Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:58
EJ (gagnrad) ID#45173:
A bull market interprets layoffs as good for the market because the bull expects growth and layoffs are disinflationary. However, a bear market inteprets layoffs as a symptom of recession.

In this context, Greenspan's remarks can be taken either way. A bear hears that a recession is in the offing. A bull hears that a strong economy will be sustained. The reaction of the markets to Greenspan suggests we're still in a predominantly bull market. But, the quick retreat by Asia tonight suggests that the markets have a bull heart but a bear head.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:53
TheMissingLink (Greenspan comments) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 TheMissingLink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Moreover, it is just not credible that the United States can remain an oasis of prosperity unaffected by a world that is experiencing greatly increased stress. Developments overseas have contributed to holding down prices and aggregate demand in the United States in the face of strong domestic spending. As dislocations abroad mount, feeding back on our financial markets, restraint is likely to intensify. In the spring and early summer, the Federal Open Market Committee was concerned that a rise in inflation was the primary threat to the continued expansion of the economy. By the time of the Committee's August meeting, the risks had become balanced, and the Committee will need to consider carefully the potential ramifications of ongoing developments since that meeting.

What I find incredulous is that the market should rally on this comment. To parse a rate cut from this comment means that the analysts accept that the cut would be in response to the United States being dragged down by global financial and economic crisis. Its not like the rate cut is to add liquidity to a starved market, rather it is to counterbalance growing deflationary trends which have gripped 2/3 of the global economy.

To rally on this is very selective interpretation of what is presented.

In addition, Greenspan says the risks are BALANCED. For the market to assume a rate cut means an assumption that recession will indeed grip our economy. The economic aspects of a deflationary recession would FAR OUTWEIGH the benefits of added liquidity to the financial market. Baby boomers are following an old script regarding interest rate cuts and are hoping against all hope for another 20% gain in their NYSE savings account.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:52
Earl (The Hatt:) ID#227238:
I do believe yer being a little unkind to EB. Near as I can tell, his opinions have not been dramatically removed from real market action. Whether they remain in that form, only time will tell. In the meantime, there is no reason to beat him over his cyber head. Even though he has, on far too many occasions, called our baby ugly. ...... OTOH, an excess of goldbug enthusiasm has not been worth a pitcher of warm spit either.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:48
HighRise (ASIA) ID#401460:

Here we go again!


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:47
tolerant1 (Squirrel, Namaste' if you see this...give chas a call in the morning...his system is) ID#373284:
down and my email message to you kept getting bounced back...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:46
AZAU (RJ) ID#247273:
No disrespect...but you are a financial earthworm.
Feed lower than the bottom....
you will of course become castings yourself.
What worth do you really have?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:46
EJ (World economy falters! Greenspan speaks, saves the day! Perhaps only one?) ID#45173:
And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming... declining world markets.

Over dinner tonight with Germans, Dutch, Americans, and Brazilians. Discuss the porpoising DOW. All agree without the slightest hesitation: last chance to G-E-T O-U-T!


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:44
sharefin (Envy) ID#284255:
A sucker's born every minute.
And there's lots in the markets now.

Yes, I question the circumstances.
And do not believe that it will last long at all.

Reminds me of my talking dirty post of last friday
The Last Orgasmic Thrust
Before the bull rolls over and goes to sleep.

Volatility as never before.

Many thanks. T'is truer than most can see.
Dad enjoyed muchly so and waxed lyrically.
He has written a few along similiar lines.

Spirit moved
The Word
Rippled infinity
Created space

The Word
Primal atom
Channelled energy

The Word
Partitioned eternity
Formed time, aeons,
And precious moments

The Word
Matched atoms with time
Framed galaxies
Cosmic mysteries

The Word
Decreed Sun, Moon
The morning Star
And lovely Earth

The Word
Seeded land sea and sky
Provisioned all
And peopled earth

Spirit with Word
Still dreaming
And contemplates the Work

Spirit with Word
A glory brighter than our Sun
Ponders new mysteries
Work not yet begun

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:44
tolerant1 (style...they just gave McGuire) ID#373284:
a 62 Cardinal Red Corvette as a huh...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:42
RJ (..... Allen USA .....) ID#411259:

Yes we were right all the way down.

Remember, I trade both side of the market. I'll be just as right on the upside. The stops are in, well below $300. Shorts cannot hurt me. when I get an indication that gold will rise, I buy the hell out of gold. Why does everybody assume that the current gold bears will be hurt? Its called trading. Close one position, open another. Either direction, no matter where it goes, as long as it does not go sideways, yes?


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:35
RJ (I know it only baseball but) ID#411259:

Did anybody see the pride
In MacGuire's kid's face
As dad ran into home?
Makes all the hype worth it, yes?


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:30
HighRise (Dave in CO (@The Hatt RE: EB) ID#401460:

Just because he likes Baseball? Get a life!


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:30
messy79 (Allen) ID#293184:
My personal notes as a lurker, dated 5/98, has EB as one of the 5 smart ones on this board.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:29
Selby (Hattman) ID#286230:
Your ABX story has been posted on SI Barrick. Nobody seems to able to make head or tale of it. Maybe you should mosey over and clarify the matter for them.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:24
Dave in CO (@Allen) ID#229141:
But he told us today he is now and forever a long-term investor in equities. His father, grandfather, and great grandfather told him to.

You don't think he would betray his heritage to invest in PMs, do you?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:23
copperfoot (Question #1) ID#270123:
New here. Great forum. It is certainly beneficient of Kitco to provide this.

Question #1: I have read on other gold sites that the Euro is to be backed by gold. ( A few days ago someone on this forum said a 15% backing. How do you back it 15%? )

Who said? Where are they getting this idea?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:22
HighRise (Derivatives loss only 15 Billion Yen) ID#401460:
TOKYO, Sept 9 ( Reuters ) - Fuji Bank said on Wednesday it saw a maximum possible loss from its derivatives trading of about 15 billion yen.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:20
gagnrad (Sharefin re AG's speech URL) ID#43460:
This is a repost of my 13:26 post of the URL to the controversial speech. Its still up for grabs exactly what he means.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:20
AZAU (Bill) ID#247273:
Perhaps we should ask them to mine it from their derriere's,
same place all our gold investments have gone......imho

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:19
sharefin (Swing chart updated) ID#284255:

Is it a bull?
no, a bear
no, it's a bull
no, your'e wrong, it's a bear
No, you don't know what you're talking about, it's a bull again, can't you see.

uh, huh, lets wait and see what it's really going to do after this rally.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:19
Rack (Tantalus-as to gold not dropping on a huge Dow rally) ID#411163:
I saw on MSNBC's gold prices that gold dropped but the coin prices were up. Something seems to have changed. Also lots of talk here on coin dealers not having any coin stocks

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:18
Dave in CO (@The Hatt RE: EB) ID#229141:
You read my mind.

BTW, this lurker would like to hear more from you. Thanks.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:15
BillinOregon (U.S.A. Daily gold report) ID#262242:
In what has to be some of the most important gold news we have seen in a while,

the London Evening Telegraph quoted gold analysts as saying funds have been

caught short gold, possibly up to 1000 tons due to recovery in the gold price, and

may be force to buy back more. This short-covering is seen triggering a massive

gold price rise. To give you an idea of the relative important of this statement,

annual mine production is on the order of 2000 tons! Where is this gold going to

come from?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:14
Allen(USA) (Hatt) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Knock it off, OK? EB is part of the Kitco ambience. Without him, RJ and LGB reminding us of our failures we would be to self contented. They have been the winners here so far. They have the right to question and provoke. Besides if you run EB off, then what fun would that be? We need the abuse. Alot of folks have made alot more money to date doing what they do rather then what many here have done.

So hang loose, dude. EB is rich and will be famous for being one of the few to jump ship into the metals just at the right time. Then he will be even richer and more successful. Count on it.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:07
HighRise (AU) ID#401460:

Financial Report
Closed out heir hedge position, etc.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:07
Envy (@Sharefin) ID#219363:
Re: your post about 54 days after the high and the crash of 87. Following is a URL that shows the days around the crash of 87, and the pattern is eerie to me. I wouldn't be long right now for anything ( well, maybe something worth more than I would stand to lose ) . If this is a rally, it'll have to be more convincing than this for my money.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:06
MM (Pressing the envelope) ID#350282:
The date is June 12, 2005.
Taiwan's bold political activities cahllenge the power of mainland China.
With an angry dragon's fury, China's response is swift and deadly.
*But they don't stop there*.
With Russia destabilized and coming apart, the Chinese decide to go for resource-rich Siberia.
Suddenly, China is up against a Western Alliance of 19 nations.

But, fear not - it was only a strategic simulation advance-sale publicity ; )

I always have three predictions for any market:
It will go up.
It will go down.
It will cease to be.
Caveat - two of these will always be wrong...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03
Allen(USA) (DA) ID#255190:
I suggest we prepare for 'ugly'.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03
AZAU (As the Worm Turns) ID#247273:
Make sure that the coming days bring you opportunity.
and that we all have the courage to pull the trigger when,
and only when, the moment is right!
My personal gold stocks were up 10% today. What more signal does one need or want? CAUTION. Whites of their eyes. Aye!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03
Silverthorn (Charles Keeling - P.S.) ID#247309:
Copyright © 1998 Silverthorn/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good advice on setting up far away company. But amyone considering this must be aware that certain taxing authorities have set up traps for the unwary. For example, the Infernal Revenue Code requires the payment of a 25% tax on the appreciated value of any asset transferred offshore. So for example stock that has appreciated since purchase either gets taxed on transfer, or more likely, sets the stage for an ugly scene in the event of an audit.
A second problem is how the ownership of the company is held. Find a tax haven that permits bearer stock, so that no name appears. Form 1040 requires the disclosure of an interest of more than 25% in a foreign corporation. Again, failure to disclose such ownership is more dangerous than the tax pain of disclosure.
A third problem is trading stock or commodities using an offshore entity. Merrill Lynch in the US requires the offshore company to get an EIN - so much for tax haven benefit. Foreign brokerage houses that know what they are doing, do it for a reasonable price, and are able to execute when you instruct them are hard to find.
A fourth problem is figuring out where to set it up. The US gov has spent decades forcing Carribean tax havens to sign tax treaties which allow the US to force secret or open disclosure. Under US pressure the Swiss agreed years ago to open their books in the event the US gov claimed the funds represented stock fraud proceeds, and since then has expanded the list of things which are no longer protected. So, you need one that has no tax treaty.
And, it helps to know who is setting up the entity, and referrals are the best way to protect yourself.
BUT, the benefits of all this effort WE TAKE TO BE SELF-EVIDENT...

( All - sorry this was so long )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:03
The Hatt (EB/ Do you not get tired of writing pure BULL****!!!!!) ID#294232:
We are sick of reading your posts! Why not go play at SI for a while or I suppose they are tired of you too! So GO PLAY IN THE TRAFFIC! Sorry about this post everyone but i am sick and tired of this moron!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:02
sharefin (pssst wanna buy a generator? good as gold.) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:01
Tortfeasor (Home Runs) ID#37463:
It looks like the only one with more home runs this year than Mark MacGwyer will be Bill Clinton batting next to the Oval Office. Interesting day with 62 home runs and the DOW setting a one day record. I think the baseball record will continue to accumulate. If you think the other will continue up for much longer I fear that you are in slumberland. All things considered gold was kind of firm today; better than I had feared. Maybe tomorrow the move up will continue.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 23:01
sharefin (Gagnrad - have a look here.) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:58
sharefin (Oldman) ID#284255:
oleman . .
looks like topx will be back in a few days at this rate. He told me on
Saturday that he thought we would see a FIFTY ( 50 ) handle up crash today!!
Honest. I'm glad I bought the futures yesterday morning on that first
pullback. That might just allow me to accumulate the shorts I want in
stocks. The question now is whether we reverse tomorrow. or go all the way
to the 200 MA and puke on Thursday, IMO.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:57
sharefin (J Stack) ID#284255:
INVESTECH FINANCIAL UPDATE: Tuesday, September 8, 1998
Seldom have so few words had so much impact. A copy of Greenspan's actual
speech is available from the Federal Reserve's Internet web site... and you
REALLY have to stretch your imagination to see any implied imminent rate
cut. What's more, any odds of that rate cut went down substantially after
today's exuberance. On the weekend update, we said don't be surprised by
another BIG rally attempt. After all, the market was coming off of one of
the most oversold levels in recent years; and short-term indicators were
DEEP in rally territory. The question is - what now?
We see too equally divergent psychologies out there right now. From a
technical standpoint, the critical 7500 level held on Friday and today's
rally saw an 11:1 ratio of advancing volume over declining volume. That
likely means the first downleg of the bear market is over. But exuberance
has not been tempered, margin debt has not been reduced, historic valuation
has not been restored ( not even close ) , and there's virtually no improvement
in breadth or leadership. To us, that means the bear market is not over. And
the other important psychology that we could soon see is from those who
would give anything to get out at levels of a couple months ago.
This rally should carry over into the next day or two. The key questions are
whether breadth broadens ( that is, our Breadth Disparity Indexes move up ) ...
whether the number of new lows ( downside leadership ) declines to less than
50 stocks... and whether small-caps outperform blue chips. Those are the
characteristics of a stronger intermediate bottom that could have some
lasting ability.
Bottomline, don't read more into this than into the wild gyrations of the
past week. This is exactly why we didn't add to short positions yet. This
appears to be a bear market rally off oversold extremes -- and we'll wait
for indicators to convince us otherwise.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:55
sharefin (Email chatter) ID#284255:
DOW JONES STUDY 1921 to 1998

YEAR VALUE years total gain gain/year
1921 75
1929 375 8 400% 50
1932 45 3 -88% -29
1937 175 5 289% 58
1942 90 5 -49% -10
1946 230 4 156% 39
1949 175 3 -24% -8
1965 1000 16 471% 29
1966 740 1 -26% -26
1972 1050 6 42% 7
1974 550 2 -48% -24
1976 1050 2 91% 45
1982 782 6 -26% -4
1987 2600 5 232% 46
1988 1750 1 -33% -33
1998 9000 10 414% 41

Great Bull Markets 1924-29 and 1982-87
( 1 ) Both bull markets lasted 21 quarters
( 2 ) Each hit it's peak in 3rd quarter
( 3 ) Sep 3, 1929
( 4 ) Aug 25, 1987
( 5 ) Both had crash 54 days after peak
( 6 ) The crash stripped more then 20% from the averages
( 7 ) Now how about today's bull market
( 8 ) Peak July 20, 1998
( 9 ) And of course 54 days equals....SEP 10, 1998
( 10 ) But cycles never repeat...Hey ! Hey !

Source..Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis dated Nov 1987

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:54
HighRise (Rubin's Firm Doing Just Fine) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

It helps when you have a man on the inside.

Goldman's Paulson and Corzine told employees the firm had not made an announcement on trading losses because, ``frankly there was nothing to say,'' according to one New York source.

``The third quarter is going to be not as high as the first two quarters,'' the source said the executives told employees. ``But ( Corzine and Paulson ) said they were 'more than pleased' with the performance in the third quarter.''

``Market uncertainty and volatility are a fact of life, which somebody in our business should certainly understand,'' Goldman's Paulson said in the conference call, according to the source. Referring to bullish forecasts by the firm's influential market analyst, Abby Cohen, Paulson said he though the stock market would recover in the short term, the source said.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:48
MM (1 Trillion FRN ($US) for Y2K Litigation... Hmmm) ID#350282:
Year 2000 Bug Likely to Infest Courtrooms

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:48
copperfoot (@envy You Preach Brother!!!) ID#270123:
Although I must say that I like to hear from the detractors too, ( as long as it's civil ) , it helps build perspective.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:48
gagnrad (Aussie re your Indian post) ID#43460:
Would you mind posting the URL for that report? I've been trying to collect news sources and this looks like a good one. Thanks! ( %-^} )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:47
Lurker 777 (Studio.R) ID#317247:
Back in 79 I worked on a old cable tool in Oakmolgee, Ok. drilling shallow wells. Have you heard of Joe Holman? He sold out some years ago and now lives in Tulsa.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:41
HighRise (HK) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hong Kong
Hang Seng

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:40
JTF (US markets bite the dust?) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Suspicious: Perhaps D.A. has an answer. My guess is that the Japanese are fed up with being under our ( fiat currency ) umbrella. If they could, they would expand trade with Europe, Southeast Asia, and South America. Come to think of it, althought we are still their biggest customer, I think much of Japanese trade pre-Oct 97 was not with us at all.

The Japanese like to think very long term -- even 100 years into the future -- for better or worse. If is very likely that they foresee a time when the US is a minor trading partner, secondary to their SEAsian partners.

If we get through our current difficulties relatively unscathed, there will probably be three large trading blocks: The Americas, the EMU, and Asia/SouthEast Asia.

My guess is that Asia/SouthEast Asia will be first to recover. Partially because they were first to falter. We are probably repeating the 1929 - 1935 era, albeit imperfectly. Those that fell first, recovered first.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:36
HighRise (Japan) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

IMHO, Japan will come out on top! They are loaded with cash and US $ and US Bonds. Their people are hurting right now but the Government is finacially strong compared to any other country in the world. Just look at their trade balance with the rest of the World.

The US is being forced to fund all of the IMF bailout programs. The US has been printing money like crazy, Japan is now pulling the plug.
Just look at the repetitive news postings the last week. They all sound very confrontational.

Read Japan's comments on reports of AG's rate decrease, they say no rate decrease. They can only say this if they know that US Bond rates are going to have to go up.

Just a thought or two. Probably not worth much.



Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:34
Suspicious (I think we'll see this week end ) ID#287312:
DOWN for the equities.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:32
Aussie (India Gold demand up) ID#250236:
Copyright © 1998 Aussie/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Click here

Front page headlines
Top News Summary

McGwire Hits 62nd, Breaking Record
U.S. Stocks Post Biggest Point Gains
Starr Rejects Clinton Request for
Preview of Report
Reno Opens Investigation into 1996
Clinton Campaign
Embattled Clinton to Meet
Congressional Allies
Swissair Crash Probe Suggests Electrical
McVeigh Loses His Oklahoma City
Bombing Appeal
Yeltsin Ponders Choice for Russia PM
Study: U.S. Alzheimer's Cases May
More Than Triple
IRS Relents on McGwire Baseball Fury

Personalize Headline news

Choose another news section:

Personalized news
Personalized news:

Personalize news
Instructions & examples?

Full story
Indians sink savings into gold as economy
08:22 a.m. Sep 08, 1998 Eastern

By Sabyasachi Mitra

BOMBAY, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Economic uncertainty is
driving Indians to their old love -- gold -- but the
romance is damaging the nation's sputtering economy,
analysts said on Tuesday.

The trade deficit has widened, draining currency
reserves, and stashing funds in an unproductive asset is
hindering investment in an economy desperate to regain
momentum, they said.

Data for the first two months of 1998/99 ( April/March )
show that gold and silver imports soared to $1.11 billion
from $139 million in the same period a year earlier.

``This sharp increase in gold and silver imports at a time
when gold prices are falling internationally, shows the
desperation of Indian households to protect their assets
from continuous erosion,'' Anindya Chatterjee, head of
markets research at ANZ Investment bank, said in a

World Gold Council ( WGC ) data shows that from
January to July, India imported 384 tonnes of gold via
official channels, up from from 273 tonnes in the same
period a year earlier.

The jump in gold imports has pushed up overall imports
and widened the trade deficit, analysts said.

Rajan Govil, economist at HSBC Securities, said
non-petroleum, oil and lubricant imports, excluding gold,
between October 1997 and May 1998 grew by 5.5
percent on a year earlier.

But including gold, the rise was around 14 percent, he

``Definitely gold is a major culprit,'' Govil said.

The trade deficit in April-July rose to $3.3 billion from
$1.8 billion a year earlier.

``Widening of the trade deficit in financial year 1998/99
is largely explained by the increase in gold imports,
which is equivalent to a flight of capital,'' Chatterjee said.

Analysts said a widening trade deficit would undermine
the rupee, which has already lost over six percent of its
value against the dollar in the wake of India's nuclear
tests in May.

India's demand for gold jumped by 33 percent to 458.2
tonnes in the first two quarters of calendar 1997, the
WGC said in its latest report.

Gold prices on the Bombay Bullion Exchange stood at
4,200 rupees ( $98.84 ) per 10 grammes on Monday,
marginally firmer than the 4,170 rupees it fetched six
months ago.

International prices have fallen from around $309 an
ounce to around $288 over the same period.

The WGC said low prices and liberalised imports
continued to underpin demand.

The Indian government last October liberalised bullion
import rules, authorising eight banks to import and sell
gold in the domestic market in addition to the three
state-run agencies.

It has since added more banks and agencies to the list.

But a head of commodity trading at a foreign bank said
the spurt in gold imports was triggered by precautionary
buying in May on anticipation of an increase in import

India raised import duties on gold to 250 rupees per 10
grams from 220 rupees in its 1998/99 budget,
announced in June. But the duty hike has not taken the
shine off gold for Indians.

Analysts said a sharp fall in exports, stagnant investment,
political instability and a fragile rupee had harmed
confidence, driving investors back to traditional safe

ANZ's Chatterjee said households were shifting their
savings from shares and debentures to bank deposits
and gold.

The Reserve Bank of India's annual report released on
Friday showed the household sector's investment in
shares and debentures as a percentage of gross financial
assets fell to 1.8 percent in 1997/98 from 7.3 percent in

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:29
Suspicious (JTF: What will happen to the Japanese market when) ID#287312:
they see their best customer's market bite the dust, US. They will know that Americans just stopped spending....and so will other markets.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:27
darkwing (EZ Believer ) ID#215249:
That should be
If you have any questions you can e-mail me at

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:25
JTF (You are the artist) ID#254321:
StudioR: Thank you.

As far as I am concerned, I only dabble in the arts. But you are a professional artist -- that is much more. Perhaps someday you can tell us which profession is your favorite - the one that probably puts most of the food on your table -- or your musical profession.

At work I find those individuals who have more than their day job have much richer, more interesting, fulfilling lives. Good release, too.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23
Marshall ( ON Nexxt Stumble of DOW expect WAR on metals to Start) ID#293211:
Copyright © 1998 Marshall/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

interests will soon dump huge amounts of gold on the market to
artificially deflate its value.
When the price of gold declines while paper declines people
lose confidence in its ability to protect them from financial
ruin, and sell their gold in an attempt to control losses. This
is a strategy employed by those in power who's goal is to
strip the gold from public hands... a major goal of Marxist
socialists who must eliminate the middle class. Wise men
and women will buy and buy and buy gold and silver
whenever the opportunity of falling prices will permit.
When paper fails, as all historical precedent tells us will
happen, gold will rule the market and the economy. Those
who possess gold and silver will be the survivors and the
controllers of that crisis.
Stock Ticker

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23
HighRise (The Consortium) ID#401460:

5 Satellites in Place

Who all is part of the consortium?
Boeing, Motorolla.....who else?


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23
Envy (In Defense) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Regarding numerous postings this evening meant to chastise the folks calling for a market tank ( Peutz, Cheesehead, Blooper, et al ) . I'm interested in what these people have to say. I'm also interested in what the folks who say just the opposite post. I'm interested in what Gold shorts have to say, Gold bulls, Yen bulls, hell, I'm interested in just about everything that gets posted on this forum for one reason or another. Please don't chastise these folks in an attempt to keep them from posting their opinions - they all have at least one reader, me. That doesn't mean I think they're right, but I'm still very interested in what everyone here has to say and resent any efforts to censor them through peer pressure. And in Peutz's defense specifically - I suspect that if someone had traded with his strategy ( September crash ) , they wouldn't be feeling any pain at this moment and would be quite happy with the prediction. My thought is that Peutz just puts himself too far out there on the line by calling exact days for things to happen - but I'm certainly not going to discount his prediction based on a one day 380 point rally after a 10-20 percent loss. Call me crazy. As far as I'm concerned, this thing can go either way, and I want to know what other people have to say about it.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:23
darkwing (EZ Believer ) ID#215249:
I hate that annoying AOL timer also. You can get a share program from that will stop that from happening. Once you get to the download page type in aol. Then search for KillTimer v4.8. Download it and a text file comes along with it for information on installing it.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:17
xau5 (Yen and the meeting) ID#210163:
Could the meeting between Miazawa and Rubin be because Japan is going to sell their bonds and we didnt want them to?. As you have posted before DA the fed holdings of bonds are declining.The Yen is acting very strong. The move in gold stocks was not an accident last week. Something is up and it could just be hedge fnds getting called on their gold loans. Interesting times are upon us.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:17
JTF (Is Japan bottoming?) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
D.A.: Fascinating theory about Japan. They have had 10 years of deflation, and see other economies in ruins all about them.

What you describe makes sense -- entice their foreign assets back home by strengthening the Yen, and propping up the Japanese markets long enough for the process to take hold.

I remember one of Aesop's fables. The Wind and the Sun were discussing how to get a solitary man to take off his coat.

The Wind said: 'Let me blow the coat off -- it will be easy'. But, no matter how hard the wind blew, all the man did was to hold on to the coat even tighter about his body.

The Sun said: 'This is easy.', and proceeded to gently bathe the man in warmth. Once the Wind had died down, the man eagerly took off his coat.

It seems to me that the IMF is more like the Wind -- forcing a response from markets in crisis, by raising interest rates among other things, only worsening the crisis. The Japanese may have chosen the Sun. It is fortunate that they are such good savers, and still have so much foreign wealth. Few countries ( the USA included ) are so well prepared for hard times.

It may not be long before the tables have turned again, and we look once more to Japan for investment capital.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:16
HighRise (Copper Surges) ID#401460:

CRB was up today, even with Gold down, think about it. Gold is always down when another or other commodities surge, one of these days they will have to let them go up together.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:05
STUDIO.R (@jtfO...EBasebOl has been berry good to me..........) ID#119358:
jtfO..........WoW! to your 21:51.....amazing grace. time I'm @ranchO santa fe...I'll check in or out scripTs and maybe, el jojja. hear they treat gill cancer in fish with some degree of success....whew! ohmy! dis kitco. back to my kelp ciggies.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 22:00
HighRise (Interesting View Tonight) ID#401460:

Take a look. f


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:56
D.A. (some.currency.musings) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I've yet to see a reasonable explanation as to what the Japanese gov. is up to with regards to the Yen so I have invented one. Here goes.

For some time now, many thoughtful economists have been calling on the Japanese to reliquify their economy by simply printing Yen and buying up all the government debt around. Rates will be driven to 0 if necessary, all with the idea of providing M growth and breaking the liquidity trap.

This theoretical economic fix would work just fine if ( and this is a very big if ) the Japanese were a world unto themselves. In the real world, with open investment borders, Japan is just one of many places where capital may flow to or from. What is apparent, is that the Yen printing strategy will do no more than devalue the Yen, and destroy the wealth of the country in the process.

I believe that the Japanese are quite aware of this possibility having seen what capital flight has done to their neighboring countries. They are apparently smart enough not to fall into the same trap.

Knowing that the Japanese people and their corporations hold massive amounts of overseas investments, the Japanese government is hell bent on calling that capital home. If the people can be given a reason to invest their money in Japan as opposed to US treasuries, DM stocks or Russian Rubbles, the vast savings of the Japanese can be forced into investments at home. The hope must be that this investment will kick start the moribund economy.

The best reason that the Japanese gov. can come up with for capital repatriation, is that the investments abroad do not perform as well as those at home. This is afterall ( other than a little diversification ) the only reason for the capital to head offshore in the first place.

By engineering a rally in the Nikkei and a radical reversal of the Yen, they are causing a return flight of capital. It would not be surprising to find them following the strategy of Yen printing once the capital flows have been reversed and the Yen is soaring.

On a related topic, it is interesting to see that some are now begining to question the rate hikes in Mexico, as counterproductive. Having seen the same strategy go down in flames in half a dozen countries over the last year and change, and seeing the beginings of a failure in Mexico, the powers that be are at least scratching their collective heads. Its a start.

What governments are starting to learn is that capital flows and herd mentality can run roughshod over any all barriers put in place to stop them and any economic 'fundamentals' supposedly in place. If governments can can begin thinking globally instead of locally, then there is a good chance that the recessionary impulses can be brought under control. If not, its going to get very, very ugly indeed.

Go Yen, Go Gold

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:51
JTF (We are born of cycles) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just a thought --

All life was born in a cyclic cauldron of energy --

Semi-stably shifting back and forth near critical points

in the condensation of matter.

Is it no surprise that our actions are still governed by cycles, even though we do not consciously sense them?

But -- we do observe these many cycles in the life around us --

The lunar cycles in the feeding of fish,

even when the oceans are missing and only the moon remains.

We may be capabable of independent thought, intellectual flights of fancy, creations of great brilliance --

But -- we are still creatures born of cycles.

When we learn what time really is,

we will begin to understand our cyclic essence.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:47
EB (highrise) ID#230216:
62 AWESOME! AGULP to ya Mark McGwire! GO man GO! 70! 80! GO GO GO!!! I loves Baseball...uh huh. catch Stuart Scott.......he must be butta cause he's on a roll!!
EBeaUtiful ( ! )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:43
pyramid (Warren Buffett) ID#217268:
I will believe the stock market has hit bottom and is on the rebound when I hear Warren Buffett has sold his position in silver.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:40
HighRise (Swaps, Derivatives, and GE) ID#401460:

CNBC, NBC, MSNBC, Parent Company has a big day, now you know why the market went up today. Big brother most likely initiated the move starting with ASIA

My guess is all of the other family members, AIG, Boeing, Goldman Sachs, Chase Bank Etc., were out today making a bundle today as last week, playing the markets dramatic engineeered moves........IMHO


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:39
EB (this.....this kitco......'tis truly AMAZING it's peopleos.....) ID#230216:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:42
Gianni Dioro ( Dow finishing ABC counter rally? ) ID#384350:
IMO, the Dow is making the C portion in an ABC pattern off its Sep 1 low. This rally
should finish by tomorrow morning, then it all goes downhill from there.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:48
Gianni Dioro ( Golden Prophet - I Agree ) ID#384350:
This Rally finished at the close. Them Guppies took this one a bit too far, putting in 2
days of rally into one day. When there is no follow through tomorrow, it will fade & just
get worse thru Friday.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:37
Spud Master ( Anyone want to bet on a hard fall at the close? ) ID#28586:
This market smells worse than a week old dead catfish in an East Texas roadside ditch.

I'll print this again Friday................... or you all can print it for me ;- )

In the face of a 500+pt sell off it is a market crash. In the face of an almost 400 pt rally it is STILL a CRASH! ......HUH?!?! Crazy stuff this market and it's affect on Bugs. too bad really.....

Volatility usually signals a bottom to me. Buy then I am just a plain stoooopid roadside-kill-guppy-sheep being led to the slaughter house. Kill me bullet please.

Isn't it great that I give ya'all ammo to trash me good if there really is a crash? There I AGAIN.....ALWAYS GIVIN' never takin........give give give give. I know, give me a break..............go gold.

Where is the Spyder Crazy CheeZey DuDe? And his buddy the Blooooped

btw....... ( more ammo ) . I went long the dollar today near the close for the first time in a while ( short term bottom in place ) . It is oversold and there will be a decent rally in next few days ( maybe ) . I also sold me some Dmark too ( short term top in place ) . Didn't touch that ¥en though........scares me sometimes. And I really wanted to sell gold but didn't even though every bone in my body tells me down down down from here......I wanted a bigger rally. It is NOT overbought yet and could rally a bit more.............even though our resident La Jolla Beach Boy has been calling for producer selling at 290 ( or so ) . Time is the equalizer..............EH?

Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock. The dow bug is RUNNING up the clock......the clock struck...............or stuck? eat din-din

StudioR - Mayo!? Use crisco next time...............and play a game of twister!!

go gold!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:35
small investor (GOLDEN OLDIES) ID#105143:
Copyright © 1998 small investor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold mining companies represent long term call options on Gold, silver, and other precious metals they may own. Page 46 of this weeks Barrons goes over the largest of the gold funds. What was interesting was how small their market cap. ( 308.40 million was the largest ) .

a few billion dollars could buy the whole market. The total market cap for Dell computer is only 80 billion dollars. One could take two billion and buy all the Gold funds. Even if the entire pc sales is 160 billion, your money would be better in Dell? ( think about that one for a while ) .

I dont mean to pick on Dell but a computer is like a telephone, everyone will be making them. Back to Gold, Alan Greenspan threw in the towel and told the world that the dying patient could get another pain killer.

The patient is so very ill but constantly crying for more pain killer.

I really think we may be in the eye of the Hurricane. Go outside and it is calm. Everthing is ok. Everthing is ok. Everthing is ok. everthing is ok. But our gut tells us this is different than 1987, 1990, 1993 ,1973 and 1929-1933. This is different. Only god has the script.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:31
Charles Keeling (@ The scene RE: off shore heaven) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
eland: Your 17:51

I think it can be done without the expense of the Seminar.

1. Get an off shore Corporation. Nassau or Panama is good.
Barbados is nice. You become the one and only Corporate officer,
and you take possesion of the corporate seal. Your name is not
public, and it is against the law of the offshore Country to
release the name of the owner of the Company.

2. Open a bank account, in the country you select, under the name of
the offshore Corporation. They will give you an international
credit card that is not subject to the scrutiny of the USA. Your
corporate spending is done in secret.

3. Move your cash assets & stocks & bonds to the
bank account that is held by your Corporation.

4. Assign your real estate over to the Corporation. Thereby your
Corporation owns all of your real estate holdings. Even your
vehicles can be owned by this secret Corporate structure.

5. Run your business through the Coproration.

6. Get an offshore office, or live offshore and get a USA office.
Obtain a second passport. Costa Rico can help you with this.
For a fee, so can Nassau or Panama.

Stay where you desire, but you do need to travel 2-4 times
a year in order to keep both passports.

You are now an International business man. Your offshore account is tax free. Even the interest/dividends earned on your account is tax free. You never pay taxes again to the USA. You have now turned your back on the National Debt that has been incurred by the Government of the USA. You have thumbed your nose at the income taxes that are imposed by the USA. Social Security taxes become a thing of the past. You dont't have
to concern yourself with the welfare state that is rapidly developing here in the USA.
Your new country may, or may not, impose some form of taxes after 3-5 years. If taxes are imposed, they will be realtively very, very low. You can't be sued, because you are operating under the protection of a corporate umbrella that is extremely hard to pierce.

Now----invest and deal with your counterparts, because they will ceratinly be very profitable since they to will be in a very low, or non existant, tax bracket. There are many very exclusive watering holes where you will find many famous Americans that speak your language. You may run into Suharto, some of the new Russian elite, Congressmen,
Senators, or even Bill & Hillary after they retire. Hollywood super stars are represented. You will find them lounging on their corporate yachts, or gambling in the casinos.

So kick back, have a pina colado, and enjoy ! But be sure you invest heavy in precious metals, because the dollar is going into heavy descent. Many of the heavy movers & shakers who can afford good legal advice have been doing this for years and years. Now it has reached the level of the middle class.

I am for you. Go GOLD/SILVER

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:28
Flash (Gold Equities/$Gold) ID#301318:
Interesting observation by my fund manager. The nominal price movement of gold equities to price of gold ratio is 3:1. The movement last week was 5:1!

Cherokee: Up here in the northern woods we have already unpacked the wool long johns. Last two nights the heat kicked in! Time to set sail for the S. Pacific isles. Bon voyage!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:28
EZ Believer (Kolorado.... All PM investors have taken some hits! ) ID#173262:
Copyright © 1998 EZ Believer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
PAASF has some strong following from some very smart people, like Adrian Day. Secondly, they are a producer. Certainly this separates the real companies from the wannabees. This certainly makes PAASF more attractive to institutional investors when the tide turns. However, there is a leverage factor that is missing. A quick look to the 52 week performance illustrates my point.

PAASF High 12 9/8 Aprox. 6

SSRIF High 5.63 9/8 Aprox.1

This may be simplistic, and it is only one factor; but what if both companies rise to their 52 week high? What would be the ROR in each case?

Lets look at a cash vs stock price comparison.

PAASF 23,900,000 shares 35.3 Cash = $1.47 share
per share cash to stock price 25%

SSRIF 15,321,000 shares 3.8 Cash = $.25 share
per share cash to stock price 25%

Lets assume SSRIF wins it's lawsuit

SSRIF 15,321,000 shares 6.8 Cash = $.47 share
per share cash to stock price 47%

Go ahead Teck, make my day!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:26
AZAU (JTF; Jack) ID#247273:
Copyright © 1998 AZAU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
JTF: You are certainly correct in your reservations. The only thing that really makes sense is that at least the inverse relationship of gold and gold equities to the stock market are being restored, imho.
My major concern is that it has only recently turned this way.
And further, the trend seems to be shifting slowly. I do not foresee
an instantaneous shift; there is just too much inertia the other way.
Wait and strike when you are convinced, you may lose a few $$, but still recognize the primary, larger trend. Keep up your keen observations.
Jack: Yes, the manipulation of gold price is possible; but as discussed here previously, the gold standard imposes more discipline than paper and its concomitant profligacy or looseness, as we are about to witness with His Majesty A.G.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:25
JTF (So -- Richard Feynman wrote poetry -- good poetry!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
RJ: Thank you for gracing the virtual space of Kitco with such a work of art -- from one of my favorites. One cannot learn Physics without reading the Feynman CalTech Lecture Series from beginning to end -- and then again.

I knew he loved Bongo Drums, and was a very colorful sort -- but quality poetry I did not expect.

That poem describes local entropy violation -- eddies in the space-time continuum where life eventually coalesced from the elements -- when it should not have happened according to the Second Law of thermocynamics.

Even Feynman's lecture series -- which I am looking at right now -- do not describe how life could have formed on this planet. Should not have happened.

So -- now we know that local fluctuations can occur in entropy, and order can arise from disorder -- as long as excess external energy is available -- with cyclic oscillations near a critical opalescence point.

By the way, I also have several collections of Einstein's works -- one titled Ideas and Opinions ( essays ) , and one in a book called 'The Art of Creative writing'. I have yet to come across a poem that Einstein wrote, but I expect that he did, too.

Have you noticed that mathematicians, poets and musicians have alot in common?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:24
Goldteck (Canadian consortium (Noranda Inc. Rio Algom Ltd. and Teck Corp) to decide on Peru copper mine ) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Friday, September 4, 1998 TORONTO, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - A powerful Canadian mining consortium denied on Tuesday that turmoil in international financial markets would force it to seek a delay of an impending deadline to develop the massive Antamina copper project in Peru.

  The consortium, which includes Canada's Noranda Inc. , Rio Algom Ltd. and Teck Corp. , must formally commit to developing Antamina, one of Latin America's most prized mining projects, by September 16, or forfeit its rights.

  Growing fears of a global economic downturn and its impact on stagnant metals markets had led to speculation the consortium had asked or would ask the Peruvian government to postpone the deadline and allow the companies more time to arrange Antamina's financing.

  Consortium members dismissed the rumor as unfounded.

  That's wrong. We are working to the September 16 deadline which was in the original contract and we will make an announcement by that time, said Rio Algom's Corey Copeland, a spokesman for the consortium.

  Copeland said the consortium remained positive about Antamina, but he refused to indicate whether it was close to giving the green light to the project, located about 385 kilometres northeast of Lima in the remote Peruvian Andes.

  The high-grade Antamina deposit could, if developed, become one of the world's largest copper producers. A feasibility study released in March indicated the mine could produce 600 million pounds of copper and 360 million pounds of zinc annually over a 20-year period.

  But the $2.5 billion needed to finance a mine and processing facilities has already forced one Canadian company, Inmet Mining Corp. , to bow out of the project.

  Toronto-based Inmet had planned to share Antamina with Rio Algom until earlier this year, when the project's price tag prompted nervous shareholders to lobby for the sale of Inmet's 50-percent stake.

  Toronto-based Rio Algom and Noranda now own 37.5 percent each of a partnership formed to develop Antamina. Vancouver-based Teck owns the rest.

  A decision not to go ahead with Antamina would be a crushing setback to Peru which has suffered a string of delays to major investment projects, including the withdrawal of Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell from the $3 billion Camisea natural gas project.

  Peru's economy has been hard hit by the Asian financial crisis and the impact of freak El Nino weather on the economy. The Peruvian government had counted on international investment to help it cope with a widening current account deficit.

  ( $1=$1.52 Canadian )


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:21
HighRise (A little Red appearing in Asia) ID#401460:


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:20
Highhopes (Suggestion) ID#404410:
Why doesn't everybody contact their respective Congressperson and let them know that you want a gold standard globally. I did. It's better than leaving messages to each other on this board, and yet, the government is not aware of your concern.
Don't forget that elections are coming up.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:19
Reify (Tech types & HOPEFULLS) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Reading all of the various opinions, it seems that more and more,
the posters here, have a predetermined mind set, which, if they were long
term holders, and weren't watching every move of everyday, would be
fine. However, there are pictures of moves, with information, available
to all ie.>>

that kinda tell a story, if one cares to listen, and I for one
would not interpret these as the beginning of a crash.

We have the good fortune of having a pro amongst us, and his ability
has been proven, many times, to the long term Kitcoites that have
followed his comments over the years,with the name of Oldman.

There is also amongst us another poster, who's take I haven't seen
lately,Mike Sheller, who is an astrologer, amongst his many other talents, and
who's take has been as good as, say, Arch Crawford, or Steve Puetz.
The latter seems to enjoy taking it on the chin, over and over, and
it may be he may prove right someday, probably when noone will be taking
him seriously any longer.
Still others, like DA, who lately only posts occasionally, maybe due to
the summer heat, or prior engagements, who's calls have been more correct
than many who shout daily explosive up move or crash has just started
or many other overstated comments along those lines.

Every person must do what they feel they must do, however with time being
at a premium, this reader, would enjoy more posts of substance, and the
return of many long lost posters ( the list is endless ) and less chatter
that has little relevance to what this site is intended for. Please
don't fault me for the poor grammer of the last sentence.

Keep the Faith! Buy gold and silver and platinum, on dips!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:17
Tantalus (Something today is very,very different for gold.) ID#317211:
Dow up 380 pts, yet gold spot only off US$1.20

And up US$0.60 in Asia? What's goin' on here? Spot price would have
been down $8-10 two weeks ago.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:17
STUDIO.R (@gOldbug23 y aragOrn3......) ID#119358:
Proudly we shall don the same uniforms in this overdue Revolution2. And we shall bring a great fight to the Houses of these vain governors. And in this strife, they will find themselves to be lost and their lot greatly devalued. For it must be that these polyester-clad professional talkers be stripped of their good grooming, and denied their free eatings. yes,....we stand then. salud! to YA!!! both.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:15
Gollum (McGwire hits #62) ID#43349:
8:18 pm cdt 9/8/98

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:12
HighRise (62 HOMERUNS) ID#401460:

How about that sports fans!


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:10
JTF (You are getting touchy these days! ) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Nick@C: As far as I am concerned, the 30% rally in gold equities is without substance, until confirmed with a comparable rise in gold bullion. All we have right now is a quickening in gold equities. As I recall, the Oldman, Bill Buckler, and RJ all are not ready to 'shoot their wad' in gold equities quite yet. So -- I am not the only one 'straddling the fence'.

I lost 10k in gold equjities Oct 97, and am proud to profess bailed out of almost all equities the day before the 20% correction ( much worse in gold equities ) . They make an excellent early warning indicator for the general markets.

By hindsight, should have bought some at the current gold equities bottom, as you did. So -- my hat is off to you if you put all your liquid assets in gold equities at the last bottom, and made 30%, without losing on the earlier downside.

Out of curiousity, do you know the American phrase 'shoot your wad?' It means take all of your safe assets and put them in somthing that appears to be a sure thing.

Please tell the rest of us why you think gold equities are so safe that you can risk all at this point. What if South America implodes in a few days? Will gold equities go up or down? What if CRY0 continues to fall off a cliff?

My best investments by far in the last few months have been in non-US currencies and Mexican index puts -- the latter up nearly 400%.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:10
HighRise () ID#401460:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:06
Jack (All politicians hack for the blood suckers) ID#237264:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

There's a problem when politicians, be they American or foreign; set up a gold standard.

These guys are linked to the financial elite who would prefer that gold be priced, so as not to threaten their interests.

In other words the fix will be low, low enough to destroy most producers, who will eventually fall into the hands of those who these politicians are beholding to.

In the event the VERY MINIMUM PRICE for gold should be $600+ per oz, if there were to be an International Gold Standard. On the basis of all the paper circulating around the globe, the gold price would be in the three figures.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 21:06
6pak (Finding work in England is getting difficult @ Conservative M.P selling drugs. It's a job eh!) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Monday, September 7, 1998 Published at 12:57 GMT 13:57 UK

UK Politics

Blair rejects union calls for change

Industry in crisis, say unions and opposition By BBC News online's Nick Assinder.

Tony Blair has rejected demands for a change in government economic policy during a meeting with union leaders in Downing Street.

He insisted that any relaxation in the tough policy would risk destroying the major strides already made towards building a stable economy.

But Mr Blair gave his critics short shrift by pointing out that his government has slashed borrowing from £27bn to £8bn, halved interest rates compared to the 1980s and reduced the underlying rate of inflation from 10% a decade ago to just 2.6%.

Bank of England governor Eddie George is also likely to receive a rough reception when he takes the hugely unusual step of speaking at the TUC Congress.

Mr Blunkett praised the latest 26,000 drop in the jobless total, but conspicuously failed to predict further reductions after several high-profile UK factory closures in recent weeks.

Shadow Trade and Industry Secretary John Redwood said: The government's economic policies are going to demolish much of British manufacturing.

In one short year, Labour have changed the UK from the first choice for investment from most global companies into their first choice for factory closures, he said.

Monday, September 7, 1998 Published at 19:26 GMT 20:26 UK
UK Politics

Peer 'shocked' by drugs claims Allegations in the News of the World

The Conservative peer at the centre of newspaper claims that he arranged to sell hard drugs in the House of Lords has said he is the victim of serious distortions.

Lord Hardwicke has been suspended from the Tory ranks in the Lords after the News of the World reported that he set up a deal to sell cocaine to an undercover reporter on the same day peers were recalled to debate anti-terrorism measures put together after the Omagh bombing.

The paper said 27-year-old Lord Hardwicke sold two grams of the drug to a reporter posing as a businessman, and agreed to arrange further supplies.

The Conservative Party has a robust anti-drugs policy and we condemn drug-dealing in all forms, she said.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:57
HighRise (Starr Report Friday) ID#401460:

I don't know if this has been posted, all should check it out. Just think the Dow goes up almost 400 pts, a record, and the President is about to be impeached.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:57
Gollum (@RJ ) ID#43349:
Thank you. Feynman was one of the greats.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:43
cherokee ( ID#288232:

good to 'see' you again.....this winter will be
one for the record books....florida killing freeze...
get your oj calls now......texas with heavy snow.....
time for ho calls tambien .....physics you know........
ng and co too.......

'every action.....equal reaction.....' sir in....

what happened where? look at the past to know the future...

citcots.......ftsabbawtss......yes.sir....!; )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:41
Highhopes (Empower America - Jack Kemp) ID#404410:
A must read on Empower America entitled Jack Kemp Calls on Pres. Clinton to go 'Beyond Mere Words of Encouragement' and Take Action on the Global Economy.
He calls for a global gold standard.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:37
kitkat (Starr Report to Congress on Friday) ID#208393:
Before or after market close? I guess it will depend on the contents.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:36
MoReGoLd (@Greenstone) ID#348129:
BCIWN: I also took a position here. If this is truly a bottom for Gold then GRE is positioned to move. Im amazed it ever got this low, but im not complaining.......

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:32
Mooney* (Cold Comfort) ID#350194:
Suspicious - I suspect that your are correct. Cherokee - I hope you're NOT! - ( About the dreadful winter, that is ) .

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:32
strat (MoReGoLd, kitkat) ID#93241:
Clinton's through. Greenspan can't save him. He will only be able to plug so many holes in the dike...and this one ain't gonna have a happy ending. AG can sway the markets but he can't turn the tide. Clinton's in flames and even the Dems are bailing out.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:31
cherokee (@....i.mean.right.on...........) ID#288232:

a gift.....a shard of light from the dark...

read on....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:31
kolorado (EZ Believer, jims) ID#272206:
I lost a pile of $ in SSRIF. If you bottom fish this one, better watch that Teck Corporation doesn't bail out on them. Teck controls the stock and they are jumpy. I prefer to place my bet on PAASF.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:30
MoReGoLd (@Carl) ID#348129:
This is the first substantive drop in BC's ratings. Stars report is due out shortly and there are rumors of more disgressions etc, which will surely turn more supporters off. His survival is at risk.......

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:27
EZ Believer (Thanks Tolerant1, Cowgirl and Trinovant) ID#173262:

Trinovant, I searched for and got 15 hits. I assume one of these files will kill the cut-off. Which one?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:26
Mooney* (Pure Gold) ID#350194:
O.K. - R.J.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:24
Donald (Dollar/Yen analysis and comment) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:18
Donald (Only a week after devaluing peso Columbia if forced to defend the new value.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:18
RJ (..... JTF, Gollum, and sharefin .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

JTF and Gollum because you understand physics and are poets at heart. Sharefin because you are a poet with the inquisitive heart of a physicist and you are a seagoing laddy as well. This is from a talk to the National Academy of Sciences more than forty years ago, by a strange and wonderful Nobel Laureate.

It has no title:

There are rushing waves
mountains of molecules
each stupidly minding its own business
trillions apart
yet forming surf in unison

Ages on Ages
Before any eyes could see
year after year
thunderously pounding the shore as now
For whom, for what?
On a dead planet
With no life to entertain

Never at rest
tortured by energy
wasted prodigiously by the sun
poured into space
A mite makes the sea roar

Deep in the sea
All molecules repeat
the patterns of one another
till complex new ones are formed
They make others like themselves
and a new dance starts

Growing in size and complexity
living things
masses of atoms, DNA, protein
dancing a pattern ever more intricate

Out of the cradle
onto dry land
here it is
atoms with consciousness;
matter with curiosity

Stands at the sea
wonders at wondering: I
a universe of atoms
an atom in the universe

Richard Feynman 1955


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:14
BCIWN (@ Greenstone ) ID#206298:
I meant at 1 7/8.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:13
BCIWN (@ Greenstone) ID#206298:
I bought 10k of GRERF today at 1.75. I Think it will get back to 7 before the end of the year.
Why did you pick the handle Greenstone?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:11
6pak (Market conditions are cloudy @ Merrill Lynch) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 8, 1998

FOCUS-Merrill reports emerging markets loss ( Adds analyst and firm comments

NEW YORK, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc. on Tuesday became the latest U.S. securities firm to report that trading losses in emerging markets would hurt its third-quarter results.

Merrill's disclosure follows reports of emerging market losses by other Wall Street houses last week, such as Travelers Group Inc.'s Salomon Smith Barney brokerage unit, Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. , Lehman Bros Holdings Inc. , and Donaldson Lufkin & Jenrette .

A string of U.S. banks also has disclosed turmoil in debt and stock markets worldwide will hurt their third-quarter results.

But U.S. investment bank Goldman Sachs & Co. , which plans to take the partnership public this fall, told employees on Tueday it had escaped the events in emerging markets relatively unscathed, Goldman sources told Reuters.

Merrill was cautious about the rest of the year, saying current market conditions were cloudy.

A number of factors --including a contraction of liquidity in the global debt markets, continuing widespread market volatility, potential delays in underwritings and the possibility of slower economic growth globally-- are creating an uncertain operating environment over the near term, Merrill said in the statement. The firm will implement selective expense reductions, the statement added.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:11
kitkat (Greenspan - Ultimate Power) ID#208393:
One man can control WORLD markets with a few words!
That scares the living sh*t out of me.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:10
Carl (@MoReGoLD - Your catch of latest Clinton job rating poll) ID#341189:
Thanks for the catch. I look at the job rating as an index of people's fear. If this is the beginning of a drop in the rating, it is the beginning of an increase in fear - a sign for a gold bottom.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:07
Donald (Mexican interest rates soar; peso defense policies put banks in danger) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:06
cherokee (!!s.....) ID#288232:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved

the peopleo have broken the kraal...and are headed for
greener pastures....their numbers diminshed by the bear
clan's incursions, they said enough and stampeded.......

the warnings never heeded, of danger amongst the high steepes...
and of the harshest winter ever..just over the vale...the hill
hides the truth....the legions of the bear clan...pressing
anxiously....knowing the day of the bear is at hand....even
as the blood of their own flows in the streets.....

i predict a group of 'events' will 'break' almost simultaneously
and trigger......well, you know.......the feast of the bear, and
the death of the eagle...


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 20:04
Grizz (Drug addicted serial killer - not Billy Boy) ID#424394:
Heard tonight on Buchanan's Crossfire - the Klinton defenders tried to compare his sexual transgressions with those of America's founding fathers to make the point that he is no worse than they. Ann Coulter responded with the statement that none of them were drug-addicted serial killers. She wouldn't be alluding to our boy Billy now would she?

P.S. I must get her book High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Has anybody else here read it?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:59
PrivateInvestor (All re: pbs News Hour w/ Jim L.) ID#225283:
Copyright © 1998 PrivateInvestor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Exclent progam this evening:

Economics Prof. Allan Meltzer of C. Mellon U.
James Gailbraith

Interest rates to cut or not to cut...that is the question...

Meltzer states that an interest rate cut will only weaken dollar and make yen stronger thus plunging all of Asia and the world into the worst Depression ever.

Also excellent piece on Korea/Japan at the end of the broadcast.

If you have a the time and are in the Pacific time zone or Hawaii watch it...or the late rebroadcast in many Central and Eastern time zones.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:48
IDT (Oldman) ID#228128:
Do you think that we will see the S&P500 MAs or does this rally run out of steam.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:48
Greenstone Gold (Such a likeable chap..........) ID#427265:

The many scandals of B.......guess who !

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:45
Aragorn III (studiO.r-O ) ID#212323:
Just now had a chance to scan through the recent history of posts and saw your 15:59. We share the sentiment. Government employees need to view their role not as regulators but as facilitators. Given the off-base approach chosen by these life-less drones, it never fails to amaze me when ANY new mining or drilling operation gets the official Okey-Dokey.

At least we have ensured that the coming depression is nothing more than the very effect we have upon the ground upon our passing...with pockets heavily laden.

got wealth?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:44
MoReGoLd (NEWS FLASH: A.G. hints at a second rate cut, on top of his previous one, to help his buddy Clinton) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Clinton's job approval rating drops-poll

WASHINGTON, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - President Bill Clinton's job approval rating dropped after he admitted to lying about an ``inappropriate relationship'' with former White House intern Monica Lewinsky and his personal approval ratings plummeted, a new poll said on Tuesday.

The poll said that 56 percent of people approve of the job Clinton is doing, down from the mid-sixties before his televised admission of the affair on August 17.

Clinton's personal approval ratings stood at 26 percent, a 19 percent drop since before the scandal erupted in January. Sixty-two percent of the 1,000 people surveyed disapprove of Clinton personally, the poll said. Pollsters did not ask specifically about the Lewinsky scandal.

The poll was part of Battleground program, a collaboration between a Republican strategist from the Tarrance Group and Democratic pollsters from Lake Snell Parry and Associates. Both sides offered analysis of the latest numbers.

The survey shows that Democrats will be hurt in the upcoming Congressional elections, said Ed Goeas, who interpreted the data from the Republican side.

``The Republican base will continue to be more energized, especially in key swing districts,'' Goeas wrote in the Republican paper. ``That being the case, the impact of the Clinton scandal will ultimately be felt at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue on Election Day.''

The Democrats can avoid this result by focusing on the issues during the fall campaign season, said the Democratic team of analysts.

``The prescription is clear -- move the debate away from values and Clinton and give Democratic voters an agenda behind which they can rally.''

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:30
Suspicious (This rally is the one) ID#287312:
that sucks up the last big chunk of liquitity so that on the next fall margin can't be covered and we can then properly crash.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:22
Cowgirl (EZBeliever AOL alternative) ID#34191:
I use Microsoft Investor as my home page. You can set up multiple accounts, post dividends, and it updates prices every five minutes with I think a 20 minute delay. The DOW at the bottom of the page is fairly current. I think the address is then Portfolio. I use a LAN, so I can't make a recommendation for replacing server. has a link to a site with hundreds of ISP's, prices, area served, etc.

P.S my AMCENT Global Gold fund went up today. Why? I thought gold went down?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:04
EZ Believer (jims....SSRIF oops... hit the wrong button a few minutes ago ) ID#173262:
Copyright © 1998 EZ Believer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have been following Silver Standard Resourses, Inc. for over 2/12 years. Here is a brief overview of the company as I see it.

SSRIF has been in business over 50 years. However, four years ago they set out for a grand objective. Their goal was to establish proven silver reserves of 250 million ounces throughout the world. They hired a top notch mining executive named Robert Quartermain to run the company and through some decent promotion raised a significant financing package. They obtained a wide variety of silver concessions throughout North&South America, Mexico, Austrailia, and the former Soviet Union. At one time they calculated their probable reserves at 175 million ounces. That is why the mining industry classifies probable.
The stock price has colapsed from over $5 per share to under a dollar inside the last twelve months. I feel there are three reasons for this freefall. Each provides a lesson in PM equity ownership.

1 ) Poor drill results in Bolivia. A good looking property comes up uneconomical. A tune played many times in the mining industry.

2 ) Political and unstable country risk. In spite of the ramblings of the Communist News Network and the other propaganda machines, there is no NEW WORLD ORDER. It only exists in the minds of a few aspiring Hitlers who would like to enslave us all. Many of the best PM properties
in the world are located in some very unstable countries. A company can have the best property, with the best production facilities and skyrocketing commodity prices and your stock certificates can be hanging by a nail in the outhouse over night.

This appears to be the case with SSRIF's joint venture with Geolog, a Russian company with top notch concessions in Magadan Oblast. When I hear fearful reports from the PM eggheads warning of the dire consequenses of Russian dumping of PM's I break out in laughter. The Russian production machine has nearly ground to a hault. Most of their gold has been sold or stolen. It is almost immpossible to do business there. They have no capital for expansion of production facilities, an unmotivated work force, thugs for local government, and a hostile and punative yet ineffective tax collection system. SSRIF and many other companies found this out the hard way. Goldbelt Resourses went down in a cloud of dust when all their eggs were in the former Soviet Union basket and they were forced to walk away. Likewise as soon as production payoff begins with Geolog, SSRIF finds itself out of the picture. A prime example of the need for geological diversification. The good news is SSRIF has all one could ask.

Back to Geolog. They owe SSRIF $3.2 million dollars. The good news is that a Canadian Smelter by the name of Cominco handles the processing. Last week SSRIF obtained an injunction to prevent Cominco from delivering the funds in dispute. This week, critical court hearings will take place that will set the tone for the case. Now let me ask you; What do you think will be the chance of recovery when a Canadian court will rule on a Canadian resourse company that has been ripped-off by a bunch of theves and the money is held by another Canadian company?

SSRIF already has a multi-million dollar bankroll and no debt. Add $3 million dollars and the current assets to total capitalization ratio will be as high as you will ever see. All this plus five ounces of silver for every share and one can begin to see the potential! This is why I feel SSRIF at these prices is like owning out of the money options on silver with a very small premium and no expiration date. They have great staying power no matter how long the bear market in PM equities lasts.

3 ) The third reason the stock price has been decimated is the general poor public perception of the PM market. We are in the midst of a super bear. Even kitcoites are throwing in the towel left and right. Funny how investments are the only things people dont't want to buy on sale! When one can buy for pennies on the dollar people run away. And when stocks are three times overpriced they can't get enough.

In summary SSRIF controls a legitamate 75 million ounces of silver with no debt and a self sustaining bankroll with or without a favorable ruling on the Geolog issue. Value.... Value.... Value.... at around a buck!

1 )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 19:03
RJ (..... Oh Yeah .....) ID#411259:

I still have faith in the bottoms. Even if they break a bit, I feel pretty good about them recovering quickly.

Righty O

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:59
RJ (..... Market Stuff .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The action in the silver pits today was all as a result of rumors the Russians are selling silver. This does seem a good possibility, since the Russians apparently have silver to sell. It also shows how nervous these markets are about even the hint of Russian sales.

Spot sales of Russian PGMs were reported today. Palladium in particular, and platinum to a lesser extent are subject to these worries and responded with another sell off. The floor reports speculative and fund buying at the lows in platinum. A retest of $350 could be in the cards, but I am layering in platinum trades at these levels. There seems to be little action in the palladium market now and I don’t trade that cursed metal anyway.

People dumped gold as the Dow rallied today, taking profits on their recent gains. Remember what I said about 288 - 290? That is where producer selling steps in. J Aron was a reported seller of gold today.

As I said, I am also layering in silver trades with tight stops. I think the funds might support some of that lower priced silver they bought over the last few weeks.

Silver up. PGMs, down then up, gold down then back to $290 or as Lurky puts it, ASB.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:56
Nick@C (JTF) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You've been sitting on the fence so long that your butt-crack goes up to your neck{:- ) ) ) .

My guess is that gold equities will get another pounding if the WJC business makes the markets take it on the chin, offering an opportunity for purchase of some gold equities. Unfortunately, one must be nimble in these markets, so I don't think it is worthwhile to 'shoot your wad' in precious metals equities quite yet. Gold bullion needs to confirm the gold equities rally -- probably would happen if WJC is likely to be impeached.
Gold equities have just risen 25%+ ( and are due for a little correction ) . When are you going to buy, when they have doubled or trebled in price?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:51
Bill Buckler (Oh Ye Of Boundless Faith) ID#256381:
It is said that faith can move mountains. It is certainly moving mountains of money. Consider what has changed in the so-called real world since last Friday.

This is the biggest bet I've ever seen, based on two assumptions. The minor assumption is that the Fed will lower rates. They very well may. The second and major assumption is that this act will fix everything. I have one question to ask. How?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:51
Goldbug23 (STUDIO.R - Your 15:59) ID#432148:
Your experience made me cry. I have to think if enough of our countrymen ( including women ) knew of your experience trying to supply needs in our society we would eventually have enough Libertarians to do something about it. Am I a voice in the wilderness? I guess so. God help us all.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:42
TYoung (Buckler....thoughts....) ID#317193:
Defaults on debt....derivatives...hold on to your shorts ( the ones with brown in them ) . Tis a matter of time. The last a deer in headlights.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:34
Gianni Dioro (Prechter on-line chat on Thursday) ID#384350:
You need to register to participate in the chat or you can email a question and read the transcript later. I registered and then I got spammed a couple of times to buy a sewing machine. CAVEAT EMPTOR: Prechter will sell your adress.

Bob Prechter has a clear view of the current market and is eager to chat. He will be our guest on Thursday, September 10, at 9:30 PM EDT. The chat will be held in the EWI Auditorium, by popular demand. As always,
if you would like to submit questions before the chat you can do so by
simply emailing them to mailto: .
While we're on the subject of chats...TRANSCRIPT OF LAST CHAT
Since the last chat with Bob, we've been inundated with requests for the
transcript. Well, we regret to inform you that we had a technical glitch and the chat went unrecorded. We do, however, have the transcripts for all our previous chats available on the member page and
we've just recently added the transcript from Bob's interview on Fox
News Network's Cavuto Business Report.

DEFLATION: Has the Monster Been Unleashed?

Read the Prechter Q&A that explains what's really behind the activity in
the world's markets right now.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:29
Bill Buckler (The Thoughts of Chairman Greenspan) ID#256381:
Copyright © 1998 Bill Buckler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The whole world has decided that Alan Greenspan and the U.S. Fed is going to save us all! Ever since his speech at the University of California at Berkeley on September 4, the gyrations on world stock markets have been nothing short of awesome.

Thus, the financial crisis has finally focussed on where it was always ultimately going to focus, the ultimate world lender of last resort, the U.S. Fed - and Treasury. Everyone else, the IMF, the G-7, the World Bank, the Japanese Government, has tried and failed. Now, the Fed and Treasury are front and center. And, of course, they MUST succeed. There is no higher authority to appeal to.

The bet that they will succeed is awesome, as witness the huge 380 point upside explosion on the Dow today.

The Privateer has posted an update on our Dow - Japanese Nikkei comparison charts. They are still moving in lock step as they have been doing ever since the Fed/Bank of Japan joint intervention to save the Yen back in mid June.

We have added a feature to the chart this time. Three links to the ideas of Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan - spread over a time frame of 32 years. First is the speech made at Berkeley on Sept. 4. Then, there is the famous irrational exuberance speech made in December 1996. And finally, there is an article written by Mr Greenspan in a different life - way back in the summer of 1966.

You will find a link to the updated charts, and Mr Greenspan's ideas, on The Privateer's home page.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:29
Bully Beef (i'VE READ SOME STUFF HERE (caps lock) and I think the deflation scenario has sunk in.) ID#260119:
Copyright © 1998 Bully Beef/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good. I'm giving myself an attaboy.My ego is too large for this site so I don't want to smoke your computers. The thing is every body in the world has run to the U.S. dollar and it is therefore...Really Worth a LOT.This is no joke . IN a fair world it really is the best money to be in and it is fairly achieved....BUT The U.S. gov. cannot devalue it unfairly to save jobs in the US because they have an obligation to all the rich of the world that bought the currency and made it worth so much... to leave it that way.My question is therefore... how do you protect the American economy which is being destroyed because the dollar is so high, and at the same time not rip off the people who invested in you? If you can answer this question, I say you will be rich in the next 6 months. Gidday. GO GOLD! OH ? is this the sucker rally. I hope so. I gave my wife the ULTIMATUM to sell on the strenght of this rally. I hpoe I'm not wrong.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:24
noah (deflationary depression or expansion?) ID#39067:
Steve Baldwin: Fortune Magazine; states, Hewlett-Packard rolled out its 150MHz Pentium MMX-powered Omnibook 2000 last October for $2400, but the 11 months it's spent on the market have taken their toll on its retail price. Now you can pick up an unrefurbished Omnibook 2000, complete with 3 year warranty, for just $799 yank bucks at Computer Discount Warehouse.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:17
Oldman (Synergism!!!) ID#186147:
I posted here ytd that the combined effect of simultaneous Crash Calls by both Arch Crawford and Steve Puetz would be a big rally. But the power of this combination surprised even me!: ) : )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:16
Leland (@John B) ID#316193:
No, I do not have any money invested with any phantom operation.
Seminars I do like. Maybe I'll attend one or two. If I learn
anything, then I can share on Kitco. Sharing is what Kitco is
all about.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:12
Envy (@Mtn Bear) ID#219363:
8550 sounds like a good number to me. I'd have trouble envisioning a near-term future of 9500, and we're sitting on 8000. Amen to getting out of long positions - I've been sitting in cash and some small amount of Gold since before the high. I'm not as convinced about when it'll go, there are still a lot of folks who are calling this thing over sold, people who have money and believe what they're saying. I don't think this thing will approach the low without wisping right past it like an anvil through tissue paper.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:10
John B (Leland) ID#211105:
If you have money invested with this phantom operation, it would seem that you would be the one to comment? What are your comments?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:07
Tantalus Rex (XAU Today) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ABX-Barrick Gold-CLOSED AT $16.9375 0.1875 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.23
ASL-Ashanti Gold-CLOSED AT $6.5000 -0.2500 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.09
BMG-Battle Mountain-CLOSED AT $4.3750 -0.2500 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.19
CDE-Coeur D'Alene-CLOSED AT $5.5625 -0.5000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.04
FCX-Freeport Mc-CLOSED AT $13.4375 0.0000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.00
GGO-Getchell Gold-CLOSED AT $12.6875 -0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.03
HL-Hecla Mining-CLOSED AT $4.3750 -0.1250 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.02
HM-Homestake Gold-CLOSED AT $11.1875 -0.8125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.56
NEM-Newmont Mining-CLOSED AT $19.0000 -1.0000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.51
PDG-PlacerDome Gold-CLOSED AT $11.6250 0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.25

XAU CLOSED AT 63.76 -0.93

NEM & HM took the XAU down today, would have been worseif not for ABX & PDG

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:06
moa ( domino teetering....) ID#269128:
with BIG US bank exposure...thar couldn't be good for bonds or....?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 18:01
noah (deflationary depression or expansion?) ID#39067:
Steve Baldwin: Fortune Magazine; states, Hewlett-Packard rolled out its 150MHz Pentium MMX-powered Omnibook 2000 last October for $2400, but the 11 months it's spent on the market have taken their toll on its retail price. Now you can pick up an unrefurbished Omnibook 2000, complete with 3 year warranty, for just $799 yank bucks at Computer Discount Warehouse.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:52
MM (Deflationary Spiral Dance) ID#350179:
Copyright © 1998 MM/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...Taichi Sakaiya, director-general of Japan's Economic Planning Agency, said that while the economy has not yet fallen into a deflationary spiral in which prices sink lower and lower, we are at the entrance of one.'' ...

...Sakaiya said the Japanese economy could enter an extremely dangerous'' phase should the economic situation outside of Japan continue to worsen...

Japan downgrades economic assessment as top official warns of deflationary spiral

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:51
Leland (There is a Portion of my Portfolio Invested With a Guru Who is Advising This..) ID#316193:
Does anybody have any experience, comments

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:48
Gianni Dioro (Golden Prophet - I Agree) ID#384350:
This Rally finished at the close. Them Guppies took this one a bit too far, putting in 2 days of rally into one day. When there is no follow through tomorrow, it will fade & just get worse thru Friday.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:47
Copyright © 1998 KMTMAN@VANCOUVER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks MM I new someone would be smart enough to figure out who buys the gold that a central bank sells? I new it had to be a person or entity with enough clout to absorb a multi ton purchase, I just couldn't put my finger on who or what

Thank you very much for clarifying the answer for all of us. I know that I for one will sleep much better and I feel much better about the long term fundamentals for gold. Especially when you add Indonesia's inflation rate of 77% to the equation. It looks something like this;


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:47
JTF (More from Matt Drudge) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: K Starr to cite 'executive privledge' requests as abuse of power, as well as the use of WJC's federally employed lawyers for personal needs.

Also, the KS team is going through the Nixon records for impeachable offenses.

According to M Drudge, the Starr report is going to Congress in the next few days. Could be devastating to the equity markets if KS has anything significant. Security must have been tight if WJC's lawyers are asking for a preview on the Monica part before it goes to congress. I'll bet KStarr had a good laugh about that one. Recently KS looks alot happier than WJC.

My guess is that gold equities will get another pounding if the WJC business makes the markets take it on the chin, offering an opportunity for purchase of some gold equities. Unfortunately, one must be nimble in these markets, so I don't think it is worthwhile to 'shoot your wad' in precious metals equities quite yet. Gold bullion needs to confirm the gold equities rally -- probably would happen if WJC is likely to be impeached.

The irony of the impeachment proceeding is that a large portion of the process is a popularity contest. The Dems are moving away from WJC, and once it is clear that the polls are revealing his popularity is heading south, the feeding frenzy will begin. Kenneth Starr has played the media almost as well as if he had access to WJC's spin team, IMHO.

Probably the only thing that would save WJC at this point is a persistent market rally. Pretty unlikely --.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:42
6pak (Germany Central Bank @ Joint action MAY BE ? planned.) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 8, 1998

Dollar moves higher amid talk of rate drop

NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - Healthy stock market gains and talk of lower interest rates pushed the dollar higher against the German mark and Japanese yen on Tuesday as traders returned from a three-day weekend.

However, dealers said conditions remained choppy with most currencies finding little new direction as Russia's crisis festers and Japan's economy remains sluggish.

Dealers appeared ready to believe speculation of international rate cuts, particularly as a German central bank official offered what they interpreted as even more hints that some sort of joint action *may be* planned.

Bundesbank council member Olaf Sievert told a banking group in eastern Germany the central bank would maintain its steady rate policy before Europe introduces a common currency next January. But traders jumped on his remark that Germany had no fears of lowering rates if this were needed.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:40
EZ Believer (jims.....SSRIF...Like buying an out of the money option with no expiration.) ID#173262:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:38
moa (Donald...quite accurate...Greenspan boxed in..) ID#269128:
bandito gold buyers going long in the gold calls maybe his only chance.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:36
EJ (And how long will the market wait for a rate cut to materialize) ID#229207:
before figuring that rate cut talk was just that, talk.

As with the yen support move, to work a rate cut has to be timed just right.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:35
Donald (More on Greenspan dilema; something has to give. Stocks or bonds Al; take your pick.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34
Mtn Bear (SE) (@ Envy) ID#347267:
My target is ~ 8550. Then the REAL Bear comes out. Mean time work toward selling all long positions.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:34

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:30
EJ (Maybe I'm missing something) ID#229207:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
but isn't a market that starts to swing like this a market that's ramping up for a crash?

We all expected a rally today and we got one. And it'll go up again tomorrow, but not so much. Then it will tend to hang out and look around for direction.

A change in Fed focus from inflation to deflation means that the market no longer has to worry about the Fed peeing in the DOW punchbowl with a rate increase to slow down an overheating economy. Instead the market has an even bigger worry -- a coming recession. The market will look for evidence and interpret news with this fear in its bear conciousness. Six months ago if a big corporation announced layoffs, the market rose on the news that higher earnings were on the way. The very same news in a bear market confirms the fear that we're entering a recession.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:29
Donald (Greenspan trapped in Box Canyon; Bond Vigilanties have only exit sealed. IMO) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:28
Mtn Bear (SE) (Maria) ID#347267:
Maria sophia gina just said Abby C will be on CNBC later; said She has been bullish for quite some time, and ACCURATE!!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:28
6pak ( Will the Russian people put an end to this madness @ Is the spirit of freedom dead?) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Workers in the nuclear industry staged a warning strike on 7 September to protest unpaid wages, according to ITAR-TASS. AFP reported that around 200 representatives of nuclear facilities from Yekaterinburg, Arzamas, and Chelyabinsk will demonstrate outside the Ministry of Atomic Energy in Moscow on 8 September. Meanwhile, teachers' strikes on Makarov and Tomari on Sakhalin Island continued into their second week, while miners' strikes in the Vorkuta region spread to another mine. On 8 September, 36 workers in a Vladivostok heat and energy plant joined 11 colleagues who have been on a hunger strike for four days over wage arrears dating back six months. JAC

Murmansk Governor Yurii Yevdokimov on 7 September requested food assistance from Finland, citing reduced shipments of food to the region from central Russia. In particular, nurseries, kindergartens, hospitals, and nursing homes are in need of basic commodities such as meat, sugar, salt, and cooking oil.

Meanwhile, in Moscow the legal monthly minimum wage of 83.49 rubles ( $4.17 ) barely buys one liter of vegetable oil, two cans of meat, and one loaf of bread, according to Interfax. Prices for imported foodstuffs have risen 100-500 percent at wholesale food markets in Moscow from their pre-crisis level, while bread and milk prices remain steady in most retail shops. JAC

A Moscow district court on 8 September declared void an order by the Central Bank assuming temporary administration of Inkombank, one of Russia's five largest banks in terms of assets, Bloomberg reported. The same day, Izvestiya suggested that Central Bank chose to take over SBS-Agro and later Inkombank because it had provided both institutions with special credits of $100 million and wanted to make sure that sum was spent on sorting out interbank payments rather than speculating against the ruble.

According to Trud, Vladimir Vinogradov, president of Inkombank, agrees with the Central Bank officials that a restructuring of the banking system is needed but that all the population's wages and deposits should not be concentrated under the management of Sberbank. Such a policy is not in the interest of the banking system of Russia and returns it to its state that existed 10 years ago. JAC

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:27
Gianni Dioro (Hey, Something Ain't Quite Right!) ID#384350:
Uncle Alan says that in view of Asia, the Fed wouldn't rule out a rate cut, so the market gains 5%. Well why the heck did T-Bonds go down then?

Those Guppies are gonna be real sorry when that proverbial brown stuff hits the fan.

Celui est pris qui croyait prendre.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:24
tsclaw (UP, UP AND AWAY) ID#327123:
Well, everthing went as planned today. The MOTHER of all sucker rallies should continue for 2 to 3 more days and then it will turn on a dime and start that sucking sound of money disappearing. The short positions that have been a bottom safety for us is going to disappear in the next 2 to 3 days and then its watch out below. Gold stocks will drop with the rest of the market before they make a massive move up. Use this rally to liquidate your long positions.

May you all invest wisely!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:22
tolerant1 (And another investigation...Reno just announced a 90 investigation of Clintler for) ID#373284:
1996 campaign just keeps getting better and better...uh huh...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:16
strat (EZ Believer) ID#289181:
Sorry for doubting you. My brother had AOL and his opinion was the same as stinks.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:11
Envy (CNBC) ID#219363:
Lady on CNBC a while ago said something along the lines of Gold dropped along with other 'so-called' safe-havens. The tone in her voice made it sound like she thought Gold was a joke, and that the up-swing was a mirage that had happened far away in the market wilderness, seen only by a few people, like the virgin Mary in S. America or something.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:07
Donald (U.S. long bond continues slump in after hours trading; not seen as safe haven now) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 17:05
jims (EZ Believer and Gollum) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks EZ for the SSRIF try. Will appreciate what you find or a lead to it so I can hunt.

Gollum - well I guess we were just worng. A little to quick jumping on the sell side on the S&P ( SPY ) Sup[pose we'll see more follow through tomorrow. I may add to the short side up near 1080 ( 108 SPY ) that's another 300-350 Dow points up the wall of worry.

Meals got slammed. Silver showing its bearish color, gold whimnping along and WHAT PT and PD concerned about economic slowdown in Japan!!!

Did notice that NEM came back - wish I had bought that at 18 rather thinking I was so smart picking a sell point in the SPY just because it open 2 1/2 pionts higher. Damage isn't big, powder remaining for second assualt.

Peutz - hell of a lunar crash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:56
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .223. The 233 day moving average is .253

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:54
Donald (Donald) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 28.04. The 233 day moving average is 28.40 and we have been below it for the sixth straight trading day.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:46
Trinovant (EZ Believer - disconnections ) ID#359316:
Go to
and search for

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:42
Envy (Woowoo.) ID#219363:
Copyright © 1998 Envy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
That was quite impressive. 380 whole points in one little itty bitty day. *grin*. I hope this pig takes off again, I mean really takes off, to 8500 and above. There's still lots of fear out there, so that's probably a good thing for the bull'ites. I know a lot of bears got burned because I started, today, tapping very lightly on the buy button for January puts, and they had already dumped and were back down to reasonable levels ( believe it or not ) . I guess absolutely everyone is expecting a good rally ( or in the bear case - afraid that one might materialize ) . I'll be pawing the buy button a lot harder as we pass 8100, 8200, 8300, and 8500, assuming we pass those levels. I don't want to buy yet - it still seems reasonable to do so, so it's not time. It has to be an absurd proposition before it's a good move. The bull has to look like it was just playing dead, and that the sell-off was a fluke of fear on the part of the masses.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:36
6pak (Overwhelming opponent @ (USG) There are those that are trying to make a difference.) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

By Devvy Kidd

When I ran against incumbent Republican Congressman Wally Herger last year, he boasted that NAFTA was the best thing that could happen to American business. Opportunities would be created along with thousands and thousands of new jobs. Since Mr. Herger never read NAFTA before he voted for it, I was somewhat perplexed as to how he came to this decision.

In March of 1995, illegally using so-called emergency Executive Power, Mr. Clinton, with the approval of Dole, Gingrich and others, ROBBED the American People of $52 billion dollars - that's the loan amount to Mexico plus the usury charged by the privately owned. unconstitutional Federal Reserve Accounting System. The FED isn't a banking system. They loan nothing of value, only ink figures on a ledger sheet, like an accounting firm keeps tracks of ink entries. Remember what Dick Armey said about NAFTA? ...rejection would seriously harm that economy and perhaps create a new debt crisis. Fifteen months into the treaty what does Mexico have? A new debt crisis. Heaven help us from such future leadership!

We must dedicate ourselves to this fight for freedom, for all America has stood for in the past and for all we will stand for in the future. We the People must be the army of America, the leadership for America as William Wallace was for the people of Scotland. We can turn things around by learning to fight smart using the system our forefathers gave us that has held us for so long. Violence is not the answer, unity, dedication and commitment is our weapon.

Dear Concerned American:

Enclosed is a brochure outlining the Wallace Institute, what we are, what we stand for and our legal strategy. We're all fed up with the direction America is being taken by bought and paid for politicians and elected public officials who have no clue about the law. Politicians who have forsaken their oath of office for poll results and special interest money.

There are over 27,000 citizens groups in America basically all focused on a core of issues: Abolishing the FED, the IRS, getting America out of the UN, abolishing the unconstitutional Federal Dept. of Education, the EPA and so on. What too many people don't realize is that these entities derive their jurisdiction from international treaties and writing to your senator or congressman is as effective as an elephant scratching his back with a toothpick. An elephant scratches his back with something effective - like a tree. You get the picture.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:35
Gollum (@EJ ) ID#43349:
Yep. Unfortuneatly the market wouldn't stay down for the rest of the day, but kept trending up from a little after 12:30. Sort of like the day we had the 519 point drop--except in reverse.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:33
MM (CB Sales) ID#350179:
An oldie but a goodie

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:30
tolerant1 (EZ Believer, Namaste' you may find this link of help in your quest...) ID#373284:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:28
Speed (CRB Index updated) ID#28861:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:27
Goldteck ( Bulyanhulu gold project in Tanzania would be delayed until slumping gold and equity markets ) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Canada mine co delays Tanzania gold project
 DAR ES SALAAM, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Canadian gold miner Sutton Resources Ltd said on Tuesday that its Bulyanhulu gold project in Tanzania would be delayed until slumping gold and equity markets improved.
  Vancouver-based Sutton also said that its partner in a Guyana gold project had withdrawn and talks with other potential partners were underway.
  Sutton is the latest gold company to feel the pain of weak gold prices and a dramatic downturn in world equity markets.
  Orders for plant and equipment and commencement of shaft and underground construction will be deferred until the gold price and the equity market's firm, Sutton said in an update on its Tanzanian gold site.
  The company said talks with potential lenders are continuing so that mine financing can be finalised with minimum dilution to shareholders when markets permit.
  Sutton said work on upgrading roads, a construction camp and the drilling of reef structures would also continue. Some engineering work and water reservoir and tailings pond construction would also remain on schedule.
  The Bulyanhulu property holds an estimated 7.7 million ounces of gold resources. A recent feasibility study scoped out a 2,500 tonne-per-day mine yielding over 300,000 ounces of gold annually at a cash cost of $163 per ounce.
  Sutton also said it is looking for a new partner for the Marudi Mountain gold site in Guyana after Brazilian Goldfields Ltd withdrew from the project.
  Discussions with other interested parties are underway, Sutton said.
  The Canadian company is also partnered with South African mining giant Anglo American Corp in exploring the Kabanga nickel sulphide property.
  Sutton said Anglo, which may earn a 60 percent stake in the project, is aggressively drilling at the site and a new resource estimate is expected before the end of the year.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:26
aurophile (@leftykiwi) ID#201109:
I forwarded your message for the humble one to him last weekend as his ISP was down for weather reasons at the time of your post. I also appreciated your SC f projections from 1976 which I had not looked at in many moons. Best wishes.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:24
Squirrel (Bad money drives out good - so what if the good is Gold) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We just saturate the market with millions of tiny Gold coins.
What do we care if millions of them get squirreled away.
We mint and sell more - at a profit for each and every one.
So it takes a few billion to saturate the market well enough
that people are willing to use them for everyday retail trade.
Meanwhile several thousand tonnes of Gold gets bought up by
the masses. With that kind of demand the POG has to go up
{which will make Goldbugs happy} and Gold has returned to its
rightful place as money {which makes the anti-fiat crowd happy}.
If we make 50 cents on each coin and we sell a million of them...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:24
EJ (Gollum) ID#229207:
If the market then settle out and doesn't move much for the rest of the day, you'll see a big sell off in the late afternoon and shortly before close as the daytraders exit for the day.

Looks like someone figured out the New Days Traders' game and took their money.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:23
Gollum (Who WAS that masked man) ID#43349:
This was just like the day they had the 519 point drop, except in reverse. On that day I expected the day traders to close their short poeitions from the early morning sell off, but the market kept falling all day so at the end they jumped on even shorter.

Today I kept expecting the them to sell off int the afternoon, but after lunch the market kept rising, so at the end they went long even harder.

If you can't trust day traders, who can you trust?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:11
2BR02B? (StudioR.) ID#266105:

I worked the oilpatch for a stint, early 'Eighties before the
price collapse, Williston basin out of Sidney MT. Interesting
bunch those oilfield workers, I saw things there I'd never seen
anywheres before or sense, er, since. Gotta go.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:08
EZ Believer (Strat...... Thanks, but it is AOL) ID#173262:
The disconnection setting was off. What a pain! Someone told me to enter a chat room before going to other places to fool the system. No thanks, there has got to be a better way!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:06
Redneck (For the experts: How high do dead cats usually bounce?) ID#403234:
Perhaps it just had the fainting goat syndrome.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:05
CPO@AU (KMTMAN@VANCOUVER( add comment)) ID#329186:
Nothing has happened is incorrect what has happened is that perception has been altered ~ a lot of people think that banks are selling gold which is not true


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 16:03
CPO@AU (KMTMAN@VANCOUVER(question of the day)) ID#329186:
That is a question i thinlk we would all like to know when a CB sells AU the infor is usuaLLY given weeks later as dissinformation
country a CB sell x Tonnes to Country B
Country B sell X tonnes to Counrty c
Who in turn sell x tonnes back to counry a
nothing has happened
the market lacke transparency but has heaps of dissinfo part of the heist
go gold physival


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:59
STUDIO.R (@MOREX..........) ID#119358:
Copyright © 1998 STUDIO.R/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My company produces in Ok. and the Permian Basin. We are operators. The company's name is Synergex, Inc. ( formerly Bledsoe Partners ) . I am prez. Have been involved in the production part of the biz for 12 years. We were fortunate to sell approx. 250 wells two years ago when prices were higher. We kept the best wells ( approx. 100 ) .
I think prices will go up within the 2-3 year time frame. This may very well be the last good run up. We will sell our remaining wells at that time. We are not interested in drilling at this time, or leasing prospective acreage, nor will we in the future.
The EPA, MMS, Ok. Corp. Comm., the Texas Railroad Comm. ( not as bad as others ) , are terrorizing us out of the biz. I look forward to never doing business in the U.S., particularly in the resources arena, and never having an employee for the remainder of my life. I hate the government ( all levels ) and their stupid ass, blood-sucking, purposeless people.

Best o' luck to YA!!!!..and Forever May GOD BLESS the OIL MEN!!!! They are the best that 'Merica has to offer in my honest opinion. studio.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:58
Gianni Dioro (Moa WB and them block trades) ID#384350:
I have my suspiscions as well. When you look at the recent selloff of Disney, Coke, American Express, and Travelers, you kind of wonder if Buffett has gone a lot deeper into cash.

Rumour has it that when Buffett went to NY to rescue Salomon ( now part of Travelers ) he was so spooked by derivative exposure that he immediately tried to unload his convertible preferred in Salomon. With the Travelers buyout, he did quite well, and he loves financial companies, however he may just want to keep his money on the sidelines and wait till he is pretty confident about who will be the last ones standing. Then he'll make his move.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:57
MM (Correction) ID#350179:
XAU off 1.43%, sorry.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:54
MM (Volatility anyone) ID#350179:
DOW up 5%
XAU off 2%

More or less...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:47
Silverbaron (CNBC gets to have ANOTHER DOW 8000 party ) ID#289357:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:42
Gianni Dioro (Dow finishing ABC counter rally?) ID#384350:
IMO, the Dow is making the C portion in an ABC pattern off its Sep 1 low. This rally should finish by tomorrow morning, then it all goes downhill from there. PM's will be under attack as the market manipulators don't want Joe Guppy to get the impression that Gold goes up when the Dow goes down.

We have Starr's Impeachment Report coming out soon, and I'm even considering the possibility of an Earthquake in LA or San Fran this weekend.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:38
moa (WB looking for more PM's?) ID#269128:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:37
Spud Master (Anyone want to bet on a hard fall at the close?) ID#28586:
This market smells worse than a week old dead catfish in an East Texas roadside ditch. Eke! The paragon of political corruption & manipulation -- The US Stock Market.

What happens when:

a ) The putative interest rate reduction does not happen, or
b ) The Starr Report fries the living hell out of Clinton, or
c ) There is a coup in Russia?

Any of the three can happen between now and Friday.

Invest in this market? ha.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:37
tolerant1 (Mtn. Bear, Namaste'I vote we sell all the furniture to museums...level the White House) ID#373284:
and build a new one...or dismantle it and put it back together in a National Park...the only thing that makes that or any house special is having the red, white and blue fluttering over it...bricks...mortar and more no less...that is all it less...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:32
Silverbaron (DOW on afterburners!) ID#289357:

UP 350+

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:32
Realistic (Sorry for the typos) ID#410194:
Should read:

The markets rarely reward easy and obvious expectations eh?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:29
Realistic (New intra-day highs) ID#410194:
Way too many people started to plan on shorting the equities this afternoon so that they can take advantage of the afternoon sell-off. This was talked about here and on some other forums as early as last Sunday!

But the markets rarely rewards easy and obvious espectations eh?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:15

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:25
MOREX (Studio.R) ID#347172:
Sir, I understand from several other contributors, that you are involved in the oil industry as so am I. Please give me an idea of your future thoughts about our beloved oil patch. Thanking you in advance.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:18
Silverbaron (ASA, HM, and S&P 500 pull back to Jeil's model curves) ID#289357:
Current pricing: ASA 18 3/16, HM 11 3/16, SP500 1006 put all these approximately on Jeil's blue trend lines.

Watch the next couple of days to see if the down trend continues....that should be a sign to bail on gold mining stocks IMHO.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:14
Mtn Bear (SE) (@ THe Tolerant One) ID#347267:
Namaste' o tolerant one. When The One Who Lies finally leaves OUR White House not only will the whole place have to be fumigated, but the Oval Office will need a very professional decontamination team for at least a week!
Re AG; still think he has been bought and paid for, but just maybe Billary has somethin on him or his wife.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:13
moa (Forming a Gold Plunge Protection Fund.) ID#269128:
Copyright © 1998 moa/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Anybody interested?

After studying futures and options market behaivour and trading volumes I now understand how these markets can be manipulated so easily. In futures/options trade the dollar volumes are miniscule compared with their underlying controlling asset. If you have a few hundred million to shift around one could easily move the gold market just by buying up all the call options. The shorts can only write so much script without going naked so to speak. You can't sell what you don't have. With spot traders actually looking to the futures for direction it is a positive feedback loop....whichever way future moves so follows spot reinforcing futures move.

So who's interested looks like gold has turned the corner now we could ride this baby to the top on rocket fuel of derivatives...using a small Advance Posse Fund to keep futures on the up and to speak.

email if at all interested

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:11
EZ Believer (Strat Thanks, I will give it a try.) ID#173262:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:09
RJ (..... How Bout That Dow? .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The metals are moving right back to those bottoms I keep talking about. $4.80 silver, $360 platinum, $278 gold. I still feel as if these will hold. Some are talking about silver falling from here, but I am layering in some buys at these levels. I’m buying all the platinum I can but I am still not trading gold on the long side. I am, however, delivering as much gold as I can at these prices and will continue to do so as long as I can get it into people hands for less than $300 delivered cost.

It looks like long liquidation was responsible for the drop in silver today, with gold tagging along for the ride. Platinum and palladium are suffering because of the latest Japanese economic numbers. This has some worried in the short term for the PGMs, but looking at least six months out, I find it hard not to see a $80 - $100 rise in price. I suspect we will get a more modest rally by the end of the month as October platinum rolls into the delivery month. Volatility should be high in October which should offer opportunities for day trades.

Spent the long weekend in San Diego and La Jojja, kayaking, snorkeling, and just generally being a So Cal beach bum. Scripts Oceanographic Institute is located in La Jojja ( about 20 miles north of San Diego ) and there is an excellent reef for divers, and ocean caves for kayakers to explore. Sea air and salt spray, that’s the ticket. The cobwebs are clear and I look forward to an interesting couple-o-months in the metals.

Indeedy So


Righty O

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:08
EZ Believer (Fuming mad at America Online) ID#173262:

While I'm on the subject, did anyone else have a major disruption of service on Friday? I could not access any website from 3:45 to 10:00PM. Had to call My online broker after 4:00 to check limit orders.
Can anyone recomend a 100% reliable service with decent features for investors. I'm kind of used to AOL's financial section and track multiple portfolios. Open for suggestions.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:06
Suspicious (Sharefin: Thanks ) ID#287312:
for that Y2K site. Looks like good regular reading.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:04
moa (Brazilian plunge team found more ammo....) ID#269128:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 15:02
tolerant1 (It is amazing to me that given the possibilities that exist within several different) ID#373284:
Y2K scenarios that people are doing nothing...and I mean nothing...I doubt if 1% of America is preparing...when you hear of these companies that sell survival goods are so busy they can't keep up and then you realize that maybe 1% is buying it really gets scary to think what will happen when 5% or better start placing orders...order now or put yourself and your family at ifs, ands, or your orders now...I figure there is a three month window to place and recieve product on an orderly basis...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:55
sharefin (Y2K and Environmentalism - must read) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:48
strat (EZ Believer) ID#93241:
It's probably not AOL, but a setting in your operating system. If you've got Win95, go to the start menu and hit settings. Go to the control panel, then hit the internet icon. You should get an internet properties window with a series of tabs across the top. Go to connection and you should see a box that says disconnect if idle for... Just check the box and change the setting or turn that feature off.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:43
sharefin (Y2K CONSPIRACIES) ID#284255:

FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD - the Y2K page of the Federal Reserve. If you're smart, you've already taken your money out of the bank and bought gold and silver coins.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:42
Silverbaron (Technical Analysis of the XAU) ID#289357:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:40
Gollum (DOW +224) ID#35571:
Almost three o'oclock.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:38
EZ Believer (jims Had story on SSRIF for you but lost it, hang on.) ID#173262:

#**%# That is it for America Online! Had a great summary of SSRIF 90% done. Looking away from My screen on one typical 5 minute call at the office and AOL logged Me off for inactivity. I could scream! Any suggestions for an internet server that one can leave on without an automatic cut-off.

Too busy to duplicate it now. Catch you later.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:37
sharefin (Could it be real?) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:34
Lou Paquette (@KMTMAN...hedge fund managers who don't want others to know they buy?) ID#253227:
also could be refiners and minters, and maybe even other central banks, although we have not heard of any....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:27
strat (KMTMAN) ID#93241:
Could also be a guy like Bill Gates ( he could afford quite a bit ) .

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:27
Jack (Alberich) ID#237264:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

You said it, in the state of financial warfare Malaysia -a sovereign nation- was right to institute controls.

The entire Asean Group should act together and form a TRADE BLOCK with the understanding to accept each others currencies but with strict control that those within the block toe the line.

This will have the effect of averting unwanted currency attacks, create internal calm, give the IMF the clear message to get out of our affairs and send a powerful message to other countries in Asia to take simuliar actions.

All nations worldwide will benefit by such an action.
This will strike a positive bloe for Sovereignty.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:25
DEJ (Kitman: I vote for fabricators.) ID#270235:
Jewelery demand is supposedly about 3200 tons per year.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:24
strat (KMTMAN) ID#93241:
Other CB's. Recent reports indicate Poland ( 30 tons ) and China ( 70 tons ) have made substantial purchases this year. For a good overview of the gold market, go to:

Kaplan ( editor ) has a lot of data there and you might find what you're looking for.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:14
robnoel (trader_vic...Iam talking about PCGS/NGC certified coins MS 62/63 are graded by some other group and ) ID#410198:
are suspect...with all due respect

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:14
Can anyone and I do mean anyone tell me who is the buyer of the gold when a central bank sells? is it Soros? is it Buffett? is it Tempelton? I need to know who or what is able to absorb a multi ton purchase of Gold. There are some easy eliminations the first being Joe Public. There is no way that the retail investor could even get close to buying a multi ton shipment of Gold. So I ask you once again WHO?
Who is able to buy that much Gold, and why don't they publicise who the buyer is instead of just who the seller is?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 14:13
MM (Whatever) ID#350179:
Goldman Sachs Tells Employees IPO Will Go Ahead ( Update1 ),213,0~0~~~~INI~596871300~~~~,00.html

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:59
plaintalker (Special for all Clinton lovers and haters frm London Times.) ID#217338:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:59
Test (@tolerant1 & C Keeling) ID#374235:
Good answers. Thanks to you and all for the education provided on a daily basis.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:58
STUDIO.R (@ O'sharefin, jtfO, T#1) ID#119358:
Copyright © 1998 STUDIO.R/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
sharefin, speaking of blue stems o' sky and brown's a url for your enrichment ( I have actually, no joke!, competed in this contest ) ...I flung it as hard as you would...but lost.

jtfO re: black earl, I concur with you and cherOasaki, the mid-east is about ready to rumble again. Big Aunt Sam is being dealt out of the game.

T#1...The Right High Reverend Quanah Parker sends his most favored thoughts to you for the lightning stick tip. salud! ug.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:58
The Hatt (Things are much too quiet!) ID#374348:
Something is going on behind the scenes and my guess is there are massive problems in the derivitives market... Things seem far to controlled and deliberate.. Perhaps they are trying to engineer a market that will be friendly towards unwinding some of these problems. Called my bank five minutes ago and they refused to answer any questions regarding their exposure and that immediately raises the red flags. I am of the opinion that this market is about to come apart and all hell will break loose!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:57
sharefin (Email chatter) ID#284255:
Hey everyone!
Just thought you'd be interested in the Central New York weather we've been experiencing! We had a microburst on Monday morning at 1AM. Lightning strikes of 100 per minute ( yup, you got it right! ) and rain and winds of 100mph. Tons of devastation and no power, no food, and in several cases, no telephone and no water. Over 200,000 people without power.
We were away at our Y2K hideaway which was far-removed from the storm during this, but we started getting multiple emergency calls at about 6AM ( my husband is a property manager. ) We brought ice, some food and additional water back with us, and are glad we did. Only two people were killed outright, but several more died of heart attacks as a direct result of the ferociousness of the storm. Several pets died out of fear, also, which I thought was both interesting and sad.
The upshot of this: many, many people have come to me to tell me how they remembered my Y2K warnings and how similar this looks to what I have been telling them. They are going to start preparing for Y2K now. Too bad it takes a tragedy like this to make people start reacting.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:56
Charles Keeling (@ TEST RE: Your request for PPT info.) ID#344225:
Several links here:

PPT? A subject that just will not go away.
First used in 1987. Lately being used on a regular basis.

Now the concept is spreading worldwide to other markets.

FREE MARKETS? Indeed: Not.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:53
Dave in CO (@EB) ID#229141:
My 401K money is not in long term equities. You got that right. I've read about the 1929-1952 period and what happened to the investment trusts ( mutual funds ) and the people who owned them who jumped out of windows. From what I read, this new paradigm market is more overvalued than that one.

I also remember the 1974-1982 market. The political crisis of Scum and Scumary is eerily similar to Tricky Dick's problems of that time.

No thanks, EB. But you're sure welcome to keep holding the bag. Somebody has to.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:53
sharefin (Risks in the Natural Gas Industry ) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52
2BR02B? (L. Paquette) ID#266105:

Bingo. Increasingly desperate measures. Response to attempt
to retain capital-- flight.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52
sharefin (Gold testing kit) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52
PrivateInvestor (To the Dollar) ID#225283:


perfect timing

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52
SDRer (In a cavern, in New York, shifting gold in trouble-time...) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Wed, 1/1/97|¥:AU=42634.8|¥:USD=115.95
Sat, 8/1/98|¥:AU=41436.0|¥:USD=144.78

Thu, 1/2/97|¥:AU=42417.5|¥:USD=115.8
Sun, 8/2/98|¥:AU=41447.5|¥:USD=144.8241311.

Fri, 1/3/97|¥:AU=41986.2|¥:USD=115.92
Mon 8/3/98|¥:AU=41339.7|¥:USD=145.46

Sat, 1/4/97|¥:AU=42058.5|¥:USD=116.42
Tue, 8/4/98|¥:AU=41470.7|¥:USD=144.80

Sun, 1/5/97|¥:AU=42175.4|¥:USD=116.70
Wed, 8/5/98|¥:AU=41400.0|¥:USD=143.850

Mon, 1/6/98|¥:AU=41467.1|¥:USD=115.83
Thu, 8/6/98|¥:AU=41566.8|¥:USD=144.53

Tue, 1/7/97|¥:AU=41345.8|¥:USD=115.33
Fri, 8/7/98|¥:AU=41578.4|¥:USD=145.43

Wed, 1/8/97|¥:AU=41147.4|¥:USD=115.68
Sat, 8/8/98|¥:AU=41877.4|¥:USD=146.20

Thu, 1/9/97|¥:AU=41311.0|¥:USD=116.14
Sun, 8/9/98|¥:AU=41880.4|¥:USD=146.280

Exchange Controls? The Mighty don't need yer stinking exchange controls!

And the Yen is weak? Depends on what one wishes to buy...

Doesn't this sorta look like pay back time…

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:52
Squirrel (Mozel - We've read the Constitution and understand Gold's role in money) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So what is your point in your 05:16?
Getting a lawyer won't help since the system is rigged against us.
You said so yourself - I think ( somewhere in miles of prose ) .
Grizz's 03:29 is correct in that many of us are tired of listening to post after post telling us what is wrong with our nation and with what we are doing or not doing. Yet you offer no good suggestions for what we can effectively do as individuals or as a group of Goldbugs. You dwell on theoretical David and Goliath behavior which, again as you have stated so many times, is futile against such an overwhelming opponent {the USG}.
So we are back to listening to sermons which go nowhere since we are the choir and have heard all this before from other sources as well - from Aristotle to Tocqueville to Jefferson, Lincoln, King and Mozel.
So on a local and individual level what options are open to us?

I, for one, am working on ways to rebuild on firmer foundations after Y2Kaos takes down the present structure. Perhaps a little kick in the weak spots will speed it's collapse. But overt action like the Montana Freemen is doomed and hurts our cause rather than helps. Best we bide our time and prepare by stocking and fortifying our burrows and developing a plan of action for after Y2K.

Thus some of us, unlike theoreticians, preachers and denial-heads, are TRYING TO DO SOMETHING! Since we expect no government to re-introduce a Gold standard of trade for the average person's daily purchases some of us are trying to do so. This too may be an exercise in futility if Y2K does not bring down a system determined to strip Gold of its monetary role or nationalize Gold mines and outlaw private ownership of it - other than jewelry and dental fillings.

Getting even a few tens of grains of Gold into as many hands as possible before Y2K will help us rebuild a defacto monetary system based on Gold. Failing to do so will relegate Gold to tales of the old days by old Goldbugs around a campfire as they fondle their coins & bars {which they bring out of hiding to show each other and which must go back into hiding since possession is illegal and you can't buy anything with them anyway because all transactions are done with chips in people's hands or by computer}.

Yes, perhaps an underground economy could operate with Gold - if we can get enough Gold into circulation in the next year to provide a foundation therefore. Unless the average person has Gold to spend, you won't be able to sell your services in return for Gold . Maybe you plan on dealing only with fellow Goldbugs. But will every tradesman or salesman be part of the Gold Underground Cabal? As you buy services and products and pay with Gold your stock of it will trickle away - grain by grain, ounce by ounce and will not return because, as you may have said yourself - bad money drives out good. There will not be enough Gold in the hands of those you need to deal with to replenish your reserves - you will have to continue buying it on the black market in order to spend it in the underground economy. You will also need to find an underground operation to melt and re-mint your bars and coins down into spendable sizes - about the size of the nail on your little finger - 10 or 20 grains rather than 1/4 ounces.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:51
strat (Earl 11:31) ID#93241:
Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:31
Earl ( Catch 61 and the baseball thingy: ) ID#227238:

It's reported this morning that the IRS will be looking for the fan that caught Magwire's 61st homer yesterday.

It seems that as long as the ball remains in the park, it's the property of the team. Having left the park, it belongs to the fan. Should the fan choose to return it to the team, he then becomes liable for a gift tax. Even though the fan has received no money in the transaction. The number $625,000 was used to indicate value of the ball. ..... Doncha just love it?

Earl, I hope mozel is out in left field ( no pun intended ) to catch McGuire's 62nd. I know he'd give it back. And then it would get real interesting....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:50
Leland (In Russia it is Now Illegal to Make Purchases in Dollars - More on The Crazy Currency War) ID#316193:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:43
sharefin (NightWriter) ID#284255:
You'll have to find it first.
Miles away any seven-eleven or Macca's.
Just gotta pump this book.

It's very good.
Have downloaded the whole version for future reference.
My virtual hard copy...

If the net goes down it'll be worth its wait in gold.

Some mighty fine reading.

Some mighty fine blue-stems amongst the cow pats
Up on the farm.
Lazy daze and blue skies........

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:41
trader_vic (Gold Coins) ID#372228:
The US $20 St.Gaudins in MS62-63 graded are $500 + Tax here in NY City, as many as you's the tax here that kills buying these coins here. Most dealers will ship out of state and not charge the sales tax.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:40
tolerant1 (Test, Namaste' PPT - Plunge Protection Team here is a link...a little slow...let it load) ID#373284:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:40
Lou Paquette (@ALBERICH, Market Controls for Prosperity?) ID#253227:
Copyright © 1998 Lou Paquette/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Under these circumstances of financial warfare I consider it legitimate when Dr. Mahatir bin Mohamad thinks of abandoning the rules for free exchangeable currency markets and wants to return to a tighter control of the financial markets. The only way to escape from the slavery conditions which are imposed on these third world countries by the international financial oligarchy, and to stabilize their economies, is to control the flow of speculative capital and to tie their currencies to gold. That's the only way I can see for these countries to restore the value of their work force.

I disagree. The reason Malaysia is in the trouble is in is not because of free markets - it's because of the lack of democracy and rule of law, and uncontrilled corruption and cronyism. The build huge monuments that benefited a very few and served no purpose. Controls in the long term drives away capital and investment, which are needed to give the cheap labour a chance for prosperity. Mahathir may not be a cruel and brutal as Suharto, but he is at least as full of himself to beleive he can actually control the market, and set the direction of capital based on his own self-serving and infinately greedy whimes.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:40
robnoel ( advice run don't walk and grab as many as possible...current bid prices for raw Saints ) ID#410198:
and Libertys ...AU 440....BU....465

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:34
Test (Glossary query) ID#374235:
PPT? IMHO? Please translate.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:32
Isure (@ Robnoel) ID#421269:

What is fair market on UNC . 20 LIBS and SAINTS, I know where plenty are but they want 469 each and that sounds high.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:26
gagnrad (JTF et al re AG's ) ID#43460:
Your comment earlier prompted me to look up and read AG's recent speech. I wonder if it is a promise or a threat or something which looks like a promise but isn't? Here is a link to his speech.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:21
JTF (The Net is only for the big guys, the little guys fall through.) ID#254321:
Gollum: The net is only for the PPT and other insiders, IMHO. I wonder -- think the Mutual fund guys are linked up with AG and RR etal? What worries me is that even supposedly safe mutual fund money market funds can be raided in a pinch these days. Real US treasuries would be safer. I only hope that Fidelity stays solvent, and does not do anything silly with their money market funds -- I have Fidelity Spartan 100% US treasury for my 403b. Would choose one with 0% interest if it were safer.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:12
Gollum (DOW +220) ID#35571:
It flys through the air with the greatest of ease, the daring young DOW on the fying trapeze. I wonder if it's working with a net.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:12
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste' and a gulp for that post...ah...peyote...YES!!!) ID#373284:
and now...a should order some of these for you and your flock... most excellent little products!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:08
robnoel (ALERT..ALERT....If you do not believe me call any major dealer...there are NO MS certified $20 ) ID#410198:
Saints or Libertys available anywhere....current bid prices have just gone up $15.00....expect more increases supplier now is pushing foriegn gold....forget what the media is saying people are hoarding .....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:06
JTF (Arkansas history) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
StudioR.: Thanks for correcting my faulty Arkansas history! Forgot about judge Parker.

Crazy times, aren't they? It may not be long before your black gold flows again -- at a profit. Probably depends most on how the US dollar fares on the international markets, and on the US commodity price indices. And Saddam is being allowed to rearm, so that we will have someone to fight. Too bad our unfortunate Armed Forces have to put up with our rudderless foreign policy. Can't get any worse, I think, and our next Republican president is likely to be popular with the military.

Whoever it is will have alot of cleaning up to do, though some of it will be done before he/she takes the oath of office. Hope whoever it is does not get blamed for y2k.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:02
STUDIO.R (@T#1...........) ID#119358:
yes, they have their Gautama and you, well we got our own guy.....


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 13:00
ALBERICH (Example Malaysia: Can the terms Deflation or Inflation capture..) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
what's going on in reality?
About 6 weeks ago my wife has bought a very nicely designed microwave ( i.e., simple to handle, as a present for a couple in their mid eighties ) for $79.00. Made in Malaysia. It's a good product. Works reliably and is used every day.
For a compareable product made in US you'd pay about 50% more. This situation has for sure not a stable future. With the devaluation of the Malaysian currency these imports have become extremely cheap, which means a very low price is paid on the international market for the labor performed in Malaysia. Not enough that these countries anyhow had levels of labor pay which reminded of close to slavery. Now, in the new economic world order, the labor of these countries is additionally devalued.

On the other hand, prices for imports are now extremely high in these Asian countries. So they suffer inflation on the side of imports and deflation on the side of exports. Note: this is not truly an organic market development, which can be observed when prices fall due to competition and increased productivity. In the case of the Asian countries, the devaluation of the price of their work force is the result of financial warfare.

This has two destructive sides. First, this development exploits the human work force and second, it ruins the industrial production in the highly industrialized countries and means a loss of jobs in these countries.

Under these circumstances of financial warfare I consider it legitimate when Dr. Mahatir bin Mohamad thinks of abandoning the rules for free exchangeable currency markets and wants to return to a tighter control of the financial markets. The only way to escape from the slavery conditions which are imposed on these third world countries by the international financial oligarchy, and to stabilize their economies, is to control the flow of speculative capital and to tie their currencies to gold. That's the only way I can see for these countries to restore the value of their work force.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:59
NightWriter (@sharefin) ID#390415:
Nice food storage posts.

Can I bring my family to your hideout?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:55
JTF (Got to log off for a while - New World Order) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: I think the 'New World Order' is going to have a few problems very soon. The structure of their Order is cracking at the seams. Just how is the US government and the EMU going to retain credibility if they are not prepared for y2k? It will be interesting to see what will happen with only private corpoarations ( mostly little ones ) prepared for y2k, and the US government paralyzed. The worst case scenario would be reminiscent of Russia right now.

The American people may look to the government for help -- but it will certainly not be without alot of house cleaning. It is entirely possible that power will shift to the states where problems will be easier to resolve. Wonder just how much more solvent the States are vs the US government.

And -- 'Big Brother' may be watching us, but we can watch 'Big Brother' too. Look what happened to the figurehead of 'Big Brother', WJC.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:51
Shlomo (AUH20/Greenspan & WJC) ID#288399:
Personally, IMHO, it seems it may be Andrea Mitchell who has changed AG: i.e., he fears for his wife's safety enough to prop up markets at ALL costs because the alternative would be a horrible outcome, and sooner at this. AG is playing for time, that's all. His stance, whatever it is, can only put off the inevitable debt collapse alittle longer. At his age, he may actually hope he's dead before the deflationary spiral becomes inexorable.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:48
STUDIO.R (@jtfOne home............) ID#119358:
Judge Bean=West o' Pecos Judge Parker=Ft. Smith Arkies are not movin' on D.C. unless Brother Don Tyson says to. Then and only then, will they move out smartly. GO GOLDBUGS!!!! G&P to YA!!! jtfO

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:47
Myrmidon (TO: Marshall) ID#345176:

What other events have occured on Oct 24th?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:46
lakshmi (Al Greenspan) ID#26350:
Copyright © 1998 lakshmi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I would not lump him in with the Clintonista crowd. Clinton supported Greenspan by re-appointing him. AG may not be perfect, but who would be better? Imagine if one of the Clinton chums were in there what damage could be done. If you ferret AG out he always comes back to gold, even if it doesn't make the headliners in the papers. In Berkeley last week AG did say he would lower the rates if needed, although prior to that he said he was more inclined to raise, not lower. AG has always been a man of honor, unlike Clinton. Al Gore will be better and Clinton is purely a product of the Democratic Party. As Party sentiment turns, surely Clinton will be forced to resign--it is all he knows, conform to party sentiment. Without the party, he has no profile, no ability, etc.
Someone posted about India. Of interest is that the Indian economy is protected by their laws currently in place from the storm that has been hitting neighboring nations. I don't see their enconomy tanking or gold sales and/or purchases decreasing there in the short or long-term. They seem wise to me in purchasing what they can hold at home--witness Russians with no bank access to their holdings period. Safes in the closet don't belly up!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:46
JTF (Oops -- Fort Smith.) ID#254321:
Sorry! Only a few miles apart. Well -- you get the point anyway. I think come this November there will be alot fewer Democrats in Arkansas, by the way. The tide is slowly shifting, with a little help from the FBI. Too bad so little of the ADFA paperwork is left, though.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:43
Gollum (DOW +219) ID#35571:
Lots of nines and eights today, 9/8/98, sorta reminds me of 1/1/00 in a way. Almost one oclock. Day traders coming back from lunch....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:42
JTF (Fayetteville, AR?) ID#254321:
Studio R: I would have thought that the native Arkansan types might be headed to Washington, DC for a little country justice. Remember that famous hangin judge Roy Bean? Also another Arkansan. Not all Arkansans were on the shady side of the law.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:34
Marshall (Lets Plan Escape from the Economic TATANIC Collectively(Golden Prophet) ) ID#293211:
We should develop a core recommendation plan for all personnel who will attempt to jump ship to ease confusion. to

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:32
STUDIO.R (@T#1......The Run o' 99...............) ID#119358:
Yes, we will be gathering@Fort Smith, Ark. come December for the great Land Run o' are cordially invited to attend!!! You will be able to lay claim, should you elect to do so, on 160 acres of overbaked rocks and thirsty rattlers.

Don't bring no money... @da' you will be issued a pre-63 chevrolet, a jug o' shine, a glock, a riot shotgun and a rope. Most of the smarter folks will just take their chevy and head on over to Memphis. But you can come on in if you ain't got any better plans......G&P to YA!!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:25
RETIRED SOLDIER (Fred in Vienna) ID#347235:
Many many thanks in advance for any info you can give to me, when I posted my e-mai to auric I left out an important - so will give it out again. hope no one has been inconvenienced trying to reach me, this one is correct. Information is sought from any source! Thanks.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:24
Earl (Studio R:) ID#227238:
Gotta call a halt on that one. ..... I can't stop laughing.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:20
STUDIO.R (@cOd liver earl..................) ID#119358:
cods crap all over the doubt. yes indeedO, however, the liver oil was always preferable to a mayonaise enema ( my doktor mom's answer to constipatiOn!! ) .......100% guar-onteeeed results, but may have long term sexual phobia side not try this inside the house. G&P to YA!!!! earlO!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:18
JTF (AG's support of WJC) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
AUH20: Good points. AG was part of the team to keep popular WJC in office. Now AG has egg on his face, simply because he supported the president. I still have faith in AG and RR to do damage control, but they are now on their own -- they are both quite good at what they do, and undoubtedly did most of their thinking without any input from the president. But Congress may not suppoort them in the manner they were accustomed.

Let us hope that the AG/RR team does not fall apart too quickly with the demise if WJC. I think AG is conscientious enough that he will not jump ship abruptly -- even if he might go down in history of begginning and ending his FED Chairman with a market demise. He risks presiding over two crashes, but I think as long as he and RR stay together, the second crash will not materialize.

Who knows, AG ( and RR ) may go down in history as the few competent non-Congressionial, non-Supreme court leaders in our current government who have kept the barbarians at bay. Who else is showing any signs of leadership? WCJ?, Madeline Albright? Janet Reno? I wonder about Janet Reno's IQ -- she must not be very perceptive to have attached her wagon to the wrong horse. Now she is almost assured to lose her retirement medical coverage -- the very threat that probably caused her to support the president. Do you think she will be accused of obstruction of Justice? Everyone else seems to have got his or her fingers caught in the cookie jar -- so they are excluded, leaving only AG and RR.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:17
SDRer (Tolerant1---A+, wrapped in gold stars! and a BIG gulp to you!) ID#290172:
From Dostoyevsky´s ´´The Brothers Karamazov´´ YES!, YES!, YES!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:16
Gollum (sigh) ID#35571:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:15

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:15
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Namaste' and a post Holiday gulp and a puff to ya...have you fenced) ID#373284:
off the entire state of Oklahoma yet in anticipation of Y2K or are you still allowing some more covered wagons in?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:14
jims (EZ Believer) ID#252391:
Tell us about SSRIF

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:13
Earl (Studio R:) ID#227238:
LOL! You had yer goat's milk. My least valuable memory is of cod liver oil, in large dollups. Mother may not always have been correct but she was always positive.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:13
Marshall (Small Rebound and then Down Down Down) ID#293211:
Copyright © 1998 Marshall/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

by Robert Warner
© Copyright 1998 by Harvest Trust All Rights Reserved
CAJI News Service - Exclusive - September 1, 1998 - History demonstrates
that after a fall in one month of anything remotely resembling the 1800 point
loss of the Dow, 869 points in just two days, there is always a slight rebound.
In fact you can usually expect some kind of recovery after just about any kind
of drop as investors gamble that the market has reached its lowest point. Their
gamble should drive the Dow up slightly against its total loss. Reality dictates
that they will lose in the long run... big-time.
The political and economic situations in Russia, Japan, Malaysia... almost all
of Asia, Mexico, and Brazil, are devastating. The Russian clamor for the
return of communism, recent Atomic tests by Pakistan, Korea's firing of an
two stage ballistic missile, refusal of Israel to honor the Peace Accords, waves
of international terrorism, and the U.S. strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan
prove that we live in dangerous times indeed.
The New York Stock Exchange is still far above where it needs to be. The
market has been so artificially inflated that it's value is still way out of any
reasonable estimate of the actual value of the companies it represents.
William Cooper commented this morning, You can reasonably expect some
sort of a rebound but not a 'Bull' market. There will be no recovery... at least
not for a very long time.
After a few days or maybe even a couple of weeks you will see the market
plunge even lower. Remember that magic date of October 24th. There is a
reason that capitalism has been attacked most often on that date. It is a very
important date in the history of the Illuminati's international
I find it absolutely incredible that the sheople consider all the major market
crashes that have occurred upon October 24th some sort of a mystical
coincidence. It is the anniversary of the so-called October Revolution and the
founding of the Soviet Union... and a hell of a lot more. Follow that date
throughout history and you will be amazed at what you will find; but how
many Americans today give a damn about history?
How many indeed? Most of the People I know consider history to be
sometime last week.
Directory Of Press Releases

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:10
Earl (EB:) ID#227238:
Naw, ya got it all wrong. Now's the time to step into the breach and buy, buy, buy. .... Not sell.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:09
Cage Rattler () ID#33182:
Didn't Greenspan say he wouldn't INCREASE rates ... there is no implication that rates will go down.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:08
Woody (@ Gollum -- Point is they ain't or the utilities 'be movin.) ID#243166:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:08
STUDIO.R (@EBroker.............) ID#119358:
Like you were sayin', my great grandmother in L.A., made me drink goat's milk when I was a kid. yuk, yuk. no gulpOs of goat milk to YA!!!!! I forg0t what grand dad said 'bout stox, but I remember what he said about havin' to drink goat's milk. yes, he knew better....uh huh...and just a wee puff to YA!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:06
tolerant1 ( ID#373284:
´´The one who lies to himself and believes his own lies comes
to a point where he can distinguish no truth either within
himself or around him, and thus enters into a state of
disrespect towards himself and others. Respecting no one, he
loves no one, and to amuse and divert himself in the absence
of love, he gives himself up to his passions and his vulgar
delights and becomes a complete animal in his vices, and all
of it from lying to other people and himself.´´ --From
Dostoyevsky´s ´´The Brothers Karamazov´´

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:05
moa (Sir Gregory of Bear) ID#269128:
has come down from the Heavens to dwell amongst us for a while. I like the bears.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:03
moa (Stocking up while it's cheap.....) ID#269128:
use the dip before the next surge.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:01
EB (almost forgot...) ID#187109:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00
LSteve (rebounding?) ID#316256:
NEM and ABX both rebounding nicely. Daytraders on the east coast at lunch now. Think things on the S&P will start to retreat in about an hour. Oldman said if S&P closed below 969 then things would be really bad. Got there during the day on Friday but didn't close there. I think it will happen tommorrow.

Go Gold!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00
JTF (Mexico index Mex.x) ID#254321:
All: Looks like a dead cat bounce. Wonder if this is a sign that the US markets are to have a one day rally only.

If gold equities continue to rise, it can only be due to WJC's problems, or AG promise to lower rates. I sure would like gold bullion to confirm, and move out of that two year bear trendline.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00
EB (Earl et tu big fella?) ID#187109:


I AM SOLD!!! LOOK OUT BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 12:00
Gollum (@Woody ) ID#35571:
What makes you think the Fed is going to cut rates any time soon?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:59
AUH20 (Discredited Clinton Supporters) ID#253260:
Copyright © 1998 AUH20/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Add the name of Alan Greenspan as the newest member of the clinton administration who has lost all credibility due to his unflinching support of an economic policy whose only objective is to keep wjc in office.

Once a confirmed goldbug, Greenspan had been considered one of the best governors of the FRB until recently.

At this point, the actions of Greenspan are so completely transparent that his objective is to keep his boss in power ( not control ) at any cost to his own personal reputation. Indeed , we can anticipate that AG will revert to the ad hominium practices of former discredited and unbelievable WJC supporters like James ( maddog ) Caravelle.

It is incredible that an honest, intelligent and reasonable scholar and successful banker such as AG would be willing to ask how high? when wjc says jump.

There are still a few honorable and competent individuals in the clinton administration. It will only be a matter of time until they too are forced to support cllinton or to resign.

An economic policy designed to perpetuate a morally bankrupt presidential administration is doomed to failure.

The sad part is that the dreams of every american citizen is being subverted to the desire of a lying, corrupt , reprehensible and selfish man child who alllows his sexual desires to dictate the future of every human inhabitant on earth.

Clinton will be allowed to resign by Jan l, l999 but his legacy will live forever and our children's grand children will be still paying for the damage that he and Alan Greenspan inflicted on every future generation of everyone on this planet.

Makes you wonder what magical power the ex president had over Alan Greenspan. That will be a question for the history books.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:57
Woody (If the Fed's gonna cut rates why are the utilities UNCH on the day?) ID#243166:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:54
tolerant1 (Mtn. Bear, Namaste' had a fabulous holiday...lots of good and of) ID#373284:
course...tequila...and since it is now the afternoon...a gulp of Cuervo to ya...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:52
EB (Dave in CO.........(same ole)...) ID#187109:
Ya got me! Good one on ya. :- ( My grandfather barely had enough money to feed the family let alone play stox. Never met my great one. I was making a point. They did tell me to save my money though and invest it wisely. Gold stox are not a wise 'investment'.....or are they? You tell me Dave........where do you put your retirement $$ Pray tell.....

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong term Dave.......loooooooooooooooooooooooong term.....but you can continue to buy gold I won't stop ya. More power to ya.

away...from 1929......


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:45
jims (EZ Believer & Gollum) ID#252391:
Shorted the SPY right here at 100 1/2.

EZ what's the story on SSRIF - what law suit Is this a better play than PAASF or SSC? Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:42
Earl (Runnin' outa steam?) ID#227238:
Appears like someone needs to shovel some coal under the boiler. The rally is in danger of filling a major gap.

Off to watch EB step into the breach. ..... or off the brink.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:39
Gollum (After Nintendo and PlayStation, then what?) ID#35571:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:33
Gollum (DOW +250) ID#35571:
Down 56 points from morning highs. Looking very top heavy. The September rally mat be about over.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:32
The Hatt (EB/ What is going on!) ID#374348:
Got halfway to the bridge and all of a sudden ABX was only down $.15?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:31
Earl (Catch 61 and the baseball thingy:) ID#227238:
It's reported this morning that the IRS will be looking for the fan that caught Magwire's 61st homer yesterday.

It seems that as long as the ball remains in the park, it's the property of the team. Having left the park, it belongs to the fan. Should the fan choose to return it to the team, he then becomes liable for a gift tax. Even though the fan has received no money in the transaction. The number $625,000 was used to indicate value of the ball. ..... Doncha just love it?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:29
Richard Burke (Post retrieval) ID#411318:
Tolerant1: works - thanks. Mtn Bear had a url near the start of his more words and when I clicked the other words I somehow got the url.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:28
Selby (Rees-Moog speaks about Clinton) ID#286230:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:27
Mtn Bear (SE) (Link) ID#347267:
Sorry ''bout that.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:26
Mtn Bear (SE) (WMT chart) ID#347267:
Thanks Tol1 for helping Richard. Hope you had a glorious holiday.

Richard, Yahoo charts ain't too great. Try the following site for a better chart; you have to enter the symbol you want before clicking the GET CHART button.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:25
JTF (Plumbing?) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EB: Now, you don't mean like in Watergate, do you? I think XXXgate is going ot make Watergate look like childsplay. WJC has lost most of his defensive support, and his enemies are circling the White House. He is no longer teflon coated. I also agree with you on gold equities -- at the very least, cry0 must clearly bottom before the 'buy on bottoms, sell on rallys' ends.

What worries me about gold bullion is that demand could dry up intermediate term -- India will no longer be a major consumer of gold very soon -- their markets are weakening. One problem with gold is that you have to have spending money to buy it. Anyone who is broke will be selling, not buying.

I think the new big net buying in gold will come from Europe ( Russian panic ) or for the US -- eventually. Those growing gold coins purchases are an early warning indicator.

It is really tough being a gold bug when the US dollar is still considered the world's backup currency. Notice how much the US dollar has dropped relative to the Swiss Franc? Over 5% so far. I'm not sure the German mark can now be used as a 'gold standard' given their blown Russian investments, and proximity to the lit fuse that is Russia.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:23
Suspicious (It looks like this rally may peter out Today even. ) ID#287312:
I was figuring on a rally to 8200-8300 to peak wednesday or thursday. If this rally fails to break 8200 the market is very weak indeed.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:18
HopeFull (P.S. looks like the gold stocks are gonna make potential buyers suffer....) ID#402148:
without an entrey level pull back.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:18
Dave in CO (@la-dee-da-EB) ID#229141:
I guess your father, grandfather, and great grandfather neglected to tell you about what happened to those their long term investments between 1929 and 1952. They must have sold just in time, right?

No wait. They told you to be a loooooooooooooooooooong-term investor. Tell us, what happened to your family's long-term investments after 1929?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:17
HopeFull (USD dollar tanking..........BARTON, who adroitly called the past years Yen ) ID#402148:
weakness, was looking for a run to 155/$ eventually, has canceeled and looks for move down to 122/$ IF we can get a close below 131.

Any thoughts on where gold will be at 122 Yen/$?


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:13
Gollum (@RJ ) ID#35571:
I'm kind of looking for a partial eclipse this afternoon.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:13
EB ( more out) ID#187109:
for the cut&paste king. He will gittcha!

Thanks Realistic. History is a good teacher. AGULP to ya. work

go abx.....arf arf!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:13
Realistic (@Isure) ID#410194:
I'm asking questions.

If you see other stuff in them, it's YOUR judgment and YOUR interpretation , right?


( Have a good week! )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:12
EZ Believer (Polarbear Thanks for the info. Friday night. ) ID#173262:

Lucky I found it. Sometimes odd time posts get missed.

DROOY up RANGY slightly down. It seems obvious right now that DROOY does not provide leadership for Rangy. Thats good, because there could be a coat-tail effect later on. Right now is a good time to accumulate. Hope to be adding as you read this.

SSRIF looking strong. Not that the short term is very important but it is a good sign. Wait untill they win the judgement. The cash and publicity will wake up a lot of investors who have followed SSRIF in the past.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:10
tolerant1 (Richard Burke, Namaste' scroll to the top of the page and click on full text and then) ID#373284:
go back to the post you wish to will also allow you to click on the link in short mode all you get is an error message...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:09
EB (thanks Hatt) ID#187109:
for the gracious compliment ;- )

My portfolio would bore even you. I am looooong term w/ my IRA's, keough's, 401k's, etc. I 'shoot' for ONLY thirteen percent over the long haul. I have already done the math loooooooong ago and I know what I need and I have set a game plan loooooooooooong ago. My game plan will not change and you should NOT change your game plan either. But.......DO know that there are winners and losers...........I will do EVERYTHING I can to be on the winning team. And that does not mean I must sell my just means I need to pay attention and use sound strategies that I have been taught loooooooong ago by my father and grandfather and great grandfather, etc.

PM stocks, imo, are not long term growth. They are VERY speculative plays. I think JD and Nick@C and even GSC would tell you that.

My portfolio does not consist of ANY gold stox currently......NONE. But that doesn't mean they won't ( they will ) . This is why I am here. Not to read all the rantings of cheerleaders but to read sound, thought out, reasoned posts from people who, imo, have made good market moves in the past and will be there in the future to make MORE good market moves. That is all Hatt............. ( wink ) .

Now.....where did I put that plunger? learn plumbing


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:08
RJ (..... Erasing last week's losses .....) ID#411259:

I believe the fact
That equities are soaring
Is based on the total absence
Of eclipses worldwide today


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:07
Richard Burke (Post Retrieval Problem) ID#411318:
Mtn Bear: When I try to retrieve your post the computer tries to access Yahoo and says it can not. For other posts, my computer accesses kitcomm and up they come. Any idea what the problem is?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:03
Isure (@ Realistic) ID#421269:

Having fun! Hope so ! Can you eat crow as gracefully as you dish out the crap ? A couple thousand times of making your point, really is boring.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:02
Gollum (@Charleston Gold Bug ) ID#35571:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Price movements in the precious metal stocks have relatively little to do with fundamentals today. The fierce rise in the DOW was driven in large part by day traders. So long as the market holds fairly steady till afternoon we'll see a pretty good sell off.

Precious metal stocks had a monstrous price runup last week. Traders, or should I say day trading Nintendo gunslingers, did some profit taking to get some buying power to go looking for whatever might be most volatile on the upside in the day trading world. So long as the metal prices hold we should see a good rebound in the stocks in the afternoon.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:01
Goldteck (Fear of fall follows markets' summer of discontent) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Optimists say some beneficial things have also happened, setting in motion forces that may extend the bull market’s life rather than killing it off.


NEW YORK ( AP ) Fear of fall follows markets' summer of discontent - Hardly anybody is in a mood to celebrate as Wall Street marks the traditional business New Year at Labor Day.

It has been a stormy summer in the world’s stock and bond markets. As investors and brokers pack away their vacation gear and get down to business, the big debate on the Street focuses on whether a 16-year bull market has ended.

Without question, many investors large and small have suffered painful losses in the market’s recent retrenchment. Wall Street’s pivotal markets have been battered for nearly two months. Canada’s most important exchange has lost almost 30 per cent of its value since its May record high.

But staunch optimists say some beneficial things have also happened, setting in motion forces that may extend the bull market’s life rather than killing it off.

The average New York Stock Exchange and Nasdaq stock is down more than 40 per cent from its high, says Thomas Galvin, chief investment officer at Donaldson, Lufkin and Jenrette Securities Corp.

The breadth and sentiment deterioration are quite comparable to those in the 1987 crash. Aside from the current global political quagmire, apprehension is mounting about a U.S. recession next year.

But Galvin offers three lessons from the 1987 experience:

- Sentiment is worse at the bottom;

- Stock market declines do not accurately forecast recessions;

- Individual investors have cooler minds than trigger-happy institutional investors.

To be fair to them, institutional money managers face pressures that force them to think about short-term trends in the market, in a way that individuals with long-term horizons need not do.

Clients of pension funds and holders of mutual funds can pull their money out of a manager’s care on short notice if they don’t like the way things are going.

So assurances about the soundness of the domestic U.S. economy and the long-term upward bias of stock prices provide limited reassurance, and carry no promise that more nasty declines won’t occur in stocks.

Nevertheless, once you get past the emotions now running so high in the markets, some important positive things can be said. To whatever extent the bull market was based on what chairman Alan Greenspan of the U.S. Federal Reserve called irrational exuberance, that excess has been diminished.

Just a couple of months ago, many people thought the Fed might raise interest rates to cool things down. Now nobody expects any moves in that direction, and the talk instead is that the central bank should cut rates.

Or policymakers may wind up taking no action, silently thanking the stock market for having done the dirty work for them. Stable credit conditions are benign.

Already money flowing out of stocks and into bonds has driven long-term interest rates downward - indeed, to their lowest levels in 30 years.

Forgetting for a moment how the situation feels in emotional terms, each drop in a stock’s price makes it more attractive to buy and less attractive to sell.

Declines may compound fear for a while, creating what looks like a vicious cycle. But sooner or later the pendulum must swing back, unless you believe the world is headed for oblivion and the Dow Jones industrial average is going to zero.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 11:00
kitkat (Turn on a Dime Paradigm) ID#208393:
Copyright © 1998 kitkat/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
After last Christmas I was amazed at how investors suddenly shrugged off the worries about the Asian crisis. Can a few holidays and a bit of the bubbly have that much of an effect on short term memory? Today, it's the same thing. The world currency crisis is ignored as the market rises on expectations of an interest rate drop. What will be the reaction when Greenspan tells them that they misinterpreted his remarks?

From Money Daily....

Many of the observers that Money Daily talked to said that,

even though the Fed is believed to have adopted a neutral

status at its most recent meeting last month ( meaning it is

inclined neither to raise nor to lower rates ) ,

that Greenspan will resist pulling rates down quickly.

Even after the recent stock market sag, they point out,

the Dow Jones Industrials remain at a higher level than

they were when the Fed chairman made his famous comment

about the market's irrational exuberance. ....

And a poll of economists at several banks and investment firms

found none who expect the Fed to take action at the September

meeting. The betting on a cut before the New Year was only 50-50.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:59
The Hatt (Stalling Already) ID#374348:
Is it my imagination or is this Bear trap already starting to stall! ABX has given back $.40 today of its $4.00 move last week, I THINK I WILL JUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH SURE!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:57
mapleman (@HIGH HOPES) ID#348127:

OK Mr. Smarty pants. You must think you have all the answers. I can tell you that the predictions made here, for the mos part will pan out. The timing will be off on many of the predictions, but the observations are pretty sound. The problem here is that many of the predictions would have come true had it not been for the unprecedented market manipulation that has taken place over the last couple of years.
Seeing as how you get a kick out of predictions, here's amother for you. Bricks that the PPT has been juggleing are getting awful heavy. Dow 5500 by years end.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:54
Charleston Gold Bug (DIVEGENCE between Gold Price & Gold Stocks!) ID#344389:
All the precious metals are SO FAR failing to
confirm the stock price movement.

Comments welcome :- )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:53
JTF (Market Crashes up!) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Impressive -- makes you think that the dipsters are out in force today. Looks like a field day for the day traders. For investors like myself, I think WJC's imminent crisis will make mincemeat out of the markets, very soon, so I am remaining in cash.

Anyone with a little cash to burn may want to wait for this rally to fizzle, and buy appropirate index puts. The continuing market bear is about as sure a thing as things can get, considering what will happen when all of those market investors find out that WJC is no longer an accepted member of the Democratic party. I doubt there is anything the 'comeback kid' can do this time.

I think a market crash is unlikely -- a crushing bear with intermittent rallies -- as the Oldman predicted -- is more likely.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:49
sharefin (General) ID#284255:
You'll find some good info on food providors 1/2 way down this page.

It's a good site for a browse.

Also lots of food info here.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:46
powmain (AG an market) ID#21275:
I am a real skeptic about the power to control this market by some oplique statement about interist rates. He will have to back up that statment with more cash than the fed has. I shorted the spy at up 34 on the s&p

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:44
Realistic (Questions for Puetz) ID#410194:
Copyright © 1998 Realistic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Please let us know if the effects of the lunar-eclipse are now delayed or cancelled and give us more details about the possible 1000 points drop in the Dow this week.

Also, give us some more clues as to how do you see the blood in the streets scenario to unfold?

Thank you.

Copyright © 1998 Puetz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The lunar-eclipse has come and gone early this morning.
Ironically, that's the area of my research that's getting
the most attention these days. Dan Ascini ( Elliott Wave
analyst ) , Robert Prechter ( The Elliott Wave Theorist ) ,
Peter Eliades ( Stock Market Cycles ) , and Jim Davidson
( Strategic Investment ) -- all have noted about the Sept.
6th lunar-eclipse, the 6-week topping-pattern, etc. in their
most recent newsletters. All of this has been positive

2 weeks from now, Haines may view things differently. The
6-week topping pattern is now complete. The lunar-eclipse
has passed. The topping-pattern in 1998 has been far
weaker than similar patterns in 1929 and 1987, suggesting
that the coming 1998 crash will be far worse than either
of those crashes.

Right now, it still looks like DJIA 3000 by the end of this
month is a reasonable projection. With the 30% circuit
breaker set at -2600 before the DJIA closes for the day,
it won't take to long to get to 3000.

Next week, I believe the DJIA could fall 1000 points. The
week after ( week ending Sept. 18 ) the DJIA could fall
2500 to 3500 points.

The DJIA has now started the Panic-Phase of the crash.
Huge daily declines will become the norm. Panic, hysteria,
and blood-in-the-streets will become widespread.


Steve Puetz

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:44
Goldteck (Indians sink savings into gold as economy suffers ) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Indians sink savings into gold as economy suffers
08:22 a.m. Sep 08, 1998 Eastern
By Sabyasachi Mitra
BOMBAY, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Economic uncertainty is driving Indians to their old love -- gold -- but the romance is damaging the nation's sputtering economy, analysts said on Tuesday.
The trade deficit has widened, draining currency reserves, and stashing funds in an unproductive asset is hindering investment in an economy desperate to regain momentum, they said.
Data for the first two months of 1998/99 ( April/March ) show that gold and silver imports soared to $1.11 billion from $139 million in the same period a year earlier.
``This sharp increase in gold and silver imports at a time when gold prices are falling internationally, shows the desperation of Indian households to protect their assets from continuous erosion,'' Anindya Chatterjee, head of markets research at ANZ Investment bank, said in a report.
World Gold Council ( WGC ) data shows that from January to July, India imported 384 tonnes of gold via official channels, up from from 273 tonnes in the same period a year earlier.
The jump in gold imports has pushed up overall imports and widened the trade deficit, analysts said.
Rajan Govil, economist at HSBC Securities, said non-petroleum, oil and lubricant imports, excluding gold, between October 1997 and May 1998 grew by 5.5 percent on a year earlier.
But including gold, the rise was around 14 percent, he said.
``Definitely gold is a major culprit,'' Govil said.
The trade deficit in April-July rose to $3.3 billion from $1.8 billion a year earlier.
``Widening of the trade deficit in financial year 1998/99 is largely explained by the increase in gold imports, which is equivalent to a flight of capital,'' Chatterjee said.
Analysts said a widening trade deficit would undermine the rupee, which has already lost over six percent of its value against the dollar in the wake of India's nuclear tests in May.
India's demand for gold jumped by 33 percent to 458.2 tonnes in the first two quarters of calendar 1997, the WGC said in its latest report.
Gold prices on the Bombay Bullion Exchange stood at 4,200 rupees ( $98.84 ) per 10 grammes on Monday, marginally firmer than the 4,170 rupees it fetched six months ago.
International prices have fallen from around $309 an ounce to around $288 over the same period.
The WGC said low prices and liberalised imports continued to underpin demand. The Indian government last October liberalised bullion import rules, authorising eight banks to import and sell gold in the domestic market in addition to the three state-run agencies.
It has since added more banks and agencies to the list.
But a head of commodity trading at a foreign bank said the spurt in gold imports was triggered by precautionary buying in May on anticipation of an increase in import tariffs.
India raised import duties on gold to 250 rupees per 10 grams from 220 rupees in its 1998/99 budget, announced in June. But the duty hike has not taken the shine off gold for Indians.
Analysts said a sharp fall in exports, stagnant investment, political instability and a fragile rupee had harmed confidence, driving investors back to traditional safe havens.
ANZ's Chatterjee said households were shifting their savings from shares and debentures to bank deposits and gold.
The Reserve Bank of India's annual report released on Friday showed the household sector's investment in shares and debentures as a percentage of gross financial assets fell to 1.8 percent in 1997/98 from 7.3 percent in 1995/96.
Taxes reduce Bombay to last link in gold chain
06:10 a.m. Sep 08, 1998 Eastern
By Anshuman Daga
Reuters ) - Bombay's craving for gold is slowly being eroded by higher local taxes which make India's glitziest city the last stop in the bullion trading chain, traders and industry officials said on Tuesday.
Bombay remains the main trading hub and jewellery manufacturing centre in the world's largest gold consuming nation.
But the direct route for imported gold to its main market is being increasingly shunned and a logistical nightmare is undermining Bombay's kingpin position.
``With alternative centres now well developed, gold is being imported there and then re-directed to Bombay,'' said Nayan Pansare, group financial controller at InterGold India Ltd, a jewellery manufacturer and exporter.
``Bombay has lost its charm as one of the premier bullion trading centres. Business has moved away,'' Pansare said.
India consumed 737 tonnes of gold in calendar 1997, out of which 526 tonnes was imported through official channels and the rest was met by smuggled or recycled scrap gold, according to World Gold Council ( WGC ) data.
Gold which used to be largely imported via Dubai in the United Arab Emirates now mostly comes from Zurich, London and South Africa, Indian traders said.
But high local taxes in Bombay, India's financial capital, have diverted bullion import business to other centres.
The western state of Maharashtra, of which Bombay is the capital, has a sales tax of two percent on bullion imports. Maharashtra also recently doubled the octroi tax -- a levy on goods entering the city -- to one percent.
``With our high tax structure, nobody wants to get into that kind of a bracket,'' said Derick Machado, financial institutions manager at the WGC.
Ahmedabad, in neighbouring Gujarat, has taken a large chunk of the import business, and Bombay buyers have to factor in another eight-hour journey by train to get their gold and avoid paying the taxes.
``Gold which is imported from Ahmedabad will not come to Bombay through the official channels. People do not declare it and so avoid paying the tax,'' Pansare said.
``Since Ahmedabad is close to Bombay, traders import gold and bring it by train or other routes,'' he added.
During January-July 1998, gold imports into India through the Bombay airport totalled 49 tonnes out of the total imports of 384 tonnes in the same period, WGC data shows.
Gold imports in the country through the Ahmedabad airport were about 120 tonnes and Delhi accounted for 98 tonnes, WGC said.
The Bombay Bullion Association has urged the state government to reduce the sales tax on bullion to half a percent and abolish octroi duty.
Makahnlal Damani, president of the association, said many other states including Gujarat, Rajasthan, New Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and Karnataka did not levy octroi duty on bullion trade and had a reduced sales tax rate.
New Delhi, Bangalore, Madras and Hyderabad are among the other centres now accounting for a big chunk of gold imports.
The Indian government last October liberalised bullion import rules, authorising eight banks to import and sell gold in the domestic market in addition to the three state-run agencies.
The government has since added more banks and agencies to the list.
``This is a high value business where margins are tight,'' said the head of bullion trading at a Bombay-based foreign bank importing gold.
``The big tax difference in Bombay is killing the bullion import business,'' he said.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:42
Highhopes (Has anything changed with currencies) ID#404410:
I will remain dubious about the world situation until the world currency situation is fixed. With no central leadership in the world, unless you consider the IMF a leader, and with each country trying to apply its own fixes ( bandaids ) , I don't feel very encouraged.
How can we off and running when the same old problems still abound?


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:42
Mtn Bear (SE) (@Richard B (WMT)) ID#347267:
Hi Richard. I am short WMT at 60. Rationale huge Double top. See:
Will cover if exceeds 63, high during bounce last week. Your thots?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:38
Silverbaron (BAD CASE OF THE D.T.'S ?) ID#289357:

When all these day traders run for the door this afternoon.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:36
Realistic (Stock market crash update) ID#410194:
And those who went long at about the same time can close down lots of profits today!

Date: Fri Sep 04 1998 14:51
EB ( Big Lou and the $25,000 query ) ID#230216:


the DOW - it will crash on Tuesday..........................UP! It is a buy Opp......check it out.

And the USdollar will resume it's climb. Profits are taken, correction is made.........uh huh.

And gold will sputter and cough....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:34
EB (wow) ID#187109:
Dell splits AGAIN.... ( ?! ) It just split in March. WOW. Hmmmmmmmmm. Now is Dell too toppy at 58/shr
YOU make the call.
gogold... w/w

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:33
tolerant1 (to the fin that shares, Namaste' that site of yours is great and very helpful...I have found) ID#373284:
quite a few new and very useful early morning gulp of coffee and Drambuie to ya from the Island that is Long and thankful for good souls such as yours...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:32
Realistic (Stock market crash update) ID#410194:
Let's hope nobody went short last Friday at around 2pm.

Date: Fri Sep 04 1998 14:44
AT 2:00 PM TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mars opposed to Uranus!!!! Lookin' for 4700-6000 by the end of the month!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:32
The Hatt (EB/ You are right as usual!) ID#374348:
For a man so right I am surprised that you have the time to post your thoughts for all at Kitco to read...I thought that you would be too busy making money in the markets...... Oh well my money is on gold and will remain there! By the way EB why not share your portfolio with us so we can jump aboard and make lots of money. OR DO YOU EVEN HAVE A PORTFOLIO!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:28
sharefin (Very strong internals) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:26
tolerant1 (General, Namaste' YES I can and if you email me I will send you some information) ID#373284:
which is too long to put here...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:21
Gollum (@tsclaw ) ID#35571:
I think you are right. Perhaps even faster than that.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:18
EB (Have always felt sorry for the average Joes....) ID#187109:
who did NOT buy paper these last TEN years. To feel sorry for someone who made LOTS-O-CASH is kinda ridiculous.....don't cha think? watch ABX go to the moon................ ( ARF! ARF! ) ...©teddO...

go gold.... ( hmmmm ) ...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:17
Highhopes (Lower rates) ID#404410:
Lower rates have normally been good for gold.
Secondly, it's healthy to have pullbacks in stocks. Their moves are not usually sustained without some profit taking here and there.
I doubt if Mike Metz has changed his views on gold, just bacause of today's advance. Do you think Prechtor has changed his views because of today?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:17
cjk (Dow Rally) ID#340262:
Hurry, Hurry, Step Right Up, and get your equities before it's
to late. - I am very suspicious of this rally to well advertized
when every one expects an event such as this it usually plays
out in a manner thats least expected -cjk-

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:08
General (Perma-Pak for long-term food storage for y2k/other emergencies) ID#365216:
Can anyone recommend Perma-Pak dehydrated foods as a good long-term
( 15 yrs + ) food storage company? Thanks

These foods along with gold/silver and other essentials are part
of a smart household contingency for disaster preparedness.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:06
Highhopes (This forum) ID#404410:
Tickles me: One day Puetz is the superstar, then the next day Abbey Cohen captures the same title. People jumping fences everywhere. So which is it? Take a stand one way or the other, but don't reverse it the very next day.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 10:01
tolerant1 (This was posted Saturday evening...I think it deserves a repost...Lord William Rees-Mogg) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
is a highly respected individual...this is a scathing indictment of Clintler and I am sure this article will have tremendous impact as time moves on...America is not just the laughing stock of the world...but I believe the international community now considers Clintler a threat and a serious threat at that...what America is losing by allowing Clintler to remain in office is far more than losing face. Allow the page to is a bit slow...but well worth the wait...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:58
tsclaw (UP, UP AND AWAY) ID#327123:
Your seeing the start of the Mother of all sucker rallies. Use this opportunity to remove all long positions and start shorting. That includes gold stocks!

I'm seeing 3 or 4 days of this rally and then a fast turn around that will suck up all this new money like a sponge. There will be alot of people wondering where their retirement money has gone not to far down the road...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:55
Silverbaron (Looks like that's about it for the rally) ID#289357:
Also a bearish engulfing candlestick on the XAU hourly chart...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:51
Richard Burke (DOW) ID#411318:
Gollum: resistance at 7975 and 8190 - if latter broken watch out.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:46
Gollum (DOW +299) ID#35571:
What's the world record?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:46
6pak (All is well @ Not to worry eh!) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 7, 1998

Economy on the fence between U.S. and global forces

If the U.S. economy continues to weaken because of the Asian crisis and troubles in Latin America, that would seriously impact Canada, which ships 80 per cent of its exports to the United States.

Still, there's no sign of a looming recession, insists Rosenberg.

We believe Canada will weather the storm primarily because the U.S. will do so, said Rosenberg. It takes a lot to push the U.S. locomotive into reverse -- probably more than imported deflation from Asia.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:44
Gollum (Dow +267) ID#35571:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:42
Gollum (DOW +200) ID#35571:
In the first nineteen minutes. I guess they've got their sights set higher than the moon, Mars?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:41
Have always felt sorry for the average Joes being sucked into buying more paper and buying paper is what they are doing! CNBC have done their job however the day will come when these promoters in disguise will get theirs.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:37
Richard Burke (WMT Puts) ID#411318:
Mtn Bear: The S60 puts were up 33% at one point on Friday - ended just slightly up. WMT is halted this AM. Any ideas?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:33
Mtn Bear (SE) (Jims) ID#347267:
Thanks; had problems with Ameritrade and switched to Waterhouse since had IRA there. Easy to get them on the phone if necessary.
Re mkt; glad I am essentially flat ( longs offset with BEARX and RYURX ) on days like today. May sell some of the longs today.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:32
Nick@C (Those who missed out on gold's recent rise) ID#386245:
will hopefully take advantage of this correction. Going back a bit to gather strength for another run at 290. All MVHO, of course. Nite all.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:31
Goldteck ( Stock markets around the world generally rose Monday) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tuesday, September 8, 1998
Hints of Lower U.S. Interest Rates Lift Foreign Stocks
Markets: Greenspan's remarks touch off a global rally. The Japanese yen hits a four-month high against the dollar.
From Times Staff and Wire Reports
Stock markets around the world generally rose Monday in a rally buoyed by Federal Reserve Board chief Alan Greenspan hinting that the Fed may consider lowering U.S. interest rates. U.S. financial markets were closed for Labor Day.
     Today global investors' attention is likely to be riveted on Brazil to see whether a 50% hike in interest rates imposed late Friday will be enough to restore confidence in Latin America's biggest economy and stem a headlong flight of capital that totaled an estimated $6 billion last week.
     Greenspan's remarks on Friday seemed to open the door to lower U.S. rates if the global financial situation continues to deteriorate and if U.S. inflation remains under control. The net effect was a welcome confidence boost for markets after a week of nervousness and bad news. Analysts said lower U.S. interest rates would give investors more reason to take on foreign investment risk.
     There is obviously a great sense of relief that the bias for tightening rates in the U.S. has been removed, said Ian Williams, strategist at Panmure Gordon in London. But, citing the U.S. markets' holiday, Wiiliams said he doubted there is a whole lot of conviction behind Monday's rally.
     Investors also noted the lack of a resolution to the political stalemate in Russia as another reason to temper the celebration over Monday's rally. For that reason, many see no immediate end to the turmoil in global equities.
     [Monday] it was technical. After a lot of losses, there's naturally a counter-reaction, said a trader in Frankfurt. It could continue for a few days. That's my scenario.
     London's stock exchange closed up 3.5% on Monday and Germany's largest bourse, in Frankfurt, gained 1.6%.
     In Asia, Japan's benchmark Nikkei-225 stock average was higher in early trading today after adding 5.32% Monday for its second-largest point rise this year.
     The widespread rally in Japan and in Asian stocks in general served to lift the yen to a four-month high against the dollar. The dollar fell as low as 130.50 yen, its lowest since April 24, from 133.57 late Friday in New York. The greenback also fell to its lowest level against the German mark since last November.
     Elsewhere in Asia, Hong Kong's Hang Seng index leaped 7.86% on Monday after the government moved to boost liquidity in the banking system. Malaysian shares, boosted by new government currency controls, shot up 22% and Korean shares gained 4%. Those results helped boost European shares, easing concerns about a widening global slowdown.
     Stocks generally rose as well in Latin America, where last week the contagion caused by the Russian devaluation wrought havoc, prompting massive stock sell-offs.
     We reviewed our policies last week and decided it's time to be a more aggressive buyer, said Andres Ronchiatto, fund manager at Banco Quilmes in Caracas, Venezuela. Some of these prices are very reasonable.
     The Mexican Bolsa index rose 4.9% Monday after three days of losses. Indices in Chile, Argentina, Peru and Venezuela also gained.
     The Mexican peso continued to lose ground against the greenback, however, closing at 10.26 to the dollar, down from Friday's close of 10.22. The peso has lost 15% in value over the last two months.
     Colombia's stocks were left out of the rally, however, falling 1.1%, as investors worried that the government's tightening of the money supply late Friday would cause an economic downturn. Interest rates there rose Monday to 50% from 30% on Friday after the government acted to protect its currency in the aftermath of last week's 9% devaluation.
     Brazil's financial markets were closed Monday for a national holiday and had not had a chance to react to the government's action late Friday in which overnight lending rates were raised to 29.75% from the previous 19%. The rate hike will result in higher rates for consumer and business borrowers, but presumably will help to keep cash in the country.
     Now the foreign investor will rethink whether it is worth selling Brazilian debt at banana prices and the price of our Brady [bonds] will improve, Francisco Lopes, the Central Bank's monetary policy director, told the O Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper.
     The Brazilian government acted after it spent $6 billion in foreign reserves just last week alone to protect its currency, the real, the Jornal do Brasil reported. Brazil has spent $18 billion of reserves since Aug. 1 to defend its beleaguered currency, the paper said.
     The newspaper quoted President Fernando Henrique Cardoso as saying that foreign reserve losses forced the government to act in imposing higher interest rates, a measure that will be rescinded once foreign reserves are replenished. He reiterated that there are no imminent plans for a devaluation or other fiscal adjustments.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:25
The Hatt (Highhopes/ You are quite right!) ID#374348:
However the day is not over till the fat lady sings the blues... Unlike paper traders we hold our positions waiting for the ppt to finally give up and believe me they will!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:23
6pak (USofA & Germany, Global Elite @ International Corporate Finance) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 8, 1998

FOCUS-Deutsche Bank committed to U.S. purchase

FRANKFURT, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Deutsche Bank AG on Tuesday signalled it was taking a more aggressive approach in its planned U.S. expansion, saying it must make an acquisition and could do so quickly if it found the right partner.

Deutsche chief executive Rolf Breuer

Breuer's comments are likely to stoke speculation that Deutsche may join forces with a top player such as Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers or PaineWebber.

Breuer also rejected as total rubbish rumours that the bank was suffering trading losses as a result of the Russian financial crisis.

But analysts predicted that Deutsche, with a credit exposure of 1.35 billion marks to Russia, will have to increase its loan loss provisions for Russia and that the emerging markets crisis was bound to hurt its 1998 earnings.

Referring to Deutsche's acquisition plans, Breuer said any deal would be similar to the share swap used in the merger of Daimler-Benz AG and Chrysler Corp., enabling Deutsche to pay for an acquisition in shares rather than cash.

In addition, Deutsche may also have been spurred by reports that Frankfurt rival Dresdner Bank AG was in exploratory talks to buy PaineWebber Group Inc., the fourth-largest U.S. brokerage firm.

Breuer on Tuesday sought to reaffirm Deutsche's commitment to join the global elite in corporate finance, mergers and acquisitions, saying investment banking would increasingly become a supporting pillar for the group despite turmoil in financial markets.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:19
kitkat (Russian banking system faces collapse) ID#208393:
Tuesday September 8, 5:13 am Eastern Time
Chubais says Russian banking system faces collapse.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:14
Highhopes (Enthusiasm waning today) ID#404410:
Can't sense the bullishness today that so many were exhibing last week and over the weekend - talking about gold.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:08
panda (@?) ID#30126:
Are they trying for a limit up close on the Globex?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:07
Gollum (Frown) ID#35571:
This ones a little better:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:06
panda (@CRB) ID#30126:
CRB is up to 202+ but all of the precious metals are off. Copper is up. Go figure.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:03
Gollum (The Art of day trading) ID#35571:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:03
Nick@C (John) ID#386245:
See email about MIM.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:02
HighRise (Gold) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 08, 1998
08:58AM New York Time

Timezone Equivalents



Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:01
Nick@C (T-Bone) ID#386245:
Yes, mate. I am heavily into Resolute ( RSG ) . Couldn't believe when they hit .94 last week, so I loaded up. Already up 27% and they haven't even started. Will easily top $2.00 if Preston sale goes ahead. Even if it doesn't, they'll have one of the cheapest lateritic nickel deposits in the world. Also producing heaps of low-cost gold ( @200/oz if memory serves me right ) . Also have bought all of BHP's African interests, so if cashed up will bring on another 200,000 oz of gold very quickly. If they're smart they'll buy out a few juniors at these giveaway prices. cheers, Nick

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:00
John Disney ( Please ..) ID#24135:

Bernie .. not so loud..

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 09:00
jims (Gollum) ID#252391:
I understand and agree with your thoughts and observations, but what I can't figure is how very many will succeed buying this kind of move. Everything will open about on its high, there won't be much follow throght beyond that. It'll be an up opening, a pull back, a rally to the highs then a fade to the close and a down week.

I have my bets or some of them placed - go off now and pay attention to the wife - the more pertictable female in my life.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:53
jims (Dow Globex got up 200 points) ID#252391:
but has pulled back - S&P got up to 1020 and is at 1000. Gold down 40 cents silver down 5 cents oil down 42 cents or was it 24 cents.

BONDS NOW DOWN ! 1/2 point!!!! after making new all time highs on globex

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:50
Gollum (@jims ) ID#35571:
No there aren't too many old ones, thats for sure.

Another thing about the day traders is that they don't particulary care whether it's a bull market or a bear market. They just look for very short term up or down. An awfully lot of these guys were playing Nintendo games not too long ago.

What's going to kill a lot of them is jumping in the market on an awesome expected up or down day like today, and then having the net go down so they can't reach their brokers in the afternoon. Maybe then they learn the beauty of limits and stops.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:48
jims (To MTN BEAR) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The one on line broker I was trying to access is Datek. A few minutes ago I was able to easily get on where my previous attempts had failed. I think they do house cleaning about 1-2 hours before the opening on Monday as I have had the problem before. I have noticed that it's wise to check to make sure the enterred orders are still in a few minutes before the opening as there have been times when they disappeared.

Actually, I'm pretty happy with Datek. Drives me crazy anymore to have to use phone systems or talk to an order taker. Gosh, how did we do it back there in the good old days

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:34
6pak (Russia & additional $20 billion (Gold & $'s)@ On deposit at another country's Central Bank.) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
7 SEPTEMBER 1998 ............RUSSIA

Sergei Dubinin on 7 September tendered his resignation, citing as one reason for his decision the State Duma's delay in passing a number of vitally important draft laws on banking, ITAR-TASS reported. Two days earlier, Central Bank Deputy Chairman Andrei Kozlov resigned. Kozlov was responsible the Central Bank's relations with other banks, as well as for the controversial scheme in which six top banks were forced to transfer all private individuals' bank deposits to Sberbank ( see RFE/RL Newsline, 4 September 1998 ) . Russkii telegraf reported on 4 September that acting Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin overruled the objections of Central Bank officials when he agreed to the basic principles for introducing a currency board. Under a currency board system, the role of the Central Bank would be diminished. JAC

Acting Prime Minister Chernomyrdin said in a 6 September national television address that Russia needs to double its gold and hard-currency reserves hopefully through the assistance of the global financial system. Acting Minister of the Economy Yakov Urinson told Vremya MN in an interview published the next day that Russia might have to borrow up to $20 billion, kept on deposit in the central bank of another country, in order to carry out the idea of establishing a currency board for Russia. Under a currency board system, new units of money cannot be issued unless they are backed 100 percent by reserves of another, more stable currency. In his speech to the Federation Council on 4 September, Chernomyrdin implied that his government will adopt a currency board system, although he never actually used the words currency board ( see RFE/RL Newsline, 4 September 1998 ) . JAC

Russkii telegraf reported on 4 September that an exchange rate of 30 rubles to the dollar would require a currency board with $12 billion in reserves and a money supply of 370 billion rubles. But according to Izvestiya the next day, the nation's reserves are currently negligible, and the newspaper called a possible agreement with the West on urgent currency assistance too good to be true. IMF Managing-Director Michel Camdessus said on 4 September that a currency board for Russia, though a good idea, is not appropriate under current conditions. JAC


ITAR-TASS reported on 7 September that regions are experiencing shortages of key goods, as citizens have begun hoarding non-perishable items. For example, in Nakhodka and Ufa, consumers are purchasing sugar, flour, and other foods in large quantities. In Vologda, a local gasoline station claimed that it has only enough gasoline to last two days. Grocery stores in Murmansk have run out of salt, cereals, cooking oil, and other staples. JAC

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:33
Mtn Bear (SE) (@jims) ID#347267:
Mind sharing the name of your on-line broker? Good to know which ones are accessible on busy days. Waterhouse worked fine for me 'bout 10 minutes ago. No problem either with Fidelity.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:29
ravenfire (has anyone posted these yet?) ID#333126:
Copyright © 1998 ravenfire/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Ruble continues slide. trading halted

UK calls special G7 meeting ( very interesting when the big boys admit something's wrong )

Klinton's lawyers want to delay Starr's report so they can pore over it

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:25
jims (Gollum) ID#252391:
I think somebody is going to get hurt with all this gyration, and I don't think it will be those that sell the SPY between 101 and 105 or the S&P between 1010 and 1050.

There aren't too many old day traders.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:18
jims (S&P UP past 1000) ID#252391:
This is the mother of all openings - I have to believe its a set up for a dump by day's end. My on line broker can not be reached - good enough reason to sit tight.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:17
Gollum (@EJ) ID#35571:
I don't know, but I think I might start looking for something to go short on a little after noon if conditions look right. Close out just before close. We'll be the New Half-Day Traders.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:15
6pak (Imagine @ Mexican private banker's may have made bad loans. And the taxpayer must pay ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 7, 1998

Mexican congress appoints Canadian to audit bank bailout fund

MEXICO CITY ( AP ) -- Mexico's congress on Monday appointed Canadian consultant Michael Mackey to audit Mexico's Bank Savings Protection Fund, which assumed $55 billion of bad debt during the 1995 banking crisis.

Congress has demanded an audit of Fobaproa, as the fund is known, amid accusations that the bank bailout was marred by mismanagement and corruption. President Ernesto Zedillo wants to consolidate Fobaproa liabilities into public debt.

Mackey will be paid $400 an hour, and his assistants will be paid about $90 and hour and up, Deputy Fauzi Hamdan Amad of the National Action Party told a news conference. He declined to predict the total cost.

Mackey said he hoped to finish the audit as soon as possible but declined to give a date. Most congressmen don't expect the audit to be completed before early 1999.

The audit team will look at several hundred of the largest non-performing loans, made by private banks but assumed by the federal government after the 1994 peso devaluation.

Critics have charged that many of the loans were made improperly, and that some businessmen over-valued collateral guarantees on the credits.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:14
Gollum (@jims ) ID#35571:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I guess the New Day Traders aren't so awfully new, there have always been day traders around, but a couple of things in the last year or two have made them a much more significant factor in the markets than ever before.

1 ) The internet has made it much more possible to do desk trading. One no longer has to call their broker to see what's up. One can even place trades on a moments notice from home or office.

2 ) The cost of a trade is very low, eight dollars or less regardless of size. Day traders can and do make hundreds and thousands on a price move of a fraction of a point.

Many of the price moves we see, up or dow 150 points or more in just a few minutes, are being generated by these schools of pirahna respond en mass to a news item or a recommendation from a day trader news letter. Many of these moves get ascribed to the PPT or the sell program.

On a day like today where it is virtually guaranteed the market should be up in the morning based on good overnight news and positive Globex indexes there will be a day trader feeding frenzy. The market may rise 150 or 200 points or more within an hour of opening ( or much more quickly than that ) . If the market then settle out and doesn't move much for the rest of the day, you'll see a big sell off in the late afternoon and shortly before close as the daytraders exit for the day.

On a day when the market can be seen to start down, they'll jump in on the short side and then you'll see action by the PPT in the late afternoon and shortly before close.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:08
ravenfire (more on Malaysia) ID#333126:
Copyright © 1998 ravenfire/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
tomorrow the Clob market in Singapore opens for the final week of trading Malaysian stocks ( Mahatdir has decreed that only the KLSE shall do lawful exchanges of Malaysian listed company stocks ) - should prove interesting, especially if there's fireworks in NY tonight

Mahatdir still believes in the free market! ( uhuh. indeedy. right. )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:04
ravenfire (aurator, paul gold, sharefin) ID#333126:
Copyright © 1998 ravenfire/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
aurator + paul gold - thanks for the info on Moccata ( they still sound like a coffee company to me though...hehe... much more power in reality, I guess )

sharefin - I'll take my chances on those futures - still keeping some small bit of dry powder ... haven't committed to those S&P or Dow puts ...yet. and missed out on 10-15% increase in Aussie gold miners for not following Nick@C's advice ( though there's those warrants I bought today... )

time will tell. my investments so far have been junk. may $50 oil and $500 gold be upon us before the new millenium :- )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 08:03
6pak () ID#335190:
September 8, 1998

Russia forex reserve rise needs intnl help-Dubinin

MOSCOW, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Russia can only increase its gold and foreign exchange reserves with international help, former central bank chairman Sergei Dubinin said on Tuesday.
At the present time, this is possible only with the assistance of the world community, Dubinin told reporters. Russia's Acting Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin and other officials have spoken recently of doubling the central bank's reserves as part of a new plan to support the rouble.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:58
Silverbaron (XAU Fibonacci Time Chart) ID#289357:

FWIW, there is an important peak coming on Sept 19th ( which incidentally is a Saturday ) on the Fibonacci time chart. This date roughly coincides with the crash dates given by several sources for September 17 and 18.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:51
jims (Lakshmi) ID#252391:
Poor Puetz is taking alot of heat but could easily get the last laugh. I don't know who he is either. He perdicted the end of the western world's and eastern world's financial system last November - of course selective markets, particularly US and Europe rallied beyond most's expectations. Now he'a got a bear call again. If the market fails after this opening he may end up very right. Today is pretty critical. Had the jump not been so well advertised and experienced by two day of Globex trading it woun't be so bad, but up 200 points then down - man that would be ugly!!!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:49
HighRise (Gold) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold ( CMX )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:47
HighRise (Gold) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
September 08, 1998
07:27AM New York Time

Timezone Equivalents
Change from New York close

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:36
lakshmi (Tuesday after Labor Day is usually an up Dow market) ID#26350:
Copyright © 1998 lakshmi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If I remember correctly, the Tuesday after Labor Day is usually an up market in the US, plus the remarks Abbey Cohen made on TV Sunday am, plus Greenspan's talk in Berkeley last week. If the Dow falls today, I would say it is an ominous sign. If it rises, a continued result of the US euphoria makers remarks. Who is Puetz? I see him quoted regarding market predictions ( sun eclipse followed by moon eclipse=negative sentiment, market crash; plus 38 days after an all-time high, Dow crashes ) . I still favor Templeton, Lynch over Cohen--why risk the rest of the year? There will be tax selling in small caps at least, bonds generate 8% total increase per year over historical averages. In the Fidelity bulletin for this quarter, Lynch said Buy bonds, not what he is saying on the news now. Of course, the Fed could lower the rates....Commodities are down so low already, my guess is the pessimism is about wrung out there. Still pessimism, but the light is beginning to glimmer a bit. When the junior gold mining stocks are down to less than the cash they are holding, down 90%, 95%, I must say I am so tempted to start buying. Plus the major gold mines are really at low prices too! December 31st would be the last day EuroCBanks can sell, right, at least not without the EU Fed's approval? The US Dow market is still too much on the optimistic end of the scale to look attractive....compared to commodities which have seen so much pessimistic selling over the last year and half, hasn't it been? Regards...Also, PS:Can we outside the country buy Malaysia at all now?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:36
sharefin (An excellent reference book. Worthy of a bookmark.) ID#284255:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:33
jims ( What do the New Day Traders do with a 175point rally on the Dow) ID#252391:
And who are the New Day Traders Are they the subject of recent CNBC stories.?

The market is going to go down its just, in my mind, from what level. I don't think the trend is as clear in the metals. An Ocotber retest of the lows, the making of the trough then I can see in conjunction with a marketr decline whether it be sever or not.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:28
jims (To JFH re Max Moseley's letter) ID#252391:
Do you happen to have the URL for the newsletter mentioned.

Looks like no bounce in the metals today - doesn't seem like the traders in the bits have gotten the message that shorts should be covered. - I wonder why. With all the dollar weakness you'd think some of the short gold would be being unwound - could it be the deflatiory trends are so strong - I think so

Buy the dips sell the rallies - yes.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:24
EJ (Which way the markets?) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You'd think it would be safe to assume that the US markets will rally today on the good news that interest rates might drop. On the other hand, the market may decide that the possibility of a rate drop is a confirmation of a fear that has not yet shown up in the market, that the US is headed into a recession. Even if the market goes up, it will do so in anticipation of a rate increase really soon, like this week. If it either doesn't see one or Greenspan doesn't jawbone some escalation of his intentions ( e.g., from maybe possible sometime to more liley sooner than later ) then the market will whipsaw right back down again.

This is not a patient or forgiving market.

Gollum, I wonder if anyone's gotten wise to the New Day Traders and are ready and waiting to take their money today.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:19
JTF (Morning Donald!) ID#254321:
Hope you had a nice labor day weekend.
Any thoughts about Germany/Brazil now that Russian is clearly not repaying foreign investors? I wonder which dominoe is to fall next. Probably South American -- Brazil, Mexico?
Germany must be getting shaky.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:12
JTF (Malaysia down 20% plus) ID#254321:
All: Looks like an up day in the markets, world-wide PPT acitve, with AG saying US rates might go down. Anyone know what's up with Malaysia? They were supposed to be stable. New scandal?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 07:06
JTF (Max Moseley's Aug newsletter.) ID#254321:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: You should read this if you haven't already. Nice summary of what's happening, claims he did alot of work on reviewing status of the world.

Would be nice if we could get hime to post about this - are you lurking, Max?

My assessment is that deflationary trends are dominating inflationary trends in the US for the following reasons.


1 ) WJC in trouble now even with his own party.

2 ) Recession looming in US -- markets picking this up.

3 ) World-wide deflation, commodity prices likely to drop more.

4 ) US up to its eyeballs in debt

5 ) Y2k pending.

6 ) Interest rates dropping.

All of the above will either pull the markets down, or destabilize them.

If they begin to drop.


1 ) US dollar under attack -- many reasons

2 ) AG likely to lower rates, but only after markets go down some more.

3 ) Unions showing more spunk, but still hit hard by cheap foreign labor.

The only way inflation could come to US shores before inflation would be if foreign investment is so high that WJC's woes cause massive foreign selling of US investments -- equity and treasuries. But that requires that foreign investors have a viable alternative. Not too likely given what is happening in Russia ( threatens Europe ) , Japan, and South America.

So -- it would seem that deflationary effects will dominate in the US. There is not even a whiff of inflation in the US right now.

But -- if we go into a recession for a year or so, and AG lowers rates to 'prime the pumps' that might very well trigger another inflationary round -- probably after the markets drop some more when everyone realizes tha WJC is personna non grata with his own party. Just wait till the K Starr report comes out.

What is my assessment on gold investing? Buy on the dips, sell on the rallies -- for a bit longer. Not much longer, either.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:54
jims (Two and one half hours to launch) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well, how will the markets confound us today and this week. It seems we are set for a test of 1000 on the S&P and maybe as high as 8000 on the Dow. Will the market actually open up here, or will the Globex gains vanish right before the opening.? If we open higher will the rally last more than 45 minutes. If there is a sell off after the opening will the market mount a second assualt. Can this US stock market carry forward beyond a one day jump?.

Now it seems in late August the better minds on this board ( mine not included ) were calling for a rally in the period just after Labor Day then a decline. Well here it is. We have Peutz calling for the mother of all crashes - funny when the rally comes it is not so tempting to sell. Probably has to do with the fact that so many Ive sold in the past should not have been.

And what about the metals South Africans still holding on to good gains. Above 1000 again on the ^JGAI. I say the metals don't go up much today but don't fall much either. The stock market - well I bet it opens strong, fades, tries again, and just because I won't be short it end up giving away 2/3rds its gain, then treades irregularly lower for the rest of the week.

RE THE EURO - found this chart which shows the dollar vs the euro - notice the trend - dollar falling.

Good luck day traders.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:49
Speed (Nikkei is up on govt buying...) ID#29048:
Tokyo Nikkei rises over three pct in morning trade

TOKYO, Sept 8 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo's benchmark Nikkei average jumped by more than three percent in morning trade on Tuesday amid active buying by government-related pension funds in the futures market, traders said.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:41
Fred(@Vienna) (Corrigendum) ID#185448:
1. I said: In a similar case, a guy tried to enter EU-borders secretly with a truckload of bullion by the custom-clerk

I should have said: In a similar case, a guy tried to enter EU-borders secretly with a truckload of bullion AND WAS UNCOVERED by the custom-clerk.

Silly me, spoke Zarathustra.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:37
Donald (Japanese Parliment will ignore the wishes of Robert Rubin) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:35
Fred(@Vienna) () ID#185448:
Copyright © 1998 Fred(@Vienna)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
aurator/retired soldier
re Gold-import to germany

tried to check out that problem - still working on it, definite answer latest end of this week also directly to the brother-in-arms. Sir. yes.

In a similar case, a guy tried to enter EU-borders secretly with a truckload of bullion by the custom-clerk. The stuff was not confiscated, the guy was charged with a rather small fee for non-declaration. What I know is - you can enter EU with gold - but you should declare, if you want to leave EU again with it. If you wanna leave without it - well thats what I have to check out - as the duty to pay is called Import-VAT - now as bullion&coins are VAT-free in EU what will they ask for? Also there seems not to be any need for protective measures, so in the best of all cases there is no custom-fee or however you call it ( dont wanna look it up in the dachshundordinäry ) , no VAT, no nothing, simply free-trade, love, peace and happiness at the customs. As a matter of fact, I have not yet declared any coin, when I reentered EU, I put them into my wallet or cigarette-packs. Them anti smokers at the airport never look in your pack or your wallet and if you are obliged to cough three times they find it enivrez.
Putting them into the handluggage gives even a possibly unhonest action a more honest look. I would avoid to put them into plastic and swallow them, as the last one who tried this with 80 pcs drowned in the bathtube, I think.

To be continued seriously.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:29
Donald (List of Japanese banks and their derivative exposure) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:26
Donald (Japanese leader says banks should be nationalized before they collapse.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:24
Gollum (Here come the day traders again) ID#43349:
Globex indices all up amid much expectation for a DOW rally. This should bring out the morning day traders. Depending upon how the rest of the day goes we may then see a lates afternoon sell off.

Inasmuch as there was a tremendous runup in the XAU last week and ,etal prices have quieted in the overnight market we may see something of a profit taking in the gold sector as traders seek opportunities in the expected to rise equity markets.

All in all something of an interesting day.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:20
Donald (Russia faces a complete collapse of its banking system.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:15
lefty kiwi (Aurator ( re Karori hills )) ID#32176:
Copyright © 1998 lefty kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I used to play there when a youngster 1950's , lived right beside Karori Park .... learnt to love cricket there ..... bowling leftarm round the wicket . A great place to be a kid . I remeber watching the Springboks at Athletic Park in 1956 .
But to Gold .....maybe we are going back to revisit the low again ...and maybe we will get a very very good bounce on the S&P500 which might even give me enough courage to short it . My friend in the Edinburgh of the South is a Wilder devotee ( Wilder actually spent a holiday with him in Queenstown ) is adamant we are going to see a largwe bounce .

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:14
Donald (Dollar higher on expected Dow rally today) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 06:11
sharefin (Mozel) ID#284255:
Fortunately I live in little old Aussieland.

Life is truly different here.

No doubts they can still extract all, from one here.
But first they have to think of that.

I read Y2k for the sake of being aware.
As well as being an occultist in the subject.
( got to have something to do. )

And I shall be prepared very well.

As an aside;
Why read about Law? If they want your stuff, they shall have it.

Seems like both of us are off track.
Perhaps we should just buy gold and not worry.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:58
aurator () ID#250121:
there's a congregation of windmills ( a clogging of windmills? A tilting of windmills? ) on the hills in Karori in Wellington. The sound they make is incessant ( san cesse, eh Fred? ) and quite sonorously eldritch. Position it several chain from the farm house.


Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:57
sharefin (Aurator) ID#284255:

This testimony released in June is soon to be followed up with their latest report due mid Sept.

Whether it is more revealing is yet to be revealed.

Latest concerns by the GAO are not good.

These files are PDF's and I will be extracting the info to place on my website.

If you can't wait - have a look.
T'is not good news.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:53
mozel (@sharefin Why read about Y2K ? If they want your stuff, they shall have it.) ID#153110:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:49
sharefin (Aurator) ID#284255:
T'is good to be confident.
And I hope such is true.
( I might have to come home after all. )

But before I do I want one of these on my farm!!!

Blowin in the breeze.

Cage Rattler
T'is nice to be gifted by our Aurator@Popular_Delusions
T'is almost an exalted club.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:46
aurator () ID#250121:
We are in accord. Gold is political inasfar as it transcends mundane poltics; inasfar as it represents the clarion call of freedom; inasfar as it predates the european colonisation of your country and mine; and inasfar as it symbolises value between strangers.

Gold was not selected by governments to be the monetary standard. Gold has developed for many centuries on the free market as the best money; as the commodity providing the most stable, honest and desirable monetary medium.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:43
PrivateInvestor (g.d.) ID#210420:

thank you

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:39
aurator (Extrapops) ID#250121:
Cage Rattler
My pleasure!

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:38
sharefin (Mozel) ID#284255:
What point to read the constitution?

If they want you it is their choice not yours.

No matter how well versed you are
If they want you away
It shall be done.

They carry the power to override
Even the voice of knowledge.

This is what they wanted
This is what they have created.

And who am I to argue.

I mate of mine just ditched out of the Dec99 $400 calls.
He had an even split between them and SP puts.

And found that the SP puts were far more volatile.$$$$

His thoughts are to build up capital on the puts
Then roll into the Gold calls
Before rolling into Physical.

If he's fleet of foot and the ball rolls his way.
I'll be sharing his good plays
With a bottle of two.

His plan of focus began with an article I showed him on Y2k.
And some excellent articles on gold.

I admire his plan and have good confidence in his abilities.
Dow down= profits
Gold up= profits
Physical= security.

I would hazzard a guess that he will be set up secure for life.
And I'll be living next door on our Y2k farm.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:37
mozel (@aurator There's no escaping the fact gold is a political metal. gold &) ID#153110:
silver coin. In black and white in the Constitution. It's not a toy, not a doorstop, not a decoration. Not part of the aimless, endless, pagan variations of Orietnal despotism. It is bone in the body of Freedom under Law. And for Law, there must be a rule of decision. Rules of evidence, procedure, due process. And a cornerstone of belief. I had no intent to spar with my last post. Merely, intended to make an observation on style. If it was a mistaken observation, I stand corrected.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:33
aurator () ID#250121:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
a week or two ago I was talking to a programmer, now spending allhis time with Y2K for Utilities in Aotearoa. He believes that NZ will be ready in plenty of time with electricity. But there could be a problem with natural gas supply being broken, all the pilot lights going out, then the gas coming on before the pilot lights have been reset.

So, we probably got 'tricity down here ( at the far end of the earth, eh Putzy? ) but there may only be a crater where once a house was cooking with gas.

you fellas about? What's your pick on godzone & Y2K?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:29
Cage Rattler (@aurator) ID#33184:
Just received Extraordinary Popular Delusions. Looking forward to reading it. Many thanks once again.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:23
sharefin (What a gas?) ID#284255:
This article is a must read for those that don't think they are at risk. Y2k is a personal problem. It is a gamble to think that it will not hit home. A gamble that has fatal implications.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:20
Greenstone Gold (ravenfire (the Philippines considers following Malaysia's lead)) ID#427265:

Could this be the start of the end of GLOBALISATION......... ?

Perhaps in 5 to 10 years time, only electronic gold will ZIP around the world, it most certainly will not be US$'s !

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:17
Paul Gold (Ravenfire @04:56 re Mocatta) ID#21484:
Look at http:///london.fix.article.html for some info on Mocatta.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:16
mozel (@Grizz I don't agree with your statements in your last post. Read the Constitution.) ID#153110:
Read the Law. Let your conscience be your guide. And you, Grizz, should get a lawyer because a fool like you is going to need one.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:15
aurator (Mocatta ain't no diet capuccino) ID#250121:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Here is an overview of Mocatta from archives d'aurator the URL has expired, it was dated 10/01/97 ( merkin date format )

:: This press release is transmitted on behalf of Scotiabank

Toronto, October 1 - Scotiabank announced today that it has
signed an agreement to acquire Mocatta Bullion & Base Metals, a
division of Standard Chartered Bank of the UK. The deal, subject to
regulatory approval, will establish Scotiabank as one of the world's
leading metals trading and bullion banks by global coverage. The
purchase price will not be material to Scotiabank.

''Scotiabank is currently the leading bullion bank in Canada,''
said Peter Godsoe, Scotiabank Chairman and CEO. ''When we studied
the situation we determined that this was an area where we could
build on our existing strengths and establish ourselves as world
leaders. Mocatta presented itself as a perfect match which would
enable Scotiabank - under the marketing banner of Scotia Capital
Markets - to become a full-service metals dealer.''

''Mocatta's expertise and world standing will enhance our
overall capabilities and will translate into increased strengths for
several areas of our firm,'' said Scotia Capital Markets Chairman
and CEO Gord Cheesbrough.

''For example, Scotia Capital Markets is strong in mining equity
research, and corporate and investment banking for the mining
sector. The addition of Mocatta's global trading operations will
enable us to offer clients integrated solutions across a complete
range of base and precious metals services.''

vrange of base and precious metals services.''

Established in 1671, Mocatta is the oldest and one of the
world's largest metals trading businesses. Integrating this business
within Scotia Capital Markets will create numerous synergies.
Mocatta's strong international industrial consumer base will
complement Scotia Capital Markets' solid bullion relationships with
mining companies. Combining Scotia Capital Markets' presence in the
North American base metals market with Mocatta's worldwide base
metals operations will establish this new entity as a global
full-service metals dealer.

Subject to regulatory approval, Scotiabank - through Scotia
Capital Markets - will retain Mocatta's prestigious standing as only
one of five London Gold Fixing Members, one of three Silver Fixing
Members, and as one of 15 Ring Dealing Members of the London Metals

The transaction will involve a number of exchange memberships
including: London International Financial Futures Exchange Limited
( LIFFE ) , The International Petroleum Exchange, The Tokyo Commodity
Exchange ( TOCOM ) , Commodity Exchange Inc. ( COMEX ) a division of the
New York Mercantile Exchange and ownership of Iron Mountain, one of
six recognised delivery warehouses for COMEX.

''The integration of Mocatta with our existing metals operations
will strategically position us to take advantage of opportunities in
expanding markets such as commodities trading in the Middle and Far
East, mining sector project finance and other structured
transactions,'' said Larry Scott, Head of Scotia Capital Markets
Europe and Global Head of Precious and Base Metals.


I wonder what he's thinking of opportunities in expanding markets such as commodities trading in the Middle and Far East now?

This link might still be live

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 05:00
aurator (Now, let's count the rulers who have virtue..........I believe I'll have ANOTHER drink (must believe) ID#250121:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
in something.....

The Way is to win the people, then win the country. If you lose the people, you lose the country. Therefore the ruler must be concerned about his own virtue first. If he has virtue, he will have the people. If he has the people, he will have the land. If he has the land, he will have wealth. If he has wealth, he will be able to function.

Neither virtue nor benediction began 2,000 years ago, not even 10,000 years ago. Talk of virtue, vice, benediction and malediction originate at our wit's beginning, the first utterance that carried a symbolic meaning; perhaps one hundred millenia ago was likely a F* you or mayhaps Greetings, brother. Gold, however, was formed in the inpenetrably distant past at the origin of this condensate we call a planet 4,000 million years ago, or so. ( at 15:03 hrs today ) Let us talk of condensate, let us talk of alchemy, let us talk of gold..

Let us unwaste our time with sparring over matters of belief. I greet you as a brother. Namasté. Shalom. ( Bring your own herbs when you visit ) ;-^ )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:56
ravenfire (JIN: what's a MOCCATTA?) ID#333126:
I know the big blue chips on the KLSE well, but i've not heard of no Moccattas before. what kind of beast are they?

Mahatdir can't be happy over the stock price collapse - I'm praying the day that they start arresting honest traders for manipulating stock prices downward doesn't happen.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:53
ravenfire (aye, sharefin) ID#333126:
zigackly what i said in my 02:33 regarding the HK govt

and i haveta at least partially agree with ya on Y2k - i've been watching those dec 99 gold calls ... dunno if it's getting too late to buy them... maybe on next spike down in POG? ( gotta stop trying to call these bottoms )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:49
JIN (Briefly from me....malaysia stocks and gold market!) ID#206358:
Copyright © 1998 JIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
These weeks saw tremendous big show in the stage,both currencies exchange,stocks ,metals too!
Klse became 'CASINO...up 20% in few day constantly and shot down liked the rock this evening......bloody killing field!
Currencies exchange became extremely complicated,no directions and confusing...?!! can i say!Out of stocks.Evryone try to hold,especially the gold dealers.And the refinery became hottest issue in the town.We guys holding the RM but no place to recovered the stocks.oh.....even the few big coms,such as MOCCATTA, are stop trading until further noticed.
I don't know what is going around the regions....bye then ,stay cool atleast!I'll keep on buying the metal...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:45
sharefin (T-Bone) ID#284255:
You haven't heard a 1/100 of what you will hear on Y2k over the coming year.
It will be in-your-face more and more.

Rather than not wanting to hear about it I would suggest you do some research and see what your Gov't is so concerned about.

Daily I am confronted by people with an attitude of not wanting to talk about it.
These people are so convinced about a nil effect.
And yet in every case they have read zilch on the subject.
Yet they are so opinionated about their knowledge of how everything will be alright.

To not be prepared is to be ignorant.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:37
Jack (Russia) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Some years ago I had a small booklet ( 100 pages ) that covered the thoughts of Dr. Franz Pick, Dr. Pick was one of the worlds foremost gold experts.

I remember that Dr. Pick believed that Russia had 11,000 tonnes of gold in the late 70's.

The Russians were considered astute gold traders and stories that most of that gold flowed out of Russia through the BIS seems like fantasy.

I can't believe that the grain deals with the US cost her such a loss in gold reserves

During that time she supplied huge amounts of natural gas to Europe, while the pipeline was not cheap, the gas flowed. Production within the then Soviet Union with abundant natural resources allowed for the manufacture of both equiptment and military goods and should not have been a drain on gold reserves, while their economy was not efficient it produced from within, using Russian resources and labor. Russia at the time was also a major oil producer, so she had no need real need for foreign oil.

Something just doesn't jive, unless Dr. Pick's estimate was incorrect and I can't believe that Party Officials managed to pocket this gold.

While the Afgan War was a drain, she still produced whatever was expended from within and trade with Cuba was probably more in the nature of barter.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:34
sharefin (No data recorded?) ID#284255:
On the Swiss crash black box.

The last 6 minutes or recording is blank.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:22
sharefin (Ravenfire) ID#284255:
A short order.

The Financial Secretary said the Government wanted to dispose of the positions it had built up in the securities market as soon as possible.

It also said it would establish an independent body to manage the estimated $100 billion portfolio it has amassed since August 14.

Smells like a bear.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:15
Ersel (A closed mind, gathers no moss.......) ID#230376:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 04:09
T-Bone (Y2K) ID#36829:
Enough already about Y2K, there will only be minor disruptions caused by this problem. Even if I am wrong, which many of you might say I am ( I don't want to hear it ) as I don't need to hear solutions from people carrying guns.

I am happy to talk about gold. By the way Nick@C do you still hold RSG, did you notice they announced a record profit. I believe Preston will be meeting on the 14th re the Bulong purchase. If that gets the nod RSG will add 200 million to their cofers.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:52
Grizz (Cloud seeders) ID#424394:
Use Silver Chloride particles to provide nuclei for fog to condense around to make rain that grows food to provide nutrition for us. They try to turn dry thunderstorms into productive rain showers.

Is there a parallel for grains of Gold.
Perhaps I was mistaken in thinking that enough Kitcoites could act together as seeds to promote productive rainfall rather than just rumbles in the distance.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:38
Dave (@ nite) ID#261155:
good morning.....what difference does it make... :- ) lol see ya......

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:34
Dave (@Grizz, regulate congressional acts becoming the constituion) ID#261155:
you brilliant person............

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:29
Grizz (Mozel - I am tired of endless repetition of sermons to the choir) ID#424394:
Copyright © 1998 Grizz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Allright already - we got the damn message!
Do you have any particular ACTIONS to recommend that we can accomplish?
Since you are advocating overthrow of the government - perhaps take those particular recommmendations to another forum so that Bart does not get closed down or swamped by government computers doing endless downloads of full-day and long-view posts this week.
Any ideas besides the usual lip service about fiat and gold-backed money.
Is there a way to put some action where our rhetoric is?
We often sound like a bunch of park bench spectators complaining about the weather. Does anybody know a cloud-seeding company?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:27
Gianni Dioro (Hong Kong, world markets, margin) ID#384350:
ravenfire, I sometimes wonder if the Govt was propping up prices until some key insiders could unload some big positions.

Another comment by Harry Schultz which has also been brought forth at Kitco in the past week or so, Word reaches us from insider mole on Sunday Aug 30 that margin calls & derivative failures have caused much of the damage to both stocks, commodities & the US$ in past week. These are 2 aspects Never, Never reported.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:18
Dave (@bad boy.......bad bad boy dave.....) ID#261155:
oopps lol...... :- )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:12
Dave (@ the F*king) ID#261155:
State of dave don' have no sponsers and he don support no bills, he jus don give a f*k anymore.....he ain' into savin anyone....they can save themselves or go to hell by themselves......ok..... :- )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:08
mozel (@Dave) ID#153110:
How many Congressional sponsors does your Bill have ?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:04
ravenfire (the Philippines considers following Malaysia's lead) ID#333126:

bullish for gold, yes?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:02
Dave (@nytol) ID#261155:

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 03:00
Dave (@alloidial land grants ) ID#261155:
WERE MADE Mozel........:- )

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:58
Gianni Dioro (Clarification) ID#384350:
As of late August, Harry was expecting the market to continue to slide to possibly 7700 before a sharp counter rally to 8625-9040 from where it would drop to a major low.

What I meant in the previous post was that the market slid a bit further than Harry expected before starting to rally, and thus his 8625 target may be too high, IMO.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:44
Gianni Dioro (Private I - Harry Schultz Letter) ID#384350:
Yeah, those life-time subscriptions are valid only for his life-time and he's like 75 or something. The newsletter would go on by his co-workers. His comments on gold this month seemed to be a bit riding the fence, although he always recommends having a core position in precious metals.

The latest Harry Schultz Letter ( +32 16 533684 ) , dated Aug 31 talks about Russia. Says they should have linked the Rouble to Gold, it still could be done, though they have lost most of their gold.

He says that in every market there is too much optimism at tops and too much pessimism at bottoms. Says when gold was at $700 people said it was going to $1000, $1200, or even $2000. Now people are saying $200, Hah. Russia says it would lend gold, not sell it.

Cites facts: In 1997 gross official govt purchases of gold were at its highest levels since early 1980's. Only 5 nations have made significant gold sales in the past decade. France, Germany, Italy are committed to not selling. Says only 1% of all official gold holdings were sold last year. The US continues to hold 57% of its reserve assets in gold. Gold is only 2nd to the $US in reserves of world CB's.

He says we don't hear these facts because the media is controlled by liberals, closet-socialists ( eg, Ted Turner ) & mega-bankers. Bankers don't like gold because it's money they can't create from thin air as they now do, & can't control. Why give away control? It's the same reason Japan's rulers don't want to change their system. Why give away control? It's all too simple when you see the reality.

He says, And gold Will return to currency backing & its price Will rise, probably as a result of a meltdown in the present fiat monetary system, currently under heavy attack.

As to the stock market, he says it used to be a bull market till proven otherwise, now it's a Bear market unless proven otherwise. His in-house leading indicator, Real Market Action ( RMA ) broke down with a double top formation. The timing of his letter seemed to contradict his predictions as the market was tanking right around his deadline. He was expecting the market to rally before selling off to a major low, however the market sold off a bit further than he expected, so his numbers are suspect. I suppose that is what we are seeing now. Says expect investor optimism to return on the rally. 1st rally in a bear mkt is a bull trap. Sees Dow 7348 as key support.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:37
Dave (@that is very interseting Mozel.......but what I think) ID#261155:
is more that a bill could be presented and passed to Congress stipulating that all current legislation, proposed legislation
withstand a full Constitutional test/review by the Supreme Court, BEFORE it can become the law of the land....and that all laws currently enacted and/or enforced, be tested/reviewed by the Court..... in this manner we might have the rule of law under the Constitution, instead of Rule of/by government entities.....PRESUMING to be passing laws and acting in accordance with the Constitution....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:33
ravenfire (Gianni, mozel - on HK govt. stock manipulation) ID#333126:
Copyright © 1998 ravenfire/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
they say they're gonna liquidate the govt. held securities bought during the ... ahem ... period where they held off the speculators. this is, of course, to be conducted entirely by an independent body to manage the govt. held securites and to ... ahem ... dispose of them as quickly as possible.

it just remains to be seen whether the market will continue recovering upon sales of the govt. stocks...

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:11
mozel (Unverified, But Startling Information for Tax Slaves in the US) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dated March, 5 1998
received Aug, 5 1998
Louis Traffer, Attorney for the CITY OF HARRISBURG
in Case No. 5399-S-97, has demanded that Stephen Ames Sr. present proof
and strict evidence of the following:
I, That Stephen Ames Sr. does not have allegiance to the Royal Family in England.
2: That Stephen Ames Sr. does not have to pay the IRS, who collects tribute for the Royal Family in England.
3. That the Corporation known as The CITY OF HARRISBURG, a
franchise of Great Britain, cannot collect tribute because it would be
in violation of 31 U.S.C. sec. 3124.

Louis Traffer, also wants IRS Document 6209, U.S-U.K. treaties, IRS law enforcement manual, placed into evidence, to prove that Stephen Ames Sr. is a subject and owes allegiance to Great Britain and the documents from my court cases, when they took our children, for reading the Bible without training to be placed into evidence to show that Stephen Ames Sr. is liable for the UNITED STATES Inc., debt to Great Britain. Louis Traffier, also wrote in one of his court documents, besides the above demands is, that an application for a Business License allows the CITY OF HARRISBURG to open an account in Stephen Ames Sr's. name. Is this not incredible! This case totally exposes that the revolutionary war was a fraud, and that Great Britain owns the United States Inc., and that the purported government assumes that we are subjects of the Royal Family, or rather The Crown. Now for the kicker, after Louis Traffer demanded the above, he is now attempting to move the case out of court and into a special tribunal. This tribunal does not have a judge or jury. It is made up of a panel of Esquires, who are members of the Bar. The purpose of this move is an attempt to prove that Stephen Ames Sr., is subject to the Royal family, so it is going to have to be done in a Star Chamber behind closed doors, out of the public view. All taxpayers, as defined by 26 U.S.C. and, being under the Constitution of the United States, have a Individual Master File which is in code. In using Document 6029, which is over 400 pages, there is a blocking series, which shows the taxpayer the type of tax that is being
paid. Most taxpayers fall under a 300-399 blocking series, which 6029
states is reserved but, by going to the BMF 300-399, which is the
Business Master File in 6209, it shows only businesses are liable while
working for the government. Prior to 1991, this was U.S./U.K. Tax Claims,
meaning taxpayers are considered a business and involved in commerce and
are held liable for taxes via a treaty between the U.S. and the U.K.,
payable to the U.K. The Form that is supposed to be used for this
is form 8288, FIRTPA-Foreign Investment Real Property Tax Account. The
8288 form is in the Law Enforcement Manual of the IRS, at chapter 3.
The OMB's ( Office of Management and Budget ) , in the Department of
Treasury, List of Active Information Collections, Approved Under
Paperwork Reduction Act is where Form 8288 is found. It is under OMB
number 1545.0902, which says, U.S. withholding tax-return for
dispositions by foreign persons, of U.S. Form #8288, #8288a. The
codes have since been changed to read as follows; IMF 300-309, Barred
Assessment, CP 55 generated valid for MFT-30, which is the code for the
1040 Form. IMF 310-399 reads the same as IMF 300-309. BMF 390-399 reads,
U.S.-U.K. Tax Treaty Claims. The fact is that the government has made it,
much more clear that a 1040 Form is a payment of a tax to the U.K..

Stephen Ames Sr. is not a party to the contract ( Constitution of the
United States Article Six and Treaty of 1783 & 1794 ) nor has Allegiance to Great Britain ( Royal family ) and, therefore, can not make payments to, or file anything with the IRS, COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA, etc..

You can help us and yourself, by keeping this case in court by phoning,
faxing and writing to Louis Traffer and Governor Tom Ridge. We will take
care of the rest.

Governor Tom Ridge 225 Capitol, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
17120 Phone 717-787-2500 or 717-787-1192 Fax 717-787-4590 or
717-787-8614. Louis Traffer, 10 North Market Street, Harrisburg, PA 17101
Phone 717-255-6523
To obtain copies of the court documents in the case up
to this point, write, phone or fax to: Stephen Ames Jr. c/o P.O. Box
5373, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania [17110] Phone/Fax

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:10
sharefin (Y2K and energy problems) ID#284255:>

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 02:09
Bernie (John Disney/Scarface) ID#263100:
John....where are you getting your information? Was Scarface a relative?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:51
PrivateInvestor (G.D.) ID#225283:

WHat is good old Harry S. saying in his news letter these days...haven't subscribed for a couple years now...I should have bought a lifetime subscription but I figured he would die off if I did and no telling what would happen the the newsletter...always liked the ex-pat section...What is he saying about the market in general, and gold specifically?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:43
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:
What will be the harm to their scrip ? They have the same number of slaves as before, don't they ?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:42
John Disney (Scarface wasnt such a bad guy ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
.. But that Elliott NESS !!
To all
Living under Mafia rule .. had some advantages. Little
Italy was always the safest place by far in New York.
Cosa Nostra had considerably more honour than the USG
and if in power would have run a lower cost safer
operation with much more individual freedom for all.
There would have been no social engineering.
The Kennedys saw the Mafia as competition and Bobby
went after organized crime in a big way. DIS-organized
crime was left alone since most of it comprised the
constituency of the Democrat Party.
Italy ran pretty well under indirect Mafia leadership.
But Now they have been corrupted and have gone back to

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:42
PrivateInvestor (Uncle loves Caves) ID#225283:
Copyright © 1998 PrivateInvestor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I recall the U.S. Govt. agency that ran top secret clearance background investigations for me was located under ground in a cave somewhere in Penn. ( can't legally say were ) ...

I beleave they were recently spun off from Uncle and are a private employee owned and operated corporation with the exclusive contract to provide investigative sevices ( data collection ) for Uncle...

the USG then owns all the information.

Company name is U.S.I.S. there are several such literally underground offices that I am aware of..... and probably dozens that very few people know of ....

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:28
Gianni Dioro (Mozel) ID#384350:
Right, the whole thing is Mad! First the Govt supports the share price. Soon, they are going to have to support the business they just bought into and now the HK govt is the largest single shareholder ( not including secret syndicates ) . Conflict of interest? This isn't going to be a good thing for their currency.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:19
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:
Hong Kong will create more money by issue of debt and load it on the people. That's all. Just like in the USA.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:12
John Disney (Siver play down under ..) ID#24135:
for Nick ..
Assume MIM warrents you collect are the one expiring
March ( ) next year that convert at a dollar I have
an order in for those this morning down under.. They
parallel the asa jan calls striking 20. ( bit more out
of the money .. bit more time ) .
This is by the way the ONLY silver
play I would ever consider other than
calls on the metal.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:07
mozel (@They Don't Need Your Gold) ID#153102:
They will seize it if they get the chance, but it's no big deal. They have your land and your car. All they want and need is your labor. They have over half of your work life now.

In Y2K they may come foraging for your food and fuel, but it's a lot more efficient to seize those things before they go into distribution.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:04
John Disney (Morning coffee .. Berg river valley) ID#24135:
to all ..
How come nobody ever calls ME an anarchist .. since
that is exactly what I am. I wouldn't be insulted. Why..
I'd be downright pleased.
My allegience to any nation would only extend to a
somewhat muted Viva for their rugby or cricket team.
And I can even shift positions on that one pretty
As for references to good Government social
programs .. I can only say horsepucky.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 01:01
Gianni Dioro (ravenfire, Govt Manipulation) ID#384350:
What will happen in Hong Kong, if/when HSBC, which is now 9% owned by HK Govt, needs Billions of Dollars of infusions to keep afloat due to property loan losses?

It's going to be a nightmare. The HK currency must be on thin ice.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:43
Gianni Dioro (missinglink ) ID#384350:
That line Hoarder in Prison was a subheadline talking about what the punishment would be for the nonconformers.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:41
Gianni Dioro (missinglink - Hoarders in Prison? The next time they will just be shot.) ID#384350:
I'm not aware of any. I think the Govt just confiscated people's gold and issued FRN's in exchange.

I got the article from a beat-up old book, Panics & Crashes...and how you can make money out of them by Harry Schultz that I found in a used bookstore today. The book has reprints of a few NY Times front-pages, including the day after the 1929 crash. There was a lot of talk in that article like the fundamentals are sound, strong rallying at the close, the liquidation process is over.

BTW, Harry Schultz has a new book out on the Year 2K and how to prepare for it. It's $50, but it goes to $25 and $0 depending on whether you take out a subscription to his newsletter.

I was a little disappointed at his latest newsletter because his Y2K section had been excellent lately. This month he just touted his book and told everyone to get on the ball because it's more serious than many of us think.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:34
sharefin (Who is going to be here come Y2k) ID#284255:

Resplice the url to view the US East Coast at night.

Lots of people consuming as fast as they can.

And it'll all go dark in a year.
Will there be food?
A civilized society?
Martial law?

Who are you going to call?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:33
SDRer (Goodnight thoughts-I'm a-wondering…) ID#286249:

In 1997 the Japanese could purchase an ounce of gold for 40K ¥ ( +/- )
And the ¥ was 116 +/_

And in 1998, the Japanese could purchase an ounce of gold for 40K ¥ ( =/- )
And the ¥ was 134 +/-

Plausible?..the Japanese are, AT PRESENT, dumping Treasuries
at the very private Fed window
And buying gold from? Under the 90s version of a Roosa Bonds agreement…

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:27
TheMissingLink (Gianni Dioro) ID#373403:
Was anyone ever jailed under this new law?

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:20
Gianni Dioro (Roosevelt Orders 4-Day Bank Holiday, Puts Embargo on Gold, Calls Congress) ID#384350:
President Takes Steps Under Sweeping Law of War Time.
The Proclamation Provides for Withdrawals From Banks Against New Deposits
Day of Conference With the Cabinet and Financial Men Precedes the Decree

WASHINGTON, March 5.--To prevent the export, hoarding or earmarking of gold or silver, coin or bullion or currency, President Roosevelt issued a proclamation at 11 o'clock tonight, in which he ordered a bank holiday from tomorrow through Thursday, March 9. Earlier in the day he had summoned a special session of Congress to meet on Thursday.

This sweeping action was taken after a day of conferences, among officials and bankers, the President taking recourse to war powers granted under the trading-with-enemy act.

As a result of the proclamation all banking activities will be suspended during the holiday except as permitted by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury, thus taking this country technically off the gold standard until the four-day period expires.

In order that there may not be a complete suspension of all banking and exchange operations, the proclamation authorizes the issuance of Clearing House certificates, which may be used as currency until the banks return to a more normal functioning.

...Points of the Proclamtion...

The main points in the proclamation are:

1. A national banking holiday from March 6 to March 9 inclusive.

2. An embargo on the withdrawal of gold and silver for export or domestic use during that period, except with permission of the Secretary of the Treasury.

3. The issuance of Clearing House certificates or other evidence of claims against the assets of banking institutions to permit business to carry on.

4. Authoriztion to banking institutions under regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury to receive new deposits and make them subject to withdrawal on demand without any restrictions or limitations.

Friends of the President said he had a definite three-point program for the solution of the banking problem and that tonight's action included two of them. The first, they said, was a protection of the currency against unreasonable withdrawal. The second was to furnish a temporary currency. The third is permanent reorganization of the whole banking system, which, they predicted would be proposed to the special session of Congress meeting here Thursday.

...Officials Act Quickly...

The Federal Reserve Board and Secretary Woodin, with the advice of former Secretary Ogden L. Mills acted immediately after the issuance of the proclamation to make it effective.

The proclamation was issued at 11 o'clock, bringing to an end a series of conferences held by Treasury officials and the new Cabinet throughout the day.

The proclamation affects all Federal Reserve Banks and national banks, trust companies, savings banks, building and loan associations, credit unions or other institutions engaged in any form of banking business.

The proclamation provides for a fine of $10,000 or imprisonment of not more than ten years or both for any violation of its provisions by gold hoarding or otherwise.

The President acted under Section 5 ( b ) and section 16 of the trading with the enemy act to place these extraordinary restrictions on the nation's banking structure. The courts have interpreted the act as giving the President authority to bring about a complete suspension of gold and silver payments as well as an embargo on their export.

Section 5 ( b ) of the trading-with-.........

From the Monday, March 6, 1933, frontpage of the NY Times.

Date: Tue Sep 08 1998 00:09
ravenfire (Gianni Dioro (re: Malaysian reserve requirements)) ID#333126:
down to 6% now, will be 4% on Sep 16th.

if you thought 6% was bad enough...

add to that the govt. buying blue chips too using public funds ( sorta like HK but not so widely media-known ) ...

anyone wanna take bets on whether Dr. Mahatdir still has a job as PM in a few months time?

Return to Home Page

Site design & maintenance by Nick Laird
All pages on this website are ©1998-2018 ShareLynx Gold - All Rights Reserved