KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:58
blooper (Aurator) ID#207145:
I haven't changed my mind, as I am aware of anti-american foreign policy, and pro communist, socialist mind set, but i will be more respectful in addressing issues here. I have a quick rabbit punch that i must guard against. As I don't know you, I can't make assumptions. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and ask that you do the same.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:57
Prometheus (@oops! taht = that) ID#223391:
What a mess. But on a happier note, Sam's opened the KB&G, and it's time for a tall cool one.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:55
robnoel__A (Wetgold...a lot of the talk about Y2K is finding a program to solve the problem,however not many are) ID#411112:
talking about the chips that cannot be programed but need to be replaced by manual labour

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:55
Prometheus (@Gollum, re: efficient systems) ID#223391:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Good evening. Actually, I have some anecdotal evidence taht your statement is correct. We have a tremendously inefficient system here on the left coast of the USA. Power grid collapses regularly. So, we don't suffer too much when it does. Unlike Eldorado's store, where the clerks take on that deer in the headlights appearance, our local grocery clerks just pull out pencil and paper when the power goes out, and the shopping goes on. They do round out those tricky fractional produce purchases at $1.19, but that's part of the coping process.

I don't know how many Science Fictions I've read with the theme of the poor humans who lost their smarts by turning over the running of their worlds over to their computers/robots. Problem is I've read just too darned much Sci Fi, but we're well down that particular path, for sure, when half the clerks in the store can't multiply without a calculator.

I guess we're lucky to have this Y2K problem give us a heads-up before we become total luxuriating morons, where a total loss of power support would really mean the end of the world as we know it. Somehow I believe we're going to make it through this Y2K. Sure, it may be hairy, but it's not the end of the world. Fortunately, we can still write, figure and maintain order without our mechanized aids. ( Of course, it may be devastating to the economy. Have you zoned in on the transport sector lately? Even their rallies look like bear market rallies. )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:50
WetGold (Gollum) ID#187218:
What's your view of Western Corporations nudging each other trying to get into China ? If I were a CEO of a major corporation I would be doing the same. Those who are in the right place at the right time will have a good year... any thoughts ...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:49
blooper (WetGold,) ID#207145:
Thanks.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:47
Gollum (another country is heard from) ID#43349:

Disney Names Exec to China Affairs

Friday, June 5, 1998; 10:59 p.m. EDT

BURBANK, California ( AP ) -- The Walt Disney Co. on Friday named
veteran executive John Feenie to oversee the entertainment and media
company's expanding ventures in China.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:37
WetGold (robnoel@23:18,,,,) ID#187218:
Again I must state that I don't know. It depends on many factors including what type devices are the chips encased, is there a production facility to assist, how many people are collectively working on it,,,, ,,,,
I won't attempt to guess because the probability that I am 10% near the reality is a guess in itself....
...
What is the meaning of your question ?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:35
Prometheus (@Just found this, said to be for real -) ID#223391:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The following is a real e-mail sent by the Dean of Student Affairs at M.I.T., where Bill Klinton is scheduled to give the commencement address on June 5.

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:23:45 -0400

Subject: Attire for June 5 Commencement - Message for All Students

From: tha@MIT.EDU ( Thomas H. Adams )

Priority: urgent

Please post in your respective DLC's as appropriate.

There has been some recent controversy surrounding appropriate attire for Commencement. Normally, the Office of the Dean for Student Affairs would not need to take a position on this issue. However, it seems that a substantial number of female students are considering a suggestive and offensive form of dress.

It therefore is necessary for the Office of the Dean for Student Affairs to declare that the wearing of black berets and kneepads by alumnae-to-be at graduation is hereby forbidden.

This dress code will be strictly enforced for all participants in the commencement procession. No exceptions or exemptions will be made.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:32
WetGold (Prometheus,,,, we all luv a good book,,, always looking for new 'Classics',,,) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have a large library in my home - some of it is well documented and reviewed ... below is a sampler ,,,, if you have a particular interest --- let me know and I'll see if I have something for ya'..
.
Hope this isn't too long ...
.
AME_HISTORY
Allen, Gary: 1976. Kissinger: The Secret side of the Secretary of State. ’76 Press.
American Heritage: 1987. History of the Making of the Nation: 1783-1860. Crown Publishers, Inc. ( 1995 )
American Heritage Magazine: 1991. 199 Things every American should know.
Anderson, Bette Roda, ed., et al.: 1973. The Great Northwest - The Story of a Land and its People. American Est Publishing Company.
Baker, Liva: 1969. Felix Frankfurter. Coward-McCann, Inc.
Benet,Stephen Vincent: 1980. John Brown's body. Book-of-the-Month Club, Inc.
Blanton, Linda Lonon: 1983. Intermediate Composition Practice: Book 2 - A text for students of English as a second language. Newbury House Publishers, Inc.
Blot, David, et al.: 1980. Putting it in Writing - Writing activities for Students of ESL. Newbury House Publishers, Inc.
Bowman,John S., ed.: 1989. The Civil War, day by day. Bison Books Ltd.
Calloway, Colin G.: 1995. The American Revolution in Indian Country - Crisis and Diversity in Native American Communities. Cambridge University Press.
Catton,Bruce: 1975. This hallowed ground: The story of the Union side of the Civil War. Pocket Books.
Coit, Margaret: 1950. John C. Calhoun - American Patriot. Houghton Mifflin Company.
Conlin, J.R., et al.: 1986. An American Harvest - Readings in American History, volume 2. Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Publishers.
Crystal, David: 1994. The Cambridge Encyclopedia of The English Language. Cambridge University Press.
Daugherty,James: 1981. The Landing of the Pilgrims. Random House, Inc.
Davis, William C.: 1996. The Battle at Bull Run. The Easton Press.
Donald,David, ed.: 1962. Why the North Won the Civil War. MacMillan Publishing Company.
Eaton, Clement: 1957. Henry Clay and the Art of American Politics. Little, Brown and Company.
FEE.: 1986. The Farm Problem. The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc.
FEE.: 1994. American Unionism - Fallacies and Follies. The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc.
Flynn, John T.: 1965r. While you slept - Our tragedy in Asia and how made it. Western Islands.
Garraty,John A. ed.: 1983. Historical Viewpoints; Volume One to 1877. Harper & Row Publishers, Inc.
Hall, Kermit L, ed.: 1992. The Xoford Companion to theSupreme Court of the United States. Oxford University Press.
Harris,John: 1982. The Boston Globe; Historic walks in old Boston. The Globe Pequot Press.
Hornblum, Allen M.: 1998. Acres of Skin - Human Experiments at Holmesburg Prison. Routledge.
Hyde,Philip: 1987. Drylands: The Deserts of North America. Park Lane.
Johnson, Haynes, et al.: 1968. Fulbright - The Dissenter. Doubleday & Company, Inc.
Joyce, James Avery: 1978. Broken Star - The Story of the League of Nations 1919-39. Christopher Davies ( Publishers ) Ltd.
Linton, Calvin D.: 1975. The Bicentennial Almanac - 200 Years of America. Thomas Nelson Inc, Publishers.
Lothrop,Thornton K.: 1983. William Seward. Chelsea House Publishers
Lukacs,John: 1981. Philadelphia: Patricians & Philistines 1900-1950. ISHI Publication.
Maier, Pauline: 1997. American Scripture - Making the Declaration of Independence. Alfred A. Knopf, Inc.
Malone, Dumas: 1951. Jefferson and His Time - Volume Two – Jefferson and the Rights of Man. Little, Brown and Company.
Malone, Dumas: 1962. Jefferson and His Time - Volume Three – Jefferson and the Ordeal of Liberty. Little, Brown and Company.
Malone, Dumas: 1970. Jefferson and His Time - Volume Four – Jefferson the President, First Term 1801-1805. Little, Brown and Company.
Malone, Dumas: 1981. Jefferson and His Time - Volume Six – The Sage of Monticello. Little, Brown and Company.
McPherson,James: 1982. Ordeal by Fire,Volume I; The Coming of War. Alfred A. Knopf, Inc.
McPherson,James: 1982. Ordeal by Fire, Volume II; The Civil War. Alfred A. Knopf, Inc.
Miller, Nathan: 1998. Star-Spangled Men - America’s Ten Worst Presidents. Scribner.
Morgan,Thomas: 1984. Study guide for Tindall's America, Volume I. W.W.Norton & Company, Inc.
Morison, Samuel Eliot: 1959. John Paul Jones - A Sailor’s Biography. Little, Brown and Company.
Nevins, Allan: 1947. Ordeal of the Union - Fruits of Manifest Destiny 1847-1852, Volume I. Charles Schribner’s Sons
Nevins, Allan: 1960. The War for the Union - War Becomes Revolution 1862-1863, Volume II. Charles Schribner’s Sons
Nevins, Allan: 1971. The War for the Union - The Organized War 1863-1864, Volume III. Charles Schribner’s Sons
Norton,Thomas J.: 1968. The Constitution of the United States - Its Sources and its Application. Committee for Constitutional Government, Inc.
Patterson,Samuel, et al.: 1979. A More Perfect Union: Introduction to American Government. The Dorsey Press.
Patton,George S.: 1994. War as I knew it. The Great Commanders Collection.
Pavlik, Gregory P., ed.: 1996. Forgotten Lessons - Selected Essays of John T. Flynn. The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc.
Quayle,Dan: 1994. Standing Firm. Harper Collins. ( autographed in Boca Raton )
Richardson,James D. ed.: 1983. The Messages and Papers of Jefferson Davis and the Confederacy ( 1861-1865 ) ; Volume I. Chelsea House Publishers
Richards,Kenneth: 1969. The story of the Gettysburg Address. Regensteiner Publishers Enterprises. Inc.
Rubins, Diane Teitel: 1980. Scholastic’s A+ Guide to Good Writing. Scholastic Inc.
Schurz,Carl: 1980. Henry Clay; Volume 2. Chelsea House Publishers.
Smart, Ted: 1978. California - A Picture book to remember her by. Crown Publishers, Inc.
Smart, Ted: 1979. Washington State - A Picture book to remember her by. Crown Publishers, Inc.
Smart, Ted: 1979. Texas - A Picture book to remember her by. Crown Publishers, Inc.
Styron,William: 1967. The Confessions of Nat Turner. Random House, Inc.
Storey,Moorfield: 1983. Charles Sumner. Chelsea House Publishers.
Strode, Hudson: 1959. Jefferson Davis - American Patriot, A Biography of the Years before the great conflict 1808-1861. Harcourt, Brace and Company.
Strode, Hudson: 1959. Jefferson Davis - Confederate President. Harcourt, Brace and Company.
Strode, Hudson: 1964. Jefferson Davis - Tragic Hero, The last twenty years 1864-1889. Harcourt, Brace& World, Inc.
Sumner, William Graham: 1980. Andrew Jackson. Chelsea House Publishers.
Thomas, Lately: 1968. The first President Johnson - The Three lives of the seventeenth President of the United States of America. William Morrow & Company, Inc.
Thomas, Helen Shirley: 1960. Felix Frankfurter - Scholar on the Bench. The John Hopkins Press.
Tindall,George: 1984. America: A Narrative History, Volume I. W.W.Norton & Company, Inc.
Tindall,George: 1984. America: A Narrative History, Volume II. W.W.Norton & Company, Inc.
Tindall,George, et al.: 1993. America: A Narrative History, Brief Third Edition. W.W.Norton & Company, Inc.
Watson,Harry L.: 1990. Liberty and Power - The Politics of Jacksonian America. Hill and Wang.
Webster,Charles: 1994. Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant - Volume 1. The Great Commanders Collection.
Weinberg, Julius, et al.: 1978. The Social Fabric; American Life from the The Civil War to the Present. Little, Brown and Company, Inc.
Winkler, Anthony C., et al.: 1988. From Reading, Writing. Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Inc.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:30
6pak (What can one say @ Government policy 1800s, or God policy) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Native abuse victims welcome court victory

VANCOUVER ( CP ) -- Victims of physical and sexual abuse at native residential schools in British Columbia are celebrating a court victory in their fight for justice.

One of 27 people who filed a damage suit against the United Church of Canada and the federal government for abuse at a Vancouver Island school said Friday he cried for hours after hearing about the B.C. Supreme Court ruling.

We've heard governments and all the churches apologize for what happened in the schools, said Peter Grant, a Vancouver lawyer who represents most of the plaintiffs.

Now the courts have said, 'Yes. You have apologized. You are also responsible.'

There were 18 Indian residential schools in British Columbia and more than 80 across Canada.

They were run by churches under contract to the federal government from the early 1800s until the mid-1980s.
http://www.freecartoons.com/NationalTicker/CANOE-wire.School-Abuse.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:28
gagnrad (blooper, Gollum and all) ID#43460:
Sorry, I got involved in watching a Woody Allen movie. I think I'll leave Mr. Buffet's silver and Jack Daniels for another day. Woody is, as usual, talking about weird things and fornicating all over the screenplay. guess its just decadant Mericanism, but his acting is golden. G'night

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:27
Gollum (efficiency) ID#43349:
Information transfer and processing becomes ever more efficient
each day in this age. I saw a mathematical proof once upon a
that the more sophisticated and efficient any system was the
mor catastrophic any failure would be.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:25
RJ (..... Potato Pontifications .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Former 223 who is now unpronounceable -

Wonderful sites which I will fall into perusal upon my return from abroad ( I always wanted to talk that Twenties crap, I like it! Gotta’ get me one of those hats too.. ) Perhaps I should break out the scanner and post a reasonable facsimile of this ever so fine bottle-o-potato bliss.

The Founder Of the Distillery is now looking properly stern at this suggestion so I now withdraw it..... Sorry….

Re Jack Daniel’s: I am convinced it has the ability to regress human evolution and gives birth to atavistic tics better left buried under millennia of adaptability.

Also -

Gollum asked: Does anyone have anything special planned for 6:06:06 am tomorrow morning?

Ain’t tellin’…. I may be marking Beasts.… I may not. I can neither confirm nor deny….. ( And the Beast ain’t talkin’ neither ) …….

EJ -

We are talking STOBRAWA potatoes here, pal! The finest on Earth! Ask the Stobrawians, they will attest to this, for they grow them with strength and courage and lots of bending. This is the noblest of tubers: The STOBRAWA!

Indeedyski


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:23
downunder__A (6Pak-thanks.) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:19
NoMoLibs (Airlines and Y2K) ID#335196:
Copyright © 1998 NoMoLibs/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Was in Memphis last Sunday, May 31. I became aware of a

flight on a particular carrier ( who shall remain nameless

to protect the guilty party ) that had been delayed several

hours because of a computer failure. Hearing the reason

for the delay caught my attention and, having some contacts

in the business, I later inquired into the particulars of

the situation.

Turns out the computers were down company wide for nearly

7 hours that day causing utter confusion within the company.

To the best of my knowledge they had 2 systems they normally

used: One system ( program? ) controlled reservations and cus-

tomer service matters and was working normally. The other

system provided critical information to pilots, flight

attendants, dispatchers, load planners, schedulers, weight

and balance personnel and numerous other personnel within

the company.

Apparently, flights already airborne were able to proceed

normally to their next destinations after

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:18
aurator (There's a whole world in a book.....) ID#257148:
Wetgold
One last recommendation

Longitude by Dava Sobel. The true story of a lone genius, John Harrison, who solved the greatest scientific problem of his time.

Of particular personal interest, my sea-faring father talked often of Harrison and his chronometers, and stars and navigation.


BTW yesterday was the ( ? ) anniversary of Captain Cook's observation of the transit of venus, near Hawaii, before he came down under and rediscovered ( to be eurocentric ) New Zealand..


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:18
robnoel__A (WetGold...understand this message is coming to you via WebTv...you can't call it a computer) ID#411112:
therefore all I want to know is,hard chips are a burnt in code,therefore you can not just program them...you have to pull them out physically.....if you were given the job of replacing 900,000 chips whats your best guess how long would that take

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:15
WetGold (just started on another book ..... intent to finish it by morning ,,,,, all 297 page including ) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
bibliography and index .... Acres of Skin .... Tuskegee experiment ... American medical establishment ..... testing prisoners ... betrayal of the Hippocartic Oath and Nuremberg Code ...
.
I posted earlier today with my first hand knowledge of 'How a Hospital operates'.... this book fits the pattern BUT I didn't realize the corporate entities were funding experiments in prisons post WWII with gubmint blessings ....
.
.... my ramblings are a results of: Nothing to do and ALL DAY to do it ,,,, a dangerous element in the hands of an enemy ..... but I am a friend ... trust me ...
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:14
6pak (All Is Well @ 80 % trade USofA - Off 28% Japan - Off 52 % other 25% average - Good Eh!) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Trade to Asia down sharply

OTTAWA ( CP ) -- Canada's exports to Asia have dropped by almost a quarter since last July, a result of the Asian financial crisis, the Conference Board of Canada said Friday.

In a report on the world economic outlook, the board said the problems of Asia will affect growth within the G-7 countries during the next two years.

Exporters to the region will be particularly hard hit, the board said. Exports to Japan alone -- Canada's second-largest trading partner -- are off 28 per cent since July and down 52 per cent to the hard-hit countries of southeast Asia such as Indonesia. Business with China has suffered as well and averaged out, trade to the continent as a whole is down by about 25 per cent.

However, the United States, which accounts for 80 per cent of our exports, may already be showing some signs of an Asian slowdown and that will eventually hurt Canada.

Although U.S. unemployment remained at a 28-year low of 4.3 per cent Friday, 26,000 American factory jobs disappeared.

On a brighter note, the Conference Board said exporters will be able to cash in on the fact that the Canadian dollar has been weaker against the U.S. dollar.
http://www.freecartoons.com/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.Economy-Exports.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:11
Prometheus (@Auratorious amongst us) ID#223391:
Thanks for the book review. Have it on the list. Will order it next week.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:08
downunder__A (gagnrad -22:25- YEP) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:07
Gollum (@tolerant1 ) ID#43349:
Mr. Buffets operations have always been solid in concept meticulously
thought out and extremely effective.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:04
WetGold (robnoel,,,,) ID#187218:
No clue. Here you are dealing with politics - and you are smart enough to know the answer to that one... I have dealt with military personnel over the last 12-15 years and I must say - some of these young engineers working on Aegis RADAR and satellite technologies are Really Sharp!... they learn quickly and ask appropriately well thought-out questions ..... it's ashame that they are caught between their careers and the politicians.

Do you have any specifics...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:02
aurator (La belle France.) ID#257148:
-
blooper
In my misspent I hitch-hiked through Europe, this story comes from Normandy. I was picked up by Charles, a truck driver and taken about 60 kms. In that time, he told me how, as a child, he was one of the few survivors from a nazi atrocity in his village. He saw a baby crucified across the doors of his village's church, he wept, as did I as we drove through the ancient villages. A hundred thousand stories like this are still told every day. European Unification? I don't think so.

Later, a friend hitch-hiking in the south of France, just after the French Gobmint blew up the Peace vessel Rainbow Warrior in the Port of Auckland, walked into a small café for a glass of wine. He did not reach the bar before someone noticed his kiwi patch on his back-pack. He was greeted by a chorus of apologies, many had fought the nazis alongside New Zealanders. He was unable to purchase anything that day, the townsfolk gave him food and wine, shelter and entertainment.

Some gobmints, like some religions, need to be reminded that they serve the people, not vice versa.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 23:00
6pak (Labour Demands @ A Fair day's work for a fair day's pay OR Corporate Demand?) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
FOCUS-UAW

FLINT, Mich., June 5 ( Reuters ) - About 3,400 union workers struck a key General Motors Corp. metal stamping plant here on Friday, threatening a cascade of assembly plant shutdowns that could put a dent in the U.S. economy.

UAW Vice President Richard Shoemaker added that GM was pursuing an America Laststrategy by building new plants in China, Thailand and Mexico while it cuts back in Flint, which stands to lose 11,000 jobs in the next two years.

But Donald Hackworth, the GM vice president who oversees the Metal Fabricating Division, said GM was investing $21 billion in its U.S. operations from 1997 to 2001 -- more than in the rest of the world comined.

GM didn't invent globalization. It is fundamental to our business and a fact of life, he said. The Daimler/Chrysler merger is just one more example of this.

He said GM was a never-satisfied, greedy corporation that basically has no concern or care for working families. He wanted to show his daughter that sometimes working people have to fight for what they believe in.

GM accused the union of failing to live up to agreements made three years ago to implement new work practices that would make the plant more efficient and said it was concerned that some UAW members at the plant are not working full days.

We do expect a fair day's work for a fair day's pay,

GM spokeswoman Mary Irby said.

It's imperative that the local union cooperate with us to get rid of work practices that keep us from running our machines at their full capacity and realizing their full potential.

GM's stock slipped 19 cents to $75.25 in composite New York Stock Exchange trading. C.N
http://www.freecartoons.com/ReutersNews/AUTOS-GM-2NDLD.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:59
robnoel__A (Wetgold....answer this...Dept.of Defence says it has +- 900,000 hard chips....how long do you think ) ID#411112:
it would take to replace all of them

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:59
WetGold (blooper ,,,, belated welcomes to ya') ID#187218:
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:57
WetGold (t1,,,,, earlier in the day I had posted (rather parenthetically) that I would like to see ) ID#187218:
a gathering of Kitcoites in a roaring twenties ballroom as in The Shining.... one additional requirement that I must insist on is that NO ONE can use formal names ,,,,, only the names we know and love here .... my name tag will read 'WetGold'....... ( which btw is an interesting story that I will reveal in about 43 years - after statute of limitations ... )
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:55
Prometheus (@Hey, Sam!!!!) ID#223391:
Are you opening the KB&G tonight?


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:53
tolerant1 (Gollum, Hmmmmmmmmmmm...I had thought that might be the reason and in) ID#373284:
addition I thought had he been purchasing more there...it would tough for anyone to know how much silver he had. Hmmmmmmmmm...from what I have heard he paid cash...so if he wants all of the silver...he is not worried about paper burning...

He did not get where he is today by being stupid...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:52
WetGold (aurator,,,, thank you ,,,,) ID#187218:
I will increase my library with these as well.......
.
I can't see Bill Kristol doing a review, though........... Black-Scholes models ,,,, Goedel, Escher, Back from Hofstaedler ,,,, it is all coming back ,,,,,,,,,
,

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:47
blooper (Kitco is a great place,) ID#207145:
I have only been posting for a week. Watched for eight months or so. Have already insulted the French etc, have generally been inconsiderate numerous times, exhibiting ego and lack of understanding, But I have greatly enjoyed this bunch of wild and crazy guys. Ihave a French name by the way, and have found some embarrasment concerning foreign policy stance of some of my ancestors.Nothing personal, as I know our poster from France, has great Elliot waves. We must all live and let live with everyone even the massa. I lie. Anyway, it is nice to cue up and catch you dudes.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:46
Gollum (@tolerant1) ID#43349:
Mr. Buffet is a discrete man. One can be more discrete in London
than in thr land of leaks.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:45
tolerant1 (WetGold) ID#373284:
tolerant1@email.msn.com Just let me know, welcome anytime. Or if you can, some folks from Kitco will be here in August, I hope to post the information and such by next Wednesday and will keep posting right up to K-Day...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:43
Gollum (@gagnrad) ID#43349:
Perhaps Mr. Buffet is reading through the day's Kitco postings,
looking for new ideas.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:42
aurator () ID#257148:
-
Wetgold

Book recommendation: Against The Gods - The Remarkable Story of Risk. Peter Bernstein. John Wiley.
Reviews on Jacket: This looks like a new classic to me. Barton Biggs Morgan Stanley.

It's a sizzler. Charles Kindelberger author of Manias, Panics & Crashes. That last book is very good also, has an excellent chapter on Moral Hazard and comparisons of domestic and International propgation.

Other reviews
A fascinating and unusual perspective on modern man's Promethean attempt to master risk. The book reads easily and provokes though - a rare combination. William Kristol The Weekly Standard.


An inspiring journey through the history of mathematics and cosmology from first principles, through to the holes in the Black-Scholes.
aurator, bookworm, critic, gabby bastard.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:39
tolerant1 (WetGold, although, rich or poor, no matter where anyone is from, ahhhhhh, a) ID#373284:
little bag of freshly roasted chestnuts purchased from someone with a smilin face at a street cart on a cawwwner, and a walk, window shopping for nothing in particular save the conversation, cool winter air, ( dirty snow is a given, high quality aspect of NY ) and simply listening to the hustle and bustle of the city...nothing like it on the planet.

The book is excellent and a view into the future after The Great Reckoning...namaste'

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:38
WetGold (tolerant1,,,, be careful out there among those 'english' ,,,, someone like me arrives ) ID#187218:
by night to scope the landscape ,,,,,, how do I leave my mark ,,,, I will inform you of my presence by summers end ,,,,

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:37
blooper (Gagnrad,) ID#207145:
You and old blu eyes.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:36
EJ (@tolerant1 on whining, RJ on vodka) ID#45173:
tolerant1, vote your choice between Bush or Clinton. At the end of each of their terms, will the gap between the richest and poorest be more or less? Recall Bush not Clinton raised taxes. My rich Republican friends love Clinton, hate Bush. He let them down.

RJ, Chopin's good sh*t. Potato vodka is the best... smoooooth. Keep it in the freezer.

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:34
gagnrad (RJ) ID#43460:
Am I the only one here who is a fan of Jack Daniels? I guess it is an aquired taste like that for pictures of ancient coins and artifacts.
http://indigo.ie/~nmi1/museum/gold.html
http://www.gla.ac.uk/Museum/HuntMus/MoneyAndMedals/cgintro.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:34
WetGold (ALBERICH__A) ID#187218:
enuff said...
.
The place is wonderfully exciting and breathtaking... Is it a place you'd visit given the chance ?
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:33
RJ (..... Ole' .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Ole’ -

Ignore this post:

Silverbaron ( Ole'@ bad.news. ) ID#273432: I hate to say it, but my gut feeling is that you actually have ZERO ounces silver stored at Wilmington, and that's why they are closing you ( and everybody else ) out.... A. Goose and Arden - What do you think about this situation? Is Wilmington Trust a paper game

But rather consider:

There is lots of silver in Wilmington, count on it. If you are worried, e-mail me. Option three is the best, unless you are in profits - which is unlikely in the current market. The whole thing can probably be handled with a fax ( and a check if you still owe them some storage ) I’ll have it transferred before the week is out. You will sleep better, yes?

rjd@pacbell.net

Yes


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:33
blooper (Siege mentality,) ID#207145:
May it be exortcized from our minds. At least for half an hour!!!!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:32
tolerant1 (WetGold, Taylor Road Beach, behind the white gates when I was slummin it or) ID#373284:
116 C. Park South, turn right and have Freddy at the St. Moritz make sure the prime rib was perfect or we made the chef listen to bad jokes...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:32
WetGold (tolerant1,,, I am not familiar with this BUT I value your advice and will order it before I leave,,,) ID#187218:
,,,,, I will provide a full report when I return,,,,, Sir!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:32
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: Your 21:21 O.K. Let's drop it; we disagree on the Y2K Issue and) ID#254112:
we both don't take it personal.

No matter what your position on the Y2K problem is, I liked your picture of NeuSchwanstein anyhow.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:31
blooper (Gagnrad.) ID#207145:
Your point is well taken. I concur.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:29
WetGold (ahhhhhhh Huntington,,,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
Huntington Beach,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the station,,,,,, huntigdon Valley is not close ,,,,,,,,,, i can almost smell the Gyros and Souvlaki in Astoria ,,,,,,,,,, the knishes of Manhattan ( with mustard ) ......

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:28
blooper (Tolarentl,) ID#207145:
I can tell that we are in agreement on massa, and who really owns the plantation. When the rightful owner comes for him, he might harken back to Mussolini.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:28
tolerant1 (gagnrad, Namaste') ID#373284:
I am still wonder why he shipped it to England...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:25
gagnrad (Not wishing to change the subject away from the pessemistic friday talk) ID#43460:
but I wonder what Mr. buffett is doing tonight? Could he be reading a novel, perhaps the Maltese Falcon, or a short story, maybe Poe's s story about the gold bug? Maybe he's looking at an old National geographic featuring King tut's treasure? I think if I were him I'd buy another hundred million ounces of silver and a couple of tons of gold to salt away for a rainy day. IMHO

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=BRKa%2C+BRKb%2C+BRK1L01&d=t

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:25
blooper (I get so agrivated with Spin masters. Goebels, ) ID#207145:
had nothing on these guys. I will lighten up, as this messes up my carma, and a great economy allows vermin to continue.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:23
3-cubed (@ROB 20:23 POST) ID#344239:
THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS PRIVATE AND THEY MAKE MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:23
tolerant1 (blooper, he might think its his) ID#373284:
but he is soon to be re-awakened...WetGold...The Sovereign Individual by James Dale Davidson and Lord Rees-Mogg...great book

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:20
WetGold (don't know what to do with myself ....) ID#187218:
I've been so busy earning my grub over the past 3 months .... all reports finalized last Wednesday and lotsa time on my hands before VAC ... multiplexing my reading material and just finished Thoughts of Chairman Buffett ..., and Benjamin Graham's The Interpretation of Financial Statements...................... looking for new material that is not scientfic in nature .......... any suggestions .......... travel time coming in less than a week ........ need to relax and wind down ....... help ,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,
,,,,,

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:20
tolerant1 (WetGold, could not resist that one.) ID#373284:
Huntington...40 minutes by car 14 minutes by motorcycle...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:19
RJ (..... Wilmington Silver .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Don’t know where the worries got started about Wilmington, but I moved a few hundred thousand ounces in and out of there in the last couple weeks.

Wilmington has been sold and we are getting calls from people wanting to switch their storage, or leverage account to us. From what I can find out, it is just a matter of a letter directing Wilmington to transfer the silver to our account. There are zero shipping costs for the transaction.

Perhaps it is the sale and transfer that has people asking these questions, but I can assure you, there is lots-o-silver there. ( I know, we own a significant portion of it )

OK


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:18
blooper (Tolerantl,) ID#207145:
What a fine plantation the massa Clinton has, What with all the fine hands with which to do demo dirty work. Ask one. He has never been wrong. O.J. neither.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:16
robnoel__A (RJ....taste is relative after a few...who cares about the stinking taste) ID#396249:

/

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:15
WetGold (oh Mr. tolerant1,,, I was not asking where he was this evening,,,, the traffic) ID#187218:
was so light this evening here that I decided to look through the archives and see the lastest postings ,,,, I got to Bart's public area lickety-split,,,, aside from that,,,, I know Saturday's several days away ,,,,

btw: while on the island that is long have U ever ventured to H?str? U ... was there years back ... nearby are ya'
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:15
blooper (Clinton Demo massa,) ID#207145:
with millions of supporters bought and paid for by taxpayers, without their permisson. Kinda like the union contributions to massa.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:14
tolerant1 (blooper, Namaste' that is not slavery, it is an addiction) ID#373284:
and the government is the DEALER MAN...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:09
blooper (OTHER THAN THAT,) ID#207145:
No problem!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:07
blooper (Why some like Clinton.) ID#207145:
They think he may send them some MIDDLECLASS WELFARE. Demos have certair element of society picking cotton for the government. The slavery that still exists is a welfare check for a vote.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:06
RJ (..... Vodka Ruminations .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Oris -

Cracked open a bottle-o-vodka this eve and will have my semi-monthly shot or two. Am trying a new vodka that you will probably sneer at. At the risk of prompting that sneer, may I have your opinion on the brand? ( he asked ever so politely )

The stuff is called Chopin and is touted to be straight from a Fine Polish Distiller older than Christ, and further still, is made exclusively from Stobrawa Potatoes. So there.

Am I experiencing the finest life has to offer in the way of libation, or am I hiding in the dark shamelessly swilling rock-gut squeezed out of rancid potato peelings the hogs wouldn’t eat? Before you respond, be aware that it is a very artsy bottle, with etching and frosted glass and an important looking drawing of the Founder of the Distillery. The packaging is impressive and probably responsible for at least 40% of the $30 price tag for the damn bottle.

One more thing:

It has a cork.

Huh? A cork, aye? Must be good……..

Indeedy

PS

It DOES taste great, but I can’t trust my own impressions in this matter; I am swayed too much by the pretty packaging. If it looks goooood, it MUST taste better, yes? The same is true when you wash your car; it purrs and hums like it just had a tune-up the minute you wipe the bugs off the headlights. It is a mystery.

Yes


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:03
blooper (POLITICS,) ID#207145:
Many tics in a very small area sucking blood. And we wonder why Americans have no intrest in politics. The irony here is that POLITICIANS are screwing them, WITH THEIR PERMISSION. Without vigilance they will be screwed over and over, until the system itself is f88ked up.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:01
tolerant1 (WetGold) ID#373284:
Psssst.....Pssssst...over here....yeah...its me...its Friday night...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 22:01
gagnrad (6pak you misconstrue) ID#43460:
I'm not anti government. I believe that a well founded and well controlled government is neccessary for a number of reasons. I merely dislike arbitrary abuse of power. IMHO

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:55
WetGold (what ever happened to the much awaited Saturday evenings with ANOTHER ?) ID#187218:
... did his expose' with Centennial and Kosare expose his antics ?
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:46
tolerant1 (The working class did not get screwed.) ID#373284:
They LET themselves be screwed. GET OUT AND VOTE, STOP THE WHINING...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:37
WetGold (BART) ID#187218:
enuff all ready with the 'golden-eagle' play ... let's all kiss and make up ...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:32
6pak (EJ @ 20:34 & gagnrad @ 20:41) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I also view the situation's as both of you. Sad is such a shallow word, to describe the madness that is/will escalate, eh!

When you consider the many outstanding posts, here at Kitco, HOPE is a direct result, of many such positive contributions, by good people.

One wonders, if the possibility exists, that other's ( good people ) in our respective communities will arrive at a place within themselves, to realize that ALL have a right to a quality of life.

Will the good citizen's, rise up against the madness in time? OR, must ALL be cut down, degraded, to the point of desperation, by The Power's To Be ( Corporation's ) .

I suspect and expect, ( fear ) that the task is beyond the vast majority. As a result, we can look forward to a NEW GOD, that will lead the majority into the painless land.

We at Kitco, the type of contributors, that could be considered to be anti-government, will be expendable in the NEW GOD TRIBE. We best DUCK and COVER EH! To get along-Go along, is the present gospel/message.
Take Care

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:28
vronsky (New Wall Street Barometer: the Chicago Bulls) ID#427357:

It will be necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/droke060698.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:21
WetGold (ALBERICH__A@19:20) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I still don't understand why you are angry over this.

You are attacking me for not answering a question that is impossible to answer... a paradox that despite several attempts by me to answer it precisely turns toward personal attacks as to my positions on Y2K... the facts are that I am paid to perform analysis that affects possibly millions of consumers and you want me to answer a question that uniformly describes how to test embedded chips... I then proceed to describe that each consumer, manufacturer, CPE vendor, and application writer has not been able to fully address...
.
the logical reader to all this would conclude that your position is unanswerable because ( 1 ) you won't listen to AN alternative position based on practical AND theoretical experience and ( 2 ) your understanding of the problem is NOT multifaceted - it is not a single-issue problem such as 'how to test chips'.

... The Devil in the details as you put it is such a broad statement - it depends on which details you are discussing ... when I was much younger and 'breaking-down' code I could point to such minutae and detail on the microprocessor level that I could write volumes... those days are gone for me because there are bigger fish to fry... I was the 8080 and Z80 guru in my local work location back then...
.
.
Unfortunately committees are how professionals ( not beauracrats ) deal with extremely complex and large problems. It is very convenient to attack such forums but they are necessary so that minutes can be distributed, documentation made, legal precedence set, and technical papers disseminated throughout the world for further analysis - this is called the 'scientific way'... it is the basis for furthering science...

... you have mentioned operating systems of computers, and in the application software code... Am I to assume responsibility for re-writing the code of UNIX, DOS, WINDOWS-NT, MAC-OS...
.
I draw a tremendous satisfaction from achieving results through professional committees... Professionals are very 'in touch with the details'--- in fact--- many of the details that are being brought forth are from professionals, such as, programmers, software engineers, scientists, educators, etc...
.
Lastly, you post: ... I do not consider it at all a personal problem if someone is not adequately informed about the impact of this problem... ... Are you stating that I am not informed re: this problem ?

btw: Does Bill Gates guarantee that his Windows environment won't crash and lock up your terminal TODAY... NO ... why ?

ALBERICH:,,,, you are for some reason taking this personal... believe me I am not... If you go back and look at your posts and my responses you will see a reasoned approach to answer your questions to the best of my ability... If my words cannot convince you that my intentions are honorable and experience well reasoned, then, we should just agree to disagree on this issue and move forward... There are others on this forum who have agreed to disagree with me on this... nothing personal ... this is just a discussion...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:03
Nicodemus (Hello.. oh uh, go gold !...ah, well as best as it can given the sircumstances.) ID#335379:


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:01
Nicodemus (Hello Prometheus: Sign me up too, please, I will pop in and out tonight, have multiple) ID#335379:
projects this evening. Customer sent me bad components, vendor of other project
did same. I'll be up fixing all night long. I'll leave the light on at KB @ G.

Nicodemus

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 21:01
arby (guns) ID#72316:
a good start

http://talk.techstocks.com/~wsapi/investor/reply-4693454

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:43
FOX-MAN__A (Just to add, Steve Kaplan is Strongly Bullish regarding Gold. His url is at) ID#288186:
www.investor1.com/gmo/ ( you'll have to cut and paste..Fox-Man )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:41
gagnrad (6pak, re the regrettable incident(s) in Colorado) ID#43460:
Copyright © 1998 gagnrad/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think it is very sad that law enforcement officers are killed or wounded in the line of duty every year. It is sad that this happened to the officer in Colorado and I hope the thugs who killed him are apprehended by legal means. FWIW

I saw some video footage of police ransacking a traveler's car while he was being held on the ground by a group of several police. the reporter stated that many autos were being searched and persons held without warrent. So it is also sad that state and federal agencies are using this as an excuse to practice strongarm tactics against travelers passing through that area. Imagine the dismay innocent people must have felt to be stopped and subjected to a hostile search and pilfer operation in the desert sun. IMHO


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:40
James (AWAKEnd from my reverie) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
John Disney-I went for a walk today & a sweet little old Jehovah's Witness lady sold me a copy of AWAKE. Just out of curiosity I asked her if she had heard anything from the BIG GUY about RANGY. Bad news John. She heard that the Big Guy was not very favourably disposed towards any AU Co. shareholders. He seems to be particularly irritated with Rangy shareholders...something about certain individuals being too acquisitive & whining & pleading with him to be made whole. She did say though, that he was more favourably disposed towards ABX shareholders, because they take their losses like real men.

As you know John, I don't really believe in this stuff. But then again, I've never ever heard a sweet little old lady lie. Have you?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:39
FOX-MAN__A (Ole' ; It would be real interesting if you could get the funds to take delivery) ID#288186:
of your Silver at Wilmington Trust. If you have over 10,000 oz's
there, I don't see how they can show only 5,021 oz's being registered.

As a side comment, I read Steve Kaplan's comments and he is now STRONGLY
BULLISH. One of the most recent changes are the Commitment OF Trader's
report that's made him more bullish. Go Gold! Go Silver! I hope next week
is a good week for the metals...BBL Fox-Man

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:34
EJ (6pak: Seriously, the working class has gotten totally screwed for) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
the past 20 years in the USA. They have been pray to the capitalist forces Marx wrote about. Marx stated the problem perceptively with his theory of surplus value. However, his solution leaves a lot to be desired, as history shows. The USA has a long tradition of anti-socialist, pro-individualist populism. This has been actively and effectively mined by capitalists since the 1950s. Clinton represents the interests of capital redistribution from the working class to the capitalist class. Now the anti-socialist, pro-individualist populist torch is carried in the interests of capitalists unwittingly by the anti-government, anti-federalist movement. They are being used. The paradox is plain.
-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:33
Gollum (@Ole') ID#43349:
Maybe you get full value plus triple value for punitive damages less
the legal fees.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:29
Rob (correction to my prior post) ID#410114:
Copyright © 1998 Rob/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I failed to seperate Sequins post from Mine. I'll do it here.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:23

Rob ( gold standard ) ID#410114:

Copyright © 1998 Rob/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:27

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

SEQUIN ( DEFLATION AND GOLD ) ID#25171:

Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The latest exemple of a real deflationary era is the crisis in the early 30's.

At that time the concept of money supply management didn't really exist as the three main

world powers ( USA, UK , FRANCE ) were still on the GOLD standard ( except for some

time in the UK in 1929 1930 and in the US when FDR was elected )

When FDR decided to go off the GOLD standard and allowed GOLD ownership for

industrial purpose only

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Rob starts here

The US NEVER, in its history, was on a gold standard. If it were, there would be no article in

the constitution that gave congress the right and responsibility to regulate the value of the

currency. Notice, the only value of a gold standard, is that one, if in existance, would remove

political pull from monetary matters. For there to be a gold standard, currency would have

to be of private issue, not Government. The reason there have been currrency crisis in the US,

through out our history, is becase the US was officially ( wink, wink ) on a gold standard but

not really. The US is on as much of a gold standard now, as it ever was ( excepting taxes ) .

As long as congress has the responsibility ( or ability ) to regulate the currency, there will be

no gold standard possible in the US.

Anyone who watches this site can see there are all sorts of tensions in the dollar/gold cross

rate and as in the past, there will probably be fireworks in the gold market, both up and

down.

This would also, today, apply to any gold backing that the Euro may offically have.

Return to Kitco Homepage


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:26
kiwi (whip around for Ole?) ID#194311:
hey guys let's call the bluff and have a collection for poor Ole so he can front up to Wilmington with the dinaroos to pay off his silver loan and force their hand in the silver paper game....I'll put in one ounce of silver...delivered by pigeon post.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:23
Rob (gold standard) ID#410114:
Copyright © 1998 Rob/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:27

SEQUIN ( DEFLATION AND GOLD ) ID#25171:

Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The latest exemple of a real deflationary era is the crisis in the early 30's.

At that time the concept of money supply management didn't really exist as the three main

world powers ( USA, UK , FRANCE ) were still on the GOLD standard ( except for some

time in the UK in 1929 1930 and in the US when FDR was elected )

When FDR decided to go off the GOLD standard and allowed GOLD ownership for

industrial purpose only

The US NEVER, in its history, was on a gold standard. If it were, there would be no article in the constitution that gave congress the right and responsibility to regulate the value of the currency. Notice, the only value of a gold standard, is that one, if in existance, would remove political pull from monetary matters. For there to be a gold standard, currency would have to be of private issue, not Government. The reason there have been currrency crisis in the US, through out our history, is becase the US was officially ( wink, wink ) on a gold standard but not really. The US is on as much of a gold standard now, as it ever was ( excepting taxes ) . As long as congress has the responsibility ( or ability ) to regulate the currency, there will be no gold standard possible in the US.

Anyone who watches this site can see there are all sorts of tensions in the dollar/gold cross rate and as in the past, there will probably be fireworks in the gold market, both up and down.

This would also, today, apply to any gold backing that the Euro may offically have.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:22
Ole' (This is addictive...) ID#232328:
Was leaving but then read some of your responses after mine... It dawned on me... if I was to get the money needed before the 19th and called Wilmington Trust and told them that I'm taking possesion of MY MY MY bullion... where would they get those thousands of ounzes to deliver ( note: metals will be shipped via US Postal Service on a registered, insured, COD basis ) if they say they have only 5021 oz left

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:19
plaintalker (US Postal systerm) ID#217338:
Received 2-3 day priority mail today, 9 days after sender's postmark.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:18
Silverbaron (WILMINGTON TRUST POLL) ID#288295:
Not to get too personal, but would anyone else like to volunteer information about silver that they ( supposedly ) have in storage at Wilmington Trust? This may be very important information for us. TIA.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:17
6pak (EJ @ 19:51) ID#335190:
Satisfaction! Base ball bat eh!

There's something about guns. Hmmmmm

Could be all about efficiency, not at all about low self-esteem. Getting the JOB done, within a quick, effective manner. Sad, that workers go to the job in the morning, and will never return home. Lot of pressure on ALL, that are serving the economic master/monster.
Take care

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:14
kiwi (Paper games with PM stocks...) ID#194311:
sounds like a repeat of the fiasco on comex that ended up with SBC getting bombed, pulling out of gold there for good...and then merging with UBS...whole thing was hushed up methinks, who knows if there's any silver, gold there at all? It seems they move around huge amounts in short time when options expiration rolls around...easier to move around on paper than in reality.....get real get physical.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:13
EJ (Prometheus: It's newsworthy when someone kills someone ) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
with something other than a gun. I mean, if you're venting superego rage, a sledgehammer's got to be a rush. A gun is so, so... wussy. You pull this little trigger and something happens far away from you, like an economic collapse in Asia, that doesn't concern you too much. Did you ever see the movie Braveheart? Those guys hacked and bludgeoned each other to death face to face with heavy metal doo-dahs. Now THAT'S fighting! Ever read Homer's Iliad? Those guys drank a lot of wine and fought naked with swords and shields. Brave? Maybe. Drunk? Definately! In any case, they'd have thought guns were a girl's weapon, I bet. That's why it's cool when someone doesn't use a gun these days.

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:11
ROR (SOCIALIST REVIEW) ID#412286:
I celebrate and hope for Clinton's downfall. He is the best thing that has happened to the anti labor movement since Herbert Hoover. Only with Clinton's downfall and that of the New Democrats can class related problems ( which are growing ) be addressed. As a progressive Democratic Socialist GO KEN STARR GET CLINTON we lOVE ya!! THE SOONER CLINTONISM FALLS THE BETTER FOR WORKING PEOPLE.`

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:11
Ole' (10 business days left before the 19th) ID#232328:
Well, I'm going to dinner, but I'll be reading your posts throughout the weekend and see if helpful information comes around the corner. I'll try calling Morgan Stanley or the other depository and see what they say...

Maybe these will become the Ten days that shook the world for silver and silver will go up nicely so at least I get out with an honorable profit after sitting on it all these years. At least I'll be able to take a maximum tax investor loss every year for the next umpteen years!!!!

Later and Thanks for all your info... HI-HO-SILVER!!!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:08
FOX-MAN__A (Gollum, Silverbaron, Ole'; Silver Comments) ID#288186:
I recall some previous posts, especially by A.Goose that questioned
these warehouse stocks and how they may being playing numbers games with
eligible vs registered. I think you may have something, Gollum and
Silverbaron... Fox-Man

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:08
Silverbaron (Ole'@ bad.news.) ID#273432:
I hate to say it, but my gut feeling is that you actually have ZERO ounces silver stored at Wilmington, and that's why they are closing you ( and everybody else ) out.... A. Goose and Arden - What do you think about this situation? Is Wilmington Trust a paper game

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:04
kiwi (slick willy is definitely bent ....let the courts decide.) ID#194311:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
INVESTIGATORS RULE OUT PHYSICAL EXAM OF PRESIDENT

**Exclusive**

THU MAY 28 1998 13:49 EDT -- Investigators in the Monica Lewinsky probe have ruled out a physical examination
of President Bill Clinton, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. During conversations with former co-worker Linda
Tripp, Lewinsky shares details of her personal sexual contact with Bill Clinton -- conversations caught on
tape describing the President's sexual anatomy in graphic detail!

The White House is aware of the claim, it has been learned.

The DRUDGE REPORT has been briefed on the highly embarrassing information that quickly became off-limits to
investigators out of concern that such graphic description of a sitting President of the United States would
become an instant public relations nightmare.

[Starr's office] is not going to ask for a physical examination to verify Monica Lewinsky's description...,
one well-place source tells the DRUDGE REPORT. It would be seen as absolutely reckless and would risk the
entire investigation.

The source insists that a physical exam will never occur, even at any potential trial.

Individuals involved with the case remain concerned that the Lewinsky description of Bill Clinton's anatomy
may find a less-official outlet.

It's one of the ticking time bombs, notes a lawyer familiar with Starr's evidence.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:02
Gollum (@Ole',Silverbarron) ID#43349:
Could they be desperate to raise liquidity? Is this possibly
the news story of the year?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:02
6pak (Guns & Survivalist's @ Anti-government views ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Police Identify 3 Men Sought in Cop Killing

BY MICHAEL VIGH and
PHIL MUELLER
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

Police searching an area along the Colorado-Utah border for the killers of a Cortez, Colo., police officer released the names Tuesday of three
suspects.

The fugitives are described as holding anti-government political views, but police say they do not believe they are members of any paramilitary or other extremist organizations.

Meantime, Colorado Gov. Roy Romer declared a state of emergency as a result of the officer's killing. The order will make more state funds available for the manhunt.
-- The Associated Press contributed to this report.
http://www.sltrib.com/1998/jun/06031998/utah/36704.htm

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 20:00
EJ (@All: There's hope! The blind can see!) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A good friend who runs a biz on the left coast of the USA has been a die-hard stock market optimist. He's got the family jewels and more in there. Told me he's sure it will go up again no matter how far it goes down. He's a great guy and no wuss, races motorcycles, jumps put of planes, marries women, *hit like that. But he's preoccupied with other matters. He asks me if I'm short in the market:

-------
-Yes, I'm short. And this is perverse for an optimist like myself who
-goes to start-ups to take a long shot at the upside. It takes optimism
-to do what you do, too -- to run a business. I hope your optimistic
-nature does not cloud your judgement on the stock market. It kept me
-confused for a while but now it's clear.

God, how nicely you put that. I'll consider.
-------

Now is that great or what? Think I'll have some more of oris' vodka.

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:59
Prometheus (@EJ) ID#210235:
Actually, I read today that some bozo killed his two kids with a sledgehammer. Maybe it's not guns after all. Wish it were that simple.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:59
Gollum (@Silverbaron ) ID#43349:
If someone has cooked the books or somesuch, perhaps not
at just this one house, does this mean there might not
really not be as much eligible silver available as everyone
thinks?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:58
Prometheus (@FYI - re ICQ) ID#210235:
About 6 weeks ago Bart recommended that we check out ICQ as an extension to this forum. While I haven't yet seen any firefights on ICQ, there have been some interesting discussions.

Send me your number if you want to be on the next listing. See ya!

Here's the link:

http://www.icq.com/

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:56
FOX-MAN__A (Ole' & Silverbaron re; Silver stocks at the Warehouse) ID#288186:
Silverbaron; Very interesting observation. If Ole' does own more
than 5,021 oz of Silver at this Depository, then are they playing
a numbers game with registered versus eligible? If I understand
correctly, registered stocks are spoken for and eligible are not.
Hmmmmmmm. Fox-Man

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:54
Ole' (Silverbarron... I just saw the same thing...what's up?) ID#232328:
Copyright © 1998 Ole'/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Let's just say I have MUCH more than 10,000 oz of silver bullion supposedly at Wilmington Trust... The letter specifically says We are asking that you make arrangements to pay off the balance of the precious metals loan you have with us by Friday, June 19. and then they give me three way outs: ( 1 ) Selling my holdings at current market prices to pay off your loan and have the balance of the proceeds forwarded to you, ( 2 ) take possession ( which I can't come up with the balance lump sum that quickly unless I go to a loan shark ( no way ) , or ( 3 ) Arrange to have another financial institution to pay off your loan at Wilmington Trust and have your loan and your precious metals securing it transferred to that institution.

So... why does Wilmington Trust show 5000 oz when mine way over that

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:53
Prometheus (@Remember ICQ? ) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here's the ICQ list, if the KB&G is open later, I hope to stop in for a cool one.

Aurator - 11944264

Donald - 11928983

Eldorado - 12063388

G-NuTs - 2493116

Hedgehog - 12163846

Hipshot - 9114582

Kitco Bar & Grill - 11998901

Paul - 6118980

Polarbear - 1296586

Prometheus - 11961385

Sam - 11922834

Sharefin - 11918936

Squirrel - 11954224

Steve Blizard - 11925719

Studio.r - 11949731

Tyler Rose - 11940452

Tyro - 12179114

Wombat - 11918911


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:51
EJ (6pak: Don't you know, guns don't kill people, crazy mother f*ckers) ID#45173:
with guns kill people. How come I never read about a postal worker or other poorly managed guy with low self-esteem stabbing his boss to death or whacking him with a baseball bat? Seems like the killer might derive a lot more satistfaction. There's something about guns. Hmmmmm. Wonder what it is. Hmmmmmm.

Duh.

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:44
Rob (y2k) ID#410114:
SEQUIN ( Y2k ) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


A year ago, on a plane trip, I sat next to a guy that writes the software for interbank money transfers. I asked him about y2k and how he was dealing with it. He said I'm not. I then asked how the y2k problem was going to be dealt with. He answered that he he didn't know, but that he thought that someone would. Who? Someone.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:43
Argent (Gollum) ID#255217:
My God! When did this happen? Did the Japanese find any gold?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:43
Good ol' boy (Giddyup) ID#26362:
The juggernaut rolls on...and on. Have a nice weekend all while I am foucusing on tarot cards.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:41
Silverbaron (Ole' AHA ! The Plot Thickens !) ID#273432:
Just checked yesterdays silver COMEX report...the other silver repositories are Scotia Mocatta, Morgan Guaranty, and Republic National. I think chas has a buddy at Scotia Mocatta....the thing that catches my eye, is that Wilmington Trust is showing only 5,021 ounces of silver as registered stocks, and 18,500,000 ounces as elligible stocks....Do YOU own more than 5,021 ounces of silver stored at Wilmington? ..... A. Goose and Arden - help me out here - have we caught these chaps with their undies showing?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:41
Squirrel (EJ & Gollum; Guess it's the Japanese vs the Chinese) ID#287186:
The Chinese now own Fort Knox since the Coward Erect traded them for some campaign contributions and other extracurricular favors.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:40
6pak (Guns & Jobs & Killings @ All is well?) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Employee shoots three managers, self

ALLENTOWN, Pa. ( AP ) -- It was mid-morning on a work day when William Muth Jr. arrived at his sister's house. She asked him if he had the day off from his job at a U.S. Foodservice Inc. distribution centre.

No, not really, he said. I've got some personal business to take care of.

A little later, police said, Muth walked back into the plant and shot three managers Thursday, killing one who was on a conference call with the company president. Then he shot and killed himself.

The company. It employs 12,000 people nationwide and is the nation's second largest company in the $140 billion-a-year food-distribution business.
http://www.freecartoons.com/WorldTicker/CANOE-wire.Food-Plant-Shooting.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:38
Dutchman (Good News In Bad Times) ID#215235:
If you haven't done so this evening, do yourself a big favor and read Steve Kaplan's column at investor1.com/gmo/. He has raised several of his gold indicators to strongly bullish and recommends that this is the time to buy undervalued gold stocks. If he's right, I'll kiss him on the lips...well, maybe a bull hug. Amen

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:37
Gollum (@Silverbaron) ID#43349:
Ooops. I see that you said that. Never mind.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:35
Gollum (@Silverbaron) ID#43349:
Maybe they don't have enough left in stock to generate any
meanigful revenue.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:33
EJ (Gollum: Close but, nope, the newspaper headline reads...) ID#45173:
If it were that easy, you'd be rich you drunken fool!

The gods that don't sleep in on Saturday have a sick sense of humor.

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:32
Gollum (@tolerant1) ID#43349:
Yup.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:30
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43349:
JAPANESE ATTACK FORT KNOX!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:29
Ole' (Yep Silver Barron...) ID#232328:
I've been lurking the Kitco site since inception and have enjoyed the posts, but I am not an expert of any sort in precious metals... just a risk taker, average Joe Consumer and still a lurker... but now...

I find it very suspicious and disheartening that this would occur just when ALL HOPE IS UP and Buffet is on the bandwagon and I was finally seeing the light at the end of the supply/demand tunnel. Damn, it's an oncoming training and their forcing me to jump off and get out of the way!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:28
Gollum (@JTF,Aragorn III ) ID#43349:
Many fund managers are constrained to remain fully or nearly fully
invested at all times. They can just move holdings around. When they
see trouble coming they move as much as they can out of the weaker
stocks into the blue chips. And there are other big portfolio holders
who turn cautious but don't want to leave the market. Also the blue
chip holders feel more secure than the ones with high flyers. Altogeher
it's pretty bearish when the DOW and such move up and the broader
market declines.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:26
EJ (Gollum: 666) ID#45173:
I plan to stay up with friends drinking potato vodka ( gift from oris ) until the wee hours. Maybe we stay up until dawn and howl at the appointed time to those gods that do not sleep in on Saturday: GIVE ME A SIGN! INFLATION OR DEFLATION? OR BOTH? WHATEVER!!

And a newspaper falls from the sky and lands at my feet dated Janurary 13, 2000. What does it say!!!?!?

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:20
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: Your 17:44 The Y2K Devil Sits in the Detail...) ID#254112:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
not in committees. The Y2K devil sits in the chips, in the operating systems of computers, and in the application software code. It's a very ugly, dum, unintelligent little bug. It's easy to correct in application software when it is recognized through thorough and detailed analysis.
But it cannot be tested in embedded chips, and therefore, all applications which depend on embedded chips will enter the Y2K event untested. This is possibly the most serious challenge with which the modern civilization was confronted until now.

I don't want to disturb your satisfaction which you draw from your professional committees. But it wouldn't hurt if you talk to those who are in touch with the details I was talking about earlier in my posts.
This could change your perception of reality as far as the Y2K problem is concerned. I do not consider it at all a personal problem if someone is not adequately informed about the impact of this problem.

If you think that AT&T or the Bell daughters are so sure that the Y2K problem is resolved, why do they all not give any guarantee that they offer Y2K-proof service

And if anyone knows about any telecom company which offers Y2K-proof service, please let me know immediately.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:13
Squirrel (If it is FEMA vs. the Marines - no contest!) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ALBERICH__A and WetGold:
I have read both of your posts with interest and have learned from both of you. Rather than getting your Polemics up let us call this PEER REVIEW. Please do not let this give and take get personal - we {if I may speak for the rest here} value both of you for your insights and experience.

Gunrunner, Tolerant1, Retired Soldier:
I too am a vet - 4 years USAF SAC {my patches are now collectors items}. The only point at issue here is when push comes to shove loyal vets will come out of cul-de-sacs, farms, forests and concrete canyons to defend this nation and its constitution - in spite of the Coward Erect in the Whitehouse. I will proudly throw my lot in with the Marines as long as the Coward's draft-dodging minions do not call the shots.
I do recognize there are vets and present troops not worth the pickle suit issued to them. They are quick to ferret out and deal with when the going gets tough.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 19:13
Silverbaron (Ole') ID#273432:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Your situation with Wilmington Trust really seems to me that more is here than meets the eye.....I hate to be one who sees creatures under every rock - but Wilmington has been in this business a long time, so something must be up. A couple things could be afoot here - perhaps the stockpiles have grown so small that the storage fees aren't profitable for them, or more sinister thoughts would be that they are going out of the business as a COMEX depository because ( 1 ) they don't want to get trapped in litigation when the paper game blows up, or ( 2 ) they are closing to generate some silver liquidity to get the big boys out before the game is up. Unfortunately, part of this liquidity may be YOUR silver.....You can get the names of the other COMEX repositories from the COMEX daily stocks report - click on FWN - Metals at http://www.futuresource.com

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:58
Lou_Jan (TO ALL: FWIW) ID#320136:
Kaplan's comments tonight are very encouragingly optimistic! Hope he's right.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:45
Ole' (JTF... And on top of that...) ID#232328:
Copyright © 1998 Ole'/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Talk about being a sucker... Wilmington Trust charged me $200 renewal fee in late April for the ANNUAL silver loan. When I called them to verify that they would still be the proprietors of my bullion holdings ( because I noticed that the documents now for renewal had a different mailing address but the same account,institution, etc. ) and they told me I had nothing to worry about with my bullion being stored with them... Stupid, Stupid me! I should have gotten it in writing before renewing my loan.
You would think that being their faithful customer over 10 years, I would get some decent warning and the truth!!!! At least a referral from them... I'm not the commedian Kiwi thinks I am... I've just been plained suckered!!!! Anyone with KY so it hurts less

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:42
tolerant1 (America is going to get hammered...the jobs being lost are in manufacturing and) ID#373284:
the jobs propping up the employment figures are in the SERVICE industry. It is a classic...America is screwed...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:40
JTF (Well put) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Aragorn III: I have always enjoyed your posts! I can add something. I have noticed that the DOW and ( I think ) the SP-500 stocks are carefully chosen to give optimal performance -- if a particular stock weakens, it is removed. In fact, I am not sure that if you created a global index where particular stocks were not specifically chosen, that the performance would still emulate the DOW or the SP-500. In essence what I am saying is that if you always chose the top ten stocks out of a group out of a thousand, you stack the decks in favor of bullishness. I dont think that is appropriate, as that gives everyone a falsely optimistic idead of market performance. In fact what that means is that the market index may not turn bearish for some time after the market has actually turned bearish, if you keep choosing only the best performers.

What indexes are broader, and more reasonable indicators? The NYSE? I think the Nasdaq is too computer/hightech weighted to be appropropriate. How about the Willshire Index? I realy don't know.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:34
RETIRED SOLDIER (Gunrunner Your 1600) ID#347235:
Copyright © 1998 RETIRED SOLDIER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You completely missed the point. I simply meant that Former Marines are not the only ones you can count on. I have no complaints about my retired pay or my benefits, I was enough of a realist while on active duty to realize that benefits were already being cut then and will continue to be cut now. I have moved on gotten a life as you say, have a new job with good benefits and ANOTHER retirement plan health care and all of that. I am not complaining about ANYTHING exceept my health which could be a lot better. BUT I am still getting wonderful medical care from a military hospital. If the country needed me on active duty I would return AFTER the next election gladly, before then reluctantly but if the need was there and my Army called I would go.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:33
Aragorn III (Tolerant Your 18:20...HAAAAHA! this is so much fun I'm runnin' late gettin to me pub!) ID#212323:


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:32
vronsky (GOLD & DEFLATION…if history is indeed prologue…) ID#427357:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

A graphical autopsy ( 5 charts ) of the DOW, Utilities and Gold Mining Stocks from 1924 to 1935. The relative performance of paper stocks vs gold mining stocks during the Great Depression is astounding.

Contrary to many present day market analysts' unfounded beliefs,
there was indeed ONE SECTOR which was spared the grinding
deflation of market values during the Great Crash ( 1929 ) and
aftermath: GOLD MINING STOCKS.

The upshot of the detailed report is THE ONLY PLACE TO BE IN DEFLATION WAS IN GOLD STOCKS.

Presently, the Asian Contagion demonstrates all the earmarks of
true DEFLATION. …Turmoil in the Far-East will necessarily precipitate a
true global deflationary credit collapse - as the inter-related banking systems cause the next lower rung on the financial ladder to fail.
Subsequently, this will trigger a run to GOLD and gold mining stocks…

Full report at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/vronsky060698.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:30
Aragorn III (Tol I was born under an August moon) ID#212323:
But I am a strong advocate for practice! Cheers back at ya!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:27
Aragorn III (JTF...ok, I didn't quite make it out the door to the pubs just yet, so I'll reply) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
especially in light of the relative rarity with which my posts generate ANY comments. THANKS.

In my view there seems to be a definate concentration of funds into the stocks that make up the index. There are steep losses to be found throughout the markets if you look at any given company ( with the exception of the DOW and S&P index companies ) . The sheep ( as you eloquently put it ) see in the news that the patient remains alive and well, so they continue to get shorn when they put their money into the market. So much meat has fallen off the bone that soon all that will remain is the skeleton ( the 30 DOW industrials ) in an upright fashion.
When people see how dead the patient has become, not only will they stop putting money INTO the market, they will decide it is time to take money OUT of the market. This is the event the doctors are trying to curtail. Now perhaps if the skeleton could sing and dance, it wouldn't look quite so dead...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:26
JTF (Suspicious timing) ID#57232:
Ole': Sure looks suspicious. Why now, when silver is at its lowest? Are the silver shorts trying to force more liquidations? This sounds like insider manipulation to me.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:23
JTF (Why are these precious metals warehouses closing down?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
A. Goose, Arden, All: Perhaps we are getting another message here -- it is possible someone else has already thought this -- but could it be that the 'paper' traders at the LME and LMBA have been at it for so long, and are so profitable at what they do, what they are causing the more traditional metals houses to close? Is there something fundamentally different between how Comex does business vs the LME and LMBA? Perhaps we are still missing something here.

Perhaps it is not just a simple shortage of silver. Makes you wonder what the LME, LMBA offers that COMEX doesn't -- confidentiality? Bigger market? Lower commissions? More trade options? More derivatives choices?

Perhaps the problem is similar to the problem the gold produceers have when the price of gold is dropping, so the profit margin drops and knocks out the less efficient producers.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:21
Ole' (Thanks JTF... Hey Arden, A. Goose and RJ) ID#232328:
Copyright © 1998 Ole'/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I see what you're getting at JTF, but I would think that a financial institution would not mind having the bullion stored and available at their institution worth say as an example ( made up for now ) of $100,000 as calateral for a $45,000 loan.

Arden, A, Goose, and RJ... any comment on my posting of June 5 at 17:56? Any help

Otherwise Guys... Don't be surprised if there's a flood of silver into the market on June 19 by suckers like me being liquidated by Wilmington Trust!!!! Look at Wilmington Trust's silver storage numbers and you'll see what I mean... Maybe if most of you are right and silver goes to $6.00, I could make some halfway decent profit!!!!

Thanks!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:20
tolerant1 (Gollum) ID#373284:
Yeah, I gotta get my hooves polished...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:18
sam__A (@Foxman re Ag Stocks) ID#286253:

Yeah - this market is really looking good. $5.00 has been well tested, there is fear of heavy trade buying beneath this level and the stocks are approaching once again their all-time lows. This is consistent with what my Friendly Dealer says, namely, that consignment stocks to Asia are back on fire. Are the Marty Armstrong's of this world really gonna try and break it down to $4.50 right now? Or perhaps take some profits and try again another day? If the funds resume their longs next week, we could see some fireworks.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:17
Gollum (numbers) ID#43349:
Someone mentioned a while back that if you multiply 666 by three just
because it happens to be a 3 digit number you get 1998. Well tomorrow
is the 6th day of the 6th month of 1998. Does anyone have anything
special planned for 6:06:06 am tomorrow morning?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:16
TYoung (Ole') ID#317193:
Maybe you ought to let them sell you out and take the tax loss. Then, with your 40% buy contracts at less than 5.50 that allow you time to find another depository. In the meantime arrange a loan for the balance due on the contracts.

Just a thought. Don't know of other depositories. Ask RJ...he is knowledgeable of such things.

Tom

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:16
tolerant1 (ARAGORNIII) ID#373284:
Be this the day...B...day? If so a hearty GIANT GULP TO YA...if not...consider this a practise gulp...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:13
JTF (The DOW ) ID#57232:
Aaragon III: I'm not sure I agree with you about the Dow. There must be some sheep still to be shorn who either cannot smell, or are so desperate to get out of another foreign market that they do not know what they are getting into. Did you notice the lackluster performance of the Nasdaq?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:07
JTF (That's wild! ) ID#57232:
Ole': As I recall the 'customer is always right' so they should have at least given you a transfer option. On the other hand, as I recall with stocks, you cannot transfer to another broker if you don't pay up your margin debt, so the problem could be similar. A. Goose or Arden are our Comex gurus' and know what other places store silver. If I spot either of them posting, I will get their attention. I suggest you do the same. RJ might also have some advice for you. Sorry I couldn't be more help. I am a physicist by trade, not a money expert.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:07
James (tman@You asked me) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
James, even the small insignificant things are noticed by God. In your frame of mind how significant to you are those people that are barely existing?

They are very significant to me & that's why I pointed out the hypocrisy & sacntimoniousness that is common to many self professed religious people.
Then again, I should'nt complain about such a harmless activity as praying for material things. My kids believed in Santa & the tooth fairy right up until around 4 yrs of age.

No, I don't believe all religious people are nuts. But I am cognizant of the fact that some of the most heinous, inhumane acts in history were commited in the name of religion.

I won't post any more on this subject.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:05
Aragorn III (Tol-cool-one) ID#212323:
The time of day ( and week ) is at hand whereby I must depart to raise a mug skyward in an inverted fashion, ensuring that the product of my labor is not partially wasted.
Cheers to ya!

PS. the corpse which is the DOW has been propped up for so long that the other patients are complaining of the stench. The doctors insist that it is beginning to show signs of life again, but the orderlies are quick to point out that the movement is merely the flesh falling off the bones.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 18:04
kiwi (Ole...hope you're comedian) ID#194311:
else you deserve to be taken to the cleaners for usurous loans.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:56
Ole' (Forcing ME to Sell Silver...) ID#232328:
Copyright © 1998 Ole'/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Can anyone provide me with a name and number of a reputable financial institution that will accept my silver bullion ( AND LOTS OF IT ) along with my precious metals balance loan? Do you believe I have been notified by Wilmington Trust Company last week that they are getting out of the precious metals business AND unless I transfer my silver-secured loan account and bullion to another institution, they will liquidate my position and sell my bullion!!! However, Wilmington Trust won't provide me with any names or recommendations. I've been with them for close to 10 years and never imagined that they could do something like this. I have to do this all by June 19. My precious metals loan balance is about 60% of the total worth of my silver holdings. I own the other 40%. I was always paying only the interest on a quarterly basis.

I truly believe that higher prices are around the corner and don't want to be forced to sell Silver that I bought around an average of $5.50 Why couldn't the bank have told me this last January/February when I could have gotten out with such a large profit after holding silver so faithfully for 10 years! I already called Republic National Bank in New York and they would gladly store my bullion if I owned it outright but no precious metal loan business with them. Anyone have financial names and numbers I could call before the sky falls on June 19?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:47
tolerant1 (ARAGORNIII, Namaste' ) ID#373284:
Although I understand it was reported to the appropriate authorities, we all know none of them are proper. Only a few proper ones work within them...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:47
zeke (tman) ID#307271:
Copyright © 1998 zeke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
No funds me, but your silver fund might do well if you hurry. I think we are already in the silver rise, re: the lateral arabesque I mentioned. Don't worry about the God haters ( Isaiah 57-all ) , their works are cast in time like a bug in amber. We all have an appointment to keep, just pray that your's is written in the other book ( Rev 20:12 ) . Most think that the antichrist is some mystical mystery man that we believe will appear in the future. They are unaware that the antichrist spirit dwells richly in them just as the Holy Spirit dwells in the Lord's people ( c.f. 1John 4:3, 1John 2:22 ) . This occupation of the temple ( the human body ) is part of what is referred to in 2Thess 2:4.
Hope you do well with the silver. Just don't forget the name that is more precious than silver.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:46
Donald (@ XAU/AU Ratio fans.) ID#26793:
I was entering historical data into my system today and came across the highest XAU/AU ratio I have found so far. On 5/31/96 the price of gold was $390.90, the XAU was 148.89; producing a ratio reading of .381. That was not a good day to buy.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:44
WetGold (ALBERICH__A@17:07) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Fight ?..... take it personally

Either I am not making myself clear or I am misunderstood by some other means ...

Firstly, YES - I've been to Fussen Germany many times and had ( at one time ) been a student of Wagner, et al.

Secondly, I don't take this personal because when all is said and done no-one can force me to believe something I don't believe myself -- and if I assume that ill-will toward me is justified by a snide comment -then- the fault is mine for believing it. I do however view the content of someones comments and compare them to my understanding of reality and determine if my reality needs to change.

Lastly, I thought I have supplied a detailed explanation of my position and how telecoms and satellite information is handled from a practical viewpoint. It sounds as if you want to play tit-for-tat on how to test discrete components on the micro-code or subroutine level. Many years ago when I was developing tests for in-circuit and functional performance testing using GenRad equipment in the manufacuting and system integration
arena I would have this discussion. However, I've grown from this and because of my experience I am able to look at more core problems that have larger areas of responsibility, zum beispiel, satellites, GPS, and global networked infrastructures. This is not to say the micro-codes in chips are not important - they are indigenous to specific individuals, corporations, manufacturers, etc. I get paid to advise the previous BUT have a greater satisfaction sitting on forums that have greater impact.

when you ask the question ... how do you test an embedded chip... - this is asking me develop a 'unified theory' of testing methodology to ALL embedded chips on the planet. This is a rather large task for anyone and refuse the challenge because it is a losing proposition.

When you post ... I'd like to discuss the proposed problem friendly and publicly with you... ---- I thought that's what we were/are doing. I'm open to more posting to help clarify this issue -because- at this juncture I'm not sure what I can add that would satisfy you. But I'll try my best.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:43
tolerant1 (robnoel_A, Namaste' I did not miss the point...I could drive around right here ) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
on the Island that is Long...through the Apple that pretends to be a city and with a team spend one million cash at intervals on gold, then plant it in the very politicians yards crafting the bills and send the authorities to their homes and see the same expression on their faces as on yours when you read the article they posted when they see their faces in the newspapers.

Like I said, it is window dressing, as they stand on their soap boxes for a gullible public. Now add in the elections in November...

TWENTY YEARS FROM NOW DRUGS WILL BE IN THE UNITED STATES, but their beloved budgets will still grow, nothing will change...nothing...

IF THEY WANTED TO STOP THE FLOW OF DRUGS THEY COULD...THEY DO NOT...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:43
TYoung (LGB) ID#317193:
Tis a quandary at this time. Yes? Quite frankly I may take my loss on Monday on the Dec. contracts if I get nervous. However, I'll probably wait to get stopped out or be surprised.

Take care of yourself and keep some powder dry.

Tom

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:41
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Gold/Silver Ratio = 55.19 ( one ounce of gold will buy 55.19 ounces of silver ) The 50 day moving average is 51.25. A year ago the ratio was 71.15

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:39
Aragorn III (Tolerant1...your 14:48) ID#212323:
...was worth the price of admission today!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:38
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .250 The 50 day moving average is .274 A year ago the ratio was .288. My database contains 19 occasions where the XAU closed in the 72.XX range. Ranked according to the gold price today is #15. The #1 ranking was on 12/29/86 with a gold price of $389.30, an XAU of 72.99; producing a XAU/AU ratio of .187

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:38
buff (EB: Soros Group heavly invested in a major silver mine in Canada and represented) ID#66136:
on the Board of TVX. Certainly I'd expact other PM investments that I have not discovered.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:35
LGB (@ Tyoung....humble apologies) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Oops! That post was a mis-post. I do not see 2-6-9 on the horizon, but was errouneously posting the actual lyric from the song. ( Or was it Three six nine!!!! )

Two-Eight-Nine is what it should have read.....I was doing a repeat of my post from a couple weeks ago, when I used that convention to make the 2-8-9 call. ( Which ocurred early this week....yes )

Now....do I choose HM, or CDE? Or more Saints? Hmmm, they have to compete with Silver though, which I am tepmted to buy more of...or Platinum for that matter.....still sittin here on a lotta cash feelin paralyzed like a deer in da headlights....

And then there'e the 98 Eagle Platinum Proofs which will be avilable for sale next Monday and are a lock ( IMHO ) for rather quick value increase ( due to ultra low mintages planned )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:34
Donald (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 31.01 This is a new high. The 50 day moving average is 29.84. A year ago the ratio was 21.44

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:31
tolerant1 (Gunrunner, Namaste' Given some thought to your 16:00, Hmmmmmmmmmmmm) ID#373284:
Never in, got a life, the cord was cut, life is good...I do not think that was the point of the Retired Soldier or any of the other posters. However, when times of need arise...it is good to have many around that can aid, help and wish to put their best foot forward...for those who may not know what to do...no more, no less.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:29
FOX-MAN__A (sam re: Silver Warehouse stocks/comments) ID#288186:
Copyright © 1998 FOX-MAN__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It's starting to get interesting with another 600,000 depletion in the
Silver warehouse stocks. I extracted the following from a Futures World
News report mid-morning that has some very interesting comments about
Silver possibly popping up to $6. It mentions about these stocking levels
being a good barometer...
***********************************************************************
New York-June 5-FWN--THE PRECIOUS METALS COMPLEX IS weaker so far here this morning
on a day when weakness in the Australian dollar and Japanese yen has hurt the price of gold.

Gold and silver both came in lower, then extended their losses when stop-loss orders were triggered in
the silver market, floor sources said. Silver has since bounced back, although it still remains softer for
the day.

Silver futures were only modestly lower in early trade but within recent ranges, with one floor source
initially describing them as seemingly in a state of equilibrium.

Then the July contract suddenly plummeted to $5.055.

Stops were hit under $5.13, said one trader. Two floor sources reported that Refco was a seller,
while one also mentioned Morgan Stanley.

The ring was long and went short with them, one floor source said.

Around the lows, however, Goldman, Sachs became a buyer, he continued, and a number of other
players covered their short positions.

This contact put resistance for July silver at $5.26, then $5.30. He put support at the day's low of
$5.055.

Meanwhile, before New York trade opened, analysts at GNI Research commented that if the recent
drawdown in COMEX stocks continues, the market may spike higher. Silver stocks were down
610,221 troy ounces to 88,560,781, according to figures released after Thursday's close. They had
been around 92 million recently.

Stocks are regarded as a key barometer to the health of the market, and should they start to decline
again by around 0.5 million ounces per day, then a rally to $6 could swiftly be seen, GNI said.

Market watchers reported that gold futures began the New York session quietly, even though they
were on softer footing.

Gold was sold off overnight on the back of the Australian dollar and Japanese yen being weaker, one
floor source said.

The Australian dollar has fallen 0.90 U.S. cent to 60.02 U.S. cents. Meanwhile, the U.S. dollar is up
1.03 yen at Y139.53.

Suddenly, the August gold futures extended their losses to a low for the day of $292.30. A couple of
floor sources attributed the decline to the losses in silver, although one noted Chase Manhattan Bank
was a seller.

The market then rebounded along with silver on short covering, floor sources said.
***********************************************************************
Fox-Man

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:27
robnoel__A (tolerennt1...you miss the point....car dealers and OTHER merchants have to report all cash ) ID#411112:
transactions...under the bank secrecy act...in other words all merchants who deposit cash are looked on as drug dealers,the banks will have the power to turn you in .......brown shirt stuff

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:12
pyramid (Ron@16:18) ID#217268:
Perhaps the device would be useless after the time period for which it was designed. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:10
Crystal Ball (FWIW Dept) ID#287367:
Just heard this guy Robert M. Cohen on Bloomberg TV says he likes the gold mining sector

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:07
JP (A few observations regarding today's market action) ID#253153:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1. CRB closed at 214.05 which is a new low this year.
2. Despite the announcements made yesterday by OPEC on supplies reduction , the oil price was down a few cents. If it can't go up it will
decline. I expect oil prices to decline further in the coming weeks.
3. The xau closed just about unchanged. This is a sign of strength.
4. The Dow was up 167 points on short covering and index money. The rally should stall next week. A decline below 8780 will confirm that the top is in.
5. The market breadth today was poor.
6. Interest rates went down a bit on a very strong dollar.
7. The dollar made a new high against the Japanese yen.
8. Money is exiting Japan for higher US interest rates. The Japanese
lost confidence in their government and are beginning to withdraw
money from their savings accounts and deposit it in foreign accounts.
Have a nice weekend


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:07
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: Your Polemic Y2K Optimism expressed in your 14:55) ID#254112:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Dear Sir:
I'm missing your explanation for the simple question:
how do you test an embedded chip to find out if the function which the chip performs works under the condition that the system clock inside the chip is set to Late December 31, 1999 and the goes to 01-JAN-2000.

If you can explain this technically correctly as a basis for a real Y2K test I would be extremely interested in getting in personal contact with you.

What I wrote earlier seems to have touched off quite angry emotions in your psychy. I'm not interested in polemic discussions. I'd like to discuss the proposed problem friendly and publicly with you.

If you can explain the basic one chip only test, then think hard about the added complexity of manipulating simultaneously this set date/time task on multiple chips, computers and systems. I'm sure you will then agree that this multiple date/time manipulation task is an additional and extremely expensive test head ache.

Therefore, the above descibed simple test task #1 is not implicitly the same like the multiple test task.

But if you are only interested in a polemic fight then please don't even answer. I'm not interested in making a personal fight out of this extremely serious issue.

I'm looking forward to your answer.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 17:04
TYoung (LGB) ID#317193:
Had you told us all that gold was going to $269 I never would have gone long on $299 Dec. contracts. $289, I could live with, now you have me scared to death.

For sure I will be stopped out. Should I rush to cover or just leave my stops in place? Help!

BMW... long on silver K's?

Tom

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:53
tolerant1 (robnoel_A, Namaste' This means nothing, nothing at all. I can assure the big) ID#373284:
cheese are not effected by this at all, not one bit, zip, nada, and I can also assure you that drugs will be coming into the US in twenty years and the suits in DC will still be standing on their little soap-boxes.

The fact of the matter remains that if the USG wanted to stop the drug trade in earnest they could shut it down in 18 months...end of story...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:49
HenryD (WetGold ) ID#36156:
Me too... thanks for the beautiful picture of the Neuschwanstein Castle. I made a number of visits there in the early '80s. It was ( is ) absolutely breathtaking.

Ole Crazy Ludwig II wasn't so crazy after all.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:47
muse (LGB-POG) ID#346308:
NASB
two six nine
the goose drank wine
before it's time
stepped on a two by four
fell right through the floor
two four two

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:46
John Disney__A (Evening reflections) ID#24135:
For James ..
The Big Guy always makes time for
a Rangy Investor...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:41
robnoel__A (Just when you thought it was safe to pay cash for gold WHAMO) ID#410198:
http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh0t.htm

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:40
sam__A (Ag Stocks Down Again) ID#286253:
COMEX Silver warehouse stocks down another 600,000 to a little under 88 million. We are now about 1.5 million above all-time lows. Add to the equation three intra-day reversals in a row and this markets looks like it is warming up again.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:34
Poorboys (So much for Gold call options) ID#227168:
See a true disgruntled Gold Bug destroy his computer as gold falls http://www.cnbc.com/moreinfo/0605_bdvideo.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:31
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: Thank you for your beautiful present.) ID#254112:
Have you ever been there ?

This mysterious King of Bavaria lived in his own world.

He didn't need to worry about power supply and telecommunication industries going to their knees because of the most simple and idiotic computer bug possible.
I suppose you associated Goetterdaemmerung when you mentioned the
Wagnerian scenario earlier in one of your posts.

Namaste!

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:30
Ron (Off topic: For all the physics students who hang out here) ID#413195:
Neutrinos may have mass, afterall: http://www.abcnews.com/sections/science/DailyNews/neutrinos980604.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:25
Think Long & Hard On This (The Road to Recovery) ID#359307:
Copyright © 1998 Think Long & Hard On This/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Over the last year or so the Asian Tiger economies have been
devastated. Indonesia has become a basket case. Dr. Mahathir
Mohammed has railed against currency speculators. The Latin-
American economies have come under pressure. Recently
Russia had to raise interest rates to 150%. The Bank of England
surprises the market with a rate rise, leading to squeals of pain
from the manufacturing sector. The euro is in trouble,
as a silence ensues on the level of gold backing, and Germany
stands exposed to risk from Russian economic linkages. The Middle
East is under strain, as their oil price like gold has seen better days.
Wars are breaking out in Kosovo, Eritrea, sabre-rattling in the
subcontinent, and so on.

The IMF is running out of funds and the US congress is not hurrying
to top up their coffers. They don't want taxpayer dollars to prop up
crony capitalism, allowing mismanaged economies to be rescued,
allowing weak companies and banks to carry on, thereby
institutionalising problems.

Does the Phoenix not have to be consumed by the fire,
in order to rise renewed?

The world's strongest economy has seen stock markets inflated to
unprecedented high valuations, and is now struggling to keep
afloat with enhanced volatility, various technical factors turning
bearish, Dow 9000 going this way and that like a groundhog day.
Treasuries and stocks benefit from huge flows of flight to safety
funds from investors whose own countries are going down the plughole,
so where else can they put the funds? The barrel-scraping Japanese
interest rates promote the Yen carry flow of funds into the
strongest market in the world.

Let us think long and hard on this: What does it benefit the world's
leading market to see those countries that were laid low by
currency crashes, economic downturns, bad loans, and recession,
recover any time soon? Perhaps the flight to safety would find
a new place to flee! And at the time of reckoning, some will ask
Did those economies struggle all that time to recover, or were
they handicapped, as it were, by a heavy weight from above?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:18
Ron (Y2K: The Oldest Millenium Bug (so it's not all Bill Gates' fault)) ID#413195:
http://news.bbc.co.uk:80/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_107000/107296.stm

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:18
tolerant1 (Kiwi, namaste - Nah, no gold and none will be bought.) ID#373284:
It will be in dollars and invested and poof...just like that. The Swiss Gnomes in Zurich are very shifty...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:14
LGB (POG) ID#269409:
ASB

Two Six Nine
The Goose drank wine

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:12
Poorboys (Pigs can now fly ) ID#227168:
Miss Piggy wore a Dow yellow polka dot bikini and danced with all big pant boys as little investors again lost their short shorts ---Away to find the Happy Glimmer’s

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:11
kiwi (How much of this will go into physical gold...50-80%?) ID#194311:
Copyright © 1998 kiwi/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Swiss banks offer $1 billion to Holocaust victims


WASHINGTON, June 5 ( AFP ) - Switzerland's three largest banks
have offered more than one billion dollars to Holocaust victims and
their survivors to end their lawsuits for unreturned assets, The New
York Times said Friday.
The World Jewish Congress had no objection to the deal, which
still needs several weeks to complete, sources familiar with the
negotiations told the daily.
There is a lot of haggling remaining, said one source. And
it's always possible that things could fall apart.
The Swiss banks' offer was made last week -- well before New
York authorities on Thursday approved the merger of the New York
branches of two of the Swiss banks, the Union Bank of Switzerland
and Swiss Bank Corporation.
The merger, approved by the New York State Banking Commission
after it determined that the two institutions showed greater
sensitivity to Holocaust-era claims, must now win the backing of the
US Federal Reserve.
The deal was the result of negotiations between Union Bank,
Swiss Bank Corporation and Credit Suisse on one side, and lawyers
for more than 40,000 plaintiffs and Jewish groups on the other.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:10
WetGold (ALBERICH__A) ID#187218:
The young King Ludwig was so enthralled with composer Wagner that he had the most famous artists of the time ( 19th century ) design beautiful paintings within the 'fairy-tale' castle that depict the scene that so inspired Wagner's grandest opus'.

I offer the following JPEG entry to you as a constant reminder to those glorious days by which the idealistic Ludwig wanted to have the German psyche live forever in the Wagner Raum'.

.
Can also use this as 'wallpaper' on your PC window...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:05
tolerant1 (Phew...after looking at those CNBCSTERS TODAY...) ID#373284:
I surely would not want to mop the floors at night...sticky, ug...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 16:00
gunrunner (Retired soldier) ID#354133:
-
I agree with a lot of your posts. All due respect to your service to your nation, but I disagree with your assessment of categorizing all branches of service with the Marine saying Once a Marine, always a Marine. Most of the intelligent former service members that I deal with ( retired or not ) let the military phase of their lives stand for what it was - a passing phase. Get over it. Get a life. Time to move on. Reminiscing is great but don't dwell on it. BTW - I spent the better part of my adult life in the military and was proud to have served but was equally as glad to get out - and I got out primarily for the same reason you did - President Erect Klintoris. I find it amusing that a lot of retirees are ready to go screaming to all three branches of the U.S. government whenever they feel their guaranteed benefits are being threatened - the COLAs ( even though there is little-to-no inflation ) , free medical care, free space-A travel, etc., etc., etc. These folks need to cut the cord.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:28
Poorboys (The Silver Fix is in the Bag) ID#227168:
Copyright © 1998 Poorboys/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For the first time since its establishment in the 1890s, the London silver fix has undergone significant procedural changes.

The changes, which took effect June 1, stipulate that all orders are to be conducted by telephone and that customers will be allowed to change their order up until the price is agreed upon by the fixing members.

The fix members are: ScotiaMocatta, the bullion and base metals unit of the Bank of Nova Scotia; German-based Deutsche Bank; and HSBC Midland.

ScotiaMocatta sets the fixing price at a level where there is equality between the quantity offered for sale and the quantity required for purchase.

At present, members of the London silver fix also agree to a price for three, six and 12 months forward silver. However, the procedural change will make it impractical to publish London silver fix forward prices; spot prices in U.S.

dollars and British pounds will be the only prices published.

Customers may now negotiate forward transactions with their broker using the London silver fix as a benchmark, in a manner similar to that followed by London gold dealers.

This change will improve the transparency and the efficiency of the London silver fix and reinforces London's role as the premier bullion market in the world, says Timothy Jones, who heads up ScotiaMocatta's bullion operations.

In addition, the change will bring the procedures in line with those of the gold fix, which also allows for order changes up until the time the price is fixed.

The London silver fix serves as a benchmark mechanism for price-setting, and is the world's principal reference price for spot silver.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:24
Argent (Allen (USA)) ID#255217:
-
I concur. I grew up with someone who was a perinnial polyanna. He always maintained that Things would ultimately turn out right in the end and all that kind of stuff. I used to argue with him endlessly on related issues. This guy died in his late fifties, broke and dependent on drugs and alcohol. His wife had divorced him. He had lost his job ( a really good one ) . The diagnosis I believe was death due to kidney and liver failure. True story.

I wonder if the Jews who were beseiged by the Romans in A.D. 70 at Jerusalem thought everything would turn out right? It didn't, by the way. Jerusalem was destroyed. Total wipeout.

I wonder if Custer at The Little Bighorn thought everything would turn out right? We know how that turned out.

Someone famous said that Chance favors the prepared mind. The key word is PREPARATION.

In the USA the Great Depression turned out right. Sure. After 10 years and great suffering. And it took WWII to pull us out.

Interesting sidenote. My friend who died prematurely thought gold was a relic of the past and had no place in modern economics. He thought my fascination with it was a waste of time and money.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:23
tman (@James Re: God) ID#373346:
James, even the small insignificant things are noticed by God. In your frame of mind how significant to you are those people that are barely existing?

Yes, the big things are noticed by God too. Even Einstein struggled with the existence of God by using his cosmological constant to deny a beginning point of the universe. I'm sure he regrets it now.

If you believe in God are you a nut?

Regards

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:19
WetGold (James,,, If I did it wasn't a concern.) ID#187218:
From my understanding, the S.A. mining concerns have greater costs incurred in their mining techniques ( relative to N. America ) and therefore quite alarming when the POG is -300.... I am not an expert here ... but ... look to the Kitco Analysts and the new 'vronsky' post today for inspiration that I've made the right decision...

I'm on the fence to load-up on some more ... probably will next week ...
.
.
On Long-Term Thinking: Our favorite holding period is forever
( Source: Thoughts of Chairman Buffett... )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:09
WetGold (tolerant1:,,, perhaps if you had left your seat to greet her the compliment would) ID#187218:
have been returned... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
.
.not hUmmmmmmmmmmm

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:09
James (Wetgold & Lenaxe re: RANGY) ID#252150:
Have you guys looked at the amount of debt that they need to service? I took a 20% loss because I don't think they can survive with POG sub 300
for very long.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:09
MM (Very bad juxtaposition on those posts...) ID#350179:
Something about a nasty mast? Had to look it up.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:07
tolerant1 (WetGold, Namaste' The class must have been discussing Camdesuss and the) ID#373284:
IMF, thieves, rogues and liars...the tapping under my desk made my neighbor run over and ask me if there was a Woodpecker in the house.

I responded, Sort of... Needless to say I did not leave my seat to greet her...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:05
MM (Ah ha...) ID#350179:
Tol1: 'I bow to the divine in you.' as well!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:03
James (Zeke@How could you be so selfish to take up God's time for such an insignificant matter?) ID#252150:
Do you really think that God should intervene so that you can break even on the 1/2 of your RANGY that you did'nt sell? Where do you think that your prayers rate in comparison to the millions of people who are barely surviving at the subsistence level? It is fanatics/nuts like you who make me glad to be an atheist.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:02
WetGold (sorry,,, the classmate NAMED him Woody..) ID#187218:
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 15:00
WetGold (tolerant1,,,,, Pinocchio had a classmate named Woody...) ID#187218:
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:55
tolerant1 (Prometheus, Namaste' Please excuse the next expression but I can't help it.) ID#373284:
That article on the IMF gave me a WOODY!!! GET CAMDESUSS!!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:55
WetGold (ALBERICH__A@13:20) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I do not know how to say it gracefully BUT I must say that you are not understanding what has been done and what is taking place in telephony and/or satellite communications. I make this statement based on the rather cavalier outlook you've described. Let me explain.

You posted: ... Conclusion: The entire telecommunication industry will enter the Y2K event untested...
.
RESPONSE: Do you attend -as I do ( ne ) - any ISDN, Operations Administration & Maintenance ( OA&M ) , CPE, Action Registers, Design Review, or other interfacing and infrasture Forums ? I do. This list includes Bellcore, Lucent, AT&T, Nortel, Siemens, FCC, IEEE, ITU, ......
.
.
You continue, ... Therefore the chances that it will work are close to zero... I can only talk that way publicly behind the mask of a dwarf. I would be fired immediately if I would publish the whereabouts... But I'm sure what I'm writing is true for the entire telecommunication industry...
.
RESPONSE: You are using a commonly know technique, in that, the author attempts to gain sympathy with the readership by portraying him/herself as a victim if the 'truth' were to leak-out.
.
.
You've asked of testing.
... When you have a whole series of computers and chips which have all an internal clock, and they are switched in a row, how do you test if the entire application is Y2K compliant? ... You must test it by simulating in all computers and chips the date event of 31-DEC-1999/23:59:01 working its way to 01-JAN-2000/00:01:01... Only then will you know if the signal which touches at the beginning of the scenario will come out at the end the way it should... The first problem in building such a test scenario is you must manipulate the date/time clock simultaneously in all the envolved computers and chips... I don't know anybody who could do that. I have the impression that the engineers are giving up on it...
.
RESPONSE: I'm unclear as to your point. Testing for 'layer1' ( not the OSI Protocol Model ) ; which describes the highest level interface between the commercial satellite and the next level of hand-off. ( military satellites are somewhat different ) , multiplexed available channels on other testing satellites to provide 'real-world' conditions for testing the interfacing mechanisms. As stated earlier, any probable conditions leading toward degradation were fixed and reported to commercial manufacurers and third party suppliers. On going efforts continue.

BTW: This is a similar testing strategy used when incorporating Signaling Transfer Point ( STP ) links within the switching network throughout the world.
.
.
You define a second problem: ... this test will only show a lab scenario but not the real world devices. Some of these hardware components are 20 years old and nobody knows how they are programmed and what hey really do.
.
RESPONSE: see previous. I don't know of any 'telcos' that have 20 year old satellite links since the old hardware/software does not work with modern-day techniques. They simply will not work.
.
.
Now, your 'third principle':,,,... The third principal problem is: nobody can manipulate the internal clock of a chip for the purpose of such a test. Nobody. O.K.: only a few of these chips run a date sensitive code. But, without test you don't know for sure...
.
RESPONSE: Your 3rd principle is a subset of your earlier posting.
.
.
.
Please - Do not allow the torture brough forth by the Rhein-Maidens in Das Reingold cloud your thoughts... perhaps, you could revisit Der Ring des Nibelungen and seek guidance from 'Die Valkuere' and seek to ride onto Valhalla with a noble purpose...
.
.
OR
.
.
visit Fussen Germany and walk through Schloss Neuschwanstein...
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:53
MM (Tol1) ID#350179:
My impression exactly...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:51
Prometheus (@Thought you'd enjoy this one ) ID#210235:
Kill the IMF

The main losers in a world without the fund would be the businesses that today lobby so heavily for it. The IMF's proclivity to bail out the profligate creates what economists call a moral hazard: Western investors make irresponsible decisions in the belief that they will be protected regardless of the results.

The whole shebang is available at:

http://www.cato.org/dailys/5-14-98.html


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:48
tolerant1 (Old Gold, Namaste') ID#373284:
Just sent your post to the bank...they would not give me anything for it.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:46
tolerant1 (MM, Namaste') ID#373284:
Are you sure that is not the new look for Monopoly money...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:45
OLD GOLD () ID#242325:
JTF: You can take this to the bank. US markets will not be going down for the count as long as gold is cheap and/or headed lower and bond yields are falling. Until POG is considerably above $300 and bond yields are back over 6% and headed higher, a 10% correction is as bad as it gets.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:42
Gollum (goblin) ID#43185:
The Friday afternoon goblin had little effect on gold today. Shorts
and longs kind of at a standstill.

But Silver...Silver is showing power and resolve, is mad as hell and
it's not gonna take it anymore!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:41
Squirrel (EJ - no hurricanes for you, t'was Eldorado) ID#287186:
I get partway into a catching up on my K1 reading and a customer comes in. Then I get a little further and the phone rings. About the time I start a post somebody wants to send a fax and I have to this get this computer off the phone line. Back and forth. Sorry about gettin you confused with Eldorado's post earlier about there not being any food on the grocery shelves to buy even if you had the GOLD to buy it with.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:34
Allen(USA) (Tales of Y2K Woe) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Stop confusing me with reality, my mind is already made up!

Had someone say to me, I don't care what evidence you show me, I can not believe that we are unable to work our way through this problem.. Faith in the innate ability of man. Not based on fact, just a strongly held conviction which wishes to never doubt that we could fail.

Show me the evidence of widespread, successful Y2K projects, tested, certified and garranteed by the signature of the CEO and Board of Directors - their vouchsafe.

If the only thing that can be offered is assertions that things will be OK, then this is blindness. Show the evidence. Demand evidence and commitment to liability. If it is not forth coming then there is no confidence that can be placed in such idle talk.

In a world where people lie to each other daily, break contracts and covenants without so much as a cringe, sabotage and destroy one another and make the grasping and maintenance of power as the true goal of leadership, then why would you trust someone's word? Particularly in view of the fact that tremendous self interest is attached to words which would belie the concerns of the 'customers'.

In six months the world will be a very different place from what it is today. Do not neglect your personal future preparation in favor of your personal present comfort.

Distrust interested advice. - Aesop

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:23
Ron (JTF) ID#413195:
Can't tell 'ya which, but now that I've given everyone a scare, it's only fair that I ease your minds: It was not the IRS nor the SSA. Just a minor regulatory agency. I doubt that they lost more than a day's work or so, since backups are made nightly, so no permanent harm was done -- in this case.

Excellent, excellent suggestion about SS records.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:20
MM (US FRN's getting uglier...) ID#350179:
http://www.moneyfactory.com/currency/20.cfm

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:14
EJ (Squirrel: DId I space out the hurricaine reference? I'm not sure what you mean...) ID#229277:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I assume you are referring to a worst-case Y2K disaster scenario, something I've not been thinking about. I have to admit ignorance of the history of populations that have experienced similar events, such as during war time when there is a shortage of necessities and hardly anyone has any cash or income. I'm guessing that the economy becomes primarily a barter economy and that currency has little value.

As far as the value of your bullets goes, they will probably increase greatly in value on the black market. My guess is that under marshall law you'll be legally allowed to own guns for your own defense in rural areas but guns will not be legal in populated areas.

-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:04
JTF (Love your post) ID#57232:
Ron: Don't tell me -- it was the IRS, and they just lost all my files. Oh well. Now wait a minute -- what if it was my Social Security Records -- those I do care about!

Seriously, about two months ago I got official SS papers on me and spouse, just incase our files got wiped out. Apparently the SS is responsible only for the last 5 years. Anything more and it is your responsibility. So -- better get a copy of your records. Doesn't cost a penny and could save you tens of thousands, assuming of course there is anything left by the time you retire.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:02
tolerant1 (JP-Namaste' ) ID#373284:
I think that your point #-5 as it relates to un-employment is the single biggest number to watch. People are being layed off, it is accelerating and it will get much, much worse.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 14:01
Cyclist (reiteration) ID#26467:
FWIW,Cyclical minor high June 25.Major low July 30.
Projected price still 256 for the end of July.If the POG
bottoms in the 274 price range within this time frame,we have
a bullish scenario.Next major cyclical high would be the second
week of November.
Major market topping out June 9 and going downhill from there.
with the ocasional relief rallies until the end of October.
Happy trading and a good day.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:59
JTF (SP-500 'flight to safety?') ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Looks like a pretty lively market, ignoring less than stellar earnings reports. I remember investing in 1994 or so, and 400% increases in earnings had no positive effect. Now we have just the opposite. It's anyones guess how long this will last -- my guess is that this self-feeding bullish process has some time to go before it burns itself out. But -- the longer this goes on, the more pressure there will be for gold to go up -- there must be more than us gold bugs who are thinking about heading for the exits. Also -- it is hard to push gold down if the markets are going up.

I don't envy AG -- I think I will keep my day job.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:41
Ron (in sack-o-Y2K-fun) ID#413195:
Copyright © 1998 Ron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Was talking to a friend of mine last night who works for one of our beloved federal agencies ( merkan ) , and he told me that while the IT geniuses in the agency's western regional office were testing for Y2K compliance yesterday, someone set the server's clock for 11pm, December 31, 1999.

Well, it seems that the testing team forgot that they had a little backup TSR running, that in addition to automatically backing things up now and then, was setup to automatically delete any data file more than 100 days old.

KABOOM!!!! They lost everything.

I thought that that was an interesting little indicator of how thoroughly potholed is the road to Y2K compliance.

The fun is just beginning, I think.

( Don't ask me which agency. I'm sworn to secrecy. )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:40
SEQUIN ( and S&P 500 is up 30% + from may 1997) ID#25171:


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:39
SEQUIN (@DEJ RE: EARNINGS) ID#25171:
If I might add : S&P 500 earnings are up 1.5% from Q1 1997 to Q1 1998 and S&P 400 ( non financials ) earnings are down 2.4% from Q1 1997 to Q1 1998

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:32
DEJ (Dow and its prior highs.) ID#270236:
Copyright © 1998 DEJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Who really knows? But I don't think it will break its highs. Believe
it or not the U.S. economy is slowing. Look at the weakness in the
manufacturing sector. Growth is slowing because of the soaring
external deficit. This deficit will continue to grow until it chokes
growth completely and we're in a recession. Profit growth slowed
to about 4% in the first quarter and productivity growth is falling
even with 4.8% GDP growth. Imagine what the earnings are going to
be with 2% GDP growth. The market is selling at 25 times earnings and
is the most overvalued market in U.S. history. Technically, the market
looks lousy with horrendous breadth on rallies. I say we're
heading for a crash.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:30
AUH20 (Possible exp for weak gold stocks in NY (again)) ID#200235:
Earlier today there was a news release connecting a japanese govt official with taking bribes concerning the banking crisis. THis led to weak Yen , strong dollar and possibly puts another nail in the coffin for the japanese economy.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:28
golddkm (Australian and Canadian dollars moribund...) ID#377196:
but aw, hey, guys who cares!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:26
AUH20 (Possible explanation for weak gold stocks NYSE) ID#200235:


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:23
John Disney__A (A brilliant exposition) ID#24135:
For JP..
I dont think that was an analysis..
I think that was a short speech ..
But Ill save it .. and see how you
feel about it in a month or so ..
if I can find you.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:20
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: To recognize the problem is one thing...) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
to fix the code and to test is the next step.

What means to test?
When you have a whole series of computers and chips which have all an internal clock, and they are switched in a row, how do you test if the entire application is Y2K compliant?

You must test it by simulating in all computers and chips the date event of 31-DEC-1999/23:59:01 working its way to 01-JAN-2000/00:01:01.

Only then will you know if the signal which touches at the beginning of the scenario will come out at the end the way it should.

The first problem in building such a test scenario is you must manipulate the date/time clock simultaneously in all the envolved computers and chips.

I don't know anybody who could do that. I have the impression that the engineers are giving up on it.

The second problem is: this test will only show a lab scenario but not the real world devices. Some of these hardware components are 20 years old and nobody knows how they are programmed and what hey really do.

The third principal problem is: nobody can manipulate the internal clock of a chip for the purpose of such a test. Nobody.

O.K.: only a few of these chips run a date sensitive code. But, without test you don't know for sure.

Conclusion: The entire telecommunication industry will enter the Y2K event untested.

Therefore the chances that it will work are close to zero.

I can only talk that way publicly behind the mask of a dwarf. I would be fired immediately if I would publish the whereabouts.

But I'm sure what I'm writing is true for the entire telecommunication industry.

And I'm afraid the power supply industry is not in any better shape.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:18
RETIRED SOLDIER (John Disney) ID#347235:
Good to see you in my workday! I know it must be sleep time in SA,
I agree with you I am buying all I can with my adequate retired pay! Hope to be able to rerie completely some day, take a viagra EVERY day and die in the saddle. GO GOLD!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:17
John Disney__A (Comments ) ID#24135:
To all
1. Just for the sake of argument .. I think the
dow is going to break its prior high .. Who Disagrees
2. The RSA stocks seem to be taking a pounding in
New York .. But rangy is up 1/32 .. I dont believe it.
Any ideas why the sell off .. They were off about a
percent here but nothing spectacular

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:14
RETIRED SOLDIER (Tol 1) ID#347235:

Darn, hit return too quick, TKS Shalom to you

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:13
RETIRED SOLDIER (Tol 1) ID#347235:


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:12
JP (The price of GOLD--John Disney) ID#253153:
Copyright © 1998 JP/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Many on this site are concern about the price of gold. Let's analyze it.
1. Deflation is accelerating with interest rates and commodities declining.
2. Corporate profits are shrinking and many companies will be reporting
losses next quarter.
3. I believe equities have begun their bear market and will decline as
time passes.
4. Asia is in chaos with liquidity vanishing and defaults rising.
5. In the US , although the unemployment rate was unchange last
month, the number of people filing for initial claims of unemployment
rose 30,000. That took place during during the memorial day weekend. Actually claims should have been down ( one day less to file ) but they went up. To me, this indicate the beginning of rising
unemploymen t trend.
6. The politicians are not worried yet, but we should see rising tide of unemployment in the weeks to come. Then I expect the fed to lower
interest rates and probably we will see treasury bills at less than 4% by year end of 1998.
7. Gold around $291 today is holding. Usually during deflation gold will begin to rise ONLY after the deflation is widely recognized by the population and people become nervous about their bank deposits.
It may take another month or so for POG to start rising but now
is the time to buy all the senior gold stocks or average down on previous purchases.
8. How reliable is this outlook ?
Very reliable. Better be early than late.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:12
MM (Interesting...Russian Forces AND Y2K) ID#350179:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/politics/story.html?s=z/reuters/980604/politics/stories/millennium_2.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:10
Squirrel (Sorry Eldorado - that was YOUR hurricane experience!) ID#287186:
I try to read and post between customers and easily lose track of what I am doing. Spent several minutes looking for a fax a customer had received here - lo and behold it was on the counter, next to the cash drawer where I would not miss it!! I better get another cup of coffee.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:07
tolerant1 (Retired Soldier, Namaste') ID#373284:
Of course...no question in my mind...none at all...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:06
robnoel__A (WetGold....darn wanted to keep that a secret...now all will know ....) ID#410198:
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:05
tman (@zeke) ID#373346:
Good observation and thoughts. Patience is the key. Hold some cash and take small losses rather than big ones. I'm also dollar cost averaging in gold funds and soon the Lexington Silver Fund.

This is the opportunity that profits are made of. It's just going to take some patience and smarts.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 13:04
golddkm (DJ/Gold ratio...) ID#429270:
stretching the limit at high 8999/291.80= 30.84

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:58
WetGold (ALBERICH__A@12:41) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanx for your response - even though it is Wagnerian or Orwellian in nature.

My familiarity with telco and satellite communications is intense. The 'blanket' covering the 'layer-1' core concerns have been identified and addressed in either past fixes or current/future testing ( the way I design this statement is to infuriate the 'Y2K promoters' ) . It is the peripheral adjunct links owned by the private Corporate concerns that may be affected. I will tell you that recommendations were sent to ALL privately held owners of FCC frequency allocation spectrums as to how their 'CPE' needs to interface with the changes made. It is the responsibility of these companies to incorporate the requirements and information has been sent via legal channels because the potential ramifications are recognized.

Could you provide some insight as to who your employer is because I may be familiar with what's going on. If you choose not to -- I understand -- just want to correlate our perceptions and attempt to find a new reality... thanx ,,,

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:58
RETIRED SOLDIER (Tol1,Squirrel) ID#347235:
I think that sentiment applies to MOST former and retired service members, NOT JUST MARINES, yes? I retired rather ten to continue to serve after the election of Billy jeff

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:57
Poorboys (Piggy Power --Move over Ballard) ID#227168:
----And all the Pigs are dancing –Go Piggy Go

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:51
Avalon (Quote of the day : Making money is the sole goal for investors, not crowing ) ID#254269:
rights . Gene Inger. ( don't think I've posted this one before )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:50
EJ (WetGold: appreciate the ramblings, for they come from the heart) ID#229277:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Congratulations on your good sense and good luck. It takes both, in this life. Some good forture that feels like luck at the time in retrospect turns out to result from good intuitive decisions. At times the gut is right and the head is wrong. You can hurt yourself hanging on the ambiguity. But as OLD GOLD pointed out recently, God doesn't love a coward. You got to place your bet. Your bets on equities and real estate paid off. Everything in its time and place. Now you're betting on precious metals. So have I and most folks here. The long term fundementals are there. Yet with so many other uncertainties we will need luck, too. Good luck to all of us!
-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:49
tolerant1 (Avalon, Namaste') ID#373284:
Si...gulp to ya...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:48
Squirrel (EJ - Your hurricane experience says NO food will be available at any price.) ID#287186:
At least at the beginning I'll sell a can of tuna or beans or a roll of TP or one 30-06 cartridge for $5 cash EACH. Or a case of two dozen {or box of 20 shells} for one 1/4-ounce gold coin.
Later when things get really tight I may raise my price to $20 EACH or a case for a 1-ounce GOLD coin.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:48
Avalon (Most humble tolerant one; did you see my earlier post this a.m. re 60 Minutes) ID#254269:
story Sunday ?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:47
Steve - Perth__A (Steve's News via Australia) ID#284170:
Copyright © 1998 Steve - Perth__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
steve.blizard@eepo.com.au

Australian Bonds Post Worst Loss in 5 Weeks; Rate Cut Ruled Out
http://www.bloomberg.com/aus/news/austop_08.html

Researchers unearth massive chip security problem
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980606/inform/inform1.html

Rate-rise pressure as $A rescue fails
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980606/market/markets1.html

Europe's stability worry much closer to home
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980606/world/world3.html

Mighty minorities
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980606/perspective/perspective3.html


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:46
zeke (tman) ID#307271:
Copyright © 1998 zeke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Agreed. These little wildcat gold mining companies are having it hard enough these days. If you add a leader like Anselmo who runs the company in the survival mode, the shareholders take the deep 6. The big gold maninpulators have us all by the short hairs with the obvious intent of stealing our gold in the ground. If all of us small investors suddenly panic and dump our gold shares, everbody will lose except the big manipulators. Net-net, the mid-cap companies are usually a better bet for us small investors as you said. Most of us here have resolved to weather the storm of lies and manipulation ( deception ) at least through July in the short run and through the millineum in physical gold. It looks like we'll have a quick run-up in silver first, followed by gold. I'm hoping we can do an arabesque: Sell silver then buy gold at a point that maximizes both.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:42
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm) ID#373284:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/repackage/980605.repak.chinese.ship..html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:41
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: I only brought up the security application because we..) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
..considered it such a minor problem that nobody even thought of it!!!
The new gentleman from China put my attention on it.
But isn't it funny to imagine that you tried very hard to fix your business software and then, when the event hits, the doors might not open!

And now: all of this has nothing to do with my much more serious concerns about the embedded chips problem to handle the real telecom traffic:
-control systems with different computers
- embedded chips all over the place from the point when the signal hits the earth station antenna, to the decoder, to the unscrabler, to the echo control chip, to the....to the...there are many many chips and computers which the signal has to pass through until a bit stream is rebuilt which is passed on to the final device which makes out of it either a human voice or a telepicture ( video ) or just correct data to write a transaction for a bank.

I know the scurity system is easy to fix, the business software is relatively easy to fix and to test,
but
it is completely impossible to test the real telecommunication traffic. That's what I am talking about. And that's why I see the shift from the technical fix to the legal *ss-covering activities. They know they won't make it on the engineering route, so at least they try to legally covering their a**es.

If this is not understood I can only state that I am unable to communicate what the problem really is. Which has it's own kind of intrinsic surrealistic value.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:36
John Disney__A (Syama) ID#24135:
for tsclaw
Im pretty sure that Syama is operating
but undergoing modifications at the
same time. I dont think we will
know anything much until the end of
the June quarter. Im not worried
about Syama .. Im worried about the
POG.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:35
WetGold (The Patriot News Hour with Robby Noel ,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
You've exposed yourself...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:34
FOX-MAN__A (Eldorado; Yeah, I may not get back in on Gold Quite yet. I do agree with) ID#288186:
you on Silver. It's getting interesting. I'm still in with a
Dec Silver @ 5.15 I may try to play the APH strategy with a
July Silver position like what APH was talking about. What do
you think? Fox-Man

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:33
robnoel__A (Here is many links to Y2K not looney stuff,lot of Gov.info) ID#410198:
http://www.gold.globalcenter.net/y2klinks.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:31
tolerant1 (Bay of Pigs...nah...Bay of Erections...yeah, that's the ticket...) ID#373284:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/keyes/980605.comak.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:22
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmmmmmmm) ID#373284:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-06/05/066r-060598-idx.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:19
WetGold (Gollum@12:15) ID#187218:
I do recognize the tongue firmly planted in the cheek ...... BUT ... how else to test the 'Tuskeegee experiment' of high-tech-espionage than to get it trialed ON the people...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:19
tolerant1 (Gollum - it did go off the screen a couple of weeks ago. Air Erect One has now) ID#373284:
gone off the radar screen twice over NJ...I think they are telling him something eh...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:16
Aragorn III (For a nice effect) ID#212323:
Click on Bart's Mountie ad ( if/when it appears on this page ) . Then right-click on the image of the overlapping mountie coins and select Set as Wallpaper. Cool...

Does anyone have other suggestions for gold wallpaper images? Also, what is the proper way to save our wallpaper for future re-use?

got gold ( wallpaper ) ?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:16
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Fox-Man -- I will say however that gold seems to have an affinity to the .30 and .70 decimals.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:15
Gollum (@WetGold ) ID#43185:
I remember hearing something about it going off screen a
few weeks ago. Maybe BC is testing a new cloaking device.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:15
2BR02B? (@EB) ID#266105:

Don't know about Soros buying physical but his group
has taken a 20% stake in a s. American silver play, Apex
Silver ( SIL ) .

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980326/ny_soros_s_1.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:11
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Fox-Man -- Bummer. I don't think it should have gone below there unless it means it. We'll see.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:08
tolerant1 (squirrel - 11:18) ID#373284:
You got that right...many friends there...many...they will NEVER go against their oath...never...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:08
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
You all watch carefully how silver behaves around the current numbers. Could be very important!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:02
FOX-MAN__A (Current prices. Aug Gold @ 293.80 July silver @ 5.240 S&P500 @ 1109) ID#288186:
I got bumped out of my Aug Gold position @ 292.50 ( bummer )
Fox-Man

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 12:00
WetGold (pssssss.... Y2K promoters ..........) ID#187218:
AirForce1 went off the screen of air-traffic controllers today for 20 seconds.... develop a theory .... the 'El-Nino' crowd don't want to touch it ....
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:59
Poorboys (Jumping Catfish) ID#227168:
Little Boy George –Me thinks the song Karma Chameleon is better than those old Silver Horseshoes --Away to short all comedies -Donttellanybodyyes

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:57
tman (GOLDF/Zeke) ID#373346:
Copyright © 1998 tman/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I admit I owned this stock for about 6 months and saw it double then go down again to my buy price. I then sold about at an average of .25 ( pre-split ) .

They made lots of promises about Ryan Lode and how costs would be under $200 per ounce, and how there could me a multi-million ounce deposit ( just waiting for them to drill ) . Well, they dropped Ryan Lode purchase option, did a reverse split, JV'd 90% or so of their properties, have little or no cash, full of promises, and so on.

It definately changed my way of looking at gold companies. Buy low cost PRODUCING, non-hyping management, track record, medium to large gold producers. At least until the bull in gold returns.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:57
IDT (APH) ID#375252:
What time frame are you looking at for gold to hit 300?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:51
Gollum (@Reify ) ID#43185:
Nothing here yet. I suspect they're stuck in a server queue somewhere
and will get here eventually. I'll keep you informed.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:40
Pu'ukani (When you raise interest rates...) ID#22584:
Copyright © 1998 Pu'ukani/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
http://www.the-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?1734745

registration required

City questions Bank's credibility

BY ALASDAIR MURRAY
AND CHRISTINE BUCKLEY
CITY and industry united to condemn yesterday's base
rate increase, warning that the totally unexpected move
had damaged the Bank of England's credibility.

Economists said that the decision implied that the Bank
was setting monetary policy purely on short-term data
movements.

In a statement, the Bank sought to justify the quarter-point
increase to 7.5 per cent because of its worries over a rise
in average earnings and the recent slide in the value of the
pound. Average earnings growth accelerated from 4.5 per
cent to 4.9 per cent in February while the pound has
slipped from a high of DM3.10 to about DM2.90.

Analysts questioned how the Bank could act on just one
set of earnings figures which many dismissed as a
one-off. The Bank's own quarterly Inflation Report,
published less than a month ago, showed that it was on
course to hit its inflation target.

Simon Briscoe, director of research at Nikko Europe,
said: If three months' work by the country's largest group
of economists can be overturned by one statistic ... the
whole process must be called into question.

The interest rate rise was the first since November last
year. Analysts speculated that the hawks had won the day
because new arrival John Vickers, who recently became
the Bank's executive director of monetary policy, had
voted for a rate rise, while Charles Goodhart switched his
vote in favour of an increase. Economists now believe that
rates will not begin to fall from 7.5 per cent until next year.

Richard Jeffreys, UK economist at Charterhouse and one
of the few economists to have tipped rates to rise this
month, said that he still expected rates to peak at 8 per
cent later this year.

The pound initially surged two pfennigs to above DM2.92
before profit-taking sent sterling down to close at
DM2.8977. Analysts now expect the pound to hold firm
at somewhere between DM2.90 and DM2.95.

The FTSE 100 fell 37.6 points to close at 5,860.8, while
gilts also lost ground.

Industry and union leaders gave warning that the rate rise
would lead to job losses and business failures.

The Confederation of British Industry said that it was very
concerned. Kate Barker, chief economic adviser, said it
meant a further blow for exporters who were grappling
with serious competitive problems.

Ken Jackson, general secretary of the AEEU electrical
engineers' union, said: This will further cripple British
industry. Two hundred thousand manufacturing jobs have
been put on the line by the Bank of England's vendetta
against manufacturing.

John Monks, General Secretary of the TUC, said: This
increases the risk of a hard landing and will hit investment
and jobs.

John Edmunds, general manager of the UK division of the
US-owned Ingersoll Dresser Pumps, said: Manufacturing
is concerned about this. We just wonder if the
Government really understands what is happening.

British Steel, which is cutting thousands of jobs, called for
the Bank to signal that rates had now peaked in order to
stem further increases in sterling. A spokesman said:
Sterling will continue to be strong while the Bank does
nothing to indicate that the next movement could be
downwards, however far off that may be.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:39
WetGold (ALBERICH@11:15) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am aware of the problem you have described ...

Let me make some assumptions: ( pls correct me if wrong )
.
.
You work for a telecommunications company that purchased 'Secure Entry' hardware/software that ONLY allows access to qualified employees and contractors. The '?central computer?' maintains a database with valid entries and the control mechanism allows entry using the door locks.

Your premise is that there is a potential problem with this condition re: non-compliant Y2K embedded chips.
.
.
If the above is correct, let me follow:
.
.
I had worked with a large telco concern several years ago. My recommendation was to implement electronically controlled locks that can be monitored and alarm from a network of distributely accessible computers. Each leg of the network updates the others as a fail-safe condition ( as do ATMs ) . In addition to this, each strategically sensitive location have local key-pad entry devices with 'swipe'cards. Lastly, the sites must have ( as a default ) key-entry ability to avoid your scenario.

The term 'telco' describes a large array of companies. The traditional 'telcos' since divestiture are the 7 Regional RBOCs and long-distance carriers.

I'm not sure where you are BUT it sounds like a management or buildings contracting problem in understanding what's goin' on.

Additional feedback re: this topic is welcome.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:36
chas (Pu'ukani re HOPI) ID#342315:
Copyright © 1998 chas/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In the early '80's I talked with Bob Ferguson, Bear Clan of the Hopi. I say this will be well worth knowing, the 6/15 Elders chat. My reason for talking with Ferguson was I had heard of an effort by the Bear Clan to peacefully resolve a situation with the Army. They grew and cultivated a corn crop in the desert in 24 hours. Ferguson verified this. There is supposed to be a report in the US Archives to this effect. Can't remeber the general's name, but have been assured it is there, or was there. With all the talent on this forum, maybe the report could be retrieved. From what I have found out , I would bet on it.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:32
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Argent -- To add a small bit to my last post, I will say that what could still be found for purchase could ONLY be done with cash.

Inflation/deflation/explosion/implosion. JTF could probably familiarize you all with the behavior of a nova/super-nova and 'brooms and dustpans'.

Personally, I believe the 'funny money' can ONLY come to an end, along with all the debt writeoffs, and gold/silver MUST/WILL again be THE new debt-free currency. Can't happen any other way! What happens between now and then WILL be, as Cherokee puts it, 'CHAOS', and I will add to that 'JACK-BOOT'!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:27
JTF (Are we follow England's lead?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
blooper: If the Fed raises rates -- it is to do one thing only -- try to pop the equity bubble. Nothing else makes sense, as the last thing the world needs right now is a stronger US dollar. Funny, isn't it? If you raise rates with the right timing, you could pop the market bubble, and the US dollar would go down, not up. The only problem with this is that BC would have to give his ok, because if the market tanks, it will not be good at all for the Democratic y2k elections. It is very remotely possible that BC might agree if AG was sufficiently convincing regarding the avoidance of a worse bubble later. I don't understand why AG doesn't just let the markets tank all on their on, however. If AG raises rates, and the market tanks, his role in history will be assured -- as the one that popped the biggest US market bubble ever.

Come to think of it -- I am amazed to note that no one yet on Kitco has realized that a y2k crash would be a Democratic fiasco. Also, there is no way that BC will be the only one to enforce the 'war powers acts' if need be. It will be a Republican much of the time if this does happen.

Incidentally, do the war powers acts suspend public elections?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:24
LGB (Touch me in the moooorrrrning....(today's off topic one, uh huh)) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Therapeutic Touch Fails a Rare
Scientific Test

A simple experiment assesses whether a practitioner can really detect
'human energy fields'

March 24, 1998, Amherst, NY




In an effort to keep skeptics up-to-date on the explosion of extraordinary health claims, CSICOP alerts you to the following press
release from the Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine ( SRAM ) , the only peer-reviewed medical journal focused exclusively on
alternative medicine. The journal is edited by CSICOP fellow Wallace Sampson, clinical professor of medicine at Stanford University.
SRAM is published by Prometheus Books at 1-800-421-0351.


Therapeutic Touch ( TT ) is an alternative medicine technique said to be used by over 40,000 nurses in North
America alone. Despite its widespread use, practitioners of TT have been reluctant to submit their therapy to
scientific testing. But now researchers have conducted a rare scientific study of the key claim made by
practitioners--the claim that they can detect a human energy field unknown to science and to heal people
by balancing the field. The results of this test will be reported in the new Spring 1998 issue of The
Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine, available April 24. ( Advance copies of the study are available upon
request. Call 800-421-0351. )

A recent review of the literature shows that there is no convincing evidence that the alleged healings by TT
are anything more than the placebo effect, says Wallace Sampson, MD, Editor of the Scientific Review.
Most writings on TT are speculation and commentary, which simply do not address the core question: Can
TT practitioners detect alleged 'energy fields' or not? This simple experiment, though limited in scope, is a
direct, scientifically valid test of this question.

As detailed in the report, before the experiment, a TT practitioner agreed to the study protocol and asserted
that she could distinguish between the energy field of an injured or painful limb and that of a normal limb.
During the test, she attempted to distinguish the energy fields surrounding the arms of two different people,
one with a painful wrist and one with no symptoms. When the practitioner knew the identity of the two
participants ( through the use of normal senses ) , she was able to correctly distinguish the two people. But when
the identity of the two participants was hidden from her, she failed to correctly distinguish between the two,
scoring no better than that predicted by chance.

Even though the results of this single test were negative, it does not rule out the
possibility that TT energy fields exist or that other TT practitioners can detect
them, say Robert Glickman, RN, and Ed J. Gracely, PhD, authors of the new
report. However, the existence of 'human energy fields' and the ability to detect
them remains extraordinarily doubtful.

TT proponents have spent 20 years focusing on which ailments TT can be used
for, without first determining if anyone could actually detect a human energy field.
Practitioners have made a poor showing in the few times they have allowed
themselves to be tested, and the large majority has been silent.

Despite this lack of evidence, TT is now supported by major nursing organizations
such as the National League of Nurses and the American Nurses Association.
Energy-field disturbance is now listed as a nursing diagnosis by the North
American Nursing Diagnostic Association.

THE SCIENTIFIC REVIEW OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE is the only peer-reviewed medical journal in
the world devoted exclusively to the scientific evaluation of alternative medical claims. The review publishes
original research, critiques published studies, reviews available evidence for claims, and discusses the methods
and principles of valid research. Topics covered in the Spring 1998 issue include acupuncture, oxygenation
therapy, naturopathy, magnet therapy, St. John's Wort, the ethics of alternative medicine, and an experience
with a Tijuana cancer doctor. The journal is published by Prometheus Books and sponsored by the Council for
Scientific Medicine.

Contact:

Wallace Sampson ( 650 ) 948-1683
Lewis Vaughn ( 716 ) 636-7571

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:22
EB (*George Soros*....and.....*Warren Buffett*) ID#187109:
-
There has been an abudance of speculation regarding Buffett and his 130mil oz silver horde.....but............however.......there has been NO talk of his buddy *Jórge* buying silver too. Could I get some comments from others regarding this......this VERY important subject. I have heard that he ( georgie ) is a big purchaser at these levels too. ( ) ( ! )

Anyone ( ? )

away...to wait for the big blast-off......... ( drumming his fingers ) ...... ( dum-dee-dum ) ......

Éßuyingmoresilver

blooper - ya sound a little crazy......are ya just a bit out there........aside from being a crazy gold-bug-dude..........fess up.......jest a leeeeetle ( ? ) crazy.....

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:22
WetGold (Argent@10:54) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You make a good point re: having cash on hand... always good advice...

Your hospital scenario tells me something a bit about your perception of how a hospital works. I hope that your experience does not galvanize your thoughts on Y2K, rather, how a hospital is run.

Hospitals are the tools of large corporate concerns by which to funnel money in the guise of helping people. They legally maximize their investment returns through acquiring insurance and Government subsidy money. Hospitals are a business operating under the 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' loopholes while getting a waiver on property taxes. The Board-of-Ds can allocate pay raises under this umbrella without scrutiny from shareholders - only to other members and IRS regulators if need be. The days of home visiting doctors are gone.... We have giving control over to the buracracy which was the objective of the AMA and other interested parties.... there's no concern over modernizing if the bean-counters cannot realize a profit or achieve an accelerating depreciation of capital equipment as is the case with Biomedical equipment. PCs and administrative equipment does not have the same schedule in the loop-hole. If it did it would bring the non-medical Corporate world in parity with them and they see that as too competitive...

I've learned many of these 'tid-bits' while researching hospital infrastructure and associated global communications to design and implement a 'Biomedical Transceiver' device that allows the 'Professional Medical' comunity to acquire biomedical signals without disturbing patients.... I have some real war stories but maybe another time ...

If the Y2K 'thingy' plays out as many have described here and elsewhere - then I hope that the administrative 'arses' that have corrupted the health care through out the industrial world are out of a job for a long-long time while letting the doctors return to the business of health-care...

As always,,,, follow-the-money-trail.... not Y2K ....

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:21
Pu'ukani (Hopi Prophecies) ID#22584:
Copyright © 1998 Pu'ukani/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Chas and others,

FWIW, it seems that the Hopi Nation, a relatively small community of Native americans in Northern Arizona, have decided that their tribal prophecies are very close to manifesting. They have held these sacred and secret for several thousand years. Some of these prophecies have been leaking out over the last twenty years or so. As you might expect, they are not lightweight.

Anyway, they are going to go public with them. For the Hopis, this is actually a pretty big deal as they tend to be rather secretive about their spirituality. On Monday June 15th at 8 pm PDT, two of the Hopi Elders will be discussing their prophecies on the Art Bell show. You can check your local staion for listings or you can listen through the Internet. Go to http://www.artbell.com/ and click on Live Audio. You will need Real Audio to listen but that is a free download.




Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:19
themissinglink (Macroeconomics:How to reconcile falling profits, record low unemployment, high productivity, and ) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 themissinglink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
strong demand.

The answer is overproduction stimulated by easy fiscal policy. The first economies to collapse are those which rely the heaviest on export and conversely the least on domestic demand for their GNP.

Overproduction is a nasty spiral where the only way, short of collusion and production cuts, to save profits in an environment where margins are falling is to increase production, thereby exacerbating the overproduction problem. Of course it is no ones interest to act unilaterally.

The past eighteen years began with fiscal overstimulation during Reagan through 1995 when we cut the deficit and let M3 money supply begin to spiral. Somehow the extra money created, out of thin air, ended up as investment capital instead of consumer spending. By the narrow definition of inflation as it relates only to consumer spending, we have seen low inflation.. The promises of greater rewards have kept the money working to generate further wealth.

This lead us back to high capital investment, high productivity growth, low unemployment, and high levels of output. Since inflation ( spending of these excess dollars ) has not been allowed and population increases are not signifigant, demand has not kept pace with output. Falling prices, higher output to recapture profits, high employment to produce this output, massive business contraction in export based economies as corporate financing slowly creeps towards bad debt ( marginal costs greater than marginal revenue ) . Witness Asia, South America and now Russia.

The banking crisis is brought on by the innability of businesses to realize enough revenue on each incremental rise in production to cover greater financing required. This leaves them the choice of contracting and losing market share or going forward and risk the health of the banking industry which is forced to throw good money after bad until it all becomes bad.

steve@familyjeweler.com

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:18
Squirrel (RJ - yes I know that - Thanks for letting the rest know too!) ID#287186:
Several friends of mine are semi-active Marines on volunteer reserve duty you might say. Some still maintain contacts with the other guys on or off active duty in the Corps. Whispers travel far and wide. We really have nothing to fear from these guys. Their loyalty to this nation transcends politics.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:15
ALBERICH__A (@WetGold: It's the Embedded Chips problem...) ID#212197:
..which makes the telecommunication industry so extremely vulnerable.
You can't test it.
Do you know a way how to test real production environments where embedded chips play an unkown role in an unkown number of big and littel corners?

For further details please contact me at
orbitel@ipo.net

Thanks.

Alberich

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:15
blooper (LOW inflation (intrest rates), ) ID#207145:
cause bubbles, surely you can't think rates are going lower over time ( more stimlation, more bubble ) .

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:10
LGB (Inflation...) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Inflation, deflation, inflation, deflation...
Let's call the whole thing off!

Friday June 5, 10:54 am Eastern Time

ECRI future U.S. inflation gauge 109.9 in May

NEW YORK, June 5 ( Reuters ) - The Economic Cycle Research Institute ( ECRI ) monthly U.S. future inflation gauge ( FIG ) fell to
109.9 in May, from an upwardly revised 110.6 in April, ECRI said Friday.

Slower growth in real estate loans and civilian employment led to the decrease, along with a drop in the percentage of purchasing
managers reporting slower deliveries, the report said.

ECRI said inflationary pressures in the U.S. economy had been rising slowly since January, when the FIG reached a low.

``The latest month's reading shows that the rise in overall inflationary pressures has been checked, at least for now,'' ECRI said.

The gauge is designed to anticipate cyclical turning points in the rate of inflation, ECRI said.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:07
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Argent -- Even better than having so much 'cash' laying about would be to have that much in REAL supplies put away. Don't even count on a store being open or anything being on the shelves if/when you got there! I KNOW from past hurricane type experience that NOTHING out there can be counted on! In the worst of days, one won't even be able to count on their 'precious' to buy food as NONE will be available.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:04
blooper (Arch Crawford Expects Fed to raise,) ID#207145:
or is this July 23 top just real darn conspicuous.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:02
chas (Polarbear re Jap Translations.) ID#342315:
Is there any chance you could check on English translations of Jap reports on earthquakes. There's a ton of work done here recently, last 5 years, but can't find translations over here. USGS is out of it. Many thanx, Charlie

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:02
blooper (Any rise in oil,) ID#207145:

Likely will nail coffin on transports, hurt bonds and utes. Go, however, I say go gold from there on out to Jan.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 11:02
SEQUIN (Y2k) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since I am not an expert maybe somebody knows something about the following problem which I don't fully understand.
Some computer guy in my bank told me that a lot of expensive softwares were being sold to test the compliance of hardwares and softwares.
But against which reference are systems tested ? Are these testing softwares thorough? He is not sure and smells a rat. ( or a super rat if you like Breakfast at Tiffany )
The guy told me that updated versions are being issued every 2 weeks .
My bank has 40000 employees and they haven't bot one of those yet, neither started testing.The New-York branch will be ready enough to avoid being shut by the FED but he told me that it would be ARMAGEDDON in our European headquarter.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:59
Reify (E-Mail-Gollum) ID#413109:
Have replied to both of yours, and wonder if received?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:59
Reify (E-Mail-Gollum) ID#413109:
Have replied to both of yours, and wonder if received?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:58
blooper (Gold and Oil are so cheap) ID#207145:
The Grahams and Buffets of the world have bought oil lately and are eye balling gold for Aug 25th seasonal buy point.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:57
Gollum (in the treches) ID#43185:
Pretty good tussle, this one. Shorts on one side longs on
the other. Hand to hand, nose to nose. No quarter given and
none recieved. The shorts may be getting the worst of it.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:54
blooper (Asia, el nino.,) ID#207145:
both conspired to kill oil, gold. El nino is leaving. Joe Sixpack, with stuffed pockets is off to Disney World ( walley world ) . Joe will burn the roads up this summer. Cold winter possible. Asia buys oil first. It is necessary whether they can afford all they'd like or not.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:54
Argent (Scary realization) ID#255217:
-
Yesterday I was at a large Va hospital for a checkup and I began to take note of the HUGE number of computer terminals everywhere. It then began to become clear to me how dependent we have become on computers and how very VULNERABLE we are as a result of that dependency. If those computers in that hospital went down or became unreliable, practically EVERYTHING would STOP! No scheduling, no appointments, no test results, on and on. Hospital personnel would be helpless

Later, in a small supermarket, I was standing in the checkout line with a couple of items when the POWER went off. Of course the cash register went off with the power and everyone just stood around, looking at each other. No checkouts, no purchases, nothing. People just stood there, waiting. I waited about two minutes, then replaced my items and left. As I drove off I could see the people inside, still standing there, waiting. No one knew WHY the power went off. It just DID.

For the second time that day, my mind became ever more focused on the possible implications of Y2K. It could amount to almost TOTAL disruption of our society as we now know it. As time went by after the initial shock, there would be some adjustment to the situation, sure; but our lives would be changed in so many ways that we cannot now imagine.

One thing I might add that perhaps needs emphasizing is the absolute necessity of having CASH on hand for an extended emergency situation. And have it in SMALL denominations, like $5's and $10's. In addition have available hard coin ( cupro-nickel ) for very small change. I would suggest a few hundred dollars worth. As for currency, several hundred dollars worth would be minimum and a few thousand would be much better.

The scary realization is that we have become virtual slaves to modern technology and we had better be prepared for what surely must come, probably sooner, than later. To borrow from another poster here on Kitco, have YOU got gold?


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:48
blooper (E.J.,) ID#207145:
Preacher posted 2 evenings ago concerning the 'BULLISH NON CONFIRM, in crude. He called for a BIG RISE IN OIL, inthe near future. This will facilitate a rise in gold, which will be modest The crude move could get to 20. This is inflationary. Grains on hot dry august., may do well.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:47
Gollum (Y2K) ID#43185:
Many are going forward with getting ready for Y2K, but even among the
prepared there are going to be some surprises, methinks.

Remember the big blackout on the east coast years ago when the power grid
failed? One New York Hospital had been prepared for power emergencies by
having installed a big diesel electric generator. When it came time to
make use of it, they couldn't start it because it had an A/C electric
fuel pump.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:47
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#213265:
Copyright © 1998 Eldorado/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Once again, the weakness in the metals stock indices was the forwarning in the forthcoming, and now at hand weakness in the pyhsical. And I thought Aug gold would make it just above 296 before it fell off. Shame on me.
No particular 'handwriting' on the wall yet but caution IS due! For platinum, I currently like 350 on the July contract and consider anything lower to be gravy. The slope is still downward so that 350 number is also on that sliding scale, meaning it may become a lower number as time marches on in the short term. Caveat: if toooooo much time passes without the momentum changing, then even 342 area may be broken. Watch the support area ( s ) !

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:45
HighRise (zeke - Kinross & AU) ID#401237:

Evidently they have, I noticed on my account that the stock transfer / switch has been made.

Therefore a done deal for sure.

HighRise

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:45
tsclaw (@POLARBEAR) ID#327123:
Where have you been. Anyway, have you heard anything on the Syama project?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:41
WetGold (ALBERICH__A@10:32) ID#187218:
Why do you choose to point toward the telecommunication industry ?... I had consulted with one the largest telcom companies in the U.S. and we had implemented the electronically controlled locks, 'swipe cards' with 'key-access' for this type of problem. I KNOW this to be true because I had been DIRECTLY involved and seen it work.... keys usually work ...

TIA.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:32
ALBERICH__A (Y2K: Surrealistic HighTech Environments) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We hired a very experienced Chinese computer guy to work out test plans for Y2K testing. In an introduction session I explained to him our most critical applications containing date sensitive decision logic and date arithmetic.

During a break he pulled out his new badge which he received in order to open doors. All doors can only be opened controlled by a sophisticated security system. The badge-id is validated in a central computer system. The expiration date shown on the badge has only two digits and that's how it's stored in the computer. Nobody thought of this yet. No door can be opend without a computer check. From 1-JAN-2000 on the computer will think that the badge-id has expired one hundred years ago. The doors won't open anymore.

In a meeting of the steering committee for the Y2K project the responsible manager form the operational side of the hous declared that since a few weeks the emphasis has shifted from the engineering aspects of the Y2K problem to the legal aspects. Every step, especially the test plans and test results have to be documented and certified.

It seems we are approaching an extremely well documented disaster in the telecommunication industry.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:29
Auric (Gold ) ID#255151:

The Royal Canadian Mint should issue a one ounce Gold coin with a written guarantee to be Y2K ready. Here's to Maple Leafs and fondling QEII's bust!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:27
SEQUIN (DEFLATION AND GOLD) ID#25171:
Copyright © 1998 SEQUIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The latest exemple of a real deflationary era is the crisis in the early 30's.
At that time the concept of money supply management didn't really exist as the three main world powers ( USA, UK , FRANCE ) were still on the GOLD standard ( except for some time in the UK in 1929 1930 and in the US when FDR was elected )
When FDR decided to go off the GOLD standard and allowed GOLD ownership for industrial purpose only ( ! ) , we have to remember that he was a complete illiterate in money matters.
He went off the GOLD standard against the advice of the N.Y. FED chairman and was following the advice of an obscure economist ( CORNEL UNIVERSITY I believe ) who advocated that if the value of GOLD in US $ went up , then the value of agricultural commodities would follow.FDR was trying to avoid farmer's upheavals.
The US started to buy GOLD in the domestic market and then in PARIS and LONDON but WHEAT stayed at 40% of its 1928 value.
He then came back to the GOLD standard on a 35$ per fine OZ parity ( versus 20.0x before )
The monerary authorities were a bunch of amateurs.They didn't have a clue of what was going on and were in complete uncharted waters.
In our times , we can vilify central bankers as much as we want but they know what they ' re doing to a certain extent. Considering that we are in a doomed for failure system, and they know it , their goal is to maintain the system as long as possible.
Thus , their reaction and their power to react in a deflationary environment is tremendous and not comparable to what it was in the early 1930's.The central bankers power to flood the system with liquidity will enable them to avoid a total collapse of the economyduring a much longer period than 65 years ago.It will eventually fail but think that the situation could slowly deteriorate for years instead of collapsing all at once.
The question of importance being what will happen to GOLD in such circumstances?
First , during the deflation of the early 30s GOLD appreciated by about 75%.The credit collapse in the US and Europe in a deflation ( caused by a stock collapse or international economic pressure ) will be at first comparable to the situation in JAPAN these days.
However , the big difference is that JAPAN is net creditor and has a huge saving rate when it is not the case for the US and to a lesser degree for Europe.
The collapse of credit will be tremendous and it is obvious that money will be safer in hard assets than in banks . The arbitrage decision will be, if you have surplus cash and still a job: do you want to hold cash under your matress or hard assets which might depreciate at first as nobody will be able to bid up real estate , farmland or maybe precious metals.
The psychology will eventually shift to defiance. FIAT money will be seen for what it is : TOILET PAPER. You can grow food on farmland , shelter your family in a house and GOLD and SILVER coins are a store of intrinsec value . The shift will take time and at first , even hard assets ( beside GOLD which will be quickly bid up by the super rich who know the story ) will tank in price.Eventually the tide will turn.
BUY CASH GOLD.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:27
POLARBEAR (Bre-X scandal haunts former president even at death) ID#183109:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9806/05/bre-x.obit/

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:22
zeke (tman+GOMFD) ID#307271:
Thanks tman. I since found that you are right: They had to reverse split to maintain the above 1 NASDAQ requirement. Who will want to buy this dog now?

Has Kinross merged with Amax Gold yet? The Amax ( AU ) chart has been inactive lately...must be time to rename it Kinross on the TC2000 charts.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:10
Gollum (zounds!) ID#43185:
Pretty good tussle going on in the PM markets. The 10:00 raid.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:07
Auric (Au and Ag Update) ID#255151:

Getting hit. Gold off $2, Silver down 8¢. JD's son made a good call, eh. Good on ya, Russell!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:04
tman (GOMFD) ID#373376:
Zeke, I think someone is trying to keep this stock above the minimum bid price of $1.00. This stock holds nothing for potential. They're in a JV with Placer Dome for about $5 Million. Other than that, dilution will prevail. Stock, Stock, and more issued Stock.

Take Care

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:03
tsclaw (@ JOHN DISNEY_A) ID#327123:
John have you heard anything about the RANGY Syama project progress. Last we heard was that they were six months ahead of schedule, That is this month!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 10:01
downunder__A (Good nite all-from he that wants for nothing.) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:58
vronsky (GOLD & DEFLATION …if history is indeed prologue…) ID#426220:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

A graphical autopsy ( 5 charts ) of the DOW, Utilities and Gold Mining Stocks from 1924 to 1935. The relative performance of paper stocks vs gold mining stocks during the Great Depression is astounding.

Contrary to many present day market analysts' unfounded beliefs,
there was indeed ONE SECTOR which was spared the grinding
deflation of market values during the Great Crash ( 1929 ) and
aftermath: GOLD MINING STOCKS.

The upshot of the detailed report is THE ONLY PLACE TO BE IN DEFLATION
WAS IN GOLD STOCKS.

Presently, the Asian Contagion demonstrates all the earmarks of
true DEFLATION. …Turmoil in the Far-East will necessarily precipitate a
true global deflationary credit collapse - as the inter-related banking systems cause the next lower rung on the financial ladder to fail.
Subsequently, this will trigger a run to GOLD and gold mining stocks…

Full report at following URL - it will be necessary to delete the extra letters en in the word golden before pasting the URL to your Internet locator:

http://www.golden-eagle.com/editorials_98/vronsky060698.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:57
WetGold (need help understanding Service economy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
.
.
... U.S. job growth was 296,000 in May, reflecting a surge in service-sector employment. The unemployment rate held steady at 4.3%, its lowest level since 1970, and average hourly earnings edged up 0.3%... , source: ( Journal of Commerce )
.
.
,,,, Service-sector V. Manufacturing-sector ..... does anyone know of a study or analysis that has projections relating such a high employment record to each of these sectors ?

I understand the historical successes of the post-WWII manufacturing economy but this Service economy is a different game... Any recommendations for further reading ....

TIA

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:53
zeke (Silverado--GOMFD was GOLDF) ID#307271:
Does anyone know why Silverado ( GOMFD ) is up 30% this morning? This is one Bowow of a stock, but it has shown some strange gyrations of late.

Any news?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:52
Silverbaron (APH) ID#289357:

This INPATHIQUE system I've been following is still forecasting the same time frame as you have noted for a top - in the last week of July, followed by a sharp drop in mining equities ( as measured by the Toronto Precious Metals Index )

long-term chart

http://home.istar.ca/~inpath/gold.gif

short-term chart

http://home.istar.ca/~inpath/gold-cl.gif

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:42
APH (Arch Crawford & Metals) ID#254201:
I just read Arch Crawford's projection of a significant high in metals and oil on July 23, he plans to short that day. Coincident to that my ratio analyis of the silver waves projected a high for the current leg up on 7/23. Look for the 7.00 silver target to be reached around 7/23. I would then expect a correction into Aug. taking silver under 6.00 and the possible final low in gold.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:31
Gollum (@WetGold) ID#43185:
I much appreciate your ramblings. Someone once said that no man is an
island. I rather think that each man is like a leaf fallen into the river
of life. Some land out in the midstream where the river is swift and some
land in the pools and eddys by the shore. No one chooses into which era
or family they are born or the degree of intelligence, wisdom, vigor, or
perseverance with which they shall be endowed. Yet all eventually move
on into the sea.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:19
Avalon (Sixty Minutes China Story on Sunday; just heard on car radio that S.M. will have a ) ID#254269:
story about US shipping sophisticated machine tools to China back in 1992 and that they have been diverted to military use. Pentagon spokesman became suspicious because Chinese wanted tools shipped to a non-existent factory. Steve Kroft is the 60 minutes reporter. Should
be interesting.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:18
Gollum (@Steve in TO) ID#43185:
Fire in the hole!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:16
badger (crystal ball 8:48, There's nothing easy about anything going up in this market. Yesterday I had a ) ID#261118:
Copyright © 1998 badger/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
conversation with Bob Bishop, editor of a well known gold stock news letter to which I'm a subscriber. I've no special relationship with this fellow save my subscription however he has been kind enough on ocassion to speak with me on certain questions. Telling him I had a little cash to spend, I ask of our recomended stocks which ones should I consider; his reply was to cool my heels. Bob said he sees no reason for further exposure to this market in general with the exception of a few special situations and he seemed fairley unimpressed even with those: Krystalex, Coriente Res., Western Copper, and St. Jude.
This man has an excellent track record and a time line to go with it, ( not just a few years ) , I've found his advice quite sound and oweing to his capacity for garnering a great deal of info to which I'll never be prvy ,I listen...

badger

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:15
Gollum (@downunder) ID#43185:
Well added. Definitely quality of life. Definitely.

Quality of life, though, does not necessarily have anything to do with
what we have been calling wealth.

There are two ways to become a rich man. One way is to receive everything
you would desire to be happy. The other way is to be happy with everything you have received.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:12
zeke (Rangy+US Standard of Living) ID#307271:
Copyright © 1998 zeke/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Listening to people ( man ) can be costly indeed. I made that mistake when I purchased Rangy back when it was being so heavily touted by many. The Holy Spirit urged me to sell it back in late April to break even. Like most fleshly men I COMPROMISED and sold half of my holdings--not pleasing to the God I serve. Now I pray daily for the opportunity to break even on the other half.

Our standard of living in the US began its demise in the late sixties as our Christian-founded nation turned its heart from the Living God who formed us. Now, the flip-side of Deuteronomy 28 is operational. Women must work making bricks-without-straw to maintain what we see as a desirable standard of living. Our homes have become bondage for the fathers; our schools have become a snare for our children

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:08
jims (Yes big up for the dollar) ID#252391:
The dollar indes needs to fall below 98.50 to give a good sell signal. Imagine we'll be back uo to about 99.76 with today's action. Seems the currency markets think interest rates in the US will go higher? I doubt it.

Gold at off $2 is at yesterday's lows - we've had strenght into the close recently. I think news on the Euro backing, particularly regarding future central bank sales could surprise people here.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:05
WetGold (EJ@08:03 and my ramblings,,, ramblings,,, ramblings,,, ) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I enjoyed reading this post. While reading - this thought came to mind...

Within the past ten years I have become ( what the majority of U.S. citizens would call ) wealthy based on the average salary of the typical American. This wealth was acquired through leverage in Real Estate and Equities over many years. The increase in equity prices since the 1980's has provided me a windfall that I could not have achieved working 3 jobs. The ability to leverage in equities was derived from Real Estate income - I had paid off my Real Estate from my salaries because I had the insight to see the deflationary trends in this market. The majority of these investments in Real Estate were from the 1970's... some while waterfront property was purchased at $1K an acre ... Similarly, I have sold off most of my 'Blue-Chips' in 1997 and 1998. I had investments in about 60 major corporations.

If I had not utilized R.E. leverage in the 1970's and equities leverage in the 1980's I could not have achieved these results. Simultaneously, I've been purchasing PMs for many-many years AS AN INVESTOR in the future. Yesterday, someone had pointed to my philosophy of buy-n-hold PMs as the difference between an investor ( short-term profit ) and a collector. I do not cosider myself a collector in the traditional sense. If I were to attached this term to my methods I would say that I am a collector of a more secure future - but- that is using someone else's word to fit a model that is stretching it slightly.

I am currently ( over past 2 years ) as aggressive in purchasing mining associated equities and PMs as I had been in Real Estate and 'Blue-Chip' equities of my past. Will I be successful ,,,, only time will tell,,,, I am a long-term 'investor'/'collector' because I am not smart enough to micro-manage the financial world. My understanding of long periods of history and the writings of 'the experts' are my compass toward making an informed decision. It will be 'in-your-time' ( cf: Another ) that our efforts in PMs will reap rewards.

Finally, I'd like to emphasize that this business we are in ( keeping ahead of the curve ) does not lead to a decrease in financial concerns. It is true that when you have more 'things' you spread your concerns over the increase of the 'things' and maintain pressure on yourself to 'not-lose-your-things'. This is not necessarily a bad thing but sometimes we need to recognize that most 'things' don't change. It is the challenge, luck, and know-how that you look back on that is the source of gratification of your endeavors and this history provides the catalyst toward further financial successes.

btw: I ; in no way, 'feel' or 'live a lifestyle' of a wealthy person. In fact, I have never mentioned this term ( wealthy ) to any of my friends, collegues, wife, et al. My accountant is the guy that shows me the statistics and uses the term and over the past few years I am slowly seeing that what he says fits a certain pattern ,,,but,,, it still has not penetrated fully.

Sorry for the long post and if there is a perception that I am boasting. I am not. For some reason the EJ post turned a light-on to post this information. I have nothing to prove to anyone here or establish myself as an expert in anything ,,, I am here to get and share information with my Kitco friends. This forum is unique in that most of the posters have been here for a time while providing consistency allowing each of us to feel as if it were a 'cyber-family'. This is a much hackneyed expression but it is true. I greatly appreciate what I have learned here.

Lastly, This business is a moving target. The target now is PMs and associated mining stocks... I hope that one day we will all meet in a large ballroom and have long discussions about how we've all grown in our lives. ( the ballroom, though, must look and feel as the one emulating a classic room of the roaring 20's ( pre-crash ) as seen in The Shining, when Nicholson goes to get a drink at the bar and only the bartender is there )

p.s.,, I realize the demise of Real Estate ( based on a paper I had written on population ) but I still own R.E. and feel obligated to my tenants since most have been with me for 10+ years ... some are elderly ...

p.s.s,,, If this post seems rambling ( cf: Subject ) it is ... if I were to edit the content and spend time modeling it to impress you and show you how smart I am --- it wouldn't be FUN anymore --- and I am here to have FUN...
.
.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 09:04
Crystal Ball (US dollar) ID#287367:
The dollar is soaring on eagle wings this morning. Not good for precious

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:58
downunder__A (Gollum) ID#27341:
i would add, quality of life.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:57
badger (jims 8:29 is on the mark; a drop of water falls into a still pool, the ripples go back and forth but) ID#261118:
in finality is absorbed, all evens out. My take is however that the time frame is much larger for this to happen; perhaps more than 50-75 years out, mahaps more.

badger

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:56
Steve in TO__A (Gollum - You're right, the Boomers' . . .) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
desperate attempts to start preparing for retirement ( 20 years too late ) have been the cause of the huge US & Canadian stock bubble.

I just don't know what the consequences of this lacksadaisical crowd of whiners losing 2/3 of their retirement savings will be when the great bear market finally happens! They'll probably run to the government like they always do, and demand some sort of restitution and punishment of a bunch of scapegoats for good measure. The Gen-Xer's don't have any money for the gov't to take to bail out the Boomers. Money could be gotten from seniors, who are sitting on large nest eggs, but what politician would want to see his name in the headlines as a granny robber?

I'm sure governments will try to inflate their way out of this one, possibly with Brazil-like consequences. The potential for social upheaval is kind of scary IMHO.

- Steve

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:52
Gollum (maya) ID#43185:
The head on the nail is that one can easily be hypnotized by watching
the numbers into believing that this has gained or that has lost but
the bottom line is standard of living and buying power.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:51
Crystal Ball (@ Lenaxe) ID#287367:
I don't know of any news, but technically, RANGY looks like it could easily go to $0.50 per share

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:48
Crystal Ball (unemployment numbers) ID#287367:
nonfarm payrolls up more than expected. unemployment rate staedy at 4.3%. Bearish news for stocks and bonds, so of course, bonds are unchanged and SPOOs are now UP over 2 points. Go figure.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:46
Gollum (@JTF) ID#43185:
I guess it's nice being the longest pole in the tent is nice if it gives
you more muscle, but it also leaves you as last one standing with the
farthest fall.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:42
Steve in TO__A (BTW JTF et al. - declining living standards . . .) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
One of the most self-defeating trends in our countries has been the trend toward women entering the workforce. You often hear old-timers recount how in the fifties and sixties a man could earn a good living for a family and the woman could stay at home. Then as living standards began to erode, and women decided they wanted to be something a little more impressive than a houswife, women started flooding into the workplace.

Of course, this increase in the supply of workers caused a further drop in real prices commanded by workers ( inflation-adjusted wages ) and the oblivious crowd wonders why two people can't even provide the same standard of living one did forty years ago.

Having said all that- please don't you female Kitcoites think that I'm against you having jobs. I think you should be able to be out there having your day in the sun just like everybody else, but just be aware that you're living in a much more dog-eat-dog world, and you'll have to work smarter, not more, to live like people did back then.

- Steve

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:39
jims (Employment numbers) ID#252391:
ARe the employment numbers out yet?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:38
goldy88 ( TO GOLLUM:negative lease rates) ID#42039:
Yes it should be this...but concretly if one wants to borrow the metal
now interest rates are charged...can t we find somebody who recently has made a simulation?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:35
Gollum (@Steve in TO) ID#43185:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Very well put. Another factor has occurred in recent uears. As the baby
boomers have aged there has been a great fuss put forward about the
trouble the social security system is in. This has been coupled with
inducements to place thier savings into IRA and 401K accounts, followed
by the opportunity to move these funds into equity accounts. All of this
with great tax benefits. The total impact on the equites markets have
been tremendous as the dollars leave the pockets of the boomers and go
into the pockets of the stock sellers.

I wonder if those dollars will be easily redeemed when it comes time to
fall back on the fruits of their labors?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:30
lenaxe (Re: RANGY) ID#263184:
Does anyone have any recent input on RANGY? It seems to have given more ground than the other South African gold mines on the last pull back. Also, although other SA golds had moved up a bit before that, RANGY never broke out of its consolidation pattern. I wonder if there is any news pending holding it down.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:29
jims (Interesting perspective Sholomo) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I find this discussion about falling standards of living to be quite interesting. My standard of living started to stall and fall behind after my divorce. Paying child support in after tax dollars, having sold the house ( America's tax break to wealth ) isn't easy either. I would concur that the increase in divorce had a big impact on the decline in standards of living.

As important as the world opened to international competition , American wages came under attack from foreign competition. I have a belief that for the average Joe and Joesephine their purchasing power will not stop declining until the Chinese counterparts' is equal.

Heh they don't even have as many McDonalds as we have to work in.

Given increased world competition after the oil crisis repriced everything those that got ahead and managed to increase their standard of living were couples with small families with the great American wealth creator and tax break, ie. real estatek, and who had a technical bent to their careers. Technology has had so much productivity growth built into that higher standard of livings were earnable by those in related fields.

The generation Xers who are not in technological fields will have a very hard time as baby boomers hold on to what other good jobs there are until they pass into late retirerments.

Standards of living will fall to the lowest common denominator as the world economies become more open to each other.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:26
hipshot (SS Trust Fund) ID#401349:
PH in LA: The Trust Fund is full of IOUs. They won't work on wallstreet. However, why is slick wanting to save SS with this bogus budget surplus? So he/they can pump the market and get credit for saving SS? This is a politician's dream. Let's see, take capial gains tax money that is creating a budget surplus ( only because so much of the gov't expenditure is off-budget ) and recycle it into the market. Wow, you talk about a perpetural motion money making machine. The Republicans will offer some token resistance, but they're all in it together -- self-serving politicians.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:22
Steve in TO__A (Jims et al. - Euro gold backing . . .) ID#287337:
Peter Munk gave a seminar in TO here a few weeks back. He was invited, along with a few other major gold company CEOs, to meet with the European finance ministers & CB directors. He said they told him that gold sales from the EU would be put on hold now that the Euro is a reality.

He also said that they decided to miss their previously announced deadline ( May ) for announcing the amount of gold backing, and are not even sure they will announce the specific backing level at all, pronouncements about a July 1 announcement notwithstanding.

- Steve

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:21
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43185:
You make a very good point, I don't see folks putting their savings into the suckers' rally this time because... they don't have any savings., and one with which I completely agree.

I think the people in the equitys market haven't got a clue. It's sadly
ironical to note how they welcome the slowdown in earnings and rising
unemployment because it means the Fed won't raise rates. As though the
passengers on a plane welcome the way it has gone into a stall because
it means they can just hang there and take in the scenic view longer.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:17
gagnrad (One more quote for the day.) ID#43460:
The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep. Woody Allen

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^XAU&d=5y

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:11
Steve in TO__A (JTF - living standards) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
JE Davidson has pointed out that the period 1945 - 1965 was a period when there was very little competition for the American, Canadian & European worker. The communist coutries had closed economies and the third-world countries performed no manufacturing that competed with first world workers- they only provided raw materials ( hewers of wood and drawers of water. ) Made in Japan meant cheap & flimsy in those days, and you couldn't buy a Japanes car in NA or Europe if you wanted to.

Effectively, 3/4 of the world's population was shut out from access to the Western markets.

Then Japan changed and surged ahead of the Americans in quality. Then manufacturers discovered they could do the intellectual work in North America and the manufacturing in third-world countries, as in running shoes and electronics parts. When workers were in short supply, prices for them ( wages ) were high. As more of them flooded onto the market, workers found themselves having to sell their services for lower relative prices. As former communist countries have opened their economies the supply of workers has jumped dramatically, and it's no accident that that that period ( late 80's, early 90's ) corresponds to the extreme joblessnes and angst seen among the Generation X group.

The other factor in these declines in living standards is inflation.

Inflation has an insidious, double effect on the average worker, who doesn't think about much more than how he's going to finance his next RV, or how the Steelers will fare against the Giants.

Inflation is a form of hidden taxation that only sophisticated people understand and guard against. To put it simply, via inflation, which really started to take off in the 70's, governments have been taking more money out of workers' pockets. Inflation also masks the changes that are taking place, since incomes are always going up in dollar terms.

Most workers can sense that their living standard is melting away, and try to fight against it by asking for raises, but there's never any real means, apart from keeping your own records, to tell how you're faring against inflation. Government numbers don't mean anything in real life- they're cooked, and they include all sorts of things that the average person doesn't consume.

In an inflation-free world ( or a world using a commodity such as gold for money ) the changes would be obvious- companies would offer workers deals where they take wage rollbacks or lose their jobs as the company moves production overseas. This has in fact been happening in the meat packing industry here in Canada where prices have been static for a long time. And in the cases where workers have taken a hard line- their factories have indeed been shut down! Every factory town in Canada knows how hard finding new jobs for guys with no intellectual skills is going to be too. In Oshawa, Ontario, GM announced that it was accepting applications for 700 new jobs 2 summers ago. 10,000 people showed up at the plant gates to hand-deliver their resumes, and the first ones started camping out at the plant entrance 4 days before the start of the job competition. There was no way GM was going to read 10,000 resumes, so they started feeding people into the HR dept. as they submitted their applications and only went through the first couple of thousand applicants.

Don't believe thos gov't figures about low unemployment. They get them by including all the substandard part-time work desparate people are taking, and the people who work from home, often earning very low incomes. John Crudele had a great article on this phenomenon a few months back.

This kind of thing has sent shudders through the industry, and some meatpackers locals have actually caved in to rollbacks- a new phenomenon. The meat packers are hardbitten union guys too- they're right up there with the teamsters & steelworkers in toughness terms.

Has the trend stopped? Not at all. Intellectual work such as mainframe software development is already moving overseas, to India and Barbados, of all places. India's nuclear adventures couldn't have come at a better time for US software workers, but either India will clean up its act, or another country will step up to compete. A new equilibrium will be reached where the fruits of the world's production are distributed more thinly among more workers all over the world- and people who are unaware of the trends will continue wonder why they just can't seem to make ends meet any more.

- Steve

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 08:03
EJ (@Gollum, blooper, mozel, Donald) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gollum, thx for the detailed 1920s/30s scenario. My comments re: Credit wealth disappeared almost overnight and folks putting their savings into the suckers' rally. I don't see folks putting their savings into the suckers' rally this time because... they don't have any savings. If the average American has any savings they have it in the stock market, which they've been brainwashed into thinking is a big bank that returns 10-20% annual interest ad infinitum, or at least if it goes down... 401K Owners' Mantra: It'll go back up again.

Most folks have no savings and live paycheck to paycheck. The stock market crash will not directly cause a depression this time either. But a stock market crash will destroy trillions in paper wealth and will cause some businesses to lay people off, people who will have few reserves since they've been keeping their reserves in the stock market. High unemployment among a population of folks with few reserves means too few dollars in an economy that is overcapacity even now when there's lots of buys around. This is a deflationary scenario.

If gold goes to $600 and oil to $45, what have you gained if you own gold? You haven't except you are better off than the guy holding $ cash, deflating equities, or bonds returning interest at less than the rate of inflation.

Gold bugs, high yield bond bugs, soy oil bugs... It doesn't pay to get too attached to a thing, even a house, if your objective is to make money from it. I love gold, I admit it. It is beautiful, is an ancient and universal symbol of tangible value. Still, in the 1980s I sold most of what I'd bought in the early 1970s. I waited until Dec. 1997 to buy some at $287. I am pleased to own some again but will, reluctantly, sell it the next time I think it's close to a top.

blooper, I may be wrong but I thought decreases in Asia imports were the primary reason for low oil prices and warm winters second.

mozel, My $.02 on martial law. A nation's civilan government may temporarily give over control of the use of force in civilian operations from its civilian police to its military when that nation's government cannot effectively maintain civil order with civilian police. On the other hand, when over a period of many years the population of a nation loses faith in its civilian government to get things done and the military becomes relatively more effective at fulfilling civilian government obligations to its people, the civilian government abandons its to authority to govern. Then you're really in deep doo doo. Sometimes a nation's military causes the civilian government to abandon its to authority to govern, via threats of use of force against the government, creating a self-fulfilling prophesy in its own favor.

Donald, Australian dollar under attack. Who's next!

-EJ



Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:58
Shlomo (JTF/Re:standard of living) ID#288399:
Copyright © 1998 Shlomo/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Drop in standard of living, post early-60's, also coincided with rise in divorce. Many of my girlfiends married divorced men who had children from a previous marriage. Children are expensive, and if someone wants to have serial families, society pays for that. In these particular cases, my girlfriends had to go to work to make up the child support their husbands had to pay for previous families. Sorry, if the wording is crude. Also, some women from lower-middle class end up needing government assistance after the husbands leave them. This is paid for by higher taxes on working families. Not to mention the cost in productivity on people who are wrangling over assets and children during and after a divorce. Sin costs.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:58
jims (Rangy, I have the same ?) ID#252391:
but my led weight is Harmony ( HGMCY ) .

Anybody seen a PD and PT quote.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:49
downunder__A (JTF) ID#27341:
could you please ask that nice man Mr sorrow not to stomp on the poor old Aussie $ or we won,t give him any gold when the time comes.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:40
JTF (Euro and gold backing) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
jims: I think the announcement is this week or next. May be a non-event however. My guess if that the Euro CB'ers ( central bankers, that is ) may want to play down gold for a time -- too much deflation going on.

I just had one perverse idea -- what if Germany needed to sell gold due to worries about foreign investments going sour? What better way to do that than into a gold rally? Time will tell us how much money they lost already in those SEAsian trades -- either due to credit risk or trade risk. It's hard when both the winners and losers in derivatives trades lose.

I think the most bullish news about gold will not be an announcement about the Euro. It will be the fact that we cannot raise rates, and AG probably has to inflate the dollar some more to keep the deflatiion monster at bay. England can, we can't. Roles reversed since the 30's when the world went off the pound sterling.

The secret weapon in all of this is the effect on earnings of derivatives trades gone sour. This potentially disastrous effect will not be on the markets directly, but on earnings reports. Sort of like a ground hugging cruise missle -- it can get you where you least expect it -- from behind. This old earnings popping secret weapon will be bearish for gold, not bullish, when it hits. Perhaps the British are not so dumb after all -- raise interest rates, bring down the market bubble, put what money is left into safer investments. Not the markets. We are not so fortunate as the British.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:35
WetGold (RANGY.....) ID#187218:
I bought the mother-lode of RANGY between 1.10 and 1.15 ....... should I keep buying all the way down
.
.
Any new analysis by the Kitco experts .....................

TIA

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:34
Silverbaron (jims @ EURO gold backing) ID#289357:
I've seen 2 dates on this - June 7th and 9th.....don't know which is correct.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:34
ravenfire (hacking into the Indian Nuclear Center... hehe) ID#333126:
http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/98/112883.html

how vulnerable the world,
how fragile our lifestyle,
wherefore in 2000?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:30
WetGold (near-miss in NY...) ID#187218:
Come on ... where's the Y2K experts .... April was Y2K awareness month and the FAA's outmoded tracking equipment did not upgrade ................................................. LaGuardia is a timebomb waiting to happen BUT it has nothing to do with Y2K ... sorry, but true ...
.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:23
John Disney__A (I suggest) ID#24135:
Salty..
That you flunk them both .. I saw
no answers to your pop quiz ..
No more Mr Nice Guy..

And farfel is a truant .. He
must bring a note from his doctor..
.. or his lawyer ..

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:23
jims (EURO Gold Backing?) ID#252391:
Anybody remeber whn the Euro members were going to meet to decide the gold backing for the Euro? These seems to have been forgotten? It has by me. Anybody remember.

This is shaping up to potentially be a nasty day for mining shares. Anybody own any any more.?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:18
JTF (Logging off for chores) ID#57232:
downunder: I keep forgetting about the temporal discontinuity! Good morning ( upover ) == Good evening ( downunder ) . Greetings, regardless, to the more rational, civilized, thoughtful denizens of Kitcoworld.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:11
downunder__A (good evening JTF,) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 07:05
JTF (Bottoming Commodity price index) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
blooper: I think you said that you expected the commodity price index to bottom. I agree with you. The problem is when? One thing is clear about the last 45 years or so. Our fiat currency money management has been very good - so far - in protecting us from deflationary price periods during recessions. In the so-called not so good old days, we had more cyclic inflationary and deflationary commodity price changes, but on average over many years, most prices remained fairly constant. Now, with fiat non-gold based currencies, commodities tend only to go up, not down. This current world-wide deflationary period is an exception to the rule.

My only problem with your prediction is --- when? When will the cry0 bottom, and begin to rise again? On long term cycles, the oversold condition should be for cry0 about 200 hundred ( now at 215 ) , so it may bottom in the next six months to two years or so. Hopefully you can help us come up with a better prediction. Very important for planning gold investments.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:44
JTF (Good morning, sharefin) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Happy birthday from Upover!

aurator: I may be able to post at work, but my day job is 7 days/week, and 10hours/day most weekdays. Too many bosses also. About 7 last count.

RJ: You are welcome to review the data on the Jini index. This information does not come from only one source. Just ask Donald. There are many sources that tell us that the highest standard of living for the average middle class American was about 1965, and it has been dropping ever since. In those days, one did not need two jobs, or spouse working. Also the welfare roles were non-existent. We need to review what created those unusually good times. Think they were post Korean war, pre-Kennedy. Stock market did very well, no inflation, US dollar still backed firmly by gold. Savings rates were very high, too.

Some of our problems with the younger generation come from the fact that so many peoplehave to burn the midnight oil to keep the same standard of living. Not the only reason though, as our culture has become used to debt and places too much emphasis on aquisition. I always get a kick out of how we save the world from pollution by buying a new car ( every year? ) . The pollution, and environmental resource consumption of a new car probably outweighs the environmental benefits of higher efficiencies by 5 years or more. If we were really environmentally conscious, we would buy a new car rarely, and it would be high efficiency. Probably solar/hydrogen/electric. So far, just lip service by our industry. Just wait till the next oil crisis. Fuel cells just around the corner too. Highly efficient but tempermental -- need clean fuel.

All: One very exciting discovery reported this AM. Neutrinos have ( some ) mass. This may lead to clues regarding gravity, and the missing mass of the universe. Supports aspects of 'string theory' too. Could be the Neutrino flux pushes all matter together, giving us gravity. Too early to tell.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:42
Nick@C (Darwin preparations? Harr harr--talk about an oxymoron.) ID#386279:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Auracious:

I think that my first post to he poster now known as Candelabra enquired about the safety of Darwin.

What say you now Cannabeera? How fares that Cyclone-ravaged town? I've not been there since the cyclone of ,
when was it? 1973? How are the preparations going in Darwin?


Mate--in many surveys over the years Darwin has rated as the highest beer consuming city in the world. A little story here. I have a mate who was in the devastating Cyclone Tracy ( 1974 ) that leveled the city. He was with a bunch of mates drinking beer in a basement after a run with the Hash House Harriers. They pissed on all night and noticed a bit of noise from the building above. Just thought it was a noisier than usual rain storm. Staggered out in the morning to find the city gone. I mean GONE. Looked like a parking lot strewn with rubbish. Those who live in Florida would know what I mean.

Actually, I think they now require more rubber bands to hold down their houses. BTW--what has this got to do with the POG I have decided that it is definitely, most assuredly going UP, soon.......maybe.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:38
Gollum (@goldy88) ID#43349:
Wouldn't negative lease rates mean that THEY are actually paying
YOU to take the stuff?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:36
Donald (Russian gold export news.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980605/russia_gol_1.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:28
Donald (@Aurator) ID#26793:
There is a wave change sweeping around the world. Central planning and big government is seen to be a failure where artificial boundries have been established that violate the diverse cultures of which you speak. Russia, Yugoslavia are two prime examples. Indonesia is a holdover from artificial Dutch colonial days. Many African examples are holdovers from European colonial days.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:26
aurator () ID#255284:
Perth@Steve
A link is better than Larouche, yes?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:23
aurator (I come from a land down under.......) ID#255284:
Donald
Stralia has the greatest resources of any country on earth. Truly, it tis The lucky Country. Course, the downside is its full of stralians, anyway. The western, freedom loving alliances must very quickly wake up to this plethora of plenty. Many of the strategic metals are found her,. there is energy in abundance. i fear, that merka has overlooked her natural and strategic allies down under. Oh yes, BTW, as the straliam dollars tanks, so does the kiwi. But precious holds her own.

Good precious!!!


nite nite.



Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:23
Nick@C (Nick's-see-through-plastic-ruler-BB-Aussie-gold-chart-update.) ID#386279:
Now just slap your s-t-p-r on some bottoms here ( harr,harr--don't get too excited ) .

Join the recent low with the May low and the Nov. logjam ( ignore the chicken-short panic sellers in Nov. and all that Dec. stuff ) .

Now we have another nice straight line here. I DARE anyone to violate that line on the downside!!

http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/g-ind.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:22
Steve - Perth__A (News on Russia, China, IMF, Bretton Woods etc etc etc) ID#284170:
Copyright © 1998 Steve - Perth__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Larouche Musings 4th June 98

LaRouche a Factor in the Russia Crisis -

NANCY SPANNAUS: Well, I think we can look at Russia as the next phase of the global financial crisis. It's the whole Eurasian subcontinent blowing up. This has impressed itself on other members of the administration, who are actually now saying, like Larry Summers and Rubin, that this is a crisis with global implications which could blow things up, perhaps literally, in terms of what's going on in the world financial markets, the world economy, socially, militarily, and so forth.

But I look at it, that the tragedy in this matter, so far, although it need not be a tragedy, is that the administration has known, or crucial people in the administration like Strobe Talbott, for example, who is still a highly-respected advisor to the President, people around Al Gore who brief him to say what he should say, knew back in 1993, in December of 1993, that IMF conditionalities for Russia were a disaster. They, at that time, Gore and Strobe Talbott both took trips to Russia, and they came back, and they said, we need less shock, more therapy. Gore said this is a disaster for the people who are being thrown out of work in Russia. And now, of course, five years later, you've got people who haven't been paid for months and months, and even potentially, years, because of the fact that the MF has said they had to put budgetary priorities above the priorities of the social condition of the population, or the production prerequisites for keeping that population alive.

So the fact is, that at that time, when the Clinton administration was coming into office, really only been there for a while, they saw the crisis, they were aware of Mr. LaRouche's intervention against the IMF, even at that point, and yet, as soon as the IMF screamed, which it did in a virtually unprecedented statement, series of statements that was put out in January of that year, saying: the IMF program has to go ahead, it has to full-steam ahead. Don't listen to these people who want to soft peddle it. This--this Clinton administration backed off. And therefore, they set up a situation where at the present time, and increasingly over these years, many people in Russia, see the U.S. administration as behind these horrible conditions. They even see George Soros as an American! Which of course, he isn't. He's a British subject. He operates out of the Netherlands Antilles.

Now, the good news is that Lyndon LaRouche, the economist and the essential leader of this magazine, and movement, has enormous in credibility, and extensive presence in Russia, virtually once a month, if not more frequently, one of his collaborators in Russia writes a major article in a major newspaper in Moscow, on Mr. LaRouche's New Bretton Woods proposal, and critiques of the IMF, even on Mr. LaRouche's theories of physical economy, which are well-known and discussed in academic circles in Russia, which are much more prominent than they are here in the United States in terms of decision making.

So, the bad news is, the administration has walked right into a Classical tragedy, essentially by not listening to LaRouche, and by not really moving ahead on what it knew to be true; the good news is that there is tremendous ferment intellectually around Mr. LaRouche's ideas among very prominent circles: Sergei Glazyev, one of the academicians over there, who's an advisor to the top levels of government in Russia, has chosen to publish in EIR, has ideas very close to those of Mr. LaRouche, and these ideaas are being discussed as alternatives, and therefore the option for the Clinton administration to shift policy, on Russia in particular, and on the New Bretton Woods policy, is very much a pratical one.


EIR: Yesterday, Bill Jones, EIR's Washington correspondent, gave us an exclusive report on the fraud of the phony national security satellite scandal against Clinton, which is being used to attempt to delay or hurt the President's forthcoming summit trip to China. Now, having seen that Nancy, you've been writing in New Federalist about this forthcoming China summit. Can you tell us about its significance?

China Needs Machine Tool Inputs from the West -

NANCY SPANNAUS: It's extremely important that the President go ahead with this summit. I think he's given every indication that he will, in order to pursue the strategic partnership, which both he and President Jiang Zemin of China spoke of when Jiang Zemin was here last fall, and of course, we at EIR have been promoting this kind of collaboration, particularly around one great project which the Chinese have picked up. It's rather an extention of the Productive Triangle concept, which Mr. and Mrs. LaRouche were promoting from 1990 on, called the Eurasian Land-Bridge, and while we don't expect that to be on the agenda of the summit, we do expect that the President is going to be pursuing the Ron Brown approach to economic cooperation with the largest country in the world, as part of a way of creating an environment for peace and development in the entire world.

Now, this is extremely important to go ahead. It happens, of course while China, as every other Asian nation, is actually under concerted financial attack. There's an attempt that the administration keeps talking about it, and I think it's consumed the Chinese quite a bit, to get the Chinese to revalue their currency, devalue their currency, and they're under pressure because the export markets are collapsing, and so forth and so on. They've tried to be cooperative with the current institutions, but they can see the potential for social chaos in the area, and explosion, wars even, which had become a thing of the past, and now they're very concerned with this economic perspective, as also a matter of whether we're going to have peace and national security in the region.

So, the President and Jiang Zemin have some very important economic and strategic issues to discuss, as they are meeting over the ten days at the end of this month.

EIR: We were just discussing before the break the forthcoming Clinton China summit, and Nancy, I understand Helga Zepp LaRouche has written something about the summit. Can you tell us what she said?

NANCY SPANNAUS: Yes, what she's speaking about is the fact that China has some very specific needs in the immediate period, not only to defend itself from currency attack, but for its own stability. It needs to carry out an economic development program, which it's begun to do--the Chinese did, a few months ago, announce a $1 trillion internal infrastructure program, and they need that because they have enormous unemployment problems still--it's a nation of 1.2 billion people. It's still underdeveloped in many respects, and they're now under pressure of the international financial crisis, and cutback in exports, so they, to maintain stability in China, they're going to need to carry out an economic program on a scale that's very hard for us Americans to conceive, and the only, only parellel at all is what Roosevelt did in vast rural areas of this country in the 1930s, and even that is much, much smaller than what the Chinese have to do.

So, her concern was that, what be understood here in the West, is that the security of China economically and socially is critical for the national security of the West, and that the specific role that we should be playing, is as machine tool providers for these infrastructure projects, which are pretty much on the boards--probably the only one people here know about particularly is the Three Gorges Dam, but there are rail projects, there are new city projects, there are bridge projects, and so forth, and so on, which are absolutely critical to upgrading the living standards of the people there. And the Chinese do want to cut down on their state bureaucracy, and have a real problem putting people to work productively, to get themselves out of this crisis.

So, in a statement which will appear in the New Federalist in the short term, Mrs. LaRouche said, look, this is what's required: machine tool inputs into China to make sure that they can carry out this kind of internal economic development. And, that she very much hoped that the delegation that President Clinton will be leading, which will include a good number of industrialists--we don't know how many--will have this perspective in mind, in terms of building up the potential for an economic boom, from the U.S.-China relationship.

EIR: On a related question, I understand that EIR is going to issue a new videotape in about two weeks on the systemic economic crisis and LaRouche's solution to it. Can you give us a preview of that upcoming videotape?

NANCY SPANNAUS: I can give you something of ideas that have gone into it. We're very much going to focus on the fact that LaRouche has been projecting this blowout, this second phase of blowout which is now hitting in the second quarter of 1998. We'll be dealing with the fact that he said that the IMF would lead to disaster. It did lead to disaster. In Indonesia, in Russia, coming in Ibero-America, and coming to Western Europe, and the United States as well. There's an interesting cartoon in one of the newspapers in Western Europe just yesterday--it might have been in London, or maybe in Germany, where they showed a tidal wave about to overcome the Eiffel Tower, the Tower of London, and other very recognizable European landmarks, and that tidal wave was called the Asian Crisis.

So this idea, in concrete, has been elaborated by LaRouche for a good while now, and particularly over the past year, and we're going to document how he did that, and the solutions which he put forward that could be implemented by the governments, must be implemented by governments in the fairly short term, if not before the crisis blows out the entire monetary system, at least at the point that the crisis does that, because, it's at that point that particularly the presidency of the United States, in collaboration with other major nations, especially China, but also other nations, need to pull together and put a new Bretton Woods system in place.

EIR: Could you expand on the Roosevelt analogy, which you drew earlier--between what Clinton has to do now, and what Roosevelt did at the end of the war, or earlier?

NANCY SPANNAUS: Well, there are two points, really, of crisis, where Roosevelt moved in a very decisive manner, in a manner that Clinton should act, should have already acted in many respects. The first was when he first came into office on the banking crisis, which is perhaps the more parallel, in terms of a sense of emergency, to what Clinton will face as this crisis begins to hit the whole banking system in an uncontrollable way. Right now they just print paper. But at a certain point, that will break down. The other point was the founding of the Bretton Woods system itself, which occurred in 1944, when, within the last year of FDR's life, and at that point, the war was still going on, and he was looking toward, in a much broader, strategic sense, of how it was going to be possible to have economic growth in a post-colonial era -- what he hoped to be a post-colonial era, once Hitler was eliminated, then you would also be able to eliminate the British empire, the French empire, the Dutch empire and so forth, and actually develop places around the world.

So he was allied at that point with the Chinese, in terms of the republican Chinese; he was allied with Russia, the Soviet Union, in the specific sense of saying, we have to eliminate an imperial system, which is preventing economic development all over the world. And that is the kind of global, long-term approach which Clinton can only get from LaRouche at this point. Really, there is a generational question, of those who-- President Clinton knows some history, and in that sense he can bridge the generational gap, but there's a question of understanding strategically the need to make a strategic, military-like intervention, at a certain period of time which will never come again, and that's what LaRouche has been attempting to advise Clinton to do, or has been advising, although he has not yet done it, over this last year or two, that we are at a point of history when it's not going to be possible to say, I only want to think about healthcare this year. I don't want to think about world economic relations. Just as when Roosevelt was totally absorbed with the idea of winning the war, he had to think of what comes after the war, because you never win a war unless you win the peace. What kind of institutions are we going to put into effect, that will make sure such wars don't happen again?

And that Bretton Woods system worked for a while. It worked much less well than Roosevelt had hoped, because the decision-makers in the United States actually shut off the machine-tool export policy, which was required. But the general outlines of policy of what's required right now are very similar, and because we have LaRouche's strategic and economic thinking, we're actually in better shape to be able to carry them out, if we can get the exoneration of LaRouche, and the movement on his ideas that is required.

EIR: Right. So this is, in a sense, a proven principle, which, while it had flaws, certainly porvided the most prosperous decades of this century in the post-war period until it was progressively shut down up to 1971.

What other differences are there between LaRouche's new Bretton Woods and the original Bretton Woods arrangement of 1944?

SPANNAUS: Well, for one thing, the original Bretton Woods set up the International Monetary Fund, and its days are more than numbered. I think that we're beginning to pick up at EIR a plethora of forums all over the world, talking about, what happens, now that the IMF is out of money, can't do anything, seems to have failed absolutely everywhere? Do we need it? What do we do without it, and so forth. And under these circumstances, LaRouche's new Bretton Woods proposal is really very much in the center of things.

The IMF at the beginning, of course, was not set up to replace sovereign governments; it has increasingly come to replace sovereign governments, and Mr. LaRouche's new Bretton Woods proposal would absolutely restore the power of sovereign governments, making new treaty arrangements to prevent this from happening. It would be a gold reserve system, not a gold standard; it would control speculation, probably in a much more specific way than the original Bretton Woods proposal did, which, while it had fixed currencies, did not actually face the same amount of international speculation that you have right now, where you have, you know, many times the reserves of particular governments floating around the world under the names of people like George Soros, but what are actually huge institutional funds, from the Rothschilds and other major banking institutions which as just coming in like a tidal wave and ripping off everything that's there, and going back out to take it back to the homes of some of these financial oligarchs.

So the fact is, it will be different in that sense, and it will be different in the sense that it will introduce an era of infrastructure development that will be much more explicit and prominent, because unfortunately, when this was established at the end of World War II, you did not have leaders with that kind of vision; really, that only people you have now with that kind of vision, very visible, are in China, because they're talking about eliminating poverty -- the kinds of things that President Kennedy talked about, and we haven't heard about in the United States, except from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement, for over thirty years. This is now being discussed, and this is absolutely-- People are going to have to readjust, as I think some of them are beginning to do, to the fact that we're not now looking for quality of life, and what kind of entertainment do you get is best for your kids, and so forth. You're going to be looking at basic questions of pulling people out of the threat of disease, of providing clean water for people, of expanding the horizons of science so that we actually can prevent a new dark age on this planet.



Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:20
Donald (London morning gold fix at $292.20) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980605/london_gol_2.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:17
aurator (Ring of Fire) ID#255284:
-
Donald
Indonesia shares this with India, China, Italy, Germany and France, the present geographical entity is such because of Imperial conquest of one city/state/island over the rest.
The country we call Indonesia contains many score of peoples, cultures, languages and beliefs, ruled by am Imperialistic Javanese Muslim Family. That rule is at an end. I pray for the many fine people I have met throughout these hundred islands. From the Christian Portuguese Timorese in the East to the animalist Meninkabau in W Sumatra, that they may be free of this corrupt regime. This fowl ( sic ) Suharto pestilence.

However, the strategic effect of this chaos to western and global trade is of great concern. The Straight of Malacca, 150 ships a day..

I think that my first post to he poster now known as Candelabra enquired about the safety of Darwin.

What say you now Cannabeera? How fares that Cyclone-ravaged town? I've not been there since the cyclone of , when was it? 1973? How are the preparations going in Darwin?


Cassandraur@tor

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:13
Donald (Yen weakens on rumor of Hashimoto involvement in financial scandal.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980605/yen_on_def_2.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:10
Donald (OZ dollar at 12 year low; described as Armageddon Scenario currency crisis.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980605/australia__2.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:06
Donald (BOJ says difficult to restore confidence and avoid deflationary spiral.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980605/getting_ha_1.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 06:02
Donald (Headline only. Story not available yet.) ID#26793:
Muslim Protesters Stage Demonstration Outside U.S.
Embassy in Jakarta, Accusing Washington of Interfering in Internal
Affairs of Indonesia

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:57
Donald (Indonesia) ID#26793:
My morning newspaper has a story about the Indonesian provinces asking for independence from the central government. Can't find it on the web.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:43
Donald (IMF is down to its last $12 billion) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980604/rubin_meet_1.html

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:41
Auric (The Halves and Have Nots ) ID#255151:

We ain't gonna see Silver @ 3.50. However, if we do, then the logical move is to get into Kennnedy halves minted from '65-'69. The max downside to this investment is Silver to about 3-2-5. At that level, the face value of the coin is worth the Silver content. If we get to $3.50, then I will put everything I have into Kennedy halves.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:35
jims (Europe up) ID#252391:
Looks like its another of those 1/2% to one percent rally morning in Euorpe dispiite the fact the French transportation is closed down with the world cup just five days away.

Yen at 139 on news the Prime Minister may be forced to resign over illegal contribution.

Oh boy more reason to buy American

Gold down a dime in Londan, Silver up a cent. Oil rally seems to have fizzled Benigned neglect looks to be the new tac for the B of Japan.

Dollar to stay strong - tough environment for Gold.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:27
Ersel ( Happy Birthday, sharefin !!!!!!!!!!!!) ID#230376:

The very best to you and yours ! I'd like to thank your father and mother, also . Without them you would not be and this place and the world as I know it would be an emptier place. Thanks For being !!!!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:27
jims (Correction) ID#252391:
June 5th at 5am we perdicted we'd never see $3.50. Five on the fifth. I got it now. Armstrong hear that!!!!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:24
Auric (Correction on Loral) ID#255151:

Lost about 20% or so in the last month, not 30%. Bet it gets hit for more in the next 12 months.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:16
Auric (Loral Getting Hit) ID#255151:

Lost about 30% or so in the last month. http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=LOR&d=3m

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 05:11
jims (June 5th a midnight....) ID#252391:
I'll remember that's where to find those perdictions that will never see $3.50 silver.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE EURO BACKING - has that been forgotten?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 04:46
Auric (Silver @ $3.50) ID#255151:

About as likely as Gold in 5 figures.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 04:35
Auric (Silver @ $3.50 ) ID#255151:

Look, I hope Armstrong is right on his $3.50 Silver projection. Would give me an excuse to convert my 401K to fiat FRN notes, and thence to junk Silver. Silver @ $3.50 is whistling Dixie, IMO.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 04:24
Auric (Silver @ $3.50) ID#255151:

HA! If that happens, then I convert every cyber dollar into junk Silver coins. Armstrong is a F*ing idiot if he thinks Silver will get that low.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:53
aurator (Crusty) ID#257148:
dindey or diddey ( Limey ) answer the Platinum Question?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:50
EB (away........) ID#187109:
to the bunker.........

Éß

go silver.....and, of course, the beloved Platinum...........uh huh.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:49
jims (Did I miss something) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Silver inventories fell below 89million Goose reports. That's a first in a while but who cares. I think silver is leaving NY for the secrecy of Europe, but can be returned by Concord to satisfy short sales should that ever become necessary. Anyway silver stocks down - so is the price of silver. I notice also that it was up yesterday on very light volumn. Last week at just about precisly this time it was trading at $4.91.

Did the EURO folks reschedule their planned decision on the backing of the EURO. Haven't noticed a single word on the subject. Meeting was to be the 9th, wasn't it. Did something change or has interest in that subject been totally lost to fear of deflation..

Last week at this time we were talking about Armstrong's $3.50 projection for silver. I think it need a good grain rally to get going.

Fill me in on where I lost the plot regards the Euro decision on Gold and related timing, please.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:48
John Disney__A (?) ID#24135:
for swp1
Is that Sydney Didney

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:48
Auric (Federal Reserve) ID#255151:

Alice Rivlin is Vice Chairman of the Fed. Now isn't that nice. Here is the URL to see the members of the Fed-- http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/bios/ An incompetent Fed would be dangerous in the abscence of Alan Greenspan. Alice Rivlin in charge of US monetary policy. HA! That ought to help Gold!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:47
John Disney__A (Lets have fun) ID#24135:
swp1..
World cruise sounds good to me..

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:46
EB (hmmmmmmm....) ID#187109:
-
So to be patriots as not to forget we are gentlemen

Edmund Burke

-------------------------------------

A patriot is a fool in ev'ry age

Alexander Pope

-------------------------------------

A steady patriot of the world alone, The freind of every country but his own

George Canning

-------------------------------------

and finally........

-------------------------------------

These are the times that try mens souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine PATRIOT will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolidation with us, that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteam too lightly; 'tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed, if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.

Thomas Paine....... ( a Merkan )

----------------------------------------------

go gold

away....for the eve

Éß

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:46
SWP1 (2@ RJ; Didney - Thanks) ID#233199:


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:45
John Disney__A (Things Change) ID#24135:
for Jims
I wrote it ..
Gold is below 200 MA see my posts..
Harmony is a gold mine ..
It went up a lot ..
Issuing new shares is problematic..
I sold out and told everybody I did..
I will buy it back at $3.25 maybe.
Yes sir Ree

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:43
SWP1 (@ Disney) ID#233199:

They got mhng big planned for all those bucks other tha a world cruise?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:41
John Disney__A (It all depends) ID#24135:
For SWP1
Many ways to take it
1... as it comes
2... with grain of salt
3... but don shake it
4... laying down
5... lightly
6... seriously
7... since money will be paid for new shares ..
value of company per share will be unchanged..
8... like a man
9... straight from the shoulder

Can I stop now

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:32
Auric (Fed Incompetence) ID#255151:

Is Alice Rivlen a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors? It is an appropriate question since she will be making decisions on the US$ which affects Gold.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:30
RJ (..... What so proudly we hailed .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

EB @ ( IdCiBMs ) -

Hey! I see the hidden message in your oooooooohhhh soooooo clever acronym

You are targeting my neighborhood right now

With guidance technology you bought from LGB for a song

I just know it.

I better fire mine first then, yes?

M.A.D. all around, enough for everybody.

On my Mark insert key and rotate left to arm missiles

Three… Two…. One….. Mark!

Whoosh………. Klablam!

Don’t blame me, EB missile monger message boy started it all.

Deal with it

OK


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:29
jims (To: John Disney (HGNCY new stock?!)) ID#252391:
What's this about HGMCY putting out new stock. Is this to acquire the Canadian property of one in SA. Was it you that wrote the articel on Harmony -why not still bullish

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:21
Hedgehog (Dear Tim) ID#39857:
Thank you for your letter of 23rd, which came during my absence-
At S.F I met Oscar whom I had not seen for several years. He tells me that he has given LSD to 100 painters who have done pictures before, during and after the drug, and whose efforts are being appraised by a panel of art critics.
..................................
Yours
Aldous H.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:21
RJ (..... Late Night Lime Report .....) ID#410215:

After El Nino driven storms decimated the early '98 RJ Lime Crop, there has been great uncertainty whether there would be any Lime production this year at all. After bumping up the Iron ( Thanks Fred in Vienna ) , a little sunshine, and lots of love ( feeling warm all over ) , new tender blossoms have appeared. There will be limes this year. Indeedy.

Praise be to the crop gods…………

OK


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:19
EB (IDCIBMS) ID#187109:
i don't care i'm buying more silver................maÑana ( ! ) .

away.........to the charts

Éß

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:13
EB (Cherokee-Dude) ID#187109:
-
I like your style bro. SM is due for a seasonality bounce and it sure is lookin reeeeeeeeal goood right now....... ( maybe ) ;- ) .... 75% accurate if you buy Oct. Meal on 6/15 and sell one week later. ( just a seasonal I follow ) ....... but you can bet dollars to donuts that I will be in on that one. This is one market that is ready........uh huh....... ( guar-an-DAMN-tee! )

I am stocking up on MORE out-o-money calls and selling some puties in some...........¡ohmy! Givin myself plenty of time..........'tis funny, I am reading ALL over that sugar volatility is WAY high but I see that calls and puts are priced fairly............

http://www.pmpublishing.com/volatility/hs.html

...............I'm buyin' more........I need to go to Vegas real soon and take care o' this itch I got................. ( scratch-scratch ) ......... ( throwin the bones ) ..................... ( seven! ) ...............

away........to book the flight

Éß

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:11
goldy88 (lease rates on silver:To ALL) ID#42039:
Concretly what does it mean when lease rates are negative?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:10
RJ (..... From an earlier post this eve .....) ID#410215:

SWP1 -

Easier to just paste it:

Silver looks as if it has set up a major bottom here and all signs point to a buy. I’m not buying. Not yet I ain’t. 4.98 wasn’t low enough, it smells lower. Still and all, it looks good here. Others may dip their stick, Mine own shall stay unwetted at 5.25 silver.

In other words, I don't know.

Huh uh


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:10
aurator (oops, something got cut off...) ID#257148:
Coward
n.:
One who in a perilous emergency thinks with his legs.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:08
Auric (Alan Greenspan) ID#255151:

Think his term expires in August 1999. From what I've heard, the members of the Federal Reserve Board are not up to the job. They are mostly politicaly correct appointees. They are the Central Banking equivalent of Massachussetts soccer games where they don't keep score. We just may have an incompetent Fed running US monetary policy in the critical time from 1999 to 2000.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:07
RJ (..... Uh Ohhhhhhh .....) ID#410215:

I never shoulda' given Mozel so much ammo all at once. He will soon be intoxicated with this collected suspicion of love of country. Some good grist, aye Mozey?

Yes


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:05
SWP1 (@RJ - If you are still there) ID#233199:
What is your latest call on silver - please

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:02
RJ (..... The more I read it the less I like it .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Patriotism - A bit-o-follow up:

No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots. Barbara Ehrenreich 1991

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. Luis Buñuel 1983

Never was patriot yet, but was a fool. John Dryden 16th century

Everyone loathes his own country and countrymen if he is any sort of artist. Lawrence Durrell 1948

Whenever you hear a man speak of his love for his country, it is a sign that he expects to be paid for it. H. L. Mencken 1949

A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards. More than that no man is entitled to, and less than that no man shall have. Theodore Roosevelt 1903

What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what we mean is a sense of national responsibility . . . a patriotism which is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. Adlai Stevenson 1952

I do not mean to exclude altogether the idea of patriotism. I know it exists, and I know it has done much in the present contest. But I will venture to assert, that a great and lasting war can never be supported on this principle alone. It must be aided by a prospect of interest, or some reward. George Washington 1778

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be American before ( or in contradistinction to ) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism! Edith Wharton 1919

Yes


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 03:00
blooper (Who Knows) ID#207145:
I darn sure dont, Goodnight men.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:59
downunder__A (bloopa, you may well be right.) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:59
blooper (Downunder,) ID#207145:
When gold is the only safe haven, it might, that is might do well. Soon, bonds will take themselves out, then we'll see.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:58
aurator (Geeting to you too Limey,) ID#257148:
-
also from Bierce, ain't he something else?
=========================================================================Coward, n.:
One who in a perilous emergency thinks with his legs.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

=========================================================================
Dentist, n.:
A Prestidigitator who, putting metal in one's mouth, pulls
coins out of one's pockets.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
=========================================================================
Kleptomaniac, n.:
A rich thief.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
========================================================================

Wit, n.:
The salt with which the American Humorist spoils his cookery
... by leaving it out.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
=========================================================================


salty

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:58
EB (Patriotic-prize-pilfering-pal) ID#187109:
you tryin' to steal glory? ( ! )
away...to get the rope
Éß

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:57
SWP1 (@ John Disney - Re: Harmony Shares) ID#233199:

What's the right way to take it?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:57
sam (Sam_A et all) ID#288140:
This pistol-packin', vodka-swilling, blues-lovin' goldbug is gonna quit posting. I'll still be lurking here and hanging out over at Kitco Bar & Grill. Fall by when you see the lights on at KB&G and pick up, er... pull up a stool at the solid gold bar, meet some nice folks, swap gun stories, munch a pickle, sip a wine cooler ( unh ) , chug a brewski or shoot some juice and groove to low-down-and-dirty blues on the juke. Thanks Bart! In a while crocodiles,...and don't take no wooden nickels.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:56
blooper (Down under,) ID#207145:
I agree with you, but, the fed is politicized.AG takes baby steps, and starts early. Hes late now.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:56
Auric (mozel) ID#255151:

If they got enough guns pointed at the right places, then yes, they will call the shots.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:55
John Disney__A (Marketing Rights) ID#24135:
for Mozel..
Please send info On Loral Afro Tracker.
Believe I have found niche market here.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:54
downunder__A (bloopa, safe havens are getting hard to find.) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:53
blooper (Mozel spreading SENSE) ID#207145:
I agrre wid youse. Go have 3 beers on me.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:52
John Disney__A (This was the plan..) ID#24135:
For tsclaw
Regarding Harmony issue of new
stock .. Believe Market will take this the
wrong way. I still plan to buy it at
$3.25 or less. If Im wrong, Then I'm
REALLY an ex-shareholder.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:51
mozel (@martial law) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Martial Law means the supremacy of the military over the civil authority of a nation.

In the guarantees that are the American inheritance from the English COnstitution at the time of Independence is the guarantee of immunity from martial law. This guarantee was made in the Petititon of RIght.

It is the very foundation of government according to the rule of law that the military remain subordinate to the civil authority at all times.

So, what is all this talk of martial law ? Are Americans prepared to be governed by Generals and Colonels ? And tried in courts martial ? And have no writ of habeas corpus if they are seized off the street and thrown in a dungeon ?

Martial law is not military law. Military law is according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Martial Law is NO LAW AT ALL. It is arbitrary rule by men. Period.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:51
downunder__A (bloopa, just asking ,i think fed timing is everything.) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:50
blooper (Downunder,) ID#207145:
Aussie dollars have left downunder, to come over here, which reduced the value of the aussie dollar. It's been flooding our market making our dollar go up. Now money is about to flow out. That means our dollar will lose value.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:47
downunder__A (sorry-double post,just a dimwit.) ID#27341:
GM

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:46
RJ (..... Geetin' Salty there fella' .....) ID#410215:

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Samuel Johnson ( 1709–1784 )

Under Ambrose Bierce’s entry for Patriotism in his Devil’s Dictionary, Bierce added: In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

OK


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:43
blooper (Downunder,) ID#207145:
Bear markets are also bear markets for the dollar. As funds leave the USA, the value of the dollar drops.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:41
blooper (GOLLUM, that makes 2 of us) ID#207145:
I can't see deflation, as i see commodities going up in price. I still believe in market cycles, and they end with rate increases. Oil and gold are late cycle stocks. Seasonality is coming up in both. When to buy has a lot to do with seasonality. For oil it starts with summer driving season. Some say Aug 25 is a good time to by gold. I do not have it figured out, but I am a student of history, ( seasonality ) .

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:41
downunder__A (Question) ID#27341:
is,nt higher interest rates a stronger dollar.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:40
downunder__A (Question) ID#27341:
is,nt higher interest rates a stronger dollar.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:36
mozel (@auric) ID#153102:
Only thing to do in my opinion after you think things through.


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:35
Gollum (Time) ID#43349:
Gosh! I lost track of the time. Guess I'll go get some shut eye.
See ya guys latah.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:34
blooper (GOLLUM,) ID#207145:
Remember the Arab Oil Embargo, and 800$ gold. Just an example of the interrelation.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:32
Auric (Mozel) ID#255151:

Re 401k's--Think one should get possession of 401k assets? I think so. Am doing that and buying Gold. Am also putting my Gold in PVC pipes!: )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:31
blooper (the dollar is 30% OVER VALUED.) ID#207145:
It will go down and soon. Gold and the Yen will go up. I am a simple guy , you may think a simpleton, but hide and watch. AG ain't losing sleep over wheather to drop right now. Tis economy is O.K. for this year.. But we will have 3 or so rate increases before spring. No drops.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:30
Gollum (@blooper) ID#43349:
I do not believe that gold is dead, but I do believe I am
naive on many things. I have no ability to accurately forsee
the future nor perfectly understand the present. I can but
dimly percieve much that has happened in the past.

It is hard for me, for example to percieve the exact connection
between gold and oil. Men were chasing after gold for hundreds,
nay thousands of years before they much gave a whit about oil.
Can you explain?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:29
Liberty (Inflation / Deflation song...(after a coupla glasses o' BV)) ID#263379:
You say doomation
and I say elation

You say deflation
and I say inflation

doomation, elation
deflation, inflation

Let's call the whole thing off !!



Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:27
aurator (It's Quote time!!) ID#257148:
-
Éß darn it, I didn’t know who said “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” It was an open invitation to my learnéd kitco colleagues, to tell me. Since you turned it into a competition, I had to look up my books of quotes, and before I tell you who actually did say it

____________________________________________

“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”
Clarence Darrow

____________________________________________

“That kind of patriotism which consists of hating all other nations.”
Elizabeth Gaskell.

____________________________________________

“One of the great attractions of patriotism - it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat. Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous.”
Aldous Huxley.

____________________________________________

and my new favourite quote on patriotism ( eh Earl? ) :

“I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.”
Nathan Hale.

____________________________________________

“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Yes indeedy, it was Samuel Johnson in his “Life of Boswell,”


Éß
Your prize? Let me think on’t.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:24
blooper (Low rates) ID#207145:
have the home building market white hot. This economy is over heating. We are on the verge of inflation, where in the world do you guys see a deflationary DEPRESSION not as long as we have printing presses.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:22
mozel (@401K & IRA) ID#153102:
In these accounts are America's private accumulations of federal reserve notes. These are savings accounts. These savings will be mobilized. The usual way for a government to mobilize savings in a debt currency is by inflating. This forces the hoarded or saved funds out from under the mattress, so to speak. But, they can also mobilize the 401K and IRA savings by legislation. They will. They will mobilize them and put them out of your reach at the same time, I think. Because, if they don't, you will get your ands on them and hoard them.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:19
blooper (AG is worried about IN flation.) ID#207145:
And I'm sure he's a worried man these days. Wages guys, wages. A small jump, or bottom in the crb, and we might be gettin a London surprise ourselves.He can only put it off so long. A lower dollar is what I'm calling for. And a higher Yen. It's a no brainer ( lucky for me huh/ )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:17
Gollum (@blooper) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I didn't intend to insult you. I thought you were talking about
something much more dramatic. What you are proposing then is a
mild turnaround in the deflationary trend we have been seeing.

I can see that, but I can also see the possiblities of disaster
unfolding much more quickly and severely than that.

You have a lot of evidence for your side in that for over 60
years or so we have not seen the kind of thing I fear but rather
the more mild turnings as you suggest. Its easy to throw things
out of prportion and see ogres where none exist.

The only evidence we have on our side is that it has happened
before and conditions and events seem much the same as the
conditions preceeding the times it has happened before.

I for one woukd much prefer that you are right. Many of
us are banking on you being right. I am afraid though,
really afraid, that you might not be.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:17
John Disney__A (See if you can find the error ..) ID#24135:
For Blooper ( you are well monikered ) ..
You asked some poor devil ....

Are you so nieve as to thing gold is dead. Gold is
bottoming, but gold needs oil. Joe sixpack has big
money, a new car, and is heading for Disney
World. I know you are not nieve,,, as i enjoy your
posts.

Are you having us on

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:16
RJ (..... Squirrel @ Whispering in among ex-Marines .....) ID#410215:

Squirrel -

There is no such thing as an EX Marine.

Indeedy


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:13
blooper (No place to run, baby, no place to hide,) ID#207145:
I know the tought o INflation sounds foreign, since you all are ignoring seasonality of oil and soon gold. The contagion is hitting at summer driving season this time. This winter we'll have cold weather for a change. 18-19$ per barrel isn't pie in the sky. Hot dry weather, even swarms of locusts in Cal.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:12
Auric (Stilgar) ID#255151:

Would be careful about 401k's, mate. If they start monkeying around with 401k plans, it's a sign the game's up. Should be out of paper and into Gold before that happens. Wouldn't hurt to take possession of some of your money, eh!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:09
RJ (..... APH + JTF .....) ID#410215:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

APH wrote: Remember this is all hypothetical. Someone doing this would have to be willing to go short as well as long, be risk adverse and be willing to be totally margined up and not concerned about commissions since you may have to probe the market several times to find the highs and lows.

This, better than anything else I’ve read, sums up the silver market in these, our more hectic days, yes?

JTF -

So this guy has some numbers. Seems that the starting point is still arbitrary. As a physicist you know many of our models of the universe work very well; provided we start out with friendly values. These models necessitate that certain approximations and estimates must be made. They keep tweaking ‘em, getting more and more accurate, although the whole process has a Ptolemaic aura about it that smells more of fixin’ the holes rather than finding out what’s causing them.

Since one must make approximations or assume initial values; what would prove to prefer one value over another? Sure, some starting points give you a prettier picture, but if the initial value is arbitrary, ultimately it is meaningless outside of the model in which this initial state seems to fit so nicely, yes?

I am not pooh-poohing your guy. I would just like to know how he arrived at the initial numbers and why are his starting numbers preferable over another set of numbers?

OK


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:09
Stilgar (By the way) ID#234201:
Apologies for the spellling errors.

Note - as a consultant, overheard today in an ( US Govt dept ) cube:
Q. what are these computers going to do in the year 2000?
A. Oh their all compliant.
Q. No, I mean the whole network, mainframe you, know...? )
A. The workstations are O.K.

The questioner later stated that all cash is coming out of the bank.
Folks, the tide has turned.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:06
blooper (Gollum,) ID#207145:
Are you so nieve as to thing gold is dead. Gold is bottoming, but gold needs oil. Joe sixpack has big money, a new car, and is heading for Disney World. I know you are not nieve,,, as i enjoy your posts.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:03
Gollum (@sharefin) ID#43349:
Alas, but tis true. And growth stock bugs and high margin bond bugs
and soybean oil bugs and all manner of such. One feels very lonely
in the dispair of having lost their dream, but there are legions.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:02
blooper (GOLLUM, DON'T INSULT ME.) ID#207145:
I DONT EXPECT LARGE MOVES. Oil at 18-19, Gold at 345. I don't
expect large moves. Small moves from these levels would destroy bonds.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 02:00
mozel (@Squirrel @Mirable Dictu: A Liberty Lawyer (Sort of)) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@Squirrel: I am not anti-government. I am anti- bad government. I am for government according to the Constitution and the common law.

My post yesterday morning was not about a group of men in Montana. It was about all freeman in America and about the trial in Montana of some of them.

Freeman is a legal condition, a status.


Lawyer and 'Exorcist' Perform Ritual on Capitol Steps


WASHINGTON — With all the fanfare and shocking drama of a Jerry Springer
show, a man stood on the steps of the Capitol on Monday and pressed a
foot-long silver cross to the sky.

His ankle-length black robe flapping in the stiff breeze and a shiny black briefcase at his feet, the man consulted the oversize leather-bound Bible propped open in his left hand and began what he said were the rituals of an exorcism.


Kee-la-la-la-see-ki, he intoned, or so it sounded to an untrained ear.
Kee-kee-sa-la.

The Capitol police officers who stood nearby smirked.
They had seen it all before. But the Indiana schoolchildren who had
gathered to watch were not indifferent. They stood riveted as the man made the sign of the cross, incanted unintelligible phrases and held up his silver cross to the north and south, east and west.

I'm definitely telling my friends back home it was the weirdest thing I
saw while I was in Washington, shrieked 14-year-old Adrienne Hermance of Logansport, Ind.

The object of her howls was Baron Deacon, a student of Greek Orthodox
theology who said he had been ordained as an exorcist 20 years ago. Born in Spain and now a resident of Boston and Puerto Rico, the man with the black pompadour and pencil mustache said he had come to Washington only at the behest of a Boston attorney, David Grossack, who believes the federal government and courts are beyond broken and in radical need of an overhaul.

I've always tried to avoid coming here, said Deacon, who performed the
exercise with all the solemnity of a funeral. Even yesterday on the trip
when we came here the car almost went over a road. And the thunder and the experience we had last night was only an indication of what is here.

Deacon, who claims to have performed hundreds of exorcism rituals around
the world, said Monday's exercise by itself would not rid Washington and the nation's courts of evil. What I did here today is only one step for what is to come, he said. Satan has a nest where he, so to speak, lays eggs. This is his nest.

Grossack, 42, a resident of Hull, Mass., said he conjured up the stunt to
drum up publicity for his mission to utterly overhaul a federal government and legal system which he says are not working for the American people.

For all practical purposes, the politicians and legal establishment have
sold their souls to the devil, Grossack said as he watched Deacon in action. The government doesn't work for the people.

Grossack, a Republican committeeman, describes himself as a right-wing
radical. The host of a public-access television program about judicial issues and the author of Constitutional Warfare, a manual for people who want to take their complaints to court without a lawyer, he heads a company called Citizens Justice Programs, which conducts training seminars for people who want to bring civil rights lawsuits against public officials.

Grossack said he had concluded that confrontation is the only way to draw
attention to his beliefs that the American people have lost faith in their government and that individuals are unfairly deprived every day of their freedom, their rights, and their property.

There are mini-Wacos taking place every day but there is a lot of apathy, he said. In the 1960s, when people did things that were confrontational, the government took people more seriously.

[Note the government took the lawyering farmers in Montana seriously. ]

Grossack is no stranger to confrontation. In 1996 he turned up at a rally
in Boston for perennial presidential candidate Pat Buchanan. Carrying a sign that read Don't be fooled by Buchanan, he strode through the crowd shouting,
Buchanan is a Nazi! Buchanan is a Nazi!

He once launched a crusade to persuade local government officials in Hull
to remove the mosaic swastika patterns that had decorated the floors of Town Hall since 1927. One day he woke to find the word Jew scratched into his car.

But that was years ago. On Monday, Grossack blended in with a crowd of
tourists and government workers as Deacon performed his ritual. Clad in a gray suit and clutching a black canvas briefcase, he did not draw the notice of Suanne Schwering, a newly retired eighth-grade history teacher from Logansport who stood bewitched by the ceremony.

It wasn't like in the movie The Exorcist, she said. This guy was waving his cape around a lot more.




Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:58
blooper (Bonds, Utilities are doomed.) ID#207145:
That leaves that dog goned, beat up, left for dead yellow and silver metal. I am not a smart market analyst, Just a guy wo likes to make money.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:58
Stilgar (Social Insecurity) ID#234201:
From the bleachers,

What are the odds that the USA's 401 ( k ) deposits will in fact *BE* the new social security - e.g. participants will onyl be allowed to withdraw a government-approved amount per month after 2010? Any avant-guard legal maneuvers in that area.
One might want to purchase an insurance of sorts against this ( what's the probability?... ) type of occurance. Hard assets maybe? You tell me, evaluate and comment please.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:58
Gollum (@blooper) ID#43349:
Well, I hope you are right. I guess you are saying that an
apparent rise in prices will occur because the dollar will
be becoming worth less. Wheras I was thinking of a rise in
prices due to increased demand. That could well be. My next
question is if gold is at $300 and goes to $600 and oil is
at $15 a barrel and goes to $45 and food and neccesities
triple or quadruple in cost, have you gained anything?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:58
aurator (Gulp!) ID#257148:
-
JTF

Here I is. Unlike some TLAs I am unable to post@work, and work I must to support a gold habit.

Nick@Sharefin_most_generous_expatriot_kiwi

Happy Birthday!

Truly clan Laird has accumulated much good fortune.

It is through giving that wealth is fostered down generations. Fortunate indeed are you and yours. Fortunate also are we who receive the bounty of your generosity. I am obliged to you. I raise my glass in a toast to you, Nick! I salute you Sh@refin_the_Generous.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:57
sharefin (Gollum your 1:31) ID#284255:
Sounds like what has happened to a few goldbugs,
Trying to bet their farm on gold bottoming.
Sad but true - I know.



Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:56
Auric (Winston) ID#255151:

Well one thing seems likely. We're either going to have big time inflation or deflation. Kitco is divided on this question.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:55
blooper (Don't watch too much T.V. (CNBC).) ID#207145:
The herd is always wrong at market turns.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:52
blooper (Gollum,) ID#207145:
The CRB will cause inflation. Preacher said last night there was a bullish non confirmation in Oil, boding for a large move in oil soon. Do you think the CRB will keep moving lower ( 114 ) ?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:48
blooper (Gollum, it will come) ID#207145:
FROM LEFT FIELD, because none of you expect it. It should be ovious that gold moves opposite the market. The dollar loses value as funds leave the market. It will take higher intrest rates for a bear market, not lower rates.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:47
snowbird (APH --Your very enlightening post of 6/04/22:10) ID#220325:
Excellent information as usual, appreciated by Kitco folks.Many thanks

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:44
blooper (Inflation, I say Inflation) ID#207145:
will be the surprise of Sep, Oct time frame. I'll buy Gold after the first of July. ( Fed Open Mkt ) . Gold will take off a little later than Oil.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:43
Gollum (@blooper) ID#43349:
Actually I hope you are right. So anyway, this new found demand
that will lead to inflation after the market has tanked and
all the foreign economies are still in disarray will come
from where did you say?

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:40
blooper (El Nino is turning around, sounding inflationary alarms. Hot, dry,) ID#207145:
August coming up. The best of all possible worlds, factored into CRB index. The great surprise will be inflation. Dollar is 30% over valued. Yen about ready to take off. Japan a good buy, US a good sell.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:39
Gollum (@PH in LA) ID#43349:
Social Security Trust Fund? Maybe that's just a new kind of
mutual fund.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:35
blooper (I Hate to say you guys have got it wrong,) ID#207145:
But, inflation, not deflation is our problem. We are on the verge of a CRB index turnaround. Oil has bottomed. Soon gold will too. A bout of wage, oil inflation coming up in the next 4 to 5 months.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:31
Gollum (@EJ) ID#43349:
Copyright © 1998 Gollum/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well it's kind of a long story. Financial chaos in WW I and
just after led to a hyperinflation in Europe particulary
Germany as well as shortages of many things. It also created
increased demand and higher prices over here.

Now back then, the US economy was largely agricultural. We
sold a lot of cotton and other products overseas and the
farmers made a living albeit not much of one.

With the price runup the farmers were suddenly in the money.
With their newfound profits they were motivated to modernize
and expand. They went to the banks and borrowed money to buy
more land ( often the very same land they had been renting ) ,
paint for the barn, new tractor, fix up the house and so forth.

After a year or two prices went back down like they often do
after such inflation booms. Not quite all the way back down
but close enough. Where the farmers had been just been getting
by they now had their former costs plus their mortgages to
service. They started getting in trouble and eventually
forclosures started to increase. A drought and dust bowl days
didn't help any either.

Meanwhile businesses were doing well. Hell, they had just sold
a lot of paint and tractors and lumber and stuff so they had
some cash. Demand had slackened off so investing it in building
more tractors wasn't worth while. They began to dabble in the
stock market. Slowly at first but with ever increasing speed
and on higher margins as prices began to rise. Eventually
came the crash.

The crash did not cause the depression. It was the downturn
in the economy from farming and the manufacturing sectors
which was already underway when the market crashed that led
to the depression. Credit wealth disappeared almost overnight.

Most of the people who got wiped out by the market didn't lose
theirs in 29. Rather it was the people who decided to buy the dip
now that prices had come down to where they could afford them.
People pulled all of their savings out to take advantage of the
great opportunity as the market started back up only to lose
it when the rally failed and the market finally bottomed in 31 or
32 I think.

Today we don't farm so much as export technological things like chips
and computers and manufactured goods like cars and such.
Because of the problems in Asia and Europe demand has slowed
particularly in the manufacturing sectors. People though have
dabbling in the markets pretty succesfully though.....

When the crash comes, watch out for that first bounce.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:10
A.Goose () ID#20137:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
FWN: 135832 GMT


COMEX Estimated Volumes for Today



New York-June 4-FWN--COMEX ESTIMATED VOLUMES

TOTAL ESTIMATED VOLUMES
Gold 16,000
Silver 8,000
H.G. Copper 7,500




New York-June 4-FWN--THE FOLLOWING ARE THE COMEX COPPER
Warehouse stocks:

Copper - high-grade cathodes ( in short tons )
-------------------------------------------------
Delivery
point previous received withdrawn net chg total
-------------------------------------------------------------

Total 80,783 0 1,092 -1,092 79,691



FWN: 143442 GMT


COMEX Silver Warehouse Stocks, Part 2



-- SILVER
-- ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Depository
Net. Adjust- Total
Chg. ment Today

TOTAL REGISTERED
-610,221 0 36,068,255
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
0 0 52,492,526
COMBINED TOTAL
-610,221 0 88,560,781



FWN: 143704 GMT


COMEX Gold Warehouse Stocks



New York-June 4-FWN--THE FOLLOWING ARE THE COMEX GOLD
warehouse stocks:
-- GOLD ( Quoted in Troy Ounce )
Depository
Prev. Received Net. Adjust- Total
Total Withdrawn Chg. ment Today

TOTAL REGISTERED
927,753 0 5,340 -5,340 0 922,413
TOTAL ELIGIBLE
162,926 0 0 0 0 162,926
COMBINED TOTAL
1,090,679 0 5,340 -5,340 0 1,085,339


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 01:01
tolerant1 (Jeil, Namaste' ) ID#373284:
I could not agree more. The hemp line, stylin...

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:58
Jeil (tolerant1, thanks for a government on prepetual coffee break) ID#253228:
Copyright © 1998 Jeil/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Otherwise most of us would be in prision for violating one of their laws.

It is a shame that all that wealth is squandered on inferiority.

When you think about it, just about every government operation is a failure. A 4th grader in a government owned, operated shcool can't read at a 4th grade level;welfare offices are welfare for the welfare office employees; the post office is an overpriced and often anti-customer mess. The criminal court system dispenses something not even close to justice at a pace that makes a turtle look snappy, etc. etc., etc.

And the average American thinks they live in a free society, I guess because they can vote for their masters and can speak freely among friends so long as they do not offend the powers that be. And now poor Gilligan must apologize for taking a simple pleasure booster that is disapproved of by a bunch of corrupt people who themselves belong on the end of a hemp neclace.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:56
tolerant1 (EJ -Namaste' sometimes you have to open full text to get there.) ID#373284:
http://www.miningstocks.com in case it still does not work.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:54
Hedgehog (Where it is at.) ID#39857:
Shoveling dogpoo out of the backgarden is fun. Can we keep doing
this forever. Daddy God pleeeeeeaaaaaaasssseeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:50
EJ (tolerant1: thx for the URL but it doesn't work for some reason) ID#45173:
Thx again and now I really do gotta go to bed. G'Nite.
-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:44
Open-Loop (@tolerant1. DAMMIT HE IS ONE OF MY HERO'S TOO!!) ID#65118:
He would be much better off if he would have killed somebody.
what in the F*** is wrong with this picture? There are people
in Texas prisons doing hard time for a possesion of a joint!
It sure is twisted!!

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:39
PH in LA (Comment overheard today on All Things Considered) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
President Clinton's call for repair of Social Security...plans to privatize the social security retirement system...calls in congress to invest funds from the Social Security Trust Fund in the stock market.

What are they talking about here? What SS Trust Fund? It has been my understanding that for years Social Security Taxes have been going into the general fund and that pensions have been paid from same.

If this is what they have in mind, what can we expect from the DOW? Why stop at 10,000? Do we hear 100,000? Or is that the sound of the total and complete failure of the government when the stock market finally loses its luster? Or will that simply not be allowed to happen?


Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:38
tolerant1 (EJ - actually the oil did not throw me. I have been following a little known stock) ID#373284:
called ERHC. I was introduced to it through J. Taylors newsletter. You can go to http://www.miningstocks.com and click on weekly update he usually has on-going info on it. Namaste'

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:37
EJ (Squirrel & Gollum: Thx for the table, Squirrel. Gollum, I'm not) ID#45173:
sure I follow how the runup in farm prices in 1919-1920 contributed to the crash in 1929. Did prices deflate after 1920?
-EJ

Sort of went to bed already, not really... Zzzzzzz.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:36
Open-Loop (@SQUIRREL ,THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH GUY'S) ID#65118:
I do not doubt for a minute that a preparation is in progress.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:33
downunder__A (Gollum) ID#27341:
Thanks,i hope i am learning, with all the help from Kitco.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:33
tolerant1 (THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOTHING) ID#373284:
Even when there is a war, the people are the ones that win or lose it.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:30
Jeil (Gagnrand) ID#253228:
Time flow through me like a sieve. Whatever I thought back then is long gone. Actually, with respect to the S&P500 I was in a period of dormancy from failure.
What I have now is a result of some fixes in my programs that brought into focus that data series. Don't rely on me as my work is in progress, and I posted it as something of possible interest should it turn out to reflect reality. Maybe I will be more exuberant if the action in late S&P500 trading today is unwound tomorrow or Monday.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:30
EJ (gagnrad & Reify inflation/deflation/stagflation/depreflation) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The seeming beating of the dead inflation vs deflation horse here smokes out all possibilities, no matter how obscure. We do our best to not base our assumptions purely on the past events. At least five circumstances are very different now than in 1929:

- The nation with the world's reserve currency is this time also the world's debtor
- Foreign nations own 43% of that nation's debt
- There is more liquidity in that nation's stock market, but there are derivatives that create nearly immeasurable downside exposure
- Transactions occur instantaneously
- Information moves instantaneously
- After Dec. 31, 1999 transactions and information may stop for awhile

I had the thought the other night that there are so many combinations of variables and so many possible permutations that no one will ever know ahead of time what will happen. That means stay liquid with your ear to the ground and fast on your feet. I'm comfortable now with 50/30/10/10 cash, gold, silver, oil stocks. Oil stocks? Bet that one threw ya.

Ready for the ducking a weaving...

G'Nite...
-EJ

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:28
HighRise (PM Spot Prices) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ASIA/EUROPE
SPOT PRICE
June 05, 1998
00:22AM New York Time

Timezone Equivalents
.
Bid
Ask
Change from New York close
GOLD
292.10
292.60
-1.20
-0.41%
SILVER
5.23
5.28
-0.01
-0.19%
PLATINUM
358.50
360.50
-1.40
-0.39%
PALLADIUM
285.00
295.00
+5.00
+1.79%

HighRise

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:26
Gollum (@downunder) ID#43349:
I don't think so. As a country though, reliance on imports does
put you more at the mercy of external events. Trade embargos for
instance can be devastating.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:25
Jeil (Schippi) ID#253228:
Caught your post and there is no magical math involved. All is the standard currently know type stuff.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:25
tolerant1 (ALRIGHT...THAT'S IT, THE FINAL STRAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ID#373284:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
'Gilligan' busted for pot possession

Copyright © 1998 Nando.net
Copyright © 1998 The Associated Press
PRINCETON, W.Va. ( June 4, 1998 7:32 p.m. EDT http://www.nando.net ) -- Bob Denver, who played the title character on Gilligan's Island, was arrested Thursday after a package of marijuana was delivered to his home.
Denver was charged with marijuana possession and released on $1,000 bond.
He appeared briefly in court for arraignment.
West Virginia authorities were notified earlier this week by Pueblo, Colo., police that a package containing marijuana was sent there by a delivery service and addressed to Denver at his Princeton home, said Lt. Bruce McNeill.
After an officer delivered the package Wednesday night, a drug task force executed a search warrant. Inside Denver's home, police found about 10 grams of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, McNeill said.
In all, police recovered about an ounce and a half of marijuana from the package and Denver's home, he said.
He was very apologetic over the incident and remorseful, McNeill said.
Denver, 63, could face up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine on the misdemeanor.
John Ercul, deputy chief of police in Pueblo, wouldn't say Thursday how investigators there knew what was inside the package.
A man who answered the phone Thursday at Denver's home said Denver had no comment.
Denver moved to West Virginia with his wife, Dreama, seven years ago and they settled in her hometown of Princeton.
Denver starred in Gilligan's Island from 1964 through 1967. He played the beatnik best friend Maynard G. Krebs on The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis from 1959 to 1963.



Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:25
Winston__A (@Auric) ID#244418:
Re: your question, when will y2k breakdowns begin?
Maybe with bank runs in the Spring of 1999.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:23
Gollum (@gagnrad) ID#43349:
Credit was abundant and easily available in the late 20's
also and no one beleived there would ever be hard times again.
When the credit goes away, it happens fast hard and sudden.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:21
downunder__A (Gollum) ID#27341:
having a large hole in my knowledge ( and spellling ) on economics and history, would you say reliance on imports ( neccesities ) plays a part in Hypoinflation.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:14
HighRise (sharefin) ID#401460:

Thanks for that great URL, it will help a lot in the coming months.

Happy Birthday

HighRise

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:14
Squirrel (Whispering in among ex-Marines and other military officers.) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
and the occasional tidbit from the news reinforces
Winston__A's item on Senator Bennett {pre-midnight post}

Yes, folks - the above whisperings are becoming more and more indicative that every military installation in this nation is preparing to deal with major civil disruptions and emergencies in communities within their jurisdiction. These preparations include stockpiling of conventional weapons, food, medical supplies, etc. They also include familiarization of officers for inner-city and urban police actions and combat. Chicago was a recent familiarization ground for Marine officers.

Martial Law! You know Mozel's answer. But his answer applies to cities.
Other plans have been made for rural areas - by rural folk themselves.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:13
Gollum (@Squirrel) ID#43349:
On the retail prices chart you should notice a pretty good runup
in prices in the last few years just before 1920, especially in
farm prices and especially in 1919 or so. That was a
contributing factor to the beginning of the great depression
and the great market crash of 29.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:08
sharefin (Prometheus) ID#284255:
Thanks
I'll take the hugs now
And save the Viagra for when I reach dads age. ( :- ) ) ) )

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:06
JTF (aurator, where are you?) ID#57232:
How about this?

Viagra ...... Niagara

And we have been talking about inflation/deflation.

How about:

deflagration?

inflagration?

That should be enough to get you going on sharefin's birthday.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:04
Gollum (@Reify) ID#43349:
I'm back. I had to suddenly go run a little errand. I did
try to email you this morning, but I have been having trouble
with computers all morning, so I presume my attempt didn't go
well. I'll try again.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:03
Gollum (@Reify) ID#43349:
I'm back. I had to suddenly go run a little errand. I did
try to email you this morning, but I have been having trouble
with computers all morning, so I presume my attempt didn't go
well. I'll try again.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:03
cherokee__A (@..warp.9...mr.sulu....) ID#344308:

last one....for now.

http://www.iinet.net.au/~standeyo/Priority_One_A.html

!; ) ...home.from.the.erectus.dis-respectus'---.home...rock.little.

Date: Fri Jun 05 1998 00:02
Squirrel (EJ- finding tables that measure the same thing from Almanac is tough.to Almanac) ID#287186:
Copyright © 1998 Squirrel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
But here is some info from a 1940 issue ( the city library sold these and other books as surplus 4 pounds for a dollar a few years ago - didn't know what they had! ) Unfortunately my next issue is 1970 {from which I get the last table}

Retail Food Prices Index
Remember the depression was combined with drought but the deflation sunk food prices anyway. Bottomed in 1932-33 and recovered to pre-depression levels probably at the beginning of WWII. Prices were low but many folks couldn't afford even those!
1926...109
1929...105
1930...100
1931...82
1932...68
1933...66
1934...74
1935...81
1936...82
1937...85
1938...79

Cost of Living Index
Bottomed in 1933 and recovered to pre-depression levels probably at the beginning of WWII. This overall index didn't sink as far {103 to 76} as the retail food did ( 109 to 66}.
1926...103
1929...100
1930...97
1931...89
1932...80
1933...76
1934...79
1935...81
1936...82
1937...84
1938...83

Purchasing Power of the Dollar ( from 1970 World Almanac}
Consumer Prices {1957-59 = $1.00}
Notice the rapid inflation during and after WWII.
1940...2.048
1945...1.595
1950...1.194
1955...1.071
1960...0.971
1965...0.910

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