KITCO GOLD FORUM
1997-1999

index
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:56
cherokee @too-much-chaos-in-the-ether-to-continue>(@too-much-chaos-in-the-ether-to-continue) ID#344308:
sh!t--i give-up....
have no idea how that last one re-posted,
tried to post another.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:55
HighRise I can Sleep Now>(I can Sleep Now) ID#401460:
Well it looks like the World is going to be Ok.
HK 500+
JPN 150+
Gold is at 323 Therefore,
Tank full of GAS unchanged tomorrow!!
AND, The Tribe is on the Move
Good Night All

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:52
cherokee @paper-and-plastic---------------fiat population control mechanisms>(@paper-and-plastic---------------fiat population control mechanisms) ID#344308:
aurator--

i'm going to celebrate this moment by adding
8 more gold calls before the end of this month!

the pendulum has a date with the sellers of gold....
their fate is sealed, as the money will be squeezed from
the turnips who have wronged the noble-one and robbed it of
its' dignity. the lofty perch awaits the only one who has ever,
and ever could, secure it for perpetuity. let the scales be righted
for the better-ment of ALL people, including the sleepwalkers....


commodities should be exchanged for commodities, not for paper.
this paper only has the intrinsic value the idiots at the fed
ALLOW it to have,.... and the fools who accept their valuation.

the pm's are FIXING to rule......again.

a harsh winter approaches.....consider all things and their implications.
are you the care-free cricket ( grass-hopper ) , or the fully-stocked[sic]
ant? it IS a choice........make it care-fully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ants....

cherokee!; ) friend-of-the-wind----and-ant-------



cherokee!; )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:36
Lurker /////>(/////) ID#320102:
Dec S&P up 825 on Globex...Go figure!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:35
Charlie Chan @ can you believe this>(@ can you believe this) ID#334321:
Asia/Pacific
Australia
^AORD
^AORD
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
China
^SSEC
^SSEC
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Hong Kong
^HSI
^HSI
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
India
^BSESN
^BSESN
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Indonesia
^JKSE
^JKSE
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Japan
^N225
^N225
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Malaysia
^KLSE
^KLSE
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
New Zealand
^NZ40C
^NZ40C
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Pakistan
^KSE
^KSE
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Singapore
^SS1
^SS1
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
South Korea
^KS11
^KS11
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Sri Lanka
^CSE
^CSE
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Taiwan
^TWII
^TWII
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A
Thailand
^SETI
^SETI
N/A
0.00
N/A
N/A

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:35
HighRise HK>(HK) ID#401460:
HK 500+

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:32
cherokee @paper-and-plastic---------------fiat population control mechanisms>(@paper-and-plastic---------------fiat population control mechanisms) ID#344308:
aurator--

i'm going to celebrate this moment by adding
8 more gold calls before the end of this month!

the pendulum has a date with the sellers of gold....
their fate is sealed, as the money will be squeezed from
the turnips who have wronged the noble-one and robbed it of
its' dignity. the lofty perch awaits the only one who has ever,
and ever could, secure it for perpetuity. let the scales be righted
for the better-ment of ALL people, including the sleepwalkers....


commodities should be exchanged for commodities, not for paper.
this paper only has the intrinsic value the idiots at the fed
ALLOW it to have,.... and the fools who accept their valuation.

the pm's are FIXING to rule......again.

a harsh winter approaches.....consider all things and their implications.
are you the care-free cricket ( grass-hopper ) , or the fully-stocked[sic]
ant? it IS a choice........make it care-fully,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ants....

cherokee!; ) friend-of-the-wind----and-ant-------



cherokee!; )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:31
Nick sharefin@cairns.net.au>(sharefin@cairns.net.au) ID#386276:
EB
Thanks for your response would love to know your true logic
ahhh but I can only dream

Who cares about the pipe ------- pass the bucket over.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:30
The MacKenzie Brothers @ EB>(@ EB) ID#364321:
Watch them Canadian comments eh!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:30
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
panda : Your right, the big change has already occured. It doesn't really matter much if it continues tonight or next week. The die is cast and the markets are heading down.
I am going to turn in early tonight. I look forward to checking status tomorrow morning. Best of Luck to all of us.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:24
Éß Pipes>(Pipes) ID#2082:
And don't be passing the peace pipe without EB...damnit!

away...to make much peace
Éß

Donald, got the letter...2 DAYS!!...oh my! Better than that Canadian postal pony stuff... THANKS!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:23
Rod S. @ EB>(@ EB) ID#403159:
Make that ( . ) 50 cents

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:22
Rod Sterling @ EB>(@ EB) ID#403159:
You are making a big mistake to short gold my friend my friend my friend my friend my friend

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:20
Éß oh yeah.....>(oh yeah.....) ID#2082:
Gold down one box of cheese noodles... ( Kraft ) ( 50¢ )

away
Éß

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:18
shortTEXAN OSCILLATOR>(OSCILLATOR) ID#250327:
TO ALL:
SEE THIS LINK FOR INTERESTING CRASH PATTERNS.

http://www.marketscience.com/

DOWn SENG.........V
V
V

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:18
Éß Twilight Zone>(Twilight Zone) ID#2082:
What's with the postings. What's with the postings. What's with the postings. Tonight. Tonight. Tonight.

Nick ( Aussie ) - I was a Gold Bull ALL SUMMER. I have finally seen the light a few months back. I was too nervous/scared/BULL-headed ( because of this group ) to short gold. Now I am quite comfortable and I have made ALL ( and then some ) of my money back I lost this summer on the 'crap'. I LOVE gold!!! YES I DO!!! It feels and looks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOD! But...

It is a DOG!!

And I can finally see where it is going. I am keeping my shorts on ( well covered, mind you ) and I will make money on this deal. Gold will not be strong now. It can NOT be strong now. There is too much negativity surrounding it. I will not be burned and I will make more money and I WILL sleep soundly at night...period. I can buy back shorts faster than any rally can hurt me. Gold IS liquid. Glenn knows...eh

Gold is AWESOME...but now it is a DOG...

away...to feed the DOG
Éß

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:17
GOLDFINGER GOLD FIRMS GEARING UP>(GOLD FIRMS GEARING UP) ID#433171:
Arden, From the sources I know Monex a gold coin dealer is gearing up along with many other major coin dealers for something big. They are expanding like crazy and maybe they know something we don't. They are buying coins with some big money. I'm sure the physical gold your talking about leaving the warehouses could have something to do with that. In any case I'm backing up the truck here real soon for more gold stocks and physical. Maybe Friday.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:12
Notta goldBUG @ notta GOLDbug>(@ notta GOLDbug) ID#382159:
Dec. gold down .50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:09
Ted @ Panda + Aurator>(@ Panda + Aurator) ID#364147:
Panda ( re-Simpsons ) -I think we have finally found the indicator of our dreams ) Aurator: and I will take that pipe and have a puff...puff......

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:05
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Reify - I use Win95 and MS Office97.
I bring up the chart to copy on my explorer screen,
then press - Alt+Shift+Print screen. This takes a screen snapshot.
This I then paste ( Ctrl+V ) into MS Word97 and save as a html file.
This creates two files, a .gif and a .html.
Post the .gif file as this contains the chart.

If I have a series of charts made in MS Excell, I can save the series as a .html file and upload all the file thus producing a .html page with all the charts on it.

Here is a copy of my intraday Aussie SPI futures chart done like this.

To all :
I would seriously recommend an upgrade to Office97.
If you use Excell, Acess or Word constantly.
The new features in these progams are amazing.

I currently run about six databases under Access, three of them on a daily basis analysing our OZ markets.
Also watching options, futures, OS futures and options, plus daily movements within our own markets.
Access has the amazing ability to pick up an eod file and analyse it within minutes answering any type of question that you want.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:02
theSUBmariner @pass the fruit of truth>(@pass the fruit of truth) ID#374308:
id 33403

prescient AND pre-cognizant

golds'fixing'to'rock'n'roll'


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:02
GOLDFINGER RIGHT ON PANDA>(RIGHT ON PANDA) ID#433171:
I believe your scenario on this market is the way this game is going. The bear is alive and the market is in trouble no matter how you stack it up. The only advise is to get out now before you start seeing red ink. Thats my take.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:01
Silver @home>(@home) ID#289349:
WW - Where's that 50/60 cent an oz. jump in the price of silver that should be happening about now? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it happen, but in reality, i've about given up on ever getting any return on the metal i'm holding. Most of the money in the market now comes from regular peoples saving being invested in mutual funds. These people will not pull their money out and put it into metals. When and if the market crashes they'll lose every thing they have. In other words, when the market crashes, no one will have money to buy metals.
I have come to the conclusion that the majority of people are simply to ignorant believe anything other than what Dan Blather tells them on the nightly news. In otherwords, BA HUMBUG!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:01
aurator eight miles high>( eight miles high) ID#251168:
Cherokee heh wow eight multiple posts, is that a record or something? ;- ) ) you're dead right about not needing kellog, we are lucky to have your input and the other sages@kitco, I just have to fly like an eagle to understand what you write sometimes, but that's not a problem as i like our fine feathered friends and am happy to join them every day TED!
Passing pipe to you..



Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:00
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Ted -- You know about my indicator? In that case, you are well on your way to success! :- ) )

D.A. -- A plot? By the Chinese? Your out of your mind! :- ) ) :- ) )

Goodnight all, the Simpsons are on! I've got to get my latest info MFs from Homer! :- ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 23:00
DAK @ my children>(@ my children) ID#262174:
Hello my children

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:59
HighRise HK/China>(HK/China) ID#401460:
D.A.: This was talked about today on CNBC as a posibility, China would absorb the HK currency. I would assume they would than have HK's reserves also. Kind of automatically voids the HK Brit/China Agreements.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:55
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @China Conspiracy>(@China Conspiracy) ID#431263:
HERR DA! What's so wild about that? I believe what you say not only is possible--IT'S INEVITABLE!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:55
cherokee @do-do-dodo---do-do-dodo----do-do-dodo--->(@do-do-dodo---do-do-dodo----do-do-dodo---) ID#344308:
hot damn---

incredible! ......history is made again!


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:55
arden ardengold@msn.com>(ardengold@msn.com) ID#201238:

Hello! something is up. Yesterday Comex Gold Warehouse stocks fell 33,850 oz. Today they fell another 33,738 oz. to 355,412 oz. This is someone taking delivery of gold. Physically taking it out of the warehouse. In the past when the eligible stock fell to around 200,000 oz, someone wrote more contracts against the 'registered' gold on deposit or else deposited more gold. Now are we seeing something different? Is this the crack in the derivative market? I don't know, but it should be watched very carefully.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:54
Ted @ Panda + ain't it a small world>(@ Panda + ain't it a small world) ID#364147:
Panda: My small satellite dish just started showing Simpsons re-runs every night from 8-9 ( AST ) ...DOOOOOH

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:52
D.A. a.wild.conspiratorial.thought>(a.wild.conspiratorial.thought) ID#7568:
All:

Anyone consider that perhaps the mainland Chinese are selling the HK dollar short so they can come in and save the day? Maybe this is the ploy to remove that nasty bit of capitalism and freedom which must scare the h&*l out of the head politicos. Perhaps the HK dollar will simply be retired in favor of the mainland currency ( whose name I can never spell )

And to all a good night.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:51
Mike Hargrove @ 7th inning stretch>(@ 7th inning stretch) ID#340342:
Lets go boys!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:51
panda @?>(@?) ID#30116:
Ted -- To avoid confusion in the markets, I have developed a propriatary indicator. Now don't tell anyone about this, but I call it the Homer Simpson indicator. All you have to do, is watch the Simpsons! And you'll know what to do! Dooooooooooohhhhh! :- ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:51
Schippi schippi@geocities.com>(schippi@geocities.com) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

UP, UP And Away!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:43
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
EBN has H.K. up 11. Let's not get carried away here folks! No market goes straight down or straight up. Don't forget these things called 'bear market rallies'. Besides, if you were in the politicos shoes over there, what would you do? Besides doing all of the wrong things, of course. Wouldn't you seek short term solutions and quick fixes to get out of this jam? Just a thought.

It will take more than a little volatility to get gold going, IMHO. It will take sufficient interest by the masses to overcome the 'friction' of the forces keeping gold down. In other words, obvious signs of inflation or worse. There will have to be screaming headlines in the papers to wake this MF crowd up. Otherwise? They'll be buying the dip soon. It will be when the realization of no more new highs that will cause the doubting to begin. When this realization occurs, the next thought will be to wait and 'get out even'. When that fails ( Does this sound familiar? ) ... One to two years later, along with half of your money...

Otherwise known as a grinding bear market. Nice, slow, torture, for, your,..., wallet. And don't forget them bear market rallies, they're important for getting your hope up so you can get screwed, ooops, I mean clawed, again.

Come on dippies! Have I got a 'cheap' stock for you! Just hold this puppy, errr, stock and don't sell it. You'll be rich when you retire. :- ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:41
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Tolerant
Like for gold we must wait for this to unfold.

EB
Watch your shorts
This turn in 'stuff was written in the charts.
So is AU's next move
Time will tell us who is wrong
Long gold & short stuff.
My profits are running strong
Puts purchased at the top have excellent risk/reward ratio
Some up 400% and leaping, bounding and roaring away.

Picked up 20 Dec SPX680 puts yesterday @ $15 each
My $330 lottery ticket.
SPX to 550 =$10,000 per contract X 20 = $200,000
Excellent risk/reward for peanuts.

My SPX850 puts bought Wednesday last week are well positioned.
So to I think my Gold calls bought 3 days ago
Same with my Silver calls bought last night.

ka....ching....


George Cole
These new lows look like profits to me.

NASDAQ
Broad Market Overview
http://www.bigcharts.com/reports/bigmarkets/broad/nasdaq/today/
Advancers: 2,947   ( 23.26% )
Decliners: 3,292   ( 25.98% )
Unchanged: 6,430   ( 50.75% )

Advance/Decline Ratio:  0.90
1,359 new highs and 1,199 new lows

Volume: 870,981,400 shares


NYSE
Broad Market Overview
http://www.bigcharts.com/reports/bigmarkets/broad/nyse/today/
Advancers: 1,031   ( 32.61% )
Decliners: 1,518   ( 48.01% )
Unchanged: 613   ( 19.39% )

Advance/Decline Ratio:  0.68
199 new highs and 48 new lows

Volume: 717,465,700 shares

AMEX
Broad Market Overview
http://www.bigcharts.com/reports/bigmarkets/broad/amex/today/
Advancers: 298   ( 33.48% )
Decliners: 338   ( 37.98% )
Unchanged: 254   ( 28.54% )

Advance/Decline Ratio:  0.88
49 new highs and 18 new lows

Volume: 36,177,800 shares

Away to see the charts...............

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:41
Reify @sitcom.co.il>(@sitcom.co.il) ID#396137:
NICK@Aussi- would appreciate your sending me an email explanation of
how you were able to make copy of the charts posted today, from Quote-Com
Have tried unsuccessfully. Also where you obtained candlestick. Thanks
in advance for details.

All- In checking various technicals, the gold stocks looks like they
should go up another few days, to a week or two, but then could correct,
as happens in any trend. Just threw that in as a warning not to get faked
out for the long termers, but to be aware, for those who are trading.

Yesterday an analyst on CNBC tv, from Hong Kong, gave a stock that looks
interesting CREAF - check out the chart on this one.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
cherokee @sub-atomic-level>(@sub-atomic-level) ID#344308:
how many lost how much today?

the smoke signals have been spread far
and wide since the future revealed itself
for a breif instant right here on kitco!
for an instant the gate was breached, and
pre-cognizance was witnessed as it occured.
sollog? hell no.....who needs a sollog when
you have your very own cherokee?!; )

8 days and counting.....well, maybe we should
stop counting after TOMORROW!!!!!!!

cherokee!; ) revealer-of-the-future-----today-----


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Tolerant
Like for gold we must wait for this to unfold.

EB
Watch your shorts
This turn in 'stuff was written in the charts.
So is AU's next move
Time will tell us who is wrong
Long gold & short stuff.
My profits are running strong
Puts purchased at the top have excellent risk/reward ratio
Some up 400% and leaping, bounding and roaring away.

Picked up 20 Dec SPX680 puts yesterday @ $15 each
My $330 lottery ticket.
SPX to 550 =$10,000 per contract X 20 = $200,000
Excellent risk/reward for peanuts.

My SPX850 puts bought Wednesday last week are well positioned.
So to I think my Gold calls bought 3 days ago
Same with my Silver calls bought last night.

ka....ching....


George Cole
These new lows look like profits to me.

NASDAQ
Broad Market Overview
http://www.bigcharts.com/reports/bigmarkets/broad/nasdaq/today/
Advancers: 2,947   ( 23.26% )
Decliners: 3,292   ( 25.98% )
Unchanged: 6,430   ( 50.75% )

Advance/Decline Ratio:  0.90
1,359 new highs and 1,199 new lows

Volume: 870,981,400 shares


NYSE
Broad Market Overview
http://www.bigcharts.com/reports/bigmarkets/broad/nyse/today/
Advancers: 1,031   ( 32.61% )
Decliners: 1,518   ( 48.01% )
Unchanged: 613   ( 19.39% )

Advance/Decline Ratio:  0.68
199 new highs and 48 new lows

Volume: 717,465,700 shares

AMEX
Broad Market Overview
http://www.bigcharts.com/reports/bigmarkets/broad/amex/today/
Advancers: 298   ( 33.48% )
Decliners: 338   ( 37.98% )
Unchanged: 254   ( 28.54% )

Advance/Decline Ratio:  0.88
49 new highs and 18 new lows

Volume: 36,177,800 shares

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:40
Reify @sitcom.co.il>(@sitcom.co.il) ID#396137:
NICK@Aussi- would appreciate your sending me an email explanation of
how you were able to make copy of the charts posted today, from Quote-Com
Have tried unsuccessfully. Also where you obtained candlestick. Thanks
in advance for details.

All- In checking various technicals, the gold stocks looks like they
should go up another few days, to a week or two, but then could correct,
as happens in any trend. Just threw that in as a warning not to get faked
out for the long termers, but to be aware, for those who are trading.

Yesterday an analyst on CNBC tv, from Hong Kong, gave a stock that looks
interesting CREAF - check out the chart on this one.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:35
E Plunk Oh,not again>(Oh,not again) ID#220126:
I SUK

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:34
Derrick @stability>(@stability) ID#271149:
Hang Seng bouncing around like crazy, and gold calmly down $0.30. The best comment I've seen about this is over at Steven Kaplan's 'Goldbug' site
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/4915/index.html
where he talks about changing deck chairs on the Titanic. Anyway, at least now we get to see how good 'they' really are at chrisis management.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:34
GOLDFINGER COMPTON SHAW>(COMPTON SHAW) ID#433171:
Panda, It's a tid bit of information. I thought the same thing you did when I read it.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:32
Jim Leyland Alou>(Alou) ID#253218:
Nice shot buddy!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:32
Woodchucker @ Oral>(@ Oral) ID#235159:
DOOOH go GoLd

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:31
aurator just having a look...>(just having a look...) ID#251168:
TED weren't me that sold NZ paper, all sold months ago.

All This a.m. you coulda been forgiven thinking it was armageddon in NZ by the hysteric tones of the journalists reporting on the Meltdown Crash, and using a dozen inflammatory but unthinking similar epithets.
Naturally, with NZ market opening first ( and containing a massive 0.2% of the world's equity market ) it is both vulnerable and fragile. As mentioned in a previous post, the NZSE is about 45% ( greater now ) off its record highs of 1987. Actually yesterday's close was touted as the highest close since 1987.


Our NZ financial journalists would understand less than 10% of what goes on a kitco ( a little less than me! )

Nick love the Jabberstocky,

aurator

a sneaky post while at work ...

i shall be back tonite

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:30
Peter @Hang Seng>(@Hang Seng) ID#225157:
Now down 68.67. No make it down 26.27. No make it down 7.99. Now up 10.88

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:30
Ted @ Panda>(@ Panda) ID#364147:
Glad he confuses someone else.......

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:29
Oral @Alou>(@Alou) ID#241206:
You just put a fork in me...DOH!

how much wood can a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood...damn woodchuckers...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:27
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Now yahoo says Hong Kong -23 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:27
HighRise SELL>(SELL) ID#401460:
HK down again boy that didn't last long!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:25
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Now back to Hon Kong 130 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:25
sig sig@rem>(sig@rem) ID#287389:
Ted:

I'm honored! HA.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:24
panda @What?>(@What?) ID#30116:
C.V. Compton Shaw -- ¿ ¢?

Translation -- Left? Right? Up? Down? What is it?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:24
HighRise HK>(HK) ID#401460:
Time to buy HK up 200

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:23
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
I just checked yahoo and it says Hong Kong up 160 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:20
Woodchucker @Alou>(@Alou) ID#235159:
Alou suks.go oral

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:18
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @GLOBAL MARKET MELTDOWN>( @GLOBAL MARKET MELTDOWN) ID#431263:
If anyone doubts just how pervasive the current market meltdown is jsut take a look at the international markets page of Yahoo! Almost all markets worldwide are down anywhere from 3% to 6%! It is a sea of negative red numbers from Asia to Latin America to Europe and the US! Such coordinated and sympathetic moves are almost always a sign of a change of trend and a change in market sentiment! THIS WILL BE THE MAJOR ECONOMIC STORY OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY before it's finally bottomed out--yes, as important, if not more important than the 1929 stock market crash and the Great Depression! No nation on earth will be spared! This is the BIG ONE that will permanently convince the world that GOLD really
IS money! Everything else is a worthless paper promise!


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:15
Ted @ SIG>(@ SIG) ID#364147:
SIG you are the stock symbol for my favorite electric utility!! and no.as wacked out as I am, Sable Island is a bit of a stretch even for me...It's way to the south of here.... Scaterie Island ( 8 miles out ) is more my speed...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:14
panda @PLEASE!>(@PLEASE!) ID#30116:
Communism evolved from states that had a central ruling authority to begin with. Typically this was a King. In America of old, prior to the mass industrialization of the country, most people were, essentially, self employed in their own businesses.

Communism was given birth to as an escape from despotism. A sad tale for sure. How pitiful to travel from one form of tyranny to another.

America was not saved from Communism by FDR. Arguably, the socialist state that we call Amerika today, is his legacy aided and abetted by misguided fools and a few who weren't. Throw in a dose of class envy and some interference by the government to 'make things better' and you have the modern welfare state. This to, shall collapse.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:13
JIN SORRY ..OUT OF STOCKS!HERE THEY ARE..>(SORRY ..OUT OF STOCKS!HERE THEY ARE..) ID#206358:
TRY : http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/5/nseas02.html!O .K?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:11
JIN CHRISTMAS SALE....ANYONE?>(CHRISTMAS SALE....ANYONE?) ID#206358:
ALL,
SALE....SALE...SALE...ANYONE?
http://www.asia1.com.sg/biztimes/5/nseas02.html
HT!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:10
GOLDFINGER ACCORDING TO MARTY ARMSTRONG>(ACCORDING TO MARTY ARMSTRONG) ID#433171:
Japan is the key. If their market goes at these levels so does every other market the world over. We will see, however for my money all my stocks have been sold early this morning with the exception of my gold stocks. Risk is fun if you like to gamble. I'm not in that camp. I say lock in your profits now and be happy before they ask you for your shirt. Greed is a funny thing your never happy until you find out later after the dust settles what you could of held on to. I always found when you think something is priced to high it usually is and this market is out of sight. Sooner rather than later we all have to learn the hard way. In order to make money you have to know how to lose it first then hopefully you learned by your mistakes. In my own experience I rarely find anyone who has made money over paying for any asset. Real estate in the late 80's is a great example how the crowd lost money. And now the stock market with most people still have hope in a market thats already fully priced. Big mistake and I know of millionares who lost it all in real estate hoping for the market to keep going. Winners know when to leave the game.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:08
sig sig@swim>(sig@swim) ID#287389:
Ted:

did ya ever think of sailing that canoe of yours out to sable island? that itd be quite a paddle!........ just kidding!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:08
steady correction>(correction) ID#285233:
sig- Communism did not develop because of social injustice!! That is an old BS I heard from the Commies while I lived my early life under that system.
It was planned and supported by the same people running your Central Banks, i.e. one-worlders. That total control did not work out as they thought since it supressed the market forces too much so they let it go. Now you get a lot out of free market economics for social engineering and you still get the control; just look around.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:06
vronsky Homestake Mining Will Reach New All Time Heights... - bb fisher>(Homestake Mining Will Reach New All Time Heights... - bb fisher) ID#426220:
Internationally acclaimed Technical Analyst has performed another insightful study destined to be called THE Homestake Mining Prophecy. His analysis exudes incisive thinking, and is expressed with great clarity:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/fisher1001.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:06
HighRise HK>(HK) ID#401460:
HK down 175+
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:05
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Nick: Sound advice.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 22:05
JIN WW,TED,.....ALLEN,..........>(WW,TED,.....ALLEN,..........) ID#206358:
TED AND ALL,

Copy from one site,interesting...Asia Focus -- Hong Kong to be put through the rack in currency war

October 23 1997 17:18 GMT

Thursday has been the bloodiest day yet in the battle between Hong Kong
monetary officials and currency speculators. Officials are adamant they will
keep their currency's peg to the US dollar but InterMoney believes economic
carnage may force a defeat for Hong Kong.



The battle over the Hong Kong dollar reached a climax today as the island's
interest rates soared to a record high, wiping 10% off the island's share
market and billions of dollars off stock values around the globe.

Currency speculators are trying to force the HKMA to surrender control over
its currency, which for the last 14 years has been pegged to the US dollar. So
far both sides are standing their ground but the pain may be getting too much
for Hong Kong.

The main weapon the HKMA has is the power to raise interest rates, making
it too expensive for traders to keep borrowing then selling its currency. And
officials used the blunt instrument with a vengeance today, letting overnight
lending rates soar to 300%, from yesterday's 6%; and the interbank lending
rate rise to 50%, from just over 10%.

This helped the Hong Kong dollar to a temporary burst of strength against its
US counterpart before wave after wave of selling once again sapped it.

The HKMA could do the same thing again and again. Officials are quite
confident they can win the war, whatever the cost. In an attempt at
intimidation, Hong Kong and China announced they had over $220bn in hard
currency reserves between them, a large enough war chest to keep buying
however many Hong Kong dollars speculators want to throw at them.
Coupled with rate rises, this arsenal is far more than the traders can put up.

But speculators are determined to fight their corner. Traders know that the
Hong Kong dollar is highly overvalued. John Davitte, IDEA's emerging market
analyst, believes a fair exchange rate is nine dollars to the US dollar -- the rate
is currently closer to seven Hong Kong dollars. So both sides have a great
deal of ammunition, which means the war could drag on for three to four
months, and maybe more.

But the island is the most vulnerable area to interest-rate changes in the whole
of Asia, if not the world, and will break under the strain of rates this high. The
economy is dominated by financial and real-estate firms, neither of which can
withstand the pressure of such a monetary policy.

It looks as if the Hong Kong stock market -- around 40% of which consist of
property-related shares -- will once again turn into a bloodbath tomorrow.
From today's close just above 10,000 points, many fund managers believe the
key Hang Seng index could tumble further in coming days to 8,000.

At the end of the day, interest rates cannot be sustained at these levels,
Davitte says, And to surrender the peg is not a tragedy. He believes: The
risk of a devaluation is rising all the time -- something has got to give.

If the HKMA does give up the dollar peg it will have two main options, he
thinks. The first would be to let the Hong Kong dollar float and let the market
decide its value.

The alternative, and one that looks increasingly credible, is for the HKMA to
tie its unit with the Chinese yuan, a far cheaper currency. This would give
Beijing a political advantage. After taking control of the island just over three
months ago, China has been exhorted by foreign leaders to allow the island its
own separate economic culture. A closer currency link, and the need to
restore stability, would give president Jiang Zemin just the right excuse to take
greater control of the islands.

Whoever wins, the war is unlikely to be short. Meanwhile the Hong Kong
stock market is ripe for more falls. Business on the island, already feeling the
squeeze of higher rates, is likely to grind to a halt. It may be bitter winter for
the people of Hong Kong.

singapore STI,KLSE,...BOTH DOWN 2% TO 3% NOW!..HARD DAY AHEAD!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:59
steady MASSSUICIDE>(MASSSUICIDE) ID#285233:
Shouln't HSI be running by now Mass suicide

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:58
Greg WindyLake>(WindyLake) ID#431216:
Increasingly it looks like this bottom in gold
and silver will take the form of a flat.This
could mean more tests to the downside but
they look solid at recent support.Hope silver
supports at 4.95 holds ...will watch and wait!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:58
Ted @ WW>(@ WW) ID#364147:
WW: You will soon find out...........

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:58
sig sig@home>(sig@home) ID#287389:
WW:

No question. Communism developed out of economic and social injustice. Its a sad track on the way to a deadend. That's why China's dangerous.
I don't want to drag this out, but it's high time leadership in this country begins to plan for the future. Its seems they are continuously focused on the blame game. One thing is true, Democrats and Republicans need each other more than most people realize. Meantime, time marches on.

By the way, I acknowledge Roosevelt's contribution....both of them.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:57
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Be careful in what you wish for... You just might get it.

WW -- Is not every issue of the day a 'crisis' with this administration? Child care is a 'silent crisis', health care was another crisis, and now global warming ( which has not been proven to exist ) is another crisis. Then again, with AlGore ( run together intended ) stating that El Nino was caused by global warming, what can you expect?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:56
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
What's up with Hang Seng? It shows no change.

Japan looks to have broken 17000. This is big time trouble.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:56
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Thought it might be appropiate to post this letter here. It has just been emailed to my brother who wants to buy our OZ market today.
One thing you must remember Glen, is that we have now changed trend.
All the major global indices that have been at all time highs have now confirmed that the trend has changed. Interest rates and Bonds confirm this.
Remember the adages
Don't buck the trend
Stay with the trend
The trend is your friend
As you have noticed in the past trends take time to unfold.
This last up trend has lasted intact from Feb95. 2 1/2 years.
The previous down trend lasted from Feb94 to Feb95.
The concept of buying in here when this new downtrend has just started, is not only dangerous,
but down-right foolhardy.
To try and pre-guess the bottom of this fallout is out of the league of 99.99% of all investors.
I would not even listen to a broker's comments at this moment, as they were encouraging the masses to buy only yesterday.
This market must be allowed to unfold as it should over a period of time.
Trends are made up of long periods of time, not of one day, but many months.
The only thing that could possibly cause a change to this long term downtrend would be a very quick down-thrust to unbelievable lows.
In otherwords a crash.
We either get a crash now or a longer term bear market.
There are only two choises now that the trend has been confirmed - short down or long down.
Do not try to catch this market, you will just lose at every turn till the trend changes
The bottom could well be six months away.

Read this twice, print it out and put it on the wall.
And remember, the trend is your friend and it has turned down.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:53
Ted @WW>(@WW) ID#364147:
Sorry dude,left ya out in the cold....Hello ( What ) ....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:53
Barney @MN>(@MN) ID#260194:
Do you want to see a lot of RED?

Click on: http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Scroll down to Asia.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:52
WW @HK>(@HK) ID#18970:
TED What did Jin say?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:52
Ted @ Hepcat +WW>(@ Hepcat +WW) ID#364147:
Sorry Hep,missed yer earlier post @ me....yeah, yer really under my skin,don't know if I'll be able ta sleep tonight ( HAHAHAHAHA ) ....I luv you man ( yeah, I know,don't try to co-opt me ) ....I get a special thrill every time you mention my name---You must know some very influential people ( I'm still rollin on the floor after hearin that one ( thanx Blutarsky ) HAHAHA

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:51
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @ THE PRIVATEER>(@ THE PRIVATEER) ID#431263:
HERR BUCKLER!! Must congratulate you on your fine magazine and web site. It's one of the finest on the net!! Must also congratulate you on your 20:54 post this evening. As usual you have precisely and eloquently described the self-serving diatribe of those who have vested interests in preserving the fiat money system at all costs! As you make painfully clear--THE SYSTEM IS NOT SOUND!! And those who continually and forcefully keep telling us that IT IS are doing so for one and only one reason--TO SAVE THEIR OWN ARSCHES before we can save ours! Anybody who can read a technical chart can clearly see that gold has bottomed in Aussie dollars and Swiss Francs and IS CURRENTLY BOTTOMING in J-Yen and US $! This is why sites such as yours and Kitco's ARE ABSOLUTELY VITAL if the average joe with money invested in these highly volatile markets is to have even a ghost of a chance of beating the Street!! A tip of the cheesehead hat to you, to Bart, to Vronsky, to G. Cole and to Kaplan! Without you I would be at the mercy of Louis Yukaiser, Lou Dobbs and my own emotional intuition! Wiedersehen, mein Freund! Und viele dank! By the way, the McClellan Oscillator and Summation Index has been telegraphing the coming bear for the past six months! Perhaps you'd consider posting it at your fine websites! I have found these two indicators to be the most reliable and prescient technical indicators available. They have never failed to get me IN NEAR THE TOP and OUT NEAR THE BOTTOM! Can't figure out why no one bothers to consult them! To busy netsurfin' I guess.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:51
The Major @Americans >(@Americans ) ID#372425:
Sig:Welcome to America.........

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:50
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
That was funny Charles. I started coughing and couldn't stop. It should open right around now.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:48
IDT IDT>(IDT) ID#228128:
Nikkei see-sawing, now down 178, and breaking below 17000. Indonesia and Hong Kong show no chage. Did they declare a holiday?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:47
CHARLES @THE SLIDE CONTINUES>(@THE SLIDE CONTINUES) ID#288229:
I've been watching my yahoo portfolio this evening. Nikki down 181
Singapore down 89 It would seem by now Hong Kong would be open. Has everyone jumped out of windows there.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:44
IDT IDT@home>(IDT@home) ID#228128:
Nick: You must be a fan of Tolkien. One of his characters frequently referenced my precious.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:44
WW @SIG>(@SIG) ID#18970:
There is nothing wrong with these great companies. However, without FDR's New Deal it is in question whether they would have had a free society within which to succeed. Further, collective bargaining and the gains made by workers through organized labor allowed for the creation of a middle class here ( to buy goods and services ) . When you look at history this gave rise to the middle class which gave the country the economic and social fiber to basically defeat most of Communism. Shouldnt we grant the same advantages to the workers in other economies so they can succeed and share in the fruits of their labors through collective bargaining and democracy. If this is not done we may find that Communism, or the like,is not as moribund as we now complacently think and are told.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:43
IDT IDT@home>(IDT@home) ID#228128:
D.A.: The figure of 8000 tonnes of gold shorts mentioned here on Kitco comes from an article by Frank Veneroso published in the Gold Newletter ( James Blanchard ed. ) . Veneroso argues that the 14 members of the LMBA under report their leasing activities and swaps and that others besides this group are involved in the gold leasing and swaps ( central bank deposits ) . He claims to have identified 22 additional banks involved in swaps, e.g. Deustche Bank and Swiss Bank. These other players add to the pile of shorts which by his estimate ( based on a number of assumptions because of the shadowy activities of the banks and groups involved ) adds to 8000 tonnes.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:41
Ted @ Hepcat>(@ Hepcat) ID#364147:
You got alot of em bro!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:39
Ted @ JIN>(@ JIN) ID#364147:
Thanks JIN,your e-mail just arrived and I appreciate getting a first-hand account of what is happening in your area but it doesn't sound good---does it.....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:36
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Fast Track, Child/Day Care, Computer Terrorism, Greenhouse/Environment, yada, yada, yada:

Anything but dealing with the economy and markets is the talking head/political play of the day for Mr. Clinton


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:34
sig sig@production=profit>(sig@production=profit) ID#287389:
WW:

Work is work; the more of it the better. When the politics changes, everyone benefits. Continental American culture is ripe for advance.
Same european background, including native american. Political philosophy of Democratic Party and organized labor is too slow to advance. GOP and Wall St. types are just as backward. Give them credit though, they have managed to get us to where we are without looseing the lead. Somewhere a synthesis of the two philosophies is forming. Continental economic market system evolution will be part of the change. Workers rights and profit motive will be a part of new era.

Isn't the Dow Jones tough. It's interesting to view the the 30 industrials. No one else in the world can match these companies. Just a few that come to mind. Catipiller, GM, Exxon, GE, IBM, P&G [made$1B this quarter] ........etc.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:33
JIN TED ...DING...DONG ..CHECK YOUR MAIL BOX!>(TED ...DING...DONG ..CHECK YOUR MAIL BOX!) ID#206358:
TED,
Thailand sawatdeekarp stock open today....emmmmmm,..no comment!Hong kong...em..MOR GAN THAI...dare to view!?
choke dee mark!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:27
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Ranji-Istand corrected, I was working off memory. Thank you.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:25
HighRise Red Friday >(Red Friday ) ID#401237:
Looks like another RED day-everything is down.
DOW 830 ?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:25
Ranji @NY>(@NY) ID#35783:
A clarification: From the Sept issue of Gold Newsletter, the Gold Short postion is belived to be 2000 tonnes. The outstanding Gold loans from Central Banks, according to Frank Verseno is at ( or more than ) 8000 tonnes.
These are two different stats. This info was a surprise to the CB's themselves!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:14
hey Ted finished that job yet?>(finished that job yet?) ID#40496:

Ted - here is what my superiors just passed down for me to
post:

Dow to 8300 by 10/23/97
Gold to 310 by 10/23/97

Oh wait, that's the old one. Here's the update:

Dow to 8300 by 10/24/97
Gold to 310 by 10/24/97

Sorry for the mix-up.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:10
Lurker China next?>(China next?) ID#320102:
South Korea DOWN 3.10%. US to the rescue?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:10
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
The drive to stabalize mkts tonite will be vigorous and nearly universal. This is why when it bursts it will be monumental. I think a little leak is developing in the bubble.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:02
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
Bill Buckler: I think most people confuse the economy ( some are sound, some are not ) with the financial system ( a house of cards, worldwide )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:01
WW @SIG>(@SIG) ID#18970:
AGREED/ as long as their labor is on or has some guarantee to have as many rights as our oraginized labor free trade is good. This way it is not a one way street ie we buy their cheap products with our lesser earnings as workers there work for less and only capital benefits. When capital can flow freely in the international mkt to not create imbalances it is necessary that its corrollary ie labor rights flow freely internationally to ensure balance and that a rising std of living in 3rd world countries which means buying more from US. The Reagan trade policy of let capital flow but be damned with labor is the root cause of the coming collapse and depression. ( and i voted for him twice ) When the depression occurs progrssivism will reign hopefully soon enough to ensure peace and put into the graveyard what was started in 1980 in both a cultural and political sense.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 21:01
Bill Buckler @Oz market slump>(@Oz market slump) ID#257234:
Aussie market getting hammered - down 73 ( 2.8% ) after the first hour of trade. Gold is up $A 13 over the past two days, obviously due to a swan dive on the poor old Oz-Bob. Chart looks very interesting. You can take a look at it on my $A-$US comparison page at
http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/twogold.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:59
Peter @NIKKEI>(@NIKKEI) ID#225157:
Oh well Nikkei up 7.79 now.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:58
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
NZ down 159 ( 6.1% )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:54
Bill Buckler capt@the-privateer.com>(capt@the-privateer.com) ID#257234:
Have you noticed that it doesn't matter who the media talk to, Rubin, Howard from Oz, any of the Asian finance ministers, and most of the financial talking heads everywhere, the response is always the same:

Don't worry about a thing, the FUNDAMENTALS are sound

Are they?

This is from DBC quoting the Hong Kong Financial Secretary yesterday

Financial Secretary Donald Tsang told reporters he was not worried at all about the market drop and that Hong Kong's economy remains
fundamentally robust.

Our companies are still making good profits, the Associated Press quoted him as saying. They are turning in good dividends for the
shareholders. ... I don't think it is a matter for people to panic about.

Of course, it is precisely the fundamentals which are anything but sound.
I'm busy working on the next issue of The Privateer http://www.the-privateer.com addressing just this point. Just ask yourself this by way of an entree. How the hell can we have 10% daily market swings, short term rates as high as 500%, and a fully-fledged, no holds barred, gut wrenching PANIC in what has for decades been universally acclaimed as THE capitalist bastion of Asia,
if the fundamentals were sound?

They are not sound in Hong Kong, they are not sound in Asia, and they are not sound anywhere else.

All markets depend on the viability of currency. All currencies depend on the viability of the U.S. Dollar. The U.S. Dollar depends on the perception of Americans and foreigners alike that it is truly a safe haven.

So far, that perception is holding, as witness the plunge in US bond yields yesterday. But this is an exceptional shear, stocks and bonds going in opposite directions. The initial danger is that Americans have awakened to the realisation that events outside their borders actually have the potential to affect them. Stand by for even more volatile times ahead.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:52
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
Student: Japan opened at 16863, now at 17074. Bora, Bora = Attack!, Attack! ( or something close to it )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:47
HighRise Margin Calls>(Margin Calls) ID#401237:
I wonder at what point margin call intensity reaches the critical level where there is no more money to cover the calls. It would be interesting to see what E-Trade or Schwab's margin call activity is. Does anyone have access to that kind of info. As the Markets backtrack, with people buying the dips and covering margin calls at the same time, this Paradigm is going to hit the wall hard. Back in August when the Markets began to dip/fail I was starting to feel the pinch - I got out in good shape; but those who have stayed in must find themselves at that point right now. The markets are back down at that level and if they have buying the dips they have to feel the grip on the ole you no whats. Excuse me ladies. One really has to watch this e-mail thing it is very easy to miss communicate

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:46
sig sig@we're all Americans>(sig@we're all Americans) ID#287389:
WW:

With all the turmoil in far east asia, wouldn't you think it wise to extend NAFTA to Chile, and ultimately to the rest of C&S America?
After all, USA does not exist in a vacuum, and these folks are our natural trading partners. Loosely protected capital/economic markets can exist, provided they change with the times.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:45
Donald @ChinaQuandry>(@ChinaQuandry) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/23/z0009_87.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:43
6pak Startup's Activities @ Microsoft & Venture Capital>(Startup's Activities @ Microsoft & Venture Capital) ID#335190:
October 23, 1997
Microsoft woos wary venture industry

MENLO PARK, Calif. ( Reuters ) - Despite increasing scrutiny of its business methods, Microsoft Corp. remained on the offensive this week as it busily wooed Silicon Valley venture capitalists who normally fund its rivals. It was a little odd having these two groups of people in the same room together, because frankly it is true that the VCs
( venture capitalists ) are financing a lot of companies that are the thorn in Microsoft's side and they ( Microsoft ) either acquire, destroy or assimulate them ( the startups ) , one investor said.

It's always fun to cavort with the Evil Empire, said one of the attendees, speaking on condition of anonymity, referring to the oft-cited antagonist in the Star Wars movies.

The Microsoft executives said applicants would need to provide information on their businesses and the degree to which they intended to use Microsoft products, a requirement investors said could also give Microsoft a greater insight into a startup's activities than may be prudent for its investors.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/INTERNET-MICROSOFT.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:38
Tw @FAST TRACK>(@FAST TRACK) ID#31870:
WHY ARE THEY CLEARLY OBSSESSED WITH FAST TRACK? Why not pass it next year or the year after. Whats wrong with a pro longed debate? Democracy anybody?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:35
student kitco - after hours >(kitco - after hours ) ID#289318:
It is now 09:30AM in japan. Does anyone know how their stock market opened? And please, what does Bora Bora mean?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:34
Donald @HongKongJr.>(@HongKongJr.) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/23/z0009_87.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:34
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Silver Chart showing new up trend being created.
Patience my precious.
Patience

Little by little the acorn said
And the mighty oak raised its noble head.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:32
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
All the Fools were chattin' and havin' a bash.
Toutin' IOMG when the watchword was 'crash.'
Buy-and-hold was their cry And wealthy you'll be,
Not realizing the Fool's Bubble was adrift in the sea..............
The MF's weren't there; not one there for laughs.
They were runnin' around and lookin for rafts.
None knew it was comin' nor would be gigantic,
But the Fools were all sailin' the Dow Jones Titantic..................
They were buyin' on highs and buyin' on lows.
Buyin' and sayin' to the moon it goes
Hey, Fools! they said, This ain't 29.
Keep buyin' and all you Fools will be fine......................
And it wasn't until the parabola collapsed,
Margin calls had come in, and time had elapsed,
That the Fools said, then, they always knew,
Stocks don't just go up, Hell! They go down too!

Gold Chart showing breakout gap and new up trend being created.
Patience my precious.
Patience

Little by little the acorn said
And the mighty oak raised its noble head.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:28
HighRise Windows 95>(Windows 95) ID#401237:
Miro ( @Kahunna Grande on Microsoft ) ID#347457: I was informed one day that Bill Gates has a problem. In an effort to make as much money as possible he has fragmented his market - Windows versions are not compatible with one another. Most Wintel users have no need to upgrade, for once they can type a letter, run a game and get on the internet they are set for a long time. As a result there are more Apple Mac OSs than Windows 95. The new Mac OS8 with a Power PC chip is super. Apple has sold millions of the OS8 in the last few months. Their new Rhapsody OS beta is out and is with developers. It is a combined Mac/ NeXt OS, a cross platform OS that is awesome. Now add to that the SunMicrosystem JAVA and Microsoft may have a problem. Both Oracle and Apple are coming out with Network Computers ( NCs ) shortly, running with JAVA. There are some heavy hitters allied together Apple, IBM, Motorola, Oracle, SunMicrc0system, etc. And today there appears to be a problem between Microsoft and Compaq.
There will be a lot of employees who will watch all of their bonuses shrink when / if the stock goes down.
Interesting thought like RCA?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:26
tolerant! @large>(@large) ID#31868:
FROM GOLD NEWSLETTER SEPTEMBER 96

http://blanchard.stockscape.com/archive/96SEPO-1.HTM


VENEROSO'S WITNESSES:

No.1: Larger official gold flows
- Unreported but identifiable flows of official gold in 1990-1992 imply that GFMS understated global gold demand by about 400 tonnes by 1992. Continuing into the present, central banks are sup- plying far more borrowed gold than Gold Fields estimates.

No.2: Larger speculator sales
- Massive unrecorded speculator selling in 1994 implies higher gold demand levels and a higher gold market deficit. Because GFMS underestimated speculator purchases in 1993, it also underestimated 1994 speculator sales which were nearly 700 tonnes, not the 168 tonnes Gold Fields reported. Official sector sales met speculator demand in 1993.

No.3: WGC confirms suspicions
- The World Gold Council's Gold Demand Trends Survey tends to confirm that Gold Fields Mineral Services underestimated global gold demand by 400 tonnes or more.

No.4: Bank of England statistics
- Bank of England disclosures from its oversight of the London gold market imply that 1995's borrowed gold flows totalled 1,000 to 1,200 tonnes ( 32.2 to 38.6 moz ) annually. GFMS estimates these flows at about 600 tonnes ( 19.3 moz ) . Greater supplies of borrowed gold suggest that Gold Fields underestimated 1995 demand by 400 to 600 tonnes.

No.5: Trends and intensity of use
- Long term trends and intensity of use patterns also argue that demand has been underestimated over the last decade. Although gold demand rises faster than world output ( faster still in the rapidly growing Far East ) and the gold price has fallen 40 percent in real terms since 1988, demand hasn't risen 40 percent. GFMS estimates mainland Chinese use as being far too low, assuming they have a lower intensity of use than overseas Chinese and other neighbors, an illogical position.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:25
hey Ted repressed much lately?>(repressed much lately?) ID#40496:

Ted - I'm glad I put you in such a good mood.
I wasn't sitting all day at the computer, Ted,
just indicating that if you knew how to read
( HAHAHAHAHA ) you could see that I had
posted during the day, and was not running
off and not posting ( like Donald's Dow/Gold
ratio, HAHAHAHA ) when things weren't
temporarily going my way. It's very healthy
to let out negative feelings instead of
allowing them to build up, Ted. For
being such a successful man, Ted ( HAHAHAHA )
you sure let a little peon get under your skin.
I don't think I'll be taking that servant job,
Ted, but maybe you could give yourself
a different kind of job to release more of
that pent-up hostility. Remind me once
again what you made money on today.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, and Teddy...

What's your point?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:25
Kahunna Grande PB Texas>(PB Texas) ID#27454:
Reality versus perceved reality. All across the world stock markets tank, fortunes are lost and people look for a safe haven. The PM's stay flat but money pours into the US. People perceve the US to be stable friendly place. Our business is A1 and our president is a fine upstanding gentelemen. The reality is our country is rotton to the core. Our elected officials atr corrupt. Our president will be known in history as the administer of the most corrupt administration in this country history. Our business is based upon the expansion of capital through debt. Bank loans are carried as assets while cash on hand is defined as a liability. Only when the reality sinks in on investors that out republican government has become a den of theives with their hands out for their bite. When this happens I dont believe there can be a price placed on gold or silver. What will bring this about IMHO will be a third world conflict that will blow up on this country. My bet is on Korea.IMOA. When other countries start seeing the emporer is necked and aint got no clothes on. Then there will be the greatest flight to quality the world has ever seen. The only problem is this great republic will perish!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:22
Byron @ Info>(@ Info) ID#252132:
To get the current Nikke quotes, go to http://quote.yahoo.com and type in ^n225 in the quote box.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:20
Miro @Kahunna Grande - Microsoft not dead yet>(@Kahunna Grande - Microsoft not dead yet) ID#347457:
Hey Kahuna, I never said that Microsoft id dead. It's just that I don't see their market growing at the rate it used to. I've been in this IT high tech area for a long time and saw raise and decline of many companies. No, they don't die from day to day. And there is not replacement at this time for Microsoft OS. However, a few things are in making and after a while who knows.

Y2K is a mixed blessing for Microsoft. There will be some upgrades on the other side, due to spending most of the IT budgets to fixing legacy systems instead of building new systems, the revenues for MS will decline due to Y2K!! Home PC market is not where MS gets their money from.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:20
6pak M.A.I & Fast Track @ Albright & Clinton Corporate American needs your help (Government by the people?)>(M.A.I & Fast Track @ Albright & Clinton Corporate American needs your help (Government by the people?)) ID#335190:


October 23, 1997
Clinton team intensifies push for trade powers

WASHINGTON ( Reuters ) - Secretary of State Madeleine Albright warned Thursday that a chain reaction of protectionism could result if Congress denied President Clinton fast track power to negotiate new trade pacts. Albright issued the warning, the strongest yet from an administration struggling to muster the votes it needs to win the
controversial trade authority, as Clinton enlisted U.N. Ambassador Bill Richardson in the uphill policy fight. White House spokesman Mike McCurry said Richardson was drafted to help because of his role in gaining passage in 1993 of the North American Free Trade Agreement ( NAFTA ) between the United States, Canada and Mexico.


Many of Clinton's fellow Democrats have deserted him in the fast track fight because of concerns that new trade pacts would encourage U.S. to companies move abroad to take advantage of cheap labor and lax environmental standards.

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Bill Archer, a Texas Republican, told the president in a letter Wednesday that fast track legislation could be defeated in the House if Clinton failed to line up more support from the Democrats.
http://canoe2.canoe.ca/ReutersNews/TRADE-USA.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:18
Spud Master to Student...>(to Student...) ID#273112:
he meant to say Tora! Tora! Tora! ... which if I recall my politically incorrect history, was the code phrase uttered by the vicious & dastardly pilots of the Jap Imperial Fleet as they began their attack on Pearl Harbor. On the other hand, Bora-Bora *is* a very nicely Pacific island retreat, so perhaps he was implying the current Japanese shoguns would rather be hiding there given the Nikkei meltdown in progress...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:18
C.V. Compton Shaw cvshaw@prodigy.net>(cvshaw@prodigy.net) ID#342115:
Gold is long and short term bearish; however,if there is another up move in gold tomorrow, we may have reached a short term bottom in the same. Silver is bullish long term and bearish short term. The XAU is bullish long term and bearish short term; however, of course, if gold starts a short term rally beginning tomorrow, both the long and short term for the XAU will be bullish. The CRB is bullish short and long term and is over sold short term. The dollar is bearish long term and bullish short term; however, if we have a down day tomorrow in the dollar, the dollar will be bearish both long and short term. Bonds are bullish both long and short term. The major market indicies are bearish both long and short term with increased volatility expected. The moving averages for the S&P 100 looks extremely bearish both long and short term.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:17
vronsky MISSING THE POINT...>(MISSING THE POINT...) ID#427357:
REF: Kahunna Grande ( Microsoft is not dead... Yet ) : And it wont't die. HOWEVER, with due respect you missed the point of my comparison that high PER stocks will be the most hit in a protracted Bear Market. RCA didn't die as you well know - checkout the comparison again:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/rca_msft.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:17
Organ @ LGB>(@ LGB) ID#198328:
LGB, I have had respect for your posts since day 1. The early ones were a tad abraisive, but your analysis was and continues to be excellent. There is always a logic in your posts that I appreciate. I also like it when you thrash astrology and other peripheral ways of analysing the market. I don't feel as alone then. Keep it up

Organ

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:15
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
G. Cole: In a recent newsletter, Mr. Blanchard stated something to the effect that Veneros and he ( combined average between their remarks ) that roughly 6000 tons is on the short.

Good grief, whatever it is, it's a bunch.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:10
Donald @BOJ-SignalsInterestRatesBelowHalfPercent>(@BOJ-SignalsInterestRatesBelowHalfPercent) ID#26793:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/22/y0004_z00_21.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:10
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
NICK 20:01post- pretty good stuff there.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:07
WW @TED>(@TED) ID#18970:
THEY are the financial asset warehousers on a mysterious place WE call WALL ST. Hello?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:05
Kahunna Grande Microsoft is not dead... Yet>(Microsoft is not dead... Yet) ID#27454:
Miro, Microsoft is going to face the greatest explosion of computer expansion to date. Y2K is going to force everyone that hasn't upgraded to get new equipment both hard and soft. No one can put their thumb on how many units this will be but you can expect it in the millions. Also the PC market is in less than 20% of homes. RCA should have been so lucky. I just feel that the market Microsoft is selling to is anywhere close to saturation. And as for the Internet while looking to the near future nothing will replace Explorer/Netscape. But remember these did not exist five years ago. what would happen to netscape if some hacker came up with a better faster easier format? Thats why I dont invest in technology stocks. Things are changing too fast and can turn in an instant.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:03
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
Go Labor/ Go Progressives Defeat Clinton's Fast Track to lost jobs. Labor Yes!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:03
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Miro: Some very solid thinkers agree with you.

Excerpt from a Strategic Investment Newsletter posting about four or so months ago. The article was entitled -

Three reasons Microsoft will not Rule the World

Look on their works, ye mighty, and despair...

Rules of thumb are all very well and good, but Microsoft has preeminent market position, universal name recognition, and a hardworking, very well bankrolled staff which can turn their hand to a new area and turn out a competitive product and put it on the market very quickly. It is constantly surfing the waves of change in the industry to adapt to new trends and products.

What, specifically, is on the horizon which might possibly threaten its predominant position?

Three things: The Internet, the Internet, and the Internet.

http://www.strategicinvestment.com


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:01
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
The Jabberstock. Twas bullig, and the slithy brokers Did buy and gamble in the craze
All rosy were the Dow Jones stokers By market's wrath un-phazed.
``Beware the Jabberstock, my son! The cost that bites, the worth that falls!
Beware the Econ'mist's word, and shun The spurious Street o' Walls!''
He took his forecast sword in hand: Long time the Boesk'some foe he sought
Sake's liquidity, so d'vested he, And stood awhile in thought.
And as in bearish thought he stood The Jabberstock, with clothes of tweed,
Came waffling with the truth too good, And yuppied great with greed!
Chip Black! Chip Blue! And through and through the forecast blade went snicker-snack!
It bit the dirt, and with its shirt, He went rebounding back.
``And hast thou slain the Jabberstock? Come to my firm, V.P.ish boy!
O big bucks day! Moolah! Good Play!'' He bought him a Mercedes Toy.
Twas panic, and the slithy brokers Did gyre and tumble in the Crash
All flimsy were the Dow Jones stokers As mammon's wrath them bash!


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 20:01
student dumb question>(dumb question) ID#289318:
Forgive me, but what does Bora Bora mean or signify?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:56
Ted @ Jacobs Field(brrrrrrrrr)>(@ Jacobs Field(brrrrrrrrr)) ID#364147:
Dec. gold down ten cents ( what will it take,a nuclear war ) ...GO TRIBE!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:49
Miro @Kahunna Grande on Microsoft>(@Kahunna Grande on Microsoft) ID#347457:
I beg to differ on your assessment of Microsoft. Microsoft, just like RCA reached a plato of maturity in their product - Operating system and office environment for microcomputers. As a matter of fact, they reached that maturity with Windows 95 ( and some experts will argue it with their MS-Windows )
Statistics support it, there is a significant number of commercial users who still refuse to upgrade from MS-Windows to Windows XX because it does not add anything to functionality required from Operating system or office product suite. Currently, after adjusting to 32 bit architecture and tightly integrating their product, there is not much they can offer except adding a few blows and whistles. Next drive which will dominate this market is Internet and Microsoft is NOT leading this market and WILL NOT be allowed ( rightly so ) to monopolize that market ( see the latest Court ruling on this issue ) - it would require moving from current Microsoft domain ( OS for microcomputers ) into new area ( e.g. RCA moving from radios to telephone business )

So I really don't see much difference between RCA and Microsoft and believe the analogy is appropriate.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:48
Ted @ New Zealand>(@ New Zealand) ID#364147:
NZ down 5.21%......Aurator: ya sellin

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:47
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
The white metals usually lead the way. As to Platinum taking the lead, I am not sure. You would have to get into which metal made it's move first, so fourth and so on.

At this point, with markets so out of whack. My consensus of one says that any one or all three could fly based on market nerves and sentiment.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:46
Bora-Bora ASIA>(ASIA) ID#262186:
Here comes the Asian TBT ( T-Bond Tsunami ) . Forty-two per cent of
foreign bank borrowings in Hong Kong are owed to Japanese banks. So clearly Japanese banks, of all foreign banks in Hong Kong, are the most highly exposed. THE HENG SENG DROPPED NEARLY 11% IN ONE SIGLE DAY!! Should that tell us something The seed of destruction of the Japanese Financial Machine was in their own aggressive nature. IRONIC, how history has a way of repeating itself... albeit in another form.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:46
Ted @ Steady>(@ Steady) ID#364147:
Hey dude: Click: http://quote.yahoo.com/ and then click international markets...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:45
JTF @the awakening - market wise>(@the awakening - market wise) ID#57232:
Donald: You are absolutely right - we should not be saying flight to safety of the dollar. It's all relative. But -- it does look like some of the news commentators are beginning to be able to say that four letter word: gold.
What I see is that history is in the making in front of us -- people are beginning to wake up to reality -- that the markets don't always go up -- that our leaders are not always truthful -- and that the average human on this planet is being manipulated in many ways. The cycle is shifting back to an awakening -- a shift back toward reality. Lets hope we don't come down as hard as we did in the 30's.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:37
pyramid ( fast track attack ........... marching order )>(( fast track attack ........... marching order )) ID#217268:
This week's US stock market volatility is forcing the hand of US Congress to approve Executive Branch fast track authority. What timing ........

As I understand it, the marching order for PM's are: ( 1 ) platinum, ( 2 ) silver, ( 3 ) gold stocks, ( 4 ) gold. Is this the understanding of the group ?


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:33
steady how>(how) ID#285233:
ALL: How do you access current Asian market quotes

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:32
common-sense VERY KEEN OBSERVATION>(VERY KEEN OBSERVATION) ID#343186:
TO Kahunna Grande ( PB Texas ) : Yes, you are right. But allow me to point out it was EXACTLY THE SAME IN OCTOBER 1929!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:29
vronsky GOLD'S OUTSTANDING SHORT POSITION HAS ELECTRIFYING POTENTIAL>(GOLD'S OUTSTANDING SHORT POSITION HAS ELECTRIFYING POTENTIAL) ID#427357:
I would like to add someting to George S. Cole's comment about Gold's SHORT position being as high 8,000 tonnes. For those not familiar with the gold industry, this represents nearly THE ENTIRE WORLD'S MINE PRODUCTION FOR FOUR YEARS! This means when the noble metal begins to rise in ernest, the scrambling of all those SHORTS TO COVER will produce an electrifying & explosive upside price movement in the yellow metal.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:27
Ted @ WW>(@ WW) ID#364147:
WW: Who the hell is THEY---is this some damn conspiracy....like Watergate er somethin? Who was that on the grassy knoll?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:21
Ted @ damn stox market>(@ damn stox market) ID#364147:
Dem bastards lied ta me....thought the damn thing only went UP....where the hell are my fellow dipsters?...ya guys left me hangin...buy the dips---well where the fu*k were you guys today when I needed ya? Where's me main man ( ? ) Bobby Rubin---spin me a yarn Bobby....Blutarsky: Hepcat must know someone in the Know hahahahaha....he's a measly peon...hahahaha...maybe I should come out of the closet---what ya think Tort?....drop some names....like big Bob Merrill ( you'd love em WW ) == guess you'd think he was the ultimate PIG...eh!!!....as Charlie said death to the pigs.....and all internet FREAKS called Hepcat ( HAHAHAHA )
Ted, I'm right here and have been all day---congrats LOSER!!! whatta life ( HAHAHAHA ) he must know someone ( whatta joke ) yeah' that's why he spends all his time @ kitco----tryin ta demean anyone+everyone ( yes the GREAT writer has a life ( HAHAHAHA ) .....Hep you sure can out write me but yer still a LOSER...and a peon ta boot...Servant job still open......

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:20
Steve - Perth steve@compsb.eepo.com.au>(steve@compsb.eepo.com.au) ID#284170:
BREAKING NEWS VIA AUSTRALIA

Sell off sweeps world markets
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971024/pageone/pageone1.html

Metals price fears sinks miners
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971024/business/business3.html

Things don't go so better with Coke
http://www.smh.com.au/daily/content/971024/business/business8.html
( Down from $18 to $11.85 )

Meltdown: Asia in Chaos
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971024/market/markets3.html
To Hell in a Hang basket

The Australian fallout
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971024/market/markets4.html

Want to buy a cheap Aussie Casino 17% Drop yesterday
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971024/invest/invest5.html

Singapore succumbs to Investor stampede
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971024/market/markets5.html

Rene Rivkin predicting a slow down, not a crash
http://www.afr.com.au/content/971024/banking/banking4.html

Asian Links kiss of death in markets
http://www.theage.com.au/daily/971024/bus/bus7.html




Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:20
Kahunna Grande PB Texas>(PB Texas) ID#27454:
Volume on DJIA 672,4Million. From another angle, wasn't there a lot of buying going on today? This is an equil sum game game. For every seller there has to be a buyer by the end of the close? Just another view.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:14
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Gold Newsletter's September issue stipulated long positions held at that time, had one institution in at 45,000,00oz, and two individuals accounting for another 50,000,000oz between them.

It is not hard to do the math, coupling large draw downs on current 12 year low stocks and silver could show her intensely volitile nature.

There are several different scenarios that could spark a jump in silver's price. If general sentiment were ignited by silver's move, a flashpoint in general population thinking could produce a move into gold. This would completly blow the lid off of the shorts.



Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:09
Kahunna Grande RE:Voronsky 18:09 Post>(RE:Voronsky 18:09 Post) ID#27454:
While RCA lost 97% of its value ther are some large differences. When RCA crashed the radio was a mature technology. From the invention of the vacuum tube until transistors which was roughly thirty years the technology of the radio did not change. Radios built in 1921 were pretty much the same as those built in 1955. The computer of today changes quickly. I am running a 486 66 that was updated two years ago. Today this trotline weight is obselete. Usefull yes and I work the devil out of it. But still for what I paid to have this updated two years ago will buy over 1000% greater technology. When the chips and the software run aginst a wall then I can buy Microsoft falling. Until then load MS98 on and generate some cash for BG

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:09
D.A. re.gold.shorts>(re.gold.shorts) ID#7568:
GSC:

I have posed the question of the amount of outstanding gold shorts to a gentleman who used to work for one of the major bullion houses involved in the leasing business. His best guess was around 60 MM ounces based upon the size of the book when he left and its proportion to the other major lender. Apparently there are two houses which account for most of the outstanding loans. While this man could easily be off by 50% it is quite unlikely that he is off by a factor of 4.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:04
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
JTF: Nothing like New England in the Fall. We have been to Maine for three days of nature's perfection.

I keep hearing on the news about the flight to safety in the dollar. Changing the snide quotation marks I respond: flight to safety of dollar derivatives. There is a big difference.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:03
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
Just a reminder. Looking at the XAU may not give us the correct signals when gold breaks out. The heavy hedging companies could be hurt with a rush up in bullion. ABX, PGU, PDG I believe are heavy hedges. HM Newmont are light hedgers. Comments? Look at the XAU for today HM NM TVX bmg were up ASA, ABX, HL were down.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:01
MoreGold @Shorts>(@Shorts) ID#348286:
Thanks George: That would mean the Gold short position of 256 million ounces is @ equal to the US CB Gold stockpile.
If this is the case, it is hard to conceive how an eventual explosion in Gold prices could be derailed.
Todays investors will not buy $320. Gold, but they WILL buy $750. Gold, and even more will buy $1000. Gold.

Meanwhile US Bonds were actually up today, showing that the big money is not ready to enter the Gold camp......

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 19:00
Lurker @the_sidewalk>(@the_sidewalk) ID#241149:
Cherokee - ( ...as they dive from the 14th floor... )
- one down, more to follow - and it's Friday there now.
I wonder if the CB sale's announcement schedule has been revised?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:57
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
The propaganda, talking head machine is in full swing across the US. It is amazing to hear experts discussing the fact that the Asian problems will not effect Americans or the DOW.

If there is a plan it must be to terminate the middle-class completely, taking no prisoners. ABC made it sound like currency speculators are to blame. Wait, listen and watch as Mr. Soros and his traveling band of currency bandito's are mentioned more and more. CAN IT HAPPEN HERE? What is a currency speculator? Now for the story we go to another talking head and so on and so on.

Giving Bill Clinton the fast-track for making private trade deals is like electing Al Capone Mayor of Chicago.

And all of the mutual fund's have their faces out talking calm and long term trends. You have to be a long term investor. Give us a call, and let us show you a thousand ways to lose your life's savings.

I am convinced these people won't learn until it washes over them and there is nothing, and I mean nothing thatcan change the fact that they are drop dead broke.





Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:55
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
Panda can you run out a longer term Industrials chart for us.Thanks in advance.

Bora-Bora: Where are you getting your quotes?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:50
steady final episode>(final episode) ID#285233:
Bora-Bora: How do you get the Globex/Nikkei numbers?
Nothing like watching it real time!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:46
Tortfeasor mhurst@ix.netcom.com>(mhurst@ix.netcom.com) ID#371247:
As my 17 year old daughter left the house with 5 rolls of toilet paper last night to TP a friend's car I had no idea that the value of that toilet paper would actually go up today against the DOW. And like that toilet paper, many investors were wiped out today. This market is simple Charmin. Let my prisoner gold go free.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:39
panda @gold>(@gold) ID#30116:
You know,..., these talking heads just can't bring themselves to use the 'G' word, as in GOLD! :- ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:36
Steve - Perth steve@compsb.eepo.com.au>(steve@compsb.eepo.com.au) ID#284170:
http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/squote?TICKER=$UTIL&TABLES=CHART_EXTEND&SOURCE=core/dbc
Even though the Dow Industrial Index is trending down, & the 30 Yr Bonds are bottoming slowly ( over the past 2-3 months ) , there is no medium term change in the direction of the Dow UTILITIES Index. Is that just because oil stocks are strong or what? Or is there more BULL to come on the DOW? Not adding up somehow.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:35
panda @HUI thirt minute chart>(@HUI thirt minute chart) ID#30116:

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:33
panda @XAU thirty minute chart>(@XAU thirty minute chart) ID#30116:

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:33
Bora Bora NIKKEI ON THE GLOBEX>(NIKKEI ON THE GLOBEX) ID#262186:
At 4PM today the Nikkei Stock Average was DOWN 850 TO 16800. Here comes the ASIAN TBT ( T-Bond Tsunami ) . Man the financial-lifeboats. Everyman for himself, who still doesn't have his Gold-Lifesaver! October 24, 1997 sun-rise in the Land of the Rising Sun way some day be referred to as the Nippon Black Friday.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:32
panda @Dow 30 ten minute chart>(@Dow 30 ten minute chart) ID#30116:

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:30
George Cole gold shorts>(gold shorts) ID#42953:
MOREGOLD: Some estimate that the gold short position is as high as 8000 tons.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:27
Steve - Perth steve@compsb.eepo.com.au>(steve@compsb.eepo.com.au) ID#284170:
JOHN DISNEY: What I want to know is why is Gdhaffi so dumb to allow Mandela to be seen with him, and spoiling his IMAGE? They may be terrorists, but they are POLES apart philosophically.

MARKET ACTION: I must confess, that I am enjoying this crash VERY MUCH. I have been waiting a long time for this, & I hope it continues. Am looking for some good YIELDING stocks for my clients money. Won't have too long to wait now. Patience is a VIRTUE.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:27
George Cole highs and lows>(highs and lows) ID#42953:
Tw: The USA Gold site reported the sharp rise in lease rates. Someone just posted the write-up here.

More new lows than new highs today. A long time since that has happened. The times they are a changin! But a really big smash is unlikely until the dollar tanks and gold soars.

Today Bob Rubin argued that U.S. economic leadership depends upon Congressional passage of fast track. What he really means is that the ability of his Wall Street and CEO friends to continue enriching themselves at exponential rates might be hindered some if fast track fails. Simple as that. BTW, the derailing of fast track would be very bullish for the yellow.




Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:26
MoreGold @FUTURE :- >(@FUTURE :- ) ID#348286:
Gold stocks seem to be doing very well even with the dismal performance of Bullion in the face of the panicking stock markets. Unfortunately Gold may yet be manipulated down or at least hold current levels for a little while longer.
I see the world financial powers wanting to stop any major Gold rally before it ignites, and scares the bond and equity markets even further.
As many of us beleive, they will ultimately fail, and that will be the beginning of what may be the biggest Gold bull market in history.
Some are saying the Gold short position is 2000 tonnes ( @ 64 million ounces ) . This short covering will add the needed fuel to propel the price.
May not be time to pop the champagne corks, but the signs are looking good.........

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:18
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
Donald: Great to have you back! Hope you got a good break from all this madness! The last 24 hours have been really dramatic. Please scroll down to Jin's post to me this AM at 00:01. If you click on it, you will see that the mainland Chinese reduced their interest rates on loans by 1 1/2%. As far as I am concerned that is the smoking gun, so to speak. The mainland Chinese have in effect acknowledged thier faltering economy and rising debt problems. You were right after all!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 18:09
vronsky RCA (1925-1929) and MICROSOFT (1993-1997)>(RCA (1925-1929) and MICROSOFT (1993-1997)) ID#427357:
YOGI BERRA

Deja Vu All Over Again?! From 1929 to 1932 RCA lost 97% of its market value.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/rca_msft.html


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:57
Yellow Jacket @Work>(@Work) ID#185112:
TW: From http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/4915/ Thursday's COMEX gold estimated volume was a moderate 35,000 lots. Total COMEX gold open interest on Wednesday rose 1,193 to 176,416 contracts. COMEX gold warehouse stocks lost 33,738 ounces to 777,206 ounces, while COMEX silver warehouse stocks remained at their 12-year low of 133,901,501 ounces.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:56
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
USAGOLD's

DAILY MARKET REPORT/For Current Quotes Call 1-800-869-5115
10/23/97 MARKET UPDATE ( 10/23/97 ) AM----- Near panic conditions in stock markets from Asia to Europe caused investors to buy gold today. The selling began in Hong Kong as most investors were still asleep. The Hang Seng Index in Hong Kong dropped 10.4% or 1400 points in panicked trading, as investors feared that Hong Kong would become the next Asian nation to succumb to the devaluations that have hit Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Korea and the Philippines in recent months. As markets opened in Europe, Germany's DAX dropped 194 points or about 5%. France's CAC-40 dropped about 4%, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average opened 150 points lower in the first minutes of trading and has continued to slide throughout the morning.

As capital fled from Asia, it found its way into European currencies ( such as the German Mark and Swiss Franc ) and gold. Both the Swiss and German currencies are sharply higher against the U.S. Dollar while the Japanese Yen is dropping along with other Asian markets. Scared money from Asia has also found its way into the U.S. Treasury markets, pushing them sharply higher on the opening. However, even U. S. Treasuries have succumbed to the selloff with the stock market and have lost most of their gains by mid-morning. Investors are buying gold on the Asian markets crisis as can be seen from the firm gold price and the increase in gold lending rates at major bullion banks. The lending rate has increased from 3.0% on Monday to 3.35% today. History has shown that rising lending rates usually precede higher gold prices. As one gold trader said, with all of the volatility in financial markets, no one wants to be short gold.

Yesterday, we reported the World Gold Council's latest figures: Dubai imported 45,364 tonnes of bullion in September, up from 26,585 tonnes the same period one year ago. So far this year, gold trade through Dubai to India and the East has reached record levels, with imports in the first nine months totalling 473,585 tonnes, up from 254,595 tonnes in the same period last year. On Monday we reported that Comex gold warehouse stocks were down sharply on last Friday's report ( - 90,000 ounces ) . The London Interbank gold bullion lending rates have risen on this strong demand and weaker supply. It's been holding steady at around 3%. In the past, the rate going over 3% has signaled rising prices. In the silver market, warehouse stocks continue to dwindle. Since June of this year, 70 million ounces have been withdrawn and stocks now stand at 134,500---the lowest point in 12 years. Yesterday, a story surfaced that two bullion dealers--one in New York and one in London--are suspected of cornering the silver market. We have always suspected a Middle-East connection, as rumors are continuing to circulate that much of the buying in the silver market is originating in the Middle East and there have been confirmed deliveries to that region. All of this is setting up silver for a big run. That's it for now. We will update if anything breaks. If not, this will be it for today.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:51
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
SILVER/ as I mentioned in a post this AM I said that this is the type of day where THEY will be all over the metals to ensure they dont rally sharply. They did this during the Mexican crisis and will do it now. The reason they do it is to prevent any safe haven buying when there is a loss of confidence situation. This suppresses demand during the crisis. Silver will eventually rise no matter what due to supply. But THEY want the headline to be it rises because of SUPPLY and not LOSS OF CONFIDENCE. Thus the suppression today. Their MO was to buy a little gold and short silver. If the metals ever took off in an environment like this there would be a financial bubble implosion and THEY know it. Look for a very sharp overnite rally in the metals as a sign THEY have lost control. On the order of at least 20 bucks gold 50/60 cents silver. When this happens it will be dynamic and induce incredible panic. Also when this happens US dollar and bonds will hemmorage as Capital flows home to repair. The type of situation developing is close to this type of potential. Look for some POLS/Wall St and their mouth piece, CNBC to be frantic in their reassurances.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:45
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
The Dow is dead meat. Japan is in no man's land without dumping our debt ridden paper. I look for a minimum 30% correction. And I mean minimum. Bare minimum.

Christmas stockings will not be filled this year. If Mr. Greenspan does anything, or nothing it won't matter. The people in the US might be dumb as rocks, but I can assure you that the Asians are not going to put the full weight of their trust in paper of any kind.

Bankers, politicians, and financial wizards will be like leaves of lettuce tossed in a bowl.

This puppy has a life of it's own now and nothing will stop it until the full course has been run and equilibrium has been restored.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:30
Silver @home>(@home) ID#289349:
I tell you, the guys who are cornering the silver market sure are gettiing
it cheap! What's up with silver dropping today?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:28
Lucky Strike and The Nuggets>(and The Nuggets) ID#320158:
Our New Hit Song ( to the tune of Oh Lord, It's Hard To Be Humble:

Oh Lord, it's hard to be a goldbug,
When you're losing in every way,
I can't bear to look at the gold price,
It sinks ever lower each day;
I love gold, so I bought gold,
I must have been out of my head -
Oh, why didn't I
Just go and buy
GM, Coke and Intel instead.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:24
Tw @?>(@?) ID#31870:
GSC where did you see lease rates up sharply. Per Kitco they fell a little today. Anyone know Comex warehouse stocks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:13
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
Brazil down 1056 ( 8.15% ) If Hong Kong is a disaster for Japan and Taiwan then Brazil is just as big a disaster for the U.S. and Canada.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:06
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
XAU/Spot Ratio = .325

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:06
mikeharry limits>(limits) ID#348397:
When circuit breakers on Dow moves are in effect, do index options ( OEX eg. ) still trade ?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:05
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio = 24.26

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 17:04
Poorboys Visiting@Your@pals>(Visiting@Your@pals) ID#224149:
LGB-You amaze me and probably every visitor to this page.You are the best dose of long-winded Dr.Jeckle and Mr.Hyde opinions on the net.Keep up the good work!!Love from all your friends at the Toronto Mental Institution .Happy Trails

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:59
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
I don't think the bond action was a near as positive as the talking heads are trying to make us think. IMO asia was selling and our government was buying. That is why the bond market couldn't hold its highs. Also I think that a strong clue was the big lost in utilities. Tonight ( or soon there after ) Japan will most likely break 17,000 and join Hong Kong in the free fall.
The games are being played ( as we expected ) but the results are not falling in place for the status quo.

I would appreciate seeing our fine technical folks looking at the industrials with this closing and let us know if severe technical levels have been breached. Thanks in advance.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:46
George Cole lease rates>(lease rates) ID#42953:
Gold lease rates up sharply today according to USA Gold site. Portent of higher prices soon?

BTW, could someone post the URL of Bart's lease rate page?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:44
EK circuit breakers>(circuit breakers) ID#158191:
ARIK: If the Dow falls 350 from the previous close the NYSE closes for half an hour. If it falls 500 points the market closes for an hour.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:41
Marla Maples @ The Donald>(@ The Donald) ID#340174:
Why'd ya leave me luv?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:40
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio for Wednesday 10/22/97 = 24.94
XAU/Spot Ratio for Wednesday 10/22/97 = .325

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:38
Robert Rubin @ Spinning like a Top>(@ Spinning like a Top) ID#403159:
Round and round we go,where we end Up no one knows. G'bugs: Will come up with some good sh!t tonight! Buy the DIPS!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:38
mikeharry my 2c.>(my 2c.) ID#348397:
Thanks elf. Not too specific mind you. I think we`ll see the Dow lose 1000 points short term.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:37
Donald @Home>(@Home) ID#26793:
Dow/Gold Ratio for Tuesday, 10/21/97, = 25.01
XAU/Spot Ratio for Tuesday, 10/21/97, = .317

I have been away for several days. Sorry for the delay.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:36
George Cole dead cat bounce>(dead cat bounce) ID#42953:
LGB: That last hour rally was even weaker than you anticipated. A dead cat bounce?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:28
elf OK, I'll bite>(OK, I'll bite) ID#33180:
mikeharry: Dow in one month: down. Dow in three months: up

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:27
2 @the bourse>(@the bourse) ID#194225:
If you exited the Dow when it hit 8300 and went into a PM fund, you would be approx 25% better off than your buddy who stayed in the Dow. Thats 0-2-5 %.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:26
Ted @ Minestrone is startin ta smell goooood>(@ Minestrone is startin ta smell goooood) ID#364147:
Hell of a day...eh!...Tonight could be interesting in Bangkok as they missed the fun last night cause of a holiday....EB: Stop splittin hairs!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:22
Miro Last hour on Dow>(Last hour on Dow) ID#347457:
Well, looks like there was attempt to rally, however I think the reverse trend is showing up. It used to be buy on dips ( usually in the last hour ) , now I believe sell when the price is right starts playing in the last hour and this chokes the last hour rally . I thought that this factor will be stronger. Well bulls are still in fighting shape - but for how long?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:19
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
Merrill is recommending to dive head long into the Hong Kong market. Seems they already had started the dive last week. Son of a gun, I think that might why that poor fellow is dead now. GETTING VERY SERIOUS.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:15
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20134:
Thanks Panda. Long Day -- but I think a very good one. I feel like everything is starting to fall into place. I hope all is well with all on this board.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:15
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
I can't wait to hear Peter the Repeater on ABC tonight.

Who wants to take bets on how long it will be before we hear about sightings of Soros, the big bad currency wolf, he's hungry and looking at the fattened US market.

Lions and Tigers and Bears, and a Wolf, Oh my.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:13
BGL @Smiley>(@Smiley) ID#212409:
A mole whose head has risin above the ground to see daylight you Minshk! Lighten up or I'll go back to my old ways......

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:13
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
NYSE volume was around 672.4 million shares today. WOW! This was serious selling being done today.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:10
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Looks like the techs ( semis ) got hit good today, Dow down 187.13 so far. Some closing numbers;

$TICK = -225
$TRIN = 1.92
DECLINERS = 2403
ADVANCERS = 556 ( TALK ABOUT A ROUT! )

DOWN VOLUME = 587.49 MILLION SHARES
UP VOLUME = 70.6 MILLION SHARES

$VIX PEAKED AT 27.68 today.

A 'constructive' day for the bulls? :- ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:10
George Smiley LGB = a mole>(LGB = a mole) ID#417115:
For those who now laud LGB with censure and praise, recall that he/she/it made it's entrance here in the most noisome ( yes, noisome ) and obnoxious manner, riding side-saddle on a steed of venal antagonism. Now, behold! LGB the reasoned sage, the trusted contributor. Not likely. For my money, LGB is a mole, here to plant the Big Lie ( s ) when his/her/its true masters yank the string.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:09
LGB @ yeah lgb>(@ yeah lgb) ID#269409:
Hepcat, Hepcat, Hepcat, what is your major malfunction? I'll say this for you, your earlier Gold $325 call has kept the yellow in a VERY narow trading range within that target for many weeks, so you have had quite a good call there. As to Kuston that ignorant fool, well if RJ is your bitch, maybe Juston will be mine hmmm? Now no more BadBoy stuff, I'm trying to live down that reputation and you ain't helpin!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:06
mikeharry market timing central>(market timing central) ID#348397:
Gentlemen, can I have your best guesses on what the Dow does near term from here, ie. next one month ?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:05
LGB @Allan, final hour rally>(@Allan, final hour rally) ID#269409:
Allan re your 14:30, my 14:10, this is why I look more to the psychology of the market and other fundamentals, rather than moving average type indicators. I missed my window by a bit, but we did in fact have the final hour rally George C. had mentined earlier, following it's usual trend, albeit more weakly as I had guessed.

I think we're seeing more and more weakness with each upward thrust, downward plunge. It'll be QUITE awhile before I get back into stocks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:05
yeah LGB where is Mooney?>(where is Mooney?) ID#23996:
As I said, I can only hope to build up a
string of lousy predictions so I can be
as well-loved as Gorgeous Cole.

As long as you keep Kunston shut up, I
have no problem continuing to ignore you, LGB.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:03
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Another ugly bear candle forming on the Dow close...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:02
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Long lunch....

A.Goose -- The TED spread is the spread between T-Bills and Dollars earning interest in Europe ( Euro-Dollars ) . Generally when the spread is 'high' it indicates financial stress...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:02
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
That poor bastard at ML won't be the last dislocated soul.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:01
LGB @No chance for FED Rate increase?>(@No chance for FED Rate increase?) ID#269409:
Thursday October 23 3:16 PM EDT

Asian turmoil could hold down US prices - analysts

By Ellen Freilich

NEW YORK, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - Turmoil in Asian financial markets could curb U.S. exports, contribute to lower U.S. price trends, and
weaken the case for higher short-term interest rates, economists said on Thursday.

``I do think it means the end of any chance of a boost in interest rates,'' said Michael Metz, chief portfolio strategist at Oppenheimer &
Co.

Metz said even if the Federal Reserve has reason to be concerned about inflation in the U.S. service sector, it cannot respond with higher
interest rates at this point.

``The Fed has to be concerned about the amount of leverage in the system, about the fragility of the system and about the possibility of
too severe a slowdown in Southeast Asia,'' said Metz. ``So they cannot do anything. This is very bullish for the bond market.''

As Asian economies weaken, they could flood the United States with low-priced manufacturing goods in a war for market share, a
development that would put downward pressure on U.S. price trends, said Metz.

On the other hand, weakness in Asian economies is bad news for U.S. exports, Metz said.

Japan has enormous exposure to Southeast Asia and its recovery would be jeopardized if those markets could not purchase Japanese
goods. Japan, in turn, is an important market for U.S. exports.

``A good portion of American exports is capital equipment, including technology equipment, and ( those exports ) could be a major
casualty of this,'' said Metz.

For the prices of financial assets other than bonds, what began as a regional crisis could lead to some revised thinking about the general
outlook for the world economy.

``The new paradigm ( that a high-growth, low-inflation economy could grow indefinitely ) might be old hat,'' said Metz. ``And this has to
be negative for valuations generally.''

And Metz said no one really knows how much leverage exists in the financial system.

``This is a disturbing phenomenon and should make people more risk averse,'' he said.

The gyrations in Asian financial markets began with the floating and devaluation of the Thai baht early in July.

Despite the intervention of the International Monetary Fund and others, the turmoil spread, leading to predictions of a longer period of
slowed growth, higher unemployment and painful restructuring.

This month, stocks were hammered in Hong Kong, putting pressure on the Hong Kong dollar, the only currency in the region that has
not yet been devalued.

Charles Lieberman, a partner at Strategic Investors, a hedge fund, said current market gyrations could defer a Federal Reserve
interest-rate tightening.

If the affected Southeast Asian countries cut back on buying Japanese exports, that could hurt Japan. That, in turn, could weaken
Japanese demand for U.S. exports, Lieberman said.

As competition intensifies among those Asian nations to sell their goods to the United States, that could create ``a little bit of disinflation
here,'' he said.

``If the price of a shirt made in Malaysia goes down, apparel prices in the U.S. will either rise more slowly or even go down,'' said
Lieberman.

Citicorp Global Finance senior economist Peter D'Antonio said that at the least, the tight policies authorities will have to pursue in
Southeast Asia will slow their economies.

``In terms of world inflation, that would be a bit of a drag,'' he said. ``Also, these economies will be able to export cheaper goods
abroad. That will increase competition and put downward pressure on prices.''

Also, if U.S. exports decline, that could take some pressure off resource utilization, a development that would put the Fed more at ease,
D'Antonio said.

The Fed does not care whether it is weaker exports or slower consumer spending that takes some of the heat out of the economy, he
said. As long as the economy slows to a sustainable pace.

But D'Antonio said the chance of a Fed rate hike has not been removed.

``If we're going to see higher inflation because of high resource utilization and because demand is continuing at an unsustainable pace,
then the Fed's going to tighten,'' he said.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 16:00
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:
Tonight - Hong Kong will continue to get the squeeze play until they decouple from the US$. Japan's exposure to the Tigers' difficulties will compound its own problems. China next. Korea. Then Japan as this entire area spirals downward. We are just starting on this ride.

People will be up all night watching the numbers. I doubt anyone in the New York financial district will sleep tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:57
LGB @Merrial Lynch>(@Merrial Lynch) ID#269409:
Oops! Forgot to post the article demonstrating Merril Lynches psychic mind reading abilities of the dead. Here it is...

hursday October 23 3:01 PM EDT

HK suicide unrelated to market - Merrill

LONDON, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - The suicide of a British employee of U.S. securities house Merrill Lynch in Honk Kong was unrelated to
this week's plunge in the Hong Kong stock market, a Merrill Lynch spokesman told Reuters on Thursday.

Merrill said William Culley, 43, an information technology expert, took his own life late Tuesday night/Wednesday morning but the act
was not associated with market trading.

Merrill confirmed that Culley, who left a wife and two daughters, had worked as a vice president at Merrill in Hong Kong since early
1996, having previously been an employee of British stockbroker Smith New Court which was bought by Merrill.

``Mr Culley's suicide has no connection whatsoever to this week's sell-off in the Hong Kong market,'' Merrill spokesman said.

``We are deeply saddened by the loss to Bill's family and to Merrill Lynch. During this difficult time, our thoughts are with the
members of his family.''

Earlier, Hong Kong police said a man had been found dead by his wife in the Repulse Bay district of the territory. Chinese newspapers
immediately speculated that the suicide was related to the share market whose fall has gathered pace as the week has gone in.

On Thursday, the Hang Seng index of blue chip shares in Hong Kong fell 10.41 percent.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:56
LGB @Merrill Lynch Now PSYCHIC!!>(@Merrill Lynch Now PSYCHIC!!) ID#269409:
Wow sheller's been right all along. Attached YAHOO article demonstrates that Merril Lynch has psychic powers. They know EXACTLY what was in the mind of a broker who committed suicide during HK market crash. Amazing talent those boys have hmmm Metaphysical even. Trade with Merril only!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:47
George Cole Big Anti-Gold Players>(Big Anti-Gold Players) ID#42953:
Senator Blutarsky: Your argument makes a lot of sense.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:46
LGB @Poorboys>(@Poorboys) ID#269409:
Poorboy, point me to a post where I ever bashed George or where he ever used a Lunar Eclispe or planets to make market predictions and I'll hand over all my Platinum coins to ya! I've always been pals with George and a lot of others here. Even Puetz. In Puetze's case I just go after his method of analysis cause he sells Newsletters. Same with Sheller. LGB is your friend!!

Only one person on this site I've ever truly and totally despised as a person, and he's not posting now anyway. In his case, his input was sound, it was only his personality that was nauseating. ( A line I'm sure some would also attribute to you know who! )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:45
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
If I am not mistaken, the last go round, Merrill Lynch turned bullish on gold at $800.00 - yeah, they are in touch with their logo.

The yuppie death knell - when Microsoft goes down the tanker, the shrine will tumble and horn rimmed glasses will go out of style.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:41
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
BGL: Yes, Yes and Yes -

Fast-track paradigm

In the street with a pair of dimes!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:40
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
George:

How about that Mexico -5.12%.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:40
Poorboys Working@for@a@living>(Working@for@a@living) ID#224149:
Cole @ LGB now friends .YES ? The Universe is unfolding must be that Venus,Mars conjunction or maybe burnt offerings.Happy Trails

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:39
LGB @PM article>(@PM article) ID#269409:
Latest....Thursday October 23 3:01 PM EDT

NY precious metals rise early on Asian stock drop

NEW YORK, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - COMEX precious metals were higher early Thursday on fears that the U.S. stock market would follow
Asian stocks downward, leading investors to seek safety in gold.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was called to open 100 to 150 points lower following a collapse in Hong Kong stock prices, which at
one point fell as much as 14.6 percent. It closed 10.4 percent lower.

At 0924 EDT, COMEX December gold was up $2.10 at $325.70 an ounce, traded $323.40 to $326.00.

``There's been a general flight to quality overnight,'' said William O'Neill, senior futures strategist with Merrill Lynch & Co. ``But it's
more indicative of fears of what will happen to U.S. stocks. S&P is supposed to open 15 points lower. If U.S. stocks follow the Hong
Kong, we could see more buying.''

Hong Kong stocks fell overnight on an increase in Chinese interest rates, taking Malaysian, Singapore and Japanese stocks with it.

In the bullion market, spot gold was quoted at $324.40/90 against the London morning fix of $323.30 and yesterday's New York close
of $322.20/70.

COMEX December silver was up 2.2 cents at $5.055, catching up to gold after a slow start to the session. But traders attributed some of
silver's gains to supply fears.

``I not convinced of the actual tightness,'' O'Neill said. ``But certainly the psychology of it has already entered the market.''

NYMEX January platinum was up $3.30 at $424.50, with NYMEX palladium jumpingd $4.00 to $205.50.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:38
Senator Blutarsky @Senate Intelligence>(@Senate Intelligence) ID#288100:

Comments on Mr. Hepcat: First of all, he beat me fair and square in a wager, and was most gracious in victory. My guess is that he is privvy to the game plan of some powerful market players who are not pro gold. Gotta admit, as maddening as he is, he has made some impressive calls. My take is that $310 gold and 8300 Dow were roughly the target prices these folks had in mind. The fact that it is not happening by the target date ( Oct. 23 ) tells me that the game may be getting away from them. I would say these facts are weighing quite heavily on their minds now.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:37
George Cole suicide>(suicide) ID#42953:
A portent of things to come?

Thursday October 23 3:01 PM EDT

HK suicide unrelated to market - Merrill

LONDON, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - The suicide of a British employee of U.S. securities house Merrill Lynch in Honk Kong was
unrelated to this week's plunge in the Hong Kong stock market, a Merrill Lynch spokesman told Reuters on Thursday.

Merrill said William Culley, 43, an information technology expert, took his own life late Tuesday night/Wednesday morning
but the act was not associated with market trading.

Merrill confirmed that Culley, who left a wife and two daughters, had worked as a vice president at Merrill in Hong Kong
since early 1996, having previously been an employee of British stockbroker Smith New Court which was bought by Merrill.

``Mr Culley's suicide has no connection whatsoever to this week's sell-off in the Hong Kong market,'' Merrill spokesman
said.

``We are deeply saddened by the loss to Bill's family and to Merrill Lynch. During this difficult time, our thoughts are with the
members of his family.''

Earlier, Hong Kong police said a man had been found dead by his wife in the Repulse Bay district of the territory. Chinese
newspapers immediately speculated that the suicide was related to the share market whose fall has gathered pace as the week
has gone in.

On Thursday, the Hang Seng index of blue chip shares in Hong Kong fell 10.41 percent.

More

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:34
BGL @Tolerant>(@Tolerant) ID#212409:
Re that Fast track, don't you just hate these new Yuppie scum, corporate speak, seminar spouted, buzz words like Paradigm shift and Fast Track and Win win, etc. ad nauseum

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:33
George Cole LGB>(LGB) ID#42953:
LGB: Thanks for your support! I also gereatly value your contributions even when I disagree. Right now we are very much on the same wavelength.

Wonder what happened to Mooney?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:27
George Cole rally>(rally) ID#42953:
Looks like we're getting that last hour rally, but it doesn't look too impressive so far.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:22
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
If they give Clinton the fast track to make deals they are nuts!

Thursday October 23 2:26 PM EDT

U.S. economy to suffer with no fast track -Rubin

WASHINGTON, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin said on Thursday U.S. economic fundamentals would suffer over time unless Congress approved giving fast track trade negotiating powers to President Bill Clinton.

``I think our economic fundementals would suffer very substantially over time,'' Rubin said in answer to a question on the effect of denying Clinton fast-track authority to negotiate international trade deals.



Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:21
LGB @Bob 15:12, GSC>(@Bob 15:12, GSC) ID#269409:
Not to worry Bob. The only George COle basher on this site is Hepcat posting now under a wide plethora of handles. George has the good sense to not only ignore such nonsense, but to keep on contributing. Unlike some Tale my ball and go home folks who bailed out of this excellent site cause they just couldn't handle it. George has class, and a good grasp of the wide fundamentals. I respect his input and many others.

Though I've been known to do some bashing of Astrologers and Full moon Prognosticators, ( not them, their analyses ) George doesn't deserve any bashing. However, he knows that and he has the Heuvos to carry on with style. ( Unlike some Ball LESS, puffed ego, juvenile types who shall remain nameless, who can only whine about registration and then petulantly exit the forum when they don't get their way )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:19
Cyb Jeddak CybJeddak@aol.com>(CybJeddak@aol.com) ID#287193:
So far the news reporting is that everything is under control. However, this is a very big market. Huge numbers of people, buyers not classified as investors, have bought in near the top. They if asked are feeling some panic setting in as they have no built in profit cushion. It would not take much more down to distress them.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:13
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:
Hepcat - It wasn't your predictions. It was your attitude. I want to know WHY you thought gold would see 310 and DOW 8300. There are elements in your thinking which probably are valid and need to be looked at. But when you tweak all the noses, that doesn't really help anyone, even you. Now, please, tell us waht you were thinking so tha twe can glean a few gems. Thanks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:12
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
While we are looking at the gold shorts position. The most recent issue of Gold Newsletter was dominated by the short position in gold and the precarious position they may be in, if they get caught, and have to pony up, the gold market would literally explode.

CNBC and all of the other criminals are touting the fact that there is nothing wrong with the US equity markets. No mention of the out of whack valuations, and invisible dividends.

Tres. Sec. Rubin he and President Clinton have their finger on the pulse of the international markets. All is well, the US is strong as a rock.

Ah, yeah, right.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:12
Bob @..in defence of GSC>(@..in defence of GSC) ID#25883:
I am not a fan of anyone. I respect many contributors on this frequency. Some less than kind folk without manners have been throwing lobs of dirt at George lately. GSC dosen't owe anyone anything. If you want to get into a mud slinging match with George just publish your email handle so that he may respond privately to your concerns.

Cheers

bob@inforamp.net

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:09
LGB @Allan>(@Allan) ID#269409:
Allan you're making Puetz look like an optimist again! But I agree with a lot of what you say, just not sure the scenario will be quite that drastic. And thank you for the kind words, shocking though it may be to many on Kitco, the LGB does in fact have a heart, contribute about 10% of his present income to worthy causes, and would indeed do a lot more if hard times came to friends & family, if able.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:08
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
Allen: Great post -- have you checked to see if the life boat divots have been painted solid? Might not work to well if noone checked for the last two years or so.
Seriously, I think D.A. is right on the ball -- we are seeing in China and Hong Kong as the prelude to the demise of our own markets. Not now, but some time from now. Months? A year? Now AG has even more reason to flood the international markets with dollars -- just how much longer can he keep our market up? How can he raise rates? Of course, the dollar will come first.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 15:00
Ray raydm@iamerica.net>(raydm@iamerica.net) ID#411149:
Don't those people on CNBC just make you want to PUKE!
Flight to quality, then bring in the old farts like Bogle and
assure everyone to look to the LONG TERM. If I had a broker that told me to look to the long term I would just hit him betwen the eyes, that long term ONLY HIDES BROKERS MISTAKES. SHORT TERM ACCOUNTING MAKES THEM ACCOUNTABLE AND PRODUCTIVE FOR THE CLIENT!

Tally Ho

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:59
Bob @...DA's Ape story...a classic; WGC Milling - Stanely conference>(@...DA's Ape story...a classic; WGC Milling - Stanely conference) ID#25883:
DA: Now that the Ape's are challenging the humans could this be a high for the humans ? ;- ) A classic story that illustrates that family and friendship are common bonds that unite good folks ( Ape ot otherwise ) when the chips are down.

..speaking of gorillas....

All: I received a transcript of and Oct.2nd conference call sponsored by Nesbitt Burns and George Milling-Stanley, Mngr., Gold Mkt Analysis, World Gold Council. The questions and discussion confirm what most of us already know or suspect, for example, Milling-Stanley answered this question:

Q ) ...It seems to me that [large gold hedge funds] are buying stocks [XAU] beforehand, covering their shorts, driving up the stocks and selling them to the average investor. It certainly sounds to me like the average investor is sort of like fish on a line getting jerked around whichever way the fisherman decides to go.

Milling-Stanley's reply:

...I'd like to keep the zoological imagery if I could, when thinking about the clout that the hedge funds have. I described the hedge funds recently as an 800-pound gorilla in this particular market. Where does an 800-pound gorilla sit ? Anywhere he wants to. If he choses to sit on gold price, the gold price is going to collapse underneath him. And that I think is essentially what's been happening. They have more money to throw around than any of the mining companies do and certainly they have much more money to put into this market into pushing it down than, for example, the World Gold Council does in trying to increase gold consumption but there will be a time, and there will be a combination of things happening. First of all, the lease rates to borrow gold have been going up recently....So it's becoming more expensive to hold these short positions and if you are not generating better profits by driving the price continually lower, then it makes sense to cover your short positions, pack up your bags and get out of the gold market and look for something else, that is, something more vulnerable, whether it's the Thai baht or the Malaysian ringgit or even the Indonesian rupiah or any of these Asian currencies that there has also been some speculator interest in recently.

--end quote--

CB selling 'stories' are key factors that hedge funds need to keep the game alive. Without a fear of price decline downside induced volitility
would tend to flatten and the shorts profits would belimited especially as the lease rates remain historically high.

Cheers.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:58
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:
LGB - Average into the abyss!!! Just a few months ago my 'consultant' was telling me that Asian funds looked really good. When I had lump sums to invest he DID NOT mention averaging in. He just took the money. So happens that each time was at a top and I had to suffer through 6 pitifully profitless months to get back to ZERO return. I certainly hope that you would STRONGLY urge the innocent child-investor to hold tight for now, eh?

Anyway, I agree with you in regards to contrarian investing when the overall economic and financial environments are stable. There are periods of chaotic readjustment ( now, pray tell? ) when most of us would do well to just sit tight until a 'bottom' is formed ( 6 weeks of similar channeling ) in this *entire* system's 'reorganization' before major moves are made. I do not believe stox, even PM stox, are good at this time simply because these markets need to be shaken out from all their crazy assumptions ( read that I am wearing rose colored glasses even though I'm blind as a bat. ) .

And YES you made money. But MILLIONS of people will lose their shirst in this fiasco. They are not as smart as you and they will be devastated. Entire nations are being reduced to ash by devaluations as we watch in breathless stupor. It seems to me that any person who has made their money and found safe haven will *hardly* be able to enjoy it much when they see their many neighbors and friends in a heap. Unless that person is very selfish ( I do not believe that you are ) .

I'm glad for you and for your family. Most people will not be in your position. A proverb from Proverbs for you:

He that gives to the poor will not lack: but he that pretends not to see their plight will have many curses. Pro 28:27

There will be many who will need your help in the future. Possibly you have been allowed understanding as a way to serve their coming need.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:57
HighRise RALLY TIME>(RALLY TIME) ID#401460:
Here comes the Ruben & the BOYS rally.
Fear is Gone, everything is going to be OK-RIGHT

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:56
paths paths@ibm.net>(paths@ibm.net) ID#157190:
Nice Dipster's Trap today. What is this about the new Hong Kong gov. declaring that rents have to be lowered for low income tennants? Is that true, is that what helped trigger what CNN politely calls a bear hug.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:55
wetgold dcrossen@bellatlantic.net>(dcrossen@bellatlantic.net) ID#243180:
What's the bottom for gold/silver ? ( when? )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:52
LGB @Final Hour Rebound>(@Final Hour Rebound) ID#269409:
DOW rapidly moving into final hour rebound range, off 180.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:50
LGB @HighRise>(@HighRise) ID#269409:
Oops , sorry High Rise, I meant to post it to Ted I'm right here didn't mean to slander you with Kittie feces, just got confused in all the market excitement and adjacent posts!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:48
LGB @HepCat/HighRise>(@HepCat/HighRise) ID#269409:
Thorazine, Valium, and Prozac will clear that right up

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:46
HighRise Ruben & the BOYS>(Ruben & the BOYS) ID#401460:
I think it was Aug. 8 when the bubble broke and the Dow was down 200+ Talking heads said that Ruben and the BOYS talk, that is why you see a rally @ 200+ and Gold move back down to the Oil price of 323 or 20/barrel. Ruben has just spoken, he is in touch so you be in touch. I feel like I have been Touched

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:46
Ted, I'm right here and been here all day>(and been here all day) ID#37496:
I guess now that I've made some outlandish predictions
that didn't have a chance in hell of coming true,
I'll be accorded the same respect that Poops and GSCole
have on this forum. I apologize to NJ and the Wichita
Lineman, who proved to be correct in that we wouldn't
see 8300 by 10/23/97. I apologize to no one for my
gold call, since I came closer than anyone else who
bothered making a prediction.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:46
LGB @ Trading Curbs >(@ Trading Curbs ) ID#269409:
Re earlier question about trading curbs, it's a 350 point DOW drop where the Half hour suspension kicks in. Two other curbs have already kicked in. See attached :

Dow woes deepen as Hong Kong shock still ripples

NEW YORK, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - The Dow tumbled further to hit new session lows in early afternoon trading, as the shock of Hong
Kong's stock rout still roiled Wall Street.

The market tumbled further after it failed to rally following the morning's selloff, said Peter Coolidge, senior equity trader at Brean
Murray & Co. People slimmed positions.

``It's just nervousness that the situation in Asia has not been stabilized, and it won't be because of the time difference,'' Coolidge said.

At 1348 EDT/1748 GMT the Dow was off 204.81 points or 2.56 percent at 7829.84.

``People are starting to think do they want to be long coming in tomorrow,'' Coolidge added.

Two sets of trading curbs, index arbitrage and sidecar, are already in place.

A third curb would only come into effect if there were a drop of 350 points. Trading would then be suspended for 30 minutes.

This additional curb has never been triggered.

The S&P 500 index was off 20.20 percent, or 2.07 percent, at 948.29.

The Nasdaq was down 2.34 percent or 40.01 points at 1668.07.

European stock exchanges fared worse on Thursday than New York's share markets amid Hong Kong's fallout.

London's FTSE100 ended more than three percent lower.

Germany's DAX index settled more than 4.6 percent weaker.

The U.S. long bond has been sharply higher as it benefited from flight-to-safety buying.

The bellwether index was up 1-4/32 to yield 6.33 percent, but off the day's highs.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:45
Lurker He who protests too much>(He who protests too much) ID#320102:
I wish I had a dollar for each time I've heard the words flight to quality.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:43
Ted @ TSE + the kitchen>(@ TSE + the kitchen) ID#364147:
TSE down 118.86 ( 1.66% ) ...Minestrone on the menU tonight....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:40
LGB @Broker Questions, Options, Ameritrade>(@Broker Questions, Options, Ameritrade) ID#269409:
Serious question. Anyone recommend a good brokerage house for PM options? Low comission no B.S. stuff? Also, has anyone been using the new $8.00 per trade online Ameritrade service? Considering switching ( time to start making some PM stock plays ) and wondering how well it's been working for users.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:36
GVC @kitco>(@kitco) ID#377421:
George S Cole: final hour rally would only increase the chances of more downside action to come...It's one of the tactics floor specialists use to give themselves opportunity to short more stocks ( for their own accounts ) at what will turn out to be very favorable prices.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:34
Ted @ Elf + CDE>(@ Elf + CDE) ID#364147:
CDE is gettin hammered....but my ABX is startin ta soar ( up 1/8 ) ....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:34
Miro @George Cole, DOW rally final hour>(@George Cole, DOW rally final hour) ID#347457:
Something tells me this won't be happening today. Today was not up and down movement and I think the fear is setting in. I would not be surprised is Dow dropped some more in the last hour.

Interest Rates?>(Interest Rates?) ID#401460:
Follow this thought:

If AG does not raise rates
Treasury rates will rise to compete anyway
He will have inflation to deal with
The price of Gold will rise as will Oil
THEY do not want this instability in price of Oil

If AG raises rates
He stops inflation
He will help US treasuries compete with higher rates abroad
He continues to control the price of Gold and Oil
He puts the Us Markets in the toilet

What do you think?

-->
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:34
HighRise
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:34
Lurker Down South>(Down South) ID#320102:
Brazil DOWN 7.33%; Mexico DOWN 5.53%

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:30
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:
GSC, LGB - The intra-day charts I'm looking at show in one minute intervals and a 20 min simple moving average. Everytime the line breaches the MA it hardly does so and then falls back below if not lower that the previous low, than at least longer below the MA than above it. Very weak. I don't see much of a rally at the end. With such as run in asia, who will bet against this tide? I see 2 - 2.5% drop in our markets to match the european market skids. As a few have pointed out our sled ride will start when we lose control of mind-share re our currency. Then bye-bye birdie!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:30
Woodchucker @EB>(@EB) ID#235159:
2-2 is right dude......Dow down 2-2-4

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:29
MoreGold @Where is he?>(@Where is he?) ID#348286:
OK, where's that cat with the DOW-8300 / GOLD-310 numbers.
Today is THE DAY. Time to produce.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:29
LGB @Allen>(@Allen) ID#269409:
Well don't go TOO far with that Averaging bashin Allen. It's made a lot of people a lot of money for a lot of years, Moi included. If I had a youngster just entering the workforce and he knew nothing about investments, I'd tell him to put as much into his 401K as possible into Mutual funds. Average in. Well, maybe not starting TODAY, but after the next BIG downturn....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:26
LGB NasDaq, Mark of the BEAST>(NasDaq, Mark of the BEAST) ID#269409:
Just checked Nasdaq and it was at 1, and 666!! VEWY scawy! Especially on the eve of Halloween week!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:25
MoreGold @Allen>(@Allen) ID#348286:
Good one Allen...... HeHeHeHe Remember what your BMW drivin, cigar chompin, Gold bashin Broker says ..... buy the Dips.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:25
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
I say this market does not rebound in the final hour. It stays very close to where it is, over 190 or better for the day.

Anybody buying into to these dips will be toast.

Even the talking heads have to worry as do brokers who say, Yeah, c'mon in, buy the dips. People don't have long memories when they make money, the obverse is true when they lose money.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:23
Cyb Jeddak CybJeddak@aol.com>(CybJeddak@aol.com) ID#287193:
Tolerant1 & LGB thanks for your remarks. At first it takes real nerve and a thick hide to withstand the ridicule of buying stocks that are unloved. Then, after awhile when the results are in as with LGB's chip equipment stock price runup, confidence builds. The nervous part of buying low to sell later to the former mockers at higher and more fashionable prices goes away. Even to a trader, I urge buying precious metals stocks now for a long term buy and hold to create capital gains. This is the main route to building wealth. Of course continue to trade with a percent of available funds.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:17
arden ardengold@msn.com>(ardengold@msn.com) ID#201238:

THANKS VRONSKY - of all the days - today my cable company decides to install fiber optics so I don't have access to CNBC today. If it wasn't for your wonderful current charts I would be blind.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:15
Allen USA>(USA) ID#246224:
You guys are pathetic. This is not a crash. Its a healthy adjustment. The market is correcting itself. This will be the basis for a new bull market. We are basicly sound. The economy is stable. Just dollar cost average into this and you *WILL* be healthy, wealthy and wise. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

There was a sudden jolt, but after 20 minutes everything returned to normal. TITANIC


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:10
LGB @George Cole, DOW rally final hour>(@George Cole, DOW rally final hour) ID#269409:
George I think the DOW will stage a comeback in the final hour but it will be weaker than before. Final close will be in the range of a 130 to 160 point drop for the day.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:09
Éß Gunrunner?!? Where goes>(Gunrunner?!? Where goes) ID#2082:
Gun, Are you cashing in some on your ¿¿Marks It's offsetting my ¥en...it will be just a ( small ) matter of time before they are both moving in the same direction. I will buy more ¥en if it hits .8250±...¡Öh M¥!

What a time for the seasoned currency trader!! I wish I was one...

away...to do my homework...
Éß$$

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:07
Varvara Aladdin@Javanet.com>(Aladdin@Javanet.com) ID#428142:

DBC News
Metz: Buy gold

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:06
Ted @ back from wood pile>(@ back from wood pile) ID#364147:
Talkin head ( Bob Cazani ( sp ) CNBC just said gold is not the safe-haven it used to be...bla bla bla...Dow down 202....where's our 3-1-0 + 8300 boy genius of kitco?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:04
LGB @CybJeddek>(@CybJeddek) ID#269409:
Cyb re your 13:06. Have to agree with you. The buy low sell high is such a basic concept, yet the investor at large never seems to follow it, One of the most profitable plays I've had in the past 2 years of this bull, was to put some of my discretionary funds into Semiconductor Manufacturing Equipment stocks when they were out of favor and languishing at a bottom, just a year and a half ago! . ( Watkins Johnson, LAM research, Applied MAterials ) . All skyrocketed in a matter of months as the Bokk to Bill ratio in the chip market rose. Applied for example rose 400% in LESS THAN A YEAR!!

The same concept can be applied to any undervalued, overdue market sector. Right now, Gold & Silver mining stocks, and the Precious metals themselves look mighty find. I've made a lot of money on the DOW for years, all the while ridiculing the hard money Doom and Gloomers who have missed this great Bull market, but now I see the tide turning, and I intend to be in the PM's and mining stocks till we have a very major correction in the Equities.

Someday the resumption of the DOW bull will begin again and when the time is right I'll be back in it, but for now it has nowhere to go but down. Silver however, has no where to go but UP!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 14:03
kiwi Boomer Dipsters Listen to Niel>(Boomer Dipsters Listen to Niel) ID#194311:
...you keep me searching for a heart of Gold,
and I'm getting old

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:52
George Cole final hour rally>(final hour rally) ID#42953:
ALL: For quite awhile now big drops such as today's have been cut sharply by strong final hour rallies. Interesting to see if this pattern holds.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:45
John Disney jdisney@iafrica.com>(jdisney@iafrica.com) ID#24140:
To All

I'm curious that no one has mentioned my glorious
leader's visit to Colonel Ghadaffi. Mandela
says that US sanctions against Libya are immoral.
This man has the world's smallest brain. But the
liberals love him. Because he is so PHONEY. And you
think I worry what will happen when he GOES. It's
a question of surviving until that happens. What a
jerk.
By the way Anglos quarterlies are out tomorrow
and they apparently all made money. Gee. And I hear
Barrick despite the worlds lowest costs and the worlds
highest hedged prices LOST money. Maybe when Mandela
kisses off he can get a job with BARRICK. Two really
overrated items.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:42
HighRise We Are Going Down>(We Are Going Down) ID#401460:
Dow -225
NASDAQ -41
S&P -24

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:40
The Major @Pissed Gorillas(Bulls) In The Mist(Dark)>(@Pissed Gorillas(Bulls) In The Mist(Dark)) ID#372425:

What an interesting day.The spin-doctors are pulling out all the stops
now as the 200 DOW ( N ) mark was struck.No panic..buying opportunities....
no real affect long term...lets dig up the good news stories boys,can't
tell the folks what's really happening,wouldn't want to cause a pancake
now would we.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
George Cole the greenback>(the greenback) ID#42953:
Larryn: You are absolutely correct about the pivotal role of the dollar. This is the key variable. As long as the greenback holds up, declines in the U.S. stock market will be contained as will gold rallies. With the dollar down just a bit and bonds strong, today's action probably is not the beginning of the big bear for U.S. stocks or the big bull for gold. Rather just a continuation of the topping process for equities and the bottoming process for gold.

When U.S. stocks drop big time WITH BONDS AND THE DOLLAR FOLLOWING -- that will mark the start of the equity bear and the gold bull. I agree with D.A. that we probably will have to wait a few months for this scenario to begin. Still too soon to chase gold rallies.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
kiwi Prof. H/C>(Prof. H/C) ID#194311:
Come out of the closet and stop meowing...when do those trading stops come in on the DOW...-250 I wanna see that...32% and dropping like a turd.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
Arik down tick rule>(down tick rule) ID#255383:
Can someone confirm that the market closes for a half hour when dow declines 250 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
kiwi Prof. H/C>(Prof. H/C) ID#194311:
Come out of the closet and stop meowing...when do those trading stops come in on the DOW...-250 I wanna see that...32% and dropping like a turd.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:30
Arik down tick rule>(down tick rule) ID#255383:
Can someone confirm that the market closes for a holf hour when dow declines 250 points

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:24
John jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#252110:

Firms resist Year 2000 disclosure.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/118726.asp

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:23
LGB @CRash, metals not responding>(@CRash, metals not responding) ID#269409:
Interesting that XAU is barely up on moderate volume and Silver/Gold down as this 2% drop in our market takes place amidst the chaos overseas. Does this bode poorly for PM rally hopefulls?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:20
vronsky THE COVERT GOLD COST OF OIL by Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid>(THE COVERT GOLD COST OF OIL by Sheik Abu Bekr al-Rashid) ID#426220:
This study gives material support to ANOTHERs hypothesis that there is a definite relationship between stable oil prices and gold's dwindling value in past years - the LBMA mystery continues, albeit another onion-layer of subterfuge peeled back:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials/gold_cost_oil.html


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:19
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
CYB- Your post was excellent. Well done and thought out. Thanks for posting it.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:16
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Ok -- I think what we need NOW is a very positive announcement from ANY of our junior gold companies of a very positive find. Publicity, publicity, publicity -- yes, that would get things going. So any juniors ( or majors for that matter ) monitoring this site, please feel free to get you press releases out TODAY.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:15
to kiwi are you feckless as well as flightless?>(are you feckless as well as flightless?) ID#374108:
Oh, Kiwi, where did it go so wrong?

Dow up 32% from the beginning of the year
Gold down 32% from the beginning of the year

When the Hong Kong market falls as much,
they call it a crash. What would you call it?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:12
LGB @Crash>(@Crash) ID#269409:
Glad I sold yesterday on a 2 day play, but any remaining stock bulls would buy today if they are REAL men!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:08
kiwi China shorting Hong Kong dollar?>(China shorting Hong Kong dollar?) ID#194311:
Makes sense....shake out all the western money and then swoop in and pick up the bargains...well and truly back in the fold then...Taiwan next on the block...hey maybe it's them all along...them and cowboy Soros...do the Muslims really have a death threat on his head? That would let Salmon Rush-to-die off the hook.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:08
John jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#252110:

Highrise,

Agree with you on your assessment of AG's predicament. He will have to allow some inflation to creep back in. To do anything to hold inflation in check would invite a premature market meltdown.

I caught an interview with Stephen Leeb on the Tony Brown Journal last Saturday. He was echoing your thoughts exactly. He is predicting an increase in inflation by either the end of this year or the first half of next year. He sees oil going up to as high as $50.00 a barrel. He was recommending energy sector stocks, gold stocks, small cap stocks, and zero coupon bonds or bond funds ( shades of Warren Buffet ) .

Lastly, he sees the market eventually crashing no matter what happens. All the Fed can do is postpone it, not prevent it.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:07
Elrod @my wits end>(@my wits end) ID#173274:

So who is selling silver in the midst of chaos? Can it be that some of our Asian friends are cashing in precious to buy cheao paper in the hope that the troubles are temporary?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:06
Cyb Jeddak CybJeddak@aol.com>(CybJeddak@aol.com) ID#287193:
LONG VIEW: Keynes said we would all be dead. Well, until then, the long view for the precious metals/hard assets & natural resource stocks is up & has been for quite some time now. The dynamics of the world economies & stock markets can be manipulated for a period of time, sometimes a long period of time. But man cannot negate overriding fundamental forces that long term move markets. The simple fact is that the U. S. has inflation & has had it for a long time. For example M3 is up 9% for the last 12 months. IF you watch it the next few months it is going to accelerate as interest rates are not raised & liquidity pours into the market. We are entering a period where the FED will not be proactive. The FED will only act after the fact with each new incremental increase in the inflation rate. This of course is monetary inflation that we are experiencing, true inflation. Contrary to what you hear or may think, we have been experiencing price inflation. It is the DOW Bull Market. I read recently that 1 oz. of gold would buy the DOW average in 1980. It now takes about 24 ozs. Though after today it will be somewhat less. There are only four things that can happen. 1 ) Gold price will rise to reflect real value in stocks. 2 ) DOW will plunge to equate its' value in gold. 3 ) Gold will rise & DOW will fall until an equilibrium is reached. 4 ) DOW will correct very sharply & gold will rise. Then, the DOW will begin to rise with gold rising at a faster rate. This would be rising markets attempting to stay ahead of inflation.

Gold made a low in Nov. of 1992 at $ 320. It tested again this year at $ 317. Now it seems to be testing again. My belief is that this is the bottom. There are many fundamental reasons. However, focus on one fact. At $ 320.00 many mines in production have already been closed. Fact is that South African gold production for the last quarter is off 100 tons from same quarter last year. Now if you are a Central Banker, Government Official, or anyone else with a reason to sell gold for the sake of holding the price down or making your books look good, you are willing to meet non production demand if it is 10% or about 33.3% as recently. But Are you willing to supply 50% plus of demand not met by mines that are closing? No of course not. You would be a fool. Therefore gold has a bottom & has reached it. Any significant decline say to $ 250 would be extremely bullish as it would shorten the time dramatically for a new bull market in gold to start & break out of the trading channel it has been in for so many years.

Many of the arguments in chat rooms pertaining to gold arise from a basic acknowledgement that one person is a day trader, another trades longer term, and some are buying on fundamentals to hold for long periods. Often a person does not state his investing strategy and from this disagreements arise even when sometimes all parties involved are in basic agreement.

Right now is the time to go long and hold precious metal stocks with very limited downside risk. Traders beware that we are reaching a range where gold may not break again to the downside as it has this trip down through the trading channel. No matter what your investing style, I wish the best for all.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:04
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
I wondered why Mike caller earlier than usual.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:01
JTF @the_turning_point -- $60T derivatives>(@the_turning_point -- $60T derivatives) ID#57232:
HighRise: Michael Metz doesn't seem to be speaking the party line -- how could he say that? He could spook the market! Seriously though, I think that really worries our AG. Over 1/3 - 1/2 of that $60T is unregulated OTC trading. Donald -- wait till you see what's happening -- China was the key after all!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:00
HighRise Thank you>(Thank you) ID#401237:
I stand corrected Jardine House is correct, Justine was a the name of one of my projects.
Thank You for the correction.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 13:00
Bird HK$ peg>(HK$ peg) ID#261444:
Tolerant1 Michael Metz just said the HK$ will float. Could be as early as tomorrow or this weekend.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:59
kiwi Now is the hour>(Now is the hour) ID#194311:
Over the top lads!...just not us chaps, cowardly Brits...we still remember gallipoli eh Nicks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:57
Éß Ted and Nick(in-the-can)>(Ted and Nick(in-the-can)) ID#2082:
I bet they were leading the guerilla...er...GO-rilla charge

Éß

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:56
Bernatz de Ventadorm Mix_Up@Hong_Kong>(Mix_Up@Hong_Kong) ID#25028:
For Monsieur HighRise-

You make reference to zee House of Justine in
Hong Kong. I zeenk you meex everyzing. I remembair
House of JARDINE by gar.
Justine was a character in zee book by monsieur
Larry Durrell who I worked wiz in Provence on several
of hees novels.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:54
Éß D.A.and.gorillas>(D.A.and.gorillas) ID#2082:
Some interesting analogies can be made at Kitco regarding that story. Strike a point for the GO-rillas...oh YES!

away...to beat the doors and windows...and shake the tree and see what falls out

Éß

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:53
HighRise 60 Trillion in Derivatives>(60 Trillion in Derivatives) ID#401237:
Michael Metz: The New Paradigm is over, there is 60 trillion in derivatives to unwind. Now a question of credit quality. Japan is really hurt by this

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:50
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
HighRise: You are right about your point - re flight to quality. We do have a situation where there will be a desire ( short term, anyway ) to buy dollars ( Us treasurys ) as a place of safety. However, we have a problem when Hong Kong ( and China ) sell their reserve dollars, or ask for more dollars from the IMF or?
Which will it be -- flight to quality, or a flood of dollars? I am glad I'm not the Fed Chairman, and I am glad we've probably got the best one we've ever had -- we are going to need his guidance for what is coming.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:49
Comment nascondido>(nascondido) ID#265110:
Now kiwi, don't be so hard on the bugger ( er ) - maybe he was just trying to *polarize* the forum again...?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:48
Éß Sorry Front>(Sorry Front) ID#2082:
Gold up 50.00¢...er...50¢...er...½buck...er...¼ two dollar bill...er...2 bits...er...a cup of coffee...er...not much...a small bag of M&M's...½ fair on the N.Y. subway...the L.A. times...two cans of cat food ( on sale ) ...a box of cheese noodles...yes Front you are right...it is still 50¢...sorry in delayed ( :- ) ) ...oh my!

away...to split hairs ;- )
Éß

well, now it's up 70¢...hmmmmmmmm...a rally in the making?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:46
Neil Jo'Burg>(Jo'Burg) ID#38970:
Dow dropping again ( -174 ) . The only green ..... XAU up 0.9%.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:44
kiwi Hey Crapcat>(Hey Crapcat) ID#194311:
INDU 8300...Gold 310...where did it all go so wrong?
Don't upset those Swiss...they got all the Gold.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:41
D.A. a.great.story>(a.great.story) ID#7568:
http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/102297/health35_4714_noframes.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:36
Richard Burke @Sunny Gulf of Georgia>(@Sunny Gulf of Georgia) ID#411318:
A. Goose: re your 11:27. Go to www.avidtrader.com to Heads Up Page.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:35
Neil Jo'Burg>(Jo'Burg) ID#38970:
Very interesting. An hour ago the headline on cnn.com screamed about the Crash in Hong Kong saying the Hang Seng had crashed 10.41%. Supplementary articles in the financial section all referred to the crisis in Asia. The headline has now been changed to Dow in Asian Bear Hug and the Hang Seng shed 10.41%. No more supplementary articles about Asian panic! Makes you think doesn't it?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:35
HighRise Inflation or Deflation>(Inflation or Deflation) ID#401237:
A Goose: Utilities were at an all time High. That I felt may have been a warning sign. I still am not sure on this inflation/ deflation situation, there are many aspects to each direction. AG is between a rock and a hard spot - raise or not to rasie. I feel that this environment is potentually good for Gold. AG has now an 87 situation if he raises he puts the market into the toilet. And, if he doesn't we will have inflation i.e. Boeing etc.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:27
D.A. one.small.point>(one.small.point) ID#7568:
All:

Notice that the Southeast Asian currencies are strong in the face of the HongKong debacle. This tells me that the devaluation has run its course. At 20% per annum, the Rupiah still looks very good.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:17
Front EB>(EB) ID#338452:
( :- ) )
EB:

Please stop doing what you're doing while posting the Gold prices ! You're really worrying me ! ( :- ) ) )

Gold is not up .50¢ .... It's up 50 cents .....

,50¢ is only ½ of a cent as in 1.50¢ is 1 ( point ) 50 cents then .50¢ is less than 1.00¢ ......

Not to worry, I see it in the stores all the time but ...... ( :- ) ) ) ) )

TTFN

Thanks in advance

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:13
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Minor point I am sure BUT utilities are down -2.44. As a leading indicator might not bode well for the bounds ?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:11
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
I say the HK$ is roadkill. I do not see the peg holding and it floats. Any comments

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 12:04
HighRise The Millennium>(The Millennium) ID#401237:
From last night

The Millennium
This item was just on the Tube - If Jesus the Christ was born in 4BC, as some have calculated, than today is the MILLENNIUM. Now that would explain everything.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:54
HighRise Where are the Brits when you need them?>(Where are the Brits when you need them?) ID#401237:
Flight to Quality the US, bonds, stocks, banks, etc. everything except commodities which is the only thing that is up - go figure? They are all trying to cover their ass.

Hong Kong bad news not over, no one knows were the bottom is, they may have to raise rates more. WE WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE TO COMPETE WITH THOSE RATES won't we?
They apparently have not used their reserves to support the currency. They have a huge reserve.
Hong Kong a different story what does that mean? Maybe they need to bring back The House of Justine. Bring back the Union Jack.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:42
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
panda :
What exactly does The TED ( Treasury-EuroDollar ) spread is around .91 mean. Sorry maybe its because I haven't got much sleep the last couple of days ( more likely I just don't understand ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:41
Skylark FWIW>(FWIW) ID#93130:
Today's behavior in gold is far from Bullish. With gold near its trend bottom and in view of incipient seasonal demand, the Asian currency crisis and fall in the DOW, gold should have jumbed a lot higher and should not have tailed off as it has. Stocks are also not doing that well, Many ie ABX substantially off from the highs of the day, and the secondaries are not moving at all. Thus, today's activity to time date, does not bode well for an imminent rally. Perhaps this is due to a reduction in physical demand from the East. As well known, it is the East, not the West, which is providing the physical demand for gold. With the fall of Asian currencies, as JIN as aptly informed us, funds available to purchase gold have been seriously reduced and it is now widely reported that the demand for gold rising from the East has been and will sharply be reduced during the second half of 97.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:36
panda @TED spread>(@TED spread) ID#30116:
The TED ( Treasury-EuroDollar ) spread is around .91. Is somebody lacking some confidence?

As EB would say... AWAY! To lunch............

Oil / Gold>(Oil / Gold) ID#401237:
I see that they are again selling more gold to keep the price of oil down. Pulling CRB down.

Buy the way interestrates were raised in asia last night.
NASDAQ not being hit particularly hard right now CNBC talking head @-30 looks like a pretty hard HIT to me.

-->

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:35
HighRise
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:33
BillD Kitco G/S prices?>(Kitco G/S prices?) ID#258427:
Has anyone ( besides me ) lost the display at the top of the screen of the Kitco Gold and Silver spot prices Whine!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:29
Éß ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡GOLD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>(¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡GOLD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ID#2082:
.50¢

away...to mortgage my house
Éß

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:27
Larryn Bond rates>(Bond rates) ID#316232:
GARY.. Good comments on the early bond market being small enough to be manipulated. I have noticed this year that quite often as a metals rally starts to move, the next day opening bond rate is low and the rally fizzles. I have felt that these bond rallies were certainly convenient for someone who did not want gold to rally. You may have hit it on the head. Current rate at 6.33

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:27
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Would some the technical types cooment on the technical damage done to the Industrials assuming we close below or around 7900 today. I think it might be significant, but I need more experienced eyes.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:23
Bunker Hunt Senate Hearings>(Senate Hearings) ID#205268:

Senator, Me and my brother, Nelson, were only trying to by a little silver like my buddy Jerome Smith told me to do......No Senator, we were not trying to corner the market, just accumulating physical silver...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:21
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
D.A.: Excellent 10:57 post. Appreciate your taking the time to explain to us what is happening on the other side of the world. You clearly understand the international situation. Any thoughts why gold is not going up more? My guess is that our AG is behind the scenes, trying to keep the turmoil from spreading to the shores of the western world.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:10
Éß ......Thanks for the seasoned commentary.....>(......Thanks for the seasoned commentary.....) ID#2082:
D.A. - your 10:57 was a print. ¡GO man GO!

away
Éß

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:09
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
I find it most interesting that silver is posting a downward movement. Silver is not considered a money metal or a store of value. Gold is so misunderstood and silver even more so.



Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:05
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
All: Who is pushing gold bullion down now? Is someone supporting the dollar? Or is is more subtle - is someone supporting the stock market?
Is this going to continue until 1998?
Interesting times we are in!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:04
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
DA - solid thinking, and I agree. I have already said I see $400 dollar gold by mid February, once she breaks $340 - $360 it's a slide into homeplate at $400 in my opinion. And that's if it takes that long.

The metals will join the exhubarence at long last and be revalued to come more in line with the rest of the universe.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:03
Éß ¿¿What's all the commotion>(¿¿What's all the commotion) ID#2082:
I knew last night that the kitcoites would be hanging from the chandeliers this a.m. ( my a.m. ) . Now will you guys crawl down from such heights and resume your doom and gloom. When the dust settles today the only thing gained will be a headache and the uncontrollable urge to 'spew groceries'. Might I suggest you read Nick's 10:32. And let's w/w for the next few days to see what happens...good Lord...

Gold is a DOG...and if rallies...it will only be to 300-331 before it resumes it's usual course...in the elevator...to the basemant parking structures...

...how's that for hot-air mate ;- )

away...to buy the heng sang...er...hung song...er...hang seng...
Éß$

mornin' woodchucker...it's 2-2...and boiling...


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 11:03
HighRise GE-Federal Reserve>(GE-Federal Reserve) ID#401237:
AL: Slimeballs is your word not mine. Who owns GE and the Federal Reserve? It is just business as usual. Read past posts on this site re this subject. A lot that is happening explains why they felt NAFTA was/is so important. Nationalism does not fit any more, it is now Continentalism.

Flight from tragedy US treasuries a safe haven Flight to quality
Excellent way to get people to buy bonds when you are about to raise interest rates.

We have no inventories, we don't make anything. China has all of the inventory - prices on goods will go even lower. How many pairs of tennis shoes do we need. Each baby boomer has 4 pair in the closet. not AP news. mine.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:57
D.A. some.thoughts>(some.thoughts) ID#7568:
All:

The most important point about today's action is the interest rate curve. As investors cash in their asset chips in Honk Kong and SE Asia, money is flowing into US debt. In addition to the direct effect of lower interest rates as a result of this capital flight, there is now an obvious impediment to the FED raising interest rates. Any rise in short rates here will only exacerbate the problem that the powers that be in Hong Kong have in trying to defend the currency peg. With Msrs. Greenspan et al accutely aware that a global market meltdown is a real possibility they will err on the side of caution. What this does is once again pour fuel on the economic fires that are burning brightly in this country. Lower rates, more liquidity, more growth = more inflation. The final act of this play does not occur until it is clear to the markets that inflation has really arrived. With the CRB and the GSCI moving strongly of late this should not be too long. The rise in metals prices which we are all looking for will be as a result of this inflation and the subsequent unwinding of our asset bubble. As has been the case with all the Southeast Asia countries, when your asset bubble deflates so does your currency. The price of your real estate and stocks goes down in world terms but the price of worldwide tradeable stuff ( commodities ) goes soaring. So too will it be here in the good ole USA.

Along these lines we have just had a rate cut in China and one in South Africa. The rate cut in China is quite significant and will likely boost GDP in that country in the coming quarters. With the Hong Kong debacle underway there may be more cuts in the offing so as to supply liquidity to that market. The model for all this activity is 1987-1989. In that period of time the central bankers supplied copious quantities of money to stave off any sort of deflationary collapse. In doing so they created extremely strong economic environments resulting in the asset bubble in Tokyo and inflationary pressures throughout the world. The same will likely occur today.

When our bubble finally does go pop and the dollar with it, we will be treated to the same problems as are now occuring in Asia. Declining local asset prices ( stocks, real-estate, etc ) and rising commodity prices due to the declining dollar. This double whammy will be the flip side of the virtuous cycle we have seen here for many years.

I don't believe the major decline in the stock market will occur until the bond market wakes up and notices the incipient inflation. The market collapses in Southeast Asia have served to postpone this day, although it is rapidly approaching. Look for the stocks to grind sideways while the bond market digests the cross currents but ultimately focuses on rising prices. The endgame should play out over the next 3-6 months. Between now and then commodities should continue to rise.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:56
jfklasjf jfdklas;>(jfdklas;) ID#251213:
Since the Canadian dollar is up; the up move in gold is real

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:55
Gary gary30@ix.netcom.com>(gary30@ix.netcom.com) ID#424231:
US Bond market is easy to manipulate! Overnight, volume is some 15,000 contracts. During US trading volume is about 500,000. Lets see if they can keep prices up. I bet they cannot ( notice the gradual decline ) !

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:54
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Talking heads of CNBC plus all those shown on CNBC saying all is well and market has bounced quite nicely. Industrials -123 at the moment low was 7858 now 7910. The day is young though - may be lower than they think.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:54
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
The world is awash with dollars, the biased entertainment paradigm machine is running full speed. Don't hold your breath until the 29th with Mr. Greenspan having already made his position clear.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:53
Larryn XAU quote>(XAU quote) ID#316232:
For those asking about the XAU quote, I use a bookmark set to :
http://www.tscn.com/wsc/timespan.html?TSym=XAU.X?106,15

It provides a graph of the last few days and an up-to-date accurate XAU value.

10:49
HighRise

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:46
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
Good point HighRise. I'm sure there has to be some group of slimeballs at GE with that objective.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:46
Larryn ...>(...) ID#316232:
As much as I enjoy riding my gold stocks up, the Dow slide will not be a collapse unless there is a flight away from the dollar, and this morning is seeing a return TO the dollar. Long term bond is up, rate was down from 6.42 to 6.29, now rising to 6.33. I agree with George Cole that this rally is not the big one unless the Dow craters and so far I don't see that happening yet. XAU and gold stocks jumped, but Joberg gold is level and there is no international flight to the metals yet. Don't bet your a... just yet.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:46
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
Good point HighRise. I'm sure there has to be some group of slimeballs at GE with that objective.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:45
Gary gary30@ix.netcom.com>(gary30@ix.netcom.com) ID#424231:
HighRise ( CNBC ) ID#401237 I agree with you! What is your email address?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:40
Amnesty @?>(@?) ID#251165:
URL dont work

) ID#401237:
CNBC Remember who their Boss is, GE and the boys.
This is turning into a good way to sell Bonds that are worthless. I was wondering how they were going to keep selling 50 Billion a week.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:39
George S Cole for president of the Heavily into Denial Club>(of the Heavily into Denial Club) ID#43496:
On a significant day like today, most of
the pundits' initial commentary will prove to
be incomplete or quite simply wrong.

Here is an observation, however, that will prove
to be the most remarkable shift in thinking
this century:

The flight to quality did not include gold

Face it, you lost

Oh, and one more thing:

Gold to $310 by 10/23/97
Dow to 8300 by 10/23/97

George - I could take your dismissal more
seriously if you: a ) weren't such a milquetoast
and b ) had a better track record. Your most recent
prediction ( Dow to drop by 1000 points ) was a lot
more incorrect than mine was, and you have already
conceded to Oldman that you were incorrect about
the Dow topping out for good in August.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:32
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
LATEST - WHY HK STOCKS CRASH? ( 23 OCT 97 )
http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~viclim/inv00010.htm


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:29
elf silver>(silver) ID#33180:
Look at silver drop. Ouch. Could that be Asians raising some cash by selling an asset with some value? Or PM traders raising cash to jump on the gold bandwagon? Anybody know?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:27
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
If you were getting hammered owning paper of any kind, and you we're Asian, would you buy more paper? Or as the Asians have done for thousands of years...buy metal.

The Asians are not too happy with the US right now, makes for an interesting trip for the Chinese fellow coming to the States.

Interesting with all of the talk about supplies and all that silver is the only one of the metals moving down on the chart above your screens. It is even more interesting when you consider that the planet knows silve is the single most volitile of the metals.

This debacle has not even touched the tip of the iceberg.

CNBC and other talking heads, plus brokers across the country are telling people even if the Asian markets stay down for a year or two it's effect on the US would be minimal at best. Buy tech stocks, buy the value found in strong companies in the tech sector which have real value now that they have been traded down is the advice of the day from the experts.

I pity the people that listen to them. Does the word whipsaw mean anything?


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:26
Eager Novice .>(.) ID#158273:
*jaw dropping as the spot prices begin dropping!*

Gee...maybe I dont understand as much as I thought I did! Can anyone explain this to me

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:26
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
http://avidtrader.com/opinion/heads-up.htm
Buyer's Remorse 101. Last week's trading offered several gap opens that were only met with selling, a lesson in retail promotions that are designed to mass-distribute product to the consumer. If our expectation that this bounce will lead to lower lows, then this week's lesson will be one that readers should already understand, Buyer's Remorse. The sales process has begun, and can be better understood by remembering back to one's last auto purchase. watch this hairpin turn, the salesman says, as a 180-point intra-day decline is more than halved in just hours. And check that odometer, you hear as Friday's late-afternoon 110-point rally from the lows adds 75 more points on Monday and then 140 on Tuesday. You almost wish there were no breaks so that you can enjoy this ride forever.

The bumps in the road ahead are visible to the eye, but you convince yourself that a car this luxurious will absorb any discomfort. So you make the purchase, and by the time you drive off of the lot the dark of the evening has arrived. Fumbling for the headlights ( for some reason the salesman never pointed them out ) , you find the switch and turn it. Nothing. You've entered traffic and knowing that the lights will surely respond within moments, you keep driving. But all of that fumbling is distracting, and a truck entering traffic neither notices nor is noticed. An extreme case of Buyer's Remorse is about to occur.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:25
George Cole volume>(volume) ID#42953:
Panda: High XAU volume very positive if maintained. Looks like the dips will grow shallower and shallower.

I still do not think gold will surge big time today unless the market really tanks ( Dow off 500 points or so ) . But our day isn't far off.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:19
Ted @ cordwood>(@ cordwood) ID#364147:
Time ta carry more cordwood into the basement ( it could be a looong winter ) ...BBL kiddies...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:16
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
BBL

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:14
ERNEST @ replyville>(@ replyville) ID#224228:
Just CNBC workin off a boner.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:14
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
Does anyone here get the feeling that all this $$$ coming out of Asia may find a place over here in the US markets?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:13
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Looks like we found some support here, $PREM is bouncing here. It will be interesting to see what the XAU/HUI do if there is a recovery of sorts here.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:13
StarShine CNBC Comments>(CNBC Comments) ID#285298:
Intstead of citing the XAU advace, CNBC chose to higlight the action of only a couple of XAU stocks. At this time, the only index positive is XAU. The bond is said to be where the flight to quality is occuring.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:12
Eager Novice *sitting in the back - watching with fascination*>(*sitting in the back - watching with fascination*) ID#158273:
*mumbling to the person next to me*

Shouldnt we be seeing Kitko's gold and silver spot prices responding to this rout by now?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:12
Norbert The Nark a grim day!>(a grim day!) ID#382159:
Things is so grim I gotta get STONED!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:10
sig sig@remington>(sig@remington) ID#287389:
Gorge Cole:

Re: your 9:47 post

Reasoned, unemotional advice!

Thanks.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:10
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Just ask yourself this question, Who is doing the selling here? Is it the Europeans and Asians? Are they exiting our markets? Who will be left holding the 'bag' if this is true? I know what I want in my 'bag'...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:09
steady voodoo-hits -the-fan>(voodoo-hits -the-fan) ID#285233:
MEN, remember the constipated CNBC anchers' famous comment this morning:
Bonds are way up:the flight to quality is under way!!!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:07
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Volume looks good for the 'Majors' in the golds.

ABX 408K+
PDG 239K+
HM 200K+

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:06
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
CNBC grudgingly admitted that the only group up IS THE GOLD GROUP. BUT not much they said and it shows that gold isn't favored like it used to be. Boy are they working the issue.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:06
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:
Dow down 179 and Long Bond up 1 + 4/32....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:04
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Hell of a bear candle on the 15 minute Dow chart....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:04
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
Thanks guys. I love days like this....Hope there will be plenty more.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:02
panda @XAU>(@XAU) ID#30116:
106.91 most gold stocks in the plus by 1/4 or more. They don't seem to be losing ground. Oil stocks not doing that well.. Tech stocks? Oh well.... my regrets to those owners.....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
elf XAU>(XAU) ID#33180:
Al: 107.05 +2.11

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Al:

xau is at 107.05 up +2.11 at this moment.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
Richard Burke @the Gulf of Georgia>(@the Gulf of Georgia) ID#411318:
To all: Careful, Dec gold at resistance after bounce up this morning. Dec silver back down to where it started after it's bounce up. This may not yet be the start.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 10:01
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Panda how many waves down on the dow tonight 3, 4, or 5

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:59
elf whipsaw>(whipsaw) ID#33180:
panda: The Dow, after opening down over 100, is now UP 5! The Dippers are busy today! IBM down about 2.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:59
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
$PREM just hit the skids again....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:59
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
XAU?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:58
panda @correction>(@correction) ID#30116:
UVOL = 3.5 million
DVOL = 61.6 million

AND I DON'T believe any of these numbers now. They're moving very strangely. Must be a big backup of data and oders....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:56
PISSED AS A FART @ slaughterhouse asia (I love that name)>(@ slaughterhouse asia (I love that name)) ID#221240:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHW@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:56
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
I'm showing down volume at 47.2 million and up volume at 2.6 million shares on the NYSE.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:55
Lurker @the_floor>(@the_floor) ID#241149:
Cherokee:
Are you ready to catch the little grey men...
BLL

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:55
Al ---->(----) ID#257114:
What is the XAU doing right now?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:54
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
elf -- I thought something like that was going on... It seemed to 'slow' at the open. The volume was there, but the prices didn't seem to make sense based the S&P futures.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:51
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Japan is considering tax incentives for stock options! Talk about trying to support the bubble!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:50
Varvara Aladdin@Javanet.com>(Aladdin@Javanet.com) ID#428142:



















23 Oct 1997



More turmoil until
problems tackled: experts

Asian markets hit by waves
of fund redemptions

SBC Warburg forecasts
2% growth for S'pore in
'98
 

Hongkong defends US$ peg but
fears mount it will snap

Interest rates soar, Hang Seng crashes 6.17% to 11,637.77

From Loh Hui Yin in Hongkong and Larry Wee in Singapore


ONGKONG's leaders yesterday rejected an unprecedented call by the
business community to delink the Hongkong dollar's peg to the US
greenback, even as interest rates soared and stock prices crashed for the
third day, this time by 6.17 per cent to 11,637.77 points.

Financial Secretary Donald Tsang, describing the Hongkong dollar as rock solid,
said: There is absolutely no pressure for me to move the link in any way. Any
speculation that I would do so, or even considering doing so because of export
reasons, is nonsense.

As regional currencies continue to plummet, the fixed HK dollar has eroded the
relative competitiveness of Hongkong exports and its tourism industry. This
prompted a call by James Tien, chairman of the Hongkong General Chamber of
Commerce, for a re-think on the peg -- the first time the business community has
questioned the 14-year-old link to the US dollar.

Mr Tien, a member of the provisional legislative council, was quoted by The South
China Morning Post as saying: Our manufacturing orders for January, February
and March next year have been slow in coming. Customers say they have shifted
their purchases to South-east Asian currencies because they are much cheaper, a
discount of 5 to 10 per cent.

But Financial Secretary Mr Tsang dismissed this, saying: Minor fluctuations, or
fluctuations of the kind we have seen in the currency market, would not affect
Hongkong's export potential or growth potential in a very big way.

Pointing out that the peg has served Hongkong well for the past 14 years, he said
the regional currency crisis has reinforced his conviction that it must be maintained.

We have, as you know, reserves of 80 odd billion US dollars ( S$126.8 billion ) .
We have no debt, said Mr Tsang after he opened a conference on China's service
industries yesterday morning.

He added that Hongkong investors were mature and should not heed the negative
comments of second-rate analysts.

Hongkong's chief executive, Tung Chee-hwa, speaking in London, was quoted by
news agencies as saying: Interest rates may have to go up in the process of
defending the currency. There is no reason for our currency to devalue.

But analysts appear less sure now that the peg will survive, following the recent fall
of two other key North Asian currencies, the New Taiwan dollar and the South
Korean won. As the only major Asian currency left with a fixed peg to the US
dollar, speculators have been betting that the peg of HK$7.8 to the US dollar will
snap if it becomes too costly to defend. In mid-July, the Hongkong Monetary
Authority ( HKMA ) spent US$1 billion to repel a lone speculator.

Traders have reported that some hedge funds have not only sold the Hongkong
dollar but have also piled up on HK dollar liquidity in the money market.
Yesterday's Hongkong dollar's one-year forward rate, which fixes the exchange rate
a year from now, went up further to HK$8.02 to the US dollar, reflecting the
highest risk premium in a long while.

Some analysts see the Hongkong government as being in a no-win situation. If
they keep on defending the currency peg, interest rates will rise, and that will hurt
the stock market, Bloomberg News quoted fund manager Christina Cheung as
saying. If they don't defend the peg, there will be capital flight and the impact will
also be disastrous. Ms Cheung added: Why should Hongkong be immune to a
currency devaluation? The cost of defending it is very high.

David Wong, ABN-Amro's treasury head for China and Hongkong, told BT that
Hongkong dollar purchases by the HKMA to defend its US dollar peg continued to
suck liquidity out of the system, pushing interest rates up into double-digit territory.
Against a prime rate of 8.75 per cent, we now have three and six-month interest
rates at 11.5 per cent, which is the cost of defending the peg. This will have a
punishing effect on property players, and therefore the stock market. An estimated
40% of the bourse's capitalisation is property-related.

The result yesterday was that equity investors stampeded to get out of the Hongkong
stockmarket from the opening bell, sending the Hang Seng Index down a whopping
6.17 per cent or 765.33 points to close at 11,637.77 on a turnover of HK$23.5b.

Does the market exist? Not the way they were selling today. It's like there won't be
a market tomorrow, said an institutional dealer.

Interest-rate sensitive finance and property stocks bore the brunt of the selling
frenzy, with the property sub-index falling by as much as 11 per cent or a drop of
2,185 points. Also hit were red chips and H shares when a rumoured flow of funds
from China to support the stock market did not materialise.

On the implications of a break with the US dollar, Tan Tian Seng, general manager
of Tat Lee Bank's Hongkong branch, said: This is certainly not the time to talk
about a de-link of the currency from the US dollar. It would come too quickly after
the transition. We know the peg is there to ensure stability after the transfer of
sovereignty.

Barclays' head of Asian currency research, Desmond Supple, summed up the views
of many when he told BT: It's really a test of Hongkong's political will now.







© Copyright Singapore Press Holdings Ltd, 1997. All rights reserved.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:50
elf no quotes>(no quotes) ID#33180:
panda: Trading curbs are in place at the open. Most S&P 500 stocks can't open due to order imbalance. Expect a much lower opening price on IBM and its index buddy stocks when the specialist finally finds a buy price at which to absorb the sell orders.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:49
panda @XAU>(@XAU) ID#30116:
107 taken out on the XAU....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:46
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
After El Reno goes after MSFT, it seems as though the Japanese government think it's a good idea too! So they're looking in to MSFT now....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:46
George Cole gold outlook>(gold outlook) ID#42953:
Ralph: Gold should do well today, but I doubt if a big surge is in the offing. The powers that be will be going all out to nip any rally in the bud. And it will take time to shatter investor confidence in U.S. financial assets. Many will see today's stock selloff as simply another buying opportunity. My strategy still is to buy the gold mutual funds on dips and not chase rallies.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:44
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
DBC is still not showing me a real time quote for IBM.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:44
2 @wonderin...>(@wonderin...) ID#194225:
Is this the Big One?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:44
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
GCZ7 gap up and breaking out ( :- ) ) ) ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:43
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
It's most bizare to watch this in real time! Talk about a controlled implosion............ Dow down 127.7 Nasdaq off 43+ ... It seems to be dropping in fits and starts. Looking for buyers or is it the curbs?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:42
vronsky Nikkei Breaks 17000 on GLOBEX 10-MINUTE>(Nikkei Breaks 17000 on GLOBEX 10-MINUTE) ID#426220:
Per GLOBEX at 08:01 today Nikkei Stock Average BROKE BELOW important support level... and now stands at 16980! Some Technical Analysts look to 14000 for next strong support.

Many market mavens have commented that below 17000 the Nippon Banking structure will begin to crumble, forcing banks to call in loans, forcing debtors to sell stocks and Real Estate ( loan collateral ) . This will obviously put additional pressure on the Nikkei as prices spiral down and feed on themselves. Looks like the ORACLE's observation is right on the money: Japanese Survival is indeed Between a Rock and a Hard Spot. Consequently, Japanese financial institutions led by the BOJ will be forced to dump liquidate their massive holdings of US Treasury bonds, AND MOST PROBABLY BUY GOLD PER PRIME MINISTER HASHIMOTO'S THREAT AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY EARLIER THIS YEAR. ORACLE's article series may be seen at:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/oracle627.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:39
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
What's the consensus? Gold up, dollar up, bonds up, market down?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:39
CC goldbug@ormetal.com>(goldbug@ormetal.com) ID#333303:
The stocks have always lead the metals, often by several months. This time is no different. The low was in April/July, and again the stocks are stronger and showing the way up. Silver and silver stocks are performing much better and will continue to do so. Pick up your horses..

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:37
2 @wild predictions>(@wild predictions) ID#194225:
Bullion: +4 samoleans.
XAU: +3.5

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:34
George Cole World Gold Council>(World Gold Council) ID#42953:
New from the World Gold Council:


Gold Portfolio Letter

No. 1 - September 1997


Gold and the Stock
Market:
A Negative Correlation

During this period of continual strength in the
stock market and weakness in the gold price, many
portfolio managers may question what role, if any,
gold can play in a portfolio.

 
We all witnessed the Dow's recent climb above 8,000, just
seven months after it topped 6,000. According to most
methods of stock valuation the market is at a high level. For
instance, P/E ratios are high and dividend yields are low by
historical standards. In contrast to today's high level of
equity prices, the gold price is perceived as being at a
relatively low level. Thus, the upside potential for gold
appears to be greater than the downside. These two thoughts
- high stock prices and low gold prices - are captured in the
chart below. This in turn begs the question: When will the
stock market next revert to the mean? ( that is, move
downward ) and when will gold move up?

 
Regardless of whether you are a bull or a bear, the mere
threat of a correction should alert you to the advantages of
diversifying a portfolio into alternative assets such as gold.

Why is gold such a helpful portfolio diversifier? The reason
is basic: the economic forces which determine the price of
gold are different from, and in many cases opposite to, the
forces which determine the price of financial assets. As
previously noted, when equities go up, the gold market tends
to go down-and vice-versa.

Indeed, if you are specifically concerned about a stock market
turn down, you may be aware that gold is an excellent hedge
- the most negatively-correlated asset to U.S. equities.



Furthermore, the chart below shows that gold is
negatively-correlated not only with U.S. equities but also
with most other asset classes. No other asset class can make
such a claim.



Whatever way you look at it, gold is definitely an excellent
scientific portfolio diversifier. It is superior to conventional
diversifiers such as bonds and put options. These subjects
will be covered in future editions of the Gold Portfolio
Letter.




For additional information contact:
Richard Scott-Ram, Economic Advisor
World Gold Council
900 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Tel. +212 688 0005, Fax. +212 371 5466
Or by e-mail: Daphne Bloore: DBloore@compuserve.com



 

The World Gold Council is a non-profit association of gold producers world-wide, with
headquarters in Geneva and offices in major markets around the world. The countries
monitored by the Council account for approximately 80% of global gold demand.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:34
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:
Long Bond up 1 + 18/32....Dow falling like a rock ( 17 ) with most Dow stox not opened yet....Nasdaq down 39...Dow down 25

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:31
arden ardengold@msn.com>(ardengold@msn.com) ID#201238:

Today we get to see how well the trading curbs work! My bet is they prolong they agony.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:30
Ralph nwmadras@ix.netcom.com>(nwmadras@ix.netcom.com) ID#403231:
Gold and silver price predictions...anyone want to guess today's action?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:28
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Not one mention from CNBC about gold rising in this crisi. They have only mentioned flight to treasuries. It will be hard to ignore rise in XAU once market opens -- I would imagine ( hope ) .

Marie ( CNBC ) talking now mentioning possible up stocks - not one gold stock mentioned. duPont, Viking office USAir are the stocks she mentioned as possible up stocks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:26
Ted @ Long Bond>(@ Long Bond) ID#364147:
Long Bond UP 1 + 13/32......three minutes till opening bell ( DONG )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:23
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
It's not often that you see this page all in red! http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/Stocks/

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:21
visiting (overload?)>((overload?)) ID#424452:
Folks: might I humbly suggest that posting of large news articles might clog up this site. Posting just the URL might be better. I'd like to keep watching here today!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:21
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
Talk about irony! As the sell-off continues and the Dollar gets stronger, those currencies linked to the Dollar come under more pressure to de-link from the Dollar. Yes, the currency gyrations have begun anew. And just remember, like any good liberal will tell you, Everything is relative... there are no absolutes. :- ) ) We shall see.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:19
nomercy Japan selling US bonds>(Japan selling US bonds) ID#390214:
VIEWPOINT: FOREIGN TREASURY DEMAND SLOWS
IN JULY


The U.S. Treasury has released the preliminary July data on foreign purchases and sales of
long-term Treasury securities. The data reveal a sharp decrease in the pace of net purchases in
July relative to the average for the year due, most likely, to hedge fund selling and fallout from the
SE Asian currency crisis. Net purchases for July were $5.2 billion, vs. $25.1 billion in June and a
$19.6 billion monthly average for this year.

The following outlines Treasury purchases by the top holders through July: The slowdown in net
Treasury purchases cut across both official institutions and private accounts. Private purchases
declined to $7.3 billion in July from $13.8 billion in June. Official institutions were net sellers of
$2.5 billion in July, vs. $10.1 billion net purchases in June.

The largest net buyer in July was Germany, whose holdings increased by $6.5 billion following the
$1.4 billion net purchases in May. The UK was the second largest net buyer, although its
purchases declined to $3.0 billion from $4.9 billion in June, and these figures are well below the
1997 average of $6.4 billion. Overall, Europe remained a strong net buyer of Treasuries. Net
purchases from Europe were $12.2 billion -- a solid increase over the $10.4 billion level in June
and the $10.1 billion average for the year. Other strong buyers in Europe included Spain and the
Benelux countries.

Japanese demand for Treasuries decelerated in July, with a decline in net purchases to $2.6
billion. This was well below both the $6.0 billion level reported for June and the $5.1 billion
average for 1997. Overall, Asia was a net seller of Treasuries for the first time this year. July net
sales of $3.3 billion brought average net purchases for 1997 down to $8.8 billion. Nearly all
Southeast Asian countries remained net sellers of Treasuries in July due, most likely, to ongoing
regional currency troubles, and official sales of dollar-denominated securities to free resources for
support of domestic currencies. Large Asian sellers of Treasuries included mainland China ( -$1.8
billion ) , Malaysia ( -$1.3 billion ) , Singapore ( -$0.7 billion ) , and Taiwan ( -$0.6 billion ) .

The Caribbean banking centers ( known mainly for hedge fund activity ) were net sellers of
Treasuries in July, accelerating the downtrend in purchases from June. Bermuda was the only
buyer noted in the region, pulling in $1.8 bln in July after selling $1.4 billion in June. The
Netherland Antilles and the British West Indies led the list of sellers, shedding $4.1 billion and
$1.1 billion, respectively.

MMS expects little near-term change in the composition of demand for Treasuries. Steady
growth, dollar strength, and benign inflationary pressures should help maintain a healthy global
demand for Treasuries. Despite recent European interest rate hikes, existing yield differentials
should continue to support foreign purchases of Treasuries.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:19
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Thanks Panda. Makes sense. Not enough sleep I guess.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:17
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Ok. I get volume of 4,294,967,144 for $325.2 at 614 PST from Quote.com. That seems like an unbelieveable volume ... probably a mistake Could have help on this one.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:16
panda @>(@) ID#30116:
A.Goose -- Try this URL for the futures. It's delayed about half an hour. It looks like about 19,000+ contracts so far.
http://www.dbc.com/cgi-bin/htx.exe/core/dbc/squote.htx?SOURCE=core%2Fdbc&TICKER=pa%3Dz7+pl%3Df8+gc%3Dz7+si%3Dz7+cl%3Dz7&tables=table&format=fractions

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:13
223 fireside chat>(fireside chat) ID#263259:
In today's bonfire of the vanities I'm just here to roast marshmallows.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:13
panda @!!!>(@!!!) ID#30116:
Spin control has started in the business news, The good news is that Bonds are up! Such good news. I've said for the last year plus, Wouldn't it be funny if the interest rates came down and the stock market 'corrected'. :- )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:11
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
George cole or Anyone else:
Can you give us the volume that is trading in the gold pits this morning. Volume I got does not sompute.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:08
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
They will fight gold hard today. Buy your gold while it still is at these levels. Once it starts its move up, I don't think it is going to step back for anyone to pick it up at these bargin prices. IMHO.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:05
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
MachF15:
I just got them off of CNBC as the announced them.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:02
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Ever have that feeling in your gut when you look over the edge of a.....
Nick @Cairns luv them ANZ puts CBA too plus...

....my precious

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 09:02
Ray raydm@iamerica.net>(raydm@iamerica.net) ID#411149:
The CNBC cast look ill today and Mark Hanes looks like he has terminal
meltdown disease!

Hey cherokee, looks like you are right on target!
Deer season starts this Saturday and then I hope to finish the book you recommended I read A Rich Man's Secret. For those that don't know what
I mean, still hunting offers a good time to catch up on my reading pile
while waiting for the big buck to show.

Tally Ho

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:57
MachF15 machf15@nicom.com>(machf15@nicom.com) ID#275253:
A.Goose,
Where do you get you S$P futures quotes from?

MachF15

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:56
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Thursday October 23 7:05 AM EDT

U.S stocks in London fall, Dow seen hit by HK woes

LONDON, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - U.S. stocks were marked down across the board on Thursday as investors braced for a weaker opening in New York after Hong Kong's dramatic plunge continued.

``The markets are in complete turmoil,'' said one trader. ``Sentiment is changing and we expect to see selling pressure at the start taking 80-100 points off the Dow.''

European bourses suffered in the aftermath of Hong Kong's slide, following the Hang Seng's worst ever points loss. Soaring local interest rates and fears of a run on the Hong Kong dollar were blamed for the crisis.

The Hang Seng has lost about a third of its value since the beginning of the month whilst the Dow has continued to notch up record highs.

``The early indication is that the Hong Kong turmoil will hit the Dow today,'' another dealer said. ``On most occasions Wall Street leads other markets but today it will be the other way around.''

``There are some huge, huge companies in the States with Asian exposure, we have already seen some hi-techs suffer in these markets during this quarter.''

The December S&P index future was trading 14.4 points lower by 1042 GMT but in a ``flight to quality'' the December T-bond future rose more than a point.

``U.S. bonds are up heavily, we are seeing a flight to quality,'' said a dealer. ``But though there is usually a big correlation between bonds and stocks, as yet the move in bonds is not spilling over.''

``Everybody is waiting to see what the Americans make of Hong Kong,'' he added. ``Their economy is doing very well and the U.S. market is usually very blinkered...but our clients are getting nervous, wondering if this is the start of something global.''

Among individual share features in London, traders said activity remained slim.

``Corporate news has gone out of the window this morning and not surprisingly, nobody wants to put up prices, its a very nervy market.''

``But the Americans have been tuned into buying on dips recently, so let's see if they do that this afternoon.''

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:55
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Thursday October 23 7:43 AM EDT

Hong Kong sacrifices economy to currency link

By Sarah Davison

HONG KONG, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - Hong Kong will have to raise interest rates even higher to defend the Hong Kong dollar link to the U.S. currency, sacrificing its economy in favour of long-term financial stability, economists said.

Thursday's stock market crash, the largest one-day fall in history, left confidence in tatters as regional currency jitters jacked up Hong Kong rates.

Economists are cutting economic growth forecasts and waiting for the next major development with markets buckling under the interest rate burden exacted by the Hong Kong dollar peg.

``If the negative approach to the Hong Kong market continues for a protracted period of a few weeks, we're looking for a pretty rough 1998,'' said Ian Perkin, chief economist at the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce.

The blue chip Hang Seng index ended 1,211.47 points or 10.41 percent lower at 10,426.30. The index has shed more than 23 percent in the last four trading sessions, plunging as interest rates soared. One-month interbank rates reached 47 percent while overnight money leapt to 250 percent.

But economists said rates will have to rise even higher to maintain a defence of the Hong Kong currency, which has been linked to the U.S. dollar at a rate of HK$7.80 since 1983.

``The peg to the U.S. dollar, with U.S. dollars fully funding the Hong Kong currency, will stay,'' said Jan Lee, chief economist at Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corp.

``The net result is that interest rates will go up in the immediate term by at least 0.5 percentage points, and down the road even higher,'' he said.

Higher rates will trash the stock and property markets, depressing the entire economy just months after Hong Kong returned to China after 156 years of British colonial rule.

Lee has cut his 1998 economic growth forecast to 4.75 percent from 5.5 percent, becoming one of the few Hong Kong economists brave enough to identify clear economic targets in an uncertain outlook. Some said they had a variety of forecasts depending on a number of different scenarios.

``Our assumption is the peg still holds but the degree of damage inflicted varies,'' said Michael Taylor, economist at broker W.I. Carr.

And the degree of damage depends largely on how long interest rates remain high.

``How long is a piece of string?'' asked Perkin. ``Once these things start it's very difficult to put a time on them.''

Attempts by Hong Kong banks to restrict outflow of domestic capital by refusing to redeem time deposits before maturity were criticised as the wrong route to recovery.

Although the measures could help to prevent the mass exit of domestic capital -- considered the only serious threat to the currency link -- economists said they would heighten nervousness by undermining the established market mechanism.

``The way a currency board works, if people don't want to hold your currency, you raise rates until they do,'' said Don Hanna, chief economist at Goldman Sachs.

``Ultimately you're going to have to raise rates ... If you circumvent the process it only delays ( recovery ) .''

Hanna joined other economists predicting a severe dent in Hong Kong's property market bubble -- something that could ultimately work to the territory's advantage.

``The issue of competitiveness and the cost of doing business in Hong Kong -- clearly the rise in interest rates is going to have an impact on that,'' Hanna said.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:53
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
Thursday October 23 7:45 AM EDT

N.Y. metal futures opening forecasts

NEW YORK, Oct 23 ( Reuters ) - New York metals futures were called to open as follows:

COMEX Dec gold - up $2.00 an ounce

COMEX Dec silver - up 4.0 cents

NYMEX Jan platinum - up $1.00

NYMEX Dec palladium - up $1.00

COMEX Dec copper - up 0.10 to 0.20 cent a lb

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:53
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Look at that nice kitco 24 hour gold chart as it heads into wall street.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:52
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Gold 324.25

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:41
Ted @ Dec. Gold>(@ Dec. Gold) ID#364147:
Up 1.90

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:34
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
If Yahoo is correct and up to date we've got a Kraut meltdown ( -4.66% ) and a Pommie ho-hum ( -.60% ) . I would have thought the reverse with the greater British exposure to Hong Kong. Any comment from wiser souls

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:31
vronsky THE GOLDBUG IS THINKING SILVER>(THE GOLDBUG IS THINKING SILVER) ID#426220:
Acclaimed Compuserve Gold & Silver King has returned from the North Woods to share his considerable wisdom. He's found a pure silver play worth watching:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/goldbug903.html


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:26
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Ted--I only get drunk on days when I make a lot of money. I'm sober as a church mouse right now!!!

DAX -4.66%
Poms have come back FT-SE -.70%
J'burg gold + .90%

That's IF you believe Yahoo!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:21
panda @Uh Oh...>(@Uh Oh...) ID#30116:
Cascade failure

BBL.........

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:19
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Nick:
Yes Woodside has been very good to me. I just have a tiny amount but I am happy with it. I also have Westgold and ofcourse, I am not quite so happy with it so far, BUT what the hey.

I am running out of steam - only got 2 hours sleep last night. Guess I will search out some coin dealers in the San Francisco area today. Maybe buy bulk silver coins.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:19
Ted @ Nick(C)>(@ Nick(C)) ID#364147:
Are YOU flippin out mate? and to include EB in the attack too ( tsk tsk tsk ) ---are ya a nasty drunk

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:15
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Sorry Ted-- that was the Victoria Bitter talkin' It's 10:15 pm here and it was a loooooooong day on the markets, mate. I've still got my ass ( ets ) intact--but only just!!! I want to THANK the feller what invented PUTS!!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:09
Ted @ WSJ + Hang Seng>(@ WSJ + Hang Seng) ID#364147:
Hot off the press:
October 23, 1997

Hang Seng Index Drops 10%,
Triggered by Economic Fears

An INTERACTIVE JOURNAL News Roundup

Hong Kong stocks suffered their worst fall in a decade Thursday in a burst
of panic selling triggered by sharply higher interest rates and fears that the
vibrant Hong Kong economy may be rocked by turmoil elsewhere in Asia.

The key blue-chip index, the Hang Seng, fell as much as 14% in early
trading before recovering slightly to close off 1211.47, or 10%, to
10426.30, its lowest level in 19 months. The index has shed a total of
23% this week.

Hong Kong's tumble hammered Tokyo's Nikkei Stock Average, which
dropped 3%. Share prices also were battered in Malaysia, Singapore,
Indonesia and the Philippines.

In reaction to Hang Seng's plunge, key European markets opened sharply
lower. By midday in Europe, London's Financial Times-Stock Exchange
100-Share Index was down nearly 3%, while Frankfurt's key DAX shed
more than 4%.

Analysts said the Hang Seng's plunge raised
the question of whether Hong Kong can
continue to insulate itself from turmoil seen in
the rest of Asia.

Hong Kong investors recently have been
rattled by fresh worries about the stability of
the country's currency. The Hong Kong
market's drop Wednesday was blamed chiefly
on worries about the strength of the Hong
Kong dollar's peg to the U.S. dollar, following
comments by local business leaders about the
viability of the peg.

Market participants are considering whether
or not Hong Kong -- long thought to be a market relatively independent of
Southeast Asian woes -- should now to be lumped together with its
neighbors. Asian-Pacific currencies have suffered from selling speculation
after Thailand decided to float the baht.

Hong Kong cannot be disintegrated from Asia and should not be
considered as a safe haven in these circumstances, said Stephen Leung,
chief investment officer at Barclays Global Investors Ltd.

Hong Kong's chief executive, Tung Chee Hwa, ruled out any devaluation
of the Hong Kong dollar and said he is prepared to see interest rates rise
to defend the currency.

He reiterated that his government ''has absolutely no intention of any kind''
to change the Hong Kong dollar's link to its U.S. counterpart. Mr. Tung,
calling the currency turmoil a tremendous challenge, said Hong Kong
wouldn't try to ''become competitive through devaluation.''

In an effort to rein in soaring local interest rates, Hong Kong's three
currency-issuing banks announced identical 0.75% rises in their key
lending rates Thursday.

Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corp., Standard Chartered Bank, and
Bank of China each said they will raise their prime rates to 9.50% from
8.75%, effective Friday. Hang Seng Bank Ltd., which, like Hongkong
Bank, is part of the HSBC Holdings PLC banking group, also said it
would raise its prime lending rate.

Thursday's announcement was unusual, since it came before the banks
meet with other members of the Hong Kong Association of Banks, the
local rate-setting body. The Association also generally doesn't move to
change rates until after the U.S. Federal Reserve Board and the Hong
Kong Monetary Authority adjust their rates.

Banks' prime rates last moved on March 26, when they rose by 0.25
percentage point.

Meanwhile, the overnight Hong Kong Interbank Offered Rates rose to
270% from 5% Wednesday, the one-week HIBOR rose to 90% from
8.5%, and the three-month HIBOR rose to 35% from 10.5%.

Traders attributed the Hong Kong dollar's strength Thursday to sharply
higher interbank interest rates. In late trading in the currency markets, the
U.S. dollar was quoted at HK$7.6965, down sharply from late
Wednesday's level of HK$7.7499.

Return to top of page
Copyright © 1997 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:08
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
A.Goose--if you bought Woodside, you'd have to be smilin'. One of the best performing stocks in OZ this year!! They've got more hot gas off the NW shelf than Ted and ÉB put together!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:07
tolerant1 @large>(@large) ID#31868:
JTF: I agree with your thoughts in this regard. There are a host of reasons, Americans by and large think the market here will continue to go up. Money will seek refuge from the east in the dollar, plenty of it will find it's way to the metals.

Large positions will be taken by certain individuals and funds in the metals who now plainly see the writing on the walls.

Many think there will be bank runs, maybe, I think the runs will be on Mutual Funds, not too many people have money in the bank, zillions are in the mutuals and stockmarket. Then we will see the bank runs.

I for one like stocks like Avino, First Silver, Silver Standard, Tan Range, Oroperu. Coins and bullion are a given. A stock not in the metals I like alot Cash America - PWN - found it in The Great Reckoning - Davidson and Lord Rees-Mogg - PWN has over 300 pawn shops in the US alone. Take a peek at their stock. It is strong as a rock and will make a killing as people sell things to make ends meet.

And last but not least - Gold and Silver Reserve http://www.e-gold.com --I have read a great deal on the subject of digital metal. Jim Blanchard, Lord Rees-Mogg, James Davison, Alan Greenspan and others have written and talked about it. Good enough company for me.

I put these here for your perusal. YOU DO WHAT EVER YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH.........BUT DON'T WAIT.....DO SOMETHING.

Good luck to you all with your choices...things are going to get worse financially before they get better.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:04
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Thanks all, but I am looking for a link that will allow me to view individual stocks. Like I said, I use to have links for London, Swiss ... and some other markets where I could key in the individual stocks and view the trading for that day. But I am unable to find them at the moment.

Thanks for the help.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 08:03
Ted @ Hepcat the great market predictor(?)>(@ Hepcat the great market predictor(?)) ID#364147:
Let's see....10/23= GOLD 3-1-0 and DOW 8300...Today is the 23rd BOY ( who writes so pretty but can't do anything else but be an ass-wipe ) Hey BOY,I still need a servant....you interested yetHAHAHAHA....P.S.-yer such a card ( HAHAHA )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:58
BillD Int'l markets>(Int'l markets) ID#258427:
AGoose ... try:
http://quote.yahoo.com/intlmarkets

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:58
Ted @ Dec. gold>(@ Dec. gold) ID#364147:
UP 1.70

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:58
George Cole Hepcreep>(Hepcreep) ID#42953:
Looks like Hepcreep made one of the worst forecasts ever. Dow 8300 and Gold $310 by Oct 23. Don't make me laugh.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:57
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Thanks Nick - was afraid of that. Love Australia, spent 5-6 months there 4 years ago. Road buses and walked all over the place. If things work out, I come and see your country again -- soon.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:57
News y2k and stocks>(y2k and stocks) ID#390100:

y2k already biting. http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/II/TK/tk9742.htm

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:57
Speed @waking up>(@waking up) ID#286199:
A. Goose: Try this link http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/

Crystal Ball: I am poised under the knife, ready to pick up more energy and energy services stocks! Only time will judge me as deft or daft!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:56
Ted @ LIMIT DOWN!!>(@ LIMIT DOWN!!) ID#364147:
S+P futures are LIMIT DOWN!! Nick ( C ) GO TRIBE! Was goin ta head out in the kayak but might have ta watch this equity INSANITY fer a bit...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:54
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
I use to have a link for the london marktet, no longer. Does anyone have liinks for European markets, and Asian for that matter. I check Australia market and my stocks didn't move much. Woodside held fine - if the data is really current.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:52
Ted @capebreton + flight to Quality>(@capebreton + flight to Quality) ID#364147:
G'Day Nick ( C ) and Aurator.....Yes, as you can see I am UP but what the hell else is UP Well the U.S. Long Bond is ( up 1 7/32 ) =flight to quality ( ? ) so far this morn....Aurator- how the fuk are ya me elder ( 48 beats 43++++32 beats 26!!! ) I'm lost mate....and yes,I am an AGENT....CherOkee: Yer call is lookin great and Vegas bekons...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:52
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
A.Goose--OZ dollar is already down 3% this week. May go a bit lower but will then be good buying. Your OZ shares are worth 3% less if they stayed even ( in your $, of course ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:50
Crystal Ball ()>(()) ID#287367:
I want to see the stock market dippies catch this falling knife! $360 gold and $6 + silver here we come! GO STUFF ! !


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:45
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
As has been noted on this bb, for several weeks gold and gold stocks have seemed to have a mirror image to the DOW. Well today we should get to benefit from this relationship.

I have stocks in Australia, mainly resource based. Is their any chance your currency is going to be hit?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:38
JTF @Home>(@Home) ID#57232:
Mike Sheller: Interesting convergence of cycles with inverted H&S in gold, and now crisis in China and HK. Almost as if the gold market anticipated what is happening now. One could argue that somebody knew earlier, or . I need to find a neurophysiology referece to electroencephalographic signals in the brain preceeding stimuli by a significant fraction of a second. Never figured out what the experimenter was measuring ----.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:38
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Any recommendations for puts on the s7p 500 or oex? cheap out of the money puts. I have no equities in U.S. except for pm based.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:37
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
G'day Mike Sheller. What's happened to that copper rhino, mate Tripped on a wok?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:35
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
I guessing that U.S. brokers and companies have moved their monies from equities to bonds and treasuries. They are probably looking at it as a short term trade. It is hard for me to believe that asians would buy them. Especially since they need currency to defend their markets. IMHO.

30 yr bond up in london 1 7/32.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:30
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
'bout bloody time, Ted!! Watched the game today. On the warpath!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:30
JTF @Home>(@Home) ID#57232:
Nick ( @Aussie ) : Do you have anything special in your Dad's poetic works for Jin? He would appreciate it, I'm sure, given what is happening in that part of the world. There but for the grace of God go I Can't remember who said that - too sleepy to pull out Bartlett's -- Aurator - any words of support for Jin?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:27
Mike Sheller Ask...>(Ask...) ID#347447:
NICK ( @Aussie ) : Just read Dear God. Am touched. The fundamental things apply, as time goes by.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:25
Ted @ capebreton>(@ capebreton) ID#364147:
S+P futures DOWN 14.75 ( hi CherOkee )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:23
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
JTF--cancel your subscription!! American newspapers rival China's for ethnocentrism. You'll get the REAL news here on the net, mate. Ain't nobody payin' us to shut up!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:22
Mike Sheller at the charts>(at the charts) ID#347447:
The return move test of the inverse H&S bottom breakout in the XAU, and, notably our pedigreed gold stocks HM and PDG, appears to have been accomplished. Now it remains to be seen if the XAU and these stocks must make b and c wave moves before making new highs. If the previous highs on this unfolding rally are exceeded in the next few days, then the swing is underway and we go forward. The stocks appear to be leading bullion as far as gold is concerned, while silver is with the program and has just tested its breakout of 17 years of downtrend captivity. We would have preferred a larger price pattern for that test, and it may yet come in winter, but this return move to breakout will do just fine, so long as it holds.. With all these technicals in place, and the Uranus square to NYSE Venus ( gold ) in its last throes, the news is now emerging along the path of least resistance. There is panic in the air in Asia, and this bodes potentially well for gold and silver, along with dwindling silver stocks ( the bullion, that is ...the Stocks have dwindled quite enuf, thank you ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:22
JTF @Home >(@Home ) ID#57232:
Nick ( @Canberra ) : Dollar and gold up! Whenever there is a major crisis outside the US -- the US$ and gold both go up. There was a period of time in 1993 when this happened - around July I think. What disturbed the experts more at that time was how fast the dollar dropped back down when the crisis was over!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:21
Argent™ G'day>(G'day) ID#255283:

Nick@Canberra--The Goldbug's Weekly Commentary at
the Gold-Eagle ( Vronsky's Website ) has info and recommendations on North American silver stocks. http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest/goldbug613.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:20
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
JTF The reason the problems in Asia are not reported as it would not be consistent with the current economic spin and might puncture our bubble .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:20
Reify @where art thow>(@where art thow) ID#396137:
Hi Kaas -Kop, guter Freund Kaese Kopf- where are you located?
Have you ever thought of mincing words? Just kidding- All here
seem to feel strongly to various degrees about this paper gold markets
subject. Have a nice day and keep your eyes open.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:17
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
If there is a plan to keep gold from becoming a safe haven, today is exactly the type of day where THEY would try to suppress the PMs.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:17
JTF @Home -- flight to the Dollar?>(@Home -- flight to the Dollar?) ID#57232:
All: I think Lurker said it first -- we may have a gold rally and a flight to the dollar -- at least for the short term. Just as I suspected, my local paper does not even have one sentence about what just happened in Hong Kong and China last night! Spent over 20 minutes looking!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:14
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
Gold up 1.4 and silver up 3.7 per dbc. They also have the dollar down versus the mark and franc and up against the Yen. Some guy named Stenger was interviewed on CNN and he was sanguine about the situation.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:14
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Dear God

A man of integrity would I be --
And wise in Judgment
So dear God, teach me

And brave enough,
Compassionate and good
Resourceful and intuitive
And I would
A touch of humour lest I be severe.
And sound good health.
And please, a modicum of wealth.
For you have given us keen eyes
For beauty and the things we prize

The gift of loving too I need.
For you dear God made Eve a maid
And me dear God a man indeed.
And both with thoughtful care

A moderate man you see
And peaceful -- not a prude
For these few simple things I plea.
Dear God -- remember me --


Dear God

That earlier list
Dear God.
Me surely dreaming!
A moralistic theme
Composed no doubt
In a grey moment

What I'd really like
Dear God
Even now, grown old,
Is a garden
And a woman at my side
To help me tend it
Woman are wonderful friends
And often wonderful gardeners.
Such a loving empathy with life

And this life's a garden
Needing care.
So forget that list
Dear God.
Just take me as I am
And, if there's the chance
Of such a garden
And such a friend
Dear God -- Remember me



Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:12
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
G'day Nick@Aussie--thought you had gone prawn fishin'. Not just NAB puts, ANZ puts saved my bacon big-time today mate!!! Up 39% in two days--makes up fer them danged MIMs. I'm very hesitant to sell my puts as they are a bloody good insurance policy if the precious doesn't take off!!! Best case, mate--Paper bonfire and stampede into precious. If only pigs could fly!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:11
A.Goose pondCentral>(pondCentral) ID#20135:
The report on CNBC from London, just noted that the U.S. dollar and U.S. treasuries are being seen as safe havens.

Maybe they are lieing about gold but that is how I saw it on Bloomnberg, I will check it again. Bloomberg shows gold at +1.00. CNBC is showing the new York price at -.20. Guess it is yesterdays close or something.

As for bonds and gold goingup at the same time, if both are seen as safe havens, they both will go up.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:05
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
A.Goose--G'day, mate. Why are the US$ and gold goin' UP at the same time?

Turkey +2.63% -- hope you've got yours in the freezer!!!
J'burg gold + 1.13%

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:03
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
CNBC shows Dec gold down 20 cents. ? They showed silver up though. Do you get U.S. news.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:03
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Nick@Canberra Don't you love those NAB put warrants, Go for it.
Watch those shorts, hold those longs.

Stolen from the web:


GOLDS GONE EAST - FOR GOOD?
Since the dawn of history, the barbarous metal has caused passion and irrationality amongst those who have been exposed to it. It is only recently, since the development of electronic world-wide markets, that some have reduced gold to the lesser status of just another commodity.
This is to ignore thousands of years of history and the powerful desire to hold gold as a tangible sign of wealth.
Gold's scarcity and universal negotiability used to more than compensate for its lack of yield. Today, with inflation back in its box, gold has reduced appeal to hard-nosed investors,
Other than lending, for a small margin, to producers selling forward to protect future earnings, there is not much the central bands could do to increase returns on their holdings. So some central banks did what any rational investor might do: they decided to divest themselves of an underperforming asset. Why not? The future seems to be all sweetness and light, and nowhere can be seen a Factor X ( the unknown trigger for some sort of financial disaster ) lurking in the shadows.
However, for much of the world, from the east of Suez to the east coast of China, and all those other areas running north-south in between, there is a distrust of governments, government paper, and governments' functionaries. Nor do those governments give much. More than two billion people in these areas want some form of negotiable insurance.
The emerging middle classes of India and China have no wish to be uninsured against a physical or financial calamity. Neither do the poor. The collapses of the Tiger currencies illustrates this well. The governments attempted to maintain their currencies within a band. It never did work and still doesn't. Gold holders in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Phillipines would be happy they still hold something very negotiable in a period of considerable panic.
What is going to happen if the EMU doesn't work? What is going to happen if a committee of Eurocrats decides that they may possibly have made a teensy mistake and the basis for their divestment of the ultimate commodity could be a bit wrong, and they might just stop selling their central banks' remaining holdings and, even worse, buy a bit back?
Consider this equation:
a ( fabrication demand ) + b ( investment demand ) + c ( hoarding demand ) + d ( Factor X )
= w ( mining supply ) + x ( forward selling ) + y ( central bank selling ) + z ( traders shorting )
ie. a + b + c + d = w + x + y + z
The equation is somewhat weighted towards the selling side at the moment.
Factor w is becoming very important. The South African mines are hurting badly, Australian mines are in trouble and , in the last few days, various Canadian and US miners have signalled closures. Confidence is the most fragile of flowers and if there is the slightest sign of any weakening in any factor on the right hand side of the equation, i.e. should factors x, y, and z, be only marginally affected, the markets will do their normal thing and overdo everything on the upside, and God help you if you're too short. Steve Eakin
THAT'S ALL RIGHT BUT…
The Chinese who escaped to Hong Kong in 1949 with gold taels sewn into their clothes had a handy start to a new life. But many who have since become hugely wealthy carried with them a far less tangible but more profitable commodity; acumen. Gold is good but brains are better.
Or ask the European Nazi victims who converted their wealth into gold in Swiss banks before 1939 how good their insurance was. You can't. Many were dead before they could make their claim. In times of turmoil, a safe hide-out is better than a hidden safe. But what is reason and history to the eastern mind? Or the frightened mind? Markets are rational - except when they're not.
The long-term trend in gold since 1980 has been steady on the downside. That is not a friendly trend except for sellers. Investing with the aim of profiting from and international banking crisis is like taking the other side to Lloyds and betting that the ship will sink. Good money if it does and nothing if it reaches port safely, as thousands do every day.
Still, there's not much wrong in investing in a company that finds a lot of gold it can dig, treat and pour for less than $US250 an ounce. Or which has sold forward three or four years' production at over $A650 an ounce - as NBH has. In the meantime, I'll leave the philosophy - and the physical - to the mystics. PDJ

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 07:01
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Nick:
news says money moving to the U.S. dollar and U.S. Treasuries. 30 uear long bond up over 1 point.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:59
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
G'day Argent. I would like to get into some silver ( as long as she's warm and cuddly ) . Got any recommendations?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:53
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Kitco gold 324.20 +1.90 yeeeeeeehaaaaaaa!!!
silver 5.09 +4
plat 422
Pall 203

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:51
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Just got up to look to see.

US news acting nervous about Hong Kong melt down ( bloomberg news and cnbc ) . They are saying that looks like U.S. open looks like at 100 points down. Of course they are saying it could be better by opening time. S&P futures are recovering to -12 up from -15. I am going to read what you guys have posted while I was sleeping.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:49
aurator© Çassandra's Ears>(Çassandra's Ears) ID#257148:
Nick, and 00:42 by ( ahhemmm,. moi? )

armagedinoutofhere

oh, silly me, i am already

take care my friends



but if you're skating on thin ice,

you might as well dance

Jesse Winchester

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:49
Auric @ Kitco>(@ Kitco) ID#255151:

I'll bet this little item has the White House
scrambling. Required reading!
http://www.drudgereport.com/1.htm

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:47
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Sauerkraut -3.84
Bangers and mash -3.39

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:42
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Can't find ANY up arrows!!!

http://www.ebn.co.uk/Markets/Stocks/

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:33
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Wake up TED!!! Sleepin' yer life away as the world melts around you. Good thing you sold that paper, mate. I've got a feelin' we're gonna hear from Puetz soon!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:30
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
DAX now down 3.64%
J'burg gold up .62%

Anyone seen Donald lately Send out a search Party!!

Aurator-- a poet I ain't!! You and the other Nick's father will have to carry on!!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:22
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
Hong Kong Dollar Hits Record Low Against US Unit--Nikkei News.

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/enews/TNKS/page/asiaset.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:19
aurator© I'm not the pheasant plucker, I'm the pheasant plucker's son. If you want to pluck a pheasant, wait till the pheasant plucker comes.>(I'm not the pheasant plucker, I'm the pheasant plucker's son. If you want to pluck a pheasant, wait till the pheasant plucker comes.) ID#257148:
Nick, aye... cold and hard and warm and soft, you have the heart of a poet. i look forward to hearing more of it.

I am amazed at our Westies always talking about how much plastic credit comes in the mail.. i mean , once, ten years ago,, my handle got on lists.... easy money if you thought so ... it is like the North West heavy-human-biomass has gone looney, Nick , these boys and girls have goofed out.. Yes I remember On The Beach.

remember the aurator©, as i will remember you

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:19
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE QUICKENING >(@THE QUICKENING ) ID#431263:
GOLD UP $1.50!! SILVER UP 3! ONLY THE BEGINNING MEINE FREUNDE!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:19
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE QUICKENING >(@THE QUICKENING ) ID#431263:
GOLD UP $1.50!! SILVER UP 3! ONLY THE BEGINNING MEINE FREUNDE!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:15
Reify @Complainin>(@Complainin) ID#396137:
Hey how come LGB has 3 IDs and I only have one
LGB #'s 310407,315256,316409. Could there be three of you
out there?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 06:13
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
DAX -3.17%
FT-SE -3.01

What's 3% of 8000?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:56
Nick @five fig plucking fiends plucked figs>(@five fig plucking fiends plucked figs) ID#386245:
Auracious--hold on to yer precious, mate--both the cold and hard and the warm and soft. They can't be replaced!! I'm waitin for the Yanks/Rebs/Canuks to figure out what's gonna happen when the Asians sell all their bonds/bills etc. Asia has been slowly melting down for weeks, now the pace has increased and the Northerners have still been out on their giant picnic stuffing themselves and getting thoroughly soused!! They're gonna hava one helluva hangover when they wake up. Not only that, but someone has stolen the picnic basket!! Asians are feeling 25-40% poorer tonight. How are our friends up North gonna feel when the mastercard bill is due and there ain't no cash in the kitty

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:56
aurator golden trumpet, or Jimson weed or cherokee ;-))>(golden trumpet, or Jimson weed or cherokee ;-))) ID#255285:
Golden &&&&head ehhh?

speak up young man

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:52
aurator© it will all make sense, if we read it in the present tense...>(it will all make sense, if we read it in the present tense...) ID#255285:
JTF. Donald, Zardoz, All thank you for your exegesis of Another's posting. Oil, LBMA, Gold, Billary, silk shorts, stars, charts, candlesticks and poetry. where else

pages@sagesdotkitco©


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:52
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE BIG ONE!>(@THE BIG ONE!) ID#431263:
LET ME GET RIGHT TO THE POINT! DEFLATION IS HERE!! NOW!! SELL ALL STOCKS!! NOW!! BUY ONLY PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER !!! NOW!! THIS IS THE BIG ONE!! ASIA IS IMPLODING AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL IMPLODE WITH HER!!
I'VE BEEN WARNING YOU FOR WEEKS NOW TO GET OUT WHILE THERE STILL IS TIME!! NOW TIME IS UP!! AG WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUT ASIA BACK TOGETHER AGAIN! NOR WILL JAPAN! THE ASIAN PLAY IS NOW OVER FOR AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS! BONDS WILL SOAR IN THE SHORT TERM! WARREN BUFFET KNEW THIS!! HE WILL MAKE A KILLING IN ZEROS! UNTIL IT BECOMES CLEAR THAT THE US DOLLAR IS GOING DOWN TOO! THEN INTEREST RATES WILL SOAR. BONDS WILL PLUMMET WITH STOCKS! AND GOLD WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES TO ALL TIME NEW HIGHS!! THIS WILL BE THE NEW PARADIGM INTO THE NEW MILLENNIUM! THERE'S NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO! THE PAPER PARTY IS COMING TO AN END! AND METALS ALONE WILL SHINE!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:51
GOLDEN CHEESEHEAD @THE BIG ONE!>(@THE BIG ONE!) ID#431263:
LET ME GET RIGHT TO THE POINT! DEFLATION IS HERE!! NOW!! SELL ALL STOCKS!! NOW!! BUY ONLY PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER !!! NOW!! THIS IS THE BIG ONE!! ASIA IS IMPLODING AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL IMPLODE WITH HER!!
I'VE BEEN WARNING YOU FOR WEEKS NOW TO GET OUT WHILE THERE STILL IS TIME!! NOW TIME IS UP!! AG WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUT ASIA BACK TOGETHER AGAIN! NOR WILL JAPAN! THE ASIAN PLAY IS NOW OVER FOR AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS! BONDS WILL SOAR IN THE SHORT TERM! WARREN BUFFET KNEW THIS!! HE WILL MAKE A KILLING IN ZEROS! UNTIL IT BECOMES CLEAR THAT THE US DOLLAR IS GOING DOWN TOO! THEN INTEREST RATES WILL SOAR. BONDS WILL PLUMMET WITH STOCKS! AND GOLD WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES TO ALL TIME NEW HIGHS!! THIS WILL BE THE NEW PARADIGM INTO THE NEW MILLENNIUM! THERE'S NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO! THE PAPER PARTY IS COMING TO AN END! AND METALS ALONE WILL SHINE!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:34
aurator the sixth sick sheikh's, sixth sheep's sick..>(the sixth sick sheikh's, sixth sheep's sick..) ID#255285:
Nick@Canberra my pleasure, are you waxing your surfboard, sun-kissed buddy? Cos, to listen to the talk here, we got tsunamis on the horizon, course that makes it safer at least as far as sharks are concerned?

BTW got concrete proof ( skientifik ) on your claim re Jå¼s if ever ye need ammo. ( am embarassed - looking back - have called beautiful precious by mistake, but then, if you could see her...

Gold is dlog backwards.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:29
John jatkison@linkonline.net>(jatkison@linkonline.net) ID#252110:

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

I thought it appropriate to post these verses from Ecclesiates considering all the mayhem taking place in the Far East. Looks like many investors and non-investors alike have forgotten about 1929 and the resulting Great Depression. I hope we don't get to remember it all over again.

Goodnight everyone.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:21
Nick @Canberra>(@Canberra) ID#386245:
G'day Aurator. I want to thank you very much for looking up the info on those Kiwi gold shares for me. Very much appreciated. I was thinking of diversifying into our antipodean brothers. As it turns out Normandy has already done it for me with their big holding in the Martha Hill Mine ( Waihi Gold ) . I was very happy with Normandy today. In the midst of an Aussie paper bonfire the good goldies held up extremely well.

What a day eh, folks. A traders prayer answered if yer quick enough. Some of our big companies were down 5%, up 2%, down 2% etc. Dang I'm tired!!. Good thing for them put warrants and SPI puts. I broke even today!! Believe me , that is a major achievement. Our bank meltdown is makin' up for the death of a thousand cuts our goldies are undergoing. As the Chinese say, May you live in interesting times. Sure as hell was interesting out there today. How about you Northerners Are you in for an interesting day?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:18
Argent™ Hi-Yo Silver--AWAY!!>(Hi-Yo Silver--AWAY!!) ID#255283:

For anyone following stocks that are silver plays, here is a near real time summary and data on asgmf, asm.v ssrif, paasf, fsr.v-- http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=asgmf+asm.v+fsr.v+paasf+ssrif&d=t ( Thanks Claude Cournier )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 05:09
aurator pass me the smelling salts please...>(pass me the smelling salts please...) ID#255285:


They who control the credit of a nation direct the policy of the governments and hold in the hollow of their hand the destiny of the people

Reginald Mckellor


Money plays the largest part in determining the course of history

Karl Marx ( that's for you WW, cos we all love each other on armageddon day ;- ) ) ) ) )

and

Sell T-bonds buy Gold

Hashimoto


and


dem J%ws did it


Dikter Mahitzir


we agree

the rest of asia

donald duck

nick duck


all: duck

( especially TED cos you think i got problems, look in your woodbox. )



That is All except for Gartman BUY MICROSOFT and read the complaints of your clients.


aurator

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:55
aurator cold shower...>(cold shower...) ID#255285:
aurator i shall slap myself around the face to stay awake today.. ah the tyranny of distance ( oh yes, and ahhhh,, the LIBERTY of distance )

input, please input


JIN, thank you for your courage.

go team kitco.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:41
Strad Master™ Night Owl>(Night Owl) ID#250297:
ARGENT™: Yep! I'm always up late but I don't always post unless I have something to say - however unimportant it may be. It's 1:40 here in LA but this Hong Kong stuff is too intertesting to miss. ( BTW, did anyone expect the Hang Seng to keep going up once the Red Chineese took over? I'm surprised this didn't happen the week BEFORE the takeover. ) I think I'll hit the sack pretty soon.
Wonder if I'll get a new ID # for the addition of the ™ after my handle?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:39
Professor H/C The Pound>(The Pound) ID#221228:
3-4-0-3-4-0-3-4-0-3-4-0-3-4-0

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:32
Argent™ The Poster Formerly Known As Auric™>(The Poster Formerly Known As Auric™) ID#255283:

aurator, Nick, Strad--ssrif and paasf are actualy UP! Got ssrif at just under 5 and paasf at just under 8. Nick--The Tsunami metaphor is spot on!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:19
WW @NE>(@NE) ID#18970:
Gold up 1.1 and silver up 2.7.
Chinese Govt is telling landowners in HK what they can charge poorer people in rent and telling the owners they must lower rent on poorer types ( per the Van Eck newsletter ) .

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:16
Nick @AUssie>(@AUssie) ID#386276:
Footsie down 199pt in first 16mins. Every share on the FT100 in the red. Every single one. Now bouncing on first wave -189.4 @ 8:51am

Globex -930

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:10
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Footsie down 45pts in first 3 mins
-88 points in 9 mins
-177 pts in 12 mins
183 in 15 mins.
Look out below.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:05
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Globex down 1050
Bought puts in LLC on first rally after morning fall was down 40c closed down $2.13


AVID Chatter
Hong Kong down an amazing 15% now - below 10,000 - Hong Kong Dollar Deposit opens at 50%, HK Banks limit HKD Deposit withdrawls... FTSE opens down 100, DAX down 175, SPZ7 -8.80 ( Prem -3 ) - USZ7 +20/32 on flight to quality...

lets see, 16% of dow 8000 = 1280

HBSC Hldings Ltd said it has halted ahead of their maturity, the transfer of funds out of the bank's time deposits as of 11:30 am due to market conditions

China Telecom ( recent hot IPO ) falls as much as 19% on first HK Trade... 300% oversubscibed

Strong buy recommendation on HangSeng Index at 2000 ( after a fall of 89% in a few years time ) !

Well, here is some bear critter chatter to liven things up. It has been my belief for a long time ( I had almsot forgotten this theory....I think someone wrote a book on this that I haven't read. The Great Reckoning? ) As the world's leading economy is replaced by another, the one that is about to take over as the leader goes into a stock market bear of huge proportions and a depression. Lesser bears and depressions affect the old leader and the rest of the world. This was certainly the case in 1929, as we took over world leadership from Britain. I believe that is what is happening today and Asia, of course, will emerge as the world leader while we fade as did England.

the HKMA ( Hong Kong Monetary Authority ) has informed the HK banks that the banks can no longer rely on the Liquidity Adjustment Facility for funds--sounds like every man for himself to me..

My theory this morning was that since we had a huge rush to sell T-bills this a.m., they were up 12-13 bps at 1 pm est., that some major players, banks and governments, were getting the cash ready to support the Hk market tonight. I think they will get their chance.

I don't know who but they were getting killed, the ted spread was off 13 at one time today. somebody needed cash and in a hurry.

Dow Jones says A Japanese account sold the active bond this morning

the HKMA ( Hong Kong Monetary Authority ) has informed the HK banks that the banks can no longer rely on the Liquidity Adjustment Facility for funds--sounds like every man for himself to me..

$517mil net outflow from US equity funds over friday/Monday

I would guess the HK-US$ peg would be broken after this, and I don't see any US$ selling. Just the opposite, so is no one defending the HK$?

hughes..HKMA told banks not to * depend* on HKMA facility for liquidity ( funds ) ..overnight now 120-150%..Singapore overnight rate up to 50% now..Hang is hanging everyone down 14% last i heard

lowery what choice do they have? was that the bottom just below 10,000, thats almost a 41% correction.

I kinda suspect that this latest run up was specifically crafted to get as many people as long as possible. Think about what has just occured. The most heavily publicized crash warning that I can think of was precipitated by a 2 day 356 point drop. Then, on the day of the 10th anniversary of the crash, the market rallies. Day later, it rallies bigger. The market is a screaming buy! The crash was just a scare, ibm and msft earnings were ok, why there is NO WAY the market can crash now because if it would, why it would have happened on monday!

BTW, the HK dollar is backed by US $ reserves. They will be selling US bonds by the truck load.

the HK-US$ peg. They're probably going to peg to the chinese currency very, very soon. It's more likely the chinese will bail them out than the US.

I don't know if they will sell US bonds, bills maybe but if they take away the US dollar llink why sell US bonds?

I am turning more bullish on the bonds, yesterday we were saying the spread between bills and fed funds is huge, how can the fed tighten? and now with HK, no way. if they do we are toast.

they puttin the squeeze on HK$ sellers..overnite rates up to 300%..short sellers dumping big time but high rates hurting Hang

HK to open in a few minutes. Lets rock and roll either hard up or down.
HK down 200pts in 6 min.
300pts. in 9 min.!!!!!!!!!
If this gets out of control here we are gonna pay big time!
I just think the liquidity drain will finally catch up.
HK down +1600. We need government intervention now!!!!!!!!
HK 30 from low. May God have mercy. Everyone is sleeping through a stock market crash

.this situation in those countries including japan...will HAVE TO affect U-S markets...WORLD WIDE DEPRESSION !

i can't believe all u guys are UP and ABOUT at this hour of the day...U'll be UP ALL NITE... when INDU starts a SIMILAR CRASH huh?

usz7 is up 20 ticks

FTSE 100 5100.50 -48.30 at 08:33 on 23 Oct 97 first 3 miutes of trading.

It's 8 am in the morning here in London UK... things seems to be holding steady now DAX -136, FTSE -120 - USZ7 continues to surge - now at 116-04 ( +28 )

Gold stead in Asia - around US$322 -- with the crash in HK ( supposed large buyers of gold ) one would have thought some uptick would be there - lack thereof very bearish for gold - could point to deflationary expectations

well, now it happened! USZ7 116.07 +.31. the NYSE crashes, 60% of american money will evaporate. the babyboomers are poor, have no pension fund, the govt have no revenues, the $ will crash, gold will surge. the next century belongs to asia..

you just know that clinton, rubin, and greenspan are awake right now.

I just got off the phone with fidelity and the guy said the phones are off the hook tonight busy. Everyone is asking for quotes on hong kong. He said he's taken about the same amount of sell orders for asia and hong kong funds as he did the night before. Looks like the late comers will be selling at the bottom once again.

HK 500 pts off lows in last 15 min


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:02
Amnesty @the puter>(@the puter) ID#251165:
Buying NAB puts and selling 3 hours later for 30% profit is my kinda
money. Come on gold calls its your turn next. They like it in London.
What to do tomorrow? Any suggestions Mike Sheller, moon man, space cadet,
dreamer of the future, zen monk, holder of the cards, friend of cherokee,
listener of the wind, predictor of the future, in tune with the waves,
mega pshychic?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 04:01
Strad Master Woooaaahhh!!>(Woooaaahhh!!) ID#250297:
AURIC™: Bloodbath is the word for it. Holy Moley!!! Hang Seng is down 13.26% and S&P is down 1180 on Globex. Wonder where all the money is going? Fascinating timing - It would seem to me that if stocks crash and much of what's salvaged goes to the metals, that silver should really take off since stockpiles for silver are gone. Am I wrong?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 03:44
aurator the poster formerly known as , but i speak to soon....>(the poster formerly known as , but i speak to soon....) ID#257148:
Argent™ you got KRY chrystal balls buddy? how went Silver Standard today?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 03:25
Auric™ BIG POSTER>(BIG POSTER) ID#255151:

Wow! Just got in and read about the bloodbath in Hong Kong. This is getting serious! I bet this gets some attention in Washington and Wall Street. cherokee--strapped firmly in the ssm. aurator, Nicks et al--this Silver thing is getting interesting, eh?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 03:18
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Gemany DAXI IBIS - futures down 1% soon after opening

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:53
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
A.Goose
This has the power to be so much bigger the the US. When it really starts to fall AG will be able to do little to stop it, merely provide support
and hand out the bandages. If you read his last few papers carefully, he alludes so clearly his fears. He has seen a vision of tommorow and that is why he has cautioned and cautioned.
But the mania did not listen.
The scenario unfolding so far, has been responding to perfect, almost seemless technical analysis, let alone the fundamentals coming in to play. I see a crash immenent.
This purge would of happened regardless of what or who we choose to blame.
Sort of like a massive boil that has been growing, untended and unnoticed. It must come to a head and then be purged till it is spent, then given time to heal. We have been seeing a bit of pus ozzing lately but thought nothing of it. But now the scab has popped off it, it is starting to express itself. First a gentle squeeze then a big push will expell it's poison.
AG can merely hold its hand and put on the bandages after it is done.
I sincerely hope he stands clear and lets it blow off, before he comes to help, because if he expends all his energy at the top, he will merely contain it temporarily and it will increase its pressure. Thus ensuring a worse position. AG needs to be getting the medics ready for the casualties at the bottom and supporting it in its hour of need.
For if this purge gets carried away with itself, I can see worse calamities than we can imagine in front of us.
AG must contain the excesses that could run away with itself but he must not contain the purging. IMHO.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:50
Jack Hang Seng hung low>(Hang Seng hung low) ID#252127:

Down 11.48% at 2:48am

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:30
aurator And promises of payment, are neither food nor raiment..>(And promises of payment, are neither food nor raiment..) ID#257148:
Nick, you are right bro'..there is a banging of drums and a clashing of cymbals tonight,, it may not be the end of the world, didja catch my earlier post? but there are the trailblazers... And when the birds are disturbed by the advance scout....

Gird yer loins, ( and loinettes )

Gartman.... time to buy stocks and to answer your critics.... ( I mean ex-clients )

Atonement

clink clink, i like the sound of kitco in the morning my precious...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:29
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
My thoughts:
Many of the big corporations who invest heavily in paper and its derivitives will not have progamed systemic risk into them to cover what is now unfolding. Most of us understand bollinger bands and their function. Well I believe that these big Co's use this style of thinking to work out risk/reward ratios. Being that what we are seeing and going to see, would probably be in the excess of 2 standard deviations, there will be massive losses and gains.

i.e. SPX puts : $15 contact at yesterdays price.
30% fall in SPX could lead to these being worth $2,000 to $10,000 each.
50% fall - work it out for youself - that is if they honour the paper that the trade was written on.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:21
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Nick: Do you think Big Al is asleep or sitting in his tub trying to think what to hell to do tomorrow morning. Rubin will know he hopes.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:14
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
Steve@Perth
Hope this works. Its the charts for Asia. If not go to the post section and look in the list of posted charts. The files to look for will be image30.gif through to image35.gif at the bottom of the page.

Certainly seems to be a bit of angst here at kitco today.
Lots of poeple globally, fear loosing their paper dreams - seems to be an extremely emotional experience ( :- ) ) ) )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:11
Jack Asia Bloody Nite>(Asia Bloody Nite) ID#252127:

http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:08
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Check this out:
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/23/z0009_11.html

Hong Kong stocks crashed below the 10,000 point barrier, plummeting more than 1,600 points, which is over 14 percent, in the
biggest single intra-day collapse in the exchange's history, while the Tokyo market was closed for lunch.

Sounds like the Japanese market are out to lunch just like wall street.

This is also interesting.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/97/10/23/z0009_8.html

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:07
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
ASX ALL ORDINARIES INDX - 2617.60 -65.30 -2.43
HANG SENG STOCK INDEX - 10549.47 -1088.30 -9.35
HKSE ALL ORDINARIES INDX - 5270.18 -536.71 -9.24
NIKKEI 225 INDEX ----------17219.88 -467.73 -2.64
STRAITS TIMES INDU ------------ 1637.66 -94.02 -5.43
KUALA LUMPUR INDEX ---- 696.78 -34.39 -4.70
TAIWAN: WEIGHTED INDEX - 7825.01 +132.54 +1.72
PHILIPPINES COMPOSITE IX --- 1832.91 -96.06 -4.98
CHINA CLSA INDEX CHINA WRLD - 890.46 -90.32 -9.20
JAKARTA COMPOSITE INDEX -- 492.96 -12.27 -2.43


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:05
LGB @Final re Gold & Silver, wisdom>(@Final re Gold & Silver, wisdom) ID#316409:
Last proverb for tonight. Like Apples of Gold in Settings of Silver, is a word spoken in right circumstances

Has a beautiful flow to it as all the Proverbs do, yes? Hmmmm..look out Kitcoites, I may just start a renewal of spirit. Would you miss the old LGB? If the new one was a genuinely decent guy?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 02:02
LGB @Biblical teaching re debt>(@Biblical teaching re debt) ID#316409:
Do not be emong those who give pledges, among those who become sureities for debts ( Proverbs 22:26 )

yes I'm big on Proverbs tonight,a little more bible reading and I may turn into a nice guy....you all would miss the Old LGB if I did

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:57
Nick @Aussie>(@Aussie) ID#386276:
It has started in the west - already it is here and prevalent!!!
I've been offline out purchasing puts etc and silver calls.
My O/S futures broker's voice is turning to jelly. He can't fill my positions on Globex as the have stopped trading due to liquidity problems, I have to choose at opening if I want to place these orders.
Our market, if you read my previous call a few hours ago, was acting very strange. One hour latter it started, the shares that were racing up started to fall fast and big. Our All Industrials promptly fell 100pts - a big fear reaction thingy I guess.
Our SPI opened at 2677 rose to 2718 fell to 2615 and currently at 2661.
Massive moves showing massive fear.
I rang my wife in town to tell her the news, and she said that she could see Japanese people in the street below jabbering excitedly into their mobiles, worried expressions on their faces.
My local broker is in disbelief, hurredly looking up his clients who have excessive margin accounts. Shows you can't trust a broker's judgement. He showed disbelief when I put my put positions in. Dirt cheap way out of the money puts.
The fear now starting to enter the markets is naked, raw, unbelievable and those that stand in it's way will be blown to smithereens.
The Dow has made all the right technical failures and is now poised to go down. The failure to breach support of last week is a death knell. This happened last night ( see Panda's charts ) . With the amount of fear entering the markets today being so much more than at the end of last week, I see the dow hitting stops tonight. We will see.
This correction will take time to build up its momentum, but measured in hours not days weeks.
The big waves down followed buy up thrusts are merely the market expressing optimism/pessimism.
These short-term bases should not be bought. This beast has a lot of purging to do.
And if the concept of dow down and gold up is to come to play, watch your shorts and watch your longs cause this world will not be the same when we come out of this.

IMHO Loaded with puts and calls for this mometuos occassion.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:56
HighRise OIL UP>(OIL UP) ID#401460:
http://oilworld.com:80/1cashpet.htm
Another big day tomorrow maybe the DOW will notice that something has happened next door.
Good night all!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:55
LGB More Biblical>(More Biblical) ID#316409:
On the lips of the discrening wisdom is found, but a rod is for him who lacks understanding

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:54
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Jack: If you are worried, you should hold some of your bullion overseas. Canada Central fund of Canada ( CEF ) is basically a gold and silver play. You get the assets in ? 2002 or some such date until then you get dividends on the bullion. If you have bullion in Switzerland, well you know they don't give anything up - especially information.

Bernie:
This site gets real peculiar at midnight. I have to set the date to the 24th and set short text to obtain text for the 23rd. You might try setting the date back to 22 and then try the time. Otherwise try backing up to it. hope things work out.




Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:53
LGB @More Biblical Quotes, Gold & Silver bettered>(@More Biblical Quotes, Gold & Silver bettered) ID#316409:
Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gains understanding. For it's profit is better than the profit of silver, and it's gain better than fine Gold. ( Solomon, Proverbs 3:13-15 )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:53
PR !rate hike or what?>(!rate hike or what?) ID#225359:
The three-month Hong Kong interbank rate soared to 41.25 percent from 10.55 percent on Wednesday 10/22. Is that a rate hike or what? Imagine if our Fed did the same. Why didn't the HK market fall by 50%?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:50
Hem @Globex>(@Globex) ID#393102:
CME's Globex 5-minute updates are at:
http://www.cme.com/cgi-bin/gflash.cgi

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:47
LGB @Biblical Quote>(@Biblical Quote) ID#316409:
The wise man see's the evil day coming and prepares himself, the fool goes on and is punished ( Proverbs )

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:44
Bernie Site problems>(Site problems) ID#259160:
Is anyone else having trouble with this site? I can not select time.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:44
Jack Some thoughts>(Some thoughts) ID#252127:

I think that Goldfinger's concerns about confiscation leads many toward gold stocks and at the present time the stocks of irrational exuberance. Then we have the abundant paper interest created by the oversexed nypomaniac dollar its derivatives and currency moves.

Seriously, does anyone have a take on what effect the confiscation factor has on bullion sales.

Also many gold companies have difficulties, not only because it's a tough business, but many governments and their captive media are against mining, especially the gold miners.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:44
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Hem: How do you get golbex? Is there an url?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:42
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Hang Seng down nearly 25% this week along. With the rest of asia it is definitely looking ugly. Yes, it has looked bad in asia for awhile and it certainly hasn't had effect on the U.S. yet. But it did have its first mentioned impact in Europe this week. I suspect the U.S. market is going to have trouble also -- sooner than later.
The multinationals are certainly going to have a very tough time selling goods into the asian market -- thus their earnings are going to tank taking the market down ( starting next quater ) . While asian goods are going super swamp the U.S. and European markets.
Asian will have to bring money home to shore up these problems, thus they will sell treasurys and U.S. bonds - Ouch for U.S.
I think the cat is out of the bag and we either see it and prepare or sit and watch the show, or both.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:41
Hem ny@usa>(ny@usa) ID#393102:
Dec S&P now down 900 on Globex. Since Hong Kong doesn't have any
effect on US, this is obviously a reaction to LGB's sale of
yesterday.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:39
LGB @ALL just get along?, Bullion coins>(@ALL just get along?, Bullion coins) ID#316409:
Geez I just scrolled back aways ( went to a flick with my darling wife this evening ) and didn't realize so much fur had been flying. Bottom line is... personally, I think now is a GREAT time to have Silver coin, Platinum coin, and some Gold coins. I like the St. Gaudens for Gold ( as Allen mentioned ) for many reasons I've stated earlier here, and then for silver I go for small premium collector coins like Walking Liberty Halves, Mercury dimes, and Morgan silver dollars. In Platinum I have some of the new American PROOF Eagles. Sure they're all a bigger mark-up than the junk silver coins or straight bullion coins, BUT they historically provide some leverage in up markets ( they go up more proportionally than bullion ) AND a floor in falling markets ( due to Numismatic value. Just one perspective from a Numismatic type. I like the SSRIF and SSC purchasing startegies for leverage also in SIlver which I think has much more potential than Gold for big gains in near term.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:29
LGB @Asian Markets, Kuston>(@Asian Markets, Kuston) ID#316409:
Seems like every night here we see HangSung market crashing bigtime, etc. yet it never seems to have any influence on our markets following day. Are they coupled or would it take total collapse of the major Asians to pull ours down?

P.S. Psssst Kuston, yer just jerkin yer meat now boy...no one cares...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:28
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I am bullish on gold only in the forms I care to be invested in. If someone likes bullion I guess thats O.K. too, but I have a problem with it. My honest opinion is it is not a safe way to own gold. That's me and I can't change that unless old gold coins are prices out of sight. For now they are tremendous buys. In fact they are treasures soon to be cherished. See you tomarrow.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:28
A.Goose @pondCentral>(@pondCentral) ID#20135:
Holly smokes fellows it sure looks bab in asia.

Australia All Ordinaries ^AORD 1:09AM 2631.3 -51.6 -1.92%
China Shanghai Composite ^SSEC 1:10AM 1180.344 +2.824 +0.24%
Hong Kong Hang Seng ^HSI 12:30AM 10549.47 -1088.30 -9.35%
India BSE 30 ^BSESN 1:10AM 4075.95 -6.75 -0.17%
Indonesia Jakarta Composite ^JKSE 1:00AM 492.964 -12.269 -2.43%
Japan Nikkei 225 ^N225 1:10AM 17330.27 -357.34 -2.02%
Malaysia KLSE Composite ^KLSE 12:31AM 696.78 -34.39 -4.70%
New Zealand NZSE 40 ^NZ40C 11:02PM -26.12 -0.99%
Pakistan Karachi 100 ^KSE 1:10AM 2060.56 -7.42 -0.36%
Singapore Straits Times ^SS1 12:31AM 1637.66 -94.02 -5.43%
South Korea Seoul Composite ^KS11 1:10AM 595.25 -6.07 -1.01%
Sri Lanka All Share ^CSE 4:38AM 768.60 -1.10 -0.14%
Taiwan Taiwan Weighted ^TWII 12:03AM 7825.01 +132.54 +1.72%
Thailand SET ^SETI 6:01AM 511.56 +3.62 +0.71%

No not everything is down but by golly Hang Send is down -9.35% in one day - OUCH! Japan is down -2.43%. Oh well I am sure the Dow doesn't care much. All will be well just because. By the way, notice that China is NOT down but up slightly +0.24%, which I guess is doing really well comparitively.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:25
HIGHRISE WHAT NEXT?>(WHAT NEXT?) ID#401460:
Skeptic: Right now I have to tell you that I sure am glad I sold all of my non gold/natural resource equities monday.

What is the advice from all of you GoldBug Pros out there. What should the strategy be now. For it looks like tomorrow, unfortunately,is the day we have been expecting.

In 87 I think Gold stocks were much higher; this time Gold may react more like it did in 37. The Gold chart looks as stable as could be. It is almost scarry it is so flat and 323 day after day.
WHAT A BASE?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:20
Jack Forgot something>(Forgot something) ID#252127:

Don't forget to compact the earth backfill, place a plastic sheet between the earth and the new concrete and clean the jagged edges of the broken slab and wet them down to insure good bonding.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:19
GOLDFINGER JACK AND A GOOD NITE>(JACK AND A GOOD NITE) ID#433171:
Thanks, I am aware of digging holes and refuge in other countries, say swissie. But it's alot more confortable if you have nothing to hide. Still like old coins.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:13
Eldorado @the scene>(@the scene) ID#173274:
Goldfinger -- No problemo. Also please accept my deepest appologies! I really do hate offense, even in the name of defense. I will always 'offer' though when I deem it necessary. As it should be. In any case, perhaps you'll explain why you are so down on gold. I know of 'current' reasons, and maybe technical/chartist reasons, but.... I think you have seen at least some of the viewpoints on gold ownership. Please explain your rational. I really DO think through the viewpoints the best I can given the info. Thanks.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:13
GOLDFINGER STARSHINE/ CHECKING OUT/LAST POST>(STARSHINE/ CHECKING OUT/LAST POST) ID#433171:
Thanks for your ideas. Keep it up. Always open but I like the old coins. I sleep better I guess. Just don't have to jump through any last minute hoops. The way life is things happen quick and I like preparation well in advance.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:06
Jack Bullion coins and bullion>(Bullion coins and bullion) ID#252127:

Goldfinger; any type of government action is possible. You might consider the shares of gold producers with minimal debt and a good profit track record.
Bullion can be returned from whence it came, a pick to crack a slab, a shovel to dig it deep and the simple knowledge of mixing concrete might help. Think of the pride you will have of a job well done. Storage in certain solid freedom loving countries can also also be a choice.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:04
lurker //////>(//////) ID#320102:
tommorow=tomorrow. Where are Who Cares and nomercy? Haven't seen them post lately. Hope they come back soon.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 01:01
HighRise Rates Up>(Rates Up) ID#401460:
JTF: The monetary authorities have raised
overnight rates sharply to defend the currency, and the Hong Kong dollar is down only a touch. All of the China markets are down, I think?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:57
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:57
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:57
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:56
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:56
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:55
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
I accept. Actually before I saw your post right after my derogatory post I was about to post my deep regrets for what I said. I guess the termoil going on is getting me excited with frustration as I have many financial arrangements to make before the you know what hits the fan. Anyway lets get with the program and help ourselves make rational moves. Thats what were here for. Again my regrets for the incident tonight.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:50
Bobby @Peckter.com>(@Peckter.com) ID#223165:
Sell! Sell all your gold now! Buy stocks NOW!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:49
Schippi schippi@geocities.com>(schippi@geocities.com) ID#93199:
Fidelity Select American Gold & Precious Metals Chart.
Ten market days ( seven hours / prices per day )
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/5969/agpm70.htm

UP, UP and Away!


) ID#401460:
This item was just on the Tube - If Jesus the Christ was born in 4BC, as some have calculated, than today is the MILLENNIUM. Now that would explain everything.

(The Millennium
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:47
HighRise The Millennium
Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:42
aurator a chill wind before we laugh again....>(a chill wind before we laugh again....) ID#257148:
All G'day from the other side of the world. As you eat your cornflakes or Bagles for breakfast, think, it may just be your last.....

Nah, couldn't happen :

Here is a cheery thought.

Bishop Usher, in 1650 announced the fruit of his lifework, which was establishing the date of the creation of the world, using the Bible as history. He arrived at the date 23 October 4004 BC at 6 pm.

According to arcane readings of scriptures ( which many fundamental sects still adhere to ) the world will exist for one week. That is a *long* week, in which everyday day of the long week will last one thousand years. The last day of the week, that also lasts one thousand years will see the Kingdom of God established on the earth, that will appear after the sixth day.

Today, good kitco folk, is the last day of the world according to this reading. That is, today is the last day of the sixth millenium, ( There being no year *0* ) tomorrow........?

do enjoy yourselves.

We are going to see some really whacky things happen before the millennium, be on your guard. This is really tame compared to what we can expect.

Now what was that Jefferson Starship song again.....?

aurator

Do not panic...... women and children first....

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:41
HighRise No when to fold them>(No when to fold them) ID#401460:
Skeptical: I mentioned CQB, Chaquita Bananas, because I made a few bucks on it a while back and I noticed that the stock was up quite a bit since I last looked at it. I am just wondering if there is inflation appearing in food commodities.

Re: JTF's age, or investing for the long haul, I am totally infavor of holding stocks through the dips; EXCEPT, when the DOW is dangerously higher than it ever has been, and when half of the worlds markets are crashing - I don't care if you are 10 years old that is stupid. That is like standing in the path of a tornado knowing that the sky will be clear after it passes over you. Why take the hit?

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:39
Eldorado @the scene>(@the scene) ID#173274:
Goldfinger -- I was only trying to give good advice in my first posting to you. How did you find it particularly otherwise? I'm not here for food fights etc. I'm not here to defraud anybody. If I mock, it is only to drive a point. Nothing particularly personal. All of our postings are here for all to see, and perhaps, a few others might take heart. However, I will most certainly respond, in kind, accordingly, to BS, as it might be termed. Shall we start over on better terms? I would welcome it! Perhaps the past happened on a poor judgement of 'definition'. I'm sure you can tell us why you are so down on gold. Maybe it's a fine rational. Maybe we can poke holes in it. Maybe not. But let us discuss it regardless.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:32
$ilverbug WOW!!!!>(WOW!!!!) ID#151412:
Hong Kong went crazy this morning! It's drop would equal close to a 1000 point drop in the Dow from present levels. I've got to watch what the Chinese leadership ( read: Red Army ) does after their Red Chips lose that much in a single day.

COMEX Stocks down another 600,000 ozs today to a little under 134 million ounces left. Someone is buying up all that silver.

Anybody know about other large ( 25 Million + ) caches of silver around? I know the U.S. govt has about 45 million left that has been earmarked for coinage programs, but what other piles are there?


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:30
PINNUSDICCUS @ home>(@ home) ID#227276:
TEST

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:27
Lynxpoint @ here kitty,kitty,kity>(@ here kitty,kitty,kity) ID#32090:
LGB,HEP: Why did the Chicken cross the road? To prove to the Armadillo
it could be done.The new paradigm is smoke and mirrors. Play devils
advocate,imagine the miscalculations of Greenspan,CBs,and the BOO
effect of the general international public.Why did Soros buy those
zeros.Be a contrarian with me for a while.Max@why.net.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:27
StarShine Confiscation?>(Confiscation?) ID#285298:
Goldfinger, -- It appears that you believe that if the government passes legislation to outlaw the ownership of gold bullion then it will be so. First, a review of history will show that every time governments have recalled gold that the recall was unsuccessful and black market trading, barter, etc. flourished. If you or anyone knows of a situation where this was not the case, I ask you to share the facts. Second, and in the present, the great high tech innovations together with legislature has done nothing, and I mean NOTHING to impede drug trade, gun control, illegal gambling, tax free bartering and illegal immigration. All of which eclipse the business consequences represented by personally owner gold bullion. If the government is so ineffective in these areas, what makes you so sure they will be able be effective at recalling gold bullion?

In the worst case scenario, the owner of gold bullion only needs to melt the metal ( gold has a relatively low melting point ) into statuettes or other forms of artistic gold to circumvent the law. In fact this is exactly how many across the globe circumvented the recall attempts in the past. Jewelry and other forms of artistic gold has been and always will be in demand. What is the government going to do, outlaw the ownership of artwork and jewelry that contains gold?

IMO the overwhelming majority of personal assets are in the form of conventional investments, I would venture to say that personal gold ownership on a per capita basis is the lowest it has ever been. Confiscating gold would cost the government more in both real terms and public opinion then it is worth. Rather than confiscate gold, the investment community is discouraging the public from gold ownership and instead with tax advantages leading investors to slaughter into long term paper investments. While these investors believe they have their seat in the game of investment musical chairs, the market makers know when the music will start once more and they have their seats reserved. Once the music starts the market makers will have already taken their money out of paper and put it into hard assets. Leaving the flock dazed, confused and virtually penniless.


Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:26
JTF @the_turning_point - Ted, Jin>(@the_turning_point - Ted, Jin) ID#57232:
Ted: You may be right. Would you believe that only an hour ago I called my Dad and repeated my message now of nearly one month that he should get out of Guinness Flight Hong Kong and China? He is fairly well read - and his answer was that he bought more, because it was a good buy right now - that the Guinness people are pros.
Jin: So China did drop its rates -- by 1 1/2 percent today. I can't tell if that is long term or short term. That reference to massive debts in the state firms says loads. I do not know what the going interest rates in the China are -- but that looks to me to be a desperate move in the face of a possible collapse. I think you have done what Donald and the rest of Kitco failed to do -- get some hard facts. Looks like major deflation on the way in mainland China -- I'm more worried about that than even the $HK. Time for us all to hunker down, and hope most of the debris flies overhead.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:22
lurker ////>(////) ID#320102:
There's a lot of money coming out of the Asian markets tonight. I wonder where it's going tommorow. US markets? Dow 8300? Hope not..

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:21
Ted @ back again>(@ back again) ID#364147:
S+P futures falling in a hurry ( down 7.30 ) ....nite!!

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:19
Ted @ the end>(@ the end) ID#364147:
Good night all......

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:17
Eldorado @the scene>(@the scene) ID#173274:
As I stated: 'IF' you have anything left after survival to buy up the stuff on pennies ( or less ) on the dollar! JIN, do what you must, but be sure that if you are STILL holding good physical when the time is ripe, that you MAY come into possession of 'nice fare', or in other words, great possessions, as others who were not as 'thoughtful' must sacrifice them for there own survival.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:13
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
If you could only know what you just did. I will tell you because from the sound of things you are too ignorant to know better. Anyone who has any dignity or class would just consider the source instead you stooped down and defended your sorry human being self because you are as worthless as you sound. Have you finished or do you require more embarrassment? What will it be ? If you go down any lower you know what you will be doing. I will save those two words for you.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:12
GOLDFINGER ELDO>(ELDO) ID#433171:
If you could only know what you just did. I will tell you because from the sound of things you are too ignorant to know better. Anyone who has any dignity or class would just consider the source instead you stooped down and defended your sorry human being self because you are as worthless as you sound. Have you finished or do you require more embarrassment? What will it be ? If you go down any lower you know what you will be doing. I will save those two words for you.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:10
HighRise 1937 and 1997>(1937 and 1997) ID#401460:
Does anyone remember all of the books that came out in the late 80's warning of the crash of 1990, especially Rabi Battra's book? Well many of those authors referred to the fact that the crash would occur in Japan, since Japan was the inflated economic engine this time compared to the US in 1929. If one looks at the charts, Japan did crash in 1990.

Now go back to the 1929-30's chart and you will see that an another major drop occurred 6-7 years later. I find it interesting that we are witnessing the same thing happening 7 years later after the 1990 Japanese crash. Unfortunately Hitler appeared last time and it took a war to get out of that mess.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:08
Mephistopheles @ her kitty,kitty,kitty>(@ her kitty,kitty,kitty) ID#35081:
Hep,LGB,Boogymen et al : Please put aside all the personality conflicts
on this site,look at the posibilities of Asian errors,CB miscalculations,
AG ego. Imagine a defensive ( soon to be offensive} strategy eg metal,
industrial commodities,natural resources,etc. Come home to papa with some
ideas.You are contrarian at heart ( depending on the site ) .Boo Oct 31st-
Jan 1st. You guys can bring your alter egos to N.O.L.A. and we'll
get wasted to toast our money.I'll bring Louis Cypher and F.P. with me.
Your fiend, Meph.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:05
Ted @ JTF + JIN>(@ JTF + JIN) ID#364147:
The average American might not be aware of the significance of the Asian equity CRASH but I think the DOW will certainly take a BIG hit tomorrow if the Hang Seng etc. etc doesn't rebound from these levels tonight...

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:04
JTF @the_turning_point>(@the_turning_point) ID#57232:
Jin: If you are patient, you will be able to sell your gold again. You are very fortunate in that your trade may be just what you and your family need to survive. We are learning from you, because what is happening to you might well happen to us next. As I recall, that 1929 Kondratiev wave bit eventually enveloped the whole world, not just part of it. We are all in this together, and hopefullly with our collective knowledge there will be something left to start over -- that's what cycles are anyway. Things will get better again eventually.

Date: Thu Oct 23 1997 00:01
JIN MORE NEWS!>(MORE NEWS!) ID#206358:
JTF,
MID DAY REPORT: http://www.abn.com.sg/headlines/index.cfm#568
TAKE CARE!

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