Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:23
sharefin (Trains and planes) ID#284255:
...stuff on the arlington - alexandria switchyard and rail in general.

It was apparent then, that rail roads would not roll. Cory would you care to update this piece?
The only updates I've seen are Paul Makinen's information on how RAILINC
has outsourced the Y2K remediation to GEISCO, the General Electric
Information Services Company headquartered in Rockville Maryland.

A good choice... GEISCO's forte is telecommunications.

He also found reports that stated that RAILINC is moving both the
operations for the freight car tracking system and the development away
from Washington DC. It is not wise to move both groups when there is a
crisis project in the works... but management marches to its own

Makinen found help wanted ads from GEISCO seeking communcations
programmers to work on a rail system.

Unless you're asking if they're bulldozing the shopping center to put
the railyard back in... no, they haven't done that yet.

What I don't understand is... as clueless as I am, it seems pretty
obvious that there's a disinformation campaign going on.

If rail is OK, and Senator Bennett's staff is concerned and is asking
questions, why doesn't RAILINC simply prove to the Senator that there
isn't a problem.

An important note... as far as I know, the switches in the warehouse
story came from Senator Bennett's people and *not* c.s.y2k.

I also don't understand how railroad bob ( his userid is too cryptic to
recall. ) can state that the UP billion dollar failure was simply a
problem caused by too much business... or was it bad policy but oops,
someone found an admission that it was an IT failure... but wait, power,
communications, were all working... and makinen found the press release
where GEISCO won the Y2K remediation job... but everything is fine,
professionals are working on it. Railroads don't have a Y2K problem,
experts have told us that and we should believe them and not:

1 ) press releases that they've outsourced the Y2K remediation. This
proves that Rail has a Y2K problem.

2 ) their president when he says UP had an IT failure. Confirming that
computer problems in ideal conditions can snarl rail traffic for months.

and oh yes, it's like a TV show, the truth is out there....

I'm reminded of the recent air traffic control failure... no planes
crashed so that proves that there won't be problem... our brains
are too small to know that the air traffic controllers will use pieces
of paper to keep track of the planes. Come on people. If the big,
expensive computer system is unnecessary, lets shut it down rightnow.

pull the plug, rightnow... if it's really unnecessary.

The fact is, we're running on the edge of failure all the time and we've
used up our luck.

Here's my guess... if the calendar rolls over tomorrow, it will be like
the UP debacle, the UPS strike, the S&L crisis, an ATC failure, a power
blackout, the Galaxy IV satellite outage and a 1000 point drop on the
DOW and more, all at once but about 100 times worse. Because it won't be
just UP, it will be every freight car in the country, the FAA, and the
Telcos, all scrambling at the same time.

I haven't seen any evidence of substantive remediation. We've had
some pathetic chirpings that no one's proved that anything will fail,
prove it, prove it. it must be OK.

..but that's not the issue. The issue is, where ever anyone's looked,
popped the hood, so to speak, we haven't found a big V-8 engine, we've
seen a cage with two gerbils running in a circle.

Mostly though, we're asked to 'trust us', professionals are working on
it. ...and when ever you look, maybe send in the Inspector General, we
find that everything's faked. Oh, and the information that the SEC
demanded... it's spin doctored and homogenized until it doesn't reveal
any information.

-- Paul Milne - If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast

cory hamasaki 11,824 hours.
Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:22
HighRise (APH (E-Waves) ) ID#401237:
You only have to pull the trigger once!



Avery strange combination.
Nikkei 225
Copper and Oil are hanging in there?
Grains are mixed f


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:22
Frustrated (BUFFORD, Chas and others...regarding CAU...) ID#298259:
Copyright © 1998 Frustrated/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I just recently listened to a conference call conducted by CAU.
I did not expect the call would last as long as it did and was not
prepared to take notes ( over 1 hour ) . So hear is a quick recap of
what I believe was most important.

I am very concerned - but all is not lost. They clearly have a cash
flow problem and are in the processing of selling one or two of their
properties to cover their current needs. They say one or both will
definately go through in the very near term. This does not include
the Briggs mine, the McDonald project or their industrial minerals
division ( which is now profitable and aiding their cash flow situation ) .

My biggest concern is the Anti-Mining Initiative on Ballot in Montana.

( from their website )
Effective July 20, 1998, an anti-cyanide gold and silver mining initiative has been qualified to beplaced on the ballot in Montana for the November 1998 election. If passed, new gold and silver mines and expansions to existing mines which use cyanide in the treatment and recovery process would be barred from development. The McDonald Gold Project near Lincoln, Montana, would be negatively affected if I-137 were to pass. Canyon Resources believes that the initiative can and will be defeated by an aggressive education campaign throughout the State in opposition to the initiative. A strong argument against the initiative
is that Montana has strong mining regulation laws which provide comprehensive environmental protection for any proposed mining project. In addition, the McDonald Gold Project, as proposed, would not affect in any way the chemistry, quality, or fisheries of the rivers near the project site. Canyon's attorneys have advised that the initiative, if passed, would probably be held unconstitutional or would comprise a ``taking'' under state and federal law. Another anti-mining initiative, I-122, was defeated by the voters of Montana in November, 1996.

IMO since the company has been so short on funds they have not been able
to spend nearly the level they would have liked to educated the public against the ballot issue. No one knows how the issue will be voted. They say their attorneys have advised them if passed the initiative would probably be deemed unconstitutional. We all know what that can mean. Lots of money to try to overturn the initiative. If any of you have any contacts in Montana who would be aware of the public opinion I would sure like to hear your thoughts.

CAU has been trying to find a joint venture partner for the McDonald project but admit that there will be no chance of that until after the initiative is decided in November. So that day will likely mark a key turning point for the company one way or the other.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:21
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:21
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:21
Charles Keeling (@ JACK RE: Other Sources) ID#344225:
I certainly enjoyed your last post.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:19
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:18
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Slowest website this side of the world tonight! Don't know how long I'll be able to tolerate it.

mozel -- Are you asking for an EO that was subsequently written in law ( s ) ?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:16
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:16
HighRise (So much for Intervention) ID#401237:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Shanghai Composite ^SSEC 11:20PM
Hong Kong
Hang Seng ^HSI 11:19PM


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:15
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:14
SDRer__A () ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A.Goose@Glad.your.back! You've been missed. FOX-MAN has gallantly
supplied the data ( for which our THANKS FOX-MAN {:- ) )

Shadowfax--Drukenmiller also said he had been an intellectual bear since 1991! He expects a short-term rally, the rationalization-- 'extreme' put volume and Fed possibly lowering interest rates, to equal Japan's no doubt-- He was less than convinced, far from enthuastic, and simply--in his terms--following his discipline. The replays, of course, eradicate all but the needed, tepid, endorsement of the liquid bigcaps.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:13
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:13
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:12
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:12
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The IMF on 25 August announced that it may need more time to
assess the effects on Ukraine of Russia's financial crisis and change
of government before setting a date to approve a $2.2 billion loan
to Ukraine, AP reported. The IMF Executive Board was
expected to meet by the end of August to approve the first
installment of the loan, totaling $200-250 million. Ukrainian
officials have said the loan will be used primarily to replenish the
National Bank's reserves.

Polish Catholic Church leaders met in Czestochowa on 25 August
to formulate the Church's official stance on the Polish-Jewish
controversy over some 150 crosses erected outside the former
Auschwitz concentration camp. In a statement issued after the
meeting, the Polish bishops expressed their conviction that the
large papal cross erected in 1979 will remain in place, while the
newly erected crosses will find a respectful place in our parishes
and churches, AP reported on 26 August. The statement appeals
for an end to erecting further crosses, saying that escalating the
conflict brings harm to the Church and turns against our
homeland. The bishops added that the campaign of erecting
crosses at Auschwitz painfully harms the different sensitivity of our
brothers, the Jews. JM

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:12
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:12
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:10
APH (E-Waves) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - I use a very loose interpretion of E-waves. So far I have seen nothing to indicate this is any more then a normal correction in an extended market. Therefore I believe we are in an ABC, but the C could be real nasty. In my opinion all market moves are considered abc's until the wave 4 proves it self.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:10
DBog (Go Slovakia) ID#267298:
Not all of Europe is down....

Slovakia is up 1.19%....

Go Gold

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:09
Charles Keeling (@ The Scene Re: Camdessus & IMF On the Hot Seat) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Why did Yeltsin bring Chernomyrdin back to power? All here at Kitko
will be happy to know that Chernomyrdin met today ( 8-26-98 ) with his old
pal Michael Camdessus, in the Crimea.

Chernomyrdin's objective: Save us, we can't fail. He made it plain to Camdesssus that Russia has to be BAILED OUT or it is back to the
cold war. Yeltsin is tottering and can only be saved by massive injections of IMF funds. It is plain that if Yeltsin is removed from power the Communists will return to power. OUR BOY CAMDESSUS is being
blackmailed. Camdessus can't bail out Russia. It is too big and too
messed up to be bailed out. It must fail, and rise from the ashes or
turn to total chaos, and probably war. Camdessus & the IMF can chalk up
yet another failure.

And our President is going into that trap. He will be on a hot seat that
will really test his metal. Clinton goes into Russia without backing from Congress, Senate or the people.

Here it is folks. Clinton will be able to say on his return: Lets get back to business and forget this Lewinsky thing so I can save you from a return to the COLD WAR.

Hold on to your wallet. Taxes to cover this bailout will be astronomical.



Catch the GOLD skyrocket.......

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:05
Mtn Bear (SE) (Bill Fleckenstein on gold and the WSJ) ID#347267:
Copyright © 1998 Mtn Bear (SE)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 26, 1998
Bill Fleckenstein:
Fallout hurts gold... All of this fallout didn't help the gold market, as the gold index was down about four percent ( gold itself was down only half a percent ) . Maybe after this panic puking, gold stocks might finally be reaching a bottom as the rest of the financial markets get pummeled. ---------

-----The other, more moronic article was in the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal, entitled Deflation is Nothing to Fear by Gary Schilling. He winds up saying that fortunately, the good deflation of excess supply is much more likely than the bad deflation of the 1930s. That is like saying six is different from half dozen. The Wall Street Journal has had a spate of terrible editorials, starting back on March 30 with one entitled, Are Stocks Overvalued? Not a Chance. Then on May 30 they published one called, Let's Burst 'The Bubble Theory.' Then on July 30, Growth Forever, Larry Kudlow wrote one that said, The economy is safe, even if Clinton isn't. August 14 had one that said, Asia's Crisis is Fueling the U.S. Boom, and now we have one that says, Deflation is Nothing to Fear. These articles will be keepers. In a few years we will look back and wonder how adults, supposedly experts, could possibly write this garbage. The Wall Street Journal is spewing out horrendous dis-information on its editorial page. You should read this stuff just to understand the lunacy that is out there. The article in the Financial Times is a much more sober and realistic view.
Problems have been brewing for over a year, and we have real problems as we are butting up against bubble valuations. Pretending this isn't the case, as the Journal is trying to do, isn't going to help anyone get prepared. I feel like I have to vent. It is asinine that a paper with the readership and quality of the WSJ can print this garbage with no
counterpoint. It is an editorial page, but they should show the other side.
William A. Fleckenstein

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:03
mozel (@State Legislatures Are Paid in FRN and , but No State shall.... make anything but gold and silver) ID#153102:
coin a tender in payment of debt. So, one plus one::: Are the bodies calling themselves State Legislatures the same bodies referred to in the Constitution for the United States of America and if so, how so ?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 23:00
Who Cares?__A (Holy Moly - Europe is down!) ID#242328:

Yikes, my link to Yahoo wasn't updating properly. I jus refreshed.
Everything in Europe is down by 2-5%!

I wonder if the Nikkei will finally blow. I've been waiting so damn

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:58
Who Cares?__A (EOs and State governments) ID#242328:

I posted this almost a year ago, but what the hell.

At you might be pleased to see
what COULD be considered the nucleus, the merest seed,
the slighest whisper... of an alternate national government.

For readers in western States, I strongly recommend that
you check out the WGA Initiatives link and see how much
is already in place.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:57
mozel (@Who_Cares Can't access your last post from short display.) ID#153102:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:57
ERLE (One gold producer,) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
is a contrarian.
I looked at Ashanti ( ASL.NYSE ) .
They have been buying up their own shares for a while. In the past four trading days they bought 354,403 shares of their common at approx 7.30 USD/share.
PE 12.0 Yld 2.5 closed at 6.8125. The are buying for treasury stock, to be sold later at market price. -obviously they think this is near the bottom.
I don't own them, but am tempted.

As an African company, they have been hit later than the north American companies.
To throw approx 2.5 million USD at their own stock, when they really might need the cash soon because of the worldwide currency meltdown says something to me.
Do any of our equities gurus know much about Ashanti?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:56
Skip (@AZAU (the PM stocks) and @Dutchman) ID#287129:
AZAU: Thank you for your posting. IMO it was sincere, and filled with truth. Unfortunately, truth doesn't seem to be in fashion in 1998.

DUTCHMAN: Maybe it's not too late for Pegasus shareholders to receive some value for our shares. I wonder what would happen to Pegasus shares if gold were to suddently soar into the stratosphere? Maybe that's just wishful thinking... 1998 seems to be the year of punishment for all who believe in PM's and PM stocks. Let us pray that changes before the end of this year...we DESERVE some financial healing!!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:54
Jack (Gee LBG) ID#252127:

All we have to do is go over to CNBC, PEI, read Abby and reports by Ted and Andy to read the trite your pitching at us.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:54
mozel (@Eldorado) ID#153102:
Off hand, I only know of two bills of indeminity enacted by Congress. One for the actions of Lincoln before it came into Session and one for the actions of FDR before Congress came into session. After FDR, Congress changed inaugruation day so no more Presidents could steal a march on it. If you have other facts, please post.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:53
Steve in TO__A (Shlomo - Concerning the financial media . . . ) ID#287337:
you've got to remember that when they say something 'negative' some very powerful people get upset. You can never count on establishment investment advisors to get you out of an investment when it is overvalued.

There are conflicts of interest and intimidation throughout the industry. I saved an article from the Financial Post about how some companies try to squelch bearish articles by investment analysts by threatening to sue them.

- Steve

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:52
Who Cares?__A (EOs and State governments) ID#242328:

I posted this almost a year ago, but what the hell.

At you might be pleased to see
what COULD be considered the nucleus, the merest seed,
the slighest whisper... of an alternate national government.

For readers in western States, I strongly recommend that
you check out the WGA Initiatives link and see how much
is already in place.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:51
APH (John_B) ID#255226:
I was short from 1097.50 stopped put at 1103.00....shorted again at 1109.00, used a trailing stop and was knocked out at 1187.00.....may go long but will look to get short at 1120 -/+

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:48
mozel (@robnoel Well, well, I see Bugall LGB just added his vote of confidence in your position.) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If that doesn't shake your confidence in your position, maybe this will. Sanders is saying that there is no basis in law to justify paying a numismatic premium for a gold coin. He is not saying there is not a basis for doing so in comparative price histories.

If you maintain there is a basis in law to justify paying a numismatic premium for a gold coin, what is it ? [ And before we discuss paying with a bank check, please find out what a bank check is. There is no $10,000 cumulative reporting requirement on purchases paid for by bank check. And please do not use the expression bullion coin in reference to any coin which is money. All coins minted by the US mint bearing a $ mark are money. ]

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:47
Auric (101st Airborne Division on Full Alert?) ID#240288:

No confirmation that I can find yet. What's
this about. Hurricane Bonnie? Mid East?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:45
Gollum (Paper) ID#43349:
I would think paper money would be pretty meaningless to a central bank. I mean, after all, they can issue as much or as little of it as they want anytime they want. They can inflate or deflate it as much as they want. So when one central bank wants to buy or sell something to another central bank, what do they use for money?
When tons of gold are moved through the LBMA, who are the buyers? Many of the sellers, of course, are people convinced gold has lost it's luster because you can get so little paper for it.
Who determines how much paper you can get for it?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:45
IDT (APH & Kapex) ID#228128:
Have you guys looked at the NADAC 100 and the DOW transports. Each looks like they have completed 4 waves and are in wave 5 down. I'm confused. Comments. Do you look to the other indices to support or refute your models.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:41
2BR02B? (Shlomo) ID#266105:

Caught that Druckenmiller interview. There's an astute
observation posted by Shadowfax at the bottom of this segment,
at 21:01.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:39
kapex (APH: Are you assuming that the decline will unfold in an a-b-c, or as) ID#218254:
I am, as 5 waves down for an -A-, 3 waves up for a -B-,then 5 waves down for a -C-? IMHO, we have only completed wave 1, of the 1st 5 waves down.
We are in the 2nd wave now. Wave 3 has yet to happen. ( it might be happening now! ) When those 5 waves down are complete, then that will be an -A-. If this decline from the highs were only a correction, then I would expect a A-B-C, 3 down, 3 up, 3 down. If the bull is done which IMHO, it is, then the first decline should unfold as 5 waves down. We haven't concluded wave 2 yet. ( maybe ) What say you?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:37
BUGal__A (Why do Kitcoites cheer for market crashes?) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Once again today, we see that highly Bearish stock market sentiment has been BAD for Gold and silver. We have seen the same effect from worldwide currency instability and even political instability lately.

If worldwide economic collapse occurs, and massive deflation with attendant depression and job loss rears it's ugly head, I'm afraid that all those who seem to THRIVE on signs of such a future, will be greatly disappointed in the outcome.

Gold will drop, gold shares will drop, the U.S. dollar will not become worthless by any means, but will be chased instead, and those who think they will somehow best all their sheeplike brethren out there by having metal in their posession, will find they have chased an illusion to it's final bitter senseless end.

Better to start thinking in terms of how to flaot all boats higher, than to think you have the only lifboat on a sinking Titanic. If the world drowns, we shall all suffer. IMHO, Gold will offer little if any solace.

A new boom and turnaound in the world economy, coupled with inflationary boosts in money supply, ( and perhaps an extreme political crises ) are the harbingers of higher Gold prices. Not worldwide depression.

With the track record of the past few years, I fail to see why so many on this site seem to light up with glee at any signs of U.S. or world economic collapse. You'll be proved wrong, not right, if things get bad enough.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:37
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
mozel -- TOO often, the stupid legislatures do write laws conforming to EOs. Thus, rubber-stamping the 'Executives' wishes. Rule be decree by any other name. They all ought to be strung up by their balls! And even IF the legislatures do not rubber stamp an 'item', who out there is going to do squat about it?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:32
Gollum (@Gene ) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well, it all depends. If everyone knew that rates were going to go down to 2%, they would sell everything to buy bonds. Gold and everything else would tank.
That sort of is what's happening now. The inverted yeild curve implies the world is betting on US recession. Recession brings lowered rates. That and flight money brings a run on bonds and rates go down whether the Fed does it officially or not.
On the other hand, if rate were just declared to be 2% byt the Fed unexpectedly it would bring a windfall to bond holders. They would immediately sell and redeem every bond they had to invest in things bringing a higher rate of supply. The resulting surge in inflation would bring a rise in gold/silver prices which would turn into a price explosion as the massive short positions tried to get covered.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:30
small investor (The War on Gold) ID#105143:
Copyright © 1998 small investor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I was going to work this morning, and stopped by the local grocery store to get a quart of juice. Seems like every time I stop by, the line just keeps getting longer. The lady behind the counter said nobody wants to work any more. After waiting about ten minutes in line I was able to exchange my paper for the quart of juice. I thought to myself, if they paid $20.00 per hour, they might be able to get people to work there. No I thought, the work is very hard with lots of stress. It takes me about 20 minutes to get to work. I have noticed lots of help wanted signs along the route every morning. Seems like more and more every month. I thought to myself, perhaps they will have to raise wages! Oh no,
Alan Greenspan will take care of that. I heard that he is not going to allow inflation. Never mind that the world is melting, contracting and deflating. I am sure that a quarter point drop in the discount rate will do the trick. Stocks will soar to new hights and Dell will hit 300.
What about the War on Gold you ask! Go back to what follows these large deflationary periods ( CRB index ) ( 1978 ) . What follows is a reversal for those who stay in the game. Don,t you see, the U.S. must at some point join in the game. The U.S. will have to inflate in order to stop the deflation. M-3 is the highest since 1970. Read Miltons comments on M-3 in this weeks Barrons! Balance M-3 with World Events ( good luck ) . The market is a living organism that constantly changes. It is getting old and tired from going up since 1981. More money-more money it takes to stay afloat. More money-more money. At some point ( I dont know when it is ) the world will sell dollars. I hear the Russians stash them in their mattress. We will have the exact opposite of what we have today. The potential is huge and worth betting on. There is a war going on. It has just begun. I think I will come up with the Dell/gold ratio- might be interesting to track. CRB lowest in 18 years. I read on the world gold council pages once that all the gold every taken out of the ground, is only 60 yards by 60 yards by 60 yards high. I thought to myself, that can't be right. Surely their must be acres and acres of this stuff. Then I thought about my wifes gold. Not very much I thought. I guess if you melt all that stuff down- no it can,t be right. Buy Dell, never mind that it sells for x times earnings. Everyone will own a Dell. So little gold, maybe I should buy some of that 60 yards by 60 yards by 60 yards high! The War on Gold to be continued...............................................................

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:29
Suspicious (NIKKEI down 2.73% 14,460) ID#287312:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:27
BUGal__A (@ Robnoel................ Gold Saints vs. bullion) ID#206235:
Copyright © 1998 BUGal__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just adding my vote of confidence in your position. I pulled up the site in question, and indeed, such blatant misinformation ought to be corrected.

But then, if you look at the sit eagain, you'll see that they are also advocating Chelation therapy, a totally disproven and dangerous therapy which ll credible studies have shown to not only be ineffective at what the proponents say it will do, but dangerous to the liver, kidney, and bones as well! ( Uh oh, now I've done it, the VooDoo anti science and medicine cultists will be after me now! )

In any case, it's quite clear that Saints went up in value about $50.00 each in the past year, while Bullion Gold coins dropped about $40.00. This doesn't mean Numismatic coins are for everyone, or even for the majority of Gold investors. Indeed, there are many dealers who are hyping overpriced pre 1933 Gold with phony contrived confiscation arguments ( why I can think of one such dealer off the top of my head that is near and dear to this very site! ) .

But to suggest that folks will always do better sticking with bullion coins is of course absurd for anyone who understands and follows the Numismatic market.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:26
TYoung (Gollum...mummmmms the word) ID#317193:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:23
Hedgehog (Spin spin spin.) ID#39857:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thursday 27 August, 1998 ( 10:07am AEST )

The United States says it is concerned that Iraq may have struck a deal
with Sudan to allow it to develop chemical weapons out of sight of
United Nations arms inspectors.

The American State Department says it has evidence of ties between
Sudanese authorities, Iraq and the al-Shifaa pharmaceutical plant that
was bombed by US missiles 10 days ago.

The U-S launched missile strikes on the factory in Khartoum, claiming
that it was producing an ingredient used for deadly VX nerve gas.

The al-Shifaa plant had a 200-thousand dollar United Nations contract
to provide Iraq with veterinary medicines under the oil-for-food
humanitarian program.

The U-S State Department says the contract could have provided cover
for Sudan to develop exports of chemical weapons to Iraq.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:22
Dutchman (Gloomy Gold-Bugs!) ID#215235:
Don't you realize that the bearish tone represented on this forum is a sure sign that gold will rise. We are goldbugs, the last to throw in the towel on our precious. What more accurate signal exists to forecast that the bottom is nearly in? Patience. In another month, there will be an entirely diffcerent tone on this forum.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:22
Monkee Person (@More colluding, just in time.) ID#288105:

Don't the conductors, I mean the Rockefellers, have an expanse near Jackson Hole?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:21
Gollum (@TYoung ) ID#43349:
Shhhhhh. Don't want to talk about it. It might not be good to have the wrong people listening.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:21
FOX-MAN__A (The Sept. S&P500 is currently down to around 1081.50// It had closed today) ID#288186:
at 1087.80//Gold and Silver are down small amounts tonight.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:20
6pak (mozel) ID#335190:
Mozel good discussion, over my head, considering I am a Canadian.

Your position suggests, that citizen's are much the loser, because so few are aware of their rights. Well the truth is, citizen's such as yourself, are very informed, and do not get the just consideration, for the outstanding interest, and knowledge, you have in your presentation.

Hey, you can attack my positions regarding history,laws, and government, and I will be honoured. No, I will not like to be challenged, to rethink a position, but hell, the debate will be rewarding eh!

Take Care

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:19
TYoung (Gollum...what if...Got physical?) ID#317193:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:16
TYoung (Take heart...Pakistan and Sir Lanka are up...) ID#317193:
Pakistan by 2.39% and Sir Lanka by 2.08%... now that will make you fell better...right? WRONG.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:15
Shlomo (Druckenmiller/media manipulation) ID#288399:
Copyright © 1998 Shlomo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Did anyone see the Ron Insane-a/Stanley Druckenmiller show today on CNBC from 3:10 EST till about 3:35 EST, curtesy of the PPT? Ron couldn't hold himself back TOO long from the staged, So, Stanley, and how do you view US equities at this point....blah, blah, blah. What timing!!Market recovered in a flash.

How come the bad news on sees on line ( newswires, market indexes ) never seems to get fully manifested on CNBC? It's like some smooth-over deal, with those clones always smiling at the camera. Unless they mention gold, of course, which is always followed by a disgusted look, or a smirk, or a negative comment. What propaganda!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:14
mozel (@robnoel @The Point Is Executive Orders Are NOT Law;) ID#153102:
Congress is enacting emergency legislation. ( look for and for other purposes in the title of the bill ) . State legislatures are likewise enacting emergency legislation. Look at state revenue bills. However, even in this emergency, E.O.'s do not have legal effect without enabling legislation or appropriations after the fact and never are Law.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:13
John B__A (speed) ID#77133:
I appreciate your droll humor.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:12
Gene (Interest Rates) ID#390275:
If the prime rate drops to 2%, how will this effect the price of gold?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:11
Gollum (What if) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
What is things got soooo bad because of the strong $US that in order to save the world ( out of the kindness of their hearts ) the Warburg-Rothschild-Morgan-Goldman-Lehman-etc cartel that owns the Fed devalued the dollar. Would they then only have to buy back all those treasuries with devalued dollars?

Wouldn't the world be greatful to thus be saved from the $US catastrophe?

What if having sold all those treasuries in the first place ht Fed was in possession of so many of the dollars that they were in such scarce supply that the prices of commodities and precious metals and such would go down to record breaking lows? What if because of such low prices the central banks, moving furtively were able to buy large amounts of gold to stock up their reserves, which publicaly they hafd been rumored to have been selling? What if they called in their leases?

Gosh, so many what if's.

What if the new world order is almost at hand?

What if all the countries helped by the IMF are now basically owned by the central banking system?

What then, my friends, what then?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:09
John B__A (APH) ID#77133:
I'm wondering if you still hold that SPU8 short or were stopped out at 1101? Or are you now waiting to see 1120-1125 before shorting again. I find that I'm generally better off ( GT 50% ) being in sync with your positions. Best wishes,

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:08
TYoung (You know when gold tanks this site ain't happy....we wait for gold to rise so...) ID#317193:
you may all be in better spirits. Yes?

If you have not sold your gold mining shares by now why would you bother? They are not worth much now. Gold lower means nothing but physical will have value ...soon.

The powers that be better get gold up or the world financial structure is as DEAD as gold mining shares and only physical gold will have value.

Scary. Yes?


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:07
Reify (Yep, back home again) ID#413109:
Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:00
Steve in TO__A ( Hey Reify - Nice to see you're back online . . . ) ID#287337:
Thanks friend for the info, and a pleasure making your acquaintance.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:06
FOX-MAN__A (Buckler and vronsky; It's always good(and wise) to read your posts and) ID#288186:
visit your sites. Obviously, there is great significance in watching
these foreign markets, especially the Asian ones, as of late...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:06
ssc-nut__A (Boys the Party is over) ID#288286:
I am not very smart but in my 35 years of retailing I have never seen people so scared or so sick of what is happening to our country. Most dont really know about other markets in the world but they know something is not right and do not know what is going on. When the Average Jon and Jane on the street stop buying we have all had it!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:04
Reify (FWIW) ID#413109:
This is the one to watch for a change in direction IMHO

XAU and gold look close to a turn. I have been wrong, at times.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:04
Fred (To: John B__A, Re: Selling Gold Stocks) ID#341234:
I have been selling gold stocks and buying Prudent Bear. I think there is a good chance that the price of gold will go nowhere for a couple years, and the mining companies will mine themselves out of business. At that point, gold will rally big time, but the mining companies will already be liquidated. I cannot understand why they do not cut production proportional to the reduction in gold price. Instead, they continue to flood the market with cheap gold while fooling themselves with the cash cost figure. They are reducing costs by mining only richer ore and cutting exploration. Not good for the long term.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:03
AZAU (the PM stocks) ID#257253:
Copyright © 1998 AZAU/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
you are not alone. And you will be less alone as the rest of the market undergoes the catharsis that you have. The primary difference is that they never expected to lose, and were told so time and again by legions of brokers, analysts, and media. Consider ourselves the learned, and the burned. Move up and on from here, and capitalize on those lessons. You are burned but not immolated as masses may be.
You invested in the most basic of fundamentals, which, as you see, have been most violated. This is not mere belief, but a fact.
Thanks for sharing the experience, and may all of us mark that well.
Keep your faith, because in the end, that is all you will have, anyway.
those that have none will be truly beggars.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:02
vronsky (Nearly All Asian Markets In Kamikaze Dive ) ID#426220:

After nearly a year of agonizing stock market declines and currency devaluations, all that is lacking is for someone to administer the coup de grace… and it looms on the horizon: the devaluation of the Chinese yuan.

Asian Intra-day charts at following URL - delete the en in word golden before Posting to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:01
mozel (@Dave @Circular Talk) ID#153102:
An Executive Order that implements a duly enacted Statute does not thereby become a Statute. That is an absurdity void of all reason and logic. A statute may have no legal effect until implemented by the executive by order and publication in the Federal Register. In such a case, the legal effect of the order extends only so far as the authority of the enabling statute empowers it.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 22:00
Steve in TO__A (Hey Reify - Nice to see you're back online . . . ) ID#287337:
are you home yet or just posting from someone else's computer enroute?

It is possible to make seeds last longer. You can store them at cooler temperatures under dry nitrogen, as I recall? You essentially put 'em in sealed cans filled with nitrogen.

I'm sure there are other ways to make seeds last longer. Why don't you do a search on the WWW?


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:59
Speed (John B) ID#29048:
It's never a bad time to take a profit. : )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:56
Shadowfax__A (Everyone listen to Dick Gregory) ID#290281:
On Chuck Harder show. Playing on audio continuously.
Dick Gregory says Clinton will step down minimum 6wks, maximum 90 days
or be assassinated. Listen to all the gory details. Mindboggling!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:53
John B__A (Survey to All ) ID#77133:
Is it too late to sell gold equity stocks?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:53
Bill Buckler (Japan nears 1990s Bear Market Low) ID#256381:
Copyright © 1998 Bill Buckler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
According to my data, the two lowest levels reached by the Nikkei since the Japanese market topped at the end of 1989 are as follows.

August 7, 1992 14358

July 3, 1995 14485

Near mid-session on August 27, 1998, the Nikkei stood at 14414.

This is getting right to the verge of ultimate meltdown.

I have a page up at The Privateer website showing the comparative moves on the Dow and the Nikkei since the BOJ/Fed joint intervention to rescue the Yen back on June 17 this year. What the charts there show clearly is the fact that the two indices have moved almost in lock step since then.

Both rallied in the aftermath of the intervention. Both rallies topped out ( the Dow at its 9337 all time high ) within one day of each other in mid July. Both have been falling since then.

The action on the Dow and Nikkei for the past ten weeks, and the action in Japan today, are ominous indeed for the Dow.

There is a link to the chart at the home page of The Privteer

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:53
Auric (Bill2j @ 21:08) ID#240288:

My 2 ƒlorrins on why Gold will go up-- A shift of wealth from paper to stuff. This process has occured in SE Asia, and is occuring in Russia and Latin America now. Up to now, Europe and the US have been relatively immune from this process. As I see it, the $ is at an extreme overvaluation. Not to say it couldn't get even more overvalued, just that the risk/benefit overwhelmingly favors Gold.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:53
APH (E- wave (for what it's worth)) ID#255226:
kapex & IDT - Here is my view of the waves as of 9 PM cst. SPU8 the move down from 1199 to 1048 was wave A. We have done waves a and b of wave B and are now in wave c of B, this wasve should top around Sept 4 between 1120 - 1125, then a wave c decline to 950 - 900.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:52
BG__A (Thanks Dutchman;) ID#261304:

I'll check out ECO. I'm going to sell some dec. futures and move a part into stocks so i can get some sleep at nite!! At those kind of prices I can pick up a bunch!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:52
Hedgehog (15 a day connoisseur has his say on cigargate ) ID#39857:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:51
Dave (@To wit: mozel.....) ID#261155:
and under the Laws of the United States applicable thereto.....LOL

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:50
mozel (@PH in LA::: I'm OK; You're NOT OK) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:55
PH in LA ( Mozel: Clarification Requested. ) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:44
mozel ( @Jack ) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A certificate is not the thing. A Certificate of Title for a motor vehicle is not the title to the motor vehicle.


Are you OK? Your prose seems to be suffering from more than its usual lack of lucidity. If I may ask; what, then, IS the difference between a Certificate of Title and the Title of a motor vehicle?

####### The Title is the evidence of legal ownership. A Certificate of Title is a document issued by a government agency authorizing you to register a motor vehicle. The Title to a car or truck is also known as the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin. It may also be called a Manufacturer's Certification or Verification or Declaration of Origin. If a store gave you a Certificate of Receipt, it would not be the same thing as a Receipt, would it ? A certificate of a thing is never the thing itself. It is a fallacy to think it so and an impossibility for it to be so.

The State, having the Title in its possession, is the legal owner of your car. You are just allowed to use it until the State wants it.

While I have your attention, would you mind also clarifying the following:? ...when Kings and Popes wanted knights to go on Crusades and knights needed gold for armor.

If the Certificate of Title is not the Title, surely the gold is not the armor, either. Did the knights need the gold to buy armor or are you really suggesting that they fashioned their armor from gold? Was that solid gold, or gold plated silver, or what?

######### It was beside the point and is immaterial to the process of borrowing whether the knights needed the gold to make armor or to purchase armor. Likewise, the bank doesn't care if you borrow FRN's to buy a silly hat or to make one out of FRN's.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:47
Dutchman (SKIP) ID#215235:
I feel your pain. I own about 30,000 shares of Pegasus. Even though they are only worth $.04/share, I refuse to sell them. I believe there may evolve a law suit against Pegasus launched by angry shareholders who feel the company and their shares were manipulated. This is just a hunch. What do you think?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:46
Dave (@mozel) ID#261155:
Executive proclamations/orders are, and do become law if they cite text of an existing statute/constitutional provision...and congress don't and/or can't reject them.....^s^....

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:46
Speed (ssc-nut) ID#29048:
I do some day trading in SSC. At the end of the second quarter they had 14.5 million in cash and silver bullion. Their reserves are increasing and their costs are finally coming down. Even on slow days the volume is several hundred thousand shares. I know...I won't quit my day job.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:43
Dutchman (SSC-NUT) ID#215235:
I only watch the silver market peripherally. SSC seems like a solid silver miner and should go up when gold and silver rise. Seems to me that at $.75/share, I might buy more. Cost-average your holdings and be willing to keep adding to your position until silver makes its inevitable turn skyward. Personally, I like silver common date coins at this time. Stock up for the impending fiat currency crash. Silver dimes and quarters will become the currency of the realm ( IMVHO ) .

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:42
Skip (@Bill2j) ID#287129:
Copyright © 1998 Skip/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I wish that I could disagree with you, but I'm quite pessimistic after the incessant losses dating back well over a year. My two heaviest gold stocks were Caledonia Mining ( CALVF ) and Pegasus Gold ( PSGQF ) . Between the two, I had almost ten thousand shares... Let me disclose my bleeding:

CALVF was over $9.00 and on its way even higher in the not-too-distant past; and is currently at .15 ( 15 cents ) per share. PSGQF ( formerly PGU ) was well over $5.00 in just the last two years, and is currently .03 ( three cents ) per share!!!!!!!! Although I did not buy either at its high, my purchases average about 1/2 of the high. Pegasus is about to go totally under, erasing all my shares ( and my money invested ) . Although I believe that Caledonia Mining is solid, it is about to be de-listed from Nasdaq because of its low share value. It is still listed on a Canadian exchange; and is quite probably an EXCELLENT buy at current prices.

I've taken losses on ALL my gold stocks. Furthermore, I made the mistake of making LEVERAGED metals investments; and have been skinned alive financially. Almost everything I've done for over 2 years has resulted in a loss...non-stop, incessant, relentless losses for over two agonizing years. When will it ever end? I made the right decisions for the right reasons, at the WRONG time!!! Let us have empathy for those who lose their asses when the DOW crashes. However, I'll have a difficult time having any empathy for those who have kept PM's artificially depressed beyond what is reasonable. When gold stays at its production costs for so many months, that is IMO nothing more than manipulation.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:41
Bully Beef (Steel yourselves persons/ perdaughters!) ID#260119:
Don't pee your pants now. The good fight is about to begin. JUST LOOK AROUND. FEAR AND LOATHING On WALL Street. Je me souviens . Gold 330.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:38
Gollum (Psssssst!) ID#43349:
Don't look now, but the dollar is down...against almost everything.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:37
BillD (Japan just went thru 14400...14395) ID#261295:

and dropping fast...CHEEZEHEAD should be shouting...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:37
robnoel__A ( whats your point...I understand the WAR POWERS ACT......) ID#411112:


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:34
ssc-nut__A (dutchmanwhat about ssc?) ID#288286:
Any thoughts on ssc that might be encourageing? I have owned it at 3 bucks and it is now .75. I must admit I am scared it death.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:34
clktech__A (Is Interest rate/Inflation paradigm wrong?) ID#338111:
Everyone *knows* if prices or wages rise, then CB's threaten to put up rates. Why? They still keep printing the stuff. Monetary inflation always increases. Does high interest rates encourage people not to spend ie. keep the stuff at the bank, thus reigning in the inevitable effect of monetary inflation? Is that the other reason to raise rates - to save the 'value' of a currency? The Ruskies have done it and it hasn't saved the rouble...

Lots of questions. I am seeking opinions and facts.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:32
Jack (Golden Cheesehead?) ID#252127:

Talk over at SI's Vengold thread sez that they have the right of first refusal ( trofr ) on RTZ's 17% interest on Lihir. Do you know anything about the validity of this?

Price fall probably has to do on how Vengold will pay off the funds for their last Lihir share purchase, to 19+% interest rather than the present gold price.

If the above rumor about the ( trofr ) is true, I believe that they are dealing the cards and PDG will let them exist. If your lurking and feel up to it, please comment. CAPS ARE OK.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:32
Reify (I'm just a city slicker from NY) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
but I too am interested in my family's survival, and eating as well,
not necessarily eating well, and I, like you have been reading and
studying the Why to Kay problem, and have learned that seeds when
saved lose their potential 50% the first year and another 50% the
second year. This from a specialist, in a nursery that sells them
in NY area. This would mean if you buy a package of seeds and intend
not to use them until the turn of the century, you success rate will
be in the neighborhood of 25%. I recommend you check into other ways
of how seeds might survive, and let me know.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:32
Gollum (Notable transactions of '96) ID#43349:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:30
kapex (Elliot Wave: The possibility still exists for the A-B-C wave 2 to be complete) ID#218254:
and the 3rd wave down, as underway. The charts could be easily counted as 3 up, 3 down and 3 back up to yesterdays high. Just thought you might like to be aware of that also.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:30
Speed (Leland) ID#29048:
Thanks for posting the CRB index report. I took the family out for supper. Did you catch this line from Kaplan's site? Big money is moving in to gold mining now.

In addition to gold mining executives heavily buying shares of their own companies, professional portfolio managers have been loading up on gold mining shares at their highest rate since January 1993, the last time the XAU was below 70. On Wednesday, for example, Trimark Investment Management announced that they had purchased 300,000 common shares of Kinross Gold ( KGC ) .

August 26, 1998
Trimark Funds Hold 10.1% Of Kinross Gold Corp.

Dow Jones Newswires

TORONTO -- Trimark Investment Management Inc. said mutual funds sponsored by it have acquired 300,000 common shares of Kinross Gold Corp. ( KGC ) , giving them a total of 29,420,000 Kinross shares, or 10.1%. In a news release, Trimark said the shares were purchased in open-market transactions through the Toronto Stock Exchange, for investment purposes.

Trimark Financial Corp. ( T.TMF ) , through Trimark Investment Management, is a mutual fund company.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:28
BillD (My goodness man...this is a disaster) ID#261295:

Japan now down 2.95% and dropping...14,425

When in trouble, or in doubt,

Run in circles, scream and shout

Now's the time...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:28
Jeil (King Billy Bob Clinton) ID#253228:
Copyright © 1998 Jeil/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My wife and I were having a discussion about the slow destruction of freedom at the hands of government. I think freedom produces wealth for the majority. Slavery produces poverty for the majority and wealth for the priveleged few. Slavery only works that way cause there would be little advantage for the majority to plunder the few, while there is some real benefit for the few who manage to plunder the many.

Anyway, it looks to me that people lose freedom because they want to keep the wealth that comes from freedom and they keep paying more attention to wealth than freedom. At the same time the politically sly work to get wealth by destroying freedom. It is only when the loss of freedom finally produces so much poverty that people finally insist ( revolt ) on freedom and then the wealth comes back.

One comment I made was that some people work at becomming masters in a slave society like ours and a few like Billy Bob Clinton manage to make it to the top. I told my wife that he probably feels like he has made it to the position of king. She said that some others obviously think he is king also since they are kneeling at his feet.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:23
ChasAbar__A (Leave me a loan...) ID#287358:
A couple billion here, and a couple billion there... Dang, Uncle George better not come around asking me for a loan.

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:20
mozel (@Executive Orders are NOT Law) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You may take the existence of this discussion as conclusive proof that government run education is a waste and a scam to raise up ignorant citizens. Boiled down the statement that executive orders become law after a time if not objected to is a declaration that we live under government by decree. That the Congress of the United States is indistinguishible from the Russian Duma. Spreading this nonsense amounts to public destruction of the Constitution and of the very idea of government according to law.

All written constitutions prescribe the mode and process of making laws. What says the Constitution for the united States of America on the mode and process of making laws ? It says revenue bills must originate in the House of Representatives. It says further that bills in general must be passed by a majority of both Houses and signed by the President within a specific interval of time in order to beome Law. Read the Constitution yourself if you doubt this.

Now, neither Congress nor the President can change this singly or in concert. It would require an amendment ratified by three fourths of the States.

Even if a bill is properly passed by both Houses and properly signed by the President, it may yet not be law. The essential parts of every bill to be enacted into law are 1. The Title 2. the enacting clause 3. the body. Without a Title a bill has no name, nothing by wich it may be referenced. A typical enacting clause is: Constitution of California -1879- SECTION 1. The enacting clause of every law shall be as follows; The People of the State of California, represented in Senate and assembly, do enact as follows. Without an enacting clause, a bill cannot become law even if it is signed by the President or Governor and passed by majorities of both Houses. see In Re Seat of Government, 1 Washington Territory, 114, 123 ( 1861 ) US Supreme Court. Forty-six state Constitutions prescribe the enacting clause. However, there need not be a constitutional provision for an enacting clause to make its usage mandatory. So held the Georgia Supreme Court among others. Virtually every state Supreme Court has held the enacting clause essential and have voided statutes not having it. But, a statute without an enacting clause can be on the books masquerading as law and will remain there until someone challenges it on the grounds of its lacking an enacting clause.

The enacting clause is that portion of a statute which gives it jurisdictional identity and constitutional authenticity. Georgia Supreme Court. Without an enacting clause a court has no evidence before it that it has jurisdiction and no evidence before it that it has authority to judge from the constitution under and by which it is sitting.

All the above is fundamental law. But, government will get away with just as much as people will let it and ignorant people let it get away with a lot.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:15
BillD (Houston...we have a problem...) ID#261295:

Japan down 2.58% to 14400+-..
Now that's serious...more meltdown to come ... which means ofcourse ..more holding Gold down as well..


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:09
strat (hypothetical question...or heresy?) ID#93241:
What if the Euro doesn't get off the ground 1/1/1999 ( for whatever reason ) ? Any takers?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:09
Tantalus Rex ($280oz) ID#295111:

We are so close to the bottom cause the POG is at $280 an ounce. Few mines can operate at a profit at such a low price.

Many gold mines are now takeover targets.

Yep, $280 is a magic number.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:08
Bill2j (@Skip) ID#259400:
Copyright © 1998 Bill2j/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Skip, I wish I could throw you a lifeline but I'm afraid I can't. Like you I am way, way off on my gold investments. Much to my discredit I waited until after I had dropped a small fortune to do my homework. After a solid year of reading and listening I have yet to hear a credible argument put forth as to why gold should go up. I think Kitco is inhabited by some of the most intelligent people i haver ever run across in my life. Yet, at the very bottom of all their arguments it is always a matter of faith rather than a logical reason. Gold will go up because it did in 1929-1932. Gold will go up because adjusted for inflation it is cheaper now than when the Spanish took over South America. Gold will go up because a great wave of enlightenment will wash over the world and people will come to their senses and see the true value of gold as money. My prayers are with you my friend but until I hear a logical reason for gold to go up in value my bet is that it will only continue to go down.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:08
FOX-MAN__A (A.Goose; Hey! Good to hear from ya! I used to watch your posts pretty closely) ID#288186:
because I thought that watching the Comex Warehouse Totals was
somewhat significant. I hope you don't mind, but I've tried to
carry on the daily postings of these Comex stats...

I know you haven't posted a whole lot lately, but would sure appreciate
your takes on the PM markets, and even the Comex Warehouse stats! TIA

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:07
Dutchman (BG) ID#268260:
Copyright © 1998 Dutchman/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Although others on this forum will refute my position regarding the gold stock with the best bang for the buck when gold rise, I like Echo Bay Mines ( ECO ) . It is among the most highly liquid gold stocks. It's price is low ( 1 3/4 ) relative to its 52-week and three-year highs, and I believe this stock will take off faster than most of the rest North American companies. I, personally, would not buy Canadian or Australian mining shares because when the dollar turns, these mining companies are less likely to realize the full upside potential of American gold mining companies ( IMHO ) . Hey, but what do I know. I still have a bunch of nearly worthless Pegasus Gold shares.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:05
Tantalus Rex (The Euro) ID#295111:

The strength of the US$ will be lessened as the demand for the Euro strengthens next year.

In by books, there's a 99% chance the POG in US$ will rise based on this fact alone.

@HOPEFUL trying to predict the exact bottom is so hard to do and not worth the risk. Just keep buying gold stocks cause we definately are so close to the bottom.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:02
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:
Bill Fleckenstein comments on the barage of lies spewing from the Wall Street Journal editorial page. Fundamental spin -- what me worry? The bull will continue forever.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:01
JP (Hopefull---YES, YES, YES---Use Xau weakness to accumulate the best senior gold stocks) ID#253153:
on the NYSE and the American exchange. We may suffer for another 4 weeks but when the move begin in early October it will be very rewarding to the patient holders.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:01
ChasAbar__A (As usual) ID#287358:
As usual, you have to delete the w in wrapped before posting it to
the eagle. Do we rely too heavily on spell-checkers, or what?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 21:01
Shadowfax__A (Net Chatter) ID#290281:

Isn't interesting how one man's words can turn a market. I don't know if it will hold, but the Soros guy on CNBC just said he was long the U.S. market and it immediately popped 50 points. I guess when you manage, what did they say, 20 billion, people listen. Wouldn't it be interesting if he had his guys back at the ranch are selling.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:57
Gollum (Warburgs, and Rothschilds, and Morgans, oh my!) ID#43349:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:55
HopeFull ( you say buy gold equities now at current prices?) ID#402148:


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:54
A.Goose (Tf my memory serves me ...) ID#240171:
we are about to break ( or possible have already just broken ) , a very important support line for the Nikkei.

Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 8:57PM 14549.45 -316.58 -2.13%

Of course, it may recover this evening, but lower than 14549 close doesn't bode well for Japan and the rest of the world market either.

Please correct me if I am wrong, since I have been wrong so many other times.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:53
JP (Gold equities move to begin ONLY during the equities selling climax ) ID#253153:
which I expect in Sep, 1998. As I have posted before, expect a crash in Sep to end in early Oct. Gold mining shares will begin to move up
towards the end of Sep as the Dow descend to 4500-5500 range. All gold equities shares, as the Dutchman said represent life time buying opportunity.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:52
Caper (Monica/BJ) ID#300202:
Free Republic poster re Fox News carrying story ref White House doctorin' visitation

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:50
Goldteck (JapanNikkei Down -296.80) ID#431200:

JapanNikkei 225^N225 8:56PM 14569.23 -296.80 -2.00%

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:50
Skip (@kapex) ID#287129:
Your point is well-taken. Indeed, if I had more money to invest, I would be rejoicing over the fire-sale prices of gold and gold stocks. However, time is NOT on my I can only hope and pray that gold and PM stocks will rise VERY SOON!!! Also, I'm certain that there are many other lurkers ( and posters ) who are passengers in the same sinking ship that I'm currently riding in. Will somebody please throw me a lifeline?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:49
pot O gold__A ((Seeds could turn int Gold) IF) ID#170196:
Copyright © 1998 pot O gold__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have taken quite an interest in Y2K.

I have now studied everything I can get my hand on

and talked to hundreds of people from programmers,

computer board designers to the janitor.

I am now ( after buying more gold and silver coins,

food and the rest of things that might come in handy. )

There are others that I have talked to and that is farmers of

all kinds, seed and fertilizer distributors and was supprised

to find all this years hybred seeds were pretty well sold out

and those purchased this year has a 50/50 chance of bringing

in a crop next year.

Therefore I have found a private farmer with nonhybred seeds

and intend on stocking up just in case.

My reasoning is what if the seeds can't be germinated for

a couple of years by the mfg. due to lack of suppliers and electric.

Seeds than will be worth their weight in Gold.

I am not even taking into the equasion of weather

and inflation or something else that might upset the apple cart.

I know HN is saying this on his web. I didn't think too

much about it, Until I thought about it, after learning it could happen.

Eating is a way of life with me and I can't live without my food. Give me seeds and some ground and I will eat.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:49
Tantalus Rex (@Dutchman 19:56) ID#295111:
Yep. That's how I see it. I just added more to my gold stocks yesterday, bought more Homestake.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:45
Tantalus Rex (@BG_A) ID#295111:
Any XAU Gold Stock is a good bet to rise when the POG rises. But there are other out there, AngloGold, Franco-Nevada

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:45
chas (JTF, Gollum et al) ID#147201:
After discussions with arbitrage brokers re gold, it appears that LBMA delivery is good against Comex, but Comex delivery against LBMA is not all good. LBMA apparently works on London Good Delivery- 400+/- oz 999.95 fine, but Comex can have stuff as low as 990. Liquidity would really be enhaced if Comex would get everything to London Good Delivery standards. Evidently Comex takes in a lot of trash. Any questions?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:43
2BR02B? (@Skip) ID#266105:

...I can't get no...I can't get no...I can't get no...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:39
Lurker 777 (uglier) ID#317247:
Janet Reno

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:39
Tantalus Rex (XAU TODAY) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ABX-Barrick Gold-CLOSED AT $15.3125 -0.6875 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.84
ASL-Ashanti Gold-CLOSED AT $6.8125 -0.3125 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.11
BMG-Battle Mountain-CLOSED AT $4.6875 -0.1250 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.09
CDE-Coeur D'Alene-CLOSED AT $5.3750 -0.0625 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.00
FCX-Freeport Mc-CLOSED AT $12.3125 -0.5000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.29
GGO-Getchell Gold-CLOSED AT $10.8750 -0.3750 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.04
HL-Hecla Mining-CLOSED AT $4.4375 0.0000 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) 0.00
HM-Homestake Gold-CLOSED AT $10.3125 -0.1875 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.13
NEM-Newmont Mining-CLOSED AT $16.0000 -0.8750 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.45
PDG-PlacerDome Gold-CLOSED AT $9.8125 -0.0625 XAU CONTRIBUTION ( Est. ) -0.05

XAU CLOSED AT 57.68 -1.93

ABX and PDG have been taking down the XAU more than anybody else the past couple of days. I think this is a trend. It might be wise to swap ABX and PDG with other Gold Stocks.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:39
kapex (IDT: If it goes beyond wave a, at the 8750 area, then it could go to 1.618 x wave a ) ID#218254:
or to the 9015 area which is not far above a .618 retracement of the whole 1057 point decline, or the 8960 to 9000 area. The fibonacci relationship of those numbers is spooky. This definetly looks like a bear market has started.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:29
Skip (...and the blood keeps spurting!) ID#287129:
How much more bleeding to we have to endure before these f**king PM's finally bottom out and start rising? If they don't turn around soon, I'll be ruined financially for life.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:28
Lurker 777 (ugly) ID#317247:
Japan Nikkei 225 14449.10 -416.93 -2.80%

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:28
Gollum (@JTF) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You ask if the LBMA might have been involved in any intrigues in the past. Well, to answer that question requires us to go back a few years. To a time when, just as now, the cold war did not exist. The LBMA was not known as such then. At least they did not openly bandy their name about. But given that they have been around since the US was an infant, you can be sure their hand was in the events described at:

With the ending of the cold war, we can surmise that many of these people, or the sons and grandsons are back to business as usual. As the writers say:

As we have already hinted, we consider that these matters are not solely of historical interest. The repertoire of central bank intrigue, speculative bubbles, defaults, devaluations, bank rate manipulations, deflations and inflations constitute the essential arsenal being used by British economic warfare planners today.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:26
IDT (Kapex) ID#228128:
How high in terms of Dow or SnP do you expect the 5 wave correction to go and over what time frame. I know thats not asking much but I always say ask and ye may receive.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:24
kapex (Bill2J: Elliot wave analysis was on the Stock Market, not the XAU.) ID#218254:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:21
kapex (Newmont Mining is earning money now, with gold at this price, with a P-E) ID#218254:
lower than the stock market. Isn't it great to be able to buy at these prices?..... Amazing, just amazing! ..... Don't get too negative guys.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:19
Mole (Friedman/Mises: Business Cycles) ID#34883:
Copyright © 1998 Mole/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Milton Friedman, interviewed in Barron's ( August 24, 1998 ) , was asked:

Q: You were acquainted with the Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek and
also are familiar with the work of Ludwig von Mises and his American
disciple, Murray Rothbard. When you were talking about bad investments,
you were alluding to Austrian business-cycle theory. There is a certain
concept that has pretty much gone into our parlance and understanding,
which fits in with what you said about what happened in Asia. There can be
times and conditions in which the stage can be set for malinvestment that
leads to recession.

Friedman Responds:

A: That is a very general statement that has very little content. I think the
Austrian business-cycle theory has done the world a great deal of harm. If
you go back to the 1930s, which is a key point, here you had the Austrians
sitting in London, Hayek and Lionel Robbins, and saying you just have to
let the bottom drop out of the world. You've just got to let it cure itself.
You can't do anything about it. You will only make it worse. You have
Rothbard saying it was a great mistake not to let the whole banking system
collapse. I think by encouraging that kind of do-nothing policy both in
Britain and the United States, they did harm.

He continues on to say I don't think there are business cycles.

* * * *

First, this response from Jeff Scott
Wells Fargo, San Francisco

Dear Editor:

Milton Friedman, in his interview with Gene Epstein ( August 24, 1998 )
presents a caricature of the Austrian theory ( and policy ) of the business
cycle, namely that Austrians are pleased to let the bottom fall out of the
market when constructive corrective action is a plausible course.

In contrast to the Monetarist School, the Austrian School understands that
economic upturns can be extended by the manipulation of credit and
confidence. Central banks and Treasury departments create misleading
signposts in the economy that channel capital into otherwise untenable

Sharp downturns are a natural response to such systemwide
malinvestments. Policymakers and central bankers best deal with
recessions of this type--the bust of a phony investment boom--by letting
prices go where they must. And if those levels are lower and lower than
anybody in business and government can imagine, so be it.

Why should the appropriate economic policy be stalled by the pretense of
imagination, or even worse, by a new inflationist policy?

Austrians emphasize the importance of allowing price discovery to fulfill its
function and work toward restoring confidence. Ultimately, there are no
artificial means of restoring confidence; they are all nativist boosterism in
one form or another.

The lessons of current day Japan, suffering gross maladaptation, make this
point rather clear. The unwillingness of their policymakers to allow prices to
take their course has prolonged the misery for everyone.


Jeff Scott

* * *


[the above url contains both the above article and a more in depth response from a Misesean perspective.]

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:18
Bill2j (@Kapex) ID#259400:
For us non Elliott Wavers what does that mean in terms of the price of the XAU and time frames? As a gold investor I follow numbers. Thanks.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:13
Leland (Speed, Where Are You Tonight? Let Me Post the CRB Report for You) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:12
BG__A (RE;Dutchman ) ID#261304:

How can i find which gold stocks might be the most reliable when gold gets it act together?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:12
Mike Sheller (oris) ID#347447:
backing the ruble with Vodka will at least make the curreency liquid. No?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:12
Goldteck (Canada,the best country,if not for sure one of the best,) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 26, 1998

Canada sets conditions for Quebec secession talks

 OTTAWA, Aug 26 ( Reuters ) - Quebec separatists might find themselves with only a fraction of their huge province if they decide to secede from Canada, the federal government has warned in the latest volley in its long-running verbal battle.

  The government's point man on keeping Canada united, Stephane Dion, sent a tightly reasoned letter to separatist Quebec Premier Lucien Bouchard late on Tuesday, laying out tough conditions for negotiations after an independence vote.

  The time for stratagems and 'winning' tricks is over, wrote Dion, a former university professor who is now intergovernmental affairs minister.

  Both the federalists and separatists have been furiously trying to spin the public's interpretation of last Thursday's pivotal Supreme Court decision, which said Quebec may not leave unilaterally but that Canada must negotiate if a clear majority votes on a clear question.

  Dion said any negotiations would raise the issue of the boundaries of Quebec, particularly those of the vast northern lands occupied primarily by Canadian natives.

  Nobody seriously suggests that our national existence, seamless in so many aspects, could be effortlessly separated along what are not the provincial boundaries of Quebec, Dion quoted from the court decision.

  One of the strategies of the federal government -- after the separatists' 1995 campaign which tried to show everything would be possible after a vote for independence -- has been to show the risks and uncertainties of they vote to leave Canada.

  It has warned before of the possibility of Quebec being divisible if Canada is, but was now able to draw on the Supreme Court for authority. Premier Bouchard reiterated, in a news conference on Friday, his position that Quebec is indivisible.

  Dion derided Bouchard's assertion that a clear majority means one vote more than 50 percent. He said the court used clear majority13 times and also spoke of a strong majority, substantial consensusand enhanced majority.

  In Quebec City, Quebec Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Jacques Brassard said a simple majority would be enough to allow the French-speaking province to separate.

  The three political parties in Quebec have an official common position that says that Quebecers can shape their destiny on the basis of the democratic rule of 50 percent plus one, he told reporters.

  Dion said Ottawa would never sit down to negotiations if the referendum asked something as vague as whether citizens of the mainly francophone province wanted sovereignty with an offer of political and economic partnershipwith Canada.

  That is the essence of the question voted on in October 1995, when the separatists won more than 49 percent of the vote.

  A clear question is an essential condition of a valid referendum in democracy, he said.

  The National Assembly ( Quebec's legislature ) is of course free to ask Quebeckers any questions it wants. But you will appreciate that the federal government, among others, cannot surrender its responsibility to evaluate the clarity of a question which would result in the break-up of a country.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:12
Nick@C (G'day all) ID#386245:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aussie $ gold is now scratching the $500/oz level. Anyone in Oz who has been buying physical over the past year is UP 10-20% on their purchases. Gold is doing its job, maintaining a store of value in troubled times.

Aussie gold shares must be even better value. Most miners are locked in at prices above $500/oz. I would not be surprised if the current selling is due to Aussie producers taking advantage of these good ( A$ ) prices. We are nearing the end of a long drawn-out slow-motion panic selloff. A year from now you will be astounded at the current ( today's ) prices and will kick yourself for not having had bigger huevos/cojones. All MVHO. N.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:10
notnick (Canadian Dollar) ID#31270:
Since I get paid in Canadian dollars and all my expenses are in US dollars I am very interested in any best estimates of how low it might go.

Any guesses out there?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 20:04
chas (Bufford re CAU) ID#147201:
I have tried several times to contact Richard Devoto at Cau- no result. It would be interesting because Devoto is a rare name. Sorry, wish I could report, Charlie DeVoto

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:56
Gold and mining shares are available at bargain basement prices. Slightly lower prices on both in the short-term, but by October we will all be chanting: Why didn't I buy more? The washout we have been awaiting is on us. The gold bull is just over the horizon and he is mad as heck. Load up now or forever hold your peace!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:56
BUFFORD (Aragorn III ****any good new on CAU) ID#253246:

This PM devastation is depressing, lately any word from your pal
devoto in golden or is time to drown one self in the liquid from golden

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:54
kapex (Elliot Wave: We just completed the a-b-c of wave -b- of (B) yesterday) ID#218254:
and we are heading down for wave -c- of ( B ) . Then we can expect a 5 wave rally up to a ( C ) to complete the ABC wave ( 2 ) correction of the 1st wave decline.
You know what that means, don't you...........Wave 3 will begin and it won't be very pretty. At the least it should decline at a minimum of 1.618 x wave 1 or 1710 points from the top of wave ( 2 ) or 2.618 or 2767 points.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:48
Mtn Bear (SE) (Replies due and comments:) ID#347267:
Copyright © 1998 Mtn Bear (SE)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@JTF: Sorry, intermittant times at this infernal machine. Have no ready access to the '25-'29 commodity regime, and it was before my time ( barely ) . Others may have the knowledge. You probably are correct.
I personally do not believe in the history repeats exactly, dates, etc.; but do believe one must learn or be doomed. AG of course has waited a year or more too long to tighten, and now may be forced into a loosening by the market crashing. I have lost all faith in AG's will to do what is necessary unless forced and believe he has been bought and paid for by the Clintons or their masters....

M. Link: IMHO the derivatives thing will be what is blamed by market historians for the coming market collapse of 1998-1999.

Flash G.: Upon what do you base your conviction of a rally tomorrow? I hope you are correct, as I WANT a big ( 120-150 Dow points ) up day so that I may complete my planned purchases of RYURX and BEARX. I have been frustrated this week. Since I WANT this to happen you can bet that it probably will not.

Check with you once more around 2300 est; other duties call.

Best regards; Mtn Bear

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:44
Jed (A Little Something...) ID#69149:
Copyright © 1998 Jed/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thought I would pass this along:

The Psalm of William Jefferson Clinton
after being exposed by Kenneth Starr -

Have mercy upon me, O Polls, according to thy ignorance: according
unto the multitude of thy investments in the stock market blot out my
lapse of judgment.

Wash me thoroughly from my inappropriate behavior, and cleanse me
from my private problems. For I acknowledge my irrelevant course of
action: and my possible impeachment is ever before me.

Against Hillary and Chelsey only, have I misled, and done this
withholding of information: that I might be justified when thou
thinketh, and be clear when thou judgest me in the next CNN poll.

Behold, my circumstances caused my problems; and it is the fault of
Ken Starr who conceived this plot against me.

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden
part I will show my ability to twist the English language.

Purge me with ignorant endorsements, and I shall be clean: wash this
investigation from me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Make me to hear joy and gladness; by putting an end to this
seven-month public and wrongful investigation that I may rejoice.

Hide your face from the facts, and blot me not out of office.

Create for me a clean heart, O Polls; and renew a forgetful spirit
for me.

Cast me not away from the Presidency; and take not political power
from me.

Restore unto me the joy of my power; and uphold me with Hollywood and

homosexual backings.

Then will I teach transgressors my ways; and other adulterers shall
be converted unto my side.

Deliver me from Ken Starr, O Poll, thou god of my salvation: and my
tongue shall sing aloud of thy passivity.

O Nightly news, let me open my lips with contradiction; and my mouth
shall shew forth my praise.

For thou desirest not morality; else would I give it: thou delightest

not in ethics.

The sacrifices of the American public are a Bull stock market: a
defective and yet perjured apologetic heart for getting caught, O Poll,
thou wilt not despise.

Do me good in my good pleasure unto Washington: build thou the walls
of protection for my private life.

Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifice of morality and truth
as a burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer
honesty upon the altar of ignorance.

- author unknown, but worth a round of applause!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:29
Aragorn III (JTF...tack your diploma to the wall and move on to the next degree!) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You're there. As for historical knowledge of scandals and whatnot...perhaps only the would be bad for business, you know?

During that history you should also recall that gold really was used as money, so indeed, you had an institution not much different from banks as we know them today. When the gold standard was abandoned, that was a deal all about governments. Individuals are what make the world go 'round...and old habits die hard--such as using gold as money...expecting payment in gold, etc. No one said the LBMA had to close shop because world governments wanted to start writing bad checks to whomever would accept them.

The million dollar question is, is the LBMA in over their heads through some shenanegans through lending the same gold to many people ( via paper title ) with lessening likelihood of unwinding the situation without jeopardizing the fiat system that the big boys have tried so hard to develop over the years? Paper just can't hold a candle to gold. Or should I say gold just might hold a candle to the paper. Perceptions are important where paper is concerned, and this gold world is poised to become over-visible over-fast.

got gold?

With that...I'm gone, to savor every morsel of my dinner, and to think that things are so very nearly as they should be....

got gold!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:28
JTF (Physicist trading cards?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer: I doubt my visage would be anywhere as interesting as that of a professional ball player. We are not a particularly flamboyant group, with the exception of one in the 2' by 4' picture I have behind my desk.

Underneath the photo, it says:

' Peace cannot be kept by force.

It can only be achieved by understanding.'


With that I head for home -- dinner is waiting. G'Evening all!

Well there is another colorful one and just as brilliant -- Nicolai Tesla -- but I don't know if he was considered a Physicist or an Engineer. Experimental physicists have something in common with the likes of him.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:27
Squirrel (Miniature Eagle coin - approx. size of 10-grain Gold coin proposed) ID#280214:
by Chas, Aurator, Tolerant1 & friends.
This time the file is 8KB in size for a much faster load time.
The coin is a one centimeter base metal miniature
of an Eisenhower Dollar recently purchased in a novelty store.
Note the 1 cm.ruler scale at the bottom of the photo.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:26
chas (Hey Y'all) ID#147201:
How about this!? $10,000 per head for every American killed in embassy bombings by ben laben ( or who ever ) . Let's watch Mady alldike and Willy Cohen to see what they say. I wish Scott Ridder was head of security. He's the only one putting the UN and the US State Dept on the barrel. Like always, no guts- no results. I guess Clinton is going to Russia and kiss ass.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:20
Leland (Text Update Site For Hurricane Bonnie) ID#31876:
Rainfall totals of 10 to 20 inches...locally even higher...are
possible near the path of Bonnie...posing a very serious flood

Isolated tornados are possible tonight over eastern North

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:18
JTF (Tidal surge) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Duke: Take care -- hope you are inland sufficiently that you are not exposed to the surf or tidal surge. If you see the eye that means you got it head on. I saw the effect of Class III hurricane Hugo on Charleston, and what the main force of the hurricane did to a small fishing town north of Charleston ( forgot name ) . Nothing left. Huge shrimp boats scattered everywhere. Folly beach lost about 1/2 of the houses closest to the beach -- many were total losses. One 70 foot yacht vanished into the Aether -- occupants and all.

Another item I will never forget is the thousands of tornados that must have come with the storm -- because anything taller than about 50 feet was snapped off like it was a match stick. In a neighborhood shopping center, 6 1 1/2 foot-wide I beams for a sign were twisted all the way down to the ground -- like a pretzel. And -- after the storm it seemed like all the greenery of Charleston had been ripped off, and deposited in the streets during cleanup. Most side roads were effectively one way, due to the 20 foot piles of brush.

Hope the eye misses you, and your dont get 135 mph plus.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:14
SDRer__A (JTF--Regulation, LBMA) ID#290172:
( 1 ) LBMA regulation-Bank of England did a turnover survey in May of 1996. Their timing was interesting!. The turnover statistics were published as a one-off, with comparative data for May 1994 and May 1991. If I remember rightly, gold had held steady over the period, silver had grown.

( 2 ) JTF-are your photos and c.v. ready? Came across information this week about the hot new collectible: PHYSICISTS TRADING CARDS. I kid you not. Little sideline money maker ( specie only right! )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:13
truenorth__A (James/re:Soros ) ID#189268:
I agree about the damage that Soros and his ilk have caused on innocent hard-working people. I remember back in October when the markets were tanking Hnery Kissinger mentioned that a review of Global currency trading should be undertaken. When you consider what the consequenses have been over the last year I believe this should happen but probably won't because the powers are here in North America and Europe while the impoverished, who had been making gains to improve their standard of living get slammed down. What good do they do other than line their own pockets?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:12

Aragorn III ( JTF...more on LBMA )

For a dissection of the LBMA you might review numerous reports on the
elusive LBMA which trades about 30 MILLION ounces of GOLD DAILY.

It's necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before posting it to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:11
BG__A (Night session) ID#246441:

Just traded at 285.50...this is gettin painful folks....somebody slap me !!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:10
robnoel__A (Mr.Mick carefull here (TEFRA) Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibilty Act passed by Congress has ) ID#410198:
effected the privacy of investors and collectors,and also on the manner in which they can buy and sell coins,this provision added a new section to the IRS code ( Section 6045 ) reporting requirments on bullion vs numismatics....hence the $10,000.00 reporting on bullion

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:08
Duke__A (Forgot Something Important) ID#267255:
and BTW, if ya got gold, HOLD it; if ya don't have it, GET IT

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:01
Flash Gordon__A (Dow jones) ID#284311:

I am absolutely convinced that the dow is going to soar tomorrow. Up, up and away.
Thank you kindly.
d:o )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 19:00
Silverbaron (robnoel) ID#273432:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I looked at the Moneychanger seems to be
that they are playing something of a Bill Clinton
act - in the way they state that there is no basis
in law or regulation, etc. etc.

It may be true that there are no CURRENT laws or
regulations ( as they so state ) with respect to
pre-1933 gold coins. I have not researched this,
and am not a lawyer or bureaucrat who knows all
the legalese.

However - I think ( as noted in a previous post ) it is very misleading to state that that there is NO
basis whatever for the differentiation of pre-1933 gold coins as coins of recognized special value to collectors. This is obviously UNTRUE - and was the written policy of the Treasury Department for many years.

I take it as a matter of personal judgement whether to take the risk that modern bullion coins are not different from pre-1933 coins with respect to potential US confiscation. Personally, I only
buy the old stuff.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:54
Mr. Mick (Sorry Robnoel, you won't stop the creep of Federalism...........) ID#345321:
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. ..Thomas Jefferson

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:50
Duke__A (Silverbaron, ElDorado,Chas,tolerant1,sharefin, and Squirrel) ID#267255:
Storm up-date ( quickly ) . She came ashore SW of us and is slow moving. Our power is back briefly, so if I go in mid-stream, you'll know why. Several trees down, a lot of rain and storm surge now beginning to build. Lost roof of hospital down south, various other similar damage. Storm not expected to vacate here until late tomorrow. This will bring much more water damage, and wind damage than normally expected. Even though we are in the NE quad, the high winds ( 100+ ) haven't hit us yet. We have had a constant 60 all day with bands up to probably 90 for short periods, so it hasn't yet been what it probably will be.

As night approaches, I know it doesn't in and of itself make things worse, but somehow it sure seems so. Got to go for now. Will post again later if possible.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:50
JTF (LBMA post) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aragorn: Thanks for your post -- will read it several times. Anyone who understands anything about the mysterious LBMA is worth listening to.

You touched a point that also occurred to me. And -- that is that the LBMA and the other bullion houses have probably played a fairly loose game with all the physical gold to get business. Also, imagine the feeding frenzy when the CB's announce they need brokers for hundreds of tonnes of gold they want to 'secretly' sell or loan. Further, the regulation of the LBMA seems to be self - generated. No outside inspectors. Little real regulation. So -- what happens one day when all that physical gold that everyone thought they had is not where they thought it was? Physical gold liquidity suddenly dries up and we have a sudden surge in the price of gold. We will probably have little warning of this since the 1000 + tonnes per day is probably not only physical gold -- but the volume of all gold transactions. Would be interesting to know how much physical gold the LBMA actually has -- and compare it to the trading volume. But -- we will never get that kind of information.

I think the bottom line is that since the LBMA seems to have little or no regulation from outside, it is at risk for a liquidity crisis such as what happened in the 70's when the CB's decided to stop selling gold. All we have to follow is COMEX stocks, in the hope that they will give us a clue to what is really happening behind the scenes in 'virtually unregulated' international metals markets.

What really amazes me, given what we know about the lack of regulation of the LBMA, is how it could have existed for over 200 years. Surely you would think that rules have developed over this time. But no -- COMEX seems to be more regulated than the LBMA. Of course, if the LBMA does get into trouble, it can just blame the bullion vendors as failing to come up with the claimed precious metal -- as it is just a clearing house. Now -- if shady practices are unearthed where gold is not there when the LBMA says it is, that is a different matter. In that case, perhaps all the gold trading just moves to Istanbul for a time.

By the way, do you know if the LBMA has been involved in scandals in the past, during its 200 plus year history? Might be illuminating.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:48
robnoel__A (Mr.Mick...this is Washingtons dirty little secret....EO's Admin orders PDD's etc. are placed in the ) ID#410198:
Federal Registra.....with a date certain 30-60 or 90 days....if no comment or challenge is made it becomes law.....on average there are 70,000 pieces of papers to go through every month guess would need a staff of 20 to keep track of it all the recent EO Clinton signed on Federalism...was pulled back because we found out about it and caused a stink

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:40
Mr. Mick (Robnoel, I think you are right, it is bunk for the most part.........) ID#345321:
my dealer just mentioned the Tefra laws of 1986, which further defined seminumismatics, etc. I don't have a copy of that law, but maybe you do or know someone who does. Please post it if you find it.........

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:35
Suspicious (In Fact / BEARX is up) ID#287312:
12.6% since July 16th.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:33
ChasAbar__A (A. Riddle) ID#287358:
Fox-Man's 17:49 post is a good one. Does anyone have an answer?
Ted Butler talks about it. Seems as if no one has a plausible answer.

Also, does anyone have a comment about the small change in silver
open positions, given the drop-off in price recently? So many shorts
just won't cover. Who knows what I don't know about supply and
demand for silver? Today's price makes no sense to me. The huge
short position makes no sense. Any ideas? Thanks

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:30
Suspicious (JohnB / About 5 years early ) ID#287312:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:29
SDRer__A (Prometheus, Welcome Home!) ID#290172:
You were missed. {:- )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:29
Suspicious (BEARX up 3.05% today) ID#287312:
: )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:27
robnoel__A (Silverbaron...this all started with the posting of a web page called moneychanges and why you should) ID#410198:
not buy numismatics and in my opinion it was all bunk check it out and you tell me .......

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:19
John B__A (All) ID#77134:
Is it too late to sell gold equity stocks?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:18
Mr. Mick (Silverbaron, Thanks very very much..................) ID#345321:
this question has dogged me for some time now................

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:15
SteveIS__A (Retest Friday low before rally) ID#280339:
Copyright © 1998 SteveIS__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
FOUR times the market has tried to breech 8350 on the dow. The last time was Friday. Bears are selling this market like crazy. Vix is at very high

levels even though the market has basically been in a tight trading range for almost 4 weeks. Commercials have a multi year high number of net long S&P contracts. After Fridays scare I'm sure they have an even larger number of long contracts.

The bond market is making record highs. The dollar is strong. The problem in Russia makes the US more attractive than Europe for the moment.

PM's are still punishing investors. Goldman Sachs is going public in November. Bill Clinton will do anything to save his diseased rear end.

This stock market looks like a setup to punish the shorts. The puts and non commercial S&P shorts are providing an oxegen rich mixture for a scary rally. It won't be over for the stock market until the PM's can rally. That will be a signal that the smart money is ready for the market to fall.

Be careful fellow goldbugs. Sentime

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:13
Silverbaron (robnoel) ID#288295:

My pooint in offering the previous Treasury Regulation is not to suggest that this is current regulation or law ( which it is not ) , but instead to counter the argument made by some people that there had never been any distinction for pre-1933 gold coins.

I think the document proves that there has in fact been such a distinction.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:08
Aragorn III (JTF...sorry to hear your lady has taken you to the woodshed.) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tell her your PM losses are the tuition for an education that would not otherwise be attained without this vested interest of yours. What you've no-doubt learned over the past few years will serve you well for the rest of your days...may they be many, indeed!

We are getting there, my friend! Let's walk through some of your latest post. Yours will be indicated like this...[JTF text inside brackets].

[certainly some of what the LBMA does is to act as a clearing house for
physical gold -- e-gold -- as you put it. Probably some sort of 'scrip'
is used for each ounce of gold in the transactions, so that the unweildy
gold does not need to be moved around.]

That's it, you got it! Transfer of ownership without alteration of metal geography.

[My problem is the LBMA is this. They claim that well over 1000 tonnes of
gold is traded on the LBMA every day! Well, in two days that would be
the entire World's production of gold.
So something is amiss --- the LBMA cannot possibly be exchanging this
much e-gold.]

Sure they can, JTF! When I mentioned e-gold, I wanted you to think in terms of monetary gold. The same gold may change ownership many times in the balance of trade or other transactions. It's all about mass and ...key word...VELOCITY.

[I'll bet that the LBMA is doing everything that COMEX is doing with gold speculation -- derivatives, gold carries, forwards, whatever. As well as the basic e-gold] ( monetary use! ) [that the Rothschilds and their ilk might want. And, I doubt all the CB gold sales and gold loans are going through COMEX -- more likely the more anonymous international bullion houses.]

I think it would be very near to the mark to say that precisely NONE of the CB gold operations ( sales, purchases, and lending ) are facilitated
through COMEX...COMEY don't play that game. ( sorry for the bad jest )

[Any idea how much gold and gold derivatives COMEX is trading daily? Does
it come close to 1000+ tonnes per day ( on paper, at least ) ? Is it
increasing or decreasing?]

Surely one of our reliable posters could boil the numbers down for either total outstanding Futures Contracts, or daily business in new Futures Contracts. Because Options come and go, often expiring worthless, they are a different kind of beast and I'm not sure they factor into the numbers you are tracking down. I simply have a difficult time seeing where COMEX figures shed ANY light on the global gold market. COMEX is an easy nut to crack. What you see is what you get. Wanna lock in a gold price either for buy or sell? Phone COMEX. Wanna gamble on the future price of gold for speculative cash profits? Phone COMEX. End of story.

Wanna trade metal immediately at spot price, or negotiate the best immediate deal? Hmmmmmmmmmm....who ya gonna call? NOT COMEX--they broker FUTURE prices. See? Hmmmmmmmmm....who ARE ya gonna call? Isn't there anyone out there boasting about how liquid their trading market is for immediate movement of gold?

[There must be a reason why LBMA is boasting about the 1000 tonnes plus of gold traded daily. Perhaps they have an angle with the international speculators COMEX does not have.]

You answered that one!!!! The members of LBMA all have some fluctuating amount of gold registered to their personal ownership yet in LBMA safe-storage. Like with the e-gold operation, or more familiar to most people, like a checking account, certificates of transfer/title/ownership/whatever are used to facilitate various high-stakes financial operations. Wouldn't it make sense to you to arrange payment in gold when floating international paper often gets soggy and sinks or burns despite its wetness? LBMA facilitates these arrangements. The BIS does this also, but their membership is much more exclusive.

Like the historic accounts of runs on banks, there is perhaps some degree of growing concern among LBMA members that apart from the transfer of gold ownership operations, some of the other activities taking place under the roof of the LBMA ( such as risky lending or any conceivable derivitive operation ) has served to place the notion of ownership of the same gold into many minds. Those who signed into membership by bringing their gold to the table feel that perhaps their claim is somewhat jeopardized as a result. As a result, perhaps the volume of gold traded via the LBMA will drop as the members redeem their statements of account for physical possession of their gold. ( Similar to a run on the bank! ) What the gold holding members are then left with are truckloads of gold but no trustworthy or safe way to continue their gold transactions.

( ...pssssssst...hey buddy... )
got Euros?

but that's ANOTHER story! ;- )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:06
Silverbaron (robnoel @ pre-1934 gold coins) ID#288295:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

There has been some confusion about the historical
classification of pre-1934 gold coins ( as defined
by the Gold Reserve Act of 1933 as being gold
coins of recognizable numismatic value, which
were an exception to the requirements for
confiscation ) .

I happen to have a copy of the 1969 Treasury
revisions which concern the distinction of pre-
and post-1934 gold coins in this regard. The
Treasury regulation is as follows, as recorded in
the Federal Register:

Rules and Regulations
Title 31-Money and Finance: Treasury
Chapter I - Monetry Offices, Department of the
Part 54 - Gold Regulations
Imports of Gold Coin

Section 54.20 of the Gold Regulations is being
amended to permit the importation without a
license of gold coins made during 1934 or later.
Licenses for importation may be issued for coins
minted before 1960 which can be established to the
satisfaction of the Director, Office of Domestic
Gold and Silver Operations, to be of recognized
special value to collectors of rare and unusual
coin and to have been originally issued to
circulate as coinage within the country of issue.
Licenses for importation may be issued for gold
coins made during or subsequent to 1960 only in
cases where the particular coin was licensed for
importation prior to April 30, 1969. Because the
amendments relieve an existing restriction and in
the case of coins made after 1933 make no change
in present Regulations and licensing policies, it
is found that notice and public procedure thereon
are unnecessary.

#54.20 Rare Coins

( a ) Gold coin of recognized special value to
collectors of rare and unusual coin may be
acquired, held, and transported with the United
States without the necessity of holding a license
therefor. Such coin may be imported, however,
only as permitted by this section or # 54.28 to
54.30, 54.34, or provisions of 54.25.

( b ) Gold coin made prior to 1934 is considered to
be of recognized special value to collectors of
rare and unusual coins.

( c ) Gold coin made during or subsequent to 1934
is presumed not to be of recognized special value
to collectors of rare and unusual coin.

( d ) Gold coin made prior to 1934, may be imported
without the necessity of obtaining a license

( e ) Gold coin made during or subsequent to 1934
may be imported only pursuant to a specific or
general license issued by the Director, Office of
Domestic Gold and Silver Operations. Licenses
under this paragraph may be issued only for gold
coin made prior to 1960, which can be established
to the satisfaction of the Director to be of
recognized special value to collectors of rare and
unusual coin and to have been originally issued
for circulation within the country of issue.
Licenses may be issued for gold coin made during
or subsequent to 1960 in cases where the
particular coin was licensed for importation prior
to April 30, 1969. Appliciation for a specific
license under this paragraph shall be executed on
Form TG-31 and filed in duplicate with the

Federal Register Doc 69-4994 Filed April 25, 1969

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:05
Prometheus (@Hey) ID#222235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I travel around a little and what happens? All sorts of interesting news, and I can't get to the internet! Wish I could have been here lurking more often, especially to see what Donald has dug up. Sorry to say, his analysis of markets and currencies is indeed holding up all these months. Sometimes you just hate to be right.

Well, just my greetings to you all and best wishes. Don't forget to do something to prepare for Y2K today! A little a day, like getting ready the kids' college funds. The only way to go. Sorry, often away from my machine lately. Hope to normalize soon.

Notes for today, would be headlines except so much other news.

My goodness. Saw a Donald report recently that Mexico's interest rates soared 20%. The Americas are the next hot spot. Currencies sliding, insurgencies cropping up in every country. Shouldn't this be headine news?

Latin and South American Bourses in severe bear market, threatening to freefall. Compared to their 52 week highs:

Brazil is down 48%; Chile down 38%, Mexico down 40%, Peru down 63%; Venequela down 70%.

These numbers are from Yahoo, and my understanding is that these are quoted in the local currency, without regard to any foreign exchange. So if you are in these markets but not in these countries, these losses are compounded by currency losses.

In the US, today's new 52 week lows were 581; new highs only 33. The BEAR Market is very much alive and actually expanding its base since my last post, a couple of weeks back.

Hang onto your hats, guys.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:04
themissinglink (CitiScrewed?) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 themissinglink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
from Bloomberg:
U.S. banks, including BankAmerica Corp., Chase Manhattan Corp. and Citicorp, were owed about $6.8 billion in loans, derivatives, foreign exchange and other securities by Russian companies and the government as of March 31, according to a division of the Federal Reserve.

Chase, the largest bank in the U.S., had $500 million in Russia exposure, a spokesman said. BankAmerica had $412 million, according to a recent Securities and Exchange Commission filing. Bankers Trust had about $1 billion, including $500 million from business with major U.S. hedge funds, according to David Berry,an analyst at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 18:01
Mr. Mick (Moze, Robnoel.......if my memory serves me correctly, .............) ID#345321:
EOs do become law if not challenged. And certainly #6260 has been on the books for a long time....FWIW.......

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:49
FOX-MAN__A (jims; Yep...I understand your frustration. I'm just the same, if not more...) ID#288186:
Copyright © 1998 FOX-MAN__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I don't understand why these low Comex levels aren't causing lease
rates to rise. Maybe it's true about vast amounts of Silver at LBMA
or some other Exchange. But it seems to me that these traders that
are shorting Silver, are in the same position as us. They just don't
know for sure how much Silver is available to the open market. Do they
have inside information that people like D.A. ( or some other professional
traders on this site ) can't get?

I guess I'm stubborn, but I'm still going to play this Silver market awhile longer. I'm going to continue watching Comex Totals ( for what it's
worth ) and keep my fingers crossed that we won't go much lower. When we
see a continued drawdown in stocks plus rising lease rates, then maybe
these PM's will turn around. ( probably in the blink of an eye )
Thanks, Foxman

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:48
Jack (About Aurizon (sorry)) ID#252127:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:46
Jack (About Aurizon (sorry)) ID#252127:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:41
Jack (Aurizon Mines) ID#252127:

Aurizon Closes $7 Million Convertible Debenture
Financing, Awarded $2 million Government Assistance and
negotiates a $1 million Private Placement.
Looks like they'll be going into Casa Beradi next month.
They believe the weak canadain dollar will increase CF
by about $150,000 per month. Also Yahoo is slipping on
its news releases of canadian compsanies. This from CanadaNewsWire 8/25

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:37
SDRer__A (Lion's Cure for Fiat Fatigue...) ID#290172:

Coming soon to countries near you. Sign up! Don't let Flaccid fiats
curtail a healthy, robust economic life.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:35
JTF (Which Way the Markets?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
MTN Bear: Just how much do interest rates have to go down to stimulate the markets? Good question -- I wonder if AG would lower rates now, or wait for the US dollar to weaken all by itself. I think he is playing with fire if he does not lower rates fairly soon, as the US market/economy balancing act is getting dicier and dicier. The US dollar is not going to come down all by itself, but we don't want it to come down to quickly, either.

I wonder -- didn't we have a commodity price collapse in the 20's, some years before the 1929 crash? Around 1925? Perhaps it is time to review that scenario again to get some insight into gold, and the markets. Certainly the US economy and markets were stimulated by dropping prices then also. Don't recall exactly what happened to the markets -- did they go down, and then skyrocket to oblivion? At that time, however, we did not have presidential problems such as the current ones.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:31
Tortfeasor (Drudge Report-Clinton & his trusty cigar) ID#37463:
While driving to lunch today the Drudge Report was being alluded to by Rush Limbaugh and the unfair treatment which his cigar received at the hands of Monica. Its fair to say main stream media will be handling the issue discretely within a couple of days. WJC better just stay on vacation, keep Hillary away from the TV set and radio and hang out with Walter Cronkite.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:31
James (Another typical day@the stock mkt) ID#252150:
My one short up, everything else down. Off to the golf course to vent my frustration on the little white ball.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:29
jims (Thanks Foxman on the COMEX stocks but..) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
any information on the London Stocks, the Swiss stocks, the German stocks, the Luxemberg stocks, the Russian stocks, the Arab stocks.

My conclusion is that they all must be substantial or the shorts at COMEX are plain ass stupid. They must figure the silver is somewhere . . .they probably know it is. What are we talking about 6,000 contract of eligible silver, what are we talking about $150 million of eligible reserves. Nobody seems interested in the challenge? WHY?.

Come IN SAM A give us the lease rate speech. Just copy it in from yesterday.

Compelling evidence ( word of the day ) on the charts says as of yet nobody cares what the eligible stocks are in NY. What are the eligible stocks of Platinum and Palladium in NY - ZERO?

I'm frustrated by this semming trashing of the obvious fundlemental. I have to believe that it not so obvious and that off shore stocks of silver are substantial.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:27
James (Truenorth@Druckenmiller/Soros may have lost 2 bil in russia. The unfortunate) ID#252150:
thing is that a large portion of the 2 bil he lost in russia probably came from their ill gotten gains in SEAsia which caused the further impoverishment of millions of people. Even worse is the fact that most of the 2 bil ended up in the hands of the mafia who are now ensconced on the Cote Azur in their multi-million $ villas.

Kind of a reverse Robin Hood--would'nt you say?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:24
Jack (Mozel; if your right and you are very adept;) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I would like to see an amendment to the Constitution, stating, that upon demand government must redeem PM certificates issued only by the US Treasury.

Such an amendment will take the politics of power out of Congress and allow for Statesmen to control that body and people to vote their desires immediately when they cash these certificates in.

I have no problem with paper certificates for PM's along the treasury issuing other paper money without usery attached and according to needs seen by competent treasury officials working in each of the former Federal Reserve Distric and being subject to treason if they abuse the money of the US.

While this is asking for alot, I think that it will be much better than the present system.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:19
Mtn Bear (SE) (Dow and market) ID#347267:
Copyright © 1998 Mtn Bear (SE)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dow is struggling to remain above the 200 day line; today is back below. Either some major event of a bullish nature or perceived as bullish ( Rate reduction? ) must happen rather quickly, or a sudden plunge through the 200 day moving average ( 233, 200, doesn't matter ) is in the offing. September is next week; early September is the beginning of time of maximum vulnerability per Peter Eliedes ( sp? ) and others. If down, I suspect further erosion in the gold mining stocks.
Peter's chart:


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:10
robnoel__A (Open-Loop ...No question they could do or take anything if that is there intention...from the period) ID#410198:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1929-1933 foriegners would not take FRN as payment for goods and service so the US had to pay in Gold Currency ie. $20.00 gold coins.....the bulk of gold now being sold in the US comes from Swiss and other governments vaults....if you want chapter and verse on all legislation pertaining to US Gold go get yourself a copy of COIN-WORLD ALMANAC also available in your local libary it has ever law and EO ever signed....I really do not have the time to type it all however I have put together an extensive list of EO's on my web page

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 17:03
Gianni Dioro__A (Servhard ) ID#384350:
I drove the Cabot Trail in may of '94. It is very beautiful. As to V. Hugo's daughter, there is the film, L'histoire d'Adèle H which is set in Halifax.

People have God-given rights, and they cannot be taken away by govt. Govt may oppress, but the rights remain even if they are not respected.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:57
Open-Loop (@mozel...Don't usually take sides but, I am with you on this one.(Sanders)) ID#176200:
Have at it! I gotta get some work done. Thanks O.L.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:55
PH in LA (Mozel: Clarification Requested.) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:44
mozel ( @Jack ) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A certificate is not the thing. A Certificate of Title for a motor vehicle is not the title to the motor vehicle.


Are you OK? Your prose seems to be suffering from more than its usual lack of lucidity. If I may ask; what, then, IS the difference between a Certificate of Title and the Title of a motor vehicle?

While I have your attention, would you mind also clarifying the following:? ...when Kings and Popes wanted knights to go on Crusades and knights needed gold for armor.

If the Certificate of Title is not the Title, surely the gold is not the armor, either. Did the knights need the gold to buy armor or are you really suggesting that they fashioned their armor from gold? Was that solid gold, or gold plated silver, or what?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:54
Lurker 777 (The Mountie or the Phillie) ID#320226:
Copyright © 1998 Lurker 777/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The Mountie costs $325 per coin and the Phillharmonic with Put option is $304.14. My break even point is $20.86 lower than the Mountie. The downside risk for the Mountie is $325 ( cost ) - $310 ( Guarantee ) = $15 or 4.6%. The Phillharmonic downside risk is $304.14 ( Cost w/ Put option ) - $289.24 ( Selling Price at $280 spot + 3.3% ) = $14.90 or 4.9%. The only real difference is the break even points.
The best time to buy the Mountie is when Spot Gold is around $307 oz. because you can still buy them for $325 per oz. Unfortuninitly the small gold investor has no choice but the Mountie if he wants to protect his ASSests. I would recommend the Mountie for investments under $15,000.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:51
themissinglink (Soros) ID#373403:
Lost $2 Billion? Wasn't he yelling that the IMF should give quickly and give freely to Russia last month? Now he is trying to line up investor confidence in large cap U.S. stocks? Very bearish sign. He obviously wants another shot to get out of the market with a final rally.

Sorry Georgie boy. The bear is here!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:51
Mtn Bear (SE) (XAU and some Miners:) ID#347267:
XAU closed at lows; Some of the mining stocks not too bad, it is just this interminable erosion that is so bad. Hope RJ is correct in his bottom.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:46
larryn__A (Interest rates decrease) ID#32078:
Copyright © 1998 larryn__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As I see it...
The major source of difficulty in the world economic situation is the strength of the dollar. This strength is the result of many economic forces, but it is a fact. The dollar is strong because it is regarded as safe and because it pays more than other currencies.

Therefore, the only solution that the Fed can do is to lower short term rates ( fed funds ) and the discount rate. Long bond rates are under 5.5 and the market is trying to tell them something, but no one is paying attention. IMHO this would have the effect of decreasing demand for dollars by investors and ease all currencies in the world now fighting with the dollar. Naturally, this would upset all holders of US debt, because the dollar would go down somewhat. Since CB's hold most of it, they would not like it; ergo it most likely won't happen.

However, if it is done, it would be a buying time for metals. I would expect the Dow to go up until the effect of a weaker dollar sets it.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:43
Gianni Dioro__A (Dow Daily Chart, Central Banks) ID#384350:
...appears to be in a contracting triangle formation. Contracting triangles tend to resume in the direction they were heading before the triangle, which in this case is down.

The next day or 2 may be rangebound 8400-8600. Watch out for a breakout lower.

@Jack, No problem, I'm learning it myself. A couple of years ago, I realized that if a country owned its central bank, then it would have no sovereign debt.

The userer ( the fed, BOE, BOJ, etc ) cons the masses ( thru the media which they own/control ) into believing that the govt by borrowing fiat currency from someone ( the fed ) who just prints up the stuff, is not just printing money. However, it is being printed, but with interest attached ( Usury ) . Lincoln & Kennedy were shot for issuing T-notes that circulated as currency.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:32
Servhard (Gianni Dioro__A .........) ID#287193:
I have relatives in Halifax. They drove along the all of the Cabot trail and recommend it for a Nova Scotia 'MUST SEE'.
I will read up on Victor Hugo's daughters. Thanks.

As for your 15:21 and Usury-- just another way of looking at it:
There is one Law for Jews and maybe Christians too, but not for the unbelievers.
They are not subject to the Laws of God! But!!!!!!!!
Some of Abraham's children are the super Experts in this field.
As for the markets: No surprise for any of us! Or?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:32
Open-Loop (@ronnoel_a) ID#176200:
Copyright © 1998 Open-Loop/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Based on your comments on reporting laws, I know alot of felons.

In the event of a catastrophic banking crisis, do you really think
that if gold is to be seized, that they would leave numi's alone?

I doubt it.

If E.O.'s become law if congress does not kill them, was Roseavelt's
E.O. to grab the gold the law of the land until congress made it legal for us to own gold once again?

And, how did so many double eagles survive the confiscation? Were they
not contraban?

Unless statutes are presented that I can follow up on I will go with whats on the moneychanger site,

Regards, O.L.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:29
robnoel__A (Mozel I feel I know more about EO than most when the Pres signs one he gives it a time certain 30-60) ID#410198:
90 days it is then placed in the Federal Registra if no one objects during that period stated it becomes LAW,I have done extensive work on EO's see URL below as for Sanders I responded to all 6 points to Open-Loop

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:29
Gollum (DOW -79) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I would like to anounce that another new pilot has earned their wings here at Gollum airlines. Not a bad flight at all for a rookie. Although she did overcontrol a time or two here and there, she managed to get it back to the field without seriously damageing anything.

Inasmuch as yesterday we came in a bit above target and today a bit below target, we are still on course for our September rally. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

I am sorry to say that I was not able to get the PM levers repaired and I am afraid we may have to wait until Zelem lights up his candle before anything of great significance occurs. I and all the maintenance staff will continue to work through the night however. If we can get things at least jury rigged enough to work a little it will give many of us a chance to lighten up our holdings a little in preperation for going down into Zelem's launch pit.

Again, welcome back rookie, good flight.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:27
Copyright © 1998 FOX-MAN__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Prev. Received Net Chg Total
Total Withdrawn Adjust. Today
R 3,544,911 0 0 0 604,658 4,149,569
E 1,380,909 130,859 0 130,859 -604,658 907,110
T 4,925,820 130,859 0 130,859 0 5,056,679

R 15,531,744 0 0 0 0 15,531,744
E 5,542,342 0 0 0 0 5,542,342
T 21,074,086 0 0 0 0 21,074,086

R 23,499,459 0 0 0 0 23,499,459
E 21,651,670 0 600,187 -600,187 0 21,051,483
T 45,151,129 0 600,187 -600,187 0 44,550,942

R 0 0 0 0 0 0
E 7,933,259 0 0 0 0 7,933,259
T 7,933,259 0 0 0 0 7,933,259

42,576,114 0 0 0 604,658 43,180,772
36,508,180 130,859 600,187 -469,328 -604,658 35,434,194
79,084,294 130,859 600,187 -469,328 0 78,614,966
Sorry the columns don't line up, but essentially, what we have today
is this. There were 130,859 oz's added to eligibles at one depository.
There were 600,187 oz's removed from the eligibles at another depository.
This boils down to a drawdown of 469,328 oz's from the the combined totals. BUT! There was also an adjustment. There was 604,658 oz's
transferred from eligible to registered at one depository! This means that there are now roughly 1 million oz's LESS in total eligible Silver!

I'm still not completely sure, but if I understand correctly, the amount
of Comex Silver available for actual delivery is the amount that resides
in the total ELIGIBLE stock! This total is still going down! The Silver
that resides in REGISTERED stock is already spoken for, and is being stored there for a fee. Any corrections on this, please post them. TIA

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:24
larryn__A (Exec orders) ID#32078:
It is my understanding that unless Congress overrules an EO, it becomes effectively a law after 60 days. Something we were not taught in civics 101. Can anyone else refute this?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:18
Leland (Yahoo Has a List of Big Loosers - Not a Single Precious Metals Stock on the List) ID#31876:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:08
Cage Rattler () ID#33184:
Today has been denoted as one of these pre-defined points in this system.

23 of the last 25 major stock market turns since 1980 have occurred within 2 days of one of these points.

More info at$TA_ap_points.htm

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:06
truenorth__A (Sequin/DruckenMiller-Soros) ID#189268:
Copyright © 1998 truenorth__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Let's not get carried away here. The Quantum funds lost $2 billion in Russia and they also lost another $2 billion last year in October. They are not infallible and often wrong. They do make large bets in different areas and are rewarded but not always. He made some intersting comments regarding sentiment indicators. Mr. DruckenMiller stated that last April bullish sentiment was 80% and put/call ratios were extremely low. He surmised that the market was due for a fall, yet we know that while the transports and Russel peaked then, the Nasdaq and Dow/S&P did not peak till mid-July. Now he says the opposite is true, 19% bullishness and high put/call ratio. Is this an early reading or will this be another losing trade? He is also short Hong Kong which I think will be a big winner. The HKMA has spent $2 billion already in a futile attempt to displace reality.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 16:05
762,013 0 0 0 19,501 781,514
150,504 0 0 0 -19,501 131,003
912,517 0 0 0 0 912,517
The second to last column shows an adjustment of 19,501 oz's of Gold that
was transferred from eligible to registered.
Silver stats coming up...They're better!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:59
mozel (@robnoel @What is your authority for saying that an E.O not voted on) ID#153110:
by Congress becomes law ?

You, not Sanders, are the author of disinformation. I know I will reget doing this, and doubt you will see the light, but if anyone wants your disinformation exposed, let them say so and let's start with number 1 of your 6 and proceed in order.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:51
COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Aug. 26

Gold 912,517 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 78,614,966 - 469,328 troy ounces
Copper 58,273 + 0 short tons

I'll show the individual stats for each shortly. Silver is getting
very interesting indeed! More Silver moved from eligible to registered!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:49
Auric (Lurker777 @ 14:54) ID#255151:

Another idea for a $31,000 Gold purchase-- Could buy 95 Mounties with a guaranteed price of US$ 310 until Jan 2000.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:47
Auric (Lurker777 @ 14:54) ID#255151:

Another idea for a $31,000 Gold purchase-- Could buy 95 Mounties with a guaranteed price of US$ 310 until Jan 2000.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:45
ChasAbar__A (Down, in more ways than one. %^((() ID#287358:
Copyright © 1998 ChasAbar__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hello... Does anyone know of a list created recently by any
professional ( for money ) advisor, or by a Kitco citizen, that indicates
names of gold and silver mining companies that will still be alive at
various points of time and price? JD and others have been helpful
with regard to SA golds. I am chiefly looking for a silver co. listing.
It does no good to bottom fish, as I did with Pegasus Gold, if they go
belly up before the market price can save them. I thought I was smart with Pegasus, and then sold out at .05 when I read that shares will be
worthless soon. Loss of 80% to me. My USERX which I have owned for about 15 years, is now down 96%, and that is after adding in all those whopping dividends throughout the years. Yamana warrants were
100% loss. Even SMR, SUR, VGZ, and of course many other metals
stocks are down 90% from where they were recommended by one or
more of Douglas Casey, Bob Bishop and others. I would be willing to
put more $$ into a 10-bagger or 20-bagger situation *if* I had
reasonably high confidence that a given co could weather another
year or two of depressed prices, if need be. Someone posted that SSRIF will run out of money soon. Is this true? Anyone? Lists? Ideas?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:44
mozel (@Jack) ID#153110:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A certificate is not the thing. A Certificate of Title for a motor vehicle is not the title to the motor vehicle. A certificate of title to gold is not title to gold and is not gold. Gold in your lawful possession is yours. Gold in the possession of the people is the people's. Redeemibility is but a promise.

In circumstances where the banks have all the gold, they function essentially as did the Jewish moneylenders of the middle ages. In return for delivery of something tangible or upon execution of a mortgage or other security instrument with something tangible as the collateral, they agree to let you have a sum of money on the condition that sum plus interest will be paid back by a date certain. It does not matter if the borrower is a King, a knight, a farmer, a manufacturer, or an elected government. It is all the same arrangement with the same legal underpinnings. And time and time again in history the one event which invariably creates a demand for gold is war. The legal underpinnings that we live still with today came into being when Kings and Popes wanted knights to go on Crusades and knights needed gold for armor. Now governments need gold or credit for motorized aerial and land armor. And interest is paid not just on loans of gold, but on loans of credit. Perpetual war for perpetual borrowing for greater accumulation of wealth in the hands of moneylenders and creditlenders does not happen by accident. Qui bono ? Who benefits ?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:43
Oro__A (Technically - his is a critical day) ID#185378:
Copyright © 1998 Oro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A log trendline analysis reveals the following about the current levels of the key indexes that are touching their historical support lines this week and today:

Supporting trendlines:

XAU at 1986 gold plunge bottom - horizontal support line.
CRB at 1986 oil glut bottom - horizontal support line.
POG at 1986 gold plunge bottom - horizontal support line
Real POG at 1971 - just at the disconnection of $$ from gold.
DJTA at 1995 -1998 bull market support trendline. 1997-8 bull trend is over. Reversion to 80s-90s bull trend would require a fall of 1000 pts to 1900.
DXY and $/Yen - $$ is at the 1995-1998 support line and at the 1998 horizontal resistance - forming a rising wedge.
DJIA is at the 1995 -1998 bull market support trendline. Reversion to 80s-90s bull trend would require a fall of 2500 pts to 6000.
NDX is at the Jun -Aug 1998 technology is immune to economy support line. Reversion to 95 technology bull market requires a drop of 150 to 1200, while reversion to 90s trend requires a drop of 300 to 1050-1100.
SPX is at the 1995 -1998 bull market support trendline. Reversion to 80s-90s bull trend would require a fall of 500 pts to 600. The 1997-1998 bull surge is over.
DJUA and 30 yr Bond are below the 1997-1998 flight to safety support line indicating that it is over.

Resistance lines:
DXY and $/Yen - $$ is at the 1998 horizontal resistance line.
NDX - at its downward Jul-Aug resistance line. At the point of a rising/declining wedge.

DJUA and 30 yr Bond are at the 1994-1998 resistance line.

Economic indicator turns:
Wage cost index growth rate - from down to up in Jan 1998.
Inflation growth rate - from negative to positive in Jun 1998.
Trade deficit - from dropping to rising.
Consumer debt - new all time highs at 95% of GDP.
US govt. debt growth - trend reversal at Apr 1998.

The economics behind this:

1. The current trend: dollar rise/bond rise/interest rate decline/rising stocks/rising technology investment/rising consumer debt and spending/rising technology and commodity exports/falling commodity prices.
This is part of a favorable self reinforcing spiral that is funded by the willingness of Japan and other trading partners to accept dollars for real product despite US trade deficits and from their willingness to reinvest in the US capital markets.

2. Continuation of the trend requires the following: Continued influx of Japanese and other flight capital to finance US private borrowing. Continued influx of people into the US to take up jobs without raising wages. Continued purchases by the world of US technology, services ( financial ) and entertainment. Continued drop in commodity prices.

3. The trends that must be continued to maintain rising stocks ( rising PE multiple and/or EPS growth ) and dropping inflation require competing imports that would utterly destroy all US manufacturing, this is contradictory and put technology investment out of reach of worldwide corporations. Rising consumption requires the growth of wages and money supply ( by low interest rates ) without inflation ( which raises interest rates ) the gap can only be filled with falling commodity/goods/services prices, this is contradictory ( productivity growth is not strong enough to fill the gaps ) .

4. The contradictory trends and their current intersection indicate that this is the point of reversal - something has got to give. The easiest - lowest resistance paths - are: a. The elimination of earnings followed by b. elimination of capital and technology expenditure, and c. closing of mines and oil fields as well as mass firings in the manufacturing side. d. On the services side, continued inflation and reduced growth as business and consumer consumption are limited by manufacturing margin declines and firings, respectively. e. Service wages continue to rise while former industrial workers sit at home. f. Closed mines and oil fields reduce supply to well below demand and prices start to rise as US import consumption ( in units- if not in $$ ) induce higher demand.

The results: a. Margin squeeze causes EPS collapse and stock market decline. b. Service inflation causes higher interest rates. c. Mass firings cause highly leveraged consumers to default, causing a contraction in the money supply and serious banking problems. d. Trade deficit grows as commodities and goods flood the US, which pressures the dollar. e. Services inflation further pressures dollar. f. Falling dollar raises long term interest rates and reduces money supply as foreign money exits the US. g. Commodity price inflation.

Bottom line: Dollar reversal, stock market bear, wage inflation, higher interest rates and higher gold.

When? When the Russian shoe is completely dropped and the Chinese either devalue or it becomes clear that they are not going to do so ( what I believe ) . When the Swiss stop selling gold for the Russians every Wednesday. When the bucket brigade runs out of money, ( since they are carry traders - when a Japanese intervention occurs ) .

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:42
JTF (LBMA vs COMEX) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aragorn III: Thanks for responding. I apologize for being a little strong on my prior post, but the bearishness of gold equities has been a bit stressful. Better half is getting tired of my gold/silver - related losses. Silver better start moving soon, as I am in the doghouse.

I think I understand COMEX better after your post -- COMEX ( unlike LBMA ) does not require gold collateral, cash exchanges will do. However, I still have a serious problem with the LBMA, which I suspect is also doing what COMEX does -- and then some. Now -- certainly some of what the LBMA does is to act as a clearing house for physical gold -- e-gold -- as you put it. Probably some sort of 'scrip' is used for each ounce of gold in the transactions, so that the unweildy gold does not need to be moved around.

My problem is the LBMA is this. They claim that well over 1000 tonnes of gold is traded on the LBMA every day! Well, in two days that would be the entire World's production of gold.

So something is amiss --- the LBMA cannot possibly be exchanging this much e-gold. I'll bet that the LBMA is doing everything that COMEX is doing with gold speculation -- derivatives, gold carries, forwards, whatever. As well as the basic e-gold that the Rothschilds and their ilk might want. And, I doubt all the CB gold sales and gold loans are going through COMEX -- more likely the more anonymous international bullion houses.

Any idea how much gold and gold derivatives COMEX is trading daily? Does it come close to 1000+ tonnes per day ( on paper, at least ) ? Is it increasing or decreasing? There must be a reason why LBMA is boasting about the 1000 tonnes plus of gold traded daily. Perhaps they have an angle with the international speculators COMEX does not have. Perhap this has something to do with why Warren Buffett is trading silver on the european exchanges instead of on COMEX.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:41
Gianni Dioro__A (Market movers doin' their thing) ID#384350:
The dow has rallied sharply without the Adv/Dec line doing much at all. Whenever Tokyo closes below 15,000 it seems that there is damage control, first in NY then later on in Tokyo to get that damn Nikkei back above 15,000. The hurricane Bonnie is getting little attention over here in the Island that is Green. How 'bout in N America?

On another line, Gold coins often have a nominal value like $50 on them. I understand that if you wanted to you could take it into a store and buy a bag of groceries with it. It may be worth $400 but the storekeeper only has to take it for $50. Therefore if deflation were to kick in without currency destruction, they would want to have a low face value.

I sometimes wonder about recall ( glorified confiscation ) . I forget who it is who has his Maple Leafs stored in Canada. I think it's a good idea to have your monies outside of the country of which you are a national or resident, but I wonder if having Gold Canadian Currency ( ML's ) in Canadian Borders is the best. I suppose if they want it they's a gonna take it.

Another comment on possible impeachment by Klinton. It ain't gonna happen. Mozel pointed out that if Klinton were impeached, then it would throw into doubt every law that he has signed into action.

Resignation - likely, Impeachment - very doubtful.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:40
I hope he will get what he deserves for misleading the gullible crowd about stocks.The PPT just fired its last round on CNBC

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:38
Jack (It would be instructive if the LBMA issued) ID#252127:

statistics based on the percentage of transactions in derivative and physical gold.

Gianni, thanks for your many clear and instructive posts.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:36
Aragorn III (2BR02B?...14:22) ID#212323:
Nice to have an acknowledgement of my jest...even at the expense of so much bandwidth. But not knowing exactly what bandwidth is, I hereby salute you and

the moon ( hi )

and suggest that the testing is complete for now.

got smiles?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:34
Lurker 777 ( What if:) ID#317247:
Copyright © 1998 Lurker 777/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Our precious gold drops to $190 ( Armstrong @PIE ) before November 1999. You sell your gold for $190 + 3.3% ( $196.27 oz ) Multiplied by 100 coins = $19,627 and sell the Put for $280 - $190 ( $90. ) multiplied by 100 = $9,000. $19,627 + $9,000 = $28,627 return. Original investment of $30,414 - $28,627 = $1,787 loss or -6%.

How about $50.00 GOLD:

Sell the gold for 2000 shilling face value ( $160.00 oz ) Multiplied by 100 coins = $ 16,000 and sell the Put for $280 - $50 ( $230. ) multiplied by 100 = $23,000. $16,000 + $23,000 = $39,000 return. Original investment of $30,414 - $39,000 = $8,586 PROFIT or +28%.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:30
robnoel__A (Open-Loop...EOs become laws if not voted on by Congress why do you think Clinton is signing so many) ID#410198:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sorry to hear about your sister however there are just as many horror storys on Wall Street if not more,

As for Moneychangers his first 6 points are in fact BS

1 ) I have already blown that one away

2 ) Any purchase that excedes $10,000.00 in a calender year of bullion that is paid for in either cash,Bank Chq,or money order is reportable

3 ) See EO 6260

4 ) first very few coins were minted in 1933 and if you do have one it is still subject to confiscation because they never went into circulation and therefore were stolin from the mint

5 ) where he sucked that from I have no idea same goes for # 6

It would be interesting how much this guy charges for his bullion products he is opposite to numis guys but does not have the guts to post his prices just a 800 # so you can turn in your numis for bullion thinks he will pay far below market value on numis to sell you bullion

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:21
Gianni Dioro__A (Jack, Central Banks is private property) ID#384350:
...and do not belong to the public. Actually money is far too important and should be a form of barter. Gold, Silver, and Copper have intrinsic value and can be traded as a unit of account. There could also be redeemable notes like you said for these metals or even agricultural products such as tobacco, wheat, etc.

The main evil to any currency is that of usury. Whether it is gold or fiat, Usury creates booms and busts and end the end the usurer ( Central Banks & their owners ) wind up owning the near totality of the wealth.

That is why Usury is illegal according to Christian principles, because of the damage, war, famine, and injustice it causes. One of the most prosperous periods in Europe were the periods when usury was not practised. It is amazing how quickly someone like the Rothschild clan can move into a country and in a very short time end up controlling most of that country's wealth.

Usury is the loaning of money for interest, plain and simple. Be it 2% or 200%, it is usury, it is a debt trap, it is a scam, and it is against God's law.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:18
Servhard (@sharefin -a special one- and all posters...) ID#287193:
Copyright © 1998 Servhard/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This personal 'Thank You' -is long overdue- but none the less warm and honest.
For many month now I am looking up the URL's you so freely post here.
The markets are not inspiring today, so; I spend several hours following your links,m oreover, just moments ago were guided back here by one of those harmless 'Gold-Links'.
We sure have a perfect exploration tool with this Internet.
The nature of the beast, although very addictive, has but little power to convince or convict.
However, it has the ability to form and build friendships. You are a real friend!
Of course I do appreciate all the posters and say 'THANK YOU TO ALL'
What would the lurkers do without you?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:17
OLD GOLD (Bad Calls) ID#242325:
DA: Some months ago you argued that with rapid money growth it would be a mistake to short anything except bonds. Well bonds have been one of the few areas where the longs have done well this year.

Welcome to the ranks of those who have made bad calls ( and that includes me ) .

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:16
Aragorn III (JTF...a response, then hopefully we have ARRIVED!) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A little misunderstanding seems to remain ( judging from my take on your comment: Aragorn III -- I still challenge you to show me that COMEX gold trading is essentially the same as LBMA gold trading -- I suspect that the big guys prefer the LBMA -- if for nothing else, the privacy. Last I heard, '2000 or tonnes/day' traded at LBMA - which probably is based on face gold value of all trades, derivatives included. And what would be the face gold value of all trades on COMEX? I'll bet it is dwindling with
the gold reserves. I would certainly like to be wrong about this. )

You see, in my post I tried to show you that COMEX gold trading is essentially *NOT* the same as LBMA gold trading. Please read it more carefully...I have pasted it here with a few adjustments in an attempt to make it crystal clear.

I offer this for your consideration:
These two, the LBMA and the Comex are fundamentally DIFFERENT
operations. It is comparing apples to oranges, to use a popular

The gold trading that takes place on the COMEX is fundamentally the same as speculating in the currency markets or any other market. And remember, that what is considered speculation to one man is hedging to another--a fundamental business activity for producers and users of ANY prominant commodity. Although the context for speculating and hedging are different, the PROCESS is the same. It is THIS pursuit that keeps
them busy at the COMEX--dealing with speculators and hedgers.

COMEX is the meeting place for both sides of the bet on the commodity price of gold. USUALLY the bets are settled with CASH, but sometimes with metal. The metal NEED NOT BE PRESENT for the bookie to take the bet...agreed? The losing side of the two-sided bet will ultimately provide the settlement. The gold need not ever pass the doors of the COMEX--either inbound or outbound.

In fact, one might reasonably wonder why COMEX would maintain any level of eligible gold inventory at all. The REGISTERED stuff belongs to someone else paying a fee for storage. That is a different business arrangement. I can only suggest that the ELIGIBLE gold is obtained as a broker for COMEX is instructed to take the purchase side of a bet against a seller when the price offered is a steal, and the outcome of the bet is then settled with metal rather than cash. COMEX could then expect to participate on the seller side when prices are favorable to do so.

Those looking to PURCHASE gold DO NOT usually go shopping at the COMEX
warehouses. Those looking to lock in prices DO meet at COMEX. Brokering these bets is their principle gold required.

Have you noticed a large increase in the Registered gold inventory over the past 6 months? It is stored there for a fee. It would seems that some new owners without storage capability have taken a long position during this time. Agreed? Perhaps this gold was purchased through the likes of the LBMA...a fine place to meet all of your gold market needs whether they be derivitive in nature or outright TRANSFER of gold ownership ( their specialty!! ) Perhaps think of the LBMA as a vast global version of e-gold. If you understand the operating principle of e-gold, you grasp the crux of LBMA.

I hope this helps you recognize the distinction between COMEX and LBMA operations.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:08
Open-Loop (@robnoel_a@sharefin... I did not accuse you of using that line!) ID#176200:
Copyright © 1998 Open-Loop/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Agreed that most numi's do not track the price of gold. You stated that
most of the stuff on sharefin's link was B.S. I simply want you to show
me why you say it is. Executative orders are not laws or statutes.

My sister got suckered by a BIG DEALER in New Orleans to the tune of
150k. Their line was they can't take it from you like the they can take
bullion. You will make lots of money on these rare coins. If she sells
today she would loose around 50k! She now only buys bullion and not from those guys!

I think sharefin's link was right on!
If the poop hits the rotary oscillator, numi's will be worth melt IMHO.

Regards, O.L.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:07
robnoel__A (Mozel....with all due respect I challenge you to pick out on truth from # 1-6 it is all BS) ID#410198:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:04
Gollum (DOW -100) ID#35571:
Gollum to rookie, Gollum to rookie, over. Gollum to rookie, please respond. It's getting close to time to prepare for landing. Let's start bringing that bird in.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 15:04
Jack (Giani Dioro) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

In such a situation it would be best for effected countries to remove those entities controlling their CB and the nation taking over the handling of their gold and paper currency.

It might be best for such countries to issue gold and silver certificates, denominated in ounces, but with a minimum attached currency value, so that their citizens might take advantage of a rising price if applicable.

Such certificates would also act as voting mechanizism which would become obvious when their citizens request the real thing.

Also to prevent foreigners from exporting such gold, their laws should allow foronly their own citizens to possess the certificates. Any deviation from the law would be a punishable act.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:59
Jack (Giani Dioro) ID#237264:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

In such a situation it would be best for effected countries to remove those controlling the CB's and the nations themselves taking over the handling of their nations money.

It might be best for such countries to issue gold and silver certificates, denominated in ounces, but with a minimum attached currency value, so that their citizens might take advantage of a rising price if applicable.

Such certificates would also act as voting mechanizism which would become obvious when their citizens request the real thing.

Also to prevent foreigners from exporting such gold, their laws will allow only their own citizens to possess the certificates. Any deviation from the law would be a punishable act.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:54
Copyright © 1998 Lurker 777/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am sure there are countless numbers of Lurkers ( like myself ) out there wanting to get involved in buying gold but are concerned about the horrific bear market we have witnessed over the last 3 years. The most pressing question is where’s the bottom? Because no one can guarantee me “how low can we go” I like to cover my bets. Because of the absence of detailed investment opinions with limited risk on the purchase of Bullion coins I offer you following information at your own risk.
IMVHO - If you have at least $31,000. to invest in gold bullion.
Buy 100 Austrain Philharmonic 999.9% pure 1 oz. gold coins and a COMEX Put option ( 100 oz. ) to cover your ASSets. One Put option will pay you $100. for every $1. gold goes below the strike price plus any built in premium.
1 ) You will need to open a account with a discount futures broker for $2,500 to $5,000. This can be done over your fax and the money can be wired from your bank in one day. Then you will need to send them the original forms overnight ( They Pay ) .
2 ) You will need to purchase coins from a reputable dealer because they will hold your funds for up to three weeks before sending your coins to you. ( RJ at Monex ) 800-949-4653 #2262
Example at yesterday's spot prices ( 282.75 ) :
A. Buy 100 Philharmonic coins ( 4.7%over spot ) for $29,604. or $296.04 per oz.
B. Buy one December 1999 280 put ( 100 oz. contract ) for $810. . Quotes at : ( )

Total cost per coin with Put option is $304.14 each. If Gold drops below $280 per oz. you can sell your coins for 3.3% over spot to: ( ) and your downside risk is LESS THAN 4%. Gold has to be higher than $304.14 to make money but you have until the second week of November 1999 until the Put option expires!

The best Bullion Coin: The Austrian Philharmoiker one oz. 999.9% pure Gold coins have the highest monetary face value of any Gold bullion coin ( 2000 Shilling or $160.00 U.S. ) and are the biggest seller in the world. AND as a added bonus, if the Gold price were to collapse the coins could be redeemed for their face value.BUY REAL GOLD!!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:51
FOX-MAN__A (Gollum; Your rookie pilot has been flying in this low valley for some time now.) ID#288186:
It might be wise to try and contact that plane. You know, valleys
don't stretch out that long of a distance. This ole plane will have
to pull up soon or it'll be breaking into little dow pieces...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:51
hugo (stocks-gold) ID#402151:

Seems to me one of gold's problems is that Comex closes too early. this morning the 100+ drop in the Dow had gold spiking up. Stocks recovered, gold tanked. Gold closed, stocks watches. Kitcoites are left hoping that the selling won't exhaust itself before tomorrow.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:49
robnoel__A (Sorry guys I have a MAC I have no control) ID#410198:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:49
Year2000 (Monica's Credit Card?) ID#222107:
The Drudge Report has a story about Monica's $11,000 credit card bill was paid-off by someone. She is so stupid. Why didn't she just take 36 Maple Leafs?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:49
moa__A (gold ready to bail?) ID#281175:
If it breaks below 280 the support is not there until 250-260...capitulation?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:46
robnoel__A (Open-Loop/sharefin....I can defend numismatics,I can't defend numismatic dealers.....Roosevelt on ) ID#410198:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aug. 28,1933 issued EO # 6260...An act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking and for other purposes
Henry Morgenthau Acting sec. of the treasury, do hereby require every person subject to the jurisdiction of the US forwith to pay and deliver to the Treasury of the US all gold coin,gold bullion and gold certificates situated in the US,owned by such person,except as follows:

Section B ) Of this order states B ) GOLD COIN HAVING A RECOGNIZED SPECIAL VALUE TO COLLECTORS OR RARE AND UNUSUAL COIN ( but not including quarter eagles,otherwise known as $2.50 pieces ) ....

I would like to point out again as I have done many times the reason to buy numismatics has nothing to do with question many dealers use this to sell high priced numismatics.....there are some of us who sell numis for fair market value for instance I sell MS 61 Libs/Saints for $495.00 I will pay $475.00 as for bullion US Eagles I sell for $309.00 I pay $295.00 ......why do I push numis....this time last year I was selling MS 61's for $429.00 US Eagles were selling for $325.00

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:46
robnoel__A (Open-Loop/sharefin....I can defend numismatics,I can't defend numismatic dealers.....Roosevelt on ) ID#410198:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aug. 28,1933 issued EO # 6260...An act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking and for other purposes
Henry Morgenthau Acting sec. of the treasury, do hereby require every person subject to the jurisdiction of the US forwith to pay and deliver to the Treasury of the US all gold coin,gold bullion and gold certificates situated in the US,owned by such person,except as follows:

Section B ) Of this order states B ) GOLD COIN HAVING A RECOGNIZED SPECIAL VALUE TO COLLECTORS OR RARE AND UNUSUAL COIN ( but not including quarter eagles,otherwise known as $2.50 pieces ) ....

I would like to point out again as I have done many times the reason to buy numismatics has nothing to do with question many dealers use this to sell high priced numismatics.....there are some of us who sell numis for fair market value for instance I sell MS 61 Libs/Saints for $495.00 I will pay $475.00 as for bullion US Eagles I sell for $309.00 I pay $295.00 ......why do I push numis....this time last year I was selling MS 61's for $429.00 US Eagles were selling for $325.00

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:44
robnoel__A (Open-Loop/sharefin....I can defend numismatics,I can't defend numismatic dealers.....Roosevelt on ) ID#410198:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aug. 28,1933 issued EO # 6260...An act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking and for other purposes
Henry Morgenthau Acting sec. of the treasury, do hereby require every person subject to the jurisdiction of the US forwith to pay and deliver to the Treasury of the US all gold coin,gold bullion and gold certificates situated in the US,owned by such person,except as follows:

Section B ) Of this order states B ) GOLD COIN HAVING A RECOGNIZED SPECIAL VALUE TO COLLECTORS OR RARE AND UNUSUAL COIN ( but not including quarter eagles,otherwise known as $2.50 pieces ) ....

I would like to point out again as I have done many times the reason to buy numismatics has nothing to do with question many dealers use this to sell high priced numismatics.....there are some of us who sell numis for fair market value for instance I sell MS 61 Libs/Saints for $495.00 I will pay $475.00 as for bullion US Eagles I sell for $309.00 I pay $295.00 ......why do I push numis....this time last year I was selling MS 61's for $429.00 US Eagles were selling for $325.00

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:39
Gianni Dioro__A (If the Aussie Dollar keeps tanking) ID#384350:
...I might just head down under to buy Sharefin's house. I'll live on Gator meat and Sugar Cane.

What's the Reserve, Sharefin?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:38
Year2000 (Monica's Credit Card?) ID#222107:
The Drudge Report has a story about Monica's $11,000 credit card bill was paid-off by someone. She is so stupid. Why didn't she just take 36 Maple Leafs?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:32
Auric (Bingo) ID#255151:

Got yer message a few days ago. I am on Webtv
and can't cut and paste the URLs. Gotta type 'em out. Speaking of URLs, my 14:22 URL got screwed up! Will try once more-- ( Gh ) /guides/mtr/hurr/names.rxml

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:29
Gianni Dioro__A (@Jack, Central Bank Selling) ID#384350:
Do you ever wonder who is on the other side of these transactions?

If you owned shares in many of the Central Banks around the world and you knew that there was going to be currency destruction, wouldn't you try sneak the gold out of the Central Banks and into your private vaults before the masses would start demanding that you sell the Central banks' Gold reserves to the general public, all in a futile attempt to restore calm.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:26
FOX-MAN__A (Things have gotten really weird here at kitco, since 14:09) ID#288186:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:22
Bingo (When theorizing what may come of all the scenarios looming ahead-) ID#258347:
imminent war, the Euro's birth, gold being cut loose from it's noose, Y2K, etc, etc, one should take into account who stands to gain, because about the ONLY thing they don't ( try to ) control is what happens OFF this planet.

Clinton is but a puppet. The ones standing behind him are the ones to

watch out for. IMO, of course.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:22
Auric (Hurricane Earl!) ID#255151:

After Bonnie and Danielle... Yep, you guessed it. This has got to be good for Gold. ( Gh ) /guides/mtr/hurr/names.rxml

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:22
2BR02B? (the moon) ID#266105:

Testing Aragorn.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:18
Jack () ID#237264:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

If one believes as I do:
That the Central Banks are controled by their nations bankers and other monied elite, then the probability exists that such interests are the ones who promoted gold loans and later will take possession of a goodly portion of nations gold hoard at fire sale prices.

The well connected banks who lend this gold for sale by the speculators and mining companies, know that by legal contract this gold must come back, by law, while at the same time the existance of this gold depresses the gold markets, the low price gives those entities the opportunity to buy it back using their own agents, who will return this metal to the controling bankers.

Additionally mining companies, effected by the low gold price will be obligated to give up their properties; if they cannot perform their obligations.

So its my feeling that the monied elite are raping their nations gold stock at the expense of their people.

If I am right, then what I have alluded to above is a serious miscarriage perpetrated upon the people of these nations

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:14
mozel (@sharefin @robnoel) ID#153102:
Moneychanger site has no misinformation I know of.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:09
Aragorn III (Oooops! Sorry for the double post.) ID#212323:
got gold?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:09
Aragorn III (Oooops! Sorry for the double post.) ID#212323:
got gold?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:06
Mountain Goat (@Gollum Airlines) ID#35087:
Where is our lovely and talented flight attendant Golden CheeseNoodle?
The DOW is down, and I have yet to see anyone scream about it today.

Missin' those CAPS.

MG ( Go Gold! )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:04
Dave (@open_loop, there is ) ID#261155:
no private property.....none.....that the gov't can't and will not take
under Marshall law....and the decision...of what is to be taken, and when it is to be taken, is left to the discretion of the lowliest gov't grunt...and that even includes your body for their labors....should they
be so inspired, to need clean dishes and someone to fix 'em a nice hot meal..^s^

and SDRer....sugar farmers didn't fall for pie in sky...but I bet sugar gets harvested bye and bye....^s^

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:04
Pete (Gollum-Deflation is nothing to fear- by Gary Shilling-WSJ) ID#222231:
Copyright © 1998 Pete/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gary Shilling basically compares this current deflation to the one following the Civil War from 1869 to 1898 where a deflation of wholesale prices dropped by 50%. Why did'nt he compare the deflation of wholesale prices from 1969 to 1998 to the above? An exact 100 year cycle.

Excerpt from WSJ, pg A22 Wens Aug 26,98 of above; last paragraph:

As the effects of the Asian crises become more vivid, the fear of the bad deflation of the 1930s will grow. Fortunately, the good deflation of excess supply is more likely.

How do you like them apples? There is a good deflation? Am I missing something?

Your post re. intelligence agencies as to which is the superior, the Mossad without a doubt. They all work hand in hand probably under the direction of the Mossad.

I've got a headache BBL

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 14:02
Gandalf the White (Gollum Aerolines Pilot) ID#433301:
You did well pulling it out of that 50 point downdraft ! would you consider assisting in pulling the XAU out of the freefall that is happening today ?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:55
JP (Runaway deflation is accelerating ) ID#253153:
With the Xau convincingly declining below the 200 level , financial chaos world wide and business slowing down, it should become apparent to you that we are going into a depression in North America.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:55
The Hatt (Derivitives are unwinding and the hedge funds are scrambling.....) ID#369369:
Somewhere in the world derivitives are unwinding and hedge funds are scrambling to avoid creating the dominoe effect! When word gets out about the exposure worldwide the fiat currency will have taken its last breath........ God bless the average hard working people of the world...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:53
Speed (Spot gold at 281?) ID#28861:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:52
Silverthorn__A (Lurker777) ID#247309:
You have been posting the necessity of puts to protect physical for months! The only problem with 12/99 280 puts is that the premium increases somewhat for the time factor. But these are not anti-gold, they are pro-physical. It's just that the market is

NASB. With the puts, we can watch this together, yes?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:48
Open-Loop (@robnoel_A Gold confiscation and numismatics) ID#176200:
You could start off by citing the statute that protects numasmatic gold from confiscation ( pre 1933 ) over currently issued Eagles. All gold
dealers I have dealt with except one has tried to push this collectable
gold on me using the can't confiscate song and dance. I have never bought the story then and now. The dealers make alot more money on the collectables than they do on bullion. Sharefin's post did include statutes. Please show us!

Regards, O.L.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:47
Gandalf the White (Message to Pilot of Gollum Aerolines) ID#433301:
The planes nose is becoming VERY heavy. Please remember to find a very deep valley ahead so that you have a chance to pullup out of this forthcoming DIVE.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:45
Lurker 777 (Silverthorn__A) ID#317247:
I bought all my gold under $300 an oz. and every oz. is protected with Dec 99 290 puts! I am glad to hear others at Kitco have limited their downside risk. I will post my system once again for the Newbees in about an hour.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:41
Dave (@SDRer maybe they are targeting) ID#261155:
commodities that are always rationed during in WWII...sugar,
is one of the first, it is essential to so many things......^s^

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:38
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
One reason why European central banks have been lending all their gold might be the following:
As we all know , the major actors ( hence profit makers ) in the gold repo market are the bullion banks. The most prominent being NM ROTHSCHILD. These banks have close ties to central banks and governments. One day , these bullion banks had an idea.Let's drive the POG to such insane low levels that the entire world of private and institutional investors will have no choice but sell. This was to be a self-reinforcing process with mine and hedge fund short selling.The problem was then to drive the POG lower.The only available supply was in CB's vaults and most would not sell except the weak hands ( Argentina , Netherland , Belgium, Australia , maybe the swiss with a carefully constructed defamation campaign ... ) . The solution was to adapt the REPO system already in use in the bond business . The ties of these bullion banks with CBs and Administrations were strong enough to persuade them to lend their gold. ( eventually , the faithfull would get jobs or incredible rewards as the scheme was to appropriate the whole world wealth or most of it. ) The second step would be to buy the entire stock of gold at sale fire price with paper made from stock profits and gold loan operations. Who cares if the CB never got the gold back as it belongs to the people and the people are there to get slaughtered.
We are witnessing the biggest financial scheme ever engineered and the appropriation of the entire world wealth by a few.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:38
sharefin (Robnoel) ID#284255:
I really can't comment.
I just don't know enough about the subject.

Just picked the site up surfing and thought I'd paste it here.
I find it interesting to drop articles in here so they can be commented on.

T'is a learning curve for us all.
Gleaning the truth between the waves.

The site seems like many - to offer advice for a price.
So many out there - it's hard to read between the lines.

They obviously are out of touch on the numismatics.
After reading of that recent collection that went up for sale.

Could you perhaps poke some holes in his comments?
So I can learn some more.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:37
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

2% here, 3% there, not-to-pretty soon you're talking real ( ? ) money.

I guess the contrarian bet to the flow would
be USD and Treasuries. Not.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:32
Winston__A (Battle Mountain Gold Question) ID#244418:
I notice Battle Mountain Gold Preferred is paying an 8.69% dividend. Can anyone tell me if this mining company is OK or not OK to buy into?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:29
macbug__A (Privacy Issues) ID#349246:
I just wanted to share a site I found when I was trying to figure
out how to stop people from calling me with telemarketing calls.

The site ( intelligently ) deals with all kinds of privacy issues and
seems to be run in a completely non-profit way. I found the discussions
of internet privacy to be very illuminating ( and a little disturbing ) .

They have a few tests which allow you to access their site and they then
print out all of the information they were able to glean from your
request ( such as, perhaps your name? ) . They also list sites which are
now selling the personal information being gathered about internet users.

They also have a page which allows you to request that telemarketers
stop calling you and also to request that junk-mailers stop sending you
stuff ( customizable and completely free ) .

Sorry, the only link to gold investing here is the aspect of keeping
your financial details secret ( Check out the anonymizer pages to
learn more about anonymous web surfing and filling out forms )

I thought it was a very interesting read and couldn't think of a better
group of folks to share it with. Enjoy.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:27
robnoel__A (sharefin....Moneychanges has so much misinformation on it I really don't know where to start....I ) ID#410198:
trust you are not giving there spin any credit its BS

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:26
FOX-MAN__A (Because of technicals, they're pushing Gold and Silver down according to FWN) ID#288186:
Copyright © 1998 FOX-MAN__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
New York-Aug. 26-FWN--MARKET WATCHERS HAVE LISTED A couple of factors that have
prompted gold and silver futures here to give up their short-covering gains from earlier today.

One trader cited the weakness in the Australian dollar, which has fallen to its lowest level ever against
the U.S. currency--listed on one price screen as 56.49 U.S. cents.

Another pointed to continuing softness in the Commodity Research Bureau Index, seen as a
deflationary sign. He added that technical traders in the silver have resumed their downward push.

Crown and Milleneum were reported sellers of the gold futures during the downward move, a floor
source said.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:23
Gollum (@Gandalf the White ) ID#43185:
Sorry, no flights scheduled til next ides plus half a score,
Zelem will pilot, and we'll see the cat some more.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:23
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Reify...) ID#373284:
Love will win out my very dear friend...uh huh...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:20
truenorth__A (Russian Banking Failure) ID#189268:
( COMTEX ) A: Leading Russian bank loses license
A: Leading Russian bank loses license

MOSCOW, Aug. 26 ( UPI S ) _ The Russian Central Bank ( Wednesday ) has
withdrawn the banking license of Bank Imperial, a move likely to lead
to the bank's collapse. Imperial, one of Russia's largest banks, has
been accused of falsifying its accounts.

*** end of story ***

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:15
Squirrel (Edible commodities) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Perhaps like the stock market and the dollar - how long can this last?
Droughts take their toll, yet we hear of bumper crops.
As livestock producers sell off their stock it will depress meat prices and depress grain demand - which will further depress grain prices.
But grain demand eventually should increase as ever growing numbers of people hoard more food for Y2K & the biblical apocalypse {don't discount them just because we don't agree with their reasons - they are still buying and stocking for years to come}
AT SOME POINT {just like the PMs}
Demand should outstrip supply. But, for now, Walton Feed is saying:
No food storage item is even close to being unavailable because demand has outstripped supply. For the near term, there just isn't going to be a food shortage here in the United States because of underproduction. Of course, it's really hard to say how Y2K will affect this when it actually hits.

Cherokee - I know you went out on a limb. This year - I just don't know.
Next year the dam has to break. But Goldbugs have been saying that about PMs for months or years now. But unlike PMs, other metals and most other commodities for which demand will shrink during a depression - PEOPLE HAVE TO EAT! The system can supply more food as people eat less meat and more grain - but again if we toss in droughts and hoarding...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:11
Silverthorn__A (XAU down) ID#247309:
to all-time low of 5836, off 125, lowest since 1983 ( starting point ) . Hold on to your hats - this ride could be rough.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:10
James (Bugal@We had an old Chief P.O. instructor who used to write on the blackboard) ID#252150:
before every test RTFQ = read the fuc*ing question. My request to you is RTFS = read the fuc*ing statement.

You quoted me as stating that THE worst attrocities were committed in the name of religion.

I actually stated that MANY of the worst attrocities were committed in the name of religion.

Would you settle for--SOME of the worst atrocities?

I should have realized that Religion is such a touchy subject & although my comments were just meant for Alderbich, I will stay away from it in the future.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:08
Gandalf the White (XAU down 2% and not looking good) ID#433301:
XAU just hit 58.25 and is not looking good.
Gollum have you started the new XAU aeroline?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:06
SDRer__A (Inflation, Sugar…One ponders MITA/WorldBank guarantees to Turkey {:-)) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Business World Considers High Inflation
Businessmen determine their 1999 targets according to their
estimations of % 60-75 inflation, not the government's estimation
of % 50. Businessmen agree that especially when the election
process starts, this target is difficult to be reached and presume
that the inflation may be % 60-75, US$ TL 320-340 thousand and
DM TL 180-200 thousand by the end of the year.

Sugar Beet Farmers Protest
107 thousand sugar beet farmers in Amasya, Çorum and Samsun decided not to harvest their crop since Amasya Sugar factory has not made the promised advance payments. Price increase of sugar beet is %50 this year and farmers who are not happy with it, revolted to the delay in payments.
107 370 farmers, members of Sugar Beet Farmers Cooperative, decided not to harvest sugar beet when Amasya Sugar Factory did not give punctually their advances of TL 2 trillion. President of the cooperative Mahmut Demir said that the total product harvested in Amasya, Çorum and Samsun was 1 million ton, which was equal to TL 18 trillion. Demir added that they were not guaranteed that their money would be paid and their contract with the factory was cancelled automatically due to delay in advance payments.

The Senate Hearings url should be:
[There was a period hiding behind htm…Sorry]

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:04
Silverthorn__A (Gold longs heading for the exits) ID#247309:
Sep98 gold at 2856, down $1.30. Dec 280 puts @ 470 10 minutes ago I just got filled @ 580. This is not a good sign. Dec puts expire 11/13. Last night they were at about 440 at the close. If you own physical, it is time to protect the value with these puts. This is not anti-gold - it just makes sense to protect the downside. OK - so gold is going to $600 and I just lost my put premium. The risk of the premium is nothing compared to the risk of the price going down. IMHO.

Ooops, the lights are about to come on - what will we see?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:01
JP (Using standard Gann chart projection) ID#253153:
Having broken the 200 long term support line, my computer simulated software project the CRB to bottom between 25-50 within the next few years.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:00
JP (Using standard Gann chart projection) ID#253153:
Having broken the 200 long term support line, my computer simulated software project the CRB to bottom between 25-50 within the next few years.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:00
sharefin (SDR - good reading (:-)))) ID#284255:
Another one of Jude's letters

Advice to Alan Greenspan

Whipsaw markets
Sell - buy - sell.
This mornings gaps have now been filled.
Selloff time with a late pulback?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 13:00
PMF (D.A. (a.few.notes) ID#7568:) ID#224363:
Always enjoy your comments. You make the trading market seem like a cold-war style war with lots of mystery.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:54
PH in LA (Vronsky: PLEASE FORWARD) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dear John Kutyn:

In your essay at Gold- Eagle of July 16 you write:

Speculating investors are relying ( indeed wishfully hoping ) on central banks to sell gold to cover their SHORT positions. HOWEVER, SHOULD central banks NOT sell gold, there is no identifiable source of gold to cover these SHORT positions - Except, of course, at much higher prices. Speculating investors who expect central banks to sell them gold would do well to first ascertain the ILLOGIC of why central banks would first lend vast amounts of gold ( which drives down the price of gold ) prior to selling the gold. ( Further commentary on this point is beyond the scope of this report. )

You go on to speculate that the Japanese might very well have already and/or be planning to sell dollars and purchase the resultant price-rising gold.

Your point is well taken. I, too have pondered the ILLOGIC of why central banks would first lend vast amounts of gold ( which drives down the price of gold ) prior to selling the gold. Yet central banks would not seem so stupid as to engage in illogical practises. The inescapable conclusion is that a reason does exist.

I first recall reading one of your well-thought-out commentaries at Kitco. This would lead me to believe that you are also aware of the writings of ANOTHER, who also used to post at Kitco. You probably know that his writings can now be found at

My question to you is:

To what extent do you feel that ANOTHER's contention is correct that it is the European Central Banks that have conciously driven down the price of gold through leasing in order to allow it to rise upon the introduction of the Euro to insure the strength of their new currency? Doesn't this fit beautifully with your own analysis? After all, there is very little beyond mere rumors and threats on the part of their officials to suggest that Japan has actually been buying quantities of gold. Yet the Europeans have vast amounts as part of their treasuries. ( Even Spain has huge reserves, perhaps left over from their conquest of the Americas? ) In any case, the actual result would be the same, except that if it is the European CBs we would have some clue as to when the rise in the price of gold should commence.

Thank you for your writings which I have always admired.

Sincerely, PH in LA

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:45
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 26, 1998

IMF's Camdessus meets Russian, Ukrainian leaders

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - The International Monetary Fund's managing director held surprise talks Wednesday with Russian and Ukrainian leaders on the financial crisis gripping Russia and fallout across the region.

An IMF spokesman in Washington said the fund's managing director, Michel Camdessus, was meeting with Russia's acting Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin and Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma in Ukraine's Crimea peninsula, against the backdrop of the deepening crisis and plummeting currencies.

Ukraine's hryvnia has taken a battering in the wake of neighboring Russia's rouble devaluation. What happens in Moscow is critical for Kiev because Russia accounts for about 40 percent of Ukraine's foreign trade.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:41
SDRer__A (Sharefin--Folly, Frenzy, Fear (for which, Thanks) and now,) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

FUN? How 'bout this?
FYI: Y2k Opportunities - The gold standard is another fix that eliminates much of the chaos that would otherwise occur in 2000 when the clock strikes 12 midnight. If the United States were to fix the dollar to gold, say at the end of this year, by the time the clock strikes a year later, every one of the 150 currencies could be plugged into it.>

You can read through prepared testimony from seven different field hearings covering different regions and industries, at

My advice is that in addition to focusing attention on the $1 trillion in private lawsuits,Congress also take note of the gigantic problems governments everywhere will have because of Y2K, and the easiest way to alleviate them: A SIMPLE FLAT TAX SYSTEM AND A DOLLAR/GOLD STANDARD.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:38
JP (the Canadian and Australian people are about to become poverty stricken) ID#253153:
Having sold their gold reserves , the Canadian and Australian currencies have been dropping and are becoming WORTHLESS. With deflation accelerating world wide, the purchasing power of the Canadian and Australian currencies instead of increasing in value , they are declining against the American dollar. What is the solution ? Immediately hike interest rates, cut taxes at the same time and start accumulating gold instead of selling it. These moves will stabilize these currencies and give their governments some time to tackle their structural problems.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:37
sharefin (What's a Numismatic Coin ...and Why You Should NOT Buy Them!) ID#284255:

For those that buy...

As to..

Thanks for all the compliments.
Any good links sugested can easily be added.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:32
Do not take Marshall seriously, he is hopelessy out of date and confused. DOD No longer uses DEFCON to describe the readiness posture. When they did there were 5 Defconlevels Defcon 2 was merely a low grade alert meaining personnel had to keep commanders informed of there location and standby phones. Defcon 4 was Emminate Danger of War Defcon 5 was War. Now we use Threatcon A,B,C,D. D. Is war we are at A which is the same as Defcon 2. I dont know where he gets his info but dont take it too seriously.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:31
The Hatt (Currency Wars About To Begin!!!) ID#369369:
As Dines forcasted gold will not rally until the currency wars begin and we are getting closer everyday!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:30
Gollum (@trader_vic__A ) ID#43185:
I think you will need a Stinger, or Nike, Or Phoenix, or somesuch. Cruise missles are for ground targets.

9000? Can do. Have your missle ready for the week immediately following the ides of September. All of Gollum's pilots will be on vacation then.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:28
looks more like Aeroflop Airlines to me. Fire the crew and call in Cheesehead and Puetz.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:28
APH (Trading) ID#255226:
Jims - Here are my trades over the last few days:

Wheat Dec - B - 272, S - 278.5

Silver Dec - B - 510, stopped 508
B - 511, stopped 507
Long from 503

SnP Sept S - 1097.50 stopped 1103.00
S - 1109.00 B - 1082.00
B - 1082.00 S - 1095.00
Short from 1095.00

Coffee Dec This trade was posted in advance
Long 108.50
other orders were not filled may have to file a complaint

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:28
APH (Trading) ID#255226:
Jims - Here are my trades over the last few days:

Wheat Dec - B - 272, S - 278.5

Silver Dec - B - 510, stopped 508
B - 511, stopped 507
Long from 503

SnP Sept S - 1097.50 stopped 1103.00
S - 1109.00 B - 1082.00
B - 1082.00 S - 1095.00
Short from 1095.00

Coffee Dec This trade was posted in advance
Long 108.50
other orders were not filled may have to file a complaint

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:28
D.A. (a.few.notes) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

There have been some very interesting rumblings in the precious metals and currency markets this morning. One rumor that meandered over the wires had to do with a liquidity shortage in the Saudi banking system. This rumor occured in congruence with another rumor about the freezing of assets of Bin Laden and others. Coincidentally ( ? ) these rumors began at about the time that gold spiked upwards, in the face of further collapses in the Austrailian and Canadian dollars. There is some very strange ( *&^ going on here.

Speaking of strange, our good old friend from PEI was apparently in the Access market last night sweeping down the silver. On cue, someone came along and bid it back in his face. I get the feeling that there are some very personal things going on.

It sure looks like gold and silver should collapse into a pit of despair given what is going on about. It is actually remarkable that they are holding on. Copper and Lumber are also just kind of sitting around.

A few weeks back I commented on the possibility that a rising gold price would put pressure on Aussie miners who have large hedge positions. With the Australian dollar disappearing at an alarming rate, some bullion banks could be getting very nervous about their outstanding loans. The bizarre scenario where rising gold prices bankrupt gold mining companies is not quite as bizarre as it was a few weeks back.

US money supply, after growing relatively slowly over the late spring and early summer, is once again in rapid expansion mode. At the same time, treasury holding of foreign CB's is on the decline.

Once the contagion deals a serious blow to a country where there is a lot of US bank exposure ( Mexico! ) the dollar's days of strength may come to a screeching halt. In the for what its worth department, our currency system is long a medium quantity of Yen. Since we are trend followers, this amounts to a statement that the Yen has been one of the better performing currencies in our world over the past months.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:27
APH (Trading) ID#255226:
Jims - Here are my trades over the last few days:

Wheat Dec - B - 272, S - 278.5

Silver Dec - B - 510, stopped 508
B - 511, stopped 507
Long from 503

SnP Sept S - 1097.50 stopped 1103.00
S - 1109.00 B - 1082.00
B - 1082.00 S - 1095.00
Short from 1095.00

Coffee Dec This trade was posted in advance
Long 108.50
other orders were not filled may have to file a complaint

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:11
kitkat (C$/US$ .6396/1.5625) ID#208393:
US$ is ballooning! Where will the stampede go when it bursts?
There is only one exit left.
It's Cheesehead time!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:09
trader_vic__A (Gollum Airlines) ID#372228:'re right, cocoa and cotton and hanging on...there must be a well dressed sweet tooth out there the way, I need to ask a favor...could you get Gollum airlines to get this market to 9000 feet so that I could fire one of those cruise missiles ( short position ) at the market. PS...the air doesn't get thin until 10,000 feet. I think Abbey Cohen has tried to climb Mt. Everest one to many times.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:09
Gollum (DOW -39) ID#43185:
Yes, by George! She really HAS got it!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:09
2BR02B? (Gordon GKO gets good greenbacks) ID#266105:

''Banks do have rubles now,'' said Irina Yasina, a central bank spokeswoman. ''We returned to them part of their mandatory reserves, hoping that they would settle with their depositors, with each other,
and effect clients' payments. But things took a different turn. Banks channeled the money to the currency markets.''

Brunswick Warburg, an investment firm, reported that the central bank had pumped more than 12 billion rubles into the banking system over the last three days to bolster banks, rather than let some of them go under.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:01
JohnC__A (A$ Record Low as we watch) ID#24864:
July 86 Record Low was 0.5710. ( Was in a dealing room working that day )
It's just been broken: trading at 0.5682 US cents per Australian dollar. That makes Gold around A$499 per ounce. We watch and wait.
Bye the way Nick ( sharefin ) Great resource page. @Sunny_Brisbane

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:01
kitkat (Canadians - How are you protecting your investments?) ID#208393:
American money funds seemed to be the only safe haven recently, and the only thing in my bag of goodies that is going up. What about the equity in your home? The 10% currency decrease has taken a big chunk out of that also. At least with inflation, we were somewhat protected. THIS is much worse!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 12:00
chas (ALL) ID#147201:
Bonnie looks like a wipe out from Wilmington to Hatteras

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:56
Gollum (@Pete) ID#43185:
What network of clandestine agents would you say is the best and most well financed in the world today? Certainly not the CIA, KGB, NSA, MI5, FBI, and such. The Mosad?

Well they probably don't even have a name, and even if they did, if they were any good you would never have heard of them.

I doubt they would carry any sort of ID, but if they did I would bet it would have a red shield embossed on it.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:56
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 26, 1998

Loonie falls more than a third of a cent

TORONTO ( CP ) -- The Canadian dollar came under relentless selling pressure today, falling nearly four tenths of a cent to 64.16 cents US on North American currency markets.

Russia appears to be going through a financial meltdown right now, and don't forget it has one of the highest stockpiles of nuclear warheads in the world.

A lot of people are very nervous in terms of how they evaluate financial risk. Also, the notion that Russia may be dumping more commodities and putting more downward pressure on commodity prices is not good news for the dollar.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:56
Leland (From a True American Patriot - Read Grabbe's Morning Edition) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:54
Ronald Jett__A (Xau low) ID#413119:
We just broke a record low set back on July 25th 1986 of 58.72 intra-day. Anyone got an idea what's next?

Also, any opinions on this article about gold/silver.....

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:50
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 26, 1998

European markets go down with Russian chill

LONDON ( Reuters ) - A chill descended on European markets Wednesday as Russia reeled from a plunging rouble, a banking system close to collapse, and an evaporation of investor confidence after its debt restructuring.

Wall Street opened with losses of around 1 percent in a broad sell-off, then went lower still, compounding falls in European stock markets indices of 2 percent to 3.5 percent.

Between Russia and ongoing fears of Asia, it almost seems as if the end of the world is going to happen, said Peter Cardillo, director of research at Westfalia Investments.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:49
Selby (Monica's Credit card.) ID#286230:
Has anyone seen this story on the web and if so please post the URL.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:46
tsclaw (@ALL) ID#327123:
For those who missed it last evening I suggest you take a look at JEIL's chart work at He sure has an uncanny grasp of what has been and what is coming at us.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:46
Gollum (@PH in LA ) ID#35571:
RJ is very perceptive, moreso than most. If we see any sort of rally before the BIG one, it will be just as he says, a bull trap.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:40
PH in LA () ID#225408:

Just got caught up with last night's posts. Made me very nervous seeing references to $4.89, etc. and was almost afraid to look. Any more of these downdrafts ( clear air turbulance? ) and there will be margin calls to contend with. What thinks ye of RJ's warning of a bear trap set at $5.50 before the real rally can begin? Or is it up, up, and away from here?

Keep up the good work!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:37
Squirrel (Goldbugs and Silverbugs - a new definition for them) ID#280214:
Like bees gathering pollen and nectar, molecule size hunter-gatherers probing the waste-dumps and ore-bodies of the world to bring home the Gold and Silver. Within several years some outfit will implement this technology for this purpose. As an indication of its progress there is now an entire section on nanotechnology at Yahoo.

Question: since Silver never goes away - it just gets spread around.
How much Silver is there above ground - the total that is recoverable?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:37
chas (Silverbaron re quotes) ID#147201:
Many thanx Tom- a big help.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:37
6pak () ID#335190:
August 26, 1998

FOCUS-Rouble melts down, central bank ends support

MOSCOW, Aug 26 ( Reuters ) - Russia's rouble plunged more than 40 percent against the German mark on Wednesday and the bewildered central bank declared it could no longer afford to intervene to support the battered currency.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:35
JTF (The mists are clearing) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: So -- RJ is going long on gold bullion, Russia is still imploding, with South America not far behind. Canada next? Are we going to get to $0.50 US per Canadian dollar? I hope not -- but the rolling devaluations are not stopping for anyone. Perhaps Gollum is right -- that Gold equities will not wait much longer before they go up.

Anyone wonder why Kenneth Starr is smiling like a Chesire cat these days, and WJC is in hiding? Perhaps Monica's credit card bill being reimbursed by the White House has something to do with it. Can you imagine the arrogance of that -- and he should know about the information revolution -- that such things as a credit card bill are practically public information. Looks like Big Brother is watching alright, but it is Big Brother himself who lost -- this time. Notice how the Democrats now want impeachment proceedings ( minority leader in House or Senate said that today -- IMHO ) , but the Republicans don't? I wonder why?

So -- I'll bet Kenneth Starr has enough WJC illegal activity for Congress to go forward with impeachment -- FBI files or no.

Any guess what the markets will do when this gets out? You can forget about Dow 10,000. Any 'flight to safety' will be neutralized by WJC's folding fortunes.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:30
Silverbaron (chas @ junk silver bags) ID#289357:


Jefferson Coin & Bullion ( 800 ) 877-8847.

The top 3 U.S. junk silver coin dealers from an old Gold & Silver Report ( 1996 ) survey were:

F.J. Vollmer ( 800 ) 447-8368
Bill Youngerman ( 800 ) 327-5010
Dillon Gage ( 800 ) 375-4653


I assume these are still competitive.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:27
Leland (Go, Go, Go G.I.'s - Burn Some CNN Britches) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:25
oris (Mike Sheller) ID#238422:
Mike, your idea on backing up ruble with vodka
is very interesting and amazingly simple to understand.
Unfortunately, in this case ruble assets will be
drinkable, which means Russia will fall into
hyperinflation the next day this change from
ruble to buble ( ruble backed by vodka ) is announced...

However, I took it upon myself to send wire to Kremlin,
to Uncle Boris, offering him this idea for consideration.
I know for sure that Kremlin is already excited...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:23
Gollum (@trader_vic__A ) ID#35571:
Awwww, Cocoa and Cotton aren't doing badly.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:22
Squirrel (Gold demand vs. supply) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Lefty Kiwi - your reading of the Gold Supply vs. World Population is why I naively bought Gold last year. Then the POG commenced to sink and sink.
Nevertheless I still think that demand will eventually have to be reckoned with. There is only enough Gold for two dozen 10-grain coins per person. See my post of: Wed Jul 22 1998 02:17

RJ - Sutherland said There you go again, makin' with those negative waves. or something pretty close to that. It was Negative Waves.

Anybody here from Duke_A?
It should be getting pretty nasty there by now.
Though I think Bonnie is coming ashore somewhat south.
But she will sweep the entire Carolina coast before she is done.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:17
trader_vic__A (Commodities) ID#372228:
Red across the board for commodities...They're headed for zero!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:14
SDRer__A (OH?) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Tuesday August 25, 1998
Australian Financial Reveiw

US switches partners in Asian diplomatic dance
China Observed, By Rowan Callick

The significance of President Clinton's visit to China in June has been temporarily obscured by a sex scandal involving a stained, much-handled dress. But in global, historical terms, the visit is still considerably more significant than any presidential dalliance with the mesmeric
Monica Lewinsky.

Body language means a lot, of course, in this White House - as it always has in China's imperial halls too. And the impact of the China visit and its images and vocabulary, is only now beginning to become apparent.

For one result of the visit is that the US is - in informal
relationships, though not yet in formal treaty terms -
making China its prime partner in Asia, replacing Japan.

Although the US two months ago intervened to help shore up a collapsing yen, this was driven as much by self-interest as by a sense of friendship and partnership.

A clearer message was sent by the President's decision to over-fly Japan, America's principal regional ally for half a century, en route for his week's stay in China.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:13
Servhard (@lefty from NZ......the sun is shinig but...) ID#287193:
the markets are cloudy on this fine day.---Welcome to the Goldbug-tavern!
To give an one ounce goldcoin to every poor in the world would require how many rich people? How many ounces?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:13
Gollum (@PH_in_LA) ID#35571:
Hey man, you watching this? I've got spot silver at 5.09. Thats up 13¢ from the lows.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:10
Test (Chase Manhattan plans for Euro) ID#374235:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:10
Suspicious (BREAKING NEWS / SOMEONE paid off ) ID#287312:
$ 11,000.00 in credit card debt for Monica in December.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:07
Gollum (DOW -79) ID#35571:
By George! I think she's got it!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 11:00
Gollum (@HopeFull ) ID#35571:
We need to watch the closing prices, never mind the shenanigans of the neoteric internet day trader crowd, and see if they stay on chart.

Assuming that they do, then yes, the IPO will have a problem.

But then Goldman may have much much worse things to think about by then.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:56
Frustrated (Leland) ID#298259:
Thanks, off to buy.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:55
xau5 (xau5) ID#210163:
It would seem that russia has taken the creditors to the woodshed and this is the FIRST sign that gold and commodities will rally. WHY? The fear that the market has been operating under is that to pay their bills creditors will sell assets to pay for loans made with US dollars.
Hence the CRB has collapsed and so has gold. IF the russians stiff their creditors and keep their assets then there is no pressure on gold but there is a lot of pressure on money and the dollars.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:52
Leland (@Frustrated) ID#316193:
golden eagles are sealed in plastic as they come from the mint.
If you open, just remember to handle with fingers on the edges.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:51
sharefin (Email Chatter) ID#284255:
//Y2k Weatherman Report #63//

Today's post is another article from Randy Flink of Championship
Financial Advisors. Background on Randy can be found at:


// Y2k Financial Asset Protection //

Anticipating When The Enemy Will Strike
by Randy Flink

In my last discussion, entitled Scoping Out the Y2k Enemy, I
identified a host of different financial and economic scenarios which
could result from Y2k disruptions. The conclusion was that you must
gear your personal financial preparations for as many of these
scenarios as you think relevant.

[Scoping Out the Y2k Enemy is archived on Y2k Watch at]

There is only so much sand in the Y2k hourglass before the dreaded
hour arrives. However, it is unwise to assume that you have until
December 31, 1999 to get your house in order. Here is why. In July,
President Clinton gave his first public address on Y2k. In his
carefully crafted speech, the President intentionally hit a few panic
buttons but nevertheless assured us that THE US GOVT WILL BE READY BY
MARCH 31, 1999.

If you do your homework on the state of Y2k systems remediation within
the various US Government agencies, you quickly will come to the
conclusion that the President's March 31, 1999 deadline is completely
unachievable. When April 1, 1999 rolls around and the US Government
is not in a state of Y2k readiness, the air raid sirens will be
activated by such Y2k awareness advocates as Senator Bennett,
Congressman Horn, Presidential Candidate Forbes, and Y2k panic will
start to set in. The news media will accentuate this panic with their
tabloid headlines and TV sound bites. The talk show hosts are likely
to follow suit.

So, your real window of Y2k preparedness can be expected to remain
relatively wide open until March 31, 1999. Then, it will slowly close
in the ensuing months as the media coverage builds and builds as
reporters themselves realize that they are just as unprepared and
vulnerable as anyone else. The window of preparedness will
permanently close when the US Government senses that too many people
are withdrawing their money from the banking system, and that the
threat of bank runs is omnipresent. We can only guess at the US
Government's response to this perceived threat. My personal bet is
that at some critical juncture, the US Government will introduce
currency rationing and declare the private hoarding or stockpiling of
essential commodities as very unpatriotic.

My greater fear is that the US Government ( and every other government
in the world ) will flood the banks and their ATM machines with
unprecedented inventories of banknotes in order to allay fears of
currency shortages and insolvent banks, giving us a serious dose of
hyper-inflation. For a guideline on how to safeguard your financial
assets from Y2k disruptions, see the Y2k Personal Insurance Plan
archived on Y2k Watch. ( This article was last updated on 8-6-98 with
information on the reduced investment minimums for US Treasury bills
and shorter-term notes. ) My recommended Y2k Personal Insurance Plan
can be found at:


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:49
Gollum (@JTF ) ID#35571:
Perhaps sooner than you think.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:47
HopeFull (GOLLUM...I am lloking at your 43 Year Seasonal MRCI graph.....) ID#402148:
and detect a problem. Do you think Goldman will do it's IPO in the bad coming Nov. environment projected ( probably not ) ?

How will they alter the chart to make it fit THEIR needs ( and they will ) ?

This implies they may be damaging the market noe to make it rise in the 4th quarter perhaps?



Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:47
Gollum (@Pete ) ID#35571:
Methinks China is not that big a problem....

As for Islam, there are many Casablanka and Viennas of intrigue in the world today. Strange happenings in dingy hotels and little known dust spots here and there. Methinks things are being taken care of.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:47
JTF (How well does your spacesuit work?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gollum: Ever piloted a spaceship? My guess is that we will need your expert guidance for a Gold bullion suborbital shakeout sometime in the spring of 1999, provided that the currency meltdowns and debt crises have ended. CRY0 should have bottomed by then.

My only thoughts about now versus 1929 is that we are now net debtors. We do not have the cash cushion that held up the Japanese deflation for nearly 10 years. I don't have a clue regarding how quickly our tightly coupled, debt encumbered economy will fold up during a severe recession. If we have a debt implosion -- or a close call, the US dollar would tank, and gold bullion would rise.

My guess is that the scenario will resemble 1929 at first as our markets and economy spiral down. But -- if we reach a critical point of no return that not even AG can fix -- our monetary velocity will plummet. Then the US dollar will head south, with rising interest rates and rising gold bullion prices.

So -- my intuitive guess is that deflation will come first ( al la 1929 ) . But when our debt problems catch up with us, we are more likely to emulate Indonesia than the USA in 1929. When gold bullion starts to rise, we will be in very serious trouble indeed. Partially because it will mean that AG and RR have thrown in the towel.

It is still possible that we could squeak by this one, and make it to our next big crisis when the baby boomers retire. But -- I doubt it.

As I know from structural failure analysis -- the precise breaking point when the dollar collapses and gold skyrockets is unknowable -- too many unknowns. Just keep most of your powder dry, because the best part of the gold bug Tsunami will be after the US dollar tanks.

Notice Mexico is down another 5% today?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:47
chas (Silverbaron re quotes) ID#147201:
Have you got Jefferson coin's 800? Any other dealer you know competitive re junk silver bags? Many thanx- somehow I lost mine, must be Bonnie!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:44
The Hatt (The cards are beginning to collapse!) ID#369369:
Should another card drop today we could see the first signs of panic....

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:44
panda (2BR02B?) ID#30116:
You must've been working on my house... :- ) )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:43
hugo () ID#402151:

look maw the stock market went way down an gold went way up. maybe I should call them guys whuts advertisin gold on the radio. they say the stock market is goin down a lot more

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:42
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Auric -- Weather starting to come ashore around Wilmington. They 'claim' storm is to come ashore and then make an abrupt turn to the north and then to the north east. Perhaps. At least I'm not too near the coast, not that Fran two years ago was particularly pleasant anyway. Lots and lots of power out for many days. Trees down everywhere. Cash only at stores that still had anything anybody wanted. HOT and no ice. All was simply 'swell'!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:42
Gollum (@Allen(USA) ) ID#43185:
A buck!? No, THAT flight is for Zelem in mid to late September, and it will be a humdinger. Methinks MORE than a buck.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:41
miles__A (sharefin's page) ID#344236:
For an ex-sailor, you're a smart, fully qualified, serious computer geek!
Congratulations. Well done!
Wisdom is knowing what to do, Virtue is doing it
Chinese proverb

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:41
Realistic (Calmer waters ahead?) ID#410194:
Woldwide anxiety is now just about to abate. For a while anyway. ( and maybe for a long time? )

It will be good for Gold, Silver and Platinum.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:40
lefty kiwi__A () ID#32176:
longtime lurker .....burning the midnight oil in New Zealand......
two points
1. if gold is maintaining its price at 41250 yen per oz , does this mean it is the Japanese who are stocking up on gold ?

2. if we have 5,500,000,000 people in the world and 85,000 tonnes of gold how can gold ever become a circulated and held ( in coins ) currency , by my mathematics there is not enough of the yellow metal for us all to have a wedding ring let alone lots of coins in everyones pockets .......comments please .

ps... got gold and want more .

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:39
Gollum (DOW -110) ID#43185:
Well, she's doing ok. Wings are still on. A little wobbly. I suspect except for a few ups and downs it's going to be a lot like a milder version of Friday. Might even finish up at the close.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:39
Frustrated (question in buying gold coins...?) ID#298259:
I'm looking at making my first purchase of gold coins today.
My question is...when buying a roll of gold coins - American
Eagles, are they each individually sealed? Is this something I
should be concerned with.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:38
Realistic (@Sharefin ) ID#410194:

I disagree with your doom and gloom scenarios but I find that you are an extremely generous individual.

Your earlier message of 9:34 proves it.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:37
Realistic (@Realistic) ID#410194:

I disagree with your doom and gloom scenarios but I find that you are an extremely generous individual.

Your earlier message of 9:34 proves it.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:35
Allen(USA) (Gollum) ID#246224:
I would appreciate it if you could jam that Ag lever and bring us up by a buck. My posterior has been dragging on the ground for the past few months and its starting to hurt a little bit. Please? TIA

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:35
Auric (Eldorado) ID#240288:

Eldorado--Any weather updates? Hurricane Bonnie looks like it could be real nasty. Hope you're keeping low!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:35
Gollum (It's always a bullish sign when Kitco quits updating) ID#43185:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:34
lefty (testing) ID#32176:
longtime lurker .....burning the midnight oil

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:34
Gollum (Standby....) ID#43185:
The levers are in place.

Ph_LA, here we go again. The last time I tried this we only got 2¢ out of Ag. Let's see if I can do better.

I have to go see how the rookie is doing.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:31
Pete (Gollum-08:24-Thoughts of a madman?) ID#222231:
Copyright © 1998 Pete/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The power of the Rothschilds and their octopus of international bankers is beyond comprehension. Noone knows about them except by legend because of the extremes they go to in order to remain secret. This fact alone should alert all to their cunning and ability to capture the world.

The article gives true meaning and understanding of the policies enacted by the Rothschilds in the past and is continuous to this day. Their policies of creating wars, panics, installing politicians that do their bidding, creating the fiat money systems under their control that keep major governments paying retribution for usary by taxation of the dumbfounded masses over the many generations is ongoing at this very moment.

Is it any wonder that currencies are collapsing world wide, commodities are tanking, especially gold, the one last threat to the fiat money system they engineered and have in place working to their benefit.

If anyone doubts who and what is behind the machinations that have occurred in the past and today in the markets has only to look to the Rothschilds and their cohorts.

Bet your bottom dollar that they are waiting in the wings to make the mother of all coups for their final conquest of a one world government and currency.


1 ) Islam and China are the only remaining forces that they do not TOTALLY CONTROL.

2 ) A war will be waged against Islam. This is in the works right now.

3 ) Next will be China.

4 ) A world wide currency crises is developing with the dollar as the final currency that will fall.

5 ) The worlds masses will howl and cry for a fix to the world monatary crises.

6 ) The powers that be ( Rothschilds ) will give them what they beg and yearn for, a one world currency.

For anyone to ignore or dismiss what happened after Waterloo as a one time occurence and not the start of their grab of world wide power is naive. FIRST A GOVERNMENT, THEN THE WORLD. What will be left for them to conquer? The universe, after all they will have conquered humanity and the world. EVEN GOLD WILL NOT HELP US. IMHO.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:31
Frustrated (sharefin) ID#298259:
To the one who shares...Thanks from someone who cares. I
found your links quite tidy.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:30
miles__A (auric/sharefin) ID#344236:
Sorry about delay in replying. Because of my addictive personality have limited myself to 2 hours cyber access a day which I share with kidz and their homework. Have had to wait but it's now midnight in the city of churches. My time starts again...luckily kidz are asleep..
sharefin; the car is warm, ready to go and explore the Mclaren Vale and Barossa with you....auric....I know you'll love it here.
Greetings from the post millenium paradise

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:30
Gollum (@Year2000) ID#43185:
Ah yes, 1929, here's some of the inner workings:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:29
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
gold again moving in the same direction as the dollar. More and more fear out there in paper land! Some of it seems to be finding its way into gold.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:29
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

Panda/Fixing up, 'This Old House', is becoming a drag...


Yup. Windows, doors, siding, trim. Out goes the old
wood divided single panes and in goes the double insulated
vinyls. Two story, gets exciting. Everything's going in
plumb and square but of course nothing else is so it's
double taper everything-- wider and thicker at one end
than another. The ol' Rockwell jointer ( '47 ) is getting
quite a workout. The Craftsman tablesaw, '58. Shopsmith,
'61 anniversary model. Good stuff : )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:24
Dow topped at 9367! Buy gold. Sell Dow. It's a no-brainer!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:23
6pak (healing Asia, by printing more money to cause inflation. @ do something radical (Recession)?) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 26, 1998

U.S. economist recommends steps for healing Asia

SINGAPORE ( AP ) -- A prominent U.S. economist said Wednesday that the IMF's economic reforms aren't working in Asia and that the region should try to stimulate its battered economies by printing more money to cause inflation.

The time has come to do something radical, said Paul Krugman, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economics professor who gained some renown by predicting Asia's demise before its bubble burst and the crisis began a year ago.

Krugman said the International Monetary Fund bailout program, which includes large aid packages and painful economic reforms, has not worked in countries such as Indonesia, South Korea and Thailand.

He said a severe recession is now spreading across the entire region and what Asia needs is inflation with increased liquidity. He recommended putting more money into circulation, especially in Japan, to encourage inflation and lower interest rates. Krugman said the value of the yen should be allowed to fall even further against the U.S. dollar.

Currently, he said, Japan's monetary policy is trying to prevent the yen from falling further, regardless of whether or not that helps the nation's economy.

Krugman said his remedies would boost consumer spending and growth.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:23
Leland (Charts - Showing Gold Doing What It's Supposed to Do (And Today It Is)) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:23

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:19
Gollum (rookie) ID#43185:
I sure hope rookie remembered to fasten her seatbelt ( at least there aren't any passengers ) . Rookies always tend to overcompensate so it might be kind of a roller coaster up there.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:15
Gollum (Check out the quote at ID#43185:
The possession of gold has ruined fewer men than lack of it. -Thomas Bailey Aldridge, 1903

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:15
Year2000 (1929 Again?) ID#222107:
Anyone read about the late 1920's.. hey some of you might be old enough to remember those good old days!

Apparently the overseas markets went down first. Many investors fled to the US dollar and the US markets for safety. Sound familiar?

Also in the 1920's they had a exciting new technology that made trading much easier: the telephone. Why investors no longer had to wait days/weeks to have their transactions processed by mail. They could just phone their trades in to a broker. Sound familiar?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:13
panda (John Disney__A) ID#30116:
Was it the recycled remains of the dud cruise missle fired at Afghanastan? You know what happens when the U.S. gets a Lefty trying to use gunboat diplomacy... :- ) )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:13
Gollum (@vronsky ) ID#43185:
What makes you think we will be GOING into the millenium?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:07
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The Writing is now on the wall for all to clearly see. Financial and currency meltdowns in Asia for nearly a year. The Chinese yuan ( renminbi ) on the verge of devaluation. Stock markets worldwide beginning to tank… following Wall Street's lead to the Bear's Lair. I read somewhere this week that more than 70% of ALL stocks listed on the NYSE are DOWN already 30% in value this year… if that's not a full-blown BEAR MARKET, pray tell, WHAT IS?!

Over-night the Russian rouble crumbles 69%. And as sharfin so aptly observes:

Russian central bank voids rouble/dollar trade; People are also withdrawing en masse their rouble and dollar savings from banks,''

Then you have the Japanese LTCB Bank being exposed to $US347 odd billion in derivatives gone bad.

The dominos are toppling, Knocking each other over at an ever increasing speed.

Watch out below. Globex crashed 10 pts in one hour.

International Market analyst John Kutyn has been warning for some time about the reckoning to come as fallout from the ASIAN CONTAGION. Unfortunately, it's just beginning. Mr. Kutyn's latest report demonstrates a complete understanding of where the world's economy has been, is, and will inescapably and painfully be going.

Kutyn continues to view GOLD as the Noah's Ark to material salvation.

His report KEYS OF THE KINGDOM may be read at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters en of the word golden before pasting the URL to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:07
John Disney__A (the stupid bomb ..) ID#24135:
at the waterfront ..
knocked 8 % off the market..

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:05
panda (Tortfeasor) ID#30116:
The sun came out, cooked up some recently fallen moisture, and now the clouds are back! One problem that I have... the prices on the gold stocks just got better this A.M. If you're a buyer that's good, otherwise...

I just got off of the phone with a few contract agencies ( high tech temps and all... ) that I deal with, and to a word they all said the same thing, It's been awful quite out there, must be vacations during August, not many job reqs coming in. We expect more in September... I hope so. Fixing up, 'This Old House', is becoming a drag... GO GOLD AND OIL!!!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 10:02
sharefin (Lady Bug - Mtn Bear - My pleasure) ID#284255:
It's what I have been adding to daily.
Not tidy but functional.

Lots of links to some great sites.
Charts at the bottom.
Some need work but the basics are there.
Slowly it will evolve and improve.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:58
Gollum (puff! puff!) ID#43185:
I just ran back up here to check on how my little nudge of the gold and silver levers did. Hmmmmnnnn, that seems to be in the right direction.

What do you say we have a fine old fashioned PM rally?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:54
Mtn Bear (SE) (@sharefin) ID#347267:
Namaste' .... You are fantastic!! All owe you a debt which will never be able to be repaid... what a site for sources. THANKS!!!!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:53
Tortfeasor (Panda) ID#37463:
We better not be feeling each other's pain too much or Ken Star will be taking a look at us. The pain of dollar cost averaging. Ouch. Ooh! Yeow! No Mas! No Mas! Go Gold!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:49
Max_Moseley (@The Canadian Dollar) ID#270221:
All: It is very difficult for people who do not live here to appreciate the incandescent incompetence of our Federal Government. As quoted from The Canadian Press Prime Minister Jean Chretien reiterated that it's not his job to rescue the plunging loonie. Its his job he said, referring to Gordon Thiessen, the governor of the Bank of Canada.
We have continued to elect people like this for the last thirty years: but what can one expect from an electorate who mostly really do think that their brain surgery is free!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:46
lady_bug (sharefin) ID#320202:
......what a site, many thanks, it's a shortcut on my desktop !!
You are goooooooooood !

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:46
Gollum (rookie) ID#43185:

One of the reasons we let the rookie fly today is 1 ) We couldn't find any passengers to fly today, 2 ) None of the experienced pilots wanted to go up, 3 ) Rookies need to learn sometime, and 4 ) We finally got our insurance renewed ( they had a rookie insurance salesman working ) .

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:45
sharefin (Miles) ID#284255:
You must like all the holy shrines
As well all the red & white wines.
Up into the hills on the weekends
Sniffing out the good bottles?

Will be in Adelaide for xmas
Visiting the inlaws
Send us an email...
We could always quaff a few.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:34
Mtn Bear (SE) (Today's flight) ID#347267:
Mr. G, where did Ms. newbie aviatrix get her flight US Navy submariner's school

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:34
sharefin (Web site with links and charts - markets and Y2k) ID#284255:
Practise improves the soul.
And keeps one out of trouble.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:32
Auric (miles_A) ID#240288:

Spent some cyber time in Adelaide yesterday. Looks like a great place to live.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:31
Mtn Bear (SE) (Market) ID#347267:
Maria sez Down across the board ---- one positive: money is still coming into this market.... CNBC

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:31
panda (The skies begin to clear....) ID#30116:
And the rain appears to be subsiding. So off to work I must go! This old house awaits.... :- ( Besides, who wants to watch this pestilence anyhow? Working in high humidty and heat is so much more fun.............NOT!


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:29
trader_vic__A (Gollum @ 7:51) ID#372228:
Copyright © 1998 trader_vic__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You are exactly correct about the dollar velocity and the FED having all the's all in treasuries thru-out the world...but will come home here real Japan, China, Germany, et el need the money, they will be dumping those T-Bonds fast and furious...matter of fact, they have already started.

And yes the money supply is up and will continue to be UP, we are addicted to spending in this counrty and the politicians want the party to continue...could you imagine being the politician who bankrupt the dippies...unthinkable. But beware!!! As the world currencies continue to devalue, they will not have anymore money left to buy US T-Bonds and the FED will be forced to start buying its' own treasuries, thus throwing more cash into the US machine and not the world machine. This is one of the things which will cause the change in the inflation rate. As we all know, inflation is a result of printing excess any; bonds.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:25
panda (MoReGoLd, Gollum) ID#30116:
The investors lament, If I only had more money to buy stocks with....

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:25
miles__A (@auric/adelaide) ID#344236:
After having lived in Tangier, Gibraltar, Jerez, London, Paris and Sydem\ney, visited about 30 countries around the world, I settled in Adelaide. It's the best kept secret in the world!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:24
Avalon (Fly the friendly skies of Gollum Airlines; reservations can) ID#254269:
be made by calling 1-800-GO-GOLLUM. Mention you are a member of Kitco and be eligible for additional discounts on your fare.
Arrival at your destination is not guaranteed.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:22
Auric (once more) ID#240288:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:22
Gollum (panda ) ID#43185:
Ah, but it is a fine day for buying, yes?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:21
panda (MoReGoLd -- ) ID#30116:
and when the dollar melts, we can trade the funny colored paper betwixt us, no? :- ) )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:21
MoReGoLd (@REMEMBER, Cohen, Batapagllia and Garzerelli Say---- BUY BUY BUY) ID#348286:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Asian stocks stumble, hobbled by economic anxiety

By Sonali Verma

SINGAPORE, Aug 26 ( Reuters ) - Domestic worries and anxiety over the global economic outlook hobbled Asian stocks on Wednesday, pushing some markets to record lows while others managed to limp higher.

A new dramatic slide in the Russian rouble, which fell 69 percent against the mark on Wednesday, came after most Asian markets had closed.

In Taipei, stocks fell to a fresh 20-month low as early gains evaporated amid persistent anxiety over Taiwan's economy. The benchmark index closed down 94 points at 6,814.33.

``By mid-session, investors started to sell stocks again as pessimism over listed companies' first-half profits weighed in,'' said Taiwan Securities Investment vice-president Joseph Chiou.

In Tokyo, the benchmark Nikkei average fell 206.90 points to 14,866.03 on concerns that political wrangling would stall plans to right the country's ailing banking system, and the yen lost ground.

In Thailand, the SET index slid to a new 11-year low as investors remained cautious about the Russian political situation and other emerging markets.

``The activity was quite low as many investors have slowed down their investment to watch developments,'' said Phaibool Rachniyom at ABN Amro Asia Securities.

The Nikkei's decline, the weak yen and a domestic parliamentary debate on financial reforms also dampened market sentiment, brokers said. The SET composite index fell 2.72 points, or 1.18 pct, to 227.50.

In Sydney, traders mulled the gloomy international outlook and a swiftly sinking Australian dollar. The benchmark All Ordinaries index fell 19.7 points to 2,608 on Wednesday after the Australian dollar touched a 12-year low of US$0.5739.

Hong Kong shares also closed lower after succumbing to profit-taking, with less active buying by the government than in previous days, brokers said.

The Hang Seng Index lost 55.69 points to finish at 7,834.40. Turnover stayed high at HK$9.38 billion against Tuesday's HK$9.92 billion.

The Hang Seng's drop weighed down Shenzhen's hard currency B share index, which dipped 0.42 point to 56.28 on turnover of HK$10 million compared with Tuesday's HK$11.8 million.

Shanghai's hard currency B shares also closed sharply lower, pushed down by foreign selling of market leader Zhejiang Southeast Electric Power Co ( 900949.SS ) , brokers said. The B share index lost 1.319 points to 27.562.

Concerns over China's slowing economy amid recent flooding and weak interim results added to the market's unhappy mood.

The Philippines' 30-stock composite index closed 23.17 points down at 1,287.02 on expectations the government would announce weak first-half gross national product growth, and traders warned of heavy selling if GNP contracted or stayed flat.

In Jakarta, the composite index closed down 6.22 points at 360.93 points on turnover estimated at 248 billion rupiah, sliding with falls in Telkom and Indosat, dealers said.

Elsewhere in Asia, speculators drove up share prices.

In Seoul, stocks finished more than two percent higher, buoyed by foreign interest and futures-linked arbitrage buying, brokers said.

But selling pressure at the 320 level was expected to cap any further rise on Thursday, they said.

The Korea Stock Exchange composite stock price index ended up 7.33 points at 317.56, although losers edged out risers 392 to 388, with 93.22 million shares changing hands.

In Singapore, investors speculated on the composition of the new key stock market index, pushing the 30-share Straits Times Industrials Index up 1.59 percent to 925.85 points.

In Malaysia, shares closed nearly unchanged after the country's largest bank, Maybank recovered. The stock closed two cents lower at 3.02 ringgit after slipping to a low of 2.84 ringgit a day after reporting an unexpectedly sharp fall in profit.

Kuala Lumpur's benchmark Composite Index closed 0.32 point up at 324.49.

In Sri Lanka, the Colombo all-share index rose 10.5 points to 515.7 after local buying drove up most blue chips, brokers said.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:20
Auric (Hong Kong in Recession) ID#240288:

Report says 2nd quarter growth will be down 5%-6%, 2nd straight quarter of negative growth.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:20
Mtn Bear (SE) (Bloop) ID#347267:
Was Bloop 404'd? Just curious--
Today is Gold's chance to decouple--will it?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:20
panda (@Gollum, CEAUX-DUTHEIL Stéphane) ID#30116:
CEAUX-DUTHEIL Stéphane -- Your a pessimist.. :- ) ) ( just joking )

Gollum -- You mean there are problems? What? Me worry? ( Alfred E. Neuman )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:15
panda (@ short blurb on Brazilian Real...) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:14
MoReGoLd (@panda - $'s) ID#348286:
It's too late for cANADA. Cretiene the PM has botched the whole affair with his mouth and now we're in a full blown crisis. It should be nearing the AU$ level pretty soon.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:14
panda (@short blurb on C$) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:14
Gollum (@themissinglink ) ID#43185:
You mean other than global recession, Russian currency collapse, and widespread chaos and disrutpion in the financial markets together with heightened expectation of increased terroist activity together with loss of faith in the presidency in the US?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:11

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:11
panda (gold and oil) ID#30116:
had better do something 'right' for a change... or I shall be sorely pissed... and I do mean sorely.....

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:10
Gollum (4¢ in 15 minutes) ID#43185:
That was cool.

With the rookie out flying the DOW plane today, I'm going to go downstairs and fix up the gold and silver levers. Ever since I let Cheesehead and blooper go down there things have gotten messed up.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:08
panda (@$) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:07
panda (@Remember when you were kids and you traded things of 'value'...) ID#30116:
I'll trade you this colored paper for that colored paper...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:06
themissinglink (Europe) ID#373403:
Is there a reason for this serious decline across the board in European stocks?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:06
panda (@$) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:05
panda (MOREGOLD, in a vain attempt.....) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:03
panda (MoReGoLd ) ID#30116:
They hear, but do not listen.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:01
MoReGoLd (@cANADIAN Dollar Plunge.......) ID#348286:
Liquidators of Gold beware, this is what happens in the end. All confidence is lost. cANADIAN buck is in a relentless freefall........

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 09:00
geoffs (Comments Requested on NEW DRUDGE REPORT) ID#432157:

Can this be TRUE--DEAR GOD !!!!!!!!!!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:57
pmdhrh (Helprin WSJ article) ID#170304:
Copyright © 1998 pmdhrh/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This guy Helprin is what we will get after Bubba leaves...Psuedo-nazi
hatred of any humanity which doesn't measure up to their standards.
He compares Clinton to a thinking man's Tawana Brawley...I know of the rogue prosecutor in that case as I live in the area...the prosecutor and the local authorities are people who hate blacks and resent their progress in the area...the local authorities think it is ok to beat, maime and otherwise abuse any black or minority and get away with it...the area is run by the republicans and they lie and cover-up their misdeeds. The fbi was called in numerous times to investigate jailhouse
beatings....I am not a liberal but becareful because the other side of the coin don't look so good from here...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:57
lakshmi__A (It is the Birthday of Ganesh) ID#26350:
Copyright © 1998 lakshmi__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hello. Today is a very bullish celebration in the Hindu temples of Ganesh, his personal birthdate. His manefestation in daily life produces great results for good luck, future goals and removal of obstacles. In the temples and at home it is considered great luck to pat his forehead, the broad friendly face of an elephant.
Silverbaron: Add to the astrological calendar dates, Sunday September 6 is a full moon in partial eclipse following a recent partial eclipse of the Sun. Could it mean more volatility? I would take any tax loss selling ASAP before the crowd does, although mining shares are so undervalued now for the companies that will survive, I think I will keep what I own and wait and see what happens. The waxing moon again reaches the asterims of the constellation Taurus in late December--about the 30th I believe, but not before. Moon in Taurus ( the Bull ) has stood for solid beginnings and time to begin what will stand the tests of time. That could be a possible time to buy assets to hold for increase in value.
Perhaps I just have faith in the supply and demand curve, believing that when a great number of mines have ( or are currently ) closing that the supply of silver, copper will eventually diminish. For so many years we have been seeing in the case of silver that the demand increases while the total supply diminishes.
The new factor in the world as I see it this year, is markets that
once were unconnected, now move in tandem. Still we hear that some markets have less correlation with the US than others, such as India, but even in the papers this a.m. see the WSJ article for instance--one world economy? They mention Japan as being uncorrelated, when ( if ) it turns around, since it has bottomed.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:57
Gusto Oro (A Fairytale...) ID#430260:
Copyright © 1998 Gusto Oro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Pinky's Tailing Box: a weekly Wednesday feature of SI's At a Bottom Now for

Princess Greed: a Fairytale....

Gold bug, polish my silver bars--I want to see my face shining in them
by morning.

You're in silver? You mean you haven't lost face you wish.

Gold bug, fill these with water.

If those market orders for Zappa get filled you won't need water because
you'll already be you wish.

Gold bug, fetch me that pinscher.

Your portfolio is so full of penny mining stock dogs I'm not sure which
one to you wish.

5 Years Later...

My Princess, we are but poor resource stock there a
village nearby--A-A-A-G-H!--we have her. Quickly now, on to the blue
chip ship...when we're safely out of sight, we'll dispose of the her.

No one said anything about killing the girl.

When I found you, you were so slobbering drunk you almost got elected
senator of Massachusettes...and you, you're so stupid if you left now
you'd be a giant tax write-off loss.

You forgot to floss.

Enough--I'm your boss...oo-o-o!


Then Vizzini says the girl comes to harm.

He's no one to cross in spite of his charm.

You have a gift for rhyme my giant friend.

Just get the ship going you two. And no more rhymes now. I mean it.

Gold at $800 an oz--I've never seen it.


Despite what you think, the special prosecuter will find you and you'll
all be hanged.


She's jumped ship--go in after her...veer left, left!

We can't--it's too close to the fall elections.


Do you know what those are? Those are shrieking liber-eels. They always
grow louder when Clinton's about to get attacked.

I got her.

No investment can catch blue chips now. Look! The cliffs of insanity!

Vizzini, we are being followed by a goldbug through these treacherous


Vizzini, he's climbing the rope faster than we are.


Vizzini, the Dow is below 8400.

Inconceivable!!! Grope that rope! We have to cover up faster--did I make it clear your job is at stake?

Mine or Clinton's?

The gold bug is still hanging on.

I'll cut the rope.

He's still there...

Gold didn't fall to new lows? Inconceivable!!! You finish him off. We'll
head straight for the Geld-er hills.

I'm going to use my left hand--I don't want to beat him too fast.
You know what a hurry we're in to win an election. Okay, do it your way
but move along.


Hello down there. I am in a hurry to kill you in the coming
election--perhaps I could hand you a rope...what if I give you my word
as a liberal?

I'm not a CNN pollster.

How about as an independent?

Throw it down.

My name is Inigo Montoya--prepare to die.

S-W-A-S-H! S-L-I-C-E! S-W-A-S-H!

You are good! Who are you?

No one of consequence.

I must know.

Get used to disappointment.

I already have--my tech stock mutual fund is down 30% this year.

S-W-A-S-H! S-L-I-C-E! S-W-A-S-H!

You have won. Kill me quickly.

Okay--I'll switch your remaining portfolio to penny mining stocks.




I could have killed you with that liberal sized stone.

Look, you hit that poor mouse.

Get off my back so I can see what I'm fighting. I'm choking...

As are most of the blue chips in your portfolio. Rest well and dream of
large gold deposits.


So, gold bug, it is down to you and it is down to me. You have bested my
giant and you have bested my liberal, but you are no match for my

You are wise?

Have you ever heard of Placer, Barrick, Newmont, and Freeport?


McMoRan, er...moronic investments.

I suggest a battle of wits...smell this.

I don't smell anything.

It's solanum powder--a tasteless and odorless derivative of the
nightshade family and considered one of the world's deadlier poisons.
Which portfolio did I just contaminate with lethal derivatives?

That's simple. All I have to do is reason are you the sort of man who
would poison his own portfolio or that of his enemy's. I know that you
are a gold bug and I am a market bull, and the markets have been
outperforming gold for years, so I would hardly choose the portfolio in
front of you. But you must have known that being heavy in blue chips, I
am wary of overvaluations and deteriorating company earnings due to
Asia, wage pressures, and YK2 so I most certainly can't choose the
portfolio in front of me.

Then you've decided then...

Not in the slightest. You must know that because of my intelligence, I
would know that most gold sold in recent months was from Australia
killing the POG and that low metals prices further errode the stability
of the Aussie economy making it likely the Australian currency will
weaken, adding to the Asian woes and precipitating further flight to
quality to the US markets, so I most certainly can't choose the
portfolio in front of you. But you also must have knew that I would know
that Millenium fever, spreading nuclear capability to unstable Islamic
governments, soon-to-come meteor showers that may take out half our
satellite telecommunications, and currency devaluation in China due to
La Niña natural disasters might impact the price of gold spurring a
spectacular short covering rally, so I most certainly can't choose the
portfolio in front of me.

You're stalling.

Don't interrupt me! Where was I?


Yes, as the Japanese, Australian, and other Asian currencies devalue,
hoards of US treasury bonds will be dumped on the market, sending
interest rates soaring and US equities in a tailspin, so I most
certainly wouldn't choose the portfolio in front of me. But a 16 year
gold overhang from potential Central Bank and Swiss bank sales coupled
with continued fallout from the Bre-X scandal means I most certainly
couldn't choose the portfolio in front of you.

Are you finished?

I haven't even begun to tap the vastness of my intellect. For with La
Nina arriving, cold weather will spur heavy oil demand, sending oil
prices to multi-year highs and undermining the dollar. Further, since
the US is the lender of last resort to the IMF and since many of the IMF
loans are to mismanaged, basket case economies, a backlash against the
dollar and dollar denominated equities is inevitable and so I could
never choose the portfolio in front of me. But with metals demand in
Asia falling and the potential for Asian countries to become net sellers
because of financial panic, I could never choose the portfolio in front
of you.

You are trying to get me to give something away...

You fool--you've given everything away!

Well, with my holding gold the last five years, just about everything...



It was nothing--swallow your porfolio.


Fool! One of the most important lessons to learn is never get involved
in derivatives in Asia, but only slightly less known is this: never try
to outwit a stock market bull who's been right for the last 13 years!...


How did you know where to put the poison?

I poisoned both portfolios my Princess. I've spent the last 5 years
investing in pennystocks and precious metals building an immunity to to
heavy losses.


From the Tailing box...

Dear At a Bottom Now for Gold:

Is gold really a relic? --Mystified

Dear Mystified:

Cross myself and hope to buy... --Whirlwind

Dear Pinky's Tailing Box:

So when is Zappa going to fly? --Frequent Flier

Dear Frequent Flier:

Go Greyhound. --Whirlwind

Questions about the PMs?

E-mail the Whirlwind at:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:56
Gollum (Quote of the day?) ID#43185:
. This is a

serious global emergency, said Greg Mastel of the Economic Strategy

Institute, a Washington-based think tank

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:52
panda (Having a dark sense of humor...) ID#30116:
One of the ads being run on the CBS Market Watch quote sight is from a, MR. Stock, online trading. The ad states,

In Remembrance of Black Monday FREE Internet Stock Trades Otober 19, 1988.

Yes sir, indeedy, only in America................ :- ) )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:51
Gollum (Yesterday's flight) ID#43185:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:46
panda (Maybe this direct link will work better...) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:46
Mike Sheller (MURRSTEIN:) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
re your 1:20 - First, before you tell me to buy a dictionary, learn to spell. My name for one thing.
Second, learn to read. I did NOT say Metaphysical is no space. I SAID true space is NO THING, and I was speaking as metaphysically radical as I can.

Now if you would like to ruminate over that statement as I have made it, I would be happy to engage your comments and perhaps take it from there. As for dictionary definitions, they are about as insightful as market commentary on CNBC. They seem to be relevant, but somehow there'sd much more to know and understand.

Have a nice day.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:44
panda (Maybe this direct link will work better...) ID#30116:
Form the market trading limits...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:41
Gollum (@OLD GOLD ) ID#43185:
More than mere pain. Much more methinks.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:41
panda (Whooops!) ID#30116:
Click on Information Memos and then click on 1998-21 for Rule 80b update.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:39
panda (A Refresher on Rule 80b, or when the market hits the rails...) ID#30116:
Click on 1998-21 at

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:37
POLARBEAR (A Great Read....think I'll put it on my wall.) ID#183109:
Copyright © 1998 POLARBEAR/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

My Dear Mr. President



August 25, 1998

My dear Mr. President:

Certainly it is now permissible to be as blunt with you as you were with the American people when you squared your jaw, pointed your finger and, in intimidating fashion as if you were our sergeant, headmaster, or jailer, commanded us to listen. Even had you not, by your own admission, lied thereafter, this was unforgivable. Presidents do not speak to Americans with such seething disrespect. And for you it wasn't the first time. In 1994, you accused the country of being unworthy of your wife, when you said, If everybody in this country had a character half as strong as hers, we wouldn't have the problems we've got today.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:33
Speed (@Gollum) ID#29048:
thanks! away to the ever growing network with non-compliant RTCs...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:32
MoReGoLd (@RJ) ID#348286:
Yer sounding pretty bullish........

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:25
Gollum (@Speed) ID#43185:
Old Nathan Rothschild, among others, was pretty good at creating a panic in whatever eh was interested in and then buying it all up at firesale prices...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:19
Mtn Bear (SE) (RJ) ID#347267:
One of my favorite movies... and they got the GOLD!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:15
OLD GOLD (pain) ID#242325:
There will be a lot of pain at Paine Webber and the other brokerages before this bear is finished. Million dollar bonuses will become as rare as a snowflake in Florida.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:10
PMF (A feeding frenzy) ID#224363:
Copyright © 1998 PMF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The more I look around the markets these days, the more I see a currency feeding frenzy. Pick your favorite cause - hedge funds, fund-based shorting, plain old fashioned 'lack of faith', but anyway you cut it , everyone ( and I mean everyone ) seems to buying $US.

Noticed this morning that there was talk about the Scandinavian central banks intervening in their markets ( anyone want a kroner or two ? ) .

And my favorite currency, the Canadian Peso continues to drop like a small pebble in raging river - not quite sinking to the bottom but being dragged lower and lower and the river runs through the canyon.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:09
panda (Tortfeasor) ID#30116:
I know all about, 'dollar cost averaging'. I do it very well. Now, when does it pay off? :- ) ) Or should I say, I feel your pain....., quoted from a notorious source. :- )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:09
RJ (..... More Metals .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The dip today smells like a buying opportunity.

Silver 4.95, platinum $360, gold $282, I like it all.

Remember my arguments last November regarding the mucho silver to be found in London? We all know it is there ( or rather suspect strongly ) yet we had a $2 rally in the face of these supplies. Somebody wrote last night about their confusion concerning the supply demand picture for silver. Silver has been in production deficit for more than a decade, the same of which witnessed prices anywhere from 3.50 to 11.00 per ounce. Fundamentals are fine, but this is a cruelly manipulated market best approached by emulating the big boys than blazing new trails through the COMEX/LMBA wilderness. Whenever there are stockpiles to go to, supply deficits loose criticality and the metal is available for those that wish to whack the price about like a ping pong ball.

That said, I warn of a vicious bull trap after a quick run up to 5.30 or so. It will probably have one final washout before price starts to rise near year end.

Platinum is not sick, but is not at all well either. Holders of longs who stay with it will be rewarded for the fealty B4 the year is finished.

I’m buying gold here, screw all you bears. Too many negative vibes, man.

( Donald Sutherland, Kelly’s Heroes )

OK, now off to do it……

Indeedy do

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 08:02
HighRise (South Africa) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
South Africa
Johannesburg All Share

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:55
OLD GOLD (BS from Paine Webber) ID#242325:
Paine Webber thinks equities are a screaming buy now, but the Fiend disagrees.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:54
Gollum (@FOX-MAN__A ) ID#43185:
Well, these rookies have to learn sometime. We have told our rookie ti just fly the same pattern I did yesterday, but we suspect she may have a bit of trouble getting off the ground at first.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:53
Speed (Gollum) ID#29048:
Rothschield? Please enlighten me.
SSC may sell as low as 9/16 to 5/8 today. It's hard to pass up a bargain. : )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:51
Gollum (@jims ) ID#43185:
It's the chapter where ALL commodity prices are falling across the board. Gold is more than holding it's own in buying power. It's just that right now, the dollar is king and anyone in cash is doing great.

The question is, Where have all the dollars gone? Money supply is still UP. There should be lots of dollars chasing commodities. Where are they?

I think the Fed has them. With everyone from all over the world buying treasuries a lot of dollars have left the economic velocity cycle.

What say thee?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:48
FOX-MAN__A (Gollum; That will be a handy out if and when the rookie takes the plane for a) ID#288186:
nose dive! I think we'll see a close on the dow of -140 or more...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:43
Tortfeasor (Gollum) ID#37463:
Well, I'm going to have to sit out this flight as well today. I'll tune in from time to time on the black box though. Who might our rookie pilot be today?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:43
vronsky (Global Markets Collapse Again As 1930s-Style Debt Crisis Emerges) ID#426220:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Dan Ascani is Director of Research of GLOBAL MARKET STRATEGISTS - a leading international investment study group. His commentary is very alarming as well as well balanced.

To scream 1930s-stlye depression every time the global economy moves from an expansion phase of the business cycle into a declining phase ( typically, in turn, leading to recession ) would not be desirable. However, once every 60 years, 1930s style depressions typically do occur, and this time the global economy is, unfortunately, experiencing the kind of economic collapse that occurs only every five or six decades or so. It is, in fact, a full-blown depression in some parts of the globe and spreading at an alarming rate to other parts.

Mr. Ascani sagely observes this generation of investors is on assignment: to learn what no prior generation has yet learned; to go where no generation has gone before. The assignment is to learn to be prudent; to not be irrationally exuberant, as we and the U.S. Fed Chairman have discussed so many times in the past. It is to learn to balance portfolios as the marketplace changes, and it is to learn that being a conservative investor is not defined by holding onto stock and taking no action but, instead, to reallocate portfolios and keep them balanced ( i.e., between stocks, bonds, cash, gold, etc. ) at all times.

You may read his insightful observations at the following URL - - it's necessary to delete letters en in word golden before posting to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:43
Gollum (@Speed ) ID#43185:
Maybe it's the old Rothschield dip.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:41
Tortfeasor (Clinton note) ID#37463:
News is that the Clintons are sailing with Walter Cronkite. The most trusted man in American with the least trusted man. Strange bedfellows indeed. Doesn't Clnton realize that Cronkite is retired and can't help him a lot--or did Cronkite quit watching TV after he retired and doesn't realize his reputation might be sullied? A riddle inside a conundrum; for who understands Democrats and the things they do to ease their pain.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:40
Gollum (@Tortfeasor ) ID#43185:
I see the DOW down a little this morning, fairly flat, then actually rising a little this afternoon.

ON the other hand ol' Cap'n Gollum isn't going flying today. No sir. We are sending up a rookie pilot today.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:39
Gianni Dioro__A (Wave Count on Dow) ID#384350:
I said yesterday that we might be starting wave 3 of 3 down in the dow daily chart.

I am also entertaining the possibility that waves 1, 2 that have just been completed might have rather been a I, II and now we start a new 5 wave sequence. So there might be some resistance from 8000-8300 from where wave 2 might start.

The weekly chart on the Dow looks terrible. It looks to me like a kondratieff type top you see at manic tops like 1980 gold, 1929 stocks, etc.

@DBog, You're right, all the media tries to portray it as a simple case of adultery with lewinsky, when in fact it is a case of Perjury & Obstruction of Justice in the Paula Jones Sexual Harassment Case. The press is evil and manipulative.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:38
Silverbaron (BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK TOMORROW?) ID#289357:

The way things are shaping up, maybe this forecast is right on target. Watch tomorrow to see.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:34
Tortfeasor (sharefin) ID#37463:
That sucking sound you describe is the money which I have lost being in the gold market for the past three years. But as my law partner describes himself in the paper market, I'm dollar cost averaging in. My average cost indeed continues to decline. This does indeed suck.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:30
Tortfeasor (Lone Ranger) ID#37463:
The Loan Ranger would be whistling a happy tune today, buying those silver bullets for a song. He would be stockpiling, knowing that these low prices will not last. He might even be making Tono mold him out some gold bullets for show and to shoot really bad hombres who are shooting at him with paper mache guns.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:29
sharefin (Donald) ID#284255:
I can smell the paper burning from here.

Russian central bank voids rouble/dollar trade;
``People are also withdrawing en masse their rouble and dollar savings from banks,''

Then you have the Japanese LTCB Bank being exposed to $US347 odd billion in derivatives gone bad.

The dominos are toppling,
Knocking each other over at an ever increasing speed.

Watch out below.

Globex crashed 10 pts in one hour.
Now the PPT look to be at work.

Russia was up 15%, now down 12%
27% swings throughs the volatility out the window.

Capitalism sucks.
Can't you hear it?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:28
rhody (LEASE RATES: Bart is still not updating the lease rate schedule) ID#411440:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
but as far as I can tell, lease rates are still down. All my data

indicates that they must move up before gold spot will move up.


Alan Greenspan has said that the Fed's stance will not change as

long as the cycle of viruosity continues. I thought this meant

low inflation and rising markets, with stable interest rates.

It looks like what he meant was low inflation through a process of

ever cheaper ( deflated ) imports, and high relative interest rates

in the US to maintain the flood of foreign investment. Short term

prosperity in the USA will be at the expense of driving the world

into a depression. Those who are ignorant of history are doomed

to repeat the mistakes of history. Here we are in 1929 all over


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:27
Tortfeasor (DOW to fall today) ID#37463:
The stage is set for a big 212 drop in the DOW today. The DOW went contra to the world yesterday ( slightly that is ) . But the USA dollar is carrying too much weight on its weary back. All over its paper looking to paper for backbone. Fortunately for the tissue paper currencies the dollar is poster board but nonetheless it is still paper and it creases, fold and bends eventually and most importantly it burns if enough heat is applied. The move to gold seems the only long term solution.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:20
Speed (Spike down) ID#29048:
Bloomberg t.v.

Spot silver is down 11 cents to 4.89
Platinum is down 5.90 to 366
Gold is only down .70

I hope this silver spike is brief.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 07:07
Leland (@Donald, Re. Ruble Down 69% Against the DM) ID#316193:
Thanks! Now we can understand why the European bourses are
terrible today. Every last one is in the red!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:53
Donald (Ruble slides 69% against the DM (not a typo)) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:51
jims (Economics teacher failed us) ID#252391:
I don't remeber reading the chapter wherein under circumstances where ccurrencies are collapsing, war is in the air, and one's own government is coming apart that GOLD would be going down. Markets are a discovery process. We discover the new economics together. I suppose when we have it fiqured out and in is well enunciated on CNBC the trend will change.

I must remeber that gold is going up in just about every other currency but the one I use to pay bills - suppose I should be thankful for that.

Thin I'll go short some stock and get that market to a rising.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:47
Speed (WSJ on Commodities-most are falling) ID#29048:
Bridge Commodities Index Slips Below Key 200 Level


Commodity prices continued to drop across the board, sending the Bridge Commodity Research Bureau index below a widely watched level of 200.

The Bridge/CRB index of commodity prices had flirted with 200 for several weeks, and on Monday fell below that level before closing just above it.

Prices for 11 of the index's 17 component commodities slipped, with particular weakness in metals, livestock, natural gas and grains. The index fell 0.91 point to settle at 199.77. The last time the index finished below 200 was in February 1993.

The Goldman Sachs index of commodity spot prices slipped 0.29% to 141.0191. That index, on Aug. 11, hit a low of 139.6809. The last time it was lower was on Aug. 17, 1977, when it hit 138.08.

The damage being inflicted on the nation's economy by falling commodities prices is showing up sharply in the U.S. stock market, as well as in foreign markets. The greatest pain has been suffered by commodity producers, as displayed by the poor performance of energy and basic-materials company stocks in the U.S., and in foreign markets that are heavily dependent on commodities, such as Russia, Mexico, Canada and Australia.

Lower prices aren't all bad. Consumers, like airline companies and trucking firms, as well as U.S. drivers, are enjoying low fuel costs.

While commodities traders and analysts took note of the CRB's movement below 200, they said a more important barrier for the trading community is 198.17, set on Aug. 12, 1992, the lowest intraday trading level hit by the CRB in this decade. Technical players, who make market decisions based on historic trends, say that if the index slips below that level, it could trigger more selling and thus a more sustained bear market.

Robert Hafer, managing director at Bridge/CRB, says another level to watch will be a 12-year intraday mark of 196.16, set in July 1986. Mr. Hafer, among others, thinks breaking through that level is more likely than it has ever been. There really is no end in sight other than the fact that CRB does historically bottom out in this zone, he said. But the world economic situation is far more fragile now than it was in 1986
or 1992. Mr. Hafer said the index began to stay consistently above 200 in 1978. He and others attribute much of the deflationary pressure on
commodities to the Asian currency crisis and its damping effect on what was the highest-growth demand sector for raw materials.

Howard Simons, director of research for French bank Societe Generale's Fimat Group in Chicago, adds that some of the problem for commodities comes from the fact that government economic regulators are treating
the current economic boom as if it is inflationary. In fact, Mr. Simons contends, the potential problem faced now by the U.S. is the opposite one. Prices are down because everyone's trying to sell to get U.S.
dollars, he said. We're looking at what will become a competitive world deflation. If all these currencies keep devaluing, nobody's going to be able to afford to buy our goods.

Russia's woes, meanwhile, have added to the mix of problems, pressuring commodities, particularly metals. The country's decision to lease gold, said traders, has put more of the precious metal in the hands of sellers. At first everybody said 'Oh good, the Russians are lending, not selling,' said George Gero, senior vice president of investments at
Prudential in New York. But it's all gone to the shorts. The key December gold contract ended Tuesday at $286.90 a troy ounce, down $1.60. Silver also ended the day down as did platinum, another metal that could flood world markets should Russia decide to export more of it.

Agricultural commodities also posted poor performances, capping months of declines as traders contemplate bumper crops and meat production amid
waning Asian demand. December corn settled at$2.135 a bushel, down two cents. Wheat, live cattle and live hogs prices also fell. Soybeans alone had a positive day, with the November contract rising 2.5 cents to settle at $5.3125 a bushel.

Still, not everyone agrees with dire forecasts of deflation. Many analysts cautioned Tuesday that while the indexes' low levels seem to suggest that deflation may spread beyond basic-materials prices,they more likely portend a bottoming out in the two-year commodity-price downtrend.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:47
Copyright © 1998 POLARBEAR/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
** Global meltdown poses nightmare scenario for U.S.

As Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin enjoys a last week of summer

vacation, a nightmare scenario is threatening to unfold for the

global economy that could be beyond the reach of U.S. policymakers.

The financial crisis that started in Asia last year once looked

manageable, but analysts warned Monday it may turn into a global

epidemic. Billions of dollars in international emergency aid have

failed to contain the turmoil. There is hardly an emerging market

left that has been spared. Russia's economy is crumbling fast, and

now Latin America threatens to become the next victim. This is a

serious global emergency, said Greg Mastel of the Economic Strategy

Institute, a Washington-based think tank. See

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:47
Donald (Mexico on the ropes; interest rates skyrocket; peso plunges; devaluation feared) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:46
RLM (Sharefin) ID#403335:
Thanks for posting the oldman's Avid comments!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:44
jims (All's quiet as the markets slide) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just about everything in the world is down. Of particular interest to this SWC holder is the decline in Platinum ( -$10 ) and silver looks destined to take out contract lows and spot lows of what was it May 5th or June 5th - have to look it up.

APH - how is your wheat doing.

I can certainly understand the skepticism extended to Armstrong's comments but you have to say his timing was pretty good. Coming out today all bearish, warning of 500oz of silver hidden in London vaults and massive future deflation and depression. I'm sorry but I found many of his comments to be well worth considering. This flight to the dollar is certainly having business contracting ramifications. Liquidity is drying up and this is one of the reasons these markets are declining.

Silver off a cool 20 cents now in the last two days at $4.94.

Keeping powder dry - sage advice from somebody else.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:40
Donald (Not just suspension anymore; Russia voids COMPLETED dollar-ruble trades.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:37
Donald (Russia suspends ruble trading for the day after price meltdown) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 06:33
Bill2j (@GoGold) ID#259400:
If my memory serves me correctly the cat made of prediction of gold being up over 300 by November. I wonder if he was looking at his chart upside down. Maybe he meant over 200.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 05:55
Spock (Beaming Up...) ID#210114:
Oz dollar tipped to go to 55c US. Hhmmm.....

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 05:53
Who really bombed the Planet Hollywood in your town. Do you think it was retaliarion for US attack on Bin Ladin. They seem to be implying the possibility on the morning news.

Silver....aint it beautiful.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 05:10
Spock (Beaming in.......) ID#210114:
Decided to beam in and check out the action in the ( US ) morning. Have sent an email to USAGold.

They got it wrong re: Oz dollar gold price never was $A 350; the lowest it got was $A 427 last December. It is now $A 490.

Oz dollar now at 57.5 US cents. Hmmm... still think we need a currency system.. Floating system is rubish. Money is not 'just a commodity'.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 04:07
sharefin (To wit...) ID#284255:
Frenzy, Folly and Fear, those Careless are
The fates that mould our destinies, and shape
The grave dishonesties, deceits, that mar
Our work, our very loves, our art
Stir the dark anxieties, the mortal pains
The dark and deadly pride that stains
The living dying heart.

We mime the random measure of their art
Act out the torment of their aimless play
Suffer all things with numb unfeeling heart
The less their willful torment day by day
Or wanton, toss to waste our life in play.

Only that man,
Who steadfast stands apart
And cries his manhood, cries aloud - I AM
Will be free of such dire fates
Only thus be saved,
Be his own man.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 04:06
John Disney__A (Hmmmm ..) ID#24135:
Gold being dragged down the
crapper by gold and silver ..
I recall a guy who was short
gold long plat and a little long
silver .. now who was that

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 04:03
John Disney__A (Kabila..) ID#24135:
back in Kinshasa. Angola have air
control.. Rebels in trouble
and need need stingers ..
Maybe brother savimbi has some.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 04:02
Grizz (Clinton's diversion is working) ID#424394:
Copyright © 1998 Grizz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
What little I saw of the talking heads last night...
They are really beginning to circle the wagons around the President
and want to lay off the bashing because of security/defense concerns.
As prospects for war and national disaster increase
even the more rabid Clinton bashers will tune down their rhetoric.
This makes me afraid
that the positive ( for Clinton ) feedback loop will cause Clinton
to ratchet up the terrorist/war scenario to further stifle the bashing.
I would not put it past him to arrange for some incidents
to give him the excuse to make further strikes overseas and
impose martial law or at least severe restrictions here at home.

Do we have that pervasive feeling of impending doom yet?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 04:00
sharefin (Russia on a roll?) ID#284255:
All problems solved and bull rally time?
Russia up 15%

But the rest of Europe giving up some of yesterdays gains.

Turkey down 6%

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 03:20
Hedgehog (US Paranoia deepens.) ID#39857:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Wednesday 26 August, 1998 ( 3:36pm AEST )

United States Intelligence officials have defended the decision to bomb
a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, saying soil samples from the area
showed traces of an ingredient for making deadly VX gas.

They say the Sudanese owners of the Shifa factory in Khartoum, which
was largely destroyed in the attack last Thursday, also had meetings
with Iraqis close to Iraq's chemical weapons programme.

Senior US intelligence officials say the chemical found in the soil near
the plant was EMPTA, which has no commercial applications and is not
a byproduct of any other chemical process.

Sudanese officials dismissed the soil sample, saying the investigation
was flawed.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 03:15
Jack (You hav'ta be carefull who you follow) ID#252127:

Armstrong, Soros, von Finck, Buffett, Bronfman, they all have their long and short term priorities that may lead the little guy astray.
I rather be wrong based on my own stupidity, at least that way I learn.......hopefully?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 03:09
sharefin (Jeil) ID#284255:
I'm not sure what I sent you.
Futures or the cash price.
But in the long term view I think there would be little difference.

Like the charts you plot, the prices seem to self-correct over time.
Automatic self smoothing?

Seems similiar with my swing plots.
The extremes get averaged out to fit within the cycle.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 03:02
sharefin (Jeil) ID#284255:
Forgotton all about that.
Maybe oneday we all will a bit of spare time. ( :- ) ) )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:51
Jack (Flash) ID#252127:

I'm on the left coast and can't recall such activity.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:50
Jeil (sharefin, alter my previous post) ID#253228:
I guess it was 1975 when gold and silver were freely traded. Also, I can't find your explanation of your data, but I seem to remember the gold and silver data was for futures rather than spot prices. Correct or not

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:49
crazytimes (Martin Armstrong....from two years ago. Check this out. ) ID#342376:
Copyright © 1998 crazytimes/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Excerpts from an interview with Martin Armstrong in the May 31,1996 issue of Silver and Gold Report, edited by James DiGeorgia.

Martin Armstrong:

You're going to see oil most likely reach the $60-$80 range over the next 2 to 3 years...

...Roughly, there's a 64-year cycle in gold, which is due for a peak around 1998. The last peak came in 1934 when gold was rallying substantially and Roosevelt was confiscating it.

Before that, you had the gold panic of 1869 when we first went off the gold standard. Prices rallied up to $162 on the NYSE back then. That's the equivalent to nearly $10,000 in today's terms!

What I find interesting is that every time this 64-year gold cycle pops up, it tends to earmark periods of crisis in the currency exchange rates...

Looking down the road further-say two years- I think gold will likely test its 1980 high by 1998, perhaps even the $1000 range by then, and then higher into the year 2003.

Platinum looks even better. I wouldn't be surprised to see it approach $1800-2000 level in the next two years.

I am not as optimistic on silver, but I expect it to break through the $8 level. Silver could move in sympathy with gold and platinum. It might leap over the $10 mark in the next few years.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:46
Jack (It seems that Investor interest in goldshares is increasing ) ID#252127:

While this has not been reflected in the share volume for Richmont Mines, the number of hits on their web site has increased materially over the past month.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:41
Flash ((Jack)) ID#301318:
but not to much activity on the HF bands tonight. Perhaps war with Bonnie?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:36
Gianni Dioro__A (@themissinglink, war) ID#384350:
It does seem that the scenario of a US-implicated Middle East war might be starting to unfold. The US provoking Arab nations with its attack on Sudan & Afghanastan, Syria & Israel taking jabs at one another, and a desperate Russia may return to her evil ways by invading some country like Turkey.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:31
Jack () ID#252127:

Lots of night training at the local Marine Airbase over the last two days........somethings brewing

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:27
Cowgirl__A (Wag the Dog, etc) ID#34191:
Just saw the movie, but I felt like I had already seen the movie! Talk about hitting the nail on the head. I saw the name Maxine Waters in the credits,.......naw......couldn't be......

Clinton Computer: 8 inch hard drive with no memory. Question is, will it be y2k compliant? Some say the statement is probably generous.... take a note, secretary, call Paula, or Gennifer, or Monica, or.....? and verify.

Prediction: Slick will slither out of this one..... and the Campaign Finance scandal will be too slow to do any good.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:20
Jeil (sharefin) ID#253228:
Copyright © 1998 Jeil/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have not taken your gold etc. data and moved to Brazil. My schedule has been out of hand of late. I do intend to do an analysis on gold prices. I don't think I can use futures prices because of the time decay effect on the price, so will probably try the London PM fix on a weekly basis beginning with 1964 when the market was not controled. . I did pull some data from the KITCO site and just need to fill in a few more old years before I can begin. I nevertheless do appreciate your sending me the data you had and I will give you due credit whenever I get the projection worked out and posted on my little web page.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:17
Auric (Who Cares? ) ID#255151:

Take a look at Adelaide, Australia. Shows
them 30 minutes out of sync with rest of the
world. They probably think its winter too.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:09
sharefin (Who loves B Gates - yeah) ID#284255:
It's 1998. Do You Know Where Your Microsoft Access Data Are?

Stats from my web site so far.
Unique: 479 
Total visits: 750 
Today: 18 
Yesterday: 188 
Average/day: 89 
Domain:.AU AUSTRALIA ( 48% )
OS:Windows 95 ( 89% )
Browser:Internet Explorer 3.x ( 46% )

AUSTRALIA ( .AU )   ====359 ( 47% )
Networks ( .NET ) ====128 ( 17% )
Commercial ( .COM )   ====109 ( 14% )
Unknown ( .? )   ====89 ( 11% )
NEW ZEALAND ( .NZ )   ====23 ( 3% )
CANADA ( .CA )   ====15 ( 2% )
MEXICO ( .MX )   ====6 ( 0% )
Educational ( .EDU )   ====5 ( 0% )
NETHERLANDS ( .NL )   ====4 ( 0% )
United Kingdom ( .UK )   ====4 ( 0% )
UNITED STATES ( .US )   ====2 ( 0% )
ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA ( .AG )   ====1 ( 0% )
FINLAND ( .FI )   ====1 ( 0% )
SINGAPORE ( .SG )   ====1 ( 0% )
TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS ( .TC )   ====1 ( 0% )
JAPAN ( .JP )   ====1 ( 0% )
US Dept of Defense ( .MIL )   ====1 ( 0% )

Internet Explorer 3.x  ====346 ( 46% )
Internet Explorer 4.x  ====190 ( 25% )
Netscape 4.x  ====119 ( 15% )
Netscape 3.x  ====78 ( 10% )
Netscape 2.x  ====13 ( 1% )
Internet Explorer 2.x  ====2 ( 0% )
Unknown ====1 ( 0% )
Unknown Netscape compatible ====1 ( 0% )

Windows 95   ====666 ( 88% )
Windows 98   ====28 ( 3% )
Windows 3.x   ====18 ( 2% )
Macintosh   ====17 ( 2% )
Windows NT   ====16 ( 2% )
misc Unix   ====3 ( 0% )
Unknown   ====2 ( 0% )

Aurator interestingly pointed out the number of hits per O/S
Windows95 = 666

Good marketing for the first week with 479 unique hits.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:07
Who Cares?__A (World Clock - Wrong Time) ID#242328:

I just tried this world clock site and it's WRONG!

It shows the time in Phoenix to be - 23.13.

I want my money back.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:03
DBog (Earth to George_A) ID#267298:
Who tells the secrets of the night ?

I might ask you, my friend, Who tells what is obviously right ?

Forget the sex. This is all about PERJURY, PERJURY, PERJURY...

I don't give a god damned if it had to do with

1 ) A sexual act
2 ) Stealing a chocolate bar from K-Mart or
3 ) Taking a $100.00 bribe from a businessman

The man told a lie under oath, he committed PERJURY,
the man just happens to be the president of the US of A
who just happens to highest ranking lawmaker of the country.

Ordinary American citizens do prison time for committing
perjury, the only difference IMHO between them and the
president is that he should get DOUBLE the maximum sentence.

Jeezus George, get your head out of your arse.

Good Night and GO GOLD

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:02
Jeil (JTF, snowbird) ID#253228:
Thanks for the kind words. I hope this December you are saying the same thing.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 02:02
Auric (Once More) ID#255151:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:59
Auric (Current Time in World Cities) ID#255151:
Even has Auckland listed ( 6:08 PM at present ) .

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:57
Dave (@ I do believe) ID#261155:
About twenty four years ago WJC, did, as a young but barely known Congressman, endorse and support the impeachment/resignation of one Richard Nixon for.........Obstruction of Justice......^s^..

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:53
snowbird (Jeil: Congratulations on your excellent projections) ID#220325:
Keep this up and you will soon start your own newsletter! Keep it up.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:51
JTF (Thanks for keeping us up to date with your work) ID#57232:
Jeil: I still find it hard to believe that your system has done as well as it has, but it is now evident that your predictions are still on the money. Gold equities are probably going down some more, at least until the plummeting CRY0 stops.

And -- it is hard to believe that the markets are going to rally, even if Mike Sheller is bullish. Now -- the US dollar being bullish -- that I will believe. And -- perhaps the general equities markets will rally -- after they drop some more!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:45
Jeil (Alive and well, mostly lurking, watching the future arrive) ID#253228:
Copyright © 1998 Jeil/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If I had any artistic ability I would draw men as puppets controlled by invisible electromagnetic strings, some trailing in from the depth of space, some coming up from the core of this earth, and yet more eminating from the sun and from the relationships between planets.

I know nothing of significance about astronomy, astrology, or electromagnetics. I do know that human activity like trading common stock or gold is a reflection of what is going on inside men. The tension and relaxation of the puppet strings are reflected in those markets. The ebb and flow can be measured statistically and can be projected into the future. The cycles are many and hide among themselves. Only occasionally can a more dominant cycle be glimpsed with the naked eye.

Nevertheless, there is a major combined cyclical component to market movement. If all movement were random then it would be impossilbe to invest or speculate with any degree of predictability. If all movement were trend then everyone would observe this and be with the trend and trading would be impossible ( Who would bet against the obvious trend? ) Successful trading is possible because of cycles. You don't need to know the cause of the cycles to measure them because they are reflected in the history of markets. You can buy cheap if you know where the bottom is and you can sell dear if you know where the top is.

My work continues to show movement down in the S&P500, Homestake Mines, and ASA. The projected movement down is significant. If Armstrong and Prechter have concluded by other methods that gold and silver will decline this is consistent with my work. In relative terms the end of the long gold bear is near but not yet here and any long positions I am sad to say are likely to suffer over the next several months.
If interested in the messy details check out my charts at the usual URL preface plus // ( For some reason if I type the whole address KITCO blocks out my entire post. )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:44
Who Cares?__A (No Confirmation on Defcon 2) ID#242328:

Well, I sure can't find any cofirmation on Defcon 2 on the net.

Except for a brief reference in misc.militia and it dates back to
Aug 22.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:44
sharefin (The Largest 100 Cities in the U.S.: Primary Targets) ID#284255:

GAO Issues a Blistering Report on U.S. Government

GAO Warns of Threat to the Public

Natural Gas and Embedded Chips: Bad News

Noncompliant Messaging System: Threat to Communications

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:36
JTF (Oldman's words; Sutton book) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
sharefin: Thanks. His moves are really fluid, aren't they? If you trade short term enough, long term bull or bear is irrelevant. Even then, I sense uneasiness in his part. And -- if Oldman is uneasy, so am I!

Haggis: Still lurking? Antony C. Sutton's book, 'The War on Gold' was published in July 1978, ISBN # 0-89245-008-8, and it cost $9.95. Of course there has been no inflation since then ---- .

I did learn something about what Antony C. Sutton is doing these days, thought I have been unable to reach him. He has a newsletter called the 'Future Technology Intelligence Report'. I was amazed to find out that he is a 'zero point energy' convert, and knows all about DePalma's N'machine, Schaumberger's rotational turbines, and Wilhelm Reich. I will post his web site some other time. Brilliant man, though I don't think he has the zero-point energy business quite right. But -- on the other hand, I don't think anyone human in 1998 AD on Earth does, either. I still have a very dim concept of it myself -- frustrating to be on the verge of a major Physics discovery, and understand so little of it! Our ticket to the stars, and very likely the end of wars for energy resources.

A. Sutton thinks it will be a generation before the current establishment can accept zero point energy technology ( 'free energy', 'cold fusion', etc ) . And I am inclined to agree with him, unfortunately.

G'Night, all!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:33
crazytimes (Greenspan....) ID#342376:
I say he raises rates. The reason is the EURO is a comming round the mountain. Competition for the dollar. He knows the dollar has had it's day. Me thinks many of the big boys know, but nobody talks about it ( except here on Kitco ) If he lowers, he could be adding fuel to the fire of the dollar once EURO is launched.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:32
George__A (Kapex) ID#433172:
Copyright © 1998 George__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have been loath to condem Cinton over the sex scandal. I would be just as reluctant to judge anyone for their sexual lives. Who tells the secrets of the night? Give that a moments thought. If there is anythoing such as freedom, then we must be free in this respect. Freedom..not the real issue.

This latest blunder is really pathetic. We are conducting ourselves according to the Israeli methods of reprisal. It's not appropriate for the US, and most here see it as a disaster. Unbeliveable stupidity.

So with his head.....but not over Monica.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:30
themissinglink (War) ID#373403:
Israeli Defense Forces took out the number two terrorist in Lebanon today using a helicopter gunship. Missiles rained into northern Israel afterwards.

Believe this. Israel did not forget it's promise to reserve punishment for Iraqi scud missile attacks. America will soon unleash the IDF airforce to pelt Bagdad. War is imminent.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:29
tolerant1 (Reify, Namaste') ID#373284:
LOVE YOU and yours, the best from the Island that is Long even with the shoulder...falling out of cars ain't good...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:25
tolerant1 (MURRSTEIN, Namaste' and a gulp to zipperhead...if you have something) ID#373284:
to say to MY friend...SHELLER and you wish to speak of books and such spell HIS name right dimwit...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:24
Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug (IMF & Gold) ID#432214:
If you were the USA would you sell IMF GOLD on the open market and give the cash to the Russian Mob, or would you take back your gold that you initially contributed to the IMF, print US dollars and then give the US dollars to Russia

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:23

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:22
Reify (NOTHING OF THE KIND @) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
least not where I'm concerned------
Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:36
Copyright © 1998 Marshall/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I relay the following information with extreme concern. I have been retired from the US Army for two years
and have a son on active duty now. All American forces in Germany and Naval units in the Persian Gulf and
Indian Ocean have been placed in defense Condition #2 ( War is Imminent ) Israeli forces have gone to full war
status National Guard asking for vo
lunteers for immediate middle east deployment. All passes and leaves for American troops in germany ( combat
units ) have been cancelled ( my son included ) US Naval vessels have been dirverted from port to middle east.
s A lot of people are about to lose their life...Thanks in part to Comrade Clinton the biggest Traitor in American
We're making peace, not war- Don't you guys read the papers?
Sorry if I'm upsetting you're scenario.

Whould you wish to discuss this further, let's do it in private.
Email and we'll chat.

Should something really serious be happening we'll inform one another
as usual. Do have a pleasant day y'all.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:21
tolerant1 (within the Republic...there are many that I admire...TRULY, admire...they have earned ) ID#373284:
my RESPECT...thank you for allowing me to know you...thank you...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:20

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:20
Gold & Silver & Platinum Bug (Armstrong & Gold) ID#432214:
Forget what he said about gold and silver, he is saying that the U.S. market could drop 66% and two years of deflation like 1929. This is the big picture and he is very good at predicting global events.

I don't believe gold to $190.00, because big players will bid up the last asset that has no default risk.... Bet you those Banks and Hedge Funds who have Russian GKO's now wish they had gold.

Russia is the first major nation to default, who's next?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:18
Who Cares?__A (Possible Hit List) ID#242328:

New York?

I don't think so. If I truly wanted to do maximum damage, I would
nuke San Jose.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:18
Flash (FLASH FLASH FLASH) ID#301318:
Copyright © 1998 Flash/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

From: Consular Warden
Subject: Warden Message for American Citizens
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 9:21 AM

This is a warden message for all American citizens. Please distribute it
to all American citizens acquatainences. If you are a warden, notify
your warden group. In order for the Embassy to ensure that all American
citizens get this information, please inform us if you have received
this message. If you have any questions contact us, either by e-mail or
at one of the following numbers :
phone# 7-095-956-4295
fax# 7-095-956-4451.

In light of the recent U.S. military strikes against terrorist
targets in Afghanistan and Sudan, and possible threats to Americans and
American interests overseas, the Department of State urges U.S. citizens
travelling or residing abroad to review their security practices, to
remain alert to the changing situation, and to exercise much greater
caution than usual.

Large crowds and other situations in which anti-American sentiments may
be expressed should be avoided. U.S. diplomatic posts worldwide are
taking appropriate security precautions.

Americans should be aware that Embassy operations are currently
suspended in Somalia, Sudan, Republic of Congo, Brazzaville, Democratic
republic of Congo and Guinea Bissau. No United States consular services
are currently available in these countries.

The United States does not maintain diplomatic or consular posts in
Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Libiya and North Korea, and therefore no support
services are available to Americans in these countries. In light of the
above, Americans need to take additional and enchanced precautions with
regard to this areas.

Family members and non-emergency personnel of the U.S. Embassies in
Kenya and Tanzania have been authorized to depart. In Albania, Eritrea,
and Pakistan, non-emergency personnel and family members have been
ordered to depart. Consular services in these countries have been
reduced to minimal levels and in most cases to emergency citizens
services only.

American citizens travelling abroad should contact the nearest U.S.
Embassy or Consulate by telephone of FAX for up-to-date information on
security conditions. Current information on post operations is also
available on the internet at

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:17
eck333 (Rights when dealing with the police) ID#53236:
The ACLU: Are they liberal or conservative?
Or do they mostly just uphold the constitution?

I donate to them and was checking on their web site.
Rights when dealing with the police

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:16
Skip (@kapex) ID#287129:
I think that many people are afraid to publicize their comments regarding Clinton because of fear of repurcussions... If he were to become a dictator, many people ( including Starr ) would fear for their very lives.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:15
Marshall (Possible US Target list) ID#293211:
If I were to strike at the US I would target those cities with highest Jewish populations, NEW YORK CITY,LA, MIAMI . We are about to see a demostration of the playing field being leveled terror as a weapon through the use of inexpensive agents BIO/Chemical and possible backpack nukes. Water supplies will be high on the list for BIO agents.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:15
sharefin (Avid Chatter - Oldman) ID#284255:
oleman . . good trade on the BP. It's a 'piece of crap' currency. I been sellin
rallies for yrs. Short from ytd this time.

oleman . . the bondo is trying to tell us something about the stock market. Who's

oleman . . Lotsa fookes fell for Friday's spike on the bondo. I predicted a bond at
150 on this board about 20 handles ago. anybody remember?

grizzly ., you think the bond will be the fright to quality?

oleman . . Ok, class, pay attention. The crb just crashed thru 200 from the topside,
Prices paid by Purchasing mgrs had 10% drop in one month, bond is at all
time high, dollar is kicking hell out of everything, gold is south of $300
and dying, RUT making new daily lows and down over 20%, trade deficit
approaches $300B/yr, and some fokes are calling for a FED rate hike. Now
what are them fokes smokin?: )

oleman . For over 3 yrs here on this chat, the very BEST arguments, with the
most facts to support em, have been made by the BEARS. While the SPX
doubled. Now watch----as we take about half off that index, the most
logical, r ational and learned posts yuou'll see here will be by the fokes
who will prove to you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that we're still in a
BULL, and, ergo, we CANT go down. Go figure.

oleman . we WILL trade below today's settlement tomorrow ( today ) . If ytd low
goes, it's gonna be bloody in a hurry. Blood on the saddle, blood all
around, and a big red pool of blood----there upon the ground. ( Marty
Robbins, 1959 ) : )

oleman .: ADV 1356, DEC 1653. Glad you aint usin my $$$.

lowery ...couldn't make ydays lows today ..they saved them late..still feeling
the same?

grizzly . . I really would like to see a .618 retracement from where ever this leg down
ends to load up on some puts, but so far the retrace has only been able to
muster up a .382 retrace.

oleman . .Naw, I dont know. It could be a buy after the early sell in the a.m. Just
gotta wait and see. All I know for sure is that we'll see a price lower than
todays close. Dont know where we'll end up.or down.: )

oleman . Yup, we got only 38% so far. But the other 62% could come in a few
minutes if the support fails tomorrow. Tight spot here. Down a few, and its
all she wrote. Up a few more and its off to the races. Big day comin, IMO.

grizzly . . so my parents current position is 100% t-bills fund.

oleman .: You can do better than that. It may get 50%, 62%, or even 80%, like
it did in '87. Why dont you just put a fast and slow ma on the hourly chart
when we start to rally and start selling when they downcross?

oleman . .Shouldnt put your parents' dough in the mkt now, unless your no-good brother
in law is gonna inherit.: )

oleman . . I stayed short tonite, but the best indicator I ever saw appeared tonite and
it says I'll be reversing to long tomorrow.: )

oleman . The trend is now DOWN. fwiw. I was thinkin today about all those
times the last 3 years that we had a big down day, then gapped down and slid
for 30-60 minutes, and I just did what mama Gump said and bought the sucker
and coined money. I wondered as I sold it at noon, for the umpteenth ( seems
like it ) time in the last month, how many times over the next few months will
fokes buy that gap up after a couple days rally? Not me. For the foreseeable
future, I'm layin in wait fer two days of good rally and a gap up oin the
third day. You might think they wont be that frequent, but I bet there'll be
a bunch of 'em.

oleman .: If I were forced to guess right now, I'd say I'll be buying in the
morning, too. But I wont be long LONG.: )

oleman . . I look at those big up bars on today's intraday cht during that first hour
or so, and ask myself, How could anybody buy those things, unless he were
using goverment money? Course that might be just who was doing most of
it.: )

oleman . We had a gap and go ytd, after a strong reversal Fri. The gap up and
early rally today was just to make the distributees receptive for the
off-loading by the distributors. Vicious game, this. gotta flop. g'nite
and good huntin. gone...........

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:04
Copyright © 1998 Marshall/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
MILITARY INSTALLATIONS in southeast are in 100 % total control access inspection status . Ft Benning, Ga which is normally a open post, which does not even have gate entrances has implemented over 12 road block inspecting IDs for all personnel entering post. This never has occured here before to my knowlege except for Force protection training excerises . WE MUST INPEACH CLINTON at soonest ...Call your representatives immediately... Ablert Pike envisioned the need to bring mankind to the edge of the total destruction in order to save it by fully bring to power a Super UN to rule over the masses.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:01
truenorth__A (jefsilver) ID#189268:
I never said gold cant decline. I said and I will be clear about this. If
gold declines to the levels Armstrong beleives, then 95% of the mining industry will be shut down and the world will be an economic basket case. I don't beleive this will happen because if Greenspan has learned anything from the 1929 depression is that you must LOWER interest rates and not raise them like they did in 1929. This is the premise I am going on and is the reason I beleive gold will rise. This situation will probably play out over the next few months IMHO.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 01:00
mozel (@Marshall) ID#153110:
The press conference pattern seems an incredibly public telegraph. Must be no fear of the opponent. Where are there tensions that would justify war ? Iraq ?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:58
Regulus__A (Gold will Die with the Scorpions of the last resort -Amen) ID#413156:
Meek are the prettiness of so many ideas, let me be confounded for a mother century and the 7Th month of 1999 –Goodnight and may God bless us All.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:58
Who Cares?__A (Clinton will NOT resign.) ID#242328:
I'd bet hard money on it. Congress is too wishy-washy to force the

Get ready to lose your net connections and communications. I've
had my wife on alert for the past week.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:57
kapex (Martin Armstrong will most likely be the one that stands out as calling for a continued) ID#218223:
decline in Gold, Right AT the Bottom. It happens EVERY time. This time will be no different!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:57
JTF (Another reason for War Imminent) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: WJC is a smart cookie -- whatever you think of his character. Lets consider for a moment that he realizes that the US markets are about to tank some more -- perhaps AG said to him that the PPT is becoming less and less effective.

How else can he give a boost to his popularity? Perhaps we are about to have the WJC version of Desert Storm. Frightening thought. I wonder what his military objectives will be -- I'll bet number one will be how to raise his popularity with the public. And dead last will be whether the outcome of the war/skirmish accomplishes anything fundamental.

Perhaps the DEFCON2 is just a precaution due to some terrorist threat.

But wait -- what if our internal security is intentionally loosened somewhat, and the terrorists set off a bomb in the continental US. Given the way Islamic terrorists operate, they would wait until the perceived crisis blows over, and we are more vulnerable. If a terrorist bombing occurs in the continental US now, it will certainly be highly suspicious, IMHO.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:57
jefsilver7__A (good night. I got to go sell European fiats against US fiat.) ID#250205:
Hot rumor tonight Deutsch Banks will be downgraded from AAA. Well guess those Russian got the best of the Germans afteralll, not to mention Swiss Credit and Soc Gen. Now the opposition in Japan is refusing to go along with the LDP.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:55
Who Cares?__A (It's Not A War for No Reason) ID#242328:

There's a perfectly good reason. To save Bill Clinton's ass.

I've been mildlly worried about this kind of scenario for the past
six years. Y'all may not have been tracking WJC closely, but
I have. I believe that he is using some of Hitler's playbook.

The recent executive order to diminish state governments is
fully in keeping with Hitler's dissolution of Germany's representative


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:55
cherokee ( ID#288229:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee All rights reserved


what you report is only half of the story.......the taskmasters have ordained this war against the west and islam....this is described
in detail in the history of the rosthschilds....the stage set hundreds
of years the red crescent...

yes, war IS imminent....the road leading to this point well dileneated
here at kitco over the last 2 years...crude calls are still cheap...the
peopleo sellers of oil do not realize the implications of the current
fervor formenting in the oil regions of the world.....crude to $50bbl
before dec99 calls await.......$210 each......

this event will catapult gold into the strato-sphere...burst the stock
bubble...cause oil to hit $75bbl in less than 3 months...and evenly
distribute chaos and flux to the masses of peopleo around the world..
those normally insulated---due to money---will have their teat wrested
from their milk stained lips....the harsh reality of the masses will suffer
many to an early demise... though the 'machine' might collapse is
occuring today.


Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:55
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, Third In the House of ARAGORN...drenched be me, drenched in the) ID#373284:
thunder clouds that is your caring, dreaming that I might know the cusp of your breakfast tables...I really Love you guys...thanks for caring...all that is me will protect all that is you and death I will not fear...if I had a child the quilt would be made of your thoughts so the baby might sleep well...

mine eyes will close peacefully knowing the two of you and your families are in this world...NAMASTE'

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:53
jefsilver7__A (truenorth: When gold was $875, people were opening mines) ID#250205:
Copyright © 1998 jefsilver7__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
in their backyards. At the bottom of every cycle, the opposite must happen. Just like in real estate. In Toronto they were knocking down buildings to reduce taxes. That was the bottom in real estate. At the peak, they were puting up office space everywhere. Low grade mining became possible only because gold went to $875. Before then, deep mines survived with high grade. I think if gold hits $190 it will be because the dollar goes to the moon. In order for bull markets to develop, mining has to take a big hit like oil did and is. Again, I think people are mixing up facts to say Armstrong is wrong and are not looking at what he is saying about timing. You can't simply say gold can't decline because mines will close. That's like saying the stock market can't crash because people will lose money. From my experience, markets will ALWAYS move against what the majority want. If it goes to such extremes in stocks, real estate and currencies, it will do so in metals too. I agree with Armstrong that it is a matter of timing. What price is reached will depend upon who nuts the world really gets.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:51
kapex (Dear god in heaven above, I hope this pitiful poor excuse for a (Person)) ID#218223:
President RESIGNS before he does any more damage to this country. What Contempt this guy has for us. ( I feel your pain ) Unbelievable! Do any of you, other than the illinformed still defend this guy?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:46
Marshall (Pentagon Suspends Press Conferences) ID#293211:
Copyright © 1998 Marshall/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Normal weekly scheduled Pentagon press briefings usually held at 1:30 PM on tuesdays, are suspended for the period 24 Aug- 4 sept 98. The Deputy Assisant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs ( Information ) and director , Directorate for Defense Information will be avaibable during this period for the on-the-record or background statements and, should the situation warrent, onthe record breifings. THIS HAPPENED right before the INVASION of GRANDA, DESERT STORM and the INVASION of PANAMA. Alot of people are about to die.... May GOD SAVE a Portion of America...

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:45
ERLE (Bill El Zebub.) ID#190411:
Why would you want to eviscerate Prechter and Armstrong? If you did their heads would become dislodged from their butts.

....Viewing the darkness through a prechtosope. == Wow, I see waves.
It must be peristalsis!

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:43
JTF (War Imminent?) ID#57232:
Marshall, Old Soldier, Retired Soldier: Anyone know if this is the real thing, or 'Wag the Dog'? This could be WJC trying to pick a fight because he is losing his popularity.

This worries me. Anyone know anything more? The last thing we want is a war for no reason whatsoever.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:42
Dave (@yea they inheriet ) ID#261155:
6 feet of it. ^s^

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:41
Mike Sheller (Potted Pouri) ID#347447:
ORIS: I have the solution, Tovarisch. We back the ruble with Vodka!

MURRSTEIN: True metaphysical Space is NO THING.

REGULUS: I am here to humbly serve so that the meek shall inherit the Earth.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:37
Copyright © 1998 MURRSTEIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There is no such thing as an empty space, a space without field.
Space time does not claim existence on its own, but only as a
structural quality of the field. There exists no space empty of
field. Mind is massed, as in this case, the collective mind of
most of this planet. Mind is massed and the worlds are born.
Pain will soon turn to gain. Y2K and the EURO are looming on
the horizon like twin locomotives on steel rails at light speed.
The time frame is short indeed. Most of you goldbugs I would say
might after all the loss might be coined, ( pardon pun ) , meek.
But think hard on this, you fully know where it says ,THE MEEK
WILL INHERIT THE EARTH. I think this will soon happen and I am
no goldbug. But my thinking is quickly changing.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:37
Regulus__A (A man for many Seasons) ID#413156:
Mike Sheller -When the candle burns out and the magic turns to Gold and old age ( Tired of the past ) becomes not. Then let all know your true goal. Let the Stars Shine.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:37
JTF (Gold trends; Gold a commodity or currency?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
RJ: Glad to hear you are no longer a gold bear -- I gather your news gathering network has picked up the CB buying instead of selling news. Am I right that your shift is based on assuming there are no gold fire sales from a currency collapse? I think we can rule out Venezuela, probably Russia, probably Japan, but what of Germany? How will they handle their defaulted Russian debt problems? I'm still dumbfounded as to how the 1+ trillion in bad debt from the Oct 97 SEAsia episode is going to be rolled over into some taxpayers lap, let alone Japanese and Communist Chinese debt.

My point is that we all know the equilibrium price of gold may not go below 280/oz in the near future, but there is certainly enough life left in the 'fiat' currency system for another 'gold fire sale'. Perhaps we need ping II, as sharefin would say before we can pile into gold and gold equities with impunity.

Eventual bottoming of the commodity price indices would certainly be bullish for gold. It is interesting that the CRY0 futures index is the one that is plummeting, not the JOC spot index. This just reflects the current powerful anti-gold ( deflationary ) sentiment. But -- just wait till CRY0 bottoms!

Gold as a commodity or money? I think Armstrong has a point. Gold is not now used as money, except at the LBMA, in very select Central Banking circles, big governments and the BIS. To the most of the rest of us it is still a commodity. How else do you explain the strength of the US dollar? Where Armstrong is wrong is that gold will not remain a commodity if a major buffeting hits the US dollar, with no other viable 'fiat' currency in sight. Then gold will shine. So, Armstrong is right now -- and wrong later.

Aragorn III -- I still challenge you to show me that COMEX gold trading is essentially the same as LBMA gold trading -- I suspect that the big guys prefer the LBMA -- if for nothing else, the privacy. Last I heard, '2000 or tonnes/day' traded at LBMA - which probably is based on face gold value of all trades, derivatives included. And what would be the face gold value of all trades on COMEX? I'll bet it is dwindling with the gold reserves. I would certainly like to be wrong about this.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:36
truenorth__A (Jefsilver7@23:08) ID#189268:
Copyright © 1998 truenorth__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A couple of points Jeff. Why would he buy a gold mine if he truly believed gold will head down to $190 per oz?. Second Greenspan may not have any choice but to cut interest rates. The world is deflating rapidly and it is being felt by many sectors of the American economy. Look at the farmers and many high-tech firms. Recently syquest let go of 85% of their work force and today Applied Materials cut 2200 people. Ask the longshoremen from the POrts of Long Beach and Los Angeles about the jam packed cargoes coming from Asia and the empty cargoes going back. The farmers can apply for subsidies and did recently miners basically can't. What is really happening is that the US economy is not as strong as people believe. Consider that two-thirds of the domestic economy is the
consumer. Today for the second consecutive consumer confidence declined. Consider that car loans and personal loans are tied to the prime rate which is 8.5% and mortgages are tied to the 10 year bond rate. What is really going on is that the American consumer is not saving ( saving rate 0.6% ) , is re-financing their home with a first or second mortgage therefore getting money @ less than 5.5%. This is how the consumer is continuing to spend more than they make. This can continue for a while but if there is a major crash or correction you will have margin calls and the consumer confidence number will plummet and so will the economy.

You state that there are many mines that are profitable at $150. Name a few. Let's take Barrick as an example, considered one of the premier mines in the world. Their cash cow the Betz-Post mine produced 1.6 million oz @$171. This is not an all inclusive number however. They would have a hard time producing gold @$150. Most companies would be bankrupt. I stand by this statement. Ask someone in the minng industry if you don't believe me.

Finally stating that countries have had their currencies devalued so they can survive isn't really realistic. How much exploration is going on in Australia or Canada? I am not totally familiar with australian environment but in Canada there is very little exploration because mining companies are having a hard time raising capital. You can't produce gold if you can't get money to continue operations. I stand by my comments about Armstrong.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:36
Copyright © 1998 Marshall/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I relay the following information with extreme concern. I have been retired from the US Army for two years and have a son on active duty now. All American forces in Germany and Naval units in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean have been placed in defense Condition #2 ( War is Imminent ) Israeli forces have gone to full war status National Guard asking for vo
lunteers for immediate middle east deployment. All passes and leaves for American troops in germany ( combat units ) have been cancelled ( my son included ) US Naval vessels have been dirverted from port to middle east. WAR IN MIDDLE EAST IS IMMINENT...
s A lot of people are about to lose their life...Thanks in part to Comrade Clinton the biggest Traitor in American History.....

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:33
jefsilver7__A (fiveliter: I don't see Y2K taking world back to barter) ID#250205:
Copyright © 1998 jefsilver7__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Even if you assume the worse case scenario, in order for society to move back to a barter state you are assuming order rather than chaos. If Y2K was really as bad as some try to make it, there will be no barter. The hoards of people on welfare have nothing to barter. They will come take your gold, food, wife and maybe leave the kids. I seriously doubt that gold would help much. Society can't make such abrupt changes in an orderly fashion. That's the crisis in Russia. They never paid taxes under communism and they are not willing to pay them now. You get sheer chaos. If Y2K was really that bad, you are talking war. In that case, I think food rises to the top of the list because you can't eat gold.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:32
Selby (The WJC is upset) ID#286230:

Good night

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:25
sharefin (Shadowfax) ID#284255:
I have not heard of this.

Maybe related to the coming derivatives boom...

Swing chart updated
Still heading up.
Watch out next time it heads down.

Seems like a dead rally.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:24
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 25, 1998

Japan opposition boycotts debate, bills in doubt

TOKYO, Aug 26 ( Reuters ) - Japan's political opposition faced off against the government on Wednesday, boycotting debate on government bills meant to rid banks of their mountain of bad loans.

After late-night discussions, three key opposition groups agreed to jointly submit their own counter-proposals to the government's plans, a move that will likely delay any legislation and make overseas markets even more nervous about Japan's willingness to tackle the huge bank problem.

The boycott is meant to protest the government's treatment of the ailing Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan Ltd ( LTCB ) , seen by the opposition as a taxpayer-funded bailout.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:24
Bill El Zebub (Guys and Gals , your too locked into the trivial to see the big picture! Less) ID#261352:
chit chat and more thinking. Please?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:22
fiveliter (Jefsilver7) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The point I was trying to make was that a fiat currency derives its value from the government and economy that issues it. When either cease to function properly ( or possibly at all ) the currency has little or no purchasing power. Right now this is happening all over the world as currencies and even commodities devalue relative to the U.S. dollar representing the strongest economy and military in the world. What happens to the dollar when we join them via Y2K? Very short term we'd get massive deflation since something like 98% of the money is electronic and is either inaccessible or has gone to e-heaven. A little while after that, with the country possible in chaos and the federal government probably in the worst shape of all, people will stop seeing dollars as money and start seeing them as just paper. They'll barter instead and will want tangible goods and services in exchange for their tangibles. When that happens the dollar is done for. Sounds crazy right now in summer '98 but who knows in spring 2000? I sure don't so I'm diversifying into electrons, paper and metal. BBML.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:21
Selby (Who Cares?__A) ID#286230:
Thanks. Odd he doesn't have that on his web site yet but maybe he is saving it for tomorrow.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:18
AZAU (leadership) ID#257253:
We are indeed fortunate here in USA to have living examples of the way we
expect leaders to be. Let us now dump those that do not live up and try to at least recapture credibility in the community of man. This will not cost us anything, at least in inflated US$ terms.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:16
Who Cares?__A (Drudge Report) ID#242328:
Copyright © 1998 Who Cares?__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Drudge was live on a television show. A brief confirmation of
his comments are in alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater, under
the heading DRUDGE SCOOP. I confirmed this story with
my sister who saw the television show. Here's the posting,

Drudge is reporting that Lewinsky testified that her
credit card bill was paid in exchange for her

No details.

Hmmmm...I wonder....does the Constitution mention
anything about bribery and impeachment?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:15
Hedgehog (Trouble is fat lady will be singing) ID#39857:
The Second Law of Thermodynamics in A Major

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:14
Bill El Zebub (Eviscerate Armstrong and Prector!) ID#261352:

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:11
Bill El Zebub (Greenspan Reveals Finances. He ownes 'at least 2.4 mil in short-term) ID#261352:
treasuries and 466,000 in money market and credit union accounts
at the end of 1997'according to APress recently. Does he think
the shee shee is hitting the fan?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:10
Selby (Who Cares?__A ) ID#286230:
Where is the Drudge report on credit cards?

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:08
oris (AZAU) ID#238422:
Indeed, this is some kind of indirect proof what really
took place. When people have nothing to hide, they are
looking for honorable person to back them most
cases it's a natural attitude.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:08
Selby (CC) ID#286230:
Nope. I'm like the C$. But I wouldn't be any better off with a lot of gold in the bank either.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:07
Who Cares?__A (Clinton - The Clown is going down) ID#242328:

Today, Matt Drudge reported that Monica Lewinsky had her credit cards paid off by the White House. THAT, my friends, is a CLEAR PAPER TRAIL.

There are also rumors of more kinky sex stories on the way, involving Monica's body fluids and mentrual cycle.

And one poster in alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater claims to have a source in D.C. that has confirmed that drug use is a topic of investigation by Starr. : )

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:06
SDRer__A (For troubled economy, choices are 'soft landing'-or depression [hard landing] ) ID#286249:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Hiroshi Ota Yomiuri Shimbun Business Editor,
Wednesday August 26. 1998
Another factor contributing to the sell-off of Japanese assets is the vanity of U.S. dealers who claim that the Japanese government and financial authorities are incompetent.

What does the hard landing that they advocate actually mean?

Does it mean that, weakened by the collapse of the biggest economic bubble in history--with the loss of 1.3 yen quadrillion--big banks should end up at the mercy of ruthless international speculators and possibly be thrown out of business?

That would trigger a depression--not just for Japan but for the world.

Those who argue for a hard landing apparently do not know their financial ABCs. It would merely play into the hands of the international speculative fund and hedge fund operators who reaped huge profits by systematically selling Japanese financial shares short during the panic last November.

It is a fundamental responsibility of the government and the central bank to protect the nation, and in turn the international financial system, from market violence.

The difficulty in resolving the problems originates from the fact that the financial world functions on the basis of trust, a highly unstable commodity.

In playing to the masses and hard-landing advocates, the media could end up responsible for a depression. As a member of the media myself, I must give this matter some serious thought.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:06
jefsilver7__A (CC: I don't think gold would stay down for 12 to 18 months) ID#250205:
Copyright © 1998 jefsilver7__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
if it hits either Armstrong's target of $190 or Precheter's target of $100, it would most likely be a spike low with a nice V bottom. From what I can tell from historical chart patterns, the longer something lingers like the metals are doing now, the higher the probability that they will move lower. Silver gave you 1 chance to sell at $7.50 for about 15 seconds. How many times have we been under $5 - too many from what I can tell. A good bottom should be like a top. You are either ready or misss the boat. Chances are, if gold went to $190, the dollar would be up in nearly the same percentage terms so I don't think mines ourside of the US will be effected as much by $200 gold as the price may sound. Gold shouldn't drop to $200 if the dollar declines. If it does, it would most likely happen if the dollar takes off big time.

Date: Wed Aug 26 1998 00:00
CC (Selby) ID#334219:
Copyright © 1998 CC/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
On Canada's economic health: Let say that your currently earn $100K per year and until last year you were spending several $K above your revenus. During these years of spending more than you earned, you built a debt that now exceed somewhat your $100K of annual revenus...and of course, your bank put the squeeze on you...asking to control your expenses..which you did. You are now in good shape because you now spend a bit less than you you can start to pay a few dimes on your debt every year..
You think your fine.

All this occured during 15-20 years of great economic expansion when you had stable and growing revenus. But now, the recession and possibly a depression is just around the corner. It is possible that some unforeseen problems will cause interest rates to rise big time...or worst, your employer could possibly cut your salary or even your job if things get that rough.. Keep in mind you can no longer cut in your expenses as you are running lean and mean.

Selby...are you in good shape ?

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