index of
high-yield bonds exceeds that on Treasuries by 6.82 percentage points, compared with
a 5.3-point spread before the rate cut.

This spread is reflecting a great concern that the economic environment is not very
healthy and that, if anything, surprises will be on the downside, said Ned Riley, chief
investment officer of the BankBoston Corp. Riley agrees with the market and expects
corporate earnings to be chronically disappointing for six to nine months.

The hefty spread on junk bonds is also a sign that the huge market for these corporate
bonds is still frozen. As a result, the credit squeeze that the Fed fretted about when it
lowered rates remains a possibility.

According to Riley, credit contractions can happen for two reasons. One is a result of
restrictive moves by bank regulators. The other is more emotional, with lenders pulling
back from loans more out of fear of default than its reality.

It's the emotional action we have to worry about now, Riley said. As lenders
become gun-shy, they can create a credit squeeze even without monetary authorities
being a catalyst.

Hence the interest in credit spreads. If they narrow, it will mean that lenders are
becoming more optimistic about their customers' prospects. If they stay wide, a credit
contraction is likely.

Both stock and bond investors think the Fed's recent rate cuts, though welcome, are
not enough. Indeed, many are hoping for a one-half-point slash in the federal funds
rate at the next Federal Open Market Committee meeting in November.

These hopes could be dashed. Late last week, several Fed members started
telegraphing that further rate cuts were not necessarily a given. In a speech on
Thursday, J. Alfred Broaddus, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond,
said said the risk that the economy's growth rate could accelerate -- aka inflation --
hadn't vanished. And, he said, the Fed cannot be held hostage to the markets on
interest-rate policy.

The stock market has shrugged this off. So far.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:16
EJ (Price of oil rises, price of gold...) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hint of coming oil crunch lies behind Conoco offering

By John Ellis, Globe Columnist, 10/24/98

The largest initial public offering in the United States went off without a hitch Wednesday,
as institutional and small investors snapped up more than 190 million shares of Conoco, the
nation's eighth largest oil company. Demand for Conoco shares was so strong that its
corporate parent, DuPont, ended up selling 30 percent of the company and raising $4.4
billion. Those dollars will help DuPont transform itself for the coming genomics revolution.
Conoco's initial public offering provides insight into an approaching sea change in the oil
business.

The private-to-public market has been as dead as a smelt since the collapse one month ago
of the high-flying hedge fund Long Term Capital. Even Goldman Sachs, the nation's most
formidable investment banking firm, canceled its offering in the wake of Long Term
Capital's demise. If Goldman Sachs couldn't be brought to market, investors asked, what
could be?

The answer, it turned out, was Conoco, an oil company with an impressive track record of
earnings ( even in these times of lower crude oil prices ) and an attractive dividend of 76
cents a share ( 3.3 percent based on the offering price of $23 per share ) . Conoco is the kind
of stock that mutual fund managers can load up on and still sleep peacefully through the
night.

But the larger story about the success of the offering is more chilling. It is based upon a
study published in Scientific American last March, which was based on a working paper
presented to the International Energy Agency one year ago. Both documents were written
by Colin Campbell and Jean Laherrere, senior partners in Petroconsultants, a geological
consulting firm.

Between them, these two men have more than 40 years of experience as senior geologists to
such international oil giants as Total, Amoco, and Texaco. Both are highly regarded for
their expertise and their sober analysis of geological realities. Hysterics, they are not.
Here's what they wrote in Scientific American:

''The next oil crunch will not be so temporary. Our analysis of the discovery and
production of oil fields around the world suggests that within the next decade, the supply of
conventional oil will be unable to keep up with demand. This conclusion contradicts the
picture one gets from oil industry reports, which boasted of 1,020 billion barrels of oil
( BBO ) in proved reserves at the start of 1998. Dividing that figure by the current production
rate of about 23.6 BBO a year might suggest that crude oil could remain plentiful and cheap
for 43 more years probably longer, because official charts show reserves growing.

''Unfortunately, this appraisal makes three critical errors. First, it relies on distorted
estimates of reserves. A second mistake is to pretend that production will remain constant.
Third and most important, conventional wisdom erroneously assumes that the last bucket of
oil can be pumped from the ground just as quickly as the barrel of oil gushing from wells
today. In fact, the rate at which any well or any country can produce oil always rises to a
maximum and then, when about half the oil is gone, begins falling gradually back to zero.

''From an economic perspective, when the world runs completely out of oil is thus not
directly relevant; what matters is when production begins to taper off. Beyond that point,
prices will rise unless demand declines commensurately. Using several different techniques
to estimate the current reserves of conventional oil and the amount still left to be discovered,
we conclude that the decline will begin before 2010.''

Global demand for oil is expected to double in the next 30 years. Since 1990, according to
Barrons, consumption of oil products has jumped by 50 percent in Asia and by one third in
Latin America. A long report in The New York Times Thursday made clear that American
thirst for oil products shows no signs of abating. ''Commensurate'' decline in world
demand for oil is not going to happen.

Which means that oil price increases are almost certainly just around the corner. Some oil
company executives are almost alarmist about the coming oil crunch. James Srodes, writing
in last week's Barrons, notes that Franco Bernabe, chief executive of a major Italian oil
company, has given ''a series of interviews in which he moved the doomsday clock
forward to between 2000 and 2005. He forecast that today's world oil price would soon
begin to rise from its $15 base and quickly pass the $30 mark.''

Global economic development is heavily dependent on cheap oil. Oil accounts for 38
percent of all energy used, according to Srodes, and ''a barrel of oil routinely offers 10 or
more times raw power for our activities than it takes to get it, conferring an enormous profit
not only on the companies that supply oil but on the entire economy.'' Without cheap oil,
economic activity recedes.

Oil companies are rapidly consolidating in advance of the coming oil crunch. They've read
the Campbell-Herrere analysis and they do not disagree. British Petroleum recently acquired
Amoco, and other ''majors'' are actively looking for acquisition targets. Conoco, in all
likelihood, will be one of those targets. That's good news for all those new Conoco
shareholders; alarming news for the rest of us.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:14
EJ (@BUGal & Dabchick & Gollum) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BUGal, the stronger man does not need to be defended from the weaker by the tribe. In fact, the attempt is insulting to the stronger's position.

Dabchick, thanks for your response on the deflation/inflation question. It is the $64T question. And there may be no linear answer. As in, things happen in one direction. We may have a brief period of inflation followed by a deap and lasting deflation.

Gollum, you say, Unless treasury bond paper is turned back into cash paper ( which appears to be atarting to happen now ) liquidity will remain tight unless somebody starts doing even more printing. That's what's got me confused. Liquidity has tightened the most these past two months at the same time M3 has increased more than any time in the past three years. There is a hypothesis that under some circumstances Fed attempts to increase liquidity by printing more and lowering rates actually has the effect of decreasing liquidity. I'm rooting around in my archives for the article. It's pretty compelling and may explain the apparent contradiction.
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:07
RAN (sharefin, your fine, your posts are appreciated. Nothing personal intended) ID#411271:
More than anything I think I have reached a personal saturation point on the dark side of y2k. Everything isn't horrible and everything isn't just fine. I need a balance of news right now, for me anyone. Again
apologies.
Bye the bye- my sister lives near Cairns. In Herberton actually, she is trying to put out her own newspaper in the community to the chagrin of Rupert Murdock who fired her a ways back. I would love to believe I'll have an oppurtunity to visit her in the near next millenium you know.
Do you ever burn out on the negativity of all y2k posts?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:06
Jack (Y2K....never get the words right ) ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Aren't computer controlled systems used in water
treatment plants, electrical power plants and railway
routing systems set up for manual control as a backup,
in case of failure?

I think that they would be smart enough to think
about such simple safe guards for such important.

A trucker delievering food stuffs long distance can check by calling his destination point to see if the contents in his cargo agree with what the source is expecting.

It might be wise to to halt all speculative hedge fund
activity 3 months before Y2K. In other words hedging
would be permitted only for commercials and bonafide
businesses.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:05
messy79 (Space heaters) ID#346209:
Thanks for info re propane heat; sounds like venting would be in order.
The construction area types warn to keep doors open etc.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:01
Jack (Y2K) ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Aren't computer controlled systems used in water treatment plants, electrical power plants and railway routing systems set up for manually control as a backup in failure?

I would think that they would be smart enough to think about such simple safe guards.

A trucker delievering food stuff long distance can check by calling his destination point to see if the contents in his cargo agree with what the source is expecting.

It might be wise to to halt all speculative hedge fund activity 3 months before Y2K. In other words hedging would be permitted only for commercials and bonafide businesses.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 23:00
Bully Beef (Everybody in these parts have gone to High efficiency oil furnaces.It's the cheapest heat but not ) ID#260119:
worth a darn in a power outage.In the urban areas they use natural gas. Very cheap heating.I don't know what happens to them in a power outage.I can heat my 2000 sq.ft. home all winter with 5 bush cords of hardwood.It's been so warm here in east Ontario this fall I have hardly needed any heat at all.Greenhouse effect.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:55
sharefin (RAN) ID#284255:
-
I hope I you don't think I'm personally projecting worst case scenarios.
More-so with the post about Y2k and mining effects.

My post as to this was to raise awareness that many mining companies do rely heavily on modern technology.

And that they will suffer problems unless plans are made to cicumvent this.
Seems this is what many companies are doing.
Remediation and contingency planning.

As to embedded chips well I'd better leave this to the experts.
There is plenty of documented information as to what will work and won't.
Many better minds on this subject here at Kitco.

Many are profit mongering on the subject.
T'is the way of new cults/themes.
After all with an estimated Trillion in costs
The spoils must go to someone.

As to
who wish to carry the banner of forewarning
There will only be conjecture till the day is done.
Nothing will be conclusive till then.
Rumours will run rife.
And we need more positive reports.

There are experts out there - who I respect
Who claim, that with this Y2k bug
That even the most rigorous testing will not be the same.
As to actual live functioning after the event.

Such is the way of these computers.

------------------------------------------
LGB
and others
This report is a must read.
It is a global statement form world experts.
You need to read the full report noty the first two pages.

http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Y2k/CSIS_Report.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:53
Bully Beef (Jeez .... just when I thought space was cold and a vacuum and uninhabitable...) ID#260119:
they make space heaters. Do these resemble a thermos?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:53
quion97 (ABX convertibles) ID#230244:
I own a good chunck o ABX CONV they are traded under TRIZEC HAHN CORP CONV 3% 29 JAN 2021 EXchangeABLE fo ABX shares once it reaches 31$ or 32 shares.Now trading at $80.00 52wk high 86.75 low 54.00.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:49
Greenstone Gold (If only the Americans would do this.............) ID#428218:
Copyright © 1998 Greenstone Gold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


Extract from the WGC.......

The possibility of Russia issuing gold and silver coins as a means of backing the rouble appears to be strengthening with consultations between the Central Bank of Russia and Gokhran, the state precious metals reserve, currently underway.

Following the default on domestic debt and the imposition of a moratorium on some foreign debt repayments last August, the prospects for further borrowings are bleak, while the central bank is refusing to issue unbacked roubles. With a fourth quarter budget deficit estimated at 100 billion roubles, the Russian government is desperately seeking funds and seems to be looking to gold to provide at least a partial solution. According to press reports between 100 billion and 200 billion roubles ( $6.25 billion and $12.5 billion ) worth of coins could be issued using the reserves of Gokhran, but initially an experimental 1.5 to 4.5 billion roubles ( 10-30 tonnes ) could be minted. It is intended, if the plan gains approval, to use the coins as a means of payment and also trade them on exchanges. These proposals raise as many questions as they answer and further clarification of Russia’s intentions is needed.


If the American financial system were do resolve their official US$5.5 trillion dollar debt via GOLD.........who would own America ?

Interesting thought........

yen carry trade + gold carry trade = loss of American sovereignty

Not a easy one to resolve.............



Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:45
Caper (Space Heaters) ID#300202:
Both oil & propane space heaters more than common in households this area. Plenty of homes with elec. heat, but elec. heat too expensive in basement area therefore the addition of the space heater. Not sure what they are new-perhaps 600/700. I managed to buy one bout a yr old for 100.00-he installed it for me also. Advantage of propane-no electricity req'd-versus oil requiring elec.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:45
Cyclist (Forewarned) ID#339274:
Copyright © 1998 Cyclist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To John Disney:What is your take on the following:

page 30, Financial Times, Wednesday, October 21, 1998: South Africa
Plans to Take Mineral Rights..... The South African government has confirmed the fears of the country's big mining companies in a policy paper released yesterday. It said it will transfer mineral rights from the private sector to the state.............

Another point in the same paper discusses the change in the Japanese
private investment legislation;The new Japanese Investor Protection Fund, which goes into effect December 1. It seems that foreign brokers claim the regulatory standards do not meet the international regulatory standards. The dispute arose because a new wave of Japanese brokers are expected to fail when half-year results are issued Friday. The new regulations, in particular, will not force Japanese brokers to segregate customer funds from their own accounts after December 1.
This means weak brokers could raid client's accounts to raise cash, creating huge losses if they fail! Risky assets would require protection of 300 million Yen, and foreign brokers fear they would have to shoulder part of the risk! This absolute insanity will drive any intelligent Japanese investor to the US markets. In addition, with pension funds in Japan switching to buying US Debt instruments,will cause the bond prices
to skyrocket after the New Year,stockmarkets to rally and the Yen going
to another low.
This situation resembles the eighties,the Japanese buying California
property at their peak,with buying treasury bonds at their lowest rates
in the New Year.This undoubtedly is a setup that will be remembered
years after.Ah well,it's only money,I will leave you to ponder
the ramifications.
Have a nice weekend
able to invest for the first time in history overseas starting January 1

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:39
Caper (messy) ID#300202:
My Fireplace has a double flue. Have mine in basement vented into secondary flue. Leased two propane tanks from local company @ about 75.00 per yr.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:25
aurator () ID#257151:
Earl
BJM just left with a pair of candle sticks, happy , she was, happy.
Thanks to all for the help

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:23
mapleman (Y2K oooooh scary) ID#350288:

The 7th month of the year 1999.
from the sky will come the king of terror.
This may be a more near term concern. If we skate by this one, then maybe I will think about filling up a milk jug with water.
Whats he talking about, few know for sure, but I would be watching the big orange ball in the sky.
Oh yea go gold !!!!!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:19
RAN (messy 79, propane space heaters are primarily sold for construction industry) ID#411271:
use. The fumes they put off can be obnoxious though not noxious in a poisonous way. So yes they can be used in unventilated indoor spaces.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:15
RAN (sharefin- I like you am not a compgeek, and much of Y2K issues escape) ID#411271:
-
my knowingness. I do think however when that is the case it may be better to remain silent on implications, or at the least I would question

always jumping to worst case scenarios.

On the subject of embedded chips I have this observation. If the original problem bug was due to conservation of costly hard drive space

why then would embedded chips utilize any year dependent timing at all.

My background is as an electrician and for example time clocks used to turn virtually anything on/off do not have to have year/date capability unless an owner/occupant wishes holiday programing, otherwise 7 day programing proceeds just fine to infinity. So how many embedded chips

have the ultimate space saver of continous 7 day week programming. I mean if we are talking about efficiency assume any mining equipment has

a manual/master on and then other ( embedded control chips ) automate the remaining processes when asked for. Seems reasonable or plausible to me.

Another question I would ask. I understand the signifigance of the bug to PCs and hard drives as the erroneous computation of date blows its mind so to speak, but when we speak of embedded chips are not their minds

so much less & thus less susceptible to being blown?

I have on these forums previously described myself as a Y2K 9, but I am of late turning to more of a middle of the roader, a 6.

Another reason for this turn is that I believe we repeatedly see the

whipping of the public mind for the profit advantage, and right now that advantage is definitely on the side of those who would promote the most dire of circumstances.

My son attends Tennessee Tech University and they held a Y2K symposium on solutions to problems from the computer engineering department, and while the time factor and labor shortages were still

seen to be a problem.The technologies of fixing, by-passing in manual modes, paralleling with new portable- even laptop computers and many other solutions are being looked at and developed at a pace that gave this former doomer & gloomer much hope.

Bottom line there will disruptions, but at this point in time it is unknown by anyone to what extent, and I feel it is very incumbent on those who wish to carry the banner of forewarning to at least carry an even hand, avoid topics that are not conclusive, shun rumor, and as we approach 1/01/2000 keep in mind some positive news developments will need dissemination as vitally as accurate reporting of the laggards.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:14
messy79 (Caper) ID#346209:
Can you use propane space heater INSIDE your house?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:13
Caper (Sharefin) ID#300202:
Tks

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:08
Rob (The Hatt (VSE starting to heat up!) ID#294232:) ID#412273:
Hatt, look at Triband ( TBD.A ) They've got 2,000,000 in cash and a large property in Nevada. They also have alot of other stuff. I own the shares.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 22:04
sharefin (Caper) ID#284255:
-
Many spokespersons for companies have been instucted to ambiguously give out confirmation of their companies ablility to be compliant before Y2k.

This has been rigorously investigated by their lawyers.
Always ask for compliancy in writing.
And you need to accept that nothing short of actual compliancy is worth anything.

It has been noted in many areas that company members are saying it's going to all be okay, and covertly proceeding to undertake their own stockpiling - generators, food etc.

I heard 3rd hand the other day of one Kitcoite who had been discussing the subject with his bank manager.
The bank manager had warned this person, that the bank had been spending far more money and time, in protecting the records of whom owed the bank money, rather than whom the bank owed money to.

Now this is only conjecture, but with a limited deadline, which one knows one won't achieve, it would be prudent policy.

I know not the truth behind this story, but believe it on the surface because of these implications.

This sort of logic will be applied to many facets of Y2k remediation.
Mission critical is imperative.

----
Tantalus Rex
Thanks for the link.
Namaste

-------
Aurator
Of the cargo cults.

We have yet to experience this one.
In the US, Y2k has already become a cargo cult.
Yet here there is not even awareness as yet.

On the webrings
Y2k has already overtaken Monicka.





Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:58
Caper (Earl) ID#300202:
Outrage translated to OUTAGE. I now have a propane space heater to complement my woodstove. Had a three day power outage last winter thruout the Island. Woodstove helped a little-but 2600 sq ft res. gotta get smarts.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:54
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...) ID#31868:
http://www.tv-u.com/un.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:53
Earl (Caper:) ID#227238:
That's truly a shocking revelation. A large organization that practices the yankee spin control. An outrage. That's what it is. ..... :- )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:38
sharefin (Gold Dancer) ID#284255:
-
I have been issuing light warning as to the implications of Y2k on mining companies.
No one else up to now has even talked about it.

There are many facets of Y2k which could have detrimental effects on mining production.

RIO has already announced that they will close some mines down over the rollover before restarting.

It has already been accepted that some heavy machinery will be effected because of embedded chips.

Plus there is the threat of supply of fuel sources and electricity.

Much of the fixed equipment ( conveyors, plant, etc ) have embedded systems throughout them.

The article in question raised an interesting point re; legal aspects of safety.

This article makes some poignat references to the impacts of GPS on mining.
http://www.gpsworld.com/feature/0398feat/0398feature.html

There are many internally threats that could impact mining.
Also many external threats that could force the closures.
ie. the next factory down the line that handles the mine's production.
Transportation of raw materials.
Supply of labour and infrastructure. etc.

Many are what-if's at the moment and will remain so untill lots more testing is done or untill the actual rollover occurs.

One thing that can be assured;
Many mines today are high-tech and run with modern technology.
Implementation of modern technology has been widespread because of cost effectiveness.

How else have they been able to extract ores with low grades and make profits?

Many mines cannot retain their profitability, unless they are running full time and producing vast ammouts of ore.

Any causal effects of Y2k that impact on them, will hamper their production.

To write-off the impacts on Y2k on mining because you had some bad advice previously would be foolhardy.

Due diligence is required first.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:36
Caper (Sharefin) ID#300202:
Ur word from the other night Proof prompted me into seeking proof rather except the word of our utility spokesperson. In going thru their backdoor, I determined that our Power Company employees are buying propane space heaters & generators for their personal res'. Bottom line-they are Y2K ready BUT do not know if it will work. Spokesperson lying by ommission.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:32
Earl (Salty: @jack be nimble, jack be quick....) ID#227238:
As regards the issue of the potentially purloined but beautifully burnished brass candlesticks; ..... look at this way:

Assuming BJM precedes you to her reward they will, at some point, return to your keeping. Should that scene become not operative ....... then it won't make any difference to you, no how. 'Less of course you plan to pack 'em all along with you.

In short, humor her .......... but don't show her the pig!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:26
Tantalus Rex (Gotta Sign off) ID#295111:
CIAO for now ...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:23
Tantalus Rex (POG and the T-Bill Rate) ID#295111:
Just a thought on leasing ...
Just thought of something ...

I think that if the CB's/Masters Of The Unverse were to lease Gold at the T-Bill rate, then Gold would not lose its purchasing value.

Anything under the T-Bill rate puts pressure on the POG in terms of purchasing power.

Anything above the T-Bill rate, means gold gains in purchasing power.

And the T-Bill rate must be US treasuries cause Gold is purchased in US funds.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:21
Silverbaron (Tantlus Rex ) ID#273432:
Here's sharefin's AMAZING site: http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Master.htm

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:19
The Hatt (Codeman/ Thanks for the updates on CLN.) ID#294232:
I just took a look at the chart and this stock looks like it is ready to take off. MACD,RELATIVE STRENGTH, MOVING AVERAGES tied to the fundamentals and this thing has to be a winner. Thanks again for the update!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:13
Tantalus Rex (@sharefin - Your web site) ID#295111:
What's the address to your web site

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:11
Tantalus Rex (@Sharefin - The Sting) ID#295111:
I just signed back on... yep it's in Vronsky's site...

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/birch030498.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:08
mole (thanks Cosmo) ID#350145:
i looked it up on stockwatch, had pretty good volume on friday. will study it further. guess we all have our eye on argentina gold. i saw the drill results on that one a week age, didn't believe them, then stock shot up. guess i should have believed them.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:06
Silverbaron (BillD) ID#290456:

It seems to be that their notices are usually behind the curve, anyway. Gold Crash? It seems to me that it would be pretty hard to crash when you're at these levels - a $10 drop ain't no crash - a $50 drop is a crash.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:02
Silverbaron (Current Privateer gold commentary) ID#290456:
http://www.the-privateer.com/gold6.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 21:01
Silverbaron (sharefin) ID#290456:

I think the Sting link is in vronsky's site, editorials section.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:56
BillD (@Silverbaron...i.e. PEI) ID#263456:

At least it has improved from the CRASH ALERT THEY had last week for gold spot...grin..

thanx


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:55
sharefin (Tantalus Rex - The Sting) ID#284255:
I have been looking for this article to link to my webpage.
I posted it here long ago and have not been able to find the link hidden upon Bart's server.

Could you please post the link here so I could add it.
TIA

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:52
Silverbaron (Princeton Economics market commentary) ID#290456:
http://www.peicommerce.com/HMEFRAME.HTM

Click on Global Market Watch, then on #4.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:40
Cosmo (East Africa Gold!!! v-EAG) ID#342261:
Copyright © 1998 Cosmo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
THESE ARE AMAZING RESULTS COMING FROM THE LAKE VICTORIA GOLDFIELDS!!!

CHECK OUT V-EAG ON THIS WEBSITE: http://www.gorilla.net.au/presentation/eagc/index.html

SET YOUR BOOKMARKS BECAUSE THIS URL IS HARD TO FIND!!!

PULL THE ANNUAL REPORT OFF OF SEDAR TO COMPLETE THE PICTURE.

Carlson has all the companies news releases or stockwatch.

LOOK THEM UP ON THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE AND UPDATE THE NEWS FROM CARLSON. IT WOULD APPEAR THE AUSTRALIAN MANAGEMENT HAS NOT QUITE FIGURED OUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE INTERNET TO NORTH AMERICAN INVESTORS.



EAST AFRICA GOLD CORPORATION ANNOUNCES INTERIM DRILLING RESULTS FROM BUCKREEF AND KITONGO PROSPECTS IN TANZANIA
BALCATTA, WESTERN AUSTRALIA--

Interim results from a drilling programme currently in progress on
the Buckreef and Kitongo prospects are announced. The directors are
encouraged by the results to date and the remaining programme
continues at a steady pace.

Highlights to date from Buckreef and Kitongo.


First four holes out of twenty-eight holes from Buckreef returned:

BMRCD185 18.25m @ 15.41 g/t Au from 118-136.25m
BNMCD186 16.30m @ 31.01 g/t Au from 127.3-143m.
BMRCD188 22.30m @ 4.53 g/t Au from 127-149.3m.
BMRCD189 5.00m @ 4.07 g/t Au from 157-162m.
7.00m @ 2.21 g/t Au from 173-180m.
12.00m @ 2.52 g/t Au from 191-203m.


Main Zone at Kitongo:

KTRC089 51m @ 3.70 g/t Au from 0-51m.
KTRC097 32m @ 9.07 g/t Au from 9-41m.
KTRC098 32m @ 3.20 g/t Au from 0-32m.
KTRC100 35m @ 2.74 g/t Au from 0-35m.
KTRC101 6m @ 4.67 g/t Au from 0-6m.
22m @ 3.15 g/t Au from 21-43m

Full results to date are detailed in Tables 1 & 2.


[signed]
Klaus Eckhof
Director for Exploration and Authorised Signatory

1. BUCKREEF PROJECT
An RC / diamond tail drilling programme commenced at Buckreef in
early September.

The programme is designed to test the main Buckreef Mineralised
Shear zone at a vertical depth between 50 and 120m underneath the
existing oxide resource. Previous drilling by Kinross in 1995
included relatively few deeper drillholes, most of which
intersected economic grades. The 1998 programme includes 24
drillholes for approximately 5000m. This will test a 280m strike
length of the mineralized zone ( plan attached ) .

Results

Drilling commenced on Section 2120N at the southern end of the
proposed programme. The first result was 18.25m @ 15.41g/t in
BMRCD185 ( 118-136.3m ) . This leaves a high potential for high grade
mineralisation further to the south. Moving northward, the second
hole BMRCD186 returned 16.3m @ 31.01g/t ( 127.7-143m ) . This
remarkable result is higher than any previous drilling at Buckreef
and suggests 'super high grade' shoots may be present.

Results for the other two holes BMRC187 and BMRCD188 entered stopes
from previous mining. However both holes still returned significant
grades. BMRCD188 returned 22.3m @ 4.53g/t outside of the stope,
suggesting significant mineralisation has been left behind even in
areas previously thought to have been extracted.

The next two holes to the north have been completed and a zone of
mineralisation similar to the first holes was intersected. Assays
should be at hand in the following week.

TABLE 1: SUMMARY RESULTS FOR BUCKREEF RC / DIAMOND DRILLING 9/10/99
===================================================================
Hole North East Dec Az Depth
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD185 2120 1090 -62 degrees 270 degrees 144.2
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD186 2140 962 -60 degrees 90 degrees 150.6
------------------------------------------------------------------
inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD187 2160 1070 -60 degrees 270 degrees 81
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD188 2160.6 970 -60 degrees 90 degrees 150
------------------------------------------------------------------
inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD189 2160 955 -60 degrees 90 degrees 204
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------
inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------


Hole Intersection Width Grade Remarks
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD185 118-136.25 18.25 15.41 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD186 127.7-143 16.3 31.01 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
127.7-139 11.3 42.4 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD187 Hole Abandoned RC hole - hit stope
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD188 127-149.3 22.3 4.53 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
143-149.3 6 10.97 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD189 157-162 5 4.07 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
173-180 7 2.21 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
191-203 12 2.52 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
191-195 4 4.41 Core Intersection
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Azimuth relevant in grid north.

Commentary

It is clear that the results to date suggest some very high grades
and significant widths of mineralisation exist at depth at
Buckreef. Also of note is that a significant zone of grade
depletion appears to be present on some sections at around 30-40m
depth. It is possible that this represents a partially leached
zone, and that the primary mineralisation ( mostly untested in
previous drilling ) is of much higher grade. A similar scenario is
present at Bulyanhulu where the top 50m of mineralisation is
partially leached and sporadic in character. It was partly as a
result of this that Bulyanhulu was explored for 20 years without
the true significance of its potential being realised.

2. Kitongo PROJECT

A programme of RC and RAB drilling is currently in progress on the
Kitongo Prospect. The program follows on from a period of detailed
geological mapping, structural studies and rock chip sampling
earlier in 1998 which has provided focussed targets for drill
testing.

RC Drilling

Approximately 4000m of RC drilling has been completed to date out
of a proposed programme of 6500m. The RC drilling is designed to
test extensions of the known mineralisation, as well as confirming
the nature and continuity of mineralisation within the previously
defined Kitongo Main Zone. In addition a small reconnaissance
programme is planned at Kitongo Hill, some 4km NW of the Main Zone
where mapping and rock chip sampling have identified a large and
potentially high surface anomaly.

Results

Results for the programme to date are very encouraging. Infill
drilling in the Main Zone has returned some very high grades that
will significantly enhance the overall grade and contained ounces
of the current resource. Best results to date include 51 m @ 3.7g/t
( 0-51 m ) including 16m @ 7.78g/t ( 35-51m ) in KTRCO89 and 32m @
9.07g/t ( 9-41m ) in KTRC097.

Two holes testing a RAB anomaly some 150m west of the Main Zone
have identified a new parallel zone of mineralisation. KTRC086
returned 11m % 2.6g/t ( 14-25m ) and KTRC087 returned 18m @ 1.89g/t
( 50-68m ) . Full results to date are detailed in Table 2.

Current RC holes are concentrating on testing the Northern
Extension of the Main Zone, where RAB drilling has defined an
additional 400m of strike with +1g/t grades near surface.
Significant intersection ( greater than 20m ) of gossan and
sulphide are reported. Assay results are awaited.


RAB Drilling

A programme of greater than or equal to 8000m of RAB drilling is
underway. This programme is planned to test for further extensions
of the Main Zone mineralisation beyond the current extent of RC
drilling. Significant new targets parallel to the Main Zone
mineralisation awe now becoming apparant from surface mapping and
sampling and these are also to be tested. Results are expected in
the coming weeks.

TABLE 2: KITONGO PROJECT
RC DRILLING RESULTS TO 8th OCTOEBER 1998

Hole East North AZ Dec
--------------------------------------------------------
KTRC073 3850 10555 270 degrees -60 degrees

KTRC074 3850 10495 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC075 3850 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC076 3850 10395 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC077 3850 10350 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC078 3850 10295 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC079 3900 10495 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC080 3900 10550 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC081 3900 10690 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC082 3900 10625 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC083 3950 10550 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC084 3950 10475 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC085 3950 10375 270 degrees -60 degrees


KTRC086 4050 10250 270 degrees -60 degrees

KTRC087 4050 10300 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC088 4000 10545 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC089 4025 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
inc.

KTRC090 3975 10460 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
KTRC091 3975 10400 270 degrees -60 degrees

inc.

KTRC092 4000 10600 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC093 4050 10650 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC094 4050 10600 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC095 4100 10630 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC096 4100 10525 270 degrees -60 degrees


KTRC097 4075 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
KTRC098 4075 10425 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.

KTRC099 4075 10500 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC100 4125 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
KTRC101 4175 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees

KTRC102 4175 10500 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
inc.
KTRC103 4125 10500 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC104 4150 10630 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC105 4150 10600 270 degrees -60 degrees


Hole Hole Inter- Width Grade
Depth ( m ) section ( m ) ( m ) ( g/t Au )
--------------------------------------------------------
KTRC073 99 8-12 4 2.03
22-25 3 2.26
KTRC074 90 5-8 3 1.32
KTRC075 93 1-2 1 1.08
KTRC076 90 0-8 8 1.77
KTRC077 81 0-7 7 1.27
KTRC078 69 3-7 4 2.79
KTRC079 90 0-4 4 1.80
KTRC080 93 NSR
KTRC081 87 71-72 1 1.38
KTRC082 51 1-3 2 1.64
KTRC083 90 59-60 1 1.63
KTRC084 78 0-1 1 1.01
KTRC085 72 5-6 1 2.62
30-36 6 2.18
45-46 1 9.08
KTRC086 60 14-25 11 2.60
45-46 1 1.13
KTRC087 72 50-68 18 1.89
KTRC088 92 NSR
KTRC089 81 0-51 51 3.70
2-10 8 5.68
35-51 16 7.78
66-75 9 0.88
KTRC090 63 0-38 38 1.46
0-1 1 11.20
KTRC091 60 0-60 60 0.80
3-13 10 1.15
11-13 2 3.02
55-60 5 1.49
KTRC092 93 NSR
KTRC093 99 NSR
KTRC094 93 NSR
KTRC095 90 66-71 5 1.69
KTRC096 102 0-12 12 1.99
79-86 7 1.41
99-100 1 1.25
KTRC097 51 9-41 32 9.07
9-30 21 13.20
KTRC098 39 0-32 32 3.20
4-17 13 5.69
37-40 3 1.0
KTRC099 60 50-51 1 1.14
KTRC100 42 0-35 35 2.74
12-35 23 3.55
KTRC101 60 0-6 6 4.67
21-43 22 3.15
KTRC102 48 12-48 36 1.55
14-34 20 2.17
29-34 5 3.25
KTRC103 58 0-28 28 1.12
KTRC104 84 NSR
KTRC105 84 56-66 10 2.08

Note: NSR = No Significant Result, Azimuth relevant to local grid
( Grid North = 040 magnetic ) .
All assaying was performed with a standard sample preparation and
fire assay techniques ( including checks and standards ) at a
reputable internationally approved laboratory ( SGS ) in Mwanza,
Tanzanin.

EAST AFRICA GOLD CORP
BUCKREEF PROJECT
RC / DD DRILLING
September / October 1998
***Map***

EAST AFRICA GOLD CORP
KITONGO PROJECT
RC DRILLING
September / October 1998
***Map***

EAST AFRICA GOLD CORP
Ground Floor, 30 Ledgar Road, Balcatta, Western Australia 6021
Telephone +61 8 9240 1622
Facsimile +61 8 9240 1743
Email:eastaf@ca.com.au


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:37
Silverbaron (Carmack) ID#290456:
But here's a slightly less-optomistic-looking cycles chart http://www.intersurf.com/~vor/golde.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:35
cherokee (@...chop-asaki.city...........) ID#343449:

tlnrt1...wooki...

http://www.tex-is.net/users/csbrocato/latest.htm

now........i have posted the link....directly.
does this mean one is surfing on this wave?
how does one form an educated opinion? by surfing many waves....

cherokee!;..surfing.with.the.silver.surfer...ycbmatish..dotssmfatimmb.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:35
Silverbaron (Carmack @ Gold @ 325) ID#290456:

FWIW, check the weekly gold cycle projection
oscillator on this site:

http://www.marketprojections.com

User: hixson
Password: thmetal

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:33
mole (@carmac re paranoia and fixing of gold) ID#350145:
Copyright © 1998 mole/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
good post. i try to be less paranoid ( and more thoughtful ) , because there are things which are fixed and conspiratorial, but i think most conspiracy buffs just like the thrill. about gold: my guess, regarding softness, is that the bigger variables with gold are the forward selling and lack of interest ( % ) . modern financials want returns e.g.canada ( selling its gold ) and alaska permanent fund ( sold all its gold ten years ago and bought stock and bonds ) . in hind sight seems like a good move. an ironic twist is that wayne angle said he thought the feds had actually put a floor under gold - that would be easy for them to do i think. last, it is all of the comodities which are at historical lows, not just gold.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:30
Carmack (@Tantalus and Bully) ID#277224:

Thanks Tantalus Rex-Re. Kemp comments.Confirmation like this is
GOLDEN.
Bully Beef-As is said Just because one is not paranoid does not
mean that someone is NOT out to get you or
us or whoever.

So all considered, anyone like to come out of the closet
and make a prediction as to when
Golden goose is going to 325-350?
We will not hold you to it.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:21
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...tic...tac...toe...ouch!) ID#31868:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe/globehtml/296/West_found_weakened_in_annual_arms_.shtml

http://www.washtimes.com/investiga/investiga1.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-10/24/012r-102498-idx.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:06
Tantalus Rex (@ALL The Sting) ID#295111:
I guess the US bailed out LTCM cause if they didn't, the Domino Effect could have cause financial disaster. The Sting makes a lot of sense to me.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 20:00
Carmack (@SAM) ID#277224:
Thanks for the response and the information.

Sounds like a risky occupation! If the hoards no
longer take Mr. Greenspan quite so seriously, of
course,there are not so many sales, the price goes
up and the shorts come down!!!!!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:58
Tantalus Rex (@ALL - The Sting) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I plucked this out of another gold forum. I think I seen it here before but it is worth reading....

THE STING

Mr. Johnston's Letter to his Sons!
( The Sting & Ponzi Scheme! )

Mr. Johnston is a retired financial analyst in his eighties who has learned and lived
through times most of us only read about. A letter he had written to his sons was
provided to me by one of my Canadian business associates. I was so intrigued with
the letter I contacted Mr. Johnston and had a lengthy phone conversation with him on
this subject. Someone is always number one ( currently the US ) and there are many
who wannabe number one ( the BIS ) as outlined in his letter. It has a tinge of
conspiracy to the rationale but regardless, the underlying facts and scenario are
quite accurate in my opinion. Look back at my previous comments on conspiracy; it
makes no difference whether there is actually a conspiracy or not as the facts speak
for themselves.

* * * * * * * *

Houston, Texas
July 15, 1997

My Dear Sons:

This is about The Sting. This is about the sting that will smash the Great Bull
Market. This is about the sting that will derail the gravy train. The sting is already in
place and its trigger has already been pulled. The sting merely has to unfold. The
public suspects nothing.

A sting is a confidence game in which the victim is deliberately set up to believe that
he cannot lose, that he has a bird's nest on the ground. Then at the last moment the
trap is sprung, and his dreams of riches turn to rags. This sting was made in Japan,
with a strong assist from Switzerland.

To get a better idea of the Swiss Connection, we have to look at the Bank for
International Settlements ( BIS ) in Basel. he BIS is the Central Bank's central bank. It
was formed in 1930 to handle the collection of German war debt following World War
I. Its members are the central banks of the industrial world, such as the Bank of
England, the German Bundesbank, the Federal Reserve Bank, the Bank of Japan,
and so on. It is almost certainly the most powerful financial institution in the world.
Never once in its long history has it ever had to ask for help from any government.

A definite coolness exists between the BIS and the United States. This goes back to
the Bretton Woods Conference in 1944, held to set up the machinery for resuming
world business after World War II. Even though this conference established the
gold-backed U.S. dollar as the only reserve currency, the U.S. did everything it could
to torpedo the BIS and give sole power to the American sponsored International
Monetary Fund. The war was not over in 1944, but the combatants still got together
and defeated this U.S. grab. In the final showdown, the Europeans and Japan never
completely trusted the U.S.

As the years went by, the BIS suspicions were justified. The U.S. began to abuse its
reserve currency role by simply printing dollars. American companies began to buy
control of businesses all over the world. In 1971, President Nixon took the dollar off
the gold standard, and introduced the novel idea of floating currencies. Meanwhile,
the U.S. national debt began to increase each year, until it now stands at about $5.5
Trillion, an astronomic amount that can ever, ever be repaid. It was clear that the U.S.
was out of control.

Along about 1972, I began to spend a great deal of time and effort in studying the BIS
and its agenda. The first thing I found was that although the U.S. had turned its back
on gold, the BIS were aggressively buying it. By 1990, the BIS were by far the largest
holder of gold, with more than one billion ounces. This amounts to an outright corner
on gold.

The next thing I learned is that the BIS are extremely closemouthed. It keeps a low
profile. Its favorite M/O is the sneak attack. They have their own word for this –
coup. Their ideal coup is one where the victim is taken by surprise, and does not
even know what hit him. The BIS tries to leave no fingerprints. Thus their coups often
become perfect crimes.

The third thing I learned was that the BIS had two ironclad objectives. Both were so
bold that they would take your breath away:

1 ) To destroy the Soviet Union, as a threat to world peace.
2 ) To destroy the dollar as the worlds reserve currency.

We all know that the Soviet Union collapsed in 1989. This was done by the BIS
without firing a shot. They simply loaned large sums of money to the Soviets, and
then called the loans. Just a routine castration! A simple foreclosure. This is how they
got the Russian gold.

The second goal, of bringing down the dollar as a reserve currency, has not yet been
reached, but I believe it soon will be. This brings us to the present sting operation.

If you are going to derail the dollar and the Great Bull Market, you better bring a pretty
big checkbook. The new money coming into the mutual funds is running about $20
billion a month. Unless you can top that kind of buying pressure, you don't have a
chance. How in the world do you shoot down an animal that big and that powerful? In
my opinion, the BIS and its Japanese partners have come up with an ingenious
answer. It is big enough to work. It goes like this:

The sting began two years ago, in August 1995, when a rash of bad loans and insider
scandals brought the Japanese banks to their knees. The BIS became alarmed, and
advised the Japanese to lower their loan rates to ½%. This created an enormous gap
between the low Japanese rate and the 6-½% U.S. rate. Into this gap poured
speculators from Japan and everywhere else. The speculators would borrow yen in
huge amounts. They would then sell the yen, and put the proceeds into U.S. paper,
thus making an enormous, guaranteed return. This came to be known as the Yen –
Carry Trade. This yen – carry trade has been going on for over two years, in virtually
unlimited volume. It created a huge demand for U.S. bonds, which in turn sustained a
huge and unprecedented bull market in stocks.

In a similar fashion, the Japanese and others found that they could do the same thing
with gold and this came to be known as the Gold – Carry Trade. The speculators
could borrow gold at about 1%, sell the gold, and then invest the proceeds in U.S.
paper, with a huge guaranteed return. How delightful! How delicious! But how lethal!

I say lethal because this yen – carry, gold – carry Ponzi scheme has created a
potential short squeeze of colossal magnitude. ( Michael Belkin, Strategic
Investments, May 14, 1997 ) Sooner or later, these fantastic leveraged schemes must
be unwound. The gold and the yen which were borrowed and sold short will have to
be bought back; and the bonds that were bought with borrowed money will have to be
sold. The totals involved are probably well over a trillion dollars, or far beyond the
mutual funds yearly take. Anything could trigger the debacle. As long as gold keeps
going down or the yen keeps going down, no problem. As long as bonds keep going
up, no problem. But once gold starts to rise, or the yen starts to rise; or once bonds
start to fall, these huge positions would be unwound. There would be a run for the
exits, and the panic would feed on itself. Margin calls would ruin the leveraged
speculator in short order. There would be no way to stop the carnage. All it will take is
a coup to start the waterfall.

We had the coup on June 24, 1997, though it was only vaguely understood at that
time. The Japanese Prime Minister, Ryutaro Hashimoto, told a luncheon meeting at
Columbia University, I hope the U.S. will engage in efforts and in cooperation
maintain exchange stability so we will not succumb to the temptation to sell off
Treasury bills and switch our funds to gold.

In a matter of minutes, the NYSE collapsed, and the Dow-Jones closed down 192
points in a mini-panic. The victim's saw the trap for the first time! Then the media and
Wall Street fell all over each other trying to control the damage, saying Hashimoto
was misquoted, etc., etc. The various exchanges staged a desperate anti-gold raid,
and soon had gold down to 12-year lows. The Street breathed a sigh of relief and
returned to its summertime siesta.

But the damage was done. Now look at the mess that confronts the big-time
gamblers. We now have gold at new lows and the bonds at new highs. Surely, this is
a speculator's dream come true – well, isn't it? No, this is The Sting. The yen – carry
and the gold – carry is still in place, and they still have to be unwound. The temptation
Hashimoto mentioned now becomes unbearable. The Japanese cannot resist the
chance to sell the bonds near their highs, or the chance to buy gold near its low. Do
you imagine that the bonds will stay high or that gold will stay low? No way! The
unwinding begins to feed on itself, and the 5000 mutual funds and all their friends will
be unable to do a single thing about it. That's what you mean by The Sting.

I have no idea whether Mr. Hashimoto was acting on his own, or whether his words
were part of a larger plan. I know one thing, though. This guy is no innocent babe in
the woods. Before he became the Prime Minister, he was Japan's Finance Minister.
He knew the ropes. He knew the big wheels at BIS. He knew all about yen – carry
and gold – carry. He was telling his people that the game was over. Remember that
these are the friendly little folks who gave us Pearl Harbor and the kamikaze! For just
a fleeting second there, when Hashimoto spoke, the thought flashed across my mind
that the Japs had just won World War II.

Another thought – the Japs could acquire gold in a different way. They could sell our
bonds and buy the EMU, the new European currency that the BIS are sponsoring to
replace the dollar. The EMU is expected to be a package combination of gold and
paper.

So there you have the anatomy of the greatest sting in history. It is real. It is in place.
It cannot be stopped. It can only feed on itself and get more and more desperate as
the shorts are squeezed to death. And best of all for the BIS, the fingerprints on it are
not Swiss – they are Japanese. Call this the Karate Chop.

Think about this, and call me with your reactions. There is more to this story. Stay
tuned.

Much love, Dad

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:51
Bully Beef (It could be that we are all paranoid... but if we all are ...) ID#260119:
then who is trying to get us?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:51
Tantalus Rex (@Carmack - Jack Kemp) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I just saw Jack Kemp interviewed on CNBC a short while ago. He said ( I don't recall the EXACT words ) that Greenspan and Reubin need to bring Gold up to the $325 range. I know that Steve Forbes wants Gold at $350.
Jack Kemp HE FOLLOWS GOLD CLOSELY. He said the US needs commodity prices UP to where they should be.

SO ... if you read between the lines, Jack Kemp knows that the POG is being manipulated. In other words, it is not a true free market system as it should be.

As @Sam says, these just can't come on the air say say things are being rigged. IT WOULD BE LIKE FARTING IN THE BOARD ROOM!!!!! and that's a great quote... gotta remember that one.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:49
sam (@ tantalus Rex: aka == also known as, keep getting my handle changed here.) ID#28882:

Gotta fly now. Will touch back later. sam_a.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:46
sam (@ Tantalus Rex, re ABX short position) ID#28882:

Can't argue with your analysis. My information may be wrong. Will check it out. Thanks.

sam__a.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:45
Tantalus Rex (@SAM) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think what is happenning is that a Hedge Fund ( s ) have sold ABX shares to buy debt. They hope to earn interest and wait for the redemption of the bond or sell the bond as interest go lower to earn a handsome profit. Then they buy back the ABX shares at price equal or lower than when they sold it. SO THEY HOPE.

What does aka mean... I'm slow on acronyms.

It could be that ABX does have convertible debt instruments but they would have had to be issued sometime in 1998, cause the 997 annual report has no mention of convertible debt whatsoever.

So, I still believe that the ABX short position of 22.5 Million shares is a bonafide one. at $20 a share, that's $450 Million bucks of market cap shorted.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:44
sam (@Carmack - re gold market being rigged.) ID#28882:

Greenspan is on the record as saying he would encourage the leasing of gold should the price rise. Leasing gold means borrowing it and selling it spot. That this activity has been and continues to be _the_ major source of gold flows on the sell side.

If you do a search for +greenspan +gold you might be able to turn up the document; it is somewhere on the Fed's web site. The context was Greenspan's congressional testimony re federal regulations of the OTC derivatives market. See for yourself.

sam_a ( aka not sam!, aka plain old sam ) .

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:38
Tantalus Rex (@SAM Re: the ABX Short.) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
OK I have reviewed the 1997 Annual Report to Shareholders of Barrick Gold Corporation.

The Consolidated Statement of Income shows ...
the Basic Earnings Per Share at a loss of .33 for the year.
It also shows ...
the Fully Diluted Earnings Per Share ay a loss of .33 for the year.
If there were some kind of debt instrument that was convertible into ABX shares, the dilutive earnings per share would have been different.

The CICA Handbook Section 3500.30 clearly states that in Canada,
Where potential shares/debt/warrants etc would be materially dilutive, FULLY DILUTIVE EARNINGS PER SHARE should be discolsed.

Under the Liabilities section of the balance sheet, long term debt is at $500 Million. Note 4 says that ABX issued $500 Million on April 22, 1997 of redeemable, NON-CONVERTIBLE, debentures.
NOWHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ABX HAS ANY CONVERTIBLE DEBT.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:34
sam (@ Aurator - re Korean venture) ID#28882:

Will keep you posted. Now almost want to go back. sam__a ( aka not sam!, or now: plain old sam ) .

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:33
Carmack (Gold,Gold,And The Central Banks) ID#277224:
Copyright © 1998 Carmack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am several days new to this forum and find the
postings interesting and informative.
As such I am curious to know for how many weeks or
months the apparent consensus,that gold is being
fixed,has been around?
If the opinions of the members of this forum were taken
as a cross section of investors then the FIX theory
must be quite widespread. ( this would be taken as a positive )
However,At the same time, one must be cognisant of the
possibility that we are all simply very good at rationalization
or being dammed pranoid.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:31
sam (@ Tantalius Rex - re ABX Short position) ID#28882:

Sell ABX, buy ABX convertible debentures is not quite like sell gold, buy Euros or sell yen, buy euros ( i.e. the Yen carry trade. ) In the first case, the value of your assets ( ABX convertible debentures ) is tied to the value of your liability ( ABX stock ) . This is not the case with the latter two examples.

Am I missing something here?

sam_a ( aka not sam, aka sam )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:25
sam (@ aurator - yeah, I am now sam, not not sam) ID#28882:

Dunno what happened. One day I logged on and I was 'sam. Used to be sam__A, aka not sam, but then the switch. It just happened. Where did the original sam go? Anybody heard from him?

All very confusing,

sam ( aka not sam, aka sam__a. )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:20
aurator () ID#25490:
sam
I hadn't realised you were not sam. Life is confusing. Turtles too? Hmm, keep me posted brother, perhaps we can do some more trading?

Everyone I've shown piggie to has also loved it. Only one who hasn't seen it is Beautiful Jewel.

Earl
I am long overdue to email to you, duude, it shall happen soon...


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:20
Tantalus Rex (@SAM) ID#295111:
Ok, I'm going to pull out the Annual statements of ABX and see what the O/S shares are including the convertible debentures.

Talk to you later...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:18
Tantalus Rex (@SAM Re: ABX) ID#295111:
Ok, but I believe the convertible debenture forms part of the O/S shares of ABX. I think that's what they call the diluted shares of the company.

This technique is just like the gold carry trade or the yen for US dollars carry trade.

ie

borrow gold, sell gold and invest in bonds, buy gold back as bonds expire

OR Borrow Yen, sell yen to buy US bonds, then buy yen back as bonds expire

BUT THIS STRATEGY CAN BACKFIRE AND I CONSIDER IT A HIGH RISK.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:17
sam (@Tantalus Rex - A 10% short position is huge) ID#28882:

Agreed. But if ABX is 10% short, think of the bullion market itself! Suppose there is 8000 tons short; this is _25%_ ( !!! ) of CB reserves. Now _that_ is a short position!

sam_a.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:15
Gollum (Another kind of charity) ID#43352:
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101w.htm

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:14
Savage (Ignatious, thank you. and...) ID#290202:
I don't know about 401K implications. Are there any CPA's out there?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:13
Tantalus Rex (ABX Short) ID#295111:
I gut feel as to why ABX has been picked on is that it contributes so much to the XAU in comparison to the other gold stocks in that index.

I guess they need to keep the XAU index down as part of the derivative trading planning.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:11
Hedgehog (gathering attractors to let loose for all to experience ...I hold out my palm...sheeple laugh ) ID#39857:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
.....mother nature sighs.....logic aint logic in the present systems that form our society. spin becomes more powerful for good men than it does
for the defenders of old systems ....

More Artificial Intelligence, Neural Networks, and Chaos Theory in Finance http://www.sigma-research.com/bookshelf/rtbooks3.htm

Chaos and Business
http://www.cio.com/archive/enterprise/041598_qanda_content.html

The Man from Chaos...Inventor of floppy
http://www.fastcompany.com/online/01/chaos.html

Chaos and non-linear dynamics in the Financial Markets
http://www.investec.com/morchaos.html

Chaos Theory and Market Reality, Part One
http://rb-trading.com/article4.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:10
sam (@ Tantalus Rex - re Barrick short position) ID#28882:

There is an outstanding Barrick convertable debenture issue floating around out there. The ( large ) short position is in some part due to folks buying the debentures and selling the stock, thereby securing the high yield coupon while minimizing exposure to fluctuations in stock price. Not as racy ( bullish ) as some might initially think.

sam_a;.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:08
Tantalus Rex (@SAM Re: ABX Short Position) ID#295111:
I did a quick calculation with my calculator.......

Outstanding shares of Barrick Gold is at 375 Million.

Since 40% of them is held by insiders who never sell, that leaves
225 Millions shares that trade worldwide.

Barrick shares have been shorted on the TSE at 22.5 Million
( who knows how much it's been shorted on the NYSE and elswhere worldwide )

22.5 divided by 225 gives 10%.

So, my estimate of 20% is totaly off base ......

STILL, I THINK A 10% SHORT ON THIS STOCK IS HUGE!!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 19:04
sam (aurator - glad everything checks out) ID#28882:
Copyright © 1998 sam/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Our Korean counterpart still has not signed off, meaning that another trip may be in the works. If so, I tempted to bring over, say, a 5 oz bar and see if I can work something out with a fabricator there. The response I got to the pig here was tremendous - no has ever seen 0.9999 jewellry and when told that it is made of gold, they become kind of awstruck. Coming back with a pocket full of 4-9 cows, turtles and pigs ( I esp. like the turltes ) , and having to pay duty only on the fabrication costs ( I brought the gold over! ) , would be a venture I might explore.

cheers,

sam_a.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:59
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Charts) ID#105135:
Copyright © 1998 Schippi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Charts:
Six Year http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpmlt.htm
120 market days http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm120.htm
30 market days http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm30.htm
10 days Hourly http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm
Overhead Resistance http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/gldresit.htm

I give thanks for the New Math, as you could not bail out
Russia, Asia & South America with the Old math!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:55
Tantalus Rex (@sam) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thx for the insight. I just signed on and saw your post re: EMBRY.

I just checked the Financial Post. Narrick is shorted at 22 Million shares as at Oct 15, 1998. That's an increase of 6 Million over the last quote.

I've read somewhere that 40% of Barrick is held by insiders who never sell. As an estimate, I think then that of the ABX shares that are readily traded, 20% of them have been shorted. That's HUMUNGUS.

Would you know who is shorting BARRICK.

P.S. Guys like EMBRY, KEMP, FORBES etc have to be supported by us on forums like this if the media does not do it's job FAIRLY.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:45
aurator () ID#25490:
sam?
see my 18:32.
I'm as happy as a pig in shit.

Compgeek
excellent suggestion. Any others?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:42
aurator () ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Bugal
Downunder we don't rat on our mates, no matter what mummy or daddy or teachers threaten us with.
Thinking about your reply, I recognise another cultural difference between thee and me. We have several privacy statutes that protect our privacy. Of course, they are far from perfect, but I suspect our notions of privacy are quite different from yours.
I agree there are no absolutes in moral judgements, but sometimes it is better to have a lesser evil than a greater one. The Golden Thread of our justice system is that it is better that a dozen 'guilty' men go free than one innocent man is hanged.

The anonymous tip-off of wrong-doing is given very little weight, and like other countries, we have had our excesses..
We err on the side of protection of privacy.
Thanks for your comments, always erudite, always thought-provoking.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:40
CPO@AU (All; nice little weekend read on Fed Rothschilds Rockerfellers) ID#329186:
Inc clown errect comments well worth a read

go gold

cpo

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:40
CompGeek (@aurator Brass Candlestick Collection) ID#343259:
Well, since it is a *collection*, you could offer to install part of the collection at her place, and still consider it part of your collection. That way, both can enjoy it, but she can't sell it.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:39
sam (aurator?) ID#28882:


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:32
aurator (A moral dilemma over golden coloured Brass candlesticks....) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Eddie
The first time BJ's mother ( BJM ) was introduced to me, after BJ & I had been together for 19 months, she turned on her heels and walked out the door without saying a word. It took many years of patience and kindness before she let me into her house, and later still, offered me a bowl of rice. Now we talk about cooking and plucking duck, how to bake Moon cakes, and the significance of visiting grand-parents' graves on the appropriate commemoration days. BJM has just decided she wants a couple of my candlesticks - I have a collection of dozens and dozens of brass candlesticks, wierd, I know, but it's my wierdness, now BJM wants me to break up my collection to give her a couple. Now, it's not like I've not got enough to spare, it's just that I have bought them over many years and in many countries, each has a story....should I give her a couple? What say you all to this dilemma?

Pig is just great! All checks out! Darn thing really is cute, all I can do not to give it to BJ before xmas...now she wants a 1/10 panda...

The best place for gold is around the neck of a beautiful dame.
Crusty, I think I got the quote wrong. I've not been able to find The Treasure of the Sierra Madre yet.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:25
codeman (Hatt @ Chas) ID#159145:
Sorry can only post one at a time. Take care.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:23
tolerant1 (Ersel, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#31868:
the clocks go back tonight...yup...uh huh...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:23
codeman (Hatt @ Chas) ID#159145:
Here's the last announcements from Claimstaker. Looks real good.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:19
BUGal (@ Aurator...) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Re your 00:00.....well, I agree in principal that confidences and expectation of privacy is important. But there are many exceptions to this rule.

To use a recent example...my son promised his friend he would not pass on information about a certain drug use problem. WHen I developed suspicions about said problem, I pressed him to divulge his knowledge. He did so reluctantly and under protest. However, what principle was more important? My opportunity to help his friend bu disussing the matter with him and his parents, possibly assisting him not to delve into a life of misery, or the principle of confidence? I could get hundreds more examples that are not anecdotal.

There's nothing sacred about internet a mail.

Thanks to you and Skinny for the correct quote, and author. Seen it many times, but couldnt recall it with precision.

LGB

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:18
Ersel (Hey...Merkans) ID#230376:

do we turn our clocks back tonite?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:16
Ersel (mothersinlaws......) ID#230376:

Auracious...try killing her with kindness.......it drives 'em crazy..........then have her commited to a rubber room.... ( gilded, of course ) ... ( ; - }

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:08
IGNATIUS (HOLDING CERTIFICATES) ID#381342:
Although slightly less convenient--especially when short term trading, I have favored holding my certificates ( At least since had to wait several months to get my funds and certs.after Goodbody and co. folded in mid 60's ) However IMHO that system has us by short hairs on 401k,IRA's IRA Rollovers etc.Does anyone know how to get possession of certs. in such accts. without incurring immediate tax liability?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:08
sam (Aurator - did you get your pig checked out? ) ID#28882:

If so, was the weight and grade to spec?

sam_a.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:06
aurator () ID#25490:
Eddie
Hi, Not only is Spring in the air, but so also is Beautiful Jewel's mother. I have to keep jocular to prevent myself from strangling her :- )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:05
sam (@Tantalus Rex re Embry's Comments (Oct 23, 19:46)) ID#28882:
Copyright © 1998 sam/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have spoken at length with John Embry. He is, in person, ( far ) more bullish than his public statements would suggest. As I understand it, he fully ascribes to the Gold is being rigged school of thought and would feel quite at home with some of the more conspiratorial-minded members of this forum.

You ask: Why can't he come right and and say this? Why do you have to read between the lines? I answer: Because it wouldn't be polite. Embry _works_ for the establishment -- Royal Bank of Canada -- a junior member of the cabal. To come right out and say: You guys are rigging the markets would be like farting in the boardroom; it is just not done. As it is, those with a more refined ear ( i.e. the big money ) will understand exactly what he is saying and ( hopefully ) act accordingly.

A postscript: The managers at Embry's fund learned of Greenspan's now famous let's rig the market testimony through the efforts of this forum. Someone posted the reference here and it was in turn forwarded ( indirectly ) to Embry. In other words, Kitco is supplying research to one of the biggest precious metals funds in the world.

sam_A.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 18:01
Ersel (auracious.........) ID#230376:

you are sounding jocular this eve........your spring is in the air? gooday from the chilly Midwest...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:52
aurator () ID#25490:
Cosmo
Do you have any interest in V-EAG. We would expect you to declare it, if you have. Thanks.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:51
Savage (Highrise --- you still there) ID#290202:



Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:49
aurator () ID#25490:
GD
While I think Blanchard has the best Newsletter, he's still been awfully wrong for most of the time.

I'm always interested the way the newsletter writers all feature each other. You know, Bishop and Peutz appear in Blanchard's, and vice versa.



Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:48
Savage (?) ID#290202:
Do you guys recommend holding your own securities ( share certificates ) on stocks that you
intend to keep long-term, and have the brokerage act as a shell account?
Would this be safer in case of some kind of disaster or brokerage failure?


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:45
George (Kitco slow?) ID#433172:
Copyright © 1998 George/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Is it me or has Kitco slowed down?

What to do about stock certicates looks like the next question. I'm not comfortable with brokerage action in general, and I did'nt read the fine print when I opened the account, I probably would have stopped right there if I had.

Esoteric-- Welcome to a topical paradise

Interesting question? Would you rather have a loose cannon like w2k in the future, or would you rather have the forces and powers that be just grind out thier agenda?

If Mr. Pollard is released will he be giev the knights cross? Maybe even the knights double-cross?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:42
Gold Dancer (Slight correction) ID#377196:
Harmony's mines are Y2K compliant, payroll to be this December.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:42
aurator () ID#25490:
Bugal
I take your
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke ( 1729.. 1797 )
As supporting my 00.00 today. Thanks.

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q4/1998_10/981024.000057.auratoree.htm

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:36
aurator (footie......moolahs loosers........) ID#25490:
lefty
You're on. just tried to upload an image of a NZ$10 note, but can't get access to kitco's server right now.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:31
Savage (HATT) ID#290202:
no, we have some Golden Knight ( GKRVF )


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:30
Gold Dancer (Gold Mining/Y2K) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gary North's article about gold mining stopping because miners may
not want to send their people down several thousand feet into the
earth is pure bull. This is an obvious reference to SA gold mines.

Since SA gold mines are the most undervalued in the world I would
not trust ANY source which attempts to disparage these mines. Or attempt
to keep you from buying them.

Second, both Harmony and Durban have said that they are Y2K compliant
now.

I don't trust Gary North any more that Casey, Bishop, or Blanchard.
These people know that there is only a small element out there which
wants to invest in gold etc. Therefore, they use us to trade against!!!

I caught Bishop in a couple of lies and never trusted him again.


Thanks, GD

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:26
The Hatt (Savage/ Did you say you owned stock in WKR?) ID#294232:
If so please give me an update on your findings. You must of enjoyed the move this week!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:24
Cosmo (CC - EAG fails to notify the public!!! (Sorry for the delayed response!!)) ID#342261:
Copyright © 1998 Cosmo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
THESE ARE AMAZING RESULTS COMING FROM THE LAKE VICTORIA GOLDFIELDS!!!

CHECK OUT V-EAG ON THIS WEBSITE: http://www.gorilla.net.au/presentation/eagc/index.html

SET YOUR BOOKMARKS BECAUSE THIS URL IS HARD TO FIND!!!

PULL THE ANNUAL REPORT OFF OF SEDAR TO COMPLETE THE PICTURE.

Carlson has all the companies news releases or stockwatch.

LOOK THEM UP ON THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE AND UPDATE THE NEWS FROM CARLSON. IT WOULD APPEAR THE AUSTRALIAN MANAGEMENT HAS NOT QUITE FIGURED OUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE INTERNET TO NORTH AMERICAN INVESTORS.



EAST AFRICA GOLD CORPORATION ANNOUNCES INTERIM DRILLING RESULTS FROM BUCKREEF AND KITONGO PROSPECTS IN TANZANIA
BALCATTA, WESTERN AUSTRALIA--

Interim results from a drilling programme currently in progress on
the Buckreef and Kitongo prospects are announced. The directors are
encouraged by the results to date and the remaining programme
continues at a steady pace.

Highlights to date from Buckreef and Kitongo.


First four holes out of twenty-eight holes from Buckreef returned:

BMRCD185 18.25m @ 15.41 g/t Au from 118-136.25m
BNMCD186 16.30m @ 31.01 g/t Au from 127.3-143m.
BMRCD188 22.30m @ 4.53 g/t Au from 127-149.3m.
BMRCD189 5.00m @ 4.07 g/t Au from 157-162m.
7.00m @ 2.21 g/t Au from 173-180m.
12.00m @ 2.52 g/t Au from 191-203m.


Main Zone at Kitongo:

KTRC089 51m @ 3.70 g/t Au from 0-51m.
KTRC097 32m @ 9.07 g/t Au from 9-41m.
KTRC098 32m @ 3.20 g/t Au from 0-32m.
KTRC100 35m @ 2.74 g/t Au from 0-35m.
KTRC101 6m @ 4.67 g/t Au from 0-6m.
22m @ 3.15 g/t Au from 21-43m

Full results to date are detailed in Tables 1 & 2.


[signed]
Klaus Eckhof
Director for Exploration and Authorised Signatory

1. BUCKREEF PROJECT
An RC / diamond tail drilling programme commenced at Buckreef in
early September.

The programme is designed to test the main Buckreef Mineralised
Shear zone at a vertical depth between 50 and 120m underneath the
existing oxide resource. Previous drilling by Kinross in 1995
included relatively few deeper drillholes, most of which
intersected economic grades. The 1998 programme includes 24
drillholes for approximately 5000m. This will test a 280m strike
length of the mineralized zone ( plan attached ) .

Results

Drilling commenced on Section 2120N at the southern end of the
proposed programme. The first result was 18.25m @ 15.41g/t in
BMRCD185 ( 118-136.3m ) . This leaves a high potential for high grade
mineralisation further to the south. Moving northward, the second
hole BMRCD186 returned 16.3m @ 31.01g/t ( 127.7-143m ) . This
remarkable result is higher than any previous drilling at Buckreef
and suggests 'super high grade' shoots may be present.

Results for the other two holes BMRC187 and BMRCD188 entered stopes
from previous mining. However both holes still returned significant
grades. BMRCD188 returned 22.3m @ 4.53g/t outside of the stope,
suggesting significant mineralisation has been left behind even in
areas previously thought to have been extracted.

The next two holes to the north have been completed and a zone of
mineralisation similar to the first holes was intersected. Assays
should be at hand in the following week.

TABLE 1: SUMMARY RESULTS FOR BUCKREEF RC / DIAMOND DRILLING 9/10/99
===================================================================
Hole North East Dec Az Depth
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD185 2120 1090 -62 degrees 270 degrees 144.2
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD186 2140 962 -60 degrees 90 degrees 150.6
------------------------------------------------------------------
inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD187 2160 1070 -60 degrees 270 degrees 81
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD188 2160.6 970 -60 degrees 90 degrees 150
------------------------------------------------------------------
inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD189 2160 955 -60 degrees 90 degrees 204
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------
inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------


Hole Intersection Width Grade Remarks
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD185 118-136.25 18.25 15.41 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD186 127.7-143 16.3 31.01 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
127.7-139 11.3 42.4 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD187 Hole Abandoned RC hole - hit stope
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD188 127-149.3 22.3 4.53 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
143-149.3 6 10.97 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
BMRCD189 157-162 5 4.07 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
173-180 7 2.21 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
191-203 12 2.52 Core Intersection
------------------------------------------------------------------
191-195 4 4.41 Core Intersection
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Azimuth relevant in grid north.

Commentary

It is clear that the results to date suggest some very high grades
and significant widths of mineralisation exist at depth at
Buckreef. Also of note is that a significant zone of grade
depletion appears to be present on some sections at around 30-40m
depth. It is possible that this represents a partially leached
zone, and that the primary mineralisation ( mostly untested in
previous drilling ) is of much higher grade. A similar scenario is
present at Bulyanhulu where the top 50m of mineralisation is
partially leached and sporadic in character. It was partly as a
result of this that Bulyanhulu was explored for 20 years without
the true significance of its potential being realised.

2. Kitongo PROJECT

A programme of RC and RAB drilling is currently in progress on the
Kitongo Prospect. The program follows on from a period of detailed
geological mapping, structural studies and rock chip sampling
earlier in 1998 which has provided focussed targets for drill
testing.

RC Drilling

Approximately 4000m of RC drilling has been completed to date out
of a proposed programme of 6500m. The RC drilling is designed to
test extensions of the known mineralisation, as well as confirming
the nature and continuity of mineralisation within the previously
defined Kitongo Main Zone. In addition a small reconnaissance
programme is planned at Kitongo Hill, some 4km NW of the Main Zone
where mapping and rock chip sampling have identified a large and
potentially high surface anomaly.

Results

Results for the programme to date are very encouraging. Infill
drilling in the Main Zone has returned some very high grades that
will significantly enhance the overall grade and contained ounces
of the current resource. Best results to date include 51 m @ 3.7g/t
( 0-51 m ) including 16m @ 7.78g/t ( 35-51m ) in KTRCO89 and 32m @
9.07g/t ( 9-41m ) in KTRC097.

Two holes testing a RAB anomaly some 150m west of the Main Zone
have identified a new parallel zone of mineralisation. KTRC086
returned 11m % 2.6g/t ( 14-25m ) and KTRC087 returned 18m @ 1.89g/t
( 50-68m ) . Full results to date are detailed in Table 2.

Current RC holes are concentrating on testing the Northern
Extension of the Main Zone, where RAB drilling has defined an
additional 400m of strike with +1g/t grades near surface.
Significant intersection ( greater than 20m ) of gossan and
sulphide are reported. Assay results are awaited.


RAB Drilling

A programme of greater than or equal to 8000m of RAB drilling is
underway. This programme is planned to test for further extensions
of the Main Zone mineralisation beyond the current extent of RC
drilling. Significant new targets parallel to the Main Zone
mineralisation awe now becoming apparant from surface mapping and
sampling and these are also to be tested. Results are expected in
the coming weeks.

TABLE 2: KITONGO PROJECT
RC DRILLING RESULTS TO 8th OCTOEBER 1998

Hole East North AZ Dec
--------------------------------------------------------
KTRC073 3850 10555 270 degrees -60 degrees

KTRC074 3850 10495 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC075 3850 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC076 3850 10395 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC077 3850 10350 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC078 3850 10295 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC079 3900 10495 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC080 3900 10550 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC081 3900 10690 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC082 3900 10625 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC083 3950 10550 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC084 3950 10475 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC085 3950 10375 270 degrees -60 degrees


KTRC086 4050 10250 270 degrees -60 degrees

KTRC087 4050 10300 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC088 4000 10545 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC089 4025 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
inc.

KTRC090 3975 10460 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
KTRC091 3975 10400 270 degrees -60 degrees

inc.

KTRC092 4000 10600 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC093 4050 10650 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC094 4050 10600 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC095 4100 10630 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC096 4100 10525 270 degrees -60 degrees


KTRC097 4075 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
KTRC098 4075 10425 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.

KTRC099 4075 10500 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC100 4125 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
KTRC101 4175 10450 270 degrees -60 degrees

KTRC102 4175 10500 270 degrees -60 degrees
inc.
inc.
KTRC103 4125 10500 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC104 4150 10630 270 degrees -60 degrees
KTRC105 4150 10600 270 degrees -60 degrees


Hole Hole Inter- Width Grade
Depth ( m ) section ( m ) ( m ) ( g/t Au )
--------------------------------------------------------
KTRC073 99 8-12 4 2.03
22-25 3 2.26
KTRC074 90 5-8 3 1.32
KTRC075 93 1-2 1 1.08
KTRC076 90 0-8 8 1.77
KTRC077 81 0-7 7 1.27
KTRC078 69 3-7 4 2.79
KTRC079 90 0-4 4 1.80
KTRC080 93 NSR
KTRC081 87 71-72 1 1.38
KTRC082 51 1-3 2 1.64
KTRC083 90 59-60 1 1.63
KTRC084 78 0-1 1 1.01
KTRC085 72 5-6 1 2.62
30-36 6 2.18
45-46 1 9.08
KTRC086 60 14-25 11 2.60
45-46 1 1.13
KTRC087 72 50-68 18 1.89
KTRC088 92 NSR
KTRC089 81 0-51 51 3.70
2-10 8 5.68
35-51 16 7.78
66-75 9 0.88
KTRC090 63 0-38 38 1.46
0-1 1 11.20
KTRC091 60 0-60 60 0.80
3-13 10 1.15
11-13 2 3.02
55-60 5 1.49
KTRC092 93 NSR
KTRC093 99 NSR
KTRC094 93 NSR
KTRC095 90 66-71 5 1.69
KTRC096 102 0-12 12 1.99
79-86 7 1.41
99-100 1 1.25
KTRC097 51 9-41 32 9.07
9-30 21 13.20
KTRC098 39 0-32 32 3.20
4-17 13 5.69
37-40 3 1.0
KTRC099 60 50-51 1 1.14
KTRC100 42 0-35 35 2.74
12-35 23 3.55
KTRC101 60 0-6 6 4.67
21-43 22 3.15
KTRC102 48 12-48 36 1.55
14-34 20 2.17
29-34 5 3.25
KTRC103 58 0-28 28 1.12
KTRC104 84 NSR
KTRC105 84 56-66 10 2.08

Note: NSR = No Significant Result, Azimuth relevant to local grid
( Grid North = 040 magnetic ) .
All assaying was performed with a standard sample preparation and
fire assay techniques ( including checks and standards ) at a
reputable internationally approved laboratory ( SGS ) in Mwanza,
Tanzanin.

EAST AFRICA GOLD CORP
BUCKREEF PROJECT
RC / DD DRILLING
September / October 1998
***Map***

EAST AFRICA GOLD CORP
KITONGO PROJECT
RC DRILLING
September / October 1998
***Map***

EAST AFRICA GOLD CORP
Ground Floor, 30 Ledgar Road, Balcatta, Western Australia 6021
Telephone +61 8 9240 1622
Facsimile +61 8 9240 1743
Email:eastaf@ca.com.au


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:23
lefty kiwi (savage) ID#32176:
re leverage ..... i know what you mean but I seriously doubt the other side of the contract will be in a position to meet their obligations in a scenario whereby the goldbugs are the winners .
If we ( goldbugs and cultists ) are right about gold you won't need leverage the POG will be so high in relationship to all other prices

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:21
The Hatt (VSE starting to heat up!) ID#294232:
Copyright © 1998 The Hatt/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As an avid VSE player it appears that things are starting to heat up with
a few resource stocks starting to move. This long drawn out bear has bottomed and we are about to see the interest in Junior Resource Companies come alive. As a result very few Companies are actively working on projects which tells me that when this thing breaks out the stock of these handful will blast off to the point that they will all be over bought far past the point their fudamentals would justify! As far as area plays are concerned Nevada is starting to heat up! White Knight Resources is waiting for assays on their first three holes and if one was to listen to the market action this week someone thinks they are positive! In the event that they get good results this stock will fly! I donot own any shares as I prefer to wait for the results. If they get the results keep an eye on Claimstaker and Coral gold as they are in the immediate area! Claimstaker has just announced that they will start drilling on Monday! They plan on drilling 15000 feet which is a nice size program. Coral Gold has a JV with Placer and their drilling is to begin shortly! These Companies are drilling along a trend with proven mine making geology and the costs to mine are some of the lowest in NA. The first area play that could pull the VSE out of its slump? My guess is NEVADA! Does anyone know of any other Juniors involved in this area? If so please post the names and background if you can. Thanks!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:15
Savage (lefty kiwi: acknowledged. got gold, need leverage.) ID#290202:

5 more?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:13
lefty kiwi (Aurator......) ID#32176:
I would not gamble away oa ounce of precious ......Fiat money however is a different matter $10 Kiwi it is ....OTAGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LD

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:11
Will (Interesting Pointer) ID#240248:
Gary North is a good source of articles, hes a bit of a fatalist but I'll put up with his attitude in exchange for his information. Try this one:

http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2917

Its bound to put a smile on any gold bugs face.

So I was thinking that we are now into a temporary period of oversupply that may normally take a couple of years to correct itself. However, Y2K may abruptly correct this oversupply problem by putting everything into serious undersupply.

Will

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:08
aurator () ID#25490:
lefty
Otago will win, and although my instinct says you got the right margin, I'll take by less than 12. Shall we put a one oz silver coin on it? You can take your pick between a NZ fantail 1oz or 1 US Peace dollar, which is, of course, les than 1 oz. We got a deal?

I got a mother in law here who's badgering me to marry her daughter and raise a crop of little aurators...I'm too young for chains....


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 17:06
lefty kiwi (Savage) ID#32176:
My vote is to dispose of all securities and hold physical gold,
I am not even interseted in gold mining shares , but concede that these because of revaluation to market of reserves and profitability could possibly give a much greater return than my portfolio
But i am a signed up member of the believers of the Y2K cult

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:58
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

Aurator-- was just wondering.


Chief Seattle

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/fake.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:57
lefty kiwi (Aurator) ID#32176:
Otago to beat Waikato by 15 points at the Brook today ?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:57
Savage (I need 6 answers for a quorum; to the following question:) ID#290202:
Do you ( guys ) recommend holding your own securities ( in case of disaster ) .

IE: Should you have your brokerage send you the stock certificates ( of

the stocks you intend to hold long-term ) and continue to act as a shell account

Pros and Cons?


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:55
aurator (Other favourite things? Rocky Mountain High in Co...) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dave in Co
Yes, it was a marvellous book. I may relate other stories as I remember them. It was part of a private study I did 20 odd years ago about Cargo Cults that branched out into the fringes of modern popular western beliefs. Like the origin of Mormonism, and Anabaptists...

As to suggesting that Y2K preparedness is out on the lunatic fringe? Well, I confess, I have a haircut in readiness for Y2K myself. But, the more I read, the more it resembles a cult. There is an in-belief and an out-belief. Those who are in are trying to persuade those who are out that they should be in. It has a denigrating name for those who are out Pollyanas.
It has its prophets, it has its publicity and meetings. Just that these are electronic meetings where the in-group bear witness to their beliefs. It has its Prophecy TEOTWAWKI and it has its rationalisation--computers are everywhere.
It even has a date to focus on, just like George Garvey.
Yup, Y2K is a Cargo Cult. Only rather than a Utopian Cargo Cult. We got Distopia! Cute eh?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:51
HighRise (Nobel Peace Prize In The Works For Liar Clinton?) ID#401460:

He is the Man!

European governments praised President Clinton for forging the interim peace deal.

French President Jacques Chirac said Clinton's efforts ``renewed the dialogue in favor of a just and durable peace.''
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101a.htm

HighRise

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:49
HighRise (Jack) ID#401460:
Can a broker in trouble pledge a clients fully paid and unencumbered securities?

Yes, I posted here a week or so ago that everyone should read the disclaimers on their brokers reports.

Prudential states very clearly, IMO, that they are pledgeing their clients securities in various investment relationships with others.

HighRise

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:44
Gollum (@Jack) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Foreign money going into freshly minted US Treasuries becoming dead money makes sense, what about foreign money going into a five year US Treasury with 3 years left to maturity and bought on wall street?

Nope. that money stays live. At least it stays live on Wall Street, if not back in Japan. Of course, that treasury killed it's share two years earlier.

Coupon interest eventually gets soaked up by fiscal policy ( taxes ) if the budget is balanced, or becomes newly printed money if there is deficit spending.

Last year, I believe, we ran a surplus over spending. More dead dollars.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:42
aurator () ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
2BRO2B?
Would be most obliged if you could assist me. What is uplifting about trick or treat?

As to things positive. Well, I've always admired the US Constitution. Ford Mustangs. Chief Seattle. Jim Beam. O Henry. Steinbeck. Guthrie, Woody & Arlo. Tobacco. The Blues. Hunter Thompson. A Hundred other merkan novelists, poets and songwriters from Gershwin to Hendrix, Ginsberg to Whistler. The Gold Rushes. The Western. A thousand hollywood films. Apple Computers. The Chord Duisenberg. The Chicago Eight. Annie Oakley. Lease Lend. Meteor Crater. The Summer of Love. The Texas Book Depositary. Dead Man's Hand. Surfing Music. Astounding Science Fiction. Crescent City Jazz. Tornado Alley. The Gettysburg Address. The Apollo Missions. Chewing gum. Coca cola. Daniel Boone. Fort Knox. The Statue of Liberty.

Hey, this is fun, perhaps we could make a song out of it.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:41
HighRise (If you want Peace Keep Your Wallets Open - Arafat) ID#401460:
I
POERTSCHACH, Austria ( AP ) - Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat expressed his ``unending'' thanks Saturday to European leaders for backing up the Mideast peace process with generous financial aid - and asked them to keep their wallets open.
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101a.htm

HighRise


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:38
Dave in CO (@Aurator) ID#229141:
Sounds like an informative book about the lunatic fringe of society. Since the computer people ( who are probably the most familiar with the problem ) are the most concerned, are you calling us the lunatic fringe? If you are, no offense here. Just reading this forum already puts me way out of the mainstream.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:34
skinny (BuGal) ID#28994:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke ( 1729.. 1797 ) .

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:31
NTEOTWAWKI (@cherokee) ID#390337:
un-wakin-able % )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:28
Jack (The financial system seems more dangerous than YK2.......) ID#254288:

............Or, is YK2 gonna take the Rap..............?
Over at Vronsky's Golden-Eagle site an article by Bill Murphy is rather scary in its closing section as relating to Prudential Securities.

Can a broker in trouble pledge a clients fully paid and unencumbered securities?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:25
Caper (America-outdated term) ID#300202:
We r now a global village. Had some Merkans in my establishment awhile back & wanted their perspective on Y2K. One holds up his hand & says We're just farmers from Pennsylvania. Okay!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:23
aurator (The sound of drums----the beat of a Cargo Cult----Tum Tum Tedum Dum, Tum Tum Tedum Dum, ) ID#25490:
-
Man
Reading this Y2K survivalist stuff reminds me of a book I read some time ago called John Frum, he no come. It was a book about Millenial cults, that is cults of people who foresee the Millenium -- as in TEOTWAWKI.

It began with a study of the common features of Cargo Cults. Continued with a comparison of the wierder religous movements and talked also of the flying saucer cults of the 50's and 60's. You know, when your next-door neighbour, George Garvey suddenly had a vision as he was washing the dishes that prompted him to drop a plate and declare that his real name was Eohippus and he was an Intergalactic Emissary from the Planet Tarkel. His mission was to warn earth of the impending arrival of the Great Fleet of Linxia and the earthmen must forego their warlike ways, form one world government and join the rest of the Galaxie creature in a Council of Peace.

Eohippus gathers believers around him. They gather more believers. Eohippus pick up another message from The Great Fleet on his Photronic Gallactic Telephone that looks to you and me like a ball-point pen---The Great Fleet will arrive next Thursday and 10 am and all believers must gather on The Sugar Hill Mountains in readiness for the Council of Peace to pass its awful judgement on a world that won't renounce war.

The dread Thursday arrives, Eohippus and his legion of followers don their specialised survival gear purchased from the Amish Supplies Store and gather at the mountain top.

As 10 am approaches the air is electric with excitement. What do they look like these spacemen? Will they wear rayguns of Peace? Will they eradicate all the badness from the Earth? Will they kill all the non-believers as it was prophesied?

10 am passes and the crowd checks their watches. By 11 am the crowd starts to melt away, some mutter that George Garvey is a fraud. But,wait ! Marvel of Marvels! At 11.15 the Photronic Gallactic Telephone rings, and Eohippus tells the remaining believers that their faith has saved the world, and they can all go home but their faith must not waver in the future.

Eohippus goes back to washing the dishes.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 16:02
BUGal (@ EJ....) ID#206235:
I understand your thoughtful reply to my question. But I do not see the righteous outpouring of wrath from Just men here at Kitco, being directed where it should. We've often seen the quote here at Kitco...The only thing required for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing.....

IMHO, we have ample historical evidence that this is a good quote for us to remember.

Even thye lowliest of vermin sometimes require our attention in pest control duties, no matter how little respect we have for the vermin themselves.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 15:59
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

Aurator-- is there anything that springs to mind
from its contents of a positive nature with respect
to the United States.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 15:58
Cyclist (info overload?) ID#339274:
http://www.smotass.net/bookmark.html
some true nuggets for everybody

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 15:58
BUGal (@ gwyz.... Halloween candy and Y2K) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Not a bad analogy BUT...with Halloween candy you're just out a couple bucks. With Y2K preparations ( as recommended on this forum and all the G & D sites ) ...you're talking about tying up a rather substantial portion of your net worth.

I'm not talking the minimal outlays for generators and freeze dried food, and such, but the more extremist views we see here frequently about the collapse of all currency's as a medium of exchange. Which of course means that if you believe such, it requires the full conversion of your assets to precious metals..... yikes! Some here even recommend selling your home, and moving to the sticks to get away from cities ( where most of us are gainfully employed ) yikes again!

In deciding what is appropriate re insurance one must decide whether the premium paid, is worth the cost of offsetting the risk. In the case of Y2K...most folks recommendations put the premiums FAR higher than I would pay....

Furthermore, the idea that Gold will somehow become a medium of echange for goods and services, due to the total breakdown of commerce on 1/1/2000...is such an absurd bunch of alarmist nonsense
as to become laughable! One might as well believe the Moon walks of the Apollo astronauts were a fraud!

IMHO ...as always....

LGB

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 15:53
aurator (I can't figure out) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
where is everybody? Is it a holiday in Merka? I suppose the question Have you got a power cut? is too obviously redundant.


gwyz
The power of merkan *television as a cultural weapon should not be ignored. Our children now dress up and go treat and tricking or is it trick and treating? And they call it part of their childhood.

This bizarre ritual of passage was unknown here in my youth, which wasn't •that• long ago. Anyway, our kids dress up as vampires and ghosts, and practice the art of blackmail just like all you merkans did when you were little.

Ain't it cute?


*Hands up those who knew that television weren't a merkan invention.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 15:49
James (Dabchick@Thanks for your effort in calculating your) ID#252150:
fiat proof POG indicator.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 15:18
Jack (On second thought......but still confused) ID#254288:

Some of that foreign money must be used for debt rollover or as make up for infrastructure spending that taxes don't cover, or government programs, or an IMF $18 billion handout which is like taking candy away from the taxpayer and giving it to Daddy Bigbucks.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:37
Jack (I can't figure it out) ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Foreign money going into freshly minted US Treasuries becoming dead money makes sense, what about foreign money going into a five year US Treasury with 3 years left to maturity and bought on wall street?
I often wonder if the coupon interest heads back overseas, or is reinvested in the US.

Talking about this dead money from foreign sources; could that be the reason for high European unemployment and the Japanese slowdown in spending?

Or is Japanese tightness the result of the long term burn out in their equities and real estate markets and the high prices for certain items that are relatively cheap elsewhere, but brought higher in Japan because of a status symbol is attached.

Then we have Armstrong's flow of funds theory which seems to make weak currencies look relatively strong, only because the flow direction, not unlike an over valued stock that everyone is bidding higher.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:29
tolerant1 (gwyz, Namaste'...dig it?...gulp and a puff to ya...an excellent way to approach a) ID#31868:
possible future which may or may not occur...excellent...Brabo...yup...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:17
haulpak (@Ravenfire) ID#402183:

Fouled up, but accepts responsibilty?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:07
Dragon (Graphic (esotericist)) ID#271455:
Excellent graphic. Real perty coins!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:07
Dave in CO (@gwyz - excellent analogy - here's another) ID#229141:
The people living near the Mississippi a few years ago didn't expect a 300 year flood and then a 500 year flood. So many didn't buy flood insurance because it seemed to be a waste of money. And they were absolutely correct - until the floods destroyed their homes and belongings.

Money spent on Y2K preparations is not wasted like money spent on insurance. The goods are usable after 1/1/00 and, if inflation should happen to kick in with the bull market of 00, they can be sold at a profit.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:06
tolerant1 (cherokee, Namaste' gulp and a puff...as promised...quote and link...) ID#31868:
The Jet-Stream will come down to the earth.

http://www.tex-is.net/users/csbrocato/latest.htm

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 14:00
tolerant1 (cherokee, Namaste' gulp and a puff to ya...my respected friend,,,it may not have ) ID#31868:
been on that specific link that you posted, but as one traveled through, there is a direct and very specific sentence pointing this out as one of the horrors that will befall mankind...I shall go and find it...and bring it back with http address...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:47
cherokee () ID#288231:

wackin-the-woki....

where oh where did you see the jet stream coming to
ground level on the links i posted....on a link?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:40
gwyz (I was hoping...) ID#432130:
...someone would say something about my Y2K and Halloween posting. Whether it be good or bad

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:26
Gollum (Ok, away I go again...) ID#43349:
for real this time. See ya.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:24
Gollum (@rich ) ID#43349:
Actually they'll be lucky to be at 8,000 by then.

I just thought it ironic that only a few months ago everyone was making bets about what date this year we would hit 10,000 :- )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:21
Gollum (@Dabchick) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I thought I would take one more look at Kitco before I left to do my errands.

Money put into equities does not leave the money supply. Just like when you buy groceries. The money just goes to a different pocket and the money supply remains essentially the same.

Money put into government securities, however, returns to the reserve pool. As banks and governments build up reserves, less money is left to circulate.

Many foreign governments and hedge funds have bought US treasuries. Unless treasury bond paper is turned back into cash paper ( which appears to be atarting to happen now ) liquidity will remain tight unless somebody starts doing even more printing.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:19
rich (@gollum 9000 maybe) ID#411320:
Why not 10,000 the fact remains there are no technical or fundamental
logic to this statement...Stocks are still over priced for their
earnings most of the smart money have moved into bonds and metals
the only foundation is small investor who is lulled into statements
such as this. Wake up before its to late Be wisely worldly,be not
worldy wise

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:16
gwyz (Y2k and Halloween...) ID#432130:
Copyright © 1998 gwyz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I recently moved into a new neighborhood in a mobile home community. Up until 10 years ago it was an adult community with no children. The park was opened at that time to families with children.

Here's my point: I KNOW Halloween is coming. There is no doubt Halloween is coming on October 31st. I cannot change that fact. No-one can. But I dont know how many children will be trick-or-treating. I only know with certainty that some children WILL SHOW UP ON HALLOWEEN.

Now, what should I do? Should I buy just a small bag of candy because I dont want to be stuck with a bunch of candy if only a few children show up? Or should I buy enough candy to handle a larger number of children?

I care about my new neighbors and I want them to know I am a generous sort of person who has planned ahead JUST IN CASE THE 'WORST CASE SENERIO' comes true ( Alot of children ) . Well, since I DONT KNOW how Bad it will be with the number of children showing up, I have covered my butt by buying more candy than I could expect to give to the trick or treaters. I have planned ahead and I have confidence and peace of mind that I am FULLY PREPARED FOR THE HALLOWEEN TRICK OR TREATERS. I am done worrying about my ability to Ride out Halloween without having to feel anxiety over whether or not I will make it through the day without feeling like I let the children down. I would rather be over prepared than empty handed.

Now think about this senerio applies to the Y2k situation. It is coming and there is no stopping that exact date that it will occur. It WILL EFFECT OUR WAY OF LIFE! We just dont know for sure how bad it will hit ( eg: how many children will show up for Halloween ) . I cannot understand how it is that people just wont come to the conclusion that IT WILL HAPPEN, and because we dont know for certain how bad it will be, we should be buying some supplies. And at the very least we should take the advice of making hard copies of ALL OF OUR FINANCIAL DATA.

Just like the unknown quantity of trick or treaters which we should have enough storage of candy. How can it be that people dont understand that the Y2k event WILL HAPPEN. Why cant they see the logic, which is very clear in believers minds, that it is very foolish to just ignore preparations for Y2k when those very same people will overbuy candy just to be on the safe side of having enough.

I dont understand the stubborn state of mind people have about Y2k. They just blow it off as if it is nonsense. When the fact of the matter is that it is the exact same senerio as the unknown quantity of trick or treaters. Yet we over-supply the candy to be on the safe side. ( BE ON THE SAFE SIDE AND MAKE PREPARATIONS FOR THE Y2K EVENT THAT IS AS GUARANTEED TO OCCUR JUST AS HALLOWEEN IS GUARANTEED TO OCCUR! )

I say this stuff because I really care about your well being. I mean EVERYONE, ALL OF YOU...




Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:16
tolerant1 (esotericist, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya...) ID#31868:
Excellent graphic...gold as money...I like it!!!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:14
tolerant1 (Got Peace of Mind?...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm) ID#31868:
http://www.abcnews.com/onair/nightline/transcripts/ntl_981020_trans.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:12
Dabchick (Roebear) ID#258195:
Forgot to say I post Lease rates for Gold and Silver each Tuesday to Friday morning at 04:00 Kitco time, in addition to the Saturday 10:00 am slot........Dabchick

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:09
Dabchick (EJ, Goldilocks & Roebear @10:15 to 10:25 today) ID#258195:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for your responses.
Roebear .....I post these weekly figures of the Dabchick True Gold Index and Gold & Silver Lease Rates on this regular spot at 10:00 Kitco time every Saturday morning. Sometimes Bart's computer clock seems to be a bit slower to the minute than Big Ben, so it puts me in the earlier time-slot. In future I will post at 10 minutes past ten o'clock, Kitco time on Saturdays.
Goldilocks....I'm glad you find the figures helpful. The most valuable facet of them for me is the way that they force me to look at gold as it stands on its own feet, separate from the US Dollar. This may become more and more important as the Gold retail trade moves more and more into Asia.
EJ........Your question is the proverbial 64 ( trillion ? ) dollar one, of course. I track the BROAD money supply figures for US Germany and Japan each month, and these show that for the past three years, Broad money has been printed at average yearly rates of increase of 5% ( US ) 10% ( Japan ) and 6% ( Germany ) . So it looks like the total Broad Money Supply has increased by about 20% over the last three years. That money has probably gone mainly into paper financial instruments IMHO. This frenetic printing of moneyhas probably been implemented in an attempt to prevent the real economy falling into dire straits. Of course, it has not gotten to the right places ( it seems to have gone into different varieties of the printed stuff like share certificates etc ) so may have to be UN-printed by crashing the Stock Markets. Goodness knows what will happen next, but the True Value of Gold is not telling an optimistic story, it seems to me. In other words the whole frenetic excercise has been a total waste of effort, because the money didn't do the job it was expected to do. So deflation and default may well be the outcome, unless Greenspan can sharply de-value ( = debauch ) ( = debase ) the US$ and allow real things ( Commodities, Land, Gold, Manufacured Goods ) to have higher prices. A dangerous course, in Greenspan's eyes, I suppose.
Sorry I cannot offer an authoritative opinion . I'm no expert.
Regards............Dabchick Got to run.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:02
esotericist (First test link) ID#224230:
Just trying to put in a little link for anybody interested.

http://login.samart.co.th/~jpwillis/gold.htm

Dope somebody's online to go take a look.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:01
Gollum (Away) ID#43349:
to get y2k compliant checkbooks.

Be back later.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 13:00
Gollum (9,000 by the end of the year) ID#43349:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981024/hp.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 12:52
esotericist (That's enough lurking) ID#224230:
Time I put in my twopennyworth and quit lurking.......sitting here on my tropical island.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 12:50
Gollum (Latent?) ID#43349:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/981023/kaufman_ma_1.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 12:48
Gollum (Banking dissent) ID#43349:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/981023/kaufman_ma_1.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 12:12
NTEOTWAWKI (@cherokee - Ahhh Hahahahaaa!) ID#390337:
Loved that last site! My favorite line was The Jet-Stream will come down to the earth. Ahhh Hahahahaaa! Good One.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 12:05
NTEOTWAWKI (@EJ (G.G. Pulley & Associates check processing software )) ID#390337:
Now if only the AR/GL/AP modules which feed the check printer are compliant as well ? ...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 11:15
Mole (Hayek quote of the week) ID#34883:
http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind9810&L=hayek-l&F=&S=&P=9112

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 11:10
EJ (Good advice for bad banks) ID#45173:
Dr Bungo Ishizaki, adviser to one of the biggest borrowers of the failed Long Term Credit Bank of Japan, has some sound advice for the bank's new owners – foreclose on the bad loans and sell the collateral.

http://www.afr.com.au/content/981024/world/world2.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 11:01
Pete (Mr. Mick) ID#222231:
The point is clear to me if not to you. The people I was reffering to have been antangonists from day one. I resent their holier than thou attitudes and the loss of posters because of them. If you wish to put up with it, fine with me. I will fight injustices with my body and soul. If I am wrong in my assessment, please point them out to me and I will consider same.

yes indeedy

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:57
EJ (Caution – even fear – squeezes greed out of the picture) ID#45173:
Don't put on those party hats yet. The US financial markets are not as healthy as you might think from the rebound in equities. Outside the newly hopeful stockmarket, all seats on the flight to quality are still booked.

http://www.afr.com.au/content/981024/market/markets2.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:56
Mole (Cato article/re: IMF) ID#34883:
http://www.cato.org/speeches/sp-iv22598.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:48
Mr. Mick (Pete, - So, what's your point?) ID#345321:
Care to elucidate on your last post?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:30
Mole (gold) ID#34883:
ounce, troy ( g. contained ) = 31.1034768 # [exact]

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:25
Roebear (Dabchick) ID#412172:
Thanks for the 09:59, please keep us updated. Would it be possible to post it at a regular time and date, as I do not always have time to scroll all Kitco posts as I used to. I feel your index, along with Donalds ratios, well worth keeping in mind.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:23
cherokee () ID#288231:

must read about klinton and the us constitution..

http://www.tex-is.net/users/csbrocato/Const.htm

aarrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:22
EJ (G.G. Pulley & Associates check processing software ) ID#45173:
Fully Y2K compliant as of July 1998.

http://www.ggpa.com/default.cfm?page=plan

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:21
cherokee () ID#288231:

data..
http://www.tex-is.net/users/csbrocato/Gold_Wts.htm

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:18
Goldilocks (@Dabchick - Just wanted to thank you for your continuing posts) ID#377196:
and all your hard work - most interesting and enlightening.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:15
EJ (Dabchick ) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for the invaluable info on gold lease rates and prices adjusted for fiat inflation. I'm wondering if you'd be willng to weigh in with a guess as to which direction the buying power of the dollar will take when the recession hits and the US's liabilities begin to overwhelm assets. Some here contend that the Fed print like mad to attempt to inflate the money supply and will continue to drop rates to get the new money intothe economy and thus inflate its way out of debt. Others argue that the Fed is already printing like mad and dropping rates yet the dollar price of goods continues to fall, as gold indicates, so deflation and default are the ultimate consequences.

What's your take on it? Thx.
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:13
cherokee (@....bugs.....third.world.is.full.of.them....us.soon.tambien....) ID#288231:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

hedgehog..

the third-world-wanting-nukes-for-lunch-bunch made their
choice for weapons of mass destruction years ago. the
mitigating factors being cost, availability, and the
ability to track them once manufactured. the cost of
producing bio agents and dispersing them is nada
compared to nukes...bios are easily transported in dried
form to sanctuaries where the breeders are just as easily
set-up....most importantly.....they are not site specific.....
they multiply and are carried by the ones intended as the
victims...

read on....

http://www.tex-is.net/users/csbrocato/Bio_War.htm




Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:03
Dabchick (Clocks...........!) ID#257174:
See 0959 for True Gold Values

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 10:01
Dabchick (Friday' Gold and Silver Lease Rates plus weekly Summary) ID#257174:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For Fri 23 Oct calculated from data published in today's FT.
GOLD------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
LIBOR--------------5.22--------------5.22--------------4.94----------------4.69
MGLR--------------4.47---------------3.74-------------3.49-----------------2.92
Gold Lease Rate--0.75---------------1.48-------------1.45-----------------1.77
( Change ) ---- ( + 0.11 ) -------- ( + 0.08 ) ------- ( - 0.01 ) ------------ ( + 0.01 )

SILVER----------1- month--------3- month-------6- month----------12- month
LIBOR---------------5.22--------------5.22--------------4.94-----------------4.69
Silver Lend Rate----4.40--------------3.85--------------2.85-----------------2.45
Silver Lease Rate---0.82--------------1.37--------------2.09-----------------2.24
( Change ) ------ ( 0.00 ) -------- ( - 0.05 ) ------- ( - 0.05 ) ----------- ( + 0.05 )
The lines labelled ( Change ) = change in lease rates since previous day's figures.
MGLR and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weekly Summary of Gold and Silver Lease Rates
Monday 12th Oct to Friday 16th Oct
GOLD
Period --- | Mon,,,,,,,Tues,,,,,,,Weds,,,,,,,Thurs,,,,,,,Fri
1-Month- | 0.49,,,,,,,0.53,,,,,,,,0.67,,,,,,,,,,0.64,,,,,,,,0.75
3-Month - | 1.29,,,,,,,1.32,,,,,,,,1.48,,,,,,,,,,1.40,,,,,,,,1.48
6-Month - | 1.42,,,,,,,1.44,,,,,,,,1.44,,,,,,,,,,1.44,,,,,,,,1.45
12-Month| 1.78,,,,,,1.77,,,,,,,,1.78,,,,,,,,,,1.78,,,,,,,,1.77
SILVER
Period --- | Mon,,,,,,,Tues,,,,,,,Weds,,,,,,,Thurs,,,,,,,Fri
1-Month- | 1.22,,,,,,,0.82,,,,,,,,0.92,,,,,,,,,,0.82,,,,,,,,0.82
3-Month- | 1.92,,,,,,,1.52,,,,,,,,1.72,,,,,,,,,,1.42,,,,,,,,1.37
6-Month- | 2.44,,,,,,,2.14,,,,,,,,2.34,,,,,,,,,,2.14,,,,,,,,2.09
12-Month| 2.59,,,,,,2.29,,,,,,,,2.29,,,,,,,,,,2.19,,,,,,,,2.24

Note that 1-mo Lease rates for gold have been rising steadily this week, indicating ( possibly ) that CB.s are more reluctant to lend, or Speculators are more willing to borrow gold than they were last week. IMHO

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 09:59
Dabchick (Valuing Gold independent of fiat currencies) ID#257174:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here are the Dabchick Gold Index figures ( calculated from the London Bullion Market figures as supplied to the F.T. by N.M.Rothschild ) for the past week. All figures refer to the London close.
These figures are intended to show changes in the True Value of Gold relative to its value in January 1982. Because these values are independent of debased fiat paper currencies, they are also independent of the inflation caused to all other prices by governments that indulge in currency debasement.
Date--- | Close | High | Low |
19 Oct | 68.29 | 68.42 | 68.24 |
20 Oct | 68.21 | 68.57 | 68.18 |
21 Oct | 68.60 | 68.83 | 68.37 |
22 Oct | 67.89 | 68.12 | 67.40 |
23 Oct | 67.59 | 67.90 | 67.49 |
( Basis : Jan 1982 = 100 )
The index has broken out of the bottom of the 68 to 70 trading range which was established during the seven-week period which commenced 1st Dec 1997. This fall below the 12 Dec 97 low of 67.7 makes a recession in real economies throughout the world a much more likely prospect. If Central Banks do not act soon to pre-empt further signs of world recession, this True Gold Index could fall below its 18-year low of 66.93 of 2nd Sept 1992. In that event I will be hoping ( sic ) for support at 65.00. If that can be realised, and True Gold Index turns up strongly from 65.00, this chart will be making a strong Buy signal.
Note that since its high of 2nd October ( when this index stood at 72.73 ) the true value of gold has fallen by 7.3%. Because the US Dollar has also fallen at the same time by 3.9% against all other currencies, this has limited the fall in the dollar price of gold to 3.4%.
Regards................Dabchick

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 09:51
Mole (Wages of Sen) ID#34883:
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?FS=+%3Ch3%3EWages+of+Sen

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 09:29
Pete (1st-ALL THAT DISAGREED-THEN ANOTHER-THEN F*-THEN WHO KNOWS-THEN WHO'S NEXT?) ID#222231:
Copyright © 1998 Pete/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
WORDS TO LIVE BY:

Remember, when you come before Me, will
any possessions be important? Not one
possession will come with you. Begin to
separate yourself from the world of
possessions. If you do, you will not be sad
when something is taken from you. You asked
for My help, I am giving it to you.

KITCOITES, just keep praising and throwing accolades to those that have been denigrating LONG TERM GOLDBUGS since GOD knows when and been consistently wrong about you know what since GOD knows when. They are like Chameleons changing their postures to suit their purposes. Over half of their posts are irrelevant to the aim of this forum, so ergo keep telling them how great and indispensible they are. We will get what we so justly deserve. A buck is a buck no matter how, yes indeedy.


WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROT KITCOITES


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 08:25
Greenstone Gold (Well said sir..........) ID#428218:
Copyright © 1998 Greenstone Gold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

http://www.golden-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/murphy102398.html

remember to take out the en in golden

=======

On another point...... saw a video called The Gulf War, the story of American Government deception concerning chemical weapons and the inadvertent pollution of American Forces personnel during the war, follwed by Government cover up and the denial of rights to the Veterans.

Is there real basis to the movie ?

if so, then a Government cover up on the financial front would be childs play !

Och aye the noooooooooooo..........

Haggis

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 07:57
Bully Beef (Call the tanker Miss Adventure) ID#259282:
My fishin boat is Miss Cellaneous.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 07:55
ERLE (Nukes) ID#190411:
Hedgehog, maybe nukes are getting passe. It,s a whole lot cheaper to manufacture chemical and biological weapons.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 07:18
sharefin (Swing chart updated) ID#284255:
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Swing.jpg
First slowdown on the upswing.

----
From the man who wrote Tom's Take
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Markets/Y2k/Embedded.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 07:14
Hedgehog (cherokee, ...take a look at this..devils work is never done...hit the dirt) ID#39857:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Global weapons sales hit a record



By RICHARD NORTON-TAYLOR

Arms sales soared last year to record post-Cold War levels, with Britain consolidating its position as the world's second-biggest weapons exporter, an authoritative study showed yesterday.

Britain supplied arms worth $US8.6billion ( $A13.6billion ) , an increase of 5per cent, says the latest issue of The Military Balance, an annual review compiled by the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

The United States continued to dominate the world's arms trade - worth about $US47billion last year - but Russia's share of the international arms market fell to 5.4 per cent last year from more than 35 per cent a few years ago, according to the report. At home, Russia has a severe shortage of qualified officers and difficulties in maintaining an operational nuclear force, even at levels allowed by the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty ( Start-2 ) .

The study says: ``Even if Start-2 is ratified by the Duma, it will be difficult for the new permitted level of 2300 warheads to be maintained in operational condition.''

The report also reveals that for nearly three months recently Russia had no nuclear missile-carrying submarine at sea.

The international arms market grew by about 12 per cent last year, bringing the increase during the past two years in real terms to about 36 per cent, according to the institute.

Although it does not say which countries Britain supplied arms to, they include Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, India and Pakistan - all of them involved in regional disputes or political conflict.

]Saudi Arabia imported $US11billion worth of military equipment, significantly more than any other country. Imports included 36 Tornado bombers and 20 Hawk trainers manufactured by British Aerospace.

The study highlights concern about Iran's test this year of a medium-range ballistic missile, the Shihab-3, designed to have a maximum range of just over 1040 kilometres - sufficient to reach Israel and Iraq.

The study says Iran is reported to be developing a longer-range missile.

Introducing the report, Dr John Chipman, the institute's director, questioned the efficacy of diplomacy backed up by the threat of air power alone, without the use of ground troops. He said: ``Stand-off military threats invite only partial and temporary capitulation. Once the threat to use air power has been met by some concessions, building up the threat again becomes both politically and technically more difficult.''GUARDIAN

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 06:00
ravenfire (ChasAbar @ shipnames) ID#333126:
need a meaning for FUBAR beyond the accepted one.

hmm... F - fear, U - uncertainty, B - ?, A - Au, of course, R - reality?

hmmm....

other acroynmised names will be considered before the ceremony begins...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 05:36
ChasAbar (What's it spell?) ID#340344:
The initials of the words that ravenfire listed almost spell, ahh, ahh,
oh yeah, FUBAR, yeah, that's it.%^ )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 05:30
ChasAbar (ravenfire,) ID#340344:
The Good Ship Lollipop has a nice ring to it. However, if that's not acceptable, then I would vote for Uncertainty.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 05:19
ravenfire (chicken-man @ supertanker names) ID#333126:
how about these for a shortlist of names:
- Chaos
- Conflict
- Fear
- Uncertainty
- Panic

any others you might want to suggest? the christening occurs when the charts says it's time to leave port ( by my entirely unscientific estimations, probably a dollar cheaper or so more... )

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 05:06
Auric (Same Sh!t, Different Millennium Society) ID#257312:

Potential chaos this weekend as clocks are set back an hour! Read such experts as Scary North and Ed Yourdonefor. http://home1.gte.net/pipling/main.htm Am a Y2K doom and gloomer myself, but got a good chuckle from this site.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 04:39
John Disney (Plats vs silver ..) ID#24135:
for RJ et al
and now plat or silver .. which have BOTH been bad
relative to gold .. is there a preference ..
Pl/Ag ratio is in wave 3 of 5 wave decline .. from
recent high of 76 to low of 65. Up coming wave 4 should
carry plat to 70 times silver then collapse in wave
5 completion which will perhaps fail and double bottom
at 65.
But of the two plats probably a shade better short
term .. longer out Silver better till ratio of 65
has been taken out.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 04:35
CPO@AU (aurator( maples)) ID#329186:
oops sorry spelt your name in that last one incorrectly

cpo

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 04:34
CPO@AU (uarator(Maple surple) ID#25490) ID#329186:
Many thanks for your reply and yes to 99999 but I will have to search around to where I have read about this. until this 99999 was used for industrial use only.

PS I think I owe you an overdue reply to your e-mail re coins ( Mike S ,Sharefin,et all ) but you e-mail dissappeared into the depths of my system and cannot be put down to mass deleting

thanks

Cpo

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 04:24
aurator (Maple surple) ID#25490:
CPO
My Catalogue of World Gold Coins says that from 1979-1982 The Maples were all 999 pure, but have been 9999 since.
Are you sure there's a 99999 Maple?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 03:49
CPO@AU (Help please a bit puzzled) ID#329186:
This morning my au delivery ! when opened i noticed one of my Maples was stamped with 3 nines in contrast to all the others which are 9999 .I had thought they were all 9999 ( except the new 99999 ) can anyone help the date by the way on the 999 is 1980 any help would be appreciated they cane from my usual supplier

thanks

cpo

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 03:05
John Disney (the ghost of christmas past ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for RJ ..
As I recall, there was a time when you preferred
Silver to gold.. and suggested a long silver/short
gold position.. hmmmm
Now lets see .. On January 1 the gold silver ratio
was 47.3 to one .. It is now 60 to one ..
Sooooo.. being long silver relative to gold loses
21 per cent .. ( 47.3/60 = 0.79 ) .
The gold/silver ratio seems to be completing a wave
5 .. Buying silver in preference to gold NOW makes
sense .. but I notice no one seems to be interested
in doing that ( always a good sign )

indeedy - o

Ill take a look at silver relative to platinum next.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:58
Miro (RJ versus Gunny and Y2K gloom versus non-event arguments has a lot in common) ID#347457:
Copyright © 1998 Miro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am trying to stay out of these discussions because they go into extreme. Once you argue any issue from two extreme points, you never reach the closure. Instead, you continue to increase the distance between two camps.

I highly respect RJ professional opinion, don't know two much about gunny. I sure don't know the facts of this on-going argument and who did what. The only thing what I see is an ongoing escalation of the theme You did … No I did not … Yah, you did too. In addition, tone of this attack/defense is reaching the level of hostile divorce case where you throw away common sense and are willing to loose everything what you have just to hurt the other party. As we all know, nobody wins these cases, everybody looses, many innocent bystanders are hurt, and many friends are turned away.

If you know any such divorce case, you think, how can two adults behave this way?

When it comes to Y2K, again, it's argued on this forum mostly from two extreme point of views. It'll be end of our society or nothing will happen. The truth is somewhere in between, and when you read carefully, even parties expressing these extreme points admit this fact but continue to throw in the extreme facts. As with most thing in life, the truth is somewhere in between.

When the whole thing is over, ( and I wish it was over yesterday because working on Y2K takes too much out of my life ) , both camps will claim the victory. Doom & gloom camp will say, you see, it did not go over so smooth, we had problems and the no-event camp will say see, I told you, we are still here, life is going on.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:46
John Disney (the platinum story ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For RJ ..
You have had nothing but good things to say about
Platinum for a long time. However ..just to set
matters straight. The ratio of platinum to gold in
April 1997 was 1.4 to one. It is now 1.15 to one.
That means that those who went long platinum versus
gold LOST about 18 % over the period ( 1.15/1.4 = .82 ) .
It was never over 1.4 over the intervening period.
An ewave of the ratio looks like a wave 3 of a 5
wave down is completing .. I believe we may come
back to a 1.2 ratio .. then drop again to at least
1.12 to one or WORSE if wave 5 extends .. a 1:1 ratio
is a clear possibility.
After it clears wave 5 .. maybe a bull .. But a wave
4 up should be played on your toes if at all.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:43
Auric (Just Picked Up This Up From Drudges IRC Chat Room) ID#257312:

Matt Drudge says he has a story that will
Knock Washington for a complete loop! and
will pop it before the election, which is Nov
3. He doesn't elaborate on what this might be about. My guess is that he will release it on Halloween.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:40
Obsidian (Jack: your 1:15) ID#237299:
The addition of willing bimbos requires more rations than any man can afford. Stick with wife.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:18
AE_Calgary (Off to bed for sure) ID#7285:
-
3 Wells Fargo Execs Leave
Bank

Friday, 23 October, 9:22 p.m.
S A N F R A N C I S C O ( AP )

THREE TOP executives at Wells Fargo & Co. are
leaving the bank ahead of a pending merger with
Norwest Corp. of Minneapolis.

The trio are Vice Chairman Joseph Stiglich, 51, head
of the retail branch network; Vice Chairman Michael
Gillfillan, 50, the bank's credit chief; and Executive
Vice President Dudley Nigg, 51, online banking
manager.

Stiglich and Gillfillan, among the bank's top 10
executives, will get severance packages including
three years salary and a bonus. The amount was not
disclosed.

Nigg plans to retire at the end of the year.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:05
John Disney (nothing to do .. looking for trouble ) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For James ..
Agree .. PLO has always had a big PR problem .. Omar
im sure is too busy playing bridge to give a stuff
about Zionism. PLO just seems to be cursed with butt
ugly spokesmen.. and LOOKS are what matters in the
US of A.

For RJ/GR ..
I remind you that I PROMOTED this rematch and await
my 10 per cent of any funds you receive from Bart.
wanna go for two outta three
True Grity BUM never even showed for the prelim.

for RJ ..
I see you have decided Platinum will rise versus
Gold. You know who has chimed in.
You made this prediction a while back as I recall.
I think it went the other way .. same for silver.

Erle ..
was that you that mentioned Nick Godwin I dont
know the guy at all .. sounds like a good model though.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 02:03
AE_Calgary (@EJ) ID#7285:
Copyright © 1998 AE_Calgary/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The last line of your last post bothers me - not that you said it, but that it might be valid. Logic tells me that a group, even one made up of individuals weaker than the attacker, can almost certainly defeat the individual. Maybe we have be watching too many, dare I say it, American super hero movies!

As far as investing goes, I still believe that fear and greed rule behaviour and that the fear and greed are injected into the masses by a FEW analysts. I am still amazed how the markets can be rosy one day and doomed the next - according to the analysts.

Past midnight here - good night.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:58
EJ (Off to sleep...) ID#45173:
...perhaps to dream of my unrequited love, gold. Some day she shall open her arms to me and rise brightly. Torpid old couch potato, lying around on the sofa for 18 years, the hag. But in my dreams, a shining beauty, full of life...
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:49
oris (RJ,... yes, we will speak vodka and metals next week.) ID#238422:
For now, good night.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:44
EJ (AE_Calgary) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Precisely. The instinct is designed to guide the individual to choose an action that has the highest probability of limiting injury to the group. If a single individual acts as catalyst for several individuals to choose to act to defend the attacked, then the probability of injury of any one of them decreases, since the power of several defenders acting together is greater than the the power of any individual defender acting alone. If no individual acts as a catalyst to move the group to defend the individual under attack, that is because instinct has informed all individuals that the power of the group will be insufficient to overpower the attacker.
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:38
Auric (Big Guns and Bimbo Eruptions ) ID#257312:

Went to the Indy Knife and Gun Show tonight. Tough crowd, I must say. The entrance sign said No Loaded Guns Beyond This Point. Saw a bumpersticker-- My Wife Said She Would Leave Me If I Bought Another Gun. I Sure Will Miss Her. Neither saw nor heard anything about Y2K there. Jack's idea of bimbos is a sound one. Should be part of everyone's Y2K preparations.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:36
EJ (sharefin) ID#45173:
Marx was correct that concentration of wealth is the greatest threat to the freedom of the individual. His solution to the problem, however, leaves a lot to be desired.
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:36
AE_Calgary (@EJ) ID#7285:
Copyright © 1998 AE_Calgary/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think I heard something similar with respect to the analysis. I like the part about the tribe protecting itself. I think it is close to the attitude but not quite there. Looking at this from a personal stand point, if I was faced with the decision to help, or not, an attacked person, and this decision becomes more difficult when there is more than one attacker, I would probably be thinking of my own safety first. This attitude would most certainly be true if my family was with me. So I figure each member of the group would be feeling the same way. Each member would be waiting for another member to step up and request help so as to reduce the risk of injury. If no one steps up, the attcak goes on. It happened again here in Calgary earlier this year at a transit station.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:31
sharefin (This was a sockdolager) ID#284255:
-
http://www.fee.org/lereed/crockett1.html
Not Yours to Give
From The Life of Colonel David Crockett

'It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has nothing to do with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be intrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can ever guess how much he pays to the government.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:28
Jack (AE_Calgary) ID#254288:

Geez, now I'm gonna hafta re-do the whole darn configgeration.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:25
EJ (AE_Calgary) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A interesting study of group behavior came out of that tragedy. The research proved the following.

If a single man alone is faced with a decision to defend a person who is under attack, the chances are high that the man will act to defend the attacked. He has only his own judgement and personal sense of duty to guide his decision as to the correct course of action. If, however, he is in the company of others, then he will look to those around him to guide his decision, giving more weight to the actions of those around him than to his internal, self-guided sense of duty. The more others there are, the more his decision is influenced by their behavior. Each man in the crowd, seeing the other men taking no action, concludes that the correct course of action is to do nothing. In fact, he resolves the cognative dissonance between the group's behavior and his personal sense of the apparent need of the attacked for defence by perceiving the attacked as being in no danger. If the attacked is lucky, a single member of the crowd will act alone, against the prevailing correct behavior and act to defend the attacked. But this is rare.

If you are attacked you are less safe in a crowd than if you are in the company of a single stranger. This is somewhat counter-intuitive, but is in the nature of man.

It was postulated taht this group behavior evolved to mimimize the number of injuries and fatalities to the tribe when one member was attacked by a predator.

Also explains why millions of humans buy into speculative markets when they see the rest of the tribe doing so only to rush out later when they perceive, through group actions they observe as reported in the press, that the correct behavior has changed to sell.

Me thinks that there are a fair number of behavioral scientists on the PPT.
-EJ

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:23
RJ (..... Tovarish Oris .....) ID#411259:

Holster thy AK for now
Way to go on the Gs

Believe me when I say
There is no anger here
Like Clint Eastwood's snarl
I can frame the words
To all sorts of faces
What you perceive as nuclear
Is calm and resolute
The path ahead
Clear to the horizon

We will speak of metals and vodka soon, yes?

PS
Sneaky Russians up to shenanigans up Kamchatka way?
I heard things…. You know… Things……….

Indeedy



Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:23
AE_Calgary (@Jack) ID#7285:
What about water? I see you have the converters, but where does the water come from?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:23
Chicken man (ravenfire @ crude thoughtsor should I say thoughts about crude?) ID#341297:
Hey! I would like the honor of asking you to name this supertanker we plan to take a journey on....Ok

Just a silly thought...Chicken man...

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:15
Jack (Y2K preps) ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

4ea. 8 Horwitzers, track mounted with BMW hydrogen driven engines with h20 to h0 converters capable for electric generation and deployed for maximum effectiveness.
One wood burning oven for bread, cookies and pizza.
50 cords of oak
600ea. 16 oz. cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew.
4ea. 12 gage shotguns, two with sawed off barrels for maximum close quarter combat.
2ea. water purification units.
willing bimbos - as required, provided the wife allows.
100lbs of Fortified Powdered Milk.
100ea 36 oz. boxes of Wheathees, The Breakfast of Champions to help keep upwith the bimbo's, if required.
Gold coins to start life anew after the seige.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:11
oris (RJ) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Like you said, I ( and some other Kitco brothers )
have no idea what is in his e-mails, so, logically,
we do not tell him to shut up....It's just that your
replies and etc. look so hot, so hot...

But, like I said, you probably know better
what is going on...Indeedy, many of us like your info
on metals very much, and for many of us your waste of
time on telling us that you are good is just waste of
time ...and useful info. Indirectly it hurts your
credibility, if you just think a little bit about it...

In regard to reputation of your company - I understand
the importance to protect reputation and stuff...
but I do not need to repeat your own admission that
all brokers are different. I assume Monex is fine, but
I did have an exciting experience with Sterling Foster's
crooks - they managed to steal 30 Gs from me, although I
managed to recover those Gs back...I was one of the few
lucky ones...

This is America, country of sales people.... and we got to
learn how to deal with it...

In any case, wish you luck and success and hope you are
absolutely right in your fight...Waiting to hear from you
about metals...but if you are in grave danger, let me
know, I'll come over with my AK to protect you.


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:11
AE_Calgary (Free Kiwi) ID#7285:
That graph makes me want to sell my People Soft right now! Too bad the markets are closed - cross my fingers.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:09
Chicken man (ravenfire @ how about 2 weeks!!!) ID#341297:
Copyright © 1998 Chicken man/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Remember how the storm starts again after the eye passes over one..feriously...this thing will hit before we have time to spit!!...IMHO don't see this unraveling slowly to give us a chance to position ourselves ( so called hedging our bets....remember what happened to the Noble peace prize winners got when they thought their their bets were
hedged- guarenteed winners....ha..
So until then I'm trying to stay ahead of the curve...got kind of close to the edge today..sold my 120 bond puts MOC ( Market on close ) wheeeew... worked out OK.... capital returned in one piece plus 10....started to short the Dec...just puts...nosiree..would touch those futures with a 10 ft. pole!!!!...same strategy...1/3 bet with something close to the money...expensive ..but this is the one that gets your capital back ..next 1/3 capital goes to mid-money,this will probabily be your money maker ( Could make a heck of a joke out of that last line but I won't )
Anyway the last 1/3 or so goes for lotto tickets ( high odds...but feel oh so good when they come in....when the options close to the money are worth the cost of the WHOLE bet ,cash them in and get your capital back to the bank!...always another day and we got some betting money is the bank
System been gooood to me...and the chicken man doesn't endorse any of the above garbage...every man has a head..our only problem it is easier to let some one else doing our thinking...hard habit to break!...easy way for me is to turn off the TV...if I don't hear it here it isn't worth anything!!...Go NEWS HOUNDS....arf..arf..


Just another long thought....Chicken man...

E-mail:chamberlain@theriver.com

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:04
RJ (..... EJ .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

What you say is true. Most here have not noticed the ongoing campaign, which started last April. Since the gun one never has anything interesting to say, people tend to skip his posts. My response does have the effect of magnifying his attacks to me, but I live in the light and here I prefer to stay.

I am particularly sensitive to this, as nobody else, because it is me that these attacks are made to. I tried very hard to let them go by, but he is only increasing his efforts, with the stated intent that he will continue to escalate until Bart throws him off the sight. This is what he said he would do and this is apparently what he is doing.

Every word I write to these clowns is another word taken away from the markets. I get sick of it all too, and have left the sight for months at a time. Good posters like D.A. and Oldman have gone to more peaceful pastures - in no small part because of the acrimony here. How many more good posters will leave before this site polices itself? Toss out the garbage and go on, or sit right down in the mud and try to sort out the facts from the BS. Which is more productive? Which is more profitable?

All because of some folks that don't play well with others.

Sigh

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:03
Free Kiwi () ID#156396:
Updated Dow plot - 23-10-1998

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 01:02
AE_Calgary (Attacked) ID#7285:
I once heard a story about a woman who was attacked outside her appartment in New York. Some lights in the building came on and a few people yelled out the and scared the attacker off. No one, however, came out to help the woman, who was incapacitated by the attack. The attacker came back and finished her off!

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:56
EJ (BUGal) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A man with a good reputation who feels in his heart that he conducts himself with the highest standard of integrity does not need to concern himself about the attacks of those with a lesser reputation and lower standards. In this case the rank of the attacker and the attacked is apparent to all; the detractor attacks without moral force. But if the stronger man attacked fights back with disproportionate force against the weak attacker, the attacked signals that he feels he is vulnerable. He confuses those who hold him in high esteem, causing them to question their belief in his good reputation. A defensive man thus scapegoats himself. The attacker becomes emboldened by the attacked's defensiveness and thus gains strength.

I'd ignore the attacker. Either he will become bored and go away or others will come to his defense. If they do not, then it is not because they do not respect the attacked but because they lend so little credence to the attacker that their sense of duty to the attacked is not provoked.

-EJ





Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:56
aurator () ID#25490:
I have nothing further to add.

Away to wine and dine BJ's ma. I'm the one she calls white ghost. But it was 4 years before she spoke to me at all.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:52
RJ (..... AE_Calgary .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The key word there is unsolicited. Some folks received the shady e-mails without ever requesting such from the gun one, he just sent them. Seems as if he has been combing the sight and firing off these emails to anyone who posts an address. I wonder if he is also the one responsible for my receiving all the junk e-mail I have been getting of late? Thanks for the earlier compliment. I would love to get back to talking about the markets. I will now have more time for that. These juvenile attacks do slow things down a bit, yes?

Just once, I would like to see the crowd at large forget that I shorted gold for two years and stand up for what is right. But these same folks who often complain when I defend, are completely silent when others attack. This time for six months. More than 20 posts. I would think I should be given an award for patience.

Yep

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:40
AE_Calgary (@aurator) ID#7285:
My point is that nobody is pure - nobody! When someone sends an unsolicited email and talks negatively about a person, and has not requested privacy in ADVANCE, then that email is fair game to be FORWARDED. I don't see how keeping gossip and unpleasent talk about someone private does that person, or society any good.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:36
BUGal (@ EJ..... Just what would you do?) ID#259260:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EJ...your post is the very type I refer to when I say I'm confused by some Kitcoites responses to the RJ / Gperson issue. It's not a bar brawl by any means.

Supposing for a moment that all Kitco knows your profession. Suppose again that you've been a very valuable contributor with genuine expertise to this forum re Gold, and a record of Gold calls that is second to none. Suppose you take great pride in, of all things...demonstrating honesty, integrity, and putting forth your views in as clear and straightforward a manner as you can.

Now suppose someone comes along...unprovoked......and does the following.

Impugn your integrity. Impugn your honesty. Impugn your work, your livelehood, your company. Attempt to find ways to diminish your reputation, your income, and the company you work for on this very public forum. Send secret e mails to other members of the forum behind your back seeking to bring harm to you and your reputation as a professional. And do so for MONTHS even though being requested by you SEVERAL times to cease and desist.

Just what do YOU think your proper response would be? You'd just lie still and be defamed would you? Your work, your reputation, your professionalism, your honesty, your integrity? No matter how many times you ask nicely and patiently and try and deal with the person in question in a positive manner? You'd just let it continue ad infinitum would you?

RJ certainly doesn't need me or anyone else here to defend him. He has already demonstrated he can, should, and will do whatever is necessary to help defeat someone who attempts such a willfully destructive, and unjust campaign.

It does shock me however, that so many such as yourself, seem to cempletely miss what is happening here. It isn't a simple case of name calling. In bears no relationship to such.

It's a case of a sour grapes investor who won't take responsibility for his own decisions and market losses....., setting out on a deliberate, extended, and public campaign to unjustly smear someone else's reputation, integrity, and even livelhood.

Anyone who would do such a thing deserves the most extreme form of censuring rebuke. by EVERY one here.

RJ didn't ask for this ugly extended attack. He doesn't deserve it. Nor does he deserve the self righteous, condescending, hypocritical smugness of folks who express their unhappiness that RJ would have the unmitigated gall to deal with this as it should be dealt with.

I'll bow out...I don't want to be involved in an issue of taking sides and I don't want RJ unfairly associated with my own reputation as a bad boy of Kitco.

Nonetheless..... I needed to speak out on this. Walk a mile in his shoes before you speak so easily about rising above it,and having a beer at the Kitco bar. Sometimes there are ugly, violent, drunks who should be tossed from the bar first before you can kick back and relax.



Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:32
RJ (..... Sorry Folks .....) ID#411259:

I am unashamed and resolute.
His attacks have gone on for six months.
Many of you have no idea what is contained in his e-mails, I do.
Forget .22 caliber, I said zero in response.
This silence has encouraged this gerbil to escalate his efforts.
All his attacks completely unprovoked.
Why do you not all tell the gun one to shut up?
A bitter man who has problems with everybody he meets.
That's why he has all the guns.
Watch out, he may start pointing them.

Yep



Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:27
morbius (Y2K) ID#35757:
The question is not really so much will society break down on Jan 1 2000? as it is Will Y2K cause a panic?. I think we can be assured of two things. One, the government will assure us that there is nothing to worry about. Two, there will be horror stories of Y2K computer failures and dire predictions of chaos. Ande here we are not factoring in religious hysteria. An hysteria that is not totally irrational ( Revelations 13 ) , haven't seen much of this yet, but then it's not 1999 yet. Psychologically things will be different on Jan 1, 1999.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:17
oris (RJ) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I also prefer to fight when I situation dictates,
but you, my brother, seems to have tendency for
using nuclear weapons when .22 LR is guite enough.
That is a waste...

Aurator is 100% correct, your give me private e-mails
idea smells bad. I hope you will come to the same conclusion.
Guess, you overdid it a little bit...but, also, I belive
you should know what you are doing. I do not know.

It would be nice if you could continue your posts on subjects
of metal and also write some stories, like shooting Browning
pistol..it was fun to read. Wishing you the best...





Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:16
Selby (Earl) ID#286230:
Could you give us an outline of how you have improved your household by your preparations? Might help those who are trying to get started.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:14
RJ (..... Salty .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Some folks have already shown their willingness to send the gun one's e-mails to me, and with zero solicitation from me.

Now I am soliciting.

Why would you expect different?

Six months is long enough, yes?

If others on this site allow the gun one to continue his attacks, I will do all I can to stop them. Count on it. This is not one or two posts, blowing off of steam, and then going on with your life. Nor is this the honest and straightforward post of Allen ( USA ) of yesterday. No, the gun one has offered nothing to this forum BUT his attacks. No market insight, nothing funny, just some stuff about guns. I can talk guns for awhile, but there comes a time when it has all been said, twice.

Regarding Allen ( USA ) 's post. I don't know who he is, but it sounds to me as if he had a very bad experience, and maybe not the finest of brokers ( we come in all flavors ) . I accept his story as true and take zero offence at his telling. That he did so with class and forbearance is to his own credit. I do, however, find helpful in such stories some mention of the metal and range traded. Face it, a lot of folks lost a lot of money buying silver above $6.50. Some folks get hurt when the market gaps severely, but who on this site has not suffered terrible losses at the vicious claws of the unrelenting gold bear? I read of them daily, so losses occur. Brokers come with different talents, like all folks, I leave my own to be judged by the last year of public posts on this site. I have detailed my trades and never hid from a bad one, and made a damn sight more good ones than bad.

Anyway, the thing about the e-mail ….. I too, hold sacrosanct private communications, and do not pass on information to others. But when these communications are violent and attacking in nature and spirit, I do not feel so bound by this secrecy. Would you hold quiet and e-mail threat against someone's life? Or a bombing? Or the identity of a child molester? I think not. So the whole sacrosanct thingie has its limits, yes? Just like free speech also has limits. One cannot libel. One cannot incite to riot or revolution. These exceptions are well precedented and accepted by all thinking people.

As I have said, others have already forwarded the gun one's e-mails, some anonymously. These folks are offended at this guys sneaky and underhanded tactics and they want to see it stopped.

It will be stopped.

OK

Limey


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:13
Carmack (Gunrunner and RJ) ID#277224:

Gunrunner,just for the hell of it and to cast oneself
in the role of devils advocateie. sh-t disturber,
just what are a few of the lies to which you refer?Even a short
list might be entertaining.Drive fast as it is getting late.

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:12
Auric (NOAA Scientists Say Big Solar Storm Could Knock Out Satellites in January 2000 ) ID#257312:

As if the Y2K computer problem and the Leonid meteors were not enough, here comes a space storm! http://www.cnnfn.com/digitaljam/newsbytes/120235.html

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:10
ravenfire (thoughts on crude) ID#333126:
http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?id=1030005003694002&sort=postdate

hmm... 1973 anyone?

Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:04
oris (Aurator, EJ...agree with you, guys.) ID#238422:


Date: Sat Oct 24 1998 00:00
aurator () ID#25490:
AE_Calgary
I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

The Dead Letter Box is repugnant. Its use has been the hallmark of repressive regimes of a hundred shades: Communism, fascism, monarchies, priesthoods, organised crime, and witch hunts all are fuelled by Dead Letter Boxes. It breeds mistrust and stokes vendettas.

What's your point?




Return to Home Page

Site design & maintenance by Nick Laird
All pages on this website are ©1998-2017 ShareLynx Gold - All Rights Reserved