KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:52
Gusto U>(George S. Cole) ID#417317:
For the many friends of George Cole:

I happened to notice a post from him on the SI gold chat site today. In replying to a question he said he does also post on Kitco but with a new handle. Didn't say what the handle was though. Should be able to make a good guess I would think based on his thoughtful writing style. The post was 12/13/97 at 3:06 PM.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:48
JRL U>(searching for something of value) ID#253414:
For months, now, I have used the scroll button every time a comment has started with LGB, ( and also, whenever possible, when comments contained references to LGB. ) As I've explained previously, life's too short and time is too valuable to get sucked into that kind of vortex. But just when I was about to complain that my scroll-button-finger has been getting sore lately, along comes a bombardment of farfel-clone-posts. I'd gladly trade all this drivel for one post from JIN. I hope, with all the turmoil in SE Asia, that he's doing okay.

JIN - Sawatdee Krup Koon Jin. Koon sabai dee reu? Deo nee mee kwam sook reu plao? Rao mai dai yin jahk koon nahn lao. Look forward to another post from you soon.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:48
Lurker 777 U>(P Floyd: is anybody out there) ID#317247:
Test. I repeat this is only a test. Gold is up limit.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:45
cherokee__A U>(@----he-bit-the-seed-of-knowledge-and-knew-it-not!) ID#344308:
lgb---

chemical reaction, exactly right.

what does the chemical reaction
produce? minute electrical charges. --synapse--

now, i synapse my fingers ( electro-chemically initiated )
and as your buddy eb says--------------away---

15 days or less and counting------the stock bear cometh.....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:18
Cyclist U>(uncoil) ID#339274:
FWIW the XAU should uncoil to 74.5,cover your bets.Don't be greedy
a ten point rise needs to be digested.Happy trading : )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:16
Cyclist U>(uncoil) ID#339274:
FWIW the XAU should uncoil to 74.5,cover your bets.Don't be greedy
a ten point rise needs to be digested.Happy trading : )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:05
JMARK U>(picking EB's bottom) ID#197304:
EB
I've been intrigued by your gold prognostications. Do we have a bottom yet?. You don't mention silver or platinum much?

AWAY to find EB

EBPHONEHOME!!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:02
Golden Boy U>(Bill Buckler) ID#430233:
Re double bottom on US P&F. Back between 6/4 and 8/6 on the chart a triple bottom formed and gold rallied then few back through that low. Any comments that the same will happen here. Rally, test the bottom, and ....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 23:01
Crystal Ball U>(@All) ID#287367:
Tomorrow morning is gonna be a wake-up call for the hapless gold shorts. $US and US Treasury bonds crashing. Gold and silver ZOOOOMIN !! Zoweee!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:53
Crystal Ball U>(@All) ID#287367:
Dec bonds down 21/32 see http://www.cbot.com/l3feus.htm
$US gettin' hosed big-time--
J-YEN MAR98 8045 +290
B-POUND MAR98 1.6368 +72
D-MARK MAR98 .5686A +43
SWISS FR MAR98 .7049A +35

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:47
Bill Buckler U>(Gold Charts - And Waigel meetings) ID#257234:
Sorry about the triple post earlier. Looks like farfel had even worse troubles getting on to Kitco. Anyway, lets try again:

New comparison $A - $US Gold charts up at The Privateer
http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/twogold.html

If the present Asian Gold rise carries on into U.S. trading tonight, there will be a double bottom on the $US 1x3 P&F Chart. If you check out the chart you will see it will occur at a very interesting position, just below the downtrend line.

On other matters:

Here's why Japan has zoomed up 800 points
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/instant_view_japan_1.html

And here's some more on the meetings between German Finance Minister Waigel with Greenspan, Rubin, and Clinton

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/u_s_germany_agree_i_1.html

Waigel has already met Rubin and Greenspan, will meet IMF head Camdessus tonight, and is meeting Clinton tomorrow.

Of course, the interesting items of discussion are the ones which will NOT be reported on.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:32
D.A. U>(money.supply.velocity.power.of.fed) ID#7568:
WSF:

Whatever understandings I have in economics is probably because I never studied any of it in school. When I think about this stuff I try to examine tractable cases at the transactional level and then try to see if my analysis makes sense at an aggregate level.

In response to your friend's question, I don't think that the changing nature of money, from paper to electronic has any real effect upon the concepts of the velocity of money, or the money supply. Credit cards do tend to make credit creation easier so would tend to have a positive effect upon money supply. On a microscale the velocity of money is related to a persons propensity to save or spend the marginal dollar of income. Why this should change as a result of money being represented electronically I can not see.

The question of the Fed's power in all of this is an important one. Clearly the Fed has asymetric power. It can very easily bring the economy to its knees but it can not force credit creation and economic activity regardless of the level of it accomodation. The stagnation in the Japanese economy for the last several years is testimony to the 'pushing on a string' analogy so often heard. I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I would guess that the Fed's power to slow the economy is much greater now than it has ever been. A large part of the economies sensitity to interest rate changes is probably because of the advent of variable rate mortgages. With such an enormous amount of household spending tied to the short end of the yield curve the Fed can change the income statement of many households quite abruptly.

Because the Fed has so much power, it will necessarily be subject to much greater political pressure to refrain from using it. In the long run this can mean only one thing, greater than expected inflation.

If I've totally missed the mark in regard to your query please fire back another question. I really enjoy thinking about this stuff and conversing with people who obviously have more than a clue.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:20
Niner U>(LGB and psuedoscience protagonists) ID#388434:
LGB: The Skeptical Enquirer is a great site for debunking many erroneous concepts. I would like to forward a site also, namely

http://www.tinaja.com
Follow the pseudoscience link.

For the voyeurs out there, an interesting link is located at

http://habrok.uio.no/ToiletCam.html
which places a real-time camera in a most unusual place. It might also describe gold's direction for several years . . .

JTF: I hope you saw my reply to you last nite where I said the 1.exe program is totally innocuous. I have it running on 2 computers, dozens of friends have it, and it is just a fun thing. I saw a post of yours earlier where you mentioned computer anomolies, and I hope you don't believe it was caused by that dialog box joke. I own a computer dealership and we get 'em up, not knock 'em down.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:17
Prometheus U>(farfel) ID#189273:
Well, I'm flattered. No one's ever called me a little old gold man before. Let's talk markets. Ok? For some reason, I've got over 20 of your last post ( chained to a rock ) coming through on my machine. Something's malfunctioning somewhere. Hope it isn't your enter key.

Whether or not the Barrick buyback had the same impact as the recent IBM announcement, I sure heard about it, on ordinary business lines. Don't recall if it was CNBC or the internet. Does it matter? The message was clear, the markets have overreacted. It is the responsibility of the owner, be he stockholder or CEO to buy shares when Mr. Market as Warren Buffett likes to call the stockmarket ( his manic depressive silent partner ) insists on offering them to him at less than fair ( read book ) value. Everything else is opinion. The CEO of Barricks is has a fiduciary responsibility to Barricks' owners and workers. Not the whole world.

Have you, perchance, found yourself on the bad side of recent trades?

If so, hold on. Japan may lead the way up again. Remember 1985 platinum? Hope I do as well in gold today as I did in platinum then!

By the way, I fully agree with you that some good PR in in order in the metals market. Why in the world do metals dealers continue to advertise like hucksters? and why in the world don't gold producers get together like orange growers, dairy farmers, beef growers, etc. Surely a few regular reminders of the value of the real thing would do good things to our short-memory friends out there in TV land.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:01
Crystal Ball U>(@All) ID#287367:
Hold onto your hats! Gold up $3.90 !! Yenner up 205 !!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 22:00
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:58
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:57
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:56
winston U>() ID#245319:


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:56
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:56
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:55
Bill Buckler U>(Gold Charts - and Waigel meetings) ID#257234:
New comparison $A - $US Gold charts up at The Privateer
http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/twogold.html

If the present Asian Gold rise carries on into U.S. trading tonight, there will be a double bottom on the $US 1x3 P&F Chart. If you check out the chart you will see it will occur at a very interesting position, just below the downtrend line.

On other matters:

Here's why Japan has zoomed up 800 points
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/instant_view_japan_1.html

And here's some more on the meetings between German Finance Minister Waigel with Greenspan, Rubin, and Clinton

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/u_s_germany_agree_i_1.html

Waigel has already met Rubin and Greenspan, will meet IMF head Camdessus tonight, and is meeting Clinton tomorrow.

Of course, the interesting items of discussion are the ones which will NOT be reported on.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:55
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:55
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:54
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:54
Bill Buckler U>(Gold Charts - and Waigel meetings) ID#257234:
New comparison $A - $US Gold charts up at The Privateer
http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/twogold.html

If the present Asian Gold rise carries on into U.S. trading tonight, there will be a double bottom on the $US 1x3 P&F Chart. If you check out the chart you will see it will occur at a very interesting position, just below the downtrend line.

On other matters:

Here's why Japan has zoomed up 800 points
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/instant_view_japan_1.html

And here's some more on the meetings between German Finance Minister Waigel with Greenspan, Rubin, and Clinton

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/u_s_germany_agree_i_1.html

Waigel has already met Rubin and Greenspan, will meet IMF head Camdessus tonight, and is meeting Clinton tomorrow.

Of course, the interesting items of discussion are the ones which will NOT be reported on.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:53
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:52
Bill Buckler U>(Gold Charts - and Waigel meetings) ID#257234:
New comparison $A - $US Gold charts up at The Privateer

http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/twogold.html

If the present Asian Gold rise carries on into U.S. trading tonight, there will be a double bottom on the $US 1x3 P&F Chart. If you check out the chart you will see it will occur at a very interesting position, just below the downtrend line.

On other matters:

Here's why Japan has zoomed up 800 points

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/instant_view_japan_1.html

And here's some more on the meetings between German Finance Minister Waigel with Greenspan, Rubin, and Clinton

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/u_s_germany_agree_i_1.html

Waigel has already met Rubin and Greenspan, will meet IMF head Camdessus tonight, and is meeting Clinton tomorrow.

Of course, the interesting items of discussion are the ones which will NOT be reported on.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:52
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:52
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:51
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:50
Bill Buckler U>(Gold Charts - and Waigel meetings) ID#257234:
New comparison $A - $US Gold charts up at The Privateer

http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/twogold.html

If the present Asian Gold rise carries on into U.S. trading tonight, there will be a double bottom on the $US 1x3 P&F Chart. If you check out the chart you will see it will occur at a very interesting position, just below the downtrend line.

On other matters:

Here's why Japan has zoomed up 800 points

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/instant_view_japan_1.html

And here's some more on the meetings between German Finance Minister Waigel with Greenspan, Rubin, and Clinton

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/u_s_germany_agree_i_1.html

Waigel has already met Rubin and Greenspan, will meet IMF head Camdessus tonight, and is meeting Clinton tomorrow.

Of course, the interesting items of discussion are the ones which will NOT be reported on.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:50
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:50
Haggis__A U>(FARFETECHED farfel) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Laddie, it is painfull enough reading a posting of yours once, BUT to post the same article 12 times............. that is VERY painfull.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:49
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:48
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little strategem with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:48
DEJ U>(Asian gold markets.) ID#269191:
Gold up $3.70 in Asian markets. Any connection to the 30+ basis point
rise is lease rates?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:47
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:47
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:47
Crunch U>(@ WDL) ID#344290:
URL for S+Ps still won't come up - if you try again go back and see if you can retreive - many thanks

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:47
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:47
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:45
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:45
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:45
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:45
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:44
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:44
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:43
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:43
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:43
LGB U>(Nikkei FLYIN high....) ID#269409:

Tuesday December 16, 9:05 pm Eastern Time

Tokyo Nikkei bolts 5 pct higher in late morning

TOKYO, Dec 17 ( Reuters ) - Tokyo stocks benchmark surged over five percent in late trading on Wednesday morning cheered by Prime
Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto's announcement a 2 trillion yen special income tax cut will be implemented.

As of 0144 GMT, the Nikkei average was up 805.90 points or 5.04 percent at 16,791.11, erasing losses which brought it to a low of 15,795.20
early in the morning.

Its March futures were up 880 at 16,850, 120 points away from the daily limit.

``This is the sort of news that the market has been waiting for,'' a trader at a middle-sized brokerage said.

Hashimoto on Wednesday announced a one-off cut in the national income tax to jump-start the country's stalled economy.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:42
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold mining industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:42
HighRise U>(Qestor@Observations) ID#401460:
Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:12
Qestor@Observations ( Tyler Rose,Comex Delivery ) ID#223146:
Today I received copies of my receipts for delivered gold contracts from Lind Waldock & Co. Gold is currently stored at
Chase.
Figures! Chase is owned by the Rockefellers and the Chase owns the Federal Reserve Bank.
Same old Crap - Business as usual.

Everyone heard didn't you?, that they got what they wanted yesterday - Asia has agreed to open their markets to US Banks.

All markets can go up now, including Gold.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:42
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:41
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:41
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:41
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:41
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were praying for something to turn the tide...something like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A MUCH MORE DRAMATIC MOVE by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:38
223 U>(Cherokee re 19:13 post...jousting with chiggers?) ID#26669:
If the measure of a man is the greatness of his enemies then trading insults with LGB would surely shrink you, cousin. Look to the hunt instead...pickings are slim:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/971216/rea_gold_bissett_min_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/ny_precious_metals_e_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/markets_precious_1st_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:37
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little piece of puffery with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A much more dramatic move by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:37
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little piece of puffery with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A much more dramatic move by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:35
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. That's because most investors are long the market, their funds ensconced in the hands of the mutual funds cartel.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A much more dramatic move by the gold industry is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:32
Haggis__A U>(farfel.....CHANGE THE PERCEPTION....change your name) ID#398105:

G'day,

Laddie, do us ALL a favour, change your name. FARFETCHED really suits you.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:32
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A much more dramatic move is imperative in order to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:31
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A much more dramatic move than a single company's share buyback is required to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention ( and his money ) on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:30
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

A much more dramatic move than a single company share buyback is required to get the average Dow bull to focus his attention on the bullish prospects of gold. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:29
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:28
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:27
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement.

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) .

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:27
WSF U>(while I'm here) ID#188244:
Dave in CO- I think you and I agree on many things, and I mean no offense, but I must side with LGB on the OJ issue. While I think Ron Brown was murdered, be it by a plane brought down or a bullet in the head, I don't think the poll you mentioned is worth citing, given the response to the OJ question. I'm assuming the polling methods were the same. I don't think LGB's comment was racist- I may have missed a few, but my take is that he was saying ' Consider the source', meaning not black people, but people who overwhelmingly think OJ is innocent. I don't like LGB's delivery any more than most here, but we have to separate the message from the messanger.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:25
Haggis__A U>(farfel...............FARFETCHED) ID#398105:

G'Day from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

farfel, why don't you change your name to FARFETCHED. Have you been part of NASA's Mars programme? Have you just returned from there?!

You should do some homework and get your facts right, opinions really do not matter.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:25
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) . CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:25
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) . CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:25
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) . CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:25
farfel U>(Prometheus...One More Thing WHile You are Chained to That Rock!) ID#28585:
Re: the Barrick share buyback. You cannot compare the basic ineffectiveness and pointlessness of that little maneuver with the IBM share buyback announced in October.

You know what the big difference is? When the market was falling like a rock off a cliff in October, MOST investors were hoping something would happen to turn the tide. They were praying for some phenomenon to occur like the IBM buyback announcement. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

With gold, most investors are rooting against the metal. That's because most investors are All-American bulls and they perceive gold-bugs to be Anti-American bears. CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

The Barrick share buyback might make gold-bugs feel better...but it had absolutely no effect upon the average financial bull ( who is now gleefully shorting gold ) . CHANGE THE PERCEPTION!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:23
Haggis__A U>(farfel...............FARFETCHED) ID#398105:

G'Day from Kalgoorlie in Western Australia.

farfel, why don't you change your name to FARFETCHED. Have you been part of NASA's Mars programme? Have you just retured from there?!

You should do some homework and get your facts right, opinions really do not matter.

Aye, Haggis

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:22
TZADEAK* U>(@ The(PRINTING)Game.) ID#372344:
As I suggested here a few times now that the Game ( rescue SE asian economies ) was at who was going to print ( INFLATE ) the US or Japan.Well guess what THEY BOTH ARE! Clinton said tonite more HELPshould be given to SE Asia, thru the IMF of course and Japan appears to be giving citizens tax breaks to stimulate economy.But As I also mentioned watch for their methods to restrain Gold.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:18
D.A. U>(on.the.charts) ID#7568:
EB:

Looks like an ursine surrender formation to me.

Your 18 hours are up. My horse is growing horns, in an equinous bovinous transmogrification. Not something with which to be messed.

But then, you were warned. Off to build a suitable display case.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:18
vronsky U>(Government Bonds, Money and South-East Asia: The Great Deception) ID#426220:
If we accept that government bonds and currencies are at best an illusion of wealth, and that stock markets trading at 5 times book value may be over-priced in view of falling profits and currency upheaval, then the only investment alternative is gold. Realizing this, governments have driven down the price of gold. In order for the world to continue to believe in the government promoted illusion, the price of gold must continue to fall. If the world were not on the edge of an economic collapse, the price of gold would not be so low. An analysis by John Kutyn:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/kutyn121797.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:16
ValuePro U>(LGB - Mammoth Lakes) ID#25758:

Don't know where you are, but Mammoth Lakes is in the Sierra

in eastern CENTRAL California. While the area has shown indications

potential volcanic activity, it has done so for years. The danger of

such an event with a Mt. St. Helen's-type ash fall is that it may

blanket the nation's most productive food basket, the San Joaquin

Valley, and ruin it forever. Of course, the ash fall could just drift over Nevada and become a different type of fallout on nuclear test

sites.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:16
tolerant1 U>(farfel) ID#31868:
Two observations. One don't quit your day job to go into marketing and or public relations.

Two, you will never see $40.00 gold in your lifetime unless they revalue the US dollar by sliding the decimal point way over.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:16
Allen(USA) U>(TOKYO MONEY MACHINE) ID#255190:
After printing 25+% cash and throwing it at the banks and brokerages we see they can just about keep the Nikkie at 16,000. How reassuring!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:14
WSF U>( to D.A.) ID#188244:
D.A.
I've never posed a question directly to you, but I read your posts with a keen eye. You seem to have a pure understanding of economics/finance, something I would have claimed years ago but am increasingly becoming less certain of. When I was a grad student at MIT in economics ( i.e. pure math ) , a friend of mine posed a question to none other than Stan Fischer that went something like, With the proliferation of credit cards and electronic banking, what is the meaning of velocity and money supply? I don't think he got an answer, and I remember thinking the question was a good one, but now I think it is more relevant than ever. Not because of credit cards, but because of the Fed. I simply don't know how to think of the Fed's power using conventional models. I think I join Who Cares in this respect. What are your thoughts on this?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:12
Qestor@Observations U>(Tyler Rose,Comex Delivery) ID#223146:
Today I received copies of my receipts for delivered gold contracts from Lind Waldock & Co. Gold is currently stored at Chase.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:09
tolerant1 U>(Japan) ID#31868:
They are attributing the rise in Tokyo to a one time 2 tillion yen tax income break.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:09
farfel U>(Prometheus, I Hope Your Brain's Not as Damaged as Your Liver....) ID#28585:
You are just another tired old gold man who, like the rest of your ilk in this tired old industry, thinks that if he continues doing things the same old way, everything's gonna be just find and dandy again. Well, it ain't...gold is heading for complete collapse ( $35-$40 an ounce ) . That's what it's worth if all the Central Banks dump it. That's what they are doing. There's no denying the cold reality of the situation.

OK, now do I have your attention. Get your head out from between your_____ and listen to another perspective for once in your super-annuated, close- minded life.

First, don't talk about kicking Peter Munk when he's down. He's not down in any way shape or form. He's filthy rich and his company Barrick is the wealthiest N. American producer. The reason they're so rich is because they sold most of their production out at $410 an ounce. The psychological damage inflicted on the market by that move was simply unfathomable. What Central Bank in it's right mind is going to hold a gold reserve that has had 0 appreciation over a decade...and on top of that, watch gold producers like Barrick dump even more gold on the market every year...and on top of that passively witness such a company sell forward most of its supply at the all-time '95 high? For a Central Bank to hold gold today on a sheer financial basis is simply abject stupidity...beyond the realm of retardation. For idiots like yourself to simply add fuel to the fire of destruction is even dumber. STOP!
RETHINK! CHANGE! IT'S NOT TOO LATE!

This industry must dramatically alter the perception it sends to the Central Banks and rest of the world. For short term pain, I assure you there will be long time gain. THe market today has nothing to do with fundamentals anymore...it is a market of perception.

So change the damn perception. Cut off supply and focus your attention upon demand. Propagandize the imperative value of the metal...in the same way that financial bulls continually propagandize the The New Paradigm and other such similar prattle. The financial bulls are winning the war...their propaganda is more effective and much more widespread.

The liquidation of the gold will continue so long as the New Paradigm
disciples succeed in convincing CB's and investors in general to switch out of the metal and put their funds into the stock and bond markets.
The New Paradigm disciples are increasingly desperate. Mutual fund inflows dropped dramatically last month. It is impossible to sustain the stratospheric heights of the stock and bond markets in the absence of increasing mutual fund flows each month. It is like a huge Ponzi scheme that needs new funds all the time. That's why precious metals are being targeted right now. It is necessary to grab capital wherever you can find it in order to maintain high levels of mutual fund inflows.

One final word on poor old Peter Munk...he's shifted huge amounts of assets into one of the largest property developers in the world ( Trizec-Hahn ) . Given his past track record, you can bet he will shift most of Barricks assets into Trizec well before the imminent collapse in the gold market.



Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:09
Dave in CO U>(@Prometheus) ID#215211:
LBG is the one who cited the OJ poll not me. He's the one branding groups of people as ignorant.

Won't clog up the line any more and interfere with your reading of LGB's words of wisdom. Bye.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:02
vronsky U>(TOKYO SILVER) ID#426220:
Early Wednesday morning in Tokyo sees Silver up 2%.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:02
EB U>(yes.D.A.it.is.the.pennant.and.market.direction.stuff.hmm.) ID#22956:
The pennant is starting ( or completing? ) it's formation. The break down of gold at the end-of-day shows me MORE weakness in the future. Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock..............

away...to the charts

Éßcrossingfingersandtoesohmy

http://router.minot.com/~bohl/ go to Feb gold Daily....what's it look like?.....ugh...... ( big Smile ) .... ( wink mailed ) ..... ( more smiles ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:02
Dwayne__A U>(Currency Cross Rates) ID#270230:

Indeed Asia markets up...The rallie in gold must mean the US$ is starting to finally come down a liitle. Does anyone know a good Japanese or Hong Kong Homepage that gives up to the date info on everything goingon's in Asia.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 21:01
tolerant1 U>(Tricky) ID#31868:
The Prudent Bear is a solid fund. Bearx is a $40,000,000.00 fund which in their own words is not for everybody. It is managed by David Tice and he believes the 500 point drop in a day was an appetizer.

As for the tech stocks they short, Micron Technology, Quantum, and Energy Corp as an example.

From my vantage point the fund is solid, well run and positioned to take advantage of the downturn in the market which I believe is imminent. If you wish to learn more about David Tice you can go to:

http://www.strategicinvestment.com

I have roughly 1000 units and add as I can. FWIW I think they will do very well.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:58
Crystal Ball U>(@All) ID#287367:
What's the deal? Gold up $3.00. Howcum?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:55
LGB U>(EASTERN markets kicking booty and taking names!) ID#269409:
Wow, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, India, Australia, all way up.......Asian flu in remission!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:53
STUDIO.R U>(@ALL....THREE HAPPY PEOPLE AT THE DINNER TABLE TONIGHT.) ID#93232:
My younger daughter came home tonight from college for the Holidays...Holy Days. Life is wonderful for us. Our dinner prayer was for the miners and oil field workers and their families....Kate...May great joy come to your home.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:51
Prometheus U>(To Dave in CO) ID#189273:
Dave, please get off this thread. This is tired, and it's not leading anywhere you want to go. Besides, you made the other fellow's point for him. Any insult you may have taken from his statement of fact, a poll result, is entirely inferred from your opinion of that poll. So he juxtaposed two polls. What the hell is racist about that? Any racism is in your head - your opinion of the O. J. Simpson poll. Let it go. There's gold in them there hills.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:48
WSF U>(MoReGoLd(sorry if I didn't get the CAPS right)) ID#188244:
We've been told so many times that Clinton is a coke head, from no less an expert than his brother, that anyone who claims surprise in 25 years is an idiot or a liar. But I'm sure there will be many.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:47
Neophyte U>(Nikkei up) ID#390249:
Nikkei is now up over 800 points. Hashimoto was supposed to have a press conference at 10:30 AM Tokyo time. He must have said something impressive. I haven't been able to find anything yet. Maybe he said something positive about gold - like they're now buying gold and selling treasuries. ( Wishful thinking of course )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:35
D.A. U>(gold.silver) ID#7568:
Spot gold up 3.00.
Go Gold.
Spot Silver up 0.06.
Go Silver.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:35
Prometheus U>(Tricky ) ID#189273:
Checked out the Prudent Bear fund online. Ain't technology grand? High management fees @ 2.7%, also if it's not in your IRA, you may be paying income taxes on dividends annually even if you reinvest them. But most interesting strategy. Unlike yourself, I am NEVER sure that any market position is a sure thing, no-fail proposition.

Didn't see the current list of stocks shorted by them, but some of those tech stocks are going to be profiting greatly because they are productivity enhancers. This new thin-client technological change that is about to overtake our economy in the next few years will generate much income for the likes of Cisco and other networking stocks. Recession is actually a plus when what you sell lowers other folks' cost of doing business. I know, I'm a surviver of the big old computer recession of the mid-80's.

I'd rather talk about gold. It's looking mighty pretty at the moment.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:33
Dwayne__A U>(Gold + $3.00) ID#270230:
This seems like a first in awhile .....Asia actually pulling very nicely UPWARDS !

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:32
Dave in CO U>(LGB - No the thread ends when you apologize for racist statements) ID#215211:
Your statement that 99% in BET poll think that OJ Simpson was innocent...No further comment needed was a REBUTTAL to my statement that 70% in BET poll think Ron Brown was murdered; i.e., Black Americans are ignorant so the poll is invalid. If your rebuttal was a joke you still need to apologize.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:31
MoReGoLd U>(@Clinton - How did this dude become president anyway?) ID#348286:
I used to know a coke addict, and he had constant problems with his sinuses from snorting coke. Correct me if im wrong, but Clinton has cronic sinus problems, no?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:29
LGB U>(@ Dave the Race Baiter, 20:04) ID#269409:
Dave, it does indeed read like a joke if you've been reading my comments here at any time in the past. I post sarcastic, satirical, and frequent jokes to make a comment on the strength of a rationale.

The rascism accusation is baseless, offensive, and inappropriate. My point in that sarcastic joke was obvious...namely this...BET polls on Ron Brown do not add to the issue of proof since their same polls during the OJ trial showed that Blacks believed in OJ's innocence by a wide margin.

I went on to amplify my view in subsequent posts, that it was NOT black ignorance or inability to be fair that resulted in this perception, but the fact that judge ITO allowed slick Johhny to inappropriately play the race card and control the trial ( and the perceptions of the jury/evidence/media/etc. )

I also made it clear in subsequent posts that Blacks statistically convict black defendants at a HIGHER rate than white juries do, making it ABUNDANTLY clear that there is no rascist motive or misunderstanding of Black fairness/ability in these matters.

You are blatantly and intentionally distorting my views, my statements, my posts, and my beliefs to try and make you race baiting point, and you're stooping to false rascism accusations to do it. I find this grossly abhorrent, an egregious example of disingenuity, and will entertain no further discussion on the matter, since you have stooped to thsi level. Go back to your aromatherapy or something and drop this thread.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:27
tolerant1 U>(MoreGold) ID#31868:
Every door-man in NYC knew Kennedy had women all over the city. It was known.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:23
Dave in CO U>(@Highrise) ID#215211:
Yes, Roger Clinton went to prison for possessing ( and selling? ) cocaine. And Roger worked for Lassiter. Thanks.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:23
MoReGoLd U>(@Only In America !) ID#348286:
Dave, HighRise: We now find out that Kennedy couldn't keep his weenie in his pants, 25 years from now we will be told that Clinton
was a Coke head.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:23
STUDIO.R U>(@StarShine....re: Slaying Dragoons) ID#93232:
I paid $83. each for an order of 100...4 to 6 weeks delivery and the price was based on $285. spot. USAgold. Phillies....299. Liberties....460. I feel a little guilty....How cheap it is! ( Jackie Gleason )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:21
tricky U>(Quite a turn around in Japan) ID#304282:
8:19PM 16281.62 +296.41 8:19PM

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:19
WDL U>(@overnight markets) ID#24095:
Fasten your seatbelts! Feb. gold at 288.1...what's up?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:17
Dave in CO U>(@Highrise) ID#215211:
Yes, the pres. has refused to release his medical data. He even fired his first Dr. for reasons related to this.

Lassiter, close Clinon friend who accessed gov. mansion through a back door, went to prison for distributing ( giving away ) cocaine. When I wasted my time watching the W.W. hearings, I saw Lassiter admit to giving cocaine to underaged girls. Clinton, as gov., pardoned Lassiter. Thanks.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:16
LGB U>(@ Cherokee.....Ending the thread) ID#269409:
OK Cherokee, I re-read your post and want to make a final off topic response re electro magnetism and the human body.

Firstly, spelling is irrelevant here I hope we can fine common ground on that one. ( Since I type way too fast and make far too many mistakes to concede otherwise.

Secondly, I understand defibrillators pretty well since I had one used on me....before I ended up undergoing heart surgery for a condition known as Wolf Parkinson White syndrome, which involves nerve paths in the heart. ( Ironically, the method used to medically resolve the problem involved an RF probe, burning out the offending nerve path ) .

In extensive discussion with the physicians and Cardiologists who performed the surgery, at University of S.F. teaching hospital, these learned Gentleman who are tops in their field, explained to me how nerve paths work and that they are NOT operated on electrical currents prodcued by the body, but CHEMICAL reactions. Further, the way defibrillators work is that since the body IS a conductor, ( being full of water and metals and carbon and such ) you can convulse a muscle such as the heart ( or any other ) by inducing an electrical charge, however, this in no way means that electrical impulses or currents are the normative means for operation of same. A frequency for various organs? Come now.

As to valences, I havn't had basic chemistry or physics for quite some time, but I do know that electrons are freed to move from atom to atom by induced forces ( including electromagnetic ones obvoiously ) which is the basis for electricity and electronic as you know, but this is NOT the same thing as atomic force, as you also shold know, and why you're confusing the two, only you can say.

now then CHerokee, I apologize for being overly biting and sarcastic in my demeanor, it's something I struggle with in this type of forum ( though not in real life ) , so I'd prefer to let you have the final word, smoke the peace pipe, drop the thread, and get back to making our fortunes.....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:12
WDL U>(@ markets) ID#24095:
Feb. gold to 287.5...get your rally caps on!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:08
HighRise U>(Dave in CO ) ID#401237:
Clinton's biggest supporter in Ark. was Lassiter now a convicted drug dealer. He let the Clintons use his plane or planes for campaigning. I think his brother was into drugs and worked indirectly for Lassiter?

Some think this relationship has something to do with Clinton not releaseing the results of his physical.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:04
Dave in CO U>(@LGB the racist) ID#215211:
You're like the ATF agent who testified that the helicopters didn't shoot at the Davidians. When the question was posed slightly differently, he said that the guns mounted on the copters didn't shoot and that he didn't mean that agents on the copters didn't shoot.

In addition to saying that anyone who believes in acupuncture is ignorant ( e.g., 100's of millions of Asians ) , here are the 2 posts that illustrate the rest:
*************************************************************************
Date: Fri Dec 12 1997 20:40
LGB2__A ( 99% in BET poll think that OJ Simpson was innocent ) ID#316409:
No further comment needed


Date: Fri Dec 12 1997 20:38
Dave in CO ( 70% in BET poll think Ron Brown was murdered ) ID#215211:
Christopher Ruddy appeared last night on Tavis Smiley show to discuss
his coverage of the Ron Brown controversy.
*************************************************************************

After I reeled you in, hook, line, and sinker, you disappeared for a couple of days. NOW you claim this was a joke. Doesn't read like a joke does it, Kitco?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:01
Mike Sheller U>(obproj@i-2000.com) ID#347447:
JTF: Tried to get thru noonish, but couldn't get a post out. Technical troubles. Use email above. You're welcome anytime. Just be gentle with the Quantum stuff.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 20:00
Tantalus Rex U>(Moneyline) ID#295111:
ALL: Just heard a guy on CNN's Moneyline, ( a former Fed Gov and now with Bear Stearns, but I didn't catch his name ) . He says Gold will go down to $260 an oz. He also believes there will be ZERO inflation for a very long time. And this guy is supposed to be an expert on Gold as he has tracked it for a long time. Well, he hasn't scared me cause I see through him!! I just bought more gold and I'm happy I pumped much more money into ABX last week. Ciao for now.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:59
Neophyte U>(A small CB is mobilizing its gold reserves.) ID#390249:
The precious metals update I receive daily from Infobeat includes the following:

Gold prices have reached the $285 technical target so its not surprising we're seeing some fund shortcovering and producer hedge buybacks, though news another CB, albeit a small one, was mobilizing its gold reserves helped turned gold prices lower midsession Refco NY analyst Tim Porter said.

Could a CB be mobilizing it's gold reserves for any other reason than to sell it?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:58
LGB U>(@ Ted) ID#269409:
Watch out for those contingencies! Do an as is and congrats....now you can buy Silver!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:50
LGB U>(@ a.j....lasers) ID#269409:
Hmmm well I know they're effectively using lasers for everything from opthamological surgery to hair removal, quite effectively, and I know that lasers can penetrate different materials in different ways and with different results, depending on type and frequency ( CO2, vs. Yitrium, etc. ) , but yours is a new one that I havn't heard of so I'd be hard pressed to venture an opnion. ( Please frame these words Kitcoites for posterity )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:44
tricky U>(Bear) ID#304282:
No I am not hedging. I am currently 36% Prudent Bear Fund, 27% Gold Coins ( $5 and $10 Libs ) , 18% Gold Mutual Fund, 18% Cash.

I hold the gold stock fund because stocks usually react stronger than the metal itself. Also, there is a ton of money that has to be invested in stocks ( ie pension funds ) . When the market really tanks portfolio managers will want to take their money out of the techs and blue chips that will get destroyed. Where will they put this money? My suggestion-Gold Stocks.

This is the first time I have ever shorted the market, but I feel that there is virtually no upside risk and the downside potential is awesome. You can't make money w/o placing a bet. I believe that the Asia situation is much worse than people expect and it is only a matter of time before it has a bigger impact. Russia Brazil, and Maylasia ( sp ) are the most likely next victims. I think we are very close to falling into a worldwide recession/depression. With the highest stock valuations in the 20th century our markets cannot afford a small error not to mention the Global Disaster I am expecting. The following URL is the best summation I have read.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/kutyn111597.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:43
Dave in CO U>(Robert D. Novak on Secret Life of Bill Clinton by A. Evans-Pritchard) ID#215211:
If this is true, it is relevant to gold and financial markets:

...As governor, Clinton was deep into the cocaine culture --- both as a user and as an associate of drug-peddlers...

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a51265.htm

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:42
vronsky U>(ASIA BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDSPOT (December 15, 1997)) ID#427357:

The ORACLE of the Orient long absent from our website has returned with a vengeance in his scathing rebuttal of Central Bank spewing that “gold is dead,” that “gold is no longer a hedge against economic and currency chaos,” etc. etc. His succinct and extremely well-documented opinion concludes that Central Bank braying is “RUBBISH, RUBBISH AND MORE RUBBISH.”

The ORACLE proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the only defense southeast Asians had... AND WILL HAVE - against the on-going currency chaos, stock market turmoil and the region’s crumbling bank system is to invest in GOLD. The staunchest and most fanatical anti-GOLDBUGS are obliged to concede to the irrefutable evidence that GOLD is the ONLY SAFE HARBOR vis-à-vis the looming and devastating Domino Effect engulfing the area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle121597.html


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:42
a.j. U>(@LGB) ID#256201:
Need your take on the new thing called laser therapy.
I recently underwent six treatments where a laser was used. It purports to rearrange the ions or sumpin. I can state unequivocably that the first treatmewnt ( of 33 seconds duration ) caused a cessation of pain in my shoulder which was initially injured in 1949.
Tried all sorts of stuff previously, some effective for short duration, some not effective at all. Have suffered moderately for quiet a spell now. I mean up to the time I was given the treatments.
The device was used on my thoracic and cervical vertabrae, with nearly as good effect as on the shoulder.
Sounds to me as if it may have been similar to the placebo effect you mention re: magnetics.
Whatever ir was, it feels good all over now. More than 3 months since treatment. Your opinion and evaluation?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:38
A.Goose U>(Nice start for the Nikkei tonight.) ID#20137:


Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 7:36PM 15823.88 -161.33 -1.01%

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:37
LGB U>(Asian Crisis THIS) ID#269409:
Tuesday December 16, 6:58 pm Eastern Time

Stocks jump for second day; technology sector lead rally

( Adds details, analyst comment )

NEW YORK, Dec 16 ( Reuters ) - Stocks flew higher for the second straight session Tuesday as investors loaded up on some of the recently
battered technology shares.

Based on early, unofficial results, the Dow Jones industrial average ended up 53.72 points at 7,976.31 after jumping 84 points Monday.

In the broader market, advancing issues led declines by a 17-to-12 margin on active volume of 628 million shares on the New York Stock
Exchange.

The technology-laced Nasdaq composite index rose 16.42 points to 1,552.98.

The market greeted with a yawn the Federal Reserve's decision to leave short-term interest rates unchanged, as had been widely expected.

In the bond market, the 30-year Treasury rose 3/32, with its yield holding at Monday's close of 5.97 percent. Bond prices and yields move in
opposite directions.

Much of the day's focus was in renewed life in tech stocks, which had suffered sharp losses in the past week amid profit warnings from some
leading companies and concerns that Asia's economic crisis would hurt the group's growth.

``I think the high tech stocks have been pummeled enough that they're probably going to have a little rally now too,'' said Harry Laubscher,
market analyst at Tucker Anthony.

The Fed left the overnight Federal funds rate, which determines borrowing costs throughout the economy, at 5.5 percent at its last
policy-making meeting this year.

The central bank's decision came after further evidence of tame U.S. inflation. On Tuesday the government reported the overall and core
Consumer Price Index rates rose 0.1 percent in November, half the increase expected by economists.

Among leading high tech shares, International Business Machines Corp. [NYSE:IBM - news] gained 2-12/16 to 103-9/16 in NYSE trading.
Compaq Computer Corp. [NYSE:CPQ - news] rose 2-15/16 to 57-3/8. On Nasdaq, Microsoft Corp. [Nasdaq:MSFT - news] rose 2-15/16 to
139-1/16 and Cisco Systems Inc. [Nasdaq:CSCO - news] finished up 2-5/8 to 80-1/8.

Swiss-based orthopedics concern Sulzer Medica Ltd said it agreed to buy Spine-Tech Inc. [Nasdaq:SPYN - news], a Minneapolis-based maker
of medical devices for spinal treatment, for $595 million. Sulzer fell 1-15/16 to 20-5/16 in U.S. trading. Spine-Tech gained 6 to 51-1/2

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:36
HighRise U>(Quote.com MSFT) ID#401237:
You may test Quote.com without registering. As long as you use the symbol MSFT you will be able to do just about anything, but you must also use username=demo and password=demo.

They own this too?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:35
LGB U>(@ Dave in CO........there it is, the inevitable race card) ID#269409:
Excuse me Mr. race card but now you're pissin me off! I said NO SUCH THING as you just attributed to me, making you a collasal liar in the first degree. there's nothing more abhorrent than someone spewing ignorance, being called on it, and then reverting to the racism nonsense such as you are doing.

Go back and read those posts. You sir, have debased and discredited yourself comnpletely with that rascist pap. Your accusation has the same level of validity as your belief in Fairy tale magnet therapies.

Back to my old good humor now....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:34
DEJ U>(Lease Rates.) ID#270236:
The lease rates went up today. What gives? Is another central bank getting ready to sell?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:33
StarShine U>(STUDIO.R Sovs) ID#290305:
If you don't mind my asking, what did you pay for your pre 33 Sovs? I recently was quoted $85/each in quantity.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:32
Shek U>(to all) ID#287279:
Boys,
I have not been here for a while. Has Puetz been posting recently?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:31
HighRise U>(Gold Eagle) ID#401237:
A friend told me today that they want $350to order an Gold American Eagle and $304 for one in stock?


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:31
a.j. U>(@Kate;Ritzand Tyler rose) ID#256201:
Kate and Ritz. Left Wmca five years ago this coming Friday. Back in Clintonia ( arkansas ) WaS IN wMCA FOR FIVE YEARS. iT ENABLED US TO COME BACK HERE. nOW WE'RE TOO BROKE TO LEAVE. ( :+^} ( note the tongue in cheek )
Spoke w/ Ken LOrds in Wmca this past Sunday. He said there have been over 100 laid off in and around Wmca and more expecting it.
We went through the same stuff while I was mining for ten years, back in 50s and 60s.
I went to college as an adult so we could have some stability. Now I'm a Gold Bug lookin' for some stability. ( :+ ) }
Tyler Rose: We buy plants ever tam we goes ta Mount Sylvan and/or Lindale and Tyler.
Son in law is D.C. Service in Mount Sylvan and Marco in Lindale.
He's the one what gits da gold!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:28
LGB U>(@ CHerokee) ID#269409:
Sorry Cher, but scientific facts stand on their own merits and don't need me to defend them. Any physicist can tell you that atomic force is not electromagnetic, however, it IS a force that is poorly understood, if at all, similar to the force of gravity, and forms one of the great mysteries of the universe.

As a non physicist, I don't claim to understand it, and only a fool would ( not that I'm pointing a finger mind you ) but I DO understand electromagnetism, and that your post about preventing scale on pipes ( not to mention all the other nonsense claimed for magnets like increased fuel mileage ) has been totally disproven already by well performed studies.

Believe in VooDoo all you want pal, electrical background or no..it's your privilege..and that's what freedon is all about eh? Else we wouldn't have chocolate, and Strawberry ice cream...however, what you believe and what I believe will not change the facts of science. Those facts could care less about us one way or ther other and are not subject to your wishful whimsy.

( now here are those strap on mind magnets, I plan to boost my cognitive ability tonight by molecularly re-aligning my neural synapses )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:27
prisbrian U>(LOOKING FOR LAN MAN re: MONETARY CONTROL ACT) ID#171240:
Lan Man, are you online? Have something for you to read. Please reply.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:26
Prometheus U>(Tricky bear) ID#189273:
Are you hedging a long position in the tech stocks or going bare bear?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:26
BillD U>(Hey Ted...) ID#261269:
With all that good news...you forgot to mention that Gold and Silver up today at comex and after hours!! Go SSC

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:25
OLD GOLD U>(crystal ball?) ID#238295:
Glenn; You could be right about new lows in gold. Fifty-fity chance the way I seed it. But probably not much below $280.

What disturbs me is the impession you are 100% certain you knnow exactly where gold is going and when. This smacks of immature judgement and overconfidence. If gold does hit your target of $255, I'm quite sure you will then be calling for $225. One of these days the charts will lead you astray.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:25
WDL U>(@S & P Futures) ID#24095:
Crunch: S&P Futures in realtime ( tick-by-tick... ) bring up the following URL
http://www.quote.com/cgi-bin/jchart-form?genApplet=yes
Then...punch up in the window SP8H ( S&P 98 H march ) .

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:25
Dave in CO U>(And Cherokee, not only that he's a ) ID#215211:
racist. In the last few days LGB has said that the 70% of Black Americans who believe Ron Brown was murdered are ignorant. And the 90% of Black Americans who believe OJ was innocent are ignorant. And the 100's of millions of Asians who believe that acupuncture works are ignorant.

And I guess the large health insurance companies who cover alternative therapies, e.g., accupuncture, massage therapy, ( not voodoo, psychic healing, or snakeoil ) must be ignorant too.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:24
Shek U>(OK!) ID#287279:
From Stephen Leeb,
The GNPs of Thailand, Singapore and India combined are not as large as Intel and Microsoft.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:21
Crunch U>(@WDL) ID#344290:
I couldn't get your 17:34 to post, please put it up again. Thanks -

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:20
Ted U>(Whatta Day!!) ID#364147:
Ended my losing streak at the casino ( yip-E ) got home to find my ISP down ( how surprising ) and whene I just got online found an e-mail from our realtor with a offer on our property ( yip-E ) but since it is 30 grand ( 180-150 ) under our asking price think I'll have ta counter offer--a judge in New Orleans....here comes da judge--here comes da judge...This has really caught me offguard ( to say the least ) and gotta put me thinkin cap on.....splttin the difference sounds fair ta me ( 165 )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:20
Shek U>(From Adrian Day re SE Asia.) ID#287279:
I think the economic outlook is by no means as dire as the headlines would suggest...Despite all the problems Asia is still the fastest growing region with 6% plus grwoth ... In virtually all these countries inflation is under control.

Interesting

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:16
tolerant1 U>(Gold Call) ID#31868:
If gold goes up in price it will become more expensive. However, if it goes down in price it will become less expensive. If it stays the same price odds are it will remain unchanged.

Silver - same

Platinum - same

Palladium - same



Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:16
WDL U>(@markets) ID#24095:
Feb. gold hit 287..any reason for nice after-hours move?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:13
cherokee__A U>(--@lgb--lost-goose-breath--------sounds-like---locomotive-breath-jethro-tull) ID#344308:
lgb-----

un-mitigated gibberish----

lgb----

what force ( s ) causes elements to bond into molecules forming other
compounds? what does valence mean relative to molecular bonding
WHAT orbits the nucleus and enables ANY bonding to occur?
what is the human body comprised of? how is IT HELD TOGETHER?


you deal with rf? excellent, as do i. you're degreed? excellent,
as i'm not.
school can teach you a lot of wonderful things, such as spelling,
AND WHO TO VOTE FOR.

while you were cutting your first teeth, i was installing 4160v~60hz
600A dc motors offshore. when you first rode your PINK tri-cycle,
i was installing the first electronics to hit the oil industry.
when you were punched-out for the FIRST time for knowing it ALL,
i was installing and programming some of the first industrial robots
ever used. when you were punched out for talking with a lisp, i was
helping design and install the first rf systems ever used over
ordinary phone lines. when you were post-pubertic and liking the
color pink, i was hiring and firing you college educated punks with
their book skills ( EE's ) that did nothing but destroy EVERYTHING they touched
due to having NO common sense. i wish you worked for me, i'd fire your
worth-less hide so you could assist with the venusian probe, year 2050.

the scale preventer ( magnetic ) works and is being installed through-out
hard-water areas. that is a fact. your edjekation has failed you!
why do they use ELECTRICITY to de-fibrillate the human heart? when
some-one is severly shocked, what happens to the nervous system? why?


yes, i finally agree with the general consensus....you are a dummy!
not because you dis-agree with me, because yours ( attitude ) is inherently destructive.

to believe you graduated ( 4yrs or 6? ) with the type of degree you
claim, and to not know more of the way the universe and the world
around you is comprised, is well, quite astonishing.

you are quite wrong in your assertations about mine, and in order
to know as much as you propound to know, i suggest you get the
books out, and spend at least 20 years reading non-stop. start
with just getting along!!!! or-----how to keep feet from mouth.
or---'gee, i just learned something!!'

cherokee!;--get-the-burdeezeos-out----i'm-gonna-clip-that-critter-----


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 19:11
Shek U>(The market) ID#287279:
Puetz,
From Insider Report editor Larry Abraham:
...The greatest buffer to this market is the mutual funds. For years I saw that as a potential problem. Today, mutual funds represent half the total capitalization of the NYSE and probably half of the highly traded stocks on Nasdaq and.. the American Stock Exchange. And what happens when you have that sort of diversification? You have no margin calls.
What triggers collapses in the market is not the first wave of selling. It's the wave of marigin calls. I was making calls all day Tuesday, trying to find out how many margin calls had gone out by the major brokrages houses. Almost none, because individual investors were not that highly leveraged. And the mutual funds...didn't have a penny in margin. That's why the market didn't continue down, and that's why, once there was a turnaround signal with IBM and Boeing, the liquidity was there....
I don't think this market will die with a bang....It will correct.
What are your thoughts?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:58
tricky U>(Prudent Bear Fund) ID#304282:
I puchased the Prudent Bear Fund Yesterday ( sym Bearx ) It is short the market-mainly Techs. It has been getting a lot of attention on the SI threads. Anyne have an opinion?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:57
vronsky U>(THE 'ROSETTA STONE' FOR WORLD MONETARY REFORM) ID#426220:
MONETARY GOLD MISMANAGEMENT IN THE 20th CENTURY by Joseph M. Miller

We are indeed fortunate to have received an insightful and scholarly treatise, whose content and format could well be a doctoral thesis on the financially pertinent subject of the Monetary Mismanagement of the “illustrious” group called Central Bankers. This observer has NO DOUBT the detailed and in-depth analysis will be of utmost keen interest to GOLDBUGS, students of money, politicians, and yes, even Central Bankers!

It documents where we have been, where we are, and most importantly where we will be monetarily at the millennium. It is indeed encyclopedic in its coverage of the subject. Like the historically important ‘Rosetta Stone’ - which was the key to deciphering the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt - this oracle view promises to be the translation ‘blueprint’ for the forth-coming world monetary reform.

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller121497.html


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:51
Isure U>(Gold and Gold Stocks) ID#368248:
Am somewhat new to the KitCo crowd. Although, I have been investing in gold and silver since 1979. I have made a 10-20% profit on average each and every year. The alarming thing to me is the discontent I find on this board among what I assume to be seasoned metal investors. I realize that when Gold broke $400, many of us said, This has to be the bottom!

As we all know, it was not, and I suspect that there are many out there with substantial losses. So, I can see where it might be hard to justify pouring good money after bad. But let me remind you, that as a metals investor you are somewhat of a rare breed to start with. If you felt that $400 represented a buying opportunity then how, now at $283, can you be letting your doubts overcome you? There's been much talk about Central Bank's selling gold. If my math is correct, $300B buys all gold in Central Banks. $1.2T buys all gold on the face of the earth. The time is coming soon when the shorts will reverse themselves, as enevita

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:46
WDL U>(@after hours trading) ID#24095:
Feb. gold approaching 287. Are we going to test today's highs..287.5?
If gold breaks through 287.5; 290. a distinct possibility in near future.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:43
223 U>(Magnet question?) ID#26669:
All the erudite magnet discussion here tonight. Kitco is a veritable magnet for wit and wisdom. But seriously...
Since silver is a better conductor than copper, would a flat wire silver coil core make a more powerful stereo speaker than the usual copper? Or is silver nonmagnetic?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:40
A.Goose U>() ID#20137:
Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:11
Tyler Rose ( A. Goose: Comex Delivery ) ID#373164:

Thanks for the update. We celebrate when you get it first drink is on me.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:37
HighRise U>(PrivateInvestor (Just Called CNBC in hopes of planting a seed )) ID#401460:
I heard you call - you were the guy that made a pass at Sue right - just kidding.

Thanks for calling in you did get a good responce.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:34
ROR U>(Clinton) ID#35767:
The Prez was in rare form today. He wants to help those who have benefited less from the econ a hand up. I as a GB am writing tomorrow.
That guy can talk as long as Castro I thought it would never end.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:34
WDL U>(@after hours S&P) ID#24095:
Crunch: For after hours S&P 500 trading tick-by-tick in realtime try
http://www.quote.com/cgi-bin/jchart-form?genApplet=yes
Punch up SP8H...Good luck!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:32
Isure U>(Gold and Gold Stocks) ID#368248:
Am somewhat new to the KitCo crowd. Although, I have been investing in gold and silver since 1979. I have made a 10-20% profit on average each and every year. The alarming thing to me is the discontent I find on this board among what I assume to be seasoned metal investors. I realize that when Gold broke $400, many of us said, This has to be the bottom!

As we all know, it was not, and I suspect that there are many out there with substantial losses. So, I can see where it might be hard to justify pouring good money after bad. But let me remind you, that as a metals investor you are somewhat of a rare breed to start with. If you felt that $400 represented a buying opportunity then how, now at $283, can you be letting your doubts overcome you? There's been much talk about Central Bank's selling gold. If my math is correct, $300B buys all gold in Central Banks. $1.2T buys all gold on the face of the earth. The time is coming soon when the shorts will reverse themselves, as enevita

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:29
6pak U>(Dis-information @ Mining Industry blames others eh! (like they just discovered the rules)) ID#335190:
December 15, 1997
Mining investors afraid of B.C.; like Ontario and Alberta

MONTREAL ( CP ) - Mining companies say mineral-rich British Columbia has the country's most hostile government policies for mining investment, while Alberta is the most investment-friendly.Ontario, however, is the best place to invest when the companies combine the mineral potential as well as government regulations, say 52 junior and senior mining companies surveyed by the Fraser Institute.

n government policies, Alberta was seen as the easiest to invest in, at 90 per cent. New Brunswick and Nova Scotia were next, while B.C. was last at 11 per cent.

When potential and government policies are combined, Ontario is rated as most attractive, at 53 per cent, followed by Quebec, while British Columbia was second-last, with 6 per cent.

Ed Paszkowski of the Mining Association of Canada, however, said Canadian regulations could be more friendly on the environment front, and the regulatory burden is still fairly significant.

He said companies need more investment protection because it typically takes 12 years to go from prospecting to production.Still, Canada ranks second in the world in exploration investment after Australia, totalling $875 million last year, he said.

The survey also noted that the majority of Canadian mining companies are
increasing the proportion of their investments outside Canada.

Jones said this is partly due to the detrimental impact of domestic government policies. The industry employes close to 90,000 in Canada.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.Mining-Survey.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:25
Spock U>(Theo Waigel and IMF) ID#210114:
One posting suggested that the Germans will not contribute more to the IMF. Has anyone confirmed this yet?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:23
Golden Boy U>(6 pak) ID#430233:
It looks pretty much like a suckers game. Bre-x is swept under the carpet. Rea's knees buckle, and ABX is $24 dollars with an asset value of $8. Go figure!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:23
PrivateInvestor U>(Just Called CNBC in hopes of planting a seed ) ID#225283:

Called the Large cap fund manager from VISTA and asked what he thought of Gold stocks at this time.

He stated that everyone should at least own one in case the market goes south, perhaps the gold stocks would go up

Well at least they thought it was a good question.

I was hoping at least to spark a bit of interest and perhaps plant a seed in viewers minds.

I think I am going to jump in and start buying select gold stocks in a big way in the next few days...I figure it is better to be in early than late.

I suggest everyone here at the site do as much as possible to call in CNBC and stoke up the talk about gold stocks...let's start a grass roots effort here...letters to the ed. staff of local and national papers etc...HEY LETS GET THE WORD OUT EVERYONE...we know the supply and demand facts lets tell the world!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:21
LGB U>(At..... DaveinCO) ID#269409:
OK Dave, biased doctors and scientists who spent 22 years in school know nothing and snake oil salesmen do cause they're not biased. Tell it to me when you need heart surgery and a psychic healer or Voodoo practitioner tells you he can do it for a reduced rate.

You speak as if embracing ignorance is a virtue. And you have a lot of company.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:21
223 U>(LGB: Hi Ho Silver...and away...) ID#26669:
Yup. Silver is stalled IMHO until after the first of the year. I still think that SSC is a long term play, ( which I've been accumulating only when it dips really low ) . From their stockholder notices and reports I gather that while their south american properties are substantial they just won't produce well 'till next year and not at their maximum for another.

BTW, I'm not an astrological investor nor a chartist. I count the number of silver rings on the wooly bear caterpillers in the back yard. ; )

I've just never figured out how to upload one of the darned things. I guess I could stick it to a floppy disc with a magnet? NOT.

But if you want to look at charts, the $US/silver one is interesting for if you set it for November and December. http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/ ( main page )

http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/plot.html ( single plot )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:19
BillD U>(After Hours trading...) ID#258427:
I do not see the big moves in after hours...


GC G8
Feb. Gold
2863
+9
+0.3
2864
2855
23.9K
SI H8
March Silver
6030
+65
+1.1
6030
5990
9.48K

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:18
LGB U>(@ Year2000....OK, but only if you promise not to cause DOW crash!) ID#269409:
If you have the Engineering degree you claim, then you couldn't possible claim Cherokee's post was technically accurate! Magnets on pipes move electrons to prevent scale buildup? You buy into that? You can apply an electromagnetic field to cause electrlytic effect, but this is an entirely different matter from applying some magnets lined up in a row as anyone who has studied this hilarious new myth re magnets already knows.

You also believe the magnets on your fuel line increase combustion by aligning the combustibles at the molecular level? The same company markets BOTH products! ( And even a magnet to improve the quality of your wine, when placed on the side of the bottle! several for medical therapy as we've already discussed, etc )

Talk about gullible, either you learned nothing in school, or you weren't honest about your background, but in either case, Cherokee's post remains unmitigated gibberish, whether it's socially de rigeur for me to say it or not. May I suggest that you too, visit and read the site posted ealier under the VooDoo heading.

As to social events, get a glass of Vino in me, put me in that situation, and all I do is tell jokes and have fun with my fellow beings. I reserve intellectual discussion for forums like this one...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:17
6pak U>(Gold shares @ Vegas & Blackjack) ID#335190:
December 16, 1997

Bre-X saga the tarnish on a lousy year for gold explorers

TORONTO ( CP ) - It's one call to his stockbroker Greg Chorny will never forget.Junior companies are having a dickens of a job raising the capital to carry out their exploration and development work because of the Bre-X mess, Ketchen said. Compared to what it has been in years past, it is 10 times more difficult trying to raise capital today.

Making matters worse is the price of gold, which has taken a beating in recent weeks as European countries debate the merits of using it to support their currencies. Argentina sold off its reserves earlier this month and Switzerland has announced similar plans.

Still, Canada's junior mining sector is still afloat and will survive a difficult 1997, said Vancouver gold analyst Doug Leishmann.

As a result, the junior mining sector isn't likely to be getting any support from investors like Chorny for a while. I certainly won't be going back for a long time, he said. I'd have a much better chance at the blackjack tables in Las Vegas.

http://canoe2.canoe.ca/BizTicker/CANOE-wire.YEAR-Bre-X.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:13
Dave in CO U>(LGB) ID#215211:
Your pointers to biased sources like the JAMA are not valid to me. The medical profession and the drug industry stands to gain by discrediting alternative therapies so I don't believe everything they say.

And a psychologist writing an article called Why Bogus Therapies Seem to Work. Now that's a classic! But I'll admit that psychologists are experts on bogus therapies.

In recent days you have offended the blacks ( e.g., Alan Keyes, Dick Gregory, Ron Brown ) and now Asians ( e.g., acupuncture ) . Don't thank me for the A.H. award that you so obviously deserve. It's surprising that, considering the principle of natural selection, that you're around to accept it.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:11
Tyler Rose U>(A. Goose: Comex Delivery) ID#373164:

I went long December Comex Gold on first notice day- around December 1st. Lind-Waldock assures me that I will be delivered gold, even if it's on the last day Dec gold trades. Deliveries are assigned to the oldest contracts first, so I may be one of the last to be delivered, but I will post when it happens.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:10
LGB U>(@ Allen, and year2000) ID#269409:
Allen, such a drawdown in Gold inventory is interesting, but I'm not sure it's a parrallel situation to Silver. There are no enormous CB holdings in Silver to hang over that markets head, and production of SIlver vs. consumption has a larger gap. CB's could dump into inventories by selling for 20 years without the damned yellow running out! Even if there was ZERO mine production!

year2000... Ishan't respond to you since Y2K will be the cause of my beloved DOW experiencing it's worst crash in history according to folks here!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:10
New Kid on the Block U>(Astrological Investor) ID#389125:
vronsky: Thanks for the URL mate! It's a beautiful day in South
Texas! When will it be a beautiful day in Kitco again? Hangin by
a thread here! Go Team Gold! Go Team Silver! Fight, fight, fight!

Off to the ranch.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:07
6pak U>(Depression/Recession @ Tell these miners the difference (recession = when others are laid off, eh!)) ID#335190:
December 16, 1997
Mine shuts, 250 laid off

BISSETT, Man. ( CP ) - More than 250 miners were abruptly laid off Tuesday after Rea Gold Corp. filed for bankruptcy in the wake of weaker gold prices.

The directors of Rea, and of its subsidiary Bissett Gold Mining Co., resigned late Monday. The last shift at the eastern Manitoba mine ended
Tuesday morning.

The mine, which dates back to 1928, reopened earlier this year with great
fanfare after the company secured a $25-million loan from N.M. Rothschild
and Son Ltd. Bissett poured its first gold in August.

The mine was supposed to produce 80,000 ounces of gold a year and give the tiny town a new lease on life.

Rea announced in a release it was unable to reach a new deal with Rothschild on $23 million it owed.

The price of gold, near $380 US an ounce a year ago, has plummeted. It was at about $283 US Tuesday. The plunged has prompted other Canadian gold companies to close high-cost mines and lay off workers but Rea is the first to fail. Analysts have suggested there will be a wave of bankruptcies if prices fall further.

Earlier this fall, Barrick Gold Corp., Canada's largest gold producer, shut down five high-cost mines in Chile and the U.S. and took a financial hit of $385 million US from the closures.

Royal Oak Mines cut jobs at high-cost mines in Yellowknife and Timmins Ont., in the face of falling gold prices. Rea Gold's other subsidiaries, including one that operates a mine in Uruguay, were not immediately affected by Tuesday's bankruptcy proceedings but the company expects they will be affected.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:06
Allen(USA) U>(LGB - get a sense of proportion! Silver is your love, obviously, but ..) ID#246224:
Silver drawdown 2.7% of stocks ( 620 contracts delivered physical silver at 5000oz per contract ) . Gold 5.5% of stocks ( 368 contracts delivered physical gold at 100oz per contract ) . Gold stocks are depleting at a much fast rate than silver. This will have NO IMPACT ON GOLD PRICE THOUGH, WILL IT! I'm glad silver is up having a good position in the physical. Hoping gold will sit up and bark for me soon. In the mean time silver has been encouraging.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:06
LGB U>(@ Cherokee....New and more efficient Gold production methods) ID#269409:
Speaking of technological breakthroughs, did you hear that Gold production methods will soon become obsolete? Yes it's true, by building on a technique using magnets that Attracts a single electron from molecules to prevent scale build up in pipes ( hehehe ) , ALCHEMY has now FINALLY been perfected using magnets to convert iron into Gold by altering their atomic elemental properties using powerful electromagnets. Gold to drop to .10 cents an ounce once production begins.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 18:04
Year2000 U>(LGB -- I'll bet your social life is loads of fun. ) ID#228100:
After posting to your favorite newsgroups, you probably sit around and read the ingredients listed on cereal boxes to complete an evening of fun-filled entertainment.

Technically, Cherokee’s post was absolutely correct. My formal education and degrees were also in engineering. I moved on to bigger and better things, but I still realize that I’m a “recovering nerd”.

A long time ago I realized that people sound like complete idiots when they try to impress others by babbling with useless technical details, and sound even worse when they constantly criticize others.

Have you considered visiting some of the web sites that could help you develop your personal skills?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:52
Allen(USA) U>(Tyler Rose RE: ANOTHER post) ID#246224:
The interence is that the paper commitments and trading had been saticfactory up till the point when it was no longer tenable that delivery could be taken. UBS ( sp? ) probably was a heavy trader in gold paper and derivatives and lost its shirt, hence the merger. As someone else here has stated mergers don't happen when things are rosy.

As we can see 368 100oz contracts in gold were taken on delivery today. 620 5000oz contracts in silver were taken on delivery as well. That is why we are having the spike up in after hours trading. Apparently we are not the only ones watching those Comex numbers!!!

More to come I'm sure. As the Comex and other markets are drained then the paper that trades on them will evaporate.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:47
Spud Master U>(Tired of LGB predictions ... Spud claims gold to reach -$127/oz in 1998!) ID#273112:
Yes, that's right - I claim that gold will be -$127 ounce in first quarter of 1998, forcing millions of gold-owners world-round to pay $128 an ounce to give gold away...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:44
LGB U>(@ CMH,... that article could apply even to Gold/DOW cycle theories ) ID#269409:
Thank you CMH, in fact the principles of causal relationships and such in that article, apply even to Gold and DOW cycle theories if you adapt the principles of how to interpret such data. This is one of the reasons I have great skepticism for so much of the Tech. analysis I see here on thsi site, when it involves dates, Elliot waves, K waves, dubious connections to societal phenomena, the Moon phases and planets, etc etc

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:42
newtron U>(MEMMO TO BUDDY) ID#335184:
Congradulations on your recess appointment as First Dog ( FDUS ) !!! Remember the most important rule for all oficial First Buddies, watch your back!! Oh yea, remember, don't play dead, or forget to fetch all foreign donations and lick the boot-derrierr ( SP? ) of your benefactors.Most of all if the Boy- Prez keeps telling you that he's behind you, move your rear to a more defensable position!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:42
tolerant1 U>(New Era Paradigm Equal for Everyone. Uh huh.) ID#31868:
Income gap widening across the nation
Copyright © 1997 Nando.net
Copyright © 1997 The Associated Press

WASHINGTON ( December 16, 1997 1:48 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net ) -- The gap between rich and poor has widened in nearly every state since the 1970s, a liberal research group says.

In 44 states, the richest 20 percent of families got richer while the poorest 20 percent got poorer between the late 1970s and the mid-1990s, said the report released Tuesday by the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities.

In four states, both groups gained income but the rich group gained more.

Two states, Alaska and North Dakota, saw income of the poor growing faster than income of the rich.

People have a perception that economic trends affect different regions differently, said Kathy Larin, who co-wrote the report. This just shows how pervasive ( income inequality ) really is.

The report is based on data about families from the Census Bureau, which has also reported about growing income inequality.

Among the findings of Tuesday's report:

• On average, the top 20 percent of families with children saw their income increase by 30 percent, or nearly $27,000, to $117,500 since the late 1970s. By contrast, the bottom 20 percent saw their wages, in inflation-adjusted dollars, decrease by 21 percent, to $9,250. That's a drop of $2,500.

• The income gap grew the most in Connecticut, followed by New York, West Virginia, Arizona, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, Ohio, California and Kansas.

• In 1994-96, New York had the largest difference between incomes of the rich and the poor. The groups' incomes were closest in Utah.

• Looking at changing incomes from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s, the report found the income gap widening in 37 states, home to 86 percent of the nation's population.

In September, the Census Bureau reported that last year, the top 20 percent of American families earned 49 percent of the money, up from 43.8 percent in 1967.

Those in the bottom 20 percent earned just 3.7 percent of the nation's income last year, down from 4 percent in 1967.

The middle 60 percent -- households earning roughly $15,000 to $68,000 a year -- have also lost out during this period. They used to earn 52.3 percent of the money but now take just 47.4 percent.

By LAURA MECKLER, The Associated Press

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:42
BillD U>(@Let's do those numbers again...) ID#258427:
If these numbers are correct:

Silver drawdown...2.5%
Gold drawdown.....5.7% ///much more significant....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:39
CJS1__A U>(The gold shotgun has many triggers) ID#329157:
The gold price has now fallen below production costs for many mines. The US dollar is strengthened by flights to quality from the financial fires in Asia, but flight is fickle, for how long can the mighty dollar stay high in the face of global competitive currency devaluations? Australian dollars are next, I hear.

If this is indeed the time for the great bull market to end, the paper mountains may crumble to the tune of rising gold which strikes the fear of inflation into paper traders' hearts.

Chaos theory suggests that the minutest stimulus can start major changes in train, and the financial systems have much of interest to the chaos theorist. Periods of relative calm, followed by unpredictable rapid change. Noisy signals, i.e. prices. Attractors... support/resistance levels. Even without chaos, for systems at the point of equilibrium, such as a stone thrown up in the air, their movement slows to a stop and exhibits zero rate of change just before the dramatic reversal. It is in the nature of unstable things at the cusp, like a great rock balanced on its tip, that the great movement may be set off in a given direction by a gentle push; the wings of the butterfly or the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

A small uplift in demand for gold may be all that it takes, after the price has been bouncing along the bottom for a number of weeks. Here then, is a possible trigger that connects in its timing with current market conditions:

In the first quarter of 1997, gold demand in Saudi Arabia increased by 44% to a record 68 tonnes. This was to a significant extent encouraged by higher oil prices and a lower gold price. What then, of 1998, with present gold prices and a financial fire storm in Asia! The demand was especially strong during the Eid season at the end of Ramadan, the lunar month of fasting when Muslims must practice self-restraint according to their religion.

Note: The next Ramadan starts on December 31st, 1997!

The Eid season is marked by major festival days: one called Eid-Al-Fitr, the festival of breaking the fast, which is celebrated on the first day after the conclusion of Ramadan ( January 29th in 1998 ) , the second is Eid-Al-Adha, or the festival of sacrifice, which is celebrated on the tenth day of the third lunar month after Ramadan and marks the conclusion of the annual pilgrimage ( Hajj ) to Mecca. ( April 8th in 1998 ) .

This could be seen as a desirable way to break the fasting, for those hungry for gold! But gold trading may not take place during the holiday periods ( the Eid Al-Fitr holiday is a ten day holiday from the end of Ramadan to the start of the tenth month, and the Eid Al-Adha holiday lasts from the fifth to the fifteenth of the twelfth month ) as business activity ceases for approximately one week during these holidays, so keep that in mind for your market timing.

The importance of gold to Muslims can be illustrated by the example of the Zakat wealth tax, which must be paid to poor and needy Muslims by all Muslims who have saved at least the equivalent of 85g of 24 carat Gold. And why would Muslims be especially hungry for gold? The importance of gold as real money will be appreciated by those Muslims who have seen the paper currencies crash and burn in Asia in recent months- there are quite a few Muslims in Asia.

Once the demand for gold picks up, in a market primed for action, the scenario of rapid gold price appreciation may unwind, and surprise! as gold warehouses admit they have not sufficient gold to cover gold that is traded but not physically delivered and it is said, only 1% covered by deliverable gold in the warehouses. Those that have wisdom have already made arrangements for holding that which can not be consumed by the heat of fire.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:38
Golden Boy U>(Rea Gold bankrupcy proceedings) ID#430233:
Is this the tip of the ice berg How many more companies might hit the dust As mentioned on previous posts this is a scary time to be an invsetor in gold mining stocks. Who would have thought Rea would pull the plug so soon. What about those 129m shares out there Whose next?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:38
Prometheus U>(Kate) ID#189273:
Don't sell the house yet, Kate. Don't know where Glenn got his crystal ball, but he sounds like a technician. Not many rich technicians around. Jimmy Rogers claims there are none in his league. These guys read charts like tea leaves and believe that they've read it wrong when it doesn't do what they think it should. Nobody has an infallible crystal ball. That's why there's a market, some of us see buying opportunities when others are screaming to sell. A couple of times in the recent ( last 20 years ) history of gold, since it's been freely trading, it has come down to these levels. Never stayed longer than about a month or two. Don't sell the house yet. Have some nice holidays and wait for a rebound. We won't know where gold is going until it bounces and retests, possibly several times. Technicians will be measuring inverted flag formations and predicting continuation trends. Only the pickup in Oriental buying will tell.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:36
tolerant1 U>(hmmmmmmm, no individual responsibility is the message of the day.) ID#31868:
Credit card industry partly to blame for massive debt, group says
Copyright © 1997 Nando.net
Copyright © 1997 The Associated Press

WASHINGTON ( December 16, 1997 4:48 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net ) -- Aggressive marketing by the credit card industry has left millions of Americans saddled with excessive debt this holiday shopping season, a consumer group asserted Tuesday.

The Consumer Federation of America also singled out banks it believes are irresponsible in extending credit. A banking industry group disputed the conclusions, saying the expansion of credit card marketing has enabled people with lower incomes to get credit.

Millions of households carry far too much high-cost credit card debt, Stephen Brobeck, the Consumer Federation's executive director, told a news conference. He added that banks and consumers must act to resolve the problem and that consumers must exercise more discipline.

An estimated 55 million to 60 million American households with revolving credit card balances had an average of more than $7,000 of credit card debt, costing over $1,000 a year in interest charges and fees, according to the report. It said low-to-middle-income households are especially burdened.

The consumer group said the least responsible banks -- as measured by their charge-off rates for debts considered uncollectible -- are Mellon ( charge-off rate of 9 percent from June 30, 1996, to June 30, 1997 ) , Hurley State ( 9 percent ) , Wells Fargo ( 8.6 percent ) , First Union ( 8.4 percent ) and Advanta ( 8.2 percent ) .

Spokesmen for the five card issuers didn't immediately return telephone calls seeking comment.

The American Bankers Association said in a statement that banks have expanded their credit card marketing to give people at all income levels access to credit. It is important to note that while those credit card customers have a variety of credit histories, more than 96 percent of all accounts are paid on time.

The bankers' group said charge-off rates reflect credit decisions made two to three years ago and that since then, banks have strived to tighten their standards for extending credit.

Addressing the issue of credit card marketing, Visa USA Inc. said, For every 1,000 solicitations mailed, about 20 are responded to by consumers. It is wrong to equate how issuers market credit cards with the actual extension of credit.

The most responsible banks, according to the consumer group, are MBNA ( charge-off rate of 2.1 percent ) , Peoples ( 2.4 percent ) , Travelers ( 2.7 percent ) and First USA ( 2.9 percent ) .

Brobeck had this advice to consumers for the holiday shopping season:

--Carry only one or two major credit cards and limit total credit card debt to 20 percent of your annual income.

--Try to pay off all credit card balances in full every month, or to consistently pay down balances until they are gone. Pay more than the minimum required payment each month.

--If you need help, contact your local consumer credit counseling service. It can be located in the phone book white pages or by calling 1-800-344-7714.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:36
cmh U>(LGB's razor) ID#333232:
worth the read ( snake-eil )
http://www.csicop.org/si/9709/beyer.html

( I know LGB agrees with R. E Heinlein:
A touchstone to determine the actual worth of an intellectual - find out how he feels about astrology.

A counter ( same source ) :
One man’s magic is another man’s engineering. Supernatural is a null word.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:36
BillD U>(@Silver and Gold drawdowns...LGB) ID#258427:
If my math is correct ...the silver drawdown was 2.7%
.........................the gold drawdown was 2.5%

Both significant!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:34
WDL U>(@market update) ID#24095:
Flash update!...Feb. gold up to 286.3...interesting?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:31
WDL U>(@after-hours markets) ID#24095:
Gold and silver spiking up in after-hours trading...March silver up to 6.02...
February gold up to 286.0...any reasons?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:28
LGB U>(@ Realistic) ID#269409:
3 million more ounce in ONE DAY! Can that be true? My Gawd, we're headed for $10 an ounce by 99, Goooooo Silver!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:27
glenn U>(kate & all ...Gold price) ID#376309:
The low is NOT in for gold. January could be another big move down. Perhaps the $255 level will hold and be a great buy, but it could take some time to get back above $325 from there. I read that half the mines would be unprofitable with gold at $325. Well the 200 day moving average of spot Gold is about $328.00 these days so Gold has been at the danger level for some time now. If you or the mining company can survive until 1999 then you will/can make it. If not ...don't expect a miracle any time soon.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:26
LGB U>(@ DaveinCO....Acupuencture, touch healing, TCM, Homeopathy, snakeoil, etc.) ID#269409:
If you will be so kind as to access the site I posted below under Voodoo heading, and read the back issues in the archives, going back 3 years, on such topics as psychic healing, TCM, acupuncture, touch healing, and such, you will have my answer. It's far too complex to go into here in detail.

That site is only a layman's beginning of scratching the surface of course, for real in depth research, the JAMA site and a host of others would be more appropriate.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:24
newtron U>(Karlito-99---XZU-5 BOND's INVINCIBLE?) ID#335184:
WHAT is basis for your statement that FED has not allowed debt to increase relative to GDP growth? Debt of all kinds, particularly margin debt supporting stocks , consumer debt etc, are at outrageous and all time highs! Bonds will tank when the U.S. $ weakens. The $ will weaken when foreign hot money decides to depart our shores A LA Asian Tigers. Stay tuned!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:24
Realistic U>(Comex inventory) ID#410194:
Here is the Comex warehouse stocks data released after today's session:

Gold: Fell 36,856 ounces to 637,879

Silver: Tumbled 3,195,613 ounces to 119,226,336

The inventory drawdown in Silver is stunning indeed and today's drop is
quite spectacular.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:24
BillD U>() ID#258427:
Crunch...globex

http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi




Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:19
Dave in CO U>(LGB@acupuncture) ID#215211:
Do you believe that alternative healing therapies like acupuncture work? If not, why not?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:18
Prometheus U>(Slam 'im when he's down) ID#189273:
That letter to the editor in the Toronto Globe is such drivel it should never have been published in the first place, much less repeated. To deny any producer of a commodity the right to forward sell is absurd; this has been the protection of producers in all commodities throughout capitalist history. Further, all companies show belief in their company by buying back shares when the price is too low. It did a great deal to shore up the rip in investor confidence during the recent October slide on the NY stock markets. Further, it's just good business. Warren Buffett has a short essay on this in the Investor's Anthology, widely available today. Just because the market is low, kill the producer?

Give it a break. Go take a walk and come back when you regain some perspective.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:17
LGB U>(@ Mammoth Lakes eruption in California) ID#269409:
Why are no G&D'rs, discussing the possible looming volcanic eruption in the Mammoth lakes region of Southeastern CA Sierra's and how this could portend the end of the DOW ( and civilization ) as we know it? Surely it ranks almost as high as El Nino on the potential for mishief meter, no?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:15
Crunch U>(@ ALL) ID#344290:
Does anyone have a url for S+P futures after hours? Thanks -

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:13
LGB U>(@ DaveinCO...GoldBug, heal thyself) ID#269409:
Dave, thank you for the AH award. Here's a URL on Placebo effects, one of many good articles available on the net. It's not nearly so simple as a sugar pill study. as you will find if you read it.

http://www.csicop.org/si/9709/beyer.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:06
LGB U>(@ URL for VooDoo believers...and helpful even for Goldbugs) ID#269409:
Here is a URL that is useful for those who may want an alternative view to the commonly held tenets of our day that are spread through the media, the internet, through word of mouth, etc. No I don't absolutely hold to everything published at this site, but at the very least, it's only fair for me ( as an admitted rabble rouser ) to post a source that reflects the kind of thinking that goes into a rational world view, rather than views and beliefs based on popular myth.

Helpful, even when folks are trying to devise their investment strategy's, after all, as RJ so rightly pointed out, being emotionally and irrationally wedded to Gold, at all times, and for all the wrong reasons, can be bad for one's financial health.

http://www.csicop.org/si/

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:05
JOE Smith U>(new silver find looks encouraging for two minnows) ID#25541:
http://www.hotcopper.com.au/hottips1/_disc1/000001c3.htm

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 17:04
farfel U>(Sheller here's the Mission Statement of the New Gold Paradigm...) ID#28585:

I guess you missed it at its first posting so it's back again by popular demand. Study it well for herein lie the Answers to the the Gold Mining Man's dilemma....



To The Editor:

Re: Peter Munk Pans Knee-Reaction to Gold

Re: Munk Pans Knee Jerk Reaction Against Gold.
TORONTO GLOBE & MAIL


Dear Editor:


Mr. Peter Munk of Barrick Gold has some gall to blame World Central Banks for the horror story unfolding in the gold mining industry. In fact, he is one of the leading contributors to the malaise afflicting the precious metal. Barrick's shareholders ought to fire him summarily along with his entire executive board of sycophantic ducks.

Yes, it's true that, owing to forward hedging, he locked in most of Barrick's production at $410 an ounce. Most observers would consider
that a shrewd tactic. However, it is a Pyrrhic victory at best. In
reality, forward sales of gold by self-serving mining companies like
Barrick contributed to the over-supply of gold in the market. When gold
reached $410 an ounce and the world's largest mining company sold
forward such a huge position in gold, is it any wonder that Central
Banks decided they ought to follow a similar course...especially given
gold's stagnant price over the last decade?

Mr. Munk further feigns concern about the possible social disruptions that might unfold in a major gold-producing country such as South Africa. When he dumped Barrick's gold supply upon the market at $410 an ounce, was that an act of social conscience where South Africa is concerned? Hell, no...it was Barrick acting in its own selfish
interest, oblivious to the perceptions and ramifications this huge
forward sale would have on the world gold market.

If gold mining companies really wish to convince Central Banks that gold
stands any chance of future appreciation, then they better skip the hot
air and pursue immediate, tangible strategies in addressing the
over-supply problem.

First, they must immediately cease all forward sales of gold. Secondly,
they must announce to the world that all future exploration of gold is
ending today and they will only work the existing mines. Third, they
must consolidate their industry so that it is similar structurally to
other major oligopolistic/monopolistic commodity suppliers ( such as
OPEC ) . Fourth, they must mount a concerted propaganda campaign to
convince Central Banks and major global financial institutions that gold
truly is a financial reserve and not merely another commodity. In other
words, they must shift their focus from supply to demand. It seems
everytime we open a newspaper or turn on the TV today, we see a constant
assault on the value of gold mounted by disciples of the so-called New
Paradigm. It would make a great deal more sense to forego opening a
single gold mine and use the monies saved to finance pro-gold lobbyists
and media exponents who can reverse the negative psychology that's
developed around the metal.

If the foregoing measures are adopted quickly, then I predict you would see a short squeeze on gold that might send it back into the
stratosphere. In doing so, tens of thousands of hard-working miners
still might have jobs by the time Christmas rolls around.

The most unnerving aspect of the current gold crisis is its potential spillover effects. Weakness in gold is spilling over onto other metals such as platinum and copper. In effect, if counter-measures are not enacted swiftly, we soon might witness numerous mine closures in
virtually every metal industry. Can you just imagine the devastation
this phenomenon would wreak upon the resource-dependent Canadian
economy? Already, various financial analysts are attributing unusual
weakness in the Canadian dollar to currency speculator concerns over
future, pandemic weakness in Canada's resource sector.

In conclusion, I would ask Mr. Munk one final question: if he is truly bullish on gold as he claims, then why the hell is he shifting
significant amounts of assets into Trizec-Hahn, the commercial property
developer? If he truly believes in the gold mining industry, then he
is sending the wrong message by simply buying back his own company's
shares. The only message the buyback sends to the world is that Peter
Munk believes in Peter Munk. Instead, he should acquire and/or merge
with another major gold mining company ( like Battle Mountain, Placer
Dome, TVX, Homestake, Royal Oak, Newmont or Kinross ) . In doing so, he will put the entire gold market on notice that short sellers best beware because mining consolidation is in the works.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:57
LGB U>(@ Cherokee, forgot the SIlver conductivity part) ID#269409:
Oops, I was laughing so hard at your post, I forgot to mention that Silver is the most conductive common metal, precious or otherwise, therefore you should highly prize it above Gold and other PM's for it's elctro magnetic potential!! Hiyo Silver......away....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:56
BillD U>(@XAU5...silver after market) ID#258427:
Do you have a URL for that Please...Thanks...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:54
LGB U>(@ Cherokee...magnets, Silver, conductivity, and you!) ID#269409:
Cherokee, your post on magnetics and human body was hilarious! Where do you get your comedy material? Hate to disillusion you, but the human body does not conduct impulses, nerve or otherwise via electromagnetic energy ( as is so commonly misbelieved by those who know nothing about it ) . Nerve impulses, nueron activity, etc. is all accomplished via complex chemical reactions which may mimic electrical paths, but in reality, have nothing whatsoever to do with electron and magnetic movement, or induction.

As to induction energy and magnetics, you're lecturing the wrong fella. My degree is in Electronic Engineering ( BSEE ) , and my specialty is high frequency RF, the greater portion of which IS induced energy transfer.

Your entire post is absolute gibberish, but it's quite common to believe in the urban myths of our day, so you're not alone. What you and DaveinCO might want to do before believing in Voodoo however, is to obtain and read the JAMA study where REAL magnets, and FALSE magnets ( that looked and felt identical to wearers ) were used in a variety of scientifically controlled experiments which demondtrated no benefit from the magical magnets.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:53
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .242

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:52
Donald__A U>(@Kitco) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 28.16

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:49
A.Goose U>() ID#20137:
Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:43
Tyler Rose

What is the status of your gold delivery?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:48
A.Goose U>(coins sales (some more input)) ID#20137:
Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:40
STUDIO.R ( @ ALL...NOW I KNOW I RIGHT...I'M THE ONLY BUG BUYING. ) ID#93232:

I also was in buying some bullion today. I heard basicly the same information as yourself. Sales very brisk and premiums going up because sales have been strong. Some items getting harder to get.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:43
silver plate U>(Yellow insects) ID#288433:
Thought I would share this little gem that was new to me.

Gold bugs never die they just smell that way

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:43
Tyler Rose U>(Allen, JTF, Another, et al) ID#373164:

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what Another meant when s/he said:

With the oil states going more to physical there is no point in maintaining the paper gold market. UBS was the first to be cut free.

UBS, I suppose, is Union Bank of Switzerland, one of the two swiss banks to recently announce a merger. I could find no announcement about or from UBS with regard to a change in their position with respect to gold buying/lending, leasing. Anyone have any ideas?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:41
xau5 U>(silver) ID#201131:
a 5 cent rise in silver in after market conditions. What gives?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:40
Prometheus U>(Platinum blues) ID#189273:
Platinum had a pretty steep spike down back in March of '85. Sorry, General, not a technician, so don't have THE magic number, but the Average Merchant's price of platinum in New York for March, 1985 was $255.36 and the the April '85 futures hit a low of $236 in that March. It was well below spot gold at that time, which was making it's famous 282 and change low around that same time. That should give you some sort of a baseline.

Platinum has traditionally been dependent on the Japanese trade for actual sales, which are 6/7 absorbed in their jewelry trade. Is this holding true these days? If not, this is probably the source of the current weakness. Looks like a buying opportunity ahead.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:39
RJ U>(..... Gasp .....) ID#411259:

JTF

Regarding thin air:

Ed Viesters is an anomaly, and no, he is no part Sherpa. Ed - from Seattle - is about 5' 11, 160 lbs of zero body fat. Looks more like a runner than a world class mountaineer. He say's a four to six week acclimatization is all he needs to achieve the Everest summit without supplemental Os. After summiting a high altitude peak, Ed would then dash to another 8000 + meter peak and climb it after only a week or two, still acclimatized to thin air.

Seems that 29K feet is a very interesting height. If the mountain were 1000 feet lower, it would have been summited 30 years earlier, 1000 higher, and it would be impossible to climb without supplemental oxygen. 29K feet is that absolute limit of human adaptation, and our planet is exactly that tall. Sometimes, it seems, the Universe presents us with something that is more than coincidence, but less than proof, that there is a grand design and, by necessity, a Grand Designer. Whether you look for the evidence in the stars, at the top of the world, or inside quarks, it seems as if we are all looking, no?


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:30
Kate U>(gold mines) ID#273276:
We live in Northeast Nevada. The mines affecting us and members of our families are Getchell, Echo Bay, and Newmont.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:24
geoffs U>(Kate) ID#424187:
I understand your position .We all hope that Gold will come back for a variety of reasons but when put on as personal level as you have put on it I just don't know the correct answer .Don't give up ,It can;t get much worse .

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:20
Ritz U>(Kate) ID#410387:
Kate where are you from and which mines are doing the shutting down and laying off I too am in mining and know what a mess things like this tend to create.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:17
Kate U>(gold mines) ID#273276:

We're located in Nevada. Mines around Elko, Battle Mtn., and Ely are all being affected.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:14
D.A. U>(the.dark.forces) ID#7568:
RJ:

My condolences on the death of platinum.

My sources have heard a rumor that the Russian's took out a dollar loan against 600,000 ounces of your favorite element as collateral. As luck would have it, the loan is not getting repaid. The creditor may be in the process of 'squaring the books' for the new year. If this is the case then Pl should go down until they are finished, but once finished things should improve. If this story is true then it may signify the end of the Russian platinum stockpile. Knowing that their need for hard currency cash if very high at the moment, it is likely that anything not nailed down is going to get sold. We are always a little early on these plays but we are in the process of calling around trying to find some of our usual fodder, way out of the money long dated calls. Unbelievable as it may seem the volatilities are quite low.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:11
Silver Bull U>($6.00 +) ID#287312:

March silver is $6.02 in after market.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:09
Year2000 U>(Kate) ID#228100:
Good luck to you and your family. We’ve been in similar circumstances, ( although not in the mining industry ) .

From your grammar and the tone in your posting, it is obvious that you are bright enough to survive difficult times.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 16:07
Avalon U>(@ Kate; whose mines ?) ID#254269:
Kate, where are you located and whose mines are being closed ?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:57
RJ U>(..... PL Blues .....) ID#411259:

Platinum dipped 50 cents below gold last December, after months of shadowing gold dollar for dollar. As for how far is down from here, we hit 330 in 1992 and 329 in 1991, we would have to go back to the early 1980's to find a lower price. Looks like 330 is carved in stone, it almost has to go there. For those who envision a whipsaw turnaround and quick run up in gold, imagined that doubled and you will get an idea of how quick and strong the turnaround in platinum will be. I'm not buying any of it now, nor will I buy more on the way down. I would rather buy the breakout and pay higher than to get in the way of whatever dark forces of evil are working their sins upon my beloved white metal.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:55
Kate U>(gold mines) ID#273276:

I would like to hear input on how the gold prices are affecting our mines and vice versa. My husband and one hundred other miners are being layed off this Friday because the drop in gold prices has all but stopped production. Three other mines around us are doing big lay offs and one is shutting down. We now have to decide whether to sell our homes and leave mining behind us, or try to hold on in hopes that things will get better. Not an easy decision.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:54
Crystal Ball U>(Platinum) ID#287367:
If I remember correctly, Platinum got as low as $220-$230 in 1985 ( $50 DISCOUNT to gold )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:54
farfel U>(I Love the Smell of Burning Haggis in the Morning!) ID#28585:
Haggis...you are right, I am not a mining man, as you put it! I have studied economics for 20 years and actively invested in the gold and silver business for some 10 years.

But do not sneer. That is my greatest virtue...I am not beaten down by entrenched habits and practices of an industry. I do not answer to any master other than myself. When someone tells me that this is the way it is and always will be, I respond with the question ,WHY? I can see the entire forest for the trees.

Yes, I am Long John Wayne...and the industry needs a lot more of us or else the Wall Street New Pardigm Disciples will shut down the entire industry. They desperately need new sources of capital to maintain the great raging Bull...and if they have to liquidate entire industries in order to re-divert capital to stock and bonds, they will do so.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:50
Year2000 U>(Clinton's Speech) ID#228100:
Here's an outline of Clinton's speech. His main topic: What a wonderful job he's doing. Also, he named his dog Buddy. Well, at least the dog's name is okay.

http://allpolitics.com/1997/index.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:48
cherokee__A U>(@--------odds-are......) ID#344308:
lgb-----

you are defying physics----

the law of averages decrees that SOMEONE will like you!!!!; )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:48
xau5 U>(What will Japan say tonight. ) ID#201131:
Japan better say the right words tonight or their market will go down again. My guess is they will be very bold. They will start a bank to buy bad loans, sell bonds and print money. Standard stuff. If they dont say this get ready to duck.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:43
The Hatt U>(LBG We have heard it all before) ID#294232:
Your comments about Puetz simply puts you in the same category as I hold
Mr. Puetz and that is simply put, anyone who is a successful trader or
market player does not need to hear himself or in this case see his
predictions in print, he is too busy making MONEY!!!!!!!!!! So LBJ if you
have all the right answers go for it!!!!! By the way have you heard the
latest on S.E. Asia, I didnot think so!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:41
LGB U>(Sillwater Mining down 7%) ID#269409:
Hmm SWC broken below it's 2 year low, not a happy result of Platinum's freefall. May be time to buy....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:41
vertigo U>(Arden or equivilent...) ID#42371:
Arden, or anyone who would know, what will the dec. gold shorts do? Must they buy back or can they roll-over?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:40
cherokee__A U>(@----first-post-got-eaten----) ID#344308:
lgb--

magnets & snake oil?

whoa there nellie!!!

these two definitely do not flock together, as they have
quite different feathers.

magnetics are going to revolutionize ( already started--mri-- )
the health-care industry AND the treatment of most human maladies.

we ( carbon-based-semi-sentient-bi-pedal-critters ) are actually ( no sh!t )
'held together' by electrical charges ( molecules require magnetics )
creating minute electro-magnetic fields. each organ has its' specific
frequency generated by the electro-chemicals that 'power' that 'unit.'
imagine....each organ operating on a slightly different electrical
frequency, powered by consuming organics, which are converted into minute
electrical charges that each cell uses for its' role in a genetic marvel.

for example...

hard water is known to deposit 'scale' upon the pipes used to deliver it to its' destination. the 'scale' remains entrained in the water until it
reaches an area where an opposite and attracting charge ( potential ) has
accumulated. when the 'scale' passes the opposite charge, an electro-magnetic attraction occurs, and the 'scale' bonds to the interface in the form of precipitating molecules.

there is a fairly new product on the market that totally eliminates
this problem using magnetics. a small series of magnets are placed on
the inlet line. the magnets neutralize the 'scales' potential to bond,
either by adding, or taking away an electron, through the passive magnetic action of induction. induction...

put a piece of tin-foil approx 2ft from a fluorescent light and touch
it with your cheek. this is induction. electrical current introduced
with NO physical connections. used everyday all over the world.
generators, transformers, etc...

this same technology can be used to prevent plaque build-up in coronary
arteries, and possibly help eliminate plaque already deposited.

we ARE electro-chemical-critters, bound by the physics of electrical
AND chemical reactions.

magnetics-----the next generation of marvels will BE magnetics!!

cherokee!;--ridin-the-technological-razor-blade-----

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:40
STUDIO.R U>(@ ALL...NOW I KNOW I RIGHT...I'M THE ONLY BUG BUYING.) ID#93232:
Placed a new order for pre-33 Liberties ( 1 oz ) , Philharmonikers and pre-33 Sovereigns this morning. This is the first time for me to buy the British coin. Can't wait to see them...something about King George slaying a dragon....coooool.

Mike Kosares, USA gold, reports that sales of physical so far this week are relatively slow...but last week's sales were extremely heavy. He has been brokering gold in a rather large manner ( IMHO ) for thirty years. According to Mike, there has been no other year this heavy. He sells an average of 3000 oz. each month ( gold ) but lately much more. Glad someone's making a profit on gold....he's a good guy.

Also, he no longer can offer for sale German 20 Marks, I guess they're more or less gone. He also noted that the Sovereigns won't be around much longer without large premiums. Also, interesting that the pre-33 Liberties I bought today were priced @ $460....this is the same price I paid when gold was $310. Demand is there...no question about it.

I have bought at $310, $303, $293 and $295...if anybody cares to know...both corporately and personally. GO GOLDBUGS! I believe.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:39
Allen(USA) U>(FOMC news?) ID#246224:
Anyone know the scoop on FOMC action/inaction? Any statements?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:38
Allen(USA) U>(Ray @ vomit-ville) ID#246224:
Yeah. But what did he say? I notice no spikes in the indices. Maybe a little kicker that faded in Bonds. Is it not interesting that this press conf. was staged at trading day end? Gives markets a chance to *think* about it rather than just react. If he plays down the importance of the meeting then that tells us a lot: the players who met were the biggest in the world, yet 'not real important news, etc .... Yeah, right!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:35
pyramid U>(Egypt as a Gold Market) ID#217268:
This article appears today in CNN ...

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9712/16/RB000253.reut.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:31
Ray U>(Prez speech) ID#411149:
Allen- I have been listening on MUTE and it was all I could do to keep from throwing up!

Tally Ho

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:30
Neophyte U>(Producer Selling? EMU Deadline) ID#390249:
Midas - my take on it is producers are selling for year end. I figure they have to clean up their books and have to increase revenue to cover operating expenses. This should stop on Jan 1.

FWIW, I have read that the final decision on EMU membership will take place at a European summit in May 1998. I would imagine guidelines will have to be met no later than April so that decisions can be made in May.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:27
Dave in CO U>(LGB and your condescending tone) ID#215211:
As wiser people than you have said here, it's not what LGB says but how he says it. Is there any subject you haven't conquered.

The placebo effect you referenced is no doubt real in some cases, but a sugar pill would not improve the medically diagnosed and disabling shoulder and hip problems she has had. Moreover, the physical therapy, the chiropractic treatments, the medical treatments, etc., should have produced a real or placebo effect, but did not.

You really are an A hole.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:27
steady U>(Paper Gain Disappering Act) ID#285233:
Paper Gain Disapperaing Act under way. \LGB-Crash Up Gain Reduction.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:26
Allen(USA) U>(Does anyone have word on the Prez press conference?) ID#246224:
Looks like gold swooned at about 12:30 back down to 2-8-3 area. Silver pretty steady.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:26
JTF U>(Penultimate Gold cartel) ID#57232:
Haggis: You are absolutely right, we do have a gold cartel already! So obvious! And by the same group that handles the diamond cartel! There is one good and one bad aspect of a cartel. And that is -- either you are part of it, or you are not!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:22
JTF U>(Likes Magnets?) ID#57232:
LGB: You must have a magnetic personality! I've worked with the superconducting kind, and the kind that fill up half a football field. The brain has a magnetic field emission that offers more detail about its inner workings than anything except electrodes implanted directly in the brain! Those supercooled Squid detector signals are impressive. Just a thought if you think there is nothing magnetic about humans. By the way there is a group working on thought - driven interfaces. Very simple so far -- but incredible anyway. You should look up audio- or video- evoked responses as a starter.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:18
wert U>(Haggis_A) ID#243250:
Morning Haggis: Did you get the post on Gully's Hotcopper site? That board has lots of discussions on your Ripper silver property. Also, do you have any knowledge on the Mt. Kare prorerty in PNG? It's located next to Placer's Porgera minesite.......Ramgate and Carp. Pac have a minority interest in the property I'm led to beleive that Madison ( the operator ) will be releasing results from a large number of holes sometime this week....regards ( P.S. were you ever in the coal business? )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:18
BillD U>(@Presidential Pooch) ID#261269:
Took a lot of thought ... but the name is ....BUDDY!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:14
vronsky U>(ASIA BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDSPOT (December 15, 1997)) ID#426220:
The ORACLE of the Orient long absent from our website has returned with a vengeance in his scathing rebuttal of Central Bank spewing that “gold is dead,” that “gold is no longer a hedge against economic and currency chaos,” etc. etc. His succinct and extremely well-documented opinion concludes that Central Bank braying is “RUBBISH, RUBBISH AND MORE RUBBISH.”

The ORACLE proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the only defense southeast Asians had... AND WILL HAVE - against the on-going currency chaos, stock market turmoil and the region’s crumbling bank system is to invest in GOLD. The staunchest and most fanatical anti-GOLDBUGS are obliged to concede to the irrefutable evidence that GOLD is the ONLY SAFE HARBOR vis-à-vis the looming and devastating Domino Effect engulfing the area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle121597.html


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 15:02
Producer U>(one more time...) ID#226355:
Old Gold- First it was established yesterday that I am an idiot and that I stink. Now that that is out of the way, CB's would not have to put up or shutup if you form your gold cartel. They would be cheering all the way. Let me get this straight, you are going to threaten someone ( CB'S ) by driving the price of the gold that they own through the roof by producing less? Don't come one step closer or I'll shoot myself. Drive the price up all you want and when the price peaks CB's can sell into the market and you can start threatening again.

In any case the current problem with the price of Gold is not over supply it is a currency ( US$ ) that is perceived to be more valuable than gold. Only when the US equity markets begin to have problems and the dollar retreats to lower levels will we see big moves in the POG.

LGB- What are your predictions? POG,DOW? Other people have tried and failed as you have so gleefully pointed out. Care to go on the record?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:43
Karlito99__A U>(xau5 - Bonds can't tank) ID#78116:
There is just no way that the US bond market will tank in the next year. The inflation numbers remain very tame. CPI is up 1.8 for the year, with the dollar soaring, the cpi can only head lower.

ALso, the supply is shrinking relative to demand. Say what you will about Clinton, he has presided over the largest decline in the budget deficit. The Feds are simply not increasing the supply of debt relative to the growth of the US economy. With a growing number of elderly who want the security and income growth of US guaranteed bonds, demand is getting a boost from demographics.

With inflation at 1.8%, the real long term interest rate is above 4%, which is historically a high rate. Just as I would not bet on a rally in gold, I definitely would not bet on a collapse in the bond market.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:42
RayZer U>(Plat/gold) ID#408147:
I seem to remember a few years ago that Platinum actually got a hair under the price of gold for a moment or two ( futures ) . I remember lots of time when there was less than $20 difference in price...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:41
OLD GOLD U>(Platinum) ID#238295:
General: What ever happened to buy cheap and sell dear. Platinum was EXPENSIVE a few days ago while gold was cheap. Now they are both cheap.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:31
General U>(plat prices a gift) ID#365216:
Platinum prices down $40 in a week. Thank God I decided to wait
on buying those $100 liberties. Is there a 10-20 year low in
platinum ( like the $282 18 year low for gold ) that we should be
looking for? I think I can remember the spread between Plat and AU being
as low as $10. Is this possible again?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:31
Haggis__A U>(Rothchilds..... Gold Cartel) ID#398105:

G'Day,

Almost forgot, for farfel's information..... Rothchilds effectively form a Gold Cartel, mining/banking and all. They do not come any bigger than Rio Tinto and Anglo American - I used to work for them both.

aye, Haggis

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:29
Karlito99__A U>(LGB: Demand for Gold in Asia Has to be DOWN) ID#78116:
With the price of gold soaring in terms of the local currencies, the quantity demanded has to be down. The price elasticity of gold is around 1, so a 30% rise in price will result in a drop in the quantity of gold demand by 30%. The anecdotal stories of Asian buying being passed here as some kind of truth ignore one of the few things that all mainstream economists agree upon: demand curves slope downward.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:26
Haggis__A U>(farfel..... a man from the Wild West) ID#398105:

G'Day from Kalgoorlie,

Is farfel John Wayne or not. He appears to shoot from the hip, with not all his facts lined up in a row. Clearly is a non-mining man.........

Aye, Haggis

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:11
Savage U>(I know, it's off subject, but...) ID#280222:
D.A.: Are you into OJ yet?....Also, a tip from a former Dad, save EVERTHING those little tots give you ( drawings, letters, etc. ) someday those trinkets may be worth more than gold to you.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:04
OLD GOLD U>(Farfel Yes, Producer No) ID#238295:
Producer: Farfel is right on the money in emphasizing the need for drastic changes in the way gold mining companies are run. You are correct in arguing that a producer cartel will never be able to totally control the price as long as the CBs hold big stockpiles. But they can still exert considerable influence if they consolidate and are willing and able to drastically curtail production when the price plunges.

Important to remember the CBs have not sold that much gold. The price has plunged primarily because of huge short selling aided and abetted by cheap CB gold loans.

If the producers formed an effective cartel with short interest at record levels, the CBs would have to put up or shut up. That is they would have to sell heavily to keep the price depressed. Threats of future sales would no longer suffice if the supply-demand gap tripled or quadrupled. They would have to sharply reduce their holdings to keep the yellow at bay-- a major long term plus. But my guess is that our esteemed central bankers would not be anxious to sell their gold at fire sale prices in a world of escalating currency turmoil.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:03
LGB U>(DOW/Nasdaq.....crashin UP again....Nick/Puetz? Eldorado?) ID#269409:
DOW up 1%, Nasdaq up 1.5%. DOW must be incredibly weak since it can't hold above 8000, and has only a puny 70+ point gain today. Very bearish. Obviously a crash imminent before year end. Buy S&P Puts with every available dollar. Assume a drop of 40% or more by 12/31, as predicted by Puetz earlier this year. ( Or was that Oct.27th that begaon the crash? Nick is this a Triple topping pattern? Quadruple topping pattern? Quintuple topping pattern? Sextupel topping pattern? I don't know but it's all very bearish.... )

Eldorado, Sorry in advance for being an A hole, puerile, etc., it just comes over me, I have no control over it, it's a medical condition, and it has to get out somehow or I have these seizures....... Also, the phase of the Moon and the fall of Platinum have affected my balance greatly.


Back to normalcy now ( not that it'll be much of an improvement! )

LGB

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 14:00
gunrunner U>() ID#354133:


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:58
midas U>(NY bulge) ID#345425:
COMEX people are all day traders. That's it.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:54
LGB U>(DAVE in CO, magnets) ID#269409:
The magnets may indeed work to reduce her pain Dave. It's the well known power of the mind and the placebo effect. There's no medical or scientific basis for the magnets to work, but there's an enourmous ampount of evidence that the power of the mind works when it comes to pain management and even healing...if your daughter was completely convinced that a small quartz crytal, properly strapped in place, would work wonders for pain, than it would indeed do the same for her.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:50
LGB U>(Damned Platinum & Gold, dragging Silver down! Asian crises violates Goldbug precepts?) ID#269409:
Silver was holding at or barely above $6.00 and now it's older and more esteemed siblings, Gold & Platinum are dragging it below $6.00 again. Dammit, this momentum effect is pissing me off!

Could it be that events like the Asian crises have exactly the OPPOSITE effect on the metals as so many oracles here postulated? Here we have a drop off of Gold buying in Southeast Asia, a virtual freefall selling panic in Platinum ( due no doubt to worries about auto and industrial catalyst production slowdowns where Platinum is most heavily consumed ) .

So Platinums freefall may push Gold lower, or at least weaken it's potential to rise. I think Silver is the only stellar performer in all this for precisely the reasons many of us bet heavily on it. Dissapearing COMEX inventory. ( Dammit RJ, hope you're wrong about big stockpiles sittin around someplace! And don't you think most of the old silverware got melted down in 1980 or so? )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:50
midas U>(New York gold bulge) ID#345425:
Another day in New York...? Does this rise and fall that is confined to NY mean anything to anyone?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:46
Dave in CO U>(@LGB) ID#215211:
Can't believe you even disagree with my daughter. : )

My daughter, the pro athlete, swears that magnets help her aches and pains better than anything she has tried and that includes the osteopaths, the chiropractors, the physical therapists, and the physicians.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:42
vronsky U>(ASTROLOGICAL INVESTOR - December 15, 1997) ID#426220:
New Kid on the block ( Astrology URL ) -

Coming off the brilliant SILVER CALL recently, Mike Sheller shares another insightful and quite possibly prophetic outlook for the stock market and precious metals. “This will be, if nothing else, a stress test of sorts for the stock market. As he sees it, between his calculations and our Jupiterian observations, stocks don't have a chance.” Full view from observatory at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/astro121397.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:39
vronsky U>(THE 'ROSETTA STONE' FOR WORLD MONETARY REFORM) ID#426220:

MONETARY GOLD MISMANAGEMENT IN THE 20th CENTURY by Joseph M. Miller

We are indeed fortunate to have received an insightful and scholarly treatise, whose content and format could well be a doctoral thesis on the financially pertinent subject of the Monetary Mismanagement of the “illustrious” group called Central Bankers. This observer has NO DOUBT the detailed and in-depth analysis will be of utmost keen interest to GOLDBUGS, students of money, politicians, and yes, even Central Bankers!

It documents where we have been, where we are, and most importantly where we will be monetarily at the millennium. It is indeed encyclopedic in its coverage of the subject. Like the historically important ‘Rosetta Stone’ - which was the key to deciphering the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt - this oracle view promises to be the translation ‘blueprint’ for the forth-coming world monetary reform.

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the
Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller121497.html



Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:33
LGB U>(D.A. I love magnets!) ID#269409:
Hey, didn't want to denigrate the poor magnet, cause it's a wonder of the Industrial age! Without it we wouldn't have electricity, motors, and a few thousand other handy things!

But I think our friends the magnets, would resent being attributed with healing powers...particularly since the fields on these small healing magnets is miniscule in comparison to other magnetic fields we're normally exposed to from external sources daily!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:32
JTF U>(Dropping Gold volume -- gold bullion or gold stocks?) ID#57232:
A. Goose: I do know that at the end of a major market rally, volume increases, as the price rise diminishes --because more selling kicks in, and the buyers fade out. At the beginning of a rally, volume can be low, and price rises can be dramatic -- no sellers, I guess. So it is possible that what you are seeing is that all of a sudden, there are no sellers! There may be other explanations, but I find it interesting that some of the strongest stocks I've ever followed have slow and steady gains like clockwork -- rising on low volume -- perhaps the pros are quietly buying. Other stocks rally in spurts with periods of high volume activity, followed by quiet periods of exhaustion. But - usually the pros trade when the market is quiet. If the pros are pushing gold up, even with quiet trades, that is a good sign indeed!

Perhaps more experienced technical types can reason this better.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:32
Selby U>() ID#287207:
Platinum at 342

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:28
New Kid on the Block U>(Astrology URL) ID#389125:
I know it's been posted before, but could someone repost the URL for
the guru of Gold/Silver Astrologer please.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:27
LGB U>(PLatinum....RJ What's happening to it?) ID#269409:
RJ, you said earlier this morning...The low for the year for platinum is $352, which I think we hit in April. Watched PL bounce off $352 half a dozen times today. If it breaks below here, no telling how low it could go.

Platinum didn't bother bouncing at all, it just plain plunged! Now that no bottom is in sight and no resistance was felt at that $352 level, how low do you think it might go? I'm starting to consider converting some Silver into Platinum as a diversification play.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:27
D.A. U>(lets.not.go.too.far) ID#7568:
LGB:

I have magnets attached all over one of our major appliances. They hold up all manor of artwork from my nieces and nephews. As soon as my son is able to create such works his too will be held in place by magnets. Do not denigrate the lowly magnetic field. It brings much joy to all of our lives.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:20
LGB U>(@ Niner......Predicting Silver prices through Astrology) ID#269409:
Niner your 20:03 yesterday on Astrology was very instructive. I've read this information in other sources as well, ( and in a few articles published over the years in Skeptical Inquirer ) . In addition to Astrology being founded on an complete ignorance of the Solar system and stars, and compounding that error to this day, by not even bothering to revise said ignorance to square with our absolute knowlegde of where the planets and stars are located ( and when ) There are a number of other enormous problems with Astrolgy.

One of the studies I read about, analyzed the predictions and recommendations of a large group of serious Astrologers. There were no consistency at all, in their interpretation of the Planets and stars influence on individuals or events. Not even a statistically signifigant minro correlation. The same has been found by studying groups of individuals with the same sign. NO correlation at all between events in their lives vs. random samples of other folks.

As stated yesterday, Astrology is readily testable scinetifically. It will never pass the rigors of Scientific evaluation. It may be a fun thing, like Japannese comparing each others blood types in pick up bars ( Hey baby, I'm an O! ) , but no rational person who studies it's origins, and how those origins have been carrried forward to this day, or any of the genuine studies done on Astrology, would ever take it seriously.

Of course, many will protest that it works and that's proof enough, but you can prove any concept with anecdotal evidence that something works. No matter how fraudulent. That's why so many snake oil salesman and scam artists are so successful. ( The current rage in attaching helpful magnets to cars, ovens, the human body, etc. comes to mind! )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:15
Allen(USA) U>(Carl) ID#246224:
I'm a sinner saved and sustained by His grace every moment.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:09
D.A. U>(lease.rates) ID#7568:
All:

Another small plus for the gold market is that the least rates jumped 30 basis points today.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 13:01
Selby U>(Very low volume combined with low prices == ) ID#287207:
A. Goose: It means that nobody wants the stuff at the moment--- but when they do look out.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:57
Mike Sheller U>(obproj@i-2000.com) ID#347447:
JTF: Sorry, didn't mean to imply you weren't where you say you are. I know that. Was just pointing you in a potentially helpful direction. My email is above. Try to be gentle with the quantum stuff, huh? gotta run.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:56
Mike Sheller U>(obproj@i-2000.com) ID#347447:
JTF: Sorry, didn't mean to imply you weren't where you say you are. I know that. Was just pointing you in a potentially helpful direction. My email is above. Try to be gentle with the quantum stuff, huh? gotta run.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:54
Carl U>(JTF) ID#333131:
This site isn't the place for it, but if you are interested in discussing some foundational ideas ( not mine ) concerning causation and change in the natural world, I would be happy to correspond by email. My address is:

nljz80a@prodigy.com

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:50
Selby U>() ID#287207:
Goldigger: http://talk.techstocks.com/investor/rolling-2

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:48
A.Goose U>() ID#20137:
Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:39
Savage ( ? ) ID#280222:
http://talk.techstocks.com/investor/goldmine

JTF:

Is it just me or has the volume on gold trades dried up. Even though we have fallen big time, daily volume is very small and the swings are large. Very low volume combined with low prices ==

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:40
JTF U>(China concessions) ID#57232:
A. Goose: I think you are right with your post on China. I do not recall ever hearing a concession coming from them like that short of a major disaster, such as an earthquake or similar. The devaluation of the Yuan may or may not be coming -- but -- the perception of trouble is certainly there!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:39
Savage U>(?) ID#280222:
SELBY: What is URL for SI Golddigger? Thank you.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:27
A.Goose U>(Me thinks that the Problems is getting much more serious.) ID#20137:
KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 16 ( Reuters ) - China said on Tuesday that it would help stabilise Asian financial markets by refusing to devalue its
currency but stopped short of offering emergency aid to the region's economies.

http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/asean_china_1.html

my comments:
It is always interesting when countries make these type of announcements. Seems to me that competive devaluations is already out of hand. When China gives in under that pressure, the game is up. How long will China let the other Asian countries take market share away? Not long I think.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:24
JTF U>(Mike Sheller -- Astronomical post - sorry for the error!) ID#57232:
I meant to say that I have a pretty good idea of why the Moon affects human behaviour, not planets! Yes I'm sure your ephemeris is every bit as good as mine -- probably works to 10,000 BC! Please give me your e-mail site!

By the way, if you think the Silver rally is far from over, this portends well for the gold rally that we Kitcoites are sitting on the edge of our chairs waiting for! A collapse of the Silver rally would have the opposite effect, I'm sure!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:23
xau5 U>(So lets get a KITCO market strategy for the DA fix) ID#201131:
We all agree gold and silver goes up. What about oil? What about bonds? Bonds long term should tank but will they rally on the news the fed is going to ease? The stock market will go up big time initially but would the better play be to own Korea and Thailand as they get the unofficial official bail out. My guess it would be better to own Asia than the US because we are going to tell everybody that we are going to drive our curreny down and we saw how that worked in asia. The fact that gold is trading at am 18 year low gives the Fed plenty of leaway here to just go nuclear as DA said because as gold rallies to this news NO ONE IS GOING TO CARE OR BELIEVE IT. Hell I may not either. The stage is set.At 2:15 today the fed will announce a rate cut or will have a statement that will be in Greenspeak but we all know what it meant. IF by chance that doesnt happen then watch for a leak in the New York times or the Wall Street journal. bye

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 12:14
JTF U>(ANOTHER) ID#57232:
Allen ( USA ) , Carl: Allen you are quite right. ANOTHER does not need to post to us -- we are small fry.

However we could act as a seed of knowledge when the time comes. Hope it comes gracefully, for all of our sakes.

The topics we discuss on this site bother me at times -- especially the financial secrets most of the human world knows nothing about. All these fires that the financial guru's of the world must put out, or risk igniting the world's ( paper ) financial system. ANOTHER is right about one thing -- there will be a big financial ( dollar ) crisis eventually -- maybe not this year though, or even the next.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:46
Eldorado U>(@the scene) ID#173274:
In case nobody has noticed it, gold is testing a support successfully and silver is 'banging its head' on resistance. Look at the gold chart over the last few days and you'll see that gold now has been successful so far in riding, for the most part, the 287 area in the Feb contract over the last day. Very important, though it could again spike to 286.5 briefly and still be good unless it penetrates that area. Mar silver is trying hard to negotiate the 5.98 area and I think if it even pokes its head over it, that the direction is indicated. Failure of it doing so and especially breakage of the 5.82 in the Mar contract would NOT be good! Initial breakage of 5.90 bears watching closely! Personally, I think it is ready to make a 'nice' move up. Feb gold too looks ready for the 390 and + area. Just watch for failures. I'm sure we'll all find out together. A Platinum purchase would be a bigger gamble at this time.

The golden grains should now be ready, or very nearly so, to put in a bit of upside performance. Then we'll see how they behave at retest, if any.

Sorry I haven't been about much recently. Perhaps that'll be rectified a bit over the short term.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:39
Selby U>(Scribes located,) ID#287207:
G S Cole amd Byron can be found on SI Goldigger.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:39
Cyclist U>(Rea gold) ID#339274:
Rea gold filed for bankruptcy

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:36
vronsky U>(GENE INGER NIBBLING ON GOLD? ) ID#426220:
Internationally acclaimed analyst Gene Inger, is beginning to become interested in GOLD’s prospects. “...no doubt the yellow metal is somewhere near at least an interim low point. We view it as a value buy, but not very good as a hedge. As far as gold goes, we prefer stocks to bullion.” His complete intra-week report at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/inger121197.html


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:35
JTF U>(I like your emulation of GSC!) ID#57232:
D.A. -- I miss him too! Especially since we are so near a turning point. My computer is acting up so I have not been able to review posts. My impression is that AG will certainly not lower rates, but he will not raise them. He is much too involved in the SE Asia problems, and does not want more competitivie devaluations. He will ignore the pleas of the OECD. I doubt Clinton will say anything about SE Asia -- like bailouts, etc. unless he has tested the political waters first. Have't heard anything on these lines yet. Also, I would guess that AG has everything set up already to bail out SK, or already has done so. He just has to wait for the instant the SK's hit bottom, so that the bailout funds don't go down a bottomless pit!

My biggest fear is that the US markets twitch, and someone sells gold to prevent the flight to safety, or some key central bank needs help - leading to more gold loans or sales. AG will consider the survival of the world's currencies much more important than the stock market, or the gold producers.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:30
TPher U>(Spike up in the February Gold Contract) ID#372235:

Anyone check out Quote.com this morning?

Gold spiked up to 297.5 at 10:19 this morning.

It's showing up on all the charts ( even the daily ) .

Any care to comment?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:28
Frustrated U>(Dwayne__A - Spot Gold Price) ID#298259:
Bloomberg market updates ( evey 20 minutes ) always quote spot gold, not futures. Bloomberg commodities update always quotes futures. Interestingly, Bloomberg's closing price is always within about $0.10 of the closing price given by Yahoo's commodity update. Right now I'm inclined to think Bloomberg's is more accurate. But just a guess on my part.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:21
Carl U>(Allen(USA)) ID#333131:
You are salt of the earth. I salute you.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:21
JTF U>(Astronomical Links to natural phenomena on earth) ID#57232:
Mike Sheller: Your 8:34 post. I think you misunderstand me! I am convinced that there are extraterrestrial phenomena that govern our lives to some degree. I have identified a link between certain planets, solar tides, sunspots, and earth weather ( including ElNinos ) , though on the latter I have no event causative link, just amplitude and intensity links. I even have a pretty good theory on why the Moon affects the planets, though I need to dig up some key references. You see -- you do not need to convince me on these matters.

What I need from you is a source that demystifies astrology, as it is clear that you, after years of study in this murky field have come up with a relation between cause and effect. You see, you must have made what I would call measurements, or assembled data, or you could not use ( your version of ) Astrology at all!

I apologize if I sounded like I do not believe in Astrology, and hence am missing something. What I believe in is analysis of models of reality -- one does not create a model of reality and stick with it -- one keeps changing the model to make if fit better. You have a model of reality -- but somehow you an I are not able to relate what you and I have -- yet. But I know it will come -- and we will both benefit. Why don't you post your e-mail site -- I would be glad to tell you what I have learned from the Crook stuff too -- very interesting -- I wonder what is not quantized ( cyclic ) .

I am wondering if cycles in time are actually reality folding back on itself! Is that metaphysical enough for you?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:21
D.A. U>(in.honor.of.GSC.wherever.he.may.be) ID#7568:
All:

The pattern is starting to get repeated. Gold stocks out performing bullion. This is good.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:15
Avalon U>(@ Panda) ID#254269:

Thanks for pasting instructions in your 19.33 yesterday. My computer
is at the office, so I was not able to thank you last night.
I am a computer newbie so right now, your instructions look awful
complicated to me.I will try it sometime shortly and just hope that I don't
destroy all the computers in the free world in my attempt.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:13
Cyclist U>(breakout) ID#339274:
FWIW BGO gave a big buy signal stops at 1 15/16 target 3.50 /4.00

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:12
Dwayne__A U>(Frustrated) ID#270230:
I also notice the inconsistance quotes elsewhere, my logic is Kitco puts the date & time beside it therefore its atleast believable to me. With other quotes you don't know what you are getting Futures or Spot !

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:11
A.Goose U>(posted earily by Donald_A; This tells the tale. I think I will buy some bullion today!) ID#20137:
Thailand worried by heavy gold movement abroad

BANGKOK, Dec 16 ( Reuters ) - Thailand is concerned about the amount of gold being taken out of the country by a few newly-formed
companies for sale in Singapore in recent months, a deputy finance minister said on Tuesday.

``One company alone has exported about one tonne of gold last month,'' the minister, Pichet Phanwichartkul, told reporters. He said companies
had used loopholes in the law to move large quantities of gold abroad.

The finance ministry planned to take measures to plug the loopholes and curb the practise, he said.

The companies were established specifically for the purpose of exporting the gold using legal means and they did not repatriate the funds from the
gold sales to Thailand, he said.

``These people take advantage of loopholes in the law and make profits by taking the national resource out of the country,'' Pichet said.

He declined to give any further details.

Industry sources said they were aware of the gold sales. Such sales in Singapore by the Thai firms could be aimed at raising other stronger
foreign currencies than the slumping Thai baht, which tumbled to a record low of 49.35 against the dollar on Tuesday, they said.

``Even though the gold prices abroad are weak now, Thai speculators can make profits from the foreign currencies,'' one industry source said.

Thailand is facing its worst economic crisis in decades and its businesses have been hit hard by turmoil in the ailing finance, property and currency
sectors.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:02
Allen(USA) U>(ANOTHER(THOUGHTS!)) ID#246224:
Thank you for your post. I have been thinking about your words and find them understandable. Is it possible for you to speak of your reason for sharing your insights with us? This small group hardly is worth your attention. This would help us to understand your intentions better. Thank you.

A man plans his path, but God places his foot steps.

There are many in this world who have made a plan which God has not allowed to happen. Many who have had no plan, yet were brought to a place in HIS plans. King David was one such. Babylon was another such.

He dwells above the heavens in un-imagined glory, and with the lowly and contrite of heart.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see GOD.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:01
Silver Bull U>(COMEX) ID#287312:

Delivery notices today:

Gold 332 total 6,504

Silver 62 total 8,857

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:01
GVC U>(London News Story-Reuters) ID#249453:
LONDON, Dec 16 ( Reuters ) - Gold firmed within its low-level range on Tuesday as market pressure on platinum spilled on to fellow metal palladium when the U.S. traders began their day.

Platinum hit fresh lows with an afternoon fix of $342.50 an ounce, the low since March 8, 1993, after a morning fix $3.00 above that. Spot metal was last at $341.00/$343.00, down $12.50 since London's Monday close.

Plentiful bears got hold of palladium too once New York opened, knocking $7.00 off the metal to take it towards $182.00/$184.00 an ounce as London trade approached the close.

Palladium's losses are still fairly modest in comparison with platinum. It's just spill over selling, one dealer said.

Gold fixed at $285.50 an ounce on Tuesday afternoon, up on the morning's $283.25 but still near 18-year lows at $283.00.

I am not expecting anything much to happen in the next 72 hours, said one London gold trader.

Between $282 and $287 is probably the range I would guess until December 31, he said.

We will have a fresh look at it next year. Daily moves of $1.50, $2.00 or even $3.00 could be possible up until then but it's at these levels it seems to be happy with for the moment.

Silver had an up-and-down day which left it pretty much as it began by the time London approached its close, its 16-cent range showing continued speculative interest in the markets' precious metal of the moment.

Silver was last at $5.95/$5.97, two cents up on its London close on Monday.

Weakness in platinum and palladium was seen coming from the combined forces of feared demand slumps in Asia and Russian selling, dealers said.

Platinum's weakness on Tuesday compared with heights recorded only last June when Russian supply worries paralysed the lease market and spiked the price to more than $500 an ounce.

Subsequent falls have come steadily since mid-October, with a near $40 fall in the last week.

Platinum is used mainly to make jewellery and autocatalysts, which remove noxious gases from car exhausts. It is also used in a variety of chemical, electrical and glass-making processes.

I think we are getting near the bottom now. At $335 it should flatten out. Having said that, I thought the same thing $20 ago, one dealer said.

There's been some fairly aggressive selling over the last 48 hours, he added.

10:58 12-16-97

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 11:00
Avalon U>(@ Tortfeasor) ID#254269:

Loved the joke and I understand how it may relate to the markets.I guess everthing's okay if the USD is okay, right ?I

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:58
Reify U>(Sorry) ID#413109:
Email Reify@sitcom.co.il

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:57
Reify U>(Gold price) ID#413109:
Glenn or anyone- Noticed on quote come, fast quote and DBC commodities that there was a tremendous jump to 297.5 and then returned to the normal range where gold was trading. What causes this and is it true or a glitch?
Would appreciate the reply emailed as I don't have time to access our group for more than a short while, and may not find the answer. Thks

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:57
John Disney__A U>(There will always be an England) ID#24140:
To All

If you want to make yourselves feel better much

better then look at a chart of gold in stirling !

Look like the downtrend channel has just been

penetrated to the up side and a bottom has been formed

and tested.

Gold in stirling is not stupid. Mainland european

currencies are all suspect because of the Euro

uncertainty. That leaves stirling or swiss as the

strong european currency. UK gilt rates are high

plus the swiss are in heavy flak over nazi gold

and the attendant propaganda.

So stirling should be the strong currency and the

best way to look at gold ( other than in $ ) - IMHO.

Try it, you'll like it.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:55
tolerant1 U>(Blonde) ID#31868:
I am not familiar with Hoye's work. Perhaps Aurator or vronsky may know of the works you speak about.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:52
Y2KBug__A U>(@ Mike Sheller ) ID#234311:
Let now the astrologers,

Those who prophesy by the stars,

Those who predict by the new moons,

Stand up and save you from what will come upon you.

Behold, they have become like stubble,

Fire burns them,

They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame

Isaiah 47:12-13

Just one prophet's opinion, but if the Creator of the stars says the stars are not an accurate guide, who am I to argue?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:51
Frustrated U>(Spot Gold - Which price is right?) ID#298259:
Can anyone tell me why there is such a big difference between the spot gold price quoted on Bloomberg vs the spot gold price reported by Kitco?
For instance, Bloomberg is using yesterday's closing price of $283.80 and Kitco shows $284.70.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:50
D.A. U>(the.deal) ID#7568:
xau5: Amen.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:50
NJ U>(Controlled Media) ID#352177:
themissinglink : Nothing new in that. John Swinton said it all, way back in 1953.

There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print.

I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.

The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?

We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men.

We are intellectual prostitutes.

John Swinton
Chief of Staff, New York Times
( considered the Dean of his Profession by his peers )
When asked to give a toast at the New York Press Club in 1953

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:50
vronsky U>(THE 'ROSETTA STONE' FOR WORLD MONETARY REFORM) ID#426220:

MONETARY GOLD MISMANAGEMENT IN THE 20th CENTURY by Joseph M. Miller

We are indeed fortunate to have received a insightful and scholarly treatise, whose content and format could well be a doctoral thesis on the financially pertinent subject of the Monetary Mismanagement of the “illustrious” group called Central Bankers. This observer has NO DOUBT the detailed and in-depth analysis will be of utmost keen interest to GOLDBUGS, students of money, politicians, and yes, even Central Bankers!

It documents where we have been, where we are, and most importantly where we will be monetarily at the millennium. It is indeed encyclopedic in its coverage of the subject. Like the historically important ‘Rosetta Stone’ - which was the key to deciphering the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt - this oracle view promises to be the translation ‘blueprint’ for the forth-coming world monetary reform.

About the Author: In 1965 Joseph Miller became a member of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He was active in the exchange during the time Currency Futures and Interest Rate Futures were introduced by the Exchange, and served on the Board of Governors of the Exchange for ten years.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller121497.html


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:49
Allen(USA) U>(Au/Ag action in New York this AM) ID#246224:
These markets are small enough and thin enough that if one group of players feels strongly about buying ( or selling ) the market has no resistance to their actions. Here, I think, we are seeing a group buying which expects bad news @ 14:00. When 14:05 rolls around would be the time to see if others agree with their assessment. Also look forward to seeing how the PREM does JUST BEFORE the press conference. The no-brainer would be that we will have a sharp up turn on the hour of 14:00.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:49
tolerant1 U>(D.A.) ID#31868:
The truly sad thing is that everything is based on entertainment value. I have alluded to this in previous posts and ramblings. The Korea media event. My goodness I pity those poor people. A cast of thousands and not one individual speaking a damn word worth their weight in horse pucky.

Printin Clinton is a very dangerous man indeed. Soon to leader of the newly impoverished world. I pity that poor dog in the Whitehouse because I have seen the evil disease that travels with Camdesuss and his laying dog ways.

If Camdesuss thinks he is going to get out of paying me in gold and silver for infecting my dog he will be as sorely mistaken as is my dog. I would like to thank everyone for the gifts of milkbones and I am glad to say that my dog seems to feel better, but that horrible rash remains.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:45
Blonde U>(History) ID#263278:
There was an interesting article in this weekend's Financial Post that I have not been able to find on the Net so will summarize here. It is by Richard Hoye, who publishes Quantum Research, directed to institutions. He identifies 3 bubbles' in financial assets: 1873, 1929 and today. He notes that real interest rates declined ( and yield curve flattened ) significantly during the boom, then rose dramatically ( ca 12 points ) at the end. Inflation in financial assets is preceded by, not accompanied by, inflation in tangible assets. The end stage is hard deflation of both. Gold is behaving in a predictable way, based on Hoye's reading of history.

He predicts a rally in 1998 in the context of a developing global bear market. Growth rates for business will decline, leading ultimately to reduced liquidity,and then recession. The cardinal characteristic of governments, business and individuals will be decreasing ability to service debt. As alert investors take shelter in the short end of the yield curve, long rates soar. His research shows a 25% increase in the price of gold over the 2 years subsequent to a crash.

It's important to note that his conclusions are based on only 2 previous examples of financial asset bubbles. The similarities are remarkable, however. He notes that in each case, central bankers or their equivalents were lauded as geniuses in the period preceding the crash. He also says that each bubble is truly a new era in that the usual pattern is not followed. One example is the failure of tangibles to increase at the end of the cycle. ( One reason to be cautious about the Cdn.$ here ) .

Does anyone know Hoye's work?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:45
Year2000 U>(MORE: What President Clinton will not say today ..) ID#228100:
That Janet Reno is a real babe...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:40
xau5 U>(DA lets assume you are right) ID#201131:
If you are correct in your assumption that a deal has been struck between the US,Germany and Japan then obviously somebody knows what the deal is. The clues to the deal would be the trading that has occured on Monday and today. Gold is up, foreign currencies are not plunging anymore and the US stock market is up 180 points. It would seem that type of action does not indicate a fed about to raise rates. Who ever knows the outcome of this deal will definetly trade on it before you or I hear about it so it would appear a rate cut could happen today. IN my opinion the only logical outcome of the Asian flu is for the US dollar
to go down big to bail out everyone pegged to our currency. bye

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:36
Allen(USA) U>(What President Clinton WIL NOT SAY at 14:00 today ..) ID#246224:
1 ) We are in the beginning of a world-wide financial crisis which will be as bad or worse than the great depression.

2 ) Protect your capital at all costs. Even government debt is a questionable investment. The only security will be found in gold.

3 ) There is no solution except to allow this firestorm of debt elimination run its course around the world. The USA will also burn in this fire. Bankrupcy will be the norm over the next few years.

4 ) We need to turn from our foolish efforts to be financial gods. This can only be accomplished by returning to a *standard* which can not be moved: a new gold standard.

5 ) Urge the dedication of a day for international prayer and fasting to seek God's mercy upon us all in this time of crisis.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:29
D.A. U>(the.speech) ID#7568:
Tolerant1:

My fellow Americans, I come before you today to speak of a problem which threatens our economic well being and the well being of our friends and neighbors across the ocean.... fill in lots of stuff about how the world is a small place, and we are all in this together, and how at times like this we can not crawl into a shell, holiday season is a time for giving, small joke about new dog, blah, blah, blah.... Now the juicy part: I am issuing an executive order to make available $50 billion from the exchange stabilization fund to the IMF which will be used to secure the debts of ( long list of defunct countries ) ...... in addition the Europeans and the Japanese will supply an addition $50 billion.... Then the obligatory stuff about how the money is not really at risk, and how its just like Mexico and Mexico paid us back with interest, blah, blah, blah.

Stock market soars on the news, bonds not so happy, gold and silver head for the high country. D.A. wins a wink!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:27
themissinglink__A U>(Kicking gold while it is down.) ID#373403:
Isn't it interesting that the mainstream media is increasingly becoming the puppet of the current administration? While we rattle our sabre with Iraq, the media runs specials on biological weapons of mass destruction. Where were they for the past eight years advising us on the current peril?

Now gold is down and the Fed and other Central Bankers are doing their best to keep it there. Presto! Media in markets big and small run large splashy articles on gold being a bad investment. Well gee professor, what tipped you off, the precipitous drop over the past year? Kind of like running the weather as the headline on a rainy day.

Obviously, forces are at work behind the scenes. Not even an evil conspiracy, most top level government functions are taken care of behind closed doors. Someone knows something and it must be big to get so many Central Banks to act in concert selling national assets at the bottom of the market ( or creating the bottom ) . Probably they know the depths of the coming depression as they see the stilts weakening and are taking any and all actions to soften it.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:24
John Disney__A U>(What can I say after Ive said Im sorry ) ID#24140:
To all platinum fans

Woops - there goes one support - yen support should cut in at

45,000 yen - Lets hope it does better than 352$ did.

And remember - DO the OPPOSITE !!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:19
Steve - Perth U>(Steve’s specially edited: NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA ) ID#284177:
HOT NEWS UPDATE: Wife Rowena would like to thank you all for the kind comments & words of encouragement for our new son Nathan. She was quite overcome by them all after reading them in hospital. Thanks again. She should be home in a day or so. Baby is cute. Feeding well now.

BREAKING STORIES:

The penny starts to drop in the US
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971216/feature/feature1.html

Anxious IMF seeks more cash
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971217/world/world1.html

Pentagon to give all troops anthrax vaccine
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971217/world/world3.html

Grave fears as friendless $A plummets
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971217/market/markets2.html

Won nation: a currency float to the rescue
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971217/world/world1.html

IN REVIEW

Indonesia worse than Thailand
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971215/world/world3.html

Bargain-hunters take chance on miners
http://www.brw.com.au/brw08.htm

NZ voters are wary of M.A.I. free-trade treaty
http://www.brw.com.au/brw15.htm

Red alert for Korea's banks - Korea is in DEEP TROUBLE NOW!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/world/world1.html

ALSO - The latest from the Intelligence Digest:
US prepares for mass casualties in Korean war
The US has asked Japan to draw up contingency plans for receiving
120,000 casualties in the event of a new Korean war.

MIM ( Mt Isa Mines ) crashes to 18-year low as investors bail out
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/invest/invest1.html

Insurers refusing to cover Year 2000 Millenium Bug problems
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/invest/invest5.html

US locomotive on track for a long uphill ride - The Maverick
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/market/markets4.html

Too many eggs in an Asian basket case
No more Letters of Credit for Korean Manufacturers!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971213/market/markets5.html

ASIAN BACKWASH HITS RUSSIA
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/50/b3557102.htm

ASIA'S NEXT CASUALTY? Bad banks could clobber China
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/50/b3557097.htm

Whistling past the graveyard in Asia
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/50/b3557052.htm

DEAR IMF: DON'T MAKE ASIA'S FLU WORSE
http://www.businessweek.com/1997/50/b3557152.htm
Rupiah now down 100% for the year
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971210/world/world1.html

Billion-dollar buyouts lead attack on bankruptcy
Korean Shipbuilding Group had 20 times debt to equity!
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971209/world/world1.html


BOOKMARK Steve’s News Page:
( Courtesy of Colin Seymour )
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~netking/blizard.htm

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:13
vronsky U>(CLASSIC DOWNSIDE BREAK-AWAY GAPS IN LAST FOUR DAYS - Microsoft) ID#427357:
RCA ( 1925-1929 ) and MICROSOFT ( 1993-1997 )

This is text-book perfect! Go to the following chart of Microsoft. See how the price plummeted down through its 50 day Moving Average WITH TWO GAP MOVES. This is an ominous sign if LONG, and a sight for sore eyes SHORT... despite the fact MSFT is up two points as I speak: http://cbs.marketwatch.com/data/squote.htx?source=htx%2Fhttp2_mw&tables=table&TICKER=msft&tables=chart_table&format=fractions

Neither Ever Paid A Cash Dividend...

Deja Vu All Over Again?! From 1929 to 1932 RCA lost 97% of its market value. Recall RCA was the #1 High-Flying Tech stock of the 1920s. There is an eerie and uncanny historical resemblance here...
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/rca_msft.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:07
HighRise U>(JAY LENO on CLINTON) ID#401460:
The difference between Clinton and his Dog.
The Dog only chases his own tail.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:06
Mike U>(New York Gold) ID#349354:
Anyone have a clue why New York ( for the last two days is sharply up in the am and London and Sydney are flat?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:04
Year2000 U>(Isn't Technology Wonderful?) ID#228100:
Here’s another analogy between now and the 1920’s.

Technology innovations in the 1920’s increased the public’s interest in the stock market. With a radio and a telephone, even small investors could gather investment data, phone their brokers, and have trades executed on the SAME DAY! ( Instant gratification! ) These two tools were critical components of the meteoric rise in the stock market. Previously, if you wanted to purchase securities, you would handle these transactions by mail, and wait, and wait.

In the 1990’s, we have the Internet and the Personal Computer. Although the technology is different, these tools are having exactly the same type of psychological impacts on investors. Let’s hope that we have different results!


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 10:01
BillD U>(Klingkdon news conference ...bahhhh) ID#258427:
I believe that THE IMPORTANT MEETING this week is the one between Rubin, Greenspan, that dude from Germany and the IMF dude ...This meeting could have the greatest impact on PM's ... I look for something dramatic.
all in IMHO...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:58
tolerant1 U>(D.A.) ID#31868:
The more I think about it I do not believe it will have major ramifications in that I mean he will not say anything that will dampen Holiday spirits. From a political standpoint he wants to be the one, the saviour, the good guy when whatever hits the fan.

He may announce the dogs name. Talk about his installing this fellow as an acting whatever it is he is acting as. He may bring the Iraq bs more into play. Mom, dad, low-fat apple pie the usual lemming fare.




Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:52
arden U>(quest for the truth) ID#201238:

JTF - please send me an email so I can give you some info on your quest for the truth in science vs. astrology ardengold@msn.com

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:48
D.A. U>(another.job) ID#7568:
Tolerant1:

Maybe he's going to announce his candidacy for the presidency of Korea. Either that, or Al and Ron may have just bought the place.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:47
Carl U>(Donald) ID#333131:
It's understandable that Governments and FRB's and other economic planner types come to think that because they can interfere with economic man, they can stimulate him. It's like learning to drive in a car with a constantly racing engine. You come to think you can drive it with the brakes. If the engine stops, you can't understand why letting up on the break will not make it move. Growth is dependent on individuals making millions of risky decisions in confidence and hope. Central planners can't provide that. They can just GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:43
Savage U>(thank you) ID#280222:
CYCLIST: You've been doing pretty good. I appreciate your posts!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:37
xau5 U>(gold today) ID#201131:
gold rallies on a bearish cpi number for gold. this is good. i am worried about the platinum break though. looks like forced liquidation to cover a margin call not necessarily caused by owning platinum.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:35
G-Bug U>(Clinton) ID#432107:
Mr. Clinton will announce the name of his new dog.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:33
Donald__A U>(@DA) ID#26793:
A rate cut today would equal dollar devaluation. Just what Detroit needs to stay in business. And everyone else. Good for a few points on the Dow too. And gold.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:31
tolerant1 U>(December 12, Privateer Update) ID#31868:
Mr. Clinton himself has announced a press conference for December 16 - just him and the press - no other spokesman or other flunkies - with the subject not announced, as yet.

Mr. Clinton is scheduled to speak at 2:00 p.m. this afternoon.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:27
Ted U>(Heading for the casinO) ID#364147:
Time fer the weekly grocery shoppin trip and stopover @ the casinO...Keep the faith G'bugs!! later dudes~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:26
Donald__A U>(@Carl) ID#26793:
That was a little gem buried in there wasn't it. It is exactly what happened here in the 30's. They printed like crazy and the money all piled up in the banks until, at the start of WWII, the deposit to loan ratio was something like 80% cash, 20% loans. Banks were terrified to lend in that environment and the few creditworthy borrowers who were still in business were terrified to borrow. The newly printed money stayed in the banks and the Depression continued. That seems to be what is happening in Japan now.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:15
D.A. U>(stealth.inflation) ID#7568:
Pdeep:

If the Fed were not able to participate in the long end of the yield curve I agree that rates could rise. However, they appear ready, willing and able to buy bonds with electrons. As long as they can continue the CPI charade this game will play. At some point, when even the man on the street can figure out what is going on, the game will end. Given the man on the street's ability to discern what is happening, these manuevers will buy lots and lots of time. Go Gold. Go Silver.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:14
STUDIO.R U>(@ALL...this morning, a song....) ID#93232:
COWBOYMAN
written by Ronald David James
copyright 1997

HE USED TO RIDE THRU TOWN
BACKIN' HELL DOWN
BUT THOSE DAYS ARE GONE...
AND THINGS AIN'T THE SAME

HE WAS RIGHT AGAINST WRONG
AND HIS BACK WAS STRONG
THEY SAY THERE AIN'T MUCH LEFT
'CEPT THE NAME

They all yell...
HEY! COWBOYMAN
WONDER IF YOU CAN?
HEY! COWBOYMAN
YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.

WHEN HE HUNG UP HIS GUN
THE PEACE CAME UNDONE
WHAT WAS THEN
SEEMS FOREVER LOST.

THEY SAY HIS WORKS BACK THEN
THEY DON'T APPLY AGAIN
NO ONE'S WILLIN'
TO TAKE UP HIS CAUSE.

They all say...
HEY! COWBOYMAN
WONDER IF YOU CAN
HEY! COWBOYMAN
HELL, YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.

NOW, WHEN HE'S TIRED OF ALONE
HE MAY REACH FOR HIS...SONG
AND SING WITH THOSE EYES
THAT DON'T BLINK

FIRE WILL FLY FROM HIS TONGUE
INTO HEARTS OLD AND YOUNG
BURNIN' HOLES IN THE WAY
THEY ALL THINK.

Now they pray...

Hey, COWBOYMAN
WON'T YOU CLAIM THIS LAND?
PLEASE, COWBOYMAN
WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND.

the end.


Must now go to the office to do my share.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:08
pdeep U>(Injection of Liquidity and Rates) ID#174103:
If the Fed be stoopid enough to lower rates and continue the current pace of debt monetization, the CB's will only succeed in turning the current Asian debacle from deflation to hyperinflation. There's no way that long rates would not rise in that scenario.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:06
vronsky U>(THE 'ROSETTA STONE' FOR WORLD MONETARY REFORM) ID#426220:
MONETARY GOLD MISMANAGEMENT IN THE 20th CENTURY by Joseph M. Miller

We are indeed fortunate to have received an insightful and scholarly treatise, whose content and format could well be a doctoral thesis on the financially pertinent subject of the Monetary Mismanagement of the “illustrious” group called Central Bankers. This observer has NO DOUBT the detailed and in-depth analysis will be of utmost keen interest to GOLDBUGS, students of money, politicians, and yes, even Central Bankers!

It documents where we have been, where we are, and most importantly where we will be monetarily at the millennium. It is indeed encyclopedic in its coverage of the subject. Like the historically important ‘Rosetta Stone’ - which was the key to deciphering the hieroglyphics of ancient Egypt - this monumental work promises to be the translation of the forth-coming world monetary reform.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/jmiller121497.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 09:00
PrivateInvestor U>(Have been in bonds for over thirty days) ID#225283:

GO bond market. Love it.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:57
pdeep U>(US Dollar Perceptions) ID#174103:
Before PM metals really start to move, I think we're going to have to see a real drop in the US equities markets. As long as the world remains delusional and places a high value on the US currency, any perceived currency trouble gets translated into a flight to safety namely, US currency, rather than PMs. The US equities markets will begin a descent when: a ) the pricing pressures that will be experienced by US firms in the first quarter of '98, as they compete with much much cheaper Asian goods, get factored into the price of stocks ( already the big three car manufacturers are bracing for an influx of cheaper Asian cars b ) what goods can be sold in Asia result in large currency losses as profits are exported back home c ) long-term real rates begin to rise as the torrid pace of monetization of the US currency finally shows up on the trader's radar screen d ) manufacturing sector over-capacity in the US starts translating into further pricing pressures and finally, e ) unemployment stats to rise as US companies begin to react to decreased profits and over-capacity by firing workers which f ) will reveal the high individual debt levels of the American consumer, who will be forced to repay the debt at much higher interest rates than the current inflation rate. At that point, the consumer goods sector demand should begin to dry up, so that even at competitive prices, foreign and domestic goods demand will decrease dramatically.

The fact that the Fed reports that factories are humming along at 83% capacity utilization in the face of falling export demand suggests that the US industrial sector is behind in realizing the large over-capacity resulting from the go-go years of the 90's. As inventories are already beginning to increase, I'm not sure why this is the case.

In summary: until the over-valuation of assets in the equities markets is revealed, PM's will remain in the doldrums. Once the paper assets are revalued at more realistic levels, I suspect that there will be flight from the US currency back into PM's. But I don't think it will occur before that time. When it does occur, the rise in PM's ( in US dollars ) will be dramatic, to say the least.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:55
HighRise U>(D.A. (something.coming.something.big)) ID#401460:
The troops are out in force this am. I think you are right !
Markets up yesterday and this am.
Gold spike up yesterday - INTEREST RATE CUT?
CNBC Upbeat
GE Upbeat Report
GE disclaimer - GE is the parent of CNBC and the rest of us.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:47
Carl U>(Donald, re BOJ and others in the future.) ID#333131:
The old expression was pushing on a string. I suspect we are going to hear it more in the future.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:44
vronsky U>(ASIA BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARDSPOT (December 15, 1997)) ID#426220:
The ORACLE of the Orient long absent from our website has returned with a vengeance in his scathing rebuttal of Central Bank spewing that “gold is dead,” that “gold is no longer a hedge against economic and currency chaos,” etc. etc. His succinct and extremely well-documented opinion concludes that Central Bank braying is “RUBBISH, RUBBISH AND MORE RUBBISH.”

The ORACLE proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the only defense southeast Asians had... AND WILL HAVE - against the on-going currency chaos, stock market turmoil and the region’s crumbling bank system is to invest in GOLD. The staunchest and most fanatical anti-GOLDBUGS are obliged to concede to the irrefutable evidence that GOLD is the ONLY SAFE HARBOR vis-à-vis the looming and devastating Domino Effect engulfing the area:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle121597.html


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:39
tolerant1 U>(STUDIOr) ID#31868:
I believe my friend the war is over. This time it is being played out in reverse. The war was lost some time ago when the printing press was employed as the saviour.

We are now witnessing the battles as they occur in the media and the markets. Witness the peace talks in Washington this week as the supposed financial leaders all gather to talk. They have been running their mouthes like the printing press, but all the good intentions are of no meaning.

The death count will now begin in earnest. At this point throwing more money at the problem will only insure the complete cremation of all the currency corpses.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:39
D.A. U>(something.coming.something.big) ID#7568:
Donald:

Of all the news releases you have posted I found the most interesting one to be the piece on Japan where they mysteriously cancelled their plans to reveal their latest economic salvage operation. The announcement has been put off until tomorrow. Combine this with today's FOMC meeting and the meetings between Greenspan, Rubin and Weigel and surely something big is brewing.

U.S. military doctrine seems to have embraced the idea of 'overwhelming' force. If faced with an ant, bring out a sledgehammer. I wonder if this thinking has spread to the econ-warroom. Perhaps we will see a rate cut today, followed by a massive injection of cash to buy giant quantities of SE Asian currencies. Having let the currencies decline to absurdly low levels, maybe they feel that intervention can now be successful. It has long been a dictum of currency intervention to only strike when the market has begun to go your way. With the Rupiah reversing a bit last night and the Won holding 15% above its panic lows perhaps the iron is hot.

The boys know that they may only get one real shot at slaying the dragon. Look for them to bring out the nukes.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:38
HighRise U>(GOLD or BONDS) ID#401460:
Sell Gold buy Bonds ! 4.3/4% bond just projected by a CNBC guest.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:37
Ted U>(More Post Office CRAP in Canada(can't understand why more companies don't set up shop here(duh)) ID#364147:
You should be able to SPIT on customers! http://www.hfxnews.southam.ca/story.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:34
Mike Sheller U>(This, that, n' astrology) ID#347447:
JTF: Glad I caught you before ambling off to the other office. RJ belongs on a mountaintop as far as I'm concerned. I would study trading at his feet any day. In an earlier post you said I'm hoping that someday I'll come across the key data that will allow me to quantify the essence of astrology. May I humbly suggest that you revise your approach ( ala contrarianism ) and seek to QUALIFY rather than quantify. What I mean by this is that an understanding of what astrology REALLY is ( not the presumptions of fools who know absolutely nothing about it, yet feel very free to debunk it ) may be best obtained, and intellectually exploited, by knowing something of the CONCEPT, and working backwards. Then the data will reveal themselves. Then science and metaphysics will do more of what Newton and Einstein began. To that end it is important to understand the integrity of the PHYSICAL universe as an interrelated whole that is the expression of a higher universe, if you will, of consciousness, will, thought and feeling. The physical is a creation of the non-physical, NOT the other way around. It is not a case of there being possible correlations between what goes on in the human world on the crust of the earth and the furthest reaches of space. There is a DEFINITE RELATIONSHIP. It could not be otherwise. It is not a matter that perhaps Solar tides, planetary relationships, and the filtering action of the Moon, and the electromagnetic qualities of nature, etc, etc, have some relationship to life on earth. IT IS A FACT. As example, a human body is a micocosmic universe. Now wouldn't it be silly to deny that a clot flowing through the thigh has no relationship to the rest of the structure, or nothing to do with the potential health of the heart or brain? While it is in the thigh, it is just some quantifiable entity, another coagulation of matter in the cosmos of the body. But when it hits the brain, life is suddenly a very qualifiable thing, is it not? Cause and effect reigns. If one can get a grasp on the source of the causes, then one can get a grasp on expected effects. True astroplogy is not based on the visible constellations. Brother NINER posted Asimov's ( I believe ) observations to that effect, but the esoteric Zodiac, and the ephemeris ( of which NINER is not even sure what it is ) are based on the 360 degree circle, and the initial Aries point as the first degree. Wherever and whenever the equinox occurs is the first degree. It is the ascension of light over dark. It is the Resurrection of the Lamb. Whether it falls in July, or December or whatever we choose to call the month, whether this constellation or that is in the sky at night, the start of Aries is still the first degree of the 360 degree circle. In the complete circle of 360 degrees, all things come into, and go out of, manifestation. If you understand the TEMPLATE of the Zodiac, you can understand many things that would otherwise be closed to the human mind. The movements of the Sun, Moon, planets, and certain mathematical point relationships to the 360 degree circle is what astrology is about. Brother LGB is right when he says there is an enormous element of FAITH in the utilization of astrology. It is precisely that faith that allows one person to utilize a structure of this nature to obtain understanding and light, and another to revile ignorantly, ranting in the darkness. Those who live by the law of scientifically proven fact are doomed to live failed lives, because they can never rise to everything they think they know. Those who live by faith can utilize EVERY gift of life, and make the living of it a work of ART. JTF, I realize I am speaking generalities here, but they are impoprtant to grasp. There is so much to say to you on this subject, but so little time and opportunity. Nevertheless, your posts are always a beacon of reason and fellowship, and intellectual openness and integrity. I will never refuse to respond to your inquiries, and perhaps, over time, I may even make a little sense to you. Sense which will help you in YOUR work. I know how much I depend on the sense of others for guidance in what I do. BTW, my ephemeris is YOUR ephemeris. It got us to the Moon, did it not? Besides, I couldn't find one made out of chicken bones ( ;- )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:34
HighRise U>() ID#401460:
0.1% CPI as always positive?
Housing Starts highest ever?
No Problem? No Inflation?
FED RATES?
Remember these numbers are most likely hotter then reported.
Just mis-reported HK up 88pts
Crash Over?

To much BS for me.

Auto prices down?
They wouldn't even think of raising rates.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:31
John Disney__A U>(You gotta have HEART - miles and miles of HEART) ID#24140:
To All Platinum Fans

All may not be lost - the low I have is Jan 31.

Interday low of 351 - close of 352.5. Action for Dec 15

on future ( same basis ) was 352 close and 350.5

interday low. So we're only under by about half a buck

on the Future ( spot is a different story ) .

Also in yen, I have support at 45000 PLUS a magic

Gann line for what that's worth at about the same level.

So yen support should cut in at 45000/131= 343 at the

worst.

This is the optimistic view. I make no promises. Cross

fingers.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:29
Ted U>(CPI) ID#364147:
CPI core and non-core EXPECTED to be up .2% and the 'reality' ( ) is:
up.1% and up .1%---better than expected dudes!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:28
STUDIO.R U>(@ ALL. LOCK AND LOAD...LET THE BAYONETS SHINE. TODAY WE FIGHT FOR HONOR.) ID#93232:
This is the stuff of war. In the minds of the recently harmed, there will be the thought that...if there were no strong U.S. dollar...there would be no safe haven for our money to run. Our money is now gone. Our people suffer from the greed of Uncle Sam...he has destroyed our money and now, our country.

We have a SERIOUS and VOLATILE prospect here. A.G., Give these people $U.S. dollars and buy their currencies now. This would be far, far better than losing the precious lives of our young. This has gone far enough.

Personally, I will work harder to repay my share. It most probably will be a profitable venture...it is a critical investment in good, industrious people at a critical time. These people have embraced our dreams and adopted the democratic principles of their big brother.

Otherwise, immediately sail two carriers to the waters of Korea and one to the Gulf of Tonkin. Can we withstand the heat from three flash points? Put the fire out, now.

Tolerant, I'm sorry...I don't like foreign aid waste also...but I'm scared enough now to spend.

The gold that has been in loose hands has now been delivered. I will make my final purchase today. I am a proud goldbug...but, today I am an American.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:21
Donald__A U>(@Vronsky) ID#26793:
Think of the IMF as the bankers Salvation Army. Put a nickel in the drum; save another drunken bum.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:17
Ted U>(This is SICK!) ID#364147:
Read it + weep:
December 16, 1997

In This Michael Jackson Video,
He Sings South Korea's Praises

By STEVE GLAIN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

SEOUL, South Korea -- In just eight weeks, South Korea has gone from
being one of the world's most powerful industrial economies to one of its
more desperate charity cases. So, a leading presidential contender figured,
it was time to gather two very wealthy people in a video conference to
offer advice and support.

The guest panelists: George Soros, lord of the hedge fund, and Michael
Jackson, king of the moon walk. The two were beamed live to Seoul via
satellite, as were former U.S. trade envoy Mickey Kantor and a
representative of a Saudi prince.

In the surreal shadow of Korea's financial crisis,
the playbill of Messrs. Soros and Jackson, icons
of American financial and cultural hegemony, was
enough to give candidate Kim Dae Jung the edge
in this campaign's weirdness stakes, at least for a
brief period.

This is, after all, an election where the No. 3
candidate's defining impression is his physical
resemblance to a dead dictator ( Park Chung Hee,
who presided over this country's rapid
industrialization from 1961 to 1979 ) . Meanwhile,
Mr. Kim's closest rival, Lee Hoi Chang, was hit
with allegations that his son ducked military service by lying about his
height. ( Doctors recently measured the son on national television, found
him too short for national service, and Mr. Lee has since staged a
comeback. )

But for pure star appeal, Mr. Kim's teleconference was hard to beat. The
meeting was the inspiration of Kim allies You Jeung Keun, a provincial
governor, and Kenneth Choi, a California-based associate of Mr.
Jackson's family. With Korea's economy in a free fall, the two men wanted
to put together a meeting of distinguished minds that might help generate
ideas to pull the country out of its doldrums.

The conference, held early Friday morning, couldn't have been timed
better for Mr. Kim. He was being hounded by Michel Camdessus, head
of the International Monetary Fund, for wavering in his support for a $57
billion emergency bailout fund to prevent Korea from going bankrupt. ( Mr.
Kim had suggested that the IMF's terms were too harsh and should be
renegotiated. )

Mr. Kim's aides persuaded him to use the conference as a platform to
throw his support behind the IMF bailout. The candidate invited about 20
broadcast and print journalists, most of them Korean.

Blunt Words

First on the screen was Mr. Soros, live from New York. He has been
accused by some Asian leaders of conspiring to sabotage the region's
currencies through wanton speculation -- an allegation he firmly denies.
But Mr. Kim welcomed Mr. Soros as a sage. My country faces a grave
economic crisis, said the candidate to the larger-than-life video image of
Mr. Soros. We badly need outside help.

Mr. Soros was sincere but direct. You must invite foreign companies to
come in and be direct investors and owners of Korean companies, he
said. And companies that can't meet their obligations must be allowed to
go bankrupt.

Mr. Kantor, a veteran of numerous public spats with mercantilist Korea,
came next. His image, broadcast from Washington, was met by hisses
from several reporters. Aware of Korea's election on Thursday, Mr.
Kantor prefaced his remarks by cautioning participants that our part in
this informal discussion ... should not be used in any way as an influence on
the election. He advised Koreans to look at Mexico as a model for
economic recovery.

'Warmth, Love, Sincerity'

Then came the main event. A woman's off-camera voice announced that
Mr. Jackson was ready to speak from New York, and a murmur fanned
through the crowd. Suddenly, on the screen appeared Mr. Jackson in
black fedora, black sunglasses and black frock. ( He wasn't wearing his
trademark white glove. )

Mr. Jackson, who several years ago was briefly banned from performing
by Korean officials who condemned his antics and lyrics, read dreamily
from a prepared text. Although Korea is currently undergoing economic
difficulties, he said, I truly believe in my heart that Korea is a country of
warmth, love, sincerity and complete innocence. He then disclosed plans
to hold a charity concert for starving children in North Korea.

Mr. Jackson may someday have a more direct interest in South Korea's
recovery. He has been in negotiations to buy a huge winter-sports resort
from its owner, a South Korean underwear manufacturer. He also was
pictured last month hugging Mr. Kim, and he praised the candidate for his
efforts to promote democracy. ( Mr. Jackson's agent declined to
comment. )

As for Mr. Kantor, who now works as a trade lawyer and consultant in
Washington, he says his agent booked the gig. He wouldn't say how much
he was paid, but initially thought it was a speech to a university audience.
Then he heard Michael Jackson was also going to be on the
teleconference. Mr. Kantor thought that was a reference to a talk-show
host by the same name. When they said it was the entertainer, I said,
'Come on.' But Mr. Kantor says he didn't stay hooked into the
conference long enough to hear the entertainer's remarks.

At the end of the teleconference, Mr. Kim thanked his guests for their
kind and candid advice. He stressed his commitment to carrying out
measures proposed by the IMF, and to open markets in general.

The conference, parts of which were later televised, met with mixed
reviews. Byun Sung Hyuk, a student and Kim supporter, was impressed
that the candidate didn't need an interpreter for the English-language
session, demonstrating that he was a competent diplomat. The meeting,
he says, showed that Mr. Kim was committed to nurturing high-tech
telecommunication systems.

But Chi Seung Hoon, a 29-year-old sales representative who opposes
Mr. Kim, dismissed it as a publicity stunt and a tragedy for our politics
and our people.

Return to top of page
Copyright © 1997 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:17
Donald__A U>(S&P multi-country Asian banking analysis. No bank can be rated better than its local currency) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/971215/s_p_asian_bank_mrkts_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:15
vronsky U>(HOW PATHETICALLY SAD FOR ASIA) ID#426220:
WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - “The IMF said on Monday it would ask member states to cough up extra cash as Asia's worsening financial problems drain its resources.”

The most succinct way to describe the ridiculous attempt of the IMF in its actions to “rescue” Asia is:
A PAUPER GIVING ALMS TO THE POOR AND DESTITUTE.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:07
Donald__A U>(Gold discovered in Illinois) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/12/15/general_news/usgoldcoi_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:03
Donald__A U>(Thai speculators taking gold out of Thailand government says) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/thailand_gold_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:02
Ted U>(@ what else is new) ID#364147:
S+P futures are up 3.20 and Feb. gold is down .80....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 08:00
Donald__A U>(Morning gold and PM news from London) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/gold_easier_in_europ_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:55
Donald__A U>(IMF says China not a domino) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971215/imf_official_sees_no_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:52
Ted U>(@ Cape Breton) ID#364147:
Good mornin all!! A beautiful crystal-clear day with temps @ 20 degrees..
...Good-N Tort!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:45
JTF U>(Gold) ID#57232:
RJ - Where are you? Comments on gold? Thanks -- We always appreciate your words of wisdom, and yesterday I appreciated your defense of Mike Sheller. Would be interesting to see why that fellow you met yesterday can handle high altitude activity on Mt Everest -- is he part Sherpa?


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:42
Donald__A U>(German position on more IMF funding) ID#26793:
My ASEAN post implies that Theo Waigel made a statement that Germany is opposed to increasing the funding of the IMF. I can't find the actual statement. That would be important news if true.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:42
Cyclist U>(test) ID#339274:
FWIW Gold withstood the test this morning,that abx already knew.
Platinum will is to bottom in the last week of December plenty of time.
Impala mines is starting to look very attractive with 4xs earnings.
Juniors should follow the generals in the upside today.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:34
JTF U>(Great Joke ) ID#57232:
Tortfeasor: Just what the doctor ordered? Now is Benson someone we know? I do recall and E. Benson who recently decided to step down from his postion. Do the pilot and copilot have names we would recognize?

Now, I thought you were going to tell us that the pilot told the passengers that he blew up the engine on the other side so that the plane could fly straight!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:34
Donald__A U>(ASEAN complains European zeal to meet EMU targets are hurting Asia bailout) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971216/asean_meetings_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:29
JTF U>(Thoughts for ANOTHER) ID#57232:
ANOTHER: Always enjoy your posts. I agree with you that the world currencies are at a critical point in SEAsia. If the world's financial institutions do not come to the support of S Korea's banks and financial firms, we will have the currency disaster that you have warned us about. My impression is that our Fed Chairman A Greenspan will be instrumental in preventing this.

My guess is that the world and the US markets will survive this crisis, but at the cost of increased inflation. US interest rates cannot go up at this time because of the risk of fanning SEAsian flames.

My question to you is namely, could certain countries simply be using oil and gold as a substitute for dollars, rather than to supplement dollar-based purchases with gold? This would make sense to me, as I see no evidence that oil is fixed in terms of the US dollar.

I have another question -- What do you see the oil-consuming nations doing when they find the price of oil rising in dollar terms? This will not happen, I think this winter because of reduced demand for oil, and its increased production, but it will happen.

I have always maintained that oil as a nonrenewable resource should be conserved for its most useful function -- the building block of chemicals in industry. It is much to valuable to be used for fuel.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:27
Donald__A U>(Japan MoF. Lots of talk; no action.....yet.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971215/japan_to_deal_with_e_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:22
Donald__A U>(Deja Vu USA 1931: BOJ prints, banks refuse to lend, BOJ perplexed!!!) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971214/japan_corporate_sent_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:20
Tortfeasor U>(Joke of the morn) ID#36965:
The following story relates to the gold and silver markets of late, but I will leave the comparison to the reader. Looks like gold and silver are tipsy this mornign like a drunken sailor.

While cruising at 40,000 feet, the airplane shuddered and Mr.
Benson looked out the window.

Good lord! he screamed, one of the engines just blew up!

Other passengers left their seats and came running over;
suddenly the aircraft was rocked by a second blast as yet
another engine exploded on the other side.

The passengers were in a panic now, and even the stewardesses
couldn't maintain order. Just then, standing tall and smiling
confidently, the pilot strode from the cockpit and assured
everyone that there was nothing to worry about. His words and
his demeanor seemed made most of the passengers feel better,
and they sat down as the pilot calmly walked to the door of
the aircraft. There, he grabbed several packages from under
the seats and began handing them to the flight attendants.

Each crew member attatched the package to their backs.

Say, spoke up an alert passenger, aren't those parachutes?

The pilot said they were.

The passenger went on, But I thought you said there was nothing
to worry about?

There isn't, replied the pilot as a third engine exploded.
We're going to get help.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:20
Jung U>(puts and calls ... simulated trade) ID#237164:
There has been some talk about puts and calls at this site.
I found a site that is offering simulated trade ... we could
follow the suggestions and see what they mean in terms of
simulated $.

There seems to be 2 pages of fine print, so after I find my
glasses, I will decide if I am going to give it a try.

http://donney.net/cbotagree.htm

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:16
Mike Sheller U>(Jumpin' Jupiter) ID#347447:
We move into the throbbing heart of the Jupiter sextile to NYSE Moon today & tomorrow. Still holding out for silver to get to resistance at $6.30 - 35 ish. The price has not spiked yet, and that might portend a bust out upside from the rounded flag forming in the daily. Get ready, get set...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:15
Donald__A U>(BOJ says money growth figures not all due to printing) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/971215/jpn_nov_money_growth_1.html

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:12
Speed U>(Nick@C) ID#286199:
The American strategy seems to be to print large numbers of dollars, and then loan them to foreign countries in return for which they don't sell our bonds wholesale. These dollars will either be used to purchase debt or buy our goods and services and stocks, or just get stuffed into mattresses. Short-term, this has worked quite well. Longer-term, the consequences are ominous.

The WSJ-Interactive has two articles of note: 30% of American small companies say they will hire more people next year. This is bullish for labor and can only increase pressure on wages. Platinum is falling due to comfortable supply situation.

Close to home: Oil is in super abundance, gasoline in Houston has fallen to .99/gallon in many places. Debt is up, retail sales are below expectations so far.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:07
ANOTHER U>(THOUGHTS!) ID#60253:
Mr. Allen ( USA ) :

Thank you for your thinking thru of my

posts. I am told that you are “on target”.

Understand that using oil to back gold instead

of the US$ is but one of several outcomes

affecting the gold market at this time. This

will be the final move as the currencies are

destroyed. Gold at a much higher dollar price,

as a result of oil/backing, will allow most

paper economies to continue in operation.

Gold will, in fact, become a “world oil

currency” and be of national importance to all

countries. In the same way that all oil in the

middle east ( and most other major producing

countries ) is nationally owned for the good of

all, gold in the ground will be deemed a

“currency reserve” for the good of all.

During this time all other metals ( and paper

investments ) will fail to hold value. Access to

oil and gold will be next in line of importance

behind food.

CB leasing/ lending is winding down as

thoughts are changing. With the oil states

going more to physical there is no point in

maintaining the paper gold market. UBS was

the first to be cut free. If you do not have

physical yet, it will cost perhaps 100% more

after the turn, if available at all. If the paper

fire in ASIA burns too hot, at some point

gold will not be supplied even before the

turn!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 07:00
rube U>(SWC) ID#333127:
My SWC purchase does not look so good this AM, anybody know what's with plat and pall?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:58
panda U>(Spock) ID#30116:
Thank you. My apologies to the German speaking... ( I don't speak German ) :- )

I owe, I owe, so off to work I go?

BBML............

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:55
Mike Sheller U>(What a Guy!) ID#347447:
DONALD: As usual, Donald, you are on the MON-EEE! Our mining & resource company IS planning an issue of coins, eventually with our OWN metal ( initially silver, later gold ) . I will not divulge the nature of the set, but we are intending it to be artistic and meaningful to a wide audience. We hope to make our marketing introduction before next year is over. If this initial thrust is successful, we will be following it up with other themes.This is ONE way we are intending to make a difference ( even if small ) in the mining industry, and, more importantly, the precious metals sphere. We have some other promotional ideas, one of which is fun and we will be springing on goldbugs at Gold-Eagle around the turn of the year.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:49
Spock U>(BMW) ID#210114:
Yes Panda you are right. It is Bayerishe ( Bavarian in German ) though.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:48
panda U>(RJ) ID#30116:
Who's selling platinum in to the ground and why? BBML....

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:46
panda U>(Beamer) ID#30116:
I believe it's Bavarian Motor Werke ( BMW ) :- )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:41
Nick@C U>(Spock the platinum buyer) ID#393224:
$19.50 cheaper than yesterday!!
G'nite for real this time!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:33
Spock U>(To All) ID#210114:
Is it worth buying Platinum at the moment

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:27
Donald__A U>(@Over 50 Mining Executive) ID#26793:
Gold miners should add value to their products by creating coins in useful, exchangeable weights. The coins should be dated and compete with each other for qualities such as purity and artistic design. Take a page from the history book of California. Creating demand for collectible coins in sufficient quantity to serve as back-door local currency.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:25
Nick@C U>(Goodnight all) ID#393224:
Europe mostly up
Globex S & P up 280
gold 283.40
platinum worthless--don't even look!!
nite all

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 06:20
Nick@C U>(You're late!!) ID#393224:
C'mon day shift. You're late as usual!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:58
Spock U>($OZ and Gold Price.) ID#210114:
Sounds unpatriotic but the falling Australian dollar is saving my arse. Bought gold at US$321.20 in August and it is now worth exactly the same Australian dollars as I paid for it despite the US$35 fall.

I hope Bill Buckler is right when he says a rise in the $OZ price of gold preceeds a rise in the $US price.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:51
Mike Sheller U>(An' foiddermore) ID#347447:
FARFEL: Brother Farfel last nite postulated that the over 50 executives of the gold mining industry should step aside and allow the 35-40 year olds to take the helm. Farf pointed out how it is the kids in the other financial fields who are making the rules and leaving gold behind. This sounds like turning over Saigon to the VietCong if you ask me. I think they have spoken. They don't want ANY PART of gold. But, just say these whippersnappers do, what pray tell would they show us in creativity? Farfel, for shame, commenting on certain aspects of gold miner hygeine without giving any constructive thoughts to the matter.

What creative action did you have in mind? An inquiring miner wants to know.

Signed

An over 50 mining exec

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:46
lobengula U>(Nick@C) ID#304163:

Africa is where I work most of the time--looking for the metallic stuff nobody seems to want at the moment but which one day very soon will prevail.

Harem is in good shape but don't tell the Mrs. Leopard skins a bit dusty CITES has seen to that but, YES, I do have a buffalo tail fly switch! Shot it and the accompanying ashtrays ( front hooves ) , book-ends ( rear hooves ) and hide jacket many moons ago in the Eastern Transvaal.

Keep up the good work.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:43
Mike Sheller U>(G'Day Gang) ID#347447:
The Book of Revelations was not purporting to be an investment text ( I don't think ) except for making an investment with the one sure play, Eternal Life, Inc. ( some sort of insurance company, I think, on NYSE...ticker is GOD ) . So when gold becomes worthless ( is it time yet, Lord? ) it doesn't mean so much as to point out a buying opportunity as to indicate when the big one hits the fan, when the apocalypse strikes, when the end-times are near, the fundamental things will apply, as time goes bye bye. As my better half points out, we are ALL always in our own personal end-time anyhow. We don't have to wait for that grand secular topping out of the old human chain of events in some final apocalyptic ( though many goldbugs live for the day ) . We could, each and every, and any, one of us, be living our LAST DAYS this week! or today. So I guess the lesson of the pop spiritual is as sublime as any...forget your troubles, c'mon get happy, gonna chase all your cares away. Forget those troubles, c'mon get happy, get ready for the judgement day. All together now, and follow the dancing cursor...

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:35
Nick@C U>(lobengula) ID#393224:
lobengula , Zero degrees I thought you were a Zimbabwean king with a harem and an ox-tail fly swatter, dressed up in leopard skins. Good name for a Pom

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:30
Nick@C U>(Bill Buckler) ID#393224:
Ahoy, mate. Got any new charts for us Gold looking OK in Aussie$$. Maybe the Yanks will stay in Brobdingnag while the rest of us stay in the real world.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:20
lobengula U>(Nick@C) ID#304163:
I echo Bill B's sentiments--great posts. Something to distract from the gloom and doom of an unbiddable gold price!

Bill B--it is 0 degrees C here in my part of the Uof K and gold would freeze its nuts off! ( Maybe it already did that? )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:16
Goldbug23 U>(dwenck@prodigy.net) ID#432148:
CASSANDRAAURATOR: I agree with a lot of your 04:20 missile re ANZUS etc. but would like to discuss further with you. My e-mail provided. As I am a Libertarian and you often sound like one we maybe can solve a few problems. Yes, I am a Yank ;- )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:15
Bill Buckler U>(Nick@Cs Posts) ID#257234:
Nick, up here where I am in Queensland it was 32C today ( about 90 F ) with humidity almost 80%. In this climate, Gold would rust! Just a short note to say that I have really enjoyed your posts today. Most refreshing and right on the money ( if you'll pardon the expression )

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:04
Nick@C U>(Auraciouswisdom) ID#393224:
Auracious--your 04:20 the best post of the day. When I visit Yankeeland, I cannot believe what I see on TV and read in the papers. Talk about an oversized ostrich with it's head in the sand. THEY say the Japanese are the most zenophobic race on earth. THEY haven't been to Main Street, USA. Now these comments do not apply to our Kitco mates as they are the salt of the earth and well informed. The average Yank,however, wouldn't be able to find his ass in the dark without a search light. If CNBC can be taken as a typical example of information flow from the land of the free--they are in big trouble. Despised Yes. Do they care ( or even know ) No. Do we love 'em Yes. But dang if it isn't painful for a koala to make love to an elephant!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 05:02
Goldbug23 U>(Excellent Y2K info ) ID#432148:
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/19971215.htm -
Source is interesting.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:31
jcw U>(Fed Policy and the price of gold) ID#198170:
For those of you that have a subscription to WSJ Interactive, the Editorial for Tuesday makes interesting reading. Angell ( former Fed Governor ) shares his insights on Fed policy as they relate to the current economic environment of low unemployment, low inflation and a declining gold price. To summarize ( if I get it right ) , he seems to be saying that low unemployment rates should not be a concern as a leading indicator of inflation and that the current trend of lower gold prices does not yet indicate deflation ( though he feels if it reaches $240/oz. thta would be a concern ) .

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:29
aurator U>(japlats) ID#257148:
Nick@C now I thought that the Jap car manufacturers esp Mitsi have their hands in significant S African Pl miners ( come in crusty ) , where are these yank tanks gonna get plat from? Are there new emission standards going to effect significant numbers of us cars ( that's autos fellas, keep up ) in the next year or so?
Pity we have no Japanese posters, somehow can't see domestic dumping of Japlats yet. they are not hurtin enough to dump white gold. This is not domestic dumping. I think it is general PMT


-------------Precious-------- Metal------- Tension


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:25
Gebernax U>(platinum low) ID#419147:

Uhm..could this platinum low be
reaction to unwillingness of
US Congress to reduce CO2 emissions
in Kyoto.

I mean platinum is the key component
of catalysts, fuell cells etc?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:25
Producer U>(Please send a bottle north) ID#226355:
Careful aurator; we all know what happened to Cassandra.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:21
Nick@C U>(At sunset) ID#393224:
Europe all black ( at this time )

http://quote.yahoo.com/intlmarkets

gold 283.40
platinum 34 1/2 cents

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:20
aurator U>(This may be important, although I doubt many of my N American friends know about ANZUS? ) ID#257148:
Nick@C, thing is mate, most 15 yr old americans can't point to Washington on the map, what we got here on kitco is the best they make....got no idea, most of 'em, just how despised they are ( you never asked my opinion last night *cherokee* ) ...individually...love 'em, let my daughter marrry one ( got no daughters but I'd do the same for the tucks ) but collectively.......{darnest thing is that the constitution, apart from that lunacy about giving bears right arms which we shan't get into} americans are .****loathed*****Universally

...is that despite, or because of:- Coke and Hollywood, Levis and Jim Beam. Beavis & Butthead? So mes amis, my pick, .... you have been so full of yourselves ( as a nation, not as individuals, because my experience of those who post here is in direct conflict with the above, that is those who post have a generosity of spirit, a quest for freedom and a desire for liberty that is not born our by the rest-of-the-world-perception of you ) that you do not know how vulnerable you are. Your allies will always stand by you, but why do you make your enemies your most favoured nations for trading and spurn your allies?
We been hurt in NZ. And we been hurt by our one time allies, because we refused to allow nuclear weapons down here.

you don't know how late it is..

cassandraurator

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 04:12
Nick@C U>(Platauracious) ID#393224:
Jeeeez Auracious. Send me a bottle of that stuff. Platinum is a very easy one to figure out. The Japanese LOVE platinum. The Japanese are in big strife. Ergo platinum is in big strife. Simple. Just wait 'till the catalytic converter mob start descending on the cheap plat., mate. GM and FORD are lickin' their chops right now!!! Lamb ( plat ) stew is on the menu and 'caus the Ruskie miners can't get their Norilsk act together ( can't even pay the poor bastards ) , plat shall soon be up there in heaven with St. Peter. Now, Auracious, I know that you are an extremely religious person ( worship at the golden shrine every night ) , so you will comprende the total lack of meaning in the above statement.

Anyone not into plat. -- the bell has just rung. Don't be late to dinner 'caus there'll only be scraps left in a coupla weeks.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:57
Nick@C U>(Dow Fiddling while New York burns) ID#393224:
OK Yanks--explain something to me. Your exports to Asia and everywhere else that has depreciated in your currency terms ( the entire world ) are going to fall off the end of the pier with concrete boots on!!! You're gonna have to buy all your own goods, 'caus no one else can afford 'em. Now this is the part that needs explaining. WHEN is your sharemarket going to realise that you are stuffed? You are being slowly roasted and you don't even know it.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:56
aurator U>(call that a language?) ID#257148:
week hands? umm as opposed to week-end hands? Croesus!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:50
aurator U>(OK, QUICK QUIZZZZZZ....ETYMOLOGY OF PLATINUM........'sbeautiful...) ID#257148:
Beamer, I am happy to oblige, but bollox I know what i talk about ok? there are real experts on this site who just put up with me, Ludd knows why i ain't bin bard.....


....I am thinking, well that means I'm watching the birds, that really platinum is being forced out of week hands. Nick@C made the observation that my precious rose against the aussie$ today. Corse, today I didn't phone JM to ask them spot in NZ altho have made it a quest of mine, plse dont ask for data, did ya see what I did to Mr Puetz a few months ago? Well, Mr Puetz, calling the top, is looking RIGHT ON THE BUTTON, that is unless there is another bull market as seems to be in the stars for '98.

Have i mentioned Pl yet? The reason pl hit the skids is simply *hubris*, that is, the direction of the market can only be up, down, or not at all, the village idiot's jerkin.

THose mutual funds that do the best in one year are the ones to avoid the following year. and Vice versa ( vice is nicer ) have a wee read of Against the Gods if you need convincing...ergo.......some of the best analysts on this site, on past performance, are, by definition, going to stuff it up big time on the next call. No disrespect, to all the TA..s traders and chartists, just that i would not depend for my livelihood for the rest of my life on your occupation....there have been some great calls on platinum, so good that the next call just had to be rip-the-shirt-off-my-back-wrong...'slife..

by gar


cat amongst the pigeons? Naaaah Who Cares ( glad to see you can teach, you Gloomy Gus )

plataurator


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:40
Beamer U>(Nick @C) ID#26144:
Thanks for the information -- I'll pass it on! Can't afford a
BMW - I've too much money in gold stocks -- As for outer space,
if I could figure a fast and cheap way to get there, maybe I'd go -
take some Plutonium and sell it to the Plutonians ... I'd take gold
but its probably down there too......

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:36
Nick@C U>(Beamer) ID#393224:
G'day Beamer. Oz is seen as a commodity country. Commodities down. Aussie $$ down. Imagine my horror at our politicians selling 2/3rds of our gold stash--hope they have had the good sense to secretly buy it back at these prices --and pigs may yet fly!!! Our economy is actually quite strong. They have done a coupla good things--like cutting spending, reigning in the public service etc. Aussie $$ is the lowest in 4 years. Damn if this Asian flu isn't contagious. Gold miners, however are getting more bucks/ounce!! The golden lining in a sh** coloured coat!! Our interest rates will rise. Our current account will blow out. Our exports to Asia will fall. Our imports from Asia will rise. When your currency goes--the flow-on effects are astronomical!! Ask a Korean how he feels right now--THEN DUCK!!! I fear big trouble, as there are a whole lot of pissed off Asians out there!!!

Beamer--do you own a BMW or are you from outer space

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:30
Beamer U>(@Aurator) ID#26144:
I believe it stands for Belgian Motor Works - or it can mean
smiling very obviously -- in either case, it doesn't matter ... just a name I picked out of the air late a night. Since you are awake and one of the knowledgeable posters here ( this I base on much reading of this site ) ... What do see as the forces pushing platinum down at the moment?
The more I read about platinum as a catalyst in converters and fuel
cells ( not to mention the obvious Japanese decorative appeal ) the more I
wonder why, with a supply of less than 5 million ozs. a year, platinum
is tanking. Your informed response would be much appreciated
from an extreme novice... Thankyou

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:13
aurator U>(too salty to care) ID#257148:
Beamer ain't that some kraut car? biblical crap. sorry. Gold. see, the letter l. un-bible me.

Gold, and cricket, of course.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:12
Beamer U>(@Noah) ID#26144:
I made reference to earlier posts quoting Revelations which stated
that gold would become worthless -- since I am not particularly
well -educated biblically I am not in a position to judge What I'm really getting at is - What DOES have value? Of gold I am a fan, of
baseball at $75 million a player I am not .... What about the rest of the
North American Population? More to the point, what about the rest of
the WORLD population ( Soccer perhaps.....? )

```

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:11
Beamer U>(Nick @c) ID#26144:
I phoned my brother-in-law who has spent the last 2 years skiing
a Whistler ( B.C. ) on leave frm Northern Queensland, and informed
him of the current value of the $Australian - he was somewhat
flabbergasted, not being a person who takes notice of these things
in absentia. What do you see as the major forces behind this
decline in currency? I'd like to pass it on... Thanks

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 03:04
Beamer U>(@Noah) ID#26144:
I made reference to earlier posts quoting Revelations which stated
that gold would become worthless -- since I am not particularly
well -educated biblically I am not in a position to judge What I'm really getting at is - What DOES have value? Of gold I am a fan, of
baseball at $75 million a player I am not .... What about the rest of the
North American Population? More to the point, what about the rest of
the WORLD population ( Soccer perhaps.....? )

```

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:57
Nick@C U>(Gold going through the roof) ID#393224:
Gold is zooming folks!!! Only if you are an Aussie however...or a South Korean.. or a Thai...Malaysian ...Indian..................

Gold 283.4 ( Kitco ) /Aussie $$$ .6486 ( evening news ) equals gold A$436. Hey folks--gold is UP ten bucks in two days. Who wants to visit America anyway?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:49
aurator U>(The music of the ratios) ID#257148:
RJ
In years gone by I did some research on Au/Pl ratio, as I did with the Ag/Au ratio. I always ask myself what such a ratio actually measures, because, once there is a de-coupling in the psychological relationship there is a de-couplling in the physical spot price.

However, there may be another mechanism at work, that is the relative to the
( a ) abundance of the elements
( b ) utilities of the elements
( c ) cost of mining.

Is platinum joining her stablemate Au, for a last wash out of the weak Japanese holders?


I did not know Rob Hall. another NZer, RIP.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:43
Nick@C U>(precious) ID#393224:
RJ-- platinum now 345.
Gold seems to be bouncing off the 283 mark. Is this the line in the sand? Would appreciate your comments.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:41
aurator U>(North! To Alaska. Go North! The Rush is on!) ID#257148:
Nick@dobbie
G'day, yus, I saw your posts on Chilcoot mate, I'd crashed by then. Have reviewed them today. I love reading about the old prospectors and diggers. You right about fin-de-siécle western softness. Hard time, living in the bush. Producer up in Alaska has a hands on experience of what we're talking about. ( I will answer your Q later producer ) Our great-grandfathers thought little of it. NZ$ under a lot of pressure too now. Whatfor this yankeedamdollarsohigh for?

A couple of week ago I posted, in a most ham-fisted/tongued way, about the jeopardy of the Western/Christian Holidays imminent. THis is a weakness in the system, I was most interested it was picked up in two different analyses by Mike Sheller, and someone else ( apologies for forgettin yer handle ) one in the stars, and one by recent history.

Ain't nothing like a holiday, ---information systems working at minimal capacity-----for maximum disruption and flux.



Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:39
RJ U>(..... Nick .....) ID#411259:

You are right! I haven't checked the prices this evening. Broke through to the low of the year. I can see no support until $330, or until the next Russian press release, which will give us a 30 - 40 dollar day………up……. that is. Palladium seems to be getting the hint and is falling also. I would love to work up one of my pithy apocalyptic thingies about the fall and platinum, but there are to many climbers buried on those peaks and the rest clinging for purchase on this endless slope

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:38
Nick@C U>(Merry Christmas) ID#393224:
To all.

Buy your kids ( grandkids ) a one ounce gold coin for Christmas. Tell them they are not allowed to spend it until they are 21. They can then trade it for a new car or a year's tuition at a good college.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:31
RJ U>(..... Aurator .....) ID#411259:

Not a climber, no. Walked to the top of Mt. St. Helen's back when I was a kid and it still had a top. All my mountain climbing has been of the climbing into the ski lift variety. Yet, I am fascinated by the people who go through such suffering and pain to stand exhausted atop a mound for a few minutes knowing that they have just reached the halfway point and it is still a long way down.

There is a debate going on presently about the wisdom and the ethics of guided expeditions. Both Hall and Fischer were professional high altitude climbing guides who, for upwards of $65K per head, would escort clients to the summit. Many of these guided clients are accomplished mountaineers in their own right, but there are some who do not belong on that particular mountain. Above 26K feet is known as the Dead Zone, where hypoxia addles the brain and cognitive functions are shallow and not to be trusted. Even those who use supplemental oxygen suffer these effects. The mixture is thin and breathing supplemental oxygen at 29K feet is the same as no bottled gas at 26K feet. If you or I were flown to 26K feet and dropped off, we would die within minutes, not having spent the weeks of climatization necessary to reach a summit such as Everest.

I have learned that among climbers there is a certain aesthetic to be striven for; its less important that you reach the top than how you reach the top. These are the climbers, Like Ed Viesters, who summit without unnecessary aids. These are the poets of the mountains; these are the men and women who climb for the beauty and challenge and, ultimately, the ones who survive the try.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:27
Nick@C U>(Santa in a t shirt) ID#393224:
Nice Antipodean Christmas coming up. Temp here today @30C ( 86F ) . You could almost melt gold on some Xmas days here. Hope you antiAntipodeans are nice and cozy with the snow 10 feet deep outside. Auracious--a bit cooler where you is ,mate Speaking of cricket--I am proposing that Tasmania represent Oz. Only ones have given the S.A.ans a run for their money. N.Z. team can be the water boys. Did you see my posts re Klondike last night about this time. I get stuck into those and I am transported back 100 years--the incredible privations those guys/gals went through to get what we call our local coin dealer for. We are soft, mate. Most experts on Kitco wouldn't last a day diggin' fer the stuff they talk about. That's why the low prices won't last, mate. The stuff is danged hard to find and dig up. Half of the world's population have just realised that they shoulda bought MORE. They won't make the same mistake again. As soon as Asian currencies recover--LOOK OUT ABOVE!!!!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 02:06
Nick@C U>(Platinum anyone) ID#393224:
RJ-- half an hour after your post platinum 352 is a distant memory. You were talking spot were you not? Bart has it at 346.50. Look out belooooooooooow. Hope it doesn't drag you know what down with it.

G'day Auracious.

Mike Sheller -- re you question about buying gold nuggets. I love 'em. Just bought a .89 oz oddly shaped beauty for US$278 ( 10 % over spot ) . I'm beginning to think I got a good deal. The rock and mineral shops triple the spot sale price.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 01:54
aurator U>(above the clouds now) ID#257148:
RJ
I gather you are a mountain climber somewhere back there you talk about it, but I've not found it yet. Living in NZ it is difficult not to be aware of mountain climbing, Sir Ed Hillary has his picture on our local currency. A good friend of mine Bill Denz, lost his life in Patagonia a long time ago, he always knew that would be how it would end RIP.

Are those Canadian coins still redeemable at $310? sounds like ez $

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 01:35
RJ U>(..... Early Riser .....) ID#411259:

The low for the year for platinum is $352, which I think we hit in April. Watched PL bounce off $352 half a dozen times today. If it breaks below here, no telling how low it could go. It would seem that the $330 area in '91 and '92 would be the next target. We'll know in the next couple days if it will hold. I told my clients to look for $352 If it holds, I'm telling them to buy all they can. This ride is not over.

I read Into Thin Air as well as listened to the book on tape as read by the author. I highly recommend the tape. There is an intimate sense of urgency that the book does not fully convey. As for Ed Viesters, seems he summited Everest a fifth time this spring. Ed was the guy on the radio with Rob Hall the entire last day, and was involved in bringing a dead Taiwanese climber down the mountain. Ed was good friends with Rob Hall, and had successfully climbed K2 with Scott Fischer the year before. Ed summited about 2 weeks after the ill fated guided expeditions and came upon both Hall and Fischer on his ascent. He said his final farewells on the descent and he was a bit emotional describing the few minutes he spent with each of his fallen friends. Fischer's wife asked Ed if he could retrieve Scott's wedding ring if possible, but Ed didn't have the heart to disturb the bodies.

The IMAX film of the expedition will be released in March. Also, There will be a NOVA special to be aired February 24. The expedition this spring was unique in that Ed Viesters was constantly given cognitive tests to study the effects of high altitude climbing and oxygen deprivation. Seems this guy doesn't breath like the rest of us and they want to find out why. Ed hasn't even learned the results of the tests yet.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 01:31
Schippi U>(Fidelity Select Gold chart) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

Continued to scale Up this AM, as local bottom develops.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 01:29
oris U>(@Studio.R ... Chocolate is GOOD!!!...) ID#238422:
Studio.R, Sir, you tried to hire a wrong person,
this person hates chocolate, doctor told him
chocolate is bad, bad, bad... for health.
It's ME, who loves chocolate, it's ME!!!
Let me work for you, I am an exceptional
chocolate handler. I'll even quit drinking
if you let me be around chocolate!!!
Holly Cow, give me a chance..!!! PLEEEAASSSE?!?

Will work in candy shop on commission basis+tips.
Good night, will look for your offer tomorrow.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 01:03
HighRise U>(AlKahulik (Deflation)) ID#401460:

Gold doesn’t lie. Hard Assets leading the S&P. They can’t continue to diverge much longer IMHO. If we have deflation, I am not sure how long we will have to wait for Gold to return - when the US$ starts to deflate?
http://www.stockmaster.com/sm/trmf/G/GHAAX.html

It has been a $3 up and a $3 down day. I am tired.
Good Night All

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:58
Producer U>(Impasse) ID#226355:
Farfel-Thanks for the chat today. We are just too far apart. While your logic is good I do not believe that the premises for your scenario to occur are in the realm of possibility. A new gold paradigm is just not achievable ITRW. I have been experimenting with the alcohol based deoderant-applied internally.

Aurator- I will try and find the book for you tommorrow. If I may, Why are you selling Paradise? I was thinking of coming down with my over priced US dollars and buying a piece. Is my timing wrong

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:46
noah U>(JimRockford@Beamer) ID#39067:
Beamer; that was a most interesting Biblical reference....I never thought of it that way. I always figured God would go against the 'paper creators' and let his own creation ( gold ) go to the moon. You're not only my favorite Rockford Files character ( after Angel ) but also an astute thinker.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:36
Prometheus U>(President of Iran News Conference) ID#189273:
Anyone out there know of a site where all or part of last night's news conference can be read?

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:33
aurator U>(I wandered lonely as a cloud...looking for ancestors) ID#257148:
JTF
I know you gone to bed, and I might hang up soon, so there is a correlation with increasing sunspot activity? Ummm, that's increasing flux has an effect on the ants?......cherokee...this one's for you.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:32
AlKahulik U>(Deflation) ID#217243:
When you go outside and see the thermometer register 0F, you
say it's damn cold out. When you see gold go down under $300, you say
that it's major deflation. The IMF is going to have to hand out
alot more money to stop this burst deflation debt bubble. Gold
never lies.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:31
prisbrian U>(To LanMan-Monetary Control Act) ID#171240:
LanMan, are you still online? I have something I want you to read but I want to make sure you're still here.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:30
Ted U>(@ The End) ID#364147:
G'Night all~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:17
JTF U>(Gnite all! What a day -- overloaded my brain!) ID#57232:
Aurator: I could list the periods of the rising sunspot activity from 1900 or so. These periods seem to have a bullish effect on humans. The peaks, and periods of falling sunspot activity don't seem to do anyting significant.

This may be better than posting graphs, which may be hard to read.

I could also post the raw sunspot data if you would prefer that, and you could compare to the world market of your choice. Please let me know what you would like!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:16
TZADEAK* U>(@ M.E.OIL HEATING UP?) ID#372344:
In my previous posts I suggested that ARABS have recently been
uniting, ( witness the Islamic Conference in Iran Last week ) for no other reason IMHO but that they are unhappy with US protection in the
Gulf ( Keeping OIl prices Down! ) Tonight the State Dept. announced
that all US soldiers would be vaccinated againstANTHRAX, and that
the first to receive said vaccine are soldiers stationed in the Middle-East.
As I suggested last weelk to look for a new Bombing campaign to
GET the US soldiers out, tonight's annoucement tells me those
Bombs will likely contain ANTHRAX.Another interesting PR campaign
underway, is the spin being placed on the Talkswith the US the new
president of Iran has allegedly asked for. Iwas up the other night and listened to the said news conference, and I certainly did not get the impression that smoking the peace pipe was what he was after....
I got the impression that Iran views itself as THE regional power and
the talks would be aimed at removing the US soldiers from ARAB soil.


Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:16
STUDIO.R U>(@cherokee) ID#93232:
we must make clouds so that our ancestors may rest upon them. here it is late.

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:02
Ted U>(@ ROR) ID#364147:
I won't blow your cover---if you behave yourself....Was wondering where YOU were!

Date: Tue Dec 16 1997 00:01
aurator U>(Have you heard about the midnight rambler?) ID#257148:
JTF, have not read that book, but listened rapt to the BBC radio play of Hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy back in the 70's had it on tape. I Never go anywhere without a half of lager, some peanuts and a towel.
Can't help Nick the sharefinarator in Cairns, would if could. He is several thousand km away and across a large ditch. They even speak a different tongue over there, it's called 'strine, I think they learned it off the roos, eh Nick@C?

Sunspots JTF? you done it with sunspots? Lets, do some sleight of fingers, from 1900 to todaythat's about 100 years, periodicity of sunspots ( some cobwebby memory says 11 years? ) so from here in math gets this, approx 9 or 10 periods of intense spot activity affecting stock prices in past century? What are these time periods? I'd have to say that 1971/1972 must be there. So too, '87. hummm...

Are there any periods of non-correlation you have found? Where there is sunspot activity but the ants ( thats us ) just go about merrily on their way? I hope you will share more of your findings.

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