Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:56
Goldteck (Full storyLow-key dinner marks Clinton's 52nd birthday ) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

11:33 p.m. Aug 19, 1998 Eastern

By Steve Holland

EDGARTOWN, Mass. ( Reuters ) - Two days after admitting to an affair, President Clinton on Wednesday celebrated his 52nd birthday with a quiet dinner at the home of Vernon Jordan, himself a key player in the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Clinton, his wife and daughter Chelsea arrived late Wednesday at the Chilmark, Mass. sheep farm rented by Jordan and retreated behind its sturdy stone wall for what aides said would be a quiet dinner and low-key birthday party.

It was a far cry from the raucous celebration staged on the island of Martha's Vineyard last year, a loud, late-night party with an eclectic group of celebrities, high-powered lawyers, authors and artists.

On the first full day of a 12-day vacation on Martha's Vineyard, the Clintons were ``spending quite a lot of time together as a family, just lounging around,'' White House spokesman Mike McCurry said.

He had no comment on reports that Clinton had provided a DNA sample to investigators who are trying to determine if stains on a dress given to prosecutors by Lewinsky contained the president's DNA.

In Washington, White House spokesman Jim Kennedy said: ``On Monday night the president acknowledged an improper relationship and apologized for that. He also said it's time to reclaim his privacy and we're going to respect that, and not comment on every leak that comes out of this investigation.''

The Clintons were staying at the same borrowed Oyster Pond estate in which they have stayed on two of their three previous trips to this vacation island off the coast of Massachusetts.

This time, however, there are some unpleasant truths that overshadow all that they do -- Clinton's stunning televised admission on Monday night that he had an inappropriate sexual relationship with Lewinsky inside the White House, where she was a young intern, and misled his family about it.

Clinton emerged from seclusion in mid-afternoon to walk Buddy. Strolling alone in blue jeans, blue T-shirt and sweater tied around his neck, he walked down the road near his home, Secret Service agents trailing behind.

Some members of Congress called on him to resign, as did some newspaper editorials. Television news coverage was unrelenting.

McCurry said he doubted whether Clinton was reading about himself or watching the news, and said Clinton had never considered resigning over the events of the past week.

``I think the president is confident that he enjoys the trust of the American people who elected him and he will continue to do the work that he was elected to do,'' he said.

The Clintons emerged for the first time from their vacation home on Wednesday night for a small birthday dinner party for Clinton at the vacation home of long-time friend Jordan.

It was Jordan, a prominent Washington lawyer, who tried to get Lewinsky a job. Independent counsel Kenneth Starr suspects the effort was an attempt to keep her quiet about the affair with the president.

Jordan has been one of Clinton's favored golfing partners during his years as president, and the two families regularly have Christmas dinner together, but the two friends have kept their distance since the Lewinsky scandal erupted in January.

Jordan, who spends his August vacation here every summer, greeted the Clintons as they emerged from Air Force One on Tuesday.

McCurry was asked whether Clinton was trying to inject a note of defiance to Starr's investigation by embracing Jordan and spending time with him here.

``He's spending his birthday evening with his friend. That's all I would read into that,'' he said.

The small number of staff who accompanied the president here were keeping their distance from the first family. Clinton brought McCurry, political adviser Doug Sosnik and a national security aide. Mrs. Clinton had social secretary Capricia Marshall and personal aide Kelly Craighead with her.

The president's workload was limited. He got a foreign policy update from National Security Adviser Sandy Berger by telephone and was otherwise reading thrillers and relaxing.

Sosnik said Clinton was anxious to get back to his national agenda.

``When he's done with vacation, he'll go back to doing the work of the nation,'' he said. ``That's the job he's going to continue to do.''

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:56
blooper (Flash) ID#207145:
Since you have no gonads, Viagra would be wasted on you.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:53
Who Cares?__A (Chinese Treason, Part III - Freeh's Testimony to Congress) ID#242328:
Copyright © 1998 Who Cares?__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Gee whiz, what I can't figure out is why the London Telegraph
pretty much reported all of this BEFORE the November '96
elections.... but nobody in the U.S. media noticed.


For education and discussion. Not for commercial use.

Freeh: We're Investigating Clinton/FBI Still Withholding National
Security Information From President

Human Events, The National Conservative Weekly 14 August 1998 Staff

In one of the most dramatic snippets of congressional testimony in
recent decades, FBI Director Louis Freeh told the House Government
Reform and Oversight Committee last week that his agency is actively
investigating President Clinton and Vice President Gore for possibly
committing criminal acts in the course of their 1996 re-election

The testimony came after senior Democrats on the committee, led by
ranking minority member Henry Waxman ( Calif. ) , filibustered the
proceedings for more than an hour in an apparent effort to push Freeh's
testimony out of the prime morning news cycle into the lunch hour.

In what was clearly a carefully coordinated strategy with Atty. Gen.
Janet Reno, Rep. Tom Lantos ( D-Calif. ) even went so far as [to]
interrupt Freeh's testimony to read aloud a lengthy letter that Reno had
sent that morning to committee Democrats—not to Chairman Dan Burton
( R-Ind. ) . As Freeh sat mutely at the witness table, Lantos's recitation
of Reno's written complaints consumed more than twice the time that had
been allotted each committee member to speak.

Reno's PR Gambit During Freeh's testimony, Reno called a press
conference at the Justice Department to repeat the substance of her
confrontational letter to the committee. This was a classic
tactic—pulled right out of chapter one of the elementary textbook on
public relations—designed to deflect press attention from the
significance of what her FBI director was confirming in sworn testimony
across town.

The gambit worked. The next morning most major newspapers ran front-page
headlines portraying the committee hearing as a mere political
tit-for-tat pitting Reno against Burton.

The New York Times, for example ran its story about the hearing—by
political reporter David Rosenbaum—below the fold on the front page.
Rosenbaum's lead paragraph said, Atty. Gen. Janet Reno and a House
investigative committee approached a showdown today over whether she
should ask for an independent counsel to prosecute campaign finance

The Washington Postran its story about the hearing on page A10.

The Post did not mention Freeh's remarkable testimony that he is
investigating President Clinton and Vice President Gore, until the 12th
paragraph of the story. The New York Times story mentioned this crucial
point in its 19th paragraph.

Freeh, Charles LaBella, who is out-going director of the Justice
Department task force investigating the campaign finance scandal, and
James DeSarno, the lead FBI investigator on the case, made other
startling revelations that were either minimized, or not even reported,
by most major news outlets. They included:

•The FBI is continuing to withhold national security information from
President Clinton because of its importance to their criminal
investigation of his activities.

• Investigators fear that if the White House sees the memos Freeh and
LaBella have written to Reno outlining the reasons she must name an
independent counsel, President Clinton and Vice President Gore and other
covered persons would be tipped off to evidence and lead the
investigators are pursuing.

• Clinton political appointees in the Justice Department have been given
copies of the memos.

• Atty. Gen. Janet Reno has consulted Clinton political appointees about
what action to take regarding LaBella's July 16 memo advising her to
name an independent counsel, but she has not consulted Freeh, LaBella or

• The Chinese government is stonewalling the Justice Department's
investigation of illegal campaign contributios that were funneled into
the United States from China. Unlike the entourage of 1,200 friends and
advisors who accompanied the President on his June trip to China, FBI
and Justice Department investigators have been refused visas to enter
that country.

• FBI and Justice Department investigators have also been denied access
to Chinese banking records that could demonstrate the ultimate source of
illegal contributions made to the Clinton-Gore reelection campaign and
the Democratic National Committee.

Freeh's dramatic admission that he is investigating the President and
Vice President came quickly after the Democratic filibuster petered out
and the FBI director had finally been sworn in by Burton.

The Independent Counsel Act includes what are referred to as mandatory
and discretionary provisions. Under the mandatory provision, the
attorney general is compelled to call for the naming of an independent
counsel whenever credible evidence is discovered that indicates a
covered person ( such as the President or Vice President ) may have
committed a crime.

Under the discretionary provision, the attorney general is given the
authorith to call for an independent counsel whenever he or she believes
it would create at least the appearance of a conflict of interest for
the attorney general to investigate someone.

In explaining why he believed Reno should invoke both the mandatory and
discretionary provisions of the law in connection with the campaign
finance scandal, Freeh said, I would say, generally, that the subject
matter of the investigation, both in 1997 and certainly now in 1998,
involves a core group of individuals who, in my view, are indisputably
covered persons [under the Independent Counsel Act], and that the nature
of that inquiry revolved around those covered persons, their associates
and what I believe are potential violations of federal criminal law.

I believe that the core group, which is the subject of this
investigation, includes both covered people, where the statute would
require a referral, but also people who, because of their association
with covered people, would also, on a discretionary basis, trigger the

'Does That Include the President?'

Burton pushed for specificity. I don't know if you want to answer
this, he said, but does that include the President and the Vice

Freeh rocked back in his chair and took a deep breath. Then he leaned
forward to the microphone. Yes, sir, he said.

Tellingly, LaBella testified that his argument that Atty. Gen. Janet
Reno should name an independent counsel was based far more on the
mandatory provision of the Independent Counsel Act—meaning that
evidence had been discovered that a covered person ( such as the
President or Vice President ) may have committed a crime—than on the
discretionary provision—which would signal only that an associate of a
covered person ( such as a friend or political ally of the President or
Vice President ) may have committed a crime.

This is how LaBella explained it to Burton:

LaBella: The discretionary clause of the Independent Counsel [Act]
played a very small part in my memorandum of recommendation to the
attorney general.

Burton: Okay. Now, the mandatory section is triggered when there is
specific information from a credible source about a covered person. So,
in your investigation did you find that there was sufficient information
on a covered person to trigger the mandatory part of the statute? And
you don't need to be specific about who it would be.

LaBella: Right. My recommendation was that an independent counsel
should be appointed at this time, and it was appropriate to do so at
this time.

Burton: So, you're saying the mandatory was triggered as well?

LaBella: That's the clause—is the major clause which is analyzed in my
report to the attorney general.

When asked whether he agree with the conclusion of Freeh and LaBella
that an independent counsel should be named, lead FBI investigator
DeSarno said, I do, yes sir.

Evidently concerned about the sensitive nature of the criminal
information incorporated in his memo to Reno, LaBella said, I only made
three copies. He kept one and gave one each to Freeh and Reno.

He then learned, however, that at least nine copies might have been
distributed to people in Justice. He had heard second hand, he said,
that those nine people included Deputy Atty. Gen. Eric Holder and
Principal Deputy Associate Atty. Gen. Robert Litt, both of whom are
political appointees.

Freeh, LaBella and DeSarno astounded many committee members when all
three testified that they were not invited to attend a July 21 meeting
held by Reno to discuss LaBella's memorandum with Justice Department
officials. In fact, they hadn't even been told about the meeting—which
was subsequently reported in the New York Times

Not for Clinton's or Gore's Eyes

At length, a persistent Rep. Bob Barr ( R-Ga. ) was able to extract sworn
testimony from Freeh and LaBella that they did not want President
Clinton and Vice President Gore to see copies of LaBella's memo because
that might compromise their investigation:

Barr: . . . Is the real fear, then, that the White House would get
ahold of this memo and be able to use it in much the same way that they
have used information that they have gleaned from other witnesses that
have appeared before Kenneth Starr's grand jury?

LaBella: My fear would be that any potential witness or any potential
subject or target of the investigation would get his or her hands on
this report and use it to the detriment of the investigators or the

Barr: . . . That would include the President and the Vice President—

LaBella: It would include anybody.

Barr: . . . I mean—but you think it's important that no covered person
have access to this?

LaBella: I think it's important that no one within the range, whether
they're covered, noncovered, within the range of our criminal
investigation, be given access to this document.

Barr: That includes—I'm not asking whose names are in that—

LaBella: Yes, it would include—

Barr: —includes the President and the Vice President.

LaBella: It would include everybody within the parameters of this
investigation, within the parameters of this report.

Barr: Including the President and Vice President.

Freeh: ( sic ) Yeah.

Barr: . . . I'm saying in your opinion, as well as mine, I think that
it's important that no covered person, and that includes a whole range
of people, including the President and the Vice President, should have
access to that report. And maybe that is a good reason why it should not
be made public.

LaBella: I mean, I think that's a correct statement.

LaBella and DeSarno testified that the Chinese government had not
cooperated in anyway with the investigation. In fact, the Chinese
government had not only denied the Justice Department and the FBI access
to Chinese banking records that could reveal the ultimate source of
illegl contributions funneled into the United States, but the Chinese
also denied visas to U.S. investigators trying to interview key
witnesses who have fled the United States and taken refure under the
Beijing government.

Has the Chinese government cooperated in any way that you are aware
of? Burton asked LaBella.

Not to my knowledge, said LaBella.

When you asked for visas, you didn't get them? Burton asked DeSarno.

Yes, sir, said the FBI's lead investigator.

Despite President Clinton's public statement in China in June that he
believed Chinese President Jiang Zemin's declaration that the Chinese
government had not been involved in laundering campaign contributions
into the Democratic Party. Freeh confirmed that he is still
investigating the Chinese connection.

Aren't your people continuing to investigate foreign links, and not
accepting Jiang's denials? Burton asked.

Yes, sir, said Freeh.

Freeh confirmed that the FBI and the Justice Department have a review
process for determining whether national security information should be
withheld from the President's National Security Council ( NSC ) . It's a
case-by-case review, said Freeh. It's fact-specific, but there are
instances where information has not gone to the NSC.

Freeh explained that the development of national security information,
in the context of the criminal investigation, which has clearly
occurred, requires a very careful and very delicate balancing and review
by myself and the attorney general. And that there are occasions when
information we both agree should pass, there have been instances, not
many, but instances where we have agreed that it should not pass.

If Clinton Knew. . .

So, according to the sworn testimony of the director of the FBI, the
attorney general herself has agreed that there have been instances in
this investigation when the Commander-in-Chief of the United States
could not be trusted with national security information because his
awareness of that information might compromise the investigation.

Yet she won't name an independent counsel, nor will she comply with a
subpoena from Dan Burton's committee demanding that she hand over
expurgated versions of Freeh's and LaBella's memos, from which all grand
jury information has been redacted.

The committee voted on August 6 to hold Reno in contempt of Congress for
defying its subpoena. The issue will now go to the full House when
members return after Labor Day.

Meanwhile, 11 senators have gone on record with HUMAN EVENTS in
agreement with the recent declaration by Senate Majority Whip Don
Nickles ( R-Okla. ) that Reno should resign if she doesn't name and
independent counsel.

While all eyes in Washington are on the Monica Lewinsky affair, the lid
may finally be about to blow off Janet Reno's cover-up of the Chinese
money-laundering scandal.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:51
PH in LA (Replies: (Quickies)) ID#225408:
Blooper: OK, OK!!! You sure are right! Two wrongs do make a right! Or is that three? How Libertarian!

Who Cares?: Thank God for the voice of experience. Eight years and what's to show for it? Complete mastery of English grammar? What have you been doing these eight years, man?

Kapex: Who said it's just about SEX? It's not! It's about lying about SEX! That sure is a lot different, isn't it?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:49
Who Cares?__A (Chinese Treason, Part II - Media Turns a Blind Eye) ID#242328:
Copyright © 1998 Who Cares?__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Turn back now, or face sleepless nights wondering why Ted
Koppel played an EDITED Waco FLIR tape for the American


A Weekly View from the Foothills of Appalachia

August 15, 1998 #98

by:Doug Fiedor

Previous Editions at:>


The primary reason the Washington press corps supported Clinton in 1992
was that they thought Bush was boring. The administration was
basically an older lot. There were few good parties. No fun. After
eight years of Reagan and four of Bush, the media people wanted some
social excitement around town.

One problem, back in 1992, was that Ron Brown was Chairman of the
Democratic National Committee. Brown had been Jessie Jackson's
campaign chairman during Jackson's failed presidential campaign four
years previously, and giving Brown the chairmanship of the DNC was
part of a package deal made with Jackson to get him to shut up so a
viable candidate might have a chance.

Another problem was that no one bothered to properly vet Ron Brown
before giving him the DNC job. Then came Clinton, who no one bothered
to vet properly, either. The two were what is called in the business
world, a good fit. Unfortunately, Clinton was running for President
of the United States at the time. The Washington press corps wanted
someone who would be exciting and fun. Consequently, everything
derogatory was overlooked.

Somewhere back then ( the exact time frame is still secret ) , the
National Security Agency, through their Echelon communications
listening network, began intercepting some very interesting messages
between communist China and the Chinese Embassy in Washington. NSA
passed the information on to the FBI, and the FBI warned a few involved
Members of Congress. Communist China was laundering illegal money into
Congressional campaign funds and some Members of Congress had taken
the money.

No one would be arrested, because the government had come by this
information illegally. Therefore, the FBI did no more than pay a
courtesy call on the targeted Members of Congress and warn them.
Five years later, the Senate Committee Chairman in charge of
investigating illegal campaign finance money laundering was privately
briefed on this very same information. For reasons of national
security, Senator Fred Thompson decided to keep the information under
wraps. Permanently.

Now we learn that, not only did Bill Clinton know of the illegal China
campaign finance money laundering connection, he personally knows many
of the players. Many of them have been to the White House numerous
times. A few of the lower echelon players have already been indicted.
Numerous others have fled the country.

The Chinese connection was playing with some big bucks, too.
Published accounts show that there were easily four to five million
dollars illegally made available to affect political campaigns. And,
that's just what we know about right now -- the money that was
laundered improperly. There is no telling how much more illegal money
was laundered into campaign funds more expertly, and undetected.

But the Chinese know. It would be a good bet that they have a very
good accounting of how much was offered, and exactly who got it.
That's the problem.

Without comment, let's look at a few well published events since the
1992 Presidential election.

Ron Brown became Secretary of Commerce. Suddenly Asia, and especially
China, was on the top of his commerce list. Two of Clinton's foreign
born Asian buddies were placed in position of influence, one with top
secret clearance, in the Department of Commerce . Ron Brown was
selling seats on his Asian excursions for campaign donations. The
largest American Democratic contributor of campaign funds just so
happened to want to sell high tech equipment to communist China, and
was almost indicted for doing so improperly -- until Clinton fixed

We probably shouldn't forget White House approval for the fancy machine
tooling necessary to make nukes to point at us, sophisticated
encryption equipment and software, super computers, high tech
communications equipment for their military and police, satellite and
cell phone technology, and lots and lots of military technology.
Communist China ( and/or, their agents ) was also allowed to buy a few
banks here and float over $8 billion is potentially worthless bonds in
our market.

The fact is, there is not much communist China did not get from us
under the Clinton administration. They spread around a few million
dollars in illegal campaign funds and bought the right to buy enough
top secret military technology to make their military a direct threat
to the United States. Thanks to the Clinton administration, communist
China can now nuke any American city any day they wish.

Lately, Chinese Ambassador Li Change even had the audacity to warn the
United States against going forward with the Strategic Defense
Initiative, or star wars program. Clinton, of course, dutifully came
out against star wars. So did some of communist China's friends in

Yet, all we heard from the media this past week or two is how much
Clinton should or should not lie about his sexcapades in his up- coming
grand jury testimony and address to the public. Congress is no
better. Congress wants the China connection kept quiet because many
of them are involved in it too.

It's the economy, stupid! Yeah. The campaign finance economy. And,
by their neglect, the national press corps is covering it up.


Due to the outright negligence and dereliction of duty of the Treasury
and Justice Departments, Congress received a lot of complaints from
constituents and State officials. The problem was the alarming number
of illegal aliens taking up residence in many States.

However, instead of conducting hearings and calling the negligent
agency directors in for some dully deserved chastising, Congress
compounded the problem by piling on more stupid laws.

In 1996, Congress passed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant
Responsibility Act. That law requires all states to make their
driver's licenses comply with the strict guidelines set down in the
act. That is, as of Oct. 1, 2000, States must provide specialized
identification cards, such as a driver's license, to all citizens. The
new ID cards are to include digitized biometric information such as
fingerprints, retina scans and/or DNA prints. Which means, all
Americans must have their papers in order three months before the next
president takes office.

Also, there is to be a federal database of American workers. Which
means, some minor federal bureaucrat will have the ability to keep an
American citizen from getting a job.

All this came about simply because the federal government does not do
its job of protecting our borders. Because public servants are
negligent, all Americans are expected to suffer the loss of liberty.

Also in 1996, two Congressional socialists joined to further suspend
liberty in an atrocious piece of legislation called the Kennedy
-Kassebaum health-care bill. The proposed intent of that bill was to
allow workers to carry their health insurance with them when they leave
a job. However, the law also requires that a unique health-
identifier number be assigned to every American citizen. It matters
not whether a citizen has public or private health-care insurance,
either. Everyone is to get the identification number.

Everyone is also to have their complete medical history -- womb to tomb
-- stored in a federal government database. No word yet if federal
bureaucrats will also be able to deny medical treatment, but one can
bet that will be the case within a few years. There is already concern
that law-enforcement officials will be able to gain access to the
database. This type of database would be a gold mine of information
for the IRS and FBI. There will be no medical privacy in the United
States. Nearly everything any nosy bureaucrat wants to know about any
American citizen will be just a couple mouse clicks away ..

Also passed in 1996 were the Welfare Act and the Welfare Reform Act.
These laws require a federal database for Social Security numbers ,
commercial driver's licenses, professional and occupational licenses,
marriage licenses, welfare benefits, divorce proceedings, and child-
support orders. There is also something about a National Directory of
New Hires registry, which is intended to allow bureaucrats in the new
Federal Parent Locator Service to easily hunt down deadbeat parents.

These databases tie in with all of the government's other databases, of
course. Therefore, all welfare agencies, the Social Security
Administration, the IRS, the Treasury Department, Health and Human
Services, and the Justice Department will have instant access to all
data on all American citizens.

Last year, Congress noticed that it forgot an agency. So, Congress
passed the Computer Assisted Passenger Screening System ( CAPS ) . CAPS,
so they say, allows the FAA to develop a profile of every aircraft
passenger, complete with lifetime travel patterns. FAA says that will
protect us against terrorists. It must be working. We don't have any
aircraft terrorists.

All of the above programs have two rather interesting aspects in
common: None are authorized powers allowed the federal government by
the Constitution. Worse yet, all are a violation of the Fourth
Amendment to the Constitution:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches, shall not be violated, and
no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and
the persons or things to be seized.

Clearly, any Member of Congress voting for any of these laws violated
their oath of office. So too did the President for signing the bills
into law. Likewise with any bureaucrat implementing the acts ..

We need a new law all right. But, one that states that any public
servant violating the Constitution, and hence their oath of office,
shall immediately be removed from office without pay and, if convicted,
serve at least five years in prison.


Usually, when we hand over $155 to an Asian company, we receive
something like a TV, VCR or microwave oven in return. But, these are
unusual times. This time, they want approximately $155 from each
American taxpayer simply so the Asian industrialists will not need to
decrease their high living standards.

The reason: They made a lot of bad investments. Very, very bad
investments. Japanese banks alone are holding over a trillion bucks in
bad debt. That's just in Japan.

So, of course, they want to borrow more money. It's where they go to
borrow all that money that affects Americans. They go to the
International Monitory Fund to borrow. The IMF can lend them money
cheap because IMF gets the money from member nations free.

Who is this IMF we hear so much about in the news? An Executive Board
of 24 representatives oversees the daily affairs of the IMF. The five
largest contributors to the IMF are the United States, France,
Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom. Each appoints one
representative to the Fund's Executive Board. The remaining 19
directors are elected by different coalitions of countries.

The Fund is directed by Michel Camdessus, a French Socialist.
Camdessus' stated intention is to increase the Fund's resources by
about $160 billion. That means, beyond a doubt, that he will soon come
to Washington asking for a lot more of our money.

As established in its Articles of Agreement, the only authority over
the IMF is its governing body. More specifically, all assets,
archives, and employees are immune from searches and requirements
demanded by member countries. That is, they have complete diplomatic
immunity. They are beyond the authority of any national government.
Member countries are forbidden from placing restrictions, regulations,
controls, and moratoria of any nature on the property and assets of the
IMF or its employees.

The United States is the largest contributor to the IMF. We contribute
about 18.25 percent of the IMF's total quota subscriptions, which comes
out to more than $36 billion -- or $517 per American family . This is
money that will never, ever be returned to the United States Treasury.

Recently, Clinton asked Congress to appropriate yet another $18 billion
for the Fund. That is to include a $14.5 billion increase in our quota
subscription and an additional $3.4 billion to fund a new credit line
called the New Arrangements to Borrow. President Clinton , of
course, wants Congress to appropriate the money immediately, in one
lump sum, and with no conditions attached.

The Senate already approved this request last March. The House ,
however, is holding out. Last June, the House Republican leadership
advised President Clinton in a letter that the House required more
information in order to consider expanded funding for the IMF. Thirty-
nine Representatives signed a letter to the Speaker, supporting the
statement and requesting a full floor debate on the IMF.

There is good reason for the House to balk at turning over taxpayer
money to this international piggyback. Their results have been
dismal. Of the 89 less-developed countries that received IMF loans
between 1965 and 1995, more than half are no better off today than
they were before receiving the IMF loans. In fact, the Heritage
Foundation reports that 32 are poorer than they were before receiving
IMF loans. And, of these 32 countries, 14 have economies that are down
at least 15 percent from when they received their first IMF loans.

U.S. contributions to the IMF are regarded as an exchange of assets.
That is, they are an off-budget item and are not considered when
calculating annual budget deficits or surpluses. Never mind that these
expenditures put the U.S. deeper into debt, funding for the IMF is
exempt from budget caps.

Another matter seldom reported by the national media is that little of
our foreign aid benefits American citizens, or even national security,
in any way. According to a June 12, 1998 Heritage Foundation report,
U.S. Foreign Aid, by Bryan T. Johnson: 74 percent of U.S. foreign
aid recipients voted against the United States in the UN a majority of
the time. This was up from 68 percent in 1996 and 64 percent in 1995.
Thus, nearly three out of every four foreign aid recipients vote
against the United States in the UN most of the time.

Clearly, this foreign aid fiasco needs some immediate attention ..

For more information, visit the Heritage Foundation's publication
library at:


It appears that Congress gave the President the ability to confer upon
foreigners ( and presumably, some American citizens ) privileges,
exemptions, and immunities never available to the normal American
citizen. In other words, the President may, and regularly does,
legally create an elite group among us that is immune from many of our
laws and privileged to break them at will. And they do.

We usually think of that privileges, exemptions, and immunities
language as something that is extended to diplomats ( diplomatic
immunity ) while they are here as official representatives of their
respective countries. That was rather straightforward and easy to
understand until the United Nations was allowed to set up shop here.
All UN ambassadors, and many workers, get diplomatic immunity. Now,
unfortunately, the UN also confers diplomatic immunity, and is
currently considering extending it to environmental-wackos to make them
above the law in the United States.

Anyway, on August 7, 1998, Clinton issued yet another of his executive
orders, this time giving the Interparliamentary Union representatives
diplomatic immunity within the United States. Executive Order 13097
reads in full:

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the
laws of the United States of America, including section 1 of the
International Organizations Immunities Act ( 22 U.S.C. 288 ) , and having
found that the Interparliamentary Union is a public international
organization in which the United States participates within the meaning
of the International Organizations Immunities Act, I hereby designate
the Interparliamentary Union as a public international organization
entitled to enjoy the privileges, exemptions, and immunities conferred
by the International Organizations Immunities Act. This designation is
not intended to abridge in any respect privileges, exemptions, or
immunities that such organization may have acquired or may acquire by
international agreements or by congressional action.

The obvious question here is: Who the heck is the Interparliamentary
Union, and why should we care? That wasn't easy to track down.

We found the Interparliamentary Union best described in a UNESCO
publication dated October 1997. Apparently, Miguel Angel Martinez,
President of the Council of the Interparliamentary Union ( IPU ) ,
declared to the General Conference, the supreme ruling body of the
Organization, that UNESCO's action [in promoting education] was crucial
for democracy because without education there can be no responsible
citizenry nor lasting democracy. . . . By recognizing that
parliaments and the organization which represents them have a role to
play in relaying world-wide public opinion to UNESCO, you have
broadened and enriched your debates while reflection on the reform of
international institutions is gathering momentum and democratization
and globalization are spreading. Democratization is an irreversible
global trend which corresponds to the most basic and imperative
aspirations of peoples: equality and dignity, the rejection of a
unipolar world, of the hegemony of the rich over the poor, of
prosperity for the few based on the marginalization of the rest.

If that sounds like a bit of socialistic propaganda, it's because that
is what it is. UNESCO reports that, the IPU was founded in 1889,
with headquarters in Switzerland, to promote contacts and exchange of
experience amongst parliaments and parliamentarians world- wide. Its
membership is composed of 138 national parliaments and three
international parliamentary assemblies.

IPU wants UNESCO to provide the necessary education to train more and
better workers throughout the world. The President of the IPU Council
also spoke of globalization: born of the historic rise in trade,
globalization appears irreversible. There is no point in fighting the
process but, in order to thwart its harmful effects, it is absolutely
essential to organize it and to set new and more acceptable
ground-rules for it.

Among other things, the IPU demands that the U.S. back off on Iraq,
elect more women to Congress, and participate in UNESCO. As a group,
they seem to get along very well with the communists of the former
Soviet Union and the dictators running Red China.

The IPU is said to represent 138 national parliaments. However,
that's just political hyperbole. Actually, at any one time, they have
a sprinkling of members from a few parliaments around the world. They
represent no one.

But now, thanks to Bill Clinton, IPU members and workers will have more
rights and liberties than American citizens while visiting here. IPU
represents no country, only an idea some call the Third Way. But, in
today's political atmosphere, that idea is enough to get the IPU
representatives full diplomatic immunity.

Just as an afterthought here, we think that all American citizens
should receive all privileges, exemptions, and immunities intended us
by the Founding Fathers when they wrote our Constitution. And, if
that's not also good enough for these foreign bozos while visiting
here, let them stay home.

For more information on the topics discussed above, go to: www


[Note: The text below is their advertising blurb. Nevertheless, The
Federalist Digest definitely is recommended reading.]

Recommended Reading. I receive The Federalist free by email, and
suggest you take a moment to subscribe. The Federalist is e-mailed
directly to me ( very convenient ) in two parts: the Brief on Tuesday
and the Digest on Friday. Both can be read in only minutes. They are
an invaluable resource for staying current on important issues. See
the endorsements and description below, and sign-up today.

The Federalist Digest is a good read for informed conservatives . --
Ed Feulner, Jr., President, Heritage Foundation.

“The vision and legacy of the Reagan Revolution flourish on the pages
of The Federalist. -- Michael Reagan, Syndicated Radio Host.

I never miss reading the Federalist Digest -- it sticks to the
truth. -- Gary Bauer, President, Family Research Council.

The Federalist is an exciting and thoughtful forum for keeping up with
a broad range of sound conservative opinion. -- R. Emmett Tyrrell,
Jr., Editor, The American Spectator.

The Federalist interprets current issues in the conservative context
of history, people and ideas that went before, along with the
principles in which they believed and why those principles worked, and
will work again. -- Cal Thomas, Syndicated Columnist.

The Federalist is a concise, highly acclaimed email journal of
anecdotal rebuttal to contemporary political, social and media
liberalism. Compiled each week by a national editorial board, The
Federalist's condensed, quick reading format provides efficient
access to a wide spectrum of reliable information from reputable
research, advocacy and media organizations. Its content is carefully
selected to provide Constitutional Conservatives with a brief,
informative and entertaining survey and analysis of the week's most
significant news, policy and opinion. The Federalist is an advocate
of individual, family and community governance, rights and
responsibilities, as originally intended by the Founders, and the
authors of our Republic's Constitution. The Federalist is emailed in
two parts: the Brief is distributed on Tuesday and the Digest is
distributed on Friday.

Subscribe to the Federalist Digest at: http://www. ( NOTE: Using the above URLs is the
most reliable method for subscribing. If you don't have Internet
access, send your name and email address to: )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:48
kapex (Can you explain why the Media is so Liberal? I've had a theory for a few ) ID#218254:
years now. it started when I realized that the media no longer reported the news, but had to sell it for ratings. It has to do with this; Ask yourself a question, which party in this country would be more likely to say to the media and hollywood, show some accountability and responsibilit in what you put on the boob tube and the way you rate your movies. Then ask yourself, which party would say, go ahead, do whatever you want. I think you can figure it out for yourself. Who do you think the media wants in power?hmmmm

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:47
Gianni Dioro__A (Klinton & the Other Women) ID#384350:
Personally I don't care who he sleeps with. Many people have been so brainwashed by the press that it's a question of simple adultery.

It goes back to what happened with Paula Jones, a govt employee whom BJK invited to visit him in a hotel room. Dropping his pants, exposing his bent penis, and telling her to kiss it. Sexual harassment through and through.

Then in Grand Jury testimony relating to the Paula Jones Case, he denied having any sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, and is accused of Encouraging her to perjure herself ( Obstructing Justice ) . Now that DNA was going to prove that He perjured himself, he comes up with another lame cop out, It was only a BJ, she didn't inhale crap, After vehemently denying any sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky, tapping his finger on the desk with every word.

It is Perjury and obstruction of Justice, not adultery, that is the issue. The fact should be obvious to everyone that this guy is a sex fiend and a compulsive liar. His credibility and his integrity is nonexistant compared to those such as Paula Jones and the many others that are who are not heard, silenced, or who are too afraid to come forward.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:46
Who Cares?__A (Chinese Treason, Part I - Rohrabacher in Congress, 8-7-98) ID#242328:
Copyright © 1998 Who Cares?__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Fair warning. Reading the following series of posts will rock your
faith in the news media. All of this sex stuff with Clinton is
simply the Establishment's way of trying to Capone Clinton.

Missilegate - US betrayed by corporations, Clinton administration

COMMUNISTS, Congressional Record, August 7, 1998, pp. H7421-H7426 ( Special
Order )

Mr. Speaker, on April 30 of this year, I came to the floor of the House to
use 1 hour of time available to me in a special order to discuss a matter of
utmost importance to the security of our country and the safety of the
American people.

In that special order, which I gave on April 30, I disclosed information that
indicated that American aerospace firms, with the acquiescence of officials
in the Clinton administration, and perhaps the President himself, had
facilitated the transfer of sophisticated rocket technology to the Communist
Chinese. If true, I stated, Americans have been put in jeopardy and that this
could be the worst technological betrayal of our country since the

For those of my colleagues who do not remember the Rosenbergs, the Rosenbergs
were people who worked for the United States in our own program to develop an
atomic bomb during World War II; who, for whatever reason, gave the secrets
of producing that atomic bomb to Communist Russia, to the Soviet Union when
it was under the control of Joseph Stalin.

Well, today, unfortunately, it appears that some major American aerospace
companies may well have given to the world's worst abuser of human rights,
tyrants that are on the par with Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung and other
tyrants of the past, may have given them secrets that we developed during the
Cold War for our own protection. They have given them those secrets in a way
which will increase their capability of building rockets that could hit the
United States with nuclear weapons.

Mr. Speaker, I take the floor again today to update my colleagues and
interested parties on what has happened since my initial disclosure, as well
as disclose new information that has come to light concerning the use of
technology developed and paid for by the U.S. taxpayers, handed over to the
Communist Chinese.

First and foremost, since my first address, nothing has emerged that suggests
that my original statements were inaccurate. The more information that
becomes available, the more certain it becomes that aerospace firms like
Loral Space and Communications, Hughes and Motorola, callously disregarded
the security of our country. To be fair on this, Hughes Corporation denies
that they have done anything to improve Communist Chinese rocket capability,
and is taking steps to provide me with information which they believe will
demonstrate this fact and will demonstrate the fact they have remained true
to the United States.

Hughes notwithstanding, there is ample evidence that American technology was
transferred to this hostile potential enemy of the United States and that the
vast experience of some of our best aerospace engineers provided the
Communist Chinese the guidance needed to upgrade and perfect highly
sophisticated weapons systems, increasing the reliability and capability of
Communist Chinese rockets. This has given what anyone has to admit is at
least a potential enemy of the United States, a better ability to deliver
nuclear warheads to our country, to American cities, to incinerate millions
of our people.

Did the Communist Chinese have that capability before? Yes, they did,
minimally, have that capability. Perhaps they could have gotten a rocket to
us. But now, thanks to American know-how, given them by American aerospace
companies, their rockets are more accurate and are more reliable, and now
their rockets can kill more than one nuclear warhead, and this, thanks to
American know-how.

I expected, after my first speech on this issue, that the companies in
question would protest that I was wrong, that my fears were unfounded, that
my sources had exaggerated the damage being done to our security. That has
not been the case. The dangers to our country may, in fact, have been
understated. Since disclosing the limited information I uncovered, there have
been several hearings in the House and in the Senate looking into this
horrific possibility that the money that we Americans spent developing
technology to defend us ended up perfecting Communist Chinese rockets, and in
the House, a select committee of nine distinguished Members has been
appointed. Under the leadership of the gentleman from California ( Mr. Cox ) ,
this select committee is now organizing its efforts to thoroughly investigate
the situation.

One of the executives in question is Bernard Schwartz of Loral. Schwartz was
hell-bent to sell an arsenal of high-tech weapons to the Communist Chinese,
weapons that would have put tens of thousands of American military personnel
in jeopardy, our military personnel, our sons and daughters on our ships or
in our airplanes. In any future confrontation between the United States and
China, our military people would have been put in jeopardy of being shot out
of the air, blown out of the water, and murdered by Communist Chinese who are
being armed with technology that was developed by the United States for our
own defense.

This is what Bernard Schwartz wanted to sell to the Communist Chinese. We do
not know exactly how much of

[[Page H7422]]

this lethal weapons-related technology Loral was able to transfer. He was
stopped in many cases, and he was not given permission in many cases. But
what is clear, that when it comes to the upgrading of China's rocket system,
which could land a nuclear weapon here, Loral was anxious to help, and in
fact there is evidence to indicate that the weapons systems, that these
missiles were improved with Loral's help.

According to reports, on February 6, 1996, a Chinese long march rocket
carrying a $200 million Loral satellite, exploded shortly after its launch
from a satellite launch center in China. Loral and the Hughes Corporation
went to work on an accident review for the insurance companies who insured
that flight and insured the coverage of that loss.

First of all, we need to understand that it is illegal for corporations to
transfer this weapons technology and to upgrade rockets, so there was no
excuse whatsoever for Hughes and Loral to be going through an accident
investigation that was involving only the blow-up of a Chinese rocket, not
the malfunction of a satellite system. There should have been no discussions

The Chinese Government, once Loral and Hughes jumped into analyzing what had
gone wrong with this launch, the Chinese Government requested a Chinese-born
Loral executive named Dr. Wah Lim, to be put in charge of this report. Loral
complied with this request, and replaced an experienced American U.S. Air
Force colonel who was at that time responsible for the launch security, and
they replaced this man, this American military officer at Loral, they
replaced him with Dr. Lim, who had been requested by the Communist Chinese.
One wonders why that happened. One wonders what justification there could be
in that.

In May 1996, the 200-page accident review, this report that dealt with this
rocket's performance, was finished and this again had nothing to do with the
satellite, it had to do with the explosion of the rocket. This report was
unlawfully faxed by Dr. Lim, the man who the Chinese had requested be on this
team, this report was faxed to the Communist Chinese themselves without
either a State Department or Defense Department approval.

One year later, when the Pentagon completed an assessment of what had
happened, an assessment of this report, and Dr. Lim's actions taken to
provide this report to the Communist Chinese, our Defense Department
concluded, and I quote: ``The United States national security has been
harmed,'' end of quote.

To put that in terms that my colleagues might understand, now millions of
Americans live under the threat of being incinerated by a nuclear weapon
launched at the United States from China, and made more accurate and made
more reliable by our own aerospace industry.

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken with a former security monitor for U.S. space
launches overseas who has monitored Loral launches in the former Soviet Union
and in China. He claims to have witnessed serious lapses in the security of
U.S. satellites and these rocket launches in both countries. In addition, the
Cox committee will be looking into reports by the Defense Department
officials who were present at Loral's launches in China. We are talking
especially about that launch in February of 1996.

The mass of information is somewhat confusing, but to begin with, the report
that we are talking about that went to the Communist Chinese, this was
supposedly for insurance companies, and the one that of course ended up going
directly to the Chinese Communist rocket builders is not just a general
assessment. It turns out that that report that was put together by Loral and
Hughes engineers, it is not just a road map, it is kind of a blueprint, if
you will, for perfecting the Chinese Communist long march rocket system.

That rocket system, before the American intervention, before our experts
started talking to the Communist Chinese, had blown up four times in a row.
It was one of the world's most unreliable systems. But the suggestions that
they were given were so precise that it was not just trying to perfect things
and make things better, it was so precise it included such things as make
sure, and I will use terms that are not classified terms, turn this widget
and replace it with a ``thingamabob.'' Make sure that the settings on the
``what'a-ya-call- it'' panel are turned this way. And even a layman like
myself, with very little technological background, but even I could read and
see that this was a blueprint for improving a Communist Chinese rocket system
and had nothing to do with the satellite itself. It was clearly instructions
on how to dramatically improve that Communist Chinese rocket system.

And guess what? Think about it. After these meetings and after this report
was put in the hands of the Communists, well, guess what? After they got
their advice from, their technological advice from their American buddies,
this particular Communist Chinese rocket system flew successfully, and has
continued to fly successfully. Now it is a reliable rocket system, from the
most unreliable in the world to a very reliable system. No more explosions.
It is a perfected system. The trouble is, that same system is identical,
although it is carrying American satellites now, it is identical to the
system that carries nuclear warheads, atomic bombs. The difference between
that rocket system and the one that carries the weapons to kill us, the only
difference, one is painted a pastel color and is very beautiful and the other
may have military painting on it.

Mr. Speaker, I say to my fellow colleagues, this is a severe, a severe breach
of American security, and has put our country in jeopardy. We are not just
talking about American satellites. Again, when we hear the issue discovered,
those people who talk about satellites, are trying to confuse the issue. What
we are really talking about is the upgrading of a nuclear weapons delivery
system in the hands of the Communist Chinese, a weapons system that is
designed to hit American cities and vaporize millions of our own people.

Shame on Loral and any other American company involved in providing this
assistance to a potential enemy of the United States of America.

Another aerospace company, Motorola, appears to have been involved in
advancing Chinese ballistic missile capabilities as well. In this case,
Motorola took a Chinese rocket, not the same one that we are talking about
with Loral and Hughes, took a Chinese rocket, called the Chinese long march
2-C rocket and upgraded its capabilities. The long march 2-C was a relatively
reliable system, unlike the other one that we are talking about that Hughes
and Loral were dealing with. It had in fact flown 14 times before the
Americans came around to use it in order to launch a new generation of
communication satellites.

The problem with launching those satellites was that it was a reliable
system, but it really was not as capable as Motorola and other companies
wanted it to be. In fact, as long as it saved money and did not enhance the
Chinese ability to attack its enemies, meaning the United States, it was okay
for Loral to use that system, because it was reliable and they had done that
on their own, the Chinese had developed that on their own.

What happened was this: In all of the launches of that Chinese long march 2-C
rocket before Motorola showed up with its engineering advice and
sophisticated technology, in all of those launches, the Chinese rocket that
we are talking about only carried one payload. In the launches afterwards,
after Loral had 40-some engineering meetings with the Chinese, and after
Loral gave them certain technologies, the Chinese rocket that we are talking
about went from carrying one payload to carrying two payloads.

Now, that may not sound very threatening, but let me put it this way:
American technology was then used to double the capacity of a Communist
Chinese missile system. This is called MIRVing. When we have only one payload
and then we take it to two or more payloads, it is MIRVing. This is the
ability to dispense more than one projectile from a rocket, whether it is a
satellite or a nuclear warhead. That is from one rocket, more than one
payload is MIRVing. And so others will know why that is a threat, instead of
just destroying one city, that rocket now could destroy two American cities
rather than just one American city. Is that important that we have doubled

[[Page H7423]]

their capability of this rocket system to destroy American cities and
obliterate our countryside with just one missile? Yes, that is really

The frightening fact screams out at us. China did not have MIRVing capability
for this system before the iridium satellite contract was signed with
Motorola. However, on September 1, and here is a quote from the Chinese
themselves, on September 1, 1997, the official Communist Chinese news agency
reported, and I quote: A Chinese long march rocket carrier containing two
simulations, two simulations of iridium satellites owned by the American
electronic giant Motorola was successfully launched.

And here is the hook to it. The carrier, based on the long march 2-C, was the
first of its type ever launched. Why was it the first of its type? Because it
carried two satellites, two payloads instead of one.

An American company essentially doubled the capacity of a Communist Chinese
rocket system to carry payloads. Both payloads may be deadly payloads that
would put millions of American lives in jeopardy.

In addition, Motorola officials confirmed to me that they have provided the
Chinese with technology such as exploding bolts. Exploding bolts. That is the
technology that facilitates the stage separation of rockets. So that if a
rocket is taking off, some of the times the Chinese rockets that were taking
off before Loral and Hughes and Motorola got over there, they tried to
separate their stages, and they would just explode.

That is what was explained to me the first time I heard about this. And I
looked at the engineer, the American engineer who was telling me about this,
and I said, you know, I think it is a good thing when Chinese rockets
explode. We like it when Chinese rockets explode, because those rockets then
cannot come over here and kill our loved ones.

Well, at first the company was turned down, Motorola, when they wanted to
give some of these technologies, these exploding bolts that facilitate
MIRVing and stage separation technology, they were turned down. They were
turned down in their attempt. Just as perhaps Bernie Schwartz was turned down
on some of these requests early on to sell weapons technology to the Chinese,
they were turned down to sell these exploding bolts to the Chinese. But
through a Clinton administration sleight of hand, by readjusting the
paperwork, the licensing process moved forward, and this technology, which
helps the rockets, was moved from the rocket category, which is illegal for
these companies to transfer to the Communist Chinese, it was moved to the
satellite list simply by reworking the paperwork.

Now, it is permissible for them to give this technology, before it was
illegal. The end result: Communist Chinese, who are infamous copy cats, these
people spend billions of dollars trying to copy American ideas and technology
and engineering, these famous copy cats ended up with 40 of these incredibly
precise and sophisticated pieces of aerospace engineering.

{time} 1200

We do not expect them to try to copy this when it gives them the ability to
perfect their own missile system.

Motorola indicated to me that they wanted to provide me with information that
would convince me that they were not guilty of betraying the security of our
country. Unfortunately, they have not been willing to provide me with any
more information and suggesting, instead, well, we are only going to talk to
the Cox committee which is, as I said, now just getting organized.

Frankly, I look at this as a stall and will let the public and my colleagues
determine for themselves whether they think that this is a stall or an
attempted coverup.

I gave Motorola every opportunity to correct what they said was a false
impression on my part. They decided not to provide me with information,
knowing that I would be speaking to the House of Representatives as well as
to the American people on this issue.

I will continue to speak to the House of Representatives and the American
people on this issue and continue my investigation of this issue. If Motorola
chooses not to make information available, we can only think the worst of
them for it.

The Hughes Corporation, on the other hand, has tried to be cooperative. The
company has some serious questions to answer in regard to three satellite
launches in China that did not have U.S. security monitors present.

Under U.S. regulations, security monitors were needed. They had to be there.
It was required that they be there for all the launches in China. Yet, they
were not there at three of these major launches.

Why was that? Hughes Aircraft and Hughes Electronics understood the
necessity, the legal requirement for these launches to be monitored. Hughes
is making, however, as I say, information and personnel available to me so
that if mistakes were made, we can talk about them and they can be corrected.
I take that as an act of good faith on the part of Hughes.

One question I will be asking is why Hughes hired the son of a general, of a
Chinese Communist general, to be involved in their own program. In fact, the
son of the general they hired is the general who was in charge of China's own
military satellite program. We need to know the role that this man played in
that company, the son of a Communist Chinese general, as well as whether he
has had a hand in some of these sensitive decisions as well as access to this
very sensitive U.S. aerospace technology.

Hughes must explain the role that they have given to Dr. Wah Lim. They hired
Wah Lim, Hughes hired Wah Lim as a senior vice president after the Loral
report debacle was made public.

I will be reporting back to my fellow Members of Congress and to the American
people upon the return from our August break. This issue should not be lost
in the headlines of controversy that are now flowing through Washington, D.C.
This issue is important to our national survival. ...

[This is part 1 of 2]

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:44
Wizened (@The Hatt and other Canuck buck busters...) ID#242303:
Copyright © 1998 Wizened/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Let the Loonie and Aussie Dollar and NZ drop till they are worth 30 cents US than lets see how much the US multinats can sell us. Then see what happens to the profits they make from their subsidaries when they convert them back into real dollars.

Governements do not have control over their currency anymore. The speculative trillions that wash around, dwarf real trade.

What can they do? Bankrupt their countries with high interest rates. Buy GOld? Why how would that help? It might help you or I but I doubt it would do much for the loonie. Do you really think the US Dollar is up because of the gold in Fort Knox

Switzerland had the strongest currency a few years ago. It just wouldn't stop going up. It preceeded the worst recession they had since the war. Their currency has since dropped more than 20% against the US dolaar and times are a booming.

!@#& the speculators. They don't understand the fundamentals of a country. The ideal country for a spec to put money is a dictatorship with no social programs and no democracy eg Singapore and they've even fallen out of love with them!.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:44
skinny (?) ID#28994:
The more the Socialism......The poorer the country.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:42
Steve in TO__A (Erle - concerning your 0:03 post) ID#287337:
When I cycle home my route goes through Toronto's biggest 'stroll' and so I am qualified to tell you that Chelsea's shorts did not look like the ones the ho's wear. The ones the ladies of the night wear in summertime are quite distinctive, helps make them identifiable, so-to-speak, and reduces the need to commit that uniquely Canadian crime: 'communicating for the purpose of engaging in prostitution.'

All the best,


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:42
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Charts) ID#93199:
Copyright © 1998 Schippi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fidelity Select Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Fidelity Select Energy & Energy Service Chart

Fidelity Select Computers, Electronics & Software Chart

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:41
jtaher (Dbog/Hatt re: Canadian Dollar) ID#249409:
As if we don't have enough problems - the Canadian Supreme Court is giving its decision tomorrow re: Quebec's right to separate from Canada. Bouchard will likely use the decision to call an election soon and rally the Separatists once again. More cause for another run at the Cad $.

Got gold?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:38
HopeFull (Give me a break PH in LA.......if Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Newt, Qualye.....) ID#402148:
any one of them, had done the things Clinton has been associated with, the press would have had them impeached by now.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:38
skinny (The Hatt) ID#28994:
I think J.C, ( jean Chretian ) is a French lawyer,being a lawyer is bad. being a french lawyer in Canada is national degradation.
Lawyers are Americas greatest threat.
A swig gulp.....2 chug.a.lugs,,nite all.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:37
kapex (Cont: The utter Contempt that he has for the American public is unbelievable!) ID#218254:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:36
sharefin (Auric - such beaming faces) ID#284255:
Old news but good

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:34
kapex (PH in LA: I don't understand why people keep PRETENDING that this is just about SEX.) ID#218254:
If ti was SOOOOO trivial, WHY did he put his supporters, the American public, and blame Ken Starr for doing what he was ASKED to do by Janet Reno ( Because even she realized it was serious if he PEJURED himself on a sworn deposition ) through 7 Months of Bullshit, when he could have cleared the air then? How many investigators does he have on the public dole Trashing and digging up dirt on people that were telling the TRUTH? hmmm.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:34
IDT (Thanks Gollum and Pdeep) ID#228128:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:33
Who Cares?__A (Sigh. I see PH @ LA is new to the Internet) ID#242328:

Clinton is currently investigation by the FBI for treason.

I don't mind uninformed comments such as yours much anymore.
After eight years on the Internet, I've gotten used to seeing it.

If you'd like, I could post the actual text of Freeh's testimony
to Congress last week.

And then you can wonder why, when the story broke two years
ago in England, that you never saw on television here.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:33
DBog (The Hatt ) ID#267298:
Copyright © 1998 DBog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Right On, Couldn't agree more.

When I look at the situation today I can't help thinking of
my Dad who passed away two years ago. He often said
Leave the Liberals in long enough and we'll see a $ .65

If he were alive today I think even he would be surprised
it happened this quickly.

I also think we ( Canadians ) and the Americans actually
have much in common. We both have leaders that are
completely inept and a detriment to the people they represent.

Sad, but true

Go Gold

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:30
blooper (Ph in LA) ID#207145:
This is payback for democrat treatment of Nixon, Reagan and Bush. Payback is hell. Take it like a man. Quit whimpering.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:24
PH in LA (Got perspective?) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Watched the news on network TV tonight. Sam Donaldson gave an important report on the President's necktie. Several video clips were included of the three documented occasions on which the tie was worn in public. No definite conclusions were reached on the significance of the tie.

I know my views will be derided here on this open-minded forum of inquiring minds. But doesn't it make even some of you ashamed to turn on the news and see Sam D. pandering to public prurience? Isn't anyone else ashamed to see supposedly grown men and women posting to the whole world the inanities that appear here? Those idiotic comments about Airforce One on its way to China? An adult scientist and supposedly intelligent poster who claims that only Clinton's resignation would make him respect the president? What about that obvious deception on the part of your hero Matt Drudge? Those misleading clues about the impending announcement from Clinton? Don't any of you feel ashamed about your silly reactions? To those of you who would impeach a president for lying about sex: What do you say to M. Drudge about his obvious deception and the misleading comments?

Where were all of you when Ronald Reagan was selling arms to Iran? And using the profits to finance an illegal war in Central America? When he testified that he couldn't remember hardly anything? When the former head of the CIA, then-vice president Bush claimed to have been out of the loop? Weren't those lies just slightly more important than whether Clinton lied about sex?

Probably not. After all, those were Republican lies. That's different, isn't it?

By the way, just what does Libertarian mean? Idiotic?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:17
Trinity (Oris) ID#369277:
Have you tried the HK USP 9mm, I'm not familiar with the CZ model which you mentioned, but would be interested to hear how it compares to HK.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:17
kapex (Elliot Wave: If the market does not go right in the toilet and convinciningly) ID#218254:
break the low of 8320 bymore than a few hundred points, than this first series of a-b-c, was an ( A ) . We would now go down for a ( B ) followed by a 5 wave advance for a ( C ) to the .618 level. This woulb be the 8960 area.
It seems like it might unfold like that due to the sentiment currently out there. IMHO.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:14
Goldteck ( Drivers learn to avoid Mexico's criminals) ID#431200:
Copyright © 1998 Goldteck/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 19, 1998PACHUCA, Mexico ( AP ) -- It's what driver's education would be like if your instructor was James Bond.

 Tire-screeching, rubber-burning, stomach-churning turns at 80 kilometres an hour. Backing up at 40 km-h, spinning 180 degrees, then speeding forward. Veering away from criminals shooting at your car.

 Crime is rising in Mexico and business is thriving for companies that teach executives, their families and chauffeurs how to elude kidnappers, robbers and other criminals.

 In the last 1 1/2 years, about 1,000 students have taken the course offered by O'Gara Services -- three or four times the number in the first 3 1/2 years it was offered, said Jorge Navarro, the training director.

 No school can guarantee its students will not become victims. Instead O'Gara and its competitors strive to teach clients to become tough targets so criminals will pick on someone else.

 There are many more easy victims than difficult ones, Navarro said. Once you decide to become a difficult victim, it's impressive how your risks are reduced.

 The price of becoming a difficult victim is steep. O'Gara, a division of Kroll-O'Gara Co. of Fairfield, Ohio, charges $900 US a person for a one-day course for executives and their relatives and $1,400 US for a two-day course for chauffeurs.

 Other companies offer similar courses and prices tend to fluctuate with the level of training. Security consultant Richard Wright holds extensive training courses near Tucson, Ariz., that includes actual crashes. We destroy two or three vehicles per course, he said.

 The three-day class for executives costs $3,500; the six-day course for chauffeurs costs $5,500.

 Our philosophy is a little knowledge is dangerous, he said. People learn a little bit, but not enough, and they get themselves into trouble.

 Wright said his clients are mostly Mexicans, but other companies train a large number of foreigners based in Mexico. Most participants in O'Gara's course work for multinational corporations and about 40 per cent of the executives are foreigners, Navarro said.

 The O'Gara course begins in a hotel in Pachuca, 100 kilometres northeast of Mexico City. Students are taught to identify dangerous situations and get out of them.

 Simply, we put order to the common sense that everyone already has, Navarro said.

 That means learning to identify suspicious people or situations when a driver might be vulnerable -- approaching a narrow bridge, for example, when there is no room to manoeuvre.

 Avoiding problems can be as simple as pretending to talk to police by cellular phone or slowly approaching traffic lights instead of coming to a complete stop.

 When the threat is more imminent, it could be as extreme as backing up suddenly, spinning around and speeding off.

 That's where the main part of the training kicks in. It takes place on a sun-beaten auto racetrack a few kilometres away. Drivers learn what to do if precautions fail and they have just moments to react to danger.

 The first exercises include weaving through highway cones and learning to stop suddenly and swerve to avoid obstacles.

 By day's end, the exercises become more difficult. In one, the drivers' vision is obscured by a companion holding a plastic plate. The driver moves forward at about 50 km-h while the companion holds the steering wheel, keeping the car straight.

 When instructors wave a flag, the plate is yanked away and the driver suddenly sees road cones immediately ahead. In a split second, the driver must decide whether to swerve right or left or stop and back up. Meanwhile, O'Gara staffers pretending to be assassins fire away with paint pellets.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:14
Auric (Golden Kitcoites Photo) ID#255151:

sharefin--Thanks for putting that up. What a young, intelligent, and fine looking bunch! Glad t1 is on our side! A gulp to all!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:11
Tortfeasor (DNA Sample from Clinton) ID#37463:
All they had to do was just scrape the sidewalk in his wake as he walked by ( not unlike slug trails ) to garner that DNA sample.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:10
The Hatt (DBog/ You are so right we should be ashamed as Canadians as our elected!) ID#294232:
Copyright © 1998 The Hatt/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Government lead us into a full blown recession creating currency crisis. What makes it worse these guys think that selling gold is a great way to create the capital necessary to defend the loonie. Well after two days and a couple billion dollars we back to where we started before intervention. You would think that they would have learned by now. The speculators began tasting blood when JC told the financial world that they did not care where the loonie went. Mistake number 2. What they should have been doing is increasing gold researves. Mistake number 3. DBog we are up the creek without a paddle because most Canadians donot become concerned until it directly affects their lives. That will not last long because Australia and Canada are in a race to become the next Mexico!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:05
sharefin (Jung - charts on the Dow etc...) ID#284255:
Look here:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 23:03
Envy (Rally) ID#219363:
So that was it, huh *smirk*. What's wrong w/ the dippies.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:59
sharefin (Kitco Convention - check it out...) ID#284255:


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:57
Envy (@Jin) ID#219363:
Thanks so much for posting about the environment in your country. I think we would all appreciate it if you would post often! *smile*, I know I would. It's nice haring about what's happening from someone who is actually going through it - the news is sooo misleading, it's the guy on the street who really knows what's going on.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:56
panda (Ruble or Rubble) ID#30116:
Looks like the Ruble is 'correcting' on the Globex...

Looks like the feeding frenzy is on regarding Clinton. Could the markets have discounted this? And Gold!? Time to hit the hey... Good night all.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:53
DBog (Rising Sun) ID#267298:
Perhaps we Canadians should petition our Government to
devalue the Loonie. After all, our Illustrious Leader, Prime
Minister John Chretien has repeatedly said,

Well you know it's not all bad, it's good for some sectors
like the exports and tourism

Sure, devalue the currency and everyone over night become
an exporter or hotel owner and the country will prosper like
never before.

What a joke, I don't know who's more pathetic, BC or JC....

Go Gold

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:52
Jung (right shoulder ?) ID#237164:
Did the dow make the right shoulder at 8750 ? Does someone have a
pointer to a site that charts the Dow?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:49
panda (Leland) ID#30116:
Thanks for the URL. I found a link on Yahoo! with a similar story. Yup, it looks like the tide has turned. Batten down the hatches folks, rough seas ahead.

Clintons recent actions/admissions have given Middle Eastern radicals the ammo they need to incite. Would AlGore be any better? :- ) ) Campaign-gate should take care of him soon enough. Now, about those 900+ FBI files... Photocopy machine anyone?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:49
JTF (Australia and New Zealand currencies are down about 30%) ID#57232:
Shek: I would guess that Canada and Mexico will be down 30% or more from the Oct 97 US$ exchange rates -- within 12 months, if they follow the Australian/New Zealand lead. No wonder our friends downunder are even more gold-buggish than we are. The only thing that might slow this process down would be a drop in the US dollar.

I am convinced that the rolling devaluations will spread around the world -- eventually ending up in the USA. Eventually the US markets will fall, too. ( Unless we by some miracle pay off most of our debts -- Ha! ) .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:46
Gollum (@IDT) ID#43349:
Try this one:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:45
pdeep (IDT) ID#174103:
This may be close enough to what you are looking for in terms of currency exchange calcs, there are probably better options.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:45
oris (TYoung, Miro, all armed goldbugs) ID#242258:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Brother Tom, I just came back from shooting range
where I launched small 9 mm projectales from my new
toy - CZ-75B pistol, made with pride in Czech Republic.
You know, I got to kill time waiting for $6,000 gold...
Anyway, this is absolutely the best 9mm full-size semi-auto
pistol I ever shot, and I shot many. Buy it
gonna love it.

Brother Miro, thank you for being born in Czechoslavakia,
which makes such pieces of art. One of the best gun and
car designs in the world were born in the same place.
Beer is also exceptional. Czechs are smart, and if not
for Commies, I bet Czechoslavakia would have been
at least on the same level with West Germany, if not
more successful. We'll see, may be it'll happen some day.

Armed brothers, if somebody wants to get a REAL PISTOL,
buy CZ-75B now, then use change to buy some gold....

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:41
Leland (Panda Re. DNA) ID#316193:
It's on this page. You may want to bookmark the URL. It's
quick and handy.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:37
IDT (Currency quotes) ID#228128:
Does anyone know where to obtain currency quotes. The Bloomberg site appears to have stopped the service. When you enter their currency by region section the show a screen which says that this site doesn't exist anymore.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:22
panda (DNA?) ID#30116:
Is the story true? Clinton was asked to hand over a 'DNA' sample?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:21
NJ (Clinton : Then and now.) ID#20748:
Copyright © 1998 NJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

By Matt Drudge
Wed Aug 19 1998 21:27:35 ET


**Must Credit**

It was another time. Another place. But the same man.

No question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI is an impeachable
offense. -- Bill Clinton, ARKANSAS GAZETTE, August 8, 1974, page 7-A.

That quote is just one of dozens the DRUDGE REPORT has now obtained -- quotes that show Bill Clinton, in his own words, warning about
the dangers of leaving a man that has lied in the position of President of the United States.

Bill Clinton was running for a seat in the United States Congress in the Summer of '74. In the early weeks of August, President Nixon
was going down in flames from events surrounding the Watergate scandal. At that time, Nixon was refusing to respond to pressure from the
Hill demanding his resignation.

Clinton was running for the seat held by Rep. John Paul Hammerschmidt [R] -- a Nixon loyalist who was publicly supporting the president
and telling him to stay in office.

REPRESENTATIVE IS 'OUT OF STEP,' CLINTON CHARGES was the headline in the newspaper on August 8, 1974.

In the wake of President Nixon's public admission that he had lied about his role in Watergate, Clinton, then a law professor at the
University of Arkansas, said:

I think it is plain that the president should resign and spare the country the agony of impeachment and removal proceedings.

I think the country could be spared a lot of agony... if he'd go on and resign, Bill Clinton declared.

The ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT, two days earlier -- August 6, 1974, page 10-A -- quoted Bill Clinton again talking about the need for Nixon to
leave office:

Bill Clinton, Democratic candidate for the 3rd Congressional District, said, There is nothing left to say. There's no point putting
this country through an impeachment since [Nixon] isn't making any pretense of innocence now... This country has suffered so long.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:20
panda (Short Barnicle story...) ID#30116:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:18
Shek (Rising Sun) ID#287279:
Watch the Canadian dollar and Mexican peso take a big tumble, SOON

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:18
panda (OK! We now have a blueprint for Clinton!) ID#30116:
Mike Barnicle resigns from the Boston Globe. He got bagged, again, plagiarizing.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:18
Who Cares?__A (Encumbered?) ID#242328:

Who cares? Government pays face value, bank pays off lien.

I fail to see the problem. : )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:18
Mtn Bear (SE) (ps:) ID#347267:
Look at volumes.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:18
panda (OK! We now have a blueprint for Clinton!) ID#30116:
Mike Barnicle reigns from the Boston Globe. He got bagged, again, plagiarizing.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:16
mozel (@Keating Why does IRS need all those nifty custom made Seven Shot) ID#153102:
Remington shotguns ? And Sig Arms Pistos ? For foraging, that's what.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:16
Rising Sun (To All Canadians) ID#411331:

You should petition your goverment to do something about the value of your currency. Today U.S.$1.00=C$0.6525. I never thought it could go this low.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:16
Mtn Bear (SE) (Almost Forgot: OIL!) ID#347267:
Big Oils looking stronger -- As I have said before, Black Gold and Yellow Metal may move together ( in an upward fashion ) .
Mtn Bear rollin th rock in front of th den.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:16
Rumpled (@ERLE-bamacd----THANKS FOR THE INFO.) ID#411233:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:16
JTF (G' Nite all! ) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have had enough excitement today. I actually thought for a moment that WJC would do the honorable thing, and spare our country the pain and embarrassment of impeachment proceedings. I would actually have had new respect for him. Perhaps he knows that no matter how badly he stumbles, the FBI files on those pesky Republicans will pull him through.

I wonder -- has Hillary thought this out? What is her political future going to be like if WJC fights the impeachment process every step of the way? If her husband resigns, her political future might be better. But -- perhaps she would rather be a Soap Opera producer. Plenty of raw material in the White House.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:14
mozel (@Who Cares A.K.A. Nuts The assets are encumbered.) ID#153102:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:13
Charles Keeling (@ Shek RE: IRS & Y2K) ID#344225:
The IRS could not possibly get that crap they call
a IT system up to Y2K specs. They wont even try !

Stand by for a National sales tax or some other way to
rake in the dollars that is needed by Government.

The system that they have doesn't even work now. If they
try to modify their system, it would be suicidal.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:11
Reify (If Kitcoites in) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Toronto and Long Island, N.Y., whom I had the pleasure to meet, are
any indication of what a great group of people, from assorted back-
grounds, education, personalities, knowledge, and humor, are all about,
I'm proud to announce to y'all that the future looks bright, no matter
what might happen.

Gold is still available at bargain prices, as are other precious metals,
and if you have the pleasure to shake the hands of one Tolerant guy,
your hands will be surrounded by all of those just mentioned, and in
large quanitities. The other wonderful people that attented the dinners
were equally interesting, and warm.

Suggest to all that whenever possible try to meet a fellow Kitcoite, or
at least speak to one on the phone, you won't be sorry.

Have photos for the faces of those we met, but can only send them
directly via email, for anyone interested.

FBI, CIA, M-5 or 6, and KGB, lurkers, please don't request!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:09
mozel (@clone MoMoney or MoFreedom may be your choice.) ID#153102:
Where you are employed are there placards or bulletins posted telling you of your right to minimum wage, Equal Employment Opportunity, Family Leave, Occupational Safety, and the like ?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:08
JTF (IRS unable to handle y2k filings?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Shek: I for one will not be particularly upset if they loose all my IRS records for the last 20 years!

Seriously, a more pressing matter is whether the Federal government can print any checks for any Federal Employees, given that the check printing/records system is apparently not y2k compliant. You'd think that news would light a fire under those Federal employees if they knew. Certainly our Congressmen would react rather quickly.

I wonder what would happen -- perhaps someone is making a list of all federal employees, and their current salaries, as we speak -- just in case.

If I were a federal employee, I certainly would keep all my pay stubs for a possible y2k paycheck meltdown.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:05
robnoel__A ( we have the same sources....Al is first going to give Hawaii back to the locals) ID#411112:


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 22:00
JTF (Air Force One?) ID#57232:
robnoel: Next stop Beijing?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:58
Who Cares?__A (Japanese banks) ID#242328:

Call me nuts, but why couldn't the Japanese government simply
purchase bank assets at their recorded value, print up the yen,
and hand it over the bank?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:57
Tantalus Rex (@robonel_A) ID#295111:
Well, I signing off to watch meat grinders on TV. CIAO ALL.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:56
Mtn Bear (SE) (Noises behind the door - - - ) ID#347267:
Jus ketchin up again:
Hey EJ, Were some of those sounds like snortin an snuffin an scratchin an GRRROWWWLIN? UH OH!
Re CEF, forgot who posted buyin at $3.50, That was my plan too, ( to add some more ) but may not get the chance now!
Mountin Bear, holin up in th den on acounta looks to be a baaad day tmorry for yuppie fun mangers...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:54
Gollum (@Shek ) ID#43349:
Shhhhhhh. If the IRS hasn't thought about Y2K........

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:54
JTF (Japan/China connection) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Shek: I have a conceptual problem with the post regarding a Japan/China financial crisis. If this was really a problem, and the Japanese leaders talk about it in advance, why haven't the markets spooked?

This is really odd. My guess is that the Japanese ( and perhaps the Chinese ) have come up with a list of the banks they will save, and their sale of US dollars will be used to bail these out. The other banks will be left to fall, appeasing the markets. Who knows, the Japan/China markets might actually go up if it is perceived that the approach is fiscally sound, and that the action will be effective.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Japan/China crisis could be solved in a single bold move by any Japanese or Chinese leaders, no matter what the markets might think.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:54
Tantalus Rex (@Frost_A) ID#295111:
If CB's around the world stop selling and especially leasing gold and start buying gold and DECLARE their TRUE intentions, then Gold will go up $300 in one day, easy! Once confirmation and confidence has set in, POG would go to above $1000 in a month easy.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:53
mozel (@American's & Their Constitution) ID#153102:
Chrisopholus: Where is the sale of gold prohibited in US Constitution ?

You sound just like an American. They like you think they know what is constitutional without reading the document much less reading the decisions of law on it.

I doubt if one in 100 American now fully understand that the US Constitution established a government to govern States, not people.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:49
TYoung (Gubermnt confiscation of gold? Sorry, sold all mine months ago....) ID#317193:
Had to liquidate...huge losses in the stock market you know...sad...very sad.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:48
Shek (fiveliter) ID#287279:
Sadly, the news of the IRS announcing that it will not be able to process tax returns in 2000 has not generated any responses even on this forum. Amazing!
Re: Y2K, I agree with you 100%. Corys WRP 88, 89, and 90 are fascinating!
RE: Friends and family, I gave up on my friends.
Best regards and good luck.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:48
sharefin (Silver coins - I have been offered.) ID#284255:
What value should be ascribed to these?
Coins; Accumulated mainly Aust £sd Silver, 3d to 2/-,
GeoV to QE11, pre 1949 ( approx 500gm ) & post1949 ( 800gm ) condition mixed.
By my reckoning there shold be 1.3kg or 46 odd ounces of coins.

What would be a fair price for these mixed coins?

Does one work out their value by a multiple of face value or weight value?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:47
robnoel__A (Come on guys its all over the place to-nite not one show is not talking about his resignation ) ID#411112:

CNBC,CNN,WHORERALDO,CHRIS MATTHEWS,Equal Time.....and the whole day a steady stream of Democrats have been crossing the line...the reason is simple impeachment could really kill the golden goose and all poiticians would lose........besides I have it from good sources that Air Force 1 is heading for Hawaii

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:45
Tantalus Rex (@realistic) ID#295111:
As for me, I must confess that I've made bad preditictions in the past. But little, very little was lost as a result.

As for the POG, it's purchasing power will rise to a phenominal high. I'm so sure that it's a prediction that is 99.9% correct. A paradox you say?

I can say it will happen tomorrow or the next day. If it doesn't happen so what? It'll happen the next day after.

So you see, all I need is to be right once!!!!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:44
Frost__A (Gold, is there anything else.. well a little Platinum on the side.. ) ID#340218:
If the dollar devalues against the yen, then won't Gold rally up? What does it really take to get the value of Gold back above $300.00 per oz. Now seems like a great time to physically buy gold. Have heard some comments to me that the Govt. may pull in all the gold coins, like it did before for their Gold standard.. Anyone heard of this?

Vernon Jenewein

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:44
TYoung (SDR_er...need some updates on the Euro....any silver lining in that gold backing?) ID#317193:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:44
JTF (False alarm) ID#57232:
All: It sure would have been out of character for WJC to resign for the sake of the country. For a minute there I thought he had some character underneath that shady facade. He is a pro at political infighting, and as someone once said, they will have to drag him kicking and screaming from the WhiteHouse.

I wonder -- when will he stop picking on those innocent young female interns?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:42
Flash (Tantalus) ID#301318:
Ok, Ok, middle aged than? :- )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:41
TYoung (Go gold or is that went matter smile and......PMSP....) ID#317193:
Copyright © 1998 TYoung/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The world is going to end. Stocks are going to tank. Gold will go to the moon. My physical just sits there. I do not care...I watch and wait for the currencies to do what they must.

Lost opportunities... yes, for a portion of my “wealth”...we watch this ne...never mind! My hedge is just that. Betting the farm is not wise. Wait for the upswing.

LGB...silver s*cks. Get it going man...good to hear from you...personal attacks accepted...from you anyway...drinking, again, w/out permission.

Think I’ll go long on a few gold contracts if spot stays here...very close stop. Can anyone feed gold some viagra...or however you spell it.

Smile, life could be could be viewing from above or below is scary. to seek ANOTHER object to propel small projectiles...and more projectiles. Yes? : )


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:40
Tantalus__A (Flash) ID#374204:
Blooper's not so old.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:39
Shek (Japan) ID#287279:
Copyright © 1998 Shek/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
August 19, 1998
Japan and China Brace for New Banking Crises

According to Agence France Presse, Taku Yamasaki, a senior
official of the Japanese ruling Liberal Democratic Party, told
Indonesia's President on Tuesday that Japan's economy would face
its most serious crisis within a week. The story was also
carried by the Japanese Kyodo and Jiji news services. While
Yamasaki did not specify what crisis was brewing, he is quoted as
having said that I contacted very important persons in the
Japanese government, and they said that they decided not to let
ailing major banks go bankrupt to avoid negatively influencing
the economic situation in the world, especially in Asia. An
obvious inference to be drawn is that some major Japanese banks
will be facing a major cash flow problem next week and may be
unable to meet obligations. If this is the case, the Japanese
government is sending out a signal in financially devastated
Indonesia, telling the rest of Asia that the Japanese
government is prepared to bail out the banks, preventing
bankruptcy. Yamasaki's reassurance in anticipation of a crisis
that has not yet surfaced is more chilling than calming. Clearly,
senior officials in the Japanese government are aware of an
impending crisis of substantial proportions, such as the
bankruptcy of some of Japan's major banking institutions, and are
trying to soften the shock. This is not the usual Japanese style.
Denial until the last possible moment has been the normal
operating procedure in Japan. Yamasaki appears to be trying to do
damage control in the ASEAN countries, attempting to reassure
them and to limit the effects of the crisis. As economic crises
have become the norm in Japan, Yamasaki's unusual warning
indicates that Japan is facing a new crisis of truly impressive

Perhaps part of Japan's concerns were events in China. On Monday,
China's Ministry of Finance announced that they were issuing 270
million yuan ( about $32 billion at the official rate ) worth of
special, 30-year, yuan-denominated bonds, carrying an annual
coupon of 7.2 percent. The purpose of these bonds was to supply
capital to the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, the
Agricultural Bank of China, the Construction Bank of China, and
the Bank of China. The bonds were not to be sold to the general
public. Wang Wuhong, a Finance Ministry spokesman, pointed out
that the Ministry could not guarantee that the bond issue will
enable the four banks to meet the eight percent capital adequacy
ratio set by the International Bank of Settlements. According to
Agence France Presse, these banks had capital bases of four to
five percent and at least 25 percent of their loans were
non-performing. The banks are also being pressured by the
government to write off bad loans, which involves foreclosure and
other aggressive collection efforts. As in other Asian countries,
this action is difficult to execute because of political and
social implications. At the same time, the People's Bank of China
issued a circular urging all banks to separate themselves from
non-financial entities they owned. This is a crucial step in
saving the banking system, since there is a tendency to support
unprofitable linked businesses with favorable loans that are
not economically justified. This linkage between banks and
non-financial businesses has been a key element in the Asian
meltdown, since banks' irrational lending practices have
undermined their stability. Of course, this circular comes about
five years too late. With a conservative count of 25 percent
non-performing loans, the damage has already been done. Not
surprisingly, China's Xinhua News Agency reported that Beijing
banks reported a 121.7 percent rise in sales of foreign
currencies in the first half of this year. Thus, we have the key
elements of the Asian economic crisis now clearly in view in
China. First, Chinese banks cannot meet the minimal BIS
standards, even with massive infusions of capital. Second,
their non-performing loans stand at 25 percent. Third, the
government is trying, far too late, to get banks to sell off
capital-draining assets. Fourth, the government is trying to get
banks to write off bad loans. Finally, the price of the yuan is
kept stable while the public is buying foreign currency.

The Japanese and the Chinese are tied together now. If the
Chinese were to devalue suddenly, economies throughout Asia,
including Japan, would be devastated. If the Japanese weakened
any further, the Chinese would be forced to devalue. China has
been warning Japan about this for the past few weeks. The
Japanese can hear the creaking sounds of China buckling under the
strain. The Chinese see an uncontrolled plummet in Japan's
economy, and are scrambling to do damage control, albeit too
little and much too late.

We believe that the next two weeks will be critical in the Asian
crisis. Japanese banks seem about to break. The Japanese
government is going to forced to save them. They will need to
borrow money on the international market to do so. That means
that they will need to strengthen the yen. Of course,
strengthening the yen involves selling dollars, which undermines
their ability to borrow money. The pressure on China will
increase. China is trying to get its house in order, hoping to
stabilize its banks in anticipation of the crunch. Of course,
their own banking crisis is far greater than a $30 billion bond
issue can handle.

A question arises: the Chinese have been defending the yuan with
currency controls. If Japan is facing its most serious crisis
yet next week, is there any way they can navigate through the
treacherous waters without imposing some sort of currency
controls of their own? Given the magnitude of their problems and
their unwillingness to impose genuine, wrenching controls, we are
beginning to wonder if there is any way out, short of such
controls. And with the two largest Asian economies having
controlled currencies, what other Asian countries would follow
suit? We note that Yamasaki was in Indonesia when he made his
dire prediction. Even if the Japanese decide not to impose
currency controls, the mere threat should achieve what Japan
wants most -- an American solution. The U.S. is committed to the
current monetary arrangements. If Yamasaki's crisis is as serious
as he is implying, the threat may not be as farfetched in a week
as it seems today.

That is speculation. What is not speculation is that the Japanese
are worried about something, or at least want the world to think
they are worried. We think it is a combination of a Chinese
banking crisis and Japanese bank bankruptcies, converging on each
other. And that is a radical event requiring radical solutions
that leave Japan's internal social and political arrangements
intact. We are open to other suggestions, but Japan does not seem
to have many options.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:39
JTF (Potential Erratum) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In previous post, what I meant was the WJC would admit to a number of the xxxgate issues, getting Al Gore off the hook. Then Al Gore would absolve the former president of all criminal offenses committed while being in office.

Well -- we can dream, can't we? A WJC resignation would be good for the country, and it would convey a strong moral message so sorely needed. And -- I would look at WJC with new respect if he thought enough of the presidential office to do this. I don't really care if I make or lose money -- this is more important.

I really don't want to go through the trauma of an impeachment -- resignation is better for the country.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:38
Gollum (Yen up a little, Dollar down a little) ID#43349:
Gold still just hanging there.

That's it for me. Good night.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:35
Flash (blooper) ID#301318:
:- ) ) you old republican fart, take a Viagra. :- ) )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:34
Who Cares?__A (Damn Drudge) ID#242328:
It's not a resignation.

It's quotes from law professor Bill Clinton about Nixon. : )

Clinton won't resign.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:33
ForkLift__A (Clinton resignation @ Drudgereport) ID#156161:
Nothing to get excited about, it refers to
Clinton, in 1974, calling for Nixon's head
for lying and abusing power through the FBI.
It will take the political equivalent of the
Battan Death March to get this guy out of office.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:33
Gianni Dioro__A (Klinton Res) ID#384350:
What a bunch of Crapola, all it is are comments by Klinton on Nixon's Resignation.

I knew it couldn't be true, because if it were the Spoos would be limit up ( joking ) .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:33
Early Riser (Drudge re resignation) ID#228275:
I've seen the Drudge text. It's about Clinton comments in the 70's re Nixon resignation.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:32
fiveliter (Shek-IRS and Y2K) ID#341312:
Yes, you'd think it would be front page news all over the world that the IRS will cease to function in 500 days. This means the dollar ceases to function since the IRS is responsible for, by their own accounting, 95% of the revenue stream of the US Govt. No means of collecting taxes=death of currency. For those who did not read Cory Hamasaki's lengthy 500 days to go DC weather report, I strongly urge you do so. It's a decidely grim picture from a veteran COBOL programmer in the Y2K trenches. I've given up on telling people about it anymore except for my parents and a certain disreputable group of goldbug libertarians because I've had it with the condescending, smug smiles and the Thanks for the article about the GAO citing lack of progress in whatever that was... I'll read it later. Yea, REAL SOON NOW, as Scary Gary puts it. Sure you will. Of course, as the dollar goes so goes the rest of the electronic and paper currency. Which leaves none other than the local favorites in these parts, gold and silver. Buy as much of the physical you can and put it somewhere safe. No, Squirrel and Grizz, I won't be trading a 1 oz Leaf for a can of beans and I doubt anyone else will either because those who are farsighted enough to have gold and silver coins will also likely be prepared for food ( and other ) shortages. To end on an even more pessimistic note than usual, I think history will scorn our generation as being so vain and foolish to allow a simple date convention to unravel an entire way of life. No, not the end of the world. But the end of an era nonetheless. The decade of lies and corruption comes to a fitting end.
...500 days to go...
PS: Come on stock market bulls! That last rally was PATHETIC! I want to see some p/e's SOAR tomorrow. I want to see crappy companies with no earnings hit triple digit ratios! Get out there and BUY BUY BUY! Put the South Sea Bubble and Tulipmania to shame! Show'em what a REAL RED-BLOODED AMERICAN mania looks like! So I want you to get out there on that trading floor one last time and ( said with a tear glistening in my eye ) ---
Win One For The Dipsters!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:31
JTF (Clinton Resignation?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Matt Drudge claims to have a world exclusive. Is this like that Russian earthquake that wasn't? Perhaps someone is pulling his leg.

I cannot believe Matt Drudge would be the only source of news this hot -- if it really were true. But the news does have to begin somewhere. And WJC would be doing the morally correct thing for once -- even if this is not understood for what it is outside the USA.

Just in case there is a resignation -- what will this do to the markets? Up or down? I don't have a clue. Gold would probably go up. The general equity markets might actually go up -- but who knows? Al Gore as president -- but for how long before he gets embroiled in Campaigngate?

Perhaps there is a behind the scenes negotiation going on -- to get Al Gore off the hook in future criminal investigations. I know! - Clinton absolved of all wrongdoing by president Al Gore, after he admits to all ( or many ) of the xxxgate issues.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:30
Earl (Spock:) ID#227238:
Copyright © 1998 Earl/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Your list of humam shortcomings is true so far as it goes. At the same time it begs the question: Should they be overlooked and excused, simply because they are a part of the human condition?

If we expect less from leaders, as we have surely done, we will invariably get less in return.

After all, they are seekers of those jobs. For whatever reason. If we require special restrictions on personal conduct as a result of holding office, they are still left with one more option than someone in the military. ..... They can leave or choose not to run for office in the first place.

It should also be borne in mind that there is absolutely nothing in the elective process, anywhere in the world, that sifts and winnows the best and brightest for public office. Very likely the opposite is true. It is the work of but a moment to find 100,000 more equally unqualified to replace him. ....... And if sex continues to be a problem, we'll neuter 'em before installation.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:30
Tantalus__A (GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD : President Newt Gingrich?) ID#374204:
I personally like Gingrich, but running him for Pres.US would be
like replacing Bart with Bill Clinton here. It simply can't happen.

Tooo bad.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:30
Gollum (Never mind) ID#43349:
I thought sure Drudge would get his text out by now, but I guesd not. So forget what I said about watching gold. Boy, if you want something done right you just gotta do it yourself.

I could go downstairs and tweak some levers, but it's getting too late now. Maybe tomorrow.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:27
Realistic (@Golden Cheesehead) ID#410194:
Copyright © 1998 Realistic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Are you sure that the Dow topped and Gold bottomed?

It certainly looked like it for you in October 97 but we all know what happened!

Are you REALLY sure?

Can you tell us when you got rid of your 955 short S&Ps?


Date: Mon Oct 27 1997 19:30
Just got Nick Guarino's latest fax ( 20 pages long! ) . Guarino is BEARISH! BEARISH! BEARISH! On US stock market, US Dollar, and US Bond market! How does Dow 4000 by Christmas grab ya? But he is BULLISH, BULLISH, BULLISH on the metals! $400 gold by Christmas! $6.00 min. silver by Christmas! Nick also says to SHORT, SHORT, SHORT the SPOOS and is guaranteeing all his subscribers DOUBLE their money back ( $10,000 ) if they don't make AT LEAST $100,000 trading his recos by the end of their subscriptions ( $5,000/yr. ) I'm in as of two weeks ago and short from 955! Bot DEC. Gold at $310 on Friday! Looking to buy silver at $4.90 MIT. The meltdown has just begun! Wait till Japan and China sell their US T-BILLS and T-BONDS!
WOW! RATES will SOAR! Bonds will CRASH with STOCKS! And GOLD will ROCKET! A Green and Gold victory over the Patriots tonight will confirm! GO PACK!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:26
Grizz (Is Gold trading at the local grocery yet?) ID#424394:
Answer: Nope and not likely to.
Too bad. Well, I crawl back in my cave for a while then.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:26
Grizz (Is Gold trading at the local grocery yet?) ID#424394:
Answer: Nope and not likely to.
Too bad. Well, I crawl back in my cave for a while then.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:26
Gollum (@ERLE) ID#43349:
For fairly up to date futures quotes try:

Also the spot quotes and charts at:

semm to be working tonight.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:25
robnoel__A ( a desire for civility I will offer up a poem....maybe you will understand our passion) ID#396249:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:23
bmacd (Rumpled-TVX) ID#261322:
No the court case is still not settled. They expect a verdict very shortly, hopefully before fall. They expext no more than a slap on the wrist ( a fine )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:16
blooper (Golden Cheesehead, where is realistic when we really need him?) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:16
Tantalus Rex (@spock) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

You're right when you say that IF BC broke the law then he needs to be held accountable.

To put it bluntly, BC needs to be PUNISHED!! And so you may say I've passed judgement too early on the guy. Too bad then, I don't need DNA evidence to convict BC cause it's pretty clear to me. He's a total disgrace to the American people. A total disgrace. Shame on him.

This forgiveness bullshit he's planting is totaly deplorable. The guy is a real A-Hole. The guy has no heart. He's just an actor. I'm sorry Spock. But that's telling it like it is.

Let's not forgive anybody WITHOUT taking JUSTICE into consideration.
Yep, you can't have peace without justice.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:15
blooper (Flash; BOOOOOO) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:14
Earl (Scrolling up.) ID#227238:
Mr. Mick: Very likely the problem is in the file name you have chosen. It probably already exists in that directory. Cruise the directory and see if that file already exists. ......Try uploading again with a different file name.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:13
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Today was distribution Wednesday! BC is now toast! ONE LAB SAYS ITS POSITIVE! BC had multiple sexual encounters with ML and a witness to that effect is now ready to testify against BC and that will lead to charges of perjury! The right shoulder has been formed! We now take out the neckline and unzipper this naked bull! BC is now a national security risk! The leaders of the world, especially in the Middle East, no longer trust him. Radical Islam and Saddam is determined to challenge him and bank failures in Japan and China will destroy the bull market, send us into recession and turn public sentiment against him! Gore is also about to be gored by Reno's special new prosecutor concerning Chinagate! Say hello to President Newt Gingrich! BC will be TIED down in court for decades and will go down in history as the most corrupt politician ever to ocupy the Oval Office! These problems will not be lost on the markets!

And so I repeat. THE DOW HAS TOPPED OUT! GOLD HAS BOTTOMED OUT! AND the ship of State is now floundering in a sea of scandal! What a mess!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:13
crazytimes (One comment about possible Clinton Resignation...) ID#342376:
The terrorist groups that are bombing Embassies would use the resignation to step up terrorist attacks. Things could really snowball. If that happens we will be glad we've got gold, ain't nobody gonna short gold then. It's the wild card for the POG, major crisis. I wouldn't want a gold bull to start that way. I can wait till the launch of the EURO.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:11
ERLE (Gollum) ID#190411:
Would you please post the source for your gold quotes?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:10
blooper (Laughable: Clinton's gonna FIX SOCIAL SECURITY. That is sick.) ID#207145:
How the hell does he plan to do that: Make retirement age 93.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:07
Spock (Beaming Up now..........) ID#210114:
Go Gold!! Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:07
Earl () ID#227238:
Chrisophilos: Good post. Pretty much what we discuss here everyday. The only additional comment would be that your excessive use of the word American made it a bit personal. I may be an American, along with 250 million others, but we have little to do with US monetary policy. In fact, we American goldbugs have been noticeably impoverished as a result of the policy. ....... You will find few fans of it here.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:06
blooper (Spock, you gotta love it man, come on. Hes a Republican at heart) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:06
chas (Clinto RES) ID#147211:
Just like him- take the easy way out

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:04
Spock (Thanx Tanatalus-A) ID#210114:
Your restraint re:BC is to be congratulated. There seems to be more time spent bashing BC on this line than talking about gold.

Best wishes.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:03
Gollum (9:00 edt golf down 30¢) ID#43349:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:03
Hedgehog (Exclusive on US Airforce) ID#39857:
Moths. Black like midnight and they dont make a sound. Took
my breath away. These babies look very very impressive. Can
any warplane buffs out there confirm what I have seen with
my own eyes.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 21:02
Flash (Spock) ID#301318:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:59
Silverbaron (OOPS. That's $ 287.60 sorry. (data from CBS Marketwatch)) ID#288295:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:58
blooper (Spock ) ID#207145:
I'm beaming you up.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:57
crazytimes (ALL) ID#342376:
Drudge Report headlines are: WORLD EXCLUSIVE TONIGHT: CLINTON: RESIGNATION! However, when you click on Drudge report, it shows yesterday's article about Clinton wearing the Lewinsky tie. I guess it's not posted yet.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:57
Gianni Dioro__A (Klinton Res) ID#384350:
Globex doesn't seem to have taken too much notice -150

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:56
Silverbaron (GC Z8 $297.60, up $ .40) ID#288295:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:55
APH (Sequin) ID#255226:
R.Dennis didn't go broke in 1994. He was managing 2 commodity pools with $50 million each, they both went bust. The partners in the pool filed a class action suit aganist him. He paid back some percent of the money out of his own pocket plus he had some of his own money in the pool. When it was all over he was said to still have an estimated $200 million net worth and he swore never to manage money again.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:53
Tantalus__A (Spock, let's be logical. ) ID#374204:
I'm more right wing than most Republicans, yet I called for a moratorium
on Bill bashing until after he spoke out. And I agree with Republicans in
Congress who say we should wait for K Starr to submit his report.
I haven't posted negative comments about Bill since Friday last.
Face it. If you support BC at this sight you're gonna get flack.

Your takes on gold and the markets are very informative and well considered. - Regards

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:53
Gollum (Checking) ID#43349:
Gold down about 25¢

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:49
Silverbaron (Drudge) ID#288295:

I can't get through anymore - their server must be
jammed. If someone else gets in, please post the
article. Thanks.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:48
MoReGoLd (@CLINTON will not be HOMELESS ........) ID#348286:
He has a luxury house waiting for him in CHINA ......

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:46
Gianni Dioro__A (JIN Thanks for the Update) ID#384350:
We don't get that sort of news through our media.

Please, tell us if people have currency, or are they resorting to barter. Are people trying to hold dollars or Gold/Silver instead of Rupiah?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:46
Tantalus Rex (@Chrisophilos, ECB Gold Selling/Backing/Leasing) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The ECB needs to severely restrict the sales/leasing of Gold held in member nations in order to make the previous announcement of 15% gold reserves relevant.

But I doubt the restrictions will be severe enough and how to you enforce such restrictions? I believe the ECB and member nations still want the flexibility to control the POG, as they do so now.

I've heard a draft document by/under ECB head Duissberg outling the policy on gold sales is being REVISED at this moment!!!!!!
So they may make an announcement at any time cause they are very close to a final decision.

However, I believe that an announcement will be made in the fall, October/November.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:46
MoReGoLd (@Just Experimenting......) ID#348286:
Me thinks CLINTON is inhailing NOW !

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:43
MoReGoLd (@Gold is still good, says Macmahon - Gotta like that headline !) ID#348286:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold is still good, says Macmahon

By Simon Evans

Mining contractor and civil engineer Macmahon Holdings Ltd has forecast profit growth of 5 to 10 per cent in 1998-99 and vowed to continue to pursue gold mining contracts even though some analysts believe the company is overexposed to the sector.

The company yesterday reported a 26.1 per cent decline in net profit to $13.2 million for 1997-98, with the bottom line weighed down by $6.5 million in abnormal items.

The abnormals stemmed from writedowns at the company's Indonesian operations and the collapse of a mining contract at the Woodie Woodie manganese project in Western Australia. They were both sustained in the first half.

Managing director Mr Graeme Beissel said the group would continue to seek gold mining contracts from high-quality clients and would not be hoodwinked by analysts who suggested the company had too much gold exposure.

We're believers in gold, particularly with the Aussie dollar being where it is at the moment, he said.

Macmahon's total work on hand at June 30 was $722 million, with gold mining contracts representing about 45 per cent of the order book.

About 13 per cent of the work is based in South-East Asia but Mr Beissel said the company still expected to make a modest profit in 1998-99 from its operations in Indonesia and Malaysia even though both markets were likely to sour up a bit.

Macmahon's sales revenue for 1998-99 was expected to be about $520 million, compared with the actual sales figure of $472 million for 1997-98.

Operating profit before tax and abnormals increased by 8.2 per cent to a record $24.7 million.

Margins across the contract mining business were expected to remain tight.

I wouldn't see any change in margins over the next 12 months, Mr Beissel said.

Macmahon also signalled that it was likely to begin franking its dividends again in the financial year 2000-01, for the first time since the early 1990s. The company paid a steady dividend in the second half of 2¢.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:43
Silverbaron (Tantalus) ID#288295:

The leader has now changed from
Clinton Talks Resignation
to Clinton Resignation or smething to that effect.

Gold is pretty ALL the year.


Gollum, is this your market mover?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:43
JIN (Silverbaron...please post about BC resignation report!) ID#206358:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:40
Spock (The Right Wing Backlash) ID#210114:
Copyright © 1998 Spock/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yesterday I posted comments about BC called Who Cares.

Well the backlash didn't take long.

Firstly, I never said BC or anyone else was above the law. If he broke the law, he should be called to account.

Secondly, I did say that he was wrong to lie. But which President never lied to the public? Nixon lied about using the Secret Service to break into the Democratic headquarters. Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin, and Clinton lied about.......... a blowjob.

Hardly seems in the same league does it

And you know the old saying, 'let he who is free of sin, let him cast the first stone'. I guarantee you that about one half of the general public have had an affair at some stage and lied about it. That's life. That's human nature. Everyone is so pious and self rightous when it comes to everyone else's sex life. I couldn't give a stuff about what people do in bed; that's their business not mine. Oh, yes, I'm sure a lot of Republican legislators have also had affairs and are lying about it to their constituents.

Like I said, it seems most of you are just cranky Republicans who can't handle a Democrat getting two terms.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:40
ERLE (Clinton joins the ranks of the homeless) ID#190411:
if he resigns. He has no real estate to go back to.
I think it's just terrible to contemplate the Commander-In-Heat pushing a shopping cart around dumpsters looking for his next meal.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:39
Tantalus__A (Just one gulp and my grammmer is atroshus. They're, not there.) ID#374204:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:37
Gianni Dioro__A (Skinny - All Paper Currencies) ID#384350:
...eventually go to zero.
You think of the price of Gold going up, whereas I see it as the Canadian Dollar going down. I see gold as a good investment, especially as preserving capital/buying power over the long term. The rise of Gold in many currencies during this turmoil confirms Gold as a good investment. Sure, people can't afford as much of it especially in regards to jewelry, that is of secondary importance as far as Currency Collapse, Y2K, and bank runs are concerned.

When I was in Oz on holiday, I picked up around a few nuggets ( 1oz coins ) , there was an Aussie there at the counter buying gold. We both looked at each other like we were about to bungy jump for the first time. Do you think Gold will go up?, he said. I replied it might rally, but I think it will make another low. But then again, when you look at SE Asia... He nodded his head and went along with the transaction. Gold is trading at the same price in USDollars as then, but in Aus Dollars it is up a bit. It was Aus$440. I think its around A$480 now.

Again you can think about relative values, and swings in currencies. But it appears that they are all going down, sooner or later.

You should go down to Mexico or Cuba and ask them why they want Dollars, they can probably give you a better answer than me.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:35
Tantalus__A (Baron of Silver - BC considers resignation - not yet posted) ID#374204:
Methinks he is threatening us with the President Gore possibility.
I don't care for either of them, but the Gore threat combined with the
tumult caused by a BC resignation is a playable trump card.

got rhody's? there very pretty, like gold.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:34
Mr. Mick (Hey Bart, how does one get permission to upload a file to your web server?) ID#345321:
Something wrong somewhere.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:31
JIN (ENVY,GOLDBUG 23 AND AURIC!Good day..from me!) ID#206358:
Copyright © 1998 JIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My friends,Envy,Auric and Goldbug 23,

Thanks for the post and concern.
Below are my honest and brieftly views about Asian outlook.The regional been hit hard both the currencies ,stocks,properties equities and ect.Things looks really bad and worsen day by day.Life style has change,Govts leaders changed,polisies rebuilt,communities restuctured….and on.Crimes rates higher,illegal immigrants wonderings around,product looks down ( more competing ) ,is DOMiNO EFFECThere.
More,since the new leaders have their own thoughts,ways,problem in house,they seem cooperate in some issues but some the others way,I can say both in SELFISH ATTITUDE. ( nature?!I bet ) .Many hot news,rubbish still hiding under the carpets of Asean.We been living in the Dream for so long….until this big impact swept us liked hack.We realised now,back to the real world.But now,all these naked children stand one by one,row by row under the powerful big hands asking from helps….Indonesia,korea and thailand…next……next…….wait……Don't hurry..your turn…..soon?
Off course,one day we might stand up again.Some predict 3 years,more said 5 or 6!But soon the day will come.Still,in my deepest mind,…not any civil war happening around the region.if one happening,the SITUATIONS GET WORSEN.
There are many news been post by DONALD,STEVE,JTF, ….are just great.And some of the Vronsky and friends article are superb .thanks Bart and co,too!
Will write more to this lovly KITCOgarden.

Anytime is a good time to start,
Compared with never start at all.

We are trying now……..!!Very hard this time….this time….!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:28
Gollum (Interesting) ID#43349:
Gold is up about 35 cents, seems a little early though.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:26
Hedgehog (Beat me to it Sir Silverbaron) ID#39857:
This is clearly a moral question the whole of the US has to
address. This story could change the face of US politics
for the good. Here I am with fingers crossed. Lets hope
BC is kept well away from buttons he loses control of.
DNA Willie has a brain downstairs. No control of his

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:24
Chrisophilos (Gold, the American, the american and the All-Mighty Buck.) ID#277302:
Copyright © 1998 Chrisophilos/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The war against the All-Mighty Buck ( AMB ) must be a well co-ordinated world-wide effort. It will be a mistake for Japan and/or China to launch an assault on the US$ without the commitment and aid of at least a few European, North and South American, African, Arab and other Asian counties including Australia and New Zealand. The American needs to be taught a hard lesson for his irresponsible monetary policy, one that he will remember for a very long time so that he will never attempt to impoverish and enslave the world in such an indiscriminate manner again.
One may wonder, why would the European want to participate in such an assault against the US$, after all, the select european currencies are holding up relatively well against the US$ and the European wants a strong $ so that he can sell all his goods to the american people. The american however, isn't really buying with any authority but waiting to get an even better deal as his AMB continues to strengthen and also continues to throw what's left of his disposable income into an ever-irrationally exuberant stock market. Does this picture smack of deflation? You bet it does, yet the American is worried about inflation. It will be a COLD DAY IN HELL when inflation starts to show up in the American's economy as long as this current pace of world-wide devaluation in currencies and commodity prices versus the AMB continues unabated.

The European must realize that the USA is a relatively small market vis-a-vis the entire world. There is a market of several billion people out there that have lost their appetite for spending along with their real purchasing power, simply because the American wants to spend less and less for whatever he buys. The European must also realize that based on the American's record so far, that the American's Grand Plan surely includes an illegal abortion on the un-born Euro or certainly a crib death shortly after its birth. The devastating pace of world-wide currency devaluations should serve as ample proof that the American plans to subjugate the Euro as well and that it will be easier for him to do it before or shortly after its birth.

The timing for the assault on the AMB is critical at this point because the spreading devaluations of all other currencies are rapidly injecting critical mass into the US$ and once this critical mass is achived, no concerted action, co-ordinated or otherwise, will be enough to reverse the absolute dominance of the AMB as the world's only viable currency, ( the American's dream ) .

Gold played a very large role in the over-exuberant rise of the AMB thus it must also play an equally large role in its demise. The American's massive Gold hoard is protected from sale by his constitution so he devised a scheme to diminish Gold's value and convinced other countries to sell or announce impending sales of their Gold reserves so as to eliminate Gold's credibility and traditional role as a safe heaven currency in times of socio-economic turmoil. Once this was accomplished the American unleashed the full force of his market-moving powers ( George soreass et al ) in an unrelenting onslaught on the currencies of the S/E Asian countries. The resulting flight of capital from these economies had no other viable alternative safe heaven so it piled into the AMB.

The currency devastation that was started in S/E Asia quickly spread to other Asian countries and then continued its spread to commodity exporting countries ( since demand for commodities evaporated from a large part of the world ) and thus the flight of capital to the land of the AMB began to cascade uninterrupted, devastating the currencies of one country after another while the American held the reins tight on his strong $ policy.

It is imperative at this stage for the European Central Bank to make a clear and quick decision on its future plans for the Gold reserves of its member states and to remove the uncertainty over any future sales. Even better, a timely statement by the ECB to the effect that there will be a moratorium on Gold sales from any of its member states reserves will do wonders toward halting the disastrous, world-wide currency devaluations versus the AMB. The American off course will object to this and may even threaten a constitutional amendment to allow him to sell his Gold but it will only be a bluff and the world will recognize it as such.

It is really mind-boggling to consider that a nation with a 0.5% savings rate and indebted to the hilt to the rest of the world, living an exuberant lifestyle on credit and having an ever-ballooning trade deficit continues to enjoy one of the world's strongest currencies....there is definitely something wrong with this picture...the world has only to wake up and realize it and stop giving credit where credit is long overdue.

The American's fear of inflation may be rooted in the fear of the collapse of his AMB should he dare to ease even a 1/4 point in his interest rates. There will be no inflation in the American's economy until all the hoarded capital from the world is repatriated. Then and only then will this planet's economic and socio-political health be restored to any sense of normalcy.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:23
BCIWN (You think Slick Willie) ID#206298:
will resign from a job where he is getting free haed jobs? Think again my friend.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:20
Silverbaron (Drudge) ID#288295:

Apparently the text isn't posted yet.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:17

Drudge exclusive headline ( I haven't read the
article )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:15
ERLE (2BR02B) ID#190411:
RANGY, that ol' high flyer has been caught by the rest of the goldstocks. Now they're all down by 50% since April. Slumbuddies, all.
I got my nice expensively printed quarterly report from Anglogold. ( AU.NYSE ) . I'd rather have my old Western Deeps. I wish these guys would come up with a plan to have an easily accessable website to view the documents, rather than blowing precious cash on reports.
They could e-mail a notice that the new results are posted, and only supply the reports to those that specifically ask for them.
Did you put in your order at market for SGOLY? When I looked this morning the bid/ask was 15%. WOW! Good luck.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:11
BCIWN (@Gollum) ID#206298:
Come on Gollum. If you wish for us to take pleasure in your knowledge, tell us what is up? Gandalf wishes you to tell us all so we can be prepared.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:05
skinny (Gianni Dioro) ID#287114:
Your point is very well explained.
My point is..An American pays $283.oo for an ounce of gold today, A Canadian pays $400.00, very exspensive to him but cheap to the American.
The only gamble the American has is the price of gold will go down.
The Canadian gambles on the value of the U.S.A. $,,,,,The value of the Canadian dollar and the price of gold, A three way gamble.
Do you think I am wrong on this assuption.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:04
FOX-MAN__A (Well, I gots to go. see ya tomorrow...) ID#288186:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:04
Selby (Clothing Advice Needed) ID#286230:
Just found out that on Saturday night I will be at a restaurant on King Street in Toronto where Ken Starr ate 2-3 weeks ago during the US Bar Association convention. I know I should keep my zipper up----but should I wear a tie?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:03
Gianni Dioro__A () ID#384350:
No one is blind, but he who will not see.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:03
Silverbaron (The Hatt) ID#288295:

I wish no credit for this one - I'm just the messenger. As to why they are ignoring it - surely it is for selfish interests. The old head-in-the-sand, things couldn't be better here approach.

Very soon there may be large regrets that nobody paid more attention to the problem. This Japanese and Chinese bank thing has the potential ( worst case ) of being the trigger for financial doomsday, IMHO.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 20:00
FOX-MAN__A (ok. Too slow. Time to guess...) ID#288186:
1 ) Do you expect the Globex goblins to come out and do some heavy selling?
2 ) Is there a rumor, that you know about, that will be announced?
3 ) Are you planning on a huge buy on Globex and drive the price of
Gold up to 360.00 just so you can help out ole ANOTHER?
4 ) Will Mary-Lou get pregnant?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:55
2BR02B? (barking at the fridge) ID#266105:

crazytimes-- and p/e of 3. I'm just a Disney protege,
dunno if that's Goofy, Grumpy, Dopey or Sneezy.

I shun'ta done that.

Hey Erle howza rangy.

Shun'ta done that either.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:52
Spock (What now?) ID#210114:
Anyone know why gold fell away ( again ) in New York trading

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:52
Spock (Beaming in.......) ID#210114:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:47
The Hatt (Silverbaron/ My apologies gave usa gold credit should of gone to you!) ID#294232:
My friend from Japan is very much a goldbug and is well connected in japan and your post echoed his comments. Why do you think that the world is shutting its eyes to the extent of Asias problems? Perhaps it is that fear word and as a result they continue to deny the existance of Asias problems.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:46
crazytimes (hey Gollum) ID#342376:
Speculation or do you know something? Are you messing with the Gold Levers?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:46
FOX-MAN__A (Gollum; Do you wish to expand on what you believe is going to happen?) ID#288186:
Inquiring minds, want to know!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:40
Gollum (Ninety minutes) ID#43349:
Keep your eye om gold in about an hour and a half.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:40
clone (mozel, Aragorn III...) ID#267344:
Copyright © 1998 clone/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aragorn III - your response and advice are well received, but the answer of your first question is no. The subject of my question to mozel does not concern reporting requirements or government tracking of funds - although these issues are important to me. My present question to mozel involves the concern that as a result of y2k I will probably not be able to withdraw my wages from the bank and, further, I will not receive my tax return in a timely manner ( if at all ) . I am sure you agree that there are troubled times ahead. A solution to these very real possibilities is to collect my FULL wages in cash directly from the corporation that employs me and waiting until April 15th to send in my voluntary taxes in full. My question to mozel is how possible this is in a legal sense.

mozel - I am done being exploited in the name of Freedom. Where does the path start?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:38
2BR02B? (@ERLE) ID#266105:

That was my 1000, over half the volume. Wow.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:38
crazytimes (St. Helena (SGOLY)) ID#342376:
I remember John Disney speaking of SGOLY. They show a yield of almost 25%. Can that be true?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:29
ERLE (@ Rumpled) ID#190411:
I don't know what's up with TVX, and I have asked too. I picked up some more Kinross at 2.3125 . I had an order in for SGOLY ( St. Helena ) , one of Disney's touts. It was for 3000 shares at 2.50. someone bought 100 shares at 2.50 this morning, and someone bought 1000 at 2.875. Total trades in SGOLY was 1700 shares. Lets see- that comes out to $4850. Big time volume eh?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:28
Gollum (@Gandalf the White ) ID#43349:
Anything is possible, but it's hard to reconcile a 200 point drop for the DOW with the other two charts. Especially on a Thursday.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:26
blooper (The American Government could use gold backing also. Go gold.) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:25
Gianni Dioro__A (Skinny - Depressed Currencies) ID#384350:
Copyright © 1998 Gianni Dioro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To your common Mexican or Russian, the choice between the Peso/Rouble and the Dollar is obvious. Which one has held its value better? The answer is the Dollar.

Now to more sophisticated Asians many of them would opt for Gold/Silver and to a good extent the Dollar as well.

Think if you had the choice to invest in a few different companies through shares. One company, the local monopoly, is poorly run is losing money, and its share price keeps dropping ( Rupiah ) . Compare that to a company whose value is rising and appears to be better managed ( USD ) , and third a solid company with low earnings, but that has been around for 1000's of years and is a sure value ( Gold ) .

Now, with each new stream of Income for these people are they going to keep their money in the local company ( currency ) , or will they opt for something safer. I think they will opt for Gold/Dollars. Once these countries reemerge, their appetite for precious metals will come back with a vengeance.

Of Course if you have a knack for currencies, and possibly inside information you can position yourself in currencies to take advantage of swings. I am not saying nor do I think the Dollar is this great currency, but many people in other countries do. For the most part, the dollar remains strong through dollar-denominated loans to foreign nations, where the interest must be paid back in dollars.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:24
blooper (Gold backing is much more than having in your vault.) ID#207145:
Neither the US nor the Euro is seriously considering backing their currency with gold. Having gold is one thing, backing it is ANOTHER.
The European welfare state probably needs real backing.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:09
Aragorn III (moa...or is my question indiscreet?) ID#212323:
Away....for now.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:09
Hedgehog (Trends 2000 ....Celente) ID#39857:
Gold up up and away yr 2000. Miners get big kick up the arse
as taxpayers face a cleanup bill of 72 billion.
Oh and how is that tailings dam near Butt going.
You will reclaim your wilderness as miners learn to wipe
their own arse. I could go on and on. Anyone got any wiews
on the Trends Research Institute.?
Oh boy and today is the day for Normandy. Tiger fund might not
be very happy. rrrrrroarrrrrrr

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:08
blooper (moa. We have gold in our vault... Still our dollar is not backed.) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:07
Aragorn III ( may have given me cause to smile. Are you answering the call of roll?) ID#212323:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:02
moa__A (One wise kiwi posted (before his unnecessary demise)) ID#281175:
Gold floats with Goldman.....

got gold? man!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:01
Aragorn III (Away...) ID#212323:
to see if I have the means to make Allen ( USA ) , too, a millionaire!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 19:00
Leland (Colin Seymour's Hot Potato News. Good Reading.) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:58
Spud Master (@SteveIS re. holding things togther a little longer) ID#28586:
yes, I too wondered that Goldman Sach was up for sale; why would they sell a concern that has been going for so many years, eh?

Clearly a case of selling soon-to-be-worthless assets to John Q. Rube before the collapse.

They will, of course, buy it back for peanuts after the collapse & start the charade all over again -- but not from the smoking post-gang-warfare ruins of Boston, New York, Baltimore, Chicago etc.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:58
Aragorn III ( your post to mozel, were you specifically worried about the cash reporting requirements) ID#212323:
And the subsequent potential for penalties when failing to report threshold levels of cash withdrwals?

Worry not, my fine duplicate friend. Cashing a check is not the same as making a cash withdrawal. Besides, BIG BROTHER has his paper trail right there in the form of your paycheck. Cash away, Oh two-fisted paper pusher!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:57
moa__A ( ECB will have no gold... ) ID#281175:
in the vault?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:57
skinny (Gianni Dioro) ID#287114:
Just checking you out.....Dead on..
O.K.........So why would any one buy gold with a depressed currancy, it may be worth far more in 1 month, and the price of gold down.
Or the U.S.A. dollar may go the way of the as many of the far outs predict.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:52
Rumpled (TVX?) ID#411233:
What's the deal with TVX lately? I realize all metal stocks are suffering,
but this baby seems to be DEAD IN THE WATER. Have they settled
their court case yet?---THANKS.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:51
mozel (@clone) ID#153102:
There are circumstances under which the end result desired by your questions would be achieved. But they are not universal circumstances. The situation would result from deliberate choices. Because corporations are creatures of government and subject to the will of the legislatures.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:50
blooper (moa, no gold backing for euro. ANOTHER 6000.00 misconception.) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:47
Gianni Dioro__A (Dutchman, JIN - Gold buying) ID#384350: individuals whose countries' currencies are under pressure must be mounting. Also, some people talk about the dishording by those whose currencies have been ravaged. My take is that once these people get some cash, they will likely convert to Gold, Silver, or possibly Dollars, shunning their national currencies.I would like to hear JIN's comments on this.

JIN, are some people trying to convert to Gold or Dollars, or do they still have faith/confidence in the Rupiah?

Skinny, Vive le Québec libre!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:47
moa__A (beetle, bug, grasshopper, weta....whatever.) ID#281175:
Consider this:

i ) US dollar is topping out,
ii ) Euro may be backed by gold in which case will be viewed as strong,
iii ) Either way, weak Euro or strong Euro, Gold will be strong.

Simple really.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:45
chas (JTF re email) ID#147201:
Nothing yet

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:44
RETIRED SOLDIER (Robnoel) ID#347235:
I didnt have much time to read it today, promise to tommorow, but remember the recent overturn of executive orders by an overwhelming majority of congress once they received publicity! This will work, the Consitution still works and I am hoping for more of it. You,Ken Hamblin,Mike ReaganmGG Liddy and Rush all keep at it! By the way are you on the air in Alaska? I havent found you here, but since I am moving to Europe soon wont be able to listen for long.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:43
skinny (Tolerant1) ID#287114:
No Gulps.........NoGulps........ Monica;;;;;;;; Americas sweetheart///
She didn't inhale. ?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:39
Tantalus Rex (Newmont Gold) ID#295111:
All right!! NEM up 11/16 today. I added more shares of NEM yesterday at 17 bucks. I love it when I can buy stocks like NEM so cheap. yahoo!!

As I've said in the past,
when the POG goes down as the XAU goes up, beware cause
there's a VERY good chance POG will soon spike upwards.
Time will tell.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:38
Aragorn III ( this what you call a gold grasshopper?) ID#212323:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:37
kapex (Have to run out. I will comment more later. Post on aol last night.) ID#218252:
Subject: It's Time to Buy!!!!
Date: Tue, Aug 18, 1998 21:31 EDT
From: Karlatapex

Time to buy guys, right now. The shakeout is complete! Buy HL at 4 5/8 or lower, NEM at anything below 20, and DROOY and ECO at market. Any further downside is Cherries on top! Have fun!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:35
Gandalf the White (Gollum (Tomorrow's DJIA crash)) ID#433301:
ONLY 50 points ?
I am looking for a drop of at least 200 !

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:35
moa__A (Beware the dragon has been aroused....) ID#281175:
Asia too roar back...

only this time not good for yankee....

good for gold grasshopper.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:33
Aragorn III (Gollum...your 18:22...) ID#212323:
...was priceless!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:33
mozel (@National Sales Tax) ID#153102:
Under what power to tax will this be enacted ? Name the Article, Section and Clause Or do you propose to grant by amendment a whole new power to tax. Aren't there enough already ?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:32
Gianni Dioro__A (Kapex, Elliott Wave) ID#384350:
That's the way I read it. Elliott wave has not been too easy to read on the Dow the past years, but for the past 12 months it seems to have been much truer to form.

In light of all the bad events that were going on Sunday evening ( Rouble, China, Globex ) , the PPT wasn't going to allow another 300 point down day when El Schmucko was going to be on national TV that night. A lot of buying was induced on Monday & Tuesday. Today was a transition day, and now we are quite possibly looking at another 5 wave sequence down in the days ahead.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:31
Aragorn III (Chas, you asked if I received a clear answer...) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ANOTHER provided the only kind of answer that I anticipated with my remarks falling within the very wide range of likelihood. The process is more important than the actual numbers as the perception of value is to be rewritten as defined by gold. Using my numbers simply serves to lead one down the path of our present global monetary system of U.S. paper money tenuously backed by oil, to a European monetary system built again upon gold. Because gold value is not commonly recognized, an attempt was made in my post to force the square peg into the round hole and provide a means to equate a measure of gold with a corresponding measure of transactional currency value.

A group of men, be they large or small, cannot precisely engineer a system so diverse as worldwide currencies such that one could say with any merit that the future price of gold will be $XXXXX. It is enough to say that the present manipulation to keep it otherwise will be brought to and end, and to explain the vehicle for the delivery. Money is an ever evolving quality in men's lives, and flexibility is indeed the watchword as we 'snap' back to the proper system after so long a departure. The harder you resist and fight for the old ways, the more turmoil you will suffer needlessly. If you hold only paper you will be in very good company in a very large boat with a very many of your friends. Life will indeed go on. And indeed, in this boat more paper is better than less paper. But a little gold will serve you much better through and after the transition--perhaps smooth and gradual, or more likely a 'snap'. Without any effort, you will find yourself with the Wealth of Nations.

got gold?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:27
kapex (One more time:) ID#218252:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:27
clone (Mozel, it is expensive to be ignorant of law...) ID#267344:
I have a two related questions for you:
- Is it possible to receive one's entire paycheck, without the government holding their part?
- Are the American people entitled to receiving their paycheck in cash ( vice check, e-transfer, etc... ) ?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:27
FOX-MAN__A (BTW, that 15k drawdown in Silver stocks was from the eligibles.) ID#288186:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:25
kapex (60 Minute chart of the Dow. Does this url take you to the chart?) ID#218252:
If not, let me know. Correction in 3 waves to the .382 retracement of the decline.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:25
kapex (60 Minute chart of the Dow. Does this url take you to the chart?) ID#218252:
If not, let me know. Correction in 3 waves to the .382 retracement of the decline.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:24
FOX-MAN__A (COMEX METAL WAREHOUSE TOTALS...didn't see it posted yet.) ID#288186:
COMEX Metal Warehouse Statistics for Aug. 19

Gold 1,033,276 + 0 troy ounces
Silver 78,205,867 - 15,128 troy ounces
Copper 57,997 + 0 short tons

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:22
Gollum (test) ID#43349:
the moon

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:18
Dutchman (The Hatt) ID#268260:
Copyright © 1998 Dutchman/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We seem to be on the same page with our analysis. I suspect that we have formed a bottom in gold. The BIS may, indeed, be proping up the POG at $280/oz. The high volume of gold sold today, 46 tons, and the high volume of nearly all gold shares traded today notes a huge divergence from the norm. The WGF states that there was a rise of nearly 50% demand for gold worldwide, compared to last quarter. The stock market is reeling and about to fall into the abyss. Kaplan reports that large amounts of currency are going into precious metals from those countries whose currencies are under pressure. It is only a matter of time before we see a huge rally in the POG and the mining shares. I will be buying more shares before long! Thanks for your feedback!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:17
kapex (Elliot Wave: It looks like the .382 area held the A-B-C correction.) ID#218252:
If that was the end, then it might get ugly, quick.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:13
skinny (Gianni Dioro) ID#287114:
Have enjoyed the posts for the last while, I have dug out my copy of the day of the Jackal for a re-read, one of the finest.
Also found a copy of the Arms of Krupp, enjoyed that also.
Charles De Gaulle started the Quebec separation bid up in Canada, he is thought of as dog crap in engish Canada.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:11
Gianni Dioro__A (Sequin, GoldDancer) ID#384350:
Copyright © 1998 Gianni Dioro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sequin, you're right, I didn't know he did all those evil things. I suppose most all leaders are self-serving. He has done things that I find evil as well, such as nationalising all the banks ( look at Credit Lyonnais' $30 Billion Bailout ) , utilities, etc, to the point where the elite have cushy jobs therein with loads of perks, while many common people can't afford much after being fleeced by France Telecom, EDF, rents, etc.

However, in the scheme of a balance of power, I admire the fact that he stood up against the Anglo-American alliance.

@GoldDancer, Since the T-note angle is the only angle not given any attention in the mainstream ( Stone's JFK ) , it must be the right one. It isn't a whole lot different from Lincoln's Assasination a century before.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:07
SteveIS__A (@The Hatt Re: 17:35) ID#287340:
Good post but don't underestimate Greenspan and Rubin. Rubin especially is trying to hold things together until Goldman Sach can go public. Why else would he stick around with little boy Clinton.

They are going to engineer a rally here. The thing to watch is the price of gold and the gold stocks. When they start to move up thats the sign that the final rally is in. Strong hands will move to gold before the stock market fails.

Got Gold!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:07
Gollum (@Gandalf the White ) ID#43349:
Aw, I think if it was only down fifty it would still track nicely.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:05
robnoel__A (Retired Soldier...All I ask you to do is read a few storys I have on my web...its all official stuff) ID#410198:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:03
Silverbaron (The Hatt) ID#288295:

For more on the Jpan-China thingy ... see my post at 6:41 this morning.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:03
Roebear (sharefin house) ID#412172:
Your 15:04 moistened the eye a bit, understanding the feeling, having contemplated the same with my own home by the water, as the young ones spread their wings. Best of luck, get lots of gold, may your next place be a grand home too. Just do not fall off the face of the Net like Ted!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 18:02
Oro__A (Gold Dancer Thanks) ID#185410:
Copyright © 1998 Oro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes, the GI generation is still trying to hold on in a way, but I don't believe it can do it. The current situation would happen with or without that generation. The investment industry has a vested interest in 1. keeping the market up. 2. Keeping the bond up. By proxie, 3. Keeping the dollar up.

The threats to all of this are not under their control: expiration of the cold war deal - US protects Europe and Japan, in return they give their products and services for next to nothing ( US dollars ) - quite fair in my opinion.

The gold sellers in each wave of the currency devaluation spiral are the natural resource economies in dire straits ( i.e. RUSSIA, soon Canada ) .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:55
CJS1__A (@Gianni Dioro__A ) ID#329157:
Copyright © 1998 CJS1__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Not at all, since I have already seen the film more than once,
and I have just finished the book. The book certainly fleshes
out the details but it would appear that the film is reasonably
true to the book unlike certain other films I could name.
Naturally, the Jackal receives payment through Swiss banks...
Those that care to cross-reference the fiction against the
reality may wish to check whether, in the second half of June
and the whole of July in 1963 France was rocked by an outbreak
of violent crime against banks, jewellers' shops and post offices
that was unprecedented at the time and has never been repeated

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:54
RETIRED SOLDIER (Gold Dancer) ID#347235:
Copyright © 1998 RETIRED SOLDIER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Welcome back to reality!! Fresh air is nice. I know there are people out there that plan and plot many different things, but to believe that the people mentioned could put aside their own interests long enough to plan the so called NWO and one world goverment thingy or that all nations will put aside their own nationalist feelings is ludicrous.The idea that the French will be suborndinate to the Germans, or the US to either or the totally impotent U.N. will rule every one is beyond belief. I do still think there are decent people who will come to the front eventually and put and end to a lot of what is going on, it will just take time. I feel the unrest and disgust building up in virtually every group I speak to. I am sure things will get better, if I didnt what would be the point of living? Shalom to you and all.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:35
The Hatt (Dutchman/ I agree with you!) ID#294232:
Copyright © 1998 The Hatt/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Have been monitering abx and pdg real time for the last sixty days and the trading pattern changed today.It seemed as the shorts were backing away or perhaps even covering. More times than not when you see the golds outperform the pog it is an indicator of a future move in the gold price. We certainly saw that today. However having said that the ppt were in the market during the last few minutes downticking these stocks. This type of trading is highly illegal in the US and Canada and it makes me laugh that no one questions this very obvious move to manipulate the market. I have always maintained that the only difference between the VSE and the almighty DOW is the value of the games.
As i watch this BEAR TRAP set up I cannot help but think that due to mutual funds the average investor does not see that they are using his or her contributions to hold up the market while paper goes from strong hands to weak. A good source told me last week that three major banks in Japan were within days of failing and low and behold members of the LDP are sending out warning signals as we speak. See USA GOLD for the full story. This same source has indicated that Japan will sell off US Treasuries and use the Yen to reflate their economy. He has also indicated that gold purchases are just around the corner and will be publicly disclosed. He says that the world has no idea how bad it really is in Japan and it would take years to dig themselves out! Will China devalue, well does a bear sh%% in the woods! It is going to be a mess and will shake the very foundation of the US economic pillars. As goldgugs across the world look in the mirror every night and wonder why gold has not yet reacted to this economic crisis, one must recognise that they have purposely sheltered the world from realizing the seriousness of this problem. They have also managed to keep gold in a holding pattern to avoid the baby boomers from panicking. As CNBC said a week ago not to worry if there was a real problem gold would have reacted... The bear is headed for the woods and i am not sure these baby boomers have any idea of what he is up to...... GO GOLD!!!!!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:32
Gold Dancer (Retired Soldier) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
O.K. I have bent over and pulled my head out of my ass. I see
no more conspiracys. No one kills anyone for their gain. The bankers
are out for the peoples good not their own.

Lets' get back to gold talk. Will the IRS fiasco cause gold to
rise? Will they be able to collect enough taxes or will the deficit
increase? How will the Fed know who much money to print if the
computers are down or the information is incomplete? In a fiat
money system this is important. In a gold money system things just
go along.

Don't like any of this. But it is not a conspiracy. Just dumb
luck. The results are going to be almost as bad!!!

Thanks, GD and GO GOLD and SILVER. SOON?!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:31
Gianni Dioro__A (Sequin, Yes, it is taboo) ID#384350:
@Sequin, I wonder if this Dr. John Coleman is still alive after writing a book like that.

@CJS1, I hope I didn't spoil the book for you. I saw the film the other night on TV. The book is supposed to be much better.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:23
6pak (Rubin & Greenspan Government Employee's? @ Corporate Lackey's, paid by taxpayer's (FRBank?=FRBoard?)) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
August 19, 1998

Toronto stocks outpace Dow on strong gold 2

TORONTO, Aug 19 ( Reuters ) - Toronto stocks outperformed the Dow Jones Industrial Average at midday on Wednesday boosted by strong gold and bank stocks.

The golds are quite strong today, the commodity opened up strong and that's holding up the market here with Barrick and Placer up, said one analyst.

Barrick Gold Corp. gained C$0.65 to C$25 and Placer Dome Inc. rose C$0.50 to C$15.90 in moderate midday trade on the Toronto Stock Exchange.

Nine of Toronto 14 subgroups gained with the gold subindex leading the way, up 2.1 percent,

August 19, 1998

Low returns no problem for millionaire Greenspan

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - The world's most powerful central banker

According to the report, Greenspan held between $2.4 million and $5 million in Treasury securities with a maturity of up to one year. Another $450,000 to $1 million was invested in money market and cash-management accounts.

He currently makes an annual salary of $137,600, but the Senate Finance Committee has recently proposed to raise his compensation to that of a cabinet member -- about $148,000. The raise has to be approved by Congress and signed into law by the President.

The report also revealed Greenspan's interest in one of the United States' best-known appartment buildings: He receives monthly income of at least $201 from renting out a parking space which he owns at the exclusive Watergate complex in the nation's capital.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:15
MM (Moon) ID#350179:
Nice work!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:10
Gold Dancer (IRS) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We all knew this was coming. Great news? Let us watch and
see what happens!!! A flat tax? Still requires collection with
people filling out forms. How about a value added tax at the source?

Time will tell but things look better and beter for gold as a
way to protect ones assets.

I am looking for a 6 to 9 month rally in gold into the
middle of next year. So it is interesting that the Russian situation
might cause them to do a gold deal for 1 year. And if the price of
gold went to $500 that would really help the Russians wouldn't it!!!!

All looks good for the gold rally to begin soon.

Even the powers that be will find a rising gold price
necessary to them. After they have accumulated of course.

Thanks, GD

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:09
Stilgar (Opinions requested) ID#290203:
Did the Federal Reserve Act Pass Legally?

Shek - a co-worker confided that he will not be having ANY federal taxes deducted in 99... If they can figure out how much I owe - then I'll pay it...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:06
jims (test) ID#252391:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:02
Gandalf the White (Gollum (re: MRCI DJIA tracking)) ID#433301:
Do you really think that tomorrow will be a 200 point down day ? Gandalf

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:02
Shek (IRS) ID#287279:
I meant national sales tax.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 17:02
SEQUIN (@ Gianni Dioro ) ID#25171:
Try to post this info all over the net and move to a new house with video surveillance of your former house. Then you will learn if it is true.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:51
SEQUIN (@ Goldteck) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good question.
I would think that DE GAULLE was meaning it at the time. The proof being that FRANCE had virtually won the Algerian war when it capitulated in 1962 at EVIAN in front of what was going to be one of the most corrupted government in the history of the third world.
He realized a little bit late that his colonialist attitude could taint his image and nothing mattered more to DE GAULLE than his place in history. He envisioned himself as the personification of FRANCE.
International pressure was building up in the UN against FRANCE as the AMERICANS and the RUSSIANS hoped to get the oil and gas that had just been found in the SAHARA desert. The USSR ended up controlling ALGERIA for 20 years . Unluckily for the ALGERIANS . ( and the FRENCH as well )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:51
Gollum (@rhody) ID#43349:
Check out how we are tracking now:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:50
JTF (Question for the y2k gurus) ID#57232:
It is my impression that Social Security has been working diligently since 1989 to be y2k compliant. Unfortunately, they use a government financial/check printing service that doesn't even know what y2k is. And -- apparently the amount of code that needs to be fixed is staggering. Anyone know if this is the same check printing service that takes care of all Federal employees?

Could be interesting if all Federal Employees suddenly found themselves without any money come y2k. Could be a few angry Congressmen, too. I think we are talking about nearly 30% of all income in the USA.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:50
CJS1__A (Gianni_D: Is this a coincidence?) ID#329157:
Holiday reading for the last few weeks... as I read Kitco this
evening, I have Frederick Forsyth The Day of the Jackal
open at page 402. A bit earlier, referring to August 19th
in fact on p.341:

But he had no proof; only an odd faith, that he could certainly
never divulge, that the man he was hunting was another...

Waiting for I don't know what, Lebel replied. But he's
waiting for something, or some appointed day...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:49
Gianni Dioro__A (Committee of 300) ID#384350:
Copyright © 1998 Gianni Dioro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
According to Coleman's Book as of 1992, PAST AND PRESENT MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE OF 300 are:
Abergavemy, Marquis of. Acheson, Dean. Adeane, Lord Michael. Agnelli, Giovanni. Alba, Duke of. Aldington, Lord. Aleman, Miguel. Allihone, Professor T. E. Alsop Family Designate. Amory, Houghton. Anderson, Charles A. Anderson, Robert 0. Andreas, Dwayne. Asquith, Lord. Astor, John Jacob and successor, Waldorf. Aurangzeb, Descendants of. Austin, Paul. Baco, Sir Ranulph BalFour, Arthur. Balogh, Lord. Bancroft, Baron Stormont. Baring. Barnato, B. Barran, Sir John. Baxendell, Sir Peter. Beatrice of Savoy, Princess. Beaverbrook, Lord. Beck, Robert. Beeley, Sir Harold. Beit, Alfred. Benn, Anthony Wedgewood. Bennet, John W. Benneton, Gilberto or alternate Carlo. Bertie, Andrew. Besant, Sir Walter. Bethal, Lord Nicholas. Bialkin, David. Biao, Keng. Bingham, William. Binny, J. F. Blunt, Wilfred. Bonacassi, Franco Orsini. Bottcher, Fritz. Bradshaw, Thornton. Brandt, Willy. Brewster, Kingman. Buchan, Alastair. Buffet, Warren. Bullitt, William C. Bulwer-Lytton, Edward. Bundy, McGeorge. Bundy, William. Bush, George. Cabot, John. Family Designate. Caccia, Baron Harold Anthony. Cadman, Sir John. Califano, Joseph. Carrington, Lord. Carter, Edward. Catlin, Donat. Catto, Lord. Cavendish, Victor C. W. Duke of Devonshire. Chamberlain, Houston Stewart. Chang, V. F. Chechirin, Georgi or Family Designate. Churchill, Winston. Cicireni, V. or Family Designate. Cini, Count Vittorio. Clark, Howard. Cleveland, Amory. Cleveland, Harland. Clifford, Clark. Cobold, Lord. Coffin, the Rev William Sloane. Constanti, House of Orange. Cooper, John. Family Designate. Coudenhove-Kalergi, Count. Cowdray, Lord. Cox, Sir Percy. Cromer, Lord Evelyn Baring. Crowther, Sir Eric. Cumming, Sir Mansfield. Curtis, Lionel. d'Arcy, William K. D'Avignon, Count Etienne. Danner, Jean Duroc. Davis, John W. de Benneditti, Carlo. De Bruyne, Dirk. De Gunzberg, Baron Alain. De Lamater, Major General Walter. De Menil, Jean. De Vries, Rimmer. de Zulueta, Sir Philip. de'Aremberg, Marquis Charles Louis. Delano. Family Designate. Dent, R. Deterding, Sir Henri. di Spadaforas, Count Guitierez, ( House Douglas-Home, Sir Alec. Drake, Sir Eric. Duchene, Francois. DuPont. Edward, Duke of Kent. Eisenberg, Shaul. Elliott, Nicholas. Elliott, William Yandel. Elsworthy, Lord. Farmer, Victor. Forbes, John M. Foscaro, Pierre. France, Sir Arnold. Fraser, Sir Hugh. Frederik IX, King of Denmark Family Designate. Freres, Lazard. Frescobaldi, Lamberto. Fribourg, Michael. Gabor, Dennis. Gallatin, Albert. Family Designate. Gardner, Richard. Geddes, Sir Auckland. Geddes, Sir Reay. George, Lloyd. Giffen, James. Gilmer, John D. Giustiniani, Justin. Gladstone, Lord. Gloucestor, The Duke of. Gordon, Walter Lockhart. Grace, Peter J. Greenhill, Lord Dennis Arthur. Greenhill, Sir Dennis. Grey, Sir Edward. Gyllenhammar, Pierres. Haakon, King of Norway. Haig, Sir Douglas. Hailsham, Lord. Haldane, Richard Burdone. Halifax, Lord. Hall, Sir Peter Vickers. Hambro, Sir Jocelyn. Hamilton, Cyril. Harriman, Averill. Hart, Sir Robert. Hartman, Arthur H. Healey, Dennis. Helsby, Lord. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Her Majesty Queen Juliana. Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix. Her Royal Highness Queen Margreta. Heseltine, Sir William. Hesse, Grand Duke descendants, Family Designate. Hoffman, Paul G. Holland, William. House of Braganza. House of Hohenzollern. House, Colonel Mandel. Howe, Sir Geoffrey. Hughes, Thomas H. Hugo, Thieman. Hutchins, Robert M. Huxley, Aldous. Inchcape, Lord. Jamieson, Ken. Japhet, Ernst Israel. Jay, John. Family Designate. Keynes, John Maynard. Jodry, J. J. Joseph, Sir Keith. Katz, Milton. Kaufman, Asher. Keith, Sir Kenneth. Keswick, Sir William Johnston, or Keswick, H.N.L. Keswick, William Johnston. Kimberly, Lord. King, Dr. Alexander. Kirk, Grayson L. Kissinger, Henry. Kitchener, Lord Horatio. Kohnstamm, Max. Korsch, Karl. Lambert, Baron Pierre. Lawrence, G. Lazar. Lehrman, Lewis. Lever, Sir Harold. Lewin, Dr. Kurt. Lippmann, Walter. Livingstone, Robert R. Family Designate. Lockhart, Bruce. Lockhart, Gordon. Linowitz, S. Loudon, Sir John. Luzzatto, Pieipaolo. Mackay, Lord, of Clasfern. Mackay-Tallack, Sir Hugh. Mackinder, Halford. MacMillan, Harold. Matheson, Jardine. Mazzini, Gueseppi. McClaughlin, W. E. McCloy, John J. McFadyean, Sir Andrew. McGhee, George. McMillan, Harold. Mellon, Andrew. Mellon, William Larimer or Family Designate. Meyer, Frank. Michener, Roland. Mikovan, Anastas. Milner, Lord Alfred. Mitterand, Francois. Monett, Jean. Montague, Samuel. Montefiore, Lord Sebag or Bishop Hugh. Morgan, John P. Mott, Stewart. Mountain, Sir Brian Edward. Mountain, Sir Dennis. Mountbatten, Lord Louis. Munthe, A., or family designate. Naisbitt, John. Neeman, Yuval. Newbigging, David. Nicols, Lord Nicholas of Bethal. Norman, Montague. O'Brien of Lotherby, Lord. Ogilvie, Angus. Okita, Saburo. Oldfield, Sir Morris. Oppenheimer, Sir Earnest, and successor, Harry. Ormsby Gore, David ( Lord Harlech ) . Orsini, Franco Bonacassi. Ortolani. Umberto. Ostiguy, J.P.W. Paley, William S. Pallavacini. Palme, Olaf. Palmerston. Palmstierna, Jacob. Pao, Y.K. Pease, Richard T. Peccei, Aurellio. Peek, Sir Edmund. Pellegreno, Michael, Cardinal. Perkins, Nelson. Pestel, Eduard. Peterson, Rudolph. Petterson, Peter G. Petty, John R. Philip, Prince, Duke of Edinburgh. Piercy, George. Pinchott, Gifford. Pratt, Charles. Price Waterhouse, Designate. Radziwall. Ranier, Prince. Raskob, John Jacob. Recanati. Rees, John Rawlings. Rees, John. Rennie, Sir John. Rettinger, Joseph. Rhodes, Cecil John. Rockefeller, David. Role, Lord Eric of Ipsden. Rosenthal, Morton. Rostow, Eugene. Rothmere, Lord. Rothschild Elie de or Edmon de and/or Baron RothschiLd Runcie, Dr.Robert. Russell, Lord John. Russell, Sir Bertrand. Saint Gouers, Jean. Salisbury, Marquisse de Robert Gascoiugne Cecil. Shelburne, The Salisbury, Lord. Samuel, Sir Marcus. Sandberg, M. G. Sarnoff, Robert. Schmidheiny, Stephan or alternate brothers Thomas, Alexander. Schoenberg, Andrew. Schroeder. Schultz, George. Schwartzenburg, E. Shawcross, Sir Hartley. Sheridan, Walter. Shiloach, Rubin. Silitoe, Sir Percy. Simon, William. Sloan, Alfred P. Smuts, Jan. Spelman. Sproull, Robert. Stals, Dr. C. Stamp, Lord Family designate. Steel, David. Stiger, George. Strathmore, Lord. Strong, Sir Kenneth. Strong, Maurice. Sutherland. Swathling, Lord. Swire, J. K. Tasse, G. Or Family Designate. Temple, Sir R. Thompson, William Boyce. Thompson, Lord. Thyssen-Bornamisza, Baron Hans Henrich. Trevelyn, Lord Humphrey. Turner, Sir Mark. Turner, Ted. Tyron, Lord. Urquidi, Victor. Van Den Broek, H. Vanderbilt. Vance, Cyrus. Verity, William C. Vesty, Lord Amuel. Vickers, Sir Geoffrey. Villiers, Gerald Hyde family alternate. Volpi, Count. von Finck, Baron August. von Hapsburg, Archduke Otto, House of Hapsburg-Lorraine. Von Thurn and Taxis, Max. Wallenberg, Peter or Family Designate. Wang, Kwan Cheng, Dr. Warburg, S. C. Ward Jackson, Lady Barbara. Warner, Rawleigh. Warnke, Paul. Warren, Earl. Watson, Thomas. Webb, Sydney. Weill, David. Weill, Dr. Andrew. Weinberger, Sir Caspar. Weizman, Chaim. Wells, H. G. Wheetman, Pearson ( Lord Cowdray ) . White, Sir Dick Goldsmith. Whitney, Straight. Wiseman, Sir William. Wittelsbach. Wolfson, Sir Isaac. Wood, Charles. Young, Owen.
You'll note these people pay very little personal taxes and many have interests in natural resources.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:49
RETIRED SOLDIER (Gold Dancer, Gianni) ID#347235:
Both of you have been reading too many novels and watching too much TV, your heads need to be removed from your behinds if you really believe what you have written.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:46
Gold Dancer (Oro_A) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
They=The GI generation.

THe Kennedy murder happen during a time
of great stress for the in power GI's. They hated the hippies and
all new thought. They feared ANYTHING new. It scared them. Kennedy
scared them. They could not control him. And with that generation,
what they could not understand or control they killed. Period.
It didn't matter whether it was a communist or a Kennedy. They
were all the enemy to the GI generation.
The GI generation did many good things but they were blind and
violent. And their minds were closed with fear.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:45
Shek (IRS) ID#287279:
Please somebody tell me that I am reading ths IRS article wrong and that it should not perk my, interest.
HOW is the US government gonna survive in 2000, unless we have a flat tax
enacted later on this year. 1999 maybe too late.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:44
Gold Dancer (Oro_A) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
They=The GI generation.

THe Kennedy murder happen during a time
of great stress for the in power GI's. They hated the hippies and
all new thought. They feared ANYTHING new. It scared them. Kennedy
scared them. They could not control him. And with that generation,
what they could not understand or control they killed. Period.
It didn't matter whether it was a communist or a Kennedy. They
were all the enemy to the GI generation.

The GI generation did many good things but they were blind and
violent. And their minds were closed with fear.

And here is Alan Greenspam still hanging around, still controling
things, the last of the GI's. They are still in power. They just
can't let go.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:44
Shek (IRS) ID#287279:
Please somebody tell me that I am reading ths IRS article wrong and that it should not perk my, interest.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:36
SEQUIN (@ SHEK) ID#25171:
Interesting information which might explain the action in PM today.
However I doubt a swap in GOLD could enable the RUSSIAN to sell GOLD spot at 285 and buy it back at 300. That would be like lending money at a rate around 5% to RUSSIA when the MINFIN3 which is a bond maturing in april is worth 40 cents on the dollars ( if the RUSSIAN pay in april you get 2.5 times your money back ! ) Compute the rate for homework it is a good distress investment opportunity.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:36
Shek (URL) ID#287279:

IRS article URL

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:34
JTF (Solar Flares , electromagnetic activity and earthquakes) ID#57232:
chas: Notice anything in your E-mail? Please let me know if it got lost in the Aether.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:31
Shek (Bye, bye IRS!!?!?!) ID#287279:
Copyright © 1998 Shek/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Is this amazing? And this doesn't make national headlines?

Wednesday August 19 6:23 AM EDT
Wringing Of Hands Over IRS, Y2K - ( SALT LAKE CITY ) -- State lawmakers say the computer bug associated with the year 2000 could wreak havoc on Utah's schools and on the state budget. ***The Internal Revenue Service recently reported to congress that its computers won't be ready to handle tax returns in the year 2000.*** Utah's tax system is directly tied to the federal returns. Lawmakers say if the feds can't put together it's income taxes... neither can Utah. They say schools could suffer the most... because they depend on one-BILLION dollars of the State's budget. The question of what to do came up yesterday in interim committee meetings.
Won't be able to process tax returns in 2000?!?!?!?
Consider the implications!!!!
This should be THE NEWS!!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:30
Gianni Dioro__A (Mooney, JFK & DeGaulle) ID#384350:
Copyright © 1998 Gianni Dioro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From Dr. John Coleman's book, The Committee of 300

The James Bond series has the Assassination Bureau, the Matarese Circle and so on. They were make-believe movies, designed to hide the truth that such organizations do exist and on a far greater scale than even Hollywood's fertile idea-men could dream up. Yet the Assassination Bureau is absolutely real. It exists in Europe and the United States solely to do the bidding of the Committee of 300 to carry out high-level assassinations where all other remedies have failed. It was PERMINDEX which ran the Kennedy assassination under the direction of Sir William Stephenson, for years the Queen of England's number one pest control operative. Clay Shaw, a contract agent of the CIA, ran PERMINDEX out of the Trade Mart Center in New Orleans. Former New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison came very close to cracking the Kennedy assassination plot up to the level of Clay Shaw until Garrison was dealt with and Shaw was found not quilty of involvement in the Kennedy assassination plot. The fact that Shaw was eliminated in the manner of Jack Ruby, another CIA contract agent -- both died of induced quick-acting cancer -- speaks volumes that Garrison was on the right track. A second assassination bureau is located in Switzerland and was until recently run by a shadowy figure of whom no photographs existed after 1941. The operations were and probably still are financed by the Oltramaire family -- Swiss Black Nobility, owners of the Lombard Odier Bank of Geneva, a Committee of 300 operation. The primary contact man was Jacques Soustelle -- this according to U.S. Army-G2 intelligence files. This group was also closely allied with Allen Dulles and Jean de Menil, an important member of the Committee of 300 and a very prominent name in the oil industry in Texas. ArmyG2 records show that the group was heavily involved in the arms trade in the Middle East, but more than that, the assassination bureau made no less than 30 attempts to assassinate General de Gaulle, in which Jacques Soustelle was directly involved. The same Soustelle was the contact man for the Sendero Luminosa-Shining Pathway guerilla group protecting the Committee's Peruvian cocaine producers. When all of the best that the assassination bureau could do had failed, thanks to the excellent work done by DGSE ( French intelligence-formerly SDECE ) the job was assigned to MI6 -- Military Intelligence Department Six, and also known as Secret Intelligence Service ( SIS ) , under the code name Jackal. SDECE employed clever young graduates and was not infiltrated by MI6 or the KGB to any measurable extent. Its record in tracking down foreign agents made it the envy of the secret services of every nation, and it was this group that followed Jackal to his final destination and then killed him before he could fire on General de Gaulle's motorcade. It was the SDECE who uncovered a Soviet mole in the cabinet of De Gaulle, who also happened to be a liaison man with the CIA in Langley. In order to discredit the SDECE, Allen Dulles, who hated De Gaulle, ( the feeling was mutual ) had one of its agents, Roger De Louette, caught with $12 million worth of heroin in his possession. After a great deal of expert interrogation, De Louette confessed but was unable to say why he was smuggling drugs into the United States. The whole thing stank to high heaven of a set-up. Based upon an examination of SDECE methods in protecting De Gaulle, especially in motorcades, the FBI, Secret Service and the CIA knew exactly how to strip President Kennedy of his security and make it easy for the three PERMINDEX shooters to murder him in Dealey Plaza in November 1963.

The book THE DAY OF THE JACKAL, from which a highly successful movie was created. The events related in the book are factual. Although for obvious reasons the names of some of the players and the locales were changed, but the thrust of the story, that a single MI6 operative was assigned to get rid of General Charles De Gaulle, is absolutely correct. General De Gaulle had become unmanageable, refusing to cooperate with the Committee -- whose existence he knew very well since he had been invited to join it--came to a climax when De Gaulle withdrew France from NATO and immediately began building his own nuclear force--the so-called force de frappe. This so angered the Committee that De Gaulle's assassination was ordered. But the French secret intelligence service was able to intercept Jackal's plans and keep De Gaulle safe. In the light of the record of MI6, which I might add is the Committee of 300's main resource when it comes to intelligence, the work done by French intelligence borders on the miraculous. Military Intelligence Department Six dates back to Sir Francis Walsingham, paymaster of Queen Elizabeth I for dirty tricks operations. Over hundreds of years, MI6 has established a record which no other intelligence agency can come near to duplicating. MI6 agents have gathered information from the four corners of the earth and have carried out secret operations that would astound even the most knowledgeable if ever they were to be made public, which is why it rates as the Master service of the Committee of 300. Officially, MI6 does not exist, its budget comes out of the Queen's purse and private funds, and is reported to be in a range of $350-$500 million per annum, but no one knows for sure what the exact amount is. In its present form MI6 dates back to 1911, when it was under the leadership of Sir Mansfield Cumming, a captain in the Royal Navy, who was always identified by the letter C, from which M of James Bond fame is taken. No official record of MI6's failures and successes exist -- it is that secret, although the Burgess-Maclean-Blake-Blunt disasters did great damage to the morale of MI6 officers. Unlike other services, future members are recruited from universities and other areas of learning by highly skilled talent scouts as we saw in the case of Rhodes Scholars inducted into the Round Table. One of the requirements is an ability to speak foreign languages. Candidates undergo a rigorous blooding.
Dr John Coleman is a former intelligence officer. Members of the Committee of 300 are said to include Buffett, Soros, Von Finck, Bronfman, Oppenheimer, the Queen & most European nobility, Clinton, the Bushes. I found this info at this link which no longer has the info
The book is fairly widely sold by the conspiracy/hard to get booksellers.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:30
Goldteck (SEQUIN) ID#431200:
In 1958, De Gaulle said to the french pieds noirs Je vous ai compris ( I understood you ) if my memory is right.After most of them have to leave Algeria.I never understood the meaning of these words.Was he sincere or was it a ruse from him to appease them?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:29
JTF (WJC is playing with fire) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Guess who gave him the tie he wore that night of his famous speech, according to Matt Drudge. You won't believe it.
My take from todays editorials is that he is losing many of his loyal supporters in the news media. One female journalist on the Rush Limbaugh show today made a good point. She said that many women in particular supported WJC because of his and Hillary's interest in 'the children'. How does one explain to 'the children' that their loyal supporter, the president, had multiple affairs while he had the affair with Monica L, who is young enough to be his daughter. And -- there is the sordid nature of these affairs -- all of his sexual liasons are 'trailer trash' for some reason -- if they speak up.
I was amazed to learn that many women no longer support Hillary. Thought was the men only. By the way, the reason Hillary tolerates all of his sexual exploits is that she married for power, not for a husband. But -- just think of what might happen if he loses all that power, or is no longer a stepping stone for her career.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:25
Shek (Russia) ID#287279:
Copyright © 1998 Shek/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Is Russia being taken care of?

LONDON, Aug 19 ( Reuters ) - Russia's pledge to use gold and other
precious metals to support the rouble could involve swaps or loans
rather than sales, which could backfire if gold prices fall, analysts
and dealers said on Wednesday.
Tony Warwick-Ching, metals analyst at Flemings Global Mining Group, said
there were several options available to the Russians.
``One is that the Russian central bank uses its stocks of gold, silver
and platinum group metals as collateral for fresh lines of credit from
western banks,'' he said in a report.
``The second is that it uses some of its gold reserves -- around 520
tonnes plus whatever is left with the finance ministry -- for swaps,
i.e. a simultaneous spot sale and forward purchase.
``The third is that it makes outright sales of its precious metals,'' he

Were Russia to opt for a gold swap, a move several analysts said was
conceivable given recent market rumours of a large forward transaction,
one of the approaches might be for an immediate spot sale with a forward
purchase one year from now.
``That would be the most plausible given the lease rates for the short
months,'' said one analyst.
He said Russia might get $285 per troy ounce or less for a spot sale,
with the buy-back price for a year ahead at around $300.
``Obviously we are dealing with sovereign credit and they are expecting
someone to take a reasonable degree of exposure but it's not just Russia
which is the risk, it's also the gold market,'' the analyst said.
Swapping 100 tonnes, or 3,215,100 troy ounces, would net Russia more
than $900 million at a cost which would depend on the gold price in 12
months' time.
``If you took it out at the current spot rate and it went down to $250,
we would be expecting them to buy it back in a year's time at $300,'' he


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:24
Dutchman (Up & Down) ID#215235:
POG down today but XAU up. Nearly all gold stocks rose on volume above their 30-day moving average. Russians selling gold through Zurich. Lots of upward volatility in the mining shares. Me thinks there is something afoot. Could we have finally reached the bottom and are preparing to goose the new gold bull?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:24

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:08
Oro__A (Who are they?) ID#185410:
Are they the brokerages and institutional money managers?

Are they currency traders ( remember Drexel's default on gold lease contracts? ) ?

Are they the US fed and the treasury?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:07
Gold Dancer (Gianni/Kennedy) ID#377196:
Exactly as I see it. Why has this NEVER been mentioned as the
reason by any of the conspiracy theorists? At least not that I can
remember. Can you?

No wonder they let Oliver Stone get away with his movie. It was
all bullshit anyway.

Thanks, GD

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:03
chas (AragornIII re Another) ID#147201:
Did you get a clear answer from Another? What I read was somewhat jumbled. TIA,Charlie

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:03
SEQUIN (@ Gianni Dioro and Gold dancer) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
First to answer in short to Gold Dancer , I don't think the bankesr and the NWO will win eventually. Empire rise and fall ( ref CHINA, EGYPT, BABYLON, GREECE, ROMAN, INCA ... )
The NWO promoters and their bankers will suffer the same fate as if they attract to much power for purposes against humankind wellbeing , they will get crushed.
Gianni Dioro , you always seem very knowledgeable about FRANCE. However , I think I noticed a few month ago in a discussion that you appreciate ( self proclaimed GENERAL ) COLONEL DE GAULLE beyond his merits.
Let 's not forget that at a time when surrender was not the option , he surrendured at DOUAUMONT during WWI
Then he turned against his protector Marechal petain because PETAIN as was usually the case had him do research for one of his books and took credit.
He arranged for rightist faction of the resistance to get tortured and anihilated by the SS as he saw the french right ( which by the way was first to fight the german as the communists waited until 1941 when HITLER turned against the USSR ) an obstacle to him getting the power.
He took power with a virtual coup in 1958 and betrayed his oath to the Algerian people , french pieds noirs and the army. He had so many people killed by the SAC or by the police ( in france rue de SULLY or in algeria ) that he divided the country for ever . He polarized the french against the so called collaboration ( which was done by few but a cover by most to help the resistance ) so that france is always crying wolf against the right and france was never able to have anything else than social democracy as a political system.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:01
THE GOLDEN PROPHET (Gollum) ID#372262:
What's even more strange is how the YEN could rally a full cent against the greenback and still manage to send gold lower. Who knows what evil lurks?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:01
Gold Dancer (Gianni) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
No hope for a peaceful conclusion-UNLESS the people educate
themselves and act for themselves by buying gold and silver as coins.

In the end the people determine what money is. But the problem as
I see it is that the government has bought the loyalty of the people
by offering IRA's, 401K's, Social Security, etc. Until these financial
assets are rendered to their real value things will go on as usual.

It sure is going to get interesting. Gold should benefit at some
point. I think we are close. GO GOLD.

Thanks, GD

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:01
Leland (The CRB Page Has Some Answers For Gold's Strange Performance Today) ID#31876:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 16:00
Gianni Dioro__A (GoldDancer, JFK) ID#384350:
Copyright © 1998 Gianni Dioro__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think more than any other event, JFK's issuing of Treasury notes redeemable for Silver as opposed to Federal Reserve notes printed by a private bank at virtually no cost and then loaned to the Govt at interest led to his being assassinated.

Think about it. The Treasury notes were true to Constitutional money. They did not enslave the USG nor its constituents into usury.

The Cuban angle is a load of rubbish. There appears to be a lot of complicity involved- Guantanamo Bay, and really if the US wanted to take out Castro it would be very simple, eg a plane crash. I see Klinton & Castro taking orders from the same people. Cuba is convenient because if the bankers want to indebt the USG some more they just bring Cuba off the back burner and scare the Americans into more deficit spending on War. With the collapse of the USSR, Cuba is no longer a tool. BTW, It's a great holiday destination. You Canucks ought to check it out. I feel sorry for the Cubans in that they are exploited and oppressed. They are nice people.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:55
Gollum (@Oro__A ) ID#43349:
This same thing comes up everytime the POG moves a bunch one way or the other. For many months now, the gold stocks have lagged the POG. If gold jumps up, the stocks just sit there and then eventually they move up. If the POG slumps the stocks just habg there and then eventually they go down. Anyone wanting to use the POG as an indicator could make a buck or two by trading a nice volatile gold stock.

What is more mysterious is how the POG dropped today, but the price of silver just hung there. Hmmmmnnnnn.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:54
THE GOLDEN PROPHET (Realistic) ID#372262:
DOW down today. Looks like you owe the old cheezebrain an apology! Got to agree with the old chedderface--looking more and more like a head and shoulders top to me too! Sorry for all you sorry sapsuckers who tried to board the DOW express yesterday! Looks like you're about to be thrown overboard! Also looks like the bears are back in the saddle again. Maybe if you're nice to them they'll leave your sorry gold stocks alone this time down! Then again, maybe not! Grr...Gold! .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:50
Grizz (Gold lining in Klinton's behavior) ID#424394:
The military will despise him even more.
Because most male officers would be punished
for the same relationship with an enlisted woman.
They would be PCS'ed to punishment assignments at the LEAST!
Actually both parties - male & female - would get this treatment.
At worst, if the case became high profile -
they would be asked to resign or be court-martialed.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:46
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:
Oil service stocks doing much better than gold today. OSX ( oil service index ) up 6%, XAU up 2%.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:46
Gold Dancer (Gianni) ID#377196:
It that why Kennedy was killed? I understand that he was
trying to do an end run around the Federal Reserve by making them a
part of the government. I never believed the Cuban connection but
when I learned that, I understood why. True?

If so, there is no hope for a peaceful conclusion.

Thanks, GD

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:44
Leland (ANOTHER'S Comments Today at USAGold. ) ID#31876:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:40
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:
Much better XAU up and POG down than XAU down POG up

For sure

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:37
mapleman (@ Gianni) ID#333264:

Hey bud I couldn't agree with you more.It is comforting to know their are others who have it figuered out.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:29
mapleman (POG is on the BOTTOM) ID#333264:

Powers that be want to make it look like gold is a go no where investment, and they have, but they will not be permitted to start wiping out mid sized gold producers. I still say 280 is bottom and gold companies no this. The reason they can take it in stride is they know what they are sitting on. Thats right, A GOLD MINE. I do think that it will take a major drop befor mom and dad figuer it out. Major being getting the Dow back around the 5-6000 level.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:26
rhody (@ Gianni Dioro: The trouble is, they delay the inevitable, and) ID#413307:
make the eventual explosion in gold/implosion in USD and DOW more
violent. But they give their friends more time to accumulate
gold equities cheap, and distribute DOW equities to Joe 6 pack at
artificial highs.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:26
3-cubed (@SHAREFIN) ID#344239:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:25
Gold Dancer (Gianni Dioro / Sequin) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So are you saying that the bankers will win this also? And
we will do nothing. We will accept their rule as always? It does
look this way for a while.

But it also looks like there will be 3 trading regions with 3
currencies. This will make things simpler. Good for business.
Which is what it is all about anyway. In the end good. For a while.

Or is this the end? Will they lose control and the world sink into
depression? I don't think the world will stand for that. But
that may not matter. Never has before.

We will know soon enough.

What happens to gold if the bankers keep going as they are?

Thanks, GD

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:24
Mooney* (@Gianni) ID#350194:
I'd love to hear and read more about your De Gaulle assasination attempts scenario. Can you post pertinent URL's?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:21
jonesy (In Plain English . . .) ID#251166:
Taking the Words Right Out of His Mouth

By Gene Weingarten

Washington Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, August 19, 1998; Page D01

In our continuing efforts to heed Vice

President Gore's call for a return to plain

English in official communications, we

today present a Special Report on the

president's statement to the nation. In short,

we shall now parse the statement. We

were going to ask Gore to help us, but we

understand he is in Australia or

Madagascar, having failed to secure

last-minute passage on an unmanned

probe to Mars.

President's version: I must take complete

responsibility for all my actions, both public

and private. And that is why I am speaking

to you tonight.

Plain English version: I am reliably

informed that prison cells contain spiders. I

do not like spiders. And that is why I am

speaking to you tonight.

President's version: In a deposition in January, I was asked

questions about my relationship with Monica Lewinsky. While

my answers were legally accurate, I did not volunteer


Plain English version: When I denied having been alone with

Ms. Lewinsky, for example, I was technically telling the truth.

How can one be alone in any sense when one is with another

human being, especially if the two of you are engaged in an

intimate sex act? Of course I was not alone with Miss

Lewinsky! I was together with Miss Lewinsky. I failed to

volunteer this distinction.

President's version: Indeed, I did have a relationship with Miss

Lewinsky that was not appropriate.

Plain English version: Check my moves here. Notice how at

the start of this critical sentence, I use the word indeed, which

sounds extremely scholarly, sort of like it is being uttered by

William F. Buckley Jr. during a discussion of our policy of

disengagement with Albania. This word makes anything sound

dignified – and too boring to pay attention to. Indeed, the

interaction of subtexts in this work, as revealed by the clear

bifurcation of themes, indicates a bipolar profligacy. Indeed,

as de Tocqueville observed, the probity of the American polity

will brook no animus not inherent in the commonweal.

Indeed, I bagged the chick. Zzzzz.

President's version: In fact, it was wrong.

Plain English version: This is an important distinction, not

appropriate vs. wrong. For example, brown shoes with black

pants are not appropriate. My error was more grievous,

along the lines of brown shoes and no pants.

President's version: . . . at no time did I ask anyone to lie, to

hide or destroy evidence or to take any other unlawful action.

Plain English version: I did consider asking Hillary to say that

she used to borrow dresses from Monica all the time. But that

might have resulted in my death via rolling pin.

President's version: I misled people, including even my wife. I

deeply regret that.

Plain English version: I got caught before Vernon could put a

lid on this. I deeply regret that.

President's version: It's nobody's business but ours. Even

presidents have private lives.

Plain English version: Bite me.

© Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:20
Gianni Dioro__A (rhody-PPT and Gold Manipulation) ID#384350:
That's the way I see it. They do not want people to think of Gold as an alternative to crashing stocks & currencies. So whenever the dow is poised to drop, Gold is forced lower.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:18
RETIRED SOLDIER (Sharefin) ID#347235:
I am truely sorry you feel you have to sell, the price is far more than I could get together, best of luck to you.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:17
Oro__A (Why the divergence between POG and XAU?) ID#185410:
Is this another misguided sale by the Russians?

Technicals look like a spike drop type capitulation is on the way for gold, but the XAU looks remarkably strong. Anybody have thoughts on the matter?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:12
rhody (POG divergence: Gold stocks up, and POG down: could it be) ID#413307:
the PPT? Could they be shorting gold, trying to stop the rotation?

One theory is as good as ANOTHER.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:12
robnoel__A (OK fess up which one of did this.....) ID#410198:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:12
Gollum (@rhody) ID#35571:

Oh yes. Well, the market's closed for now. At least there's only about four weeks to go, as I told Aragon III.

I've got to go check on the DOW now.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:08
kitkat (Gold Stocks) ID#208393:
Heads up! Are you watching them?
The Canadian gold stocks that I monitor on a regular basis have taken on an astounding turn up today on low volume. Maybe that's where some of that Microsoft money is going. Does Bill G. read kitco?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:06
Gianni Dioro__A (Dow starting to Fall) ID#384350:
Looks like the beginning of another leg down. Could also mean why PM's are down, because the Dow could be looking ugly. Where's Puetz?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:04
sharefin (Retired Soldier) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I'm putting it to auction.
With the hope in mind of attracting half a dozen nice ladies,
With well heeled husbands who enjoy their company.

To have them here with a sparkle in their eye
And a dream in their heart.
So they fail no compunction
In their intent to buy.

Their eyes will be a flutter,
The bosom heaving unabashed.
As they watch their manfolk bidding higher,
In the quest of living in such finese.

We will see.....

I am hoping to achieve a sum of 1100 ounces or better,
Of my precious in value or weight.
Fair value I say.

And the deed shall be recorded.
And a day shall be had by all.
And the fine cups raised in salute.
Of the fine times had, before the hammers fall.

From the pitter patter of small feet.
Running through the halls.
To the flying fox where fun was had.
As the youngster plunged into the pool.

This house - which was my home,
Shall always be remembered dear.
As we stroll the beach called life.
And live and drink in cheer.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:03
Gianni Dioro__A (SEQUIN, France & the NWO) ID#384350:
You have that right. Your King Louis XVI was murdered in the same way as King Charles II of England. Betrayed, told to flee, caught, brought back, and assassinated by the Bankers who had their new puppet ruler put into place. Loan guarantees to nations involve regicide. Seldom do things happen by accident where usury is involved.

Chirac & Jospin have sold France out to the NWO, and Chirac is a disgrace to the Gaullist party. DeGaulle understood the NWO and didn't want any part in it, withdrawing from NATO, building a strong military, and demanding Gold for its dollars. DeGaulle had a complete mistrust for the Anglo-American alliance as he understood their sinister world domination. That is why British intelligence attempted at least 30 assassination attempts on the General.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 15:03
Squirrel (I must try to unload some Silver & Gold) ID#280214:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Before the POS & POG sink further - before my margin goes negative.
Selling these coins to walk-in trade is far more profitable
than waiting for the POG & POS to go up a few points.
{at least for one who doesn't trade hundreds of ounces}
Maybe I can make 10% or so in a few months turnaround time.

There is a lot of resistance to $39.95 for 1/10 Gold MLs.
The Silver Eagles are doing okay. Any coin for this market
must be below US$20 - to sell to the impulse buyer.
Thus I think the Gold 10-grain would do okay too.

We've got to get more small Gold coins into the sheople's pockets.
And more Silver coin too.
So they have something to trade with when things fall apart.
And since I may a few bucks in the process - GREAT!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:58
Freasyberry__A (BIS Owner) ID#331387:
As a BIS owner for 6 years, I do not see any past actions from BIS
that would indicate a willingness to intervene in the Au market. Any
reference to prove your theory would be appreciated. Also, I receive
BIS's monthly balance sheet and do not detect any material change in Au
holdings- obviously easily disguised by derivatives. I would love for
BIS to add to their Au holdings. A Great investment - BIS.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:55
Mooney* (Double Bottom - and Holding.) ID#350194:
Copyright © 1998 Mooney*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Action in Gold and Silver lately has been anything but encouraging. The only good news is that Gold is holding above its recent bottom and IF this continues a nice double bottom will form on long term charts. IF it doesn't hold this support area I expect further deterioration with the only good scenario being a 'Spike' bottom. In this instance we would have to think in terms of rhody's graphic and say that a fisherman drops a lead anchor into the lake and then immediately changes his mind and hauls it back up again. Sorry to hear ( via Sharefin's observation ) that the USA DOD is tracking all of us here. If we are really the new enemies of capitalism God help the World! AAR - IF we are so important to the men in black I will give them a chance to wipe one of us out via their Toronto operatives by announcing that I will be seated tonight in section 302 row E seat 10 at the Molson Amphitheatre to catch some Dinosaur Rock in the presence those who have produced much Gold in the past, namely Deep Purple and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Now Selby knows for sure that I'm crazy! What the hey, they may not be artists of the calibre of our own Strad Master but I try and appreciate ALL types of people and music, and besides, Keith Emerson IS known in the music world to be one of the world's most adept keyboardists. I am presently starting off this experience by hoisting a Steinlager in tribute to our great Kiwi Friend - Aurator. And don't worry all - I'm taking the train! RJ - It ain't jazz, it's only rock and roll, but I like it! Cheers ALL.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:54
RETIRED SOLDIER (Roebear) ID#347235:
Bloomberg news is still showing 287, wonder where that comes from?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:51
rhody (@ Gollum: forget the DOW. Look at the price of gold.) ID#413307:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:49
RETIRED SOLDIER (Roebear) ID#347235:
No problem I am just a lettle testy getting ready to move to Garmisch,sell the house and all that. Getting tired dontja know.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:49
Gollum (I'm back) ID#35571:
Had to be away for a while, so I haven't had a chance to do anything with the DOW levers. Any requests?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:47
Strad Master (SHAREFIN) ID#250297:
OK. I'll accept that. Best of luck skipping pebbles at the sunclad girls! ( How much do you want for the house? )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:44
sharefin (Strad) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mainly Y2k
I don't want to carry debt.
And want to retire to a quiter place closer to the sea.
Hopefully within a stones throw.

I know of a home equally as beautiful.
Down at our dream beach.
Trouble it's twice the price of ours.

Now if I was to turn my equity into physical.
And property was to fall by 50%
While gold went up 50%.

I would go skipping pebbles on the beach most days.

Such would be the life....

Away to dream of balmy beaches
And sunclad girls in blue dresses.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:43
Squirrel (Gulp! - this bear ain't goin' nowhere!) ID#280214:
So I dropped the prices on my Silver Eagles and Gold MLs
that I am selling to tourists and interested locals.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:41
themissinglink (Gold shares) ID#373403:
Where has all the volume gone?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:41
Mtn Bear (SE) (Slash; RRRRiiippp; Chomp!!) ID#347267:
That's the Mountin Bear doin what he would do to the one's responsible for all that POG manipulatin!! Methinks they are gittin desperate.
Market: Sell this rally--- Big down move acomin before mid September.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:39
Roebear (Blame it on my slow computer) ID#412172:
Till I check all the sites and get back and finish. POG = Price of Gold = 282.70 to 284. As to what the TRUE price is, been trying to figure that here for a long time. Did not mean to aggravate!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:37
SEQUIN (@ Gold Dancer) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I know this to be of little interest for this forum and maybe you as well but the FRENCH so called revolution was not ( as the manipulated history school books want you to believe ) about a people getting free from its chains but quite the contrary a people giving itself up to the then in creation new world order.
The french revolution is at the conjunction of 2 self-reinforcing tides : Free-masonry and the century of the lights.
The french revolution was mostly and secretely driven by brittish and german lodges which gave orders to their french brothers . Free masonry was really organized at the beginning of the 18 th century in England and it took them about 70 years to give their godless ideals of freedom ( in fact it was just freedom for the ones who wanted to control the fate of people and accumulate immense richess ) and libertine ethics a chance to succed in front of reactionary forces , embodied by the king who inherits his powers from god according to pre1789 french law.
This philosophy found an echo in the works of JJ ROUSSEAU and VOLTAIRE or DESCARTES . Eventually 200 years later , a group calling itself VOLTAIRE was created and promotes pederasty and pedophilya which is all the revolution can claim as advance for society !
France , these days , is a spear-head of the NWO and giving itself up to Europe which is not even a clear geographic entity

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:35
sharefin (Selby) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sometimes ( :- ) ) ) )

Global indices
US Indices

So many of these charts are at critical points.
Failure here would not be good.
They need to rally or be doomed.
And such lockstep.
Everything is lining up for the big one.

The herd will turn and bolt
Straight over the hill.
They are already spooked - skiterish.
We will all watch them run.


Beware and bewarned.
Never before has so much risk been at stake.
And so few prepared.
None of it has yet been priced in.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:35
rhody (Interesting calculation on the POG/BIS connection. If you add) ID#413307:
the American inflation rate ( 1.5%? ) to ANOTHER'S base price of 280
for BIS intervention, you get about 283.3 as the present day intervention
price for the BIS.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:34
RETIRED SOLDIER (Strad) ID#347235:
Welcome back!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:32
Charleston Gold Bug (Gold Down, Gold Stocks Up ) ID#344389:
Gold down on an intraday price reversal today with
meaningful buying continuing in most gold stocks presents
a real interesting technical situation. I also
noticed heavy activity in NEM Sep 17.5 & 20 calls
as well. Comments appreciated :- )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:32
RETIRED SOLDIER (roebear) ID#347235:
I knew that I was asking WHAT THE HE-- the true price is!!!!!!!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:30
jims (Great call Mr. Disney) ID#252391:
Yes I notice the bounce in SGOLY and HGMCY. Is this stock market money starting to seek a new safer home. Great call earlier on your recommendation to buy HGMCY sand SGOLY. One could have bought Harmony unchanged at the opening.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:30
Strad Master (SHAREFIN) ID#250297:
Why would you want to sell that gorgeous house?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:30

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:26
Roebear (Retired Soldier) ID#412172:
POG= Price Of Gold.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:24
Selby (sharefin) ID#286230:
Looks to me like you have been having it tough. My heart goes out to ya.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:23
rhody (@ RETIRED SOLDIER (pog): gold has now dropped down below 283) ID#413307:
to 282.80. Kitco graph of POG has now added an offshore bar to
the profile view of the Scarborough Bluffs. Gold is off 3.70 from
the day's high.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:17
sharefin (My new web page/site) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This page has not been up one day yet.

Of 174 hits so far - 139 being Unique

For Operating Systems:
156 on Win95
9 on Macs
5 on NT
3 on Win98
1 on Win3.1

And for browsers
86 on MS IE 3
55 on MS IE 4
17 on Netscape 3
15 on Netscape 4
1 on MS IE 2

Domain hits
91 on .au - Australia
36 on .net - Networks
21 on .com - Commercial
19 on .? - Unknown
2 on .ca - Canada
2 on .mx - Mexico
2 on .uk - United Kingdom
1 on .mil - US Dept of Defence

Amazed to see that the US DoD hit me within the first few hours of putting the web site up.

Soon to be added to with many of the charts I post.
When I find the spare time.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:16
rhody (jonesy: The BIS established a HONG KONG branch this year. HMMMMM..) ID#413307:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:13
Bloomberg News Service says POG is 287-283 is at the top of this page

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:13
sharefin (Interesting ratio chart) ID#284255:
Dec99 gold / Dec98 gold

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:12
Selby (Clinton Tied Up) ID#286230:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:11
Silverbaron (Sharefin) ID#289357:
Thank you, kind sir. I've been meaning to ask you this question for the longest time. Thanx again.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:09
Strad Master (RETIRED SOLDIER) ID#250297:
Hey Pal! Thanks for the posted message. I tried to e-mail you at your work address but it came back. Perhaps it is wrong? Let me know before you go to Garmish. Thanks. Go Gold!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:09
jonesy (@ rhody -- from today's Asia Precious Metals Review) ID#251166:
Dealers in Hong Kong said an unknown source has been buying spot gold

at about $282-283 since Aug 13, supporting the price from falling below the

level against aggressive selling by bears continuing in the US market.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:07
rhody (POG: It looks like we may test one of ANOTHER's more famous) ID#413307:
predictions: The BIS will buy all gold under $280.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:05
Gold Dancer (Vronsky/Hein) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for the notice of an update on Dr. Heins section on the
golden-eagle Web site. All the posters on this site should read his
latest words. They are important and scary to say the least!!!

What will be the outcome of this terrible situation which has
enveloped the world. Will it be totalitarienism or will the people
revolt like during the French Revolution. Or will we, like sheep,
go into the quiet goodnight of total rule by others?

Or is something afoot by the Central Bankers? Is Greenspam going
to institute a gold backed currency before he leaves next year?

Will the US banking system manage to hold onto its gains agains the rest of the world and manage to take over most of the foreign banks?
Will this keep the game of fiat currencies going for a while longer?

I do not know the answeres to these questions. Is the removal of
Clinton the behind the scenes mustering of those who would save this
great Nation from Foreign control. Is this the beginning of getting
America back from the bankers?

I can only watch and hope. And try to understand the issues so I
can vote for the right people if there ever will be such a choice

Thanks, GD

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:04
sharefin (Silverbaron) ID#284255:
To get a ratio chart.
Type in the first code, then leave a space before the forward slash,then enter the second code.
$indu /gcz8
xau.x /gcz8
gcz8 /siz8
hm /gcz8

It works on any indices - stocks etc.
And shows better over longer time frame.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 14:02
SEQUIN (@ HopeFull) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Ironically did you know that Richard Dennis is a pure technical player. He was wiped out in 1994 and took a 2 years vacation . He is good enough I guess to come up with good trend reversal indicators.
However, you should read Silverbaron's post at 6.41 this morning. he was kind enough to reproduce the latest Global Intelligence Report . I am always puzzled by the finesse and accuracy of their analysis. T hey predict doom and gloom for JAPAN . Interestingly enough , the USD/ YEN reached a week low this morning around 143.60 which is rather pointing to YEN strength after the lofty levels that we saw recently.
I agree that my analysis was based on the fact that I don't think that the situation will get better for the emerging market / SE ASIAN complex and I could be wrong . Don't forget on the other hand that the crisis started in may last year in thailand and since then we saw the markets go through phases of denial/fear/minicrashes/recoveries and again and all this is polluted by the $ and US markets safe heaven status which makes matters more difficult to analyse.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:57
Selby () ID#286230:
Easy rhody: somebody drowned there last week. The lower it goes the cheaper it is to buy and the more you will make when it goes up---if you are alive -- an increasing concern as time passes.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:57
sharefin (Rhody + POG dropping) ID#284255:
The Russians are probably selling.
They have to pay their debts.

Each domino as they fall will probably have to follow suit.

At what level will the POG be held at?
When all countries have so much debt yet to pay.
And who will be left standing

The same effect was noticed when Hong Kong fell last October.
I would expect the trend to continue.
Till there are no more sellers.

A crash will effect this change very quickly.
A long drawn bear I cannot guess.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:53
HopeFull (ARCH CRAWFORD using Bradley indicator for timing of coming big Dow drop....) ID#402148:
and could he have been more wrong this week? A 350+ up in the Dow and squat in the commodites...inverse of his predictions for this week. He called for strong up week in gold, down hard in stocks.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:52
rhody (Whew! spot POG touched 283 and has now firmed back up to 283.60) ID#413307:
Kitco graph is a little like the profile of Cathedral Bluffs, part
of the Scarborough Bluffs in east end Scarborough, Toronto.

Think I'll go down there tonight and take a running leap.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:50
HopeFull (CYCLST..what say you? HB) ID#402148:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:48
Silverbaron (Sharefin) ID#289357:

A lesson, please:

How do you get ratio charts on

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:47
sharefin (Ratio topping out.) ID#284255:
Dow / GCZ8 ratio

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:44
sharefin (Ratio bottoming out.) ID#284255:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:43
HopeFull (SEQUIN..could be gold will rise for the other side of your discussion...) ID#402148:
Asian market stablize, China holds tight on currency, China and Japan do major fiscal stimulus while USD dumping bonds...Greenspan eats the bonds to avoid global recession ( has to print $ to avoid USA recession ) .

Please notice my note below about Richard Dennis calling a top in USD/YEN trade and is now long YEN.

Small golds are sensing this today.........stronger YEN means dodging Depression bullet in far east.....good for metals.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:42
HighRise (New York) ID#401460:

Year 2000 Countdown has started in Times Square.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:39
robnoel__A (John Disney... Answer to both questions.. 1)more buyers than sellers 2)more sellers than buyers :-) ) ID#410198:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:37
Allen(USA) (Aragorn III) ID#246224:
Great. Thanks for your patronage! Send me an email at We'll talk. Thanks again and much. My day is complete.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:34
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Even though I am a committed gold bull over the long run as it is clear to me that
1 ) gold is the only real store of value competing with soon to be worthless fiat currencies
2 ) 27 years of pure floating exchange rates pale in the face of thousands of years of gold / silver monetary systems
3 ) Gold is being manipulated and accumulated by a coterie pursuing everlasting wealth to submit the world to their new world order vision.
4 ) No commodity ( I know gold is not a commodity ) has ever traded below production cost for a long time.
5 ) CB s are done with outright selling and REPO will make the coming rally all the more painfull for shorts.
etc ...

We have to be realistic.There is a clear correlation between emerging markets / S.E. ASIAN turmoil and the gold price. Do I think , things will get better there ? NO. So , for GOLD to go up we need a financial cataclysm of epic proportion. I don't think it is so far . For GOLD to make a technical turnaround by itself without the help of the safe haven factor , we would need a complete shift of market psychology or such a big buyer that shorts will be taken out.
I doubt that technical analysis can predict that .
Technical analysis is usefull to identify trends , length of retracement , overbought/oversold conditions within a trend , ...
I doubt it will be of much help until a new uptrend can be identified in GOLD. And nobody , can dispute the fact that we are still in a downtrend . Wether for a day or 6 months ( I hope at the most ) is difficult to say.
I don't blame anybody for trying but I would not take a financial decision on that.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:33
rhody (@ FOX-MAN: your guess is as good as mine, only I give up.) ID#413307:
The shorts must be using their own gold for a change, there has
been no bounce from one month lease rates. ( They remain @ .80% )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:33
Silverbaron (chas) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Although the dollar is overvalued quite a bit and ripe for a fall - I wouldn't bet much on that happening until nearer the introduction of the Euro. I'm still concerned in the interim about other factors, including a market meltdown, which could make gold ( and especially gold mining stocks ) go big either way.

The Asian situation is a ( maybe THE ) wild card, since they collectively own several hundred million dollars-worth of US Treasuries which they may have to dump.

I'm thinking about taking some quick courses in remote viewing to settle all this so I can be right for once - and afterwards I'll invite you all over to my private island ( ex-US territory, or course ) where we will have sound money and good times for all. ( ;^ ) )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:29
rhody (Gold Equities Prices: Now I'm beginning to understand, not only) ID#413307:
does the POG have an inverse relationship with the DOW, but
with gold equities too. Gold is the antithesis of ALL equities!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:26
FOX-MAN__A (rhody; One final manipulation lower by the shorts is my guess. I think we may see) ID#288186:
a short term bounce after this low point is registered. I'm only
thinkinf we'll see this bounce based on reading and analysis of other
posters, etc.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:26
Saw reference to you on USAGOLD this morning, consider the company you are in with on ANOTHERs synchophantic sponsor I don't know how you feel. But it is good to know they read your posts. Shalom & NAMASTE'. Jere Smith

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:26
General (to GRIZZ regarding 1159 post) ID#365216:
Copyright © 1998 General/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Russian and Japanese and Asian economies in the tank. Y2K looming
( I work for DOD and in my organization we were told Y2K is our
NUMBER 1 PRIORITY ) . Clinton administration in turmoil and looking
for any crises for a reason to regain power via executive order/
martial law. Natural and terrorist attacks in the paper everyday.
Are the doom-and-gloomers really that far off? I still say: Prepare
for the worst ( guns, gold, food/water storage, supplies, etc ) and
hope/pray for the best. Why pay for life insurance if you don't have
life assurance?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:24
John Disney__A (heh heh heh) ID#24135:
Hey Jims ..
Hgmcy up 10 % and Sgoly up
15 % today .. Im glad you
asked that question.
Now I have a question for YOU.
How come all this stuff goes UP
while gold goes DOWN.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:24
HopeFull (RICHARD DENNIS...u know, they guy who was on the same side as Soros) ID#402148:
...when they broke the Bank of England, has taken a LONG YEN, SHORT $A, in anticiaption off BOJ starting formal intervwention process.

Do you notice that even though gold down slightly, the golds are firming to higher across the board

What you think?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:23
The Hatt (senior gold producers are coming back to life from a trading standpoint!) ID#364255:
As the U.S. Government continues to control the gold price inside money appears to be moving into gold stocks. Sooner or later this controlled gold market will become unmanageable and gold will break out to new highs.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:19
rhody (Spot POG: Nobody has mentioned it, so I shall: In the last 3 hrs.,) ID#413307:
spot gold has declined about $3.50, from a high of $286.50 to a
present price of about $283. What has happened? Did the Chinese
wait until the middle of the night to devalue the yuan?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:18
FOX-MAN__A (chas; I was letting tolerant1 know that he is being quoted on the ID#288186:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:14
chas (Anybody) ID#147201:
What's the referance on T1 at USA? TIA

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:13
the moon (hi) ID#374242:
hi ( this is a test )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:13
jman (Hello NightWriter?) ID#251268:
Did you stand up for your firecracker throwing friend the2nd time ?how about the 3rd time,h'm maybe the 4th~~~~get my drift?Hilary is not stupid she probably was aware of this 'relationship' while it was going on or was sure he was doing it with somebody,this whole thing is a diversion away from more criminal acts and it sewems to be working.IMO

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:10
chas (Silverbaron re your 7:38) ID#147201:
This is a really good suvey of problems. I have no concept of waves, but , in addition to the way the Fed is pumping reserves into the system, the effect of Euro programs, which I'm still digesting, and the potential sales of US bonds- I am looking at a dollar decline of hellacious proportions and a gold rise of the same. What do you think? TIA, Charlie

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:10
FOX-MAN__A (HEY T#1 !! You are in lights! You have been quoted over on the USAGOLD) ID#288186:
site! And of course, that quote was quite appropriate. Everthing
you say, regarding this sick man is appropriate! Thanks, Foxman

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:07
vronsky (Gold Reaches Critical Support - Near-term Turnaround Expected) ID#427357:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

One of the few bold analysts who CORRECTLY & TIMELY called the beginning of the Bear Market in stocks, NOW foresees a BOUNCE IN GOLD. Clif Droke's technical analysis makes him cautiously short-term Bullish on Gold .

Droke asserts We believe gold has reached a critical major support level and its action over the next one-to-two weeks will determine whether it will break firmly beneath this level or rise to short-term highs.

His detailed explanation of the included Candle-Stick Chart is as informative as it is educational in chart reading.

See Droke's report at the following URL. It will be necessary to delete the extra letters en of the word golden before pasting the URL to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:03
Leland (Allen(USA)) ID#316193:
My current opinion on the direction of price for precious
metals wouldn't be worth one of those '30s German marks.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:03
tolerant1 (Third in the House of ARAGORN, Namaste' and a hearty gulp to ya from the Island) ID#373284:
that is Long...Enjoy the Leo show, uh to town to renew all those discs...heh...heh...heh...and copious amounts of tequila...oh yeah...............................

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 13:02
NightWriter (You don't need a weatherman...) ID#390415:
to know which way the wind blows ( B. Dylan circa 1965 )

But the wind direction determines who looks good.

Gold bears have been looking mighty good for a long time.

Smart. Good prognosticators. Knowledgeable. Uncanny insight. Intuitive.

And all that. OK, wise guys, why is the XAU up and gold down? I have not seen this clear a divergence in 18 months.

Here's the Nightwriter read on current events: He really did lie to Hilary ( and Chelsea! ) , she really believed him, made a complete fool of herself ( as it turns out ) . I remember once going to bat for my prep school roommate who was accused of lighting a firecracker. Though guilty, he let me make a fool of myself defending him. That was in front of a mere assistant headmaster, however, not the entire world.

Best outcome scenario: A truly humbled and broken but still gifted man goes on to be one of the great world leaders of the modern era.

Odds of that scenario happening: Not too good. But miracles happen.

OK, Clinton bashers, go back through history, and you will find a lot of crooks and philanderers in office. But find another one that ever said, I misled you because I did not want to face the embarassing consequences of my own wrong behavior. Kennedy? Johnson? Nixon? Harding? FDR? Hello?

I will go toe-to-toe with most as a defender of conservative principles. I voted for Alan Keyes in 1996 and I am proud of it.

But I tell you, I still don't have this jerk ( O. Hatch circa 1998 ) figured out.

Go gold.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:54
Aragorn III (Leland and Allen(USA)) ID#212323:
I have not seen a plain-backed note, but what I have is not far from it, and I don't doubt that this process might have been skipped altogether with no loss of sleep by the issuing party. The back side as I have it is very faint and is not much more than a crude stencil-like picture.

Allen ( USA ) ...It would be my pleasure to send you one as payment for your past postings...notably the Chalkboard Village tale. I will locate and peruse the stack...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:54
Allen(USA) (Bloomberg News (c) 1998) ID#246224:
_Many Securities Firms Do Not Have Y2K PLans, Survey Shows_

( Survey from Jan to June 1998, 373 clearing houses, 1573 'other' securities firms, 3214 securities firms who initiate trades, total of 5160 firms responding )

21% of securities firms have NO Y2K plan

25% of securities firms say they have completed 30% or less of project

SEC It is not reasonable to suggest that all broker-dealers will be compliant on time


Q:When will your securities house tell you that you can expect that they will not be able to serve your interests at the end of 1999?

A:When hell freezes over?

Yes, indeedy-O!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:45
chas (Silverbaron USA) ID#147201:
Thanx for response. I'm still digesting. We watch this together, yes

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:44
Allen(USA) (Leland) ID#246224:
Fabulous snatch there at 06:11 this AM. Japanese and Chinese drunks about to stumble over each other trying to keep each other upright. If it weren't so tragic it would be a great comedy. Any guess on your part as to how this would affect POG or POS?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:42
Aragorn III (Silverbaron and JP) ID#212323:
Silverbaron...your general description was indeed adequate. JP, I'm not sure if we're on the same page. My understanding of your point is that you are trying to differentiate between paper money and digital money. This is a non-starter. And I don't take it personally when you say you disagree with me, because I have no ownership of the truth. When I say there is water in the ocean, and someone says, I disagree with you, Sir!, well, you see my point. It is not for me to do God's work.

I hope you have a pleasant trip! Appreciate the details of your visit because therein lie the very point of life. Namaste'. I look forward to your return.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:42
Isure (Strikes to continue) ID#368244:

Bombings to continue against U,S. everywhere, CNBC reports. The game

is a game no more.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:40
Allen(USA) (Aragorn III) ID#246224:
I would be delighted to have your consideration on this matter. I have a little scrap book that has paper 'money' in it and have really wanted to include the grand-daddy in my line up. Of course the Brazilian Real is a monument to paper in more recent years. I have a Turkish Lira note which seems to be going the same route just now.

Whatever your pleasure on that account.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:36
Spud Master (@EB & other fruits...) ID#28586:
I can only eat durian, cherimoya and paw paws. Sadly, all three be hard to find in dusty, dry Tejas. The fragrance of the durian reminds me of stench standing downwind of the Clintons.

Anyone a be a virtual millionaire in a corrupt market;
it's the conversion from virtual to real wealth that's
the hard bit


ps - sign of more to come?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:36
Leland (AragornIII) ID#316193:
Was it true that some of the later German currency was printed
only on one side to speed-up the printing presses? I have
read this somewhere, but do not know if it is true.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:34
Monkee Person (@S.A.) ID#288105:
Reading Argentina, Brasil, Chile noticias...people in S.A. are worried, very worried. Merval-listed stocks are back to 1995 levels and interest rates are moving up. The S.A. markets have not participated in this latest Wall Street rally.

East Asia, Russia, South America.... I must believe that U.S. money center banks are being hit hard, but no one dares pull the curtain aside.

Guess the U.S. is like the Good Witch of the North, just floating around in her impregnable bubble.

BTW: U. of Michigan report on AP broadcast yesterday predicted not more than 1.3% U.S. GDP growth rate through 2000, due to global economic ( not financial ) problems.

Aren't those U. of M. people supposed to be fairly savvy?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:33
FOX-MAN__A (HighRise; Good observations...Now, why is Gold moving up and down more) ID#288186:
than usual? Volatility? Could be...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:32
Silverbaron (chas @ Haggis post 8/18 19:37 Friend of ANOTHER) ID#289357:

I had read this post on the USAGOLD site about a week ago. The writer obviously understands a great deal about workings in the gold market, and is from a different perspective than most of us are.

I'm not too convinced about things like $6000 gold - it would be nice of course ( if you own it beforehand ) but the downside is just as powerful in other ways - if the dollar is reduced to the waste heap.

Just like most opinions voiced here - we will just have to watch and wait to see. Hedge your bets, whatever the case.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:31
Aragorn III (Allen(USA)) ID#212323:
Are you interested in the ugliest, yet granddaddy of them all, the One hundred million mark note? Look at those zeros! 100,000,000.

My reminders of false reality are not in mint state, but perhaps I can root up one suitable for use as a bookmark. The smaller notes are worthy of framing ( tiny wallpaper ) , made before the situation spiralled out of control. The H-Mil Mark note is a joke...worth less than the blank paper would be because the ink-work undermines its utility for making lists or letters.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:27
HighRise (Interesting new truths?) ID#401460:
June Housing Starts revised to +6% and July @ 6% the Fed is behind the curve. The Administration may be lieing about inflation numbers - No, really! Lieing, Never, not this Admiinistration. They don't lie.

XAU @ +1.23 ( +2.03% )^XAU&d=1y
30 yr bond @ +0.15 ( +0.27% )^tyx&d=b

TOKYO, Aug 19 ( Reuters ) - Japan does not need to sell U.S. Treasuries in
advance to intervene in the foreign exchange market, senior Finance Ministry
official Haruhiko Kuroda said on Wednesday.

``We can intervene immediately,'' Kuroda said, answering questions at the
Lower House budget committee.

``Japan sells U.S. Treasuries to acquire dollars in cash for intervention, but the actual procedure is done immediately in coordination with the New York Federal Reserve Bank,'' he said.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:26
Silverbaron (Aragorn III & JP @ Inflation / Deflation argument) ID#289357:
It seems to me that the key ( especially in a credit economy ) of inflationary or deflationary conditions is ( money supply excessive growth + inflationary psychology ) .

If both terms are going the same way, e.g. excessive money supply growth and expectations of inflation, then you get inflation. If money supply is contracting or growing slowly and you have expectations of deflation, then you get deflation.

If the terms are mixed, e.g. money supply excessive growth but NO expectations of inflation ( we have this now ) , or money supply growth not excessive and expectations of inflation, then you get mild inflation or dis-inflation.

Does this make any sense?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:26
JP (Aragorn III---I disagree with you) ID#253153:
I don't have time to respond now. I'm off on a long business trip to Europe and won't be back until the end of Aug.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:25
tolerant1 (Feel sorry for Hillary...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Hmmmmmmmmm...) ID#373284:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:22
Allen(USA) ('descent' should be 'decent') ID#246224:
But it still made cents in a funny sort of way!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:20
Allen(USA) (Aragorn III) ID#246224:
I would dearly love to own a descent condition Reichsmark note. Do you think you could part with one for a few, more modern US$ notes ( which at least for now haven't gotten as worthless as the former ) ? If not, do you know of a dealer who could supply? TIA

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:14
Aragorn III (JP) ID#212323:
I certainly don't disagree with your notion that the conditions are present for a deflation of the money supply. Lending Institutions have probably made lent money to every person capably of qualifying for a loan by this point. Now as the masses work to repay these loans without people taking out additional loans, the money supply will dwindle as the lent money finds its way back to the banks WITH INTEREST that wasn't created in the process.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:03
Aragorn III (JP...11:51...they are the same thing--cash and checks.) ID#212323:
When paid with a check, you can visit a bank to receive the cash. A check is a voucher for transfer of funds. The funds are or physical, matters not.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 12:03
Goldteck (. •There are over One Trillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000) of U.S. debt owned by foreigners which c) ID#431200:
. •There are over One Trillion dollars ( $1,000,000,000,000 ) of U.S. debt owned by foreigners which could be repatriated under certain conditions EagleWing Research ..... Why Gold Funds?
1.Why Invest in Gold?
Historically, gold has always been a method for storing value when ordinary currency was losing value. If other investments were valued in the depreciating currency, allocating a portion to gold assets was similar to a financial insurance policy.
2.Reasons to say NO to Gold
•Gold has been going down since 1980. •Central banks have tons of bullion which they threaten to sell at any time. •Gold funds have been a major loser on Wall Street for years. •Professional hedge funds are shorting gold, and they must know what they're doing. •The timing is wrong. •Gold investors are crazy.
3.Reasons to say YES to Gold
•The price of gold recently hit a 18 year low and is historically dirt cheap. •Once the price of gold starts to rise, central banks will not want to sell cheaply. •Most gold funds hit a yearly low in July and the individual gold stocks in each fund are bouncing off their lows. •The short position held by hedge funds may eventually produce an unmatched explosion to the upside. •With the recent devaluation of many international currencies, the U.S. dollar has become the international safe haven of last resort, and may continue to record trade deficits well into the future, eventually resulting in higher gold prices. •There are over One Trillion dollars ( $1,000,000,000,000 ) of U.S. debt owned by foreigners which could be repatriated under certain conditions. This could cause a major decline in the value of the dollar and a soaring gold price. •Consumption of gold has exceeded production for the past eight years, and with the price of gold well below the average production cost of $317, some gold mines are ceasing production. •The last time the price of gold reached as low as $326 in 1992, it produced a dramatic increase in jewelry demand around the world, and a year-long metals rally. Many funds doubled in value. •If you believe in 'buy low, sell high', gold is low. Almost everything else is high. •Gold investors are smart.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:59
Grizz (Goldteck - I do not feel sorry for Hillary) ID#424394:
My impression from reading about the Clintons and their business dealings and other machinations - legal and illegal - is that Hillary is just as much of a shark or more so than Bill is. They are both hungry for power and will stop at nothing or cut anybody's throat {literally!} or arrange for some ally to do it for them.

I do not feel sorry for Chelsea either - she is just as much of a spoiled little shark herself. The whole family is corrupt, conniving and evil - both the Clinton nuclear family and the extended family they brought with them from Arkansas who have sought to take over Washington politics and America and run it like a 3rd world country is run by their gov't.

What these people are doing to America - from top to bottom - is an embarrassment to us all AT LEAST, and a real threat to our national security.

I don't care how they feel or their personal tribulations. They have sought to subvert and oppress America.

Clinton/s have lost their moral and real authority to govern. Nobody, from the average American to foreign adversaries and allies, can trust Clinton any more - whether it is about sex or about sending or not sending in military force. Clinton is a figurehead president now - unfortunately with the ability to sign and implement executive orders to take retribution on a nation that has turned its back on him. We must get rid of him before he & Hillary exact their revenge.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:52
Oro__A (Somebody just dropped 500000 shares of CBJ) ID#185410:
Wasn't someone talking of capitulation?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:51
JP (I hate to pour cold water on a fire but---The CB and the politicians can't stop runaway deflation) ID#253153:
We have entered runaway deflation back in Feb 1998 and recently we have received a Dow Theory Primary Bear Market signal. Deflation will run to exhaustion and that is a long term process. In a credit system like ours , the only way to stop deflation is to pay government expenses with cash instead of checks. So far the government is paying expenses with checks.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:49
As with every other bozo predicter here at Kitco GCH is no more clairvoyant than your average psychic hotline. He posts here like most of us do--for the fun of it. If he can get a rise out of some poor sucker like you so much the better! Anybody who takes anything said here seriously by anyone deserves what they ask for. I don't believe even he believes everything he says. Just using Kitco as a sounding board for the opinions of others. As I have lurked here abouts over the past year I've come to notice that some posters are specifically wrong and generally right, while others are specifically right and generally wrong. The degree of rightness and wrongness is usually a matter of timeframe. Some people see all the mountains clearly while ignoring all the market valleys, while others like to wander up and down the mountains with every market jiggle.

The bottom line is that everybody has part of the truth and a lot of the falsehood. The whole idea of Kitco as I understand it is to argue your position as best you can, defend it with as many statistics as possible and laugh at everybody else who disagrees with you. In the final analysis, it's everybody for himself. Kitco is like a market sentiment barometer. Look at it once or twice a day to get a general read of what is going on but don't expect it to give you time , temperature and a complete weather forecast--that is not its purpose as I see it and I am the GOLDEN PROPHET!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:44
bridge (Amerian gold vs So African?) ID#262351:
How can I do a relative strength of Amerian gold vs So African on the web? What is the relative strength and more importantly, can you tell me which RSI is better? Thanks

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:44
Leland (Tolerant1) ID#316193:
Your name gets mentioned today...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:44
Goldteck (AvalonI I really feel sorry for Hillary) ID#431200:
Bill Clinton has always acted like Bill Clinton. I understand that.What I don't understand why a very smart woman like Hillary went on TV in january to defend her husband saying that it was a conspiracy of the extreme right.I thought after the interview that she was interested only to power,prestige and she did not care to be cheated.Everybody had heard before about John Kennedy.I think honestly that she made a bad move by accepting the interview.I really feel sorry for her .It's not easy to be the wife of a young President.Jacqueline knew about that.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:42
Aragorn III (An informal roll call of familiar voices...BUGal has been back awhile,) ID#212323:
Who Cares? has now returned much to the delight of his many fans ( as soon as they realize he is who he is ) . Now, what I'm looking for is the reincarnation of the poster formerly known as Kiwi. What new name will he bring to life? Keep your noses clean, gentlemen.

And seem absent of your own accord. Understandable, if gold no longer holds your interest, but how about an update on a personal note to those who know you as a friend?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:40
Leland (...a sea change is in process here and that means that investors) ID#316193:
should be watching carefully. ( Japan & China )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:39
kitkat (Canadian Mines Up Today - Why?) ID#208393:
Gold is down yet all Canadian mines are showing a nice rebound today. Why now? Buyers have been watching the mines and the dollar slide for months. Could a rise in Canadian interest rates be on the immediate horizon, thus spelling an end to the low dollar? Only the well connected know - and they are buying!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:38
rhody (Just got off the phone with my financial analyst: Take a look) ID#413307:
at the US 30 bond. They are beginning to inflate. That's what is
driving the markets.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:29
J (EJ: Gold price stability) ID#174239:
Gold and the $US seem to both be used worldwide as stable, international cash. If you have $US, then gold goes up when other currencies go up against the $US and down when the dollar is stronger. In effect gold acts more like just another currency. If you lived in Japan you would see the price of gold go up about 10% so far this year. In the US it has been almost flat.

If one thinks of gold as a commodity, like cotton or pork bellies, its behavior dosn't make sense.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:27
Leland (The Indices Just Changed. Oil and Gold Going Up. Dow Headed Down.) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:25
Aragorn III (Had a discussion with a wise old man, self-employed, and thoroughly committed to the stock market) ID#212323:
He shared the popular attitude that the thing will just keep going up ( with volitility which is to be ignored ) , and although the levels may seem scary from a historical perspective, a person shouldn't be on the sidelines with cash---they will MISS OUT on all the money to be made!

I said, You know, EVERYONE can't be a millionaire ( rich ) , because wealth is a relative thing.

He paused for a moment of reflection, and said I was right. I doubt that he has altered his investment strategy though.

Look how many multi-millionaires there were in 1923. Everyone was in the same soup. Even I am a multi-millionaire...with a short stack of 1922 and 1923 German marks. It doesn't mean a thing.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:25
chas (Silverbaron re Another) ID#147201:
Have you had a chance to digest the report by Haggis @ 8/18 19:37?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:25
Realistic (@Golden Cheesehead) ID#410194:
Golden Cheesehead,

You mentionned earlier today that we will see new lows in the Dow around September 4-6.

Are you sure?

Why would it turn out to be true this time?

People who sold ALL STOCKS AND BONDS and took advantage of the OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFETIME BY BUYING PM's on or after October 24th of last year must be in a desperate situation don't you think?

Some comments would be appreciated, thanks.

Date: Fri Oct 24 1997 16:37

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:11
John Disney__A (Yes Indeed..) ID#24135:
The Blooper is wise and knows
ALL .. problem is that like the
Oracle at Delphi .. he speaks in

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:10
Leland (SEQUIN) ID#316193:
Maybe the Japanese first need to learn how to KISS. ( Keep it
simple, stupid. )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:04
tolerant1 (vronsky, Namaste' and an early morning gulp to ya from the Island that is Long...) ID#373284:
Hmmmmmmmmmm...the IMF...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Camdesuss is mine...all mine...

Oh yeah...the site is looking strong my friend...Brabo!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:03
SEQUIN (I wonder if the Japanese invented a Kanji) ID#25171:
for Y2K . =*!!2000!!! WOULD DO

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 11:02
EB (Jim Murray) ID#187109:
*One of the best sports writers of our time*

AGULP TO YA!! Sad to see you go. Now I can cancel my subscription to the LA Times..... a better place... ( ? )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:56
EB (well well well............(Dell up 9 bucks.....on strong earnings?)......hmmmm...) ID#187109:
I can't figure this bloop character out.

stox will crash I'm in cash
stox will rally I'll buy NEM
stox will crash I sold NEM ( two days later for a loss )
stox will rally for two days and then crash I will trade this rally
stox will crash Sept
stox will crash Oct 22
stox will NOT crash but make HUGE gains
stox will then crash......... ( ? ) .......... ( HUH? ) ...

Hmmmmmmmmmm....... I now forget ( even though he tells us EXPERT stuff every fifteen minutes ) what will the markets do according to

Blooper, Help me out here. I am trying to learn from the expert. If you are calling for a HUGE blowoff until October then why not trade it and make money. You ARE the expert. You set the date.....OCTOBER 22! have PLENTY of trading days until the top which will be a mother of tops w/o making a new top
'cause we're in a BEAR market crash....... ( huh? ) ................


.......and gold will not benefit from it all...........unfortunadamente :- ( listen for Ben barking at the fridge ;- )

I would like to thank JD and many others for turning me onto a number of gold stox. I have been DOING MY OWN HOMEWORK with help from JD's laws and stuff and have been TEMPTED MANY times to buy them but have held back. I will be there when the time comes.......believe me.

Until then.................Harry Dent says.........DOW 35,000 by the year 2008. I just saw him earlier this am on CNBC......... ( that Maria is a Hottie too, there is something about her...uh huh.... )

btw......RJ, no need to defend me about Disney ( stox not John ) . I made it ALL public for ALL to see and make comments knowing FULL WELL I would get them. Now...........we wait. I enjoy the comments and will repost the comments in December and then in July '99. I have patience, perserverance and determination. This kitco, she is one of my homes and I will return no matter what......................... ( at least until WhyTwoKay shuts my electricity off and I will be forced to live with Macaroni&cheese and a Honda generator ) . I love this......this thing we call Kitco....... ( thanks BART! ) .

btw.......when I gave Dell a buy sig at beginning of year ( it was after split and OBVIOUS ) it was at 64± you like apples? How do ya like dem............

now......back to gold.......

go gold.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:56
Spud Master (@JohnDisney re. Hillary) ID#28586:
Truer words were never spoken.

I gag hard each time I hear our prostituted Press express sympathy & admiration for her for standing by Clinter. I doubt she's had any relationship with him other than that of a handler for years.

What gross,noisome hypocrisy.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:54
Leland (This Explains Something That I've Always Wondered. The Japanese Have Trouble Reading Japanese.) ID#316193:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:51
John Disney__A (RSA meets Y2K) ID#24135:
RSA will be the first country to receive a world
bank grant to help cope with the Y2K bug. Some of the
money will be used to train programming bug busters.
RSA is overall 17 % compliant. The private sector looks
like 30 to 60 % compliant .. the Government much less.
Areas like social security are particularly weak.
However RSA is the only African country with a program
to ensure compliance.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:50
(What is hapenning?) ID#152206:
What is moving the gold spot market this way? Up 2 bucks then down 2?

Are the Russians selling again?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:47
JTF (Bull or Bear?) ID#57232:
All: If this market can rise with WJC problems, and an imminent China/Japan world financial crisis, it is still very strong indeed. What I have noticed is that -- at times this market is sensitive to even the littlest piece of bad news -- at other times nothing bothers it. Remember the Kennedy assassination?
My quess -- for whatever it is worth -- is that the markets will rise out of that wall of worry at least until labor day.
Gold equities are unlikely to rise until after CRY0 stops looking like it fell off a cliff -- probably spring 1999. What really amazes me is that gold and the commodity price indices are suggesting that prices are at a 20 year low. Why is it that the cost of living is not at a 20 year low as well? As Hamlet would say -- 'There is something rotten in Denmark' -- apologies to aurator.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:44

tolerant1: REF your comment Oh Camdesuss...your next...but you are mine pal...

Saw Dr. Milton Friedman on CNN last night. His emphatic recommendation was that:

- the IMF is THE CAUSE of Asian woes
- the IMF became obsolete way back in 1973
- the IMF should be abolished

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:43
EJ (Junior) ID#229207:
I do not understand how the gold market can go through these fluctuations in demand without moving the price of gold more than we've seen. How can gold demand drop as it did due to Asia selling and then rise 50% a few months later and the price of gold still hovers in the 280 - 300 range. What market forces might cause this to happen? If not market forces but manipulation, then who has an interest in gold staying within this range? Why this range, and not a different range, say $250 - $270 or $300 - $320? Any ideas?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:35
Leland (OLD GOLD) ID#316193:
The Shepler bulletins are very insightful. A special thank you
for posting them!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:33
John Disney__A (Homestake drives me nuts ..) ID#24135:
paying 11 bucks for this money
losing mine with few resources is
a monument to something or other..

I just dont comprehend .. but then
I never thought America would elect
Clinton either.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:31
tolerant1 (Open comment to the NSA, FBI, CIA and all the other initials that cost squillions...) ID#373284:
Neuter Chelsea
Help cut UN Funding

Oh Camdesuss...your next...but you are mine pal...My Father's ghost, me and some friends from Asia have a party planned in your honor...and don't bother to bring your Visa card...we only accept AMERICAN EXPRESS...

Oh yeah...and a certain dog will be there for the festivities...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:30
John Disney__A (You see ..) ID#24135:
Im not wrong ALL the time ..
Hgmcy up smartly .. dont sweat
sgoly .. just collect your 23
% and wait for it to go to
eight bucks.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:23
OLD GOLD (RJ) ID#242325:
Hope you will let us know IN BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS when you finally take a long position in gold.

VIX down sharply this morning. Another signal the rally may soon run out of steam

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:18
Avalon (John Disney; I agree, Bill is just the front man for the real President. Now, how ) ID#254269:
do we impeach a first lady ? I don't have time to follow all the ins and outs of this saga ( as interesting as it is ) , but was listening to Rush Limbaugh yesterday and he had Peter the Lawyer ( a frequent caller ) on the show. Says that they will get WJC on criminal charges. Also, over on Freerepublic site, there is a lot of talk about drug use. The Editorial page of today's WSJ is all about Clinton. Will be interesting to see which other Democrats start to call for his resignation.

Whatever happens, it looks like being a long drawn out affair ( pun intended ) .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:16
strat (weasel) ID#93241:
A wounded animal is a dangerous animal. I don't look for Clinton to take this crisis lying down. Don't be surprised if he comes back from vacation bound and determined to redeem himself. That would be Bill Clinton at his worst...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:14
OLD GOLD (Shepler sees rally ending soon) ID#242325:

Market Commentary:

Well, it appears that 8/17 market turning point was a short-term low
after all. With another strong advance Tuesday for the Dow and S&P 500,
the market broke out above the downtrend line from the July 20th top.
This invalidated our bearish near-term outlook, and now argues for
further price advance into this Friday's expiration day. The reason we
did not issue a switching signal Tuesday is that the market is already
in vicinity of our upside target of 1100-1110 SPX and 8700-8800 DJIA. We
think that any further upside between now and options expiration is
likely to be choppy and result in very little price advance. The market
is getting overbought by many shorter-term measures, and our next ideal
turning point date is the period of 6/20-6/24. Thus, we think this rally
only has 1-3 days and about 1% more upside left in it.
Our proprietary buy/sell indciator never gave a strong buy signal,
thus not confirming the current rally. This suggests that the rally will
be very short lived. In fact, with Tuesday's rally, our buy/sell
indciator is now within striking distance of the sell zone. It appears
that it will reach the sell zone by Friday of this week. When this
indicator reaches the sell zone, the market is typically within one day
of a top. This adds further credence to our forecast of a high for this
rally in the 6/20-6/24 timeframe. So, it appears to us that time is
running out for the bulls in their desperate attempt to rebound the
Short-term sentiment measures which were supportive of further rally
on Monday, have moderated somewhat Tuesday, and are now closer to
neutral levels. For new subscribers, the Rydex ratio is the ratio of the
assets in the Rydex bear fund ( Ursa ) over the sum of assets in the two
Rydex bulls funds ( Nova and OTC ) . This is used as a contrary indicator.
When this ratio reaches extremely high levels, such as last Friday's
119%, the market is poised to rebound. Conversely when this ratio
reaches extremely low levels such a the late July readings of 14%, the
market is poised to decline. Tuesday's Rydex ratio came in at 72%, an
improvement over Monday's 96%, but still high enough to support further
rally. The OEX put/call ratio ( the ratio of put volume to call volume
for S&P 100 options ) declined to a neutral reading of 1.07 down from
Monday 1.38 reading. Monday's 1.38 reading suggested further advance,
but Tuesday's 1.07 suggests the rally may soon run out of steam,
especially if the put/call ratio keeps dropping in the coming days.
Market internals improved Tuesday with Advancers beating out
Decliners by better than 2 to 1 at 2073 Advancers to 926 Decliners. New
Highs also increased to 56 issues, but were still bested by new lows
which declined to 151 issues. One day does not make a trend, but as long
as breadth and new highs vs. new lows continue to improve the rally will
likely continue. The one weak spot however is still volume. Volume
improved to 688 million shares from Monday's anemic 586 million shares,
but this is still not the kind of strength in volume that shows real
buying conviction. Also, we would be negligent if we overlooked
Tuesday's several high TICK readings, including a +920 TICK. This type
of reading will usually identify a short-term high, so we may see some
pullback or some sideways trading Wednesday.
So, we remain with our current Ursa trade looking for a choppy
weakening rally to terminate within the next few days.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:13
vronsky (IS IT THE CANADIAN DOLLAR'S TURN TO CRASH? - James Dines) ID#427357:

Precious Metals analyst Dines shares his insightful and incisive report - albeit grim - on the Northern Peso. He also relates Asian turmoil in stocks and currencies with the increasing woes of Canada.

It is remarkable that the decline in the Canadian dollar had until only
recently escaped the notice of the world's press, nonetheless it has dropped a dismaying 8.0% since March 27th.

Canadian economists have been surprised by the recent slowdown in their
Gross Domestic Product, a decline in shipments of manufactured goods, and
the number of jobs having declined in June for two consecutive months. The Asian currency crisis is already affecting Canada, having ravaged its
west-coast timber industry.

The dismaying truth is that governments worldwide are very deliberately and knowingly printing too much paper money because they unabashedly want their currencies to decline in world marketplaces in order to give their exporters an advantage over those in other countries.

Every country in the world is devaluing its currency against the US dollar, the English pound, and the Chinese renminbi. President Clinton panders to Chinese pride by describing its refusal to devalue having made it a island of stability in the region, but China's exports are plunging as their neighbors continue to devalue, and the question is how long China will tolerate their exports disappearing before they too yield to devaluation.

Dines report on The Coming Currency Crisis Worldwide may be seen in its entirety at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting the URL to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:12
SteveIS__A (Bear market?) ID#280339:
If my understanding of dow theory is correct it has signaled a primary bear. This happened on the 300 point down day when the dj 30 made a lower low.

However the Nasdaq composite didn't make a lower low. It didn't even touch the 200 day moving average. Yahoo and Dell should make new highs today. The NComp is already off to the races today.

Since trading on the nasdaq surpasses the volumn on the NY exchange it won't be a confirmed bear to me until the Nasdaq makes a lower low.

Of course the market internals suck. Japan and China are about to declare bankrupcy. Boy Clinton problems are only getting worse. Sounds like a great wall of worry that the market will climb one last time.

Go Gold!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:10
SEQUIN (@ JTF & Jung) ID#25171:
Thank you for your comments yesterday.
Although I am not trying to diminish the potential impact of the outstanding derivative portfolios which are certain to doom the financial system , we have to try to assess objectively the scope of the risk.
First , it is true that the size of derivative portfolios is tremendous but you have to be aware that a lot of the notional amount involved is meaningless. In a derivative book , you don't worry about those which have a very probability of expiring in or out of the money as there is not a lot of uncertainty associated with those.
You worry about derivatives on which you have to rely on technical tools to manage and which represent a big market risk.Usually , 30 % of the book size.
Then , to answer your second point , it is true that the derivative trader community is young and inexperienced.However , very sophisticated technical tools are at their disposal and the scope of the scenari tested with these tools is far reaching.
The real worry about derivatives is more in the systemic risk involved ( a chain reaction of defaults ) than in the management of the books itself.I think that if RUSSIA and S.E. ASIA are not bailed out the bank profits will suffer as much as in the early 80s. ( A bail out means you and I pay instead of the banks )
The lack of regulation concerns more the relationship client / banks than the bank/bank which represents most of the outstanding volume .
It is also true that banks are playing with their depositor/ shareholder money but you have to admit that as the corporate lending market has shrinked because of the easy access to capital markets for even small entities banks had to find new toys to play with.
What is also worrying is that there is no way to assess the real exposure of banks to derivatives. However the fed has been tightening controls there ( I know what most of us think about the fed but it is not in their best interest to have a derivative scare and they are extremely tough about control; I know that firsthand )
In short the risk for the financial system is huge but not as big as figures might imply.
Now , the big scare right is JAPAN.
If they default , the chinese are dead and so the banking system as we know it . Bad loans in JAPAN are about 1.3 trillion $ ( unofficial ) . Either the JAPANESE let some bank default or they borrow their way out of trouble . Whichever way , financial armagedon is at hand. I think that in that sense , the catastrophe movies that we had this summer are prophetic and will show the turning point of the economic miracle.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:06
chas (John Disney re weasel) ID#147201:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 10:01
John Disney__A (Really ..) ID#24135:
Avalon ..
Hillary would stand by her man
if she found out he was the
antichrist .. as long as she
was close to the power .. she's
a power vampire... power gives
her everlasting life .. she is
the REAL case .. Bill's just a
poor weasel .. she's more

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:56
Junior (World Gold Demand UP - 50% That is and should be Bullish ) ID#248180:
Mining News
Wed, 19 Aug 1998, 11:57pm EST

BN 8/19 World Gold Demand Rises 50% in 2nd Quarter, WGC Says ( Update2 )
World Gold Demand Rises 50% in 2nd Quarter, WGC Says ( Update2 )

( Adds analyst comment, details from 4th paragraph. )

London, Aug. 19 ( Bloomberg ) -- Demand for gold worldwide
rose 50 percent in the three months ending June 30 compared with
the previous quarter, although it was still 9 percent lower than
the same period in 1997, the World Gold Council said.

The economic slowdown in East Asia more than halved global
gold consumption in the first three months of this year as
government-organized collections of jewelry by countries such as
South Korea made those nations net sellers of gold as they bid to
raise cash and boost slumping economies.

While the end of such collections boosted gold demand in the
three months to the end of June, overall demand in the period
fell 9 percent compared with the second quarter 1997 to 634
metric tons. Demand in the first half of this year was down 28
percent to 1,040.9 tons compared with the same period last year.
``It could only get better, it certainly couldn't get worse
because things were so awful in the first quarter,'' said Tony
Warwick-Ching, a precious metals analyst at Flemings Global
Mining Group in London. ``There are still very big holes in the
recovery story and people will be looking for a resumption in the
growth trends that were evident before.''

The first impact of the Asian regional slowdown was seen in
China, Hong Kong and Taiwan, the WGC said. Demand in those
countries fell 23 percent in the second quarter from the previous
year to 76.6 tons while Japanese demand slumped 21 percent in the
``There is some honesty here from the World Gold Council
because this region is a long way from being out of this very
subdued phase,'' Warwick-Ching said.

There are also some concerns over India, the world's largest
gold consumer, where demand in the second quarter totaled 206.1
tons, a record. A weakening rupee may slow third quarter
purchases of gold, Warwick-Ching said.


WGC gold market research head, George Milling-Stanley, said
the improved demand in the second quarter was largely a result of
the halt to government-organized jewelry sales.
``The most significant event was the end of the huge gold
collection campaign in South Korea,'' he said. Still, ``the
outlook is for the recovery to continue over the rest of the
He was also more optimistic about the key Indian market.
``India continues to benefit from the government's policy of
deregulating the gold market,'' Milling-Stanley said. Part of the
increase in second quarter demand came from concern that the new
government's budget would increase import tariffs on gold, which
did in fact rise from about 6 percent of current gold prices to
about 7 percent.

Gold demand was also buoyed by lower prices, Milling-Stanley
said. Gold is currently trading at $285.80 an ounce, close to the
more than 18-year low of $276.75 an ounce seen in January.
``There's no doubt that in certain parts of the world the
lower U.S. dollar price had an impact on gold consumption,''
Milling-Stanley said. Local gold prices in important consuming
nations such as India and Turkey showed little change over the
past year and consumption rose, he said.

Elsewhere, second quarter gold demand in the U.S. increased
19 percent to 83.7 tons and rose in Europe by 10 percent to 56.1

The report surveys gold demand in 25 different markets,
which cover about 80 percent of total consumption. The council
expects to include more information on Middle Eastern markets,
particularly Pakistan, in future reports.
--Vaughan Scully in Melbourne and Nick Thomas in London ( 44-171 ) 330-7338/pja/jas

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:48
chas (ChasAbar re request) ID#147201:
Email requested TIA

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:27
Avalon (Goldteck) ID#254269:
Hillary must be the only one ( who still believes in her marriage ) .

You know, for someone who's supposed to be pretty bright ( Hillary ) , she's really pretty stupid. I have no sympathy for her or any member of the family ( except possibly Buddy ) .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:23
Avalon (David Tice Followers; Today's WSJ has a small feature artcile re Prudent) ID#254269:
Bear Fund, It is in the Texas Journal section ( Southwest Edition ) on Page T.2. Says that his fund has positions in Golden Star Resources and Canarc Resources ( both Canadian Companies ) .

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:14
sharefin (Cory Hamasaki's DC Y2K Weather Report V2, # 34) ID#284255:
August 17, 1998 - 500 days to go. WRP90
( c ) 1997, 1998 Cory Hamasaki - I grant permission to distribute and reproduce this newsletter as long as this entire document is reproduced in its entirety. You may optionally quote an individual article but you should
include this header down to the tearline. I do not grant permission to a commercial publisher to reprint this in print media.

As seen in

Don't forget, the Y2K chat-line: any evening, 8-10PM EST.
--------------------tearline -----------------------------
Please fax or email copies of this to your geek pals, especially those idiots who keep sending you lightbulb, blonde, or Bill Gates jokes, and urban legends like the Arizona rocket car story.

If you have a Y2K webpage, feel free to host the Weather Reports.

Did you miss Geek Out?
Project Dumbass needs you.

In this issue:
1. Y2K minus 500
2. Y2K not a big deal
3. Y2K and you.
4. What's going to happen
5. What can you do
6. Team starting up

------------- Y2K minus 500 ---------

What does it mean... We're outa time for triage and the contingencies that would keep a semblence of the infrastructure running.

The work has not been done. There is not enough time left to engineer and deploy emergency systems, to rip out the complex systems and replace them with 90% accurate, close enough for government work, simpler

This is what I believe... a few large corporations will complete their remediation work, a few essential systems will be 100% compliant, some cities and towns will manage to function nearly normally.

I don't believe that any government agency including the SSA will be 100 percent operational. There will be failures and confusion everywhere.

However... B52's will still fly. Most of the Navy will be operational... sure, some of ship's administrative computers will fail but a good porkchop knows how to bypass the system anyway.

In the old days, you had your checking account and your savings account.
It was simple.

Today, you have interest checking with overdraft protection, direct deposit, debit cards, 128 bit electronic banking, ATMs, automatic bill payment, minimum balance for no service charge, and dozens of other
complexities that are not necessary. All this takes code, lots of code.

Up to day 500 there was a chance to return banking to its simpler roots.

It didn't happen, there isn't enough time to consider this alternative and to implement simple, Y2K-safe banking.

It doesn't matter if it is still possible for a bank to actually create a simpler way... the previous two paragraphs are examples of hypothetical triage, contingencies that should have been planned for all industries.

It didn't happen...

What did happen is the FAA falsified their Y2K posture... they were caught by both the GAO and the DOT's Inspector General. But the FAA is not the enemy... they are just a convenient example, a fable for our
times. Clueless management, pomposity and arrogance raging in the halls, their Y2K TSAR declares himself to have a PhD from the school of hard knocks. Unsubstantiable success stories...

This happy talk is happening across the board, in industry, in government, in the utilities. No one has owned up to their problems... we seen a few shills issuing platitudes, a few statements that NOBODY PANIC. When I hear the screams, NOBODY PANIC, I start looking for someone to knock down so I can get to the exit before them.

So what does this mean to you... and me, and your mom...

It means you're on your own, you've been abandoned by the corporations and the government. They're not going to do it for you. You have to take action for yourself... and you have 500 days to do it... less
if you expect failures to begin in January 1999 due to the Jo Anne Effect. The Jo Anne Effect...

It's odd that the breakthoughs of Y2K understanding have come from the grassroots movement in c.s.y2k, tm_year, SVC-11, Time Dilation, RAILINC, Rick Cowles' book, cash on hand, grain, water, solar for everyman... and now the Jo Anne Effect, the understanding that accounting systems will start probing the wall at 2000 in January 1999, some might start earlier... That systems that sort transactions into last year, this year, and next year must know about 2000 in 135 days.

We're outa time, what do you do?

The first thing you do is ... buy my book... just kidding, I did start to write a personal survival text for Y2K but probably won't complete that project.

The first thing is decide on your strategy for six month survival and forever.

You can ride out a three month failure using stored provisions... and if we're just talking food, it's only a few hundred dollars. Boil water or Clorox it. Install Solar panels or a generator. Have some cash on hand, some? Try thousands of dollars. You don't want to be in East St. Louis, Miami, South Chicago, or living in Central Park... you know your area. You know where it's safe and where it isn't.

Beyond six months, you must be self-sustaining. This doesn't mean producing absolutely everything yourself. It means having collapse-proof money, silver perhaps. Having a means to produce food or items and skills that can be traded for essentials.

The more you strive for a comfortable and guarenteed safe life, the greater the cost. For example, my forever scenario is living in a shed 65 miles outside of DC. It'll be cold in the winter, hot in the summer and the water has to be hauled in from the spring. It means living on beans and rice mostly, then shifting to corn, squash, and beans. But it won't take a lot of cash because my expectations are modest.

Security at the farm isn't a Springfield Armory M1A and a couple other assault rifles. Security comes from the fact that the farm is miles off the state road, up a county road, and then a mile of gravel road that snakes through another farmer's corn field. Oh and we'll cut the road with the frontloader.

I'm not planning on firefights but my pal is a gun-nut and has a typical gun-nut's armory... he's not the one with the Holland and Holland shotguns though, that's another gun-nut.

The day 500 message is, they didn't do their job. Get ready. Get ready for 3, 6 months or forever. milne, ney, and others are preparing for forever... if that is too much, remember, this too will pass.

If you had five double eagles, two sets of clothing, good boots, a cooking kit, a knife, a canvas tarp, an AR-15 and 100 rounds of SS109, you'd be wealthier that 99 percent of the people in the world.

If you had a 5 acre spread in the boonies, a well, a two room shack, a wood stove, Clorox, liquid detergent, a 10 watt solar system, an SSB/CW transceiver, a shovel, axe, seeds, you could live better than any ancient king.

---- Y2K not a big deal, can be solved! -----------

You've read the exhortations from Peter deJager, stay the course, code fellas, we can do it. There have been confident statements that this firm ( unnamed ) is doing well or that person ( unnamed ) works somewhere
that's in fine shape. This counters the rumors that this firm ( also unnamed ) is toast or that person ( unnamed ) sees a train wreck in their future. Or does it?

Let's take a dispassionate look at this. If a firm is doing so well, why not announce that to the world? I'm feeling goooooood today, I lost a bunch of weight, found a twenty dollar bill, the minoxidil is working, and geekettes find me irresistable.

On the other hand, if the Viagra isn't helping, the athelete's foot has spread to my 'recreational body parts', well, would I be running ads to that effect in the Wall Street Journal?

..or would I impose a news blackout and the only way you'd find out about it ... pssssst, don't use my name but the fat geek has this skin condition... I heard it from my barber who heard it from his dermatologist.

Everytime we hear good news and an independent review is made, it turns out that someone is wishing real hard. What about the situations where there isn't an independent review?

This doesn't mean that some firms aren't getting the job done. At the last WDC Y2K, the Y2K VP's from three corporations presented their firm's Y2K posture and lessons learned. These were: Fidelity Investments,
Marriot, and Fannie Mae. They've been pressing hard, spending the bucks. and they're not done yet.

Will they make it? Probably. Will they have problems? Absolutely but the problems should be solvable since they've been pressing hard for years. But what does this mean about all the other corporations in the
world? ... Well, BankBoston will probably make it.... same with USAA.

What about the others, the ones who haven't come clean? What does the absence of proof mean? Is this good news or bad? Does this mean it can be solved or that the wishful thinking goes on a little longer?

..And yes, even if BankBoston makes it, if all their trading partners fail, they fail too.

--------- Y2K and you -------------

The question is, what about you. At 500, it's time to decide for yourself. Has the government, utilities, transportation, finance, manufacturing, communications proved to you, beyond a reasonable doubt, to a moral certainty, that they have things under control, that they are on track, and if not, contingencies and backups are defined, in place, and tested?

Have they done this, do you have evidence that a reasonable man would accept or are you being asked to 'trust me' but you don't really know who you're being asked to trust.

What happens if it's worse than their guesses? Who loses and what do they lose? What is at stake? Are we talking about paying $1.98/gallon for unleaded or slogging over the Shennadoah mountains in mid-winter to
escape the ragtag army of Free Delaware. they sweep west on another campaign to subdue and loot Appalachia. Darn, only 27 rounds of 5.56 left... make each shot count.

Do you feel lucky today? Well... do you?

--------- What's going to happen? --------

Here's my guess. I'm writing it at 1:30 AM, the house is quiet and the night outside is dark. The systems will begin to fail within 150 days, not the trivial predictive systems that have been exhibiting problems for the last year, the critical systems that drive electronic commerce, the complex sets of code that move the information that causes food, fuel, materials, goods to be scheduled, allocated, placed where they're needed, when needed.

Most of these failures will not be life critical, DKNY delivers an excess of size 16 outfits, a shortage of Fruit Loops develops, a VTAM outage causes a 45 day delay in the release of the new Puff Daddy CD.

Doesn't matter... or does it? Does it cause DKNY to bid up the rates for DB2 programmers and hire SQLealers who would have been completing the Y2K remediation at the Federal Reserve? Does Kellogs engage Mobil
Oil in an open war for geeks?

I'm guessing that it will start in January 1999, the failures and crisis will become more and more evident throughout the year. The grit will be tossed into the machinery and it will become worse and worse through
1999. 2000 will be a mess and just as the systems seem to settle down, 1Q2001 will produce a new wave of problems as the systems that look back and report on the previous year, are run for the first time with
zero-zero data.

But you know that. What does it mean to you? Well, it depends. I'm guessing that most people will be able to ride this out in suburbia or a medium sized city... but know that this is a guess. Know that I am an optimist. There is no reason to believe that we won't see a complete collapse of civilization. Anyone who says that things will be fine hasn't got a good sense of history or current events.

History - In the 1970's, I went to Guatemala... it's been in the news lately, tourists and students killed, robbed, and raped. There's some kind of civil war going on. Here's the real story, Guatemala is a beautiful land, the people I met were honest, hardworking. The country is rich in natural resources, the climate is pleasant, it reminded me of Hawaii. But something's wrong there and it's not the first time.

I visited Tikal, you've seen it. The jungle planet at the end of Star Wars, the target of the Death Star, was filmed at Tikal. Tikal was an ancient city state, the focus of a florishing Central American civilization; I've seen the carvings, climbed to the top of the Temple of the Giant Jaguar, put my hand on the stellae, the lentals, seen the
glyphs. One day, something went wrong, and the civilization at Tikal ended.

On that trip to Guatemala, I toured the capital, took my early morning walks, bought my trinkets and enjoyed a land that had the best that nature has to offer. But for the last 20 years, most of the news has been about bandits, rebels, murder. For 20 years, something has been wrong in Guatemala.

Current Events - Last week a bomb exploded in Northern Ireland. Protestants and Catholics... this is especially confusing for Americans; to us, those Protestants are indistinguishable from from Catholics. What do they think of our AME, Envangelical, Charismatic, Spirit filled, Southern Baptist churches... not to mention the cross over to Voudoun that sometimes happens ... but maybe we'd better not get into that. Last week, something went wrong in Northern Ireland.

What will it be like? A collapse and depopulation as in Tikal? 20 years of low intensity conflict as in Guatemala? Northern Ireland?

I don't know... but you might want to research SO/LIC, Special Operations/Low Intensity Conflict. This could be part of our new world order.

----------- What can you do? -----------

The first thing is, don't be part of the problem. Prepare to go off-grid for three months, food, heat, light, water. Last week we spoke with people who live in Florida. After a hurricane came through, they were without power and other services for 6 months. There was one phone in their community and people were assigned a date and time when they could make their 10 minute phone call. They never want to experience anything like that again. They now have months of food, water, and fuel for their generators ( plural ) stockpiled. Oh... and remember, that hurricane did not go though Chicago, New York, Pittsburg, Yokohama, Melbourne or Athens. It just went though a part of Florida and it took 6 months to restore services.

Once you solve the three month problem. Increase your inventory.

Do you have a plan to work within your community? Do you know who will need your help most, who has a heart problem, who needs special care, what would you like to be able to do, when it happens.

While making those preparations... keep telling yourself that it may not be necessary, that you're just doing your duty for civil emergency and you really expect the problem to last for a few days, a couple weeks, at most... While you are doing all this, make some plans for serious problems.

If you have to abandon ship, if you have to run for it, where will you run to? Do you have a family farm, hunting cabin, or vacation home? Are there supplies prestaged there? Supplies sealed in 6 gallon gasketed plastic bins. Do you have 500 rounds of .22LR and an AR7 in plastic drain pipe and buried in the back yard? What about medicine, fuel, matches, knives, tools, clothing, batteries. The list is endless, cover the essentials first.

What can you do to help rebuild? Not because someone said you should... but because you'd like to live in a functional world.

If you're going to be part of the solution, the first thing is, don't be part of the problem. Don't be one of those standing in line for the scarce Federal handouts, swiping the Solar panels that the highway department puts alongside the road to power their emergency call phones; buying your supplies too late, if you do it now, they have time to produce more.

And don't give up because the job seems too big, because no one seems to believe you, because you're afraid, because your brother-in-law, the know-it-all who runs his mouth at family gatherings, points at his ear
and makes circular motions. He's wrong, he'll find out. This is not a matter of faith.

Start with your Bug Out Bag. It's just a spare set of clothes, some money, food, a flashlight, maybe a sewing kit, a pocket knife, a P38, important addresses, a pen and paper, what you might need in a sudden emergency. You should be able to stock it without spending a penny.

Similarly with your house and 3-6 months store of supplies. You should have those items anyway. If you are buying non-perishables on sale, building an inventory will save money in the long run. If you make spagetti once a week, purchase caselots at a warehouse, it's cheaper that way.

But the most important part of this is to work with others; you can be a lone eccentric, hiding in the woods, jumping at every sound or you can work within your community, support your city's civil emergency program,
help with neighborhood watch, help identify potential problems and work for solutions.

--------- Team starting up out west -----------

Last week, I received a series of emails from a worried guy. Later I received an email from his pal and I realized that they are in pretty good shape. They're not in a major Northeastern city. With two of them, they have a much better chance. They have time to put plans into motion. They have the nucleus of a team.

This is not about spending big bucks, this is about intelligent preparations, and working with others.

You need someone you trust at your back, someone to keep watch while you rest... this will not be like anything we've ever seen before. This is a discontinuity in time, a peak event, a shift in reality and all of a sudden, at a minute after December 31, 1999 23:59PM, the rules change.

Even if Y2K didn't take down the computers, there will be unexpected and disturbing events. The wine and champaigne producers are expecting to be sold out months before Y2K... stock up now, they say. If a
significantly larger than normal percentage of the population will be drunk, what happens...

---------- SHARE/Guide --------------------

Tuesday, I spent 4 hours with IBM S/390 and Fundamental Software at the Technical Support Conference in Washington DC. IBM had their new, soon to be announced P390E, a 7.5 MIPS desktop mainframe, on display. The previous version was about 3 MIPS, my OPEN/370 is a 2 MIPS box, an IBM 3083 the FAA's old machine is a 5 MIPS water cooled mainframe. The P390E had both parallel channels and multiple ESCON channels. Ah IBM, heavy on the IO.

At one point, IBM S/390 and Fundamental Software were discussingtechnical issues of small mainframes and I was fortunate to be able to listen in.

The IBM S/390 people included a person who had been working on small S/370's for 17 years and was part of the XT/370 engineering team. They discussed weaknesses of the Unix file system, IBM's ESCON, DASD
optimization, bus issues bandwidth, MVS licensing... both the P390E and the Fundamental Software two cpu box qualify for Entry Systems Licensing, a one time, very heavily discounted purchase price for OS/390.

Fundamental Software was running OS/390 in a battery powered notebook and on an experimental quad box ( an unbranded Intel manufactured engineering reference machine with 4 not yet available Pentium-Pro 400
mHz CPUs. ) The quad box was running two instantiations of OS/390. FSI whispered that they bench the quad box at a group 35.

They have software emulated CTCA and can transmit channel data across the internet for S/390 distributed operations.

I spoke with and got literature from several Y2K product vendors. My sense of it was, the Y2K product business is not doing well.

I didn't meet any c.s.y2k'ers but I did talk to one person. I got more partial solutions to my
3330-11 problem.

------------- CCCC -----------------

Don't forget the realaudio broadcast from

NOVA Y2K meets Wednesday Aug 18th, check with Jay Goltier.

This Day 500 special WRP has lots of clueless comments from cory. About all I can add is an apology to the newsgroup and my readers...

What for? I don't know but I'm sure I've offended someone... well, actually, the point of these writings is to offend and cause people to question their assumptions, to jar them out of their comfort zone and stand up for themselves.

Unfortunately, sometimes I get carried away and lean on people too much, so if I've offended anyone, I apologize... Of course, if I haven't offended you, well, I'll try harder to needle you next time. With 500
days left, we don't have time to snooze...

cory hamasaki 500 days, 12,000 hours, 135 days until the Jo Anne Effect.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:07
rhody (LEASE RATES have remained unchanged for both gold and silver) ID#411440:
as of this morning, while gold has firmed a dollar ( 3dollars over the
past 3 days ) . Don't get your hopes up. IMHO, the lease rates
must rise before, or at the same time as spot gold rises in order
to signal the end of this bear. The good news is that there is
little sign of a renewed short attack at these low prices, and
producer hedging seems low. The consensus seems to be growing that
we are at or near the bottom.

We may not be if China devalues. Just what gold needs, another wave
of 'flight to quality' ( retch ) in the USD.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:06
Goldteck () ID#431200:
^This is_ a country where a dual morality, hypocrisy and nonsense have been allowed to dominate politics and the mass media for years, and this doesn't make it look so reliable as a world policeman, the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet said.



President Clinton's confession prompted snickers in Europe, concern in the Mideast, jokes in Latin America - and not a word from the Vatican.

In France, the sedate and sober Le Monde newspaper ran a front-page cartoon yesterday of a teary Clinton apologizing to the Statue of Liberty with his hand on her shoulder.

Take your hand off me! Liberty angrily responds.

A cartoon in Italy's leading daily, Corriere della Sera, showed Clinton raising his hand but looking down his pants as he said, I swear on everything I hold most dear.

Others in Europe expressed sharply mixed emotions.

One doesn't know whether to laugh or cry ... It is suicidal, Paris' Le Figaro editorialized.

In this instance, the American president played with words as if, oral or not, sex wasn't always sex.

German media executives said they would never cover a high official's sex scandal unless the person made it public.

Several opinion-makers wondered whether the scandal would impair Washington's ability to continue as the world's only superpower.

^This is_ a country where a dual morality, hypocrisy and nonsense have been allowed to dominate politics and the mass media for years, and this doesn't make it look so reliable as a world policeman, the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet said.

Britain's The Sun, which called Clinton a serial philanderer, said: A world that has no respect for the leader of America has no fear of America either.

In the Mideast, there was concern about Clinton's ability to command respect abroad.

The president of the United States, the defender of the free world, has simply stopped functioning, Israeli commentator Hami Shalev wrote in Maariv.

A spokesman for Yasser Arafat said Palestinian officials were worried about whether Clinton could continue his role in the Middle East peace process.

The peace process has been paying the price of a shaken president and the diversion of attention, said spokeswoman Hanan Ashrawi.

In Latin America, the scandal was given prominent attention - but treated as a joke.

Argentina's Clarin, the world's top-selling Spanish-language newspaper, ran a front-page cartoon of Clinton in jacket and tie, black stockings and red stilettos.

In Peru, where the scandal overshadowed the appointment of a new prime minister and a possible border war with Ecuador, the newspaper Ojo's headline read: Clinton says he only made Monica randy.

But in the Vatican's Osservatore Romano, Clinton's grand-jury testimony and televised mea culpa was a non-story.

The semiofficial newspaper covered a wide range of international topics - including the Russian ruble devaluation and Niger's political turmoil - but nothing at all about the sex scandal in the world's most powerful nation.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 09:00


WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton is standing by her man because she is committed to her marriage and loves her husband even though he cheated on her and lied, her press secretary said yesterday.

Mrs. Clinton sent press secretary Marsha Berry out to tell reporters she forgives her husband and believes in this marriage.

But the tensions were obvious as the First Lady - eyes hidden by dark glasses - left on vacation with her husband. Daughter Chelsea walked between them like a buffer, holding each parent's hand.

When Mrs. Clinton climbed onto Air Force One, bound for Martha's Vineyard, the president reached out - as if to usher her aboard. She appeared to pull away, giving him the cold shoulder.

It was the Clintons' first public appearance since the president's belated admission Monday that he had sex with Monica Lewinsky, then lied to his wife and the nation for seven months.

Clearly this is not the best day in Mrs. Clinton's life, Berry said, adding that the First Lady learned the truth only over the weekend.

She was misled. She learned the nature of his testimony over the weekend, Berry added, using the same euphemism - misled - that the president used for lying.

But Mrs. Clinton is committed to her marriage and loves her husband and daughter very much and believes in the president and her love for him is compassionate and steadfast, she added.

Asked if Mrs. Clinton feels angry, her press secretary replied: She's a human being. Like I say, this is not an easy time.

Berry refused to say whether Chelsea forgives her dad.

Chelsea seemed far more relaxed than her parents.

Republican strategist Eva Pusateri Campbell said: It's very telling that ^Hillary_ released a statement through her press secretary rather than appearing on TV herself. I think it's the same reason she's wearing dark glasses - she doesn't want to face anyone.

But it's weird, she said.

One night he says this is nobody's business but ours - and the next day she makes it everybody's business by announcing she's standing by her man.

A Democratic strategist predicted that, if Mrs. Clinton really wants to save her husband, a written statement won't do.

She may need to go on TV again. She may need to humiliate herself further, the strategist said.

But another Democratic strategist said: I don't think she's ready to do that yet, and I don't think she should. I think it would be better if she waits a little while, because I'm afraid it's going to get worse.

Some analysts said Mrs. Clinton's unusual public announcement - surely a first for a First Lady - was a bid to convince voters that if she doesn't care that her husband cheated, they shouldn't either.

That would be a replay of Mrs. Clinton's role in 1992 when she said she believed her husband's denial that he had sex with Gennifer Flowers. The president later admitted he had.

It doesn't work now because he cheated on her, but he lied to all of us, contended Republican pollster Kellyanne Fitzpatrick.

Instead of Hillary as policymaker or co-president, we now have Hillary as victim. It's the worst day ever for feminists - their icon has been reduced to a helpless and willing victim of a philandering husband.

Mrs. Clinton has been virtually in hiding for the past few weeks as Lewinsky cut a tell-all deal with Sexgate investigator Kenneth Starr and turned over a dark blue dress she reportedly said was stained with Clinton's semen.

That's in sharp contrast to the First Lady's high profile last January when Sexgate first exploded and she went on TV to defend her husband, deny the charges and blame it all on a vast right-wing conspiracy.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:55
Suspicious (I have consulted my crystal ball for year 2000 and found) ID#287312:
( 1 ) Gore has selected Hillary as his VP running mate for re-election.

( 2 ) Y2K was a hoax 1/1/2000 was business as usual.

( 3 ) Dow hits 15,000 mid year.

( 4 ) Bill Clinton becomes Secretary General of the U.N. after Cofi Annan
commits suiside in Ft. Marcy park.

( 5 ) Jane Fonda's artifical stuff falls off and she looks just like Henry.

( 6 ) It was finally discovered that the blue dress actually belonged to
Hillary and it was Janet Reno's body fluids on it.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:24
vronsky ( Monetary Smoke and Mirrors - Devaluation in Russia) ID#427357:

Dr Paul Hein has done it again. He employs simple common-sense logic to define the word devaluation. The value loss of a currency is seen in a new light.

The deterioration of the ruble is generating a lot of solicited and unsolicited advice. Much of it concerns devaluation, which the Russians are, so far, resisting. After all, Thailand, Indonesia, and South Korea devaluated, and their financial situations are still miserable.

So how can you devalue modern money, like the ruble? You can't. What is meant is not devaluation, but an altered exchange rate.

Dr. Hein provides solid argument that simple devaluation of the rouble will NOT be the cure-all to Russia's myriad problems.

As usual you need delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting the URL to the Internet:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:24
Tantalus__A (blooper : Then comes Y2K) ID#374204:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:23
Tantalus__A (blooper : starting to see the light about the coming darkness) ID#374204:
DJIA @ 6666.66 on 9/9/99. VERY BAD JUJU!

Guess I'm bearish.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:22
mozel (@The Shadow Government) ID#153102:
The true shadow government is the lawyers, the people who explain the law to you for a fee. Basically, they now do nothing more than tell you what to do to be legal. They work for government on commission.

It is impossible to force men to be honest.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:21
Charleston Gold Bug (GC8Q) ID#344389:
$287.60 UP $2.30

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:19
Charleston Gold Bug (GC8Z) ID#344389:
$290.60 UP 1.60

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 08:05
rhody (@ John Disney: I was wondering if you had any idea of HARMONY'S) ID#411440:
exposure to hedging.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 07:50
FOX-MAN__A (John Disney; Isn't that what you get, by doin' it on the Oval office carpet?) ID#288186:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 07:46
Gianni Dioro__A (The Future Ain't What it Used to Be) ID#384350:
Remember Sunday night, China down 8%, The Russian Rouble devalued by a third, and globex down heavy, all in light of Klinton's testimony the following day. Well perhaps a bit of PPT in London and NY saved the day. The dow having made 5 waves down, looked like it was doing its ABC, and the market did manage to hold and continued its counter rally. A lot of buying came into the market these last 2 days and perhaps is running out of steam. IMO, we are now finishing up the C phase of the counter rally. I see resistance at around 8800. Today could very well be a wreversal Wednesday as Avid Trader likes to call 'em.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 07:38
Silverbaron (FINANCIAL ARMAGEDDON?) ID#289357:

Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
August 19, 1998

Japan and China Brace for New Banking Crises ( see article below )


1. Japs sell US Treasuries to strengthen Yen
2. China Devalues
3. Japan and China float new bond issues
4. Debt market is overwhelmed with new supply
5. Yen-carry trade comes apart, forcing more US treasuries sales
6. Rates rise in US
7. Major shock to derivatives markets
8. US stock market comes unhinged - wave 3 down


What happens to gold?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 07:30
John Disney__A (St Helena/Harmony) ID#24135:
For Jims ..
Dont worry about St helena .. They went ex -
dividend aug 10.. paid 2 rands .. so a drop of
$0.32 would be in order. Harmony just goes down
because its in wave 5 ( nearing the end ) .
Just bought some more of both.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 07:10
jims (To Disney) ID#252391:
What do you know about Harmony and St Helena ( SGOLY ) both have been falling recently while the So Af. gold index has been rallying, al beit just a bit.?

Notice the conversation on this board has taken a shift to discussion of the stock market to the exclusion of gold and silver. Why not ..I've noticed that the metals have pretty much stopped moving. Plt and PD seem so infreguently quoted that I can't seperate the old from the current, the correct for the error.

Don't sell a quite market short!! Well this one ( the metals ) is quiet enough but its going to need something out of left field to get it going as nothing available to it so far has worked.

$5.25 is still my trigger on silver, 100.5 on the $ index and a couple of points lower on the bonds. Looking at 1130 on the S&P as the top.

Seems we're all lining up behind Blooper and his call of Sept 3rd as the next turn - maybe he follows Arch Crawford. Or maybe we are not lining up behind Blooper its just that he repeats his position so often I just think we all agree.

Frankly, I'd believe anything but I rather think that domestic generated and international flight money will keep this market up longer than the bears think, and keep it from falling as far as they think.

Anyway, about HGMNCY and SGOLY, Mr. Disney.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 06:41

Global Intelligence Update
Red Alert
August 19, 1998

Japan and China Brace for New Banking Crises

According to Agence France Presse, Taku Yamasaki, a senior official of the
Japanese ruling Liberal Democratic Party, told Indonesia's President on
Tuesday that Japan's economy would face its most serious crisis within a
week. The story was also carried by the Japanese Kyodo and Jiji news
services. While Yamasaki did not specify what crisis was brewing, he is
quoted as having said that I contacted very important persons in the
Japanese government, and they said that they decided not to let ailing
major banks go bankrupt to avoid negatively influencing the economic
situation in the world, especially in Asia. An obvious inference to be
drawn is that some major Japanese banks will be facing a major cash flow
problem next week and may be unable to meet obligations. If this is the
case, the Japanese government is sending out a signal in financially
devastated Indonesia, telling the rest of Asia that the Japanese government
is prepared to bail out the banks, preventing bankruptcy.

Yamasaki's reassurance in anticipation of a crisis that has not yet
surfaced is more chilling than calming. Clearly, senior officials in the
Japanese government are aware of an impending crisis of substantial
proportions, such as the bankruptcy of some of Japan's major banking
institutions, and are trying to soften the shock. This is not the usual
Japanese style. Denial until the last possible moment has been the normal
operating procedure in Japan. Yamasaki appears to be trying to do damage
control in the ASEAN countries, attempting to reassure them and to limit
the effects of the crisis. As economic crises have become the norm in
Japan, Yamasaki's unusual warning indicates that Japan is facing a new
crisis of truly impressive magnitude.

Perhaps part of Japan's concerns were events in China. On Monday, China's
Ministry of Finance announced that they were issuing 270 million yuan
( about $32 billion at the official rate ) worth of special, 30-year, yuan-
denominated bonds, carrying an annual coupon of 7.2 percent. The purpose
of these bonds was to supply capital to the Industrial and Commercial Bank
of China, the Agricultural Bank of China, the Construction Bank of China,
and the Bank of China. The bonds were not to be sold to the general
public. Wang Wuhong, a Finance Ministry spokesman, pointed out that the
Ministry could not guarantee that the bond issue will enable the four banks
to meet the eight percent capital adequacy ratio set by the International
Bank of Settlements. According to Agence France Presse, these banks had
capital bases of four to five percent and at least 25 percent of their
loans were non-performing. The banks are also being pressured by the
government to write off bad loans, which involves foreclosure and other
aggressive collection efforts. As in other Asian countries, this action is
difficult to execute because of political and social implications.

At the same time, the People's Bank of China issued a circular urging all
banks to separate themselves from non-financial entities they owned. This
is a crucial step in saving the banking system, since there is a tendency
to support unprofitable linked businesses with favorable loans that are not
economically justified. This linkage between banks and non-financial
businesses has been a key element in the Asian meltdown, since banks'
irrational lending practices have undermined their stability. Of course,
this circular comes about five years too late. With a conservative count
of 25 percent non-performing loans, the damage has already been done.

Not surprisingly, China's Xinhua News Agency reported that Beijing banks
reported a 121.7 percent rise in sales of foreign currencies in the first
half of this year. Thus, we have the key elements of the Asian economic
crisis now clearly in view in China. First, Chinese banks cannot meet the
minimal IBS standards, even with massive infusions of capital. Second,
their non-performing loans stand at 25 percent. Third, the government is
trying, far too late, to get banks to sell off capital-draining assets.
Fourth, the government is trying to get banks to write off bad loans.
Finally, the price of the yuan is kept stable while the public is buying
foreign currency.

The Japanese and the Chinese are tied together now. If the Chinese were to
devalue suddenly, economies throughout Asia, including Japan, would be
devastated. If the Japanese weakened any further, the Chinese would be
forced to devalue. China has been warning Japan about this for the past
few weeks. The Japanese can hear the creaking sounds of China buckling
under the strain. The Chinese see an uncontrolled plummet in Japan's
economy, and are scrambling to do damage control, albeit too little and
much too late.

We believe that the next two weeks will be critical in the Asian crisis.
Japanese banks seem about to break. The Japanese government is going to
forced to save them. They will need to borrow money on the international
market to do so. That means that they will need to strengthen the yen. Of
course, strengthening the yen involves selling dollars, which undermines
their ability to borrow money. The pressure on China will increase. China
is trying to get its house in order, hoping to stabilize its banks in
anticipation of the crunch. Of course, their own banking crisis is far
greater than a $30 billion bond issue can handle.

A question arises: the Chinese have been defending the yuan with currency
controls. If Japan is facing its most serious crisis yet next week, is
there any way they can navigate through the treacherous waters without
imposing some sort of currency controls of their own? Given the magnitude
of their problems and their unwillingness to impose genuine, wrenching
controls, we are beginning to wonder if there is any way out, short of such
controls. And with the two largest Asian economies having controlled
currencies, what other Asian countries would follow suit? We note that
Yamasaki was in Indonesia when he made his dire prediction. Even if the
Japanese decide not to impose currency controls, the mere threat should
achieve what Japan wants most -- an American solution. The U.S. is
committed to the current monetary arrangements. If Yamasaki's crisis is as
serious as he is implying, the threat may not be as farfetched in a week as
it seems today.

That is speculation. What is not speculation is that the Japanese are
worried about something, or at least want the world to think they are
worried. We think it is a combination of a Chinese banking crisis and
Japanese bank bankruptcies, converging on each other. And that is a
radical event requiring radical solutions that leave Japan's internal
social and political arrangements intact. We are open to other
suggestions, but Japan does not seem to have many options.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 06:34
sharefin (Jin) ID#284255:
Try some of these charts

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 06:17
John Disney__A (Our Boy Bill is SHOOK ..) ID#24135:
He may do something RASH..

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:37
Donald (Signs that Japanese bad loan problems has reached a critical stage.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:34
Auric (Who Cares?_A) ID#255151:

Look, if you are like me, and have ridden Gold all the way down to $280 and less, don't sell it now! For cryin' out loud, keep a hold of that Gold!: )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:33
Fred(@Vienna)__A () ID#185448:
Who cares

Man - you better check out, if a not-taking-action based upon your knowledge could trigger any kind of legal responsibility. Take care!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:33
Donald (The Fed is still on a streak; adding reserves to the banking system daily.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:30
Auric (Who Cares_A) ID#255151:

Megads, man! Don't sell your Gold!!: ) )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:21
Who Cares?__A (I don't really care) ID#242328:

if I have your blessig or not. : )

*I* was right in November. : ) Greenspan ADMITTED to propping
the whole system up, and he prevented a crash.

It's just plain bad odds to bet against him.

I finally had to sell off my gold, not only did I need the cash, but
I've been taking a beating on it for... let's see, yup, three years. : )

I'm much more interested in being right these days. : ) I took
a job last month with a small startup company that received
$16M in venture capital from Goldman Sachs. I have an equity
share in it that might get me back on top. I'm betting with the
big guys now, not against them . : )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:21
Donald (World Gold Council says demand is up 50%; price will recover) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:16
blooper (Who Cares) ID#207145:
Sorry to hear about yor finances. This does not qualify you to be the acting economist tho.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:15
Donald (China floods leave tens of millions homeless; industrial heartland devastated.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:13
blooper (Where a man puts his money says a lot) ID#207145:
I say he has to let the market work. Your scenario would wreck the US economy.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:12
Who Cares?__A (My savings are pretty much wiped out now) ID#242328:

Up until a two years ago, I had almost $100K net worth.

I don't much give a f* anymore now. I'm definitely doing a
twelve step program on being honest anymore. It's just a good
way for guys like Clinton to screw you over. For the past seven
months I've been working for a company that was an
unbelievable fraud.

It was so messed up, and nothing added up, that I finally
got into their financial and personnel files, where I discovered
that my boss's credentials were completely faked. The financial
statements, there were THREE. One set for potential investors
and new hires, one set for existing employees, and the real set. : )

Unbelievable. Almost a 10:1 lie on total net worth and income.

I've been absolutely amazed at how much fraud, deceiit and
trickery I've come across in the past three years, with the
net result that I've been running in the red for two solid years.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:06
blooper (WHO CARES) ID#207145:
You are talking. Where is your money. Is it where your mouth is?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:04
Donald (Japan says it is ready for a major bank crisis; no need for the jitters.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:04
Who Cares?__A (Immaterial) ID#242328:

It doesn't matter where Greenspan's money is.

He will still try. IMHO, he has a damn good computer model of
the U.S. economy running, and I thiink he can buy us one more

Beside, the whole financial deal is sure looking a lot like Harry
Dent predicted.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 05:01
blooper (Who Cares) ID#207145:
AGs money is in short term Treasuries. I don't think HE thinks he can keep it up. As reported on CNBC.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:59
Donald (Devaluation did not fix it. Russian ruble still sliding.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:58
Ersel (@ Indiana Auric @ the temple of doom and gloom) ID#230376:

Have been watching S&P on globex. Believe APH got his fill on short S&P and it's beendropping all nite. Looks like a down up down flat day today. As clinton goes so goes the stock mkt. No matter what he says or does from now on it can only be negative . It aint over but the fat lady is la la ing ( :- )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:56
Donald (Russia begs Japan for emergency loan before the end of the month.) ID#26793:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:54
Who Cares?__A (Greenspan can keep it going...) ID#242328:

Still a bull market.

Flooding the world with money will have the short-term effect of
driving down interest rates again.

Personally, I will say ( as I have been for almost a year ) , I believe
the goal of old Uncle Sam is to get within striking distance of Y2K,
and then blame the crash and subsequent loss of savings on
computers, thus necessitating the need for massive monitoring
and government regulation. : )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:50
blooper (Some people make money, some people are right.) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:49
Who Cares?__A (CBS Polls) ID#242328:
MSNBC is showing the opposite numbers.

61% say Clinton is unfit for office.

Try reading the alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater newsgroup

Extremely funny and interested for the past two days.

Even has actual congressional testimony by Freeh and LaBelle
about Clinton and Gore under investigation by the FBI for the
Chinese campaign contributions. : )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:48
blooper (Envy) ID#207145:
Thanks....... You would not believe the cash laying around. Hug.e amounts in money market mutual funds. It doesn't make sense, it just happens. Some Joe Sixpacks see a buying opportunity after a 10% correction. I see this whole thing as easy money, then a bear trap.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:47
Envy (@Auric) ID#219363:
Sweet! Now if we could just get everyone to believe ...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:45
Auric (World Stock Market Comment) ID#255151:


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:45
Goldbug23 (CBS polls) ID#432148:
Polls can pretty much produce whatever results the pollsters want. CBS station KNX in LA is saying the latest poll shows 71% approve Clinton's job performance and three quarters say they wish the Starr investigation would be dropped. I think they are fabricating this just as BC does so well. Well, used to do so well maybe. ;- )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:41
blooper (Welcome JIN.) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:39
blooper (Sorry this doesn't fit in with the goom and doom. I just had to lighten up.) ID#207145:
By the end of the month, I will be a big time gloom and doomer. This is always where the money is to be made. I expect a retracement Monday or so. Without that I would be wrong. Must have a higher high. I am not far away on principle and enjoy your posts.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:35
Envy (@newtron) ID#219363:
Yep, you scared me there with 72 *smile*.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:33
blooper (newtron) ID#207145:
2 back to back triple days. Well, what can I say. There is a crap pot full o, money on the sidelines. Tom hell with the experts. I don't argue with cash.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:32
newtron (Ersel, much thanks for that reference) ID#335184:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:26
Envy (Jin) ID#219363:
I'd be extremly interested in hearing your thoughts as well, I think we would all feel priviledged to get your perspective on things.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:25
Envy (@newtron) ID#219363:
I'm glad I don't have to make your choice - deciding whether to sell now, or hold them and avoid missing a big drop, if there is one. Like I said, my choice was easy *grin*. I, myself, may purchase some more on this uptrend in anticipation of a down move, but I need to figure out what I'm going to buy first, and decide how much I'm willing to part with.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:22
blooper (Newtron) ID#207145:
There isn't a lot of difference. Then we are in total agreement. Sidelines money is huge. Joe Sixpack is piling in too, seeing a 10% correction. It is a BEARTRAP. Hell of a selloff off the top.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:22
Ersel (@newtron) ID#230376:

Maybe this can help

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:21
Goldbug23 (Jin - good to see you posting) ID#432148:
You might try this one and hit Yahoo - Finance Home near bottom for good news articles in many areas including International.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:20
Envy (@Blooper) ID#219363:
Well, if you're buying what newtron is buying ( a good bet in my opinion ) you can get a price quote by entering LSY for the S&P, or maybe CCI for Citicorp, etc. For specific stocks, just enter the ticker.

That gives you the prices as say 1 1/2 meaning 1.5 multiplied by 100$US, or 150$US for the contract. If it goes up to 3, then you doubled your money, minus fees. That is, you doubled it if you're wise enough to call your broker and tell him/her to sell that is *grin*. Then again, if you sell them and take a profit and the market drops like a rock, you're still left wanting. Like newtron said, it's cool because when you pay for them, that's all the money you have to pay - they either become valuable, or they expire worthless ( or they become a little bit valuable like mine did but not enough to cover the brokerage fee )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:19
Auric (JIN) ID#255151:

For world stock markets--

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:19
blooper (The target will be 9600, perhaps a melt up.) ID#207145:
Hear me now and believe me later.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:18
newtron (Auric Any new high from here would send every body but Bloop back to the drawing board. Ithink your ) ID#335184:
statement is very accurate !

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:16
blooper (2 days of triple numbers...Everyone laughed when I said rally.) ID#207145:
Soon you will see a day of multiple hundreds to the upside. The money is flowing in.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:12
Auric (JIN) ID#255151:

Glad to see you at Kitco! I would be happy to make a comment on world stock markets. First of all though, I would like to hear a few posts from you on how things are in South East Asia. Your posts are more valuable than you know.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:10
newtron (Envy) ID#335184:
TYPO SHOULD have read : Last Thurs. it traded @ over $2 A 100% + move !

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:10
blooper (Newtron) ID#207145:
I told you. Sideline money is responsible my friend. And you ain't seen nothin yet. Although I expect 3 days of pull back before a real blast up.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:05
blooper (Envy) ID#207145:
What is envolved in buying puts on the SP500 on the American Ex.?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:03
JIN (Help!World markets with comments and analysist!) ID#206358:
Would be great anyone can show me the site of world stocks markets,preferable with comments,analysist and forecast ect.
Your help is much appreaciated.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:03
newtron (Envy) ID#335184:
LSYXR is a dec put on the S&P @ strike 900 = high risk, high reward, deep out of the money as the S&P is approx at 1100 today off from 1280 high near 7/20. I'm betting that the entire S&P will recede. The further away from thev money you buy the higher the risk/reward. Today, First Call stated that 3rd Q earnings will very probably disappoint @ no better than the 1st half of the year while Wall Street analysts are still forecasting strength of earnings & selling this tommierott to their retail clients ! He also said that there would likly be further downward revisions based on the current foreseeable trend. Yet, the brokerage houses have managed to get this rally off the ground ! I strongly suspected that this rally was a pure act of USG bogus intervention & Manipulation designed to show support for the President who as it turns out is probably mortally wounded pollitically speaking.
There for I did not participate, except to raise cash by selling the only remaining non-gold eqity I owned & I came close to adding to my S&P puts, but was prevented by cooler/wiser heads looking for a better entry point.
Here's the deal : big bang for bucks compared to near money options with larger premiums. Like a penney stock you get more contracts too !@ say $1.60 one contract costs $160 . I@ 7/20 it traded at .75 & last thurs. it was at over 72, a 1005 = move for those unlike me who were nimble enough to make that call With the option your downside is fixed at 100% of your investment but your money is extremly leveraged, unlike shorting a stock where the leverage is limited by the degree of margin & the risk is unlimited !
Believe me when I tell you that I am not qualified to give others advice on options or any investment, but I am always wiling to share my
thinking .

Vios con Dios & Good Hunting !



Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:03
messy79__A (My input) ID#346209:
On the S&P we go up alittle more to 1122 then down hard to 980-1000 level by 9/13/98, then crash UP in Oct ( 1998 ) to 1200 + level. It will be violent and tough for bulls and bears, but good for traders who anticipate and not react. Regards.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 04:02
blooper (Auric) ID#207145:
Yes, technically. But the market would perhaps then crash. If not then, it would in October. Everyone would know to sell. This market is the strongest in history. There is a great deal of money on the sidelines. Uninformed investors see a 10% correction. The market is oversold. Also, this market will not do to suit me or you. Or the experts.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:58
Envy (@Blooper) ID#219363:
My call too, here's hoping we're right. Of course, this is all still just play money, it's nice sitting on a bunch of CASH too *grin*. I would just kick myself, however, if we saw a nice ( overdue ) decline and I hadn't played something on it. If it all goes up, well, that's okay too I guess, but there's still a lot of downside potential and I'm willing to make bets on it.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:57
Auric (Bear Market) ID#255151:

If the Dow should rally to a new high--that by definition would mean that we are NOT in a bear market at this time. Would also mean the Dow Theory sell signal was wrong. Is that an accurate statement?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:54
blooper (Envy) ID#207145:
Then don't worry. But you will see a little pullback then one hell of a bear rally.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:52
blooper (Auric) ID#207145:
Prices are inflated. Profits are deflated. Much of the world is in depression. The Prez is a criminal. And denver won. Yes youre damn right we are in a bear market. We are into a secondary rally. A bear market rally. It may go a lot higher. Lot of money on the sidelines. If not a lot then 8888.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:48
Envy (@Blooper) ID#219363:
Nah, not messing me up, as long as it's a rally in a decline *grin* and not the continuation of the Bull-from-hell.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:45
blooper (Cash on the sidelines) ID#207145:
This rally will probably play out at the end of the month. Precisely I think by the 3rd of September at the latest, one could go short at the perfect time. You want to play it safe get out on the 1st. The first of the month is very bullish.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:42
Auric (Back Home From Chicago) ID#255151:

Had a fabulous day. Did not hear one piece of news today about the DJIA or Clinton. Have
not read Kitco since noon either. Watched the Cubs beat St. Louis and No. 25, McGuire, go 0 for 4. I'm thinking this is a bear market
because a ) the Cubs won, and b ) The Broncos
won Superbowl XX...whatever. The superbowl
indicator has actually been quite accurate in its calls. Hell, I can't read charts, might
as well forecast based upon some concept I
can understand!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:39
blooper (Envy) ID#207145:
Whats the matter, is this rally messing you up?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:33
Who Cares?__A (Clinton's Speech) ID#242328:

Clinton's speech looked half-assed and angry because it was.

According to, dang it, I can't find it anymore. I thought it was at
the Drudge site... but anyway, according to somebody, somewhere,
who seemed to know..

Clinton's advisors strongly advised against railing out against Starr,
but Clinton insisted.

Check out Drudge for other interesting info, like the rumor that
Clinton was wearing a tie given as a gift from Monica as a big
middle finger to America. : )

And get ready for the Monica abortion story, and the lubricated cigars.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:29
Envy (@Newtron) ID#219363:
Before the downturn I bought puts against individual stocks, in the future and out-of-the-money. I don't have the option of selling because mine never made enough to cover the fee, which is why I'm wondering what you guys are buying - I'm concerned I didn't see much of an increase on a fairly significant drop. So I'm considering short, but I don't want to get burned - but I also don't want to be right and still not make anything on puts.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:23
newtron (Envy) ID#335184:
I am a BEAR. I believe this market will not come convincingly close to making new hihgs for 8 to 15 years. Until it does, I am petrified of not holdig some short position to capture this moivement, but listening to numerous respected investors on this & other channels it appears that the first down leg is over & this relief rally is for real & internals & support accros the nyse was there too . I stated last night that the rally was not a relief rally but a silly sucker rally with unconvincing credentials ! I also thought The First Groper's performace was extremly BEARISH so I did not sell into this rally today, but now regret it. I thought there was goiung to be considerable down before real retracement & now it appears I was wrong.
The question is should I hold out & wait for the big swing down or should I get cute & liquidate here & look for a short term top say Fri. or Mon.
truth is I'm sort of chicken to let go of my Puts, because I suspect that the turn will be breath taking & sharp & I don't want to miss it !

I like the Dec leaps Puts LSYXR trading at approx. $1.60 . But I am a total amature & you should not take advice from me !

Good Luck & God Speed !

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:21
blooper (This is too early in the month for a flame out.) ID#207145:
End of month things start to get sticky at higher levels. Much higher. The shoe shine boy will be in by the 3rd.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:19
sharefin (RJ - IS P'D off) ID#284255:
Salty has been ISP'd
Sitting in front of his cyber screen muttering away to himself.

That boy need to express himself - indeedy.

Not a cookie monster this time.
Rather his providor.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:17
blooper (Sharefin) ID#207145:
In 2 or 3 days there will probably be a retracement of 50% or so.If we get this the market will go higher than 9000. If there is no retrac. then 8888.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:12
sharefin (Neutron) ID#284255:
I'm not calling for prices or levels.

Rather just watching the ebb and flow.
Plus the momentum - velocity plus volatility.

What I am seeing is a quickening of this momentum.
I think short, sharp and sweet.
I'd guess a very short explosive rally .

I would not be holding shorts,
But rather, accumulating them as the price rises.

I will have my eye glued to the swing through this rally,
As I intend to get short at the top this time.

Will keep you posted on the swing.
And post the graph here when noticable changes happen.

I think we'll see explosive movements.
But of a very short time frame.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:06
Envy (Newtron, Sharefin) ID#219363:
Re: Newtron, your selling of Dec Puts and buy at the turn - could you elaborate on what your position would be at the turn ? I asked earlier but didn't get much response, curious what yours and sharefin's thoughts are on the subject. What will you be buying options against specifically ?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:05
RJ (..... Salty @ BBG .....) ID#411259:

Big Bad Golden..... What?
Boy, Better Get Goin' Gold ( BBGGG? )
Beneath Barter, Guy?
Bodacious Balls of Gold?
Bereaved Boinker's Grudge? ( Lewinsky )
Blow By Government?
Buy Blow Government?
Buggery Before Gold?


Buy Buy Gold


Bye Bye Gold

Righty O


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:01
Envy (BOT Approves Electronic Trading) ID#219363:
CHICAGO ( AP ) -- Chicago Board of Trade members took what many consider to be the first step in silencing their raucous trading floor by voting to electronically trade financial contracts during daytime hours. In a move that could radically change how stock and commodities are bought and sold in the future, exchange members on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved the plan to begin side-by-side electronic and open outcry trading of futures and options on 30-year Treasury bonds.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 03:01
newtron (Sharefin- ) ID#335184:
How much more S&P retracement do you anticipate ? How much advance warning do you believe you would get before you could call a roll over ?
I am considering taking profits in Dec Puts in the AM .
It sounds like you are looking for a strong run at 9000 Dow & 1200 +
S&P !
If so, I should lighten my load by 3/4 & wait to reenter @ the turn ! Any suggestions !

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:53
blooper (RJ) ID#207145:
That would be a switch. Using a goon AGAINST the Prez. Normally it is vice versa. Rocco is good. Dispose of Gore. Break Prezs leggs. Then he can have his way with Hillary. All in a days work.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:52
sharefin (Aurator has been cyber-nuked - he says) ID#284255:
right now I can see nothing at all. I think its an ISP problem, have a
call in to them. that's an oxymoron, Help Desk ( shouldn't say that as
I run one )

Give my regards to Limey

You can tell him he has been a member of the BBG at least since he
speached us on what he spied while roller-blading in the slipstream of
some golden G-Straps. ( or was that my imagination, ANOTHER fantasy? )

Glad too that Bugal is back.

Now, who do you suppose is Karlito now?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:46
RJ (..... JD .....) ID#411259:

Reported today on CNN was that the president was incensed when prosecutors asked specific questions regarding manner, style, and…… technique? Last eve, Wolf Blitzer of CNN reported that it was Hillary who put in the stab at Starr at the end of the speech.

Don’t even think of going to war with us…. Anybody jaywalking at the UN will probably bring full scale retaliation on the violator’s country. And it should be axiomatic that nobody fights a country whose chief correspondent in named, Wolf. No good can come of this.

We have a president desperate to hold on to his job and he is in a foul mood. What’s the name of his dog? Buster? Buttons? Checkers?….. Oh yeah, Buddy. OK, so you are Buddy and you are napping in the Lincoln Bedroom, and some pissed of president comes storming down the hall. One look at Buddy, and….. thunk… he kicks him across the hall.

Saiy, that fells perty gooud mumbles the president and winds up for another go at giving his dog another dose what he has given to all his colleagues, friends, and family in recent months. An aid rushes in and says to the president in a hushed voice…….. you fill in the blank here …… Don’t matter who or what the problem is, a president in this humor is not to be underestimated and not to be allowed anywhere the Jack Daniel’s when he has that mad glint in his eye.

Al Gore is comfortable, Rocco’s got him stashed at a warehouse down by the Potomac. Little wimp never put up a fight; folded like a weed. We got his eyelids propped open and are running the movies Hellfighters, Oklahoma Crude, The China Syndrome, the first hour of Free Willie ( don’t want him gettin’ any ideas ) , and Ferris Bueller’s Day off.

He likes Bueller best.
He will soon be under our control
When next he appears he will look
Exactly like the wooden post
When all know and abhor
Yet something in his manner
May be perceived by those
With quick and keen eyes
As submission to powers
Greater than any he has known
Rocco has that effect on people

I do not like Rocco and I fear him
Yet I seem to be the only human
He doesn’t want to stomp
So we use him when expedient, yes?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:46
blooper (Cheese MOney talks and bullshi* walks.) ID#207145:
I am a mega bear. I will make money when possible. I like money. Thats why I'm waiting to buy gold.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:42
KMTMAN@VANCOUVER (A Screaming buy!) ID#265201:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:41
blooper (Money will come streaming into the market. 2 triple days in a row.) ID#207145:
A 10% correction. Joe Sixpack will flood the market. He will switch out of money funds. We are going to have a new market top. A blowoff.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:39
All that cash will soon be required to pay off foreclosed mortgages, credit card defaults, liability lawsuits, and to pay all the special prosecutors Congress will be forced to appoint! Heh..heh!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:34
John Disney__A (Zaire marches on ..) ID#24135:
to all
Angola says it will help Kabila
defend Kinshasa.. Big booboo there.
This means Savimbi gets another
chance as rebels become his ally
by default.
Go Unita.
No power/water Kinshasa. Rebels come

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:31
blooper (I am wary. Lightfooted. Nimble. I like cash. I will not be rash.) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:28
blooper (Golden Cheese. Cash on the sidelines aces all the experts. Money Talks) ID#207145:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:27
Envy (19 Aug 98) ID#219363:
On this day in August, it's name sake, Roman Emperor Augustus died, in the year of our Lord fourteen. Of Rome Augustus said I found a city of brick and left a city of marble., humility, you just have like that in a world emporer. Anyway, his life was full of so many interesting things that you can't even list them all - fixed the coinage, allowed freemen to wear gold rings, had tons of family problems ( had to exile some grand-children ) , and had an adopted son, Tiberius, of his wife Livia. Apparently he had forced Livia to divorce her first husband so she could be his wife. He was a nifty guy from all accounts and his people loved him. Of his death it was said-

From the Annals of Publius Cornelius Tacitus:

While these and like topics were discussed, the infirmities of Augustus increased, and some suspected guilt on his wife's part. For a rumour had gone abroad that a few months before he had sailed to Planasia on a visit to Agrippa, with the knowledge of some chosen friends, and with one companion, Fabius Maximus; that many tears were shed on both sides, with expressions of affection, and that thus there was a hope of the young man being restored to the home of his grandfather. This, it was said, Maximus had divulged to his wife Marcia, she again to Livia. All was known to Caesar, and when Maximus soon afterwards died, by a death some thought to be self-inflicted, there were heard at his funeral wailings from Marcia, in which she reproached herself for having been the cause of her husband's destruction. Whatever the fact was, Tiberius as he was just entering Illyria was summoned home by an urgent letter from his mother, and it has not been thoroughly ascertained whether at the city of Nola he found Augustus still breathing or quite lifeless. For Livia had surrounded the house and its approaches with a strict watch, and favourable bulletins were published from time to time, till, provision having been made for the demands of the crisis, one and the same report told men that Augustus was dead and that Tiberius Nero was master of the State.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:25
blooper (EJ) ID#207145:
Well said. There is a lot of MONEY on the sidelines. Mutual fund managers don't get paid to time. They dump it in.It doesn't make sense EJ. It just goes up. Senseless? Yes. Profitable? Yes.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:22
George__A (Amazed) ID#433172:
Agape at the market. I feel like I'm left on the island and the boat has gone. I'll probably be just as surprised when it goes the other way.

Ordered about $2000 of comodities today. It has to be put on a barge to get to me and involes two suppliers. It took 3 1/2 hoiurs to place the orders and coordinate the delivers to the barge line. That's with the help of computers. It will be impossible to do anything without them, since it's just barely possible with their help. Part of the problem comes from trying to shake an extra nickel with the computers help, just overly complicated.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:21
this year, I'll be wrong, Jerry Favors and Brian Wien will be wrong, Richard Russell and the DOW THEORY will be wrong, and Bill Clinton will be nominated for the Nobel Piece of @$$ Prize! I kinda' like those odds! Heh...heh!


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:20
EJ (blooper) ID#229207:
I don't have tomorrow's newspaper handy, but I see news coming that the market isn't going to like. The market is heading back up for the usual reason, thinks it's great that interest rates will not rise. The market has just begun to process the information that explains why rates have not been raised. When the information is fully processed, the market will head down without the breather-rallies like this week's.

The key has turned half way in the lock. There are strange noises coming from behind the door. The market is carefully turning the key some more, not sure it wants to let the thing behind the door inside.

News of a major banking crisis in Japan will make the market turn the key another quarter turn. What even after that to let the beast inside?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:17
blooper (Japan) ID#207145:
The Yen probably has one more down leg. Then it will start a multiple year uptrend. The dollar probably has one more leg up. Then it will start a multiple year downtrend. Their bubble is over. Ours is just starting to come apart.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:13
blooper (EJ) ID#207145:
You have a valid point. This will have to be fat to get me outta cash. I am cozy. Yessir.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:12
EJ (Japanese) ID#229207:
Sure know how to suffer. They can take it and take it and take it, and then, after seemingly forever, they do what anyone you know who's like that does -- BOOOOOM! They lose it.

Watch them.

Asia is a mess, politically even more than economically. A strong economy conceals a multitude of sins. If you thought the collapse of the Soviet Union was a surprise, keep an eye on Asia in the next few months.

As someone here has asked from time to time, got gold?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:09
blooper (EJ panic is for losers) ID#207145:
Market technicals tip off crashes. This rally will knock your sox off.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:07
blooper (Golden Cheesehead) ID#207145:
Read Favors. He can comment on this sucker rally. This ain't the one. If it is I'm staying in cash. Believe me I LISTEN to favors. I might be right.. You might be right. Either way THIS IS A BEAR MARKET with lots of money on the sidelines.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:06
EJ (blooper ) ID#229207:
Panic now and avoid the rush.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:05
John Disney__A (Clinton's speech) ID#24135:
To All
Saw good panel show on BBC. One panelist was
the representative of Republicans Overseas in UK.
He made what I thought was a good observation...
that Clinton..who say what you
NORMALLY an expert communicator in the manipulative sense of the word.
BUT the speech was POOR. It was DEFIANT.
It did NOT get a good reaction. The panelist sensed bewilderment
and shock in Clinton's behavior. He didnt have long
to prepare but he should have done better than that.
It sounds almost as if he had rewritten the speach
that his spin doctors had been preparing for him.
Think about it .. He had spent at least four hours
under Starr's gun. His reaction seemed that of
ANGER at Starr.. Maybe SOMETHING happened in that session
that he and his lawyers did not EXPECT.
This is like a heavyweight fight.. One little
mistake and it can be your @ss. You dont many chances
to correct mistakes. Maybe Clinton has lost control.
Also Al Gore seems to have gone missing ..
Whats going on here
Also I agree completely with the new MR BUG .. The
disgusting thing is the sickening reaction of the
American people.. The media seems to have more moral
judgement than the people .. wow .. thats a problem.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:02
blooper (If there is no 50% retracement(higher high). Im staying in cash) ID#207145:
I am painfully aware that I can be totally stupid. The trend is your friend, except for gold investors. ouch.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 02:01
EJ (Bulls and Bears) ID#229207:
Playing chicken. Both know they'll run off the road to get out of each other's way. Who turns first?

Off-the-shoulder is a lovely look for evening, but not for stock markets and economies.

If you're playing a 10,000 DOW, keep your eye out for the Asian banks in the coming weeks. Geez, it took so long, like a nuclear war you thought it'd never happen.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:58
I agree with Brian Wien and Jerry Favors--THE HIGH FOR THE YEAR IS ALREADY IN! Momentum high was in April! Technical high was July 17! This rally will fail by the end of August, perhaps by the end of this week if China devalues or Japan starts sellin' US paper to defend the YEN against further erosion against the greenback. Sept. 4-6 will see NEW DOW LOWS and massive liquidations as 3rd Quarter earnings warnings start to descend! After that, you can forget about stocks for the next year to year and a half as advent of EURO, dumping of dollars, Y2K, Clinton impeachment hearings, Rubin resignation, Greenspan retirement, US recession and global competitive currency devaluations all conspire to
shift smart money away from paper assets to HARD assets! In the fullness of time, yes?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:56
themissinglink (Oh look, LGB is back) ID#373403:
So how are sales going to the communist Chinese over at Loral? Who said the current environment was not conducive to U.S. exports to Asia?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:56
crazytimes (DOW) ID#342376:
My take is that this rally is short lived. The adrenaline might be pumping for investors to get the bull going again but I don't see it happening. This rally is probably a Clinton relief rally There's been an overhang for 7 months and some mistakingly feel it's over. I'll bet it doesn't even make it to 9000 then turns down sharply again by September.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:56
blooper (If I play it, I may use Invesco Europe, For advanced warning.) ID#207145:
Look for a 50% retracement of this rally, and see Jerry Favors first. I will be glad to tell you what he says tomorrow. Blowoff, alltime high. One day of 350 points or so.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:54
ChasAbar__A (CDevito,) ID#287358:
Chas, please give me your email address. I have some gold to
send you. Thanks.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:54
Stilgar (Recognitions (Facets of Kitco) no offense meant) ID#290306:
DOW/Spot/XAU Close images ( well, wild guesses )
Caveat - anyone who pays attention to this deserves what they get...
The Blooper scenario ( what say you? )

1998-08-19 8823 287.6 60.7
1998-08-20 8779 288.3 61.2
1998-08-23 8912 286.6 60.2
1998-08-24 8923 282.3 60.4
1998-08-25 8897 284.5 61.3
1998-08-26 8975 281.8 59.4
1998-08-27 9004 279.6 59.9
1998-08-30 9067 276.2 58.2
1998-08-31 9234 271.5 59.6
1998-09-01 9357 268.6 62.3
1998-09-02 9667 266.5 66.4
1998-09-03 9007 272.4 64.3

It was all written by Chance

Those who have been here more than a year know I'mm only kidding.

PS - does anyone have a URL to The Notebooks of Lazarus Long?

LGB Hi! New job/ISP?

*Resonant Voices to which I slow the scroll ( in alphabetical order )
I'm not telling you why ( wink )

GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD ( you're in another category, as well : )
John Disney
BBW uh John, uh Hepcat, uh Tsetse ( x100 ) , uh Bernatz du, uh gogold
Mike Sheller
and probably 10 to 20 others I can't remember at this time ( forgive me, I'm not worthy...being a rube & all )

Vronsky - I'll delete the en
( Have you ever thought of buying a mirror site )

*There are numerous new voices IMHO which merit attention

Plus way too many others ( Brief, tentative flashes )

*Voices which get a partial mute
Duhhh ( how many times can you say that?

Alas, ANOTHER is syndicated...
What of Big Trader?

Voices which scare me ( but to which I still listen )
You know who you are - don't point that at me...unless you're going to shoot.
( I've got arms - but I never wear short sleeves )

And to those I didn't categorize - I salute you.

Be not afraid lurker - post, post haste. ( It's not that hard to shift handles )

Hmmmm, history impresses itself.

GO GOLD ( There Bart, don't 404 my butt )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:51
blooper (Sell into strength. Be out early.) ID#207145:
When this rally ends, it will be panic city.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:48
blooper (If you play this rally) ID#207145:
Play it in banks and tecnology. Use no more than 50% of your funds. 50% in cash. BBBBe out the 3rd of September.It could go to 10000. There is no way it will last into October.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:47
RJ (..... GC Wrote .....) ID#411259:

If this one is different, it will be the FIRST one since the theory was devised!

GC -

Kinda’ like the current bull market
Equities are now experiencing, yes?
This, too, has never been seen.
Throw the old books out
New tomes will be penned about this market
Unlike any other before, no?


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:44
blooper (Golden Cheeshead) ID#207145:
The rally will last into early September... It will go to new highs. This is a bear market rally. The rally has not started yet. A 50% retraction of this rally will set it up. Late August rally. Lot of sideline money means one hell of a rally.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:39
blooper (RJ) ID#207145:
Of course I agree. Many do not.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:38
Disagree strongly with your DOW 10,000 forecast by October, ironically, for similar reasons! But, that's what makes a market! I'm stayin' short all the way up this little right shoulder and will add to my shorts when we break the neckline down at 8300. Brian Wien tonight on Moneyline agrees with this analysis and pointed out astutely all the many technical non-confirmations apparent in this rally. One of the most glaring facts about this rally is that 75% of ALL STOCKS and 50% of the DOW 30 are DOWN 20% OR MORE FROM THEIR HIGHS! Pretty hard to envision a raging bull market when 75% of all US stocks are down 20% or more! Have had 21 DOW THEORY SELL SIGNALS THIS CENTURY AND EVERY ONE of them was within six to twelve months after the signal a ragin' BEAR!! If this one is different, it will be the FIRST one since the theory was devised! I kinda' like those odds! Heh..heh!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:29
mozel (@The Sinews of War) ID#153102:
Genghis Khan or Tamarlane or Attila had very low martial overhead. No payroll. No pensions.
Modern war is a financial affair. The ECB, assuming it gets the gold out of the National Central Banks, ought to mean the end of war in Europe. The nations there will have no means to issue war bonds against their own treasury.

So who needs a NWO ? Who really needs a U.N. ?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:27
Envy (4 the Y2K crowd) ID#219363:
Jamaica to miss Year 2000 deadline by 4 years - official

KINGSTON, Jamaica, Aug 16 ( Reuters ) - Jamaica will not overcome its Year 2000 computer problems until 2004, with the private sector hardest hit by the delay in swatting the millennium bug, a government minister said on Sunday. Philip Paulwell, Minister of Commerce and Technology, said crucial government systems would meet the deadline. But the private sector, especially the financial services industry, would be hardest hit by the failure to correct date-recognition software before Jan. 1, 2000. It will realistically not be fully dealt with until the year 2004 and this is the case for most countries. Jamaica is not alone, Paulwell said in a Radio Jamaica broadcast.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:19
PH in LA (Insects whose lips move!) ID#225408:

You yourself supplied the insect content by calling your new self BUGwhatever.

I don't now, and never have given a tinker's damn about your bloated self-concious person. Your opinions masquerading as ideas have always been what I have taken exception to. They were almost always empty and exceedingly poorly thought out. I haven't seen any hint of change this evening. More jibes about Puetz, ANOTHER etc. The usual.

You will hear no name calling from me. You never have. But you can rest assured that your ideas will be held to harshest scrutiny. Until, that is, you demonstrate, again, that you do not engage ideas, you only ridicule them. At that point you will be ignored. Again. No matter how much you move your lips.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:16
RJ (..... GC and bloops .....) ID#411259:

The Dow has erased all losses from last week
And will erase all thousand points lost by October
Dow to 10K.... not because I say so
But because it is going there
Regardless of what you or you or I believe

I do like gold here though
And have been loading up on physical deliveries
Closed half my shorts and am itching for a time
When I can play gold on the long side
Will I then be accepted into the
Benevolent Brotherhood of Goldbugs?
I have references

I do

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:11
snowbird (Dyzd: Thanks for the Rydex Ursa information) ID#220325:
I don't feel so badly for thinking I picked the wrong fund.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:10
Envy (Somebody Wins) ID#219363:
In the vain of finding organizations that win during financial crisis. It's nice to find someone besides terrorist organizations who get something out of a financial and political melt-down. Not saying one is happening, just an area I've been looking into for a few months now.

Borneo forest-dwellers 'welcome' Asian crisis

SINGAPORE, Aug 18 ( Reuters ) - East Asia's recession may have benefited at least one society in the region -- Borneo's nomadic Penan people whose forests are no longer being so heavily logged.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:06
sharefin (LGB) ID#284255:
A golden welcome back to you.

A golden ship needs a golden crew.....

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 01:02
RJ (..... PS PH .....) ID#411259:

I am thinking about your post
I castigated some for certain bias
And must admit to mine own
Or lie to myself instead
Lurky has been the attack dog in the past
More ornery Shepherd
Than drooling Doberman, though
And mostly stayed inside his own fence
Until poked and roused by personal attack

If I were to name a single complaint
About a fellow named Lurky
It is that he pushed and prodded to excess
Towards certain posters on this site
( A failing of my own on occasion )
I agree with some of his picks
And disagree with others
But there comes a time
To let it drop
( like bloops and GC
And the EB Disney stock
We heard it all two weeks ago, OK? )

Still and all
And all said and done
He will likely post here
Until he is gone


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:59
sharefin (Good listening tomorrow - live on Real Audio) ID#284255:

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:52
Hedgehog (After squizzin' at me charts) ID#39857:
The conclusion is the Harmonica went down oh Mr. Robert Champion
de Crespigny's Normandy ( with a multitude of plums in my mouth )
and sucked so damn hard the poor thing has got acute kidney problems
Under candle light it looks like its weeing blood.
Dr. Gold prescribed some close outs and oops-a-daisy things just
got worse. Should of opted for ancient chinese remedy. Harry Wangs
herbal tea with infusion of POCs.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:51
BUGal__A (@ RJ) ID#206235:
Thanks again for being a gracious and class act...and for seeing the differences between mooi and the person who formerly posted with an asterisk preceeding his name! ( Or was it the artist formerly known as Price! )

Off to sell Nukes to the Chineee.....


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:48
BUGal__A (@ PH in LA......... Read my lips) ID#206235:
Cause I'm only gonna say this once.

I strongly disagree with the expulsion for reason etc., however, it was Bart himself who commented to me via e mail that coming back under a new moniker was one alternative.

Now, under the new post Farfel Kitco enforcement guidelines, the rule is that ideas may be held up to harsh scrutiny, but individual unprovoked attacks of a personal nature, ie namecalling, WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.yes PH, we will now all be held to the same standard, and as such you will not see me tossed from this forum again.

Therefore, your using such pejoratives as insect, negative nabob, destructive, et al in regards to my person, is no longer acceptable. Stifle the personal attacks immediately or I will complain loud and long, though I will NOT respond in kind.. Nuff said?

Thank you, now I shall return to my good mood.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:47
RJ (..... PH .....) ID#411259:

I must be punch drunk
Or perhaps I like the guy
Because he has an opinion
About almost anything
And humor is sprinkled throughout
Not retreads of Reader's Digest Jokes
But spontaneous and witty banter

Most important of all
He sees what is, rather
Than wishing things be so
You have been around here for a time, yes?
Lurky and I had our problems in the past
Until we understood each other
We were sparks to the fire
But he throws no rocks at me
Nor others that I have seen yet
Quite apart from fumpy
Who used his first words back
To blame it all on me

Besides, I want to nail him for
All the missile technology
He shipped to China
In the trunk of his car
He is guilty and must atone
And whatever we do
We must always insure
He doesn't get a truck


I do like the way you write

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:47
mozel (@FCC) ID#153102:
Governments have powers, not rights.
If the federal violates the Constitution, who is going to stop them ?

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:43
sharefin (Up/Down Volume chart) ID#284255:

This chart plots the up-volume / down/volume of the NYSE, Nasdaq and Amex markets.
This is shown as a ratio.

It shows the momentum of where the volumes are heading.

One can observe the bottoming and strong rallying currently.
Looks to be a powerfull rally building.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:43
Gianni Dioro__A (Currency Contagion is becoming mainstream news) ID#384350:
France-Info radio reports today that according to German, Lutz Hoffman, the global monetary system is Crumbling. He says the Russian rouble devaluation is likely to have adverse effects on other countries.

Of course we all know this, but now it is being picked up by the mainstream press.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:39
JTF (sharefin -- for you -- logging off!) ID#57232:
Thanks for letting us all know what the Oldman is saying. He is truly amazing! Thanks again for consistently posting your swing chart -- as you said, I did back out of 50% of my long position -- partially from your warning, and partialy because the mini rally fizzled halfway into the second day. This rally is different, IMHO -- up two days in a row.
Sold some of my SP500 puts -- should have sold them yesterday. I am a little worried about APH being short -- because he is so good at what he does, but he is very short term -- I am aiming at weeks to a month.
Saw your house on the net -- beautiful!

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:37
Envy (Pirate Radio Stations Closed) ID#219363:
Umm, maybe I wasn't paying attention ? When did the FCC get the right to leverage fines, confiscate equipment and put people in jail for going against FCC policy ? Has this ever been challenged in court ?

[...] Pirate radio operators that were shut down were: 104.1, 97.7, 89.1, 91.7, 95.3 and 99.5, all in Miami; 94.5 and 88.7 in North Miami; 107.1 in Miami Beach; 90.9 in Davie; 90.3 and 90.9 in Homestead; 92.7 and 101.1 in Coconut Grove; and 104.7 Hialeah. Most of the stations were shut down between July 27 and July 31. Penalties for operating unlicensed stations include fines and jail time of up to one year. But the FCC did not say whether it would seek these sanctions against the 15 stations.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:35
tolerant1 (PH in La, Namaste' and a gulp to ya..) ID#373284:
Cheese and crackers!!! What did I miss. I was watching Bill Maher making a Jack's ass out of himself, what a spoiled cracker hollywood dimwit...

I should send him some knee-pads so he can get Clintler off when he needs it according to Maher himself...

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:34
Dutchman (Royal Oak Mines) ID#215235:
Royal Oak mines saw a low of 7/16th today but rebounded to even at 9/16th in heavy trading. RYO seems like a cheap buy at below $50/ share. Just may buy some on the next dip.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:27
PH in LA (Is he back?) ID#225408:

Where is your rightous indignation at the return of the other insect?

You went for the jugular of a mere madman.

But this more sinister intellctually destructive nabob of negativism you welcome with open arms? Posting in retrograde.

He was expelled for good and valid reasons. Some, no doubt, were economic, too. Where is your outrage, now, when we need it?


Is this return-under-new-moniker-when-the-old-one-was-banned better conduct than what we have to see every time we look at a TV and see such frenzy about lies, deceptions, and misleading the country?

Robnoel, Tolerant1, Spud et al: What do you have to say about this deception.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:25
Goldteck (Street Strategies Buying on Dips: First, Be Selective Los Angeles Times.) ID#431200:
Tuesday, August 18, 1998
Street Strategies
Buying on Dips: First, Be Selective
Remember, There's No Sure Way to Gauge Where the Bottom Is
 The bull market of the 1990s, no strategy has worked better than buying stocks on dips. Everybody knows that.
     But here's something nobody knows: when a market slide will become so severe that stocks keep going down and early bargain hunters get badly burned.
     It's far too soon, of course, to sound the death knell for a tactic that's worked like a charm since 1990. Indeed, the current market pullback could very well turn out to be just another great buying opportunity.
     Some investors apparently thought so Monday as they pushed some blue-chip stocks up sharply, lifting the Dow Jones industrial average 149.85 points, or 1.8%, to 8,574.85.
     The money we're putting into [stocks] today is going to look like good investments in six or 12 months, said Lanny Sachnowitz, manager of the AIM Charter mutual fund.
     Nevertheless, individual investors should be cautious. Blue- chip shares have fallen for four straight weeks, and the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index still is off about 9% from its July 17 all-time high.
     Smaller stocks have been sinking since April. Especially in their case, the buy-on-the-dip mentality has been absent this time.
     Obviously there is no sure way to gauge when a stock has stopped going down--or if this market correction will turn into a full-fledged bear market, the first since 1990.
     Still, there are some broad rules investors should follow when sifting through the market's debris for good buys.
     * Be very selective: The first rule of bargain hunting is straightforward: Don't buy a stock just because it's fallen in price.
     After the Dow Jones industrial average plunged 554 points Oct. 27 amid worries over the Asian economic crisis, individual investors led the charge the next day, as the Dow rebounded 337 points.
     The market gyrated for a couple of months, then launched into another powerful surge in mid-January.
     Anyone lucky enough to catch Microsoft at its Oct. 27 close ( $64.38 ) has gained 67%, with the stock now at $107.31.
     But anyone rushing into the Korea Fund that day, when it closed at $8.94 a share, is looking at a 32% loss, as the price has continued to slide to $6 now.
     A common mistake individual investors make is they look at a list of stocks that are down a lot and say, 'These are cheap. I'm going to go in and buy them and they'll go back up,' said David Corkins, manager of the Janus Growth & Income fund.
     But very often, stocks are cheap for a reason.
     In the case of any stock or fund tied closely to Asia, the fundamentals had just begun to deteriorate last summer and fall. Few investors realized how bad things would get--and how much cheaper the stocks would get.
     A rule that always applies to stock-picking, but that is especially important in a shaky market: Do your homework before buying what you think are bargains.
     Do your best to understand what you're investing in, said Jim Margard, a money manager at Rainier Investment Management in Seattle.
     Corkins, for example, recently bought entertainment giant Time Warner and computer networker Cisco Systems. The stocks got cheaper in the market pullback, which only increased their appeal to Corkins because he is confident that the companies' fundamental business prospects are strong.
     * Long-term investors should look for companies that lead their industries: If you're bargain-hunting not for a short-term trade but for an investment that will pay off over several years, it's best to start with the highest-quality industry leaders you can find--companies likely to survive any industry-related or economy-related shocks that may still lie ahead.
     In evaluating those stocks, use traditional valuation measurements as a shopping guide--for example, stocks' price-to-earnings ratios.

     For example, Scott Schermerhorn, manager of the Federated American Leaders stock fund, just bought Boeing, the leading aircraft maker, and Schlumberger, the oil-field services giant.
     Both stocks have been hammered, as Boeing's earnings have weakened in part because of production problems, and as Schlumberger's outlook has dimmed with low oil prices.
     Schermerhorn's reasoning in buying the stocks now: By his calculations, they are the cheapest they've been in two decades when gauged against the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index on several valuation measures.
     Schlumberger is cheap relative to cash flow and earnings, Schermerhorn said.
     Boeing, meanwhile, is trading at a historically low valuation in terms of price-to-book value, or the basic worth of the business.
     Do I know the time frame for when Boeing will come back? Schermerhorn asked. Absolutely not. But do I think the worst of the news is out? I can't think what's worse for Boeing.
     Rainier's Margard, also a long-term investor, now likes Avon Products, Quaker Oats, US West and chemical firm B.F. Goodrich.
     * If you're a short-term trader, understand what the market wants: At any point, the market is dominated by certain trends. Right now, the market most favors stocks with earnings reliability and ample liquidity.
     That means many investors are afraid to buy stocks that have even a small risk of disappointing Wall Street. It also means investors want stocks that trade actively enough so that big institutions can quickly enter--and exit.
     Both factors would seem to favor large stocks over small ones--the trend since 1994 as well.
     In this market, if [a company] misses a number their stock is absolutely devastated, said Marty Hurwitz, manager of the IDS Life Aggressive Growth fund. You need a reasonable prediction of earnings to minimize the number of times that happens.
     Hurwitz, hunting for companies with high reliability in their earnings or cash-flow outlooks, now is favoring such issues as radio companies--names like Chancellor Media ( ticker symbol: AMFM ) and Clear Channel Communications ( CCU ) . Both have pulled back in the market correction so far.
     Similarly, Jim Gribbell, manager of the Babson Growth Fund, has lately added to companies he believes can notch low- to mid-double-digit annual profit growth.
     Among health-care companies, he's recently added to his holdings of Pfizer; Cardinal Health a drug-distribution company; and Guidant, a medical products maker.
     Overall, We've been much more active [buying] the past week than we have been the past two months, Gribbell said.
     As for liquidity, Margard has only bought stocks lately whose average daily trading volume is $2 million or more. On a $20 stock, that would require that a minimum of 100,000 shares trade daily.
     Liquidity isn't a direct concern for small investors. They can always sell a few hundred shares. But if bad news hits, it's likely that institutional investors will sell their shares long before small investors know of the news. So all else being equal, a stock trading a relatively small number of shares will be hurt worse than another stock.
     * Be careful about buying the leaders of the last market advance: When a correction hits, investors' natural inclination is to lunge at the stocks that led the last phase of the bull market.
     It seems logical enough. Problem is, the leaders of one bull run usually aren't the leaders of the next. This dynamic is especially pronounced in smaller stocks.
     Why does leadership often change between market runs? Investors may discover flaws in a stock that they didn't see before. Maybe a stock's industry group has fallen out of favor. Or it simply could be that fickle investors have moved on to the next hot stock, or group.
     Whatever the reason, the hot stock often grows cold.
     Consider MRV Communications a Chatsworth-based computer networking company.
     MRV was a top performer in early 1996, soaring from less than $8.50 at the start of the year to more than $40 five months later. MRV then slumped with a market pullback in mid-1996.
     But as the Russell 2,000 small-stock index began to recover in mid-July of that year, and eventually surpassed its old high, MRV's stock failed to keep up. It did not make another strong run until the summer of 1997--by which time many investors' patience may have worn out.
     Other erstwhile high-fliers with similar patterns include Iomega and Corrections Corp. of America.
     * Look for strength: It might seem counterintuitive in a correction, but even when looking to buy dips you should target strongly performing stocks--especially if your orientation is more toward trading than long-term investing.
     In basic terms, look for stocks that fall by a smaller percentage than the market on bad days and rise more than the market on good days.
     Such strength is important for two reasons: First, these stocks are likely to hold up better in a protracted downturn.
     Second, and more important, this tactic is especially effective at identifying the stocks that may lead the next phase of the bull market. The reason is simple. When the market turns, the stocks investors want most are likely to move up first.
     When the market is mired in a correction, many big investors hone their wish lists. When the market finally turns around, the strongest stocks move up earliest as investors quickly pump money into them.
     You want to focus on the stocks that will recover the strongest and that will lead the way, Corkins said.
     To use this strategy properly, you must pay attention to the market so that you recognize when it is turning higher.
     Typically, a key sign that stocks are turning up comes when the market moves up strongly for several days on heavy volume. When that occurs, keep a close eye on the stocks that lead. They might be the best performers going forward.
     * Don't be afraid to sell if a bargain goes bad: One of the most common mistakes individual investors make is hanging on to losers, hoping they'll somehow turn around and make it back to the points at which they bought them. That's a dumb strategy in good markets, but it can be disastrous for bottom-fishers picking over a dicey market.
     When investors buy on dips, they're hoping that a stock has stopped falling. But they're implicitly taking the chance that the descent has further to go.
     The risk is that a stock is headed for a far deeper loss than an investor realizes. And that just one sizable loss can decimate a portfolio.
     So if a stock falls 8% from the price at which you bought it, many experts say it's best to sell. Under no circumstances should you tolerate a loss of more than 10%.
     In some cases, you'll end up selling on the low and watching in frustration as the stock moves back up. But you've also preserved your capital that can be put toward other stocks.
     Of course, long-term investors may argue that if they find value in a stock--and it gets cheaper--they should simply buy more. That can work if you have a truly long-term horizon, but it requires steel nerves--and a lot of capital.
         Cheap Enough Yet?
     How a sampling of big-name stocks' prices have fallen from their 52-week highs, and the stocks' price-to-earnings ratios based on estimated 1998 earnings per share.
      52-week Monday Percentage '98
Stock high close drop P/E
Avon Products $89.00 $80.88 --9% 27
Time Warner 100.00 89.63 --10 --
US West 58.00 52.00 --10 18
Pfizer 121.75 104.63 --14 50
Walt Disney 42.75 32.19 --25 33
Hewlett-Packard 82.38 55.25 --33 19
DuPont 84.44 55.06 --35 16
Boeing 58.19 36.94 --37 29
B.F. Goodrich 56.00 35.44 --37 12
Schlumberger 94.44 51.75 --45 18
S&P 500 1,186.75 1,083.67 --9 23
     Note: P/Es based on analyst estimates tracked by Zacks Investment Research.
     Source: Times research
Copyright 1998 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:25
JTF (You can't fool all the people all the time) ID#57232:
All: Some thoughts about WJC. At one time, he cast his magic spell on Arkansas to become the Governor of Arkansas, strongly liked by some, and eventually stongly disliked by others. But, he was a dark horse candidate in the presidential elections, and a very attractive charismatic candidate when compared to the inelegant George Bush, who clearly waited to long to campaign, and had to shoulder a recession as well. I must admit I was fooled too. So -- the likeable magician-illusionist WJC was launched into the White House. And -- the illusion carried him into a second term.
But -- now the more astute of the Newsmedia members see him for what he is, and are starting to turn against him. Many of his insiders seem to be leaving him. He is still popular with the general public, but this is to be expected. Eventually there too the people will gradually wake up and see him for what he is. The WJC illusion is slowly fading, revealing to the public what he really is.
I would guess that this process will take time -- many months before WJC is history. Certainly his rumored turning on Al Gore as a Campaigngate fall guy is par for the course. Weaken your potential competition, and deflect some of the wrath from yourself -- all in a single stroke.
This current market rally tells me that there are alot of market bulls out there who still believe in the magic of WJC's touch. The markets also act like a poll on WJC's affairs, going up when he is up, and down when he is down.
I think a 50% retracement for the markets would be reasonable minimum at this time -- I doubt I can be bullish for too much longer before I get cold feet. It will be interesting to see how the markets do going into labor day -- a generally bullish time for the markets. It often does not look quite so great after the holidays, though.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:19
Suspicious (Tide has definately turned) ID#287312:
on DerArkanfuror. Dems are turning on him. I think it will soon be over, for him and his bubble economy.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:17
Jung (@ Silverbaron, abt derivatives) ID#237164:
Thank you for the reference URL.

It seems in 1997, about 17% of the loans were foreign. That's a lot
of exposure. I suppose all the large US banks are similar.

It scares me that BA and NationsBank are merging. After the Swiss banks
merged, there was news that they had Asian exposure.

I am waiting for the other foot to drop w/r/t BA and NB. If you hear
any news, please let me know.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:15
BUGal__A (@ RJ / Sheller) ID#206235:
Thanks for the welcome back RJ! I could read it because my mond works in dyslexic fashion on request!

Sheller, I know it's the UCMJ, but I mix letters on most of my words dontcha know! As to TA, Patterns, cycles, yin and yang, in and out ( in deference to Bill C. ) ....hey I've always added a dash of TA to my investment strategy soup.....

I will be gone for a time..... the DOW will end higher than it began ( you heard it here Sunday when Cheeze was callin crash this week! )

Take care gents,


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:12
ChasAbar__A (Highrise.) ID#287358:
In your 21:38, I thought you wrote, Clinton Wore Lewinsky During the
Speech. Talk about chutzpah. %^ )

I also thought that BUGal referred to Brilliant Uncirculated Gal, meaning
either a female collector of mint condition gold coins, or a female smart
enough to stay away from Clinton's office.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:09
Jung (@ Silverbaron, abt derivatives) ID#237164:
Thank you for the reference URL.

It seems in 1997, about 17% of the loans were foreign. That's a lot
of exposure. I suppose all the large US banks are similar.

It scares me that BA and NationsBank are merging. After the Swiss banks
merged, there was news that they had Asian exposure.

I am waiting for the other foot to drop w/r/t BA and NB. If you hear
any news, please let me know.


Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:09
Wizened (Dutchman) ID#242303:

Here's my ten cents. 70 % of options expire worthless. ( to the holders )

Unless you know you are sitting on a major move buy fairly distant puts/calls or they will deterioarte at a very rapid rate. It is a sickening feeling to see the market go with you but not deep enough to make up for the time deterioration.

Watch them options ten minutes late getting out can make the difference between a quick profit and holding them for the next move ( which may not come for a while )

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:05
EJ (RJ ) ID#229207:
Mike is as good as he is becuase he's highly experienced and has developed a strong intuition about what's going to happen and he projects this onto his charts. The charts are a reflection of his thoughts, although to him they appear to guide them. My sense is that Mike gives the charts more credit than they deserve.

Date: Wed Aug 19 1998 00:03
ERLE (I was going to say that it is unbecoming a goldbug) ID#190411:
To hold Herr Clintler's daughter to the ridicule that her parents have cultivated.
Butt, I saw the imperial family heading for the imperial device that lifts the gods ( helicopter ) , and Sun-King's Heir apparent had stretch shorts that would be appropriate on a promenade of whores.
Isn't there someone in this illegitimate gommint that can advise the trash about decorum?
Down with the Executive branch, and all others.

Return to Home Page

Site design & maintenance by Nick Laird
All pages on this website are ©1998-2018 ShareLynx Gold - All Rights Reserved