Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:58
Myrmidon (@ John D.) ID#339212:

You are right, miners should market only the gold they dig from the ground and stick to what they know best. That is dig profitably.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:58
Bill El Zebub (@ your 21:24...You are The WILD THING...Keep the drum beating) ID#261352:
This thing is going to happen. NITE ALL.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:57
JTF (Derivatives now 94 Trillion?) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Donald: If that BIS statement is accurate, that means that derivatives dollar volume nearly doubled this year -- ominous sign!

All: Derivatives traders please correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing that the derivatives crisis -- if it comes -- will be related to the dollar volume at the time of the crisis. If the derivatives markets break down during a crisis, alot of sophisticated, 'presumably conservative' trades will get unwound, with substantial losses roughly in relation to dollar volume. Just as with Leeson and Barings or the Orange county fiasco, the disaster will unfurl when losses are reported.

So -- the more complex derivatives trades, the greater the risk of loss during a sudden market convulsion ( prior derivatives trading rules no longer valid ) . And a few months later, losses will become public. So I think it is reasonable to assume a delay of several months between the time of the actual losses, and when bad earnings reports affect the markets.

Another market convulsion like the Oct 97 one could cause many banking and investment firm profits to plummet.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:54
John Disney__A (Diversification .. an explosive suggestion) ID#24135:
to Mozel and others..
Mines should NOT market GOLD. They should obtain
Banking licences. Hold their gold .. and market
Gold should be taken from the Central banks
and used to replace cash reserves in member banks.
Think about it.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:53
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Chart) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )

Looking GOOD!

Computers, Electronics & Software Sector Chart

Tech Wreck in Progress

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:53
Myrmidon (@ Bill El Zebub) ID#339212:

I wonder what kind of strings will be attached if CBs let the miners buy their gold. That is a big IF!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:52
Bill El Zebub (@ MoReGoLd@Drudge Report...Heart attack ...old technique for shredding) ID#261352:
unwanted things.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:47
Bill El Zebub (@Myrmidom 22:19...I agree ...They can see inflation ( the response to realities) ID#261352:
of deflation ) coupled with the uncertanties of Y2K.They will begin to repurchase in time, because they want to make money.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:37
I'm Kitco born, Kitco bred, and when I die I'll be Kitco DEAD.
Go Gold.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:34
Steve in TO__A (Prometheus - the Great Depression) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It's well known that the Depression resulted from a collapse in demand due to loss of many people's life's savings in the stock market crash of '29 and the massive bank failures in the US. The drought conditions on the parairies just added to the contraction.

The Fed and Hoover's administration tried repeatedly to stimulate by easing money and *it didn't do anything.* Interest rates got down to as close to zero as they could go ( about 1/4% ) and the economy just kept on contracting.

Interestingly, the Japanese got their rates down below 1% during the worst of their contraction following the Nikei collapse, and it didn't do them any good either. It did make the US$-carry & gold-carry arbitrages profitable though. Some people have been raking in a steady income for years with these tricks, but they'll be caught running for the exits when their positions finally get squeezed by falling dollar yields or by rising gold prices : )


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:29
Preacher (Whispering Low & Ariel) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Ariel has been around awhile, so it's not a new story. It's been two years since I looked into the INNOVAT technology. At that time it didn't work very well. I am always skeptical of playing a stock for a technological improvement.
At one time Ariel had a Canadian property, but although the property had merit, it was not big enough to matter in the market of 1996 when everything had to be 3 million ounces plus.

The company did get a Toronto listing, which shows it has some worthwhille assets.

I passed on the Canadian prop. two years ago. And decided the INNOVAT technology wasn't a company builder. So unless Ariel has come up with a new project, I don't think it will become a great success.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:24
Myrmidon (Farfel, you can still eat and answer questions...) ID#339212:

... just keep the computer on the table, but don't eat the mouse!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:23
D.A. (pre.sleep.ruminations) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Silver appears to have passed the short term test. In response to last nights bear efforts a fair amount of buying is now sitting under the market. Apparently a lot of folks would be happy to own 5.90 silver. It is likely that the pressure will now swing back to the short holders as dealers begin to probe the staying power of the recent shorts. It is interesting to note that the fun and games on Access last night were almost equal to 50% of the volume in the regular Comex session. Silver speculation is now becoming a 24 hour a day endeavor.

The gold market is flatlined and there is talk of CB straddles and strangles. From a technical perspective, if the price just sits still a lot of moving averages and downtrend lines will be broken. This will encourage buying and short covering.

The drama in Indonesia should play out very soon. Once Suharto is sworn in or whatever is done in Indonesia to consecrate a new term in office, we should see the currency board plan initiated. If the currency board is successful in stabilizing the Rupiah at a much higher level than today's 11000 to the dollar, then the IMF will have a lot of explaining to do to the other countries of the region. Part of Suharto's program is no doubt the continuation, perhaps in perpetuity, of the debt moratorium. Should this become a generalized feature of the SE Asian response, the European and Japanese banking systems will be presented with a tidy sum of bad debt.

Base metal prices are holding their recent gains, even as the dollar has strengthened. The reversal we have seen does not feel like a short covering rally. The sentiment is still tremendously bearish, and the deflation story is still in it's ascendency in the financial press. Each 1 cent drop in the price of gasoline gets a full page story but the fact that China is opting for three quarters of a trillion dollars of infrastructure spending over the next few years is lost in the noise. The change in reserve requirements in the Chinese banking system is the sound of yet another monetary spigot being wrenched wide open.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:21
Myrmidon (Farfel, when all is said and done....) ID#339212:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

CBs will be net BUYERS, unless of course some big money wants to buy large amounts of gold and CB gold must be released in the market for that smart money to be able to buy the metal. One why this can be accomplished is by buying not directly from CBs but through a third party like the miners.

Farfel, I am concerned that the miners will speculate with the gold they buy in a similar way the CBs are doing now. They will forward lease, sell options against it and create a whole brand new derivatives market with their newly purchased gold.

And I bet, still the CBs will be howling to the world their sales to the miners.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:14
Stomach pangs of hunger...I must depart for a short time, my students.

However, I will return to answer more of your questions before the red-breasted Robin wings across the sun.

Read my thoughts and learn...and always ask yourselves that one singular question:

What does it all mean?

It's here.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:14
jim c (farfel@23:09) ID#69280:
I could not agree with you more. Although, it amazes me that it has taken this long for them to act. Maybe Another's prediction might come true. Let us hope so.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:11
Nick@C (JIN) ID#393224:
As you are about to enter the world of futures, there is a good book out by Nick Leeson that I recommend. You may even want to visit him in prison in Singapore for extra information on how to make money on the futures market. Cheers from Oz, Nick.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:09
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved selling gold discreetly instead of trumpeting the gold sales to the entire world with cute, cheery pronouncements such as, Gold only has mythical value today!

At least the gold producers are signalling one thing: they will no longer sit contentedly on their big fat asses, collect their salaries, and do nothing about the current gold crisis. They are actually meeting up with each other, colluding and scheming, trying to figure out how to keep the Great Gold Plunge from continuing ad infinitum. They are doing what every oligopolistic industry in this country has been doing for years...they are finally coming together in their own self interests. Hell, they're acting just like a bunch of collusive mutual index funds propping up overvalued Dow stocks...God Bless them!

That's bullish, if you ask me!

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:08
Myrmidon (@ MoReGold) ID#339212:

Ah! such things don't happen in the land of the free!!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:02
So, here we go with a new conspiracy.
Mcdougal was writing a damaging book about Clintons in prison.
Was he killed in prison ( they know he had medical condition ) to force his silence ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 23:01
Myrmidon (From where do miners get enough cash to support gold?) ID#339212:

First, my friend, this is a sad way to do it and does not change perception.

Second, after a year, the miners will be the sellers instead of the CBs. Nothing will have changed.

Third, the miners don't have enough cash for prolonged buying.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:55
farfel (@MYRMIDON...YES, RADICAL ACTION IS NECESSARY...) ID#339265: change the perception.

Miners who just mine? That went out with lava lamps, disco, and hula hoops.

We live in a New Paradigm, man.

Get with it.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:53
Speculare (The calm before..) ID#233181:
Copyright © 1998 Speculare/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Interesting change of tone over time as sentiment strongly correlates with PM prices. Ah yes, another master of the obvious...well, there were a few comments today here regarding bull/bear sentiment on the established indicator of some merit.

Those once timely and now passe' indicators such as the barnes market risk index measuring variables such as interest rates, dividend yield, or even in others; the market cap as % of real economy, fund assets as % of household savings, debt as % of net income et al. are still recognized but the relationships are, well you know, this time it's different

Noticed the target audience of the new discount brokerage television commercials? Old timers remember when you get your hat handed to you, in the final analysis, we have only ourselves to thank for this indiscretion. Adding to silver comments, Sorros with Druckenmiller watch over 25% of SIL, taken earlier this year. The media continues to report ( variously ) that the cost of global gold production is ~$250/oz. they must be thinking toward EBITDA as well as before royalty and reclamation costs. If the producers sold forward and now want to buy from CB at or below cost, it almost looks like it was fixed ( improbable ) just taking advantage of a good short term anomaly.


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:53
Prometheus (@Donald) ID#210235:
Those numbers on derivative trading. The banks have slipped through all the safeguards on capital, etc., to become wildly speculative. This is the gun at the temple that will blow out the capital markets. Baring and the recent Hong Kong troubles will be remembered as the warnings. Don't know about you, but my guess was 5 - 10% of that amount.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:50
JIN (SDRER-A...I'LL CHECK THIS EVENING!The dr name...) ID#206358:
Copyright © 1998 JIN/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Today,Both currencies and stocks in regions very QUITE!Mostly waiting for the result from INDONESIA.caution play is the policy these time!As usual,the storms will turn up anytime.Even,its not from SUMATERA.Since many govts having their's short term debt due date soon.Banks and securities firms merging are the hot topic around.Mostly facing HORROR
Would be great if you can recommend 1 or 2 good sites for my self study!i newly involved in future and option investments.And would try to earn a bit in fast money ,since the gold retail business is TERRIBLE!Have to earn to pay for maintanence ect!i think that's the way for me now!Though ,i reckon the risk,GOD BLESS ME!
By the way,There is quite good site from INDONESIA,check it out!

bye...lunch time....

jin ( )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:49
Myrmidon (Farfel, Miners should do what they know best: mining!) ID#339212:

Is this how one changes perception Farfel? What signal are you sending to the world? Miners to support the price of gold.....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:49
Lurker 777 (Auric ) ID#317247:
That new Maple Leaf with a $310 Guarantee is worth $322.43 today. The coin should sell for $308.03 ea. ( 4.7% over spot ) and a Dec. 99 310 put sells for $14.40 per oz. for a 100 oz. contract.
Does anyone know how much they are and where do to get them?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:48
...from central banks smacks of price-fixing and is illegal under antitrust statutes.

Hell, if Munk and his buddies are gonna do something illegal, they might as well go all the way.



Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:43
Auric (223 and Este) ID#255151:

223-- Here is the non-round coin. Este--I have enjoyed the postings of GSC, but I was not the one who posted about his possible new handle. Go Gold!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:41
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...seem bearish to you?

Me thinks that activisim and intervention by gold miners is potentially extremely bullish. After all, they've been sitting on their butts doing F__k all nothing ( except forward selling their gold ) during the entire time gold has gone into the dumpster. There has been no crisis management by these sad, pathetic, lackluster gold mining managements over the past two years.

I guess it's all in the way one sees the it half-empty or half-full?

What does it all mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:38
Prometheus (@great prognosticator) ID#210235:
Good morning, Nick. Been meditating all day on your predictions this morning. Deep thoughts, indeed.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:37
Ted (News from Bangkok) ID#330175:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:37
aurophile (mines to the rescue) ID#177109:
sounds very bearish to me that miners are talking of supporting the price of gold.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:36
farfel (SUHARTO'S RETURN....) ID#339265:
...means the Indonesians hate the Americans more than one of the most corrupt government leaders in the world.

What does it mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:33
223 (Spanky, do you have any more info?) ID#26669:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:33
Hedgehog (Soeharto officially returned, Asian currencies open up except rupiah, I think its CRUNCH time) ID#39845:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tuesday 10 March, 1998 ( 2:27pm AEDT )

A group of Australian Economists is warning the effects of
the Asian economic crisis on the rest of the world have
been seriously underestimated.

A Melbourne conference has been told Australia will start
to feel the effects of the crisis on its trade, employment and
current account deficit figures this year.

The Director of the Centre for Strategic Economic Studies
at Victoria University, Professor Peter Sheehan, says the
crisis means Australia must re-assess its economic outlook.

I think in Australia and elsewhere people people have
underestimated the effects of the events of the last six
months. Most forecasts around the world are being
revised downwards, I think as we come to understand it
more the impacts on Australia will be greater than people
had previously thought.

Return to the World News Menu

plus from the Asia Pacific Region in Indonesian, Chinese and Tok Pisin

© 1998 Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:33
TZADEAK* (@ Donald....Saudi King Fahd critical....) ID#374211:
One of the really interesting points in the BBC article you posted
was that an American team of doctors has been treating Fahd,
vested interest or what, also the article raises very serious doubts as to
who is really in charge of Saudi Arabia....could it be ummm oh let's see the US?...just a guess....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:30
tolerant1 (Isure, the state of emergency has never been lifted to this day.) ID#31868:
One signature, and in January the Coward Erect sent notice to Congress that it was still in effect. Mozel will know for sure what the date was.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:29
223 (Auric, do you have a picture of the new coin? And what happend when time runs out?) ID#26669:
BTW, I found a website which listed ONE of the Olympic coins for sale for $122 US. They also had a 1/4 ounce $100 whale coin and a 1/ ounce $100 wrold literary year coin listed for more. Numismatic coins, obviously, and not bullion coins.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:19
Bully Beef (derivatives. Nobody gets it!) ID#259261:
No body wants to talk about em because nobody can bullsh*t their way through them. Me included. However more than once we have seen hundreds of millions lost and blamed on them.Banks letting rogue traders do what they want without supervision. What was lost hedging some of those Eastern currencies. Ask Citi Bank politely and I'm sure they will tell you. Doublespeak in that B.I.S. document Donald. However I think it was fairly obvious it was a warning.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:19
Myrmidon (Will mines buy CB gold?) ID#339212:

Don't believe it. The CBs will make sure that they keep their gold. They will be making enough noise of future sales to depress gold's price, but this will be nothing more than noise.

Some people still don't get it. As you guys view gold, the same way the CBs view it too. They ( CBs ) are not in such need of paper money. You forget that they have the printing presses for it.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:17
Este (to Auric & Prometheus) ID#228217:

Thx for keeping me up to date.

Auric are you sure GSC is writing under a different handle? If he does I can't blame him because he took lots of flack last fall on this site and I think he was using his real name in lieu of an handle.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:17
WhisperingLow (Ariel Resources Ltd.) ID#235378:
I have some stock in this company and would like to know what this forum thinks of the investment. They are small but seem to be agressively finding new deposits and lowering their costs. Of course, they have been hit like all other mining companies. One innovative thing that they have done in the past year is to install a machine called an Innovat for washing and filtering the deposits. ( I may not be expaining this in the best mining terms.. forgive me ) . I think this could be a great company, but maybe I am wrong. I would appreciate any comments to give me a comparative viewpoint.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:15
themissinglink (Gold Charts) ID#373403:
They sure flattened out in the past few days. Is there ANY trading going on tonight?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:15
A.Goose () ID#20137:
Copyright © 1998 A.Goose/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:41
Lou_Jan ( POG ) ID#316238:

And on this one just enter the symbol for the contract you are interested in gc8j, si8h, ...

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:12
Isure (Executive Orders) ID#368244:
Copyright © 1998 Isure/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Executive orders dating back to F.D.R. days, give the president the ability to declare a state of emergency, martial law, suspension of all constitutional rights, and establish a total dictatorship with the stoke of a pen. Executive orders are recorded in the federal register and therefore accepted by congress as the law of the land which can be implemented at the whim of the president in an emergency, which he can declare.

Some examples of executive orders already on the books:

#10995, All communications media can be seizedby the federal gov.

#10997, The government can seize all electrical power and fuels, including gasoline and minerals.

#10998 Seizure of all food resources, farm equipment, and farms.

# 10999 , Seizure of all types transportation ( including personal vehicals )

#11000 , Seizure of all civillans for work under federal supervision.

#11001, Federal takeover of all health, education and welfare.

#11002, The postmaster general is empowered to register every man woman and child in the U.S.

#11003, Seizure of all aircraft and airports.

#11004, Housing and finance authority may shift population from one locality to another.

#11005, Seizure of railroads, inland waterways, and storage facilities.

#11051, The director of the Office of Emergency Planning is authorized to put executive orders into effect in times of increased international tension or financial crisis.

In short for just about any reason the president can instantly suspend the Constitution of the the United States.

Thougt this might help you sleep better tonight!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:12
Nick@C (G'day all) ID#393224:
Aussie gold share market todayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I think that ANOTHER was saying a large purchase will give the message that the 320-360 range has been violated ( and by presumption, also a previous agreement, and that one of the parties to the 'agreement' is not pleased! ) .

Rob@$C + TSE gold.
The looney bird is starting to sing. Does this precede an up-move in gold Aussie $$ does not confirm. Gold in $A STILL @ $440 - this level seems to be set in concrete. Anyone got a jackhammer

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:11
Spanky (face value of gold coins) ID#286262:
The best ratio of face to gold melt I have seen is the Panama 500 Balboa. The balboa is equal to a dollar and the coin has 1.2 OZ Au. I believe I paid $475 for one about a year ago.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:09
Donald__A (Saudi King in critical condition) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:05
GFD (And they said it could not happen again.) ID#423293:
farfel's 21:24 post raised a big red flag. It can be argued that the crash in 1929 resulted from excessive Fed easing two years before that created inflated conditions in the market and then intervening to restrict credit in 1929 due to international problems.

We may be witnessing history repeat itself. The huge credit expansion of the last few months - apparently in response to the conditions in SE asia - could very well have exactly the same results. Certainly the current american economy which is vibrant but slow growing will not be able to absorb the huge credit expansion. This means the money will flow into the market. Why build a factory when you can buy one on the market - and take out a competitor at the same time? I believe the same conditions existed in 1927-1929.

What does this mean? Watch for conditions that will force the fed to start raising rates. The New York Fed in 29 was strong armed by the Bank of England to raise it's rates due to conditions in Britain. Essentially it killed the market to save the Bank of England.

We could easily see a similar situation unfold today - notably with the Bank of Japan...


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:02
Auric (223) ID#255151:

Also, the new-fangled Maple Leaf that gurantees $310 until 2001 ( ? ) . Personally, I wouldn't pay the mark up. The thing ain't even round, for pete's sake.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:02
Speed (ROR) ID#286199:
Huh? Explain that Seque counselor

Speaking of handle changes....

Another, Big Trader, big predictions, two weeks and we'll see SUCKERS plastered all over this site again. Time will tell.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:01
WhisperingLow (Major mines to support Gold Prices) ID#235378:
Copyright © 1998 WhisperingLow/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
( This is a repost from this morning. )

There is an interesting article in Barrons this week which should be discussed. I haven't seen any comment at Kitco this morning.

Major mine group has been discussing the possibility of buying any offloading of gold by CB with the purpose of stabilizing prices. They would then proceed to move this
gold into the market in a more orderly manner. There seems to be some concern about American companies involved in such action as they might be charged with price

Seems like a good idea to me.
CB sales seem to have a depressing effect on gold.
The purchase of these sales by a mining group could neutralize the depressing of prices for the good of all.


Mines are always free to control the delivery of their product in order to get the best price. For two examples: they can simply leave it in the ground or they can select to mine
rich veins or weak veins, so I don't see a problem with their being allowed to buy, store or sell as they see fit.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 22:01
Donald__A (Wall Street bracing for more high tech profit warnings) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:59
Bob M (Deflation) ID#26059:
The final blow to the inflation myth will be the much heralded stock market crash when all the money that the debtors had been counting on on to bail them out, will suddenly be cut by 25%, 50%..who knows the number..but one thing is certain..this will trigger a new round of liquidation of tangible things..and banruptcys will sky can lend money at 1% or 20%..but the borrower must be able to service the loan..

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:58
As a regular reader of the Khaleej Times, I can safely state that Prince Abdullah ( who will succeed Fahd ) is notably anti-American in comparison to the old man. Most likely, as soon as he is able, he will move to dispense with oil pricing in U.S. dollars.


What does it all mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:56
ROR (SPEED) ID#35767:
our LIBERAL agenda is winning. another is Another.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:54
quion97 (Price of gold) ID#23398:
Does anyone know what is happening to AU to-night on CBS marketwatch & Kitco at $295 and silver @ 6.07_

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:52
223 (lurker777, erratum) ID#26669:
I noticed in your post you said The Austrian Philharmoiker one oz. 999.9% pure gold bullion coins have the highest monetary face value of any gold coin ( 2000 Shilling or $160.00 U.S. ) That's not quite exactly right. There is one coin, the Canadian 1976 $100 1/4 ounce coin, which would be higher, ounce per ounce. ( I guess that's why I'm having so much trouble finding any more of the damned things. Nobody's selling, at least that I can find. ) IMHO

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:51
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The only metal attracting greater pessimism than gold is silver. All the technical chartists are merrily heralding the fact that silver's drop ( after the Buffett silver purchase ) validates their nonsensical, meaningless reminds me of my student days, watching several of the world's most renowned Neo-Keynsian economists pull out their abstruse x-y graphs to validate their economic predictions ( inevitably after the fact, rarely before it ) . Of course, we are all aware that the Neo-Keynesian school of economics has been discredited and repudiated by most of today's economists.

The fact is that the silver market is controlled by fundamental factors, not technical ones. Fundamentally, the silver supply is fast running out relative to demand. Fundamentally, the world's most successful investor recognizes this fact ( in spite of Martin Armstrong's sad attempts to describe Buffets efforts as ignorant and misguided ) and has purchased an amazing cache of the metal. Fundamentally, the execs running the major silver mines in the world have been warning of this Silver Day of Judgement for the last several years. Fundamentally, the next major billionaire to announce a silver investment analogous to Buffets will cause an amazing upward spike in the silver charts. Technicians will utter their usual load of gobbledygook to explain the sharp spike after the fact...even though the announcement will come completely out of the blue, leaving them as shellshocked as they were on Buffett Silver Day. Fundamentally, the world's most successful investor ( Buffett ) espouses fundamental-based investing ( Graham and Dodd ) and categorically rejects technical-based investing.

So, throw away your charts...the next silver spike will come out of nowhere ( just as it did the last time ) .

This searing concept arrived on puffs of blue smoke from the volcanoes of the Pacific.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:49
GFD (Thoughts!) ID#423293:
What I find fascinating is ANOTHER making a definitive statement that gold will go up - spectacularly - on the same day that King Fahd is admitted to the hospital. Surely there is no connection whatsoever...

It will be very, very interesting to see how this latest prediction holds. His last call that gold would not go below 280 held in the face of very bearish conditions. Frankly I personally was quite surprised to see 280 hold. While there will few more astonished than myself if gold does pop above 320 I have to admit that gold indeed comported itself very well today in the face of a horrific market in oil.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:47
Donald__A (@All) ID#26793:
Everyone should read that BIS Quarterly Report. Two figures are key. Bank lending is down 188 billion on credit quality issues. Derivative trading amounted to 94 trillion for the quarter. ( Not a typo )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:45
Auric (BobM) ID#255151:

I agree that deflation is inevitable. But, I think the Fed could manage to stave it off with one more inflationary boom, via lower rates, purchasing of T Bonds, and encouraging banks to lend. You are right, though, the whole ball of wax is an accident waiting to happen. I think we are about to see a lot of volatility ahead, in contrast to the relative calm of the last two years.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:44
Speed (Este) ID#286199:
GSC posts here under a new handle on a regular basis.
Hepcat came back for a while under a different handle and he is one of few with the talent to fool us all as Another ( J. Disney and R.J. have the writing skills to pull off the scam also! ) ...wouldn't that be a hoot?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:41
Lou_Jan (POG) ID#316238:
Anybody have any sites to get an update on gold/silver prices?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:36
Prometheus (Este) ID#210235:
Look again. Heard from Vronsky today, I think. Glenn over the weekend. It's cool. But where's Studio.R?

We may have to take up a collection and buy him a new pair of jeans so he can show himself. ( Oil prices, you know. )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:35
TZADEAK* (@ Heard on the Street....Gold....Oil...US$....Dow...PT...) ID#374211:
Copyright © 1998 TZADEAK*/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Compaq Comp. is down 20% in the last week, I know the shpeal is
the market rotates between industries,or corrects sideways, but
Defence stocks were also heavy loosers, the DOW is looking
weaker to me by the day, a little feather of international bad news
should do the trick....I see that my call on Kosavo was proven out
today when Russia refused to go along with the West and impose sanctions vs Serbia, we are just starting to hear from Russia....
Many chartists and analysts were calling for the US$ to climb beyond
the 130 Yen and also vs Mark, ...didn't happen, statements made
by some Euro bankers on the role of the US$ are starting to be heard....
Gold held up remarkably well in the face of steep drop in Oil prices
and a better US bond Mkt, BUT very important is that fact that Oil
stocks are holding up very well, which tells me that this Oil price
decline is temporary....Here are some news stories from the ME
today, which is evidence of what I have been saying for about 3 months now, the Arabs are uniting in a big way :
Saudis and Libya sign mutual security agreement....
Iraq and Kuwait are in talks to resolve Gulf War missing etc...
Iran is in talks with Gulf states over ownership of 3 small islands....
Gulf Arabs laud Iran's positive trend....
But the biggest story could be the Saudi King Fahad hospitalised,
the fact that he is very ill is not news, However public news stories
like this are very important, and give some clues of what is to come....

Although I do not agree with everything that Another has said, IF
and that's a big IF, there is some movement in Saudi Arabia, as it appears with Fahad and Crown Prince Abdullah consolidates power, we could have some fireworks, and Oil and Gold would then rise together, timing and more evidence though is key....

Amplats announced today that they look for a 2% rise in the supply
of PT in 1998.....

stay tuned....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:32
Donald__A (BIS Quarterly Report full text) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:31
Bob M (Deflation ) ID#26059:
Deflation is inevitable///if the Fed increases funds slowly..they can keep the game going..if they are forced to inject funds rapidly, the bond market will squish the budding inflation before it can bloom..the reality check..there are millions of people in the world who will work cheap to feed themselves..the standard of living in the US is not sustainable..down is the only possible direction..all debt must either be paid off or bankrupted.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:29
Donald__A (BIS repost) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:25
Ted (Nothing in particular) ID#330175:
go ABX~~~~~~

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:25
Donald__A (@Prometheus) ID#26793:
The critical difference between 1929 and today is the gold backing having been dropped from the dollar. In 1929-1933 the Fed printed like crazy but the money just piled up in the banks. Bankers were terrified to lend. Much like the BIS described in their press release today. I will repost it in a minute.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:24
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Kitco is dominated by gold pessimists today. From Realistic to APH, nobody has anything good to say about the sad, pathetic metal.

However, here are some facts to ponder:

1 ) Historically, gold has served as a economic forecaster ( hence, Greenspan's religious focus on the price trend of gold ) . Given this fact, then gold's fall to the 280 level served to forecast the deflation now taking hold throughout the country. Ergo, one would expect gold to move up sharply soon in order to forecast the incredible reflation Greenspan began several months ago, pumping amazing amounts of liquidity into the money supply. In fact, surely it would not be anomalous to imagine gold rising sharply even in the face of a stock market crash. In doing so, gold would be forecasting the even greater reflation that Greenspan would undertake in order to resuscitate the financial markets.

2 ) Although deflation normally does not favor gold, certainly a severe sudden deflation would favor gold. Why? Because, at this point in time with a severely overpriced American dollar, then along with a sharp deflation would come currency instability ( in fact, a very strong deflation in America would just as likely knock the U.S. dollar off its global pedastal as would a severe domestic inflation and/or stagflation )

3 ) Lower oil prices will leave much more money in the pockets of the average American consumer. Even if we actually have product deflation ( via cheaper foreign imports ) , those consumer benefits will likely be offset by service inflation ( too many dollars chasing a limited supply of services ) . Given that we live in a service economy today, then one would expect service inflation to far outweigh import deflation. The net effect would probably be neo-stagflaton ( as economists now call it ) .

These thoughts appeared in my conceptual flow from a stream in Heaven.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:24
OURO__A (WB's Silver back to COMEX?) ID#237149:
Some of my sources indicated to me that some of WB's silver has been sold out at the $7.00 range and that it could be flowing back into COMEX ( at least some of it ) . Isn't WB a long term player? What's going on? My concern is that this may bring the price of silver back further down...anyone knows anything about WBs sale of silver?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:20
Prometheus (@deflation ahead?) ID#210235:
Copyright © 1998 Prometheus/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
LGB: Just want to throw a spanner in the works. When we calculate the possibility of deflation, it is usual to believe that tight money after the October '29 crash made the subsequent deflation inevitable. But am rereading The Great Reckoning, to review their analysis. Here's what I found:

NY Times quoting the April, 1930, bulletin of the National City Bank:

An outstanding development is the sharp drop in interest rates, marking the end of a period of credit strain and bringing rates to the lowest point in several years. In its bearing on general business conditions the advent of really cheap money has been wide heralded, and rightly so, as the most important and promising feature in the general situation. That cheap money is a tonic for the recuperation of business has been proven by long experience

from the Wall Street Journal, April 1, 1930:

Extraodinarily easy money and stability in the commodity markets are important factors working to that end [making for prosperity'.

...fundamental credit conditions have undergone a marked change for ease not only in this country but all over the world.

Have not finished peeling this particular onion. It will take awhile. Donald seems to have done quite a bit of work on this already. Maybe we can convince him to expound on his ideas.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:19
Donald__A (40% of Mexican government budget paid by oil revenues (now at 9 year low? Hmmmm) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:15
Donald__A (Giant sucking sound) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:13
cherokee__A (@---let's-meet-for-a-lotto-lunch------thwock!) ID#344308:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee__A All rights reserved


i'll be back in the costa mesa area next much is
the lottery!; ) ..big bear and brian head had better beware.
the flatlander is heading west...i smell gold...and left-wingers...

want to know the future?

study the past......and believe...

'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction' isaac newton

stalk your prey....plan its' demise.....carefully loose the arrow...
thwock!...the day can be won with knowledge and positioning....
lgbito--you can win too! repeat after cherokee...i can do it..
i can do it...choooo....choooooooo!! the little train did it!


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:11
James (Realistic@Silver Horror Stories) ID#252150:
I'd like to commend you for taking the time to post your ( 18:34 ) .
Hopefully a few people may read it & avoid making a similar mistake.

Unfortunately, most of us don't really value advice if it's free--even
though it may be very good advice. Most people nedd to take a bit of a hit before advice like yours realy registers. I count myself lucky that I got cured of the silver mkt for only around 2K.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:09
SDRer__A (Jin--Hello, I hope you see this and that you and your family are safe and well.) ID#288155:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I should like to ask a question if I may? I have been researching the two men selected to head-up the People’s Republic “China International Futures Company.” The chairman is a doctor of mathematics, I believe, Dr. Tian Yuan. Both men were selected as “Global Leaders for Tomorrow” at Davos ( the only other company so honored was Microsoft ) .

I have read, and been told by knowledgeable friends that names are very important in your culture; and, it appears that the name Tian Yuan is much honored. The poet/artist --circa 400-- and something to do with the game “GO”, called the Chinese Tian Yuan? Could you explain this to me? Or tell me where I might find a book or an article about it ( in either English, French or German? ) Thank you very much for your time and trouble. And all good things for you and your loved ones. Be safe,
soon you will be Happy!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:09
Donald__A (Oil hits 9 year low as Saudi's stand firm) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:06
Este (Who's left?) ID#228217:

I have been travelling a lot in the last few months and didn't keep up with the daily happenings on this site.

I notice that Aurophile, Vronsky, Glenn, GSC and the infamous Hepcat seem to be missing.

I wanted to tell GSC that, contrary to his repeated advice, I never sold my stocks and I am still fully invested, but I guess he'll never know.

Ted is still around and so is Cherokee who is forever standing on the shoulders of giants and LGB and few others I recognize.

Wish you all well and plenty of wisdom with your investments.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:04
Donald__A (IMF warns Indonesia trouble will spread) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:04
Lurker 777 (A SURE BET?) ID#317247:
Copyright © 1998 Lurker 777/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
At today's prices: Buy 100 Philharmonic coins at $30,803 and buy one December 1999 290 put ( 100 oz. contract ) for $820. Total cost per coin with put option is $316.03 each. If gold goes below $290 you are covered and downside risk is only 8.3%. Gold has to be higher than $316.03 to make money but you have until December 1999!
Added bonuses: Found a dealer who will buy Phillharmonic for 3% over spot so your downside risk is now only 5.3%. The Austrian Philharmoiker one oz. 999.9% pure gold bullion coins have the highest monetary face value of any gold coin ( 2000 Shilling or $160.00 U.S. ) and are the biggest seller in the world. If gold were to collapse the coins could be redeemed for their face value.
Does anyone know of a more conservative way to invest in gold?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:03
jman (Cherokee keep it up,) ID#251268:
Copyright © 1998 jman/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
you seem to be comfortable with your position and thats
what counts.Old K.R still got people raggin on him and
he paid about 5 million in taxs last year.Most of the guys
here don't understand the power of a O.I.P. and the fact that
once it's instituted it doen't take alot more money to
keep it going,just patiance and commitment and WHEN there
is a big move it's not a 0 or 2 it's how fortunes are made.
There seems to be a lot of guys here that made their money
already so they are natuarly in a protection mode and a lot of
others begging OTHERS to tell them what to do,remember there
is only 2 kind of commodity traders the quick and the dead
so may as well swing that bat Yahoo

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 21:03
a.j. (ALL: From a naive investor.) ID#257136:
Copyright © 1998 a.j./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I have owned stock in FMCG ( Freeport, McMoran Copper and Gold ) for several years now. The dividends have not been spectacular, but very regular.
As the working in Indonesia--Irianjara, to be precise, progressed the co. first bought back the IPOs which they had sold me and others in,I believe, 1989 or 90.
For those of us who chose to not relinquish their stocks, we were more or less forced to accept some cash and several types of stock for the ipos.
At the time of the Bre-x debacle ( if such it truly was ) the thought struck me that since Herr Kissinger ( and maybe others ) is a director of the corporation and a member of the Council On Foreign Relations, the possibility does exist that the Irianjara property is as fine as ever, and that the mess NEXT DOOR at Bre-x was contrived as means of the Kissinger group manipulating events so as to make the properties available to fmcg at a ridiculously low price.
One thing of which I am sure-the memn\bers of the CFR do not let their compatriates lose on any venture if it is at all avoidable.

As stated earlier, I am relatively naive, pareticulatly in comparison with the superb intellects who post with such candor and authority as well as wisdom.

My question re: the foregoing is: can any of the rest of you see any way to my possibly being correct?
I see the trouble which is dogging JIN and his fellows as possibly being a part of a totally contrived ploy to take control of the very rich mineral deposits in all of Indonesia away from the locals and also by means of fraud ( Bre-x ) from those in the West who would willingly buy more stock in the ventures if they were not being debauched as have been the local currencies and the precious metals.
Color me credulous and/or naive, but I will be grateful for any feedback . JIN; Nick@C; John Disney; Colleen: Haggis--- in fact anyone who is more familiar with that part of the world than I am. TIA

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:58
Midwesterner (Pete T_A & Preacher re: Allegheny Mining Press Release(s)) ID#349235:
Copyright © 1998 Midwesterner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I finally found these electronic links I told you earlier that I'd track down for you.

All of the press releases can be found at the following site:

Company information can be found at:

This is the latest release stating size and target areas

Check out the release of 1997-07-08 for the initial results of the 10 slant holes they did mid 1997.

Hope this helps.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:55
Bill El Zebub (@Old Gold 20:12...I believe you're correct...Alan will have to let the Geek) ID#261352:
out of the bottle in order to save the Far East and the Americas

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:53
Preacher (Mike Sheller & Mark Twain) ID#227290:

The quote you mentioned before is from Mark Twain who asked: What is a gold mine?'
His answer: A hole in the ground with a liar on top extolling its virtues.:

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:51
Preacher (Market Comments) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To all:

American Barrick has now rallied to its 200-day MA. It looks like the strongest of the seniors. Unless the move is over, it will break that line and be the first to make a move at establishing a new bull market.
Coeur d'Alene, at $11.69, penetrated its 200-day MA last week briefly. It is right on the line at this point. With silver having declined and bounced off its 100-day MA, it's a good bet that CDE will rally over the 200-day MA and have a clear shot to its 2-yr. downtrend line slightly above $14.00. The stochastics on the weekly chart are in overbought territory, though. And it could run out of steam soon. Still, the run out of steam could come at a much higher level.
With today's move, the XAU has now risen above its 100-day MA ( with no help from gold ) . Its stochastics are not as overbought as those of CDE. The XAU closed at 77.02 and its 200-day MA sits at 86.76 and is declining. It's got some work to do and will need help from gold to do it.
Gold has still not surmounted its 100-day MA but is right at it. Gold closed at $294.xx and the 200-day MA sits at 311.47. The 2-yr downtrend line sits at $323.00. To get over this line on the present move will take some powerful action.
The stochastics on the weekly chart are in the upper end of the range but have plenty of room for the price to run. In looking at the monthly chart, gold had the big outside month turnaround in January, followed by the inside month consolidation in February. It has so far held above last month's low and looks poised to begin the upmove that the outside month usually heralds.
Silver remains above both its major moving averages and both are rising, indicating a bull market. This morning, silver fell to its 100-day MA at $5.925 but rebounded to close the day slightly positive. I call this a key reversal on the daily chart.
The stochastics on the weekly chart are still pointing down, but have fallen back to mid-range.
Will silver hold the line at its 100-day MA? I guess that's unknown at this point. But now is a fairly safe place to enter the market. And the price action in CDE, a major silver producer, tells me a turnaround is imminent.

On March 1, I posted: When I put all the charts together I think there will be some major announcement or event later this week which will put some fire into all the markets with paper assets falling and hard assets rising. We will see. But it's going to take something powerful to push the dollar off the cliff. And I think it will be the same event that powers gold above its 200- day MA. Interesting picture.
Well, it didn't come last week, but perhaps the knowledge of ANOTHER's big purchaser of gold will be that event. I don't know that for sure, but if it's happening, more people than ANOTHER know about it.
Last week I also wrote that gold should make it to its 200-day MA by March 11. I'm running out of time, but am still holding out for a meaningful rally

I'll be back later with a post on the pgms and copper.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:44
grant (I've been lurkin' here fer 'bout 5 mos, I can't believe I just learned today ) ID#432221:

that you must pay Fed. taxes on PM profits, and if you don't have a reciept reflecting purchase you gotta pay taxes on the entire amount, at least at the coindealer.You guys ( androgenous ) know about this?
Also, do ya have to report the sale and pay the taxman on numismatic transactions?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:42
LGB (@ CHerokee) ID#269409:
In California, 1 winning Lotto ticket, more than compensates for 9 million losing ones...if the jackpot is high enough and you don't have to split the proceeds, and inflation doesn't reduce the value over 20 years, and your lifespan is long enough to win ( 20 million years or so outta do it )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:37
SDRer__A (Tolerant1, BillD--We all know it could have been either of the) ID#286249:
two you mentioned ( Greenspan, Idonesia ) because they are
all in the same LEAKY boat! That is why I found Stals remarks interesting enough to share...They are the New Paradigm CB is 'safe'...and it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of guys! {:- ) ) )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:36
IDT (gold quotes) ID#228128:
Copyright © 1998 IDT/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Looks like Barts charts have flatlined for the evening. Anyone know where I guy can get a gold quote?

I sold my silver coins two weeks ago and all my silver shares last week. The stocks were just not moving. Even with the recent high in the 7+ range most of the silver stocks that I follow were below their highs. The stocks certainly knew how to fall when the silver price backed off. Seems to me a poor risk reward. I took the proceeds and bought some Durban Deep which has moved up some. I agree with DJ ( great chart buy the way ) in that we should see gold decide which way to go in the very near future. I'm keeping close stops and have no conviction on whether gold can break the bears back at this juncture.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:32
cherokee__A (@---kanly-practised-here--------anytime--) ID#344308:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee__A All rights reserved

lgbito--- ( mr respectability )

1 winning trade eradicates the miniscule losses from 10 losers.
only 1.......

options and tight stops, allow for bad calls...they help you to keep your ba!!s. i use others calls to expand the narrowness the mind imposes upon
its' know...

'if i have seen farther than others, it is because i have stood on the
shoulders of giants' isaac newton

the events swirling around those calls--350 to 450---could have easily gone the other way, and we would be there today....options have legs,
and another day, is just a day away.

gee whiz..with all my bad calls...who in the world keeps adding
$$$ to my futures account? the rubber suit is always close at hand...
maybe realistic can squeeze in with you? birds of a feather, and crisco,
go together......awwwwkkkkkkkk...


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:30
Ted ('Chinese water torture'...........drip ....drip......drip) ID#330175:
April Gold UNCH @ 2-9-5~~~~~~~~~~Devils 1 Rangers 0 ( 1st int. )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:29
JTF (New demand for gold in China - 'official' report) ID#57232:
All: This is from SDRer's lead -- it's a China 'goldmine'! For Gold news, click on 'Economic News Lately'.

Please use caution -- I am not sure what the source of this data is -- may be biased if it is from Communist Chinese sources -- but it is interesting regardless.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:28
Neophyte (daily PM update) ID#390249:
The attached confirms DA's comment today that someone was trying to bring silver down and stops didn't hit.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:20
Donald__A (@Bob M) ID#26793:
I agree with you about the deflation part of your post and even could see the chance of a small drop in gold price. You can't stop the story there. Everything else will plunge a lot while gold slips a little in a likely scenario. The good news in that outlook that the gold purchasing power soars while creating a tax loss for you. Not a bad deal.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:15
a.j. (6Pak; Tom further the point developed in your post re: Islam, read the Mainspring of Human ) ID#257136:
Copyright © 1998 a.j./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Progress by Henry Grady Weaver. Gives one a fine backgrouind against which to measure a lot of modern-day happenings.
General: What Twaddle!!! As if anyone even remotely associated with any of our dear elite and coward erect could ever be put in harm's way.

As well believe that Gordon Kahl and Sheriff did not shoot one another to death at Imboden, Arkansas.

Waco was the result of a suicide pact in which the adult males in Mount Carmel waited until the Federales sprayed them with C.S.Gas and then and only then did the occupants ignite the fuel they had spread around the building so the kids would not have to face the kindness of Janet Reno and her boys.

Dying 'cause one is an acquaintance of one of the finest to ever screw us over!! Unthinkable!! '

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:14
LGB (@ OldGold) ID#269409:
No big move down coming in Gold. On this we do indeed agree. And I agree with a lot of your other scenarios also, to a more limited degree, though I believe your timing may have been off by a year or three! I MISSED this big move up in stocks, with the glowing exception of a rather large stake my own company stock ( which went up 15% today!!!!! lor )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:12
SDRer__A (Kiwi--China, bad banks that tell the truth...) ID#28593:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
a novel approach, you'll admit!
12.1 Financial assets and liabilities structure of state-owned enterprises

Then there is a table with all the figures, and then
this remarkable statement:
From the structure and scale of the financial assets and liabilities of state-owned enterprises, it can be seen that the amount of financial liabilites is more than twice as much as that of the financial assets, and that the bank loans account for too large a proportion of in the total liabilities. Such being the case, once there is anything wrong with the repayment capability of the enterprises, the bank loans will immediately begin to turn into bad loans.

Many pages containing exactly this kind of prose. Here is the url, if
your interested--but it is a strange maze site, and one must ramble around a bit to get to the 'good stuff'!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:12
OLD GOLD (deflation) ID#238295:
BOb M:Could not disagree more. Gold is a leading indicator, not a lagging indicator. Soon gold will start to discount the inevitable REFLATION AND DOLLAR SMASH.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:11
LGB (@ BobM...deflation) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Deflation's not in teh cards Bob. Firstly, AG knows full well that the problem in the 30's was lack of liquidity. He'll inflate the money supply to whatever level it takes to prevent deflation.

Secondly, we have a fully eomployed populace, and there are some pent up wage pressures building. Many jobs going begging, not just in the Silicon Valley where I live, but countrywide. Inevitably, this will be inflationary.

Dropping oil prices can be deflationary, but IMHO they won't last indefinitely. All it'll take is more middle East problems, or a new OPEC agreement, or Saddam gettin out of line again, or any number of such things to shove prices up again.

The Asian flu may cause a blip on our screen, spme cheap goods from offshore in some limited degree, but that'll be it, and the effect will be minor.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:07
OLD GOLD (forecasts) ID#238295:
LGB: Most here have made their share of bad calls myself included. Only Hep is never wrong. And he does not forecast often. The fact that Hep now seems to have joined the bullish camp is perhaps even more important than Another's latest bombshell.

Aanother staw in the wind ( pun intended ) . Gold has managed to shrug off the latest smash in oil. I regard this as VERY SIGNIFICANT INDEED.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:07
Avalon (Sometimes we all need a break !) ID#254269:
Been on assignment the last two weeks and had very few chances to check up on Kitco. Just spent a half hour checking Donald's D/G ratio for the last 13 postings and in that time, it has FIVE new record highs, with the all time high of 29.12 of today. Some of you guys are probably too close to the forest to see the trees. A little perspective can be helspful .

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:07
Silverbaron () ID#288295:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:07
WetGold (I'm again reading Security Analysis by Benjamin Graham and found a chart showing) ID#187218:
Copyright © 1998 WetGold/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
the DOW growth for late 19th century / early 20 century. Did some of my own calculations based on this chart:

In 1921, the DJIA was 63.90. An 8 year run occurred allowing a multiple of 6 times this figure; that is, the DJIA was 381.17 prior to the crash. Post 1929 crash the low was 198.69 and 3 years hence bottomed at 41.22 in 1932 ( approximately a 480% drop.

If we equate these values to the current market, the 800% run-up starting at the DJIA of 1375 ( not sure when this occurred ) would leave us at about 8200; which is about where we are statistically. The low of 7800 ( my figure ) would lead us to the DJIA of 1618. Strong parallels and scary numbers.

IMHO,,,,, this market is not done. When the end does occur, it will happen as swiftly as it did in 1929. The ratio of decline will be much greater than 480% since the market saturation is much greater than in 1929.

Today, I showed my father ( a depression toddler ) several Saints. He thought they were beautiful ( his words ) . I just so happen to have a 1928 Saint and imagined what if he had gotten one as a gift - put it away - and recently found it in Mint Condition ( MS69 ) ... ohhhhhh boyyyyyyyy!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:06
Silverbaron (Seeking advice from U.S. coin manufacturers) ID#288295:
If anyone is now in the business of gold/silver coin or medal manufacture, please contact me

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 20:05
Frustrated (silver perspective...for what it's worth...or what it isn't worth...) ID#338228:
I hold no positions in silver...except for those early dated silver dimes I find from time to time in my grocery change and hord this is of little importance to me. I don't hold any views on it's content so please don't attack me for posting it. I only report it so that those of you with silver positions my have some additional information to mull over while making your investment decisions.

This is according to Larry Edelson, associate editor of Safe Money ( formerly with SGR which has recently merged w/Safe Money ) . He says:

Reporting requirements around the world for silver are inconsistent and supply and demand statistics are, at best suspect, and at worst, outright misleading. Wall Street analysts keep track of silver inventories by monitoring registered Comex warehouses and vaults. But with enough money, a speculator - working alone or with a group - can purchase the metal in large amounts and then hide it away in private, nonreporting vaults. To analysts, however, it appears that the supply of silver has shrunk dramatically.

He further states that this is exactly what Buffett has done. He believes that there are several other large speculators, plus a handful of brokerage firms which started purchasing large amounts of silver last July and shipping it to London. He believes that is why reportable Comex inventories in NY dwindled rapidly, falling 49%, while silver inventories in London appear to be piling up. The problem as he see's it is the Bank of England and the London Bullion Dealer's Marketing Assoc. do not require public disclosure of the amount locked up in English it's impossible to get a handle on what's actually happening to total supplies around the world.

Right now, according to Edelson, several London dealers are complaining they're running out of storage space, that they're up to their eyeballs in silver. If this is true ( and he believes it to be ) then there is no silver shortage. He says quite the contrary, acording to his sources, there may be up to 500 million ounces sitting in private vaults in London. He believes there is a sharp decline ahead for silver prices.

1 ) he does not believe Buffett is holding silver for a long-term play 2 ) he believes demand is dropping substantially in India...the world's largest consumer of silver...and 3 ) that silver's price is out of whack with gold. If the ratio were to get back to its 3 yr. avg. of roughly 74 oz of silver for every oz of gold, silver would have to fall to $4 per oz.- or gold could rally to $465 to correct the ratio - which he does not believe is in the cards.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:57
SDRer__A (A. Goose--Hi, interestingly enough, it is/was South Africa!) ID#28593:
Who DIDN'T get slammed...the CB's dirty secret is that their fiat-currency grand-child is a monster, fleet-of-foot and has no loyalty whatsoever. It flees to the extra 1/2%! As one reads through this unbelievably tedious reports, one comes to realize that what the CB's need is GOLD. We should ALL send them copies of IRB's banking practices--where capital is treated in a very different manner,as a tool to foster productive endeavors!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:56
Bob M (Deflation) ID#26059:
Coming soon to North America..the first wave of deflation that will make the 1930s look like the good old has been speaking loud and clear for some time now..deflation is coming..golds price direction...down..more than anyone could imagine over the next 2 years

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:45
mapleman (Bailing Out) ID#348127:

Just to add creedence to what some have beensaying, I am about & 70 % invested in Gold and starting to look for an out. I waang in there but dont know

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:44
Donald__A (@Leland) ID#26793:
Thanks for the Wanniski post at 18:38. He doesn't hold anything back!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:42
Midwesterner (Pete T_A and Preacher re: Allegheny Mining Co. -- Gold or Base Metals) ID#349235:
Copyright © 1998 Midwesterner/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Pete re: your 16:07 - I have owned Allegheny Mining for almost a year. They currently have a very large discovery located in the Shebandowan Mining Camp, in NW Ontario about 60 miles or so from Thunder Bay. It is called their Vanguard properties and is definitely a base metals play. Gold, Silver, Copper, ( lots of ) Zinc ( lots of ) and Colbalt.

I recently received a news release from them indicating their discovery at their Vanguard Properties is much larger than was orginally thought. They now show a strike lenght of 7 kilometres ( 4.35 miles ) They have just finished something called an Induced Polorazation. I know that they are in current JV talks with a number of companies.

I'm not a geologist, but seems the latest results indicate a very large find. Their current price is in the Canadian 70 cent range, mid .50 US cents.

I will look on the Internet to see if I can give you an electronic link to their news releases right after dinner and will post later.

You can talk with their IR person in Vancouver who is Rick Martens. His toll free number is 800 266-4484.

Anyone else here on Kitco own any of this company? Perhaps we can share some information. I'm especially interested to find if anyone has been to their property as I'm considering going there next month.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:37
LGB (ODE # 2) ID#269409:
ANOTHER has spoken re Gold,
Certain posters have called this move bold,
But if history's our guide,
Some sheep taken for this ride,
may wish buy plans for Gold stayed on hold.

( LGB @cant/help/myself.... it's the medication... )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:32
A.Goose () ID#256254:
Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:54
SDRer__A ( Of the countries we are monitoring, and you guess What country's CB governor is
speaking? ) ID#288155:

U.S.of A.?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:32
223 (jims you say tomato, I say tomato) ID#26669:
Copyright © 1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Hmmm... There's something that didn't come out right there. There was a difference when I said it out loud. :^ )

You read the COMEX stox I read SSC volume. And SSC volume now is low again. Now I'm no stock trader nor guru riding SSC for 1/8 point profits, but a long term buyer and holder. But what I've noticed for several years is when SSC is low volume it just sits there and when the volume goes up over 3 or 4 million it is moving one way or t'other, often up for a brief while. IMHO

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:28
Silverbaron (Mike Sheller) ID#288295:
Yes - and trust me, I have been the fool at the bottom. No, it's not Bre-X, but second best - their next-door neighbor Pacific Amber. Anybody want to buy some?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:28
TYoung (LGB) ID#317193:
Reality is sometimes cruel. Gold is low and some may be at risk. Your weiws, or mine, regarding acting on the words of one unknown is not of importance. Belief is in the mind. A mind is sometimes a dark and dangerous thing. I hope gold rockets but a downturn would also be a reason to find joy. Cheap gold is good for buying. This is a win win situation unless all your eggs are in one basket. For those in this position I hope ANOTHER is correct. I, myself, await a confirmation. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:26
JTF (Matt Drudge: Jim McDougal was writing a book about the Clinton's) ID#57232:
All: Apparently the book Jim McDougal was writing is going to be rushed to the presses -- some time this summer. Hopefully there are many copies of the manuscript.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:21
Mike Sheller (SILVERBARON) ID#347447:
I believe the quote goes something like this:
A Gold Mine is a hole in the ground with a fool at the bottom, and a liar at the top.

Don't you just love it?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:21
The Hatt (If you are not playing the futures(another form of paper) sit back and.......) ID#294232:
relax as for those of us that hold physical donot have to concern ourselves with margin calls or option expiry dates. It is my opinion that the movement in Gold stocks is simply one more indicator that Gold is about to breakout on the upside. Trading over seas tonight could be very interesting as I fully expect the major breakout will begin in Asia or London. Just one mans opinion..........

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:20
kiwi (More gold...WHAT!) ID#194311:
Mining companies buying gold of the CB's to stabilise the price?
This is really too screwy to believe.

Maybe they are giving paper to the CB's for the loaned physical that they can't repay at these prices, hence turning bad gold loans into sales. Bum deal for the CB's.....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:19
223 (LGB anr Realistic, another side to the coin) ID#26669:
Copyright © 1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Speaking as one who's been trying to accumulate a silver plated nestegg these last few years, the recent runup in price, no matter how short lived, is a sign of trouble ahead, no more metal to be had at cheap prices. From these graphs you can see that even the recent collapse is still 'way higher than base price.

But then, silver and gold bugs are masochists, as demonstrated by the fact that Bart has a button on his newsgroup controller marked Submit.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:15
MoReGoLd (@From Tonights INSIDER REPORT (STOCKHOUSE) - Majors agree to buy Gold from CB's) ID#348286:
The TSE Gold subindex was up 157 points as it was made known that Barrick Gold, Placer Dome, Newmount Mining and Anglo American Gold Investment Co have privately agreed to buy bullion from central bankers that sell the metal in an effort to stabilize its price.

Unfortunately, the bullishness on gold did not overflow to the junior gold stocks as the price of gold remained fairly flat.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:13
kiwi (SDRer- China) ID#194311:
Waiting in the wings to spend $1 trillion in borrowed money on infrastructure in the next 3 years....who would so stupid as to expect it back?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:13
6pak (John Disney @ 15:50) ID#335190:
John I also would like to know the owners ( shareholders ) of the NZ & Australian Reserve Banks ( central bank ) . I have not discovered the ownership ( shareholders ) of the Bank of Canada ( central bank ) , yet.

One also wonders the ownership ( shareholders ) of the other nations central banks . I was expecting to see an answer to your question.
Take Care

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:11
Jack (Clone: Todays best post was..................... ) ID#252127:

Ted's joke about THE LITTLE OLD LADY, followed by DA's.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:08
jims (silver stocks the only thing) ID#252391:
Copyright © 1998 jims/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The only thing that matters to me is the level of silver stocks at the comex. Today's 1.7 million increase is bearish. All the conspiracy therory, palm reading, talk of gold backing for currencies is all future speculation. The silver stocks story is here and now, and now the stock piles are ceasing their decline. Given crashing oil prices and a deflationary environment overall and I have to wonder why I'm long silver stocks.

Does anybody have a run down on the Barron's article that seemed to prop up the gold shares today?

Silver looks like it wants to go down and test $5.80 at a minimum%

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:07
LGB (@ ODE to ANOTHER) ID#269409:
There was a great poster ANOTHER,
writing mystery posts like no other,
Talking riddles re Gold,
he had Kitcoites sold,
I am laughing and saying Oh brother

( Uncopyrighted, feel free to use it Kosaris )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:06
tolerant1 (SDRer - Greenspan) ID#31868:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:06
clone (Jack) ID#269245:
That is how I read Another's post too. I think people on this forum want to beleive that Another actually is talking about the price vice a large purchase. Good translation/observation. - c

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:04
MoReGoLd (@LGB) ID#348286:
Can't you wait a couple of weeks before dumping all over ANOTHER.
He has made a bold prediction, that most believe is not likely to happen, so your chance may not be far off. Patience mah mayn !!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:03
LGB (@ Silver) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Could it be that the Buffet hype, was harmful to the market in some ways, as we had the sheeplike pile on longs, who are now being decimated by the savvier market players who knew that they were playin old news in a market they didn't understand? And could this be the reason ( along with Buffet's concluding deliveries ) that we've seen such a decline in price?

I see silver remained stable today in the face of a rather large inventory rise. Seems like a bullish sign of resistance to further downside pressure, when we factor in DA's comments re short player attacks last evening ( IMHO )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:02
BillD (SDR'er....Indonesia....?) ID#258427:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 19:01
jims (test) ID#252391:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:54
SDRer__A (Of the countries we are monitoring, and you guess What country's CB governor is speaking?) ID#288155:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Governor's Annual Address 1996

In last year's Chairman's Address, the attention was focused on monetary policy and net foreign capital movements. The following warning notes were then sounded about the large capital inflows experienced at that

* The net capital inflow in excess of the current account deficit exerted upward pressure on the exchange rate of the[name of currency] and reduced the international competitiveness of the domestic economy. A sudden reduction in the capital inflow would demand painful adjustments and cause major disruptions.

* The overall balance of payments surplus created surplus liquidity in the banking system and stimulated an undesirable and excessive expansion in domestic credit extension.

* The inflows concealed underlying structural weaknesses of the economy.

* The large net capital inflow destabilised the domestic financial system and reduced the reliability of indicators such as the money supply aggregates, money market shortages, short-term interest rates and
the yield curve as a basis for monetary policy decisions.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:53
tolerant1 (tsclaw, what the Nostradanother says has zero) ID#31868:
effect on my metals buying habit. I get a metals fix each and every week regardless. If buillion of one sort is showing a weak price, I buy that. And when I do not, I buy junk gold and silver.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:47
TYoung (LBG ) ID#317193:
OPS-think I need a brewski. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:46
LGB (@ Jack..Interpretation) ID#269409:
That's where we've gone wrong. Exhaustive interpretation! We need a large group of learned linguists to deconstruct every syllable of ANOTHER's writings and thus find the great truth that has proven so elusive....

Are you aware that some of ANOTHER's revelations were delivered from beyond on Golden plates?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:46
Realistic (@LGB) ID#410194:
It is indeed a great compliment, thanks!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:46
Rob (Canadian dollar) ID#410114:
The Canadian dollar is flying, this is very bullish for gold

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:42
LGB (@ Realistic) ID#269409:
I like your handle more and more, but you'd make a piss poor cult leader...... ( which is of course the highest form of praise.. )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:41
Jack (A possible translation of Another's 07:55 of 3/9/98) ID#252127:

( A large purchase is now sending another message bring gold back into $320 to $360 range. We should see this in five to ten days. )

Is it the large purchase that Another refers to in that time frame and not the price? After which, Another visualizes a steady rise in price to his suggested range.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:38
Leland (A Kudo to David Sanger, NEW YORK TIMES...Does David Read Kitco?) ID#31876:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:37
HighRise (Spread to Where?) ID#401460:
Copyright © 1998 HighRise/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Monday March 9, 5:16 pm Eastern Time

IMF head warns Indonesia troubles could spread

WASHINGTON, March 9 ( Reuters ) - International Monetary Fund Managing Director Michel Camdessus warned on Monday that the crisis in Indonesia could undermine efforts to combat financial turmoil in Asia unless the problems were resolved soon.

``We still believe that if this problem is not solved soon, the whole thing is at risk,'' Camdessus told participants at an IMF seminar. He said the IMF had worked intensively to help countries hit by the crisis or threatened by contagion.

Is the Party about over?


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:36
LGB (@ Tyoung) ID#269409:
OK Tom, but you're confusin me with Realistic...he posted the Cherokee post from yestermonths of yore....which by the way has been pretty consistent with Cherokee's many failed calls in the past...second only perhaps to Steve Puetz....

Sometimes it can be a good reality check to look back on what we anticipated in the one will bat 100%, I agree there, but the hype around here re imminent explosive moves in Gold price, sometimes requires wings to stay above, no

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:34
Realistic (Silver horror stories) ID#410194:
Copyright © 1998 Realistic/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
We heard some horror stories today regarding the Silver market and these are sad events that are obviously always kept secret! It's still a sin to bring it up...

Several North-American brokerage companies had to start legal proceedings last week and today in order to go after some of their clients who failed to meet their severe margin calls as a result of the steady downfall of the Silver prices over the last few weeks.

These traders/investors went heavily long taking the example of Warren Buffet. If Warren bought a bunch of Silver, we may as well do the same, isn't he a guru? they may have thought. These people bought at amazingly higher prices than when the bull market really started several months ago, they bought at amazingly higher prices than where Buffet bought his contracts and they bought at amazingly higher prices than where Silver is at these days!

Past comments of this forum are kept so that they can be checked again but I don't think too many here take a few minutes a week to re-visit the days when some memorable events took place and read what people had to say back then and believe me, it is a great learning experience that could make you understand more about the psychology of trading and investing! Just for the fun of it, comments posted the following 2 days of the Buffet announcement should be checked again and it will make you understand what has happened in the mind of the majority and the actions that followed...and is there a need to repeat that Silver prices steadily came down ever since?
Yet, Silver had only one way to go and it was up according to many many traders/investors who expressed their opinions and beliefs then.

Comments from 2 week-ends ago ( remember the last little Gold rally going into the week-end? ) are also telling about how quickly people become so excited when they see a market movement that they want to see instead of always remaining objective and calm by evaluating and judging what the markets have to say.... 'cause MARKETS are ALWAYS right after all, no matter what we want them to do.

Several families will probably feel the effects of the leveraged bets made in Silver by those who always need to follow the others in trading and investments.

This week, next week and the week after the same thing will just keep going....a few will make predictions by inviting others to follow them ( sometimes in a subtle way and some others times more openly ) , the excitment of some readers will start to rise because the predictions happen to be in line with what they want the market to do and life is just great....until reality hits them.

Unfortunately, it is a very costly way for many people to learn and what's even more sad and fascinating is that most people never learn. They are waiting for the next one to stand up and make the prediction that they have been waiting for! And life becomes great again, at least temporarely.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:32
TYoung (LGB) ID#317193:
I believe my veiws on acting on the guesses and predictions of anyone including ANOTHER are well documented. I only noted your shot at cherokee because it was obvious that the statement was a guess. Step up and call for an up or down move when the market has been going the other way as you deem appropriate. Lighten up on guesses vs. hard predictions is all I'm saying. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:28
Ray () ID#411149:
cherokee- I must agree and am swingin for the fences. One more time!
see ya at top.

Hey vronsky- ya know where that is! iffin El Nino don't ruin it before
we get there.

Tally Ho

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:26
LGB (@ Time) ID#269409:
According to Ramtha and Shirley McLaine, all time is relative so whether Gold goes up now, yesterday, or tomorrow, it's all the same and we all benefit! ( Gazin at my crystal...incense a-burnin... )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:24
LGB (@ OldGold...who should invest in Gold?) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
ColGold, you said earlier I suspect more than a few will jump ship if Another's projection of $320 within 10 days turns out to be premature.

If someone is buying Gold OR bailing out based on the predictions or failed predictions of ANOTHER, do they belong in Gold investment in the first place? Do they not become the very sheep ridiculed here so often?

After all, a mystery guest from beyond with no history, no identity, no peer review, no accountability, and no consensus from other analysts.........should not be the source of someone's investment decisions, in or our, no?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:22
A.Goose () ID#20137:
Just think one ounce of gold is worth 3,240,600.00 Rupiahs.

Well, for some strange reason it makes me feel better ( :^}

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:21
Bully Beef (LGB a very funny man...The bones are caste.) ID#259282:
Is that in your time or my time or time long long ago?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:15
LGB (@ ANOTHER) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You're quite right, it takes guts and saavy to make mysterious market calls. In fact, I feel badly for questioning ANOTHER's credibility now.

This is particularly true considering that I called 1-800-Go Psychic today, and they reported that indeed, Gold will hit whatever number I name. Furthermore, a bonecasting session, and palm reading at Noon time, also called for $320 + Gold in a week or so. Therefore I retract my eariler comments and add my vote of confidence to whomever, kinda, sorta, maybe, thinks Gold could, perhaps, someday, or in the next few days, under certain conditions, possibly broach the $320 to $360 level.

Where's Steve Puetz's full moon/eclispe predictions when we need em

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 18:14
tsclaw (GOLD & ANOTHER) ID#318118:
How far would GOLD have to move up in the next 10 days before everyone on this forum contacted their broker/dealer to load up on more stock/bullion. I'm betting on $301, except for about 3 of you that will hold out for $311.

FARFEL - Someone has to be selling at the bottom, like your cousin, so the rest of us can buy! That story sure signals a bottom is very close, if not already here. I'm 80% invested in gold now and considering going higher.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:56
Jack (One thing about ANOTHER) ID#252127:

Those post that I've read have never giving me indication of him BLOWING HIS HORN. Right or wrong I respect his opinions and knowledege; timing a short term move is no easy feat.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:52
Hedgehog (A King is sick) ID#39845:
Copyright © 1998 Hedgehog/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Tuesday 10 March, 1998 ( 2:55am AEDT )

King Fahd of Saudi Arabia has been admitted to hospital.

The official Saudi newsagency SPA, quotes a palace
statement as saying the monarch was taken to King Faisal
Hospital in Riyadh suffering from inflammation of the gall

King Fahd was hospitalized in November 1995 after
suffering a stroke and called on his half-brother, Crown
Prince Abdallah to run the affairs of state for six weeks.

The monarch recovered and returned to his duties,
although Prince Abdallah has increasingly played a more
prominent role.+ + +

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:49
cherokee__A (@---stand-by-my-call------and-use-options----i'm-always-premature---oops!) ID#344308:
Copyright © 1998 cherokee__A All rights reserved


you forgot to add the post about klinton tam bien!
put them together....add 1....maybe 2 months.....options...
and here we are....waiting on 'another' to pull the trigger....har..har..har.....would've happened regardless.....
and happen it some more comex data..
or my grain calls.......somebody will
stroke your kitty..kitty..kitty.

you must step up to the plate in order to hit a home run.
buy the market that is in dis-favor, ignored, LOW. contrarism...
the way to BIG PROFITS.


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:46
Bully Beef (Gold was flat just before the last rally to 305.) ID#259282:
Was it not? That was just before newyears no?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:39
TYoung (Realistic) ID#317193:
I hardly think cherokee hanging on a limb is a question of credibility. Everyone is entiteled to a guess. The worm always turns-the question is when. One can always wait for confirmation before making a prediction. Much safer eh! Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:37
Hedgehog (re ANOTHERS $320 call!) ID#39845:
Dont hang this one completely on ANOTHER. Others have suggested
precisely the same magnitude of movement in same time frame.
Me? If this $320-$360 call does not eventuate, I wont be
looking for heads. I'll be fine tuning my analysis and
eliminating the psychic components of it. Tar and feathers
and Groucho masks are us.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:33
HighRise (Rumpled ) ID#401460:

Yes, XAU up over 2 today, rotation into mining stocks may have started- I hope. There sure was a lot of interest in ABX & NEM also.


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:27
robnoel__A (I'am real HAPPY that gold has not gone above $300) ID#410198:
The longer it stays here the more I can before the GDP ( generally dumb public ) figures it out,the move will come,when it does that means a whole lot of other bad things have happened

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:22
Rumpled (TVX----+.28---ON 471,225----SHE'S A TURNING BOYS!) ID#336297:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:22
DJ (PA) ID#215208:
223 - Yes, but ... With the price of palladium up, recovery of PM's from old catalytic converters becomes more viable. I know, for instance, that recovery is a growing business for Stillwater's refinery. Also, a slump in new car sales can be a negative. Didn't I hear that new car slaes in Japan was down 20%? As you say, there is no clear, convincing argument one way or the other. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:16
Realistic (Credibility) ID#410194:
ANOTHER's turn will also come soon. In 5-10 days!

Date: Sun Jan 25 1998 17:10
cherokee__A ( @-----the-fin-who-shares-------- ) ID#344308:

feel like hanging on the to 350+...this week..
450+ before the end of feb......

chryssalis of gold.......from ankle- biter to star- rider.....and the
smoke- signal- mobile will ride shot- gun........ALLABOARD!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:15
223 (DJ re palladium ceiling) ID#26669:
Copyright © 1998 223/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Everything I read about palladium demand does not bode well for reduced commercial need in the next century. I suspect we'll get to the point where it passes gold if the CB's keep holding POG low. $400 per ounce is not an unreasonable price for CC makers to pay if their catalytic convertors use a tenth of an ounce or so per copy. The same is true for other users like battery and fuel cell makers. Such items are still relatively expensive, yes, but irreplaceable and destined to be more so as we need more alternative energy sources. For many uses its only substitutes are platinum or rhodium, both more expensive. IMHO

The present price looks fair and the demand steady. The problem now is that with Pd fairly priced there is both upside and downside risk. IMHO

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:14
Realistic (COMEX DATA) ID#410194:
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Fell 1,158 troy ounces to 479,006

Silver: Rose 1,778,012 troy ounces to 90,797,307

Copper: Fell 66 short tonnes to 110,935

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:11
Ray () ID#411149:
Copyright © 1998 Ray/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
My business issa so good I can tell you for a prediction
about the commin INFLATION. Back in the 70's we had the
same condition and everybody was bitchin about inflation
and gettin RICH. Then them Ole Boys [dba Paul Volker]started fightin inflation
and we been POOR eversince. Heck let the goood times roll-
print that money. BUY GOLD SHARES!

I don't know iffin I am smart or jest lucky- bought that big
ole gass guzzler last fall and now oil is -$13bbl. gas goin down,
gold goin up. [sorry bout that Jeil]

BTW- Preacher, the idea of an explosive up side breakout fits
right with my friends astrological forecast of $550 gold by August '98.

Tally Ho

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 17:08
Those who possess physical gold are sovereign and free. Those who rely on government issued currency have given their freedom to that government - just as those who have debt have given their freedom to the bank. TRUE! - c

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:56
TYoung (Warning) ID#317193:
Took my own advice today, gold may therefore go down. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:51
Myrmidon (@ Preacher, Sojourn, Farfel) ID#345176:

The fact that most Kitcoites exchibit some concern about the low price of gold does not mean they are in despair. The more one has invested in PMs,
the more he is concerned because a large portion of his net worth is in bullion or gold stocks.

When people act and sell bullion or gold stocks, THEN THE TURNING POINT IS NEAR. Lots of talk but this is not an indication of pessimism.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:49
Charles Keeling (@ farfel) ID#344225:
Copyright © 1998 Charles Keeling/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I alone know exactly what it would take
to move GOLD out of the doldrums and to
exaalted new highs.

ALL I need do is sell out my position. THEN
everyone on Kitko would reap immediate rich,
well deserved rewards as gold would be off
like a skyrocket.

I know---because everytime I wash my car it

I am looking at my DOW/GOLD chart, and this
new HIGH is unbelievable. The great DOW
BULL is dead and just hasn't dropped yet.

Fellow KITKOITES, I give you a great SPIKE
followed by a three year GOLD BULL.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:47
SWP1 ((Where do I find the XAU quotes and where does it trade?) ID#286224:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:47
chevy (Buy Stops) ID#287358:
Another strong day for the gold stocks. If this continues I would expect alot of buy stops tomorrow. Abx is the leading the charge at 20 1/4. Its very close to a breakout on the upside.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:41
Ray (Kitco is sloooooow) ID#411149:
Preacher- sure do like that sermon.

Somebody issa buyin gold shares!

Tally Ho

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:40
lenaxe (ALL.... The action of the PMs today was quite encouraging) ID#319181:
After going up a bit in the morning, then dropping back a bit, the PMs traded most of the day above the openings. I particularly liked the fact that they started to move in the last half hour of trading. This indicated some anticipation of a favorable trading day tomorrow. Volume remains relatively light, but tomorrow could be the day that we see some real volume and movement. CDE, ABX, TVX among others, closed at or near their rally highs. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:37
Sojourn (@Preacher, look at the hand-wringing right here on Kitco, I think it is time) ID#28781:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:32
Preacher (Explosive Gold Action) ID#227290:
Copyright © 1998 Preacher/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To all:

If you will recall, last week I posted that we would see explosive action in gold shortly. If it's going up, the action will need to be explosive because the 100-, 200-day MAs sit above the gold price and a two-year downtrend line sits above the MAs. There will be no mellow rise up to $320.
At least, that has been my position. ( So far, there has been no explosion nor a mellow rise. )
Now, ANOTHER comes out saying gold will be at $320-$360 in 5-10 days. That qualifies as explosive.
If this happens then the technical action foresaw it.
The XAU rose very well today while gold fell $.30. I like it. It's time for gold to join the party.
Also, most of the junior producers, development stocks, and exploration stocks were down today. More and more people are throwing in the towel right before the explosion.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:32
...the majority of Kitcoites now regard ANOTHER as the Gomer Pyle of gold prophesy.

What does it mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:29
farfel (CYNICISM, DOUBT, AND DEFEAT....) ID#339265:
...over 75% of the KITCO posters are exhibiting these traits with respect to the future price of gold.

What does it mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:28
Preacher (Pete & Allegheny Mines) ID#227290:
I haven't followed it in over a year, but the Allegheny Mines I'm familiar with was a gold company, not base metals. It had former producing properties in Canada, no money, and a CEO named George ? who wouldn't jv the project because he thought it was so great he didn't want to give it up.

If George is still in charge, I'd say leave it alone just because of that. But could you please update me on the story? Then I'd have more to say. Also, I'll check into it some on my own.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:27
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Gold/Silver Ratio = 48.39

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:26
Sojourn (Barrick Gold Comments) ID#28781:

Barrick poked above it's downtrend line connecting the January-February highs. volume good. If this was a false move we'll know right away tomorrow. If not look for some more gapping action on the upside. Stay tuned.!!!


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:25
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .261 ( the 1998 high was .262 set on January 2nd when spot was 288.10, the D/G ratio was 27.65 and the XAU was 75.34 )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:23
Donald__A (@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 29.12 ( This is a new high. The last high of 29.11 was set Friday )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:21
Carpe Aurem (What's Up?) ID#339292:
Gold's flat and stocks are having the best day they've had since Feb 26. Looks to be mainly Barrick, Placer, TVX, and Aber pushing the TSE Gold Index. Aber because of their feasibility study on Diavik, but the others? Is this due to Barron's article?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:17
clone (correction: themisinglink spent, not spend) ID#269245:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:12
clone (Send out the word, TRADE THE PHYSICAL!) ID#269245:
Copyright © 1998 clone/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Friday evening, themissinglink spend an hour on the Yahoo chat groups talking about gold. This forum is a great source of information, but we need to get the word out. BUY GOLD AND SILVER COINS AND USE THEM IN TRADE!! Keep what is necessary and use the rest for barter. Until the physical is used, it will remain unimportant and unnoticed in the mainstream. We have allowed our governments to snowball us with crap paper, issued by them. It is OUR duty to RENEW this world's interest in hard assets, real currency based not on confidence! THIS WILL DRAMATICALLY INCREASE THE DEMAND FOR GOLD.
Also, why fuss about Another's identity. It doesn't matter! Listen to what he says with an objective ear, and give him a break. Why is there need to comprimise his identity?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:09
...just got off the phone with a cousin, the first real goldbug I ever met in my life many many many years ago.

He informed me he has dumped all his Au and is looking to buy back into the next Hi-Tech rebound.

It is very hard to find any optimism left in the gold investment arena.

What does it mean?

It's here.

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:07
Pete T__A (Allegheny Mines) ID#170184:
A Junior Base Metal Co. named Allegheny Mines Co. has been brought to my attention by my broker. After doing some research, the company looks very promising. I was wondering if anyone was familiar with it. If you are, I would like to hear what you think. Thanks


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:07
LGB (@ Old Gold...Predictions...) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
@ ANOTHERS prediction of $320 in 10 days premature? Ahhh but OldGold...surely we ALL believe that Gold will exceed $ SOME point in time. So timing, amount, and duration in this equation are the variables that make such discussions meanignful.

Personally, I would be very hard pressed to make such speculative scenario prognostications as ANOTHER now has ( being careful with terminology since the weasly lawyerly Bill Clinton types among us call us simple minded if we call his post a prediction )

Many here, myself included, have made very specific calls in the past, some with good records, some not so good. What's interesting about ANOTHER's prediction, is that it's based NOT on some broad based study of markets, are tech, analysis, or school of economics, or...or..or....

Instead, he's basing his possible scenario on his INSIDE knowlegde of specific market actvity of a major buyer and the real players who will drive this market. All his toughts also involve these inside real market maker behind the scenes, oil linked scenarios. As such, in this case, his quasi prediction has a different meaning than most folks predictions would, and thus his credibility hangs in the balance ( IMHO )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:03
JOE Smith (Appointment of reciever puts in doubt delivery of 8.95mill oz silver at $6 july sept 99) ID#24869:
It is reported today that Rothschild, moving to protect its interest in Bonnockburn mine has put some shadows on the promising Morobe gold-silver project in Papua New Guinea....further clarification is needed

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:01
Ted (Ray) ID#330175:
misery loves company

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 16:00
Ted (Tolerant1........Pain is good....) ID#330175:
Go Princeton Tigers~~~~~

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:58
Ray () ID#411149:
Ted- My weather ain't no better! and tonite all the peach crop will be history. How do you buy june calls on peach juice?

Another on another- you can tell this person must be a bullion
dealer cause of the bad talk about the shares.

Myrmidon- good example!

If any of you like the idea of an OIL and GOLD play in one vehicle
you ought to give Arden a call

Where did that PREACHER go?

Tally Ho

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:57
CJS (vronsky- Abu Bekr al-Rashid Mar 09 14:08) ID#329157:
Copyright © 1998 CJS All rights reserved

No doubt you refer to the article's white text on a green background.
I am sure it is not lost on you that many Arab countries' flags contain these colors, plus red or black. Only one is white on green, and that is Saudi Arabia.

What of the name Abu Bekr al-Rashid?

A group bearing the name al-Rashid were ( or indeed still are ) arch rivals to the House of Saud- having overthrown the Saudi state in 1891 and themselves fallen in the 1920s.

I don't know if they still have aspirations in that rôle.

There were two Caliphs of Arabia with the name al-Rashid ( although neither also bear the name Abu Bekr ) .
Note that classical Arabia includes both Saudi Arabia and Baghdad ( and there is an Al-Rashid hotel in Baghdad ) .

Harun al-Rashid.........786-809
Al Mansur al-Rashid....1135-1136

Abu Bekr is the name of the uncle who took the Caliphate for 2 years after the Prophet Muhammad's death.

The Prophet Muhammad was born in Mecca ( Makkah ) in the year 569 CE.
Mecca ( Makkah ) is in Saudi Arabia. That country again!

Note carefully this excerpt regarding Abu Bekr from

following Muhammad's death in 632 C.E. there appears to have been a general consensus in settling the succession or Caliphate on his uncle, Abu Bekr, who had been one of the original party of emigrants, however, this was not without opposition from the ansari who felt that they were being overlooked.
After two year Abu Bekr was succeeded by Omar, another of those who had fled with Muhammad who greatly extended the area under Islam, not least by defeating the Persian Army at Nihavand in 642.

The four Early Caliphs are known as the rightly guided caliphs.
Abu Bakr was the first ( 632-634 ) .

So; parts of the name Abu Bekr Al-Rashid clearly have distinguished connotations.

The choice of this name, with distinguished roots, and links to Muhammad and the rivals to the House of Saud, in connection with an article about
skulduggery in international trade in oil/gold, suggests great and
deliberate significance, and we would not be amiss in looking for axe grinders.

Oil is making new lows as we speak!

You will hear again about Gold and oil another time.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:50
John Disney__A ( Who owns these things anyway) ID#24135:
For Salty
Who owns the NZ reserve bank and who
owns the Australian Reserve Bank .

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:44
tolerant1 (Ted - 15:37, still laughing, that one hurt!!!!!!) ID#31868:
March Madness - Go Kentucky!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:43
OLD GOLD (patience) ID#238295:
HEP MONEY MAN: You are so right. PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE. This gold market is changing, but I suspect more than a few will jump ship if Another's projection of $320 within 10 days turns out to be premature.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:43
Silverbaron (Myrmidon) ID#289357:
I'm not knocking investing in gold mines ( I do this, also ) . My point is that it is very risky altering your investment strategy ( whatever it is ) on the basis of this new 'insider' information. By the way, I hope he turns out to be right.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:38
farfel (@WHISPERING LOW RE: 09:48 BARRONS ARTICLE...) ID#339265:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
...and price fixing by gold producers?


What about price fixing by major mutual fund companies? When an index stock begins to tumble, do they allow natural forces to take it to its equilibrium price point?

Of course not...they target the company and support it at an artifical price level.

I find it hilarious that, in this country, antitrust laws are solely designed to prevent manufacturers and commodity suppliers from fixing prices on their products. However, these same antitrust laws do not apply to oligopolistic financial entities that fix stock and bond prices.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:37
Ted (anyone notice---------------*go team Gold*----as 'March MADness' looms) ID#330175:
That McDougall & EB disappeared at the same time ( hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ) --just food for thought ( munch...munch )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:37
6pak (CONSPIRACY @ TRUTH (INTERESTING MATERIAL- A view that I believe has merit)) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Conspiracy & Cover-Up The Truth Is Out There
By M. Sabeheddin

Ignorance...brought about anguish and terror. And the anguish grew solid like a fog and no one was able to see. - The Gospel of Truth, 17:10 Nag Hammadi Texts

Humanity is asleep, concerned only with what is useless, living in a wrong world....Do not prattle before the People of the Path, rather consume yourself. You have an inverted knowledge and religion if you are upside down in relation to Reality. Man is wrapping his net around himself. A lion ( the man of the Way ) bursts his cage asunder. - The Sufi Master Sanai, teacher of Rumi, in The Walled Garden of Truth ( 1131 C.E. ) .

The structure of the modern world demands mass adherence to faith in the institutions that maintain the existing order and make it run. These institutions are innumerable: government, business, science, education, politics...and their survival is dependent on people's faith in authority.

We have to believe the institutions are functioning in our best interests, wrote Vankin in his 1991 ground-breaking book Conspiracies, Cover-Ups and Crimes.

Conspiracies are detected only by the exercise of unfettered perception and thinking. Thus, conspirators must propagate a necessary level of confusion in those whom they seek to deceive and control.

The mere realisation of the existence and activities of various 'conspiracies' orchestrated by powerful ruling elites, has a largely liberating effect on a thinking individual, disclosing to him as it does the vast magnitude of the lies and deception incorporated in the various layers of official culture.

FYI...Another...Good Read....Take Care

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:32
Myrmidon (@ SilverBarron) ID#345176:

Well, I rather be sitting on the side of a well managed gold mine instead of gold bullion.

ABX was $2 ( not long ago ) and is now $20. Bullion? You know the rest of the story.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:32
Ted (RAY) ID#330175:
No problemO~~~~~~~~I aim ta please....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:29
Ted (With GOLD in the least our weather is lookin up---------------------) ID#330175:
Copyright © 1998 Ted/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:26
farfel (@HAGGIS RE: 09:02...SEPTIC TANKS!!!! .) ID#339265: not come down hard on the Yanks! We need their purchasing power to save the Au market!

Haggis...Haggis...what are we gonna do with you? Let's say we fly you up here and make you spend at least a year living in America...maybe a nice studio apartment in Manhattan...or a beach house at Malibu. We'll find you some Yank women to pleasure you and then, eventually, you might fall in love with America.

It's not too it?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:25
Silverbaron (Ray @ ANOTHER) ID#289357:
M. Twain said something about the definition of a gold mine being a hole in the ground with a fool standing next to it. ( paraphrased )

Acting on the ANOTHER insider info, gives you the chance to be either a king, or one of Twain's fools. Gentlemen, place your bets.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:14
Jack (Thanks for the great joke) ID#252127:

Glory to the little old ladies. It ain't easy to have both a banker and a lawyer by the balls.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:12
DJ (6th time the charm?) ID#215208:
Assuming its price holds up overnight, for the 6th time palladium is knocking at the palladium ceiling, around $243 ( London PM closing ) . This time is different. This week the upward trend line for PA intersects the palladium ceiling. Will it shatter the ceiling this time, finally level off, or maybe even decline. Gentlemen, place your bets.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:11
Myrmidon (@ tsclaw) ID#345176:

I mentioned in an earlier post that Bart knows from where ANOTHER posts ( maybe not who he is ) from the server location, ie. the e-mail address. But I hope that Bart respects participants' privacy, as I am sure that he does.

So, it is up to us to solve the mystery, and it can be solved.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:11
Ray () ID#411149:
Copyright © 1998 Ray/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Ted- You win a big award with your Little Ole Lady joke. Best thing I heard all day, and needed a laugh. Thanks!

JTF- I will agree with your inflation, deflation scenario. As I have said
all along if it does happen that way, who ever has whatever money is
will be able to buy the world on SALE, again like WE did in the 30's.
These 1/2 $million mansions in 5 years can be bought for $15,000!
I just sold timber after two previous cuts for $3000/acre, in five years
I will buy 30 year ole timber property for a fraction of that.
Buy gold and the shares now, own the place later, THE WHOLE PLACE.

Tally Ho

PS- what do you say about ANOTHER- I have been skeptical all along. Now
we will see who is SUCKERED.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:10
Speed (General) ID#28861:
The best conspiracy theory so far is that McDougall isn't dead. His death was faked and he has been spirited away to the FBI witness protection program and will reappear when needed by Starr. I don't believe it, but it is the best I've heard so far. GO GOLD!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:09
tolerant1 (tsclaw, ) ID#31868:
Did you notice when the Another entity book went on sale and the Copyright will belong to: started? Answer your own question my friend.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:08
farfel (@CHRISOPHILOS...RE: 04:52...SO SHOW ME THE MONEY!) ID#339265:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
You theorize that Munk sold forward most of Barrick's gold in order to force down the values of the junior gold producers, thereafter he would make takeover bids and swoop them up for pennies on the dollar.

OK, so where are all the Barrick takeover offers? I CAN'T SEE THEM! WHERE, OH WHERE COULD THEY BE?

You know why there are no takeover offers? Because Munk is scared Sh__TLESS...afraid he has created an unstoppable snowball rolling down a hill that will take gold to such low levels that ultimately even good old hedged Barrick will be making a visit to bankruptcy court in another year or so.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:06
HepMeMoney_Hmm (Poetic Thoughts!) ID#39971:
Copyright © 1998 HepMeMoney_Hmm/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Another has put,his thoughts in clear view,

For all to ponder,as he bids Kitco adew.

You now have substance and reason to ask,

Was this just a prank,or facts under mask?

Time is agian,the subject of contention,

The direction is clear,tick tock,as I've mentioned.

Those traders,who's calls have been fair in short terms,

Must look at the big picture,let no stone go unturned.

Time is the keeper,this gold market has changed,

When all's said and done,it shall be rearranged.

Cries from the pits will echo so loud,

Self exposure will result,informing the crowd.

Don't worry!be happy!patience is your friend,

Your in good hands now,believe,this market will mend.

Thank You

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:05
Silverbaron (General) ID#289357:

J. M. - Yet one more ex-friend of Bills's, now deceased. Part of a long tradition.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:02
tsclaw (ANOTHER) ID#318118:
I've been observing the game everyone here plays trying to guess who ANOTHER might be. Has it occured to anyone besides me that Bart would know. Bart has the registration info provided by ANOTHER when he first signed onto this forum. It is not that difficult to trace an E-Mail address!!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 15:00
...YES...schizophrenia, that's it! The gold bear inside me and the gold bull inside me both thank you immensely. Can you recommend a comfy institution for us to visit

F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:57
General (McDougal conspiracy theory?) ID#365216:
Has anyone heard of any websites or info on conspiracy theories
regarding the death ( apparent heart attack ) of James McDougal?
They do have drugs now adays which can induce heart attacks,

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:55
tolerant1 (I want to see Camdessus on Mill Dam) ID#31868:
street cleaning windshields, right next to his buddy Kissinger. Does not anyone else besides me find it very odd, that while they are telling everyone else to suck it up and live with it financially, they eat caviar, and drink fine wines.

I would not cross the street to spit on either one of them if they were on fire.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:51
6pak (New World Order @ Utter Nonsense via Islam & Muslims (Gold Coins)) ID#335190:
Copyright © 1998 6pak/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

......................Why the West Hates Islam


During the past year we have once again witnessed the West's open enmity of Islam and Muslims. The Gulf War was a little short of yet another Crusade. The West's triumphalist propaganda and claims to have created a new world order are utter nonsense or, at best, imaginative thinking. The Gulf War has merely confirmed everything we have always known, this can be summarised as follows:

The U.S. and Western allies, having planned, financed, supplied and supported Saddam Hussein's war against Islamic Iran for eight long years, knew Saddam Hussein's fighting capability. There was no danger from him.

Fear of Iran: The Western air forces did not chase fleeing Iraqi planes into Iranian airspace. Perhaps Saddam, by using Iranian airfields as a safe haven for his airplanes, was hoping to provoke the West into bombing Iran. But the West refused to be provoked.

What did the West fear? Surely not Iran's airpower, or Iranian anti-aircraft capability. Iran had precious little of these. The West feared the power of Islam that is Iran today. They realised that if they ventured into Iran, that would be their Vietnam and Waterloo.

The Imam's strictures against communism apply equally to social democracy and capitalism. Communism collapsed because it was the ultimate form of capitalism, with the State playing the role of the capitalist. Corporate capitalism that has developed under the guise of social democracy is ultimately just as inefficient, wasteful and morally bankrupt as communism had become in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe and China.

Greed and profit: This has created a culture of institutionalised greed leading to high mass consumption. Profit maximisation has been made respectable by economic theory, but at the same time wage maximisation is immoral. Companies can regulate supplies to raise prices, but labourers must not withhold labour or else they are causing disruption.

...................ISLAM and the Abrahamic Tradition

When the crescent triumphed over the cross in southern Europe it was a harbinger of a civilisation that had no equal in its day. In Studies in a Mosque, Stanley Lane-Poole writes:

For nearly eight centuries under her Muslim rulers Spain set to all Europe a shining example of a civilized and enlightened state. Art, literature and science prospered as they then prospered nowhere else in Europe. Students flocked from France and Germany and England to drink from the fountains of learning which flowed only in the cities of the Moors. The surgeons and doctors of Andalusia were in the vanguard of science; women were encouraged to devote themselves to serious study, and a lady doctor was not unknown among the people of Cordova. Mathematics, astronomy and botany, history, philosophy and jurisprudence, were to be mastered in Spain and in Spain alone.

FYI......Very Interesting Read............Take Care

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:49
Carl (On Another) ID#341189:
The crucial issue to me is not whether Another is correct or not but whether he is being disingenuous or ingenuous. If he were a fraud, he would not make a time limited price prediction as he has today. Although I must say Tolerant pointed out a should in his prediction, rather than will. Still it is a prediction and puts his credibility on the line in a way that someone speaking with conviction rather than deviousness would do.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:38
Myrmidon (one more thing about ANOTHER) ID#345176:


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:31
Myrmidon (@ CJS, re:13:22 , on ANOTHER) ID#345176:

CJS, thanks for explaining. You are correct. Still though, ANOTHER is old or ill and he is American.

Personally, I hope ANOTHER is young and knowledgeable, and stays in this forum for a long time to enlighten us with his intelligent posts. His thoughts have depth and this matters to me. Unfortunately, some think that they are nonsense, but on the other hand, everyone is entitled to his opinion.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:16
TYoung (Donald_A) ID#317193:
At least the IMF has Norway and the Swiss covered.Thank God for the IMF. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:15
Ted (@ The big yawn'.......................versus 'The Big easy') ID#330175:
April Gold down .20 @ 2-9-5

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:10
OLD GOLD () ID#238295:
Long bond yield back under 6% as oil continues to plunge. Oil and gold have both been smashed over the past year, but oil stocks have done very well nonetheless. Now if gold stocks would only shrug depressed commodity price as oil stocks have.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:08

REF: Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:22
CJS ( Cats out of Bags )

You made reference to an interesting essay submitted to the Aguila de Oro ( :- ) ) last October, entitled appropriately, The Covert Gold Cost of Oil

Did anyone catch the significance of the article's color combination - as specifically requested by the author, Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:07
Donald__A (IMF tells Norway how to run its country) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:02
Ted (A 'true story') ID#330175:
Copyright © 1998 Ted/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
go Gold*


A little old lady went into the Bank of Canada one day,carrying
a bag of money. She insisted that she must speak with the president of
the bank to open a savings account because, It's a lot of money!
After much hemming and hawing, the bank staff finally ushered her into
the president's office ( the customer is always right! ) . The bank
president then asked her how much she would like to deposit. She
replied, $165,000! and dumped the cash out of her bag onto his desk.
The president was of course curious as to how she came by all this
cash, so he asked her, Ma'am, I'm surprised you're carrying so much
cash around. Where did you get this money? The old lady replied, I
make bets. The president then asked, Bets? What kind of bets? The
old woman said, Well, for example, I'll bet you $25,000 that your
balls are square. Ha! laughed the president, That's a stupid bet.
You can never win that kind of bet! The old lady challenged, So,
would you like to take my bet? Sure, said the president, I'll bet
$25,000 that my balls are not square!The little old lady then said,
Okay, but since there is a lot of money involved, may I bring my
lawyer with me tomorrow at 10:00 am as a witness?
Sure! replied the confident president.

That night, the president got very nervous about the bet and
spent a long time in front of a mirror checking his balls, turning from side to
side, again and again. He thoroughly checked them out until he was sure that
there was absolutely no way his balls were square and that he would win the bet.

The next morning, at precisely 10:00 am, the little old lady
appeared with her lawyer at the president's office. She introduced the
lawyer to the president and repeated the bet: $25,000 says the
president's balls are square!

The president agreed with the bet again and the old lady asked
him to drop his pants so they could all see. The president complied.
The little old lady wanted to know if she could feel them.

Well, Okay, said the president, $25,000 is a lot of money, so
I guess you should be absolutely sure. Just then, he noticed that the
lawyer was quietly banging his head against the wall.
The president asked the old lady, What the hell's the matter
with your lawyer?

She replied, Nothing, except I bet him $100,000 that at 10:00
am today, I'd have The Bank of Canada's president's balls in my hand.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 14:02
OLD GOLD (Liquidity-driven markets) ID#238295:
As DA has accurately pointed out, this most assuredly is a liquidity-driven stock market. Of course the last major liquidity-driven market was in 1987.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:54
CJS (tolerant1@13:34) ID#328159:
Agreed. I would suggest that a person of sense should:
Study the prognostications of others
Consider both sides of the coin
Do one's own research
Trust noone
Think: What have they to gain from putting that viewpoint?
Risk only what one can afford to lose
Take responsibility for one's own actions

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:44
OLD GOLD (financial euphoria) ID#238295:
Here's why the markets continue to boom. Not exactly the DA scenario.

players believe interest rates are likely to decline over the next 12
months, as low inflation and economic expansion continue for several
years, according to a survey conducted by The Bond Market
Association. [Bond Buyer, 322 words]

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:40
TYoung (tolerant1@13:34) ID#17796:
GOOD post. Invest based on your own thoughts, you have to live with the consequences. Do not trust the words of one you know not. Gold is cheap now. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:34
tolerant1 (cjs, and so, what's your point,) ID#31868:
Copyright © 1998 tolerant1/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
many here have ventured forth their prognostications and have been right on the money. Simply because the Another entity appears to have a grasp of things with a telescope rather than a microscope, and so it seems to be a more grand and larger scale, so what.

I make no purchase and have never made a purchase based on anything but my study and gut feel. For the past year and a half I have been screaming at people to buy physical on a concerted basis. My whole life I have told people to accumulate things, coins, bullion - whatever - as a young child I was taught things have value, paper - has no value unless someone else is willing to live up to the terms, things don't talk, they trade or spend, simple as that.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:33
OLD GOLD (Another) ID#238295:
I too find it hard to believe that gold will hit $320+ in 5-10 days. But gold stocks are acting very well and bullion has now regained all its morning loss. I do think a rally is coming, but its strength and staying power is anybody's guess.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:22
CJS (Cats out of Bags) ID#328159:
@Myrmidon ( @ tolerant1 ) Mar 09 1998 12:55

Your surmise about Another leaving his job may or may not be true,
but as for the cat being out of the bag at the beginning of 97
you should recall that:

The Financial Times of London reported on Thursday January 30th, 1997,
that the LBMA cleared 30 million troy ounces, or 930 tonnes, of gold
every working day.

See: THE GRAND LBMA EXPOSÉ: A Collective-Mind Analysis

Also worth a read:
The Covert Gold Cost of Oil

( To access these URLs, cut and paste them to your browser, deleting any embedded spaces ) .

To look backward for a while is to refresh the eye, to restore it, and
to render it the more fit for its prime function of looking forward.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:18
TYoung (mapleman-WARNING) ID#317193:
Futures contracts are not for the uninitiated. Hope you have cash to back up any violent swings in price. Stops can get blown through. Any competant commodity broker will help and explain the process and risks. If you have a regular broker ask to have their commodity broker talk to you. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:15
Frustrated (Northern Orion announcement...) ID#298259:
54% owned by MAENF..

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:12
pyramid (S&P500 Price-to-Earnings Ratio of 26+ !!!) ID#217268:
I find it ironical that the movie TITANIC is the #1 hit at the box office concurrent with the S&P500 and DJIA at current levels.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:11
mapleman (FUTURES ADVICE) ID#348127:

Who shoud I contact if I wanted to buy a futures contract. I dont want to get taken for a ride on commission fees. there a consensus on who does a good job at for a fair price?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 13:05
Prometheus (@LGB and T1) ID#210235:
Thank you thank you thank you for your lucid posts this morning. Wish I could stay and play.

Golden Prophet, you picked a winner in trading today at only 48 times book value.

The Titanic movie remains at the top of the charts, no accident. The people I've been talking to totally don't get it at a conscious, analytical level, but when, 10 years from now, they tell their kids the story, they'll say they knew all this hubris about technology and the ship that couldn't sink with AG at the helm was just that.

Keep building those golden lifeboats.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:55
Myrmidon (@ tolerant1) ID#345176:

I spend time reading ANOTHER's posts because I find that ANOTHER is not Nostradamus, but a very informed individual who once had a very responsible job and knows too much.

He must have left his job or an organization in the start of 1997, may be for health reasons.

My thoughts are made free for all to read now because, as of the beginning of 97 the cat is out of the bag - ANOTHER. Oct 25 1997, 17:16.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:54
TYoung (tolerant1) ID#317193:
I am a man of simple thought and walk upright most of the time-well not after to much beer. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:53
tolerant1 (SilverBaron) ID#31868:
And I thank you.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:52
snowbird (Why, when we have great contributors like APH, DA, RJ, LGB, VRONSKY, GLENN, BUCKLER) ID#220325:
Copyright © 1998 snowbird/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
do we concentrate on Another whose prognostications sound like they come from a deep pit? Big Trader sounded suspiciousy like Another, speaking in riddles and obfuscation. I would suggest that if you are going to make investment decisions where you a going to spend your hard earned money that you stick to the list above, those who have a proven track record that you can verify. Too many people were led down the garden path following the advice of Big Trader much to their sorrow. If Another is genuine let's wait and see how accurate he is in the meantime LETS NOT WASTE TIME SPECULATING WHEN WE HAVE THE TOP ADVISORS IN OUR RANKS, MAKE USE OF THEM WHILE THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO GIVE FREELY OF THEIR TIME. All of the ( subject ) listed persons have disclosed their identity and are willing to stand by what they say rightly or wrongly.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:51
tolerant1 (Hey Yo, analytics, teach me Anotherish) ID#31868:
A large purchase, now, is sending another message, bring gold back into $320 to $360 US$ range. We should see this in five to ten days.

What part of the last sentence above does not precisely indicate that something will occur in five to ten days. Either way, a large purchase or a move in the price of gold.


first in my family to walk upright

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:50
Preacher (LGB & ANOTHER) ID#225273:


Glad you pointed that out. I hadn't noticed before, but I will surely go back and check it out.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:50
Silverbaron (tolerant1 @ Islamic Mint) ID#289357:

The email address is

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:47
tolerant1 (SilverBaron) ID#31868:
Whats that email address, post it so we all can send a note inviting them to lurk, post, talk to us.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:46
TYoung (mozel) ID#317193:
You are quite correct. You and I can, with an analytical and legal background, most certainly assert that this last post was no prediction. However, a reading of this post by one of simple thoughts leaves only one meaning-a prediction. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:45
Silverbaron (An interesting viewpoint - more from the Islamic Mint -) ID#289357:
Copyright © 1998 Silverbaron/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The following is an email received today from the Islamic Mint:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your appreciative support. I would love to participate

in your discussion group.

Our cause is directed towards establishing the gold coin

as a common medium of exchange. We believe that the success of the

coin is the success of society. Therefore the issue is to bring

it as close as we can to the everydayness of our people. That means

recreating that new/old institutions and instruments that made in the

past the use of the coin be natural. The key word is trading. If we

combine natural money and trading we have an atomic bomb.

It is important to distinguish between trading and monopolistic

distribution. What the World Trading Organisation calls trading

is monopolistic distribution. Trading is something else. Trading

cannot exist without a market place. Today we have supermarkets

and trade is now distribution. In Islam ( and you can trust me that

fundamentalism is not Islam but something alien ) trading, its

institutions, its means and its contracts are defined with precise

details, like a recipy book, based on what Allah says in Quran:

Allah has permitted trade and forbidden usury.

Recreating the general conditions of trading in which the gold coin

existed in the past is a necessary part of facilitating its

popular re-introduction. This is of the nature of reconstructing

society. Also the spiritual dimension offers a superior overture

on this issue.

We have a duty and a responsibility. The good news is that the battle

against the fiat money we have already won. Fiat money betrays

itself. If we had all the resources in the world, we could not do

a better propaganda against paper money than what already it

does by its own existance. Just like you do not need to say how

horrible is an earthquake. Usury, without which paper money would

not exist, is a self-indulging existential disaster.

We, the good of the story, have to simply let it happen. Our role

is not become the obstacle. Often intellectuals bring the matter to

such specialist hights that people, the ultimate aim

of the coins, are lost or forgotten. We should free the gold coins

from us, the true and committed defenders of gold. It is important

that we surrender the matter to where it belongs, the

people's pockets. This is where understanding the dinamics of

society, trading and wealth becomes the difference between

helplessness or success.


Umar Vadillo

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:44
tolerant1 (Now that Nostradanother has spoken, back at the) ID#31868:
speculative map. I am not asking, I am telling you folks to go and take a peek at TAN RANGE TNX in Canada once again. This stock is cheap, cheap, cheap. Go and read my friends. Gobble some up at these prices and just forget you own it.

The preceeding has been a public service message from Cuervo Central.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:42
Myrmidon (ANOTHER is old or dieing!) ID#345176:

During your time a straight forward investment in bullion only will far surpass any other asset you could hold

From ANOTHER's post of Oct 25 1997, 10:24

Notice the words YOUR time. He must be 70+ or dieing soon from an illness.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:40

The only suckers I see out there are those who keep buying equities at PE's of 23+! Good example is NO earnings yet trading at another new high at 83 1/2 +6 3/4!!! LUNACY!!!!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:40
BillD (StrongMan and Young...That Big Trader) ID#258427:
thing did have Kitco going for quite some time, but came to an abrupt end when he/she/it finally made a prediction that was way off. So not ANOTHER has spoken....let's see if his prediction has any credibility. Wouldn't it be sweet if he were for-real.

Astute observation Myrmidon...out Military......

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:36
LGB (Read Backwards) ID#269409:
Has anyone else noticed that when ANOTHER's messages are read backwards, removing all but every 23rd letter, it spells Illuminati rules over and over again?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:34
mozel (@JohnD BBL) ID#153102:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:33
StrongMan (@TYoung) ID#287338:
Do you remember the same expectation from Big Trader that got everybody excited about a year ago. Gold did tank and there was a post from Big Trader that read SUCKERS!

Be warned everybody. ITS HAPPENED BEFORE.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:28
chevy (Market Timming ) ID#287358:
Copyright © 1998 chevy/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Timming markets envolves analyzing day to day activate. On any given day a prediction can fail due to different news events. So I won't put any faith in market preditions. I must admit that the xau has been looking really strong over the last five days and has held up despite silvers weakness so far. The highest figure I have heared that central banks have lent out is about 8000 tons of gold. The total central bank reserves of the G-7 nations amount to only 16,000. I seriously doubt that the central banks are going lend out all of there reserves. An analyist in London warned about this awhile back. Some may remember that gold started to move up after his coments. Know one really knows exactly when the volcano will blow but I want to in position when it does..

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:28
LGB (@ Fawning desperation......ANOTHER (yawn) and Gold) ID#269409:
Copyright © 1998 LGB/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Well, amid the side splitting guffaws of laughter, I tried ( and succeeded ) in maintaining my silence all weekend as Kitcoites fell all over themselves fawning in despration at the feet of the ANOTHER dude.

Ahhh how nice if a magic Guru with that special insider mystery knowledge from beyond our shores could just tell us what to do eh? No wonder people take arsenic and fly off to the Comet Hale Bopp with Cult leaders and such...

Anyway, we NOW finally have an actual PREDICTION of where Gold will go in the next few days, so finally we have something with which to test credibility of the ANOTHER.... My money's on the side that says..... he'll go the way of Steve Puetz.

Gold's a good buy at these levels, I've stated myself that it's seen it's bottom and this is a fine time to aquire a small position, but there's no way it's going abobe $320 in the next 10 days. Ntohing in the world economy calls for such a move, nothing in the meatls market calls for such a move, and if anything, ANOTHER's precious oil/Gold link is forecasting a downside for Gold, not the opposite.

Let's not forget that it was the middle East oil crises in the late 70's, that helped fuel high inflation, economic instability, and higher Gold prices in 1980.....

ANOTHER is about to be exposed...but not in the way everyone would hope....

( The perpetual skeptic....and GoldBug's friend...LGB )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:22
mozel (@Tyoung) ID#153102:
There was no promise of gold to $320; there was a statement that a message is being sent to the CB by a purchase. The CB's control gold's price. Will they let it rise ? Can they manage its rise ? No poster has pretended to know the answer to those questions.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:21
Myrmidon (ANOTHER must be an AMERICAN) ID#345176:

ANOTHER's Oct 19, 1997 ** 13:41** post says:

Do the oil states think our military is there to ptotect them or protect oil?

The word our gives us the first hint that he is American.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:19
SDRer__A (Mozel--this may be of interest ...) ID#28594:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
the Reserve Bank will, together with the introduction of the South African Multiple Option Settlement System ( SAMOS system ) on 9 March 1998, also introduce more flexible accommodation procedures for banking institutions. From this date banks will be offered the opportunity to tender on a daily basis for a fixed amount of central bank funds through repurchase transactions, and accordingly be given more scope to manage their liquidity positions effectively. The information made available by the Reserve Bank at the daily tender, will signal the policy intentions of the central bank to the market in a more transparent way.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 12:14
TYoung (ANOTHER) ID#317193:
If gold tanks in 5 to 10 days I expect to see a post from ANOTHER that reads simply-SUCKERS. However if I get the chance to buy gold at 275 or below I'll pull more of my reserve out and BUY!! Gold under US$300 is a steal in 1998 dollars. Hell, I may do so now. I'll worry about it's value in 15 to 20 years and have Uncle Sam subsidize my contract losses next April 15th. Gold is a bargain now. Tom

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:55
Carl (silver and oil) ID#341189:
Frustrated: You're welcome. Can anybody cook up a plot of oil and silver prices going back to say, 1900? If my memory serves me, they traded for many years around the same price. That is, a barrel of oil for an ounce of silver. Will they meet again?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:54

JTF has got it right. $10-$12 oil or lower will decimate Mexico and Latin America . The DEFLATIONARY WAVE will cause another banking and currency crisis in MExico, Brazil and Argentina that will tsrain the IMF and the Fed to the breaking point! Then we'll see dramatically weaker earnings for US companies and the collapse in equity prices we're all waiting for!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:51
JTF (Gold sales/purchases: Thinking like a Central Bank -- European?) ID#57232:
All: Lets assume that the European Central banks want to buy gold with their excess ( ? ) cash. Do they do it now with Indonesia on the brink, Japan in uncertain waters, and China with devaluation looming? No -- they either buy only a little gold, or they wait! Why buy now when gold might get even cheaper?

Unless some big player is being forced to buy gold, I think the gold bullion situation is neutral, at best. Some big players may want to keep gold price down longer, so that they can buy the whole gold mine at $10/oz!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:49
Myrmidon (@ JTF on ANOTHER) ID#345176:

Only a finance minister, or CB insider could really know for sure. Some ready to hit-the-media news is all it takes. Today I printed all his posts to read the very carefully. I will build a profile based on his statements, I hope.

He can't be a CEO of a gold mine unless he is P. Munk. Lets watch for major knews and this may identify the ANOTHER's relationship to the news source. But if he is wrong, he is also a dead duck.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:44
Frustrated (@Carl) ID#336393:
Thanks for the info...don't have an Office Depot here in FL, but will be on the lookout for the Compaq deal. A new computer is a top priority after this gold market turns up. Still running a 486.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:39
JTF (Could Kitco lurkers trigger a gold rally?) ID#57232:
Myrmidon: I know the Kitco regulars couldn't tweak the gold market, but ANOTHER may have been sending a message to the lurkers. If the gold market is ready to rally, it may not take much. But -- I agree with you -- I am skeptical.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:36
John Disney__A (Now that we have it, what do we do with it ) ID#24135:
For Mozel
Ok the SARB is a company on the JSE that is fairly widely
held by financial institutions. Now what conclusions do we
draw from that
Who owns the US Federal Reserve .. same kind of thing

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:35
JTF (The Oil situation is bearish -- unless war breaks out.) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Donald, all: What would you do if you were the biggest member of the Oil producers industry, and the little guys refused to cut production, because of fears that Oil prices would drop more? The answer is simple -- increase Oil production, and wipe out the little guys. Once the competition is gone, then you can raise Oil prices again without competition.

I hope I am wrong about this -- because Venzuela and Mexico could get hard - hit, as well as a few other Oil producers. This could trigger a South American deflationary collapse.

My guess is the Saudi Arabia is well-enough off to maintain high levels of Oil production to knock out the competition. Interesting times we live in.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:35
Rob (lease rates) ID#356204:
Gold lease rates seem to be very volitile both up and down. There seems to be quite a battle going on.

It's like watching two dogs fighting under a rug.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:32
BillD (JTF and Donald ....Excellent discussion of the) ID#258427:
inflation -vs - deflation cross-currents...Helpful to me and probably a lot of others ...I thank you...

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:29
Myrmidon (Just some thoughts about ANOTHER) ID#345176:
Copyright © 1998 Myrmidon/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Why would ANOTHER risk his credibility by forecasting gold above $320 in 5 to 10 days? He has such a good following here at Kitco without specific short term gold price predictions, which he may lose together with his reputation. If he is wrong, he will go down like Puetz - at least on this forum.

Does ANOTHER think that Kitcoites can move the price of Au up by rushing to buy in his recommendation? I doubt he can be so naive. Then the question remains why? BUT, if he is correct of knowing of some major announcement coming up, then he must also be a man of influence. I can't wait to see if he is right. My gut feeling is that he is wrong.

Haggis, irrelavent from where ANOTHER posts, although Bart knows where his server is located.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:24
John Disney__A (Just because they're double crossers doesnt mean they're smart) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
For Fred ..
Ok if you say so .. more gold backing than expected.
That means .. if the euro comes to pass .. then gold
goes up. On the other hand .. if the euro is dumped
due to dead european economies.. All CB in disarray,
elections will be lost, money will be printed in panic,
and gold goes up .. I can live with that.

For Rhody ..
Yes it is strange that Mulrooney and Bush work for
Barrick. I think it is strange that ANYBODY hires
Mulrooney for anything at all. But after reading the
Forbes account that some kind soul posted, I would
NOT discount stupidity. Maybe try stupidity AND
duplicity. People assume conspiracies derive from
intelligence. I dont think so.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:22
JTF (Deflation vs Inflation in US: Inflation first, then deflation.) ID#57232:
Copyright © 1998 JTF/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
BillD: Donald beat me to the punch. AG is inflating the US dollar as fast as he can to fill the deflationary hole created by the collapsing credit wave coming out of SEAsia. Japan increased their money supply by 10% in a few months, with little effect on the value of the Japanese Yen. Right now, it is difficult to determine how much inflation we will get in the US with such dramatic deflationary phenomena world-wide.

My intuitive guess is that we will have inflation in the US before we have deflation, given the strength of the US markets and economy, and 'flight to safety' from other parts of the world.

The real threat is deflation -- worldwide. We seem to be repeating a scenario similar to that of the 20's and 30's when deflation hit other countries first, and the US last. The US dollar was inflated starting around 1925 or so, on the request of those desperate European bankers who were upset about losing all their gold to the US, as I recall. Eventually the US market bubble collapsed, and deflation hit the US -- years after deflation hit Europe and much of the rest of the world. One thing we are especially bad at on Kitco is assuming that the credit crunch will happen all at once -- world wide. It is likely that it will not -- thank God! I'm hoping that by the time the US is hit, SEAsia will be on the road of recovery. Of course, they may not have much trade with US and Europe by that time ---.

If you are the super conservative type -- I would put all your assets in to a bullet-proof location -- because after the credit collapse, gold will shine! Right now the gold investing cross currents are confusing, and choppy. First we have bullish news, then we have bearish news for gold with each currency collapse. But -- we are reaching a gold bottom, I think ( and hope ) -- and gold should rise for a time before the next big deflationary crisis.

By the way, after the US markets weather the current lousy earnings reports on computer-stocks, they will have to weather another storm in Banking losses -- all of those derivatives trades that went sour! If the turmoil is spread out -- gold and gold stocks will do well. If the equity markets get hit with another 1987-type blast, I'm not so sure. I think turmoil and uncertainty are the rule.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:18
Donald__A (Deflation fears rising in Japan) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:17
SDRer__A () ID#28594:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
All--The one constant theme--and this is a visceral assessment, not a probable/rational--in the last weeks, has been an ever increasing State-of-Waiting...not for the Kitco Board, I hasten to add, but rather that part of the world we are so closely monitoring, the East--Middle, Far, SouthEast...

There is a state of suspended animation...Indonesia ( will/will not ) , Japan ( can/can not ) , OPEC ( may/may not ) ...

I believe it was Kiwi who posted several nights ago, re: Islamic banks going to Indonesia...the IDB has a main office in Kuala Lampor ( sp--I’ve got to rush out for a mtg ) ...

I think it not inconceivable that all the “East” might find a patch of bedrock-based common-ground on which to stand, with regards to the currency issue...and ironing out final details is the “Why” of the “Waiting” ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:17
Carl (Frustrated) ID#341189:
No, on the Compaq question. At Office Depot. Be careful though, they tried to bundle a Magnivox monitor wiht it which is not compatible with the Compaq driver. They try to tell you there is a fix for this, but Compaq says no. Demand a Compaq monitor.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:12
Donald__A (Saudi's will not let Venezuela take their customers. Lower oil prices ahead.) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:07
themissinglink (Dips) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 themissinglink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I find it extremely interesting that the DOW is not reacting anymore to negative earnings reports. The pundits have so successfully driven home the point that every drop is a buying opportunity that investors fear selling at all.

Every drop has brought on bargain buyers to drive the price right back up. The new paradigm is complete. It is the paradigm of self fulfilling prophesy of value.

10 Buy stocks because they are valuable
20 Stocks are valuable because we say they are
30 Stocks go up because you bought them
40 goto 10

That is all you need to know. Invest for your future because the government will not be there for you. Trust us. Be happy.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 11:05
D.A. (a.few.comments) ID#7568:
Copyright © 1998 D.A./Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

The silver market is on a knife edge of uncertainty. There are a few funds with combined long positions of somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 million ounces that are underwater. There are players in the market that are attempting to the run these guys out by hitting stops. Last night's action on the Access market was predictable in its intent but strange in its outcome. A few times last night one of the bears ( rumored to be a certain gentleman from PEI ) swept down the market in an effort to get a 'print' that would trigger an avalanche of sell stops. As of the moment the bears have been unsuccessful. The sentiment last night was very poor, and I expected to wake up this morning and find a real bloodletting. The fact that it has not happened does not mean that it won't, but the first efforts at plays usually have the best chance of succeeding. My guess is that if we don't get a severe breakdown within the next couple of days the market is going to make another run to the upside.

The one feature of the gold market that remains anomalous in the context of the current lackluster trading, is the lease rate. The question remains as to why central banks, with an 'endless' supply of gold are not leasing metal into the market with one month rates of around 3.5%. The longer this feature remains in place the more significant it becomes. If central banks are not taking advantage of this opportunity perhaps it is due to one of two things. They may be unwilling to loan out any more gold because they have some reason to fear the credit quality of the potential borrowers or they may be unwilling to loan more gold because the cupboards are nearly bare.

That the stock market continues to rise in this environment should not be that great a mystery. As long as the monetary aggregates continue to grow at a pace well above nominal GDP, the excess money is going to bid up the prices of all sorts of assets irrespective of any 'rational' measure of value. While it is just a small tangential market, the prices for fine art and antiques at auction continue to vault to extraordinary heights. Recent price history of an artist's work have almost become irrelavent as new records are being set daily, often by extreme factors.

The party will not end until there is pressure in the bond market. This will only come about when prices are rising rapidly enough so that bond investors feel they can do better elsewhere and demand higher rates. The recent reversals across the board in the base metals markets may be significant in this regard. In 1993/4 the bond market did not really start diving until 3-6 months after the metals turned. Given the current stage of the economic cycle I would expect the reaction to be much faster this time around. If the base metals bottomed three weeks ago and the bonds topped in concert, the next month or two could see severe pressure in the bond market.

Indonesia's adoption of a currency board should occur in the next few days. It looks like there is no turning back for either Suharto or the IMF. The IMF's worst fear is that is will succeed. In any event, the European and Japanese banks which are on the hook for Indonesia corporate loans are going to have to recognize their non-performing loans.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:54
SDRer__A (Haggis...Yes, the 'Silk Road' is) ID#28594:
a thread, IMHO! Do you happen to remember the title of the

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:54
James (The Euro) ID#252150:
Gold goes the opposite of the currency in power--Eliot Janeway.
I don't know how anyone can expect the $U.S. to weaken if the Euro is derailed.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:42
THE GOLDEN PROPHET ($10-$12 Oil) ID#372262:

OIL NOW at $14.49!!! AND PLUNGING!!! $10 -$12 oil now a distinct possibility!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:41
hamlet (@Aurator @Another Decision) ID#33650:
Copyright © 1998 hamlet/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Thanx aurator for your input
Thanx Another for easing us poor kitcoites. If you're right, thats fine if not that the way it will go anyhow
BTW: I interprete your big buying order not as an immediate installation of the 320-360 range but only as an indication that this will be the object.
So far I understood the Illuminati concept as to devastate currencies to gain OWG. But this power must be achieved by having the majority buying power. Or else this one world government will be as lousy and fallible as present ones. So lowering the gold price is only a vehicle to faster Illuminati grip to power of they at least buy what the Central banks sell or what the producers sell in physical gold. Is there any evidence that Bilderberger or CFR or Trilateral members are constantly and massively massively buying bullion or bars ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:39
Haggis__A (Another may well be based in London.........) ID#398105:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:37
Haggis__A (SDRer__A (Haggis, re: ) ID#398105:
Copyright © 1998 Haggis__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

You may have a point.

A read a book some ten years ago concerned with South Africa - London - Hong Kong - China, and the trade off of GOLD for Opium/Heroin. this basic trade was established by the Brits YEARS ago, and it is likely that the connection continued until last July, when the Chinese took over Hong Kong.

It is remarkable that ALL the financial troubles started then.

So, over the years the Chinese have traded for gold, and they have a long history of gold mining - the West simply never saw that.

The connection, now-a-days, may well be .............


Gold.......South Africa and else where...........London

Opium/heroin..............China............Hong Kong...........London


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:33
Frustrated (@Carl) ID#336393:
Did you buy that Compaq via mail order?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:32
Savage (up or down or down then up.......) ID#280222:
Before gold surges there will be a sudden slamdown ( shakeout ) to eliminate some of the weaks and run the stops. ( APH predicts a testing of the lows and I believe him ) THEN possibly, gold may scoot./////REALISTIC: re your 9:11...Buffet NEEDS NO other bulls.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:28
tsclaw (Japan) ID#318118:
The Japanese have been buying U.S. treasuries this morning. Go figure

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:26
OLD GOLD (thoughts) ID#238295:
All gold stock indexes now up despite 80 cent drop in POG. But remember Glenn's advice -- get real, get short. .

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:23
SDRer__A (Haggis, re: one country that will not play the fool) ID#28594:
Copyright © 1998 SDRer__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
That is the passage that caught my attention all those weeks ago...
and why I was astonished when digging revealed China's P.O.V.:
1. Who has quietly been collecting gold?
2. Who has been using bad dollars to buy good oil assets?
3. Who is NOT under the western yoke?
4. Who has spent time, talent and a proper amount of money in donations --Asean committees, etc.-- ( i.e., enough funds to show
concern and interest, but not enough to be 'unseemingly' )
5. Who created, in a People's Republic of China Futures Trading Company and selected top drawer people to run it?
6. Who has repeatedly said, and will stand behind their words, they would NOT begger-their-neighbors by devaluing their currency? [HongKong $ may have some rough moments ahead, but that will be an object lesson to the
East, about the West...

Some very interesting strands here...{:- )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:20
Donald__A (Repost of Saudi oil news; Could be related to the thoughts of Another) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:20
Haggis__A (G'Nite..........) ID#398105:

how do the south african police catch a crocodile?

- catch a lizard and beat it until it confesses.

For the times they are a changing.............

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:17
OLD GOLD (the action) ID#238295:
Stocks holding well tody in view of Compaq and dell earnings problems. Still looks like the final blowoff to me. Dow 9000 quite possible in a few weeks. Gold stocks also holding nicely despite weaker POG.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:14
Donald__A (@Haggis) ID#26793:
Anything goes in a manic market. The financial world crumbles and the Dow is at a new high as I type.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:11
Donald__A (There goes the neighborhood!. Indonesia problems hurting Malaysia) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:10
Haggis__A (Lurker 777............what connection if any................) ID#398105:


Did the BIS buy bulk gold in November ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:07
Haggis__A (Donald..what was that OLD Frank Sinatra song.........Anything Goes !) ID#398105:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:05
Lurker 777 (Another indicator.) ID#317247:
Copyright © 1998 Lurker 777/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Anothers post: Hear me now, “if gold tries to go lower than US$ $280 the BIS will buy it OUTRIGHT in the OPEN for all to see”! They must! They will! I know.
Another has predicted without any doubt that Gold will not close lower than $280. and the bottom is in. HE WAS CORRECT!

Anothers post: A large purchase, now, is sending another message, “bring gold back into $320 to $360 US$ range. We should see this in five to ten days.

If Another is correct about gold spiking up to $320-$360 by the 18th of March we owe him our respect and thanks for contributing to our Forum at Kitco. I don't care who Another is, all I care about is IF HE IS RIGHT!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:05
Donald__A (Japan seen backing off promises of Indonesian assistance) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:04
Haggis__A (Every Kitcoite should have a hobby....................) ID#398105:

Find out who YOU really are.............

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 10:01
Donald__A (BIS says banks took hits trading derivatives for their own accounts. Lax reporting and supervision) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:59
sharefin ( ID#284255:
Copyright © 1998 sharefin/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Gold market sentiment starting to look up again
By Stephen Wyatt, Washington

The $300 mark is proving a hefty resistance area for the gold market. Rallies into this area are persistently sold by gold producers, funds and the odd central bank.

Even so, the bears are no longer looking for big price falls from these levels. And while the gold bugs remain dormant, still hibernating after years of hyperactivity, sentiment in the gold market is far better than it has been for the past two years.

This mirrors the general sentiment in commodity markets. They have been hit so hard, primarily by Asia's economic slowdown, that many dealers and analysts suggest that the downside is now limited.

The gold price, for example, has already fallen 30 per cent since January 1996. And because of the extent of this fall, according to Dinsa Mehta, managing director, global commodities for Chase Manhattan, the gold market will find it hard to remain under $US295/oz. It is at marginal cost levels, he said, adding that there was a growing sentiment among gold producers to re-acquire exposure to the gold price.

This has been demonstrated by significant buying back of forward sales positions by producers, especially North American ones.

Without a forward sales position they certainly are re-acquiring exposure to the gold price -- exposure to moves both up and down in the gold market.

However, these producers remain cautious. Few are outright bulls. While they think the gold market has not much further to fall, they are still not prepared to completely open themselves to downside risk. In a way, this encapsulates the current spirit of the gold market in particular, and commodity markets in general.

That's why some gold producers are not just liquidating forward sales positions, but replacing these forward sales with gold put options. Gold put options provide insurance to miners against gold price falls, but at the same time, if the gold price rallies gold producers can participate in this rally.

North American producer TVX, for example, recently bought back 2 million oz it had previously sold forward. But it also bought 1 million oz of gold put options.

But don't get too excited about a wholesale buyback program that can push the market considerably higher. The producer buybacks were not a general trend, said Andy Smith, precious metals analyst with UBS in London. Gold producers remember late 1995 when the gold price broke $US400/oz on the back of a spate of producer buybacks, he said.

From $US415/oz, the gold market fell over the next two years to 18-year lows in January this year. For hedge-lifting gold producers, like Canada's Barrick Gold, this was an expensive punt.

For many other producers, the hedge lifters' misfortune created the opportunity to establish forward sold positions -- lease rates eased, the contango widened and the spot price rallied: a gold sellers' dream.

In fact, it was concerted gold producer selling that was a primary factor forcing prices steadily lower over the next two years.

Gold producers will not forget this event. And today, more than ever before, gold producers are aware of the threat of central bank selling of their massive gold stocks. Weighing on the market was central bank liquidation of gold stocks. This also discourages aggressive hedge lifting.

Central bank uncertainty is still there. The gold industry is now trying to pin down central banks and pull them into the fold in an effort to reduce uncertainty, to make risk calculable. But don't hold your breath, said Andy Smith.

Further restraining gold producers from aggressively lifting forward gold sales positions are the commercial banks. No bank these days is prepared to lend to gold producers in the hope that the gold price will rise. The bank might as well buy gold futures.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:53
Haggis__A (I wonder.................) ID#398105:
Copyright © 1998 Haggis__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

There is one oil state that no one will play for a fool. The CBs will
sell all of their gold or the nations will nationalize all mines and
operate them at a loss. One way or another, most of the paper gold
market will be honored. Why? Because oil will bid for gold if they do
not! We are not talking about an oil embargo or rising oil prices.
Indeed, oil will become very cheap for those that can supply physical
gold. This deal will not require the agreement of all oil states. Only
one can start this, the others will gladly follow.

SO.........given that Saudi Arabia corner the oil market, have they via London and with Rothschild, cornered the gold derivatives market in order to leap frog the physical gold market. Who owes who.......Who dares....

A simple scenario of choice ?! Oil/Gold = Gold/Oil, mutual interests.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:53
Donald__A (@BillD) ID#26793:
The printing of money is only one part, a minor part of US inflation. Credit creation is the major factor. Credit is being destroyed at a greater rate than money is printed. This results in deflation.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:48
WhisperingLow (Major mines to support Gold Prices) ID#234406:
Copyright © 1998 WhisperingLow/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
There is an interesting article in Barrons this week which should be discussed. I haven't seen any comment at Kitco this morning.

Major mine group has been discussing the possibility of buying any offloading of gold by CB with the purpose of stabilizing prices. They would then proceed to move this gold into the market in a more orderly manner. There seems to be some concern about American companies involved in such action as they might be charged with price fixing.

Seems like a good idea to me.
CB sales seem to have a depressing effect on gold.
The purchase of these sales by a mining group could neutralize the depressing of prices for the good of all.


Mines are always free to control the delivery of their product in order to get the best price. For two examples: they can simply leave it in the ground or they can select to mine rich veins or weak veins, so I don't see a problem with their being allowed to buy, store or sell as they see fit.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:43
OLD GOLD (thoughts) ID#238295:
Another: Took a lot of guts to project $320+ in 5-10 days. I'll be mighty happy if we can break above $300 with conviction.. The relatively better action of the gold stocks and the very negative sentiment here at KITCO does suggest a rally in POG.

Gaston; Agree that we are not on the verge of a stock market crash. But it may not be as far away as you imply.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:40
DJ (Channels) ID#215208:
Copyright © 1998 DJ/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
The time has come, the walrus said, to speak of cabbages and kings.

Will we be kings, or cabbages?

As I suspected, gold and platinum continued moving in the ever-tightening pennant bounded above by the top of the long-term, downward-trending channels, and below by the bottom of the short-term upward-trending channel.

Time has run out! Gold must break out of one of these channels this week.

Silver made a perverse move, seemingly breaking out of its long-term upward-tredning channel. It is intensely volitile, but it seems that its rallies lately are bounded by a steeply dropping line of resistance. Unless it breaks this, things look bad for silver, and this could take gold and platinum with it.

This is the week. Either the bear ends now, or, like the groundhog, gold will see its shadow, and drop back in its hole, for 6 more weeks of winter.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:35
Bully Beef (Find it yourself on response 8149 in gold price monitor ,SILICON INVESTOR) ID#259282:
I hope Another is right but I',m not running out to buy more gold.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:31
jims (Test) ID#254263:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:30
Bully Beef (derivatives in trillions...a crapshoot with the worlds money) ID#259282:
Read Shows my ingnorance of these contraptions. Oh well I'm a drawer of water and a hewer of wood. It's my wife in the 20 century. Sorry for taking up so much space.sorry again. Ithink this is really it.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:28
Copyright © 1998 vronsky/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

FOCUS-Bank of Japan investigates insider trading

TOKYO, March 9 ( Reuters ) - Japan's central bank governor Yasuo Matsushita said on Monday the bank was investigating reports its officials may have released inside information in exchange for lavish entertainment.

Matsushita told a parliamentary committee the inquiry covered about 600 management-level officials in the Bank of Japan ( BOJ ) .

What is transpiring in the Japanese financial arena would be funny, were it not so tragic and pathetic. The man said ABOUT 600 MANAGEMENT-LEVEL OFFICIALS IN THE BANK OF JAPAN ( BOJ ) . That most probably means EVERYONE from the president down to the janitor and doorman…. Heck, it might even include Matsushita himself.

This part really gets to me, …the bank was investigating reports its officials may have released inside information in exchange for lavish entertainment. Now, everyone may rest very assured this is going to be a very OBJECTIVE investigation, because the bank is going to investigate the bank! Yeah, SURE!

And these are the guys who are not going to dump about $300 Billion of U.S. Treasuries onto the market Yeah, SURE!

This may be the final straw that breaks the financial camel's back of Nippon confidence in their corrupt infested institutions, leading to mass liquidations of securities at all levels. Dumping greenbacked T-Bonds will drive interest rate skywards - resulting in a flight to the traditional safety of gold… the totally biased propaganda of Andy Smith and cronies notwithstanding.

There is little doubt in my mind that the recent support of the Nikkei is a manipulated maneuver of the slightly tainted BOJ. As the eye of public scrutiny focuses in on the BOJ, artificial market support will evaporate - followed by a flight to the traditional safety of gold…

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:28
Bully Beef (derivatives in trillions...a crapshoot with the worlds money) ID#259282:
Read Shows my ingnorance of these contraptions. Oh well I'm a drawer of water and a hewer of wood. It's my wife in the 20 century. Sorry for taking up so much space.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:26
Bully Beef (derivatives in trillions...a crapshoot with the worlds money) ID#259282:
Read 1.html Shows my ingnorance of these contraptions. Oh well I'm a drawer of water and a hewer of wood. It's my wife in the 20 century.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:25
BillD (JTF...I have read all the Deflation news...) ID#258427:
and I understand that logic ...BUT how can we have deflation in the US when the money supply is increasing here ( and elsewhere ) at such a rapid pace....looks like US inflation is the threat!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:22
JTF (I hope you are right) ID#57232:
ANOTHER, or Speaker for ANOTHER: The gold bullion/gold stock markets are reaching a key turning point in 7-14 days, given the duration of prior bear market rallies. I hope that your are right about a major turnaround -- triggered by the Central Banks. I am unfortunately somewhat skeptical, given that deflationary clouds are gathering again in Indonesia. I hope that you are right, and that I am wrong. These cross currents of inflation and deflation make navigation difficult for gold bugs.

Your information -- now much more specific and clear that before -- is appreciated.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:22
BillD (DBC shows silver (April) up) ID#258427:
three cents to 6.10...go silver, SSC and er...go gold

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:21
Bully Beef (derivatives in trillions...a crapshoot with the worlds money) ID#259282:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:20
Bully Beef (derivatives in trillions...a crapshoot with the worlds money) ID#259282:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:18
BillD ( ALL) ID#258427:
If Another's prediction of POG $320-$360 should materialize, what would be the best NA mining company ( non-hedged ) leverage play

Any thoughts ( pun intended ) !!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:11
Realistic (Silver news) ID#410194:
The very famous Mr. Buffet has now reportedly taken all of his Silver deliveries as of last Friday March 6th.

Was this the only force driving the market higher? After all, didn't the market top 48 hours after his Silver purchases were officially announced?

With First noticed day already passed, it looks like the market now has its hands forced and the longs seem to have a lack of strength. The last trading day in March is on the 27th with last delivery on the 31st.

Those not committed to the bull play are obviously being forced out for fear of being thrown into the physical action so near to their original entry point! The second largest volume pattern is around the 600 level.

Problem for the bulls now is that they are losing numbers which also lessens the possibility of other severe withdrawals ( although this is still to be watched very closely ) and the overall negative attitude again towards the metals in general doesn help either.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:10
Haggis__A (Realistic...............) ID#398105:

The waters are indeed very calm ?!


Can they stay that way ?

Swings and round-abouts................. What are you on now ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:08
Silverbaron (ANOTHER (Thoughts)) ID#289357:



Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:08
A.Goose (Bart quotes stuck again.) ID#256254:
Futures Contracts
Updated as of: Mar 09, 1998 @ 9:02 am ET

Sym. Company Name Last Change %Chg High Low Vol.
GC J8 Apr. Gold 2945 -7 -0.2 2953 2942 28.0K
SI K8 May Silver 6080 +10 +0.2 6095 5905 9.73K
HG K8 May High Grade Copper 8080 +40 +0.5 8090 8030 12.2K
PL J8 April Platinum 3800 +7 +0.2 3810 3795 1.46K
PA M8 June Palladium 23750 +250 +1.1 23800 23600 197

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:04
Poorboys (Gold Investing) ID#224149:
Ted –Good Morning ---Sure like to short that stock but who knows the game --Away to find carp in the Lake

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 09:02
Haggis__A (farfel have that certain way of expression............) ID#398105:

I am not only a GOLD BUG...........BUT.........a METAL BUG !!

Old habits die hard.

Perhaps the lack of response from GOLD BUGS does indeed show that people have lost their way.........BUT.........

Then again, there may be too many SEPTIC TANKS using this forum !!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:58
Realistic (Gold news) ID#410194:
Quiet action overnight around the world in the Gold market except for a continued and renewed bearish tone coming from the central banks! While as is usually the case at this time of the year, lots of action is picking up in other different markets accross the board, the longs seem to have lost interest again in the bullion given the almost certainty that any rally ( even the little ones ) will be taken advantage of for continued un-hoarding of Gold.

After the volume and open interst disintegrated when prices briefly spiked above 305 in late January, there has only been minor additions to open interest and the volume is terrible!

Not only the 300 level has now been put aside by the big players but it also appears that they expect another possible trip down in prices.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:49
Haggis__A (Nick@c) ID#398105:

Nick@C ( ---------Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter-------------- )

------------------Nickaurator Enterprises 1998---------------------
Subscriptions: $10 001 per annum

Man, can ya no wait until the GOLD price goes up ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:47
Ted (KRY article(second try)) ID#330175:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:45
Haggis__A (ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!).......................) ID#398105:

Aye, being a New Age Scotsman and an Exploration Geologist, I can only....... feel humble that I do not know many of the Short Carriers of GOLD.

I remember the days back in Zambia between 1975 and 1978 when I used to do geological field mapping in the bush, I always managed to avoid the Elephants.

I wonder if our Short Carriers will be able to do the same.... and avoid the crush ?

Aye, it makes you wonder ?!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:44
Ted (KRY article.............................) ID#330175:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:43
Poorboys (guzzy was wuzzy) ID#224149:
Cherokee – you have out bugged the buggers----

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:42
Carl (Another) ID#341189:
You are getting very specific now. I must humbly apologize for the unkind things I have said about you now that you are putting your credibility on the line. Right or wrong, I thank you for your prediction.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:38
A.Goose (What a cheerful, positive post to start the week off with.) ID#256254:
Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:55

Thanks Another, I am sure there are a lot of folks looking forward to this upmove in bullion. Have a GREAT week, month, year ....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:35
Haggis__A (MoReGoLd (@Haggis (AFN))) ID#398105:

They cannot produce the SILVER, as the mines in Papua New Guinea are still under development.

The Bhoys sitting in their Head Office Ivory Towers ran ahead of themselves........................VERY GOOD PROJECTS


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:31
Haggis__A (rhody & Steve in TO...................) ID#398105:

Which one of you is Professor Paul Kennedy ?

The history of the Second World War in two paragraphs ?!

Come on lads, lets have more FACTS - not fiction !

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:25
MoReGoLd (@Haggis (AFN)) ID#348286:
Do I understand this right, they are unable to produce the promised Gold and Silver?

HaHaHa...... How many more cases like this are ready to pop up?


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:25
cherokee__A (@----unshaven-legs------create-emotions----) ID#344308:

golden cheesehead----

now, now, now......are you trying to get realistic to
hike his skirt and re-post your post?
you know he gets all upset when 'emotion'
or ideals other than his own hit print......however, i'm
in for some more gold options......only have 22 of the buggers...
definitely time for more.....
'another' is the spirit of bre-x's guzman...helicopter rider extrordinaire.
he spins around and around....fixing to hit the ground.

cherokee!; ) ...pilot-of-the-gyrocopter....dotssmfatimmmf

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:25
Ted (Our Casino(wasn't moi)) ID#330175:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:21
MoReGoLd (@ANOTHER) ID#348286:
Can you tell us who were the buyers in November, and who are the buyers now?


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:19
Haggis__A (AUSTRALIAN GOLD FIELDS NL (AFN)......................OH DEAR !!) ID#398105:
Copyright © 1998 Haggis__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Prudential-Bache International Limited and Rothchilds.....

Australian Gold Fields Nl had an Administrator appointed today.

The Company had entered into a series of PUT OPTIONS with PBIL in gold and silver. It appears that due to the Morobe and Wafi gold/silver projects not being on schedule ( 5.6 Moz gold & 63.6 Moz silver ) .

This has caused the Company a severe cash flow situation, with PBIL with holding funds. The Company is now deemed to be insolvent or to become insolvent in the future.

This is a classic. GOOD projects........what a carve up !!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:18
Poorboys (As Another World Turns) ID#224149:
Another ----I hope you have insight ----out to buy some new summer shorts this late Spring. I like 334. Zebra style that is ---Intrusive.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:04
5-10 Days $320-$360 Gold!!!! Let's see if ANOTHER is for real! Am buying some more cheap June 330 gold calls this morning at $100 each. CHEAP!!! Especially if ANOTHER IS FOR REAL!!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:03
Speed (Significant Dates) ID#286199:
What are the significant dates for the Euro and EMU?
Has the SEC given approval to the changes in NYSE market stops? If yes, the when do they take effect? When does Japan's next big plan begin? April could be a really fun month! Once the big money can push the market 10 and 20% before hitting stops, they will whipsaw the little investors.
Once the Japanese allow investors to move their money elsewhere, they will. ( Thanks Bill Buckler for your analysis of this ) The Europeans must announce soon how much gold will be held in reserve. All of these things promise volatility.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 08:01
Donald__A (@Carl) ID#26793:
Lots of rain here this morning. Never had snow on the ground that lasted 24 hours this Winter.

The key to deflation is the report by the BIS yesterday that liquidity is drying up as bankers tighten their lending standards. They see themselves as overexposed. Computers have been the hot product for years. Manufacturing capacity is huge. We may have reached the glut point at the same time that MIS budgets have been diverted to solving the Y2K problem. I am sticking with my deflationary forecasts and continue to insist that gold does best in a deflation.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:57
Auric (More on the Kosovo Crisis) ID#255151:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:55

The purchase of large physical stocks of gold in Nov. did send a message to the CBs. They did begin slowdown of sales/easing. The “management tool of gold in the 90s” ( see Date: Sat Mar 07 1998 13:08 ANOTHER ( THOUGHTS! ) ID#60253 ) is now to go into reverse! A large purchase, now, is sending another message, “bring gold back into $320 to $360 US$ range. We should see this in five to ten days. This will be a hard thing, as it may create a crush to cover. Let us watch this “new gold market”, as it is not as before.

I will post later in march!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:55
Gaston2 (Many pieces are not here, for a real stock market crash...) ID#377211:
Copyright © 1998 Gaston2/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Many pieces are not there, for a stock market crash... Monday, March 09, 1998
The US stock market still belongs to the big bad bulls! And here is why: ( IMHO and some already stated by others on this thread ) . NOTE: that POG and gold stock could keep rising from here, though.. and that is why accumulating gold right now looks as a fantastic bargain... we still have plenty of time, folks... ( more than a few weeks! )
The US stock market BULLs STILL HAVE IT because, for a market crash in the US you need the following SEQUENCE OF EVENTS ( IMHO and from my reading of Kitco and other things ) ...
Please note that 1-7 are in, 8-13 have started, 14 to 19 are NOT in, and 20 is not happening...
1. booming US economy ( yes, we have it in the US )
2. strong currency, ready to go down ( we have a strong $, but it is not looking as if it will weaken severely soon )
3. more and more people invested in the stock market ( funds )
4. monetary expansion ( yes )
5. Expansion of easy credits ( yes in the US: home mortgage, Home equity loans, credit cards )
6. Currency uncertainties ( outside US: yes, while the $ is very strong and not quite ready to bow.. )
7. Outside event ( s ) rocking another country economy ( We have it: Asia )
8. Analysts, experts warn that too much stock market speculation is dangerous ( starting a little bit, but when speculative mania occurs, nobody listens. Greenspan would have the most influence, but he just said that the “US economy is calm”
9. Internal event rocking the US economy ( none yet, really )
10. Spread of financial/currency distress from one country to another ( Yes: internal to Asia, and yes, it is starting to nudge economies worldwide )
11. Deflation or Inflation ( neither in the US )
12. Speculative mania ( it is starting : “stock market can only go up”, “I won’t sell because of capital gains”, “holding long is the only strategy”... but most of our US street neighbors are NOT maniac about speculation, yet!... you need irrational, euphoric investing by the masses... right now it is, instead, steady, orderly and rising investing by the masses, through retirement mutual funds mainly... NO mania yet )
13. Expansion of the stock market in a “bubble” ( yes, bubble is getting bigger for the US stock market )
14. financial distress of major banks: not here in the US
15. increase in unemployement ( nope! in the US )
16. financial distress at the individual level: not here yet... many still spend like crazy
17. another outside/inside event rocking the market further ( not yet: nobody knows what it could be...Iraq quiet, White house affairs seem to be ignored... El Nino drought coming with farm failures )
18. some banks start to fail ( not in the US yet )
19. FEAR enters average citizen’s mind ( yes in Indonesia... the opposite in the US )
20. Gold starting to be really hoarded by the masses ( not at all here )
As you can see, we have accomplished items 1-7 and nibbled at 8 to 13... I know, I know: 14 to 19 could happen very quickly, ....especially in this information age. Regarding 20... governements and other powerful parties will try to prevent a crazy rise in POG...
Conclusion: a true market crash is not really imminent, while a simple correction that could be actually quite small ( ~ 5% ) will probably occur sometimes this year....but ( IMHO ) gold and gold stocks will continue to slowly go up ( with some intermittent down drafts ) ... Looks like a repeat of 1987 when gold and gold stocks went up months before the October crash...
Just IMHO... Good luck all.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:51
Carl (Donald) ID#341189:
Morning, I'm not one to underestimate the mania and inertial habits of stockmarket investors, but I don't see how they can take much more of this. I bought a compac system for my youngest daughter a couple weeks ago - 200mhz, 32 mbram, complete with printer and monitor for $1000. I think our leading growth industry is in more trouble than the warnings imply. Talk about deflation! I've been buying PC's since my first TRS80, always above $2000. Weather here in Michigan is nasty today. Hope it misses you.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:48
jcw (Sign of an impending gold rally) ID#198170:
Considering the rate at which the Japaneses are printing yen and their incredibly low interest rates, perhaps we should expect the BOJ to soon be PAYING banks to take their money. Perhaps, then, gold will rally.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:43
Poorboys (Birds of a Feather) ID#224149:
The Rocket Scientists can bring gold up for a short time ---Away to feed the Pigeons

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:42
Donald__A (Oil prices sink lower as Saudi's say no to OPEC quick fix meeting) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:41
jcw (Japanese presses in hyperdrive) ID#198170:
TOKYO ( Nikkei ) -The Bank of Japan had by Friday injected some 19.8 trillion yen of funds into the banking system to mature after March, it was learned Saturday. The abnormally high figure - set to top 20 trillion yen sometime this week - is running some 8.6 times above last year's levels.

The money has helped keep short-term money rates low, as businesses struggle to secure funds for the new fiscal year starting April.

The money market is still paying for the financial mess brought about by Sanyo Securities Co. which failed in November, leaving domestic companies weighed down by fears about their credit risk. The situation worsened still after the failure of Yamaichi Securities Co., pushing interest rates on the benchmark three-month Euroyen up to 1.18% in early December. The rate was around 0.52% in late October.

The instrument stood at the 0.88% level Friday for Tokyo interbank trading ( TIBOR ) , the lowest since Dec. 1. One-month Euroyen rates were down to 0.98% after peaking at 1.34%.

( The Nihon Keizai Shimbun Sunday morning edition )

At 125 yen/$ that's 160 billion dollars! Their presses must be starved for lubricating oil. The dollar won't have to battle very hard to stay up against the yen for the time being. If our presses get to running at that rate gold may have a chance.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:39
Donald__A (Malaysia plans a stronger ringgit to defend against speculators) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:35
Donald__A (No end in sight to scandal in Japan. BOJ insider tips this time.) ID#26793:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:20
JIN (Still imf/indonesia....) ID#206358:
Pick from the region news wire read:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:20
Avalon (@Nick @ C; All the best on your new publishing venture; I will however become) ID#254269:
quite concerned when you start to recommend bottom of the harbour futures.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:15
rhody (@Steve in TO.) ID#411331:
Re. Britain hanging out the Australians to be butchered in the fall of
Singapore, Britain did the same thing to Canada with the raid at Dieppe.
Britain new that the establishment of a second ( western ) front in 1942 was premature, but Russian pressure to establish such a offensive prevailed. Rather than use British troops, mere colonials in the form of Canadians made up the bulk of the force. Over 500 Canadians died and
1500 were captured. To have had such casualties using British troops would have caused a political stink at home.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 07:11
JIN (Future & Options studies.Please help!thanks!) ID#206358:

I'm start to learn future & options markets,beginner!Would be great and
appreaciated if anyone can show me some sites ( urls ) and enlighten me!
happy trading always!

( )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 06:54
Steve in TO__A (aurator & others- why Oz wants to kick the Queen out!) ID#287337:
Copyright © 1998 Steve in TO__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Saw your earlier post about the republican movement. My impression was that the republican movement has its roots in WW2 when Britain tricked the Aussies into holding Singapore against impossible odds with word that relief forces would be sent. Churchill had decided to renege on sending the cover, and didn't tell the Aus. gov't- presumably so they would buy time for Britain's other objectives in Malaysia & Burma. The Aussies were massacred, and there was a huge amount of public anger. It sort of crystalized a feeling they had long had that Britain was a fair-weather friend, that would use the Autralians to further its own ends even if the Aussies ended up being hung out to dry.

That feeling has been confirmed since IMHO. Any of the Oz posters wish to comment?


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 06:41
2BR02B? (@oddly burnt offerings) ID#266105:

I dunno but that merry prankster H. Kissinger once
noted that the reason academic arguments are so fierce
is that there's so little at stake.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 06:24
rhody (@ALL) ID#411331:
Copyright © 1998 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Nobody can predict the future, but anybody can try. I have been telling my friends that the Dow will crest in the middle two weeks of March and
that they should buy silver and gold. My opinion is based on price-earnings multiples that are not only historic in altitude but
histeric in attitude. Graphics, suggest a turning point in March, both
in the DOW, and the XAU, the former down, the latter up.
Re Barrick Gold, does anybody else consider it odd that both a former president of the United States ( Bush ) and prime minister of Canada ( Mulrooney ) , are on the board of directors of this company? Both have no experience in the operation of gold ( or any ) mining companies. But both are members of the Norh American ( anti-gold ) Establishment. To those who
feel that Munk and company have acted illogically, and or stupidly, and
not in the best interest of mere shareholders, I can only say that stupidity is not a factor but political duplicity is.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 06:18
OLD GOLD (misc.) ID#238295:
Once again gold and Asia move in the same direction.

JSE gold index up about 0.7% this morning despite POG falling a bit. Very unusual and encouraging action.

Speed: I think you have the correct perspective on the relationship of the Euro to POG.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 06:09
Fred(@Vienna)__A (All Fred´s lyrics and music: Courtesy of beat your meat-music Vienna. ) ID#185448:
Copyright © 1998 Fred(@Vienna)__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
John Disney, master of the golden springbook:
re your 1:19 post.
I do believe ( = hope ) that the EURO will be backed by gold to a larger extent than expected. One hint: During these pre-Euro times, all CB´s give 20% of the total national gold holdings to the EWI ( european currency institute ) in Frankfurt. This is remarkable, as there aint no EURO yet to be backed and the CB´s still have to care for their own currencies ( to a certain extent ) .

A firm EURO is the conditio sine qua non ( hehe ) for some of the participants: Take a close look at Germany - they didnt sell an ounce.

Implementing the EURO still is an experiment with an uncertain outcome. Major european countries still do not trust each other at least as far as the EURO is concered. I assume that most of them will run a double-strategy: Participation in the monetary Union AND - as a worst case scenario - keep some powder dry for the day after.

Public opinion all over europe is strongly anti-EURO. Unemployment rates are very high. In Germany the social democrats are on the verge of returning to power.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 06:03
Nick@C (---------Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter--------------) ID#393224:
Copyright © 1998 Nick@C/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

------------------Nickaurator Enterprises 1998---------------------

Subscriptions: $10 001 per annum ( Put that in your pipe--Veneroso! )
Note: Subscribers will receive their copy one hour before it is posted free on Kitco.

Free Issue # 3 1/2

( Note: This special 1/2 Issue is being distributed while we wait for electricity to be connected to our Auckland office. This should take no more than another six months ) .

Special bulletin to subscribers:

We strongly urge all subscribers to stay glued to their computer keyboards and to update their e-mail every 30 seconds so as not to miss incoming issues of the A.C.N..Those who were late on the explosive move in PORK BELLIES , which started immediately after the release of A.C.N. Issue # 3 will no doubt have learned from this experience. Non-subscribers who freeload by viewing on KITCO will of course be too late to profit from recommendations.

Further to our recommendation in Issue # 3 for subscribers to immediately sell all gold and gold-related investments:

We have received important new information which has changed our recommendation from a SELL to a HOLD. We urge subscribers to immediately BUY BACK all of the gold and gold-related investments that they SOLD so that they can now HOLD them. Any inconvenience caused by commissions are of course the responsibility of the holder.

This important new information was a SURVEY of all KITCO gold analysis posts for the past week. We counted all of the wishful thinking references made about gold during the week, added to this the number of negative aspersions made in reference to politicians and other government officials, then divided this by the mean IQ of the posters ( 78-a constant ) to come up with THE KITCO DOOM AND GLOOM INDEX. The KDGI now stands at 5.7, just below the all-time high of 6.1 ( Jan 7, 1998 ) . We expect the all-time high to be taken out in the next two weeks. This event will then trigger our gold BUY signal.

Since most subscribers will have already BOUGHT so that they could HOLD, we will recommend further purchases should this eventuate.

Carpe Aurum ( and carpe some more when the signal is given ) .

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 05:24
Reify (POST-Barry's aticle) ID#413109:
Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:05
mozel ( @aurator @JohnD More Illuminati Doings ) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

MOZEL, would appreciate hearing from you re above. Please email.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 05:22
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

I'm reminded of a Bell Curve debate when it was all the
hubbub on another forum, a nuke fizz commenting that the
general theory could never have been lit upon by an IQ
of 80. And to all a good nite.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 05:19
Auric (Serbia Unrest) ID#255151:

Here is a potential mess developing for U.S. and Europe. Some bloodshed in Kosovo.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:52
Chrisophilos (farfel; re: your 02:53) ID#277302:
Copyright © 1998 Chrisophilos/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Munk and the rest of the major producers are not stupid. When they sold forward and drove down the price of gold they knew exactly what they were doing. They protected themselves from lower gold prices and can continue producing at a profit but the non-hedged or lightly hedged producers and juniors are the ones that are really suffering now as their stock prices have been decimated. That's what the large producers wanted to accomplish so they can scoop up the most attractive juniors at a song. I expect to see a lot of take-overs of junior producers and exploration companies but probably not until later this summer, after the euro central bank decides on how much gold it will hold in reserves. The major producers are set to monitize their hedges at $260 and will use these profits to go shopping for juniors.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:43
aurator (Oh Ludd! Please don't let me be misconstruated. (thanks Earl)) ID#257148:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Alas. I have been misunderstood. However I am glad I am still awake you correct this.
The Village Idiot Theory of the Market ( you must be a new lurker? ) is simply that noone knows what the market will be tomorrow. It may be up, it may be down, it it is the same, noone came out to play.

To the VI, ( not mine, but a beautifula metaphor, just have to give her a wee dusting from time to time )

It is like, Betting on which side of his jerkin the village idiot will dribble on tomorrow. Will it be the left or the right, will the market be up or down?

Your 04:14:

Time will tell. It would be nice to have the utmost confidence in the predictions of experts but the truth is only time will tell.

gave me the unrealistic ( as I see now, being mortally wounded ) hope that someone else here had realised that noone can predict what will happen tomorrow.

No matter how pompously or flippantly the post is put, noone can predict the future. You may be right 6 times or ten times in a row. Hazard. The dice are rolling,

Why do I bother? I did not mean to offend you, jcw, oh brave TLA. I was not even trying to extract the Mickey, this time...

And now I am away to put on a fresh jerkin for tomorrow.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:40
Auric (Gold ) ID#255151:

Speaking of sports. You know them bicycle races where the two opponents go REAL slow for the first three laps, then ride like Hell the last lap? Well, that's how the Gold market is. The trick is finding out what lap you're on. I guess we are near the middle of the third lap.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:30
jcw (aurator) ID#198170:
I may well be the village idiot in regard to the gold market. But I'm not alone and in the company of many purported experts. I do share with many the strong opinion that this gold bear does not have much further to go - I speak not just with my mouth but with my pocketbook. Let's see some specific calls that we all remember and look back to with awe. Of course if you keep calling for gold's move, you'll eventually get it.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:23
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

What happens in Sydney in 2000. If it's an Olympics,
summer probably, I'll cross that bridge on TV probably.
BTW, one of the summer olympics had one of my two he-ros
...guy represented some country in sailing at age 57.
Never too late. Other he-ro, guy takes off from his
back yard lawnchair with helium balloons, BB gun for
altitude adjustment, cooler strapped on. ( look marge,
there goes fred. )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:20
aurator (One Fine Day--- in the Village Market) ID#257148:
Psssst. Hey You! shhh! Come over here! Quiet. ... You sound like another convert to the Village Idiot theory of markets... Can I interest you in a Newsletter? How about some incense?


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:19
jcw (Oops! I forgot to uncopyright my last post) ID#198170:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:14
jcw (farfel - deficit of gold bulls and demise of the euro) ID#198170:
Copyright © 1998 jcw/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
farfel - you have in your two consecutive posts expressed the schizophrenic ambivalence that many of us feel. On the one hand you lament the lack of gold bulls and cite that as proof that gold's time has come ( I hope ) . But in the next post, you posit the possibility that the Euro will fail and the dollar will continue its' hegemony - leaving gold in the doldrums. The point is, it's a complicated market whose direction is dependent on multiple unpredictable variables. I would not be so certain to suggest that the failure of the euro will leave gold in the dumps. There may be other variables ( mostly political ) that may take gold on a run no matter what. Time will tell. It would be nice to have the utmost confidence in the predictions of experts but the truth is only time will tell.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:11
aurator (When Gold medals were real gold medal, men were men, women were women, and NZ sheep ruled the world) ID#257148:
ugotta be a yank/southern boy, you never heard of de commonwelf games? :- ) The nations of the once Proud ( Sun never sets on ) British Empire who gave her colonies independance and free association, joyfully proclaim their one time Dominion status by sporting competitively together in the manner of the Olympics. One hell of a good show, it you ever have the opportunity. But aren't you going to Sydney in 2000?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 04:04
2BR02B? (@dont think twice its alright) ID#266105:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:53
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

Nope, what are Commonwealth games. Heard of Ted Turner's
alternative olympics.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:50
aurator () ID#257148:
Speaking of the golden olympics, do you know about the Commonwealth games, aren't they supposed to be held in Malaysia this year?

JIN Thank you v much for your input, very valuable, did you get my e-mail?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:41
2BR02B? (@NW chamber of commerce/travelogue ad) ID#266105:

Sequoias & redwoods in the high Sierras are nice ( Gary
Snyder ) , the trout surfacing at dusk around flat
whiskey/coke/Yukon Jack rock cool pool betwixt
tumbling boulder spills/steep glen/early shade.

But the olympics are different ambiance. Gaining
purchase on towering fir/cedar/spruce is simply
staggering. Like french toast served 13th cent.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:33
Auric (Trading Places) ID#255151:

What a great movie. Remember Winthorp saying, Pork Bellies! Something very interesting will happen today in Pork Bellies. Anticipating Issue Four of the ACN.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:23
aurator (hoo doo voodoo doo doo voodoo hoohoo doo doo voodoo doo u) ID#257148:
enuff illuminati already! ( in my best bronx accent ) Ya just cut me up with this stuff.


A forthcoming Issue of:-

-----------------The Antipodean Contrarian Newsletter------------------
Nickaurator Enterprises 1998
Subscriptions: $10 001 per annum ( Put that in your pipe--Veneroso! )
Note: Subscribers will receive their copy one hour before it is posted free on Kitco.

will be devoted to numerology, illuminati, crystalography, chicken chucking and eclipse geomancing as important tools in the TA toolbox.
In this Bumper edition ALSO:
How to use your password and kitco number as the key to unlock your potential to greater investment returns.
How to see if you measure up.
How to turn that gold bug gloom into prozac clouded hysteria.
You gotta read the ACN

Do you sincerely want to be rich?

Go ask Bernie Cornfield, Ivan Kreuger, Horatio Bottomly and Charlie Ponzi their secret. YUP they each had a subscription to the ACN. The cooolest TLA ( Three Letter Acronmym ) since GST.

I know you'll all want an advance copy.

Get yours now as Mon said to Billy.

That's right they were talking about---- the A C N---

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:17
farfel (THE NEGATIVITY AND CAPITULATION ON THIS FORUM RE: GOLD...) ID#339265: a truly depressing sight. On an empirical basis, I would guess that there are no more than 3 or 4 TRUE gold bulls still posting on this forum.

What does it mean?

It's here.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 03:13
...F___KED! The U.S. dollar will continue its hegemony ad infinitum.

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:57
John Disney__A (Bilderberg dazzeled mouse speaks..) ID#24135:
for farfel the magnificent.

Thank you .. A mouse never forgets

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:55
John Disney__A (A big MACBilderberger ... sounds just right) ID#24135:
for Mozel
I was gonna post something about the gold - silver ratio
but I was so dazzled by Netanyahooo and the King of Spain that
I think I'll take the rest of the day off. Ill work some more
on the Chicken standard and how to pick winners at the horse
I think the Bilbergers should open fast food outlets.
One Bilderberger .. hold the Mustard.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:53
farfel (@DISNEY...YOUR OO:37 IS SHEER GENIUS...) ID#339265:
Copyright © 1998 farfel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Munk is THE stooge of the THREE idiot and a moron who should be summarily fired from his job and excluded from the gold industry he has succeeded in completely destroying!!!

Many Barrick shareholders think he is a smart man...however, take a look at Barricks stock price today versus its price a year ago...down over 50%.

What a smart F__cker he truly he is!! He forward sold 75% of Barrick's production at 410 in a world glutted with gold. Now he is surprised that gold is at 295? HELLO...IS THERE ANYBODY HOME UPSTAIRS, MUNKMAN?

Oh, well, at least Trizec-Hahn is doing really well!! I cannot say enough bad things about this vile man!!

Thus Spake F*, the Unpronounceable.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:51
John Disney__A ( SARB) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
for Mozel
The SARB is a company traded on the JSE. I am told
that it is widely held by financial instututions. I will
have to get an Annual report to see who actually owns
the shares . The Government may own a small percentage.
Im not sure.
The main Government interest in the gold industry
is via the Rand Refinery ( capacity 1200 ish tons a year ) .
where I think it has controlling interest. Harmony
has built a small ( 40/50 ton ) competing refinery which
is now operating. Other mining companies than Harmony
have now obtained the right to sell directly. Apparently
Harmony has begun maunufacture of gold chain for the
jewelery industry.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:48
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

( taptaptap ) Yawn.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:38
mozel (@Netanyahu Story) ID#153102:
If oil will bid for gold, prudence would say to make new or contingent security arrangements with nearby friends in advance. Are the enemies of Israel the friends of the Saudi ?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:07
2BR02B? (@the Mad Hatter in a soapbox derby) ID#266105:

Periscope up!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:05
mozel (@aurator @JohnD More Illuminati Doings) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved


By Barry Chamish

JERUSALEM, Mar. 7 - What a week for New World Order Developments in Israel!
Without a doubt, something extremely dramatic is in the air and all of
about 100 people in Israel know it. Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, who
was groomed and placed in power by the Illuminati of America, decided on
March 2 to switch allegiances to the Illuminati of Europe.

For those unfamilar with the modern conspiracy trend, now commonly known as
New World Order theory; the world's diplomacy is secretly controlled by a
cabal of extremely wealthy and influential men who adhere to an ideology of
creating a One World government. There are two rivals within the
conspiracy, one Anglo-Saxon, the other European. Both share the same goal
but differ on who will run this global tyranny.

The seat of the New World Order in America is The Council On Foreign
Relations ( CFR ) in Manhattan. To reach consensus with the rest of the
cabal, the CFR created one sister organization in the 1970s called the
Trilateral Commission, and joined another in 1954, called the Bildebergers,
named after a Dutch hotel where the conspirators first gathered to bring
their order to the planet.

The NWO planners corrupt governments worldwide and when they refuse to
cooperate, arrange wars, hyper-inflation, starvation and the like until
they relent. Yitzhak Rabin was firmly in the hands of the Anglo-Saxon
branch, Shimon Peres, the Europeans. Netanyahu was also thought to be
beholden to his American masters... until the first week of March.

After three soldiers were killed in Southern Lebanon, Netanyahu became the
first Prime Minister to call for the implementation of the UN resolution
calling for Israel's withdrawal from the Lebanese security zone. And if
this wasn't shocking enough, he invited the French to replace Israel in
Lebanon and bring their own security plan to the region.

Not a day later, Netanyahu invited the EU to submit its own peace plan for
the region, not so subtly, as an alternative to the American CFR program,
which was outlined in a task force report last July. The CFR's idea of
peace is having Israel withdraw to its pre-1967 lines everywhere including

Within two days the EU announced its own initiative to break the deadlock
in the peace process. My, wasn't that fast? The plan, reprinted in
Haaretz, would include a significant Israeli withdrawal from the West
Bank, the immediate opening of the Palestinian airport at Dahaniyeh, an
unequivocal cessation of all settlement activities by Israel... and if you
think there's nothing in it for Israel, a mutual commitment to implement
security measures.

All around, it's as bad a deal ( for Israel ) as the CFR was demanding, yet
on March 4, Netanyahu took an NWO tour of Europe. He first visited King
Juan Carlos of Spain, then Chancellor Helmut Kohl of Germany, then British
Prime Minister Tony Blair and on the last day, the unnamed Prime Minister
of Norway. I say unnamed because in all Israeli press accounts, the
reporters didn't know his name nor that of his wife who would also be
meeting Bibi.

Now surely, somebody must be asking, why would Netanyahu's first stop be to
visit the King of Spain? For that matter, why Spain at all? How much clout
does Spain have in the Middle East, or even in Europe?

Now here is where conspiratorial literature really helps put the pieces
together. Let us look at a brief biography found in Texe Marrs' book,
Circle of Intrigue:

Juan Carlos lays claim to the title, King Of Jerusalem. He is
further called the Defender of Catholic Holy Land Interests.
Juan Carlos has close ties with Jewish Zionist interests. The
Spanish King, accompanied by the President of Israel, Chaim
Herzog, has visited Madrid's Jewish synagogue to cement these
ties...King Juan Carlos is not only a member of the Illuminati's
Inner Circle, he is also a member of Opus Dei, a powerful and
aecretive Roman Catholic Order.

Alex Constantine writes of the Spanish King's more secret associations in
his book, Psychic Dictatorship in the U.S.A. He claims the royal sire is
sympathetic to the paedophilic cult, the Children Of God. ( One ) of the
cult's patrons is King Juan Carlos of Spain, whose sexual appetite is
legendary, Constantine says.

You just don't get this kind of background in the mainstream press. After
Blair was elected, the same anti-conspiracy media was quick to point out
that Phoney Tony was a member of the Bilderbergers and sat in on its last
annual meeting. The literature on Kohl is vast and it cites his
manipulation of the Socialist International to bring a European Union with
its own currency into being as part of the grand One World government plan.

As for Norway, ask what all Israelis should ask: why is the Middle East
Peace Process being run out of this peanut of a nation? Why must all
fateful decisions pass through the hands of Lapland?

And why did Netanyahu take this trip? The respected conspiracy author, Joel
Bainerman ( Crimes Of A President ) notes, Netanyahu visited Mitterand, Kohl
and Major while he was the opposition leader, and numerous reports and
rumors strongly suggest that he promised to maintain the Oslo Accords if he
was elected prime minister. It's not the first time he's revealed some
serious European ties. The Americans may be his masters but he is capable
of rebelling against them.

It is very foolish and deadly to betray NWO alliances. In 1995, Peres was
forced to abandon Europe by the Anglo Saxons and he was rewarded with a
string of bloody suicide bombers and a murderous mini-war in Lebanon.
Shifting allegiances cost Peres his career but abandoning NWO vows can also
cost one his life, as may well be the case with Yitzhak Rabin.

Prime Minister Netanyahu appears to have broken with the American
powerbrokers and gone with the European insiders. If recent history has
taught us anything, Israel will be bled in retaliation and/or Netanyahu had
better trust his bodyguards.

Truth in Media Web page:

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:04
James (John Disney@PPT+Alice In Wonderland) ID#252150:
I realize that it does'nt compute, but it has'nt computed for a very long time. Nevertheless, that does'nt make it any less real.

Night All

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:02
2BR02B? (@alright, who's holding the lettuce) ID#266105:
Copyright © 1998 2BR02B?/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Let's MAKE money!!! Ok, trading some for market opening.
Stack of GTE shares acquired on feelessly favorable discounted
terms while employed, called kid's college fund. GTE, unlike
sister RBOC's ( methinks ) actually is executing, positioning
to be 'picks & shovels/spuds & flour' Netwise-- lossa fiber,
deep, broad infrastructure. Actually like the company, 'fraid
of roulette wheel it sits at, market risk. Gone, for more than
house purchase ( ha! ) . For now, simply cash equivalents, still
college bound, maybe 4-5 years, maybe 3 little weasels at same
time. A'vice?

General Instruments cum NextLevel recum General Instruments,
small lot ( 200sh ) also gone. Installed Nextlevel digital
cable headends all over country last year into TCI joints,
piggybacking digital signal/service onto existing analog
signal/cable plants. Podunk, Widespot, Bugtussle, NoWhere,
umhmmm. Cable headend engineers special breed, nice to work
with, often going back to vacuum tubes, invariably local
boys, headend/cable plant and head, no diff. Digital cable
headends a sticky wicket to install, TCP/IP i-net point&click
protocol, cutting edge gear nobody knew anything about in
Actuality, as it turned out. The GenInst folks-- smooth
operator/andis, bought the stuff on triple header bad
day-- fired CEO, earning announced down for next quarter
and likely all next year, sale of losing division, big
loss/charge. Month later announces co-branding settops
with bigguy Sony, BANG! Did nice, like those folks/company
dearly, but still roulette wheel/market risk. Maybe later.
Nuthin' left but a 7-year pittance ( 50sh ) of RTZ/Rio Tinto,
the rest cash/equiv and PM shares/funds/items. Probably
just cash, maybe more FCXPrD silver-backed, yeah, no, maybe?
As if I care.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 02:00
aurator (Move over Darwin--) ID#255284:
I suspect only the paranoid will survive the millenium & I have a good handicap.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:57
John Disney__A (That's an interesting theory) ID#24135:
James .. but I dont see it that way.. I think something may be
happening in Asia at the same time.. and I think banks in
disarray is good for gold.. $ as safe haven are you kidding
me .. Hey James this is me .. John.
$ as safe haven .. US prints more .. deeper in debt .. does not
compute.. does not compute..

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:54
James (Now for something spiritually upliftng) ID#252150:
Copyright © 1998 James/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Heroes of My Lai massacre honoured at last


THIRTY years after the My Lai massacre, three Americans who turned their guns on fellow soldiers in order to save the lives of Vietnamese civilians have received recognition as heroes.

The Soldier's Medal, the highest award for bravery not involving conflict with an enemy, has been awarded to Hugh Thompson and Lawrence Colburn, and posthumously to their comrade Glenn Andreotta, who was killed in battle three weeks after the massacre.

During the medal ceremony in Washington Major-General Michael Ackerman said that it was a shameful chapter, but the three medal winners had rejected the example of other American soldiers and set the standard for all soldiers to follow. We finally recognise these men for their heroic actions, the general said.

About 450 civilians - women, children and old men - were killed in a frenzy of slaughter and sexual assaults, including at least one gang rape, as American troops swept in and around the hamlet of My Lai on March 16, 1968. No Viet Cong forces were encountered.

Mr Thompson, then 24, was a helicopter pilot whose mission was to draw enemy fire. Mr Colburn and Andreotta were his crew. As Mr Thompson recalled, there was shooting, there were piles of bodies in a ditch, but the dead were not soldiers. Every time we made a pass there were more bodies, he said. I saw one incident where an American just walked up to a woman and blew her away.

The trio saw ten women and children cowering in a bunker. Mr Thompson put the helicopter down between them and a squad of advancing Americans. His gun drawn, he asked a lieutenant if he could get the civilians out. With a hand grenade, the officer replied.

Mr Thompson said: Hold your people right here, I think we can do better than that. He called in another helicopter to rescue the civilians. With Mr Colburn and Andreotta, he provided weapons cover in case their fellow Americans started shooting.

Mr Thompson's medal citation for heroism above and beyond the call of duty was brutally candid. It said he landed his helicopter in the line of fire between fleeing Vietnamese civilians and pursuing American troops to prevent their murder.

The episode contributed significantly to undermining domestic support for the war. Lieutenant William Calley, commander of Charlie Company, was found guilty of murder, but his life sentence was reduced to 20 years and the Army allowed him to serve three days in prison followed by three years of house arrest.

I can't understand why they waited this long to honour these men. As for Calley, he got off a way too easy.

Gone for tonight.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:44
sharefin (Gold and Silver Index, the XAU - commentary) ID#284255:
Scroll down to bottom of page.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:38
James (John Disney@Restore with what) ID#252150:
If the Euro gets derailed the individual CBs will then give up any pretense of fiscal & monetary prudence & competetitive devaluations will continue unabated.
The individual CBs will then have to contend with Govt's faced with increasing unemployment & resort to desperate measures.
Not unlike the aristocracy who were forced to sell off their family jeweles. The $U.S. will be the only safe haven.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:33
John Disney__A ( Only kidding ) ID#24135:

For James ..
No of course not .. but then nobody could EVER be that wrong.
It's like absolute ZERO.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:32
aurator (No left turn unstoned) ID#255284:
5.5*2.5*1.0 c.m. in my quick measurement, I get asked the darndest questions!!

As Donald said, we look under every stone at kitco!


Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:27
mozel (@JohnD @No place to run, no place to hide) ID#153102:
Copyright © 1998 mozel/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
It is difficult to generate much confidence in Munk and ABX. It is also incredible that these guys have made a prima facia anti-trust case against themselves in public. Could they be that stupid ? Or do they really work for someone besides the stockholders ?

More information about SARB would be welcome. Owning a share of a gold mine is a great idea, but gold is going out of sight one way or the other and IMHO plans should be made accordingly.

For those of you who had not heard, public safety are legal code words for martial law.

Court Advises Council on how to Properly Circumvent the Constitution

In the case of Scott Bullock v.s. Forest Park, involving
searches for ordinance compliance, Federal District Judge Joan
has issued a ruling striking down approximately half of the
ordinance, declaring that it was unreasonable and arbitrary.
In recent times, various municipalities around the nation have used
their presumed authority to inspect private homes for compliance with
various building, fire, and health regulations passed by those
municipalities. From the far reaching nature of the regulations,
determining compliance involves an almost minute inspection of the
buildings involved, and their contents.
Typically, residents are given notice of the impending inspections
mail and by public notice, with the inspections scheduled at the
convenience of the inspectors. Residents are required to open their
to the inspectors at all reasonable times, and dire civil and
criminal penalties are threatened if the residents fail to provide full
Often the municipalities target rented homes in this effort, and
their leverage over landlords to coerce tenants' cooperation. Since
landlords are required to obtain permission from the municipalities to
business, they are therefore liable to official hindrance if they
When some residents object to this high-handed approach,
municipalities harden their stance. Deeming such inspections for the
public good, municipalities claim that Fourth Amendment protections do
apply; when residents demand warrants, municipalities respond with
administrative warrants, which are documents stating that they are
warrants, but lack the Constitutional requirement of affidavits of
cause. Further, municipalities levy monetary charges against residents
demand their presumed Fourth Amendment protection for the production of
these incomplete warrants.
Scott Bullock, representing tenants in the Chicago suburb of Park
Forest, challenged the village's practice of inspections of single
rental dwellings in federal District Court in December of 1995,
that it placed the tenants in the category of second class citizens.
Judge Joan Gottschall continued Fourth Amendment concerns for
and security are profoundly implicated when a government official
the sanctity of a person's home. The inspections here are unquestionably
invasive. Warrants are served by an inspector and a police officer.
room in a residence is inspected, including bedrooms and bathrooms.
The Fourth Amendment of which Judge Gottschall was expressing
states: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall
be violated, and no Warrant shall issue, but upon probable cause,
by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
She further held that the law was not based on reasonable
and administrative standards, and declared this court can find nothing
the record to indicate why the Village undertook such an intrusive
inspection program solely for rented single-family homes and can find
nothing that limits in any way the scope of the inspections.
This is the remaining area the Fourth Amendment protects, as the
sponsored HR 666, passed in 1995, lack provision to eliminate Fourth
Amendment protection in this remaining area.
Further agreeing with the resident's complaint, Judge Gottschall
ruled that the $60 fee imposed upon residents who demanded a search
to be an unconstitutional restriction on the exercise of their Fourth
Amendment rights. This is in agreement with other courts, which have
held that no governmental entity may infringe upon citizens' rights by
imposing fees for their exercise, effectively turning these rights into
purchased governmental privileges to be granted or denied at the whim of
that government entity.
The court also stated that explicit consent for search was
of the tenants in whom Fourth Amendment rights are vested, not the
of the landlords.

Another federal case involving Constitutional limitations on
government, the so-called Lopez decision, struck down as
a federal law which enacted a gun free zone around schools. The
of the Supreme Court in Lopez worded their ruling with what amounted
instructions to the legislative body who enacted the law. The
specified how the legislative body could craft a law which would
the constitutional limitations, against the interest of the principals,
sovereign citizenry.
Following the encouragement of the court, Congress subsequently
such a law worded in the fashion suggested by the court. The original
intent of the law, declared unconstitutional by the justices as an
infringement upon the rights of the sovereign citizens, was resurrected
the subsequent legislation. Interested parties are therefore required to
again adjudicate a challenge to a law already overturned, at great
and uncertainty, against the complicity of the court itself.
This practice was repeated in the inspections case, with the
instructing the municipality to state the necessity of inspection for
end of public safety. Further instructions were implicit in the
ruling, with the guidance that single family rental dwellings not be
singled out, and that some limitation be placed upon the scope of the
In practice, however, this results in a greater infringement, for
municipality is instructed to include all dwellings, and to include
but effectively meaningless language limiting the scope of search. It
all but stated that such compounding of the invasion will suffice to
satisfy the court.
Whatever the eventual outcome, it is clear that we have come a long
way since William Pitt, addressing the English House of Commons, stated
The poorest man may, in his cottage, bid difiance to the Crown. It may
frail, it's roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may
enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England may not enter. All
force may not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:26
themissinglink (Precious Metal Heft) ID#373403:
If you think gold is impressive, platinum is a downright shock. Very dense material.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:23
James (John DIsney) ID#252150:
I appreciate your impartiality, but I don't think I'm as wrong as Tzadeak.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:19
John Disney__A (Hit him again James) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

For James
You are right about Japan maybe.. Tzderg is
wrong .. BUT you are are wrong about the euro.
If the euro fails, individual CB must restore
gold holdings that were sold off in anticipation
of the euro coming to pass.. the $ has little to
do with it. I believe that if Kohl gets his @ss
dumped, the euro could be in trouble in Germany.
I think that would be VERY good for gold, as CBs
would then be in total disarray. I do not believe
that the euro plans include large gold backing.
I hope someone will convince me otherwise.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:11
John Disney__A (Just trying to calm you down) ID#24135:
For James and tzdiak
Dont fight kids .. If it makes you feel
any better, I think you're BOTH wrong.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:09
James (Tzadeak@The Stock Mkt Does Not = The Economy) ID#252150:
I can't believe that you are naive enough to think that the Japanese stock mkt has anything to do with the economy.
It is well known that there is an all out effort to keep the stock mkt high enough so that the banks can meet BIS requirements.
The underlying economy/financial system is deteriorating daily.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:07
John Disney__A (You're beginning to see the light) ID#24135:

For Salty
Loved your 00:49
Its reassuring to see that you are beginning
to understand what devils these illuminati chaps
really are. I think they should be rooted out and
the sooner the better.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:06
Selby () ID#286230:
John Disney: Fortunately we are getting close to a big silver mine in Cuba. Doubt there will be much more interference there. Also had a big TV exposee on the YK2 computer problem this evening including an interview with the leading guru on the topic. Looks like another gold is going up situation.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 01:04
Auric (BIG BARS) ID#255151:

aurator--It IS impressive how substantial Gold is. Do you have the dimensions of the 10 ounce Gold bar? My guess--The diameter of a Gold coin and about 2 inches long. ( I will resist the temptation to compare anyone's anatomy to a 10 ounce Gold bar )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:59
TZADEAK* (@ James....) ID#372344:
I really don't know ( without getting nasty ) how you can make a statement
like I was wrong on Japan, what BS! You said Japan ,at the time 15,000,
was going to collapse because of what you term as Japanese frugality
There is NO question I was right on! Japan tonight is about 17,000,
up about 16% and on the other hand were totally wrong
there was no collapse.....

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:59
John Disney__A (ABX is Canadian) ID#24135:
Right on Selby.
Barrick is Canadian Registered but with its
best assets in Nevada. Oboyoboyoboy. That
shoots down a lot of supposition. So if there's
any trouble the US either seizes its gold
or imposes confiscatory taxes on it .. after
all a Canadian Company is EXPLOITING a US
resource. Funny old business, hey. But dont
worry Mr Munk has it ALL under control.
to all.
Gold silver ratio at 49 plus as Silver
continues to disintegrate.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:55
aurator () ID#255284:
You really want to grab attention? Hand someone a 10oz bar. They look up, astonished at the weight!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:53
Japan has turned negative and is now down almost 1% together with the rest of Asia. Could be a long night for Rubin and AG!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:49
aurator (Rule Brittania -- well as long as she stays in Brittain---) ID#255284:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
okee, let's throw it open to the Aussies.
Why are you aussies waltzin to a Republic? I suspect that popular opinion shaped primarily by the ahhem, piccadillos of the Royals ( by which I mean, the descendants of Bavarian thieves ) has upset the australians who are not known for their prudishness, rather than any constitutional crisis or public rebellion. And that Republicanism seems like a good idea for a country with vast resource wealth wanting to strut its young stuff on the international stage without menapausal mother England dogging every step.

If I were of a suspicious bent, I should say that the Illuminati, realising that Nationalisation of the Mining Industry ( ie state compulsory purchase ) is near impossible outside war conditions, are manipulating the Australian Commonewealth and urging for a Republic, based on the unfree american model. During the chaos ( hard to imagine no chaos ) the Illuminati expect to insert such State Acquisition regimes within the new Declaration of inhuman obligations..

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:48
Auric (Gold) ID#255151:

Prometheus--I try to make the case for Gold in discussions with family, friends and colleagues. I have lately been using a visual aid in the form of a Canadian Maple Leaf Gold coin. It grabs their attention! It is something to watch their reactions when they see and hold it for the first time. Most of these people have never seen nor held an ounce of Gold. The first and necessary step is to get people interested in the subject. This certainly does that. Go Gold!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:45
James (6 PAK Mooney Tzadeak Speed) ID#252150:
6Pak & Mooney--Thanks for your kind words of support.

Tzadeak--I remember a couple of months ago when I posted that the Japanese financial system was in much worse shape than most investors could imagine & you attempted to refute my reasoning. You were wrong then & I think you may be just as wrong on the EURO.

Speed--short term & longer term--if the EURO gets derailed, it has to be bullish for the $U.S. & therefore negative for AU.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:40
themissinglink (Gold as an indication of inflation) ID#373403:
Copyright © 1998 themissinglink/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
Since governments are in the business of creating money, would it not stand to reason that the level of their interest in forcing gold down is proportional to their knowledge of their money creation?

I firmly believe that inflation is heading our way in the next 3-12 months. Whether that excacerbates a high employment/inflation spiral, or shuts down the debt based economy with high financing rates, or shuts down governments/spikes tax rates to finance $5.5 trillion we will see a major gyration in the business cycle.

I spent another few hours on Yahoo Stock Chat arguing about the merits of gold. It is certainly more fun than preching to the choir here on Kitco: ) I may have even won over a convert.



Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:38
Selby () ID#286230:
mozel: Just read your 4:04. I think you will find that Barrick is a Canadian company.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:37
John Disney__A (The three stooges go to Davos) ID#24135:
Copyright © 1998 John Disney__A/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
To Mozel .
I assume you read the Forbes article on the meeting
between NA mine managemant ( led by Munk ) and the Central
Banks. I want to read it again. I just cant believe it.
Is Munk serious He is going to buy the Central Bank's
gold .. oh gee but then he'll have to sell it too.
But he'll be orderly about it ( while the CBs were
reckless selling mainly to each other or to Asians ) .
So he ( read his shareholders ) will pay a premium to
get it so he can sell it back at the market price.
You think Barrick is good Okay buddy you buy it.
I believe that a meeting such as the one Mr Munk ( ey )
arranged with the Central Banks was ill advised, poorly
thought out, unplanned, and destructive to the interests
of his shareholders. Mr Munk ( ey ) is an arrogant and
silly showboat. Nobody that hires a jerk like Brian
Mulrooney can be very smart.
The problem with gold is that it is an asset that
does not generate additional wealth. It IS wealth.
It is the Highest CLASS of reserves .. higher than
cash BECAUSE it cannot be devalued .. cash can be ..
new franks .. old franks. It is free from the vagaries
of Government manipulation. Thus banking regulations
should recognize this but do not. For example all
banks should hold gold and, if assets are in GOLD,
reserves should have to be at held at a lower level
of total assets than cash say 15% instead of 20 %.
Maybe Chinese Banking regulations are different from
Western ones.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:32
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:
I'm seeking, not imparting. There was chat about Austrailia becoming a Republic. I was hoping to learn more.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:22
Prometheus (@GOODNITE) ID#210235:
Looking for a volitile morning. So long. Thanks to all who made this a most interesting weekend's posts!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:21
aurator (Government ; Individuals : Powers : Rights: Duties:- Who or what can legally steal gold?) ID#255284:
RU here? I was counting sheep when you posted your Sunday 4:04 OK, let's say I don't understand the chat about the Republic, I am after all a citizen of the British Commonwealth of Nations and not of a Republic. What would you say to assist my understanding?

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:20
Prometheus (@JTF) ID#210235:
Wish the markets were as clear-cut as good old sub-atomic particles. Oh, well. At least there is a parallel. Whenever any technical trader develops a system with which he can exploit market trends, he changes the trends and destroys the validity of his system. Keeps us on our toes!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:18
Prometheus (@Andy Smith - to all ) ID#210235:
The CB's sold 5x more gold in 96 than 97, from the WGC figures. But I don't remember any herald announcing this before the fact, say in late 95. Do any of you? That would give some credence to AS's recent announcements. I'm still not sure who he works for. Thought he was with Merrill Lynch in London. Please correct me on this, anyone.

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:12
JTF (Logging off for real this time -- last post!) ID#57232:
aurator: Always nice to know the MGT. What I like about secret conspiracies that are really secret is that thery are impossible to prove or disprove! In fact, if we did learn about a secret society, it would no longer be secret, and would probably be disbanded.
Reminds me of the 'Young' experiment. If you determined which aperture an electron went through, you irrevokably altered the electrons behavior.
Gets really frustrating when you try to understand something, and the mere act of trying alters the very phenomenon you wish to analyse!
Good night!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:12
DBog (Rea Gold) ID#267298:

Thanks for the post.

If time permits I'll give them a call tommorrow and if there's
anyone still there I'll see if I can get an update. If so I'll
post on KITCO tommorrow night.

Thanks again

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:09
Preacher (Rea Gold) ID#225273:

Rea is still mining in South America. And the stock is actually listed on the Nasdaq BB Pink Sheets under the symbol REAGF.
I'd like to find out more myself. But it's hard since the receivers padlocked the doors to the office.
Hopefully, with a higher gold price, the bank will renegotiate and Rea can get listed again.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:04
aurator (The MGT) ID#255284:
Copyright © 1998 aurator/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved

Rothschild/Adam Weishaupt & Illuminati

all in a link given earlier today from cherokee:

According to the late Commander William Guy Carr, who was an Intelligence Officer in the Royal Canadian Navy, and whohad excellent contacts in intelligence circles around the world, the founder of the House of Rothschild drew up plans for the creation of the Illuminati and then entrusted Adam Weishaupt with its organization and development.

see what I mean? ;- )

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:02
Prometheus (@Jian Lu) ID#210235:
Most interesting post. Wish being a computer genius and proficient in artificial intelligence and cycles were enough to be right. Married to one who's there, but that don't make one a billionaire. On the other hand, it beats playing the lottery. The big problem, and it is BIG, is that every model for analyzing world markets is inadequate. AI isn't there yet. If it were, we'd be inviting you all to our private south pacific island for a big KITCO party!

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:00
Preacher (Rea Gold) ID#225273:

Rea Gold is still mining in South America. It is very
hard to get info but the company is actually listed on
NASDAQ Bulletin Board Pink Sheets under the symbol
REAGF. It actually traded on Feb. 2 at one mill per
share ( $.001 ) .
I'd like to know more myself.

The Preacher

Date: Mon Mar 09 1998 00:00
Preacher (Rea Gold) ID#225273:

Rea Gold is still mining in South America. It is very
hard to get info but the company is actually listed on
NASDAQ Bulletin Board Pink Sheets under the symbol
REAGF. It actually traded on Feb. 2 at one mill per
share ( $.001 ) .
I'd like to know more myself.

The Preacher

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