KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:58
Haggis__A U>(aurator...........) ID#398105:

G'Day,

You will have noticed that, in your dealings with Pommies, they don't tend to pop their heads up, too often. Hands up the Poms?!

Aye, Haggis

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:58
aurator U>(She's here) ID#257148:
1998

Such a beautiful baby, full of promise.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:57
Prometheus U>(@all) ID#189273:
Vronsky, StudioR, Haggis, LBG, aurator, poorboy, and all, it's been a pleasure meeting you all this year. May the new year be kind to us all.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:57
Hut__A U>(gold) ID#347235:

There is no way that the gold price will accomodate what most people believe and bounce again at 282. We're going to 274 --just to really shake out the weak money.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:55
Ted U>(Aurator.......and I've been banned from e-mail world) ID#364147:
G'day Aurator ( said with slurred speech ) and fuzy vision...Can't send NO e-mails either...Tried to send you the realtors e-mail that I re-mailed this morn ( early ) lit a fire under her and the doofus Lawyer she picked out for them ( the buyers fer christ sake ) ...they caved totally in and now SAY they will agree to the ORIGINAL agreement...and will do the contract plus downpayment ( 10,000 U.S. ) next week---lawyers barf...and stop the propaganda ROR!!! -not even yoyu could believe that 'crap'.....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:52
Haggis__A U>(aurator..............) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Cannot be correct all the time. Hope I got the last one right.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:50
Haggis__A U>(Soros and Rothchild.................) ID#398105:

Thanks for the URL..........

To argue that financial markets in general, and international lending in particular, need to be regulated is likely to outrage the financial community; yet the evidence for just that is overwhelming, Mr Soros states. He believes the private sector is ill-suited to allocate international credit. Mr Soros has argued before against the view that free markets should be left to correct themselves without government intervention. But this is the first time he has proposed an international loan guarantee institution of this type. Mr Soros hopes Monday's decision by international banks to roll over some of their debts to South Korea marks a turning point.

It is worth while re-iterating a comment made a few weeks ago.......In 1932 Stephen Leacock, a Canadian economist and humorist stated: We have to have - I would not say stable prices; you can only have a world in which the price level moves slowly with a regular and intermittent oscillation. But you can have and must have a fixed exchange. You cannot have a foreign trade based upon monetary speculation; you have got to have something absolutely stable for your dealings with foreign nations, and I tell you, gentlemen, I am convinced that there is nothing that will take the place of some absolutely metallic ( GOLD ) standard, some standard of things, and not of opionions Leacock S 1932. If gold should cease to be gold, Canadian IMM Bull 25 ( 244 ) ; 430-439

What was that connection between Soros and Rothchild?!!!!!!!!
Aye, Haggis

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:49
aurator U>(Olé) ID#257148:
Haggis: That weren't no Pommie, and wrong century. Otherwise you're spot on:

“Get gold. Humanely if possible, but at all hazards get gold.”
King Ferdinand of Spain 1511 to American-bound explorers.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:48
Ted U>(Panda...............................and it's scary) ID#364147:
Don't take much ta please me either---scary---guess I just must be a simpleton ( doooooh ) --my 'life' from 8-9 pm each day ( re-runs ) ....Saw a good biography on Nostradamus---he'd have made a good 'futures' trader..eh...No snow here but was chilly on the deck ( upper 20's and approx. 30 MPH winds ) ---invigorating!!!...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:48
Haggis__A U>(Soros and Rothchild.................) ID#398105:

Thanks for the URL..........

To argue that financial markets in general, and international lending in particular, need to be regulated is likely to outrage the financial community; yet the evidence for just that is overwhelming, Mr Soros states. He believes the private sector is ill-suited to allocate international credit. Mr Soros has argued before against the view that free markets should be left to correct themselves without government intervention. But this is the first time he has proposed an international loan guarantee institution of this type. Mr Soros hopes Monday's decision by international banks to roll over some of their debts to South Korea marks a turning point.

It is worth while re-iterating a comment made a few weeks ago.......

In 1932 Stephen Leacock, a Canadian economist and humorist stated:

We have to have - I would not say stable prices; you can only have a world in which the price level moves

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:46
a.j. U>(HAPPY NEW YEAR-Prospero año NUEVO!!!!) ID#256201:
Tolerant1-hope you get your wish and somebody sends it on a pike or pole
or picket or whatever!
Li'l Garrulous Boy: Hope the new u can stay around for a couple of
months ( :+^}] I like his output!
Sheller, Disney, Aurator, Colleen, Dave in Co- aw shucks-Nappy yutear tu
allll u'all tu! From Arkansas.
Tolerant!-Maybe the ones to fill your wish will fill that of many millions also--
they'll reserve a place fer ol' WJBC and the president ( his spouse )
alongside the one you wish to see held high!!!
Naw-no such good fortune could ever befall our Nation!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:45
aurator U>(Ted Yr e-mail is bouncing off e-whales again.) ID#257148:
Ted
It ain't me Bart
No No it ain't me Bart
I ain't the one your looking for, Bart?

Haggis_A, aye, someone else to mock when the All Blacks are back on the paddock. Watch 'em all get Lomu-ed.

Éß like James Bond, eh?

Mike Sheller Interesting tidbits indeed. You can write well, fella, real well!

007@auralicencedtokiss

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:43
panda U>(TED) ID#30116:
Time fer another one......... Keep on bailin, the new tune for '98... Print ye merry bankers. Yea verily.... :- )

All that printing has got to put a shine on old yeller! ( We can only hope )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:39
panda U>(TED) ID#30116:
I'm having trouble getting in to this site too. We got a nice 'dusting' of snow to make the New Year feel right at home... I live for this on New Years.... A tradition of sorts, hours and hours of the Three Stooges on TV.... :- ) )

It worries me that such simple things can please me.....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:34
Ted U>(Panda.............................................and deck update) ID#364147:
Happy New Year Panda!!....within 33.5 inches of 18 by fourty deck bein all decked----back sore---but can't feel it ( crooked grin thing ) ....Nice ta see the P.M.'s finish strong ( ? ) in '97'...can next year be any worse Havin trouble posting AGAIN....and it ain't ME......BART

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:32
Haggis__A U>(Gusto Oro..............) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Happy New Year to you.

Paddy Hannan was an Irish prospector, who was the first White Man to discover gold mineralisation at Kalgoorlie ( latitude 30/47S, and longitude 121/29E ) in 1893.

Production during the period 1893-1987 was 1268 tonnes of gold, and since the development of the Super Pit in 1987 production is at an annual rate of 520 000 oz per annum, with a mine life in excess of 25 years on current reserves. Very large exploration upside.

Aye, Haggis

PS Gold production is worth AU$ 4 billion per annum to the West Australia economy.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:31
Haggis__A U>(Gusto Oro..............) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Happy New Year to you.

Paddy Hannan was an Irish prospector, who was the first White Man to discover gold mineralisation at Kalgoorlie ( latitude 30/47S, and longitude 121/29E ) in 1893.

Production during the period 1893-1987 was 1268 tonnes of gold, and since the development of the Super Pit in 1987 production is at an annual rate of 520 000 oz per annum, with a mine life in excess of 25 years on current reserves. Very large exploration upside.

Aye, Haggis


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:25
panda U>(Ted) ID#30116:
Stooges and alcohol of one sort or another......

Happy New Year.... give or take some minutes...........

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:21
panda U>(TED) ID#30116:
Ted, it was Mike Kennedy. The one that had the affair with the underage baby sitter. Apparently Mike slammed in to a tree while skiing.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:21
vronsky U>(t) ID#427357:
t

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:15
Ted U>(Doesn't feel any differen't) ID#364147:
burp~~~~~~~

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 23:06
Ted U>(Panda.....and another 'dead Kennedy'....while drinkin Pina Coladas) ID#364147:
Panda: Which one of em bit the dust...My freakin e-mail service ain't workin---duh,wonder why---duh....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:59
Ted U>(1998 in Cape Breton ) ID#364147:
burp.....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:59
Prometheus U>(whoops!) ID#189273:
Sorry, that's not how it looked the first time! Ok, just go to
HTTP://www.ft.com/ and press Search, then type Soros, then press 12/31.
Prometheus the red-faced.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:55
Prometheus U>(@ Haggis et al) ID#189273:
Here is the link to Soros articles on Financial Times. Click on the December 31 article to read it. I don't know how to sent you a hot key, just the address: http://www.ft.com/search97cgi/vtopic. Anyone who would like to post how they do that?




Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:48
Gusto Oro U>(To Hagis A.) ID#377235:
Just curious--who is Paddy Hannon?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:46
Dave in CO U>(@Haggis_A - Soros ) ID#215211:
I think it can be found posted at 08:21 this A.M.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:37
Jed U>(Happy Happy....) ID#25222:
Happy New Year to all from a fellow goldbug in Massachusetts USA!

****JED****


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:36
Mole U>(Great Forum/Happy New Year! ) ID#34883:
Carl Menger published his works in 1871, 1883, and in 1892.

During that time Menger's theoretical economics were seen as an

option, a choice, a possibility.

From modern perspective it can be seen that it was a choice

like humans have a choice to breath air or not.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:35
Haggis__A U>(Soros interview with the Financial Times) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Does anyone have the URL for this interview. Please post.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:31
Haggis__A U>(aurator.................Pommies on Kitco!!!) ID#398105:

aurator, are you sure - Yanks I can put up with, even at a push PSEUDO-South Africans, BUT Pommies. Now that I am a Scot/Aussie, I have a double bias. Remarkably, Kalgoorlie is a Pommie free zone, Old Paddy Hannan would turn in his grave. I believe that it was an Englishman who, during the 18th centuary, one of the darkest periods in the history of gold, coined the phrase - GET GOLD: humanely if you can; but at all hazards get gold . Is this the motto of the current Bank of England? I hope that any Pommies plugging into Kitco don't work for the Bank of England, or MI6!

Thou of independent mind,
With soul resolv'd, with soul resign'd,
Prepar'd Power's proudest frown to brave,
Who wilt not be, nor have a slave,
Virtue alone who dost revere,
Thy own reproach alone dost fear:
Approach this shrine, and worship here.

For an Altar of Independence by Robert Burns: perhaps this should be applicable to Kitco.
Aye, Haggis


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:29
Haggis__A U>(aurator ...............Pommies on Kitco!!!) ID#398105:

aurator, are you sure - Yanks I can put up with, even at a push PSEUDO-South Africans, BUT Pommies. Now that I am a Scot/Aussie, I have a double bias. Remarkably, Kalgoorlie is a Pommie free zone, Old Paddy Hannan would turn in his grave.

I believe that it was an Englishman who, during the 18th centuary, one of the darkest periods in the history of gold, coined the phrase - GET GOLD: humanely if you can; but at all hazards get gold . Is this the motto of the current Bank of England? I hope that any Pommies plugging into Kitco don't work for the Bank of England, or MI6!

Thou of independent mind,

With soul resolv'd, with soul resign'd,

Prepar'd Power's proudest frown to brave,

Who wilt not be, nor have a slave,

Virtue alone who dost revere,

Thy own reproach alone dost fear:

Approach this shrine, and worship here.

For an Altar of Independence by Robert Burns:

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:28
Haggis__A U>(aurator ...............Pommies on Kitco!!!) ID#398105:

aurator, are you sure - Yanks I can put up with, even at a push PSEUDO-South Africans, BUT Pommies. Now that I am a Scot/Aussie, I have a double bias. Remarkably, Kalgoorlie is a Pommie free zone, Old Paddy Hannan would turn in his grave.

I believe that it was an Englishman who, during the 18th centuary, one of the darkest periods in the history of gold, coined the phrase - GET GOLD: humanely if you can; but at all hazards get gold . Is this the motto of the current Bank of England? I hope that any Pommies plugging into Kitco don't work for the Bank of England, or MI6!

Thou of independent mind,

With soul resolv'd, with soul resign'd,

Prepar'd Power's proudest frown to brave,

Who wilt not be, nor have a slave,

Virtue alone who dost revere,

Thy own reproach alone dost fear:

Approach this shrine, and worship here.

For an Altar of Independence by Robert Burns:

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:28
RJ U>(..... Earl .....) ID#411259:

No…………… I'm am not saying 1998 will be like 1997, but rather, things here at Kitco never seem to change. I have peeked in from time to time and still see the same endless acrimony. Yes, the rhetoric has toned down a bit, and the overt hostility has become more covert, but there is still way too much petty bickering hereabouts. This, my Croc reference was directed toward.

PS

Is it true Linda K. is divorced Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:27
Haggis__A U>(aurator ...............Pommies on Kitco!!!) ID#398105:

aurator, are you sure - Yanks I can put up with, even at a push PSEUDO-South Africans, BUT Pommies. Now that I am a Scot/Aussie, I have a double bias. Remarkably, Kalgoorlie is a Pommie free zone, Old Paddy Hannan would turn in his grave.

I believe that it was an Englishman who, during the 18th centuary, one of the darkest periods in the history of gold, coined the phrase - GET GOLD: humanely if you can; but at all hazards get gold . Is this the motto of the current Bank of England? I hope that any Pommies plugging into Kitco don't work for the Bank of England, or MI6!

Thou of independent mind,

With soul resolv'd, with soul resign'd,

Prepar'd Power's proudest frown to brave,

Who wilt not be, nor have a slave,

Virtue alone who dost revere,

Thy own reproach alone dost fear:

Approach this shrine, and worship here.

For an Altar of Independence by Robert Burns:

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:25
Tortfeasor U>(Last Joke of the Year) ID#36965:
You folks have been so brutal on us lawyers today. I have survived this year. Therefore I can take those slings and arrows. However, I have one thing to say in response. Ouch, man that hurts! Here's my final submission for the year:

A woman goes into the local newspaper office to see that the obituary for her recently deceased husband is written. The obit. editor informs her that the fee for the obituary is 50 cents a word. She pauses, reflects
and then says, Well then, let it read Fred Brown died.

Amused at the woman's thrift, the editor tells her that there is a 7 word minimum for all obituaries. Only a little flustered, she thinks things over and in a few seconds says, In that case, let it read, Fred Brown died: 1983 Pickup for sale.

Thanks for the great year on the site all of you. You have made the year a fine one despite the gold pits.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:19
Earl U>(@victuals 'n stuff.) ID#227238:
Vronsky: Sounds like a helluva party with damn good eats but the black tie thing could be a problem. The only black tie I have is one that ain't seen the cleaners in awhile.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:17
RJ U>(..... ? Whither Platinum ? .....) ID#411259:

Many may feel the platinum had indeed withered. I've been looking for a year end sell off that still may occur in the first week of January. 1998 will be kind to all metals, but platinum particularly so. Count yourselves lucky who bought in the $340s, but anywhere under $400 will look very attractive when PL tops $500. Remember, the Russians could raise the price $100 with a couple well timed press releases. I've bought some platinum in the last two weeks, but I am still cautious. Who would have called for $342 platinum back in November? It dropped at least $40 lower than the market said it should. The speculative shorts in Japan had a field day slapping platinum around while the longs watched the Yen fall and banks and brokerages fail. The longs hesitated and the shorts took over. It's been my experience that you can pretty much count on at least one good rally per year, and one great blood bath. I think we've seen both this last month.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:10
Earl U>(@RJ's reruns) ID#227238:
RJ: You be sayin' 98 will be a rerun of 97 ..... Ga'wan.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:07
A.Goose U>(Crocodile Dundee) ID#20137:


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:45
RJ ( ..... The more things stay the same ..... ) ID#411259:

I believe they live in beautiful Bryon Bay. North of Sidney.




Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:05
LGB2__A U>(@ Little Woman ............(wife futures..) sayz.........) ID#316409:
Time to go have too much fun. OK honey. Pop them corks...have a good and safe one all, Sheller, you said a few posts ago..

I have also saeen the need to reform. I promise that in 1998 I will take off the gloves and be ugly as sin, and probably even get thrown off the site.

If you want to master the above. Just wanted to offer my services cheap, I give Ahole seminars weekly for $250 a pop, it's a great deal! I think I'll start a Newsletter! ( Off to the bubbly..hmmm WHAT a bad girl she's being over there... )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:05
Poorboys U>(God@That @Ted @Is@Fast@With@Breaking@News) ID#224149:
Some Thoughts-Many at this great site look to the new year for some insight on the future of Gold prices.They may try Gold Eagle or the great brokers of Chicago and New York but One only has too read between the lines of Kitco to find the truth .I think everybody that loves Gold comes here Even LGBCertainly this is the meeting place for all people that wish at some point in time to protect their hard earned laborious dollars.I feel long term many here will win but not the speculators and conveyors of misinformation .To the Air Signs of this great Monopoly we will succeed .To the Earth signs have a nice holiday.Away to find the wine of time.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 22:01
EB U>(YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!) ID#22956:
HNY...and to the last 'groups to celebrate....

........Hawaii.....No Ka Oi!!!!!! Get it on Big Kahunna!! Yahooooooooooo!!!!! Let the Partyiiiiiing Beeeeeeeeeeeeegin!!!

you dudes and dudettes are cool.....and as I sit and ponder what you all look like ( I have a vivid IMAGINATION ) .....Colleen is still the BEST looking in my mind ( rain gardens and the soft fragrance of the roses pass my olfactories, mmmmmm... ) ......including you Ted ( talk about tieing porkchops ) .......and Aurator is a Bond lookalike ( still not holding a candle to Colleen ) ......Nick@C is probably WAY in the bag.........Mooney is too.......DJ and Panda are busy with their charts ( great charts ) .......StudioR is trying to figure himself out ( love you man ) ..........Donald is sniffing News ( with 6-pak in hand having No Mercy ) ....... Tolerant1...well.....gulp, gulp ( cheers ) .........MikeS ( the great one ) is still the master of the house ( but nothing w/o Pepi ) ..........Old Gold ( keep the faith George ) , he is picking someones bottom.....................Irvine is skating into some little cuty's 'backyard'........Spud is eating spuds...........Cherokee is wildly ( with the peace pipe, 'passa' la pìpe ) contemplating what will happen in ONE-MORE-DAY ( I bow great warrior...thwock! ssm ) ................Vronsky, planning wild abandon...........Strad with elegance.................Bart is taking a long awaited leave-of-absence from the nut-house..........Disney is wishing he could get back to the states for a good hot-dog or something........................crystall ball, well...bend over and say aaah!....... ( ouch ) ..............lgb ( BFD ) ..........Goldbug 23, you are the sh!t ( private joke and HNY down south ) ...............Savage ( one ) is trying to figure out this OJ thing ( the other OJ ) .....tgl ( who the hell are you!? ) ...............Sharefin busy cursing the keyboards ( wish ya luk mate ) ........sas is busy 'holding fort' in HK.........mind is wandering and bubbly starting to tease the 'perceptors'.............oh yeah, Eldo.......well, Eldo is doing what Eldo does ( right Bob Dole? ( SNL Joke ) ) ......it gets too hard to figure it all ( great bunch of people,now rambling ) .........gotta go bring cheer................HNY!!!!!

Life is goooooooooooooooooood...............¡Öh M¥! CHA-CHING$$!!$

AWAY...to the NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

Éßthankful

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:56
LGB2__A U>(@ RJ) ID#316409:
Whither Platinum

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:51
Dave in CO U>(@RJ) ID#215211:
You folks from Down Under correct me, but I think Linda K. married Paul Hogan ( Croc. Dundee ) then he filed bankruptcy soon after. You're right, she's great lookin'.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:45
panda U>(TED) ID#30116:
Another member of your favorite Massachusetts family passes on due to a skiing accident.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:45
RJ U>(..... The more things stay the same .....) ID#411259:

Does anybody remember the original Crocodile Dundee? There was a scene in which he and Linda Koslowski ( and what ever happened to her That was one beautiful woman… ) arrived at Mick's New York Hotel room. He looked at the television and said, TV aye, I saw this once years ago ( Supply your own endearing Aussie accent ) He turned on the TV as the credits for I Love Lucy rolled across the screen and Mick said, Yep……. That's what I saw. - and he tuned the TV off. Draw any conclusions you like. Anyway……………….. Happy 1998 to all……………

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:30
SDRer__A U>(For the the Kitco posters--who seek the Eldorado of honest money,) ID#288155:

He met a pilgrim shadow,
“Shadow”, said he,
“Where can it be--this land of Eldorado?”
“Over the mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,”
The shade replied,
“If you seek for Eldorado!”

Every journey has an end. May we reach our destination in 1998! Happy New Year! And many thanks for sharing time and talent...

Off to act as Usher ( to the New Year! )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:18
James U>(ROR) ID#252150:
Saw Liar Liarlast night with our great Canadian thespian Jim Carey.

No doubt about it. If you people could'nt lie you would be out of business. Have a great 98.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:11
Myrmidon U>(*** Sure Predictions ***) ID#345268:
We will all be here a year from now debating on gold - if we survive.

Farfel and LGB2 will have mellowed down a bit.

Haggis will continue to defend Scotland.

Poetry and jokes will occupy more bandwidth.

.. and I will never occupy prime time in this site.

Happy New Year and thank you all.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 21:11
ZEE U>('NYSE rings out record year, traders eat cake' -Reuters) ID#301188:
- upon reading the above press release the below question ocurred to me;
- are we just a 60's band of freedom fighters, fighting the secret war against 'the establishment' from our cyber base in kitcoland?
- just a thought! But, IMHO, I suggest that there could be a connection with age and the regular kitco members.
-?
-had a quiet New Years nite with my girlfriend, a bottle of champers and a Steinlager.
-Cheers guys!.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:59
Poorboys U>(We@all@Have@Ideas@And@Thoughts) ID#224149:
Vronsky-I thought my kindness would find some humour in that WRAPPED UP GOLD WORLD you live in.Obviously not! I still wish the best for the coming year.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:58
LGB2__A U>(@ All) ID#315256:
peace and prosperity..... in 1998 and beyond, well..except in Y2K ;- )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:52
Goldbug23 U>(ROR) ID#432148:
Thank you for a great laugh after reading your lawyer defense. Of course there are some great lawyers and lawyers are needed in our society. But the lawyer jokes have been well deserved IMHO ;- ) Right on TED! Tort, you are one of the exceptions and we all love you ( and your jokes ) .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:45
vronsky U>(POORBOY’S DREAM) ID#426220:

@Poorboys ( Happy@Happy@HAPPY@HAPPY@HAPPY@HAPPY@HAPPY@New@Year )

In keeping with Poorboy’s New Year’s levity, allow me to broadcast Poorboy’s planned visit to San Francisco to undergo an “ANAL-IRRIGATION PROCEDURE” to clear his mind. Well..., to each his own.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:43
ZEE U>() ID#30238:


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:37
Mike Sheller U>(Rattle them bones) ID#347447:
POORBOYS: What? You can't tell the future with clouds? AURATOR: Gold remained essentially unchanged ( he said, sounding like a CNBC report ) in 1588 according to my handy Chart entitled Gold Prices in England 1343-1980. Gold did, however, leap 100% from about 1545 to 1560 due to the influx of new world gold. This bull was capped by the Great Recoinage Act of 1560. An interesting case of where a significant INCREASE in the supply of gold resulted in a broad increase in prices. Salty tidbit, no?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:36
STUDIO.R U>(@ALL.... My Kitco Balance of Trade?....Sell your Studio.R bucks, now!) ID#93232:
For each obscure, often irrelevant, thought that I have exported to Kitco...I have, in turn, imported vast holdings of the most gleaming, valuable bits of knowledge and wealth ever imagined. All I can say to you, my creditors...Hell, I'm good for it! Where do I sign?
And in my most humble debtor posture, I add...Rest assured this deal will work! A Wonderful New and Special Year to Each of You...Thanks for making room for me. rdj

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:35
Donald__A U>(Brazil devalues currency total of 7.41% for the year) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971231/brazil_s_real_closes_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:28
Donald__A U>(Korean bankers light their cigars with Canadian $100 bills at New Years party) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/12/31/financial_news/canadakor_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:25
Donald__A U>(American journalist jailed in So. Korea for saying bad things about a bank) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971231/korea_usa_journalist_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:23
Poorboys U>(Happy@Happy@New@Year) ID#224149:
As the New Year Approaches some new predications: ( 1 ) Vronsky and Gold Eagle predict chicken prices to approach $3000.00. ( 2 ) Ted Moves to Maine and never sees mail again and finds no internet connections. ( 3 ) Cherokee goes to English school after his parents decide clouds can't tell the future. ( 4 ) Lgb keeps apologising all year for his slanderous remark's but feels great that everybody here is a numbskull. ( 5 ) Big Bad Wolf hides between many faces waiting for the ha ha ha ha ha I told you so.Happy trails and Happy New Year to Everybody At Kitco ...I Love You All.P.S. Away for another bottle of bubbly.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:23
ROR U>(TEd) ID#35767:
I love Lawyers they protect the rights of the oppressed. The anti-Lawyer talk is promoted by big business as Lawyers are the only ones who can give the little guy a chance against the big guy. Especially since contingency fees allow it so the little guy DOESNT HAVE TO PAY and can extract his rightful compensation from the big guy. There is no greater defense of democracy and freedom in all respects than the legal profession. Of course there are bums just like on WAll St and In MBA school ( who like firing people ) except Lawyers help the firee.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:20
POLARBEAR U>(how about HAWAII?) ID#183109:
VRONKSY/ALL: re: GOLD-EAGLE plans to organize the “Fête 500

How about some fun in the sun? And would you consider adding some sushi, sashimi, and shabu shabu to the menu? And don't forget the dark beer. Domo.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:18
Donald__A U>(China claims internet restrictions will not apply to Hong Kong) ID#26793:
http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971231/wired/stories/hongkong_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:18
aurator U>(Half a minute, I thought you said the first Millenium was in 1588? I Did. Oh.) ID#257148:


CJSI_A:
G'day Pommie! Thank you for leetle snippet from 18th century. England indeed has a long history of gold, I posted, in passing last night about Norseman's Danegold and know very little about it. I recall stories of Roman treasures ( Mildenhall? ) being quite recently discovered.

I was wondering though whether your source mentioned also what hapenned to gold in London during the panic of thefirst millenium that is, I say quite contentiously, during the rumour of the attack of the great fleet of the Spanish Armada in 1588, the first Biblical Millenium?




Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:15
hipshot U>(@CJSI) ID#401349:
The Abbey.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:10
Ted U>(I HATE lawyers) ID#364147:
And luv ta see em scramble~~~~later duuuudes ( thankx Earl ) ...idiotic grin thin...and slightly LOP-sided ta boot...away fer 'rub'.....out..

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:09
Donald__A U>(@LGB) ID#26793:
Saw your earlier NYR. Happy New Year to you.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:08
Ted U>(Donald...........................and sunrise report from the FAR East.....) ID#364147:
You got it buddy---am operating on two hours sleep but am turbo-charged and glad I didn't go to the casino and stayed home for our last New Year's Eve in Cape Breton----Happy New Year!!! bbl

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:05
CJS1__A U>(hipshot: Westminster?) ID#329157:
Westminster Abbey, the Houses of Parliament at Westminster, or the College?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:04
Donald__A U>(@Ted) ID#26793:
Counting on you for the first sunrise report for Kitco North Americans tomorrow. Happy New Year!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:02
Donald__A U>(@Aurator) ID#26793:
And I have been all steamed up ever since...but Happy New Year anyway.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:02
Mike Sheller U>(New Year Wishes to all) ID#347447:
And I do mean ALL. I am personally grateful and delighted to have discovered Kitco and the amazing cast of characters it plays host to. If for no other reason, 1997 was, for me, a magical year. There is no other place to my mind where one can come and, under the pretext of discussing ( of all things ) gold and silver investing, meet and engage such informed, interesting, intelligent, and fun people. Every one here is special, and everyone, past and present through these cyber gates, has some kind of meaning to each of us, in some personal way. I am especially grateful for the opportunity to have made some good friends, and even to have entered into exciting and imaginative projects with some of them. The ultimate thanks go to Bart and his organization for keeping this beacon glowing. Thanks Bart. I have also saeen the need to reform. I promise that in 1998 I will take off the gloves and be ugly as sin, and probably even get thrown off the site. But in the meantime, I wish ALL here a heartfelt Happy New Year, and all the rest that goes with it!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 20:01
Ted U>(Time for a back rub(mine)) ID#364147:
Got the Judge and 'the lawyer on the fukin run----yeeeeeees-what a what ta leave CB...Happy New year Studio R and Aurator- got the 'situation well in hand ---will send ya the 'sordid' e-mails~~~~ away to be rubbed out! bbl

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:59
CJS1__A U>(hipshot: gold 500 fest) ID#329157:
Glad you like the idea. I suppose coordinating the diaries of the

principal posters here, many of whom seem to be in the US, Australia

South Africa and diverse other places, could be an interesting

challenge. One might consider breaking the fest up by country, so that

those interested in attending would not have to travel too far.

But then, I reflect on the possibility that the regulars in far flung places might actually be keen on meeting one another [?!], so a single venue wouldn't be such a silly idea. Perhaps vronsky should put feelers out / organise a questionnaire amongst the potential participants.

Apart from the fact that a fest in London would give poor ( unless gold

hits $10000 ) me a chance to attend, Britain has a long history of gold

connected with all other countries, going back to the Roman currency and

before, and there ought to be an appropriate venue.

News of the incident- the attempted invasion [four French ships invaded the Welsh coast on 22nd February 1797] spread countrywide, causing a

loss of confidence in paper currency and a rush for gold... William Pitt the Younger slapped an Order of the Privy Council on the Bank instructing it no longer to pay its notes in gold... the rush for gold by the public immediately drove the guinea... out of circulation; but replacements were needed if trade and commerce were not to come to a grinding halt. The Bank quickly put 1 and 2 pound notes into circulation...

Digging deep into her vaults the Bank also produced foreign silver coins- they were initially mainly Spanish 8 Reales pieces... These coins were then countermarked with the head of the monarch, George III, and issued. The Spanish Dollars bore the head of Charles IV of Spain on whose neck the authenticating stamp was applied. It inspired one wag to write:

The Bank to make their Dollars pass

Stamp'd the head of a fool on the neck of an ass.

- The Bank of England


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:51
Earl U>() ID#227238:
Mike Sheller ( 17:32 ) : Amigo, I applaud you. On the surface, your efforts might be construed as casting Casting pearls ..., they, nonetheless, afford each of us the opportunity to measure each by his words.

Values and substance will out in the end. I stand in awe of your restraint and, again, applaud you.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:49
panda U>(OK, one more chart...) ID#30116:
Dow daily... Happy New Years all.....................

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:46
Divedoc U>(Happy New Year) ID#268468:
Wishing all in the Kitco discussion group a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:44
aurator U>(looking backward to see forward - I sound like cherokee - G'day sport!---) ID#257148:

Patti_A I have just had the opportunity to review some of your too infrequent posts: Oak Island, Surviving bitter snow storms, and self sufficiency, not to forget the difference between men and bonds..I hope you give the group the benefit of your experience again soon.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:43
Speed U>(Happy New Year) ID#286199:
Here's a fun link while you wait for the markets to open...

http://www.okidoki.nl/calvin_and_hobbes/comics/cstill9.htm

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:37
panda U>(Year end charts) ID#30116:
Dow weekly.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:36
panda U>(Year end charts) ID#30116:
CRB / XAU / ratio ( XAU/CRB )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:34
panda U>(Year end charts) ID#30116:
XAU

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:33
panda U>(Year end charts) ID#30116:
Silver

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:32
panda U>(Year end charts) ID#30116:
Gold.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:30
hipshot U>(@CJSI) ID#401349:
London? Super suggestion! The bursar at Westminster is a colleague of mine. He hosted a wonderful dinner for a group of us odd fellows and peculiar ladies just a couple of years back. What a setting to celebrate the re-ascendency of the noble metal.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:25
aurator U>(---Merci----) ID#257148:
Patti_A thank you, was causing me sleepless nights.

DJ, I'm guessing the Virginia Techs Hokies aren't a cricket team?
Donald never did thank you for James Watt.
Ted got those erisian apples I chucked at yer?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:16
patti__A U>(@Gobble-gobble) ID#224301:
Aurator: A young turkey is called a poult

Happy New Year to all you Kitcoers out there!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:11
CJS1__A U>(Gold) ID#329157:
A happy and prosperous new year from the United Kingdom

Another year is here!

Soros has spoken!

Suggest London for vronsky's gold 500 fest

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:11
DJ U>(Turkey?) ID#215208:
aurator - Is it a hokie, as in Virginia Techs Hokies?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:08
James U>(A HAPPY & PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR TO ALL!) ID#252150:
Ted re: your real estate transaction. Sounds normal to me. Why not give the business to a buddy or bro-in-law? 4 p.m. on the west coast & almost time for a beer.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:08
aurator U>(Pate de fois gras at Vronsky's banquet? Never.) ID#255284:
A Goose why thank you kind sir, may you always lay golden eggs and may you never be cooked!

aurator

can anyone tell me what a baby turkey is called? ( Apart from Next Year's Thanksgiving dinner )


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:06
DJ U>(Cut it out!) ID#215208:
LGB-pros and LGB-cons. Stop it you all. Bury the hatchet! Don't try to get the last word. No more discussion. A new year approacheth. Let's try to pull together and put some jingle in our jeans in 1998. Focus.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:04
farfel U>(@DAVE in CO...(Hey...is Dave there?) re: COURTNEY SMITH....) ID#28585:
...She's just a transexual transvestite from Transylvania.
( Sing it, baby! )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 19:01
Silver Bull U>(LGB) ID#287312:

I, for one, am ready to believe your resolution to be a credit to this forum. You have some real good input but the garbage does have to stop. Nobody is perfect and nobody knows for sure what the markets are going to do at any given time.

There are some who are far to hard on those who venture out with their best reasons or hopes for a market move. RJ will hardly post now ( and some others ) ; his loss to the forum is felt by the serious market watchers.

Russia lopped three 0's off their currency today. 1,000 rubles is now 1. In announcing the change a Russian official stated: As of today inflation is under control.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:58
Dave in CO U>(@farfel - Courtney Smith) ID#215211:
Could be wrong but I remember the Courtney as a male or at least masculine looking. : ) That doesn't affect the quality of your poetry though. It's great!

I think your multiple posts could be due to hitting the back button in the same window after a posting. Don't know if anyone else let you know. Thanks.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:58
DEJ U>(LGB) ID#270236:
You must have a hard time tolerating yourself, then.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:55
James U>(6 pack re: Canadian banks) ID#252150:
All the brilliant CEO's have been earning their obscene multi million$

salaries by allowing their underlings to make bad loans all around the world. They are even back in Mexico in a big way. History will repeat. Many of these loans will blow up in their faces, leaving taxpayers to bail them out. They won't worry though. They'll just bail out with their golden parachutes.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:55
DEJ U>(LGB and Soros.) ID#270236:
He said global deflation. That means the industrialized countries too.
That's why he wants a world central bank and a one world currency. If the U.S. and its currency wasn't at risk, he wouldn't be recommending
a substitute for the Fed and the dollar.

The Fed can only expand the money supply more rapidly if foreign lenders
are willing to absorb the increased supply of dollars from the resulting
expansion of the current account deficit. If foreign lenders loose con-
fidence in the dollar, they could refuse to accept them. At that point
the U.S. would have to contract the supply of dollars in order to eliminate the current account deficit. That's what happens in a crunch
to countries with $160 billion current account deficits and trillion $ net external debts: their monetary policies are determined by their creditors.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:52
Myrmidon U>(@ FARFEL) ID#345268:
Great poetry. I enjoy your posts. Happy new year to all - and PROSPEROUS!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:50
panda U>(Regarding Soros part II) ID#30116:
No, I take the billion-airhead Soros comment back. I remember reading something about Soros awhile back. I believe he said that markets we based on perceptions. Those perceptions were usually false ( lies ) . Therefore… do the opposite of what I say.

Put in to this context, draw your own conclusions…


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:49
hipshot U>(@LGB) ID#401349:
Okay, partner, see you at Fete 500. What a great idea? The only RF engineer I have working for me is a bit of a character as well. With a glass of lubricant he's a real character. Perhaps we can all celebrate the 500 mark at the Atlanta Conference in April. Ya just never know!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:49
vronsky U>(CHICKEN-FRIED STEAK) ID#426220:
STUDIO.R ( @vronsky @ le Beaux Arts..... ) : Partner, I did not include Chicken-fried steak in the Fete 500 menu, because I have it religiously for breakfest at least three times per week... and with mashed potatoes and drowning in white gravy over all. And if I DON'T have it that often, I get as cranky and ornrie as some Kitco posters. Plus, I cotton to grits.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:49
aurophile U>(kitco) ID#177109:
Happy New Year all! May Kitco regain its golden luster in 1998!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:46
farfel U>(BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND...THE LATEST FROM GEORE SOROS....) ID#28585:
( SOROS unveils new book entitled, Buy My Bonds, You Suckers! ) ID#28585:

I once knew a fella named Soros
An economics intellectual with a disposition quite morose
He spoke of deflation
And got great elation
Selling bonds to the lemmings who bought his Bull-Compost.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:45
LGB U>(Yahoo bus. down?......Over and out) ID#269409:
Is it just me, or is the site down? All this personal stuff is happening because the markets are closed I guess. Nothin exciting going on.

I apologize to the site for wasted bandwidth, I am indeed the worst offender the past 2 or 3 days, no doubt about it. Plans in the works to improve. None of us are born perfect....tomorrow is another day ( and year ) ..

Prosperous New Year to you all, GoldBugs included. Your gain is my gain....

Will return in Peace....


LGB

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:44
A.Goose U>() ID#20137:
Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:38
aurator ( Felicitations ) ID#257148:

Well as far as I am concerned, New Years starts as soon as the first kitcoite reports it. So Happy New Year aurator and everyone else on kitco.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:44
panda U>(Regarding Soros...) ID#30116:
Look. George Soros is just another F***** billion-airhead who wants to shut the money door behind him. Ever notice how these types make their fortune and then go on record as saying that we 'need' a law to ... prevent this speculation or that speculation. Usually the very type of speculation that they engaged in to make their fortune, no less.

Do the names Kennedy, Rockefeller, Morgan, etc. ring a bell? Oh, I forgot, Rum, booze, finance.... Please Mr. Congressman/Senator, save capitalism from itself ( after I've screwed the poor buggers... )


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:42
Mr. Mick U>(kiwi - CNBC says Soros is into bonds right now.........) ID#345321:
probably already has his gold, silver, etc. I wonder if Soros has seen the yield curves lately.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:42
farfel U>(FLASH: COURTNEY SMITH (Orbix Mgmt?) ANNOUNCES HUGE GOLD DECLINE!!!) ID#28585:
On the New Years Eve of '98
She didn't have a date
Miserable is the word to describe her.

Those damn goldbugs are too gleeful
So I'm gonna make 'em weepful
Like me sitting home without a date.

I think Gold is all through
It ain't worth a poo
I defintely don't think it's so great

I'll trash it forever
Or at least 'till whenever
I Get me a New Year's Eve date!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:39
LGB U>(@ Hipshot) ID#269409:
Actually I was the eldest, it was all the runts who tormented ME not the other way around! I had to raise the buggers for the most part, no Dad, absentee Mom, background of poverty, worked 60 hours a wek or so while doing all my collegiate stuy at night for years. Maybe it made me cranky and unable to suffers fools gladly who are clueless as to how fortunate we all are, myself included.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:37
Ted U>(Lurching.......er lurking) ID#364147:
Another problem-my e-mail function is down---oh well,life ain't perfect ..eh go team gold~~~~~~~

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:37
STUDIO.R U>(@vronsky @ le Beaux Arts.....) ID#93232:
I regretfully can not translate French into Okie.....sir, may I ask...is chicken-fried steak anywhere on the menu..garsone? In either case, I'll be there. Happy New Year! Mi Amigo, Vronsky!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:35
panda U>(Flash) ID#30116:
Flash -- If gold dives as much as the analyst you quote says, then I shall dump all precious metals investments and buy drug stocks. Specifically the stocks of those companies who manufacture prozac and such classes of drugs.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:31
cmh U>(Last post of 4635) ID#333232:
Who said/sung: There aint no devil, it's just God when he's drunk...

Though it might have appeared as the Year of the lemming/sheep I found 1997 was the ( Chinese ) year of the ox. No bull.

1998 will be the 15th year of the 78th cycle = 4635 - now lets see, that's
666+666+666+666+666+666+639 ( hmmmm )

Is it Anti or Ante christ? ( can't be auntie )

New years resolution - 2400dpi

Happy New Year Bart!

cmh signing of until the gold bottom is in!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:31
hipshot U>(@LGB) ID#401349:
Gee! Do you have a runt complex, or what?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:30
LGB U>(@ Flash......Soros/deflation) ID#269409:
But did Soros say deflation in a general worldwide sense, or in reference to the U.S., North American, and European community economies? Is he not investing in Silver ventures and such? And even rumors of Gold accumulation? And won't our FED and AG continue their money supply growth to stave off worldwide recession, thus leading us to INFLATION?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:26
panda U>(Flash) ID#30116:
If gold dives that much, we will not be alone in the camp of misery. Bonds or no bonds. Who will pay the interest?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:26
LGB U>(@ Cueball....I apologoze to the forum...too much personal stuff...no more after today...) ID#269409:
Seems like I responded to your hostile post at me, not the other way round..but what do I know. I'm tired of the battles as well, but in a few hours......besides, call all the names you want, you'll have to stand in line though...now, back to Gold & Silver.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:25
vronsky U>(Fête 500) ID#426220:

In anticipation of $500 Gold in 1998, GOLD-EAGLE plans to organize the “Fête 500” to celebrate the momentous occasion. Therefore, we had one of the best French Chefes in southern France DESIGN OUR FEAST, SENIOR Daniel. He suggests the following for our approval:

***********************************

Gambas Flambes au Pastis
Corton Charlemagne Grand Cru 1985
-
Feuillete de Beluga sur mousse de homard
-
Poelee de foie gras sauce aigre-douce avec pommes rissolees dans
son jus Hermitage Blanc ( Guigal ) 1990
-
Langouste aux Saint Jacques sauce safranee au fenouil anise
Pavillon Blanc du Chateau Margaux 1983
-
Soupe aux truffes sous sa coiffe
Pavillon Rouge du Chateau Margaux 1983

- Trou Normand -

Omelette aux truffes
Chateau Margaux 1983
-
Fromage affines
Cote Rotie Premier Cru Mouline ( Guigal ) 1983
-
Surprises et mises en bouche
-
Desserts
Champagne Cuvee Grand Siecle Laurent Perrier
-
Cafe et chocolatises
-
Pousse-cafe
Davidoff N*1

************************88888888

After taking it under careful advisement, my only alternative to the Grand Daniel’s superb suggestions would be:

1. Instead of Champagne Cuvee Grand Siecle Laurent Perrier,
Don Perignon - 1988

2. Instead of Pousse-cafe Davidoff N*1, I would suggest for your
approval Coñac Cardinal Mendoza ( de España )

3. For cigar aficionados, we suggest Monte Cristo or H. Uppman
( both from Havana, naturelmon )

Fête 500 Location: To be determined.

Dress Code: Black Tie ( obligatory )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:22
LGB U>(@ Sheller......a final word of clarification) ID#269409:
Since you now seem to suddenly prize scientific and linguistic accuracy, let me for the record, add the entire precise post of yesterday that you have so eloquently attacked, to demonstrate why your points are NOT well taken;

I said;

@ Good Ole Boy ) ID#269409:
Re your 18:14. Apparently you havn't been reading this site long. The point of a WACO discussion, is that in order to be a
member in good standing of Kitco, you must;

a ) Believe Govt. conspiracy's are at the root of all disastors including Flight 800, JFK, Y2K, and El Nino

b ) Mistrust your Govt. at all times, and stop believing in such quaint ideas as democracy, or that the Govt. is US.

c ) Develop a hatred of your country, even if you formerly loved, fought for, and believed in the principles upon which it was
founded ( cause after all, nefarious politicians have changed all those principles and taken us off the Gold standard )

d ) Resolve to wish for, hope for, and cheer for the complete annahilaztion of civilization as we know it so that Gold will be
the only thing human beings believe in.***

Now Sheller, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the above post was written as satirical commentary, and not directed at any specific individual. As to any mis-interpretation on your part that I feel that someone who fought for this country has no right to criticize it, I would say that just about the OPPOSITE view is what I hold.

The men who fought for this country and handed us our freedoms on a Silver platter are the ONLY ones who have a right to make destructive statements about loyalty to same. Anyone who has been reading my posts would have trouble coming to any other conclusion. If I was too cavalier in invoking their sacrifices in a satirical comment, for THAT I apologize to them, ( but certainly not to you )

As to being an SOB vs. gentlemanly on this forum, let's just look at SPECIFIC adjectives and descriptions of me from your last 2 posts that were directed my way. You refer to me as;

Boorish
Uniformaly disagreeable
Bombast
Egotistical
Ego consoling
Don't know what I'm talking about
Unfair
Cavalier
Weak intellect
Neurotic propensity

And to top this, I get accused of misusing the men who have defended the country and took up arms. Perhaps the only group in our past who I truly respect and believe have a right to say ANYthing of truly negative intent in reference to the U.S.

I guess I'm just a little tired of the hypocritical double standard on this forum, and I do call em as I see's em. I admit to being an egotistical blowhard. What strikes me with incredulity, is the amazing phoniness with which others take the supposed high ground when they are worse offenders, or at best SILENT toward worse offenders. AT least I'll be HONEST about my negative traits.

A need for Reformation is not the province of only my own posts. I'm getting a little sick of the self righteous pontifications of folks who are so incredibly quick to pull out the spec. in my eye, and see not the log in their own.

As I've said here about a billion times, folks like Puetz, Spud, Intolerant, Kiwi, Disney, et al, could say just about any viscious thing on this site and we'd hear nary a word from the likes of you. Therefore, I find your sudden concern for veterans and their legacy, incredibly insincere and shallow.

YOU sir are the one doing them and I a dis-service, by your completely dishonest misinterpretations and spin, of what I say, why I say it, how I say it, and your complete silence towards other offenders in your higher moral ground scrutiny. Puuuuhleassse. Let's at least show some intellectual honesty. I come under attack here for being disliked in my opnions and my presentation of same, not for being the worst offende of propriety.

When I see your moral scrutiny equally directed at GoldBugs, then and ONLY then will I give your moralizing, some credibility as being sincere.

Wishing for a New Year of a kinder gentler sort, both ways, ..LGB

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:22
Cueball U>(lgb) ID#344210:
Does that mean I should call you a name.

You keep making promises of civility, and not adhering leaves you almost no credibility. I'm not here for the arguement, nor am I here to scroll past your constant tripe and insults. Goodbye.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 18:05
Flash U>(Conduct Guidelines for the Kitco Discussion Groups) ID#301318:

THINGS TO AVOID:

Don't post any derogatory remarks regarding any group’s race,
religion, or ethnic background.
Don't use profanities or foul language.
Don't make any insulting remarks or statements that provoke other
participants.
Don't post any unrelated comments that are likely to arouse a strong
emotional response.
Don't advertise. If you have something to sell use our Classified
Ads section. It's free.
Don't partiicipate as an investor if your interest is really in
promoting stocks. Identify yourself and use the Classified Ads
instead.

What to do when somebody breaks the DON’T rules

Absolutely ignore the remarks. No response is the best response. If the
abuse continues notify the system administrator and they will handle it.

If anyone indicates that they felt offended by comments you may have
made, grant an immediate automatic apology. The issue will die right
there if you don’t attempt to have them justify their feelings.



General Discussion Group Guidelines

When you join the group, monitor the messages for a few days to get a
feel for what common questions are asked, and what topics are deemed
off-limits. This is commonly referred to as lurking. When you feel
comfortable with the group, then start posting.

Follow any and all guidelines that the administrator has posted; they
establish the local netiquette standards for her/his list.

Keep in mind that some discussion groups or Usenet groups have members
from many countries. Don't assume that they will understand a
reference to TV, movies, pop culture, or current events in your country.
If you must use the reference, please explain it. Don't assume that they

understand geographical references that are local or national.

Don't join a group just to post inflammatory messages - this upsets most
system administrators and you could lose access to the net ( mail
bombing ) .

Keep your questions and comments relevant to the focus of the discussion
group.

If another person posts a comment or question that is off the subject,
do NOT reply to the group and keep the off- subject conversation going
publicly.

When someone posts an off-subject note, and someone else criticizes that
posting, you should NOT submit a gratuitous note saying well, I
liked it and lots of people probably did as well and you guys ought to
lighten up and not tell us to stick to the subject.

When quoting another person, edit out whatever isn't directly applicable
to your reply. Take the time to edit any quotations down to the minimum
necessary to provide context for your reply. Nobody likes reading a long
message in quotes for the third or fourth time, only to be followed by a

one line response: Yeah, me too.

Use discretion when copying a long mail message to the group. It's
preferable to reference a site by copying its http://… address.

Resist the temptation to flame others in the group. Remember that
these discussions are public and meant for constructive exchanges.
Treat
the others on the group as you would want them to treat you.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:52
Flash U>(Batten down the hatches mate!) ID#301318:
CNBC:
interveiw with Courtney Smith of Orbix Management.

Gold will DECLINE US$50-$100 this year.

Very bearish on gold stock for the next several years!

Soros says deflation! Buy BONDS!

Hey, I am just the messanger don't shoot!!!


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:43
LGB U>(@ Sheller) ID#269409:
Well it's certainly true that I was speaking to the implications of your previous treatise, not doing a word for word dissection. As to mistating others, and doing a careful reading of what they say, if you're concerned about that then you would never have implied that I presume to speak for men who have fought and died for this country.

I invoke their memory as only a part of the legacy you and I and others have been handed as a gift. I made that point clear in it's context. You twisted it to suit your ends.

Peace, in the New Year, LGbeeeeeeeee


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:41
SDRer__A U>(For Aurator, who shines with bright thought...) ID#287277:

To thee, fair freedom! I retire
From flattery, cards, and dice, and din;

I fly from pomp, I fly from plate!
I fly from falsehood’s specious grin!
Freedom I love, and form I hate,
And choose my lodgings at an inn.

Shenstone, “Written at an Inn at Henley”

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:40
STUDIO.R U>(@Cape Bre...Ted.....take three deep breaths (hits) and put on......) ID#93232:
VAN DE-MAN MORRISON....the Exile album...go get it if you don't have it...great cut about crooks in da' business. Anyway I've boxed and wrapped 1997 and am forwarding it to HELL...Next year?...it'll be the best ever. Happy New Years!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:38
aurator U>(Felicitations) ID#257148:
Well It's 1998 in my slippers. It's a beautiful looking year, why don't y'all come and join me real soon? ;-}

Certainly is a lot of bonhomie on the line tonite/today

Gee SDR_er well there were so many wonderful thoughts and bon mots, they've all been copied into my Gold Epigrams file, now running to 94 pages of gems from kitco.

Ted G'day, darned Judge problems huh? I hope the beak realises that he's buying a very special property, it's been viewed on the net all over the woirld, I hope the deal is closed without more problems.

ALL
I found kitco on my first day on the net. Like most here, I express my gratitude to those who have posted and taught me so much by attempting to post what little I know of my precioussssss.

A heartfelt thank you to all who have generously given of your knowledge and expertise over the past 12 months, and to Bart for the group therapy.

A round of applause, please for the sages@pagesdotkitco

Properity and Good Health to you all!

aurator

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:32
Mike Sheller U>(LGB) ID#347447:
LGB: A quote from your response to me:
Certainly I take strong issue with your theory that one needs to have faced the horrors of the battlefield in wartime, in order to be a patriot. Or that one can't appreciate what
this country's constitution is all about, can't read or understand history, can't appreciate their heritage, their father and grandfathers counsel, or the sacrifices made by others, without having personally taken up arms.

I never said anything of the sort. To imply that I did discloses on your part either a weak intellect or a neurotic propensity for calumny and slander. The rest of your words were certainly those I could hardly disagree with. I just wish to set the record straight in this matter that I did not in any way impugn the patriotism of anybody, and certainly not those who were fortunate enough not to have served in the ugliness of war. All I said was that you were being cavalier with the right to dissent of those who DID pay such dues ( as your words were fought for their country ) . I feel I owed bringing this to your attention. I owed it to those very people. They are the last people you should include in your invective on this matter. They have earned THAT right to dissent, and their dignity, if nothing else.You seem to have a blind spot with things I say, and never quite pay attention or get it right when you seek to throw my words back at me. For one who professes such reverence for the scientific method, your observations are somewhat sloppy. Perhaps you would be an even better scientist and commentator if you were more open and objective regarding what people are saying , seeing as you say you come to this forum to learn things you could not otherwise know.. Perhaps the cold war would have ended even sooner had this been the case. Who knows? An intelligent mind is a terrible thing to sacrifice at the altar of boorish subjectivity. I remember a promise of sorts on a few occasions this year concerning your imminent reformation. I will reserve judgement on that. Besides, I have no interest in changing you, one way or the other. I suspect you are a perfect LGB just as you are. Otherwise, I truly wish you and your dear family, and all who are precious to you, a wonderful, healthy, joyous New Year. And I am sure that together, we wish the same for this glorious success in man's history, this magnificent concept, we call America.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:28
LGB U>(@ Ted) ID#269409:
Well, judges are lawyers after all Ted! You know, St. Peter was really upseat because Satan was using all these nefarious cheating methods to lure people into hell, so he says to Satan, I'm gonna take you to court and file suit if you don't quit doing this...

to which Satan retorted Yea sure, like where are YOU going to find a lawyer!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:20
kiwi U>(World Briefs...all is well.) ID#194311:
S. Korea Staves Off Default
South Korea is limping into the last day of 1997 having
staved off a debt catastrophe, thanks to fresh funds from the
International Monetary Fund and support from international
bankers. But while the support has taken the noose of a
potential debt default from Korea's financial neck, some
analysts say it may be only a stay of execution. The IMF,
accelerating its schedule of payments to South Korea under an
economic assistance program, handed over an additional $2
billion yesterday to help ease a credit crunch. Commercial and
investment banks also pledged to roll over billions of dollars
of short-term debt, giving Korean banks an extra month to pay.

Thai Economy: Worse Yet to Come
Thai Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai ended the year with a
somber warning today that the worst was yet to come in the
nation's economic crisis, which he said would last through most
of 1998. After a briefing from the central bank, Chuan says he
expects the turmoil to reach its gravest point in the third
quarter of the year, causing further contraction and
unemployment in the once-robust economy. ``Almost all economic
forecasts show the current economic problems will remain serious
throughout the first half ( of 1998 ) ,'' Chuan told a year-end
news conference.

Soros: System is Breaking Down
Financier George Soros said today the international
financial system is suffering a systemic breakdown thanks to the
crisis in south-east Asia. Writing in the Financial Times
newspaper, the multi-billionaire behind Soros Fund Management
says the financial community should grab the opportunity to set
up a new global authority to guarantee international loans for a
fee. ``What started out as a minor imbalance ( in Asia ) has
become a much bigger one that threatens to engulf not only
international credit but also international trade,'' he wrote in
the paper. ``We are on the verge of worldwide deflation.''

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:19
LGB U>(@ Realistic......Silver...Soros) ID#269409:
Excellent analysis once again, these developments are healthy for Silver in the long run no? Especially if the Silver shorts get spanked on Monday.

Now re Kiwi's post, let's also not forget that Soros offered a Silver IPO Apex not long ago and has himself a vested interest in climbing prices!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:15
Ted U>(DJ and having my first drink and then first JOINT) ID#364147:
Upset me---NAAAH....I go with 'the flow' and might have exploded prematurally as just got an e-mail ( from my ( ? ) realtor and for some strange reason the judge now is startin ta sound a little more reasonable and maybe he'll even HONOR HIS and OUR ORIGINAL agreement cause if he don't I'll make a POINT of NOT selling the house to him...Have done 'power trips' on people alot more important than some obscure New Orleans judge...I ain't impressed by you or your Profession my bud the judge---speakin of PARASITES...Scramble paper-shuffler--you low dog-you!!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:09
kiwi U>(Now is this getting serious yet?) ID#194311:
YEAREND - Japan's Year of the Secrets ends on gloomy note


TOKYO, Dec 31 ( Reuters ) - It was the year when the secrets
came out, spreading an ugly stain across Japan's once proud
business reputation.
And as 1997 drew to a close no one doubted that more,
possibly even bigger, skeletons were waiting to emerge from
Japan's financial closet in the New Year.
From the collapse of Yamaichi Securities in Japan's biggest
financial failure since World War two, to the seedy exploits of
a corporate racketeer who brought shame to some of the country's
most prestigious firms, it was a year when what had always been
whispered, became public.
Nothing summed up Japan's plight more than Prime Minister
Ryutaro Hashimoto bluntly telling Asian Pacific leaders during
their November summit meeting in Vancouver that Japan could not
be the locomotive to pull Asia's other ailing economies out of
their mess.
And nothing summed up how serious the plight could yet
become in 1998 than Hashimoto announcing in December that a
U-turn he was making on fiscal policy was for the world's
benefit as much as Japan's.
This is what our country must do and reflects our
resolution to prevent a world recession touched off by Japan,
Hashimoto said in announcing measures that included billions of
dollars in cuts in income tax to get domestic demand moving.

YEAR END A GLOOMY REPETITION OF THE START
The end of 1997 was a gloomy re-run of the start of the year
when the stock market sagged and the yen sank on fears -- later
realised -- that a fiscal austerity regime aimed at curbing the
budget deficit would scuttle Japan's recovery.
The only difference was that the figures became worse.
The yen lost 10 percent of its value against the dollar
during 1997, falling from about 116 to 130 yen.
The picture was even grimmer on the stock market.
On Tuesday's ( December 30 ) last day of 1997 trading, the
benchmark Nikkei index ended at 15,258 points, down nearly 25
percent from 1997's first day of trading.

IMF REVISES OUTLOOK
The International Monetary Fund was not so optimistic,
saying the world's second largest economy faced risks on the
downside.
In its revised World Economic Outlook published last week,
the lending agency said the Japanese economy would grow by 1.1
percent in 1998 compared with 1.0 percent in 1997. As recently
as October, it had forecast 1998 growth at 2.1 percent and 1997
growth at 1.1 percent.
The report said Japan's economic recovery had essentially
stalled this year and warned that Japan's problems could easily
threaten the economies of the world's other big economies.
The key near-term risk for the advanced economies involves
a possible intensification of the slowdown in Japan, which could
aggravate already serious problems in the financial sector, with
potential spillovers to other countries, it said.
It's still a very vulnerable situation and some people
close to the prime minister think that all the ( policy ) bullets
( to revive the economy ) have been shot and there are none left,
said Takashi Kiuchi, chief economist at LTCB Research Institute.
Some analysts believe that Hashimoto may have to quit to
clear the way for bolder policy measures even though the year
ended with the opposition in even greater disarray through the
disbandment of the country's biggest opposition party.
It is difficult to see how this government can go much
further without actually having to resign, said Russell Jones,
chief economist at Lehman Brothers. This government has
probably shot its bolt.
They see no other leader, either in the government or
opposition, who has the drive to survive what is expected to be
1998's wild economic ride.
They worry that the prime minister's plans for a Big Bang
deregulation of financial and other markets in 1998 would lose
impetus, or even be cast aside, if Hashimoto was unseated.
The decisive moment is likely to come in July when there are
elections for the upper house of parliament.
If Hashimoto's ruling Liberal Democratic Party ( LDP ) does
well, the prime minister may buy himself time to see the fruits
of his last ditch fiscal measures and live up to his dream of
leading Japan into a calmer 21st century.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:06
Miro U>(@LGB and info or gold standards) ID#347457:
LGB, my main argument is that we do not have information standard, not so much that the currency value should be based on gold ( though it worked through the centuries ) . I just don't like when we make statement that the new standard is here before we have a clear idea how it works or set the strict rules how the standard is applied. Right now I see that it is used ( and misused ) mostly by traders - this does not give me too much confidence because the main goal of traders is to make money not to maintain a monetary stability. As a matter of fact traders don't make much money when there is a stability in markets - they make money on up and down moves of markets.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:04
DJ U>(BBL) ID#215208:
Away--- for a hair cut.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:03
Realistic U>(COMEX DATA) ID#410194:
Here are the latest Comex inventory figures released after trading today:

Gold: Unchanged at 489,158

Silver: Fell 92,408 ounces to 109,848,078 -- A new 13 year low

Quite a night and day in Silver; a huge european hedge-fund took advantage of the very thin market conditions and flooded the market with heavy sell orders at the opening of the Access electronic trading last night leaving the market sharply lower at 595 in March Silver coming into the opening in New-York this morning and then it briefly spiked as low as 580 because of the stop losses in the 600 area.

Is it manipulation? No. Selling a market is not manipulating it, it's just that a few traders ( from the hedge-fund ) gagned up and took advantage of an unusual situation by choosing the timing of the holidays.
Not necessarily nice for the weak longs but hey, the markets are open for trading no?

Conventional wisdom says that a real bull market gets rid of most traders before it really takes off. It seems to us that many traders will come back from the holidays realizing that they are out of the market while prices are already higher. There were 2 devastating ticks a couple of minute into the New-York opening: 585 and then 580! Tons of sell orders have been filled at these prices; traders being stopped out.

March Silver didn't quite close above the important psychological 600 level but it jumped from 594 to 599.5 in the last 30 seconds before closing! See how this 600 level is something. So the second to last tick was 599.5 and the last closing tick has been settled at 598.8. February Gold also jumped up a full dollar 3 minutes before closing.

Next week should bring back the big picture again in Silver and beware of lots of upside potential again.

From MONTREAL CANADA ( the world's most exciting city....well, all right, ONE of the most exciting city ) :

BONNE ANNEE A TOUS! HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:03
DJ U>(Upset?) ID#215208:
Ted - Are we to understand that you are upset Only one thing to do now. Take a drink ( 2 if your wife is home ) out onto your new deck, and let the balm of the Atlantic ocean sooth your soul. HNY


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:03
kiwi U>(Bear assed Soros...shorting the world....buying gold? ) ID#194311:
Soros says global finance system breaking down
LONDON ( Reuters ) - Financier George Soros said Wednesday the
international financial system was suffering a systemic
breakdown thanks to the crisis in south-east Asia.
Writing in the Financial Times newspaper, the
multi-billionaire behind Soros Fund Management said the
financial community should grab the opportunity to set up a new
global authority to guarantee international loans for a fee.
``What started out as a minor imbalance ( in Asia ) has become
a much bigger one that threatens to engulf not only
international credit but also international trade,'' he wrote in
the paper.
``We are on the verge of worldwide deflation.''
Hungarian-born Soros found himself at the heart of the Asian
turmoil in July after Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad
accused him of being behind the regional currency crisis.
The billionaire philanthropist, who by some accounts single
handedly forced the British pound out of the European Exchange
Rate Mechanism in 1992, denied the accusation.
His fund management company lost around $2.0 billion in some
three days when global stock markets first buckled in late
October because of the Asian turmoil.
Soros said on Wednesday the problems in Asia ran deep, but
the international community was unwilling to face them.
He said the private sector was ill suited to allocate
international credit and did so with the goals of maximum profit
and minimum risk in mind with scant regard for fostering
macro-economic balance in the borrowing countries concerned.
``It follows that international capital movements need to be
supervised and the allocation of credit regulated by an
international authority,'' he wrote in the paper.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 17:00
farfel U>(BACK BY POPULAR REQUEST...KARLITO'S SONG...) ID#28585:
I once knew a gal named Karlito
Who studied macro and micro economics at the Paris Lido
When the truth was discovered
She never recovered
Now she's a stripper again without equal.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:58
223 U>(Propaganda for gold buying? never.) ID#26669:
http://web.arts.ubc.ca/history/ww2prop/prop.htm

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:55
DJ U>(May Auld Acquaintance ....) ID#215208:
Lurker 777 - Platinum closed at $370.80

Avalon - Election? Could be. I try not to reason why, I just try to make sure that I am headed the right direction, whichever way it is going.

As to your other question, India is by far the largest gold buyer, with about 25% of the total market that I include in my analysis. The US is second. Here is the breakdown ( country; tonnes; % )

Indian Rupees 713 25.6%

American Dollars 341 12.3%

Chinese Renmimbi 257 9.2%

Turkish Lira 219 7.9%

Saudi Arabian Riyal 203 7.3%

Taiwan Dollars 144 5.2%

Japanese Yen 136 4.9%

Indonesian Rupiah 127 4.6%

South Korean Won 127 4.6%

Italian Lira 87 3.1%

German Marks 82 2.9%

Thai Baht 60 2.2%

Brazilian Real 59 2.1%

French Francs 53 1.9%

Mexican New Pesos 41 1.5%

Hong Kong Dollars 40 1.4%

British Pounds 40 1.4%

Malaysian Ringgit 34 1.2%

Singapore Dollars 20 0.7%


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:54
farfel U>(OK. OK...YOU JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF SHORTY MCGEE....) ID#28585:
( THE TALE OF SHORTY MCGEE!!! ( A Gold Shorter's Confession ) ID#28585:

I was taught and tutored in the New Paradigm
I kissed the ass of the great Mutual Fund behind
I never met a derivative I didn't like
I wailed at every interest rate hike
Now I'm short 100,000 ounces of silver and twice as much gold
I must be one F___ing lemming, my mind must be blown!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:53
vertigo U>(Happy New Year and may the coming year..) ID#42371:
.. erase the memories of the Gold Crash of 97, and we too have our bite of the apple

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:51
Ted U>(Cape Parasite.....and World War 3 is about ta break out) ID#364147:
Just in from eight or so hours of non-stop nail-pounding and thanks to my yocal realtor my done-deal may be un-done---I know believe anything is possible here in ole CB as this is just INCREDIBLE but I never expected to sell this place during the winter and will do it MYSELF ( the only way in CB ) next spring-summer...The negotiations are all through e-mail ( and I copied EVERTHING ) and this is lawsuit material but that is NOT my style as lawyers ( sorry Tort-WW ) and the law system DISGUST me....The judge has until 1/14 to sign the ORIGINAL contract and put the check in escrow...if not the cost for mr. big-shot judge goes up 1,000 ( c ) a DAY....With the Canadian dollar at near record lows was not that anxious to 'cash-out' anyway so I guess I'll fufill ( NOT ) a lifetime dream of owning FOUR houses ( 2-Vermont,-Cape Breton and a soon ( March 1 ) to built house ( the oceanfront 'dream house' ) on Swans Island Maine....Our plans for the night WERE to go to the Sydney casino but I have made my LAST appearence in public in CB ( other than the supermarket ) until I leave on March 1...I now have COMPLETE contempt for this society and all ( ) that it stands for....Piss on the New Orleans judge---piss on yocal lawyer bruce Tobin!!
Fuk them...eh....LOSERS---the opposite of the 'midas touch' excists here as everthing they touch turns ta sh!t....Other than this minor set-back I had a great day as a blow out of a carpentry day invigorates me!!! Will spend our LAST New Years' Eve right freakin here!!!...go gold!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:46
themissinglink__A U>(Federal Reserve Options) ID#373403:
The Asian liquidity crisis is due to the loss of assets collateralizing the savings of the population. There are two possible solutions. Use taxpayer money to make savers whole thereby reducing the economy through tax increases/benefit reductions or increase the money supply to make liquid the banks.

Money creation begets inflation and large, quick, and secret money creation begets inflationary spirals.

Inflation increases borrowing costs, the compensation for putting off current consumption for tomorrows consumption ( i.e. savings )

Increase interest rates hurt borrowers ( todays banks, governments, and corporations ) and cause a downturn in the economy.

Lowering interest rates, money creation, and lower taxes spur the economy but will not be options due to prior actions.

There is no soft landing available here.

Comments?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:44
Lurker 777 U>(PLATINUM) ID#317247:
I would also like the closing price of PLATINUM. Thanks

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:44
farfel U>(ONE MORE TIME...BY SPECIAL REQUEST...SHORTY MCGEE RETURNS!!) ID#28585:
SHORTY MCGEE WISHES EVERY KITCOITE A HAPPY NEW YEAR '98!!! ) ID#28585:

Well, I'm taking the wife for a night on the town
We're gonna get wasted, go naked, and get down
We'll go F___ing crazy and let all the tension go
'Coz you see, I'm short big on silver and helluva lot more on gold
But I believe in the New Paradigm and all that crock
I believe the U.S. dollar is holier than God
I've leveraged my short beyond all belief
In fact, I've even gone and leveraged my seat
But I'm a grown-up now and need no rebuke
I'll look forward to tomorrow when I awake in my puke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:42
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
Silver/Gold Ratio = 46.70

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:42
Avalon U>(@ DJ; Thanks for your charts. Now for my question re your gold chart of) ID#254269:

15.59. Keep in mind that I am a newbie with charts, but when I look at
it very closely, the US Dollar price of gold seems to take a fairly large
drop ( I'm sure there is a technical term for it ) right about the end
of November 1996. That wouldn't have anything to do with a certain
US election, would it ?
Second part of my question, after the US Dollar, what other currency
has the biggest impact ( hope I'm phrasing that correctly ) on the
world gold currency ?
I think I follow the rest of your argument okay.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:40
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .257

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:40
Lurker 777 U>(Does anyone know the closing price of PLATIUM ?) ID#317247:
Last price I have is $371.00.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:39
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 27.40

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:35
LGB U>(@ Miro...re Karlito) ID#269409:
Ahh Miro but wasn't Karlito's point directed at the efficacy of a truly free market coupled with instantaneous information? Remember those bad old Nixon Wage and Price controls and the follow up inflation of the Carter years.

Fixing currencies to Gold, or each other is an artificial and too rigid limitation of free market capitalism.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:35
vertigo U>(Up, up in '98) ID#42371:
The last two times gold went below 290 it rallied significantly within two months. Lets hope history repeats itself. Lets face it it can't get a lot worse. With miners down 50-60% or more, how much lower can it go. They might as well close the lot down and delist if it goes much lower.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:33
Donald__A U>(@Studio.R) ID#26793:
Happy New Year to you and yours also. I don't know. I mailed them all the charts two months ago. I gave them an alert when we hit a new high on Dec. 9th and again just recently when there was a 9% drop from that high. I think they will use their own chart and data. I am anxious to see it from the E-Wave point of view. I claim no expertise in E-Wave!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:30
LGB U>(@ DJ, SIlver) ID#269409:
Absolutely excellent graphs DJ. Your analysis is also right on IMHO.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:28
6pak U>(1997 - 68 nations - Hostilities - Instability - Since 1989, 4 Million Killed - ) ID#335190:
December 31, 1997
World got more dangerous in 1997 with rise in conflicts

WASHINGTON ( AP ) - The world was a bit more dangerous in 1997, shaken by 68 conflicts, four more than a year earlier. We're not a world at peace, we're a world in conflict, said Andy

Messing Jr., executive director of the National Defence Council Foundation, which tallies hostilities worldwide. In its annual count of World Conflict Areas, the Alexandria, Va.-based think tank listed 68 countries and regions afflicted by war, civil strife, or other forms of violence, including major criminal activity and drug trafficking.

The United States was one eight countries dropped from last year's survey. Sharply reduced crime rates eliminated the U.S. from the list for the first time in six years.

Other countries removed from the list were Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Cameroon, Djibouti, Guatemala and Niger. They were more than offset by 12 new entries of countries and regions where conflicts erupted: Albania, Brazil, the Comoros, Congo, French Guyana, Greece, Italy, Laos, the Philippines, Senegal, Tanzania and Zambia.

The survey features an instability indicator based on economic, social, political and security in individual countries.

States with the highest instability rates - those most likely to implode or explode over the next year - include North Korea, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and Sudan, the report said.

Not all analysts agree with the foundation's findings. Daniel Smith, associate director of the Centre for Defence Information, another Washington-area think tank, says only 21 major conflicts were still active at the end of 1997.

Both the ongoing wars and those which have subsided have taken a huge toll over the years. A study by the Carnegie Commission on Preventing Deadly Conflict says that since 1989 over four million people worldwide have been killed in violent conflicts.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:27
Donald__A U>(Silver still in backwardation) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/12/31/financial_news/goldsilver_3.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:26
LGB U>(@ Cueball....15:42.........) ID#269409:
Cueball, get a Clueball. We are expected to conduct ourselves no differently than.... .....This IS the way I conduct myself in face to face discussions of controversy.

The only difference is that in face to face, ( as Strad so correctly pointed out ) , it becomes obvious by my continuous mirth, that my comments are meant to carry satirical as well as factual content.

( With the excpetion to comments re Puetz statements about his country that is..... )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:24
Dr. R U>(To one and all...) ID#268342:
A very Happy New Year!

But don't forget the other New Year - Jan 28/29 The Year of the Tiger.

cheers!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:23
STUDIO.R U>(@Donald_A......congrats and Happy New Year!) ID#93232:
Will the article feature your Chart? Good stuff.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:22
Donald__A U>(S&P downgrades sovereign credit rating of Indonesia (about time fror Christ's sake)) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/971231/s_p_rts_bank_negra_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:21
Miro U>(@Karlito99 on the Information Standard) ID#347457:
Karlito, sorry for replying so late, but the heart of information standard - Internet failed me and I could not get to Kitco.

You wrote:

That is precisely what the information standard delivers in the currency markets. On a minute-to-minute basis we know the exact value of any unit of currency. Its not fixed by government bureaucrats or held constant by the manipulations of central banks. The value of any currency is set by the global market, which, as I stated early, is a much more demanding standard than gold because the feedback mechanisms built into it a larger, more obvious and practically instanaeous.

Followed by:

It depends.... we are dealing with an extremely complex system where there are a lot of prevailing factors. There will be times when a stupid statement may account for nothing, at other times it may be significant.

My response:

But this just supports my argument. There is no information standard = you are using very loose interpretation of the word. The fact that we have instantaneous access to the exact value of any unit of currency does not set the value of this currency. It just helps the trader to take advantage of this knowledge to make money, to make a run on some country currency, etc. It does not help an average citizen in his daily life. If I receive my paycheck today and afternoon the prime minister makes a stupid statement which goes on net and trader devaluate my paycheck by 50% what am I to do? It also opens the door to manipulate the currency through putting out information which is suppose to change the valuation so that somebody can take advantage of it ( just like all PR spread through information media related to stock market ) . Hardly rigid standard

As you can see this information standard is failing when it comes to stock valuation. Take for example latest valuation of Oracle corp. Within days of Oracle announcing that they will not meet the revenue expectation their stock took a 50% dive. So what is the correct valuation of Oracle, the value before this announcement or value after the announcement. Oracle did not change anything on how they do business so so how this information standard relates to a vide swings in their valuation? I doubt that this is what we look for in monetary standard.

Than you wrote:

That's not been my experience at all. My experience has

been that technology coupled with the appropriate

business strategy, transforms the business.

My reply:

It transforms the efficiency how we do business but it does not change the underlying purpose of our business. Farmer still grows the food, retail delivers it to customer, and banking takes care of financial aspect of that transaction.

Same goes for warfare - a basic premise of warfare - to defeat your enemy did not change. Until we all step into virtual reality we I will pretend that I grow food and you will pretend that you ate it, and we decide to settle wars through a computerized war games, information technology helps us but does not replace what we do.

As far as you statement:

Information technology probably won't replace dna in

our lifetimes, I am not sure I would agree with that

statement for all time. Such technology has radically

changed human behavior and health.

I reply:

That’s what really scares me as well as most of the responsible scientists. We are pushing the envelope and forgetting about ethics and many time for immediate gratification we try to play God.

You wrote:

I too am amazed at the lack of understanding of IT at

senior levels of large organizations, and the desire not to

know coupled with a willingness to believe that all will

turn out for the best. IT then becomes a crutch for not

thinking about the business, because you are spending so

much time thinking about IT.

I reply:

Here we go, we can agree at something ;- )

Karlito, there is a lot where information technology can help, but there are things which are based on more than the fast access to information to take advantage of it and make money. Principles, morals, ethics, etc. are just few which come to my mind. To be honest, the fact that all these things are discussed on this forum ( not just how to make a few bugs fast ) is what is so addicting on this forum.

Go Kitco, go Gold, thanks Bart, and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all of you.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:21
DJ U>(Channels) ID#215208:
And the last channels chart for the year.

Silver: Still seems to be well contained within the steeply rising channel. Silver bugs shouldn't be worried unless the price breaks through the channel bottom. I doubt this will happen, but who knows.

Gold: Yes, gold failed to maintain the slope it had taken during the rally, and is now wandering ( IMHO for reasons expressed in my previous post. ) . No clear direction at the moment.

Platinum: Has broken out of the steep downward channel to the upside ( barely ) . Could be the start of a new rally, but I have a hard time believing this will happen, with the Yen still on the rocks, relative to the US$.

Palladium: Its recent strong rally seems to have run into a brick wall at the top of this channel.

All this said, I really don't trust anything that has happened in the last week, with many of the major markets closed and trading very thin. Personally, I exited most of my gold positions when Asian currencies weakened during the last rally ( yes, a little too early to catch the peak ) . I am waiting for a confirmed direction in the currencies before I jump back in. If currencies resume their downward trend, I want to avoid that inevitable 20-30% hit to my already damaged gold investment funds.

I plan to watch closely what happens Friday, and to be at my computer at least an hour before the market opens next Monday ( the first real industrial-strength trading day ) to catch up with the Asian action. Many of the metals are at extremes. One way or the other, there should be ample opportunities to make great gains early in the new year, but one must be fleet of foot.

HNY y'all.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:20
223 U>(DJ Thanks!) ID#26669:
One graph is worth a thousand words.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:16
Donald__A U>(Dow Gold Ratio) ID#26793:
I just heard from a reliable source that Bob Prechter will be highlighting the Dow/Gold Ratio from an E-Wave perspective in the next issue of Elliott Wave Theorist which will be mailed out on Friday.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:05
tolerant1 U>(Play nice with the children) ID#31868:
do not be that which someone with their own sense of direction must protect them from, enjoy this, life, happiness, tears, life...enjoy this day and remember, life is effort, tears or a smile, never forget how you arrived at either.

My love is truly with, around and always with you for we will never get anywhere without each other.

Something there lurks greater than all of us, ignite your candles, turn on your technology ( no pun intended ) ( promise ) , let us not follow, together there is peaceful confusion...we have arrived, there is us...look no further.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 16:04
Avalon U>(Dow down 12 points (0.15%), S & P 500 down 0.72 points (0.07%) , 30 yr) ID#254269:

bond at 5.925%, Volume on NYSE at 423 million shares.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:59
DJ U>(Currencies) ID#215208:
Here is a New Year's present for all of you.

The price of gold in US$ is still following the value of the average currency of gold buyer's, relative to the US$. IMHO, the reason the rallly failed and gold is heading lower is simply related to the fact that the rally in the currencies failed. The world gold currency now seems to be oscillating in a steep pennant pattern, and must break out either to the upside or downside within the next few days.

With the world gold currency where it is, the price of gold can still fall within quite a wide range, without causing the world gold price to fall outside its historical channel. Right now I would say the US$ price of gold is being drawn down by the currencies. The neutral price would be about $283. The lowest to be expected would be around $272. The highest a rally should go is to $300.

It is extremely important to watch the direction the currencies take early in the new year, as this should be an indicator as to where gold will go, or at least a confirmation ( or lack thereof ) of the direction gold is heading.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:59
STUDIO.R U>(@EB....The Great Gold Hope is still standin'...and he's got that look in his eye...Ring!) ID#93232:
EB, Did your manager pay off the bell-ringer? It rang a little early, old champ. Your haymaker didn't have the stuff, and I'm one pissed-off Jack Elam-look-alike. Mr. Mo Mas is comin' to get ya'....don't get off that stool...where's Dr. Freddie?....where's the towel? You be hurtin' for certain next round.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:55
Allen(USA) U>(All) ID#246224:
May every good be yours and may you share it generously with those around you in this coming year: Health, peace and great love be yours forever. 'Good night and God bless'.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:48
Allen(USA) U>(LGB@GoldConfiscation) ID#246224:
The era, as you know, was one of great extremes. Extreme losses in Equities, Real Estate, jobs, security, peace, and in this country the confiscation of monetary gold and gold bullion.

At least gold was exchanged for face value in US$. Of course, as you know, US$ were revalued in relation to gold ( a 40% devaluation of paper ) . So whereas a person may have lost everything in the shares market they might have lost only 40% if they held gold. Not a bad comparison. Of course, as you would point out, if the person was in cash then they would have had a tremendous buying opportunity at the bottom and in subsequent years.

This begs the question of a moving target. The arguement is started with the assertion that In the long run .. with regard to equities and ends in pointing out that cash was the best place to be. A contradiction of the original assertion.

BTW, the Executive Order regarding gold confiscation was broad enough in its exemptions that anyone with half a wit would have had their gold melted and cast as 'objects de arte' or jewelry, etc. Those who held gold illegally were simply to unimaginative to recognize the escape hatches that were enshrined in the order. If the gold was secured as 'art' or 'jewelry' then the appreciation in value after the US$ devaluation in gold would have yeilded a 69.7% gain. Not bad for a little 're-form'-ation, eh

Here is wishing you a great New Year. Hope you and your family prosper and live in peace with contentment. May the God of all Grace shed His grace upon you and yours forever. Sincerely Yours, Allen ( USA ) .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:44
cherokee__A U>() ID#344308:

don't you just hate it when the santa claus
rally has cherokenazi storm troopers introducing
chaos and flux to the elves?

hot dang-it...........better get ready for some fun.....
..........the stage has been set............

looks like the hong kong chicken flu is spreading
to wall street!!!!!!!!!

aaaaaaawwwwwwwkkkkkkkkkkk------cherokee!;---storming-with-the-troops--

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:43
farfel U>(SHORTY MCGEE WISHES EVERY KITCOITE A HAPPY NEW YEAR '98!!!) ID#28585:
Well, I'm taking the wife for a night on the town
We're gonna get wasted, go naked, and get down
We'll go F___ing crazy and let all the tension go
'Coz you see, I'm short big on silver and helluva lot more on gold
But I believe in the New Paradigm and all that crock
I believe the U.S. dollar is holier than God
I've leveraged my short beyond all belief
In fact, I've even gone and leveraged my seat
But I'm a grown-up now and need no rebuke
I'll look forward to tomorrow when I awake in my puke.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:42
Cueball U>(LGB@no posts for thirty days-lurk only mode) ID#344210:
everyone is expected to conduct themselves no
differently than when engaged in a real face to face discussion. Newcomers should review
before posting.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:42
SDRer__A U>(For Vronsky and Bart, and all the ‘keepers of the star’...) ID#28594:


If a star were confined into a tomb,
Her captive flames must needs burn there;
But when the hand that locked her up gives room,
She’ll shine through all the sphere.

Vaughan, “They Are All Gone Into a World of Light”

With thanks for a gold-mine of information, and sincere wishes
for the happiest of New Years

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:39
Cueball U>(@Happy New years & thanks Bart) ID#344210:
http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/971231/business/stories/soros_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:38
6pak U>(LGB) ID#335190:
Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:02
LGB ( @ Sheller, ...re your AM post...New Years resolutions ) ID#269409:

Well said, and I expect all at this site, should accept your comments at face value. Yes, difference of views, is what makes this site so special.
Take Care.

**To ALL**, a Healthy ( vigor of body, mind, & SPIRIT ) and Happy New Year

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:37
Dave in CO U>(Neosocialism) ID#215211:
Article from National Review by Rupert Murdoch:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a58088.htm


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:32
SDRer__A U>(For LGB (all numbers), Karlito (all numbers) and our committed adversative posters) ID#28594:


Sweet are the uses of adversity.
Which like the toad, ugly and venomous,
Wears yet a precious jewel in his head.
And this our life, exempt from public haunt,
Finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks,
Sermons in stones, and good in everything.

17th Earl of Oxford, “As You Like It”

Happy New Year to you and yours.



Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:23
panda U>(Dow) ID#30116:
Late selling hitting the Dow, all of the days gains given up. Down 4.98.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:21
panda U>(I hate it when it does, That.) ID#30116:
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/dd.htm

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:19
panda U>(TED) ID#30116:
Looks like a cooold evening coming up. Finish the deck!

http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/dd.htm

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:09
cmh U>(New Year) ID#333232:
Happy New Year all,
On Jan. 28 the year of the tiger begins - but what was 1997 ( the rat? ) Anybody?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:08
xau5 U>(Silver Manipulation) ID#201131:
Silver closes at 598.8. Somebody must of had the 6.00 calls. The dealers win again.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:07
6pak U>(Canadian Banks @ Korean club support, & international Welfare networking. All Is Well) ID#335190:
December 31, 1997
Canada banks to maintain South Korean credit

TORONTO, Dec 31 ( Reuters ) - The six major Canadian banks said on Wednesday that they will maintain their current levels of short-term placements to the South Korean commercial banking system over the next 30 days by rolling maturing placements.
The agreement forms part of an international effort among banks in the G7 countries to alleviate the Korean financial system's short-term liquidity difficulties, they said in a press release.

The six banks are: Bank of Nova Scotia , Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce , National Bank of Canada , Royal Bank of Canada , Toronto-Dominion Bank .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:06
farfel U>(THE TALE OF SHORTY MCGEE!!! (A Gold Shorter's Confession)Nev) ID#28585:
I was taught and tutored in the New Paradigm
I kissed the ass of the great Mutual Fund behind
I never met a derivative I didn't like
I wailed at every interest rate hike
Now I'm short 100,000 ounces of silver and twice as much gold
I must be one F___ing lemming, my mind must be blown!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:03
SDRer__A U>(Cherokee, EB and whomever else resides at those address...) ID#28594:
Grössenwahn would be proud of you! On those occasions when you slip into
subject-verb-object speech, we feel ‘dislocated’...

You're Adams in Milton’s “Paradise Lost” expressing your views of the correspondence between words and things:

“I nam’d them, as they pass’d, and understood
Thir Nature, with such knowledge God endu’d
My sudden apprehension....

The happiest of New Years to you and yours.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 15:01
Cyclist U>(seasonal ) ID#339274:
FWIW ..Seasonal strength is coming into play until 22nd of January,
73 on the XAU becomes the sell line in the sand.Prefer plat/gold spreads.
A prosperous New Year to all.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:57
John Disney__A U>(My cup runneth over) ID#24140:
My God - how good can it get - two awards in one day - hypocrite of the

year and blowhard something or other of the year -

Thank you bugman and karlito - and happy new year to all - This

site has provided much good humour and good fellowship for the past

year. Everlasting thanks to Bart.

Oh sportsfans- I made a booboo with sons of gwalia shares outstanding -

should be 102.6 not 1133.0 ( a transposition error ) - please change

on your charts.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:51
Ray U>() ID#411149:
SPEED- thanks for your reply on SSC. Maybe it will get up off it's BUTT and do something in 98, expecially if silver does what D.A. describes as possible.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

TALLY HO

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:49
cherokee__A U>(@------------dog-gone-it--------------friday +1-and-counting---------) ID#344308:

don't you just hate it when silver drops like
a rock?

i do! the strong hands will be back, and then.....

----HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL KITCO-ITES---

may the smoke-signals waft forever in the
sunshine of your minds........i've been waiting so
long....the light shining through..................eric clapton-----

thank all of you for the lights that have shone brightly
as a beacon, drawing this goldbug, as a bug is drawn
to light from darkness......bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

may we fly amongst the lights of knowledge for all time.........

take the first step.......1000k-in'98-----nyr!

--cherokee!; ) ---dotssmfatimm----fotw--bttm-------thanks-kr-







Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:48
SDRer__A U>(I haven't so much as looked at the champs! (yet)) ID#28594:
That should be New Year, of course...do hope this isn't a harbinger

of mistakes to come?

Any way, Happy New Year ( or New York, if it applies? )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:46
LGB U>(@ Allen) ID#269409:
Course some folks bought Gold in 1929 and lost it ALL, to confiscation eh? ( That's why you ought to stick with St. Gaudens coins )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:44
Allen(USA) U>(Spurious comparisons are CRIMINAL when doled out as truth.) ID#246224:
The gross generalization that a $100 investment at 1929 market top NOW is worth $XYZ is another criminal sales job by the typically one side show sellers of paper investments, etc.

What did you invest $100 in 1929? Was it an index derivative? They did not exist then. Many individual companies went bankrupt between 1929 and 1954, which one might your money have been riding on? OK, a trust then? Many went just as bankrupt as the stocks they bought.

I won't be that hard on you. You watched your money drop from $100 to $14 in 2 years. But you were a real spartan about it. You really believed in holding onto that stock ( unlike anyone else ) . And you waited till 1954 to break even. A fifteen year period when your investment was negative. In comparison to a 4% US bond returning $180.10 for the 15 year period you now had your money back, all $100. Basicly you were down by 45% in comparison to a US Bond investment.

If you were 23 years old when you put that money down you are now 38 years old ( 1954 ) . Still $100. A lot of pain and NO gain. You watched the market drop, a suckers rally, and a wipeout of those who bought the dip. Real Estate market sucked in the remaining money and then crashed. You lived through a world-wide depression, went to war in the Pacific and returned to what you hoped was a CHANCE to have some peace and quite only to find the nation plunged into war with China on the Korean penninsula. Your son had to go there.

Now you compare your $100 to that 4% bond yield and everything else in between and think what in the hell is going to happen in the next 15 years that I should keep this $100 in stocks?. So you switch your money into a sure thing bond and then miss the rise from 1954 to 1968. Just in 1967 you decide to switch back to stocks. You ride the wave *UP AND DOWN* through 1973-4.

Inflation is killing you. Bonds are rising and you are looking at rally after decline after rally. Your investment is still about $150 even after the 75% pull back. You decide to switch back into bonds. It is 1975 and you are 64 years old. You are near retirement and inflation is just starting to eat your retirement prospects before they are even born.

You finally retire in 1978. Age 72. Your $150 has been in a 6% note for 3 years. Inflation is eroding your meager investment. About 1980 you decide that you need to sell your house. You have a chronic illness from smoking ( cigarettes generously supplied free during the war and damn hard to stop ) . You are 74. Interest rates are so high you can't sell your house because no one can afford to pay the mortgage rate. You are frozen. It won't be until 1983 that your widow has a chance to sell and then move in with her sister. She has that $250 in bonds. She's scarred stiff at 77 of doing anything other than keeping it there.

*************************************************************************

I'm sorry, but Aesop was and is still correct:

Distrust interested advise

You can not take the word of a salesman to advise you in your financial interest. The conflict of interest is way to great. It is imperative that we recognize those whose interests are vested in their opinion. Today it is TYPICAL to depend upon a financial advisor to help you chart your course in investment, ONE WHO IS GOING TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM SELLING YOU THOSE SAME INVESTMENTS. They do not care in the least if you do well or not in 20 years. They want the sale today and for the next few years.

It is extreme BS to claim that a $100 investment in the 1929 market is now worth $2400 today without taking into account the vagarities and viscictitudes of life in the prior 68 years. IF you held the stocks, IF they did not become worthless, IF you did not have to liquidate to keep body and soul together, IF you did not die in a war, IF you did not sell them to go into another investment, IF inflation did not eat your lunch, IF you had no medical emergencies, IF you didn't cash them in to put a child through college, IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF ...


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:43
SDRer__A U>(For Allen, Carl, Donald, JTF (in alpha order)) ID#28594:

But in the centre of our lives, this time, this day,
It is a state, this spring among the politicians
Playing cards. In a village of the indigenes,
One would have still to discover. Among the dogs and dung,
One would continue to contend with one’s ideas.
The Glass of Water, Wallace Stevens

Many thanks for great ‘catches’, pointed observations, considered thoughts, and not a little brilliance. My sincerest wishes for the best possible New York for you and yours.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:41
farfel U>(STUNNING ANNOUNCEMENT FROM BANK OF JAPAN!!) ID#28585:
Oh, Meestah America Man, you make us buy Treasury Bonds all these years,
Oh, Meestah America Man, Asia collapse now bring us many tears,
Oh, Meestah America Man, we tired holding all this worthless paper,
Oh, Meestah America Man, we buy gold now, better sooner than later.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:40
LGB U>(@ STrad...bear with me just a little longer) ID#269409:
Almost New Year! I've never been good at political correctness, you know, my Nuke the Gay Whales bumpersticker and all. There's just something about PC psychobabble that annoys the hell out of me! That's why I get nauseous when I read some of these laudable and award winning posts by guy's like ...uh OK I won't say.... who completely skirt the issues raised.

Making a long righteous pretense of respecting the folks who built this country by attacking me for not really knowing what it was like for them, while all the while allowing the truly destructive thinkers among us free reign to post any old country hating destructive crap, completely unchallenged.

See, to me, this is just so much phony, gentlemanly, farcical, obfuscating, self righteous, New Age psychobabble poppycock. But yes, you're QUITE right, that my manner of delivery needs work.

The almost dead horse......


PS, I see farfel is still here folks! Guess he didn't wipe out after all....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:39
TPher U>(Happy New Year) ID#372235:

Just wanted to wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:32
JT8D U>(Today's 12:02 post (the USA is a Democracy?)) ID#197328:

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag must be wrong.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:30
vronsky U>(May 1998 Crowd Your Lives with Health, Wealth & Happiness) ID#426220:

ALL: A NEW YEAR’S GREETING FROM THE GOLD-EAGLE STAFF

Perhaps Shakespeare had all GOLDBUGS in mind when he wrote this inspiring thought:

There is a tide in the affairs of men,

Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;

Omitted, all the voyage of their life

Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

On such a full sea are we now afloat;

And we must take the current when it serves,

Or lose forever our ventures.

........ William Shakespeare


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:28
Speed U>(Can we move on?) ID#286199:
Format C: erases all the data on a disk drive running DOS, or any version of Windows. This command would render a computer useless until the operating system, applications and data could be restored. It is the cyber space equivalent of go play in traffic.

Vronksy's graphs are showing recovery on all fronts. Go STUFF

http://www.gold-eagle.com/intra-day.html


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:24
farfel U>(ALERT: MUTUAL FUNDS RELEASE NEWS ABOUT CASH FLOWS!!!) ID#28585:
At Fidelity, you can bet one thing's certain
So much cash has left our coffers, now it's hurtin'
So we called Peter Lynch and asked where it's goin'
Into precious metals, morons! he said, that's where it's flowin'
Now y'all go prepare yourselves for the final curtain!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:24
LGB U>(@ Panda...) ID#269409:
Hey whaddya gto against them miracle drugs? There's a pill for baldness now..which causes impotence, and then there's a pill for impotence...which causes feminization, then there's a masculization pill that causes schizophrenia...then there's.....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:22
Strad Master U>(I hate to rub this in but the opportunity presents itself.) ID#250297:
LGB: Ever hear of the story about The Boy Woh Cried Wolf? With regard to Schedule C or whatever it's called ( I run a Mac so I don't know what that refers to. ) Now you see the result of the kind of posting you often do. No one can tell when you're kidding or not. In cyberspace ( as I've pointed out before ) tone of voice is impossible to communicate so one must be doubly on guard for the way a post might be ( mis ) interpreted. We can only judge you by your history or, if you will, by the bank of good/bad feelings your postings have generated. Please forgie me for flogging an almost dead horse, but when you make comments to Panda like, Calm down and take your Prozac you only exacerbate the problem.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:20
panda U>(LGB) ID#30116:
I don't do psychotropic drugs, I've seen what these 'miracle' drugs do. As for the Win95 or WinNT, the command does work in a DOS window.

I'm in high tech and I've seen intelligent people unknowingly follow some of the most absurd instructions you can imagine. Often with disastrous results.

And no, I don't tell people to play Russian Roulette either. Not even in jest. I know what terminal ballastics look like. However, I do enjoy the shooting sports very much. Perhaps I'm just geting old and cranky?

Nah.

BBL

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:19
vronsky U>(JAPANESE MONETARY PROBLEMS) ID#426220:

Noted ORACLE OF HONG KONG, Milhouse, provides yet another astute and insightful critique of the Nippon Financial Malaise. Milhouse is decidedly bearish, and feels the rapidly falling Nikkei is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better!

“In Japan, the economic recession continues relentlessly. Furthermore, major falls in the stock market appear very likely in 1998, wiping out whatever capital remains in the troubled Japanese institutions.”

“I believe there is a greater chance that the Japanese people will start accumulating GOLD to protect their substantial savings...”

Milhouse’s clear-sighted and perceptive report may be found at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/milhouse122997.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:15
Avalon U>(Gold nuggest all around us; unfortunately quite often we don't see them.) ID#254269:


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:15
Frustrated U>(John Disney's spreadsheet) ID#298259:
DJ...I had no trouble by just clicking on the e-mail, saving it as a regular old .txt file and opening it in Lotus Word Pro...everything was under the proper headings...heck of a lot easier than converting it.

Thanks for all your trouble in providing the info John ... ( havy )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:11
Strad Master U>(Truth) ID#250297:
LGB: Thanks. I respect those who are willing to learn and change when the truth confronts them. ( You're a formidible adversary - so your respect is doubly meaningful. ) In so many arenas of life today, a person's agenda is more important than the facts. I pray that in the New Year all of us will be gifted with the ability to discern real truth and that we will be able to separate out our feelings, hopes, wishes and dreams allowing us to act accordingly.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:11
panda U>(Dr. R.) ID#30116:
NO PROBLEM! Talking in cyber space can be a bit tough. Much meaning of a spoken phrase is be conveyed by tone. Tone is not present in cyberland ( printed cyberland, that is. ) There has been more than one occasion of such misunderstandings here. :- )

Not to worry.....

Still in shell shock over the prices though. Just think, and I used to be upset at the price of gold falling! :- ) )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:09
LGB U>(@ Panda.....dude......get a sense o' humor!) ID#269409:
Panda, sit down, take a Prozac, and relax. Everyone on this forum knows what format c means. If someone doesn't know, then they're Newbies with Win 95 and wouldn't know how to give the command anyway!

Now as to maliciousness, my comment was obviously a joke. Must I explain EVERYthing? dammit!!!!

Hapy New Year

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:06
LGB U>(SSC down to 15/16....) ID#269409:
SSC down based on the attack on Silver by the shorts. COuld it be time for a short term spec. play once again? Paasf, SSRIF, same thing....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:05
panda U>(LGB) ID#30116:
Now really LGB! Telling someone to enter a Format C? Come on LGB. That borders on the malicious. If one were to do that, unknowingly, do you know what the result of that operation would be? If the answer is, Yes, then you are a malicious person. Instructing someone to do something that is injurious to their person or property, without them knowing the consequences of that advised action, is, well, ...

Never mind. That's just a waste of my time and Barts board....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:04
themissinglink__A U>(Long Market Weekend) ID#373403:
For what it is worth, I have never made a market call on this network before now. I have limited myself to market analysis of the underlying fundamentals.

In my opinion, even with a modest uptick before this long holiday weekend, the time spent in private reflection will have a profound negative impact on the equity markets worldwide. People are grasping for tea leaves all over the news to divine the direction of the market and how to preserve and grow their IRA's and other investments. The markets have been bouncing around and without the strong bull direction of the past few years, private investors will use this time to realize how little they know about stock market investing.

Fidelity's new secrecy of mutual fund outflows is an indicator of this. Sunday night panic in Japan followed by a sizeable exodus in the NYSE on Monday. Thats my call LGB and Karlito. Maybe you can hound me off this network on Tuesday, maybe not.

Get out, get out! The sky is falling!

Happy new year.

Steven

http://www.familyjeweler.com

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:04
Strad Master U>(Furthermore...) ID#250297:
LGB: I read your postings precicely BECAUSE you are a Devil's Advocate and so you bring a great balance and perspective to this group. I've learned much from you, and yet much I still disagree with. Still, far too much bandwith gets wasted when your attacks are over the top and then others rush to defend. 'Nuff said...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:04
Speed U>(This and that) ID#286199:
Crystal Ball: How can that be? Gold is not money nor is it a store of value. Who escaped from the re-education camp? ; )

Goldhound: I recently expended the last of my dry powder on gold and silver mining stocks because they are cheap and will make me money. I wish I had money to buy back into the Energy Services sector because they are going up like a scalded cat. Don't buy into the end 'o the world stuff until you hear that first trumpet blow. There's still time to score some profit. Now where did I put those rules of acquisition.....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:03
LGB U>(Wert) ID#269409:
As long as I don't have to practice moderation with the champagne tonight!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:01
wert U>(LGB NEW YRS Resolutions) ID#243250:
LGB: just more of the same dialogue..as we ALL tend to drink too much of our own bathwater..balance and moderation ..... . .regards

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 14:00
LGB U>(@ Strad...) ID#269409:
Point well taken you guilt inducing purveyor o' wisdom! Happy New Year to ya...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:57
Silver Bull U>(SILVER) ID#287312:

Well, that is the way the game is played. This action was positive -- if you didn't get crushed. The new buyers were waiting for this and the longs that had to get out will be the buyers above 6.30---nothing has changed but the price -- a bargin.

Margins are going to 2,430 from 1,980 on Friday.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:56
wert U>(LGB Resolutions) ID#243250:
LGB: just more of the same.. as you are right we all drink too much of our own bathwater ....Happy New Years to you..now go and enjoy...regards

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:56
Strad Master U>() ID#250297:
LGB: Read Carl's 10:05 and agree 100%. Now, what if he had phrased it like this:

To All Kitcoites: I've been visiting this site for about a year and despite the fact that most of the pople who post here are either morons, financial ignormuses, or egotistical blowhards, I still manage to glean a few curnels of valuable knowlege from amid the muck. Thanks and Happy New Year.

I admit it is something of an oversimplification, but I'm sure you get the point.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:56
tolerant1 U>(SDRer) ID#31868:
I would beg forgiveness, that must be Mr. Bill Monroe. MR. Sir, no one can ever take your place.

No more, no less.

Done.

Being drunk or happy is no excuse, none whatsoever.

There may be God, perhaps a United Union, and then there is Mr. Bill Monroe.

Thank you Sir with leaving us with so much.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:48
WSF U>(Come on, LGB) ID#188244:
Quit saying that those who followed Puetz lost 100%. That is only true if they allocated their entire portfolio to the puts. I don't think he advocated that for a second. It is so tiresome to see you continually building straw men and then blowing them away. Some accomplishment! Maybe you can replace Lanny Davis at the White House.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:43
Crystal Ball U>(@ All) ID#287367:
Just heard on Bloomberg that Samsung and Daewoo are asking the Korean people to donate gold coins and jewelry to help shore up the Won!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:39
tolerant1 U>(SDRer) ID#31868:
My living coffin is weighted by the sentiments of your post. One of my last gasps is truly given in thanks of your thoughts. Bill Monroe smiles upon ya and yours. The Great Hat is tipped in respect.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:38
Lurker 777 U>(LGB (thanks)) ID#317247:
Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:06
LGB ( @ farfel ) ID#269409:
Format C will cure that problem yer having farfel

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:34
LGB U>(@ Strad Master.....re Carls 10:05) ID#269409:
STrad, I just want to recommend you read Carl's 10:05 because I do believe the man speaks truth. I too have learned much from some of the most annoying and abrasive personalities when I watch shows like Firing Line, Wall St. Week. Washington Week in Review, or any of the other goos debate shows.

What the GoldBugs here don't realize, is that I am here, not as an attack dog, but as their FRIEND. Yes, a devils advocate brings out the best arguments in others at times, and deep down I'd like to see a resurgence in interest for Gold as investment. That won't happen ( at least in this local U.S. market ) as long as the world's perception of GoldBugs is that they are one sided, one noted, monolithic, whacko fringe, lunatics.

However, as to your suggestions on how I might better word my critical thougts. you have indeed induced guilt feelings in me once again and sent me to my New Years Resolution list to underline a couple things!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:34
goldhound U>(Speed - WSJ Article 12:26) ID#432169:
Thanks for posting that article - quite interesting. IMHO I believe the secrecy is in part to quell the general N/A population. I suspect there would be a lot of po'd voters if they really knew where their hard earned tax dollars are going .... to pay for the sins of Asian overexhuberance.
BTW - can anybody give me _one good reason why anyone should be putting their money in the equities market these days?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:29
Allen(USA) U>(Karlito_99@InformationMoney) ID#246224:
Your insistance that 'information' is the 'new money' is seriously flawed. Typical management magazine fare. Your recent use of the 'wife as money' analogy is also seriously degenerate and maligns women in general. Typical of those who have no respect for others ( who do not pay you ) .

Answer this question:

Why has it been that just before each major market change ( bull to bear/crash, bear to bull ) virtually all professional experts such as yourself and your colleages have been *WRONG* in their assessment of the next period's performance?

You are a salesman. PERIOD. You are not rewarded for thinking differently than those who pay your salary and bonuses. Sell the image. By the way, how is your bonus looking for this year. Millions I would suppose. Of course all 'legitimate' in that no obvious letter of the law was broken.

BTW why are you here?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:28
Strad Master U>(Maybe by example...) ID#250297:
LGB: Thanks for your kind words. I must say that in some ways you exasperate me. If I am indeed the only Kitcoite who can upbraid you and have you listen, and if I do have a way with words, then perhaps constructing an example for you of how you might post might be helpful:

To Vronsky from LGB: I feel that your Gold Eagle site, while filled with fascinating and important information about gold, could use another perspective as well. We are all in this business to try ( as best we can ) to make money from the markets and considerable money has already been made by those who have been short gold. While I admit that a turnaround in perception may be coming with regard to gold, that time hasn't arrived yet. Perhaps you might consider including a few articles of a contrarian ( for gold bulls ) nature pointing out some of the variables that have recently contributed to its downward price movement. I suspect that a few such articles would go a long way toward providing a balanced view of gold at your otherwise excellent site.

...or words to that effect. You can catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar and all you accomplish by calling Vronsky names is to alienate him ( and everyone else ) and his site will never have the balance you seek. Of all people here at Kitco, Vronsky is a true Gentleman and Scholar and if we are to live in this world together, then we all need to get used to treating one another with the respect due.

I eagerly await evidence of your New Year's resolution, my friend, for you are a very valuable member of the Kitco family ( albeit something of a black sheep ) and I wish you and your family all the very best for the coming year. ( Oh! - Almost forgot... I presently control 180,000 ozs of silver and am still short on gold. Thanks for your advice on silver - but I've been folowing my own. )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:27
Dave in CO U>(@John Disney - thanks) ID#215211:
Please keep your valuable contributions coming and try not to be distracted in the process. The page scroll key works wonders. If that key should eventually fail from overuse, the down arrow key will suffice even though you may be exposed to more of the redundant drivel.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:27
Emerald Heights U>(CARL post of 10:05....I to a new person to this site.) ID#227311:
Share your very well said sentiments 100%. EH

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:19
Lurker 777 U>(LGB) ID#317247:
I have observed recently that you and farfel have an understanding of each others views. Can you comment on his latest opinions.

Maybe you can help him tone down his frivolous postings of late.Thank you.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:19
LGB U>(@ DaveinCO......it's ALL a roll of the dice) ID#269409:
You can't escape the fact that risk is involved in any investment, stocks, cash under the mattress, Gold...the question is always risk/reward probabilities. We could just as easily trot out anecdotal reports of people reading Puetz who lost 100% of their investment stash because they bought December S&P Put options.

Or folks who bought Gold share funds in late 1996 based on recommendations on Voronsky's site, and have now seem a 60% loss, the worst modern sector fund loss for a single years performance. Pretty big story actually, if anyone in the Gold analyst market wants to find something to report on.

As Karlito so crrectly pointed out, a $100 inevsted at the PEAK of the equities market in 1929, has far outperformed the same $100 in Gold. But then 1929 is not analogous to today's economy anyway. If we look at the more current 14 year period you gave, it's not nearly as severe or nasty a prolonged bear market, as the current 18 year strecth in Gold has been.

If we look back 50 years, or 100 years, we get the same results. Stocks overall have consistently outperformed Gold in the long run. That trend is likely to continue.

When inflation is factored in, Gold, as I mentimed yesterday, has seen the worst, most brutal crash in value of any primary investment in our lifetimes. That fact is simply inescapable.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:16
DJ U>(Prices) ID#215208:
NJ - Thanks for the effort. Its somewhat amazing that Kitco seems to be the only site where spot prices are available for all 4 metals.

All - Best wishes for a healthy and prosperous new year.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:13
Allen(USA) U>(Farfel@Typomatic) ID#246224:
Again

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:09
vronsky U>(“YEAR END MARKET REVIEW” Current Fundamentals) ID#426220:

Dr. Thomas Drake generously shares with the GOLD-EAGLE readership a synopsis of his erudite and comprehensive “YEAR END MARKET REVIEW.”

It is indeed a perceptive and incisive analysis... must reading for the serious market student and professional. Also, very illuminating are the two 23-year charts of GOLD and the US Dollar.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/Aurophile123197.html


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:06
LGB U>(@ farfel) ID#269409:
Format C will cure that problem yer having farfel

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 13:06
Dave in CO U>(@Spud Master - PBS Frontline Betting on the Stockmarket) ID#215211:
An interesting segment was the wife who bought a single stock with all of the family savings without discussing it with her husband. And she didn't even know the company's name. She only knew that the stock would double by August.

The periods of 1929-1954 and 1968-1982 were mentioned, the latter year in each period being the breakeven for stocks. This covers almost 40% of the 20th Century. Correct me if wrong but I don't think inflation was figured in. And they probably didn't include companies which went out of business. I know, I know, not everybody put everything in the market in 1929 or 1968, but since many of the small investors probably did, their long memories and distaste for equity investing could have contributed to the lengths of the recoveries.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:56
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:48
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:47
LGB U>(@ Disneyland....MoReGoLd...........Vronsky's site) ID#269409:
Thanks for your comedic post John. I needed a little humor to lighten things up. For you to comment on what's polite and proprietous is exceedingly funny, based on your own record in such areas. I hereby nominate you for Self righteous blowhard hypocrite of the Year award

Now as to Vronsky's site, I've said MANY times here that it's a very impressive, well done, informative, and valuable resource. I've been restrained in criticim of the imbalanced presentation there. and when I finally slip in a few comments in the past couple days about a dearth of reporting by the GoldEagle analysts on what Gold has REALLY done, I get thiese personal attacks from Sheller and Vronsky based on my military service!!! ( But nothing in response to the relevant issues re Gold and Gold funds!!!!! )

The criticism of the site as Monolithic, and deceivingly one sided is warranted. However, that does not mean the site isn't useful, well done, valuable, and worth reading.

If you Gold bugs want the world at large to take you seriously, you're going to have to learn to address ALL facets of the good AND the bad in Gold's preformance history in an honest way. It'll do a lot more to bring credibility to Gold investing, if it's analyzed by honest and balanced analysts.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:46
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:45
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:44
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:44
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:43
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:42
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:42
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:41
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Ditty from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:39
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Commentary from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:39
Avalon U>(Was this an example of how we can use information ?) ID#254269:
Consider this very recent use of technology;
1. At 12.08 I posted my comment re the WSJ article.
2. At 12.26 Speed had posted it ELECTRONICALLY to this site.
3. At 12.30 I had posted my thanks to Speed for his help.
Now consider, Speed and I have never met each other and I don't even know where Speed is located. ALL of this was done at the ( pardon the pun ) speed of light. And the article is available for all Kitcoites to view as they wish.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:38
farfel U>(ALERT: Latest Commentary from AL GREENSPAN!!!!) ID#28585:
There'll be blood on the streets of Bull City
So much red you'll just wanna choke
The gold short squeeze that's a comin'
Will leave your head a hummin'
And the gold shorters feeling a mighty broke.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:35
LGB U>(@Realistic.....Silver shrinking) ID#269409:
That's my take on it too, when the traders return en masse, I just don't see how the inventory situation can be ignored. I'm hoping for that $6.00+ close. Could this be the final, genuinely effective attack on Silver during this bull run?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:31
SDRer__A U>(for Tolerant1) ID#286249:
Kishun Ryuki, First Poem of the Year ( 1591 )

Eighy years, and I've added another,
a drifting traveler, leaving things up to Heaven.
Who understands that a poor monk too can boast of riches--
yellow leaves are his gold, the mosses his copper coins.

May it always be so for you Tolerant1. HNY!


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:30
Avalon U>(@ Speed; Thanks for postig WSJ article.) ID#254269:


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:30
Speed U>(Apology for double spacing) ID#286199:
The preview before post feature failed me. I'll clean it up manually next time.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:29
MoReGoLd U>(@Golden New Year) ID#348286:
LGB: I wish you all the success for the new year in turning around your miserable existence.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:27
Realistic U>(@LGB) ID#410194:
If March Silver closes above the so important $6 level today, ( making it a year closing too ) it would be a big short term positive and a quick recovery could be at hand but if it doesn't close above, there could be some churning and twisting before it recovers.

I suspect that once the huge players are back next week, the inventory shrinking situation will be back as a concern providing an upwards bias.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:27
DEJ U>(Soros) ID#269191:
George Soros warned that the world is on the precipice of deflation.
He proposes a world central bank as a global lender of last resort.

Why should we listen to this man when we have LGB? Everything's fine, right LGB?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:26
Speed U>(Avalon) ID#286199:
Here is the article

The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition --

December 30, 1997

Edit Page Features

Why Secrecy Is Bad for Banking

By MARTIN MAYER

For several months, the U.S. Treasury Department and

the International Monetary Fund have been calling on

Asian central banks to fess up about the condition of

the banks and finance companies they supervise and

to force the borrowers from those institutions to keep

their books according to the generally accepted

accounting principles required by the U.S. Securities

and Exchange Commission.

Meanwhile, at the request of the Federal Reserve and

other U.S. banking regulators, 14 members of the

House Banking Committee have introduced a Bank

Examination Report Protection Act, which would make

it all but impossible to find out what U.S. regulators

know about the banks they supervise. And Fed

Chairman Alan Greenspan has crusaded against a

proposed addition to the generally accepted accounting

principles, supported by the SEC, that would compel

U.S. banks to recognize in their published reports the

fair value of their holdings of derivatives.

Perilous State

Asian governments and central banks created the

current mess by concealing the perilous state of their

banks. For seven years, Japan has encouraged banks

to carry as good assets old mortgages on real estate

now worth perhaps a quarter of face value. Korean

multinationals, known as chaebol, have been

permitted to conceal their subsidiaries' losses by

shifting loans from one set of books to another. In

Thailand, banks were allowed to carry loans at par

until the borrowers hadn't paid interest on them for

more than a year.

These Asian governments and central banks were

midwives to a fearsome cadre of what the economist

Edward Kane calls zombie banks. Such walking dead

devour their own good assets every night, and thanks

to the magic of compound interest they become

exponentially more insolvent, like U.S.

savings-and-loans in the 1980s. But governments and

central banks vouched for the zombie banks, which

were able to keep borrowing dollars from banks in

other countries.

The dollar-denominated loans are devastating the

Asian markets. Debtors have to sell the local currency

to acquire dollars so they can pay their debts. As the

local currency declines in value, debtors ( and local

banks ) must find ever-increasing quantities of it to

service their debts. This can become a death spiral for

the local economy. If good information about what was

going on in these countries had been available, many

of these loans would not have been made. Honest

Asian businesses would not be ravaged by declining

exchange rates and rising interest rates, and the world

would not have to fear further collapse in Asia.

There is a systemic fault here, because the mixture of

bank loans and portfolio investments on which the

Asian countries have relied to fund their economic

development is inherently unstable. Banks accumulate

information and keep it for their own exclusive use.

They are not and never have been risk takers; they

made their living historically by their possession of

information not available to others, which they could

afford to gather because they spread the cost of

gathering it over a number of loans. Secrecy makes

sense for banks, especially in an environment where

an ever-increasing fraction of their earnings comes

from trading, and the habits of secrecy hang on.

Markets, by contrast, cannot survive without

transparency. Markets are an inherently less expensive

way to price and raise capital, in part because they

use generally available information. Banks

themselves, once funded from public deposits, now

rely on markets to provide most of their lendable

resources. Companies get access to capital markets

when they grow large enough that information about

them is widespread. In an age of information

technology, small companies become publicly traded

much sooner than they once did, and large companies

find banks superfluous. As Dennis Weatherstone

observed while he was chairman of J.P. Morgan, we

live in a time when capital markets dominate credit

markets.

But banks retain and secrete information that markets

need, not least information about the banks

themselves, their sources of profits, lending policies,

asset quality and location, and hedging activities. To

the extent that bankers confuse or mislead the

market, both the market and the banks will be

susceptible to severe disruption when an unexpected

truth comes to light.

The danger is greatest in loans from one bank to

another, especially across cultural and linguistic

boundaries. Banks themselves consider these

interbank loans to be very safe, because ordinarily no

government will permit its banks to go belly-up in

public. Regulators consider the interbank loans very

safe, because they believe the banks making such

huge unsecured loans will police each other, refusing

to lend to doubtful institutions. The Bank for

International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, the

central bankers' central bank, gives interbank lending

among the banks of the developed world ( including

Korea ) a risk weighting only 20% of that assessed

against a loan to any nonbank enterprise. But

interbank loans are not only unsafe ( which means that

banks will pull these lines fast from any borrower that

seems to be getting in trouble ) ; they are also a

transmission belt for anxiety and for loss of faith in

the financial system.

Banking regulators hate to abdicate their power as

sole evaluator of banks' assets because it is the real

source of their authority--and gives them, they

believe, opportunities to use denial as a weapon

against panic. As the Japanese Ministry of Finance can

attest, however, government assertions that

everything is really all right carry little weight today.

Market discipline already exists. The market will value

the bank--as an investment, as a place to keep

deposits, as a borrower--according to the information

on the street, which may or may not be more accurate

than what the banking regulators put out.

Transparency builds confidence; secrecy creates fear.

Ultimately, the way to maintain safety and soundness

in banks is to reduce what they used to call window

dressing and give the investing, depositing and

borrowing public much more of the inside information

management uses to run the bank. William Isaac,

retiring as chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance

Corp. in 1984, urged Congress to legislate publication

of the front, factual section of bank examiners'

reports. Eleven years later, the Shadow Regulatory

Committee of academics who study the Fed urged

publication of the entire reports. New Zealand has

already established such a regulatory regime, and

something like it was clearly in the mind of Britain's

Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown a few

months ago when he took banking supervision away

from the Bank of England and turned it over to the

new disclosure-oriented Securities and Investments

Board.

Eventually, disclosure and market discipline will

replace banking regulators in the U.S., too, but right

now the wrong lessons are being learned. Old-timers

in Japan, Korea and the U.S. believe that if only the

secrets could have been kept, the banks and their

supervisors would have found some way to avoid the

mess. Thus the new bill to protect all examination

reports from all interrogators, and the Fed's opposition

to more revealing accounting standards.

In 1983, prodded by the SEC and the late Sen. John

Heinz ( R., Pa. ) , banking regulators reluctantly ordered

the big international banks to reveal country by

country their major foreign loan exposures. The

equivalent today would be a requirement that banks

post in some public place--the Internet would do

fine--a detailed list of their daily interbank exposures.

No Presumption of Safety

There are limits to what such a rule could accomplish.

Derivatives traders could easily invent a legal

instrument that would permit banks to lend to other

banks without appearing to do so. But such

instruments would have to be priced on a daily basis,

and would not carry the presumption of safety the

governments now give the interbank market.

The genius of capitalism is that markets, not

regulations or politics, force the admission and

correction of mistakes. For a global economy to work

properly, investors and their advisers must be able to

beam their searchlights far deeper into the recesses of

the financial institutions than their regulators now

allow. No doubt the interbank market would shrink in

the glare--perhaps all the way down to its historic

function of facilitating trade and payments. But some

loss of financial articulation and efficiency would be a

small price to pay to reduce systemic invitation to the

chaos we see today.

Mr. Mayer is a guest scholar at the Brookings

Institution and author of The Bankers: The Next

Generation ( Dutton, 1997 ) .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:25
Selby U>(Heuvos) ID#287207:
While you guys congratulate each other I'm off for a 5 km walk along the north shore of Lake Ontario and its about - 15 in the sun.

Best wishes to all for the New Year. Next to the Coronation Street chat page this is the most entertaining site on the Web.

I advise all Flag Resources shareholders to buckle up for the first couple of weeks of January and hope that the acceleration we are going to experience is UP.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:25
John Disney__A U>(Mr Nasty strikes again) ID#24140:

lgb - Your huevos posting was offensive. I think you owe

vronsky an apology - where are all those Gentlemanly types that

scream for respect - respect when others take exception to the useless garbage you post . Are you all the same person

you are one sick puppy.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:22
SDRer__A U>(Heads Up? or duck and cover?) ID#286249:
From World Money Analyst Special Alert, January 1998
Wang Jun, son of China's late vice-president, Wang Zhen...most powerful businessman in China...through his CITIC banking arm ( the only large
bank in China not forced to lend money to losing state-owned enterprises ) ; Wang has orchestrated the largest, most rapid buy-up of US Treasury bonds in history.

Within months China will be the third largest holder of US debt in the world--surpassing Germany, and closing in on the UK and Japan.

Then there is a chart which shows how the US market climb has gone hand-in-hand with the buying of US Treasuries by foreign central banks. In fact, there is a 97% correlation between them.




Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:22
LGB U>(@ STrad Master.....you have a way with words) ID#269409:
Prosperous New Year to ya Strad. You're the only guy I know who can upbraid the ole LGB and make me feel good about it! And in keeping with your wise counsel, I have determined that in 1998, I shall indeed do my DAMNDEST to reduce egotistical, bombastic, and abrasive rhetoric to an absolute minimum, whilst enjoying the group, learning, and expositing views.

Now, buy some Silver and prosper Strad!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:18
DJ U>(Binhex) ID#215208:
For those who received John Disney's spreadsheet in binhex format, and don't know what to do with it, you need a utility called binhex to decode it. You might be able to find it on the web. I may be able to send it to you, if our e-mails are compatible. Let me know if you want me to try and send it to you. nimsd@aol.com

To use it, drop the target file into the directory where you have binhex located. To use binhex, just double click on it from file manager or windows explorer. It will open to a window allowing you to navigate to the file you want to decompress. You click on the file, and it is done, almost instantly. The decoded file will be located in the same directory.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:16
farfel U>(Oh, baby, my proboscis is tingling again...GOLD SHORT SQUEEZE ALERT) ID#28585:
I woke up this morning with my nose feeling pretty numb,
Then I opened the drapes and felt the sweet warmth of the sun,
In no time at all, my nose started tingling,
And my heart got to singing,
I know the gold short squeeze has already begun!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:15
LGB U>(1997 Huevos award) ID#269409:
I propose that Vronsky be given the 1997 Heuvos award for having the Huevos to shamelessly promote a Gold Investment site that promotes the most monolithic, one sided view of Gold investing possible, while completely failing to report the rtuly important stories in Gold.

You know, like the horrendous crash since 1980 that makes 1929 look like a picnic, the 1997 Worst mutual fund performance of the year numbers re Gold funds, etc.

I think a REAL Gold analyst site would give both views and all views. For GoldEagle and it's analysts to attack the mainstream media's bias re Gold, and for GoldEagle to claim to bring expertise into the area of Gold investing without giving a balanced presentation, takes REAL Heuvos.

Then of course when analysts that post Vronsky's site are questioned on matters relevant to Gold, economic historical facts, etc. they eschew addressing such issues in favor of personal attacks on the one bringing the questions. A great cowardly tactic, maybe, but one that still deserves the Heuvos award...

A

Congratulations Vronsky.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:14
Strad Master U>(HAPPY NEW YEAR!) ID#250297:
TO ALL KITCOITES - LURKERS AND POSTERS ALIKE: I want to wish everyone a glorioulsy Happy New Year! May all positions ( long, short, or flat ) make tons of money, and may abundant Health, Happiness, and Peace pervade every corner of your lives!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:13
tolerant1 U>(John Disney) ID#31868:
Let us speak of these things, Mandela's whore, and focus of American Media, prostitutes all, ever changing prices. The day of reconciliation will not be anything written, nor thought of. Progress is a dream without masters, nor cavil boundaries.

I am not the whelp of that heartless appliance which preys upon the fear of others who desire to expand and learn. Those eyes enlivened, wide open seeking a world of peace. To them I lend a hand, or more probably, I extend one hoping for more than I am.

Upon the sack of the wall I become an anteater, rooting out the pernicious parasite. Hold me back, I can be reasoned with, just wait until my gums stop bleeding, I seek and crave the need to return to mine own innocence. Do not forget that when the battle begins anew.

My last breath would be given defending freedom of children so that they may never learn hate, or subjugation.










Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:13
Spud Master U>(NJ ... (and the PBS tv program on the market last night)) ID#273112:
Ignore Karlito's information as money BS.

You can't eat information.

You can't run a hydrogen fuel cell on information.

You can't wash clothes in information.

You can't build a house out of information.

You can't fill-up a gasoline tank on a car with information.

Until nanotechnology makes matter free, we material people are going

to need matter, i.e. gold, platinum, corn, wheat, washing machines, etc. Go out and make your own inflation index of the top 30 to 40 things you buy EACH WEEK. OPEN YOUR EYES. STOP BELIEVING WHAT WE ARE TOLD, AND GET THE REALITY OF FACTS FOR YOURSELF & COMPARE.

I did. Inflation in these necessary weekly consumables is running 11% in North Texas, USA. We are being slowly boiled alive, while being told by Wall Street types in four-piece Italian suits how great it is.

Don't be a ) dazzled or b ) deceived by the likes of LGB/Karlito/EB - these guys ( ? ) make their living off the scraps of the manipulators of public opinion. It's meta-crime.

Speaking of which, did anyone watch the USA Public Television program last night on The Stock Market? My God! Talk about true believers! Putting their life savings in the markets, dreaming of dream houses, children's colledge fees ... with no conception that they could be wiped out. Hong Kong markets run by twenty-year-olds with no real experience of market crashes ( well, I supose they do now! ) ... I could only shake my head sadly and ponder their ultimate fate, while Wall Street brokers grin with flatulent sincerity on the way to the bank with these people's money...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:10
Strad Master U>(Ramadan) ID#250297:
TO ALL OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH: The Holy month of Ramadan has started and to all of you I wish that it be filled with meaning and piety. We who live in the Judeo/Christian world often forget the third of the great Monotheistic religions. It is an unfortunate oversight that ought to be corrected.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:08
Avalon U>(Why Secrecy is Bad for Banking) ID#254269:

Things are pretty slow here at my office today so I was just browsing through yesterdays' ( 12/30 ) WSJ and there is an essay by Martin Mayer about WSIBFB. Mr. Mayer is a guest scholar at the Brookings Institution..
The article is too long for me to retype here but the subheading is
When bankers confuse or mislead the market, both the market and the banks will be susceptible to severe disruption when an unexpected truth comes to light. It's a very interesting read. Does anyone has a way to post it electronically ?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:06
Strad Master U>(MENSCH OF THE YEAR!!!) ID#250297:
MIKE SHELLER: I, want to second the motion for your nomination as Kitco Mensch of the Year! That you constantly endure LGB's attacks with such equanimity is a sign of your sterling character - no doubt forged by the heat of REAL battle, which is a horror that those of us who've never experienced it can only dimly imagine. As having been one who often has mediated between LGB and his slowly moving targets, I feel a strange sort of kinship with him. I sense that f we just keep posting to him the way you did, his rhetoric will eventually will come to reflect his better nature more consistently. ( Sorry to talk about you. LGB, as if you weren't here, but it is the fastest and most effficient way I have of geting the idea across at the moment. ) There are definite signs of his having mellowed, as his vitriolic, egotistical postings have diminished - albeit a tad too slowly for my taste. Nevertheless, as you know, we all have the capacity to reinvent ourselves at any moment and maybe your posting and the confluence of the New Year will bring about a positive change. LGB is a diamond in the rough while you, sir, have been faceted, polished, and set to best advantage. Happiest of New Years to you and your dear wife!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:06
Dr. R U>(Panda - an apology) ID#268421:
Please forgive the way that post to you was worded. What I meant to say
was that I was shocked that the glasses actually cost $269 i.e. had risen so sharply in price. Inflation rears its head in subtle ways.

Another example - pseudofed an antihystamine for sinuses, used to sell
for $4.95 per 100 at the local pharmacy. The price crept up regularly
until it reached $11.95 about 3 months ago. Suddenly all bottles of 100
count disapeared and were replace with packages of 24 tablets, each in
a little plastic bubble. The price? $5.95 per 24 count ( or approximately
$24 per 100. WOW - a 100% price increase.

Fortunately an internet search revealed a pharmacy who still sells the
product for $2.49 per 100. Hopefully you can find a more reasonably
priced source for your eyeglasses.

Again, my apology to you.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:06
Allen(USA) U>(Mr.Mick@NonLinearSystems) ID#246224:
Would you like to join a little group of us looking into tools to analize the chaotic behaviour of these markets? Email me at polloa@webtv.net

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:06
LGB U>(@ Realistic....Silver) ID#269409:
And after this nefarious midnight attack, what do you think the activity will be like on Monday in the pits?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:03
Allen(USA) U>(Mr.Mick @ Another Layer) ID#246224:
It will buy them some time. An essential if you need to get your US$25 Bln ocean liner into harbor to weather the monsoon.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 12:02
LGB U>(@ Sheller, .......re your AM post...New Years resolutions) ID#269409:
Mr. Mike, while I had intended to wait until tomorrow to implement my New Years Resolutions, ( one of which is to exercise more restraint in my rhetoric on Kitco ) , I have decided to put those resoluitions into force immediately. This being the case, no fiery retorts from this quarter, just a restrained but honest response. Your well reasoned post is fine, but I believe you have mis-characterized my statements.

Firstly, any critical statements I've made about Country haters is not in reference to those who constructively critisize their Govt. and it's policies. As citizens it's our job to do so, when we can effect positive change. In a democracy, it's a civic duty.

My criticism was directed at the Puetz's of the world, who can make statements like I have no loyalty to my country, and go unrebuked by the others on this site.

Certainly I take strong issue with your theory that one needs to have faced the horrors of the battlefield in wartime, in order to be a patriot. Or that one can't appreciate what this country's constitution is all about, can't read or understand history, can't appreciate their heritage, their father and grandfathers counsel, or the sacrifices made by others, without having personally taken up arms.

It's true that none of us can have a genuinely deep understanding of what it's like to make the sacrifices those men have made, unless we faced them ourselves, on this I agree. Only one who has lost life and limb and seen their brother and friend do so, will ever truly understand that.

However, I can CERTAINLY appreciate the sacrifices those men made to build this great country. I can certainly appreciate the fact that we in this generation, myself included, have had life easy in comparison to our forefathers. For me to benefit from what they have done, and have no appreciation for it, would be the REAL travesty my friend.

In considering what it took to get here, If I was to make such a heinous statement as I have no loyalty to my country, now that would be TRULY dispicable.

But in fact I DO have loyalty to my country, and an intense appreciation for what we have been given. Critisize the political snakes, yes, work for positive change, yes, try to make improvements, yes....but let's never lose sight of the fact that this U.S. has been the greatest and most successful experiment in democracy of all time. I will not respect those who would spit on it, whether from outside or within.

Both our democracy, and our economy, have provided more strength, more innovation, more prosperity, to more PEOPLE, than any Government or society in history. We would all do well to remember that fact, AND to remember what it took to build it..this holds true whether we've lost limbs in wartime or not.

Our consitutional forefathers would NOT roll over in their graves if they could review the society of today. They'd look at the U.S. position in the world, the strength, the accomplishments, the wealth and prosperity, the opportunity, the breakthroughs in science, medicine, and technology, the generous assistance to third world nations, the improvements made in areas of equality, and they'd be proud of the seed they planted. Very proud.

Call me naive and shallow if you like, but I don't need to personally go to medical school for 22 years in order to appreciate what cardiologists have done to save my life. And it'd be pretty damned foolish of me to trash them for their efforts, by embracing snake oil cures after they've already demonstarted their proficiency in tehir craft.

Wishing you a prosperous New Year, filled with new revelations....

LGB

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:59
NJ U>(DJ. Here's the url.) ID#352177:
http://quotewatch.com/charts/?symbol=GCG8&range=intra

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:57
farfel U>(SOROS unveils new book entitled, Buy My Bonds, You Suckers!) ID#28585:
I once knew a fella named Soros
An economics intellectual with a disposition quite morose
He spoke of deflation
And got great elation
Selling bonds to the lemmings who bought his Bull-Compost.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:55
NJ U>(DJ) ID#352177:
The url did not work quite right. Type in GCG8 for symbol, then click Intraday.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:50
NJ U>(spot) ID#352177:
DJ: would Feb gold chart help with the stumble? http://quotewatch.com/charts/?symbol=GCG8&range=intra

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:47
OLD GOLD U>(Gold and Gold Stocks) ID#238295:
Still too soon to be sure, but the current action in gold and gold stocks is beginning to remind me of early 1993 when bullion made a new low after the XAU had risen 20% from the trough.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:44
vronsky U>(JAMES DINES LATEST ON GOLD -- 17-Year Gold Chart) ID#426220:

Long-time veteran precious metals analyst starts his report with a Point & Future chart of LONDON GOLD, going all the way back to 1980. It clearly shows a TRIPLE-BOTTOM at about the $280 level ( 1982, 1985 and the present ) . The last two times it reached Dines’ “Buy Zone,” the yellow zoomed to the $500 area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/dines122297.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:43
EB U>(one more thing......forgive me.......) ID#22956:
BART KITNER......THE MAN, THE LEGEND.

THANKS FOR ALL THIS. YOU ARE THE KING OF KITCO...FOREVER!!!

HAVE A HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.

**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$***$$$$$$$$$$$$$~~~~~~~~~~~*********

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:42
Realistic U>(Latest about Silver) ID#410194:
We just learned that a European hedge fund deliberately attempted to drive down prices of Silver ( and succeeded! ) in Access trade ( night trading ) taking advantage of extremely thin market conditions.

As a result, March Silver tumbled as low as 580 ( ! ) a few minutes after the New-York trading opened at 8:25 am this morning. Of course, many many stops have been taken out.

Weak longs ( and some stronger ones ) are now out of this market, that's for sure.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:35
NJ U>(Information) ID#352177:
Karlito : Your 09:43 of Dec30.

Help me understand your position.

You say that gold will be demonetized and has already been replaced by 'information'. That all countries with a floating currency must operate by the information standard which is much more rigorous.

With this you are at odds with George Soros, whose article in Financial Times was kindly reproduced by nomercy in his 8:21 post today. Soros is asking for an international regulatory agency to prevent future South Koreas. This because currency traders work with inadequate information and operate as a herd in search of quick profit. He does expect the next shoe to fall, most probably in China.

I also have a problem in accepting that governments and corporations would open up their confidential matters for scrutiny by an international 'information' standard.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:33
SDRer__A U>(Going forward, 'cause we can't go back...) ID#288155:
FT Opinion
Greenspan's challenge
WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 31 1997

When the gods place a man on a pedestal, they usually do so in the
comfortable expectation that time and chance will shortly send him crashing to earth. So it should be with more than a little nervousness that Alan Greenspan,the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, looks out tonight on his and the world's prospects for 1998.

The next 12 months will present perhaps his toughest challenge yet. With
greater uncertainty than ever about the outlook for growth, he faces an
unusually sharp divergence of economic and financial risks - between the
competing perils of inflation and recession, a stockmarket crash and a
dangerously over-inflated bubble.

http://www.ft.com/hippocampus/v74aa6.htm

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:26
Crystal Ball U>(@ Tortfeasor) ID#287367:
As a physician, I am frequently asked interesting questions. Recently I was asked if having anal sex can result in pregnancy. I replied: It is very rare, but when it does happen the baby always turns out to be a lawyer. ;- )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:16
Crystal Ball U>(@ Colleen) ID#287367:
Happy New Year! May the road rise up to greet you and may you also have the wind at your back, and in your sails, and enough to fill Richard Branson's balloon several times over, as long as LGBoob keeps blowing hot air... ;- )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:14
vronsky U>(The Year Ahead by the Astrological Investor) ID#426220:

Mike Sheller kicks off the New Year with both a warning list of potential hotspots around the world, as well as his campy tribute to magazine horoscopes ( HEY-HEY, check out what the stars hold for YOU in 1998 ) . However, the serious business comes first, as he takes a look at some national horoscopes ( from Cambodia to the USA ) for some clues to future activities, which may affect the financial markets:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/astro123197.html


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:12
Gusto Oro U>(PMs) ID#377235:
So the current volatility in the PMs is due to expiring December futures contracts? Barrons suggests no shortage of silver?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:05
vronsky U>(1997 MENSCH AWARD) ID#426220:

I propose Mike Sheller for the 1997 MENSCH AWARD for his - among other things - OUTSTANDINGLY outstanding 07:21 post to LGB.

Mike, you are a real Mensch!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 11:01
John Disney__A U>(Amandla - Viva ANC) ID#24140:

For High Rise

Tell me about it - US sanctions against South Africa along with

the UK and US press campaign against RSA were instrumental in installing my great leader in power. I hear he has charm, wit, wisdom,

humanity, etc and I await his possible bodily ascension to higher

places. Winnie has been described as a saint and mother of a

nation. I keep looking for these qualities to surface but has never

seen any sign of them - except maybe on the rugby field for a moment.

Gee - I cant believe you're dissapointed in the leadership of my

adopted land.

Frankly, I'll be VERY glad to see Mandela go - his heart has NEVER been

with the west. It's with the old time African leaders and the past-over

reds like Ghadaffi and Castro.

However China will be a big market for the g5/g6 155 groundpounder - as

will as the rsa attack helicopter systems. Cheap and good.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:58
Mr. Mick U>(Have to go get my teeth drilled..........) ID#345321:
later.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:56
tolerant1 U>(Colleen) ID#31868:
In this year love shares the mantle with you. And love is now gleeful, I am tenaciously resolute in this belief. Upon my grandmother's eye's are blessing's of happiness for your family. Sacred.

Namaste'


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:50
EB U>(......Ginseng Ted......and all others.......and stuff........) ID#22956:
It'll put lead in yer pencil mate.............go gold..... ( sputter ) ...

all other kitcoites and LGB too.....Happy and Prosperous New Year! I would like to thank everyone on this sight who has contributed info. I had a HELL-O-YEAR and much of my duckies came because I read kitco.

Special thanks to Irvine-Boy ( RJ ) . I made a 'killing' because of you. You opened my clouded eyes to the PM's. I still owe you one.....but I'll keep the Lexus...actually I'm gonna buy a Chevy instead ;- ) .

Colleen - HNY to you as well. Thanks for the kind thoughts. Keep visiting and posting in '98.

MikeS - you da man!! Bryant Park is waiting...

sas - I like your math.....I came up with similar figures. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt ( the nature of my particularly nice and sometimes ugly beast ) . Speaking of Beasts....how are things in the Kong as in Hong...

CB - you can have him now. I'm done.

D.A. - who will get that winky-dink? The battle will resume in '98. HNY! Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock....the gold-bug fell off the clock....klunk.

ALL - on the subject of Eyeglasses ( thanks Panda ) . Do not forget to use up your 'flex-plan' dollars for glasses or other medical stuff. Use it or lose it!!!!!

away...to the grind

Éßblowingthehorntonight

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:48
DJ U>(Spot prices) ID#215208:
MoReGold - Thanks, but I have that one. I thought you were quoting spot prices. Anyone have a source for spot prices? Without the visibility of Bart's 24-hour charts, I feel like I am stumbling around like a blind man, with his arms outstretched feeling for clues as to where he is.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:47
wert U>(CARL RE:POST) ID#243250:
Carl: PERFECT..and Happy New Year to you sir...regards

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:43
John Disney__A U>(Keep your eye on the sparrow) ID#24140:

to all - gold is going UP in terms of silver - ratio is 48.5 off a

low of about 46.5.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:42
Mr. Mick U>(HighRise - don't even get me started on Clinton.........) ID#345321:
I can't print what I think about him, and the polls said last night that he was the most respected man in America! HAH! I can't believe it.
Yes, it appears that America is being set up for something big. The rats ( leaders ) seem to be uninterested in our particular brand of whoredom, and are seeking other countries to love.
I hope you are prepared for the inevitable downturn........

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:42
Mr. Mick U>(HighRise - don't even get me started on Clinton.........) ID#345321:
I can't print what I think about him, and the polls said last night that he was the most respected man in America! HAH! I can't believe it.
Yes, it appears that America is being set up for something big. The rats ( leaders ) seem to be uninterested in our particular brand of whoredom, and are seeking other countries to love.
I hope you are prepared for the inevitable downturn........

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:40
John Disney__A U>( A great post - nice to end the year on) ID#24140:
for Mike - what can I say - your 07:21 to LGB was outstanding.

I hope that LGB can comprehend it - I really do.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:38
Y2KBug__A U>(Cause of 1980 POG rise) ID#234311:
Being a clueless newcomer, would someone post the reason ( specualtion if necessary ) for the meteoric rise in the price of gold in 1980? A curious question on my part, and I am trying to see if there are any parallels to the current situation.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:37
HighRise U>(Mr. Mick) ID#401460:
Let us review some of this :

Russia is broke so we have to loan them $, they back and cut a deal with Iran and back Iraq, now they loan our money to China for the contruction of another Chernoble ( sp ) - a plutonium plant.

Is the US really that dumb or is Clinton funnelling US$ to China. I would guess that Tyson Chicken is on the way to China.

Did you here of the Chinese team in, I think it was South Africa,that dissassembled a Nuclear Plant and shipped it home.

Mandella visit to Lybia. ( sp )
The big meeting in Iran - included the Saudis.
Russia and Iran cut a deal on the Caspian Sea.

And did we really sell a super computer to the Russian military?





Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:34
The Hatt U>(Thin Trading Massive Short Position in GOLD!) ID#294232:
The light trading in gold has made it very easy for the shorts to control
this market and although I would rather of seen some strength at this
juncture, the retracement or perhaps even further testing of the lows
are in order. The positive is that it gives us more time to further
position ourselves at unrealistically low prices. A retesting of the lows
will send panic into the gold stocks and they will quickly become over-
sold. Buying at the bottom is most pleasurable in hindsite however when
you stand up to the pump when no one else wants the gas it becomes some-
what nerve wrecking. The picture has never been more clearer so fill my
tank with au please!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:33
Mr. Mick U>(Mr. Soros just doesn't get it - IMHO........) ID#345321:
Using terms like equilibrium and macroeconomic balance lend themselves to a concept of a linear economic system, and we have a non-linear, dynamic system. More akin to the systems described in nature and chaos theory.
I think he also overestimates bureaucrats' ability to make sound financial decisions.
What is another layer of bureaucracy going to buy us?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:31
vronsky U>(THE ALCHEMY OF FINANCIAL CHECKMATE by “Marcus Angelicus”) ID#426220:

PART - II, January 1, 1998

The author entitles the second part of his profound treatise as: “The Alchemist Theory: Gold is Dead.”

“Are we witnessing the culmination of the alchemist's dream: that a fiat currency, whether made of paper or electrons, has become
not only as good as gold ( Alan Greenspan ) but has become a
perfect substitute?”

He examines the pros, cons and feasibility of a One Global Currency. It’s an intellectual exercise and very ‘heady’ stuff.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/markus123197.html



Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:27
a.j. U>(A query to all: Puetz's statement re: U.S. hatred?) ID#256201:
I missed that one. Did he really say such a thing or was what he said misinterpreted?
I offer the definition of Patriot I devised in the early 70s when I published a small news letter.
A PATRIOT is one who LOVES his Country more than he fears ITS government!
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution permits Mr. Puetz as well as the l'il garrulous boy ( lgb ) to say anything for which he is willing to take responsibility.
Anybody have an explanation for the red page which came up as result of clicking on WST's link?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:24
MoReGoLd U>(@Quotes) ID#348286:
DJ: http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/Commodities/

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:23
colleen U>(TO ALL- Wishing you a GREAT 1998) ID#33164:

If I keep a green bough in my heart, the singing bird will come. -[Chinese Proverb]

Bart, vronsky, JTF, sharefin, Mike, Tolerant1, SDRer, Donald, Dear Aurator, Nick@C, EB, JohnD [how's your dreadful Cape weather?!] cherokee, Allen, Schippi, 6pak, Fred, Auric, panda, Earl, LGB, Steve,Haggis, Ted, Another, Chrys.Ball,and All Kitcoites I am only now getting to know-

You have shared so much of your time, knowledge and expertise with me and all others who care to participate in the last months. I have learnt so much from you all, and I thank you.

May you all get the best out of 1998- Best wishes.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:23
Mr. Mick U>(Carl - well said!) ID#345321:
Happy New Year to you and all at Kitco!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:19
HighRise U>() ID#401460:
Gold
2885
-31

Silver
5965
-220

Oil
1760
-2

Gas
2235
-45

Corn
2664
-2



Bonds / Forex

30-Year Bond
5.938 %
-0.033

10-Year Bond
5.756 %
-0.03
This may be a good indicator for one of my new year's resolutions?
Maybe I can loose some weight in 98.
3X666=1998 WOW


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:15
Realistic U>(Silver) ID#410194:
European traders flooded the very thin Silver market as soon as North American day trading has closed yesterday. Let's hope they made their profits... ( yeah, sure! )

Nothing has changed fundamentally except for the psychology of having it back below the $6 level! Will need to move back above as soon as possible.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:15
Mr. Mick U>(Donald - How could Russia pay all the back wages they owe?) ID#345321:
They have no money to pay with. Did they just create electronic fluff?
Inflating the ruble?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:14
DJ U>(Spot Prices) ID#215208:
MoReGold - Could I ask where you are finding your spot price info? Thx.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:10
MoReGoLd U>(@SILVER leading the way DOWN) ID#348286:
Gold 287.25 -3.40 -1.17% , Silver 5.96 -.20 -3.25%.
I have been watching trading closely for the last 3 days and clearly Silver
has lead the downturn, dragging Gold down with it.
Same happening today.
It is kind of curious that the PM's are being pushed down on little news and low volume for the end of the year. If I ever smelt something artificial this is it......

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:07
colleen U>(Message to MIKE SHELLER) ID#33164:
You, Sir, are a VERY special man.

My best regards

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:05
Carl U>(Some thoughts and some thanks) ID#333131:
One of my blessings this year has been the discovery of this site. It doesn’t rank up there with the really important things like the birth of a healthy grandchild or the remittance of one of my children’s chronic disease for a while this year. These are the things of real substance in my life, but this group of inquiring minds have enriched my life with your mutterings, meanderings and musings as well as the overwhelming informative stream of information/conjecture/speculation.

I thank all of you and I resolve to make a better effort to repay your contributions to me by contributing something beyond my feeble offerings this last year. This will be difficult to do since most of you are much better versed in the issues on this site than I am, which is why I stayed. But I’m growing with your help and may perhaps be of some help to others here yet.

A word on diversity. The behavior of groups teaches us that when someone says “look there”, the attention of the group looks “there” and is apt to miss the most obvious things in front of them. Questions of civility aside, it is in all our interests to have people involved who refuse to “go along” with the others. As to civility, my own experience is that some of the people I have learned the most from were the most unpleasant people imaginable who seemed barely capable of managing basic human interchange without giving offense. I have found it helpful to look for flowers among the thorns.

Thank you to all and I wish you all a happy, healthy and if possible, a prosperous New Year.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:02
POLARBEAR U>(HAPPY NEW YEAR!!) ID#183109:
HAPPY NEW YEAR FELLOW KITCOVITES!! 1998 HERE IN JAPAN.

WISHING EVERYONE A PROFITABLE YEAR.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:01
D.A. U>(re.silver.supply.and.demand) ID#7568:
Blonde:

I have read several of the supply / demand reports put out by various analytical groups.

Here's a summary of CPM group's early 1996 report.

http://www.cpmgroup.com/survey96launch.html

It is interesting to note that the inventory decline on comex has been underway for some years now. Up until recently it is highly likely that this silver has been consumed as opposed to hoarded. The most recent drawdowns in inventory are likely speculative in nature but that is reasonable given the amount of supply remaining.

There is nothing about this recent decline that smacks of a change of heart by the players. Ask yourself, if you had built a significant speculative hoard of silver with the intent to squeeze the market would you try to liquidate your position in this fashion? Selling a few million ounces on the globex during perhaps the least liquid market position one could hope to find does not seem like someone carefully trying to exit a long position. It is most certainly a raid by another player who feels that technically based longs can be driven out by a quick strike down. The people behind the squeeze may be quite happy to see this action and not interfere. It just allows them to increase their position at lower prices. When this selling runs its course the next leg up will begin. Given the accelerating rate of inventory decline I think it will be the climactic one. I believe the players are looking for a palladium type ending where the squeeze is successful in that a new 'base' level is established for the commodity. In this way they can sell their metal slowly into the market. Before the new equilibrium price is established we will in all probability see an overshoot of some magnitude. In the palladium squeeze the overshot was about 25%. If the new equilibrium price is around $7-8 then the top could be somewhere around $10.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 10:00
vronsky U>(STRENGTH OF MARKET IS ILLUSORY by the Black Box Analyst) ID#426220:

Flight Capital Fuels 15-Year-Old Bull Market

Although Rick Ackerman’s article is a couple of week’s old, it provides some interesting insights to the US market and world problems, which undoubtedly will have an impact in 1998.

With Asia's financial markets festering seemingly beyond remedy, Japan mired in near-depression, and the locomotive economy of South Korea in danger of seizing, why has Wall Street barely flinched?
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/ackerman123197.html


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:57
DJ U>(PM Spot Info) ID#215208:
Seems Kitco has totally expired as a source of current spot prices. Anyone have another link to spot prices for all 4 PM's?


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:43
tolerant1 U>(A HAPPY NEW YEAR) ID#31868:
When I skewer the head of Camdesuss on a fence post.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:40
Karlito99__A U>(Miro @5:20 on the Information Standard) ID#78116:
You wrote:

Look at the definition of standard:

An acknowledged measure of comparison for quantitative and qualitative value; criterion; norm; An object that under specified conditions defines , represents, or records the magnitude of a unit.

Karlito's response:

I would wholeheartedly agree with this definition. That is precisely what the information standard delivers in the currency markets. On a minute-to-minute basis we know the exact value of any unit of currency. Its not fixed by government bureaucrats or held constant by the manipulations of central banks. The value of any currency is set by the global market, which, as I stated early, is a much more demanding standard than gold because the feedback mechanisms built into it a larger, more obvious and practically instanaeous.

Then you wrote:

Now, would you please elaborate how this rigorous information standard with internet being its heart works for monetary units? Is a stupid statement of prime minister worth $1US? $1.50US, $2.50DM? How much is worth overprinting of money by treasury department? Over borrowing? How do you value ( or adjust ) quality and correctness of information? Etc.. etc..

Karlito's response:
It depends.... we are dealing with an extremely complex system where there are a lot of prevailing factors. There will be times when a stupid statement may account for nothing, at other times it may be significant. What matters in the long run, however, is the quality of economic policy. Good policy will be rewarded, as has been the case with the dollar in recent years, and bad policy will be punished as we have seen with the currencies of the once Asian Tigers.

Then you wrote:

No my friend we don’t have information standard. Yes, we have a technology and infrastructure which can deliver and process the information much faster but that does not constitute a monetary standard!

Karlito's response:
But of course it does. It is setting the value of every major currency in world as we speak. What's more, its automatic and irreversible. What country could possibly reclaim its currency back today? Once you have allowed your currency to float, there is no turning back. Just like everything else, once it is informationalized, it can't go back. Banking has become informationalized, retailing is too, stock trading is going the way of bits. Anything that can be informationalized will be. It may not be for the best, but it is happening and happening very rapidly.


Then you wrote:

In my many years in this industry is worked in many sectors of our society which heavily depends on information technology ( defense, intelligence, finance, government, private business, genetic research, etc. ) Most of them recognize that information theory and technology is essential to their business, supports their technological process, however, none of them would claim that information replaces their main functional process.

That's not been my experience at all. My experience has been that technology coupled with the appropriate business strategy, transforms the business. Banking has been transformed by technology. No one goes to a bank anymore to get cash, you go to an ATM. Schwab does half their business on the internet, the day will come when no one uses a broker to buy a stock, you will use a pc, or some info appliance. Retailing is being transformed as well, ordering once took hours of a buyers time with plenty of mistakes, now for many products its automatic and seamless, something gets bought in the store and it triggers an order to the manufacturer. Warfare has been transformed. 100 years ago it was the soldier on the front line and the civilians took cover. Today you could argue that its the soldiers who are covered and the civilians who are on the front line. In fact, its hard to find an industry today that isn't being transformed by technology and the informationalization of their business.


Then you wrote:
E.g., a few years back I was involved with Human Genome project, had a privilege to meet some top scientists in genetic research. There is no doubt that without information technology we would not be able to make a progress we did. However, information technology and standards will not replace DNA and nor will it determine human behavior or health. ( though there are ill attempts to use it that way by business entities - e.g. insurance companies )

Karlito's response:

Information technology probably won't replace dna in our lifetimes, I am not sure I would agree with that statement for all time. Such technology has radically changed human behavior and health.

I rarely go to my office anymore because of technology, as one small example. I used to talk to my broker at least once a week, sometimes more often, I never do that. Technology has the potential of changing just about everything. One of my favorite museums in the world is Greenfield Village in Dearborn Michigan. We may create similar villages in the future for people to live in who can not or do not want to live with the technology of the future.


Then you wrote:

Being in information engineering field for so many years it disappoints me so much when I see casting information theory into the new panacea role where information age, information superhighway, etc. is suppose to replace most of the existing values. It’s done without any understanding what information technology is about, and many times it does more damage than good. Unfortunately, the most abuses of IT role I see in business area where we waste money with claims that IT will take care of all our problems without having a clear understanding what is it we are trying to achieve.

Karlito's response:

I never said IT was a panecea, and would most definitely agree that it is not. But it does change things, sometimes for the better, occassionally for the worse. But change it will bring.

I too am amazed at the lack of understanding of IT at senior levels of large organizations, and the desire not to know coupled with a willingness to believe that all will turn out for the best. IT then becomes a crutch for not thinking about the business, because you are spending so much time thinking about IT.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:40
HighRise U>(WSF ) ID#401460:
You have got that right - also Fish, Beef, etc.
Also Canadian timber import controls protect his other buddies - good name for a dog, Buddy.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:38
Barb Hughes U>(Gold & Silver) ID#20783:
Japan & Australia were closed..Fell in US Electronic markets..Also too many traders on holiday.............March silver traded as low as 5.75 overnight ( thin markets )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:27
xau5 U>(Silver) ID#201131:
I wonder whats up with silver? Somebody must have the $6 strike year end strike.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:26
Avalon U>(Good Morning All; So many overnight Kitco posts; so little time !) ID#254269:

Happy and Healthy New Year to All ! And, let's hope it's as good as we
want it to be .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:11
WSF U>(Why not?) ID#188244:
Anytime you hear chicken, think Clinton and Tyson:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/btlines/971231.btl.TYSON.FOODS.China.Deal.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:08
Barb Hughes U>(GOLD & SILVER) ID#20783:
Being kicked down...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 09:07
Blonde U>(Silver) ID#263278:
DA--what is your opinion of silver supply and demand? There was a cryptic comment in Barron's last weekend to the effect that there is no shortage of silver. Have thrown the paper out,so can't give any more specifics.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:50
Selby U>() ID#287207:
Ted: It is not the ususal practice to have a real estate agent appoint anybody's lawyer. Maybe your buyer told the agent to appoint a local lawyer.

All the BS that got posted when I was asleep reminds me of the claptrap that I had to listen to when Toronto was filled with US deserters and draft dodgers back in the early '70s. Thank heavens they have all returned to the beacon to help light the way for the rest of us.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:40
vronsky U>(The Year Ahead by the Astrological Investor) ID#427357:

Mike Sheller kicks off the New Year with both a warning list of potential hotspots around the world, as well as his campy tribute to magazine horoscopes ( HEY, check out what the stars hold for YOU in 1998 ) . However, the serious business comes first, as he takes a look at some national horoscopes ( Cambodia to the USA ) for some clues to future activities, which may affect the financial markets:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/astro123197.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:35
tolerant1 U>(concerning Soros) ID#31868:
My Godfather, yes in those terms, I never liked FREDO. What is all the fuss with you Americans or others with this cheddar eating, raincoat cloaked man..

He eats well while others starve.. There is nothing smart, new age, or clever about him. Nothing whatsoever. Get that through you skulls, please, please. George ( if that is his real name ) is not all together that bright. )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:21
Tortfeasor U>(Just When...) ID#36965:
Morning Ted. Good to read your posts. Just when I was getting able to hold my head up about being in gold and silver the metals have turned on me like a pit bull gone bad. It seems that our gold and silver bull is really the pits for the moment. Yet there is 1998 and we are yet alive. Hopefully the metals markets will rally like young stallions out of the gate. Happy New year all you fine folks.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:21
nomercy U>(G Soros (With luck,we may pull through once again)) ID#390214:
George Soros: Avoiding a breakdown

WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 31 1997

The international financial system is suffering a systemic breakdown, but we are

unwilling to acknowledge it. The abandonment of fixed exchange rate regimes

in south-east Asia touched off an unravelling process that has exceeded

everyone's worst fears, including my own. So far the large bail-out programmes

implemented by the International Monetary Fund have not worked.

Lending by the international financial institutions can never replace lending by

the private sector. The rescue packages are supposed to do their work by

re-establishing private sector confidence. Unfortunately, the currencies of the

debtor countries have continued to depreciate, aggravating their debt problems

and further undermining confidence.

The countries concerned were over-indebted to start with. The decline in their

currencies, coupled with the drastic rise in interest rates, has rendered the debt

burden even more crushing.

We are dealing with a self-reinforcing process. Once it is reversed, it could

become self-reinforcing in the opposite direction. The trouble is that the process

is still moving away from equilibrium. It is impossible to tell how far it may go.

What started out as a minor imbalance has become a much bigger one that

threatens to engulf not only international credit but also international trade. We

are on the verge of worldwide deflation.

The IMF has been criticised for applying the wrong remedy. The FT's columnist

Martin Wolf has pointed out that the deflationary effect of the debt burden is

reinforced by the deflationary effect of the IMF programmes.

Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Harvard Institute for International Development,

has carried the criticism further by blaming the IMF for insisting on punitively

high interest rates. But high interest rates are essential to prevent the currency

from going into a free fall. They have served to protect the exchange rate in

countries as diverse as Hong Kong and Russia. It is difficult to see how high

interest rates could be avoided, given the constraints under which the IMF

operates.

The problems run much deeper. But we are unwilling to face them. The

prevailing system of international lending is fundamentally flawed yet the IMF

regards it as its mission to preserve the system. This does not imply I am not a

great believer in the IMF. Without it, and without other official creditors, the

system would already have collapsed in 1982 and again in 1994-95. With luck,

we may pull through once again. But it is high time to recognise the defects of

the system and reconsider the mission of the fund.

The private sector is ill-suited to allocate international credit. It provides either

too little or too much. It does not have the information with which to form a

balanced judgement. Moreover, it is not concerned with maintaining

macro-economic balance in the borrowing countries. Its goals are to maximise

profit and minimise risk. This makes it move in a herd-like fashion in both

directions.

The excess always begins with overexpansion, and the correction is always

associated with pain. But with the intervention of the IMF and other official

lenders, the pain is felt more by the borrowers than by the creditors. That is why

overexpansion has recurred so soon after each crisis. Successive crises have,

however, become more difficult to handle.

In 1982, banks lending to Latin America were involved for their own account.

The crisis was contained by persuading them to act collectively and to extend

fresh credit to allow the debtors to service their debt. The banks did get hurt in

the process although not as much as the borrowers. Latin America lost a

decade of growth. The banks learned to minimise their own exposure and to act

as underwriters and wholesalers instead.

In the 1994-95 crisis, it was the holders of Mexican treasury bills that had to be

bailed out, mainly by the US Treasury. By 1997 some of the banks had

forgotten their painful experiences and became engaged on their own account,

particularly with South Korean companies.

The Korean crisis, as distinct from that in other south-east Asian countries,

bears some similarities to Brazil in 1982 - with one major difference: the loans

are not to Korea as a sovereign country but to individual companies. This has

made it more difficult to get the banks to act collectively.

Since we are in the middle of a crisis it is impossible to predict how it will play

itself out. There are other shoes that may yet drop, notably China. On the other

hand, Japan, which looks so bad at present, has the wherewithal to solve its

problems.

It is not too soon to start thinking how the system could be improved. Fresh

ideas on the subject could even have a beneficial effect on how the current

crisis is handled. But that would require questioning some of the most cherished

tenets of the business community. To argue that financial markets in general,

and international lending in particular, need to be regulated is likely to outrage

the financial community. Yet the evidence for just that is overwhelming.

Given the uneven distribution of savings and investment opportunities, there is a

crying need for international capital movements. But the private sector is

notoriously inefficient in the international allocation of credit. It follows that

international capital movements need to be supervised and the allocation of

credit regulated by an international authority.

This goes against the grain of prevailing wisdom. How can bureaucrats know

better than those who take risks for their own account? The answer is that the

technocrats running the proposed international authority would be charged with

maintaining macroeconomic balance, while the technocrats in charge of banks

are guided by profit considerations. Banks earn fees as well as a return on

capital and in the end they can count on the support of the official lenders,

because IMF and central bank intervention - like that in Korea - tends to favour

creditors. It would be better for the official lenders to control the risks they are

taking more directly.

I propose setting up an International Credit Insurance Corporation as a sister

institution to the IMF. This new authority would guarantee international loans for

a modest fee. The borrowing countries would be obliged to provide data on all

borrowings, public or private, insured or not. This would enable the authority to

set a ceiling on the amounts it is willing to insure. Up to those amounts the

countries concerned would be able to access international capital markets at

prime rates. Beyond these, the creditors would have to beware.

The authority would base its judgement not only on the amount of credit

outstanding, but also on the macroeconomic conditions in the countries

concerned. This would render any excessive credit expansion unlikely. The

capital of the proposed institution would consist of Special Drawing Rights. This

would render its guarantees watertight. The SDRs would not be inflationary

because they would be used only in case of default; at that time they would

replace money that had been lost.

There are many issues to be resolved. The most important is the link between

the borrowing countries and the borrowers within those countries. Special care

must be taken not to give governments discretionary power over the allocation

of credit because that could foster corrupt dictatorships. But once the need for

such an institution is recognised, the details could be worked out.

The institution can be set up only at a time when international lending is in a

state of collapse. We are now entering such a period. We can probably navigate

through it without setting up a new international authority of the sort I am

proposing. But we would be missing a great opportunity.

Moreover, the extent of the crisis could be mitigated by the prospect of an early

revival of international lending on a sounder footing. If the world is indeed

entering a deflationary period, an International Credit Insurance Corporation

could play an important role in containing its negative effects.

Happy 1998 to all goldbugs! Get Radical in '98, their con-game will end!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:17
goldhound U>(Ted @Realtor) ID#432169:
Ted,

To answer your question - no it is not common .... sounds a bit crazy to me. Usually both parties get their own respective lawyer.



Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:14
Mike Sheller U>(STUDIO R) ID#347447:
I am touched by your sentiments. I share your credo. Musicians are special people to me. Thanks.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:12
vronsky U>(JAPANESE MONETARY PROBLEMS ) ID#427357:

Noted ORACLE OF HONG KONG, Milhouse, provides yet another astute and insightful critique of the Nippon Financial Malaise. Milhouse is decidedly bearish, and feels the rapidly falling Nikkei is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better!

“In Japan, the economic recession continues relentlessly. Furthermore, major falls in the stock market appear very likely in 1998, wiping out whatever capital remains in the troubled Japanese institutions.”

“I believe there is a greater chance that the Japanese people will start accumulating GOLD to protect their substantial savings...”

Milhouse’s clear-sighted and perceptive report may be found at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/milhouse122997.html


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:07
STUDIO.R U>(@Mike Sheller...re: your 7:21) ID#93232:
I would be proud to have you as a brother...your ideals are those that we all must practice and accomplish. In my home recording studio, where songwriters often gather, I have painted on the wall this short quip....PRACTICE FOR PERFECTION...SETTLE FOR BEING HUMAN. That, in and unto itself, is a full time occupation for me. Thank you for the brave offering of your soul that you allowed us to glimpse today. I needed that.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 08:00
vronsky U>(“YEAR END MARKET REVIEW” Current Fundamentals) ID#427357:

Dr. Thomas Drake generously shares with the GOLD-EAGLE readership a synopsis of his erudite and comprehensive “YEAR END MARKET REVIEW.”

It is indeed a perceptive and incisive analysis... must reading for the serious market student and professional. Also, very illuminating are the two 23-year charts of GOLD and the US Dollar.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/Aurophile123197.html


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 07:29
223 U>(Mike, I like your style, much less pedantic than mine!) ID#26669:
!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 07:25
223 U>(All, thoughts for the morning concerning the LBJ phenomenom) ID#26669:
Being a rather peaceful soul, I prefer to just let the grossly inappropriate say enough to get thrown off the board without egging them on. Below is a statement made by either Bart or one of his people, posted in plain sight on the comment page. It speaks for itself, so lets not get too rowdy ourselves, while waiting for others to cross over the line.

Please Note: For your protection, please do not post any comments or graphic files that are accusing, harassing or defamatory. It is your duty as an information provider to verify the accuracy and legality of the content you are providing and to accept liability for any actionable defamation or objectionable material which you may provide.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 07:21
Mike Sheller U>(LGB ) ID#347447:
LGB: No sir, I had no idea of your age, actually. I guess I don't pay much attention to the details of your life. But now a lot makes sense to me. Too young for Nam, too old for Desert Storm. But would have gladly gone if called. And such noble ideals and service to your community. Yes, many of us have performed, and still perform such services to our country as your most noble ( and to be commended ) acts. And, in the simple earning of our living ( I, as you know, sell snake oil ) and support of our families, we all contribute to the uplifting of our civilization. In these areas I genuinely find no fault with what you say. I suspect, behind that uniformly disagreeable, egotistical bombast, you are an essentially good man, and a grain of salt , though an exceedingly fine grain, of this earth. However, I took exception to your frivolous characterization of people who have fought for their country who also rail at politicians and government officials. Apparently you think it is equally permissable for the state to take a citizen's child and sacrifice him on some battlefield as it is to take a citizen's gold. It is certainly your right to think that way. However it is now clear to me why you do. Not having been used as a military pawn of your nation allows you to enjoy the nice, comfortable, ego-consoling dream of the nobility of your intentions and your willingness to sacrifice for your country. I respectfully, and sadly submit that you do not know what you are talking about. If you could participate just once in the barbarity that governments recruit men for, perhaps you would not be so quick to relieve others who have of the dignity of the right to dissent they have earned. Earned, perhaps, in a fuller measure than those who had never participated in such horror for their country. But I wish to depreciate the rights of no one. I will not belabor the images I could conjure for you that are so easily recalled from the harddrive of my mind. I am sure, as a family man yourself, and one who appears to be somewhat intelligent and informed, you can readily imagine. That would not be fair to you, and too ghoulish and painful a tribute to those who lost children, fathers, lovers, mates and friends to the sacrifice for country. MY country, dear LGB, is a free, rational America, the one conceived by the founders. Yes, I realize that times, nations, and people change, and circumstances have a way of perhaps irretreivably revising themselves. I do not live in the past. I glorify many of the same things you find worthy of respect in this great nation. I believe America has been, is, and will continue to be, a beacon to the world, in many ways. I love this country. And if I have anything bad to say about it, it is for its own good as I perceive it. I do not speak for anyone else on this forum but myself. Everything I do or say is from my own motives, my own perspective. It is tiresome the way you tie me in with others whenever you have disparaging remarks to make. You are being, of course, cavalier and unfair. But I understand the nature of your character, and overlook this.

I recognize your dismissal of astrology, because I remember how I myself thought about it long before I ever became involved with it, before I actually learned what it IS. Though it sometimes amazes me how easy it is for someone as intelligent as yourself to disparage and dismiss something that they know absolutely nothing about. But I have no need to defend anything I do. Your opinions about these things are unimportant ultimately. What I do feel is important is that people who have earned the right to their opinions through paying their dues to their country by being forced into unspeakable horrors be allowed that right. That their motives not be judged. That you be, if possible, just a little more understanding, a little more ( you should pardon the expression ) tolerant. Those who have had the blessing of more civilized service to their fellow man and have not been called into someone else's nightmare description of service should count their blessings, continue their good works, and thank their God every day that they have, in this life at least, been spared their service in hell. You have a nice day now, sir.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 07:18
Ted U>(Wired on Ginseng......................and ready ta deck) ID#364147:
The deck WILL be done by the end of the day as I am a man on a fukin mission~~~~~~~~~~~go team gold!! bbMl duuuudes...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 07:14
Ted U>(What a fitting way to end the year) ID#364147:
Feb Gold down 1.60 @ 2-9-0 and Silver down 15.5 cents @ 6.03 ( could 'it' end any differently )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 07:04
Ted U>(LGB.........and poker) ID#364147:
As Ali used ta say---I'd whup yer ass

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:56
Ted U>(Panda) ID#364147:
Good mornin my friend.....we prefer blinders in Cape Breton~~~~~

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:47
sas U>(LGB Stuff) ID#283121:

LGB - I generally ignore the inaccuracies in your posts, but the nonsensical nature of two of your recent comments cannot go by unmentioned.

You said Nikkei crashing UP more than 3% I see. They must not read Voronsky's site over there. Ignoring your obvious confusion over what day it is, I can only assume that have you been asleep for the past several months as the Nikkei has plunged 5000 points, only to awaken on one of the rare occasions when it goes up.

You also said Don't woory that I'll be pained by Silver's drop. Since my average buy price was 34% less than where it stands now, I don't think I'll go bankrupt anytime soon. If we assume a current price of $6.00 for silver, then 34% less than where its stands now = $3.96. Now I understand - you must have purchased your silver in 1993.

I must disagree with EB’s comments - I think he over-estimates your ability.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:40
panda U>(Dr. R.) ID#30116:
How much money is too much money to protect your eyesight? Impact injury as well as too much sun light are high probability occurences in this particular situation.

Although I don't always like what I see, I do prefer to keep my sight....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:38
Ted U>(As I scroll back in time) ID#364147:
Post of the evening goes ta Tolerant1 ( 00:18 ) ---Feb. Gold down 1.50 and silver still gettin hammered~~~~~~

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:35
Ted U>(EB..................................WOW) ID#364147:
Are we a little cranky...er what?...Where's yer New Year's Eve spirit --and by the way Canada Post ( gag ) got off their fat asses and delivered yer X-Mas card yesterday ( thankx bro! ) ---is that you--you dog--in the pic

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:23
Donald__A U>(Some Japanese banks have Korea on short 30 day rollover leash) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971230/dlr_yen_ends_us_high_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:18
Donald__A U>(Russia says all back wages have been paid.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971230/russia_debts_chernom_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:17
Crystal Ball U>(@Camdessus) ID#287367:
May the bluebird of happiness make a deposit on your head. Happy New Year.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:13
Crystal Ball U>(@ Éß) ID#287407:
Welcome back, Eric! I'm see your obsession with LGBoob is strong as ever. Well, you can have him all to yourself, I'm not jealous anymore! ( The pompous Arschloch ) Have a happy, healthy, prosperous New Year.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:10
Donald__A U>(Brazil denied entrance into export heaven.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971230/brazil_posts_648_mln_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:04
Donald__A U>(Latin American inflation lowest in FIFTY YEARS!) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971230/latin_inflation_lowe_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 06:00
Ugadal U>(*** A P O L O G I E S **** aka Werner / La Betise and others) ID#267299:
I hereby sincerely apologize to all readers of these neat messages
I'm sharing my EMail with an Internet Newbies who is not a Gold Market Newbie at all
My friend did mix offensive ( he guessed ) EMails adressed to myself with reactions ( supposed as yours ) to his ununderstandable posts in this newsgroup.
Please understand that ASCII words do often look more offensive than what they sound in the mouth of someone, just as a way of speaking...
Anyway, Werner remains a person interested in the gold business, and I hope U will all accept his lack of experience in typing, and in general in the internet.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 05:55
Ted U>(Selby and all other Canadians) ID#364147:
Is it common business proceedure in Canada for your OWN realtor to appoint the lawyer for the BUYER---and then have this paper-shuffler try+ throw as many monkey wrenches into what was said ( but I don't believe a word that is said in Cape Breton ( the bullsh!t capital of N.A. ) to be a done deal....@ this stage of the 'game' I could still cancel my contract in Maine but a team of wild horses couldn't keep me in this society..I didn't go quietly into the night in the U.S.of A during the 60's and I ain't here in the 90's...Tonight is my LAST New Year's Eve in Cape Fat dumb and LAZY.....go gold!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 05:46
John Disney__A U>(Sure on this shining Night) ID#24140:
for Aurator

You, my friend, are a wonder

for Miro

I agree with what you said to Karlito. I agree with

anything that is in disagreement with Karlito.

for KO

There are a lot of ways to look at a lot of things.

However, the tools you suggest would not help ME

decide which is the best investmnet.

for EB

You are as rude as I am - I dont know if I like that

or not.

for tolerant1

my time frame is infinite - JLHooker, Sam Barber,

Tom Rush, the Band, Brel, Lamenta della Ninfa, Steely

Dan ...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 05:41
Ted U>(Selby.....................and tonight @ the casino) ID#364147:
Thankx...and bein in Cape Breton I'll need all the luck I can get...eh!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 05:38
Ted U>(@ Cape Breton) ID#364147:
Happy New Year's Eve all Kitcoites!!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 05:20
Miro U>(@Karlito on Demonetirization and ) ID#347457:
Karlito, I can’t let you get away with your post on Demonetirization from Dec 30 1997 09:43

You write :

I think information has replaced gold. All countries with a floating currency must operate by the information standard which is much more rigorous than the gold standard, just witness the problems of S. Korea et.al.

The internet is the heart of the information standard. Several hundred thousand traders all looking at their screens, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. When the PM of Poo Dunc makes a stupid statement, down goes his currency. When domestic companies over borrow or national governments do the same, there is a run on their currency.

Karlito, you are a management consultant with one of the Big Six so I assume that you know something about information theory and management and should know that the claim you are making is not true at all.

First what information standard are you talking about? Standard which is rigorous?!

I am in Information Management field for some 30 years and never heard about information standard replacing or even just rigorously supporting currency valuation.

Yes, we have ten thousand standards supporting information processing, they come and go with changing technologies, many of them contradicting each other, many of them ignored by IT practitioners and functional users. Well, I guess this sits just fine with floating currencies - we can float them whichever way we need.

Look at the definition of standard:

An acknowledged measure of comparison for quantitative and qualitative value; criterion; norm; An object that under specified conditions defines , represents, or records the magnitude of a unit.

Now, would you please elaborate how this rigorous information standard with internet being its heart works for monetary units? Is a stupid statement of prime minister worth $1US? $1.50US, $2.50DM? How much is worth overprinting of money by treasury department? Over borrowing? How do you value ( or adjust ) quality and correctness of information? Etc.. etc..

No my friend we don’t have information standard. Yes, we have a technology and infrastructure which can deliver and process the information much faster but that does not constitute a monetary standard!

In my many years in this industry is worked in many sectors of our society which heavily depends on information technology ( defense, intelligence, finance, government, private business, genetic research, etc. ) Most of them recognize that information theory and technology is essential to their business, supports their technological process, however, none of them would claim that information replaces their main functional process.

E.g., a few years back I was involved with Human Genome project, had a privilege to meet some top scientists in genetic research. There is no doubt that without information technology we would not be able to make a progress we did. However, information technology and standards will not replace DNA and nor will it determine human behavior or health. ( though there are ill attempts to use it that way by business entities - e.g. insurance companies )

Being in information engineering field for so many years it disappoints me so much when I see casting information theory into the new panacea role where information age, information superhighway, etc. is suppose to replace most of the existing values. It’s done without any understanding what information technology is about, and many times it does more damage than good. Unfortunately, the most abuses of IT role I see in business area where we waste money with claims that IT will take care of all our problems without having a clear understanding what is it we are trying to achieve.

As you see I am not making a claim and because of this gold will rise to $8000 level but I will argue with you forever about information standard replacing any other monetary standards. We have a long way to go!!


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 04:28
aurator U>(Is there anybody out there?) ID#257148:
Éß and Prosperous trading to you too, all of you, any one of you, each of you.

tgl here's a thought why don't you call this guy's bluff? I mean, I don't know if Dr G Poulson is for real, heck, it could be one of the many faces of Éß for all I know. Maybe Puetz or LGB, perhaps this Hedgehog - the one with pricks on the outside- Hope you got the bålls to front up,tgl. The golden bålls! I reckon this site will be better for it...

Zee I don't like cricket, I love it....

Nick@C Get out of that Laz-y-Boy, And give us some Ocker wisdom, cobber, please.

auratorwondering@wherehaveallthegoodtimesgone?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 04:12
aurator U>(Looking around for some mead, got everything else.....?) ID#257148:
Zee: North Island.

Tolerant1 your 00:35 was completely over my head. Was that Mescalin or just a pile of tequila? Please elucidate.

BTW who was it who tried to perpetuate a myth about the vikings on Psylocibin mushrooms the other day? don't you know your drugs? the vikings used to rape, plunder and pillage ( ( OH, Oh, - and extract DaneGold from the Angles ) ) while sailing on Amanita Muscuria mushrooms. THese are also known as fly agaric and are the cute little red mushies with white spots that the caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland is sitting on while puffing a hooka.

Now, where was I? Oh yes, the vikings were pretty canny, they knew that Amanita Muscuria ( aka the Soma of the Baghavadghita - one of the great hindu texts, Soma is the food of the Gods, aka manna in the Bible ) is a deadly poison, so don't nobody go taking it. Yeah the vikings knew that Amanita Muscuria can actually be fatal and that the toxins were removed by being passed through a pair of kidneys. Those canny Vikings ( don't forget the Danegold ) got their slaves to eat the mushrooms and several pints of mead, why those Vikings just drank the urine of the slaves and got ready for some plunder and pillage. About now we expect to hear some bars from Electric Ladyland....

Life was simpler in those days, no IRS, no Cricket, no Camdessus..


just gold, your gold, and my gold. gold.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:41
EB U>(Hep.....er...uh.....studioR..............and this is it for the eve.......) ID#22956:
I will deliver the knock out punch soon. It will make that chunk missing from your ear look like the mere flesh wound that it is......BONK!

away...to tape the bone-crushers

ÉßwinkismineDA

plat is a screaming good buy though.....screaming......maybe ;- ) .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:36
EB U>(tolerant.....cheers......) ID#22956:
GULP....aaaaaah!

away...to bask in the warmth of a quick shot-o-the-smooth

ÉßlueAgave

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:33
Hedgehog U>(outing myself) ID#39845:
Well what a year. I am one of those multi-handle specialists. Loved all
my characters this year and yes if it was LGBore that forced registration
on us then let him be outed. Those lines of expletives could match his
style, format of post seemed familiar. Anyhow Greenfields had LGB by
the short and curlies and if LGB keeps up the bullexcrement for much
longer he will probably drown in his own study. Heres wishing.
Goodyear to all goldbugs and hoping for the return of GSC Hepcat
Amnesty WW Goldfinger Another ( yes I hope s/he is well ) . Astute gentlewo/men and fine attitude.

From little things big things grow. Period.
Here is a cold one for you all. Just gotta get you all here.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:30
EB U>(and Ted...............as to your question......) ID#22956:
Where is WW It is obvious that WW is ROR.....and Old Gold is George S Cole.

Why do these people hide?

....eh, boob? I guess they don't want us poor slob goldbugs to come to their silicone valley apartment...er ...house to steal all their massive ( Hunt-like ) Silver stockpiles....yeah right...... ( spew ) ... ( splash ) .... ( burp ) ....... ( gag ) ........... ( ugh ) .

away...to live an open book

ÉßprivateI

what say you ROR huh!? Well?!? You socialist-union-man-lawyer-dude....ohmy.

now how is that for salty, salty? g'day mate...new year...etc.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:30
ZEE U>(Jack-world flu) ID#30238:
- ............and the emu's with their heads in the sand?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:18
EB U>(Dec S&P Puts......) ID#22956:
And one more thing you boob....

I know MANY people who purchased S&P puts and made a buttload of duckets ( you don't hold options until expiry...moron ) ....so you can keep spouting that 'worthless' CRAP if you want. You just keep looking uglier and UGlier and UGLIER! PUHLEASE!...you don't know sh!t about puts and calls.........

the face only a mother could love ( or a dog could love it if you tied a porkchop to it ) ....ugh.

away...to read more 'worthless' CRAP...

Éß

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:18
Jack U>(IF WORLD BUSINESS CAUGHT THE FLU AND GOLD BECAME EXCEEDINGLY STRONG) ID#252127:

Would they treat us like Hong Kong Chickens?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 03:17
KO U>(Disney) ID#270224:
Thanks for Alta Vista info. I found Western Deep.

Here is another way to look at precious metals stocks:

Price,Price/cash flow, Price/book value,Price/sales, price/earnings, cash flow/debt, %return on invested capital, %gross profit margin. Here is data for 2 of the better PM stocks that are available in Canada/US in the above sequence based on October 17 prices:

Franco Nevada - 36.4,37.58,5.64,28.23,46.97,no debt,19.21,not listed
Prime Resources - 11.45,15.56,2.88,4.27,24.89,116.29,31.66,45.33

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:59
tolerant1 U>(John Disney) ID#31868:
I, Sir, do not know your time frame, I suggest Mettalica - Metlf

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:59
ZEE U>(Aurator - New Year) ID#30238:
- 1st- thanks for the b.g. info.
- So, just what island do you live on?
- Do the inhabitants try to play cricket and practice safe six?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:50
tolerant1 U>(EB) ID#31868:
I knew I put knee-pads on my knuckles for a reason.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:39
John Disney__A U>(Everyone to their own taste) ID#24140:
for KO

I use inference find for searches - I did a quick

search for WD and came up with about 40 items - Yahoo

is not good for that sort of thing - or try alta vista.

Prime produced a bit over 12 mill oz of silver in 1996

- they are listed at 474,000 oz of production of gold

equivalent. Using 75 to one au/ag for the period for

example, would put their gold production around 314,000

oz. With a ratio of 47 to 1, their gold equiv production

would rise to 314 plus 12000/47= 569 gold equiv ( unless I

made a mistake ) .

Prime is the only example I can think of with

major ag production. They also have big copper reserves

in their share if the troilus mine.

I'm personally not very interested in the stock, but

suggest you can revise your own spread sheet any

way that suits you - you may or may not wish to share

the methodology with others - up to you.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:36
EB U>(wading through CRAP.......night after night.....week after week....) ID#22956:
lgboob - you are full of Sh!t.

nuff said.

away...to sell my precious st. godimanasshole'ns to buy some overpriced silver ( cause i can buy it for 34% cheaper... ( more crap ) ) and watch it tank.

Éßuptohisearsinhorseshit

and thank you so much for the HOT tip on gold going UP in early 98 ( duh,are you some kind of genius ) . I will start my massive accumulation when you give me the word.......horses-ass.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:31
SDRer__A U>(A. Goose, the real news is in the new alliances quietly being formed..) ID#287277:

1 ) Nuclear deal Russia and China ( I told you that hug was for
REAL )
2 ) The Iranian conference
3 ) Japan PM visits Saudis in November, their oldest party functionary visits in December
4 ) Japan new oil arrangement with Iran
5 ) China V-Premier visits South Africa
6 ) South African announcements +China, -West ( particularly US )
it goes on...it is quite a scary little list...and growing...
The geopolitical is actually as important, if not more important,
than the financial bits ( which, God knows, are scary enough ) .

And I got an email from Sharefin tonight with his notation about
666+666+666=1998...which started me imagining all kinds of
things, because 6 ( if i remember rightly ) is a favored, magical
number for the Chinese; whilst in the west it is the sign of
the devil. oh my...going to bed and dream of...

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:30
tolerant1 U>(SDRer) ID#31868:
Soros is a tiny player. Nothing more, nothing less. Bed clothing, and horrible tailor's. Yeah, real rich. I would not even spit on his poorly made shoes. I kid you not. Georgie Soros...gimmeee a break.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:29
Jack U>(The Death Knell has been Sounded) ID#252127:

The saving grace, using your future security to save their Commrades in Arms has created a false calm.
Allowing exit while their commrades run to safety and WE THE PEOPLE hunker down to save our Government and the powers that run it.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:11
Producer U>(Thanks) ID#226355:
Haggis- I appreciate the information on the valuation. Picked up a reasonable prospect yesterday. As soon as spring rolls around I will go out and evaluate the ground ,it looks promising so I am optimistic.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:07
SDRer__A U>(Myrmidon, No. Becuase in our weird virtual reality world,) ID#287277:
one is forced to consider Soros, because the market considers
Soros...We all play the game of looking at what they are looking
at,or what we think they MIGHT be looking at, hoping to find a small fissure through which a tiny globule of honest to god truth might leak.

Ridiculous and rather sad, yes?

Happy New Year to you. Good Luck in finding kernals of truth for
trades in 98!

G'night

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:06
PrivateInvestor U>(All RE: Goldilocks & the BIG BEARS) ID#225283:

For a great bit of reading about bear markets please follow this link from pbs show frontline:

http//www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/betting/

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:04
Jack U>(Another nigth of Puetz bashing and nothing learned.) ID#252127:

Is it possible to develope a hatred for a country whose basic premises have taken a severe turn?
No it ain't just gold that's a problem for many, its those guys that created the turn.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 02:03
A.Goose U>() ID#200174:
SDRer: You know the governments have to be scrambling in a major red alert. As you have pointed out, there are so many people lending money that I am fairly sure they are unable to keep track of who owes what to whom.

Next week South Korea probably will be loaning money to Italy.

No one is going to be able to compete with South Korea, with ( if it really happens ) all the new funds it is receiving from the world combined with its devalued currency.

What will happen when South Korea takes over China's market share? What happens when South Korea, ... Japan take over the U.S. market share? The U.S. will have negative exports in 1998 - only returns.

Yes I would say there is a disaster in the winds and they are blowing around the world soon to make landfall in the U.S.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:57
Myrmidon U>(@ SDRer) ID#34592:
Soros has made in the past some serious financial mistakes,

a. He was heavy in Newmont Gold at around $50
b. Praising gold at $380
c. Wrong on currency speculations, etc.

Why even consider his opinion? Because he is rich? One more reason to suspect that he doesn't want others to profit. Contrary indicator?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:53
DJ U>(Spreadsheet) ID#215208:
John D - I lost your e-mail address due to computer problems ( OK, OK it was operator error! ) Would love to look over your spreadsheet, if you still have a copy lying around. nimsd@aol.com

All - Currency of the average gold buyer has been fluxuating wildly lately. Could be a sign it is bottoming out ( though at the moment it looks like it is still trending down ) . If it is indeed bottoming, in my opinion, gold will finally start basing out, in preparation for the coming bull. Perhaps will have to wait for the new year to realistically judge the trend in currencies.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:47
tolerant1 U>(LGB2) ID#31868:
If I am to be honest. My eyelids glisten.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:46
KO U>(Disney - nice try) ID#270224:
Silver as gold equivalents doesn't help much for companies with silver rich mines. I was hoping that we could have a spreadsheet which would allow us to see how a stocks PE or EPS would change for different gold and silver prices. I was so hot on Prime PRU because the fraction of its revenues from silver are so high. I calculated 50/50 split at $350 US gold and $10 US silver. I was hoping to compare this stock to a lot of other stocks that trade in Canada and the U.S. I am interested in precious metals stock that can make a profit at today's prices without having to borrow like Agnico Eagle or shut down mines like Barrick. I tried to fine the web page for Western Deep on yahoo but couldn't find it. If you can figure out a way around the problem I'm still interested in helping put out a really useful spreadsheet. It would be nice to cash in on some well run companies via their stocks while we are waiting for Joe Public to wake up and realize that their NYSE retirement funds are at risk.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:44
A.Goose U>() ID#200174:
Oooppps, there is SDRer now Myrmidon you can ask SDRer directly.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:42
A.Goose U>() ID#200174:
Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:23
Myrmidon ( @ A.Goose ) ID#339212:

SDRer, Tolerant1,... and several others had a very good discussion on deflation/inflation yesterday ( or possibly the day before ) . I recommend pulling up the information.

Summation is that pm's do very well in deflation. SDRer is starting to say that terms deflation/inflation may be losing their meaning is this mordern game the governments are playing. Perserving value is the name of the game. Interesting stuff.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:41
SDRer__A U>(A. Goose, Tolerant1) ID#287277:
Re: Soros comment-- ( 1 ) According to the FT, the first meeting of
world-class bankers took place Christmas Eve. In London, New York, Brussels, Basale and Frankfort. This immediately suggests, at least to one with an over-active imagination, that the 'trouble' is big, swift and very ugly indeed. Board Chairman of International Banks are not called away from Christmas Eve festivities unless Doom Descends. The Monday morning regular business 2nd meeting was a nice PR touch.
( 2 ) Has anyone counted the number of times the same tranche of IMF
money has been announced? And done in such a way, that the lingering
effect is that there is ALL KINDS of money to extricate the financial system; when the fact of the matter is a. IMF essential broke, and
b. money is thin on the ground in any country you care to name.
3 ) So, in a wild kind of symmetrical irony, 'virtual loans' of
'virtual money' will be used.

Tolerant1@Waiting.for.C: First, a little gift: I read today that there is talk of firing C! Not all you were hoping for, I know, but visualize
this: he has to go to holiday parties; everyone who smiles at him, he'll wonder, Is Claude with me?, Does Veronica believe that I'm on
my way out?...really Tolerant1, it will be a HORRIBLE party season
for C. Just keep the little wax doll by the fireplace, and all
will be well.
PS: Your holiday VolcanoDrink? ( Dog, fire, tequilla, rum,gin,beer& wine?
Could/Would you please leave the dog out? Many thanks. And a
very happy New Year to you and yours.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:34
John Disney__A U>(I love the smell of insults in the morning) ID#24140:
for KO - tell me what mines you have in mind and

ill try to comply. The Mining Journal handles silver

in terms of gold equivalent by dividing silver

produced and in reserve by the au/ag ratio over the

period so the math is OK. Cost is expressed as $/oz

gold equivalent. It's a pretty standard calculation.

If you have a better way please advise with an

example or simply change you spread sheet to fit your

own interests.

For Bugman - Thank you dearie for nominating me to

the Hall Of Fame - Like they say bad publicity is

better than no publicity at all -

However I find your continuous and venomous berating

of Puetz offensive. It is self rightous posturing - you

may be sufferring from a sense of inferiority ( perhaps

it is justified - perish the thought ) - I demand that

spock and tgl demand that you apologize to Puetz -

and quick smart too,

For You and James - please desist from sowing

dissent between Haggis and me - we are quite capable

of sowing our OWN dissent. Anyway a guy that likes

malt scotch cant be ALL bad.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:24
kuston U>(('th' back then) thank you '96 kitcoites) ID#273227:

Having just finished my '97 taxes, I must thank everyone from Kitco's

1996 postings for the help, education, and encouragement we shared during

1996. Almost everyone has been run off from those days, but hopefully

this message will get through to them. For without them, I would of never

opened my Lind Waldock account on Dec. 20, 1996. I have survived the

first year and the accound is now 4 times larger then when I started.

I was very lucky this year, but I was even luckier to find Kitco during

the early days.

In my first post, I stated the most valuable thing I could add was information

about golfing in the Valley of the Sun - Phoenix. My offer is still

open to anyone coming to Phoenix this winter: drop me a note.

Anyone still in contact with the original kitcoites, please relay this

note to them.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:23
Myrmidon U>(@ A.Goose) ID#339212:
What if this doesn't happen in our lifetime? The same talk prevailed in the mid '70s. Eventually Soros or someone else will be right since they have been preaching this for a long time.

Definition of inflation per Webster dictionary is: A reduction in the money supply, resulting in lower prices for goods... On this basis what is the future of PMs? I would guess down.

Inflation is what we want, like back in 1980 for metals to soar.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:21
KO U>(Silver web page) ID#270224:
Check out the following web pages. They show that silver has reached its highest price in over 4 years. It also has useful gold price comparisons for US$ Marks Yen and Australian $.

www.the-privateer.com

www.the-privateer.com/chart/gold-sil.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:20
Retearivs U>(Retiarivs svm.) ID#410196:

Flight JT8D this is Kitco tower g.c.a. Execute a missed approach and join the circuit.

Since all else has failed and we are hanging upon your words, Captain, prepare the text on your word processor. Massage to taste. Save it as a bald a.s.c.i.i. file with /no carriage returns or line feeds/. Load the a.s.c.i.i. file back into the word processor and copy it to your clip board. Summon up the Kitco Add a Comment Page and paste your text into the text window.

JT8D you are cleared to land on 31 write ( ! ) . Check gear down and locked.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:17
vertigo U>(Good night all) ID#42371:
Tomorrow is another day.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:12
A.Goose U>(Deflation ) ID#200174:


``We are on the verge of worldwide deflation,'' Soros wrote in an article in Wednesday's edition of Britain's Financial Times newspaper.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971230/asia_soros_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:05
vertigo U>(Another contrary indicator needed....any applications?) ID#42371:
My bet is Peutz won't resurface for a while.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:01
Myrmidon U>(@ LGB@) ID#339212:
Don't use Puetz as a contrary indicator unless he is long in silver. Saying and doing it are two different things.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 01:00
vertigo U>(Gold Bug LGB!!!!) ID#42371:
Maybe Peutz will have you as a guest cloumnist, course he could be going short by then.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:55
LGB2__A U>(@ Vertigo.......................My one great fear.....) ID#315256:
Puetz does make one prediction that completely terrifies me, I must admit in all honesty. Namely, he's been real bullish on Silver lately, and since I hold a lot of it, I'm REAL worried about his near perfect record as a contrary indicator!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:53
LGB2__A U>(@ Vertigo...........Free issue for all Kitcoites) ID#315256:
Puetz did that already a few months ago but excluded just one person, guess who!!!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:51
LGB2__A U>(@Myrmidon) ID#315256:
That's a tough question. I'm considering it right as we speak if I'm to be honest. Here's my rationale, I'm a fairly conventional risk taker of the buy low sell high school. I think Gold may very well have seen it's bottom at $281, as many metals market analysts predicted strong support there.

Gold mutual funds took a HORRIBLE beating this year, down 61% in the case of Midas fund, the worst mutual fund loss of 1997. All the CB selling frenzy seems to have abated somewhat. Gold consumption is up. We may indeed see inflation ahead with money supply growing so fast. Mining shares reached new lows this year, and all time lows if we consider inflation.

To me, all this adds up to a good risk/reward ratio for Gold. I want to watch it just a little longer....well, in all honesty, a small consortium of peers and I, who have a small joint venture high risk account, are considering some short term spec. plays in ECO, HM, maybe even Pegasus!

OK, there ya go, by early 98, the OleGB may be bullish on Gold!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:48
vertigo U>(LGB; re the much maligned Peutz.) ID#42371:
Maybe he will offer his subscribers a free month. No doubt you will be first in line for that deal.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:45
Myrmidon U>(@ LGB2_A) ID#339212:
I have read all your posts with great interest and I respect your investment strategies. Your openmindness and objectivity have made you money. Now the question:

When will you consider getting into gold or gold stocks again?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:40
LGB2__A U>(@ Ted) ID#315256:
If there's a poker game, deal me in!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:39
Dr. R U>(Panda Bear) ID#268342:
Wow, you got 269 bucks to spend on sunglasses?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:38
Selby U>() ID#287207:
Thanks HighRise.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:38
HighRise U>(Frustrated (Nikkei - closed for the holidays... reopens Jan 5 )) ID#401460:
Interesting article thin trading

Thank You

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:38
LGB2__A U>(@ Vertigo) ID#315256:
Normally I would feel sadness if someone left the forum on my account. But in the case of the No loyalty to my country eclipse progosticator Puetz, yer not going to induce guilt feelings in me.

Besides, I don't think my posts or lack thereof have anything to do with it. Puetz is too busy right now explaining to his dewey eyed Newsletter subscribers, just why it is that his recommended S&P DEcemeber expiration PUT options will be expiring worthless, a ONE HUNDRED percent loss....

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:37
Selby U>(Night) ID#287207:
Ted: good luck at the casino tomorrow. If things start going badly I understand you can change you luck by throwing some of that --you know--over your left shoulder.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:36
HighRise U>(Selby) ID#401460:
Here are some sites, hope they help. I still have a problem keeping track of when they are open and closed. Makes me wonder if that is the idea. I posted South Korea last night even though I knew they were closed - go figure I was brain dead.
http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/je3tbc/html/sthome.html

http://personal32.fidelity.com:80/82DEV/the_hub/html/N225.html

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/index.html
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u
Good Night All

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:35
Myrmidon U>(diversity) ID#339212:
Need to also have investments for the GOOD TIMES !!

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:35
LGB2__A U>(@ Aurator, Millenial infighting) ID#315256:
Why are those islands fighting for first place in Millenial sunrise and such? Don't they know that the Y2K computer bug will destroy civilization as we know it, and thus they should have no part of that Armageddon dawning day ?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:35
tolerant1 U>(aurator) ID#31868:
I am pleased because a friend named ed met shadow, the envelopment is near. The Sha is dead and now the dow is closed, the Racs and cats sit on the sill, thank God Beverly is asleep. Now I may delve into the post, it is difficult to enter 4 by 4 squared,

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:35
Frustrated U>(Nikkei - closed for the holidays... reopens Jan 5 ) ID#298259:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971229/tokyo_stocks_sweep_u_1.html

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:32
vertigo U>(LGB) ID#42371:
Looks like you've chased Peutz right off the forum. Of course the poor fellow can never get on without coming across you.. ( of course for that matter neither can the rest of us ) .

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:32
LGB2__A U>(@ Disney) ID#315256:
Au contrair Disperson, I don't always make money. In the late 70's I lost some money on Gold and SIlver investments, ( when I was a young ignorant GoldBug type fool ) but I made some back in a couple of the spectacular run-ups, for a basic break even position. back then I was lazily listening to Johhny One Note Puetzeske type analysts.

I soon realized that investing meant research, adapting, change, study, risk, and no easy answers. I started into stocks and never looked back till we reached 21/1 PE's at which point I yanked my 401 K mutuals into the MMF, and my non retirement investments into Silver. I expect I have losses on my plate again someday, but for the moment, I shall celebrate luck AND continuously adapting market strategies.





Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:27
HighRise U>(Globex) ID#401460:
S&P 500 MAR98 977.80 -150
NSDQ100 MAR98 998.25A -1050

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:26
aurator U>(New Year, The Milleny - Ummm. stuff like that....) ID#255284:
ZEE Hi, you asked when does the New Year start. It is an interesting question and one which most people do not understand. The important thing to remember, when you read this article, is that there is a difference between the first sunrise of the New Year, and the first day of the New Year.
Now universally ( I suppose even in Quebec though they'd probably like to use the old pre GMT Paris standard ) the universal day starts at 00:00hrs GMT, that presents problems, as this Greenich article ( sorry URL is lost ) shows:


Royal Greenwich Observatory
Special Information Leaflet: No. 22 `The First Sunrise in the New
Millennium'
There has been considerable media interest in the decision of the Republic of Kiribati to declare that all the islands that it comprises will use the same date and that this will correspond to that of the Gilbert Islands which lie to the west of the International Dateline. The controversy arises because many of the other islands lie to the east of the dateline and the effect of the change is to alter the date in these islands so that they will be a day ahead of that indicated by the position of the dateline.
Time Zones
The time zone that is kept in any country is defined by the government of that country and does not appear to need sanction by any outside `authority'. It is thus not unreasonable for the Kiribati government to have taken this decision on the basis that it wants to have the whole country enjoying the same date and day of the week. The complication has arisen that different groups are, for financial reasons, attempting to boost tourist trade in the south Pacific around the time of the start of the new millennium.

The Start of the Millennium
The date of the start of the new millennium is 1 January 2001 and not, as some would have it, the year 2000. This does not mean that we should not celebrate the start of the 2000th year but that we should get the nomenclature correct and, maybe, have two sets of celebrations in the two years.

The first Sunrise
There has been much discussion of who will have the first sunrise at the start of these years. The confusion has arisen from a misunderstanding of the effects of longitude and latitude on the sunrise times and also the interpretation of time zones. The misunderstanding over time zones is easily explained. The relative times of sunrise at different places must be measured using a common time. The calculations on which this note has been prepared, use GMT. Any other time zone can be used and will make no difference to the relative times of sunrise. What can not be used is a different time zone for each different place; that would just give meaningless answers. The use of closeness to the dateline or the longitude of the site alone is not valid because the effects of latitude can be far larger close to southern midsummer.
The calculation of sunrise times should be performed for each place by a reputable method and by someone who understands the problem. The RGO can do these calculations as part of the standard set of services that it provides. Such calculations have been made for the various sites and are available subject to the normal system of charges.
When does the Year Start?
The definition of the start of the year is one which is not quite as simple as might, at first sight, be envisaged. Everyone normally celebrates the start of the new year when the chimes of midnight, local clock time, are heard. This means that the new year starts at different times for all the different countries and time zones around the world. Thus for someone in, say, the GMT time zone the new year will be just starting when people living near the International Dateline are experiencing mid-day. For this reason if we wish to consider a unique time for the start of the New Year we must take it to be at 00:00 on January 1 measured in Universal Time. This would have to be regarded as the Astronomical definition of the instant of the New Year.
This raises complications for those promoting sites near the dateline as having the first sunrise of the New Year because at their sunrise, by this definition, the New Year will not have started. They will, in effect have to wait another 16 hours for the first sunrise of the new year!
Conclusion
The first Place to have sunrise each year is probably the Balleny Islands in Antarctica where the Sun is below the horizon for less than one hour. The question of which inhabited island is the first depends on a knowledge of which islands to include and which to exclude and is outside the scope of this note.


So who sees the New Year first on kitco, why, by incontravertible scientific proof ( my assertion ) I DO!

auratorgetting ready to drop the ball ( ? )

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:23
tolerant1 U>(John Disney) ID#31868:
Compassion is that which all Nurses wish they could impart to Doctors who have to make Tee time.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:22
Selby U>(typing for sure) ID#287207:
tolerant1

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:21
tolerant1 U>(Selby) ID#31868:
French and spelling eh.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:20
John Disney__A U>( Tell me WHO DOO YOO LUV) ID#24140:
For the Bug person

Glad you always make a lot of money - I cant help myself- I just

feel compasion ( whatever that is ) for all of god's creatures - great

or small. Sorry it was misguided compasion in this instance.


Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:20
Selby U>() ID#287207:
Highrie: could you post the site for the Japan info--it is obviously better than the 1 I'm using.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:18
HighRise U>( Selby) ID#401460:
It Is 12/31/97
Japan
Nikkei 225
^N225
9:04PM 12/30/97
15258.74
+483.52
+3.27

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:18
tolerant1 U>(John Disney) ID#31868:
I personally could not read a spread sheet if I saw one. Tried reading a map once and ended up paddling a Masserati down the Yangtze.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:16
LGB2__A U>(Japan) ID#315256:
I was confused, those were previous sessions big gains I believe, Hong Kong and taiwan were open, but not Japan.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:13
John Disney__A U>(little bitty chimney up on top made outta human SKULLS) ID#24140:

To all sports fans - Im curious - do you all actually UNDERSTAND

that spread sheet or have you lost interest

I think we should add Ashanti and Buenaventura and scrub echo bay.

sons of gwalia doesnt look too thrilling either nor does tvx.

Anyone got any ideas.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:11
Selby U>() ID#287207:
Is it the 30th or the 1st in Japan

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:11
tolerant1 U>(Selby) ID#31868:
That is not a bad attribute.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:10
LGB2__A U>(@ John Disney..........silver off) ID#315256:
Don't woory that I'll be pained by Silver's drop. Since my average buy price was 34% less than where it stands now, I don't think I'll go bankrupt anytime soon.

Besides, I didn't lose 90% of my net worth by buying Gold in 1980 like some folks, nor did I miss the 450% gains that I in fact HAVE realized by being in Equities during that same time frame.

No, you needn't feel too much compasion just yet John.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:10
tolerant1 U>(TED) ID#31868:
Have no fear, fear no have.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:08
HighRise U>(LGB2__A) ID#401460:
Is Japan open?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:06
Selby U>(Waddoya mean after all these years?) ID#287207:
I have forgotten more French than I ever knew.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:05
LGB2__A U>(Nikkei crash) ID#315256:
Nikkei crashing UP more than 3% I see. They must not read Voronsky's site over there.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:05
John Disney__A U>(This is the Season of the Bitch) ID#24140:
To all

Some of you may be following the fibonacci relationship in the Gold

Silver Ratio. 47 to one seems to be holding - we bounced up sharply

and are now at 48 on silver's sharp fall. I think this MAY be very

bullish for gold.

To Karlito - I feel remarks like ignoring the fact that

the mathematics are incorrect ( repeated in several postings ) to Vronsky

are lousy cheap shots - I think you owe us all an apology for general

snide-ness. Spock I know is very sensitive to this sort of thing as

is tgl ( whenever we are lucky enough to get a glimpse of this rare

bird ) - Also - just between us - did you really work at the Lido

To LGB - gee silver off badly - hope you werent hurt too much.

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:03
Ted U>(Tolerant1) ID#364147:
Don't tie that damn thing too tight.......

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:02
Ted U>(Selby) ID#364147:
You mean after all these years you haven't mastered the french language?

Date: Wed Dec 31 1997 00:00
tolerant1 U>(ted - selby) ID#31868:
And away we go! walk forty-seven miles of barbwire, I gotta a Cobra Snake for a necktie,

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