KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:55
newtron U>(Private Investor, Vronsky, TZADEAK & all Brethern & Systeryn & AU Sympathizers : ST..EAD....Y, ) ID#335184:
ST...EADY ! We haven't even seen the whites of their eyes yet ! When the end comes it will be with 90% probability be with a blow off in ALL-ALL equities including AU & Natural resource stocks ! A mailstrom sucks all boats under like a lifeboat not far enough from a rapidly sinking Titantic. Stand clear with cash, lock & load & get ready to stand & deliver when the Mother of all buying opprotunities presents itself.
If your gutsy & feeling lucky pick your favorite short on the next reverse dip & duck & cover & wait for the flash!
In my holy opinion there will be a counter-rally to tomorrow's dip/drop/crash, at any rate it is too late for most of us to join the attack on the DOW, Et. Al. I always knew thatsome day John Q. Public would be buying on the dips until there was nothing & no one left in the stock market but the DIPS!
HAPPY HUNTING
Y.O.S.
Tar Baby

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:51
HighRise U>(Half Time) ID#401460:
Hang Seng Index 10400.25
-353.86

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:50
Crystal Ball U>(@Tolerant1) ID#287367:
How ya doin, bro? I've decided mining shares need a little rest in here; ABX ran up 25.5% and XAU about 19% in the past 7 trading days or so...We got some volatile stock markets here! Gold's acting puny, and I hope the DJIA opens down bigtime at 9:30 am EST, draggin' the goldmines down a hair so's I can dump my ABX 20 puts at a profit and reacquire the ABX 17 1/2 calls on the cheap!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:44
northforker U>(nikkei chart) ID#39058:
http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/je3tbc/html/sthome.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:43
aurator U>(aloha) ID#255284:
Ted G’nite. Grouse news, selling your house so soon!
‘test’ “test”

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:42
A.Goose U>(more on the Nikkei 225) ID#20137:
Thursday December 18, 11:11 pm Eastern Time

Tokyo stocks weak in afternoon on Toshoku failure

TOKYO, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo stocks remained weak early on Friday afternoon, with the Nikkei average down over five percent, unable
to recover from news late on Thursday that medium-sized foodstuffs trader Toshoku Ltd ( 8034.T ) had failed, brokers said.

As of 0400 GMT the 225 Nikkei average was down 891.01 points or 5.51 percent at 15,270.63. Nikkei March futures were down 860 at
15,230.

hursday December 18, 11:20 pm Eastern Time

Tokyo stocks plummet on latest corporate collapse

By Yuzo Saeki

TOKYO, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo stocks plunged by midday on Friday, with the stock market's main barometer falling by nearly six percent in
the aftermath of foodstuffs trader Toshoku Ltd's business failure.

The Nikkei average finished the morning down 923.58 points, or 5.71 percent, at 15,238.06 -- perilously close to the psychologically important
15,000 mark that it last breached on November 14, just before Yamaichi Securities Co Ltd went bust.

A triple-digit loss for U.S. stocks overnight contributed to the grim market mood, traders said.

Investors worry that the collapse of Toshoku -- the fourth-largest bankruptcy in post-war Japan -- is an indication that Japanese banks have
tightened lending policies so severely that the economy is on the verge of a credit crunch.

Toshoku, a major player in the international grain markets, said on Thursday it was forced to file for bankruptcy protection because it was unable
to continue under the weight of its bad loans as banks turned the screws on lending.

``Investors are concerned that bank reluctance to extend loans -- as demonstrated by the Toshoku failure -- could trigger deflation in the
Japanese economy,'' a market analyst at a major brokerage said.

The pessimism on the economic outlook prompted selling in some stocks whose prices have been hovering lower than their face values, pushing
down the overall index, traders said.

The dollar also rose against the yen on the ``Toshoku shock'' and the Nikkei's plunge, although its ascent was tempered by the Bank of Japan's
( BOJ ) apparent intervention and verbal warnings against excessive rises from Japanese and U.S. officials.

The BOJ was seen selling dollars for yen intermittently in morning trading, while influential Japanese finance official Eisuke Sakakibara made
repeated comments saying Tokyo will stand up against further yen weakness.

``We will act against a excessive fall in the yen in a decisive manner,'' Sakakibara said. ``We are regularly keeping close touch with other Group
of Seven ( G7 ) nations.''

The U.S. Treasury also weighed in, saying Japanese currency intervention was consistent with U.S. concerns about the sagging yen.

``The actions taken by the Japanese authorities in the exchange markets are appropriate. We share the concerns they have expressed about the
yen,'' a Treasury spokesman said.

He declined to comment, however, on whether the United States also took part in the intervention.

The dollar was trading at just above 129 yen in early afternoon Tokyo, after closing in New York at 128.66 yen.

Japanese government bonds yields, which moves inversely to price movements, jumped by midday following the Nikkei's sharp drop and a BOJ
outright bond buying operation, traders said.

The yield on the key 182nd cash bond fell to 1.605 percent by midday on Friday from 1.625 percent on Thursday.

For Nikkei 225 try

http://personal.fidelity.com/82DEV/the_hub/html/N225.html


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:42
cherokee__A U>(@--poopie-hitting-the-fans------------------------) ID#344308:
bloomberg showing all other overseas quotes EXCEPT
japans' nikkei 225!! it shows 0.0%

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:36
A.Goose U>() ID#20137:
Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:29
JTF

Let sharefin he is sorely missed. Hope he gets his ISP squared away soon.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:35
Crystal Ball U>(@Scotty) ID#287367:
Hi Scotty! Just bought a $2 1/2 Pan Pac ( Columbia riding the hippocampus with a caduceus in her hand ) PCGS 66 for $4,235; an Old Spanish Trail half in PCGS 66 for $1,050; and a handful of PCGS Pf65 three cent nickels at $330 a pop. Helluva a bargain, whadaya say?


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:34
Ted U>(@ Tricky) ID#364147:
Hey Trickster----Feb. gold down .20 and March Silver up 1.2 cents~~~~~~~
....This time I mean it----g'night all!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:33
Buddy U>(The First Dog) ID#261151:

Evening everyone. It's bedtime and we haven't heard from the Down Under shift yet. Looking forward to your take on the Markets today.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:30
Ted U>(CherOkee) ID#364147:
Hi duuuude-----Bart: WAKE UP!....g'night all as i sleepwalk ta bed~~~~~~

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:29
JTF U>(From Forbes: Why the IMF can't fix SEAsia: It ain't over yet -- sharefin e-mail) ID#57232:
All: This is from sharefin - his ISP is still down. Very important info because it explains why the IMF doesn't have a prayer in fixing the problems in SEAsia. The problem according to this Forbes article is that it is not a liquidity crisis, it is a solvency crisis. The IMF is only equipped with bandaids to fix liquidity crises, where simple infusions of cash are sufficient. SE Asia is much worse than this because the entire economic system needs overhauling. According to Steve Hanke, what is needed is a currency basket for each country to prevent local governments from inflating their currency, and a gold-backed currency standard. Now didn't we hear something like that from AG when he gave his speech to the Cato Society last October?

It ain't over yet, A Dec 29,1997 Forbes interview with Steve Hanke by Robert Lenzner and Nigel Holloway:

http://www.forbes.com/Forbes/97/1229/6014065a.htm

I don't know how sharefin found this more than a week before the issue date. Read and enjoy! This is a real eye opener!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:26
tricky U>(Japan) ID#304282:
I haven't gotton a quote since 9:02. This is too long to be a lunch break isn't it? How are gold and silver doing?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:24
TZADEAK* U>(@EB my poor old tired eyes say thanx.) ID#374211:


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:23
HighRise U>(Yahoo Not working Either) ID#401460:
Nikkei 225 ( N225 )
Last Quote
Change
Percent Change
Last Quote Time
15276.22
-885.42
-5.48%
@23:10

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:22
BillinOregon U>(financial sun is setting in the east) ID#262242:
Something is going on in the east or Yahoo's stock browser is not updating. Trading has stopped for all countrys in the east for over 1/2 hour. All Asian countrys are down, Japan big time, over 5%. Hong Kong is sick to. Tomorrow will be a very interesting day.

Hi Reify - love the jokes

Hi DJ - ready set, prepare to jump ( into the markets )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:22
newtron U>(DA -ELECTRONIC PURCHASE OF T-BONDS = HYPER INFLATION AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT @ 186,000 mi/ hr/second/ ) ID#335184:
/second, more or less!!!!! Can we document this fiendish circumvention of the time honored process of counterfeiting & debasing the currency, i.e. the printing press ?
If so, your scoop re sucker rally in bonds is sensational indeed!
Can you imagine how bond holders will feel ? Sort of like a Yamaichi share holder.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:21
A.Goose U>(Nikkei 225) ID#20137:
This is better than yahoo. Nick gave it to us awhile back.

http://personal.fidelity.com/82DEV/the_hub/html/N225.html



[back to indexes]
Nikkei 225 ( N225 )
Last Quote
Change
Percent Change
Last Quote Time
Open
Previous Close
Previous Close Date
15276.22
-885.42
-5.48
23:10
16104.80
16161.64
12/18/97

Today's High
Today's Low
52 Week High
52 Week Low
High Value Life
Low Value Life
16104.80
15218.28
20910.79
14966.13
38915.87
85.25

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:18
cherokee__A U>(@----bart---it-is-almost-impossible-to-get-in!!----we've-suffered-since-the-80's) ID#344308:

the great bear spirit i spoke to at big bear lake, ca
3 weeks ago warned of the impending death and evisceration
of the bull. the bear spirit threatened to sing 'cherokee
people' by cher, if i did not say hi to ted ( for the bear ) , and
warn all who would listen, of the condition, of the horned-one.

hi ted

take heed------for 3 weeks i've said, and you've read, what the
big lake bear had said. once again, 13 days ( or less ) and counting.
archives tell the tale.........

cherokee!; ) ------standing-on-the-shoulders-of-giants- ( and bears )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:17
NJ U>(Thoughts on free markets) ID#352177:
US employers are always willing to pay what it takes when luring top talent away from the competition. So why cant it happen in the international markets.Imagine the salaries CBs would be willing to pay at this time to the likes of Rubin and Greenspan.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:14
Ted U>(@ Tolerant1) ID#364147:
How's things in Huntington t'night bro?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:12
Ted U>(@ EB + double posting(or psychic sh!t)) ID#364147:
The judge---he da man ( HAHAHAHAHA ) .... go gold!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:10
tolerant1 U>(EB) ID#31868:
So you have not come down out of that short gold tree eh. Well I hope you have made some solid gains. I think it is getting very late in that game though.

Now silver on the other hand is getting ready for a fabulous year. Good luck in that regard as well.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:08
IDT U>(Bankruptcy) ID#228128:
DA: I agree in principle with your arguement. One unintended consequence of the explosion in money supply is that while prices have been rising salaries have been stagnating in the U.S. Bankruptcy filings are epidemic. Are we looking at Stagflation? As an aside, I am hearing more and more from freinds, family, and coworkers about how they are having difficulty making it. They don't understand why its getting increasingly difficult to make ends meet. Years of lying about the true rate of inflation has hurt many dearly because their cost of living increases have been tied to the official inflation stats which grossly understating the true cost of living. They may throw us into recession as they inflate the money supply. Thoughts?.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:07
D.A. U>(at.the.diner) ID#7568:
Savage:

I don't have a lot of thoughts on OJ. We are long from our system but have no discretionary bets in place. The rally from 75 to 90 changed the risk reward enough so that we didn't think that the options bet was worth it. Last I looked the implied vols were still enormous. The El Nino effect is still very much in play and a freeze is a higher probability event this year because of it. Unfortunately the market has priced this in so we stay away.

In keeping with the breakfast food theme we are begining to root around in the pig sty. Another 5 or 10 cents down in bacon futures might do the trick. Long truffles is another way to play.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:06
Scotty U>(Checking in) ID#290271:
Hi everyone! I've still been lurking and just hanging out. So, how about that hi-ho-silver!! But jeeez, how about that oh-no-low-gold? I just don't get it. Regardless, I was in a little bit of silver and I think I'll hang on to it until the $8 point. I just-a-keepa-buyin' the gold and hope my ship will come in!

On an interesting side note, numismatic gold is actually starting to head north! Here's my theory: although ( I sure ) many here are buying the physical gold, the gold market is indeed worldwide and is driven by forces much stronger than a bunch of gold-bugs buying up a few Maple Leafs. However, the numismatic gold market has a fininte supply. Since the price of bullion is so low, it is drawing new people into the market -- which spills over to the numismatic side. Ergo, the numismatic side is seeing an increased demand -- and there is no CB or A. Greenspan to stand in the way.

At any rate, nice to jump back in the fray!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:04
Ted U>(Late night XXX Joke(stolen) ) ID#364147:
A woman was driving through the countryside late at night when her car
broke down. Not
knowing anything about cars, she started to walk. A mile down the road,
she came to an old
country farmhouse and knocked on the door until two young men came out.

Kin we help ya, miss?

Yes, my car broke down about mile back. I wonder if you could drive me
to the nearest town so
I can get a tow truck?

Well, now, the town's all shut up right now and don't open back up until
tomorrow mornin'.
But ah'll tell ya what, miss, mah brother here an ah'll tow yer car over
to the farmhouse and you
kin spend the night here with us.

The woman thought, Well, I really don't have a choice. Besides, I can
handle myself, so she
agreed.

After the two brothers towed her car back to the farmhouse, and they were
getting ready for bed,
the first one said, Yah know, miss, we only got one bed in this here
house, so ah'm afraid ya'll
have ta sleep with us.

The woman thought about it, and consented. As they were taking their
clothes off, the woman
said, By the way, you DO have protection, don't you?

Protection? What's that?

You know, condoms.

Well, what're they for?

It's so I don't get pregnant.

We're simple country folk, miss. Ah'm afraid we don't know about those
things.

Well, it just so happens that I have two here in my purse. Here, put
them on.

Hmm... well, all right.

The three of them got into bed and did their thing all night. The next
morning, the brothers drove
the woman into town, where she got her car repaired and drove off. About
a month later, the two
brothers were sitting out on their porch watching the sun set, when the
first one said, Hey, d'ya
remember that lady that drove through here about a month ago?

Yep. She was real good, wasn't she.

Yep. Say, do you care if she gets pregnant?

Nope.

Well, then, let's take these durn things off!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 23:00
Lurker 777 U>(Kitco 2) ID#317247:
I believe we require an alternate site when Kitco 1 jams up. I have posted on Kitco 2 ( Discussion About Gold & Silver Bars, Coins, and Stocks ) without any difficulties. I would surmise that the traffic would still be too unmanageable but it is worth a try. Bart we need some help here.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:59
HighRise U>(JAPAN) ID#401460:
Friday's morning decline topped the year's worst full-day drop of 884.11
points, or 5.29 percent, recorded on Nov. 19.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:59
A.Goose U>(the Nicks) ID#20137:
Where are the Nicks from Australia?

Hey guys ( Nick ) we are really interested in what is going on over there this evening. What is the skinny on Japan ... tonight.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:58
EB U>(........From earlier today........To which I say........twinkle toes........uh huh.....) ID#22956:
Tol1-I am still long silver....but it is 'capped'.....I will wait to possibly buy more lower ( buy the dip ) . I look for weakness or strength in markets and try to take advantage any way I can. And when I am winning I will try to squeeze as much as I see prudent. Sometimes my prudence gets the best of me.....and I get singed fingers.......I tell myself this keeps me nimble, you know, twinkle-toed...;- ) I will admit here though that I will stay in this gold-shorting biz for as long as I can. I think 'Frustrated' made a good post the other day when he spoke of massive short positions and short traders making a KILLING. They, like me, ( or me like them ) will continue the barrage from EVERY angle. They ( we,I ) will pour it on thick...oh yes....until they get caught by the eventual Bull. I will have the cuts and scars and broken bones to prove it. The irony here would be that the same people making money on the way down will be making the same money on the way up ( eventually ) . To add, the people who buy the physical all the way down will profit too.....love that? Buy gold...........Buy now ;- )

And I ain't climbing up no tree........I'm gonna face death by gore head-on.......uh huh....ohmy............and I will keep my SI spread.....it is still making $$.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:29

TZADEAK* ( @ I for one, will no longer read thru poststhataretypedthisway! )

ID#372344:

............to which I add... toeachhisown.....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Crystal Ball - You are scaring me man.......do it because YOU want to, right Good luck.........:-0

ALLEN ( USA ) - This is true......but then we also gave to them ( the world who hates us ) Jimmy Buffett......and hula-hoops............and Pizza Hut...........damn lucky mates.......diddly-darn-burnit-dagnabit!!

Hey Ted, That ole Judge woulda taken 165........yup....sure...

go gold~~~~~~~~~~~~like lead~~~~~~~~~~~~...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

away...

Éßwashinglgbsfeet

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:58
Ted U>(What's the problemO Bart) ID#364147:
Panda: Don't think this has anything to do with a large # of hits as most have probably given up tryin to access this site...More ISP BS! S+P Futures down 7.70~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:55
ValuePro U>( Savage / Re: Lock 'n Load) ID#25758:

A military training term from the firing range. Means put the weapon on safety, and load ammo.. Be prepared to unlock the safety and commence firing.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:55
IDT U>(Thanks Lurker 777) ID#228128:
Great site. It even downloads the data to you in SAS fixed format, a welcome surprise because I aim to use SAS to whap out some analyses.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:48
D.A. U>(oh.when.that.debt.comes.marchin.in) ID#7568:
All:

Many here have spoken about what would happen if the Japanese or the rest of the world dumped our bonds. Consensus was that long rates would go higher as the world found itself awash with our paper. This was then going to cause a recession, depression, meltdown. The first part of this prediction is coming true. This week the Fed reported that foreign CB's dumped more than $11,000,000,000 of our treasuries. They have now sold something like $40,000,000,000 ( must go back and look this up ) since their peak holdings of the summer.

The second part of the story has a different twist. Why aren't long rates in the US going higher? Easy, the US Fed is simply printing ( electroning? ) greenbacks and buying 'em back for cash. This is why our money supply is exploding. What does this mean? As long as the dollar stays strong, and the Yen bond is 1.6% this game can go on and on. This looks to me like the greatest sucker rally in the bond market that the world has ever seen. With the constant barage of deflationary news bulls*&t it will take a while before folks catch on. When they finally do, then the real fun ( ? ) will begin. As people begin to realize that they have been duped, there will be a massive flight in stuff. Lord help the those that have their 'wealth' denominated in fiat electrons.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:48
ValuePro U>(Japanese markets ) ID#25758:
close for lunch.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:43
Barb Hughes U>(Thank you..Y2KBug for response) ID#20783:
Thank you for the post.
Will check out sites in morning...my cust has also rec: http://www.garynorth.com ......I remember 74' & espc JAN 80'...I Did very well... that's why I can now be here. Tonight we ask Santa GOLD up--SILVER up and all will be somewhat ok for a while. Until we wake to the silence of no computer connection. ( That is if there is any credience to what these folks are saying! ) Take care, be well and thanks again for the help!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:39
Barney U>(@ I got on) ID#260194:

Japan must have shut down. Still no quote since 9:02. Every country
that is open for trading is in the red. Watch out tomorrow.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:34
panda U>(Slow response time at Kitco...) ID#30116:
I can only surmise that the slow response time at Kitco is due to either a huge number of hits on this site or a hub leading to this site is having a bad day or two. If this is due to a large influx of 'lurkers', then do we have the makings of a 'surprise' rally here? :- )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:32
Crystal Ball U>(@All) ID#287367:
I've had trouble accessing this site all day. What in blue blazes is going on in Japan and why?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:29
Lurker 777 U>(Kitco 2 seems to work!) ID#317247:
KITCO 2

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 22:04
Y2KBug__A U>(Barb Hughes) ID#234311:
Sorry so long in returning your post. If you have access to the comp.software.year-2000 newsgroup, there's a good place to start. It is frequented by big-iron programmers and others who have first-hand experience ( or are seeking it ) , with vast amounts of real-world experience. There's a survey going on amongst the lurkers there as to their perception of the severity of the problem on a 1 to 5 scale, where 1 is no problem at all and 5 is total collapse of economy, start your hoarding now. Current average is well over 4.

Also, there is a nightly Y2K chat room from 8 to 10 pm EST, http://www.ntplx.net/~rgearity/chat.html

( requires Java-enabled browser ) , which might be a good place to ask some questions. Me personally, I'm scared, but the demand for programmers has my paychecks skyrocketing ( 50% in 4 months ) . I figure that's about as good an indicator as any that Y2K is actually getting som attention. As tolerant1 mentioned, Yourdon's site ( www.yourdon.com ) is a primo place for information. A goo compilation of Y2K in the news can be found at http://www.year2000.com/y2karticles.html

Hope this helps.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:57
Mr. Smith U>(SPEAKING OF CYBER-TENSION....) ID#348353:
I've always blamed internet slowness on my Model-T modem. Does anymany have a good front row seat for watching Nikeii meltdown? Many thanks.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:49
Ted U>(I can add some more GLOOM to the evening) ID#364147:
S+P Futures down 9.40....anyone else still having trouble accessing this site and posting or is this another cape Breton 'thingy'

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:48
vronsky U>(GROWING CYBER-TENSION WAITING FOR THE NIKKEI TO REOPEN) ID#426220:
Can any one else feel the growing tension of thousands of eyes glued to the monitors awaiting the resumption of TOKYO trading, which will certainly set the tone and pace for Europe's and Wall Street for Friday morning?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:41
Tantalus Rex U>(Bundesbank and the European Bank) ID#295111:
So, Germany will NOT sell its gold and the European Bank WILL hold gold reserves. WOW...Am I surprised?

I guess that Buffalo Stud from England got the surprise of his life, that Sir A-Hole.

The real question now is how much gold will they hold. My guess is it will be substantial in order to give that Eurodollar much more credibility and safe haven status. If it is substantial, the ECB will start buying their gold now and the guys who sold short will also be in for a big surprise.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:36
Cyclist U>(cycles etc) ID#339274:
Savage Good starting point I recommend is to purchase Frank A. Taucher
Supertrader's Almanac.The 1998 edition should be out by now.It deals
with linear,seasonal and astro cycles of different commodities.
To add trading discipline will make a powerful combo. Good luck.
The adress is: Market Movements,Inc. 5212 East 69th Place,Tulsa,OK 74136.
Ph:918-493-2897
Good Luck

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:35
farfel U>(TO HELL WITH GOLD....LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING TO SILVER!!!! ) ID#28585:
Gentlemen, looks like gold-bugs with SILVER markings are about to be rewarded. Is it really possible that silver will go through the roof this ferociously? Are the fundamentals really that strong?

WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO SSC TOMORROW? EEEGADS!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:34
vronsky U>(MAXIMUM ONE DAY NEEKEI LOSS?) ID#426220:
Does anyone know the record one day Nekkei loss? In poins and percent?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:33
pdeep U>(Yen rises vs US$) ID#174103:
Yen/$ down to around 128 from 129. BOJ selling T-bills? I wonder if that means T-bills will take a hit tomorrow?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:32
WDL U>(@ Nikkei ) ID#24095:
Vronsky: Your 21:17 post...I believe the Nikkei closes down for one hour about noon their time...not sure if this is the explanation.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:32
WDL U>(@ Nikkei ) ID#24095:
Vronsky: Your 21:17 post...I believe the Nikkei closes down for one hour about noon their time...not sure if this is the explanation.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:28
Neophyte U>(Apparently gold down today on producer selling) ID#390249:

the daily PM report I get today said that gold was down on producer selling in the face of potentially bullish fundamental news. The bullish news apparently was Bundesbank's Tietmeyer ruling out CB sales at a press conference today.

I have heard producers were selling for year end purposes and would have been selling almost regardless of the price. This should stop 1/1/98. I am becoming increasing bullish by the day on gold.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:23
NJ U>(Nikkei) ID#352177:
Nikkei has two trading sessions in a day. Break for luncheon, you know. The afternoon session starts at 10 pm e.s.t. I think.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:23
bej U>(There is reference to Gold in this story.) ID#263133:
Dear Sirs:
I’m currently running the latest version of Girlfriend and I’ve been having some problems recently. I’ve been running the same version of DrinkingBuddies 1.0 forever as my primary application, and all the GirlFriend releases I’ve tried have always conflicted with it. I hear that DrinkingBuddies won’t crash if GirlFriend is run in the background mode and the sound is turned off. But I’m embarrassed to say I can’t find the switch to turn the sound off. I just run them separately, and it works okay.

GirlFriend also seems to have a problem co-existing with my Golf program, often trying to abort Golf with some sort of timing incompatibility. I probably should have stayed with GirlFriend 1.0, but I thought I might see better performance from GirlFriend 2.0. After months of conflicts and other problems, I consulted a friend who had had experience with GirlFriend 2.0. He said I probably didn’t have enough cache and eventually it would require a Token Ring to run properly. He was right. As soon as I purged my cache, it uninstalled itself.

Shortly after that, I installed GirlFriend 3.0 beta. All the bugs were supposed to be gone, but the first time I used it, it gave me a virus anyway. I had to clean out my whole system and shut down for a while. I very cautiously upgraded GirlFriend 3.0. This time I used a SCSI probe first, and also installed a virus protection program. It worked okay for awhile until I discovered that GirlFriend 1.0 was still in my system. I tried running GirlFriend 1.0 again with GirlFriend 3.0still installed, but Girlfriend 3.0 has a feature I didn’t know about that automatically senses the presence of any other version of GirlFriend and communicates with it in some way, which results in the immediate removal of both versions.

The version I have now works pretty well, but there are still some problems. Like all versions of GirlFriend, it is written in some obscure language I can’t understand, much less reprogram. Frankly, I think there is too much attention paid to the look and feel rather than the desired functionality. Also, to get the best connections with your hardware, you usually have to use gold-plated contacts. And I’ve never liked how GirlFriend is totally object-oriented.

A year ago, a friend of mine upgraded his version of GirlFriend to GirlFriendPlus 1.0, which is a Terminate and Stay resident version of GirlFriend. He discovered that GirlFriendPlus 1.0 expires within a year if you don’t upgrade to Fiance’ 1.0. So he did, but soon after that, he had to upgrade to Wife 1.0, which he describes as a huge resource hog. It has taken up all his space, so he can’t load anything else.

One of the primary reasons he decided to go with Wife 1.0 was because it came bundled with FreeSexPlus. Well it turns out that the resource allocation module of Wife 1.0 sometimes prohibits access to FreeSexPlus, particularly the new Plug-Ins he wanted to try. On top of that, Wife 1.0 must be running on a well warmed-up system before he can do anything.

Although he did not ask for it, Wife 1.0 also came with MotherInLaw 1.0, which has an automatic pop-up feature he can’t turn off. I told him to try installing Mistress 1.0 but he said he’d heard that if you try to run it without first uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.0 won’t install anyway because of insufficient resources..

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:22
LGB2__A U>(@ Something Wicked this way comes.......) ID#315256:
There are changes in the wind...I can feel it, I'm not being satirical, a change of course may be at hand. In order to make the Prof ( and others ) happy, I will maintain silence for a time as I digest some info. recently uncovered. You may see a gross change in investment philosophy from this quarter.......

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:22
223 U>(Speed: What is special about SSC?) ID#26669:
Nothing special, really, except this year I'm long in it, and it's fairly predicatable and whenever the market goes up is widely traded as it goes to an overbought condition. It's kind of like CHV or T in that it goes up and I sell and it goes down and I buy ( and sometimes vice versa ;- ) . ) It has a problem, though that it's so low priced that brokerage fees are really expensive buying it and selling it so I'm holding it long term. As for SSO, if I were buying silver stock new today, I'd probably look at it harder than SSC, but I'm accumulating FGLDX and pondering PGMS so am running out of money to use on silver stocks.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:20
Savage U>(OJ) ID#280222:
D.A.........have you been watching OJ? What do you think?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:18
BillD U>(Nikkei) ID#261269:
Either the Nikkei has quit trading at 9:02 , or QUOTE.YAHOO HAS quit reporting it....


Japan
Nikkei 225
^N225
9:02PM
15238.06
-923.58
-5.71%

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:17
vronsky U>(TOKYO TRADING MAY HAVE BEEN HALTED) ID#426220:
THE NEKKEI has been showing a loss of exactly 924 points ( -5.7% ) for the last 17 minutes, which might indicate trading has been halted. Does anyone know for sure? Also, the Tokyo gold quotes have been stuck at UP 1.2% ( +14Yen/gram ) for more than 40 minutes.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:17
LGB2__A U>(@ Voyeur Professor) ID#315256:
He Prof! Re your 16:41, you're one of the very first I've seen on this site who loves his own brilliant posts that he feels compelled to repost them! Hubris you said? You're teaching me by example hey Prof

Hey, feel free to repost that long droning incomprehensible tome, several more times if you like! It won't change a thing I said re Puetz, existentialism, world absolutes, the price of Gold, or anything else that matters in this life. Ohhhh how I love the academics of the wrold. You know what they say..those who can't do.....teach!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:17
Savage U>() ID#280222:
Could anyone ( or several ) give me the historical perspective of the expression, lock and load!? ...thanks

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:16
NJ U>(Hongkong) ID#352177:
Down 3.7 % in 15 minutes. http://quote.yahoo.com/intlmarkets

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:11
Lurker 777 U>(IDT) ID#317247:
http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:11
Savage U>(cycles) ID#280222:
CYCLIST: Where did you learn about cycles? Could you recommend any books or sites on the subject? Thanks in advance.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:08
IDT U>(currency corner) ID#228128:
Anyone know where I can get currency data, especially the kind that you can download, on the Indonesian Rupiah, Brazilian Real, and Chinese Renmimbi ( if its a floating currency ) ? Thanks in advance.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:07
pdeep U>(Nikkei market cap) ID#174103:
Anybody have any idea how much market capitalization has just evaporated in Japan?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:06
Tortfeasor U>(EBN) ID#371247:
Just looked at EBN. Yep folks we are back in the Bunker Hunt days all over again. Just think, the silver I bought yesterday for $6.00 an ounce is now worth $46.09. Is this a great country or what? Seriously though folks this Japan debacle bodes poorly for the US markets tomorrow. In the old days Made in Japan was a laughing matter. Today it is mad in Japan and we will be angry too. The paper guys will have something to cry into.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:05
WDL U>(...wounds my heart with a monotonous languor.) ID#24095:
Nikkei meltdown! Bloomberg News has Nikkei at 15, 349...U.S. markets may tank as well...it could be D-Day on Wall Street..S&P Futures at this hour down nearly 10 points to 955.80 ..should be very interesting!
Triple Witching tomorrow.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:05
BillD U>(Nekkei) ID#261269:
Must look terrible to them...Having this computer is like having a front row seat at the end of the world ( as someone said about living in LA!!

Last report:


Japan
Nikkei 225
^N225
9:02PM
15238.06
-923.58
-5.71%

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:04
IDT U>(Chinese Renmimbi) ID#228128:
Bill Buckler, Anyone: Is the Chinese Renmimbi a fixed currency or a floating one. If fixed, is it fixed to the U.S. $ and at what amount?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 21:02
Petronius U>(A way to save Japan!) ID#17155:
Since we now have:
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 8:59PM 15238.06 -923.58 -5.71%

I think it is time to help out our Japanese friends with some advice.
1. Sell ALL Dollars
2. Sell ALL Bonds
3. Stop subsidizing US socialism
4. If you need to piss away money, build yourself a military
5. There are better ways ( see point 4 ) to employ your people than working them to death to provide USA with cheap products and accepting toilet paper in return

Otherwise, enjoy the asphalt!!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:59
vronsky U>(TOTAL MASSACRE OF STOCKS IN TOKYO) ID#426220:
NEKKEI DOWN 890 POINTS ( -5.5% ) . pRICES FALLING FASTER THAN COMPUTER CAN RELOAD.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:59
vronsky U>(TOTAL MASSACRE OF STOCKS IN TOKYO) ID#426220:
NEKKEI DOWN 890 POINTS ( -5.5% ) . pRICES FALLING FASTER THAN COMPUTER CAN RELOAD.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:59
vronsky U>(TOTAL MASSACRE OF STOCKS IN TOKYO) ID#426220:
NEKKEI DOWN 890 POINTS ( -5.5% ) . pRICES FALLING FASTER THAN COMPUTER CAN RELOAD.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:57
tolerant1 U>(hmmmmmmmmmmmmm) ID#31868:
Thursday December 18, 8:00 pm Eastern Time

BOJ to make $1.5 bln bridge loan to S.Korea--media

TOKYO, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - Japan will make a short-term loan of about $1.5 billion through the Bank of Japan ( BOJ ) to South Korea on Friday to bridge the gap until the IMF releases the second installment of its emergency loan to Seoul, financial daily Nihon Keizai Shimbun said.

The IMF ( International Monetary Fund ) said on Thursday its executive board had approved the release of the second $3.5 billion loan installment to help the nation's economy get back on course, adding that South Korean authorities were moving swiftly to implement an economic reform programme.

The newspaper said the bridge loan would be separate from the $10 billion Japan has already pledged in financial support to South Korea to augment an IMF assistance package.

A BOJ spokesman declined immediate comment on the report.

The Nihon Keizai also said Japan was considering continuing bridge financing beyond Friday and that the total amount of the bridge loan might equal the $3.5 billion of the second installment of the IMF's total $21 billion yen loan.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:57
pdeep U>(One reason for Nikkei drop) ID#174103:
This is the time of year that Japanese construction firms execute new credit contracts with financial centers for next year's round of overbuilding. I suspect that credit is hard to come by, even with the massive yen inflation. So I would expect a lot of these companies to go belly up.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:56
tolerant1 U>(Hmmmmmmmmmm) ID#31868:
Thursday December 18, 7:58 pm Eastern Time

BOJ said to have sold dollars for yen--traders

TOKYO, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - The Bank of Japan ( BOJ ) was believed to have sold dollars for yen at 129.50 yen on Friday morning, traders said.

The dollar fell quickly below 129 yen on apparent BOJ dollar sales before recovering to around 129.30 yen at 0055 GMT.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:55
Petronius U>(Go Nikkei Go! Do I hear -1000?) ID#17155:
Now more than %5 or 800 points down.
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 8:53PM 15344.16 -817.48 -5.06%

Sell those damn dollar already!? Will you?!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:52
vronsky U>(RELENTLESS POUNDING OF NEKKEI) ID#426220:
NEKKEI continues in free-fall down 770 points for -4.8% loss. IMHO, if the BOJ does NOT stem the bleeding, the Nekkei is heading for a 1000 point loss day!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:52
BillD U>(Nekkei) ID#261269:
down 5% ...-817

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:51
tolerant1 U>(Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm) ID#31868:
Thursday December 18, 8:07 pm Eastern Time

Japan to act decisively vs yen weakness-Sakakibara

TOKYO, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - Japan will take decisive action against excessive weakness in the yen, Eisuke Sakakibara, Vice Finance Minister for International Affairs, told Reuters on Friday.

``We will act against the yen's excessive weakness in a decisive manner,'' Sakakibara said.

``We are regularly keeping close touch with other Group of Seven ( G7 ) nations. We think G7 nations understand Japan's actions,'' he added.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:45
vronsky U>(NEKKEI BEING PUMMELED) ID#426220:
NEKKEI now down 700 points, a day's loss so far -4.4%

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:42
a.j. U>(Karlito99: hissing sound) ID#256201:
Methinks it be the lonely garrilous brat preparing to leap on you.
Woops!! It did.
Now you have your hands full.
So solly cholly! ( :+^}

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:42
vronsky U>(BLACK FRIDAY IN JAPAN!) ID#426220:
It may be infanously known someday as TOKYO'S BLACK FRIDAY: Nekkei being mercilessly hammered down 677 points for a -4.2% loss so far... and rhe day 'ain't' over yet

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:39
tolerant1 U>(ah, hello) ID#31868:
What's with EBN on silver

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:37
vronsky U>(NEKKEI IN KAMAKAZE DIVE) ID#426220:
Stocks plunging in TOKYO: Nekkei DOWN 601 points in free-fall -3.72%

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:36
tolerant1 U>(Barb Hughes) ID#31868:
Hmmm. Gold testing $240.00 - Having recently returned from the dentist to have my shoe removed from my mouth I will venture forth again and say that I do not think we will see gold at $240.00 - this financial crisis is starting to unwind in a bad way. I had stated on this forum that I thought the Dow would be at 5000 and gold would be $400 on or around December 15th 1997.

I think gold will take off like a wasp on acid in the not too distant future. It is getting very close to launch time IMVHO.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:27
MoReGoLd U>(@SILVER ALERT /// SILVER ALERT) ID#348129:
EBN showing silver: 46.12 UP 40.04 658.55%. Any sellers out there ? Have the hunts regrouped ? HeHeHe

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:25
Barb Hughes U>(tolerant1) ID#20783:
Thank you..You hit it on the nail. This was the release my cust. sent me.

What do you think of us testing $240 G.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:22
tolerant1 U>(and they're up, down, up, down, up, downnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn) ID#31868:
Thursday December 18, 8:01 pm Eastern Time

Tokyo Hot Stocks: Renown, Sumitomo Metal Ind

TOKYO, Dec 19 ( Reuters ) - The following are stocks on the move:

0052 GMT - Renown Inc ( 8021.T ) down by daily limit of 30 at 35, falling below face value of 50 for first time.

Brokers say financial worries about clothing manufacturer spurring active sales. Company officials not immediately available for comment on stock price fall.

0040 GMT - Sumitomo Metal Industries Ltd ( OTC BB:SMMLY - news; 5405.T ) down four at 216. Sumitomo Sitix Corp ( 5725.OS ) ask-only at 2,070, compared with Thursday close of 2,150. Sumitomo Metal Industries said on Thursday it would merge with Sumitomo Sitix on October 1, 1998. One Sumitomo Sitix share will be exchanged for 8.8 shares of Sumitomo Metal Industries.

0021 GMT - Toshoku Ltd ( 8034.T ) ask-only at 27, compared with its Thursday close of 33. The foodstuffs trading house on Thursday filed for court protection from creditors,becoming fourth-largest bankruptcy in postwar Japan.

0021 GMT - Foodstuffs companies such as Nisshin Flour Milling Co Ltd ( 2002.T ) , ask-only at 908, and Nagatanien Co Ltd ( 2899.T ) ask-only at 763. Brokers said sales emerged due to aftershocks of failure of Toshoku.

0014 GMT - Fujita Corp ( 1806.T ) up 3 at 51, Sakura Bank Ltd ( 8314.T ) ask-only at 480, Tokai Bank Ltd ( 8321.T ) ask-only at 655.

Construction firm Fujita said on Thursday it will borrow funds from main creditor bank Tokai and Sakura for redemption of its corporate bonds. Sakura separately said on Thursday it has outstanding credit to failed trading house Toshoku Ltd ( 8034.T ) of 106.9 billion yen.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:21
Haggis__A U>(Nikkei News.............) ID#398105:

G'Day,

You may find this of interest, if you wish to track the Nikkei: http:/satellite.nikkei.co.ip/enews/

Aye, Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:21
MoReGoLd U>(@This from a bull who was predicting DOW 10000 : It's a bear market, Acampora told reporters.) ID#348129:
Thursday December 18, 7:33 pm Eastern Time

Stocks spin lower as bullish forecaster changes tune

( Adds details, analyst comment )

NEW YORK, Dec. 18 ( Reuters ) - U.S. stocks closed sharply lower Thursday as Wall Street got another case of the jitters, this time from a bearish forecast by one of Wall Street's long-time market bulls.

Investors were also uneasy about the prospect that weak Asian economies will hurt the earnings of U.S. multinational companies.

Based on early and unofficial data, the Dow Jones industrial average ended down 110.91 points at 7,846.50.

In the broader market, declining issues beat advances by a 19-10 margin on active volume of more than 619 million shares on the New York Stock Exchange.

The Nasdaq composite index was off 24.18 points at 1,523.18.

Ralph Acampora, Prudential Securities' chief technical strategist, said the market could see a nasty correction as he forecast a bear market in 1998.

Prudential's director of technical research, who had been predicting that the Dow would reach 10,000 by the middle of next year, said he expects the majority of stocks to suffer declines of 20 percent or more next year.

It's a bear market, Acampora told reporters.

Acampora made the comments first to clients Thursday morning and then at an annual strategy forecast luncheon.

Wall Street also focused on a government report on the latest month's trade deficit amid predictions the numbers will likely start to deteriorate as the Asian economic crisis starts to be felt in the coming months.

``In a nervous market when one of Wall Street's best known technicians who has been a big bull turns bearish, it causes people to say 'I don't know whether he is right but I think we should be a little more cautious,'' said Alfred Kugel, Stekugelin Roe & Farnham senior investment strategist.

Among the big movers, Eastman Kodak gained 1-1/2 to 58 after announcing that it would eliminate 16,600 jobs -- 6,600 more than originally expected -- in a restructuring that will cost the company $1.5 billion.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:18
vronsky U>(TOKYO GOLD UP IN EARLY FRIDAY TRADING) ID#426220:
GOLD IS UP 1.2% at 10:20AM TOKYO time. Once at following site, CLICK on Tokyo Gold button:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/quotes/goldcorner.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:17
Ted U>(am I stupid or what) ID#364147:
Bulghar not Bulhar dummie ( should stick to nail-pounding....eh! ) What the hell is wrong with gold tonight

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:15
tolerant1 U>(Barb Hughes) ID#31868:
Have you been to http://www.yourdon.com I think you will enjoy the thoughts contained therein relative to Y2K.



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:15
Ted U>(Earl) ID#364147:
Thankx Earl!!!....Come on,I think the bulhar and wheat germ would grow on ya!....Will miss this site ( yeah,I have a life ( ) but should be back online by November as sawdust and 'puters' don't mix too well...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:11
Isure U>(headache) ID#368247:

Have come to realize the more I know, the less I understand. Upon my reading of the thoughts of so many, now realize that I am not alone,therefore will go hunting and pray for divine intervention. hoping that my pot of gold might be larger on my return. Good luck from

the bayous of Louisiana.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:11
Haggis__A U>(Aysha................) ID#398105:

G'Day Aysha from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

Good time to open a GOLD mine in Malaysia ! If you may any interests along those lines, we ( I am a Geologist and my associates Contract Miners and Consultants ) in Kalgoorlie would be most interested in on-going discussions. a neat summary of resource potential in Malaysia can be found - South East Asian Oil, Gas, Coal and Mineral Deposits by Charles Hutchison, ISBN0 19 854295 X. The main gold belt in Malaysia extends nrothwrds from Peninsular Malaysia through thailand immediately to the east of and parallel to the Bentong-Raub palaeo-Tethys Suture. Most of the historical mining has been from placer deposits, essentailly eroded from in-situ lode deposits. There have been two significant hard rock producers, the Raub Australia gold mine, and the Toh Moh. This would suggest that a clear focused exploration-development programme would yield significant results. What do you think?
Aye, Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 20:06
vronsky U>(The Great Deception: Government Bonds, Money and South-East Asia) ID#426220:

If we accept that government bonds and currencies are at best an illusion of wealth, and that stock markets trading at 5 times book value may be over-priced in view of falling profits and currency upheaval, then the only investment alternative is gold. Realizing this, governments have driven down the price of gold. In order for the world to continue to believe in the government promoted illusion, the price of gold must continue to fall. If the world were not on the edge of an economic collapse, the price of gold would not be so low. An analysis by John Kutyn:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/kutyn121797.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:58
steady U>(Call Hashimoto-Need More Control!!!) ID#285309:
Nikkei dropping like a rock, down 577 points, low of the day.
Globex futures down 600. Nice start!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:58
pyramid U>(Cherokee) ID#217268:
Cherokee: You are in rare form tonight! Go get 'em ...

To all: Tomorrow's is triple witching .

Cheers.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:53
TZADEAK* U>(@I predicted IMF Gold Sales in my Dec 09/97 13:10 Just ONE of Their 'WEAPONS OF MASS DECEPTION') ID#372344:


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:53
Barb Hughes U>(Y2KBug comments) ID#20783:
You seem to be a knowlegeable chap... I've been in the precious metals markets since the late 60's. Was previously with Mother Honey ( well ) in the early 60's. Recently received from a cust a new release of a year 2000 book ...Scares the heck out of me ...but reality dictates... how much is hype and how much could really happen Two digits, yes I remember as a date but, haven't the mega corps upgraded their systems?

Also to OTHERS here, I notice a lot of congestion at the 240 area in gold... do you think we will test it?

Let me know what you think...........!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:53
hipshot U>(useful signal) ID#401349:
For the gold stock jockeys, the one day blip in pog gave
us a very useful indicator of which stocks will be most
sensitive to a serious move up. The seniors responded, but
I particularly liked the movement in gsc, bgo, en, fn, tlq, metlf,
and a few more of the juniors. Serious money will be made
here. IMHO, buy the physical for whatever comfort it gives you,
but the real money will come from the paper gold and silver.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:51
a.j. U>(Nick@C- You and POGO(extinct possum)) ID#256201:
Not an insult, Mate!!
I am comparing your earlier post which was quoted by EB on 12/18/97@10:28 with the statement by POGO, a now extinct American comic strip.
The statement which you echoed so well in the post quoted by EB was : WE have met the ENEMY and he is US.
Bravo from a non anti-antipodean. ( :+^}

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:48
vronsky U>(MONEY SUPPLY RISES AGAIN - Broadest Measure of Money Supply M3 SOARS) ID#426220:

Latest Fed Report shows the broadest measure of money supply M3 at very high 10.5%. Money supply at these elevated levels will give impetus to rising inflation.

The Hong Kong Oracle, Milhouse, has always maintained there is a positive correlation between the trends of money supply ( M3 ) and the price of gold. In light of M3’s accelerating growth rate in recent months - the highest increase in over a decade, and nearly DOUBLE the Fed’s upper range guideline - it is well worth a re-study of Milhouse’s analysis, “US MONEY SUPPLY AND THE DEMAND FOR GOLD:”
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/milhouse831f.html


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:48
Earl U>() ID#227238:
Ted: Congrats! I gather that you're free to embark on the new building program. My slicks and timber framing chisels are sharp and in good order but, if the menu consists of leaves and twigs with the odd bulgar mush, you'll just have to start without me.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:47
MoReGoLd U>(@The Comex loony bin.....) ID#348129:
Arden: Comex eligible Gold stocks drop 25%, and the Gold price gets hammered? Go fugure! One cannot try to make sense of the current
Gold market or one will go insane.
It has been, and continues to defy all logic and sanity.
Now, wheres that prozac bottle.........

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:42
cherokee__A U>(@-----the-past--------and-cycles------) ID#344308:
da------

what did the fed do in the years preceding the great crash of '29?

INFLATED THE MONEY SUPPLY 40+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what is the fed doing now? why? HOW MUCH have they inflated the money
supply in the last 5 years? 2 years? this year?

expansion and contraction.....a cyclic event. may the circle, be
un-broken, bye and bye lord, bye and bye. as it should be, so shall
it be, regardless of bald-headed al and his minions.

gold calls are dirt cheap. go back 2 months and look at the price
of silver calls. the fire sale on gold calls will not last forever.
eurodollar puts are quite a buy also, imm. the mexican peso has
rebounded from its' last plunge.......it is time to buy more puts
on this sucker tam bien! the opportunities are boundless and very
cheap, if you know where to look. mexico down. canada down. stocks
down. grains down. metals up. oil up. immfat.

!;-------------dotssmfatimm-------------------



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:41
Bill Buckler U>(Asian plot thickens) ID#257234:
The Nikkei is now down 461 points today to 15700. That's LOWER than it was before the govt. announced their tax cut on Dec. 16. Couple that with the fact that all the heavies in the Chinese govt. are insisting that China will not devalue and you have the makings of another ratchet up in the seriousness of the Asian situation.

JTF ( 18:20 ) Re Japan's MOF announcement that they have bought 9.2 tons ( about 260,000 oz. ) of Gold since 11/96. That's a minuscule amount by any standards

Also, on Titmeier's announcment of the new European Central Bank holding Gold reserves of some magnitude. He didn't say that this Gold would be any kind of backing for the Euro, he simply said that the bank would hold reserves. The US holds Gold reserves too ( reported at 262 million oz. ) But there is no official tie between that Gold and the dollar.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:39
Speed U>(@223) ID#286199:
SSO and SSRIF were down today while silver rose, SWC was down big while platinum and palladium continued up. What's special about SSC?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:35
tolerant1 U>(get Camdessus) ID#31868:
( 15:21 GMT 06/29 ) CAMDESSUS: GOLD SALES DECISION AT IMF AUTUMN MEETING

-Repeating Story Originally Transmitted At 15:21 GMT Saturday LYON, France ( MktNews ) - The decision on whether or not to sell the International Monetary Fund's gold reserves to fund a special fund to help the poorest nations will likely be made at the IMF's next annual meeting this autumn, IMF managing director, Michel Camdessus said Saturday.

All bi-lateral contributors will be asked to make a major effort to fund the Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facility ( ESAF ) and once that's been done all resources and reserves will be used as needed, Camdessus told reporters at the Group of Seven meeting here.

Camdessus said that about 80% of the weighted voting power the IMF board support selling the gold, compared to the 85% majority needed to pass the plan. According to press reports, Germany is claiming it can muster the 15% of the vote needed to block the sale.

Japan, who has not taken a clear position, will go along with the majority and endorse the vague language in the communique, chief Japanese spokesman Hiroshi Hashimoto told Market News Service.

Japan will wait until the fall to see what the IMF actually proposes before coming out for or against gold sales, Hashimoto said.

The G-7 communique says the group will examine constructively and positively the options for the needed subsidies ( for the ESAF ) , using primarily resources held by the IMF, without excluding bilateral contributions.

The United Kingdom, United States, France and Canada all support IMF gold sales, while Germany strongly opposes the move.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:34
DEJ U>(Gold dropping in Asia.) ID#269191:
Down $1.45 and sinking.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:28
223 U>(SSC isn't following silver up) ID#263259:
Well, with its typical year end price suppression SSC is stuck in its trading range, closing at $1US today, according to my quote server.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:27
Dwayne__A U>(tax losses) ID#270230:

To my understanding Friday is the last day for tax losses on stocks in Canada for the year 1997.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:25
Ted U>(@ early returns) ID#364147:
Nikkei down 412 ( 2.55% ) and Feb. Gold down .40~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:20
tolerant1 U>(working the lemmings) ID#31868:
Thursday December 18, 6:53 pm Eastern Time

Camdessus sees risk of recession in Japan-magazine

WASHINGTON, Dec 18 ( Reuters ) - Recent economic and financial turmoil in Asia could trigger a recession in Japan and the country should speed up reforms of its financial sector, IMF Managing Director Michel Camdessus said in an interview released Thursday.

Camdessus told Businessweek magazine in an interview that will appear on newstands Dec. 29 that the International Monetary Fund had revised downward its forecast for 1998 world growth to 3.5 percent from four percent in the wake of the Asian crisis.

``Our forecast six months ago with four percent world growth in 1998; now, we are around 3.5 percent. That is still a very good number,'' Businessweek quoted Camdessus as saying.

``For Japan, the risk is recession. We suggest that it speed up the restructuring of its financial sector,'' he continued.

The magazine released excerpts of the interview with Camdessus late on Thursday.

IMF spokesman David Hawley said Camdessus' assessment of the Japanese economic outlook had not changed substantially after its announcement this week of a temporary tax cut.

Camdessus said the lesson to be learned from the crisis was `` ( to ) promote transparency; have the instruments to respond to emergencies, and complement the IMF's surveillance with regional surveillance. You have nothing of this kind in Asia.''

Regarding South Korea, Camdessus said the IMF's $57 billion rescue package was sufficient and foreign investors were already starting to return to the Korean market.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:19
Ted U>(BillD + Auric) ID#364147:
Re schedule: Am moving out 4/1 ( April fools day! ) and setting up my pup-tent and starting construction....Auric: Thankx!! hell-of-a X-MAS present ...eh!! almost makes me believe in Christmas ( grin thing ) ....

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:16
tolerant1 U>(Prime Minister Jeng, muttering on the way up to the podium ) ID#31868:
Get Camdesuss, get Camdesuss, get Camdesuss.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 19:12
TZADEAK* U>(@KOREA MAY YET DEFAULT!) ID#372344:
Kin Jeng has been elected as PM of Korea in elections there today,
and he was the one World Financial markets feared, since he was
the one that was ( or may in fact ) asking for renegotiations with IMF
as to amounts and terms. The Plot Thikens! He will be giving a speech
shortly.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:48
Y2KBug__A U>(Deutsche Morgan Grenfell geek robbery) ID#234311:
Being a regular poster/reader of the comp.software.year-2000 newsgroup, I found the following info to be of some interest, reminded by nomercy's post. It seems Deutsche Morgan Grenfell poached an entire team of crack Year-2000 project people from Morgan Stanley. Source were quoated as saying Morgan Stanley lost a whole tier of management, and 15 or more key people left without even thinking about it. Sorry I don;t have the corroborating URL, but when I find it, I will post it.

Being a Y2K programmer, and having just received a ( nother ) fat raise to keep me from jumping to a new company, I expect to see raids like this more and more often, as companies keep raising rates to acquire ( read: raid ) the best geeks from other companies. More money to sock into PM's.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:42
JTF U>(Voyeur Professor - bravo!) ID#57232:
I do recall LGB pounced on you for your long post -- I think it was your first! Now he is doing more of what he accused you of doing, and not as well. Given you erudite use of words, I think I would rather be chastised by you instead -- any day!

Months ago I suggested to LGB that humility was an admirable trait worth acquiring.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:41
Rob U>(RJ's comments) ID#410114:
when did rj make his last post?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:29
Mike Sheller U>(BEAMER) ID#347447:
BEAMER: Prechter was absolutely, positively, WRONG about the S&P ( we're all entitled ) , so what makes you think he could be right about $100 gold? This is a figment of a typical asset bottom. Gold has bottomed, or is now bottoming, and every wannabe is getting on the bandwagon...TOO LATE.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:23
JTF U>(Comex Gold) ID#57232:
Arden: Thanks -- didn't know it was that complicated.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:22
geoffs U>(To arden) ID#424187:

Tried to follow the logic of your last post. Please try to explain in further detail.Excellent Post I just wish I could understand it better .

Thankyou

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:20
JTF U>(Japan buys 9.2 tonnes of non-monetary gold since 11/96) ID#57232:
Nomercy, all: So the Japanese ministry of finance announces this fact today! Why?

1 ) To show that Japan is not penniless?

2 ) To begin talking down the dollar?

Well, Japan must not be in that much financial trouble if it can buy gold. In retrospect, I think the real reason Japan is now eager let the dollar drop is not because of Japanese money owed by the SE Asia countries, but because much of Japan's manufacturing is now outside Japan, so there is much less need for a weak Yen. Also, bringing the dollar down takes the pressure off the SE Asian countries, and allows capital to move back in to the depressed areas. Japan gets an added benefit by strengthening their currency relative to the depressed areas, giving Japan an added edge in becoming the financier for SEAsia. Even better it just happens to be what AG wants anyway!

Well, the fundamental reasons for a gold rally seem to accumulate daily, don't they? All we need to do is to move a little closer to the action!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:18
vronsky U>(prechter) ID#427357:
tricky ( Elliotwave Theorist ) : If you will email me via GOLD-EAGLE, I will give you info about what you seek.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:14
cherokee__A U>(@-----the-edge-of-the-6th-dimension-----------------) ID#344308:

looks like some of the guru-dudes are beginning to
'lock in' their profits so they can show how smart
they were/are this year. ( riding the s&p! )
next year will be another story. they ( stock bulls )
will lose ALL their gains and more. what
will the stock-dude-gurus be called then?
quite a lot i imagine.

the under-current of selling is going to intensify
as we draw to years end. 13 days or less.

let the story read as follows-----------

the greatest equities run of all time has come
to an end. it broke all records and created more
wealth ( on paper ) in a shorter period of time
than any sane person could have ever dreamed of.
it was the result of loose monetary policies
that drove valuations to un-realistic, and
un-sustainable proportions. the de-coupling ( beginning of the end )
of gold from curriencies on a global scale
has brought the world to its' knees.
there is nothing to stop what is coming
next. a direct kick to the knees resulting
in a supine position fatimm..........

cherokee!;'-----pulling-the-door-open------fatsomt!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:13
arden U>(countdown to margin call!!!) ID#201238:

JTF - I wish it were that simple. There are several 'groups' of shorts on Comex. The only one you can really follow is the guy who has physically deposited the metal with a comex depository and then written a contract against it - the 'eligible' group. Their numbers are published each day within the overall comex numbers. The other class of gold at comex is called 'registered' which is like a car parked in a garage, it is just sitting there without obligation. Comex totals reflect both of these numbers combined, so I think it is confusing, particularly on a day like today. Overall, 18,363 oz of gold physically left the comex, but a net 39,096 oz of 'eligible' oz covered their shorts. That I think is very significant.

Now during the last month it looked like we could have had a short squeeze on comex gold, but just before FND, about 200,000 oz showed up in the form of registered gold. My guess is that gold was leased by some large spec short position and deposited in Comex to demonstrate an ability to deliver. Furthermore, the amount of Delivery Notices issued for December - that is a notice by a short that they were going to deliver was over 600,000 oz. What this did was to put pressure on the longs who were in position to take delivery - either put up or shut up. In effect, this maneuver allowed almost all of the positions to be rolled over. Some longs had to cover and some of the intended delivery obviously didn't take place because now we are at the same overall position of gold in comex. The 200,000 oz in the registered category has gone away, BUT the real physical shorts who have been there all the time have been continuously covering and today rapidly ran for cover on a day when gold was down. I think this allows us to look at the physical psycology of the market as opposed to the speculative phycology. Countdown? I don't know, but it is going to be VERY interesting. First we have the end of the year stuff, then we have Feb FND in late Jan. Between now and then..........................

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:10
tricky U>(Elliotwave Theorist) ID#304282:
Do any of you believe in or use the elliottwave theory. If so I would really appreciate your veiw on where gold is heading using the wave theory. As you probably know Bob Pretcher is calling for gold in the mid-100's. What's your take?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:09
Beamer U>(Gold and Silver Certificates) ID#26144:
Does anyone have experience buying and selling gold and silver certificates ? My bank offers them. Apparently they aren't convertible to gold, which makes me uneasy...... any comments on the pros and cons
of these ( ie liquidity etc. ) would be greatly appreciated.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:04
panda U>(Wall Street Journal of late....) ID#30116:
To anyone who has been reading the WSJ, have you caught the editorial by Wayne Angell on gold falling too far? If anyone has brought this up already then please disregard. BTW, wasn't this guy saying that the dollar was better than gold last year and that gold was a 'relic'? Now he seems to worry that it ( the dollar ) is TOO good. :- ) )

Point two; Yesterday in the WSJ, Hashimoto was quoted as saying that the tax cut was to prevent a depression from starting in Japan and spreading to the rest of the world. Today we were treated the same thing on page C20, again. Spin, spin, spin cycle anyone?

Currency is not tied to commodities, so that as much 'money' as is needed can be printed without constraint. No depression, just the threat so that the present course can be justified later...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:01
Year2000 U>(Tricky: Microsoft Stock) ID#228100:
I agree with your assessment of Microsoft stock 100%... Microsoft is in a great strategic position, but the stock is certainly oversold. If a correction comes, it will be one of the first to take a major hit. ( Sorry if I implied that someone should go out and buy a few shares! )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:01
nomercy U>(Change of guard in S. Korea(Dow didn't like it, more turmoil ahead!)) ID#390214:
Financial market economists said the victory of Kim Dae-jung in the South

Korean presidential election was taken by traders as a sign that Asia's

financial troubles may deepen.

Kim is the first opposition leader to win the office and is closely tied to

organized labor, which has protested what it views as harsh terms to an

International Monetary Fund bailout of South Korea's economy.

Stocks took a dive when the results came in, said Edward Yardeni, chief

economist at Deutsche Morgan Grenfell in New York.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 18:01
BillD U>(@DBC shows March Silver at 610+) ID#258427:
Stand by for a blast-off in silver tonight!!

http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/dbcfiles/indicators.html?source=DBCC

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:59
tricky U>(Nikkei futures closed down 630...S.Korea) ID#304282:
It will be interesting to see how S Korea reacts tonight. I would think the market would tank because of the ex-communist elected pres. At first this guy said that he would reject IMF funding but then he did a 180 and said he would accept the current situation. I think he just said this because both of he other candidates did. This sounds to me a lot like a Clinton campaign promise!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:57
Steve - Perth U>(Steve Blizard’s specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA ) ID#284177:
BREAKING STORIES:

Mid Level Officials lobbying for Chinese Devaluation!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971219/world/wwashington.html

The biggest financial meltdown we have seen in our lifetime
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971219/news/news1.html

IN REVIEW

Change in sentiment puts shine into gold
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971218/business/business5.html

World enters the slow lane
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971218/world/world1.html

US rejects IMF call for funding increase
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971218/world/world2.html

In $US terms, base metals are in crisis
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971218/market/markets4.html

The penny starts to drop in the US
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971216/feature/feature1.html

Anxious IMF seeks more cash
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971217/world/world1.html

Pentagon to give all troops anthrax vaccine
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971217/world/world3.html

Won nation: a currency float to the rescue
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971217/world/world1.html

Bargain-hunters take chance on miners
http://www.brw.com.au/brw08.htm

NZ voters are wary of M.A.I. free-trade treaty
http://www.brw.com.au/brw15.htm

Red alert for Korea's banks - Korea is in DEEP TROUBLE NOW!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/world/world1.html

Too many eggs in an Asian basket case
No more Letters of Credit for Korean Manufacturers!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/market/markets5.html

ASIA'S NEXT CASUALTY? Bad banks could clobber China
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/50/b3557097.htm

Whistling past the graveyard in Asia
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/50/b3557052.htm

Billion-dollar buyouts lead attack on bankruptcy
Korean Shipbuilding Group had 20 times debt to equity!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971209/world/world1.html


BOOKMARK Steve’s News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/blizard.htm

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:57
JTF U>(A Run on paper?) ID#57232:
D.A.: Great comments on electronic money -- 60 billion dollars created -- and without a run on paper! I wonder how much money the US government just saved by this economizing move!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:55
nomercy U>(Japan buying gold (from S.Kaplan's site)) ID#390214:
Japan's Ministry of Finance announced Thursday that the country's November custom-cleared imports of

non-monetary gold totaled 9.2 tonnes, up 29.0% from November 1996.

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/4915/index.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:54
JTF U>(Comex Gold stocks) ID#57232:
Arden: Could you give us a rough idea on the countdown? What I mean is that if one plots Comex gold stocks vs time, one may be able to find an intercept date -- the expected time that Comex runs out of gold! I admit that it would be approximate, and depends on whether there is a secret supply of gold or not that would show up like the Lone Ranger ( gold equivalent ) -- but this would still allow us to guess the earliest time for a gold meltdown ( up ) .

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:54
Realistic U>(@ Spud Master) ID#410194:
Sir,

Arden is mentioning the eligible stocks which is a figure included within the totals that I sent out.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:53
panda U>(Avalon) ID#30116:
Regarding the HUI index. It is an index composed of mining companies the have sold forward less than eighteen months in to the future.

The AMEX Gold BUGS ( Basket of Unhedged Gold Stocks ) Index represents a portfolio of major gold mining companies. The Index is designed to give investors significant exposure to near term movements in gold prices — by including companies that do not hedge their gold production beyond 1½ years.

If you have Adobe Acrobat, you can view this .pdf file.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:49
newtron U>(JAMES< WELCOME &MEGA CONGRATS ON YEN TRADE_ HOW ABOUT YEN 150 ! HOW HIGH CAN A TREE GROW?) ID#335184:
What's a YEN worth anyway ? About as much as a CHICKEN/WEIGH, about two or three pounds!
I have no doubt that between the BOJ & Fed they can trade, swap, print, jaw-bone, ETC., ETC., ETC., whatever amount of yen/$s they need to set any price they can agree on,... if they are not engaged in a game of chicken warfare. After all they do control the supply. The $64 K ? is, what's the stuff worth vs. real money at any given time .
Will Japan print Yen to sell for $s to drive the $ back? Will this engender confidence in it's currency & economy so the world & speculators like you will join their rally & do their work for them ? Or will They waste their reserves fighting the tide, A LA Mexico & Korea? IMHO HECK NO!!! Much easier to casually mention that they casually forgot to buy T-Bonds for the foreseeable future!!!
The sad fact remains, until Japan calls in their markers, they can pour all the gasoline on the fire they want to. Vis a vie the U.S. economy the world thinks at this moment it's wiser tohod $ $ U.S. denominated securities. Will Japan disabuse us of this dream ?
AGH, once again, the proverbial $64 K ?


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:49
Spud Master U>(Please rectify the COMEX figures Arden & Realistic) ID#273112:
Arden: you state that COMEX gold stocks fell 39,096 oz to 134,246 oz.

Realistic: you state that COMEX gold stocks fell 18,363 ounces to 543,742 .

Can't both be right. What gives? ( or as G. Gordon Liffy would admonish: what obtains? grin )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:47
vronsky U>(While teetering on a bear market...) ID#427357:
tricky ( RCA vs Microsoft ) : Right-on! Very Sound reasoning.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:38
D.A. U>(thank.god.for.electrons) ID#7568:
All:

It's a good thing we have invented electronic money. If the Fed actually had to print up all the stuff we would be having massive deforestation problems.

Latest results for M3 are in. Drum roll .. . . . .. . .

+$13,000,000,000.

During this 'deflationary spiral' of the last 4 weeks more than $60,000,000,000 have been created from the ether. For the moment the assets which are being bid higher are bonds. Real estate ain't doing to bad either. Oh, and silver.

How long the powers that be can keep the deflation story running is anybody's guess. We will be treated to bizarre asset pricing where some things are cheap and somethings go ballistic. If you can find an asset that gets a following the outcome could be glorious. I'm hoping that the public doesn't get a whiff of silver for another couple of bucks. Maybe in about 2 or 3 months when we get the first bad inflation 'surprise' there will be a rush to tangibles. If silver is at 7 or 8 bucks we could see a mad dash for $20.

The hardest thing to do in a bull market is nothing.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:32
arden U>(comex run for cover) ID#201238:

Eligible gold stocks on comex FELL a whopping 25 per cent today!! They declined 39,096 oz to 134,246 oz indicating that these people believe gold is going up. By my calculations there is now a whole 3/4 oz of gold pledged against each outstanding 100 oz contract! One of these days folks, one of these days........

FND = first notice day

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:24
steady U>(Money Supply Data-Release 12/18/97 - 16:30 EST) ID#285233:
Latest M3 data realeased today, after the market close :

-M3 rose to $ 5,331,800,000,000; ( Dec 8th week ) ;an increase of 13.3 billion
-this is $2.6 billion above 10 week average
-M3 is now increasing at 10.5%, based on 10 week base


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:22
hipshot U>(Newtron & Professor) ID#401349:
Newtron, good comments. I think the current global financial context is too complex for anyone to fully understand -- even the almighty CBs. It reminds me of an unstable or perhaps out of control process from a statistical process control ( SPC ) perspective. There is extreme variation going on. Some of it is the result of common cause, some from special cause. But noone understands it so there is a lot of tampering going on in an attempt to get the process back in control. Tampering to resolve variation nearly always results in unpredictable and wider swings in variation. Based on intuition and perhaps some logic, I believe the Fed will ease in 98. This is tampering. It is also consistent with an inflation scenario first ( in the U.S. )

Professor, enjoy reading your comments. Your bring decency to what is occasionally a mere vulgar brawl.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:19
oris U>(@Charles Keeling) ID#238422:
You're right.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:19
Realistic U>(Silver) ID#410194:
Here is the latest Comex inventory data released after today's trading:

Gold: Fell 18,363 ounces to 543,742

Silver: Dropped 961,336 ounces to 117,775,779 A new 13 year low.

Also, March Silver closed above the needed 605 level in today's day session, the gates are now wide open.

Today's big drop again in Silver's Comex inventory is making this week's withdrawals quite huge from an already depleted stock level. Something strange is brewing...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:18
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .253

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:17
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 27.30

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:16
tricky U>(Carl-question on recession) ID#304282:
Carl I think one of the better case senerios of this Asian Crisis is JUST haveing a recession. The possibility is there for much worse.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:13
tricky U>(RCA vs Microsoft) ID#304282:
Maybe RCA and Microsoft's businesses are different in some fundamental areas, but that does not change the fact that only a fool would put money in soft at these levels. Microsoft, last time I checked, was trading at over 20 TIMES BOOK!! This is clearly a bubble and a perfect example of THE GREATER FOOL THEORY. If my math is right with MSFT trading at 3 times book ( still pretty expensive ) the price per share would be about 20 dollars. That's a decline of about 85%! With almost no upside, because of litigation and very little profit growth with nothing coming out until Windows 98, and a downside of at least 85%-anyone interested in capital preservation cannot seriously recomend this stock.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:11
Big Time Tom U>(Using satire in a public forum) ID#212320:
LGB & YEAR2000: When I once wrote a satiracal letter to the editor as a kid, my mother gave me some sage advice. Never use satire in a public forum, she said, because someone will always take it seriously. No matter how obvious the satire, someone will fail to see it and will therefore assume that you are defending the very position that you have tried to ridicule. It still strikes me as very good advice.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:11
TechTrader__A U>(Cyclist) ID#372180:
Thanks...It's nice to know someone else has similar signals by a different approach. If you use cycles as your handle would suggest, you have an added benefit of timing. My system is based on price closes and trends so I lag by one or two days as the trend develops. Good luck.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:11
A.Goose U>(Now if they had made it go up, would they have gotten in trouble?) ID#20137:
Thursday December 18, 4:24 pm Eastern Time

JP Morgan fined for breaking London Exchange rules

LONDON, Dec 18 ( Reuters ) - U.S. investment bank J.P. Morgan & Co has been fined 350,000 pounds for breaching London Stock Exchange
rules against trades designed solely to manipulate stock index levels, the Exchange said on Thursday.

In a statement, the Exchange said J.P. Morgan had acknowledged breaking its rule 2.10 against index manipulation and had agreed to the fine.

The move comes after a shock late decline in the blue-chip FTSE 100 index on November 28. The index tumbled 38 points in the final minute of
trade, because of two relatively small trades in Glaxo Wellcome Plc ( quote from Yahoo! UK & Ireland: GLXO.L ) and SmithKline Beecham Plc
( quote from Yahoo! UK & Ireland: SB.L ) .

Two J.P. Morgan traders were subsequently suspended over the trades, though the Exchange statement gave no further details on any action
against the two.

J.P. Morgan had no immediate comment.

The Exchange said it recognised the ``prompt and thorough reaction'' of J.P. Morgan and said it had received the full co-operation and assistance
of the investment bank in the subsequent investigation.

Earlier the Exchange had detailed its plans to prevent wild share price swings that could throw the equity market into disarray in the thin trading
conditions expected on New Year's Eve.

In a statement, the Exchange set out a special formula that will be used to calculate closing share prices and the FTSE 100 index on the last
trading day of the year -- an extra sensitive time because of the year-end valuation of investment portfolios.

The Exchange has already said it will bring forward the market's closure, already advanced to 1230 GMT on December 31, by a further 20
minutes to coincide with the closing of the futures market.

Under the Exchange's new formula, a closing share price will be ignored if it has moved by an ``exceptional'' amount compared with three specific
price points in the last hour's trading.

The Exchange said an exceptional move would be defined by reference to a volatility measure for each individual stock in the final hour of trading
in recent weeks.

An exceptionally volatile move in any stock will result in its closing price being disregarded when the FTSE is calculated that day. The Exchange
said the final index of 1997 would be issued by 1300 GMT at the latest.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:07
Carl U>(Yield curve flatter and flatter.) ID#333131:
28 basis points from 2 years to thirty years. Any recession preditions out there?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 17:07
James U>(Newtron comments on Yen 140) ID#252150:
You are right about the Japenese economy being in terrible shape. However if the Yen even approaches 135 there will be much more howling & screaming from the auto mfrs. No doubt you noticed the massive intervention on Tues that pushed it up around 5 yen. If we see 140 yen we will be approaching the economic appocalyse that many here have been hoping for. Quotas & trade wars & the imminent collapse of international trade won't be far off.

BTW, although I've been a long time lurker, this is my first post. Iwas particularly interested on your take on the Yen, because I just covered my short the day before the CB inervention. One of my very few successfull trades this year.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:56
newtron U>(TZADEAK @ 13:31 BULLS EYE !!! THAT'S KEEPING YOUR EYE ON THE BALL ! IT'S THE MONEY STUPID!) ID#335184:
MCcluin said, The medium is the message !!! Thanks for bringing this home .
That is why I am fixated on the currency/ liquidity trap in Asia.
Your grateful & Obediant Servant, Tar Baby

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:56
BillD U>(@Voyeur Professor....) ID#258427:
Dern...I wish I ( could..of ) said that!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:55
Cyclist U>(sell signals) ID#339274:
techtrader, FWIW the S&P gave two days a sell,
The dow gave one yesterday,with the XAU giving a buy
simultanuously.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:55
Prometheus U>(Banks selling gold) ID#189273:
With the Swiss and the EU standing behind gold as necessary backing of currency, all this chatter ( and I do believe it was empty rattling we've been hearing ) about the demonitization of gold is showing up to be empty words. Anyone know WHO started this rumour campaign? It just sort of exploded all over at once from where I was looking and listening. It just didn't ring true.

Now if any bank is selling gold at these awful levels, it must be needing the bucks badly. Who is selling low?

Still buying low and loving it ....

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:54
Charles Keeling U>(@Karlito SELL HIGH...BUY LOW) ID#344225:
Karlito: Your post of 14:30 is ample proof
that it is time NOW to sell Stocks and
preserve your profits by buying gold.

I know that it has been a pretty long run
of bad luck for us gold bugs. While the
CB'S hate gold, they love stocks and bonds.
So much in fact that they have been
manipulating the stock market in order to
show an upward bias while at the same time
manipulating the gold market to hold
prices down.

Remember the mini-crash in October? The
Fed was in the market buying futures in
order to stop the blood letting. Now,
here lately, they have been in the
market to keep gold from breaking out.

So rest easy, the Fed is with you, and
very much against those who would hope
to profit from gold on the long side.

2/3rds of the of the world is now in
financial chaos, and the Asian/Russian
flu is contagious with no known vacine.

The down trend in Gold has made Mr.
Angel a happy guy. He gloats and
points and says see, no sign of
inflation while DEFLATION is
breathing down his neck.

But not to worry! Bill Clinton
himself is working on the problem
as we post. Our national debt is now
over 5 trillion and rising. If the
Wall Street economy tanks, it will
skyrocket. So, the government will
do whatever it takes including
PRINTING BIG SUMS OF PAPER CURRENCY
to keep things liquid, and keep the
bubble intact for at least ONE
MORE YEAR. Then, it hits the fan
big time. Clinton and the Dems know
that they are not going to be in in
2000, and what a mess it will leave
for the Republicans to clean up.

So sell now Karlito, while the bubble
is still intact.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:52
Auric U>(Getting ready for R&R) ID#255151:

Ted--Congratulations on a very nice Christmas present.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:51
Voyeur Professor U>(etcetera,etcetera) ID#231101:

Obviously, LGB continues to relish his hyperbolic and repititious mantra. As a result of his 14:30 post, in which he indulges himself in gleefully taunting Puetz, I am going to indulge myself in a re-post of my comments last night.

As an amateur gold investor, it is greatly satisfying to surf the many perceptive observations made hourly on Kitco. And since the strong xau and bullion close of the day, I am anxious to hear from those of you with far greater knowledge of the gold market than I can claim. But, though my post represents a departure from the immediate business of deciphering today’s fortuitous spike, I want to say I have not enjoyed the ego wars fueled by those who wish to exalt themselves. Thus I have found it rather amusing that LGB allows himself such high moral ground when he spies a weak syllogism or non-sequitur glaringly corrupting the logic of posters he wishes to attack. However, when he misspells Nietzsche and launches into a disquisition on positivistic philosophy and existentialism, I should remind him that over a month ago he complained that kitcoites did not need an academic, nor my longwinded post ( my first, incidentally ) . Now, I have no desire to infect this site with the sort of ad hominum debate so dear to LGB, but over the weekend, as he waxed fulsomely about astrology, false prophets, and anti-christs, I believe he stepped a bit into my expertise. I would rest my case with a simple exhortation that we not blame experts for encouraging visitors to this site to expect financial Armageddon as LGB has written of Puetz and George Cole. If these gentlemen have offered advice that might influence a Kitco investor, it seems equally perverse to spout bargain basement philosophy ( Voltaire calls it metaphysico-theologico-cosminogology--a wonderful reproach to the long-winded Pangloss ) , pretending where evidence will not support the claim to knowledge. My belated salvo for LGB's reproach to me has its origins in my hope that everyone will stick to his expertise and his manners in the future. I am interested in learning about gold and its future, not intellectual overreaching. I read Sophocles to learn about hubris.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:41
JTF U>(Euro + Gold - a paradigm shift?) ID#57232:
Kiwi: So -- the Euro is going to be backed by a limited amount of gold. I guess that is the way you gracefully introduce the concept that gold might be important for backing a currency. Limited -- does that mean that Germany and France have too much? Will they be asked to sell some or most of their gold? As I recall DeGaulle gave the US a royal headache some time before 1980 when the French insisted on backing the French Frank with gold. And the Germans had runaway inflation in the 20's. What are the odds that they will both willingly sell their gold for the EURO? I doubt they would even allow the gold to be moved to a central location.

Perhaps the powers that be have decided that the EURO launching is well enough on its way that a strong dollar ( and cheap gold ) are no longer necessary.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:40
BillD U>(@TED) ID#258427:
Congrat's....Swan Island here your come....schedule

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:36
Ted U>(WE SOLD THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ID#364147:
Da judge caved in at 1-6-3.......Swan's Island here we come~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:35
Earl U>() ID#227238:
Newtron: You be on a roll today. Go for it!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:34
A.Goose U>(More power to Allen's Wishes) ID#20137:
Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:31
Allen ( USA ) ( Gold and Silver ) ID#246224:

Allen if your first set of wishes come true, everyone on this bb WILL have a GREAT Christmas.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:31
Allen(USA) U>(Gold and Silver) ID#246224:
Nice little uptick in silver in last part of the day. Nice slope. Let's see is London closes above $6.00 tomorrow.

Gold did not do badly today. A nice surge. A retracement, then finished on an uptick. Its lows today were above yesterday's highs. That's nice.

Here's hoping that the S&P tanks tomorrow. Also would like gold back up to 3-2-5 by Christmas and silver headed for $7.00.

And if I still have a few wished left I wish all here a great holiday season. Enjoy family. Be generous.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:17
tolerant1 U>(EB) ID#31868:
C'mon down. I mean it. Get out of that short gold tree. This mad dog silver won't bite.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:16
Ted U>(Haggling with da judge) ID#364147:
Will it be 160,000 or 1-6-3~~~~~~~~~~~~~go team gold!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:15
vertigo U>(Arden) ID#42371:
Comex gold stats please.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:14
TechTrader__A U>(Short the S&P) ID#372180:
I never like to give advice, but I'll just let you know what I see. As of the close today, my indicators are saying sell short the S&P. For those interested in trading the DJIA future, I have not had the same downward confirmation as yet, but a close tomorrow lower than today would change that.

I also am watching gold for a possible long or short position, but do not have confirmation either way as of today.

Are there any other tech chartists out there with similar signals, or lack there of?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:08
newtron U>(JTF & XAU5 -DEFLATION IS INEVITIBLE/DEVALUATION WILL NOT SOLVE JAPAN, INC.'S CANUNDRUM) ID#335184:
Politicians ALWAYS/ALWAYS think of currency problems as a magic bullet or as a way to cheat either their competitors or their customers or their citizens or all three.... whoever or whatever needs conning for the moment. Insolvecy is the soul of deflation. The problem is, NO AMOUNT of devaluation can cure the steadily depressing, low down mind messing, bankruptcy blues!!! It will take a true DARIDIGM SHIFT to get the world to see that the real problem friends is that mighty JAPAN, INC., is broke, or as a displaced British Lord I once knew would say, My embarrassment results from a temporarry interruption in cash flow for the foreseeable future.
Infation is alreay baked into the cake, A LA, M3 growth ( 9.15% ) & US stock market overvaluation of at least 60% of fair value. Deflation will follow inflation as inhale must follow exhale. The basic imbalance is between, ours to Japan & Asain Tigers' to Japan.The $64 K ? is how can they/ US resolve these severe imbalances without the process of liquidation and it's attendant painful consequences ? Loaning more $$$ whether by BOJ or FED or N.Y. OR SANTAS ELVES will only exacerbate & prolong the agony. All, including the USA must face the music, pay the piper and the truth of the cuts of a thousand different banal platitudes. It's a mell of a hess, but I don't see any alternative, except Orwellian Double-Speak: let's call it a well deserved restful happy adjustment to a prosperous new paradigm !!!
{or A.W.D.R.H.A.T.A.P.N.P )
HAPPY HUNTING! CHOW.
YOUR OBEDIANT SERVANT TAR BABY

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 16:03
A.Goose U>(How about that SILVER.) ID#20137:
Blasted throgh 6.00 now at 6.07.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:40
cherokee__A U>(@-----romulus-and-remus----------------) ID#344308:

---13 days ( or less ) and counting.....


the paper-tiger, with millions insider her.....

where's the fiddler?
fiddle baby, fiddle!

cherokee!;---harvester-of-the-buyers-of-corn----------




Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:35
kiwi U>(EURO GOLD BACKING) ID#194311:
New Euro-bank will hold gold: Tietmeyer


FRANKFURT, Dec 18 ( AFP ) - Europe's new central bank will have a
limited amount of gold in its reserves, but the exact amount has
yet to be decided, Bundesbank chief Hans Tietmeyer said on
Thursday.
There is a consensus between national central-bank governors on
the fact that there will be a limited amount of gold in the reserves
of the European Central Bank, Tietmeyer told a press conference.
However, it is not yet decided how large the monetary reserves
will be. The exact composition ( of the reserves ) remains open as
well, he said.
Questions about gold's role in the European central bank have
been raised by large sales of gold by national central banks around
the world, who consider the precious metal a poor investment at this
time.
Gold on Thursday closed in Hong Kong at a mid-rate of 287.25 US
dollars an ounce.
Bank of France governor Jean-Claude Trichet indicated last week
as well that gold would be part of the central bank's reserves that
would underpin the single European currency that debuts in 1999.
Under the Maastricht Treaty on enhancing European union, the
European Central Bank is to have reserves of at least 50 billion
euros, the value of which has yet to be set against other
currencies.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:23
BillD U>(@AVELON...HUI) ID#258427:
Try:
http://quote.yahoo.com/quotes?symbols=^XAU+ASA+ABX+BMG+ECO+HL+HM+NEM+PGU+PDG+GLD+TVX+^hui+aem+asa+bmg+cde+eco+fcx+glg+hl+hm+kgc+nem+wmc&detailed=f&options=t

Gives you a list of all gold stocks in the HUI....

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:20
tolerant1 U>(east vs west) ID#31868:
East wins with gold, the barbaric relic. Not even a fair fight. EB chased up a short gold tree by silver.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:13
Year2000 U>(LGB: Bull vs. Bear Markets) ID#228100:
How can you call Karlito an “ignorant fool”? I agree with his statement that we have been in a “bear market” for gold since the 1980’s. ( Didn’t your mother ever teach you how to make friends.... )

Last week, following revelations that he lied about his military service, the body of former diplomat and Democratic contributor Larry Lawrence was removed from Arlington National Cemetery. Commenting on this situation, an angry President Clinton called it: 'The most outrageous deception regarding military service since ... me!'


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:13
General U>(ALL MAJOR INDICES ARE RED AS OF 1500) ID#365216:
I JUST CHECKED THE LIST OF MAJOR MARKET INDICES AND ALL ARE IN
THE RED ( NEGATIVE ) .. I DON'T THINK I HAVE EVER SEEN THIS BEFORE.
I SAID IT BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN;;;;BUY GOLD, GUNS, AND
GRAIN ( IN ITS VARIOUS FORMS ) AND BE READY WHEN ALL MARKETS PLUNGE.
EVEN IF THEY DON'T, YOU WILL HAVE ASSETS THAT WILL ALWAYS HAVE
AN INHERENT STORE OF VALUE.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 15:10
Good ol' boy U>(A topic for the forum: Comments please) ID#26362:
When I was in Hong Kong, I purchased several gold necklaces. The necklaces contained 22 or 24 karats of gold. The jeweler weighed the necklaces, calculated the gold content, and charged me based on the current world price of gold plus a small sum for the fabrication.

We have all seen spools of chains spun in various manners which you can buy by the yard. Apparently, it is easy and cheap to do. Fabricating d chains of gold should be equally cheap and easy. If you buy a gold chain in the U.S., you are probably going to be buying 12 to 14 karats of gold for which you will be paying about twice the price of the metal content. It is not a good deal if you are buying it as a store of value together with its value as an adornment.

I realize the jeweler likes his markup. Apparently the U.S. buyer is unaware that such mark ups do not exist in the Far East. It seems to me that the gold mining indusrty, if it can agree on anything, should recognize that demand for the commodity would be greatly enhanced if it could establish a demand for gold jewelry as a method of storeing wealth as well as for its adornment values.

It also might be a good idea for someone to do this and sell it direct. In any case, there should be a campaign to educate people regarding the value of their investment in gold jewlery. If people started buying 22 and 24 karet gold jewlery, it would greatly increse the demand while enhancing the portfolio of the buyer. I do not find 22 and 24 karet gold offered in the U.S. ( I am sure the same applies to other countries ) nor do I see gold jewlery priced reasonably by Far East standards.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:58
General U>(to LGB regarding platinum AEs) ID#365216:
Sir,

Could you please state which dealer you bought your platinum
American Eagles from? I have priced two dealers so far with
MONEX being about 8 percent over spot and FJ VOLLMER being
about 4 percent with all charges included.

Please comment. Sincerely, General

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:55
vronsky U>(Rationalizations & Rationalizations Regarding MICROSOFT) ID#426220:

Alas, MICROSOFT IS DOWN ANOTHER FIVE BUCKS! Why fly Kamakaze, simply buy MSFT at these levels...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:48
Charles Keeling U>(Dollar must drop to 113-115) ID#344225:
If the Japanese market is to have any
kind of chance to stabilize without
continued major bank closings, the
Yen must strengthen to the 113-115
range quickly. Hashimoto has said
in the past that he may well be put
into a position of selling US
Treasuries and buying gold. I am
sure he will only do this, in any
quantity, out of sheer desperation.

However some reports that I have read
indicate that some sales and purchases
have already been made.

Clinton has said that Japan can lead
the Asian tigers out of the problem
simply by them running a trade deficit
with their Asian trading partners just
as the US has done with Japan for many
years. I think that they would much
sooner crash & burn.

Reports that I have read indicate that
Clinton and Greenspan had a mmeting
with the Central Bank of Germany.

Imagine that! Clinton will know the
strategy to save S. E. Asia. This
should set Hilliary up to make the
cattle futures scheme of running a
thousand up to $100,000 look like
childs play.

The very well orchestrated CB selling
had to be politically motivated, ie;
prevent money moving to safety from
going to gold as safe haven. Remove
gold as safe haven and US Treasuries
will avoid the hit that Japanese
selling would cause.

I wonder what gold would be at today
if CB selling had been dormant these
past 3-4 months?

Of course, the Euro had it's impact
on CB selling. CB'S involved in the
pending move to the Euro would sooner
sell now at any price rather than see
their GOLD taken over by the Euro CB.
I hope ( and think ) that the window
for these Euro related CB sales is
limited to year end 1997. I expect
a big upward movement as soon as the
Euro CB makes known what it's gold
holdings will be.



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:45
Bill El Zebub U>(Laser printer cables with GOLD couplings) ID#261352:
Salesman said 'gold is a better conductor'.Go gold.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:34
Dwayne__A U>(Support @ $286) ID#270230:

Gold Close $287.50 -1.75
Silver Close $ 6.08 + .10

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:30
xau5 U>(Newtron) ID#201131:
I am not sure the ultimate resoloution to this mess is Deflation.It seems that what is happening in Southeast asia may be the end of deflationary policies and the rethinking of the mess they have caused. Japan remember topped out in 1990 and Korea has been going down for awhile. I believe we both agree the dollar gets hit which makes the yen appear strong only in comparison to the rest of those currencies but not to say gold. As for the Southeast asian countries having to repay their debts to Japan in a stronger yen it seems to be the least of two bad choices. What do you want a strong yen or a strong dollar? It would apppear the strong dollar is causing more problems right now than a strong yen. Keep posting. bye

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:30
LGB U>(@ Karlito...the coming crash) ID#269409:
Hmmm so you don't believe the elemnts of another great depression are in place today? Havn't you read the appalling statistics in the Wall St. Journal? Unemployment, interest rates, inflation at historic lows? Corporate profits way up? Deficit falling to levels totally unpredicted by the FED due to booming economy? Consumer confidence and purchasing power very high? Dollar incredibly strong? FED policy that's working to keep a balance of liquidity, yet without inflation rearing it's ugly head? Free trade and global economy without the protectionist nonsense of 1929? You don't call this mix a certain recipe for depression? What's wrong with you?

Havn't you read the coming crash of 1984..er I mean 1987...uh I mean 1990...that is I mean umm 1992, uh 1994..I mean 1998, umm uhhh you know the book ( s ) I mean don't you dammit! What an ignorant fool you are Karlito, you should listen to Puetz more. ( Where is Puetz anyway? too busy to post here now I guess. Too busy making money for his investors with those Dec. S&P PUT options he's been recommending...which look to be a 100% loss from the level they cost during every single post he ever made...but then..he's got credentials and gets quoted so we have to respect his vast storehouse of brilliant market knowledge eh? )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:28
JTF U>(Silver heading up, gold down) ID#57232:
All: Looks like the gold bulls are having a hard time of it, unless the dollar is actually dropping. As soon as the attention is off gold fades as if it is not yet self sustaining. And -- silver still shows a life of its own.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:18
Dwayne__A U>(Support @ $286) ID#270230:

This upsurge in the price of GOLD seem to have started with the Sinking US$ in Asia, GOLD seems to have found some short term support @ 286.00. Also see SILVER above 6.00
I was really expecting a rally in Gold in North America today and it doesn't seem to want to happen, DOES IT !!!

GOLD $ -$2.00
SILVER $ +$ .06

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:18
tolerant1 U>(Iraq and Korea problems waiting to get uglier) ID#31868:
The metal which is most sensitive to political problems is gold. Couple the stupidity of the CBs, huge demand worldwide and the now public knowledge of the position of the shorts and I say a twitch in any of a number of areas will shoot gold to the moon.



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:17
LGB U>(@ Lunar cycles effect on us.......) ID#269409:
How lunar cycles affect us http://www.csicop.org/si/9705/moonshine.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:14
JTF U>(Japanese Liquidity crisis?) ID#57232:
Newtron,Allen ( USA ) ,Vronsky: Newtron: I also like your post about Japan, Inc. If you are correct regarding why the Japanese are selling dollars, this is a matter of great import. Are the Japanese more desirous that their SE Asian debtors pay back their loans in more expensive Japanese yen, than they are worried about their trade with the US? That also makes future investment in SEAsia cheaper for the Japanese.

I have always wondered when the Japanese would tire of supporting the US dollar because most of their trade was with the US, and that they had to support losses in dollar investments in order to keep the dollar strong.

One can interpret the Japanese sale of dollars in two ways: 1 ) The Japanese investment in SEAsian countries is much more than we realize; or 2 ) The Japanese have made a major sea change, and have decided that much more of their trade will be in SEAsia. Interpretation #1 is an ominous sign for the future of Japan -- much hidden SEAsian debt. Interpretation #2 means that the Japanese have less reason to support the US dollar because of a shift in trade emphasis. They no longer have the need for a cheap Yen if all of their manufacturing is outside Japan. Then the Japanese can enhance their role as the investment bankers of SE Asia.

Regardless of the truth, it is inevitable that the Japanese would eventually tire of the expense of supporting the US dollar.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:12
LGB U>(@ Karlito) ID#269409:
You're obviously confused about Bull markets vs. Bear markets. What we actually have is a long protracted Bear market in the DOW, which is completely unable to make new highs since August and is up a measly 1600 points or so this year. The DOW has been in a Bear market since 1980 or so, when it was below 1000. It's in a quintuple topping pattern and destined to crash at any moment to 10% of it's former value.

Gold on the other hand, has been in a nice long bull market cause you can still buy a cheap men's suit at K mart, with a One ounce Gold piece. ( if the clerk doesn't have you arrested by security that is ) Course it takes 4 to 8 times as much Gold as it did in 1980 to buy a decent new car, Home, gallon of gas, basket of groceries, insurance policy, etc etc etc., but none o' them things is nearly as important as that suit!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:11
xau5 U>(Tzadeak) ID#201131:
You are right about the dollar and gold. When the dollar falls gold goes up and when the dollar rallies gold goes down. IT is obvious the market senses trouble here and if the dollar is allowed to fall gold will go up in all currencies not just in US Dollars.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:11
DEJ U>(Don't give-up so easily.) ID#269191:
After the bear run we've had in gold, it's going to take time to build
a base and change the negative psychology. So today's action is not
all that bad.

As for the U.S. $ something more than just a one day reaction to a
change in Japanese tax policy is happening. The trade numbers overall weren't
as bad as I expected, but the deficit with Japan went up sharply and
set a new record.

The Fed and BOJ are giving speculators a free ride to short the $.
It was significant that the Fed cooperated with the BOJ to intervene
against the dollar. This means the Fed doesn't want the $ to go higher.
With the dollar capped and the fundamentals heading south, shorting
the dollar is a low-risk propositon.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:06
LGB U>(Conspiracies....Illuminati....etc. ) ID#269409:
Try this link of you want origins of Illuminati, conspiracy theories we see here from Vronsky's site, recovered memmories, and o host of other fascinating, conspiracy mentality related subjects.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9609/conspiracy.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 14:02
LGB U>(@ RJ, Platinum) ID#269409:
OK RJ, ya talked me into it! Just bought a pile o' Platinum AE's. It seems to have stabilized and will make ready for huge moves up in 98, IMHO.

Interestingly ( for a numismatist ) the dealers are out of the 1/2 Oz. and 1/4 Oz. sizes, and production at the mint has ceased, meaning the low mintages on the smaller size Platinum's for 1997, may add a small Numismatic premium value to them above the, normal premiums. We'll see.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:57
newtron U>(ALLEN USA -NEGATIVELY CHARGED MOST DENSE MATTER IN THE UNIVERSE WILL DO!) ID#335184:
ORWELLIAN DOUBLE-SPEAK QUOTIONT ( O.D.Q. ) meter is ringing when US M3 is growing at 9.15% & AG hand puppet ( or is the puppet on the other hand? ) , Wayne Angell, telling us that US disinflation is going to give US a soft landing. It's really more like a game of musical chairs without the chairs or a DIRTY HARRY movie with Clint eastwood playing hero & villian. GO AHEAD PUNK, MAKE MY DAY... WELL DO YA FEEL LUCKY PUNK? HUH,THEN PULL YOUR US SECURITIES & WE'LL SEE WHO EMERGES FROM DEPRESSION FIRST!!!! Yea if mad cows could fly the EURO could too! Then we'd really have some manure to spread around ! EURO not backed by AU ? What's it going to be backed with, a 35 hour per week frog ? or an unemployed krautt?
Stay tuned!!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:50
tolerant1 U>(US employment) ID#31868:
In reading various items today it was sad to see the amount of people that appear to be getting layed off in December. The past several months have seen many different corporations giving exact numbers of people that will be let go.

Furthermore in my reading I see that January is supposed to be the month when companies in the US let the majority of people go.

This does not bode well for an economic picture that is getting more gloomy by the day.

Hey EB, pick on silver all you want. It is laughing at you. It also has a message for you, you ain't seen nothin yet.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:43
Realistic U>(Silver) ID#410194:
Interesting battle between March Silver and the 600 level today.

It hesitates a lot but each time Silver fails to penetrate solidly, it doesn't want to move down either!

Given the unusually low inventory situation, the odds are that another solid leg up is close at hands but it needs to close above 605 soon in any day sessions or in London!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:43
Karlito99__A U>(That hissing sound I hear.....) ID#78116:
could it be the air coming out of the great bull market of 1997 in gold. I always thought bull markets lasted for longer than a day or two.

Could it be that we are still in a bear market for gold?

A bear market that goes back to the early 1980s.

A bear market that is not going to be broken by a one day drop in the value of the US dollar that was brought about by a ridiculously small one year cut in Japanese taxes.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:39
Avalon U>(Question of the afternoon ?) ID#254269:

This would have been the question of the morning, but I couln't get in
here to post. Could some of you more experienced pros, plase explain what is the HUI ? Tia ( Thanks in advance in case I cannot get back in ) .

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:38
Karlito99__A U>(Microsoft vs RCA; 1929 vs 1997) ID#78116:
There are several other differences that make this a ridiculous comparison.

First, RCA was an industrial based company operating with diminishing marginal returns. Microsoft in an information based company operating with increasing returns to scale.

RCA faced intense competition in their core product categories. Competition that drove down prices. Their products were largely commodities that could be easily copied by others. With marginal costs rising, the reduction in price only hurt gross margin dollars, and hence profitability.

Microsoft also faces minimal competition in its core product category, operating systems. The more the price of information technology can be driven down, the broader the use of the technology. With falling marginal costs, falling prices for Microsoft can actually be a good thing as it increases the quantity demanded, and hence can increase gross margin dollars.

Secondly 1997 is no 1929. We do not sit at the precipe of another great depression. Depressions are caused by bad policy. Bad monetary, fiscal, and trade policies. We just don't have the policy mix today or the policy makers to make the conditions that would producer a depression.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:31
TZADEAK* U>(@ US$ and Gold) ID#372344:
It sure has been interesting indeed to watch the movements of US$
and Gold and the mirror image of US$ and Currencies i.e. Yen, Mark etc..
A short term trader could certainly make a handsome sum hourly,daily,etc.. using this formula.At this moment Gold is down almost
3$US and the US$ is up against said currencies proportionally.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:26
vronsky U>(CALLING newtron... CALLING newtron...) ID#427357:
newtron: Am very impressed with your proposed solution for JAPAN, INC. Please contact me at GOLD-EAGLE. We will guarantee your continued anonymity: vronsky@netrox.net

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:13
Year2000 U>(RCA vs. Microsoft) ID#228100:
Those are interesting analogies between RCA and Microsoft. If we have a 1929-style crash, just about all of the stocks will go down 95%. A few key differences in these companies, however:

1. RCA relied upon patents, which expire, while Microsoft relies upon copyrights, which do not. With a relatively small change in technology, a new patent can be issued on a new product. Copyright infringements are easier to spot.

2. RCA had a lot of competition in the 1920’s. Everyone was working to develop better electronics technology. Regardless of what you see in the media, there isn’t a lot of emphasis placed on development of new technology. Nowadays, companies are only working to improve marketing and manufacturing processes. All of the technology in your desktop PC is at least 25 years old.

3. Bill Gates started Microsoft with a simple “vision” of developing products for PC’s, and has simply stuck to that vision. Other companies are simply not interested in competition. ( Or they make money for a few years, and then become complacent: Novell’s NetWare vs. Microsoft’s Windows NT, Lotus vs. Microsoft’s Excel... )

For example, a few years ago, IBM decided to compete with Microsoft for a PC operating system. Would they spend $10M to develop a better system? NO! They dusted-off an old system, dubbed it OS/2, and thought: “Well.. let’s see if people are stupid enough to buy this.”

Most large companies are still paying the big hardware manufacturers ( IBM, Data General, Unisys, etc. ) $750k and more for mainframe/midrange systems that are comparable to a $5,000 server. These companies had better wake up and smell the coffee. Soon the costs aren’t going to be in the hardware. The profits are going to be in the software required for these systems, and that’s Microsoft’s home turf.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 13:06
Ray U>() ID#411149:
Arden- send me an e-mail, the address I had came back.

Kitco sure has the arthritis bug today!

Well the gold god giveth and TAKETH AWAY, DOWN $3.00+

DAMN

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:55
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:54
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:53
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:44
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:42
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:41
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:40
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:40
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:37
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:37
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:37
PrivateInvestor U>(Dear Santa) ID#225283:

I know it has been a long time since you have heard from me but here goes:

One request only ...please slow the gold stocks rally down a bit because I have not yet had a chance to accumulate my fair share at rock bottom prices.

Thank You

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:31
PrivateInvestor U>() ID#225283:


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:29
TZADEAK* U>(@ I for one, will no longer read thru poststhataretypedthisway!) ID#372344:


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:28
PrivateInvestor U>() ID#225283:


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:26
Allen(USA) U>(Neutron@You're just a sticky little sub-atomic particle ..) ID#246224:
with a $yen$ for the dark ( matter ) side.

Agree with your basic view. Japan Inc has been bailing water for seven years now. This with the concurrence of the other world powers. A.G. called 1990 a contained depression recently. The basis of the system was never touched and so the problems remain, aided and abetted by the 'solutions' ( which are more of the problem in different packaging ) . After Japan Inc tried to hitch a ride on the backs of the Tigers, they also have fallen to the same problem. Will this continue? Now that the US and Germany ( as spokesman for Europe ) have said NO to the IMF, etc I believe we are in the end game. To wit, Where will the pieces be when the game is called?

The ROD ( rate of duplicity ) , a much neglected indicator of systemic rot, is going to historicly high levels. The SW/HAV ratio ( of substantial worth to hot-air valuations ) is also at record levels. As a sidelight we are told that gold is a poor investment, yet is used as a comparison to establish worth ( the US$ is as good as gold and 'a gold colored coin' for the US pocket ) , and so the increased rate of growth in the level of the SWWAUTDAPR ( speaking words which are used to denigh and pervert reality ) only corroborates the ROD and SW/HAV indicators.

In summary we are S.O.L. without G.O.L.D.

Get physical. Get gold & silver.

Remember Gold is as good as the US$ ( and other innane reversed slogans which show the inherant contradiction of the statement so quoted, etc ) .

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:04
newtron U>(XAU5-Currecy Manipulation is Blade that cuts up and down!) ID#335184:
Thanks for your post of 09:19. I was beginning to feel like a TAR BABY.
JAPAN, INC., seeks stablization vis a vie US $ because much of the debt in the region is denominated in US $. But, J. Inc., is also a major creditor to Asian Tigers and does not want to be repaid in devalued Yen. A creditor will always seek to maintain the value of the medium of exchange, while debtors benefit from it's deterioration. Remember how Japan screamed when it got killed on it's Us Treasury portfolio when US $ was weakening ? Likewise a break in US $ will give major relief to Japan, Inc.'s debtor's, the Asian Tigers ( who are Major BIG- TIME in debt to Japan ) with regard to their hugh US money center /HONG Kong debts denominated in US $. In effect Japan's biggest problem facing their corrupt & bankrupt financial system is the illiquidity, read , A LA bankruptcy of their debtor's & Japan seeks ( desperatly needs! ) a competitive DEVALUATION vis a vie US $.
Such DEVALUATION makes J.I.'s exports tougher & US portfolio worth less, but this is small price to pay for tsunami relief from Asian Tger shores.
I repeat, J.I.'s problem is insolvency & bad debt & unrecognized losses leading to malaise to depression. Yen will remain weak i.e. no one will want to hold Yen until they get their banks under control.
One sure way to staunch US $ is to pull US Treasuries home or simply to stop buying new offerings! This of course would tank US stocks & bonds. OH well misery loves misery.
IMHO the eventual colapse of the Japan stock market will be the trigger for a world stock market colapse leading to deflation/depression. When the illusion of wealth evaporates instantly suddenly those nagging issues of debt repayment on a world wide scale will look & be impossible to repay. Financial assets then will be exceedingly cheap & AU though less valuable in US $s, even more precious than it has ever been. JAPAN'S financial melt down & it's stoic denial of the obvious remedies is the key stone to all currency & market issues now.
Tar Baby over & out.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 12:03
vronsky U>(CLASSIC DOWNSIDE BREAK-AWAY GAPS - Microsoft - Down $4 Today) ID#426220:

RCA ( 1925-1929 ) and MICROSOFT ( 1993-1997 )

This is text-book perfect! Go to the following chart of Microsoft. See how the price plummeted down through its 50 day Moving Average WITH TWO GAP MOVES. This is an ominous sign if LONG. And today it is already down $4, taking out the recent low.

Neither Ever Paid A Cash Dividend...

Deja Vu All Over Again?! From 1929 to 1932 RCA lost 97% of its market value. Recall RCA was the #1 High-Flying Tech stock of the 1920s. There is an eerie and uncanny historical resemblance here...
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/rca_msft.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:42
cherokee U>(@----downtown-houston------the-space-city-----we-fly-the-ship-of-the-mind!!--) ID#287358:
13 days and counting----

looks like the grains 'forgot' they were supposed to rally
on technical over-sold conditions. those 'cheap' corn puts
are beginning to shine, for imm, corn is going down.

don't be fooled by the 'appearance' of a return to normalcy
in the currency markets. the folly of de-coupling ( from gold )
has yet to be righted, as it most surely will. instead of
the imf and the fed allowing 'water to seek its'own level,'
they have created a vacuum which is ab-horred in nature.

what happens when ---

'for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'

all hell is going to break loose, and the genie will never be
put back in the bottle, as chaos and flux take over and severely
whip the living sh!t out of the entire fiat monetary system!

there is ONLY ONE WAY TO SURVIVE------BUY PM'S!!!!!!! the physicals!

cherokee!; ) -----the-'new-taskmasters-are here!'----say-hello-to-mr-chaos--



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:41
Crystal Ball U>(@Éßdustingthewinkshelf) ID#287367:
Éß, ol' buddy, I have been convinced of the wisdom of your method. As I had predicted to 223 the other day that I expected ABX to go to 19, and we hit it today, I sold my 17½ calls for a useful profit, and bought some ABX Jan 20 puts, looking for a retracement down to perhaps 17. As you noted earlier, Argentum is acting kind of sickly. Maybe it wants to fill the rather large gap it left between 550 and 578. All the best!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:37
Frustrated U>(Year 2000) ID#298259:
Only you can decide your risk/reward tolerance. Mutual funds will not show the appreciation that some of the gold juniors and exploration companies will, but neither will they be posting banckruptcy notices. Try a little of both.

As for Fidelity Select American Gold ( min investment $2500 ) I have looked at their numbers for the last 7 years. Their high was in May '96 at $31.52 and their low was in April '92 at $11.94. The price is currently around $14.50. Their perfomance was as follows:

1991 - down 6.1%
1992 - down 3.1%
1993 - up 78.7%
1994 - down 15.4%
1995 - up 11.2%
1996 - up 19.9%
1997 to date -42.2%

Fidelity Select Precious Metals has a heavy exposure to South African gold companies and therefore has a much higher risk attached.

Put 1/3 to 1/4 of your money in now and average up or down as you watch the game unfold.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:37
Allen(USA) U>(EB @ ub de man wit de list) ID#246224:
Bro - we *DO NOT* shoot 'em any more. No. Instead we sent the list to mail&Telemarketters. Then they are flooded with offers for 'Anita Bryant's Greatest OJ commercial hits', ads for 'genuine' zircons with 'gold like' settings, panty hose catalogs, shampo samplers, Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes, TV Guide, Oldies Tape of the Month clubs, car covers, Fuller Brush cataolgs, Catalog of Catalogs catalog, 'free' trips to Florida and beyond, Mop and Glo, etc.

We *HAVE* come a long way, Baby! Gotta kill 'em wit kindnesses.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:26
newtron U>(XAU5-Currecy Manipulation is Blade that cuts up and down!) ID#335184:
Thanks for your post of 09:19. I was beginning to feel like a TAR BABY.
JAPAN, INC., seeks stablization vis a vie US $ because much of the debt in the region is denominated in US $. But, J. Inc., is also a major creditor to Asian Tigers and does not want to be repaid in devalued Yen. A creditor will always seek to maintain the value of the medium of exchange, while debtors benefit from it's deterioration. Remember how Japan screamed when it got killed on it's Us Treasury portfolio when US $ was weakening ? Likewise a break in US $ will give major relief to Japan, Inc.'s debtor's, the Asian Tigers ( who are Major BIG- TIME in debt to Japan ) with regard to their hugh US money center /HONG Kong debts denominated in US $. In effect Japan's biggest problem facing their corrupt & bankrupt financial system is the illiquidity, read , A LA bankruptcy of their debtor's & Japan seeks ( desperatly needs! ) a competitive DEVALUATION vis a vie US $.
Such DEVALUATION makes J.I.'s exports tougher & US portfolio worth less, but this is small price to pay for tsunami relief from Asian Tger shores.
I repeat, J.I.'s problem is insolvency & bad debt & unrecognized losses leading to malaise to depression. Yen will remain weak i.e. no one will want to hold Yen until they get their banks under control.
One sure way to staunch US $ is to pull US Treasuries home or simply to stop buying new offerings! This of course would tank US stocks & bonds. OH well misery loves misery.
IMHO the eventual colapse of the Japan stock market will be the trigger for a world stock market colapse leading to deflation/depression. When the illusion of wealth evaporates instantly suddenly those nagging issues of debt repayment on a world wide scale will look & be impossible to repay. Financial assets then will be exceedingly cheap & AU though less valuable in US $s, even more precious than it has ever been. JAPAN'S financial melt down & it's stoic denial of the obvious remedies is the key stone to all currency & market issues now.
Tar Baby over & out.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:26
geoffs U>(Gold @ 392.oo) ID#424187:
What screen are you guys reading?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:26
geoffs U>(Gold @ 392.oo) ID#424187:
What screen are you guys reading?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:26
geoffs U>(Gold @ 392.oo) ID#424187:
What screen are you guys reading?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:23
JTF U>(The people and the truth? Can we mold the future? Perhaps) ID#57232:
Mike Sheller: Your 8:34. I have no illusions, or I would not be posting on this site -- you may be right about the future. Are the people to be herded like sheep, to embrace some aspect of the emergency powers act and are my retirement accounts and what little gold I have to be confiscated? Is there going to be an antiChrist that the masses adore because he/she solves all our problems? Another Hitler? Russia is the most likely place for this to happen. What minority group will be singled out as the cause of the collapse of our economic system? All of the above may come true.

But -- we all are responsible to make sure that the above does not come true. If we loose our optimism, and fail to hope for the better, then we will end up getting what we fear the most. I believe that the human race is capable in principle ( ie, free will ) of making the future come out for the best. If we suffer because we have failed, all I can hope for is that we a chance to start over -- even after armeggadon.

Can you really think of a better way to face the turmoil that we may each be facing in the years to come?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:23
vronsky U>(THE 'ROSETTA STONE' FOR WORLD MONETARY REFORM) ID#427357:

MONETARY GOLD MISMANAGEMENT IN THE 20th CENTURY by Joseph M. Miller

We are indeed fortunate to have received an insightful and scholarly treatise, whose content and format could well be a doctoral thesis on the financially pertinent subject of the Monetary Mismanagement of the “illustrious” group called Central Bankers. This observer has NO DOUBT the detailed and in-depth analysis will be of utmost keen interest to GOLDBUGS, students of money, politicians, and yes, even Central Bankers!

It documents where we have been, where we are, and most importantly where we will be monetarily at the millennium. It is indeed encyclopedic in its coverage of the subject. Like the historically important ‘Rosetta Stone’ - which was the key to deciphering the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt - this oracle view promises to be the translation ‘blueprint’ for the forth-coming world monetary reform.

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller121497.html



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:18
Ray U>() ID#411149:
D.A.- thanks for the name of the stocks that you are buyin, I was lookin for that. Can't tell yet what I am buyin yet because I ain't through.

All the timing prople I follow have been early and I have looked more at the astrology method for price projections for short term moves if you can do such a thing. Their chart predicted this up move and it will last several more days then correct back to just above where we started then level off until mid January then start a very gradual move up then a stronger up move gets under way mid Feb. It appears that your bets should be placed by mid Feb., I intend to hold 1/3 in reserve for the unexpected. Other wise hope to enjoy the ride UP!

Tally Ho

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:18
A.Goose U>(Best News I have heard all YEAR. Look forward to it Vronsky.) ID#20137:
Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:05
vronsky ( It's Going To Be a RED CHRISTMAS... for the GOLD SHORTS ) ID#427357:
GOLD Up $1.50 to $392.60, soon the GOLD SHORTS will panic.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:16
HighRise U>(KITCO ON THE BLINK AGAIN TODAY?) ID#401237:
Never seems to work when Gold +?
There does not seem to be that much volume on Kitco the last two days - so why the access problems some post are 10 mins apart yesterday?
Gold @ 392+ triple witch is coming up?
Could get interesting.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:13
EB U>(......stuff........) ID#22956:
Tol 1 - so do I.....but I must use humor.....and so must foghorn...eh?

D.A. - Museum = Mausoleum in EBspeak ....you forgot a few letters...ohmy

btw......food for thought....if you spend an hour on the phone with me you can be smooth-talked into buying a big bridge......I is a goood salesman and I imagine he is too...just a little food for thought.

away...to watch gold teeter

Éßdustingthewinkshelf


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:11
Year2000 U>(Mutual Funds vs. Stocks) ID#228100:
Fidelity’s gold fund was mentioned in a previous post. Are there any INFORMED opinions of investing in mutual funds versus stocks? It seems that for a smaller investor ( less than $1M ) , investment in a mutual fund would spread the risks. Also, it seems difficult to compete against a staff of people that spend all of their time researching details of individual stocks. Vanguard has a fund that purports to spend only about 1% on operating costs.

Thanks!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 11:05
vronsky U>(It's Going To Be a RED CHRISTMAS... for the GOLD SHORTS) ID#427357:
GOLD Up $1.50 to $392.60, soon the GOLD SHORTS will panic.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:54
D.A. U>(bets.in.place) ID#7568:
All:

I mentioned a few weeks back that we were begining to look at some small cap Canadian gold companies for our funds. I am happy to report that we have built up a nice little speculative position. For anyone interested we have purchased a stake in Mongolia Gold ( V.MGR ) , a small producer/explorer that has operations in Mongolia of course. They are currently selling at about 40% below the price of the fixed assets of their mine. This seems like a low number. My knowledge of this operation is limited to what I could learn from an hour or so phone call with the president of the company. I basically came away with the feeling that he could be trusted. As with other microcap companies the big question is whether or not they will survive. These guys seem to have a plan in place which will at keep them going at current gold prices for at least 18 months. The neat thing about this play is that the company has leverage to higher gold prices in the form of production revenue but their main deal is exploration. At current prices, their exploration properties are assigned a value of 0. This seems like a low price. The other company we took a stake in is my old friend ( ? ) Aurizon mines ( T.ARZ ) They are a small but growing producer looking at doing about 55,000 ounces in 1998 at an average cost of around 260. At 290 gold this yields around 1.7MM in cash flow. Curreny price of company is around 14MM. 8x cash flow at these gold prices seems ok. They have a couple of other deals going beside their producing mines that will kick in if prices go higher. They will probably survive.

As an aside, and sometimes for laughs, I read the SI gold pages. Never have I seen so much despair. If you want to buy when the blood is in the streets and people are jumping off buildings then now is your time. Usually the people who post on those pages are wildly optimistic about the prospects of their juniors. There's not a lot of joy at the moment.

Back to building my wink museum.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:53
Bill El Zebub U>(Barts E-Mail) ID#261352:
Thank you Mr. Bear

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:46
tolerant1 U>(EB) ID#31868:
To the degree that any sweeping generalizations are filled with many truths, I mostly agree with what was said. To borrow a line from a certain cartoon you know well, the leaders in the US talk so much their tongues get sunburns.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:41
POLARBEAR U>(bart's email) ID#183109:
bkitner@kitco.com

I sent him a couple a while back and got no reply, so this might not be good anymore, but it used to work.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:35
Bill El Zebub U>(Barts' E-Mail address) ID#261352:
Has anyone seen his E-mail address laying around ?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:28
EB U>(Here is the other one.....they tried to hide it........) ID#22956:
Ya' can't trust those sneaky, filthy, antirodents.....er...uh.....antipodpeople....oh forget it.....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:04

Nick@C ( Auraciouswisdom ) ID#393224:

Auracious--your 04:20 the best post of the day. When I visit Yankeeland, I cannot

believe what I see on TV and read in the papers. Talk about an oversized ostrich with

it's head in the sand. THEY say the Japanese are the most zenophobic race on earth.

THEY haven't been to Main Street, USA. Now these comments do not apply to our

Kitco mates as they are the salt of the earth and well informed. The average

Yank,however, wouldn't be able to find his ass in the dark without a search light. If

CNBC can be taken as a typical example of information flow from the land of the

free--they are in big trouble. Despised Yes. Do they care ( or even know ) No.

Do we love 'em Yes. But dang if it isn't painful for a koala to make love to an

elephant!!

away...to search for a sizeable Koala

Éßmakinlovenotwar

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:25
vronsky U>(The correct Order of (financial) Life...) ID#426220:
Paper reverting LOWER to its lack of intrinic worth, and All Things Precious ascending to its HIGHER real value:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/intra-day.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:15
tolerant1 U>(EB) ID#31868:
Could not read the second comment. But, I must take exception to the comments of the first. I would like to point out the glaring and wholly mistaken specific. Our 15 year olds are only confused because there are two Washingtons on the map.



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:15
vronsky U>(ASIA BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDSPOT ) ID#426220:

The ORACLE of the Orient long absent from our website has returned with a vengeance in his scathing rebuttal of Central Bank spewing that “gold is dead,” that “gold is no longer a hedge against economic and currency chaos,” etc. etc. His succinct and extremely well-documented opinion concludes that Central Bank braying is “RUBBISH, RUBBISH AND MORE RUBBISH.”

The ORACLE proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the only defense southeast Asians had... AND WILL HAVE - against the on-going currency chaos, stock market turmoil and the region’s crumbling bank system is to invest in GOLD. The staunchest and most fanatical anti-GOLDBUGS are obliged to concede to the irrefutable evidence that GOLD is the ONLY SAFE HARBOR vis-à-vis the looming and devastating Domino Effect engulfing the area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle121597.html



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:13
EB U>(.........aaaargghhh............whoof, whoof(pant, pant), WHOOF, WHOOF!!........) ID#22956:
D.A. - NO...

away... to chase some rabbits

Éßmaddogbarkingatthemarkets

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:08
Carl U>(Donald) ID#333131:
Dow/Gold hanging around in the 27's. Question: When will we know the top is in. I'm thinking below 20 which is about where the 1969 and 1970 lows were. What do you think?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:05
EB U>(I have a list of Yank Bashers ;-)) ID#22956:
Tolerant 1 - Here is the black list.....how do you want to proceed Should we line 'em up .......ohmy ;- ( And I thought they were our buddies..........boo hoo...

I think this guy is communist.....let's break out the rope.....

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1997q4/1997_12/971216.042002.auratoree.htm

And this dude opens too many cans of worms.......off with his head ;- )

http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1997q4/1997_12/971216.050432.nick@ceee.htm>http://www.kitcomm.com/comments/gold/1997q4/1997_12/971216.050432.nick@ceee.htm

away......to my torture chamber to extract info from the prisoners......IT knows too much

Éßshuckin'&Jivin'

go gold......going, going, ..... winkbemine.......

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 10:03
silver plate U>(How can they afford it?) ID#288433:
The magazine Scientific American Dec. 1997 has an astounding article
on the collossal infrastructure that is taking place in east asia.
The structures are magnificent but can they afford them ? Apparently not
from what we now know. Remember the Empire State building? Finishd in
1930 in time to enter the great depression, never did have decent occupancy for many years.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:55
D.A. U>(oh.no.not.again) ID#7568:
EB:

You mad dog, I told you to stay away from silver. If you must donate to my retirement fund I offer the following painless contribution err wager.
625 before 575 basis Kitco spot. Your choice on size.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:51
Aysha U>(Haggis) ID#250165:
How do u do....Im from planet earth living in Malaysia....My comments
were posted a few lines below yours...care to comment...Id like to chat
wz u.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:46
Haggis__A U>(JTF and farfel................) ID#398105:

G'day from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

It is a complicated, but yet simply life. One shot.
The Kitco forum is open and allows good free expression. However, the overiding flaw is, apart from a very strong N American presence, there is only a sprinkling of Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans and others... aye and a Scot. The opionions and interprations are open and constructive, BUT where are the Asians, Russians, Japanese, Thais...........
So, what is the go lads, whose arse is being saved, and why.
Aye, Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:41
midas__A U>(the majors....) ID#348397:
If I was a bettin' man, I'd be sticking my snount in the golden trough on the senior producers....Barrick, Newmont and even Placer. They have been hugely oversold in the past few weeks. But then again, I have been wrong before...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:40
Aysha U>(Mike Sheller) ID#250165:
Hi Mike....you gave me some advice on gold purchase a couple of weeks ago
and I took it. Thanks ..I have been buying bits n pieces esp when the
price was bottoming. Whats you opinion ..have we reached the bottom level for this cycle or will the price breach the US 280 level.
The traditional demand from the SE Asian countries has and will be low as long as the dollar is at its current level. Do you see some correction
here. Share some of your experience Mike. Ta.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:39
EB U>(on Silver) ID#22956:
Look out below.... ( can't penetrate 6 ) ..... ( profit taking? ) ...... ( where are all those buyers? ) .......... ( turn out the lights ) .....

away...to catch the 'knives'

Éß

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:25
vronsky U>(Fidelity Select American Gold Fund) ID#426220:

George S. Cole & All: George often mentioned to us his interest in Fidelity Select American Gold Fund ( FSAG ) , which is one of the largest gold funds in the world. I am pleased to mention it soared $0.99 per share yesterday to 14.43, representing a 7.3% GAIN for the day. As we all well-know, Fidelity is by far the largest mutual fund group in the world - managing upwards of $300 billion in more than 220 separate mutual funds. Let’s project the possible ramifications of a sustained gold bull market vis-à-vis a falling stock market for reasons we all know too well.

Slowly at first but building momentum, the millions of Fidelity investors in the 220 funds losing value in a protracted bear market in general stocks would be shifting their monies to one of Fidelity’s two gold funds. This would allow the gold fund managers to continually bid up gold mining shares being purchased for the gold funds’ portfolios. Concurrently, the same process would be going on at the other 40 mutual fund groups that manage their gold mutual funds. Eventually, increasing gold fund share values would attract new money from the public, further building demand for gold shares, thusly raising prices even more.

It happened this way in early 1993... deja vu all over again, as Yogi would say. HOWEVER, there is now one “slight” monumental difference... this time ‘round ASIAN MONEY would pour into gold shares... the resulting price impetus to gold shares could be electrifying.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:19
xau5 U>(Newtron nice post) ID#201131:
I agree that Japan is in hot water. I think the solution for them to get out of this mess is to take the dollar down which will raise the value of the countries Japan invested in.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:15
Haggis__A U>(Mike Sheller...............) ID#398105:

G'Day Mate from Kaloorlie in Western Australia,

F.. me dead mate, you are either a Demorcrat or a Republican, ever be overseas, apart from the Milatary............ BIG WORLD or there, or have you YANKS not noticed.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:11
geoffs U>(Future(dec contract)vs spot.) ID#424187:
Explain why the future is considered more accurate than the spot price

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 09:11
xau5 U>(gold now up) ID#201131:
Gold now up for the day. Can we put two days in a row to the upside together?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:51
nomercy U>(Tantalus Rex (Double Spacing Posts) ) ID#390214:
I copy and paste. The original source document ( newslink ) is double spaced.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:45
Tantalus Rex U>(Double Spacing Posts) ID#295111:
NOMERCY:

How do you manage to double space your posts? I prefer them single spaced, probably most of us here at Kitco do as well. Actually, double spacing wouldn't be as bad if you could extend each line. That is, instead of 50 characters per line you can have 200 characters per line. That would save time scrolling through the board and reading your posts.

I hope you take this as constructive criticism. Ciao.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:44
vronsky U>(Government Bonds, Money and South-East Asia: The Great Deception) ID#427357:
If we accept that government bonds and currencies are at best an illusion of wealth, and that stock markets trading at 5 times book value may be over-priced in view of falling profits and currency upheaval, then the only investment alternative is gold. Realizing this, governments have driven down the price of gold. In order for the world to continue to believe in the government promoted illusion, the price of gold must continue to fall. If the world were not on the edge of an economic collapse, the price of gold would not be so low. An analysis by John Kutyn:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/kutyn121797.html


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:42
tolerant1 U>(all) ID#31868:
What time was the post by aurator that spoke of Americans?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:37
vronsky U>(DEJA VU MARCH 1993... ?) ID#427357:
The XAU soared 6.27 points, raising 9.2% in a SINGLE DAY to 74.81. From the very opening the XAP gapped. This is considered by most analysts as a 'break-away gap. Both these factors are reminiscent of the initial action in the the great gold shares bull market of 1993, when many gold mutual funds appreciated more than 100%, and individual company shares zoomed hundreds of percent. No one can be certain of a repeat performance, however, these factors historically heralded a large move in price of shares of any industry.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:36
Tortfeasor U>(BillD) ID#36965:
I don't think I tried to access during that time period. I happens every now and again though.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:34
Mike Sheller U>(Da Peeple) ID#347447:
JTF: You are to be commended for your gentle soul that is always open to the most optimistic view of mankind. I fear, however, that your remonstrations with aurator concerning the people awakening and rooting out corruption in the aftermath of financial catclysm are exhuberantly optimistic, to say the least ( :- ) . It is my fear that the people, woefully uneducated about money, its orgins, its philosophy, and its current day counterfeiting, will accept whatever government and social voices wish them to belive. They will, if prodded in such a direction, burn goldbugs as willingly as they would have communists, or witches, or even, if one Kitcoite would have his way, perhaps even astrologers. When the paper society sees its paper, the only wealth it has known in recent times, wither on the vine, it will be very easy to goad the ignorant into a reaction against everyone and anyone but the real culprits. The people were savagely raped in 1934 by a gangster government when their gold was taken from them in one of the most pitiful and flagrant violations of justic and the Republic in American history. This was an affront to the glory of America that the educated populace should indeed be the keepers of their destiny, not arbitrary government.The law that allowed that is still on the books. It will be interesting to see how these emergency powers will be used next time around.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:30
Ted U>(@ BillD + Tort) ID#364147:
Tort: don't worry I will!!...BillD: Haven't been able to access kitco for the past two days with a few exceptions----axiom= if gold goes UP big,kitco goes DOWN big.....

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:17
BillD U>(Kitco die...) ID#258427:
Tort or Ted...Did Kitco die on you yesterday afternoon/evening

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 08:07
Tortfeasor U>(Morning Ted and all ) ID#36965:
Folks after all the carping I have done about my investment I actually sold my March silver $6.00 calls for a profit and turned around and invested the proceeds in December 1999 gold $330 strike price. The cost was $1400 USA. That would appear to be an investment that will make money. My feeling is that the move into the metals is beginning as it dawns on investors that money is just paper with fancy writing containing noble looking photographs of old distinguished men. Morning Ted. Give 'em hell today.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:59
APH U>(Feb Gold) ID#25588:
Look for a sideways to slightly up market today. An acceleration up beginning tomorrow or Monday.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:50
Stalder U>(up again today) ID#286410:
South Africa JSE All gold. +10.5 ( +1.42% )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:46
nomercy U>(Debt moratorium next nightmare on agenda ) ID#390214:
Act two of the great Asian debt tragedy is only just

starting to unfold. The breath-taking collapse of

regional currencies over the past two weeks almost

defies investors' ability to comprehend, with falls of

10 per cent day after day paralysing credit markets.

Thailand, which suffered two years of slow motion

decline before the summer crisis, is furthest down

the track. Over-geared property companies have

defaulted on debt repayments for more than a year.

Others, inevitably, will follow, but at least analysts

are used to the idea.

Recent events in Indonesia suggest a debt crisis of

even greater proportions. The sheer speed of the

collapse has effectively bankrupted the corporate

sector in a country where no proper bankruptcy

laws exist. Short-term rupiah paper is in default, as

payment deadlines are missed and banks simply

hope for a turnaround.

Responding to speculation that Indonesia might call

a general moratorium on debt repayment,

government officials yesterday ruled out the

possibility. Maybe, but if the rupiah keeps sliding

they may have no option. Until that time, outright

denials will inevitably be made. Any hint to the

contrary would see bank lending seize up entirely.

Plenty of large listed companies now have gearing

levels of 600-900 per cent. The rupiah has fallen so

fast that interest-coverage ratios are meaningless.

By rights, liquidators should be carting away office

furniture. Instead, firms know banks cannot afford

to foreclose.

Faced with years of potential court proceedings,

banks and promissory-note holders are simply

sitting tight. The crunch will come as re-financing is

refused and defaults begin on international bonds

with pledged assets.

Without a legal framework to recover debt, the

situation can only get worse. Japan provides the

perennial Asian case against protracting a debt

crisis. Plenty of international lenders are sitting in

Singapore, baffled as to their next move but aware

that waiting will not help.

The rupiah's recent falls were triggered by a

weakening resolve to take the International

Monetary Fund medicine. Waning commitment to

close insolvent banks and more sweet deals for

companies controlled by the ruling Suharto family

pointed to a political-bureaucratic elite still in denial.

Investors realise the limitations of IMF

macroeconomic adjustment policies. The cancer of

rampant corruption within the government, causing

poor decision making and mis-allocation of

investment, remains, Goldman Sachs argues.

Examples are everywhere. Indonesia is Asia's

largest oil exporter, providing a natural advantage in

down-stream processing of plastics and polymers.

With the rupiah's fall, manufacturers should be able

to buy these products cheaply and export

competitively.

Instead, franchises are held by firms of the ruling

family, charging monopoly prices and restrictive

tariffs. As a result, plastics are imported, destroying

the competitive advantage of exporters.

Increasingly, investors doubt whether the system

can be reformed without a change of leadership.

Yet the potential for a chaotic transition, given

weak political institutions, is more worrying still.

Against such a backdrop, bond holders are a low

priority. Large-scale defaults on derivative positions

are already reported. Soaring interest rates and

currency falls have pushed cross-currency swap

positions deeply into the red.

Indonesian firms sued aggressively after losing

substantial sums on derivatives in 1994. This time,

their case looks less compelling, with losses

resulting from generic swaps on unrealistic

underlying debt exposure.

A debt moratorium would wreak havoc in capital

markets. The proliferation of derivatives means

ramifications will be wide. That, no doubt, is the last

thing on the minds of Indonesian government

officials. Yet, for a country with huge capital-raising

needs, the chaos from turning the repayment tap off

would reach far into the future.

That said, any further falls in the rupiah could easily

impose force majeure. Once one goes, other

countries may easily follow.

http://www.scmp.com/news/template/templates.idc?artid=19971218023623061&top=mar&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsize=4215

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:44
Ted U>(@ BillD) ID#364147:
Usually only get about five hours.....

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:42
BillD U>(@Blah) ID#258427:
SnP futures this morning ... blah...
Dollar this morning .........blah
Gold this morning ...........blah...
Silver this morning .........Well, maybe!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:40
BillD U>(@Ted) ID#258427:
Not much beauty sleep, huh....saw your 1 am posts!!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:37
Ted U>(@ Cape Breton) ID#364147:
Good mornin all!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:34
nomercy U>(Cyclist) ID#390214:
Great calls on BGO and Xau. Thanks

I'm interested in contacting you. Please reply at Mhabs@yahoo.com


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:17
JTF U>(NineteeneightyFourator) ID#57232:
Aurator: I have read your posts with interest. I have no problems with what you have said, despite being an American. We collectively have many problems, and I hope we can resolve them, preferably without the currency collapses currently in vogue. Many people I know refer to corruption in some SEAsian countries, and say of course, that is why it happened there, and fail to see that we have similar problems. Our problem I think relates to the human condition -- namely that the average human being does not complain during good times, and complacently accepts their lot -- even when their freedoms are slowly but surely taken away. We cannot blame our government for trying, because that is the nature of government to do so.

As a people, we do have some things in our favor -- our freedom of speech -- and a fierceness when we are backed up against the wall. Just wait until the economy weakens significantly -- then the people will wake up and go after corruption, and the creeping tentacles of our government. We will have a third political party again.

I hope that something brings this out before we spend and indebtify ( apologies to the D. Webster critic ) ourselves into obscurity.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:04
aurator U>(POERATORSEEYALATERNEVERNEVERNEVER) ID#257148:
Quoth the raven

NEVERMORE

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 07:00
JTF U>(Gold cartel?) ID#57232:
farfel: You certainly have a way with words -- you have to accept our gold bug euphoria when we have the chance to have it -- gold has been going down for two years. I for one know that the gold bear market could still be with us, and am only up to my ankles. I think there is a sea change going on, so I could be wrong, and probably should be up to my waist or higher. I do know, however, that I will have many opportunities to ride the gold bug Tsunami, when all the gold stocks together only match the equity of Coca Cola. Pretty thin market, isn't it?

I am interested in your idea of all the producers forming a gold cartel. As a Wall Street Guru I would guess you would know how diverse a group as the mining industry is, and how difficult it would be to form a cartel. But then -- the times are hard on the precious metals miners, aren't they? I have one question -- don't we have a gold cartel already, as Haggis says? His logic seems irrefutable - the Rothschilds -- the ones that bring us the diamond cartel. The gold bear market -- which is clearly far from equilibrium -- speaks volumes doesn't it? Haggis may very well be right that not only do we have a gold cartel, but a very organized attack on gold to push it down. If you do not believe Haggis is correct about the gold cartel, what do you consider all those Central Banks with 10 years or more supply of gold? As far as I am concern, those elephants can sit anywhere they want, and squash gold bugs and precious metal producers whenever they want.

Pretty poor odds for a producer gold cartel isn't it? No wonder the bigger gold producers just follow the trend, and lock in as high a gold price as possible with derivatives. By the way -- I think the strongest argument that the gold bear is over, is that more and more gold loans are needed, just to maintain the current gold price. That is not a stable equilibrium. And, the gold price is at cost for many producers, who may default on their loans from the CB's. If there are massive gold loan defaults, the CB's will be in the embarrassing position of converting loans to sales. Those must go on the balance sheet, even if you can hide the derivatives trades.

Did you see Kiwi's post that one SE Asian country is throwing the gold traders in jail for taking gold out of the country? What is the world coming to? Are we beginning to forget that gold is worthless, and paper is the answer to all of our currency needs? Heresy!


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:55
panda U>(aurator) ID#30116:
At least SOMEONE is interested!

BBML, maybe, if the Internet gods allow..... :- ) )

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:55
Mike Sheller U>(Jo'Burg) ID#347447:
NICK at C: The Jo'burg chart is scary if you were buyin' a year and a half ago. Today it looks positively inviting. Gold in January '79 looked scary. The Nikkei in '89 looked scary. The Dow and S&P today look scary. Gold stuff? Scary? When your guts are churning is the time to buy. When you feel real smug is the time to sell. Over time I have found that when I was most wrapped up in patting myself on the back over some great stock play, was the time I should have sold out and gone fishing.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:49
aurator U>(nineteeneightyfouratour) ID#257148:
You can only read this morning's session in Short Text mode.

ANOTHER begining of the end

Public service announcement, yawwwwwnnnnnn

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:45
John Disney__A U>(I'm never gonna eat swiss cheese AGAIN.) ID#24140:
For private eye.

Yes still bullish on swiss franc but plan to wait until radioactive

cloud clears.

Two questions - why did it take 55 years for people to lay claim to

alledged amounts lost in swiss banks. One possible reason is that all

evidence to prove claims FALSE might have disappeared in meantime.

- does statute of limitations apply in cases like this.

If Not I think we should start talking about the CRUSADES.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:43
aurator U>(Kitco) ID#257148:
.......Eviscerated

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:34
Nick@C U>(Say goodnight Gracie) ID#393224:
Goodnight

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:31
Nick@C U>(Globex currency futures) ID#393224:
http://www.cme.com/market/prices/currencies.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:24
Nick@C U>(whiplash) ID#393224:
Put your whiplash collar on before you look at Bart's gold chart.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:21
JOE Smith U>(Haggis new drillholes at Munni munni) ID#25541:
I hear that new holes testing extensions at depth still in mineralisation
and native silver present to an extra 30meters----have you heard?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:20
Nick@C U>() ID#393224:
Now go back to the ten year chart and look at January 1993. A nice little up move and then a drop almost back to the lows--- and then nothing but blue sky above. If that happens again ( the drop back ) , how are you going to handle it? Remember, history never repeats itself exactly. There are, however, behaviour patterns on these charts that will prepare you for the possibilities.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^JGAI&d=my

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:11
Nick@C U>(longer yet) ID#393224:
Now look at the ten year Jo'burg gold chart. These opportunities only come along once or twice a decade. You gotta be in it to win it!!

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^JGAI&d=my

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:10
Carl U>(Jim Hoagland in Washington Post today-EURO boosted by SEAsia crisis, Alternative for Japan) ID#333131:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1997-12/18/056l-121897-idx.html

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:09
aurator U>(Experimental Hampster? me? hampstaurator....) ID#257148:
Back to Normal at 06:00, Perhaps, Bart, the experiment was successful. Cunning plan. where and when do I pay? will you accept steinie futures? Others have.

aurarunninroundatreadmill

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:06
Nick@C U>(longer view) ID#393224:
Now look at the five-year Jo'burg gold chart. Pretty scary stuff.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^JGAI&d=5y

Contrarian's paradise.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:01
Nick@C U>(Mr. ten per cent) ID#393224:
Anyone remember the Mr. ten percent theory. Wait until a market moves 10% in your direction before jumping in. The Jo'burg gold index has now risen 11.69% from it's low. Have a look at the chart.

http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=^jgai&d=1y

Still waiting on the sidelines?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 06:00
aurator U>(old five and dimers) ID#257148:
Gabby says goodnite. Hope you fix the leetle administrative difficulty, Bart

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:54
HighRise U>(suicide a day) ID#401460:


One South Korean businessmen commits
suicide a day, group says


Copyright © 1997 Nando.net
Copyright © 1997 The Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea ( December 17, 1997 2:24 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net ) --
In a Confucian society that equates failure with dishonor, at least one South
Korean businessman is committing suicide every day, an industry association
said Wednesday.

The Korean Federation of Small Business said the number of
business-related suicides will exceed 400 this year as bankruptcies increase
in a foundering economy.

The federation said 13,500 small businesses declared bankruptcy in the first
10 months of this year, compared with 11,000 for all of last year. It predicted a
record 15,000 bankruptcies by year's end.

The International Monetary Fund came to South Korea's aid earlier this month
with a $57 billion bailout, but the loan's stiff terms are expected to lead to
further bankruptcies next year, throwing 1 million or more people out of work.

In a 1992 report on business-related suicides, Korean police said about 300
businessmen, mostly small company owners, had committed suicide the
previous year. No police or other government figures have been issued since.

Yoo Young-hoon, a senior researcher at the small business federation,
predicted the suicide rate would rise once IMF-required austerity measures
are implemented.

The life of small business owners has always been harsh, but the IMF will
make their life miserable, he said.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:52
Beamer U>(Private Investor) ID#26144:
Any price range or trading venue in mind? Bema Gold and a few of its
offspring will certainly prove to be profitable this year if gold continues its climb. If you do not already know all about this group
please let me know and I will elaborate.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:50
JL U>() ID#252286:
PI: Here's a small sample of companies that I track and today's performance:

Juniors:
FDM - 55.5% VGZ - 25% ECM - 20% ELD 19% GSR 15.4%

BGO 15.2% PCR - 13% AZS 11.4% ATN - 10.3%

Seniors:
CDE - 10.4% NEM - 8.9% ABX - 8.8% SWC - 8.3% NGC 7.7%

As you can see, the juniors were steller performers as compared with their senior counterparts. I noticed this trend everytime we've had an attempted rally. If and when we do have a bonafide bull, I expect this trend to be duplicated yet again. The juniors are so much more undervalued as a class of stocks than the seniors. Of course, you have to be very selective about the companies you choose.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:37
PrivateInvestor U>(Making a list checking it twice re:Tue DEC 16 1997 18:23) ID#56215:

As I stated yesterday I am buying with both hands....

Hoping to ride this coming bull all the way up....

Can any of my fellow posters suggest some gold stocks that you would currently rate STRONG BUY, any ten bagger canidates would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you very much...

Please state what and why..

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:31
PrivateInvestor U>(John Disney ) ID#56215:

Glad you liked my post...or at least read it...I am still bullish on the Swiss Franc....how about you?

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:28
Gebernax U>(anyone wants to anger a bit) ID#419147:
If you feel the need to upset yourself a bit
read http://www.forbes.com, last issue
As I See It: As I See It

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 03:12
John Disney__A U>(Down with Switzerland) ID#24140:
For Private Investigator

I think that the BBC show on Switzerland is one

of the most wonderful propaganda efforts put

together since the days of Joe Goebbels.

I think we should nuke switzerland immediately and

try all swiss as war criminals ( after of course taking

all their money ) .

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 02:59
John Disney__A U>(Ah so Haggis san ?) ID#24140:

For Haggis -

Never understood why Japanese hold so many US Dollars. I like

them a lot. Lived there for 8 years. Got a little tired of the

food - never tired of the Turkish baths though.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 02:46
Haggis__A U>(John Disney...........) ID#398105:
G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

No matter how you look at it, the Japanese sure do have a lot of economic punch still available. The YEN is still financially independent, the issue there after and for the future is how do the Japanese protect themselves, both on a long and short term basis. They have tried the US dollar and bonds, really has not done them much good - done the Yanks alot. The Japanese save money on an individual basis, it would not take much for them to absorb the worlds available gold supply if they could get their hands on it. Makes a lot of sense it you wish to finance NEW or EXISTING GOLD MINES to head for Japan and do business. They have to accumulate more GOLD from their existing 0.4% equity base ( Bank of Japan July 1997 statement ) . I love Japanese food, much better than a McDonald.
Aye, Haggis

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 02:34
HighRise U>(PrivateInvestor @ Swiss Banks) ID#401460:
Thanks for the link to mankind’s sick past - History does repeat itself. Worth a read, no a must read, by all. We have to know and admit to what we are dealing with in this world.

From that site:

EDWARD FAGAN, Attorney: People are dying. The depositors are dying and the banks get rich because they take dead people's money.

NARRATOR: The case has pitted Jewish families against some of the most powerful financial interests in the world. All tell the same story: a Swiss account opened in the '30s, mysteriously vanished by the time they went looking for it. Some even had proof.

NARRATOR: Today, in New York, the Swiss banks are being sued for $20 billion by thousands of Holocaust survivors who say their money was stolen. Every day survivors call to join the case.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nazis/etc/script.html



Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 02:00
John Disney__A U>(ohio gozaimas you-all) ID#24140:
For the newtron

I read your posting about how lousy Japan was and I

was impressed.

After that quite by coincidence I was looking at the

back pages of the Economist, and I noticed that Japan

had 224 billion in foreign reserves. I then looked at

the US who had 56 bill ( down from 65 a year ago ) -

I was surprised to see that the US has less foreign

reserves than either Singapore or Taiwan.

224 billion $ is a lot of money.

Now I sure you can offer some really good explanation

of how this doesnt mean anything at all and is

unimportant etc etc , but I really would like to hear

it.


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 01:20
newtron U>(ZEN CONCEPT OF TIME SPACE & DOUBLE ENTRY BOOK KEEPING !) ID#335184:
JAPAN, INC., simply ignores it's losses and goes for market share.Yamaichi is merely the poster-boy standing on the tip of the ice berg, i.e. the entire banking & securities system. Think of all the failed S&L's of America crammed into a country smaller than California & a refusal to close these institutions. It boggles this occidental's mind!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 01:19
oris U>(@Private Investor/Your post of Dec.17,01:44) ID#238422:
I guess you are interested in investing in Russia or
something like that. Unfortunately, I cann't give
you any specific answers, because I am not familiar
with the subjects you mentioned in your post.

However, I feel comfortable to give you some ideas in
regard to:

1. NOVOLIPETSK PLANT

This is a very, very, very big steel mill, which
means that foreigners probably have no chances
to protect their shareholding rights IN RUSSIA.
Even if they sue and win, this plant IS STILL LOCATED
IN RUSSIA, and it's too important part of
Russian industry to be given away... by the Russian
Goverment and private interests inside Russia.
Russians will find some way to keep this plant for themselves.

2. RUSSIAN AND UKRAINE BONDS

Ukrainian bonds are much more risky investment
than Russian bonds. Ukraine is in terrible financial
shape, and I would never ever buy any bond debt issued
by Ukraine. Russian debt looks a little bit better.
Both countries pay much bigger interest in comparison to
what is considered to be normal in Western world,
but this is in fact payment for investment risk.

I never heard of Mr.G.CZAPLINSKY and his coin collection.

I do own small collection of different 1 ruble coins, issued
in the U.S.S.R in 60's, 70's and 80's, but it's all special alloy,
not gold or silver, of course. Still nice looking coins...








Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 01:06
PrivateInvestor U>(Good night Ted) ID#225283:

Chat with you later...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 01:04
PrivateInvestor U>(Japan : the clock is ticking) ID#225283:

Economist Mag recently reported that the Japanese government has taken a few accounting Liberties as well...reported to have at least two off the budget budgets that have gone bust.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:55
Ted U>(Kitco's workin like a charm) ID#364147:
Now that it's too late to say nothin....On a down note--Feb. Gold is down 1.90.....Gotta go get my 'beauty rest'----should take about 60 hours----
g'night all from the far East coast of North America~~~~~~~~~~~~~~$

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:52
PrivateInvestor U>(Good Day Oris) ID#225283:


Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:39
Ted U>(EB + Aurator + Earl..........SOCIALISM SUCKS) ID#364147:
EB: I saw the whole damn game and the 'Luckers' got their asses kicked!! Am actually puttin something in the snail mail for you tomorrow so if I know the Canadian postal service,you should get it by spring-summer...
Aurator: What the hell am I doin up @ 1:40 AM....and how ya doin mate Earl: ya got mail!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:35
newtron U>(JAPANS DIRTY FLOAT WON'T FLY - 140 YEN by JAN 20 !) ID#335184:
Japan, Inc. has not addressed it's problem which is systemic insolvency of it's entire banking structure ( 1.2 Trillion plus ) . $260 billion in US securities reserve doesn't come close to matching these liabilities even if they could be repatriated in a manner that did not collapse the US stock & bond market! Japan has exported it's capital to Korea & other Asian Tigers and they can't repay. Japan has hidden losses for ever, A LA Dawiwa, Summitomo &Yamaichi out the wazoo & now they honestly don't know which institutions are worth saving because all balance sheets are rotten from bogus accounting. Japan, Inc., cannot restructure because it cannot liquidate which is a function of it's political culture. As a result depression will linger and no one will join their call to support the Yen.
It seems the US $ only has AU to contend with for world reserve hegemony.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:32
PrivateInvestor U>(Edgar Bronfman welcome everyone to relive what happens when it hits the fan and the World resorts to) ID#225283:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nazis/etc/script.html

A historical look at Gold and the Swiss bankers.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:31
aurator U>(gleetings ) ID#255284:
Ted Éß, all G'day, looks like some life back in kitco if not in gold. Remember Éß, don't panic!

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:27
aurator U>(Sovereigns and Princes) ID#255284:

Good Ol'Boy
your 19:02 on low karat jewellery. It hurts. Yesterday, finally found a sovereign on chain, looking for a gift, NZ$500.00, price tag That's US$290.36. Looked at chain, maybe I thought, if it was 22K, nope. 9 measley karat.That's roughly US$1200 per oz? outofthere.

auragoodol'garrulousboyupuaj

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:25
oris U>(test) ID#238422:

test

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:14
Dwayne__A U>(Gold follows Japan Market down ?) ID#270230:

http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/je3tbc/nmain.html

Let's hope Europe pushes this price higher or atleast sideways !

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:13
EB U>(Ted.......just got in....) ID#22956:
And I saw the score...............ugh......well, one team showed up the other team GOT showed up. Damn! I lost 5 bucks to my blessed broker. Like he needs more of my money. That hurts the most. Hey, what ever happened to our wager on the world series!? Remember Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......I've been checking the mail everyday.....

away...to the mailbox
Éßreakingfingersnadthumbs...ohmy


i see gold skyrocketed today........sure...

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:11
bej U>(Gotta have some humor in all this.) ID#263133:
Ponderings:
If a man is standing in the middle of a forest speaking, and there is no
woman around to hear him, - Is he still wrong
If a deaf person swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?
If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it
a hostage situation?
Is there another word for synonym?
Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do practice.
When sign makers go on strike, is anything written on their signs?
When you open a bag of cotton balls, is the top one meant to be thrown
away?
Why isn't there mouse-flavored cat food?
What do you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered
plant?
If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?
Would a fly without wings be called a walk?
Why do they lock gas station bathrooms? Are they afraid someone will
clean them?
If a stealth bomber crashes in a forest, will it make a sound?
If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?
Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
If the police arrest a mime, do they tell him he has the right to remain
silent?
Why do they put Braille on the drive-thru bank machines?
How do they get the deer to cross at those yellow road signs?
Why do they sterilize the needles used for lethal injections?
Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?
Is it true that cannibals won't eat clowns because they think they taste
funny?
What was the best thing before sliced bread.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:10
vertigo U>(Shame!) ID#42371:
Gold is down $2 the Aussie producers must selling on this small bounce up.

Date: Thu Dec 18 1997 00:04
Schippi U>(Fidelity Select Gold Chart) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

I hope this chart brightens your Holidays.

Return to Home Page

Site design & maintenance by Nick Laird
All pages on this website are ©1998-2017 ShareLynx Gold - All Rights Reserved