KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:59
SDRer__A (JTF--AG on BIS board) ID#286249:
Yet remember US/AG did not take their seat until 1994! And working over
currency runs from that year, one is forced to realize how close to utter chaos we were on several occasions!

Certainly agree with your wise observation about Japan/US...some nasty
keyboard battles raging there, one thinks!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:59
Preacher (zeke & Russia) ID#227290:
zeke,
I'm curious to know why you think that this prophecy from Ezekiel 38 is talking about something that is yet to come. I mean, where is this coming from? I see the words, written a long time ago. Why do you think they apply to an event that will happen in our time?

The Preacher

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:58
EJ (Gianni Dioro: what if (I love this) the euro nations were the ones) ID#45173:
buying the gold from Asia, Russia, and other distressed nations to build a cumulative reserve greater than the USA gold reserve ( currently 25% of above-ground ) ? What if the euro, in addition to a net creditor nation backing were to compete as a reserve currency with more gold reserves than the USA against the debt-backed dollar?
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:57
JTF (Perhaps this is what the BIS fears) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer, all: I think I have this right: The Japanese have a liquidity crisis, so they are desperately doing whatever they can do to create Japanese yen. The only way they know they have succeeded is if the yen drops relative to the US dollar. The US is helping the Japanese. But -- that makes the US dollar stonger. And -- a stronger US dollar -- as we very well know will force a Chinese Yuan devaluation, as well as another SEAsia rout like last October. This time it could be worse. This is the only explanation I can come up with to explain why the BIS wants the US dollar weaker, and the Japanese Yen stronger. This would also explain the reference to possible SEAsian relapse.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:55
SDRer__A (Gianni Dioro--PMs up on Euro reserves?) ID#286249:
One wonders if the BIS comments re: USD adjustment down by 20-30% might not have caused some damp palms...



Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:51
EJ (SDRer: Who once said they'd not see their nation crucified upon a cross of gold?) ID#45173:
And what group of nations now have pledged they will be crucified no longer upon a cross of dollars? What else might unite these ancient enemies but the common enemy of the US dollar. They will be freed and the dollar will fall.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:50
crazytimes (Kitco Currency...) ID#342376:
Don't forget the picture of Bart.....

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:48
Gianni Dioro__A (Euro Announcement on Reserves) ID#384350:
...must be coming soon. Perhaps that is why PM futures surged strongly today, with a late rush at close.

BTW, Hats off to FIFA and the World Cup trophy which is made of solid Gold ( 24K? ) and is highly guarded, not like the Olympics which now hand out gold-plated medals. I offer my congratulations to Canada for winning the so-called Gold medal in Curling, but I wish they would just stick to the core sports and put the Gold back in the Gold Medal.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:46
JTF (The wheat from the Chaff!) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer: I agree. What we need to know is not said. The BIS, as the bankers bank, is normally not likely to say very much publically. Why should they? They do not exist for our benefit -- they exist as a resource for the world's Central Banks. When the BIS goes public in a big way -- something must be up. For some reason they do not fear an adverse response to their less than positive comments.

It is possible that some the world's central banks are not listening to the advice of the BIS, and the BIS - out of frustration, is appealing to any receptive audience that it can get. Could it be that the US and Japan are not cooperating? Interesting -- and a little frightening. And -- I thought that AG was a member of the BIS board of directors.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:43
SDRer__A (JTF--BIS and derivative nightmares) ID#286249:
It was they who commissioned the groundbreaking report from G-30 years
ago. BIS has been properly terrified of the derivative dragon for a
good long while!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:42
WindyLake (@Skip) ID#240266:
My gold stocks were down as well.Hard to figure given that gold
rallied so well;also the VSE was unaffected...I wonder if the feeling out
there is so bearish that rallies are simply not believed!Rather bullish I should think.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:42
EJ (fiveliter: thx for your help with the motto, I was stuck on that) ID#45173:
The new Kitcoholics gold currency is a work in progress, subject to improvement without notice. All suggestions welcome.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:40
SDRer__A (EJ--You (of course!) highlighted the operational problem!) ID#286249:
What are they going to do about it? In reply: one has the image of a BIG ROCK and a VERY HARD PLACE {:- ) Until Euro, they have very little--if ANY--wiggle room. Sometimes we can be quite happy that we are only foot
soldiers, yes? {:- )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:37
Dave (wetgold) ID#269207:
OH YEAH, it has came to my attention that you may submit precious metal to the U.S. treasurer, which he might not refuse. Then you might demand he pay your share of the national debt, and have the balance returned to you in U.S. treasury notes in payment therefore, said precious metal.

The value of the metal is set by the party submitting it to the treasurer, whereas the U.S. has no standard to go by.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:37
EJ (WetGold: until recently, it was illegal for US citizens to own gold) ID#45173:
Now that it doesn't matter we can. When again it does matter, we again cannot?
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:36
JTF (A little clarification - Re: BIS) ID#57232:
All: I think baseline for the BIS is a generally upbeat Annual/Quarterly report of the world's economic pulse. These reports are much less upbeat the ones I can remember in recent years. The Banks of the world listen to what the BIS has to say, and what is said behind the scenes is likely to be far less optimistic.

What I would like to know what the BIS really thinks of the runaway OTC derivatives trades, now in the hundred trillion dollar ( annual? ) range. Their real opinion is probably unprintable.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:35
zeke (Russia in the Med) ID#307271:
Copyright © 1998 zeke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Recently there has been Prophesy concerning the Med ( circa November 1998 ) . I will post these new Prophesies later. To date, only the following prophesies have been recorded and have been read by the entire world as a witness:



zeke: My Namesake--Ezekiel...38, etc.

Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog,the prince of Rosh ( Russia ) , Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,……

...In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely.

You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you....

And I will send fire on Magog ( Russia ) and on those who live in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.



Boris and Oris and all of us will be their. Eagles and Foxbats will have their day aloft: The Day of Reckoning: Yom Yaweh ! Forget Y2K, this will ecclipse everything. Coming to a theatre near you. Stay tuned.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:33
SDRer__A (Currency Wars--) ID#286249:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From Asia headline--June 9, 1998
Renewed speculative assault brings A$ near all-time low Unit breaks crucial 60 US cent level to 59.71/76; seen falling lower today

The US dollar's rise through 140 yen yesterday triggered the latest SELLING ASSAULT BY LARGE AND MOSTLY US FUNDS, THEY SAID.
http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/2/focus27.html

We are witnessing a 'new paradigm' kind of panic. It rumbles through currencies like a 8.0 quake. Forex chairs are once again headlining devaluation of the yuan. It is getting VERY nasty out there.

The yen--
Low relative to WHAT? Japan has to sell assets? Japan HAS assets-about 200bn of those STRONG dollars!
1983--Due to US high interest rate policy, THE JAPANESE YEN FALLS TO LOW LEVEL ( 240 YEN TO THE DOLLAR )

6pk@working.4.truth Thank you! You too {:- ) )

JTF@Sound.and.Sane ( in a MAD world ) The gloves are off, that seems
fairly apparent! Are you finding it as difficult as I, to weed this
garden? {:- )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:31
fiveliter (EJ) ID#341312:
Don't forget the motto which is of course:
INGOT WE TRVST
( I think using the v in place of the u adds a little class, don't you? ) ;- )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:27
EJ (SDRer: the dollar is overvalued by 30% relative to the Yen) ID#45173:
No doubt, but what are they gonna do about it?
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:26
JTF (Another post by the BIS: Asian Problems could get worse) ID#57232:
All: The BIS gloves are off. Perhaps they have decided that the inevitable is nearly upon us, an public statements such as these are necessary. Perhaps their fear of a rising US dollar overrides all other concerns.

http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/2/focus21.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:25
fiveliter (Drug War Doublespeak) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Did I miss something in the UN announcement or did they simultaneously say the war on drugs is actually worse than the drug abuse itself ( no duh! ) while raising the level of that very war by increasing drug money surveillance and confiscation? Orwell was right.
EJ-Thanks! Whenever silver drops like a rock I like to remember WB who studied the silver market for decades and decided 1997 was a good time to buy 130 million oz. Sure it's chump change to BH but still, it's ONE HUNDRED THIRTY MILLION OUNCES. PHYSICAL. Just before the digital currency system goes haywire due to the Asian Flu and Y2K double whammy. Smart man, that Warren Buffet. You can read all about him in my latest book: Warren Buffet-The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived.
( apologies to Norm Macdonald and SNL for a shameless ripoff )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:24
6pak () ID#335190:
SDRer: You do good work. Digging for golden nuggets of truth eh!
Take Care

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:23
WetGold (EJ @ 23:20 ,,,, although you joke ,,,,,, the most disturbing parts linger ,,,, it is ILLEGAL ) ID#187218:
for us to utilize gold for commerce even though we would all agree as to the nature of the exchange ,,,,,,,, only FRN can be used ,,,,,
,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:20
EJ (Let's issue our own gold-backed currency) ID#45173:
The obverse: a picture of Greenspan and President Hashimoto smiling cheek to cheek. The reverse: a balance scale with a US dollar sign fulcrum, a mountain of stock certificates on one side and a mountain of treasury notes on the other. The apparatus dangles from cables attached to a CNN microwave antenna.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:16
JTF (US$ 20% overvalued: The BIS is feeling its oats) ID#57232:
SDRer: Perhaps they have their own pro-gold spinmeisters. They have been forced to sit on the sidelines for years, while the US/IMF took control. I find it intriguing that after all of these years, the BIS is taking a public stance. Why now? Is it the fear that a strong US dollar will finish offwhat is left of the world's economy? Probably. That is something a Rothschild would fear, even if their future appears secure. Even Midas needed trading partners.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:12
Gianni Dioro__A (Tax Harmonisation in Euroland) ID#384350:
I smell something rotten in the State of Euroland.
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/headlines/980605/financial/897064440-0000034433.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:10
WetGold (Gianni_dioro__A) ID#187218:
Mostly $0.45 ( for 3 quarters: http://www.att.com/ir/divhistory.cgi

You speak of monopoly - it was not. They had competitors such as GTE, MCI, Sprint. I think it was Sprint ( or one of them ) that brought the law suit for to cause the divestiture of AT&T.

This is no different that todays MicroSoft with Gate's scant competition ,,,, they are now experiencing the same probable fate of the old AT&T and Western Electric ,,,,
,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:08
SDRer__A (BIS is NOT happy...) ID#286249:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Greenback overvalued vs mark, yen

US$ should be 21% lower against mark, 33% lower vs yen

[LONDON]
The US dollar is noticeably overvalued on a trade-weighted basis,
by 21 per cent against the Deutschemark and almost 33 per cent against the yen, the Bank for International Settlements said yesterday.

In its annual report, the BIS said the US dollar should be as low as
1.40 marks and 95 yen to be compatible with the US current account deficit. It was recently at 1.7749 marks and 140.33 yen.

The Basel, Switzerland-based BIS predicted the strong dollar and a
decline in US exports to Asia will cause the US current account
deficit to widen from US$166 billion ( S$284 billion ) last year.
http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/2/focus22.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:01
Gianni Dioro__A (@WetGold, AT&T) ID#384350:
AT&T was also a monopoly then. Can you please tell me what its dividend yield was in 1961?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 23:00
Midas__A (@oris - Gorbachev had the mark of USSR breakup on his forehead.) ID#340459:
good nite and Best of Luck..

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:56
Gianni Dioro__A (@midas, yer Gangster's, Drug Lords, and Pimps ) ID#384350:
...comment reminds me of a Billy Bragg recording I had of a song he played live in Russia. Before he played it, he said through a translator, This song is called, Help Save the Youth of America. It could have easily been called, Help Save the Youth of the Soviet Union.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:55
WetGold (FLASHBACK ,,, 1961 ,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
Just finished re-reading Graham's The Intelligent Investor after many years and found this interesting tid-bit ,,,,,,AT&T sold at 25 times it's earning in 1961 ( page 272 ) ,,,,, many of us compare this market to pre-1929 but markets are continually oversold and eventually the bubble bursts ,,,, it took until the early 1970's for this one to catch up on-em' ,,,,, the question on this one is when it pops and 'how-low-can-it-go' ,,,, moral: some things never change ,,,,,,
,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:55
oris (Midas, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle,) ID#238422:
like usual. I do not feel I will be successful in disputing
with you on this subject. But I agree that Gorbachev's policy
was a key to the collapse of the USSR. Is it good or bad?
I guess I would say 50/50...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:54
JTF (Gold fire sales - buy distressed gold mines) ID#57232:
The Hatt: This is the way I would hedge against the future fall of the US dollar if I were Japanese. If the gold is in the ground, it may be possible to get it for pennies on the dollar. Much cheaper than buying gold bullion, which you may not be able to afford in the quantities that you may need later.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:53
EJ (FDIC seems to be taking Y2K seriously) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Late last year, federal regulators ( FDIC ) took formal regulatory actions, including cease-and-desist orders, against a $209-million Georgia holding company and three of its subsidiary banks for not complying with the requirement that all financial institutions prepare their systems to deal
with Y2K.

Napelsnews

Banks struggle to address Year 2000 problem

Monday, June 8, 1998

By CLAY W. CONE, Staff Business Writer

When Jerry Williams addressed shareholders at a recent annual meeting, the chairman and chief executive of First Bancorp Inc. fielded the usual array of questions concerning the bank holding company's earnings and growth.

Williams also was hit with a few more contemporary inquiries. Some shareholders wanted to know what the parent company of Gulf Coast National Bank and First National Bank of the Florida Keys was doing to prepare for the year 2000, when massive computer glitches are predicted to occur worldwide.

It's a very hot topic, and for companies that are not out in front of this issue it may be too late, he said. The year 2000 is almost here.

The Year 2000, also known as Y2K, problem could result in lost transaction records, customers not being able to access their funds and miscalculated interest. But while the financial industry is especially vulnerable, the problem could affect any business that relies on a mainframe computer.

The reason is simple. When the original computer programs were designed in the 1960s and 1970s, storage space was costly and at a premium. In an effort to minimize costs, code writers simply omitted the first two numbers of a date. That means 1998, for example, would read as 98, 1999 as 99, and so on.

The year 2000 would be read as 00. Since the systems are coded to assume that all years begin with 19, computers will interpret 00 to mean 1900, and stored information could be incorrect or even lost if changes are not made.

The Y2K issue is nothing new, of course. Bankers have been aware of the problem for some time. But with the year 2000 less than 18 months away, bankers and industry regulators have an increased sense of urgency.

Where this was just a no-name issue a year ago, all of a sudden it's on the front burner at most banks, said Kenneth H. Thomas, a Miami-based independent bank analyst and a lecturer in finance at The Wharton School.

A number of key deadlines have been set for banks to address the Y2K problem. The milestones were established by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. ( FDIC ) , the agency charged with insuring the deposits of the nation's banks.

According to a recently announced FDIC mandate, all federally-chartered banks will have until June 30 to draft detailed plans showing how they will resolve the problem. Institutions must then initiate testing of their internal systems by Sept. 1, with substantial completion to be shown by Dec. 1.

It is further mandated that testing of all hardware and software systems be complete and that implementation be substantially complete in June 1999.

The FDIC has warned that failure to appropriately address Y2K problems may result in supervisory actions, including formal and informal enforcement actions, civil penalties, denials of applications relating to bank acquisitions and branch expansions, and reductions in a bank's composite rating.

Late last year, federal regulators took formal regulatory actions, including cease-and-desist orders, against a $209-million Georgia holding company and three of its subsidiary banks for not complying with the requirement that all financial institutions prepare their systems to deal
with Y2K.

The millennium bug is a double-edged sword for bankers.

First, they must identify and correct any Y2K problems within their own internal systems, including data processing and electronic systems.

Bankers also must work with their customers, especially their large commercial customers, to ensure that they will be Y2K compliant as well.

The estimates for the cost to address financial institution Y2K problems worldwide are significant. Banking giant Citicorp estimates that it will spend $600 million on the Y2K problem. Two other large banks, Bank of America and Chase Manhattan, each anticipate spending around $300 million.

Other financial institutions are less definitive about the costs of the Y2K problem. But they have been moving aggressively to address the issue.

F.N.B. Corp., for example, established a Y2K Compliancy Committee that has been working on the issue since July 1996. The organization includes representatives of each of the company's banking affiliates in Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio and New York. So far, the group has met all the deadlines.

There is no more important regulatory issue facing the banking industry today than the Year 2000 problem, said Edward Sehon, spokesman for F.N.B. Corp. We're taking all the steps necessary to come into full compliance.

But an FDIC report issued last week indicated that a number of banks still aren't doing enough. The report showed that more than one out of every 10 financial institutions needed improvement in their efforts to address the Y2K problem. The agency further noted that 43 institutions, or almost 1 percent of all FDIC-regulated institutions, were found to be
unsatisfactory.

The report was released following the completion of at least one on-site review at each of the 6,034 financial institutions regulated by the FDIC.

We completed these assessments one month ahead of schedule, said Nicholas J. Ketcha Jr., director of the FDIC's Division of Supervision in Washington, D.C. We consider Year 2000-associated risks to be the number one safety-and soundness concern for the banking industry.

The Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council is developing a brochure that will further detail the efforts being made to address the Y2K computer problem. The booklet is expected to be released later this month.

Fortunately for Williams, both Gulf Coast National Bank and First National Bank of the Florida Keys have contracted their data processing services to an outside firm which is proceeding to resolve the Y2K problem. Bank employees began implementing the changes and checking systems about a year ago.

It's a big deal to us and we're staying on top of it, he said.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:50
JTF (Why don't the Japanese buy gold? A: They must sell hard assets, not buy them) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
swp1, JP, Gollum: I think the Japanese would buy gold if they could, but they did not when they had the chance, because the US leaders convinced them not to. I have no solid proof for this, but those same US leaders definitely discouraged the Taiwanese from doing same.

Why does the Japanese Government not buy gold right now? The answer is straightforward -- they are up to their eyeballs in debt and they know it. It is not clear to me how much of the $11 trillion ( US$? ) funds saved by the industrious Japanese has been squandered by their leaders. Almost certainly more than 50%. Must be a bitter pill for the average Japanese to swallow -- that all of that hard earned money is gone -- due to the stupidity of their own government. So -- they must sell hard assets, not buy them.

I think the reason for President Hashimoto's stinging comments last year is in relation to the Japanese bitterness in realizing that they bought too many dollars, and not enough long-term hard assets such as gold. The Japanese have a traditional knack for copying new American technology, making it even better, and selling a better engineeered project back to us. This time they copied our 'fiat' currency, and did an even better job than we did at creating a financial bubble in the real estate and equities markets.

I think it is far more likely that the Japanese leaders will have to swallow their pride, and try to appropriate the relatively small amount of gold that Japanses people have saved. I would expect the Japanese will sell all of their US dollar-based equities over the next few years, as they must know that the days of the US dollar are numbered, and they desperately need the cash.

Once the Japanese economy is again on a strong footing, then they will start buying gold in quantity. I'm sure they have learned their lesson, along with SEAsia. But it will take years for them to dig themselves out fo the hole they are in. It will be interesting to see whether the Yuan devaluation is the last straw -- no facts yet, just rumors.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:50
Skip (Why didn't gold stock go up with gold?) ID#287129:
Even though there was nice upward movement with gold today ( and all PM's ) , my portfolio of gold stocks lost money...and I'm perplexed.

Can anyone provide a logical reason?

--Skip

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:50
The Hatt (Japanese Are Investing In Gold!) ID#294232:
While we wait for the Japanese to sell U.S. treasuries and buy gold things are happening behind the scenes right here in Vancouver Canada. Claimstaker Resources has just signed a deal with a company called Jipangu where they are putting up $2,000,000.00 to purchase 35% of the Blackdome Mine. Is this the start or just a casual investment? The Japanese are known for their business acumen and it appears that in this case that they are positioning themselves for a run in gold prices. Time will tell!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:48
Midas__A (@oris - Yeltsin nailing USA, are you kidding ? Dont take all the tough talk that media reports and ) ID#340459:
Copyright © 1998 Midas__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Saddam is always a side act performed now and then, whenever US politics needs it.

Boris Yeltsin is still there because of backing from US inspite of all his ill health and financial degeneration of that country, Believe me, if he goes against USA, he will not survive a week. All the tough talk is to give the non-US aligned block of Arabs a sense of false protection, In a crunch he will be first to lead them to abbatoir for slaughter and would never go against IMF/USA. All the tough talk is to fool the locals who still have dreams of grandeur for mother Russia, you catch the drift..

Gorbachev and Yeltsin have worked to change that country from a Super Power to a country controlled by Gangster's, Drug Lord's and Pimps.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:47
oris (EJ) ID#238422:
I know all about it.Remember,
I was born and raised in Moscow...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:45
oris (Midas, your 22:24) ID#238422:
May be this soldier applied for a change of sex
because his platoon wanted to straighten things out?


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:44
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Charts) ID#93199:
Copyright © 1998 Schippi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

Fidelity Select Energy & Energy Service Chart
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/enens70.htm

Fidelity Select Computers, Electronics & Software Chart
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/ces70.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:42
Gollum (g'night) ID#43352:
Gotta get up early to look at the charts. See ya dudes latah

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:41
EJ (psssst! Hey, oris. Got a newsreader? Check out alt.binaries.nospam.teenfem) ID#45173:
Look for:

And finally, some beautifull Russian girls! rusian22.jpg ( 1/1 ) 34663 bytes

Might go well with B&W Smirnoff, too.

-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:39
oris (zeke) ID#238422:
Yes, of course.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:38
Gollum (@Dave) ID#43352:
Maybe, they're planning something.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:38
Mole (gold/silver coin) ID#34883:
@aurator=exchange rates= Yes I think that gold and silver coin exchange rates would have to be floating.

Is it still possible to get Gram Parson's music?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:36
oris (Midas, read he performance as his performance..) ID#238422:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:35
EJ (fiveliter: I'm just a patriotic American doing my part says WB) ID#45173:
I recall the May 31 post well. An inspired piece. WB's PR dudes maintain that at 3% of capital, silver was a minor investment. I believe Gollum's position that WB bought silver not gold because gold is speculative. Still, if I were WB looking to hedge my paper with precious metals, I'd stay away from the politically sensitive yellow stuff and go for the next best thing.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:33
Dave (Gollum) ID#269207:
Do you think they are holding a meeting with 180 countries present and 30 heads of states all about drugs, money laundering and excetera from the 8th though the 10th of june just for the freebees?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:33
zeke (Thanks Oris) ID#307271:
I have good friends in Damascus. I will wait patiently in my Eagle at Angels 60. We will watch together this incursion that the world has awaited since the dawn of time, yes?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:32
oris (Midas) ID#238422:
Uncle Boris delivering good performance for the U.S....

You are correct, he just nailed Uncle Bill in Iraq,
and just about ready to liberate the U.S. from
several billions for solving little domestic problems...
inside Kremlin.

Nice performance for the U.S., right? or you mean
he performance is good because he is not ordering to
nuke the U.S.? What do you mean?





Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:31
Midas__A (@Blooper, Why should Canadian Tax Payer bear expenses of soldier's that want to turn into women ?) ID#340459:
Why the hell is everyone lying low and taking this outrageous demands

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:30
Gollum (got iceberg detectors?) ID#43352:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Full story
Cunard Line plans ``grandest, largest'' liner
09:52 a.m. Jun 08, 1998 Eastern

OSLO, Norway ( Reuters ) - Cruise company Cunard Line Ltd. unveiled plans
Monday to build a giant new superliner, Project Queen Mary, that would ``invoke
the spirit of a bygone era of seagoing luxury.''

Cunard Line President Larry Pimentel said the project would lead to the
development of ``the grandest and largest liner ever built -- the epitome of elegance,
style and grace.''

``It is our objective to build a new generation of ocean liner that will be the very
pinnacle of the shipbuilder's art,'' he said in a statement.

``Our goal is nothing less than to create a new golden age of sea travel for those
who missed the first,'' Pimentel said.

Details of the size, guest capacity and deployment are still under planning, but the
company said the concept would develop ``into the next evolution of a true ocean
liner'' and not be a substitute for Cunard's top liner, the Queen Elizabeth 2.

Miami-based Carnival Corp. bought Cunard from Kvaerner ASA in April for $500
million and merged it with the Seabourn Cruise Line. Carnival said Kvaerner's
Finnish Masa Yards shipyard was involved in planning.

Pimentel said the acquisition and merger would lead to stability and growth.
``Stability of management and cost containment are high-priority goals of our new
organization,'' he said.

Cunard Line operates two cruise brands, Cunard and Seabourn.

The fleet includes three Seabourn vessels -- the Pride, Spirit and Legend -- and five
Cunard ships -- Queen Elizabeth 2, Vistafjord, Royal Viking Sun and the Sea
Goddess I and II -- and commands almost 50 percent of the luxury cruise market
worldwide.

Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication and
redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written
consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the
content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:27
Dave (gollum) ID#269207:
YEAH, well I think something's up with them boy's, they figure there is 400 billion a year floating around in drug money and whether there is or isn't, they are going to figure out how to pull that money out of someones asse, and if they want to fight it, they ( UN ) has TWO New world courts you can go to, for justice right.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:26
oris (zeke/Statement from the Kremlin) ID#238422:
Our Med policy is directed towards Cyprus.
We think it's a nice place to relax, do some
banking and eat some good food...We like it...
In regard to Syrian brothers - we feel they
need more dollars to talk to us...



Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:24
Midas__A (@Blooper, In today's news. Canadian Army is considering a request by a Soldier for his application) ID#340459:
to undergo a sex change operation ( from male to female ) at ARMY'S EXPENSE
reported in CBC TV News
Do you see where all this is leading to...This crap really depresses all the family oriented individuals..

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:23
EJ (Y2K hits the bottom line, causes layoffs at Diebold) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sunday June 7 7:36 AM EDT

Diebold to slash work force

CLEVELAND ( Reuters ) - Diebold Inc., the leading U.S. maker of automated teller machines, on Friday said it would cut about 8.5 percent of its work force and may take a charge against earnings for the company's realignment.

The North Canton, Ohio-based company said it would eliminate 500 to 600 jobs out of a total work force of 6,700.

Diebold said its business was suffering because of the banking industry's recent consolidation wave and a focus by its customers on so-called Year 2000 computer problems -- possible glitches in older systems reading dates after the turn of the century.

The company said those two issues were diverting bank resources that might have gone toward deploying more ATMs.

John Kristoff, a spokesman for Diebold, said the company was not ruling out further job cuts. It depends on how our business grows the rest of the year, he said in response to a question about additional job cuts.

Analysts have said the banking industry's consolidation eventually will benefit the company as the large institutions start focusing on building market share, leading them to install more ATMs to attract customers. But few believe the company's difficulties will end any time soon.

On May 27, Diebold said it expected second-quarter earnings to fall short of its profit of 44 cents a share in same period a year earlier.

Analysts now see the company earning $0.37 to $0.40 a share in the current quarter, compared with earlier estimates of $0.49 to $0.50, according to First Call, a firm that tracks such forecasts.

After Diebold's profit announcement last month, its stock shed more than $8. On Friday, it finished 62.5 cents lower at $25.375 cents on the New York Stock Exchange, after touching a fresh 52-week low of $25.31 earlier in the session.

The Diebold spokesman said he could not estimate the size of any charges related to the layoffs, or say when such charges might be taken.

Richard Sporrer, an analyst with Parker/Hunter Inc, said Diebold could take a charge as early as the second quarter, although it was difficult to estimate the size without knowing the structure of the severance packages.

He said the layoffs were not a surprise given the company's previous announcement. In addition to the earning announcement, Diebold said last month that it was re-evaluating its business plans and cost structure in a move that could result in a restructuring charge.

Diebold also supplies card-based transaction systems for libraries and the health-care industry, among other businesses.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:23
blooper (Gollum,) ID#207145:
They wouldn't agree to delete the sodomy or the gonoreah!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:22
oris (EJ) ID#238422:
You are welcome. Glad you liked it.
I guess your friends just need some time
to develop some taste, they will...
Watch them next time.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:20
Gollum (@blooper) ID#43352:
They weren't able to get an X rating for Sodom and Gomorah so
they cancelled it

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:20
blooper (Gollum,) ID#207145:
The U.N., like the congress, is at its best when ineffective.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:19
fiveliter (EJ) ID#341312:
Copyright © 1998 fiveliter/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Regarding the recent spate of mega-mergers, yep, that about sums it up! Did you see the news article where they interviewed some Chrysler bigwig about the $100 million he personally profited from the Daimler merger and he stated that the $100 million had no bearing on his decision. I don't mind so much these guys earning 100 lifetimes of pay for signing their names to a piece of paper ( who wouldn't? ) but then they just flat out LIE and the reporters do nothing. Also, you might enjoy one of my posts from May 31 @ 22:30 about the Marshall Plan and a fictitious news interview from the future ( is there any other kind? ) .

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:18
Gollum (@Dave) ID#43352:
And for years the UN was just a lazy good for nothin just layin
around the house. Now maybe it's gonna grow up and get a job.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:17
blooper (Hollywood,) ID#207145:
Sex, Violence, really bad language, Gay Agendas, what a wonderful place. What happened to Sodom and Gamorrah?It's not for me to judge, and I guess Jews and Gentiles do anything for money, huh.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:15
EJ (NIKKEI back from the brink in early trading) ID#45173:
Within 1.9% of under 15000 meltdown at close yesterday, now up 164 to 15458.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:11
EJ (ERLE: Titanic and Class warfare movies) ID#45173:
The honorable poor die and the sleezy rich live. Who said Hollywood script writers are slack on realism.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:10
Dave (tolerant1) ID#269207:
Maybe the UN doesn't need a Navy, maybe what's going on is that anybody with a gunboat, that's member nation can inspect anything of an international commodity, claiming UN authorization, and the same goes for monitoring the internet and other communications, of course they are just looking for money laundering and other illegal activities.

The UN is promising to publish the treaties on the internet or give everyone acces soon, so maybe then we'll know what's what.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:10
zeke (Oris: Foxbats in the Med) ID#307271:
November 1998. Foxbats in the Med?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:08
Gollum (bedfellows.strange) ID#43352:
Gee, wasn't too many years ago these guys didn't get along:

RUSSIA AND GERMANY:

Russian President Boris Yeltsin and his ministers are in Germany to get help on
their financial problems. Yeltsin's talks with Chancellor Helmut Kohl were
expected to focus on international credit for Russia following the collapse of
Russia's financial markets.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:07
EJ (Gollum: it's year 7000 something by the Chinese lunar calendar) ID#45173:
I forget how to calculate it. Last year, the new year was Jan 27 by our calendar. It'll be different this year but I don't know what it is.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:06
Gianni Dioro__A (rob, UK tax law) ID#384350:
-
This was the first I heard of any action being taken. Tony Blair had a manifesto in his election plank. Part of it was to attack the wealthy foreigners who live in England. I don't know if new legislation affects your mother or not. She should talk to her advisor.

As to the Rolling Stones, it appears that the law has been changed where before, they used to be able to perform concerts in the UK and wouldn't have to pay tax on revenue from these concerts as long as they spent less than 2 months of the year in the UK.

It looks like politicians are getting ever more desperate, and realise that unless they feed their Usururious Master ( CB ) with tax receipts, they will lose their cushy jobs with all its perks: cars, luxury accomodation, servants, holidays, caviar, champagne, call-girls etc.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:05
blooper (Ted Fonda,) ID#207145:
Ted Fonda had his stadium namedTurner Field. Wow, what an original name. He said he wouldn't pay 2.50 for a Coke! I live 30 miles from Turner Field, and I wouldn,t give 2.50 for Ted and Jane, even if you threw in Saddam Arnette. Viva Lithium Carbonate. Oh yes and could we have Lucia Newman report on Infidel Castrol just one more time.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 22:02
ERLE (CB gold sales) ID#190411:
-
A while back I bought some Swiss and French 20 FR coins.
Were these from private holdings or CB dumpings?
The 20 FR French roosters are handsome coins. There are French 20 FR coins available from the previous series ( 1849-18 ) , at the same prices.
Does anyone know who, or what owned these, before they came on the US market?
BTW, I read something about the abysmal class warfare-movie, Titanic, that they were so fastidious about preiod detail, that the money proffered by one of the characters, was the rooster series.
Imagine,- sell souvenir 1912 20 Franc Gold coins to the Yuppies. Mark them to 300.00 each. ( .1867 Oz/coin ) . Not Beanie Babies, but more durable.
Teddo was right, ABX is a dog...arf arf, go chase TVX.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:59
Prometheus (@Oops, getting tired.) ID#210235:
hundred = hundreds

goodnight, all.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:59
Midas__A (Charlie didnt get the big seat and a lot of crap from media for his belief's ) ID#340459:
Duke of Windsor also had to abdicate for reasons beyond Wallis Simpson

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:58
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43352:
Sometimes it isn't a conspiracy...it's just the system.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:57
clone (I'm suprised this has not been mentioned yet - AP wire news) ID#267344:
-
Filed at 8:21 p.m. EDT

By The Associated Press

WASHINGTON ( AP ) -- In the earliest evidence linking President Clinton to a foreign donation, investigators have unearthed a 1992 memo indicating James Riady took a coveted private car ride with Clinton just before the Indonesian banker began writing checks that totaled half a million dollars.

Riady ``will be giving $100,000 to this event and has the potential to give much more,'' Clinton was told in a memo Aug. 14, 1992, that advised he would share a car ride that day with the Indonesian billionaire after a fund-raiser. Clinton was then the Democratic presidential nominee. The memo, obtained by The Associated Press, was written by Melinda Yee, the Democratic Party's outreach director for Asian Americans. It said Riady, whose family controls the Lippo banking and industrial empire, wanted to talk to Clinton ``about banking issues and international business'' and the car ride was ``a courtesy call.''

Clinton's schedule for that day says Riady greeted Clinton at the door of an Arkansas restaurant where the two attended a Democratic fund-raiser and then took a five-minute car ride. In political circles, the one-on-one access of a car ride, no matter how brief, is a plum privilege.

The memo, schedule and checks were brought to the attention of the Justice Department months ago by congressional investigators. Attorney General Janet Reno has resisted naming an independent counsel to investigate fund raising although the chief of her campaign fund-raising task force and FBI director Louis Freeh have urged such an appointment. The chief of the task force, Charles LaBella, is writing a report and will make a final recommendation.

Federal law forbids U.S. candidates and parties from accepting foreign money. The law allows foreigners who are legally and permanently residing in the United States to make donations. U.S. subsidiaries of foreign companies can only donate if they use funds generated inside the United States.

The memo to Clinton clearly noted that Riady had moved from the United States. ``He has flown all the way from Indonesia, where he is now based, to attend the fund-raiser,'' it said. And some of the donations were written from Lippo Bank in California on what appear to be starter or counter checks lacking the normal numbering of a personal checkbook.

The bank statements reviewed by investigators show Riady continued to infuse his account with a string of $9,000 credits. The last donation is recorded in campaign records on Oct. 27, 1992. Three days later, Riady's bank statements suggest his account was replenished with $330,000 from Jakarta, the sources said.

Two weeks later, the couple contributed $200,000 to Clinton's inaugural fund.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:56
Gollum (question) ID#43352:
When it is Y2K on the western calander, what will it be on the
Chinese one?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:54
EJ (Gollum: If these dark conspiracy theories come to pass) ID#45173:
then I'll be out of my physical. No way the CBs would undertake such a scheme with the intention of allowing yer average city-zen to participate in the winnings.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:52
Prometheus (@Rob) ID#210235:
I've heard of these greek fellows you mentioned, but then again, I've read about ugly Charlie's work, and it's solid.

The gene pool on our cultivated plants is shrinking at an astonishing rate. Anyone who helps to keep it out of one company's hands is on my side of that particular fence.

Did you know that only a hundred years ago, there were hundred of apple cultivars grown?


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:52
6pak (Prometheus @ 21:36) ID#335190:
he is one ugly guy who is honest and smart I like those statements, an outstanding compliment to this man. Yes, there are responsible people in our world, few of his status, but none the less, good people do exist.
Take Care.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:50
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43352:
And not just announce you are going to sell gold but also extremely
low lease rates for anyone who wants to get involved with shorting gold

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:49
EJ (oris: your advice on B&W Smirnoff was critical) ID#45173:
I liked it with the buttered fresh bread and caviar. Sadly, my friends were less appreciative. They reverted to beer. Maybe because I missed the pickles? Whatever. Thanks for tip on the vodka. Better than Stoli.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:46
Rob (Prometheus 2136) ID#410114:

Beware of Greeks




Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:36
Prometheus ( @Rob ) ID#210235:
That is your mantra, yes?

As for Charley, he is one ugly guy who is honest and smart, and actually using his land for the
benefit of mankind. This is almost too good to be true, yet it is. I don't look a gift horse in the
mouth when it presents itself.

Y

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:45
Gianni Dioro__A (@Aurophile, UK changes laws) ID#384350:
Your friend must be forward thinking. The Rolling Stones have cancelled UK tour dates supposedly due to new tax changes for UK nationals who rarely spend any time in Britain. Who's Next?
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/headlines/980608/news/897304825-6.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:43
Midas__A (@EJ, Yes Sir.. USA benefitted a lot from WWII, inspite of all the media propoganda to the contrary) ID#340459:
How did the Allies amass such incredibly expensive War machine soon after
the great depression of the 30's, The War financing is very murky indeed,
Yes Sir, many facts are not known therein....

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:40
Prometheus (@Hey!) ID#210235:
I never had a message truncated before:

My last heading was Rob, who does not do his homework.

Without that, my post makes no sense. Sorry.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:38
Prometheus (@Sorry, John N. ) ID#210235:
I was posting on Kitco when you stopped by the Kitco Bar & Grill. Sam is away.

Fine host I turned out to be!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:38
Midas__A (Maybe Russia is selling Gold right now as they are totally broke.) ID#340459:
Yeltsin is surviving all this due to his good work performance for USA.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:36
Prometheus (@Rob ) ID#210235:
That is your mantra, yes?

I appreciate that one guy with a big estate in Great Britain has decided to dedicate a large part of it to preserving the old ways of fertilizing, and the variety of the genepool.

As for Charley, he is one ugly guy who is honest and smart, and actually using his land for the benefit of mankind. This is almost too good to be true, yet it is. I don't look a gift horse in the mouth when it presents itself.

You should go read up on economic history, and come back next year.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:36
EJ (Midas: it all started with the Marshall plan) ID#45173:
Such a beneficent plan... A system to allow nations to become markets for the only significant industrial power standing after WWII.
-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:36
Midas__A (@Rob, The Rolling Stones cancelled all their UK concerts as it would lead to losses in millions of ) ID#340459:
pounds due to new tax laws in UK.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:33
Midas__A (Kissinger & Nixon admin authorized lethal nerve gas (Sarin) to be dropped on US Army defectors who ) ID#340459:
had joined the enemy in Vietnam war, Pentagon will deny it, but this CNN program had interviews with numerous ex- army personnel that executed operation Tail Wind and they attested to this deplorable fact that nerve agents were used and it was cleared by the State.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:33
Rob (UK taxes) ID#410114:
Hello G:

My mother is a non-domiciled resident of the UK and there has been a change of tax policy. I don't know specifically what the change is.



Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:32
EJ (Gollum: yer on a roll tonight!) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1 ) Your equities dealer can't pay you back until he gets your money back from the guy he bought the equities from. And if the guy he bought them from won't pay him cause he doesn't have any money, your dealer can't pay you back, at least not in cash. But he can still pay you, by law, with... other equities! So you can sell your crashing mutual fund and your dealer can pay you back with crashing IBM stock! Such a deal!

2 ) How'd you like to be a CEO and see your buddies getting rich buying other companies with their inflated stock and you're not in the game. You gotta get in! Before your equity values deflate and the game is over. Really soon!

3 ) CB's announce they're selling gold... but never seem to get around to actually doing it. But Asia, Russia, and others in distress do sell to cover short term obligations at the low gold prices you've created with your announced intentions to sell gold, intentions that you never fulfill. Who's buying the gold that the distressed price? Geez. I wonder.

-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:32
Prometheus (@Hi 6pak) ID#210235:
Thanks for the many kind words. You are read, if not often responded to. What's to argue about?

Promey

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:32
6pak (Rob @ 21:04 ) ID#335190:
Royal Intellect Also an intellect of GOD, he becomes the leader of the Church of England.
Take Care.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:28
Prometheus (@Tol1) ID#210235:
You red meat eater? Hee hee. Me, too. Isn't it a pisser having cholesteral levels that skim the bottom of normal range and eating eggs, cheese, and good old red meat every day?

Love that low cholesterol diet! Still the same weight I was at 21. Yessir!

Why do you suppose the American medical establishment refuses to recognize decades of British and European research on the subject?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:27
vronsky (MONEY FOR NOTHING… A MODEL FOR ECONOMIC COLLAPSE) ID#426220:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

In 1989 Japan was experiencing an 8% growth rate and low
inflation - while the Nikkei and real estate values were soaring to
untenable record levels.

Unfortunately, Japan has failed to comprehend the financial dynamics of its economy. Consequently, the Land of the Rising Sun will soon see the collapse of its banks, its insurance companies and, ultimately, default on its sovereign debt, followed by the Yen tanking.

That the richest people on earth should sustain such a
destruction of wealth during a time of great technological
advancement and world growth is truly ironic and paradoxical.

I have studied in numerous universities around the
world - and I always thought Economists were literally and totally full of crap, because I rarely understood their rantings. In sharp contrast I follow and comprehend KUTYNN'S every line, every thought ... his analysis oozes and exudes logic and clarity. Bravo, Bravo my Mr Kutyn -- and again many thx for sharing your wisdom and work with us at the following URL - as usual you need to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting it to the Internet locator:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/asian_corner_98/kutyn060998.html


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:25
Gollum (@pyramid) ID#43352:
There's going to be a lot of baby boomers trying to trade certificates
for a sack of potatoes...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:24
Midas__A (@SWP1 - Right since USA dropped nuclear bombs on Japan, The successive japanese govt(s) have been ) ID#340459:
listening to US policy in right earnest. USA exerts all kinds of pleasant and not so pleasant influence on many countries to ensure compliance of their policy and US interests, even countries of western europe cannot go beyond a certain limit when it comes to US interests, inspite of all the B/S that you hear about civil liberties, democracy etc, ask Oil Baron's like King Fahd in Saudi Arabia or many national leaders serve USA and not their citizens. US also controls UN policies, sanctions et al.

The only country priviliged to say f.o. to USA is Israel.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:20
6pak (Silverbaron @ 20:40 Unemployment Numbers) ID#335190:
Figures can lie, and liar's can figure.

I doubt that the cooking of numbers help elected representative's, unless, their election was financed by Corporation's, obviously, corporation's want a calm to prevail. Business taking care of business, What is good for the corporation, is good for the citizen. Big brother knows best.
Take Care.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:20
pyramid (Securities / Money / Cash) ID#217268:
Copyright © 1998 pyramid/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Let us all not forget that 401k and mutual fund money, held in street name ( most is ) , is NOT INSURED and subject to REDEMPTION-IN-KIND. In stressful times, you might get different securities that what you thought you owned - unless you have physical possession of the stock certificate. Physical possession of stock certificates is not possible under a 401k umbrella.

The more conservative investor may keep his money in an FDIC insured bank. Savings are insured to 100k per account. Banks can take gov't-encouraged holidays and accounts can be frozen or redemptions can be mandated to be orderly ( $200 per day per account ) .

Do we honestly think there is MONEY in the banks There is no money in banks .... only an electronic journal entry with some cash to meet normal business needs. Fractional banking has insured there is only 10% of total account fund MONEY available and probably 1% is available as CASH. Then again, without electricity, we are all worth zero anyhow, so why worry.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:14
Gollum (@Midas__A) ID#43352:
Yup. They sure as hell can't cash the stuff in. Might as well
trade it for somthin

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:13
zeke (oris) ID#307271:
Any chance Russia will push into the Med before Christmas. The Syrian friends are probably beckoning, Yes?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:12
Gollum (good intro) ID#43352:
http://www.the-privateer.com/front.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:08
Midas__A (@Gollum, Yes Sir, I agree..) ID#340459:
Also, kindly note that all the euphoria in Wall Steet on purchase/mergers that being hyped as exceptionally stellar financial miracles has not been taking place with any money, just exchange of their stocks.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:04
Rob (Intellects) ID#410114:
The only thing worse than a Hollywood intellect is a Royal intellect.



6pak ( belong to God and to God alone @ it is time our Creator had some rights, too. )
ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Prince Charles heats up debate over genetically altered crops

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 21:03
6pak (Gollum @ 20:55) ID#335190:
Economic Reality, is that simple eh! Before the music stops. Buy food, buy gold, have value.
Take Care.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:59
Ron (in sack-o-tomatoes) ID#413195:
Sam: If you're trying to find out if Bohl has any actions pending against him, you can contact either the

CFTC ( http://www.cftc.gov/cftc/ ) , a govt regulatory agency, or the NFA ( http://www.nfa.futures.org/menu.html ) .

Always a good idea to check with them before going with a new broker . . . saved me from choosing the wrong broker

when I first started.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:58
Gollum (@SWP1) ID#43352:
They could have, but it would be silly to conceal it. Part of the problem
is the confidnce factor. If you want to restore confidence in your
currency by buying gold I don't think you would want to keep it a
secret......unless you weren't done yet.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:55
Gollum (@Midas_A) ID#43352:
Er,uh,Mr. Midas sir, I think you said:
It might surprise a lot of us to know that now there is more money in mutual funds (
$ 20 Trillion ) THAN MONEY PLACED AS BANK DEPOSITS.
But sir, there is no money in the funds. Only equities. The money was
given to the nice man who gave you the equities. You have no money
until the nice man buys the equities back.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:51
Bill Buckler ($A Gold breaks out again) ID#256381:
Copyright © 1998 Bill Buckler/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
With the $A below the US 60 cent level, and spot month Gold

up nearly $US 5 ( $291.20 to $296 ) on June 8, the $A Gold price

has taken off. It is approaching the $A 500 level.

This has broken the $A Gold price out of a six week trading

range ( on the P&F chart ) and established a very pretty new

uptrend line.

In fact, if you want to take a look at a GORGEOUS Gold chart,

check out the $A chart at The Privateer website.

In Europe later today there is the G-7 emergency Finance

Ministers' meeting in Paris AND the inaugural European Central

Bank ( ECB ) meeting. The ECB meeting is the one where

there is high expectation that a Reserve Ratio for Gold as

backing of the Euro will be announced. We'll have to wait

and see on that one.

Back to $A Gold. It was the breakout of the trading range

on this chart back in late March that signalled the $US Gold

move above $US 300 and to its recent $US 314 ( spot month close )

high. Here's another signal from the $A Gold price. The

$A price has signalled every major Gold upmove for the past 12

years - including 1985-1986 and 1993.

There's no buy signal on the $US P&F Gold chart yet, but

the $A Gold chart has certainly given a signal.

Updates on the $A - $US Gold comparison page, and updates

on Gold charts in $A - $US - Yen - and DMarks are posted

at The Privateer website.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:50
SWP1 (@ All: Some one please tell me ... for real..) ID#233199:

Why DONT the Japanese buy gold? Is there anyway some of the CB sales have gone to Japan? Would we know?

Real answers please.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:48
Gollum (@Silverbaron) ID#43352:
But our government is good and kind and honest and trustworthy and
working only for the people.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:46
Midas__A (@Dirt, I hope Hashimoto takes your advice, They are hoping that US Paper is going to bail them out) ID#340459:
Copyright © 1998 Midas__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The reason for low inflation in US is because most consumer items like clothing, electronics that we find in Wal Mart and other retailers are manufactured outside of US and strong US dollar has made imports cheap, while the same exporters in 3rd World countries are in state of very high inflation due to the rapidly deterioting value of their own currencies and the Rich of these economies are moving their money into Dollars and transfering it to USA, further increasing the value of US Dollar denominated paper assets.

It might surprise a lot of us to know that now there is more money in mutual funds ( $ 20 Trillion ) THAN MONEY PLACED AS BANK DEPOSITS. It seems that everybody either through 401K or direct placements have put their money on the line in RISKY investments based on recent dramatic rise of markets.

Due to lack of competition to US Dollar, American Economy is getting fat by sucking resources from all over the globe by financial manipulations conducted by minions like Soros and subsequently Nation ( s ) collateral seized through IMF/World Bank lending that is bankrolled ultimately by US Tax payer.

Mistakes and shenanigans by Big Banks are bailed out by Govt by the sweat of honest workers, who pay for the mis demeanours of these fat cats.

Hans Titenmeyer of Bundesbank mentioned today that Yen is unduly weak and that there is underlying strength in japanese economy. they have put most of their savings and eggs in Fed basket and they are dreaming if they think that they can pull money out of USA easily, Uncle Sam will not let that happen.

I hope that Gold shorts who have been laughing at goldbugs for 18 years now finally, get their balls caught in a vise, with a excurciating short squeeze that would also stop this gold whoring business by CB's who have been aiding in downward spiral of POG.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:40
Silverbaron (The Employment Report Shell Game) ID#288295:
http://nypostonline.com/business/2333.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:35
6pak (belong to God and to God alone @ it is time our Creator had some rights, too. ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Prince Charles heats up debate over genetically altered crops

They say Canadian producers cannot guarantee their bees aren't drawing nectar from genetically engineered plants and, as a result, Canadian honey is suspect.

Charles, a longtime advocate of organic farming, said he believes that modifying the genetic makeup of crops could open the door to enormous, unforeseen problems in the way that the quest for cheaper food may have caused Britain's mad cow crisis.

Canada used to export about $240 million a year worth of canola seed to Europe for processing into oil, but the European Union blocked that market about a year ago.

France, Austria and Luxembourg have been particularly hostile to imports of genetically modified foods. But the concern isn't limited to those countries.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.---AM-Charles-Genetic-Food.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:33
NightWriter (Analysts and gurus) ID#390415:
For the second time in the past few weeks, I heard an analyst recommend that everyone's portfolio contain a little gold. Not a PM or pro-gold analyst, just a standard TV talking head.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:32
The Hatt (Aussie Update Gold Down $1.40) ID#294232:
Trust the Japanese far more than the Aussies!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:31
aurophile (SWP1) ID#256326:
That reminds me of the comment that someone was so opposed to World War II that he wrote a letter to the Times.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:31
Dave (tolerant1) ID#269207:
You'll get no arguement from me, but who is this Mr. Pino Arlacchi who seems to making all these promises to the UN? And if the UN is establishing ANOTHER WORLD TRIBUNAL for trying the malfactors of the open sea, as they determine them to be, by writng the laws that govern the sea, without a navy, so to speak what in the hell is going on?


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:29
SWP1 (@JP ( 18:47) What can Japan do to slow the yen rise ?) ) ID#233199:

OK I'm in. Let's all send 'em a strongly worded e-mail. That ought to do it!


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:28
Gollum (@Bingo) ID#43352:
The equities market has driven stocks into highly inflated levels. When
stocks reach these levels, smart CEO's and insiders look for ways to
convert them into real values. Just selling them won't work unless you
have an awfully small amount because it drives the price down. So you
buy things with them...like another company by giving stock in return ( not
cash, no no not cash ) .

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:27
buff (BINGO Welcome - IMO cost is driving mergers in mining not y2k.) ID#66136:
The big will get bigger and serious investor money will migrate toward established production. Exploration $ will be tough to come by but a big winner will still be in the pile.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:27
The Hatt (Aussies Continue To Push POG Down! (-$.70)) ID#294232:
When their currency hits rock bottom they will blame everyone but themselves! The so-called Gold Producers in Australia have been a pain in the ass since day one and that will not change. Can you imagine selling forward at these numbers and having the balls to wine to the world that their resource industry is hurting! I put them in the same league as the Swiss!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:25
FOX-MAN__A (sam re: Bohl.. Sorry, I don't have any personal knowledge, but here is a) ID#288186:
web site u can check out. http://router.minot.com/~bohl/
You'll have to copy/paste the url. Fox-Man

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:23
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R, NAMASTE') ID#373284:
Gulp to ya...have to run...cooking RED MEAT...THE AMA....HA........

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:22
vronsky (kiwi - financial hari kari) ID#426220:

Your comment juggled my mind about some something I had NOT thought of for centuries. It is something I read in an old manuscript about the Nippon culture. I was so unusaul that it made an indelible print on my memory... and your comments tonight shook it loose from the conwebs of my mind - I don't really know if it is applicable, but here it is:

We take the obvious and reverse it-- and thus reverse the role of life

- unknown author of Japanese philosophy



Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:20
Gollum (@aurophile) ID#43352:
Yeah. With bimetalism, they played off one metal against another. With
multicurrencyism they have a myriad of possibilites to play off against
each other. Its worse than the dozens of different kinds of derivatives.
My head hurts.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:20
JP ( Gollum---You got it) ID#253153:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:18
buff (PREACHER - Great recap but oil may not look so bad if you check the charts) ID#66136:
for Select Funds and some other Energy indexes. Still showing higher lows. On RSA gold notice ASA had good participation and would expect the overnight to be strong in SA. Time to pay attention!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:16
Gollum (@JP) ID#43352:
So what you are saying is, the country needs to not only buy gold it
has to change it's currency to be a gold backed one. I knew it wasn't
just as simple as buy gold.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:15
aurophile (Gollum) ID#256326:
True, all too true. But isn't this just exactly what one expects when all currencies are a promise to pay nothing and do not carry an interest rate. Especially if they float. Ping-pong volatility and problems which never get solved. Trends run to extremes until they are beaten to death and die.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:13
Bingo (Greetings from a new poster and ongoing lurker!) ID#263254:
Does anyone have any comments on the significance of the unprecedented large and growing number of mega-mergers and their relation to gold/Y2K?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:12
dirt (hashimoto@japan.com) ID#215379:
Sell US bonds and Buy gold .......... TODAY

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:10
Gollum (@kiwi) ID#43352:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When the UK ( BOE ) was faced with the incipient problem, they RAISED rates. Caused a lot of consternation but I think maybe they did the
right thig. The Russians RAISED rates. Prevented a complete run on the
Ruble.

The US bond market rate is way too high for the rest of the world.

Let me put it this way. If you have the only currency on the planet earth
or if you have the one with the highest staedy state interest rate, then
you can use short term fiscal policy to control your economy. Things
get too hot you can raise rates a little. Too cool, lower them.

But what if you have a next door neighbor with equal rates and free flow
of funds between countries? If you lower rates because things are too
cool, the funds start going to his country instead of just into your
economy and things might even get cooler. Which accerates the desire to
lower rates if you have that sort of policy and the spiral goes down
down down ...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:08
sam (for Duke) ID#286234:
I am interested in getting any info on Bohl & Assoc., a commodities brokerage located in Minot, ND. If anyone can help, I would be very grateful. If you do not have personal experience, would one of you please pose the ? on the Kitco board? Again, I would be very grateful. Thanks. ( a Kitco lurker )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:06
JP (Gollum-- In response to your question ) ID#253153:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When a CB of any country buys gold and makes its currency convertible into gold on demand, that country will invite capital inflow of investment money . It will be regarded as a stable and safe currency to invest in. Look at the swiss franc. It's so strong against other currencies and so desirable . On the other side, look at the Canadian and the Australian dollars. Both countries sold most of their gold recently and their currencies are sinking on a daily basis for lack of confidence. Investment money is exiting both of these countries seeking safe heavens. Capital safety is the order of the day for large institutions and investors.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:02
Preacher (Market Comments) ID#225273:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To all:



The price of oil and the price of gold certainly didn't flow in the same direction today. I spent a great weekend in Charleston, SC at the Council of Conservative Citizens meeting. Congressman Bob Barr was the featured speaker. He has introduced a bill to impeach Clinton. I was hoping he would have some good news on the impending impeachment, but he didn't. Oh well.



Otherwise, today was a good day.



In silver, the stochastics on the weekly chart turned positive today from an oversold level. Silver has now broken out of the congestion above 5.25.

The upcoming hurdles for silver include: 1 ) surmounting the 200-day MA at 5.76; 2 ) surmounting the broken trendline at 5.90; and 3 ) surmounting the 100-day MA at 6.15.

We'll see how much, if any, of this can get done on this first leg up.



CDE rose .50. Its stochastics have not yet turned positive. It needs to get over the broken trend line at 10.50 ( today's close was 9.25 ) , clear the 200-day MA at 10.90, and clear the 100-day MA at 11.04.



In gold, if you draw a downtrend line connecting the April and May highs, today's action rallied up to that line. The stochastics are a long way from turning positive.

There is a lot of overhead resistance at/around 300. The broken uptrend line is at 300 now. The 100-day MA is at 300.07. And the 200-day MA is at 302.40.

Today's action had some power behind it. And it wouldn't take much to turn this chart positive. But let's take it one step at a time.

BTW, the longterm downtrend line, from Feb '96 has just moved below 320. So gold has much more work to do.



The XAU is similar. The MAs are converging around the 80 level. And the trendlines are converging around the 90 level. Today's close at 76.60 puts the XAU in position to make a challenge, but does little to change the overall picture.



Several of the South African stocks, including DROOY and WDEPY, made bottoming reversals this morning. This is very positive.



In the exploration and development mining shares, it looks like the last decline in the gold price drained much more investor sentiment out of them. Some of the higher-profile projects with proven orebodies hardly reacted to today's rise in the POG. That's not good for this stock sector. But I doubt it affects the future of gold. It will probably be best to be in the producers now and shift to the devlopment stocks later in the cycle, assuming we've begun an upcycle.



Happy trading,



The Preacher

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:01
kiwi (financial hari kari....) ID#194311:
that was the phrase I was looking for...if we're going down anyway let's take out someone else too....Japs are strange people.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 20:01
buff (6Pak Thanks for post on Native Peoples in Canada) ID#66136:
Its about time the Gov't became aware of the damage done by the court. I know several investors who backed off because of Voisey's Bay.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:59
kiwi (Japanese dilema....) ID#194311:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
what if they raised interest rates above US treasuries?..5-6%

their economy is stagnating anyway what they need is stop capital flowing out and get it flowing back in....a sharp jump back up in the Yen would screw a lot of currency specs to the wall...every man and his dog is short yen that's why it's tanking so fast....Soros rumoured $1 billion call options on 150 yen....how can a true market ever bear the burden of highly leveraged speculators....currency trading is way out of control and even the dollar will get whipped in due course, gold is the only pancea because one day they must deliver...we wait.

Actually if the Japs hiked interest rates bigtime then it would probably sound the death knell for US financial market bubble...hmmm now there's a thought maybe they'd better get some currency insurance first ( gold ) .

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:56
buff (Crazytimes - While looking for the post you noted this day under Mining) ID#66136:
and Natural Resources I traced a Thread that started to download an opinion concerning a gold bottom now in and got a Virus notice causing me to reject. I think OK for most post just don't download if you are led beyond the initial post.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:54
Gollum (@aurophile) ID#43352:
But of course until everone stops buying those damn bonds, nothing else
can start a big run.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:49
aurophile (Gollum) ID#256326:
as I see it, Japan is in a liquidity trap. Until the rate of return for
producing goods and services is higher than simply buying US securities
the Japanese economic system can not recover. As I have posted and quoted from Antal Fekete recently, this is the key. The US Government bond market interest rate is far too high compared to the rest of the developed world and compared to what labor and capital can return. Buying the dollar bond will be a no-brainer until gold and/or oil start a big run.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:46
STUDIO.R (@The Land of Au.zzzzzz..........) ID#288369:
In speaking with my dear Melbourne-livin' and lovin' brother this weekend, I learned of his impression that the Australian Treasury still had some gold reserves. I, however, was under the understanding that they were very short of gold, or in Okie vernacular....plum broke. Huh? ( he's lurking...tell him like it is ) . This may bring him back to the land of his birth...not.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:43
crazytimes (@ Buff) ID#342376:
A Virus? I thought there is no danger since nothing is downloaded or executable through the site. The same holds true for email, no? Could you explain more?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:42
TYoung (Brother oris...thanks for the response and...) ID#317193:
Copyright © 1998 TYoung/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am happy spot did not go to $250. Any thing that results in a plus number for Dec. gold is good. I think gold will stay low for a while and then be manipulated up towards the end of the year.

We watch this gold market together. Yes? I'm just waiting for all the shorts to have to cover in a rising market...it will be hell on wheels. The question is when, not if. Watch out for option expiry and FND...gold seems to have real problems a week or so in advance of these dates. This worm will turn one day.

I like the PMSP...kind of like greed will get you...GWGY.

Tom

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:39
Gollum (@JP) ID#43352:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
That might work. It's a little hard for me to see how, though. That's
probably because I don't understand the situation properly.

As I see it, Japan is in a liquidity trap. Until the rate of return for
producing goods and services is higher than simply buying US securities
the Japanese economic system can not recover.

Lowering interest rates to get out of the trap doesn't work because for
one thing they are already so low they are practically giving away free
yen.

If selling their US reserves to buy yen ( making US unvestments less
attractive while at the same time making yen investments more attractive )
isn't going to work because they don't have enough reserves, then it is
hard to see how selling their US reserves to buy gold ( making US
investments less attractive while making gold ownership more attractive )
will work either. Can someone explain?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:39
Prudent (aurophile) ID#224267:
aurophile ( AIII ) ID#256326:
the First and Second Banks of the US were indeed private as was the Bank of England until 1946 or 1947
when it was nationalized. The FED was fictionally private to give the it more of a political hue of
independence from the reigning imbecile in the White House, but it is every bit as much a government
agency as the Supreme Court or SSA.

Get real!!!, it is a privately owned institution ( owned by other large banks ) and is holding the Fed hostage

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:38
The Hatt (The Aussies Are Headed For Further Currency Problems!) ID#294232:
Just like every other night those blasted Aussies cannot wait to sell forward! If i had my way we would just shut them out of the Gold market and let them wallow in the misery of their beaten currency. They better pay attention to Indonesia cause they are heading in the same direction!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:37
buff (Crazytimes - Beware Virus have been found on some S I Threads) ID#66136:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:37
6pak (First Nation's People @ Property Rights & Common Law ( Reform suggests otherwise eh!)) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Canada urged to get tough on Indian land rights

OTTAWA, June 8 ( Reuters ) - Canada's Liberal government was urged by the opposition Reform Party on Monday to take a tough stand against the country's Indians and their interpretation of a landmark Supreme Court case that could grant them far reaching land rights.

The Delgamuukw decision in December, named for the chieftain who brought the case, has created uncertainty in the resource-rich province of British Columbia because it ruled that Indians may be entitled to compensation for use of much of the land they claim ownership to.
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/CANADA-DELGAMUUKW.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:35
STUDIO.R (@The House Committee on U.N.American Activities........) ID#288369:
T#1....always know, sir, that the GOLDEN SWORD OF JUSTICE stands ready in anxious wait of your welcomed beckoning. This House of which you have cursed, shall be swiftly silenced with a single swoop. ( gulp )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:34
aurophile (Gianni Dioro) ID#256326:
A friend of mine, who is a US national living in the UK, recently decamped to another Euro nation at least partly because of fears of Inland Revenue.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:26
Nick@C (G'mornin all) ID#386279:
Nice to read the posts on a POG UP day. Kinda like someone left the door to the asylum open and all these little heads are poking out and there are whisperings like Shall we make a break for it?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:25
KMTMAN@VANCOUVER (PREACHER!!!!!!!!!) ID#270315:
Where are youoooooooooooo?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:24
Gianni Dioro__A (G8 minus 1) ID#384350:
Did anyone notice now that Russia is in deep financial trouble, the G7+Russia is back to the plain old G7, and with the Euro how many countries does that knock off?

Also, has anyone heard if the UK is changing its tax laws for non-domiciled residents living in the UK?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:24
STUDIO.R (@Auric.......what's that smell? huh?) ID#288369:
I would snag the arkie witch's slippers....but, damn, they smell like pig crap. shooooweeeee......go hogs! ( away! )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:21
Silverbaron (Dave @ UN interest in digital signatures) ID#288295:
I suggest you do a web search on the subject of biometric implants ... 666

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:21
oris (TYoung, I mean crasy=crazy...) ID#238422:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:18
oris (TYoung) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Brother Tom, it's only Monday. In order for me
to be correct and for you to be happy, POG should
go up another $20 this week. That is guite a challenge,
but who knows...As you say, patience-my-son-patience. or PMSP

On the other hand, I found it to be very interesting that
we do not hear any official statement yet on EURO in regard
to percentage of gold reserves. What it means?

1. I guess guys try to win some time and../

2. This percentage will be unexpectedly low or high,
some kind of surprise for the public.

Which way it will go? Hey, brother, every normal
banker knows what is the foundation of the currency
system...

We will be watching this crasy market together,yes?




Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:09
tolerant1 (Dave, Namaste' ) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:32
Dave ( tolerant1 ) ID#269207:
I hope your right, but the UN has assumed jurisdiction of international waters and writes the law for them now. and also claims jurisdiction for enforcing civil judgments internationally.
Return to Kitco Homepage


In response to the above, so what…they claim…based on what right and which of the individuals that swore an oath to the United States has voted in favor of this…lets us see the vote and the records…and in the law I understand that when any entity assumes anything they make an ass out of u and me…I don’t think so my friend…You can not just claim that you can enforce civil judgements. Some of the states have already shown their disdain for the UN, our own Sec. Of State and put to death those rat bastards that murdered AMERICANS…END OF THAT STORY…

The UN could not sail an ice-cream stick boat, let alone patrol the oceans, UNLESS THE US government allowed it and if the UNITED STATES IS PAYING FOR THIS, SINCE WE HAVE THE NUMBER ONE NAVY ON THE PLANET WE SHOULD BE INFORMED THAT OUR MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOW UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE UN…

Koffi whatever his name is was and will be, was installed because the planet is not getting any more pale…who is this clown and when did he become the leader of the planet…HELLO…HELLO…HELLO…KOFFI…MY DEAD FATHER AND A FEW OTHERS WANT TO SEE YOUR PAPERS PAL…
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:40
Dave ( tolerant1 ) ID#269207:
What does UN mean when they say they are investigating digital signatures and asking for more money for computer technology, are they going to do what the DEA wanted to do, intrusive intercepts without a warrant?
Return to Kitco Homepage

The UN is a whore with no teeth with the plague that all the politicians love to dance with because some academic shithead thinks its good to go to cocktail parties where the people they represent would not even be allowed to park cars…

THE UN MEANS NOTHING…follow the money…it is yours…NO COUNTRY and NO PEOPLE PAY THEIR DUES like the US and the PEOPLE OF THE US…

THE UN IS A DISGRACE TO EVERY MAN AND WOMEN THAT WORE THE UNIFORMS OF THE UNITED STATES INTO BATTLE OR EVER PATROLLED THE WORLD THAT THERE MIGHT BE PEACE…

Other than that Dave…Namaste…a GIANT US GULP TO YA…put un in front of American and what do you have my friend.

UN-AMERICAN…………………………………………………………………..


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:06
oris (JTF) ID#238422:
I honestly don't know. Will probably have some info
in a few days. The only thing I know that the
majority of population in the countries of the former
Soviet Union considers the current Belorusian leader
to be some kind of jerk, no brains or leadership skills
at all. From time to time he signs such stupid orders
that everybody just starts drinking to forget
about his existance...So, I guess, if something happened,
he is a person to blame...Will post later if I have more
info.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 19:01
SDRer__A (JP--While one certainly agrees with the buy gold Japan! sentiment...) ID#93127:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
the yen/weak,dollar/strong, seem very short term 'realities'... The ONLY people being decimated by the yen's 'weakness' are Americans and in business! One can not but wonder if this ( $/strong, yen/weak ) has not been one of the most successful propaganda efforts ever! {:- ) ) Here is a brief view from the Japanese terrace.

A List of International Events Having a Bearing on Exchange Rates
1947 March-- Establishment of IMF
1949 April--Yen is fixed at 360 yen to the dollar
1967 November--November UK pound crisis
1968 March-- The US dollar crisis. A system of two prices for gold is established.
1969 August to October--French franc is devalued against the German mark
1971 August-- To protect the dollar, the US government imposes non-convertibility between gold and the US dollar. European countries and Japan adopt a flexible-rate exchange system.
1971 December-- The Smithsonian Agreement. The yen is revised 16.88% upwards against the dollar, and the dollar is devaluated 7.89 against gold. Yen is fixed at 308 yen to the dollar.
1972 June--UK pound crisis. A flexible-rate exchange system is adopted.
1973 February-- US dollar is devalued by 10%
1973 March--Reintroduction of the flexible-rate exchange system in most advanced countries.

1983--Due to US high interest rate policy, the Japanese yen falls to low level ( 240 yen to the dollar )

1985 September--September G5 meeting adopts a low-dollar high-yen policy.
Source: Koukou Jiyu-Jizai,Gendai Shakai, Juken-Kenkyu-sha, l988

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:54
MM (Belarus ordering diplomats to vacate official residences) ID#350179:
http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/international/0608/i_ap_0608_73.sml
But: The proposed evictions, however, affect several embassies and appeared unrelated to U.S.-Belarusian relations.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:54
Auric (STUDIO.R in OZ) ID#255151:

Just had a vision of your house being picked up by the twister and landing on Hillary.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:50
snowbird (Earthquake Information) ID#220325:
Try here http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/quake/gldfs.cr.usgs.gov

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:47
JP (What can Japan do to slow the yen rise ?) ID#253153:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A rising yen could lead to a complete melt down in the Japanese banking system . What are some of the options available to Japan to stem the yen rise ?
1. Raising interest rates in Japan is not an acceptable solution. Japan is on the verge of a massive depression
2. Do nothing and experience a total collapse as well as the imposition of import controls by foreign countries on incoming Japanese goods .
3. Sell their massive $200 B hoard in US treasuries to raise yens . Last month they sold approximately $20B in US treasuries but these sales failed to slow the the dollar rise. The dollar today vs the Japanese yen is much higher than it was last month. They have waisted $20 B without showing any results.
3. Use their massive reserves to buy gold on the open market. In my opinion this is the only viable alternative the Japanese currently have.
It will stop the yen slide and I believe the yen will begin to appreciate vs the dollar. It will make the Japanese currency a very desirable,prestigious and respected currency like the swiss franc and improve their image as world leaders in financial matters. A rising yen will enable the Japanese banks to withstand defaults on their foreign loans.

Let's wait and watch what they do .

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:41
SDRer__A (From BOJ to Bank of Jamaica to Bank of New York...cozy) ID#93127:
The Bank of New York Appoints CIBC Trust & Merchant Bank Jamaica, Ltd

Is Bank’s Sub-Custodian In Jamaica
NEW YORK, N.Y., April 9, 1998 -- The Bank of New York announced today that it has appointed CIBC Trust & Merchant Bank Jamaica Ltd. as its sub-custodian in Jamaica, effective immediately. Jamaica becomes the 85th country in the Bank’s industry-leading global custody network.
http://www.bankofny.com/pr/cibctrmb.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:40
Dave (tolerant1) ID#269207:
What does UN mean when they ssy they are investigating digital signatures and asking for more money for computor technology, are they going to do what the DEA wanted to do, intrusive intercepts without a warrant?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:39
TYoung (Brother oris) ID#317193:
Copyright © 1998 TYoung/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My Dec. $299 contracts wish to thank you for your astute observations regarding a rise in gold. Actually, my spouse may now discuss the subject with me without laughing at me for my foolishness.

I think I'll place my stops close ( $2-3 ) if spot goes above $310. Greed got me last time out.

I'm waiting for $318...only beer til then. A pickle or two just to keep in practice. What was that..long and hard?

You know the problem with posting here...you get a specific ID#. Easy to tell if someone else is assuming an..... identity.Yes?

We wait for the Euro announcement and I do not expect much from them until late in the year. The game is, however, afoot.

Tom

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:38
Tantalus Rex (Cameco Gold - Cyanide spill) ID#295111:
FYI

Government is seeking 8.3 million damages for a truck accident at Kumtor Gold mine.

Its the tenth largest gold mine in the world.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/kyrgyzstan_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:35
STUDIO.R (@Cloudular rock 'n roll.........) ID#288369:
I was going to post as the tornado cloud went pretty much right over the house.....yes, an unparalleled, unselfish act of spectacular stupidity. But my better sense ( my wife ) made me go downstairs and hide. Just think about the EPIC story of studio's unselfish BRAVERY...He scoffed at the cyclone and pressed forward with his last Kitco post. He's gone now...but, at least, he was doing what he loved best...and then he just flew away....ohmy studio.stupid-stormchaser

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:35
JTF (I stand corrected) ID#57232:
oris: Undoubtedly you know. So -- what then is happening in Belarus? Somthing is up.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:35
Silverbaron (JTF @ USGS contact in Belarus) ID#288295:
Here is somewhere to find out for sure about the supposed earthquake in Belarus: http://gldss7.cr.usgs.gov/neis/station_book/Belarus_REGION.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:32
Dave (tolerant1) ID#269207:
I hope your right, but the UN has assumed jurisdiction of international waters and writes the law for them now. and also claims jurisdiction for enforcing civil judgments internationaly.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:32
Gusto Oro (NRA) ID#430260:
Charlton Heston was elected President of the NRA today. His comment shot BC's way: We don't trust you with our 21-year-old daughters and we sure don't trust you with our guns. --AG

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:30
JTF (Belarus Web site) ID#57232:
All: Looks like major inflation in Belarus. Apparently they out printed the Russian Rouble. Please note -- only 4% of individual liquid ( paper? ) assets in Banks. Rest elsewhere.

http://www.open.by/belarus-now/cont/1998/0602/finance/index.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:27
oris (Old Soldier) ID#238422:
You are correct, there were indeed many Russian atomic
submarines lost in the past 30 years. I heard the number
of 63 serious accidents, with more than 12 subs lost at
sea. That is a pretty sad record for the Soviet Navy...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:26
SDRer__A (Prometheus--Yes indeedy!) ID#93127:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
But have we not been lead to believe that the Japanese were completely
unaware of the procedure? {:- ) ) Why their banks are in a shambles as
compared to US banks which are bastions of fiscal know-how! ( Given a thirty year track record of loses, ranging from farm loans, 3rd world loans, oil loans, S&L quakes, on ad infinitum. Someone once made an an acronym from all the imprudent, bad loans that US banks had 'done'. The acronym spelled FOOLS.

This BOJ development is one of the more puzzling threads yet ( and there are some dillys ) ...BOJ/Bank of Jamaica is beginning to overshadow Standard Charter/Rothschild as a sanctum sanctorum.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:25
tolerant1 (ARAGORNIII) ID#373284:
Namaste' How are ya...well I hope...gold burps and silver sneezes and everyone gets in a tizzy...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:24
tolerant1 (Hey kids...THE UN is about to get its butt handed to it...) ID#373284:
Watch and see history take a different turn...MONEY TALKS and the rest walks...even TED's from Atlanta...Ha...........When the BIG DOGS BARK the rest of the BIG DOGS will start howling...at first in the distance and then I think they call it the Dopler Effect...grrr-ruff from NY...Ha.............................

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:24
sam (KB&G) ID#286234:
I have to run an errand but I am going to open anyway 'cuz there's lots of folks online.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:17
Dave (retired soldier) ID#269207:
You may be right, what bothers me, and I am beginning to think their right, is the educated community ( Stanford and Hoover ) claim the Drug war is causing more damage than the drugs ever didm and paragraph 145 in the press release to day says we are getting a UN world court to handle malfactors, money launders and excet., I resent having to do a background check on everything I do, and I don't like asking to do it.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:16
aurophile (AIII) ID#256326:
the First and Second Banks of the US were indeed private as was the Bank of England until 1946 or 1947 when it was nationalized. The FED was fictionally private to give the it more of a political hue of independence from the reigning imbecile in the White House, but it is every bit as much a government agency as the Supreme Court or SSA.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:15
crazytimes (Comment just posted from the Veneroso Camp on S. I. Thread....) ID#342376:
Copyright © 1998 crazytimes/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As you know I have been talking about a set up for awhile now. If I am right, this kind of price action today is what should happen. The gold market goes up and everyone is befuddled as to why. What is really going on here, I think, is the big boys know the EMU selling has or is about to end. They are buying. The specs are short. A Dutch announcement will prove demand bigger than known and there will not be this excess, abnormal supply to stop the next rally ( at least for $40 or so ) . The in crowd knows this. . It would be nice to have roaring commodities, a weak dollar, political chaos, and great Asian demand, and it would help, but the real key is a big reduction to this crushing central bank supply.
Bill


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:14
Old Soldier (Glomar Challenger, Soviet subs, nuclear events and earthquakesGlomar Challenger, Soviet subs, nuclea) ID#185274:
Copyright © 1998 Old Soldier/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There have been numerous incidents with Soviet nuclear subs having trouble. Some sunk, some didn’t. Recall the case of the sub near Japan that had to surface and put the crew on deck. It was spilling plenty of radiation. As it headed for port, it passed between some Japanese Islands. The Japanese raised hell but the Soviets just did it. The U.S. Navy built a number of surface and subsurface ships over the years specifically to gain access to goodies the Soviets had strewn over the sea floor. There was considerable success.

Due to the fall of the Soviet Union and poor maintenance, many Soviet subs have long since sunk in their pens in and around the Kola Peninsular, Murmansk area. They are a local ecological hazard but cannot be resurrected for use.

No nuclear weapon is powerful enough to register as an 8.4 seismic event. One seismometer being kicked over does not cause a false seismic detection of a real event. It takes the combined data from numerous seismometers to calculate the size and location of an event. An 8.4 event is so huge that it could not be hidden. It would register on every seismometer on the planet. Plain and simple, Drudge got snookered.

Nuclear weapons do not generally trigger significant earthquakes. They are orders of magnitude too small compared to the power of significant earthquakes. Nuclear weapons are big and bad for living things but they do not approach the energy of many natural phenomena such as hurricanes, volcanoes and earthquakes.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:13
oris (JTF) ID#238422:
Belarus does not have any sea ports...Ukraine does have it.
No submarine bases in Belarus.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:12
Dave (UNITED NATIONS) ID#269207:
If UN is establishing world criminal court for terrorist and drug activities, does this mean we've ceded jurisdiction to the UN to investigate and arrest US citizens pursuant due process established by UN?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:12
Prometheus (@Hi, SDRer) ID#210235:
Nice to see you posting again. That bank restructuring looks familiar, wasn't that done during the US S&L crisis? Splitting the bank into 2 and putting all the bad loans into one of the new ones?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:11
Aragorn III (Promie...excellent point, well taken.) ID#212323:
My thoughts were toward the many lurkers who might not discern so easily the pint of ale from the urine sample, but then again, we've got the best-damn lurkers in the world. Still, someone should have sent him scuttling off to school so as to avoid impotence by association.

Gone...to remove foreign object from eye.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:08
aurophile (Aragorn Three) ID#256326:
....nonsense about the Federal Reserve System NOT being a private business structure ( non-USGovt ) ..... A private business structure it has with shareholders and the like, but I think no one could rationally maintain that it FUNCTIONS as a private business.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:08
RETIRED SOLDIER (@ Dave) ID#347235:
It was I retired soldier, not to be confused with old soldier who greatly outranks me and has been retired a little less time than I. THanks, for the info, but I do think the other three are more dangerous than Newt.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:08
SDRer__A (Aragon--Sorry 'bout that! JAL is a bit difficult. {:-)) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To make up for that, shall we treat you to a Cambio license?

Cambio Licencing Requirements

The Bank of Jamaica ( BOJ ) wishes to advise of the following eligibility criteria for persons seeking licences to operate cambios.

Persons may apply to operate cambios throughout Jamaica, in hotels, at ports of entry ( air and sea ports ) and at other locations.

The general criteria on which applications will be considered are as follows:

1.The capability of the applicant in dealing with matters relating to foreign exchange and his/her willingness to employ suitable and adequate staff to
operate efficiently;
2.Evidence of sufficient financial resources of the applicant to enable him/her to operate a cambio successfully;
3.An assessment of whether or not the applicant is a fit and proper person having regard to his/her character and past record;
4.The availability of suitable and secure premises where the licenced business is to be conducted.
http://www.boj.org.jm/camb_lic.htm

Five or six of these, as listed on the current page, look to be convenience stores ( Super Food Store Plus-I kid you not ) ; the back-room
operations must be wondrous indeed!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 18:04
JTF (Belarus?) ID#57232:
MM: I think there is a major Russian sub base in Belarus. It is very odd that the US embassy is getting boarded up. Could be that the Belarans do not want us spying on their activities. Something Nuclear? I think our Kitco sleuths might want to scour the virtual airways -- Could be very important.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:59
Avalon (crazytimes; thanks, don't know why I didn't think of) ID#254269:
that.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:59
aurophile (Dave) ID#256326:
I was rather hoping we could get the attorneys-general and every man-jack of a scumbag trial lawyer in America to sue those drugs guys into oblivion.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:58
Prometheus (@Aragorn III) ID#210235:
About not dealing with Rob's silly assertions. Someone did correct him on the Fed. It was clear that Rob was speaking from ignorance; he hadn't done even rudimentary homework. If he had either read Kitco posts over time, or read any economic history of the USA, he wouldn't have been spouting such nonsense. Do we really have to engage each illiterate boor who wants to spout drivel? On a Friday or Saturday night? I don't think so.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:54
Aragorn III (SDRer) ID#212323:
Nothing warms my heart more than reading a binary file...in ASCII!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:54
Dave (old soldier) ID#269207:
check out manager@drcnet.org, they list Newt, and three others as main movers in drug war, and maybe UN involvement is what Newt meant by a WWII
type war in future.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:53
crazytimes (@ Avalon) ID#342376:
Try the full text in the viewing option box. That might work. I never use the short text anymore. It's too cumbersome when you want to read many posts.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:49
Avalon (Computer problems; woe is me. Every now and again, I click on the ..... more words) ID#254269:
and nothing happens. The little box in the corner says Connecting to host..... wait for reply. and I wait and wait and wait. will not connect.Using Netscape Navigator. Does anyone have any clues what problem may be ? TIA

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:48
SDRer__A (Prometheus-re: your Caribbean speculations…) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

When not in the Euro stables ( griny thing ) I'm baling straws in the wind, attempting to sort out Bank of Japan BEING the central bank of Jamaica--Bank of Jamaica. Your comments add some interesting flavors. Take a look at this, for a starter…
http://www.boj.org.jm/press/pr961016.htm

All-here is what the postal gold franc is all about ( one senses the enormous stress 'not knowing' has been for you all… {:- ) )

…since the introduction of the Universal Postal Union, there has been an international arrangement whereby short-payment of postage should be observed by the country in which the item was first posted, and the shortfall recorded on the letter or card by means of the use of a stamp designating in International Currency ( based upon the Gold Franc )
http://www.teleworker.co.za/saphilatelist/03803.html

Postal gold franc in action
http://www.jal.co.jp/jalcargo/word/p.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:48
Gollum (@JTF) ID#43352:
Those damn temporal skips. The Tardis used to have a lot of trouble
with those too.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:46
Goldteck (Aug gold up $4.80, others jump too) ID#431200:
-

Jun 8 1998
5:42PM EDT Aug gold up $4.80, others jump too
06/08/98 15:31 ET
   New York--Jun 8--COMEX gold futures settled up $4.80 at $298.40 perounce after hitting a 13-day high of $298.80 per ounce on technicallydriven fund buying. Jly silver ended up 14.5 cents at $5.418 per ounceafter jumping to a 1-month high of $5.425, also in a technical move,continuing Friday's price recovery.    In gold, traders said that funds had decided to try for the upsideafter failing in their attempts to push gold lower in recent sessions. Some noted that there were also rumors a Canadian producer had bought back some short positions, helping prices higher.    It was encouraging that gold managed to move higher, despite the continued strengthening in the dollar, said a trader.    It was hovering around current levels and they can't get it into the $280s so it was logical to take a shot at the upside, said a trader, noting that today's action was probably a combination of fresh buying and short-covering.
    Traders noted that some sell-stops had been triggered as gold moved higher, exacerbating the move.  Silver, in its climb today, continued a recovery from Friday's dip to a1-week low. However, traders noted that volume was light. Like gold it's
all technical, said a trader.   Silver bounced back Friday after finding good support in the $5.00-5.10 level. Jly's tumble to the 1-week low of $5.055 that day was encouraged by the triggering of sell stops, but traders said silver began to look
attractive from a technical standpoint at the lows and trade buying quickly emerged, with fresh long positions established. The close above the $5.25 Friday put silver on a good technical footing, they noted Friday.    Platinum and palladium were encouraged higher by the climb in gold and
silver prices, with some noting that there was probably some short-covering in palladium as the market waited for the next shipment of Russian material.
SETTLEMENT PRICES
    --Aug gold ( GCQ8 ) at $298.40, up $4.80; RANGE: 298.80-291.40
    --Jly silver ( SIN8 ) at $5.418, up 14.5c; RANGE: 5.425-5.125
    --Jly platinum ( PLN8 ) at $364.20, up $4.30; RANGE: 364.50-356.50
    --Sep palladium ( PAU8 ) at $287.05, up $10.05; RANGE: 292.00-275.00
SPOT PRECIOUS METALS PRICES:
                  Late New York London Late Tokyo
Gold ( KRCGL ) 296.00-296.50 291.15-291.65 289.95-290.45
Silver ( KRCSL ) 5.43-5.45 5.24-5.28 5.22-5.25
Platinum ( KRCPL ) 359.00-361.00 357.00-360.00 357.50-259.50
Palladium ( KRCPA ) 290.00-300.00 295.00-295.00 288.00-298.00
 

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:46
Bully Beef (Earl without the E on the end. Nice chart. It really does make gold look ) ID#259282:
like it wants to go up in steps with the next bottom higher and the next top higher. Actually it looks textbook classic. I would really lke to see it go. Go gold!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:43
JTF (Sorry) ID#57232:
Don't know what happened -- A temporal 'skip' of some kind with multiple entry points?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:41
JTF (Glomar Challenger) ID#57232:
Old Soldier: The only missing Russian sub I know with some confidence is the one the US Military used the Glomar Challenger to reach -- that deep sea platform developed by Hughes. The Russians were not pleased. I think there was at least one other that met with a Nuclear accident of some kind -- somewhere in the North Atlantic.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:41
Earl (Daily Silver chart.) ID#227238:
What can you say? APH had this one nailed tightly. The rounding bottom is looking more positive all the time and 570 looks like a promising short term goal.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:40
JTF (Glomar Challenger) ID#57232:
Old Soldier: The only missing Russian sub I know of is the one the US Military used the Glomar Challenger to reach -- that deep sea platform developed by Hughes. The Russians were not pleased.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:40
JTF (Glomar Challenger) ID#57232:
Old Soldier: The only missing Russian sub I know of is the one the US Military used the Glomar Challenger to reach -- that deep sea platform developed by Hughes. The Russians were not pleased.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:40
JTF (Glomar Challenger) ID#57232:
Old Soldier: The only missing Russian sub I know of is the one the US Military used the Glomar Challenger to reach -- that deep sea platform developed by Hughes. The Russians were not pleased.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:39
JTF (Glomar Challenger) ID#57232:
Old Soldier: The only missing Russian sub I know of is the one the US Military used the Glomar Challenger to reach -- that deep sea platform developed by Hughes. The Russians were not pleased.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:39
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Gold/Silver Ratio = 54.51 The 50 day moving average is 51.54

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:38
tolerant1 (Prometheus) ID#373284:
Even Tea needs to steep...everything in time...Namaste'

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:37
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .259 The 50 day moving average is .274. My database contains 34 occasions where the XAU closed in the 76.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price today is #28. The #1 ranking was on 12/31/86 with gold at $404.90, XAU at 76.26 and the XAU/AU ratio at .188

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:36
Prometheus (@T1) ID#210235:
Well I sure hope somebody starts talking soon, cause right now it's looking mighty bleak.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:35
Earl (Daily gold.) ID#227238:
Short term it is a positive looking chart. The bulls wrested control of the market last Tues and are now in control .... for the moment. It will be important to watch the downside reactions for any weakness in the long side.

My read at the moment: Long term: sideways.

Medium term: sideways.

Short term: Up.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:35
SWP1 ( @auroophile: Ohh - you talk pretty!) ID#233199:

aurophile:

If this move up after a fiver down from 6 April is a mere correction, $401-$408 remains do-able. If it is a resumption of the bull move from 12-29 January, then $4010 t0 $4080 is do-able, in due-able course.

Yes.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:34
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 30.64 The 50 day moving average is 29.87

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:30
MM (US threatens to retaliate against Belarus) ID#350179:
http://www.newshub.com/cgibin/rd.cgi?46922

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:29
Silverbaron (Avalon @ Napoleon) ID#288295:
Since you mentioned Napoleon earlier...just opened my smail mail and my order for a couple French 40 Franc Napoleons ( mine were dated 1810 and 1812 ) arrived today...A charming piece of history for a small premium over bullion ( $155 for abt 0.4 ounces fine gold per coin ) . Anyone else interested in the source, send me an email at Silverdolr@webtv.net

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:29
Earl (Weekly gold.) ID#227238:
A small hammer formed last week indicating a change of trend. With today's postitive candle, it looks good for near term. If the upper channel remains valid, POG should see 330 before resistance ( see last Aug/Sept ) begins to put a brake on the move.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:27
tolerant1 (RE: The UN and EnviroWhore Gore and Maddy, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Let it be known that a whole bunch of much bigger dogs than me think they are a bunch of idiots. When they pay their damn bills we might let the UN stay in the US but they are no longer welcome in NY.

And as far as the schlep from AR and his pontificating wife...last time, she was, in the City acting like an Apple she found herself on the sidewalk like the rest of the loud trash.

End of story...all that is the United States is not the DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA...

Oh YEAH NEWT...YOU TALK ALOT BUT YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE AS WELL...so lay off the rhetoric...huh...you ain't fooling nobody boy...

WHEN THE BIG MONEY IN NY STARTS TO TALK...HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:25
Aragorn III (JP, JTF, Studio.R, Sharefin, and All regarding regarding sleeping at the wheel) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
JP--very well constructed piece Sunday 14:11!
JTF--great philosophical musings over the weekend. Always look for the piece of the puzzle which is gold...it's IN there!
Studio.R--Kudos for your Saturday ( ? ) text relating goldmines and banks.
Sharefin--THANK YOU for your response. Your information helped me solve my wallpaper difficulties.
Everyone--Rob showed up on the scene Friday and Saturday with some nonsense about the Federal Reserve System NOT being a private business structure ( non-USGovt ) and a silly notion that the US was NEVER on a gold standard--ever! I was not within the Halls of Kitco at the time, but why did nobody else raise a finger to engage him further on his uniquely skewed views, and further endeavor to set the matter aright?!!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:24
Gusto Oro (Crazytimes...) ID#430260:
And I'm going to take my Richard Jewel pill--my Mac and AOL just bombed me. --AG

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:20
Earl (Monthly gold back to 92 or so.) ID#227238:
We have six months of base building with tested low in the 290 area. For June we have small hammer forming which should indicate a change of trend. Now we must see if this is the beginning of more than just a one month flash in the pan. ....... but it does look like a firm bottom is in place.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:17
crazytimes (@ LGB) ID#342376:
I'm so glad you took that my post the way I intended ( lighthearted ) . Despite our philosophical differences, it's nice that we can come together in enthusiasm for the yellow. I shall raise my glass to you and take my Tibetan Jewel Pill. ( I don't dare tell you what's in it until the Kitco Bash! )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:13
IDT (S. African Golds underperformed today. Any guesses as to why?) ID#228128:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:12
Avalon (Indonesia. This is not meant to antagonize anyone here but is a serious question.) ID#254269:
Just read Gollum's 16.19. Just HOW does Indonesia get fixed ? As far as I can understand, anything that the Indonesians do, will make things worse, or am I missing something ? TIA

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:10
6pak (WetGold @ 15:58 -(Milord, can we expect these 12 poor mutts on a jury) ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BRITISH PHOSPHATES & BEEF-EXTRACT, LTD. v. THE UNITED ALKALI & GUANO SIMPLEX ASSOC. [Why is a Jury?]

[Before Mr. Justice MOLE]

This complicated action has now lasted thirteen days. Sir Ethelred Rutt, K.C., whose health has recently been causing general concern, made a startling attack upon the jury in his closing speech for the plaintiff today. He said:

SIR ETHELRED RUTT: May it please your Lordship, members of the jury, me learned friend Sir Humphrey has just completed an eloquent speech which continued for two days, and was at least one day too long. I must confess it worried me

Yet you will recall, milord, how often we have found ourselves -- sometimes all three of us -- in an incontestable fog about some vital point, exactly what a witness said or a correspondent wrote, the date of an interview, the amount of a cheque or bribe, the wording of a formula, the position of a building; and how many minutes we have spent each day upon excavating the forgotten facts from the deserts of documents with which we are surrounded. And how, milord, can we expect these twelve poor mutts on the jury ---

THE JUDGE: What is a mutt?

.............Things that Mutts Can't Reasonably Be Expected to Do

THE JUDGE: Do the jury wish Sir Ethelred to continue?

,,,,,,,Sir Ethelred Continues

THE FOREMAN OF THE JURY: Yes, milord; we find the gentleman refreshing.

THE JUDGE: Then perhaps Sir Ethelred will make a gradual approach to the case which is before us?

SIR ETHELRED: No, milord, that is just the point. Members of the jury, for the reasons adumbrated I consider it quite idle to discuss this difficult case with you at all.

Though I spoke with the tongues of men and of angels for as long as me learned friend Sir Humphrey, it would still be a complete gamble which side you came down on. For all I know, the gentleman with the strongest personality in that box may particularly dislike me or have a warm admiration for Sir Humphrey Codd.

One of us two is right in this case and represents truth and honesty; the other does not; and all I propose to tell you is that I am the one who is right. But I will fortify that bald assertion with the reminder that I have at least, to your knowledge, told the truth about me learned friend, about the jury system, and about yourselves.

Which is more than Sir Humphrey can say. And I ask you to argue that if I am demonstrably truthful and right about so much I am probably truthful and right about the rest. Good afternoon.

THE FOREMAN: We find for the plaintiff.

THE JUDGE: But I haven't summed up! This will take three days.

THE FOREMAN: Milord, it is not necessary. We are all sure Sir Ethelred is right. Milord, it is the wish of the jury to give three hearty cheers for Sir Ethelred Rutt!

THE JUDGE: Oh, very well. Judgment for the plaintiff. This jury must not serve again.
http://pages.prodigy.com/kmoser/herb11.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:09
Prometheus (@Hi, Sam I am. ) ID#210235:
No, there is not a Horace here. Horace is good. If you change your handle, be sure to tell us. We're already plenty confused. ( :-^ )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:06
LGB (@NightWriter..Crazytimes...Yes..I join!) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Yes I agree with you both, Gree..uh I mean GOLD is good! In spite of my objections to this thesis or that, attacking 20th century progress, and claiming Gold never changes value....

I think it's a GREAT time to get into the wonderful shiny yellow noble metal. My only dilemna is, there are so MANY other great precious metals opportunities on the buffet table. Gold & silver shares, Silver, Platinum, ( and I'm still sorely tempted after derivitaves ) my head is spinning like Linda Blair's, trying to figure out what to buy!

( Much powder still dry in worthless U.S. dollars...the Lurking GoldBug )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:02
Selby (An SA view on SA Mines and Gold) ID#286230:
Copyright © 1998 Selby/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Erratic gold is for speculators,

not investors

6/6/98

THE average South African still has a blind-spot when it comes to gold

and gold shares. Raise the issue of the gold price at a dinner party and

you're certain of finding more than half the guests believing that one

day the gold price will start soaring, taking gold shares with it.

To understand this strange phenomenon one has to go back almost

two decades, especially from 1976 to 1980 when the gold price soared

to $850 an ounce.

Many investors made fortunes out of their gold shares, because there

are few investments that offer the kind of gearing that South African

gold shares do.

I remember cutting my teeth as a financial journalist in the heady days

of this gold rush. The gold price and soaring gold shares were a

feature of almost every newspaper, radio and television broadcast.

Without fail, analysts were predicting a gold price in the thousands of

dollars rather than in the hundreds.

On January 21, 1980 the gold price peaked at $850 an ounce and

started dropping. It hasn't stopped since.

An overview of the gold share market shows a steady decline with short

bursts of upward movement, often spectacular, but the trend has

remained downwards.

Those South Africans who still feel that one day the world will wake up

to the intrinsic investment quality of gold as the ultimate store of value,

need to have been at this week's Saturday Star/Magnus Heystek

Investments Investors Club meeting in Johannesburg, where Michael

Price, the president of Franklin Asset Managers, addressed the

audience via a satellite link-up.

I waited for the inevitable question from the audience: What are your

views on gold and the gold price, Mr Price?

Price, like all other international speakers that we have used in recent

years, was quite brutal in his reply.

I have never bought gold or gold shares in my life, was the reply, swift

and prompt. No discussion.

The response from the audience was unbelieving, almost hostile. After

the seminar several members of the audience came to have a chat

about, you guessed it, gold and their views of the gold market.

Many other investors hold similar views, especially elderly investors

who remember the good old days. They simply cannot bring

themselves to sell their gold shares.

But the message is clear and has been for some time. The gold

industry is in a sunset phase, with many mines coming to the end of

their lives.

The message, as far as I'm concerned, is that gold shares are for

speculators, not for investors. You may make money when the gold

price runs, but you cannot depend on an asset as unpredictable as

gold.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:02
OLD GOLD (Kaplan) ID#242325:
Good volume in NEM and ABX today, but HM, PDG, and ASA not very high. More impressive was the ability of gold to rally in the face of another strong jump in the dollar index. Kaplan's statement on Friday that gold stocks were extremely cheap looks to have been right on the money.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 17:01
Silverbaron (Avalon) ID#273432:

Aw, shucks! I was hoping for ( at least ) a million shares of Bre-X.....Got any gold trivia?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:59
RETIRED SOLDIER (U.N.) ID#347235:
I think if the UN starts running things you should than der Schlickmeister, ALGORE, and Maddy ALLDYKE. Not Newt.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:59
aurophile (wow, he said, bow wowing.......) ID#256326:
cette a dire, $301 to $308...............jeez

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:56
aurophile (Correction?) ID#256326:
If this move up after a fiver down from 6 April is a mere correction, $401-$408 remains do-able. If it is a resumption of the bull move from 12-29 January, then $4010 t0 $4080 is do-able, in due-able course. Yes.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:55
Prometheus (@I smell a clamp down on those off-shore banking havens.) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As usual, using the drug prohibition as the excuse for enforcing stronger currency controls, and destroying the confidentiality of offshore tax havens.

From BBC News:

( Clinton ) also pledged US assistance for financial intelligence units dedicated to rooting out the passage of drug money, as well as praising the efforts of poorer drug-producing countries to stamp out the drugs industry within their own borders.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_109000/109299.stm


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:50
sam__A (@ Prometheus) ID#286284:

No, I am not that Sam, I am the other Sam I am. And yes, they stuck me with the sam__a handle by default. If there is already a Sam here, then I will happily to try to find another handle. How about Horace? Is there a Horace here?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:45
sam__A (Si Warehouse stocks) ID#286284:

Pardon the confusion - we are apparently unchanged at 87913 million. Thr screen said something different than the phone recording.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:44
Prometheus (@Hi, Sam_A) ID#210235:
I don't think you're Sam, as in Sam who has the Kitco Bar and Grill chat some evenings. It's real hard to keep track of the two of you, and Liberty and Liberty_A as to who wrote what over time. DId Kitco assign you the Sam_A automatically, when you, perhaps, suggested the name Sam?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:42
Dave () ID#269207:
Yes indeed the UN is going to establish an international world tribunal and and international laws of governance and the means to enforce them, which all shall have to obey, thanks Newt.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:37
sam__A (Who's got Si warehouse stocks?) ID#286253:

The exchange sees to have goofed in their report today, saying they were _down_ 600,000 to 87 913 million. Well, either they were up to 87.9 or down to 86.9. Anybody got the right answer? ( The market was up a penny and a half in the aftermarket. )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:24
Poorboys (I got my High Tec Water pistol ready to cool those hot buyers) ID#227168:
As Gold is dancing the Hippie Hippie Shake and Silver is bouncing like a rubber ball and the volume is missing the inflated hot air. Bring on the promoters –I got my 300k Water pistol ---Away for target practice

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:22
WetGold (I still like the fundamentals of RANGY and just placed another limit order for 10,000 @ 0.75) ID#187218:
,,,,, load-m-up ,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:21
James (Rube@AU bounced today because the mkt is expecting the USG to make) ID#252150:
another futile attempt to help Japan defend the Yen . Lower $U.S.=higher POG.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:20
Gianni Dioro__A (Séquin) ID#384350:
In my earlier post, I just wanted to add to your comments. The money supply not fixed was just used as a title for my commentary, no dissention was intended.

IMF loans being in Dollars just keeps these nations in subservience. 10 for 11, Babylon and on it goes.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:19
Gollum (A gentle current of air stirs) ID#43352:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Indonesia must not cut interest rates-Fischer

WASHINGTON, June 8 ( Reuters ) - Indonesia's interest rates must not be lowered at this time because of the threat of
hyperinflation, the IMF's First Deputy Managing Director Stanley Fischer said on Monday.

``If the exchange rate in Indonesia stays where it is now and interest rates were to be cut ... you'd simply have an unsustainable
situation that would lead to hyperinflation -- and that is totally devastating,'' Fischer told an IMF conference when asked about
setting interest rates for Asia's crisis-hit economies -- Indonesia, South Korea and Thailand.

The IMF is sending a team this week to Indonesia to revise its program for the country's battered economy.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:18
aurator () ID#255284:

Nick@C
Not a wonderful dawn for antipodeans, the Aus$ dipped below US$0.60 and the NZ$ dipped below US$0.50 overnight. Reserve Bank of Stralia reportedly spent A$3 billion in an attempt to step in front of a speeding train.


Got a book for you, Great Frauds & Everyday Scams by John Croucher published by Allen & Unwin in Stralia 1997. Not all the crooks within are stralian! Some great hoots too.

That One Nation Party is a real hoot too? No?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:17
CoolJing (crazytimes) ID#343171:
I too sold pegasus, in at .50 out at .80 ( CDN ) , fun huh?. None of my business but here goes: golden eagle is a fraud, well at least their published 'reserves' numbers are totally void of merit. But then again money can be made on frauds, not everyone lost jing on Bre-X.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:08
Avalon (And........................ we have a winner ! Silverbaron, you are right. Your prize is ) ID#254269:
being acknowledged on this forum. ( sorry, it's the best I can do )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:06
James (John Disney@Looks like the sweet, beatific old Lady was right.) ID#252150:
Rangy -1/32 ABX +15/16

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:06
crazytimes (Exciting Day! ) ID#342376:
Copyright © 1998 crazytimes/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sold all my Pegasus shares today and bought Golden Eagle. Now I know the mood here at Kitco is not favorable on MINE, but I will not succumb to peer pressure. It could be an exciting ride. Someone on this site might as well own it. I also bought GOLD!! Called Kitco and bought Mounties. I wanted to buy from Kitco to show my appreciation of the site. Thanks Bart! I also bought some Eagles through Patriot Trading Group. Got their Y2K special. Now I'm really a Goldbug-- I've got lots of Gold Shares, lost a good deal of money on some of them, and have now bought some physical. Hope today's move is the start of something BIG for all of us. Thanks to ALL the posters here! ( except Murrstein ) Is my enthusiasm too much? I hope it's not a contrarion indicator! I shall perform an incantation later, light some incense, perhaps even take a Tibetan Jewel Pill ( said to bring immortatlity ) LGB, care to join me?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:06
Silverbaron (Avalon @ Napoleon's chess set) ID#289357:

I believe I saw this at the Biltmore House ( Asheville NC ) .

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:05
zeke (lawyers) ID#307271:
Thanks WetGold. I love Bork, probably because he is hated by every PC- Hyphenated-Last Name-Liberated Female in the book. In the old days, law was worn in the form of a 44-calibre device. Should those days return, we'll not need SHARK CHUM.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:05
Good ol' boy (Stuck) ID#26344:
POG Stuck?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:04
Avalon (Quote of the day : I see only the objective; the obstacle must give way ,) ID#254269:
Napoleon. P.S. Trivia of the day; does anyone know where Napoleon's chess set is on display ?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:01
Avalon (Dow closed at 9069 (up 31 points), volume 518 MM shares. Long Bond closed at) ID#254269:
5.787%. When is the rise going to stop ?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:01
WetGold (Winston__A: ,,,,,,,,, FINALLY someone NOT buying everything that is put out on Why-Too-Kay,,) ID#187218:
,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 16:00
Frustrated (XAU at it's daily high...) ID#298259:
...at 4:04pm 76.60 up 5.25%...a good sign for once.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:59
NightWriter (XAU) ID#390415:
XAU up 4.86% at 76.32

By the way, LGB, your facts are unimpeachable, but you have forgotten the central thesis of this site:

GOLD IS WONDERFUL!

( excuse me for shouting )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:58
WetGold (zeke ,,,, the practice of Law is what makes our country great ,,,, in this country you have the) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
RIGHT to be defended even though you may have perpetrate a crime ,,,,,,,,,, this is disturbing to most ,,,,, the part that is also troubling to most Americans, et al, is the BEHAVIOUR of the modern lawyers ,,,,,,,, but please don't confuse this with the basic tenet of law ,,,,, REMEMBER: It is the accusers' responsibility to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt ( despite the actuality of the alleged crime ) ,,,,, unfortunately we live in politically correct times and reality and fiction are mysteriously intertwined causing confusion ,,,,,,,
,,,,
a good read on law and how it has changed since the 1960's is Robert Bork's Slouching Towards Gomorrah - Modern Liberalism and American Decline.
,,,
BTW: OJ did commit the crime BUT the jury felt that the prosectuing lawyers could not prove it --- plain-n-simple .... however disturbing this appears to be ,,,,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:57
Winston__A (Inaccuracy in Media) ID#244418:
Copyright © 1998 Winston__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This was posted earlier today by an esteemed fellow-kitcoite:

( Year 2000 Time Bomb ( from US NEWS ) ) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Quote:
Finally, there are the glitches that may lurk in the
estimated 3.3 billion microprocessors in the world
that run everything from microwave ovens to
hospital equipment to stabilizers on oil tankers.
Gartner Group Inc., a Stamford, Conn., consulting
firm that has studied the Y2K problem since the
late 1980s and supplies data on it to Congress and
industry, predicts as many as 50 million
microprocessors will experience Y2K-related
anomalies.
[end article] this article from US News is full of inaccuracies.
This is not a criticism of Alberich--he didn't write it. Alberich always has better posts than I do anyway, so I can't criticize him.
1 ) There are not 3.3 billion microprocessors in the world. In
fact, over 5 billion are produced each year. The total amount in
the world is between 25 and 40 billion.
2 ) The Gartner group did NOT say that 50 million of these
embedded chips might fail. Gartner in fact said that they expected 50 million chips to fail during calendar year 1999! After that, 1% to 5%
may fail during 2000. 1% of 40 billion is 400 million failed devices.
The lesson here--major media cannot be trusted on y2k information.
Kitco-land is a much better source for all information.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:55
Prometheus (@All four metals are up.) ID#210235:
Oil's down half a buck, CRB down to 213.3, dollar strong. Metals are going their own way. Is this a technical rally? Or is there some news? Limey's out cruisin', just when we need him! Hope he took his gold shorts off before he left.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:49
Silverbaron (pyramid @ nuke testing vs earthquakes) ID#289357:

Pick and choose among these links - a lot of stuff on the subject here.

http://infind.inference.com/infind/infind.exe?query=nuclear+test+earthquake&time=7&x=38&y=18

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:49
LGB (@ Goldfevr.....Inflation & Gold) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have many problems with the thesis of David McCrury's article, not that least of which in that it completely ignores the fact that the economic gains made worldwide are largely due to fiat currency/credit based economies...which would remain in the dark ages if still linked inexctricably to Gold....

But let me just address one point in his article that belies that incredulity of his honest analysis. He makes this statement as a part of his primary thesis...

Inflation and deflation do not happen to gold

Then he goes on to describe how these are only characteristics of fiat currency, credit based paper, etc. He even discusses his familiarity with the SF bay area towards the end of his article.

My question is this. With Gold now devalued by anywhere from 4X to 8X realtive to SF area realestate, automobiles, energy prices, and just about every consumable you can think of ( except cheap K-mart suits & Asian electronics ) ....how can this man expect to be considered credible?

I've demonstrated on this forum many times, that Gold is subject to extreme fluctuations in value, relative to every otehr commodity important to humankind. Leaving theory aside, the goods most important to material standard of living...housing, food, transportation, and home energy, cost many multiples in Gold ounces currently, than they historically have in the past, even if you DON'T pick a Gold top such as 1980 as your standard of reference. Gold doesn't deflate? You'd be hard pressed to find a commodity of intrinsic value more delfated in the past decade than Gold.

With such gross misrepresentation of reality by such authors, on an issue so central to their thesis, why should I give a second thought to the rest of their thesis?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:47
zeke (lawyers) ID#307271:
I agree with Poorboys statement that you should call a lawyer before it's too late. We should see a shortage of lawyers sometime next year 'cause down in Florida where there's a net ban we're finding out that lawyers make great SHARK CHUM !




Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:47
WetGold (goldfevr ,,,,,,,, I just got a feeling of vuja-de ,,,,,,,, this is where I walk into a room and see ) ID#187218:
you realizing that I've never met you before ,,,,,
,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:43
Midas__A (Hans T - Bundesbank Chief's comments on overdoing the low market valuation of Yen, interesting read.) ID#340459:
http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/emu/emu1_03.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:35
goldfevr@pacbell.net (dejavu, II) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:48
goldfevr@pacbell.net ( another good reason for gold going up ) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A Golden Cure for World-wide Deflation
Contagion

From Thomas Jefferson, in an address to his
fellow 'founding fathers' of the new nation:

Thomas Jefferson: If the American people ever
allow the banking system to control their money,
first by inflation, then by deflation; their children
will one day wake up homeless on the continent
their fathers conquered.

The world's financial and monetary systems may
be likened to a gigantic teetering circus-tent. An
when the tent finally collapses. It will not be the
center-post that goes first; it will be the side-posts;
and even the stakes.

The stakes are the Asian Tiger economies. The
side-posts are the most important trading
partners of the U.S. This includes the strategic
national economies of: Hong Kong/China, Japan,
Canada, Mexico, South America and Europe. The
center-post is the U.S. economy, including its
stock markets.

The tent is the world-economy, built on a
mountain of artificial money and credit, created out
of thin air, by a politically engineered and
dominated central banking system, that has
mastered the art of legalized counterfeiting. It has
taken generations, to perfect this art and master
this tune, that plays to the drum-beat of billions of
dollars of false wealth created per week.

Not too many years ago, it was against the law to
counterfeit money, including by governments or
banks.

And now what: Gold going up?…in the midst of
spreading Deflation? How can this be!

I've been visiting the Kitco site for about a year
now; and it is evident from the discussions there,
that most of us are still deluded by, and caught up
in, the artificial Santa-Clause Economy built on the
BIG LIE: money and credit created out of nothing.
This insures an over-extended, artificial, seemingly
benevolent economic summer that may last for
generations. All the while the masses
misperceptions grow, while the money-masters of
power, in the world, in control of interest rates, of
credit availability, and of the volume of money
flooding the world….they thus become economic
dictators in hiding….ruling over the ultimate value
of the money you earn, spend, invest, and save for
a 'rainy-day or retirement, or the kids'' education.

The world over central banks have evolved with
their governments blessings into a quiet, awesome
club of collusion and unbridled power. They hold
in their hands the destinies of nations, and the fate
of millions. Reginald McKenna, a 19th century
banker of England said: Give me control of a
nation's money, and I care not who makes the
laws.

It is, in fact, very natural, for gold to go up, as
deflation intensifies. Just as it is very natural for
gold to go up in inflationary times, as well. That is
because the inflation and deflation are happening
to the paper currency, the artificial money of the
realm. Inflation and deflation do not happen to
gold. And it is artificial, unbacked money and
credit, once it is spawned out across the world,
that ebbs and flows by the billions and trillions,
thus distorting and manipulating the economies of
the world's nations. Once this spreading cancer is
set in motion, the economies and countries grow
increasingly out of balance, and ultimately out of
control. And it almost always starts showing up in
an obvious way with with currency instability,
which was the root of the problem to begin with -
unreal currencies. Just ask the hundreds of
thousands of Asians who have just been laid off,
or reduced to 30% of their previous income, almost
overnight.

The ignorance, misconceptions and confusion
grow, because we seem to live in enduringly good
times. And the BIG LIE – that artificial money
created out of nothing is real money -- has had
generations of time to take root: in our institutions
of higher learning, in the board rooms of our most
brilliant corporations, at the family dinner table
discussions of what we studied in school today,
and in the not so noble halls of government offices
across our fair land. What we have failed to
understand, or have forgotten, is that the basic
standard, the unit of a nation's money -- the
medium of exchange and store of value -- is the
foundation of, and the fundamental building block,
upon which, a nation's entire economy is built. It is
essential for this unit, this standard of money, to
be freely, willingly , and universally acceptable
because it is stable, real, and can be trusted, by
any and every one.

Historically only gold money, or money and credit
units convertible to and backed by gold, have
endured as real money, immune to both inflation
and deflation. Gold is independent and free of
manipulation and control by any governmental
powers and special interests. John Adams' words
of 200 years ago are just as timely and important
today: All the perplexities, confusions and
distresses in America arise, not from defects in the
Constitution or confederation, not from want of
honor or virtue, as much as from downright
ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and
circulation.

Real money, gold, endures as stable and trusted
currency, regardless of governments that rise and
fall, and economies that go through there natural,
moderate, non-manipulated cycles of economic
summer and economic winter. Politicians resist
gold-based money, because it strictly limits them,
and disciplines their lust for power and control,
along with their intimate banking friends. This
means that economies no longer remain in
balance, and ultimately, over-extended economic
summers, are followed by inevitable, and very
painful economic winters. All of this excess to
excess, is unnecessary, and would be avoidable, if
a gold standard money system were established
and honored, among the community of nations.

The brilliant Ludwig von Mises, of the Austrian
School of Economics put it this way: The
eminence of the gold standard consists in the fact
that it makes the determination of the monetary
unit's purchasing power independent of the
measures of governments. It wrests from the
hands of the economic czar their most
redoubtable instrument.. It makes it impossible for
them to inflate. That is why the gold standard is
furiously attacked by all those who expect they will
benefit by bounties from the seemingly
inexhaustible government purse. ( The truth and
wisdom from this master-teacher of true
economics, might help us better understand why
there has been so much media coverage of
reported central bank gold sales, the last year or
two. )

Now, the last several decades of mushrooming
credit-creation world-wide, has led to a debt-ridden
international economy with careening markets and
collapsing paper currencies. This debt-ridden,
artificially propped up, international economy is
symptomized by over-built real-estate, with grossly
inflated values. World-wide, property values are
beginning to feel the effects of spreading deflation.
The recent deflationary free-fall in Hong Kong
property values, will likely spread next to Japan
and China. The deflationary world economy is like
a Titanic, and their are never going to be enough
IMF buckets to bail her out.

Also symptomatic of this international economy
beginning to mire in debt and growing deflationary
momentum, is the overcapacity of industrial and
technological production. This has resulted from
first of all, a glut of easy credit for the asking, and
now, the world is not only awash in red-ink, but
also in a glut of goods and services that most
people don't want, and fewer and fewer can really
afford. These kinds of glaring symptoms are the
recipe for spreading, world-wide deflation, with
ominous implications. When desperate Asian
nations want to import new cars to sell here at half
last year's prices, the protectionism, trade barriers
and trade-wars will be looming right behind.

For lifeboats, we best look to the historical lessons
of gold: gold unassailable, real money, and gold as
a haven of capital preservation in times of
economic crisis and currency turmoil. We got
ourselves into this mess by allowing our
governments and special interests to divorce our
money from gold backing and convertibility. At one
time, our currency was originally as good as gold,
a virtual receipt for real money. It was even
printed, right there on each and every U.S. piece
of currency: payable to the bearer on demand in
gold. It's enough to make our grandparents
generation roll over in their graves.

Deflation happens to artificial currencies and credit
instruments at certain times, just as inflation does
at other times, because they can be controlled and
manipulated by the powers that be. Naturally
stable economies, based on real money, are
immune to inflation and deflation, and the powers
that be -- their hands are tied, by the immunity of,
and independence of gold. I have an early 1930s'
chart of HM overlaying the DJIA. In 1973, I was
giving economics seminars in the SF Bay Area
entitled: What Makes the U.S. Economy
Tick…and Why it is a Ticking Time-Bomb. The
economy's turned out to have a longer fuse than
I'd figured/surmised, at that time. But now, the fuse
is, indeed, running out. From early 1930 to 1932
Homestake Mining appreciated approximately
500% while the Dow was crashing in wave after
deflationary wave, wiping out the livelihoods and
fortunes of millions who never knew what hit
them……sort of the way growing numbers of
people are feeling in Asia. And the Asian
Contagion is spreading, regardless of our
self-absorbed, insular, wishful thinking.

Admittedly the U.S. government called in
( confiscated ) the American people's gold in the
early '30s - at the old price at about $20/oz.; and
then our President FDR 'pegged' it at $35/oz. He
was stuck between a rock and hard-place, and this
no doubt helped the HM price along its bull market
way. But I wouldn't wait for another confiscation, or
another FDR. The new baby bull market in gold is
here, now. And before its over, there's going to be
quite a stampede. All those mutual fund holders of
the '80s & '90s, will not be able to get out of the
same 'sell' door at the same time; it could get very
messy, interesting, but messy.

Ultimately, after the current painful cycle runs its
course, there will be a new dawn, and a new day.
The peoples of the nations of the world, their
governments and bankers included, will at last
return to the discipline and integrity of
gold-redeemable money, and gold-backed and
defined credit instruments. These will be the basic
monetary building-blocks, the life-giving
ingredients – like a healthy renewed, purified,
economic blood-stream -- that will be the basis for
the birthing, the foundation, the building, and
creatively flourishing of an economic world in a
new millennium – a millennium with a thriving world
economy, that will create, produce and flourish in a
cooperative international community, committed to
the dignity of the human soul, and the inherent
freedom of the human spirit; and, where all
peoples everywhere, will have an equal chance at
life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Ultimately, after the current painful but cleansing
cycle runs its course, there will be a new dawn,
and new day. The peoples of the nations of the
world, their governments and bankers included,
will at last return to the discipline and integrity of
gold-redeemable money, and gold-backed and
gold-defined credit instruments. These will be the
basic monetary building-blocks, the life-giving
ingredients -- like a healthy, renewed, purified
economic blood-stream -- that will be the
foundation for new and flourishing economies.
This will come, in a new millennium of economic
nation building, in which a thriving world economy
will create and produce enough for all peoples,
everywhere.

May all peoples, of every nation, creed and color,
have an equal opportunity to contribute; and enjoy
the fruits of their work, and their entrepreneurial
talents. May we all learn to live in a new world, in a
cooperative while yet competitive, international
community of nations, committed to the dignity of
the human soul, the inherent freedom of the
human spirit, and the sanctity of human life.

David Blair Macrory

2 February 1998


Back to Gold
Editorials



Copyright © 1997 & 1998 vronsky and westerman

Return to Kitco Homepage

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:33
goldfevr@pacbell.net (djavu) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:45
goldfevr@pacbell.net>goldfevr@pacbell.net ( a good reason for gold closing up ) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco>goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:38
goldfevr@pacbell.net ( when the tent collapses ) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I wish to review, define, and revise, a portion of my Sept. '97 post at Kitco ( with the rest, to

follow later. ) :

Here is a 're-copy' of portions -- part of my kitco.com posting, of 9/27/97:

When the 'tent' collapses

it will not be the 'center-post'

that goes first;...

The tent --
is the 'world-economy' - just as it is today. And just as it has evolved out of, and based on -
the post-Bretton Woods Agreements - that were contrived to create a 'new monetary &
credit world', based on political manipulation and control, decades ago. This international,
global-economy, is also based on, what might be referred to as U.S. dollar 'imperialism'.

U.S. dollar imperialism - can be defined as the international political decisions/agreements,
and institutions .. that evolved after World War II, to insure the manipulation, dominance, &
control, of & by - the U.S. dollar-&-credit-invested... central banks of the Western Powers.



The U.S. President's Aug. '71 decision to de-link/divorce the U.S. dollar from gold insured
the permanence of this domination & control of a U.S. dollar denominated & defined
world.

This pretended permanence, and temporary dominance, would reman in-tact -- until such
time as the international economy and community --
would demand otherwise. Their demands are building, slowly, but inevitably -- prodded
by/motivated by - the market forces of
reason, reality, and natural law. Thes are, ultimately, inspired by, and fueled by, the passion
& purpose of freedom-loving men
and women all over the world.

And it will ultimatley these men and women, through their
communication with one another, and thru their communities, organizations, institutions, and
local, state, and national governemnts
-- that will collectively -- demand otherwise --
that is -- a return TO THE BASIC, DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE OF
TRUTH & INTEGRITY in money and credit.

Ultimately, the powers that be, will have to accept, where their ultimate power resides - in
their people - even in, and especially in, the arenas of money, credit, economy, and
livelihood.

The positive momentum is builiding, for a move forward to
internatioanl monetary & credit agreements, that will allow the
nations of the world, an equal voice, in the determination
of a just, equitable standard of money and credit that the entire world will trust, agree to, and

live by.
Untill that time.....the 'tent' continues to collapse.

And so the 'tent' is collapsing, because it is not based on
universal integrity and truth, in this realm
of money and credit.

But first, before the 'tent' collapses; and even before the collapse of the 'center-post' --
which is the U.S. dollar, stock-markets, & economy;
...
there will be the early signs/symptoms...of this spreading world-wide monetary & credit
malaise, cancer, crisis, and contagion.

The early signs, will first be found in the
side-posts & stakes...
... of this faulty international monetary & credit economy.

These will/are collapsing now -- as they sacrifice themselves
first, to this misgudided and manipulated internatioanl moneary & credit system of U.S. dollar

dominance.

The nations of Southeast Asia, Asia, Africa, So. America, Russia,
Eastern Europe & the Balkans; are the side-posts and stakes
that are collapsing first, in this inevitable, inexorable,
international monetary & credit deflation, depression and collapse.

Objective, reasoned students of history and truth, will increasingly realize and conclude that -

the current, spreading, world-wide
monetary and credit crisis is rooted in a U.S. dollar defined
world.

Divorced from gold, this post World War II-emerging economy,
found it's 'foundation'in the political dominance, control,
expediency & self-interest, of the Western Powers - the major
political powers -- the U.S., Europe, and their principal
trading-partners, following World War II. This was a time when the idea that we could do
nothing wrong, triumphed.

Thus, we see before us, and experience, in our daily lives,
an evolving economic world -- that gives more and more evidence
that ...it is nothing more than..... a slowly - but inexorably -
... collapsing 'tent' of false moeny & credit. Rooted in the mistakes, misconceptions, and
manipulations od the past.

Money and credit today, was - for the most part - legislated
into existence, thru a fractional-reserve, centralized banking
system, that pretends to enginneer and control national and
international economies.... just as it pretends to
engineer, manage, and control ... millions & billions
of peoples' lives. !

These destructive myths are orchestrated thru established
institutions that pretend to control interest-rates, and
currencies' values.

We live 'asleep' - under the pretense that it is natural, appropriate, and socially/politically
necessary ( -expedient ) to create money
and credit out of thin air.

But the chickens are coming home to roost....in the midst of
these false premises and false beliefs... as perpetrated by the powers that be; and endorsed
by, or acquiesed by... the sheep being led to the slaughter.

If you think slaughter is too harsh a word: just ask yourself
.... :: )
How would I feel if my savings, retirement, and pay-check, were
just reduced to 1/5th of their yesterday's value and purchasing
power?.....!

Visit several of the Southeast Asian nations and they will tell
you. And they might even educate you to the fact that -
this crisis is not, ultimately due to their domestic governments'
corruption.....but ultimately, to corruption on a world-wide
scale of monetary & credit manipulation, control, and corruption.
...........

it will be the 'side-posts',

and even the 'stakes'.
.....
that collapse, and give-way, first.
The side-posts & stakes are the third-world & non-aligned
nations of the 'free world'. :: )

For, as 'Asian Tigers'

shake, shudder, & quake:

shedding their fur...

while they still feign to demure.

Just when a cold wind,

begins to blow in;

as 'indian-summer' - too long

holding on;

with wishful thinking, all a-long.

The markets can no longer avoid nor hide,

the Yuppie-Kingdom's crumbling, & cry;

as winter's clearing cold and rain,....
....
'give-way to the false-hopes of spring & summer rains'
..........

( to be continued )
...........

Return to Kitco Homepage

Return to Kitco Homepage

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:32
Auric (Gold on Viagra) ID#240288:

Kitco shows Gold up $4.60 at 296.50. Silver up .15.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:32
lenaxe (Strong closes for Gold & Silver today) ID#316209:
portend of better things to come in the PM sector. I really expected a weak day in light of the weakness in the Yen early this morning. However, after a slight drop early on, Gold & Silver rallied and remained strong even to the end of the day. I wouldn't be surprised if today turns out to be the beginning of a strong rally. Also, note that recent traders commitments for gold show the commercials have accumulated sizable positions again under $300. Check out Steven Kaplan's analysis for last Friday, June 5.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:31
Poorboys (Lawyers need the business) ID#227168:
AS more banks merge and control is in few hands it would be wise for Gold investors to make a will if they are Heart prone .If Gold heads to the 180 area –Many heart attacks will occur and the children and grandchildren would be less grieve stricken over the loss knowing you passed on the booty. NA now has over 4 million lawyers –Do yourself a favor call now before its too late ---Away to see the Golden Age

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:30
pyramid (ALL - Largest U.S. Earthquakes) ID#217268:
Copyright © 1998 pyramid/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The USGS / NEIC jointly published in 1992, a map showing the cumulative U.S. earthquakes from 1534-1991. This same map also lists the 63 largest U.S. earthquakes. That map is available as open-file report 92-327 from any good map store, titled: Earthquakes in the Conterminous United States. One could attempt to correlate these to planetary alignments using Solar System Live.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Solar

One could also attempt to correlate U.S earthquakes to U.S. underground nuclear explosions ( allowing for a lag factor ) .

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:26
lenaxe (Strong Closes for Gold & Silver today) ID#316209:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:14
Midwesterner (Anyone - Oil Discussion Group) ID#349232:
This is a great site for gold and silver, but does anyone know of a simular discussion group for oil drilling and/or exploration?

Not interested in particular companies, rather an overall site such as Kitco.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:11
SEQUIN (WHY POG SHOULD GO UP) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To give credibility to their fiat currency , we all agreed that CBs had a common interest in letting the POG drift to the 300$ area.

However , these leprechauns have no clue to the real world economy.

The mining sector can't stand for long a POG which cancels their profit potential without drastic mine closures.

The ride to 300$ has been enjoyed by hedge funds and trend followers without second thoughts.The effect is paradoxal as CBs now understand that they have engineered a short squeeze of biblical proportion.

To avoid mine closures , they need the POG to go back to the 340/360 area where most mines are still profitable.Then , they think that supply is not going to dry up.

But it is to late: the cumulated shorts run in the 8000 T .

Trailing stops will kick in around 325/340.

It will be fun to watch.

If a worldwide monetary crisis unfolds at the same time , it will be double fun.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:09
2BR02B? (@the inscrutable ratio) ID#266105:

$298.80 at USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/charts.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:07
Prometheus (@Dave) ID#210235:
Here's the information you're looking for:

http://www.un.org/ga/20special/

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:06
Silverbaron (SDRer @ Gold Franc) ID#289357:

Perhaps these separate Gold Francs are units of accounting, instead of actual gold coins - I believe the BIS uses Gold Francs as a unit of account ..... I wish you well in deciphering all this, hopefully without using too much ibuprofen. ( ;^ ) )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:01
Goldteck (WALDO (Stephane's Dow-Jones analysis from France in (ENGLISH))) ID#431200:
-
http://home.worldnet.fr/scdut/ANALYSE3.HTM
The translation is not guaranteed ANALYZE OF DOW-JONES
THE DOW-JONES IS DEVELOPING A SALE SIGNAL .
Dow-Jones is leaving his edge line ranging between 8900 and 9250 points. If Dow-Jones stays a few day below 8900 points this should indicate a sale signal, a first potential downward move to 8700 points would be a possibility. If this level is broken,Dow-Jones could collapse to level 8550 even to 8150 level.It should be noted that there is a very beautiful weekly divergence ( which is perfectly effective now ) between indicator MACD and Dow-Jones ( see graphics blue lines turquoises ) this shows that the american stock market is very fragile and there is a probability of a significant movement of correction. Only a return over 9000 level but especially to 9250 level would be positive for Wall street. The opinion is always prudent on the evolution of the American stock market for the mid-term.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 15:01
Dave (United Nations) ID#269207:
Has anybody heard what is going on with what the UN's role is going to be in search and seizure of drug money laundering amd excetera?

Meetings on this, to go on today through the 10th.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:59
Preacher (Wetgold) ID#225273:
No one has ever considered the possibility that R. Limbaugh is ANOTHER. But after what you wrote, I thought about it and have never seen them in a room together.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:57
SDRer__A (Silverbaron--elusive gold coins {:-)) ID#93127:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

IF the fxnet glossary made an error in their ‘definition’, it is—one would argue—the ‘wrong error! {:- ) ) Forex folk are not noted for their interest in collectible bullion coins…so, it is not more probable that they are referring to the Euro gold that we believe to be ‘decorative collectibles’? The Frf/Euro 24K that made its debut in Fayence, summer of 1997? Intriguing, yes?

If one believes that governments will be marched to a gold prison by the Princes of Davos, one begins to see a convoluted thread of logic to the BIS/GF, ISO/IBIS/XFO bit. And, remember that the ISO glossary defines the Gold Franc ( BIS variety ) as a SETTLEMENT CURRENCY ! That is the game, mon ami!
Working on the EC/gold contracts link—which is not publicly available. Wish me luck!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:57
chas (Sam re Swiss friend) ID#342315:
I have tried several Swiss sources without luck. Maybe he could do it. I would like to get a source to find the total current issue of Swiss gold francs. If he could find it, I'll contact it. May be a good sandwich in it!. Many thanx for your help. If this is not his forte- don't worry, I'll be no worse off, Charlie

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:55
Gollum (@rube) ID#43185:
Here's one possibility:
IMF'S FISCHER WARNS INTEREST RATE CUT IN INDONESIA MAY LEAD TO HYPERINFLATION.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:54
NJ (POG) ID#20748:
Bloomberg TV is showing POG at 296.95, up 5.30. The rise came after the Comex close.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:48
goldfevr@pacbell.net (another good reason for gold going up) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A Golden Cure for World-wide Deflation
Contagion

From Thomas Jefferson, in an address to his
fellow 'founding fathers' of the new nation:

Thomas Jefferson: If the American people ever
allow the banking system to control their money,
first by inflation, then by deflation; their children
will one day wake up homeless on the continent
their fathers conquered.

The world's financial and monetary systems may
be likened to a gigantic teetering circus-tent. An
when the tent finally collapses. It will not be the
center-post that goes first; it will be the side-posts;
and even the stakes.

The stakes are the Asian Tiger economies. The
side-posts are the most important trading
partners of the U.S. This includes the strategic
national economies of: Hong Kong/China, Japan,
Canada, Mexico, South America and Europe. The
center-post is the U.S. economy, including its
stock markets.

The tent is the world-economy, built on a
mountain of artificial money and credit, created out
of thin air, by a politically engineered and
dominated central banking system, that has
mastered the art of legalized counterfeiting. It has
taken generations, to perfect this art and master
this tune, that plays to the drum-beat of billions of
dollars of false wealth created per week.

Not too many years ago, it was against the law to
counterfeit money, including by governments or
banks.

And now what: Gold going up?…in the midst of
spreading Deflation? How can this be!

I've been visiting the Kitco site for about a year
now; and it is evident from the discussions there,
that most of us are still deluded by, and caught up
in, the artificial Santa-Clause Economy built on the
BIG LIE: money and credit created out of nothing.
This insures an over-extended, artificial, seemingly
benevolent economic summer that may last for
generations. All the while the masses
misperceptions grow, while the money-masters of
power, in the world, in control of interest rates, of
credit availability, and of the volume of money
flooding the world….they thus become economic
dictators in hiding….ruling over the ultimate value
of the money you earn, spend, invest, and save for
a 'rainy-day or retirement, or the kids'' education.

The world over central banks have evolved with
their governments blessings into a quiet, awesome
club of collusion and unbridled power. They hold
in their hands the destinies of nations, and the fate
of millions. Reginald McKenna, a 19th century
banker of England said: Give me control of a
nation's money, and I care not who makes the
laws.

It is, in fact, very natural, for gold to go up, as
deflation intensifies. Just as it is very natural for
gold to go up in inflationary times, as well. That is
because the inflation and deflation are happening
to the paper currency, the artificial money of the
realm. Inflation and deflation do not happen to
gold. And it is artificial, unbacked money and
credit, once it is spawned out across the world,
that ebbs and flows by the billions and trillions,
thus distorting and manipulating the economies of
the world's nations. Once this spreading cancer is
set in motion, the economies and countries grow
increasingly out of balance, and ultimately out of
control. And it almost always starts showing up in
an obvious way with with currency instability,
which was the root of the problem to begin with -
unreal currencies. Just ask the hundreds of
thousands of Asians who have just been laid off,
or reduced to 30% of their previous income, almost
overnight.

The ignorance, misconceptions and confusion
grow, because we seem to live in enduringly good
times. And the BIG LIE – that artificial money
created out of nothing is real money -- has had
generations of time to take root: in our institutions
of higher learning, in the board rooms of our most
brilliant corporations, at the family dinner table
discussions of what we studied in school today,
and in the not so noble halls of government offices
across our fair land. What we have failed to
understand, or have forgotten, is that the basic
standard, the unit of a nation's money -- the
medium of exchange and store of value -- is the
foundation of, and the fundamental building block,
upon which, a nation's entire economy is built. It is
essential for this unit, this standard of money, to
be freely, willingly , and universally acceptable
because it is stable, real, and can be trusted, by
any and every one.

Historically only gold money, or money and credit
units convertible to and backed by gold, have
endured as real money, immune to both inflation
and deflation. Gold is independent and free of
manipulation and control by any governmental
powers and special interests. John Adams' words
of 200 years ago are just as timely and important
today: All the perplexities, confusions and
distresses in America arise, not from defects in the
Constitution or confederation, not from want of
honor or virtue, as much as from downright
ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and
circulation.

Real money, gold, endures as stable and trusted
currency, regardless of governments that rise and
fall, and economies that go through there natural,
moderate, non-manipulated cycles of economic
summer and economic winter. Politicians resist
gold-based money, because it strictly limits them,
and disciplines their lust for power and control,
along with their intimate banking friends. This
means that economies no longer remain in
balance, and ultimately, over-extended economic
summers, are followed by inevitable, and very
painful economic winters. All of this excess to
excess, is unnecessary, and would be avoidable, if
a gold standard money system were established
and honored, among the community of nations.

The brilliant Ludwig von Mises, of the Austrian
School of Economics put it this way: The
eminence of the gold standard consists in the fact
that it makes the determination of the monetary
unit's purchasing power independent of the
measures of governments. It wrests from the
hands of the economic czar their most
redoubtable instrument.. It makes it impossible for
them to inflate. That is why the gold standard is
furiously attacked by all those who expect they will
benefit by bounties from the seemingly
inexhaustible government purse. ( The truth and
wisdom from this master-teacher of true
economics, might help us better understand why
there has been so much media coverage of
reported central bank gold sales, the last year or
two. )

Now, the last several decades of mushrooming
credit-creation world-wide, has led to a debt-ridden
international economy with careening markets and
collapsing paper currencies. This debt-ridden,
artificially propped up, international economy is
symptomized by over-built real-estate, with grossly
inflated values. World-wide, property values are
beginning to feel the effects of spreading deflation.
The recent deflationary free-fall in Hong Kong
property values, will likely spread next to Japan
and China. The deflationary world economy is like
a Titanic, and their are never going to be enough
IMF buckets to bail her out.

Also symptomatic of this international economy
beginning to mire in debt and growing deflationary
momentum, is the overcapacity of industrial and
technological production. This has resulted from
first of all, a glut of easy credit for the asking, and
now, the world is not only awash in red-ink, but
also in a glut of goods and services that most
people don't want, and fewer and fewer can really
afford. These kinds of glaring symptoms are the
recipe for spreading, world-wide deflation, with
ominous implications. When desperate Asian
nations want to import new cars to sell here at half
last year's prices, the protectionism, trade barriers
and trade-wars will be looming right behind.

For lifeboats, we best look to the historical lessons
of gold: gold unassailable, real money, and gold as
a haven of capital preservation in times of
economic crisis and currency turmoil. We got
ourselves into this mess by allowing our
governments and special interests to divorce our
money from gold backing and convertibility. At one
time, our currency was originally as good as gold,
a virtual receipt for real money. It was even
printed, right there on each and every U.S. piece
of currency: payable to the bearer on demand in
gold. It's enough to make our grandparents
generation roll over in their graves.

Deflation happens to artificial currencies and credit
instruments at certain times, just as inflation does
at other times, because they can be controlled and
manipulated by the powers that be. Naturally
stable economies, based on real money, are
immune to inflation and deflation, and the powers
that be -- their hands are tied, by the immunity of,
and independence of gold. I have an early 1930s'
chart of HM overlaying the DJIA. In 1973, I was
giving economics seminars in the SF Bay Area
entitled: What Makes the U.S. Economy
Tick…and Why it is a Ticking Time-Bomb. The
economy's turned out to have a longer fuse than
I'd figured/surmised, at that time. But now, the fuse
is, indeed, running out. From early 1930 to 1932
Homestake Mining appreciated approximately
500% while the Dow was crashing in wave after
deflationary wave, wiping out the livelihoods and
fortunes of millions who never knew what hit
them……sort of the way growing numbers of
people are feeling in Asia. And the Asian
Contagion is spreading, regardless of our
self-absorbed, insular, wishful thinking.

Admittedly the U.S. government called in
( confiscated ) the American people's gold in the
early '30s - at the old price at about $20/oz.; and
then our President FDR 'pegged' it at $35/oz. He
was stuck between a rock and hard-place, and this
no doubt helped the HM price along its bull market
way. But I wouldn't wait for another confiscation, or
another FDR. The new baby bull market in gold is
here, now. And before its over, there's going to be
quite a stampede. All those mutual fund holders of
the '80s & '90s, will not be able to get out of the
same 'sell' door at the same time; it could get very
messy, interesting, but messy.

Ultimately, after the current painful cycle runs its
course, there will be a new dawn, and a new day.
The peoples of the nations of the world, their
governments and bankers included, will at last
return to the discipline and integrity of
gold-redeemable money, and gold-backed and
defined credit instruments. These will be the basic
monetary building-blocks, the life-giving
ingredients – like a healthy renewed, purified,
economic blood-stream -- that will be the basis for
the birthing, the foundation, the building, and
creatively flourishing of an economic world in a
new millennium – a millennium with a thriving world
economy, that will create, produce and flourish in a
cooperative international community, committed to
the dignity of the human soul, and the inherent
freedom of the human spirit; and, where all
peoples everywhere, will have an equal chance at
life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Ultimately, after the current painful but cleansing
cycle runs its course, there will be a new dawn,
and new day. The peoples of the nations of the
world, their governments and bankers included,
will at last return to the discipline and integrity of
gold-redeemable money, and gold-backed and
gold-defined credit instruments. These will be the
basic monetary building-blocks, the life-giving
ingredients -- like a healthy, renewed, purified
economic blood-stream -- that will be the
foundation for new and flourishing economies.
This will come, in a new millennium of economic
nation building, in which a thriving world economy
will create and produce enough for all peoples,
everywhere.

May all peoples, of every nation, creed and color,
have an equal opportunity to contribute; and enjoy
the fruits of their work, and their entrepreneurial
talents. May we all learn to live in a new world, in a
cooperative while yet competitive, international
community of nations, committed to the dignity of
the human soul, the inherent freedom of the
human spirit, and the sanctity of human life.

David Blair Macrory

2 February 1998


Back to Gold
Editorials



Copyright © 1997 & 1998 vronsky and westerman

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:48
FOX-MAN__A (Closing Prices. July Silver @ 5.418(high 5.425) Aug Comex Gold closed) ID#288186:
@ 298.50 ( high 298.80 ) . Very good finish for a Monday. What happens
for the rest of the week? More of the same, we hope! Fox-Man

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:45
goldfevr@pacbell.net (a good reason for gold closing up) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:38
goldfevr@pacbell.net ( when the tent collapses ) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I wish to review, define, and revise, a portion of my Sept. '97 post at Kitco ( with the rest, to
follow later. ) :

Here is a 're-copy' of portions -- part of my kitco.com posting, of 9/27/97:

When the 'tent' collapses

it will not be the 'center-post'

that goes first;...

The tent --
is the 'world-economy' - just as it is today. And just as it has evolved out of, and based on -
the post-Bretton Woods Agreements - that were contrived to create a 'new monetary &
credit world', based on political manipulation and control, decades ago. This international,
global-economy, is also based on, what might be referred to as U.S. dollar 'imperialism'.

U.S. dollar imperialism - can be defined as the international political decisions/agreements,
and institutions .. that evolved after World War II, to insure the manipulation, dominance, &
control, of & by - the U.S. dollar-&-credit-invested... central banks of the Western Powers.


The U.S. President's Aug. '71 decision to de-link/divorce the U.S. dollar from gold insured
the permanence of this domination & control of a U.S. dollar denominated & defined
world.

This pretended permanence, and temporary dominance, would reman in-tact -- until such
time as the international economy and community --
would demand otherwise. Their demands are building, slowly, but inevitably -- prodded
by/motivated by - the market forces of
reason, reality, and natural law. Thes are, ultimately, inspired by, and fueled by, the passion
& purpose of freedom-loving men
and women all over the world.

And it will ultimatley these men and women, through their
communication with one another, and thru their communities, organizations, institutions, and
local, state, and national governemnts
-- that will collectively -- demand otherwise --
that is -- a return TO THE BASIC, DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE OF
TRUTH & INTEGRITY in money and credit.

Ultimately, the powers that be, will have to accept, where their ultimate power resides - in
their people - even in, and especially in, the arenas of money, credit, economy, and
livelihood.

The positive momentum is builiding, for a move forward to
internatioanl monetary & credit agreements, that will allow the
nations of the world, an equal voice, in the determination
of a just, equitable standard of money and credit that the entire world will trust, agree to, and
live by.
Untill that time.....the 'tent' continues to collapse.

And so the 'tent' is collapsing, because it is not based on
universal integrity and truth, in this realm
of money and credit.

But first, before the 'tent' collapses; and even before the collapse of the 'center-post' --
which is the U.S. dollar, stock-markets, & economy;
...
there will be the early signs/symptoms...of this spreading world-wide monetary & credit
malaise, cancer, crisis, and contagion.

The early signs, will first be found in the
side-posts & stakes...
... of this faulty international monetary & credit economy.

These will/are collapsing now -- as they sacrifice themselves
first, to this misgudided and manipulated internatioanl moneary & credit system of U.S. dollar
dominance.

The nations of Southeast Asia, Asia, Africa, So. America, Russia,
Eastern Europe & the Balkans; are the side-posts and stakes
that are collapsing first, in this inevitable, inexorable,
international monetary & credit deflation, depression and collapse.

Objective, reasoned students of history and truth, will increasingly realize and conclude that -
the current, spreading, world-wide
monetary and credit crisis is rooted in a U.S. dollar defined
world.

Divorced from gold, this post World War II-emerging economy,
found it's 'foundation'in the political dominance, control,
expediency & self-interest, of the Western Powers - the major
political powers -- the U.S., Europe, and their principal
trading-partners, following World War II. This was a time when the idea that we could do
nothing wrong, triumphed.

Thus, we see before us, and experience, in our daily lives,
an evolving economic world -- that gives more and more evidence
that ...it is nothing more than..... a slowly - but inexorably -
... collapsing 'tent' of false moeny & credit. Rooted in the mistakes, misconceptions, and
manipulations od the past.

Money and credit today, was - for the most part - legislated
into existence, thru a fractional-reserve, centralized banking
system, that pretends to enginneer and control national and
international economies.... just as it pretends to
engineer, manage, and control ... millions & billions
of peoples' lives. !

These destructive myths are orchestrated thru established
institutions that pretend to control interest-rates, and
currencies' values.

We live 'asleep' - under the pretense that it is natural, appropriate, and socially/politically
necessary ( -expedient ) to create money
and credit out of thin air.

But the chickens are coming home to roost....in the midst of
these false premises and false beliefs... as perpetrated by the powers that be; and endorsed
by, or acquiesed by... the sheep being led to the slaughter.

If you think slaughter is too harsh a word: just ask yourself
.... :: )
How would I feel if my savings, retirement, and pay-check, were
just reduced to 1/5th of their yesterday's value and purchasing
power?.....!

Visit several of the Southeast Asian nations and they will tell
you. And they might even educate you to the fact that -
this crisis is not, ultimately due to their domestic governments'
corruption.....but ultimately, to corruption on a world-wide
scale of monetary & credit manipulation, control, and corruption.
...........

it will be the 'side-posts',

and even the 'stakes'.
.....
that collapse, and give-way, first.
The side-posts & stakes are the third-world & non-aligned
nations of the 'free world'. :: )

For, as 'Asian Tigers'

shake, shudder, & quake:

shedding their fur...

while they still feign to demure.

Just when a cold wind,

begins to blow in;

as 'indian-summer' - too long

holding on;

with wishful thinking, all a-long.

The markets can no longer avoid nor hide,

the Yuppie-Kingdom's crumbling, & cry;

as winter's clearing cold and rain,....
....
'give-way to the false-hopes of spring & summer rains'
..........

( to be continued )
...........

Return to Kitco Homepage

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:42
ALBERICH__A (Year 2000 Time Bomb (from US NEWS)) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Quote:
Finally, there are the glitches that may lurk in the
estimated 3.3 billion microprocessors in the world
that run everything from microwave ovens to
hospital equipment to stabilizers on oil tankers.
Gartner Group Inc., a Stamford, Conn., consulting
firm that has studied the Y2K problem since the
late 1980s and supplies data on it to Congress and
industry, predicts as many as 50 million
microprocessors will experience Y2K-related
anomalies.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:40
rube (gold) ID#333127:
I've died and gone to heaven gold up to close over $3, anybody got a good reason

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:40
SEQUIN (@ all @ Gianni Dioro) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
MM 13:55: Most of you might know all there is to know about it . Still I advise to go there and have a good look again.

Gianni Dioro : I don't think we disagree on anything.I didn't mean to imply that the money supply was fixed in any way.The leading factors in money creation are bank loans and treasury bonds.Every day I wake up and think about the growing money circulating and its concentration in financials. And I buy more GOLD.
You are right to point out that it is true abroad as well but the fact that most IMF rescue packages and international debt are denominated in US $ exacerbates the problem for the $

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:38
goldfevr@pacbell.net (when the tent collapses) ID#434108:
Copyright © 1998 goldfevr@pacbell.net/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I wish to review, define, and revise, a portion of my Sept. '97 post at Kitco ( with the rest, to follow later. ) :

Here is a 're-copy' of portions -- part of my kitco.com posting, of 9/27/97:

When the 'tent' collapses

it will not be the 'center-post'

that goes first;...

The tent --
is the 'world-economy' - just as it is today. And just as it has evolved out of, and based on - the post-Bretton Woods Agreements - that were contrived to create a 'new monetary & credit world', based on political manipulation and control, decades ago. This international, global-economy, is also based on, what might be referred to as U.S. dollar 'imperialism'.

U.S. dollar imperialism - can be defined as the international political decisions/agreements, and institutions .. that evolved after World War II, to insure the manipulation, dominance, & control, of & by - the U.S. dollar-&-credit-invested... central banks of the Western Powers.

The U.S. President's Aug. '71 decision to de-link/divorce the U.S. dollar from gold insured the permanence of this domination & control of a U.S. dollar denominated & defined world.

This pretended permanence, and temporary dominance, would reman in-tact -- until such time as the international economy and community --
would demand otherwise. Their demands are building, slowly, but inevitably -- prodded by/motivated by - the market forces of
reason, reality, and natural law. Thes are, ultimately, inspired by, and fueled by, the passion & purpose of freedom-loving men
and women all over the world.

And it will ultimatley these men and women, through their
communication with one another, and thru their communities, organizations, institutions, and local, state, and national governemnts
-- that will collectively -- demand otherwise --
that is -- a return TO THE BASIC, DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLE OF
TRUTH & INTEGRITY in money and credit.

Ultimately, the powers that be, will have to accept, where their ultimate power resides - in their people - even in, and especially in, the arenas of money, credit, economy, and livelihood.

The positive momentum is builiding, for a move forward to
internatioanl monetary & credit agreements, that will allow the
nations of the world, an equal voice, in the determination
of a just, equitable standard of money and credit that the entire world will trust, agree to, and live by.
Untill that time.....the 'tent' continues to collapse.

And so the 'tent' is collapsing, because it is not based on
universal integrity and truth, in this realm
of money and credit.

But first, before the 'tent' collapses; and even before the collapse of the 'center-post' -- which is the U.S. dollar, stock-markets, & economy;
...
there will be the early signs/symptoms...of this spreading world-wide monetary & credit malaise, cancer, crisis, and contagion.

The early signs, will first be found in the
side-posts & stakes...
... of this faulty international monetary & credit economy.

These will/are collapsing now -- as they sacrifice themselves
first, to this misgudided and manipulated internatioanl moneary & credit system of U.S. dollar dominance.

The nations of Southeast Asia, Asia, Africa, So. America, Russia,
Eastern Europe & the Balkans; are the side-posts and stakes
that are collapsing first, in this inevitable, inexorable,
international monetary & credit deflation, depression and collapse.

Objective, reasoned students of history and truth, will increasingly realize and conclude that - the current, spreading, world-wide
monetary and credit crisis is rooted in a U.S. dollar defined
world.

Divorced from gold, this post World War II-emerging economy,
found it's 'foundation'in the political dominance, control,
expediency & self-interest, of the Western Powers - the major
political powers -- the U.S., Europe, and their principal
trading-partners, following World War II. This was a time when the idea that we could do nothing wrong, triumphed.

Thus, we see before us, and experience, in our daily lives,
an evolving economic world -- that gives more and more evidence
that ...it is nothing more than..... a slowly - but inexorably -
... collapsing 'tent' of false moeny & credit. Rooted in the mistakes, misconceptions, and manipulations od the past.

Money and credit today, was - for the most part - legislated
into existence, thru a fractional-reserve, centralized banking
system, that pretends to enginneer and control national and
international economies.... just as it pretends to
engineer, manage, and control ... millions & billions
of peoples' lives. !

These destructive myths are orchestrated thru established
institutions that pretend to control interest-rates, and
currencies' values.

We live 'asleep' - under the pretense that it is natural, appropriate, and socially/politically necessary ( -expedient ) to create money
and credit out of thin air.

But the chickens are coming home to roost....in the midst of
these false premises and false beliefs... as perpetrated by the powers that be; and endorsed by, or acquiesed by... the sheep being led to the slaughter.

If you think slaughter is too harsh a word: just ask yourself
.... :: )
How would I feel if my savings, retirement, and pay-check, were
just reduced to 1/5th of their yesterday's value and purchasing
power?.....!

Visit several of the Southeast Asian nations and they will tell
you. And they might even educate you to the fact that -
this crisis is not, ultimately due to their domestic governments'
corruption.....but ultimately, to corruption on a world-wide
scale of monetary & credit manipulation, control, and corruption.
...........

it will be the 'side-posts',

and even the 'stakes'.
.....
that collapse, and give-way, first.
The side-posts & stakes are the third-world & non-aligned
nations of the 'free world'. :: )

For, as 'Asian Tigers'

shake, shudder, & quake:

shedding their fur...

while they still feign to demure.

Just when a cold wind,

begins to blow in;

as 'indian-summer' - too long

holding on;

with wishful thinking, all a-long.

The markets can no longer avoid nor hide,

the Yuppie-Kingdom's crumbling, & cry;

as winter's clearing cold and rain,....
....
'give-way to the false-hopes of spring & summer rains'
..........

( to be continued )
...........

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:38
sam__A (chas re francs) ID#286253:

I can't find the original post-- refresh? As mentioned, my informant is just my deli guy but I would be more than happy to forward any question to him. He has actually gone back to Switzerland for a couple of weeks. I shall de brief him when he gets back.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:32
Silverbaron (HenryD @ physical PMs) ID#289357:

I can't give you any advice on what you should do, but after making my maximum allocation to the PM mining stocks, I started again accumulating PM ( physical ) with discretionary income, just has you have.

I'm just buying the stuff in about a constant dollar amount monthly, and sticking it back without concern about the short-term POG.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:27
WetGold (on Limbaugh's program 2-3 minutes ago he said that economy is hinged on) ID#187218:
the price of oil ---- if the price of oil goes up ---- you'll see people getting out the market ,,,, and buying GOLD ,,,,,,,
,,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:26
chas (Sam re Swiss Francs) ID#342315:
Do you think your Swiss informant could relay how to find the issue of Swiss Francs? Many thanx, Charlie

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:25
Silverbaron (SDRer @ Gold Francs) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Several Gold Franc-denominated coins WERE minted.......notably France 20, 40, 100 Francs, Switzerland 20 Francs, Belgium 20 Francs ( perhaps there are others ) . The only one I am aware of that was minted past the time of World War I is the Swiss Gold Franc 'Helvetia' coin, which was offically minted until 1949.

Perhaps this definition you are referencing is an old one, unless someone is making restrike coins with the old dates.

New gold coins from the European countries are minted as bullion coins along the Troy ounce standard ( and fractional ounces ) such as Austrian Philharmonic, UK Britannia, Switzerland 'New' Helvetia, etc. - there are not any minted in terms of Gold Francs that I am aware of.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:18
sam__A (Swiss Sales) ID#286253:
Copyright © 1998 sam__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Re Vronsky: So, why have the Gnomes of Zurich announced the sale of their gold - which has been the stabilizing keel of the Swiss Franc on the turbulent FOREX waters for nearly two centuries?

I spoke to my Swiss informant ( i.e. my local deli guy ) about this. The gold sales are being peddled as a way to devalue the franc - people are getting killed with the current FX rates; even my informant doesn't by Swiss anymore. The irony here is wonderful: Sell gold A. Because it is a non-performing asset whose value is heading south and B. Because it is so valuable it artifically keeps the Swiss Franc at uncompetitive levels. Go figure, eh?

That having been said, my informant tells me it is tough to get a referendum passed - you need 50% of the population and 50% of the cantons. The sticking point may be the smaller cantons, those w/ approx. 100,000 backwoods type folk who take pleasure out of telling Zurich where to go. Sort of like Newfoundland in the Meech lake accord ( for those Canadians out there. )

On a related note: If the Swiss want to devalue, why don't they just announce that they will buy gold at $0.50 above the London fix and pay for it w/ printed francs? You get your francs out there and you get to increase your gold position. Oh - imagine the fireworks.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:10
Gianni Dioro__A (Séquin, Money Supply is Not Fixed) ID#384350:
-
If the money supply were fixed by the global supply of Silver or Gold, then the unwinding of Fractional Reserve Banking would show severe deflation, triggering bank runs, banks calling in their loans, loan defaults, distress sales, dropping demand, lower prices.

However with checkbook banking based on fractional reserves AND a intrinsically worthless Fiat currency, the Govt can borrow as much as it wants and never has to pay it back. This is of course inflationary ( As new money is created out of thin air ) , and it could lead to loss of confidence in paper currency where people would run into anything tangible, fleeing from the intrinsically worthless Fiat currency as quickly as possible.

So what would happen if the economy sours, stocks crash, loans are called, real estate crashes, govt tax receipts plummet, govt expenditures explode as everyone is now dependent? Are people going to be kicked out of their houses, because they can't pay their mortgage? Are Banks going to become insolvent, the Fed holding them up until they are forced to merge the weakest into the not as weak? Will we see a $5-10 Trillion bail out of the banking industry? Will USG borrow money to pay off loans? Will a parisite Central Bank forgive the debt owed to it by its Host govt? Can it do this without the people realising the fraud that has been going on and demanding the arrest and prosecutinon of Alan Greenspan, the Rockefellers, Rothschilds etc in prison?

Also, don't think that this situation is exclusive to the US; nearly every country in the world practices this horrendous, immoral, usury-based banking.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:07
HenryD (Your advice humbly requested...) ID#36156:
A few months ago I started augmenting my PM stocks with physical ( Gold and Silver ) using discretionary income. My question is this: should I accumulate physical as a percentage of my mining stocks, or just treat them as separate and unrelated investments?

I understand that diversifying DOW/NASDAQ stocks with PM's is a prudent thing, but does the same rule apply within a common category: PM's?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 14:02
SEQUIN (@ MM THANKS .WILL DIG) ID#25171:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:55
MM (SEQUIN - Text might be in here somewhere...) ID#350179:
Roosevelt & Gold Confiscation
http://www.techmgmt.com/restore/execor.htm
http://www.wolf1.com/let005.htm
http://www.fame.org/research/library/hmh-001.htm

Gold Transactions in the Second World War
http://www.eda-tf.ethz.ch/topics/top38_e.htm

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:46
aurophile (More TA) ID#256326:
The other bit of TA I posted this weekend ( I can't read everything so I assume others don't, so forgive if you already saw this. ) : June 1 ended a five wave structure ( Elliott ) down from April 6. There is no way yet to know whether this was the terminal C wave of a correction from the January 29 highs OR the first leg down in a new bear move. If the latter, we probably don't go higher than $301-308 basis GCQ8. Going above $312.50 probably would mean this really IS a bull market. Again, all this IMNSHO.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:44
FOX-MAN__A (Current Prices. July Comex Silver @ 5.385(high 5.415) August Comex) ID#288186:
Gold @ 297.20 ( high 298.00 ) . This looks good so far. Fox-Man

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:39
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:
XAU up nicely today, but volume generally modest. Encouraging action, but probably not yet the start of something big.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:30
aurophile (ooooooooooops) ID#256326:
make that CArolan segment 1910 days or F19 in his lingo.........

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:28
aurophile (Time Segment Analysis) ID#256326:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I posted here ( yesterday? ) and published elsewere ( in December ) that 6/3/98 +/- 1-2 days could be an important gold date. The technique is based on work that W.D.Gann did and which was updated and partially developed by Chris Carolan. Without getting into the details, it involves adding certain calendar day segment lengths to significant past dates ( or subtracting them from future dates ) to find probable turn dates. the segment length series include the Fibonacci series, the Lucas Series, series C, Spiral Calendar ( TM ) series and some fixed Gann numbers. ( Multiples of some of these may also be used, as in the Nature's Pulse program and Robert Miner's Dynamic Trader among others. I do it mechanically with an Excel spreadsheet or two. )
Like everything else in price analysis it sure isn't 100%, but it's far better than a coin toss. I haven't the foggiest why it should work at all, but it does.

In any event, 6/3/98 was a Carolan Spiral calendar 1920 days from 3/11/93, the takeoff day for gold. All this merely FYI and FWIW.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:26
chas (SDRer & Silverbaron- Swiss Franc) ID#342315:
In that glossary, there seems to an implication that there is a distinction between ( or among ) the Swiss Gold Franc, gold franc and maybe another franc. I have been trying to find out the total current issue of the Swiss Gold Franc-period. Contacted BIS, SNB and 2 Swiss brokers. No results. Maybe my name doesn't carry enough weight. I'm only 1340#. Any ideas? Charlie

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:25
SDRer__A (Past as prologue?) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Table 2. The Six Largest Groupings of Japanese Companies
( Only main companies are listed )
Unofficial name/Presidential conference name/NumberCompanies affiliated/Names of Companies affiliated
#1-- Mitsui Group/Nikikai/24 companies/Sakura, Mitsui Trust, Mitsui Life Insurance, Taisho Marine & Fire Insurance, Mitsui Products, Mitsukoshi, MITSUI MINING, Mitsui Construction, Sanki Industries, Nippon Flour Mills, Oji Paper Mfg., Mitsui Toatsu, Mitsui Petrochemicals, Toray, Onoda Cement, Nippon Steel, MITSUI METAL MINING, Toshiba, TOYOTA MOTOR, Mitsui Shipbuilding, Mitsui Real Estate, Mitsui O.S.K. Lines, Mitsui Warehouse.

Source: Koukou Jiyu-Jizai,Gendai Shakai ( Social Studies ) , Juken-Kenkyu-sha, l988

+

…the primary unit was the gold yen..The mint having achieved full operation, the old coinage had to be removed from circulation to provide specie. Rather then buy it with more inconvertible notes, THE GOVERNMENT ASKED THE WELL-KNOWN AND WEALTHY MITSUI COMPANY TO ISSUE NOTES BEARING THE NAMES OF BOTH MITSUI AND THE IMPERIAL TREASURY. MITSUI BORE ALL THE EXPENSES OF THE ISSUE AND WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR REDEMPTION, BUT RETAINED 20% OF THE ISSUE AS COMPENSATION.
http://www.money.org/bolingexhibit.html

A great deal of very old money there...and money gets to be 'old' for
a number of sound reasons...
bbml

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:23
J (WetGold: Mining Costs) ID#174239:
Copyright © 1998 J/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A friend of mine, knowing my interest in precious metals, clipped the article out of one of his business magazines. I now regret throwing it away after reading it. This came out in Mid January as everyone was wondering how low the price of gold could go. The assumption was that it could not go below the cost of manufacture since mines would start closing, which would reduce supply, which would reverse the price drop.

At the time I remember that both in the media and here on Kitco I saw several people quote average world production costs to be around $280/oz.
I think the issue gets confused because the dollar is stronger against other currencies. If your paying local miners in the local currency, which falls against the dollar, then in terms of dollars doesn’t your operating costs go down? However you are now getting fewer dollars for the gold you just paid less to mine. So, your paying less per ounce to mine it, but not seeing an increase in profits since your also selling it for less ( at least if your selling it for dollars ) .

How long can a company run a mine at $300/oz if they can't sell it for more than that?

I guess in the long run I'm really not interested in how much it costs to run any particular mine at any particular time. The modern trend is to use constantly improving technology to produce more with less! I think this rule now applies to almost every industry except law.



Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:21
vronsky (Why Did the SWISS Announce the Sale of Their Gold?) ID#426220:

So, why have the Gnomes of Zurich announced the sale of their gold -
which has been the stabilizing keel of the Swiss Franc on the turbulent FOREX waters for nearly two centuries?

It will be necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/vronsky060898.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:04
HenryD ([psssssssttt]) ID#36156:
{PM's are up ... don't anybody move ... shhhhhhhhh.. )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:02
rube (atwork) ID#333127:
Everything is green, to good to be true. I can't bring myself to believe gold will close up by $3.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 13:01
SDRer__A (Silverbaron--as the resident SuperSleuth, what do you make of this?) ID#290172:
From the FX glossary-

Gold Franc-Several gold francs are minted. The Swiss gold franc is used in BIS's balance sheet. The value of these Francs is now expressed in terms of SDRs.

Please note the FIRST sentence, several gold francs ARE minted. Mmmmmm…
http://www.fxfxnet.com/members/fx/g.htm

Reference to Fayence? Reference to the Euro 75 24K? And it declares several...are minted.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:56
SDRer__A (Harbinger ? Came upon this in doing DD...rather liked it! {:-))) ID#290172:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Norwest holds Baker to the `gold standard'
Peter Kafka Staff Reporter

Sure, Minneapolis real estate is getting pricey again. But worth its weight in gold?

Just about, says Norwest Bank. It's demanding 3,870 troy ounces of the shiny stuff, or its equivalent in dollars -- a little less than $1.5 million -- for a patch of downtown dirt.

Absolutely not, says Ed Baker. The Minneapolis architect and developer says the same parcel is worth $80,000.
http://search.amcity.com/twincities/stories/101496/story2.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:54
SEQUIN (A FEW QUESTIONS ) ID#25171:
-
First , a technical point.If july SILVER breaks 5.54 we will have a confirmation of the end of an ABC wave correction with the break of the A point.

This would mean that we are entering a wave 1 of the THIRD Wave of a bull market.

My understanding of the US banking system is as follows: Banks have the ability to create money via the reserve requirement system.If you deposit 100 $ in a bank , ( 100 $ being our initial money supply ) then the bank can lend say 90 $ to another entity ( new money supply is 190$ ) keeping the 10 for reserve requirements ( which is supposed to rein in money supply growth ) .

Now the borrowing entity will buy goods or deposit the money in the same or another bank.The later will be able to lend 81 $ ( money supply is at 271 $ ) ...

Now the money that economic units have at their disposal to start that process consists of circulating money supply plus the one created by bond issues to pay government expenses. With the current economic boom ( lots of lending ) and the huge outstandig government debt no wonder that the money supply is quickly growing and at a pace disconnected with the real growth of the economy namely the GDP.

If the growth in money supply was related to business investments there would be no problem ( at least not as much ) but most of the money is diverted in non productive investments ( stocks, bonds and esoteric financial speculation ) .The game might work as long as financial investments perform better than the cost of borrowing.

The question is what will bring the demise of the current paradigm?

If excess capital is continuously created and diverted into financial products to the extent that there is no or small inflation in consumer goods the pyramid scheme will blow in one of the following 2 scenarios ,which in fact are connected: deflation of financial assets to the extent that the debt accumulated to enter the game can't be repaid or negative growth wich would make company default and would as well shock the stock market.

What will happen then? The FED is likely to loosen its monetary policy. ( which it did in 1987 and it worked fine )

This time however the pile of debt is not comparable to what it was then and a Japanese scenario is likely to develop in the US.

Thus any deflation would be short lived.The system can't afford deflation and will have to inflate no matter what.

BUY GOLD

Does anybody have the text of FDR 's recall of GOLD?

Does anybody knows what is exactly and precisely the capital structure of the FED?

THANKS


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:52
Gusto Oro (Squirrel 11:59) ID#377235:
Yes, the mainstream media along with a clownish assortment of sycophant liberal followers excoriate survivalists. Probably because the latter come across larger than life and former simply don't have much of a life, period. --AG

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:52
DEJ (Another spelling correction.) ID#269191:
That should be it's, not its. I'm having a bad day.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:51
DEJ (spelling correction.) ID#269191:
That should be hear, not here. I know better than that.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:50
DEJ (Aurophile) ID#269191:
If we here that one of the Rothchilds was involved in a plane crash, then
its quite possible.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:49
NJ (D.A.) ID#20748:
Are we there yet.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:43
Argent (I don't believe it ...) ID#255217:
Wonders never cease. The PM's are headed UP! RIGHT NOW! But will they hold?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:42
Crystal Ball (@Alberich) ID#287367:
Copyright © 1998 Crystal Ball/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Pork bellies are not always cheaper than hogs. I can remember several summers when July & August pork bellies hit $100/hundredweight. When spread margin requirements were significantly lower than those for outright positions, these were good times to be long the August and short the Feb bellies. At times, that particular spread can be even more volatile than an outright position ( sometimes Aug goes up limit while Feb goes down limit ) Yee-hah! The TED spread ( buy Dec '99 TBills, sell Dec '99 EuroDollars ) has alot of potential with very low margin requirement.
The above is not investment advice. It is strictly for amusement :- )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:40
aurophile (Retired Soldier/DEJ) ID#256326:
RS: I'm inclined to agree with you. The mouth of the South must have forgotten to take his lithium this month.
DEJ: Curiously, I was in Vienna last week and read of the probable merger of Creditanstalt with another bank. I wonder if they could cause a meltdown twice in one century?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:32
WALDO (GOLDTECK`S ---- Stephane`s analysis..........) ID#242135:

Thanks for the great translation Goldteck, I would be very interested in his Dow Jones analysis!!!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:28
WetGold (J ,,,,, do you remember where U had read this ,,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
I remember reading sometime in 1997 that S.A. were very inefficient ( compare with N. America ) and costs approx. $300 to mine an ounce. In 1997 when POG was dipping from its perch - there was concern over mine closures as the POG was approaching $300 ,,,, who's correct on this one.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:23
DEJ (Banks and economic collapse.) ID#270236:
Looking back at the history of the last depression, I think you'll
find that the economic contraction that started in 1929 was nothing
more than a garden variety recession until the Credit Anstalt collapsed
in 1931. That event precipitated the banking collapse in England and
the U.S. and turned a garden variety recession into a global depression.

The banks are the entities to watch.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:23
WetGold (NightWriter ,,,,,,,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
Here's hoping that today is the day the POG plummett so that I can get a coupla' dozen more ,,,, tomorrow; POG below $200 US - 100+ more ,,,, POG below $100 US - 200+ more pieces ,,, ad inifitum ,,,, mortgage my house and get some more ,,,, work more and get more ,,,, borrow and get more ,,,, sell big house, get smaller house ,,, get more ,,,, cash in kids money - get more ,,, send kids to public school - get more ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, NOW --- POG to skyrocket ,,, sell 10 pieces to payoff debt ,,,,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:20
chas (Silverbaron re Mike Lee stuff) ID#342315:
I went back and checked some- he hit the big quake in Chile pretty good. Going to have keep closer watch. There's some stuff around Brevard coming up next few years!! Thanx again for URL, Charlie

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:20
J (Improved Mining Effeicency?) ID#174239:
Copyright © 1998 J/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have been pondering a couple of related concepts lately:

1. I read an article a few months ago that I roughly said that most of the worlds mines produce gold at about $300/oz, North American mines are over $200/oz, and the newest South American mines produce gold at over $100/oz. The gist was that the newer the mine, the better the technology and therefore the higher the yield.

2. It appears to me that in modern history food and oil supplies have increased as demand has increased ( looking at trends that correct for inflation ) . This is opposite to what I was taught in economics classes. It seems that in a drive to become more price competitive while increasing profits, corporations much produce more with less. This is done with economies of scale, higher tech equipment, etc.

I know very little about these industries, but as an outsider looking at the bigger picture, the price of metals should continue to decline.

Of course this general downward trend will take decades, with plenty of swings along the way. If a clever person can buy the dips and sell the peaks, they can get rich despite the overall decline trend.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:15
WetGold (sorry ,,,, this is regarding Gold and Silver Stocks ,,,) ID#187218:


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:14
WetGold (Cliff Droke's Leading Indicators ,,, 01 June 1998 ,,,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
... Leading Indicators is no longer recommending investments in this highly speculative and volatile sector, especially in consideration of recent depressed precious metals prices and high potential of a stock market collapse in the near future ...
,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:14
NightWriter (@lenaxe et al) ID#390415:
Here's hoping that the big pre-Y2k run in the gold bullion price is starting soon, maybe today.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:12
RETIRED SOLDIER (@ Squirrell) ID#347235:
Copyright © 1998 RETIRED SOLDIER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I just read the stoy about the nerve gas on Communist News Network on line, several things 1. Peter Arnett is a communist sympathiser ( remember he was against every thing we have done from Korea to Desert Storm ) , 2. I was in Kontum during this period, In the major HQs for a good portion of this time and had many friends in the SOG group, used to drink and run around with them told war stories with them, they trusted me, NONE of them ever mentioned any thing like this. I flew airmobile missions every other day to photograph operations and never saw anything like this.. 3. CNN/Time are largely controled by a man dumb enough to marry Hanoi Jane, so how believable do you think they are? NADA, ZILCH Nicht!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:09
robnoel__A (Hey come on guys,do you really buy that hit piece on the JANE FONDA NETWORK,its BS to cover Bills ) ID#410198:
sorry butt,please don't fall for this,I do however know of Americans gassed in America,no one wants to talk about,they were not even military they were CHILDREN,does WACO ring a bell

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:04
D.A. (important.levels) ID#7568:
All:

A break above 5.35 cash silver, and 294 cash gold will lead to some strong buying. With the other white metals creeping higher it looks like the pressure is starting to build against the shorts.

Away to dream discrete quantum dreams.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 12:03
Donald (Some interesting Dow/Gold lore) ID#26793:
The Friday close gave a new D/G high that was 4 ounces above the 233 day moving average. Here is the interesting part; the new high on March 20th was 6 ounces above the 233 M/A and the new high on July 22, 1997, was 7 ounces above the 233 M/A. Each of these new highs is less convincing.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:59
Squirrel (re Nerve Gas, Survivalists and Gold Bugs) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So they use nerve gas on our own people.
So what else is new? You can bet they tested that gas in the intermountain west {Nevada, NM, AZ, ID}. They tested hallucinagens and other goodies on military personnel and civilian prisoners. While knowing what that radiation was damn hazardous they marched our troops through ground zero of atomic bomb test sites. They had naval personnel downwind of atomic bomb tests. If they did vivisection on our own people to for research into torture - I would not be surprised. What is the most disturbing is that we find none of this surprising.

RE SURVIVALISTs and the manhunt. Governor Romer and other government and law enforcement types and the media keep using the terms militia and survivalist to describe these fugitives. Neither applies. Especially the term survivalist applies to those who stockpile supplies and keep a low profile. The LAST THING A SURVIVALIST WANTS TO DO IS DRAW ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES! But again the government and media are using this event to continue the campaign to convince the public that all militia members, survivalists, and anyone who hoards ammo, food, supplies, GOLD etc. are enemies of society and must be hunted down. You can bet your sweet bippy there will come a time soon when some GOLD BUG goes off the deep end and they will use his or her behavior to vilify FANATIC GOLD BUGS and GOLD HOARDING. Will they use nerve gas to get those survivalists? If they can do it without witnesses - you can bet your butt! Will they use it on fanatic hoarders of GOLD who are vilified as public enemies - same bet!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:58
RETIRED SOLDIER (JTF) ID#347235:
Only missing Russian Sub I know of is in a Tom Clancy movie! ( Recently that is ) . Who ever posted about the serin use in Nam, I think Time/CNN Jane Fonda News organization is still exercising the Erection they have had for the Military for the last 30 years. I spent enuogh time in Viet Nam and close to higher HQs in the Army for enough time to not believe this, it seems to be yet some more Klinton/Fonda/Turner BS

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:58
Goldteck (Stephane's gold analysis from France in (ENGLISH)) ID#431200:
-




http://home.worldnet.fr/scdut/ANALYSE.HTM>http://home.worldnet.fr/scdut/ANALYSE.HTM
Stephane's gold analysis from France
I have translated to the best of my knowledge but the translation is not
guaranteed. ANALYZE OUNCE Of GOLD IT WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT TO WATCH LEVEL 287,5$ AND 300$ POG confirmed this week the rupture of its strong level of support located at 298-300$. Gold established a lower level at 288$ before
moving up again a few dollars. Gold could even return to test from the
bottom level 298-300$ before having a new weakness. The two very important levels to watch will be: #1 ) Level- 287,50$: it is indeed on this level which passes the lower weekly band of Bollinger . A move beyond the bottom
of this band would be in my opinion rather negative because we would have again a strong volatility with a downward move It could find its new
support at level 278-280$ ( low of the year ) but could just have a
sufficient powerful downward move to break this ultimate support ( with
downward objectives to 250$ ) . SCENARIO II would be then possible # 2 ) Level- 300$: an upward crossing of this level ( becoming now a strong resistance to the rise ) would validate according to my opinion SCENARIO I, this would be in my opinion very bullish. POG could move up again with upward resistance at levels 306$, 314$, 325$, 340$. Now neutral opinion, I advise you to intervene via the gold shares only if one of the two levels is crossed. Be careful and do not seek to guess a possible low, wait until the graphic configuration improves to return to do some purchases . I think that always the two following scenarios of Elliot waves should be privileged ( to facilitate the comprehension of these analyses, look at the second graph below ) : #3 ) SCENARIO I: SHORT-TERM BEARISH, MID- TERM BULLISH, BUT LONG-TERM BEARISH the ounce of gold is going through an upward technical correction of a downward movement in five times ( 415$-278$ ) which took place between the beginning of 1996 and the beginning of 1998. This technical correction should last between 9 months and 2 years. It will take the form of WAVE A, B, C ( see graph-color of identical waves on the graph to facilitate the location ) . WAVE A should be finished and should have broken up into three sub-waves a1, b1, c1 ( 278$-314$ ) . WAVE B is presently going and sub-wave a2
( 314$-295$ ) should be finished, and so wave b2 ( 298-303$ ) . Sub-wave c2 is presently going with downward objectives located between 280-290$. The end of this sub-wave will bring an end to WAVE B. WAVE C will have to break up into three sub-waves a3, b3, c3 ( even in five ) ( not shown on the graph ) . The upward trend of this wave will be at least 315$ and could reach a level up to 340$ if this wave have an extension. After gold could move again in a bearish movement in five times with objectives of fall on 280$ or even lower. #4 ) SCENARIO II: VERY BEARISH MID- TERM gold should have carried out a technical upward correction of the downward movement in five times ( 415$-278$ ) which took place between the beginning of 1996 and the beginning of 1998, limited only to sub-waves a1 , b1, c1. This upward correction of 1/4 of the great downward movement should be finished. A new fall in five times should take place with aims quite lower than 280$. This wave in five times breaks up like this: Wave 1: 314$-298$ is 16$ Wave 2: 298$-303$ is 5$ ( 1/3 of correction ) Wave 3: 303$-280$ ( if downward extension of 1.618 ( of wave 1 ) or 303$-260$ ( if downward extension of 2.68 ( of wave 1 ) Wave 4: to come Wave 5: to come
    




http://home.worldnet.fr/scdut/ANALYSE.HTM


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:55
xau5 (YEN and Gold) ID#210163:
Copyright © 1998 xau5/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
With gold up and the yen down this is a mans bites dog story lately. This means maybe intervention in the currency markets is going to occur. It would be nice to see copper go up as well. By the way DA your analysis of about 6 months ago that the debtors in Asia would not be forced to liquidate their businesses seems to be accurate. By getting
new loans and government money paid to the banks it appears the massive deflation caused by forced selling is not occuring. I know the CRB is at new lows but it is the closing of real companies ( not banks ) that is the thing I worry about.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:49
Poorboys (The rabble atheistic welfare bums ate the profit ) ID#227168:
Strange ---Not much talk on SA stocks lately –Away to find the next promo --Still like those names like droopy and rangy- pbreadingthecomicspage

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:42
WetGold (Numismatics in IRAs and 401(k) plans ,,,,,,) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
How long before it's passed ,,,, http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c105:./temp/~c1051Q5u6J ,,,,,
,,,,,,
,
1.,, Does anyone think the public will move paper assets from the aforementioned accounts and utilize this proposed provision on the IRS code ?
,
2.,, If affirmative -- will it affect the market ,, IF ,, as we are told ,, the market being so thin ,,, prices would skyrocket ,,, if this is true ,,, would it be a bubble ,,,,, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
,
3.,, Is it a good idea to place numismatics into gubmint controlled vehicles ---- perhaps ---- opening the door to confiscation -----
,
,
TIA for any analysis ,,,,,

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:41
rube (test) ID#333127:
test

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:22
themissinglink (Nerve gas in Vietnam) ID#373403:
I am in shock that our army actively used nerve gas on SUSPECTED defectors. I bet if they killed 2 defectors and found another fifty POW's in shackles in the basement they would not admit it.

So if you are a concientous objector and flee to England, you can become president, but if you object once you get to Vietnam you get the death penalty? Then as president you hand over technology to ideological enemies and your approval rating skyrockets?

I hope those responsible in the military pay for this outrage!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 11:17
ALBERICH__A (Gold versus Pork Bellies) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I always access CBS Market Watch Future Contracts to find the current price for Gold and Silver. As you can see from the copy of the CBS chart below, Pork Bellies are listed just above Gold. I noticed since more than half a year high price volatility for Pork Bellies. Why are they always lower than Hogs?
A few weeks ago Pork Bellies were at 47.xxx. Now they are back at 60.350. Almost wanted to buy a call two weeks ago. But I don't understand the Pork Bellies and Hogs markets.
I'd like to take adavantage of the extremely high volatility of the pork bellies market price and invest the profits into gold. Can anyone help me with this strategy?

Last:
LH N8 July Lean Hogs 62675 +125 +0.2 62900 62400 4.18K
PB N8 July Pork Bellies 60350 +1450 +2.5 61150 59150 2.45K
GC Q8 August Gold 2941 +5 +0.2 2941 2914 24.8K
SI N8 July Silver 5275 +2 +0.0 5280 5125 19.1K

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:54
aurophile (@Donald) ID#256326:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I can't remember who said it, but in the early 1980's someone remarked that with our interest rates being what they were, money would be drawn from the moon. This stopped for a while with the famous Plaza Accords of G-7, and it didn't get going again until Greenspan's brilliant bailout of the banking industry in 1990-92 followed by the yen carry gambit.

Fekete's idea was/is that the enormous issue of US government bonds prolongs the bond boom in time ( but not in ultimate price ) since rates would always fall to a point at or below the productivity of labor and capital before disinflation/deflation could end. I do not know his current thoughts about whether the current lull in treasury bond issuance
suggests that the trend is nearing its end.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:40
lenaxe (Gold prices holding here make for interesting comparisons) ID#316209:
Ordinarily, on a day when the Yen is weak one would assume that gold prices would drop. However, after an initial drop this morning, they seemed to have firmed and are now up a little. Interesting change in response by the barbaric relic. Could this be signalling a change in the winds?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:35
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Farmers fear return of subsidy wars

WINNIPEG ( CP ) -- Canadian farmers could be flying high without a net if the European Union triggers another international grain subsidy war, and it appears the first shots have already been fired.

Ironically, nothing that Europe or the United States is doing violates the deals Canada signed, but the brave new subsidy-free world farmers were told to expect is a long way from reality.
http://www.freecartoons.com/NationalTicker/CANOE-wire.Grain-Wars.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:35
aurophile (6Pak) ID#256326:
I'm tempted to take back all the nasty things I've ever said about the EU. I only wish they had said something similar ( and followed up on it ) when Bosnia was the victim. The strength of a political unit and its currency depends to a great extent upon its will. We shall see.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:35
Donald (BIS says megabanks can rely on risk management systems. Extra capital not needed.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/bis_sees_n_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:30
aurophile (D.A.) ID#256326:
Thanks. I couldn't have taken non-fungibility of gold warehouse receipts AND no Santa Claus all in one year...;- )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:27
Donald (@Aurophile) ID#26793:
So the giant sucking sound noise is not coming from Mexico after all?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:26
6pak () ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EU bans new investments in Serbia

LUXEMBOURG ( AP ) -- The European Union banned new investments in Serbia and froze it's assets abroad today to punish Belgrade for widespread house-burning and indiscriminate artillery attacks on whole villages in Kosovo.

Serbia is engaged in a campaign of violence going far beyond what could legitimately be described as a targeted anti-terrorist operation, the EU foreign ministers said.

British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, chairman of the EU meeting, warned Milosevic to back off or face a military intervention in Kosovo where ethnic Albanians comprise 90 per cent of the 2.2 million people.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.EU-Kosovo.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:25
tolerant1 (Gollum, Namaste') ID#373284:
Quite right...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:23
D.A. (warehouse.receipts) ID#7568:
Aurophile:

The problem is with silver, not with gold. Much of the Comex silver inventory contains bars from refiners, whose product is not up to London specs. These refiners are no longer in business but their legacy lives on.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:23
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Metals stock indices going in the correct direction today, and quite nicely. Could be a 'change' just around the corner coming for the pyhsical!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:14
Gollum (@tolerant1 ) ID#43185:
Mr. Buffet is not interested in speculative investments. He is interested
in solid fundamentals.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 10:04
aurophile (6Pak/D.A.) ID#256326:
6Pak: Thanks for your remarks as always.

D.A.: You have destroyed one of my myths, namely the fungibility of Comex warehouse gold delivery receipts. I had thought one could take them anywhere and have one's gold sold anywhere, but you are implying that an assay would be required for sale loco or in London? ( I am aware of their variability in absolute weight. )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:55
6pak (aurophile @ 9:09) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks aurophile. I agree with your position/take, regarding FED - Morgan - Private Banker's, and the use of propaganda to dominate bond/note/bill markets.

Like you, I also do not accept that an agenda of the usual conspiracist model is the point of focus.

Yes, it is true that the U.S. bond market has changed the nature of all markets, in many regards, having a positive and productive result.

The Economic world, and the citizen, are now in conflict with these powerful forces. ( propagandist's ) . Balance has been lost, as a consequence, the whole economic/democratic system, is again on the verge of collapse. Will these powerful forces ( propagandist's ) survive, I say YES.

Will they ( propagandist's ) adapt?, I say they will be the first, to adapt, they are opportunists, non-productive forces, ( as in workers bringing in the sheaves ) , these powerful forces ( propagandist's ) to survive, must jump in front of the parade, to give the appearance of designated leadership. ( TRICKSER'S EH! )

Be Quiet...Consume...And Die,,,,,,,,,Mushrooms-R-Us
Thanks ...Take Care.





As you suggest, it may be that the Morgans and other private bankers
sensed that it was to their great advantage to establish and effectively control the FED, not in the usual
conspiracist model, but by propaganda and a willingness to dominate the government bond/note/bill markets.
Nevertheless, it is true that the giant U.S. bond market has changed the nature of all markets.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:54
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...WHY SILVER? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Buffet is a) ID#373284:
clear thinker...meticulous...WHY SILVER and not gold. Me thinks ( attempt ) he may be thinking that gold is too political a metal while silver is clearly an industrial metal.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I need a few more mug fills of tequila to figure this one out...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:37
D.A. (reversal.of.fortune) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Ridgerunner:

The big funds which are short, are systematic trend followers. Unfortunately they have chosen not to share their algorythms with moi. However, if history is any sort of a guide, the 200 day moving average or thereabouts could be a significant number. Whether they will immediately switch to the long side is also unclear. More likely is that they will wait bit after covering the shorts.

One thing that I forgot to mention is the recent drawdown in Comex stocks. As I have stated on past occasions, the Comex material is of poorer quality than the London material, and is mostly not deliverable against London contracts. Because of this disparity in quality, the Comex stockpiles should be the very last to go. If we make a new inventory low on Comex, this could be very significant.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:35
Silverbaron (chas) ID#289357:

He's a wacko doom-and-gloomer.....BUT, he does have some good scientific information. I have no idea about the reliability of his sources.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:33
chas (Silverbaron re 8.4) ID#342315:
This guy looks great. Is there nay question re credability? Much obliged, Charlie

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:27
Ray () ID#411149:
JP- I appreciate your thoughts, IF YOU GOT TIME GIVE ME A HOLLER.
raydm@iamerica.net Thanks!

Tally Ho

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:21
Nick@C () ID#386279:
Insults emanating from that nondescript little island nation to my right have not gone unnoticed. It is late and I am going to bed--to dream of future retaliatory activities. Annexation is too good for them.

BTW -- gold and silver are both going to go up shortly, just as soon as they finish going down. I am still looking for a right-angled-plastic-see-through-ruler. Nite all.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:21
Ridgerunner (Thanks, D.A., for your insight into what is going on in the real world.) ID#356379:

We all benefit from your ringside seat. When do you see the funds reversing their short positions and going long?

The Ridgerunner

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:09
aurophile (6Pak) ID#256326:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thank you for your reply to my remarksof last night and to those of Antal Fekete. The shock therapy he refers to was the norm in the 19th century panics and crashes which came and went quickly like summer storms. It was only after the establishment of the Federal Reserve System, and the desire of the Federal Government to control the tides a la King Canute, that deflationary/disinflationary ( and their opposite ) events have become much longer in duration and more deadly. As you suggest, it may be that the Morgans and other private bankers sensed that it was to their great advantage to establish and effectively control the FED, not in the usual conspiracist model, but by propaganda and a willingness to dominate the government bond/note/bill markets. Nevertheless, it is true that the giant U.S. bond market has changed the nature of all markets.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 09:01
6pak () ID#335190:
Advocates welcome Di Bella to Toronto

TORONTO ( CP ) -- Dr. Luigi Di Bella was warmly welcomed Sunday by supporters who waited for hours to get a glimpse of the Italian doctor at the centre of a controversy over his cancer treatment.

While many experts are skeptical about Di Bella's methods, some hail his treatment as a miracle cure for cancer.
http://www.freecartoons.com/NationalTicker/CANOE-wire.Cancer-Doctor.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:56
6pak () ID#335190:
Authorities call off desert manhunt for suspected killers

BLUFF, Utah ( AP ) -- Conceding their search may have been misdirected from the start, authorities called off a massive manhunt for two Colorado survivalists suspected of killing a police officer.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Western-Manhunt.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:53
aurophile (@Junior) ID#256326:
BIS president Alfons Verplaetse is better known at this forum as the man who sold all of Belgium's gold after saying a year before that he was finished selling.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:50
6pak () ID#335190:
Wells Fargo, Norwest to merge in $34 billion deal

SAN FRANCISCO, ( Reuters ) - Wells Fargo and Co. and Norwest Corp. have agreed to merge in a deal valued at $34 billion, the bank holding companies said Monday.

The merger would create a banking giant in the western United States with $191 billion in assets, more than 90,000 employees, 20 million customers, and 5,777 financial services outlets.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:46
chas (JTF re 8.4) ID#342315:
Been tracking and looking- nothing especially official nothing.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:41
Novice (D.A.) ID#375108:
MANY thanks for your take on the silver and gold markets. Interpretations like yours are what make Kitco worth reading.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:40
chas (SDRer re email) ID#342315:
I need your address to send the Fed data. My email is cdevoto@abts.net Had to change ISP and comp

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:27
Gollum (@D.A. ) ID#43185:
haha! May the force be with you!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:24
D.A. (silver.and.gold) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All:

Last night the grim sweeper once again showed up on the Access market. With a million or two ounces he managed to drive the July contract to a low of 512.50. The most interesting part of the exercise is that the few dealers that were awake at the time didn't even bother to lower the cash market below 5.20 bid. It did not take long for the July to regain its footing. Immediately thereafter, lots of bids came in on the Access just in case the sweeper chose another hara kiri mission.

It appears that the sweeper comes in to make a statement, get low prints and try to hit stops. In addition, if the cash market follows the Access down, he may get a free shot at covering, if the dealers try to anticipate more selling and lower their offers too much. Last night the dealers were having none of it, and were content to be buyers 7.5 cents above the July, at the peak of the selling. Something is afoot.

Since the sweeper plays for bigger stakes than the 2 million ounce shots at Access, it is likely that he already has a sizeable short position on the books. Maybe the early selling on Friday was his.

If the dealers sense that he is alone in his efforts, and that he is short a good bunch at lower prices, they may turn up the heat. Given that there are certainly some large funds with extremely large short positions still in the game, things could get exciting very quickly. Realizing that I have made this point perhaps too many times, I shall make it once again. Those waiting for more bottoming action and a slow motion improvement might be disappointed by an extremely rapid short covering rally, the dimensions of which could be quite large.

With both gold and silver holding quite well in the face of yet more currency turmoil in Asia, a large pop is in the air.

My quantum consciousness says $300 and 575 silver within the week. Lets hope the wave function is collapsing.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:23
Junior (BIS President - Spoke many words & said NOTHING Whats New?) ID#248180:
-
BIS president warns discipline, supervision needed to avoid another crisis
Date: 08 Jun 1998 10:30:06
Service: AFX

BASEL ( AFX ) - Central bankers and politicians must ensure prudent
supervision and incentives for market discipline over the next few years if a repeat of the Asian economic crisis is to be avoided, Bank for International Settlements president, Alfons Verplaetse, warned.

Speaking at the BIS annual general meeting, Verplaetse said the Asian crisis has served as a painful reminder that the potential benefits of open and global financial markets will be realised only if certain preconditions are met.

He said the effectiveness of domestic policy making crucially depends on the markets' understanding of central bankers' objectives and strategies, while transparency is equally vital in the private sector if lenders and borrowers are to make informed decisions about the riskiness of their prospective activities.

Public disclosure of certain data is necessary to ensure market disicipline, but it is insufficient, he said, adding: Consider how the market for years ignored the existence of BIS international banking data which clearly indicated the potential for liquidity problems in Asia.

Veplaetse said the right incentive structure for profitable, yet prudent financial decisions is a second major policy challenge, and that in the light of the Asian crisis an evaluation of the effect of safety nets on the behaviour of both creditors and borrowers is needed.

This review should also cover the impact on market attitudes of official liquidity support for countries in crisis, he said, with a review of liquid support packages also necessary since the continuous growth in their size threatens to outstrip available resources.

Verplaetse said regulatory and supervisory frameworks have to be enhanced, as outlined in the Core Principles for Effective Banking Supervision unveiled last year.

The principles offer good guidance to domestic policy-makers, and should increasingly provide internationmal markets with a benchmark for disciplining those who do not conform, he said.

Progress in these three areas would lead to a more efficient as well as to a more stable financial system in the medium term, Verplaetse maintained, but it is up to the international community as well as the BIS to take up the
challenge and ensure that future crises are averted.

Reviewing the past financial year, Verplaetse said that besides Asia, there were some positive developments in the world economy, including growth rates in most industrial countries.

He called the smoothness of the path to the euro remarkable and welcome, added that the U.S. and the UK are leading economic expansion in the industrial world, and pointed out that structural reforms and more disciplined policies have generated solid growth in Latin America, many countries of Eastern Europe and significant parts of Africa.

On the downside, the Japanese economy has moved to the edge of recession, Verplaetse said, having so far failed to respond to repeated policy intitiatives, although recent fiscal measures to recapitalise the banking system should in principle forestall recession.

He blamed the Asian crises on a climate of excessive optimism among both borrowers and lenders, but said a more sober sense of realism is now influencing economic policy-making in the region.

While the road ahead remains long and difficult, the courageous
reorientation of policies in several countries deserves to be applauded, he said. Indeed, confidence in the region is slowly being rebuilt.

Verplaetse also said inflation in most regions of the world has tended to converge to a low level, but that central bankers should not be complacent about this state of affairs.

He said the U.S. and the UK have achieved strong growth and low inflation while their exchange rates have firmed and their trade deficits widened. So far such deficits have been easily financed, but a fall in foreign investment could
alter this scenario and, in turn, the role played by the exchange rate in
keeping domestic inflation subdued.

Monetary policy might then need to take more of a leading role in
maintaining price stability, and this would be all the more likely were the recent downward trend in commodity prices to reverse, Verplaetse said.

But the BIS president was upbeat on the euro's prospects, predicting it will bring in its wake an expansion of competitive forces in Europe, regulatory reforms and more flexible products and labour markets.

The European Central Bank, meanwhile, will overcome its transitional
problems to provide an anchor to stabilise inflation expectations and in turn inflation itself, he forecast.
imp/jlw

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:23
gorgonzola (guns) ID#43282:
Copyright © 1998 gorgonzola/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Some people on this forum might be interested in a fairly new book called _More Guns, Less Crime_ by John R. Lott, Jr. It is based on a study which used the most comprehensive database on crime ever assembled. Lott and his partner David Mustard also wrote an article ( http://www.law.uchicago.edu/Publications/Working/41.html ) which appeared in the Journal of Legal Studies and has generated a lot of controversy. You can purchase the book at http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/13530.ctl .

I just bought the book the other day. Here is a summary of what's argued in it: first, that permitting concealed carry to all law-abiding citizens reduces all kinds of violent crime: murder, rape, aggravated assault, and robberies ( robberies are confrontational incidents - the category of robbery doesn't include burglaries ) . This includes the mass shooting incidents that the media pay so much attention to - in fact Lott's time frame showed such incidents consistently dropping to zero within a few years of the adoption of shall-issue concealed carry laws. Interestingly, the data also show that increases in crime tend to follow mandatory waiting laws, including the national Brady Bill. Lott also found that the greatest gains from concealed-carry laws occured in densely populated areas such as cities. Finally the author devotes a chapter to a discussion of the academic and political debate, in which he rebuts some recent arguments that have been made by academics, and also he points out the immature and dishonest tactics of some of his opponents.

Sometime soon if I can get my hands on a scanner I want to scan some of the more interesting graphs and put them on my web page. For now, here is an article that contains a graph illustrating the usual trend: http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Lott_v_Teret/Response_to_Teret.html Anyway - I hope others have as much fun with this as I have. It's not likely I'll get to a scanner really soon but I'll try.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:07
aurophile (Donald) ID#256326:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A tidbit for ya:

The vacuum effect created by the bond market in this country will greatly hurt other countries friendly to the United States. The U.S. bond market has already sucked up a great deal of wealth from foreign countries. The trade deficit is the harbinger of that. Foreigners are shipping goods to this country to pay for their bonds. They do not mind selling their wares at an unfavorable exchange rate,and will continue to do so for so long as the yield on bonds is better than the productivity of labor and capital. How long friendly governments will tolerate the flight of capital to the United States is unknown.

Antal Fekete, Deflation:Retrospect and Prospect, CMRE Monograph 45, April 1986.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 08:02
Donald (@EJ) ID#26793:
Where does it end? In a worldwide depression. Depressions do the things that politicians are loath to do. We will see if there is anyone who is too big to fail ( there is not )

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:58
EJ (Donald: Deflation in Asia -- you called it!) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Deflation caused by currency depreciations would have a profound influence upon China and Hong Kong, Condon said.

Falling Asian currencies would increase the value of the Hong Kong dollar and the Chinese yuan, forcing further adjustment in their economies to compensate, he said.

Hong Kong asset prices would fall further while China's exports would lose their competitiveness.

Isn't this exactly what is predictable about a fiat money system? That in economic down cycles, nations are forced into a deadly feedback loop of currency devaluations to stay competitive? Where does it end?

-EJ

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:54
Donald (Enough gloom here to cheer any goldbug. BIS news; take your pick.) ID#26793:
http://search.main.yahoo.com/search/news?p=bis

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:50
Donald (BIS says the banks have created this whole mess. ) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/banks_asia_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:46
Donald (Deflationary pressures intense as all Asian currencies slump.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/asia_yen_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:40
Donald (Japanese insurance policy holders cancelling their policies (read run)) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/japan_insu_2.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:35
Donald (South African gold miners discuss strategy.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980607/safrica_go_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:35
Fred(@Vienna)__A (Last men standing) ID#185448:
Copyright © 1998 Fred(@Vienna)__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
JIMS:
Maybe you´re right and the blond b++++ goes up today. As I turned out to be accurate as a contrary-indicator - but I dont want to say more, as POG does exactly the opposite of what I think it does. ( Call me a Think 'n tank ) .
All I can say for now is: I recognize a bottom, when I hit one.

AURATOR
One must be high, to sell low.
Although not too keen with the martial arts, I have a faible for stories, when the little ones hit the big ones, as it is evident that power´s brother is arrogance. Charles Darwin's message was not big eats small but rather The fast one has a better chance to survive than the slow one. And you dont have to be Albert E. to know about the correspondence between mass, velocity and power. So I congratulate your Maori-brothers-in-arms to their great victory, based upon intellegence, not overwhelming power. David vs. Goliath, Ghandi et. al. vs. them Brits again or Austria vs. Germany ( Soccer World-Championship 1978 in Argentina 3:2 ) , the Hermann der Cherusker vs. the Roman Empire in the Forests of Southern Germany - the list is endless and glorious. Beware of your enemy, if he arrives with an old bicycle and cave carpem. So there is a chance in your crusade against merca, but not on a bright n' sunny day on a plain battlefield. Hit them out of the blue, and dont let them Nuke Sealand.
So I´m sitting here on the banks of this long, long river, waiting for the shorts to be shortened by an unforeseen event - I dont want to be rich, just want to turn out right.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:29
ROR (G-7 et Euro) ID#412286:
Merci beaucoup pour votre temp. Quand pensez-vous le finis pour la Dow Jones Industriales? Je pense que apres juli, 1998 quand le dollar est laid. Je suis etudie le sujet non il est difficile savoir le question de QUAND. Savez-vous quand?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:27
Donald (Oil prices continue to drop this morning; despite production cuts.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/oil_market_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:27
sharefin (Global Intelligence Update) ID#284255:
-
From the Persian Gulf to Latin America: A New Epoch in Energy Policy

With the Indian subcontinent calming down, and Russia moving back from the
brink by cutting interest rates to a mere 60 percent, the main global
focus this week was on oil prices. Oil ministers from Saudi Arabia,
Venezuela and Mexico met in Amsterdam this week and agreed to cut oil
production for the second time in recent months. Oil prices, which have
been historically low for nearly a generation, have dropped to near the
lowest they have been in this century, when measured in real terms.

The decline in oil prices, while generally benefitting consumer industrial
societies, has reached disastrous levels for oil producers. For example,
the Russian financial crisis was in large part rooted in the decline of oil
prices, as unexpectedly low income from oil and gas exports undermined hard
currency reserves and jeopardized internal financing of development,
creating a massive crisis of confidence. Indonesia has also been
particularly damaged by low energy prices. But the list of victims
includes more distinguished world citizens. Saudi Arabia, for example,
still considered by the general public to be a bottomless pit of wealth, is
in fact in serious financial trouble, as are other Persian Gulf oil
producers. For example, Kuwait's oil minister, Sheikh Saud Nasser al-
Sabah, said recently that his country could face economic catastrophe if
the price of oil didn't rise. The fall of oil prices to the low teens has
left the economies of oil producers stretched to the limit.

It was in this context that Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Venezuela met in
Amsterdam this week to initiate a second round of oil production cuts. The
first round of cuts, initiated after the Riyadh meeting, seemed to stop the
fall in oil prices, but failed to raise prices sufficiently. It is
unclear, of course, whether the fall was stopped by the cuts or whether the
market had reached equilibrium by itself. Thus, it is unclear whether a
second round of production cuts can achieve the desired effects. Initial
reaction was fairly subdued, with prices rising modestly and the markets
apparently waiting to see whether other producers would be joining in the
Amsterdam round of cuts.

There are several reasons why the markets don't expect production cuts to
work. First, unlike the situation in the 1970s, oil production is no
longer concentrated in the hands of the relatively few players that make up
OPEC. This means that there is no institutional mechanism in place for
imposing and monitoring production. Mexico, for example, has become a
crucial player in the oil production game, but is not a member of OPEC.
This diffusion of production capacity not only makes decision making
difficult, it also makes monitoring impossible. It is one thing to
announce production cuts. It is quite another to know whether those cuts
have actually been implemented. The temptation to announce cuts and then
to covertly try to take advantage of competitor's cuts by increasing
production is sometimes overwhelming. In a vast market like that for
petroleum, the ability to verify agreements is severely limited. It
follows that, where verification is impossible, trust is limited. Thus,
regardless of what producers promise, the market is dubious. This tends to
undermine the ability of producers to raise prices through psychological
mechanisms. Production itself must contract, which will take a while at
the very least, even if cuts actually happen.

Whatever happens to oil prices, however, something extraordinary has
happened in the oil equation. For the second time this year, crucial
decisions on oil production policy have been taken by three nations meeting
privately. Only one of these nations is from the Persian Gulf, which is
conventionally regarded as the center of gravity of oil production. No one
was present from Central Asia, regarded as the emerging center of gravity.
Two of the nations present were from Latin America. This is of tremendous
long term significance for the international system. Saudi Arabia, the
acknowledged power of petroleum exporters, was forced to turn to Venezuela
and Mexico to have any hope of raising oil prices.

There is something odd in this. Venezuela exports a little over 5 percent
of the world's oil, while Mexico exports less than 4 percent. Saudi Arabia
exports 20 percent, while the Persian Gulf taken together controls over
one-third of the world export markets. Other non-OPEC countries, like
Norway and Russia, each export more than 7 percent of the world's
petroleum. Thus, the numbers alone don't explain why Saudi Arabia has
become so dependent on Latin American producers for market control.

There are several reasons for the Saudis' reliance on Latin America.
First, the Persian Gulf states are a fractious lot under the best of
circumstances. Following this week's cuts, Kuwait and Iran both made it
clear that they would wait before agreeing to cut their own production,
even though both had previously called for additional cuts. Morever, even
if all the Persian Gulf producers could be lined up on one side of the
issue, their market share would not be enough to control world markets
without outside support. Thus, the Saudis realize that their ability to
deliver the Persian Gulf producers would depend on their ability to
generate outside support. Lining up non-Persian Gulf support became
critical for holding the Persian Gulf producers together. In the end, the
fact was that even with Saudi Arabia speaking for all of them, including
Iran, the Persian Gulf states simply don't have the economic power to
impose their will any longer.

Russia and Norway are the largest non-Arab, non-OPEC exporters. But Russia
is not in a position to cut production. Indeed, if the last few weeks are
any indication, the Saudis will be lucky if the Russians don't want to
increase production. Norway, on the other hand, is an industrialized
nation and an integral part of Europe, at least unofficially. As much as
Norway benefits from higher oil prices, its industrial sector, and those
of its European trading partners, is hurt by them. Norway is hardly going
to lead the pack in raising prices.

This is the core problem. Oil producers are falling into two groups.
Some, like Russia and Indonesia, could not possibly afford to cut
production, regardless of the long-term benefits. Others, like Norway and
Canada, are on the whole beneficiaries of low oil prices in spite of the
fact that they are also exporting oil. The number of nations that have an
interest in higher oil prices and can afford to cut production is rather
limited. They do not include traditional powers, such as Kuwait, or
industrial producers like Norway.

They do include Venezuela and Mexico. Venezuela is particularly important
because it exports almost all of its production. Thus, production cuts in
Venezuela have disproportionate effects on export availability. More
important, Venezuela has vast reserves and is therefore critically
important to the long term stability of the market. Both Mexico and
Venezuela are interested in higher prices and are in positions to curtail
production in order to achieve those prices. This has created a
dramatically new constellation of oil powers, defined less by their
production and export rankings than by their relative freedom to maneuver.

As much as both Mexico and Venezuela have been hurt by lower energy prices,
they are in substantially better condition than other oil exporters. This
is in part the result of the fact that countries like Kuwait and Indonesia
have dramatically overreached themselves in their development plans, which
has left them incapable of cutting back on consumption without seriously
damaging their economies. Mexico and Venezuela have combined solid growth
in recent years with much more modest development policies, leaving them
with room to maneuver. Therefore, Saudi Arabia, more financially exposed
than Mexico or Venezuela, finds itself dependent on their willingness to
cooperate in controlling production.

We are not persuaded that this consortium will be able to lead the oil
producing world back to $20 a barrel oil. But that is not the important
point. The increased power of the Latin American producers is part of the
general process that has led us to regard Latin America as the growth
leader of the next generation. But the increased power of the Latin
American producers also points to the decreased power of the Persian Gulf
producers. Not only has their economic position deteriorated internally,
but their external dependence has shifted as well. The Saudis cannot any
longer speak to the Iranians or the Omanis to determine the course of the
oil market. They now must speak to the Venezuelans and Mexicans, who may
or may not accommodate them.

The shift in the center of gravity of energy decision making to the Western
Hemisphere obviously shifts the political landscape as well. Mexico and
Venezuela are both well in the American sphere of influence. As good as
that is for the United States, it means that a new set of issues are
emerging for the U.S.. The stability of both Venezuela and Mexico are of
critical importance to the United States, not only because they are nearby,
but also because they have become central pieces in the global energy
equation. This increases the importance of maintaining stability in both
countries.

Thus, the Colombian mess, always a regional issue, becomes crucial for the
United States because of the proximity of Venezuela. If the Persian Gulf
is important because its ability to affect the availability and price of
oil, then with Mexico and Venezuela in similar key positions, containing
the Colombian chaos becomes an issue on the order of the Persian Gulf. It
is not surprising, therefore, that the United States is increasing the
tempo of its involvement in Colombia at this time. Similarly, instability
in Mexico is more than a border issue for the United States. Suddenly, two
of the world's largest commodity markets, oil and drugs, are coming
together into a single policy dilemma for the United States. With two out
of the three major decision makers in the oil field now speaking Spanish,
we have entered a new epoch in energy policy. The implications are
enormous and, as yet, poorly thought out.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:25
sharefin (Email Chatter) ID#284255:
NOTE ON GOLD... which started to stabilize again this week. Asia is the controlling influence, and a renewed meltdown could spread to Japan and trigger a global deflation crisis ( that's why gold is weak ) . But in that event, you can count on massive central bank intervention and a liquidity pumping that could send gold soaring. So in that regard, we view our gold stock position as insurance. Meanwhile, on the other hand, if Asia stabilizes, then the big surprise will be how quickly gold rallies.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:24
Donald (Japan says G7 plans joint action to support the yen.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980608/mof_says_j_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:21
Donald (Currency problems? Not to worry! Back to barter for China and Malaysia.) ID#26793:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/06/02/international_news/malaysiac_1.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:17
Donald (Singapore suffers its first major default.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/980607/singapore__2.html

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:10
aurator (peraurators_R-US) ID#250121:
-
silverbaron
you tryin to gazump me wiv news of a NZ volcano? ;- )

Naah. The report is raho. that's mountain oysters, ummmmm sheeps balls....

If you have a look at a map of NZ, the lake Taupo they're talking about was one volcano that blew itself to oblivion. ( I use the word carefully ) But not really a happening thing, as far as I can gather...

But The ( don't call me a Banana Dominion ) New Zealand Dollar is too insignificant and too much of a, ahhhemmm, candle in the wind, to do much other than dance to the same tune ( thass looney toon ) as the Stralian Dollar. Though the stralians are still mostly crooks. and they speak funny... gotta go to ////// ----- A Town Like Alice------ Bout time for the boat races in Alice, yes?


Over here, the sheep can all foxtrot....

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:08
jims (Silverbaron- yes but no news on the EURO gold reserves) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Seems the whole EURO gold reserve thing has been lost behind the G7 forthcoming meeting at which nothing is expected to be done about the strong yen. My what a mess we are in. At some point the US will have to intervene along with Japan to stop the fall of the yen or there will be another round of devaluations, increasingly likely involving the Chinese yaun and HK dollar.

The US economy will start to feel the pinch of the weak Asian currencies. Action of some type will have to be taken. Perhaps a new trend begins, now, where the US buys Yen, in the course of doing so inflates the US money supply lifting or at least putting the brakes on this deflationary decline accross the board in commidities. This might have a desired effect on interest rates moving long term rates slightly higher while short rates fall - thus maintaining economic growth in the states.

The stock market might explode to 10,000 quite quickly if decisive action were to be taken and the crisis and decline in Asian begin to be seen has having abated.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:01
aurophile (ROR more.............) ID#256326:
cont...........

EU looks to be a good deal for banks, insurance cos., and others looking to exploit weak local markets. The currency itself will likely be subject to the equivalents of the shipper's hurdles. States' rights is going to get a new chapter, and it will not look as rosy as the unionist propaganda going in. It may not matter much for quite some time whether the currency is backed by gold or by mineral water ( gazeuse ) .


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 07:00
aurophile (ROR) ID#256326:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
During a recent buffet visit to EU/non-EU Europe, I had the pleasure of a lengthy discussion on the state of the union with a major shipper of perishables. I had already noted the five to ten mile long lines of large cargo trucks ( camions if you will ) piled up outside entry points and processed at 4 per hour through the bureacratic maze known as Zollamt. The payoffs to facilitate clearing are enormous in the aggregate.

Signor Shipper laughed uncontrollably when the EU was mentioned and spat contemptuously and frequently. The essence of his contempt is that local ( meaning anything up to national ) officials ( defined as those most officious ) have circumvented the dividends of union by laying on fees, licenses, tolls, and, naturally, bribes, to replace the tarriffs which are history. Beyond these normal operating expenses are the delays, often for the flimsiest of reasons, which lead to lost cargoes and lost customers.

EU looks to be a good deal for banks, insurance cos., and others lookin

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:55
aurator (2¢, and a new age multi-choice test........) ID#250121:
aurophile
goodmorning! I liked your Garbageman to the corrupt/inept gobmint post last spin.

Jims
last time it was so quiet at kitco:
a ) Gold dropped $20
b ) Rupiah dropped 50%
c ) India dropped a bomb
d ) Nick@C dropped his guts
e ) Klinto dropped his pants
f ) All of the above

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:54
Silverbaron (Misc. news - Belarus earthquake, NZ volcano, El Nino, Y2K etc.) ID#289357:

http://www.iinet.net.au/~standeyo/Special_News.html#Hot_News

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:48
Bully Beef (Everyone do GOLD Mantra today!) ID#259282:
Gooold ...gooold gggggOOOOOlllllDDDDDDD GGGGGGGG OOOOOOO LLLLL DDDDDD. I started early this mornning. D'Or.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:46
jims (I thought the board was broken) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good to see you are here Aurator, and Fred fro Vienna I think you are right the quiet on this posting board has to suggest that the boredom level with the metals has reached a new intensity - if boredom can be intense.

ROR - I hadn't seen you post in French before - but I concur the Euorpeans will want a strong currency. They must have a strong currency or their experiment will fail.

Looks to me that'll we'll drift until the dollar turns but as I said earlier if these metals get up today - given the mood prevelant - it will indeed catch my interest. That however is probably what I too need less of, as it may be some time that the metals and mining stocks drift as the dollar rises the stock marketso f Europe and American attract capital.

At some point between here and another 10-20 % down ( depending on your precious metal insturment of choice I bet there is a bottom through which dollar strenght can not push these metals below.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:40
aurophile (ROR) ID#256326:
Non.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:36
aurator (..........Warrior.... ..... Warrrior..............) ID#250121:
-


We have been gifted by a new nude sealand documentary tonight, Fred, Entitled The NZ Wars. I have mentioned heretofore ( high english ) that the Maori invented Trench Warfare. Tonight, we saw the power of computer graphics illustrating the construction of a Maori Pa ( fortification ) in the North of NZ in 1845, it contained trenches, underground stores, underground barracks .... It was built specifically to lure the Imperial British Army of Queen Victoria into a trap.

Congreve missiles ( missles to my merkan amigos ) were volleyed into the fortifications for a short week, grape and shot, 100 rounds a day, to soften and scare the natives..... The Maori had built underground barracks, interconnecting trenches. The Brits attacked, thinking that the primitive savages were already defeated, the attack was repelled within 10 minutes, 50% British casualties. By superior planning and intelligence a Maori force of one sixth the size of the Brits is victorious.

Earlier, someone said, it's not the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog.


My dear merkan bellicose friends. Have you forgotten Nam? Superior weaponry is no guarantee of victory.

..........Warrior.... ..... Warrrior..............

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:30
ROR (G-7) ID#412286:
Je pense que La nouveau Centrale Banc de Europe veulant le bon argent. Parce qur il est importante que Euro gagne viv a vis le dollar de US.
Avez-vous le meme idee que moi Monsieur et madame? Respondez s'il vous plait!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:22
aurator (ennivrez vous) ID#250121:
Fred
Oui, serai c'est ça.

Sans Cesse

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:11
Fred(@Vienna)__A (Dear fellow masochists) ID#185448:
If the number of posts on this site is of some kind of statistical relevance - today must be the day of the big bad bear. No posts. no news, no nothing. EMU's to meet June 9th, also G7´s.

So I am convinced that gold will go up. Soon. Or a little later.
Or down.
Or sideways.
From weak to strong hands.

Or, as aurator´s friend Jodelaire once said in a very very bearish mood:

Enervé, enervé. D´or, d´actions de mines d´or, du Dollar des Ozzies. Mais anyway - je suis enervé.

P.S. Ceterum censeo: Jeil iS a sage.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 06:07
jims (Notice.....) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
that as London and Europe are open and the yen is weak the gold and silver markets have come back from their lows. What a surprise it would be if they went up, today. A break above 5.30 on silver would have some bullish implications.

Oil is weak again dispite the Saudi minister's travels to drum down oil production. The yen crease to fall when the UD and other G 7 countires agree on joint intervention.

Metals still look to be downtrending but I'm looking for reaction tothe news that is not anticipated - like a rally when a doprop would be expected - ie SHORT COVERING, especially in silver.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 04:22
jims (EURO & GOLD BACKING) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Nothing from the EURO meeting relative to the backing of the Euro have I seen anybody post so I guess that wasn't announced on the 7th of June which was one of the dates that had been mentioned. ( pleases correct me if I'm wrong. )

Suppose they may not be too quick to make decisions given the currency climate.

Given the deflationary mood represented on this baord, if the central banks wait to long they'll have to make an annoucenment to reflate - ie. declare a floor under which the central banks will not sell gold and create a strong currency with a 20%+ gold reserve.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 03:08
John Disney__A (They really want your GUN) ID#24135:
For Highrise ..
You got that right .. the liberal
nazis sing the same song world wide
.. tobacco THEN guns ..
Tobacco was the testing ground ..
what they really want is your gun..
Then they gotcha...

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 03:05
John Disney__A (Not tough enough ..) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Oris .. Guys named zeke and blooper ( Names tell you
a lot ) fail to understand point being made by
documentary.
Performance of US jets is outstanding. In the
engagements they are likely to encounter - However,
they need much more support by ground technicians.
They are also very delicate. I was dumbfounded to see
films of runways being swept clean till spotless every
morning to prevent debris pickup into jet intakes
( russians use heavy screens and inlet vents ) .
Believe US planes best in world against weak opponent
or at air shows. But not really tough enough. Also much
too costly.
All above notwithstanding .. would prefer being
airbourne in MIG with you and a couple of natasha ( plus
vodka and pickles ) to flight in F-16 with zeke and
janet reno.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 02:56
HighRise (Good Night) ID#401460:

HighRise

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 02:55
HighRise (Tobacco & now Guns!) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

6/8/98 -- 1:32 AM

Ravaged by gun violence, Philadelphia targets gun industry...

PHILADELPHIA ( AP ) - Weary of the 400 gun deaths each year in his city's ragged
inner-city neighborhoods, Mayor Ed Rendell girded himself for a showdown with the
leaders of the gun industry.

First, he threatened a lawsuit to hold gun manufacturers liable for the blood on the
streets. Then he took a train to Washington and, his voice dropping low and husky,
let Smith & Wesson, Glock and Berretta know just what their guns do ``to the heart
and soul and very fabric of a great American city.''

``One way or another in Philadelphia,'' he told a gathering of gun industry
executives in April, ``we will do anything, we will try anything to reduce the carnage.''

Big-city mayors and gun makers were to begin meeting today to discuss urban gun
violence - and try to avert a suit.

- A public nuisance suit could charge that guns interfere with city residents' right to
safety. Criminals get guns easily and cheaply, and neighborhoods are flooded with
more guns than law-abiding citizens need, Kairys said.

- A negligence or fraud case could accuse manufacturers of misleading people,
through advertising, into thinking they would be safer with a gun in the home -
despite studies that indicate the opposite.
http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news100z.htm

Now we know what the tobacco law suits were all about. Liberal Big City Mayors will probably file a large suit against the gun manufacturers.

HighRise

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 02:47
HighRise (Yen-Dollar ) ID#401460:

6/8/98 -- 2:18 AM
Yen-Dollar

TOKYO ( AP ) - The dollar was trading at 140.64 yen on the Tokyo foreign exchange market at 3 p.m. ( 2 a.m. EDT ) Monday, up 1.22 yen from late Friday.

HighRise

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:54
aurator (another currency tanks, and it's the one with Sir Edmund Hillary on the revers......) ID#250121:
as the NZ$ follows the Stralian$ down the gurgler, my precious holdings' values are increasing cf NZ$, maintaining Purchasing power.

mole
thanks for the response re gold/silver monetism. Date: Sun Jun 07 1998 17:50 If you see a bimetallic standard on the horizon, am I correct in thinking you would let the market constantly decide the relative values of Ag and Au. Like a floating bimetallic standard? hmmmmmm



Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:46
Gianni Dioro__A (Selby,pagoda: Confiscation) ID#384350:
I read that in the 30's people's safe-deposit boxes were sealed and couldn't be opened without a federal agent present. Any gold found was confiscated and turned over to the private banking cartel in exchange for FRN's.

I think they already seal those boxes when people die, so just another nail in the coffin in the last bastion of Kapitalism.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:25
blooper (JTF,) ID#207145:
George Bush has always been powerless, except in Gulf war. He did a great job. But he's not a conservative, and takes up for Clinton too much. I never thought he was electable. Very repulsive personality.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:17
blooper (Just when I think I've got it all figgered out,) ID#207145:
It all goes to crap. Good night all!

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:10
blooper (JTF ,) ID#207145:
Your post was interesting. I feel asia's demand in the area of grains has killed the CRB. Throw crude oil in there too. I believe Europe is the place to be for all those reasons. Did you know Utilities are up 45% this year. I,m sittin on 25% U.s as i expect even Europe will fall starting the 15th thru end of month. Then BLAST OFF FOR 10,000. Blow off then down till Nov.1.What do you think?

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:08
Selby (pagoda ) ID#286230:
I asked about the confiscation question about a year ago. As far as I can determine US citizens were asked to turn in their gold ( some doubt as to what gold means--gold coins, candlesticks? ) Houses were not invaded and searched as some would have us believe --the law was enacted and people asked to turn it in. If you can get more info on this matter I'd liked to hear it.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:04
Gianni Dioro__A (Y2K is bigger than we think) ID#384350:
...because BJK put Gore on it, just like he did with Chinese fund raising ( Ghore ) , or Healthcare ( HerRoyalKlinton ) . Klinton is always shirking responsibility.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 01:03
blooper (JTF) ID#207145:
Funny you should mention Europe. I invest in a European fund. I am not positive on gold until it finishes the double bottom it's making. I don't get too cute with gold, as it goes up when it gets ready.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:58
JTF (Re: The Belarus 'earthquake') ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: You should see Matt Drudge's site. Apparently the source ot the error went offline just after MD got his story. MD also mentions a military 'tactical error'. Could it be that we had a nuclear explosion of some kind? Now -- above ground or water -- the whole world would know -- but what if there was a nuclear event on board a Russina submarine? Subterfuge to hide the theft of some nuclear weapons re: the movie 'The Peacemaker'? I am beginning to wonder if our increased internet awareness may have its drawbacks, but it would be nice to know what actually happened. A number of unreported nuclear accidents occured during the cold war -- inparticular Russian nuclear sub disappearances. And -- we lost the Thresher.

Old soldier/Retired soldier: Any missing Russian subs?

chas: You are our resident seismologist. Did you get any real time data? False alarm from Belarus, or nuclear explosion? I think we would have known about an meteor event, also.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:45
Gianni Dioro__A (pagoda, confiscation) ID#384350:
-
I see a heavy tax ( sales ) or import/export duty on PM's.

If paper currencies collapse, there might be confiscation, but you would get some new gold or silver backed ( redeemable ) paper in exchange, so you're buying power might be preserved.

There would likely be a world fiat currency, possibly digitally traded, but they'll claim it is gold backed. The usury, fractional reserve system would still be there.

Or there might be a push towards a global socialist state, like the Soviet Union, and PM's would be outlawed as currency. The ruling elite would then confiscate most of the gold, and keep it amongst themselves.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:42
JTF (CNN - Clinton News Network) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
blooper: That's great! If that is what it is, it may be that our master news manipulators are just trying to build up WJC by dumping on prior administrations. That may not be such as wise idea, as George Bush and the others who still live are not powerless.

But -- it is typical of the newsmongers that WJC uses. I like your simpler idea that it is a 'half-baked' WJC newsbyte better than my hidden conspiracy idea. More palatable, and more curable. Just remove the source. Looks like Kenneth Starr will succeed in making sure our next president is not a Democrat. I just hope the Replicans can get their act together, as I think a third party will no be viable -- yet.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:37
oris (John Disney) ID#238422:
Copyright © 1998 oris/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Brother John,

Next time you decide to say anything in favor of
something that can fly and also Russian-made, be aware
that it can hurt your spotless reputation. Being very
sensative to any attacks against you, my brother,
I propose that everything you say should be in favor
of something crafted with pride in the U.S...

Lets exclude MIGs from further consideration and
talk only about gold, platinum, palladium, silver,
salads, drinks, AG and RR, Y2K, Siberian miners,
Monica, Hillary, Russian tennis chicks,
blond chicks and just chicks...

If I can make it to RSA, and I hope so,
I'll bring a case of B-n-W Smirnoff and 1 MIG
with me, along with blond female pilot comrade
Natasha. We will drink and talk the essence of
life...and Natasha will fly around us in this
MIG...watering flowers in your garden...Sounds good?

Good night ( morning ) .

Your brother Oris, chief of Vodka/Pickle Research Lab.






Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:36
JTF (Dropping CRB -- how long before it rallies?) ID#57232:
blooper: You are right that much of the drop of the CRB spot is due to SEAsia. However, the US and European economies are very large, and hence can affect commodities prices without any help from asia. My guess is a little different from yours. The CRB will start to rise when it is clear that the European countries come out of their recession. If the US markets wilt before this happens, then I would aggree with you that we would have to wait for the asian recovery.


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:32
blooper (I wonder if Jane Fonda had a hand) ID#207145:
in the production. Last month she was telling U.N. about starving children in Georgia. Maby Teds Money should have stayed in Ga.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:29
blooper (JTF,) ID#207145:
I don't trust CNN ( clinton news network ) . They drug out Calley a wile back. Strictly tabloid journalism.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:29
EB (*weekend wrap it up*) ID#187109:
-
Earl - I had no idea. You go man with your bad charts...... ( bad is good ) ........hmmmmm.......eloquence with words and a bad-ass TA dude........ ( stand back ) ......I take all those things back that Ted said about you........ ( big grin ) ...........

( oh TeddO ) ..........how's my buddy doin' ( ) ............hmmmmmm......... ( melancholically ( ? ) speaking ) ..............

Kuston - I am coming to Phoenix JULY 3 thru JULY 6.......Golf on Sat JULY 4 is the only time. I know it will be hot, hot, hot and the fourth-o-July is not great timing either but it is the only day I can 'get away' during this forced family'inlaw' long weekend. Can we do something At Karsten eblm@mci2000.com Let me know asap please.....

D.A. - I trade currencies because these markets have good volatility and I seem to have a decent feel for the trends. I am not immoral......not today anyway ;- ) .....good to see you posting.........thanks bro. go silver ( ! )

trader ed - I am in agreement with whoever said it.....the CAN$ has not yet shown it's lows. And I think the same about the grains too........although I will be going in for some bean meal veeeeerrrrrryyyyy sooooooooon......uh huh. Sugar is still a good play.....more downside not much......imo. And October sugar will be the play........ohmy ( ! )

Earl - I am still impressed..... ( damn ) ........you make a great case for Silver getting knocked down some more. Your daily chart did not look too promising for next week.......nope. We need some more of your good stuff......I like this candlestick talk.

JohnD - I like Iceberg Lettuce. It is good loaded with brocoli and carrots and croutons with your favorite dressing........mmmmmmmmmm good. Had a big bowl tonight in your honor.........no tomatoes...... ( don't like 'em in salad ) ..........

Spock........all discussion can be related to precious metals............use scroll...... ( friendly reminder ) .....live long and prosper.

US$ - wow........the beat goes on.

DJ - thank you for the weekend channels.....they are great......... ( that you post them I mean ) .........tick-tock, tick-tock.

away.......to the charts.....and then the couch.....but not before some ice cream......yum-yum.

Éß


Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:27
blooper (In like manner, the market bottoms out ) ID#207145:
and heads up before the economy.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:27
JTF (Sarin nerve gas used on American Vietnam deserters?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
IDT: That is possible. Strange things happen during wartime, even if that was not a war. What worries me about the timing is that an attempt is being made to discredit US ledership. I am in favor of disclosure of the truth, but some truths are simply destructive -- such as this one.

What seems to be happening appears to be an organized attempt to discredit leadership of any kind. This makes me wonder if there are members of the US government that inherited some of the Nazi mass control techniques post WWII, and are manipulating public opinion. This kind of a consipiracy would be nearly impossible to prove, one way or the other.

It is possible that our government is now so big that it has several shadowy, self-sustaning organizations that do not answer to any particular president or political party. I can only hope that possible secret organizations such as this will fail in the long run. I think our only defense against this is periodic clean sweeps of political parties. We do need a viable political party that can attract a significant part of the public vote. But given the current bullish climate, such a new party will not get enough support until the US markets fade in a big way. So, we must be patient.

On a more positive note, I am pleased to note that our government does indeed still have 3 functioning branches ( in a fashion ) , and that we at least do not have the giant interlocking corporations of Japan and South Korea. If we did not have this economic diversity, we would not have recovered as well as we did since 1991. And, freedom of the press seems to be having a second life -- as exemplified by Matt Drudge. That is a start in the right direction. Lastly we have not yet had our 'crossing of the Rubicon' so things might get better again.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:24
blooper (The market tops out ,) ID#207145:
and heads down befoire the economy does.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:22
blooper (Low rates great at first,Am looking for 10,000.) ID#207145:
Am looking for 10,000. before July 23. Blow off, of course. Then a problem that lasts till Nov.1. Resumption of the problem until 2001.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:18
blooper (CRB Index) ID#207145:
Will fall until Asia starts to improve. The present second leg down leaves a rally followed by the third leg. We are looking at 2002 for a world wide beginning of a recovery process, likely to be nearly as long as the fall. Id say, maby 2001 woulb more accurate. Guess of course, but 99, 2000, don't look good.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:11
pathfinder__A (It's time to start looking for more gold producer consolidation.) ID#170211:
Copyright © 1998 pathfinder__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The PM's may be down, but that doesn't mean that companies aren't looking to consolidate. There are some bargains out amongst us, and you may be surprised at the next announcement.

When you see it, you will realize it makes some sense, and, moreover, you will probably realize that if you had just looked around with even a low power magnifying glass, you would have seen this one coming. The charts and recent stock action won't tell you as much in this case as some careful reading of some 1997 annual reports.

Familiarity doesn't always breed contempt; it may mean a union. 2 + 2 has equalled 5 within the past year or so, and will again. This one will happen soon. If I'm lying, I'm dying.

Date: Mon Jun 08 1998 00:08
JTF (D.A. are you still with us?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I thought you might have some comments on the deflationary twinge we just had had . The CRB spot index ( cry0 ) has been doing down for some time. I ahve been watching this carefully, as it does correlate with our favoriate topic, gold. On a monthly graph of the CRB spot index, there is a 7-10 year cycle evident after we closed the gold window. It appears to me that if the cry0 reaches 200, we will be at a cyclical low, and poised to head up. That 200 bottom might occur in the next 3-6 months. If the cry0 rallies, gold may not be far behind. However, until then we are at risk for more deflation.

What deflationary events could cause the cry0 to bottom? Anoother yuan devaluation, or a Brazil/South America crash. Comments?

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