Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:52
HighRise (gold................') ID#401460:

7/10/98 -- 10:22 PM

Hong Kong-Gold

HONG KONG ( AP ) - Gold in Hong Kong opened at $290.85 an ounce on Saturday,
down 10 cents from Friday's close of $290.95.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:39
STUDIO.R (@my fellow monks........) ID#288369:
nytol. ( copyright teddO, 1997 )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:35
fiveliter (SDR'er) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If the Euro ( or the DEM which is fixed to it and ceases to matter outside of Germany ) aren't fixed to gold then the $US POG wouldn't matter. 1 Euro =1 $US= X oz of gold. Might be .003 or .002 or whatever. If they're not fixing the Euro to gold there's no gold floor in $US. They'll WISH they'd fixed it about 12 months later, though. Of course, currencies may be the least of their problems with all the old Soviet Bloc nuclear power plants nearby. The Russian nuclear regulatory agency said they'd fix their Y2K problems when they occurred! No joke. I bet flights to Europe are going to be REAL cheap in Dec. 99. Don't these people realize they're looking at multiple Chernobyls with literally millions of lives at risk? America's Y2K efforts may or may not ultimately fail but at least we're not THAT stupid!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:25
STUDIO.R (@SDRer.............) ID#288369:
I admire your incoherentcy...if that is what you call it. May all of us be so inclined. salud@SDRer! ( next time please run the numbers a $369.... just for old times sake! )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:24
oris (Reify) ID#238422:
I like your words. You are my brother.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:23
Ogie (Stock market ) ID#242300:
Copyright © 1998 Ogie/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
On June 15, 1998, Wall Street Wizard, Rubin, was directed by the heavy breathers in Washington to lead a search and rescue operation to save the stock market. On that day, ( see for yourself:$indu&d=1: seen better if you click on 5M upper right ) , the Dow was headed down the tracks, next stop 8000, and in came the big boys with a little currency magic. Make no mistake, the window of opportunity spoken of by Rubin, is not only for Japan to make economic reforms, but it is a window of opportunity for us all to think about a Bull growing claws and getting varrrrwy sleeeeeepy!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:19
Reify (Just calling what I see) ID#413109:
Copyright © 1998 Reify/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Old Gold, Bully Beef- Others-
Calling for a bottom, as I saw it, for the NIKKEI, was not that I had the funds to play this, but just to
bring everyone's attention to something that I spotted. I watch many indecies, keep charts ( long term )
on many, in order to generally keep informed and make the best decisions that I'm able to make.

Golds now I see completing what looks to me to be a large base for a substantial up move which I believe
could last quite a number of years ( 10 ) . Will the move start Monday? your guess is as good as mine, but
I don't see the 250-265 range that several posters have mentioned. Maybe I'm missing something, but I
remain long term bullish on gold, and sitting tight and not trading, for me is the answer. Whenever I attempt
to trade, I get my you know what in a sling.

Looking at near term charts on gold, and the Bolinger channels, I should think a turn is possibly in the
cards for Monday or Tuesday.

Have fun in the sun, and keep the faith in gold.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:18
tolerant1 (I will never use a national id card.) ID#373284:
Period, end of story...the regular people have not even started to go after the Coward Erect, his pissant Executive orders and the rest of the fraud government...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:10
Lan Man (@E-Mail Just In) ID#320108:








WHEN : MONDAY, JULY 13, 1998 AT 2:15PM


At a news conference on the Georgia State Capitol steps Monday, U.S.

Representative Bob Barr ( GA-7 ) will announce a legislative effort to

block a national identification card. The card is being implemented by

a proposed regulation which will require all states to begin using a

uniform identification card. Barr will also announce an effort to block the implementation of a Clinton executive order allowing federal agencies vast new jurisdiction for superseding state authorities. Representatives from several civil liberties groups and local activists are also scheduled to attend.


( And just when we gave up all hope of Anybody giving a damn... )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:09
STUDIO.R (@BullyBeef & goldfevr..........) ID#288369:
Salud!!!! Muchas garcias ( cabo spelling ) !!! Cold shower worked well ( good idea! ) ....98 degrees @ 10:00 p.m. studio@okie.sweatshop ....

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:08
SDRer__A (fivelighter--the DEM /XAU quote was a 7/8/98 Oanda quote) ID#28594:
as were the other exchange quotes. As of 1/1/1999 the monetary
dmark ceases to exist. You may carry it about ( within Germany's borders only ) if you wish, but when you PAY for anything the payment is
in EUROs and the dmarks you tender exist ONLY AS UNITS OF THE EURO CURRENCY!
your incoherent friend,
SDRer {:- ) )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:05
tolerant1 (The court ruling sucks, so does the judge or the clown passing themselves off as) ID#373284:
a judge, it is pathetic...but don't worry Y2K will fix governments and all the power hungry pissants worldwide...there is an upside people...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:02
John B__A (RJ) ID#211105:
Appreciate the informative commentary in the weekly report. Do you have any insight into Goldman Sachs taking possession ( ? ) of silver receipts? Sounds bullish but is it necessarily?

Not an important comment but I find reading the yellow on black to be somewhat difficult on the eyes. thanks again,

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 23:00
fiveliter (Bully Beef) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I guess I don't consider postings to be exactly private but they should be anonymous. That is, anyone can read postings but it should be damn difficult to attribute it to any one person. This court ruling is bad news for the Net. The two truly unique things about it are 1 ) people from all over the world can talk to each other about common interests and 2 ) it's about the last place you can speak your mind without fear of reprisal. Totalitarian governments like China are hard at work on 1 ) and now enlightened western governments want to take away 2 ) . Without anonymous posting, the Net will become just like TV, a vast wasteland devoid of original thinking or dissenting views with the sole purpose of selling merchandise. Well, ok, it's not quite that bad, there are some high quality and entertaining shows but mostly its just junk to get ad dollars. Which is fine but leave the net alone. I can see where providers might have to turn names over in extreme cases but it should only be for proof of violent crimes and only with a valid search warrant. For example, someone brags about a horrible murder they committed to a chat group providing details the police know only the killer could provide. Most anything else, take a hike.
***PM RELATED*** Did Merrill Lynch actually make a statement about WB and silver or is that just Net Noise? Also, here's my new motto:
Gold 2K in Y2K It better since I've got about 60% of my assets in physical gold and silver. Up from a big fat 0% just one year ago. Of course then I didn't think fiat money might well be history in two years. I didn't even know or care what the term fiat meant. I thought it was just some crappy little french car. Breakfast for the Stang-o-mizer! Feed the Windsor V8! Actually it prefers 93 octane unleaded. ;- )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:37
goldfevr (Bully-Beef@20:19/Reify/Old-Gold) ID#434108:
Japan/Nikkei/Asia will rise
As the US/Dow/Europe decline.

Japan in a 9 year bear
US in a 9 year bull

bread & water

it is time for the tables to shift and turn

Aug/Sep are the likely fulcrum/turning-point:

where this decade-long destroyer
and mega-decade-long 'AIR-craft-carrier'

do the inevitable - 'about-face'

and reverse.....
and our

and fate

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:31
Silverbaron (Tantalus) ID#288295:
I forgot to add ( in my response to your question this morning ) protect yourself against counterfeits, frauds, etc., just don't buy from any mail order dealer that doesn't have a guaranteed return policy. That isn't usually a problem with the larger, well-known dealers, but be very careful at coin shows or small shops where you might not have the return privilege. Also, I personally would never buy anything from any of those pesky outfits that gives me cold calls pushing gold coins. P.S. No tribute necessary ... glad to lend any help I can.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:27
sharefin (Aragorn III - JTF) ID#284255:
I'd give you 10 out of 10 for your 12:05
It's the closest I've seen to my understanding.

The fractional banking system if fragile regardless of the banks compliancy.

The easiest way for me to transfer my wealth out of the banks is to write out a check gor gold.
It's solid, real, easy to sell and a cheap asset right now.
Where else to store my wealth?
When you don't want to hold a promise to paper.

I don't need much loose cash just secure assets.
Many will feel the need for this.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:23
Bully Beef (Fivelitre.. I'm supossed to be the lousy censor and I hate the idea of being unable) ID#259282:
to slander individuals on the internet without being sued. You see I consider what I write here to be a personal letter to all of you and not a bloody television broadcast. If they want to be voyeurs then they are the ones that should be slapped. Goonight. I'm too tired. The pricks . Go GOLD!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:17
6pak () ID#335190:
U.S. wholesale inflation down

Prices of tranquilizers, which had caused the May spike, were up again in June

although Labor Department analysts said the price increases in the drug category were more widespread in June.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:15
skinny (Mtn Bear) ID#28994:
I suscribe online to a Canadian publication called the Northern Miner,I may have acquired the information there.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:15
Tantalus__A (? to all) ID#374204:
My people are experts in the field of farm
drip irrigation technology, which has now
been adopted by the Gold mining industry as
a leaching method for the Nasties involved
in the mining process.

If we could, in an environmentally freindly way,
eliminate the Nasties as well, might that be of

Who would be best to approach with such a process?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:11
RJ (..... PMR .....) ID#411259:

Not kind to gold this week

Nor silver, nor PGMs

Oh well

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:10
fiveliter (Aliens, Philips, and the Euro) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter All rights reserved
SDR-I think I finally understood one of your posts! At the launch of the Euro, the DEM/Dollar ratio is fixed since 1 Euro=1.9808 DEM and 1 Euro=1.0833 $US so 1 DEM=.547 $US. But where did the 1 XAU=530.94 DEM come from? Is it in the same document? Without a fixed XAU/DEM it doesn't work.
About Philips-I don't see what the big deal is. So they turn over names, addresses, e-mailz und zo on. Zis is nesesari to prezerv ORDER! I zee frum your e-mailz you schtill haf relativs in Germani, no? Ve vil dizkus dis, yez ve vil. Kum vid uz. SCHNELL!
About Aliens-I really kind of doubt that any species capable of interstellar flight would be interested in anything we have to offer or would see us a threat or ally. Any ships that might have shown up here are probably filled with cultural anthropologists on government grants ( we're them 1000 years ago ) and staffed by losers no legitimate shipping company would hire.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:07
Mtn Bear (SE) (@Skinny) ID#347267:
Munk just delegating. See>
Barrick is neat site:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:06
Bully Beef (I was thinking about when here in Ontario about 8 years ago when we had high inflation) ID#259282:
Copyright © 1998 Bully Beef/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
high real estate prices, good wages, high interest and how much money I was making wheeling and dealing. Very quickly things went down hill. I made some good money flipping cottages here.Homes were at an all time high in Toronto.
I was thinking that run away home prices are a good indication that the end is near. I used to not work as hard as my buddy on the west coast and had far more net worth. In the last 10 years he has surpassed me and I have gone backwards. There was very little I could do about the change in the economy here and I couldn't forsee the change comming. I was far better off in times of inflation.Remember that inflation is a lot of dollars chasing far too few goods. ( However interest rates should have gone up in inflation.I think this is where the broad based stock market confidence has changed the evidence in the US. ) There are alot of confident spenders in the US right now and I think the prudent in the US will put off buying the Mega home right now because the bargains are only 6 months away. You see ten years ago I was getting the same wage I am now only my truck was 16000 buck then and now to get the same thing is 28000 bucks.However cottages 10 years ago were about 120000 dol. and now they are about 95000 dol. CDN. We have a lot of US people buying cottages here right now. Once they get most off the market ( many have languished for 3 years ) then prices will go up. It is too my benefit that the US buck is high. Also Feds got rid of the 20% sur tax on Americans buying Canadian land.Comprenez vous?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 22:03
Tantalus__A (Silverbaron@9:58) ID#374204:
Got your post. Many thanks for the advice.
How might a serf submit a form of tribute
to a Baron?

I'm off to shop! Best Regards you, Baron

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:55
Mtn Bear (SE) (@Skinny) ID#347267:
RE Barrick: Can you document Munk's resignation? Had not heard this.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:54
goldfevr (Studio.R@20:39 (?) and the rapists on Wall St.) ID#434108:
Isn't it wonderful, how the power of the pen,
is so much mightier than the 'sword',
that it even enables us to ...
'blow off some steam',
and, in the process...
help us re-focus ourselves......
on the
Three-cheers, Studio.R; great post..

reeeeee-lax ...... - in your jacuzzi

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:51
WindyLake (CAU) ID#240460:
As a CAU shareholder I have to agree with sentiments
posted earlier about this company and its' stock.I thought
it was a good buy ( goodbye ) at a buck so today I bought more
at 3/8's.As a buyer of gold stock from time to time,ask me if
I'm hurting,I can only go with what's visible.Is their some
significant fact soon to be announced that will kill it's
Happy Trading!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:50
Mtn Bear (SE) (Swiss Banks - Nazi Gold) ID#347267:
Copyright © 1998 Mtn Bear (SE)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From Today's Financial Times ( Must Register )
NAZI GOLD: Swiss banks expect sanctions this week
By John Authers in New York
Swiss banks expect to have sanctions imposed on them by US state and city officials this week over the Nazi gold affair, and they intend to respond with legal action.
Officials leading the negotiations on behalf of UBS and Credit Suisse, giving their first press interview on the issue, also made it clear they thought divisions among negotiators for Holocaust victims lay behind the failure to reach a settlement.
Last week lawyers acting on behalf of Holocaust survivors rejected a public offer of $600m ( £360m ) in addition to the amount proved by an independent audit to be left in dormant accounts, which the banks had made to settle the US legal actions against them. The lawyers called it a shabby offer.
Robert O'Brien, global head of credit and loan management for Credit Suisse First Boston, said: We've reached a point now where we realise we are dealing with two agendas. One is the substance of the issue. The other is the political agenda. He added: Some politicians basically see this as an opportunity. Notwithstanding the facts, they will pursue their own ends for their own purposes.
He also questioned whether some lawyers in the case, who have been criticised by Holocaust victims themselves for failing to keep the plaintiffs informed, were motivated primarily by the attempt to generate fees.
The interview marked a new departure for the banks, which have so far taken a low profile. Obviously angered by the failure to reach a settlement, and by continued negative publicity in the US press, they said they were prepared to fight the legal actions in court.
On Wednesday, a group of elected finance officials led by Alan Hevesi, the New York city comptroller, will meet in New York to hear representations from the parties to the talks over a global settlement. Mr Hevesi has said they may impose sanctions on the banks.
But Mr O'Brien said: Sanctions at this point in time would be counter-productive. Sanctions are probably illegal because they are unconstitutional. It's the US government which carries out the foreign policy of the US, and not New York City.
Richard Capone, managing director of UBS in the Americas, said they were prepared to take legal action even though this might put them in the uncomfortable position, for Wall Street institutions, of suing the city of New York.
They have been criticised for moving too slowly. The audit of their dormant accounts, carried out under the direction of Paul Volcker, former Federal Reserve chief, has already lasted two years, involving 500 accountants at a cost to the banks of $200m.
But Mr Capone said of the $70m, subsequently raised to $200m, which the banks made available for a humanitarian fund two years ago, to ensure speedy recompense for ageing Holocaust survivors, only $11m has thus been paid out.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:48
Fred (Y2K on McLaughlin Group) ID#341234:
I just saw a segment on the McLaughlin Group about Y2K. Between Nightly Business Report ( Dines a a guest ) and McLaughlin, I have extremely high respect for PBS. They are the only network that is more substance than fluff. The regulars do not think Y2K will be a problem. I am sure these reporters have liberal arts backgrounds. I bet they have never written a computer program in their lives. McLaughlin has done his homework and talked to some experts; he is worried. So am I.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:46
Bully Beef (Studio R. ...That's a Ten Four. Why do stressed out children in suspenders get to decide the fate of) ID#259282:
nations anyhow?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:22
skinny (Mo Re Go Ltd) ID#28994:
Moe - You recall that Barrick Gold somehow acquired $3 million cdn. ( $150 U.S.! ) and sent them off to Europe to see what they could do to raise the price of gold. I don't know where the $3 million went but I know where the price of gold has gone! I think Peter Monk has resigned as president of Barrick Gold. Is Mulroney still a director?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:18
Gazebo (Gold mining stocks.....) ID#430212:
No matter what news that comes out, whether it's good or bad for gold, it is taken negatively for gold. It is a NO WIN situation. The only upturn we will see in Gold is when the dollar declines relative the other currencys, mainly the yen

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 21:00
HopeFull (SHORTAGES..........) ID#402148:

And now my brother, who builds ships, says he can not get delivery on STEEL PLATE, of all things....and they are having to STOCKPILE it when they can get it. I am having a hard time beleiving BLS PPI stats.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:59
MoReGoLd (@skinny) ID#348286:
Of course, cANADA is the land of the old-boys-network and the politcally-correct.
Latest example: bRIAN mULROONEY, easily the most hated ex-prime minister, was just appointed to the oRDER oF cANADA, the countries highest honor.
It soils all who deserve to be there.........

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:48
Steve - Perth__A (More on Russia & Thailand (apologies for source bias)) ID#284170:
Copyright © 1998 Steve - Perth__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

July 9, 1998

Interviewer: Tony Papert Guest: Nancy Spannaus

TONY PAPERT: Welcome to EIR Talks. This is Tony Papert, it's July 9, 1998, and with me in the studio is Nancy Spannaus, the editor of New Federalist, and a board member of EIR magazine. Hi, Nancy.


EIR: Nancy, the so-called Asia economic crisis began almost exactly one year ago. Over that year, and even before, Lyndon LaRouche and EIR were saying that it was simply the opening phase of a world systemic breakdown crisis, unless certain measures were taken. During the same period, our American television and media have said nothing of the sort, haven't even breathed a whisper of it, until the past several weeks, when there's been a change. Could you tell us about that?

NANCY SPANNAUS: Sure. What happened is that about the middle of June, the U.S. media and some leading spokesmen in the financial establishment of the United States, or the publicist layer of the financial establishment, began to come out and say the kind of things that were previously only being said in the European press, or the Indonesian press, or the Chinese press, about the actual danger of the Asian, so-called Asian financial crisis imploding the entire world. This has been the case since the break that occurred back in October of 1997; it's been well recognized as such all over the financial establishment. There've been non-stop bankers' meetings, starting in December of last year, but very little has actually trickled out to the U.S. public.

And people here have just been fed with delusion that the stock market boom's going to go on forever, higher and higher; they should take out money on their credit cards to bet more on the market. They should vanquish their pensions in order to do that, and so forth and so on. So it's been insane, and people like Greenspan, and others, have been trying to manage everything, even though it's inherently unmanagable, without a New Bretton Woods approach, which Mr. LaRouche has been pushing, and we at EIR and in the LaRouche movement have been agitating about.

So, starting in the middle of June, however, when the Asia crisis had hit a second phase, and it was beginning to move heavily into the Russia and Brazil situations -- as LaRouche had projected -- we began to see some signs of sanity. And I think there are some interesting things that should be brought to our listeners' attention.

For example, at an Economic Strategy Institute conference in Washington on June 29, Clyde Prestowitz, who's known for Japan-bashing -- he's an economic guru -- actually made some very cogent statements about the crisis.

[excerpts from Prestowitz on Asia crisis being a world crisis, and the need for Japan to suspend the Big Bang.]

He's not the only one. Before that, there was Roger Altman, who was a Treasury official in the Clinton administration, and a very well-connected investment banker, close to the Rubin circles, and so forth. And he wrote an oped in the International Herald Tribune and the L.A. Times, which actually said, ``Those who think that the mighty United States is immune to such forces of financial collapse, are wrong. This is a dangerous moment.''

This kind of thing has not been said to the American people, and, of course, this wasn't said officially, but it was put out.

And then you've had even someone from the Federal Reserve bureaucracy, out there in Minneapolis, and those of our viewers who actually subscribe to EIR will have seen an interview by a Mr. Rolnick, which also details the fact that we're in a serious, systemic financial crisis.

EIR: Thank you very much.....

[Commercial break]

- Russia is the Epicenter of the Crisis -

EIR: Welcome back to EIR Talks. This is Tony Papert, and with me is New Federalist editor Nancy Spannaus.

Nancy, within the past few days, Russia has become at least the public center of attention in this economic crash, with imminent fears of government default, and actual turmoil and chaos in Russia. What's going on there?

NANCY SPANNAUS: Russia is the epicenter of the world systemic crisis right now, and obviously, the second largest nuclear power on this planet going into a total breakdown -- which is what is threatened, not just a financial breakdown, but a social breakdown, potentially, military action, potentially, changes in government, or just total chaos could be breaking there.

The path Russia has been on under the IMF, from 1990 forward, has been way up on the stock markets, and way down in living standards and production. And now, the bubble part of it -- the stock market part -- has begun to collapse because of the hot money-flows out of Asia, looking for places that might be safe. It's a futile effort, but that's what's actually happening. So what was very hot last fall, is in total collapse right now.

The IMF is in there, desperate to try to save the situation. But the measures that they're proposing to save the situation -- measures which unfortunately have been adopted by the Yeltsin government, and Kiriyenko and forth -- are actually the measures which created the crisis in the first place. Increased tax collection, which is impossible under conditions where factories are shutting down, and people have no wages. And, selling off vast sections of the Russian wealth, particularly in the oil companies, the gas companies, looting the place totally insanely.

So, it's a very serious situation. The latest is that the IMF has promised $10 to $15 billion...

EIR: Which they don't have.

NANCY SPANNAUS: Russia. They don't have it. Russia owes, has to refinance at least $1 billion a week. So, if you look, here we are. What are we in? We're in the middle of 1998. If they were to get $15 billion, it would last them ... 15 weeks! Right? And the IMF doesn't even have, and the U.S. Congress has not passed an increased appropriation to this bill, and quite likely will not. And everybody is hanging on tenterhooks.

Particularly Europe, because about $75 billion is at stake from European banks having lent into Russia. But, of course, this is the Eurasian landmass, this is a major geopolitical center in the world, and when it blows, it will have impact on absolutely everybody in that area.

So, it's a very dangerous situation. The good news is that there are signs of an emerging alternate leadership to the International Monetary Fund and Yeltsin there. Yeltsin forces and those behind him are aware of it. I think that's what's behind the mysterious murder of a leading retired military man, Lev Rokhlin, that happened on July 3. This was a very suspicious story to all Russians. Because it seemed as though the police knew who confessed before they could have investigated more than one whit! They claimed that the man's wife shot him at 4 in the morning. There was no evidence to that effect. In fact, the man's daughter said the wife was forced to confess. So, this is a man who had threatened to lead the military in political strikes -- not a coup -- but political activity to topple Yeltsin, because of the hideous conditions of military men and former military men, under the conditions of IMF austerity.

So, that's happening. There are strikes, particularly among the coal mining, the strategic coal-mining sector. This is an area where the coal miners have cut off the Trans-Siberian Railroad for a number of days -- they had done it a number of months back -- they are doing it again. They've been joined by teachers, by doctors, by defense workers in Moscow, they're occupying Red Square. And this is a situation which could blow in any number of ways, and obviously, the Clinton administration, anybody who's thinking in world financial circles, is desperate to cover it over. Clinton has promised to go there -- that was probably a confidence-building measure in a certain sense. Yet, unless people honestly say, as some of the opposition is, in Russia, that this is a systemic crisis, that we have to go back to production, that we have to clamp down on speculation, that we need great projects, then this is going to devolve. And you can rapidly see Russia becoming like Albania, becoming like Africa in terms of civilizational collapse, and that having a spillover effect on a global scale.

EIR: Or Albania with nuclear weapons, as Helga LaRouche has said.

NANCY SPANNAUS: Yes, Albania with nuclear weapons. It's a very frightening thought, to see what this could mean for the world's future.

[Commercial break]

EIR: Welcome back to EIR Talks. This is Tony Papert, and with us is Nancy Spannaus, the editor of New Federalist newspaper. We were talking about the world economic crisis, also called the Asia economic crisis. Nancy, in the location where this crisis first broke in July of 1997, in Thailand, there have been recent quite striking developments. Could you tell us about them?

- Kra Canal on the Table Again in Thailand -

NANCY SPANNAUS: Yes. I'm particularly impressed by the fact that the approach of the Thais is not just an anti-IMF approach. That is also very important. The Thais have a strong anti-colonial tradition, and over the past six months, in particular, increasingly people have begun to mobilize -- all the way up to the King, in effect -- to say, IMF austerity, increased taxes, increased prices for imports and so forth, these things are killing us, and we need to free ourselves of what's effectively IMF colonialism. They formed a grouping called the Free Thai movement, in effect.

But just at the beginning of July, we got a report in the English-language major newspaper in Bangkok, called The Nation, that there had been an additional element added to the mobilization of the Thais, which was a conference of academics, which discussed re-instituting the Kra Canal project.

Now, probably there aren't a lot of our listeners who remember the Kra Canal, but Mr. LaRouche and our movement first began talking about this back in 1983 -- at least then, maybe before -- as one of the several major infrastructure projects in the Asia-Pacific Basin, that was required in order to turn this area into a developed, developing section of the world economy, to improve transportation lines, and transportation efficiency, to use these infrastructure projects...

What the Kra Canal would do, is to cut through the Isthmus of Kra, which is the southern part of Thailand. And it would mean that ships that now go through a whole number of islands, would be able to cut, I think a 1000 miles, or more than that -- you may remember -- off the trip, and it would also be the occasion to be able to develop that part of Thailand. You'd have a canal, which could have cities, and everything that goes with cities, in terms of bringing people out of poverty, and rubber plantations, or whatever they have there at the moment.

But what was important about what these academics said, was not just, we need a project, and the fact that it was the right project. But was that the reason for such an infrastructure project is to get out of an economic depression. Now, those who have seen Mr. LaRouche's New Bretton Woods speech, for example, from March 18 of this year, will recall that he said there are three elements required to get out of this civilizational crisis. You need to recognize it as a systemic financial crisis; you need to take revolutionary measures in order to actually change the premises of economic behavior entirely -- go to national banking, eliminate speculation in currencies, and so forth and so on; but thirdly, you need forced draft economic development along the lines that Franklin Delano Roosevelt actually carried out with the TVA project, and other such projects -- which were the model for the world in the post-World War II period.

So this is what the academics said. They said-- and when I say academics, many Americans will think that it's some kind of fruitloop somewhere. But in these developing nations, as in our nation when it was young, academics are very connected with the military, with industrial planners, with those who are concerned with building the nation through infrastructure, and that's what these academics were involved in. In fact, we have good reason to believe that EIR's writings were actually part of the thinking that went into the proposal that we need the Kra Canal -- this is the approach to build out of the depression, this will bring in capital, but not in order to loot our population, but capital in order to do something productive, long-term capital.

And that this approach will contribute to the integration of the region. It will actually connect, as some of these people understand, with the Eurasian Land-Bridge proposal that Mr. and Mrs. LaRouche have been proposing as a world development project, required to get the world out of depression. And they are anxious to mobilize people to a different approach from the IMF. As many people may or may not know -- it's actually done it here in the United States for years -- is come in and say, ``In order to survive under these conditions of crisis, you have to cut all your infrastructure projects.'' They forced Indonesia to do that; I think Malaysia, despite its desire not to do so, was forced to cancel a bridge project, which was part of the Eurasian Land-Bridge. But this approach has to be dumped, and the Thais are showing some real leadership on that question.

[Commercial break]

EIR: Welcome back to EIR Talks. This is Tony Papert. With me is Nancy Spannaus, the editor of New Federalist and a board member of EIR magazine.

Nancy, the General Motors strike continues to expand. It now involves more than 160,000 workers. What does it mean?

- GM Strike vs. Globaloney -

NANCY SPANNAUS: What we're dealing with here, is a prototypical conflict over the issue of globalization of the world economy. GM is the only one of the three major auto companies that has maintained a certain amount of in-house capability for vertically integrated production of its autos. Therefore, as opposed to setting up, to outsourcing, all of its small parts to Third World countries, in order to get them at a tenth of the cost, it has maintained plants in places like Flint, Michigan, where this strike actually began, that include the whole gamut. And right now, because they are in a situation where demand for cars is shrinking, the financial regimen demands that they cut costs. So, if they stay within the rules of the game of the globalized economy, GM is really being pushed to do what Ford and Chrysler have done before. Which is to downsize, to lay off a lot of workers, to shut down a lot of plants, and to move a good deal more of their production -- not that they don't already have substantial production in Mexico, which they do -- but to move a good deal more of it offshore, which would mean the destruction, even more definitively, of what remains of the auto industry in Flint, Michigan, and other parts of the American Midwest in particular.

Now, that's from the company side. From the union side, they understand this as well, because they are being asked to sign on to working conditions that are absolutely miserable. They are expecting to lose jobs and they are demanding job security. But they are in a sense, in a losing battle to defend themselves, because it's the logic of this globalized financial system which is demanding that GM treat their workers like slave-laborers.

So, it's a real standoff here. What's often said in the press is, well, GM's losing a lot of money. I don't think that's the operative point here. GM may figure into losing a lot of money just in order to figure out how they're going to restructure, in order to try to survive in a down-sized world.

So, what really has to be addressed by the union, by anyone in GM who's still concerned about production, as opposed to making profits, and by people throughout the United States, other workers, is that here you have a test case of an industry which is dying. The globalizing economy says, effectively, these kinds of manufacturing industries are not going to exist in the 21st century. And the only way to approach it, is to say: junk the globalization system, and go back to a system which pours credit into producing, and at decent wages. Provides education, builds up these plants again. And that requires, can only be done, if we have a New Bretton Woods approach, which means bankruptcy reorganization for the old debt, and setting up a basis where companies that want to produce on the long term, can actually get the credit to be able to do it.

EIR: National economy, instead of global economy.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:45
STUDIO.R (@God of Fire............) ID#288369:
And a Mighty Salute to You!!!! ( as always )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:44
Prometheus (@Bully Beef) ID#217239:
I don't think it's something we'd do on Bart's dime. Perhaps if you'd like to open up a Phillips is a #$@##%$@%# chat group? Tempting.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:44
skinny (Mo Re Go Ltd.) ID#28994:
The Supreme Court of Canada are politically appointed lackeys. You are probably aware that in the last few years, there have not been many intelligent decisions handed down by that court. They seem to adhere to what is politically correct, not to intelligent decisions. They would be the last group that I would want making a decision regarding the use of the internet.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:41
Prometheus (@Studio.r) ID#217239:
You are the man. I drink to and the fulfillment of your wishes.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:39
STUDIO.R (@Trading places...........) ID#288369:
Copyright © 1998 STUDIO.R/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My wish for the year 2000 is that all of the poor, economically-terrorized workers, immigrants, nationals and foreign slaves rotting in the sweat shops of the world be replaced by the smooth talking, hedonistic Wall Street Bastards that thrive on these huddled masses for a period of 365 days. And let these lily-handed, winged-tipped bastards earn thirty cents an hour to ensure the street-forecasted earnings of these publicly-trading rapist corporations. And then, let us hear from these virginal-sweating, robber-baron bastards of their new interpretation of the value of P/E ratios. sobeit.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:37
Grizz (Mr. Mick re your 19:06 about my 23:08 last night on TRADING with GOLD) ID#434298:
Copyright © 1998 Grizz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The only way out that I see is above ground legitimacy of Gold and Silver coins used in common day-to-day circulation. That way if I had a hundred dollars cash at any one time - it would be in Gold and Silver. I can't afford to lock up that much - not to be used again.
Some figure a black market would develop. Yes it would. But as you say, there is a lot of risk being caught with a stray Gold or Silver coin. They can already scan you for metal whether it is an airport or a traffic stop. When you dump all your metal out to be examined - jigs up. Your screwed and going to jail for felony possession. Could be worse than having a joint. They know that goldbugs are likely to be gun nuts and food hoarders - both of which also are illegal. So they use the gold possession as probable cause to search your car. Lo and behold - what's this? A 25 caliber Raven! On to the house or apartment. Now you're in BIG trouble. You've got over 90 days of food stockpiled AND they've found your stash of PM coins, guns, ammo and worst of all - your unregisterd computer that you use to foment criticism of the government and even revolution! Boy - they're gonna lock you up and throw away the key!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:26
Steve - Perth__A (The vultures have landed in Korea...(Freudian slip!)) ID#284170:
and other news links

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:26
Bully Beef (If we were all very brave we could start to slander Philips Service Corps. and) ID#259282:
see if they could sue us.The whole internet could raise it's voice as one and slander them and leave the courts with an impossible task.All I can say to the Judge is...What a lousy precedent to set!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:25
Steve - Perth__A (The vultures have land in Korea...) ID#284170:
and other news links

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:19
Bully Beef (I think Reify and Old Gold are going to jump on the Japanese Bandwagon.) ID#259282:
The Japanese must have hit rock bottom.I don't think they could be anything but up soon. Are their Banks stable yet? Even at a snails pace a little money spent the right way might bring a fair return. It seems to me their market touched 15000 and was up to 16500 in about 2 weeks. Thats like 10% isn't it. To me thats a good thing. Although it has lost some since then.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:13
Bully Beef (Pmf...I am aware of Greenline and I should persue it.) ID#259282:
Using Bank of Montreal but not as good. I know a Bof M employee who swears ( off the record ) on Greenline. Thanks for Info.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:13
Prometheus (@Antitank mines? Sounds like the war in) ID#217239:
Kosovo is heating up.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:06
MoReGoLd (@The end of freedom of speech on the NET F all of them LAWYERS) ID#348286:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From the Financial Post Fri July 10/98
Philip pierces Net secrecy

Court decision gives beleaguered company access to names and addresses of people who have
made negative comments about the firm in Internet chat group

The Financial Post
Philip Services Corp., its stock decimated by a barrage of writedowns and troubling accounting practices, has quietly won a court
order forcing about a dozen Internet providers to cough up names and addresses of people who posted negative comments about
the firm in an Internet chat group.
The move has potentially chilling implications for privacy and the Internet. It means Canadians who exchange information and
opinions in chat groups have lost the traditional cloak of anonymity and can be held liable for what they say.
The order, granted by Ontario Court Justice Nick Borkovich in Hamilton, was made ex parte - without Internet providers,
including America Online Inc., AOL's CompuServe division, iStar Internet Inc. and Weslink Datalink Corp., being notified or
present to make arguments.
It instructs the providers to hand over to Philip names, addresses, e-mail addresses, telephone numbers, computer serial numbers
and other information for a specific list of messages posted on Yahoo in April, May and June.
It doesn't stop there. The providers were also told to preserve all other messages sent by such persons through the Internet
And they were ordered to supply Philip with the real identity of the users who posted messages under pseudonyms - common
practice in chat groups.
Philip was granted leave to examine the information, although that decision was later reserved pending another hearing.
The court also ruled that the files be sealed and expressly forbade the company, its employees and agents to publish, speak about
or distribute this order or any documents provided with the order.
Many of the messages, which can still be read, appear to make allegations of criminal activity against Philip executives and
express fears of what might happen to anyone who exposes too much about the firm's activities.
But Philip spokeswoman Lynda Kuhn said it was company employees who felt threatened by what they were reading. That's why
Philip decided to act. She said some of the worst messages have now been pulled by Yahoo at Philip's request.
The tone of the board became increasingly malicious and downright defamatory, Kuhn said.
It libelled employees of the company, issued threats of stalking, a whole range of ethnic slurs, and got to the point where
employees were very concerned. So the company decided it was going to take action. At least one service provider, Weslink, said
yesterday in a letter to Philip's lawyers it was complying with the request and provided information.
John Gallagher, a former member of Hamilton city council in 1985-91, had his name, address and telephone number turned over.
Gallagher, a municipal activist who walks with a cane as a result of a spinal injury received in a car accident, scoffed at notions he
is threatening. He said he stands by what he wrote, but disagrees with the judge's decision to grant the motion ex parte - denying
him a chance to speak.
I'm disturbed that I wasn't present, or that I didn't have a representative present, to make submissions, he said. I believe I had
good reason for using aliases.
Gallagher, who said he has never owned Philip shares, also said he's troubled by the fact Weslink provided his name.
I'm a little surprised that my server would not fight this vigorously and I have a lot of concern - and I'm sure a lot of Internet
providers will feel this as well - that they didn't fight this all the way to the Supreme Court [of Canada].
Weslink said in a late-day statement it views customer information as private to be utilized only for the purposes for which it has
been provided. It said rather than complying with the original order, it went back to the court and was able to have the scope
narrowed somewhat.
Lawyer Alan Gahtan, who is co-writing a book on Internet law, said obliging a provider to turn over all messages sent by a
particular user is troubling.
I think it's a serious infringement on privacy, said Gahtan, with the law firm Bennett Jones Verchere. It sounds like they went
too far.
It's almost like someone could go in and look at all the books that you've read. They can go in and get all messages. Well, when
you extrapolate it, does it mean that someone can go in and get an order for every Web page you've looked at? You're getting into
someone's head.
People shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet to commit illegal acts, such as libel, said George Takach, who heads the high-tech
practice at McCarthy Tétrault.
He predicted this case will send a definite signal.
It'll definitely be a wake-up call to that part of the Internet culture that views the Internet as no-man's land where you can do
anything and get away with anything.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 20:06
SDRer__A (Woody--yes, Supply and Demand...newer [hence fewer] Euros and quadrillions of old tired USD ) ID#28594:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yves-Thibault de SILGUY
Responsible for economic, monetary and financial affairs

The euro and Global Financial Markets

Financial commentators frequently speculate on the future of European foreign exchange reserves. There are a number of reasons which suggest that there will be a reduction in the overall volume of foreign exchange reserves in the euro area:

the conversion into euros of central bank holdings of currencies of countries participating in the euro zone;

the elimination of the reserves needed to meet the cash requirements associated with the financing of trade in the euro area;

finally, the removal of the need for intervention to stabilise the currencies of the countries participating in economic and monetary union.

Does it follow that there will be surplus dollars in European central banks' coffers?

COMMENT: Woody, the problem has been getting the dollar UP...hence the clever spin doctors...and they've got to keep it up for five more months.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:57
Texasgoldpost (I learn something every day, George...) ID#37292:
And, you should know there ain't nothin' hotter than a cowchip fire. I'd say ol' bossy dried up from the heat, but we get our milk now from the how times have changed.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:53
crazytimes (@ Prometheus and Mozel) ID#342376:
In Bart's message about the changes in Kitco, ie error 404, I remember him talking about the loss of ANOTHER as an example of what happens when our posters are somewhat more than critical about other posters. LGB was very critical, to say the least, of ANOTHER. It's possible he got error 404. I can't think of anyone else, except of course Mozel, who left on his own. Mozel, are you out there? I wish you would come back.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:42
Prometheus (@Hi, crazytimes) ID#217239:
Thanks for keeping us posted on all the Veneroso stuff.

No. Haven't seen F* or LGB since 404 day. Anyone else missing?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:41
George__A (Texasgoldpost) ID#433172:
Un yeah it includes that. The way I understand it it includes anything of biological origin,vegetable or animal. It's all hydrocarbon and it all burns. Pretty hot down there on the ranch? How those cows taking it?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:41
Prometheus (@Hey, guys) ID#217239:
you all think this alien talk is pretty funny, but you know that more people believe in alien visitors than think WJC is honest. Such a world!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:39
crazytimes (The talk of Aliens today should have brought out LGB, aka Liberty....) ID#342376:
I wonder if he got Error 404........

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:26
pdeep (Some thoughts on asia) ID#174103:
Copyright © 1998 pdeep/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have not seen much discussion of the effects of the Asian depression on Asian govt. revenues. This is especially true of Japan, which I heard will have to come with $600 billion to cover a revenue shortfall due to the economic contraction. I have no idea what the figures are for other Asian countries. From my small understanding of economics, it would appear that the shortfall will have to be made up by either 1 ) decreasing expenditures or 2 ) generating debt. Since 1 ) is not very popular with politicians, it would appear that 2 ) is more likely. In which case, wouldn't the generation of more sovereign debt further depress Asian currencies over the next fiscal year or two?

I have never understood how the Japanese can convince anyone to buy their bonds at around 1.5% given the current rates in the rest of the world, and given the currency risk caused by a looming oversupply. And the fact that Hashimoto ( if he survives the election ) is promising a tax cut further increases the risk, unless the tax cut revs up the economic engines. Any ideas?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:25
woody (SDRer) ID#24563:
What am I missing? How can 1Euro=1USD be maintained....isn't the forex market subject to the market forces of supply and demand? How much is the ECB willing to spend to keep this ratio and how long can they continue to defend the EURO if it comes under attach?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:23
IDT (Russian military eating dog food) ID#228128:
As further evidence of the disintegration in Russia, I heard a report on the evening news, ABC I believe, that the Russians are feeding dog food to their troops. They had a couple of million pounds stockpiled.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:23
SDRer__A (Donald--subliminal -- Past time to take a ) ID#280245:
break! {:- ( (

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:21
SDRer__A (Donald--Gurdging is the sublimal response {:-))) ID#280245:
I meant, of course, grudging admiration...sneaky things, minds {:- ) )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:17
Texasgoldpost (Say George....) ID#37292:
Don't know your term biomass -- is that anything like the cow patties we have down here on the ranch?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:08
SDRer__A (Donald--yes, they have it fairly well in line right now...) ID#280245:
The difference between USD 1.08 = 1 Euro ( 7/8/98 ) may be acceptable, given the unstable nature of the surrounding world. They've done their
work remarkably well ( gurdging admiration )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:06
Mr. Mick (Grizz, your 23:08 of last night - you still haven't explained how one might trade) ID#345321:
with gold/silver and not be turned in to the authorities. I don't see a way to do it.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:01
George__A (Squirril--Gunrunner) ID#433172:
Copyright © 1998 George__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Squirril-- Aliens are hypothetical of course,it would be a mistake to identify our problem by the introduction of a furthur complication. Somehow fits in a nasty sort of way tho.

Gunrunner-- The title of the book is Licit and Illicit Drugs by Edward Brecher and the editors of Consumer Reports. It has 540 pages and a large index andnote section. Published in 1972 by the Consumers Union. They use the same approach to drugs as they do to all else. Essentially, pot gets a clean bill of health, not an entry drug, so does LSD and other psychedelics. The really dangerous drugs are all described in detail.

My gold stocks seem to have bottomed out? They are not going lowere as they have the past several weeks alto they are at or near the 52 week lows.

Anyone else think it's pretty HOT, clear up into Canada, even beyond the first tier of Provinces. If this keeps up we could lose a lot of biomass. I'm begining to wonder, how about you?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 19:00
Donald (@SDRer) ID#26793:
Am I correct in reading your work to say that gold has a floor; but it does not necessarily have to reach that floor under your scenario?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:58
SDRer__A (Bill2J--When something has been forcibly contained for a long time...) ID#280245:
and spun-to-death with lies about its STATUS as a financial asset, one
reasonably expects it to EXPLODE skyward when the moment of release comes!

If there are no MAJOR disasters [end of the world kind] then we have to
wait five months. We can handle that, yes? {:- ) )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:57
gagnrad (Squirrel) ID#43460:
Don't know man! They've compromised my position and I'm going to have to sign off tonight. They slipped some BEER in with that 5 pounds of crawfish I just had and my coordination is off! So you'll have to go up on the roof and write We have gold here in the secret alien writing so they'll know where to land. IMHO


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:54
SDRer__A (Chinese Devaluation...) ID#280245:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
PART Two-Chinese Devaluation

Chinese Devaluation--
The Chinese have already had their covert devaluation, cleverly against the Euro, which will be here in five short months, and so in five months there will be a devaluation of the CNY which will pass unnoticed.
And the Chinese leaders gain credence for being men of their word; political currency counts.

1 Euro = 8.969399 CNY

As of January 1, 1999 the CNY will be effectively devalued against the USD. Without the Chinese lifting a finger.

1 Euro = 8.969399 1 Euro = 1 USD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:54
Bill2j (@SDRer) ID#259400:
Boy, you have no idea how relieved I was to know we only have another 8-9% downside in the price of gold ( 292-269 ) . Course that means about a drop of 25-30% in gold stocks but what they hey, only 5 more months till we hit ( crash ) the bottom. Then, of course, the problem is what will cause this crashed commodity to go up again. Perhaps some new jewelry concept will come along. Perhaps a resurgance of the 70's style gold sunburst medallions. That would mean Rayon will make a comeback also. All Right. Heavy.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:51
Tantalus Rex (Veneroso @Craytimes) ID#295111:
Interesting post Crazytimes. I like Veneroso a lot, I'm a big fan of his. He puts forth strong arguments...but he has been wrong quite a bit lately. Personally I wouldn't touch Asia at this time but I will when I see an ECB like facility set up there.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:49
EB (*stuff*) ID#230216:
Fin of Sharing - I know they are others opines. And as to gold vs. may very well affect the POG. But, gold will not go to 800/oz or something crazy like that ( imo ) . It will trade between it's historice value of 250-400 ( or so ) ..........with average at 370 ( or so ) . Gold will not be meteoric.......uh uh.

Crystal Buddy Ball - I got out of ALL grains the morning of the limit move ( before it went limit ) . Lost some profits but then again I never really own the profits until they're sold, YES? and...Sugar FLAT ( ? ) today Didn't look that way to me. Buy the dippys......yipee!

Eldo - welcome back now and again ;- ) I like sugar too...the cocoa may have some more downside, no? who knows....

MSWORD LAD - I tossed a grenade at ya........toss somethin comin' to Monterey? The Aquarium is a must see.

KUSTON - YES. Those calls are WAY expensive.

this is one of my favy URLs for option volatility and price and days till expiry. Updated daily and with numbers I like. Maybe you should sell some out-o-money puts Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm collect some of that premium D.A. is talking about. Don't get caught with your hand in the cookie jar.............. ( ugh ) . You know my thoughts on silver.....I think right after that silver conversation I three putted a par three 'cause I got pissed. We really have no choice but to chase it from here to the end-o-the-world.......a bit of insurance if you will ;- )

I will buy the Plat dips as well........'till the cows come home. Played Papago since our fateful day

DJ - those channels please...

away...back to work


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:47
Mtn Bear (SE) (Gold path @SDR) ID#347267:
At long last must agree. Path of least resistance is lower.
To go with previous acronyms:
ASB ( As Before ) ; NASB ( Not AS Before -- Meaning UP ) ;
New one: LTB ( Lower than Before )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:38
SDRer__A (GOLD -for the next five months-has a DOWNSIDE bias…here's why) ID#280245:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

PART ONE of Three

( A. ) Remember this: 23.2. The mechanism for the CREATION of ECUs AGAINST GOLD AND US DOLLARS as provided for by Article 17 of the EMS Agreement…

Gold HAS to move lock-step with USD:EURO

The stated intention has been to have the USD enter against the EURO as close to 1:1 as possible.

The implicit intention is for Germany to have the ratio of the USD:DEM such that the EURO can be sold as not such a bad loss, see where almost at that exchange rate against the USD anyway, and going forward, we will be EQUAL TO the USD.

One holds in mind that, in a five short months the European currencies [and we are here most concerned with the Dmark ) will be frozen in place, irrevocably. They will exist ONLY as units of the Euro, although the national currency will still be a tangible presence; it will NO LONGER be a monetary presence. What does that have to do with gold?

They mean for 1 USD = 1 EURO with gold as the 'balancer'

1 Euro = 1.0833 USD.
1 Euro = 1.9808 DEM

on January 1, 1999, it will look like this: 1 USD = 1 Euro/dmark/Frf/etc. The national currencies CEASE to have a MONETARY PRESENCE as of 1/1/99 ( although one can still pay for things using them, an automatic conversion will be made and one will be paying in Euros…


1 ounce XAU = EURO 268.306 ( approximately ½ of DM gold price )
1 ounce XAU = 530.94 DEM
1 ounce XAU = 292.40 USD
For the 1 USD = 1 Euro, absolute parity, gold must move to $269.444

This is gold's floor. $269.444.
Which on 1 Jan 1999 also becomes Euro 269.444-as gold's price in Euro terms is ALREADY $268.306 [7/8/98], it is in place-almost. So gold will move down in dollar terms… or
If they don't mind the dollar entering the pool at 1.08 to the Euro we're already close, very close, to the to the floor.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:35
Dave (@ don't forget to get some, ) ID#269207:
and give to those that need some,: ) ) )
and have a happy weekend ^s^

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:34
crazytimes (Here is that Veneroso report GoldDancer talked about. ) ID#342376:
Copyright © 1998 crazytimes/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Global Economy
                                                 South East Asia
                                 · A Major Call to Buy Emerging Asia

               It has been our view that the economies of Thailand, Indonesia,
and Korea would remain in serious trouble until the disastrous deflationary
policies of the IMF and the US Treasury were abandoned.  Our reasons for this
are spelled out in our early 1997 piece, A Long Run Perspective on Asia , and
in our paper, The Asian Crisis: The High Debt Model Versus the Wall Street-
Treasury-IMF Complex .  Our associate Robert Wade repeated our arguments in a
recent personal view column in the June 23 Financial Times entitled Asian
Water Torture.  In recent days we have seen the first moves toward a
departure from deflationary IMF policies.
Indonesia is cutting interest rates despite high inflation and will have a
budget deficit of 8.5% of GDP.  Of greater significance has been similar moves
in Korea to lower interest rates and cut taxes, thereby raising the fiscal
deficit from 1% to 4% of GDP.
SEOUL, July 8 ( Bloomberg ) - The South Korean government urged banks to cut
lending rates to help stem bankruptcies and encourage companies to make
investments that can revive a shrinking economy.
I understand many banks already mapped out plans to lower prime lending
rates, said Chung Keun Yong, the head of the financial policy division of the
Finance and Economy Ministry, speaking on Korean television.
The proposal comes as banks have cut the annual interest they pay on deposits
to as low as 12% while maintaining average lending rates above 17%.  To help
lower market rates, the Korean government will discuss ways to expand money
supply as well as revise economic policies and targets during meetings with an
International Monetary Fund delegation from today, a ministry official said.
The government cut market rates to as low as 12% by the end of next month,
local newspapers said.  The IMF has said it is happy for rates to come down
over time provided this doesn't weaken the currency and make it harder for
Korea and its companies to repay its debts.  The won strengthened 30% against
the dollar in the past six months, prompting speculation the Korean central
bank may sell won for dollars to stem its rise.
       Lower rates will help stem a raft of corporate defaults by reducing the
cost of repaying an estimated $600 billion of corporate debt and making it
cheaper for companies to borrow more money for investment.  Korea needs to
boost spending to stimulate its economy, which may have contracted at an
annual rate of at least 4% in the first half of the year, its deepest
recession in four decades.

              It appears that Korea has taken these steps without IMF
approval.  It also appears that the IMF is acquiescing.  The Koreans and the
IMF probably both now realize that the IMF and US Treasury policies have been
disastrous.  We do not fear that lower interest rates in Korea will weaken the
Korean won.  In a recent conference at the World Bank, chief economist Joseph
Stiglitz argued that there is no empirical evidence that lower rates weaken a
currency.  In the case of South East Asia, it is now clear that high real
rates, by creating bankruptcies and depression, have caused foreign capital to
flee the region, thereby weakening local currencies.  Interest rates in Korea
have been falling for many months and the won has rallied from 1800 to 1300.
The Koreans cut  interest rates yesterday and the won rallied from 1330 to
1300.  Yet lower interest rates in Asia will strengthen the Asian currencies.
We are surprised that Korea has made these moves.  Kim Dae Jung was following
the US Treasury line more closely than any other Asian leader.  To us this
shows that the need for reflationary policies is so obvious that they will be
adopted, and to an increasing degree, in ASEAN and Korea.  This is what is
needed to generate a recovery in emerging Asia.  We believe that the steps now
being taken in Japan will have a more positive effect on the Japanese economy
than market participants expect.  Simon Hunt reports that China is now moving
to increase its pump priming with the objective of raising economic growth
above an 8% rate by late this year.  The regional Asian economic environment
should be more supportive of recovery in ASEAN and Korea as the year
There are additional reasons for expecting an abandonment of the disastrous
policies of the IMF and US Treasury in Asia.  We are seeing more and more open
discussion in the editorials in Asian newspapers of the critique of IMF
policies made months ago by Jeff Sachs, James Tobin, Martin Feldstein, Jagdish
Bhagwhati and ourselves.  UNCTAD's chief macro economist has recently
published a paper with the same assessment.  We have no doubt that, at the
level of policy makers throughout Asia, this same assessment is being made.
Faced with the disastrous consequences of their actions, the IMF and Treasury
are slowly caving to this emerging new consensus about the Asian crisis.
This assessment was presented to Treasury Secretary Rubin on July 1st by the
Korean Confederation of Trade Unions ( KCTU ) .  Their document was not a mere
trade union position paper.  It was  extremely comprehensive and intelligently
argued.  A document of this sophistication could only be the result of a
consensus among Korea's best minds in economic policy circles in government,
universities, and corporations as well as the labor unions.  This document
also demonstrates how this new assessment with its critique of IMF/Treasury
policies now dominates the thinking of grass roots political organizations
that heads of states and policy makers in Asia are accountable to.  When a new
consensus runs this deep politically, it wins the day.  We have been concerned
that rising unemployment in Korea could create serious civil strife emanating
from Korea's militant labor unions.  The balance and intelligence of this KCTU
document allays our fears over labor unrest in Korea
Looking further forward, we expect more dramatic developments.  In our
January piece, A Long Term Perspective On Asia, we argued that Asians know
that the Asian development model works and that they would not abandon it as a
result of pressure from the IMF and the US Treasury.  Ultimately, this would
require a regional balance of payments finance facility that would accommodate
Asian financial structures rather than imposing Western ( Basle ) parameters of
financial prudence.  Last fall the Asian nations under Japanese leadership
moved to create such a facility, only to be met by especially fierce US

              Lastly, there is a need to recognize the unintended ill-
effects---unforeseen aggravation---of the IMF's traditional prescription and
mode of intervention in the Asian crisis.  The Asian development model, while
containing some of the key elements which gave rise to the current crisis,
also contains the very dynamic elements which made the 'miraculous' growth
over such a short period.  The effort to consolidate on the unique positive
elements---while making efforts to eradicate the negative aspects at the same
time---can contribute to the balanced development in the world economy.  The
IMF policy regime, however, has overlooked---or it may lie beyond capacity to
handle appropriately---the positive and dynamic elements in its virtual
blanket disavowal of the Asian economy---especially financial---system and
                In this light, it may be important for Asian nations and
peoples to develop and construct a basis of cooperation and mutual assistance
and support---both material and spiritual---amongst themselves.  It may be
necessary, therefore, for Asian nations to build a body--- an Asian version of
IMF or an Asian regional organization of the Fund which enjoys a significant
level of autonomy---which can serve as an Asian monetary fund.  If the US
government supports the idea of a worldwide convergence based on the respect
for cultural and regional differences, and, furthermore, recognizes that the
potential of each member in a community can be maximized on the basis of the
respect for diversity, then, it will be possible for the US to make a
significant contribution---as she has in building up APEC---towards the
creation of an Asian Monetary Fund.
The Korean labor union confederation made the following statements on this
issue to Rubin on July 1, 1998.

We expect that the issue of an Asian regional balance of payments finance
facility will come up shortly and will eventually become a reality.  When
market participants perceive this, there will be a dramatic change in capital
flows to Asia.  Western bankers, fearful of losing the Asian markets to Asia,
will fall all over themselves to lend to Asia once again.  Portfolio managers,
seeing an improvement in Asian currencies and financial access will run to get
on board the new Asian recovery bandwagon.  A hesitant currency and stock
market recovery based on an economic recovery once the IMF-US Treasury noose
is relaxed could quickly become a run on the part of Western short term
capital to get back into Asia before Asia closes its doors.  ¨

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:32
D.A. ( ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The bear case for silver rests in the big picture economic stuff. If Donald and others are correct that a deflation will engulf the world then kiss that silver ( and gold ) good bye. In order for this to happen, the Federal reserve will not only have to be asleep throughout the whole game, but the politicians will have to sit idly by while their constituents are showing up to their offices with hand grenades.

The argument for deflation rests on the fact that if asset prices begin to plunge then nothing the Fed does can reverse the trend. Those who believe in this scenario point to Japan as an example where really low interest rates have not spawned a self sustaining recovery. The big difference between Japan and the US is that what Japan can print are Yen and what the US can print are dollars. At the moment, the dollar is the world's reserve currency. If the BOJ prints up a tall tower of Yen, the value of the Yen may decline relative to other currencies at a rate even faster than the printing process. This devaluation would actually cause a net deflation in the world if dollars are the yardstick. The game is vastly different if the Fed engineers the same activity. There will be no other currency for people to run towards so the general price level will go up in dollar terms. This phenomenon is known as inflation and can be had at any time with the press of a button. For those who believe that lowering interest rates will do no good, the counter is that there are other ways to effect an inflation. They could simply split the currency 2 for 1, or 10 for 1 or any number they so chose. Simply turn in your old dollars for new ones at the rate of 2 for 1. Sounds crazy, but easily doable.

Note that a rise in the absolute price level does not mean that the economy is going to be fine. It may well decline dramatically in real terms. However, the crux of the matter is whether prices will decline in nominal terms. I continue to be believe the answer to this will be no.

As for Aron's current silver position, I honestly can not come up with a bearish scenario. I can think of no bearish reason why they would choose to take delivery of nearly 30 million ounces of Comex warrants. This does not mean that the price is going to up any time soon, but it does suggest that the biggest metals dealer in world has a loaded gun at the head of the market and can pull the trigger at their leasure. With two funds accounting for around 100 million ounces of short position, its hard for me to believe they don't have the crosshairs in alignment.

It was about a year ago with the price of silver at around 4.20 that I posed the idea that the chances of a one dollar move in silver up to 5.20 seemed extraordinarily higher than the chance of a decline to the 3.20 level. With the price at 5.30, the same thought experiment yields similar results. Unless you believe the Merrill nonsense about Buffett looking for a way out of his silver position, you are left with one outcome having a higher probablility than the other.

Time to get a snack.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:32
Squirrel (gagnrad - maybe meddling countries have not been screwing with breeding programs) ID#287186:
They wouldn't be purposely applying eugenics or disgenics.
Or have they?
Who knows what is buried in the bowels of our intelligence agencies?
Psych warfare writ large.
and used, for among other things, to wean us off Gold.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:30
Tantalus Rex (Get Your Balls to The Wall ) ID#295111:
Copyright © 1998 Tantalus Rex/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
If any of you Kitties out there don't have the balls to chat....

Philip pierces Net secrecy By SANDRA RUBIN in The Financial Post


Philip Services Corp., its stock decimated by a barrage of writedowns and troubling accounting practices, has quietly won a court order forcing about a dozen Internet providers to cough up names and addresses of people who posted negative comments about the firm in an Internet chat group. The move has potentially chilling implications for privacy and the Internet. It means Canadians who exchange information and opinions in chat groups have lost the traditional cloak of anonymity and can be held liable for what they say. The order, granted by Ontario Court Justice Nick Borkovich in Hamilton, was made ex parte ­ without Internet providers, including America Online Inc., AOL's CompuServe division, iStar Internet Inc. and Weslink Datalink Corp., being notified or present to make arguments.
It instructs the providers to hand over to Philip names, addresses, e-mail addresses, telephone numbers, computer serial numbers and other information for a specific list of messages posted on Yahoo in April, May and June. It doesn't stop there. The providers were also told to preserve all other messages sent by such persons through the Internet providers. And they were ordered to supply Philip with the real identity of the users who posted messages under pseudonyms ­ common practice in chat groups. Philip was granted leave to examine the information, although that decision was later reserved pending another hearing. The court also ruled that the files be sealed and expressly forbade the company, its employees and agents to publish, speak about or distribute this order or any documents provided with the order.
Many of the messages, which can still be read, appear to make allegations of criminal activity against Philip executives and express fears of what might happen to anyone who exposes too much about the firm's activities. But Philip spokeswoman Lynda Kuhn said it was company employees who felt threatened by what they were reading. That's why Philip decided to act. She said some of the worst messages have now been pulled by Yahoo at Philip's request.
The tone of the board became increasingly malicious and downright defamatory, Kuhn said. It libelled employees of the company, issued threats of stalking, a whole range of ethnic slurs, and got to the point where employees were very concerned. So the company decided it was going to take action. At least one service provider, Weslink, said yesterday in a letter to Philip's lawyers it was complying with the request and provided information.
John Gallagher, a former member of Hamilton city council in 1985-91, had his name, address and telephone number turned over. Gallagher, a municipal activist who walks with a cane as a result of a spinal injury received in a car accident, scoffed at notions he is threatening. He said he stands by what he wrote, but disagrees with the judge's decision to grant the motion ex parte ­ denying him a chance to speak. I'm disturbed that I wasn't present, or that I didn't have a representative present, to make submissions, he said. I believe I had good reason for using aliases. Gallagher, who said he has never owned Philip shares, also said he's troubled by the fact Weslink provided his name.
I'm a little surprised that my server would not fight this vigorously and I have a lot of concern ­ and I'm sure a lot of Internet providers will feel this as well ­ that they didn't fight this all the way to the Supreme Court [of Canada]. Weslink said in a late-day statement it views customer information as private to be utilized only for the purposes for which it has been provided. It said rather than complying with the original order, it went back to the court and was able to have the scope narrowed somewhat. Lawyer Alan Gahtan, who is co-writing a book on Internet law, said obliging a provider to turn over all messages sent by a particular user is troubling.
I think it's a serious infringement on privacy, said Gahtan, with the law firm Bennett Jones Verchere. It sounds like they went too far. It's almost like someone could go in and look at all the books that you've read. They can go in and get all messages. Well, when you extrapolate it, does it mean that someone can go in and get an order for every Web page you've looked at? You're getting into someone's head. People shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet to commit illegal acts, such as libel, said George Takach, who heads the high-tech practice at McCarthy Tetrault. He predicted this case will send a definite signal. It'll definitely be a wake-up call to that part of the Internet culture that views the Internet as no-man's land where you can do anything and get away with anything.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:28
JP (Inflations don't last for ever ) ID#253153:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In all the history of the world, as a rule, the greater the preceding inflationary period, the greater the depression that follows. As you know, inflation in the US started in late 40's and really ended in 1982. The high interest rates in 1982 broke the back of inflation. In 1982 the US entered into what I call a disinflationary period which lasted for 17 years and in my opinion ended in Feb 1988. During that period the Dow appreciated almost 10 times it's 1982 value, interest rates declined from 15% in 1982 to less than 6% today and the CPI declined from 14% to 2.0%. In Feb 1988, we entered a runaway deflationary phase. Let's examine where we are today ? The CRB recorded a new low today, it closed at 210.52. The long bond closed at 5.62% and wholesale prices were unchanged last month. I believe that from now on you will see deflation really accelerating resulting in rising unemployment and declining corporate profits. With Russia on the verge of defauling on its $70 b of external obligations to European , Japanese and American banks, the IMF probably will come to the rescue with it's last resources. I believe the IMF will cease to exist by the end of 1998 for lack of money. Economic conditions in the Far East are still deteriorating and it seems to me that Bazil is now sinking because of declining prices for the commodities they sell on world markets. American companies with sales in the Far East are being hammered. Applied Material ( large semi conductor equiment mfg ) just warned on profits outlook. Each day will bring more dismal news on all fronts. We will paying heavily for all the errors our fathers made . I know I sound very bearish but that is the truth and the way I see it. I was super bullish on common stocks between Aug 1982 to Feb 1998. You all have a nice weekend .

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:27
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, gunrunner, Namaste' gulp to ya...he ain't no James Brown...heh...heh) ID#373284:
The history of hemp in the US makes as much sense as having WJC as Pres.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:22
Squirrel (gagnrad - plausible idea. But maybe too mundane.) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Did you read the E.E. Doc Smith's Lensman series?
If not...
There is a sentient foward looking wise species who realize that our galaxy will be invaded by a conquering bunch of tyrants. By themselves this wise species realizes they can not defeat the invaders by themselves. So they nurture the humans to develop the technology and, more importantly, the mental powers to fight and conquer the invaders.
They do this with a very long range breeding program.

Could we be tools in a grander scheme?
Being bred and stimulated for a purpose?
Could the invaders also be here trying to sabotage this development?

Really not hard to imagine.
The US and Russia and many other developed nations have been doing the exact same thing with lesser countries for centuries.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:13
Squirrel (Golden - home of a fine school and fine beer) ID#287186:
How about the idea of Golden seceding from the Union
and issuing its own series of Gold coins denominated in Goldens.
How much is that puppy in the window?
Two Goldens.
How much is a Keg of Coors Extra Gold?
Six Goldens.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:09
gagnrad (squirrel, let me argue a bit here) ID#43460:
Copyright © 1998 gagnrad/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aliens holding us back? What if it is the opposite?

About 35 years ago there was a science fiction story on the subject where the conjecture that there was a question as to mankind was mature enough as a race to be fit for society with alien beings. So a test was devised where we were told to refit and rebuild some alien equipment. We were given the instructions but we had to reverse engineer everything ie build the tools to build the tools to build the equipment. What if this is the present scenerio? IMHO

What if there is a group of aliens who are trapped here and can't go home until they train us to build the tools to build the tools to rebuild their spaceship? Of course they wouldn't care if 99.99% of the race couldn't understand the concepts or help out. They'd be interested in developing the skills of the 00.01% who could build robotic assembly lines, design integrated circuits, splice genes and develop fusion ain a bottle. The rest of humanity would just be ants at the picnic. IMHO

These aliens would also be driving down the POG so they could make 100,000 pounds of golden gaskets, heat sinks and electical wires to operate their giant spaceship which is presently disguised as Pikes Peak. IMHO

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:03
gunrunner (T-1) ID#429121:
Copyright © 1998 gunrunner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The Hearst affair contributed to the war. The Federal Bureau of Narcotics was created in 1930, long after several southwestern states had begun restricting pot. Harry Anslinger was its first commissioner. He single-handedly convinced Congress in 1937 to pass the Marijuana Tax Act by manipulating testimony. No one was allowed to testify as to the beneficial effects - that included doctors, scientists, and users. The new federal law made cultivating and using the plant illegal without first getting a federal stamp ( which is hard to obtain. ) And so it goes, freedom, rights, and pursuit of happiness foiled by Congressional tax laws... again.... and again.... and again.

On another note: I've finally done it! I was able to cast bullets out of gold! Now when they come to confiscate my gold, I'll be glad to give it to them! Yoo-hooo, come and get it....

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 18:00
STUDIO.R (@T#1.........) ID#288369:
Mr. Annan ain't no James Brown.....ooooooooooowwwwwwhhhhhhhhh!
No Sirree, he just ain't got it, man.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:57
Aragorn III (You see, it is an engineering school that is to COOL for H's and not big on spelling!) ID#212323:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:55
JTF (Martin Armstrong's Russian note) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
IDT: Thanks. I did not realize the rationale behind the IMF lending US dollars rather than local currencies -- destructive. MA has said it better than any of us why the IMF is making things worse rather than better. His comments about Russia ring true with me also -- Yeltsin probably is a puppet of the Russian Mafia, and all that IMF money is just lining their pockets. Fear rules over Europe, because they dare not stop paying the Russian government bailout funds due to the nuclear threat. And default on all of those loans. But the clock is ticking, and sooner or later we will have a change in Russia -- hard to say -- revolution, perhaps. The US dollar and gold will rise, to the detriment of the rest of the world, especially Asia and SEAsia. That may also signal major disruption in Europe.

It worries me that the Japanese Mafia probably have control over Japan as well. Economic forces are moving in the world, and there are several areas where there is no evidence that things are getting better. It may be some time before we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief and see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I believe that we ( the human World ) will survive somehow -- but the next few years will not be pleasant. I like to believe also that I will live to see humans colonize the solar system and begin our destiny in the stars. We have alot of growing up to do. Too bad our financial system is so shaky.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:51
Aragorn III (Grizz...I've had them all...while attending the Colorado Scool of Mines...) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Coors had ( and still has! ) a pipeline running up to CSM. That's the good news. The bad news it that it only carries steam to heat the college.

Many Friday afternoons were spent, however, taking the plant Short Tour, which is the tour whereby us CSM students would skip the formalities of the whole plant scene and go straight to the hospitality bar. A great marketing plan, to be sure. Nostalgia ensures you will continue to drink Coors throughout your life. Yes, Killian's was a popular choice for me.

I enjoy Bass Ale, Guinness, SS Taddy Porter ( well, all Samuel Smith stuff, actually! ) etc. But when it comes to domestics, I like Coors Extra Gold for both name and flavor. But it does not receive wide distribution.

I will play beer distributor this weekend...crossing state lines, oh my!

got gold beer? got COLD beer?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:49
tolerant1 (Mr. Annan should check the records. the United Nations owes the USA a bare) ID#373284:
minimum of count em... $8,000,000,000.00 - Mr.BIGMOUTH should check the facts in between his all expenses paid vacation on the American taxpayer.
What a putz...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:41
MM () ID#350179:
IRS report on property seizures called 'stunning confession'

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:41
chas (Aragorn111 and Texasgoldpost) ID#147201:
Thanx a bunch for coin info. This is really getting down there. I'll have another perspective later, Charlie

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:36
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
July 10, 1998

Russian premier: Tension rising as economic crisis continues

MOSCOW ( AP ) -- In a blunt and gloomy report, the Russian prime minister warned Parliament on Friday that social tension was rising in Russia and financial markets have practically ceased to exist.

Since Russia's economy began spiraling downward this year, volume on the stock market has declined from about $110 million US a day to as little as $10 million US a day.

In his address to the Federation Council, the upper house of parliament, Sergei Kiriyenko also said the government's proposed new economic program to overhaul tax laws and cut spending represented a wholesale change in economic policy.

Still, the program -- demanded by Western lending agencies -- received only a lukewarm response from the legislators.

The Russian economy was just beginning to show signs of growth when it sharply retrenched this year in response to a variety of pressures, including the Asian financial crisis, a drop in world oil prices and growing signs of impatience and unrest among Russia's long-suffering work force.

Social tension is growing in society, which naturally is not helpful to stabilization, Kiriyenko said in his speech.

The financial market has practically ceased to exist, Kiriyenko said. There is, in fact, no financial market in Russia now.

The program does not contain measures to revive industrial production, raise investment activity, increase the competitiveness of national industrial output, strengthen currency controls, ensure the ruble's stability or provide social protection for the population, the resolution said, according to the Interfax news agency.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:29
MM (Grizz - No hail today - rain last night though ) ID#350179:
Greenspan supports banking reforms

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:26
Donald (The Dow calculated in pre-1933 dollars.) ID#26793:
The Dow closed today at 648.21

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:25
Grizz (Aragorn III - have you tried Killian's Red) ID#434298:
I prefer it over any of the Golden varieties.
I tend to Guinness and Murphy's when I can.
Have a good trip. Be wary of the hail though.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:25
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
July 10, 1998

Clinton, Yeltsin discuss Russian economic woes

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - The United States said Friday it was time for the International Monetary Fund to speed a new loan package to Russia to shore up its battered economy and protect the ailing ruble currency.

It's time ... for these negotiations to come to closure, White House spokesman Mike McCurry told a news briefing after President Bill Clinton and Russian President Boris Yeltsin spoke by telephone about Russia's battered economy and the proposed loan package.

Russia is seeking $10-15 billion from the IMF, World Bank and other sources to help it cope with a financial crisis. McCurry said Clinton was confident Yeltsin's government was determined to carry out promised reforms, and that the IMF package, once in place, would help to calm financial markets.

Before talking to Clinton, Yeltsin had already spoken by telephone with German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, French President Jacques Chirac and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Yeltsin also spoke by telephone with the head of the IMF, Michel Camdessus.

The government has for years battled low tax revenues and a vicious circle of nonpayment between enterprises, leading to delays of many months in paying millions of workers.

The crisis has become especially acute because of Asia's financial crisis.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:23
Donald (The numbers below are all 50 day moving averages.) ID#26793:
Spot gold $295.63; spot silver $5.43; XAU 75.58

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:23
MM (Put it on the tab.) ID#350179:
U.S. could lose U.N. vote if it doesn't pay dues, Annan says

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:21
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Gold/Silver Ratio = 54.79. The 50 day moving average is 54.55. A year ago the ratio was 74.20

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:18
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .232. The 50 day moving average is .255. A year ago the ratio was .278. My database contains 22 occasions where the XAU closed in the 67.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price, the closing today is #19. The #1 ranking was on 8/18/86 with a gold price of $376.40, an XAU of 67.55, producing a XAU/AU ratio of .179

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:10
STUDIO.R (@The Monks of Kitco........) ID#288369:
Salud!!!! ( gulp&puff ) to YA!!! All we have is but one word.....GOLD!!!!...and each other. ( GULP ) YES, Our Day is Coming!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:10
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 31.36. This is a new high. The 50 day moving average is 30.41. A year ago the ratio was 24.66

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 17:08
OLD GOLD (Japan) ID#242325:
Reify: I found a great way to play Japan if you are bullish. A fund called Warburg Pincus Japan Growth Fund ( wpjgx ) . This fund has had a significant positive return this year and last despite the Nikkei's problems and the yen's sharp drop. I din't know how they do it, but WPJGX soars when the Nikkei and/or yen rallies, but eases just a bit when these drop sharply. Down just 0.2% today with Nikkei off 2.3%.

This fund has done far bwtter than any gold fund over the past 18 months and probably has just as much upside. No load as well.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:45
IDT (Martin Armstrong) ID#228128:
Copyright © 1998 IDT/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
PMF: I pay attention to Armstrong's view and subscribe to his World Capital Markets Review. His approach is sophisticated, using a variety of timing models, artificial intelligence models, and market techical anlayses. He looks at the big picture as well. Rather than analysing each market in isolation from the others, he looks at markets on a global scale to see what for instance is likely to happen to currencies, gold, etc. He also seems to be pretty well networked. His track record is extremely good and a lot clients pay him a lot of money to manage theirs. He forecasts out a number of years into the future. Most of those forecasts will rely on interacting factors on the short-term and intermediate term. Some people here have dragged up some of his unsuccessful forecasts to prove that he is human and wrong at times. I don't think that this has been particularly fair because his forecasts are typically made with qualifiers. For example, he will state that unless gold can exceed 316 on a weekly basis it is subject to a decline into late July. If gold can drop to below 270 or lower then .... So, the world changes on a day to day basis and one needs to keep up with those changes. Three or four year old forecasts in that case will no longer apply if his model conditions change. Me, I'm happy if I can figure out what gold will do next week. You should try logging on to the Princeton Economics site and registering. They will send to you a free copy of the World Capital Markets Review and you can see for yourself if you like it.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:42
tolerant1 (If I am not mistaken the war on hemp/pot/dope/my favorite smoking-material) ID#373284:
started when the Mexicans burnt the Hearst mansion to the ground...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:40
tolerant1 (III of the house of ARAGORN, Namaste' have a good trip. And there is no ) ID#373284:
stopping the gnomes in the Cuervo Central mailroom...we have been mopping up frothy foam everywhere...nastly little beasts...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:39
fergie__A ('Nother new high in S&P500/Gold ratio) ID#14431:
Copyright © 1998 fergie__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Well, Donald, no doubt just like the Dow/Gold ratio, the S&P500/Gold ratio hit another all-time high today. The S&P/Gold ratio hit 4.007 as of today's close; 43% above 1968's peak day, and 159% above 1929's peak day. So far, the ratio is up 17.8% this year ( from 3.402 ) . The ratio has gone up at 21% per year, on average, since 1980's low of 0.130.

Of course, there is always the other side of the slope. From 1968's absolute high of 2.802, we declined a bottom of 0.130 in 1980, a gut-wrenching average decline of 22.6% per year for twelve years. It's been too long since we have felt anything like that; imagine, stocks' performance relative to gold going down over 22% per year on average, for twelve years. I wonder what the forthcoming downslope will bring.

As someone said to me on this board a little bit ago: Hang in there. We are at a historic opportunity to buy gold.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:35
gunrunner (George_A) ID#354133:
Copyright © 1998 gunrunner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

What issue of Consumer Reports is the article in? Did some research a few years back and found out the entire war on pot is based on ethnic prejudice - poor Hispanics and blacks began making it very popular in the southwest in the early 1900s. A certain bureaucrat resented that the government couldn't tax an easy-to-grow, inexpensive, alcohol substitute, so he set out to make it illegal in the U.S. He successfully did this by paying various medical institutions to conclude in their studies that it was dangerous. ( Funny side note is that the hemp industry was practically non-existent at the start of WWII - U.S. had to import rope for the beginning of its war effort! ) The lie has been going on for over 70 years, despite independent medical studies showing beneficial uses for the plant. A U.S. senator recently described pot as a spring board to more dangerous drugs. Don't know how true that is but couldn't the same be said for beer and wine? Nary a mention of alcohol or cigarettes in Klinton's speech kicking off this ill-conceived propaganda war. Alcohol and tobacco are probably more responsible for death and other health problems than pot ever will be. IMHO.

Got rope, err... gold?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:31
Squirrel (George - nobody here but us assorted nuts ;-)) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aliens eh? You may have a point.
Humans are increasingly talking about permanent space stations and sending people to Mars. Given the maturity of this species I would not blame them for slipping us a Mickey.
They may not mind robotic probes but interplanetary missions with people? No! The quarantine may draw the line at people. At the very least our manned missions leave a lot of junk behind - even more than our robotic missions. We have proven our penchant for fouling our nest.

There have been numerous future fiction stories based on the idea that we have been purposely slowed down.
Alcohol and mindless spectator sports worked for many but the brighter individuals didn't participate as much as the aliens had planned.
Then came movie theaters but they didn't work well enough. So they tried television and it worked! But as TV's content quality sunk, the brighter people started turning it off. Can't have that. So they introduced premium channels and then video rentals. As a result many people have lost their drive to do much beside eat, sleep, screw, and watch TV ( some of them work but usually in mindless jobs ) .
To further slow us down they helped us get hooked drugs - especially stuff like cocaine to reach the more middle and upper classes.
During all this the results were disappointing so they tried a couple of World Wars but that backfired. That experience only spurred us on.
After all these remedies...
the brighter of us STILL turn the TV off. Thus the internet was introduced. Yes the dunderheads have been side-tracked with slop there too. But again the brighter ones have figured out how to use the Internet to advantage. We have proven to be truly hard to throttle back.
Okay - that's it!
Time for another depression and maybe some dark ages to set these young upstarts back so their maturity has a chance to catch up to their physical growth.
If that does not work, if we humans come through Y2K with barely a break in stride then they will have to get tougher. Y2K and the other financial houses of cards are their last gentle nudge to kick us down a gear or two. If that fails then they will lob in an asteroid or two to soften us up before the four horsemen ride in to finish the job. The biblical prophecies will be brought down upon our heads.
Maybe after we get pruned back a few more times we will then have the maturity to match our physical and technological growth. THEN, just like teenagers, we may be permitted to drive around our neighborhood and maybe, if we are really, really good boys and girls, they will let us have the GOLDEN KEYS TO THE STARS.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:28
Aragorn III (Tolerant-one) ID#212323:
I will be travelling to Boulder, CO tomorrow, not to return until perhaps monday night. My guess is that tomorrow the CC gnomes will have something to remember me by.
I will also roll into Golden ( great name for a town ) and perhaps roll up my sleeves to get a little extra work done ( HQ for CAU ) . At the very least, I will pick up plenty of Extra Gold, Coors Extra Gold that is. ( great name for a excellent domestic-type beer that I cannot buy in my neck of the woods )

Don't let the gnomes work themselves into a frenzy of anticipation...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:10
Frustrated (Aragorn III) ID#336393:
Copyright © 1998 Frustrated/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
No, the money invested in CAU has no short term need - it's just that the short term gets longer and longer. I will never barrow money for investing purposes...hard enough to sleep at night as it is.

I just shake my head every day as I look at the numbers for the general equities markets...I thought that they were overvalued quite some time ago...of course they were but it makes no difference if people buy on the premise that there will be someone who will be willing to pay even more than they did...rather than buying based on fundamentals.

BTW - retail policy for apparel is such that if you buy something at the retail price and it goes on sale within 2 weeks of your purchase you are entitled to a refund of the difference. Next time it happens take your receipt back and ask for the sale price. Sure wish the same were true for these gold stocks, now wouldn't that be something quite interesting.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:10
tolerant1 (Lock & Lode, Namaste' an addendum, small, USA, hardworking...I luv these guys.) ID#373284:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 16:01
tolerant1 (Lock & Lode, Namaste') ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I was introduced to Clifton by the GOLDBUG newsletter several months ago and have been following it ever since. They are a small company, true enough, but they are growing the company properly in my estimate and each and every press release shows them to be getting stronger in an environment when most mining companies are getting weaker.

Today on three tiny trades the company moved 26% hence my scalded cat comment earlier. It is my contention that if you look over their web site you will see what I am talking about. Imagine what will happen when thousands of people discover this well run company.

I think at its current price level it is a screaming buy.

Gulp to ya...happy hunting...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:52
Texasgoldpost (Looking at the XAU chart now, ) ID#36978:
Copyright © 1998 Texasgoldpost/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
here's my read with the trusty ruler and technical application: Half the move down from 93 to 67 ( 26 points ) from early May or so is 13 points. Considering mid 60's as support that constitutes a triple bottoming action, and adding the half move of 13 points to the current 67 support level puts any rally cap at 80 and sets up a short. The buy signals will be a breakout at the 80-82 level, preferably with a gap opening and two consecutive closes above 80, then a test of that breakout to fill the gap, then to the 90-92 level. At that point and if given the chance, the short of the decade is upon us. Any violation of the 63 level with two consecutive closes below that ( ie, no bounce ) is trouble. This game plan and a couple of quid will get you a beer.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:50
PMF (@IDT (Princeton Economics Article on Russia)) ID#224363:
You know...Martin Armstrong scares the hell out of me. Not him personally but the articulate, clearly stated positions that he puts forward.

Quite frankly...if that piece on Russia has any truth to it at all, everyone should dump all of their equities except gold mining stocks and take the money and buy bullion and US Dollars.

Either bullion or $US dollars will end up ruling short term

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:41
Aragorn III (Frustrated--here's a good CAU analogy) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just like some people will only sink their DISCRETIONARY income into stocks, while maintaining their day job to pay bills and earn more discretionary income, so it is with Canyon Resources. They have been investing their proceeds into the McDonald project, yet they still have their day job...CRMinerals and CRBriggs.

You didn't have short term plans for that capital you invested did you? Fortunately I did not. I thought it was a promising buy when I bought, and now it seems to be an even better deal. Such is life. It never fails, whenever I buy a pair of slacks or denim jeans, the store has a massive sale within a week or two. Best to make sure you are happy with the purchase under any reasonably conceivable future scenario. Makes me wonder how the recent DOW or S&P investors can sleep at night. Far too much reasonably conceivable downside potential, don't you agree?

To answer you directly, I don't foresee any surprises originating from within the company. Outside forces on the other hand... ( but they can work both ways...for bad OR GOOD ) .

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:29
6pak (Thanks to those that made comments about Russian material ( they are people, as you & I) @ BBL) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
July 10, 1998

Wealthy Nordics, poor Russians separated by Arctic 'Silver Curtain'

MURMANSK, Russia ( AP ) -- For the Kola Peninsula, the Iron Curtain was brought down only to have a Silver Curtain close in its place.

In an outdoor market, Fiina Torchinkova tries to make a living by selling shoes, after working as a photographer for 12 years. I make enough to buy a piece of bread, and maybe some butter if I am lucky, she says.

For peninsula residents, immediate survival overshadows long-term dangers from radiation and pollution. Even those with jobs often don't get paid. And there is little left of a social safety net for those without work.
Life on the tundra can be extremely harsh. Some homes lack heat on minus-40 degree winter nights. There are few jobs, money for food is short, and medicine often is unavailable.

Life expectancy has plunged to 47 years for men and 48.9 years for women. That's about 30 years less than their Nordic neighbors.

Norwegian health officials, among others, now fear the spread of diseases like cholera -- considered eradicated in the Nordic countries but which hit the Kola over the winter.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:26
Texasgoldpost (Thanks for XAU info, ya'll.....) ID#36978:
Copyright © 1998 Texasgoldpost/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
By the bye, smallest gold coin is India, early 1800's, called dump coins weighing in at 0.77 grams and monetized at 1/15 mohurs. They are KM 213 catalogue in Krause coins of the world not terribly valuable and available from coin dealers occasionally at reasonable prices. .
The mex 2 peso has .0482 oz gold, the US $1.00 has .0484 oz gold. Mexico also had a one peso ( 1870-90 ) weighing in at .0476 -- There were also in the 1850's California territorial gold in denominations of 25c, 50c, and 1.00 -- pretty scarce and valuable in higher conditions, very small obviously. Everybody have a nice weekend.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:25
panda (Quotes and such... Get 15 minute delayed trade sizes.) ID#30116:
For those who want to try an interesting quote site, complete with java applet, try this URL

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:24
Lock&Lode (@tolerant1 your 13:25 ---- RE: CFTN) ID#266110:
You've peaked my interest. Why are you so convinced about its performance? Do you mind sharing your thoughts? I'd be interested hearing your input. THanks

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:21
Aragorn III (Chas...they don't get much smaller than this, or much more beautiful.) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When you bring up the page, click on the link:
Commemorative Coin Issued within the Program The Smallest Gold Coins of
the World

Some specs...
This coin is a part of an international coin program.
Face value: 10 lats ( Ls 10 in short ) .
Measurements: diameter - 13.92 mm, weight - 1.2442 g ( 1/25 oz ) .
Material: gold, fineness .999.9.
Quality: proof.
Struck in 1997 by Valcambi SA ( Switzerland ) .
Artist: Janis Strupulis.
The large coat of arms of the Republic of Latvia, with the year 1997
inscribed under it, is placed in the centre. The coat of arms is
encircled by the inscription LATVIJAS REPUBLIKA ( Republic of Latvia ) .
The picture of a sailing-ship is depicted in the centre, the inscription
GAFELSONERIS * JULIA MARIA * 1895 ( gaff-sail schooner Julia Maria 1895 )
is placed in a semicircle above the picture. The numeral 10 and
inscription LATU ( lats ) are placed beneath the picture.
Edge: Reeded.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:20
panda (Squirrel) ID#30116:
That's what makes NT X.x so much fun.... NOT!

The worst part is this upgrade crap. In order for me to reload my O/S, I have install NT 3.51 and then install the 'upgrade', NT 4.0. All because the NT 4.0 upgrade looks for the NT 3.51 system. Then there's service pack 3... Most would call this a 'patch' ( for those pesky short comings that they didn't have the time to do 'right' in the first place. )

And people wonder why I STILL install MS-DOS in addition to NT ( so that I have a dual boot system. )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:13
IDT (Princeton Economics Article on Russia) ID#228128:

If You Thought Asia
Was the problem
You better think Twice About Russia
By Martin A. Armstrong
Princeton Economic Institute July 10th, 1998

Russia is in a complete meltdown stage in economic terms. The dirty
little secret that no one seems to be willing to discuss openly has a
lot to do with the Russian Mafia. Over the next year it still appears as
though we will see further turmoil within Russian marketplace. The most
successful and biggest takeover in modern history has not been in the
stock markets, but rather the Russian Mafia taking over the government.
Much of the hundreds of billions that have been pouring into Russia have
been going into the pockets of the Mafia leaving economic conditions
stagnant at best. Last spring I went on holiday in Greece and I hired a
driver for the day in Athens. Half way through the day the driver
received a phone call and then asked me if he could take off the balance
of the day. I had paid him for the whole day so I asked him what was the
problem. He said that he had some Russian clients coming into town and
that he had to take care of them. He said they come into Greece with
bags full of cash, $600,000 - $700,000 in greenbacks. He drives them
around Athens to the jewelry stores where they buy all the jewelry they
can carry back and then give him a $5,000 dollar tip for the day. I told
him that I wasn't going to give him a $5,000 dollar tip, so he could
drop us off. Why they are buying jewelry out of Athens and bringing it
home I don't know, but that seems to be what's happening. Something is
going on in Russia where this money the west is pouring in is just not
going where its supposed to be going. The harsh reality is that everyone
knows this, except perhaps the IMF. After $100 billion dollars in loans,
the west has nothing to show for it in Russia whatsoever.

Many people have been surprised to learn that the greatest exposure to
the Asian Crisis resided in Europe not the US. Now the same situation
exists concerning Russia. According to the BIS, of the approximate $70
billion in loans to Russia, $7 billion comes from the US and $1 billion
from Japan. The balance of all loans to Russia have come from Europe of
which $30 billion alone comes from Germany. Other than Germany, the
Russian debt is spread out equally throughout Europe. Italy, Austria,
France and Belgium all have approximately $7 billion in loans

The great concerns we hear from Washington stem from a collapse in
Russia. A financial collapse in Russia may indeed spark a new wave of
currency devaluations throughout Eastern Europe where the trade links
are most intense. Western Europe's risk lies directly within its own
banking systems. Moodys has just begun to downgrade one of the big
German banks due to its loan exposures. Political sources are afraid
that if Russia goes it will create another contagion throughout Eastern
and perhaps Central Europe that may force the dollar significantly
higher again placing even greater pressure upon Asia. Accordingly, the
Russian problems are not being discussed publicly because they are far
more serious than those in Asia.

While there has been the view that the West as a whole has no choice but
to continue lending to Russia because they hold so many nuclear
missiles, the Cyprus incident was a classic example of how the Mafia has
taken over the government. Russia stated that they intended to sell
missiles to Cyprus because they needed the cash. If the West preferred,
Russia would not sell the missiles in return for $500 million in aid.
Isn't this blackmail?

The Russian Mafia is quite satisfied with Yeltsin. As long as he remains
in power, the money rolls in. It is certainly strange how Yeltsin can
sack his entire cabinet and stand alone against the political parties
and in direct opposition to the military yet survive. Many believe that
this is due to the Mafia. If the money stops rolling in, Yeltsin may
suddenly disappear.

Meanwhile, the IMF policies have been disastrous. The IMF is an antique
organization left over from the gold standard period of Bretton Woods.
The IMF is running out of cash and political support for its operations
is declining rapidly. Not only does the IMF refuse to give transparency
to member governments about its decisions and policies, but also it is
still operating under theories derived for a monetary system that no
longer exists. The point is that if the IMF really cared about the
countries it supposedly wants to bailout, it should lend money to them
in their local currency. By the IMF lending troubled nations dollars and
then demanding that they put interest rates up to 150% in order to hold
their currencies at all costs, is a policy that dates back to the gold
standard days. This policy purely benefits the IMF loan portfolio and
not the nations in trouble. This strategy creates a huge amount of
social unrest by imposing deflationary trends and economic declines for
the sake of repaying the IMF. Quite frankly, the IMF is causing more
damage than good. If the IMF wants to help these countries, then they
should issue loans in the local currency of that nation in an attempt to
stimulate and reorganize their economies. By lending dollars, the IMF
demands high interest and if the economy becomes worse, then the nations
involved will never be able to repay their loans after currency
devaluation. Russia is a classic example where a new loan is given just
so they can pay the interest on a previous loan. If a private citizen
operated their finances that way, they would go to jail for fraud.
The great concern that we should now pay attention to is the possibility
of a third Russian Revolution. According to our sources believed to be
reliable, a new movement is currently forming in Russia under the
leadership of General Lev Rokhlin who has joined forces with retired
army and KGB officers. This new faction opposes military reform and is
now threatening the government with an insurgence of dissatisfied
officers. Our sources now warn that Rokhlin is calling an All-Army
Officers' Meeting to discuss whether Mr. Yeltsin is suited to run the
nation. Our sources are warning that the Russian military armored
divisions may enter Moscow in protest of military reform movements and
lack of pay.

The Russian Mafia has been making off with all the cash pouring in from
the West. The Russian military has been suffering from a lack of pay and
appreciation. These two opposing forces may ultimately clash and bring
down the Russia government. We suspect that there is a great concern
that Russia may flip back to a communist state thus causing widespread
defaults on their debt. Another possibility is that Russia moves closer
to a fascist state where it tries to keep the cash coming from West
while in fact controlling industry from the Kremlin. In any event, this
development in Russia is capable of exploding at any time over the next
few weeks.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:07
Squirrel (George - I really didn't think that you thought I was Nuts.) ID#287186:
Not really Nuts.
Just sorta nuts! ;- ) ) )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 15:05
Mountain Goat (@Grizz & Squirrel Re: Fleeing to the hills) ID#349183:
Copyright © 1998 Mountain Goat/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I do not want the job - Grizz
...somewhere you can easily escape to by foot - Squirrel

Grizz - It's not going to be a job that anyone wants, but those of us who prepare ARE going to have to make those decisions for those who didn't.

Squirrel - I feel pretty lucky ( like you ) that I live in the west near the mountains. Millions of acres of public land to find your hidey-hole. If ( when ) things get nasty, I want to be as far out of the reach of the masses as I can.

Just like fire insurance for my home, I hope it never happens, but I'm planning for the time that it does.

Got ammo? Got non-perishable foods? Got physical? Got a refuge?
Then you got insurance against the worst Y2K/Klinton/Dead Dow/etc. can throw at you.


MG ( Go Gold & Silver )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:57
chas (Crystal Ball re thanx) ID#147201:
You got to aim that Viagra! good luck. Appreciate the Mex 2 peso, Charlie

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:56
MM (bien déçu: croix d'or) ID#350179:
Newbie link

Time for IMF to end talks with Russia, White House says

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:51
Frustrated (Aragorn III...CAU) ID#298259:
I just hope we are being told the whole story and that there aren't further surprises in store for us. I already own a boat load of CAU and it is sinking fast. Makes no sense to sell here if the Briggs Mine can restore profitability.

I think people are beginning to question CAU's ability to meet current cash flow needs. With current assets at $13.6 mil and current liabilities at $10.4 mil - as of March 31 - things are getting tight as evidenced by their default on recent commitments. $320 gold better not be too far off or I may need lots of life preservers.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:51
Earl () ID#227238:
Texasgoldpost: XAU support is around 63. That was set in Jan 98. Near term, it needs to stay above 67 - 67.50. It has held at the 67 level for the past 5 weeks.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:51
goldfevr (Texasgoldpost & XAU) ID#434108:
Look on Yahoo/search-select XAU^XAU&d=t

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:50
Crystal Ball (@ Chas) ID#340392:
smallest I've seen is Mexican 2 peso. $18 ( cheep ) each

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:49
Gold Dancer (Paul Stephens of Contrarian Fund) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
His latest update also predicted the beginning of LOTS of
gold mergers and take overs.
I'll bet some of them won't be friendly. I think the South Aftrican
golds are the first to go. I think Monk of ABX can't wait to sell his
gold hedges and buy the likes of DROOY or RANGY which he helped to
destroy thru knocking the price of gold dowm. I just wonder whether
he could get enough of the stock. Does anyone else see this coming.
Yes, I did read the article about it on Gold-Eagele Web Site. It also
happens to make a lot of sense to everyone but the South Africans.
What do others think about this?

Thanks, GD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:49
Crystal Ball (@ Tol 1: I'll buy SSRIF when it hits 1/8; should be a good buy then) ID#340392:
Got a Viagra stuck in my throat this morning. Had a stiff neck for several hours

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:47
chas (Aragorn 111 re gold coins) ID#147201:
In your ramblings thru the coin market etc, what' s the smallest gold coin you have ever found ? Many thanx, Charlie

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:43
George__A (Squirril--Alien induction) ID#433172:
Copyright © 1998 George__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
No, Squirril, I don't think your nuts, IMO you are taking prudent precautions, so is Sharefin. I was just saying be careful in making physical moves too early. Sharefin should know you don't turn on a light till you get there. Events rarely unfold the way we think.

Aliens are the authors of the y2k? I can argue that.
1. Technology would be their long suit, make it trumph.
2. Those who set this up were ignorant of the effect uh-huh.
3. Even when the impending results are known--where is the fix? where is the concern? Ambush, a clear ambush. FEELS like an ambush.
4. Dangerous situations never get fixed. Chernoble- rainforest- atomic waste- Russian missles- on and on and on.
5. With all the wealth and power we are going deeper into the hole, it's not doing any good, hell, look at the world. You can't tell me we can't make it better, we just can't because of alien interference.
6. Come 2000, comes the dawn, maybe.

I could go on for a half hour, so could you, is it plausible? Aliens, who don't like us, are funning with us. Or are we just too dumb for words.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:40
Winston__A (Y2k Crisis hits the mainstream) ID#244418:
I am watching a TV special on Y2k. It's on the Pat Robertson 700 Club show. Very good presentation. You should be able to catch it on the Family Channel on cable today.It will repeat at later times. One anecdote: a woman was checking her household
appliances to see if they would work if the date was advanced to 2000. Her camcorder instantly ejected the cartridge and froze in that position, unusable.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:36
Texasgoldpost (Does anybody know ....) ID#37292:
a URL where I can call up XAU chart, or do you know where the support is at this time? Thanks,

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:36
Aragorn III (Frustrated...thanks for that link to the Yahoo discussion site for Canyon.) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Looks like the baby is being tossed out with the bath water. Investors are treating this episode like speculators would with an exploration company whose only *find* turns out to be a bust.
The gold IS at McDonald and Seven-up Pete.
Canyon DOES have a comanding presence on the Panamint Range with an active mine.
Canyon has OTHER sources of income in the industrial minerals realm.

McDonald can wait for a while. Lets watch earnings accumulate from Briggs and the diatomite and pumice operations, watch gold price recover as the euro and Y2K aproaches, and lets see a fair market value for the stock reassert itself. Call me silly but I would be buying here, but you see, I just ordered this handful of French Francs. Tapped out til payday, in effect. Damn shame.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:30
Frustrated (Today's Blue Light Specials...) ID#298259:
CAU at 3/8, 763,000 shares traded
BGO at 1 7/16, 692,700 shares traded
CCH at 5/16, 502,000 shares traded

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:07
FOX-MAN__A (And we're in the final stretch...Gold is trying to move up...Silver...yessiree, it's) ID#288186:
moving back up, too. Lets have a nice finish into the weekend shall
we? Go Gold! Go Silver!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 14:02
Frustrated (CAU at a bid of 1/4...?) ID#298259:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:50
J (Bank Runs and gold) ID#174239:
Copyright © 1998 J/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Many Americans just have enough money in the bank to cover this months bills , if that.

How many ounces of gold could such a person afford to stash away? 1/10? 1/4? I think far more people would rather deal with silver. A full ounce for less than $10. Of course canned food and ammunition should sell even better.

Among the wealthy, I think platinum and diamonds would be the way to go for two key reasons:
1. Most value stored in the least volume.
2. Less influenced by Central banks selling gold to get more cash. Something that may be very tempting to increase the cash available to the banks.

Cash substitute summary:
Silver for commoners, platinum for the rich, and gold for the goldbugs.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:48
Ogie (Stockmarket blow off) ID#242300:
Addition to 07-10-98 post at 12:58. It took the market 100+- years to reach 3000. The market has tripled ( 9000 ) , from 1993 to 1998. There has never been an blow off like this in recorded history. Are you ready?.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:46
Squirrel (George - one year is not enough - make it five! It is doable.) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You think I am NUTS!?
How many friends and relatives do you have
who will be on your doorstep pleading for mercy?
If you can not just say no and enforce it
then your little family will swell to two dozen.
You will then find you have only 2 months of rations.
If you are in a dry climate you a blessed for storage.
Otherwise pack stuff in CO2 or nitrogen.
Fetch the three faq files ( and most of the rest too ) from
There is a wealth of food storage info there and
other great stuff as Sharefin found in the science.txt

Convert your gold to small denominations 1/10 or 1/4 oz.
And bury it somewhere you can easily escape to by foot
if you are driven from your home and community.
Split it between 2 or 3 escape routes.
If one cache is found - the others may not be.
Include a small cheap revolver and ammo.
And a some dense, high calorie, long shelf-life food.
And a pack to carry it if you are on the run.
This is commonly referred to as a bugout bag.
See the bobag.html on the above site for other items.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:45
Earl () ID#227238:
Kuston: My comment on PL yesterday was based on the intraday action - at the time - . It actually closed in a less negative position. Today just confirms yesterday's action. Basis PL8V, it looks like somewhere around $365 should contain the downmove. ...... Candlestick patterns are tops for picking tops. .... dreadful play on words ... The most consistent tool I have seen for early warnings. They are also good for bottoms but much better at picking tops. IMO. ...... If only I had believed in them earlier. sigh.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:45
Gold Dancer (SORRY I GOOFED) ID#377196:
Tried to send Veneroso. Got it copied and pasted and tried to send
but would not send header at bottom because of all the characters.
SO, I highlighted this at the bottom and tried to delete it. But the
whole thing went to cyber space burial. S***.

I tried. GD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:34
tolerant1 (where is Mike Sheller...the last time I saw him he was sailing over head riding) ID#373284:
a cannon ball with Baron Von Munchhausen sippin wine...some guys, sheesh

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:29
Grizz (Aurator - I agree with Tantalus) ID#431366:
Copyright © 1998 Grizz/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We are disintegrating into factions.
Being an American is understood by a precious few.
Most are meddling in each others affairs. They do it as individuals and groups and they get governments at all levels to be their enforcers.

I sincerely believe this country is not be a nation. Perhaps such an ideal is nearly impossible for with over a hundred million people.

We have also had it too easy.
Nations coalesce from strife and hard times.
Maybe Y2K will do that for us.
But we will have many separate nations.
Hopefully we can live in peace with each other on this continent.
But I doubt it.
Yes we will have a civil war.
More like a balkanization.
And it will be nasty, very nasty.

As they come looking for me and mine.
I may find myself deciding who lives and who dies.
I do not want the job!
If I hang out some bait I can help weed out some of the worst.
I do not want the job! But it may come to my door anyway!
I do not want the job!
I do not want the job!
I do not want the job!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:28
kuston (@ Crystal Ball ) ID#273227:
Yes, I read that post but didn't look at the prices until this morning. When I read it, I wondered what his expectations were? The prices didn't seem expensive on monday. Sometimes even I forgot how fast information follows in this etherworld. Personally, I'm positioned fine - just getting greedy. I alway think of Soros before I add to a trade, 'if your trade is right, it can't be big enough'

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:28
George__A (Sharefin--War on Drugs?) ID#433172:
Copyright © 1998 George__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sharefin, I've been reading your posts on the y2k problem and your anticipated response to it. I don't know doodely-dee about the computer problem, but i've taken everything you said into consieration, and I belive what you said too.

After sleeping on it I think we are going to have about 1 year of disruption, all kinds as a result of diminished supply. Big time inflation, so I'm buying 1 year plus supplies of the things we consume, now. Worse case results-tripping over canola oil etc for 1 year.

I've spent a lot of time out of town with my family ( way out ) , my two boys loved it, my wife and daughter didnot. It's OK for awhile but some people need social interaction, they just can't take isolation. BEWARE, my wife and daughter left me, eventually returned, and I returned to town. I won't leave town again unless I absolutely must.

War on Drugs- Here we go again, 2 B now to fund a propoganda campain against drug use by our children. If they would just tell the truth I would support it, but they won't. More reefer madness, just when several states are trying to legalize pot for medical reasons. Now it's good for stroke victims and altzhiemers along with glucoma and neausea. Maybe not the smoke but the stuff thats in there. I can hardly stand the thought of 2 years of your brain on drugs over easy. Anyone intterested in the truth? Read Licit and illicit drugs by comnsumer reports, a scholorly treatment of the topic, not hype.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:25
Gold Dancer (Tolerant1) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Boy, would it ever change things if Japan goes the way of Europe.
Will it? Japan is dealing with its debt problem along with the rest
of Asia. SO far the US is not. Veneroso says that Asia has bottomed
and will recover by end of the year. I also recall that Japan said
a few days ago that they would make the Yen an international currreny
just like the EURO and BEFORE the EURO.
Will the US allow this. I think they will for the following reason.
It will let the politions off the hook. They can say that because of
situations out of their control the US will have to devalue or whatever.
The US is not dealing with its debt problem and we are the largest
debtor in the world and Japan has the largest currency reserves in the
world. IN fact Asia has huge curreny reserves. So I see three
currency blocks in the world coming soon: EURO-YEN-DOLLAR. With the
dollar being the last and as a result of simular conditions here as
now happening in Japan and Asia.

I will try and post Veneroso's comments if I figure out how to do
it. I am fairly new to computers.

Thanks, GD and GOT GOLD?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:25
tolerant1 (psssst......psssst.......psssst........shhhhhhhhshhhhh....crystal ball) ID#373284:
BUY SOME CLIFTON MINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! will take off like a scalded veeeery........ veeeeeery......quiet........

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:21
kuston (paper principles, Y2K, & gold) ID#273227:
Copyright © 1998 kuston/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yesterday the managing partner and one of the principles of the trading house I work at asked me about this Y2K thing they heard about? Yes, it seemed funny to me also. Their concerns seemed to be focused towards the satelites and the money supply. I explained the satelites part to them. When we started talking about the money supply ( they know something about this part ) they seemed to get concerned. They understood that this market runs on easy money and faith. When the public stashes alittle money away, just incase, things will change. I asked them if they had considered the impacts this will have on each market their answer was - gold UP. I don't think either of these guys owns 1 gram of gold right now ( maybe their wedding rings ) . Times are a changing...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:21
Crystal Ball (@ Kuston) ID#340392:
Did you catch Paul Sarnoff's remark that COMEX silver call options are overpriced? He recommends Hecla ( HL ) $5 calls for approx 75 cents premium per share ( $75/100sh ) . I think he's overly optimistic, but he says HL could go to 8 or 9 by Dec. I still think buying BGO, DROOY, RANGY, and/or SSRIF as non-expiring PM options with no time premium expense is the best deal

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:17
Gollum (goblin?) ID#35571:
No goblin today in NY so far, actually it looks like gold and silver being held in very narrow range all day. Interesting.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:16
tolerant1 (Crystal Ball, Namaste' A giant Island that is Long gulp to ya...) ID#373284:
The Cuervo Central catacombs are chock full my friend...we could go under ground and not surface until 2005...heh...heh...heh...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:14
Crystal Ball (@ EB and Tolerant 1) ID#340392:
Grains are getting whacked. Cherokee is probably turning over in his

bed, ( :- ) ) blowing smoke signals and sniffin out the Flux and chaos

Plats down $5. Azukar is flat around 8.5 centavos. XAU is down to 67. DROOY and SSRIF meandering around $2. BGO $1.50 ... What does it all mean? A good cigar is a smoke. Remember the golden rule.

On the island that is long, the only pertinent question is, Got gold? ( potable water, razor blades, tp, soap, &c also helpful ) Namaste'

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:13
tolerant1 (Midas_A, Namaste' What you say is addition there is no question that) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
there are at the very least 4 ( maybe more ) very distinct least in my mind. The first is the bottom feeding dirtbags that operate above the law selling arms, etc...anything for a buck...then there is the government and the people that exist to serve the government who live on the backs of...the third America which are the hard working, caring people that are Americans and last but not least...the forth... the forgotten Americans, the homeless, invisible people that suffer here while we send billions abroad amidst all the empty banter of the dirtbags in government.

Only when the third group awakens and takes back America in total will this country turn around, not just in an economic nor moral sense, but in a healthy organized effort sense. Throwing the dog defilers like the IMF into the ocean to die like the rats they are...taking back control of OUR money...telling the Chinese to set their people FREE instead of a leader ( hint...WJC ) who whipped out the knee pads and far out did whatever little Monica may or may not have done in the oral office, on every Chinese official in front of the WHOLE WIDE WORLD.

I could ramble on but I know you catch my drift...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:10
kuston (D.A. bullish case - ok. bearish case?) ID#273227:
Copyright © 1998 kuston/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
D.A. - I like your bullish case for this 'junk'. What would be your bearish case for J. Aron's actions? Monday night I checked out the silver option prices, EB and I discussed adding to our positions, for December timeframe. I didn't write any of them down, but they seemed alot cheaper then they are today. Silver is about the same price, did the premiums go up this week? This would support your bullish case?

Earl, your Platinum call yesterday looks really good. I'll be buying this dip, would appreciate your call as to when ( I'll be looking at the same charts, but it's always nice to get a second opinion ) .

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:07
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

goldfevr. Von Mises. Bingo.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:07
Squirrel (Panda, Aurator and I feel for you, we really do.) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Your experience in your 08:49 should not be inflicted on anybody!
Good gosh man. Bill Gates should walk the plank for that!
I've got Netscape Communicator 4.0.5 on a PowerMac and Mac OS 8.1
I've two ISPs and switch between them easily.
I copy/paste different DNS numbers from my notepad into my TCP/IP control panel. Then change name, password, and phone number in the PPP control panel and connect up.
When I am done I close both control panel windows without saving changes.
Then I connect up to the first ISP.
There may be easier ways that I have yet to discover.
But it works - and that is what I care about.

I don't have time to play PC troubleshooter and mechanic.
Bill Gates and crowd have not learned that many feel the same way.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:06
Allen(USA) (Sharefin) ID#246224:
email me at . THX.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:05
Allen(USA) (Asian resurrection?) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
First, there needs to be an appreciation for the diversity in ethnic make up and history of conflict in that region. Next, look at the religous and political differences. Their competing interests will always undermine their common interests.

The Asian economies are export driven. They are very international. Hence they must also compete with all the non-asian export economies such as Central and South America, Eastern Europe, etc. They have over-built production capacity and real estate. Corporations have assumed massive debts in order to build this capacity and invest in these properties. The requirements of the debts are typically to be paid in US$ rather than the national currency. These debts in combination with the competitive overcapacity of industry and real estate are crushing the life out of these corporations ( see Korea, China, Indonesia, and soon Japan ) .

Individuals are not given to western style consumerism ( in their internal economies ) . Vast percentages of their populations are sunk in poverty or marginal livelihoods. The vast majority think savings, not spending and certainly not debt.

So my question is: Where will this sudden regional change in fortunes come from? Will it be an export led revival just when the good old USA is sinking into a recession?

The financial commitments of the past can not be simply erased like a chaulk board. The currency issues can not be disolved as if they were a spoon of sugar in a cup of tea. The structural and cultural issues can not be whited over with a brush.

I am a bit wary of people on this side of the world rationalizing some story book scenario which is long on wishful thinking and short on practicable solution. If the answer was easy, culturally, monetarily, financially, economicly or politically, then the Japanese must be really STUPID people since they have not been able to fight their way out of this wet paper bag for almost 10 years.

My concern is that we in the west are advising what will in the end be the execution of these people's economies. The problem is one of debt creation and usage. Consider the economy which is based on productive achievement, prudent saving and reinvestment ( and a balanced import/export ) . An economy where debt was only a small fraction of the entire financial landscape. Where people lived within their means because that was the only alternative. ( ditto for governments! ) Imagine such a world. Compare that image to today's world. In which would you like to reside?

Then there is Y2K, the spoiler, the party crasher. While the world is feeling its pain or gain the seconds are ticking quietly by. Soon enough the world will awaken, first in the US, then elsewhere. And panic will begin to build until no one will believe in debt or paper ... a great burning fire that will prepare the stage for the invisible earthquake ... and then famine, plague and death will run their courses.

My hope for you is that you will see 'evil coming from afar' and will 'hide' yourself. Then you will be part of the company of the wise and the survivors. Indonesia is a preview of what awaits the entire world in a few short months .. only it will be worse.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 13:03
Crystal Ball (@ Tolerant 1) ID#340392:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:58
Ogie (Stock market) ID#242300:
Stock market blow off of 2200 points, in three months, after tripling in five years, down turn in March of 1998 ( predicted wave top ) , leads to US intervention to jump start, currencies begin to topple, This morning 07-10-98 NYSE limits computer sell programs. The guys who know are worried.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:56
goldfevr (The Boom & The Blame) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr All rights reserved
The following paragraph is taken from Ludwig von Mises' 'epic' book,
HUMAN ACTION, chap. 20 - Interest, Credit Expansion,
and the Trade Cycle, Section 9 - The Market Economy as Affected by
the Recurrence of the Trade Cycle :

The boom produces impoverishment. But still more disastrous are its moral ravages. It makes people despondent and dispirited. The more optimistic they were under the illusory prosperity of the boom, the greater is their despair and their feeling of frustration. The individual is always ready to ascribe his good luck to his own efficiency and to take it is a well-deserved reward for his talent, application, and probity.

But reverses of fortune he always charges to other people, and most of all to the absurdity of social and political institutions. He does not blame the authorities for having fostered the boom. He reviles them for the inevitable collapse. In the opinion of the public, more inflation and more credit expansion are the only remedy against the evils which inflation and credit expansion have brought about.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:55
Midas__A (@tolerant1, I hope that you are right and it comes to pass..) ID#340459:
Would the USA ever allow it though, Japanese servitude to US has been consistent since WWII

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:54
(Stock market) ID#20975:
Stock market blow off of 2200 points, in three months, after tripling in five years, down turn in March of 1998 ( predicted wave top ) , leads to Us intervention to jump start, currencies begin to topple, This morning 07-09-98 NYSE limits computer program sells, The guys who know are worried.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:51
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Gold Dancer -- Can't happen 'till all that debt disappears one way or another! They've barely scratched the surface!!!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:51
Aragorn III (Has anyone else noticed...) ID#212323:
that Bart is slowly turning back his clock so as to delay Y2K problems? ;- )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:45
MM (Russia and Y2K) ID#350179:
The State Telecommunications Committee, which has been assigned to coordinate the checking of government and state enterprise computer systems at federal and regional levels, has admitted that the 2000 problem cannot be resolved entirely in the remaining time.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:40
tolerant1 (oris, Bingo, Namaste') ID#373284:
A gulp of tequila to ya from the Island that is Long...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:38
MM (News sort of) ID#350179:
Japanese Telco Shakes Off $2 Billion Loss
Glitch fall-out ( Y2k will just be a glitch too, I bet... ) Extreme sarcasm there.
World Bank approves Thai loans, plans more

6pak follow-ups:
General's wife charged with murder
Yeltsin seeks world backing in Russia crisis

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:38
crazytimes (@ Gold Dancer) ID#342376:
Can you repost that article by Veneroso? Thanks...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:36
Squirrel (RJ - I agree with the pure Maple Leafs) ID#287186:
They are distinctive and come from a respected nation.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:33
Bingo (tolerant 1) ID#263254:
By the way, I've been meaning to tell you....I like what I'm hearing coming from you lately! Feisty!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:27
Gold Dancer (Spudmaster) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Wonderful post on what our money really is. It reminded me of about
12 years ago when I went and bought a car. Since I never borrow money
I paid by check. The sales person went away and then came back with my
check and said he could not fine me in his credit rating system. I said
I wasn't in the the national system because I never borrow money. I
always earn the money first

The interesting part of the story is what he said next. This man
was from Europe and said that most people don't understand that when
you borrow money you become a slave. Look at all you Americans, you
talk about yourselves as being the home of the free, but you are all
slaves and someday you will all find out what that means. And the rich
will all laugh their way to the bank.

I had never heard any salesperson talk like that before or since,
certainly no American salesperson. I really think we are VERY naive
in this country when it comes to economics.


Thanks, GD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:22
oris (Jed & Junior) ID#238422:
Russian polititians smoke American cigarettes.
Junior will blame American tobacco
companies like everybody else...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:19
oris (tolerant1 & Junior) ID#238422:
My friend, there were very many special teams already
formed and sent to Russia. Junior would confirm availability
of your package on the shelfs of the stores. In regard
to giving it for free - if you do that, they will just
ask for more of it saying that your takeover plans require
more time, say....tomorrow in the near future...I'm confident
you are made out of stainless steel, but 6pack may very
easy get nervous and start being 12pack, which looks a little
bit too much even for me ( smile ) .

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:16
tolerant1 (Bingo, Namaste' sure, i'll stick my foot in my mouth, I am good at it. Were the) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Japanese to link the Yen to gold the entire ball game would change over night...I believe the axis upon which Mr. Kutyn's entire thesis revolves is based on the fact that gold must be in the equation...irrespective of ones vent of thought regarding a direct 1 to 1 relationship or a fractional is the key to stability...

Were the Japanese to do make the move to gold it would usurp the EURO ( which I believe will be still born due to Y2K, no matter how much money the house of Rothschild throws at their new computer system ) and change the financial face of the globe.

A gulp to ya...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:09
Bingo (Gold Dancer) ID#263254:
I would like to see someone factor in John Kutyn's commentary with

further exploration of Veneroso's suggestions to come up with something

a bit more realistic about Japan's future.

Any takers?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:07
tolerant1 (I think sharefin mentioned this a week or so ago...for those interested, its tonight) ID#373284:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:05
Aragorn III (Runs on banks...I have made my own personal run and am back with my two cents...) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have read with interest the many responses to Auric's good question, What does widespread bank runs portend for the price of gold?

The many answers/guesses are reasonable, yet I feel an important point has been missed, or perhaps Auric's question is misinterpreted.

Some of you immediately got this, some did not. A run on a bank is more about loosing faith in the banking institution/system than it is about loosing faith in the currency. The bank-run is all about GETTING your hands on the currency now, because you don't have confidence that you can get it later. So, let's explore this possible reality...

What would cause this loss of confidence in your bank's ability to delivery your money unto you, and hence the run on the bank? Y2K issues, of course! The preparation/precaution of a few is enough to exhaust the physical cash in the system. The vast majority of the nation's M2 is simply represented as a number on a ledger or as a digital element in a computer system. There is not nearly enough paper and coin to represent all of this virtual money. Simply put, your checking and savings accounts are numbers on a computer screen, they are not a drawer of cash reserved with you name on it.

Precautions for Y2K will cause enough demand for the 'safety' of physical cash that a shortage will develop. This will happen well in advance of January 1, 2000. All of the computer systems will still be running, and society will still have a glitch-free infrastructure, but the cash will be in short supply. What would you do if the bank assured you that your accounts were indeed in good standing, but they didn't have the cash to give you? People not currently concerned with Y2K issues will suddenly be keenly aware of the potential problem facing the infrastructure. For the present time, your credit card and checking accounts still work ( because they use digital accounting of cash ) , but this is no longer a sure thing post-millennium. So what would you do?

Let's say you have account balances that total $100,000. You have $50 in your wallet, and the bank can't give you any more. BUT, you can still write checks...Hmmmmmmmmm, what to do, what to do?

You don't want that money in account during the roll-over, because God knows how long it might take to get things sorted out. So you buy stuff. And not just any ol' stuff. You write checks to buy things that you know you will need, clothes, car, etc. Now you've got $50,000 in your account. You don't want to piss the money away on beanie babies. You want something that will represent your wealth on the back-side of year 2000 when things get back to normal. What asset would you buy with a check that is very liquid and *almost* as good as cash? Remember, with a housefull of food and clothes, storage starts to become an issue. Wouldn't you write one big fat check to a bullion dealer for some gold? Wouldn't everyone else be doing the same thing, some sooner, some later? Who's going to get the best price? ( That's is cheap NOW ) .
So there you are, lots of food, clothes, car, gold, and $50 bucks paper in your wallet. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable with more than just $50 bucks in the short term? You want more paper for short term trading needs ( the gold will preserve your long-term wealth ) . So you and everyone like you will go to the bank or ATM to start loading up on cash. Who cares if you lose 3% interest rates for a year. Some will do this sooner than others because they know how small the supply of paper money is.

To monitor this yourself, observe the quality of the cash you encounter in your daily transactions. The banks send worn bills to the Fed for replacement with new ones. Watch as the bills in circulation get dirter and grubbier in appearance as they are NOT taken out of circulation. New bills being printed are being used to give *backing* to the digital accounts rather than to replace the old bills.

got money and gold now?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 12:04
tolerant1 (an excellent article on the First Pissant and a GUTLESS CONGRESS...) ID#373284:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:55
tolerant1 (Gold Dancer...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I can't put my finger on it but) ID#373284:
I have a gut feeling that you could very well be right regarding the market in Japan...there is just too much hot air holding up the coverage in the media, especially with all the Japan bashing...our system here is not pristine and well managed...unless one included the well managed methodology with which the people are bilked of their money...

In the not too distant future I see a great many disillusioned nouveaux riches...lots of good SUVs for sale soon...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:51
Paul Gold__A (DROOY restructures hedge) ID#21484:
Durban Roodepoort Deep managed to restructure its hedging program following the sharp increase in the Rand denominated price of gold - see for detail. You will also find closing prices for DROOY on three exchanges expressed in US$.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:46
Gold Dancer (Veneroso-SAYS BUY ASIA) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just received an e-mail from Veneroso and in essence he says that
Asia is abandoning the disasterous policies of the US and the IMF and
going back to what they do best: taking care of themselves. They are
going to set up their own Asian version of the IMF for Asian Countries.
All I can say is finally. The IMF are just a bunch of blood suckers
and the poor average person in Asia gets screwed.
More and more I see the world as the rich against everyone else. It's
time for the people to fight back. Veneroso sees China getting back to
an 8% growth rate by the end of the year.

All this should mean rising prices for materials,grains, and GOLD.

Veneroso thinks short term capital will move back quickly into Asian
markets before the door is shut. Remember my prediction of 27,000
on the Nikkei by the end of the year? It's coming. And a BIG GOLD
move is coming as well. Hold onto your hats things are going to become
exciting as the year progresses.

Thanks, GD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:45
chas (tolerant1) ID#147201:
You got him spotted. An alligator is too good for him.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:41
tolerant1 (chas...I think when he goes he is going to fall HARD...everybody thinks he is oh) ID#373284:
so smooth...sort like when you go noodling down south...slippery...but when you get a good hold on em you can hear croak em under water eh...uh huh...cause they know the end is here...uh huh...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:30
curmudgeon (Please accept) ID#340256:
my apologies for the double. New kid on the block.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:25
chas (T 1 re Keyes) ID#147201:
You damn right. The SOB, candy balls is on a run. Who's going to trip him?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:21
chas (Frustrated re CAU) ID#147201:
I haven't heard from my request on Richard. Since I am unfamiliar with CAU, I can't make any pertinent comments. When I hear from Richard, I'll lay out what it is. Charlie

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:11
Gollum (@JTF) ID#35571:
Very well put. The effect of the run on a bank and loss of faith in the currency depends upon whether the currency is the premiere currency or not. If not, money flies to some more highly regarded currency. If it is already the top dog, wealth flies from currency to real assets such as gold, diamonds, art objects, real estate ( except if threat of war in which case more portable assets are preferred ) .

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:09
Jed (@6pak) ID#244242:
What the h*** are those Russian politicoes smokin'?
I would say to blazes with the debt and pay the people. It looks like they are going to find out the hard way that lynch mobs are composed primarily of ordinary folks-NOT international bankers and financiers. Wow! Those guys are living in a utopian free-market dream world over there... Those debts will never get repaid if there is another civil war or the bureaucrats are all hanging from lampposts.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:04
Spud Master (@JTF) ID#28586:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You wrote:
Most Americans don't have a clue regarding that fact that the US dollar has feet of clay. But -- on the other hand, as long as people believe in the dollar, it will remain strong. The equity markets are the same way -- everything is built on faith.

I would only amend your words as follows:

[everything] is built on a CON where it pertains to the US Dollar.

It took me FOREVER to understand why some would would value debt, and buy debt.

I now understand that the US Dollar is actually a certificate of human slavery, or indebtedness if you prefer.

The Central Banks of the world promulgate paper money that is backed by human slavery: that is the backing of the US dollar - look around you - only a few of us are free in the sense that we are not debt-slaves. Now you can understand the near panic of the bankers to push credit cards, 125% home equity loans, and indebtedness at every chance:

A banker without debtors is like a Southern slave master with no slaves.

How clever the Central Banks lords must feel, smiling as they watch the masses of the planet each morning bend their necks to the paper yoke of the US Dollar.

Spud, 1776 Now!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:03
panda (Then there's Getchell Gold....) ID#30116:
Getchell Gold ( GGO:AMEX ) .

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:03
JTF (Worldwide deflation causing US market inflation) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Steve in To, Steve, Perth: I agree -- so far the US has been only mildly affected by the commodity price drops, and trade shifts have not materially affected things -- yet. And, interest rates are dropping. The combination of falling commodity prices and falling interest rates is stimulating the equity markets -- in addition to 'flight to safety' and the Baby boomers with money to spend. This kind of stimulation is not healthy in the long run.

Interesting times we live in --- complex forces are driving the world's economy right now -- and it is very hard to see what will happen next. We certainly cannot assume that gold is going to skyrocket in US dollars any time soon. We also cannot assume that the US economy will remain strong with no trading partners. We are all in this together -- whatever happens.

I've given up on deciding whether inflation or deflation is dominant in the US. I am just keeping most of my powder dry.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:02
curmudgeon (Ever see a boa constructor eat a pig with a gold coin in its ear and then get constipated?) ID#340256:
Copyright © 1998 curmudgeon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The pig, very slooooowly, moves through the snake as it is being digested. I feel like the pig. I know I am being digested and I cannot do anything about it. Right now, nothing makes sense because the boa is constipated. Banks and governments cannot do anything because if they do, they will kill the boa and me along with it. The US cannot take action because they may cut off the head and AG and RR will go down in history disgraced. Japan cannot do anything because they won't ( Remember Pearl Harbor ) . China isn't doing anything because they are not ready. Europe can't do anything or they will crash their house. Russia is Russia. Consequently, nothing happens. Nothing will happen until action is forced upon them and then it will be to late. Patience is a virtue, my friends.

The boa needs a laxative. Where, my learned friends, will it come from?

The least I can do for you folks, because you have been kind to me, is to sacrifice my body and spirit to the boa. Always remember this: When the Boa shi*s, it WILL Shi* GOLD.

One crow to eat that gold will be $350.5432658 or better on November 16, 1998 at 22:00 hours. Besides that I am long Dec gold calls ( my timing has not been good on the gold problem for a looooong time ) . I will accept the golden turkey award at that time.

Cheers, I am thinking of going long on Tulips here soon. Thank you all for insight, incite, talking dogs, wit, wisdom and poetry.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:02
panda (Unhedged producer (Agnico Eagle), Look only if you can 'bear' it.) ID#30116:
Here is a longer term chart of the unhedged producer, Agnico Eagle Mines LTD ( AEM:NYSE )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:02
John Disney__A (Advanced Get) ID#24135:
to all
Planning to buy Advanced Get
analysis package .. Does anyone
have experience with it

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 11:02
(Ever see a boa constructor eat a pig with a gold coin in its ear and then get constipated?) ID#205184:
Copyright © 1998 /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The pig, very slooooowly, moves through the snake as it is being digested. I feel like the pig. I know I am being digested and I cannot do anything about it. Right now, nothing makes sense because the boa is constipated. Banks and governments cannot do anything because if they do, they will kill the boa and me along with it. The US cannot take action because they may cut off the head and AG and RR will go down in history disgraced. Japan cannot do anything because they won't ( Remember Pearl Harbor ) . China isn't doing anything because they are not ready. Europe can't do anything or they will crash their house. Russia is Russia. Consequently, nothing happens. Nothing will happen until action is forced upon them and then it will be to late. Patience is a virtue, my friends.

The boa needs a laxative. Where, my learned friends, will it come from?

The least I can do for you folks, because you have been kind to me, is to sacrifice my body and spirit to the boa. Always remember this: When the Boa shi*s, it WILL Shi* GOLD.

One crow to eat that gold will be $350.5432658 or better on November 16, 1998 at 22:00 hours. Besides that I am long Dec gold calls ( my timing has not been good on the gold problem for a looooong time ) . I will accept the golden turkey award at that time.

Cheers, I am thinking of going long on Tulips here soon. Thank you all for insight, incite, talking dogs, wit, wisdom and poetry.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:58
tolerant1 (Telling IT LIKE IT IS.............................UH HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ID#373284:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:56
Frustrated (@aztec_A... BUFFORD...Aragorn III...Chas..... -- CAU) ID#338228:
Couple of interesting articles posted on the Yahoo Message Board:

see message #319...also may want to look at #306

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:47
tolerant1 ( and 6-Pak have decided to put together our own special forces team) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
and we leave for Russia soon...we intend on taking the entire soviet bloc with 10,000 Hershey bars ( wrapped in American flag paper ) 10,000 bags of Fritos, 10,000 pair of Levis, 10,000 pair of Converse sneakers, 10,000 basball mitts...balls and bats...

All distributed FREE on behalf of the American people...Me and 6-Pak figure we should take the bloc in less than 3 months...throw out the government and IMF...we can then make an equitable deal with the local mafia to handle all stadiums, sporting events and cable we will partner with them in a import/export company and start importing heaters, blankets, microwave ovens, Omaha steaks, etc...

Piece of cake...we are then going to arm everyone in the country and set up a Republic...have a brief ceremony...and then PLAY batter, batter, batter...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:43
vronsky () ID#427357:

RESIDENT South African gold stock analyst, the inimitable John Disney, provides another insightful and incisive report.

Earlier this year the Republic of South African ( RSA ) Rand hovered about 5 to 1 versus the US dollar. However, recent weeks witnessed a rapid run on the Rand - plummeting as low as R6.75, but currently trading betweeen R6.15 and R6.45. Paradoxically, the approximate 25% devaluation is a windfall for the RSA golds.

And this is not the first time a Rand devaluation has been a boon to South African Gold Stock prices. During the last 10 years the Rand suffered four notable devaluations. Subsequent RISES in the Johannesburg Stock Exchange Gold Index were:
+60% ( 1989 ) , +200% ( 1993 ) , +70% ( 1995/96 ) and up more than 30% after the 25% Rand devaluation this month.


Mr. Disney evaluates three direct beneficiaries to reap the Rand windfall: Durban Deep ( DROOY ) , Harmony Gold Mines ( HGMCY ) , and the 'dark-horse' Randgold & Exploration ( RANGY ) . His math exudes logic and clarity.

With or without a bull market in gold bullion, the increased profitability of these gold companies will be reflected in significantly higher stock prices. A must read.

Per custom it's necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word 'golden of the URL, before posting it to the Internet:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:42
JTF (Bank runs and Gold) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
aurator, sharefin: I think bank runs and the price of gold may not correlate as simply as you might expect. What matters with gold is whether the public is anxious about the stability of the banks, and has money to buy gold. During a full blown financial collapse such as what happened in Indonesia and South Korea, there were times that gold was being sold, not bought. Remember Jin complaining that no one was buying gold? Remember the South Korean gold sales? So the price of gold could could go up or down during a bank run, depending on what else is happening.

Gold is something you buy when you want stability or portability, and something you sell when you run out of other assets to sell to get food and shelter.

The way I look at gold is this -- during a bank run the price of gold is irrelevant if you have it already. At that point, you just care about the security, not how much it is worth. The time for gold to really appreciate is after the bank runs, the debt collapse, and at least some economic recovery, so that demand for gold returns. The people remember what happened, and no longer trust 'fiat' currency.

I have one other thought which explains the US market rally, and the strong US dollar. People collectively act like sheep, and take the path of least resistance. For example, if you are a Russian, you may hoard US dollars, not gold. The US dollar looks very stable if you live in any country that is going through significant devaluations. Why buy gold when US dollars look perfectly fine? Most Americans don't have a clue regarding that fact that the US dollar has feet of clay. But -- on the other hand, as long as people believe in the dollar, it will remain strong. The equity markets are the same way -- everything is built on faith.

Now, eventually the US dollar will weaken, but not until the other fiat currencies have stabilized. As long as all many other major currencies and other countries look worse, the dollar will shine. But -- when the dollar is one of the last few currencies standing, gold will start looking attractive. But not till then.

We gold bugs tend to overlook one variation of Gresham's law -- that the most readily available stable stronger currency is the one people gravitate to -- not necessarily the best one. The fiat currency gurus have historically thoroughly debunked gold as a currency in the US and England, and the stigma remains. Ownership of gold is much more acceptable politically in continental Europe, and in China than it is here.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:40
Dave in CO (@Steve in TO - OKC) ID#229103:
Thanks, Steve.

Where is the mainstream media coverage of this grand jury? I have followed this on the internet, but I'm sure that 99% of Americans don't even know that the grand jury exists. Why won't the media touch this story?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:39
Steve in TO__A (Steve - Perth . . . there is net inflation . . . ) ID#209265:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
in N. America because of asset price increases ( the stock market bubble. ) That is where all the increases in the money supply have been going.

The CPI doesn't include stocks & bonds- only what Treasury Dept. bureaucrats consider to be things people buy like houses, cars, food, etc.. Inflation is essentially non-existent on CPI items in N. America, and wages have been holding steady as well.

Commodity indices have been declining recently- deflation. The inflation in financial assets has more than offset the deflation in commodities, though. That is partly because of global capital flows, but mainly because stocks have become a consumer item that the Baby Boomers just have to have nowadays. When Baby Boomers feel a need for something, in this case retirement security, they go out en masse and start buying whatever they think will satisfy that urge.

Unsophisticated investors are always ruled by emotion, though, mainly by fear and greed, and should fear start to rise in the craws of the Boomers you'll see a mass stampede out of stocks into- something- the likes of which has never before been seen.

Will that something be gold? I heven't been able to figure that one out yet.

- Steve

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:32
oris (6pak) ID#238422:
Russian GDP of 1,022 billion in 1989
and 46 billion in 1997 !!!

Tell me why, if you can, it's a test of your abilities....

If you can not explain it, I'll tell you, but then you
failed the test...

By the way, you seems to have interest in Russia. Why?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:19
Steve in TO__A (OKC bombing here's another link . . . ) ID#209265:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for all you guys who are interested in the issue. Some new witnesses have come forward- including a witness who worked for the military and was ordered not to tell her story- or she would be fired! She saw T. McVeigh with another man in the building apparently planning the bombing. It was the fact he was with another man ( not L. Nichols ) that she was ordered not to tell:

How does this relate to gold? Well, everybody is focusing on the market factors that affect gold, but there are also emotional ones as well, and in particular fear is one emotion that can cause a tidal swell of popular sentiment toward gold. The coverup of what happened with the OKC bombing is so profoundly disturbing that the mainstream media have found it too hot to handle.

The best-case scenario one can propose is that some federal agents tried to pull of a sting that was woefully and carelessly mismanaged, and are hoping to cover up their folly that essentially led to manslaughter. It is not outside the realm of possibility, though, that this was not just a sting attempt. Perhaps this was a black-bag operation, performed for some government agency for political reasons! Americans are in deep denial about the politicization of law enforcement and military organizations- for example the Mena, Arkansas, revelations that were completely available to the public from Sen. Leach's committee seemed to just cause a collective shudder, and a wish that the whole issue would just go away.

Where will all this lead? If people finally become motivated to acknowldge the corruption of these agencies and deal with it, I think it can only be good for gold.

- Steve

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:18
Mooney* (@tsclaw+JD) ID#350194:
tsclaw - To seriously get through it all will take a full weekend, but thanks for sending anyway as it looks very promising.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:17
Dave in CO (Half of small businesses (LT 100 employees) in survey will ignore Y2K) ID#229103:
USA Today: Wells Fargo survey of those small companies who are aware of Y2K

An amazing 20% are not aware of the problem. If they depend on noncompliant software, I guess we know their fate.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:16
Steve - Perth__A (Spot on Pete & Tony Bull) ID#284170:
Copyright © 1998 Steve - Perth__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As a long time Kitco lurker, the following comment has really hit the nail on the head. The massive fall in world commodity prices, particularly oil & mineral resources gives the appearance of a deflationary spiral, but it is not deflation in itself. This is something I have been trying to get my mind around. Because the truth of the matter is that the money supply has been EXPANDING for a number of years. Hence the stock market has been continually INFLATING overall. I have been astounded at the rise in European & US markets particularly. Also, with no real solid signs that it is actually over. Possibly the over production is a phenomenon of globalisation, rather than deflation. The economic rationalism & globalisation is cannibalising Asia for the benefit of the wealthy share owners in Europe & US. Unfortunately the economic rationalist's level playing field will eventually savage the longer term earnings of the large companies. The logical question then is, what is it going to be like when there is a REDUCTION in the money supply? Like we saw in Japan a few weeks ago, maybe the Central Banks know they can't. That intervention must have shaken a few hedge funds. Maybe. Greenspan does know what happened in the 1930's. Read his own material. But we also know that you must pay for the expansion.

You wrote:

3. Deflation does not set in because of cheaper
commodities. Commodities are falling over the last 3
years worlwide. But, do you see any deflation in the
US? On the contrary you see economic expansion!

Higher production causes lower prices ( as is the case
with oil ) but do not confuse lower prices with
deflation. The definition of deflation is lower
prices resulting from a REDUCTION OF THE MONEY SUPPLY

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:15
6pak (Organization of Security and Co-operation @ Who the hell are they) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
July 9, 1998

Ethnic Albanians hold their ground

JUNIK, Yugoslavia ( AP ) -- Ethnic Albanian rebels held their ground Thursday near Kosovo's border with Albania after two days of attacks by Serb security forces. International observers took advantage of the lull to tour flashpoints in the province.

In Vienna, Austria, the Organization of Security and Co-operation in Europe, or OSCE, said Yugoslavia had agreed to let an OSCE delegation visit the country, including Kosovo, for about 10 days as part of international efforts to end the crisis.

The United States and European countries have demanded an immediate ceasefire and have threatened to crack down on the flow of funds to the KLA from Albanian communities abroad.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:08
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Senate exempts agriculture credits from nuclear sanctions

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- With millions of dollars of U.S. wheat exports on the line, the U.S. Senate voted Thursday to exempt agriculture credits from sanctions imposed on India and Pakistan in response to their nuclear detonations in May.

July 10, 1998

FOCUS-India resists pressure on N-test ban pact

NEW DELHI, July 10 ( Reuters ) - India's prime minister said on Friday New Delhi would not bow to Western pressure to sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty ( CTBT ) unconditionally, but was ready for talks on the pact.

Vajpayee says India can stand up to N-sanctions

NEW DELHI, July 10 ( Reuters ) - Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee on Friday shrugged off the impact of sanctions slapped on India for conducting nuclear tests and branded them unproductive.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:03
Tantalus__A (aurator@9:23) ID#374204:
You're India take is pretty close. We're probably
two-thirds that way, but still one-third FREEMEN.
It's the one-third that holds this place together.

I'm off to the office - one last thought

The problem with the rat race is that even if you win -
you're still a rat.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:01
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
uly 10, 1998

FOCUS-Russia promises to pay debts before wages

MOSCOW, July 10 ( Reuters ) - Russia will pay the market before it pays salaries and has given up hope of economic growth for this year, and perhaps next as well, senior government officials said on Friday.

The young band of reformers, facing protests and financial failure across the nation, told the upper chamber of parliament their first priority was to pay for what Russia had borrowed.

The situation on financial markets has got worse, treasury bill yields are rising, social tension is also growing, Prime Minister Sergei Kiriyenko told the regional leaders who make up the Federation Council.

We are ready to consider any proposal, but we simply cannot fail to repay t-bills.

Treasury bill yields hit 140 percent on Friday on fears parliament would not pass the programme and the International Monetary Fund would not agree a new multi-billion dollar package under negotiation.

But the senators supported the government, overwhelmingly passing a resolution in favour of the plan after ministers repeated the theme that the government did not have enough funds to meet all its commitments, including back wages and pensions.

We must change the legislation which we cannot fulfil, Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Susuyev told the senators, asking them to stop pension indexing and raise taxes paid to the pension fund, which owes over $2 billion.

Some governors, watching lights go out in their towns and factories as the government forces major tax debtors to pay up or go belly up, suggested the government give up on paying its debt, which the market-oriented cabinet rejected.

Russia will not let domestic debt servicing suffer by paying wage arrears, Finance Minister Mikhail Zadornov told Yevgeny Nazdratenko, governor of the Far Eastern Maritime province, who asked for a debt servicing moratorium.

Nazdratenko's region is one of the worst hit by power cuts, water shortages and protests by industrial and defence workers. The government plan, which faces final readings in the lower house State Duma on July 15-16, would raise some key taxes, lower others and make changes to improve revenue collection to get the country out of its current financial crisis.

Ministers backtracked on earlier rosy forecasts of real economic growth this year. It will probably be zero, Deputy Prime Minister Viktor Khristenko, in charge of revenues, told journalists late on Thursday.

As for 1999, there are forecasts of 0-1 percent GDP ( gross domestic product ) growth, but one percent -- that is fairly optimistic. Economy Minister Yakov Urinson told Izvestia newspaper the best case was for Russia to see some signs of growth by mid-1999 and worst case by the beginning of 2000.

But then, you have to take into account political factors surrounding elections as well as economic ones, Urinson said. Russia votes for a new lower house of parliament by next year and for president in 2000.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 10:01
tsclaw (@ John Disney) ID#327123:
Did you get through all of the data I sent to you?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:58
Silverbaron (Tantalus @ Pre-1933 gold) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

There are a lot of reputable dealers out there; I think it was yesterday ( or perhaps the day before ) that someone posted a good listing of dealers from the Safe Money Report. No doubt some of the good dealers here on the forum will also be glad to help you out.

I'm certainly not an expert, and I think it is best for you to find someone you trust by testing them out a few times on small orders before you commit a large amount of money to them.

I have personal experience in buying pre-1933 Gold from Jefferson, National Gold Exchange, and Coast-to-Coast Coins - I have never bought anything from any of them that was not as represented to me at time of the sale.

It has been a couple months, but the best prices I have seen on the French Rooster coins came from National Gold Exchange at 5.5% over spot gold. Coast-to-Coast is a mail-order dealer I use for small orders of coins - they have a diversified catalog selection, selling mostly to collectors, but still have competitive prices.

Phone numbers for these dealers:

Jefferson ( 800 ) 877-8847

NGE ( 800 ) 969-2646

Coast to Coast ( 800 ) 638-8869 website

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:54
6pak () ID#335190:

IMF's Odling-Smee arrives in Moscow for loan talks

MOSCOW, July 10 ( Reuters ) - A senior International Monetary Fund official arrived in Moscow on Friday for talks with Russian officials on a multi-billion-dollar credit package aimed at rescuing the economy from crisis.

The IMF's Moscow office said John Odling-Smee, head of the Fund's Second European Department, had arrived, but no details were available of his programme. Odling-Smee's department is responsible for the former Soviet Union.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:52
FOX-MAN__A (Thanks for the comments D.A. Any comments on this ML/Ted Arnold report?) ID#288186:
I, of course, think it's ridiculous just like others here do. BTW,
thanks Tolerant1, AragornIII, and others for your comments on this...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:48
John Disney__A (evening shadows fall ...) ID#24135:
to all ..
Rand settling at 6.4. Gold index up 41 or a little better
than 4 %. Rangold trading at US$ equivalent of $0.875.
Harmony $4.3.
At 6.4 to the dollar .. these mines will make a lot
of money in the 3rd quarter unless gold collapses.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:34
D.A. (the.usual) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

J. Aron is still at the helm of the good ship silver. Below 530 on Sept and they are buyers. 537 or there abouts brings selling. For whatever reason they are damping the volatility of this market. The bullish interpretation ( and that's what I like to present because I own the junk ) is that they are setting the market up for a run. First drive down the option premiums by keeping the price rangebound, then scoop up a boat load of out of the money calls when no one is paying attention. Then step aside the next time the market rallies and go bear hunting.

As Silverbaron has so aptly stated, the inventories of silver grind inexorably lower. Unless you are looking for a complete worldwide economic collapse ( as many are ) this process of inventory depletion is going to continue until there ain't none left or the price goes up a whole bunch.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:26
Bingo (Kiwi gold dealers) ID#263254:
I need a reference for a reputable and fairly priced gold broker in the Wellington area of New Zealand. A couple of references would be great. Thanks.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:23
aurator (Questions...for all merkans....) ID#257148:

I'm not looking for a fight, either, just understanding. One of the greatest cultural gaps we face is our shared language. Nuance and expectation taint our meanings, made all the more confusing by a common ( actually very uncommon ) language.

I wonder what tomorrow's chroniclers will say of merka today? What of my merkan friends, what say you, what is america today? I am always thinking of how India is not one country in anything but geography, what is America? Is it an accident of geography? Is it a history of Freemen? Is it the hope of melting-pot-humanity? What is America today? And once you have answered that, what do you see for America tomorrow?

Hope Springs Eternal.....

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:17
6pak (Russia & WWIII & Poorest in the world & 47,000 suicides & U.S Senators self-confident @ Nuclear ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Vitaly Golovachev

Trud, June 18, 1998, pp. 1-2

Polls reveal a decline in the public's trust in President Yeltsin. In a recent poll, respondents were asked to answer a single question: Will you support protest actions ( demonstrations, rallies, strikes ) which demand President Yeltsin's resignation? In May 1997 only 30% of the respondents said yes or probably yes, while over 50% answered in the negative. In fact, many of them disliked Yeltsin and what he was doing as the President but did not want to make a fuss or rock the boat. A year ago the adversaries of such radical actions outnumbered the supporters two to one.

Today those moderate moods are giving way to radical ones. The number of those prepared to join radical forms of protest has reached 44%. The number of adversaries of such actions has fallen to 38%.

The results of another poll show that a noticeable shift in the mood of our society occurred precisely in May. Between May 1997 and April 1998, the number of those who did not approve of Yeltsin's actions as President fluctuated only insignificantly and even decreased some ( from 72% to 71% ) . In May pollsters noticed an avalanche-like drop in trust in the President - 80% of the respondents expressed their dislike of what Boris Yeltsin was doing.

In May 1998 more than 50% of the respondents appraised their financial standing as bad or very bad. While 42% said they could not tolerate this state of affairs any more.

Western analysts say that beyond that point disruption of the social fabric begins.

Our country has also passed another line. They say abroad that the strata of the population living below the subsistence level should not exceed 10%. We have 21.6%. Unemployment should not exceed 10%. The State Statistics Committee estimates this figure at 9.2% That means 6.6 million people. Another 1 million Russians have been sent on unpaid vacations...
Many decide to take their own lives. Every 12 minutes someone commits suicide in Russia - over 47,000 suicides a year.

In other words, the reforms have brought about a catastrophic decline in living standards for most Russians, as well as other problems and difficulties which would have seemed impossible only six years ago: 66.8 billion rubles ( almost $11 billion ) worth of unpaid salaries, demographic deterioration ( every year the number of deaths exceeds the number of births by almost a million ) , the crime wave ( between January and April 471,000 serious crimes were reported, there were 424 abductions, 40 hostage seizures, and 13 terrorist acts ) ...

In 1989 the Russian GDP was $1,022 billion, in 1997 it was $46 billion. The US GDP increased from $5,981 billion to $6,785 billion over the same period... Although fantastically rich with natural resources, Russia is now one of the poorest countries in the world.

Translated by A. Ignatkin[>[ 3. 3]
Oleg Odnokolenko
Segodnya, June 18, 1998, p. 2

State Duma deputies attend seminar hosted by the Russian military on ratification of START-II. The only alternative to ratification of the Treaty is a return to the Cold War.

Those present felt a touch of Cold War wind in the conference hall. In order to make even the most obstinate deputies aware of what awaits us, the General Staff had to reveal a great deal and explain that, try as we might, it is simply impossible for us to remain at the former level of nuclear detente. In fact, even the levels stipulated by START-II are beyond our reach, financially and otherwise.

In truth, they are not so necessary, because the deployment of even 500 nuclear devices will have unpredictable consequences for both sides...

Why cling to our former nuclear pride, given the current economic and political situation? Even without START-II, our strategic nuclear forces
will expire sometime during the first decade of the next millennium.

America's forces are ten years younger, and their economic situation is worlds better than ours. Maintaining 8,000 nuclear warheads is not a problem for the US. But the Duma persists, screaming bloody murder about NATO expansion to the east.

In the meantime, the actual threat lies elsewhere. The recent nuclear escapades of India and Pakistan herald probable nuclear chaos. Israel is also known to possess something, nobody knows what Iran and Iraq actually have, and North Korea may well decide to press on with its nuclear program. These arms are doubly dangerous.

Back in 1993, RF Supreme Soviet committees warned the US Senators of the dangers inherent in the uncontrolled spread of nuclear weapons. The senators assured us that they would handle the problem when it arose.
Obviously, they were too self-confident. Now they demand emergency measures from all the nuclear powers and leading countries of the world. Mere trifles remain - to persuade France, Great Britain and China to begin negotiations. And these three do not want to listen to anything, unless Russia and the US decrease their nuclear arsenals to 500 devices each ( which is the level of the arsenals of these three countries ) . And without their participation, any work on universal guarantees of nuclear security is pointless.

In other words, everything now depends on our deputies' common sense: We will either revert to the Cold War and an era of nuclear tension, or create an atmosphere of nuclear stability. In any case, ratification of START-II is a must.

Translated by A. Ignatkin[ 3. 3]

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:15
Tantalus__A (Silverbaron@8:47 Pre-1933 AU) ID#374204:
Can you recommend any good sources? And how does one
protect himself from counterfeit, poor quality/condition
goods, scam artists etc...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:07
Tantalus__A (aurator@8:44 You get no argument from me) ID#374204:
You probably know and UNDERSTAND more US history
than 75% of US citizens. We've disintegrated here
to in you're face special interest groups to whom
Freedom only means free reign to feed at the gov't

A modern day shooting war rebellion here is indeed
unthinkably nasty.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:06
panda (FWIW) ID#30116:
The last 'bright' potential may be in the takeover game for the gold miners. Look at the list of miners, who has the deep pockets and who needs the cash? Who wants to increase their reserves? Yes, consolidation will be coming, barring some spectacular positive event for gold.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 09:01
panda (aurator) ID#30116:
Don't give any ideas! :- ) )

I 'like' the Wintel platform... I 'believe' in the Wintel platform... ( If you believe those statements, could I interest you in a gold mine? ) :- ) )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:55
panda (Speed) ID#30116:
I was going to post some charts of various PM stocks, but 'GIF' software package doesn't like me anymore since the latest system upheaval. I guess that I'll have to reload that one to! ... :- )

Not to keep anyone in suspense, but at this rate of decline, we will be bumping up against the 1993 lows soon for many of these stocks. The worst part of this is that the downtrend line has not been broken. Yes, there have been counter-trend rallies, but the main trend remains intact. DOWN.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:54
aurator () ID#257148:

and yer wonder why i drive a Mac?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:54
Pete (Post by Tony_Bull @ TVX Yahoo site. He should post here.) ID#222231:
Copyright © 1998 Pete/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Everyone should listen to someone who uses a common sense, logical approach to PMs, Inflation, Deflation. Tony_Bull, IMHO, has an analysis that should be heeded. COMMENTS?

Jul 10 1998
3:52AM EDT

I am sorry if I don't cover all your questions but
some I hope to be able to answer.

1. Gold goes up when preservation of capital can no
longer be achieved from paper investments.
The CPI in 1979 was 13.3, in 1980 it was 12.5. In
January 1981 gold peaked at a little over $800.

Did you know of any bank matching its interest paid to depositors
at those inflation rates? Obviously
not. Then the public turned to gold. But what also
counts is the rate of inflation acceleration. When a
trend line is established indicating that inflation
is heading higher, then gold becomes an investment.
If you believe that inflation will never exceed 5% in
your lifetime, then gold should be dismissed from
your portfolio.

2. All markets eventually peak when perceived values
fail to materialize. A few quarters with bad earnings
will be sufficient to stop any further inflow of money
into the stock market - that is informed money, not the money
poured in from 401Ks and profit sharings.

3. Deflation does not set in because of cheaper
commodities. Commodities are falling over the last 3
years worlwide. But, do you see any deflation in the
US? On the contrary you see economic expansion!

Higher production causes lower prices ( as is the case
with oil ) but do not confuse lower prices with
deflation. The definition of deflation is lower
prices resulting from a REDUCTION OF THE MONEY SUPPLY
which it has not happened yet.

4. On the issue of the EURO, I disagree with Dr. FungCool,
I think it will be a very strong currency. I will write
a post dedicated on the EURO and the reasons why the EURO
will be very strong.

5. Paying your house off with profits it is always a good
idea, but I personally would advise that your speculative
capital should never exceed 30% of your mortgage. Anything
more should be used to pay off debts or mortgage.

Some of your other questions, I believe they have been
answered in other posts after yours. If not, please ask.



TVX: Quote | Profile | Research
This Is a Reply to: Ms

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:52
aurator () ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
yes, this is just the first act in a long farce. Do keep us posted, it will be a treat. This WWW, for those of us who bask in't, is, perhaps, the crystallisation of the possibilities of humanity. Karma. How wonderful to find, birds of a feather.

Down the road a door or two, someone else connects with like-minded fold and discusses Morgans ( the horses ) , medicines, mathematics or madonna with your neighbours ten thousand miles away.

A Y2K F*Up, or the thought police are the only ( ? ) things that can spoil this. Oh yes, and foul language and thoughtlessness.

We got our days of rain, trenchfoot and rain...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:49
panda (Due to a momentary lapse of judgement...) ID#30116:
Copyright © 1998 panda/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I tried a new ISP for about three weeks. After deciding that this new ISP was unable to provide me with better line speed ( it's the phone lines, stupid! ) , I cancelled their service and deleted their browser software... Thus began another journey in to Windows NT registry/network Hell... It seems the 'uninstall' program worked sort of OK. It didn't clean up everything, and annoying idiosyncrasies cropped up. As I attempted to fix one problem, another, more serious one cropped up. To make a long story shorter, I had to re-install Windows NT ( after formatting the 'C' drive ) and re-install my software ( for the registry entries ) . The only good thing about this 'event', is that I never re-installed IE 4.0……………..

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:47
Silverbaron (Tantalus) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Yep - in part. I've been following the silver market for a number ofl years now, and although the short-term market conditions aren't transparent, it still appears that the stockpiles are decreasing year-over-year at a rapid clip.

One of these days, the stockpile will be gone, silver will blow up, and Central Banks don't hold any ( or at least not an appreciable quantity ) to dump on the market. I love Ted Butler's take on the situation, and Warren Buffet ain't stupid. It's a waiting game.

The problem with physical silver is its's not easy to store much of your wealth in silver, and it isn't very portable. Most of my silver interest is in the mining stocks ( PAASF, ECM ) , with only a few hundred ounces of the physical for use in emergencies.

Lately I've been only buying gold ( physical, pre-1933 only ) - since its so cheap, I was underweight in the physical area, and because the fundamentals are turning more positive with reductions in the gold-lending area.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:46
mapleman (WHICH IS IT) ID#348127:

Which do you think it is. Is the POG being held down so that the smart money can buy it all up while the fools buy into the market. Or do you think the POG is being held down to discourage people from buying. I can't tell, I do notice that it seems every time you get a dip in the market, there is a dip in the POG right arond the same time. Both theories make since - but which one is it?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:46
Speed (Panda @ PPI) ID#29048:
That number would be even lower if more gold had been used. : )

Globex S&P futures turned positive on the PPI news. Another up day for paper. Bart may have to reopen the Group Therapy for Gold Investors if the stuff doesn't move soon.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:44
aurator () ID#257148:

Now don't you get me going with your provocative Land of the Free. :- )

I done told a mass of stories like that in the archives. HA-HA-HA. But, on this Gold & PM Discussion group hosted in Canada on the WORLD-Wide Web, we sure do hear a lot about how you merkans aren't so free, eh? Makes me wonder why you've not honoured the memories of the men and women who died to free you from the oppressive taxation shackles of England.

Why aren't you free? Oh Merkans! My friends!
How can you accept your slavery so meekly?
Is it a proletarian satisfaction with Bread and Circuses?
Is it a guaranteed Bank Deposit?
A 401K, not rocking the boat?
Perhaps your revolution is indeed brewing.

Let's look at the facts.
Guns are being flashed. Stores are being laid down. The language of money is the language of war.

Could be nasty.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:38
Selby (aurator--Not stiffling in TO) ID#286230:
Its about 85F and sunny and will be until Monday. Interesting to see how the slander and ethnic name calling issue plays out. If we all become as responsible for what we post as we are for what we say its going to reduce the traffic on the net noticeably. I believe I posted the first public report of the matter and we will have to see how it twists and turns.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:37
panda (PPI rate) ID#30116:
The PPI rate is falling at 1.5% annual rate as of June 1998.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:35
panda (PPI) ID#30116:
No salvation from the PPI numbers........

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:28
Tantalus__A (Silverbaron@7:19 You're right, I missed it) ID#374204:
but now I've got it. Thanks for the info. It confirmed
much about what I've heard, but wasn't sure of.

The physical possesion of AU indeed has many obstacles
in This LAND of the FREE.

Is this why you are the SILVERbaron?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:28
jims (Gold down $1.60 Silver off 6cents) ID#252391:
Prices as of 7:50 eastern

Looks like a pretty tough day for the technicals in silver and gold unless these declines can be reversed. Yen has recovered to its NY close and the European currencies are slightly higher.

S&Ps off 100-200. NASDAQ 100 off 600 points

Anybody notice how weak the oils were in yesterday's NY trading? Real break down in the XOI. Were the funds and institutions building liquidity?

Smelling trouble . . .

Gold 275 before yen 150.?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:23
Donald (Morning gold news from London) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:20
Donald (Artillery introduced into Kosovo conflict.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:16
Gollum (games again) ID#35571:
As soon as the Hong Kong markets closed there was a drop in gold and silver prices. Looks like they are out there sweeping the access market again. I wonder what D.A. will have to say.

It looks like after the London market closes the goblin will be back.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:13
Gollum (@Auric ) ID#35571:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A run on a foreign bank would cause a loss of confidence in the banking system of that country and a loss of confidence in that countries currency which in turn would to safe haven flight to the dollar or whatever else was seen as a refuge.

A run on a US bank would work the same except the flight capital would be attempting to get away from the dollar ( dollars would become much less valuable ) . Since the dollar is a sort of lingua franca among currencies today it might even bring on a loss in confidence in the international banking system and paper in general. Hence, flight to gold or other real as opposed to paper assets.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:13
vronsky (Redemption -- A Matter of Justice by Dr Paul Hein) ID#427357:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

In referring to the time when money was sound, the premise of Money Expert, Dr. Hein, is quite simple: Paper was never the money, and gold and silver were not backing for anything. They were money in and of themselves--

He contends A Monetary Realist does not want money that is backed. If it is actual money, it does not need backing; and if it is not, backing is a sham.

Money doesn't need backing, but neither do bank notes. They need redeemability, on demand, in full. Anything less is a con game, even with government's full faith and credit behind it.

Dr Hein's comments ring with logic and clarrity in his view of what out money system should be to reflect monetary reality. His full report at following URL. He logically asserts Uncle Sam's guarantee of the dollar isn't worth the paper its printed on!

It is necessary to delete the extra letters en in the world golden before pasting the URL to your Internet finder:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:13
sharefin (Auric - POG and bank runs) ID#284255:
My opinion is that it will be strongly bullish for PM's
Real assets will fare strongly as people try to shift from paper.
Gold coin sales will escalate demand strongly.

We are already seeing coins sales increasing.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:11
aurator (Is it stiffling in To?) ID#257148:

Giday, well, I'd like to see them try the same caper in NZ. Our Privacy laws are pretty tight, and we like it like that. However, as Tim & Tort, and other Legal Eagles will assert, there's nothing quite so fascinating as the WWW for examining the tension between such legal/cultural/social constructs as freedom of speach, slander, freedom of information and privacy.

If this don't all go to hell in 18 months, we're gonna see some real good come of this...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:06
geoffs (Selby--Comments on article ) ID#432157:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:02
PMF (Bully Beef (re: E-Trades)) ID#224363:
Bully Beef,

I too was working with Richardson at $80 ( and up ) a trade ( $160 in/out ) and I got sick of it. Switched everything over to TD Greenline. Took all my RRSPs, all my paper investments, and put them in a Greenline accounts so I could track and trade them.

Greenline performance is sometimes a bit slow and sometimes you have to bug them to find out the status of a trade ( or to accelerate a trade ) but for longer term stuff ( not day-trading ) , they are great. WWW Access using a 128-byte encryption and very helpful staff.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 08:01
Speed (CHRISTO) ID#29048:
1. M3 money supply ( seasonally adj. ) is up 10.3% over last year.
2. Interest rates are low, making it easy to borrow.
3. Stock markets are up, creating a wealth effect. People feel richer and so are more likely to spend.
4. 134 million Americans are working ( 95.5% employment ) . That's a bunch of 401k and IRA money pouring into stock funds ( 24 billion in June ) .
5. Asian wealth has fled the crisis there.

I am sure there are more reasons, others will contribute.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:59
aurator (.........Wizdom......Eh, Norman?) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Not rilly in the perdicting bizness, me, but if I examine my belly button lint, while chanting a couple of verses of Nostradamus, spinning widdershins and supping Usque Bar, why, I'd say that gold would be useless in a bank run. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, that perhaps one of the best gold purchasing opportunities would be in a bank run.

I have just had an experience with my EFTPOS card. ( NZ has highest rate of EFTPOS retailing I believe ) After 8 years, I left the flaming thing in a terminal on Monday. I've had to go down country on business, I don't carry credit cards ( waste of money ) . I was told it would only take 2-3 days to send me another one. Fortunately, I keep stocks of cash. Had to fly, get a rental car, motel, stuff like that, and expected the new card to be here. I lost my bottle with the bank today, they had not sent the card, they muttered something about having problems with the embossing machine. I said I expect an apology from the bank. we'll see..

Right. So I've had to get by just on cash for 5 busness days. And you know something? Cash is King.

And when the bubble bursts, stand on a street corner, offer to give a penny in the pound for gold. You'll see Nick@cantaloupy on one corner, and mois on ANOTHER.

Changing paper for gold.

Ahhhh...but what does a miserly old salty know?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:58
Selby (This might reduce the Irrational Chatter Locally) ID#286230:
Copyright © 1998 Selby/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Philip pierces Net secrecy

Court decision gives beleaguered company access to names and addresses of
people who have made negative comments about the firm in Internet chat

The Financial Post
Philip Services Corp., its stock decimated by a barrage of writedowns and troubling accounting
practices, has quietly won a court order forcing about a dozen Internet providers to cough up
names and addresses of people who posted negative comments about the firm in an Internet
chat group.
The move has potentially chilling implications for privacy and the Internet. It means Canadians
who exchange information and opinions in chat groups have lost the traditional cloak of
anonymity and can be held liable for what they say.
The order, granted by Ontario Court Justice Nick Borkovich in Hamilton, was made ex parte ­
without Internet providers, including America Online Inc., AOL's CompuServe division, iStar
Internet Inc. and Weslink Datalink Corp., being notified or present to make arguments.
It instructs the providers to hand over to Philip names, addresses, e-mail addresses, telephone
numbers, computer serial numbers and other information for a specific list of messages posted
on Yahoo in April, May and June.
It doesn't stop there. The providers were also told to preserve all other messages sent by such
persons through the Internet providers.
And they were ordered to supply Philip with the real identity of the users who posted messages
under pseudonyms ­ common practice in chat groups.
Philip was granted leave to examine the information, although that decision was later reserved
pending another hearing.
The court also ruled that the files be sealed and expressly forbade the company, its employees
and agents to publish, speak about or distribute this order or any documents provided with the
Many of the messages, which can still be read, appear to make allegations of criminal activity
against Philip executives and express fears of what might happen to anyone who exposes too
much about the firm's activities.
But Philip spokeswoman Lynda Kuhn said it was company employees who felt threatened by
what they were reading. That's why Philip decided to act. She said some of the worst messages
have now been pulled by Yahoo at Philip's request.
The tone of the board became increasingly malicious and downright defamatory, Kuhn said.
It libelled employees of the company, issued threats of stalking, a whole range of ethnic slurs,
and got to the point where employees were very concerned. So the company decided it was
going to take action. At least one service provider, Weslink, said yesterday in a letter to Philip's
lawyers it was complying with the request and provided information.
John Gallagher, a former member of Hamilton city council in 1985-91, had his name, address
and telephone number turned over.
Gallagher, a municipal activist who walks with a cane as a result of a spinal injury received in a
car accident, scoffed at notions he is threatening. He said he stands by what he wrote, but
disagrees with the judge's decision to grant the motion ex parte ­ denying him a chance to
I'm disturbed that I wasn't present, or that I didn't have a representative present, to make
submissions, he said. I believe I had good reason for using aliases.
Gallagher, who said he has never owned Philip shares, also said he's troubled by the fact
Weslink provided his name.
I'm a little surprised that my server would not fight this vigorously and I have a lot of concern ­
and I'm sure a lot of Internet providers will feel this as well ­ that they didn't fight this all the way
to the Supreme Court [of Canada].
Weslink said in a late-day statement it views customer information as private to be utilized only
for the purposes for which it has been provided. It said rather than complying with the original
order, it went back to the court and was able to have the scope narrowed somewhat.
Lawyer Alan Gahtan, who is co-writing a book on Internet law, said obliging a provider to turn
over all messages sent by a particular user is troubling.
I think it's a serious infringement on privacy, said Gahtan, with the law firm Bennett Jones
Verchere. It sounds like they went too far.
It's almost like someone could go in and look at all the books that you've read. They can go in
and get all messages. Well, when you extrapolate it, does it mean that someone can go in and
get an order for every Web page you've looked at? You're getting into someone's head.
People shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet to commit illegal acts, such as libel, said
George Takach, who heads the high-tech practice at McCarthy Tétrault.
He predicted this case will send a definite signal.
It'll definitely be a wake-up call to that part of the Internet culture that views the Internet as
no-man's land where you can do anything and get away with anything.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:57
Auric (Russia Today) ID#255151:

Here is the website for Russia Today, an
internet daily. Good coverage of Russian
situation. I think this is written from Moscow. I don't know if the reporters are Russian or not.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:46
Auric (From Russia Today) ID#255151:

Chilling Y2K report.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:43
geoffs (Law Case coming up in Canada) ID#432157:

We will find out in due course what does FREEDOM OF SPEACH MEAN


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:22
Mike Stewart (JTF on Oil/Gas) ID#270253:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Stewart/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I compare the value of an Oil/Gas fund to its 200 Day MA. When it is two standard deviations below the normal ratio, I look for a 2% turn as a buy signal. This is a long term hold, not a flip. I had a buy signal on June 30th.

I also look at quarterly returns for the fund. If it is two standard deviations below normal, I call that a strong buy. Oil/Gas is there now.
Again this not a pinpoint type call, but a long term move. I never catch the exact bottom, but will hold for at least a couple of years.

I buy individual issues in various sectors based upon a series of technical and fundamental criterion. Some energy stocks are getting close to buy levels based upon this research.

I have only nibbled in the energy sector to date.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:19
Silverbaron (Tantalus_A) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Thu Jul 09 1998 21:09

Tantalus__A ( Silverbaron - when you return ) ID#374204:

I'm still very interested in the legalities/history of



You must have missed the article I promised for you; see the following post from yesterday:

Date: Thu Jul 09 1998 15:40

Silverbaron ( Tantalus @ U.S. gold confiscation - some historical information ) ID#289357:

With respect to gold coins you should look at with an eye open toward the confiscation possibility, I recommend the following ( only pre-1933 ) coins ( not listed in any particular order )

Swiss 20 Franc Helvetias **

British Sovereigns ( beware of counterfeits on these ) **

French 20 Franc Roosters

Mexico 50 Peso Centenarios**

** only if you can find the earlier issues ( pre-1933 )

Another good choice ( but at a much higher premium to gold spot ) are the U.S. $20 double eagles

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:10
Bully Beef (What's that film?... Waiting for Godot?) ID#259282:
It's a 12 hour film of the front door of an apartment building waiting for Godot to show up but she never does. Applause goes here.The worlds most boring film. Even if gold dropped 5 bucks today I think it would get me stirrred. Now 10 bucks up would make my day off! Go Godot ! GO GOLD!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:09
CHRISTO (SPEED Money into US Markets) ID#330209:
If the US savings rate is nothing to write home about, US consumption has not declined, housing starts are accelerating etc etc, one is left with a puzzling question. Where is all this money coming from?

Anyone any thoughts?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 07:07
sharefin (EB) ID#284255:
I'm alright - everything's OK.
Except for the ^*&$%#@#$&* painting.

I don't know whether you noticed.
But 99.9% of what I've posted on Y2k
Is not of my writing but opinions of others.
Many experts and leaders in their respective fields.

I am just providing their opinions.

Have a look at this survey;
Not mine but experts from your country.
Also from your Gov't:

Read the experts and make up your own mind.

As in all trading you have to make up your own mind.
Place your own positions and stops.
It's called taking a stance.

Now you probably know mine what's your thoughts on it?
Think Y2k will effect the POG?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:44
Speed (Money pouring into stocks...beware ye shorts) ID#29048:
July 10, 1998

Investors Plunge Into Funds, Adding $24 Billion in June



Investors plunged back into stock funds in June, plowing an estimated $24 billion into their coffers, a nearly 30% increase from net sales in May.

If anything, the June revival of investors' appetite for stock funds was even stronger than the official figures indicate. In May, according to the Investment Company Institute, a mutual-fund trade group,investors put $18.7 billion into stock funds. But that May sum was swelled by $5 billion in bank trust assets converted into stock funds. Such conversions usually represent money already invested in stocks, and don't indicate individual investors' decisions to move new money into stock funds. A spokesman for the ICI said such conversions were negligible in June.

The ICI estimate doesn't break out which types of stock funds got the money in June. According to estimates from AMG Data Services, about 20% of the money going into stock funds in June went into international or global funds, and about 10% went into U.S. aggressive-growth funds.

Another fund tracker, financial Web site, estimates that 90% of cash flow in June went into U.S. funds,and 25% into aggressive-growth funds. The strong flows into stock funds have continued, or even accelerated, in July. It is inaccurate extrapolating flows in the first few days of the month, especially at the start of a new calendar quarter. Still, July is at a pace comfortably ahead of June, said a spokesman for Vanguard Group, who added that individual investors decisions about

investing shouldn't be swayed by overall fund-buying trends.

Other observers also said July is off to a fast start. I'm surprised at how much money is pumping in, said Charles Biderman, president of Mr. Biderman estimates $6 billion went into stock funds in the first five business days of July. Some of the buying, now and in June, is due to pent-up demand. People would have bought in May, but the market was slumping, he said. By waiting to buy until the market rebounded, he joked, it looks as if they wanted to pay higher prices.

Investors apparently cut back on their purchases of bond funds. The ICI estimates bond funds took in $5 billion in June, compared with $8.7 billion in May. Although investors can lose money in bond funds, as in stock funds, bond funds are considered a safer investment than stock funds in sharp down markets. So-called hybrid funds, which invest in stocks and bonds, took in an estimated $1.5 billion in June, a jump from the $1.1 billion they collected in May, according to the ICI.

As previously reported, this is the last early estimate of fund sales the ICI will release; in the future, it will publish only its actual count of flows into funds, about three or four weeks after the end of the month.

IBC's Money Fund Report is published by IBC Financial Data Inc., a subsidiary of IBC USA ( Publications ) Inc.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:44
Auric (Gollum) ID#255151:

Is it possible that a massive bank run would make the US$ more valuable? My first thought was that Gold would skyrocket. But I'm not so certain now.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:32
Gollum (@Auric) ID#43349:
Any run on US banks and loss of confidence in the dollar would provoke an immediate rise in gold prices. The US dollar and banks are seen as a rock of solidity compared to other havens for flight capital right now.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:28
Gollum (@Explorer) ID#43349:
If the Euro is initially kept weak, it will become just another dollar wannabe if it survives at all. It must have at least a modicum of strength and confidence behind it or at least the appearance of such if it is to be taken seriously as a contender for the position of supreme global currency as the dollar now is. Perhaps later, after a successful debut, there can be some controlled weakening to help trade balances.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:19
Donald (Nippon Telephone units report combined loss of 255 billion yen.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:17
Auric (Gold Question) ID#255151:

IF, for whatever reason, there were a large run on US banks, what would that do to the price of Gold, in US$ terms?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:10
ROR (Russia) ID#412286:
A very interesting read. Then think about Clinton ie his past and what he is doing as President, It is hard to believe he has abandoned Taiwan. What message does that send. Anyway read

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:07
Donald (Swiss franc suffers from lack of safe haven demand) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:06
Auric (Russia Facing Economic Disaster?) ID#255151:
Opinion from Global Intelligence Update

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:04
GoldnBoy (@ All - I'd love to stay and watch the Street Tank today, but I gotta go...) ID#432112:
Well somebody has to listen to the Looe Key ( FL ) Underwater Music Festival! Ah Ha Ha Ha!...Go Gold!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 06:03
Donald (An army of Central Bankers to discuss role of the Euro in Asia.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 05:07
ERLE (Disney) ID#190411:
We got a blurb in our local paper about the rumblings in Africa.
Seems that another politician favored by the US state dept got whacked.
That was right in your neighborhood: Nigeria, land of the bank fraud schemes.

No, come to envision a globe, you are approximately the same distance to Lagos as I am to Panama City.
Good morning from the land of the Green Bay Packers. CHEESEHEADS.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 05:01
Hedgehog (If its war they want.....................) ID#39857:
Jabiluka here I come. I might cry. It will be meaningfull.
Could be Sunday I leave ..roars of right ring applause that
I willnot post hence my departure.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:58
RJ (.....Promey .....) ID#411259:

It works
I will henceforth
take up half the space
On this forum
Than I am accustomed to
( Loud cheers abound )

Uh Huh

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:56
John Disney__A (my dog is baying ..) ID#24135:
at the sun.
For aztec/jims/Erle
Market is volatile ! up about 4 %
when I last checked .. Rangy the
equivalent of $0.85 with the Rand
at 6.3. Dont know if I got more Harmony
or not.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:50
RJ (..... Solves .....) ID#411259:

..... That.....

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:48
RJ (..... Pesky Buggers .....) ID#411259:

Have read some of the suggestions to get rid of the pesky double spacing that occurs whenever you press a hard return in Word. I always post from the preview page. I will try to go back to the edit page and post directly from there.
If this works
There will be no spaces
Between these last few lines

But there should be a space here, yes?


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:45
RJ (..... Squirrel .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

If silver thou must buy
Buy the Silver Maple Leaf
Pay the premium for 1 ounce PURE silver coins
With a face value of about $3.90 US
I worked up the numbers recently
40% clads are the closet to face value
you can get in junk silver
But there is still about a 35% downside to hit face value.
The Silver Maple Leaf has about a 28% risk to hit face.
The coins are hermetically sealed in flats of 20 coins each
Each in its own little pocket
The solution to bartering in increments
Smaller than gold would conveniently allow
Is to be found in silver.
Buy not 90% coins, nor neither either not none 40% clad coins
Keep the metal pure and universally identified.
Also keep it non-reportable.
Bags-o-junk silver are reportable.
SLFs are not

No indeedy.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:35
aztec__A (@Aragorn3 & Bufford) ID#256250:
I've been watching the CAU price movement and doubled up at 11/16 only to watch it go to .44 than back to .56 in a day. For the life of me I can't figure out why the share price is so low. You would think the news of the halt on the new project would raise the price because that money goes straight to the bottom line? If CAU just continues it's present operations they might have earnings as high as Yahoo and we know what happened to that share price! Chuckle chuckle. Whatever happens I still don't think you can beat CAU or TVX for long term plays. Thanks for contributions to the site.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:30
Auric (World Stocks) ID#255151:

Lots of red in Asia. Europe red out of the gate.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:27
RJ (..... Dubba Dubba Dubba YOO BEEeeeee .....) ID#411259:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

About a month ago WB admitted on MoneyLine to leasing some portion of his physical holdings, aproxamately 30 million ozers. He would neither confirm or deny any outright sales. I doubt he is a gold buyer but platinum would fit into the whole silver-zinc battery whammy which is, after all, a fuel cell wannabe. WB owns a hunk of Gillette, who begat Duracell who begets battery thingies, yes?

This over simplistic view could prove the wisest course. It is a hell of a lot easier to lock up PGM stocks than gold ( impossible ) or silver ( improbable ) . Witness Tiger's hoard of palladium which is, when the truth comes out, the sole source of recent unofficial palladium sponge shipments from Russia.

A man like WB is looking further forward than most and his horizons are never easy to discern but I too think we will hear of more silver purchases made by Berkshire between 4.98 and 5.20. Perhaps even some platinum purchases also, although this is a fond hope of something that makes good sense but I have zero evidence to back it up.

I suspect another slam down in silver and gold soon. Not severe and nothing we haven’t seen in recent weeks. If platinum can hold through this, my comfort level will rise tremendously. The charts say platinum used a lot of strength getting up here and there is room for a fall. The rally however, was mostly short covering, added to modest new buying. Traders report that there was consistent selling as the price rose, but platinum has managed to hold on to its gains in the face of this selling. The buy stops are tight and a half dozen can be blown through in a morning.

There are some discrepancies between JM platinum estimates and the CPM Group’s most recent report. It has to do mostly with jewelry demand. I may touch on that in tomorrow’s review at

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:25
Explorer () ID#22882:

Somebody is buying copper, the inventories in NY and London have been falling, but copper prices are not reacting. Probably the advent of new capacity is taming the price. The low price could force a few ( old and new ) producers out of action effecting by-product gold.
But troubling is where the copper is going.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:22
aztec__A (@J Disney) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 aztec__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Long time no chat.
The fiance just got out to AZ about a month ago and what a hassle it has been.
I've only had the time to read some of the posts from day to day. Seems a few folks went a little too long on the bottle. Oh well, they'll be back.
I see the SA fan club has taken the summer off. I assume Kebble will delay the Rangy breakup until its a bit more profitable? Poor Drooy, $2.12 today I think. The SA's are so cheap I'm afraid if I buy some more I might be arrested for larceny.
You've had some good calls lately, stogies and horses to ya!
I best get going El Coyote viene muy temprano manana!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:09
EB (Jake.............on grains and gold. and finthatshares...) ID#187109:
He's all over it...well, he talks about it anyway

away.....for zzzzz's


sharefin..................I think you need to back up and take a deep breath and focus on both sides of this WhyTwoKay. You are being consumed and your judgement may be getting cloudy. Take a break dude.............go fishing. Better yet, go'll clear your head.............................. ( whoa! ) . Am I gonna have to smack ya' around a little to rattle the noggin? Sheeeeeesh. It is good to prepare for the worst and also have contingiencies in case it is a less than major event. You give me the willies sometimes.................... ( Dang! ) Do not pass go w/o collecting your $200 ( figure-o-speech ) .........We ( kitco ) will hate to lose such a good soul..............uh huh.

go plat ( . ) !

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:07
jims (John Disney) ID#252391:
Does that full sun tonight smile on HGMCY tonight

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:07
Explorer () ID#22882:

I think that the Euro will be initially kept weak to spur trade and the US will have even wider trade deficits than normal.
This makes me ponder the possibility of some mid-east oil producers asking for partial payment in gold bullion.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:02
John Disney__A (we're upside down you see) ID#24135:
We get the moon during the day and
the sun at night.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 04:00
jims (South Africans UP) ID#252391:
South African golds up 3%+ in early trading. Rand at 6.28. Corrective rally seems to have its course. Only bright spot in the gold universe for those who count in dollars, that is.

Yes, I wonder how many time ML /Arnold will have Buffett sell his silver. Agree with earlier post - if he sold it the last time this rumor rocked that market why does he still have it for sale.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 03:58
Squirrel (Silver dimes are too small and Gold coins to large (in US$) ID#287186:
Silver quarters are 0.18 ounces of Silver - about 97 cents ( at US$ 5.35/ozt ) or about a dollar at $5.50/ozt. The new/old Silver Dollar!
Dimes would be about 40 cents at today's prices.
If Silver went to $14/ozt then the Silver dime would be worth one US$.
Maybe I should pick up some dimes too.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 03:55
ERLE (Disney, ) ID#190411:
There is an almost full moon out tonight on the US.
Do you have a moon in SA?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 03:51
Auric (Merrill Lynch HA!) ID#255151:

So, they're saying it's bad for Silver, eh! Get a load of what these guys have to say about Y2K ( a very short article )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 03:24
Squirrel (Back on topic - I too shall be buying more soon - of Silver) ID#287186:
I do look for it to duck below $5 again. Then I buy even more.
Regarding Gold though. I am wary of it at this price.
Many here may regard it as bargain basement low.
I think it is still too high for me to buy much now.
I agree with those who think it may sink to low $200s.
Or lower.
I can't justify or afford more than an ounce or two for now.
Instead I put what I can afford into supplies and Silver.
I'm tending to 1oz Maple Leafs rather than junk silver.
But I may pick up a partial bag of quarters.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:43
sam__A (Did Buffet Sell? -- Minor correction (FWIW)) ID#286253:

Last paragraph should read: So: If Buffet has sold, he has sold only silver that was not ( and could not have been ) delivered - paper silver. He made a handsome profit and, by supporting the system, neatly side-stepped comparisons with less savoury characters. A fine act indeed.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:18
Squirrel (Weather here is cool, rain, and of course dark.) ID#287186:
Monsoons have not let up. We can use the rain though.
KB&G is open and I'm over there.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:16
Squirrel (Sorry about being off-topic, but I heard a heck of a crash) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since I live above my store, and the crash was from the street in front
( and since I'd rehearsed this in my mind ( and dreams ) numerous times
My first thought was the display windows.
Grabbed my 44, down the stairs, outside and around to the front...
checking the windows as I went. No shattered glass.
Stood in my doorway to the store armed and scared.
Looking up and down the street to find out what the heck happened?
I see no broken windows elsewhere.
But I do see suspicious pedestrian and vehicular movements.
Duck inside to get my cordless and call 911 to report what I'm seeing.
They ask me to stay on line and keep them informed.
Finally a cop shows arrives up the street.
Somebody ran down one of our new Victorian-style street lamps.
Ah - that is why the lights are out on my side of the street.
He is collecting pieces for evidence.
He sees what I am carrying and asks me to go home.
I do so and put my weapon back where it usually resides.
All is safe with my store. But in hindsight...I was lucky.
I made a few mistakes in my approach to the situation.
More rehearsals and likely more dreams.
Next time I shall be more careful.
It may not be a lamppost - and I may not be so lucky.
I must be better prepared - mentally and otherwise.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:09
sharefin (Buffett won't be giving a damn - he knows what lies ahead....) ID#284255:
He'll be buying more.IMHO.

Our markets are very nervous.
Something not nice is going on.
Something to come out from stage left?

Just had to post this email I received:
Date: 98-07-04 01:48:28 EDT
Subject: CNN Discovers Bank Run Survey. Word Begins to Get Out.


I have already posted a link to the original report. I am posting this
one because word is getting out beyond the narrow audience of CIO
MAGAZINE. CIO MAGAZINE conducted a survey. People without mainframe
computer experience were asked what they would do if they thought the
Millennium Bug threatened the banks. A quarter of them replied: Take
my money out of my bank.
This is a rational response to the y2k threat. The banking industry is
uniquely vulnerable. First, there is no major money center bank on
earth that is compliant. Second, the Japanese banks are too pressed
by the Asian banking crisis to devote the kind of money necessary to
fix their y2k problem. Third, if any bank should get compliant, it
will be threatened every time it shares data with a noncompliant
computer, which is all day long. Fourth, to avoid this threat, it must
pull out of the banking system. Fifth, this will collapse the banking
system unless virtually all banks are compliant, which no one publicly
is saying is likely and for which there is zero evidence. Sixth, when
depositors figure this out and accept it emotionally, they will pull
cash out of their banks.
The fractional reserve banking system is doomed. The Millennium Bug
will destroy it in 2000 unless bank runs in 1999 do. I predict the
latter. When the banks go down, the depression will begin. Most y2k
repairs will cease: businesses will not be able to afford to pay
programmers. Programmers will quit. They will move to safer places.
All the public relations hype in 1998 about systems being ready for
testing in 1999 is just that: hype. When the deadline is universally
extended in the first week of January, 1999, the public relations game
will be in the final quarter. When fiscal year 2000 arrives on April
1, 1999, in Japan, Canada, and New York State, the banks will be
exposed in all of their magnificent nakedness.
The emperor has no clothes. Does he have your money?
Fractional reserve banking rests on a lie: a promise to pay cash to
all depositors on demand. It cannot be fulfilled if more than a small
percentage of depositors exercise their legal right and demand their
cash. The world will learn in 1999 and 2000 just how big a lie this
is. Fractional reserve banking will be gone by the middle of 2000.
Be prepared.
The premier personal indicator of whether or not you think y2k is a
threat to society is how much cash you have pulled out of your bank.
The more you believe that y2k is a threat, the more cash you have
removed. The implications of the Year 2000 Problem story will
eventually penetrate the thinking of the vast majority of people.
Those fearful 25% interviewed by CIO MAGAZINE have got it right. All
it takes to start a worldwide bank run is the realization that y2k is
objectively a threat to the banks. Long before the majority of
depositors catch on, the banks will be closed. The governments of the
world will have intervened to close them. Governments will impose
emergency orders forbidding people to get their cash out, even though
the banks have promised that people can get their money out on demand.
The promise is only good if hardly anyone calls their bluff.
It's the premier bluff of the modern world. This bluff will be called
by depositors in 1999.
The Millennium Bug is objectively real. The banks are objectively
threatened by a computer breakdown. There is no technical solution.
There are too many banks around the world. There are too few
Thus, you face three options:
1. The banking system will collapse with all of your money in it.
2. The banking system will collapse with some of your money in it.
3. The banking system will collapse with none of your money in it.

I know the option I prefer. But it's up to you.
The Millennium Bug has doomed fractional reserve banking. The person
who says, Don't take your money out of the bank; don't panic, is
really saying, You should subsidize the guy who is smart enough to
draw an onvious conclusion from the facts. The banking system is going
down, with or without your money. But you should let that other guy
get the cash that you could get. It's the humane thing to do. Is it?
Understand this fact: the ATM machine is a high tech bank run device.
Forget about the scene of Jimmy Stewart begging depositors not to pull
all of their money out. Wherever there is an ATM, there will be a
line of people. A cash withdrawal is impersonal and easy. ATM's are
The ATM's ( which are rarely compliant ) will break the banks in 1999.
Lines will form in front of every ATM. These lines will be visible.
The panic will spread right there in the store, where housewives are
The banks will shut down their ATM's. Then the government will shut
down the banks.
Meanwhile, those who were wise enough to have quietly pulled their
cash out of banks before the panic hit will be in a position to make
up to ten to one on their investment in cash, tax free, in 2000 and
beyond. ( Remember, the government does not tax profits from buying
distressed goods at a discount for cash. )
You forfeit 2% per year after income taxes if you hold your money in
cash rather than in a bank. If the banking system goes down in 1999,
you will lose 100%. If the depression hits in 2000, you might make ten
to one on your cash. What do these numbers tell you?
He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Soon.
I'm like a public health officer who posts a warning that a plague is
coming and that there is not enough vaccine to protect everyone. I did
not create the plague. I did not make the decision to save money by
not producing enough vaccine to treat everyone. I just tell whomever
will listen that a plague is coming, and he ought to get vaccinated.
Those who are in the tourist industry do not like plague stories.
Today, the whole world is on tour. The ship is the Titanic II.
Warning: it's a felony for a U.S. resident to take $10,000 out in
cash and not have his bank report it. Over how long a period? The law
is vague; it might be interpreted as a full 12 months.
This story is on CNN's Financial Network ( June 12 ) . Yes, Ted Turner's
CNN. The story has hit the major media. This information will
eventually register psychologically. When it does, it's game over
for fractional reserve banking.
Let me ask three questions:
( 1 ) Was it wrong for CIO MAGAZINE to take the survey?
( 2 ) Was it wrong for CNN/FN to run the story?
( 3 ) Is it wrong for me to point out some obvious conclusions?

A lot of bankers would answer yes to #3. So would a lot of
government bureaucrats. But what about you? What's your answer?

* * * * * * * * *

CIO magazine has completed a survey that indicates more than a third
of U.S. residents have never heard of the Year 2000 bug. Of those who
have, says the magazine, four out of five shrug it off as a technical
problem that technical types will no doubt solve before a crisis
happens. Unlike earlier CIO surveys, this one covered regular citizens
people instead of information technology ( IT ) professionals. CIO
publisher Gary J. Beach says he found some of the results stunning.
Most troubling, Beach told Newsbytes, was that more than half ( 52
percent ) of the respondents, including those who shrug off the
problem, said if it isn't solved by mid-1999, they will move their
money around. A full quarter said they would simply put it under their
mattress until the Y2K events are over.
Think about half of the assets of the US middle class being moved
around, and half of that taken out of the system completely over a
period of six months, Beach mused. It would be a disaster. I
certainly hope the bankers are thinking about it, because the ice here
is not very thick. Beach warns that if US citizens decide the Y2K
problem cannot be fixed in time-a likelihood that IT professionals now
largely acknowledge-the result could be a run on banks to put the
1930s local banking panics to shame.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:06
Wizened (How many Gold producers do you know who pay dividends..How many even make money.) ID#242303:
The management draw fat slaries as I see from the latest slew of annual reports, even when their companies are losing money and stock prices are decimated.

Buy physical.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:02
Wizened (I am sleeping a lot easier since I sold my gold stocks a few weeks ago..) ID#242303:
but it could also be because I have some physical gold tucked away.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 02:01
George__A (gold) ID#433172:
Hongkong gold up,silver too. Up good

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 01:54
tolerant1 (ravenfire, Namaste' I agree...personally I would like to know what Mr. Buffett is) ID#373284:
doing privately...behind his own closed his house...I really enjoy reading John Kutyn at gold - eagle...the only thing is he can really get ya depressed...oh's just like that some times eh...

A Reserva gulp to ya...

and a good evening/morning to all...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 01:44
ravenfire (tolerant1 -- re: WB) ID#333126:
it would not surprise *me* if it turns out that WB one day announces that he has bought a significant amount of the COMEX gold either ...

ditto Platinum ( maybe )

it will probably take something major like the threatened lawsuits over Silver last time to force him to admit anything though ...

like a shrewd power player he keeps his hand to himself...

( dang, where are my Aces when I need them? maybe that bubbly will help me remember ... cheers, mate )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 01:40
Rack (Tolerant1-thank you for the reply) ID#402131:
Tnat is what I thought happened also.
PS to all-John Kutyn has another post at golden-eagle
Night all!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 01:20
tolerant1 (sam...Ted Arnold is a royal _ _ _ _ I will leave the rest to your imagination. I would) ID#373284:
not be suprised to hear that Mr. Buffett has purchased another 100 million ounces of the white metal...nope...would not suprise me at all...not one bit...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 01:13
EB (¡DJ!) ID#187109:
give us channels!
away.... ( $ )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 01:12
Dave (@ Bolts from on high have arrived, ) ID#269207:
were people, more aware, they would see, that the Bolt appeared when the person holding this HIGH office publicly suggested, FROM THAT OFFICE, that Officers and enlisted men, sworn to uphold our Constitution and laws, should not ask and should not tell, to avoid and invalidate our Constitution and laws, smacks of a demand for Impeachment proceedings to me...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:59
Dave in CO (@Gloomy Gus) ID#229103:
Was worried about you. Last I read, quite a few months ago, you had taken major losses in the metals markets and seemed depressed.

Did you win the lottery and invest more?

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:58
sam__A (Did Buffet sell?) ID#286253:
Copyright © 1998 sam__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

A couple of months ago, Ted Arnold of ML reported that Buffet had sold a substantial amount of his vast silver holdings; the spin was that Buffet was getting out while the getting was good. The spin worked ( or at least appeared to ) as the bottom fell out of the market.

Two questions: 1. Did Buffet sell? and 2. Is this bullish? Let me suggest a scenerio that answers both these questions in the affirmative.

Go back to Jan. 98. The market was in backwardation, lease rates were double digits and there was a 5% premium in London. Obviously, available physical silver was being leached from the system and the system may well have been in danger of running dry.

Begininng of Feb. 70% lease rates. London dealers hold a special ( emergency? ) meeting. Buffet shows his hand: He has bought 129 million ozs; 90 million are already in his possession, 40 million are to be delivered some six weeks hence. It was the 40 million ozs to be delivered that caught my eye. With lease rates at 70%? Oh Ohh. Phone calls are made.

Possible scenerio: With the 5% London premium, the dealers there could well have been doing something along the lines of the following: they sold forward to Buffet for March ( 7? ) delivery and covered by going long in New York ( and perhaps elsewhere. ) The spectre? Dealers standing for a _whole_ whack of silver, both OTC and COMEX, over the coming six weeks. All at a time when liquidity was evaporating and evaporating quickly.

Phone calls are made. Arrangements are suggested. To upset the system would be in no-one's interest, yes? Of course not. All right then, very good.

And a true-blue squeeze is thus averted.

So: If Buffet has sold, he has sold only silver that was not ( and could have been ) delivered - paper silver. He made a handsome profit and, by supporting the system, neatly side-stepped comparisons with less savoury characters. A fine act indeed.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:56
sam__A (Thoughts on Ted Arnold's Ditty Today.) ID#286253:
Copyright © 1998 sam__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

1. A couple of months ago, Arnold reported that Buffet sold at the top and in this way reduced his average cost down to $4.70 or so. Now Arnold contends Buffet's average cost is $5.50 and the man from Omaha is sweating. Apparently, Mr. Arnold wishes that Mr. Buffet were to have his silver and sell it.

2. There may be good reason to believe that Buffet did sell a little at the top, ( see post Did Buffet sell? ) so let's suppose his average cost _is_ around $4.70. Today we're at $5.30 -- a 13% gain over ~8 months. Eyebrows get raised at this? How 'bout we go through ML's Strong Buy list and compare notes?

3. At the very least, Buffet has a billion dollar investment in something that pays 4%, about the same as the 3 yr ECU bond. A wasting asset indeed.

4. The supply-demand numbers for silver look a lot better than the supply-demand numbers for 3 yr ECU bonds.

From the angle of your choice, Buffet's investment looks pretty good right now. Unfornunately, the very existence of Buffet's hoard now lends itself to the silver shorts in much the same way CB holdings lend themselves to the gold shorts -- both are stockpiles to be liquidated at any moment - so watch out! Of course, neither are for sale, but that won't stop them from selling these assets, in the press and elswhere, again and again and again.

We should have a little contest - How much of Buffet's silver does Ted Arnold report as having been - or about to be - sold over the next three years. Bidding starts at 600 million ozs.


Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:43
JTF (Deflation in which currency) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Silverfox: When a country such as Indonesia had its currency crisis, there was a period where foreign investment funds were suddenly withdrawn, and their economy collapsed. Now all of a sudden they had no money to buy things, and the prices of goods ( expecially foreign ones ) skyrocketed. So the Indonesian currency crisis caused local inflation. But, outside that country, the price of gold and a variety of commodities such as oil went down. The Indonesians could no longer afford either in significant quantities. Now add the effect of the other SEAsian countries, Japan, and the looming threat of the Chinese Juan devaluation.

So -- looking from the point of view of countries that did not experience a currency crisis -- the Indonesian crisis and others were deflationary. My guess is that the US will be the last to fall, hence the US dollar may remain strong for some time. And -- if the prices of goods moving to the US keep dropping in the meanwhile -- that will be deflationary for the US. And possibly stimulate the US stock markets for a time, repeating the 1920's scenario.

I do not profess to know for sure whether inflation or deflation will dominate in the US, so I will watch the US dollar, interest rates, and commodity prices, and buy gold equities when the conditions are right for a rally.

I think only silver equities and physical precious metals are a secure buy right now -- not gold equities. Have you seen how much diamond stocks have dropped, as well as Debeers? It is not just oil that has plummeted far in excess of the rise of the US dollar. It also appears that La Nina is not going to give us a cold winter on the east coast this year.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:40
tolerant1 (Rack, Namaste' I am certainly no expert...but from what I understand there were) ID#373284:
no bullion coins back then. Todays collectables were in circulation. Therefore collector coins would have been proof sets, rare ( at that time ) I believe it primarily means bullion... bars.. could argue if you have a set of coins ie...a mint state series of the same coin from ounce on downward.

But who knows...laws don't seem to matter at the highest levels and they just change them to suit their pathetic fraudulent ways anyHOW...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:35
Gloomy Gus (Butterflies dreaming of Gloomy Garbanzos) ID#428207:
Who dreamed it, you ask? I did..then I got hold of some prozac. Prozsc will get you through a time of no gold better than gold will get you through a time of no prozac.

Gold bugs, trade all your gold for prozac. I can help you email me

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:31
Gold Dancer (Silverfox) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Everything you say is true. I agree. I don't think deflation is
going to hit very hard. I think inflation is coming back one more
time. I think we are at the turning point and this is why the fear is
so high about gold etc. AND why the price/value is so low/Good.
I think physical is good and I have some but because it can be stolen
I have enough to get by for a year. I own good mines because it's
harder to steal gold in the ground. ( Although lawyers present problems )

This is the best time in the history of this country to sell stocks
and buy gold/gold stocks,energy,silver also.

Thanks, GD and good night.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:30
tolerant1 (Crystal Ball, Namaste' a dear friend always good to see your posts...and a gulp) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1 All rights reserved
to you and Lady Myra...and in your Honor for sending this to me and scarring my lungs from laughing...I present the following to all of Kitco for their reading enjoyment...and now...


Introducing the new Bio-Optic Organized Knowledge device, trade-named BOOK.

BOOK is a revolutionary breakthrough in technology: no wires, no electric
circuits, no batteries, nothing to be connected or switched on.

It's so easy to use, even a child can operate it. Compact and portable, it can be used anywhere, even sitting in an armchair by the fire, yet it is powerful enough to hold as much information as a CD-ROM disc.

Here's how it works:
BOOK is constructed of sequentially numbered sheets of paper ( recyclable ) ,each capable of holding thousands of bits of information. The pages are locked together with a custom-fit device called a binder which keeps the sheets in their correct sequence. Opaque Paper Technology ( OPT ) allows manufacturers to use both sides of the sheet, doubling the information density and cutting costs.

Experts are divided on the prospects for further increases in information
density; for now.

BOOKS with more information simply use more pages. Each sheet is scanned
optically, registering information directly into your brain. A flick of the finger takes you to the next sheet.

BOOK may be taken up at any time and used merely by opening it.

BOOK never crashes or requires rebooting, though, like other devices, it
can become damaged if coffee is spilled on it and it becomes unusable if
dropped too many times on a hard surface. The browse feature allows you
to move instantly to any sheet, and move forward or backward as you wish.

Many come with an index feature, which pin-points the exact location of
any selected information for instant retrieval.

An optional BOOKmark accessory allows you to open BOOK to the exact place you left it in a previous session, even if the BOOK has been closed.

BOOKmarks fit universal design standards; thus, a single BOOKmark can be
used in BOOKs by various manufacturers. Conversely, numerous BOOK markers
can be used in a single BOOK if the user wants to store numerous views at
once. The number is limited only by the number of pages in the BOOK.

You can also make personal notes next to BOOK text entries with optional
programming tools, Portable Erasable Nib Cryptic Intercommunication
Language Styli ( PENCILS ) .

Portable, durable, and affordable, BOOK is being hailed as a precursor of a new entertainment wave.

BOOK's appeal seems so certain that thousands of content creators have
committed to the platform and investors are reportedly flocking to invest. Look for a flood of new titles soon.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:30
6pak (USofA Anthropologist & Russian Czar & Russian Orthodox Church @ Church will not say whose bones? ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Thu Jul 09 1998 13:31
6pak ( Russia - Religion ( 600 Orthodox ) - General Rokhlin - Gorbachev - Yeltsin - USofA - Balkan @ Evil Hmmm ) ID#335190:
J. Adams
July 11th, 1997

Why would Moscow intentionally bring about the seeming collapse of Soviet Communism? Because of the Russian Idea.

One of the most suspicious features of the move to restore the Russian Orthodox Church in recent years is the renovation and rebuilding of churches. Even though the Russian government is supposedly broke

................Information last updated on: 09/29/97


July 9, 1998

Russia gets ready to bury the czar, but not the past

MOSCOW ( AP ) -- When Russia's last czar is finally put to rest next week, he will be buried in a smaller-than-usual coffin. Instead of a 21-gun salute, he'll get just 19. And instead of a bishop or patriarch, a local priest will do the honors.

Katherine Verdery, an American anthropologist
For some Russians, burying the family in proper graves is an act of national contrition, a way to ask forgiveness for the sins of communism.

That decision set off a chain reaction that resulted in the president pulling out and invitations being scaled back to ambassadors and relatives.

Russian Orthodox Church

The church says it's reluctant because society is still divided over the question of whether the bones are those of the czar.

So the church has struck an awkward compromise: A local priest will recite a simple requiem for the souls of all the Romanov martyrs, but not say whose bones are in the small, skeleton-sized coffins.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:28
Gazebo (Crystal Ball......) ID#430212:
There are a lot of gold mining companies with share prices up around $18.00 about 1 1/2 years ago and now are trading at $2.00 Who would
have dreamed it!!!!!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:21
Copyright © 1998 SILVERFOX/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have a hard time with the deflation arguments. Everytime someone brings up that issue, I want to ask in what currency? Do you think the people in Indonesia, or Malaysia, or the Phillipines, or Korea, etc. are feeling deflation? Hyperinflation is more like it. What about England or Germany? Didn't England raise its interest rates recently to soften inflation?

Is there deflation in the US? We certainly have deflation in commodities, but we also have inflation in asset values. Isn't the FED on a bias toward raising rates to preempt a rise in inflationary pressures?

Japan may have deflationary pressures, but it is still coming off its own bubble economy and artificially high prices for just about everything.

IMHO, we are in a world-wide currency crisis, not a depression style deflationary crisis. Exchange rates are violently changing and that is affecting prices of commodities, goods and services traded throughout the world.

When we once again have stable exchange rates, we will have more stable prices and less talk of deflation. Dines said it best in a recent interview when he gave this advice to CBs - get the message, adequate gold reserves equate to stable currencies!

On the other hand, if not solved, the currency crisis could cause a world wide depression which, of course, would result in deflation.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:20
Crystal Ball (@ PM stock fiends) ID#287367:
SSRIF ( SSO Canadian ) Silver Standard Resources hit a low of $US 2.00 today. Who'd a thunk it? DROOY hovering around $US 2.00
If these babies are not a screaming buy, then I don't know what is.

AOL at 115? Well of course there's that BIG quarterly dividend :- )

Hey, Jolly Ole Uncle Tollyrant. You need another niece and nephew? Wanta adopt me and Myra? Shore like them sovereigns. :- ) A BIG gulp of Cuervo GOLD to ya. Namaste'.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:20
Rack (Collector coins and the 1933 Executive order/theft) ID#402131:
Copyright © 1998 Rack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I just finished reading a freeby from centennial Coins I got from it makes mention that the order to deliver all gold coins to the Government did not include Gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins, including all gold coins made prior to April 5 1933, have been exempted from such delivery requirements My question is-If the order was put into effect in 1933 would not that mean existing coins ( all coins? )
were exempt? In other words, they removed gold from coinage after that date? I always thought they took them all except for the rarest of the rare.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:18
JTF (Gold Price trends) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
tolerant1, Gold Dancer: It is true that gold has been in a 'deflationary period for nearly 20 years, but I am not reffering to that. I am referring to the deflationary period of the last two years. Very different trend due to its severity, and its effect on the big gold holders like Central Banks. I think the only item that is guite clear is that physical gold is the better buy right now, not gold equities. Premiums on gold coins are going up.

I do have gold investments, but most of my liquid assets are in cash, on the belief that I will see the gold rally when it comes. Then I will buy precious metals equities -- for the leverage. Actually, the general equities markets are doing well right now, and I will probably maintain my investment there for as long as a month.

Impeachment proceeding against WJC could change everything, if the charges are serious enough. Things could be heating up. But WJC is a clever one, and he has powerful supporters.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:15
Gold Dancer (Tolerant1) ID#377196:
For a street kid pitching pennys you have stated the essence of

what is going to happen. When things change those that have are not

going to sell to those who don't. And in Mexico and Russia etc. it

only took a few days. And those who didn't were no longer stupid they

were broke and stupid!!

Thanks, GD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:12
tolerant1 (Jack...rhetoric aside...I really do not like to see anyone suffer...put on trial...yes...) ID#373284:
but I do have to admit in this country it would be fun to see certain people filling out all the paper work and on the work-fare lines uh huh!

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:11
DBog (Red) ID#267298:
Most Asian markets dropping like a rock.

Big day on the DOW tommorrow

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:10
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Chart) ID#93199:
Copyright © 1998 Schippi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fidelity Select Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Fidelity Select Energy & Energy Service Chart

Fidelity Select Computers, Electronics & Software Chart

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:09
tolerant1 (sam) ID#373284:
nice glass...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:06
JTF (Buying Oil stocks?) ID#57232:
Mike Stewart: Just saw your post. Can you tell me why you think oil has bottomed? There is much deflation worldwide, and the La Nina may not give us a cold winter this year -- at least not on the populated East Coast. My guess is that oil will not go up until most of the rolling currency devaluations have ended, and economic recovery begins. Eg, China, Japan, South Korea, etc. The Chinese Yuan has not yet been devalued.

I do admit that equities are often their lowest well before profit margins rise. But -- therin lies the rub -- one can be premature.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:06
Gold Dancer (JTF) ID#377196:
Copyright © 1998 Gold Dancer/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Very good observations. It really is difficult to know what will
happpen to gold stocks. But to me, we have already been in a deflationary
period for 18 years and now it is all the rage. It is the in thing
to talk about. To be concerned about. To worry about. To be

I keep it simple. The price is right so the events will change to
favor those investments. I don't have to be able to predict the changes
to make money. I just need the courage of my convictions and PATIENCE.

Thanks, GD

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:05
tolerant1 (JTF, Namaste' I simply cannot compare with you when it comes to numbers and) ID#373284:
wave research...statistics...historical data and such...but...for a street kid pitching pennies up against the curb I do offer up this thought.

In the US...for the past 15 years gold has been treated like a leper...

It still when things go south in the US I think gold will rise because people will wake up and want something to preserve their wealth...nobody here has any and those that do will NOT sell...

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:02
Jack (Tolerant1) ID#252127:

Not only Billy, but the endless group of blood suckers that support him.

The indebted countries calling a moratorium on debt and for possible later payment without interest would do wonders for the metals and put these b*stards out of commission. They can hold court to determine if they weren't hunkered into a trap.

I would enjoy the suffering, if I knew those b*stards were out of our hair -Permanently.

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:01
sam (tolerant1) ID#290287:
Well then, here's a giant gulp of vodka to you, as you can see!;- )

Date: Fri Jul 10 1998 00:00
Gloomy Gus (What's to smile about?) ID#428207:
Gold down, silver down. Platinum down, palladium down

Heatwave,floods even Vronsky is still talking up gold

Nothing changes here.

I gotta get me some more YAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!

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