Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:59
A.Goose () ID#256254:
Sooooo is this drop in silver at 23:32 correct? 6.09 -0.21.

SI K8 May Silver 6.310 +.5 +0.1 Updated as of: Mar 10, 1998 @ 11:52 pm ET

SI H8 6.27
si k8 6.31

Does not seem to be correct ? Anyone have a spot quote

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:56
6pak (Japan @ Very Severe Situation (FYI)) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
March 10, 1998

Japan surplus soars in January as economy slumps

TOKYO, March 11 ( Reuters ) - Japan's politically contentious trade surplus more than tripled in January from the same month last year, data released on Wednesday showed, refocusing attention on the nation's slumping domestic economy.

The current account surplus, the broadest measure of trade in goods and services, soared 212.8 percent to 476.2 billion yen ( $3.74 billion ) , while the merchandise trade surplus alone climbed 136.6 percent to 538.8 billion yen, the Ministry of Finance said.

The surge underlined the fact that Japan's weak domestic economy is not sucking in imports, said economist Kenji Arata at MCM Asia Pacific.

Exports to Asia are certainly falling due to the crisis but so are imports -- trade with the region in general is on the decline, Arata said. Although exports to Asia have fallen, this is being offset by exports to the EU and the United States.

Finance Minister Hikaru Matsunaga acknowledged in parliament that the economy remains stagnant and is in a very severe situation.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:36
6pak (SDR @ FYI) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
International Keynesians recognise the debt crisis as a global crisis of solvency and recommend appropriate policy actions. In the case of the Brandt Commissioners the policy emphasis is upon reflationary fiscal and monetary policies in the OECD countries, debt writedowns and greater public control over the private creations of international liquidity.

A greater role for the SDR is also envisaged, along with the creation of a new global institution, the World Development Fund.

Recent attempts to engineer a soft landing for the dollar, the consolidation of the exchange-rate mechanism of an emerging European Monetary System, and the Baker/Brady plans all point up the role of nation-states and international institutions in reining in the free play of the markets.

By the same token, Marxism is sceptical of the idea that Keynesian policies will be warmly embraced by the creditor powers ( in the name, perchance, of inter-national economic growth ) .

Demands for a massive new allocation of SDRs, and for further state control of finance capitals, have not been well received in Washington and New York, and nor will they be, so long as they threaten the role of the dollar, of U.S. of A hegemony, and of the free operation of the banks.

Whether such policies would gain support in the indebted nations is a moot point.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:33
...of all significant N.A. junior producers, Pegasus has the cheapest common stock you can buy on any exchange and if you think gold is going over 300, percentage gains will far outweigh any other junior...on the other hand, if gold goes in the opposite direction, then I think Pegasus common will disappear from the face of the Earth.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:32
farfel (@ MIDAS...IN A SENTENCE MORE OR LESS...) ID#339265:
...of all significant N.A. junior producers, Pegasus has the cheapest common stock you can buy on any exchange and if you think gold is going over 300, percentage gains will far outweigh any other junior...on the other hand, if gold goes in the opposite direction, then I think Pegasus common will disappear from the face of the Earth.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:24
Buy VENGOLD or LIHIR instead! Their cash cost is @225 and will produce 675,000 ozs. this year and maybe 1,000,000 ozs. by the year 2000!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:23
John Disney__A (ER .. Preacher .. I think that was English) ID#24135:
For Preacher .
You asked if anyone knew how to convert
5 yen per gram into English

Yes .. I know how to do that .. but I think
it's already in English.
However to assist you in your intellectual
One gram = 0.0322 troy oz.
One $ = maybe 127.6 yen

thus 5 yen per gram = 5/ ( 127.6*.0322 )
= $1.2/oz

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:20
Midas__A (@farfel) ID#340459:
What does it all mean in a sentence

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:11
DJ (Silver) ID#215208:
Can anyone confirm that spot silver actually dropped 21 cents. DBC shows it still at 630.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:10
farfel (Latest News on PEGASUS GOLD (PSGQF)...(Dedicated to Haggis)) ID#339265:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The downside: gold has to beat $300 an ounce to get any action in the stock. If gold goes the other way, the stock is not worth toilet paper. That's a hard one to predict, given the increasing pessimism amongst the gold investing population.

The upside: all writeoffs are in so no more surprises; dilution NOT expected on the common stock for at least 7-9 months, and the stock trades about 50,000-75,000 shares ( avg. ) shares a day. Nice rumor running around that company Prez and head jerk-off is not long for his job. Volume will probably go above 100,000 tomorrow. If POG breaks 300, then stock should get an easy 100%-150% rise...if POG breaks 310, then expect 200%-250%.

Pegasus Gold Update

Tuesday, March 10, 1998 09:29 PM

( all dollar amounts in this release are in US dollars )
Pegasus Gold Inc. ( PGU - ME; PSGQF - OTC B.B. ) reports that the Company
has recalculated its ore reserves and resources as of December 31, 1997 using
a long-term gold price of $350 per ounce. All reserve pits and stopes were
redesigned based on $350 gold price optimizations. The primary changes to the
ore reserves are that Mt. Todd has been reclassified as additional
mineralization removing it from proven and probable reserves because the asset
is under Voluntary Administration in Australia, the removal of Zortman from
ore reserves since the Extension Project is no longer economic at current
prices, and the elimination of Black Pine and Beal Mountain from all
categories since both sites are in closure. As a result of ore reserve
reductions and the lower gold price assumption used for calculating reserves,
the Company expects to record a reduction in the carrying values of its
operating mines in the fourth quarter of 1997.
The Company's proven and probable reserves declined to 1.2 million
contained ounces of gold during 1997 as a result of mining and the above noted
changes. At year-end 1997, total mineralized material increased to 2.4
million ounces of contained gold, with the majority of the increase resulting
from the reclassification of the Mt. Todd, Zortman and Pullalli mines to this
category. At ongoing operations, mineralized material increased to 533,000
contained ounces of gold with the majority of the increase coming at Montana
Tunnels. During 1997, total additional mineralization decreased slightly to
5.1 million ounces of contained gold. Additions of 700,000 ounces at Florida
Canyon and 100,000 ounces at Diamond Hill were offset by reductions at Montana
Tunnels and Mt. Todd.
The Company calculated the proven and probable ore reserves using
different gold price scenarios. At $400 per ounce gold, the proven and
probable reserves at Florida Canyon, Montana Tunnels and Diamond Hill would
increase 7 percent to 1.3 million contained ounces of gold, while at $300 per
ounce gold, the proven and probable reserves at Florida Canyon, Montana
Tunnels and Diamond Hill would decrease by 23 percent to 949,400 contained
ounces of gold.
During 1997, the Company's six mines produced 469,952 ounces of gold at a
total cash cost of $308 per ounce, compared to 497,340 ounces at a total cash
cost of $301 per ounce a year earlier. During the fourth quarter of 1997, the
Company produced a total of 116,902 ounces of gold compared to 146,107 ounces
in the fourth quarter of 1996. Total cash costs in the fourth quarter of 1997
were $339 per ounce compared to $303 per ounce for the same period in 1996.
During the fourth quarter of 1997, operations ceased at both Beal
Mountain and Black Pine as ore deposits were mined out and the Mt. Todd Mine
was placed on care and maintenance.
The Company's ongoing operations include Florida Canyon, Montana Tunnels
and Diamond Hill which are expected to produce approximately 300,000 ounces of
gold at an average total cost of $250 per ounce in 1998.
Florida Canyon: Development and exploration activities in 1997 in the
Radio Tower East, Jasperoid Hill, Cone and Headwaters areas all added upside
resource potential. Exploration drilling at the Headwaters target now stands
at 22 holes totaling 3,316 meters. Favorable results received from drilling
in the northern portion of the target continue to indicate an up dip expansion
of mineralization from Radio Tower East. The best hole to date penetrated
50.3 meters of oxide mineralization with a grade of 1.44 grams per tonne ( g/t )
gold starting at 9.1 meters. Currently, all exploration and development
activity at Florida Canyon is directed toward developing and increasing
minable ore reserves.
Diamond Hill: The 1997 exploration program had encouraging drill results
within the North and Glory Hole Zones verifying that these zones continue to
depth. At the adjacent Blacksmith property Phase I drilling commenced and
eleven RC holes totaling 1,606 meters were completed by year-end. Initial
results were very encouraging. Four holes penetrated significant intervals of
high and low grade mineralization. One of the best holes, Hole 1 returned two
high grade zones averaging 7.6 meters grading 3.7 g/t gold and 15.2 meters
grading 4.3 g/t gold contained within a lower grade envelope of 44.2 meters
grading 1.05 g/t gold. Also, Hole 3 returned two high grade zones averaging 3
meters grading 38.7 g/t gold and 12.2 meters grading 17.5 g/t gold within a
lower grade envelope of 41.2 meters 1.05 g/t gold. The gold mineralization is
associated with altered and pyritized volcanics defined by a distinct
geophysical IP anomaly approximately 700 meters long and 300 meters wide.
Follow-up drilling is continuing.
Capira Dorada Project, Panama: Reconnaissance sampling was completed on
thirteen separate target areas throughout the concession. Based on these
results, seven different drill targets have been established. However, due to
the Company's current financial position, Pegasus has asked its partners to
suspend the Company's obligations for six months.
Brazil: Pegasus is in the process of joint venturing most of its
properties in Brazil. The Independencia property has been joint ventured with
Placer Dome who has commenced drilling to test for possible projections of the
stockwork and sheeted vein systems outside of the known mineralized area. The
program is still in the early stages and significantly more work will be
completed on the joint venture.
1998 PLANS
Overall, gold production in 1998 is expected to be approximately 300,000
ounces. Pegasus expects that total cash costs for 1998 will be $250 per ounce.
The Company anticipates that from existing operations gold production could
increase in 1999 to the 350,000 ounce level at a total cash cost of $200 per
MINE 1997a 1998e 1999e
( ounces ) ( ounces ) ( ounces )
Florida Canyon 163,320 185,000 235,000
Montana Tunnels 78,517 70,000 75,000
Diamond Hill 41,709 45,000 40,000
Mt. Todd 100,300 --- ---
Black Pine 44,080 --- ---
Beal Mountain 30,740 --- ---
Zortman 11,286 --- ---
Total 469,952 300,000 350,000
The total cash cost per ounce conforms to the Gold Institute Standards
which includes royalties. Montana Tunnels assumes zinc prices of $0.55 per
pound and silver prices of $5.00 per ounce in 1998 and 1999 in calculating
by-product credits.
MINE 1997a 1998e 1999e
( $/oz ) ( $/oz ) ( $/oz )
Florida Canyon 323 285 230
Montana Tunnels 258 170 90
Diamond Hill 261 225 235
Mt. Todd 338 --- ---
Black Pine 296 --- ---
Beal Mountain 320 --- ---
Zortman 343 --- ---
Average $308 $250 $200
At Florida Canyon, the Company has reviewed and changed the mining plan
significantly. During 1998, ore will be placed on the existing heap leach pad
resulting in expected gold production of 185,000 ounces at a total cash cost
of $285 per ounce. The new reserve model reduces the strip ratio considerably
resulting in a lower mining cost per tonne. Additionally, mining costs
improve due to efficiencies gained in shorter waste hauls, rock
characteristics improve and less working faces to maintain resulting in more
efficient operations. The overall capital required for the site has been
reduced because the Company intends to build an extension to the existing heap
leach pad as opposed to building a completely separate heap leach pad.
Engineering is underway on the design of an extension to the existing heap
leach pad eliminating approximately $10 million in capital expenditures
required for a new pad. For 1998, the Company is planning capital
expenditures of approximately $2.3 million at Florida Canyon.
Montana Tunnels and Diamond Hill are expected to produce approximately
115,000 ounces of gold combined during 1998. Processing of Diamond Hill ores
will be via truck haulage to Montana Tunnels with ongoing ore blending and
batch treatment at the Tunnels mill. The majority of Diamond Hill's ore will
come out of the North and Glory Hole Zones for 1998.
Zortman Extension Project
The Company has decided that it will not proceed with the Zortman
Extension Project and that it will proceed with the reclamation of the
existing site. Factors contributing to this decision include the IBLA's
inaction on the appeal of the Record of Decision ( which effectively precludes
work on the Extension Project ) and the recent recalculation of the ore
reserves at $350 per ounce gold which show that the Zortman Extension Project
cannot support a $30 to $40 million capital investment necessary to construct
the expansion project. The Company feels that at current gold prices the
Zortman Extension Project is uneconomic at this time and will not proceed,
therefore, a write-down will be recorded in the fourth quarter of 1997.
1998 Exploration Program
The Company is planning a $4.3 million exploration program for 1998. The
majority of the exploration spending is planned at Florida Canyon and Diamond
Hill, which are targeted to continue to add to the reserve and resource base.
Subsequent to the Company filing for protection under Chapter 11 on
January 16, 1998, a Creditors' Committee has been formed. The committee
consists of nine creditors, of which three represent lenders under the
revolving credit facility, three represent convertible subordinated note
holders and three are trade creditors. The first meeting of creditors ( the
``341'' meeting ) was held in Reno, Nevada on March 9, 1998.
As previously reported, the Company has engaged workout specialists to
assist in preparation of a business plan and a plan of reorganization to
restructure the Company's obligations. The plan of reorganization will be
submitted later this year, but confirmation of a plan and consummation of it
may be 9 to 15 months in the future. Pegasus management is committed to
reorganizing and emerging from Chapter 11 as an operating Company with the
appropriate capital structure in place producing gold from at least two or
more mines.
Statements in this release which are not historical data are forward
looking and involve a number of risks and uncertainties, including but not
limited to the price of gold and other commodities and currencies, production,
construction and permitting or regulatory delays, reserve estimation of
tonnage, grade and metallurgical recoveries, exploration success and reserve
growth, litigation, capital costs, and other risks that are detailed in the
Company's SEC filings.
Pegasus Gold Inc. is an international gold mining company, headquartered
in Spokane, Washington. The Company carries out exploration internationally
through offices located in Santiago, Chile; and Panama City, Panama. The
common shares of Pegasus are traded under the symbol PGU on the Montreal
Exchange. The common shares also trade over the counter in the United States
under the symbol PSGQF.
Two tables follow
Tonnage Grade Contained
( Tonnes ( grams/ Ounces
Proven and Probable 000s ) tonne ) ( 000's )
Florida Canyon 39,498 0.69 877
Montana Tunnels 17,589 0.55 308
Diamond Hill 198 8.10 51
Total 57,285 0.67 1,236
Mineralized Material
Florida Canyon 6,903 0.72 159
Montana Tunnels 18,603 0.57 343
Diamond Hill 110 8.76 31
SubTotal 25,616 0.65 533
Mt. Todd ( 2 ) 23,190 1.27 949
Zortman ( 3 ) 22,026 0.58 410
Pullalli ( 4 ) 9,135 1.60 470
Total 79,967 0.92 2,362
Additional Mineralization
Florida Canyon 104,531 0.63 2,120
Montana Tunnels 14,043 0.52 233
Diamond Hill 645 7.89 164
Sub Total 119,219 0.66 2,517
Mt. Todd ( 2 ) 43,191 1.14 1,581
Zortman ( 3 ) 53,269 0.54 919
Pullalli ( 4 ) 4,067 0.89 117
Total 219,746 0.73 5,134
( 1 ) Ore reserves are calculated using a $350 per ounce gold price
( 2 ) Mt. Todd was placed in voluntary administration in Australia in
December 1997
( 3 ) The Company is not going ahead with the Zortman Extension at this
( 4 ) The Company may sell the Pullalli property
Three Months Ended Twelve Months Ended
December 31 December 31
1997 1996 1997 1996
------------------ -------------------
Production: Gold ( Ounces ) 35,196 64,513 163,320 183,176
Silver ( Ounces ) 28,178 34,397 146,567 104,684
Ore Mined tonnes ( 000's ) 2,344 4,027 10,795 13,881
Cash Operating Cost $363 $236 $310 $250
Total Cash Cost $378 $256 $323 $266
Total Production Cost $475 $353 $424 $342
Production: Gold ( Ounces ) 35,761 24,849 120,226 81,558
Silver ( Ounces ) 154,208 231,331 796,003 921,512
Lead ( Tons ) 1,800 1,845 8,499 7,049
Zinc ( Tons ) 4,568 3,276 20,861 18,312
Ore Milled tonnes ( 000's ) 1,066 1,232 4,823 5,006
Cash Operating Cost $360 $367 $234 $286
Total Cash Cost $372 $401 $259 $326
Total Production Cost $433 $570 $373 $491
Production: Gold ( Ounces ) 25,315 12,129 100,300 62,613
Silver ( Ounces ) 3,303 - 11,968 -
Ore Milled tonnes ( 000's ) 876 491 2,611 4,004
Cash Operating Cost $322 $306 $338 $370
Total Cash Cost $320 $306 $338 $371
Total Production Cost $458 $417 $480 $474
Production: Gold ( Ounces ) 1,507 7,820 11,286 37,043
Silver ( Ounces ) 1,440 30,904 19,464 129,807
Ore Mined tonnes ( 000's ) - - - 126
Cash Operating Cost $283 $300 $327 $309
Total Cash Cost $302 $319 $343 $322
Total Production Cost $465 $454 $503 $445
Production: Gold ( Ounces ) 9,455 13,157 30,740 45,067
Silver ( Ounces ) 1,226 2,523 4,878 7,834
Ore Mined tonnes ( 000's ) - 473 672 1,718
Cash Operating Cost $332 $352 $289 $339
Total Cash Cost $365 $383 $320 $365
Total Production Cost $449 $484 $407 $524
Production: Gold ( Ounces ) 9,668 23,639 44,080 87,883
Silver ( Ounces ) 3,205 6,121 16,204 30,995
Ore Mined tonnes ( 000's ) 1,069 2,135 2,654 8,726
Cash Operating Cost $302 $250 $276 $258
Total Cash Cost $316 $276 $296 $284
Total Production Cost $326 $311 $307 $320
Production: Gold ( Ounces )
- 100% 116,902 146,107 469,952 497,340
Silver ( Ounces ) 191,560 305,276 995,084 1,194,832
Lead ( Tons ) 1,800 1,845 8,499 7,049
Zinc ( Tons ) 4,568 3,276 20,861 18,312
Ore Mined/Milled tonnes ( 000's ) 5,355 8,358 21,555 33,461
Cash Operating Cost $327 $280 $292 $280
Total Cash Cost $339 $303 $308 $301
Total Production Cost $426 $406 $413 $399
( 1 ) Cash Operating costs calculated include all operating costs at the
mine sites, but exclude royalties, production taxes and reclamation.
Total cash costs include royalties and production taxes, but exclude
reclamation. Total production costs include reclamation and
depreciation, depletion and amortization.
( 2 ) Includes production from Diamond Hill, net of by-product credits.

SOURCE: Pegasus Gold Inc.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:10
mozel (@A_Goose Canceling all plans to take delivery from Comex. Until somebody surfaces.) ID#153102:
No pun intended.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:09
Midas__A (@All) ID#340459:
Peace and Blessings

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:06
John Disney__A (It was called the Financial Rand) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You asked if

Foreign investors get 'strong' dollars, American
citizens get weak ones ( does South Africa still
have this system? )

Answer ... No .. Systems dont work exactly
like you suggest. RSA HAD a system whereby
foreigners could buy CHEAP rands for investment
purposes only.. ie equities, BONDS, land,
houses, commercial property etc as a means
of fighting anti apartheid sanctions. I
participated in this program. It was a
slot machine. It was done away with about
4 years ago.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:01
Preacher (Tokyo Metals prices) ID#225273:

To all:

I was looking at the prices of the metals in Tokyo:
April Gold up 5 yen per gram
May siilver up .87 yen per gram
April Platinum up 10 yen per gram
April Palladium up 27 yen per gram

Does anyone know how to convert this into English?

The Preacher

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 23:01
6pak (ChasAber) ID#335190:
Welcome to this place, I hope you will enjoy. Your post at 22:21 regarding out of whack Fits the economic situations as I view such happenings.
Take Care

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:59
arden (FBI warning) ID#201239:
Folks, I heard a warning on the radio today from the head of the FBI that I should not communicate with strangers on the Internet!

How should I respond?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:53
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:
Have those Islamic Development Bank people met with Suharto yet ? You posted on a planned meeting a while back.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:52
Jack (Sorry about the triple post.) ID#252127:

Recently my posts didn't go in unless I got the
thank you for your post indication. Not getting it I kept posting. We don'have the same facilities as with a computer -with webtv.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:46
sharefin (Just a bit of practise.) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Global Intelligence Update-Red Alert
March 11, 1998

Russia Questions Motives of NATO Maneuvers

In a statement ringing of Cold War rhetoric, the Commander in Chief of the
Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Kuroyedov, questioned the motives underlying
large-scale NATO maneuvers in the North Atlantic. Kuroyedov told Russia's
Interfax news agency on March 9, Such maneuvers, involving so many troops
and weapons, forces one to ponder what is happening. Kuroyedov went on to
note that NATO's Strong Resolve 98 maneuvers are taking place despite
proposed unilateral Russian cutbacks in both forces and exercises in
northwestern Russia. He expressed surprise that Lithuania is taking part
in the exercise, as it reflected the Baltic Republics' rejection of Russian
security guarantees and confidence building measures. Kuroyedov concluded
by stating that Russia will hold its own North Atlantic exercises, though
he offered no specifics.

Strong Resolve 98: Crisis North is a large land, sea, and air territorial
defense exercise, based on a scenario in which a fictional UN member
country whose economy has collapsed attempts to wrest complete control of
shared oil and gas fields from a UN and NATO member country. Other
embellishments of the scenario include that NATO ended an armed conflict
between the two fictional countries in 1995, and that the aggressor state
had resorted, in the meantime, to a resumption in sales of arms and weapons
of mass destruction to prop up its sagging economy. The maneuvers are
scheduled to run from March 9 to March 22.

No Partnership for Peace disaster relief operation, these NATO maneuvers
involve 18,000 ground troops, over 60 vessels, 115 aircraft and 30
helicopters in the simulated repulsion of an invasion of a northern
European nation. It is not surprising that the Russians would take notice
of the event. Russia has all but announced that it intends to resume its
role as a great power, and NATO is clearly responding. The assertion that
Russia will follow with its own maneuvers is questionable. The Baltic
Fleet flagship has been tied up at dock since 1996 for lack of funds, 70
percent of the Fleet's sailors and their families are housed in barracks or
decommissioned ships, and the Fleet owes the Kaliningrad Region 400 million
redenominated rubles for power and other services. Proposed troop
reductions of 40 percent in northwestern Russia have as much to do with
Moscow's inability to pay for them as they do with peace overtures to the

What is interesting here is that NATO should be selecting such an
aggressive set of scenarios for their war games. We believe that NATO is
collectively signaling Russia that it is not only Moscow that has options.
In the wake of Russia's undermining of U.S. strategy in Iraq, this is a
message worth transmitting.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:45
ChasAbar__A (Got it. Thanks.) ID#287358:
Oh, happy day. Got a handle on the handle. Heh.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:45
clone (Dollar) ID#269245:
The US$ should go down tonight/tomorrow in response to the UN's warning of overdue payments. - c

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:45
SDRer__A () ID#28593:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
When we are compiling our list of “flash points”, we may wish to keep in mind
the commitments of the OIC, the Islamic States, Islamic money--which is GOLD...
This is an old blurb, from the Pakistan embassy, but quite to the point, I believe?

Pakistan, as Chairman of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers and the OIC Contact Group on Bosnia-Herzegovina in New York, has also played an important role in coordinating with other OIC Member States and urging the international community to take resolute action to restore peace in BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA. Pakistan has convened a number of OIC meetings including the Special OIC Ministerial Meeting on Bosnia-Herzegovina in Islamabad in July 1993 and Ministerial Meetings of the OIC Contact Group in January and April 1994 in Geneva and New York.

In our acronym plagued world, OIC = Organization Islamic Countries

Allen ( USA ) .Well. Done Lucid prose is a special joy. Sincere thanks for pleasurable reads! {:- )

JTF@Make.A.List Wouldn’t it be easier if we made a list of the things that WON’T bring the dollar down?

All.regarding.the.Arab.Bank Hope you noticed the London High Street branch, and the Frankfort branch, and the Zürich branch...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:42
Jack (Not that many gold producers with the money to buy gold from the CB's ) ID#252127:

They probably will have to take out big loans to buy the gold; such loans can conceivably ruin them. Furthermore, they play into the CB's hands.....that gold is no longer a reserve asset.

Best bet is to strike coins in gold weights and pay employees suppliers and taxes with them. Sure some of this gold will get back into the supply pipeline, but that will take time and be dependent on conditions. I wonder if a country will accept gold for tax payment? HARHAR

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:41
Jack (Not that many gold producers with the money to buy gold from the CB's ) ID#252127:

They probably will have to take out big loans to buy the gold; such loans can conceivably ruin them. Furthermore, they play into the CB's hands.....that gold is no longer a reserve asset.

Best bet is to strike coins in gold weights and pay employees suppliers and taxes with them. Sure some of this gold will get back into the supply pipeline, but that will take time and be dependent on conditions. I wonder if a country will accept gold for tax payment? HARHAR

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:41
6pak (Chretien-Albright (boycotted) SCRUMS @ Canadian T.V. Crews.) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
March 10, 1998
Canada TV crews boycott Chretien-Albright event

OTTAWA, March 10 ( Reuters ) - Canadian television crews boycotted a photo opportunity with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien and U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright on Tuesday to press a demand for greater media access to Chretien.

The Canadian Parliamentary Press Gallery urged photographers and camera crews in a letter on Monday not to take pictures of the meeting if journalists were not allowed in to ask questions.

Reporters were not allowed entry, so the television crews stayed out. But newspaper and news agency photographers went in.

Albright was making the first official visit to Canada in 10 years by a U.S. secretary of state.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:41
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Herr Jack

I'm biased, of course, but I've done my DD and LIHIR is one gold mine I do not intend to sell until I have to! The island of Lihir is an island of gold and the mine there is brand new and running to perfection! Expansion is a given and the potential is unlimited! Lihir is close to Australia and far far away from Suharto and Li Peng! It's a cash cow that can only enrich many times over those with the foresight and patience to buy and hold it! VENGOLD is my preferred way to hold it as each share is approxiamtely the equivalent of each LIHIR share and at @ 20% discount! Buy it and put it away mein Freund! By the way, Vengold ( VENGF ) was up a 16th today to $1.00 on heavy volume! The story is beginning to sink in!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:37
Jack (Not that many gold producers with the money to buy gold from the CB's ) ID#252127:

They probably will have to take out big loans to buy the gold; such loans can conceivably ruin them. Furthermore, they play into the CB's hands.....that gold is no longer a reserve asset.

Best bet is to strike coins in gold weights and pay employees suppliers and taxes with them. Sure some of this gold will get back into the supply pipeline, but that will take time and be dependent on conditions. I wonder if a country will accept gold for tax payment? HARHAR

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:36
Junior (@Allen(USA) - 20:00) ID#248180:
Copyright © 1998 Junior/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thank you for providing additional clarity. Mozel did state a similar case not long ago. We are getting very close to the identification of the Trigger. WHEN: The exact date is not so important as it is happening little by little daily. We are also close to the idenification of the REAL PLAYERS that will Trigger and set the CHANGE into motion. Then paper burns.

Indonesia will provide a catalyst and assist the REAL PLAYERS by rejecting the majority of the conditions of the IMF. My guess is that Indonesia will reveal it's BACKERS to the proposed currency board.

Ya simply gotta give Suharto a few high fives - for having the balls to say NO to the IMF. I have had a few opportunities to say to some bankers and wow what a feeling! Especially when one has alternative options.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:33
ChasAbar__A (Clarification) ID#287358:
OOPS... I intended to address my previous post to Allen ( USA ) ,
but I thought this system would automatically post my handle. It
didn't. Now I see how that has happened to others. Isn't there
a way to get it to post automatically? Please advise me at I am anything but anonymous. My handle is ChasAbar.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:32
ChasAbar__A (Clarification) ID#287358:
OOPS... I intended to address my previous post to Allen ( USA ) ,
but I thought this system would automatically post my handle. It
didn't. Now I see how that has happened to others. Isn't there
a way to get it to post automatically? Please advise me at I am anything but anonymous. My handle is ChasAbar.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:31
mozel (@Allen @SIlver) ID#153102:
Bank A to Bank B to Bank C to Bank A

Silver is down wherever it's trading.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:30
STUDIO.R (@mozel...Dueling Dollars? Huh?) ID#93232:
Greenbacks...Brownbacks...Have I missed something here? Which back have we got....? Long ethanol...per T#1quila.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:25
IDT (So when is the jig up?) ID#228128:
Allen: read your 20:00. Very interesting theory. What would cause this paper gold game to unravel? Its been working for some time.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:21
(Allen (USA)) ID#152163:
Copyright © 1998 /Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Something is wrong with the figures. I don't see how LBMA can handle
100 times the physical production of gold. That is the same as saying
they trade an entire year's production every 3.65 days. It sounds too much like the story of the two guys and the keg, or the famous Wish I owned that horse story. And even if there is absolutely no cost involved in the transactions, I can't see a scenario in which the big
traders flip their positions on such a frequent basis. I don't know why Placer Dome would intentionally mislead us, so I don't think that is the
case. Just seems that something is out of whack. I could be wrong....

All: Hello... I feel honored in joining you.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:19
DJ (What goes?) ID#215208:
Silver just dropped 21 cents? I suppose there is a good chance this is a Kitco anomaly.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:19
mozel (@JohnB) ID#153102:
@Placer Sounds like damage control before indictments are issued by federal Just-US anti-trust unit.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:17
themissinglink (Interest on debt is 23% of Federal Outlays) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 themissinglink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
GOVERNMENT 1990 1995 1996
Federal government:
Budget receipts ( $bil ) 1,032 1,352 1,427
Budget outlays ( $bil ) 1,253 1,516 1,572
Deficit ( $bil ) -221 -164 -146
Gross debt outstanding ( $bil ) 3,207 4,921 5,207
FISCAL YEAR 1988 $214,145,028,847.73 $2,350,276,890,953.00
FISCAL YEAR 1989 $240,863,231,535.71 $2,602,337,712,041.16
FISCAL YEAR 1990 $264,852,544,615.90 $2,857,430,960,187.32
FISCAL YEAR 1991 $286,021,921,181.04 $3,233,313,451,777.25
FISCAL YEAR 1992 $292,361,073,070.74 $3,665,303,351,697.03
FISCAL YEAR 1993 $292,502,219,484.25 $4,064,620,655,521.66
FISCAL YEAR 1994 $296,277,764,246.26 $4,411,488,883,139.38
FISCAL YEAR 1995 $332,413,555,030.62 $4,692,749,910,013.32
FISCAL YEAR 1996 $343,955,076,695.15 $4,973,982,900,709.39
FISCAL YEAR 1997 $355,795,834,214.66 $5,224,810,939,135.73

Last year interest was about $355 Billion. Divide that by $1.5 Trillion in budget outlays and you get 23%. Divide $355 Billion in interest by $5.2 Trillion in Gross Debt and you get 6.7% interest rate on the debt. Now you see why Greenspan and Rubin are walking such a tightrope about inflation/deflation. Inflation raises interest on the debt to oppressive levels. At 10%, debt service would be $550 Billion or 36% of this years outlay. Deflation would reduce taxable income.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgh! What do you do? BUY GOLD, THATS WHAT!


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:16
6pak (Prospectors & Developers Association of Canada (PDAC) @ Toronto ) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
March 10, 1998
Bre-X scandal haunts Canadian mining community

TORONTO, March 10 ( Reuters ) - Thousands of mining insiders gathered in Toronto on Tuesday to swap war stories and drum up investor interest, but few could dodge the ghosts of the now infamous Bre-X Minerals Ltd gold mining scandal.

Caution was the key word at this year's annual Prospectors & Developers Association of Canada ( PDAC ) convention, a sharp contrast to last year when a record number of delegates celebrated what was then believed to be one of the greatest gold finds in history.

It was at last year's convention that former Bre-X chief geologist John Felderhof was feted with the prospector of the year award for his role in discovering the Busang gold mine in Indonesia.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:15
John B__A (Placer Says There is no Gold Buy Plan) ID#77133:
Copyright © 1998 John B__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
March 10, 1998
Placer Dome - Bullion -3: Says
Comments Were Misunderstood

Dow Jones Newswires

Placer Dome Inc. ( PDG ) issued its news release in
response to a report first appearing in Barron's that
executives from Placer, Barrick Gold Corp. ( ABX ) ,
Newmont Mining Corp. ( NEM ) and Anglo American
Gold Investment Co. ( AAGIY ) formed a plan over
Christmas to buy gold from central banks in order to
prop up the sagging gold price.

The Barron's story quoted John Willson, Placer's chief
executive, as confirming the plan's existence. However,
Placer spokesman Hugh Leggatt said Barron's
misunderstood Willson's comments. He said Willson
was hypothetically discussing what gold producers could
do to help support gold prices.

Legatt stressed that the plan referred to in the Barron's
report doesn't exist.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:11
mozel (@NewGreenback) ID#153102:
They will in all likelihood try this domestic and non-domestic greenback ploy, but there are many problems with such a scheme which the passage of time does not diminish, but to the contrary magnifies. When a man hears he is being paid with weak greenbacks that don't spend in Mexico, Canada, or Aruba, he knows where he stands. And what are tourists expected to spend here: weak or strong greenbacks ? And what is an American going to have in pocket to buy a strong greenback ?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:08
HepMeMoney_Hmm (This Gold Market Is A Sham!!) ID#39971:
Copyright © 1998 HepMeMoney_Hmm/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There.Iv'e said it again,but in reponse to your post Allen ( USA ) .I assumed

most here were aware of these little factiods that seem to go amiss in

publications like the Fortune Mag rag.

Now,if you didn't know better and picked up a copy of this latest drivel,

you would have Andy Smith as the poor beleagured GoldBug of all GoldBugs

worrying to death about Gold prices,yet ending his testimony with the

point of the 35,000 tons that could come on the market.There otta be

a law.

You would have all stocks being up 1,537 %,oops,they forgot to mention

they rotated bad stocks out of the index many times since 1980.You would

have the worse case scenario presented to you ( 1980-1998 ) for gold.You

would have to assume people buy gold high and sell low.But it can't

be argued stocks have generally outperformed,but at what risk?They forgot

about the risk factor...hmmmmmmmm.Forgot TWO near-death experiences.

You would think Gold mining is a shrinking industry,let's not bother with

that little detail about increased consumption every year this last 18.

They site Newmont as having lost 50% since 1996,duh!Just forgot to say

folks who bought in 1994 did very well,thank you.Also,in comparing ABX

and Newmont,they have the former as the marquee and the later as the gold

strike mentality.We all know ABX has contributed greatly to our current

siuation,but they are the wiseguys ,right?

The example of the young man who parties on Budwiser who just got layed

off and now is looking for work in construction is another psysco job,as

this young man is depressed as the local GoldBugs here who believe gold

will stay in the 300 range for years to come and want to throw it in.

They must have looked real hard for that objective contributor.

The fund manager they found says they lost 30% last year and was flat

the year before.Huh?Many gold funds made 25 - 40% in 1995-6.Oh,they did

mention gold funds were not his main gig.Duh?Couldn't find a real gold

fund manager?This guy is also throwing in the towel if Gold doesn't go up

Must be all that smoking he does.bla bla bla

I'm sure the knowledgeable folks here have taken this latest article as

a good contrarian indicator.Now,if gold would move up just as this hits

the stands,would that not be poetic justice?Only in the USA could this

complete bulls*it be put to print and swallowed whole.Eh Allen ( USA ) ?

Must be all that freedom of speach you guys keep reminding the world of.

The song Anything Goes comes to mind here.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 22:00
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:
1. LBMA stops trading in gold. Numero uno indicatero.

2. Clinton makes speech about sacrifice ( That's HUMAN SACRIFICE for the unchurched among us )

P.S. I told you I already spent my gold.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:56
STUDIO.R (An open letter to Prince Abdullah (all rights reserved):) ID#93232:
My Dear Royal Highness Prince Abdullah:

What the hell is it going to take? Now get your butt into the King's bedroom...grab that down pillow...and take the old buzzard out of his misery. He's had a full life...but, Now's your royal time...ol' buddy.
The Kingdom is wasted....sand...sand....everywhere sand! And not one bite to eat! Give Omar a buzz....Bomb Caracas!!!! Now!

Your royal subject ( subjected to unmitigated economic abuse ) ,

Studio...Prince of Poop.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:54
JTF (US dollar in trouble? Indicators to watch for!) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
mozel,all: Mozel - You made an excellent point. We will have another 'double standard' dollar when the dollar is in trouble. As I recall, we do already to some degree, because there is a 1% excise tax if Americans take money out of the country, but nothing for non-US citizens. Am I correct that foreigners who invest in our markets do not need to pay the same capital gains taxes we do?

Early signs the US dollar is in trouble:

1 ) Gold bullion coins are now longer sold -- at any price

2 ) Foreign investors get 'strong' dollars, American citizens get weak ones ( does South Africa still have this system? )

3 ) Interest rate charges on the national debt exceed 50% of federal expenditures.

4 ) Debt monetization.

5 ) Please add! Early warning indicators of your choice!

One advantage we will have is that we will be months to years ahead of the US government, because I doubt it will act as quickly as the average Kitcoite. I think all of our retirement assests are at risk to be confiscated, although I think commodity assets such as gold and silver will be much more likely to be confiscated than 'paper' wealth, though 'windfall taxes' might be levied on gold producers, just as oil producers were taxed in the not so distant past.

All we need to do is look at Korea, and Indonesia to see that precious metals 'commodities' are 'king'.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:46
mozel (@StudioR @TZ) ID#153102:
Short methanol. Go long Ozarks. The PPT is not taking care of oil. Glad you're back.

@TZ What greener pastures ?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:46
6pak (Mozel) ID#335190:
Good Stuff & also gold.
Take Care

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:46
Oliver (Interesting article on Gold from down under) ID#242249:
Copyright © 1998 Oliver/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Why the gold industry will survive.

The price of gold is the main driving force.

There are going to be fewer companies.

They will be low-cost producers with little debt and large hedge books. If you hold shares in a gold company that has none of these three attributes then it will be taken over or it will go out of existence, unless it has particularly good exploration ground. Finally, more Australian companies will be spending more of their exploration and mining effort overseas.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:44
A.Goose () ID#20136:
Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:27
mozel ( @Whatever happened to those people who were taking Comex delivery ? )

I tried to get a response to that question yesterday with no results. Tlyer Rose and Questor are missing in action. I also would like to hear of their status. Questor was on a short fuse for delivery and Rose was still trying to straighten things out.

Anyone have more up to date information on Tlyer and Questor?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:41
Isure (Studio R) ID#368244:

I understand the problems and the money, but the 23 pounds in 18 days, thats quite a diet. Glad your back!!!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:40
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
But it is small and medium-sized firms, which have fewer avenues for
obtaining funds, that are having the toughest time.

Small and medium-sized firms account for 99 percent of Japan's total
number of companies, 80 percent of output and 70 percent of the work

Mitsubishi, Sony, the big names with the clean, neat factories have been subsidized by outsourced production to small shops and home shops paying substandard wages from the getgo. These people will soon be looking for scrap metal like the Indonesians. Japan, Inc. is devouring its substance.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:37
STUDIO.R (@All....Spill More Gasoline!....) ID#93232:
Crude Oil/Ozarka Water Index: 19.64=1 ( All-Time High )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:33
A.Goose () ID#20136:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:15
tolerant1 ( My hard drive went down again ) ID#31868:

I had to go to a non-frames version, because my frames version all of a sudden wouldn't let me post. Strange times. Hope this works for you tolerant1.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:29
tolerant1 (Lurker 777 Many thanks, appreciate it!) ID#31868:
Now back to the mochine, GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:29
Ted (Studio.R.....................and ain't HIGH-tech great) ID#330175:
I feel yer pain~~~~~~~

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:27
mozel (@6Pak ) ID#153102:
We've got more than one mark up on the wall together, friend.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:24
Jack (This from Newmont Gold Yahoo newsreleases.) ID#252127:

About Indonesian problem's potential effect on Commodities. Sugar traders beware. Metals may be last to be hit according to article.

Golden Cheesehead, whats your feeling about PNG and Lihir?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:20
6pak (Mozel @ 16:47) ID#335190:
Mozel: Put a mark on the wall, we have an issue agreement. {:- ) {:- )

Debt-Warning-Fools in debt-Feudalism-Indentured servants of banks.

I could not have stated it better. Damn, the waste of such madness, eh!
These bankers/corporations destroying good people, not for profit, but, power.
Thanks, Take Care.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:18
Lurker 777 (tolerant1 ) ID#317247:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:18
JTF (LBMA gold trading volume - a barometer of world financial healthiness) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Allen ( USA ) : There are several things you left out of your dissertation on the LBMA and gold. First your mention $2.9trillion US in gold traded per year. That is probably real gold plus gold derivatives trade. My guess is that should be compared to the non gold derivatives OTC trades of $100 trillion US per year. So -- gold trades are still less than 5% of all dollar trades. Hence the LBMA gold trade is still insignificant in this sense. So far.

As SDRer and I were discussing ( and perhaps some others ) several months ago, what is probably more important than the current ( still small ) daily trading of gold, is the rate of rise of this trading.

My intuitive guess is that the dollar volume of LBMA trading is an excellent barometer of the world's fiscal health. The rate of rise of this 'indicator' probably tells us how close we are to financial crisis, as it is highly likely the LBMA is where much of the 'secret' trades of central banks are made -- such as a secret bailour of a Brazilian or Argentinan bank. We should monitor this dollar volume carefully.

By the way, have you noticed that the USAGold site is doing this?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:15
STUDIO.R (@Isure and Teddo....) ID#93232:
Copyright © 1998 STUDIO.R/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
So I get this hair up my ear to install equipment hung off my computer so I can cut C.D.'s here at the big deal, sure!!!! Well, eighteen days later, twenty three pounds lighter and four thousand dollars might someday do it, hell, who knows!...I'm still not sure. What a royal crock of crap! Lying High Tech Bastards...all of them...There's not one Thomas Edison Jr. amoungst them. I know more than they do and I'm better lookin' too.

Well...what's this have to do with gold, you say? There's gold plated connectors everywhere ( doin' my part to sop up the CB's dump ) . How bout that croooode oil Jesus H. Christ in a Rambler in reverse! Twelve friggin' bucks a barrel and falling like Klinton's underwear. It's over ....Roy O Orbison.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:15
tolerant1 (My hard drive went down again) ID#31868:
could someone please post the address for the frames version at the top of the screen. Appreciate it. My shortcut is not functioning.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:13
aurophile (Tzadeak) ID#256326:
I will miss your posts. I will miss the input from your noble gold lineage.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 21:03
Donald__A (Japanese credit crunch blamed for string of suicides) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:58
Ted (Studio.R) ID#330175:
Welcome back ( where have you been? ) ----go 'crude'

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:58
Ray () ID#41170:
Allen- that was goood, that was varry goood! Did you have a dream or was you jest slow fishin down by the creek and it came to you. THANKS!

Yu know I always think my best after a couple of beers but I ain't convensed my WIFE of that yet.

Tally Ho

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:56
Ted (ALLEN........DOW 10,000 is gettin-------------------) ID#330175:
closer& closer~~~~~

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:56
robnoel__A (To Mozel&co.domestic and nondomestic dollar is it true? yes) ID#411112:

Sorry guys but I do have another life,drinking with the boys just got back.I just tried the address,the best thing to do is go to look for previous congress you need to go to 1995 actual date 1/31/95 when you get there scroll down to bill number enter S 307 Sen Leahy's was the sponser, if no luck you have been nipping one to many,while i've got motor mouth....this is really cool I bought myself a WEBTV,got all the big stuff at work....have to say this thing is great

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:52
The Hatt (Will Those chicken S*** Aussies Ever Go Long?) ID#294232:
Why bother even having a gold market in Australia? Their committment to gold as a precious metal is sadly lacking. Let them trade out of London!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:51
Donald__A (China to ease curbs on foreign banks (but not by much) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:49
Allen(USA) (USA defeated in (economic) war by Indonesia ?) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Indonesia continued its assault today against the US banking interests by refusing funding from the IMF. As the Indonesian Bombing continued the IMF Corp began to retreat from its frontal assault. If this continues we will be at the beaches with only water to our backs. We need full reinforcements and commitment of artillery from US citizens. said Feild Marshall Rubin.

The world watches this battle with suspended breath. The IMF forces had conquered in Thailand, Malaysia, Korea and the Philippians. No one expected such feirce resistance from Indonesia. The other nations are watching with the keenest interest. There have been reports of covert aid from the Arab oil states and others.

If the IMF forces are driven into the sea then the world will explode into World War III ( economic warfare ) .

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:48
Isure (Calling Studio R) ID#368244:

Studio Studio, wherefore art thou, we really need a little humor on this forum. I feel like if gold goes up, I'm gonna lose it, and I now think Revelations is a comedy.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:44
Snowball (Allen(USA) kudos,) ID#234218:
My congratulations and appreciation. Anyone that can decipher and present information in a way that I can understand at least half of it, gets my vote. You have been a tremendous help to me in understanding some of the theories and analysist presented on this forum.

You must have been a World's Champion connect the dots player.

Thank you

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:42
Donald__A (Foreigners bailing out of Japanese stocks tonight) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:39
rhody (@All: If silver is in such short supply, why are COMEX stocks rising?) ID#411331:
Is there anywone out there who can put these last few days of COMEX stockpile increases into perspective? Is there still a supply/demand
shortfall, and is $6 per oz silver still cheap enough to encourage excess demand? Or is this all too simplistic?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:36
Donald__A (Japan MOF says the economy is in terrible shape) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:34
Allen(USA) (Mozel) ID#255190:
You and others here ( SDRer comes to mind ) have blazed the trail. I have but paved it. I'm not an original thinker; tend to develop thinks from what is already there. You have more credit than I do in this. But I DO LOVE to drive home a point ;- )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:32
STUDIO.R (@TZADEAK*....hope it's not too late ....) ID#93232:
to bid you a fond and heartfelt farewell. I hope you will continue to post from your greener pasture. Thank you for your in-depth reporting and analyses of North American mining companies. You have been a very valuable contributor to this forum, and I trust we will hear from you in the not so distant future...Go Well, Goldbug!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:31
Allen(USA) (Carl) ID#255190:

I didn't have an oil figure to work with and so didn't want to polute the post with questionable stuff. But if you consider 'money velocity' as a factor ( turn over the money 10 times per year ) then the numbers jibe quite well, no? I do not think all oil money goes through these channels and also there may be othercommodities which use it. But oil is the big one for sure.

Any other thooughts?

BTW the Bullion Banks are the ones on the hook for this. They will be eaten alive.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:29
DJ (The four horsemen ride!) ID#215208:
Copyright © 1998 DJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I believe it was George Cole who, many moons ago, said that historically when a PM bull market takes off, all four metals move together.

Looking at the channels chart today, it struck me that with a little imagination regarding silver, all four PM's may now be moving in channels trending upward at an almost identical rate of roughly 40% per year.

Palladium broke its resistance today, with authority, demonstrating it is still in a strong upward trend. Gold and platinum may well follow, breaking out of their respective long term downward trending channels.

Let's see. This leads to March 1999 targets of:

Gold: $415

Silver: $8.80

Platinum: $545

Palladium: $350

OK with me. How about you?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:27
mozel (@Whatever happened to those people who were taking Comex delivery ?) ID#153102:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:17
Carl (Allen, I'm trying to follow your post of 20:00) ID#341189:
Am I mistaken that the world oil consumption is about 75 million b's / day? That would amount to only a little over $1 B. Even if all producers everywhere took payment in gold, we are still an order of magnitude short of the daily $ volume you cite. Something else has to be churning such large volume don't you think?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:15
sig__A (PBS News Hour) ID#210253:

Treasury Secretary Ruben's comments to Jim Lehrer/News Hour were thoughtful, but most of all cautious. It seemed to me Lehrer was almost afraid of what Ruben's answers were going to be, particularly regarding speculation as to Suharto's next move. Interesting that there was no dialogue on how a currency board might work instead of IMF prescription. Give the Secretary credit, he was at least honest in his answer regarding the eventual outcome.

Does anyone else smell smoke?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:14
panda (Platinum and Palladium) ID#30116:
Same old PL/PA news out of Russia... When will they deliver..

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:14
mozel (@Allen) ID#153102:
Too bad copyright wasn't on when I posted that a while back. I'm glad you've got it though. And I didn't extrapolate all the numbers so it would be plainer than the nose on a face like you did. After reading your post, who could not understand what's really going down in the middle east now ? BTW I'm not so sure Comex isn't under control.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:11
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Pulitzer Prize for best Gold Post at Kitco this Year!) ID#431263:
Goes to you Allen, Mein Freund! I LIKE your analysis and I LOVE your CONCLUSION! Your post and others like it are why I stay here! Viele Dank mein Freund!!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:10
APH (Gold & Silver) ID#25588:
Dan Ascani Global Market Strategist, whose timing is pretty good but not his trades recommended buying Gold and Silver on his hot line tonight.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:07
aurophile (ooooooooops) ID#256326:
lurker 777 that is....

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:06
aurophile (Lurker&&&) ID#256326:
thanks for posting that january message from you know who. and the latest. i have not followed his/her messages but have been amused by the critical reviews. i do think that BIS and the US, as large holders of gold, must not want to see it get away to the downside like pork bellies and crude oil. it's time.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:05
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:
Why didn't I think of that ? He's a Boobus Maximus. By my count there is no more than 2% that aren't.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 20:00
Allen(USA) (Oliver@15:11 Let's think about those numbers ..) ID#255190:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The article in which Placer Dome denies being involved in talks to buy back gold had numners we must consider.

LBMA is trading 1,200 tonnes per day,
or 300,000 tonnes per year.

The physical market is approx 3,000 tonnes per yr.

LBMA market is 100 times the physical production.

LBMA trading is 41% of the YEARLY gold production of this planet.

The CB's have an estimated 35,000 tonnes.

The LBMA trades 10 times this amount per year.
The LBMA trades 1000 times as much gold in a year as the CB's sell in an average year.

LBMA trades 11.5 BILLION US$ of gold per day.
LBMA trades 2.9 TRILLION US$ of gold per year.

What is wrong with this picture?
Why is gold being traded so furiously in London?

First we notice the immense size of this market in relationship to the approx 45,000 tonnes that may be available for trade ( CB's have 35,000 which leaves 85,000. Considering a 50/50 split between dispersed gold in small hands and concentrated gold in big hands approx 42-43,000 or so ) .

If gold were being used as a currency by very big money ( oil ) where at some time in the past paper certificates in LBMA were backed 100% by gold NOW we see a *fractional reserve banking* with more paper outstanding in the 'gold payment system' than exists.

The LBMA is the payment system for a gold currency being used by very big money ( oil ) and those who deal with them in big money transactions. The bullion banks are the 'banks' of these interests. COMEX is a joke but like a burr under their saddle. COMEX is like a free market whereas LBMA is like a payment system. The payment system in one sense is vulnerable to the machinations of this 'free market' venue.

I believe the LBMA is the 800# gorilla. They are the market and payment system for oil money from conservative Muslim states. The payment system inflated the 'currency' but this has come back to haunt them. Remember in the 1800's when a bank held gold and silver as assets. When a bank was rumored to have insufficient gold to cover deposits then there was a bank run as people cashed in their paper money for gold.

This same scenario is what ANOTHER has been alluding to here. The system is precariously close to collapse. Its just a matter of when, not if. The fractional gold reserve can't be reversed because then gold would disappear from the physical market an this would precipitate a gold panic. The oil state ( s ) who now know what the story is have been accumulating gold and will not wait for this to HAPPEN to them; they will choose their time make it happen.

Whatever might cause the gold market to escalate in price uncontrollably will be the trigger. As for now the CB's in concert with the LBMAers and Bullion Banker have been steadily moving the gold price down in an effort to discourage speculation or 'running for cover' due to crises. But shorts have joined in here and this will get out of their control.

The LMBA controls the price just so long as no one knows they set the price arbitrarily. If they were to obvious then alot of people would figure out that the 'market' is not really about gold, but about oil. They have slowly moved oil down but now have painted themselves into a corner with no way out.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:48
He's being grilled right now on Crossfire by Pat Buchanen!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:47
SDRer__A (Well....wonderful how all the loose ends are being resolved) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
FT Tues, Mar--I don't remember! Let's keep horological time, OK
US reporter apologises for Clinton sex story
David Brock, the reporter whose 1993 magazine article sowed the seeds of
the White House sex scandal, has apologised to President Bill Clinton, saying the president's RIGHT WING ENEMIES were behind the story. Mr Brock said he now doubted the story's accuracy saying there were ''definitely political forces at work''. He said he now realised that some of the story that the four state troopers told him of procuring women for the then-governor of Arkansas was ''exaggerated or embellished''.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:45
TZADEAK* (@ Donald et al .....) ID#372344:
No Donald, that last btw statement was made tongue 'n cheek..... has been a blast....... Good luck to all.....

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:44
Can gold serve as a catalyst in catalytic converters or is it too NOBLE?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:43
OURO__A (APH) ID#237149:
Let's see what happens...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:40
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Palladium more precious than GOLD?) ID#431263:
$45 more and Palladium exceeds Gold in price! Can you believe it? Shoulda' sold my gold when it was $500 and bought Palladium when it was $75!!! Could the same thing happen with silver?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:34
IDT (Platinum and Paladium are on a tear tonight) ID#228128:
Lets hope that they lead the way up for gold and silver. Golds got to move. I'm running out of fingernails to bite.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:29
Copyright © 1998 GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Camdessus very negative about Indonesia's progress and cooperation.

Pictures on PBS show jobless Indonesian's rummaging through garbage landfills looking for food and scrap items to be sold. Rupiah has lost 80% of its value. People cannot afford food. People desperate for work and money. The dream for most Indonesian's is now over. Big resurgence in Islam. Fertile breading ground for Islamic fundamentalism. 5% Chinese own 70% of businesses and are now the object of pogroms to get rid of them! ( Reminiscent of Nazi pogroms against Jews ) . Economic refugees flooding into Jakarta desperate for work but there is none. Inflation over 100%! Chinese hoarding goods and scarcity and price of goods is increasing tensions. Fourth largest country in the world bankrupt and corrupt--prescription for revolution! Rubin calls it a very serious and difficult situation for US. Reform and strong currency are two sides of the same issue. Both are necessary if Indonesia is to recover. IMF will delay $3 billion till April. US will need to ante up more to help bring this about. Rubin admits that $3 billion won't solve the problem! Confidence is needed and no confidence without reform! ( IMF REFORM!!! ) Suharto will have none of it! Possibility of contagion spreading from Indonesia to her neighbors and to the US! Rubin says we're in a new world with new risks never faced before. No one can predict what will happen or when, but it is critical that US be prepard to help in whatever way we can. Every American has a stake with what happens in Indonesia. Must support the IMF with full funding!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:26
Argent (All - Heed Prometheus!) ID#255217:
I hate to use up bandwidth in simple agreement, but feel compelled to do so. Coin dealers are justly paranoid. Big Brother is everywhere. It's best to select your local coin dealer with great care and get to know him well.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:25
SDRer__A (Avalon--We meet on common ground,) ID#288156:
I don't understand your question...let them laugh at both
of us! {:- )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:12
Voyeur Professor (On pompous bores!) ID#231101:

2 Bro2B’s post at 18:06 prompts in me an uncharitable urge to respond. Either he represents a member of my profession who has lost his lectern or he has lost his way to a Sunday speech at Hyde Park. His merciless indifference to ennui reminds me of Churchill’s comment on a member of the House of Commons whom he found particularly boring. As the culprit passed by Churchill who was standing with a friend, Churchill quipped, There but for the grace of God, goes God.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:12
Donald__A (Chilean pension funds showing negative yield) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:11
Prometheus (@mozel) ID#210235:
It is only a guess, but that BOOBUS AMERICANUS you say insisted upon collecting the sales tax probably wasn't previously known to you, nor you to him. These are not normal times, and chances are your coin dealer is half-paranoid himself.

Why here we had a major sting operation in which underage teens hit up store keepers to sell them a pack of cigarettes. Hundred of nice guys were caught in the sticky government web. Now every shop has large posters claiming they demand ID to sell a pack.

At least the dealer sells items of value, and it's not worth risking his business license to offer the govt. an excuse to put him out of business. It's a shame it's come to this, but people really don't feel comfortable dealing with even one individual who is not well known. A witness isn't necessary, with routine surveillance techniques being so small and sophisticated. Chalk it up to the times, and go befriend the coin dealer.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:10
Avalon (Question for SDR_er; Just saw your earlier post today about a large unnamed ) ID#254269:

bank cutting its risk management staff. I am confused ( oj\kay everyone; please stop laughing ) . Why would they ( whoever they are ) , cut their staff in these times ?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:06
Avalon (@ Nick @ C; Just saw your 3.13 (or whatever it was). Do they have electicity ) ID#254269:
back on in NZ yet ? There was an article in the Dallas paper yesterday about that story. My posts have been very infrequent lately; this out of office project may go on for a little while longer. Best regards.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:05
Donald__A (Indonesia) ID#26793:
PBS is just starting a story about their troubles in my time zone.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 19:01
SDRer__A ( is the PRIMA Islamic Bank...take a look...fair assessment?) ID#288156:
...depositors in Palestine panicked and rushed to withdraw their deposits from the banks. In response, the Mandate government issued a special ordinance for banks specifying proportions for the withdrawal of money during certain periods and declaring its readiness to provide the banks with financial assistance if necessary.

Arab Bank continued to pay all depositors on demand, a policy it has maintained in all countries to this day.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:57
Realistic (Correction - COMEX DATA) ID#410194:
It should have read:

Copper: Fell 336 short tonnes to 116,599


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:56
Prometheus (@robnoel) ID#210235:
Looked at s. 307. Couldn't find the reference. Could you run that bill number by us again?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:54
Realistic (COMEX DATA) ID#410194:
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 32 troy ounces to 478,974

Silver: Rose 192,885 troy ounces to 90,990,192

Copper: Fell 36 short tonnes to 116,599

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:53
jman (oops) ID#251268:
sorry there =their

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:52
Neophyte (FORTUNE article on gold) ID#390249:
The attached article on gold quotes Andy Smith extensively and actually makes you almost feel sorry for him. I find the article somewhat humorous and bullish. Sentiment can't get worse and I hear over and over again, the best time to invest in something is when sentiment is at rock bottom.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:51
Lurker 777 () ID#317247:
Copyright © 1998 Lurker 777/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Another has predicted without any doubt that Gold will not close lower than $280. and the bottom is in. HE WAS CORRECT!

Date: Sat Jan 10 1998 21:03
Hear me now, if gold tries to go lower than US$ $280 the BIS will buy it OUTRIGHT in the OPEN for all to see! They must! They will! I know. For no currency system could stand if Oil were to bid for gold!

Now check out the chart and tell me what you see? The charts don't lie!


And now we have Anothers post from 3/9/98:
A large purchase, now, is sending another message, “bring gold back into $320 to $360 US$ range. We should see this in five to ten days.

If Another is correct about gold spiking up to $320-$360 by the 18th of March we owe him our respect and thanks for contributing to our Forum at Kitco. I don't care who Another is, all I care about is IF HE IS RIGHT!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:51
jman (miles,Coopers) ID#251268:
I found there beer kits with several U.S. ( search homebrew )
most of the kits are for beginers,they are hard to screw up
and they come pretty much complete with all you need for a
decent batch,but it is cheaper and lots more interesting to
make your own once you get the hang of it and you can use

liquid yeast cultures ( keep a starter,something like sourdough bread )
plus choose your own hoping methods but the kits are great place to start

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:50
Ray (thanks) ID#41170:
Have any of you goldbugs had a solication or experience with The Winners Circle, iffin you have how bout givin me a holler

Tally Ho

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:40
Snowball (Federal comments on Y2K) ID#234218:
For any of those that are interested, there a some links at ( ) dealing with Feds problems and predictions on Y2K. Seems they are trying to hire retired programmers and need about 1/2 a billion bucks.

Sorry, I don't know how to post websites ( I hates computers ) , and I hates I.E. 4.0 @#&*@, but I do like gold. Just ordered my 1st batch of Phillies. I cain't wait. Might sell one of the youngins and buy some more. They is fun to make!!!!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:32
TYoung (Donald_A never ever cease to do what you do so well!!!) ID#317193:
Loved the article on J.P. Morgan. DUCK-farfel is correct. Tom

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:32
Hedgehog (Donald_A Thanks for the thoughts.) ID#39845:
Best paid job in South Korea could be rumaging through garbage
heaps for metal. Come to think of it my interest in metals came
when I started collecting pewter goblets, mugs and plates for
peanuts like 20 cents an item ( at garage sales and sunday markets ) . Funny how I got a mountain of the stuff. Everyone justs laughs. Hey, but I'm happy with the investment.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:31
miles__A (Auric@beer) ID#351224:
Found out that Coopers Brewery are organising new North American distributors.
If you e-mail he will be able to tell you!
Cheers for now.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:30
mozel (@robnoel) ID#153102:
Great lookup. My, my, if it is what it seems, they do plan ahead and creep while we sleep.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:28
Donald__A (Saudi's deny King has had surgery) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:26
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (2bro2b) ID#431263:
One more book review post like your last one and you're outa' here, gone, slammed, mein Freund! If you insist on posting such pseudo-intellectual bullscheiss go post it on AOL where it will surely find its intended pseudo-intellectual audience! Quit wastin' our precious bandwith!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:24
APH (OURO) ID#25588:
Yes, sell at 6.40 use a 3 or 4 cent stop.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:23
Donald__A (IMF did blink first over Indonesia. There has got to be some banks sweating this one!) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:19
jman (Golden Cheesehead) ID#251268:
you tell him !!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:16
jman (Korea) ID#251268:
summers coming up so next sell the winter coats

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:14
SDRer__A (How does one say, in Chinese, Get while the getting is good?) ID#28594:
South China Business Post Wed Mar 10 1998
Red chip launches US$150m bond sale
Beijing Enterprises Investments, the parent of Beijing Enterprises Holdings, last night launched a US$150 million exchangeable bond sale - the third such sale by red-chip holding companies in the past month.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:14
robnoel__A (Mozel,my little search engine worked well here it is) ID#410198: if that does not work just go to Sen Leahy was the sponser S307 is the bill number the date 1/31/95,it refers to nondomestic and domestic,don't worry buddy you are not crazy

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:14
jman (buying phisical,) ID#251268:
Copyright © 1998 jman All rights reserved
going back to my goldbug friend,he was through making money
and only paid cash ( preferably gold ) for what he needed but
he developed friends ( mostly independent business owners like
rest.owners and such that were more than happy to by what ever
he was selling ) who he could do business,now of course he had
dicipline not to talk and so did his asociates,now I know this
sounds overly simple but it is done every day in every town
and city,so everyone who is in the market to buy should strive
to find the right person who is going to always be in the market
to sell.I'm sure all of the dealers on this site know people
like this,it's just by its very nature secretive,but if you
aint lookin you aint gonna find that special business relationship

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:14
Donald__A (@Hedgehog) ID#26793:
I have withdrawn my favorable comments on Korea now that they have started a drive to collect silver from the public as they did with gold. ( just in case you missed it )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:12
Suspicious (LSteve ? Slaves in our own land is a number) ID#287312:
Sometimes I ask people this question. If the Government took all your pay would you consider yourself a slave ? The answer is always of coarse yes. Then I ask, well what about 90%. The answer is still always yes. Then I ask, well tell me please, at what percentage do you become a slave. You seldom get an answer, but you certinly provoke thought.
I contend that we are almost there. All they lack is removing the guns.
Slick has worked on that one hard.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:11
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (2bro2b) ID#431263:
What the hell has your last post to do with gold. Gott im Himmel what a waste of precious bandwith!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:09
mozel (@LSteve) ID#153102:
The dumb and docile act has convinced me. All I see is lines of sheeple rushing to the post office before 12 pm every April 15. If people don't do anything when they are white and blue collar slaves for 50% or more of their working lives, I don't see that 75% to 80% will faze them.

Maybe you didn't see my post about home inspections. They will collect those firearms one inspection at a time in the interest of public safety. They will sit you outside the door for the inspection and when they walk out, they will have your firearm. And your gold, too.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:09
Donald__A (Bank of Israel worries about exchange rate risk of borrowers) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:06
2BR02B? (@iris murdoch) ID#266105:

Book review in The Wall Street Journal circa 1992 titled The Novelist as Philosopher

The English writer Iris Murdoch is best known as a novelist. But anyone who has
dipped into one or two of her 24 novels will have recognized that she is also a passionate
and articulate philosophical moralist. Philosophy was originally Dame Iris' profession as
well as her calling, and students of contemporary philosophy will remember gratefully that,
in addition to here immense literary output, she is the author of several short but unusually
compelling philosophical works: on Jean-Paul Sarte, on Plato and on moral philosophy.

Metaphysics as a Guide to Morals ( Allen Lane/Penguin, 520 pgs., $35 ) is a kind
of summary and elaboration of Dame Iris's philosophical views. By far the longest of her
philosophical works, it represents a reworking of her contribution to the Gifford Lectures
on Natural Religion. This venerable Scottish lecture series has been occasion for many
important books, including William James's Varieties of Religious Experience.

Experience has taught most of us to regard titles including the word Metaphysics
as a bit of a yawn. Adding the word Morals doesn't help much. But anyone who has
even the slightest interest in philosophical matters will find Metaphysics as a Guide to
Morals an utterly absorbing book. It deals with an impressive range of philosophical
figures, from Plato to French deconstructionist Jacque Derrida, whose nihilistic philos-
ophical hi jinks come in for some polite but withering criticism. She is especially shrewd
in pinpointing the deep affinity, the holding hands under the table, of deconstruction
and Marxism.

Dame Iris touches on an ambitious range of philosophical topics, including ( to quote
a few chapter titles ) Notes on Will and Duty, Imagination, Morals and Politics
and Axioms, Duties, Eros. Despite its standard pantheon of figures and subjects,
however, her book is by no means and ordinary academic tract. For one thing, Dame
Iris writes beautifully. For another, she writes about important matters-- philosophy
in the old, not the academic sense-- and she is not given to sterile logic chopping.

Of course there is something slyly paradoxical about the title of this book. How can
metaphysics, the most rarified branch of philosophical speculation, be a guide to morals,
the most concrete and down-to-earth? The answer is summed up in Dame Iris' abiding
conviction that life is a pilgrimage from appearance to reality.

At the center of Dame Iris' thinking are the ideas that life is a journey, the undertaking
of which is a moral imperative, and that the achievement of insight is tantamount to the recognition of virtue. In this context she speaks of ( in another favorite image ) the disturbing magnetism of truth. Metaphysics is a guide to morals to the extent that seeing
through appearances to the naturee of things is itself a moral act. The good and the just
life, she writes, is a process of clarification.

As Dame Iris' language suggests, the presiding philosophical spirit in this book is Plato.
( insert--PlayDough? ; ) As she puts it in her concluding pages, she has attempted to use
Plato's images as a sort of Ontological Proof of the necessity of the put his
argument into a modern context as a background to moral philosophy. The modern
context means partly that Dame Iris's version of Plato has been weaned on the chastening
philosophy of Ludwig Wittgenstein, partly that she sees philosophy very much as an everyday challenge. Everyone, she writes, every moral being, that is every human
being, is involved in this fight; it is not reserved for philosophers, artists and scientists.

In the broadest terms, this book is an effort to think through the future of morality
in an age that is not only postmodern but also increasingly post-Christian and, indeed,
post philosophical. Hence her conviction that We need a theology which can continue
without God. In this respect, Dame Iris follows that most modern of 19th-century
German philosophers, Freidrich Nietzche, she believes that the traditional edifice of
Western thinking about morality- built up since the Greeks-- is now crumbling and
that some entirely new mode of thinking is coming to be.

It is part of the modern predicament Dame Iris describes that philosophy can tell
us very little about the nature of this new mode of thinking. The revolution of modernity
is as much a revolution in intuition and feeling as in thought. Metaphysical problems,
she observes, now reach the popular consciousness in the form of a sense of loss.
In this situation, philosophy functions like the voice of conscience, saying little except
no. For clues about the brave new world that is emerging around us, Dame Iris turns
to the insights furnished by art. The way we grasp the world changes, and the artist
knows first, like the animals whose behavior foretells an earthquake.

The great irony that attaches to this book, as to all books seeking to expatiate on
the good life, is that theorizing about morality is typically at right angles from the
practice of morality. Dame Iris is fully aware of the irony. There is an important
difference, she writes, between learning about virtue and practising it, and the former
can indeed be a delusive substitute which effectively prevents the latter. It is a measure
of Dame Iris's power and charm as a writer that her meditations on such weighty subjects
confess their vulnerability and imperfection while at the same time they remind us poignantly of ours.


Whew, lotta typing. Read that when published, a slow, tedious slog assuming
an interested reader would bring alot more philosophical background to the task
than mine. Reviewed by a Roger Kimball, I think it reviews well if I recall. My spouse
has read a novel or two of popular Murdoch's and says their of a philosophical subtext.
Ms. Murdoch has a new one just out, looks interesting, and there are some websites
concering her work and thought. I've much more from other sources in similar vein
for later.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:04
James (Charest@A shotgun wedding) ID#252150:
Selby--When Johnson stepped down from the leadership of the liberals in Quebec he really screwed Charest. The last thing that Charest wants to do
is face Bouchard in an election. He would have much prefered to take his chances in Ottawa & try for the big prize. He is forced to take over the liberals & will be branded as an apologist for the feds by the P.Q.

He's a good speaker, but should find a new hairdresser. He always looks like he just stuck his finger in an electrical socket.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 18:04
Donald__A (What does J.P. Morgan and Wylie E. Coyote have in common? Risk Management tools.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:52
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:
How about currency terrorists or irresponsible elements of dissuasion or hoarders.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:52
Rob (Another) ID#410114:
Hmmmm? Another has to disapear just as the Saudi King is on his death bed.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:50
Hedgehog (IMF has started peddling in reverse re Indonesia) ID#39845:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
IMF says ready to be flexible on Indonesia reforms

WASHINGTON, March 10 ( Reuters ) - The deputy head of the International Monetary Fund said
on Tuesday that the fund was ready to be flexible on its reform program with Indonesia and that a
currency board could work if preconditions were met.

IMF First Deputy Managing Director Stanley Fischer also told a news conference that the IMF
was watching the humanitarian aspects of the debate about whether to release another installment
of its $10 billion loan to Indonesia.

Australia has led a chorus of those saying that the tough IMF reform package could fuel civil
unrest. ``We are mindful of the potential tragic consequences of events taking place in Indonesia,''
Fischer said. He added: ``We are at the time when the essential need is to deal with...major
humanitarian problems that could be arising there.''

Fischer, in comments somewhat more conciliatory than those made by the IMF on Monday, also
said that a currency board could work in Indonesia if the right preconditions were met regarding
the banking sector and corporate debt problems.

He did not know whether Indonesia had abandoned the idea, which the IMF has criticized in the
past. Managing Director Michel Camdessus said on Monday that a currency board, which would
peg the rupiah to the dollar and link cash in circulation to central bank reserves, was ``surrealistic.''

Fischer said that the IMF was ready to be flexible when it renegotiated the program with
Indonesia. ``There is reason for flexibility,'' he said, noting that circumstances had changed since
the deal was signed. ``Fiscal and monetary policies could be reset. That flexibility is inherent in
every IMF program.''

Fischer also said a successful conclusion of the IMF's review of the Indonesia program could
boost the rupiah, which has been under sustained pressure.

``If the review is successful ... one could see the exchange rate appreciate,'' he said.

IMF officials have said they will not be in a position to decide whether to make additional money
available to Indonesia before April because a government is not yet in place and a string of
structural measures needs to be introduced.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:50
robnoel__A (Mozel,congress passed a bill not sure of the number,for an internal and external dollar,) ID#410198:
stay tuned I will get my search engine to run it down

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:48
Donald__A (@Prometheus) ID#26793:
You might want to read a book titled Money Meltdown by Judy Shelton. It is a great book. I know where you can get a bargin priced copy but don't want to break Bart's rules on advertising. If you are interested contact me at:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:44
mozel (@Boobus Americanus) ID#153102:
The coin dealer insisted on sales tax for the coin. I asked him if he had a quarter in the till. Then I gave him two dimes and a nickel for it. When I pointed out that charging sales tax on the coin was the same as collecting a tax for making change as he just had done, he retorted that the banks charge for making change.

My conclusion is that if you live in a country where shopkeepers don't know the difference between a bank and the government, you shouldn't look for improvement near term.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:42
SDRer__A (Some stories are of great interest, NOT for what they say as much ) ID#288155:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
as much as for the fact they make a statment about a particular concern.
The China 'more gold being bought' story was in this category. And so is this--we here at Kitco, happen to know that China has a VERY high caliber futures engineering shop up and running...which is dealing in financial derivatives...BELIEVE IT! Why this story, why now? It is a question one asks quite frequently, yes?

Hong Kong Business Standard, Wed Mar 10 1998
Call for selective derivatives

BEIJING should develop selective financial derivatives, including foreign exchange futures and swaps, to provide hedging tools for domestic firms, the Financial News said on Tuesday.

Beijing should set up a foreign exchange futures trading centre in Shanghai as part of a pilot scheme to develop financial derivatives, the newspaper said.

At present, the Shanghai-based China Foreign Exchange Trade System, the national foreign exchange market, only conducts spot currency tradings.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:39
LSteve (@slaves in our own land) ID#318321:
Copyright © 1998 LSteve/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You know if we're going to be slaves in our own land, we're going to be well armed slaves ( +200,000,000 guns ) . Also once one begins to notice that they are a slave they're productivity goes to heck. Then the oppressors can't pay the paramilitary. Even if they print paper like crazy, it'll have no value. We'll succumb to anarchy and the 'powers that be' won't be able to hold it together. I think that we are at a stage where they have to be very careful about what yokes they throw on us. We are not as dumb or docile as we seem to be. Buy gold it will have value when the paper has no value, and if the paper continues to be strong then one is given an opportunity to acquire an even greater amount of gold. My $0.02.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:38
Prometheus (@mozel) ID#210235:
I'll keep an eye out. Wonder what excuse they'll come up up with for the next batch of laws. Seems to be a shift from drug war to anti-terrorist control. Any excuse will do. Or even none. Just name another czar - czars don't have to answer to anyone! ( We all know where czars end up, though, don't we. )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:38
James (Tzadeak@Greener pastures--are you going to service the young fillies?) ID#252150:
I'm sure most of us read & appreciate your posts--even though you've been dead wrong about Japan.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:37
Silverbaron (HighRise @ debt monetization) ID#288295:
Here's the passage from D.Casey's book I remembered ......This process, the monetization of debt, is the actual engine of inflation. The Fed, which regulates the money supply, buys government debt and credits the government's account with dollars. The more debt the government floats, the more the Fed is likely to buy and the more dollars are created. The quick rise of Fed debt holdings during the 60's was in good part responsible for the inflation of the 70's. The relative decline in holdings at the end of the 70's helps to account for the lower levels of inflation we had during the 80's. There's always a time lag between monetary inflation and the price inflation that results from it. ( Milton Friedman once made a case that the lag averaged about two years. ) In fact, there are so many other influencing factors ( capital movements, tax structures, fiscal policy, debt levels, and general market psychology ) that the average is a very poor guide. The only certainty is that persistent high rates of monetary inflation lead to price inflation....The recent influsion of supermoney accounts in good part for the stock market remaining at high levels. The effect of this credit inflation on consumer prices will not show up for X amount of time. But it WILL occur.....

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:34
mozel (@TheMissingLink) ID#153102:
Re: financing cold wars and monetizing debt, I think you need to go in for a link check.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:24
SDRer__A () ID#288155:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
HongKong Standard Business Post
Last Updated: 02:48:06 Wed 11 Mar 1998

Banks hold back Jakarta loans

Indonesia saw funding further dry up on Tuesday with the World
Bank and the Asian Development Bank ( ADB ) deciding to delay some US$2.5 billion ( HK$19.5 billion ) worth of loans to the crisis-bound
state. The World Bank said it would delay a US$1 billion loan to
Indonesia until it makes clear its reform efforts, while the ADB said in Manila it was delaying the disbursement of a US$1.5 billion loan to fund financial reforms in the wake of Indonesia's stand-off with the International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) I don't know that there is much more I can share
without compromising my source--or worse yet--betraying an implicit
trust. Suffice to say, in today's world, it is NEVER a 'single' bank
in trouble...they are all chained--for better or worse--around the waist!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:21
HenryD (No offense meant ... Sidney = Sydney) ID#36156:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:19
Oliver (Saudi pole shaking oil and gold) ID#242249:
Copyright © 1998 Oliver/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Michael Shaefer the author of a newsletter called Outstanding
Investments in the Natural Sector wrote a report called Oil Shock. In
that report Robert Meir who is described as a widely respected
geopolitcal analyst gave his views on the Saudi Situation and the
problems in the Mideast. His salient points were:

1. Saudi Arabia only came into existence in the 1930's, when one of the warring tribes in the area with the support of the British conquered the other tribes. Ibn Saud, the leader of the victor tribe, promptly executed the chiefs of 18 conqured tribes. His allies executed an additional 40,0000 people and amputed limbs from another 350,000 people ( total population 4 million ) This means 1 out of every 11 folks in the country were killed or maimed. Needless to say this has sown the seeds of discontent in the country.
2. Since the 70's King Fahd has been keeping the disgruntled tribes loyal by buying them with welfare programs, jobs, allowances, etc.
3. Fahd is 75 year old and a few years ago declared that his successor
need not be his half brother but should be the best prince for the job. This according to the author creates a prospect for violent internecine squabbles between dozens of hopelessly corrupt, degenerate sub-family and tribal groups, some still practicing slavery.
4. High probability of a collapse of the government in the next several years. He is betting on a bloody civil war with the U.S. caught in the middle. He confirms that the likely successor is Prince Abdullah is noted for his anti-American views.

Stolen from SI, the opposite from the norm.For a
Little Joe, Mar 10 1998 1:23PM

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:17
HenryD (SWP1 - I did that before. It's what prompted my question.) ID#36156:
The spot GOLD chart is calibrated on New York time. I can clearly see the gap between the NY close and the Sidney open. I just wondered why Kitco's frame ( on the left ) says the markets are open halfway through the gap.

But not to worry. It's not the sort of question I should have asked of you guys anyway ... you all got better things to do with the bandwidth, and your time is better spent on-topic.

HenryD - flatlinesconfuseme!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:16
Hedgehog (SDRer_A Can you tell me if I'm getting warm? ) ID#39845:
Jardine Fleming.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:15
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The NewGreenback prediction is the result of elementary deduction, my dear Watson.
You have a bankrupt government of federal mafia ( with state and local government Quislings ) ruling by martial law that wishes to keep up the pretense of being Constitutional so its true nature will not be revealed and alarm the conquered of the occupied countries. It needs and wants to stay in bankruptcy and outside the Constitution. So, when its corporations have a need to conduct business offshore in gold after oil bids for gold, it will need to provide them with a vehicle. Boobus Americanus will never even know there is an international greenback. It will be announced in one line in the nightly news. The corporate employees that do notice, that realize the significance, will be co-opted by their own self-interest in the corporation that employee them. More currency reporting and controls will be enacted and tax law revisions. It will all be announced as part of a reform package.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:15
Prometheus (@mozel) ID#210235:
Dear sir, your post brought back to me an image of my youth, during the Nixon years, walking along a rocky beach where I was first informed of future problems with US currency. A kind, wealthy gentleman of my acquaintance explained to me things which didn't come to pass for many years, and were unthinkable at the time, such the many controls on transactions as we now experience in the name of the drug war, and the degradation of the currency with no gold backing. He told me that smart money was moving offshore, and much more. It was a memorable day, the first I had an inkling of such matters.

When I hear such a claim as you have just said - I listen! Could you please elaborate?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:13
HighRise (Silverbaron) ID#401460:

We are one day closer.
Look on the bright side - this could be june 97.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:08
Hedgehog (Sheu Yuan- dong successor. Put me in the positive column.) ID#39845:

PERNG FAI-NAN, 59, CHAIRMAN of the International Commercial Bank of China; to
be Taiwan's new central bank governor; in Taipei; Feb. 25. Peng replaces Sheu Yuan-dong, who
died in a China Airlines crash on Feb. 16. Recognized as deeply conservative, Peng recently said:
Over-reliance on foreign funds triggered the foreign exchange turmoil in Southeast Asia. We must
learn from the crisis. He earned a reputation as the killer of the foreign-exchange market among
currency traders because of his tough stance on speculation.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:07
themissinglink (Monetizing the debt) ID#373403:
I am all for this. I would rather get rid of the debt and take my bitter pill now than live through the next major cold war without the ability to raise capital. I am still young.

Interest already eats up 15% of the federal budget and that is with today's low interest rates.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:05
BillD (SDRer_A ....) ID#258427:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:04
Silverbaron (Ray) ID#288295:
I keep telling myself....think LONG TERM.....think LONG TERM....Er - Go Gold ( pretty please ) !

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:03
Selby (Cherest considering) ID#286230:
Ted: I hope you still have some C$ to change. Cherest considering running for Quebec Liberal party and if he does announce a bounce in the C4 is likely for a while. Lucifer Bouchard may call a snap election before Cherest can get his act together and then the C$ will fall. A window opens--maybe. I'm getting my LandsEnd order ready.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:03
SWP1 (@henry D - try clickiin on the chart at the left and take a look see) ID#233199:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:02
SWP1 (@henry D - try clickiin on the chart at the left and take a look see) ID#233199:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 17:01
SDRer__A (Luncheon Intelligence--so, no attribution and I shall speak in the most general terms...) ID#288155:

One of the most prestigious international investment banks is shifting key personnel out of their risk management operations...things are coming seriously unraveled.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:57
Ray () ID#41170:
tolerant1- I agree with you that you better get in iffin you intend
to get in. Those waiting for a CONFORMATION will miss the first
1000% move and that first move is the way to make MEGA profits.
Everyone has their own risk/pain tolerance lever. That's what makes
winners and losers.

I have never seen so many signs of the obvious. You can't imagine
how HIGH these things are gona go. All the gold shares are equal to half the value of Exxon. DAMN!

Tally Ho

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:53
Prometheus (@mozel) ID#210235:
What's your source on the New Greenback?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:51
OURO__A (APH) ID#237149:
I agree with your reasoning and I'm still for shorting Silver. I believe it will still hit at least $6.00 before the end of the week. Do you believe to short silver is reasonable with today's closing?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:50
Allen(USA) (HighRise@15:37 Bond Buy Back) ID#246224:
Copyright © 1998 Allen(USA)/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Sounds like a deal was worked out with Japan/China/Asia for an orderly grey market liquidation of these bonds for cash in an effort to forstall continued collapse in the region. I notice this comes as Indonesia has basicly refused the IMF 'medicine', which will certainly put another hole into the bottom of this fast sinking boat. Possibly related to these 'derivative losses' buriied in the books of so many corporations and financial institutions?

We ARE in a new era with regard to financial and economic issues: Orwellian speak. These supposedly 'free' markets and societies will become every more closed and controlled. We may end up looking alot like so called 'socialist' planned economies as our leaders tread a path to oblivion. I suppose the world is just 'to large to fail' now and no one will tolerate hard times. Yet, the best laid plans of mice and men ...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:47
HenryD (Anyone ... why the two-and-a-half hour gap?) ID#36156:
Kitco's frame on the left says the markets open at 1530Hrs but the next exchange doesn't open until 1800Hrs. Sorry for the dumb question, but why?


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:47
mozel (@HighRise @6Pak @NewGreenback) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@HighRise I was interpreting those National Debt increase reports that Spud was posting as the monetizing you are talking about.

@6Pak That bankruptcy report was a warning. They are going to close the door on the fools in debt. When this thing goes down, the people in debt via a security agreement are going to be indentured servants of banks. I know people now who are indentured servants of the IRS. 80% of their compensation goes to the IRS and they cannot even get ahead of the interest accrual. This is feudalism. Feudalism under a market democracy. Why don't people even ask themselves what kind of a government are they living under if the Red Chinese have no ideological disagreement with it ?

@NewGreenback There will a new international greenback with gold that will circulate alongside the debt currency greenback which will be for domestic tender only. Trans national corporations will be able to accumulate wealth in these international greenbacks offshore. The ordinary American will in the meanwhile become more and more deeply indentured using the domestic greenback under martial law.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:43
The Hermit (@ Post of 13:32 - a typo) ID#372248:
Pardon me - the article's date was March 16, 1998.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:37
HighRise (Spell Ck) ID#401237:

Pretty bad when I can't spell positive column
I need new glasses!


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:37
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Gold/Silver Ratio = 46.92

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:35
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .264 ( this is the highest reading since Nov. 6th when the ratio was .271 )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:33
2BR02B? (@oblique ho!) ID#266105:

Ray, youse gonna luv this next one.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:33
HighRise (farfel) ID#401237:

I am upbeat on Gold, put me in the positve collumn.

I think she is about to rip - big time.

Just remember the Babyboomer Rotation, there are only so many ounces and mining shares; And there will be billions chasing them one of these days.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:32
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio 29.24 ( this is a new high and brings the Dow up to 601.91 in 1933 dollars )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:31
Ted (Peter Monk is my idol-----------------go ABX-----------) ID#330175:
ya doggie ( arf arf arf )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:27
HighRise (Silverbaron, Ray, & JTF) ID#401237:

Thanks, for the response.

This is the indicator that I have been watching for some time. I think that in some form or another this has been going on for at least several months as the Asians stopped buying US bonds.

If anyone else has info or sites that we can monitor this, let us know please.

This would be a BIG event in the life of Gold.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:25
clone (JTF & all) ID#269245:
Copyright © 1998 clone/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold already IS the world currency, it always has been and always will be - it just has a bad rap right now. Was it you or LGB who brought the term neo-stagfalation to this forum, where first there is deflation and then inflation? All these officials who suggest that we may be headed into a deflationary period are stating the obvious. Of course there is Deflation, in fact there has been deflation ever since gold began to dive! We should have brought Dollar prices down a long time ago; everyday we deny the fact of deflation we are making the final correction that more painful and damaging. - c

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:24
tolerant1 (fafel ALERT- Hey pal, I am not only optimistic) ID#31868:
about gold and silver but I want to go on record as saying that they are the investment to be in, save a very few equity stocks like PWN and other very specific purchases.

I say to all, you had better be in your physical positions and mining shares, because when this baby pops, whoooooooooooooooooosh!!!

fafel Alert over and out.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:22
APH (Silver) ID#25588:
Copyright © 1998 APH/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BillD - This one didn't work out, at least not so far, stopped out at the high of the day. It happens to me a lot. That's why I only use stops when I'm not going to be around to watch the market. For me this is a short term trade ( 3-5 days ) , I'm not concerned about the longer term fundamentals. Therefore here is my reasoning for the trade; 1 ) the trend is down and has been since 7.50 ( trade with the trend ) 2 ) the market appears to be forming a wedge after a 3 wave decline ( this indicate a final push down before a trend change ) 3 ) the market is up against a down trend line drawn along the recent tops ( if you're going to short that's the place ) 4 ) the seasonals and cycles still point down into next Monday 5 ) the XAU is only up slightly and the fidelity PM's are flat to down ( no leadership ) 6 ) MOST IMPORTANT low risk with high potential, I think silver can still go down to 5.75 to 5.40 that's $2500 to $4000 potential with a $250 risk ( see jman post ) I'll take a 10 to 1 risk reward ratio anytime. A close above 6.30 +/- proves me wrong. I'll look at it to night and may try again.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:08
...I did a little informal evaluation of the Kitco forum. There is still a great deal of skepticism and dismay regarding gold and silver.

Since first posting on this forum, I do not recall a time with so much sustained pessimism regarding the metals.


F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 16:00
Donald__A (About Mexican oil) ID#26793:
The budget of the Mexican government is based upon receiving 40% of its revenues from Pemex, the government owned oil company. With oil prices down it impairs its ability to repay the IMF and everyone else. This kind of news is being ignored by the market. That is going to be a future news event for all oil producing nations that are in debt and for those who lent to them. This is very basic deflationary stuff.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:58
Ray () ID#41170:
HighRise- monetizing the debt shows up as real INFLATION in about
6 months, gold goes TO DA MOON! Country goes to heck are is it already there?

Tally Ho

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:56
JTF (US Bonds Buy back) ID#57232:
HighRise: What we need to do is watch our money supply -- M2, and M3, as well as our official debt. What James Earl Davidson said makes sense -- this will 'monetize' our debt as our dollar supply in circulation will go up. The 'monetization' is much more insidious if it is hidden in our official debt, because that does not affect the money supply for many years to come -- until interest on the debt gets out of control.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:55
Silverbaron (HighRise @ debt monetization) ID#289357:

I've read ( don't remember where - perhaps Doug Casey's book ) that monetization of the debt is the real engine for future inflation.

BTW - you can keep a watch on these turkeys by using keyword searches for arcane Fed terms like 'repo' etc. at This site usually has a pretty good measure of the pulse of things in monetary policy.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:52
Donald__A (Mexico down 111 (2.31%) on oil price deflation jitters (story has earlier quote) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:44
lenaxe (@Silverbaron...PMs in general are a bit exasperating) ID#263184:
they edged up ever so slowly all day long until near the end. I thought they might be given a boost near the close, but so far no dice. Looks like very careful buying for a move up. ( I hope )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:40
JTF (The IMF, a stable world currency, and the 'New World Order') ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
SDRer, The Hermit: I like your posts about current problems with our global currencies. The concept of a world government should not be in the imposition of one dominant financial system and one world seat of power, where others are subservient to that financial power. For economic strength and stability, wealth should be distributed as evenly as possible - among the people that do the work - and by encouraging free enterprise. I think the best example of this is the Gini index -- as wealth becomes more and more concentrated in the hands of the few -- the economic system becomes unstable. Eventually the working 'people' get so poor that they overthrow their oppressive leaders in frustration -- the wealthy few 'acquistors'. Ironically, our US 'democratic' system was most democratic in the 60's, and has been losing ground ever since, despite what we are told by our ever bigger and more regulatory government. The 'capital flight' by large corporations,etc, and net US indebtedness is due in part to this, IMHO.

I agree with the consensus that SEAsia would very likely have done much better if they had not allowed such large infusions of foreign capital, and had not blindly accepted western concepts of debt investment/management.

So -- if we are to have a true 'New World Order' that we can be proud of, we need a strong, uncorruptible world currency -- backed by gold. That would go a long way to avoiding the mishap that befell SEAsia, and is now threatening to engulf the rest of the world -- fortunately so far -- in stages. In fact, one could add more stability by abolishing credit from this world currency, and have credit available only in the local currencies.

As a whole, I think one can say that SEAsians are more frugal than their American/European counterparts, and understand better than we the value of having a gold-backed medium of exchange. But -- they also need to do more to prevent counterproductive corrupt business practices, such as what was/is happening in Indonesia.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:37
HighRise (The US to Buy Bonds Back?) ID#401237:
There was a positive anouncement on the news today that the Fed or the US may start buying back the US Bonds.

The story was one of a positive nature like this is good for Bonds and everyone....etc.

Question, isn't this what we were warned about in The Great Reckoning and other books - something to the affect..Beware of the Government buting it's own bonds, this is monetizing the debt.

Any thoughts on this, would be greatly appreciated.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:20
Silverbaron (Silver mining shares) ID#289357:

Silver mining shares down today, silver up....go figure. Patience is getting a little thin here.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:12
HighRise (Another Clinton Friend ) ID#401237:

McDougal died in solitary confinement, he was in solitary for refusing a drug test CNBC

No witnesses?


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:11
Oliver (Gold buy back and Central Banks Reality Check.) ID#242249:
Copyright © 1998 Oliver/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
From Placer Dome Canada, reality check with buy back from CBs rumors.

From CNW, march,10, 1998.
VANCOUVER, March 10 /CNW/ - Contrary to recent news reports, Placer Dome Inc. is not and never has been a party to any plan or arrangement with other gold producing companies to buy bullion from central banks or other market participants to influence the gold market or gold prices.
The international gold bullion market is large, liquid and well
diversified with about 1,200 tonnes per day trading over the London Bullion Market Association, representing about 50% of annual mined production.Due to the size and liquidity of this market, individual buyers and sellers are generally unable to exert significant influence on pricing.It is estimated that about 35,000 tonnes or about 25% of above-ground stocks are held by central banks as official reserves. Central bank net sales during 1997 were estimated to be about 1% of their total holdings.The level of central bank sales have not been significant relative to their overall holdings and to the size of the bullion market. However, during 1997 increased levels of speculative selling and producer forward sales, combined with central bank net sales, could not be absorbed without depressing the price, despite an estimated increase in demand of 14%.
Regarding the effect of central bank gold lending and gold sales on the bullion market, Placer Dome reiterates that it has confidence in the long-term future of gold and that central banks will retain gold as a significant percentage of their reserves.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 15:11
2BR02B? (@more...ality for u?) ID#266105:

Here's from the latest Imprimis ( in the first place ) , a flyer
from private Hillsdale College that some would term ultra. Of George

He was born in 1732 on a small, struggling tobacco farm in
Virginia. His father died when he was eleven, and he had to work
to help the family make ends meet. As a young boy, he also had to
memorize over 100 rules of conduct devised by French Catholic monks.
Here are a few examples:

Speak not when you should hold your peace.

Always submit your judgement to others with modesty.

Be not hasty to believe flying reports to the disparagement
of any.

Let your conversation be without malice or envy...

When you speak of God or his attributes, let it be seriously...

Let your recreations be manly, not sinful.

Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of
celestial fire called conscience.

He didn't forget these rules or outgrow them. They were rules
for life, and they were not just about common courtesy but about
developing moral character and moral discipline.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:59
Donald__A (Violent protests in Chile over lifetime parliment seat for Pinochet) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:58
robnoel__A (Good post 6pak however there was another one there) ID#410198:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:56
fundaMETAList (APH: I'm too chicken (bawk bawk)) ID#338289:
APH: Thanks for the heads up. I'm thinking about it but will probably stay on the sidelines for now. Where is your wave count at right now? I think we've been in a little abc in the middle of a big ABC ( Wave II ) and we are about to start C of II. If you're shorting here that would seem to confirm my count.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:52
Myrmidon (@ TZADEAK) ID#345176:

My apologies, I hadn't read your post yet when you posted the one with the word surgery, so I misunderstood. I am glad you are OK. Sorry.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:49
Donald__A (@Tzadeak) ID#26793:
You can't be leaving Kitco for that reason. I was proud that I beat CNBC by 9 hours on the story about the Saudi refusal to go to the OPEC meeting. That should be a reason to stick around. I always read your posts. There are no greener pastures.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:45
tolerant1 (mozel - why I oughta!) ID#31868:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:44
Myrmidon (@ TZADEAK) ID#345176:

Good luck with your surgery and I wish you a speedey recovery. I always read your posts. Get well soon and be back with us. God bless you.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:39
TZADEAK* (@ surgey=surgery) ID#372344:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:32
6pak (Bankruptcy @ USofA (Worried about future down turn in the economy?)) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
March 10, 1998

US consumer bankruptcy seen soaring in a downturn

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Without bankruptcy reform the number of people seeking such relief would spiral out of control if the economy faltered and in turn deepen any recession, a federal judge told Congress on Tuesday.

Fifth U.S Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Edith Jones and a member of the national commission that reviewed bankruptcy laws last year, said personal bankruptcy was rising even though unemployment rates were falling.

She told a House Judiciary subcommittee that opponents of reform had no response to the question of what would happen to the credit-driven U.S. economy when the next downturn occurred.

The Administrative Office of U.S. Courts reported in February that the total number of bankruptcy filings in 1997 reached an all-time high of 1.4 million, up 19 percent from the previous record of 1.18 million petitions filed during 1996.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:29
TZADEAK* (@ Heard on the Street.....Oil...Gold...US$....) ID#372344:
Copyright © 1998 TZADEAK*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
King Fahad of SA has undergone surgey according to the Saudi
News agency ( US controlled? ) but gave no details, he was reported to
be under the care of American team. The same News service also
reported Crown Prince Abdullah as saying the king is in good health
One wonders as to the need for such a statement at this time....
Gold is up about $ 1.20, ABX has caught up with ASA trading about
20 1/2...shows you where the BIG money is going.....
The US$ is not acting very well here, this was The week for a move up
what's going on? PT and PD continue their upmove and the Gold
stocks are holding up well, a good move up in Gold cannot be far behind....

This will likely be one of my last posts here at Kitco I may be going off to
greener pastures........

.....besides guys like Ted and LGB 1 &2, never even bother to read my posts, and that Donald is always beating everyone to the hot story....

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:26
robnoel__A (chas,could not get youe email,as a dealer I do not promote myself in this forum) ID#410198:
I do however place adds in the free classified section go to kitcos main page

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:25
chas (Everybody) ID#342282:
Next question! What gold mines is Munk buying

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:23
6pak (FYI @ Bank of France employee strike) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
March 10, 1998
Bank of France employees strike over job cut plans

PARIS ( Reuters ) - Nearly 40 percent of Bank of France employees stayed away from work Tuesday protesting the central bank's restructuring plans, bank officials said.

They said 101 of the bank's 211 branches were unable to conduct business during the day due to the strike, although many central services were operating in a satisfactory manner.

As part of the protest, about a thousand people marched through central Paris and a delegation of bank employees was invited to confer with senior aides to Finance Minister Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

But representatives of the group later told reporters they were unhappy with the outcome of the talks and preferred genuine negotiations on the bank's future structure.

As part of the restructuring plan, the bank would close 92 of the 211 branches and cut 827 jobs. Bank unions say they oppose the dismantling of the cash distribution network and the closure of two branches in Paris.

The central bank said Feb. 10 that there would be no outright firings and the distribution of cash in France would not be adversely affected.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:19
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

Sounds like quite the situation mozel.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:19
chas (Robnoel re classified) ID#342282:
Can't get to classified Whatcha talking about. if not intruding, my email is thanx

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:17
Donald__A (Korean Silver Donations.) ID#26793:
In a response to Hedgehog I said Koreans were hardworking and would do OK. I take that back. You also have to have the guts not to be intimidated by your government.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:11
mozel (@Tolerant1 I think they used to be called clearing houses.) ID#153102:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:05
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You probably don't overestimate Munk. But, I think you do underestimate his associates Bush, Jordan, and Baker.
Are these feckless, horse racing Oppenheimers that own Anglo the same Oppenheimers that depend on governments to maintain their diamond marketing monopoly ?
There is one country that I know of offhand that has uncompromised ( by Central Bank-government connivance ) , significant sources of gold: Indonesia.
There is one pond in which, so far as I know, three warships armed with bombing planes are still sitting: The Persian Gulf
There is but one way for the poor son of the desert to preserve the value of his oil and gold and rid himself of the floating, flying infidel: set fire to the paper fuses leading to Europe and down the Old Silk Road.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:05
lenaxe (ALL...PMs are a little frustrating) ID#263184:
XAU is at 78.00, highs of the day, but still no volume. Perhaps they are waiting for the futures to start moving. Still reasonably hopeful that they will make a significant move very shortly with XAU leading the futures.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 14:04
2BR02B? (@hmmm) ID#266105:

In Secrets of the Temple; William S. Greider; 1987 he
briefly touched upon the mundane warehouse functions of the
Federal Reserve like the legions involved in simple check
clearing. A little different spin than James Grant who
posited that it takes the 24,000 employees of the Fed
to accomplish the setting of its only meaningful tool,
one simple interest rate, the Fed funds rate. I think
that's different.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:57
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

CNBC announces currency board 'guru' Hanke coming
up/extended interview asap ( commercial break )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:55
tolerant1 (chas, o'tay, now about banks and seperating them from) ID#31868:
the International System of Payments. A bank is a place that takes your money and then starts to lend out your money to stay in business. A system of payments is simply that. You pick a system and then put your money into it. They handle transactions and guard your money. Thats it, no more, no less. They do not touch you money.

Banking is what is killing the financial world. You only need a bank if you want a loan. Plain and simple.

Seperate banks and payment systems and the worlds problems would go away from a financial point of view. IMHO

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:55
Argent (@ Silverbaron, Au vs Pt) ID#255217:
Interesting. I should have been more persevering in my homework. Your CRC figures indicate Au & Pt are about par in occurance ( 0.005 ) . I have been laboring for years under the impression Pt is much rarer than Au. Don't recall the source. I was almost correct about Au vs Pd ( 0.005 vs 0.01 ) . This sounds about right. Still, I wonder about Au vs Pt ... Perhaps I'd better get a newer version of CRC. Back to the books.
Many thanks!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:53
OLD GOLD (We really like gold) ID#238295:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:51
JTF (Shafted?) ID#57232:
John Disney, Haggis: Is getting 'shafted' a gold miners term?

--------- Couldn't resist asking ------

( Apologies to Bart K -- I don't know if this a word that is to be excluded or not )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:36
robnoel__A (John D your wit surpasses your brilliance) ID#410198:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:32
The Hermit (The IMF - food for thought) ID#372248:
I think most will agree - a return to true money ( GOLD ) will stop a great deal of suffering.

The following are excerpted from Bailout Bonanza by Jane H. Ingraham in the March 16, 1988 issue of The New American magazine.

The first thing that needs to be said about the $118 billion International Monetary Fund bailout of South-east Asia is that the IMF should not be there.

The monetary turbulence we are witnessing is Asia could not have happened in former years, for the world once had a simple but perfect exchange mechanism. It was called gold.

Given the reality of the IMF in Asia, what exactly is it doing there? Why do we need a self-appointed lender of last resort? What has been accomplished with the billions already laden out? Just how does a bailout function? Who gets what? We are never told. In fact, the IMF is notorious for its secretive, closed door sessions.

If the IMF's mission has been to restore the value of the currencies, it has utterly failed, as these currencies continued to plummet with each new infusion of aid. Certainly the people of these afflicted countries have not been helped. They never are. For instance, although the IMF is taking great credit for the Mexican bailout because the Mexican government repaid $30 billion on schedule, what they have not mentioned is that the Mexican people suffered a massive decline in their standard of living with inflation of 52 percent and a drop in their nations's gross domestic product of over 30 percent. In the past three years Mexico's price index has risen 122 percent and the country is plagued with political instability. What kind of sucess is this?

We are now seeing the same tragedy in Asia. The plunging currencies have devastated wages, put imports out of reach for hard-working Asian citizens, halved the income of exporting industries, and doubled the liability to foreign banks. The governments and bankers are being rescued, but not the people.

As I said - Just some food for thought.

The Hermit

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:29
John Disney__A (Give me my shafts of gold) ID#24135:
For Robnoel ..
I saw the eight shafts from fregold in todays paper.
I have no idea who african rainbow is .. but they sound
pretty. I think harmony will maybe pick something up if
it is contiguous to ground they hold.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:29
cherokee__A (@-----don't-you-just-hate-it?) ID#344308:

pm's up across the board
grains fixing to head south in a big way....
time for some new contract lows.....
go beans---down.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:19
tolerant1 (tsclaw - try) ID#31868: - Mr. Russ Savage, if he does not know he can point you in the right direction. Tell hill Tolerant sent you.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:14
jman (Hey Hey Hey) ID#251268:
Now they are giving it away 0

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:14
tsclaw (British Soverign) ID#318118:
Does anyone have any knowledge of the 1985 gem British 5LB Soverign. Beautiful coin but I can't find a bid/ask anywhere.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:13
SDRer__A (FT editorial worth sharing...last two paragraphs...{Market blindness]) ID#288157:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

“This is the flaw in the neatly symmetrical view of globalisation that sees high-saving, low-investing, mature economies solving their demographic problems by exporting surplus capital to high-investing, low-saving developing countries. The successful Asians are, in fact, high savers; their economies has been destabilised by excessive portfolio inflows; and their readiness to pay for pensions in the west rests on a rosy western perception of mutual interest that could yet be confounded by realpolitik.

Pangloss was an early champion of globalisation, with his declaration that all was for the best in the best of all possible worlds. Yet the substance of Voltaire’s Candide, was about the ceaseless violation of human rights and property rights.

Perhaps western pensions will be financed from the toil of the Chinese masses. But for the moment all is assuredly not for the best in the world of global capital. And the political risks in globalisation are being glibly understated.” Unless the mines were on Islamic soil,
and/or under the complete control of Islamic management, it is not possible/legal for investment in these Paper Assets.
The ISD is quite clear on this point.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:13
robnoel__A (J Disney should have done this before ID#410198:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:12
General (to selby) ID#365216:
Methinks Mr. McDougal died of associatitis Clintonitis;
the more you know, the faster you go.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:11
BillD (~~~~poof~~~ til later...) ID#258427:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:11
OLD GOLD (From SA) ID#238295:
Copyright © 1998 OLD GOLD/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Gold needs a breakthrough to rally ( Business Day )

Foreign investors are nibbling depressed SA gold shares whenever the gold price dips to
the $290-$295/oz range, but the institutions remain wary. - In recent weeks French
institutions have been buying gold shares spasmodically, but UK dealers say, unless the
gold price takes off and breaks decisively through the $300/oz level, any attempted rally
will fizzle out.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:09
BillD (Selby...some are sure to say that mcdougle died from) ID#258427:
an overdose of an agent that causes heart attacks!! More to follow, I am sure....go silver..up .17 and go gold ..up $1.sumthing ...ain't it fun to say up~~~~~~

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:08
Myrmidon (on Arabs and gold) ID#345176:

I know that the Arabs appreciate hard money, it is in the culture and I admire them for this. One thing that puzzles me is why haven't they bought gold stocks, African or N. American in the last 3 months. It is obvious that if they had, this would have been reflected in the price of such stocks.

Are Arabs interested in PM stocks or only in bullion?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:04
Silverbaron (Argent @ Pd) ID#289357:

The CRC handbook gives the following amounts of the elements in Earth's crust in grams/tonne:

Ag 0.1

Au 0.005

Pd 0.01

Pt 0.005

Rh 0.001

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 13:00
robnoel__A (general:I don't want to advertise on this forum go to classified section,John Disney any comment on ) ID#410198:
Free State selling 8 shafts

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:59
John Disney__A () ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for Mozel

you said
Munk looks to me like he is fronting for Central
Bank interests.

Look I really dislike Munk, but I think you and
goose give him too much credit . He's just a half
smart lucky guy with a big ego that likes to have
his picture taken with presidents and stuff. He's
no grey emminence. His just a jerk that likes to
talk big .. I mean really ..

Then you said
The Arabs can see the central banks
plan to control gold mining and thus control the only
currency that could unseat the greenback. They
cannot allow this to happen for it would mean the
Central Banks can devalue their gold asset at will
while Venezuala devalues their oil assets.

I know .. its true .. but what is a poor
son of the desert to do.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:58
Selby (McDougle) ID#286230:
McDougle looked ill when he first made the evening TV news. What was he dying from?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:52
Argent (Value) ID#255217:
Copyright © 1998 Argent/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This may have been addressed previously. If it has, my apologies to all; for I haven't seen it.
Wouldn't it be interesting if palladium in it's current ( irrational? ) climb to the stratosphere reached the ( gasp ) price level of GOLD? This has crossed my mind several times in the past, but I just couldn't believe it would happen.
Now, with March palladium @$251/oz. and obviously on a tear, I am not so sure. I know there is a tremendous amount of speculation in Pd due to the Russian delivery uncertainty and no doubt this is the major cause, but it does make one ponder the implications of such an occurance.
My CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics ( old edition ) shows the price of Pd to be around $40/oz. ( 1972 ) . It does not give the relative rarity of Pd vs. Au, but based on price alone, my guess is that Pd is not excessively rare and perhaps about on a par with gold. Platinum, on the other hand is 8 to 10 times as rare as gold.
We all know that the natural rarity of anything is not the only criterion for its price as determined in the marketplace. Supply and demand are greater determinants than actual rarity in most situations we encounter in everyday life. If this were not so, platinum would sell for $2000 to 3000 per ounce. Maybe it SHOULD.
To return to the price of Pd vs. Au, if the price of gold rose modestly over the next few months to say, $320/oz. and palladium rose less modestly to $320, would that mean Pd was equally as valuable as gold? Should we then consider seriously greatly increased coinage of palladium coins? If Pd rose ABOVE the price of gold should we then consider the PALLADIUM standard as a replacement for the GOLD standard ( I know, I know, WHAT gold standard? ) Is all this ridiculous? Maybe. Think about it, though. Prices in the marketplace of human affairs have ALWAYS been subject to human foibles and are occasionally rather arbitrary. So when we ask about the value of a thing, take all the foregoing into consideration. It's an old saw, but something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. right then and right there.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:50
John Disney__A (Don't wanna sound snobbish but ...) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for mozel
you asked.
Why is Anglo American involved with Munk's act ?

I didn't know that they were .. Are they

then you asked
Does Anglo also have CIA Senior Advisors like

Not that I know of .. I dont think so ..
These are the Oppenheimers .. They run race
horses and watch cricket.. they wouldn't be
caught dead with Brian Mulrooney .. or Mr Munk ( ey )
er .. ah .. we're talking a touch of class here.
Not donald trump wannabes.

Then you ask ...
Are these people not plainly trying to lead
the whole gold mining industry into government
captivity ?

What can I tell ya ?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:48
BillD (Interesting that McDougle was in) ID#258427:
Solitary Confinement when he had his heart attack ..i.e. No one was around ...We have not heard the end of this story Tolerant1 would say...hmmmmm~~~~~~

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:45
cherokee__A (@----realistic-expectations---) ID#344308:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


those huge inventories of beans are headed to the market....
our farmers will be facing an onslaught of cheap beans....
where's the price going? how soon? we'll be seeing sub6$ beans
shortly.....wonder if realistic will re-post my posts alluding

don't be afraid of the lawnmower blade.

gold is the last of the pm's to taste volatility, and participate with
big moves. we recently had a $9 move....that is nothing compared to
what is coming...limits in gold are $75....silver $1.50..
the babe has yet to suckle....the first cry barely paper
dies...the pm's will it should be.
!; )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:45
A.Goose () ID#20137:
Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:37
mozel ( @chas ) ID#153102:

I think you are absolutely on target with Munk. Munk has been part of the CB/Fed game plan for quite sometime. I do not look at Munk as a friendly force but as a key player for the dark side.

Platinium seems to have quite a spring today, and gold is inching its way forward. Silver standing strong. Confused by Palladium spot down, while PA M8 June Palladium 244.00 +3.75 +1.6. Looking like a interesting day for the pm's.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:44
cherokee__A (@----realistic-expectations---) ID#344308:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


those huge inventories of beans are headed to the market....
our farmers will be facing an onslaught of cheap beans....
where's the price going? how soon? we'll be seeing sub6$ beans
shortly.....wonder if realistic will re-post my posts alluding

don't be afraid of the lawnmower blade.

gold is the last of the pm's to taste volatility, and participate with
big moves. we recently had a $9 move....that is nothing compared to
what is coming...limits in gold are $75....silver $1.50..
the babe has yet to suckle....the first cry barely paper
dies...the pm's will it should be.
!; )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:43
chevy () ID#287358:

Xau up .32. Here we go!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:43
Auric (General) ID#255151:

I have only bought at local coin shops. You
might try contacting Bart or RJ. Also, that
Platinum one ounce Maple Leaf is a beautiful

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:42
chas (Mike Stewart re your's 12:20) ID#342282:
I hardily agree. Thanx for the references.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:39
Auric (General) ID#255151:

I have only bought at local coin shops. You might try contacting Bart or RJ. Also, that Platinum one ounce Maple Leaf is a beautiful coin.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:37
mozel (@chas) ID#153102:
Munk looks to me like he is fronting for Central Bank interests. The Arabs can see the central banks plan to control gold mining and thus control the only currency that could unseat the greenback. They cannot allow this to happen for it would mean the Central Banks can devalue their gold asset at will while Venezuala devalues their oil assets.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:31
General (need help on platinum coins) ID#365216:
I need recommendations for good dealers to purchase the
Liberty Eagle $100 face value Platinum coins issued by
US Mint. Any help would be appreciated.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:29
jman (Bill D? shorting Silver) ID#251268:
H'm if I read APH's post right he is in for 4 1/2 pts
=225.00 + com.+ maybe some slipage but I don't see the
market blowing thru his stop and not getting filled,thats
one of the advantages of a tight stop if a frenzy happens
it usally is a snowball type gaining momentem until it is
realy out of control.All these coments are IMHO oh ja
you got to have about 3500 margin to make that trade though.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:24
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:
Why is Anglo American involved with Munk's act ? Does Anglo also have CIA Senior Advisors like ABX ? Are these people not plainly trying to lead the whole gold mining industry into government captivity ?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:20
Mike Stewart (Chas) ID#270253:
If by CLN you mean Claimstaker Resources on Vancouver, I know nothing about individual juniors. I use BGR Precious Metals BPT.A in Toronto and their cousin, the Dynamic Precious Metals Fund to cover juniors. I hate stock promoters, car salesman and religious zealots so I avoid them.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:19
Silverbaron (All @ Islamic Mint) ID#288295:
Thanks for your responses.....I'll repackage your them and send to Mr. Vadillo @ the Isamic Mint. Sorry, I have no more information than you do on this, but I think plans are in the formative stages. We surprised them, I think, with the degree of interest in their ideas and/or product.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:16
mozel (@Donald @Taxing Gold) ID#153102:
My opinion, supported by the Soupreem Court, is that no one must ever volunteer to pay a tax.

All of the State and federal taxing statutes are for taxing federal reserve notes. These are credits of debt money. Gold and silver coin are not credit. They are equity money. When you voluntarily put them on the same footing by doing something like putting them in an IRA, then you have agreed that they are credits and made them subject.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:15
Silverbaron (tolerant1) ID#288295:

Will contact you when I get back to the office; won't be at this email address for long.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:14
BillD (APH...I know that you are a Pro...but ) ID#258427:
It seems to me that it takes a strong set of you know whats to short silver at these prices. There may be secret hoards somewhere, but demand has been outstripping supply for years, and 20% has been taken out of circulation. Seems like shorting silver is like a D-Double-Dare!! What made you think it wise?

AND Thank you very much for posting your thoughts and trades ( regardless of which way it goes!! er...go Silver ( up ) ...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:11
chas (RE earlier posts on Peter Munk) ID#342282:
I don't know Munk, but to me it looks like he took advantage of a method that would put him in position to buy a lot of GM's @ 10c on the dollar. Apparently he has some deep pockets willing to go along!? What do y'all think? TIA

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:04
chas (Themissinglink re your 11:45) ID#342282:
I pray that they lose all data base on tax filings, I mean ALL. thanx

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:02
Neophyte (Korea to start a silver campaign) ID#390249:
Now that supplies of public gold have dwindled, Korea is planning a silver campaign.

I still suspect that the Korean gold went to pay off a gold loan.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 12:00
mozel (@Silverbaron @DEJ) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@Silverbaron The MoneyChanger in Memphis is the best source of information for the dinar people. Sanders fought the federal and state revenue people over taxing the EXCHANGE of one form of legal tender for another form.

@DEJ Thank you for sharing what capital means to you from your private dictionary.

Your private definition seems unconnected to the idea of a thing valued for its faithful utility or service OVER TIME. Because of their incorruptibility by the passage of time, gold and silver coin are capital. Land is also capital.
Money is the most liquid form of capital. There are two types: equity money and debt money. Gold and silver coin or certificates of deposit redeemable on demand for them are equity money. Federal Reserve Notes and all paper like it are debt money.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:59
lenaxe (ALL....The PMs are acting well again) ID#319181:
Note that they are trading only slightly below yesterday's close. Some of the leaders ( CDE & ABX ) are even up a bit. If we get some volume this afternoon, we may yet get the best rally in these stocks so far this year.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:57
Myrmidon (Some info on Hecla Mng.) ID#345176:

The company has experienced losses from operations for each of the last seven years ( Annual Report - SEC form 10-K ) .

... and in view of the above I got rid of this dog and I am looking for a better silver stock. Your suggestions will be appreciated. By the way, I own SSC and PRU a lot.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:55
chas (Silverbaron re coins) ID#342282:
Number one question, is the minting to be done here or over there? Number two, Taxes are tricky, but answer can be found, depending on location of minting. As far as I know your comments are correct. 2 more-- Merchandising and S&H. do you have any idea about how this would be handled, depending on locus of production. Cheers, chaslie

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:55
jman (Cherokee @ check it out) ID#251268:
Pro farmer online todays news they are swimming in soybeans
in S.America,one ? Why get K575 p's for 1/4 pt when you can
get 625's for 1 1/4 do you get discount on commision on low
priced options?I got the quotes from cbot might be screwed up
but if you got to spend the money on commision it seems like
you would want to spend a little more and get closer to the
money,although at 12.50 you could get a boat load of them.
go GOLD soon

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:50
Donald__A (@Silverbaron) ID#26793:
I think the tax answer changes state by state. There is no federal tax. There is a state sales tax in every state except New Hampshire and Delaware. State taxes need not be collected by the seller if the sale is across a state line but the purchaser has an obligation to volunteer the tax to his local state in most ( all? ) states. Some states have a tax exemption for bullion coins such as eagles. Dinars may not qualify.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:49
chas (Mike Stewart re 10:50 T/A) ID#342282:
Do you have any ideas re CLN or Gen. TIA

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:47
SDRer__A (Donald--The Hook) ID#28594:
That is most certainly the impression they wish to give the Round-Eyes--John Disney called it getting mileage...
I'm still of a mind that if they wish to cause havoc, they
will do it thru HK $...I think they are very much in the
image building mode at this point, i.e. saying to their
neighbors, We keep our word, unlike the unreliable, lying West.
We'll soon see, I reckon {:- )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:45
themissinglink (Y2K) ID#373403:
What if the treasury were to lose all their data regarding the bonds and notes. They might make people prove they hold the paper. I bet some would not come forward for various reasons.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:43
chas (Tolerant1) ID#342282:
Fine and thanx

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:42
SDRer__A (DEJ--gold is not capital...that western perception may have to change...) ID#28594:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Repost--The giant of so called Islamist capital, Kombassan Holding, was taken to Court due to claims of SPK ( Stock Exchange Commission ) for capital increase without the consent of the Commission. The decision was taken after a courier was caught carrying TL 14,9 trillion, collected from Turks in Germany without any legal document. Commercial Court of Ankara, decided that all bank accounts of Kombassan be blocked as a precaution.

The TL 14,9 trillion has been blocked in a bank and court of bailiff, has
started legal action in Konya, where headquarters of Kombassan are
located. The SPK decision and legal action has caused anxiety among
other Islamist capital establishments who have expressed their support for Kombassan Holding. [Turkish paper]

COMMENT: Turkey is called a secular republic. If the Islamic capitalists have come this far since 1992 in Turkey, what must their holdings be in Iran? In Saudi Arabia, etc. We may be talking about some serious money.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:41
chas (Jin re yours 7:45) ID#342282:
Very interesting. It reminds me of the story of Pat and Mike going to the races. They had a keg of beer and 1 shilling between them. It was hot, and Pat offers the shilling to mike for a drink. Next, Mike gives the shilling back to Pat for a drink. It went on this way till they got to the races and the keg was empty. Still only 1 shilling between them. It illustrates the turnover theory of money. No sales to the crowd. Enjoy

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:39
Donald__A (@SDRer) ID#26793:
I think that there may be a hook in the we won't devalue promise of China. Thew will not devalue IF they are approved by the WTO. Just a hunch.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:37
tolerant1 (SilverBaron - chas) ID#31868:
@SilverBaron- email me at I need to converse with you about the Islamic Mint contact and some other items.

@Chas- I am under siege by 7 barbarians ( nieces and nephews 2-14 ) and will respond as soon as I can.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:34
SDRer__A (Good morning All--) ID#28594:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
China's top 10 economic news in '97

This Week's News [from our China sight]

1.Sino-Austrian ties to be even better ( Mar 10,1998 )
2.Talks on China's WTO entry advance; Time-table to be determined ( Mar 10,1998 )
3.Bank funding two ventures in Cameroon ( Mar 10,1998 )
4.Growth of industrial stockpiles down ( Mar 9,1998 )
5.Lower prices mean gold consumption to increase ( Mar 9,1998 )
6.High-tech enterprises favoured by Beijing ( Mar 9,1998 )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:30
DEJ (Gold is not capital. It is money.) ID#269191:
Capital is the difference between a society's output of goods and
services and its desire for present consumption. This unconsumed
output then serves as a buffer so that the society can engage
in production processes that are higher yeilding yet take more time
to reach fruition. Gold is money and as money can represent the money
equivalent of a stock of capital. The confusion of money with capital
has led to all sorts of errors. The most eggregious of which is the
notion that the Fed can create capital by expanding the supply of money.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:29
Silverbaron (chas, mozel @ manufacture of coinage in U.S.) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

A couple questions I'm relaying from our friend at the Islamic Mint ( I have not edited these, received in an email yesterday ) :

I want to mint dinars and dirhams in the US. Will the sale of those coins

be taxed? If so, is there a legal or administrative solution to avoid it?

Alternatively we are having talks with some Muslim governments to make

the Dinar a national legal tender, thus acquiring the same status that

the Krugerrand has in the US ( no taxes -I believe ) .

Your comments, please ( if any ) on advice for manufacturing/selling these in the United States. The only advice I was able to offer was that it is legal to manufacture coins, so long as they are not copies of present or past legal tender U.S. coins ( unless so identified on the coin ) .

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:27
A.Goose () ID#20137:
Is the palladium Kitco's Pallidium spot price correct? Future price Updated as of: Mar 10, 1998 @ 11:22 am ET, PAM8 June Palladium 242.50 +2.25 . Spot shows 239.75 down -2.25.

Which is correct?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:19
chas (Tolerant1 re sep of payments) ID#342282:
T1 I think minting products like Sunshine and Harmony in SA is a way to go. The regs on banking can be swung in favor of the existing bank industry. What do you think? Be interested on your take. Be nice if GM's could do banking, but? For minting, GM's have to really get up on merchandising. Thanx

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:10
Ridgerunner (APH silver short sale...) ID#356379:

Gosh, I don't want to wish you any bad luck....

But, Go ( UP ) Silver!

Back to the still...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:06
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold and silver coin are capital. A Bank is a place where capital is deposited for safekeeping. A gold mine is the first stage of a factory to produce capital. The BIS is capitalized. I daresay none of the country central banks are capitalized.

What is a Central Bank ? In the US and, I suspect, in all those countries infected by English lawyers as agents for the Crown, the Central Bank is the fiscal agent for the government. Why did the government need a fiscal agent ? Because it was bankrupt. The US federal government was bankrupt from the time of Lincoln. The federal reserve system and income tax were installed in 1913 by people who knew the government was bankrupt and who planned foreclosure. The gold loans made to Congress in the 1920's were nails in a coffin already containing the corpse. When 1933 arrived, it was the New York Federal Reserve that proposed the bank holiday and the legislation on gold and bank licensing. I would not be surprised to learn that the history of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa essentially paralleled the US story of central bank establishment.

Neither the politicians in the federal government in the US nor the owners of the Central Bank to whom it is indebted have any interest in ever seeing this government emerge from bankruptcy. Were this to happen, the government would again be bound by the Constitution. These people want unbridled power. The emergence of gold as a currency in oil or other trade will light a match to this paper palace. That is why I say gold will either go out of sight up or down in value.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 11:06
APH (Silver) ID#25588:
Just shorted May Silver at 627.5 stop 632.00, we'll see what happens.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:59
DJ (I've been framed!) ID#215208:
paladum = palladium. That's what I get when trying to type while the frames are updating!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:57
DJ (My oops!) ID#215208:
jman - Finger slip. London afternoon for paladum was 247.50. Still a nice number.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:54
Donald__A (New bankruptcy is Japan's second largest this year.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:51
Silverbaron (Silver - a nice rally at last!) ID#289357:

Looks like PEI is finally losing the silver wars. Die, you woims!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:50
Mike Stewart (Technical Update) ID#270253:
Copyright © 1998 Mike Stewart/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Here is the news on my indicators for this week. The Toronto Mining Issues summation index is rising again and is just under 700. A move to +2000 would confirm a new bullish phase. It is not showing much conviction to the upside though.

My Toronto Golds trend line from recent lows ( the week of Jan 16th ) is now at 6268 for this week. It rises by 2% per week compounded weekly. The correction two weeks ago came right to the line and turned. This is how things are supposed to work and looks good.

The new lows in Toronto have decreased to the 5 per day area. These should dry up now if a move is coming.

Other Comments:

Don't expect the dogs/juniors to come to life in the early moves of a gold bull market. For Bema, Royal Oak, Echo Bay or even Gold Fields to pop, the fear levels must be reduced. ABX, DRFNY, NEM or PDG will go first then slow down as the others catch up. It will be in the final phase of the Bull that the dogs/juniors perform best.

So far so good, but not any conviction...yet.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:49
BillD (That Palladium number of 297 is way off from) ID#258427:
Bart's numbers above...


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:49
Donald__A (Franco-Nevada news) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:46
jman (297) ID#251268:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:46
jman (Yo D.J. ?) ID#251268:
207 wo dude if that's right amazing although I've heard
it is an extremly thin market?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:44
RayZer (rally) ID#408147:
Looks like a rally attempt is now in place. With luck, I
can finally recover all the losses in gold I incurred during
the big dunk in gold the end of last year. So far, this
year has been very, very good to me ( timing ) . I have placed
a smallish wager that ANOTHER has some degree of credibility,
so my physical holdings now hold some weight ( albeit, not
more than a small gerbil ) ...


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:42
jman (Morning all,) ID#251268:
about 5.35 am in Hawaii,I've been taking advantage of this
do nothing market by getting extra sleep,there's very little
reason to get up at 3 to see a flat--------- but I'm thinking
I better stay on my toes the gold market's gotta move soon,
maybe after options exp. friday.Back up the truck for that
sugar could be sweet.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:38
DJ (Palladium ceiling penetrated) ID#215208:
With a London afternoon fix of 297.50, palladium has officially broken the palladiun ceiling, on the 6th attempt. Though it has pulled back a little from this level, I think this is a bullish indicator for the other PM's. We should know by the end of the week.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:36
BillD (If people do not want to post ...) ID#258427:
there is nothing you can do to keep them away ( apoligies to Yogi Berra ...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:11
aurator (somnambulist, me) ID#255284:
Donald 09:47
Well they got that wrong.
Obviously the illuminati were behind it.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 10:04
Realistic (Gold and Silver news) ID#410194:
Quiet night again around the world in the Gold market and a little technical rebound in Silver!

The Gold buying plan announced by number of key mining interests is having little impact on spot Gold prices. By buying from Central banks, this newly put together consortium is hoping to reduce the negative psychological impact of future Central bank sales. There are some expectations that the Gold market should find this comforting but does it really change the fact that abundant supplies are still hanging over the market and waiting to be un-hoarded?

As for Silver, there are lots of expectations in Japan to see it drop below the $6 level soon but I think that the Comex inventories are what is needed to watch extremely closely!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:47
Donald__A (China says all the Asian troubles are part of an elaborate Taiwanese plot.) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:44
Leland (From Fiend's SuperBear Market Commentary Today~~~) ID#316193:
I would liken the situation to Russian Roulette. The Bulls
keep pulling the trigger and nothing happens so it is leading
many to believe that the gun is not loaded or is continuously
misfiring. The Bears on the other hand can see the bullet in
the chamber and wince each time the trigger is pulled.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:40
BillD (DOW up 50 points...can you believe it!!) ID#258427:
These markets defy silver up nicely +11 that's logic....~~~~~

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:39
Donald__A (World Bank pessimistic about Indonesia outcome) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:36
Donald__A (Illness of Saudi King sparks discussion about the future of oil prices and policy) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:30
Donald__A (China getting tough on graft and corruption) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:16
Donald__A (@Hedgehog) ID#26793:
Korea is not terminal, no way. They are hard working people. They would have been better off not letting the bankers run things. Sometimes its better to go bankrupt and start from scratch. Debtors and creditors both have lessons to learn; and not just in Korea.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:13
Bully Beef (Holy Guacamole..See that spike!) ID#259282:
Jeepers creepers,Fiddlly dee! Probably just keeping up with the trading sense in getting excited...I'm waiting for the sucker call!Exponential growth!!! Maybe.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:13
A.Goose () ID#256254:
Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Mar 10, 1998 @ 9:07 am ET

Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.

GC J8 Apr. Gold 2953 +3 +0.1 2957 2948 19.3K
SI K8 May Silver 6190 +97 +1.6 6220 6050 18.6K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 8060 +55 +0.7 8080 7990 6.40K
PL J8 April Platinum 3885 +58 +1.5 3895 3845 644
PA M8 June Palladium 24425 +400 +1.7 24550 24025 418

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:10
Donald__A (@JIN) ID#26793:
Glad to help with the news. Your comments are the real world. I pay attention to everything you say because you have the real news about what is happening there.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:09
A.Goose () ID#256254:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:58
BillD ( Gracious...are Bart's quotes bouncing ) ID#258427:

Unfortunately, it looks like a Bart problem. CNBC just flashed the pm quotes and they had gold up 20 cents.

303.80 sure woke me up though. One of these mornings, soon I hope.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 09:03
11 cents to 6.20...hummmmm ( as eb sould say ) or is it tolerant?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:59
Donald__A (@Sharefin) ID#26793:
Your message posted Sunday at 8AM, OZ time, arrived here this AM. We have some problem translating OZ to CT I guess.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:58
DJ (Rising ...) ID#215208:
PA98M 243.00

PL98J 388.00

GC98J 295.60

SI98K 6.220

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:58
BillD (Gracious...are Bart's quotes bouncing) ID#258427:
around +$10 and silver up .09.. Now gold only up .40...
Anyone got correct spot quotes...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:57
TYoung (What?) ID#317193:
Spot price?300+ Tom

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:51
Ted (@ Cape Breton) ID#330175:
April gold up .50 @ 295.5-----S+P futures up 4.80

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:50
sharefin ('Democracy caught in the trap' ) ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved part3.htm
CHAPTER ONE - THE 20:80 SOCIETY - continued

Once before, of course, the economic dissolution of politics led to global catastrophe. In 1930, a year after the great stock-market crash, the pro-capital London weekly The Economist commented:

The supreme difficulty of our generation is that our achievements on the economic plane of life have outstripped our progress on the political plane to such an extent that our economics and politics are perpetually falling out of gear with one another. On the economic plane, the world has been organized into a single all-embracing unit of activity. On the political plane, it has remained partitioned.
The tension between these two antithetical tendencies has been producing a series of jolts and jars and smashes in the social life of humanity

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:50
DJ (PM's up) ID#215208:
PA up 1.75 at 242.50, was up to 245 on open

PL up 4.80 at 387.50

GC up .40 at 295.40

SI up .102 at 6.200

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:44
BillD (Silverbaron) ID#258427:
affirmative...mail go gold...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:42
jcw (Indonesia, Freeport-McMoran and ?currency board) ID#253389:
If Indonesia does indeed end up going it alone and rejecting the IMF plan, all are convinced they will go to a currency board. If I were a Freeport shareholder ( used to be ) , I'd be very concerned about the prospect of nationalization to fund reserves for the currency board. Indonesia will be a pariah, but gold still talks and there will be plenty of Southeast Asian countries willing to trade with them if the currency board relies not just on dollar reserves - but gold. Any thoughts?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:41
Silverbaron (BillD) ID#289357:

Didyaget those sources I sent to you for golden eagles?

Yo - Go Silver!!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:31
BillD (DBC has May Silver up 1.5 cents to) ID#258427:

6.10...go silver...morning all...

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:25

Augur thinks that 79 may cap this recent rise in XAU before a pullback to 68-70 area. Buyer Beware!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:23
sharefin (A different viewpoint. - 20/80 society) ID#284255:

‘The Global Trap - The Assault on Democracy and Prosperity’
by Dr. Hans-Peter Martin

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:19

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 08:06
Hedgehog (Donald reKorea) ID#39845:
That 180 ton gold sale was just a drop in the ocean.
Asia has taken a savage body punch. They will blow
alot of air until they asphyxiate under the crush.
Will this be terminal though?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:47
JOE Smith (Warren Buffet---Did anyone settle or deliver last friday?) ID#24869:
WB was due somethink like 50miil oz of silver,I thought it may have caused some reaction. Anybody know?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:45
JIN (Thanks Donald A !I wonder how many news you get through each day!ha....) ID#206358:
Donald A,

Thanks for the posts !I save up more time to run around the net!Actually,both Thailand,Malaysia,singapore and Indonesia are in same bucket of mud pool!They are liked brother,liked son!Though we speak in malaysia,indonesia,english,thai,The business just run around among them!Just likes the scene in TITANIC:'YOU JUMP,I JUMP!turn to YOU DIE,I DIE!...
Off for my dinner,nite bazaar is good!!Cheap,delicious and economy!
Barbecue coconut saurce chicken ,yum yum!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:37
Hedgehog () ID#39845:
This link has a brilliant quote by Sheu Yaun-dong. Remember Taiwan was tauted back in September as possibly a seller of gold reserves. Sheu Yuan-dong said outright it was not gonna happen. Taiwan has huge gold supplies and 40% of their companies have made commercial links with mainland China. With the currency crisis companies have found it easy
to invest in Asia thanks to Shue Yuan-dong.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:25
Bully Beef (JTL...your post on derivatives ...about time for losses to be revealed.) ID#259282:
I get that. The light bulb went on.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:24
Donald__A (So. Korea owes $151 billion, $64 billion due short term) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:13
Pete T__A (Midwesterner & Preacher... Allegheny Mines) ID#170184:
Thanks for your thoughts. The new discovery at the Vanguard Property is what caught my brokers attention. The fact that it is larger than first thought is what caught his eye. I also understand they have a rather large area with numerous plays to explore.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:12
Donald__A (Russia opposed to 6 power plan to freeze Serbian assets over Kosovo ) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:07
Donald__A (Thailand says Malaysia is a bigger problem than Indonesia) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 07:00
Donald__A (IMF will blink first in Indonesian standoff) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 06:55
Donald__A (Chaos looms over Indonesia refusal to accept IMF loan terms) ID#26793:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 06:27
Goldbug23 (John B) ID#432148:
Copyright © 1998 Goldbug23/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Barrons article on the big Au companies buying gold from the CBs is hard to believe. How will they ever get by the anit trust laws, as asked in the article. Sounds like a desperate PR job to me, and as for Munk being behind it, I certainly did not get that out of the article. My personal view is he has done a great job with ABX, so far, and the stock performance compared to most other companies would bear that out. And so far his forward selling has paid off, and he claims it would not seriously hamper taking advantage of any big upturn in the gold price. How he would accomplish that I admit I do not fully understand.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 06:14
2BR02B? (@2dogs under a rug) ID#266105:


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 06:09
HighRise (@ BOTTOM?) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Gold has bottomed and is breaking out in currencies other than the dollar.
Multi-currency Chart

Gold lagging behind Silver.

PMs at critical point vs. moving average.

320 is a significant break out point. ( Another? )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 05:59
Goldbug23 (Leland) ID#432148:
What do you think of this?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 05:26
Leland (Asian Mayhem Beginning to Make Headlines...) ID#316193:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 05:24
TYoung (Lurker 777) ID#317193:
Southern Coins-I have, no problems. Tom

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 04:54
Nick@C (Antipodean up-update.) ID#393224:

April gold UP another 10 cents. Yeeeeeehaaaaaaa. 296 here we come!!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 04:30
John Disney__A (Crackpot - MOI) ID#24135:
For Farfel
You really know how to hurt a mouse.

Your comments on the lack of class and intellect in the NA
mining industry resonate.

I remember the Forbes article bungle in the jungle-- the
bre-x story. What impressed me the most were the faces on the
bre-x top management. These guys LOOKED incapable of running
a small local hardware shop.
Now watch some lurking dude jump up and tell me how smart
they were. I'll say this. They were smart enough to steal.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:57
Goldenbod (crystallex) ID#249259:

interesting case, looks very strong for Crystallex ( KRY )

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:57
aurator (©Moi) ID#250121:
Second. Not that it's a voting matter-- Deus ex Machina, International Copyright and all that. Just that anyone who wants to claim copyright ( good luck ) should claim it by action rather that inaction. Click that button ===

Crœsus! Pretentious? Mois?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:47
Jack (BART) ID#252127:

Can we have the copyright button automatically default to NO ONE?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:45
aurator (Looking for creepy-crawlies under rocks and warmth from cold hearts.) ID#250121:
Crusty/ 6 Pack
Who owns the Reserve Bank of Noo Ziland?
Well gee, fellas, good question. Allow me to find out.
Pardon me I have to get stoned to turn over some lefties. Err something like that.

LGB now you said some gold old LGB iconoclastic things yesterday
I was starting to worry a tad that you'd lost--balance. Glad to see you ain't
I just wish you'd stop dissing sheep. I mean what's a sheep ever done to you beside fill your belly when you're hungry and keep you warm morning, noon and night?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:37
Nick@C (Antipodean update.) ID#393224:

April gold 295.40 +4
May silver 6100 +7
May pork bellies 41425 -600 ( obviously a misprint ) .

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:21
Jack (Those who like gold stocks and willing to do some due diligence) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Viceroy Resource ( voy-Toronto ) was very successful for a good number of years after a successful start-up in the early 90's.

More recently, higher stripping ratios coupled with lower grades hit her bottom line and she took a non-cash writedown on its 75% owned Castle Mountain Mine in California.

With a solid hedging policy and its new low cost Brewery Creek Mine in the Yukon, Viceroy looks to be turning.

I will let its fourth quarter 1997 results, be my guide on possible purchases and hopefully they take the advantage of closing their hedge, if profitable

Viceroy sells for $2.57 Can., about $1.80 US. If interested, happy hunting at

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:20
jims (Direction) ID#253418:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Price quotes from other sources show gold up about 35 cents and silver off a cent and one half. Oil is popping up a few cents, but the big metal bull doesn't seem to have started with Comex asleep. In fact it seems to be awaiting their opening. Have to think the comex stocks increase will be a bearish fundlemental working against the bulls, whereas XAU's good performance may attract some buyers. Like the action in CDE - new high close for the recover rally. Stock is higher than it was when Buffett announced. Volumn, unfortunately has been light on the rally.

Admittedly following all of this too closely, but I sense we may be at a critical juncture... The mood on this site confirms.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:14
POLARBEAR (Can I pay off my credit cards by spending too? :)) ID#183109:
Copyright © 1998 POLARBEAR/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

March 9, 1998
Japan plans huge spending
Kae Inoue
Tokyo -- Condemning international pressure on Japan to spend more to revive its economy, ruling party official Taku Yamasaki said the government plans new measures that may top ´10 trillion.

Robert Rubin, the US Treasury Secretary, last week called on Japan to boost its economy, saying steps so far had been insufficient. Those steps included a one-off ´2 trillion income tax cut and a ´30 trillion package to shore up banks and protect depositors.

The Liberal Democratic Party ( LDP ) has proposed four economic packages since October to spark an economy the government forecasts will grow only 0,1 percent in the year to March 31 and by 1,9 percent the following year.

This one will be big, said Yamasaki, chairman of the LDP's policy affairs research council.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:13
Nick@C (----------------Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter----------------) ID#393224:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It is time to answer some of our fan mail. Our humble apologies for not answering the thousands of e-mails. Here is a representative sample.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:20
Avalon ( @Nick @ C; All the best on your new publishing venture; I will however become ) ID#254269:
quite concerned when you start to recommend bottom of the harbour futures.

G'day Frankie. We are pleased to have members of the film industry and especially famous movie stars like yourself reading our newsletter. We are working on a new 'bottom of the harbour tax scheme' but have not yet figured out how to avoid government submarines.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:49
Haggis__A ( Nick@c ) ID#398105:

Nick@C ( ---------Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter-------------- )

------------------Nickaurator Enterprises 1998---------------------
Subscriptions: $10 001 per annum

Man, Can ya no wait until the gold price goes up?

G'day Haggis.
As you know, times are tough. We are trying our best to keep costs down, but it isn't easy. If you had bought Pork Bellies instead of all those Western Australian silver/vanadium ( ECM,LEG & PMA ) mining companies, you would have recouped a 2 year subscription in one week.If Frank Veneroso reduces his subscription rates ( $10 000/annum ) , we will of course reconsider.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:38
Prometheus ( @great prognosticator ) ID#210235:
Good morning, Nick. Been meditating all day on your predictions this morning. Deep thoughts, indeed.

G'day Prometheus.
Good on yer, mate. We will be doing a future issue on Zen and the Art of Meditative Gold Share Selection. For your excellent suggestion - we grant you a free one year subscription ( not redeemable for cash ) .

That's all for now. Keep those fan letters coming. Next humungous issue will be coming from New Zealand ( electricity permitting ) .

Carpe Aurum.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 03:09
2BR02B? () ID#266105:
Copyright © 1998 2BR02B?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Picked up a couple books from the lady's auxiliary tables
at the mall the other day, 3/$1 donations. How to Invest in Gold
Coins by a Donald Hoppe ( 1970 ) maybe 223 knows and old geology
book Carey Croneis and William C. Crumbein, Dept. of Geology;
Univ of Chicago ( 1936 ) that maybe Haggis knows. The gold coin
book, my first has some interesting coin faces from different
dynasties, empires, haven't looked at it much. Nor the geology
book yet but has interesting little chapter openings.

--Dedicated with affection to
those who tried to teach us
and to those who teach us
without trying.

Chapter called Gargantuan Calendar:

Some drill and bore
The solid earth, and from the strata there
Extract a register, by which we learn
That he who made it, and revealed its date
To Moses, was mistaken in its age.


Always did like earth science, and saw, in taking
a class a few years back, after twenty years, that the
discipline and findings have also, like every damn thing,
been altered and accelerated by microtech. Far more is
known in scant few years.

But anyways, in being drawn to the older books a german book in german ( 1922 ) about
fifteen people in fifteen chapters, never heard of them
or what the heck the book was about. Then picked
apparently a Finnish book in finnish, about war
gleaned from the black and white center glossies,
WWII it looked from clothing. There was a face of
an older gentleman in the background of one photo,
another younger gent to the fore. No one should
ever see that sort of obscene pornography looking
back from a page.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:26
Beamer (Nick@C) ID#26144:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:16
Nick@C (Beamer) ID#393224:
Try this for up-to-date futures, including pm's.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:13
Auric (BIG THOUGHTS) ID#255151:

Firstly--The unround $310 coin is fine! It is one ounce of Gold. The point is, why pay a premium to have $310 downside protection until January 01, 2000 when everything will go to Heck and a Handbasket anyway. Just buy the round Maple Leaf. Second-- I still say the EMU is a currency that will not fly. Third-- Big Bang in Japan coming April Fool's Day. Fourth-- John Disney, I am still trying to find the source for The sky is spreading like a stain. Go Gold!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:10
A.Goose () ID#20136:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:32
Sometimes Bart's quotes get stuck. I can/t figure why it happens quite so often, but ....

Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Mar 10, 1998 @ 2:02 am ET

Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.

GC J8 Apr. Gold 2953 +3 +0.1 2953 2948 19.3K
SI K8 May Silver 6080 -13 -0.2 6100 6050 18.6K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 8010 +5 +0.1 8030 8010 4.29K
PL J8 April Platinum 3827 +34 +0.9 3830 3795 1.46K
PA M8 June Palladium 24025 +525 +2.2 24050 23600 197

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:10
Mooney* (@RJ) ID#348169:
One last thing before shut-down, RJ's last post ( 1:35 ) certainly needs repeating! rj,rj, Rj. RJ. RJ,RJ,RJ, - RRRJJJJJAAAYYYY! Goodnight All!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:04
A.Goose () ID#20136:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:32
jims ( To Goose re stocks ) ID#252391:

Wasn't me. Maybe silverbaron, arden, or realistic.

But I will try. both eligible and registered park their gold at comex. registered is spoken for while eligible is eligible for delivery.

So the key number is what is eligible for delivery. Some days registered is freed up and moved to eligible. other days eligible drops and is move to registered. Of course, some days the total availible goes up ( stocks flow into comex ) and other days it goes down ( stocks flow out of comex ) , but the number to watch is what is eligible for delivery. For sometimes the total goes up while the amount eligible for delivery goes down ( they play games with it ) .

Any word from Tlyer Rose and/or Questor


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:04
Winston__A (Sovereigns) ID#244360:
As the subject of Sovereigns has been chased about a bit, would somebody recommend a low premium source for the little things?
I may not respond as the time is quite late, but will check back in the morning. Thank's in advance.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:01
2BR02B? (@idolatry, schmolatry, tryimmoalotry) ID#266105:
Copyright © 1998 2BR02B?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Say hello to Valerie
Say hello to Vivian
Give them all my salary
On the waters of oblivion.

-- B. Dylan/Too Much of Nothing

It is an interesting oevre to be long familiar with.
It is of a difficulty.

In watching Bravo the other night, successful
songster Sondheim postulated, and evidenced
by accompanying performance, the difficulty
of musical vignettes as contrasted with, say,
the 'wall-to-wall' sound of opera.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 02:00
Repair man (ANOTHER'S post on Monday 7:55) ID#356184:
Copyright © 1998 Repair man/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is my first post, so I have to get the hang of it. I have been following this forum for about 2 mo. now and I am amazed at how the attitudes, feelings, and tempers of most, go up and down with the price of gold. Most of you must have a lot invested. Right now, gold is dissapointing, and some of the green grass must have dried up a bit here, so much so that all it takes is one spark and, Whoosh. Mr ANOTHER did not say that gold was going to $320 to $360. He only said that someone was going to buy a large amount of it in order to send a message to those who control its price. The message is, We want gold to be in this range. This message will be sent in the mentioned time frame.

Thank you.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:57
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...well fed and satisfied.

Mousester, you still crack me up...I love your inventive, crazy ideas.

The gold industry needs more crackpots like you...spinning ideas as wild as bears in heat.

They need ideas in a bad way...because management's been going down its merry rut for decades...and the stupid shareholders should have tossed these overpaid, fatcats out on their asses years ago!

Most of these miserable gold companies haven't paid a farting nickel of a dividend in years. It's a wonder any of these miserable companies trade above a dime a share.

Of course, you've got old Barrick...they pay a dividend...but for how much longer before the retardo hedge tactic they performed in '96 buries the entire dismal industry? ( Look up the term, Pyhrric Victory if you don't quite follow me ) .

I still say if the golden boys are gonna do illegal price-fixing, setting up their own gold banks, etc....they might as well go all the way.


Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:55
John Disney__A (Life wasnt meant to be EASY) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

For Steve ..
Obviously .. The crooks that run the money
supply wouldnt like it.. and would try to
stop it. The Mines would have to threaten to
operate from a haven country .. but
then the host country would lose the tax
on their profits..
Point is that the CB have changed the game
and have tried to remove the reserve value of
gold and replace it largely with smoke.
So why dont the Mines change the game too
You dont have to actually DO something to
make changes .. Just make the implication.
.. Pawn to king four.. I think this is a
much better opener than the mines buy the
gold .. to do exactly what with it
.. TALK about your own bank .. if the CB
dont WANT the gold .. take it off their
hands BUT to start another BANK.
.. do you get my drift Canada Australia
RSA and Russia would run the world. Europe
would return to the Dark ages. The US could
be given back to the Indians and the Japanese
would be Samurai again. I could adjust to that.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:48
Nick@C (Auranumismatica) ID#393224:
Just tried to shove my $60 copy of ( World Gold Coins by Krause,Mishler and Bruce--Kraus Publications-700 East State St., Iola, Wisconsin,54990-0001 ) down my modems throat, but it wouldn't fit. Cheers, Carapusher.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:44
aurator (Anticopyright ____ NOW NOW NOW) ID#250121:
I couldn't do this to keep it. We give it away. That is a large part of its value.

Kitco is some kooky place

gottago, Beautiful Jewel demands it.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:41
Beamer (Steve in TO) ID#26144:
Sorry - a correction ... the problem was not with permitting but
with the mine flooding ( I know the two aren't very similar but time
fogs the mind... ) The problem was resolved last year, and the heap
leach pad completed last year, but its taken them this long to
get everything running smoothly.

By the way, does anyone know what the metals are doing tonight -
the last Kitco update is 14:41PM

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:41
aurator () ID#250121:
These mint marks. Is the art so arcane that the only published edition ( 1917 ) exists on your book shelf? Or are they available on the net? Can you e-mail a quick reference? Cos. like 223, whose story from the weekend is one of my treasures, I shall tumble through my sovs with a renewed interest..
Always something new to learn, as a goldbug.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:38
Repair () ID#356184:

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:35
RJ (..... All rights reserved (in some parts of the world) .....) ID#411149:
Copyright © 1998 RJ All rights reserved

What's with this whole copyright thingie beneath our names? Why would anyone think that anything written here is even worth a copyright, let alone feeling the need to have one? I recall some conversation about this a couple weeks ago, but I didn't think anybody was serious. We're a bunch of schmoes talking about gold and conspiracies, big deal.

If you post it, folks, it belongs to the world. This stuff is going out through the ether to the cosmos. If you put it here, it ain't yours anymore. Just ask the Chinese about copyright laws as you watch any one of thousands of pirated videos, listen to stolen music, or use pirated software, excreta….

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:35
Beamer (Steve in TO re Wheaton River Minerals) ID#26144:

I have been following this company for the last few years - they have just recently broken a string of bad luck with the Golden Bear Mine
( permitting, etc ) and in addition have recently made a $9.7
Million profit by repurchasing forward sales.... The have a very good
webpage at - check it out.
Good Luck

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:32
jims (To Goose re stocks) ID#252391:
Thanks for the report on stocks. Was it you that explained the distiction between eligble and registered stocks. Could you do it again or refer me to your previous posting?

Another question: no quotes today. Silver and gold have been the same price for about 10 hours.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:27
SDRer__A () ID#28098:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The giant of so called Islamist capital, Kombassan Holding, was taken to Court due to claims of SPK ( Stock Exchange Commission ) for capital
increase without the consent of the Commission. The decision was taken
after a courier was caught carrying TL 14,9 trillion, collected from Turks in Germany without any legal document. Commercial Court of Ankara,
decided that all bank accounts of Kombassan be blocked as a precaution.
The TL 14,9 trillion has been blocked in a bank and court of bailiff, has
started legal action in Konya, where headquarters of Kombassan are
located. The SPK decision and legal action has caused anxiety among
other Islamist capital establishments who have expressed their support for Kombassan Holding. [Turkish paper]

COMMENT: Turkey is a secular republic. If the Islamic capitalists have
come this far since 1992 in Turkey, what must their holdings be in Iran?
In Saudi Arabia, etc. We may be talking about some serious money.
This is really it. Good night. Jin is tonic!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:26
Nick@C (Sovauratina) ID#393224:
Look for the mint marks. If sy --send it to me as it is old and val......err... worthless and I will take it off your hands. S,P,or M for 'modern' sovs. Cheers, crookatella.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:25
aurator (Longer boats are coming to win us, they're coming to win us..) ID#250121:
Steve in TO
TO is Toronto, no? Do you know where in TO I can get ( through a cuzzie whose love for me is about to be tested ) these alleged Gold Mounties? TIA

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:23
Steve in TO__A (James- Thank you) ID#287337:
for the info on Wheaton.


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:21
RJ (..... Got your back, Mate .....) ID#411149:
Copyright © 1998 RJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Aurator -

I know naught of Sovereigns, mate………. Sounds like a good deal though, just do the exchange in a well lit, public place. None of these midnight back ally meetings between dark cars with tinted windows. If the latter is the method of exchange, go well armed, and go with back up. Let me know if Rocco can help, he's good with this kind of thing and his presence alone usually encourages people to complete their business with very little fanfare or fuss as possible. Seems extricating themselves from Rocco's vicinity achieves paramount priority and prior plannings of villainy are set aside in favor of self preservation. It will be a good change for Rocco in any case, all these storms in California have soured his mood; he stalks the security office like an angry rhino and I believe a nice little intimidation gig would release this aggression and will go a long way to cheering his humor.


To the inquiry about Mounties -

I got 'em, but they aren't worth the premium. Makes sense at $330 and above, but there is no value in buying a Mountie at these levels.

PS -
Forgot to say…………..

COMEX silver stocks rose 1.7 mil today. I expect they will make an attempt to slam the 5.90 stops on the open tomorrow.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:17
Steve in TO__A (Disney et al.- gold banks & private mints) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold producers starting gold banks will never happen, 'cause the gold mining companies all live ( have their head offices ) in highly regulated countries where banks need gov't licenses to operate. Banks are supposed to be part of the liquidity injection process- remember fiat money is created out of thin air as a credit/debt, asset/liability pair. You don't seriously think any government that wants the right to completely control the money supply would let someone up and start a bank that stands in direct contravention of Central Banks' abilities to control the money supply, do you?

The gold companies couldn't even start up banks in havens like Anguilla 'cause the gov't can hold their head offices hostage ( the bureaucrats would declare them guilty of 'price fixing' and 'assisting money laundering.' )

On the other hand- gov'ts probably wouldn't stop a private mint. They produce jobs, etc. and are no threat, except possibly to the profitibility of their own mints, in those countries that produce gold coins.

Another thought: The technology exists for a gold-backed private bank to operate form a haven country, as long as it has no corporate presence in the kleptocracy countries. It would be possible, using encrypted and digitally authenticated internet communications, for anyone in the world to do their transactions securely with such a bank.

If you get wind of such an operation please let us know ( e-mail it to me at: )


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:13
aurator () ID#250121:
crusty, Jack, All

course what we are looking at here can, with mirrors and smoke, be achieved by a bank ( say Red Shield ) using paper to take over mines, keep the Au in the ground, drive Au down, and on the way up sell more paper, based on the precious and make a profit all over again.

So how do I know if they're Australian Sovs?
Do they jump around? Or perhaps have a tendency to bounce like a rubber cheque?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:11
SDRer__A (OOPS! Neglected to mention that the deposed Welfare Party) ID#28098:
has regrouped and renamed themselves; they are now the
Virtue Party....that Virtue Party not Virtual Party guys!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:10
Lurker 777 (aurator ) ID#317247:

Southern Coins & Precious Metals at
then click on Gold & Silver Bullion.
I called this guy last week and he said his prices were for real. I have never bought from him so I cannot vouch for him.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:05
Jack (A. Goose and J.Disney) ID#252127:
Copyright © 1998 Jack/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Those eligible stocks are worth about $46 million today. Can anyone make an offer for them, or are they tied up as backing for gold futures trading?
Arden used to divide the total $ value of the ounces in contracts into the actual value of the eligible stocks and the backing seemed to be mostly below 1%.

J.D. a bank owned by the miners is a great idea.
Do you feel yhat there is a country with a strong currency where such a Gold Bank would be allowed to operate?
I am sure that enough miners would take varying interests in such a bank based on the amount of gold contributed.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:01
2BR02B? (@klink) ID#266105:

Verry interresting-- but schutip!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:01
SDRer__A (Letter from Istanbul--re Dr. Erbakan's Welfare Party [Gold DINAR] and its 'troubles') ID#28098:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
While opposition of the civilian became more explicit, the military had to be more cautious since any comment from them is met with concern, especially in the internation public opinion. So the military chose to present documents without any commentary. Briefings given first to the judiciary then to the press explained how the group know as 100 Islamist bosses had become A GIANT ECONOMIC FORCE, FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING THE
. These companies enjoyed priority in public tenders, especially on bids for establishments of strategic importance.

One of these giants is Kombassan Holdings, based in Konya, with partners to profit mostly in GERMANY. It is estimated that about 30,000 Turkish workers in Europe invested in Kombassan, because they trust him ( a former teacher, now president of the Holding ) ...A courier was caught bring in TL 15 Trillion contributed by new partners.

Comment: I know it's Turkish Lira, but 15 TRILLION of ANYTHING paralyzes
my mind!

JohnD--excellent strategy with wives...and,not to shabby with governments {:- )

G-night all!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 01:00
Nick@C (Sovauracious) ID#393224:
Sovereigns, mate--assuming they are Aussie vary considerably in price. 1855=$25000,1870=$30000+, etc. down to spot + 4% ( BTW-a very good price ) . The older and the better condition, as a general rule--the greater the value. Also add in number minted ( scarcity ) etc.. Send me the dates,condition and mint mark and I'll send you ball-park values. Nice thing about sovs is their size ( .2354 oz.-AGW ) Try paying a 4% markup on 1/4 oz gold coins!!! . Cheers, Caraberra.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:59
James (Steve in To re: Wheaton) ID#252150:
Wheaton was 1 of my losers & 1 of the reasons I now stick with ABX. I have no idea how they can be profitable @ 300 POG when they had major problems with financing when POG was 360+. Basically, they took over an abandoned mine that has a smelter on the property. The last time I checked that had proven & probable of around 600,000 ozs, including tailings. I guess they must have sold fwd or bought puts. They have a website where you can watch the AU being smelted.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:56
tolerant1 (I have been watching this conversation) ID#31868:
about miners,and banks and all that. This whole thing is about taking the system of payments away from, and seperating it from banking. They are two totally different things, completely different things. Or am I missing something here.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:56
aurator (The Sovereign Individual) ID#250121:
He said 10, too small for you, I'd say. Who are you comparing with? Cos I've seen the great deal! cf

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:50
SDRer__A (They'll buy anything--with little or no risk premium attached!) ID#28098:
International capital markets:International bonds: Ukraine taps the euro sector Ukraine yesterday made its second foray into the international bond markets this year with its first euro-denominated offering.The E500m two-year deal follows its DM750m three-year issue last month. The proceeds of both will be used to help redeem higher-yielding domestic Treasury debt. FT, 3/10/98

Past week, 10 days--Belgium-30 yr. 4/7bn Euro; Spain-30 yr. in the billions too...Can't WAIT--there is a brand new paper to push.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:50
John Disney__A (big numbers) ID#24135:
to all
Whats the total outstanding BANK CREDIT in the WORLD
I have no idea but it must be almost incomprehensible.
Now hold 20 % of that in banking reserves. Then divide
by the amount of gold in the world above ground and
what do you get ? A big number and the new equilibrium
price of gold.
to SDRer
taking credit for not doing something you weren't gonna
do in the first place .. sometimes called getting mileage.
I do this all the time with my wife. Maybe Im part Chinese.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:49
Lurker 777 (aurator ) ID#317247:
4% over spot sounds like a great deal. There is a dealer on the net offering to buy English Sovereigns for 6% over spot and sells for 9% over. How many can you get at 4%?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:46
Myrmidon (@ John B on P. Munk) ID#339212:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

It is he that greatly contributed to the bear market of gold. You may consider him a smart man, but I think otherwise. Barrick sold forward 75% of its future production, partly to be blamed for the current price of gold. Now you may argue that it was a good thing for Barrick. If Barrick hadn't done it who knows what the price of gold would be now? $400, $500 And I am sure if Barrick had not done the forward sale, the stock would now be much higher because gold would not have been where it is.

Furthermore, other mine CEOs joined the stampede like cattle running down the hill and started the forward selling. Look where it got them, now struggling for survival. Think again what a screw up occured because of Munk. Now, he comes out smelling like a rose?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:45
aurator () ID#250121:
As long as I'm talking about coins, and noone is listening.. Can noone tell me somewhere in Toronto I can buy these non-existant mounties? TIA

I've also seen Dutch East India Co Notes. Thing is, you're planning to open an honest bank, one backed with gold, aren't ya? Where do I sign up?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:37
Steve in TO__A (Anybody know anything about this co.?) ID#287337:
FP had an article about a company called Wheaton River Minerals ( TSE:WRM ) which is doing exploration and is operating one mine ( Golden Bear:BC ) at a profit with costs of $212/oz.!

Would appreciate any info. you folks out there in Kitcoland might have about this co.?


Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:36
SDRer__A () ID#28098:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
This is a peek at World Class Diplomacy--How to get a reward for NOT
doing something you had NO intention of doing in the first place!{:- )

FT, Tues, Mar 10 1998
International:World Trade: China's currency stance aimed at backing WTO entry China yesterday expressed hope that its decision not to devalue its currency in spite of export pressures would assist the cause of its entry into the World Trade Organisation ( WTO ) .The remarks made by Long Yongtu, China's chief negotiator on WTO accession, represented the clearest link that Beijing has yet drawn between WTO entry and its stance against devaluing the yuan

Germany, I have read, has more or less assured China that they are in.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:36
John Disney__A (If you like him .. you can have him) ID#24135:
For john b
I think Munk is a jerk .. Now lets SEE where this idea
goes !!! He is the guy leading it, hey
If Munk mentions the words form my own bank with the gold
reserves, I'll change my attitude.
Dont forget, as things stand NOW he cant do this... because
the dork has sold all his production forward until the next
This mouse never forgets.
How about the Durban Deep Bank .. WE'LL DIG DEEP INTO OUR

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:35
John B__A (Barrick - the gold-blue chip) ID#17470:
Copyright © 1998 John B__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It was very encouraging today to see Barrick gain again on high volume and lead a big rise in the XAU to 77.02. When big money comes into a market sector it always first heads for the quality companies.

There has also been recent mention by equity analysts on CNBC that quality PM stocks may be a good buy. This is also encouraging after months and months of negative comments. One analyst suggested that directly buying quality stocks such as Barrick and Freeport would provide superior returns to PM mutual funds because they are weighted with secondary issues. This is proving true the last couple of days.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:29
A.Goose () ID#20136:
Has anyone heard anytime from Tyler Rose and/or Questor? I am very interested in how their deliveries are going ( or went ) . Questor should definitely have his worked out by now ( if my memory serves me ) .

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:28
James (Bob M.@Deflation ) ID#252150:
I also think that it's inevitible. The ironic thing is that the very thing that most hardcore GBs are hoping for-namely a stk mkt crash, will
be the event that triggers it. It will be a replay of Japan--pushing on a string.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:27
John Disney__A () ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Borrow your money from crazy bernie Swanepoel's Harmony
gold bank . Lowest rates in the world.

The idea of buying the CB gold is pathetic. First
where do you get the money .. borrow fron a bank and
pay interest .. then Munk ( ey ) even mentioned a premium
( the bankers must have choked up on that one ) .. then
what do you do with it ? you sell it again .. Oh
The value of Gold is primarily as a monetary reserve
asset ( forget jewellery ) . It pays no interest .. but
neither does cash. But it's better than cash because
it's independent of the GOVERNMENT that ISSUES THE
CASH. The cash cannot be redefined by the Government
that issued it. It can be used as reserves anywhere in
the world.

For SDR er ..
No - what do mah chinee flends hav to say

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:27
aurator (RJ- Centre of the Cyclone---St George and a few Sovs, Guv.) ID#250121:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
As always, thanks for your comments. I was wondering tho' about your sense of the wind's direction on gold. You see, Nick@Candelabra made the observation that POG is $AUS is flat. It is v flat in $NZ too. Kinda like the eye of the storm, if you follow me.

I have just been offered a bunch of sovs, at spot +4%, while I have a few sovs already, I've never paid much attention to dates. I have not yet seen these honeys, but I assume they are circulated. Are any dates more prized than others? Earliest is apparently 1904. Any clues from anyone?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:25
John B__A (Myrmidon) ID#17470:
This plan for the miners to buy gold is led by Peter Munk, CEO of Barrick. He is IMHO the sharpest CEO in the gold business. He is also CEO of Trizec-Hahn, a huge and successful real estate development company. I suspect that if Peter Munk is behind the idea, it's worth listening to - I believe his objective is to stabilize the POG, which is mandatory to build a base for a subsequent sustained rise.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:25
A.Goose (comex stocks for today) ID#20136:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
345,928 0 1,382 -1,382 -21,830 322,716
134,886 0 426 -426 21,830 156,290
480,814 0 1,808 -1,808 0 479,006

0 -153 36,312,838
1,778,012 153 54,484,469
1,778,012 0 90,797,307

I am getting the feeling that someone is noticing that we are paying attention to registered versus eligible. The game is getting much more serious.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:19
clone (GO GOLD!) ID#269245:
Silver can do whatever it wants for now because when gold goes, silver will follow - at an alarming rate! - c

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:18
SDRer__A (JohnD--A NEW banking system.. gold banks) ID#28098:
Have you been reading Chinese dispatches?

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:17
aurator (Oh A Bank? Course it can always do with a debt multiplying factor) ID#250121:
Copyright © 1998 aurator All rights reserved
I can be very slow. I see. You are saying a mining house can keep the gold and issue credit notes against it, isn't this rather similar to making your gold available for leasing?. Or even forward selling gold in the ground? Why then mine the stuff? Leave it in the ground and offer paper on it? My head is hurting. I cannot keep up with a mouse that never forgets. You know, as I read ANOTHER fable, I was wondering, wouldn't it be a smacker if this big sale was 7,000 tonnes? Anyone ever worked out how much gold the illuminati have?:-^ ) Or how many US$ Suharto has, like personally? ( I heard he is the richest Billionaire in Indonesia, where there are, or were 200 billionares ) .

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:12
John Disney__A (A NEW banking system.. gold banks) ID#24135:
No not coins .. not mints .. BUT....

RESERVES!!!! .. HOLD THE GOLD .. loan money
against it.. at a 4:1 ratio ( more ) and we
have a GOLD BANK and a whole NEW BALL GAME.
Mines can create reserves same as central
banks ( note lower case ) .. only they create
real reserves .. not paper crapola.
Avoid the middle man .. go direct to the
man who MINES THE MONEY!!!!!!

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:09
Myrmidon (@ John D) ID#339212:

Well John, some of us totally oppose to the idea of mines buying the CB gold. We keep talking about it because like you we object. So far only you, Bill El Zebub and myself has shown opposition to this outright stupid idea of mines buying CB gold.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:02
John Disney__A (How to get the attention of Banks.) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for Farfel ..
The idea of mines BUYING gold is about
as stupid an idea as I can imagine. I wish
you all would stop talking about it.
PULEEZE. Now if that superjerk Munk wanted
to get the CB attention. He would have said ..
How about I start my own bank .. somewhere
in the world .. Switzerland .. China ..
Hong Kong..
I use the gold I produce as reserves ..
and I put your member banks' @ss out of
business and ALL newly mined gold never
comes on the market. Then I'll buy your
gold with the money I borrow from my bank.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:01
RJ (..... Silver Linings .....) ID#411259:

If $6 holds this week, I will add to my silver positions. I see a very real possibility of a quick and viscous rundown if $6 breaks though. The charts say 5.60, but I know there is pretty good fund support around 5.80. There was a deafening silence last week regarding WB's silver but don't let the silence lull, silver has another great run left in it. Where is the bottom? I don't have a clue, charts become useless is a supply shortage and I believe liquidity in the silver market will still be an issue. Engineered or not, deliverable supplies are tight.

Date: Tue Mar 10 1998 00:01
aurator (Name your coin) ID#250121:
Now you're talking. I've been thinking about a Dutch East India Company gold coin I saw a short time ago. Private mints have existed before, they can exist again. Makes sense for a mining company to mint and market its own coins/bars/Dancing Zivas from the gold moiled by it and other companies.

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