Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:57
Earl (Sharefin:) ID#227238:
'Pears to me that FEMA's approach to problem solving is to hold a lot of meetings and do some outreach, whatever the hell that is. No real surprise there but a totally outrageous use of resources and a threat to our personal health and safety. But whaddya gonna do? These people are unemployable in a modern economy. ...... Do you have the same crap in Oz?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:51
EJ (SDRer ) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Drinking beer at a Newbury Street bar in Boston in the late 1980s, I happened to be sitting at a table with a Harvard economist. I asked him why the World Bank loaned money to countries that any layperson knew was likely to default. He replied, Because they pay higher interest rates.

The trick is keep the interest payments flowing into the hands of bankers and while shifting the risk to the dumb-ass taxpayer. That way when the gig is up, the taxpayer pays off the loan and the bankers pocket the profits.

It's an old racket. Might be foolproof if they didn't get so greedy and play a leverage game.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:41
crazytimes (Spot) ID#344326:
See Spot run!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:40
John B (Sharefin) ID#211105:
Who is Oleman? Someone to take note of

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:34
sharefin (Avid chatter) ID#284255:
Just checking avid and caught Oleman

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:31PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
spoos action last few days has been that of a market pounding out a BOTTOM.
Dont know how far up it can go, but this is definitely bottoming type action
here since about Thursday last. Shaking out all the weak hands, while
holding critical support. Function of this kind of action is to return
stocks to their RIGHTFUL owners. )

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:38PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Next week has bullish possibilities. Bombing a country that cant bomb us
back is always good for 5% or more.: )

sciecon . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:40PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
oleman: Are you aimin to be a rightful owner of KO at 40 times next years
declining earnings? What about GE at 28 times earnings with a growth rate of

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:44PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
sciec: Probably wouldnt buy GE. Bill O'neill says the best stocks to buy are
always selling at greater than a 30 P/E. Ge's only at 28.: )

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:47PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
euska: Great bull markets end with gapping blow-off type action, like the
bonds are doing. Like JY in 95, and GC in 80, etc.

legend . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:48PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Lookin at Globex tonite ....its a powerful indication that the dippies are
back, and the averages are going higher, and the media will feed on it.
Unless, I am outta wack...and I have been wacked out occasionally. Someone
is spending a lota money right now.

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:49PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
sciecon: A little levity is alright, aint it? Seriously, overvaluation has
kept some of the smertest people I know from making $$ in this decade. Its
all Supply & Demand. Its worth what somebody will pay you for it. works as
long as you dont get caught with the old maid.: )
gapup . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:58PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
SP is trying to impress this evening. Up 10.10 on the evening. Is this the
beginning of the blowoff or just fishin' bait?

legend . . Tue, Oct 6, 9:59PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
some not apparent thing is cooking here. The gov. A big fund. A big
brokerage firm. 'the comet veered away from earth', what ever.....

legend . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:00PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Unless it changes in the next two hours. The last 2 months are history. Big,
Big, Bigger than us ants here, are involved. Its back to 9k +++

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:02PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
gap: short6 at 10:30 this a.m. Bottom fooled me and I stayed in too long on
the last half. Didnt get out of it til 2:55. One thing about these ranges,
you dont have to be on target to hit SOMETHIN.: ) I'm flat tonite. Woulda
bought around 8pm on globex, but wasnt here. But, with these 30+ handle
days, you dont have to fool with globex

legend . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:02PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Ole: if this holds. Its bigger than U

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:04PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
mits: I didnt think 9/11 would break. Today we went into the GLOBEX low of
that date, and reversed

hanobi . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:11PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
how long will this rally last? a few days acc to my calculation of hoodooo

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:13PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
hanobi: mUCH resistance just above. Lotta work to be done.

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:20PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
hanobi: I wont call it a bull til it gets above some MA's and turns em up.
Til then, I look for the sell first.

gapup . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:25PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Oleman: What ma/time frame will be the first to catch your attention for a
possible trend change?

oleman . . Tue, Oct 6, 10:25PM CST ( -0600 GMT )
Big Bubba's war should get it all bulled up next week. That scum-sucker, who
loathes the military ( his own words ) , has sent troops into more countries
than did Stalin, dropped bombs on more countries than did Hitler, and
ordered the deaths of more innocent American women and children than any
President since Lincoln. But he feels our pain. AND, he is a helluva spoos
salesman.: )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:34
John B (IMF sale is another false rumor to keep down gold) ID#211105:
Copyright © 1998 John B/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
No gold sale plan by big powers -Trichet
Reuters, Tuesday, October 06, 1998 at 15:07
WASHINGTON, Oct 6 ( Reuters ) - Bank of France Governor Jean-Claude Trichet said on Tuesday the French central bank had absolutely no plan for gold sales and that he believed this was the same case for its major Western counterparts. As far as the Banque de France is concerned there is
absolutely no plan for gold sales, and to my knowledge it's the same as regards the major owners of gold holdings, which are if I'm not misled, the U.S. first, Germany second, France number three and Italy four, he told Reuters. He was responding during an interview to a question on
whether central banks were considering gold sales after the gold market was swept by rumors this week that Britain -- an advocate of selling IMF gold -- would officially propose such a move imminently. Britain has already denied it planned to make any such announcement.
898-8383, ) )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:30
EJ (Why the World Banka and IMF will not save the world, Part III (FINAL)) ID#45173:
A picture says 200,000,000,000 words.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:28
contrarian (gold higher in Sydney/Hong Kong ) ID#203236:
Gold higher in Sydney/Hong Kong with solid buying, Something is brewing?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:27
Suspicious (NASDAQ will make problems !) ID#285121:
Folkes, The NASDAQ has fell 103 points in two days, the equilivent of a 500 point dow drop. Unless there is a considerable recovery margin calls will become a problem Thursday. Watch the last two hours of trade Thursday afternoon.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:19
sharefin (FEMA Y2k) ID#284255:

Got Physical?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:18
tolerant1 (Kaplan...priceless...simply priceless...uh huh...yup...priceless...) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If global markets are to bring the benefits we think they can, we simply must find a way to tame the pattern of boom-bust on an international scale. --President Bill Clinton, October 6, 1998.

Admirable sentiments indeed. Somehow, though, I don't remember the President actively intervening when the Dow rose above 4000, to prevent the U.S. stock market from excessively booming. I also don't remember him taking action when the Dow hit 5000, or 6000, or 7000, or 8000, or 9000 . . . . To be more direct about it, the President aided and abetted the boom all the way to its euphoric top, and he bears some responsibility for the losses of naïve investors as they ride the market all the way down to the bottom. Several decades from now, it is Clinton's presiding over the biggest bear market in U.S. history that will be remembered by historians, not his affair with Monica Lewinsky. If you are skeptical, tell me the first thing you think of when you hear the words Herbert Hoover.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:17
sharefin (Snipped from the web) ID#284255:
Almost a week ago, the September 30th deadline for government
agencies to be finished with their Y2K repairs came and went. The date
was set by Clinton for agencies to have all their mission-critical
systems repaired. The timeline was supposed to look like this:

Sep 30, 1998: finish repairs

January, 1999: finish testing

March, 1999: implement the repaired systems

Instead, it looks like we're going to get a schedule more like this:

Sep 30, 1998: Say nothing
October, 1998: Say we're making good progress
December, 1998: We're on track!
January, 1999: We're 99% done!
February, 1999: We're almost done
March, 1999: Okay, we're done with the repairs
April, 1999: Oops, we thought we were done, but we were mistaken
May, 1999: Okay, now we're almost 99% done, really.
June, 1999: We're done
July, 1999: We're testing now
August, 1999: Still testing. This stuff is complicated, you know.
September, 1999: We found some bugs, gotta make more repairs
October, 1999: We're right on time, no sweat!
November, 1999: Okay, we've finished testing
December, 1999: We're going to start implementation now
January, 2000: We regret to inform the public that due to
circumstances beyond our control, we were unable to meet the
impossibly-short deadline of January 1, 2000 for the renovation,
testing and implementation of extremely complex computer systems. As a
result, please make arrangements to conduct your lives without the
benefits and services of {insert agency name here}.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:14
SDRer (EJ-One would LOVE to query Mr. Wolfensohn about MIGA-and the IPA net) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EXPOSURES-and the deals done for Turkey ( quid pro quo, one strongly suspects )

The Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency ( MIGA ) was established on April 12, 1988, as the newest member organization of the World Bank Group. Its purpose is to encourage the flow of foreign direct investment to its developing member countries for economic development. Its primary means of facilitating investment is through the provision of investment guarantees against the risks of currency transfer, expropriation, and war and civil disturbance ( political risks )

They too do derivatives. How do you reckon they have been fairing with their investment guarantees of currency transfer risks? How deep in the morass are they? Do you too wonder if guarantees carried on the books as loans? And feel confident that they are not?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:08
sharefin (J Stack) ID#284255:
The critical ( if not magical ) DJIA 7500 level held AGAIN yesterday when buy
programs came out of nowhere to cut a loss of over 200pts to less than 60 by
the close.

We strongly suspect there is now direct intervention by the Central Bank of
Japan in supporting the Nikkei at the 13,000 level. We also suspect direct
intervention by major Wall Street firms ( if not the Federal Reserve itself )
in supporting the U.S. stock index futures market. Only that could explain
the internal divergence. This market is literally crumbling from underneath
the DJIA. We feel that WHEN ( not IF ) the DJIA breaks under 7500, it'll be
like a hot knife slicing through butter.
We could be wrong, but we think the next big move down will come within
days, not weeks.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 23:05
arden (APH - great silver trade, BUT I don't think you can get in) ID#257344:
Copyright © 1998 arden/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
First let me give you my email so we can talk.

Here is my thinking. This big move in bonds has been caused by a huge short squeeze against the hedge funds. Now, really, would you loan money to the US government for THIRTY YEARS at 4.7 percent interest? Get real! ( get gold ) . Last week it appeared to me that someone was willing to supply a lot of gold at 300 dollars per ounce to keep the lid on the pot ( my guess is it was the IMF - they already sold folks! )

So, who is the beneficiary of this bond move? Why, of course, it is Japan. For many years they have bought ( had it shoved down their throat ) US bonds with their excess dollars from their balance of trade. Each time they did it, the yen-dollar exchange rate moved just enough to keep them frozen in their position! Until now, when they need the help the most, they have a golden ( sic ) opportunity. Their bond protfoiliol has exploded in value and they have massive buyers on the other side ( hedge funds ) . Therefore, I believe they are liquidating US bonds big time which is weakening the dollar ( have you noticed the dramatic move in the Yen today and tonight? )

What does this mean? Very simply, first all currencies were devalued against the dollar and now the dollar is being devalued against stuff as DA would say. Stuff is gold, silver, corn, wheat, oil, etc. When the Fed lowered the interest rates folks, it was the signal - here comes inflation ( devaluation of the dollar against stuff ) .

For my friends on this forum who had the balls to buy the lows and got nervous yesterday and took profits hoping to get back in lower, let me tell you a story. I had a friend who bought silver futures in the late sixties at about their top, they went down and down and down. He borrowed from everyone he could and kept rolling his position over because he just knew he was right. Finally, when silver started going back up, he could not stand the pressure when he was finally even after four years of hell. He sold out and paid off his debts. Silver went limit up the next 22 trading days!

Just my thoughts for today.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:38
EJ (Why the WorldBank and IMF won't save the world, Part II (we need $200B over the next 3 months)) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
October 6, 1998 New York Times

Latin Americans Say Russian Default Is
Hurting Their Economies


WASHINGTON -- Increasingly angry at what they consider the lenient
treatment that Russia received in its $4.5 billion bailout by the
International Monetary Fund, Latin American officials and economists
warned Monday that the programs being offered to protect their own countries were
too paltry.

Guillermo Ortiz, Mexico's central bank governor and former finance minister, said
that faced with the mounting financial pressures on Latin America and the rest of the
developing world, the $90 billion the United States wants to give the monetary fund
in extra lending money would be adequate if things go well, but not enough for a
bad scenario.

By some calculations, he said, the developing world might need $200 billion in new
loans by 1999.

Ortiz's warnings came at a seminar here during this year's annual meeting of the
World Bank and the IMF. When Russia defaulted in August on its huge foreign
debts and the United States and other major powers allowed it to happen, he said,
South America's ability to withstand the global financial crisis was seriously

Until then we were doing fine, he said. But everything changed after Russia.

What clearly angered Ortiz and other officials at the seminar was the strong political
and financial backing that the United States and other major powers gave Russia
right up to the moment it defaulted.

Russia was treated like a member of the Group of Seven, Ortiz said, referring to
the world's most powerful nations, at whose behest the monetary fund lent Russia
$17 billion. It was unthinkable it could fail, he said.

He added that while Mexico could survive a period of market instability, it must be
temporary or the situation will be out of control.

Ortiz said Russia's default made investors around the world wary of all emerging
market countries, including those in Latin America.

Finance Minister Eduardo Aninat of Chile said: It's the packaging effect. Analysts
don't differentiate between regions, countries or sectors anymore.

Latin America is being buffeted by external shocks this time, it is not the source of
the shocks, said E. Gerald Corrigan of Goldman Sachs and a former president of
the New York Federal Reserve, alluding to the Mexican peso's collapse in 1995 and
the financial turmoil that it provoked.

All ministers and officials speaking at the seminar, entitled Latin America: a steady
ship in troubled waters? promised that their countries would continue the
free-market-oriented economic reforms they have introduced in recent years, selling
off state-owned companies and encouraging private business.

But they also insisted that the United States, other important nations and institutions
like the World Bank and the IMF must be ready to help.

The Brazilian finance minister, Pedro Malan, who was greeted with cheers when he
announced the apparent re-election of President Fernando Henrique Cardoso,
pledged the government to impose painful new austerity measures to reduce the
budget deficit. We interpret the election as a mandate to do what we said we would
do, he added.

He recalled that early in September the finance ministers and central bank governors
of nine Latin American countries had met with World Bank and IMF officials in
Washington and vowed to deepen our reform efforts.

In Brazil, consequently, there would be no changes in the government's exchange
rate policy and no resort to controls on outflows of money even though the country
has seen about $30 billion of its reserves drain away since July.

But he said nothing about the big financial aid package he is rumored to be
negotiating with Washington, the World Bank and the IMF and which some
officials now say could total as much as $60 billion.

He did evoke the possibility of a serious breakdown in Latin America's largest
economy -- which is bigger than those of South Korea, Malaysia and Thailand
combined -- by saying the world now has an historic opportunity to show how by
acting together we could have a successful experience at crisis prevention.

So far, Latin American economies have weathered the international crisis relatively
well. The IMF currently expects them to grow at a rate of 2.8 percent this year and
2.7 percent next year, down only 0.6 percent and 1.6 percent respectively on what
it predicted last May.

But international confidence in the region's currencies is vulnerable to the
balance-of-payments deficits that all major Latin American countries are running.
They currently range from 3.6 percent and 4.4 percent of total output respectively
for Brazil and Argentina, to 7 percent in the case of Chile.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:37
TYoung (THOUGHTS...he/ she...DAH..) ID#370218:
A bit melodramatic and somewhat overdone but nonetheless an apology. It’s the multiple personality bit and the “I know who you are “ stuff that is, well, a matter of concern. Yes? Indeedy.

Gold...not going to $285...I’m surprised...but happy. We watch and wait. Watch the long bond...Glenn ain’t crazy. Sleep tight...nite, nite.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:29
EJ (Why the Worldbank and IMF will not save the world, Part I) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
October 5, 1998 New York Times

World Bank Worried by Pressure for Quick-Fix
Fiscal Action


ASHINGTON -- As the global economic crisis spreads across much of
the developing world, the World Bank fears that the Group of Seven
major industrial powers wants to transform it from a slow-moving
development agency into a financial fire truck, programmed to squirt streams of
cash at countries under speculative attack as part of a plan to create a large financing
mechanism capable of combating the global turmoil.

Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund, which was expressly created to
perform the job of emergency financial rescue, is in danger of becoming sidelined in
the present emergency. After advancing huge loans to Asia and Russia, it has only
enough cash left for one more big rescue operation unless the U.S. Congress
overcomes its hostility to giving it new funds.

What I've been trying to do recently is to convince my shareholders that they
shouldn't think of the bank as a second-level IMF, the World Bank's president,
James Wolfensohn, said last week at a news conference, stressing that his duty is to
promote sound long-term development. We are not that; we are not a lender of last
resort or a liquidity funder.

As finance ministers from all over the world gathered here this weekend in
preparation for next week's annual joint meeting of the World Bank and the IMF,
many warned that without a radical strengthening of the international financial
system the crisis will spread far beyond Asia and Russia to affect the whole
developing world.

Recession will be at the door of all countries unless we react quickly, Algeria's
finance minister, Abdelkrim Harchaoui, said on Saturday after serving as chairman
of a meeting of the Group of 24, which represents the developing world.

India's finance minister, Yashwant Sinha, said, We're witnessing an
unprecedented crisis, with whole regions engulfed, not just countries. It's a global

The IMF has sharply lowered its economic growth forecasts for the developing
world as a whole, predicting now that its economies will expand by 2.3 percent this
year and 3.6 percent next. That compares with last year's 5.8 percent rate.

The four most seriously affected Asian countries -- Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea and
the Philippines -- are much the worst hit. Together they face a 10.4 percent decline
in economic output this year and another smaller contraction next year.

Hopes of economic growth in Russia and the rest of the former Soviet Union have
also been dashed, with the IMF now expecting a decline overall and a sharp 6
percent fall in Russian output this year and next combined.

Under difficult international conditions, what the World Bank now fears is that the
United States and other members of the Group of Seven will push it into
contributing to the plan they endorsed Saturday for creating a big new pool of
money to combat the global crisis.

This would involve asking the World Bank to relax its usual lending standards and
to join the IMF in making new quick-dispersing loans to countries in trouble that
would be little more than cash injections rather than a serious contribution to their
long-term development.

At a news conference Sunday, the British chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon
Brown, was ambiguous about the World Bank's role in the present crisis, saying
the Group of Seven wanted to stress the World Bank's long-term role in
promoting structural reforms but adding that it must still take a role in crisis

In the back of everyone's mind is Brazil, which has been in danger of speculative
attack for some time and is informally discussing a possible big new loan of about
$30 billion with international aid agencies and Western governments once this
weekend's elections are out of the way.

The World Bank is vulnerable to pressure to become more of a short-term financing
agency for countries in distress because, unlike the IMF, it is relatively flush with
cash at the moment. With a lending capacity of some $160 billion and about $104
billion in outstanding loans and pledges, it could in theory lend an additional $50
billion or so.

When Larry sees those figures, a senior World Bank official said, referring to
Lawrence Summers, the U.S. undersecretary of the Treasury, he says to himself,
'Here's another $50 billion to throw at the crisis.'

World Bank officials say they are ready to play some financial fire-fighting role.
But they do not want to endanger their reputation as a first-class borrower on
international financial markets by raising annual net lending above $11 billion, from
about $8 billion last year.

And they insist that any extra loans should meet their traditional lending conditions
and be destined for sound long-term projects intended to fight poverty and to
promote development goals like education, health and environmental protection.

The IMF, meanwhile, has the potential to play an enhanced role, as the Group of
Seven called on it to do on Saturday, since member governments have agreed to
give it $90 billion more of their national currencies, of which about $60 billion
would be paid in desirable currencies that crisis-stricken countries would want to

In addition, they want to expand a special overdraft fund known as the General
Arrangements to Borrow by a further $22 billion, thus giving the IMF a total of
nearly $90 billion in extra money to lend.

But the actual provision of this cash remains stalled by the refusal of Congress to
approve the United States' contribution.

Until Congress gives its assent, the IMF has only about $26 billion of usable
currencies left in its coffers and $16.5 billion more in the special overdraft fund.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:24
BCIWN (@ KAPEX) ID#206298:
You can't just forgive a hugh position like that. There are others that are on the other side of those contracts that are going to want thier money for the profits they have made. Unless some bank has said they are going to foot the bill , I find it hard to believe the position has been forgiven. If there ever was a position in the first place.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:04
zeke (Buckeyes) ID#25257:
Joe Germaine is one of my favorite football players. Two years ago, he drilled the eyes out of ASU with their hot-man Jake Plummer. Even though they bludgeoned him like the dirty steetfighters they are, with stitches in his chin, he took them apart. Go Buckeyes! Joe Germaine, you're a credit to THE GAME.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:04
sharefin (Swing chart updated) ID#284255:

What happened to Europe?
When I went to bed all the indices were up 2% to 5%
Wake up this morning and they're all down 2% to 5%


Polarbear your RANGY site is now on my site.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:02
Tantalus (Looks a lot like the end time here in Del Dios (San Diego)) ID#317211:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yet another disgruntled employee guns down mayor & 5 others in
Riverside,Ca. this am. Thieves lead LAPD on 4 hour chase from LA
to SD and back. Santa Ana winds fanning fires everywhere.

All hell breaking loose.

fire to the north - the Canadian peso
fires to the west - that would be Asia/Russia
fires to the south - Brazil, Mexico

Odd, still quiet to the east - Washington DC, Chicago merc & Wall Street.

Santa Ana winds usually blow this whole month of October. Will tell
the fire-spotters to train their gaze to the east, towards DC.

Don't want to be surrounded, and will take flight on the Gold-paved
road to safety when the time comes, and it will.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:02
sharefin (Swing chart updated) ID#284255:

What happened to Europe?
When I went to bed all the indices were up 2% to 5%
Wake up this morning and they're all down 2% to 5%


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:02
HighRise (Dollar/Yen) ID#401460:

Tuesday October 6, 9:28 pm Eastern Time

INSIGHT-Dollar/yen to hit 128.90 area then find legs

Let's keep an eye on the US Dollar and....OIL.


Bart, Well what do I do now? Has this been posted or not? Well I will submit again and maybe the posting window will close.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 22:01
zeke (Buckeyes) ID#25257:
Joe Germaine is one of my favorite football players. Two years ago, he drilled the eyes out of ASU with their hot-man Jake Plummer. Even though they bludgeoned him like the dirty steetfighters they are, with stitches in his chin, he took them apart. Go Buckeyes! Joe Germaine, you're a credit to THE GAME.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:58
HighRise (Dollar/Yen) ID#401460:

Tuesday October 6, 9:28 pm Eastern Time

INSIGHT-Dollar/yen to hit 128.90 area then find legs

Let's keep an eye on the US Dollar and....OIL.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:56
Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug (Bank of Canada Gold Sold at $321.23 per oz) ID#432214:
Copyright © 1998 Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Footnote # 2 of the Dept of Finance October 5, 1998 Press Release

Includes a reduction in the book value of gold holdings of $10.7 million and an increase in reserves of US $72.6 million due to sales of 226 thousand ounces of gold. On September 30, gold holdings stood at 2.6 million ounces.

US reserves increased by $72.6 million on sales of 226,000 oz of gold
( 72.6 Divided by 226,000 = $321.23 )

Conclusion: The Bank of Canada sold the gold about a year ago at $321.23 and the buyer took delivery in September.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:50
Earl (crazytimes: ) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If true, that report should be a source of outrage to everyone. Another egregious extension of the moral hazard. It really is without limit.

The least that should happen is that the principals of LTCM spend a few years in jail with unattractive cell mate named Bubba. Big Bubba, who ain't seen the outside for some time.

The procedure was really inevitable though. They had no choice in the matter. We can only hope that the loan forgiveness came from a bank that was planning to sell. But we will likely never know which bank it was. For obvious reasons. .... Imagine the outcry if it were known that a foreign bank bailed out a deadbeat US hedge fund on a gold loan.

In the meantime, we bide our time until the next hedge fund domino begins to topple. There must be a finite limit to forgiveness. ..... at least in the financial sense.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:48
kapex (Is everybody safely is cash or PM's or PM stocks? Good!!!!!) ID#218215:
Copyright © 1998 kapex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Has everyone been hearing the talk on the idiot box lately? They are scared! And so am I! Just a quick word of advice about what various indicators you may be following. In normal times so to speak, these technical indicators and sentiment indicators are very good at telling you a directional change is immeinent ( sp ) . Tecchnical anaylsis is a wonderful tool for telling you what should happen based on what HAS just happened. It says nothing, and I repeat Nothing with respect to the Fundamentals that underlie any current valuation that is given to a security at any given point in time. At some point in time ( NOW ) the true
fundamentals that valuations are based on quickly reassert themselves and reality sets in. This happens Fast. That realization is upon us as world leaders are saying out loud now what most of us here at Kitco have been acutely aware of for some time now. Good money after bad is what got us her in the first place.

Here is Dan Ascani's Oct.6th commentary.

A Meeting of the Minds?

Today's Market Commentary

October 6, 1998 00:05 GMT -- While the Dow managed to hold on to a mild gain and the December S&P's
ended up unchanged to slightly lower for the day, the drama continues to unfold around the various sectors. The
NASDAQ took out Monday's lows, and is very close to making new lows, below the September 1st lows. That is
the equivalent of Dow 7400 and SPZ 946.50. Meanwhile, the Russell 2000 continues to plod lower, below those
critical September 1 lows. Is the strength of the Dow ( which was stronger all day than the S&P ) the last refuge
of safety? Our personal preference is gold stocks to blue chips. It certainly appears to us that the stock market
is on borrowed time, and this month is still going to bring in a significant low.

This past weekends meeting of the minds as it were, and financial leaders, did not produce any substantial
concrete ideas on how to work out the troubles facing the globe on an economic front. There was essentially an
agreement that something needs to be done. Indeed. At any rate, the market sold off quite a bit at one time, only
to recover, though stocks still ended lower on the day. But the bad news keeps coming in. Earnings warnings for
some tech stocks sent the NASDAQ sharply lower. The Russell 2000 made new lows for the year, as did the
Dow Transports. And the Utilities soared. Defensive moves continue, though the XAU ( gold stocks ) suffered a
pretty sound thumping as there are reports that the IMF may sell some of its gold reserves to raise cash to loan
to those countries in need. Remember they are pretty low on cash and any fresh injections would come from
the U.S. through Congress, which doesn't appear to be in too much of a hurry since they are focused on
Clinton's impeachment hearings.

In the beginning stages of any cycle of debt collapse, an initial contraction of available credit that even a soaring
money supply or easier Fed policy cannot completely stop occurs. A contraction in credit is, in fact, occurring
now across the globe and it is reaching the United States. The failure of the hedge fund Long Term Capital, Ltd.,
occurred when creditors reached a point at which they would no longer extend credit due to the losses the
hedge fund had already incurred during the global meltdown of 1997/1998.. Reported sweet-talking of the big
banks and brokerage firms by the Fed was needed to finally extend enough credit to absorb the failing
partnership. The Federal Reserve has never bailed out a hedge fund, preferring instead to let them fail and keep
the system efficient. In this case, the Fed is worried about more such cases, which reports indicate do, in fact,
potentially exist, and what it would do to the financial system if a chain-reaction of failures of this type were to

This situation is even more serious when one considers the fact that, according to some sources, much of the
banking and brokerage industry itself may have been implementing the same types of trades as has Long Term
Capital. The trades involve attempting to boosting yields in portfolios by buying corporates and hedging with
Treasuries such as 10-year notes and 30-year bonds. Long mortgages and short Treasuries are also reportedly
in play this year, as are yield curve plays which involve buying the short end of the curve and selling the long end
of the curve with the expectation that the yield curve will steepen.

However, the reality of the situation turned out to be exactly the opposite of the expectations implied by the above
trading positions. Treasuries soared to record highs as government-guaranteed yields plunged on the long end
of the curve in the face of a global flight to quality, and corporate bonds fell as profits shrank in the face of rising
risk and rising corporate yields. And, to top it of, the Fed remained tight in its policy and the short end of the
curve failed to come down until now. When it finally did, the Fed eased by only 1/4 point and bonds again soared
to record highs, the yield at a record low 5%. All of this has made a mess of hedge fund and banking industry
trading positions, producing massive losses-enough to fail Long Term Capital and send concern reverberating
throughout the system. Chase Manhattan Bank reported exposure to hedge funds at $3.25 billion, 75% of that
exposure collateralized in U.S. Treasuries.

All of this, plus the uncertainty over how severe the situation is and how much more there is out there that the
marketplace does not know about, has the Fed worried enough to ease interest rates for the first time in 32
months even in the face of a still-strong U.S. economy. By easing, the banking system is helped with billions in
saved interest. By easing the Fed Funds rate ( the rate banks pay each other to borrow money overnight to meet
reserve requirements and other demands ) instead of the Discount rate ( the rate at which banks pay to borrow
from the lender of last resort, the Federal Reserve System ) the Fed is encouraging banks to profit from each
other by borrowing from each other. This will serve to help liquefy the banks, thereby helping strengthen the
system at a time when losses are occurring and global contagion threatens profitability and stability.

However, the global system is increasingly strained, easily offsetting any benefits of a saved 1/4 point in
overnight interest rates. Moreover, Latin America is teetering on the verge of implosion again at a time when
Brazil has experienced a huge capital flight episode ( foreign money pulling out of Brazil at a rate of $1 billion per
day, lowering reserves to a paltry $55 billion and threatening Brazil's currency peg to the U.S. dollar as well as
their very solvency ) . In the days ahead of a Brazilian election the first weekend of October, I.M.F. rescue efforts
are at a critical point, with much at stake that first weekend of the infamous month characterized by crashes and
panics of the past. The I.M.F., however, just lowered its forecast of world Gross Domestic Product growth
( finally! ) . Standard and Poors has spent time the past week lowering the ratings of certain banks and financial
institutions across the globe. To be sure, the situation in the global economy is turning from bad to worse.

And we haven't even addressed ( again in this issue ) the problems of Japan, Asia, Russia, and other global hot
spots repeatedly featured on these pages. As a result, there is more bad news to come in this global meltdown,
even though we must acknowledge the proximity of the 4-year cycle due to bottom this fall ( see U.S. Stock
Market section ) . The kind of structural and credit collapse that has been occurring globally does not repair itself
in a year. In fact, despite the strong potential for large stock market rallies at times, it doesn't even repair itself in
one 4-year cycle. For more info, go to Global Market Strategist® info

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:48
George (Rangy) ID#433172:
Why does it stay at 68 cents? It's been going up to .719 and right back to .68 for some time. Must be a reason, could it be somebody is feeding a bunch of shares bought cheap, real cheap, into the market at .68?
Guess I'm suspicious, got that way buying mining shares.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:46
strat (Highrise, weiser) ID#93241:
Highrise, how about our Bucks? Makes me pine for Papa Joe's and a bucket.

weiser, I think you're right about this being a turning point. Between market and political turmoil and Y2K, I wonder if this is what it feels like getting ready for a hurricane. You do all you can, but....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:45
weiser (Zeke, Pete: Zeke, you guys are good!! More then good,--- great!!!) ID#202123:
We love you!.

Pete, I'm getting ready to do the same thing. I'll not let anyone know ( except you ) that I do enjoy it. There is nothing like the smell of autumn. You can't beat it.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:44
sig (weiser buckeye) ID#288436:

Most likely we are going to be laughing at all this in 2 years. My strategy is to cautiously buy on fright and panic. Sell-offs present the best opportunity. Observation coupled with prudence is everything. BTW, does anyone know anything about DeBeers. Not much interest in gold anymore, but a bullet-proof balance sheet with a pe ratio lower than the dividend. Could go lower however as seasia/Japan moves slowly lower. I'd be tempted to buy a whole bunch at $10. Has paid a dividend each year since 1941.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:39
BCIWN (BART has spot up 3 at 9:15) ID#206298:
Copyright © 1998 BCIWN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I tell you all, one of these days we are going to see a limit move. Right after a $10 dollar move which probably isn't far off.

Heck, England will probably cut rates on Thurs., Japan has some move up thier sleeve. They are not doing the Rubin shuffle as he would like. They are thinking for themselves and are going to do a real lou-lou here soon.
I think thier MOF sees things clearly and he is going to act on his own here soon. He isn't a puppet.

Germany may cut rates if the mark gets much stronger. And you know damn wellthat the US has to cut rates here soon with the stock market having trouble and the long bond vs the short bond in an inverted yield curve.
I think Meridian Gold is going to $100 before Anglo - Americian!!

Yes, I do own Meridian,... and Rangy, ..and GSR,,,, and ALTA,and GLDR, and GRERF, and....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:38
mapleman (@speed) ID#348127:

thanks for the url- thought i was ready for the run but if this is gonna be it, and who knows if it is, might as well dig a little deeper and see if rangy is gonna get some legs.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:38
crazytimes (Not sure what to make of this...From Bill Murphy...) ID#344326:
Copyright © 1998 crazytimes/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I will also report tomorrow that Long Term Capital has been let out of their 300-375 tonne short gold position by another central bank. This is part of what I have been talking about in my Midas du Metropole commentary.
In some sense this has cleared the way for gold to start moving up again has our government could not let that happen before Long Term got out or their entire bail out plan would have gone up in smoke. They were trapped. One cannot just buy 300 to 375 tonnes of gold. That purchase would have put Long Term right back in the tank.
This is very bullish in a way. To put it in perspective,if a central bank sold 350 tonnes of gold at the market in the past, the price of gold might have gone down $60 per oz.
The price has barely budged.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:32
APH (Mooney - Silver) ID#255226:
Try buying Dec Silver tomorrow 5.09 with a 5.04 stop.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:26
weiser (To Kitco. Are we at a point in history where no one knows what exactly) ID#202123:
is happening. Can anyone forecast the future, even in hours, as far as the worlds markets are concerned. Is this s**t coming down on us now really that bad. In two years are we going to laugh at this, and feel good about where we are .

If things are as bad as what I have read here, then a person better have enough resources for 5 to 7 years--- and I haven't. Which really bothers me. Am I the only one who is not ready for this break down.

Until I came here10 months ago, I thought I had things pretty well in hand--- but now, I'm just scared and not sure.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:26
Pete (weiser, sig-N.E. Ohio) ID#222231:
Copyright © 1998 Pete/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I'm from the Cleveland area. That alone should alert all to my quirks! The weather is beautiful this time of year. We get changes 3 to 4 weeks earlier than you southerners. I can hardly wait to: ( My wife is a slave driver who wants the yard as immaculate as the house ) .

Cleanup leaves from a couple dozen huge maples, oaks, tulips, magnolias and dogwoods.

Clean and move the patio furniture in.

Cleanup a pond, gardens, pots, baskets, gutters and God knows what else.

Move and replant hostas, dwarf trees, rhodes and azaelias.

Plant more friggin bulbs.

All of the above while freezing my arse off and probably while its raining also.

Hopefully my sgoly and rangy recently acquired plus my other investments will make it all worth while.

Keep the Sun shining,


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:23
zeke (@sig & weiser) ID#25257:
We love the Buckeyes here in 'ol Blorida! Will never forget the New Orleans Sugar Bowl 2 years ago when a Buckeye win allowed The Gators to play the Florida State Seminoles for National championship. In New Orleans we ran up to FSU fans and yelled, Buckeye! They just ran off horrorstricken.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:21
MoReGoLd (@AU) ID#348286:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold producers offer cautious optimism for future

By Paul Simao

DENVER, Oct 6 ( Reuters ) - The world's largest gold producers will be breathing a little easier when they gather this week in Denver amid signs that investors no longer view gold as a four-letter word.

Written off during the past year as an investment with little upside, the yellow metal has made a respectable comeback after weathering its worst crisis in two decades and trying the patience of even the most fervent gold bugs.

Gold has stabilized close to the psychologically important $300-an-ounce level after it spent much of the summer plumbing the depths near $270 an ounce.

It traded at $296.00 an ounce on Tuesday.

Traditionally viewed as the ideal hedge, or safe haven, against political crisis and inflation, gold relinquished that role during the past year as it snapped through a series of record lows despite rising turmoil in emerging markets.

Gold staged a short-lived rally late last year after Asian currencies were sharply devalued, but it was a momentary reprieve as investors soon deserted bullion in favor of the U.S. dollar and U.S. dollar-denominated securities.

Gold's fall from grace was heightened by the sale of hundreds of tonnes of bullion by central banks in Europe, Asia and Australia.

A year later gloom has given way to guarded optimism as industry insiders prepare to gauge gold's future at the Denver Gold Group's annual conference.

``There's certainly a lot more hope and a feeling of rejuvenation that we've had over the last few weeks, but people do realize that we're still in a difficult period. I think $300 ( an ounce ) gold is not exactly a cause for celebration,'' said Douglas Cohen, an analyst with Morgan Stanley Dean Witter in New York.

Analysts now generally forecast gold will hover around $300 an ounce for the remainder of 1998, rising to $325 an ounce next year.

Gold's modest make-over is inextricably linked to a weaker U.S. dollar. The U.S. currency, the world's undisputed safe haven of choice, has strengthened in the past year as panicky investors have fled turbulent international markets in search of a secure place to park their money.

The rush to hold U.S. dollars spelled disaster for gold.

The vast majority of gold purchases occur outside the United States. Gold, however, is denominated in U.S. dollars and every uptick in the U.S. currency makes it less affordable than it once was in traditional markets such as India.

The rage to buy U.S. dollars softened last week when the U.S. Federal Reserve cut interest rates in a bid to offset the impact of a global economic downturn on the U.S. economy.

The U.S. dollar fell and gold soon touched $300 an ounce.

``If you're thinking about the No. 1 most likely catalyst for an improved gold price environment, weakness in the U.S. dollar would be the one,'' Cohen said.

A sudden plunge in the value of equity markets, prompted by fears that financial turmoil in Asia and Russia, will soon spread to the Americas, has added to investor jitters.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average has shed about 11 percent of its value in the past two months, while London's FTSE index has declined 17 percent. Tokyo's Nikkei 225 average is down roughly 18 percent during the same period.

``People are getting hurt in the equity markets and they are looking for other places to put their money and obviously gold is getting some attention,'' said Daniel McConvey, an analyst with Goldman Sachs & Co. in New York.

Keenly aware that a bear market may be fast approaching, investors have gravitated to safer investments, such as certificates of deposit and bonds. Some are taking a close look at temptingly cheap gold stocks.

Holding gold during a global economic downdraft has more than a shred of basis in history. The shares of major gold mining producers, San Francisco-based Homestake Mining Co. ( NYSE:HM - news ) , for instance, jumped more than 700 percent during the 1929 stock market crash, a time when most stocks declined 90 percent.

This time it is Canada's Barrick Gold Corp. ( Toronto:ABX.TO - news ) and Denver-based Newmont Mining Corp. ( NYSE:NEM - news ) , which appear to be poised to capitalize on a sustained gold rally.

Barrick's shares have soared to C$32.50 after touching a 52-week low of C$20.10 in August.

Newmont, North America's largest gold producer, traded at $28.12 a share on Tuesday, up from about $13 a share five weeks ago.

Analysts, however, warned the current enthusiasm for gold could implode as fears of increasing gold production out of Australia, Canada and South Africa and concerns about the fate of Russian gold reserves overtake investors.

Russia's central bank could sell some of its gold reserves in a desperate bid to extricate the embattled nation from its profound economic crisis.

( $1 equals $1.56 Canadian )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:20
HighRise (Restart Modem) ID#401460:

I may have found a partial solution to Kitco. I was having one heck of a time when I just shut down the computerand restarted - this reinitialized or tised my modem. No problem so far. We will see how long this last.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:20
Speed (mapleman) ID#29048:
Here is one site:

Here is Polarbears' site:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:20
Rolly (BCIWIN Your 18:43 Post) ID#41338:
I'm with ya all da way to $308 and then some. Maybe we'll see it this week. Lookin good tonight anyways.
I noticed ABX closed near its trading day high today despite the fact that gold was down $.70 today. This is usually a good indication of an anticipated gold rally for tomorrow. The reason I say this is because the smart money tends to play this stock. I really follow the trading patterns of this stock closely.



Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:17
HighRise (sig (weiser buckeye)) ID#401460:

How about those BUCKEYES! They kind of shut down the Nittany Lions last Saturday.

Weiser, Central Ohio, where a bouts?


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:15
Obsidian (Gnutz: Bread is *always* worth more than Gold if your hungry.) ID#237299:
If systems fail to the point where distribution is seriously harmed, our ounces of yellow will worthless without food.

Someone a week or so ago posted a wonderful dialogue ( It sounded like it came from Plato's Republic ) wherein a fictional conversation between Socrates and another fellow continued along that argument.

Initially the one chap maintained that value or worth were fixed and through locigal argument Socrates showed him that worth was a relative thing always.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:08
mapleman (RANGY) ID#348127:


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:04
zeke (Thanks G.D.) ID#25257:
I wish all of my Minors looked as good as these. For now, it looks like the Afrikaaners are going to lead the pack. I've been trying to glean some ASL below 8 1/2 for some time: Today it sproinged through 10 with no problem--high coefficient of restitution, huh? Here's hoping all the Kitco Bugs grab their favorite issues before we leap for freedom. I have no doubt that Freedom Gold is immediately over the horizon. Just remember--No boasting, and when we get to the top, be charitable. Break a leg!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 21:00
silver plate (Y2K - shades of things to come) ID#289466:
I pay bills thru on line banking. Just tried to make a recurring payment beyond the year 2000. NO go. Called the bank ( and its a BIG one ) they said that they are y2k compliant but their server company is only 85% so and as of now they will not accept payments beyond 12-31-99. So what else wont work?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:54
sig (weiser buckeye) ID#288436:
October is the best month for weather here in Cincinnati as well. I wonder just how many kitcoites are from the buckeye state. I think highrise is from columbus.

POG holding well considering large run-up from last week. However, could reverse course soon if the spin from the IMF, World Bank, Clinton Klan gets traction. Donald's XAU/spot ratio is also stretched a bit. Gold needs to move rapidly toward the xau to avoid a serious sell-off of gold stocks. Franco-Nevada is a smooth riding vehicle for cruising the gold equities -- all the speed at way low risk.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:47
Gold Dancer (Zeke) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My only point realy is to suggest that you own both. Rangy is
more a value to buy now than Drooy. Don't know why Rangy has not
moved yet but I have seen this before. Take advantage of Rangy. But
hold Drooy if you can.

Don't know of any other hot ways of owning. I like to keep it
simple. Rangy is like an option at this price with no expiration date!!
There is no reason to buy options on any gold investment when one can
purchase a stock like Rangy for under a $1. IMHO.
I think when Rangy goes it will go fast. Then we will all wonder
what the fuss was all about. And be pissed that we didn't own more!!

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:45
EJ (Stupid, stupid, stupid) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
How NOT to handle your World Leaders Save Global Capitalism Campaign

- Allow individual members to take public positions on what OTHER members need to do, e.g., Clinton/Greenspan/Rubin: If ONLY those Japanese would clean up THEIR act ( We all know how well the blame game works in a fight with the missus. Escalation is the ONLY option. )

- Set absurd expectations, as in, We'll form a World Bank. Yeh. That's it! A World F*CKIN BANK! Duh. The Europeans can't even decide who's to run the Euro bank for a few years at a stretch without the French jumping in with a hold-our-breath-until-we-turn-back-to-dollars tantrum.

- Show maximum seriousness by drinking and schoozing publically at cocktail parties with the world press. Did they do this at the original Bretton Woods meeting after WWII? Maybe, but they sure were careful not to let that image get out to the public.

One stupid move after another. Sheesh.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:44
Donald (Black-Scholes being used to price silver options.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:41
Gold Dancer (Zeke) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My only point realy is to suggest that you own both. Rangy is
more a value to buy now than Drooy. Don't know why Rangy has not
moved yet but I have seen this before. Take advantage of Rangy. But
hold Drooy if you can.

Don't know of any other hot ways of owning. I like to keep it
simple. Rangy is like an option at this price with no expiration date!!
There is no reason to buy options on any gold investment when one can
purchase a stock like Rangy for under a $1. IMHO.
I think when Rangy goes it will go fast. Then we will all wonder
what the fuss was all about. And be pissed that we didn't own more!!

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:40
HighRise (Goldman Sachs will Inflate ) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

1st. - Summers of Goldman Sachs says we don't have to worry about inflation any more we have to inflate the economy.

2nd. - Goldman Sachs upgrades ABX and NEM.

I would venture a guess, that if they really mean what they are saying, and we have no reason to assume they want to risk any more loss of credibility, that they are going to really crank up the presses at Goldman Sach's R. Rubin's US treasury.



Clinton's people don't lie do they?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:31
G-Nutz (Speaking of End times...) ID#433143:
isnt bread supposed to be worth more than gold in the end times? heh
now does this mean bread will stay the same and gold will cost less $2.00 or that gold will be worthless and only food will matter? hrmm which is the best scenario? : ) )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:30
Jack () ID#252127:

Many of the Yahoo quotes are showing prices for Sept 17.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:30
zeke (Gold Dancer, Re: Rangy vs Drooy) ID#25257:
Of course at my age I understand sell-and-buy. I simply thought you had some knowledge about a like-kind trade since these two issues are in the same hat--a sort of lateral arabesque in securities. I agree, Rangy has to do something soon; with so many proponents, how could it not?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:29
tolerant1 (Which of the below is not a dirtbag, Un-American piece of garbage....10 seconds...) ID#31868:
Lord John Maynard Keynes, Jeffrey Garten, Tony Blair, William Jefferson Clinton, Michel Camdesuss, Thomas Jefferson...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:27
zeke (Gold Dancer, Re: Rangy vs Drooy) ID#25257:
Of course at my age I understand sell-and-buy. I simply thought you had some knowledge about a like-kind trade since these two issues are in the same hat--a sort of lateral arabesque. I agree, Rangy has to do something soon; with so many proponents, how could it not?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:27
STUDIO.R ('s to all the gOldbugs we have known...........) ID#119358:
( gulp ) ( puff ) ( gulp ) ( puffz ) ........just since I've been one, many goOdbugs have perished on the windshield of the central bankers' armored car...... ( gulp ) ........but one day soon, they will have to climb out and clean the blinding bug'o'guts off the shield....and then, we will have them! Si'......All bankers must some day return to the bugs.

Have we known of this bug? ( quoting rich ) ....I am so sure that I am loading up with physical, calls, and mining shares...if it goes lower I will buy more... yes....we know of this goOd bug. salud!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:21
weiser (Hello to all here at Kitco!!!) ID#202123:
In central Ohio, it is a beautiful night. A cool crisp night. You can feel autumn's breath nipping at the trees leaves. It's very invigorating being in the midist of this gloriest time of the year

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:20
Donald (German bankers opposed to IMF global forex proposal.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:07
MoReGoLd (@BillD) ID#348286:
Dec Future now +1.50 . Bart must be right........

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:05
contrarian (gold 298!) ID#203236:
as i se it gold can only go up. If they do nothing -- finsncial collapse and gold goes up. If they print the presses then hyper inflation and gold goes up. they will not risk the worldwide instability continue into massive deflation and unemployment.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:03
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste'...gulps and puffs O keeper of the 24ct driveway...I have been) ID#31868:
out in the compound at Cuervo Central igniting anti-Clintler and anti-Camdesuss the dog defiler...candles...with the Cuervo Shaman...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 20:02
Gold Dancer (Zeke) ID#377196:
Just like the rest of us. In the open market. You know, sell one and
buy the other. I think it is a mistake to do this, though. RANGY is
just about ready to take off on it's magic flight.


Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:59
ravenfire (news bits from HK - bad opinion on Japan...) ID#333126:

We are telling our clients to ditch yen assets as quickly as they can.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:57
rich (@bcwin $308 gold easy this month) ID#411320:
I am so sure that I am loading up with physical, calls, and minning shares...if it goes lower I will buy more if it goes higher, then
I will hold until $320 maybe.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:57
zeke (DROOY for RANGY) ID#25257:
Gold Dancer,
Please tell me how to trade my mangy RANGY in on some good 'ol DROOY. My DROOY seems to be much healthier. Thanks.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:56
Gold Dancer (Polarbear: DROOY/RANGY) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It is not a question of which is better. The BEST thing for
Father Kebble to do is to merge both companies together. What a
powerhouse that would be. There would be the 1,000,000 oz of production
with lots of potential with all of Rangold Res. properties.

That would add lots of low cost gold and, well, you know what I

The combined company would be worth today 2 to 3 times what it is
selling for now. Since RANGY is low cost with more low cost exploration
potential than DROOY I think a 1 for 1 exchange is appropriate at
about $2.50 a share. Drooy has great support at $2.50 on the chart
and that is a fair NAV for RANGY.

What do you want to bet that this is going to happen? I think so
before too long. It's in the charts.

IMHO that is what Kebble should do now.

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:37
Gold Dancer (Tantalus Rex) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since all these theives know each other I think you are correct
in your thinking. When the people figure this out all hell will break
out in the gold market.

The powers in charge are about to lose control. But since they
personally probably own a lot of gold, I don't think they will care.
If they did, what could they do about it?

I suppose they could close the gold market but to what purpose?

SO, I conclude that the fun and games are about to begin in earnest.

I think the pull back in the golds is over but more sideways is
possible. I have not sold a thing.

However, yesterday, I did trade 2000 DROOY for 9000 RANGY.

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:25
STUDIO.R (@SDRer........let's open up with CrossRoads........) ID#119358:
and moooove right into Whippin' Post.............set your volume knob on eleven ( JD likes dat number...and loud ) ......the people are scared, yes, and full'o'fear...five-wire fences will not stop the stampede.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:23
BillD (Is Bart's quotes of Gold up $2.20 correct/) ID#261295:

Futures only up .60-.80 or so.

what's da truth

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:19
Squirrel (MM - shucks! I thought Gold Backed Dollars) ID#280214:
would be worth more - perhaps even a few dollars more.
So much for great ideas. Then again -
Some discerning collectors may feel Gold Backed Dollars
are worth a few dollars more. Maybe it would be worth
our while to explore this avenue.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:19
Tantalus Rex (IMF selling gold as LTC must purchase gold) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Since there is a a very high probability that LTC has shorted 12 Million ounces of Gold ( 375 tons ) , LTC must re-purchase this gold form somewhere?

It may now seem likely that the IMF will bail out LTC in that the IMF will sell its gold to them. The IMF will then use the fiat money from this sale and give it to the nations in need.

LTC will then return the gold to the CB's who 'LOANED' the gold to them in the first place.

Poor nations get paper from the IMF which can be viewed as a commodity cause toilet paper is dwindling in those countries.
The CB's get gold back at inflated prices as they loaned gold to LTC fools at basement low prices.
LTC gets burned and rightly so.
The Domino Effect from the LTC fiasco begins to riplle worldwide and gold hits $2000-$3000 an ounce.

Peter Ward of Lehman Brothers gets fired.
Abby Cohen is placed in a mental institution.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:16
SDRer (Studio.R--Watching Bart's gold guage up 2.20) ID#290172:
and a-thinking, this may be the quintessential test of free
markets...BigPlayer's plans blown asunder by little people. Wow! Could it happen?
Strength in numbers? Strength in fear? What times we live in. Pass the
thermos please. And play us a tune? {:- ) ) Music to win by?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:15
STUDIO.R (@T#1..........) ID#119358:
are you dead?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:09
Donald (Kinross news) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:09
Nicodemus (Hello Earl: Consider that in the philosophy of science there is a part of it's reasoning) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
that requires the use of both the postulative and the pragmatic. Consider how can a question of function be asked unless thier is first a consideration of miricle or simply not understood mechanism. This is a common dicotomy in the sciences.
Questions beg answers, answers beg questions.
Fiat is an abstract just like the thought of a Nation State and authority.
Gold seems to be the corilary, reality. But even as discussed on this forum gold's value is not nessasarily intrinsic, it is measured at different levels of perception, need and times. We measure it by wieght, but does that equate it's value?
No it is a constant that gets remeasured in every era. Thus the need for both
the pragmatism and the figuritive or ilusive. One always seems to beg the question from the other.
Earl, Are you long or short gold?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:08
SDRer (Korondy-Jumping Geehoseaphats! ) ID#290172:
Now you done gone and told them jes how ta do it!
Great piece tho, for which thanks! {:- ) )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:08
STUDIO.R (@NicOdemus........let's go out'ona'limb......) ID#119358:
yup........Iffin' ol' Eddie GayLord, owner of da' paper, is short a leeeetle gold.....ol' studio may be printin' dem classifieds......salud! studio.gutenburg

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:05
Tantalus Rex (XAU Today) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ABX-Barrick Gold------CLOSED AT $21.1250 0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.38
ASL-Ashanti Gold-----CLOSED AT $10.5000 1.0000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.35
BMG-Battle Mountain---CLOSED AT $06.1875 0.5625 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.42
CDE-Coeur D'Alene----CLOSED AT $06.9375 0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.02
FCX-Freeport Mc------CLOSED AT $11.8125 -0.0625 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.04
GGO-Getchell Gold-----CLOSED AT $19.1250 0.5625 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.06
HL-Hecla Mining--------CLOSED AT $04.8125 0.3750 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.07
HM-Homestake Gold---CLOSED AT $13.6875 0.8750 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.60
NEM-Newmont Mining-CLOSED AT $28.0625 0.8125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.41
PDG-PlacerDome Gold-CLOSED AT $15.1250 0.1875 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.15

XAU CLOSED AT 80.76 2.45

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 19:01
Earl (Obsidian:) ID#227238:
I know whereof you speak. I am the proud owner of one those 4000+ lbs monsters. It did indeed take a low boy trailer with a forklift to move it on two occasions. ...... and as you say, the easiest way to open it is with a gun to the owners head. ...... I've thought about that problem a lot. But, that's still better than being robbed by our duly elected officials at an official safe deposit box opening.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:58
STUDIO.R (@SDRer.O............) ID#119358:
rock steady, baby..........salud! y un GulpO y un PuffO to YA!!!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:56
HighRise (G O GOLD!) ID#401460:

Tuesday October 6, 6:23 pm Eastern Time

Summers Says Economic Growth Priority Now
Rather Than Fighting Inflation


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:56
Nicodemus (The Oklahoman will be accepting payments for ads in gold!) ID#335379:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:54
Earl (Nicodemus:) ID#227238:
I have a great deal of respect for the thoughts in your 18:45. There is a literal and a figurative. Each should be confined to their respective spere and not allowed to be confused, one with the other.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:53
MM (Hmmmm,) ID#350179:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:52
STUDIO.R (@korOndy.........) ID#119358:
uhHuH.........Soros is the world's undertaker.....profiting from plagues.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:52
contrarian (gold price ) ID#203236:
I agree, intraday support held last night. 308 very good possibility soon. but watch the selling at 320

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:51
Donald (Hedge Fund news that was discussed at Kitco many days ago.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:47
Obsidian (Skinny and General @ safes) ID#237299:
Copyright © 1998 Obsidian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tis true, gun safes and fire safes are nothing more than metal clad boxes which give no real theft protection. Even the old style massive, heavy, single dial safes were no good. ( you could shear off the dial with a correctly placed blow straight down, then with one man holding a cold punch, the dial and guts could be punched inwards through the security plate. total elapsed time about 3 minutes, no need to move the safe at all )

The best safes within bugdet are those rated with an undrewriters laboratory code. Preferably the TRTL30X6 or TRTL60X6. These mean the safe would withstand constant torch and tool attack on all 6 sides for 30 minutes and 60 minutes respectively.

This is not your average torch and chisel either, but high tech, high speed diamond cutting wheels and zillion degree cutting rods. Very loud.

If the would be theifs get through in this manner they have probably triggered the re-locking mechanism wich adds a further complication, and basically seals the safe for a *very long time*.

Inside the doors and walls are glass plates, easily shattered which release springs that slam patent-process ultra hard pins in all the walls. If this fails, there is a cross webbing of nylon filiment which control a second action on these pins. If heat melts the filiment-presto the pins sink shut.

These are tough nuts to crack.

But there is one easy way in---simply hold a gun to the owner's head and entry can usually be granted in a few minutes.

I have moved, installed and de-installed several safes in my businesses and this last point is particularly valid. For these monsters weigh 4000 lbs, take a tractor trailor to move into position, a forklift to get down and a palate jack to move inside the building. In the process of doing this, one usually attracks such a mass of experts on moving things and the curious-- that you might as well hang out neon lights proclaming, Rob me

I still think the coffee can in the garden is probably the safest.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:47
Nicodemus (Excellent Korondy, Excellent...) ID#335379:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:45
SDRer (JTF: re--How close to the gates do the barbarians have to get?) ID#286249:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The view from here is a somewhat different: Germany and France believe the barbarians got through the gates sometime ago. [griny thing] They, in their Euro-heart-of-hearts, see Brazil/Latin America as a US banking problem. They see much of the fiat turmoil as a consequence of many years of US policy. It might be a stretch to suggest that the European view is one of sympathetic concern.

Europe's efforts will be directed toward the Euro's safe birthing. Twenty-five years of planning are dependent on the next 75 days +/-, plus the time it takes to redenominate debt after the 1st of January.

They will do whatever they must do ( or feel they must do ) to get this done.[See Old Gold's Forbes ad as a perfect example of what to expect in the coming days].

They must maintain the gold box. To maintain gold box they may well allow a small sale of IMF gold. They know, as do the rest of the players, the sale of IMF gold weakens the IMF and strengthens the system not. It would be an futile gesture. As Peter Cook once remarked, Sometimes the world needs a futile gesture.

Globalization of finance, commonality of purpose, reminds one of an old Chinese proverb: a common courtyard is swept by no one.

This simple paragraph, by no one particular famous or expert, articulates some truths with daunting clarity:

Growth as a dangerous Pyramid Scheme. What is it? When and how can it stop, without resulting in decay? Production has traditionally been a process of Natural resources-made into- Product -made into - Waste, and has been more adaptable for large-scale products than for supply of services. Now this consumption goal is being challenged. An economic system that relies on Growth Unending is the biggest Pyramid Scheme ever, and it must end, like all Pyramid schemes, in disastrous collapse. Growth should only go as far as it is needed to meet people's real needs - and after that, improve quality of life without increasing consumption.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:45
Nicodemus (Hello Earl: Apologies, Gold seems to be related to almost everything! All interested can go to ) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

We now return to our regularly scheduled gold chat.
If there is some gold in a forest, and noone is there to see it, does it still have any value?
Say wasn't the bible speeking figurativly about that gold?
It does say that wisdom is to be sought after more than fine gold.
Maybe if I had a little more wisdom my investments would not look so wieghted down by gold's lackluster performance.{:- )

So the evil/vile bankers are finally admitting there is a problem.
And that article in Forbes about Germans selling thier gold, Hog jowels!!!
Das Mulen Friteren....Baloney.....
Gold, the truth about money

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:45
korondy (Central Bank of the Universe) ID#222186:
Copyright © 1998 korondy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So Ali Baba and his 40 central bankers meeting in DC have this bright idea: what the world needs is a World Central Bank. Now, why didn't we think of that?

Even though the world needs a central bank about as much as it needs another moon, I regret to say that it is inevitable. Here is how it plays.

Let's face it, the ECU is a reality. What are the other parts of the world going to do, without a trading block to call their own? NAFTA cannot pass the test -- it doesn't even a regional currency, does it? Regional currencies are a wonderful idea. Piles more paper, 100% secured by liabilities of thy neighbor. Imagine how much more paper the hedge funds would be able to borrow, sell, and invest the proceeds in zero-coupon, perpetual bonds secured by the full faith and credit of Tajikistan's higher education institutions. Irresistible!

Our bretheren is Asia will catch on pretty soon, just give them a little more time and pressure on their currencies. Then they will come up with the original idea of the Asian Economic Community, and will issue forth lots and lots of ACUs: Asian Currency Units. ACUs will be backed by 30% Useless Dollars, 30% ECUs, and 40% sake.

The Americas, by then, will have about as much as they can take. They, too, will issue forth a regional currency of their very own, called the American Currency Unit. Since the acronym of ACU is already taken, we will just call it the American Unit, or AU. The AU will be 100% backed by the ECU, the ACU, and lunar real estate.

All will be well. Except for the Aussies and the Kiwis, who will not be able to figure out how all the THC got into the drinking water of the northern hemisphere. They will develop sophisticated computer models to arbitrage between the ECU, the ACU and the AU based on their advantage of time zones and become phenomenally wealthy.

The powers that be will not let this go on for too long. They will argue, between periods of running to the kitchen for fresh munchies, that the relationship between regional currencies must be regulated. An oversight body will be established, called the Central Bank of the Universe, with the mission of ensuring continuous equilibrium between regional currencies and librium. The president will be George Soros -- after all, if you can't trust a Hungarian, whom can you trust?

So, you see, the paper chase goes on. At least unitl we either form the Central Bank of the Universe, or stop taking our medication once and for all.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:43
BCIWN (Gold $308!!!) ID#259323:
Ok everybody,I am thinking that gold is now going to make an assault on the $308.00 spot level. Lets see if it has enough strength to punch through and make $308 its support. Is anybody thinking the same as me?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:40
Earl (EZ Believer:) ID#227238:
Who dat knockin'? .... Knock, knock, knockin' on ma chamber door. Knock, knock, knock ........ and nothing more. ....... Is it imposssible to be remain a believer, all by yourself. Alone. Without everyone else believing as well? Apparently so.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:40
Jack (Aurizon Mines and Richmont Mines too) ID#237264:

Aurizon's 3rd quarter production costs are predicted to be below $200.

This bodes well for Richmont Mines who controls Louvem, Aurizon's the 50% partner at Beaufor.

Richmont itself operates two other 100% owned and profitable mines and is unrecognized by gold investors.

Richmont should have cash flow of about $1.35 Canadian which isn't bad for a $3.90 to $4.00 Canadian stock.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:39
ROR (Any talk of dumping) ID#412286:
Gold is a dangerous game for an institution in this environment. LTCM makes all such statements suspicious and likely to result in an opposite response IMHO. Why peotest about something that has moved so little for so long unless one is short. IMHO

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:36
EZ Believer (Earl .......Knock.....Knock.....Knock) ID#226287:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:35
STUDIO.R (@streets'o'gOld.........) ID#119358:
my old man's been up there for four years, by the time ya'll get up there, you'll be strollin' streets'o'potholes.......uhHuH. he do likes dat gOld........

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:35
Suspicious (Earl: Who did that criticism benifit. ) ID#285121:
( ! )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:34
CPO@AU (Old Gold( Gold bears Run full page OR run for cover (ID#324325 Why Indeed) ID#329186:
Copyright © 1998 CPO@AU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I guess we should take this as an admission that There is less gold in germany than they would like us to think It will be interesting how the german's ( non politico's ) take this.

STUDIO.R ( war of dissinformation. ) Ja wird gemacht ~ Deutsche Sol angste haben....... if the locals smell a rat ( there must be a few that remember Hyperinflation ) they may try to buy the rumour

Nicodemus ( Your topic )
I have just started to read Gods of The new Millennium very very interesting its by Alan F Alford ISBN 0 340 69613 3
the cover sums it well the shattering truth of human origins

Help Please
I have been asked for a reliable Bullion dealer in the Philipines guess it must be manilla can anyone help TKDS in adv

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:34
HopeFull (POLAR BEAR, RANGY looks great, but what about delisting issue, by end of year) ID#402148:


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:32
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .272. The 233 day moving average is .247

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:31
Earl (Studio R:) ID#227238:
A place in the mountains, you say? ..... Consider it done, Little Grasshopper. I know that you have indeed suffered mightily and are deserving of the the very best. ...... Circular drive, paved in gold Not a problem, my son. Ask and Ye shall receive. .......... All in the fullness of time. .... of course.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:30
EZ Believer (Yes Vhale...From the Lord Jesus Christ...who paves his streets with gold!) ID#226287:

Rev 3:18

I advise your to buy from me GOLD refined by fire,
that you may become rich, and white garments that
you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your
nakedness may not be revealed: and eye salve to
anoint your eyes, that you may see.

Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My
voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and
will dine with him and he with me.

Come into my heart lord Jesus.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:29
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 26.11. The 233 day moving average is 28.63

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:26
STUDIO.R (@EarlO.........yup.........) ID#119358:
We probably shouldn't get too concerned with these nazi this time next year, these bastards won't have enough mula to pay for a classified in the Daily Oklahoman.......leeeetle piss ants.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:26
Earl (Attention Pod People:) ID#227238:
Witnessing one's religious faith is totally uncalled for here. For those with the uncontrollable desire to inform the rest of us of their unwavering committment to the unknowable; please practice a bit of restraint. Tomorrow bein' Wednesday, I'm sure there'll be a prayer meetin' somewhere, tomorrow nite and you'll be among fellows who will welcome you with open arms. ... or something like that.

In the meantime, if raptured, please leave yer gold at the door fer the rest of us. ........ Streets paved with gold? Harumph!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:23
Nicodemus (Hello Silver baron: ( gee I hope thats true of you!)) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This discovery does not present old earth creation with any problems. I have no trouble with bipedal creatures like man here at differrent times.
Check out the Reasons to believs page, at
It certainly does not give much of an argument for young earth though. Because it is far more likely that the data will show both the foot print and the dino print to be quite old. Not young.
Don't forget, Darwinian scientists thought the universe was eternal or old enough for speceation or gradual luck/advance/decline/change, an idea that came falsely from the church. And that the christians
have used one mans interpretation ( Ushers Chronoligy ) to make the opposite mistaken interpretation of short time spans. Even 18 billion years is not enough time for evolution but it's a whole lot longer than 100,000 years.
Taylor also seems to focused on one discovery, one needs to take into account an awful lot of information to start postulating cohesive theories.
A classic amiture hour idea is to say God made it to look old. Give me a break!
That would go against the bibles description of His character. Describing Him as deceptive. Complicated yes but not deceptive.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:20
Mole (Ashanti) ID#34883:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:19
STUDIO.R (@pOlarbear.........a $2.00 move in POR..........(price'o'rangitO)..) ID#119358:
and ol' studio will have da' cash'n'hand to purchase that beeeeeg mountain home I need badly. salud! done deal.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:15
Open-Loop (@skinny@General... Gun Safes...) ID#176200:
Copyright © 1998 Open-Loop/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I would agree that most cheapo gun safes and floor safes are not very safe from theft. Mostly good for keeping the children away from the guns.

However, have you ever looked at Liberty Safe Co. line of gun safes?
These are very impressive and way to heavy to cart off even by a bunch
of thieves. They have a superb fire rating and the top of the line
president series 25 cubic foot model weighs in at around 2500 lbs empty.
They can also be bolted down to the floor and are beautiful pieces.
Used models have actually increased in value and seem to be a good
investment by themselves. I have looked at many of them and this line
is the best value by far.

I see way too many sheet metal, tack welded together gun safes that
I would stay away from. K-Mart sells them for under 100 bucks. Liberty
safes start at around $1500 and up depending on size and features.
They also carry some kind of U.L. tamper rating.

Regards, O.L.

Of course, not speaking for my employer.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:14
Earl (Studio R:) ID#227238:
LOL, .... I like that idea a lot. A full page add that points out banker ineptitude. Whadda concept!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:12
Highhopes (EVERYONE is calling for a really bad October.) ID#404410:
I've never seen an October that has been given soo much bad publicity, such as this one. I'm betting, therefore, that it won't be nearly as bad as EVERYONE is projecting.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:07
Highhopes (vhale -- Count me in; I want to walk those streets of gold, being a Christian myself) ID#404410:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:05
Copyright © 1998 POLARBEAR/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
John, I’ve got an email request in to RANDGOLD for up-to-date numbers, but the correspondence I received recently stated total Liabilities of 330 mill rand, and from this you need to subtract the 60 Million RAND coming this month from the SUF diamond deal. Also, the last figures I have for Harmony options were over 4 Million of them, but I’ll check again on this. Overall prices seem to be pretty close to April when RANGY themselves stated a NAV of over 1100. The only exception would be the lower price of RRS, which is the grossest undervalued asset in the entire portfolio. In either case, whether its 700, 900, or 1100, the fact that it is selling for 395 makes it a steal. Heck, even with your current estimate of 600, it should be trading 50% higher than present levels. And remember, they are drilling Phase 4 of MORILA this month. I’m sure you recall Ali mentioning this often, the “Thrilla in Morila” haven’t you?
They’ve drilled up over 2.2 Million ounces of incredibly cheap ore in under 9 months. The last phase added a Million ounces. This find IMO is even more important than SYAMA, with costs estimated at $118, this gives RANGY a huge buffer on the downside, should gold drop. Including construction costs, I’m looking for total cost of around $160-170 an ounce. Can you say CASH COW….

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:02
vhale (Preacher - As a Christian myself, I can't wait) ID#424424:
until I see those streets of pure gold.

Yes, Heaven has been a buyer of the yellow stuff for some time now, 'bout two thousand years.

Jesus said it best in John 14. Do not let your hearts be troubled,

trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many

rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to

prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I

will come back and take you to be with me that you may be where I am.

A quote from the gold buyer Himself......

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 18:02
Mole (New World Disorder) ID#34883:
Investor's Business Daily
New World Disorder
Date: 10/6/98

As International Monetary Fund ministers meet to discuss financial bailouts
this week, they no doubt will dismiss the fact that reckless actions by
central banks helped cause the financial mess in the world. Instead, serious
consideration will be given to the creation of a global central bank.

Why? Because devotees of Lord John Maynard Keynes have been priming the
policy pump with calls for just such a move.

Yale University's Dean of the School of Management Jeffrey Garten is a case
in point. The New York Times reported his fretting about the economic storms
in certain parts of the world. He's upset that the U.S. hasn't done
something - in other words, bailed out everybody. So Garten wants the world
to erect ''a global central bank.''

Sadly, he's not alone.

President Clinton told the Council on Foreign Relations that the time had
come for a new global financial ''architecture.'' British Prime Minister
Tony Blair told anyone who would listen the same thing.

Billionaire fund-ster George Soros wants a global bank regulatory agency,
like the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. in the U.S., to be run by
''international financial authorities.'' Soros apparently doesn't recall
that our FDIC contributed to the savings and loan crisis, by subsidizing
risk through deposit insurance.

Soros also wants something like a global Fed to hold hands with the IMF and
the World Bank. Following the central banker's playbook, Soros also called
for ''liquidity,'' i.e., more bailouts, and the rollover of loans.

Congress must act to save the ''disintegration of the global capitalist
system,'' Soros said.

Capitalism is not a ''system,'' a machine that financial authorities can
tune. It's billions of decisions made by billions of people every second of
every day at all levels of society. Success and failure both give crucial
signals to other participants in the market.

In short, you can't plan a free market. It's when you try to plan the
economy that trouble starts.

For instance, Soros and Garten are fond of invoking the market crash of '29
and the Depression as problems only planning could have solved. Garten
claims that prior to the start of the Federal Reserve in '13 and later
''crucial central institutions'' such as the Securities and Exchange
Commission ( '33 ) and FDIC ( '34 ) , ''capitalism was an uncontrollable
Darwinian process.'' He adds that these ''crucial'' bodies ''were created to
make capitalism work, to prevent destructive business cycles and to moderate
the harsh, invisible hand of Adam Smith.''

But if that were true, then why didn't the Fed prevent the crash and why
didn't it and the SEC and FDIC halt the Depression? Precisely because the
Fed helped cause the Depression.

The Fed-induced credit expansion and contraction triggered the crash.
Attempts to control this economic storm with government programs and higher
taxes only made things worse. Central banks in Asia, Russia and South
America today have followed a similar pattern.

To follow the advice of Garten, et al., would only prolong and expand the
crisis. And, in the end, make the financial medicine more bitter.

( C ) Copyright 1998 Investors Business Daily, Inc.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:55
Silverbaron (Nicodemus ID#288295:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:53
STUDIO.R (@Old GOld.............) ID#119358:
The War of Disinformation......the kitcosa nostra should take a collection and place an ad that says German Bank stocks are not going up in the future...because their management are inept speculators. salud!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:46
Nicodemus (Hello Strad Master, all interested in off topic check out Reasons to believe. ) ID#335379:
I have read a few PHD's that conclude old earth creation, hot big bang,
biblical basis for understanding the scientific method, lack of evidence for evolution, no intermediate specie fossils, not enough time for random Chance, species not in large enough numbers to take advantage of mutations, universe
constantly expanding and slowing expansion, 10 dimensional space now evidentually with coby satalite and mathamaticaly seen through string theory.

Nicodemus, The truth is oft. difficult to find.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:33
STUDIO.R (@18:00 is the beswitching hour......) ID#119358:
evidently, that is when Bart's provider dedicates a router to kitco....until this time each day, we travel along the information gravel road.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:30
OLD GOLD (Gold Bears Run Full Page Ad in FORBES) ID#242325:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

They project that gold prices -- while not likely to collapse -- are not going up much either. To quote in the medium to long term, the price of gold is unlikley to rise significantly Industrial states and most developing states seem committted to a policy of low inflation.

Why would a major German bank run such an ad in FORBES magazine? Do they really believe this nonsense or are they trying to support a huge short position before it goes underwater?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:28
OLD GOLD (Gold Bears Run Full Page Ad in FORBES) ID#242325:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

They project that gold prices -- while not likely to collapse -- are not going up much either. To quote in the medium to long term, the price of gold is unlikley to rise significantly Industrial states and most developing states seem committted to a policy of low inflation.

Why would a major German bank run such an ad in FORBES magazine? Do they really believe this nonsense or are they trying to support a huge short position before it goes underwater?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:28
OLD GOLD (Gold Bears Run Full Page Ad in FORBES) ID#242325:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

They project that gold prices -- while not likely to collapse -- are not going up much either. To quote in the medium to long term, the price of gold is unlikley to rise significantly Industrial states and most developing states seem committted to a policy of low inflation.

Why would a major German bank run such an ad in FORBES magazine? Do they really believe this nonsense or are they trying to support a huge short position before it goes underwater?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:28
OLD GOLD (Gold Bears Run Full Page Ad in FORBES) ID#242325:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

They project that gold prices -- while not likely to collapse -- are not going up much either. To quote in the medium to long term, the price of gold is unlikley to rise significantly Industrial states and most developing states seem committted to a policy of low inflation.

Why would a major German bank run such an ad in FORBES magazine? Do they really believe this nonsense or are they trying to support a huge short position before it goes underwater?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:26
NightWriter (The Phillipine Geologist) ID#390415:
Copyright © 1998 NightWriter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When, for whatever reason, I threw a large COC ( chunk of change ) into AU stocks in March of 97, I noted on this site that for what seemed like a long time, when the POG was even, my holdings fell, when the POG went up, my holdings barely moved, and when the POG fell, my holdings fell like a Phillipine geologist.

Now, things are different: Gold stocks are giddily ignoring not only the POG but to a lesser extent the rest of the market as well.

George Cole said, In a bear market, all news is bad news.

Whatever the future holds, I will remember September 1998 as a month when nearly all news was good news for gold stocks.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:24
Cyclist (ARZ) ID#26467:
FWIW Cash operating cost has been brought down below 200,
due to the weak Canuckbuck.Cashflow 6 million and rising.
Casa Berardi is a infrastructure play.
Probability of the stock hitting 1 buck before the end of the year,
very likely.

John Disney:
SGOLY is becoming an candidate for people looking
for the higher yield in a golden jacket.
It used to pay out 1 to 1.50 dividend yearly with higher
gold prices, the stock was hitting 23.
I like its winter surges every three year,very profitable.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:22
skinny (General) ID#28994:
Gun safes are absolutely useless for safety from theft, so are most small safes used commercialy.
Good thieves steal the safe and contents and open them in there spare time.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:20
STUDIO.R (@EB.fone.home...........) ID#119358:
are you dead?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:19
TheMissingLink (The Future) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I find it odd that since last November, when the Asian crisis began, we at Kitco have been consistently stating that it would impact the rest of the world. Yet, if you went back to Alan Greenspans comments ( I wish I had the time ) he goes from testifying that it will have little or no impact, to it being a remote possibility yet potentially damaging, to being a low yet statistically signifigant probability, to shifting the focus completely from inflation to recession fighting.

Is it a matter of him not being completely candid? Or does he have too much data coming in, sometimes conflicting, and he made a wrong judgement? Or does he really have no idea what is coming next and is just reacting to events?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 17:03
James (Missing Link@U.S. Presidents--While Reagan made a major contribution) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
to the sorry state of todays economy, he's only one of a long list of incompetent stooges who are responsible for the comming collapse. LBJ was resposible for the huge buildup of debt while he was commiting genocide against the Viet Namese, that led to the high inflation 70s. I think that Jimmy Carter was the last President who was honest & had high moral standards, although his economic policies may have been misguided. The last great President, IMO, was Ike. He spoke out against the military/industrial complex & there was never any doubt that he would do the right thing, not just the expedient thing.
Your Country has been cursed with some of the World's worst leaders in recent times--possibly exceeded only by the duds who have irretrievably screwed up Canada beyond redemption.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:57
Strad Master (Off topic...) ID#250297:
Copyright © 1998 Strad Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
LGB & NICODEMUS: Great stuff! ( Not much to do with the POG, but we are in break waiting for Asia to open, right? ) I never knew there was a name Old Earth Creationism. Perfect! Has either of you read the book Genesis and the Big Bang by Gerald Schroeder PhD? He is a MIT physicist who postulates a real harmony between Biblical and cosmological explanations for creation. Interesting and provocative reading. BTW, the strict fundamentalist creationists have an insurmountable problem in explaining how everything could be created in seven 24 hour periods, when the sun, moon, and stars, by which time is perceived and measured, didn't even show up in the Genesis account until the fourth day. Dr.Schroeder addresses this problem with a fascinating theory in the aforementioned book.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:47
TheMissingLink (WOW!) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
``We are speaking not just of countries in crisis, but of a system in crisis, a system not yet sufficiently adapted to the opportunities and risks of globalization,'' Camdessus said.


Trade minister Kaoru Yosano said an additional 10 trillion yen ( $74.6 billion ) in fiscal spending was needed to help fill the gap between Japan's productive capacity and slumping demand.


The government's about-face follows recent admissions that the economy is on the brink of a deflationary spiral, with manufacturers retrenching from decades of over-production, a shaky banking system bloated with bad loans, global markets in turmoil and consumers left shell-shocked.

A deflationary spiral is a cycle of price falls leading to cuts in output, which in turn hurts employment, causing households to cut spending and prompting more price cuts.


Wow, not because Kitcoites did not already know all this, but wow, because the leaders are CONfessing this to the public. Is the CONfidence game over? Are the rats bailing out of a sinking ship?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:45
Oro (More signals) ID#71231:
Copyright © 1998 Oro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Closing signals:

DJIA still short term sell ( intraday-now overnight ) waiting for confirmation of a longer term sell signal ( 2-9 days ) .

DJUA still short term sell, longer term sell signal confirmed twice.

IIX still short term sell, longer term sell not quite confirmed, if confirmed, possible capitulation.

INX, MSH still short term sell from morning - looks like the pattern we had just before the XAU fell off the cliff.

Gold, held support line and rebounded. Bullish indeed.

XAU morning buy signal intact and longer term confirmed.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:45
oldgoldpanner (Jack - Aurizon) ID#197289:
There have been large purchases of shares by insiders over the past 6 months or so. Good sign. Mines are high cost producers. Insider trading is very positive but again it depends on POG. Good luck. Gotta run - back tomorrow.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:34
John Disney (seven come eleven ...) ID#24135:
For Cyclist ..
I liked your comments on Sgoly.. 7 is a good number.
Seven .. seven .. say it slowly .. savour it.. I like
seven. Seven would be nice.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:31
Gianni Dioro (Big Fisherman - A Silver Dollar for an acre) ID#384350:
Yep that's true. Prime farmland sold for less than a dollar an acre in the 30's for large lots. Shows how the dollar has been inflated. I wonder if we'll see that this time 'round - A Silver Dollar per acre. I need to get some Silver, before the financial Tsunami.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:20
MM (TEOTWAWKI - Cyclical Biblicals) ID#350179:
LGB - I'll bet Abby C. will say That's already been factored in!!!, I believe those markets are still undervalued by 88% to 75%.... We should be in for a real pleasant surprise by 2003.
SYLB ; )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:20
John Disney (D(esparately) D(umping) D(urban)) ID#24135:
For LGB and other sports fans..
Dumping Durban Deep had little to do with fundamentals.
I said earlier that DD was rising in a pencil thin
wave 3.
Any break down and wave 4 down is operative .. thats
what we have now. I tried to second guess the move and
got out a bit too early .. but then I only finished
selling my options today and it was all the market
would take over friday and today ( options are thin )
When wave 4 shows a sign that its OVER .. then jump in
and ride wave 5 .. jupiter and BEYOND. ... BORN TO TRADE

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:18
sam (Hey guys) ID#29053:
Found myself at a terminal so just thought I'd drop a line and say Hello, I am still alive.

Hoping all is well for all.



Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:16
BigFisherman (an ounce of silver for an acre of land) ID#258273:
Golddancer: I read somewhere that you could get an acre of productive farm land for an ounce of silver during the 30's. That would be equal to about the annual yield in crops from that acre.

Gee, maybe I could buy Idaho....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:14
JTF (IMF Gold sales) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer: Question for you -- the popular consensus seems to be that France and Germany will not go along with the US request for IMF gold sales to support Brazil. Shades of the 70's. I see no reason from them to deny that this might happen,given Brazil's desperate situation, and the need for a public positive statement. ( Unless the IMF is trying to frighten Brazil into action of some kind ) .

So it seems -- certain 'powers that be' apparently want gold to go up, not down. Interesting that they would miss a golden opportunity for the gold bears.

My question is this: How close to the gate do the barbarians have to get before France and Germany will sell their IMF gold?

Could it be that they want to save the gold to protect their own fort, rather than someone elses? You could argue that the lack of altruism by France and Germany is due to a resignation that the money spent by the IMF will have little beneficial effect anyway, and it is every man/woman for himself/herself. Not a good way for a World Bank to operate, unless the end is near.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:14
Nicodemus (Hello LGB: Are you familliar with the work done by Hugh Ross?) ID#335379:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:09
Test (Purdue U working to solve Y2K) ID#374235:
Copyright © 1998 Test/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Purdue University has defined a lower cost alternative for Mac and NT
conversions that also addresses the Y2K ( Year 2000 ) issue:
The goal is to remove all computers from the desktop by Jan 1, 1999.
Instead, everyone will be provided with an Etch-A-Sketch.

There are many sound reasons for doing this:
1. No Y2K problems
2. No technical glitches keeping work from being done.
3. No more wasted time reading and writing emails.

Frequently Asked Questions from the Etch-A-Sketch Help Desk:
Q: My Etch-A-Sketch has all of these funny little lines all over the
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: How do I turn my Etch-A-Sketch off?
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: What's the shortcut for Undo?
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: How do I create a New Document window?
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: How do I set the background and foreground to the same color?
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: What is the proper procedure for rebooting my Etch-A-Sketch?
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: How do I delete a document on my Etch-A-Sketch?
A: Pick it up and shake it.
Q: How do I save my Etch-A-Sketch document?
A: Don't shake it.

---Brought to you by the letters Y and K and the number 2.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:08
MM (approx close & triggers) ID#350179:
( XAU measured from prior close. )

Tomorrows XAU exit triggers @ 72.37 & 94.32

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:07
BigFisherman (prophesies supported by science) ID#258273:
Copyright © 1998 BigFisherman/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
During the past few years I have noticed that science and prophecies are converging. For example, there appears to be a wobble in rotation of the solar system with a periodicity of 1000 years. At the peak of this wobble we enter a belt of space stuff that causes meteor impacts. About 1000 years ago this was noted in Chinese literature: Dragons... and darkness. Similar legends from Europe have beev verified in the ancient timbers from Irish ruins. There appears to have been a period of several years of little to no tree ring growth. This could be explained by numerous small to medium impacts. This could also explain the rather rapid onset of the dark ages, and the inflection point for another 1000 year cycle. This theory is very well considered in the scienfic community and even made a show on the Discovery channel.

All cycles have an external forcing function or they fade away. There is evidence that this monstrous 1000 year cycle is driven by celestial events. Prophecy, Tribulation and 1000 years of peace? A coincidence? The odds are astronomical. I tend to listen more intently to these modern day prophets of late...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:07
LGB (@ Nicodemus) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Excellent to see a post from another Creationist / Old Earth proponent. Evolution has an enormous overload of scientific evidence against it.... ....but so does young earth creationism. This is one of the reasons the Creationist viewpoint is ridiculed as an alternative in seems that Creationists are all lumped into a 7 24 hour day creation and a 6,000 to 10,000 year old earth..both concepts which grossly violate the scientific evidence as we know it.

The only scenario I've studied that reconciles to the apparent available evidence, is Old earth creationism. Faith is important in matters spiritual...but they should jibe with the hard data and the objective scientific evidence also, yes?

After all...God created mind.....and some would say, a measure of intelligence resides there as a part of that creation!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:06
Nicodemus (Hello Gold Dancer: I shure hope that is right! That is my base stratagy...) ID#335379:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 16:04
Jack (XAU closes at 80.46 up 2.45) ID#252127:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:58
Gold Dancer (Gold standard vs. credit cards. What good gold coins?) ID#430221:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It is perfectly clear to me that a gold coin standard will never
become a reality unless there is Total destruction of the World and
we are all left to a barbaric state of affairs.

It is a nice idea. But ask yourself about convenience. A credit or
better a debit card is the best invention ever. I now use it for
purchasing just about everything and would find it unacceptable to have
to carry around all that heavy gold.

The way I see it, the banks were REALLY SMART when they developed the credit and debit cards. Who would want anyother way of making
payments? I wouldn't. I can go to any foreign country and spend my
money via a VISA card and get the best exchange rates available.

I think the banks knew that eventually their fiat system would
self destruct and that by inventing the credit/devit card they have
insured their survival no matter what happens. Credit/debit cards can
work with a gold backed currency too. But who wnats to carry around
a bunch of golden eagles? Not many, I assure you.

So what is the value to the investor of gold coins? Two fold:
if Armegeddon really happens they could be useful. They could also be
a detriment. Someone could kill to get them. The most likely senario
is that they will have the most value, if you have debts, paying
off those debts. A bunch of gold coins you paid $300 fiat dollars for
may be worth to a bank $3000 each towards your mortgage. Or if you
had coins you will problbly be able to go to a bank and buy a house
for a handfull of gold coins. Remember, in the 1929 to 1932 depression
million dollar houses fell to under $50,000.

In this way I can see gold going to a value of $3000 to $30000
per ounce. As it relates to debt. Not however as it relates to goods.
There the ratio will be about the same as it has always been. But where
there is a debt involved which cannot be paid by the borrower, that is
where the value of gold will be fully realized: the real estate you will
be able to exchange them for.

That, IMHO, is what I think is going to happen over the next 3 to
8 years.

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:58
SDRer (Notes on the margin (whilst waiting for a BORING meeting to resume)) ID#93127:
( 1 ) Tolerant1@Paper.Put.To.Good.Use As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust
Isn't this also in the Argument for Gold Papers? {:- )

( 2 ) LGB&MikeStewart@Healthy.skepticism See above, yes?

( 3 ) So, plat's up because of the SA strike?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:53
Cyclist (SGOLY) ID#26467:
FWIW Intermediate cyclical bottom made today,poised to hit 7 middle of November.
Tri-annual surge is coming due this winter,'87,'90,'93,'96,'99 like
clockwork.Dividend payout and lower interest rate environment could
be the catalyst.It has made a strong reverse head and shoulder formation.IMO this is a winner,it is the only stock that has the
fundamental,technical and cyclical attributes.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:51
Nicodemus (Hello Mike Stewart: Skeptisism is good to sharpen but consider that most of your examples) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
were typical prognosticators as were those that thought Hitler was the anit christ.
I myself never bought any of the ones you mentioned. They are typical jesters court routines.
In the comments from the bible about the future it is very specific in some areas and
cyclic in others. Often people that do not take great care in reading this material
interpret the general cycles material into a spicific event. The events that LGB pointed out are very well documented biblicly. As an example of another prohecy...
Moses, had he had the eleven creation events in his posetion had a worse chance of getting them in the right order than the second law of thermal dynamics reversing itself. 10 to the 18th. Moderen science has now confermed the creation evevnts that took place and in the right order, that Moses wrote down a few millenia ago.
The next best creation account has only two of the events correct, but not in the right order, ( Babalonian ) .
Foot note, I am convinced both by science and biblical record, that the age of the universe is 18 billion years and the earth is roughly 600 million. ( Old Earth Creationist view ) , still not enough time for evolution.
Another example is a prophecy that named a man by name and told what he would do, three hundred years before he was born.
Agreed that many like in politics or religion tend to make mountains out of mole hills in the prognostication business. Do not be decieved, for many will come prophisying in My name. The cyclical birth pains are not yet close enough together, but they do get closer as time goes on.
But the baby will come.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:47
Preacher (end times & gold) ID#225273:
Since the end times are fast approaching, if the commentary on Kitco is to be believed, do your gold buying before Heaven buys for the upcoming street-paving.

The Preacher

I can't believe I said that.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:42
LGB (Big metals potential as catalyst?) ID#269409:
Read a very interesting article today that the U.S. Navy has developed a way to produce non polluting, inexpensive rocket fuel using alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide. This technology can apparently be potentially modified for future turbine car engine use.

Apparently the secret involves a special catalyst, but it's proprietary and the Navy WON'T say what the alloy mix is!

Note to RJ...what if it's Platinum ..... Palladium or some combo? Could mean millions of ounces consumption someday!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:42
kitkat (@Golddancer) ID#208392:
Very inspirational. Thanks.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:39
JTF (Negative DOW and IMF/World Bank meeting still in session!) ID#254321:
All: My -- how disrespectful! No confidence in our leaders.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:27
LGB (@ Mike Stewart.... Healthy skepticism) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree with your skeptical approach to shmoes who predict that the end times are being ushered in by so and so...etc. But the previous events didn't really fit the prophecies.

Easy to say, I know. I was reading all that stuff in the late 70's and early 80's also, but remained a skeptic that those events were the signs..being fairly normal economic cycles, commodity shortages, Arab Israeli conflicts, etc. These things come and go...but the important signs that match the this is where I am really interested.

Perhaps the most amazing one, is the re-establishment of Israel as a nation in their historical land. NO ONE but the bible prophets would have thought it possible prior to WW2.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:21
Gold Dancer (Investment odds and ends) ID#430221:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1. Every investment has a downside or risk which must be acknowleded.

a. Gold coins. Your can lose 100% if they are lost or stolen.

b. Gold stocks. Mining strikes can be deadly in times of crisis.

Management can screw up or dilute your %. A mine can collapse. Lots of things can go wrong before you hear about it.

c. All this applies to silver as well.

d. An investment in yourself can even be taken from you. You
can be made obsolete in terms of your skills.

e. Experiences, perhaps, are the only thing that have lasting
value and cannot be taken from you.

f. You have a limited life span in which to invest and prosper.
Investment in experiences is the best insurance you can buy for your
old age and retirement. That sailing trip you take, or deciding to live
in a foreign country for a year or so will become the gold ( everlasting
and not tarnished ) of your later years.

g. The gold coins or gold stocks of today are merely a means
to purchase the REAL gold: your experiences.

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:21
2BR02B? (stirring the pot) ID#266105:

LGB-- One of the surest signs of the Philistine is his
reverence for the superior tastes of those who
put him down. stolen

Outta here.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:20
Mike Stewart (LGB) ID#270253:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Stewart/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Those who are fascinated by Revelations, always bring out the comparison to current world affairs when we see a down turn. I heard the same stuff in the early 1970's during the energy crisis ( those Arabs will start it all ) , the 1982 recession ( was supossed to be a depression ) , the recession of 1990 ( remember Saddam? ) and now it is coming out again. I once heard from a so-called prophet ( who claimed to consult George Bush ) that the 1990 recession was going to be a full depression marking the end times. People have told me that Gorbachev was the anti-christ. Gone. Others told me that it was Helmut Kohl. He's gone too.

Without trying to insult anyone, I am a skeptic.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:19
robnoel (yesterday I posted prices of $20.00 Gold ....add $50.00 to-day...yeah I know 41% increase blows away) ID#410198:
the DOW .....then again what do I know

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:19
EJ (Update) ID#229207:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
No gold sale plan by big powers -Trichet
WASHINGTON, Oct 6 ( Reuters ) - Bank of France Governor Jean-Claude Trichet said on Tuesday the French central bank had ``absolutely no plan for gold sales'' and that he believed this was the same case for its major Western counterparts.

``As far as the Banque de France is concerned there is absolutely no plan for gold sales, and to my knowledge it's the same as regards the major owners of gold holdings, which are if I'm not misled, the U.S. first, Germany second, France number three and Italy four,'' he told Reuters.

He was responding during an interview to a question on whether central banks were considering gold sales after the gold market was swept by rumors this week that Britain -- an advocate of selling IMF gold -- would officially propose such a move imminently. Britain has already denied it planned to make any such announcement.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:12
EJ (Gold sales -- not) ID#229207:
Tuesday October 6, 2:54 pm Eastern Time
Washington-Bof'S Trichet Says Absolutey No Plan For Gold Sales

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:09
Fordrik (Is 294.60 correct spot POG as per top of forum?) ID#284191:
I am only able to see the forward contracts..

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:08
STUDIO.R (@durban dumped...........) ID#119358:
may I add my tender voice to LGB.O's in our sonata serenade of LOrd D...the thankey chorus.....for his unabashed castration of d'dumped.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:07
kitkat (Alert: World Currency) ID#208392:
The IMF working group on restructuring the financial architecture of the world has denied discussing a world currency backed by a reserve of gold.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:05
moa (IMF group therapy laughing matter.) ID#269128:
Copyright © 1998 moa/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Quotes: ...18 senior economists have resigned from IMF in the last year...,..when this many bankers get bearish, it is very dangerous.

Tuesday October 6, 2:38 pm Eastern Time

No one is laughing at the IMF parties this year

By Anthony Boadle

WASHINGTON, Oct 6 ( Reuters ) - The oysters and champagne are as good as last
year, but financiers and investors attending the annual meetings of the Bretton
Woods institutions are in no mood for partying.

The specter of default raised by the Russian crisis and the fear of devaluation by
Brazil made for a gloomy climate at the annual receptions hosted by the big banks on the fringes of the
International Monetary Fund and World Bank meetings.

``If Brazil goes, I'll be bearish for a year,'' said a senior Bank of Montreal vice-president as he sipped

More than relief, President Fernando Henrique Cardoso's narrow reelection on Sunday raised new doubts for
investors about his ability to strike political deals. He needs to push through austerity measures in return for
IMF aid that is crucial for Brazil to halt a massive flight of dollars.

``We are no more exposed in Brazil than anyone else,'' said a Citibank vice-president with experience in Latin

But he quickly added that Cardoso should not delay in announcing his belt-tightening measures to restore

Emerging market portfolio managers were uneasy that finance officials of the world's big seven industrial
powers failed to commit any money to help stop contagion from the crisis that began in Asia last year and then
swept the globe.

The language of leaders at these gatherings has taken on a darker tone since last year's IMF meetings in Hong
Kong, with political leaders and even more cautious central bankers warning of the risks the world faces.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 15:00
kitkat (@Fordrick) ID#208392:
Gold Spot 296.50
Silver 5.06
( Monex )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:58
Tyro (Interesting commentary on Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Loral and China) ID#36977:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:58
LGB (@ JD...Drooy down 9%?) ID#269409:
Durban's getting crushed on high volume...your liquidation must be the reason! I've turned from sad to glad that I put more into Harmony than DD. A ratio of about 3:1..... with the Drooy drop, ought I change it?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:46
Fordrik (Is 294.60 correct spot POG as per top of forum?) ID#284191:
I am only able to see the forward contracts..

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:40
SDRer (For the Plat people--any help?) ID#290172:
October 6, 1998
Platinum mines hit by strikes

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:39
MM (Russia braces for first major protest since economic crisis began) ID#350179:

Protest organizers have sought to turn the private frustrations into public rallies that could draw as many as 40 million people around the country, according to Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov. Russian labor unions say up to 28 million people will take part in the strikes and rallies.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:32
Jack (Aurizon is worth a close look) ID#237264:

After looking over Cambior's 3rd quarter results ( at the Yahoo site ) ; the production of 9578 oz at its 50% owned Sleeping Giant Mine indicates that its partner Aurizon Mines ( ) will very likely have very good cash flow this quarter.

Aurizon; as always a consistant operator also has a 50% interest in the Beaufor Mine and sells for about $0.53 Canadian or about $0.35 US.

Then there is the possibility at Casa Beradi.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:29
LSteve (Y2K just the tip of the iceberg?) ID#316256:
Check it out

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:29
John Disney (compliance ..) ID#24135:
fact ( oids ) and things

1. RSA ranks 6th in the world in Y2k Compliance..
( betcha didnt know THAT )
2. Thanks BUgal .. saw it and dug it.

3. Sold all remaining DD options TODAY .. averaged
out at 3 rand plus .. cost was half a rand ..
got them via DD preferred stock purchases. As a
rule, I would estimate the value of DDeeps at
roughly 60 % of harmony .. If it starts
running too far ahead of that Id switch to the
big H... If it trails behind then Id switch back.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:21
mapleman () ID#348127:

I want some feedback on what you all think would be the best bet with what we feel is going to happen to US markets tanking over the course of the next year. Heres the question.Will US , SA or Canadian miners be best positioned for the bull run, or does it matter.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:21
moa (NASDAQ tanking...) ID#269128:
down 2.5 %.....just a slow death.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:18
moa (Euro sticking to their guns....high interest) ID#269128:
Strong euro.....what for gold?

Tuesday October 6, 1:48 pm Eastern Time
Note: this article has a followup with more information.

Interest Rate Cuts Particularly Not Appropriate For Euro

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:17
Gold Dancer (MissingLink/Raegen/debt) ID#430221:
I have always thought that Raegan, Bush and Clinton were cut
from the same piece of cloth and took orders from the same people.
The lot of them will go down in history as the worst presidents ever.
But only if the people educate themselves in time as to the true cause
of thier demise. Not likely to happen. They will probably blame it on
someone else; not on their laziness. Most don't have a CLUE as to what
is going on.

Thanks, GD

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:15
LSteve (NEM) ID#316256:
Well what can I say, I bought more NEM this morning. Thought I'd get more of a retreat on price than I did, but I think the next stop for this guy could be $31.00 or so. With the DOW going south and the downward price movement on gold stalling I think we're back in the GO mode.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:09
Gianni Dioro (@the missinglink - KGBill Klinton) ID#384350:
What a Jerk is right -
``The central economic challenge we face is to harness the positive power of an open international economy while avoiding the cycle of boom and bust,'' Clinton said in extolling the plan.

These words could have been spoken by the leader of the Communist Party.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:04
2BR02B? (Armstrong's windy take on things) ID#266105:

The first crack came 4 years later in Mexico. The IMF bailout appeared to have worked, when in fact Mexico only repackaged its debt and sold it into the Euro market taking those funds and paying off the US Treasury. In reality, the debt was never paid, it was merely redistributed. Nonetheless, the details were never fully aired and Clinton was eager to take the credit for the Mexican bailout so no one bothered to ask the hard questions about how Mexico could pay off billions in such a short period of time.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:04
Gianni Dioro (@the missinglink - KGBill Klinton) ID#384350:
What a Jerk is right -
``The central economic challenge we face is to harness the positive power of an open international economy while avoiding the cycle of boom and bust,'' Clinton said in extolling the plan.

These words could have been spoken by the leader of the Communist Party.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:03
crazytimes (DOW) ID#344326:
Just went negative.....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:01
Isure (Three Things you want find in Heaven) ID#368244:

Bankers , Lawyers , or Politicians!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 14:01
chas (LGB re itty bitty gold) ID#147201:
Coin depot has some- maybe a few thousand. No idea how many are out otherwise. They are 24K and your price is right. Have you any idea how many are in existence? If you don't know about the quantity, can you refer me to some source who might. Many thanx, Charlie

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:54
MtHighNC (LGB) ID#348309:
What is truly amazing is that most of those bibical predictions were
made many thousands of years ago...and are coming true almost to the day if one were to use the old jewish calender

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:52
Jim (Lgb & CageRattler) ID#187267:
In addition to the specific prophecies which you listed, do not forget that prior to the 7 year tribulation period the Church ( that is all those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their saviour ) is going to miraculously and suddenly be caught up to heaven. If you are not among that group you will be subjected to the most terrible tribulation this world has ever known. Read the BOOK.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:49
chas (LGB re itty bitty gold) ID#147201:
Thanx a bunch for this info. I'll check them out, Charlie

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:46
JTF (Exerpt of Clinton's Speech at IMF/World bank meeting) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Donald, All: No mention of selling IMF gold. Just another request for 18 billion from US Congress. Does anyone know if there is anything behind possible IMF gold sales? The message I'm getting now is no - but I would think France and Germany must be pretty worried by now that they could be next -- after Brazil/South America. I'll bet they are waiting for the US to chip in. Wonder who will blink first.

What I find puzzling is that the IMF is reluctant to do anything because they do not want to cause losses for their shareholders. And -- yesterday I heard a World Bank spokesman say that they 'are too busy to reform right now'.

I find this ludicrous, given that all of the IMF activity in the last

1 1/2 years seems to have had little beneficial effect. A rational person might conclude that reform is long overdue if the organization is ineffective. But -- who am I to think rationally?

So much for the 'New World Order'.

I wonder what George Soros is betting on these days. Certainly not the IMF or WJC riding in on the white horse.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:46
crazytimes (Well, I did my part today. I bought some more coins....) ID#344326:
Bought some Maple Leafs, Phillies, Helvetias, and one Platinum Eagle ( since price is down a bit ) Been reading on other posts about all this wave stuff, seems most agree we are about to go down ALOT ( Markets, not gold ) The recent sell off in Gold doesn't bother me much. Gold always seems to get attacked when markets are shakey. Also, would be better for the LTCM to begin covering at a lower level, no?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:40
moa (gold stocks turned the corner...) ID#269128:
where will next leg up end?....Spot @ $310.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:38
John Disney (Rangy NAV) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for polarbear ..
These are numbers I have put together
in a hurry this evening .. I think I have a mistake
in here somewhere .. maybe you can locate it ..
Rangy holdings in rand ( grouped in order of
contribution )
format .. item , shares ( mill ) ,price, contribution ( mill rand )
RRS , 11.253,14.5, 163.1
Dbd deep,7.57,19,144
Harmony Options,1.95,5.5,10.75
Dbn Deep B options, 2.8,2.2,6.16
Dbn Deep options,.97,3,3.3
Wes Areas, 0.15,22,3.3
JCI gold,0.3,5,1.5
kelgram, 4.2,.3, 1.26
Harmony, .01,30,0.3
Benco, .1,0.65, .1
Other Assets .. 262 mill
Liabilities ... ( 400 mill )
on 41.38 mill shares this gives a NAV of 5.25 but
I think Ive left something out .. the NAV should be
about 6 rand I believe,

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:32
Tyro (Congress likely to approve $18 Billion for IMF) ID#36977:
Livingston said funding for the International Monetary Fund is likely to be one of the last issues decided, although Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, said he believes the full $18 billion he wants will be approved once negotiators agree on IMF reforms.

This rings true for me. I would be shocked if Congress failed to pass this.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:29
2BR02B? (every debt repaid, if not by the debtor then by the creditor) ID#266105:
There is a general theorem about loans: for every borrower there is a
lender, and if you have a bad borrower, you maybe have a bad lender,
too, said Joseph Stiglitz, chief economist of the World Bank.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:24
LGB (@ Cage Rattler..... The temple in Jerusalem) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Regarding the rebuilding of the Temple. Many Christian eschatologists beieve that the final Sign of the end times, which will usher in the 7 year Tribulation and ultimately the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.

In studying the biblical prophecies, it's intersting to note that all the other important prophecies re the end times have been, and/or are being fulfilled. These end times prophecies include;

* Great increase in travel, technology, and knowledge...fulfilled exponentially in our day.

* A revived Roman Empire which will have a single monetary system, and consist of all the major European powers ( the EU )

* A re-establishment of the nation of Israel and return of the Jews to their land.. ( 1948 to date ) with a biblical prohecy that Before this generation passes away ( that is, the generation of Jews who see the establishment of the nation of Israel ) All these things will come to pass ( the end times prophecies )

* An increase in weather phenomena, and also celectial phenomena ( The list is long, but we've definitely seen this in the past 3 years with Comets, starbursts, upcoming severe meteor storms, planetary alignments, etc. )

* Instability in world economic system, and increase in tensions of war... setting the stage for the Anti-Christ ( who comes out of the EU ) to come to the rescue as the World's with his new deal economics which will involve ( most believe ) a mark or micro-chip without which no one will be able to buy, sell, or trade. This dictator will also make a Peace pact with all nations, and specifically in the middle East, but will break the agreement at the 3 1/2 year point into the 7 year tribulation.

This temple issue might very well turn out to be a huge event if it proceeds.

If you don't believe the biblical prophecy, there are also many other secular and other religious works which indicate that Y2K timeframe with usher in a new age.

If you DO believe in biblical prophecy, be aware that the 7 year tribulation, Armegeddon, and the return of Christ are not the end of the world in biblical many secularists mis-interpret, but rather the beginning of a new millenium of Peace on Earth for believers.
( And judegement for non believers )

Sobering thoughts...

And remember that in the New Jerusalem described in the book of Revelations, the streets are paved with ..... GOLD!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:22
Jack (While waiting for the yellow and white to re-establish their positions as real money) ID#237264:

A cash rich oil producer has just given notice of a deal with ARCO concerning one of the worlds largest natural
gas deposits. Read about it at their news site for Oct. 6 1998 at

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:05
LGB (@ Libertad itty bitty Gold) ID#269409:
Not sure who has these in stock at best price but you might try ;

Coast to Coast @ 1-800-638-8869 and/or

Coin depot @ 1-800-922-2441

I've seen them advertise the 1/20 Oz. Libertad recently in last week's Coin World.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:03
TheMissingLink (What a jerk.) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Leaders need to find a way to ``contain boom-bust cycle on a global scale, enabling capital to flow freely'' without the social consequences such wild swings on global markets bring, he said.

``The central economic challenge we face is to harness the positive power of an open international economy while avoiding the cycle of boom and bust,'' Clinton said in extolling the plan.

He sure did not seem to be complaining about the boom we have had in the past 14 years as our future has been mortgaged to the tune of $5.5 trillion and the money supply devalued through the creation of another $5.5 trillion in M3. We borrowed the good times of today and now it is time to pay the price through deflation and our weak leaders can only tremble at the prospect. If they had guts, we would never have borrowed the $5.5 trillion in the first place.

Reagan will go down in history as the guy who caused the depression of '99.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 13:03
John Disney (rangy .. rangy.. rangy) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For TSclaw ..
You asked why I bought some Rangy .. well ..
1. it is really cheap and if there is a sell off
and I get caught I dont think it will go down as
fast as others.
2. I have to diversify .. I have a lot of Harmony
.. St helena.. Randfontn.. and E-dagga ( to convert
to Anggold ) .. Where else can I go really ..
3. there has been a

little movement in RRS on london
market.. up to $2.4 from $2.25
4. I like the local stuff MUCH better than ADR as I
explained earlier .. IF they collapse randgold
.. ADR holders may get assets sold in US at fire
sale price. ( problems with options .. RRS ..
unlisted assets ) .
5. I didnt buy THAT MUCH. just a little bottom feeding.
6. Where do the rumours come from .. Now Mr Claw..
that depends on what you mean by come from ..

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:57
chas (Will re little gold coins) ID#147201:
They will be 1 cm diameter and about 1/2 mm thick with a rim. If you have ever sen a private mint 50 cent gold coin from Calif., it was about 6.5 grains. Re BB, if it was flatten it would be close. Very small, but still gold. Thanx for your post, Charlie

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:47
Gollum (Hanging on for dear life....) ID#43185:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:42
Will (RE: Chas and Little Gold Coins) ID#240248:
How big is a 10 grain coin? Compare it to a BB.

Bigger, smaller?


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:33
General (buy a good gun safe to store your PMs vice in a safety deposit box) ID#365216:
Copyright © 1998 General/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree that safety deposit boxes are not the place to keep your
assets like PMs, guns, etc. They are NOT in your control in a bank
( just like your funds ) in the case of a bank holiday which is when
you would need them the most. You can get a good gun safe for
$1000 or more which you can store lots and lots of guns, coins,
etc. The one I ordered is a Zanotti which is an interlocking design
allowing you to assemble it yourself which makes shipping and
reassembly in a small confinement very good. Zanotti advertises in
the Shotgun News or write for info at

Zanotti Armour
123 W. Lone Tree Rd.
Cedar Falls, IA

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:33
tolerant1 (Those wacky Federalist kids...yup...uh huh...) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
´´As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires
a certain degree of circumspection and distrust: So there
are other qualities in human nature, which justify a certain
portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government
presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher
degree than any other form. Were the pictures which have
been drawn by the political jealousy of some among us,
faithful likenesses of the human character, the inference
would be that there is not sufficient virtue among men for
self-government; and that nothing less than the chains of
despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring
one another.´´ --Federalist 55, February 13, 1788

Visit THE FEDeralist at:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:26
kitkat (Somebody please wake BillD) ID#208392:
so that he can ask Bart to jiggle the quote frame so that we can see the yellow go green,

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:22
Donald (Changes in Canadian reserves, gold & sdr's) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:21
James (GCZ8 did'nt want to stay under 297 & now over 298) ID#252150:
Covered my PDG short for $1.00 per share gain & now thinking about going long.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:17
Cage Rattler (Dollar depreciated by almost 4% versus yen over last 36 hours) ID#33184:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:17
chas (LGB your 11:48) ID#147201:
Copyright © 1998 chas/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanx for this post. # 1 ) please point me to the source of the Mex Libertad 1/20 oz gold coin. I agree the prem is stiff, but if you deal with a recognized national mint, the numbers go up as the size goes down. I expect that the Mex piece is about ,900 fine and the 10 grainer will be .99995 fine. The ideas here are to provide a cheap way for the little people to get into gold coins. It is not necessarily that they will use these coins to day in lieu of the FRN. However, the concern that the FRN MAY become worthless, these little coins would provide a way to do everyday business. I don't know how many Mex 1/20 oz pieces there are for $20, but junk silver will not supply the amount needed in the event paper burns. The 10 grainer can be produced as much as necessary. It is not a commemorative, but a piece that is recognizable by a national mint. Looking forward to more ideas, Charlie

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:08
CPO@AU (reify( Questions & Thoughts)) ID#329186:
Copyright © 1998 CPO@AU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes some of my thoughts too
My little pot of PM's is in the bank but will get whipped out ( hopefully ) mid 1999.
Mortgage if you have one in theory then is an assett of the receiver
who may sell it on if he finds a buyer.
I worry about the sudden bank crash and doors shutting as i am sure they would not open them for safety box holders.
The broker that hold s your puts ( or winning bets ) has beeb written about if he becomes insolvent YOU LOOSE.
'Cant see any of our Leaders fixing anything too busy running for their own skins.

Guess we had better make a bit of hay as well as preparations


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:07
Cage Rattler (Temple plan could ignite WWIII ) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Cornerstone to be laid today on explosive real estate

By Kaye Corbett
Copyright 1998,

JERUSALEM -- While the world continues to discuss Clinton's sincapades, a small group of religious zealots, known as the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, could bring this planet to the brink of World War III tomorrow morning.

Led by expert researcher and lecturer, Gershon Salomon, the group intends to lay a 4.5 ton marble cornerstone for the building of the Third Temple at the location of the First and Second Temples.

Salomon has explained the date was selected because it coincides with the third day of the festival of Succot ( Feast of Tabernacles ) when King David, supposedly, brought the Ark of the Covenant from the City of David to the Temple Mount.

Now under Islamic rule, the Har Habayit ( Temple Mount ) is the most important holy site in Jewish history and the Temple's restoration is even part of every observant Jews' prescribed prayer.

In October 1990, 17 Palestinians were killed when it was rumored throughout the Islamic quarters that the Israeli infidels were taking over the Temple Mount. Even a month later, Muslim youth were still throwing rocks at anyone who approached the area.

CBS Radio reporter and author, David Dolan, told WorldNetDaily that there's not a chance in the world that the cornerstone will be laid. It's a publicity thing. There would be huge riots if this happened.

Dolan, author of the 1998 book, Israel at the Crossroads -- Fifty Years and Counting dismissed the Temple Mount Faithful as a group that loves attention. The Israeli media and even those in the U.S. have ignored them. There's no talk in the media at all.

While Dolan rejected the Temple Mount Faithful's scheme, he re-iterated the tension throughout the Middle East and stated: We are on the brink of World War III.

Salomon intends to transport the cornerstone that has been brought out of Israel's desert area and and carry it on a big truck, decorated with Israeli flags and the Star of David. The stone will be covered with a prayer shawl, known as a Tallith. Levites will then play the Psalms of Ascent and a high priest will anoint the stone.

According to the Temple Mount Faithful, the stone will be taken to Jerusalem with shofars being blown along the way, for the special ceremony of Nisuch HaMaaim at the Pool of Shiloah. Water then will be poured on the cornerstone and be anointed.

Perhaps, the group can reach the Pool of Shiloah, however, security forces will definitely interrupt their route if they try to take the stone and an ancient Torah scroll to the Temple Mount. They intend to drive the truck around the Temple Mount seven times exactly as Joshua did at Jericho.

While the Temple Mount Faithful, who have invited thousands to meet at the Western Wall Plaza near the Mugrabi Gate, believes the holy site will be open to them somehow. However, Dolan explained the government won't allow it to happen. If you've ever been to Jerusalem, you know about the logistics and the number of levels of security there.

Salomon, 58, believes the hand of God has been on him since he was a child and the responsibility of the Temple restoration has been given to him.

A 10th generation Jerusalemite, Salomon joined the Israeli Defense Forces and led a company in the Golan Heights during the War of Independence. He was injured in a battle with the Syrians in 1958 when he was run over by a tank. While Syrian troops were taught to shoot to kill, they ran away.

Later, according to Salomon, when the Syrians reported to the U.N. about the incident, they claimed they'd seen thousands of angels around the IDF officer. He explained he'd heard the voice of God and understood it as a divine call about the Temple Mount.

He was involved in the liberation of the Temple Mount during the Six-Day War in June 1967, however, in what he considers a terrible decision, then Israeli defence minister, Moshe Dayan, turned over the control of the Temple Mount to the Moslem authorities a month later.

The Palestinians, who claim Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state and deny any ancient Jewish rights to the Temple Mount, consider any encroachment by Israel upon their holy place as a violation of the Peace Accord and a prelude to holy war, explained Israeli expert, Dr. Randall Price.

The First Temple, built by King Solomon, was burned down by the Babylonians in 586 BC while the Second Temple, rebuilt by the Judean leader Zerubbabel and later re-constructed by the Judean king, Herod the Great, was destroyed by the Roman 10th legion in 70 AD.

Another key reason, the Temple Mount Faithful will be deterred this week from attempting to lay the cornerstone on the Temple Mount, is the political fact that U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright arrived in Jerusalem last night for a three-day visit.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:04
Fordrik (Futures looking better) ID#284191:
Forward contracts backing off some of their losses. That could be the end of the correction. Volumes would be interesting ...?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 12:03
ALBERICH (@Reify: Never keep your physical GOLD at ) ID#212197:
a safety deposit in your BANK.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:59
That was Farvel at his best several months ago.
That's in short the reason why I never know if I shall be happy or not if the gold price goes down temporarily these days.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:55
Cowgirl (Reify, look at your safety deposit box agreement. Mine says that they won't) ID#34191:
let you in if there is a RUN on the bank. I saw a piece on TV about the state of Oregon trying to get the heirs of a nursing home patient to reimburse the state $65,000 for her care. The agents were going through safety deposit boxes! Picture martial law, a ban on gold ownership, and the FEDS shutting down the banks to raid the boxes. I don't trust 'em.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:54
CPO@AU (Please translate Namaste' ) ID#329186:
thanks in adv

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:54
Cage Rattler (Greenspan on Oprah ?) ID#33184:
Talk show host Oprah Winfrey cancelled her much-anticipated interview with Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan after he demanded money for the appearance. Greenspan, who's told friends he needs extra cash to fund the wardrobe needs of his wife who is NBC reporter Andrea Mitchell, argued that his time is money to the producers of the show. Depending on what I say on your show could cause the stock market to surge or the collapse of the world economy and you'd get all the free publicity out of it, Greenspan reportedly told Oprah producers according to a source at the meeting.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:52
tsclaw (@ John Disney) ID#327123:
What convince you to get back into RANGY? Also, where is all the rumor coming from that they maybe merged into another company. Is that just one of their possibilities?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:51
tolerant1 (Cowgirl, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...that is the whole point eh...the fact is they are) ID#31868:
not his bombs...they are OUR bombs...and we are the ones who pay with our lives during the retribution...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:48
LGB (@ Chas...Little Gold Coins) ID#269409:
For those who believe in the Gold as personal spending money concept ( and I admit I'm not one of them ) ... the Mexican Libertad 1/20 Oz. Gold piece can be had for about $20.00 each or less in quantity.

Pretty stiff premium over bullion value, but it affords those smaller Gold increments. A better approach might be silver junk coin....but as I said, I don't believe we'll ever see bullion coins trading in lieu of the U.S. dollar, or the Euro ( though if I lived in Russia or some other third world currency country I'd be thinking otherwise! )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:46
Cowgirl (Petronius, thanks for bombing/Reno article yesterday.) ID#34191:
The author was on a morning show ( Today Show I think ) and said something like, Americans might not care where Clinton drops his pants, but they dang sure aught to care where he drops his bombs!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:45
Boardreader (By Jove, they have their Fingerspitzengefühl on it!) ID#20767:

People are worried that any country could behave like Russia or could behave like Malaysia. To the extent that the IMF and the G-7 do not stand tall against that kind of behaviour it increases the contagion.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:42
chas (mozel your 2:41 & 3:28) ID#147201:
Copyright © 1998 chas/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Re your gold orb- the metallurgy for this is available. However, due to the temperatures involved, when it works , the gold would most likely be a globule and the glass may not be completely clear. I have had a similar piece occur during assays, but since I was not trying for it, the glass was cloudy. The amount of gold would have to be beyond the amount that makes ruby glass or it would be dissolved into the glass. Re 2:41- the potion of the public who does not study law takes this opportunity to buy gold. The little man's polling takes the simplest route and can take it more easily when the price he pays is now below $20 per piece. This is the portion of the population that the 10 grainer is aimed at. I want to thank you for exceptional perception of where the real power is, Charlie

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:42
ravenfire (wave of layoffs ... in the U.S. of A.) ID#333126:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:42
Cyclist (Angly) ID#26467:
FWIW Angly is out of the gate ,up 3.Right in the time frame.
The SA stocks should do well.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:42
Reify (Some Questions and thoughts---) ID#413109:
OK...along comes y2k, or a major Japanese bank that goes down--
and this has a ripple effect, and your bank closes.
Question- what happens to your mortgage?
Question- what happens to the GOLD that you have in your safety deposit box?
Question- what happens after the crisis is fixed by the mighty government?

Have you given these questions some thought before?

What about your broker, that holds your puts that are in the money?
What happens if he goes belly up?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:40
Cowgirl (Bank mergers..... a conspiracy) ID#34191:
In the past year there have been several bank mergers. This looks to me like a conspiracy to redistribute wealth when the banks default. People who have some money are careful to not have more than $100,000 in any one bank because of the FDIC limitation. Each time there is a merger you have one less place to have insured deposits and a $100,000 less that the Gov't has to give the rich when the bank fails. Seems like a good enough reason to bury more gold.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:38
tsclaw (South African Gold Mine Earnings) ID#327123:
Earning out today for Western Areas and Randfontein. 408% and 380% up respectively. Assuming the rand decline is responsible for most of the gain we are going to see some significant movement in DROOY and HGMCY and other SA's as earnings are released.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:37
gunrunner (Metals holding...) ID#354133:
Copyright © 1998 gunrunner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Jan Plat: 341.5
Dec Gold 296.7
Dec Silv 5.095

...but for how long?

Preacher - welcome back and thanks for your analysis.

Pete, Tyoung - Ditto your thoughts. Guess we can add liar and coward to the self-serving, greedy, prostitute, salesclerk title-holder. Calling the kettle black. He and Clinton are one in the same - no tolerance, always think they are right, spews forth lots of words to sell the lies, and tries to discredit others. His cut-n-pasted B.S. is on occasion informative, though.

Clone of Clinton. It fits. Cut-n-paste us some more propaganda from your sources, will you?


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:35
tolerant1 (William Parasite Clintler...yup...uh huh...) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
And so the pure bred parasite…Clintler…represents greater control…more government…centralized everything…but who could expect anything less from the creature that never had a chance to become a human never had a real job...constantly feeding from the public troth as soon as it was able...what a parasite...representing bigger parasites...

The parasite wants to keep track of our each and every codes...National ID cards...but the parasite wants to move about freely...spend OUR money at will...and do as every parasite does...feeding at will...every hunger and whim...F him...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:31
MtHighNC (LGB) ID#348309:
One sale that I will not miss...LOL!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:27
Oro (Do I see what I think I see?) ID#71231:
Got a set of short term ( intra day trades ) signals right after the open:

XAU - buy
DJUA - sell
IIX - sell
DJIA -sell

Long term sell signal - at least so far - Clinton speaks, market has only minor rally that seems to be dissipating. If this does not reverse, the a further big decline in stocks may be coming.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:24
LGB (@MtHighNC) ID#269409:
And don't miss that special Clinton impeachment sale at the Men's Warehouse...3 days only...all men's pants, Half off.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:22
MtHighNC (LGB/Klinton) ID#348309:
How right you are...!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:21
Cage Rattler (Massive increase in job cuts) ID#33184:
Copyright © 1998 Cage Rattler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Challenger, Grey, and Christmas, an international outplacement firm said nearly 30% of US companies cited the Asian economic crisis as a factor leading to job cuts and that US companies are being bombarded by competition from overseas companies that can sell their goods for less money in the US as their currency deflates. This is just another indication that the labor market is getting hurt, not only by falling exports, but by killer competition as well. With that, further Fed rate cuts will likely meet much less resistance from FOMC hawks.

US job cuts surge 97% in September vs. August to 73062.
US job cuts up 253% vs. September 1997.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:19
Retearivs (More of the same.) ID#413175:
Motherhood and apple pie from Mr. Bill. Nothing new.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:18
Cage Rattler (Clinton starts speaking ... dollar starts weakening ...) ID#33184:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:14
Goldteck (Mountaineer destroys myth of the Yeti) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It's not on gold neither on Monica but it's a good article October 6, 1998
Mountaineer destroys myth of the Yeti
 FRANKFURT, Oct 6 ( Reuters ) - A Tyrolean adventurer said on Tuesday he have destroyed the legend of the Yeti, the mythical creature that has terrified Tibetans for thousands of years.
  Contrary to popular myth, the Yeti or Abominable Snowman is not a humanoid ape but a large bear and there are about 1,000 roaming Nepal and Tibet, usually at night, Reinhold Messner announced at the world's biggest book fair.
  Bearded, rugged-faced Messner, himself a mountaineering legend since he climbed Mount Everest without using artificial oxygen in 1978, has devoted his life to tracking the creature after a close and terrifying encounter in 1986.
  Over the years, several researchers have suspected that the Yeti may be a bear.
  German researcher Ernst Schaefer expounded the theory after he was commissioned by the Nazis to seek out the missing link between apes and humans in the 1930s. He even shot a few.
  Messner's book Yeti, unveiled at the Frankfurt Book Fair, claims to confirm this with the help of photos taken during several encounters.
  Messner, who has visited the Himalayas many times, said he had not believed in the Yeti but changed his mind after he came face to face with a dark creature one night in 1986 while hiking in a remote forest of eastern Tibet.
  I came across this indefinable, big, stinking exotic animal, he told a news conference. I stood still and he walked off.
  If he had come towards me I would probably have died of a heart attack before he got to me. The creature walked on two legs.
  Messner said he examined its footprints and discovered they were similar to a famous 1951 photo of a footprint taken on a Himalayan expedition which had helped to make the Yeti as famous as Scotland's fabled Loch Ness monster.
  It's clearly a Tibetan bear, similar to a grizzly but with longer hair, Messner said. It can grow up to 3.40 metres and can walk on all fours as well as on its hind legs. It lives at heights of between 4,000 and 6,000 metres ( 12,000-18,000 feet ) .
  Its faeces are similar to that of humans because it eats the same food. That's because it follows humans and steals their food. It's easier.
  The bear is elusive because it mainly travels at night. It can be dangerous. It will not harm people if they go out of its way. The local legend has it that it brings bad luck to anyone who sees it.
  Messner kept his findings secret while he was writing the book. Several German newspapers have cast doubt on his findings.
  He launched a counter-attack at the news conference, accusing the media of trying to destroy his reputation. I can't help it if people expected King Kong and didn't get him, he said.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:14
tolerant1 (Clintler the traitor, the liar, the now yapping at some meeting of ) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
criminals about the world financial house of fake/fiat/counterfeit under handed deals and criminality...he supports the IMF and the WB... criminals...cheats and thieves...our jack's ass in OUR house is making a mockery of the Constitution and all those that have died to preserve it...

This dangerous dirtbag must be removed from office and shunned and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...each and every word he is speaking goes against his oath of office and is trying to drive a stake of servitude through the heart of each and every American...

F Him...and the First Bunt Cake he rode in on...oh yeah...

GET CAMDESUSS!!!...but leave something for my dog to drag around the Cuervo Central compound...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:14
LGB (@MtHighNC) ID#269409:
Yes...Clinton does want more many little time.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:13
POLARBEAR (RANDGOLD, DURBAN, and Questions for MR. KEBBLE) ID#183109:
Copyright © 1998 POLARBEAR/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
QUESTIONS FOR MR. KEBBLE, from RANGY shareholders…

and WOW, what’s up with DURBAN today? Do you think investors were actually able to figure out my Durban VS. RANGY spreadsheet?

Like I’ve been saying, Durban is a great company, but there’s NO WAY it deserves a market cap worth 700% of RANGY, and from the looks of today, this number won’t hold. All these Blanchard readers who spiked the price should do a bit more of their own thinking, should buy it when he's not covering it. Who knows, maybe we’ll see a merger between the two. GO GOLD, GO RANDOLD : )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 11:10
MtHighNC (Our Leader Speaks) ID#348309:
Mr. Klinton....needs you to give is your duty!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 10:55
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:
The rally that began late yesterday and continues this morning is unimpressive to put it mildly. Breadth remains very poor. Bill Fleckenstein has been saying we will not get a sustained bounce until the internets get smashed and we see some real panic selling in the still greatly overvalued blue chips. Makes sense to me.

ROR: thanks for the IMF info!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 10:31
ravenfire (the rate at which these long bond yields have been moving) ID#333126:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 10:29
SDRer (Mozel-yr 02:32-Greater numbers in 1998) ID#286249:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
-enough to throw Oz export figures out of whack…
So where did it all go?

and for your consideration…
Aristophanes' Ecclesiazusae 1

Praxagora ends by describing the domestication of public, civic space under the new regime. No mention is made of the assembly---which has already been turned into a form of theatre… The sovereign demos of Athens assembles in three forms: the assembly on the Pnyx, the theatre, and ( representatively ) the law courts. In the new state these law courts become dining halls. This public space, however, is not merely domesticated by being turned into dining space; it is also theatricalized. …poetry in the new order takes on part of the function of dispensing justice and punishing wrong-doers: poetic recitals by the young of martial deeds will make the cowardly so ashamed of themselves that they will not be able to eat. We have already found out that having one's rations cut is the only possible punishment, since actions at law are abolished in the new Athens. Poetry will punish those whom no one else has detected. All three gatherings of the people ( assembly, law courts, and theatre ) have become one.
Niall W. Slater

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 10:19
Gollum (DOW +135) ID#43185:
Bond rates rising...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 10:04
MoReGoLd (@GOLDMAN SACHS Lives up to it's Name....... Are they just jumping on the Bandwagon ?) ID#348129:
Alert: Goldman Upgrades Barrick Gold To Mrkt Outperform From Mrkt Perform
Alert: Goldman Sachs Upgrades Newmont Gold To A Trading Buy From Mrkt Perform

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 10:03
gwyz (Posted last night...) ID#432130:
I found this posted here at Kitco last night...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:08 sharefin ( Snipped from the web ) ID#284255: My brother is managing director for one of the major Japanese banks. He's shaking! Its all over for this bank, in so many words, and according to him its only a matter of time before the whole world knows what the the powers that be know.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:55
Gollum (@EJ) ID#35571:
Looks like the timing may be much the same as in '29 too.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:53
LGB (@ Gold Shares.... not much safety at the moment) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I keep watching the Gold shares and how they respond to big market downturns as we had yesterday. Particualry since I now own some. Their response has not been encouraging. In fact I had a co-worker chiding me yesterday as our Loral shares got killed.... he said ..

Hey your Gold share hedge isn't doing much good today is it? Aren't those mining shares supposed to go opposite the DOW?

Well, of course this opened a whole can o' worms as we got into yerterday's falling POG, falling silver, etc. and then THAT opened a whole can o' worms about how the dollar and Gold could both be falling along with the DOW and......

Well, before we go too deeply into it... let's just say that with the huge Gold overhang from CB's and the machinations of IMF, World bank, et al.... I'm not at all convinced that in today's global economic crises, Gold will be allowed as a safe haven.

I think I'm with RJ on this one, that the establishment of the Euro and thus limitation of further manipulation by the major European players, may be necesseary before a true Bull can ensue.

Go Harmony! Go Drooy! Go Full Moon!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:46
EJ (Gollum - poster with the handle golden agrees with your assessment) ID#45173:
of the impending bond market crisis. As soon as everyone figures out the world is not coming to an end, they'll attempt to rush out of a tiny opening, the possible result being a fulfillment of the fear. The post is in the discussion group in the Bear's Den.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:45
LGB (Market opens lucky) ID#269409:
Any market that opens at 7777 must feel lucky today! Must be the Full Moon eh Peutz!

Tuesday October 6, 9:32 am Eastern Time

Dow Jumps More Than 50 Points At Open To 7777

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:44
Chrisophilos (I wonder how many millions of tonnes......) ID#277302:
of the american farmer's grains... ( and blood, sweat and tears for that matter ) the American's hedge funds have under their short, stubby thumb.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:37
LGB (@ KitKat...Gold detractors? ...or Analysis? ) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
KitKat...I'm not so sure I agree that there are Goldbugs eager to spread bad news for Gold. Perhaps there are some of us interested in the metals who like to see BOTH / ALL sides of Gold's potential in order to make our own analysis and investment decisions?

For example, the latest Newsletters from the GleeClubUSAGold site purveyer have articles like 24 reasons why Gold must rise.

Now if that article was instead titled 24 reasons why Gold MIGHT rise and 14 reasons why it might FALL.... and then gave good content and argument to both sides...with perhaps a summary that gives weight to it all and draws conclusions about what factors will prevail in Gold's price direction...... to me, THAT is analysis rather than simple cheerleading.

I don't respect stock market analysts who are perpetually bullish regardless of market factors. If they can't see both sides they're worthless as analysts. Same goes for Gold analysis. I'd much rather hear discussion fo all possible factors that may drive it up OR down...than just have a pointless cheerleading discussion a la the GleeClub over on the other site.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:33
EJ (kitkat re Japanese $300 coupon) ID#45173:
Might backfire. The message is dire: Your government feels that the ONLY way to entice you to spend money is to hand money to you that cannot be saved but only spent. That's how bad things are.

The average Japanese will figure out a way to spend the coupon on something that will store value. Jewelry perhaps?


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:32
Chrisophilos (Rejoice poor Goldbugs!!!!!!!!!!) ID#277302:
it appears that the financial mass media is also starting to REPEND as they are showing signs of obeying Lord AUR'S wisdom.

It was very encouraging to witness an analyst on Bloomberg this morning declaring that Gold is indeed a hedge against DEFLATION.....yes, deflation....Halleluja!!!!!!!!!!

Who would have ever expected the financial mass media to report the TRUTH!!!!!!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:27
Chicken man (Gentlemen......PLEASE..) ID#341297:
Copyright © 1998 Chicken man/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Can we all agree that GENTLE men can disagree? Please think about the
title GENTLEMEN! Kind of like GENTLE Ben...I hope all posters get the hint.
Let us try some new rules...on the line of THE Golden Rule


2 ) None of us, no matter how smart we think we are has all the answers!

3 ) Let's not berate others

4 ) Let's all thank Bart for what he is providing here,not tell him what
a sorry website he has.

5 ) Let bygones be bygones.

6 ) Let's enjoy each others wisdom...Even IF we disagree..

7 ) LOVE is also a 4 letter word

Now back to the regular program...

PEACE from Chicken man.. LOVE YA ALL

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:27
panda (Tortfeasor) ID#30126:
One of the toughest things to be is a short term trader. It has taken me years to sort of get it right. The first thing that you have to do is to KILL any emotional attachments to you investments. Gold is the worst investment with regards to emotional entanglements IMO. For whatever reason, it is extremely tough to differentiate paper gold from the real thing. Don't ask me why. I don't know why. I'm a gold bug. It's a disease. :- ) )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:22
kitkat (@ROR) ID#208392:
A lot of the gold shorts seemed to be at this site and at the Silicon Investor. I tried to dispel the rumour several times, citing the link posted again by Donald this AM. As F* mentioned previously, some of our Goldbugs love to dwell on the negative and feed the rumour mill at all opportunities.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:19
panda (Gollum) ID#30126:
Copyright © 1998 panda/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If the bear market paradigm holds, the Dow's upper limit should be somewheres around 7950 for today. Intraday could be higher. Gold is down due to the expectation of deflation. The funny thing is, no one is talking about all of the 'Re-flation talk and its impact on material goods. Perhaps this is the reason that some brokerages are hawking blue chip gold stocks while out of the other corner of their mouths they are saying gold is in a dead cat bounce mode..... Obfuscation and confusion, it all starts at the top... Like Mike Dukakis said in the Bush/Dukakis presidential campaign, The fish rots from the head... :- ) )

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:17
Gollum (GCZ8 296.3 SIZ8 5.070 Spot gold 294.60 Spot silver 5.095) ID#35571:
Action in the pits!!!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:17
Tortfeasor (Tortfeasor's law) ID#37463:
It is aximatic that when I make a rather large ( at least in relationship to my own pocketbook ) investment in gold shares or the gold market the next day the gold market goes to hell. My advise is that when you know that I am going to go long on the market that you immediately go at least short term short in order to capitalize on my poor investment skills. I may be dollar cost averaging into the abyss.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:16
kitkat (Strange times to wake up to) ID#208392:
as heard on this morning's CBC news:
1 ) Mexico is outlawing compounding on interest rates
2 ) Japan in worst economic recession since WWII
3 ) Japan will give a $300 coupon to each family. The coupon must be spend quickly.
4 ) Congress voted to go ahead with impeachment proceedings.
5 ) Gold is down ?

As the Cheesehead ( moment of silence ) used to say....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:14
Mike Stewart (Technical Update) ID#270253:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Stewart/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Another good week.

The Toronto Mining Issue McClellan Summation Index continues to rise.

The New Lows on Toronto Mining issues have been at 5 or fewer issues per day for seven of the last 10 days. It hit 6 on those other three days. This could be better, and indicates that we are not in a truly explosive market at this point.It is relatively healthy though.

The trend line that rises at 2% weekly from the last major low, is at 4668 this week. ( ^tgl on yahoo quotes )

The 220 day MA for gold is at 294.16, and the 200 day MA for the Toronto Gold index is at 6284.We are on the right side of both of these measures.

Gaps on the Toronto golds weekly chart allow for a move back to around 6500 without much concern.It closed yesterday at 6854.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:12
ROR (OLD GOLD) ID#412286:
Stanley Fischer said there would be no sales. The rumor was spread by Wall St shorts who are trying to defend the stk mkt bubble at current levels.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:10
The Hatt (Interesting that Goldman today puts out a buy rec. on Gold stocks!) ID#381261:
First M.L. now Goldmans turn bullish on Gold. What do these boys know that we donot? Perhaps a short covering rally is emminent.....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:10
ROR (Buckler) ID#412286:
Looks right when he said THEY HAD to have gold down this week.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:06
OLD GOLD (RJ) ID#242325:
What is your take on all the talk of IMF gold sales? Is there any fire behind the smoke?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 09:00
sharefin (Nick@C) ID#284255:
I thought the SBS show was a fizzer.
To my mind most people who saw the program would saw that it will all be taken care of, and time to get back to the party.

There was more footage on people partying and drinking than there was on the basic services.
Oil rigs were good for 10 seconds and then they played up the disco scene as though it was dire death and panic for five minutes.
Oh! My gosh the sprinklers just came on.

They didn't say much about power except to say lights out in a Malaysian city.
Didn't mention water or sewerage infrastructure.

It did portray that Y2k is real, but really don't worry, it'll be OK.
Go and enjoy your party.

Typical PR to appease the masses.

Psalm 23, For Today's PC Times

The Lord and I are in a shepherd-sheep relationship, and I
am in a position of negative need.

He prostrates me in a green-belt grazing area, and conducts
me into lateral proximity with a non-torrential aqueous accumulation.

He restores to original satisfaction levels my
psychological makeup.

Notwithstanding the fact that I make ambulatory progress
through the non-illuminated geological interstice of mortality,
terror sensations shall not be manifest within me due to the
proximity of omnipotence.

Your pastoral walking aid and quadruped-restraint module
induce in me a
pleasurific mood state.

You design and produce a nutrient-bearing support structure
in the context of
non-cooperative elements.

You enact a head-related folk ritual utilizing vegetable
extracts, and my beverage container exhibits
inadequate volumetric parameters.

Surely it must be an intrinsic non-deductible factor that
your inter-relational, emphatic, and non-vengeful attributes
will pursue me as their target focus for the duration of
the current non-death period.

And I will possess tenant rights in the residential
facility of the Lord on a permanently open-ended
time basis

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:56
Gollum (Morning) ID#35571:
And what a morning!

Globex sharply up, yesterday's afternoon sharp rise in the market was very bullish coming as it did not at the beginning or end of the day and with no convincing news to support it.

Bonds down, that's a switch.

Dollar up, techincal retrace.

Gold down but silver up and looking quite strong.

Oil down, still expecting economic slowdown.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:50
strat (IMF gold sales) ID#93241:
IMF gold sales? What better way to declaw it than to take away its real money? And it would provide another opportunity for bargain-basement gold before the gold bull begins.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:46
RJ (..... PH .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have been blamed often, and by several, to have run ANOTHER off this site. Although my prior posts regarding that paragon of mystery were focused on the cover story and the obvious holes contained within. I pointed this out a couple time and told folks I did not believe this entity was for real. I have never argued the merits of ANOTHER’s oil for gold scenario, leaving that to the folks that like to talk about such things. I scoffed at the 30K gold figure, but it is a scoffable figure indeedy, so no apologies about that.

From time to time this place breaks out in hostility; usually when the market turns sour. I have, on occasion, been responsible for furthering that hostility, but I do not suffer fools or prevaricators easily. But this is a much nicer and more productive place without all of that, yes?

I just figured that I have been blamed ( along with LGB ) for running fellow off. Since that heat has been focused my way from time to time, I figured I may as well extract my pound of ANOTHER flesh. I just offered some fire where smoke was so often claimed to have been seen, but it is a stringy and tasteless slab-o-meat that leaves me unsatisfied and hungry still. Now my post of last eve may be used to prove that I personally have run the fellow off. It is much easier to attach blame now, don’t you think?

I have posted under the name of RJ since I started here more than a year ago. Perhaps you could ask Bart why my password does not work on K2? It seems as if the administrator of this site has decided that I may post at K2 only under another handle. I do believe that Jujube claimed he was me from the very beginning. I chose not to stop and argue this point, preferring to let the words stand on their own. I have stated many times that my password does not work on K2. This was not my decision. I don’t go there anymore either. It is a hot and windy place that chaps my lips and permeates my clothing with static cling.

I do not subscribe to the theory that you have offered nothing but scolding posts to others. I have found much of value in what you write, and you are one of the clearest communicators on this site. Your occasional chastising of my own posts were warranted at times, and no less than I have done myself when rising to the defense of an idea or another poster. I readily admit and accept my portion of responsibility for some animus which has appeared on these pages. My tone and style tend to invite a passioned response by some.

But I have, for the most part, tried to speak of markets and metals, with occasional offerings of silliness to break up the monotony. I have found this site to be profoundly more productive and pleasant when folks do not attack each other. The vast majority of the readers of this site are also sick of the hostility. In the beginning, there was a car wreck mentality, most slowing down to look of the gory wreckage. But these same folks now wearily scroll past long posts ( such as mine of early this AM ) in search of something worth reading.

I will continue to try to offer substance regarding these markets. I offer my apologies to ANOTHER ( although SHE is me ) . I also apologize to you for harsh words spoken between us in the past. I apologize to the forum at large for my unwarranted and vicious attack on ANOTHER. Regardless of how I feel about the lass, she does not deserve the kind of lashing she received from me. But now blame may be placed firmly on my shoulders, and stories of my running the mystery princess off this forum now have some substance to back them up.

Now that the bogeyman has been exposed, can we now get on to the the work of the country? A hollow phrase, that, but one that seems to issue forth from the TV whenever there is a story coming out of Washington these days. I am too busy to carry on multi-thousand word spats and I have found I must economize my time. I think this time is better spent in the study and discussion of these markets, rather than focusing on personalities. To that end will my posts be made. Pardon all if I do not have the time to respond to attacks, but will gladly respond to inquiries regarding markets or metals. Speaking of which, I’ve got to go trade some.



Platinum looks like it is holding. Had me worried. I will try to delve into the whys of this market soon. Such as why would platinum drop so severely on a day when the yen was up quite handily?


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:44
oris (Morning Kitco joke, English-style...) ID#238422:
RJ and LGB met Another and PH in LA and said to Another:

You are the fake, indeedy!

Another said:

But I got the friend, yes?

PH in LA said:

I'm his friend, and you all forget about Clinton,
damn republicans...

And LGB said:

I'm buying more Loral stock...

Oris was walking around with AK-47,
stopped for a moment and said:

What about some drink, brothers?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:42
ravenfire (wonder if YHOO et. al. will go the way of Ozemail...?) ID#333126:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:41
Mooney* (@APH) ID#348169:
Thanks APH for the update last night ( this morn ) .

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:32
ravenfire (@Donald - re: news from Mexico) ID#333126:
hmm... most interesting, sir.

has everyone forgotten Mexico while mentioning how Russia, Japan and Brazil were in financial crisis? hmmm........

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:25
Nick@C (Millenium bug swaps) ID#386245:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:16
Fordrik (Donald) ID#284191:
Not seen anything further.Only that Clinton making the same political noise after this weekend about new structured entity BIS/WB/IMF etc

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:14
Donald (Stay tuned for important news from Mexico) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:12
Nick@C (G'day Mike Sheller--The island that is long.) ID#386245:
Did you know that this was traded for Surinam in 1667 by the Dutch I wonder who got the better deal?
Just love your oisie accent, mate.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:11
Donald (Does anyone know if this ever turned into a full story? Could be important) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:05
Fordrik ( ID#284191:
The problem with Gordon Brown is he sways all over the place. Only early last week he was going to maintain firm UK's rate policy and continue with the highest real rates in Europe at 7.5%...this week well it seems that we should now be shedding some basis points. This kind of irratic behaviour will only send the Uk into ANOTHER recession sooner.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 08:02
PMF (@Donald...Interesting isn't it ?) ID#224363:
Funny how the rumour of IMF sales appeared out of nowhere - perhaps an idle remark made over a pint of beer at the G7 meeting - and all of a sudden the POG drops a few bucks.

The whole thing stinks of manipulation by the big boys ( and girls ) .

Screw them. I'm going to wait for sub $290 before I get back in. Managed to turn a tidy 45% on ABX over the last few weeks. Getting set for round 2 ( or is it 3 or 4 ? ) .

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:57
EJ (PMF -- Good post quoting the IMF spokesman) ID#45173:
''We are not going to operate in a way which puts our shareholders' resources at risk,'' he said. ''We need to hold those gold reserves as the ultimate assurance to our members of the value of their claims on this institution.''

Translation: gold is the ultimate store of value.

Chalk up another point in the plus column on the gold PR scoreboard.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:56
Donald (Britain denies that it is pushing for IMF gold sales) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:55
Fordrik () ID#284191:
Big day for dow coming Globex up 17.5 = 130 or so for dow up !@#$ Good to hear comment from Bundesbank. Gold should settle a bottom at end of today

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:52
Donald (Bundesbank says IMF gold sales were not discussed at weekend meeting) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:46
PMF (Interesting comments re: IMF gold) ID#224363:
Copyright © 1998 PMF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This was snipped from a reuters report. Sorry if it has been posted already.

''The situation in the global economy unfortunately, very regrettably, is becoming
extremely difficult and the resources now available are limited in ways that are unhelpful
to increasing confidence in the international system,'' he said.

But selling some of the IMF's 104 million ounces of gold reserves was not the
answer, Fischer said.
''We are not going to operate in a way which puts our shareholders' resources
at risk,'' he said. ''We need to hold those gold reserves as the ultimate assurance
to our members of the value of their claims on this institution.''

I really do find it interesting that whenever the price of gold threatens to increase, some wacky comments about selling reserves pops back out into the open.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:44
Mooney* (By The Light Of the Silvery Moon) ID#348169:
Good Morning ALL! BEAUTIFUL Full Moon on the western horizon right now in Toronto and Iin suppose much of Canada and States of same longitude. Is Silver Up or Down with the Moon today?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:44
Silverbaron (Silver - upcoming turn?) ID#288466:

The Gold/Silver ratio ( basis Dec futures ) is now at 59+. There seems to be good overhead resistance at 60 - Look for a turn at $5.00 silver, or a few cents below. If Gold/Silver ratio breaks 60, next target for silver is about $4.60, for a ratio of 65.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:29
MM () ID#350195:
World Bank Management Backs Emergency Loan Plan

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:23
Mike Sheller (yew call 'at a snaike?) ID#347447:
Having raised a burmese python from a 24 pup to a 17 footer when he died, this morning's banter re elongated reptilians brings back fond memories. Reminds me as well of the line in Crocodile Dundee where a New Yawk Ciddy tough pulls an evil looking blade on the visiting Aussie and warns him he's got a knife. Ol' Croc responds Yew call 'at a noife? Then whips out his 18 inch Bowie - iss 'eres a noife!

Yew call 'at a snoike?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:19
MM (Squirrel (I wonder how devaluation fits in here?)) ID#350195:
When adding value takes on a new meaning...

Defacement of Currency

Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 474 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item ( s ) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their address is: United States Secret Service, 1800 G Street, N. W., Washington, DC 20223

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:17
General (to Explorer) ID#365216:
You are in LA LA Land, buddy.

Sure, everyone in the big city is going to pitch together
to help get us on track. I would love to believe this and
I do plan to help who I can but I am also prepared to stop
those who would plan to forcibly take what I have, including
my life. And if you think Y2K is BS, you are not very

That is all.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:15
Nick@C (Three new wars coming soon.) ID#386245:
1 ) Serbs defiant. Nato bombing imminent.
2 ) Turks and Syrians fighting over Kurds and water. Israel aloof.
3 ) Pubs and Dems fight over wee willie perjury, obstruction and general bullsh***ery.
Monica turns down squillions to appear on Oprah--holds out for bigger bickies.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:09
General (Y2K riot control) ID#365216:
Check out this ad for a pair of excellent Y2K riot protection
devices if legal in your state for ownership. Not only do these
provide the ultimate in urban control if necessary but are excellent
collector pieces going up in value all the time.

The new G7: God, gold, guns, grub, generators, ?, ?

Here's the site for those twin beauties:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 07:03
Nick@C (Y2K program) ID#386245:
Took two pages of notes. Am doubling my preparations forthwith!!
3rd impeachment proceedings in US history. Repubs pushing for Nov. 3rd elections!! Screw the lot of 'em.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 06:41
Envy (Equity Markets) ID#219363:
Looking pretty good today, Hong Kong on holiday or quote server messed up ?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 06:37
Envy (Aussies) ID#219363:
Just wanted to throw out a happy good morning to the soon to be sleeping aussies.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 06:26
Auric (sharefin) ID#255151:

Congressman Barr slipped a little hand grenade into the impeachment proceedings at the last minute. The Judicial Watch Interim Report to Congress is now part of the record. Forget Monica, this stuff is explosive! Also, keep your eye on the tainted blood scandal. So long for now, going to listen to my new Marcelle Marceau CD.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 06:02
sharefin (TV News) ID#284255:
Impeachment proceedings will be taken against B Clinton

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 06:01
Nick@C (Aussies----The Millenium Time Bomb) ID#386245:
8 PM SBS starting NOW.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:58
aurator (Ag & Au ---- Hay!! daylight saving time, gives me more have @@@ with my baby,,,) ID#25490:
the only money that means anything is gold and silver. When they talked of money in antiquity they meant gold or silver. All my money is in gold and silver. I have paper too. that has pretty pictures on it an important looking numbers. sometimes I change it for other pater

These pretty paper pictures with important looking numbers are like so much fluff in the wind.

I'm amazed you can do so much with them! Like, change them for REAL money!!

Do you remember that 1/2 Dwt coin from San Francisco c 1854 that was in the Gold Museum in Ballarat? Part of Simon Cohen's gift to the town, and, ultimately to the world. I tried to take a photo of it and, well it exceded my capabilites.

That is one heck of a collection of gold coins!!!!

That's one heck of collection of gold nuggets!!!!

That's one heck of collection.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:49
jims (London: Gold 296.50 Silver up three cents.) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Comments on this board seem to reflect the market ofr precious metals...scattered, not focused particularily on the bullish or the bearish. Seems we are all a bid at a loss as to what to do with the pull back from $300 in gold especially in view of the general belief now that there is a huge short overhang.

European interest rates seem to be on the decline and Spain has lowered and Britian is expected to be next. European stock markets up 2-4% - another rally coming for the Dow and S&P. Hope I don't look back at this 980 level on the S&P as a having been a great buy. Comments here have been pretty bearish and rightfully so for months - just getting a little crowded.

Suspect we will see a meandering for gold and silver for a few more days. I think PT looks pretty bad having pulled out $340. PD could go to $250 if 275 gives out in my opinion. I beginning to feel this rally is suspect - probably a good bullish indicator.

Looking for a slight up in metals today, but nothing to hang your technical hat on. A bottom may have been made but a bull trend looks to need time to get started.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:47
contrarian (clinton and snakes) ID#203236:
was the snake on drugs ie coke? ask Perot.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:44
Nick@C (Auraleverage!!) ID#386245:

You don't think I'd bet my OWN money on the gold casino

All my money is in physical.

cheers@Long Term Nick Management.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:41
aurator (Clinton : animals post: snakes, lizards, dinosaurs and worms) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
less than a minute after that carpet snake slithered in front of me at Nimbin, I saw a goanna. Didn't look harmless to me. Damn thing had me wondering if I was in the right epoch.

Have you ever seen a tuatara? Is supposed to be one of the last dinosaurs, although is rat-sized, it looks like a dinosaur, it is a living fossil, of NZ. It looks like no other critter on earth.

And then there's peripitus an ugly black, slimy segmented flatworm, also native to NZ now wreaking havoc back in Britland where it was introduced inadvertantly from NZ. It has no predators in UK, it eats grasslands...baaaad news for sheep.real bad news for britland.

umm go gold.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:33
Fordrik (anyone?) ID#284191:
Not listening for two days. If USd has been down why gold too?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:26
aurator (LTCM --Old wisdom - Boring stuff - scroll by---) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Half a mo! I am not defending LTCM, I am merely distinguishing FRAUD like Nilson, or Gleeson or whatever the hell this barrow-boy was called, with lunatic incaution a la LTCM.

So far, I've not seen any evidence of falsification of LTCM records.

LTCM seem to have forgotten the oldest wisdom of the borrower who wants to keep his kneecaps: NEVER borrow long to lend short.

Sure, there's a few 1990's curls, but the leverage that LTCM were obtainng ( c.f. your 17% profit in once day--imagine if you had been able to leverage your equity by 100:1,or on some reckonings 1000:1--- what would your profit have been then for one day? If you had that sort of leverage? My guess is you could have made, ahhem, squillions.

So far, I've seen no fraud at LTCM. We will see real FRAUD soon, not yet, perhaps in the CRIIMAE post that Donald just posted, there may be the first whiff... ( you heard it hear/here/ hear )

But the LTCM did not need fraud to fail.

just hubris.

Just testing my nose

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:23
Hedgehog (hmmmmmmm, I think) ID#39857:
we are all going to be served on a platter made of precious metal, believe me as you will, but I think the whole freekin game is nearly
re snakes. had some really cute moments with snakes like the time a mummy red belly with young uns in tow crossed my track 10 feet
ahead, tigers would be different, though still a reasonable situation
if your there.
no, my vote for scarry creatures goes to goannas and crocs, they have
got outright rude, uptsart aggression, that can tear at your heart.
snakes........? dont believe the myths.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:18
Nick@C (G'day ravenfire) ID#386245:
Took some profits today, mate. I never look a gift horse in the mouth. Am holding on to RSG--waiting for the Preston meeting on 16 Oct. With the all clear they will be extremely undervalued. $300 m cash in the kitty and big low cost gold mines. Such a deal. Even beats eating durian!!

Should be a good Y2K program tonight.

For any Aussies who missed it---Y2K on SBS at 8 pm tonight ( 40 minutes from now ) .


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:16
Donald (The clicking sound you hear is Japanese pocket books snapping shut.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:11
Donald (LTCM bailout causing banks to stick it to other borrowers) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:09
Nick@C (Auradefender of 'innocents') ID#386245:
Nick Leeson was small potatoes on the criminal scale compared to these LTCM Nobel rocket scientists. What kind of criminality is it that puts the entire world's financial system at risk? These LTCM guys rate with the worst financial criminals in our poor orb's history. Can you imagine the carnage if these guys hadn't been bailed out We may yet see act II of the greatest financial crime in history. The whole bunch of them should be hung by the gonads from the nearest oak tree.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:01
Donald (That commercial mortgage bankruptcy is involving some big names.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:01
ravenfire (Nick@C) ID#333126:
thanks for the TV recommendation, dude :- )

will keep that slot free.

are you still holding on to those big Au miners of yours?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 05:00
aurator (Dynamite---those Nobel Prizes_____-) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Whoah there fella!
you said

Nick Leeson is currently serving a long term in a Singapore jail for a very similar offence to that committed by the directors of LTCM.

Leeson, crooked barrow boy that he was, falsified documents, altered settlement statements and deliberately hid his illicit dealings from the overseers of Barings in London. He is a crook. He bet the wrong way, then tried to cover his arse. I've not seen any hint that the LTCM fellas have falsified documents, or behaved fraudulently. Idiotically perhaps, salted with hubris, the hubris that comes with a Nobel Prize but nothing yet about nefarious tampering with records...have you?

I hope you are always going to be able to liquidate your gold paper profits.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:51
Donald (The largest commercial mortgage firm files for bankruptcy) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:47
Nick@C (Aussies--LISTEN UP) ID#386245:
Tonight 8PM ( east coast ) on SBS is The Millenium Time Bomb. Saw the previews of ...the worst industrial accident in history. WATCH IT!! Our media is now taking this seriously--at long last.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:39
aurator () ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
What a breath of fresh air you have given us! All we hear is how bad the Merkin cities are going to be like, your post sounds much more like the good sensed responses we have traditionally had to natural disasters.
Pitch in. Help your neighbours. Help strangers ( they become friends, perhaps better friends than you've known before ) I find it hard to believe that I and my countrymen are so different from yours. Of course, *we* don't believe that bears should have right arms like you's fellas do ( or something like that ) but we donwanna get into that again.....

A long time ago I discovered this, it was written 2,000 years ago:

“Ignis aurum probat, miseria fortes viros.”

Fire tests gold; adversity tests strong men.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:28
aurator (Who's that, tapping on my shoulder? ) ID#25490:
Don't want you to think I've become a spoon-bender, but I've just placed a couple of Morgans and a silver Can $ on the window-ledge in the light of the full moon, as lakshmi suggested earlier. collecting moonbeams.

catch a falling star and put it in your pocket
never let it fade away.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:26
Explorer (This YK2 stuff is bullcrap,the problem in the US is the FED and their political lackeys) ID#22882:

I'm a former New Yorker who went through the great power failure.
New York is known for its diversities, different races, religions and national ethnic groups. I can say that during that failure animosities took the back seat and all pulled together, worked together and solved the problem.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:25
Nick@C (Y2what) ID#386245:

Posted by finnie Good stuff. Thanks fin who shares. I am now supporting the Queensland economy. cheers, Nick@Bundaberg central.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:23
sharefin (Lots of IMF news here) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:19
aurator (I spy with my little eye a 1/10 maple nestléd amongst......) ID#25490:
It's my pick too, sheet, we're gonna be on summer holiday, beach, barbQs, and suntan lotion.

I'll be doing my best to hone my sovereign-spotting skills.

Wouldn't wanna be in a N Merkin city of millions, uh uh.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:09
Nick@C (Aura-arachnid) ID#386245:
Absolutely correct, mate. Y2K will be the biggest piss-up ever in Antipodoea--at least until the beer runs out. Then we will help each other find food, fuel etc. Did you see the pictures of the big steam engine one company set up in the Victorian gas crisis Lots of people bbq'ing, sharing showers ( now that could be fun ) and generally helping each other out.

I would not want to be in a big American city. Lots of guns and no food is a dangerous combination.
I thought that last post would flush mozel out.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:08
contrarian (my banker) ID#203236:
he says gold will trade within narrow range now of between 295 to 303. Any move to around 320 will meet with heavy selling fom banks, producers etc. -- so much for bankers!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 04:03
aurator (Punctuality The courtesy of kings......) ID#25490:
Are you early or is the server a minute slow :- )
I speak for many: Thanks

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:59
Dabchick (Monday's Gold and Silver Lease Rates) ID#258195:
Copyright © 1998 Dabchick/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here are the Lease Rates for 05 Oct calculated from data published in the Financial Times this morning.
MGLR and Silver Lending Rates are supplied to the FT by NM Rothschild .

GOLD------------1- month--------3-month--------6- month---------12- month
Gold Lease Rate---1.37---------------1.85-------------1.82-----------------1.92
( Change ) ----- ( - 0.04 ) -------- ( + 0.08 ) ------- ( + 0.06 ) ------------ ( + 0.13 )

SILVER----------1- month--------3- month-------6- month----------12- month
Silver Lend Rate--3.20--------------2.25--------------1.55-----------------1.50
Silver Lease Rate-2.18--------------3.06--------------3.57-----------------3.41
( Change ) ------ ( - 0.90 ) -------- ( - 1.00 ) ------ ( - 0.75 ) ----------- ( - 0.80 )
The lines labelled ( Change ) = change in lease rates since yesterday's figures.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:54
aurator () ID#25490:
The red backs were escapees from the lucky country like opposum and most of our prison population, not invitees. On to more cereal stuff...I think your reply to sharefin re bringing another slab to prepare for armegeddon is more like its gonna be down under. can't see too many people drawing weapons over a can of baked beans, eh?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:52
Nick@C (US Justice) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If I perjured myself before a US grand jury, I would go to jail. The Prez will more than likely finish his term with a slap on the wrist.

Nick Leeson is currently serving a long term in a Singapore jail for a very similar offence to that committed by the directors of LTCM. Many other hedge fund managers have recklessly gambled away their shareholder's wealth. Do they go to jail Hell no!! The gubmint intervenes and GIVES THEM MORE MONEY!!! AG and RR are now accomplices to the crime. If LTCM now goes under, they will do so at the connivance of the highest officials in the land, and with even more of various bank shareholder's funds.

US Justice Certainly an oxymoron.
I won't even mention O.J.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:32
Nick@C (arden/auric/auracious) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
arden--re: my daughter's safety and snakes. Yes, Australia has many poisonous snakes. Statistically speaking, however, more people are killed by bees than snakes every year. Should I stop my daughter from going outside? We live on the edge of a city ( semi-rural ) . The snakes have been here a lot longer than we have. They migrate through this area every year. Do they worry me No!! They will do their damndest to get out of my way. If I step on one, I get some antivenene quickly as they are extremely poisonous ( as are the majority of Aussie snakes ) . They are not aggressive. I'm sure many more people are killed by rattlers per capita. I see a snake maybe twice a year on my property. I never kill them unless I have no other way out ( once in ten years ) . My daughter is in much more danger from the human variety.

auracious/auric--there's a good book in this somewhere. 'The Herpetologist/Arachnologist Who Blackmailed N.Z.' Why did you import the red backs? I've got heaps I can send you. Does the N.Z. gov't have a bounty on them? Auric--red back is a cousin of the black widow. I hope all these scary stories about snakes/spiders will keep the tourist numbers down.
Sorry Bart. Haven't even had a drink. I will never make another off-topic post again. xx. Speaking of ANOTHER. RJ--how can he be you when he is I We will watch this market together, yes?
Now where was I? Gold. Yes!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:28
mozel (@Gold Short) ID#153110:
London is far away. Gold trades there as the toy of giants.
Coin shops are the little man's polling place. His vote is cast,
for gold lasts, come what may when giants stumble.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:18
aurator (evening thoughts from aguy) ID#25490:
Liam Neeson?
That was Harry Nilson, rogue troubadour..

I think I'll see a bookie about the Y2K Auckland Cup, especially if the photo-finish gear don't work and the dope testing thingies dont work and the TAB ( Betting System ) don't work. Talk about Risk management!! :- )

A golden opportunity?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:17
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Goodnight All....

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:15
mozel (@Foggy Mysterioso) ID#153110:
The heat and illumination of Great Fires dispells many mysteries.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:15
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
John Disney -- It doesn't necessarily matter if they are short 350 tons or not, anymore than anyother hedge fund being short. Bottom line is that if they can control the market by dumping more sell orders on it, then the market will typically respond accordingly. Just makes it even more dangerous for them if they really are short the gold. But then again, you either buy time and try to cover at lower prices and become a 'hero', or totally fail and bring others down too. One day does not sing the tune of a market. As usual, time will tell, but with the
reserve' currency looking for the dumpster and the bonds dumping their rates, and 'safety' beginning to look for alternatives, it seems that gold should be finding some fairly quick support. If not, it truly is a different kind of ball-game where there is no 'percieved' safety what-so-ever; where investors will let their wealth melt rather than even try gold. Where else would one go at the demise of a CONfidence game? Truly distinctive if that should happen!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 03:07
John Disney (Little known fact(oid) from Tuscany) ID#24135:
For Mozel ..
The Italian Sister City of Foggy Bottom USA is
a small mountain village called Posteriore Mysterioso..

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:51
John Disney (morning thoughts from abroad..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For Silverbaron/bullybeef ..
hey are you sure that wasnt Jackie Leeson .. or
was it Liam Gleeson .. errr... Nickie Nielson ..

for Salty ..
Precict that first race of year 2000 will be run
in record time .. Race one on the card will be
a 1000 meter sprint and will be run in MINUS
300,000,000,000 seconds ( more or less ) .. This track
record will NEVER be broken.

Translation ..
Metallica preciosa da roma .. Analysis..
Da prisa da gold she no acted lika somabody hesa
short no 350 tonsa .. datsa all I gotta say

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:46
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
mozel -- I.E., jack-boot!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:41
mozel (@Eldorado) ID#153110:
The Idiots of Power in Foggy Bottom are not going to wither away no matter how bad it gets out here in the real world. They actually think they have solutions and a right to impose them on us willy nilly. They don't have the decency to say We're broke and go home.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:39
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Gianni Dioro -- I just cannot seem to shake it out of my head that gold will again sell to a premium over platinum, regardless of what gold is then selling for. Really deep DOO_DOO is prognosticated in the currency markets, and demand for autos, homes, appliances, job supplicants, etc should that happen, unless Russia finds an unopened warehouse full of the stuff that otherwise causes its demise in price.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:37
John Disney (translation ..) ID#24135:
Article from Metallica Preciosa da Roma follows ..

No lika da platinum. Da platinum she gonna do down.
My son he no like da platinum too. My momma whena she
wasa alive she lika da platinum but thingsa they
change. My dog even he barka da platinum ..

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:32
mozel (@Gianni @SDRer) ID#153110:
And can we not expect Platinum to come pouring out of Japan from jewelry as Gold was drawn from Korea ?

@SDRer I have been looking for a follow up to the tale told by gold import-export figures. It looked to me from what was posted that 3/4 billion of gold moved last year from Asia through Australia to the USA. With about 1/2 billion from S Korea. Any more added to this tale would be of great interest.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:27
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
James -- You may do quite well in just surviving! But I think that as the tumult accelerates and the demise of paper continues, that physical commodities will be the place to be. That and survival needs. That doesn't mean fluctuations will not exist. But, it'll all get to a point that you will find that it doesn't matter what something costs 'cause you simply need it! Thus, get it NOW! Don't trade your gold for survival, unless it gets to that point. GET your OTHER GOODS NOW ALSO! They'll be MORE valuable to you than the metals in the interim. The gold is for later; to pick up the 'pieces' with; to restart economies with, without resorting to pure barter. It's a b*tch to start with nothing but your hands and no capital, and no goods. No one can do it all. A division-of-labor is a necessary prerequisite to civilization, and a just and equitable means of trade to do it is necessary. That's where the metals will be found to be useful once again.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:24
Auric (The Leonids Are Coming!) ID#257312:

This has been discussed at Kitco before, but
not recently. There is a small chance that
these meteors could knock out a satellite or
two. Will be here November 17th. Considering how snake bit we have been this year, I wouldn't bet against it.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:23
mozel (@Bonzai !) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In retrospect, I think it will be apparent that the Japanese precipitated the demise of the FDR System of Corporate Socialism.
Not intentionally, but certainly by reason of their culture.
Simply put, contradictions in the fiat credit system for socialization of risk, a system which actually originated in Germany, but was spread worldwide by the USA after WWII, were less damaging in the West because of cultural differences of attitude than they were in the East where the group is the significant social unit in most circumstances. It was these cultural distinctions which led to the development of Japan, Inc. and it was Japan, Inc. which determined market share was more important than rate of return because market share meant full employment in Japan. It follows from this that credit evaluation would be not very important. Further, the Japanese emphasis on face and social courtesy militated against any approximation of harsh Western methods of credit evaluation. Nothing was done in Japan that was not done in the West in the end, including government intervention to support share prices. But, everything was done in Japan to a logical excess. There is something fundamentally wrong when the corporations of the world's creditor nation have the lowest returns on equity. The Japanese are not at fault, really. They used the system put in place by MacArthur as they understood it and could adapt it to their customs. The West went along to get along. And here we are.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:20
Shadowfax (Moral of this story...GET LIQUID) ID#290281:

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:18
sharefin (Aurator) ID#284255:
It wasn't a true snake.
I caught it in the sea on a piece of garfish.
It had these huge jaws with needle sharp teeth.
Which it promptly sunk into my gumboot. ( a true kiwi see )

It was so unusual that it got sent off to the Wellington museum.

There they classified it as a snake eel.
Only the second to be seen in NZ
The other one caught in Auckland.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:11
Gianni Dioro (@Theme, Platinum) ID#384350:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Platinum is used in catalytic converters. Demand for automobiles and catalytic converters should decline dramatically in the next several years IMO. Platinum has no history as money unlike Gold or Silver.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 02:10
aurator (spiders ~~~crusty~~~~the nags~~~Y2K) ID#25490:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It's true! It's true! there have been a very few red backs seen in the BOP, imported by a homesick australian? I'd forgotten those. I dunno about the snake, I'll take your word for it... And up this way we have The Avondale Spider imported from Aussie with the wood to build the Avondale Raceway. This tarantula ( ? ) spider grows in NZ to the size of a side-plate, a hand-span, much larger than their Aussie progenitors. ( Then again we have a native earthworm that grows up 2'6.

Y2K & Sporting Events. I suspect the first sporting event, run at 14:00 hours ( about ) on 01/01/00 will be the Auckland Cup. Run at Ellerslie, not Avondale, where there are no spiders. I wonder if the photo-finish equipment will function?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:58
aurator () ID#25490:
Some slice of heaven. Indeedy.

( It looks a lot better the less hard you look )


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:57
sharefin (Snowbird - my sentiments eggsactly) ID#284255:
If someone's posts are not to your liking please don't read them.
Please be kind enough to respect this for us as we will for your posters. Thanks

Who needs to waste our precious bandwidth.
( I'm bound to be flamed for this - ha )

Living in the land of no snakes and spiders.

Now tell me it's not true.
I caught em both.
The last of the species?

Not while there's a politican in your backyard. ( :- ) ) )

That was just a snip from the email.
Talk about loss of confidence.
As for your early call.
Kitco is full of early calls full of wisdom.
But the forrest is full of trees.

So many good calls eminate from the Hallowed_Halls_of_Wisdom@KITCO

Kudos for the Wisdom_Wise@Kitco

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:57
James (Just in case anyone is feeling cheerfull or optimistic tonight, I'll post the first) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
chapter from my latest Friedbergs letter:

All attempts to stave off the coming global depression will come to naught.Like a terminally ill patient, the best the G-7 & it's associated institutions can do is ease the pain, smoothing out the violent & recurrent spasms that will occur on the way to demise.

From here on, they really get negative-another chapter:

It is easy to see that each one of these 2 policy errors by themselves- easy money & the bailout of bankrupts and imprudent creditors-has disastrous long term consequences. The combination is leading to nothing less than an economic holocaust.

I've been following Friedberg for close to 20 yrs & although he is often early on his mkt calls he is very seldom wrong. I've pretty well given on hope on our western societies surviving the coming turmoil without wrenching & almost unimaginable changes. I not even sure that there is anywhere to hide financially. The survivalists' direst predictions may come true.

To bed to dream of my impregnable mountain top retreat.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:56
mozel (@Golden Marbles) ID#153110:
A small gold orb or wafer within one of glass. Is this technically feasible ?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:54
PH in LA (No more prezels in this foodfight!) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

We seem to have closely approached that brink leading to personal insult again. This was not my purpose in composing my questions to you this morning! At the expense of leaving you with the last word, I am backing away from this precepice and am not going to twist your words into prezels again. But if only to convince you that I could, and very easily if I wanted to, let me just make one simple observation.

Who are you calling ANOTHER and his friend liars? Do you still maintain that little fiction of your own called Jujube? Did you not come into my house parading that one around? On the same day that you denounce ANOTHER as a liar, you issue the absurd claim that you have been him all along! And you think you can claim to hate liars?

It is all too easy to twist into foodstuffs words that are too easily composed. You might consider this bit of folk wisdom: Always remember to engage brain before putting mouth in gear!

As for LGB and the high regard you pretend to have for him; take note of this: When challenged to answer the questions you so easily handled and prodded again to identify the post in which Farfel specified 2 - 3 days for his predicted short squeeze, LGB exploded into a veritable paroxism of pointless vitriol rather than address the questions at hand. This alone is enough to illuminate his character. Next time you speak with him, tell him that I no longer visit K-2...too many clowns over there!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:52
Dabchick (Conundrum) ID#258195:
If RJ says he is ANOTHER, and RJ says ANOTHER is a liar, does that mean RJ is a liar? And if RJ is a liar, does that mean he is not ANOTHER? And if RJ is not ANOTHER, .................oh dear...........that's the trouble with never can trust them again once you know it, cos U never know whether or not they are lying.
No Indeedy

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:47
BillinOregon (Tolerant1) ID#262242:
How beautiful they are and how nice they feel in the hand and around the neck.


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:47
mozel (@aurator) ID#153110:
Almost Heaven, huh ?

Did anybody mark the date when the word international was supplanted by the word global ?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:42
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
mozel -- HAR! HOW TRUE!!! Doesn't help with all those 'suicides' laying about either!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:38
Jack (Preacher!) ID#237264:

How do you see Netoltzki's crew at Viceroy Resource doing in Argentina? Company is cash rich and well hedged on their production from two NA mines.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:38
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Now, as far as the bonds go, once this scenario started, it shouldn't end anytime real soon. The reason to lower rates at all was to help 'liquify' the world economies. I.E., save the paper. Since the 1/4% rate decrease, the market has factored in ANOTHER 1/2 % ! I don't think we've seen anything like a top n bonds yet. Maybe a slowdown in the move up, but not the top. If factoring a full 1/2% in at this point, I'd factor another .1 - .15% to it for a temporary base. That means the fed would lower a 1/2% next time. ANYTHING to keep the CONfidence game going a minute longer. HAR! If you got marbles in the ring, best you pick 'em up and take them home. S__T is ACCELLERATING!
Should be interesting to see if they can pull the majic rabbit out of the hat and make it grin!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:38
PrivateInvestor (sharefin) ID#225283:

19 of 20banks are toast...& the whole world is in Deep Kim Chee...these were the worlds largest banks only a short while back...and I stated on sight nearly 18 months ago the Real Depression will begin with acknowledgement of the systemic failure of the Nipponese banks...a huge loss of face...if it was any other country we would be witness to riots in the streets.!!!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:34
aurator (inverse security law) ID#25490:
Which is why the rational individual lives in NZ.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:31
mozel (Mozel's Law of National Security) ID#153110:
The security of the individual in a nation varies inversely in proportion to the size of the Maximum Leader's security detail.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:28
aurator () ID#25490:
That'll be the Red Back, I think, as in the Slim Dusty ( ? ) Red Back on the Toilet Seat aussie outback anthem. They got some real nasty spiders over there, & they don't all have eight legs..

Good to see you back

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:24
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Paper, and the debt it is built upon will find its true inherent value. It is already working on doing so. The interesting thing I see here is that SOOOO many do not realize it; They are still 'pricing' the physical in paper! As much as some still proclaim from their soapboxes that all is ASB, it is TIME to be looking at physical 'value' vs. 'physical' value. I.E., start pricing this stuff in terms of other needful physical stuff. You'll be finding that your precious paper 'valuations' are/will continue to deteriorate. You may even see these commodity prices continue to 'depreciate' also in terms of this debt ridden paper, but NOT to the extremes of the paper itself. Simply, look for valuations between the physical commodities. Paper will find its real level, way, way south of them. Ask anybody in those oh-so-many other countries to date! Above stocking away the precious, stock away those other needful items required under another failed usury-based system. The times are NASB!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:17
Preacher (XAU & POM) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The XAU has taken out its Aug/Jul/Jun highs. But not the May high. Still, that's nice work for the month of Sep. There are three gaps that want filling below the current price.

I guess the story is, will the next low bottom above the previous bottom? With the higher highs in place, this would show the beginning of an uptrend, something we need greatly.

A quick word on deflation/inflation. One poster made a few excellent comments on deflation yesterday. I plan on quoting him to my friends in order to appear intelligent.

Of course, one man's deflation can be another man's inflation. If deflation causes harm to U.S. stocks and the economy, then we could see the dollar fall and the prices for goods costing more.

This is what happened in the countries that have seen a bull market in gold relative to their currencies -- deflation caused inflation. Their currencies collapsed and the price of gold rose when measured in those currencies.

The U.S. may very well experience the same thing. In fact, it already has to a degree. The dollar index has dropped by about 7% since late August while gold has climbed in dollar terms about the same percentage.

I think over time we'll see more of this.

One more goodie before I get to one of my favorite topics. Today, on the chart of the Dow 30, the 100-day MA crossed below the 200-day MA. This is one more confirmation of the bear market.

The Dow 20 has been leading the Dow 30. The Dow 20 has made a new low. The Dow 30 should follow. If/when it does, this will confirm another leg down in the Dow markets ( Dow Theory ) . If it doesn't, then the bear market is over and up and away we go.

I doubt it, really.

I haven't told you stock buyers about Polymet Mining ( POM.Vancouver, C$1.15 ) . This is one of the greatest stories I've ever seen. The deposit sits in Minnesota, found many years ago by U.S. Steel. It is a huge polymetalic deposit, 808 million tons with low-grade amounts of copper, nickel, silver, gold, platinum, palladium, cobalt, and a few others.

Metallurgy has always been a problem. We think that is about solved now. The company has assembled a management team whose talent is rarely encountered in a Vancouver company. Hopefully, it will move to Toronto soon.

This deposit is larger than the Diamondfields deposit whose stock went to C$140. I kid you not. As it becomes known that this is a viable deposit, I think the shares should soar. Maybe not to C$140, but who knows.

Look it up and check it out. I think you'll be glad you did.

The Preacher

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:17
snowbird (Trashing RJ or anyone else is unnecessary!!!) ID#220325:
If someone's posts are not to your liking please don't read them. This is what I do and it saves me a lot of consternation. Many of us respect RJ's opinion and want him to continue to post here. Please be kind enough to respect this for us as we will for your posters. Thanks

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:16
PrivateInvestor (riddle) ID#225283:

if LTC was short 350 tonnes...& other hedge funds are short 2000 or 3000 tonnes and all bankers have been forced to cut of ( bullion&cash ) loans how many months of prodution will be needed to cover shorts & how will this impact on POG & hedge funds...i hear Soros is looking to put hurt on some major players...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:15
Auric (Spiders and Snakes) ID#257312:

Remember reading in the National Geographics, that I kept hidden under my matress as a kid, that Australia has more poisonous spiders and snakes than any other country. There is one particularly nasty spider that likes to hide in toilets, and attacks when disturbed!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 01:06
aurator (If you're skating on thin ice, You might as well dance.....) ID#25490:
We got no snakes in NZ, apart from slimy politicians, that is. Glad you done scared the crittur off...largest snake I saw was a carpet snake in Nimbin NSW 12 foot, so my travelling companion said. I took his word for it..

Hmmm looks like we had a food fight? got some reading to do, yes?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:48
Pete (Greenstone Gold(I like HAGGIS better), Jack & THC) ID#222231:
PREDICTION BY MR. KNOWITALL: PT will explode upwards and outward shortly ( SOUND FAMILIAR ) . One caveat though; unless the Japanese ( THEY REALLY LOVE THEIR PT ) market and banking systems collapse. A small risk. IMHO. {; ) )

GTBADAL ( Going to bed and dream about Lolita )


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:34
TheMissingLink (RJ is Another?) ID#373403:
Does that mean that $30,000/oz gold was just made up?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:34
arden (browns? or grizzlys?) ID#257344:
Copyright © 1998 arden/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Nick@C - I have had a few 'mates' who told me about 'browns' I hate snakes and have a great respect ( fear ) of them having come too close ( stepped on ) too many rattle snakes at times. But how can you be in a place where your daughter is at risk? I love my own dearly, why is she at risk?

I recently came back from a trip to Alaska inspecting our gold placer. I saw two grizzly bears, one going and one coming back. I read a book of encounters with such creatures and realized that I was completely naive. Although I have spend most of my fifty years in the bush, I never thought that I was the prey until now! Yes, I subjected my son and daughter to the same ignorant risk, but my God man, it is your child! ( Don't let her invest in hedge funds either! ) .

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:32
APH (Trading - Mooney) ID#255226:
I've been trading the SnP ranges, was looking for an up day Mon and Tues to get short around 1035-1040. Doesn't look like it's going to happen. I shorted dec silver at 521 not sure where the low will be will let you know. This week dec gold looks like a buy under 293.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:31
mozel (@Credit To D.C. Dave) ID#153110:
But now that he's brought it up I'd really like to know what time Vince Foster exited the WH Compound on the day of his strange death and what time his car exited and who was driving it. Is it at all plausible there is no record of this given the level of security there ?

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:23
RJ (..... Gee Pete .....) ID#411150:



Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:18
Jack () ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Pete, please keep my handle out of these food fights ( smilie thing ) , I'm one'na'ya.
As for the food fights; what goes around comes around. Leeky Government Bugger ( aka many handles ) , Realistic and the federal lackey herd are set to be scamped

Squirrel, if NORFED'S outlets bought silver with each Federal Reserve note exchanged for one of their silver convertable notes and they were made legally binding to exchange their notes for pure silver on demand; it would work.

One has to chose between freedom; or the FED.

If this catches on it could make WB's silver purchase look like kid stuff. What really interests me is their desire to rid us of the FED.

Community businesses would have to accept their notes in exchange for services.

And thanks for running interference if you get my gist.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:18
Theme Investor__A (Platinum) ID#317358:

RJ and knowledgeable others.....would appreciate a detailed prognostication on platinum. Thanks...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:18
Theme Investor__A (Platinum) ID#317358:

RJ and knowledgeable others.....would appreciate a detailed prognostication on platinum. Thanks...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:18
Theme (Platinum) ID#317358:

RJ and knowledgeable others.....would appreciate a detailed prognostication on platinum. Thanks...

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:17
Jack () ID#254288:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Pete, please keep my handle out of these food fights, I'm one'na'ya. As for the food fights; what goes around comes around. Leeky Government Bugger ( aka many handles ) , Realistic and the federal lackey herd set to be scamped

Squirrel, if NORFED'S outlets bought silver with each Federal Reserve note exchanged for one of their silver convertable notes and they were made legally binding to exchange their notes for pure silver on demand; it would work.

One has to chose between freedom or the FED.

If this catches on it could make WB's silver purchase look like kid stuff. What really interests me is their desire to rid us of the FED.

Community businesses would have to accept their notes in exchange for services.

And thanks for running interference if you get my gist.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:09
Greenstone Gold (Pete (RJ, or should I say Mr. Wonderful).....) ID#428218:


Whats the difference between 400 million and 4 million ounces on the GOLD derivatives trade..... ?

Being bankrupt, and nearly bankrupt........?

4 million ounces is not a drop in the ocean, it is 2 years production from the largest gold mine in the world.

I'm sure that ANOTHER would never, in his wildest dreams, confess to being RJ.........would you ?!

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:08
sharefin (Snipped from the web) ID#284255:
My brother is managing director for one of the major Japanese banks.
He's shaking! Its all over for this bank, in so many words, and according to
him its only a matter of time before the whole world knows what the the
powers that be know.

Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:04
RJ (..... Wha' Happened? .....) ID#411150:

That last link does not work

The PMR is to be found at:


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:04
THC__A (@RJ, John D. & Others interested in Pt) ID#367411:
Copyright © 1998 THC__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Pt Downside Breakout?

All Pt longs, looks like it's time to break out the longboards......the surf is getting mighty rough.........the big drop today provided me with a courtesy margin warning from my broker.........

If Pt breaks the historical low of $329 ( correct me if I'm wrong ) , then where can we look for support? It might be wise to take a look at the yen charts. In yen terms, Pt is way above the historical low of 1134 yen/g on May 10, 1995.

So while in $ terms there is no clear bottom support past $329, in yen terms we still have a major downside target! Right now we are holding on just above 1400 yen, but if we break it we might head for 1300........

Since a large amount of Pt is traded in yen, it makes sense to consider the yen technicals as well....I'd like to hear more opinions about yen charts vs. dollar charts & their relative validity/influence on the market.

Good luck to all,


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:04
THC__A (@RJ, John D. & Others interested in Pt) ID#367411:
Copyright © 1998 THC__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Pt Downside Breakout?

All Pt longs, looks like it's time to break out the longboards......the surf is getting mighty rough.........the big drop today provided me with a courtesy margin warning from my broker.........

If Pt breaks the historical low of $329 ( correct me if I'm wrong ) , then where can we look for support? It might be wise to take a look at the yen charts. In yen terms, Pt is way above the historical low of 1134 yen/g on May 10, 1995.

So while in $ terms there is no clear bottom support past $329, in yen terms we still have a major downside target! Right now we are holding on just above 1400 yen, but if we break it we might head for 1300........

Since a large amount of Pt is traded in yen, it makes sense to consider the yen technicals as well....I'd like to hear more opinions about yen charts vs. dollar charts & their relative validity/influence on the market.

Good luck to all,


Date: Tue Oct 06 1998 00:00
Greenstone Gold (RJ..............) ID#428218:
Thanks for the reference......

What's a few million ounces between friends ?!

I'm sure that LTCM are still looking for Friends, heaven help them !

As for Friends, ANOTHER has them too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oche aye the nooooooooooooo..............


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