Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:44
APH (--------) ID#254201:
Aurophile - with some luck maybe we can pick off the bottom, similiar to this last run in silver

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:42
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:
So many of these items appear in both the Guns & Butter columns. Or did you think it belonged in cost of the Executive Office.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:35
aurophile (APH) ID#256326:
I'm glad ( I guess! ) to see your cautious opinion on gold at this level which mirrors my own. I can't believe all those overvalued calls are going to make lots of folks rich by June. ( More later also by other channels. )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:35
sam (Mike, aurator) ID#286279:
Mike too!? Well, my birthday is sometime around this time as well. Let's party!

A hearty Happy Birthday to Mike!

aurator: I wasn't looking for anything in particular right now. It's just that that Hong's Kitco search engine periodically gets offered up. Each time I try it, nothing happens.

Gots to go.
Don't take no wooden nickels.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:32
Mr. Mick (Donald, your posting about analysts stating that gold has..........) ID#345321:
improved its value in a portfolio tells me that the big boys already have their positions, and now want the little guys to kick the price higher.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:31
aurophile (6PAK) ID#256326:
It is easier to see in the third world where I live, but the primary drive for the political life is clearly to benefit one's purse and family. To pretend otherwise is to maintain that plastic surgeons are motivated by beauty, or lawyers by justice.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:29
APH (Donald_A) ID#254201:
You misunderstood or I wasn't clear on that post. I don't know if spot gold is going to 314 or not. Next friday if spot closes at 314 or higher it would indicate a turn in the intermediate or long term trend. Short term ( next week ) I think it's going down. The XAU is telling us that right now. What would be real real real bullish is if the XAU stayed above 80 and gold took a dive down to the 280's. I would load the boat if that occured. Will it happen...I don't know. But that's the kind of divergence I saw in 1993 before making a 1700% return in my commodity account ( no options ) .

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:29
Snowball ((@2BR02B) ) ID#234218:
I take it you think my post was too long.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:26
6pak (spoils system @ Boston & new York) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
1902 : Boston authorities indict local politicians James Michael Curley, and his brother Thomas on charges of having taken civil service examinations for job applicants.

1904: James Curley and Thomas Curley are convicted. On the day they begin serving time they are elected to the offices of aldermen and state representative.

New York's Tammany Hall supports the Curley brothers and the public excuses their offense on the ground that they did it for their friends

Everybody is talking about Tammany men growing rich on graft says New York political boss George Washington Plumkitt, 61. but nobody thinks of drawing the distinction between honest graft and dishonest graft. There's an honest graft, and I'm an example of how it works. I would sum up the whole thing by saying ' I seen my opportunities and I took 'em.'
Plunkitt, a long time opponent of civil service reforms. Plunkitt leaves an estate of $500,000 to $1.5 million when he dies in 1924.

FWIW Take care.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:25
tolerant1 (mozel) ID#31868:
Don't forget lip-gloss...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:22
A.Goose () ID#20135:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:16
SDRer__A ( WorldBank bolted to GOLD: defines assets in terms of US dollars of THE WEIGHT & FINENESS
IN 7/1/44 ) ID#288156:
weight + finess + 1944 = GOLD

Okay, let me see if I get what you are driving at. The world ( through the BIS ) has been working business deals and government to government deals based on the gold franc and thus they have held to THE GOLD STANDARD for a LONG LONG time.

This would mean that all the CB to CB sales that we have heard about are NOT sales but rather payments between CB's.

And if I understand many of your recent other posts, businesses and governments, if anything, have been doing more and more of their international trade agreements BASED ON GOLD.

SOOooooo, Comex for sure and LMBE possibly, are in place just to keep the peasants happy and confused ( the peasants are us ) . Gold is valuable beyond our conprehension and so BIS and company keeps that information beyond our comprehension. ( They have done a great job because NO ONE believes gold is a standard of value --- even though the WORLD's international trade seems to be BASED ON GOLD. )

THHHheeen the price of gold that we know is a fallacy. A pretense to distract us folks and make sure that we don't mess up the puddin. The real price of bullion will be found in one of those international contract disputes you have uncovered. Just how many gold franc are turned over to obtain ... or to purchase ...

My question, then comes as to the various rolls of some of the major players., specifically the Europeans and the Asians. It seems to me that the Asian community as a whole has not been fairing very well in this BIS led agenda. Relations seem to be strained to the breaking point and Japan ( for one ) seems to be going against all western recommendations. Are they ( Europe and Asia ) organizing against the usdollar? Or are they independently working against the dollar? And most importantly are they going to support independent gold based currencies or go for the gold franc?

By the way, GREAT WORK.

Happy birthday kitco, aurator, and Season Greetings to all.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:22
mozel (@Urban Myths About Government Outlays) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Law enforcement and general government ( courts, prisons, cost of Office of the Executive, Congress ) 2%
National Defense, veterans, and foreign affairs 22%
Interest on the debt 14%
Physical, human, & community development 9%
Social Programs 18%
Social security, Medicare and government employee retirement 35%

From Fiscal Year 1994 Total outlays that year $1,461 billion from revenues plus $203 billion of borrowed greenbacks

Perhaps some one can post this information from FY 1997.

Of course, the liabilities of the government are not reflected in these categories. They represent an official self-serving view propagated by government itself. But, the cost of empire is high. Arms, uniforms, shoes, food, transport, shelter, equipment, medical care, salaries, pensions... 22% plus arguably 14%. And the cost of social engineering is high 27% plus arguably another 35%. Guns & Butter.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:17
aurator (the sun does not rise, the earth spins) ID#250121:
April 10, it is still that date where kitco is, but here it April 11 15:20. Gives me a headache thinking about it, but still got lots champagne and birthday cake, so we can keep on partying

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:16
aurophile (Hi Arden too!) ID#256326:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:15
aurophile (i cotton to gold) ID#256326:
Copyright © 1998 aurophile/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I wrote a piece on cotton a while back and just updated it. Both the original piece and the update are available at my cheapo site:

This would be of interest--if at all- primarily to Gann, commodity, and astro folk.

My take on gold is that its chart looks ominously like that of the US 30 year bond yield. The options are dangerously overvalued and suggesting a lower price, but being a goldbug of long-standing, I am naturally long...;- ) ) ) )

Hi MIke! Hi Aurator!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:14
aurator (The Hairdresser Index - ANOTHER wierd index for SDR-er) ID#250121:

Thank you for being so patient! With the help of sharefin's charts I now understand your thesis re inflation adjusted spike down in gold. Certainly POG in NZ$ has been rising for past 3 months. I was astonished when my hairdresser mentioned that one of his clients had bought and sold gold in past 3 weeks.

let us watch with interest these next few trading sessions.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:13
Cmax (Cmax = ID#339320:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:12
arden (birthdate?) ID#201238:
So, Aurator, if you look where you are upon the globe, your birthday is one date, but it seems to me that you have the choice of looking forward or backward to establish the date. Any way, from this side of the globe, happy birthday! ( Now am I one day ore two days late? )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:11
Cmax (To ANOTHER) ID#339320:

The world has always been littered of stones on life's trail...........
please don't let but a few vociferous ones deter you.
You have a following far greater than you imagine,
and have enriched the thoughts of many.
I thank you, and hope to see your posts this weekend

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 23:09
2BR02B? (@snowball) ID#266105:

On subject of conformity and national pastimes--

Average length of post that seems somehow appropriate
and ubiquitously achieved in this new medium--
reminiscent of the average 7-second camera angle.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:54
aurator () ID#250121:
yes my birthday, do I share it with Alan Greenspan as well as kitco? That explains a lot! Wierd that one's birthday can last so long, as the world spins.

Does the search engine not work? Perhaps you could e-mail Hong. If there's anything you'd like me to try to find, it helps if you know either the day/time of the post or if there are unusual words in it. I have 40,000 pages + of goldbuggery archived on my Mac, and can usually find stuff, but the noise level gets very high with common words


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:41
arden (Mike - Happy Birthday one day late and) ID#201238:
Happy Birthday to Kitco. I did not make the first day but I have been here since then.

One mans speculation is another's sure thing. It is all dependant upon your viewpoint. Some may think that if you buy 130 million oz of silver that it is risky, others may think that it is a sure thing. Risk is only on the eyes of the person who places the money down. No more, no less.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:38
Snowball (@ Mike Sheller ) ID#234218:
I was also struck by the overtones of mind manipulation upon the masses. To the point of conformity for unknown reasons. Even when it's against your own needs and logic.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:29
Mike Sheller (Snowball) ID#347447:
As I peel and eat a banana, I am struck by your amusing story. The apes are dejected goldbugs and recently converted mutual fund buyers. The cold water is central bank selling. The way it has always been is the thought that $340 or $370 gold is a good profit...should I buy it now? And by 2005, Gold in the thousands of dollars will make monkeys out of many.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:24
Mike Sheller (Rob Noel, Retired Soldier) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
At ease, both of you. This thing about gold as insurance, not investment comes up every now and then. A look at a price chart will disclose that gold ( and silver ) , like anything else tradeable on exchange markets, is a simply wonderful and appropriate investment at the RIGHT TIME. Just as IBM was a wonderful investment at $44 when the world saw it as a dinosaur just a few years ago, just as Republic Waste Industries was at $3 just before Pluto came by to conjunct its corporate horoscope Sun and Wayne Huizenga bought in and created Auto Nation out of it, sending it to $40, just as Rowan Companies was at $7 when oil was in the pits in '95 and the stock came out of a Rhino price formation on the upside. Whether you use funnymentals, contrarian psychology, value vision, astrology, technical analysis, or good old down to earth good sense and marvelous acumen like LGB, it matters not. ANYTHING can be an INVESTMENT ( or, more properly, a SPECULATION ) if and when the price and conditions are right. Speculating is what Kitco is all about. Hence all the fine minds here. Gold is as much an investment now as it was in '72. Buying gold for investment NOW means not worrying whether you should sell it at $340, or $370. Those who buy it now and sell it at $400, or $525 will kick themselves months later. This is the next BIG ONE, folks. This IS investment time. An Investment in gold and gold shares NOW is your best insurance for a spectacular profit within several years. I will admit that when I bought silver at $5.40ish in 1976 it was out of a desire to provide some insurance for my family. Boy was I wrong. I hope I am so wrong again! THAT was an investment!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:21
Snowball ((@ All) A little levity, should anyone be so inclined.) ID#234218:
Copyright © 1998 Snowball/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just received this today and thought it was somewhat befitting. ( maybe, maybe not )

In the following scenerio, think of the banana as gold,
and the apes as investors, then think of governments
and CBs spraying water, see if it sounds familiar

Start with a cage containing five apes. In the cage, hang
a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, an
ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the
Banana, but as soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of
the apes with cold water. After a while, another ape makes
an attempt with the same result all the apes are sprayed
with cold water.

Turn off the cold water. If, later, another ape tries to climb
the stairs, the other apes will try to prevent it even though no
water sprays them.

Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace it with a
new one. The New ape sees the banana and wants to climb
the stairs. To his horror, all of the other apes attack him.
After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to
climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace
it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is
attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment
with enthusiasm.

Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new
one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the
four apes that beat him have no idea why they were not
permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in
the beating of the newest ape.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes
which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced.

Nevertheless, no ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not?

Because that's the way it's always been around here.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:21
6pak (USofA President Garfield's death @ Civil Service Commission) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
January 16, 1883: The Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act passed by USofA Congress. Provides for competitive examinations for positions in the federal government and establishes a Civil Service Commission to end the abuses that culminated in the assassination of President Garfield
... ( 1881 Garfield mortally wounded July 02 by disappointed office seeker Charles J. Guiteau who shoots the president at Washington D.C., railway station. When Garfield dies September 19 at Elberon N.J., at age 49, he is succeeded by his vice president Chester Alan Arthur 50, who abandons his support of the spoils system and follows Garfields policy of avoiding party favoritism in his appointments. ) ....

The Act sharply reduces the number of federal appointees who get their jobs from elected officials under the spoils system it establishes a merit system for appointment and promotion based on competitive examinations, and the number of classified civil service workers employed on the basis of merit will be expanded by Congress, with such workers protected from loss of job through change in political administration.

1881: Russia's Aleksandr II is assassinated March 13 at St. Petersburg at age 62. A bomb tears off his legs, rips open his belly, and mutilates his face in an act organized and carried out by Sophia Perovskaya who heads a band of Nihilist terrorists of a populist fringe group. The assassination precipitates a wave of repressions and persecutions.

1881: The U.S. federal income tax law of 1861, was unconstitutional, the Supreme Court rules.

FWIW. Take Care

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:21
SDRer__A (Politicians will have their FIATS Banks and Business Peg to GOLD.... ) ID#288156:
Bye All. Be well.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:18
SDRer__A (International Treaties Tie to GOLD: CA (SOR/83-79):) ID#288156:
“regulations respecting conversion of values expressed in gold frances into Canadian dollar equivalents.”

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:16
SDRer__A (WorldBank bolted to GOLD: defines assets in terms of US dollars of THE WEIGHT & FINENESS IN 7/1/44 ) ID#288156:
“weight” + “finess” + ”1944” = GOLD

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:15
Snowball ((@ Sharefin) Re: your 00:15 post) ID#234218:
Just had a chance to review the day. I wanted to tell you that your post was most profound and most excellent! I will keep it and read often.

Thank you

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:12
SDRer__A (Global Business Pegs to GOLD, for example, “FCC Accounting Rates for US, UK, NZ”) ID#288156:
A gold franc has a fixed factor for converting it to SDR ( 1SDR=3.061 GF ) .”

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 22:00
Spock (I agree with LGB but..........) ID#210114:
LGB is right when he point out the blind faith of 'goldbugs' on this line. I would however disagree with him on the concept of gold as insurnace.

Asia has shown the value in holding some of your assets in gold.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:58
Spock (Rudeness and civility) ID#210114:
I have commented in the past about the needless rudeness on this chat line. If you disagree with someone, fine, just be polite about it

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:57
Spock (LGB and Freedom of Speech) ID#210114:
Don't ban or boycott LGB just becuase he disagrees with you. Freedom of speech is paramount.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:56
Spock (3 cubed and Bubble) ID#210114:
Yes, a good article. It goes to show that the world's financial problems are not the result of socialism as advocated by many on this line, but by ferral capitalism.

There need to be some rules.

Live Long and Prosper.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:55
Jack () ID#252127:

One of the anti-gold establishments lines against gold convertability and currency backing is that a nations productive assets are far in excess of the value of gold as the backing for a currency.
In such an evaluation; the debts of governments, industries and the public are never factored into the thinking.
With present price to book values on Wall Street being so high, it seems that either a miraculous earnings era is being planned -this to perk up the value of plant- or a rather sharp fall in the markets awaits us. If the markets fall, the government tax on capital gains will go with them.
My thinking is that they will hold up the market as best as possible and that gold will seek much higher prices.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:53
sharefin (Email chatter) ID#284255:
XAU Update. The Xau continues it's corrective mode and is resting on the middle trend line of the gold forecaster chart. I would expect the XAU to continue to trend down to the bottom rising bb band at around 80-82 and that will be critical support. Although I think Prechter is wrong on Gold, I would change that idea if XAU broke 77.
If my thesis is correct, we have just hit an oversold bottom on the McOscillator and started a 5th wave of wave 5 advance to a significant market peak
My target is Dow 10,000 area within 2-4 weeks. If I am right we should see a panic buying phase in big caps and small caps, much the way we have seen in Yahoo in the last 4 weeks.
If my thesis is correct I would expect XAU to come alive again when we near the peak ( at around 80 xau ) .
I work mainly with the XAU Index ( The Philadelphia Gold and Silver Index ) for analysis. The 10 weeks cycle for the XAU will be ending next Tuesday. It then will go into is 5 weeks up part of the 10 weeks cycle. The 38 and 114 weeks cycles are already moving towards their tops. Should reach their tops about the end of May. Once we get all three line up after Tues all going in the same direction, I'm expecting ( hoping ) for fireworks on the upside. For information and viewing of the various charts, please see Y.Auger's XAU with EW site.
( I'm not an EW'er- elliot waver ) . on weekly roundup remarks... and then scroll down to see options on various charts. The 10 weeks cycle chart is accessible at the Daily Chart page. Hope this is informative and helpful.
Seems the Y2K bug is nibbling at the greens already.
Article from the London Sunday times states Co.s are getting hit, like
computers won't recieve goods with an expire date of 2000 or better. ...
Go to contents, scroll down to Firms already struck by millennium bug and open it. Looks like Y2K and gold will be the only show in town in about 6-8 mo.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:45
chas (Donald re XAU) ID#342282:
I can go along with your XAU strategy. Just wondering if the APH and PJL info gives any complement. Thanx

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:44
Niner (@ Charles Keeling) ID#388434:
Copyright © 1998 Niner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree with much of what you have to say about the spending habits of our government, but I think you have overlooked the largest source of despair therein . . .

When we were fat and leading the world in both technological achievement and manufacturing prowess, the ( i.e. ) postwar Japanese government provided huge sums of money for research and development to their private business sector. This ultimately resulted in ( first ) their takeover of our entire electronics industry. Ampex, a U.S. company, for example, sold the rights to the ( then undeveloped ) magnetic video recording patents to the Japanese, and Beta and VHS were the result.

Before the development of a plethora of new third world countries who are now doing in kind, Japan started to usurp the manufacture of many of our staple products. It's interesting to note that Japan now manufactures in new third world surging nations, much as we perceived Japan earlier in the cycle. Plus, those third world countries are now designing and introducing their own products without Japanese intervention. They actually are now, the new Japanese.

If we examine where products sold in this country were designed and manufactured, we'd find that most of our consumption is of out-of-country origins. Try to find a Microwave Oven, TV, Dolby Surround Stereo, Computer, Iron, Vise, Picture Frame, Spoon, Spatula, Calculator, Printer, Copier, Telephone, Pen, Mechanical Pencil, Clock, Vertical or Horizonal Blinds, Ceramic Floor Tile, or Digital Camera ( etc. ) that was manufactured in this country. If you do succeed in finding one, it will probably be overpriced and inferior to the overseas competition.

Back in the 60's-80's Our government invested heavily in technology, directly funding primary research in many developing arenas. Moneys spent in aerospace, semiconductors, high energy physics, in fact ALL mechanical, physical, and electronic pursuits, benefitted all of mankind, as well as our country's economic development. These investments were in the form of defense and research spending, which employed and inspired 100's of thousands, perhaps millions of U.S. citizens. We truly achieved success as a nation, and virtually all workers enjoyed the good life.

Today we remove the technical positions and replace them with service jobs. We no longer heavily fund technology and development, we fund social programs that essentially find work for out-of-work aerospace engineers. Anyone can become a lawn service, but it's extremely difficult to become an aerospace engineer. The short sighted will proclaim, I need lawn service more than I need tragectory calculations for a trip to Mars, but the decline in our technological leadership position will ultimately result in the ( rather large ) failure of our country, starting with our economy.

Phoenix, AZ had the distinction of becoming our country's first Service Economy, where the majority of workers were simply providing a service for the retired residents. This consisted of lawn mowing, roof repair, etc. My question would be, Where does the money continue to come from, after these dependant folks have died? The plan and their resultant local economy is doomed to failure. Our national economy is very similar to that of Phoenix Arizona - - After all, how many of us will be able to afford imported products when we're working at Walmart, shuffling stock in the warehouse? Our government has replaced quality jobs with crap jobs, and then gloats over their achievements. When the money from previous generation's money being spent toward service jobs is gone, I could almost bet that their money has been spent on sustenance of the service people, and won't be available for recycling again. The economy must collapse at this point. We end up sending most of our money out of the country, and recycle what's left amongst the service industry. This cannot work very long . . .


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:25
clone (Preacher... you mentioned a couple days ago...) ID#267344:
that the Au spot could significantly drop by the end of the week. How does the fact that it maintained its strength affect the price forecasts for next week? If it still looks bad, I don't want to know! - c

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:23
sharefin (Y2K archives good articles) ID#284255:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:20
Jack (Erle) ID#252127:

Maybe the amount of physical gold that $8 billion would buy in one gulp is just not available without sending the price vertical.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:19
sharefin (Spot prices?) ID#284255:
The bet goes on?


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:13
Donald__A (Pakistan tests 1,000 mile missle. India says it's ready for anything. Blames China.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:07
Donald__A (ING Baring winds down London derivative business. Executives quit. No comments.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 21:02
Donald__A (Russian rouble derivatives are hot!) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:58
sam (aurator) ID#286279:
Happy Birthday! If indeed it was yours too.

BTW what's the trick to making this thing work?


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:57
Donald__A (@Earle) ID#26793:
At least we can hope that the folks that sold the yen for dollars used the proceeds to buy gold. Everything connects to everything.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:54
Donald__A (He says small investors should follow Warren Buffett into oil and silver.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:47
ERLE (@Donald) ID#190411:
So, we don't know who they bought the yen from.
They bought them from the holders that have less faith than the next sucker.
The pity is that the ordinary Japanese, the greatest savers of capital in the world are to bear the brunt of the devaluation of their fiat currency by giving to the Soros types.
Say, Donald, would you have even passing interest in KITCO if there was a true gold standard?The good government types that decry Soros and the currency traders, if, they were honest, would return to sound money.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:42
223 (Open Loop some feedback for your father) ID#26669:
Copyright © 1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I wish that my father had lived to collect his social security. As it was he died fully believing in the system after pinching the pennies he had left over from taxes his entire life. He thought only fools bought gold and may have been right. IMHO

Here is the WGC website, which has an archive of portfolio letters. Several are pertinant to your discussion. There is enough information available that you won't sound like a total dolt when you talk to your father about gold. The WGC thesis is that in the universe of likely investment scenerios gold is able to decrease portfolio volatility. ( I spent the effort some time back crunching the numbers for various portfolios on a spreadsheet until I was convinced this thesis had enough merit for me to buy gold, but would suggest anyone who would invest in gold should look up their own data and do their own calculations. ) IMHO

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:40
Donald__A (Astounding rebound in gold; price could go to $370) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:29
Donald__A (@Sharefin) ID#26793:
Thanks for the XAU/Spot chart. Did you notice the completed 1994-1996 cycle? The 1996 cycle in progress?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:29
ERLE (anyone) ID#190411:
Am I just a rube, or is there anything to my question about Yen buying by Japan?
The amount that the Japanese CB spent doing a short term support of their currency is an absolute pittance compared to their foreign currency holdings. Why wouldn't they buy gold with their unwanted USD? Perhaps, gold doesn't mean anything to them, and it is THE NEW PARADIGM.
As Ted says. Boy, am I stoopid?.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:21
Donald__A (@Earle) ID#26793:
Japan bought yen with dollars, but from whom? Where are the dollars now? Back in the US? Pumping up the monetary base? Who will get nervous when thosse numbers are released? The bond market? Lots of questions remain unanswered.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:12
Donald__A (Fears over Japan renews interest in gold) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:07
ERLE (@Speed) ID#190411:
Good source for Harmony and many other SA companies. Check his earlier posting of site.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 20:04
IDT (I agree Retired Soldier) ID#228128:
Copyright © 1998 IDT/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There are fewer federal employees on a per capita basis now then in 1964. Federal employees salaries and benefits account for less than 5% of the national budget. It is entitlements and pork barrel spending aided by throngs of lawyers and the medical establishment that have gotten us into the mess that we are in. LBJ got the ball rolling with his anti poverty programs of the 60s. I also agree with Charles that federal agencies are the most wasteful and inefficient operations in the country. With no profit motive to provide direction, agencies become monolithic with the main priority of grabbing more authority/power/tax dollars as the number one objective.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:57
ERLE (@Donald --Yen Buying) ID#190411:
Copyright © 1998 ERLE/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So the Japanese have enriched the currency traders. Your posted link said about $7-9 billion. Let's take 8 billion dollars fed notes.
8,000,000,000/312.00per oz=25,641,025 oz Au.
If I was serious about supporting my currency, the above is what I would have done.
If they are at all serious about Tri-polar currency, this would have been a real shot across the bow. One currency action such as this could have long lasting effects. At the least, I would have threatened in a subdued statement; instead of the manner that it was done. Twenty-five million ounces makes the Belgian, Australian, Argentine sales pale, even together. I am a real novice at this. Most of what I learn come from the likes of you gentlemen, and ladies.
Also, in this humorless part of the country, Ted brings some mirth.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:55
sharefin (Charts) ID#284255:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:44
RETIRED SOLDIER (@ Rob Noel,Open Loop, Charles Keeling) ID#347235:
Rob,Open Loop, thanks for confirming what I already thought but wasnt sure, both of us, my friend and I can fortunatley afford to wait the long haul.
Charles, it is Not the number of Gov employees dragging this country down, it is the MILLIONS of people on welfare and that wont work that most of our tax dollars support as well as everyone in jail that cost over $ 100,000 a year to keep warehoused so they cannot harm the nation any further.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:44
EJ (Thx to Donald and random notes) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Consistent posting of news from reliable sources, such as CNBC and Yahoo!, reveals worldwide deflationary pressure, as expected at the peak of a debt cycle. Thanks for your diligence.

True Story: Bond traders at First Boston have a life-sized cardboard image of Clinton with a cartoon bubble eminating from his mouth saying, So you mean my job depends on Greenspan and a bunch of bond traders on Wall Street?

True Story: Wall Street investment house RBL gives bond traders 15 minutes March 6 every year, allowing traders a few minutes off to celebrate on only this one day out of a near 24 hour work day every day the markets are open.

It's Greenspan's birthday.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:44
Donald__A (@Aurator) ID#26793:
The point that I was trying to make before about the Dow/Gold spike is that in 38 trading days we had an increase equal to 19% of the previous 108 years. That is the extent of my D/G database. That would qualify as a spike if the downtrend since March 20th continues. If it does not immediately continue it must certainly qualify as a blowoff period, don't you think? It is only showing up in the D/G Ratio which makes it more valid in my opinion as the other indices are garbled by inflation.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:34
Donald__A (Wholesale prices down for 5th month in a row it goes against everything we have been taught) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:31
aurator () ID#257148:
And I thank you for the rare coinage of your golden words.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:31
STUDIO.R (@Teddo......) ID#288369:
See if you think this could be him ( I can't get it to post ) check your mail...let me know. studio.cia

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:23
Donald__A (Up to 28 million Europeans working under the table and off the books. ) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:18
Tortfeasor (Almost April 15-A semi joke) ID#371247:
Copyright © 1998 Tortfeasor/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I'm coming up for air after preparing income tax returns for one-half of the population of greater Albuquerque. I am developing faith in this bull market ( for gold that is ) and must wonder who is going to get hurt and how badly when the paper market caves in. The house of cards continues to add mostly jokers and few aces. In the spirit of tax time I post the following in honor of our friends at the IRS.

A new arrival, about to enter hospital, saw two white coated doctors
searching through the flower beds. Excuse me, he said, have you
lost something?

No, replied one of the doctors. We're doing a heart transplant for
an IRS agent and want to find a suitable stone.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:18
robnoel__A (LGB...Everyone has different %...I for one have a higher % than most folks) ID#411112:
Copyright © 1998 robnoel__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
reason is that I do not require my investment to supplement my income,as with folks on fixed income,in there case I usually recommend 10 to 15%...there is no hard fast rule it comes down to what you are comfortable with.....which is why I smile at folks trying to pick bottoms...never happens..find a level you feel is fair value,buy it dig a hole in the back yard bury it....and pray you never have to dig it up.......less than 2% of Americans own gold,as I said I do not view gold as a investment,I let silver and plat do will double your money faster with silver than gold,also bear in mind I am speaking of gold in hand not far as past performance goes thats history,it's tomorrow that I'am afraid of

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:17
STUDIO.R (@Possible picture of ANOTHER.......) ID#288369: Sticks and stones....but words can really bite you.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:14
Donald__A (UK production down 0.6% in last Quarter. Manufacturers demand help.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:05
kitkat (@aurator - Thanks) ID#218383:
I thank you sir. It's good to see that you haven't left the site. I found your post of a few weeks ago extremely moving. Your contributions ARE appreciated.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:05
Psilver Psyched (re: ANOTHER) ID#216217:
Copyright © 1998 Psilver Psyched/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since we may have ended ANOTHER era ( pun intended ) , I wish to share a few additional points which I did not place into this forum earlier as I did not wish to find myself in LGB's present situation. ( See my 12:23 )

ANOTHER clearly established that the handle was not only of an individual but rather a group. Many times the discussion of motive echoed through the forum. I saw no instance when this was done under the boundary condition that ANOTHER was a consortium. Within my mind, the breakout of potential motives is quite different than for an individual. Think about it, yes?

Re: gold for oil. The KITCO community is very international. For many here is a natural closeness between the government and the oil business. In the USA, this is simply not the case - oil is purchased by private companies and sold by private companies. Is there any connection whatsoever between gold in the hands of AG, the CB or Uncle Sam and the purchase agreement of __________ ( fill in your favorite US oil corporation here ) and some oil producer in the Middle East. Let's face it, if gold was paid by private US companies to purchase oil, they would have to buy it on the open market. The US corporation would have no better leverage or advantage than any other worldwide corporate entity. Anyone find any evidence of this of corporate gold purchases in mass ( other than perhaps LBMA trading volume ) ? ANOTHER implied there would be global inequities in the oil purchase price when oil bid for gold. We should believe US oil would be supplied advantageously because the US government had gold! Also, these public US companies have financial disclosure regulations. In which 10-K has anyone found the gold trading accounts of these companies. If ________ had one, it would have to disclose gold holdings and the accounting valuations of such in the annual financial statements. Or is every oil corporation also part of the conspiracy with our government and / or the CB? Remember we keep secrets so very well in the ‘ole US of A, just ask Monica.

I found ANOTHER thoughts on the gold market stimulating. I truly believe he does have a special vantage point into areas of the gold market which are publicly inaccessible. For this, I thank them for their thoughts.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:03
DEJ (Who cares about Feb. numbers? Ancient history.) ID#269191:
LGB if you look at the forward looking indicators like orders, the
economy is showing signs of weakening. As the trade deficit soars,
the trend will become more pronounced. I believe the March employment
report which was just released was weak.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:02
I have also read something like that and think its close to the
truth. My father tells me to believe in the system. Him and I
butt heads all the time about the current state of affairs.
Of course he has got over 10x more than he ever put in, in his life
and makes more retired than he ever did working.
He also say's only fools buy gold.... Boy am I a FOOL!!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 19:00
JTF (Good to see everything in Harmony again!) ID#57232:
G'Nite all -- Finally able to leave work after final crisis of the day, ( I think ) . Looking to the day when my investments will give me an option to this crazy job.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:55
Charles Keeling (@ LGB RE: PLAY now PAY later) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I think during war time we are justified
in running a deficit. Once the war is over,
and we have survived, this deficit should be

Our Government is out of control. They throw
away billions without proper input from the
people who pay the taxes that runs the
Government machine.

Most major S & P 500 companies have had RIF'S
and re-organizations. There have been
countless mergers and aquuisitions that have
streamlined business and optimized profits.

Our Government has never been re-organized.
We have way too much Government, and the
bigger it gets the more inefficient it
becomes. IBM knows that. So does GM and most
other big firms.

I agree with you that all the spending by
government does, of course, stimulate the
economy. It is something that needs to be
done on occasion to jump start our economy
when it appears to be stalled.

However, it appears to me that the deficits
that we are running now ( for the past 12 years )
are not necessary.

WJC took a Safari just recently and took with
him over 100 people and an armored limo. The
cost was reported to be over 1 million dollars
a day. This was a get out of town trip.
It was far too hot in the kitchen so Hillary,
the real President, decided to take the spotlight
off of the zippergate mess. Who approved
this trip?

We have overlaping layers of Government. The
Federal Government has spread out in offices
all across the Country. Then we have State,
County, City, and others Cities within a City.
None of it has been re-organized since the
horse and buggy days. It is big and cumbersome
and inefficient. Redundancy prevails.

In the past I installed computers in Federal,
County and City offices. When you design a
system and write programs for a place of
business you learn a lot about what goes on.

I found that very little logic exists in
Government run agencies. They perpetuate
themselves and grow like a cancer. At the end
of every budget cycle they get very busy
spending all of the funds that were authorized
for the year so that they can request 20%
more for the following year. Most of the money
spent at year end is totally thrown away on
items that are not needed. This goes on in
every Government Agency.

My fear is this: People who work for the
Government in one way or another are making
up a growing segment of our society. Sooner
than we think, they will be able to perpetuate
themselves. That is what happened in Russia.

If you lived in Russia and were a member of
the Communist Party you could have a car, house,
good paying job, and shop in special State
owned markets where the food/clothes etc were
abundant. Otherwise, you had very little.
They were top heavy with Government workers
who did nothing for the economy; i.e. no
product of any kind was produced. Yet they
were consumers. This system failed.

Strange that we are on that path and now Russia
has seen the error of this type system.

I think Government should be a pay as you go
business with a budget that is met just like
a business except in rare circumstances. If
more money is really needed, taxes should be
raised. The Politician should be forced to
look the citizens in the eye and say we need
to raise taxes so our Pervert In Chief can
duck out of the Country and avoid the Press.

If money is to be spent to simply make the
wheels of the economy grind a little bit
faster, it should be directed anywhere except
into bigger Government.

If you knew the waste, fraud and abuse involved
in Government you would be astounded. Some
Government workers have worked for years with
out knowing what duties that they were supposed
to perform. This kind of thing comes to the
your attention when you are designing a system to
be put into a Government office.

The interest on our debt is a back breaker,
and it continues to grow every year. The EURO
will have no debt, and our dollars will come
home to roost just as soon as it gets cranked
up and running properly. Sure we will have
lots of dollars but they will only be worth
ten cent each. In other words INFLATION.

Just ask Argentina about debt and INFLATION.
You could also ask Peru, Venzuela, Russia,
Colombia, and several other countries.

I sense that the Politicians know that it is
already too late. The horse is out of the

We need a Boston Tea Party real quick and that
is why they plan to take away our guns.

Point me to any Government office and I can
prove to you that they can do the job that
they are doing with 50% of the funding that
they receive. In many cases they can be
done away with in their entirety.

In other words: Our National debt of 5.5
trillion represents the amount of money that
has been wasted this past 18-20 years.

AND we pay interest on this bad debt.

More Government=Less Freedom

I really don't waant my children to have to
grow up facing the problems that we have left
for them by playing now and asking them to
pay for it later.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:55
aurator (meoow--) ID#257148:

what ru looking 4? Perhaps I could help ( got a pretty good memory )


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:54
LGB (@ Donald........All deficit spending is not created equal) ID#269409:
Sex is only dirty when it's done right...

Deficit spending is only wonderful when it's done right...

Me elders ( Who are Republicans ) tell me they would have starved without the policies of Roosevelt, whom they laud. Conversely, they despise the New Deal policies of Johnson.....which are really the culprit for the runaway deficit spending of the past 3 decades. I tend to agree on both counts.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:53
Donald__A (Chicago FRB Industry Index falls again.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:53
Prometheus (@kitkat) ID#210235:
I'm sorry, but I don't have the URL for the page in my bookmarkts. It's usual not to answer a reference question with a no. You could get 50 no's at once, you see. Instead we only answer if we can find it. It was posted just a few days back, some time with your control F function for search might do it for you.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:52
ALBERICH__A (Speaking of Social Security...) ID#254112:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved an article I read several months ago a wild theory about the federal debt being truly $17 trillion + $5.5 trillion = $22.5 trillion.

The summary of this article was like this:
The total revenue of Social Security is used to purchase T-bill and T-bonds. Until now $17 trillion dollars. The institution Social Security shows these T-bills/bonds as assets. The proceeds of the sold T-bills/bonds are spent by the govenrment. But as they are also assets ( i.e., the government institution called Social Security holds the treasury depts as assets ) they are balanced against this portion of debts and therefore do not show up in the official number of federal debts, which is therefore only $5.5 trillion.

Do you follow this magic?
If anybody knows more about this type of magic, please let me know.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:49
LGB (@ RObnoel) ID#269409:
If Gold is a form of insurance, what percentage of a typical portfolio do you believe ought to reside there?

Also, do we agree that the premiums on this insurance, the past 2 decades or so, have been extraordinarily high, considering the meager re-imbursements on claims?

Personally, I'm moving from NO Gold to an eventual goal of 20% Gold/Silver/Platinum long term, ( a lot higher percentage short term on the Silver, and Platinum, but as a 1 - 2 yr. hold )

Curious as to your recommended breakdown

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:49
Ted (Aurator..........* Go $@#%^&*) ID#330175:
as YOU know I don't eat egg......but 'Electric Puha' is ANOTHER story,huh----away ta search fer me head~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:48
Donald__A (@KitKat) ID#26793:
I don't know. The gold coins did have an impact.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:45
kitkat (Search Engine) ID#218383:
Kitkat softly crosses the room and mounts the podium. ( Down you raunchy Capers, there will be no sex tonight! ) He quietly, politely, clears his

throat and speaks...

Is there a Kitco search engine for this Newsgroup?

The crowd babbles on. Perhaps they are deaf?

The crowd doesn't respond. Perhaps they are dumb?

He throws gold coins at their feet.

Alas, they are blinded by their greed and do not see the coins nor each other.

Kitcat glumbly dismounts the podium and follows the footsteps of another.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:42
Copyright © 1998 Open-Loop/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In for the long hual has a different meaning to me with gold than it
does with stocks. I do the same thing every month with the extra $ we
have leftover ( usually enough for 2 eagles ) We started this a few years
ago and REALLY snatched some up below 300! At first my wife was not
comfy with this. Now she has done a 180 and cheers me on to buy more.
( she never even reads this forum ) If your friend does not need the mony
I would advise to just put them away I am 40 and there will be no social
security for us. I doubt I'll even see the half million in my 401k.
IMHO Take Care

not speaking for my employer...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:42
LGB (US Personal incomes make STRONG rise...Unemployment, new lows) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
American's personal incomes rose a STRONG .6 percent in February, for second consecutive month. The gain would be an anuallized equivelent of 7.14 TRILLION dollars. An annualized income gain that is higher than the total current federal debt.

Unemployment meanwhile, has now hit a 24 YEAR low of 4.6%....

Disposible personal income gain of .6% following a January gain of .8% also led to an increase in the PERSONAL SAVINGS RATE, which crept up from 4.2% in January, to 4.3% in February.

Yes yes ...I know, these are all just phony numbers put out by the same folks who keep covering up the ROSWELL UFO landing. Nevertheless, it helps us non thinking sheep, sleep a little better at night as we look at the short and intermediate prospects for the economy.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:40
robnoel__A (Retired Soldier,I think you answered your own question,gold is insurance,don't treat it like an ) ID#411112:


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:39
sam (aurator) ID#286234:
O.k. :- )

Have a wonderful Easter weekend.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:35
LGB (Japans savings....coming Boon to stocks?) ID#269409:
Japanese savings, fully one third of the wrold's savings at 10 trillion dollars, are about to be freed of regulation and restriction. Many predict that prodigious amounts of this capitol is likely to flow out of Japan's markets and into the higher yields being seen in the U.S.

Merril Lynch, Goldman SDachs, Citibank, et al, are already hiring hundreds of laid off Japanese banking / economy employee's to facilitate new investments in U.S........Stay tuned.......

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:33
Skeptic (CBC TV'Witness show) ID#288260:
Copyright © 1998 Skeptic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Just caught the tale end but it was scary. The NSA
( I think that's the National Security Administration )
is larger than the CIA, and FBI. But it's not allowed
to check up on it's own citizens ( Against the law )
So what the do is have the Canadian version of NSA spy on
Americans and the NSA spys on Canadians.

Also be aware ( found this out today ) when you go on any site
they know the file names you have on your C drive.
Check out the top of
It's a Russian mic page but it is telling!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:32
RETIRED SOLDIER (Clarifiction) ID#347235:
My friend is Female, I notice I mispelled once, ol'timers disease dontcha

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:32
Donald__A (@Prometheus) ID#26793:
If deficit spending makes a country great we would all be saluting the Mexican flag ( or is it Argentina? ) one of those. Maybe Indonesia? Perhaps Bolivia?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:30
Ted (LGB) ID#330175:
and CASH~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:30
RETIRED SOLDIER (@ Aurator) ID#347235:
Thank you! Now I need some advice, A friend of mine who has bought gold lately because he know I did has asked if Gold goes to 340-360 this summer should she sell then? I personally bought mine to keep for several years if need be. I know I am just a small guy in the Market,spent 14k so far and buy about 1k a month from my retired pay so I can afford to wait but she is nervous. I'll listen to advice from all
but Bernatz

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:29
Ted (LGB....................................and what's real) ID#330175:
and I'm in stocks-real estate

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:29
JohnC__A (temporarily@Sunny_Sydney) ID#25541:
Copyright © 1998 JohnC__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Greetings to all around the world, just took these prices at the close of
Friday trading from
Apologies if this has already been posted.
  Tokyo--Apr 10--Spot gold prices rose above US $310.00 per ounce today
in Asia's thin trading, pushed up by a plunge in the US dollar/yen, dealers
    Although gold finally broke above resistance, few Asian dealers
expect follow-through buying to lift prices further in the holiday

   Spot precious metals prices are in US dlrs per ounce:
          Tokyo 0630 GMT    Tokyo 0000 GMT     Late New York
Gold       310.60-311.60     308.00-309.00     308.20-308.70
Silver       6.28-6.32         6.42-6.45         6.42-6.45
Platinum   426.00-429.00     422.00-425.00     422.00-424.00
Palladium  292.00-297.00     292.00-295.00     291.00-293.00

Bart, thanks again for providing a great site ! John C

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:27
Ted (EB.......................and the 'Fuzzster') ID#330175:
I would NEVER shop @ K-Mart!!!--*%#@&%$#^---Anyone BUT Tiger would be fine for MOI....*go Granite'

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:26
Donald__A (@Chas, APH, PJL) ID#26793:
My question on the XAU was prompted by the chart I created last weekend ( that I don't have the ability to display here ) which shows that the XAU/Spot Ratio tends, I hesitate to say always, makes a full cycle. A high in the .320 range is followed by a low to the .220 range back to the .320 range. Using that information we are now at .278 on the way back up to .320. I have been expecting that trend to play out. Nothing is ever for certain but that is what the past has shown during the 15 year history of the XAU.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:26
LGB (@ Prometheus) ID#269409:
Thanks, I'll check it out. Dad tells me he has a book I HAVE to read next week, The COming Boom or something...which supports a perpetual stock bubble due to increasing Boomer incomes for the next 25 years or so... already a theory that has me skeptical,.... much as many here keep trying to lable me as a CNBC stock sheep clone... ( Me..the guy who is currently OUT of mutual funds and into metals heavily dammit!! )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:23
Ted (Aurator........................................) ID#330175:
G'day mate~~~~~~~~~~~~~happy birthday yesterday ( I'm somewhat sloooow )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:21
Prometheus (@LGB) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I would disagree with your assessment of the importance of deficit spending by government as a cause of the current rise in the standard of living. Perhaps it comes from having seen an equally fine standard in Switzerland, without the wild aggregation of debt to support it. Surely, deficit spending has its place in history, particularly to finance the management of national emergencies, such as a war. I believe that the prosperity we see is much more the result of the capitalist system in action. The deficit spending is coincident, not the cause.

BTW, if you have a chance to read THE GREAT WAVE, I would like to see your take on it. It is not a hard-money book, and does not place all the troubles of history on paper.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:21
robnoel__A (headline missing from 18:02 post.... NEW TRIGGERS FOR DOW starts next week..strange timing) ID#411112:


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:19
EB (Fuzzy is goin'...) ID#22956:
To hell in a handbasket....... ( on the course ) ...Ya' gotta love the Fuzzster though. I agree Ted...Kmart bites..... the course


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:19
Leland (Correct USAgold URL) ID#316193:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:18
aurator () ID#257148:
Rolling on the floor wiping the egg off my face!

Thanks for your earlier posts. I am too lazy to keep updating the Charts that you kindly sent me on Dow/Gold.

Anyone charting Donalds Dow/Gold ratio mind posting same here? Looking for the spikes. Sounds like a fetish for body piercing.

Your question rendered me speachless and delighted some wise birds spying from afar. I shall return to your question anon.

Retd Soldier
Well spoke.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:17
Leland (Michael Kosares Wishes a Happy Easter And Gives Weekend Comments) ID#316193:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:17
LGB (@ Clone) ID#269409:
Thank do you belong to the Sandalites or the Thongites? ;- )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:15
LGB (@ Ted...Howie) ID#269409:
I'm not sure good is the term I'd use, but he's mighty good at comedic material! I find myself laughing, even as I change the station, having been grossly offended by his crassness once again! ( Nothing like a little Homeless Hollywood Squares game to take your mind off the morning commute )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:15
Ted (ROR ....& another(lower case)) ID#330175:
I could never compete with that line of BS~~~~~~~~How's life ( ) in the liberal-you!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:15
chas (Donald your last) ID#342282:
The rape is on. Those that have vs those that won't

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:14
clone (ALL - enough already!!!) ID#267344:
Copyright © 1998 clone/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This LGB/ANOTHER soap opera is really amazing. Never did I dream that this Kitco discussion group would remind me so vividly of Monty Python's Life of Brian! My god, people - snap out of it!! Since Another has become a religious figure on this forum ( something I am sure was never intended ) , let me put it this way: Another never suggested that LGB should be ridiculed, stoned, boycotted, disowned, or anything. LGB has apologised - let it rest. This forum must remain objective. Personal attacks accomplish nothing. More importantly, they waste band width. On the other hand, if you are offended by a post - deal with it. Perhaps it was said to make you think. If you cannot take the criticism then you do not belong here in the first place. - c

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:12
LGB (@ Silver PLate) ID#269409:
PS...but it was a good try. No if only all Kitco posters started to question ALL of the facts being posted daily like you just did....from some of the OTHER posters..... As a skeptic, it'd make me a happy clam.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:12
Ted (Latest DOLLAR- YEN news~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*Go $@#%^&*) ID#330175:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:11
Ted (LGB.....................................) ID#330175:
Howard Stern is a 'good-man',huh.....

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:10
LGB (@ Silver Plate..Deficit surplus) ID#269409:
Actually it was a Washington Post report by an independant analyst, not a Govt. report. The FED has had no comment. The Washington Post can HARDLY be considered a liberal rag of the status quo establishment....

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:07
LGB (@ Ted..) ID#269409:
Howard Stern was interviewing a Baywatch blond on his show this week, asking his series of simple blond babe questions.

He asked Who won the U.S. Civil war? She replied...uhhhhh Russia?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:04
chas (Donald re PJL Pivot Day) ID#342282:
Apr 10 @ 16:27. Did you get this? I tried 3 times and my lame machine went off. It sounds interesting cf your work. Also APH @ 17:22 may have a contribution. If you can, please send what you think and a copy of PJL's. I will be much obliged, Charlie

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:02
robnoel__A () ID#411112:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:01
Ted (In Da Bronx---------------------whatta game!------------* go $@#%^&*) ID#330175:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 18:00
silver plate (LGB - the logical thinker) ID#288433:
You , the preacher of logical and fundemental thinking takes the report of the gov spokes people that we have a budget surplus.?

Isn't wonderful how the human mind can make its own reality.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:58
Donald__A (@Old Gold) ID#26793:
Notice that it Glass-Stegall is being dropped at the same time that Banking-Investment Banking-Insurance blend back into one. That financial services group smells a crash and the commission income stream from Social Security is part of their Income Protection Plan.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:55
Skeptic (Old Gold) ID#288260:
Yeah the U.S. has two choices when they vote; the Republicans
who represent big business and the powerful and the Democrats
who represent big business and the powerful.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:53
Ted (Easter 'Story') ID#330175:
A chicken and an egg are laying next to each other in bed. The chicken is
smoking a cigarette with a smile on his face ... and with a pissed-off
look, the egg says,
Well.....I guess that answers THAT long-asked question.

Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this
message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position
or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:51
OLD GOLD () ID#238295:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ED Fishbane: Your social security post was right on target. If the governemrnt had indeed been placing the social security surplus in a real trust fund, there would be no problem today. Future deficits could be paid for by past surpklses and interest on same. But that is not how our pay as you go system works.

Invest social security moneys in the market? That is the ultimate greater fool theory in action.

Charles Keating; Your comments support my long long held idea that the main reason this bubble has extended so far is that the current financial and political establishment has thrown all caution to the winds. Such a bubble would never have been alllowed to develop by any past President, Congress, or Fed Chairman. The basic mistake many of the bears ( myself included ) made was not to have seen the lengths to which this Administration, this Congress, and this Fed would go to keep the mania going as long as possible.

But Kitcoites should never forget that the higher stocks go today, the higher gold goes tomorrow. The fact that the Dow has hit 9,000 and may well go to 10,000 gives gold much more upside than if the mania had peaked at 7,000 or 8,000.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:46
Ted (Augusta) ID#330175:
GO FUZZY~~~~~~~~~~~~screw K-Mart

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:45
Donald__A (@APH) ID#26793:
If I read you right you seem to be seeing a future divergence between spot and the XAU. Is that correct? If spot is going to 314 I would be be expecting the XAU to follow along ( or lead ) toward 90. Why do you expect a divergence?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:39
Mooney* (@ Strad Master!) ID#348169:
Hi Strad - Haven't touched base with you in ages! I took my wife to see the 'Waltz King' Andre Rieu last Thursday April 2 here in Toronto. Great seats - Front Row GOLD ( OK Bart? ) . We enjoyed ourselves immensely, but of course we know that the talent level cannot be anywhere near that of our own STRADMASTER! One thing though. I have never seen such a sea of completely white hair. The AVERAGE age of the audience must have been seventy! Tell me its not the same at your performances! ( If so I'll remember not to wear my Hai Karate when you come to town! ) ;- )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:36
Robh__A (Thanks also to Donald) ID#407135:
Thanks also to Donald for his constant efforts to keep us informed

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:34
SDRer__A (The Defacto Gold Standard for Bretton Woods Institututions and Global Business) ID#28593:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

One may argue with a degree of certitude that the United States government abandoned the gold standard, but NOT the world of international banking and global busines:

1 ) Bank for International Settlements currency of account--Gold Franc, which is nothing more or less than a specific measure of a specific fineness of GOLD ( 0.29032258xxx grammes of fine gold )

2 ) World Bank--SECTION 2. Authorized Capital
( a ) The authorized capital stock of the Bank shall be $10,000,000,000, in terms of UNITED STATES DOLLARS OF THE WEIGHT AND FINENESS IN EFFECT ON JULY 1, 1944.

Understandably, global business needs a unit of measurement which offers predictability and stability, the simple requisites for formulating business plans and executing business decisions.

The Multi-Tiered Currency World--PEGGED TO GOLD

1. The GF serves as the lynch-pin, providing a stable, standard unit of measurement, “Article 4 of the Bank’s Statutes defines the gold franc ( abbreviated to GF ) as representing 0.29032258xxxgrammes of find gold.”
It is nothing else. It is very specific measure of a very specific thing: gold.

2. The Defacto Gold Standard has built-in flexibility which has allowed it to address the needs of global business without unduly terrifying the ‘wants’ of global politicians.
a ) Used as a “Definer Peg” it has been, and can be, used to qualify and quantify the value of an SDR.
1. In the Telecom Rate post, we saw that 3.06 GF = 1 SDR

3. The SDR appears to be the next step up in the tier. Every currency has an equivalent value “SDR”; when agreement has been reached about the
GF/SDR value, the normal currency translation proceeds as usual. But has as its stable and predictable foundation GOLD.

4. From JAL’s “Postal Gold Franc” , 0.29032258, to the Canadian government’s SOR83-79; enabling statue C-52--Regulations respecting conversion of values expressed in gold francs into Candian Dollar equivalents for purposes of subsection 2 ( 6 ) “”gold francs” **means the francs referred to in subsection 2 ( 6 ) of the Carriage by Air Act, S.D.R. means Special Drawing Rights issued by the IMF; one finds Gold as the peg, gold as the measure, gold as the giver of stability and predictability.

**`Poincaré gold franc, in this particular instance, which--like the GF--is nothing more, nothing less, than a specific measure of a specific thing: gold.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:34
Bully Beef (Happy Easter( Even in light of what happened 1998 years ago)) ID#259282:
Happy Passover ( In spite of what happened to all those first born males ) .
Happy Birthday Kitco ( Evolution is the key to survival ) .

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:34
themissinglink (Jewelry Making) ID#373403:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:33
Robh__A (Another spot gold site ) ID#407135:
Many thanks for the post Big Time Tom it may prove very useful particularly to track any movement in Asia at the weekend after the US close.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:31
Ted (DOLLAR- YEN) ID#330175:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:29
Mooney* (@ Strad Master!) ID#348169:
Hi Strad - Haven't touched base with you in ages! I took my wife to see the 'Waltz King' Andre Rieu last Thursday April 2 here in Toronto. Great seats - Front Row GOLD ( OK Bart? ) . We enjoyed ourselves immensely, but of course we know that the talent level cannot be anywhere near that of our own STRADMASTER! One thing though. I have never seen such a sea of completely white hair. The AVERAGE age of the audience must have been seventy! Tell me its not the same at your performances! ( If so I'll remember not to wear my Hai Karate when you come to town! ) ;- )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:29
LGB (@ Leland...Keeling) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Re your 16:53..when we discuss the future of Social security, we ARE indulging in a Gold and PM related discussion.

Keeling. Great veiled references, masterful even. Many of us ( myself included ) would agree with you that we're headed for a major paying on the piper down the road, if present trends continue unabated.

Nevertheless, it really takes only a VERY cursory study of history, to quickly realize that more folks are enjoying more REAL prosperity today, for a more sustained length of time, and WORLDWIDE, than at any time in history. This is partially due to some of the tools of current economic flexibility ( which have now been put to excessive use, no? )

Do you truly believe, in your objective search for the truth, that the worldwide human condition, would be better off today, if we had avoided deficit fiat currency spending, and stuck with the failed hard money policies of the preceeding 6000 years? Let's just look back to Asia 50 years ago, the U.S. and Europe 70 years ago, virtually ANY large economic model preceeding that..... and you tell me.

Caves or computers? It's human endeavor and creativity, facilitated by the lending capital of fiat currency systems, that built what we have today. The alternative, would have been continued human poverty and misery for the many, and opression by the wealthy few. ( And I can make that statement in good concsience, even as a fiscal/social Republican conservative )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:28
Bully Beef (2 things...1-Is now the time to buy mutual funds in Japanese equities?Not dissing gold) ID#259282:
2- Where were all the Freedom of speech and political correct haters when Ventathorn got thrown out for his Homosexuality? Right... I know it was distasteful... ( and didn't belong ) but freedom of speech and what is politically correct is not so simple as apple pie is it? I don't blame Bart if he cut him off... I would have... but just the same Freedom isn't one sided.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:24
RETIRED SOLDIER (@ Gusto Oro) ID#347235:
Thank you, amybe after we all reflect during thie Holy weeks of most of the people in the world we can all be nicer? Shalom

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:22
APH (When is Gold a Buy?) ID#254201:
Copyright © 1998 APH/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All you need is a pencil, a weekly gold chart and your Saturday morning paper. When spot gold closes above the downtrend line on a Friday close ( see chart ) call your broker first thing Monday morning and buy long-term gold futures and call options. You'll gain immediate appreciation and may become rich. The shorts will become longs and the longs will get longer. Everyone is watching and waiting for that cross over, floor traders and armchair traders alike, none of them have any more knowledge or resources then we do. Just keep your powder dry and pencil sharp until that eventual Friday close. Next week the number is 314 spot.

In the mean time spot gold has traced out a nice ABC counter trend rally into the upper trend line on the weekly ( see same chart ) . The hourly chart on June gold looks like it wants to go down fill the hourly gap at 305.

For Monday sell June gold 311.5, stop 313.5. Sell may silver at 6.40, stop 6.45. Objective 6.00. XAU should come back down to 80.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:16
kitkat (@ Bart - Search prior comments) ID#218383:
Is there a way to easily search previous posts at Kitco?


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:15
Mike Sheller (Strad MASTER, ALL) ID#347447:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Sheller/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The rare confluence of the holy days is consistent with the ancient doctrines that predate all the world's great religions. The Vernal Equinox is the levelling moment, when light and dark are equal, and the Sun moves into the ascendancy. We must be guyided by the LIGHT. We must all pay homage to the coming of the days when the light exceeds the dark. For it is in that sphere that we, fallen humanity, may worship the TRUE GOD, and HIS attributes - Consciousness, Reason, and Sentience. Without ANY of these abstract metaphysical qualities, God would be a blithering idiot. What is higher then? The antropomorphic concept of an individuated God, or those abstract qualities which indwell us all? We all have Consciousness, and may be conscious of that fact. We all have Reason, and will be held accountable to that facility. And we all have sentience - we Feel and we Desire. We will be held accountable to what we allow ourselves to Feel...and what we allow ourselves to Desire. Reason will oversee that...or else we perish. All in the enveloping arms of Consciousness. This is the final and absolute Trinity. Let us resurrect to that fact in the Freedom of Passover, in this blessed season of Easter. Allah be praised.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:06
chas (JTF re quake work) ID#342282:
In a cursory search I got one person appropriate and have to rely on memory for the other. M.J.S. Johnston, USGS 345 Middlefield Rd, Menlo Park, Ca 94025. Correlation of seismic and magnitomoner at quake site in Palm Springs. Also Prof. Antony Frasier-Smith at Stanford U. using a screen to monitor atmospheric picked up a quantifiable quake observation in the ULF range. Both are easily accessible. I'll come up with more as I find it.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:05
2BR02B? (@did the rabbit live?) ID#266105:

Spring fertility rites, mayhaps the cause of the
pregnant womyn formation...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:05
Charles Keeling (@ Ed Fishbane RE: SOCIAL SECURITY) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree with your point of view regarding
the 5.5 trillion debt that can not be paid and
the fact that the politicians are now eyeing
Social Security with thoughts of propping up
the markets.

Some, point to how wonderful our country is
and what a great powerful economy that we have
here in the USA. I think it would be more
beneficial, in the end, to critique what is
being done rather than to set the USA on
a pedestal.

A free market economy should not be manipulated
by politicians for their own short termm
benefit at the expense of the gullible public.

The bubble that we have now in our economy
should have been pricked over a year ago. The
higher it goes, the harder it will fall.

I knew that we were in trouble when I saw AG
escorted into the State Of The Union proceedings
by Hillary and Tipper during WJC'S first term.
He looked sheepish and uncomfortable
sqeezed in between the two while they chatted
away with each other. Symbolic? I think so.

Prior administrations have let market forces
take their own course during the second year
of their term so that the economy can be on the
upturn at election time. This did not happen
with Clinton because he wanted a second term
and, to him, the end justifies the means no
matter who gets hurt. He ran on a platform of
It's the economy stupid, and he was determined
to show 8 years of unprecedented growth
regardless of the consequences.

The State Of The Union proceedings during WJC'S
second term saw him mired in controversary and
under attack over a dozen different scandals.

The people of the US have been bribed by false
this statement and the polls soar!
the trusting public this lie and his polls
continue to rise! He went on and on with a
long laundry list of promises that he can't
keep, and doesn't plan to keep for one reason

Everyone knows that if the EURO goes well the
US Dollar is in BIG trouble. Some other
currency will become the primary world
currency, and we will have a long lasting

Some people claim to be looking for the truth.
They proclaim all the false virtues of the
economy much as the spinmeisters that work
for WJC.

IMHO, anyone who knows the true facts about
our political situation and our economy and
spins the situation into something other
than what it really is, may also be benefiting
from maintaining the status quo. Such a person
would, of course, be guilty of self
delusionment and more than likely afraid to
face the truth.

I don't believe the talking heads on CNBC.
( Jimmy Rodgers excepted ) I am skeptical of
what I read, and I always consider the
source. Everyone certainly has a right to
their own opinion, and this right should be
protected. That is why it is mandatory to have
a built in B S sifter. Take what gets through
the sifter and discard the rest.

Spinmeisters do NOT get through my built in
BS Sifter.


Opinions Are Like A-- H----- Everyone Has One

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 17:01
EB (@ the Masters) ID#22956:
¡GO FREDDY! Augusta

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:57
Donald__A (@Prometheus) ID#26793:
We are of like minds. I have the Fischer book. I found his home address and sent him a copy of the Dow/Gold Ratio charts some months ago. Never had a response but it may spark a mention in a future book.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:56
Prometheus (@be happy) ID#210235:
Aurator, Mike, a toast to you on this occasion of your birthdays.

To the rest of you, have a great holiday. And Robnoel, thank you
for your wise words. Yes, this is a great occasion to lay down
the sword, and remember that while we are all muddling about, trying
to make sense of the brave new world we live in, we are all friends.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:55
Mooney* (TGIGF!) ID#348169:
Thank God It's GOOD FRIDAY! Although not normally a day of great rejoicing, it is, nevertheless, a day of great reflection. Peace On Earth.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:55
2BR02B? (@SS) ID#266105:

The head of Social Security was speaking the other day--

80% of recipients rely on its benefits for half or more
of income.

30% of payments are to pre-retirement age recipients--
disability, etc. which tend to be higher payments--

It is a politically popular and very meaningful
program to many. Tampering perceived adverse will
meet resistance akin to a cornered rat. Expansion
of transfers is powerfully political advantage.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:53
Leland (LGB, Yes) ID#316193:

The viscious circle will end. This is why most of us are on a
goldbug thread. Now, let's get back to Bart's intended subject
for our discussions.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:51
Donald__A (@Strad Master) ID#26793:
I hope I don't stir up any trouble with my response to your question to Mike Sheller but I believe many religions have adjusted holidays to line up with old pagan solstice and equinox holidays. This was done to easier obtain converts and recruits from their previous affiliations.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:50
LGB (Yesterday's metals close......) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Havn't seen these Reuters comments here yet, and they provide some analyst tidbits so here they are:

Thursday April 9, 4:41 pm Eastern Time

NY precious metals end mostly higher pre-Easter

NEW YORK, April 9 ( Reuters ) - COMEX and NYMEX precious metals futures
recovered from a lackluster morning session to end mostly higher Thursday, ahead of the
Good Friday holiday which will close the New York Mercantile Exchange Friday.

``The Bank of Japan's intervention in support of the yen today pushed the dollar lower and
was supportive of gold initially, but some book squaring ahead of the holiday was seen late
in the session,'' said Carlos Perez-Santalla, a COMEX floor trader with Hudson River

COMEX June gold ended down 90 cents at $310.20 an ounce, after trading a
$312.00-308.80 range.

Total COMEX gold volume was estimated at 25,000 lots.

In the bullion market, spot gold ended quoted $308.20/70, compared to the London
Thursday afternoon fix at $307.65 and the New York close Wednesday around $309.20.

Implied gold lease rates were around 1.10 pct for one month and 1.95 pct for 12 months

After seeing 18 year lows in mid-January at $277.00 an ounce, spog gold prices have
recovered to their highest levels since last November this week around $310 an ounce,
with some bullion houses encouraging producers to cover hedges and funds reducing
remaining short positions, analysts said.

``The current gold price environment, with contangos just under 4.0 pct, does not
encourage North American companies to do longer term hedging,'' said Ted Reeve, an
analyst with Scotia Capital Markets in Toronto.

``With only modest expectations for the gold price in 1998, we believe that the North
American industry will not add significantly to gold supply through hedging activities this
year,'' he said.

``This should be positive for gold, however, the market continues to be pre-occupied by
pending European Central Bank ( ECB ) decisions on gold and certainly the gold price will
continue to struggle as long as the US dollar remains strong.''

The ECB is expected to decide this summer it will hold around 10-20 pct of its reserves in
gold, analysts said.

And many analysts now expect European central bank gold sales to be effectively frozen in
the next two years under the terms of the Maastrict Treaty which will give the ECB
control of most European central bank reserves.

COMEX May silver ended up 0.7 cent at $6.400 an ounce, after trading a $6.200-6.450
intraday range. Total COMEX silver volume was estimated at 21,000 lots.

``COMEX May silver options expired today and there was some buying of silver in
anticipation of a possible exercise of out of the money $6.50 calls, in a re-run of the
Easter 1995 silver option expiry drama,'' said Hudson River's Perez-Santalla.

In the bullion market, spot silver ended quoted $6.43/46 an ounce, compared to the
London Thursday fix at $6.410, and the New York close Wednesday around $6.60.

Spot silver prices saw nine year highs around $7.90 in early February, helped by a 129.7
million ounce purchase by US billionaire Warren Buffett, and the silver forward price
curve remains in its most persistent backwardation since 1980.

Silver lease rates remained around 5.0 pct for one month Thursday, after some lending
from official sources in recent weeks, analysts said.

But silver demand in India has fallen in recent months as prices have risen, and as rain has
affected the winter harvest in the northern tribal belts, Goldfields Mineral Services
( GFMS ) managing director, Stewart Murray, told the Washington DC-based Gold and
Silver Institute's annual conference this week.

Meanwhile, NYMEX July platinum ended up $3.70 an ounce at $419.00, while NYMEX
June palladium ended up $2.95 at $270.00 an ounce.

In the bullion market, spot palladium traded Thursday near its 18 year highs seen in
March at $285.00, while one month palladium lease rates rose further to around 65 pct.

The suspension of Russian exports of platinum and palladium since December has push
PGM prices higher, as it did at this time last year when Russian exports were also

But Russian Finance Ministry officials said Thursday the necessary export quotas have
been signed in recent days, though the formation of a new Russian government was still
needed to implement the orders

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:47
LGB (@ Leland) ID#269409:
I understood your point but didn't articulate the response very well. Govt, created inflation, and the attendant SS COLA increases in payment amounts, are one of the primary reasons SS will run short. However, the voting BLOCK ( typo in previous post ) of SS recipients wields too much power now to make it viable for decreases, even in COLA amounts. It becomes a vicous circle ultimately, no

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:46
JTF (Signing off for the day!) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
2BRO2B: Your post noted. That fits with the concept that a sufficiently strong relious experience can generate stigmata, based on what the current concept of what stigmata are.

There may be some similarity between the stigmata phenomenon, and some kinds of illness. Some years ago, Norman Cousins, and Editor of Saturday Review ( I believe ) wrote a book called 'Anatomy of an Illness'. It describes his personal experience with Ankylosing Spondylitis ( -- or very similar disease ) . He was told it was terminal. He thought for a while, and decided that it would not hurt to concentrate on trying to think positively -- Humor was to be part of the self treatment. In a nutshell, it worked, and he was effectively cured.

My point in all of this is that the human mind is a powerful thing, and can actually affect reality -- in positive and negative ways.

One thing we might all think about on this Easter is that the future of humankind is a malleable thing -- if we all believe that bad things will happen, then we will react to events in a negative way -- and respond badly. If however, we think positively, and collectively think about how to make things better, they probably will become better.

Given that the millenium is just around the corner, there will be much talk about bad things -- some of which we can do little to prevent. However, we will make things much worse for ourselves if we concentrate on the bad things to the exclusion of good things. We must remember Norman Cousins experience with the value of positive thinking.

Happy Easter or similar religious experience, everyone!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:45
Prometheus (@Social security) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Unfortunately, this particular pyramid, which worked while the boomers ( big bottom ) were supporting their elders ( small top ) . Well, that's about to stand on its head. Institutionalizing the stock market through government pension fund purchases backed by nothing, will only sharpen the fall when it implodes.

If they are really able to stretch this bubble out into the next milleneum, we are going to see a collapse on a level with the French Revolution. There have been several really big inflations and collapses over the last milleneum, and they all ended in social reorganization of the first magnitude. They are described elegantly in The Great Wave, by David Fischer.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:45
pyramid (Strad Master @ 15:54) ID#217268:
You can add one more coincidence to the holy days from 3 religions occuring together, that of a full moon. Toss in a few earthquakes ( New Madrid and Japan ) and its time for a swig from a bottle of JD. Happy weekend to all.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:39
Leland (LGB, You Missed My Point) ID#316193:

No government can cover its problems simply by printing money.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:37
LGB (@ SPud....) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Your case need not be rested since it's built on a false premise. I don't believe the Fed Govt. has a budget surplus. What I was trying to say, is that our exponentially increasing debt load, promises to flatten if the economy remains strong, due to 98 projected FED budget surplus.

I well understand the total debt load, increasing interest payments on same, and ripoff of SS for general fund expernditures. Were it up to me, we'd be paying down the Fed. debt even as we speak.

Nevertheless, none of this changing the fact, the deficit spending of fiat currency, has helped bring more prosperity to more people, then any other invention of modern economic policy. Now that times is good though, we ought to start putting more thought toward debt reduction...something I'm sure you and I can agree is unlikely to happen.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:32
LGB (@ Leland...socialist security) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I hate to say this about a Democratic republic Leland, but the voting black, and political power of the SS lobby, has become so large, that it will be well nigh impossible for even the most honorable intentioned representatives to do anything substantial to fix SS.

A big part of the blame rests with us..the electorate. Our elders paid in to the program, many at rates of 4%. Now they expect to reap benefits that in many cases will be mutiple thousands of percent of what they contributed..and these are the same folks who have paid for homes that today's worker could never afford to buy. Let's face it, social security has become a massive entitlement program, and is used politically as such to great advantage in every election.

One of the dilmena's of a democracy where you also have such a large entitlement program, is that you can no longer make reasonable changes to the program.

Pyramid scheme's and chain letters are religously prosecuted by Attorney Generals in all the states, and at the federal level. Would that they should do the same with socialist security.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:30
2BR02B? (@JTF) ID#266105:

Interesting aspect to stigmata and its history-- as religious
art depictions of the Savior and injuries changed and migrated
to different locations of the body and form of injuries ( rope,
spikes ) -- so did the historical recorded evidence and incidents
of stigmata phenomenom.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:27
PJL (Pivot Day) ID#227228:
I have an XAU pivot day coming next week on the 15th. As can be seen at this site, the past dates caught some of the turns exactly. I'm thinking a bottom, and turn up after the 15th pivot. If you are interested, here's the link

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:27
Aragorn III (Tolerantl ...and synchronisity) ID#212323:
Copyright © 1998 Aragorn III/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Appreciation in abundance is extended to you for your thoughts and the Einstein/Tagore dialog. Interesting that my post sparked your thoughts in this direction, because yesterday I, too, was given over to musing on exactly that theme ( Tagore: Why not? Truth is realized through men. ) Although, my thoughts were at the time ineloqently summarized as a universal extension of the tired question If a tree falls in a forest...etc.
On a different matter, too many individuals are focused on the idea of making money, and they post here with disparagement for any individual who buys and holds gold, saying further that gold must be sold ( if you were ever foolish enough to own it ) during the rare event when its price is high to make money. You and I know the truth of the matter. Gold's true price is the labor necessary to pull it from the earth, or it is the service or product necessary to pry it from the hands of its current owner. Mankind's finest hour will not be realized in these days where government issued paper acts as an intermediary for those like you and me, while those unlike us see paper as the goal in itself. With such an unworthy goal, ambitions easily erode and no hope is held for the future. I say again, our finest hour will arrive when a man's efforts are justly compensated, and the toil of his youth provides a wealth that is not diminished with the passing of time.

You know the truth of my thoughts:
If you have no gold, choosing instead to hold your wealth in paper form, you might count the stones you've thrown onto the moon as your legacy rather than prove that those ashes you weep over were once something other than fallen leaves.
We are men of legacy, my friend, and these are days of opportunity.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:26
Spud Master (@LGB & Budget Surplus fairy tales...) ID#273112:
LGB believes that there the US FedGov has a budget surplus.

I rest my case.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:24
LGB (@ Budget Surplus) ID#269409:
Heard a report moments ago that the U.S. budget surplus for 1998 wil be substantial...on the order of 50 billion. If congress can reign in the philandering pres and his cronies, we may very well see a flattening of Govt. held debt here for the first time in decades.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:01
chas (JTF re Quakes) ID#342282:
Copyright © 1998 chas/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have to concur with your comments in the 14:28 post. However, what I have worked on is to try and get physical data derived from emf translations to set up a predictive network. There's a lot more here than I can't post, but I will get out my papers ( to & from ) and try to get some of it scanned. You are right about ULF fields. Water infiltration may have an effect, but for whatever cause, these movements usually begin, as you say, a little at the time. Catching threshold action appropriately is possible, but I don't know how practical. My email is now out altogether, so until isp can get on the ball, if you would like my phone is 704 433 6473. Many thanx for this and all posts, Charlie

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 16:00
Leland (Ed Fishbane Re. Social Security) ID#316193:
Copyright © 1998 Leland/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

After 1929, money that had been prudently put aside for
old age simply vanished. Thus, Social Security was an invention
in the 1930's to provide a safety net. It was never intended
for the combined tax rate on employee and employer to ever exceed
a total of one percent. Then came the social and monetary reforms
which have brought about the creeping inflation that has put us in
the fix we're in today. Restrain the Federal propensity to spend
and our Social Security program should heal itself.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:58
JTF (Something appropriate for the Easter Holidays) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Stigmata found on a Priest.

I don't know what to make of this -- if it is true it shows how little we know about the reality around us. If we assume this is true, does it mean that someone who concentrates sufficiently on a topic, such as remembering the experience of Christ, can actually create personal stigmata? I don't know. Different religions put differing emphasis on specific religious topics -- so if such events truly occur -- they must be religion specific. I believe in a 'supreme being', and I certainly do not understand this.

Regardess of our religious background, I do know that our reality may be much richer than what our limited human senses can perceive.

Current examinations of the Shroud of Turin are just as mysterious to me. How could a photographic negative of what appears to be Christ's features be embedded in a piece of cloth dated from the time of Christ?

The technology to do this was supposedly thousands of years in the future.

Happy Easter everyone! Or regardless of your religion, happy contemplations of the religious aspects of human life.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:56
LGB (@ 223) ID#269409:
@ 223..... Many others here have far eclipsed me when it comes to personal insult, as any truly objective reading of the site reveal clearly...My posts are meant to incite counterpoint balance and tend to be sarcastically satrical in style at times, but meant however, not to offend.

I do certainly agree with the final sentence of advice in your post and hereby adopt in immediately.

To all else...a happy and peaceful Easter.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:54
Strad Master (Curious question) ID#250297:
MIKE SHELLER: Do you make anything of the rare confluence of Holy Days for the three greatest religions all falling at ( more or less ) the same juncture?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:51
vronsky (GOLD TRIVIA 1970-1996) ID#426220:
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

In cleaning out my desk today I ran across some Gold Market Trivia - which you might find interesting.

Based upon gold bull markets from 1970 through January 1996, there have been 15 short-term rallies in gold bullion - averaging about +29.5% gain. The average rally lasted only about 2.5 months. However, there were three distinct clusters:

1. An average gain of 17.9% within 2.4 months.

2. An average gain of 40.1% within 2.6 months.

3. An average gain of 32.8% within 2.7 months.

Assuming gold has indeed put in a bottom - and if history repeats exactly - which is usually never does - we are then looking for the following gold prices per the above clusters. For our initial point, we will use The Privateer's breakout price of US$295
In the first week of April. See chart at:

Gold Targets based on historical rallies:

Per cluster #1 -- $348 by June 20, 1998

Per cluster #2 -- $413 by June 26, 1998

Per cluster #3 -- $392 by July 1, 1998

Who Knows…..? In any case it would make for a nice summer ( :- ) )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:51
Strad Master (Blessings to all) ID#250297:
ALL: May I add my warmest wishes to those that have already been posted for a Blessed and Holy Easter, and Pesach Kasher v'Sameach. I don't know the proper wishes for the feast ending Ramadan and the Haj but warmest best to those who observe that Holy time as well.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:49
kitkat (SearchEngine?) ID#218382:
Please post the URL for the Kitco comments search engine.
Thanks in advance.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:48
chas (Fummer re Quakes) ID#342282:
Thanx for quake site, I lost mine. New Madrid is another bomb waiting- I agree. I'll dig up some of my research on quake prediction and get back. See also JTF today at 14:28. Re YRI, have not heard back yet from Haggis- waiting. Thanx for your post, will do my best, Charlie

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:46
223 (Prometheus re 10:58 post) ID#26669:
You wrote: You wish to boycott the one who has apologized?

In a word, yes. I'm tired of a person who goes out of their way to step on others for months on end as a consistant pattern of misconduct. If the apology is meaningful then it will be accompanied by countable behavioral change. If not I decline to associate with the person. If the person involved is so much smarter and wiser than I am as they pretend they will either change, ignore me as being beneath their dignity, lambast me in their usual style, or shun me tit for tat.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:32
sam (all) ID#286279:
Copyright © 1998 sam/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Why not consider every post you make a real, personal international interaction? Think about it -- when you converse with another privately, that is one-on-one. But -- on Kitco your conversations are read by thousands, perhaps more. I would like to think that as many as 100 countries might be involved. I think you know where I am heading.

Yes, and if you that should clean up your act, more of you should write something for that wider audience and newbies once in a while. When you're gone for a few days and return to find everyone off on a tangent, doesn't it take you a while to figure out what is going on? Remember what it was like the first time you logged in here? Anyone else think a Kitco FAQ is good idea?

And please when you say you are bullish/bearish please be clear what you are referring to, gold or paper.

I'll shut up now.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:30
Big Time Tom (Site for spot gold price) ID#212320:
I've seen several requests recently for additional sites where one might find the current spot price for gold, and I don't know whether the following site, located somewhere in SE Asia, has ever been posted here. Neither do I know how often the price is updated, though it seems to be updated with reasonable frequency. Last night it showed the spot price rising through $309.00 and closing ( I presume ) at $310.30. Here is the site:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:22
JTF (RNC Chairman requests reactivation of Ron Brown forensic investigation.) ID#57232:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 15:08
Charles Keeling (@ Psilver Psched RE: Missing Posts) ID#344225:
Yes---I have noticed that one of my
posts, that I thought had been droped into the
bit bucket, does show up in short posts only.

Looks like a bug to me.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:56
sam (Retired Soldier, Selby) ID#286279:
Thanks, I've added them to the list.

I, repeat, it's not my list. Someone else did all that compiling work it and posted it on Kitco many months ago. I just added a few items.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:52
Fummer ((Chas re Quakes)) ID#284235:
After reading your post to Donald 13:50, I went to the Govt equake website and noted the 3rd ( 4/8 ) & 4th ( 4/9 ) minor quakes in the region of New Madrid, MO within the last month. Look out - one of these days there will be a shocker in midAmer. You can follow the quake site at:

One other thing - did you ever get a reply from Haggis re his thoughts on YRI project in Papua New Guinea?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:52
STUDIO.R (@Mike Sheller...Happy Birthday) ID#288369:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:51
sam (***birthday***) ID#286279:
Wealth to you all and may Kitco live forever!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:51
robnoel__A (To better time than this Easter,to lay down the sword,none of us are right all of time, ) ID#411112:

however together we are right most of the
time.....this site is like a family, a cyber
family if you will,warts and all.
Agree with all who call for a return to
civility,...and respect,besides this site is
a gold mine of stuff for my shows hate to lose anyone or Another....Happy
Easter/Passover etc.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:46
Speed (Harmony press releases on recent acquisition) ID#286199:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:44
Ed Fishbaine (social security) ID#190195:
Copyright © 1998 Ed Fishbaine/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

We all realize that there is no national budget surplus. The current social security surplus is used for general government expenses and essentially social security is on a pay as you go basis. There is no social security fund. FICA payments, which for many people exceeds their income tax, is simply a tax. In fact it is not possible to establish an autonomous social security trust fund in the manner in which an individual can establish a trust fund. What investments other than government paper could fund such a trust ? Ah, there1s the rub. Only government investment in industrial securities would do the trick. Then what have you: old fashioned syndicalism in which government has its hands on control of the economy.

Setting up individual retirement accounts with social security money does not neutralize this outcome. Turning the average Joe into a market player will result in disaster. Remember the market goes down also. The government will have to bail out the average Joe or risk chaos. It will take his losing equities off his hands.

Ask yourself why the propaganda about privatizing social security is in fashion at this time. Is it pure coincidence that it is happening just when the Dow is moving towards collapse and the big boys in Washington know this very well. ( the euro challenge to the dollar will probably weaken the dollar raising interest rates and destroying the market ) . The government wants a powerful source of buying power to support the market and where can this be found other than in social security receipts?

To the extent that SS receipts are deflected into equities ( either directly by the government or by individuals ) the government is willing to forego its use of the SS budget surplus. As I read it this reflects an act of desperation on the part of Rubin and company. They dread a market collapse and the consequent political mayhem from all those uninformed believers in an ever onward and upward 50,000 Dow far more than a deficit which they can fund with paper. The country has lived with inflation for decades and while paper will push inflation and slow the market and even cause corrections, it will not in itself cause immediate collapse.

What is needed to forestall collapse is a source of buying power to reassure the little lambs that their equity positions are safe---at least for now. In the long run it matters not because the multi trillion dollar national debt can1t be paid and there has to be a washout. But Washington only thinks of the near term. Let the next administration worry about the coming chaos.

There is not as much danger to social security as is generally believed. A few modifications would do the trick. But the government does not want a solution.

Comments are welcome.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:42
NightWriter (A very clear high-level explanation of the Y2K problem.) ID#320376:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:42
JP (Attacks and Insults --Old Gold I agree with you) ID#253153:
I have been tunning to this site for almost a 1.5 years and I love it. The diverse opinions , analysis , current facts is what makes this site so good.
Every person is entitle to express his or her opinion without being insulted or criticized. Let's dwell on the positives and elliminate the negatives.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:29
Argent (LGB @14:07 and Spud Master @ 14:02) ID#255217:
Two really good posts, back to back, both of which I am in total agreement.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:28
oris (LGB) ID#238422:
LGB, you know that some people can get it, and
some people, by the nature of their character,
can not get it. Your logic is very sharp, and
your words are even sharper. It may happen,
that sometimes these sharp words can cut some people
and will not cut other people. I do not see any
tragedy in Kitco house yet. Another is a fine writter
and you are a fine cold-blooded thinker.
I like you both.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:28
JTF (Earthquakes) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
chas: I find your comments on earthquakes intriguing. What I have learned is that 'moonquakes' have been reported by NASA for some time, in direct relation to the phase of the moon. This makes sense as gravitational ( tidal ) stresses on the moon are periodic with the phase of the moon.

My conclusion ( the least controversial and least speculative of several ) is the Terrestrial earthquakes should also correlate with tidal forces ( solar/lunar tidal phase ) . The reason that this phenomenon is not obvious to all is that all ( underline all ) earthquakes are triggered by the tidal stresses -- not just the big ones. So -- 'micro' earthquakes should correlate will with solunar phase. Major earthquakes also appear to be correlated with the solunar phase, but it takes many years - decades for the forces to buildup to the point where a 'little' solunar tidal force can trigger them.

Hence the poor positive predictive value of solunar tidal forces.

On a more controversial matter, what electromagnetic earthquake precursors were you referring to? DC electric fields? DC magnetic fields? Or -- ultralowfrequency EM fields? Is this due to simple water infiltration of a loosening fault line, or is it more complex?

I have suspicions that our concept of 'charge' is inaccurate, and that very low frequency electromagnetic/gravitational interactions are much richer than we think. I suspect that there are some experiments done in Michaeil Faraday's time that may need reexamination. What I have learned over the years is that physical phenomena are often overlooked because simlified theories are developed based on experimental data. Sometimes the simplicity is overdone. One problem with scientists is that they are human, and there is a ( laziness ) tendency to focus on the current consensus about a physical model, and not the original raw data from which it arose. The truth about why gold makes a worthwhile currency is the same thing -- the data is there for all to see if they wish to see it.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:26
OLD GOLD (personal attacks) ID#238295:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Donald: Thanks for the info re London gold trading! Will make my holiday a little brighter.

Bart: This business of personal attacks and insults is like a cancer. Once the door is opened it tends to get out of control and can destroy an otherwise excellent site. I too have engaged in this game but only after many others had led the way. I will gladly renounce any repeat performance if others do the same. I suggest you crack down hard and soon.

There are other gold sites where a more civil atmosphere prevails. This still excellent site could become extinct if present trends continue.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:23
LGB (@ JTF/Tyro) ID#269409:
OK, peace....isn't that part of the message of Easter?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:23
Speed (Chuck - Harmony ADR trades as HGMCY) ID#286199:
Good article by Neil Behrmann

LONDON - The European Central Bank and its national banks should privatise the management of their gold reserves and launch a gold euro coin, said NM Rothschild director Robert Guy.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:22
Psilver Psyched (Too much KITCO birthday party) ID#216217:
Anyone else recognizing that full text v. short texts mode are not seeing same posts today? My full texts has no posts between 11:27 and 13:05...
Gone back and forth several times - or - did I just enter the twilight zone?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:22
2BR02B? (@taste is the microscope of the judgement) ID#266105:

Donald, Kitco news conduit/publisher extraordinaire
has a heavyweight contender in the form of one Leland.
Those links you find Leland are great, squaring well
with the info I've gleaned from other venues, covering
large tracts of pickings in one swell foop each and
every time. Wright on!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:20
jim c () ID#69280:
Happy Birthday to Kitco.
I'd like to take this festive occasion to thank all of the people on Kitco for providing wonderful insight and a wealth of information on varied topics. Have a great day. Go Gold!
We're going to have a good time- Paul Mcartney

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:19
chas (Spud) ID#342282:
I've seen it coming. I don't think anybody has enough answers to avert it. But I've settled where i have a lot of friends that think the same. My body can't do what it used to, but I can still think and my trigger finger is pretty fair. Rednecks didn't get that name sitting in a plush chair making deals. Hope we get the right angle, Thanx Charlie

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:18
LGB (@ Prometheus/all.... Forrest Gump) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since you brought it up earlier, here's one of many links to the CSICOP online archive artciles, that demonstrate the way most skeptics approach claims that are presented in fuzzy logic manner. I admit that this article, and many like it, parallels my own approach to such information and the world view which precipitates same.

Now, as to this whole ANOTHER debacle, and the mindset of all the folks who are now screaming for my head as the site Infedel.... I am somewhat reminded of that scene in Forrest Gump... the one where he's the running Guru with a large multitude of dedicated followers behind him. He finally stops...his followers stop well behind him in AWE....he turns..He's going to speak they say....and then he says I'm pretty tired, I think I'll be going home now

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:17
Selby () ID#286230:
Sam: You missed one that is gaining in populairity in Europe I'm told

OSPTM-- One super power too many.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:11
Forgive my ignorance in this matter. I know that harmony bought reo out of bankruptcy. But does this mean my shares in reo will or might have some value. Any input will be greatly appeciated. P.S. symbol for harmony?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:09
ForkLift__A (Y2K warmup) ID#324266:
Apple computer's new HFS+ disk formatting software has been trashed by the switch to daylight savings time, and while not everyone is having the problem, it's still an embarassment.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:07
LGB (@ ANOTHER) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I simply couldn't disagree more with your characterizations. My satirically oriented posts re the ANOTHER cult here, have little or nothing to do with his posts, and were aimed instead at his disciples.

Not only do I bear no ill will toward ANOTHER, but I have lauded him on many ocassions as being extremely intelligent, having obvious market knowledge, etc. As I said before, I've never submitted a SINGLE post directed specifically at ANOTHER or his message.

As far as his overall message, many find it interesting, some exhaustingly so. For me, it's not on a par with the valuable contributions of say, an RJ, or many others who are real world rela time, traders, who make clear calls, have demonstrated their market knowledge, and have an excellent track record.

The oil for Gold thing, is pretty old stuff, having been common knowledge since the early 70's that many middle East nations and oil magnates, felt that Oil was a finite resource that would best be replaced by another finite resource of they are to extend their wealth and influence after said oil reserves have been exhausted. Time will tell if this was the best strategy. As to ANOTHER's current complex tale, of interwoven BIS LBMA connections, etc., it's all very interesting I'm sure, and for some, it's info. they want to add to their repertoire of ammo. for making investment decisions. Great, more power to em. I remain a skeptic, particularly after the Belgian CB sale, rewrite of history re this board.

Folks who accuse me of egocentric close mindedness, for not delving deeply into the ethereal writings of ANOTHER, even going so far as to demand my silence, simply do not understand how ideas and information is tested for veracity in this world of conflicting claims.

The question in my mind, is not What does ANOTHER think? and it's certainly not What does LGB think?

The real question is What is true if ANOTHER and LGB don't exist?

As to believing I'm some kind of expertly clever market trader who has become wealthy due to investing acumen...don't make me laugh! If anything I got aboard late, and acted so conservatively that I'll be working to age 60 or beyond, before I can kick back and count my dough. Tens of Thousands have done a lot better than I have.

It doesn't take brilliance to benefit from the best and longest Equity bull market in history, but it does take stupidity NOT to benefit from same.

Re, U.S. centric comments, look man, these are well established facts, whether you like them or not. The U.S. does indeed currently enjoy the strongest economy in the world, highest corporate prifts, highest worker productivity, lowest taxation rate for benefits provided, best combination of inflation rate and low unemployment of any developed nation, strongest currency, and SOLE remeaining superpower status in the world. These are immutable facts, that anyone who reads any financial pubs. is already well aware of.

You misunderstand my motives entirely, where Prometheus has understood the, My skeptically derisive posts spring not from envy, ego, or meanness, but from a simple love of truth, logic, reason, and scientific methodology. Feel free to post nonsense on the forum, and I'll feel free to call it nonsense.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:02
Spud Master (@chas) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
America as we knew it is over; we are witnesses to the transition from a Constitutional Republic, to a Totalitarian Empire ( aka The New World Odor ) .

The Romans went throught the same phase, a corrupted Senate, a stultified populace satiated with football & cheap beer, and willing traitors ready to support the final usurpation of authority. We in America ARE NO DIFFERENT.

It's pretty obvious that anyone who disagrees will be labled a terrorist, a racist, a religious extremist and suffer from asset confiscation, removal of their children ( for safe-keeping from anti-social ideas ) or incarceration in prision. Waco and Ruby Ridge were just dry runs. The real dry runs are the Hatian operation and current US/UN operations in Bosnia - excuses to restore democracy and civil order. What you see there, will be applied here in America.

I only hope that an American resistance movement will coallese and demand restoration of Constitutional law, and a reckoning of Washington D.C. political leaders, culminating in crimes against America trials, ending at the gallows, with a sharp yank, and a dry 'pop'.

The only bright spot in this is the fact that Americans are armed to the teeth with guns, and hopefully, we will fight back for freedom, liberty and family. Poor PH'ed in LA, quivering with fear at these words - he has long forgotten the American Revolution of 1776 and what it was fought for. He sits, smug, safe in his Liberal parasite life, sucking tax dollars from the throats of American workers.

No one ever willingly gives up their freedoms; they are taken away grain by grain, in a manner that no one notices, until one day. they are gone.

Those who trade a little freedom for a little security ( gun control ) soon shall have neither

-- Benjamin Franklin, disrespected dead white male sexist pig

1776 Now!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:01
Tyro (@LGB and ANOTHER) ID#36977:
Copyright © 1998 Tyro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
LGB: I've spent some time looking through posts from earlier this week. Although you may not have directly addressed ( your 12:11 ) ANOTHER in a deprecating manner, you have called him a Hoaxter and a total fraud Your thinly-veiled references fooled no one. See Apr 7 @ 12:14 and Apr 8 @ 17:20.

I agree with you that you were not the only one. So what? Does this make your behavior any less disgraceful? To your total and complete credit, you did make an apology. You have posted many good, thought-provoking missives ( see, for example Apr 7 @ 12:06 ) . I, for one, do NOT want to see you banned, unless you continue to abuse others. Please, it really detracts from the quality of this forum.

It is not my desire to see only pro-Au cheerleading on this forum. But ridiculing those that feel that physical gold is an insurance policy against financial calamity is stepping over the bounds of civility. Gold has been and will probably continue to be good insurance. Look at Asia. No one expects to use insurance. Should you cancel your homeowners fire insurance policy because you didn't have a fire? What kind of poor returns have you received over the years? Certainly not worse than Puetz's puts. Why did you foolishly invest in that policy?

As I browsed through past posts I, like Psilver Psyched @ 12:23, had a THOUGHT that maybe ANOTHER was becoming bored, or was afraid of being exposed ( did PH in LA come too close to the mark on his Apr 7 @ 12:06 post? ) . It is certainly possible that this is what occurred.

I, too, wonder if ANOTHER is completely genuine. However, until I KNOW for a fact that ANOTHER is a fraud, I will RESPECT his right to present his THOUGHTS, and for others to openly discuss them with him. Even if he is not who he pretends to be, at least he is always civil. The thesis presented by ANOTHER is, at the very least, thought provoking, even if it may turn out to be pure fiction. Did not the pure FICTION and FANTASY of Leonardo DaVinci and Jules Verne not prove true, at least in part, eventually?

Please do not favor me by pointing out my errors. I am fully aware that I am an insignificant spec in the cosmos, that I am fallible, and that there are others that are much worse than you that do, indeed, deserve to be banned from Kitco. Please see my 03:xx ( A Plea ... ) from early this morning; perhaps you missed it.

ANOTHER: Please return. Many of us wish for you to continue.

Bart and ALL: Please pardon my use of bandwidth, and breach of Kitco nettiquette. I could no longer remain silent. I will not post for 48 hours as a self-imposed punishment.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 14:00
Gusto Oro (R.S.) ID#377235:
Well said, Retired Soldier.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:59
JTF (Happy second birthday, Kitco! Lets make Kitco even better!) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Bart Kitner: I also add my thanks to many others today for making this virtual site possible. This site clearly is unique among what I have found on the Web in over a year of wandering before settling here.

LGB: I noted your post today. I know you are aware that sometimes you get heavyhanded with your posts -- and the essence of your posts are often a useful counterpoint to the often excessively bullish Kitco goldbug. However, you say that you are the perfect gentleman in real human interactions.

Why not consider every post you make a real, personal international interaction? Think about it -- when you converse with another privately, that is one-on-one. But -- on Kitco your conversations are read by thousands, perhaps more. I would like to think that as many as 100 countries might be involved. I think you know where I am heading.

All: Lets make Kitco even better this year -- even more international. All of us -- including myself -- need to improve their dialogue. We can still have the same dissention that makes Kitco posting and lurking so enjoyable. But -- we must control our conduct -- because we do not know who reads this site. If we all exert the necessary disciple, and avoid personal attacks, and similar things, I think we will find that more international posters will be tempted to post -- and our information gathering will become even more effective than it already is.

So -- I am not just making this plea for altruistic reasons -- I am making it for a practical reason -- that our knowledge base will improve.

Just like the prisoners dilemma -- good behavior actually has a practical benefit that all will gain from. Bad behavior -- and all will lose.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:55
Charles Keeling (@ ALBERICH ) ID#344225:
I echo your sentiments. Probably best
to just totally ignore pompous A holes.

ROFL at your last post!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:50
chas (Donald re Quakes) ID#342282:
I'm not sure that these are related to the Big Wave, but they could be precursors to a monster considering the current frequency. Japan should have a more accurate measure of quakes than US, but I can't get enough of their research translated to bring me up to date. I would call this situation critical. Keep me posted. Thanx

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:43
Donald__A (Deflation feared in China as retail prices fall for sixth straight month.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:40
Donald__A (Gold traded in London today. Closing price $310.25) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:40
ALBERICH__A (@LGB: Your Post from 12:11 @ Prometheus) ID#212197:
Copyright © 1998 ALBERICH__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Mr. LGB:

The justification for your aggressiveness and offensive attitudes towards those people whose contributions you obviously don't understand, seems to be that you have acquired a lot of wealth. At least what you personally think is a lot of wealth. You brag with this wealth and put it into the American patriotic context. ( We are the wealthiest, the most advanced, the most....everything ) .

It also seems to anger you that ANOTHER attracted enourmous attention. This seems to evoke evn hatred in you which you feel free to express in a primitive and unhidden manner. It seems to me that what you cannot forgive the participants of this site is that we do not put you into the center of our admiration and astonishment. You call it a cult, because your own mind is blinded with envy and jealousy.

I have learned about this Kitco site through my gold broker back in December/January. In the meantime I have read in different magazines and Newsletters about the extraordinary THOUGHTS from ANOTHER published on this site.

This is the tragey about the American culture, that on the one hand, great contributions are recognized by open minded people, but at the same time, any ugly spirited person caims equal rights of expression and feels self-confident in doing so.

Right now, part of your arrogance is built on a bubble ( The highest stock indexes mankind has ever seen! )

I hope other participants from other cultures ( like myself ) and Americans who feel hurt, will not start to withdraw from this extraordinay site. I regret very deeply if we have lost ANOTHER as a contributor of his THOUGHTS.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:39
chas (Spudmaster @ DOW ) ID#342282:
I'm afraid you have it. God knows it would be the rape of the Millenium. I guess there has to be an all out exposure and maybe that won't work.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:35
2BR02B? (@3-cubed) ID#266105:

When markets panic

What can be done?


It is said that only ten percent of the trillion zipping
about daily can be accredited to legitimate business transactions,
the other ninety percent is exchanging currencies for the sake
of exchanging currencies.

In 1994, the year of the European Exchange Rate mechanism
breakdown the majority of profits at some of the large int'l
money center banks were generated in their currency exchange
departments, legions of highly skilled and trained personnel
trading currencies, an entire financial sector industry sprung
up and enabled as a result of the floating exchange rate mechanism.

What can be done is to fix the currencies, tether the untethered
back to earth but given what hath been wrought ( rot? ) since untethering
that is nigh unthinkable, for that way lays madness. Instead, we're
to head into more of the same of the recent Asian variety in denial--
panics, runs, crises, shocks and convulsions in and to the global
financial system in larger magnitudes at greater velocities.

Where most anyone strives *most* diligently to realize worst
fears, the technocratic charting of routes around the increasing
financial instabilities is laying the path straight into that aimed
towards in avoidance.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:34
RETIRED SOLDIER (@ Sam) ID#347235:
In the Army CYA had another meaning also, Cover Your A--
Happy Easter to all, A Peaceful Pesach to my fellow Jews, Reify Et.AL
a safe return from the Haj to our Muslim friends sorry for your loss yesterday. Shalom

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:34
Donald__A (Three earthquakes jolt Japan, 5.4 mag, no major damage.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:33
Spud Master (@Midas and the FedGov's lust for a tobacco settlement) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Right on!

Alcohol kills far more Americans and causes far more human misery than tobacco ever will.

The hypocrites Cinton & Congress & the lawyers: ALL they want is the tobacco tax money, hidden in the guise of feeling, caring emotions for our children.

Just like State of Texas Lottery monies: promised for our public school systems, but disappearing into the untrackable cesspool of general spending, so will any tobacco settlement taxes disappear into the untrackable cesspool of Washington lawyers, lobbiests and politicians pockets.

IF CLINTON REALLY CARED, IF HE REALLY FELT THE PAIN OF LUNG CANCER VICTIMS FROM SMOKING, the tobacco settlement would do something like mandate the decrease of nicotine content in tobacco products by 20% a year for the next 5 years, at the end of which, cigarettes would contain ZERO PERCENT of addictive nicotine - and hence - we must assume - people would stop smoking! Problem solved, QED!

Clinton & et al care? MAKE ME LAUGH! That is one venal SOB, along with the rest of Washington D.C. aka Imperial Rome. We are all just sheep for the slaugter to them. Come on, PH'ed in LA, defend your scumbag leaders!

How about Midas' putative alcohol settlement, eh?! Where is that? Oh golly, that aught to be worth a cool TRILLION dollar settlement, eh?

Ah, but this makes too much sense!

Spud, vomiting up his intestines just thinking about our so-called
leaders & democracy...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:28
Donald__A (@Aurator) ID#26793:
Repost of a vanished post. Same post-grabber that got JTF I guess.

I wanted to convert my spike mumbers to Dow in pre 1934 dollars. Here are the values:

All dates 1998. January 23rd Dow 530.60, March 20th Dow 631.26, April 8th Dow 594.88.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:24
robnoel__A (sam...thanks that was a bookmark off to study) ID#410198:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:23
sam (aurator) ID#286279:
Still speaking to me?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:21
sam (tolerant1) ID#286279:
You get a gold star for speeling today! : )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:20
robnoel__A (Studio R/ straddler....I have been using this forum as a great resource for many shows) ID#410198:
so let me take this oppourtunity to thank all and especially Bart,HAPPY B DAY KITCO

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:18
sam (robnoel) ID#286279:
Copyright © 1998 sam/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here it is-

I forgot who posted the core list, I have added a few.

AAMOF As A Matter Of Fact

AAR At Any Rate

ADN Any Day Now

AFK Away From Keyboard

AG Silver also Alan Greenspan

APEC Asian Pacific Economic Co-op

ASAP As Soon As Possible

AU Gold

BAC By Any Chance

BAK Back At Keyboard

BBIAF Be back in a few

BBL Be Back Later

BBML Be Back Much Later

BBS Be back soon / shortly

BIS Bank of International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland, the central bank of central banks

BMG Buy More Gold or ticker symbol for Battle Mountain Gold Co.

BOJ Bank of Japan

BRB Be Right Back

BTW By The Way

CBS Central Banks

CU L8R See You Later

CYA See Ya

DD Durban Deep

EOT End of transmission

FAQ Frequently asked questions or a document that answers frequently asked questions

FED Federal Reserve Bank

FOAD – F--- Off And Die

FRB Federal Reserve Bank ( 12 of them )

FTP File transfer protocol

FWIW For whatever it's worth

GAF Get A Life

GIGO Garbage In Garbage Out

GMTA Great Minds Think Alike

GOL Groaning out loud

GS Goldman Sachs

GTRM Going To Read Mail

GR8 Great

HTH Hope This Helps

HTTP Hypertext transfer protocol; the Internet utility which enables the World Wide Web to link multiple resources together

IAIYH It's all in your head

IMF = International Monetary Fund

IMHO In My Humble Opinion

IRC Internet Relay Chat.

IRL In Real Life

KUTGW Keep Up The Good Work

LBMA London Bullion Market Association

LOL Laugh ( ing ) Out Loud

LRF Little Red Flag

LTNS Long Time No See

MA Moving Average

MEGO My Eyes Glaze Over

MITI Ministry of International Trade and Industry

MOF Ministry of Finance

MorF Male or female

MYOB Mind Your Own Business

NWO = New World Order

OZ Australia, ounce

PGM Platinum Group Metals ( Platinum, Palladium, Rhodium )

PM Precious Metals

Plz please

POG price of gold

POO Price of oil

POS price of silver

PPT Plunge Protection Team

PT Platinum

ROTFL Rolling On The Floor Laughing

ROTFLOL Rolling on the Floor Laughing Out Loud

ROTFLMAO Rolling On The Floor Laughing My 'Anatomy' OFF

ROFLWTIME Rolling On Floor With Tears in My Eyes

RR Robert Rubin

RTC Resolution Trust Corp

RTFM Read The F-g Manual

SA South America, South Africa

SDR = Special Drawing Rights

SEA = South- East Asia

SOS Same ol’ Sh!t, Sh!t on ( a ) Shingle

TA Technical Analysis,

TIA thanks in advance

TTFN Ta-Ta For Now!

WB World Bank

WJBC Bill Clinton

XAU,GOX = Gold Stock indexes

:-v talking puppet head

: ) smile

:D smile/laughing/big grin

; ) wink

:x my lips are sealed

:p sticking out tongue

: ( frown

:' ( crying

@~ rose @@@

: ) marge simpson

#: ( bad hair day

~''',,,,c crocodile

=|: ) } Uncle Sam

%*@:- ( hung over

%-6 brain-dead

( -: left handed

( 8-o mr. bill!

*:o ) Bozo the clown

/:-| Mr. Spock

8- ) excited/wearing glasses

8:- ) glasses on forehead

:, ( crying

:-$ mouth wired shut

:-% banker/Snidely Whiplash

:-& tongue tied

:-* eating something bitter/sour

:-9 licking lips

:-/ skeptical

:-0 orator/yelling

:-1 bland face

:-7 wry statement

:-? smoke 'um peace pipe

:-@ screaming

:-[ really bummed

:-S incoherent/bizarre statement

:-x lips are sealed

:-` spitting out chewing tobacco

:-t cross

;- )

@= nuclear war

$- ) opportunity

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:16
Spud Master (@3-Cubed) ID#273112:
Copyright © 1998 Spud Master/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
What is being described, C3, is Bill Clinton's as of yet unannounced new Executive department: The Department of the DOW.

Face it: There is *NO WAY OUT* for the masses in the stock market now. Before 2010 ( begining of 1945 Baby Boomer's retirement wave ) the reversal of cash-flow into the stock market will cause a total collapse.

The FedGov knows this.

The only question is how they control ( remember, control is the power-addict's crack cocaine ) it. They ( the FedGov, WILL have it - or else ) .

Merging Social nSecurity with the stock market makes the FedGov an OPEN participant ( as opposed to their current covert particpation via proxys like Rubin's old firm, and the PPT ) .

Now the FedGov can dictate and parcel out in controled dribbles the Baby Boomer's retirement money from stock sales.

Oh no, no, no, no, no .... you can't take ALL your stock earnings Mr. Baby Boomer, we will pay it out in increments just like Social nSecurity.

MEANS TESTED increments at that. Get it? Your IRA, 401K, Roth IRA, Keog stock investments have just become Social nSecurity extensions.

And guess what? The Baby Boomers will die off before ever realizing their massive stock gains, because the retirement age goal post is just going to get moved higher & higher until NO ONE can reach it: 65 .. 67 ... 70 ... 85 ... 90. After all, we're living longer now, right?

And here's the REALLY GOOD PART: when you die, instead of those stock gains being inherited, passed on to your children ... heh heh heh ... they'll become part of the Social nSecurity investment in our children ( translation: Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, et al Washington bureaucrat's offspring, living the good life in the Washington D.C. - New York political axis ) .

Happy Easter & 1776 Now!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:11
sam (robnoel) ID#286279:
Excess bandwidth today, I think I can help you out.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:09
Straddler (STUDIO.R) ID#280215:
That would be a hit show. Think about the last month of posts. That would be awesome to put all of the combatants on one stage and go at it. It would even upstage Jerry if it competed against him!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:08
robnoel__A (straddler..quite correct...the one flaw with this system,not being able to convey the emotion when ) ID#410198:
posting,I have said things in jest and got trashed,maybe I need to learn all those crazy little ( :=&** anyone got info on thaT?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:08
JTF (Last post vanished into the Aether) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All: Re -- EURO gold. Please remember that there is talk about internal and external reserves. Internal reserves are ( I believe ) how much gold Germany wishes to hold in reserve for the Deutschemark. External reserves are for the EURO only. In my opinion, even 15% external reserves in gold are bullish given that the European CB's have said that they will not 'sell any more gold'.

What really matters is total = internal + external gold reserves. However, that will be hard to evaluate while the EURO and individual European currencies coexist. My guess is that the Deutschemark is not going to vanish overnight, and probably not even on the current offical date when this is supposed to happen.

The EURO is going to exist as a currency basket for some time to come, and the transition to 100% trade only in the EURO will be a slow one, IMHO.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 13:05
chas (SDRer your 12:22) ID#342282:
It appears that this gives the banks the same value as the margin dept. at the brokerage to up value margin as prices increase w/o selling? Right?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:27
3-cubed (bubble) ID#344239:
Copyright © 1998 3-cubed/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When markets panic
Copyright © 1998
Copyright © 1998 Reuters News Service
PARIS ( April 9, 1998 10:31 p.m. EDT ) - Investors panicked, financial markets plummeted and interest rates soared as government struggled to stem the flow of money. Fortunes were lost and life savings evaporated in hours, even minutes.

The nightmare scenario could be a flashback to the great Wall Street stock market crash of 1929, or the Mexico crashes in 1982 and again in 1994. It could also be applied to the worst days of the Asian financial crisis in late 1997 and early 1998.

There was little new about the way investors took fright at the Asian meltdown.

What is new is a growing sense among the world's economic policy makers that free flows of capital around the world, hailed by current doctrine as the life force of the world's globalizing economy, may be getting out of hand.

I believe that what is being referred to as the architecture of the international financial system will need to be thoroughly reviewed and altered as necessary to fit the needs of the new global environment, U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said earlier this year.

Pieter Bottelier, senior economic adviser at the World Bank, went further at a conference in Paris.

The sudden withdrawal of capital can have social consequences that are perhaps as cruel as war, and in some senses even worse than war. Millions of people in Thailand, Indonesia, in the Philippines, Malaysia and also Korea, are being thrown out of work, he said.

Very large numbers of people who had gained some degree of confidence in their middle class status have suddenly been robbed of their lifetime savings and social security, he said.

Only last September, the International Monetary Fund won backing from its members for a statement that free capital flows, supported by sound economic policies, were key to the world's economic health.

Its chairman Michel Camdessus has since said, however, that the Asia crisis was not triggered by too much liberalization, but rather by perverse liberalization.

Even the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development, a bastion of free-market orthodoxy, said in a report this month that legitimate questions exist as to whether the Asia crisis could have become so severe if institutions had respected the risks inherent in lending to emerging market economies.

The issue is expected to come up at a meeting of the IMF and World Bank in Washington on April 13 to 17 of finance ministers and central bankers from developed and developing countries.

But despite the will to do something, there is little agreement on what the problem actually is, let alone on how to fix it.

There is no consensus emerging that the system needs to be fundamentally changed, although probably a majority now feel some change is necessary, said Adam Posen of the Institute for International Economics in Washington.

More importantly, among those interested in change there is no consensus whatsoever, with definitions of the problem, let alone the solution, varying widely, he said.

Money makes the world go round

Each day, more than a trillion dollars worth of capital changes hands, in anything from foreign exchange trading to long-term loans for road building to cash deposited overseas by corporations planning to build factories.

The transfers have spurred economic growth by lowering the cost of capital, complementing domestic savings and boosting investment.

They also offer savers in developed economies investment opportunities, allowing them higher yields in countries with better growth potential than their own.

In 1996 net private capital flows into the developing world totaled $234 billion, a huge jump from $160.9 billion the year before, according to data from the OECD.

The private flows make up the vast majority of the total net resource flows in 1996, which totaled $303.1 billion.

'Animal spirits'

With such huge amounts of money washing through the world's economic system each day, a shift in investor sentiment like the one that clobbered Asian financial markets may have been inevitable because of the unpredictable factors at work.

John Maynard Keynes said these factors could not be explained and called them animal spirits to highlight their volatility.

In a recent speech in Manila, World Bank Chief Economist Joseph Stiglitz drew a parallel between Keynes's theories and Greenspan's comment that irrational exuberance had infected stock markets.

Irrational or animal, individual investment decisions that collectively affect the flows of billions of dollars can have immensely damaging effects on unprepared economies.

There can be collective irrationality even when individuals are acting rationally because there are external factors, said Stephany Griffiths-Jones, professor of economics at the University of Sussex's Institute of Development Studies.

What makes sense for you and me individually could be irrational if everybody does the same thing at once.

Excessive capital flows can lead to overvalued exchange rates, growing current account deficits and inflation.

But Griffiths-Jones argues that an even greater risk than the amount of capital on the move is the possibility that the money can flow out just as quickly as it rushed in and lead to a currency crisis with catastrophic effects.

What can be done?

No one is suggesting going back to protectionism. A summit this month of European and Asian leaders, while specifically blaming currency speculators for aggravating the crisis, reiterated their commitment to open markets.

One former central banker suggested that the international community should perhaps consider liberalizing only capital outflows initially in some developing countries rather than opening them up to capital inflows which might become excessive.

Other experts have suggested that encouraging long term inflows instead of so called hot money would help enormously.

Camdessus, for example, said Asia had started the wrong way by opening up to short-term capital flows first, describing these as the most explosive.

Others are discussing the imposition of some sort of reserve requirements on lenders investing in emerging economies. The loss of earnings from the reserves would be compensated by higher investor confidence that would attract more money.

Another idea making the rounds is for the IMF to be granted the power to go public with negative assessments of a country.

But some say such publicity could serve to spark exactly the kind of panic regulators are trying to avoid.

Public disclosure is certainly dangerous, but talking privately to regulators in lender countries may be an answer, said Stephen Harris of the Paris-based OECD.

A small tax on transactions, proposed by economist James Tobin, is considered impractical by almost everyone.

Governments couldn't introduce a tax of the sort that Tobin advocates, there would be leakages, Harris said. It would be a giant sieve.

Main problem lies in the country, not the flows

If there is consensus on anything, it is on the need for more transparency and better regulation, particularly of the financial sector, in emerging economies that open themselves to capital flows.

The Asia crisis is not a reflection simply of capital flows, said Harris. It is a reflection of bad economic flows and bad regulation.

Harris also faults authorities in the west who failed to notice the rash of suspect lending.

National authorities don't have to be involved in tracking capital flows but if their banks are loading up with debt from badly regulated countries, they have a responsibility to intervene, he said.

While some reject outright the idea of any intervention in the market and say the authorities could never get the right balance between freedom and regulation, others warn that failure to act could have serious consequences.

If the creditor countries don't put some constraints on their lenders we're going to face more crises, said Jerome Levinson, professor of international law at American University in Washington.

In the meantime, he said, We're living in a fool's paradise.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:27
Donald__A (@Aurator) ID#26793:
Your post at 204AM this morning says you are looking for a spike to tell you the top is in. Let me offer the following:

Dow/Gold Ratio on January 23, 1998, was 25.67 at the close. On March 23, 1998, the close was 30.54. That is a astounding gain of 4.87 ounces over 38 trading days, a gain of 19%!

In the 13 days from March 20th we have dropped to 28.78 over 13 trading days, a drop of 5.8%. Yesterday was the first setback but it sure looks spikey on the chart.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:27
STUDIO.R (@T#1....bring to the light.......) ID#288369:
the name upon the recording....for my eyes have weakened from the strain.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:21
tolerant1 (Studio_R - Hmmmmmmm, all that is a peach may not be Allman, Hmmmmm) ID#31868:
I must tell you I wear today the first of two rings to be hammered into hollow rounds. Hmmmmmmmm...two ounces of gold in the first, two ounces of platinum in the second.

I wear my heart on my sleeve and my financial beliefs on my fingers.

Lest you think I forgot about silver, I say nay, I have a thumb ring of silver that could be used for a door jam. But that word reminds me of the Summer and Georgia and a black and white album cover with lots of foot lockers filled to the brim with wires and electrical devices.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:14
tolerant1 (Aragorn III - Hmmmmmmmm...The last sentence...16:30 Apr-9 got me thinking...) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Einstein: There are two different conceptions about the nature of the universe – the world as a unity dependent on humanity, and the world as reality independent of the human factor.

Tagore: This world is a human world – the scientific view of it is also that of the scientific man. Therefore, the world apart from us does not exist; it is a relative world, depending for its reality upon our consciousness.

Einstein: Truth, then, or beauty, is not independent of man?

Tagore: No.

Einstein: If there were no human beings any more. The Apollo Belvedere no longer would be beautiful?

Tagore: No.

Einstein: I agree with regard to this conception of beauty, but not with regard to truth.

Tagore: Why not? Truth is realized through men.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:13
LGB (@ Prometheus...Skeptical) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thank you. It's very refreshing to see a post from someone who understands both my motives, and my rationale for posting the way I do. I read the Skeptical Inquirer every month, and find it an EXCELLENT publication in teaching some of the basics of logical thought.

The folks who most vociferously attack me here, over this whole ANOTHER debacle, have demonstrated their mindset with the reverential fawning, cult disciple behaviour, that you would expect from those who have been conditioned to allow someone else to do their thinking for them. These folks would have made great Nazi's or Bolshevik's don't you think? Just give me a guru who's every word I can fawn over so that I don't need to think too hard on my own......

In any case, thanks for understanding the difference between mindless attack, and critical dissent for the sake of separating fact from fantasy.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:12
STUDIO.R ( to this gold/silver partial backing of the dollar.....) ID#288369:
I'm guessin' 1:20.....based merely on the Silver Dollar ( approx. 1oz ) and the $20 Gold Piece ( the Eagle flies on Friday....from Stormy Monday Blues as performed brilliantly by Bobby Blue Bland...know him personally ( er, shook his hand ) ) .....

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:06
lenaxe (Gold backing for the Euro should be reasonably high...) ID#263184:
Copyright © 1998 lenaxe All rights reserved
after all, the world is already awash in weak to very weak currencies. Why would we need another brand of wallpaper to hang?. The only accepted way to tell the world that the currency is strong ( THAT I KNOW ABOUT ) is by backing it strongly with gold. Then the Euro could be pointed to as a strong currency and possibly be worthy of being considered as competition for the dollar as a reserve currency. Otherwise, if it doesn't have strong backing and acknowledged as such by the world, it will likely tend to have the strength of one of the weakest links, like the Italian Lira. Then the only real major use for it would be at the toll booths and the newspaper stands.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:04
Prometheus (@LGB) ID#210235:
Skeptical Inquirer, July/Aug 95 How to Sell a Pseudoscience, #3, 4, 5, 9.
Feeling a little scorched this morning? I understand. It is a hotseat you have chosen for yourself.

Apologies to all. The article is not on their website and is much too long to copy.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:02
EB (@ the Masters...) ID#22956:
¡¡¡GO FREDDY!!! Augusta

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 11:00
STUDIO.R (@This is a classroom of teachers taught by itself.....) ID#288369:
Sooner or later, they all come back....why not? all know there's plenty of green grass here at Kitco. Relax and Graze awhile.....

Happy Birthday Kitco!!!! and mike stellar....

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:59
EB (Auric....and the wink museum) ID#22956:
YES. Below are London fix prices as emailed to me by Bart:

April 09, 1998 - London Fix Prices

AM Gold 308.35
PM Gold 307.65

¡Öh M¥! We have ANOTHER winner. I gotta tell ya' Auric, I thought that gold would be much lower by today. I do, however, still believe that it will go lower and the fact that it hasn't is NOT bullish for gold. imo. No news ( for gold ) is bad news ( for gold ) .
Now, where to make the donation? I don't know. I will let you make the call. Write the check to whoever you want....or........yes.........or........send ANOTHER wink to the museum. I collect 'em. uh huh. ;- ) do the victory dance..... ( a second time ) .
Éßstillhumble ( ? )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:58
Prometheus (@223) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You wish to boycott the one who has apologized?

Liberty ( LGB @ Home ) ID#263379:
Copyright © 1998 Liberty/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is LGB, on my home account. I wish to clarify, for the record, that it has never been my intent to drive ANOTHER from the site, or
to in any way question his right to post, and his appreciators rights to analyze his posts. We have a broad and diverse group.

My critical posts re ANOTHER, as all know quite well, have never been directed to him, or directed specifically at him, but more a
counterpoint to those who seem to be falling into cultlike behaviour. A counterpoint and different perspective has been my commentary, as
I try and provide on other topics as well.

As far as including gross insults in my posts, or ad hominim attacks, one need only read posts from the likes of PHinLA, Tolerant, et al, to
see a genuine example of what crosses much further over the line than anything I've ever written.

However, realizing that I have oft been rightly accused of being egotistical, contentious, and adversarial in my presentation, I apologize to
ANOTHER, for any insults or questions re his sincerity, motives, etc. On a forum like this, such things are difficult to ascertain. Like many,
I believe that it's ideas that are subject to scrutiny, not individuals.

For those who appreciate ANOTHER's writings, JTF and Allen specifically, apologies as well. I consider JTF and Allen, excellent
examples of class and civil conduct. Areas I freely admit need work in my Internet personality style. ( You'd never know me if you met
me in real life.... so civil and friendly it's almost disgusting! )


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:55
tolerant1 (the EURO is garbage, nothing more than a partial promise...) ID#31868:
100% gold and silver...America will have to lead the way...the entire banking framework of the world is based on European tradition and an evil, sick, twisted wish by a miniscule percentage of humanity to enslave the decent, honest free men and women the world over.

Nothing less than 100% - nothing...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:47
themissinglink (Gold Backing) ID#373403:
When we say 15%-30% of the ECU will be backed by gold, are we talking about the percentage of total money supply or the proportion of reserves being hel as gold?

Lets say $1ECU trillion were issued. Would $300 billion in gold be held? Or would it be 30% of, say a 12% reserve requirement, so 30% of $ECU120 billion or $36 billion worth of gold.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:46
tolerant1 (suspicious) ID#31868:
You should have mail...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:39
Midas__A (In North America, the disparity between what is spoken and what it means is huge) ID#340459:
The Govt is out for a Tax grab of half a trillion dollars from tobacco addicted American smokers in the guise of teenage smoking problem.

More deaths and violence can be attributed to Alcohol than Cigarettes.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:30
223 (Tobacco Settlement falls through (& BOYCOTT LGB!!!)) ID#26669:
Copyright © 1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Several news articles discuss the breakdown of negotiations regarding the proposed federal tobacco lawsuit settlement. IMHO some talking points are 1 ) if resettlement occurs inflationary and/or recessionary factors could mushroom as tobacco conglomerates also are heavily involved in the prepared foods industry and TRUCKING industry 2 ) the presidents new social spending plans are at risk so there will be a p.r. effort aimed at the plebs probably including alcohol, guns, MINING, chemical industry oil industry 3 ) constitutional issues regarding power of federal government versus industry blocks are yet to be fully defined but it appears that both sides of the aisle are involved in this attempted extension of federal powers 4 ) domino effect of actual settlement would put other hazardous product or polluting industries at risk including alcohol, firearms, oil, chemical and MINING industries 5 ) interesting basic shift of underlying power occurring as both US and European powerbases since 1600's have been keyed to tobacco so will ( in US predominantly Liberal/Democratic ) cocaine empires take over?

The upshot of all this is that I'm going to give further weight to the idea of rolling over more of my US mining stocks to Canadian and South African issues.

All IMHO of course. Just ignorant musings, no facts. Ain't no rokit skintiss heer!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:28
Suspicious (Tolerant1 ) ID#285121:
If my companies books were like the Fed's I'd be in jail. Tried to e-mail you tolerant. Hotmail not a gateway? Try me if you want at

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:25
Midas__A (@a.j. I believe that $650 billion was withdrawn from Social security pot as Operating expenses to ) ID#340459:
flaunt these Government Budget Surpluses..

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:21
Midas__A (Happy Easter to all, Fava at LBME has projected a probable 20% Gold holding for Euro, Does anyone) ID#340459:
Copyright © 1998 Midas__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
know or can find out what the current gold holdings of European CB's are and which ones may be short. The ones who are short would have to buy from CB's that have more and Seller's wouldnt give it up cheaply at that juncture. Canada, Australia, NZ, Hong Kong, Japan etc. would also have to maintain a like percentage in comparision to Euro to show that their paper is also firm and backed by Gold. Canada has already sold too much Gold and the C$'s consistent downtrend could be a factor directly related to these gold sales. If someone can calculate the current European CB's gold holdings in percentage terms to the paper floating currencies and arrive at shortage / surplus, we may be able to prudently forecast the uptrend / downtrend in coming months.

The current global gold demand / supply has not been reflected in gold prices due to paper derivatives. But EU requirements would change this as CB's that are lending/leasing Gold today may have to change / stop this to maintain the required percentage. In a world that thrives on credit and ever expanding money supply would also have to factor in this expansion while maintaining the required ratio.

Any comments on above logic ?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:20
a.j. (Use of the ~ tilde ~ in spanish words.) ID#257136:
Copyright © 1998 a.j./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
AZTEC: Please don't take offense at this. It is my belief that precision in verbiage is a positive in communication.
Here's how to make the ~ tilde~ over the n.

Type your word to the point where the tilde~ is required; hold down on alt key and while holding it, type on calculator keyboard the numbers 164.
, Lo and Behold: An enyay ! Spanish pronunciation of the n with the tilde.
ñ as in mañana or sueños,etc.
Makes your prose look and read much more precisely than without the ~tilde~!
Muchas Gracias por su atencion, Hermano!! Buen Dia!! Marcha El oro!!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:08
tolerant1 (And this is reporTED as the truth, ah, ha, ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Budget surplus could top $50 billion as economy surges
Copyright © 1998
Copyright © 1998 Reuters News Service

WASHINGTON ( April 10, 1998 00:37 a.m. EDT ) - The surging U.S. economy is likely to push the federal budget surplus to at least $50 billion in fiscal year 1998, the Washington Post reported on Friday.

The newspaper, which based the $50 billion estimate on an internal Federal Reserve projection, also cited estimates by Wall Street analysts that the total budget surplus could soar to $75 billion or more if current spending and revenue trends continued.

The 1997 budget deficit was $22.6 billion, more than $100 billion lower than was projected at this time a year ago, and far less than the $290.4 billion deficit posted in fiscal 1992.

The Clinton administration earlier this year hailed official forecasts for a budget surplus of about $10 billion in the fiscal year ending September 30. It would be the first time since 1969 that the government spent less money than it took in.

The Post did not explain how it obtained the internal Fed projections.

But it noted that budget analysts were sharply raising their estimates of the expected surplus because of continued strong economic growth and booming financial markets.

Gene Sperling, chairman of Clinton's National Economic Council, told the paper the projections were still uncertain.

Until you get the key months like April, I don't think anybody knows for sure. Some of the numbers being thrown around seem quite optimistic in a world in which it is better to be conservative, he was quoted as saying.

Whatever the surplus turns out to be, our message is, we shouldn't turn our back on our fiscal discipline or drain a penny from the surplus until we fix Social Security, he said.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:07
Auric (An Act of Selfless Generosity) ID#255151:

In honor of two important birthdays, Mike Sheller and Kitco, I have decided to donate $50 to the construction of a new Gold Museum. This largesse will be bestowed to the fine offices of the EB Foundation. Go Gold!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 10:06
ROR (TED) ID#35767:
Mernin' Please give us wisdom like Another

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:57
tolerant1 (HenryD - rethink this...) ID#31868:
At the are giving up on yourself...aside from that, you must agree that when you walk away you not only rob yourself, but others.

Go have a beer, a few shots of tequila...rethink this...

And then jump back in with both feet to the human rolodex that is Kitco.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:54
Ted (forget the weather report) ID#330175:
my computer is stoopid too~~~~~~

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:53
Ted (Cape Breton weather forcast) ID#330175:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:51
Leland (History Doesn't Repeat Exactly, But Here's The One That Started The 1929 Crash) ID#31876:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:48
Ridgerunner (Time for reflection...) ID#409404:
Copyright © 1998 Ridgerunner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Having been a constant lurker and infrequent contributor to this forum for over a year now, it seems to me that Kitco's 2nd birthday is a good opportunity for all of us to pause and reflect on the purpose of this forum and how we each interact in it.

I have appreciated the insightful posts of many Kitcoites who have provided fact-based opinions on both/several sides of precious metals issues.

I have NOT appreciated the cat fights between egomaniacs bent on one-upmanship. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE! Surely this forum should serve as an intellectual exchange of ideas, and NOT as a venue for the insecure, childish rantings of a selfish few who run off those with whom they disagree.

Finally, as much as I dislike his style, LGB has a point about the cliches used here as a substitute for new ideas. If the powers that be and similar phrases were dropped from the text of most posts, Bart's bandwidth requirements would be cut in half. I challenge all Kitcoites, myself i

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:47
(ANOTHER wisdom loss) ID#152163:
Copyright © 1998 /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I am an older student of the wisdom offered by ANOTHER. I present to you some thoughts and inspiring words to this master.

Would a humble great teacher abandon his students and followers along the journey through the world of fasinating knowledge and thought.
Some have studied hard, believed and invested in the words of ANOTHER.
Collective forward information presented by many always presents disagreement and debate.
Standing strong while offering this knowledge during the process is a measure of courage and wisdom.

Mr. ANOTHER, your words have been measured, debated and appreciated, this unfolding gold/oil/world drama is just starting and what is needed is the class instructor.....

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:41
Ted (Donald and 'Good-Friday' in Cape Breton) ID#330175:
Snowin like a SOB here~~~~~~~~

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:29
MoReGoLd (@HenryD ) ID#348129:
Henry, don't let idiots drive you from the place you want to be.
Basically these idiots know full well who they are ( they have been told many times to their face ) , but are just unable to help themselves.
These are just troubled individuals with many deep psychological problems that you or I cannot help or change.
They vent their aggressions on any forums they can access.
Only they can help themselves and mend their ways.
They deserve nothing more than to be ignored.........

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:28
tolerant1 (Mr. Mick) ID#31868:
And a Happy Easter to you as well.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:20
MoReGoLd (@LGB: I hope you are not as annoying to your family (if you have one) as you are to the KITCo Family) ID#348129:
Copyright © 1998 MoReGoLd/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Thu Apr 09 1998 19:22
Copyright © 1998 ANOTHER/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Mr. LGB,

I did come to Kitco with only my THOUGHTS to share. This thinking was offered to all and is as free as the wind. Even as my writings were discussed by many, I did never find you to be a fraud or a hoxier, as your words were offered with good intent. Please, find my words of record that were spoken against you, and show them, here?

I find not the reason for your purpose of speech! It offers a nature of confrontation and disruption for persons of simple ways and thoughts, such as I. As you have your direction for life, I have a purpose in life.

I wish you the blessing, to walk tall with wealth, for all your days, that one may complete the journey that is given for all to travel. I do instruct another to send my thoughts where ears do not bite!

Good Luck!

Thank You

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:18
a.j. (STOLEN from an Arkansas webtalk forum.) ID#257136:
Patriots don't pay their taxes cheerfully, they pay
them grudgingly. Even under the best of circumstances,
good Americans ought to bridle at Washington's taxes -
just as their forefathers bridled at Britain's sugar
tax and stamp tax. Resistance to taxes is a hallmark
of our national character...Your ancestors raised up
arms to save themselves from the tax collectors. The
least you can do is raise your voice.
--Jeff Jacoby, Boston Globe
I don't recall exactly who Jacoby is, but he's A-O.K.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:13
Leland (Reality Check Time - What's Really Going On In Asia) ID#31876:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:01
Mr. Mick (Lock&Lode - your partial meltdown scenario is very very plausible........) ID#345321:
total meltdown would mean anarchy, and IMHO the powers that be don't want that, they just want to move people in the proper direction - toward electronic currencies and away from tangible money.
Your analysis is very good.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 09:00
HenryD (*** A New Year's Beginning Marks The Departure Of ANOTHER ***) ID#36156:

What a shame. I mean, what was the point of all this?

With ANOTHER's departure goes a piece of our identity, our uniqueness, our objectivity...

At any rate, Happy Birthday KITCO, and Godspeed.

Bart; You can delete my two handles from your database:


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:56
Leland (This One Will Make Your Gold Stash a Bright Idea) ID#31876:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:50
Suspicious (IMF Funds / another lie ! ) ID#285121:
The Bubba Administration had me believing that the U.S. taxpayer contributed 18% of IMF funds. It is actually 52% of usable funds.
This kinda reminds me of a balanced budget that grows the debt by
78 billion in four months.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:49
Donald__A (@Ted) ID#26793:
Heavy downpours, thunder and lightning last night. Heading you way as Snow? Rain?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:21
HighRise (Gold & Currencies) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

LONDON ( AP ) - The dollar was mixed in thin trading in Italy, one of the few European markets open on Good Friday. Bullion markets in London and Zurich were closed.

Dollar rates in Milan compared with late Thursday's rates in London:

- 1.8209 German marks, up from 1.8195

- 128.96 Japanese yen, down from 130.10

- 1.5131 Swiss francs, up from 1.5124

- 6.1046 French francs, up from 6.0992

- 2.0457 Dutch guilders, down from 2.0484

- 1,799.5 Italian lire, up from 1,797.2

- 1.4252 Canadian dollars, up from 1.4245

The British pound was quoted at $1.6743, up from $1.6724 late Thursday.

In Hong Kong, gold rose 90 cents to close at $309.25 bid.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:17
ForkLift__A (Gold) ID#324266:
Last night my children reminded be of another source of gold: And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. Luke 6:31

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:17
Donald__A (Israel says Iran has obtained Russian nuclear weapons; U.S. says report is not true.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:11
Ted (Mr Mick...& Easter-Good(?) Friday) ID#330175:
Bah humbug ( I want that stock ticker,damn it! )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:10
Junior (PGM's from Russia with Love) ID#248180:
Russia Inches Closer to Platinum Group Metals Export

MOSCOW -- ( Reuters ) Russian President Boris Yeltsin has signed a decree outlining 1998 export quota allowances for platinum group metals ( PGM ) , an official at the Finance Ministry said on Thursday.

But a separate government order was still needed before long-delayed PGM exports could begin, the official added.

The decree has been signed by the President, I believe last weekend, said the official from the ministry's precious metals and stones department.

But the government must also sign an order ( before exports can begin ) , he added. We will probably have to wait until the new government is formed for that.

Russian politics have been in a state of flux since Yeltsin sacked his entire Cabinet last month. The Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, will vote on Friday whether to endorse Yeltsin's nominee for prime minister, Sergei Kiriyenko.

If the house votes in favor, Kiriyenko automatically becomes prime minister, and Yeltsin, after consulting the new premier, can formally appoint government ministers.

Political turmoil was blamed last year for prolonged delays in PGM exports. They did not begin until the second half of the year, pushing prices of platinum and palladium sharply higher.

The markets have also surged this year on Russian delays.

Russia supplies around 60 percent of the world's palladium demand and one fifth of its platinum needs.

Platinum and palladium are rare white metals used in a range of applications from jewelry to catalytic converters in car engines.

Precious metal trade sources have speculated that Russia may push through the government order outlining quotas for 1998 to coincide with Yeltsin's planned visit to Japan starting on April 18.

Japan is one of the world's biggest consumers of platinum and palladium.

Almazjuvelirexport, Russia's sole export agent of PGMs, was not immediately available for comment on Thursday. (   ( c )  1998 Reuters )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:10
HighRise (Test) ID#401460:

Kitco seems to be working now.

Thanks Bart - Great Site


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:08
Junior (@Blessed Passover, Happy Easter, Peace at the Haaj for Muslins) ID#248180:
I wish all posters a peaceful week of rememberance and peacefull celebrations. HE HAS RISEN, YES, TRULY HE HAS RISEN! God bless and keep you and yours. May everyone prosper and enter the city where the streets are paved in gold.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:06
Donald__A (Israel proposes currency reforms) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 08:05
Mr. Mick (To all Kitcoites - Have a Happy Easter, (even you, Ted).........) ID#345321:
Donald, thanks again for the news posts. God bless us all.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:55
Donald__A (S&P says Japan MOF is vastly under-reporting the amount of bad loans.) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:54
Ted (Shipwrecks are fascinating) ID#330175:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:47
Donald__A (Oil glut continues in spite of OPEC cutbacks. Excess now at 1.5 million BPD) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:37
iAtolU (Happy Easter to Kitco & All) ID#420116:

Freedom to choose is the most perfect gift, and the most horrible curse. You are who you've chosen to be. You can be who you choose to be. May you be proud of the choices you make today.

Thanks for all the great posts.

- A.I.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:37
Donald__A (Estimates on cost of yen support vary from $3 to $10 billion dollars Friday) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:32
Donald__A (Taiwan stocks down 1.87% on intraday tech sector reversal and selloff) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:28
Donald__A (Silver price dependent upon Buffett and India) ID#26793:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:16
Ted (I am STOOPID) ID#330175:
aot=ALOT you moron ( Good Friday or NOT )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:14
Ted (Poorboys & AK-47's---bullet-proof vests-OJ knives) ID#330175:
won't need em on Swans Island----there is aot more crime and warped behavoir in good ole Cape Breton....Loonie still lookin sick~~~~~

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 07:05
Ted (What's the 'big-deal' with Good(?) Friday) ID#330175:
I hate three day weekends!---Happy B-Day Mike!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 06:38
Mike Sheller (Happy Birthday Kitco) ID#347447:
Yes, my birthday was yesterday, but as John the Baptist said, One who is Greater comes after me...that would be Kitco itself, on April 10th. Today. Also one very auracious poster who will not be named was born on April 10th as well. Happy Birthday Kitco. And a blessed Easter and Passover to all who observe, celebrate, or hold a place in their heart for these holy days. Peace gang.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 06:02
Hedgehog (Alabama Sweet home Alabama oh sh!t ) ID#39828:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Friday 10 April, 1998 ( 6:41pm AEST )

US President Bill Clinton has declared parts of Alabama and
Georgia disaster areas, after a tornado packing winds of up to
400 kilometres an hour ripped through the two states, leaving
at least 38 people dead.

A helicopter with a sensor to detect body heat has been flown
in to help find the dead and alive, and rescuers are going
from one wrecked house to the next, saying they'll continue
to look for victims through the night until they're confident
everyone is accounted for.

Violent weather from the same storm system has also killed
five people in Georgia and one in Mississippi.

Return to the World News Menu

plus from the Asia Pacific Region in Indonesian, Chinese and Tok Pisin

© 1998 Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Fri Apr 10 19:00:00 1998 ( AEST )

AEST = Australian Eastern Standard Time bama

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 05:54
Hedgehog (James) ID#39828:
No it dont. Sarah Maclaughlin...Working on a mystery Leonard
Cohen, B.T.O., .......talented dudes you Canadians.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 05:19
James (Incongruous@Equity & AU mkts) ID#252150:
As I drove home tonight in Victoria B.C., after a nice dinner with friends, I listened to the top Country & Western song in the U.S. by a female singer. That singer's name is Shania Twain, a Canadian girl who is from northern Ontario. How the top Country & Western singer in the U.S. could originate from the wilds of northern Ontario, makes about as much sense as the way the equity & AU mkts have been performing over the last several years.
They don't make any sense, & those that try to use logic to understand them are doomed.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 05:09
Jack (IF? OR BURN BABY BURN) ID#252127:

If as some posters are saying, that Anothers high price prediction is being used by......the one, the only UBS hack Andy Smith to make gold bugs look bad, then, I say that Another has someone running scared.
While $30000 is a bit high, we can, without a doubt say that $300 is way to low and one must fight fire with fire.
I respect you MR. ANOTHER

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 04:48
HighRise (Kitco Problems) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

I have been having some major problems accessing the Kitco sites. They won't open or take a long time to open. And when they do, many times they do not update or have old information.

I have e-mailed Bart and he has responded, asking which pages. It seems to be all.

I have no other problem with other URLs.

Please post here if you are having or had any problems.

The Gold graph is flat line I assume that means the markets are not open?

I have had the graph stop updating just before the NY closing and remain disfunctional until 4am?

Any notes or comments would be appreciated.

Thank You,


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 04:47
Jack (YEN SHORTERS........BEWARE) ID#252127:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 04:24
Poorboys (Let The Sun Shine In) ID#224149:
Happy Birthday MIKE —Watch that Mars Square Neptune –Not a good time to speculate –Maybe -- Maybe not –One for Old Cole

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 04:07
Poorboys (The Right Stuff --American Landing 1998) ID#224149:
Ted –Good Morning –I know you still have a few days left in this beloved country Canada before you leave, make sure you stock up on some Guns, Knives, Especially Bulletproof vests ----Nobody likes a dead Kitco Goldbug from Canada –Don’t wave the Canadian Flag and then buy German Marks –There still hunting for EB –Remember Chretian needs that tax money ---Happy Tax Return – Oh My---just when the C$ is a buy?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 04:07
Strad Master (TWO important Birthdays!) ID#250297:
ALL: While we are wishing Kitco a Happy Birthday we should not overlook the fact that Mike Sheller - Astrologer, Financial Maven, and All-Around Nice Guy - celebrated his Birthday yesterday, April 9. He's too modest to put it up himself, so I'm doing it for him. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Hip! Hip! Hooray! for Mike and Kitco!!!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 04:04
Hedgehog (Another thought) ID#39828:
Guru's moon, all clear for landing.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:49
JOE Smith ( Huge Commodity melt down after Easter) ID#24869:
It was reported today that a spokesman from Cadbury--Schweep---,that due to unprecedented cold weather it would melt down its OLD Gold Chocolate stocks,something like 2000 ton. They then will enrobe some of the EB stocks and give them away as samples in a new promotion.

What a wonderfull idea--it would make us all happy

Happy Easter all

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:37
Jack (HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO KITCO and a prost to the guys IN THE WHITE HELICOPTERS) ID#252127:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:36
Poorboys (yes --- Morning has boken ---Cat Stevens) ID#224149:
Prometheus ( @LGB, RJ, Poorboy ---All in the same basket ---Could be very Explosive –Good Day and let the words be dynamically of pixel density.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:29
Jack (LBJ or LBG, IMO one of them full OF bull, quess who) ID#252127:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:26
aztec__A (@Sharefin) ID#255304:
I just saw your 1:58 post. Sorry I didn't respond till now. Your familiy's relationship with the sea is honorable. I too have the honor of having a captain in my geneology. He is a good man, against the haul sein nets, who earns a living some months out of the year in Alaska.

G'day sir

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:25
Tyro (@ All - A Plea to Your Sensibilities) ID#369174:
Copyright © 1998 Tyro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Copyright Kitco

I have been lurking/posting on this group for about a year. The recent spate of personal attacks, smears, and inciteful statements are disgraceful. Recently quite a number of regular posters have been so offended that they have left this forum, IMHO to our collective loss.

Please, PLEASE, EVERYONE read before posting any messages. This world is already too uncivil without our adding to the malady. Most of us feel that a return to the monetary practices of pre-Federal Reserve Act will be a benefit to mankind; perhaps a return to the polite discourse patterns of that era would also be beneficial.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:23
Jack (LBG KING OF KITCO ) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

LBG you talk IN EXTREMES; to compare gold's 79 high with
todays comparatively low price against the DOW
gymnastics from 1982 to today's high indicates that your
mission is one of self indulgence to prove yourself THE
Then you go on to compare these extremes to real estate
prices in San Francisco/SanJose during that period.

No one -that is sans LBG- knows for sure the number of
people -if any- who were caught in the poorly erected
plot showing gold as the poor investment and based on
your own selected terminal points.

What of the person who sold gold at $800 and placed his
money in short term treasuries and collected high
returns thru 1981 and then placed those funds in 30 year
treasuries collecting high interest until he sold out
after the 1987 crash and then went promptly into the
DOW, then gold in 1993/94 and back again to the DOW.
What I'm trying to point out is that there are so many
possibilities and no one knows for sure who did what and
for NOW it's best that we concentrate on the present.

Please don't degrade posters by assuming they are stupid
while spinning tales of your stock market conquests.
Degrading those whose THOUGHTS differ from you, lest
the comparashion of a flea on the elephants butt may
appropriately fit you.

Give your opinions of the markets, not your opinions of
others beliefs.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:12
Jack (LBJ KING OF KITCO ) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

LBJ you talk IN EXTREMES; to compare gold's 79 high with todays comparatively low price against the DOW gymnastics from 1982 to today's high indicates that your mission is one of self indulgence to prove yourself THE KITCO KING.
Then you go on to compare these extremes to real estate prices in San Francisco/SanJose during that period.

No one -that is sans LBJ- knows for sure the number of people -if any- who were caught in the poorly erected plot showing gold as the poor investment and based on your own selected terminal points.

What of the person who sold gold at $800 and placed his money in short term treasuries and collected high returns thru 1981 and then placed those funds in 30 year treasuries collecting high interest until he sold out after the 1987 crash and then went promptly into the DOW, then gold in 1993/94 and back again to the DOW.
What I'm trying to point out is that there are so many possibilities and no one knows for sure who did what and for NOW it's best that we concentrate on the present.

Please don't degrade posters by assuming they are stupid whike spinning tales of your stock market conquests. Degrading those whose THOUGHTS differ from you, lest the comparashion of a flea on the elephants butt may appropriately fit you.

Give your opinions of the markets, not your opinions of others beliefs.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:01
Poorboys (Man for Many Seasons) ID#224149:
PH –Ignore my posts ------I follow George Old Cole ---My big hero----About toooooo make 7 figures next week –That’s my man ----Put him in the movies ---The new Ringo Starr –Give the man a cigar ( Cuban ) If Gold goes up ---maybe a correction or consolidation or the time factor or the slant factor or the wave factor –Gold goes down ---all of the same ---but the date could change?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 03:01
Tyro (I disavow copyright on previous post.) ID#369174:
Bart - I tried to click on No one, but it didn't work.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:59
aztec__A (@Myrmidon) ID#255304:
Copyright © 1998 aztec__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I'm going to try the Harmony short term up than the Durban Deep Medium term up plan. This decision is based on ounces.
It is my opinion that portfolio investors look for the largest firms whenever they change their investment ideology. Venturing into the metals sector after such a 24 month decline might leave a lot of midtown yuppies a little leary. I believe the profitable youngsters will take a chance on the metals sector but only initially with the larger firms. Harmony is a major player so I believe any rise in gold will attract wall street attention to it's value before the others.
In the event gold continues the quest to it's rightful place as the basis of a global medium of exchange, than any firm involved in it's extraction is a nifty buy. The key is ounces and on a $ for ounce basis SA is presently the buy. Tell Mr. Cabeza de Queso that ounces are ounces. Investment in SA is merely buying gold at relative pennies on the DOW dollar.

Good evening gentlemen
Same Bat Channel, Same Bat Time!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:56
Prometheus (@LGB, RJ, Poorboy) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So I've been thinking, since Pete's scathing rhetoric flaming at me a couple of days ago, if this ANOTHER guy is a real fraud, he's going to pick up on Pete's threat to me as his best bet to disrupt the forum, and threaten to quit posting. Was Pete's threat something like And if ANOTHER stops posting because of your insults a pox on your house or some such.

And then, tonight, in his own special way, the post comes, and later becomes translated.

I awaited someone saying, like RJ a couple of weeks back, HE TOOK THE BAIT. No. Not a chance.

Last year, I was invited to a new age church service. I watched an actor spin a yarn I recognized from many previous viewings, across the country. When I expressed my opinion, it was disregarded entirely. Everyone comes to the church with Their own baggage and it is only the reflection of their experience that they see. Experience becomes an impediment, not an asset.

Consider this, my friends. Whoever this another fellow is, he is very, very good. A pro, for sure. This is not an amateur job. Furthermore, his recent,high prediction is being used in an international forum by Andy Smith to make us look like yokels.

Best wishes and hope that for the future on this schon Geburtstag.

Ed Hart used to say, All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:53
Tyro (The Contrarian's View, by Nick Chase, March 31, 1998) ID#369174:
Copyright © 1998 Tyro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So am I a visionary, or just a crackpot, for seeing perilous times shortly ahead? Time will tell, but it is already clear ( to me, if not to anybody else ) that we will have a stock-market meltdown.... we're well
past the point of no return, it's unavoidable.... and there will be serious Y2K failures in the year 2000.

QUOTES FOR THE MONTH 'I thought that my stories of interest had ended with my sentencing and being sent to the prison hospital facility here in Fort Worth. Until my friend Jim McDougal died last Saturday night. I believe that he was murdered! So does every other inmate in this prison. All 1,442 of them. So many bizarre things occurred last Saturday afternoon that the government's story doesn't hold much water. It started at 4 o'clock count when an olive drab Blackhawk helicopter with NO markings on it whatsoever, landed outside the fence of the prison. Count was completed and we went to dinner. Upon completion of our evening meal at 6:05 the helicopter took off and flew over the compound at maybe 150 ft. Hundreds of us saw this helicopter take off. At 6:10 the compound was locked down and at the same time Jim was
taken to give a urine specimen for drug testing which is very odd in itself because he's not here for drugs.... he was injected with a drug in the clinic, supposedly 'Lasix' to make him urinate, then put into
the hold by himself, where he died. It was not the right time for urinalysis; he was not taken to the right place where it's done; he shouldn't have even had a UA, and even though a doctor had previously noted on his file that he had urinary tract problems, and should not be forced to urinate on command, he was given an injection of what was said was 'Lasix,' a diuretic. He was taken to John Petersmith Hospital,
which is odd in itself, because ALL inmates are taken to Ft. Worth Osteopathic Hospital where the....[Bureau of Prisons] contract is. I am NOT a black helicopter conspiracy nut. I saw this with my own eyes close enough that I could have hit it with a rock. - Ft. Worth Federal Prison inmate, name withheld for his safety, in a March 11, 1998 letter '

I would also like to say, Happy Birthday, KITCO!!! Thanks, Bart. I cannot find the words to express my gratitude to you, and to all of my fellow Kitcoholics ( if I may be so presumptuous to include myself ) .

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:43
fundaMETAList (Hi All, Hi Tol, 3 Cheers for EJ, Happy Birthday Kitco...) ID#341214:
Copyright © 1998 fundaMETAList/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
EJ: Good form at your 00:31. I hope others will give serious consideration to your words in the first paragraph and be encouraged to take a closer look at Y2K.

Now that you've taken that first step, what's next?

All: Back in January or thereabouts I was postulating on the subject of a Federal programmer draft. Did you catch the recent news items where someone in the GAO ( I think ) was thinking outloud on that very subject. If any of you printed off the Programmer Draft Executive Order that I did you just might get a chance to compare it to Clinton's sometime in the next year. Mine is dated April 15, 1999. Tick, tick, tick...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:40
John Disney__A (Well there you go) ID#24135:
for Salty
Can TWO unlicensed soothsayers be
WRONG simultaniously.
Unthinkable.. Id sell more except
the markets are closed.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:28
mozel (@Preacher @Bart @All) ID#153102:
@Preacher Give us PARABLES.

@Bart Happy birthday to your creation. You have the most honorable title of Patron. Great works require great patrons and Kitco is a great work.

@All Now soon upon us is another anniversary of the resurrection of the messenger who delivered to mankind THE GOLDEN RULE. Joyful is the day.

My thanks to all of you most extraordinary individuals for sharing your knowledge and insight. G'night, pards, mates, cousins, brothers, et. al.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:24
aurator (Kitco Birthday Jubilee) ID#257148:
If agreement to forgive is all that is required, you have mine.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:23
Tyro (Aztec) ID#369174:
see Date: Thu Apr 09 1998 19:22

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:21
PH in LA () ID#225408:

If you aspire to draw me into debate, you will have to do two things first:

1. Think of something to say.

2. Learn to say it so it can be understood.

Failing to do both of the above will result in my continuing to ignore you.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:21
Myrmidon (@ aztec) ID#339212:

Hot? We haven't seen anything yet.

Which of the three SA golds have you decided to buy?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:20
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Aurator -- It CAN be done if the people 'allow/will' it to be done.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:18
Tyro (Is the Sleeping Tiger finally starting to stir?) ID#369174:
Copyright © 1998 Tyro/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
On Tuesday, I attended my local voting precinct party caucus. ( For those unfamiliar with one way that the US has for selecting candidates, the voters of an prescribed area ( precinct ) belonging to one political party ( democrats, republicans, etc. ) meet to select representatives to attend county and state caucuses/conventions to vote on who will be on the ballot in the primary election. Usually one, two or three candidates are selected. The primary election narrows the slate down to one candidate for each party, who then are the candidates for the general election in November.

Anyway, my precinct probably has a few hundred voters from my party. Only about a dozen people showed up for this caucus.

In addition to selecting 'electors' for the party conventions, the precinct can develop five position statements that will be used to develop the 'party planks' for local and state conventions. I suggested one supporting the second amendment ( the right to keep and bear arms ) . What was surprising to me that when I suggested that We demand that elected representatives support the 2nd Amendment and the right of the People to keep and bear arms, everyone there emphatically supported the word demand. People are getting fed up. Granted, 12 out of a few hundred is not a lot, but the attitude was different from the caucus I attend a couple of years ago. Palpable. Now if only I had suggested returning to lawful, constitutional money. Hmmmmm, maybe next year won't be too late.

Oh yeah, I don't care, I bought more. Go gold.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:07
aurator (tabula rasa) ID#257148:
Now that's a good idea, declare a jubilee, forgiveness of past hurts, wipe the slate clean and start again.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:06
sharefin (Suharto rules - okay) ID#284255:

Suharto underlines his credentials for power
In politics, there are gentlemen and there are players. For the most part, Asia's political class buckled under the stress of collapsing financial markets, signing over their economies to the International Monetary Fund.

That might have been the rational, even decent, thing to do, but it has probably ensured the death of ruling political-bureaucratic elites across the region. In the face of Western economic might and apparent intellectual supremacy, long strident Asian politicians blinked first and did as they were told.

An impoverished Indonesia indiscriminately stripping natural resources for hard currency is hardly a happy prospect for its neighbours.

Yet, in the game of politics, winning is what counts. On that score, Mr Suharto assuredly ranks as a player.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:06
aztec__A (@Myrmidon) ID#255304:
No, I'm just a small frog in a very large and dirty pond. Fortunately I've had the pleasure of living with and learning from both the Scottish and English. Sorry to mislead but I find some of their vernacular more enjoable than the US options.

Kind of hot today. Huh?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:04
aurator (a little bird told me) ID#257148:
Son of Crusty
We are in agreement. I am looking for a serious sharp spike before I say this worm has turned.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:04
mozel (@T1 @Eldorado) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@T Tolerance of evil is no virtue as you know. Neither is suicide. Outlive the wicked.

P.S. LGB offended my sensibilities, too.
P.P.S. The overhang of overcapacity, the child of greedy fiat lending, can be erased with the magic of bankruptcy healed with more lending on the good faith and credit of the host country government. Then the factories can carry on at lower price levels. As Eldorado puts it, so long as there is confidence in the con, the game goes on. When the jingle of coin breaks the spell cast by the magic of compund interest on paper, the jig is up. Harmoniums. Rangiums. Durbaniums. First people notice the debt can never be repaid. Then people notice the interest is taxation. Then doubt begins that the interest can be paid. Then, the ears open to the jingle of coin.

@E As Kipling put it, East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 02:03
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Before I retire for the evening, and perhaps for the whole day from here, I do want to wish this KITCO forum a happy birthday. Thanks Bart! I believe, in spite of the various food fights that have evolved/revolved here, that a lot of good information has been disseminated here. And For any and all that I have, or may have, 'slighted' here, I offer my humblest apologies. Let a new year start afresh!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:59
John Disney__A ( Who am I to say ) ID#24135:
For tsclaw...
You ask me how low I think gold
will go in this correction
These questions are better directed
to Bernatz XII who has direct lines of
communication to the BIG GUY.
My son ( ex unlicensed soothsayer in
past life who came to sticky end ) predicts
a retest of 275 low and maybe a BREACH.
... this based on the dreaded waves of
monsiour elliot.. I dont believe it but
I have very weak occult connections.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:59
aztec__A (@ J Disney) ID#255304:
That's the beauty of a hobby. I can sit for the long term or surf the short term waves. My objectives sit 6 years out. Someone on this forum stated that it seems as though gold takes 10 steps forward and 9 steps backward. I'll be watching!

What is all this chatter about ANOTHER's post. When did he post today?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:58
sharefin (What's in a name?) ID#284255:

A Geordie was a name of a group of people who came from a region around the SW? of London.

The name means worker of the land

We named our oldest boy 'Jordy'
In honour of this
As I had always lived far from home
Working on the sea as a fisherman.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:54
Myrmidon (@ AZTEC) ID#339212:

a JORDIE is a person who was born in Northern England ( UK ) . I thought that your statement me dad sounded British. This expression of me substituting my is common in that part of the world.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:52
sharefin (More - from a Japanese perspective ) ID#284255:
East Asian Problems and Prospects
The Importance of Financial Self-Governance
Observing the failure of Japan's financial system and the framework of the policy responses to it last November and December, I concluded that the only solution is to refocus on self-governance, the underlying principle of democracy. The course of developments from the emergence of the speculative bubbles in the latter part of the 1980s through the prolonged postbubble stagnancy of the 1990s may be termed a defeat for the Japanese economy
Lessons of the Southeast Asian Meltdown
Will Japan Trigger the Next Crash?
The initial trigger for the simultaneous decline in world share prices this past October was the collapse of the Hong Kong stock market. The world's bourses are still in dangerous waters, and another simultaneous plunge could come at any moment. In fact, the possibility is increasing rather than decreasing. It is by no means certain that the next crash will be triggered by Hong Kong or one of the so-called emerging markets. In fact, there is an extremely strong possibility that Japan, the fragility of its financial system revealed by the failure of Hokkaidô Takushoku Bank and Yamaichi Securities, will be the source.
A New Backlash Against American Influence
The Asian Crisis and the IMF's Medicine

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:50
aztec__A (@Myrmidon) ID#255304:
Define a JORDIE

Maybe this dates me.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:50
John Disney__A (Notes on Harmony) ID#24135:
For aztec.
dont the fooled by low volume on
Harmony ADR in USA. volume here is
HEAVY .. at least half a mill a day
for a stock that usually does that in
a month. Institutions plus Europe is
what I figure. Volume on drooy and
rangy not really up there yet.
Be cautious though as gold has lost
lots of momentum and would be sufferring
had we not had a weak $ ( which blind
sided the shorts .. we would be close
to 300$ except for sudden yen strength )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:49
Poorboys (. Sorry Bart ---Once A month –It’s my Period) ID#224149:
How can one as Brain Dead As Pete and PH from LA post on this Site ---Doctors Permission Obviously. ----Never have I seen Idiots survive the foam of ideological thoughts ---The new generation of “Pack of Idiots “Imbeciles. Maybe the wrong ideologue has been crucified this Good Friday. Another = Depraved Peasantry with no hope.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:49
Myrmidon (@ all) ID#339212:


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:48
Myrmidon (@ PREACHER) ID#339212:

By all means Mr. Preacher, you post as THOUGHTS
and I will post as SECONDTHOUGHTS

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:47
telecaster (*ouch*) ID#30970:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:45
telecaster (taiwan) ID#30970:
Sharefin - Thanks for the links. They seem extremely slow to access right now, but the news from Taiwan sounds especially bad for the prospects of Asian recovery. Capital will continue to flow into the US until Asia becames safe again.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:45
telecaster (taiwan) ID#30970:
Sharefin - Thanks for the links. They seem extremely slow to access right now, but the news from Taiwan sounds especially bad for the prospects of Asian recovery. Capital will continue to flow into the US as long until Asia becames safe again.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:45
Preacher (THOUGHTS) ID#225273:
You guys are very interesting, but I have to go to bed.
One question, if ANOTHER stops posting, which I hope he won't, can I start titling my posts THOUGHTS?

Preacher ( THOUGHTS )

I like it, yes?

The Preacher

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:42
John Disney__A (Whats goin on here) ID#24135:
Harmony is NOW trying to buy EVANDER .. Where
are they getting the MONEY .. It all started when
they built their refinery.. then their fabrication
plant. I think these guys are pulling the old
fractional reserve krugerand banking scam .. you
know how it goes .. make one krugerand .. hold it
as reserve .. then lend yourself 5 krugerands..
then hold those .. lend yourself 5 more ..
compound krugerands ... where will it end

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:42
Myrmidon (@ aztec) ID#339212:

Try to convince CHEESESPREAD on those stocks too! ( HGMCY, DROOY, RANGY ) .

Are you a JORDIE?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:37
aztec__A (@Gracias Senior Disney) ID#255304:
Copyright © 1998 aztec__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I sincerely appreciate and respect your 4/9 am response.
I was online when the G-Eagle report was published. That data made my final purchase decision. Your collective efforts were noticed.

As for the near future. Your advise on Harmony @ less than $5 in and 7.75 out appears sound. Harmony has been moving up in a flat environment. Granted the volume is low but based on the prior sell off I agree it will move much more quickly in a small up swing than Drooy or Rangy. I'll watch with margarita and lime in hand for the crossing of the Drooy - Harmony paths. At that point I'll sqeeeez the lime and salt the glass and sell.
On a related note. Seems to me this forum is kind of a dichotomy in a way, a forbidden fruit if you will. Sort of an unpopular idea that everyone knows is true but is afraid to publically support.
Tell Farfel I know a lot of chaps playing golf with me dad who have and are buying more!
When are we going to hear about the Kitco cornering of the Comex!

Patron Silver ( Plata ) , Controy, Lemon Juice, Fresh Lime, Salt.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:35
2BR02B? (@telecaster/A.Smith) ID#266105:

Nice to be framous.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:33
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
mozel -- You certainly have a way of putting concise 'meaning' into some simple statements! Maaaaaaannnnnnnn!!!! How right you are! It'll be 'interesting' to see what their cultural decision becomes! I suspect you will be found to be correct about the final 'assessment'.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:32
oris (Another) ID#238422:
Sir, if it is true, as some posters suggested, that
you intend to quit posting, it would be a disappointment
for many, including myself. Although I got some doubts
regarding some of your thoughts, some of your other
thoughts are very interesting and very educating. You will
come back soon, yes? Thank you.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:29
sharefin (More good reads) ID#284255:
The other articles at that site are good for a read too:
Impotence-cure e-mail floods hijacked HK address
A local businessman has received more than half a million junk e-mail messages after an impotence cures salesman hijacked his Internet address.
Grain stores guarded as mobs grow hungry
Police and military units have stepped up security at government rice and grain silos across Mindanao, fearing food riots amid the worsening El Nino drought.
US President Bill Clinton has ordered the Defence, State and Justice departments to plan the arrest and trial of former Khmer Rouge chief Pol Pot, The New York Times reported yesterday.
Trade deficit shocks Taiwan stocks
Taiwan's share prices took a tumble yesterday as official figures showed that the island suffered its first quarterly trade deficit in 17 years, raising fears about the impact of the Asian crisis on the island's economy.
Market waits for statement from Hashimoto
Japanese stocks were mixed after three days of gains, as investors hesitated to buy or sell aggressively with Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto set to discuss his government's plans for economic recovery later yesterday.
A great page to catch all the Asia news

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:27
John Disney__A (Key item .. Sales tax on gold Coins ) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Interesting article in Business Day which apparently
not carried in US state controlled press.
Article quotes Robert Guy of NM Rothschild . He said
that the management of European gold reserves should be
PRIVATISED. He then blasted the European banks for
devalueing their own reserves through lack of
transparency, sudden unexpected sales, and the
absence of any strategoc gold policy. He urged PUBLIC
AUCTIONS rather than secret sales between banks,
and clear policy statements. He urged EXEMPTION from
SALES TAX on gold sales in the EU. He urged introduction
of a Gold euro coin.
Mozel is right, the real key to gold lies in its
purchase by the common man as a store of value. This
of course after recognition of its great monetary value.
Coin demand must be a key indicator.
For Fred .. what is sales tax on coin situation
in Europe

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:26
telecaster (@Selby) ID#30970:
Selby - My compliments. I should have put the entire post in quotations, because they are from the article. The first site, which you were unable to access, was Kitco. Anyway, you might enjoy Smith's previous write-ups, which are listed here:

The man makes an argument about overhang that is hard to refute.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:25
aurator (Frogs and pommie bastards) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hey mate, did ya sell a subscription to that cwazy cwazy pommie bastard Andy Smith? Cos he's quoting our hallowed Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter in his gimcrack little broadsheet.
Wonder where he got the hook to Charles Fort, eh Auric? How about CB gold holdings as a Fortean phenomena Mr Smith?

Come on on andy, it is kitco's birthday today, I reckon we can all be civil, even to pommie bastards, come out to play on kitco, exercise the mind

We can at least talk about falls of fishes or manna, or how does a frog survive in rock?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:23
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Sharefin -- Drop 30-50%? I think it may be a whole lot more than that before it all gets washed out. The 'dirt' is going to require a whole LOT of 'bleach'!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:21
tolerant1 (you folks can all talk about this and that) ID#31868:
however, there is overcapacity everywhere in/on the globe -deflation...

Running the printing press, the cure is far worse than the disease...

Economist - a fabulous profession without a need for experience.

( Speeling for sam )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:20
mozel (@Andy Smith @Eldorado) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BIS is capitalized with gold at $208 per oz, calculated with reserve margin at $280 per oz. If gold at the LBMA drops below the capitalized value at BIS, what happens to the BIS balance sheet ? Yes, there is a free put on the price of gold in the range from $208 to $280.

Yes, the new loan is the new infusion of life for the vampire of debt currency. Tomorrow's unit must be worth less than today's. Otherwise, it cannot rationally be borrowed. If there is a hint that the unit will be worth more tomorrow than today, only a mad fool would borrow. This is what Washington understands that Japan does not. The Japanese have been living in an illusion. They have been getting a free ride on Washington's deficit spending and programmed inflation and looking down their noses at it. Now the moment of truth is at their doorstep. If they cannot politically adapt to a debt currency. to the planned inflation and deficit spending that a debt currency demands, their whole monetary system will have to change. Or, their political and monetary system. I think culturally the Japanese are incapable of debt currency. Their trade surplus, a gift from the Congress of the United States, has permitted them the luxury of denial. But, the reality of what their money really is now intrudes.

Will the BIS pull the plug on life support for the fiat dollar ? All it takes is for Central Banks to stop selling gold and to start buying it. If Japan exits the world for a period of internal rearrangment of money and government, look out in London.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:19
Quixotic 1 (***Thoughts For ANOTHER***) ID#48200:
Copyright © 1998 Quixotic 1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thoughts for another

Kitcoites and their sphere of influence, extend to all reaches of the world, and in some cases, beyond. Attempting to successfully communicate and reason with such a diverse group of perceptual sets, must be an impossible task for anyone. These bites that offend you as well as their peers, do not represent this portal to Truth, Justice and the Golden Way. Our mission will benefit all of mankind, by first learning to manage the information and disinformation overload. ANOTHER, we need, let me say this again, WE NEED people like you to introduce new thoughts, possibilities and Truths. A mind, once expanded with ANOTHER THOUGHT, seldom returns to its original capacity. Please don't allow a few minds, which believe they can be expanded no more, to prejudice the rest of us eager students of life. Your classroom has many students. All cannot be exemplary, as we have seen. The vast, spoken and unspoken majority still has a lot to learn. Please accept this Pineapple ( symbol of Welcome and Friendship ) , and renew your quest to rise the boats of all men with your unique insight and interactions.
Thank you for your time and consideration. I remain, on bended knee, hardly sorry for my brother's offenses.

Gold for the good guys…GMJ

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:16
oris (Brother John, by the way, congratulations, I heard) ID#238422:
on PBS channel tonight that RSA gold miners is good
investment now. I know you already sold a lot...You
are real professional.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:14
Silverthorn__A (A. Goose ) ID#247309:
Enjoy your on-going search for physical.
I think the issue may revolve around the term exchange. COMEX is called an exchange, not a warehouse. To meet its future obligations, the exchange does not need an equal amount of physical. When I posted on this subject several weeks ago, I had spoken to COMEX about this issue and was told that in the event of insufficient physical, COMEX would either acquire it, from amoung other places, London.
Your point that all the COMEX inventory could be bought for $46M makes the point, but why not buy physical in the market?
I suspect that COMEX does have commitments from others to meet its short term needs in addition to whatever amount of physical actually underlies the producers' contracts.
On a more suspicious bent, we could ask what if those commitments are illusory and what would happen if they could not be met, but isn't that a much larger issue than COMEX? Certainly the Hunt's found out what happens - COMEX just changes the rules. No doubt the basis of some prior postings here about the danger of paper gold.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:11
oris (John Disney) ID#238422:
Hi, brother John.

High for the week was 314.50, and
of course it held above 300. If
you remember my post, my high
for the week was 314...315, and I
ordered gold to hold above 300.

Do you think your little brother Oris
is a genius or what? Just kidding...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:11
tolerant1 (John Disney) ID#31868:
training mine podge, still rolling around and laughing, bombalaylaylay.......................................

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:08
PH in LA (Open letter to LGB) ID#225408:
Copyright © 1998 PH in LA/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Once again I am left with the genuine belief that my posts have gone virtually unread by you and thereby misunderstood. My comments to you have not been meant as any kind of personal attack. In fact, I have called numerous times for moderation and tolerance even for the likes of Heavy Hitter ( on occasion. ) ( R.I.P. )

Everyone admires a quick mind and noone would deny that you have one. At the same time, they usually admire a penetrating and thoughtful mind even more; much more! Your habit of reacting sharply and instantaneously to anything you think you disagree with is usually neither penetrating nor thoughtful. Unless your mind works light-years faster than mine, ( always a possibility ) your responses come so fast that it is obvious that you have not given them sufficient thought. And upon considering them, that impression is not often dispelled. At first I tried to point out inconsistencies in your reactions, but have long since given up. When posters submit a carefully-thought-out thesis, it would ordinarily be considered reasonable to give them the benefit of some thought and understanding of what they have really written before disagreeing. This has been the thrust of most of my remarks to you ( as far as I can recall ) . If you feel that they have crossed over some impolite line, degenerating into personal attacks, I apologise. This was not ever my intent.

.You feel overlooked for having called a bottom of $280 before ANOTHER; a fact that you feel has been forgotten. The way I see it, ANOTHER's call was interesting because he offered a compelling reason and explanation for his words. That was the idea that everyone remembers around here; not the numerical value itself. Hell man, anyone can get up on a soapbox with a prophesy. The ones we remember are those that tell us why. Those are the ones that expand the universe of our minds.

It is unfair to suggest that anyone be indicted or blamed for the departure of anyone else from this forum. All who post here must accept the consequences for their actions, both in what they say and in where they say it. I refuse to believe that ANOTHER ( or anyone else, including yourself ) misunderstands this.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:06
sharefin (ROFL) ID#284255:
As the pyramid rises, so does the mountain of debt.

If this mania ever crashes
There's going to be lots of cheap houses
And lots of unhappy families.
Imagine 5% of overleveraged investors
All having to sell into the market at once.

I have just sold two rentals
And now doing up my home to sell.
I presume that we will see
One of the best buying oportunities
Of real estate
Presented to us on a plate soon.

I have seen reports where they expect
Property to drop from 30% to 50%
Over the next 7 years.

To be forced to sell at such a time
Would be extremely painfull.
It will be a buyers market.
The man with no debt and cashed up
Will do well.

Great post ROFL many times over

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:06
John Disney__A (Comment on good thing) ID#24135:
for ersel ..
Sorry for delay .. assume you mean purchase
of canadian mine by harmony .. Yes its good
.. believe they think they can operate at close
to 250 AVERAGE cost cost and cream at least 50
bucks per once .. they bought 670,000 oz for
about 10 mil US. I think thats something like
15 $/oz.. Thats about the cost of a RSA takeover
OR RSA developement. Lihir cost close to 50$/oz.
Not knocking Lihir.. just explaning ..Only
interested in Lihir as a yardstick.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:03
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Myrmidon -- Funny about those 'free-rides'; someone always turns the ride off.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 01:02
aurator (Kitco is Two Today.) ID#257148:

Well, I suppose it is up to me to be the first thank Bart Kitner for his site, on this, Kitco's second Birthday.

Happy Birthday dear cyber-creation. There are many here who will toast yu tonight!

Now, where did I put those candles?

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:58
Selby (Andy Smith) ID#286230:
telecaster: thanks for the 2 sites although I could not get to the first one. After being accused of being somehow associated with Andy smith I at least now have some idea what he is about. Did a fine job of producing a caricature of Kitco although he lost the value of the site in the process.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:58
Myrmidon (@ Eldorado) ID#339212:

Eldorado: Now, how long can one import more goods than export?

Answer: As long as someone else pays the difference. A good example are some of the small European common market countries. Their currencies are supported artificially high, they have high inflation but their citizens are on a free ride to the backs of the Germans, British and French.

Portugal, Greece, Spain, have enjoyed a high standard of living because of international loans and subsidies from the ECU majors.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:57
EJ (@Prometheus: Yup. We humans are great muddlers. Look at the) ID#45173:
crap the people of the Sovient Union put up with for 60 years. No doubt we'll all survive. In fact, there is an upside. I probably won't be working 80 hour weeks. Maybe I'll get to see my friends and family once in a while, drink cheap wine, read, get some sleep...

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:54
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Golden Cheeshead -- That's why the ever decreasing 'loan/lending requirements'; to keep the game afloat. It MUST be ever expanding, and at an ever increasing rate to keep it afloat, much less doing any good while it is increasing. The last hand-writing is on the wall. I fail to be able to view it in any other way.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:46
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I agree, mein Herr! Money is DEBT ergo money BEGETS DEBT. US Currency is debt ergo US Currency begets debt! The more M123 expands, the more debt is created and the bigger the debt balloon. Ergo, to keep the debt ballon expanding, more and more debt must be created. If ever the money ( debt ) supply begins to contract, the debt balloon implodes and the economy is thrown into recession/depression while the cost of money ( interest ) rises. The result for stocks and bonds is obvious and the consequences for those dependent on same is catastrophic! The remedy for such an eventuality--GOLD! BUY and HOLD! It alone will survive the coming debt ( currency ) implosion!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:45
Prometheus (@ALL) ID#210235:

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:44
tolerant1 (mozel) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This scumbag from Arkansas is not representative of the American people. We have a very slow reaction time.

The eighth knuckle has yet to land.

I sit here surrounded by firemen, marines, and regular folks, I am in Long Island…They chide me, ride me, tell me, inform me,…

America is alive and well…

I have written and said this before, I will dive on the bayonet of tyranny. But I am bashful,…they are not….access to freedom…freedom to access…

The welfare state is dead…

Kindness is a candle that no ill will shall ever extinguish.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:43
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
EJ -- Perhaps after it's all over, we can all put together Poe's land of 'Eldorado'.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:42
A.Goose (What can I say... It looks like a PAPER GOLD market to me.) ID#256250:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Someone said to me today, that they wonder if comex was already closed. Why I asked. They replied that it seem to them that comex stocks didn't seem to reflect the trading action that is reported to us through the media. Well, maybe they have a point. Lots of paper gold trades everyday, but darn little bullion moves around. It took questor and Tlyer Rose to months to obtain their gold from comex. Turning paper into gold is harder that turning gold into paper! Was comex srambling to provide bullion? Sorry folks if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ..., its a duck.
A.Goose knows about ducks.


COMEX Estimated Volumes for Today


Gold 25,000
Silver 21,000
H.G. Copper 20,000


475,158 0 0 0 0 475,158
143,071 0 0 0 0 143,071
618,229 0 0 0 0 618,229


0 0 33,795,629
0 0 53,082,193
0 0 86,877,822

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:40
telecaster (Andy Smith) ID#30970:
Has this been posted yet?

The universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose

Surf, for example,, and catch a wave of wondrous wackiness. But be sure to wear a full length rubber suit.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:38
Prometheus (@EJ) ID#210235:
A star for bravery for attempting to describe assembler/disassembler code to the layman. Kudos for a pretty good job, too. Somehow, we'll muddle through. Won't be on any airplanes, though.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:35
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Sharefin -- Money begats money. True to the extent of verbage. But in this day and age, money IS debt. Thus money begats debt! Regrettably.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:31
EJ (Y2K: did my homework, changed my mind) ID#45173:
Copyright © 1998 EJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I reluctantly admit I was wrong in my initial assessment of the Y2K threat as less than severe. After 15 years in the high tech biz, half in software development, I speculated that locating and fixing Y2K bugs would not be too hard. In the past few weeks I have spoken with ten associates from my past, all of whom either currently work for or have in the past few years worked for financial services companies as application developers, the preferred title for folks who write computer programs, aka programmers. Here is what I found.

I assumed you can easily find instances in source code of date functions that manipulate data and fix them to account for numbers greater than 1999. ( Source code is the text-based programming language that gets translated into computer code by a special program called a compiler. ) That assumption was naive. First of all, date functions may be used many, many times in one of many programs that make up a complete application, such as an application that calculates derivatives on long terms bonds over 30 years. So just finding them is a big job. There is no good way to automate this, so a programmer must analyze the logic of each and every function to understand how it may work in many contexts. This is of course greatly complicated by the fact that the source code may have been written by someone else long ago and poorly documented. In addition, different compilers ( the programs that convert source code into machine code ) will generate different machine code from the same source code, so that it executes in different ways. Sometimes a function correctly deals with date forms greater than 1999 and sometimes not, depending on how a compiler inteprets the source code. So everything must be tested, whether a bug can be seen in the logic of the code or not. This has to be done to code that was hardly tested in the first place because of time constraints. One friend works as a programmer at a very large and well known financial services company ( hint: name begins with F ) and he says he is one of few programmers there who are NOT working around the clock to find and fix Y2K bugs. He says the project leaders on most of the teams doing this work cannot say with any certainty that they will have found and located all of these bugs in time. They are keenly aware that the stakes are high, so it is just about all they are doing. As I said in my last post, watch the 10Q's for signs of trouble.

That's the good news. The bad news is that this work is being done most successfully on client/server systems that are relatively new. Then there are older mainframe systems that run using machine code for which there is no longer any source code--it was lost. That means you can't look at the text for functions that may be a problem. To solve this, compiler companies are creating programs that dissassemble machine code ( the reverse process of compiling source code into machine code ) to try to convert it back to source code so that humans can try to find logic errors in the use of date functions. The problem is that the source code that these programs make out of machine code is hard for humans to read. So the time consuming process described above is even more difficult. Also, the reverse compiler may be dissassembling machine code that was generated by a compiler that was made by a company that went out of business years ago. So you cannot be certain that the reverse compiler is correctly intepreting the machine code that it is converting back to source code. Also, you don't compile source code by running the dissassembler backwards. You need yet another compiler, and it may intepret the new source code so that date functions don't work as expected.

The bottom line is, fixing software is very likely to take a lot longer than the time available. The companies with the greatest resources and highest stakes, like the one I've referred to here, at least have a shot at it. Not understaffed government agencies and low-margin businesses running old equipment ( e.g., IRS, Airlines, etc ) . So a lot of stuff ain't gonna work right, and some things are going to work at all. If you fly on Jan. 1, 2000, you are definately a nut. As far as business goes, a lot of folks are going to have to learn how to do transactions manually, on paper, with a pen.


Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:21
Eldorado (@the scene) ID#173274:
Gold IS the medium of international exchange. No more, no less! Now, how long can one import more goods than export? Guess its the differential of the amount of gold currently on hand and the trade deficit, or at least what one can make believe is available. Some of this can be made 'hidden' via other paper with debt payment attached. At least for awhile ( confidence ) ! That's my take on the whole situation. It really has nothing to do with inflation or deflation. Simply a growing lack of confidence in the debt-repayment confidence game.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:16
STUDIO.R (@aurator.....a belated thank you......) ID#288369:
for going to the trouble of looking up Eldo's theme....he picked a great one..huh?....serves him well.

maybe, one of these days ( if one of the guys loses a girlfriend ) ...Poe's Annabelle Lee ( sp? ) geeze I need to replace my complete works of EAP...I think I hear it thumping, er... bumping, knocking, beating....I just can't find it! Maybe it's behind this wall.... oh hell, I 'm now off to nightmares.....G'nite.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:15
sharefin (Dear God) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin All rights reserved
Dear God

A man of integrity would I be --
And wise in Judgment
So dear God, teach me

And brave enough,
Compassionate and good
Resourceful and intuitive
And I would
A touch of humour lest I be severe.
And sound good health.
And please, a modicum of wealth.
For you have given us keen eyes
For beauty and the things we prize

The gift of loving too I need.
For you dear God made Eve a maid
And me dear God a man indeed.
And both with thoughtful care

A moderate man you see
And peaceful -- not a prude
For these few simple things I plea.
Dear God -- remember me --

Dear God

That earlier list
Dear God.
Me surely dreaming!
A moralistic theme
Composed no doubt
In a grey moment

What I'd really like
Dear God
Even now, grown old,
Is a garden
And a woman at my side
To help me tend it
Woman are wonderful friends
And often wonderful gardeners.
Such a loving empathy with life

And this life's a garden
Needing care.
So forget that list
Dear God.
Just take me as I am
And, if there's the chance
Of such a garden
And such a friend
Dear God -- Remember me

Over two thousand years ago Horace -- great Roman poet wrote to a good friend
This was in my prayers;
A piece of ground not overlarge,
And near to a stream of constant water,
And beside these some little quantity of woodland
Truly the dream of all peoples.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:12
JTF (Today's post was from ANOTHER, I think, not 'speaker for ANOTHER') ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
oris: There are probably two individuals who use ANOTHER's ID#. One I call 'speaker for ANOTHER' who is very fluent in English, and ANOTHER, who is not. Probably the older and younger generation.

I have seen this in my Oriental relatives, where talking to the Grandmother is very difficult, because all must be translated for me ( and for her ) . Speaking to the mother in law is easier because she has learned English as her second language. However, much is still different, and mysterious at times, just as with our conversations with ANOTHER. I think ANOTHER probably has less practice with English than you -- so he must get assistance at times to understand the language.

I have always wondered why ANOTHER never made significant comments about the negative words on Kitco -- until tonight. Perhaps the younger generation in his family finally alerted him -- possibly the one I call 'speaker for ANOTHER'.

I must really get off for my son -- he has the day off from school tomorrow. Happy Easter everyone!

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:06
Open-Loop (@Sharefin@losthomes.stupid.more.comments) ID#16255:
Copyright © 1998 Open-Loop/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I know many people that have Thier 401k in the highest risk investment
available. Credit cards maxed, 2 car payments, magig 125% morgage,
pool payment, child support from previous and so on

I too have commented...
Thier reply you might ask!..............I am in it for the long hual
My reply? you might ask!................How long can you wait?
Thier reply you gotta ask!..............You ( me ) are a FOOL
The economy is great
Inflation is non exsistent
The dollar is strong
Unemployment lowest in 25 yrs
They balanced the budget
Asia? They screwed up
Bill? Who cares
Russia? Wimps
G,G,Gold! You ( me ) are a fool
My reply You surely ask? Have a NICE DAY :- ) )

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:04
Pete (ALL-Liberty, AKA LGB) ID#222231:
Please reread your post - Saving time - 04/09/98 - 11:06. I think you owe an apology to others ( more than you mentioned in your post ) beside ANOTHER.

Date: Fri Apr 10 1998 00:01
sharefin (Japan in dire straights?) ID#284255:
I sourced the info and the link from Avid
There is a poster there who is well versed in what is going on there,
And comments frequently on the topic.

Like you I see the waves of debt roiling.
The ebb and flow of currency flows
Rolling over and over.
Interest accumulting at an ever faster rate.
I guess it works a bit like pyramiding

I think the same must happen
Throughout the West
With their money game.

It is one amazing pyramid
That they have created
Compounding debt.

Money begats money

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