KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

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Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:58
HighRise (Allen - GE ) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

We have a client/ friend who today I heard was talking to us about how he sold all of his market investments last week during the one pop up in the market, his financial advisor had tried to get him to sell in June. This would mean that he probably lost all gains for the year, I don’t know?

The significance of this is, that this indevidual is very successful, he owns a couple of radio stations and is involved in the Local NBC TV station, parent co. GE. He said that GE came out with their budget allowcations for the next year and that they were way down for the 4th Qtr. and maybe beyond.

The media, ( TV, Radio, Newspapers, etc. ) are a bell weather on the economy. They have advanced knowlege and feed back on advertising dollars being spent and to be spent by corp. america.

Please remember this indevidual works and invest in one of the strongest economies in the world. He further mentioned that he had put plans to build a new home on hold. I have now had 4 clients mention the markets and the uncertainty of the future.

By the way do you or others, know who th largest stock holders of GE are? There financial reports are are controled by ancient US SEC law that allows them to keep certain info private.

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:52
NightWriter (@Shek et al) ID#390415:
Copyright © 1998 NightWriter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My friends on the right have been telling me for five years about the huge mountain of dirt on Hill and Bilary. Relative to their claims, the Starr report is a molehill. No murders, no Whitewater, no FBI files, no Travelgate, no lesbians servicing Mrs. Clinton, no 100's of women coming to the White House for Mr. Clinton, no massive theft of funds, no helicopter attacks on civilians. Just a grand total of one cover-up and one sick relationship that got Mr. Clinton a total of three orgasms.


So where is this mountain of dirt that many have been telling me about for five years?


Is Judge Starr covering it up because he, too, is involved in the conspiracy to protect Clinton?
Was Judge Starr too incompetent to find the truth?
Was Judge Starr prevented from finding the truth by relentless stonewalling, murders, destruction of evidence, and witness tampering?


The only other explanation is this: There is no mountain of dirt, and a lot of conservatives owe the President and his wife an apology for having devoted so much of their time in the last five years to circulating charges that they now cannot substantiate


Oddly enough, the Starr report, reflecting $40 million spent examining in detail the actions of the President and his wife all the way back as far as 1978, does two things::

Very effectively condemns the President by what it contains

Also condemns many of his accusers by what it does not contain


I owe the President an apology for having given as much credence as I did to the unsubstantiated garbage I heard about him all these years.


Have his accusers no sense of decency?

How can they not feel guilty about this?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:47
Dave (@Oris) ID#261155:
Copyright © 1998 Dave/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think you might be mistaken in what you perceive to be happening or going to happen in Russia.....because today, unlike yesterdays in Russia,
it is the UN and other outside influences, that a leader can bring to bear, that are going to be more the arbiter in the current and future affairs of Russia, unlike the days of old....and unlike the days of old, the world is watching, and will only tolerate so much of a Stalin or other such leader... before intervention is called for, as was in the former satelite couuntries of Russia....and that there will be a real fear of an isolated N Korea style government taking control.... in it's current state of economic collapse, can Russia afford to alienate the breadbasket of the west? Will she, can she set the troops to foraging upon the masses, until the troops are all that is left....? can any government take effective control, without a showing of international support?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:46
Envy (@Allen) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yeah, I think enough people read that Barron's commentary to ensure that GE gets really hammered real soon. The bear is a meanie and he hurts stuff when he gets the scent of blood. The other financials have sure seen a beating lately, no reason to stop with them I guess. I'm not so sure I agreed with all of the reasoning behind what they said in Barron's however because it applies to so many other stocks as well, the P/E ratios I mean. So what GE is trading at remarkable P/E's, check out some of those Nasdaq pigs - that alone hasn't ever caused them to go down, no reason to start using common sense now.
--
Gotta pocket full of quarters and I'm headed for the arcade - I don't have a lot of money but I'm bring'n everything I made. Gotta callous on my finger and my shoulder's hurt'n too - gonna eat'em all up just as soon as they turn blue. Cause I got pac-man fever, pac-man fever. Driving me crazy, driving me crazy. I got pac-man fever, pac-man fever. Going out of my mind, going out of my mind. do dah do do do - do dah do do do

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:39
HighRise (1896) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Sunday September 13, 2:11 pm Eastern Time

IMF Lends Record Amounts of Money.

In response to suggestions from U.S. Republicans, Fischer said the IMF's substantial gold reserves could not be tapped because they provide assurance to members of the organization's financial viability. He also said the IMF could not borrow funds from international financial markets because that would mark a fundamental change the way the fund has operated since its creation 53 years ago.

Congressional Republicans have promoted both the gold reserves and the idea of borrowing from the markets as means of replenishing the IMF's coffers without using U.S. taxpayers' money.

The report was issued in advance of the annual meetings of the IMF and its sister organization, the World Bank, which begin Sept. 30.
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/980913/imf_financ_1.html

As posted by another last night, maybe history is repeating itself. The fight over the Gold standard, Bryan, Mckinley, Rosevelt, Rothschilds, Rockefellars, Labor, Gold, IMF, and the establishment of the Federal Reserve. it pays to study history.
http://iberia.vassar.edu/1896/0820csm.html

The Federal Reserve: Move on past the religious stuff, historically appears to be accurate, ties in with above history.
http://www.khouse.org/fedreser.html

HighRise


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:28
Allen(USA) (MoReGoLd, Realistic) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Pessimism - the tendency to take the most unfavorable view ..

Maybe.

The news on Y2K keeps getting worse all the time .. verifiably bad, not conjecture. The political scandal taking us all away from dealing with this our most serious, life threatening of problems.

The world financial system is imploding as we breath. Oh, its not on the front page. Read the insider's tips from Baron's Online posted below. GE fair value at $33! ( Now $83, that's a 60% decline ) .

I did like the write up about the car victim, etc. That was funny. I know you were aiming my direction as well as others here. As I wrote, I planted my staff in the dirt about Sept 14th and now re assassination, not as a result of analysis or rationalization, but of inspiration .. to be judged by the out play of events as they will unfold. Also freely posited that I may be deluded.

I am troubled regarding the corruption into which we have wandered, and of the coming tide of retribution which will arrive to erase it. It bothers me that people will be deeply hurt and even die. Someone once said, Never ask for justice from God, only ask for mercy. How true.

I hope that you are safe and secure and that you will be spared the great difficulties which are coming upon us all.

'The LORD sits in the heavens commanding this one to arise and that one to subside. Who would ever challenge His perogatives, power or authority? He is unlike all so called 'gods' because His will is never thwarted. In fact He knows and declares the end from the beginning.' ( paraphrase )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:26
AZAU (World Wide Waiting) ID#247273:
No, not the internet,
but the world waits to see where US is headed. IMHO
Very quiet out there. Exhaustion from the past few days of
overload, or a great uncertainty as reflected in Barrons. We will
wait to see the week unfold. Hope we have all placed our bets correctly ( aka, invested wisely ) based on much wisdom offered at this site.

good fortune to all

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:22
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Charts) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select Gold & Precious Metals Charts
5 Years, 30 day and hourly charts at:
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969
Click on Gold Sectors

Select Gold Up 38% in 8 days!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:13
Suspicious (Envy: I think the USG will make sure the pig (market) flys tomorrow. ) ID#287312:
I'm always somewhat SUSPICIOUS of Gov. manipulation.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:02
MoReGoLd (@Eldorado) ID#348129:
Im very aware and prepared financially, but not yet that concerned about food availability. North America is a major exporter of food, and if worst comes to worst, they will stop exporting to feed the locals. What you have to worry about is being able to pay for it.........

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 23:00
mole (rather talk gold, but......) ID#350145:
Copyright © 1998 mole/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
First, this is a partisan war: many conservatives hate liberals, and they have wounded a top one. i have not seen one conservative opinion that isn't 100% attack. thats the truth and we all know it. secondly, clinton to quite a degree is a reflection of the people's real wishes. to be lied to. to anyone thinking of running for public office, the pros NEVER run on the issues, it alienates too many people. the smart politicians run on leadership, experience, integrity, etc and they slip questions on issues. in politics it is best to be well known, but not too well known for any particular position. remember, democratic presidential candidates who ran on issues were continuiously defeated, until clinton. he moved to the center-right, slipped all devisive issues, and won. tony blair of england is said to have taken clintons map to success verbatim, and won.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:59
D.A. (more.law) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
JTF:

The Paula Jones lawsuit was dimissed. The judge concluded that even if everything that Jones alleged was true there would could still be no finding of sexual harassment. The basic gist of the reasoning was that Jones alleged that only one encounter took place. When she said no, she was allowed to leave and there was no subsequent dimunition of her job responsibilities, or impedence to her future promotions. Sexual harassment under the law revolves either around creating a hostile work environment or pressuring a subordinate for sex where there is an implicit or explicit assumption that saying 'no' will cost one something in terms of his or her job. Since neither of these conditions were met the suit was dismissed.

In civil proceedings, if the judge does not approve of the conduct of one of the parties, the judge can apply sanctions. These can be monetary, evidentiary or other, up to and including the verdict in the case. Given that the judge decided that the case was without merit, even if she determined that Clinton should lose because of his answers during deposition, its hard to understand how monetary damages would be awarded when the judge has already ruled that Jones was not damaged. In any event, other than embarrassing WJC ( and he may be beyond the point of further embarrassment in this arena ) there is little else that can happen.

I agree that the court of public opinion is very important. However, we should probably hope that the process and the law is that which is upheld by the congress. If according to the law, WJC has committed impeachable offenses then by all means, he should go. If he has not, then all of us should root for the law to supercede whatever emotional reaction we have towards him and his presidency. A politically and emotionly driven impeachment which conveniently sidesteps the law for the 'greater good', will do far more harm to the U.S. than WJC and his ill considered cavorting.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:59
TYoung (Realistic/RJ...) ID#177105:
I see you are still out there throwing spears...with past performance or hindsight allowing for 100% accuracy. Any chance you will step up to the plate? No, not your style...you know no one can predict the future, or at least time the prediction.

Makes for easy sport. Yes? Love your insightfull posts...NOT. Perhaps a cogent comment...naw, nevermind!

Tom

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:58
Earl (D.A. @22:24:) ID#227238:
I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, the entire process will only add to the moral hazard already existing in the political sphere. Clinton's transgressions will validate and expand the limits of what's doable without threat of legal sanction. And things will devolve even further. ...... Such is the process of decay.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:56
Allen(USA) (SDRer, thanks!) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for sharing all your research and insights as you have braved the walls of info-glut to gather the straight scoop on the role of gold in international finance. A very interesting story which, I'm sure, will yeild a much different situation and logic than is used today.

At 35 SDR's to the troy ounce and 21.4 billion total SDR's issued this means they have a gold capitalization of 611.43 million ounces ( IMF ) . Is that possible? Or is this part of the 'gold paper' scheme? If these SDR's are indeed physical gold then the IMF should be in possession of 19,015 metric tonnes of gold.

I find that the circuitous, meandering, tangled mass of this mess called the international financial system is to much for me to think about. I tend to think in simple terms and from point A to point B. Your work has shed some light for me, but its hard to stitch it all together. Maybe someday. But this is just me, I know.

Anyway, thanks. Hope all is well for you and yours.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:56
Goldteck (For stock market investors, it's a high-speed world) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 13, 1998
For stock market investors, it's a high-speed world
NEW YORK ( AP ) -- If the stock market has left you feeling dizzy these days, the biggest problem may not be volatility, but velocity.
 While triple-digit point swings in the Dow Jones industrial average make headlines, many investors know that what really counts, the percentage changes, haven't been quite so outlandish lately.
 In the current era, the Crash of 1987, the bear market of 1990, and selloffs like the big drop last October and the summer slide of 1998 all have produced declines of between 15 per cent and 36 per cent on Wall Street's key market.
 In Canada, this summer's market swoon has left share prices 26 per cent below their late-April highs.
 None of those slides approaches the damage inflicted in the Great Crash of 1929 through 1932, when losses ranged up to 90 per cent, or the bear market of 1973-74, when indexes fell 45 per cent or more.
 By many statistical measures, the stock market in the 1990s has been no more volatile than it was in the past, measuring from top to bottom of each move up or down.
 What is different now is the amount of time it takes for investors to sense changes in economic and financial conditions and to reprice the stock market accordingly. In an era of instant communications and automated markets, reaction times keep getting shorter and shorter.
 The notorious declines in the early '30s and the '70s took two to three years to run their course, and subsequent recoveries were also years in the making.
 By contrast, the 1987 drop began in August and was over by early December, and the 1990 decline took less than 90 days. Last fall's selloff was even shorter.
 That's appropriate, a cynic might say, for an age when so many people seem caught up in a mindless rush. But the stock market's modern behavior isn't really mindless. Its lightning-fast reflexes can be seen in important ways as a positive development for investors.
 Beyond any debate over good or bad, there's no going back to the slow old days. So it makes sense to accept the new speed as a fact of financial life, and adjust for it in all your investment decision-making.
 A generation or two ago, information of importance to investors tended to ripple slowly outward from the source. Professionals and other smart money types got it first, well before it made its way through retail channels to the public.
 Today, innovations like the Internet bridge much, if not all, of this gap. Which setup strikes you as fairer to all concerned?
 Perhaps the image troubles you of fund managers rushing to dump or buy stocks the minute news breaks. The picture leaves little room for sober deliberation, time to reflect on the long-term implications of the latest announcement.
 But today's fund managers compete among each other more intensely than ever, in part because so much information about them and their performance is so widely and so rapidly disseminated.
 They need to do more homework, more correct analysis, than ever. They just have to do it faster. In many cases, they must consider all the possibilities before news breaks, rather than after.
 Besides, if staid, slow-moving investment committees possessed any reliable formula for consistently good results, bank trust departments would never have lost as much competitive ground to modern mutual funds as they have in the last 25 years.
 From many individual investors' point of view, there is no need at all to get caught up in the high-speed whirl of the modern markets. Sure, if you are going to put all your money in a single stock or concentrated mutual fund, you had better watch that investment like a hawk.
 But if you diversify and don't try to play a trading game, you may well be quite happy leaving the frantic activity to the professionals and concentrating on what analysts call slow ideas, rather than worrying about quarterly earnings estimates or the next move by the Federal Reserve.
 Example of a slow idea: It has taken investors 15 years to grasp the simple, but powerful, notion that the battle against inflation was succeeding.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:51
MoReGoLd (@LTCB Bank on the brink ---- shares next to worthless..........) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sunday September 13, 10:38 pm Eastern Time

Nikkei pares gains by midday amid LTCB sell-off

TOKYO, Sept 14 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo shares fell from morning highs but posted gains by midday on Monday as a sharp sell-off of shares in the Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan Ltd depressed already bearish sentiment, traders said.

LTCB fell to a record low of 19 yen per share after media reports that the bank may be deemed insolvent.

A local newspaper also reported the ruling Liberal Democratic Party might apply proposed rules that would force the bank to write off bad loans with its own capital.

The key Nikkei average rose 30.12 points or 0.22 percent to 13,947.10. December Nikkei futures rose 180 points to 13,900.

Shareholder funds would be used to compensate for the bad losses caused by bad loans under the possible LDP plan, said Hideaki Akimoto, general manager of the investment research department of Daiwa Institute of Research.

``That's part of the reason that the market's gains proved to be short-lived despite the rally in New York shares on Friday,'' he said.

The market opened firmer amid relief that New York shares shook off the publication of a report by independent counsel Kenneth Starr on his investigation of President Bill Clinton seen as threatening his administration, traders said.

``Problems in LTCB have fuelled fears as to which bank is next,'' Akimoto said.

LTCB shares were off 12 at 37 by midday after falling to a record low of 19 yen at one stage.

Traders said Tokyo shares are likely to slip again if New York shares fall overnight and amid recognition that the outlook for corporate Japan remains gloomy.

``The current slump in Tokyo share prices is likely to be prolonged,'' said Kenji Karikomi, deputy general manager at Daiwa Securities.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:48
Realistic (Important week ahead?) ID#410194:
Copyright © 1998 Realistic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A couple of weeks ago and beyond, it has mentionned several times that September 14th and/or the week of September 14th will be very important as some scary things will happen thus creating panick, etc...

So let's watch this together eh?

Date: Mon Aug 24 1998 16:37
Allen ( USA ) ( SDRer@theRap ) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen ( USA ) /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Rules are for keeping people you don't want in, out. They are for using against your enemies. They are for show, to show how important or secure one is.

The only game in town, now, is the debt instrument of choice, the USD. Certainly these people ride a multi-headed beast. But can they continue to ride without being thrown down and eaten alive. I doubt it. Things have just gotten to out of control. No one is in control .. a true white knuckle affair, the which you can only see is their rattling tonsiles, jowles and teeth as they scream on the way down...... !!!

I have it on good authority that the panics will begin September 14th ( or that week ) . Till then we wait.

Date: Fri Sep 11 1998 00:43
Envy ( September 14th Crash ) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The market will crash on September 14th. I've done some research and have discovered disturbing evidence for the catastrophe. It all starts back in 1899 with a chap by the name of Henry Bliss. He was visiting New York City and was killed by a cabbie going 18mph, the first person ever to die in an automobile accident. Exactly six years later to the day, the R.A.C. Tourist Trophy was first run on the Isle of Man, the earliest auto race still being run today - numerous people have been killed in the race over the past century. Do you see it ? 66 years after Henry Bliss died, the television comedy My Mother The Car made it's debute on NBC. True, it was the worst show to ever hit television, but the important thing is that the theme of the show was that a mother was reincarnated as a 1928 Porter. Then in 1980 on the very same day, Weird Al Yankovic recorded Another One Rides The Bus. Weird Al, he looks like Howard Stern. Stern is in New York City, see how it's all coming together ? The restless spirit of Henry Bliss is roaming the earth, causing carnage and mayhem on the day of his death. You don't believe ? He's taken lives in auto races started on the day of his death, tried to communicate his anguish to us through television, and even taken to talking dirty on the radio, trying to warn us of his intentions. Well, I have heard his call, and I am bringing it all into focus for you all. The spirit of Henry Bliss plans to crash this stock market on the day of his death, exactly 99 years later. The bus used in the Another One Rides The Bus video is a GM product, as were the vehicles that killed Henry Bliss and the 1928 Porter used in the television show. Oh wait, the Porter wasn't GM, nevermind that. I've checked the high on General Motor's stock, and it was at 76 11/16ths earlier this year. If you take 76 and multiply it by 11 and 16 you get 13,376 then subtract 1998 from that and you get 11,378 which is, hmmm, wait a minute. Nevermind, the market might not be crashing on Monday, I need to study this some more. Maybe the number of workers that were on strike at GM figures into it somehow. I'll get back to you guys, this is serious stuff.





Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:47
aurophile (@D.A.) ID#201109:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As you say, so far the market is relieved that Starr delivered only on the sexual matters. Many feel that Starr's firm, Kirkland & Ellis ( as detailed by Shek ) , got Starr in there in the first place to limit the damages or hold them back until and unless needed. The problem is that as many, including Reason magazine, have long since concluded, Clinton does not know a good deal when he sees one and simply cannot make a decision.

It may be preferable to the mass to leave him in there, hopefully with a reduced security clearance. There are many advantages to this approach, psychological and political. Except for the belief of the electorate with regard to the economy, Clinton has really been a totally do-nothing president anyway.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:46
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
MoReGoLd -- If you ain't paranoid, you just ain't been payin' attention! Perhaps you need to spend some 'vacation' time in S.E. Asia or Russia.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:43
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Puetz -- Gold and silver certainly are the only way to maintain value. I think that in this current scenario that is unfolding that one MUST have a good horde of food stuffs about, not neglecting the other needful daily use items. It won't mean much to have a few pounds of metal, guns and ammo on hand if you have to 'come down the hill' 'cause you don't have food.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:42
Realistic (@Puetz (Stock market crash update)) ID#410194:
Copyright © 1998 Realistic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Puetz,

Please update us on the following:

1 ) On the stock market crash that you said started in New Zealand last Sunday?

2 ) On the lunar-eclipse that was supposed to create a 1000 points drop in the Dow last week?

3 ) On the 2500-3500 points drop in the Dow this coming week.

Thank you!

Date: Sun Sep 06 1998 18:25
Puetz ( New Zealand and Gold ) ID#222167:
Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Lurker 777: Now that the lunar-eclipse has passed, you are
already seeing the changed psychological effects in New
Zealand. The post-eclipse crash has started in far away
New Zealand.

Puetz ( STOCK MARKET CRASH -- UPDATE ) ID#222167:
Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The lunar-eclipse has come and gone early this morning.
Next week, I believe the DJIA could fall 1000 points.
The week after ( week ending Sept. 18 ) the DJIA could fall
2500 to 3500 points.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:42
MoReGoLd () ID#348129:
Allen, you sound pretty pesimistic.......

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:41
Envy (Cracking Wall Street) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
They were told: Do not say anything about performance -- anything! They won't say how much money they trade, or exactly where. ( Farmer asked me to let him vet these closing paragraphs because if I inadvertently tell you something I shouldn't, it could blow our contract with the Swiss Bank Corporation. You know the Swiss -- they are secretive to the point of paranoia. ) Indeed, at his request, I removed the hints of what kind of markets they track that slipped out during his conversations with me. He would say, though, that the studies they have done prove by rigorous scientific standards that financial markets can in fact be beaten. We really have found statistically significant patterns in financial data. There are pockets of predictability. We have learned a lot, and I would love to be able to describe it all to the world, to write a technical book laying out the knowledge we have accumulated on how to extract the weak signals that exist in financial markets and trade on them -- a kind of Theory of Financial Prediction. Maybe call it How to Beat the Market. But given the quantity of money involved, I'm sure our partners will never let us do that, and I have just enough belief in efficient markets myself that I probably agree with them.

http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/ai/dynamics/tutorial/Documents/CrackingWallStreet.html

Looks like something straight out of a William Gibson novel.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:33
Puetz (Bonds and safety) ID#226307:
Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
AZAU -- The Fed may lower short-term rates, but that doesn't necessarily
mean that long-term rates will follow. During the Depression, the Fed
lowered short-term rates to 1/2 of 1% -- just like that BOJ is now doing.
But that didn't stop Treasury Bonds from dropping in value from 1929
until 1932. In 1932, Treasury Bond yields had risen to about 4 1/2 %
in spite of ultra-cheap short rates.

Also in 1932, we had a strong and solvent US treasury. This time we
don't. A depression and a liquidity squeeze can cause ( and usually
does cause ) long-term interest rates to rise -- in spite of massive
deflation.

Look for the same thing to happen this time around. You're right,
Treasury Bonds are no safe haven. Gold and silver are the only
safe havens.

Regards,

Steve Puetz


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:33
Allen(USA) (All) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

1 ) Tomorrow will be interesting.

2 ) WJC will be assassinated.

~~~~~~~~~

Please note the direction of the herd as it begins to stampede. Look at what they are not looking at, and prepare as best you can before they turn in that direction also. I assume that most people here are out of stox, have high cash positions.

The Mormon's are starting to prepare. So forget going through the freeze dried route now. A simple recipe: 40% corn, 30% wheat ( oats for those alergic to wheat ) , 30% beans ( 1# per day per person ) . Grind. Oil/sugar/yeast. Use this flour for a protien balanced bread. Vitamins will last a long time if you keep them cool. Tins of meat/fish and veggies. Water ( and filter ) . A 20# propane cylinder with hook up for camp stove/gas range ( keep the cylinder out doors at all times ) . 2 deep cycle golf cart batteries and a modest 12 volt solar panel. A 1500 watt inverter from DAMARK ( $350 ) . A good getaway car/wagon and a place to go to if things look badder.

For just about $1000 you can have a basic insurance policy. That will last you 3 to 5 years in storage. With a little shopping around and economizing, much less money then that.

~~~~~~

Best wishes to all of you here for your future. May God grant you mercy and grace, peace and healing of the soul. We will all need it.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:30
JTF (Are the legal references separate?) ID#254321:
D.A.: I agree with you that Congress will be unable to impeach WJC -- right now. But now that Paula Jones has a case, and Susan Webber Wright will almost certainly release what she has on the web in a few weeks, this stuff will smoulder.
None of the Democratic candidates interviewed want him to campaign for him.
My guess is that the court of public opinion will put him into the OJ Simpson type of situation. Not guilty in the court of law, but 'guilty' in the eyes of the public.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:29
Gollum (@Envy ) ID#430275:
The market had been looking a lot more buoyant after the release of the Starr report. Now, the Globex is mixed at best, bonds are mixed, metals are down, and Dollar is up.

So...no clear call yet. Will have to wait on the overnight markets and see how it looks in the morning.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:28
EJ (Sure is quiet here tonight) ID#45173:
Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

Guess I'll hit the hay too. No guesses yet on the stock market tomorrow following Friday's shortcovering rally. Maybe it'll putter along like Asia tonight, waiting for some new news to give it direction.

Remember when a normal day in Asian markets meant sub 1% index fluctutions? It's back to the future tonight:

http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

G'Nite.
-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:26
Fred (Guilty of Being Bearish) ID#341234:
-
Do you ever get the feeling people think you should feel guilty for being a bear? I posted this on Prudent Bear's site and thought it may be of interest here:

Our concern is not going to do the current group of stock market investors any good. They have been brain washed into thinking they cannot lose, and their greed has taken over. If this market does collapse, it will not be my fault for bailing out. I bailed out earlier this year while the market was still rising because I was satisfied with my return over the last 8 years, and I was willing to admit that there could be some serious problems developing. If anyone is to blame, try blaming Abby Cohen, who has played off people's greed and suckered them into staying in for the long term.

That said, it is unfortunate that some good people could be hurt. However, I wonder how many good people are left. There are so many people that have no morals, they are willing to put up with a President who lies, breaks the law, and sexually harasses women. All they care about is that the economy is good. The next time I have sex in the office or sexually harass someone, let’s see how many people are willing to forgive me because I am “doing a good job.”

By the way, I could be completely wrong, and the market may only go up from here. Still, I will stick with Prudent Bear until I see some changes in the market fundamentals.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:25
Puetz (DE-LEVERAGING) ID#226307:
Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EJ: Based on current over-night trading, it looks like the DJIA will
open 100 points higher, and gold will open $2 lower. What I'm
talking, though, are major trends -- not short-term swings.

If the DJIA rallies 1500 points, and gold declines by $25, and Treasury
Bonds decline by 6 full points, then we could probably assume the
deleveraging is complete.

On the DJIA, 200 point intra-day swings are now the norm. A major
reversal will indicate the liquidation is complete. Say if the DJIA falls
to 3000, then rallies to 4500 -- then I would expect the deleveraging
is complete.

For the time-being, it looks like stocks will continue to decline, and
gold will continue to rally.

Regards,

Steve Puetz


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:24
D.A. (listen.to.the.market--no.impeachment) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All:

The late afternoon rally in the Dow pretty much confirms that WJC is not going down. The House of Reps may ( probably worst case outcome for WJC ) draw up articles of impeachment, but there is little likelihood that the Senate will get the necessary 2/3's vote to get him out.

The easy thing for the press and the politicians to focus upon has been the obvious. Each tries to be morally upright by condemning the acts of the President and not so subtley raising themselves as paragons of virtue. This is why the press and the politicians have been much more vocal in calling for resignation or impeachment, than the average citizen.

When it gets down to brass tacks, it seems pretty clear that there is not nearly enough on which to hang WJC although many will be deeply disappointed that this is so. Although the process of impeachment has an enormous political overtone, ultimately it is still a legal one. In this venue there will be a judge ( chief justice of supreme court ) , prosecturs ( judiciary committee of the house ) and the defense lawyers for the President.

As in other judicial proceedings, prosecution witnesses will be cross examined, witnesses for the defense will be called, and charges will have to stand up to legal scrutiny. After reading a good deal of the Starr report and the subsequent rebuttles by the President's attorneys, my own conclusion is that there is no way that impeachment is going to fly.

If impeachment was going to succeed the report would contain legal support for the arguments. There would be references to case law which was similar to the current situation, in which the charges outlined by the prosecutor were upheld. The fact that there was none, is indicative of weakness.

If WJC was an ordinary citizen, there is no way that any prosecutor would ever have taken the case, much less have won it.

WJC is going to be rebuked by the Congress in some way ( censure? ) , and this thing is going to be over sooner rather than later.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:23
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
AZAU -- Regardless what the FED does with rates, you'll see the market sentiment first in the futures. That's probably what you'll want to be watching!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:19
HighRise (Shek(WJC)) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Republican/Democrat

The Arkansas connection is to dangerous, it involves, IMHO, all.

What do you know about the Contra Drugs for Arms deals that ran through Arkansas during the Reagan Bush Administrations, while Clinton was Governor of Arkansas?

The Republican Governor, Rockefeller of Arkansas originally got Clinton out of the draft.

And Democrat Jay Rockefeller of W.VA. was a key sponsor of the Hillary Health Care Bill.

I have stated all along that the real political power does not care what party gets the job done for them, as long as the job gets done.

Just look at where all of these turkeys end up working after they are out of office....even Gorbachev.

There is a much bigger picture we are dealing with, and we at Kitco, dealing with and watching Gold moves should be well aware of what we are dealing with. SDRer post yesterday, linking the IMF to a Gold standard is the final proof we needed - Gold is the standard of the world still.

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:15
AZAU (Puetz) ID#247273:
I assume that collapse of the treasury bonds would cause yields to rise,
correct? But it seems likely that the Fed will do all in its power to
keep interest rates down, especially in the face of the collapse scenario you predict. How do you reconcile this?
Also, collapsing bonds leave few options for safety for investors, especially along with a falling currency ( $ ) .

thanks for your reply.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:14
James (Oris@I defer to your greater knowledge re: Russia. But regardless of whether ) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
or not the old guard Communists have control, the fact is that the people are facing starvation. Little or no funds will be forthcoming from the IMF & on top of that a potato blight has destroyed most of the potato crop. Desperate people do desperate things & IMO a demagogue will gain control ( Lebed? ) . I just can't imagine millions of Russians slowly expiring from starvation, not to mention freezing to death, without an upheaval that will affect the west. No doubt, the people in Europe are in more danger than us, but I think we are entering uncharted waters & chaos will be unleashed on our complacent society.

We may end up facing a Saddam on steroids.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:13
Chicken man (shek.. What the other 19 counts might contain? ) ID#341297:
I think the contents of the remaining 19 counts ( there are suppose to
be a total of 30 counts ) are along the thoughts that you posted.
ASK YOURSELF- why can't the taxpayer know what these counts are?
Could be they are so serious that the world would lose all respect for the USG. Now that could be very bad for the $

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:11
EJ (Steve Puetz ) ID#45173:
If I'm reading things correctly, gold and Treasuries will open down tomorrow and the stock market up. Does that mean the deleveraging is completed?
-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:04
Puetz (symptoms) ID#226307:
Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EJ & Gollum: From your postings earlier today. The symptoms that
deleveraging is taking place is that the markets will continue to go
against the trades that are still leveraged.

In other words, if emerging market debt, junk bonds, and mortgage
securities continue to fall, and gold and Treasury bonds continue to
rally, then that means the financial institutions are still puking out of
their ill-positioned leveraged trades.

I might add that rising Treasury Bonds ( and falling yields ) is inconsistant
for a country will a sharply falling currency. Once the deleveraging
is mostly complete, then look for Treasury Bonds to collapse in
value -- which is more consistant with a country with a deteriorating
financial condition.

Regards,

Steve Puetz

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 22:01
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
If one is an adamant gold bull, these are currently near perfect numbers to be adding on. 294 Dec area should be a decent support area. Then just watch the numbers 'closely'.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 21:45
Shek (WJC) ID#287279:
Copyright © 1998 Shek/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
After seeing Starr's report I am convinced that Clinton will slide.
This is from a recent email newsletter:
The Starr Report presented 5 grounds for impeachment on perjury and
essentially 6 grounds for impeachment on obstruction of justice.
The Starr Report is much more intriguing for what it DOES NOT
contain rather than what it does contain. Media organizations have repeated over and over that Starr is a biased, prosecutor who is out to get the President. In reality, this is an incredibly gigantic lie, because the Starr report is missing all of the serious crimes that President has committed.
For example, we know that:
1. Clinton assisted James McDougal in bilking millions of dollars from
Madison Guaranty;
2. Clinton used the FBI, IRS, INS and Treasury to persecute his political
adversaries;
3. Clinton accepted millions of dollars from the Communist Chinese Gov't,
some of which was within the scope of Starr’s investigation;
The following brief historical facts about the independent
Whitewater prosecution team illustrates a cover-up that has been unreported by most media organizations:
1. Janet Reno initially appointed Whitewater prosecutor, Robert Fiske, a
lawyer for International Paper, the company that sold Clinton and McDougal the Whitewater land in the first place;
2. When Fiske was exposed, he was replaced by Starr who was already on the original Reno short list;
3. Starr then hired more Democrats, like Sam Dash and Mark Tuohey, who had a party for Janet Reno in his house and later corrupted the investigation of Vince Foster's murder;
4. When Miguel Rodriquez, a liberal democrat prosecutor who tried
repeatedly to get the facts, went to Starr to complain that Tuohey was
interfering with the investigation, Starr did nothing and Rodriquez then
resigned the investigation and stated later to the top Foster investigative reporter, Chris Ruddy, that As an ethical person, I don’t believe I could be involved with what they were doing;
5. In the FBI file case, Starr has not even interviewed key witness such as Mack McLarty, White House chief of staff when the FBI file scandal occurred and Terry Good ,director of Records Management. ( We know this from the Judicial Watch lawsuit conducted by the real independent prosecutor., Larry Klayman, who deposed John Huang and exposed Communist Chinese Gov't influence ) .
6. Before the recent Clinton testimony, Starr withdrew his subpoena so that Bill Clinton would be able to find out what the questions were and not be forced to answer them during the testimony;
7. Starr’s office leaked the fact that the impeachment report would only
contain the sex and lies scandal to many news agencies, thus proving that
his office has been conspiring with the media.
In all likelihood, Starr agreed to cover up Clinton crimes because
he too, has taken money from the Communist Gov’t of China. Starr was
retained by Citisteel, a Chinese government owned company, and personally
argued and won their case during the time that Vince Foster’s murder was
covered-up. Starr’s employer, Kirkland and Ellis, contributed 86% of its PAC money during that time in 1993-94 to Democrats and Starr contributed to the PAC. The Communist Chinese Gov’t influence is particularly significant, since it now appears that they financed the entire 1992 Clinton presidential campaign.
If Clinton does not resign and the majority Republican Judiciary Committee does not include evidence in those articles, then we will have proof of collusion between Republican and Democrat parties to cover-up criminal activity and we will have witnessed firsthand, the total corruption of the American political system.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 21:38
Puetz (STOCK MARKET CRASH -- UPDATE) ID#226307:
Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Over the weekend, Barron's added some light on the nature of the
problem facing financial institutions. Hedge-funds, banks, brokerage
houses, and financial institution clones ( Barron's called GE a hedge-
fund dressed in 'drag' ) have piled on similar trades.

What they have done is a form of the 'carry trade'. The bought high
yielding bonds. Those include emerging market debt, junk bonds,
and various mortgage securities. They hedged these purchases by
purchasing Treasury notes and Treasury bonds.

The idea was -- that no matter which direction interest rates move -
they would capture the interest rate spread, thus pocketing a
handsome return. What they didn't factor in was credit risk.

Now , with emerging market debt, junk bonds, and mortgage
securities collapsing in value, these trades are going sour in a
big way. Not only that, but the hedge put on against these trades
( Treasury Bonds ) aren't going down with the other securities.

So all of these institutions are getting a double whammy hurt. As
they liquidate these positions, these junk bonds collapse even
more, and Treasury Bonds soar even higher.

The rally in Treasury Bonds, then, really isn't a flight to quality.
It's being caused by liquidation of devastating hedged positions
where the hedge isn't working.

The panic got so severe the Lehman Brothers was rumored to
be bankrupt last Friday. We'll have to see how it all plays out,
but it looks like only the tip of the iceburg is showing. Massive
amounts of deleveraging still needs to occur. Before it's all
over a number a large and prestigous institutions will be either
bankrupt or essentially brain-dead.

As deleveraging continues this week, stocks will resume there
crash. Look for DJIA 3000 before the end of September.

Regards,

Steve Puetz


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 21:19
Mtn Bear (SE) (Polls (again)) ID#347267:
Course, when K. Willey came on with her story, WJK's ratings went UP!!
Go figure!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 21:14
Mtn Bear (SE) (Polls) ID#347267:
Whatsamatter, don nobody believe the CNN ( Clinton News Network ) ? 'Cordin to them there is no change in any of WJK's approval ratings between August and now!!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 21:04
Envy (US Market) ID#219363:
So what's this pig going to do tomorrow, somebody remind me *grin*

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 21:00
small investor (Little Clues) ID#105143:
Copyright © 1998 small investor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Employment rate is highest since 1973 the last I read. Just came back from a major retail store. When you walk in the store and are greated by the friendly employee, one cannot help but see the help wanted board. This particular major retail chain had 12 openings. Where I live, this is the slowest month of the year and the season has not even started.
The market gives little clues. High employment, rapid growth in M-3 are two I am watching closely. Last week, the Fed came in and added 10 plus billion dollars ( repurchase agreements ) to the system in one day. The Fed is constantly making sure that there is plenty of money to lend. One should focus on the little clues and not get side tracked by the soap opera show going on in Washington. Do not discount these low long term interest rates. Every time the long rates keep dropping, more and more individuals and families refinance their paper notes. Thus adding more money to the system. There is too much money chasing too few workers. The stock market is beginning to discount the inflation into the future profits of many equities. Look at all the strikes. Strikes slow down the growth of the economy and also gives us clues that we are missing balance in our system. Expect alot more strikes, bigger strikes, the worker sets the hours and rules. Keep your focus on the little clues!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:52
Squirrel (Ignorance is Bliss) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I no longer subscribe to any local or regional newspapers and I have unplugged the television - not much of worth the time on it anyway.
I know too much about local and national affairs to feel optimistic.
Heck - I can barely muster middling pessimism - deep dark paranoia is nibbling at the edges of my sanity. Knowing more about local affairs led me in the past into the mistake of trying to do something about them. My business suffered both from time taken away from it and from retribution inflicted upon it by those who disagreed with my positions. At times I realize that even the Internet is absorbing too much time and filling my head with gloom and doom which I can't do anything about except stock my burrow and prepare to crawl in it and pull in the hole behind me.

P.S. to the neo-liberals who figure I'm just a greedy capitalist unwilling to share the fruits of free enterprise - I look forward to one day making minimum wage myself - for 60 hours a week and no time and a half for overtime. Insurance or retirement benefits - not bloody likely!
Such is the life of a greedy capitalist pig.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:48
6pak (Control Central @ Russia & Washington. A Return to the Cold War years EH!) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 13, 1998

Reformers tar new Russian government as communist

MOSCOW ( AP ) -- Two leading advocates of free-market reforms assailed Russia's new government Sunday as a communist revival, but Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov defended his team and insisted it is dedicated to economic reform.

The continuity of the course of reforms will be guaranteed, Primakov said in a television interview, his first since taking office Friday. He said communists in his cabinet would work for the government, not their party.

The top economic official in the new cabinet, Yuri Maslyukov, is a Communist party member and former head of the Soviet Union's central planning agency, and the new head of the Central Bank is a former Soviet State Bank chief whose previous response to economic trouble was to print more money.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Russia-Politics.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:44
Isure (Gandalf) ID#368244:

http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htmhttp:

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:36
Gandalf the White (Isure @20.26) ID#433301:
I am not sure, that you are corect, in that the Yen is getting stronger vs. the US $ ---- less than 130 = $1. now. You are not looking at the quote from the bottom-up like you should.
GW

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:36
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 13, 1998

Bay Street Beat:Ides of October may cause new woes

TORONTO, Sept 13 ( Reuters ) - Move over Ides of March. Some analysts are warning already edgy equity investors to beware the Ides of October.

Ismail is not convinced the gold rally is a 24-karat change in the metal's fortunes.

To be long-term positive on the gold, the bullion London afternoon fix must move above US$315 ( an ounce ) , he said. The London P.M. fix on Friday was US$293.35 an ounce after rallying for several days.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/BAY-STREET-BEATIDES.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:26
Isure (Gold and Yen) ID#368244:

FALLING LIKE A ROCK!

DEC. -1.90

YEN- 1.14

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:26
quion97 (DECEMBER gold down 1.90) ID#230244:
Must be the Democrats.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:25
Beamer (Envy) ID#193163:
Unfortunately, when the stock markets go up gold goes
down - Dec. futures contract now -$1.90 per ounce......

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:20
Squirrel (sorry guys, for the double post) ID#280214:
My caffeine & hypoglycemic inspired fingers got carried away.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:17
Squirrel (Gazebo - to avoid the eggshells, I have no employees) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
They are not worth the risk, expense and headache.
If I hired only middle-aged white guys I'd be drawn & quartered by the very same groups that Clinton encourages to flex their minority muscle.
If I hired a member of said groups and so much as looked at them sideways or made a flippant remark in spate of temper I'd also be drawn and quartered. My business would be their business - to dismember and bleed as they see fit - and then to move on to the next victim.
In addition to the above
the labor pool has little to no work ethic, sense of responsiblity, literacy, numeracy or care about their personal appearance. Yet they, again encouraged by Clinton and his neo-liberal pals, want every higher minimum wages. They are not worth $3.35 per hour - yet they want $5 something and more benefits, time off, etc. etc.
A single sole proprietor I shall remain.
If I can't do it by myself then it won't get done.

P.S. I am a Libertarian. I want government to stay out of my life except for defending this nation. Clinton can't even do that. In fact he is doing his damndest to destroy our national defense and serve us up to our enemies - for twenty pieces of silver. ( oops, not silver but paper ) .

Regarding Gold. I am sad to say that I can't envision ANY global situation bad enough to kick its price up into the mid to high three hundreds. Maybe World War III and the Great Depression combined with Famine, Plagues and a comet strike would do it. But then again we may be too busy with basic survival to worry about non-edible Gold.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:17
Squirrel (Gazebo - to avoid the eggshells, I have no employees) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
They are not worth the risk, expense and headache.
If I hired only middle-aged white guys I'd be drawn & quartered by the very same groups that Clinton encourages to flex their minority muscle.
If I hired a member of said groups and so much as looked at them sideways or made a flippant remark in spate of temper I'd also be drawn and quartered. My business would be their business - to dismember and bleed as they see fit - and then to move on to the next victim.
In addition to the above
the labor pool has little to no work ethic, sense of responsiblity, literacy, numeracy or care about their personal appearance. Yet they, again encouraged by Clinton and his neo-liberal pals, want every higher minimum wages. They are not worth $3.35 per hour - yet they want $5 something and more benefits, time off, etc. etc.
A single sole proprietor I shall remain.
If I can't do it by myself then it won't get done.

P.S. I am a Libertarian. I want government to stay out of my life except for defending this nation. Clinton can't even do that. In fact he is doing his damndest to destroy our national defense and serve us up to our enemies - for twenty pieces of silver. ( oops, not silver but paper ) .

Regarding Gold. I am sad to say that I can't envision ANY global situation bad enough to kick its price up into the mid to high three hundreds. Maybe World War III and the Great Depression combined with Famine, Plagues and a comet strike would do it. But then again we may be too busy with basic survival to worry about non-edible Gold.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:12
Allen(USA) (Aragorn III, you here?) ID#255190:

.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:07
Cowgirl (Campaign strategy) ID#34191:
Look up the quotes that any Dem made in regards to Clarence Thomas, Bob Packwood, and Newt Gingrich. Their double standard won't look good when played side by side for the people to see.

By the way, did we ever find out why Clinton bombed that medicine factory? Was he just mad at Starr and needed a diversion? What about the weapons inspectons and Scott Ritter? These are clear indicators that Clinton is unable to lead.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:05
Envy (Pacific) ID#219363:
Australia 2488.3 +20.0 +0.81%, Japan 14104.10 +187.12 +1.34%, and New Zealand 1721.18 -6.40 -0.37%. Looks like Japan is getting a little bounce off of it's greater than 5 percent loss at the end of last week.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:01
Gazebo (Squirrel...) ID#430212:
Oops, I said that backwards. To bad the focus is on his personal life rather than his ethics while being in office.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:01
oris (Gazebo) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
How would you disciplined the President? Just curios
on your idea regarding this matter...Also, how can he
continue to talk to the American public on the subject of
high moral principles...when everybody knows that he is
kind of a playboy? Also, it is genearally normal for a
gentleman not to talk about women, even hide the truth and
etc., but what about hiding truth under oath? Oath means a
lot in the U.S....it's one of the most serious things of
the U.S. judicial system...and way of life.
Your understanding of the way to resolve these complications
will help me a lot to understand something I still do not
understand about this great country. Thank you.



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:00
John B (Gold Equity Investors ) ID#77133:
Copyright © 1998 John B/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In reference to my position in gold equities, it seems that this Clinton imbroglio may contribute to shaking international investors confidence in the dollar for some time to come. This would seem to be generally positive for the POG and gold equities until this political crisis sorts out. There's an old saying that the trend is your friend and the trend for gold changed for the better about two weeks ago. Is this too simplistic?

In reference to my political position, if Clinton did soon resign we could then immediately focus on identifying the people who may next decide to monitor everybodys' sex habits.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 20:00
Gazebo (Squirrel....) ID#430212:
I totally agree with you on that one. It is sex that sells newspapers, to bad the focus of attention is on President Clinton's ethics rather than his personal life while in office.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:59
Miro (Correction to my Y2K post) ID#347457:
Oops, my statement However, when you combine Y2K with overall downturn in economic cycle, it may not be so great

should read

However, when you combine Y2K with overall downturn in economic cycle, it does not look good


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:58
Speed (Bill Buckler) ID#29048:
I am truly sorry. My intention was to advertise the excellent work you do. Rest assured I won't cut and paste again.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:56
Squirrel (Gazebo - it's all about sex is because sex sells the media) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Even before this latest string of scandals - just listen to the news.
Famines, droughts, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, year2000,
Medical breakthroughs, science discoveries, technological wonders
small wars, potentially large wars, dictators and great leaders
and all the other awesome events effecting humanity around the globe
And what makes it on the news to drown out all the above?
Monicagate.
The media barely scrapes the dust off a one-thousand page book.
They blow this dust into hundreds of hours of talking head analysis.
They may thumb through the book for some bits to fill up the time.
But they do not understand the whole story, the context of it all.
Most of the talking heads can't understand the blurb on the dust jacket.

Humanity could be offered membership in a galactic federation
and all the technology and medical science that goes with it.
Yet that new may be a footnote to the sexual scandal of a celebrity.

The dumbing down has penetrated further than I feared.
Or maybe we have not crawled as far from the swamp as I'd hoped.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:48
oris (James) ID#238422:
If Russian Communists take complete power, you can be sure
that Russia will be quite. Good and bad at the same time.
Commies have their effective ways of controlling things.
You are lucky you do not know how it works...The danger
is in absence of power in such country as Russia...not
in shortage of funds from IMF...


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:47
Gusto Oro (Gazebo...) ID#430260:
They ran Packwood out of town on a rail for pinching a couple of butts and look at this guy--gropes a woman who comes to him asking for a job to help save her marriage and does an intern while diplomats are waiting for him in the Whitehouse garden. Get him out!

I'm a Libertarian. --AG

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:46
Nicodemus (Hello Gazebo sir: Labels are to non-descript , and republican to you seems to ) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
have a negative conotation. Labels seem to lead to name calling as the labels loose there meaning when communicated. Have you any info to offer that indeed there is a right wing or Republican conspiracy theory. If so please continue. Many here are self employed, or regularly employed, and you will find quite a variety of political affiliations. I myself am conservative in many areas but I do not throw my lot in with the Repubs. Many here also do not believe the modern media.
I do not believe a single word that comes out of Mr Clinton. I have followed and read a great deal about the man and find his theroy of someone/ some group out to defame him quite invalid. If one is to maintain image, one must put forth the effort to behave in all things that his accusers may be put to shame. Attcking and making such forcefull accusations as Mr. Clinton does, is a sign of weekness, an obvious play to obfuscate and poor leadership abilities.
Nicodemus
Go Gold. and show the paper mills where to go.....


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:45
Gazebo (Oris....) ID#430212:
Yes, you are correct. Your place of employment is no place to conduct that type of behavior. Yes he should be disiplined, but lose his job?
If any of the other charges of jepordizing our Nations security are proven to be fact. Then by all means.... impeach him.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:44
Miro (@Sharefin on Y2K and my prediction for GOLD for the next couple of weeks) ID#347457:
Copyright © 1998 Miro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sharefin, my views on Y2K impact are unchanged. I am in the middle of spectrum of doom and gloom at the one end, and no problem on the other. Not everybody will be ready, we will have some problems, it will impact the economy, however, I don't dare to predict the severity of this impact. However, when you combine Y2K with overall downturn in economic cycle, it may not be so great. Lately you can see the interesting phenomena, some folks predicting gloom are softening their view ( Yourdon is one of them ) and some it'll be OK folks are turning into more of severe impact camp.

While working on it with multiple clients I can see the progress in Y2K projects. Many of our clients are getting into testing phase, however, some other groups are still in the initial phases of the assessment. Good progress has been made in the area where most organizations are trying to focus on mission critical systems and not attack everything what they run. Testing will not be comprehensive ( running out of time ) , however we may get into point when we will weed out the most serious problems and deal with less serious problems as we go ( using swat, fast response teams in the post year 2000 timeframe )

You can also see a different set of problems showing up. Due to the fact that Y2K projects are run in limited time frame, and these are the most complex projects some organizations have ever undertook, you can see a significant deficiencies in sound engineering practices. E.g., lack of configuration control results in re-introduction of old version of software components into production, where the team has no idea what was fixed and the software will eventually fail.

Unfortunately, there will be minimum end-to-end testing in the food chain ( suppliers - company - clients ) and we will see some of the problems to pop out in the chain.

Second area which lacks attention is contingency planning for failure of components over which we do not have control ( e.g., infrastructure - power, telecom, etc. ) While we can assume that most of that infrastructure will be OK, you will see the failures in some local areas, and due to that fact, interruption of your food chain. E.g., I am spending some time with some agencies with wide distributed operations, where some local phone exchanges are handled by Ma and Pa operations, running outdated equipment, and when you try to talk to them about Y2K, the response is Y2k what?

I am also worried about local governments, they deal with day to day aspects of your life, however, and there is not enough understanding of money to attack the problem.

As far as my prediction for Gold in the next few weeks, BEWARE!! I've just got back from Albuquerque, and there I was connected to Internet so I could monitor the market. However, next week I am leaving for California, speaking on SPG Y2K conference in LA and San Francisco. In San Francisco, I'll be living on the boat, sailing from Sausalito - no access to Internet. After California I am heading for Alaska to work with some Indian tribes up there ( Our client are very diverse, from the US Senate to Indian tribes ;- ) ) . Again, my access to markets will be limited. Based on my previous experiences, that's when sh*t happens and I loose money. Not a good sign for Gold ;- )

BTW, if any of you on the West Coast have interest to attend San Francisco conference, on Sept. 23-25, I have access to two complimentary passes for the conference. You can find agenda on

http://www.spgnet.com/conf/yr2k98/sf

Ed Yourdon, Ed Yardeni, as well as and some other folks ( e.g., little me ;- ) ) will be speaking. If you are interested, shoot me e-mail on medek@mitretek.org ASAP and I'll pass your name to SPG folks.

Take care - Miro


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:44
JTF (President Clinton) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gazebo: President Clinton is one of the most talented presidents we have ever had. Rhodes scholar, etc. Can understand and desribe complex international issues -- heard him talk about the SEAsia situation and he know what was going on. Ronald Reagan would have been discussing something only remotely relevant. Could have been another Kennedy if he wanted to be, and this term would be when most presidents mature, and show statesmanlike conduct.

Unfortunately, he has shown nothing of the kind. We have y2k looming, and not a peep. We have international terrorism, and no well-defined plan -- how about a missle defense system, and an organized antiterrorist plan? How about handling the North Korean crisis before Japan does something rash ( wouldnt' blame them if they got nervous ) .

So, even if you ignore the xxgates, ChinaMissleSatGate probably the most blaring, you regretfully discover that WJC has really done nothing 'except sign alot of papers' as he said by his own admission about a week ago.

Too bad -- what a waste -- for both the country and for him. All he turned out to be is a professional vote getter -- like an actor who turns out to be no more than a close hanger. Haven't even mentioned his character, or indiscriminate sexual habits.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:42
Squirrel (We have a third world wannabe despot in the Whitehouse) ID#280214:
Doubt it?
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dreyer_infonet/guarino.htm
Thank you Highrise!

If you are not scared yet. Then...
http://users.aol.com/beachbt/recitatm.txt

It is truly a wonder that some of us are still here.
I guess we Kitcoites aren't worth the trouble - yet!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:42
kapex (Gazebo; Come on, is it class envy now? Rich mean Republicans out to Polute the earth) ID#275194:
and kill children! Do you believe all that crap the liberal media feeds you. It's ok for Democrats to break the Law so long as you defeat the Evil Republican for office. I guess Democrats care more than Republicans and it's OK to lie repeatedly to the American public. It's not about whether anyone here is a Dem. or Rep., it's about INTEGRITY, HONESTY, CHARACTER AND LEADERSHIP. These are qualities that WJC does NOT posess.
If you can't believe what he says about htis issue, how can you believe anything he says?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:41
James (EJ@The last time that the Russian people suffered terrible deprivations) ID#252150:
they did'nt have nukes. Now that the IMF is virtually broke & we are heading into a depression, chaos will reign inside Russia, & I don't think it can be contained.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:39
Gazebo (Panda....) ID#430212:
Just for thought, should the President ever been asked uder oath about his personal life? I'm done with this discussion, my political affiliation is a minority among this discussion group. It's like trying to combat an army, and I am by no means Rambo If Clinton is impeached because of anything to do with the sex alligations then we all should be walking on egg shells at our place of employment.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:39
Selby (As I said months ago) ID#286230:
Any country that has its moral and ethical values held high by its most successful politician has a problem in its basic structure. Gore maybe the next Pres and he is already encumbered with an overseer. Who is going to get to be 50 years old, a successful politician and able to stand the concerted investigation of a special prosecutor with millions of $$ and a content free agenda for 4 years? Wisdom dictates a Head of State and a President.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:38
oris (Gazebo) ID#238422:
I swear to God, I'm not Republican, you can talk to me...

Tell me it's O.K. for the President to receive
blow job in the White House from somebody who
is not his wife, and I will call you sincere
believer in this President. If you refuse to
answer, then you are not believer but you are
forced to protect the President against your will...

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:37
Bill Buckler (Re: Brief Excerpt from The Privateer) ID#256381:
Speed ( 18:20 ) Never start with the punch line, mate! We put up the whole first page of each issue at the Website. Now you've put up the end bit. How'd you like the stuff in the middle?

I'm not going to get up too high on my horse on this. All I can say is that I really would appreciate a link posted rather than a quote from the newsletter. It is copyright, after all

I make sure I never post a link to The Privateer in my postings. This is what Bart wants and it's his site, so it's what he gets.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:35
tolerant1 (Gazebo, Namaste' and a gulp to ya...I belong to neither political party and I think) ID#373284:
Clintler is a traitor...Mouthica smouthica...look to Mena and China and you have all you need to get rid of this dirtbag Clintler...

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:34
plaintalker (gazebo) ID#217338:
or maby it is gayebo, i hope your employer is listening.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:33
panda (Gazebo) ID#30126:
Copyright © 1998 panda/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here is something for your 'ethical' comment. The Executive branch of the government is responsible for seeing that the LAWS of the nation are upheld. If the allegation that WJC lied under oath is true, then he committed perjury. Perjury is a crime. If the Commander and Chief used his Executive powers to cover his perjury, that is obstruction of justice and abuse of power. Very serious offenses for a Sitting President to commit. Further, if he did attempt to get witnesses to change their testimony to cover this 'sex thing' up, then that is witness tampering. This is another serious offense. For a lawyer, this would lead to disbarment as well as jail time.

Ya, this is about sex like flies cause garbage.......

End of discussion.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:32
Tortfeasor (Gazebo) ID#37463:
Copyright © 1998 Tortfeasor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think the Monica mess is just the tip of the Clinton's iceberg. I'm talking about the Rose Firm missing files mess, the Vince Foster suicide mess, the Whitewater mess, the Hillary commodity futures investment mess, the abuse of presidential power mess and the general inability of Clinton to tell the truth and the unwillingness of the masses to see him for the amoral person who he is. This couple thinks they are above the law and look with contempt on those whose champion they purport to be. Even without Monica and the one or two additional interns who I expect will turn up with Monica type stories this next week, I think he is a man without principles, without core values and a general political sociopath. Granted, these charges haven't all been proved but when there is smoke you at least sniff the air a little. You don't need to wait for a full conflageration before you investigate for fire or smoke damage. As for your suggestion that everyone is doing it; I don't buy that. I have had ample opportunity but my marriage means more to me than an affair with a girl about my oldest daughter's age. I may be old fashioned but I believe in old fashioned values.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:30
Gazebo (Kitco discussion group....) ID#430212:
I can sure tell this is a Repulican discussion group. I should have realized it knowing full well that probably 95% of you are white collar workers and they are known to be Republican affiliated.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:26
Rack (Gazebo-you are wrong!!!!! Anyone can make mistakes but) ID#411163:
you have to be able to trust the President. The worst President we ever had in my opinion was Jimmy Carter. He didn't understand how free markets worked and most of his solutions only made the problems worse.
BUT at no time did do I think he ever lied and always did his best.
Klinton's best efforts are only to please the majority. He stands out for his lack of principle. I would vote for Carter right now. He would be on my side
Never for Klinton-he is only on his own side.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:26
oris (Gazebo) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Little problems with fenmale employees that you might
have has nothing to do with the problem created by
the U.S. President. Even if it's all about sex ( I do
not think so, but lets assume ) , do you really think
that it's O.K. for the U.S.President to use White House
to receive blow job? Can you feel it's kind of strange
behavior of the Father of the Nation? If you feel it's
normal and not a problem, then you can probably use
it as precedent to deal with female employees at your work
place - would it be pretty strong case? - hey, chicks,
if Mr. President is allowed to have Hustler type fun
at work, why not me? Why do you try to protect the guy
who made symbol of the U.S. - White House - look like
a bordel? I always thought it's kind of special place
for the majority of the American people...



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:23
dung beetle (Just Dug Up... Please Help, IMF Almost Broke! (Heh, heh!)...) ID#272234:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_economy/newsid_170000/170524.stm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:22
Envy (@Gollum) ID#219363:
I hope you're right *grin*. I'm holding my put options close. One good bit of news for my own gamble is that though the market rallied of Friday, it wasn't wide spread, the stocks I'm betting against still went down during the rally for the most part.

Re: President, I'm out of the discussion, it's boring me.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:22
panda (Gazebo) ID#30126:
Is it O.K. to steal?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:20
Suspicious (Gazebo: How about the sale of missle guidance technology to China ? ) ID#287312:
Is that not dangerous enough. 250,000,000 Americans should file a class action wreckless endangerment suit against him. Sorry you have been so distracted by Monica the diversion.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:16
James (Envy@Complete moron--Clitton is just another example of someone who has ) ID#252150:
a high IQ, but is sorely lacking in CDF.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:16
Gazebo (Suspicious.....) ID#430212:
In regard to the sexual harassment laws. I guess I never realized that the entire Congress and Senate are comprised of all Democrats, since the President is a Democrat. The things you learn her at Kitco.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:14
EJ (Gollum) ID#45173:
I guess if I were a big player in the stock market right now, I'd want to bid it up as high as possible to get out with maximum profits. Leave the sheeple to absorb the downside on the swan dive.
-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:14
baal (interest rates & gold) ID#261187:
Can gold rally a lot if US rates continue lower? The US long bond sure looks to be headed north for now. If Deflation talk, will gold walk?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:11
Gazebo (Mr. Mick.....) ID#430212:
If it is not about sex, then why is it all I hear about or read about are the sexual dealings Mr. Clinton had with Monica. The focus is on his moral conduct, and now that they have there foot in the door, anything else that they can dig up on him is open game. If and only if you can prove to me he did something wrong to jepordize this Nation or ethically wrong, then I will sway your way and want him out of office. Otherwise, your just looking for excuses to impeach the President, for whatever personal reason that you may have. I know who you did not vote for.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:10
Suspicious (Democrats, Oh Yea, the guys who passed those sexual harrasement laws) ID#287312:
that Gazebo the democrat is bitchin about.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:06
Suspicious (Market next week ?) ID#287312:
The Japanese are taking Clinton's problems seriously. I think they may excelerate their exodus from our market. Watch the Yen / Dollar.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:06
BillinOregon (Envy) ID#262242:
Try this URL for Globax information, I think you will like it.

http://www.mrci.com/qpnight.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:03
Gollum (Today is the Ides of September) ID#43349:
Big market day tomorrow. Perhaps like the leap up the guy on the diving board makes?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:03
Gazebo (Envy) ID#430212:
By the way, I am from the planet Democrat if you must know.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 19:03
Mr. Mick (Gazebo, when are you and other people like you going to wake up?) ID#345321:
This is not about sex. Never has been. This is about committing crimes that make WJC unfit to be president. He has committed a lot of them, and maybe some day John Q. Public will hear about them.
Wonder what the Chinese got for their $250 million contribution to the DNC? Hhhhmmmmmmmmmm?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:57
Gazebo (Envy.....) ID#430212:
Copyright © 1998 Gazebo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Cool down !! I myself almost lost my job once because all I did was talk to a female employee where I worked. She never once said I had bothered her or that she did not like me coming around to socialize with her, but to my dismay, I was slapped with charges of harassment ( not sexual in nature either ) This Country is screwed up when once would almost lose their job because of socializing with a female co-worker. By the way, I found out afterwards she has a history of mood swings and is on prosac. But that didn't matter anyway because they ( the company ) took the matter to the extreme and banished me from going near her even though later she tried to convince the company to drop the alligations.

Think about that, a female in the workplace can jepordize your job if claims harassment.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:57
ERLE (Envy) ID#190411:
You touched the nerve of metalworking.
Machine tools are the basis for all of your hard goods.
I have cash, and bankers call me to solicit loans on machine tools.
I see a smashup coming for the heavy borrowers in the metalcutting trades.
There are machine tools that truly fit the bill for our company, yet in a few months, we might have fewer customers.
Manufactures in the US are slowing at a rapid rate. Short GE.
Blah blah, The currencies are dying.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:56
BillinOregon (Globex) ID#262242:
The S&P 500 is up 2.30 on the Globex. If it continues going up, the markets will open on the upside in the morning.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:48
Envy (@Gazebo) ID#219363:
Okay, I have to comment now. This summer I had some amazing looking interns working for me, and I have some other employees who are fine looking as well. I'm single, some have made advances, etc, etc. But come on, I'd have to be a complete MORON to get involved with anyone who works for me. What planet are you on ? Sorry for ranting, but give me a break already.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:48
Gazebo (Suspicious.....) ID#430212:
Read my 18:44 posting. I say the same thing to you too.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:46
EJ (Gollum: my friend's reaction to the Barrons hedge fund piece) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As you can see, he makes good points.
-EJ

fund in the world. How else do you think GE always manages to report
earnings within a penny of his estimates? The chances of doing that,
like GE has done for the last 15 years, are about as high as Hillary
Clinton turning a grand into $100,000 speculating in cattle futures. We
know these types of phenomena are not found in nature. There is no
question that the guy has had a huge portfolio of unrealized gains in
the hedge fund-GE Capital. He's just trotted them out, quarter by
quarter, in

I wouldn't act on this very flimsy argument.

Might be true, but there are thousands of other legal ways to adjust the
numbers without touching a single derivative. I hear this all the time
when I do the downtown consulting schtick, usually prefixed with a warning
like don't trade on this because you know the consequences. It's not
prepublished information, it's accounting methodology that won't ever make
it public ( hopefully :- )

There's no doubt that every firm like GE Capital uses lots of derivatives
but the possible risk profiles are so incredibly wide, he's being a fool
making claims without knowing what they're holding. What's more, he'd have
to look at their entire balance sheet to have any clue at all. It's one
thing if he has first hand or anecdotal info ( which the article didn't
suggest ) , but otherwise it's just more poo-poo off the Internet.

What's especially stupid about his argument is the point about unrealized
gains. If GE Cap knew their fortune was based on immense unrealized gains
from derivatives ( of course they would know this ) , they would just use
offsetting derivatives to lock in those gains, still completely off the
books. They could then continue to liquidate these as needed with much
less portfolio risk than they have today. I don't think they're too dumb
to realize this, but apparently the author is.

Don't believe stuff just because it's bearish. It's just as bad a trap as
Abby Cohen is stuck in.

-anon

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:45
tolerant1 (Dynamite link to research and learn...) ID#373284:
http://infoserver.etl.vt.edu/coe/COE_courses/edci_5774_spr95/David/monster.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:44
Gazebo (Isure.....) ID#430212:
Well then, it's a shame we all have to fear our jobs because of our morals. Like I said before, I hope that my employer never finds out about that which goes on in my personal life. Think about how many of us would have lost our jobs if everyone was treated the way he has been over this ordeal.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:41
Bully Beef (Boy I sure don't want Mole on my butt. I may not whole heartedly agree with him) ID#259261:
but he makes a profound argument.Seeing all kinds of people all of a sudden making money in gold. Well I'm still hurting till it busts 330.Have a nice day!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:40
Envy (Machine Tool Consumption Falls) ID#219363:
NEW YORK ( AP ) -- Spending on machine tools tumbled nearly 19 percent in July from the previous month, partly because of the General Motors strike, according to a joint study released Sunday by two industry groups. [...] Year-to-date, the two groups estimate, machine tool buying totaled $4.6 billion, down 7.7 percent from the same period a year ago. Analysts consider demand for machine tools a reliable leading indicator of the strength of the manufacturing sector and the overall economy.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1o.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:38
MoReGoLd (@Typical Ho Hum attitude of analysts towards Gold --- Actually Bullish, since few are yet invested) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Bay Street Beat: Ides of October may cause new woes

 TORONTO, Sept 13 ( Reuters ) - Move over Ides of March. Some analysts are warning already edgy equity investors to beware the Ides of October.
  After another volatile week which saw the Toronto equity market, Canada's bellwether, add more than 147 points or 2.6 percent and the Dow Jones Industrial Average in New York rise two percent, investors were beginning to breathe a collective sigh of relief.
  But there may be more stormy seas ahead once the quarter ends on September 30, with its traditional upticks caused by the tinkering of performance-oriented portfolio managers. Next week's triple-witchingoptions and futures expiry will send stocks on both sides of the border into another set of wild gyrations.
  After that triple-witching hour, institutions begin to sort of smarten up a little bit at the quarter-end with the window-dressing at the end of September. And once that's over, come the Ides of October, said Joe Ismail, a technical analyst at Toronto-based Maison Placements Canada Inc. and a long-time bear.
  The dismal set of third-quarter earnings many analysts expect North American companies to produce may be the catalyst for what Ismail calls the third down-leg of the bear market.
  Whatever, quarter earnings -- any reasonable excuse for the guys to neutralize the market on the downside -- they will sell it, he warned.
  My numbers are that the TSE when it breaks 5250, you are going to test 4500, 4600.
  The Toronto Stock Exchange 300 Composite at 5889 is now a around 1933 points or 24.7 percent below its peak. However, it is about 350 points above its end of August closing nadir.
  Toronto's gains last week were dominated by gold and other resource issues which profited from the Clinton-provoked troubles of the U.S. dollar. The mighty currency had been on a seemingly unstoppable run, damaging the prices of all U.S.-dollar denominated commodities.
  Ismail is not convinced the gold rally is a 24-karat change in the metal's fortunes.
  To be long-term positive on the gold, the bullion London afternoon fix must move above US$315 ( an ounce ) , he said. The London P.M. fix on Friday was US$293.35 an ounce after rallying for several days.
  There are still some optimists out there, particularly after the report of independent counsel Kenneth Starr on the sex and perjury scandal threatening the Clinton presidency failed to send the market into a tailspin on Friday.
  I think that the market normally is weak in September and October and we're seeing a lot of that in these markets. Also we're dealing with the Clinton X-factor. I thought that maybe you'd get even more of a downward reaction than what we've had, said Douglas Davis, president of Davis-Rea Investment Counsel.
  I think there's been a bit more resilience here...than I thought we would have in light of the Kenneth Starr details coming out ( Friday ) afternoon.
  Traders said after fearing the worst during the tentative morning session, the market ticked higher as investors concluded the Starr report contained little new information.
  It wasn't a mad rush to buy things. But, God, in a number of cases it looked pretty good, said Irwin Michael, portfolio manager at ABC Funds in Toronto.
  It's a topsy-turvy world. It's like a teeter-totter. One day it's up, the next day it's down. Here we had our big move up today. It's refreshing to see.
  Rick Hutcheon, president and chief investment officer of CentrePost Mutual Funds said the volatility which has reigned for months makes him nervous about the future.
  It's symptomatic of bear market trading -- ( the market ) can't sustain a rally and that really isn't good, he said.
  Davis said the massive downturn in August should be followed by a little relief run for investors. But he cautioned that any pronounced uptick in mutual fund redemptions by safety-seeking investors sick of the churning market could prove the undoing of any recovery.
 

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:35
Envy (Globex) ID#219363:
http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:30
EJ (James) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If any country can deal with hunger and deprivation it's Russia. Perhaps that is their weakness, they are so willing and able to bear hardship.

I subscribe to social theory suggests that social unrest is not a direct result of hardship but of a discontinuity between expectations and reality. That puts the USA at greater risk politically than Russia. The U.S. population has expectations of a high standard of living projected out infinitely into the future. It's our right, goddamit. One does NOT want to be in the group that's held responsible for circumstances that thwart that expectation.

While the great exposure to unemployment in the 1930s was that large segment of the population that depended on commodities-related industries for employment, the exposure this time is the segment of the population engaged in secondary service industries that are dependent on primary technology manufacturing and development that relies on ever-increasing capital spending.
-EJ


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:25
Isure (@ Gazebo) ID#368244:
Many ,many common enlisted men and women have been discharged without honor for affairs. Should the commander and chief be exempt from the same rules of behavior ? Clinton is a liar, and cheat-- If he had one ounce of HONOR he whould resign. I wonder where this world is headed when people can defend this type behavior .


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:23
crossbow (@Studio.R, your 12:29) ID#342397:
I believe Gore's boy was banished from St. Alban's for having something to do with Cannabis Sativa. I would certainly have no idea what that is, but there may be other contributors to this forum who know.

BTW, in a battle of wits Al Gore is surely an unarmed man.

crossbow

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:22
Envy (@EJ) ID#219363:
Agreed: I think you're right, just a bunch of CYA to make sure they don't get caught on the wrong side of a prediction one way or the other. That's what the tone sounds like to me. I'll have to re-read the editorial and see if I see more than I saw the first time around.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:20
Speed (Buckler @ the Privateer) ID#29048:
-
http://www.the-privateer.com/gold.html

a brief excerpt

The Fed’ s Problem:

If the Fed raises U.S. rates, it aggravates the fall in collateral valuations in other nations right around the globe by initiating further falls in the value of other nations’ currencies. If the Fed cuts U.S. rates, as it is now expected to do, and if that action does not re-ignite the U.S. market boom - then foreigners will send no more of their money to the U.S. to participate in the now non-existent boom. If that were the case, then the only consequence of a Fed rate cut would be a fall in the international value of the U.S. Dollar. That would lower the value of the U.S. - and its global Reserve Currency - as collateral. GAME OVER!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:18
Suspicious (Gazebo: You and Slick seem to be birds of a feather.) ID#287312:
Ever think of not having the affair in the first place. It's called self control, honesty, integrety. You know, the things liberals don't understand.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:17
Obsidian (SDRer) ID#237299:
Copyright © 1998 Obsidian/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I've always been totally mystified by the treasury's insistence upon holding book values of $42 and 2/9 for the gold there. Given our politicians incessant greed to find money they could spend upon new appropriations, it didn't make sense. I mean think about it, had the gold been valued at market, the debt ( on the books ) , would dissipate. Humm..

However if I ( as a government ) had my long sights on one day nationalizing it again, it would be ingenious to let the free market forces go out with private capital and do all the back breaking exploration, then one day I could march in and say, gee, that swell boys!-- you've managed to uncover just about all of it...well, thanks a lot, here's your $42 bucks an ounce, have a great day!.

I went over to the US codes to see what I could find. Not much to explain the 42$ amount, but some other curious items.


31 USC 5116
..Gold not in the possession of the Government shall be held in custody for the Government and delivered on the order of the Secretary of the Treasury. The Board of Governors, Federal reserve banks, and Federal reserve agents shall give instructions and take action necessary to ensure that the gold is so held and delivered...

( 3 ) ..The Secretary shall acquire gold for the coins issued under section 5112 ( I ) of this title by purchase of gold mined from natural deposits in the United States, or in a territory or possession of the United States, within one year after the month in which the ore from which it is derived was mined...

What. Do they think it goes stale if it's older than 13 months?
Gotta log off now and go do some shopping.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:11
Selby (Bingo--Average cost per oz) ID#286230:
It is possible to produce gold at below the average cost per oz--I think it is a virtual certainty given we are talking about an average. AS I recall Barrick is bringing a new mine on line that will produce about 720 000 ozs per year at an average cost of $50 or so they say. I'm sure many mines have high grade ore that will allow limited production for under $100 but I'd be surprised to have them mine it as opposed to simply shutting down for a while.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:09
kapex (Latest AOL poll. As you can see, this is a true poll of how Americans feel.) ID#218254:
Copyright © 1998 kapex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Not the crap the liberal media is feeding us. Over 57% think WJC should resign or be impeached.they represent the opinions of AOL members.
Should President Clinton:  Be impeached?

16918

 

25.6%

 Be censured?

3660

 

5.5%

 Resign?

21031

 

31.8%

 Be allowed to serve his term?

24596

 

37.2%

Total votes:

66205

  Given the circumstances, do you think the President can do his job?  Yes

28545

 

43.2%

 No

37599

 

56.8%

Total votes:

66144

  Are you:  Male

35305

 

53.5%

 Female

30641

 

46.5%

Total votes:

65946

  Are you:  a Democrat

18295

 

27.8%

 a Republican

20952

 

31.9%

 Not affiliated with a major party

26451

 

40.3%

Total votes:

65698

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:07
Gazebo (The President Clinton situation...........) ID#430212:
This whole ordeal now is getting way out of hand. To me it's a damn Republican conspirecy against the President. If I was having an affair I sure wouldn't publicly admit it ! Would you? Even the thought of impeachment is ludicrous. He has done nothing worthy to justify impeachment proceedings. He was wrong morally to have an affair, but he did his job in the white house, and that's what counts. I hope I never lose my job should I ever have an affair and my employer finds out about it. Think about that.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:06
TYoung (Buckler's newsletter....) ID#317193:
Mr. Buckler's newsletter is quite profound. His latest issue is another classic document which educates the reader. Well worth the price ( especially with the current exchange rate ) . Econ 1001.

Tom

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 18:00
EJ (Envy) ID#45173:
Sorry about the Envy echo. It didn't show up in the subject field before I posted. Strange.
-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:58
EJ (Envy: Barrons Envy Envy Envy ) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My observation is that Barrons has been very bearish lately but seems to be more circumspect in this past issue, with more of this it might be time to buy but maybe not, watch out ass-covering muddling. Not one mention of ole A. Cohen, though. The world margin call editorial is actually a devastating piece softened by wit and chatty humor. Maybe this is a projection of my own feelings about the coming week, but perhaps the editors are taking a stand back approach because they expect something bad to go down but down want to be accused of being a contributing cause by taking a strong bearish stance. As for expressing bullish sentiment, recall that Barrons still wears the stigma of egging folks into the stock market before its collapse in 1929. Perhaps they think better of it this time.
-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:46
Envy (Analyst: Gas Prices in 'Depression') ID#219363:
LOS ANGELES ( AP ) -- Gasoline prices fell nearly 2 cents per gallon in the past three weeks as competition and the Asian economic crisis contributed to an ongoing plunge, an industry analyst said Sunday. The average price, including all grades and taxes, was just under $1.08 per gallon on Sept. 11, down 1.67 cents from Aug. 21, according to the Lundberg Survey of 10,000 stations nationwide.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1m.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:40
Envy (Impeachment Inquiry Vote Expected) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- The House of Representatives is increasingly likely to vote for a formal impeachment inquiry in the next few weeks, congressional officials said Sunday, a step that could ratchet up the political jeopardy confronting President Clinton. Officials in both political parties, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that if it takes such a step, the House would not necessarily limit its inquiry to Kenneth Starr's review of Clinton's sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky and his attempts to deny it under oath. Instead, these officials said, the House Judiciary Committee might be empowered to range over numerous other issues, from Whitewater to Clinton's involvement in questionable campaign fund-raising in 1996.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne1c.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:36
SDRer (Carl--to seriously address your concern) ID#290172:
Reading much tedious testimony, even THEY do not listen to what they say-- and/or they suffer from both long-term AND short-term memory disabilities. There are contradictions, there are lies, there are
'simple' incompetencies; always there is babel.

So, he 'meant' what he said on that particular day, at that particular time, in that particular place. When he dizzes gold, he'll mean that too… It's called situational logic. {:- ) )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:33
Envy (China, Japan To Hold Economic Talks) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BEIJING ( AP ) -- China was once dubbed the ``sick man of Asia'' when compared with economic dynamos like Japan. Now it is Tokyo that ails, while Beijing's economy surges ahead. Thanks to government controls, China's currency has been cushioned from the volatility that has stricken other Asian financial markets. But Tokyo's economic woes are troubling for China because its island neighbor is its largest trading partner and one of its biggest investors. After months of acrimony between China and Japan over Tokyo's faltering economy, senior Chinese and Japanese officials will hold a daylong meeting Monday in the first attempt to cope with the crisis together.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpin1w.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:27
Envy (IMF Lends Record Amounts Of Money) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- The International Monetary Fund lent record amounts of money in the past year to deal with financial crises that swept Asia and Russia, underscoring the need for Congress to replenish its coffers for future emergencies, a senior fund official said Sunday. Presenting the IMF's annual report, Deputy Director Stanley Fischer said the $26 billion in loans has shrunk reserves to historically low levels, with only $5 billion to $9 billion left to lend from its regular reserve fund.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpfn1i.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:26
Nicodemus (Hello Mole and george: Mole, I did not know that there were two moles here, apologies) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
please, my post to mole was capitalized as a name. Please pardon.
I must concour with you both that group against group is not good. It will surely
lead downward. Unions for years have used thier incredible group power and $$$ to do things multitudes in there group would not do. Union leaders use the supposed desirs of thier group and thier $$$ to buy political power monopolies. When some one in a union speaks up and says they don't want to go along they are treated as outsiders and told they don't understand the bennafit that the group is getting ( stealing ) by a particular action. Instead they could offer floor time to a disenter and LISTEN and consider other views and look for synthesis solutions to real problems. But no they constanly look for ways to turn power toward themselves. It is disgusting. Also to think because anyone has a group that
is supposed to mean that they ought to be listened to or that they now can claim power. Jesus was one man, he changed the course of history for all time by chalenging people to love God and love one another. My church should not be a political force, but a loving one. All through history when the church became a political force it lost it's message of salvation and became like the institutions on earth, with an axe to grind and a king to suck up to. One of the best apolitical things the church ever did was hide innocents during wars. That was love! putting your own life on the line to protect someone you barely know.
The evil age of the crusades was not Christ shinning through these warmongers.
But rather Christ being completely ignored while his name was used as a justification for attrocities. Thow shalt not take the Lord God's name in vain.
They did, It is wrong. I do not want to do the same with the group, demanding power or forcing a way in. Like all I want my views to be heard and understood,
but not by force and derision and outcasting dissenters.
Christ in me is all the power I need for things like self control. I don't need group control. It ocurrs to me also that often when I hear group-speak there is oft. a hint of I/we can't take responsability for ourselves we demand that someone else do it for us. It seems to me if there is indeed power in numbers, one ought to consider that they should find a way to work together to fend for themselves.
When groups of Asian refugees show up here, they pool thier money start businesses, and do well. many are born here and fuss and try to make all miserable. Groups can work great together, but they have to work on the group not everyone else. My church included. I must work on me not everyone else.
Group power in this age is usually nothing more than some pretty smart schmucks
telling a group that they need to take action against someone else. So even worse is manipulated group power for the bennafit of a few.
Nicodemus, sorry for being so long winded.
Go Gold, hang KLinton for everything but Zipper gate, Power group peoplewake up and be self responsible and don't give power to unscrupulous leaders. No bleating pulease!!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:18
ROR (John Disney@Kennedy) ID#412286:
In the 1930-50s if someone had bisexual tendencies and were from a prominent family the thing they might do is overcompensate in the other direction ie have massive sex partners ie get a reputation. Remember this is why Rock Hudson got married in the 1950s. Bobby had alot of kids and both Bobby and Jack had alot of affairs. But why was the lifelong close friend supposedly gay according to Ethel Kennedy's brother. Think in the 1940/50s society and the actions make more sense although nothing can be proven and really doesnt matter now.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:18
ROR (John Disney@Kennedy) ID#412286:
In the 1930-50s if someone had bisexual tendencies and were from a prominent family the thing they might do is overcompensate in the other direction ie have massive sex partners ie get a reputation. Remember this is why Rock Hudson got married in the 1950s. Bobby had alot of kids and both Bobby and Jack had alot of affairs. But why was the lifelong close friend supposedly gay according to Ethel Kennedy's brother. Think in the 1940/50s society and the actions make more sense although nothing can be proven and really doesnt matter now.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:05
Envy (Pacific) ID#219363:
New week starting, the game is once again at hand.

New Zealand opens down a fraction - 1726.60 -0.97 -0.06%

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:03
NightWriter (My non-gold comment of the day on Senator O. Hatch) ID#390415:
Copyright © 1998 NightWriter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Ain't it great to be up almost 40% in two weeks! How about another two weeks of this! Go FDPMX!

Getting it off my chest:

Mr. Clean Sen. O. Hatch went up 30% in my eyes today by his gracious handling of this current murkiness. While WJC's friends feel betrayed, and his compassionate enemies are eager for the kill, Hatch may be, oddly enough, one of the best friends that pathetic jerk has right now.

Hatch's behavior is in stark contrast to the way some in the right-wing, especially some of my dear brethren in the religious right, are handling this. Pharisees Pharisees Pharisees. The people that gave Jesus the most heartburn when He descended into this sewer of Earth. Clean your own closets, you hypocrites! Clinton's perversions may sicken us - my daughter was a 17-year-old intern - but these are not the sins that most anger Him. And His.

Hatch / Keyes in 2000. Go gold.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:03
strat (John Disney) ID#93241:
Bobby Kennedy was queer? This from the same people who bring us rigged polls? Nothing about that here in the states...

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 17:03
ROR (John Disney/@KennedyStuff) ID#412286:
A big Kennedy friend and a life long friend of JFK ( from childhood they traveled together in Europe for 3 mos in 1937 ) who was reserved a place at the White House on weekends when JFK was Prez and after JFK 's death was a protege of some of Ethel Kennedy's boys was a guy named Lem Billings. Rushton Skakel, Ehtel kennedy's brother stated, that this guy was obviously gay and he didnt understand why Ethel let him around the kids. He was never married and passed away in the mid 1980s.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:58
SDRer (TYoung--BRABO!) ID#290172:
'Cause no matter what, that single fact is where fortune waits...
And why folks who use gold as just a unit of account, like BIS, have
LOTS of UNITS at hand! {:- ) )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:55
SDRer (Carl on IMF- Did he really say this?) ) ID#290172:
Difficult isn't it? King Ludwig's popping out of their taxpayer financed castle's and spouting wild wisdoms... When will they be recognized as insane?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:53
TYoung (SDRer...Obsisian...) ID#317193:
Hmmmmmmmm....Gold is real cheap for a currency not tied to any debt.......hmmmmmmm....Let me think long and hard on this for awhile. Yes?

Tom

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:52
James (Squirrel@IMO, the politcal system is so corrupt that it can't be rehabilitated in) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
it's present form. Basically, it's just another fairly short lived empire that is in the process of collapsing. I wish I could find something positive to say because I have children still in their late 20s & early 30s. My generation has had it pretty easy & it seems totally unfair that the younger generations will have to suffer because the people that we put in power have screwed everything up beyond redemption.

To be quite honest, I'm probably unduly pessimistic & maybe ( hopefully ) we will go thru a catharsis & a better class of people will take over the levers of power.

Damn!! I wish I did'nt have such a good grasp of human nature. If I could just stop reading all the depressing news & increase my beer & wine intake a little, maybe I could just kick back & watch the old classical movies, listen to the happy 50s & 60s music & mellow out. There is a lot to be said for the old cliche : ignorance is bliss. Although it can be damned dangerous in this day & age.

How about: living well is the best revenge.

Gonna open one of my micro-brews & a can of smoked oysters & watch the U.S. tennis open.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:37
SDRer (Obsidian-With your usual clarity, you have posited the puzzle de jour!) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Ponder Points-

Note that all unit of account 'stuff' was added to the Europa dB on the same date, 30 Jul 98. Coincidence? Or running up the currency flag? An advert without words: No need for derivative leverage with your friendly Euro!?

Also, the birth of the Euro is a major, albeit carefully programmed, devaluation of the D-mark. It certainly is never viewed in that light, but that is the majesty of government. The sheeple see what they are told is there.

Perhaps part of the debt battle is simply to deflate them all? That would certainly have them ( CBs ) rowing with the current!

Gold out of the hands: the animating policy was just to cultivate and grow investor disinterest in gold as a haven. They could not utilize gold for their purposes if the market of real people was driving it up to $1,000 an ounce as fiat after fiat was flayed into flaccidity. [sorry...it's Sunday, Summertime, and the living is still easy]

Where does that leave the USD? Let's find out…

We solve one thread which serves to unravel four more.

What we now know as fact is gold is a financial asset; gold is a currency; gold doesn't burn; gold is good. {:- ) )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:29
Envy (Problem with Polls) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Is the same problem with a lot of television commercials, and that is that they're rhetorical questions require a yes, no, or undecided answer, and they fail to take into account mu as an answer ( mu = un-ask the question ) . Do you think the President is doing a good job ? X percent say yes, Y percent say no, and Z percent say they're undecided. Well, that's the nature of polling, asking a stupid question and getting a stupid answer. There should be a set of pre-cursor questions to get more to the real answer - 1: Do you speak English and can you understand the questions I'm asking ? 2: If yes, do you know who the President is ? 3: If yes, do you understand what the President's job is ? 4: If yes, do you care if the President is doing a good job ? 5: If yes, do you think the President is doing a good job ? I think if you asked questions like that - you'd get more interesting numbers.

Commercials on television presume answers to stupid rhetorical questions all the time without taking mu into account. You'll want to use Super-white to get your whites the whitiest white. is supposed to elicit a final jeopardy question of Does super-white work better than almost-as-white detergent ?, when in fact the answer is mu - who gives a rat's ass, it's white enough, I'm trying to watch football.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:25
tolerant1 (the boy has no shame what so ever...none...) ID#373284:
http://www.nandotimes.com/newsroom/ntn/voices/091398/voices12_5413.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:16
tolerant1 (the real opinons from around the country...not useless polls...) ID#373284:
http://www.nandotimes.com/newsroom/ntn/politics/091398/politics7_8834.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:14
John Disney (wouldnt it be loverly ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
..
Cyclist .. gold at 330 in mid November ..
oboyoboyoboy .. I love that kind of talk.

Studio R ..
You must admit Hot Springs is a town
of quaint customs ..

To all ..
I think a lot of the polls are rigged.
I think the numbers will start changing.
Then it will start getting interesting.
I think WJC will overplay his hand .. He
cant help it .. he's made that way.. it
will catch up with him.

Scandalous rumour ..
Bobby Kennedy was BIsexual !! Is this
really true .. it was in the sunday paper
here. Is there no end to this stuff

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:12
James (EJ@It boggles my mind that the average American (Canadian too) can remain) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
virtually oblivious to the human suffering that is occuring in Russia, Iraq & many other Countries. I guess that most of the blame can be placed on the media, because, as you said, their sense of priorities is completely screwed up, aside from the outright propaganda that they spew out. Eventually, the Joe 6pks that are not completely brain dead will realize that the disater that is unfolding in Russia has the potential to affect them in very negative ways. By then it will be too late for most of them to take any preventitive action re: MFs & retirement accts & even basic surrival. Can you imagine Russia faced with widespread starvation? There is no doubt in my mind that unless the West helps them with many more billions they will threaten to sell nukes & missiles to Iran & any other terrorist State that has hard currencies. And even as the west, mainly the U.S., is helping them, they will still be doing clandestine deals.

Re: GE. I watched Welch being interviewed on CNBC on Fri. He was no doubt trying to address shareholders concerns in a pre-emtive fashion & made a big deal out of this Sigma bs that is supposed to make GE more productive & profitable than other Cos, even though several Cos such as Motorola have given up on it. I have'nt had much luck shorting the U.S. behemoths, but may take another shot with GE if I'm reasonably sure that the TA is right.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:10
ROR (Low Lease rates ARE bullish) ID#412286:
As they indicate the market is forward sold out. They will increase again when the OTC shorts are suddenly first to cover. If you believe the gold loans which result in forward selling are the cause of gold's problem then the first thing you would see is low lease rates indicating the demand for loans and hence forward selling has been satiated. This is the type of event which would occur at a bear market low. GOGOLD go after the leveraged shorts.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 16:05
Squirrel (elections or no, Y2K or no, a leader or despot will arise) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Whether Gore assumes command after Clinton abandons ship
or we can convince Orin Hatch to assume the reigns
{is Chas correct in his judgement that Orin could do the job?}
SOMEBODY will come out of the charred remains.
We may soon be looking for a VP when Gore steps up.
Or maybe both Gore and Clinton will go at about the same time.
That leaves it to Newt.

Gold won't be worth diddly squat if there is no infrastructure to produce things that Gold could buy. Barter will be with food & ammo. To salvage some value for Gold we must salvage some reasonable part of civilization.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:50
Obsidian (SDRer: ou still out there?) ID#237299:
I just logged on and ran throught last night's posts. Whew! good detective work.

After running some quick calculations, it seems that using current exchange rates, to bring this .88xx gram standard into par with going rates, either the EURO would have to gain value by a factor of 6+ , or the POG would have to be forced back down to about $48. Isn't that close to what it's held at on the books at the treasury?

Do you think that's the plan; get it out of the hand of the sheeple, and the weak governments, slap a book value on it and hold the SDR and the EURO steady?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:48
Envy (Barron's Sentiment) ID#219363:
Just went through and read Barron's for the week and noticed something, I don't know if it's significant. It had a glaring absense of anything to say. Weird. It has the usual bullish slant to it, Is it time to buy this or that, This looks like a value, Have we seen the bottom, etc, but it doesn't have very many recommendations for investors this week, just a lot of Umm, I guess we'll have to wait and see kinda stuff. Interesting.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:47
OLD GOLD (APH) ID#242325:
Wonder if you can give a rechnical opinion of crude oil and the oil service index ( OSX ) . The latter has bounced almost as much as the XAU recently.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:46
aurophile (@APH) ID#201109:
Agree with you pretty much on gold short term. We have five up in both the XAU and GCZ8, into resistance on both, suggesting a pause during which one hopes to see buying come in.



On stocks, not sure I agree. Nasdog 100 is up 15% already, sentiment is incredibly bullish, rates are going down. The bottoming pattern looks o so much like that of October and January. I think we have a large irregular ABC from August 1997 with C itself a three. The Klintone bear market could be over unless Starr has another fleet of trucks.



Cheers!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:45
chas (Squirrel your 14:47) ID#147211:
Orin Hatch is the answer. He can do it!!!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:42
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...) ID#373284:
If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people he should resign. -- William J. Clinton, 1974

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:35
tolerant1 (here is an excellent Y2K link...Namaste') ID#373284:
http://www.y2ksurvival.com/s44p617.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:24
Fred (Top Performers) ID#341234:
Check out the top performing mutual funds for the last 4 weeks. Prudent Bear is #1 out of 6,700 funds. Some gold funds also receive top honors.

http://news.stocksmart.com/mutualfunds.html

PRUDENT BEAR FUND ( BEARX ) +23.9%
GUINNESS FLGHT:MNLD CH R ( GFMCX ) +17.1%
LEXINGTON STRAT INVMENTS ( STIVX ) +15.8%
AMER CENT:AC GL GOLD;INV ( BGEIX ) +14.5%
PIONEER GOLD SHARES;A ( PIGDX ) +13.4%

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:24
OLD GOLD (JEIL) ID#242325:
Those who believed your super bearish outlook and went short are now being forced to cover. Their pain is the bulls gain.

HEIL JEIL

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:16
strat (Speed) ID#93241:
From what I've been able to gather here, everything is lining up for a gold bull. A couple of people ( rhody for one ) have made the point that lease rates for gold need to jump up to 3% ( from less than 1% ) for gold to make the move. It's interesting to note that some mining companies have stopped forward sales in anticipation of higher gold prices. My guess is gold is not going to break $300 for very long without a jump in lease rates. Bear in mind, that is a guess! I don't really know except that gold WILL go up...sooner or later. That's a fact.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:14
OLD GOLD (APH) ID#242325:
Your trading advice is greatly appreciated.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:09
MoReGoLd (@CHECK your neighbours Flower Pots. --- (Even TOP Freemasons keep Gold)) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Police find 150 gold bars hidden in fugitive financier's flowerpots
2.43 p.m. ET ( 1843 GMT ) September 13, 1998

AREZZO, Italy Italian financier and former fugitive Licio Gelli had something of a golden touch when it came to geraniums and begonias: 150 ingots' worth, as it turned out.

Police found the gold bars, valued at more than $1.76 million, buried in huge terra-cotta pots brimming with flowers that decorate the terrace of Gelli's mansion in Tuscany, Italian newspapers reported Sunday.

The reports said at least some of the gold might come from a cache the Italian fascists stole from Yugoslavia during World War II.

The 79-year-old Gelli is one of Italy's more colorful characters. He headed the once-powerful and secretive P2 Masonic Lodge and was a key player in the fraudulent collapse of Italy's largest private bank.

Until P2 was exposed in 1981, Gelli ran a covert, anti-communist network of people in the government, military and, probably, financial circles. The lodge was suspected of plotting to install a right-wing dictatorship in Italy.

Equally spectacular was the 1983 collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, brought down by $1.3 billion in loans made to dummy corporations in Latin America.

Gelli was convicted of complicity in the bank collapse and sentenced to 12 years and eight months in prison. But he slipped away from his mansion in Arezzo, the Villa Wanda, in May shortly after the conviction was upheld.

He was arrested last week on the French Riviera and is now in a hospital in Nice.

Digging into the flowerpots with bare hands Friday night, police unearthed 150 gold ingots weighing 363 pounds and valued at $1.76 million, the reports said.

They said some of the ingots bear stamps from Eastern European countries, and are believed to have been part of 60 tons of gold the Italian fascists stole in 1942 from Yugoslavia; 20 tons of which disappeared. Italian newspapers said that Gelli was one of the people in charge of guarding the gold.

This isn't the first time Gelli's been caught with a stash of gold bars.

In 1983, when Gelli was living as a fugitive in Buenos Aires during the P2 investigation, police found a 10-ingot stash. Another 550 pounds were found stashed in Swiss banks in 1996.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:08
Carl (SDRer on IMF- Did he really say this?) ID#341189:
Their history is an unbroken series of assertions that they could function if they were just given more money. The remarkable thing that popped out at me was the statement concerning not selling gold reserves for the reason that gold is an ultimate reassurance... of value of claims... I don't know how intentional this was. But, isn't it a statement that the IMF considers itself to be on a gold standard? You more than anyone else here can tell us if we should take this seriously.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:08
strat (Squirrel) ID#93241:
Things might get even worse than you think. If Y2K reduces the US to governing by FEMA & military with the rest of the govt shutting down because of computer glitches, what makes you think we'll even have a presidential election in 2000? Americans have always been isolationists of sorts and know little of other countries other than to blame them for our problems when necessary.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 15:01
Speed (Strat) ID#29048:
We've pounded the pols for a weekend, what are your thoughts on gold? I'm encouraged by APH's post this a.m. My stuff portfolio is up 34% since Sept. 1, and I think we're just getting started.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:57
Squirrel (How do we get out of this mess?) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Famine, Disease, Despondency, Desperation, Hopelessness...
James 03:06 renders Clinton’s USA a joke. He/we fiddle while the world burns. National & international affairs are treated like soap operas and championship wrestling. We are lost in the wilderness with no leader to show us the way.

Agreed that Clinton and the whole sorry mess must go so vital issues can be attended to. But, as with any recall effort, we must plan for a suitable replacement. WHO is strong enough, qualified enough, and experienced enough to lead us through this valley of death? Being the meanest SOB will not suffice. Of all possible candidates for the Presidency WHO fills the bill?

This leader must also find exemplary replacements for VP, cabinet heads, judgeships, ambassadors, and other essential members of the leadership team. The selection process begins in 18 months. Can we find and elect a qualified leader who can energize Congress and the Nation and the World to address pressing issues affecting the survival of civilization as we know it? Or will we muddle along with yet another mediocre fiddler who squanders critical time and resources on irrelevant pursuits?

Enough already on how everything is going down the toilet! Can exemplary vital leadership be found? Or do we have no recourse but to retreat with our supplies and loved ones into burrows to survive the coming collapse? Even that course still begs the question of what do we do AFTER it all collapses? From the rubble how do we put it back together. Again WHO will rise to the task. For better or worse, someone will! This person could be a Maggie Thatcher or an Adolph Hitler. Why, pray tell, are we leaving this outcome to chance?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:53
Envy (Perfect) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The market is perfect. Who will have the perfect mix of investments this week ? Hard to say. Someone is sitting out there with a huge number of call options, selected stocks that have been hammered, etc, just praying that the DOW and S+P are going to rally. Someone is sitting out there with a ton of derivative paper against the Yen/Dollar that they picked up cheap, hoping that the trend is going to reverse itself this week. Someone is fully invested in shorting Brazil as the next emerging market to fall off the cliff, holding paper that was picked up for a song during Friday's rally, praying that the rally was a bounce on the way down. Someone is holding BEARX, Gold, guns, etc, thinking this thing is on the express train straight to hell. Someone is fully invested in something they don't understand, that they've just blindly thrown money at because of a tip they heard from a friend. Someone has invested everything in hopes that the Asian crisis is an accounting error, and that Japan will soon publish a press release saying that there isn't a crisis, that the whole thing was a mis-placed decimal point on the GDP. Everyone has a view of this market and sees it from their own perspective, their own set of charts, their own experience - but what will the world markets actually DO this week ? Anybodies guess, but someone will be perfectly in line with what the whole of the world is going to do, and is going to make a crap-load of money from it. Someone else is going to be perfectly wrong, have all the wrong information, at the wrong time, and is going to lose it all. Here's hoping you have a winning hand this week, that your sources of information were good ones, that things move your way. Here's hoping you're riding the locomotive and not standing in front of it.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:37
JTF (Logical) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
cyclist: Those general predictions make sense. Germany will have two reasons to want dollars or gold -- the faltering EURO, and worries about Russia. The EURO launch will hurt Germany the most, because their currency will be supporting all the weaker ones. Depends on how quickly the EURO and Russia go sour.

WJC impeachment proceedings will not begin till after the elections -- probably in 1999 if he is still in office. So -- the uncertainty will weigh down the markets for some time.

Eventually we will have a fairly significant market rally -- near the end of the year would be about right for all the pessimism to fade. Temporarily.

I think gold will not rally unless the commodity price indices, and LT interest rates bottom -- no clear trend quite yet, just a short term upsurge.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:29
jlh (Cyclist) ID#249285:
I agree with your post of a top in nov. for gold. You say down until feb.How far down do you see? In your opinion is this the start of a gold bull or a corrective wave up?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:22
Cyclist (330) ID#26467:
Copyright © 1998 Cyclist/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
FWIW.
Week of Nov 10 turning point,projected gold high 330.
We go down and bottom third week of February for the third leg.
the general market will tank with the goldstocks gaining earning
multiples unseen since 74-75,Dollar going to reach a new
high due to the Russian black hole.German money will seek
the Dollar for safe haven with starving nuclear armed Russians at
their doorstep.Trying times for the Euro and could miscarriage
Clinton will stay on,the congressional elections
will keep him afloat and we will get a year end bearmarket rally,
starting the third week of October.
Back to the mountains see you next month.
Have a good day.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:13
Delphi (2BRO2B, 11:33 - short positions) ID#258142:
From article, you have posted: I think that there is a very big shortage position in the market… I saw 1250 put contracts ( feb 300 ) sold in Amsterdam last Friday. Unusually large transaction for our bourse. May be is it only a part of the picture and same happened in other places as well?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:10
Bingo (Selby, Oris and Miles...thanks for your input) ID#263254:
I now ask how some of these economic forecasters are suggesting that gold will fall down to the $100 range ( not a spike, mind you ) . Are they suggesting that the production cost of gold is under $100 oz? Or are they not paying attention to a fundamental rule of economics.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 14:04
STUDIO.R (@APH.O.....................) ID#119358:
Many thanks for your analysis.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:58
sharefin (Simple accessory) ID#284255:
http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Calendar.htm

Easily downloadable to ones own machine.
Go to file and save as Calendar.htm

Namaste

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:56
SDRer (Carl, ``The system needs a functioning IMF...) ID#290172:
Is this the long-awaited admission that the IMF is a dysfunctional institution? {:- )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:50
Delphi (POG - moving averages) ID#258142:

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:46
Carl (IMF - ..gold reserves...ultimate assurance...value of their claims...) ID#341189:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19980913/ts/imf_1.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:33
George (Mole) ID#433172:
I agree. Group rights, black, hispanic, native, whatever, are regressive and undermine individual rights which forms the cornerstone of our political system. We are and must be a nation of individuals, not an association of tribes.

Political pandering has taken us in that direction, now we have firmly established power groups lookig for more power. What happens when something comes along y2k and destabilizes the system? NAB

Even gold won't help here.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:22
APH (Trading) ID#255226:
Copyright © 1998 APH/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well, last week was a trader's heaven in the SnP's but very exhausting. What's next? I believe we're forming a wave 4 triangle from the July high. This broad trading range may last up to a week before an extended wave 5 down to 900 or lower begins. For tomorrow any early rally's above 1030 in Dec SnP should be sold.
Gold on the weekly chart is right up against resistance. Unlike previous attempts this time gold is being led by gold stocks. My Fidelity Select trading model gave a buy at Tuesdays close for seledt gold, the first one since Jan. After a 1 or 2 day pullback a close above Friday's high in October gold could lead to a $30-50 rally.

Positions - Long Dec Gold from 277, looking to add on

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:16
Gollum (Off to see the world) ID#43349:
Guess I'll go see what's going on somehwere away from keyboards and monitors. Back in the evening. See ya latah.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:12
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Derivatives make one basic assumption ( as well as a lot of others ) . Namely that the system will work.

Some hedges fail when something trades outside of a range that anyone ever thought possible.

Some fail becuase the bank/broker on the hook to make good on the hedge becomes insolvent. That's what turned the '29 setback into the great deprssion. Else it would have been an '87 dip.

Deleverageing. That's when you pay back what you have borrowed. If the market has moved in your favor you are left with a profit. If they have moved a little against you, you take a loss. If they have moved quite a bit against you, you gotta come up with some cash somehow. Like sell whatever you have left that's still profitable...

Rolling thunder.

Derivatives work very well for the sophistcatd investor in a healthy economy.

Globally, politcally, these do not seem to be such healthy times, and I would suspect the various little derivative equations and rules of them are not going to work very well - sophisticated or not.

Kind of like the insurance business, you make a lot of money even in the trailer parks - - until a tornado moves through town.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 13:11
STUDIO.R (@gOllum.........he'll be saviour to some........) ID#119358:
but he will demonized by most. lay da' blame. the poor, poor pickelo, they must be refrigerated ( kept in the cold ) after their jar is opened. salud!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:58
sharefin (Forklift) ID#284255:
Here's the site.
http://www.zdnet.com/vlabs/y2k/testy2k.html



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:55
EJ (Gollum) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My gut says that the next 1000 pt DOW drop will

I have a friend who's a rocket scientist hired by financial services companies to build systems to calculate derivatives risks. He and I have been corresponding on this topic for a couple of months, with me forwarding articles like the one I posted this a.m. and he attempting to explain his take on it, a difficult task since I had a window seat in statistics class. Over the past two weeks his responses have grown more terse and defensive. I suspect that the derivative green slime is not behaving in the natural envirnoment quite as it did in the computer model petri dishes that rocket scientists like my friend have been building.

Question: I hear there's a major effort to deleverage. What might the symptoms and manifestations of this effort be to an outside observer?

-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:43
Gollum (And the sheeple shall say....) ID#43349:
Sad that Clinton's fall from grace comes at time the market is due to crash big time. The sheeple will look back at the prosperity during his reign and the desolation after, and will say What have we done? We have crucified the very one that could have saved us.

Sheeple are like that.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:39
Fred (Y2K Transportation) ID#341234:
-
It looks like many companies are hiding the truth on Y2K progress.  If you were a CEO, would you want your stock holders to know you may be out of business in 15 months?  Abby Cohen would say, things like Russia, Japan, South America, Mexico, and transportation do not matter in our economy; everything will be fine as long as interest rates stay low.
 
http://www.computerworld.com/home/news.nsf/all/9809104y2k
 
The special Senate committee ... sent out surveys to 32 of the nation's largest transportation companies ... 
But only 16 companies responded ... of those that did respond, only a third said that they had completed the first phase of the remediation project, the assessment. 
... prompted Sen. Bob Bennett ( R-Utah ) to warn of significant interruptions in air, train and shipping services due to the millennium bug.
I can only conclude that those who didn't respond are either unaware of the severity of the problem or are embarrassed over their lack of progress
I think it's a little scary that people are not responding.
... just 62% had completed a year 2000 assessment. But 94% said they expect to finish their work on time. The Senate committee, in its report, called that prediction 'overoptimistic given that most of them have not yet completed the process of fully assessing the scope of the Y2K problem.'

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:35
Forklift (Mole @ 10:53 and sharefin) ID#156161:
Mole: No need for apologies. That was a clear and
powerful arguement. One suggestion though, substitute
the word planner ( or planners ) for the word King.

sharefin: Could you please post those urls for
testing PC Y2k compliance that I saw here a couple
of weeks ago. I'm embarassed that they weren't
bookmarked and my search has been futile.

Thank you both.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:29
STUDIO.R (@Dee Cee-ers........) ID#119358:
Does anyone know why Gore's boy was kicked out of St. Alban's School in Washington? just curious.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:25
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43349:
Yes indeed. We're talking global here. Leverage and hedges of various forms, some recognizabe, some not, have grown GLOBALLY lo these many years. The US can be thought of as one of the few remaining profitable investments in a global portfolio of high flying third world holdings that have now gone sour. Yen carry trade, gold carry trade, US treasuries, what have you, will all unwind.

Comes the global margin call, comes the night.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:17
STUDIO.R (@stratOcaster........uh huh.......) ID#119358:
I swear to my God, that, in the realm of brick intelligence, Al Gore is comfortably bringing up the rear. How can Gore be that old and that ignorant? remarkable.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:15
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste' I am not sure we could see...they found Foster in the bushes) ID#373284:
and we would probably be put in jail for life for having trimmed a public bush...

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:10
STUDIO.R (@T#1.....buenas dias........gran amigo.) ID#119358:
Will be able to watch? Can we help out? BOOOOOOOOM!!!!

I have sinned...........not very original...he's got better writers than that. How 'bout?...........I'm under a lot of pressure.......and My Mom used to beat me. or,,, I don't have long to live..........

A gulpO y puffO to YA!!! studio.rockin'

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:10
ERLE (Mole 10:53) ID#190411:
Well put, thanks.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:06
Rob (Bear market and the US gov't bond market) ID#412273:
Copyright © 1998 Rob/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If the President shuts down the US gov't, I suspect that this time intrest payments on the US gov't debt will not be made. The failure to make intrest payments will be done to pressure clinton's attackers to back off.

In this situation, only gold and short postions will come out ahead. The shorts will only keep their money if the proceeds have been moved into something that isn't being defaulted on.

Everyone seems to be worried about Brazil defaulting; what about the US?

\

T-bills won't work in this situation, forget about money funds, they are only commerical paper.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:04
strat (Studio R) ID#93241:
castrated Bill Clinton=Al Gore, yes?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 12:02
STUDIO.R (@MOle, EJ.O, SDRerO and a.j.O.................) ID#119358:
great posts this a.m.! muchas garcias ( cabo spelling ) !

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:59
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste' and a gulp and a puff to ya...I see a third option for Clintler...) ID#373284:
we could give him Vince Foster's gun and leave him in the park...

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:57
Scotty (A true bottom?) ID#290271:
Hi everyone! Well, with the recent upspike in gold ( and I am happy to say I at least got this one right! ) , the big question is have we hit a true bottom? There is some great chart work at

http://www.the-privateer.com/g-bottom/g-bottom.html

After cruising through the charts, go to the Gold Commentary at the bottom of the page. It shows a very good technical anaylsis of where we are and where we are going.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:55
STUDIO.R (@Bill is a sex maniac, he is not mentally well.) ID#119358:
I must concur with LOrd Disney. Clinton should be given a choice: Resign or agree to castration. During the ensuing months of useless dabate, he should be forced to receive near-fatal dosages of estrogen and saltpeter.
According to his lawyers this morning, evidently, in Hot Springs a blow job is akin to a hello and a handshake. News to me. This is very modern I suppose.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:55
sharefin (Bingo) ID#284255:
I was recently 'Pinged' from my email address.
They tried to crash my website and when that didn't work.
They got through to me via my ISP.

It was all for a good cause in the long run though.

Truly nothing is sacred.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:48
sharefin (Auric) ID#284255:
The views better on 5 years
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=GE&d=5y
From $20 to $100 in 4 years.
Talk about pyramiding profits.
Volumes of late seem a bit excessive?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Miro
I hope you don't mind me asking?
But I was wondering where your Year2000 rating stands at the moment?
Which direction it had moved in the last few months?

TIA



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:48
Bingo (JTF...) ID#263254:
Copyright © 1998 Bingo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
One way you can stop intrusion into your computer is via a firewall a.k.a. proxy. You will need a $20 piece of hardware installed which will allow you to eliminate external access. It will also log prospective intruders. Anyone who is running Java is leaving themselves wide-open for this kind of intrusion ( not necessarily from the govies ) .



Also, anonymity is very very difficult. It is partially possible, however even with anonymous email, you can be tracked back to your ISP. In most cases, I would say that unless you are discussing threats to the govies, there is so much information being bandied about on the internet, you are just one of millions with an opinion.




Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:33
2BR02B? (SA gold shares interview) ID#266105:
-





Interview with NICK GOODWIN- 11 September, 1998


AH: Our gold guru Nick Goodwin is on the line. Nick you must be smiling yet again. Another 20% increase in gold shares this week. But is it going to run out of steam next week?

NICK GOODWIN: Well, that's a difficult question. I don't think I could call it that closely. Basically, there is a rising trend in gold shares from the beginning of the year. It bottomed in December last year at about 670, and we've had rising bottoms ever since then, and also rising tops, so it is forming a definitive Bull trend. Obviously the index is quite volatile, as we expected it to be, but I think we are definitely in the rising trend now. The gold price as well has acted very well. I think last time I spoke about it spiking down, and turning around very quickly
and spiking back up. The gold price in dollars will now drive the shares. They will only move on days when the dollar price actually moves. And the levels that we need to get through next - we are now sitting at 293 ollars an ounce, although the price did move up to 296 today - we need to get to 298, then 300, then 310 and then 325.

AH: So until we get through 298 Nick, are you expecting the gold shares will perhaps catch their breath a little?

NICK GOODWIN: Yes, they will just mark time and what you will find, they will run on days when the price is firm and when the price goes quiet or comes off a bit, they will probably come off maybe 50 or 60 points.

AH: Now what about that move in the price today? It looked at one stage like it was going to go through, sail through $300 an ounce when it was over 296.50. What happened there?

NICK GOODWIN: I think that there is a very big shortage position in the market, and speculators don't really want the prices to run away too quickly, because they could be losing too much money. Because, as you
discussed the other night, there's in the order of between 1000 and 4000 tons of gold short, which they borrowed from banks, and this gold has all been converted to jewellery. So I think that there is a lot of manipulation in the market where they are trying to hold the price so they can actually buy in sufficient gold in order not to lose too much money.

AH: Every lunchtime I talk to my colleague Noleen and every lunchtime I've been telling her the way the gold shares have been going up and she has been saying that she has not bought any gold shares yet. Can you
advise her to do so?

NICK GOODWIN: Yes, she still can. I think down the road, probably a year or so, we are looking at the index reaching about 2000. I think today it reached 1100, so we're looking at about 2000 to 2500, so there definitely is potential to still buy, but you know people tend to wait. They tend to want to see that it's happening and then they want to get in, whereas they should actually buy when I actually call the lows, so she really mustn't wait, she must get in now and then she must ride with it. If she starts buying at 1500, really then the upside potential becomes limited.

AH: So if Noleen is listening now and I will tell her on Monday that you said, Noleen, buy gold shares. Nick, you've had a 40% increase since you told us to buy last Monday. Is it time to take any profits whatsoever?

NICK GOODWIN: No, not yet. Basically you must now stay with the shares. The only time you would take profits is if the shares outrun the gold price in dollars substantially. We will inform you if that happens, but that's not the case now, so there is no profit-taking now.

AH: That's the word from our gold guru, Nick Goodwin of Fedsure Asset Management, and my word, has he not served us well.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:32
Tortfeasor (Mole) ID#37463:
Very profound at 10:53.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:29
Goldteck (THREAT OF DEFLATION IS VERY REAL) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
THREAT OF DEFLATION IS VERY REAL

By BETH PISKORA

To understand the economy and the markets these days, you simply must run through the first four letters of the alphabet.

A stands for Asia, which first riled world markets last summer when economic troubles surfaced overseas, causing several Asian countries, including Thailand and Malaysia to devalue their currencies.

B and C stand for Bill Clinton, whose personal troubles have put the American presidency at risk, which makes investors nervous.

D is for deflation, which had shouted its threat several times in the last year, but gained credibility on Friday when the Labor Department said prices paid for raw goods to factories, farmers and other producers suffered their biggest drop in seven months. The Producer Price Index fell 0.4 percent, after falling five other months this year.

I wouldn't characterize it as deflation at this point, said William Dawson, chief investment officer of Federated Investors. But the concern that the economy could turn deflationary is very real.

Although the idea of lower prices may sound good, it can also translate into lower earnings for corporate America, generating lower stock prices, a slowdown in growth, and, if sustained, a recession.

That's why even the Federal Reserve is paying attention. Up until recently, Fed governors, including Chairman Alan Greenspan, dismissed the possibility of deflation, a spiral of falling prices that prompts people to hoard cash rather than invest it.

But Greenspan indicated in a recent speech that the central bank is taking that prospect more seriously.

Economists say the growing threat of deflation is reflected both in bond prices and in the PPI.

The bond market is now characterized by an exceedingly rare inverse yield curve, where long rates fall below the yields for short-term instruments. That's unusual since longer-term investors must usually be compensated for the extra risk they incur during their longer maturities. It is a clear deflationary signal.

But those aren't the only two pieces of evidence. Prices of new passenger cars fell 1.7 percent last month, their biggest drop in nearly eight years. And gas prices recorded their biggest drop in 7 years, falling 8.5 percent.

In the span of a few short weeks, gleeful predictions of Dow 10,000 have been supplanted by dire warnings of Dow 5,000 - and that's without a two-for-one stock split, said Charlie Crane, chief investment officer at Key Asset Management. Now the spotlight is squarely on the crowd that sees the world coming apart at the seams, with global recession and a deadly deflationary spiral just around the corner.

Have investors lost their senses? Absolutely not. In fact, world markets are reacting in a very reasoned manner to economic threats.

It all began in the spring of 1997 when the bond market started behaving in an unusual manner.

I soon became evident that all the money coming into the bond market was coming from overseas, said Dawson. U.S. investors were sticking to the higher returns they could get from stocks. We didn't know it yet, but overseas investors were already starting their flight to quality, and for them that meant U.S. treasuries.

U.S. investors could no maintain their innocence much longer. By the summer of 1987, several Asian economies had crumbled. In order to try to prop themselves back up, they began unloading goods on the world markets at very low prices compared to competitors. These competitors then had to lower their asking prices in order to sell product.

Thus, the first stages of deflation began. The situation simply worsened when Asia's troubles tumbled into Russia and Latin America, where many of the countries are heavily dependent on the exporting of raw commodities.

Commodity prices are near all-time lows, said Dawson. There is an overcapacity and no one is in the position to sop up all these extra goods.

In the business cycle of the 1990s, Americans have been the biggest buyers of the world's goods.

The U.S. consumer has been doing all the heavy lifting for some time, said Dawson. If the U.S. consumer is spooked, which could happen easily if hte stock market keeps going down, that could send us spiraling into recession.

Already, one-third of the world's countries are officially in a recessionary economy.

I don't think the U.S. can act on its own, said Dawson. We're going to need some help and I don't know whether anybody is in a position to help us. http://www.nypost.com/business/5482.htm

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:29
sharefin (Philosopher's Stone/Elixir of Life) ID#284255:
http://www.teleport.com/~boydroid/gold.htm

Interesting view on extraction of PM's


-----EJ
Thanks mate.
Just curious, digging around amongst the cuttings. ( :- ) ) )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:29
Tortfeasor (Suspicious) ID#37463:
Don't be so hard Suspicious; we not only 70% of the world's lawyers but we have 90% of the good ones.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:26
Auric (EJ's 10:05 Is A Must Read) ID#257312:

Them derivatives just keep popping up. http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=ge&d=t

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:25
strat (Speaking of lawyers...) ID#93241:
...a Y2K lawsuit of note has been dismissed as premature.

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,25938,00.html?st.cn.gp.rl.ne

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:22
Suspicious (Strat: The root cause of many of our problems in the U.S. is,) ID#287312:
we have 70% of the world's lawyers.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:14
strat (Speed) ID#93241:
Thanks for bringing me up to speed regarding Waco. I was under the impression that seige began under Bush. I guess Ruby Ridge always bothered me more than Waco. I'm somewhat partisan, too...I have equal contempt for Democrats & Republicans. Lawyers, one & all, abusing power, yes?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 11:01
Miro (@Jims and Tantalus on 403K) ID#347457:
Copyright © 1998 Miro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Jims,

I had been in and out of energy and gold funds. Sure I took some beating at the beginning of this year. I was in cash lately, however after a few solid days I jumped back in. That would be the reason why my gain is only 20% - I intentionally skipped the first few days waiting for a confirmation. Also, we had a down day ( on Wednesday? ) when both sectors dropped about 2-3%.

Tantalus,

403K is pretty much the same as 401K, however, it is designed for not-for-profit companies ( e.g., educational, research, public institutions, etc ) . I work for one of those.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 10:53
Mole (@mole Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:37) ID#34883:
-
mole = You stepped on my handle without the capital M, this didn't bother me. Your posts were on topic and informative, moreso than mine in a pragmatic sense. Was content to leave the difference in our handle alone, to the less discerning, till I had something to post, then they'd
figure it out if they were so inclined. But then you had to go and post something stupid like why do you think women and the african americans have circled the wagons around this man? [re Clinton]... this man has done more for the downtrodden then the last three persidents put together.,

I am forced to respond to this blather.
Clinton is popular with these individuals because he is stealing for them and most are too ignorant or enamored with their romantic, historic conception of monarchies or pragmatic conception of I win when I get to realize that through his deceptive machinations of compassion he is destroying the fabric of this country and placing the final nails in the coffin of individual rights, life, liberty, and property. Show me in your knowledge of history where woman and african americans have done better than in the United States. You can't. Throughout history they have most oft been treated as property, i.e., closer to animals. Emancipation, Womans Sufferage, Equality before the law...yes. Group rights, political privilege, equality of outcome,...these are the salient characteristics of despotism and tyranny in the making.

Group rights, the president viewed as King...pathetic.
That is folly. It seems a paradox that the individuals who have had the most to gain from equality before the law, and private property, ( that includes your person ) , viz, women and african americans, would be so instrumental in its destruction.

This president is no friend of the individual. He attacks the peaceful idea of individual rights everytime he makes a speech. Womans rights, minority rights, homo rights, children rights. The right to an education? The right to medical care? The right to a job? The right to housing? Who is gonna supply these rights? The greedy capitalist entrepreneur exploiters who create jobs? Who is going to save when there is no political right to private property? Talk about incentives? Group rights mean no rights. The right of Kings to dispense with individuals labor and capital as they ( the annointed ones ) see fit means: slave labor and declining capital accumulation. If your in the jungle living hand to mouth the idea of saving to fund long term productive action is not that apparent. Nor is as easily understood when you live in a highly specialized division of labor society. Nevertheless: destroy individual rights: destroy the peaceful cooperation of the division of labor and create despotism, i.e., the idiot's view of a have and have not's conception of a static, zero sum game, universe.


Why did you have to bring your muddled headed, romantic vision of compassion, group rights, conflict, warfare and destruction into this forum with my handle? It takes a Village? No sh*t, it takes cooperation and that means individual rights...not group rights, village rights, village vs village rights, tribe vs tribe, return to the dark ages... All that group rights crappola is bunkem and deception. The Machivillan quote here yesterday was apt...that is Clinton. If You faliciously indoctrinate individuals with rights that no individual can possess without violating the rights of others, eventually you will have people killing each other over some stupid bastardized conception of political rights that never existed in a free and prosperous commonwealth. De-evolution masked in compassion, pathetic.

All: sorry for the diatribe. I was compelled by the handle similarities.

Mole

oh yea: Gold stands in the way of this insidious process :/ )




Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 10:12
TYoung (SDRer...feel free to post before or after coffee...) ID#317193:
We watch and wait. The plan in place. We will see the outcome. Plans sometimes do not turn out as expected. Any U/A for the US$

Thanks, again.

Tom

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 10:05
EJ (A global margin call?) ID#45173:
-
People aren't remotely cognizant of the potential for collateral damage in all of this.

Barron's Online
September 14, 1998
By Kathryn M. Welling


Riddle me this, said the voice on the phone, and we humored him. Why not? His biggest
failing, from a journalist's admittedly narrow perspective, is that he's publicity-shy. Then, too, the
fellow on the other end of the line time and again has proven himself an extraordinarily perceptive
and adept investor, locally and globally, long and short, with funds public and private, ever since
fortuitously reporting for work on Wall Street practically in unison with the late, great bull's early
'Eighties arrival. He's not only refreshingly appreciative of his luck, he doesn't waste time with
idle musings.

His question: What do you get when you merge Long-Term Capital Management with ABB Asea
Brown Boveri?

He had us. Long-Term Capital, of course, is the misnomer of a moniker adopted by a hedge fund
run by an erstwhile Salomon Brothers master of the universe, John Meriwether. The one that last
week owned up to blowing through a couple of billion of its partners' capital -- in August alone.
Asea Brown Boveri is the giant Swiss-Swedish combine with arms in electrical engineering,
infrastructure, industrial equipment, transportation -- just about every heavy-duty line of business
that's turned to dross, in another words, since global markets started submerging with a
vengeance. Not surprisingly, Brown Boveri has taken almost as big a hit to its market cap, off
about 40% from its June high.

A global margin call? we ventured, grasping at straws.

Want a clue? our friend shot back. Some people say, 'It brings good things to life.'

Barely waiting for us to register astonishment, he dug in his claws. That enormous sucking sound
you hear is global liquidity disappearing. Which means that John Meriwether's company -- and
who knows how many other financial intermediaries -- are essentially bust. And with Asia, Latin
America -- who wants infrastructure businesses? So explain, please, how General Electric, which
gets 50% of its earnings from GE Capital -- a hedge fund in drag -- still has a $250 billion market
cap and is selling at roughly 30 times earnings, seven times book and three times sales.

Come on, 'a hedge fund in drag'? we demurred.

Absolutely. I know, like the ad for his book says, 'He is arguably the most effective and most
admired CEO in America today.' But what Jack Welch has built, basically, is the biggest hedge
fund in the world. How else do you think GE always manages to report earnings within a penny of
his estimates? The chances of doing that, like GE has done for the last 15 years, are about as high
as Hillary Clinton turning a grand into $100,000 speculating in cattle futures. We know these types
of phenomena are not found in nature. There is no question that the guy has had a huge portfolio of
unrealized gains in the hedge fund-GE Capital. He's just trotted them out, quarter by quarter, in
sufficient quantity to manufacture the expected quantity of earnings.

So now there's something wrong with taking profits, we taunted.

Only that it's a bull-market phenomenon if there ever was one. Once the capital-gains portfolio
starts running a little bit dry, Welch has a problem -- and GE can't sustain a 30 multiple. Look
what's happened to all the other financials -- everything from Lehman and Bankers Trust to
Citicorp and Merrill. They're all off 40%-50%; they're 8 to 10 multiple businesses in this
environment -- maybe closer to four times, for the 'purer' hedge funds.

Well, financial engineering is half of Welch's business -- be generous, say it's worth 10 times.
Give the other half of the business a 14-15 multiple of expected earnings, like Asea Brown
Boveri's. Which means, at best, GE should be trading at 12 times the consensus estimate of
$2.80. It's a $33 stock -- and that's not even allowing for a Meriwether-type debacle or an Applied
Materials-like backlog shrink!

Ignoring our gasps, he plunged on to sketch some broader implications. So tell me, why are all
the active portfolio managers tearing their hair out? Because there are about 20 stocks in the S&P
that are still up 50%, and virtually everything else is down. If you're an active manager, you live in
fear now. You wake up in a cold sweat at night if you don't own GE. You can't make an
intellectual case for GE. But it goes up. Because it is in the index and is supported by the mindless
buying of the index funds. No wonder there are so many closet indexers. Look at Fidelity. They're
all over the latest issue of Money, essentially admitting that they've seen the error of their ways and
become closet indexers. At just the wrong time. Because guess what. Just like the index funds
mindlessly bought on the way up, they're going to mindlessly sell on the way down. People aren't
remotely cognizant of the potential for collateral damage in all of this.

That's where he abruptly cut off our conversation to okay a trade. Short, in case you're
wondering. U.S. stocks, the dollar and the yen, too, against the D-mark.



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:59
EJ (Gold Glitters -- for Now) ID#45173:
-
Barron's Online
September 14, 1998


Bullion funds bounce back; also, meet a guy who saw the crash coming

By Barry Henderson

After a painful exile, managers of gold funds are stepping back into the limelight.

With stock markets around the world jittery, investors are seeking safety in gold stocks, and that
has sent the average gold fund up more than 20.26% during the past two weeks.

The atmosphere has improved for us, says George Domolky, who manages the Fidelity Select
Gold Portfolio and Fidelity Select Precious Metals funds. Like most of his counterparts, Domolky
invests primarily in gold-related stocks, which were bid up last week as investors watched the
price of gold bullion climb back up from an 18-year low. And for every 1% that gold bullion rises,
the stocks of gold companies tend to rise 3%-5% because, for them, higher gold prices mean
sharply higher earnings.

The rebound in bullion prices was caused in part by Clinton's troubles at home and the falling
value of the dollar against other currencies.

The biggest winners last week were well-established gold producers like Barrick Gold, Freeport
McMoRan Copper & Gold, Newmont Mining, Homestake Mining and Getchell Gold. Last
Thursday, Freeport moved up 16% to close at 18, while Getchell gained 25% to end the day at 15.
Homestake jumped 8% to 11 7/8, and Barrick gained 9.5% to close at 18 1/16. As a group, gold
mining stocks are still off about a third from their highs in April.

Gold-fund managers are clinging to the hope that this rally is more than a short-term spike in prices
caused by short-covering at hedge funds that had been betting that gold prices were headed lower.
The managers say that as the dollar continues to slide and the S&P 500 backtracks, gold stocks
will continue to gain ground. People finally see that our stock market isn't invulnerable, says
Ralph Aldus, who is part of the portfolio team that runs the U.S. Global Investors World Gold
fund. It's only in the U.S. that gold has been a non-performing asset during the past two years.

That's an understatement when you look at the longer-term performance of all of these funds. So
far this year, the average gold fund is down 15.20%. During the past five years, the average gold
fund has lost 9.97% per year.

For now, the past pressures on gold seem to have abated. Nevertheless, foreign central banks
could once again begin selling gold. Already countries like Canada, Australia and Belgium have
been forced to use up some of their gold reserves to support their own currencies. But portfolio
managers don't sound worried. Suzanne Killea, who co-manages the Franklin Advisors Gold
Fund, says the market is no longer worried about the central bank overhang. A lot of that has
already been resolved.

Dan Leonard, manager of the Invesco Strategic Gold fund, agrees. He thinks that most central
bankers realize that selling off gold to protect their currencies is a risky strategy. Canada sold
some gold to support the Canadian dollar, and it didn't work, he says.

The turmoil in the emerging markets, especially in Asia, could actually work to support the price of
gold, according to Mark Johnson, manager of the USAA Gold fund. I don't think many people
have focused on the fact that the institution of currency controls in Malaysia is a long-term positive
for gold, he says. If that works politically, I think you could see other countries doing the same
thing. By restricting the movement of currencies throughout this region, demand for gold should
increase, according to this line of reasoning.

Fidelity's Domolky says that not only have gold stocks been recovering because of improvements
in the price of gold itself but the fundamentals of some of the larger gold mining companies have
clearly gotten stronger as well. The larger companies have cut costs and improved their balance
sheets, while the smaller, weaker producers have gone by the wayside, he says. I think over the
next 12-18 months you're going to see more mergers and acquisitions in the industry.

Despite the recovery in gold shares, it's not clear that mutual-fund investors are convinced that
these funds are much more than short-term trading vehicles. The shareholder base of these funds is
notoriously fickle, sometimes buying and selling the funds in the course of a day or two. Stay
tuned.

In a move designed to placate investors wanting a more fully invested version of his best-known
portfolio, James Gipson is launching a new version of his famous UAM Clipper fund.

Gipson, a growth investor who has been known to hold as much as 55% of his portfolio in cash
and zero-coupon bonds, is starting up the UAM Clipper Focus fund, which will hold almost no
cash. The launch of this fund, which has been in the works since the beginning of the year,
couldn't come at a more awkward time, given the recent weakness in the market. After all, most
investors probably wouldn't mind a little cash cushion in their mutual funds just about now.

Gipson admits that it might not be the best time to launch the fund from a marketing standpoint.
However, he argues that potential shareholders should be thrilled that he's waited this long to get
the fund off the ground. It's a lot better to be buying stocks when the Dow is at 7600 than when
it's at 9300, he quipped.

Gipson, a well-respected large-cap value investor, who has produced an annualized return of
17.06% since the fund's inception in 1984, has refused to buy stocks when he can't find names
that suit his own stringent valuation criteria. He and co-managers Bruce Veaco and Michael
Sandler buy only stocks that are selling for 70% or less of intrinsic value. They come up with
this value by figuring the current value of a company's future cash flow and by estimating what a
buyer would pay for the company. For the past 24 months, nothing much has caught their fancy.

Gipson's June 30 report to Clipper fund shareholders crystallizes his mood about the market's
then-historically high valuation. There are times that successful investing requires brainpower,
he wrote. This is not one of those times. No great brainpower is required to see that the stock
market has blown by every valuation yardstick known to economic man. He went on to say that
the market was being supported by ... a class of investors whose rational minds are bearish but
whose portfolios are wildly bullish. There are many reasons for this fully invested decision, most
of which center around the eternal motives of greed ( wanting to get the last drop of profit ) and fear
( of being criticized for not getting the last drop of profit ) .

A lot has changed since June 30, and Gipson says he's adapted accordingly. We've started
buying again, although we aren't finding as much to buy as we did in October 1987. He's
keeping mum about what he's adding to the portfolio, although he's boosted the number of stocks
in Clipper from 17 to 22. Some of his larger holdings as of June 30 included Philip Morris, Nike,
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. At the time, he also had 38.2% of his fund in short-term Treasury
notes.

As losses widen for many funds, some investors will get another nasty surprise October 31.
That's the day most fund companies close out their tax year and decide how much they'll pay out
in capital-gains distributions. When that happens, many investors will have to pay big capital-gains
taxes -- even if their fund holdings are down for the year.

Even if a fund has a negative return for the year, it may have sold some securities that appreciated
in value and paid out those gains to investors. Now, if the portfolio manager hasn't sold off
enough losers to match those gains, shareholders are on the hook for capital-gains taxes. As
Morningstar analyst Amy Arnott points out, people who held Asian funds last year have probably
already learned this lesson firsthand. For example, the Asian Growth fund paid out 21% of its net
asset value in capital gains last year even though it lost 38.5% for the year. That means that an
investor who put $10,000 in the fund at the beginning of 1997 would finish up the year with
$6,150, and then have to pay taxes on the $1,300 capital-gain distribution.

The pain can get magnified in another way. If a fund has net redemptions -- a common occurrence
when funds slide into negative territory -- the capital gain is distributed over fewer shareholders.
Morningstar's Arnott points out that the average Asia fund saw its asset base cut in half in 1997
because of both market depreciation and redemptions.

Although funds like BT Investments Pacific Basin Equity, Merrill Lynch Dragon, TCW Galileo
Asia Pacific Equity and Van Eck Asia Dynasty also suffered from these same problems, the
tax-related woes haven't been confined Asia funds. The Oakmark International Small Cap fund
also paid out 14% of its net asset value at the end of 1997, even though it registered a 20% loss for
the year. The Prudential Natural Resources, Merrill Lynch Technology, and Oberweis Emerging
Growth funds all made similar moves. If the market stays weak through the end of October, expect
to see the same kind of situation in emerging markets, small-caps and even large-cap growth
funds.

To avoid this situation, some advisers like to steer their clients into funds with low turnover and a
growing shareholder base. Ed Goldfarb of the Kobren Insight Group recommends funds like
Oakmark Select, Baron Small Cap, Longleaf Partners and Gabelli Growth as solid, low-turnover
funds. For investors wanting growth and income, Goldfarb likes the Vanguard Municipal
Intermediate Term Bond fund or the Tweedy Browne Global Value fund as well as Longleaf
Partners, Longleaf Partners Realty and Warburg Pincus International.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:58
JTF (Depression scenario eventually --- natural human cycle) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
sharefin: On that matter I agree. It is human nature to ignore the cracks in the foundation if the house has not collapsed, even if the neigbor's house accross the river has already fallen.

Taking a lession from history, every country in the world is subject to periodic depressions -- sooner or later. The move to fiat currency of the last 100 years or so has softened the recessions, but at tremendous inflationary expense. It is clear that fiat currency policies do not prevent depressions. All one needs to do is look at the IMF and their complete inability to function in any meaningful manner.

I think the lesson from the great depresson after WWI is probably the best -- worldwide currency/economic collapses occured at different times in different countries in a serial fashion. For some reason then, it was the US that went down last.

One thing I find fascinating is the currenct sequence of events with the El Nino effect serially affecting different countries. The economic maladies followed in nearly the same sequence.

I have a strong suspicion that the bad weather first, economic problems second pattern was similar in the 20's and thirties -- but no proof. This may be the reason the US was last then as it probably will be now.

I suspect that the El Nino problems were severe enough to create the economic maladies that followed. There is another, more profound interpretation, but I have nothing to support it.

By the way, I think much of the increased volatility in the markets recently may be due to problems with derivatives trades -- not the baby boomers, who still don't really have a clue what's happening.

We have a number of problems looming:

1 ) Worldwide recession looming or worse due to the financial crises.

2 ) Derivatives explosion -- volume probably will go up before it goes down as everyone tries to 'insure' their accounts ( addictive like the net )

3 ) Y2k

4 ) WJC fiasco

5 ) Increased worldwide terrorism

This will eventually bring down all the world's economies, but not necessarily at the same time.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:45
EJ (@James: heart breaking report from Russia) ID#45173:
And what's the US doing? Fussing about sex and lies about sex.

When the history books are written, the US will go down again as self-absorbed with frivolous matters as the world, desperate for leadership for the strongest nation on earth, disintegrates.

Actually, the US electorate has a long history of disregard for the problems of distant nations, until such time that a profitable market for US goods and services to repair past damage develops in the wake of a terminal destruction.

-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:41
Tantalus (@Miro - 403k plan, what's that? ) ID#370236:
Is it available to publicly traded corporations?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:38
Speed (Goldteck) ID#29048:
An arms race will bust budgets and be inflationary. Japan will have to build up its military and the U.S. will be dragged back into missle defense. Strategic stockpiles of metals and oil will be replenished. Bad news for everything but precious metals and energy.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:33
EJ (@sharfin & TheMissingLink ) ID#45173:
sharfin, I'll call and ask him today, get an update and post later.

TheMissingLink, as the impact of what Barron's refers to as The Global Margin Call begins to make itselve felt, the resulting liquidity and credit crunch will put all currencies to the test, even the dollar. Maybe we're seeing this already in the drop of the dollar and the rise in the price of gold.
-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:26
SDRer (Oh blast and da.... SORRY!) ID#290172:
Memo to myself--Don't post before coffee...{:- ( ( (

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:26
Goldteck (A three-stage rocket, proved its potential for developing an inter-continental ballistic missile (IC) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
09-14-98 : Government Concludes North Korean Missile was Failed Satellite Attempt By Chon Shi-yong Staff reporter

The Seoul government believes that North Korea's firing of a rocket Aug. 31 was an unsuccessful attempt to put a satellite into orbit, a top administration official said yesterday.

``It is our interim conclusion that the North tried in vain to launch a satellite into orbit,'' said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

He said that the United States shares the Seoul government's judgment, adding that the United States has not found any satellite that could have been launched by the North.

The first booster of the rocket fell in the East Sea between Korea and Japan and the second booster, which overflew Japan, landed in the Pacific east of northern Japan.

The official said that American intelligence may have lost track of the third booster as it had originally believed the rocket was a two-stage Taepo-dong ballistic missile.

But he said the third-stage booster is believed to have landed somewhere 27 seconds after being separated from the rocket.

He said that despite its failure to put a satellite into orbit, North Korea, by firing a three-stage rocket, proved its potential for developing an inter-continental ballistic missile ( ICBM ) .

``We should not make light of this,'' the official said.

He said that weapons procurers from Middle East countries, major buyers of North Korean missiles, are believed to have witnessed the latest firing of the rocket.

He said that China was displeased by the North's rocket launch because of the possibility that it may encourage Japan to build up its military capability.

The official said that the Seoul government is maintaining close cooperation with Russian authorities regarding the North Korean satellite issue.

Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency first confirmed the North Korean claims that it launched a scientific satellite into orbit.

09-14-98 : `Some South Koreans Proud of North Korean Missile'

North Korea's missile launch has sparked worldwide alarm over its weapons capability but some younger South Koreans have taken pride in the technological achievements of their Stalinist foe.

And some of their parents even revelled secretly in watching the missile, or part of it, hurtle late last month over the territory of their former colonial master Japan, social analysts say.

At first South Koreans unanimously expressed shock. But their attitudes evolved intriguingly as time passed, especially after the reclusive North insisted the blast was its maiden satellite launch and not a weapons test.

``There is an ambivalent reaction here over what North Korea has done with regard to Japan,'' said Chang Kyong-suk, a sociologist at Seoul National University, when asked to comment on a startling survey of 118 young website users.

The poll, cited by a South Korean newspaper last week, showed that 57 percent of the respondents saw the blast as a positive development while only 24 percent perceived it negatively.

Advocates of extremism saw it as a ``gallant deed.'' ``This was a boastful event which proved the brighteness of Koreans,'' said one web user, codenamed Omega007.

Analysts played down the significance of the survey. Yet they concede some old Koreans appear to be feeling ``substitute satisfaction'' through North Korea which had managed to embarrass Japan's security and political establishment.

``Despite antagonism towards the North, South Koreans sometimes reveal ambivalence when they meet with such an incident. This is deemed an expression of historically-built denial sentiment,'' Chang said.

``Such feelings are rooted in historical relations between the two countries'' and in their view of Japan, he said.

The scholar suggested that Tokyo refrain from any overreaction, referring to deep-rooted and lingering anti-Japanese sentiment in South Korea based on Tokyo's harsh colonial rule here between 1910 and 1945.

Japan-bashing is a popular topic indulged in frequently by South Korea's media. Books capitalizing on anti-Japanese sentiment and nationalism are increasingly popular as the economy unravels.

A novel by Kim Jin-myong depicting the defeat of Japan by the combined forces of North and South Korea sold more than one million copies when published here in 1993.

His second novel published this year deals with a similar topic and has sold around 700,000 copies in the past four months.

Kim's consecutive successes illustrate persistent anti-Japanese sentiment here. But publishers acknowledged that poor sales of other books amid the country's economic woes prompted them to cash in on sensationalism.

``Publishers are capitalizing on the sentiment,'' Lee Moon-Jae, a publisher, told the Korea Herald newspaper. Books describing Japan in a negative manner are seen as surefire cash cows, it said.

No country has been able officially to deny or verify North Korea's claim that the launch was not a weapons test.

But Japan, embarrassed by its failure to spot it, has suspended aid to North Korea, which still regards the former colonial ruler as an enemy.

Tokyo has also threatened to step back from talks on a 1994 agreement under which Pyongyang froze its nuclear program in exchange for safer energy supplies. ( AFP )

Meanwhile, the Seoul government came under fire by conservatives, who have insisted it should also push ahead with a missile development program.

Seoul and Washington are debating whether restrictions must be lifted to extend the range of South Korean missiles which have been limited to 180km ( 108 miles ) under a mutual defense pact.

Washington, concerned about a missile race on the Korean peninsula, has been reluctant to ease restrictions while Seoul wants a longer-range missile to defend itself. ( AFP ) http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/kh0914/m0914l01.html http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/kh0914/m0914l08.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:24
SDRer (Oooooh my goodness! Do we have a de facto gold standard at hand? (Sorry, this is long-but this is ce) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Very few opponents of a gold standard know what it is or how it works or how many different ways there are to link paper money to gold. The question arises again and again:How can we be on a gold standard when there is so little gold and so much money needed to finance this enormous world economy?

The answer is that it is the function of the central bank only to maintain the standard, the unit of account, and the rest of the
world will create its own money around that standard.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html>http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html

Exhibit I:
Eur-Lex Community Legislation in force Legal act [ 11.50.30 - Specific aid actions ] [11.40.10.20 - Mediterranean countries ]

277A0915 ( 01 ) Additional Protocol to the Agreement establishing an association between the European Economic Community and the Republic of CYPRUS - Protocol concerning the definition of the concept of 'originating products` and methods of administrative cooperation

THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( U.A . ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAM OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER AT THE LEVEL OF THE ASSOCIATION COUNCIL TO REDEFINE THE VALUE IN TERMS OF GOLD .

Exhibit II: Similar Protocols with Republic of Switzerland:
Eur-Lex Community legislation in force Legal act [ 11.40.10.10 - Member countries of the European Free Trade ssociation ( EFTA ) ] Extra-Community trade: EFTA agreements ] 272A0722 ( 03 )

Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Swiss
Confederation…

3 . THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( UA ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAMS
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER AT JOINT COMMITTEE LEVEL TO RE-DEFINE THE VALUE IN TERMS OF GOLD…

And the Kingdom of Norway

EUR-Lex: Legal act 273A0514 ( 01 ) 273A0514 ( 01 ) Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Kingdom of Norway - Protocol No 1 concerning the treatment applicable to certain products - Protocol No 2 concerning products subject to special arrangements to take account of differr ...[30-jul-1998

3. The unit of account ( UA ) has a value of 0.88867088 grammes of fine gold. Should the unit of account be changed, the Contracting Parties shall make contact with each other at Joint Committee level to redefine the value in terms of gold.

And others….

Exhibit III:
373R0907 Regulation ( EEC ) No 907/73 of the Council of 3 April 1973
establishing a European Monetary Cooperation Fund Official journal NO. Article 4
The provisions contained in the Agreements referred to in the third indent of Article 3 shall become the a ... 30-jul-1998

Article 5 The Fund's operations in the currencies of the Member States shall be expressed in a European monetary unit of account of a value of 0,788867088 grammes of fine gold.

When all the Member States alter the parity or the central rate of their currency simultaneously in the same direction, the value of the unit of account shall be changed automatically: - where the parities change in the same proportion : in the same direction and by the same proportion as the changes in parities or in the central rates;
- where the parities change in different proportions : in the same direction as the change and in the same proportion as the smallest change in parity or central rate, unless the Council decides on a larger change. In such a case the Council shall act within three days from that of the official announcement by the first Member State to change the parity or central rate of its currency, and in accordance with the procedure laid down in the fourth paragraph of this Article.

Simultaneous changes mean changes in the parity or central rate of the currencies of the Member States made within the three-day period referred to above.

Exhibit IV:
Financial Organization and Operations of the IMF
Appendix 1: Financial Terms

This appendix provides a glossary of basic operational and financial terms as used in the IMF.
Accounting Unit

The Fund's unit of account is the SDR ( see entry below ) .

Members' currencies are valued by the Fund in terms of the SDR on the basis of their representative rates of exchange, determined in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Fund. Gold with depositories is valued on the basis that 0.888671 gram of fine gold is equivalent to 1 SDR ( SDR 35 per fine ounce ) , except for 21,396 fine ounces acquired by the Fund on December 14, 1992 at market value.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm>http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm>http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm>http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm


Exhibit V:

0.888671 gram of fine gold…

Am I walking the circle…or dizzy and going around in circles? This I did not expect. A currency defined, like the BIS GF, in a specific measure of fine gold. In fact, two currencies so defined: the Gold SDR and the Euro…can it be? Dare we believe?

The chief function of money is as an accounting unit. If the Eurocrats understood that, they would go back to the drawing boards and build a monetary system from that assumption. This would require them to first fix the Eurocurrency to something the markets would understand as being a reliable unit of account.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html

It would appear that they do understand, they did go back to the drawing board, they have fixed their currency to something markets understand as
a reliable unit of account. Gold. Can't believe this. {:- ) )













Oooooh my goodness! Do we have a de facto gold standard at hand? ( Sorry, this is long-but this is central )

Very few opponents of a gold standard know what it is or how it works or how many different ways there are to link paper money to gold. The question arises again and again: How can we be on a gold standard when there is so little gold and so much money needed to finance this enormous world economy?

The answer is that it is the function of the central bank only to maintain the standard, the unit of account, and the rest of the world will create its own money around that standard.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html

Exhibit I:
Eur-Lex
Community Legislation in force Legal act [ 11.50.30 - Specific aid actions ] [
11.40.10.20 - Mediterranean countries ]

277A0915 ( 01 ) Additional Protocol to the Agreement establishing an association
between the European Economic Community and the Republic of CYPRUS -
Protocol concerning the definition of the concept of 'originating products` and
methods of administrative cooperation

THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( U.A . ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAM
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER
AT THE LEVEL OF THE ASSOCIATION COUNCIL TO REDEFINE THE
VALUE IN TERMS OF GOLD .
Exhibit II: Similar Protocols with Republic of Switzerland:
Eur-Lex Community legislation in force
Legal act [ 11.40.10.10 - Member countries of the European Free Trade
Association ( EFTA ) ] Extra-Community trade: EFTA agreements ]
272A0722 ( 03 )

Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Swiss
Confederation…
3 . THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( UA ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAMS
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER
AT JOINT COMMITTEE LEVEL TO RE-DEFINE THE VALUE IN TERMS
OF GOLD…

And the Kingdom of Norway

EUR-Lex: Legal act 273A0514 ( 01 )
/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/en_273A0514_01.html

273A0514 ( 01 ) Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Kingdom of Norway - Protocol No 1 concerning the treatment applicable to certain products - Protocol No 2 concerning products subject to special arrangements to take account of differr ...[30-jul-1998 134 K]

3. The unit of account ( UA ) has a value of 0.88867088 grammes of fine gold. Should the unit of account be
changed, the Contracting Parties shall make contact with each other at Joint Committee level to redefine the value in terms of gold.

And others….

Exhibit III:

373R0907 Regulation ( EEC ) No 907/73 of the Council of 3 April 1973
establishing a European Monetary Cooperation Fund Official journal NO. Article 4
The provisions contained in the Agreements referred to in the third indent of Article 3
shall become the a ... 30-jul-1998

Article 5
The Fund's operations in the currencies of the Member States shall be expressed in a
European monetary unit of account of a value of 0,788867088 grammes of fine gold.

When all the Member States alter the parity or the central rate of their currency
simultaneously in the same direction, the value of the unit of account shall be changed
automatically: - where the parities change in the same proportion : in the same
direction and by the same proportion as the changes in parities or in the central rates;
- where the parities change in different proportions : in the same direction as the
change and in the same proportion as the smallest change in parity or central rate,
unless the Council decides on a larger change. In such a case the Council shall act
within three days from that of the official announcement by the first Member State to
change the parity or central rate of its currency, and in accordance with the
procedure laid down in the fourth paragraph of this Article.

Simultaneous changes mean changes in the parity or central rate of the currencies of
the Member States made within the three-day period referred to above.
Any other changes in the value of the unit of account shall be decided on by the
Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission after consulting the
Monetary Committee and the Board of Governors of the Fund.


Exhibit IV:
Financial Organization and Operations of the IMF
Appendix 1: Financial Terms

This appendix provides a glossary of basic operational and financial terms as used in the IMF.
Accounting Unit

The Fund's unit of account is the SDR ( see entry below ) .

Members' currencies are valued by the Fund in terms of the SDR on the basis of their representative rates of exchange, determined in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Fund. Gold with depositories is valued on the basis that 0.888671 gram of fine gold is equivalent to 1 SDR ( SDR 35 per fine ounce ) , except for 21,396 fine ounces acquired by the Fund on December 14, 1992 at market value.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm


Exhibit V:

0.888671 gram of fine gold…

Am I walking the circle…or dizzy from going around in circles. This I did not expect. A currency defined, like the BIS GF, in a specific measure of fine gold. In fact, two currencies so defined: the Gold SDR and the Euro…can it be? Dare we believe?

The chief function of money is as an accounting unit. If the Eurocrats understood that, they would go back to the drawing boards and build a monetary system from that assumption. This would require them to first fix the Eurocurrency to something the markets would understand as being a reliable unit of account.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html





Oooooh my goodness! Do we have a de facto gold standard at hand? ( Sorry, this is long-but this is central )

Very few opponents of a gold standard know what it is or how it works or how many different ways there are to link paper money to gold. The question arises again and again: How can we be on a gold standard when there is so little gold and so much money needed to finance this enormous world economy?

The answer is that it is the function of the central bank only to maintain the standard, the unit of account, and the rest of the world will create its own money around that standard.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html

Exhibit I:
Eur-Lex
Community Legislation in force Legal act [ 11.50.30 - Specific aid actions ] [
11.40.10.20 - Mediterranean countries ]

277A0915 ( 01 ) Additional Protocol to the Agreement establishing an association
between the European Economic Community and the Republic of CYPRUS -
Protocol concerning the definition of the concept of 'originating products` and
methods of administrative cooperation

THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( U.A . ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAM
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER
AT THE LEVEL OF THE ASSOCIATION COUNCIL TO REDEFINE THE
VALUE IN TERMS OF GOLD .
Exhibit II: Similar Protocols with Republic of Switzerland:
Eur-Lex Community legislation in force
Legal act [ 11.40.10.10 - Member countries of the European Free Trade
Association ( EFTA ) ] Extra-Community trade: EFTA agreements ]
272A0722 ( 03 )

Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Swiss
Confederation…
3 . THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( UA ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAMS
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER
AT JOINT COMMITTEE LEVEL TO RE-DEFINE THE VALUE IN TERMS
OF GOLD…

And the Kingdom of Norway

EUR-Lex: Legal act 273A0514 ( 01 )
/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/en_273A0514_01.html

273A0514 ( 01 ) Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Kingdom of Norway - Protocol No 1 concerning the treatment applicable to certain products - Protocol No 2 concerning products subject to special arrangements to take account of differr ...[30-jul-1998 134 K]

3. The unit of account ( UA ) has a value of 0.88867088 grammes of fine gold. Should the unit of account be
changed, the Contracting Parties shall make contact with each other at Joint Committee level to redefine the value in terms of gold.

And others….

Exhibit III:

373R0907 Regulation ( EEC ) No 907/73 of the Council of 3 April 1973
establishing a European Monetary Cooperation Fund Official journal NO. Article 4
The provisions contained in the Agreements referred to in the third indent of Article 3
shall become the a ... 30-jul-1998

Article 5
The Fund's operations in the currencies of the Member States shall be expressed in a
European monetary unit of account of a value of 0,788867088 grammes of fine gold.

When all the Member States alter the parity or the central rate of their currency
simultaneously in the same direction, the value of the unit of account shall be changed
automatically: - where the parities change in the same proportion : in the same
direction and by the same proportion as the changes in parities or in the central rates;
- where the parities change in different proportions : in the same direction as the
change and in the same proportion as the smallest change in parity or central rate,
unless the Council decides on a larger change. In such a case the Council shall act
within three days from that of the official announcement by the first Member State to
change the parity or central rate of its currency, and in accordance with the
procedure laid down in the fourth paragraph of this Article.

Simultaneous changes mean changes in the parity or central rate of the currencies of
the Member States made within the three-day period referred to above.
Any other changes in the value of the unit of account shall be decided on by the
Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission after consulting the
Monetary Committee and the Board of Governors of the Fund.


Exhibit IV:
Financial Organization and Operations of the IMF
Appendix 1: Financial Terms

This appendix provides a glossary of basic operational and financial terms as used in the IMF.
Accounting Unit

The Fund's unit of account is the SDR ( see entry below ) .

Members' currencies are valued by the Fund in terms of the SDR on the basis of their representative rates of exchange, determined in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Fund. Gold with depositories is valued on the basis that 0.888671 gram of fine gold is equivalent to 1 SDR ( SDR 35 per fine ounce ) , except for 21,396 fine ounces acquired by the Fund on December 14, 1992 at market value.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm


Exhibit V:

0.888671 gram of fine gold…

Am I walking the circle…or dizzy from going around in circles. This I did not expect. A currency defined, like the BIS GF, in a specific measure of fine gold. In fact, two currencies so defined: the Gold SDR and the Euro…can it be? Dare we believe?

The chief function of money is as an accounting unit. If the Eurocrats understood that, they would go back to the drawing boards and build a monetary system from that assumption. This would require them to first fix the Eurocurrency to something the markets would understand as being a reliable unit of account.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html




Oooooh my goodness! Do we have a de facto gold standard at hand? ( Sorry, this is long-but this is central )

Very few opponents of a gold standard know what it is or how it works or how many different ways there are to link paper money to gold. The question arises again and again: How can we be on a gold standard when there is so little gold and so much money needed to finance this enormous world economy?

The answer is that it is the function of the central bank only to maintain the standard, the unit of account, and the rest of the world will create its own money around that standard.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html

Exhibit I:
Eur-Lex
Community Legislation in force Legal act [ 11.50.30 - Specific aid actions ] [
11.40.10.20 - Mediterranean countries ]

277A0915 ( 01 ) Additional Protocol to the Agreement establishing an association
between the European Economic Community and the Republic of CYPRUS -
Protocol concerning the definition of the concept of 'originating products` and
methods of administrative cooperation

THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( U.A . ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAM
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER
AT THE LEVEL OF THE ASSOCIATION COUNCIL TO REDEFINE THE
VALUE IN TERMS OF GOLD .
Exhibit II: Similar Protocols with Republic of Switzerland:
Eur-Lex Community legislation in force
Legal act [ 11.40.10.10 - Member countries of the European Free Trade
Association ( EFTA ) ] Extra-Community trade: EFTA agreements ]
272A0722 ( 03 )

Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Swiss
Confederation…
3 . THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT ( UA ) HAS A VALUE OF 0,88867088 GRAMS
OF FINE GOLD . SHOULD THE UNIT OF ACCOUNT BE CHANGED , THE
CONTRACTING PARTIES SHALL MAKE CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER
AT JOINT COMMITTEE LEVEL TO RE-DEFINE THE VALUE IN TERMS
OF GOLD…

And the Kingdom of Norway

EUR-Lex: Legal act 273A0514 ( 01 )
/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/en_273A0514_01.html

273A0514 ( 01 ) Agreement between the European Economic Community and the Kingdom of Norway - Protocol No 1 concerning the treatment applicable to certain products - Protocol No 2 concerning products subject to special arrangements to take account of differr ...[30-jul-1998 134 K]

3. The unit of account ( UA ) has a value of 0.88867088 grammes of fine gold. Should the unit of account be
changed, the Contracting Parties shall make contact with each other at Joint Committee level to redefine the value in terms of gold.

And others….

Exhibit III:

373R0907 Regulation ( EEC ) No 907/73 of the Council of 3 April 1973
establishing a European Monetary Cooperation Fund Official journal NO. Article 4
The provisions contained in the Agreements referred to in the third indent of Article 3
shall become the a ... 30-jul-1998

Article 5
The Fund's operations in the currencies of the Member States shall be expressed in a
European monetary unit of account of a value of 0,788867088 grammes of fine gold.

When all the Member States alter the parity or the central rate of their currency
simultaneously in the same direction, the value of the unit of account shall be changed
automatically: - where the parities change in the same proportion : in the same
direction and by the same proportion as the changes in parities or in the central rates;
- where the parities change in different proportions : in the same direction as the
change and in the same proportion as the smallest change in parity or central rate,
unless the Council decides on a larger change. In such a case the Council shall act
within three days from that of the official announcement by the first Member State to
change the parity or central rate of its currency, and in accordance with the
procedure laid down in the fourth paragraph of this Article.

Simultaneous changes mean changes in the parity or central rate of the currencies of
the Member States made within the three-day period referred to above.
Any other changes in the value of the unit of account shall be decided on by the
Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission after consulting the
Monetary Committee and the Board of Governors of the Fund.


Exhibit IV:
Financial Organization and Operations of the IMF
Appendix 1: Financial Terms

This appendix provides a glossary of basic operational and financial terms as used in the IMF.
Accounting Unit

The Fund's unit of account is the SDR ( see entry below ) .

Members' currencies are valued by the Fund in terms of the SDR on the basis of their representative rates of exchange, determined in accordance with the Rules and Regulations of the Fund. Gold with depositories is valued on the basis that 0.888671 gram of fine gold is equivalent to 1 SDR ( SDR 35 per fine ounce ) , except for 21,396 fine ounces acquired by the Fund on December 14, 1992 at market value.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm


Exhibit V:

0.888671 gram of fine gold…

Am I walking the circle…or dizzy from going around in circles. This I did not expect. A currency defined, like the BIS GF, in a specific measure of fine gold. In fact, two currencies so defined: the Gold SDR and the Euro…can it be? Dare we believe?

The chief function of money is as an accounting unit. If the Eurocrats understood that, they would go back to the drawing boards and build a monetary system from that assumption. This would require them to first fix the Eurocurrency to something the markets would understand as being a reliable unit of account.
http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/sumles2.html


















Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:23
Tantalus (mole @3:37 - Why indeed do women circle around /defend Klinton?) ID#370236:
While he mouths what they want to hear, his actions should
expose him as an out & out womanizer. As several here have
mentioned, such behavior in military or corporate life
is strictly forbidden and dealt with most harshly.

I have thought on this a lot, with no resolution.
Does it make sense to anybody here?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:16
BATTLESCARED (CRUISE to SUN) ID#263179:
Breaking news
67% of the people to go on big cruise ship,
with President Clinton to the SUN
69% SIGN up after being assured by Clinton NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT WERE GOING AT NIGHT

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 09:03
Selby (A view of Bill from the land of Ice and Snow) ID#286230:
http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/front2.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:57
a.j. (Clinton--The Poor Sap-by an Arkansawyer) ID#257136:
Copyright © 1998 a.j./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I stole this from a forum based in Little Rock.
No apologies are needed.
It is definitely interesting!

( very long )

The President lied under oath in a Federal civil trial. The President lied to a Federal Grand Jury.
The President lied to the American people. The President violated his oath of office. The President
had a sexual relationship with a subordinate in the workplace. The President used government
employees to unwittingly facilitate his cover up. The President knowingly allowed someone to file a
false affidavit in a Federal court. These are felonies. Felonies definitely fall within the definition of
high crimes and misdemeanors. We CAN impeach the President, in fact the Constitution leads us
to do so. I believe that our forefathers would nod their heads and say get on with it.

In actuality what the President did is to manipulate the flaccid minds of the American herd to think
what he wanted them to think for his own benefit and used the levers of power to hide and facilitate
that manipulation. Sounds very bad doesn't it.

But lets look. Senator Byrd recently got up off of his ancient ass and made a frontal attack on the
line-item veto. The reason for this was purportedly because the Constitutional separation of powers
was being violated. The real reason of course was that he wanted to continue to steal approximately
half of the Federal highway funds to take back to his own state in order to bribe his brain-dead
pork-selfish constituents into allowing him to remain asleep at his desk in the senate for an additional
6 years. Is he not manipulating the brain-dead American people, is he not feeding the judicial
system faked reasons to protect his nest. He will now sit in judgement of this poor sap of a
President who was seeking to hide a dirty little fling.

My dear Republicans are trying to have the bankruptcy laws changed. The purported reasons for
this is to stop those awful abusers of the system. We must burn the village to save it. You may very
well agree that the system is being abused. But do you think that is the real reason that it has such
support in Congress despite the fact that bankruptcy judges hate it and are opposed to it? No, the
reason is that the debt sellers have an army of lobbyists with handfuls of campaign cash with which
they are bribing my dear Republicans with. Any other purported reason is merely a manipulation of
our real and justified hatred of abuse in the system. Are not these representatives attempting to
actually CHANGE our judicial system to benefit themselves, play off of our desire for an end to
abuse to feather their own nests? These people will now sit in judgment of the poor sap of a
President seeking to hide his silly little fling. Which is worse?

In the recent campaign finance hearings the Democrats did everything in their power to prostitute
themselves and hide the sources of their ill-gotten gains. They stood in the way at every turn,
refusing to issue subpoenas, throwing monkey wrenches into the committee process, etc. The
witnesses FLED THE COUNTRY, REFUSED TO HONOR SUBPOENAS, TOOK THE 5TH
AMENDMENT, and did not recall. They subverted our system, abused it, and manipulated our
flaccid minds to protect their asses. They'll now sit in judgment of this sap of a President.

My dear Republicans, after having made so much of campaign finance abuses by the Democrats,
have stonewalled any attempt to do anything at all about it. They greatly enjoyed talking about it
and shouting their outrage. Yet the fact is that they have recently earned more ill-gotten gains than
the Democrats. They are less blatant about the bribes they take, and a little more circumspect about
who they take it from, but they nonetheless have gotten more. And since they have gotten more,
since there are more bribes available for those in the majority, they suddenly are unwilling to actually
change this advantageous system. Is this hypocrisy not a manipulation, isn't it an abuse of power? Is
it what the founding fathers wanted it to be or is it a subversion? They will now sit in judgment of
this sap of a President.

I can go on forever but need not. So what becomes of this sap of a President? Are we to be
selectively outraged and kick him and his disfunctional family and his army of professional
manipulators out on their asses? Do we expect that his replacement will suddenly make our
government a bright and shining example to the world? No, his replacement is the same beast in a
different husk, the same world view with a different army of spinners.

I sit here tonight listening to the talking heads explaining how pornographic and gross the
descriptions of the President's sexual activity and saying that they are outraged. When in fact the
sexual adventures of the President detailed in the report are pathetic. The idea that these things are
kinky are laughable. The President refused to ejaculate during the majority of the encounters. The
sexual activities described are not even close to the level of Dick Morris toe-sucking. Someone said
that after reading it they thought that the President was perverted. Nuts. The sexual activities listed
are about as weak as you can get these days. We do not know the relationship between the
President and his wife. There may be no relationship other than professional. They may have
abandoned their marriage vows a long time ago. Adultery is not something we appreciate, but for all
we know the President may be a single man except for public appearance sake. I cannot generate a
high level of outrage for the sexual activity in the report. We know for a fact that the man didn't get
drunk and drive her off of a bridge and leave her. He has that at least going for him.

The report as a whole points out clearly the abuses that require an impeachment inquiry. But the
narrative that goes along with it is a sad and somber thing. Its the story of how something so silly
and ridiculous can turn into a living nightmare. How a silly girl and a lonely man with an ego can
create an explosion. To bad William Faulkner wasn't arround to assist in the final draft.

Today we do not tolerate sex between a man and a female in a subordinate work position. Political
correctness does not allow this regardless of the level of consent. I have often thought that this was
politically correct over reaction. I won't change my mind because this time its this sap of a
President. She consented, in fact, the report shows that she actively pursued the relationship. She is
a big girl and wanted it. I'm afraid I'll have to discount the politically correct sex with a coworker
argument.

It appears to me that the President is guilty of rationalization all along. He rationalized that he was
telling the truth in certain instances. He rationalized that he was being smarter than his questioners.
He rationalized that he was fooling people. He tried to finesse his way through a process that deals
only in black and white. He thought he was a smart guy who could walk the legal tightrope. He
made every bad mistake he could possibly make at every turn in this episode. Its no surprise
though. This is what we have trained our politicians to be. We have created a political system and
Bill Clinton is the perfect creation of that system. In order to survive in the political system we have
created you must be Bill Clinton. Is Bill Clinton completely to blame for what we have created. We
here in Arkansas must look very closely at ourselves because our system was the farm club for the
creation of this perfect manipulator.

And so now we must, as our Constitution provides for and our forefathers demand, begin to
impeach this man who got caught. Like the Egyptians we must begin the process of chiseling off his
name. I am so sad that we have to do this. I'm sad that we have to witness the spectacle of this sap
being judged by a cadre of duly elected representatives who, to a man, have abused the system in
their own special way. It has to be done because he got caught.

But even so, I am allowing a small space for redemption. For me, after reading the report, it is still
possible for this person to save himself and for once in his life rise above the swamp we have
created. If he takes the opportunity I am willing to put aside all of this and allow him, finally, to try
and be a President. It is possible for him to use his own downfall as the biggest bully pulpit that any
President has ever had.

I'll be honest. I don't think he will be able to do it. What it would require is that he admit what he is
and what he has lived. It would require that he abandon all the pretense. It would require that he
leave all the lawyers and all the spinners behind and step out on his own and show us that we are
him and he is us and that he is determined to change if we are. Should he do such a thing in the well
of the Senate before his assembled co-conspirators and a worldwide TV audience he would no
longer need to search for his legacy.

Today at the White House prayer breakfast I detected that he could be capable of such a thing. But
later in the day the roaches crawled out into the light and started a new campaign of spinning, and
weaving, and bobbing at his direction. So for now, we start on the path that the Constitution
demands. I imagine he will survive and manage to limp painfully through two years and enjoy a
historical footnote with Warren G. Harding after leaving a trail of damage like no other. It need not
be this way if he will listen to what he himself read from Gates of Redemption this morning and not
what David Kendall said this afternoon. Thats not going to happen is it? Rats.




Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:53
sharefin (JTF) ID#284255:
-
One thing that concerns me here in OZ is when I go into town for some shopping.
70% of all food and goods are manufactured in Asia.

And from what I've read they are in bad/worse shape re Y2k.

There's going to be a rash of angry people because they can't buy their favorite convenience food.

Boy are they in for a shock.

As to the depression scenario.
I think that we're heading down that road regardless of Y2k.
Solely because we're at the top of a massive debt pyramid bubble.
Already the turn in debt risk is to be noticed and yet Y2k has had no impact as yet.

Y2k will just be a spanner in the works to drive the message home.

My intentions come selling my home - are to be debt free, assets in physical, well provisioned and way away from the crowds.
A small stash of cash and some contingency funds will see me through.

Perhaps I may pop out of the woods in a few years to see my physical worth a great deal more and house prices 50% from the lofty levels they are at now.
And society a little saner than it is right now.

Best part of this whole coming venture is that we will be living the life of country bumkins with few worries and a peacefull lifestyle.
The stresses of the city life will be far behind.
One and all of our family are keen to make the change.



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:27
BUFFORD (Crest of the tidal wave has saved me money) ID#253246:

I was reading the yauger update this am and it amazes me that there is
always some explanation why their wave predictions were wrong or
didn't pan out. ( extended 5th wave; new one to me ) . I use my Crest of
the tidal wave to blance my oscilating fan on the window seal and it
saved me $20 frm buying a window fan.
To this day I still believe that the pilot on TWA Flight 800 was using
elliot waves to fly that plane

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:26
TYoung (SDRer...@23:25...BINGO) ID#317193:
Thank you kind sir...you keep finding answers but it seems more questions are then raised. We watch this new gold market together. NAB?

Tom

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:25
Suspicious (Clinton in deep dodo, who will we bomb next week?) ID#287312:
How can the market possibly hold up under the strain of this any longer.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:22
JTF (Governments and y2k) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
sharefin: Governments are generally the same the world over. They can only deal with what they are convinced is a crisis, and even then they are inefficient. Federal governments are by far the worst.

If everything comes to a crashing halt due to y2k -- my intuitive guess is that it will not -- all that will be left will be barter in small communities. This is fairly common in rural USA, where the average small town occupant trades goods and services without using official channels -- to avoid taxation. Whether the US government likes it or not, this happens. Can't blame rural Americans for doing this, as their standard of living has been eroded for years to the point where many have multiple jobs just to get food on the table.

What I think is most likely to happen is what I think Gary North is saying -- that we will have an economic slowdown -- simply because all failures will not occur at the same time. The stock markets will be the mnost sensitive to this -- even if Wall Street is y2k compliant. Looks like we are already heading into a recession in the US without Y2K.

If the US FED goes down, that would be serious indeed -- and could trigger a depression.

Gary North's concepts of failure analysis seem right on the money, with regard to the fact that the number of links in a chain increase the probability of failure proportionately. However, I'm not sure that anyone can estimate the probability of a y2k related depression in the US -- the variables and other numbers necessary for that calculation are not available -- too many uncertainties about whether failures will occur at the same time -- or whether they will be predominately random and isolated.

Regardless, the y2k problem is a real serious one for the US -- as it will probably occur when the US is at its weakest -- unless WJC steps down very soon.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:11
panda (Earl!) ID#30126:
Copyright © 1998 panda/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Damn it man! I'm out here scraping and painting and you go fishing? :- ) ) As to the shooting star, yes, it was not one. Unfortunately, having lived through this gold bear market, I , as many here, have the scars to show for it. As a result, anything that looks like a 'failure' of any type is cause to run for the hills. So you see, the brokers win again. :- ) )

Now, if we break $300 U.S. with the current turmoil, and the hedge funds keep on losing money... On the other hand ( damn choices again! ) there's the question of the Dow testing the 200 DMA in the future. If this occurs, is it a suckers rally or a rebound? Inquiring gold bugs will want to know, indeed must know. With dollar having a negative bias these days, can the repatriation of foreign funds en mass be far behind?

BBML.....................................

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 08:00
panda (Roebear) ID#30126:
Black gold isn't so bad! It certainly has a greater following than the yellow version, and the world needs it to boot. I would like to say that I'm a great 'timer', but the truth is far more simple. I was lucky or stupid enough to take the gamble. The race track paid off this time around. Technical analysis is a PROBABILITY thing. It indicates when the conditions MAY be favorable to a change in trend. The rest requires physical and psychological ( ? ) attributes many times the size of WJC's. :- ) ) We shall watch this gold chart together, yes?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 07:56
sharefin (Yardeni on Interconnections: Failing Together) ID#284255:
-
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2544

Electricity flows across large regional networks according to physical laws and cannot be routed by switches or stored in large quantities. Supply and demand for electricity must be kept in balance at each instant in time on a continuous basis. Reliability is essential and can be maintained only through constant cooperation among many parties.

Grid control is decentralized into approximately 150 power control areas within the contiguous 48 states that are interconnected and must coordinate their activities to maintain reliability. . . .

The electricity systems of North America are connected within four large Interconnections. . . .

Each of these four Interconnections is a highly connected network. A major disturbance within one part of an Interconnection will rapidly have an impact throughout the Interconnection and has the potential to cascade the effect to the entire Interconnection. The four Interconnections are, for the most part, independent from each other because they are connected by comparatively small high voltage direct current ( HVDC ) electrical ties and do not interconnect synchronously. The one notable exception is the major HVDC tie lines from Hydro-Quebec into the Northeastern United States. Loss of these facilities and the power supply from Quebec can have a substantial impact on power delivery systems in the Northeastern portion of the United States. Highly Interdependent Within each Interconnection, power production and delivery systems are highly interdependent. In general, systems are operated such that the loss of one facility, or in some cases two or three facilities, will not cause cascading outages. Y2K poses the threat that common mode failures ( such as all generator protection relays of a particular model failing simultaneously ) may stress the electric system to the point of a cascading outage over a large area. . . .

The industry will succeed or fail together in its readiness for Y2K, according to NERC. . . .

---------------------
And I guess that's enough for one day.

So much info out the on Y2k that one wonders why denial-heads still can debate the issue.

Concerned yet?
If not time to start thinking about what's really going on.

Surely your Gov't wouldn't lie to you
Now would they.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 07:51
sharefin (Britain Threatens to Bankrupt Companies Early: Y2K Sanctions) ID#284255:
-
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2545

Independent regulators will also be appointed to assess how compliant the companies are. They will have the power to shut businesses down if they fail to meet a satisfactory level of compliancy, They will effectively be able to take away the livelihood of a business. It is a serious message from the regulators, said [Action 2000's Don] Cruickshank. . . .

------------------------
Currently no banks and utilities are compliant.
Where? - ANYWHERE.

Australia's largest bank - National Bank has admitted it will not be compliant by 2000.
Australia's largest telecom - Telstra has admitted it will not be compliant by 2000.
Australia's largest insurer - AMP has admitted it will not be compliant by 2000.
-----------------------

Makes one wonder?

Time to get more gold, guns and grub.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 07:51
panda (Tantalus) ID#30126:
I guess that's what makes markets, those who dream and those who see things for the way they are now. Methinks some 'pain' is still very much ahead of us. The trick will to place the bucket so as to catch those dollars before they ascend to money heaven. I hate to see perfectly good money depart this earthly existence prematurely. :- ) )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 07:48
JTF (Excerpts from my 5:22 post Why WJC is history whether he knows it or not.) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: THIS INFORMATION IS VERY IMPORTANT -- PLEASE READ IT. This explains in a nutshell why WJC is finished in the court of public opinion. His August speech was the coup de gras -- self inflicted.

The Nixon spy who has Clinton taped

-- Thursday Aug 27, 1998, from the Electronic Telegraph --

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

LUCIANNE Goldberg is already thinking ahead. Puffing on a Lark cigarette with an 18-carat Dunhill holder from Harrods - it is still, just,legal to smoke in New York - the architect of Bill Clinton's downfall wonders which agency of the US government will carry out the final, humiliating act. The FBI? The US Marshals? The cigar inspectors from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms? Which one will be sent to extract President Clinton from the Oval Office?

It's a real constitutional question: who can arrest the President? It's the Park Police that's responsible for tidying up the White House, so maybe they'll have to clean up this mess, she said, with a loud guffaw, as we sat in a gale outside the Rockefeller Centre eating pâté de foie gras. I can see it now, they'll have to prise his long, white, bony fingers from the Roosevelt Desk and drag him out.

Mrs Goldberg, née Von Steinberger, a 6ft, blonde, high-church Episcopalian married to a wealthy New York Jew, has some experience with disintegrating presidencies. Before becoming a novelist and literary agent, she served as a press bunny to President Johnson, and then switched to the Republicans in time to get a ringside seat for the demise of President Nixon. In 1972, the Campaign to Re-elect the President, Creep of Watergate fame, paid her $1,000 a week to work as an observer- spy, actually, codenamed 'Chapman's Friend' - on the election campaign of George McGovern. Masquerading as a journalist, she wrote field reports that were rushed by special courier to Nixon at the White House.

But if Nixon had his faults, at least he had the grace to resign when his time was up, she says. This President is a different animal. By the manner of his leaving, she predicts, Mr Clinton will achieve the extraordinary feat of making Nixon look like a gentleman.

In the meantime, she is expecting trouble and is worried about her cat, a five year-old calico tabby. The White House goon squads are capable of doing anything when they find out that her name is Margaret Thatcher, she said.

There is already one feline casualty in the Lewinsky wars. Kathleen Willey, the White House volunteer who has accused Mr Clinton of grabbing her breasts in the wiggle room off the Oval Office, says her 13-year-old, Bullseye, vanished last year at the same time that 6in nails were driven into the tyres of her car.

But the danger will be over soon, Mrs Goldberg says, because Bill Clinton is now irretrievably ruined. The moment he went out and gave that speech ( JTF - Aug 17 one? ) , he swallowed his strontium-90. It rots you from inside, slowly. It may take weeks, it may take months, but you might as well pack your bags because there's nothing you can do to stop it.

Unlike the US media, which beg for crumbs of gossip outside her grand, rambling apartment on the Upper West Side, she knows what Mr Clinton actually did with Monica Lewinsky in the Oval Office. It's psychologically shocking more than anything else. It's the cruelty of what he was doing to Monica, the torture of a girl with low self-esteem who wasn't strong enough to tell him to jump in the lake, she said.

When the American public hears these tapes, it will be the final straw that brings home what this whole story is about: abuse of power. The tapes: 20 hours of X-rated pornography recorded on C90 Radio Shack cassettes by a cheap, voice-activated tape-machine. They are her own special contribution to the history of the late 20th century.

Leave aside all the kinky sex, which I don't want to talk about. Here is this 22-year-old girl calling Clinton 'that bastard', 'that son of a bitch', she says. The tapes make it explicit that Betty Currie, the President's elderly black secretary, was used as a cover for the affair and knew she was being used. On one occasion she was trapped in a bathroom until late at night because she could not get out without disturbing the President and Miss Lewinsky at work.

If political intelligence is not on tape, Mrs Goldberg learned long ago, it can always be discounted. So, when her friend Linda Tripp told her last autumn that a young colleague at the Defence Department was confiding details of an affair with the President and asking her to participate in an increasingly dangerous cover-up, Mrs Goldberg instructed her in the arts of political espionage. Nobody quite knows who owns the copyright on the tapes, which makes it difficult for Mrs Goldberg to respond to gargantuan offers of money, like the latest $6 million ( £3.6 million ) package for world rights that is being explored by a British news corporation.

We may end up giving it all away, she said. Our main motive is just to get the stuff out. We'll post it on the Internet if necessary, first we're waiting to see what Judge [Kenneth] Starr does in his report.

For her part in the taping, Ms Tripp has been vilified as a scheming betrayer of trust. Friends don't tape friends for book deals, runs the stock line. It drives Mrs Goldberg to paroxysms of indignation. Friends don't ask friends to commit felonies, do they? she thunders. The press has got this whole thing wrong. It was never about a book deal. Linda came to me because the President's girlfriend was asking her to testify falsely. That's a crime, and that's when I told her to get a tape-recorder for her own protection.

For four years Ms Tripp had witnessed crimes and abuse of power before speaking out. We're the vast Right-wing conspiracy: two middle-aged broads who got angry and said enough's enough, said Mrs Goldberg. If the only thing we can get him on is sex, fine. You take what you can get.

Mr Clinton's great mistake was to hang on for seven months, lying through his teeth. When we got him on Lewinsky last January, he should have admitted everything, harvested his high polls and walked into the sunset.

But he didn't.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 07:42
sharefin (The Blind Leading the Blind: The Collapse of Governments' Data Exchange) ID#284255:
-
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2550
State governments share information by computer with other states and the U.S. government. The larger the number of exchanges, the more likely a system will suffer disruptions.

What this means is that the states will suffer major communications breakdowns in 2000. There is no way out, no possible plan of action that will avoid this. The ability of governments to gain control over their citizens by gaining access to computerized information about them will end on Jan. 1, 2000.

The states' bureaucracies will then be effectively blind.

A massive, worldwide decentralization will take place. The nation state is not going to survive intact. The question is: Will the regional jurisdictions known as states survive? The information contained in tis report indicates that they will not -- at least not with anything like today's power.

This was published by the General Accounting Office of the U.S. Congress. Year 2000 Computing Crisis: Actions Needed on Electronic Data Exchanges ( Letter Report, 07/01/98, GAO/AIMD-98-124 ) .
-----------------------------
Interconnectivity.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 07:35
sharefin (JTF) ID#284255:
-
Better make sure you stockpile some petrol for your Xmas sojourn.

I would presume that by mid next year, that the Gov't will start to ration oil and petrol etc.

When the full reality of oil/gas production breakdowns becomes apparent.
Then they will start to control the distribution of these products.

They will want to have full tanks at the expense of the populance.
Same with food etc.

Note the comments from this site:
http://hometown.aol.com/keninga/index.htm
He had several members who had for two weeks  been unable tried to reach their dehydrated food distributor because the phone was busy. The leader drove to the production plant where everyone was in a panic. They had received the largest order in the plant's history. The order was from the whitehouse!  

In August 1998 on of my book distributors told me their dehydrated food source said their newest and most frequent customers are congressmen. And we are told all is ok? P.S. My dehydrated food source now has a 12 waiting list - Some people are starting to prepare.

Now I am told by a recent book buyer from Wisconsin who owns a hardware store that they recently had a new account opened by the Bayfield County Federal Emergency Management Govenment. My buyer said, I know about FEMA ( Federal Emergency Management Agency ) but not this one. When I asked what the account applicant did, he said, 'during an emergency this agency was to enforce curfews and to control citizens from entering and leaving local towns. Now I wonder, could this be prepartation for martial law in case things go bad next year?
------------
I can't guarantee the truthfulness of this report but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
----------------------------
316,862 Reasons Why the Federal Reserve Won't Make It
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2552

There is a 10.4% likelihood of catastrophic failure for any organization with over 1,000 external connections. It is only 0.5% for 50 connections, 1.1% for 100, 5.4% for 500.

The Federal Reserve System, the most important of all central banks, has 316,862.

-------------------
316,862 systems puts the failure rate at 316% approx give or take a couple of system crashes.

Got gold, grub and guns plus gas and generators?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 06:58
jims (Miro and 401Ks) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I envy your opportunity to invest your 401K over a wider group of funds and particularly in Energy and Gold. It also interests me that very few other posters have mentioned this subject and the options they have for their investments in that arena.

I'm curious that your energy and gold funds are only up 20% in the last week. Must be up alot more since 8/31/98 but down pretty good since the beginning of this year or April 7th if you were invested since then in those sectors.

Most companies don't wnat their employees fiddling around in the market or devoitng much of their time to it for that matter. Good conservative growth funds have been and thus should be the place to be, by their logic. While the market was going up and the resource sectors down I was content with the situation. Saved me much money not being invested in the metal mining sector this last 12 months. The relatively small money I was loosing in golds away for my retirement money was more than being made up for by contirbutions and appreciation in the traditional equity funds. Twelve months and longer going out I think, as your recent perfomrance indicates, I'd do better in energy and golds than invested entirely in a money market fund where all my 401 equity has been in since 7/20/98. But as this last year's perfomrance indicates one better be pretty much on one's toes with these sector funds; they can be pretty volitile. Straight lines end up being broken at some point and after the denial is past and the panic sets in often selling is done at pitifully low prices.

There will be many sad stories to tell about how retirerment money was lost by hard working honest people who followed the wisdom of the street and weren't sophisticated enough, or encouraged to be, to know better than think they could make money in the stock market.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 05:22
JTF (It was Kathleen Willey's cat!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: More about WJC from WorldNetDaily

According to Lucianne Goldberg, WJC will have to be forcefully extracted from the WhiteHouse when the time comes. I don't think WJC cares one bit about the trauma he is causing the American people. Do you think he cares about what the US stock market does? AG and RR will have their hands full, IMHO.

I think someone will offer a deal to WJC fairly soon -- resignation 'with some honor left' or 'all out war' in the court of public opinion. WJC is not stupid, but it will be out of character for him to resign. His shady supporters might do something drastic ( as they have in the past ) if he is no longer an asset to their interests. Just imagine how much money a shady insider group would make selling the market short, if they knew to the day when WJC would leave the Whitehouse -- horizontal or vertical.

xttp://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000271261842766&rtmo=

pSlUb4Me&atmo=ttttttyd&pg=/et/98/8/27/wcli127.html

Please splice above url together, and replace xttp: with http:

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 05:05
Roebear (panda, your 22:37) ID#412172:
is understood. Last week caught me flat footed and up to my neck in black gold, which was not bad, except it caught me without a significant position in gold stocks. Knew gold would have some good days, but not enough dry powder....so it goes. I will, if you don't mind, be watching over the shoulders of you and Earl as you watch this together ( VBG ) . Will be watching for those price points with great intrest.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 05:01
JTF (Thanks for all the great posts on Y2k!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
sharefin: I do not know why the Brits are being more rational about y2k preparations than the Americans or Europeans. It could be in part due to the realization that the Europeans have too far to go, so they will acknowledge the problem publically. Also -- the UK has gone through more humbling introspection over the years.

In the US, we are seemingly in better shape because we are upgrading our small computer systems very frequently. But -- not the mainframes, such as the ones the air traffic controllers use. And, not the embedded chips, which may have y2k non-conpliant code in them, even when there is no reason for them to have it. Someone needs to do an inventory of all the embedded chips, and which ones are not y2k compliant. These chips are cheap, but I doubt that any manufacturer really wants to be bothered making what may be nearly one-of-a-kind.

I think the problem in the US is that our media are now almost totally controlled by a small number of corporations that basically do whatever the 'liberal' spin doctors tell them to do. These spin doctors have decided that they will ignore certain crisis related things in the US, despite the fact that other kinds of shallow sensationalist journalism is acceptable. Eg, too much public news emphasis on crimes, violence, etc., and not constructive things that happen at the grass roots in the US everyday. Also, members of our federal government have become jaded and complacent over the years, as the typical bureaucrat knows that their job is secure in almost any situation except the one that our President now is embroiled in. I wonder what they would do if they found that their own government would not be able to pay them, come y2k. I don't think the ignoring of the y2k problem is intentional -- just compacency.

I fly to Toronto every Christmas to be with family. When we go Dec 25, 1999, we will drive. In a 20 year old four wheel drive with no known y2k dependent components. I will check on availability of gasoline, and the status of the highways before I go. Hope the net is still up so I can. Probably will be partially at least, but with a ban on y2k non-compliant nodes. The speed of the nodes used for the Kenneth Starr release is a ver promising sign that adaptability still does exist somewhere in our government.

Hope you have sold your house, and I hope you have worked out appropriate security measures for your assets when you are mobile.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:51
grant (I guess I've never noticed,do the ads rotate) ID#433422:


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:51
Envy (Options Question) ID#219363:
Could someone explain the different between an options contract against a stock index and an options contract against a futures contract for a stock index ? Which derivative offers the most leverage ? The most liquidity ?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:50
CPO@AU (All take a look at BBC on line on the starr report) ID#329186:
the link is too long however it is very revealing to read the comments from the USA & rest of the world.
With the odd exception the comments are related to sex and the clowns right to a private life yuk and one even says if the starr report cannot come up with more poor show............so far can see only one that use the word criminal. my comment not yet up and probably won't be
dump the prez
go gold



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:49
grant (Hey, what happened to the Mountie ad?) ID#433422:


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:39
Miro (@403K and Fidelity gold/energy) ID#347457:
Sorry, make it +20%, I just checked ;- )

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:36
Miro (@jims and Tantalos on 401K) ID#347457:
Well guys, I consider myself lucky. My 403K let us put money into enery, gold, pretty much all of the Fidelity select funds, and change it at next trading hour. At this time, most of my money is in energy services and PM funds. +15% within last two weeks.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:27
JTF ('DIRT', Clinton support or lack of it) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mozel: Do you have any comments about this software? Anyone with e-mail activity seems to be fair game to unscrupulous snoops. Also -- this software is likely to go to the highest bidder -- not just to honest law officials. This could be the replacement for the outmoded 'Clipper' program.

My problem is this -- most of us who post on Kitco could be considered a threat to certain groups in our government. It matters little that most of us Americans are loyal supporters of America, and supporters of members of our government who believe that we need to return the the concepts set forward by our founding fathers.

How do we ensure that we are not subject to a 'DIRT' attack? Encrypt everything on the hard disk, and use one computer exclusively for e-mail?

mole: My wife was a Clinton supporter for years, because he has done good things for women's rights, among other things. I just rolled my eyes. But now she has changed her mind. It is now no longer possible to ignore the seamy side of WJC, and character does matter. Now she reads the stuff most Kitcoites read.

I think the best way of putting this is that the official actions of an individual in public office are not sufficient proof that this person can be trusted always to do the right thing for the American people.

We must have a president who has integrity in public and private lives, as that is the best indicator that he/she will do the right thing when the chips are down. A 99 44/100% pure charismatic politician with no substance behind the public facade cannot be trusted during a crisis when Presidential actions are crucial.

You should think about out great presidents, and then think about WJC. Character matters, even in the decadent 90's.

There is one other matter which you should think about, which is even more disturbing than anything else about WJC. Ever see the Clinton Chronicles? Could be propaganda, but you should still see it. You read pro-Clinton propaganda every day. Which is more likely to be true with what we know now about WJC? I don't think WJC is a murderer, but it is pretty clear that he has shady supporters that are. He does what they tell him to do. Even admitted it about a week ago. Doesn't it bother you that Kathleen Willey's children were threatened when she decided to come forward about her problems with WJC? Do you really respect anyone who bullies anyone who stands in his way? As I recall, someone killed Kathleen Willey's cat, and left a threatening message. If the WJC supporters decide one day that you are a threat, you or someone you love could be next.

Character does matter. It is like the Catholic who goes to Church every Sunday to confess his sins during the week -- adultery, or worse. Since he confesses every week, all is forgiven and he can continue being a bad boy. Who would you want as your neighbor? The honest, devout Catholic who lives a good honest life 24 hours a day, or one that does so only on

Sunday when he confesses? What about the litter of former Clinton supporters who have fallen over the years to protect him? How will his current 'supporters' act during a crisis, knowing they are expendable?


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:27
Miro (@Mole re Clinton) ID#347457:
Mole, you may be a good student of history, however, you are a poor judge of character. Clinton did not do anything for any group because he cared. His only motive is does it help me to improve my public image.

It really shows the caring person when one can talk to you on a phone while receiving a blow job. Documented in Star's report based on testimony, visitors and phone logs showing a time sequence of events.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:26
sharefin (British Openly Prepare for Y2K Martial Law) ID#284255:
-
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2553
TROOPS may be on the streets in the year 2000 under emergency Home Office plans to maintain vital services which could be crippled by the millennium computer bug.

Armed forces will be on standby to help councils and police provide disaster relief if key infrastructures such as hospitals, water supplies and roads are hit by the electronic change.

The Home Office confirmed yesterday that local authorities are being encouraged to draw up contingency plans to deal with the nightmare scenario of failed traffic lights, disabled water pumping stations, fuel shortages and other disrupted services.
---------------------------
Last week it was NZ - slowly awareness spreads.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:25
Nicodemus (Hello LGB, Mole, all: Please consider that Klinton is not all that special, Guys like him really are) ID#335379:
Copyright © 1998 Nicodemus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
a dime a dozen. He is just in the white house/fishbowl.

Mole Sir: While I can agree that Klinto has emulated compassion to the seemingly disenfranchised of our nation, It seems to me that he has sold them all down the river through CREATING race issues and class issues that don't exsist.
He is a master at feeling your pain speaches that make many think he is for them.
HE gave a speach where he claimed he remembered racial church burnings in his youth in Arkansas. It turns out that there were NO church burnings at all in Arkansas
during his child hood at all. The guy just makes stuf up. And the disenfranchised buy it. Meenwhile he is working hard to make sure that all are equal by making us all poorer through the further intervention and control of taxation and big government. His general tenant is that people have to much freedom and need to be controlled. All people, he does not give a care about ANYONE. Race and class relations were doing far better before Klinton arrived on the seen to identify almost every news story and slice of life as prejudice. He is devicive, always tring to create strife to which he offers more FED regulation as the solution.
How about apeeling to people to just go easier on each other? Or to think a bit
before acting? No, we need the FED to direct all human afairs! What a crock!
I mean crook. THe best thing the Klinton era has done is strongly discredit the thinking of others like himself! Not to be taken as a jab at Dems or Libs. They have many valid points. Big Government is not one of them!
Nicodemus


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:21
jims (Tantalos) ID#252391:
Got your messeage about trying to change 401K plans rto include energy and golds. You were more faithful to your pledge of action than I was. Frankly, I rather suspected the answer you got and assume my anser will be the same. I'm going to need to contact my 401K plan this week and will ask the question about adding gold and energy sector funds to the group of funds allowed for investment. I suspect the same answer you got and figure if ever was successful in making a change gold would be closer to $500. MOre next week.

Do it yourself seems the way.,

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:19
messy79 (Seattle?) ID#293184:
I moved out of Seattle 1/2 year ago to a rural area. Sorry about your not being able to sell your house,Sharefin

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:12
grant (Any of you guys seen The Postman?) ID#433422:
-

It's an interesting post apocolypse flick, has some intrigueing twists and concepts.
When I speak with those around me about the current economic situation,, it seems like they all believe we're always on the brink of the big recovery, that a further slide downward is impossible.
They strongly disagree with my position that we are on the brink of a major fiat collapse.
They ask, How can you be happy in your anticipation of an economic collapse?. I find it very difficult to explain to them that greenbacks and other fiats are not the economy, only the vehicle of value trade, and that is what is coming apart. When the fiats lose their luster,perhaps the PMs will regain theirs.Not only will I make a profit, but I will also rejoice that the corrupt fiat systems are gone, replaced by an honest and ancient system of value trading.
Unfortunately, the aforementioned transition is very likely to be accompanied by substantial social instability. Social instability is nothing new, but for this generation, it is the stuff of history books. My generation ( I'm 36 ) has never experienced a severe shakeup of any kind, and we have no frame of reference in which to imagine something akin to the Great Depression. Even my parents, in their sixties, were kids during WW2, the last real major social event brought on by a major fiat collapse.
There are few, if any, folks in a position of power that have any experience with situations like we find ourselves in today.
This is why my ( overly substantial ) time reading this site is so valuable to me ( and my family ) . Prevailing opinion here is rooted in history and solid thought. Here is a perspective that is shared by a small percentage of the general population, but holds the distinction of posessing a high percentage of accuracy. The concepts gained here will save my family from the impending economic and social turmoil. The people here have allowed me to leave the flock.
I am eternally gratefull.
gb

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:03
Envy (Bottom Line) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So to followup on my last post - the bottom line is that this President is supposed to be leading the country into the next century, leading the way into the future with some sort of plan, getting stuff done, helping to build trade relations, addressing economic and social problems, etc, etc. But instead, the President is walking across the television screen apologizing his butt off, pansy-ass'n around prayer services, defending his sexual exploits, etc, etc, and to me, that ain't being effective as a leader. Like I said, there isn't any blame to be placed anywhere. Every President has his or her enemies, you just have to deal with it and find a way to lead the country anyway.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 04:03
SlingShot (@kuston) ID#105111:
Don't know if you've thought of this or not, but the greatest value of a shotgun that it gives you the ability to waste your opponent without having to be concerned about accidently punching holes in the neighbor.

It's biggest drawback is its inabilty to punch holes in rude strangers at 200 yards. I'd get a rifle, too.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:59
kuston (thanks for the comments) ID#273227:
Thanks everyone - other then the auto-misfiring my research was pretty good. It hard to speculate on the future value of a shotgun, but from what I've learned - this one is a good bet. Hopefully like my PMs I'll never need it.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:55
mozel (@The President we have and what Congress has coined for money) ID#153102:
consort well together.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:54
sharefin (Who lives in Seattle) ID#284255:
-
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2555
How bad are U.S. international airports? Beyond rapair.

This forthright testimony was presented by the Commissioner of the Port of Seattle.

1. Sea-Tac Airport began its y2k project in in 1993.

2. It has now finished assessment ( 93% of the project to go ) .

3. It is ahead of most other U.S. airports.

4. Everything in the airport is threatened.

5. She offers not even the hint of a guarantee.

This was presented to the Senate Year 2000 Committee on Septenber 11.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:51
mozel (@Missinglink) ID#153102:
A not insignificant number of people owe their government job to your existence. You should be able to get a grant to carry on your campaign. Probably, some of those who owe their employment to you are in the surveillance section.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:49
SlingShot (@mole) ID#105111:
Not sure in what way Clinton has helped the downtrodden. I have yet to detect a sincere or effective policy on any issue in this administration.

All that aside, are you saying that his crimes and abuse of power are OK because you like his policies? I would caution against that. Hitler got into power with that sort of mis-applied logic. Americans should ALWAYS punish abuse of power on the part of their presidents. It shows 'em who's boss.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:37
Envy (Presidential Troubles) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just forgetting about all the specifics and getting right to the core of it - the leader of the US should certainly be able to weather any kind of political storm. Failing that points to problems with strategy, leadership, associates, etc. I mean, come on, in the big scheme of things, this is a small deal, and I'm amazed that someone who is supposed to be leading the country can't figure a way out of it. As far as adversity goes, this should have been a no-brainer for someone who is supposed to be planning and scheming ways for America to get a step up it's future. THAT is what bothers me, how this President ended up in the situation. You can blame it on Starr if you want, but who cares, the President of the US should have been able to out-maneuver anything that was thrown against him ( or possibly 'her' some day down the road ) . I think a different President would have handled this whole thing with an entirely different set of tactics, and they certainly wouldn't have landed him where this President is right now. There isn't any blame to be laid anywhere. Nobody would have sympathy for a CEO of a large company when their profits dropped off if they said it was because one of our competitors is attacking us. The response to the CEO would be So, get over it. Nobody gives a rat's butt about excuses, we want to see the bottom line, at least, I do.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:37
mole (highrise and slingshot re clinton) ID#350145:
Copyright © 1998 mole/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
i am not an apologist for clinton! i have a different perception. i am a prety good student of history,which is replete with pain and suffering caused by evil people who are foul an indifferent to human suffering. i am a blond haired german who is sympathetic to any downtrodden group. why do you think women and the african americans have circled the wagons around this man? because they know he cared about them. people usually know who their friends are and their enemies are. this man has done more for the downtrodden then the last three persidents put together. and in the big picture that is pretty important!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:30
SlingShot (@James) ID#105111:
Copyright © 1998 SlingShot/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Was recently up in Juneau ( Alaska ) and heard that the local Tlinget Indians didn't value gold at all until the Russians showed up. The only use they had found for gold was making bullets .....

Fact of the matter is, possession of gold will be worthless if civilization collapses. Old saying goes every society is only four meals away from a revolution. These are remarkable times we live in. I don't know what the result will be, but it should be interesting to see how it all works out. There's an old Arab curse, though ... May you live in interesting times. We've been cursed.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:25
James (And if the Russian situation is'nt bad enough, the neo nazis are poised) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
to win some seats in the German election. This is truly the winter of discontent for 100s of millions. IMO, we are facing the most dangerous
times since the Korean War. Global strife will be wider spread & more incendiary than even the most apocalytic scenarios that were postulated.
I never believed that the POG would ever get to some of the incredible prices forecasted here, but now I have no idea what the limit could be.

We are facing a complete breakdown in the financial mkts as well as political turmoil in already unstable Countries & even if we own lots of bullion & it goes to 10,000 oz, will we even survive, let alone profit?

To sleep perchance without a nightmare.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:24
SlingShot (@ Envy) ID#105111:
For a political leader, I would include Statesmanship, too. But Integrity will always top my list.

Mole: where you at, buddy? You provoked this circus, you should make SOME effort at rebuttal. I'm willing to listen.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:18
Envy (@Slingshot) ID#219363:
Agreed: Integrity is very important - it's the quality that allows for free flow of cooperation between people, it's the essense of trust. I'd put vision, charisma, etc, up there as prime candidates for the most important quality in a leader as well.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:14
SlingShot (More on Clinton) ID#105111:
Copyright © 1998 SlingShot/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Normally I would say that we should all restrain ourselves, since the Starr report is all based on uncontested testimony and that Clinton should be given a break until he has had a chance to cross examine his accusers as our tradtions guarantee.

But he already gotten on national television and admitted that the affair he had been denying for several months had indeed taken place. And his weaselly quibble about how his under-oath denials weren't really perjury since the definition of sex for the purpose of the Paula Jones trial required that he touch her in a sexual way .... what a lack of integrity!

The Marine Corps Officer's Handbook ( and many other handbooks for similar jobs in the U.S. Military ) list integrity as the first and most necessary attribute of leadership.

This joker ain't got ANY.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:14
sharefin (Washington's 3-Ring Circus vs. Y2K Repair Efforts: And the Winner Is. . . .) ID#284255:
-
http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2564

Let the circus begin! In the center ring, an embattled President stands, whip in hand, in a cage full of wild animals that had previously been made docile by a steady diet of pork. But they have been inflamed by the scent of blood. In the left ring, 187 reporters sit in densely packed cubicles. They are wearing headphones, listening to Linda Tripp's tapes and typing up detailed summaries, each page with an automatic header: 'I know this has nothing to do with perjury, but. . . .' In the ring on your right, Newt Gingrich sits alone, reading the U.S. Constitution, highlighting over and over the section on presidential succession.

Any y2k optimist who thinks y2k can grab the public's attention now is suffering from y2k dementia.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:06
James (The situation in Russia is far grimmer than most could imagine. Widespread ) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
starvation & with the Russian winter rapidly approaching, the real possibility of thousands freezing to death. With the communists back in control they will blame all this deprivation on the U.S. capitalists & one way or another extort many more billions. How many serviceable nukes do they have left?

From todays Sunday Times:




Old and poor despair as hunger sweeps country

by Chloe Arnold
Kaliningrad





SUICIDE seemed the only way out to Antonina Kotvitskaya. The 61-year-old pensioner was just managing to survive Russia's economic turmoil by selling suitcases and shoes in the market in the western Russian enclave of Kaliningrad. Then, last week, her son lost his job as a construction engineer at a shipbuilding factory.

The family of five - the grandmother, her son, his wife and their two children - were reduced to living off Kotvitskaya's meagre pension and the money her daughter-in-law earns from cleaning at the local school. It came to just 720 roubles a month - £72 before the rouble collapsed three weeks ago, but now closer to £25.

Last Tuesday Kotvitskaya tried to drown herself by jumping off a bridge in the centre of Kaliningrad and was saved by a passing stranger. We cannot afford bread any more, she said. I'm just an extra mouth to feed.

Leonid Gorbenko, the governor of Kaliningrad, declared a state of emergency in the region last week. Cut off from the rest of Russia by Lithuania and Belarus, the grim former Prussian city of Königsberg has always imported the majority of its food and fuel. But since the Russian currency nose-dived, the 30m roubles set aside for heating fuel this winter have lost almost two-thirds of their value.

We have only enough fuel to heat the region for a month, Gorbenko warned last week. After that, it is not clear how we're going to pay for the next shipment.

Kaliningrad's food supply is dwindling by the day as imports are cut back. The price of the little that remains has jumped as much as 10 times. Nobody can afford these prices, said an assistant at a store selling Polish imports. This supermarket has turned into a museum.

Petrol prices have tripled. Usually it takes a good half-hour to cross the city at rush hour, said Gennady Frolov, a taxi driver, who has lost most of his business since devaluation. Now I can do it in 10 minutes.

Exasperated motorists and striking police - the entire force has walked out, owed two months' back pay - are still less of a threat, however, than the 25,000 sailors of the Baltic fleet, many of whom have not seen a pay packet since May.

Many of Kaliningrad's pensioners have been forced to go back to work. Valeria Bulyanenkova, 68, collects empty bottles for a beer company. I have to collect 100 bottles a day to qualify for 250 roubles [£12] a month, she said. Mostly I find them, but if I've only got 80 I have to rummage through the dustbins. I have sold my rings and I have stopped eating meat, she added between sobs. But I still cannot survive.

The situation in the surrounding area is even more pitiful. A workers' dormitory at Prebrezhny, eight miles from Kaliningrad, was deserted one afternoon last week as the residents combed the woods for mushrooms and berries. Even more disturbing was the absence of the traditional Russian stench of congealed meat, rotting potato peelings and boiled cabbage.

You cannot smell food because there is no food, said Valentina Pizzhorova, who shares a single room in the dormitory with her husband and daughter. The whole building is full of the smell of hunger.

Nine time zones and more than 4,000 miles to the east in Vladivostok, on the Pacific coast, paramedics who have not been paid for 18 months are on strike, leaving the port city with only four ambulances. Doctors are said to have fainted from hunger and the hot water has been switched off for days at a time.

Things are little better even in Moscow, where life has always been easier than in the provinces. Stanislav Popov, the chief physician at the Shchyolkovskaya Central hospital, the largest surgical establishment in the region, has instructed his doctors to carry out only emergency surgery.

I have already stopped paying staff to buy the few medicines I can afford, said Popov. Unless we get some help we'll close within a month.

Additional reporting: Mark Franchetti, Moscow
















Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 03:04
Envy (Sigh, Clinton Clinton Clinton) ID#219363:
I promised myself I wouldn't do this, but I'll comment. For those who say all of this doesn't matter - his shoe size doesn't matter, so nobody cares about it. If nobody cared about this stuff, then it damn well wouldn't be all over the television 24-7. Just ask yourself this - would you want the guy as the head of your family ? Leading your business into the next century ? Sitting on city council where you live ? If the answer is yes you would, then awesome, let's quit talking about it. If the answer is no you wouldn't, then Houston, we've got a problem.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:59
HighRise (Mole) ID#401460:

Correction, Clinton is not stupid he is very intelligent. He is Sick, others here have described his illnesses better than I.

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:55
HighRise (Nice Guy) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Mole forget the consenting adults part, it is not relevant to the legality of the situation and the Presidents very poor judgment.

1 ) It started with the the President lying under oath in the Paula Jones case, I remind you she was not a consenting adult.

2 ) Monica was an Intern / or very junior employee of the US Government, the President was her superior. He used his position to take advantage of her. Like she is going to give just any 50 year old, in his office, a Blow Job.

3 ) He used government employees to cover up his lies.

4 ) He lied to the American People.

5 ) It appears that he has committed 11 impeachable crimes.

And it goes on and on! I guarantee you that if Reagan or Johnson had been caught in a similar situation they would have nailed them. Clinton is arrogant, stupid, and has always felt he is above the law. And he will probably get out of this situation just as he has all of the others. And in the process it will cost the tax payers another 50 million.

Please read earlier posts, by others, who have stated the situation very well.

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:55
SlingShot (@ mole) ID#105111:
Copyright © 1998 SlingShot/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I keep hearing this same story from Clinton apologists, and you happened to ding me when I felt like articulating a response:

1. It's not about adultery. This all would still be wrong, even if Clinton were single.

2. I don't care who Clinton has sex with, as long as it's not rape … and it's not a subordinate. What was unethical about having sex with Monica was that she was an underling under his power. If I have sex with a subordinate, even if she threw herself at me, my boss would fire me. Simple reason: it would be bad for the company. The staff is and should be off limits. But the most we can do is classify this conduct as unethical. It does not come under the heading of criminal. I do consider it evidence that the man is not responsible enough to be president, but this is a democracy and he was elected, so I can live with it. Having sex with an intern is not an impeachable offense, and no one is seriously suggesting it is.

3. HOWEVER, he was a defendant in a civil case ( that we can all now see he brought on himself ) and lied under oath about the affair. That IS impeachable. For crying out loud, the President is the boss law enforcer in the nation and if anyone can and must set an example it should be him. Instead he purposely mislead the Paula Jones jury, and solely for the purpose of covering his ass.

4. Clinton apologists can talk about how his sex life is his own business all they want, but it's just smoke screen and the rest of us can see through it. This isn't about sex, it's about perjury. The witness intimidation indictment is in the works, if the rumors are true. When a member of Clinton's staff is indicted for witness intimidation, perhaps his most die-hard apologists will begin to see what this is really all about. Just because the media has this obsession with the sex part of the whole mess doesn't mean that that is what his detractors are upset about. It's the lying and abuse of power that has to be punished, lest we lose what's left of our free society.

That's my take on it, anyway.



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:43
Envy (Next Week: More Uncertainty) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Still reeling from a nasty correction that sent U.S. stocks spiraling in August, investors will also be paying close attention to troubling events roiling Russia, Asia and the emerging markets. Making matters more complicated, the market will get buffeted by earnings warnings in the days ahead. Dow component Walt Disney Co. ( DIS ) announced on Friday, after the market's close, that its earnings would fall as much as six cents below expectations for the fourth quarter.

http://cnnfn.com/quickenonfn/investing/9809/11/q_lookahead/

Disney Warns for 4th Q. All is not well in the Magic Kingdom.

http://cnnfn.com/hotstories/companies/9809/11/disney/

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:34
ERLE (@cherokee) ID#190411:
There are some fine shotguns in Arizona, owned by gentlemen that have passed on. Around Wickenburg, you will see many fine trap guns that haven't an owner. Hundreds less than in the chilly midwest.
I am utterly convinced after this weekend that your calls on Au will do well for you.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:34
HighRise (Tokyo markets keeping eye on Clinton) ID#401460:

The yen is also seen continuing its firmness from the uncertainty surrounding U.S. and the flight from dollars.

``The current mood is to quickly repatriate funds which had been put in the United States, so it's a situation where it's easy for the market to react to factors bullish for the yen,'' said one senior dealer at Bankers Trust in Tokyo.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980913/b.html

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:33
mole (a different perception - at the risk of being burned alive) ID#350145:
Copyright © 1998 mole/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
i am very interested in metals information, and in the short time i have been visiting this web i have learned a great deal. thank you. but it does look like i am all alone in my feelings about clinton. so, at the risk of my being drawn and quartered for having a different opinion - to me, it was two consenting adults: she went to the whitehouse to get her presidential kneepads and she got them. it seems like a victory for them both. a politically`motivated prosecutor ( can you really look me in the eye and tell me he is totally objective ) and raw meat for republicans. seems this is simple blood sport and a chance to pick up seats in the congress. believe it or not even though i hold these heretical ideas i am a pretty nice guy.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:32
Selby (TheMissingLink) ID#286230:
Tells you something when a currency with 5.5 trillion of debt is valued more than gold. Tells you all you have to know really.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:24
TheMissingLink (Cherokee) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If any small portion of the $90 trillion in global financial assets seeks a safe haven in gold, $400 is nothing. Imagine what gold would be revalued at if even $1 trillion went into the small gold market.

There must be many billionaires around the globe smart enough to be seeking a safe haven somewhere besides the $US which is not pegged to anything besides the $5.5 trillion debt backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government ( or the U.S. taxpayer under threat of the IRS agent ) OR the ability of the U.S. mint to print our way out of this debt.

What is there, about a billion ounces of gold in the world? That is about 31,000 tonnes at 32,000 ounces per ton. At $300/oz this is a $300 billion market. Add $1 trillion and you get $900/oz. Wheeeeee! Confiscation? Damn!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:21
ERLE (@cherokee) ID#190411:
-
My favorite is the dopes on the tv shows that use two hands clenched tightly to fire a 9mm pistole.
Heck, you could chop the stock on a Mini 14 and have a decent one hander.
Colt Combat Commander works ok too.
Colt GOLD Cup is a choice that I haven't seen mentioned.
S+W .38 spl 8 bbl says no to the predator class.

To the fence post gang, goldstocks are going to give you no time to get aboard.
I'll defer to cherokee, and his pals as to how to position your butts on the goldtrain. Most seats have been sold, but there a few in the vista-car that will give a panoramic view of the imminent currency collapse.
Rally goldbugs, buy dips, if they exist.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:18
Selby (Hungarian Tuna Hoarders) ID#286230:
If the folks of the mid US are arming themselves against their neighbours and filling their storm cellars with more tuna and flour --imagine what the middle Europeans are thinking. They have millions of angry and almost starving nuclear armed Russians on their doorstep and with no ocean between them. I wonder what they think of the fascination with Bill and Monica?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:16
sharefin (CPO@AU) ID#284255:
-
Love to have a look.
Email me at
sharefin@cairns.net.au

---------------
EJ
Have you heard more back from your friend
How's the status now?

---------------
Date: Sat Jun 20 1998 17:42
EJ ( Y2K Baseline Report ) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Have a friend who works for a company that sells Y2K bug-fix software for mainframes. The company has 97% market share. Although he's been with this company for a couple of years, he's been selling these products for only six weeks, so his exposure is limted to date. Here's his assessment so far. But first, a few Y2K bug definitions:

A bugs: if not fixed, the company cannot operate
B bugs: if not fixed, the company can operate but at significantly decreased efficiency. If not fixed within a reasonable period, the company to fail
C bugs: if not fixed, the company can operate at somewhat decreased efficiency. Fixes not urgent.

In terms of frequency and work effort required to fix, bug types have the following distribution:
A bugs 10%
B bugs 20%
C bugs 70%

My friend feels that by the end of next year, Y2K bug fix efforts relative to mainframe software will yield the following results:

A bugs: 90% completed
B bugs: 10% completed
C bugs: 5% completed

Let's see how his assessment changes as he gets more experience.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:16
Envy (Crash Index) ID#219363:
The Pitbull U.S. Stock Market Crash Index dropped to -8 on Friday the 11th, down from -6 the week before. Dunno anything about how this puppy works or what exactly it means - the original poster of the index to this forum just said -10 was significant.

http://www.wwfn.com/crashupdate.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:10
TheMissingLink (Jaws hanging wide open) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think the tidal shift in Americans perception of MouthicaGate will be watching the White House conduct it's business as if nothing is happening. It is just bizarre to watch the president act as if nothing is going on while his sex life has just been laid wide open.

His ability to compartmentalize, when viewed from our vantage point of knowing what is going through his mind appears sociopathic. To see him smiling, ignoring, gladhanding, etc shakes me. Day by day his apologies have been in direct response to the previous evenings punditry. Appear more sure, contrite, include Monica, stop apologizing.

He stands for nothing. He is a perfect representative of the people as he leads by poll. What is his motivation?

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:09
Envy (Insignificant) ID#219363:
I bet Hungary is really upset that they didn't even get a mention on any of the market shows on Friday - their market dropped to 4278.62, down 542.05. Yep, that's -11.24%, you read it right. I guess who the hell cares about Hungary's financial problems anyway. Oh, but I bet it becomes more pressing when Germany gets affected as a result.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:08
cherokee () ID#288231:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

lgb...

it does not matter who rallies behind the liar erectus disgracius....
the damage done....the ground swell generated...only washing upon
the shores of the west will stop its' forward motion.....

the policies and pressures applied over the last 150 years have created
a common law of physics to be forced upon the taskmasters.......the west
has subjugated the resource rich regions of the world for the enrichment
of the few at the expense of the many.....the many have many debts to
repay....ancestral blood was spilled to fuel the engine of the west...and the west STILL manipulates and CONTROLS its' minions.....
not for long.....

name the fronts.....
consider each one on its' own deleterious merits....ther are many..

BOOM! just that fast...oil @ $25 then $50bbl.....gold @ $400 in a flash
due to chaos and flux.....iran in afghanistan.....pakistan.....india....
kosovo...arabia......iraq....syria....libya...

dec '99 crude oil 2300 calls are $110......mmmmmmmmmmmmmm....mmmmmm..mmm.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:08
POLARBEAR (my gun votes) ID#183109:
Best small carry: Glock 19 w/ hydrashocks
Best big bore: .44 mag Desert Eagle w/ tritium night sights.
And as many have said, its hard to beat a 12 gauge for home defense, and when someone is looking down the wrong end of a shotgun, hopefully this will be enough to convince them to see things your way. Make sure if you buy a new toy you try it out with several boxes of ammo before you actually need it. And a friendly reminder, keep you guns secured so kids can't get at them.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 02:03
Envy (@gwyz__A) ID#219363:
Welcome Gregg, pull up a chair, make yourself at home.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:56
TheMissingLink (MOZEL) ID#373403:
You think they may be watching me? I have been butting heads with the DoD over their cleanup standards at a closing Army base in my town. Here is a comprehensive article about it/me.

http://www.shepherd-express.com/shepherd/19/37/headlines/cover_story.html

Steve

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:51
cherokee (@....here-a-pop--there-a-pop-----everywhere-a-a-pop-pop------) ID#288231:

9mm won't hardly penetrate the door of a car....
just piss off the person it scratches inside....
gol-darned pop-corn machines....

41, 44, 45 mgm 10mm desert eagle...pistols.

or

12ga. slug gun...rifled shotgun shooting 1-1/2 patterns
@ 100yds.......300gr copper sabot slugs.....
this sucker will GO THROUGH both doors of a car
and keep on truckin.....

better keep the pop-corn poppers popping-corn.....
9mm indeed! harummmmppppppphhhhh!!

cherokee..shooting-arrows-at-the-moon....

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:46
BUGal (@Cherokee) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is one of my fears. That Clinton's complete credibility destruction, so richly deserved, will lead to a well timed attack on our exposed underbelly.

However, keep one counterpoint in mind. This Clinton has already demonstrated that he won't hesitate to expend men and arms against U.S. enemies if he believes he can gain a political advantage.

Cornered rat that he now is, he becomes a VERY dangerous animal indeed, in spite of his military hating, draft dodging past. I think the terrorists of the world will smell this danger and refrain from giving him an excuse. After all...what American wouldn't rally around thier President if an attack was made on U.S. citizens? I hate to be THIS cynical...I've always been ANTI conspiracy freak......but in Clinton's case, it would not surprise me AT ALL...if he set up some of our own citizens somehow for a terrorist act, allowing his to take reprisals.

At the very least, the U.S. has lost the world's most important bully pulpit, when it comes to foreign policy and economic clout. The most important leadership position in the world.....during a time of world economic crises, squandered away by a lying, fraudulent, Buffoon.

Sad.....

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:42
DBog (Scum Bag) ID#267298:
-
Different polls seem to be giving different results. I suppose this
is understandable if one considers who is cunducting the poll,
what question ( s ) are asked, who exactly is being polled, etc.
In any event I think one can say generally speaking the polls
are collectively reporting the American Public to be just about
evenly split on the question of impeachment.

Lets think about this for a moment. If my assessment is correct
then we are effectively saying the people are divided. Take this
one step further and one can conclude that the President of the
United States of America is dividing the populace, the very people
that elected him to office into two very different camps.

This, from a man who has so often uttered words to the effect
of working for the American people or Doing what is best for
the American people.

What a total absolute scam. Doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of
what he himself says he subscribes to.

If he had ANY concern whatsoever for THE AMERICAN PEOPLE,
he would resign. His present stance only goes to prove what a
SCUM BAG he is.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:38
BUGal (@ Weighing in on Guns of choice) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since it's the weekend and all, and this is always a topic on Sunday's....

My piece of choice is a Ruger P85 9mm. I prefer accuracy, speed, and comfort to knowckdown power. Also have a S&W 38 that I've taught my wife to shoot, and the obligatory 12 guage. And then there's my great great grandfather's single shot .22!

I'm not a guns, grub, and gold nut...but do believe in a certain level of independence when it comes to personal and family defense / emergency situation training. I would hope the situation would allow us to be able to share the grub, rather than the bullets if the day ever comes.

But I would never let the loved ones be threatened without stepping in with a vigorous defense.

LGB

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:32
BUGal (@Miro.... Kitco is such an excellent collection of minds) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Miro, I appreciated your comments to me earlier re my Clinton rants. As you know, I've not been one of those chatting him up much here in the past....he's ALWAYS made me sick though. Generally I try and remain somewhat satirical and tongue in cheek when making harsh criticims but this Clinton truly makes my blood boil like few can.

One of the things I appreciate about Kitco, is that it is not composed of the average idiotic man on the street mindset. There is a collective brilliance here that doesn't tolerate fraud for long. I Notice that virtually everyone here has Clinton pegged as the phony he is. Few people here are fooled by this worthless straming lump called CLinton.

I've seen no one here parrot the phony media line about how Clinton is such a Good president and doing a good job other than his little indiscretions. ( What he's done for us completely escapes me......the only good legislation that's been passed is what Congress has rammed down his throat.....no bad jokes to follow... )

Something about a total fraud running the country, a buffoon of world class proportations, is what gets me riled. If there was even a grain of sincerity in the man, he wouldn;t be so hard to take. Truly a world class liar, is Bill and his longsuffering....Bill just told me about it wife.

It's not about sex. It's about being a liar and the father of lies. Re Paula/Monica/gennifer/Kathleen et al times 10 to the 70th....He could have said long ago, It's no one's business but my own..... or he could have copped to it. Either way, we wouldn't be talkign about it. Unfiortunately though, this is just symptomatic of a much bigger Clinton character issue.

Clinton... the guy who wanted to leave some kind of legacy..will always be remembered as the joke that he is. Karma is his.... he will reap what he has sown.



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:30
Selby (Bingo ) ID#286230:
Copyright © 1998 Selby/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I don't know whether I would call myself seasoned but I have been following the price of gold since the late '70's. My view is that gold has been treated as a commodity for at least the last $150. I believe -- as I have been saying for over 20 months-- that gold will go about $25 below its estimated average cost of production and that about that price it will bottom-- as long as it is being treated as a commodity.

When I first thought this through gold about $385 -the best guess was that gold cost about $275 ( 1996-7 ) - gold got to about $3 from that figure -and therefore gold would get to about $250. Lots of flak on this prediction of course.
Now it looks like the average cost per oz is estimated at $250. The one unshakeable fact seems to be that nobody knows what the average cost is. I can not see that gold will get much below its cost of production for very long as most gold miners are very dynamic and on top of their situation. I do not know of any time that gold traded below its estimated cost of production in the last 25 years but as I say no one knows what that is at any give time.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:28
cherokee (@....cannon.fodder........) ID#288231:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

....and the band plays on........the.temptations....

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

will the wannabees wait for the resolution of klinton's
problems to make their move? hell no....any day....any minute...
they know the time is now.....our flank is wide open...
the only question is when and how.....

remember the tet offensive? the chaos that consumed the areas
targeted? this same scenario is fixing to be played-out in
the palaces of ibn saud....flames in the middle east with-in
6 months.....the limb.......and options for company.......


cherokee!; ) ..building.wealth.the.old.fashioned.way...from.war!

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:28
oris (Bingo) ID#238422:
Your question is not tricky. It's some kind of an
economic law that commodity will not stay below the
cost of production for long...The question how high
it will go from there....I would guess that it is
normal for gold to be valued at 30-35% premium over the cost
of production, means around $370..$380. Any deviation from
this number is the market influence...


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:22
Squirrel (two moft Famous Englifh Pyrats, Purfer, and Clinton) ID#280214:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/5213/true01.htm

Pardon the endless ads, but it looks to be a fun read.
For a little philosophy and theology in a quaint form.

Now, of two famous Pirats I am to frame my difcourfe, Pufer, and Clinton; whose irregular & illegall lives, as they were notorioufly famous, to their deaths and ends were as remarkably infamous.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:22
mole (some tips for beginners - just trying to help) ID#350145:
Copyright © 1998 mole/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1 ) subscribe to the northern miner ( 416 ) -442-2164 your first need is fundamental information. 2 ) buy a copy of the canadian mines handbook ( put out by the northern miner 3 ) there are web sites that provide information on companies 4 ) virtually all canadian mining stocks are oversold. 5 ) buy value i.e. companies that have money, reserves and good managment. 6 ) buy districts ( e.g. carlin ) 7 ) do not trade too much, swing for the fence and 8 ) buy many companies, because you never know for sure who is going to hit and pull that big hole. 9 ) buy a lot of some and a little of others ( some stocks are long shots, but if they hit! ( i have less of these, others are sort of safe in the long run and i have more of these. last, remember there will be ups and downs so take some profit and play it as safe as you can. i think we have a great run ahead of us. good luck to us all

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:19
BUGal (@ Gusto Oro...SSC) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
just catching up..to answer your question, yes, I'm long SSC. Been churning blaocks oh shares between 5/8 and 11/16...day trades..but now that it may be climbing to a new trading range I will likely raise it a notch to 3/4 to 13/16.

Meanwhile, I have a black of shares at 3/4 that I'm not going to trade at all, because in the long run I believe we'll see $3.00 on this stock. Many here have made an excellent case for PAASF, and SSRIF as being better value stocks for silver, and I agree...however, when silver soars, SSC seems to be one of the biggest beneficiearies as it was when the Buffet news came out.

Being known as the popular NA silver play, by the majority of brokers, has it's advantages when the sheep start piling in, yes?

LGB

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:14
Oak (test) ID#240241:
tst

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:13
mozel (@In Case You Didn't Know) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
here is another powerful tool for surreptitiously intercepting data, but it is only available to law enforcement and the military. Called DIRT ( Data Interception and Remote Transmission ) , it was released in June by Codex Data Systems. Investigators need only know your e-mail address to secretly install the program. Once they do, investigators can read your documents, view your images, download your files and intercept your encryption keys. DIRT was developed to assist law enforcement in pedophilia investigations, but future uses could include drug investigations, money laundering cases and information warfare.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:03
cherokee (@...houston......) ID#288231:

meal from soy....opportunity or just squiggly lines on cellulose?

http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/ts_cha82.gif

this sucker HAS to pass this way back to the top of the mountain......
gtc's will catch it.....and it will see the alpine meadows....again.

cherokee....mind.racing...with.the.past.....to.get.to.the.future...

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 01:01
Bingo (Any other respondents to my question?) ID#263254:
A question to all seasoned gold followers...
When, at any time has the price of gold ever gone below mining production costs and remained so for a long time, that is, several months?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Miles...thanks for yours.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:53
cherokee (@.......listening.to.the.silent.talker........) ID#288231:

the us$.....

http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/ts_cha66.gif

where to now, saint peter..show me which road i'm on.....
which road i'm on......elton john.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:42
HighRise (Presidential Behavior and Blackmail) ID#401460:

No one in the media has mentioned the blackmail vulnerability of the President.
Of course he does have the FBI files to protect himself.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/e-mail/98.e-mail.html

T1 thanks for the URL

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:36
cherokee (@....the.controls.of.the.ssm.......looking.back....seeing.forward......) ID#288231:

the golden one.....not looking very weak to me...

http://www.digisys.net/futures/chart/ts_cha22.gif

...chaos and flux....guarantors of gold's re-surgence........
as it has ALWAYS been.....

!; ) ......

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:28
HighRise (Instead of I it's WE ?) ID#401460:

``We cannot lose sight of our primary mission, which is to work for the American people,'' he said. ``We must stay focused on your business.'' Bill Clinton

Who is the we that must stay focused?

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:25
tolerant1 (Just a thought folks...a pretty darn good one at that...) ID#373284:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/rockwell/980911.excom_abolish_thepr.html

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:22
Tantalus (Shadowfax - up she may go, but down she will certainly go.) ID#370236:
Sorry WJC. I meant nothing by that remark, if I ever said it.
If the world was flat, and we were in China, she would actually
be going up while she was going down. So she couldn't have - right?

Or does wrong = right when your upside down?
I'll have to leave it to the pundits. G'nite all.


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:15
oris (kuston) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I would say do not try to look very fancy, get
proven Remington 870 3Magnum ( or one of it's modifications
produced by the other companies ) . It is very reliable
gun, pump-action, and if you practice with it for a couple
of weeks, you can make 5 aimed shots in 5 seconds.
Semi-auto 12 gauge is sensative to different ammo, and may
let you down w/o warning...870 is also much cheaper...
My Rem 870 never jamed or misfired through at least 7,000
rounds of all brands of ammo. I would also say it's the
best mass-produced shotgun of the world.



Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:15
Earl (Panda:) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sorry for the tardy response. Just got back from a lovely day on a mountain lake with the family.

Let's hope that yer accursed channel is broken to the upside soon. Friday did not end as a good representative of shooting star. It moved back up in time to save the bar. A good shooting star should have a wide range and a solid body much less than half of the bar's range. First week of April is more representative. BTW, it would only indicate a change in trend. Not necessarily a downtrend. .... Although what else would one expect from gold? ....... Yes? And yes, we will watch these things together.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:14
HighRise (SDer This Is The LINK) ID#401460:

It appears to be that indeed!

The World Bank and the IMF are using a Gold Standard! Right?
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/pam/pam45/APPENDIX/API.htm

HighRise

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:13
EJ (Finally read the Starr Report this a.m.) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My wife found me doubled up laughing over this morning's paper. So at a party Monica goes up to a president who's obviously getting no intimacy from his wife, lifts up her shirt and says, Come and get 'em, big boy. Clinton, being the dope his is, does.

After reading stories about the LBJ's psychotic breaks, JFK's nude midnight swims in the White House pool with hookers, Nixon's wild drinking bindges, WJC's sexual activities are remarkable in their banality.

I feel that Clinton's big mistake was the mea culpa. A stronger and more respect worthy response to the accusation of sexual misconduct is, Yah, so what? You knew this about me when you hired me. Piss off.

Alas, Clinton's real weakness is that in his heart of hearts, he does not think he deserves respect for being who his is, so he is always trying to be someone else. Constantly changing positions, apologising, trying to get everyone to like him, and pissing everyone off in the process.

-EJ

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:06
Shadowfax (Calling on Greenie and Bobby.....and up she goes!!) ID#290281:
Copyright © 1998 Shadowfax/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Greenspan, Rubin to testify on global economy



WASHINGTON, Sept 11 ( Reuters ) - Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and Treasury

Secretary Robert Rubin will testify on the state of the global economy before the Banking

Committee of the House of Representatives on Sept. 16., a committee spokesman said on Friday.



The hearing had originally been scheduled for Tuesday, but was moved to accommodate Rubin's

schedule, he added.



The two are scheduled to appear before the panel at 1 p.m. EDT ( 1700 GMT

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/980911/4r.html






Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:06
TheMissingLink (They all do it) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is a poor reason to avoid prosecuting wrong doing. Flush all politicians who take illegal campaign contributions, dont let one off because they all do it.

Perjury about sex is perjury. What if you were falsely accused of a crime and your accuser perjured themself about something which could favor your case. Maybe they lied about getting caught lying in the past. Who wouldn't lie about something as embarrassing as getting caught lying? Is this worthy of felony perjury charges? You bet, it is evidence which would have helped you obtain justice.

Clinton's White House obtained 900 FBI files of political opponents. That the FBI keeps files on law abiding private citizens is questionable but they SURE AS H*LL ought to be able to protect their confidentiality! Where is the prosecution of the FBI?

Clinton/Gore took foreign money and appear to have repaid the favor in a breech of national security by allowing sensitive sattelite technology to be transfered to those same foreign powers.

If this perjury matter is the only thing we can get Clinton on then I view it the same as Al Capone finally being jailed for income tax evasion. We know he did worse but justice is where you can get it.

Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:05
HepMeMoney_Hmm (chfhk?) ID#404124:
Copyright © 1998 HepMeMoney_Hmm/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dear Friend,

No one knows Where gold goes.Some say up - some say down.

No one knows Why it is below 300.Some say deflation - some say manipulation.

No one knows Who decided it should be here.Some say Europe - some say USA.

No one knows What Gold is anyway.Some say money - others say commodity.

No one knows When Bull will start agian.Some say it's over - others just starting.

So there you have the 5Ws of the this Gold market.My advice ---- buy a Gold coin.

Sit there and flip it for a couple of days.If it comes up heads more than tails -- buy.

If it comes up tails more than heads -- sell or stand aside.You will be as accurate as most in your decisions,and still have a nice Gold coin.Good luck.I'm serious.: )


Date: Sun Sep 13 1998 00:04
HighRise (Is the Bull Market Over) ID#401460:

http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/980913/business_m_1.html

HighRise

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