KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:59
Earl () ID#227238:
Sharefin: Taken from your afr link on Drudge and his report: ....raising issues for the web itself and the grey legal infrastructure rising around it.

The inference is of course that something will have to be done about web pages that scoop legitimate news sources. I think we can expect to read similiar sentiments expressed by many legitimate news agencies, as time and events proceed. And of course, since the politicoes will find themselves the butt of many of these stories, the news agencies will find many a sympathetic ear. ......... The power of the web will prove to be the power of people over their respective governments. .... and may it ever be thus.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:57
refer (Tolerant1) ID#41229:
All this slamming of Takillya, do you ever get to the worm; or isit Quervo only.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:56
sharefin (A profit in the pocket is worth?) ID#284255:
Goldbugs beware.
Gold stocks could well be burnt,
If we get a market crash.
And the markets start to look more shaky every day.

Recent profits could well disappear.
As these stocks once again,
Become excellent buys.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Email chatter:
~~~~~
Commentary
Everyone who owns shares in a gold stock should send a thank- you note to the President of the United States. With apologies to his wife, offer thanks for a job well done. Congratulate him on his alleged sexual
infidelities, welcome him to the club that includes many U.S. Presidents, a club chaired by none other than John F. Kennedy.

You see, as accusations of sexual impropriety are cried in the Nation's capital, William Jefferson Clinton may be the spark that renews the speculative fire. The twinkle in Bubba's eye proving to shine like the
North Star, giving gold speculators their directional beacon.

Today, the direction on gold was up. And we argue that the latest Washington scandal is a major factor for the move.

Here is how our argument goes:

The globe is in a bit of turmoil. With Saddam Hussein acting like the goof that he is and Asian economies suffering immensely as their house of cards comes tumbling down, there is widespread nervousness in equity markets. Traditionally, this would have people moving into gold.

Instead, fidgety market participants have been moving to the sanctity of the U.S. Bond Market. The U.S. Buck has become the planet's currency of choice. Huge capital inflows have inflated the U.S. bond market and taken yields down well below the 6% yield that has proved an emotional barrier for so long.

However, with the Presidential Sex Scandal taking centre stage, many are questioning the safety of the U.S. debt market. As legendary banker J.P. Morgan once said,

Bankers do not lend on assets, but rather, on character.

With the U.S. Bond Market showing a good deal of weakness today, perhaps many are questioning the stability of the U.S. dollar, judging it vicariously on the character of the American leader. Many perhaps realize that the threat of Clinton's impeachment threatens the stature of the American dollar as the globe's stable financial device. And so, our argument goes, money is moving out of U.S. dollar backed securities and into the traditional safe haven.

Gold.

Now, don't let us give you the impression that today marks the beginning of a bull market on gold as the activity today may very well be short lived.

One day does not a trend make.

However, it could be the start of a reawakening. You see, gold is truly a safe haven. It has more hard value than even the most stable of currencies, the U.S. dollar. Simply, the money is not worth the paper it is printed on if the market loses its confidence in it.

So, perhaps the accusations that surround Clinton are awakening the gold bugs. Perhaps nervous capital will move into gold and out of the U.S. Bond market. Since the TSE, VSE and ASE have a heavy weighting of gold stocks, they stand to benefit.

It is truly amazing how the secret desires of one man can affect so many others.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:55
Ron (in sack-o-tomatoes) ID#413195:
Earl: Who knows? You may be around 300 years from now: http://www.alcor.org .

Disclaimer: I have no connection whatever with Alcor. None. Zip. Nada.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:46
tolerant1 (oris) ID#31868:
For what it is worth you offered a moment of tranquility in your house.

You can only do your best, and then some and you did more.

Gulp, a shot of tequila, and another for your sense of what you think to be enough is enough and if that does not work try again. Optimism can never be turned back.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:44
Quixotic 1 (Looking for advice on buying Gold Coins !!) ID#176235:

Dear learned Kitcoites,
I have been a lurker at this legendary site for about six months now. I'm asking for your collective advice on investing in pre- 1933 Gold coins. I'm interested in $5 and $2 ½ Gold Indian coins. I'm very interested in this sites opinion on what grading to purchase. I am looking to diversify my physical gold holdings to include some Mint State Gold coins. What will retain its liquidity and value? What are typical buy/sell spreads ( % ) . I seem to be getting a run around from the coin dealers, they obviously want to sell their inventory. How much is a fair value relative to Coin World's pricing? I am looking to invest about 10K- 15K. Is it better to purchase more MS61 or less MS64 coins? Who are some of the more reputable MS quality dealers in these united States ? How will this investment hold up during stagflation vs. inflation? This site is a great resource. Keep up the great input. DOUBLE KUDOS to all. I spend way too much time at this site...gold is going up...life is grand.

Thank you GMJ

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:42
oris (Tzadeak) ID#239377:
I just wanted to help.
Thank you for your compliment.
Never again.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:40
aurator (myob......) ID#250121:
Earl, which is why I recalled the passage after so many years.

There was a SF story I read - - ahhem a while ago..true anarchic society invaded by Imperialist types- Where Take me to your leader command was met with baffled stares.

We have no leader. we have no capital. we have no money. we take care of ourselves. The invasion failed, the ultimate resistance was that each citizens abided by the simple accepted principle of good governance : Mind Your Own Business


Someone's gonna break into a song...


actually gonna do a dry dance - - - cricket still not started due to rain.





Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:37
sharefin (Weekend reading.) ID#284255:
Nick@C
Sounds like you've been swilling rum on your holidays?
Welcome back aboard.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANOTHER updated:
http://www.kitcomm.com/pub/discussion/ANOTHER4.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
White House in a bunker
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/world/world1.html

Drudge dredges up the dirt
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/world/world2.html

Neighbours show the difference a democracy makes
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/world/world4.html

Financial elk test may dash Italy's euro hopes
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/world/weurope.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:34
tolerant1 (223) ID#31868:
That which is truly of worth can only be sold to you on a higher or lower level by someone who knows nothing of your thoughts, or what is worth to you.

Worth is what you think it to be. I look down on he who stands in the sand.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:29
223 (Tolerent1 (and all)) ID#26669:
Such great wisdom, oh tolerent one, that I shall ponder as I retire to the long hammock, there to dream of bracelets of gold and great loaves of silver. Goodnight all. :- )

But I'll leave with one further riddle. Is it better to buy low or to sell high?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:26
Earl () ID#227238:
Auric: Thanks. Over a year ago, BB Fisher posted several great personal positions on the ultimate change in power balance between the individual and governments. The net effect of which was that govenments are now in a losing trend. Primarily because of the revolution in worldwide communication. ........ and governments cannot control it. I only wish I had another 30 years to view the proceedings. They are going to be far more interesting than the present day DC hog wallow.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:24
Nick@C (AHOY me golden mateys on the good ship GoldBull) ID#393224:
Yer've fired one tiny salvo broadside into the galleon USS Greenback and yer've already broken into the rum kegs and are swaggerin' 'round the deck with yer britches 'round yer ankles. The USS Greenback is a mighty galleon and will not go down without a fight!!

So mateys, stow the rum kegs, set the lookout, trim the mainsail, cock- up the stops...er...stop- up the cocks...er...oh never mind...the Pres has already done that!! Look lively laddies, hitch up yer britches, cutlasses high and PREPARE TO BOARD!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:20
tolerant1 (223) ID#31868:
Your words like your mathematics have too many definitions. I am a mutt and proud of the minds whose teeth beveled their bones.

Go to the city Y in what the new world calls the broken Russia, learn there and look to the mountains of my great uncle to the third and his mark was in gold and never refused and it was on what you might call vegetable or bark wrappings. Truth.

Bring me Another once again and the two of us shall speak of sand, rock and thought before metal made men trust what women in tents already understood but discarded due to men having no memory.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:18
6pak (Indonesia 202 million population @ 4 % Chinese (Wednesday New Year of the Tiger)) ID#335190:
January 24, 1998
Indonesian Chinese fear they'll be scapegoats in Year of the Tiger

JAKARTA, Indonesia ( AP ) ­ The Chinese New Year is a time of celebration almost everywhere Chinese live. But not in Indonesia, where the traditional dragon dances and fireworks have been banned for decades.

When the new year arrives Wednesday, the tiny Chinese community in the world's most populous Muslim nation will have even less to celebrate as the value of the currency plummets and prices and unemployment soar.

Chinese make up only 4 per cent of Indonesia's 202 million people, but are estimated to control 70 per cent of the economy. Many fear they'll be made scapegoats during 1998's Year of the Tiger if a spiraling economic crisis triggers violence.

Historians say many members of the ethnic Chinese minority were among the hundreds of thousands of people killed in the 1960s when mobs attacked suspected left- wing activists and sympathizers following a failed coup attempt, allegedly communist- inspired.

Earlier this month, dozens of Chinese buildings were attacked in East Java in a series of riots. Angry mobs accused Chinese store owners of using deteriorating economic conditions as an excuse to charge exorbitant prices for rice, cooking oil and other staples.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:14
223 (Haggis scratch Feigenbaum entirely.) ID#26669:
You don't use his number as |x| anyway. You use it as one of your constants if you use it at all.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:10
aurator (I remember ewe) ID#250121:
Éß my guess is Nick@C is dreaming up some kind of response to Dolly.

But actually Éß I wonder how much has really changed. Trumbo was discussing how empty a word like liberty is, yet how resounding it sounds within us. How careful must we be when we here the rousing calls of Patriots. These words Liberty, Patriotism, Right. evoke reflexive responses, and require a certain facility of thought to restore the balance. The word Communist also evokes strong reflexes in you folk too, about as strong as the same word does in Indonesia....

I believe that the most popular edition of Charles Mackay's Extraordinary Popular Delusions available up your way only contains selected chapters from his magnum opus. ( recipe please Mike Sheller? Any one? )

As that volume's URL was posted here a while ago, permit me to post The Guttenberg Project's Volume 2 containing chapters on both The Crusades and Witch Manias. Both of as much importance as the financial chapters..imho

http://www.ul.cs.cmu.edu/gutenberg/etext96/2ppdl10.txt

The lunatics are coming out of the wood- work- - screaming their sycophantic apocalyptic clap trap.

Steer a steady course! Oh Captain! Ignore the sirens screaming for attention, beckoning, beckoning, beckoning us toward jagged rocks. Ignore the Messiahs and the hags! Steer straight.. The millenium loonatics are coming out early, just to test the water...








Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:09
223 (Haggis) ID#26669:
Gee, Dewd, lemme think on 'dat a minute. O.k....Using my usual sloppy analogies:

In progaramming an iterative set where you repeatedly multiply real and imaginary parts of a complex number using floating decimal math operatives you can cheat by merely carrying over the i's and counting the i^2's as minus ones, begging the question. After n iterations you can separate which numbers on the real/imaginary plane are stable and which aren't stable...all without ever really knowing the answer. You just assume that the numbers which get to value greater than an arbitrary |x| will drop out of the iteration.

So if we assume gold is real, we don't have to know whether a particular currency is real or imaginary. Given enough iterations it will either stay stable...duh...I can't think of a damned one...or drop out like the 1930's Mark, the 1960's Cruzero, the 1970's Newcruzero, et cetera.

Damn. Let me think about this one for a while. How many iterations to go for the $US. This is important, 'cause normally hyperinflation leads to social revolution. You're either very smart, Haggis, or as intoxicated as I am.

If your're smart and not drunk, give me a hint about what is |x|...and don't cheat and say Feigenbaum's number. It doesn't work. I've tried it already... hmmm...unless I'm using the wrong multiplier.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 23:02
TZADEAK* (@ Caper..... Thanks for witnessing who shot first!) ID#370249:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:56
Haggis__A (back later.........farfel, the Euro, the Swiss.........) ID#398105:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:54
Haggis__A (farfel.........now I may have this wrong, but.........) ID#398105:

.....isn't Iceland half way between Greenland and Canada.

Surely, you are not trying to say that I am half like you ?!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:54
Auric (Kitco Has Never Been Better) ID#255151:

Earl- - Your 22:45 post is well said. I have printed a copy of it.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:52
tolerant1 (Barb Hugh - Silverbaron) ID#31868:
Followed the conversation this evening, well, it was evening here anyway.

A gulp to the both of you. Mis- understanding, headbutting, o'tayness, and civility.

When I grow up I hope may be allowed to carry on in such a manner as that which you respectfully displayed. Cheers.

Please remember, I just fell out of the tree, have learned mostly to walk upright ( laughing in backround from the leaves ) and constantly scrape my knuckles.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:51
MKVI (DFO'C vs my timing...) ID#347185:
Hello All.

Thanks for posting so much great info!!

Go DFO'C - I'm envious!

I'm hoping that the fine folks here will express an opinion or two
on whichever on- line trading co. might be best/whatever. I've been
pulling my hair out watching the world go by unable to get the $$$
flowing in the right direction - still feel like I'm a week away!:- (

Boy it is nice to know that I'm not totally off the deep end - thanks
Kitco!- Then again people thought I was somewhat of a radical before
I found this forum, now I don't know. What is it with everybody out
there Just the begining of this week I was showing someone I respect
all the fantastic economic info on the net and talking about what
I've felt was coming /is starting and PM's, etc. then he trots out the
newspaper and reads me some article about how gold has dropped xx% in
the last xyrs, x% in the last xmnths...tut- tut then he's ooohing and
aaahing over the graph of a stock he should have bought last year like
it would be a good investment now! I was ready to shake him!
I'm jogging in circles trying to put together some $$$ while I watch
PM's and related stocks taxying down the runway and he's looking at
what should have been bought _then_. It is getting pretty darn near
the end of GOLD's THEN. Where on that graph would you like to have
bought? - Take another look at these PM/related graphs...- turkey!!

What? Buy something when it's cheap But a low price means poor past
performance... It's not stock in 'Joes Bacon Emporium' - it's #$^% GOLD!

But then Sympathy for the Devil was on the radio and I unwound by
reading some funny jokes about Scottsmen and researching some great
tips!! ( and go GOLD - I'll get on board asap, or be smiling and waving
from the dock - not pretending there's no such ship )

Sorry for the rant.
Thanks for being out there!





Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:51
sharefin (13,500 billion already sold.) ID#284255:
Japanese cut their US assets weighting to 60% from 65% of foreign assets

Japanese exposure to US stocks more then 250,000 bln yen, down 5.4% in comparison to august; since then the market is flat; should the yen become more attractive more might be sold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Down 5.4% means that Japan has sold 13,500 billion yen's worth of shares since August.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quietly at the top when no one was looking.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:51
Earl () ID#227238:
Larryn: Good point on the SA, Rand,gold and dollar relation. Especially, the end result - the rand.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:49
Haggis__A (223...........) ID#398105:

In mathematics there are Complex Numbers, which have a real and an imaginary component.

In a complex situation, you will also have a real and an imaginary component.

The US$ is part of a complex situation - is it real or imaginary ?!

What is GOLD ?!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:48
sharefin (Beware the bear) ID#284255:
http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980124/business/stories/stocks_4.html
Clinton Scandal May Trigger Dow Pullback
I think we are extremely vulnerable to a 500- point drop if we get the wrong news coming out of Washington, Froehlich added.
Next Friday, Greenspan, along with Rubin and Deputy Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, will testify before a House Banking Committee on the impact of the Asian turmoil on the United States.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
U.S. OPTIONS FOCUS/Equity put activity heats up
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980123/u_s_option_2.html
In S& P 100 index ( .OEX ) options trading at Chicago Board Options Exchange, almost twice as many puts as calls had changed hands by the early afternoon, said Michael Schwartz
``The general feeling is that the bull market may have run out of steam,''
Call trading in individual equities is outstripping that of puts by just a 20 percent margin today, the lowest level in the past 12 months,

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:48
Caper (@kingoftheonelinershmmmmmmmm) ID#334174:
gotta go- will have one more before cuddle time ( maybe two ) . Thanks all
for the humour, wisdom & even self aggrandizement. Kitco is my life.
Well maybe three more drinks. Have to convince myself that the pending
gold bull will get my money back +. Nite all- even disgruntled soon to be
former C.B. ers- & that's Cape Bretenors- not Ctrl Bk'ers

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:48
panda (@) ID#30116:
This 'news' thing on ABC is reminiscent of the Iranian hostage 'crisis' news coverage that got Ted Koppel his career. If this keeps, tomorrow nights Globex and Asian trading should be interesting to say the least. Then again, there's always the Super Bowl... Go GOLD!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:45
TZADEAK* (@ Haggis.... PW looks like he wants to take SA down with him!) ID#370249:
Or at least that is what I perceive. I don't think it's going to happen
that soon, I believe it will take alot more time....However interesting isn't
it that PW is before a BLACK judge, and by the looks of things, is
not going quietly with just a small fine of about $200 as you know
who predicted here last month, but instead I hear he may spend time in jail with ordinary BLACKS! Oh my God! can you picture it!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:45
Earl (Scrolling up.) ID#227238:
Aurator: I do solemnly swear, that excerpt is as close to the way I view this world, as any formal presentation I have read in the past. The fight for liberty con is made marginally easier, precisely, by virtue of its recondite definition. I don't know that I have ever seen an objective and unassailable definition of the word. While a lovely word, evoking warm thoughts and emotions, ..... at least for the whole of my life, ...... it has been worked and reworked to the disadvantage of the citizen at large. Rather than allow the con to continue on the strength of word no one can define, perhaps it's time to change the terms of discussion by politely requesting of our masters that ...... we be left the hell alone. Perhaps that's as close we are likely to come to a working definition of the word liberty and the question before the court becomes unequivocal.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:45
6pak (Is this Inflation or Is it deflation @ Asia & Dollar Value) ID#335190:
January 24, 1998
Asia purchasing power plummets, import costs soar

SINGAPORE, Jan 25 ( Reuters ) - The currency crisis afflicting Southeast Asia and South Korea has severely eroded the region's dollar purchasing power.

The dollar is the medium of international trade for most goods, and from oil to wheat, metals to gold, Asia's import costs have gone through the roof.

Indonesia's dollar purchasing power, for example, has slumped more than 400 percent since the financial crisis began last July. It means that Indonesia now has to use four times as many rupiah for one dollar, compared with pre- crisis days.

The dollar value of copper has slumped more than 25 percent since the crisis began but even so, the cost for Indonesian importers has surged 389 percent, or almost four times.

Copper was valued in London on Friday at $1,739 per tonne. So one tonne of copper would cost an Indonesian importer 22.6 million rupiah.

The dollar price of another import - - sugar - - has fallen five percent since the crisis began. But for Indonesia, the price has rocketed more than 500 percent.

South Korea - - the biggest recipient of IMF funds to the tune of nearly $60 billion - - was the 11th biggest economy in the world before it was hit by the currency crisis. Its currency, the won, has plunged 97 percent in dollar purchasing terms.

South Korea imports all of its 2.5 million barrels of crude oil. Using benchmark Brent as the gauge, the same amount of oil in dollar terms now costs Korean importers 26,250 won per barrel. On July 1, it cost 15,830 won, despite a 20 percent fall in the dollar- value of crude.

In dollar purchasing terms, Thailand's baht has dropped 119 percent, the Philippine peso has fallen 69 percent and the Malaysian ringgit 80 percent.

A journey around Asia - - using petrol as the measure - - shows how the region's dollar purchasing power has collapsed since the crisis began in July. Assuming a petrol tank holding eight gallons ( about 36.5 litres ) and not taking account of changes in petrol domestic prices:

In Thailand's capital Bangkok, a litre of regular special grade petrol would cost 12.60 baht per litre and the eight- gallon tank would be 458 baht, or $8.51. In July last year the same tank of petrol would have been worth $17.68.

In Indonesia, a net exporter of oil, the government controls the price of petrol. With premium petrol in Jakarta at 700 rupiah per litre, a tank would cost 25,458 rupiah, or just $1.96. Before the crisis, the tank would have been $10.46.

In Manila, a tank of petrol would be 441.50 pesos, or $9.86. Commonly used premium gasoline would be 12.14 pesos per litre. Before the crisis the tank was worth $16.66.

At the pumps in Seoul, petrol would be 1,217 won per litre - - 44,260 won, or $25.29, for the tank. Before the crisis, the tank cost the equivalent of $52.56.

Asian countries now compete with the Middle East in dollar terms for providing some of the cheapest petrol in the world.

A tank of petrol in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia - - the world's biggest oil exporter - - costs 21.82 riyals, or $5.82. In neighbouring United Arab Emirates, it is $8. But these prices are still far more than in Iran - - another giant oil producer - - where a litre of gasoline sells for just five U.S. cents and a full tank costs $1.82.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:44
223 (Vronsky: thoughts on bankers.) ID#26669:
I like the Orthodox Jewish & Fundamentalist Islamic slant on bankers. The ancient belief was that money lenders should only lend for a portion of business profits. No profits equals no payments. Interest was ( and still is for a minority of religious persons ) looked upon as one of the most sinful of business practices. Gives the bastards a lot less power, IMHO. Another ancient custom was the year of 'Jubilee' where all debts were canceled.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:43
tolerant1 (HAGGIS_A) ID#31868:
Here I go running past your laundry line smeering them with a leg of lamb and you get all logical.

Aye, agreed. Gulp, a shot of tequila to ya..

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:39
EB (Aurator.....) ID#22956:
Mate, g'day. Thanks for the recent posts. That was good stuff from Dalton Trumbo. What an entirely crazy time in our history that was. And you think we are bad now....just keep looking back at all the mistakes we've made, but I don't need to tell you that. YIKES! It pains me sometimes...but then I swallow a shot- o- Cazadores with Tol1 and it's all better....yum, yum. I never new I lived in such a crummy place anyway. You got any room in the barn I don't mind cow farts too much. They can't be as bad as mine after knocking back a case of tinnies with you. We'll invite Nick@C ( where is he? ) and Sharefin...do you think the scotty would show up if we asked him? Throw some shrimpies on the barbie ( I know.....you are NZ ) .

away...to light the oak ( red )

ÉßßQïn

go gold...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:38
Haggis__A (tolerant1...............) ID#398105:

I think that you would find that Clinton, Blair, Thatcher...... all have the same political Masters !

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:37
TZADEAK* (@ oris... You can follow Dizzy blindly, that is your right! ) ID#370249:
But I unlike you invest my money after fully studying a situation
and doing due dilligence wich means getting the facts only the facts.
I have told you in the past that my sources are SOUTH AFRICAN!!!!

I think you are telling us that Dizzy is the one and only one allowed here
at Kitco to give his views on SA? and that his word is wholy truth and sacred?

Please say it aint so ! because the last time I looked this was NOT a communist or totalatarian forum, where one follows a self appointed guru who had been recomending DROOY now only at 65% loss since last year, IMHO it is for a FREE exchange of ideas and facts relating to GOLD.





Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:36
tolerant1 (Caper) ID#31868:
Hopefully you are Batman's Butler from Gotham. I agree that the fur should fly, that is what a forum is.

Out of respect to Bart, I think that gold will go up or down.

Get Camdesuss!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:32
Caper (@referee & fer da record) ID#334174:
Disney shot first & continues to rat- a- tat- tat. Sorry to say ( but I'm
sayin' it anyhoo. Tzadeak's somewhat irritating manner i.e. you heard
it from me first, self aggrandizing manner seemingly has provoked our
SA compatriot. Continue Tzadeak, enjoy ur posts & am able to enjoy yourr
outspokeness ( is that a word ) This is what this forum is all about!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:31
tolerant1 (Hmmmm) ID#31868:
Ickes, a relative of the traitor FDR, dirtbag thru and thru..

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:30
Dolly (There'll always be another ewe.) ID#270112:

Are they cloning sheep in New Zealand?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:30
farfel (@HAGGIS...NOW IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO COME OUT, MATE...) ID#28585:
The rumor I heard is that you are actually Icelandic...but just enjoy wearing a kilt...true or not?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:27
refer (All What started the crisis, or the confidence loss in Asia) ID#41229:
Has anyone came up with the the match that let the asian finicial fuse?

I seem reading somewhere that some speculator shorted Indonesia's currency, is this correct?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:26
vronsky (http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_98/hein012698.html) ID#426220:

THE MAGIC PEN by Dr. Paul Hein

Bankers own the earth... Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back.

In recent years, bankers have bought the Orient. BankAmerica's share was 16 billion. J.P. Morgan kicked in 23 billion, Chase Manhattan 32 billion, and Citicorp 60 billion.

Dr. Hein paints the financial absurdity of what is transpiring in the Far- East today. To read his thought- provoking essay go to the above URL.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:25
STUDIO.R (@All....) ID#93232:
Mr. Drudge on ABC....carving Clinton into bite size pieces...he's a goner.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:24
Rob (Wolanchuck) ID#410114:
JTF

Wolanchuck is a market timer currently rated #1 for the past few years.

He is VERY good trading the stock and bond markets. He is not very good trading gold.

He is currently very long the SP 500 futures , spread on bonds , and long a ton of gold and silver.

His service is aprox $6000/yr ( it don't subscribe ) . He loves the fear that asia is causing and believes that the debt problem will be inflated away. Since he thinks thaat the debt problem will be inflated away, he is very bullish on Japan and some other Asian markets. He predicts inflation not deflation is in the cards. He really like the canadian resource shares.

He says that if gold breaks down on Monday, BUY IT!

On the gold front, I would listen to RJ or Glenn before Wolanchuck.

For stocks and bonds Wolanchuck only.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:24
Haggis__A (farfel..............good on ya Mate !!!) ID#398105:

That MUST have been very painful - coming out !?

At least you have got something going for you ?

Good on ya !

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:23
Auric (There'll never be another U.) ID#255151:

aUratoriUs™- - Ya got sharp eyes, mate.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:22
James (Haggis) ID#252150:
Thanks for the RB site. It's bookmarked. BBL

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:21
Haggis__A (John Disney and Tzadeak......... Old P W ...........) ID#398105:

Unrepentant Former SA Pres. PW Botha SA is on edge of abyss.

I saw Old PW Botha on the news last night. First time that I had seen him for 10 years. He was not the PW of old - confident and with it. Last night, he was not a happy chappie ?


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:20
farfel (@HAGGIS...I HAVE SOME BAD NEWS FOR YOU....) ID#28585:
I hate to break it to you...but I am actually a CANADIAN who just happens to live in America. I suppose I am somewhat Americanized...and certainly I have a great deal of fondness for Americans. ( Hell, I married one! ) .

Incidentally, I was unable to access your last post. You must use some kind of esoteric, encrypted site or something.

P.S. I have some Pegasus stock I can sell to you ( dirt cheap ) ...are you interested?

P.P.S. I'm still headed for Sydney someday...and as per my earlier promise, I will drink you under the table.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:20
oris (Sorry, misterous=mysterious) ID#239377:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:20
tolerant1 (Hmmmmmmm) ID#31868:
Take WJC and KS out and have them both shot for treason and a fabulous waste of money to the taxpayer. Machietolerant.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:17
aurator (Don't know much about history, don't know much about Geography, don't know much of the Science I too) ID#250121:

Hi aric™.
Don't know squat about superbowl, 2nd final S Africa v Australia delayed due to rain... that's an emergency...



As long as we're remembering anniversaries like 150 years since the first California find perhaps we should mark January 31 1998 in the Gold Bugs Calendar. The centenary of the death of bimetallism....



From Gold! Gold! Gold! - The Johannesburg Gold Rush Eric Rosenthal


After a record electioneering tour, covering more than 13,000 miles, during which he spoke more than 600,000 words, William Jennings Bryan came to the polls on November 3, 1896. With 7,123,230 votes, and by a majority of over a million, William McKinley became President.
Refusing even then to give up the fight, the champions of “free silver” secured the passing of a bill on March 3 1897, for holding an international monetary conference. McKinley himself, at his inauguration, while recommending a revision of the coinage laws, tried not to antagonise the still powerful Silver party too much. Indeed a resolution in favour of free silver, adopted by the Senate, was not finally rejected by the House of Representatives until January 31, 1898. An unexpected revival of hope amount the bimetallists occurred in August 1897 when the Bank of England agreed, at the request of the United States, to hold one- fifth of its reserves in silver, provided - and there lay the snag- - - that France acted likewise and that the price of the metal remained advantageous. There was no question of the substitution of silver for gold. Senator Wolcott, who had crossed the Atlantic with the aim of spreading the gospel of the Western producers, had a most disappointing reception.

“The failure of the Wolcott Commission” wrote the great British editor, W.T. Stead, “to induce Europe to cooperate with the United States in the artificial rehabilitation of silver has had the inevitable result of sharpening the division between the gold and silver men in the United States. As long as there was a chance, however remote, of international bimetallism, the President, and the Republican party behind him, could ‘straddle’ the currency question....Today, however, President McKinley had decided that he will live under King Gold and has made a speech to that effect in New York..”

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:17
oris (Tzadeak: your post 19:03) ID#239377:
Tzadeak, it's probably difficult to trace now who started
and how it all happened. I think it would be nice to
consider money that was made in a process as a primarily
evalution of success.

You may not agree but John Disney knows RSA mines better
than we do ( you included ) , and you probably know your
area better than John Disney. When money talks, politics
shuts down. It would be nice in general to leave
each other's area of knowledge to each other...

John Disney is a very valuable source of info regarding
that misterious RSA, you do your part, I do my part,
let's be happy and be pros.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:16
Haggis__A (farfel - G'Day Mate, stop thinking like a .........) ID#398105:

The Euro, what do you think?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:12
Haggis__A (James....try again: ) ID#398105:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/3294/

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:05
Haggis__A (James.............the day is young !!!!!!) ID#398105:

Aye, it's Haggis time ..................

http://tqd.advanced.org/3247/cgi- bin/dispover.cgi?frame= none& poet= burns.robert

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:01
STUDIO.R (@A.Goose...One of these days...I'll get it right....Sorry) ID#93232:
http://www.usagold.com

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:01
Auric (Big Thinker) ID#255151:

Good Super Bowl Eve to all fellow Kitcoites!
It looks like there has been a big shift in
the political and econonomic arenas in the
last week, eh? Got me two new puppies last
week. They are the offspring of a Golden
Retriever/Lab mother and a Lab/Hound father.
I have named them Ranger and Penney. Also, I
think that DFO'C will win the award for the
poster with the best timing for investing in
Gold- - see today's 18:28 post. ( Hi arator,
Earl, cherokee )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:01
James (Haggis@&@All@Scots) ID#252150:
And those that wish they were. Happy Robbie Burns Day ( 239 ) . I would imagine that you have had a few drams by now. I'll have my annual bowl of oatmeal tomorrow morn.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 22:01
Haggis__A (farfel............it's a smoke screen..............) ID#398105:

I would suggest that the Swiss are not going to sell gold:

http://soilandhealth.org/03sovereigntylibrary/0301investlibrary/030101jml/030103jmlbkch1.html

If you want, or indeed have to, obtain something - what do you do?

In the case of gold and the Euro - create a market that is cheap, and buy. When the Euro comes into being, it is then backed by what you then have - GOLD.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:59
tolerant1 (Hmmmmm) ID#31868:
FarfelHaggissanougen; C'mon on now, let it rest.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:58
panda (@!!!) ID#30116:
Uh OH! Rumors of resignation on the ten o'clock news!!!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:56
STUDIO.R (@a.goose...) ID#93232:
Kosares at http://www.usagold has chased the Rubin thread for some time. His current market report discusses it.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:55
farfel (@HAGGIS...YOU STILL CRACK ME UP ....) ID#28585:
Haggis, I guess your central thesis is that politicians and bureaucrats are wank while Americans are septic tank, correct?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:55
TZADEAK* (@ larryn.. Unrepentant Former SA Pres. PW BothaSA is on edge of abyss) ID#370249:
Larryn it's not my political belief., I am a former SA investor, I just
don't belive Big Gold Money will invest in SA for what ever reason
and the NA mines will continue to outpreform SA as Gold moves up.

But don't take my word for it here is PW himself!
http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/news.html#pw

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:53
tolerant1 (A.Goose) ID#31868:
When he resigns it will become a fact. Until then, you know the rest.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:52
Haggis__A (farfel.............. intellectual masturbatory pursposes) ID#398105:

Well, given that most Politicians and Bureaucrats are Wank..s :

yes ?!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:49
A.Goose () ID#20137:
Excuse me is there talk about Rubin resigning or is this just a BIG rumor?

Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 19:31
DEJ ( LGB and Clinton ) ID#269191:

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:48
Haggis__A (Isure............aye, you have got a point..........) ID#398105:

What ever happened to the Pioneer Spirit

Throw out the Environmental luxury laws, and head north to Alaska - GOLD.

Apollo- Sitka, Circle District, Golden Zone, Greens Creek, Hayes Glacier, Kodiak Island, Brooks Range, Seward Peninsula, Kenai Peninsular, Chugach Mountains, and others - all GOLD areas in Alaska.

The Geology of Alaska,
edited by Plafker and Berg,
ISBN 0 8137 5219 1

Aye, Haggis

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:47
farfel (@HAGGIS..DR. TLAGA IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT RE: GOLD BACKING EURO!!) ID#28585:
As I tried to tell you many weeks ago, there have been a recent spate of macro- economic analyses originating at government think tanks concerning the effects of a gold- backed EURO on the American dollar. The government is obviously concerned...are we to believe they are looking into this whole issue simply for intellectual masturbatory purspose

The central question a rational, analytical person must ask is this: if Switzerland were thinking seriously of selling half its gold reserves in 1999, then why would they announce it to the entire world two years in advance of the purported date of sale, knowing full well that such an announcement would trash the value of their huge gold reserves? Such a strategy makes absolutely no sense at all if the intent is to sell the gold at its highest price.

THE ONLY REALISTIC ANSWER : Switzerland was trying to frighten the gold market so that it could accumulate at much lower prices. My suspicion ( based upon recent revelations of gold hoarding by Germany ) is that Switzerland is acting as a purchasing proxy for Germany...just as they acted as sales proxy for Germany during WWII.

The more things change, the more they remain the same!!


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:45
tolerant1 (HAGGIS_A) ID#31868:
I fully realize the pain I shall recieve, just could not stop myself.

A shot of tequila at ya, gulp, one more, gulp.

I deserve the response I get. No insult intended, coursin the british ain't part of that apology which I send your way. Aye.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:44
223 (Haggis' links) ID#26669:
I think that the statement currency overvaluation episode should not last very long from your first link, Haggis, about sums it up don't you think? I suspect that like all pendulums this one too will swing. Looking in my retrospectroscope I wish I'd bought more gold when it was cheaper.

Remember though, that Murphy was an optomist! Not only will anything which can go wrong do so, given a universe of possible wrong alternatives the most wrong one is the most probable. So that damned pendulum might hang there until we all go broke! IMHO

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:42
larryn__A (South African stocks) ID#318140:
TZADEAK, DISNEY...

One reason that the SA stocks have fallen so much in the past year is the slide of the rand, which numerically decreases the value of such stocks in dollars. As gold went down, the rand followed. When this reverses, when the dollar tanks, and as gold goes up, the rand will appreciate and SA stocks will appreciate by a multiple of NA stocks. The last major gold recovery 1993 is a great example.

By the way, I like to buy stocks which are near their lows. Just because a stock has already fallen certainly doesn't make it a bad investment at this price. All other things being equal, I consider it a better buy.

Since the beginning of the year ASA has walked off and left other gold funds, and happens to be 95% SA stocks.

I think TZADEAK's political ideology is getting in the way. Somehow I believe the guy who lives there.

http://www.eaglewing.com/compare.htm

Check the 3 week column.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:42
STUDIO.R (@6pak....) ID#93232:
A remarkable essay by Chief Tecumseh of the Shawnee Nation. I have read volumes of words that have said far less. The newer Shawnee Nation is only thirty miles from where I sit. Our indie record co. just released a presentation of Kiowa flute music, chants, stories, etc...remarkable also.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:41
tolerant1 (HAGGIS_A 21:37 your post) ID#31868:
Blair is scum and royalty belongs with their images on plates or in tv guide, other than that, I hope an english woman chases the un- cooked portion of the chain of anatomy for which you are named with a sharp fork to provide a sense of air where you seam to be stuffy.



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:37
Haggis__A (223.....what is the point of enhancing an englishman ) ID#398105:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:36
Haggis__A (CUT AND PASTE URLs'.....Haggis__A (Gentlemen, what do you think )) ID#398105:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:33
Digdeep (6pak) ID#267276:
Thanks for your return post. I respect all religions if they are for the good of man. I dont have any knowledge of your First Nations, but would be interested in learning about it. I am a great fan of the work Joseph Cambell did studying all religions. The problem with religions is they are administered by humans like ourselves and therefore will always have imperfections, sometimes to the extream. I have been watching the pope on TV and he is speaking just the opposite of how Castro governs and may ignite the courage of the people to stand up for their freedom and that would be great. Thanks again.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:26
223 (Haggis re sheep:) ID#26669:
As evidenced by my observatons of my many Scots- Welsh, Scots- Irish, Scots- Cherokee and Scots- Creek relations ( we are all mongrels here in the US ) Scots are a tumultuous, fractious and fecund people. But I've never met any Scots- Ovines. So its probable that he was raising the sheep for export to England. ( % ^ )


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:26
Haggis__A (Gentlemen, what do you think ) ID#398105:

Gentlemen,

Have you been had.............. Dr Tlaga seems to think that you have ?!

http://www.gold- eagle.com/editorials/Tlaga001.html

http://www.gold- eagle.com/editorials/Tlaga002.html

http://www.gold- eagle.com/editorials/Tlaga003.html

After reading these articles, I tend to think that the Euro will be principally backed by
GOLD.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:24
aurator (Great Writers of North America-- Salute to Dalton Trumbo---) ID#250121:

Earl:

a couple of days ago you were conversing with mozel about war and fighting, I was reminded of a passage in “Johnny Got his Gun” by Dalton Trumbo I read over 20 years ago. I thought I would be able to find the passage on the net. Instead I tripped over dozens of sites about the McCarthy period and Trumbo’s blacklisting

- - - - - - - - - The Land of The Free Ha Ha Ha

....a merry sketch of irony, blasphemy and goldbuggery.....Part 2.....

House Committee on UnAmerican Activities....
http://www.levity.com/corduroy/trumbo.htm

*******

And I couldn’t find the passage then. I went over my old note books, ( analog so it took a while ) and found the passage I recalled.
I post now, because of 6- Packs reference to that ignoble McCarthy era in his recent post




From Johnny Got his Gun
by Dalton Trumbo

“When armies begin to move, and flags wave and slogans pop- up, watch out little guy, because it’s somebody else’s chestnuts in the fire, not yours. It’s words your fighting for and you’re not making an honest deal - your life for something better. You’re being noble and after you’re killed, the thing you traded your life for won’t do you any good and chances are it won’t do anyone any good either....

“you can always hear the people who are willing to sacrifice someone else’s life. They’re plenty load and they talk all the time. You can find them in churches & schools & newspapers and legislatures & congress. That’s their business. They sound wonderful.. “Death before dishonour”. “This ground sanctified by blood.” “These men who died so gloriously.” “They shall not have died in vain.”- - -

Somebody said, let’s go out and fight for liberty, and so they went out and got killed without once thinking about liberty. And what kind of liberty were they fighting for anyway? Were they fighting for the liberty of eating free ice- cream cones for the rest of their lives or for the liberty of robbing anybody they pleased whenever they wanted to or what? You tell a man he can’t rob and you take away some of his liberty. You’ve got to. What the hell does liberty mean anyhow? It’s just a word like house or table. Only it’s a special kind of word. A guy says house and he can point to a house and prove it. But a guy says come one let’s fight for liberty and he can’t show you liberty. He can’t prove this thing he’s talking about so how in the hell can he be telling you to fight for it?”

********


make no mistake, we're all in this together...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:23
JTF (Logging off -- must get back to chores) ID#57232:
6pak: Read your post to aurator - Very disturbing comments, but unfortunately too close to the money for comfort. Creeping growth of government control is beginning to threaten all of us. Happened to Greece - - the cradle of Democracy - - happened to Rome.

And - - I am not optimistic that any future presidents we might have available in the wings will change anything about the process. If the changes in government control were sudden, the American people would rise up and correct the problem. But if the process is very slow - - it is like slow cooking the frog - - the frog does not know any better and is not able to jump out before it is too late.

Lets hope we are wrong. Here's to the future, and survival of the Human spirit.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:18
Isure (Forget about technicals) ID#368244:

Interest in gold is soaring. Check out the chats, gold is a part of every conversation.

If Clinton goes down, and it looks like he will a $9.00 jump might prove small. Couple that with the Mid East situation, and the plot thickens.

Smart money likes these odds for a quick buck , couple this with a suspected short sgueeze, a dollar that is sure to come down more, and you have all the makings of one heck of a good play.

In my humble opion anyway, take this and a dollar and get a cup of coffee most any place.

Haggis, you better take it easy, us americans might all be in bread lines . Then think of how lonely your gonna be.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:18
IDT (capital movements) ID#228128:
D.A. great post. Just wanted to add one thing. Capital continues to flow from Europe to the U.S. bond market due to uncertainty over the Euro. It looks like this flow may continue for some time and continue to strengthen the U.S. Dollar.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:17
6pak (Earl & Digdeep @ Thanks for the comments.) ID#335190:
Earl: Thanks for the comments, re: History. No Frank Church did not write the material posted to- day, it was researched via, five different books.

I do not know a Frank Church. Thanks again, Take Care.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Digdeep: Your comments Go Pope, have been wasted, if directed towards me. I support the First Nations Spirituality. I have no use for main street religion. History, has shown exactly what an informed citizen would/could expect to see in 1998, having examined the actions of religion in Canada & the USofA, since North America was discovery by Europeans. Religion, has not got a history/record, that an informed person could support. Yes, I know, I will go to HELL.

Sorry, I do not wish to offend. Take Care.

Chief Tecumseh, Shawnee Nation
So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none. When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living.
If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:17
223 (DROOY more conjectures and ponderings) ID#26669:
IDT, Dr. bob, Mr. Disney and all: First, I don't think the free fall in DROOY took place at the end of the year. The chart I've been following is a logarithmic one which tends to make the moves at the bottom look bigger. Even so you'll see a very gentle and long bottom for most of the last 2 months. Frankly, it looks boring compared to many PM charts during this timeframe. ( Bart, are we still allowed to post links to stock quotes? I don't like stealing copyrighted material so I'll risk it until you say not. )

http://www.stockmaster.com/sm/g/D/DROOY.html

Steve Kaplan among others has been warning us that SA PM stocks were undervalued compared to NA PM stocks for the year that I've been following him. I think that the oversold condition must have occurred before last summer as evidenced by the DROOY's gentle response to the July panic. Just compare it to your favorite NA goldstock to see what I mean.

But I'm still puzzled by and have seen no reasonable answer to the huge volume occuring with gentle price changes. If it were true that there were lots of tax sales occuring, then who was buying? Were the buyers wise money who'd already sold and were anticipating a sharp January rise? If so, when did they sell, as the volume for much of the rest of the year is ho- hum. Were they new money, buying in? Maybe so. Thats when I bought in, myself. Were they just fund managers starting to load up? That sounds logical considering 100,000 shares of DROOY cost in the same magnitude as 1000 shares of an overpriced high tech stock. Or did 2 weeks ago.

I realize this sounds like ramblings, but my expectations about this stocks behaviour have all been jolted. I need to know more about the technical reasons for its sudden rise, so as to be better able to judge what the future might hold. I'm left with 16 months in my long term buy and hold plan with no clue as to what comes next. This dog has suddenly become a wolf tugging at its chain!

HHHEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:13
STUDIO.R (@Earl...) ID#93232:
I have asked my brother- in- law, M. Samis, that question. He serves as a member of the Fed. Reserve Board of Kansas City. I am hopeful to learn this soon as he has indicated that he will inquire.
I suppose the U.S. has been buying because of two events: 1. The Argentines announced that they sold their gold for U.S. Treasuries. This could have been handled through a bullion bank....gold for T- Bills on one side of the trade and dollars for the T- Bills on the other side...but Why have a middle man's expense? 2. A top- level Fed banking official in London two months ago announced that the Smart central banks of the world should sell now before the POG falls further. This is a buyer talking...not a seller. Why would you slam the POG if you owned more of it than anybody?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:11
tolerant1 (aurator) ID#31868:
In response to the final question of your 19:19 post. Hmmmmmm.

This is no small matter of thought to ponder.

However I think the answer is in those famous papers from those wacky kids a couple of hundred years and change ago. Something like, I am no scholar, like I have to tell you that, but;

We the People are supposed to rebel against tyranny, if that tyranny is the scythe of an elected government gone awry and hangs over the neck of the We the People, so be it, the government must be given back to the We the People folks.

The vote, the Constitutional laws should address all these thoughts prior to any act of violence, that is my, me, personal opinion, on an intellectual level from a monkey that fell from the tree and now walks upright, okay, I try.

Given that the government becomes oppressive;

I will run into the open and draw their fire, so that you might draw the sights of your weapons on them and kill the bastards.

Yeah, I am comfortable with that.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:11
LSteve (@DA) ID#318321:
DA,

Great post!! I wonder if that is why I'm getting 4 or 5 offers per week to refinance my house at 125% of its value?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:10
TZADEAK* (@ JTF ....) ID#370249:
I completely agree, I think this is signs of PANIC on the Asia Glitch.
Germany has reportedly the largest exposure to SE Asian Banks.
There is also a similar story out of BOJ I am trying to locate, which
all leads me to conclude that foreigners see BIG trouble getting US$ out of congress why with this BJ Clinton Monicagate and what is yet to
come ,no wonder they seem panicked, US contributes a rather large disproportional amount something like 25% to the said IMF Bail- out,
which at this time does NOT look like it's going to pass Congress and
does NOT look like it's going to benearlyenough to solve said Glitch.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:07
farfel (TITANIC MOVIE ARRIVING IN EUROPE TO BOXOFFICE RECORD CROWDS!!) ID#28585:
Various psychologists might wish to ponder whether the arrival of the hugely successful movie, TITANIC, on American screens in late '97 created a significant psychological disturbance/shift in the mainstream bullishness of America. Why? Simply because the movie featured one salient notion: just when everything seems wonderful and serene, you can suddenly strike an iceberg and all is suddenly lost!

Now, TITANIC has just arrived in Europe and is setting boxoffice records right and left. Will it create or inspire the same type of mass unease as transpired here in America? And if so, will we soon see the same type of major setback to European currencies, equities, and bonds? Moreover, will such negative developments simply hasten the rush into GOLD investments?

It remains to be seen.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:06
JTF (SDRer, where are you?) ID#57232:
SDRer: Please have a look at TZADEAK's post about Germany's Kinkel calling for a ( n ) ( emergency? ) G7 conference. Sounds like panic time to me - - anything new about an imminent world financial crisis?

I sense the every man for himself mentality in this post - - and China may still be months from a devaluation. There must be something else. Perhaps BC's future is known among highlevel circles in Europe, or perhaps the EURO is not looking good at all.

We are mushrooms aren't we - - and it is not just gold this time, I think.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 21:04
panda (@@) ID#30116:
One thing I can take solace in, the only people worse at predicting the future trend of something, other than my abilities to predict gold movements, is the weather people... :- )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:57
Barb Hughes (@Silverbaron) ID#20783:
Here's to us ALL making bucks and/or preserving them!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:57
Haggis__A (JTF......cloning........) ID#398105:

You must remember that it is a Scotsman in Edinburgh who has been cloning Dolly the sheep.

If Scotman are to start cloning themselves, heaven help the world ?!

Now America, on the other hand, is a melting pot of cultures and people.........lets just leave it like that ?!?!

Aye, Haggis

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:56
Earl () ID#227238:
Studio R: Can we assume that monetary rep's in the US do, indeed, have the presence of mind to actually aquire gold? It would be a watershed event, not necessarily for the gold market, but for the continued existence of America, if true.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:55
JTF (G7 meeting more like damage control I think) ID#57232:
TSADEAK: Interesting post. Sounds like Germany is more interested in getting info about what is about to happen, than in bailing out SEAsia. If the spare cash is going toward gold purchases, how much will be available for the IMF? Are we at the everyman for himself on the Titanic stage? Could be!

I would have said that I was concerned about bailing out SEAsia regardless of the real reason for the meeting. The post you got sounds like unreasoned panic - - if it is truly how the German CB is behaving.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:48
Silverbaron (Barb Hughes) ID#288295:

Perhaps my memory failed me, or maybe I was thinking in terms of today's dollars vs those of 20 yrs ago - if I come upon my source material I'll post it to you. In any case, I defer to your expertise - I'm not a collector - just a guy trying to make a buck.

Thanx!


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:48
Hedgehog (SDRer_A do you concur) ID#39845:
SOUTH KOREA SOUTH KOREA SOUTH KOREA have the Aussies gold. Therefore
one can hypothesize that they got a warning and the dumb Aussies
just blindly took orders. This is OMO.

EB re your Bong. Is it hand beaten copper? If so I got one just
like it. Turned it from hooka to bong. Took the tubes off and
put a shotty in the side. Only problem is its a weighty proposition.

web.mit.edu/krugman/www/DISINTER.html
www.savers.org/heritage/libtary/categories/trade/bg113.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:46
JTF (Hop into a bag with a Rabid ferret?) ID#57232:
Haggis: Now I know why you are so scrappy! Now, just how many times do you need to hop into that bag to get the right scrappiness?

Can we clone you and scatter your clones over the USA? Would be excellent revival ( survival? ) therapy! We need a kick in the seat of our pants to get going in the right direction again.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:46
The Hatt (How can anyone not take this ponzi game seriously?) ID#294232:
A repeat of 1929 is looming and the poor are about to be fleeced of their life savings. No prisoners this time, the young who were lead to believe that averaging into the almighty mutual fund would lead to happy retirement, the old who were told not to hold cash and to put their life savings in the hands of a money manager and last but not least the boomers who were told forget about social security as there would be no money left to support them through retirement. The sheep have been lead onto the killing grounds and the hungry wolves are about to feast. Do I like what I see, hell no, do I see it, HELL YES. Why have the masses been duped for the second time in 69 years? The outcome will be horrendous and I like many on this site have tried to warn the sheep that hungry wolves love to kill sheep. If you want to cast stones at anyone cast them at these supposed experts who take ma and pas money and dump it into a bear market in progress. I would like to see full disclosure on where these fund managers have their money. I say stand up you bastards and prove that your convictions regarding investing into this paper jungle is strong enough to put your savings on the line! Would a report such as this help to get the sheeps attention?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:46
Haggis__A (quion97........the DIFFERENCE between a Scotsman and an englishman...) ID#398105:

With respect..........

The doctor was most likely Scots...

Scotsmen drink excellent Scotch.........englishmen drink gin...

Scotsmen smoke the finest Havanas...

Scotsmen always chase WILD women...

It was a Scotsmen, J S MacArthur a metallurgical chemist in Glasgow Scotland, who in 1887 first patented the cyanidation recovery of gold....... so essentially that is why you can buy gold today .

WHY THE HELL DO YOU WANT TO LIVE .....because I am a Scot, and I drink, smoke, have a good time, and in my case FIND GOLD OREBODIES.

Have a nice day.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:45
TZADEAK* (@ Germany asks for Urgent G7 Meeting RE Asia.) ID#370249:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980124/markets_as_1.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:39
Earl () ID#227238:
6 pak: You continue to be the house historian of record. Your presence and material posted serves as a constant reminder that what we have been told is not necessarily the way it was ........ and gives lie to what is. Good stuff. ...... Did Frank Church actually write that piece? Should have paid more attention when he was still around.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:39
Digdeep (6pak) ID#267276:
There were many times in history that religion was used as a tool of fear, usually on uneducated people but not always. However today just the opposite is happening in Cuba. The Pope is rallying the people to stand up for individual rights and freedom right in castro's face. Go Pope !

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:39
STUDIO.R (@farfel...) ID#93232:
Very strong post @20:12. Trading 300 strong U.S. dollars for one ounce of Austrian- held gold, for example, is making our country stronger. If the Reserve is buying Argentinian, Australian gold with their green paper, they are making us stronger. There should be little doubt that this is patriotic.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:35
TZADEAK* (@ War over 26 ft of border- China and Viet Nam?) ID#372344:
I recently noticed that many American Congressmen lately have been very staunch supporters of Viet Nam seeking much closer ties and economic help could this be the reason? http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news100o.htm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:34
JTF (Reasons for the equities Market to go down/up (please add comments)) ID#57232:
Reasons for Bear equities market:

1 ) Continued financail crises all over the world, with mounting derivatives losses. Spread of crises to Europe and South America likely.

2 ) Monicagate - - bearish for dollar, bullish for gold

3 ) IMF financial panic in Congress. The Democrats are calling wolf, causing panic about impending doom from an imploding SEAsia if the IMF bailout is not funded. Only 18 billion needed? Little do they realize that by calling attention to the SEAsian crisis they will hasten the bear market that they fear.

4 ) Failure of IMF to turn around a single SEAsian country after about 100 billion infused. What will the 18 billion from item 3 above accomplish?

Reasons for US Equities market to go up:

1 ) Higher profits for companies with cheap overseas factories in SEAsia ( if the factories still operate )

2 ) Flight to safety due to more falling currency dominoes. ( Only if Monica gate fails to materialize ) .

3 ) Baby Boomer euphoria ( Many may not have learned about SEAsia, but all have learned about Monicagate. Impeachment the topic of the last three days ) .

4 ) Please add any other reasons for a market bull.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:31
sam (Al) ID#286234:
My local coin shop has boxes of loose non- numismatic silver dollars. The coins are priced for sale one at a time. I don't know about Morgan Dollars but if you find it in the junk coin box you can be sure it's numismatic premium is nil. They give me a substantial discount if I buy twenty of them, but then I'm a regular customer. Coin shops have coin counting machines. In the past I have been able to buy $200 worth of junk dimes for instance. You may have to call around until you find some one that has an open bag.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:29
Haggis__A (European Currency................and our cousin the Dollar..........) ID#398105:

Last week The Telegraph Newspaer in the UK contained an article concerning Germany hoarding gold, in case the Euro failed. Then another article stated that France and Italy were also hoarding gold.

Given that the Brits have, at his time, not joined in the Euro party, are they too hoarding gold - yes I think.

Stories abound that the Euro will flop and be a weak currency. Will it be backed by the US Dollar and/or gold.

Why on earth would the Europeans want the mainstay backing to be the US Dollar ? Given what Wall Street has done to the Asian currencies, why woul the Europeans want a repeat performance in the future?!

Gold, Gold, Gold .......... after all, you can always get counterfiet US Dollars from Russia !!

I suppose if the US Dollar asked the Euro nicely, some support would be forthcoming. We must always look after our American cousins, and our Special Relationship !!

Aye, Haggis

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:29
quion97 (to HAGGIS A story for u) ID#23398:
An English gentleman asked his doctor .Doctor I am 60 do you think I will live past 80.
The Doctor asked Do you drink good Scotch he answered NO
Do you drink at all he answered No
' Do you smoke he answered no
Do you chase wild women he answerd no
Finally he asked Do you buy GOLD. he answered no

The good Doctor said to him WHY THE HELL DO YOU WANT TO LIVE '

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:28
Haggis__A (European Currency................and ) ID#398105:

Last week The Telegraph Newspaer in the UK contained an article concerning Germany hoarding gold, in case the Euro failed. Then another article stated that France and Italy were also hoarding gold.

Given that the Brits have, at his time, not joined in the Euro party, are they too hoarding gold - yes I think.

Stories abound that the Euro will flop and be a weak currency. Will it be backed by the US Dollar and/or gold.

Why on earth would the Europeans want the mainstay backing to be the US Dollar ? Given what Wall Street has done to the Asian currencies, why woul the Europeans want a repeat performance in the future?!

Gold, Gold, Gold .......... after all, you can always get counterfiet US Dollars from Russia !!

I suppose if the US Dollar asked the Euro nicely, some support would be forthcoming. We must always look after our American cousins, and our Special Relationsh

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:25
Barb Hughes (@Silverbaron) ID#20783:

The GSA CC Morgan sales were $15- $45 each for the common dates ( 82's,83's& 84's ) .

I agree with your nest two paragraphs.

In regards to Carson City Morgan Dollars being scarce, this is wrong due to the fact that most of the production from the dates ( 1881 thru 1885 ) were in the vaults of the Treasury and released in October of 1962. Also, speaking of rare a 1903- O Morgan Dollar in Uncirculated condition was worth approx. $1500 each in September 1962. In November of 1962, 1903- O had a range from $1.50 to $7.00 each - - - due to what the Treasury had in it's vaults.

Silver Dollars were minted and not released, therefore the CC's are common in mint state grades.

Take care...Barb


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:25
farfel (@HAGGIS...re: get into a bag with a rabid ferret!) ID#28585:
Man, you still crack me up...you're getting better in your old age.
Cheers!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:20
STUDIO.R (How would it feel to be the President of the U.S......) ID#93232:
And not be able to show your face...be under house quarantine, more or less, imposed by your advisors. I wonder if he'll call the Super Bowl winner tomorrow...I'm sure he will...but, Bret Favre or John Elway may not want to talk to him...hurts their image? What a shame.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:18
AZAU (The New O(r)dor) ID#254274:
Bfiler: Gold does not harken doom and gloom, the fact of which has been proven by the Markets as of late. No longer can you claim that the inverse correlation of Gold to the Dow is symbolic of Doom and Gloom. We do not root for the demise of the DOW, but of the triumph of REAL and Lasting Value that is not under control of someone or something else.

Correct, a 3% rise is nothing in itself, but if it initiates a trend, then, at last, the world has come to its financial senses. Please do not shoot the messenger, which I consider Kitco to be.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:18
TZADEAK* (@ Changing GOLD Perception..California Celebrates Gold Rush) ID#372344:
Govenor P. Wilson was one of many thousands who joined in the
celebrations in California in honor of the Great California Gold Rush!

http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news100r.htm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:14
JTF (Fort Knox just bought Argentine gold? ) ID#57232:
Rob: Interesting post. AG is a very smart fellow, and kudos to him if he did what Germany, France and possibly Italy have apparently done. By the way, I read somewhere that just when you think gold is at its worst during a period of apparent CB selling, that is when secret CB buying usually begins - - they know bargains too! And - - they know better than we were the gold bottom is - - since they are the true insider sellers/buyers.

Some time ago I said that a South American country had sold all of its gold - - I think it was Argentina, and not Brazil. If Ft Knox has more gold, that should be public knowledge in a month, as the Fed is supposed to report gold holdings. Now - - if they just forgot to record the transaction for several months - - - ?

Sounds like Argentina is history.

Can you tell us more about Don Wolanchuck? Sounds like an interesting fellow.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:13
Silverbaron (Got 'em on tope!) ID#288295:

Off topic ( please forgive ) , but my wife just told me that MSNBC showed a tape of the Pres. embracing what's- her- name......

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:13
Haggis__A (Bob M......................of course Clinton and do it.............) ID#398105:

..........with a National Debt of US$5.3 trillion, most Americans will STILL say to you that ........

we are the strongest, richest, most powerful country on Earth.......... and actually believe it !!!

Clinton is but a humble American ?!

Talk about the blind leading the blind......... !!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:13
6pak (aurator @ 19:19) ID#335190:
When is enough enough ?

We are mushrooms. ( Feed them horse shit, and keep them in the dark ) Yes, you and I are in agreement, as per your comments, at least from my point of view.

Although, I am Sorry, but we are lost in the wilderness of disinformation.

Community is the key, we no longer have a community.

We all are individuals, with the rights of individuals.

Standing united, or, banding together, suggests communism, socialism, and the like. Yet, that is the actions of a viable and democratic community. Such action in 1998, would never be accepted by the worker/citizen. NEVER!

Ever wonder why all the years of red baiting.? To- day is pay day, for those forces that continued the attack against all citizens that actively engaged in protecting/assuring/securing, the rights of others. Those active citizens, expected such active involvement, would give them the guarantee of their own individual rights. Has not happened eh!

No, the damage is done. Fear, and economic Fear, are the modern day tools used against the worker/citizen. The worker/citizen has no interest in the forces that control their individual lives. We The People could care less.

Russia, is an example of government control, and the We The People, ( Russian ) allowed the government workers and state industry, to destroy their individual lives. No, North America is not exempt, from the exact same government workers. Same mind set, different political system.

History informs us, that Religion, was used as the tool of fear. Only the rich were the men of GOD. The poor ( worker/citizen ) were the children of GOD. Yes, such are those, in the land of the free.

Be Quiet....Consume.....And Die. That is the daily actions, of a free nation. Canada and the USofA. We The People

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:12
farfel (@BFILER...probably stands for Bonds Filer, right Mr. Bonds BUll?) ID#28585:
There is nothing doom & gloom about believing in gold as an investment.
It is merely an exercise in PRAGMATIC rational thought.
Pragmatism is not synonymous with doom & gloom..sorry to burst your bubble.

Gold investment is also not anti- American.
On the other, over- speculation in equities and bonds markets is certainly anti- American because it can lead to disastrous consequences, particularly for the elderly who are forced into an over- speculated market in order to survive financially.

Stockbrokers misleading clients into believing their equities and bonds will reach the moon, while pocketing higher and higher commissions...that is anti- American.

No...the only doom & gloomster on this forum is you, Mr. BondsFiler...
you seem to take perverse pleasure in sticking your nose here so that you can dump your incessant cynicism & derision upon the gold investors who make up the majority of the forum participants.

If you have something revelatory and incisive to say...let's hear it.
If you have a compelling analysis to present...OK, very good, do so.

Otherwise, you are little more than a psychotic heckler trying to disturb merely for the sake of disturbing.

My own suspicions are that, in your heart of hearts, you know the gold investors are right...and you are simply some poor sap that bought a load of equities and call options when the Dow was at 8000...and now, like some frightened little boy who's lost his daddy, you are scared beyond your wits, afraid of losing more money than you already have!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:06
Haggis__A (The Hatt...............) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Is there a futures market for loo paper in the States, in particular Wall Street.........could make a fortune ? Or, are the baby doomers and Yuppies still wearing rubber and sandpaper underwear - and they can't see what is about to happen ?

Again, that is why nothing is worn under the Kilt - it is all in perfect working order !!

Momday will be an interesting day to see if the gold price stabilises at US$300......time will tell.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:05
STUDIO.R (@Ted.....) ID#93232:
Are you here...er, there? Don't quit me now...your stool's available and I'm buyin'.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:03
Silverbaron (Barb Hughes) ID#288295:

Barb - I don't have the specifics in front of me, but my 8 to 10X factor is drawn from the Treasury auction prices of uncirculated GSA CC Morgans at the peak of the silver mania.

Although as I stated to Tolerant1 before, I would generally caution against putting a lot of money into items which have large premiums to bullion, I also believe in some diversification in case the opposite scenario ( inflation ) rears its ugly head. We all know what would happen to collector coins in that case.

With the recent demise of silver and gold, it appears to me that coin collecting may also be near a major low - it which case it may make sense to buy some items which would appreciate if the public buying interest returns in a big way.

In the Morgan dollar area, my take is that Carson City Mint items ( as a group ) might be an area where scarcity of mint production relative to other mints would provide a base for better appreciation.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 20:00
Haggis__A (Bfiler.............Mate, yer back !) ID#398105:

Last time you were here, gold was DOWN !

Yer back, and gold is UP !

However, you STILL carry the same message. We can only conclude that irrespective of the gold price......your message is the same....you is you ! Doom and gloom ?!

Why don't you change the focus of your life. Take up nature rambles, paying particular attention to rare and endangered species. Get some mental stimulation by identifying those closest to extinction. This will form a substitute for GOLD, because Mate, it is NOT near extinction.

While you are at it - test your reflexes, and get into a bag with a rabid ferret !?

Have a nice day..........

Aye, Haggis

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:57
The Hatt (Bfiler It may be just a fart to you however if you were short 100,000 ounces of) ID#294232:
gold it would be more like crapping your pants in the middle of nowhere! The mutual fund meltdown is about to begin and the LIQUIDITY IN THIS PAPER DOME CALLED THE DOW IS ABOUT TO DRY UP!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:56
JTF (Jennifer Flower episode denial lead to first election. Does the press remember?) ID#57232:
The Hatt: Clinton will not resign - - he will resist to the bitter end if the impeachment process begins. His entire political career is based on the phrase, the comeback kid.

I wonder - - will the press will ever forgive him for admitting his affair with Jennifer Flowers, as his initial denial of same was so convincing that he was able to survive that crisis while he was still governor of Arkansas, regain his momentum before his first election, and get elected. His maneuvers were incredible. Gary Hart in the same situation was toast.

All: sorry about my errors in my 19:21 post. follow was actually folly, and what I meant to say was that if BC is unable to rapidly suppress Monicagate, the dollar and the equity markets will do poorly and gold/gold stocks will do very well.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:52
Bob M (Clinton) ID#26059:
I think Clinton will be gone soon...I do not believe he can stand up in front of Congress Tuesday night and make the State of the Union...Ill bet this will be the most widely watched speech ever..probably will rival the game tommorrow for US viewership

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:49
MoReGoLd (@President Al Gore) ID#348286:
The Hatt: Good questions. Clittons will be gone within 2 weeks. The wizzards will probably find a way to put a positive spin on it and keep Wall street above water. It will be interesting to see what happens to the Dollar and Gold though. ECU expected to help Gold......

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:44
MoReGoLd (@Amazing - Now here's the other point of view - Barrons sucks.....) ID#348286:
January 23, 1998

Gold jumps to two- month high as dollar slides

 NEW YORK ( Reuters ) - Gold prices jumped to their highest level in two months Friday on heavy fund buying prompted by further slide in the U.S. dollar amid the ongoing sex allegatiions besieging the Clinton White House.
  We heard all sorts of rumors, from Clinton resigning to more players in the sex scandal at the White House, but more to the point was the breakdown in the dollar, which occurred at the same time as the jump in gold, said Chris Foster, fund manager with Friedberg Mercantile Group in Toronto.
  It looked like fresh buying too, as funds have already been covering shorts this week and open interest has fallen.
  COMEX February gold ended up $9.00 an ounce at $300.30, after seeing a session high at $301.00, the highest intraday level since Nov. 25.
  Total COMEX gold volume was estimated at 110,000 lots, the highest one- day volume since Oct. 24.
  In the bullion market, spot gold closed quoted $299.25/00 an ounce, compared with the London afternoon fix of $291.00 and the New York close Thursday at $290.20/70.
  The rumor about ( U.S. Treasury Secretary ) Rubin resigning helped to start the move, but the market held so well even though the rumor was quickly denied, that other waves of buying came in, said Dinsa Mehta, managing director for global commodities with Chase Manhattan bank in New York.
  The background is that there's been no U.S. producer selling at the low price levels seen recently in gold and the market has already penciled in the extent of central bank gold selling, he said.
  Earlier this month, industry consultants Gold Fields Mineral Services estimated gross official gold sales in 1997 were 825 tons, of which 534 tons were undisclosed and 291 tons were confirmed sales from Australia and Argentina.
  In addition, there's not a willingness on the part of central banks to sell gold at these low levels, and the lesson of the Asian financial crisis is that assumptions about currency stability are being questioned, Mehta said.
  So the last thing European central banks want is some sort of shadow over the birth of the new Euro currency which might be created by the disposal of more central bank gold, he said.
  The European Union is due to decide in May this year on the level of gold reserves to be held in the planned European Central Bank, ahead of the launch of the euro in January 1999.
  Because this market will be more starved of sales of central bank gold needed to keep gold prices down at the 18- year lows seen recently, this market is going to engineer a move higher, and I think we could easily hit a vacuum here and could see $330- 340 an ounce fairly quickly, Mehta said.
 

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:38
The Hatt (What if the President Resigns) ID#294232:
I am of the opinion that most believe that Clinton is finished and that will have a devastating effect on the Dow. For those that stood in line to buy bonds below 5.75% the flight to quality will suddenly become a flight to loss of capital. Where will the Dow open Monday and will the dollar continue its slide?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:35
Barb Hughes (@ Silverbaron RE:18:21 Post to AL) ID#20783:

Please explain your Carson City Dollar theory. What prices are you quoting from the 70's and when were they 8 to 10 times higher than they are now? And how can you suggest that something that trades for approximately 15 TIMES intrinsic value ( melt ) can be considered a silver investment.

By the way, in November of 1980, at a silver spot of wow $19.65, common date MS- 63 Carson City Morgan dollars were worth approx. $95 to $100 each, while common date circulated junk silver dollars were worth $17 to $18 each.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:33
MoReGoLd (@The Wall Street Crowd: What a one-sided peice of CRAP!) ID#348286:
Barrons

By Cheryl Strauss Einhorn

Key Commodity Indexes

After hitting a 19- year low of $279 an ounce on January 8, gold has rallied; a nice
gain Friday pushed its price to $300, about 7% higher than its level two weeks earlier.
But many analysts believe the rebound will be short- lived. Why? Because the activity
was largely technical, fund- based buying. Too, Friday's market reacted to the falling
U.S. dollar and President Clinton's latest scandal. Besides that short- term activity, and
some physical sales to India, which are expected to decline after the Chinese New
Year, the same problems that plagued gold in 1997, are likely to dog it during 1998's
first half. These include: central bank disposals, poor demand from financially worn
Asia and a sound low- inflation economic outlook that bodes better for financial than
physical assets. The sell- side has it for the first half, says Felix Freeman, Scotia
McLeod's gold analyst. Prices are expected to decline toward the $265 area for the
next three to four months. This is not a good sign for gold companies. Already, the
market has seen the actual failure of Rea Gold. And just last week brought the effective
failure of Pegasus Gold. Too, despite weak prices, real- estate concern TrizecHahn
decided last week to dump its 28 million- share stake in Barrick Gold. Clearly, Trizec
thought it could put its money to better use. Ostensibly, Trizec's gold- savvy chief
executive, Peter Munk, doesn't expect prices to revive soon. While gold stocks have
been battered, they're still generally overvalued. The average stock trades at a 70%
premium to its underlying net asset value. There is only one possible recommendation
- - sell the lot,asserts Freeman. He figures a decline to $265 an ounce would reduce
gold- stock prices another 16% , in part because the shares tend to fall by 3% for
every 1% drop in the metal's price. Even more bearish, should the stocks'current
premium shrink to, say, 5% of the value of a company's total gold reserves, Freeman
expects the stocks to skid by another 30% - 34% . This level of short- term risk
obviates buying any of these stocks, even on a more optimistic one- year view, he
says. Furthermore, possible mine closures and re- assessments, project cancellations
and companies succumbing to debt problems will make individual stocks even more
risky. Without growth in production and reserves, it's tough to argue that these
companies' shares should be trading at a premium. And analysts estimate that the
industry can't sustain more than about six months of the current conditions without
setting back future growth by several years, owing to the need to rebuild financial
strength. So, which companies could be the next victims of the plunge in gold prices?
Most likely, those with a lot of financial leverage- debt - - on top of their operating
leverage. Financial leverage enables a company to make a bigger bet than otherwise,
but the reverse is true, too. Companies that use financial leverage are at the greatest
risk in a market downturn. Companies fitting into this category include: Echo Bay
Mines, Royal Oak, Coeur d'Alene Mines, Amax Gold and even gold major Newmont
Gold. The most leveraged - - Freeman calls them the walking dead - - have so much
debt that they might not be able to service their liabilities until the industry turns. Hence,
even if they have valuable mines, they still may not make it because it's unclear when
gold will strengthen significantly. For instance, Amax Gold just reported yearend
results. Total current assets: $118.6 million. Liabilities: $221 million. Net current
assets? Minus $102.4 million. Surprisingly, few companies have strong hedge positions
that could protect them from a further price decline for more than a year. Without any
hedges at current prices, 40% of gold- mine production is unprofitable. Even
companies like Homestake Mining could suffer. Homestake is one of the more
leveraged equity plays on gold prices, given the company's high costs and relatively flat
forward- production profile. It isn't likely that Homestake will be able to post forward
growth from its current gold assets, contends ABN Amro's Tom Hinrichs. Result:
Should gold prices remain below $300, Homestake will eventually be forced to write
down a minimum of 25% of their proven and probable reserves, he maintains. Says
Homestake's Mike Steeves, It is our goal to address these concerns. Could any of
these companies become takeover targets? The experts don't think that will happen
soon. Says Hinrichs: Many of these companies' chance of survival is next to nil.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:33
Silverbaron (bfiler, aurofile) ID#288295:

And this ain't the top!

http://www.intersurf.com/~vor/gold.html

GO GOLD!......er - silver!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:32
STUDIO.R (@bfiler.....) ID#93232:
I am drawing the conclusion that you feel money invested in gold products is foolishly placed. Would you care to share your ideas as to where we might better place our capital? Thank you...by the way, I also presume you know why we celebrate so vocally on up days, they have been hard to come by...but none the less, very exciting.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:28
mozel (Spellbound) ID#153102:
Let's suppose I issue notes and that you take these notes and buy a car.
Who owns the car ?
You bought the car with unpaid debt. Do you own it ?
Can anything bought with unpaid debt be owned ?
The Constitution is to establish justice for honest men.
What is bankruptcy ? Who is bankruptcy court for ? It's not a constitutional law court.


Lands under a spell of enchantment are always dangerous places. Sorcerers can make people think their neighbors are rats or other vermin to be caught and disposed of. To be under a spell does not seem like madness. Perhaps it is the anxiety that they might be going mad which a sane thought caues that keeps the spellbound under the spell.

In the tales handed down to us about enchantments, when spells are finally broken people come back to reality, but they are always poorer for the experience.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:21
aurophile (ooops, bilfer=bfiler) ID#177109:
.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:21
JTF (Dollar crisis primary, gold secondary) ID#57232:
HighRise: Saw your 12:30 post. I think we agree - - that the gold push up was secondary to the dollar drop, which was probably due to Monicagate, or as you call it, Jail Bait gate. Bond interest rates up, and gold up would fit with a confidence crisis in the US dollar.
I think now we will see the follow of making the value of the US dollar based only on confidence in the United States, and not so many ounces of gold. We have enough trouble with the stock market being based on confidence in the US markets - that is unavoidable. But we have compounded the situation by doing away with any connection of the US dollar with something concrete. And - - this confidence in the presidency could not have come at a worse time - - just as AG is inflating the dollar as fast as he can to avoid worldwide deflation.
Now, if the world can no longer feel safe investing in the US dollar, what currency will they choose? And - - what are AG and RR going to do for damage control if the dollar continues to drop?
I think D.A. said that BC will not be impeached - - I agree - - he will hold on to the White House irregardless of the damage that is done to the presidential office. That is what he does - - he is a pro at political infighting and surviving. But this time it will be different. So, as D.A. said so well - - the dollar will do poorly unless BC is able to completely suppress Monicagate - - and gold will do very well.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:21
aurophile (bilfer) ID#177109:
some ( most ) like to buy the top and some ( few ) like to buy the bottom.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:20
Bfiler (30%?) ID#261267:

Gee I would have thought only options and futures in gold could be up 30%
yesterday. I'll have to do the math 9.5 into 300 but I doubt it comes to 30% . If you are speaking of derivatives...big friggin deal. My CAWS call options we're up 900% in one day and I had 5k on them. You're talking about increased risk/gain ratio due to derivatives.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:19
aurator (You the Enemy) ID#255284:
tolerant1

You might be interested in this URL i posted a while ago WAR AND EMERGENCY POWERS Report:


http://afcomm.com/afc/report.html

In Senate Report 93- 549 ( Exhibit 56 ) , we find the following statement from Senator Church:
These powers, if exercised, would confer upon the President
total authority to do anything he pleased.

*****
We are a nation whose government is based upon those immortal words, a
government of the people, by the people, for the people. One has only to walk
down the highways and byways of this great land to know all too well that this
is not a government of the people or for the people. Actions speak louder than
words, and the actions taken over the past decades have resulted in an
unparalleled decline of American economic and political power, and a
weakening of American values and spirit.

This is not a crisis in which the taking up of arms is the answer. No, this is a
situation in which we firmly believe that the pen will be mightier than the
sword. That a state of emergency exists cannot be disputed. That the emergency
is one which should concern every American alive cannot be denied. That we
must stand together, laying aside our individual differences, to fight the
common foe, is of vital importance, for the time to act is now. But this is not a
battle of swords, but of knowledge, for only when the deception is exposed to
the light of day can the healing process begin.

Truth stands tall in the light of day, and it is the truth we bring to you today.
Let it be known and understood that it is our intention to make this information
available to every concerned American who desires to know the true State of
the Union. This is an undertaking of immense proportions, but we have
dedicated ourselves to bringing this information to the light of day, and with the
help of We, the People, we will be successful in our efforts.

Every American who is thankful for the opportunity to call themselves
American must also accept the responsibility that comes with that title. We the
People have not only a right, but a responsibility to each other and to those who
have gone before us to learn what our government is doing, and to judge
whether actions taken benefit the people who will bear the costs. We have been
in the dark long enough, content to rest on our past glories and let the
government take its course. In a way, we have been like children, trusting in
our parents to act in our best interest. But as we have too frequently seen in the
nightly news, not all parents have their children's best interest at heart.

The time has come for us to take off our blinders and accept reality, for the
time of national reckoning has arrived. The majority of our elected and
appointed officials are no more responsible for the current state of affairs than
are we. The strings are being manipulated at far higher levels than the positions
most officials occupy. They are working with little knowledge or authority,
trying to control problems far bigger than even they realize. Their programs
and actions may seek to cure the symptoms, but the time has now come to attack
the disease. They are no more guilty than we are, nor will they be any more
protected when the nation collapses on us all.

If we blame them for this national emergency, we must also truly blame
ourselves, for it is We the People to whom this nation was given and whose
duty it was to keep a watchful eye on those who direct the sails of the ship of
state. We have, however, fallen asleep, and while we were dreaming the
American dream, a band of pirates stole the Constitution and put our people
into slavery.

And since that terrible day when our Constitution was cast aside, not one
President or Congress, nor one Supreme Court justice has been able or willing
to return it to its rightful owners. Given the current state of the union, there is
no reason to expect this situation to change unless we ourselves cause it to be so.

Let us put the childish emotions of pity and self- deception away, stand up, stand
together and fight back. Now is the time to stop dreaming, and start the long
work before us. Now is the time to turn back to the principles and ideals on
which this nation was founded, the strong foundation from which our national
identity springs.

When does tolerance become anarchy? When does protection become slavery?
When is enough enough?


anarchy1

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:18
Speed (Bfiler) ID#286199:
Bullion is up $9 and that is a small percentage gain if you trade unleveraged bullion. Who does that? Many gold stocks were up double digit percentages over that past week. Gold Bugs on this site have reason to celebrate. Even a novice like myself swerved into DROOY at
1 13/16 and watched it close above 3 on Friday. The scoreboard finally lit up for our side. Go GOLD!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:14
Silverbaron (Bfiler) ID#288295:

A 20- 30% gain IN ONE DAY is not as you describe. Many of us bugs did that YESTERDAY......

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:13
tolerant1 (DFO'C) ID#31868:
Welcome, you are right, there are many here who provide excellent thoughts.

A customary shot, gulp, of tequila to ya.

Get Camdesuss!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:07
Bfiler (according to this crowd...) ID#261267:

this gold bull has been starting for about 2 years nows. If a 300 stock
were up 9 points it wouldn't be a breakout... It'd be a fart. Which is what
you all have at this point.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:05
Silverbaron (Rob) ID#288295:

A Gold- for Bonds deal?

That might even be better than the Gold- for- Oil story.

But it would perhaps explain why certain EU countries have been buying bonds, while the Japanese have been selling.....

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:04
Rob (korean gold index?) ID#410114:
This is a site that has the Korean stock market and various financial info. Unfortunatly for me it is in Korean. Are there any kitcoites that can look thru the site and find gold info? Gold and stocks trade on Saturday in Korea. Here's the address:

http://www.korea- stock.com/

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:03
TZADEAK* (@ oris..You've got it wrong I am merely defending,with facts! He is the aggressor.) ID#372344:
This lattest exchange started when I correctly and factually pointed out
that DROOY had dropped something like 80% in value in one year,vs
ABX 40% drop.and that the BIG money will Not go into SA .
He reacts by postingthis is the reason I react so fiercly to little half smart TZ and fancies himself an anal and an example of
a tiny prawn I could go on but I am surprised at you, calling me the aggressor! Just because my factual arguments are truthful and superior to his mindless drivel and personal attacks.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:03
aurophile (Rob) ID#177109:
That is quite an idea! Can you direct me to something in writing by Wolanchuk? I didn't even know he was interested in gold.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 19:01
Bfiler (this whole Kitco crowd...) ID#261267:
seems like they could use one of their own once in awhile.
DOOM AND GLOOM forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:59
NIKKO 1 () ID#392328:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:59
Rob (Fort Knox) ID#410114:
Don Wolanchuck suspects that the US gov't has been the buyer of other central banks gold. He also noted that ( he thinks ) Argentines sold their gold at the low and bought US treasuries at the high.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:58
Bfiler (And PE 130004 allows...) ID#261267:

the President to get a little hummer when needs one.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:57
aurophile (APH/Glenn) ID#177109:
I would also second Glenn's favorable appraisal of APH's 1117 post. Personally I am not sure whether we are already in the middle of wave 5 or in an extending wave three, but I have been looking at a top in the first week of February as well. A wave three count would give us time to get to $320 although one of targets based on the first leg has been met at $398.40. I think the correction then is over by third week February or the first few days of March at the latest.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:48
tolerant1 (Silverbaron 18:32 opps!) ID#31868:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:48
TZADEAK* (@ James.. I'm still rolling on the floor! BTW She claims to havespit it out on her dress,true!) ID#372344:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:47
tolerant1 (Silverbaron re: 18:28) ID#31868:
Quite right, thanks.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:46
aurophile (D.A.) ID#177109:
Very good post. I have been talking about de- disinflation lately since if one uses the I word one is totally ignored. Total reversal of sentiment and now some 17 years later.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:38
Bart Kitner (Kitco) (posts) ID#25867:
Ted: Paying special attention to the top of the list, it’s time you review our guidelines ( at ) and do a self- evaluation.

Studio R., I don’t think vronsky has seen my posts. In any case he won’t be banished. But Ted might.

To Steve- Perth: We are trying to create a discussion group devoid of promotional content within the postings. Thanks for your help. We may start a structured advertising program here but not for few months at least. If anyone is interested, let me know. - bkitner@kitco.com


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:37
James (Monica@Mitigates@Clinton@Miasma) ID#252150:
Reuters..16:22EST... Monica Lewinsky has just stated through her

Lawyer- - that while she admits to performing oral sex on President Clinton- - - SHE DID NOT SWALLOW!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:36
glenn (I SECOND THIS!!!!) ID#376309:
APH made an excellent post and this is my thinking EXACTLY!


http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1998q1/1998_01/980124.111737.apheeeeee.htm


With the 200 day moving average at 321.00 and dropping twenty to thirty cents per trading day I am glad you revised lower your top target. If we close above the 200 DMA I will be ultra bullish and I will post such an event the day it happens.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:36
6pak (Mozel @ National Emergency in the United States since March 9, 1933.) ID#335190:
1933::
The Johnson Debt Default Act, Congress passed, forbids additional loans to any country in default of debt payments to the United States.

Secretary of State Cordell Hull persuades Congress that the high tariffs of the 1930 Smoot- Hawley Act have contributed to world depression and should be replaced by mutual tariff relaxation. The Reciprocal Trade Agreement Act passed by Congress June 12 gives the President power to negotiate trade pacts without advice or consent of the Senate, and the first such pact is signed August 24 with Cuba.

The Liberty League formed in August to oppose New Deal economic measures is a bipartisan group that includes the du Ponts, Alfred Sloan and William Knudsen of General Motors, J. Howard Pew of Sun Oil, Sewell Avery of Montgomery Ward, and politicians such as Democrats Alfred E. Smith and John Jacob Raskob.

Relief Administrator Harry L. Hopkins reports that 4.7 million families are on relief. 15 million Americans out of work. 1 million destitute farm families receive direct government relief. ( Congress establishes The Farm Credit Act )

1932 - Iowa farmers protest low farm prices Stay at home Sell nothing Farm prices have fallen 40% since 1929. Total number of US farms roughly 6.3 million. Average annual farm income $400 per family. Mortgage debt of US farms is $9.2 billion, up from $3.2 billion in 1910. Machines to remain competitive, is the reason for the high debt.

Weekly wage has fallen from $28 to $17. US industrial production drops to one- third its 1929 total, and US GNP sinks to $41 billion, just over half its 1929 level. 5 million Americans are illiterate. 71 % of US families have incomes below $2,500. US population at 124 million.

1931 - 2,294 US banks fail, up from 1,352 in 1930.

Take Care.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:32
Silverbaron (tolerant1) ID#288295:

I expected to see 'Heil Hilter!'
at the bottom of your emergency powers list......VERY SCARY, indeed.

On the subject of pre- 1933 gold coins - there are perhaps some deflationary scenarios where the high- end coins, which command large premiums over bullion, would not hold those premiums.

St.Gaudens ( MS- 64 or lower ) and Liberty ( MS- 63 and lower ) $20 should be a safe bet for the mix. Certified coins are a plus because of their liquidity, with no question of grading.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:32
DEJ (Barron's Article.) ID#269191:
The fact that the vast majority are still negative is good.
The article cited the usual litany: the central banks will sell their
gold, Asian demand is falling, inflation is low, etc, etc. etc.

Here are the facts: supply is falling and overall demand continues
to rise. As the dollar sinks because of the expanding trade deficit,
slowing U.S. economy, rapidly expanding money supply etc. the Asian
demand will come back. We already have a 1300 deficit between mine supply and fabrication demand. That should get alot bigger this year.
With the dollar falling the U.S. will likely experience higher inflation
or depending on events outright deflation. Either way gold wins.
The time to buy gold is when everybody hates it. That's before the
inflation or deflation gets started not after its already here. Therefore, an analyst saying you shouldn't buy gold because there is no
present inflation only explains why the analyst has to work for a living
rather than living off the profits of his good gold calls.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:28
DFO'C (Thanks to all) ID#270349:
I am just a guy in the crowd here in Los Angeles. I found this sight at a time when I had enough cash to think about investments. As a boy I was a coin collector and have always had a love for gold coins, although never the ability to purchase. I discovered this sight several months ago and, with your knowledge, expertise and assistance, have discovered an incredible opportunity to participate in these most remarkable of financial times. I was able to get out of my mutual funds ahead of the game and have been fairly successful in buying the dips in both physical gold and platinum. I have, and continue, to learn a great deal about investing and economics as well. I'm also watching the various mining stocks discussed here, preparing to invest in them also. I took a pretty good bashing from family and friends when I purchased metal. But now I'm ahead all around, with your help, so the bashers are now silent. I have, in my own small way, promoted this sight, as well as precious metals. I just wanted to express my thanks and gratitude to you all. I have learned, and continue to learn, a great deal here at Kitco.
GO GOLD

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:27
cherokee__A (@-----one-more-time----) ID#344308:

tam bien- - - - - -

the quality of the posts here is incredible! the view is second

to none, as the giants are the tallest in the land! i tip my war- bonnet

to those deserving the kudo's......you know who you are.....

excellent....carry on- - - - - kansas- - - - - and prepare for dust in the wind...

'if i have seen farther than others, it is because i have stood on the
shoulder of giants' sir isaac newton.......

cherokee!; ) - - standing- on- the- shoulders- of- giants- - - looking- backward- to-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - see- forward- - - - - - - - INCOMING!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:21
Silverbaron (Al (Silver)) ID#288295:

Al - You can buy ( junk ) 90% silver coin bags in face amounts of $500 and $1000, pre- counted and sewn closed. This is the most economical way to buy silver coins.

Silver dollars tend to trade for a pretty steep premium over bullion. You can ( I think ) still buy Morgan or Peace ( well- circulated ) silver dollars in the range of $6.25 to $7 if you hunt for them.

On a historical basis, uncirculated silver dollars are still pretty cheap, especially in grades of MS- 63 and below. I particularly like the Carson City Mint Morgans as a silver investment; they are still trading for 1970's prices and have been 8 to 10 times as expensive in the past.

If you need sources, email me at Silverdolr@webtv.net

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:21
cherokee__A (@----last chance.......) ID#344308:

the billary/gold ratio- - - - - -

as billary goes down in flames.....

so will gold rise from the ashes...as the proverbial phoenix...

as we knew it would.....as it should be....

fixing to buy more gold calls monday......the train is over- loaded
and pulling- out of the station.......hope all have their tickets
to ride....she's got a ticket to ride.....fixing to 'put the spurs
to the shorts' and rip some @ss......

klinton is fixing to reap what he has sown........monumental grief!

he HAS to resign......the sooner the better....good for gold..bad for paper........woooooo......wooooooooo......woooooooo.....ALLABOARD

the ssm is loaded for bear[sic] and will squirt on all that have not
reserved their seats, or posthumously earned them.....you know who you
are.....silver and gold feathers accepted tam bien...

cherokee!;;;;- - survivor- of- the- gold- war- - - - time- to- ATTACK!! BUY GOLD!!


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:21
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R) ID#31868:
Yes they are excellent. However, since you seem to buy with cash it really does not matter. I considered FDR a traitor and as you can see from the posts on the Emergency Powers, confiscatory anything from the government is illegal at best, treason in my book. There are no powers in the Constitution which allows for confiscation of gold and silver coins. Period.

Bullion mix, pre 1933 coins, junk silver coins, soverigns, helvitias. Basically metal my friend and you will preserve your capitol.

No American will ask you for your money, anyone who does is a traitor or the enemy.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:09
tolerant1 (Silverbaron - Un-Constitutional Dictator with the stroke of a pen) ID#31868:
This nation ( The U.S. ) has been gearing up for internal problems for many years.

Hundreds of Presidential Executive Orders have been issued to allow emergency powers under any type of crisis - perceived or real. A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry, bypassing Congress completely. Here are just a few Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the simple stroke of a presidential pen:

PEO10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

PEO10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

PEO10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

PEO10998 allows the government to take control of all food sources and farms.

PEO11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

PEO11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

PEO11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

PEO11003 allows the government to seize control of all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

PEO11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

PEO11005 allows the government to take control of railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

PEO11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

PEO11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

Without Congressional approval, the President now has the power to transfer whole populations to any part of the country, the power to suspend the Press and to enforce a national registration of all persons. The President, in essence, has dictatorial powers never provided to him under the Constitution. The President has the power to suspend the Bill of Rights in any real or perceived emergency. Unlike Lincoln or Roosevelt, these powers are not derived from any wartime need, but from *any* crisis- - domestic or foreign, hostile or economic.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:07
Al (silver) ID#257114:
Anyone have any ideas on buying junk silver? What is the minimum dollar amount that someone can purchase? Are Morgan Dollars better? What are the best silver coins to purchase?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:05
Caper (@Clinton et al) ID#334174:
For those mericans who wish to voice opinions re current fiasco/cluster
fuk- plse call @ 1900 849- 6969 or 1900 562- oral

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:05
mozel (tolerant1 Silverbaron) ID#153102:
Stroke of a pen is the essence of it.
It takes the form of a letter addressed to the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 18:04
oris (Tzadeak: Cease fire initiative or from Oris with love) ID#242258:
Tzadeak, I think it's time to
stop this strange war between
John Disney and you. It looks like
you are more on aggresive side
than John Disney.

If even me, whose nick name is Mad Russian,
could do that with Karlito or Ziva,
why cann't you cool down a little bit...

It's high time.

Some of your none John Disney's posts
are pretty interesting, so may be you
would just stick with those....please?!

I think you already made it clear you
don't like John Disney, so why repeat it
again and again?





Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:58
STUDIO.R (@T#1...) ID#93232:
I am not qualified to recommend any investment, but it sure sounds like a guy will come out well on unc. pre- 33's of all types. What say you?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:49
tolerant1 (Silverbaron) ID#31868:
Stroke of a pen. I am sure Mozel has a far more definitive response.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:42
TZADEAK* (@ Mr. Dizzy....South African Technicolor Dreams~`~`~`~`~`) ID#372344:
Oh Ya! Now you have disclosed my true indentity. I am indeed
the first Grandson of Mayer ROTHCHILD here at Kitco on an extremely
important assignment, to keep you DIZZY the most powerful SA Stock
pusher, from ruining their plan to keep SA to themselves! Oh Ya!
Just like you told Ersel on your 05:11 this morning Stop reading the
newspapers,don't watch TV just listen to me You are the Premier SA
Propagandist on this forum and you can't handle the truth! and anyone
who says anything factual, diferent than YOUR view is attacked!

For all your mindless raving , you still have not responded to my factual question!

Did DROOY drop 80% vs ABX 40% .? and while were are on this subject,
some here including LGB have hounded posters like George Cole,
and Puetz for their predictions, but where are yours for DROOY?
Didn't you recommend it last year at $9.25? Did you, answer that!
You jsut can't stand the fact that nearly US$80 Million bought ABX
yesterday and maybe US$5 million bought DROOY? Yah the Big money
is going into DROOY alright! and you just want a piece of that action don't you? As I stated yesterday the BIG money will NOT move into SA,
for whatever reason that is the history then and now!

Why don't you push your SA shares to say South Africans?
Why push them on us North Americans? You don't see me on a SA thread bragging about NA shares.

And why are you recomending Shares here in the first place?
The last time I looked this is a GOLD discussion forum on matters relating to Gold, NOT a Stock discussion Forum!

According to Bart Kit rules of netiquette No. 7
Don't participate as an investor if your interest is really promoting stocks
adentify yourself as such in the classified ads
The majority of your posts are pushing SA Shares, some game criket, old movies,and truly mindless drivel! I have yet to read any posts on matters effecting the price of Gold.
My interest in speaking out the facts about SA, as I have stated many
times now, since they are one of the top producers of Gold, if for
some reason, political instability, DEEP depleted costly deposits, or other
some or most of that Gold cannot be brought unto market, then I blelieve
it would certainly effect the price of GOLD!

Finally did you say you were not going to read my posts why do you insist on reading them? why do you care what facts I post? as opposed to say Private Investor who's post you still have not adressed.

Why Are you so concerned that a thinking person would have a
diferrent view of SA based on SA FACTS, other than YOURS and state so?
Go back to your technicolor dreams in your 5th Dimension and let anyone and everyone who has a view based on facts of SA or any other matter
relating to the price of Gold , enlighten this great discussion forum
so that we may make up our own minds about investments, without your one sided, biased , prejudiced and uncalled for attacks and name calling.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:40
Silverbaron (mozel & tolerant1) ID#288295:

What is the mechanism used by the President to notify Congress of the continuing emergency? Is this simply a formality?

P.S. ( TO ALL ) I very much appreciate the EXCELLENT analysis presented here today ( and always ) . I have completely stopped reading/watching any mainstream media sources; I get more accurate and unfiltered information here.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:34
STUDIO.R (@All.....) ID#93232:
Just hung up a phone call from Mike Kosares, USAgold, and he reports that British sovereigns are now on the endangered supply list...in that, like the D. 20 Mark, they are not available at this time. He seems to be somewhat worried about having supply to fill orders. This is his business...selling coins and bullion on a rather large scale basis.
Bullion coins are available...but he said he and other dealers that he works with are becoming a bit worried about them also. He made this remark...You know, the orders to date have been from goldbugs....what's going to happen when John Q. Investor jumps into the game? Good question.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:28
Schippi (Fidelity Select Gold Charts) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Charts:
Five Year Chart http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpmlt.htm
120 market days Chart http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm120.htm
30 market days Chart http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm30.htm
10 days Hourly Chart http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:21
oris (The Hatt) ID#242258:
Hopefully, it is going to be a classic case of gold
rise because of classic reasons for gold to rise.

But.... Mr. Clinton needs support, so....
Monday MAY be a strange day. Don't be surprised.

At the end it's all about US$, not about shorts
or CB's. Shorts are just rank- n- file guys who
smell good food, but the cook is Fed. If Fed
cooks again, just watch.

The good news is that US$ must come down, but
what's the plan - only A.G. and Mr.Rubin know.

Take care.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:15
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (CHEESEHEAD'S LAW) ID#431263:
CHEESEHEAD'S LAW says that Beer consumed is directly proportionate to Cheer beer brings! So can't predict how many will be consumed by my Packer- backer freunds but who's countin' anywho, I've got a half- barrel on tap! Wish my Kitco freunde could all join me, even Tolerant 1 and his taste for finer fare!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:15
Speed (John Disney (Gearing)) ID#286199:
Thanks for that clear explanation of gearing. I am continuing to research SA mines. If you still have that spreadsheet, I would like a copy. dsissom@freewwweb.com


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:09
tolerant1 (From Mozel post; everyone read this over and over) ID#31868:
On Jamuary 21, Clinton notified the House of Represnetatives that the National Emergency continues. There has been a continuous official National Emergency in the United States since March 9, 1933.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:06
STUDIO.R (@G. Cheezeman....) ID#93232:
Sixteen golden coins....you have chosen the correct door! You win! Mr. Cheeseman, I have heard that the Beer Man is very popular in your region....Would you care to forecast how many brewskies will be consumed by your person tomorrow? Would it be like in the three figures? PBR?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:04
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Think about it!) ID#431263:
How would YOU like to fight for a commander- in- chief who ducked the draft, sucked weed, and porked every woman he could get his hands on in the ovular office? Get ready, patriots! Methinks that's the choice you're about to have to make!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 17:01
tolerant1 (GOLDEN CHEESHEAD) ID#31868:
Does my heart good to see you have not change one bit. A shot of tequila at ya, gulp. Glad to hear see you are okay.

Get Camdesuss!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:59
farfel (STARSHINE'S POST (14:50) TODAY: A MUST-READ FOR EVERYBODY!!) ID#28585:
STARSHINE provides a simple, analogical tale that will make the value of gold easily understandable to your friends and, at the same time, will leave gold's enemies biting their nails.

( See previous post )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:58
mozel (The Madness of Crowds) ID#153102:
The motto of the now defunct, but once influential Puck, a magazine for the well to do, was What Fools these Mortals be !. The cover of the Novermber 1, 1905 issue, price ten cents, is amusing and informative.

It shows three drawn figures: Uncle Sam, Nelson Aldrich, the Senator, and John D. Rockefeller. Uncle Sam is thoughfully stroking his beard at the scene depicted by Aldrich and Rockefeller. Aldrich is standing with both feet atop a little copy of the Treasury Building. He is holding on the palm of his raised left hand a little copy of the capitol building and in his right is a legislative bill. Rockefeller is perched on the ball and toes of his left foot with his right raised and crossed over like he is dancing. In his raised left hand is a can with a spout and handle which is labelled Standard Oil. In his raised right is a large wallet bulging with greenbacks. Both Aldrich and Rockefeller are brown skinned and completely naked except for a tutu. The tutu's of both are labelled Gold Dust. At the bottom is Pucks's message, Let The Gold Dust Twins Do Your Work., which was the advertising slogan of the popular cleaning powder, Gold Dust, and the comment ( You might as well, Uncle. They'll do it anyway. )

When the conditions which gave certain words their meaning change, but the words stay in usage, it creates the kind of confusion which opportunistic thieves and scoundrels can use to their advantage. It's like a pick pocket thief creating a diversion except on a much grander scale. When the word has both a political and a legal usage, the opportunities are greatest.

For instance, the word corporation. It is generally supposed to denote a legal entity of capitalism. Rockefeller was popularly supposed a capitalist. Yet, what is it he has in his hand: greenbacks, not capital. Capital means gold and silver coin. But, obviously, by 1905 greenbacks were considered capital, even by the editors of Puck. The error of thinking that corporatism and capitalism are the same thing continues to this day. In Switzerland a bank corporation is capitalized with gold francs. Everywhere else the bank corporations are capitalized with greenbacks or the local equivalent. So, the word capital is used in our time to signify both gold coin and paper notes. If one word was used to denote eggs and lead ingots, restuarants would soon come up with a new word for one or the other. But, the governments of the world and their handmaidens, the financial centers and economists, have not done so. The conditions in America which gave the word capital its meaning ceased to exist in 1860- 65, But, no official or popular recognition of this fact has ever taken place.

On Jamuary 21, Clinton notified the House of Represnetatives that the National Emergency continues. There has been a continuous official National Emergency in the United States since March 9, 1933. It has legal effect, but no political significance. No popular recognition of this fact has ever taken place. People still say If thus and such happens, they will have to declare an emergency and martial law.

The federal bankruptcy court is not an Article III court which means the Constitution does not apply in it. Acts of Congress and State statutes may be constitutional, unconstitutional, and non- constitutional. No popular recognition of this fact has ever taken place.

Debt cannot be paid with debt. You can prove this to yourself with two credit cards. No popular recognition of this fact has ever taken place. People still say A belief that this debt will be paid someday is essential for confidence in our money.

Dollar is a unit of measure like quart. How, then, can we make sense speaking of a gold standard for the dollar. Would you inflate your tires to the air standard or just add air ? Would you fill your pool to the water standard or just add water ? Do you order concrete according to the concrete standard or by cubic feet ?

Words have power. Wizards can use magic words to enchant whole populations. There are many tales of this happening worth re- reading. Abracadabra is a magic word. It has sound, but no substantive meaning. Another magic word is investment. There is no investment without capital. The difference between abracadabra and investment is that one is popularly recognized as a magic word and the other is not. Truth is not what you see. The magicians of Indonesia showed the American Secretary of Defense how bats flew out of the mouth of a soldier when he was smacked on the chest. Magicians have power over what is seen. Movie makers and television producers are magicians. Truth comes by the spoken or by the written word, but when words are of double meaning, in what language can truth be communicated ? One might almost as well be mute and illiterate. Double meaning words make double minded men. A double minded man in unsteady in all of his ways.

If your uncle were to start doing things like looking at his watch and saying, My refrigerator is not keeping time at the proper temperature, I think you would at least have his head examined. But who is going to examine heads when everybody says things like The right favors investment, but the left favors spending and the unit of both investment and spending is debt ?

I am reminded of the saying that those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad.

There is reportedly a fixed ratio of ounces of gold to barrels of oil below which the oil buying nations have agreed not to let compensation for oil fall. But, at today's $ price of gold, the ratio is very generous in gold to the oil sellers. Could the Central Banksters be so enchanted with their magic words that they don't care ? Are they not wizards in control of their magic words, but apprentices of the sorcerer ? I think so.

The sorcerers are heads of state. Each commands unlimited credit in his enchanted land. It is only when the sorcerers try to use their magic words on each other that the magic spell is broken.

The sorcerer's apprentices are going to come together soon and announce new magic which they will call the international currency board or something very like and perhaps more lenders of last resort will be spoken into existence. The trouble is the sorcerers can't read the book the apprentices have been using to make black magic. So when they finally throw pages from the book at the black holes in the land, the holes may just swallow them all up. And even if they don't, the spell will soon cause madness to break out. That's how stories of black magic always end.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:55
farfel (STARSHINE'S POST TODAY: COPY AND SEND IT TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS!!) ID#28585:
STARSHINE'S ( 14:50 ) post today is THE BEST analogical post I have read on this forum re: the merit of gold investment. PERIOD!

Every gold- bug should make a copy and hand it out to all the financial laymen ( or experts ) who do not understand the value of gold. It is this type of article that will effectively CHANGE THE PERCEPTION regarding gold.


I hope STARSHINE will not mind that I am taking the liberty of re- posting his thoughts here:


I don’t have the numbers or the research, but I believe it to be a fair assessment that there has been more wealth ( in paper instruments ) for more individuals created in the last 5 years than in any other time in our history. Be it the myriad of new techno- geek millionaires in Silicon Valley, the highly compensated Wall Street brokers or associated other world wide wealth- laden brethren, they all will fight to keep their financial wealth, measured in purchasing power, alive. What this has created is probably the largest number of individuals in the history of the world with so much to lose. This unprecedented large number of enriched individuals and the corresponding “high center of gravity of
wealth” are the key dynamics of my message.

Consider a large population vacationing on an island where a volcano is about to erupt and two of the three airlines go out of service. The individuals will spend what ever is required to get a seat on the
remaining airline and they will care nothing about what class they are in or service they receive. In this scenario, THE GOAL IS TO PRESERVE YOUR LIFE. IMO in the current financial climate the focus is moving from appreciation to preservation. THE GOAL IS TO PRESERVE YOUR WEALTH. With
this said, we can launch into a story based as an analogy.

FLIGHT FOR LIFE

Today, many of the world’s financial lives reside on the wealthy Island De Conventional Investments. A key contributor to the island’s wealth has been the variety of vehicles for getting people to this wealthy destination. This island, only accessible by air, has several huge 300 seat/plane airlines such as Worldwide Equities Express, Currency Internationale, US Bond Airways and Asia- Pacific to name a few. The island also has some smaller, but long standing carriers such as the very small, 10 passenger/plane, history rich airline – Golden Skies ( GS ) . The airline is currently referred to as Barbaric Relic Express, because of its no- frills service. The service and amenities ( total return ) of the big airlines are the choice of the island’s population, leaving very little interest in Golden Skies. After all, these airlines brought them to this wealthy island in the first place, why change?

However, as is the rule in this world changes are in the wind. The island is in danger of total ruin from natural forces of over capacity, depression and changing materialistic values. The island’s population is
seeking alternative destinations to weather this natural financial crisis. The vehicles to these destinations are beginning to encounter their own set of problems. Asia- Pacific just went belly up and confidence in the safety of Worldwide Equities Express has been plagued by recent crashes and service problems. Most of the Island’s population are now purchasing tickets on US Bond Airways because they see it as
a safe haven for preservation of their financial lives. But additional worries may be mounting. What if US Bond Airways can not deliver on this safe haven promise? What vehicle will deliver the numerous financial lives to a safe destination? There are the smaller airlines and in particular the no frills Golden Skies. While GS doesn’t offer all of the amenities, they do have a strong historic reputation for just getting people off the island to an alternative destination of preserved purchasing power. And, even if some doubt this legacy, people are beginning to believe that at a minimum a ticket on Golden Skies will
offer a contingency. Some ponder: what if all of the other airlines terminate service? After all fleeing the Island De Conventional Investments safely and preserving ones financial life is the key. There is no loyalty to the vehicle that originally brought people to the island. However, there is a problem with Golden Skies, they have a drastically smaller number of seats than the other airlines. GS’ total capacity just could not begin to deliver the large volume of people to their destination in a timely manner. Therefore the mass of people desiring evacuation will be in a bidding war for the few seats that are
available. However, this is a small price to pay for some; for the alternative is death of one’s wealth.

Those who purchase some tickets before the rush with even part of their present wealth may later consider themselves very fortunate. Those that do nothing may suffer or at worst loose their financial lives. The average sales price for a seat on Golden Skies reaches all time highs.

While this story is not unlike the “flight from paper” premises of many a gold bug. I believe there is a key underlying difference in our current situation. While I am not an economist and don’t have the numbers at hand, I would venture an intellectual guess that there has never been in the history of this planet a scenario where so much wealth ( or perceived paper wealth ) has been created. This wealth is largely focused when you consider the entire population and it has been accumulated in a short period of time. These people are going to fight for their financial lives – count on it. And if for any reason the legs of the investment table begin to buckle and gold becomes viewed as a healthy alternative, the
results may be unprecedented. Gold has a legacy of being a monetary metal and a barometer for overall economic status. Inflation rises – gold rises, dollar falls – gold rises, etc. We all know the traditional
correlation. And of course there are the conventional supply- demand side of gold for jewelry, etc.

However, even in a deflation, when gold should be falling, the price of the metal could very well skyrocket. Why? Because the unprecedented number of potential buyers. IMO this potential wealth preservation demand of gold has never been this huge. If confidence is lost in the paper markets via currency collapse or other factors and gold begins to rise. People will want to go to that “destination”.

If even a percentage of the huge paper goes into gold, the metal may go off the map. The “barbaric” metal could find itself a beneficiary of the same speculative dynamics that have created this current worldwide economic situation. There simply is not enough capacity in this golden vehicle. Suddenly the supply- demand profile created by the desire for wealth preservation will outweigh the other fundamental dynamics traditional credited for the metal’s price movement. People generally want to go where the grass either looks greener or indeed is greener. The stakes for those in the conventional investment community are huge. This is the obvious reason why for as long as possible those that have the means will keep the grass on the golden hill brown. The media’s response from the recent gains in gold are consistent with this behavior. Across the board the networks are effectively saying “pay no
attention to the man behind the curtain, the great Oz has spoken!” If the traditional vehicles for wealth creation stall, where can people go to preserve their wealth? While I am certain there are other alternatives such as tangibles, real- estate, natural resources, and agriculture, I believe gold will be the leading contender. Gold’s value as simply insurance IMO has never been higher. Preserve your wealth
or lose it, what other choice does one have? Do you have your ticket off the island?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:54
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (STUDIO.R) ID#431263:
By the way, I'm a working stiff with a day job. Can't afford them $2500 super bowl packages to San Diego! Prefer the comforts of home anyhow. But the bottom line is that $5,000 is the equivalent of 16 ozs. of gold! 16 ozs. of gold for a weekend fling in San Diego in January- - NAW! Not a chance!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:52
IDT (DROOY) ID#228128:
Dr. Bob: The reason that I suspect that DROOY had an after- tax loss selling bounce is because it went from a 52 week high of 9 1/4 to 1 7/16. Thats 15.5% of its 52 week high. As we know most of the gold mining stocks went down a lot but few went down by that percentage.
The merger that occurred last year was also supposed to improve DROOYs lot in life. John Disney and others have commented before that they expected the higher cost producers to benefit less from a small move up in gold at these levels. In other words they shouldn't move up as much as low cost producers with increases in gold price at these depressed levels. It also follows then that they should not fall as fast as low cost producers when gold goes down further at these levels. So why did DROOY drop like a rock at the end of 97. I figured tax loss selling. Since people are expecting a bottom for gold in 98 ( perhaps its already happened ) and DROOY is argueably the most leveraged producer to higher gold prices they are stocking up now. Isn't it true that gold stocks may start to rise sometimes months before the bottom is in. If this the case here with DROOY then this one is going to be rocket. Also, even if gold falls to 250/oz we may have already seen the low for DROOY.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:48
tolerant1 (John Disney) ID#31868:
I had zero clue what gearing meant. Threw one at the wall but see I was completely off. Well, I learned something today, thanks.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:45
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (STUDIO R) ID#431263:
My computer crashed and it took a month to get it fixed. Elway is a proven loser in games of this nature. Favre is a proven winner! Elway will again fall short and miss a golden opportunity for immortality. Pack have a date with destiny to win two super bowls in a row to match the feat of the Pack in super bowls I and II. Pack not only have personal incentives to win, they want to be ranked among the best teams of all time.

And don't forget- - VINCE LOMBARDI is cheering 'em on too as are all the former Packer greats! Packers 31 Denver 17

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:45
The Hatt (Joe Rosta at CPM Group reports that LARGE FUND HOUSE bought heavily into ) ID#294232:
the gold market and that in turn produced a domino effect of BUYING INTEREST from institutional to small investors. He was most impressed with the interest from small investors which showed up in the markets from the opening bell. With weakness in currencies around the World, the Clinton crisis, the Dow treading water at best and the return of the small investor Gold once again is being eyed as a good investment tool!
With short positions in gold shares at an all time high it would appear that continued strength in Gold prices will continue to pressure the shorters into covering their positions.
This rally has been percieved as a short covering rally and if Rosta is right and the upside pressure is coming from new long positions the shorts could be in deep trouble. In just over twenty four hours from now we will begin to see the reality of our long held position. Continued strength in Asia will certainly make for an interesting opening in New York. Any opinions to these thoughts would be appreciated.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:45
vronsky (http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/oracle012298.html) ID#427357:

SOUTHEAST ASIAN SILVER SAVIOR

ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or “Go To” ) , then hit ENTER.



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:43
tolerant1 (Highrise re:12:30) ID#31868:
I can still dream.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:34
Leland (The Nick Guarino newsletter sure does make one think..) ID#31876:
The Asian crisis is our laboratory for what happens when the
U.S. market crashes. Asia gives us a unique opportunity to see
how the U.S. wreck will take place.

So come take a journey with us. This is the most important trip
of your life. Let's say you had your same net worth as now; your
same investments; your same assets. You were in the same job or
business. Except now you live in one of the first major Asian
economies to fall: South Korea.

Let's see how your portfolio would stand up, in a real- world acid
test of a crashing stock and currency market.

To start off, you are going through massive inflation. Your currency just lost 75% of its value. Food and gasoline prices tripled overnight, and are still rising.

Real estate values have plunged. The stock market has collapsed
70% . Interest rates went from 5% to 25% . ( If you can find any
money to borrow. )

How have your investments done? More important, how are you
doing?

Overnight, your savings have lost two- thirds of their value.
That's money in banks, government securities, bonds, C.D.'s,
and savings institutions. Most money market funds went completely
broke. Derivatives wiped them out.

( I'd better stop here.. )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:33
STUDIO.R (@G, Cheezeman....) ID#93232:
Watch out for Elway tomorrow...he be drivin' the cheese mower. Where the hell have you been?...like on a cheese harvest or something? Cherokee told us to short all dairy products....but, tomorrow Velveeta ( and Rotel ) Rules! Why aren't you in Saint Diego?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:33
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (Lewinksi or LEWDinski?) ID#431263:
Is that Monica Lewinksi or Monica LEWDinski? Methinks her power may come to a swift end ala Vince Foster, Brown and all other enemies of Bill!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:30
Bob M (Clinton) ID#26059:
Monica Lewinsky is now the most powerful woman in the world ( just think how Hillary must be taking that aspect of the story ) ..I would say that she has old Bill right by the nuts...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:30
6pak (Ted @ Anybody [thought you might like to know. re Cape Breton & FRENCH )) ID#335190:
Ted ! Here is a historical overview of that island.

John Cabot - 1497 - New Land for England - New England.
Search for gold and the Indies Spain, was the dominant power, secured the Pope's blessing to a division of the world between itself and Portugal. The Treaty of Tordesillas ( 1494 ) gave the Anerica's to Spain.
( Cabot: the sea is covered with fish which are caught, not merely with nets, but with baskets )

Joao Fernandez - 1499 - Portuguese - Labrador and Acadia ( Nova Scotia )

Thomas Aubert - 1508 - French - Acadia ( Nova Scotia )

Giovanni da Verrazzano - 1524 - expedition reconnoitered the coast- line between Spanish Florida and Cabot's landfall in Cape Breton. To New England he called Francesca . The country to the north he called New France

1609 - French in Acadia - Dutch on the Hudson - English in Virginia.

Anglo- French wars ( 1689- 1713; 1745- 63 ) - France surrendered Acadia ( EXCEPT for Cape Breton ) , and its share of Newfoundland, and all of Hudson Bay, to the English ( 1713 )

1718 - On Cape Breton ( Ill Royale ) New France started the massive fortress: Louisbourg. [Gibraltar of the north]

1748 - New England merchants, with the help of the British fleet, captured Fort Louisbourg. 1748 - England returned Fort Louisbourg back to New France.

1749 - England established a naval base at Halifax - The British were in a position to move once more against Cape Breton and its protecting fortress of Louisbourg. But before doing so they decided to eliminate a possible threat to their rear: the eight thousand or so French Acadian settlers who farmed the fertile marshlands of Annapolis Valley and Minas Basin. The Acadian's rich farmlands were much coveted by New Englanders.

In 1710 the New Englanders had broached the question as to whether the said French inhabitants may not be transported out of the province of Nova Scotia, to be replaced by good Protestant subjects.

1755 - Governor Lawrence of Nova Scotia decided on ruthless action, all the male inhabitants ten years or older Their lands and homes and livestock were confiscated, and put the homesteads to the torch. The prisoners were herded aboard ships, six thousand Acadians, and thousands more in the years that followed. They were dumped, penniless, in various ports along the Atlantic seaboard.

The tragedy of the Acadians burned deep into the consciousness of the French Canadians on the St. Lawrence, and was not forgotten when later their own survival as a national community was at stake.

Take Care.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:26
Bob M (Clinton) ID#26059:
It is too bad it may become neccesary to take military action against Saddam, but will Clinton be able to? It will be perceived as a diversion to take the peoples eyes off the scandal...quite literally, Clinton has now found himself between I- rock and a hardspot!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:21
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (MICKEY MOUSE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!) ID#431263:
MICKEY CANTOR to be Clinton's advisor through the mushrooming crisis! Gott im Himmel! An econcomic negotiator to make a deal with oral sex! Such an assignment! More difficult than negotiating with the Japanese, methinks!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 16:01
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (THE FORNIGATE SCENARIO ) ID#431263:
On to more serious business. Clinton will either resign or be impeached! Saddam will test US resolve and Clinton will try to save himself by responding militarily! Gore will take over the Presidency and will pardon Clinton! Democrats will experience a backlash in the elcetions this fall. Will lose control of the House to the Republicans. Gore will be a lame duck. No more bailouts for Asia! US Dollar will plunge! Gold will surge! The Euro will become the reserve currency of the world backed by Bundesbank gold and the Dow will nosedive together with Bonds. US willl enter an extended recession that willl be exacerbated by Y2k. Only hope will be a Republican landslide in 2000!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:45
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD (ONLY GREEN BAY CAN SAVE AMERICA ND THE PLANET!) ID#431263:
Well Meine Freunde, tomorrow is Super Bowl Sunday and in case you haven't noticed, due to fornigate, Asiagate etc., THE GREEN BAY PACKERS are BACK to give the donkeys from Denver a swift kick in the A__! My deepest sympathies to LGB and his hapless 49er's as well as all other NFC and AFC teams which have been humbled this year by the mighty GREEN and GOLD!

Sorry that gold is only at $300 by Super Bowl Sunday. Thought sure it would be at $444. Oh well, a Packer victory on Sunday will be sure to put in the bottom for gold and the beginning of a NEW GREEN AND GOLD BULL MARKET that will surely take gold back to its old highs and beyond! Should the Pack lose, I predict the greatest economic contraction in world history- - the meltdown of everything and a global economic war that will ultimately lead to WWIII!

So, save the world for at least a few more presidencies, PRAY FOR A PACKER VICTORY! : ) You, too my gullible LGB Freund!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:35
cherokee__A (@----ted----keeper-of-the-flame-------) ID#344308:

ted- - - - -

the european's call them hubbly- bubblies......
- - - - c'mon, you know........you put indica in one end...
and smoke signals emanate from the other....don't inhale

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:28
Ted (EB....................Excuse my fukin IGNORANCE but what is a -------------) ID#364147:
BONG?....go nics~~~~~~~~~

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:22
Ted (To Anybody---------------------------------) ID#364147:
Anybody: Did you watch Larry King last night ( with Jennifer Flowers ( hey, I can see what Willy liked!! ) ...not bad!!....maybe 'slick willy' ain't that 'bad'........eh?....Re- charts- Willy ATE em!!!...To William Jefferson ( HAR HAR ) Clinton: Bill,if yer lurchin....er lurkin...I got ONE ? for U....'Why do you have ta get CAUGHT @ every bad thingy ya do..Isiah Thomas is on... ( B- ball can't be far off....eh ) ....I miss MARV ( aren't laws meant ta be broken? ) ....Sorry TORT ( but never got into that 'respect AUTHORITY thingy'....Would You want me ( mois ) in YOUR country?- - - I ( excuse the french ( lower case ) ) fukin ( learned ta speak this way on the oil- rig- - yeah,the one off Sabine Passs Texas ) wonder if'they' will let me back across the border ( maybe chalk this up ta PARANOIA ) but am gettin nervous.....I......I......I refused entry into the armed forces durin 'Nam'..... ( I'm a communist- bastard C.O ) - - Sh!t,I had nothin against them...especially after spendin FOUR years @ the strictest ( in a place known for IT ) religious school...I SAW the light ( golden ) .....duh.....Look what FOUR years of theology,out- lining old......+ new testament,daily church...PRISON- - - did fer me ( mois ) - - - Sh!t'Almost feel like I turned into a fuk$$ 'frog' after five years ( which by- the - way ) most of which,I very much enjoyed....Almost drownin off Scaterie Island was one of the HIGH- lites of my dismal life ( hey,'we all' ( yes,I'm part southerner ) are dealt a cetain deck of cards...eh.... ) ...part of the reason I hate the pope!......Am driftin off subject....yeah ...gold...I think ( but I'm fukin STUOID- - ( duh ) ) that Bernatz was right that 277.25 is as low as 'it' will go....P.S...Excuse mois ( cause I'm ramblin ) ....but Willy has been drinkin ( I can tell ...cause his breath stinks )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:21
D.A. (those.coin.delays.are.real) ID#7568:
EB:

I went ahead and ordered your wink last week. You may have only won 27.80 ( now almost 30.00 ) but I lost a damn fortune. First they hit you with the handling fees, then you get the postage, then they add on the delivery insurance, the force majeure insurance, the excise taxes and the optional contribution to the Clinton legal defense fund ( which I had the good sense of declining ) and before you know it your talking real money. On top of all this, it seems that there is going to be a three week delay. Apparently they have to perform a background check to make sure the recipient isn't a subversive. Since they have your name and address, better lay low for a while. Between you and me, those posts about the 3500 mile hookah are not going to do your cause a whole hell of a lot of good.

I got myself a nice little pile as long as I was ordering. I like your idea about using the things for markers. I went with the 1 ounce guys thinking it would be a competitive advantage. I imagine that it might do a little more damage to a good putt than a small wink. In addition, I have always found that calling attention to the stakes involved at just the right time, can have a deleterious effect upon the opponents short stroke. A big gleaming eagle might do a better job than a little wink.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:09
vronsky (http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/butler011798.html) ID#426220:

THE END OF THE LINE... for the Silver Lease CON

Ted Butler is the world’s foremost expert in nuances, intricacies and ramifications of GOLD & SILVER LEASES. Many months ago he exposed the Central Banks’ ill use of Gold Leasing Operations. Now he shares his insightful observations regarding “the Silver Loan CON.”

“And don't be surprised with future tactics intended to derail
what promises to be a very long and sharp price UPWARD spiral for silver.”

“...there is no way that the vast bulk of silver loaned can ever be returned.”

“That was then, this is now - the silver lease CON is over! Here's
why:” the report may be read by copying & pasting the above URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or “Go To” ) , then hit ENTER.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:08
Jack (DA.......great post.....as usual) ID#252127:

Those analysts are not diging through the surface, it seems that commodities and the money substitutes ( au and ag ) are only down in the US $. Even after the big falls dollar wise, many commodities are higher in many currencies; as those currencies fell moreso against the dollar.
When one gets below the surface, inflation is far from dead here; and I'm not talking about just the inflated financials.
Last I can't see how the US debt can ever be paid without inflating it away. BAU.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 15:08
Dave in CO (@RJ - part 2.) ID#215211:
Not only is it hilarious, there is a strange coincidence.

Mary Mahoney, a Georgetown Starbucks assistant manager who was also a former WH intern during 1992 and a dem. party volunteer, was murdered in a robbery which netted no money for the killer ( s ) . According to info I found on the net, she was a lesbian. Adding to the curiosity, Chelsea Clinton visited the store sometime before the murder with her SS agents in tow according to Mahoney's mother.

Starbucks Corp. has complained to the D.C. police that, in spite of a $100,000 reward, there has been no progress in the case.

Please understand, I'm just pointing out what I read on the net. This has to be just another of those wild coincidences.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:56
EB ( ilovekitcosatmorning......Think Tanks.....) ID#22956:
******** ( secret ) Winter Gold Symposium ***************

@capebretonthinktank.com

All the great minds ( what's left of them ) were gathered together today... ( via Live video- conferencing ) .... ( complete with EB's ( very old ) Turkish hash- pipe ( with 3500 mile tubing for coast- to- coast relaxation techniques ) ....hence lgb's reference to the great sucking sound heard all across the country ( US ) . And those great minds spent the morning pouring over tha latest data, led by the Founder 'Ted of the Cape', and trusty side kick EB. Great gold minds ( not mines, Haggis ) such as Irvine- Boy and the Hep were invited to join in...they declined the invite for fear of being overwhelmed at the magnitude of sagacious thought ( and Bombasting ) and coughing.....er...... ( cough, cough ) . Ted and EB concluded a number of things, the first was to clean the bong, eh Ted? Damn lungs are killing me... Of these ( other ) great things being studied was the great double bottom. Ted and I argued and cussed and pissed and moaned ( and coughed ) for hours and came to the conclusion that it is NOT a double bottom ( I think, I must refer to my notes, for they were copious ) . We agree to disagree that it was possibly forming a reverse head and shoulders, but we need a few weeks ( or even days ) to confirm. After our ( cyber ) lunch of ( cyber ) Sheller Beans, Oris ( that was real ) vodka, and Disneys' ( something or other ) , and our mid afternoon 'session' we got back to work. The next ten minutes were quite tedious and we had to settle into some ESPN Sportscenter to bring us back to our 'centers'. Once the centers were re- established, it was back to the charts ( cause they don't lie...eventually ) ....... ( whew! ) ...... ( sweat pouring ) ........With sweated armpits and minds realing from all the 'implications' concluded ( not making sense now ) , we finally did decide that it was back to ole turkish- bong for us ( more Great sucking sounds across US ) . By the time we were finished with this 'tank' we were definitely 'tanked'.......and we decided nothing. So it just goes to show you....even the greats are wrong...

...who will be right...

I would like to add that these next few months will be very exciting times for ole goldy, eh? And the charts will have told us which way to go ( make no mistakes about it ) . Hindsight will be cruel to some and delicious to others....but remember this, it is always 20/20...

...¡OhM¥!

aWaY

Éßvidiot


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:50
StarShine (Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, the Great Oz has spoken!) ID#290219:
I don’t have the numbers or the research, but I believe it to be a fair assessment that there has been more wealth ( in paper instruments ) for more individuals created in the last 5 years than in any other time in our history. Be it the myriad of new techno- geek millionaires in Silicon Valley, the highly compensated Wall Street brokers or associated other world wide wealth- laden brethren, they all will fight to keep their financial wealth, measured in purchasing power, alive. What this has created is probably the largest number of individuals in the history of the world with so much to lose. This unprecedented large number of enriched individuals and the corresponding “high center of gravity of wealth” are the key dynamics of my message.

Consider a large population vacationing on an island where a volcano is about to erupt and two of the three airlines go out of service. The individuals will spend what ever is required to get a seat on the remaining airline and they will care nothing about what class they are in or service they receive. In this scenario, THE GOAL IS TO PRESERVE YOUR LIFE. IMO in the current financial climate the focus is moving from appreciation to preservation. THE GOAL IS TO PRESERVE YOUR WEALTH. With this said, we can launch into a story based as an analogy.

FLIGHT FOR LIFE

Today, many of the world’s financial lives reside on the wealthy Island De Conventional Investments. A key contributor to the island’s wealth has been the variety of vehicles for getting people to this wealthy destination. This island, only accessible by air, has several huge 300 seat/plane airlines such as Worldwide Equities Express, Currency Internationale, US Bond Airways and Asia- Pacific to name a few. The island also has some smaller, but long standing carriers such as the very small, 10 passenger/plane, history rich airline – Golden Skies ( GS ) . The airline is currently referred to as Barbaric Relic Express, because of its no- frills service. The service and amenities ( total return ) of the big airlines are the choice of the island’s population, leaving very little interest in Golden Skies. After all, these airlines brought them to this wealthy island in the first place, why change?

However, as is the rule in this world changes are in the wind. The island is in danger of total ruin from natural forces of over capacity, depression and changing materialistic values. The island’s population is seeking alternative destinations to weather this natural financial crisis. The vehicles to these destinations are beginning to encounter their own set of problems. Asia- Pacific just went belly up and confidence in the safety of Worldwide Equities Express has been plagued by recent crashes and service problems. Most of the Island’s population are now purchasing tickets on US Bond Airways because they see it as a safe haven for preservation of their financial lives. But additional worries may be mounting. What if US Bond Airways can not deliver on this safe haven promise? What vehicle will deliver the numerous financial lives to a safe destination? There are the smaller airlines and in particular the no frills Golden Skies. While GS doesn’t offer all of the amenities, they do have a strong historic reputation for just getting people off the island to an alternative destination of preserved purchasing power. And, even if some doubt this legacy, people are beginning to believe that at a minimum a ticket on Golden Skies will offer a contingency. Some ponder: what if all of the other airlines terminate service? After all fleeing the Island De Conventional Investments safely and preserving ones financial life is the key. There is no loyalty to the vehicle that originally brought people to the island. However, there is a problem with Golden Skies, they have a drastically smaller number of seats than the other airlines. GS’ total capacity just could not begin to deliver the large volume of people to their destination in a timely manner. Therefore the mass of people desiring evacuation will be in a bidding war for the few seats that are available. However, this is a small price to pay for some; for the alternative is death of one’s wealth. Those who purchase some tickets before the rush with even part of their present wealth may later consider themselves very fortunate. Those that do nothing may suffer or at worst loose their financial lives. The average sales price for a seat on Golden Skies reaches all time highs.

While this story is not unlike the “flight from paper” premises of many a gold bug. I believe there is a key underlying difference in our current situation. While I am not an economist and don’t have the numbers at hand, I would venture an intellectual guess that there has never been in the history of this planet a scenario where so much wealth ( or perceived paper wealth ) has been created. This wealth is largely focused when you consider the entire population and it has been accumulated in a short period of time. These people are going to fight for their financial lives – count on it. And if for any reason the legs of the investment table begin to buckle and gold becomes viewed as a healthy alternative, the results may be unprecedented. Gold has a legacy of being a monetary metal and a barometer for overall economic status. Inflation rises – gold rises, dollar falls – gold rises, etc. We all know the traditional correlation. And of course there are the conventional supply- demand side of gold for jewelry, etc. However, even in a deflation, when gold should be falling, the price of the metal could very well sky rocket. Why? Because the unprecedented number of potential buyers. IMO this potential wealth preservation demand of gold has never been this huge. If confidence is lost in the paper markets via currency collapse or other factors and gold begins to rise. People will want to go to that “destination”. If even a percentage of the huge paper goes into gold, the metal may go off the map. The “barbaric” metal could find itself a beneficiary of the same speculative dynamics that have created this current worldwide economic situation. There simply is not enough capacity in this golden vehicle. Suddenly the supply- demand profile created by the desire for wealth preservation will outweigh the other fundamental dynamics traditional credited for the metal’s price movement. People generally want to go where the grass either looks greener or indeed is greener. The stakes for those in the conventional investment community are huge. This is the obvious reason why for as long as possible those that have the means will keep the grass on the golden hill brown. The media’s response from the recent gains in gold are consistent with this behavior. Across the board the networks are effectively saying “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, the great Oz has spoken!” If the traditional vehicles for wealth creation stall, where can people go to preserve their wealth? While I am certain there are other alternatives such as tangibles, real- estate, natural resources, and agriculture, I believe gold will be the leading contender. Gold’s value as simply insurance IMO has never been higher. Preserve your wealth or lose it, what other choice does one have? Do you have your ticket off the island?


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:48
oris (John Disney) ID#238422:
John, here is a wonderful recipe, I believe
not known at all to Western world.

Take a good ripe watermelon, and inject 2- 4 oz.
of vodka inside, use surenge with long needle
to reach the center of watermelon. Let it
brew for 12- 16 hours in cold place.

Then eat this drunk watermelon like usual.

Do not drive after, it's a time bomb...

Tomato salad is coming very soon...

Sandvik lab gives me strange info for Monday.
It can go either way BIG time. But they now
confirm +20 from the current level within
a week. I am thrilled...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:47
SDRer__A (Carl, particularly take a look at the Mexican 'oil report' and the countries it lists as BIG players) ID#287277:



Oil reserves are large and widely dispersed. In general, development is concentrated on deposits readily accessible from major industrial and population centers ( see fig. __, Fuels, Power, Minerals, and Metals, 1983 ) . Deposits in remote areas such as the Tarim, Junggar, and Qaidam basins, remain largely unexplored. The quality of oil from the major deposits varies
considerably. A few deposits, like the Shengli field, produce low- quality oil suitable mainly as fuel. Most of the oil produced in China from the big fields in the north and northeast is heavy, low in sulphur,

Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores
Dirección General de Análisis Económico
II. INFORMACION DE MEXICO
INDICE
EL MERCADO PETROLERO MEXICANO
LVIII ANIVERSARIO DE LA EXPROPIACION PETROLERA
NOTICIAS RELEVANTES DE MEXICO

Translated- - to state the obvious )
When extracting 3,062 mbd of total hydrocarbons in 1995, including 2,618
mbd of crude petroleum in 1995, PEMEX was placed again like the fourth
world- wide company in production, after the state companies of Saudi
Arabia, Iran and China, and contributed around 5% of the total supply of
petroleum in the world. ( 6 and 7 See Graphical ) .

http://www.quicklink.com/mexico/gob96mar/cp2.htm


Oil reserves are large and widely dispersed. In general, development is concentrated on deposits readily accessible from major industrial and population centers ( see fig. __, Fuels, Power, Minerals, and Metals, 1983 ) . Deposits in remote areas such as the Tarim, Junggar, and Qaidam basins, remain largely unexplored. The quality of oil from the major deposits varies considerably. A few deposits, like the Shengli field, produce low- quality oil suitable mainly as fuel. Most of the oil produced in China from the big fields in the north and northeast is heavy, low in sulphur... from US Army Handbook- - China


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:45
STUDIO.R (@D.A. re:your 14:13...) ID#93232:
I've placed my bet. Great post. Note that the rise in commodity prices need not be a reflection of increased demand or decreased supply. Concise and correct, sir....money is gregarious...get out of its united way.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:39
sweat (D A) ID#23782:
Top notch analysis. Thanks

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:36
HighRise (Time For A Change?) ID#401460:
Just for the Record, lest I be misunderstood:

I have always given President Clinton credit for being extremely politically agile. The Man can move around and side step more problems than any other Politician in History. He has an incredible grasp of how to manipulate the English language; you add to this his fantastic photographic memory with a gift to BS and IMHO he is the best Politician ever to sit in the White House. It has been these Clinton strengths that have kept the American and even the World economy afloat for the last six years.

It is important to remember that one of the best things he has done, is not to have come into office and messed up the successful economic status quo that existed - A good economy that was created during the Reagan and Bush years. As Governor of Arkansas, Clinton enjoyed two terms, during the good years of Reagan and Bush. Bush had a slight down turn near the end of his term and that hurt him - Clinton took advantage of this, even though the charts show that the economy had started to improve prior to the election. Clinton’s leadership ability has never been tested during a bad economic environment.

My point is this, Nixon and many other politicians could have survived adversity if there popularity had remained high. Clinton’s popularity is dropping, but as we all know he can turn that around with a smile and a tear for the “soccer moms”; Clinton’s problem, as with his predecessors, is that if the US Economy starts to go into the toilet, His popularity will drop not because of infidelity but because his constituency is hurting in the pocket book.
The Dow dropped 40 % after Watergate.

IMHO, it does look like He has lost control of the entire situation. He almost had the questionable IMF Bailout deal closed, when this Monica situation came up. Now his fragile credibility has been called into question again at the same time the American people are saying they want no part of this Asia bailout. Asia, Europe, the Mid East and the rest of the World can see that the safety net has disappeared. Just look at what the Mid- East had to witness this week, their leaders VISIBLY sitting with the leader of the free world answering questions not about world peace but about Sex, Adultery, Perjury, Obstruction of Justice, Etc.

Clinton’s balancing act of supporting and selling the US Bonds may have come to an end, as witnessed by the increase in the Bond interest rates this week. As the Clinton Economic Bubble breaks, so will his popularity, and unfortunately for everyone we may all go down with him.

The question therefore is, with the US$ falling and Bond Rates rising, where will everyone go to find a “SAFE HAVEN”. The Media didn’t use that term at all yesterday, they didn’t even notice Gold hitting $300. The Media seems to always be the last to know; as they were with Clinton they will be with Gold.

I have been worried for seven or more years about the US economy and debt situation. The Country is unfortunately broke. I have felt for several months that the Asian problem might bring the US down but until recently I really felt that President Clinton, Secretary Rubin, Goldman Sachs and the Boys were going to pull us out of this mess. Who would ever guessed that there would be another BIMBO scandal that would bring down the Presidency.

Obviously some people new that this Monica thing was coming down - many were Clinton appointees, the FBI’s Louis Free ( sp ) and the Justice Dept.’s Janet Reno for example approved the wire. So don’t anyone say it was the Republicans. As I have said many times here, it has nothing to do with political parties - the Rockefellers are in both.

Clinton has outlived his usefulness, ie. he was unable to get the last trade deal past and has the distinct possibility of not getting the necessary IMF funding past Congress; and now he has conveniently become an embarrassment to them. He is being taken out of the game. Cabinet member Robert Rubin was conspicuously absent from the Cabinet Member Press conference Friday. And, you all know who his partners are.

I now have to go and batten down the hatches on my home and business in an attempt to weather the oncoming economic storm. I wish all of the Kitco people the best, may God be with us.

HighRise




Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:35
aurator (Peckergate) ID#257148:

RJ Best yet...ROTFL

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:34
Dr. BOB (Thanks IDT and JOHN DISNEY) ID#270295:
Your VERACIOUS and verbose commentary is extremely entertaining, factual, accurate, and informative.......Just a bit mean- spirited though.... I LIKE it!!!!!! Ps to all.. I can't remember who gave this site but it seems to have info. on about any GOLD co. Find index and click the first letter of the name of the company and Pooof your there!!! e.g. Durban Deep Click D http://goldsheet.simplenet.com/

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:28
jcw (D.A. - thanks for your thoughts) ID#253389:
I appreciate the time you put into your post. It does appear the only way out of this economic mess is reflation - and the signs are that's what's occurring. It would be hard to conceive of any significant deflation when the powers that be most certainly will exert their power to print their way out of the corner they've backed us all into.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:26
RJ (..... Eyes Only: The President Of The United States #2 .....) ID#411259:

I'm glad you enjoyed the screening of Wag the Dog. Good to see you laugh but, to borrow a line from the film, The fit has hit the shan. Goddamned movie castrates us. It takes most of our best options and makes a mockery of them. The whole war scenario is out. Even if Saddam Husien bombed New York with anthrax, any response on our part is certain to be viewed as nothing but a diversion. No, we need to circle the wagons and get creative.

The FBI has……..The Girl…… Jeeeze, they even took her diary and computer! Is there anything else I need to know, Bill? She cut a deal with Starr today to squeal like a goat and is surely bleating out your downfall as you read this. They got her locked up tighter than Fankie Pantangeles and there is just no way to get at her. I haven't found a way in yet, but I got the IRS out in LA all over her Dad; maybe we can get some leverage there. Listen, Bubba: Did you call this little chippie over Christmas? What the hell were you thinking man, how many smoking guns are there?

Johnny Cochran, Robert Bork, and I spent the night in a fog of cigarette smoke and bad coffee breath. This is a crack team and you would be proud of some of our more Machiavellian constructs, but I gotta admit, it was Rocco who came up with the winner. The great thing about his idea is that we can leave the snipers at home, don't need 'em. I think we ought buy Rocco a ship or a jet or an island or some damn thing, the guy is an animal, and he is as loyal as a dog. He would die for me.

It is beginning to look like there is only one way out of this thing: We blame it on Hillary. Stay with me here, this is good. There is an old adage in politics that best describes a commanding lead in the polls: The only thing that would keep this guy from being elected is if he were found in bed with a dead girl, or a live boy. Lets run with this line of reasoning a bit. Thank God this whole thing is about a girl and not a boy, and she is still breathing so we are way ahead on that point.

Here's the plan: We admit everything. Yes, The Girl visited the White House at hours that are impossible to explain. Yes, The Girl received many gifts from the White House. Yes, The Girl made calls to, and received calls from the White House. It is simply impossible to get away from these facts. So we cop to them all. Yep….. we admit to all of it. Call a press conference to confirm all their suspicions. I wish I could be there to see their faces, the White House press core has seen it all, but they've never seen this. This will knock them on their collective asses.

The Girl was not calling you, but she was calling. The Girl received gifts from the White House, but they were not from you. The Girl visited the White House at all hours, but was not visiting you. She was there to see……….Hillary…….. Heeee Heeee…….. Isn't this great? Damn right there was an affair, but it was your wife who had it! I've already spoken to Janet Reno who will admit to an ongoing affair with Hillary. The IRS pressure on The Girl's Dad will get him to confirm a certain sexually ambiguity about his Daughter.

Don't worry about Hillary, Rocco spent some time with her last night and she seems in a mood to cooperate. All you have to do is that puppy dog misty eye thing you do, and be the victim husband. This will fly. You'll see………

OK

RJ

PS

Got a signed and undated letter of resignation from Vern Jordon, so we can move him out whenever we want. This is getting fun……………


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:26
The Hatt (EB ( IF SOMEONE HAD TOLD YOU GOLD WOULD MOVE $9.00 ON )) ID#294232:
FRIDAY I AM SURE YOUR RESPONSE WOULD OF BEEN THE SAME. SO IF YOU ARE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT THE SHORTS ARE NOT IN A VERY RISKY POSITION HERE THATS YOUR OPINION AND AS I HAVE ALWAYS MAINTAINED TIME WILL TELL! IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU THINK THE LIQUIDITY IN THE GOLD MARKET WILL REMAIN AT CURRENT LEVELS AND THAT IS WHERE WE TAKE DIFFERENT ROADS. A SHORT SQUEEZE HERE WOULD HAVE A DEVASTATING EFFECT ON LIQUIDITY THAT COULD FOR THE TIME BEING MAKE GOLD THE INVESTMENT INSTRUMENT IT WAS MEANT TO BE! I SUPPOSE YOUR OPINION ON THE DOW MIRRORS YOUR OBVIOUS BELIEF THAT LIQUIDITY WILL REMAIN UNCHANGED AND THE MARKET WILL RETREAT IN AN ORDERLY FASHION. GUESS WE WILL SEE!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:25
John Disney__A (Gearing is like this) ID#24135:
for Speed

Gearing means that the earnings and thus the price of the

stock is very sensitive to the price of gold. For example

a mine with a HIGH cost is more highly geared that a low

cost mine - Why = earnings ( and price of stock ) are a direct

function of Revenue minus cost. Take a mine with a 100 $ cost

per oz and raise the gold price from 300 to 350 - earnings

go up 250/200 or 25 per cent. Now take a geared mine with

a cost of 275 and do the same thing. Earnings go up from

25$ to 75 $/per oz - ie 3 times !!!!! thats the reason

DDeep will do a lot better tha abx in a strong gold market.

Second reason - if a mines has its gold sold forward

for several years then it will be insensitive to a rise/or

a fall in the gold price - An unhegded mine's revenue varies

directly with the gold price so its is more geared -

thats a second reason for DDeep attractiveness - It is

mostly unhedged - I hope that is clear


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:13
D.A. (whats.next) ID#7568:
All:

The worlds infatuation with the deflation story continues to grow. It's pretty hard to pick up a financial newspaper or magazine and not see some discussion about the coming deflation and how to protect yourself from its consequences. The stories do not concern themselves so much with whether or not there will be a deflation, as much as with how to deal with it from an investment standpoint. That there will be deflation is a given.

The conclusions of most of these stories are that bonds are the prefered investment, with stocks being not so good, and commodities being the absolute bottom of the barrel. In all the time I have followed the markets ( getting on two decades ) , I have never seen such a strong consensus for an outcome which is most certainly a long shot.

The reason for this mismatch between perception and reality lies in the nature of the price movements of those things that traditionally signal inflation and deflation. Since the beginings of the SE Asian crisis in the middle of last summer there has been a precipitous decline in worldwide commodity prices in dollar terms. Concurrently there has been a massive rally in worldwide government bond markets. These two pricing events must be accounted for in any story which conveys what has happened in world markets. What gets tricky, is to decide if the explanation for these events is just an explanation of what has already happened or whether the underlying theme of the story is valid for the future.

The decline in commodity prices in US dollar terms has been caused by a few forces. First has been a rise in the value of the US dollar relative to all other currencies in the world, second has been a worldwide decline in commodity prices due to the destocking that has taken place in SE Asia and finally there has been speculative selling by those believing the trend will continue.

The rise in worldwide bond markets has as its causes two main effects. The first has been a reallocation of assets out of equities and into bonds, the second, and extremely important, has been an increase in global liquidity engineered by central banks to counteract the liquidity contractions in SE Asia.

Going forward, the questions are then whether or not these effects are going to continue.

On the commodity side, it is pretty clear that any destocking which has gone on must certainly be at or near an end. With there being a massive liquidity squeeze in SE Asia, any pile of commodities which could be converted into hard currency has been liquidated. When the governments are out trying to collect earrings from their citizens you can be sure that there are not great piles of nickel, copper or oil hanging around.

The strength in the dollar over the past six months can be attributed to a few things. First, and perhaps foremost, has been the strength of the US economy in relation to the rest of the major economies of the world. Strong US growth, coupled with relatively high interest rates have drawn capital into this country. In addition there has been a strong flight to quality move from capital held in the collapsing currencies of SE Asia. Going forward, European economies are accelerating so the gap between US and European growth rates is narrowing. Interest rate spreads have remained relatively constant. As with commodity destocking, any capital in SE Asia that has exited to the safe haven of the US dollar has already done so.

The other obvious negative for the dollar at this time is the political front. It seems pretty clear that Clinton is not going to be impeached. The only impeachable offense he may have committed revolves around his instructing his mistress to lie under oath. In the best case scenario for the prosecution his mistress will have to recant her sworn affidavit and then swear that she was pressured into signing it by Clinton. I am not sure of the impeachment standards but would presume them to be as stringent as the standards in any criminal case, namely proof beyond a reasonable doubt. By this standard it would seem quite difficult to convict someone of a crime based upon the testimony of one individual who would be an acknowledged and admitted liar. The outcome where the president remains under a cloud of suspicion, with an incensed group of Republicans who have seen him slip away from their grasp one more time, may actually be the worst possible case for the dollar. The continued infighting and confrontation may give the appearance of a completely disfunctional government and undermine investment confidence in dollar denominated assets. With the Q3 of 1997 seeing the strongest ever purchasing spree of our bonds by Europeans, this could cause a pretty strong reversal.

The liquidity growth that we have seen over the past 6- 9 months shows no signs of abating. M3 in the US is still growing at near double digit rates over the quarter. With an economy growing in the 3 - 3.5 % range and reported inflation at around 2.5 % this points to excessive credit creation. The reason for this excess credit creation is simply that the price of assets is rising fast enough so that it makes sense to capitalize them at the current low interest rates and invest the proceeds into yet more assets. In the US real estate prices are rising strongly and are probably contributing mightily to this effect. While continued liquidity growth will help financial assets, utimately investors will figure out that the returns in the bond market are not sufficient given the real asset price inflation occuring in the rest of the economy. This will cause a shift out of the bond assets and further exacerbate the increase in physical asset prices, mostly real estate. To the extent that commodities become a 'safe haven' for some of this excess liquidity they too will rise strongly. Note that the rise in commodity prices need not be a reflection of increased industrial demand or decreased supply. There may be strong investment demand just as a way to store wealth. Given the relative size of tradeable commodity markets to the tidal wave of liquidiity, the rise in certain commodities could be extraordinary.

In conclusion, expectations for the world markets are at extremes not seen for nearly 20 years. The last time there was such a strong consensus about the overall direction of prices was back in the late seventies and early eighties when everyone 'knew' that gold, oil, silver and land were the things you 'had' to own in order to preserve and increase your wealth. Bonds offered a return of 14% but that was not seen as enough to compensate for the expected increases in prices of all things. Now with bonds yielding under 6 percent and commodity prices scraping along multiyear lows the everyone 'knows' that deflation is in the cards. Place your bets.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:12
Ted (@ I hate SHAQ.......................and what time does NBC BASKETBALL start(I'm too damn LAZY ta -) ID#364147:
look it up....eh!!- - - - Just can't stomach 'SHAQ' and Van Axcels- - - But ( I ) luv Peter Munk ( almost as much as Mickey Mantle!! ) ....bbl ( back to head+shoulders 'stage'.... )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:11
STUDIO.R (@Soul Bugs....here's my gold post for this day....Bart...) ID#93232:
Studio's Investment Idea of The Day...move on down to da coin shop....sell one eagle, maple or fillie...take cash and get on down to Tower or Blockbuster...buy thirty copies of James Brown The CD of JB....hoarde soul.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:07
Ted (AURATOR.............................and I don't believe in -----------------) ID#364147:
INSULTS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~bouchard suks

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:03
EB (Hatt Man Do Man) ID#22956:
The Gold shorters have made sooooooooooo damn much money during the last 18 months ( or so ) and their bank accounts are so FULL that they can afford to get their fingers burned a bit. They are not too worried about covering themselves ( imo ) . Monday will give them plenty of chance to do so ( if they want ) . The gold market is very liquid and covering ( buying back shorts ) will be easy. Gold opening at 325.....monday morning...that was a good one, yuk, yuk. Keep 'em coming...

away

Éßshuckin& jivin

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:03
SDRer__A (Carl my friend.,) ID#287277:
You never disappoint!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 14:01
Ted (Studio.R............................sometimes tryin ta read tea leaves is-----------) ID#364147:
DIFFICULT..........there will be an anwser.....let it beeeeee...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:59
Ted (EB.....................................and how can (I) be so STUPID.......of course acapulco--) ID#364147:
GOLD......I leave in shame...........to think ( or try to )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:57
STUDIO.R (EB/Tedopolous...JB on Humboldt....whata whhoooaa whata did he say to us?) ID#93232:
What's the use of carin'...if no one's sharin...pass the peace, please...I got da feelin', yea! Baaabbbby, babbbyy, babbbby. Ooowwwwhhh! Maybe the last time...I break this heart of stone...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:56
Ted (James Brown-------------------he da ------------) ID#364147:
MAN~~~~~~~~~~~~To Peter Munk: Do WHATEVER has to be done ta boost the price of ABX!!! Screw legalities....I want MORE money god damn- it!!! christ ya know it ain't easy....from paris ta the amsterdam hilton...they're goin ta crucify ME ( mois to 'frogs' ( I learned somethin in five years!! SEL DE TABLE= SALT ( I'm no idiot...cause I learn! ) ...I luv buyin my 'wheaties' ( with m.jordan on the box ) and readin french...not that I have anything against the french ( lower case ) ....eh...geez...am driftin off the subject @ hand....Yes Ted,this is a gold dicussion group!!....'Plow- man' just stopped over to collect for last two ( ) or more snow ployin jobs ( 1.34 miles ( round trip ) ....I think ( duh ) ...he thought I'd ( not mois ) been drinkin...'they made their way across the universe'...eh

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:50
The Hatt (What are the shorts thinking about this weekend?) ID#294232:
This time all the spin doctoring may have come to late as you have to know that many shorts have found themselves in one very difficult situation. The risk reward ratios of their positions are now in question and for good reason. Do i cover today? What if gold opens at $325.00 will
I have a chance to cover? Should I try to cover on the pullbacks? Is this
just a technical rally? Maybe I should add to my short position? What if
Clinton resigns? What if the U.S. Dollar tanks? What about Iraq? What if
Indonesia Defaults? What if the bonds tank? What if the eu ends up at 20% ?
As I read the posts today I seem to get this underlying current that many donot see this latest move as real significant. Perhaps if you are long which most of us are it is to be expected, however put some thought into what is going through the minds of those who are short. Barrons article this weekend will be a ray of hope for the shorts and believe me their thoughts will be focused on timing! Should I have been less greedy and covered at $285.00? The pain has left our corner and now the time has arrived where the faith and the investment accumen of the SHORTS WILL BE TESTED!!!!!!!!!!! The spring has been wound tight and we have been discussing the reactions for months now so sit back and enjoy the greatest ever short squeeze and the end of the gold bear! My Humble Opinion!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:48
EB (ok......) ID#22956:
then Humbolt it is.....but to stay in the confines of this discussion group...how about I bring Acapulco Gold instead

away...to call my farming friends

Éß


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:45
EB (Gotta Love the ) ID#22956:
Tricky Dickster. He was my man!!!

away...to pay tribute to a great Californian

Éß

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:44
Ted (Hey Allen......................................DOW----------------10,000) ID#364147:
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:43
Ted (EB....................and what ta bring.......how bout some of that---------------) ID#364147:
Hombolt ( sp..but fuk it ) county 'stuff'~~~~~~~~~~~go team gold- - - get back ta where ya once belonged.....get back JO- JO.......

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:41
Allen(USA) (Unexpected things will happen ..) ID#246224:
so be prepared.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:38
STUDIO.R (@Earl....swirl.....dance...it's a trance.....pass the peas, please...) ID#93232:
I am not in position to dictate...not even formulate...I can only concentrate to motivate you to speculate a United State ten spot on the acquisitionate of the James Brown The CD of JB...not to wait... away...you mustn't hesitate...it's not too late to hear the master of insanerate...stay in school...oooowwwllll....lickin' stick....OOOOwwwwllll! don't think...man made delectric light to take us outta dark

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:35
EB (DaveinCO..........and Ted's impressive list......) ID#22956:
Dave - I am a firm believer in: you make your own bed......., now the question remains....who is 'sleepin' in Bill- Babys bed? And who cares.....not I.

Ted, can I come to the cocktail party? It looks like a good guest list. Plenty to talk about and eat I imagine ( I'll be wearing kevlar boxers when talking to Jeffrey ) . I'll bring the 'twister' game....you supply the oil. StudioR can play guitar and bang the coconut bongos.....oh my. Ole Jack Baby and I can share 'conquests'.....he probably beats me hands down. That lady- killer... What should I bring

away...to stock up on party favors

Éß

go gold...go Elway...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:34
Ted (EB......just for YOUR information on naming ONE prez that was NOT unscruoulous-TRY) ID#364147:
RICHARD MILLHOUSE NIXON...............geezzzzzzzzzzzzzz....Spiro weren't too 'bad' either....back to double bottom stage on gold charts..bbl- - - GO NICS!!!! ( I miss Marv Albert ( what did he do wrong )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:29
Earl (From last nites proceedings.) ID#227238:
Mozel: You continue to fire on all cylinders. Keep up the good work. It's interesting to note that some are unable or unwilling to accept the scope and implications of what you are saying. Probably in the belief that the material can be maintained and even expanded, indefinitely, at the expense of those elemental particles that make civilized living possible.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:24
Ted (ameriKans I ADMIRE(in no special order.....eh)) ID#364147:
TED Bundy;TED Kazinsky; TED Kennedy; 'Jack baby'; Jeffrey Dahlmer; Lee Harvey Oswald; Charles ( my main- man ) Manson; Monica Lewinski; and last but NOT least,Bill Clinton.......go team gold ( we're behind but don't count us out.....eh )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:19
Earl (@Pod people.) ID#227238:
Studio R: LOL. You have that new age crap down to a science. ...... That short offering lowered my blood pressure to point where I fell out of my chair. .... maybe it was from laughter.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:13
Dave in CO (@EB - A little dirt on other presidents?) ID#215211:
If the others have a little dirt on them, we'll see after this is over if you can dig your president out of the mud. Unfortunately, we'll never know the extent of his crimes.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 13:11
Carl (SDRer, on sale of Australia's gold.) ID#333131:
Let me guess: China?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:53
STUDIO.R (@Be EB...just be...not he...not me....not she.....just be...EB...see...) ID#93232:
Burst open that coconut under you sandal...let the ron flow within...slowly swish...and blow...flow down the gentle golden waters of our peace river.....relax....you know you're more than alright...you know you're outa' sight! unmoving clouds fixed in a spinning sky...they told us wrong. enjoin.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:52
EB (BobM...right again...) ID#22956:
Yes, we both agree that the past is not destined to repeat itself....but it has happened soooooo many times before. I imagine that this is why the phrase history repeats itself' came about. It is never a good idea to ignore the past....but we must keep our eyes focused ahead.

Nothing endures but change

Heraclitus

away...to change the CD

Éßmightaswellbewalkingonthesun

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:51
IV (To MoReGoLd: Re US CB) ID#420428:
How does a person find out how much gold the US CB is buying and selling? Where are these figures published? Could they be buying up cheap gold unofficially?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:45
Avalon (leavinguntilmondaymorningseeyouallthen; happyaustraliadaydowunder !) ID#254269:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:45
Bob M (EB) ID#26059:
Have a good day EB, and I hope the Broncos win, I want to see the Wall Street Bulls squirm a little....

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:43
EB (BobM@12:14) ID#22956:
Tis true about Prezies with agendas. Has been since this office existed. Name ONE prez ( US ) that was NOT unscrupulous in one way or another.....just ONE. I bet that I can find dirt on them all. And I am sure that Haggis could, right Haggy

and Haggy- Baby....I am sorry for being so UScentric, but....well, who do you think moves these markets anyway Kalgooooooooooooorie!?AYE?!? uh uh...

away...to my agendas for today

Éßmowinglawnsnadcleaningbathrooms

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:42
Bob M (EB) ID#26059:
Past history means absolutely nothing to what will happen tommorrow...just like the football game to be played...it is a new day tommorrow the players are different, the field is different, the only constant is the basic game is the same...anything can happen...the same applies to markets..past history has been thrown out the window in the equity markets over the last 15 years..I am not saying that history cannot repeat..but the only constant I have found in this life is that the only thing that is permanent, is change

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:39
JIN (NO HOLIDAYS IN BALI.....PLEASE! SEX SCANDAL WHOLE NITE AT THE T.V PROGRAMME....) ID#206358:
eRRRRRRRRRRRR,
whole nite the t.v programmes full of the sex scandals from the mr.C!Try to shief the sight from the financial turmaoil to him?!or one of the tactic to drive down the dollars $!
BALI?Holidays heaven one,but not now:Indonesia is Stable

Saturday January 24, 1:13 am Eastern Time FOCUS- Moslem party backs Suharto, banks to
merge By Lewa Pardomuan JAKARTA, Jan 24 ( Reuters ) - Indonesia's President Suharto has won
further support towards unanimous re- election for a seventh term in office with the endorsement by
the country's second largest political party.

The move gives the 76- year- leader crucial Moslem backing at a time of growing economic turmoil
and unprecedented calls for Suharto to step down at the end of his present term.

Antara news agency reported on Saturday that the Moslem- based United Development Party
( PPP ) had expressed its support for Suharto. Earlier this month, the ruling Golkar party, basically
made up from the country's bureaucracy, named Suharto as its candidate in the March presidential
poll.

The president let it be known last Tuesday he was prepared to stand for a seventh five- year term in
office despite questions about his age and health and growing concern over his leadership.

The only other legal party, the Christian- Nationalist Indonesian Democratic Party ( PDI ) , has still to
name its candidate, although its ousted dissident leader Megawati Sukarnoputri has thrown her hat
into the ring.

Suharto, in power since 1965, had always been expected to be re- elected by the largely ceremonial
1000- member People's Consultative Assembly if he stood. But he has come under pressure to step
down over perceptions he has mismanaged attempts to drag Indonesia out of its financial mess.

Suharto has unveiled a series of economic reforms over the past 10 days under an agreement with
the International Monetary Fund ( IMF ) in return for a $43 billion bail- out. The IMF reform package
has so far failed to check a plunge in the rupiah currency.

Four banks, including the large privately owned Bank Umum Nasional and middle- ranking Bank
Duta said on Saturday they would merge to create ``a solid and healthy bank.''

The government is pushing the country's more than 200 private banks into mergers as part of its
reform of the shaky financial system.

Bank Duta director Muchtar Mandala said the new bank would have assets of about 21 trillion
rupiah ( $1.55 billion ) .

Indonesia signed a fresh economic reform deal with the IMF on January 15, which superseded a
package agreed last October. The government was widely seen as backsliding on the initial reform
agreement.

Following the PPP's move to back Suharto, Antara quoted party officials as saying it had also made
a list of candidates for vice- president, including Research and Technology Minister Jusuf Habibie,
incumbent Vice- President Try Sutrisno and Planning Minister Ginanjar Kartasasmita.

Other vice- presidential candidates include Information Minister Hartono and army chief- of- staff
General Wiranto, diplomats have said.

During last May's general elections, won easily by Golkar, the PPP was highly critical of government
policy, dwelling particularly on the issue of corruption, and even threatened to refuse to endorse the
polling results.

The Jakarta Post newspaper on Saturday quoted armed forces chief of socio- political affairs
Lieutenant- General Yusuf Yosfiah as saying the military welcomed either a military or civilian figure
for the vice- presidential post.

Speculation has mounted the big- spending Habibie, who also heads the country's aircraft maker
which had its state funding cancelled under the agreement with the IMF, might be a leading
contender and therefore Suharto's possible successor.

But diplomatic analysts say Habibie's past relations with the military have been strained over his
control of weapons procurement and strategic industries.

The announcement of a fresh bank merger plan on Saturday indicated the country was moving
ahead to try to consolidate its banking industry, which is hobbled by bad debts.

Apart from Bank Umum Nasional and Bank Duta, the other two involved in the plan are unlisted
Bank Bukopin and Bank Tugu.

``The aim of this merger is to create a solid and healthy bank with advanced technology,'' Bank
Duta's Mandala said. He said the merged institution would hopefully be established by June.

Last Sunday, Bank International Indonesia, a major private bank, said it would merge with four
other banks.

The crux of Indonesia's woes is its private sector debt.

Analysts have slammed the government for not showing enough leadership on the corporate debt
mess, which has hampered firms and threatens to drive the economy into the ground.

They have said foreign corporate debt - - $66 billion out of total external debt of $140 billion - - was
virtually impossible to pay off given the rupiah's plunge.

The fragile rupiah ended in Jakarta on Friday at 13,000/13,500 after falling to a day's low of
15,000.

On Thursday, it crashed to a historic low of 17,000, compared with 2,400 against the dollar last
July when the region's currency woes began.

Highlighting regional concern over Indonesia's predicament, Australian Foreign Minister Alexander
Downer was due in Jakarta on Sunday, with diplomats monitoring any potential threat for
Australians in Indonesia in the wake of its economic crisis.

``Certainly on the streets ( in Indonesia ) there is tension and there is an expectation that as the
economic situation gets worse that problem may be exacerbated,'' Foreign Affairs and Trade
department spokeswoman Sally Mansfield told Reuters.

Jakarta and other parts of mainly Moslem Indonesia have been relatively calm.

Apart from food looting in East Java and panic buying in the capital over rising prices, there have
been few unusual incidents or a reported rise in attacks on foreigners.


jin.....small heart....

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:36
EB (President's Rally(US)......right BobM...) ID#22956:
I just like to shake the tree....and watch coconuts fall on my foot......OUCH!! Didn't the '93 gold Bull start because of the US presidency I think I read that on Vronsky's page about the four major gold bottoms....is this not true. I will do some research.....any help

Ted....you have the under, I have the over....let us meet in the middle and swill RUM like their is no more booze on this earth......yuk, yuk. And pass the peace pipe...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.... ( puff ) , ( puff ) ........mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmgood.

go gold...

away...to find help....this ( ugh ) boot is lodged deep in my throat

Éßootedup

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:33
HighRise (http://www.the-privateer.com/gold6.html ) ID#401460:
Removed space after dash, that Kitco wants to put in for some reason.

Good Read,
HighRise

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:32
SDRer__A (JTF--The Banks...The Diversion...The ‘Hidden’ Battle) ID#280245:
Gold Price Decline Due to More than Central Bank Sales
Polyconomics, Inc. - July 9, 1997.

The price of gold... may reflect some digestion of the news from Australia. For the most part, though, it reflects an equilibrium of today’s supply and demand for dollar liquidity ... Like a train with an engine at each end pulling in different directions, gold will then settle at the price where monetary deflation is pulling back with the same force as fiscal stimulation is pulling forward.

There is ( IMHO ) a liquidity crisis of unspeakable dimensions. It is impossible to delineate the parameters because of derivatives. Read this excerpt from the Peregrine Saga and accept that ALL global banks have a bit of this action...

From an INTERNAL MEMO to Peregrine Staff ( before it all fell apart )

We have already isolated all currency and interest rate risks
and have taken market risk positions that reflect the
emerging new order in Asia. The next step will be to exploit these views into workable transactions that we can distribute.

We have prepared for Indonesian rupiah devaluation, we have prepared for Malaysian ringgit devaluation, we have even taken steps to position
ourselves in case of Hong Kong dollar devaluation.

Read the news story. You can readily see the overwhelming need for a ‘diversion’.
http://www.scmp.com/news/template/templates.idc?artid= 19980124012145008& top= biz& template= Default.htx& maxfieldsize= 3600

Take care. PS- - Believe I know who bought Australia's gold!
Doing my DD now. BBL

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:31
Ted (To be perfectly candid.......................I'm presently sittin infront of the fire with Willy--) ID#364147:
DRINKIN RUM...and groovin ta old- timers musac ( the BOSS ) ....bbl...am off to do somethin ( ? ) ..- - - - - Will try + have the gold charts ( up- to- date- - within an hour...eh ) + plus my latest commentary on the international gold 'scene'...ready to post ( yes,right here! ) within hours!!...when I return....from the 'other side'.....eh....go team gold!
Later dudes....and dudettes...gotta go + slap Willy around...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:30
MoReGoLd (@USA) ID#348286:
tolerant#1: Don't forget that the US still has their 260 million ounces and as far as we know they have not sold a single gram.
The US CB could be increasing their Gold at these cheap levels, but as
we all know the political will is not there.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:30
HighRise (JTF) ID#401460:
JTF:

You ask the other night my thoughts on the US$. Well, we were right, the markets did return to more traditional relationships just a few hours later. Bond rates UP, US$ DOWN, and a $9 rise in Gold.

Here is a site Steve - Perth posted, and some quotes from it, that is supportive of our conversation.

“The global paper currency system is very young. It depends for its continued functioning on the belief that the debt upon which it is based will, someday, be repaid. The one thing, above all others, that could shake that faith, and therefore the foundations of the modern financial system itself, is a rise ( especially a sharp rise ) in the U.S. Dollar price of Gold.”

“On Friday, Jan. 23, the long bond yield soared almost 13 basis points to end up
at 5.971% . Of all the big moves taking place on investment markets of all descriptions, this move is the most important one of all.”

“An increase in the yields on these long- term bonds, especially if it occurs at the same time as the exchange rate of the U.S. Dollar is falling against its Japanese and continental European counterparts, is potentially catastrophic. It indicates that a risk premium is being slowly built into the compensation demanded for holders of these bonds. This premium partially reflects a concern that the exchange value of the Dollar may fall, with a consequent fall in the value of interest payments on the bond.”

and BART read this,

“Given the horrendous state of finances in Asia at present, and the inevitability that Asia's
troubles are going to adversely effect the internal economy of every nation in the world, a
falling Dollar and rising long- bond yields could not have come at a worse time. The situation has, of course, been further exacerbated by the present chaos inside the U.S. Administration itself. “

I guess JAIL BAIT GATE is relevant.

“The whole of Asia now knows only too well the advisability of being out of debt and holding Gold as insurance in the face of a financial meltdown. If you, wherever you are, have accomplished those two things alone, you are already way ahead of the game. Capital preservation comes first - always.”
http://www.the- privateer.com/gold6.html

HighRise

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:29
STUDIO.R (@Bob M.......your 12:14....) ID#93232:
Geeeze, my man.....RIGHT ON! Damn good points!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:28
6pak (Mozel @ Sat Jan 24 00:13 - (Adding my re-action to your comments, as a supporter (re:worker/citizen)) ID#335190:
Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:13
mozel ( lawful money ) ID#153102:

We are dumbed down..... So that finally, to the man untrained in the deceptions of legal word art, the very statutes and court decisions are disinformation. Eventually, even the lawyers don't know just law from legality and you can tell the young the Constitution has passed away.

A Columbia University law professor is doing this in print even now. Dishonest money drives honest money and honest men out of the marketplace and out of the professions.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Mozel, your words are well spoken. Truth, and Justice, exists only for the honest man. Such short comings, of the honest man, provides an outstanding opportunity for those citizen's, that exist, to exploit and benefit, from the honest mans short comings. Opportunists, justify their desperate need to exercise their dishonest rights, by accessing a standard that suggests, an honest man is a loser. [ good guy's finish last ]

Yes, we all are mushrooms, and yes, we accept this fact. To fight/protest against the interests of the opportunists, will only subject a honest citizen to the full might and support of the Corporate control agencies. [ie: respective governments, and their respective government agencies]
Yes, to be so stupid, and idiotic, would only bring forth the ridicule of the vast majority, of your fellow citizen's. Such accusations will include a reference to being a communist, socialist, comrade, anti- government, anarchist, terrorist, etc. etc.

Such comes to mind, Ruby Ridge - Waco - and the workers that were hanged, because they wanted to work an eight hour day, and wanted to be represented, by an elected workers organization.

Parson's, Spies, Fischer, and Engel, hanged by big monopolists policy, on November 11 1887. Their crime, leaders of a USofA Trade Union. Implicated as bombers, in the Haymarket affair in Chicago. Accused of being Anarchists. Convicted, because they attended the Haymarket affair.[ May 04, 1886 ]

Trial started June 21 1886 before Judge Joseph E. Gary - Judgement was on October 09 1886. Hanged November 11, 1887. United States Supreme Court refused to examine the case. Governor Oglesby, the day before execution, commuted the death sentences of Fielden and Schwab to life. On the same day Lingg only 22, unable to speak English ( German ) committed suicide or was murdered in his cell.

Parson's: ** Your Honor, we are the victims of the foulest and blackest conspiracy that ever disgraced the annals of time.**

President Grover Cleveland, Annual Message to Congress, 1888:
As we view the achievements of aggregated capital, we discover the existence of trusts, combinations and monopolies, while the citizen is struggling far in the rear or is trampled to death beneath an iron heel. Corporations, which should be the carefully restrained creature of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters...

Take Care.



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:24
Avalon (Washington will be a real interesting place next week; Sorry EB, I disagree, ) ID#254269:

I don't think this Monicagate deal is a dead horse yet and I agree it would be a mistake to underestimate Clinton. But there are just too many of these charges flying around . One of the problems is that , regardless of the merits of any of the charges, Clinton is just too weakened right now and some unexpected event ( Mid- east ? Asia ? ) could cause some really big problems. It ain't over yet.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:23
MoReGoLd (@History) ID#348286:
Bob M: Kenneth Starr has been trying to nail Clitton for 5 years and insiders say he wants him bad. Now Starr is in the drivers seat and by all accounts, he has the goods to nail Clitton.
The only possibility I see is if there is a secret agenda, and Starr will fail to
perform his job properly as prosecutor.
The case is so public now that it would be almost impossible for Starr to pull that off even if he wanted to.

GO TEAM GOLD.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:23
Ted (Ted-Bits) ID#364147:
Too bad the pope has a bubble on his car....ummmmmmmmm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:19
Ted (EB.......................and YEAH......I was talkin about impeachin ----------) ID#364147:
jack kennedy.......................go gold...and Broncos ( 23- 20 victors ) says my 'magic eight' ball...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:19
Bob M (EB) ID#26059:
What do you mean dead horse, the rally yesterday should be called the Clinton Rally as that was by far the major reason gold was up

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:18
EB (DUH....................er..........uh..................DOH!!!) ID#22956:
Sorry.....

I am pulling my 'ugh' boot out of my mouth......whoops...

Now......RJ AND HEP are bullish on gold. Well....hmmmmmm. I'll still sell this rally and go long the same time...perhaps.

away...to knock some sense into my pee- brain

Éß

thanks ted...ya ole northerner

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:18
tolerant1 (Hmmmmm) ID#31868:
Why would the US let the new Europe plan for a gold backed currency unseat the power they now yield? Why not back the dollar with gold and crush any competition before it is birthed?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:16
Ted (Tolerant1.........................why thank you --------------------) ID#364147:
Sir............Studio.R: yeah it's 'rut- gut' stuff ain't it ( but it still 'works'...eh..?...Am startin ta wax- nostalgic about this property ( um...NO correlation ta drinkin...eh... ) and will miss Scaterie Island and the ocean around it the most!!!...Has been a great 'nature experience' for five years!!...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:14
Bob M (Clinton) ID#26059:
The really scary part about the Clinton agenda over the last several years is the implications to a future president. He has made such low standards of behavior so acceptable, and his legalistic play on words has become the norm, selling out the country to possible enemies, lying under oath, adultery on a repeated basis and the Lord knows what else we dont..that someday, a really evil man could gravitate to power in this country, and use Clintons deeds as justification to perpertate his own agenda on the unknowing and uncaring American people...could be very tragic to our long term prosperity. His deeds and acts today, will be tommorrows precedents.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:14
EB (And this is the ONLY time I will address this Dead Horsey.....) ID#22956:
What do:

Thomas Jefferson, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Lyndon Johnson, Grover Cleveland, Warren G. Harding, John F. Kennedy, Bill Clinton.......and I am sure countless others...

have in common?

well...they ALL had Zipper problems.......ALL OF THEM.

This infidelity thing, while I do not condone it, is something that has gone on for.......well, for EVER. It certainly is not right but it is NOT an Impeachable offense. Was there EVER any talk of Impeaching ole 'Jack' Kennedy!? Heaven Forbid....... now, let us focus on GOLD and lovely Platinum and Silver, etc...EH? Right Barty- Boy

Away

Éß

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:13
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R) ID#31868:
Lame it was not, we are all sci- ant- tists in the great scheme of things.

I could not make rum impure to get Camdesuss and his pimp Fazio.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:10
Ted (EB..............snap out of it!!) ID#364147:
Date: Fri Jan 23 1998 15:53
RJ ( ..... Go Gold ..... ) ID#411259:

The world is a funny place. You wake up one morning and everything has changed. As one
of the most vehement gold bears on this forum, I have had plenty of harsh words for gold.

No more.

I like it. I think the downside is just a retest of the lows around $280. I think it is much more
likely that gold will rally. I'm not calling for an explosion, but I would like to add my voice to
those that say the bottom is in.

heEBee jeEBee boy….. Careful with those shorts. Today was short covering but I think new
buying is going to enter the market. I would not get in front of this train, the risk/reward is all
outta' whack. Lower your skirt.

LGB @ Yassirs Goat -

See my Jan 22 @ 21:49. Heard the goat thing on the radio.

Away……………..Go Gold!!!


Return to Kitco Homepage


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:08
STUDIO.R (@T#1...) ID#93232:
Poison Rum for Camdessus! Bad Bacardi Buries Bad- Boy Camdessus.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:07
tolerant1 (TED) ID#31868:
As legitimate a reason as any I have read at Kitco on any subject.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:07
MoReGoLd (@Hmmmmm, they just keep a cummin) ID#348286:
More Details Surface in Clinton Sex Scandal

WASHINGTON ( AllPolitics, Jan. 24 ) - - President Bill Clinton was facing heightened scrutiny today as new allegations unfolded in the widening Monica Lewinsky controversy, including a report that he and the former intern engaged in oral sex in the White House.

Talks were to continue today among Whitewater prosecutors and Lewinsky's lawyers about a possible grant of immunity for her. CNN has confirmed that federal investigators made such an offer, apparently last week, but the talks collapsed over the specifics.

Lewinsky reportedly was willing to testify that she had had a sexual relationship with the president, but, according to sources familiar with her strategy, was unwilling to testify that Clinton and his close friend Vernon Jordan told her or asked her to lie to Paula Jones' lawyers about the relationship, the key accusation leveled at the present.

Such testimony would damage any case against the president concerning obstruction of justice, but would leave open the question of whether he perjured himself in a deposition in the Jones sexual harassment case. Clinton reportedly claimed in a sworn deposition last week that he never had an affair with Lewinsky.

Among Saturday's headlines:

• TIME magazine reports that Lewinsky and Clinton engaged in frequent phone sex, with Clinton often calling at night from the White House. A source told the magazine that Lewinsky brought phone messages from the president left on her home answering machine to her job at the Pentagon, where she played them for co- worker Linda Tripp.

TIME also reports that Clinton and Lewinsky engaged in oral sex about 12 to 20 times in a study off the Oval Office.

• The Los Angeles Times, quoting an unidentified source who claims to have listened to about 10 percent of the 20 hours of tape- recorded conversations handed over to the independent counsel's office, said Lewinsky can be heard on the tapes saying she only participated in oral sex with the president, and that Clinton told her he did not consider such an act to be a sexual affair. Two Arkansas state troopers told the Times in 1993 that Clinton had said biblical scriptures held that oral sex with a woman other than your wife is not adultery.

Monica said they had phone sex. That there was a lot of phone sex, the source also told the Times.

• Lucianne Goldberg, a literary agent known to have a severe dislike of the president, encouraged Tripp to record her conversations with Lewinsky and then brought the story to the attention of Newsweek magazine, The Washington Post reported Saturday. What I'm glad about is he's getting caught at something. If it took this to get him, fine, the Post quotes Goldberg as saying.

She added: I'm a hero if this thing comes out the way my, quote, agenda would like to see it come out. She told the Post she has been furious over coverage of Clinton for the last five years because she believes journalists did not do enough about Whitewater and other allegations of corruption.

Clinton has repeatedly denied he had a sexual relationship with Lewinsky or encouraged her to lie about it. On Friday, he met with his Cabinet and maintained the allegations were false. Afterward, his appointees voiced their support.

I believe the allegations are completely untrue, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:06
Bob M (Clinton) ID#26059:
Do not underestimate this man...he will probably call a press conference, admit to lying to the American people, with tears in his eyes and ask for there forgiveness...knowing the gullibility of the American people ( especially the women who have always been his solid base of support ) will embrace him with open arms and forgive him. His ratings will once again skyrocket, and all will be well. Clinton has been able to get away with all this for years because of one reason and one reason only..the economy has been better then it has ever been for the working class people and the raging stock market has been the icing on the cake..

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:05
tolerant1 (MoReGold) ID#31868:
This is better for what you seek, I think;

www.ecu- activities.be

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:04
STUDIO.R (@Mike Sheller....) ID#93232:
I guess the point I lamely presented is....how would I know?...what to believe and what to dismiss? The planets may be within the cell with us....neighboring matter...and gold pieces of our Sun's shining matter...banged to us to hold for future nourishment.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:04
Avalon (Carl; thanks for your 11.41.) ID#254269:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:03
Ted (HI Tolerant1.........................from the great North Atlantic ocean) ID#364147:
Actually just ( 'to set the record straight' ) just mixed my FIRST...and will dedicate it to YOU,my Huntington friend....just drank my first...ahhhhhhh....Nothin fancy ( Bacardi ) ...am salivating @ the price of RUM in MAINE ( 1.75 litres here in Cape Breton is approx 45 Canadian$ ( and gettin cheaper by the day for you yanks! ) ...but still EXPENSIVE....To be candid ( ? ) THIS is my only reason for leaving CB~~~~~~~

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 12:02
tolerant1 (MoReGold) ID#31868:
Try this, you may find links somewhere here;

www.mooyaart.com

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:55
EB (I have been searching......to no avail...) ID#22956:
Where does RJ say that the gold bull has 'started'? I have searched and searched. I have NOT found it. Can someone point it out to me!?

Please refrain from putting words into peoples mouths...

Mr Irvine- Boy..... would you care to comment regarding the trading at your office yesterday ( Friday ) !? Some here are getting a little.....how do you say it........out- o- control.

I must admit that this was a good move and there is a chance for the 'bottom' to be in. Who knows, I will use options to sell AND buy this market........uh huh. Can the bulls sustain the attacks that will surely come next week!? Can the bears stop the bleeding from the latest bull 'goring'!? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....Tick- Tock, Tick- Tock... the Gold- Bull ran up the clock...

away...to poorboys house for a lesson in AWAYness

Éßputtinonshadescauseitsgettinbright...ohmy

hey Ted- baby....lovin the Code+Rum

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:54
MoReGoLd (@EMU GOLD RESERVES) ID#348286:
Analysts are publicly forcasting between 10% and 20% of European CB
reserves will be held in Gold. This is very bullish for Gold and the Euro.

Can anyone attach actual quantities to these percentages, i.e. what dollar value foreign reserves will the CB hold?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:54
Ted (ummmmmmmmmmmm....Bart) ID#364147:
Guess this Clinton ( strayin- dick thing ) does have some relevance to the U.S.$ - GOLD.....eh......how long has it been since gold had this big- A one day move

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:54
tolerant1 (TED) ID#31868:
Blame, blame, a tisket, a tasket, a shot of tequila to ya, from the monkee under the Cuervo Gold basket. Peace.

Get Camdesuss and Fazio!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:53
Mike Sheller (Mammoth Thoughts for a Sat Morn) ID#347447:
STUDIO R: You are not far from wrong, but I wouldn't have conceived it as a mammoth. And its far less haphazard than that. But what does that have to do with astrology? Or gold? ( ;- )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:53
Delphi (Kitco) ID#258129:
On way to post a chart - ftp server is not responding....

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:50
Mike Sheller (STUDI.R, JOHN DISNEY) ID#347447:
STUDIO.R: Just want to add that I am certainly not ruling out a crude oil rally from these current lows. Probably in a few weeks. But if so, I might see it as something to short as May approaches. There may be about 9 months of bottom patterning, or sideways dullness for oil ahead after that.

JOHN DISNEY: For no good reason? Hey, the planets are GOOD. Just gotta know how to read 'em. Bettern' my beans. Thanks for the backup.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:48
MoReGoLd (@ASIA) ID#348286:
Crisis is not over unfortunately. Rupiah has plunged 80% and there is big civil unrest brewing in many countries, especially Indonesia.
Ordinary people who make up 98% of the population have little to lose when they are broke and unemployed.
They must free themselves from the corrupt military administrations and the IMF/BIS, before any sustainable recovery can succeed.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:48
Ted (HI,my name is wasTED------------------------------) ID#364147:
What's your name?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:47
Ted (Tolerant1(9:35)....................+ Studio.R(10:17)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ID#364147:
NO!............blame me...eh...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:47
STUDIO.R (@Mike Sheller....) ID#93232:
Thank you very much for your forecast. I think I'll just plan on laying low for another year....keep the reserves in the ground. By the way, and now I'm being serious ( rare ) ....I do believe in astrology. What's to say the earth is not part of an atom in a molecule of a compound that is contained within a cell of a fiber of a muscle that is part of a leg of a mammoth that wanders the plains of different planet within a much larger universe....and we only lived a nanosecond in the longer realm of time.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:43
Steve - Perth (The things you read on the Net!) ID#284177:
How Reflation Will Blow Out the Financial System -
WITH LYNDON LAROUCHE

EIR: Lyn, Jeffrey Sachs, the Harvard economist, is calling on
Japan to do even more to print money and flood Asia with cheap
loans and yen liquidity.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: If you look at a recent issue of the
Neue Zuericher Zeitung, the NZZ, which is the leading
Zurich- based financial paper in Switzerland, daily, you see the
same thing was reported there. What has happened is a great
number, or an overwhelming majority of the European and the
U.S. financier circles are committed to what in fact is a
hyperinflation, a global hyperinflation, which, in a matter of some
weeks, if continued, will do to the world, including the United
States, what the Weimar hyperinflation did to Germany over the
period 1921- 23. Only this time, it won't take a couple of years to
do it. This will happen within weeks, or, at most, months.

They call it reflation. They say - - NZZ, for example, and other
voices, which NZZ accurately reflects - - they say there's a
danger that if we don't do this, the Asian economies will go to
exchange controls. So, what's wrong with exchange controls?
We did that before. That's how we got out of the World War II
effects. During the 1950s, there were exchange controls, limited
convertibility, capital controls. These were the methods; and
pegged currencies. Anybody who tried to do what George
Soros, we'd bankrupt him then. You want to go out and gamble,
and say a currency's got the wrong price? We say, Buddy, we
determine the price of the currencies, not you and your crazy
casino- type financial speculators' markets. We'd bankrupt these
guys. We did it many times, and they learned to behave
themselves.

Now, they're turned loose. These rats, like Soros, are turned
loose, destroying entire economies. You mean to say that Korea
can't produce the same value in industrial product for a unit of
won today, that it produced at the beginning of the year? Of
course it can. Did the won collapse in value? No: it was artificially
collapsed in value, by perception of a bunch of gangsters holding
the gun of the International Monetary Fund, and so forth, to the
heads of the Korean economy.

So, Sachs now, true to colors, comes out and joins the pack, in
demanding what's called reflation, to avoid the possibility that
nations will go back to the old Bretton Woods type of
agreements.

[commercial break]

EIR: Lyn, you were discussing the call by Harvard economist
Jeffrey Sachs and European financiers for faster reflation, printing
of money.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: In this condition, the President does
not support, or has given no indication that he supports inflation,
or hyperinflation. And everything I see, indicates that he's
opposed to it. But the President has to think of himself as like the
policeman on a street where a burglary's in progress. The burglar,
in this case, is the policies of the IMF, the policies of, in this case,
Jeffrey Sachs, for example. The President as the policeman is
standing there, watching people launch a global hyperinflation.
And, he's doing nothing to interfere with that. Instead, he's
spending three days at Camp David, according to the
announcement, with his deadliest enemy, the British monarchy, as
represented by their current chief thug, Tony Blair. And this is
what the danger is.

At present, you would say the policeman is supporting by
condoning a burglary in process. In the same sense, the President
of the United States is currently supporting global hyperinflation
of the type that, in short order, will blow up the planet. And, in
the coming weeks, we're going to see the White House and
everybody else shaking, because the effects of what they're
doing, is going to cause a disaster beyond anything that they've
experienced, or even imagined so far.

- France: Bankrupt Credit Lyonnais, Not the French
People -

EIR: Lyn, amidst spreading demonstrations of unemployed in
France, France's prime minister is going to address the nation
tonight on the problem. What's behind this?

LYNDON LAROUCHE: The problem in France is signalled by
the fact that in France, the unemployed are demanding a
continuation of unemployment benefits. You had the young
unemployed, who have been rioting or otherwise demonstrating
in France, with great sympathy from leading trade unions, outside
the Socialist Party leadership itself, which of course is the
continuation of the Francois Mitterrand gangster apparatus,
which is running the government of France today, behind Jospin.

The interesting thing is this: The French government, at the same
time it says it has no money for unemployment benefits, is doing a
monstrous bailout, once more, of Credit Lyonnais. Now, Credit
Lyonnais, truth be known, was bankrupted because of things that
were done by and under the administration of President, former
President Francois Mitterrand, the head of the gangster
organization which runs the Socialist Party government of France
today.

So once again, again and again, the French government goes
back to bail out Francois Mitterrand's creation, the bottomless pit
called Credit Lyonnais. They should bankrupt the thing: it's
bankrupt, let it go. But, of course, that would cause a lot of
embarrassment, because somebody might look at the paper
which hasn't been burned up yet, to see who was exactly
responsible for looting Credit Lyonnais, to cause this perpetual
bankruptcy.

In the meantime, others in Europe are saying, This is not
allowable, because this itself will break the so- called Maastricht
agreements. In any case, what you see, is that Jospin is going to
go public tonight, and he's going to try to cover his butt, including,
the question will be asked: What role possibly did Jospin, and
possibly his minister, Chevenement, have, in connection with
Mitterrand, the Mitterrand administration's relationship to Credit
Lyonnais? And what might lie behind the so- called suicides of
Beregovoy and other officials of the Mitterrand government or
the Mitterrand state, shortly before Mitterrand left the
government? What was covered up by those things? Those
questions are going to be asked.

But, in the meantime, you find a situation in which human folly,
and conniving, comes to a reckoning. It's a time in which the
Nemesis, the Greek Erinyes are swarming down on the French
government, and saying, wait a minute, buddy, we've come to
collect you. We'll see what happens after the speech tonight.

- Why Tony Blair Is a Fascist -

EIR: Lyn, earlier, you mentioned Clinton's forthcoming meeting
with British Prime Minister Blair. Tony Wedgwood Benn, a leftist
politician in Britain, just compared Prime Minister Blair to the
prewar British Prime Minister Ramsay Macdonald. You had
made the same comparison earlier.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: Tony Wedgwood Benn is one of the
interesting figures in an otherwise dull- as- dishwater British
personality landscape these days. And, of course, he's made the
correct observation. Everybody knows it; that Tony Blair is a
fascist, pure and simple. I don't know why anybody around
Washington likes him, unless they do have some fascist
tendencies, or proclivities. But, what he's doing, is exactly that.
He is doing what his predecessor, Ramsay Macdonald, did in
1931, what was done at the same time in Germany, under
Chancellor Bruning, the terrible austerity measures, which paved
the way for Hitler's coming to power in Germany.

And we're having the same thing now: If these policies continue,
you're going to have social explosion, you're going to have chaos
in Britain, in Europe, in the United States. It's coming fast.
Anyone who supports this kind of thing, is lunatic, at best. And
Wedgwood Benn, one of the interesting figures still on the British
landscape, has spoken the truth, a rare thing for British politicians
these days.

- Iran: Fight Over Policy Between Mullahs and Khatami -

EIR: Lyn, we've discussed previously on this show that Iranian
President Khatami went on American television with an offer for
dialogue with the American people. Now, the daily press is
creating the impression that this offer has been withdrawn.
They're quoting apparently anti- American statements of Khatami.
Is that true?

LYNDON LAROUCHE: No, that's not true. What's happened
is, it's in trouble. The mullahs, a very political group in the mullahs
- - it's a complication, a long story involving the nature of the
ayatollah system within the Iranian version of Islam. But a political
group, headed by Khamenei, has launched an anti- American
explosion, in response to President Khatami's address on the
U.S. media. This has put the discussion into jeopardy. Now, the
anti- American posturing in the Islamic world - - and I know it
very well - - the virulently anti- American, as, you know, the
United States is the number one evil in the world; if they want to
say George Bush is one of the number one evils in the world, they
can go ahead and say that. I'll support them on that. But the
United States is not the number one evil in the world: it's the
British.

Look at the other side of this: look at international terrorism.
Who runs international terrorism? Well, the majority of the
harboring and direction of international terrorism is run from
London. This is not an allegation made simply by me or by
President Mubarak of Egypt, or so forth, this is a fact. This is
something admitted, in open proceedings in parliament and
elsewhere, by the British Crown. They went to parliament to
defend their policy, not only acknowledging the fact that they
have been, with MI6 and MI5 and the British Foreign Office,
have been harboring and actually deploying international
terrorism, but they defended the practice, and said they intended
to continue it.

On the other side, one of the things that was said by the British
Crown in this connection, was that this is the way we deal with
the angry Islamic groups, for example. And thus, we harbor their
political activists, and allow them to commit acts of terror, as long
as their terrorist acts don't attack anything which we consider to
be a target of British interests.

So, what happens, is you get some dumb Arabs, some dumb
Islamic people, who believe that the British are the lesser evil,
that the British are the friend of the Arabs, or the Islamic
population against the United States. There are a lot of idiots,
wishful idiots in the Third World, among the Islamic and other
populations, who believe that nonsense, who are totally
brainwashed and manipulated by British Intelligence. As a matter
of fact, go back and read a book. Read Burton's unexpurgated
version of the Arabian Nights. Don't read the book so much - -
read the footnotes. And Burton tells you that this book is a
manual on how to manipulate the Arab mind. And that's what the
British do. And the same thing applies to the Iranians.

So you have a faction in Iran, which, from the earlier period, the
period of the crisis with Carter, that in that period, the British
were manipulating the whole thing. And some of the mullahs were
also targets and subjects of that manipulation. And that lingers to
this day. Because of the conflict which developed between Iran
and the United States, you have an embittered mass base of
support for what began simply as the British- inspired targetting of
the United States within Iran.

- Danger of a New Middle East War Is Growing -

EIR: Lyn, we have about a minute remaining. Could you address
the Middle East peace talks going on in Washington? You know
that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu met twice with Clinton
yesterday, and Yasser Arafat of the PLO will meet with the
President tomorrow.

LYNDON LAROUCHE: Well, I would say, first of all, that the
President is very well- meaning in this thing. But the President is
very much afraid of the so- called Zionist Lobby in the United
States. The Zionist Lobby in the United States is not primarily of
Jewish extraction. It is primarily of evangelicals, who belong to
the so- called British Israelite persuasion. The evangelicals were
totally controlled by the British Privy Council, which is a good
name for it.

Therefore, the President is politically afraid of taking on
Netanyahu. Netanyahu, or the Israeli crazies, who are run from
London, although many of the lunatics are based in Brooklyn; but
these lunatics, who are part of the so- called Temple Mount
operation, they plan to blow up the Temple Mount, to bring the
New Temple of Solomon, to cause the Battle of Armageddon.
And all these evangelicals, U.S. evangelicals believed they
wouldn't have to pay the rent any more, because they would get
raptured, or wouldn't have to pay their bills. So, that was the
basis for it.

So the President is unwilling to take on Netanyahu, and that
Israeli crowd the way he should. He probably is very angry at
Netanyahu, he's probably very angry at these people. He
probably wants to do the right thing. I mean, our President,
Clinton, is essentially a good guy, I mean, a nice neighbor to
have. But, when it comes to command in warfare against
enemies, he always tends to compromise and equivocate, and
that's what he's doing in this case. Even though he's trying to do
the right thing, the element of equivocation in his attitude, his
cultural tendency toward equivocation, is deadly. And they'll
probably get by with it; we probably will have a Middle East
war, as a result of the President's equivocation.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:42
tolerant1 (Hmmmmm) ID#31868:
Add Camdesuss's pimp Fazio to my list.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:41
Carl (Avalon, see expanation of McClellan oscillator below) ID#333131:
http://invest- faq.com/articles/tech- an- mcclellan.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:38
MoReGoLd (@Clinton has left his mark (stains) on the Whitehouse.) ID#348286:
BILLD: As I mentioned when the story broke early this week, Clitton is finished. He will be either gone or on the way out within 2 weeks.
The questions are:
- How gracefully will he leave - I can't see how he can avoid federal criminal prosecution - he will be proven a fellon.
- Will he be serving time - probably yes.
- How much of his cabinet will survive - Madelene Albright turns out to be not so bright in declaring Clitton inocent so early.
- Will Jordan be nailed - prosecutor Starr is very desperate to get him also
- What type of policies will Gore persue and what impact will this have on the various markets - I would imagine he wants to keep the stock
markets stable and avoid panick.

REMEMBER that Susan McDougal is and has been in jail for years now for refusing to testify and implicate Clitton. What a stupid and senceless
reason to continue to serve HARD TIME.......

GO TEAM GOLD......

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:37
John Disney__A (And its ALL TRUE) ID#24135:
It is TRUE - Mike sheller called the DD move. And for no

good reason . Yes the golds were all up but 30% in ONE day

for one stock was out of line.

Im a believer - tell me all about it LGB you unbelieving

peasant _ did your buddy great economist ( my you know what )

Karlita call it or call ANTHING - he/she/it is gone like

the morning dew in the full sun and heat of GOLD. Gold the quarry

of men like Cortez, Pisarro, the Buccaneers. Can you see K in

that company - he'd be lunch - right Oris.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:33
Mike Sheller (POO POO On OIL) ID#347447:
STUDIO.R: Happy to be mentioned along with the Godfather of Soul, but I don't think I'd like to share a cell with him. Your question on the price of oil ( POO ) is a good one. You may not want to hear this though. I took a look at my 2 key oil horoscopes, the NYSE and OPEC ( I'm a very simple minded astrologer ) . I use NYSE Neptune as my oil significator, and that is at 27 degrees Libra. Saturn in Aries opposes this degree off and on from May '98 to Early February '99. Saturn can be a real limitation - a drag! Some potential stress points during this general time period ( in effect, most of '98 ) are Mid May '98, Late November/Early December '98, and finally Jan/Feb '99. Perhaps November '98 - February '99 will mark a major bottoming area. Jupiter in Pisces plays havoc with a number of individual oil corporate 'scopes as well in '98 - too many to be a coincidence. Jupiter also squares itself in OPEC's chart, while opposing OPEC Mercury and squaring OPEC Mars. This is a significant cross or T- Square, plus Opposition, and will mature around Jan/Feb of '99. After that time window, the astrological pressure appears to lift, technically speaking. So the bear is here, still, for oil, it seems, with early '99 being the end of it. But that Nov '98 - Feb '99 area, if it is indeed the last of the weakness, may turn out to be a great buying opportunity for deferred crude, shares, and producing properties.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:33
Avalon (Technical question for one of the technical guys; What is the McClellan ) ID#254269:

Oscillator Index ? I would like a really simple answer if possible. TIA

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:30
Avalon (Good morning all; Italian input on Asia,) ID#254269:

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980124/italy_asia_2.html

p.s. Happy Australia Day to all posters there.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:22
Carl (JTF, Old Gold) ID#333131:
I think you're right to keep focusing on deeper events than what happens on the front pages. This is the time period when the EU CB's have finished positioning for the Euro. Given the bounce in gold without any of the present headlines, people would be reading the bounce up in gold as due to a change in CB's gold behavior. When markets change directions, it's not unusual to misread what's happening. Of all indicators, the one with the most solid historical scope and feel to it is Donald's Dow/Gold ratio IMHO.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:17
APH (Repost -slight change) ID#25588:
A post I made in Dec. with a change. The high is now no greater then the 315- 320 before a correction.

Date: Fri Dec 26 1997 18:33
APH ( Feb. Gold ) ID#25588:
A possible path for the Feb Gold contract over the next several weeks is beginning to
reveal itself. Gold should trade into the 305 - 306 area, this would be a wave 3 high
followed by a correction of
approximately $10. After that a wave 5 advance into the low 320's will end this leg up
no later than early Feb.. Sell
your position anytime the GCG8 is above 320. There is resistance on the daily, weekly
and monthly charts in the 320
area. From this area a correction in the first quarter of 98 will occur that may retrace
this entire leg up. What 's
important here is how the XAU reacts during this correction. If it can hold up giving
back no more than 10% of it's
value while gold is testing it's lows we would be assured of a bottom. There will be a
correction and a test of the
lows in the 1st qt. 1998, how it unfolds in relation to the XAU is what I'll be looking
for.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:15
Steve - Perth (Scouring the net for you! Steve’s specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA) ID#284177:
Email Steve: steve@compsb.eepo.com.au

BREAKING STORIES:

Council on Foreign Relations & the NWO
http://www.parascope.com/mx/council1.htm

The corruption of the House of Saud
http://www.saudhouse.com/index.htm

Gold Above US$300 - Commentary
http://www.the- privateer.com/gold6.html

The Wrong Threat - Steve Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/98/0126/6102027a.htm

The IMF needs a bailout, & the deals to get it
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/05/b3563081.htm

The Asian bug starts to bite the US
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/05/b3563093.htm

Singapore property takes a hit
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/05/b3563163.htm

Going where the money is - Review
http://www.businessweek.com/1998/04/b3562033.htm

Another French Revolution in the making
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/04/b3562076.htm

Commodity prices are tanking
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/04/b3562042.htm

MAI - A conspiracy theory worth worrying about
http://www.brw.com.au/brw04.htm

Costly lure of Globalisation - Setting the Scene for a Yen bloc
http://www.brw.com.au/brw19.htm

Asian fallout smooths Euro money union
http://www.brw.com.au/brw12.htm

IN REVIEW:

Rupiah plummets again as confusion, fear stalk markets
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980124/pageone/pageone4.html

Australia on alert over Indonesia
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/news/news1.html

Rupiah slides 20pc as investors reject IMF- backed Budget
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/world/world3.html

Value and prospects translate to profit in Asia - The Maverick
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/market/markets2.html

Institutions tread softly on increasing Asian exposure
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/banking/banking2.html

What to do about Asia ( series of Articles )
http://www.businessweek.com/1998/04/b3562001.htm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:13
STUDIO.R (@Silverbaron...) ID#93232:
I can't seem to snag the url that you just posted.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:08
JTF (Oil stocks bottoming? Probably - but they would drop faster than gold stocks in a crash.) ID#189195:
SilverBaron, Studio R.: Given the slowly rising creshendoes in the Middle East - - both the Saddam and Netyanahu/Arafat standoff, with the Independence arriving soon - - it is amazing that oil even went down at all! A crisis in the Middle East would make oil stocks ( and gold stocks ) bulletproof.

I don't think BC is as unstable as Nixon was, so we don't have to worry about that red button - - but on the other hand I have never seen him helpless on the defensive before. He could very well pick a fight with Saddam to get the minds of the public off his problems.

Trouble ahead, I think.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 11:05
STUDIO.R (Soul Mystic James Brown foretold this crises....) ID#93232:
In his hit, SEX MACHINE, released in July 1970 which climbed the R& B charts to #2. James Brown, a man of great vision ( especially right before a performance ) , cannot be on Kitco today because he is unjustly detained in an insane asylum...I wonder what JB thinks of this mess? Perhaps he will room with Bill Clinton soon in the asylum when BC is treated for being a Sex Maniac. Now there's a new hit title! He's a Smooth Sex Maniac!....Ooooowwww!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:58
Silverbaron (STUDIO.R @ OIL) ID#288295:
Don't know about what the heavens forecast, but oil bottoming, looks like...

http://www.intersurf.com/~vor/crude.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:57
Dave in CO (Nixon reportedly had conversations with paintings of Founding Fathers) ID#215211:
Do you think this guy is talking to Marx, Mao, Lenin...?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:54
JTF (Must finish my moring work -- signing off!) ID#57232:
Mike Sheller: Thanks for your comments. Your psychological post about BC may be right on the money. Did you know that one of the articles I read in the morning paper said that he is in hiding and will not communicate with his aides because he is afraid that anything he says to them might get the wrong spin on it when it gets to the media? Even his lawyers seem to have little to say. Apparently only Hillary is on the offensive.

I don't wish this kind of crisis to occur in our country, but I do believe that the web of lies could not go on indefinitely. This unraveling of the web will be a strong bearish force on the markets, and a strong bullish force on gold.

I would not want to be a gold bear with a crisis in the White House. Apologises, Bart Kitner - - I'm really trying to focus on gold discussion only!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:46
STUDIO.R (@Mike Sheller...) ID#93232:
Kind sir, what do the heavens portend for the P.O.O. ( oil ) ? Wow, that acronym sucks! Don't tell me if it's bad....muchas gracias.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:44
Mike Sheller (I'm AFreud to say, but...) ID#347447:
Permit me a little further investigation of Chad Meek's call that the President would encounter some sort of debilitation bordering on mental illness. Now thru May, transiting Uranus ( no jokes, gang ) opposes Clinton's natal Marcury/Pluto conjunction. This touches upon the more esoteric PSYCHOLOGICAL ramifications of astrology. Think of it this way in astrological symbolic shorthand for civilians - Mercury is the intellect, or mind as we generally think we know it ( the chatter in our heads, etc ) and Pluto, among other things, being ruler of Scorpio, symbolizes Sex, and the regenerative, creative power behind that mysterious function. We are either REgenerating, or DEgenerating ( Sort of like we are either INflating, or DEflating ) . Perhaps, with this afflicted Mercury, so close to Pluto it cannot escape constant thoughts and urges concerning sex, the President does indeed have a deep- rooted psychological condition. As for seperating his public life ( as President of all the people ) from his private ( s ) , if a man cannot keep his vows of fidelity to his wife, how can he be expected to keep them to his country? I think we may have a deeper problem here than appears at first glance. My current feature at Gold Eagle notes unusual activity April/May. Could this be the crescendo of the scandal?

JTF: I'm not too good with eclipses - they are like black holes to me, but I will look into it ( the eclipse, not the black hole ) .

WHAT? RJ is BULLISH on GOLD?
The bottom is IN!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:42
JTF (Points well made!) ID#57232:
Old Gold: If you are right about SEAsia, and the crisis is about over, the first thing the SEAsians will buy with their cash after food and shelter will be gold.

Hope the gurus watching SEAsia are correct. What worries me is that there is no evidence that the G7 ( though the IMF ) have done anything constructive in SE Asia - so far - and they seem to have run out of cash. My personal impression is that there must be an Asian solution of some kind, not one engineered by the G7. Perhaps SDRer can shed some light on this.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:36
Rob (Glenn and RJ) ID#410114:
Old Gold



Your right. RJ's switch was sudden and I am VERY glad to have him on the bull side. I recall RJ's comment about when a bull move does start, there will be a vicious, vicious, vicious short covering rally.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:34
JTF (Astrology -- 20 year peak in tides end of Feb) ID#57232:
Mike Sheller: Enjoyed your Astrological comments and how they relate to the White House. Any comments about the total Solar Eclipse near the end of Feb, which turns out to be near a 20 year tidal maximum as well? From my very scanty knowledge of your mysterious field, eclipses can be significant as trigger points, as well as priming events for a later celestial event.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:33
STUDIO.R (The Death of an Oil Man......Mr. Studio.R) ID#93232:
Oklahoma Sweet posting this a.m. $13.50. For quotes 1 ( 800 ) SELL OIL. Say Good Night, Studio.R.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:32
oris (Sam and John Disney) ID#238422:
For DOUBLE agents

I will be using DOUBLE barrel

side- by- side 12 ga. coach gun...


Back to cleaning guns and reading

Sandvik... ops, ...I mean eating sandwich...



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:26
OLD GOLD (China) ID#238295:
JTF Some smart people are arguing that China has reached an ageement with the G7 not to devalue if the G7 moves soon to reflate Asian economies, currencies, and markets. If this is correct and China does not devalue as the G7 move to reflate, huge gains in gold stccks and Asian stocks are virtually assured this year.

BTW, consensus opinion will not turn bullish on gold until the yellow has moved considerably higher. It is always thus at key turning points.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:24
Mike Sheller (http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/astro121397.html) ID#347447:
ANATOMY OF AN ASTROLOGICAL CALL ( or is it ASTROLOGY OF AN ANATOMICAL CALL? )

Well, as far as the ol' Astrological Investor's observations for Jan 22/23 made on December 13th, it was a STRESS TEST alright! The whole American nation is traumatized and transfixed by one of the most unseemly scandals in modern media history. While yours truly was , of course, looking ahead for ways we could all make a buck from this powerful astrological transit, my corporate compatriot and fellow astrologer Chad C. Meek had his eye on the real focal point of this impending crisis from the start. Some excerpts from the original feature at Gold Eagle on December 13th:

Chad is telling us that the New Moon position for December 29, at 8 Capricorn, puts tangential pressure on a number of horoscope points related to the January 22nd aspect. These horoscope degrees, Chad points out, are especially notable in the charts of not only the NYSE, but the President and the nation as well. He sees astrological activity that may even be symbolic of illness or weakness for the Commander in Chief.

As Chad himself says, This upcoming aspect might even be associated with the President's mental health... Meek likens a strong public opinion about a President and a nation's rulers to faith in the government's money. Under such conditions, gold is ignored. When there is weak public opinion and little faith in government and its rulers, the king's scrip dwindles in favor. ( Gold did indeed pop nicely on the 23rd! )

Chad reminded us that Clinton's Sun is placed at 26 Leo ( August 19,1946 ) . The Mars/Jupiter conjunction at 27 Aquarius that will square NYSE Sun will at the same time OPPOSE the President's Sun from directly across the Zodiac! An opposition can be as stressful as a square. Just the sound of that word gets the message across. After Chad dragged Clinton into the picture, we went back to the President's chart and found some further cause for concern. With the transiting Uranus opposing Mr. Clinton's natal Mercury/Pluto conjunction in his 11th house ( now through May ) there may indeed be danger of shocking revelations and destabilizing secrets coming out. There may also be some form of opposition by business interests here. Society ( 11th house ) may even find itself shaken ( but at the very least stirred ) by events. Uranus afflicts the President from the 5th house, which may also symbolize troubles from speculation.

Folks are speculating about this one all right, but it ain't on the New York Stock Exchange. Our astrological turban is doffed to the insightful Mr. Meek once again for a remarkable example of intuitive astrological interpretation, pointing us in the right direction for the source of this firestorm. Any astronomer can confirm, scientifically, any planetary aspect that an astrologer may wish to anticipate. It is in the analysis of WHAT it could mean for WHO or WHAT, that the hard work, and talent, of astrology lies. ( For the entire text of the December 13th edition of The Astrological Investor, go to the URL in the subject section at the top of this post ) . PS - That Mars/Jupiter thing on the 22/23 was a no- brainer.

I think the REAL sleeper was my call out several weeks ago ( around Christmas ) to John Disney about Durban Deep ( DROOY ) getting hot around the 22nd as Mars/Jupiter conjuncted its natal Sun. CHECK OUT that price chart!!! That was where the money REALLY was for us, boys and girls. From my experience, it don't get much bettern' that with Jupiter!


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:22
Mike Sheller (John Disney) ID#347447:
John - You really don't need that packet. It's a commercial preparation for lazy Latin housewives. It really replicates the ingredients in the recipe, plus a good dose of MSG. Dont worry about it. Just watch that the beans don't get too thick while they're cooking. Also, see the end of my next post.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:17
Dave in CO (@BillD - I agree with you) ID#215211:
THIS ONE may be out but, because of the growing voting bloc of government leeches, there will be a bullpen of clones to replace him.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:17
STUDIO.R (@T#1....Studio.R the Relentless Rum Rogue!) ID#93232:
Speaking of my namesake...rum...Mi nombre es ron en ingles...My old pard in Caracas just sent his rummy buddy...here let me read it to you...Santa Teresa 1796...Ron Antiguo de Solera...a bottle of ancient rum...WoW! I will save it for you and Kitco buddies coming to OKC. Bet you a wink it's pretty damn good!

Just went downstairs to get a cup of java...Lini reads my post on younger wives...I now must publically rescind that postion...I should have known better...slap! OOOwwww! I'm SORRY! ( slap ) Ooohhh! You're hurting me.... ( slap ) ....It was Ted's Idea! ( kick ) Owhhhh!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:16
OLD GOLD (targets) ID#238295:
Bob: Sincerely hope my target is too conservative. But I do recall Glenn saying recently he did not expect $400 until 1999.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:15
JTF (Gold - buy the dips) ID#57232:
Old Gold - My sentiments exactly. That is what I am trying to do. The Barrons's article about gold just confirms my suspicions that the tug of war between the gold bulls and bears is not over.
I must admit I am amused - - the Barron's author apparently said nothing about what would happen if the gold producers went under. At nearly 3000 tonnes a year consumption according to F Veneroso, all that is needed for a gold rally is for the CB's to stop selling or stop increasing their gold loan positions. Anyone with any knowledge about the gold markets will see the glaring error in this article, and realize that if production drops, the subsequent gold rally will be even stronger when it finally lets loose!
Really wild times, aren't they! By the way, do you see a rally in SEAsia before the mainland Chinese devaluation? If we do have a rally now, it might be rather disappointing when the Chinese devalue. Do you have reason to believe the Chinese will not devalue - - is that the reason for your optimism?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:11
OLD GOLD (Wayne Angell) ID#238295:
Friday has got to have been a VERY BAD day for anti- gold fanatic Wayne ( Treasury bonds are bettee than gold ) Angell. HIS NIGHTMARE ARE JUST BEGINNING. This guy will probably die of apoplexy when the yellow breaches $400.

Fortunately, AG is too smart to have taken him seriously when he was a Fed governor.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:09
Rob (RJ and Glenn) ID#410114:
Old Gold, I suspect RJ and Glenn have higher price targets than you. It will be a great irony if the old bulls are tentative and bearish on the way up and the old bears are screaming bulls

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:07
John Disney__A (Cuba Y la noche) ID#24135:
for mike Sheller

Have you read the book I forgot the Authors name but its

very nice. In view your Latin connections Im sure you'd

like it.

Ill never be able to get that little extra package of

seasoning for the r& b. Can you give me an idea of the

spices that comprise it. RSA is long on Indian type

kitchen - curries and the indian style r& b

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:07
oris (It's interesting) ID#238422:
that in many other countries of the world
it is considered to be not politically
incorrect for the president to have a
little life of his own....

Just like in Russia - if big chief can not
drink a lot ( of vodka ) and stay put, he can
not be the chief...

Guess you learn as long as you live...

Philosophical thought on Saturday morning.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:07
vronsky (http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/butler011798.html) ID#426220:

THE END OF THE LINE... for the Silver Lease CON

Ted Butler is the world’s foremost expert in nuances, intricacies and ramifications of GOLD & SILVER LEASES. Many months ago he exposed the Central Banks’ ill use of Gold Leasing Operations. Now he shares his insightful observations regarding “the Silver Loan CON.”

“And don't be surprised with future tactics intended to derail
what promises to be a very long and sharp price UPWARD spiral for silver.”

“...there is no way that the vast bulk of silver loaned can ever be returned.”

“That was then, this is now - the silver lease CON is over! Here's
why:” the report may be read by copying & pasting the above URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or “Go To” ) , then hit ENTER.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:06
BillD (No Dave in Co ...He's OUT...) ID#261269:
BUT, I have guns, ammo, food and PM's ( just in case ) ,,,: )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:06
sig__A (Gearing?) ID#210253:
Speed:

I've often wondered the same thing. My guess is that it is a synonym for leverage. For example, small historically unprofitable junior producer begins to report positive earnings stream. The percentage of increase from negative earnings to positive earnings creates this leverage effect. Consequently, stock value to the upside is leveraged faster and higher than nonleveraged [consistantly profitable] major producers. This effect also works to the downside, and is the reason small junior- type mining companies are generally more volatile.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:03
OLD GOLD (gold price targets) ID#238295:
Bob: I expect bullion to be at least $350 by yeaer- end. Could move much higher, but even $350 will trigger huge upward moves in gold equities.

There is littl doubt that gold will, in time, make new highs above $800. May take a few years though.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 10:03
Dave in CO (@BillD) ID#215211:
Just listen to his voters on the street. It doesn't matter to his them if he commits perjury, obstruction of justice, child molestation, or even murder. The voting block of these government leeches will continue to grow until this wonderful country implodes in the very near future.
Here's to investments in PM's, guns, ammo, and food.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:59
tolerant1 (STUDIO_R relentless by any other name!) ID#31868:
I thought I saw the flash of the your golden sword on Wall Street yesterday, golden thundebolts and lightning, caught a glimse of you amidst the blinding arcs, ferocity unchained.

Ah, but brothers vronsky and bart of the house of metal must come to agreement, for all here will benefit. One the provider of a stage, and one a provider of actors. Alas, STUDIO_R I must turn up the bottle of golden tequila and quench a thirst brought about by brooding on such a subject.

I can only hope for the best as any goldist must strive to do.

Get Camdesuss!!!


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:53
BillD (You just gotta LOVE those Frence) ID#261269:
The comment by dentist Danielle Rebaud sums up French reaction
to the tales of sex and seduction shaking America. If many
Americans are disbelieving and disgusted at the possibility that
President Clinton may have pressured a young intern to lie about
their alleged affair, the French are not. 23 Jan 1998 20:02 EST

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:48
BillD (@HOT off the press) ID#261269:
Well...Well...Well...

WASHINGTON ( AP ) Monica Lewinsky is offering to testify that
she did have a sexual relationship with President Clinton, if
Whitewater prosecutors will give her immunity from perjury, a
source familiar with the negotiations said today. 24 Jan 1998
09:47 EST

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:45
Carl (Out of the mouth of the liberal press) ID#333131:
Dan Shore used the term tailgate this morning on NPR.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:42
Bob M (Old Gold) ID#26059:
Where do you see spot gold at the end of this year...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:42
STUDIO.R (@T#1.... The First Amendment, proviso 13b.....) ID#93232:
So is like Bart going to banish vronsky? Alas! The battle of the gold- site titans...kinda' like Gates and Netscape. Stand aside.....duck! I think I'm rich again after yesterday's little bump...except for the oil part...on second thought...hell, I'm broke...where did I put that mezcal elixer?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:39
OLD GOLD (buy the dips) ID#238295:
When aproaching the gold market we should remember Chairman Mao's dictum - - respect the enemy tactically, but despise him stategically. Gold is going MUCH higher, but there will be myriad selloffs along the way. My prefered stategy is to buy the dips, not chase the rallies.

Gold stocks and Asian stocks will be the big winners this year. But both will be very volatile; many will be shaken out.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:35
tolerant1 (TED) ID#31868:
Is there a bad weekend to drink rum?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:30
BUFFORD ((wedding bells for barrick & newmont)) ID#253246:

Is it possible that Peter Monk may be stepping down from Barrick in order for the
overdue marriage between Barrick & Newmont. There would be tremendous
cost savings by combining their Nevada & South American operations . any thoughts

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:27
tolerant1 (Speed ?) ID#31868:
I believe it refers to the particular type of mining the company is specifically set up for. Sorta like the a football team being geared towards a passing attack versus a running attack.



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:26
STUDIO.R (@Ted....Two-Timin' Ted.....) ID#93232:
Teddo,

Here's may latest thought...hell, if it's okay for the Prez, who am I to quarrel? Out with cronies last night...better than studying Anutter. The thought occurs to me that I need younger friends with younger wives ( that wear gold...so I said it ) not to commit sex crimes...or anything like that...just to look or maybe touch a bit...no bad stuff. I didn't realize this was all okay Wow, dumbbutt me...Where have I been?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:20
Speed (Question) ID#286199:
What does the term geared or gearing mean? As in, The mining company is heavily geared?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:20
tolerant1 (John Disney re3:28) ID#31868:
There is no question that there has been a major push to destabilize RSA, and there is no question that gold, etc. is the prize, not social justice.

I agree with you 100% within that specific.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:19
Caper (@ gotta go get rain gear) ID#334174:
Save me a seat- bbl

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:17
Speed (These guys got it right) ID#286199:
The McClellan Market Report
P.O. Box 4126, Glendale, Calif. 91222
JANUARY 9
About 200 days after a major peak in the McClellan Summation Index, there is usually an important bottom in the stock market. We saw a major peak in July 1997, so we look for an important bottom around April 30. Until then, NYSE indexes should remain in a sideways trading range. The Nasdaq market, however, has shown very good breadth and appears poised to reassert its leadership. It should trend higher until this summer. Bonds are still in an uptrend; our bet for what would end the uptrend would be a prime rate cut following the February 3- .4 FOMC meeting. Gold stocks should bottom January 15, then zoom higher.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:16
panda (speed) ID#30116:
I guess Barron's presupposes that there will be no demand for gold? Who will supply the consumption side of the market? The central banks? I don't think so.

The Asian situation is not over. It is not the end of the problems over there. It is merely the end of the begining of the problems over there. The fallout will continue with each passing storm cleansing more debris from the financial air...

Off to shovel/pushing the various forms of water... :- (

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:12
Caper (@ Same Subject) ID#334174:
P.E.T.'s ex- beloved. Young Mounted Policemen at the time were quoted that
to be stationed @ 24 Sussix Dr- Best Postings they ever had. Tolerant
Quote- Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:08
panda (@ugh!) ID#30116:
Away to shovel, ( or is it push? ) the slush from the snow that was supposed to be washed away by the rain....

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:07
Speed (Barron's broadside against GOLD) ID#286199:
Undermined
Gold's long slump threatens some firms
By Cheryl Strauss Einhorn

Key Commodity Indexes

After hitting a 19- year low of $279 an ounce on January 8, gold has rallied; a nice gain Friday pushed its price to $300, about 7% higher than its level two weeks earlier. But many analysts believe the rebound will be short- lived. Why? Because the activity was largely technical, fund- based buying. Too, Friday's market reacted to the falling U.S. dollar and President Clinton's latest scandal. Besides that short- term activity, and some physical sales to India, which are expected to decline after the Chinese New Year, the same problems that plagued gold in 1997, are likely to dog it during 1998's first half. These include: central bank disposals, poor demand from financially worn Asia and a sound low- inflation economic outlook that bodes better for financial than physical assets. The sell- side has it for the first half, says Felix Freeman, Scotia McLeod's gold analyst. Prices are expected to decline toward the $265 area for the next three to four months. This is not a good sign for gold companies. Already, the market has seen the actual failure of Rea Gold. And just last week brought the effective failure of Pegasus Gold. Too, despite weak prices, real- estate concern TrizecHahn decided last week to dump its 28 million- share stake in Barrick Gold. Clearly, Trizec thought it could put its money to better use. Ostensibly, Trizec's gold- savvy chief executive, Peter Munk, doesn't expect prices to revive soon. While gold stocks have been battered, they're still generally overvalued. The average stock trades at a 70% premium to its underlying net asset value. There is only one possible recommendation - - sell the lot,asserts Freeman. He figures a decline to $265 an ounce would reduce gold- stock prices another 16% , in part because the shares tend to fall by 3% for every 1% drop in the metal's price. Even more bearish, should the stocks'current premium shrink to, say, 5% of the value of a company's total gold reserves, Freeman expects the stocks to skid by another 30% - 34% . This level of short- term risk obviates buying any of these stocks, even on a more optimistic one- year view, he says. Furthermore, possible mine closures and re- assessments, project cancellations and companies succumbing to debt problems will make individual stocks even more risky. Without growth in production and reserves, it's tough to argue that these companies' shares should be trading at a premium. And analysts estimate that the industry can't sustain more than about six months of the current conditions without setting back future growth by several years, owing to the need to rebuild financial strength. So, which companies could be the next victims of the plunge in gold prices? Most likely, those with a lot of financial leverage- debt - - on top of their operating leverage. Financial leverage enables a company to make a bigger bet than otherwise, but the reverse is true, too. Companies that use financial leverage are at the greatest risk in a market downturn. Companies fitting into this category include: Echo Bay Mines, Royal Oak, Coeur d'Alene Mines, Amax Gold and even gold major Newmont Gold. The most leveraged - - Freeman calls them the walking dead - - have so much debt that they might not be able to service their liabilities until the industry turns. Hence, even if they have valuable mines, they still may not make it because it's unclear when gold will strengthen significantly. For instance, Amax Gold just reported yearend results. Total current assets: $118.6 million. Liabilities: $221 million. Net current assets? Minus $102.4 million. Surprisingly, few companies have strong hedge positions that could protect them from a further price decline for more than a year. Without any hedges at current prices, 40% of gold- mine production is unprofitable. Even companies like Homestake Mining could suffer. Homestake is one of the more leveraged equity plays on gold prices, given the company's high costs and relatively flat forward- production profile. It isn't likely that Homestake will be able to post forward growth from its current gold assets, contends ABN Amro's Tom Hinrichs. Result: Should gold prices remain below $300, Homestake will eventually be forced to write down a minimum of 25% of their proven and probable reserves, he maintains. Says Homestake's Mike Steeves, It is our goal to address these concerns. Could any of these companies become takeover targets? The experts don't think that will happen soon. Says Hinrichs: Many of these companies' chance of survival is next to nil.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:07
Caper (@ Ted) ID#334174:
Politics aside- one thing about our beloved P.E.T. in a similar situation-
would have admitted to these same indiscretions with a smile- & proud
of it- enjoy your brewskis.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 09:06
panda (O.K. Let's Swap IOUs...) ID#30116:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980124/apec_panel_1.html
Come on now! Your currencies are in trouble and you want to swap IOUs ( bonds demominated in those currencies ) to shore up those currencies? My head is spinning! These derivatives, I mean currencies, are getting just too complicated!

Ted, Canadian buck at $0.65 U.S.? Tell the Candian C.B. to buy gold and announce convertability. Then watch what happens.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:55
Ted (STUDIO.R.................come on back cause-----------) ID#364147:
I'm fukin lost without ya!!!....What the HELL am I supposed ta do Monday mornin when the 'opening bell' rings on the COMEX ( HUH ) ....buy- - - sell- - huh?...away to scratch my head~~~~~~~GO SOONERS! ( will that help? )

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:50
vronsky (http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_98/oracle012298.html) ID#426220:

SOUTHEAST ASIAN SILVER SAVIOR

ORACLE has discovered yet another investment vehicle, whereby the hapless Asians might have SAVED EVEN MORE of their destroyed wealth - IN FACT CONSIDERABLY MORE!: SILVER.

The report shows charts depicting the price of SILVER in the five
beleaguered currencies during the last six months: Thailand's baht, Indonesia's rupiah, Malaysia's ringgit, Philippines' peso and South Korea's won. RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!

Whereas GOLD was and is a bonanza for Asians, SILVER is indeed a TREASURE- HOUSE. Even the most blind and ardent adherent to paper money is forced to concede THE VISUAL PROOF OF THE SILVER SAVIOR.

To read the report, copy & paste ABOVE URL to your Internet call- up window ( Location or “Go To” ) , then hit ENTER.



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:42
Ted (Poorboys......and a .65 DOLLAR) ID#364147:
ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH....maybe I'll start drinkin BEFORE my walk!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:40
Ted (Poorboys.............and Barrons Commodity Corner............and RUM) ID#364147:
Mornin Poorboys: Since misery loves company,I'm very pleased to hear yer weather suks too...Actually I don't mind bad weather as it creates a nice mood to sit inside with a nice fire goin and imbibe a few...Where's CherOkee and that 'peace pipe'...eh....Some real ( as Gaston2 already reported ) negaive sh!t on GOLD in Barrons Commodity corner this mornin ( right on!- bein the contrarian that I am ) and aside from sayin gold 265,they say GOLD stox have another 30- 34 ( where'd they come up with the damn FOUR ) percent on the DOWN- side and that companies such as Amax,Royal Oak,CDE,ECO, and even NGC ( give me a fukin break ) could be in trouble ( jesus,am I scared or what ) ...You can feed the birds but I'm gettin ready for my daily 7.8 mile walk and then I'll come back and C how unhealthy I can get...Build it up - - - knock it down...eh...P.S. One more down day in- a- row for the LOONIE and I'll go LOONIE...

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:38
Poorboys (Who@Knows) ID#224149:
Ted- You know how many big boys have left the Gold market since Bre- x - - - sort of - - Are they really coming back to the stocks- - - - maybe just for a quick play- - - - Dont trust any of those monkees - - - Gold - - - something like a drug- rush - - - maybe a few months but long term the charts will tell the truth - - - - looking to go long C$ soon - - - Our country has problems but .65 seems a steal if we see .65.- - - Away to feed the squirrels

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:21
Poorboys (Golden@Day@Yesterday) ID#224149:
Ted- Good Morning - - Freezing rain coming to the Lake Today- - - strange weather - - - Kitco now commercial free - - - - - maybe - - - maybe not - - - Away to feed the Cardinals

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:20
Ted (CAPER + RUM) ID#364147:
Hey Caper....looks like a good weekend to drink some RUM...eh..Think I'll pound a few ( dozen ) today~~~~~~~and watch the insults about MY president and IDOL,Mr. Billy- Bob ( with the wandering DICK ) Clinton~~~~~~~~~

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 08:17
Ted (Can anyone beat our weather(eat yer hearts out).....according to Environment Canada) ID#364147:
CAPE BRETON.
WIND WARNING CONTINUED FOR THE HIGHLANDS FOR TONIGHT.
RAINFALL ADVISORY CONTINUED FOR TONIGHT AND SUNDAY.
TODAY..OVERCAST. SNOW BEGINNING NEAR NOON CHANGING THROUGH
FREEZING RAIN AND ICE PELLETS TO RAIN THIS AFTERNOON. SNOWFALL
AMOUNTS 5 TO 8 CM. RAINFALL AMOUNTS NEAR 5 MM. WINDS LIGHT
INCREASING TO SOUTHEAST 50 KM/H THIS AFTERNOON. HIGHS NEAR PLUS 2.
TONIGHT..RAIN HEAVY AT TIMES. RAINFALL AMOUNTS NEAR 30 MM.
WIND SOUTHEAST 50 KM/H WITH GUSTS TO 120 KM/H FROM MARGAREE TO
BAY ST LAWRENCE. TEMPERATURE RISING TO NEAR PLUS 5.
SUNDAY..RAIN TAPERING TO SHOWERS AND DRIZZLE NEAR NOON.
RAINFALL AMOUNTS 15 MM. WIND SOUTHERLY 40 KM/H. HIGHS NEAR 6.
PROBABILITY OF PRECIPITATION IN PERCENT 100 TODAY. 100 TONIGHT.
100 SUNDAY.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 07:52
Ted (MOONEY...............................................) ID#364147:
Have you heard about the Clinton sex- scandal? Sorry ta hear yer puking
And yes,we all get what we deserve...eh

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 06:22
Gaston2 (BARRON's Commodities Corner: GOLD bad for you!) ID#377211:
Cheryl Strauss Einhorn, in Barrons' commodities corner does not like Gold and Gold mining stocks. Essentially cites an expert saying that gold will go down to 265$, rally is purely technical... and bat apsects are as follows:
These include: central bank disposals, poor demand from financially worn
Asia and a sound low- inflation economic outlook that bodes better for
financial than physical assets. The sell- side has it for the first
half, says Felix Freeman, Scotia McLeod's gold analyst. Prices are
expected to decline toward the $265 area for the next three to four
months.
How about trying to tame that rally!. I remember vividly Alan Ableson downgrading Compaq for 2 weeks in a row ( Editorial, Barrons ) and Compaq immediately going on a tear up.
I understand the points she is making about gold but personally I do not believe that this rally will lead to news lows soon. If it does, the next rally will be even stronger... Just a guess. Europeans don't care about Barrons' commodities corner. In France, it is common in investement books to suggest investors to have about 15% of their portfolio in gold... ( ! ) .

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 06:21
2BR02B? () ID#266105:

That's giving it the old what- for, chap!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 05:37
Hedgehog (Peter Blegvad King Strut and other stories ) ID#39845:
My head is spinning as fast as gold related news floods in. All I
have to say is good luck and man your stations. And, has anyone got
the words to Gold by Peter Blegvad and if so would it be possible
for them to be posted here at Kitco by anyone? Or may I politely
request that Bart might give us some background music in the
form of Peter Blegvad. That would be great!
All thats left is dust in the Accountants purse
I guess this would get Hepcat purring.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 05:21
Ersel (@ John Disney....merci.) ID#228283:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 05:11
John Disney__A (Laissez les bons temps roullez) ID#24135:
For Ersel

I would suggest Vaal Reefs and cancel her subcription to

all newspaper and sell her TV set. Read books, go to movies,

garden, take walks, develope an interest in cricket. Enjoy

a better life.

Also leave the room at the mention of the dreaded name

Zaddeek the misspeller.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 05:04
JIN (ZIVA........) ID#206358:
ZIVA,
Another piece of bad news from INDONESIA:
Foreign banks pull plug on
US$ funds to Indon
customers

Banker says there is real danger of systemic collapse of
banking system

By S N Vasuki


NDONESIA's banking system has come to a virtual
standstill as several major international banks pulled the plug
on US dollar funds because of the rupiah's steep plunge and
perceptions of growing political risks.

Analysts warned that the reluctance of foreign banks to take on
fresh Indonesian exposure will have explosive ramifications.

The rupiah tumbled again to the 15,000 range against the dollar
yesterday, but subsequently recovered to the 12,000 range after
Bank Indonesia, the central bank, intervened. The recovery did
not impress foreign banks, particularly those from America and
Europe which have made up their minds to freeze their Indonesian
exposure.

We have been asked not to take any more Indonesian exposure
on a cross- border basis, said a country manager of an
international bank in Jakarta. The reasons are quite simple. The
underlying risks of taking fresh exposure are huge. There is a real
threat of a systemic collapse in the Indonesian banking system.
There is the very real possibility of Indonesia declaring a debt
moratorium or capital controls. And the rupiah is not likely to hit
rock- bottom anytime soon.

The banker highlighted three major decisions taken by his bank
this week to limit Indonesian exposure:
First, the bank has stopped honouring all Indonesian letters of
credit, hitting exporters where it hurts most.
Second, the bank has instructed its Jakarta branch to cease
participating in the local inter- bank market, cutting off an important
source of short- term funds for local banks.
Third, on the retail banking side, the international bank has
stopped issuing fresh credit cards, overdrafts and consumer loans
to individual customers. Credit card transactions and dues are
being monitored closely.

Neil Saker of Soc- Gen Crosby in Singapore said that Indonesia's
banking crisis was as bad, if not worse than the Latin American
crisis of the early eighties.

But the point to remember is that confidence can be restored very
quickly, he said. Favourable things are beginning to happen on
the economic front and if there is a resolution of the ( presidential )
succession issue, the panic conditions will ease.

But that is small comfort to a leading garment exporter who
yesterday told BT that his once thriving export business had hit a
major road- block this week. The exporter, who imports small
quantities of raw silk and other inputs from Europe, said that all
foreign banks have stopped confirming letters of credit.

They want me to send the cash in advance because the banks
fear that the risks magnify every single day in Indonesia, he said.
I can't afford to pay cash in advance and my business prospects
have never been bleaker.

However some Indonesian banks appear to be in a fortunate
position. A senior vice- president of a local bank, with assets of
just 5 trillion rupiah, said that foreign banks were still dealing with
his institution. We have been borrowing money this week from
foreign institutions in the inter- bank market, he said. The interest
rates range anywhere from 40 per cent to 60 per cent. But it is not
available to everybody.

He added that though domestic loan growth has crashed since
August 1997, the inability of local banks to access fresh lines of
credit is a potential time- bomb ticking away at the heart of the
system. Local banks like ours need the money because of
phenomenal cash withdrawals at all our branches, he said. If we
are unable to honour depositors' obligations, that will trigger a
chain reaction within the system.

Ironically, this should be the best of times for foreign banks
operating in Indonesia. Most of them are flush with funds because
of a flight of capital. Nervous Indonesians have been pulling money
out of local private and even state- owned banks over fears that
some of these institutions will be liquidated.

In theory, we should be laughing all the way, said a
Singapore- based banker. Our interest rates on deposits are just 8
per cent to 10 per cent while average inter- bank rates over the last
three months have been in the 50- 60 per cent range. But the risks
of lending money to local banks are too high. Local banks are
now appealing to the Indonesian government to step in to resolve
the crisis. President Suharto highlighted these problems to a visiting
delegation from Japan's foreign ministry on Thursday.

Specifically, local banks want the central bank to address two
critical issues.

First, to speedily introduce the National Deposit Insurance
Scheme that is aimed at protecting the interests of small
depositors. Second, for the central bank to launch a new scheme
that will enable exporters to access letters of credit for imports of
raw materials and inputs.

The deposit insurance scheme will boost the confidence of
Indonesians about the safety of their savings, a local banker said.
And the scheme to help exporters with letters of credit is vital for
the recovery of the economy.

He added that the cost to the government of introducing both
schemes is small compared to the benefits. Imports, he said, had
fallen to less than US$1 billion ( S$1.7 billion ) a month and the
scarcity of dollars in the local market was exacerbating the
situation.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 05:02
John Disney__A (I have a problem) ID#24135:
For Mozel

The Beruit accord that you refer to _ is this hypothetical

presumed or REal can you expand a bit?

I have difficulty with your para one and two - maybe im

misreading

Para 1 seems to says that the oil price is fixed in terms

of oz of gold per bbl of oil - But para 2 implies that if demand

goes down - the supliers must get the same amount of gold

even IF offtake FALLS.

Wait a minute - I cant believe that is what you are

saying.

1. set the price of oil in terms of GOLD = 0.66 oz of gold

for a bbl of arab light ex Ras tanura ( for example ) . Thats

easy .

2. but providing a fixed amout of gold regardless of offtake

in almost impossible - That means the price of oil in gold

must go UP if offtake falls. The converse is the real

problem - unlimited offtake and the price of oil falls in gold

terms as offtake is increased. NO - never fly. Saudis wont go

for that - this is a replay of the 1970s when they clamped the

oil off - I was there.

I can believe ( 1 ) but big oil cos take oil to various

affiliates and are paid $$ for ultimate tranfer to Saudis

after their cut ( for supply and downstream ) - Then Saudis

take money to Banks and buy gold - is that mechanism ?

Sorry to appear stupid. Please expand. Im very interested.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 05:00
refer (Mozel @ profession) ID#41229:
Are you a professor in Corperate law or international bussiness law. You have access to and knowledge of legal preceedings that a typical person or lawyer would not know where to look or readily have. Obviously this is or was your line of work, not a hobby. You definitely enjoy or enjoyed your work.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 04:44
Ersel (@ John Disney..DITTOS!!) ID#228283:

Just now awoke and got caught up on all posts. Couldn't agree more.We need you, Haggis, and Mozel for spokesmen/statesmen in this Godforsaken country!
Just talked my sweet 83 year old mother into buying some gold stocks for income, any safe RSA recommendations?
Sorry..hate cricket...love soccer.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:43
mozel (gold oil $ relationship) ID#153102:
The Beruit accord expressed that the $'s received for so much oil in barrels would be sufficient to purchase so many oz of gold.

If demand for oil decreases and its $ price decreases, the $ price of gold must be forced down in order to keep the ratio. Or allow the Arabs more gold for oil than provided in the accord.

It is also certainly possible that a quid pro quo for ejecting the Iraqi's out of Kuwait was an improvement in the gold oil ratio that has not been published.

Either scenario would explain aggressive de- hoarding of gold by the CB's. And certainly since oil is such a large part of the CPI, price managing oil and gold achieves two inflation perception goals at one stroke. So it would be surprising to me if this drop in gold price is not fallout from Desert Storm.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:39
John Disney__A (An afterthought) ID#24135:
For Oris

Sam is right - watch out for double agents AND double

books !! Dont forget that - Did I say try a little mustard

and balsamic vinegar ( just a touch ) in the taboulli ( burp )

For the so called Preacher

I just remembered you saying some cheap shot about a third

world Country - Wow - you with a president that cant keep his

willie covered and One impeached president already Are you

joking - and you getting ready for another war to quieten

down the citizenry AND after papering the world with your

DEBT. Are you serious Reread revelations - you may be

led by one of the main characters.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:38
Steve - Perth (May be a bad link) ID#284177:
Gold Above US$300 - Commentary
http://www.the- privateer.com/gold6.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:36
Steve - Perth (Scouring the net for you! Steve’s specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA) ID#284177:
Email Steve: steve@compsb.eepo.com.au

BREAKING STORIES:

Council on Foreign Relations & the NWO
http://www.parascope.com/mx/council1.htm

The corruption of the House of Saud
http://www.saudhouse.com/index.htm

Gold Above US$300 - Commentary
http://www.the- privateer.com/gold6.html

The Wrong Threat - Steve Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/98/0126/6102027a.htm

The IMF needs a bailout, & the deals to get it
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/05/b3563081.htm

The Asian bug starts to bite the US
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/05/b3563093.htm

Singapore property takes a hit
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/05/b3563163.htm

Going where the money is - Review
http://www.businessweek.com/1998/04/b3562033.htm

Another French Revolution in the making
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/04/b3562076.htm

Commodity prices are tanking
http://www.businessweek.com/premium/04/b3562042.htm

MAI - A conspiracy theory worth worrying about
http://www.brw.com.au/brw04.htm

Costly lure of Globalisation - Setting the Scene for a Yen bloc
http://www.brw.com.au/brw19.htm

Asian fallout smooths Euro money union
http://www.brw.com.au/brw12.htm

IN REVIEW:

Rupiah plummets again as confusion, fear stalk markets
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980124/pageone/pageone4.html

Australia on alert over Indonesia
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/news/news1.html

Rupiah slides 20pc as investors reject IMF- backed Budget
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/world/world3.html

Value and prospects translate to profit in Asia - The Maverick
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/market/markets2.html

Institutions tread softly on increasing Asian exposure
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980124/banking/banking2.html

What to do about Asia ( series of Articles )
http://www.businessweek.com/1998/04/b3562001.htm

The coming oil shock
http://www.gigweb.com/news/it/report/

Australian economy feels the pinch
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980123/news/news1.html

Lawyers say profit from Asian pain
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980123/business/business3.html

This time it's for real, Kim warns chaebols
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/world/world2.html

ANZ Bank $2.7bn Asian fallout
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980122/banking/banking1.html

Intriguing moves in HK property moves - Time to buy
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980121/world/world2.html

Bargain hunt on in Korea
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980121/market/markets3.html

Japan: the $164bn collapse
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980120/business/business1.html

Soros rumoured to clean up in Korea
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/world/world2.html

Is Asia qualifying for 'blood in the streets' time?
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/invest/ivsuper.html

Cross rate gives lie to crisis
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980120/market/markets4.html

RADICAL ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM FIRES UP
http://www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/jan1998/islamic.html

Russian Update
http://www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/jan1998/russia.html

A New Economic Order is coming
http://www.jvim.com/IntelligenceBriefing/jan1998/cover.html

Airlines cannot fix Y2K Bug in time ( Jan 15th article )
http://www.jvim.com/cgi- bin/update.cgi

Behind Hashimoto's Remark on Dumping U.S. Treasuries
http://www.japanecho.co.jp/docs/html/240506.html

Japanese Communist Party gaining ground with jaded voters
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980117/world/world9.html

Deflation: Strategies to cope with it
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980117/smart/smart1.html

China still haunted by devaluation
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980117/market/markets4.html

Results indicate Gold oversold
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/980116/business/business8.html

Asian blowout feared for European car makers
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980115/world/world3.html

Asia a worry for German banks
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980114/banking/banking5.html

Taiwan prepares for yuan's fall by June - - just in case
http://www.afr.com.au/content/980110/world/world3.html

BOOKMARK Steve’s News Page: ( Courtesy of Colin Seymour - UK )
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/blizard.htm

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:28
John Disney__A (Dr Bob - you asked for it) ID#24135:
for Dr Bob

Some more comments - you noticed that the p/e ratios

of RSA golds other than DD ( like Harmony ) are good too

and asked why. There are more than harmony - Slime

reprocessing companies like east- dagga are paying a 29%

dividend. Buy it in an offshore trust and you and you

can have it tax free. Not bad.

The Kitco site is great - Read mozel and many others.

The good thing is that many of the people on the site

have realized that the US news media is a truly grand

instrument of deception, disinformation and

manipulation. Im NOT overstating. This carries over

into the British press with respected journals like the

FT and the Economist ( which I subscribe to for the

last 2 pages ) being among the worst. One exception,

the Spectator ( top stuff with great cartoons ) .

Who runs the deception who knows who cares Its

basically the really BIG dough - rockefeller rothschild

whoever.

One ( among many ) of their objectives is to neutralize

South Africa. Think about it. A country with roughly

15 per cent of the US population, and 50% more gold

production, and the bulk of the worlds pgm and

diamonds - you know most of the worlds traditional

goodies. Plus a fairly docile and cooperative Black

population ( vastly different from US Blacks - derived

mainly from the Africam west coast via the slave trade

and politically polarized to the point of hopelessness ) .

The big boys want RSA to themselves - THEY want this

market. So the press is paid to bad mouth it every

chance they get and apply Maximum negative spin. We

had many more reporters in George for the non- event

botha adjournment than demonstrators by far.

During the late 1980s period when I came here to

catch the bottom of the real estate market, the press

were PAYING for demonstrations and NECKLACINGS. Dont

believe it - okay by me.

This is the reason I react so fiercly to little

half smart Zaddeek - who only reads from the Press

about what goes on here - and fancies himself an

anal- yst even though he is numerical handicapped

and practically crippled in the spelling department.

He just perpetuates the mischievous objectives of the

big boys - not knowingly of course - he's just an

example of a tiny prawn - er pawn.

Even the local press plays the game. It suits

everyone's purpose.

Were you here when we had Karlita Now what was

that all about Who was it and why was it here

Zakkeek is simply a little Karlita clone in charge

of RSA. Try to bad mouth RSA till the US banks have

bought all the script. Ignore this kind of stuff.

In 1986, I was listening to the BBC late night news

lanquishing on my bed in Andorra and the late

news came on = the lady said WE have no reports of

violence in South Africa today - first item .

Get IT FIRST NEWS ITEM WAS NO NEWS - KINDA Strange

wouldnt you say - MEANS they spent the day looking for

something but came up empty. I jumped up and said EUREKA

- Its all bullsh!t. and called a travel agent in the

morning. One flight only from Madrid - and a tiny little

sign up so no one could see that the plane went to RSA.

Sanctions you know - RSA is EVIL. Crimes against humanity.

Dont believe ME - read up on the Angola War and

South Africa in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Do lots of

homework but always remember whos doing the writing and

why. The Chester Crocker book is probably not too

bad but I think he was under a cloud. Bruce Spingsteen

and Sting and Streisand hadnt approved of his

contructive engagemnet policy.

Its up to you what you do. But you asked and I told

you. end of story

Ok now listening to barbara bonney singing Barbers

St Itas Vision - wall to wall goosebumps - what a

voice then the horseracing and counting my money -

Tomorrow More Cricket - so ill take the rest of the

day off and leave you to zadeeks mindless drivel.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:21
powmain (Bad News) ID#225127:
The sad thing about the current state of the US political system is that none of the current political leaders have the statue, character, morality, conscience, statesmanship, or integrity to force Klinton to answer for his conduct.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 03:10
sam (oris) ID#286234:
I have been searching for the secret flavoring agent in Monglian Beef for many years. I hope you find it. My friend says that shaved gold or shaved silver ( forgets which ) is used as a decoration/garnish on some Indian dishes. This is a consumptive use I have not heard mentioned here. Beware double agents my friend.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:49
refer (JTF@Gold/ Oil relationship) ID#41229:
It is my understanding that the relation ship is by weight not $ value, so it was to the benefit of who ever that is purchasing gold to trade for oil to have price lower. Since it is Gold weight/ oil gallon ratio, the raise of gold should not effect the price of oil, except that it is becoming more expensive on the purchaser of the oil, via higher gold prices. It is now being off set, to what degree not sure sense we don't know actual ratio, but demand down for oil. With $ going down this also helps Europe with stronger currency. But from what Another posts it sounds of deal is only with Saudi, It would be interesting knowing who buys largest % of Saudi oil?; would it not?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:41
IV (Inflation and Deflation) ID#420428:
These amount to the same thing. Destabilization. Why don't we just admit that deflation means depression, a shrinking of enerty in the system, just as mental depression means a loss of energy. Why all of a sudden deflation? It's just a term to avoid the truthf. The world economy is no longer stable and it is either going to blow up into inflation or fall back into depression.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:30
JTF (One last post for the night) ID#57232:
SDRer: When you get a chance, can you tell us about any new developments that make you think a world- wide financial crisis is just around the corner? Do we have an imminent collapse of a world- class bank - - repeating the failure of the Rothschilds Austrian Kreditenstat bank in 1932 ( approx date ) ?

We have to be on our toes these days, with the crosscurrents of inflation and deflation, and the imminent entry of the Independence into the Persian Gulf. Now Y Arafat wants 60% of the disputed property in the occupied territories.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:26
Dave in CO (Heard on radio news that attack possible against Iraq - may already be planned) ID#215211:
The Sec. of this Socialist State, Albright, who believes that her boss is telling the truth but didn't know she was Jewish, is banging the war drum again. Where's the CIC? Just wonder if she'll drive through to Baghdad and take out Sadaam?

Let's see. I need a bunch of ammunition, AK47's, a couple of years worth of food, a White House Intern, lip balm, and a large cave.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:22
IV (US CB GOLD PURCHASES) ID#420428:
Does anyone know how much gold is being bought or sold by the US govt? Other CB's are often discussed, but what is the US doing while gold is thus depressed?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:22
JTF (Oil prices dropping --) Gold up?) ID#57232:
All: Signing off! Thought some might be interested in thinking about several items:

First: Gold price as a means of maintaining the price of Oil. We must give ANOTHER credit for linking the price of gold to the price of Oil. Mike Sheller related to us comments by Wayne Angell, a former Fed governor who said that it was possible to counter the rising price of oil by pushing gold down, since the gold market was thinner than the oil market.

I have another question: Since the price of oil is dropping, shouldn't the price of gold be allowed to go back up?

Second: I am looking at Steve Peutz' article in the Jan 98 News and Views ( Centennial Precious Metals ) . He makes a strong argument that the IMF bailouts have only allowed certain debtors to roll over certain debts rather than addess fundamental issues. He argues fairly convincingly that the Mexico IMF investor bailout only encouraged investment money to flow into SE Asia, creating the investment bubble. He then quotes Marc Faber in the Dec 15 issue of Barron's as saying that he has never witnessed the degree of wealth destruction that has visited on Asia in just the last six months. Steve also mentions that grain orders from the SEAsian countries have been cancelled, and that food demand is the last thing to go during a deflationary process. Hence he goes on to say - - we are at risk for severe world wide deflation.

My question to Steve is this: What you are predicting is a massive world- wide deflationary collapse. If you are correct, gold stocks would be a poor investment right now, because the risk of massive deflation ( US market crash ) is around the corner. I would submit, in parallel with the 1929- 1932 period, that gold stocks might not be a good investment until after the initial market crash. Investment in physical gold would offer a lesser risk, but even that might offer a greater return later.

Third: The dollar has been dropping for three days: From 101 to the current price of 98.5. Since the Monicagate matter is apparently the most serious threat ever to the Clinton presidency, I wonder if the dollar drop and the gold rise is actually do to a world- wide loss in faith of the strength of the US dollar. If so - - we may be seeing the beginnings of a presidential crisis gold rally - - which as I recall also occurred when President Nixon was under a cloud during the heatup of the Watergate crisis. As long as the US stock market dwindles or steadily drops, gold stocks will do well. But as I have said ( as well as others ) if you wish to invest in gold stocks, keep one eye on the exits for a possible stock market crash, which will suck the gold stocks down. One could make a quick profit in gold stocks before a market crash ( which may not come this year ) but beware the crash of the gold bug Tsunami!

Have a nice weekend, everyone!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:12
Haggis__A (Hell Bill......................) ID#398105:

Throw a party......... invite ALL your ex- lovers to it .........

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:06
Haggis__A (To Bill Clinton.............) ID#398105:

Sound the trumpit, round up the troops, get all the backing you can.

Visit Wall Street next week !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 02:02
Haggis__A (To Bill Clinton.........some advice............) ID#398105:

Bill from one mate to another...........

You have got to change your ways. Self sacrifice is required, one cannot think of oneself, but for the country.......

Volunteer to be the sexual harassment cousellor at your workplace......

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:33
John Disney__A (Spoken like a true Scot) ID#24135:
For Haggis

You guys never give an inch - I admire that. But Im

surprised to hear that Warne and the Waugh brothers are on

the second team - That first team must be a lulu.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:31
Mooney* (President's, Sheep and B.S.) ID#348169:
On Thursday morning ( about 8:00 ) , I lamented here about the inanity of the sheep in America. I apologise. My focus was too narrow. The sheep no longer only include the deluded ( and qualuded? ) population of the U.S.of A. The affliction is worldwide. - Bahhhhh, Bahhh! Wars, deflation, inflation, G.N.P., Unemployment, Trillions on the debt clock, Bosnia, mad cow disease, Olympic bombings, 727's vanishing off radar screens, Asian crisis', Bre- x frauds, central bank manipulations, Mine closings, and surplus demand, etc. ad nauseum, could not make gold move more than a couple of bucks. Then the little boy in the little white house who could not control his little thingy makes Gold do something it hasn't done in a coon's age. Once again, I apologise. On Thursday morning I lamented on these pages about how most Americans waste far too large a percentage of their lives worrying about their NOMINAL chief's personal situation or even what will happen to him, or who will be the next Turkey to replace the present one. It seems I was mistaken. Not only are most Americans complete fools and sheep, - so too is the REST of the world inhabited by SHEEP. Not only was today's reaction to an indiscretion overblown, it was also perverted and DISGUSTING to the nth degree. Grow up people. Think about it. You are wasting precious time and brain cells discussing NONSENSE. This is not one major party breaking into the headquarters of the other major party - this is a kid, who never matured, getting caught. BIG DEAL. I'm retiring to puke in private now. Hope everyone else gets over it soon. If not, tune into 'The Edge of Night', the 'Young and the Restless', 'As the World Turns', or some other equally exciting American drival. Don't like that? Prefer the latest out of Washington? Great! I prefer Drambuie over the rocks. Goodnight Gracie. Goodnight Mooney. - and Goodnight Glenn, wherever you might be.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:27
John Disney__A (The Mystery of Durban Deep - by A Conan Doyle) ID#24135:
For Dr Bob and IDT. Regarding The DD move. It was

a little weird and really surprised ME. My best

quesses at the cost of the new conglomerate were

maybe $325/oz at best and I couldnt see getting in too

deep before gold rose near that point. I felt ok

on Harmony as I had info on the restructuring very

early on. So safety first said Harmony. Rangold

which owns them both plus massive African exploration

rights went up just as well - 28/29% . And Kloof

moves 21% DESPITE the Libanon and Leeudorn Handicap!!

Regrading IDT tax loss comment - id say no - guys had

losses on ALL golds - Why sell only DD. Regarding IDT

point 2 - Id say maybe - The DD move seemed to start

here - The local gold market was OFF over 2 % here but

DD was UP 13% prior to the close. BUT maybe it was

overseas buying. I doubt if the results will be that

good anyway.

I suggest something else BUT ill come to that.

I know Blanchard has been pushing DD pretty hard and

I understnd it has gotten a recent play in the foreign

press.

Now IF a man KNEW that gold was going to go up a

LONG WAY, DD is the play without any doubt. It is

the most highly geared mine that I know of. Also I

think its production is UNhedged - Abx, for

example, is screwed in a fast rising gold market as

it is locked in at its hedged price and doesnt make

much money even at those prices. Similar comments

would apply to Kloof. Every local broker is giving

it a sell since Libs and leeudorn should be closed

down UNLESS gold rises above $400.

So I suspect some fairly big players are taking

good position in DD ( and maybe kloof ) guessing for a

gold price run.

Also Remember - DD is not liquid - very little script

out. Thus in a down market it falls like a rock, and

in a rising market its a star. ABX has a lot of

overvalued script out - a bit like us $ with very few

ounces of gold per share.

Guys like Zaddeek like ABX and I hope he owns a lot

of it. Id hate to see him buy any RSA stock - you know-

there goes the neighborhood kind of thing.


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:24
Haggis__A (John Disney..........I may watch it now and again.............) ID#398105:


Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:22
Haggis__A (John Disney ...................YOU KNOW THAT...............) ID#398105:

......any self respecting Scotsman does not play cricket !

Anyway, you ARE playing Aussies second eleven !!

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:09
Ron (in sack-o-tomatoes) ID#413195:
Limit up for gold is $75 on COMEX . . . That'd be sweet. Remember that an old traders' maxim ( in this case probably about as good as an old wives' tale ) holds that you should take your profit after three consecutive limit up/down days.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 01:08
themissinglink (Economic data resource) ID#373403:
http://www.dri.mcgraw- hill.com/econinfo.htm

Dear Kitco:

It is your system but I think you are making a grave error in censoring discussion on the current White House flap. In my opinion, this situation is different than any other credibility attack on the leader of the free world. It is different in that the media is not giving him the free ride of the past.

This being said, this situation WILL PROBABLY BE THE TRIGGER to world economic recession and instability. We have long analyzed the various shaky fundamentals which underly the U.S. financial system as it gets papered over time and again to the detriment of our beloved AU. We have worried that Asia would be the last straw to force the impending global financial housecleaning which will lead to honest money. Witness President Clinton's call to Suharto of Indonesia, more papering over.

Now the president's ability to muster domestic and international support for the IMF, the Middle East peace process, Iraqi sanctions ( watch Saddam take advantage ) , fast track, etc is SERIOUSLY undermined.

What I am asking is that you not view this as gossip and idle chat. This is as/more important to the future of our current system and gold as a future part of that system as astrology, el nino, Y2K, central bank conspiracies, Greenspan tea leaf reading, and Puetz bashing by LGB.

Let the conversation happen within the relevency to global economic security.

Steve

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:58
Poorboys (Sometime@ThePlayer@Is@The@Scene) ID#224149:
Mozel- It's strange that many like yourself seem to think currency and Gold are one in the same or of some similar value .Socialism exchange for value like so many pigs for so many cows .I feel the world has changed and is about to change more than the clones in the news world Gold can be produced easily like battery powered engines but everything has a time of awaking like the great religions from the many minds of the universe.If one must think he is connected to the universe in some special way with some inside knowledge then why has the past enlightened us to good and evil.You have a choice in this world of bodily ideas and thoughts but the future has much more spiritual meaning ,let gold bring you materialism for moments of success but let giving set you free .Happy Trails And Goodnight.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:48
oris (John Disney) ID#238422:
John, I'll deliver my recipe to you
until the end of this week, I need
to check out this recipe to be sure
you are not gonna have any trouble -
- sorry about tabulli hangover...

Tabulli goes very well with
SHISH KEBAB ( lamb ) or SHISH TAWOK
( chicken ) or just with KEBAB ( ground lamb ) .
That's what I usually order...

I prefer so called SHASHLIK - Georgian
or Armenian recipe, extremely delicious
if cooked properly. It can be lamb, beef
or pork. I wish I could give you recipe,
but I am basically an eater, not a cook.
I'm very good at fixing salads, but
not this SOFISTICATED stuff.








Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:44
mozel (Thank you 1n8) ID#153102:
Connecting the dots is how I go long on sanity in times of undervalued gold.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:38
SDRer__A (Dollar going .....) ID#288157:
International Herald Tribune,
Saturday, January 24, 1998

Bank Sees Euro Start At $1.075
Reuters

LONDON - Deutsche Morgan Grenfell has begun forecasting the
exchange rates at which the planned single European currency, the
euro, will trade against other major currencies, an analyst at the
bank said Friday.

In its latest monthly publication, the company's analysts forecast that
the euro will start life at $1.0753, at 140 yen and at 73.53 British
pence if European economic and monetary union begins on schedule
Jan. 1, 1999.

''We have a responsibility to ensure our publications are up to date,
given that we are the biggest European bank in the EMU area,'' said
Jens Dallmeyer, economist at Deutsche Morgan Grenfell in Frankfurt. ''We regularly publish 12- month forecasts for currencies and interest rates, and this is the first time it reaches into monetary union.''

The analysts assume that all European Union countries except Britain, Sweden, Greece and Denmark will launch monetary union at its scheduled outset.

They also assume that conversion rates between national currencies
and the euro will correspond to the theoretical market value of the
European Currency Unit, or Ecu, in national currencies at the end of
1998. This is because the rules adopted at the Madrid summit in
1995 require the Ecu to be replaced by the euro at a one- to- one
rate and for the external value of the unit to be unaltered by the
transition to currency union.

The bank said its euro forecasts were based on the expectation the
pound will fall to trade at 2.65 Deutsche marks and $1.47 by the
end of the year. It currently trades at about 2.97 DM and $1.65
http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/SAT/FIN/emu.html

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:32
1n8 (mozel....true ...how true....although the spirit and emotion with which) ID#193348:
you make your case may cause the less perceptive to tend to
dismiss it as merely unproven hypothesis created thru
disillutionment in our current situation....however...
passion and emotion make you no less right! you keep those
exceptionally active brian cells busy...and continue the
education of those of us in the ranks of the hoi- poloi..
off to catch the latest on swilly- Billy- - - - 8- ball

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:29
oris (Rob) ID#238422:
Rubin is smart. At this time he is probably dreaming
of letting gold to rise to $350, he has no other choice,
because if he is not gonna do it real soon, his WS buddies
are gonna choke him to death. But he needs not to loose
his face also...



Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:26
mozel (LGB2) ID#153102:
Of course. Sorry.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:21
LGB2__A (@ Mozel) ID#316409:
Speak for yourself....

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:20
PH in LA (Archive access) ID#225408:
HELP!!
Are the Kitco archives unavailable to all? Every time I try to go there my system crashes. Am I doing something wrong? This situation has persisted for a number of days now. I am unaware of having made any changes to my system. Can anyone help?

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:18
John Disney__A (ohmygod - sent following by accident-nothing to do with gold) ID#24135:
For Zaddeek

Shove your 5th dimension - Im not taking my ball

anywhere - Im taking it to your house and Im gonna

play on your front lawn, little boy. Sure you said

to buy RSA stocks - sure you did -

Did you do any time on Clintons staff - If not, they

really need guys like you at times like these. You

are tops at rewriting and misspelling history.

for Oris

Love your posts. Glad to see you patching things up

with Ziva. Can hardly wait for salad recipe. I think

I overdid it with teboulli yesterday ( burp ) . What is

best dish to accompany teboulli ( other than absolute )

roast lamb, or what

For Haggis

Did you watch cricket yesterday Did you enjoy

sight of RSA coming back from nowhere to win first

game of final. Did you SEE alan Donalds fast balls.

No one else did. Particularly Aussie batsmen. Did

you SEE Mr Cool himself Hansie Cronje. What a game.

Aye.

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:17
Rob (If Rubin's smart) ID#410114:
If Rubin is smart and he doesn't like golds rise, he should let it rise to $350 or so then smash it down to to new lows. If he does that it will take a while for gold to recouver

Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:13
mozel (lawful money) ID#153102:

We are dumbed down.

We are compelled to attend government schools and disinformed from the beginning. The newspapers and other media sell us the version of yesterday and today that serves the Corporate Socialist agenda.
It is called the national agenda, this agenda of the federal demon- cracy, the capitol of the greenback empire. The acceptable version was written of our history. Now the acceptable version of history is broadcast to us as current events. We must be dumbed down. For the con men to keep up the con.

John D. Rockefeller was a dishonest, cheat. Yet, he, and many like him, were able to keep ill got gain after the War of Northern Aggression in a way that few had done prior to the War. How could this happen where the law was to uphold the honest and not to reward the dishonest ? The obvious conclusion is that justice was obstructed. The law and the Constitution were subverted. It happened when the post- War 14th Amendment was read to mean that a corporation was a person, having rights equal to any other person. The corporation was by this given the protection of the federal. The era of the greenback attorney in the service not of just law, but of profitable legalities, had begun. The monoploy of the Bar Association soon followed. What chance did the honest man have of getting just law when the legality of anything was for sale in the lobby of Congress and eventually in the lobby of every legislature. If you want to ruin a nation, corrupt its law. Make words mean what they do not seem to mean. Practice word art. Bring in the set up case to establish case law for the agenda. Make moot the case that would expose the agenda by settling it in secret. Publish only the court decisions which support the agenda. Use Foundations to elevate and sponsor your instructors of the young. Complicate and complicate the rules so that a law suit is something only the corporation and the very rich can afford. Do everything to make the next generation more dumbed down and more cynical about just law than the previous. And by every means place just law that much further from the people's grasp. So that finally, to the man untrained in the deceptions of legal word art, the very statutes and court decisions are disinformation. Eventually, even the lawyers don't know just law from legality and you can tell the young the Constitution has passed away. A Columbia University law professor is doing this in print even now. Dishonest money drives honest money and honest men out of the marketplace and out of the professions.

Dishonest paper money is everywhere; fraud is everywhere; and justice is disestablished.

The only effective check on the issuance of paper money by government or by private banks is that gold and silver coin be in circulation. Only their presence prevents devaluation of paper money by excessive issues of it. Only the rigor of the marketplace can hold dishonesty in check. The offspring of politics, legality, certainly cannot do it.

If the federal can confiscate gold by law from the people as was the case in 1933, then the States together can confiscate the gold back from the federal by constitutional law, and apportion it among themselves according to population, and take greenbacks out of circulation by selling the gold as coin back to the people at a fixed rate in greenbacks.

And stable money can forever be guaranteed to posterity by then insuring by constitutional law that the power to charter a bank never again be allowed to the federal government.

Exercise of the lawful constitutional power of the States is the only way to restore our Constitution and save our nation from ruin.

And, when the unlimited credit of the greenback is gone, the means that nations now have to finance sales of weapons to themselves and to other nations will be gone, and the world will be a safer place. And until it is gone, the threat of our freedoms and sovereignty being barter on the international treaty table will never disappear.

But, the paper palace keeps us double minded. Will it survive its crisis and devour us entirely ?








Date: Sat Jan 24 1998 00:03
Pete (Bart) ID#22451:
My Dear Bart,

I want to apologise if I have gone off on a tangent. I mistakenly thought that these matters affected the PM'S. I will cease and desist.

Thank you,
Pete

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